140 - From The Sands of Rome: Gladiator II Review & Discussion! - The Project Infinite Podcast

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's the Infinite.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
Podcast Go tell your friends, it's the Infinite
Podcast my journey never ends.

Speaker 1 (00:07):
It's the Infinite.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
Podcast with Rob and Kork the Cube.
Hello everybody and welcomeback to another episode of the
Project Infinite Podcast, thepodcast covering the infinite
and ever-expanding multiverse offandom, from movies, comics, tv
shows, video games.
We've got you covered.
I'm Rob.
I'm here, as always with Court,took a little holiday break.

(00:32):
Yeah, we did.
Happy Thanksgiving everybodyHappy.
Thanksgiving everybody.
But we're back now and we'regoing to talk about Gladiator
Yep Ha-ha.
This was probably one of ourmore anticipated movies of the
year, 100 from when it was firstannounced.
Um, it's kind of cool, like youknow where, we've done so much

(00:53):
of this now that, like we'rewe're like chronicling like our
journeys for these, for likecertain movies, from when
they're concepted and whenthey're announced, right so like
when we actually get to seethem yeah, um, the best version
of that was oppenheimer, in myopinion, where we had a full
realization from top to bottom,and we're going to talk about
some more stuff like that in alittle bit too so, um, but this

(01:14):
is one of those movies too.
We're like, I remember, likewhen, you know we talked about,
like when it first startedhappening, and then you know,
obviously the big news is like,when denzel got added to it, we
were like what is this?
Like what is happening littledid we know that denzel was
gonna embark on his blockbustermovie, arc sure, which it seems
like he's he's going into withthis.

(01:35):
And then obviously the the ideathat he could potentially be in
black panther 3 like he's, he's, he's checking.
It feels like he's checking offlike a like bucket list items.

Speaker 1 (01:44):
It's funny because, you know, just to touch on that
real quick and his announcementthat his retirement is now
imminent, and now there's aclock that's now been put and
placed upon the world,unfortunately, you're talking
about the retirement of one of,if not the greatest actor that's
ever lived.
So for somebody like him to youknow we already talked about it
a little bit last week the ideathat ryan coogler was able to,

(02:05):
you know, allure him and, youknow, excite him for a role for
a marvel movie I mean, you canjust toss the marvel part of
that aside, I just think hewants to work with ryan coogler
and I think that's a bit of youknow, another actor that similar
in age that was going up withhim was angela bassett as well
too.
So somebody else that was, youknow that probably told him like
hey, no, this, this guy isincredible, and I mean the most

(02:26):
poetic thing I think Denzel isdoing is he's doing a lot of.
He's doing a lot of classicmovies and he's doing a lot of
Shakespearean things, becausethat's where he started.
He started Shakespeare was thething he started on, and to end
on that same thing, it's justlike poetry, it rhymes.

Speaker 2 (02:41):
Yeah, so we'll talk about him and gladiator because
I think he's absolutelysensational.
Oh yeah, that's one of his andit's saying something that that
is one of his betterperformances he is he has put up
in his career yeah, um, butbefore we that we have a little
bit of news, not not a crazyamount, but we do have some,
including obviously morechristopher nolan casting so I

(03:01):
love that.
This is his.
His gimmick now he's got us,he's truthfully got us.
This is his gimmick now withhis films is that, like every
week someone's added to the castand in the last two weeks since
we've been out, uh, we've addedtwo more kind of a-list actors,
so we've added charlie's theirown and robert pattinson
obviously a, a christopher nolankind of mainstay, I guess.

(03:22):
So, yeah, I you know.
Obviously this is shaping up tobe something.

Speaker 1 (03:28):
Yeah, I mean it's going to be outstanding.
I mean, you're looking at TomHolland, zendaya Lupita Nyong'o,
anne Hathaway, robert Pattinson, charlize Theron.
I mean directors would bechopping out the bits to get two
of those actors, one of thoseactors, and he's got six of them
, and now he's got six of them,and now he's going to look to

(03:49):
add more on top of that as welltoo.
So, um, and matt damon, um,excuse me for forgetting one of
the main leads of this movie,but how I think this is going to
play out, if it, if this isthis action type of, you know,
this rescue helicopter movie, Iguess is the best way to explain
it.
I mean, you know, you can putplayers in a movie like that as
well too, because I I wonder ifit's, because I believe they
said it's from a terroristattack as well too.
So I wonder how far he's goingto go into dipping into some of
those thoughts and ideas.
I think it's going to be.

(04:10):
I mean, nonetheless, I don'tthink I I have no choice but to
think that might be the bestmovie of 2026, correct?
Yeah, this movie's coming out.
Um, I have no choice but tobelieve this could be the
potentially the best movie of2026 and again, I'm super happy
that tom holland is getting tolead this movie too.
I mean with with matt damon, Imean one of your most classic
actors that you'll find.
But then it's just the roundingout of the cast.

(04:31):
He does that so incredibly well, rounds out a cast, and you
know I love it that.
He's kind of getting to thatpoint where it's like or he's, I
mean, oppenheimer solidified itthat he's at that point where
everybody is a list when they goto work with him, like
everybody on that main cast willbe a list and they will stay a
list.
So, um, the charlize theron oneis the one I mean from this

(04:51):
channel.
Everybody knows how much I loverobert pattinson, but that
charlize theron one, that's theone I'm actually excited to see.
I'm I'm really excited to seewhat he does with lupita and
hathaway and and charlize I wantto see of.
I just want to get a concept ofthis movie.
This reminds me of the Tenetthinking.
Remember when the first Tenettrailer came out and everybody's
like what?
The what is this?

(05:12):
I do think this one's going tobe a little bit more face front,
but I think he's going to flexhis action muscles for this one.

Speaker 2 (05:17):
Yeah, which you know it's been.
I'm trying to think I guessDunk trying to think like his
last, like I guess, like youknow, dunkirk was probably maybe
like the last thing that he'sdone.
That had like not an actionfocus, but you know kind of he
doesn't.
You know it goes back and forthlike it waffles back and forth.
You know what I mean.
We kind of talked about it.

Speaker 1 (05:36):
It's like either he gets his narrative to do and
then he gets to do like afranchisee thing and then he
kind of switches back.
So now he this one seemsbecause it's either he gets a
historical thing or like afranchise thing.
So now he's swapped back.
And I remember after tenantcame out in 2020, I and then
oppenheimer got announced I waslike he's gonna go back to do
something that's like originalinception from his mind.

(05:58):
I believe so.
Um, I do hope that's the case.
I hope this is a christophernolan.
I still a piece of me stillwants it to be tenant to, but I
know that's not going to happen.
But whatever idea that it is Iknow IMAX is.
He's working with IMAX they'regetting that brand new
technology ready to use.
I mean, just as somebody thatloves film, I can't wait.
I don't know what this is goingto be but I anticipate it's

(06:26):
going to absolutely incredible.

Speaker 2 (06:27):
Yeah, yeah, exactly 100.
Um, we gotta, we gotta talk alittle bit about comics news.
Yeah, we do.
Um.
So dc um launched the absoluteuniverse um early.
You know early, not even thatlong ago, like two months ago.
Right october is when theabsolute universe launched.
Um, it's a new continuitywritten in the dc universe,
basically surrounding batman,superman and wonder woman.
So they're basically um goingback to their, their, their

(06:50):
roots, their core.
Three members of the justiceleague with absolute flash,
absolute green lantern coming umearly next year.

Speaker 1 (06:57):
Um, and it's basically completely revamped um
stories around these charactersso I know the the thought
process is this it isessentially you take wonder
woman, batman, superman andwhatever other characters
because I'm assuming they'regoing to keep adding characters
into this absolute line and youchange one core thing about them

(07:19):
.
Yep, so superman's big changeis that instead of Krypton you
know, blowing up RIP, he grew upon Krypton, but he still has
the same values.
So I mean he was taught, I meanKrypton, this advanced society
that he got to grow up on.
This time that's a cool one.
Batman is just a tank.
He's seven feet tall.
He's seven feet tall.

(07:42):
The core difference for him isthat he, he's not rich.
He's not rich, he's just everyman.
Uh, his father is a teacher.
His father still gets killed,but his father is a teacher and
he dies right in front of himagain.
So he's essentially this, notrich.
You know he had to makeeverything that he did, but he
absolutely owns gotham, and Ilove the alfred piece in there

(08:04):
as well too.
That al Alfred piece is reallycool.
Wonder Woman might be thecoolest one is that she was
raised in hell right Instead ofThemyscira.
yeah, Instead of Themyscira,wonder Woman was raised in hell
and she is an absolute justbeast.
I love it.

Speaker 2 (08:17):
Yeah, yeah, and I mean the crazy thing about this
is the absolute Batman run isselling extremely well crazy
thing about this is the absolutebatman run is selling extremely
well.
Yeah, it is, um, which is notsomething that anyone really
talks about in comics.
Is is obviously like the heydayof comics is kind of past as
far as sales.
And you know, um, you'd belucky if any comic sells more
than you know a couple tens ofthousands of comics nowadays,

(08:40):
but this absolute batman run isselling 400 000 units.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
Uh, that's since its launch, which is kind of crazy
and I think I think whathappened too is that people were
, I know the big controversywhen they was announced was the
look and the bat logo, becausepeople are nerds, including us.
We're everybody's like what isthis batman logo and why does he
look like that?
And then they read the comment.
They were like wait a minute isIs he cool.

Speaker 2 (09:05):
He's cool, he is pretty cool.
Yeah, I think it's awesome thata new kind of universe is
getting kind of traction.
I think that's cool.
It makes me feel like peoplehave kind of like a hunger for
new stories instead ofretreading, and I think that's a

(09:26):
hopefully, that's a goodprecedent to set, right, so that
you know, not just for comics,but like movies, tv, like it
makes people, you know,hopefully it'll make executives
kind of realize that like, hey,maybe people don't just want,
you know, retreads of old things.
Maybe they do want, maybe theywant familiar characters, but
they want new things.

(09:47):
Right, you know what I mean,right, um, and I think that's, I
think that's cool.
Um, so I'm, I'm, you know, I Ican't say I'm not intrigued Um,
like I, I want to definitelypick it up and see, see what
it's all about too.

Speaker 1 (09:59):
Give me a character and give me one thing you would
change about them for anabsolute line um like a dc
character um oh, I got a goodone, I got one let me think here
um, I might.

Speaker 2 (10:13):
Hmm, I would say I would do robin, but make him be
brought up by the joker insteadof batman.
That's a good one, that'sactually really good.

Speaker 1 (10:23):
That's incredible.
That would be a good piece justto slide right into the
absolute Batman.
It would just be.

Speaker 2 (10:27):
Dick Grayson.
Right, but he got discovered bythe Joker instead of by Batman,
that's awesome.

Speaker 1 (10:34):
That's awesome in so many ways.
I would want a little bit moreof like a it's not a one-shotty
thing, but I want a little bitof an idea where it's dark side,
but he is the all.
He's the high father instead,and dark side's a good guy.
Instead of being this pinnacleof evil, he is the.
He's the pinnacle of hope forthe universe, so everybody kind
of looks to him.
Instead of being this, you know, absolutely maniacal evil being

(10:57):
yeah, that's cool.

Speaker 2 (10:59):
That'd be cool, I think.
Yeah, that to do like thecosmic stuff would be cool too.

Speaker 1 (11:03):
Yeah, that new, that new God-y era of things, but
still have Darkseid.
Just be an absolute good guy.
He's just a good guy that justwants to help everybody and
restore the universe.
But that Joker, that Robinbeing one of the Jokers, would
be insane.

Speaker 2 (11:19):
Yeah, because the Joker never really had a
sidekick before Besides, I meanHarley Quinn's kind of a
sidekick, right.
Never really had like asidekick before besides, like I
mean harley quinn's kind of asidekick, right.
Um, I'm just looking at the uh,the premises of the flash and
green lantern the flash.
I'm intrigued for yeah, yeah,the flash one's cool, like
there's no speed force, like hejust wally west, just has his
powers okay oh, and it's wallywest yeah, okay, yep, absolute

(11:40):
flash is wally west, um, sothat's that.
One absolute green lantern is afocus on Hal Jordan, jon Stewart
, guy Gardner and Joe Mullion.
After a large green lanternfalls from the sky and crushes a
town, causing widespreadparanoia.
Interesting, what are they?
Cops, I guess?
Yeah, interesting.

(12:01):
And then the Martian Manhunterone is focusing a focusing on
fbi agent john jones as his bodyis taken over by an alien
consciousness referred to as amartian, causing him to slowly
go insane.
Interesting, that's aninteresting one.
So that's gonna be more of apsychological take on martian
manhunter.
That's kind of cool, yeah, soyeah, I mean cool stuff.

(12:21):
Um, I definitely like that idea.
Um, it's kind of similar tolike the Marvel, like what-if
stuff, but in a more serializedway.
Right Because the Marvel,what-if stuff is very like
one-shotty, one-shotty, yep andit doesn't really mean anything
Right?
Whereas like this is going tobe like an actual, like universe
.

Speaker 1 (12:36):
Well, what I also know is happening in the normal
DC, like the DC mainline stuff,is that they're doing I know
they're doing some lifting withSuperman right now and then
there's a new Justice Leaguetitle like the Justice League
kind of reset, revamped of likeall the heroes on earth, you
know, rebranded into the JusticeLeague.
So any hero that's on earthessentially turns into,
essentially turns in likethey're part of the Justice

(12:58):
League automatically.
So I think they there's goingto be a situation where they're
going to all cross paths, likethe absolute universe and the
main universe are going to cross, a situation where they're
going to all cross paths Likethe absolute universe and the
main universe are going to cross.
Maybe they're going to have totake them on.
That would be interesting.

Speaker 2 (13:10):
Batman fights bigger Batman.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (13:11):
Batman fights bigger Batman.
I still think the absoluteSuperman would take on the main
Earth Superman pretty well too.

Speaker 2 (13:20):
Yeah, I'm keen on it for sure.
The Game Awards.
So the Game Awards is coming upnext week, next Thursday, the
Game Awards is coming out andthe Game of the Year the Game of
the Year, the main thing Iwanted to hit, obviously, you
know the nominees are what theyare across all categories.
It was a really really, reallystrong year for gaming I think

(13:42):
across the board 2024.
Strong year, um, for gaming, Ithink across the board um 2024.
But, um, the main thing I reallyreally wanted to hit on with
this was the game of the yearnominees.
Um, yeah, because it sparkedsome controversy and, I think,
uh, justified controversy.
So, the game of the yearnominees um astrobot, no
surprise, um, maybe the greatestgame ever.
It's, it's really good.
Man, especially um.

(14:02):
I don't know if you've how, ifyou fired up your playstation
and since yesterday, but they,they, uh, they gave an update to
the ui, that um, it fires uplike the old playstation one um,
and it gives you like a little30th anniversary graphic and
then you can set your ui to likeplaystation 1 ui, playstation 2
ui, ps3 ui, ps4 ui which oneare you picking?

Speaker 1 (14:24):
which one do you have the most nostalgia?
Can I guess what it is?

Speaker 2 (14:26):
yeah, it's the ps2 yeah, yeah, ps2, it's one of the
, and actually just uh.
Ps2 just made the news by by uhbecoming the biggest selling
console of all time, becausepeople are still still buying
them.
So it's over 160 million units,I think that's insane, so it's
overtaking the switch as thehighest uh selling console all
time insane but yeah, astrobotis just this love letter to

(14:47):
playstation.
Um, it's a super fun platformer.
Um, I really enjoyed it yeah umblack myth, wukong um nominated
for game of the year.

Speaker 1 (14:55):
remember we were talking about this and I know
you had some skepticism thatthis game and I had a feeling
just watching some of thegameplay I said this game is
built to be game of the year ina year where there's no absolute
monster, because remember lastyear, that last year was like
everybody on that list had adeserving piece to get that game
of the year.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
Yeah, I think it's cool that Wukong got nominated.
I don't think it's going to win,but I do think there is a game
award for player's choice gameof the year, and I mean anyone
who follows the NBA and isfamiliar with the NBA all-star
voting.
When Jeremy Lin was around,when Yao Ming was around, they

(15:33):
would just run away with fanvoting because the outpouring of
support for Chinese you know,any type of Chinese export,
whether it's a game, whether'sit's an athlete is is insane.
Um, black with wukong cleanedup at the golden joysticks,
which is, um, all fan drivenvoting, right, um, so I expect
black myth will win that.
I don't think it's gonna wingame of the year.

(15:54):
It could win action game of theyear, sure?
Um, I think the action in thatgame is really tight, yeah, um,
so I think that's cool.
Um, bellatro got nominated forgame of the year.
I know this raised a lot ofeyebrows.
I wasn't familiar with bellatro.
It's apparently a uh for peoplewho are familiar with the
roguelike genre.
It's a roguelike poker game.
So you, that's interesting,it's super interesting.
You get, you know, you gethands and you, you know, as you

(16:17):
progress through the game, youget more like perks and upgrades
, and it's a roguelite, sothere's like boss, boss battles
um a guy named jim with a visoron and then when you lose, like
you go back to the beginning butyou keep some of your like,
your perks and stuff.
I I it's.
The fact that it got nominatedfor game of the year is kind of
crazy, but, like everyone I'vetalked to that's played, it is
like no, like it actually isreally really good.

(16:37):
Um, metaphor, rephantazio,which is a game that I just
started a couple days ago.
It is a classic high fantasyturn-based JRPG made by the same
developers that have made thePersona series.
I'm really enjoying it.
So far it's very well voiceacted, the animation is really
great.
It's a classic turn-based RPG.

(16:58):
Final Fantasy VII, rebirth nosurprise, the juggernaut of
pretty much of the Game Awardsthis year got nominated for the
most awards, seven ClassicallyIncluding Game of the Year, rpg
of the Year, performance of theYear.
Brianna White, who voicesAerith, got nominated for that,

(17:20):
I know.
Cody Christensen won the GoldenJoystick for Performance of the
Year and Brianna won theSupporting Performance of the
Year, won the Golden Joystickfor Performance of the Year and
Brianna won the SupportingPerformance of the Year at the
Golden Joysticks.
So Rebirth obviously is kind oflike the frontrunner here,
until you get to the sixthnominee, which is Elden Ring
Shadow of the Erd Tree, the DLCexpansion for Elden Ring, the

(17:41):
game that came out in 2022.
And this is the one that cameout in 2022.
Um, and this is the one that hasgarnered the most controversy
in the sense that in anexpansion um DLC has been
nominated for game of the year,um, I think it sets a bad
precedent.

Speaker 1 (17:58):
Yeah, this landscape is.
It's interesting, it's, it's.
I don't want to say it's, it's.
You know it's interesting, it's, it's.
I don't want to say it's, it's.
You know it's thought provoking, like the idea that a, an
expansion, would get any sort ofnomination for anything, Be
that there's a poker game that'sa rogue Like that was not.
That was nominated for game ofthe year, I mean, and we knew it

(18:19):
and you know it's funny andwe're.
You know what's funny and we'lltalk about this in January.
Where the time rolls around,movies this year are kind of in
the same boat.
There's been a lot ofincredible movies that came out
this year.
I mean a bunch.
I don't care what anybody says,I'll argue this to the end of
the day.
Every year there are so manyincredible movies that come out
Every single year.
I don't care If you don't thinkso, you're not watching the

(18:40):
right movies.
You the right movies, you justaren't.
There are so many movies thatare coming out.
This year is going to besimilar for the oscars, where
there's going to be a lot oftoss-up and there's going to be
a lot of head scratchers.
There's going to be a lot ofnominations that people don't
think make a lot of sense andit's funny that gaming it.
But 2023 for the movies and2023 for gaming were two
pinnacle years in the modern agefor gaming and movies, so it's

(19:01):
very similar in that aspect yeah, I just think the alderman
thing is wild.

Speaker 2 (19:05):
Yeah, um, I likened it to you.
Know, you can talk about like amovie or a t or, or like a or
an album, right, um, artistreleases an album in like 2020
that wins album of the year, andthen, like 2022, they come out
with like the same album, likedeluxe edition, right, that has
like bonus tracks, and then thatwould be like if that artist,

(19:25):
if that album, got nominated foralbum of the year again.
That's kind of what's going onwith shadow of the earth tree,
right, um, being nominated forgame of the year.
It just it's.
It just sets a weird precedentbecause, like now, it feels like
these companies are going toget like this, this motivation
to be like, no, we can just kindof release and Elden Ring is an
is a complete game, like, don'tget me wrong, like shadow of

(19:47):
the earth tree is is anexpansion, like it's essentially
like a new map, new things todo, but it's still out of the
ring at the end of the day.
You know what I mean.
Like that's, that's kind of thewild thing about it.
And I think it's also nominatedfor RPG of the Year, which is
fine, it's an expansion, but forit to be nominated for Game of

(20:07):
the Year is just a weird thing,because it's not.
You can't play Shadow of theEarth Tree without Elden Ring.
You know what I mean?
It doesn't stand on its own,and I think that's.
It's just a weird thing, andI'd be very interested to see
what happens.

Speaker 1 (20:22):
Do they just give it to astrobot and call it a year
and just try to regroup for 2025?

Speaker 2 (20:27):
I mean it's possible.
I just the astrobot thing isinteresting because it's it.
It feels like it's a almostlike a playstation kind of like.
You know, not propaganda, butlike it's a playstation inspired
thing.
So I just I don't know if theywould give game of the year to
something that's so closely tiedto one company.
Sure, um, even though, likefinal fantasy, 7 rebirth

(20:49):
obviously only launched onplaystation 5, but it's not
really like associated with sonyin that way.
Yeah, that like astrobot islike.

Speaker 1 (20:56):
Yeah, it's a direct, it's a sony thing.
Like when you buy your ps5, youget astro's playroom on the
system remember when, when yougot that notification and you
were like skip, let me play thegames that I want.
Nope, I played it.
I did play Astro's Playroom andI really liked it Because I you
know, it was just Well now,because I didn't know what it
was, I was like get this out ofmy face.
This is a brand new place.

Speaker 2 (21:21):
And now I'm just keen to see what happens next week,
because I think it's going tosay a lot about how people feel
about games going forward.
And before we talk aboutGladiator, I just want to talk
about Superman and Lois reallyquick.
We'll probably talk about theshow in full next week, I would
imagine, yep, because we onlyreally talked about the first

(21:43):
season on the podcast.
So we'll talk about the finalseason.
We'll talk about, you know,we'll talk about the show and,
and you know, tyler hecklund'skind of place in the pantheon of
supermen, yeah, um.
And then I mean, maybe we will.
You know, I'm forecasting alittle bit.
Maybe a week after we'll justdo like an Arrowverse, cwverse

(22:07):
episode.

Speaker 1 (22:08):
I'd be down for that.

Speaker 2 (22:10):
This is it Superman and Lois officially ends the
network TV DC TV presence.
That started, funny enough,with Smallville what year was
that?

Speaker 1 (22:24):
2001 or 2003?
I think it was 2001, if I'm notmistaken it started.

Speaker 2 (22:28):
I think you're right, yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:29):
Because it lasted until 2010,.
Maybe 2011.
2001, yep, and then it ended in2010,.
2011?
Yeah.
And then Arrow started in 2011,.

Speaker 2 (22:42):
And then the rest is history, yeah started in 2011
and then the rest is history.
Yeah, um, I mean Superman andLois.
Just this from the firstepisode, just this just surprise
that so much care and attentionand just incredible writing
performances.

Speaker 1 (23:02):
You know filming cinematography that you don't
get no on network tv and I mean,on top of that too, I think
there was a level of to yourpoint, there's a level of care
that goes into it.
I think there was also like anunspoken agreement and
understanding understanding thatyou know superman deserves that
and I think the creator saidwe're not gonna take from what

(23:22):
the cw does, because we love theCW, let's not get that twisted.
But we know, I have to all sayis we know, we know we
understand Superman and Lois didnot do that.
They said from.
I think they knew from thestart like hey, we want to take
this vehemently seriously fromtop to bottom, but it's the same
.
It's funny.
I was just having thisconversation.
I was talking about theholdovers from last year and it

(23:44):
was this ideology that in movies, movies aren't tender anymore.
They're not tender.
Superman and Lois is a tendershow.
That show has so many greatlessons in it it feels classic
for some odd reason.
There's no better way for me toexplain it.
There's this classic overlay toit.
It's just a really good familydrama and it has a core.

(24:06):
When a show has a core and youcan play on that core, you can
challenge that core, you canquestion that core and then you
can reaffirm that core.
That's how you do that.
That's a really good piece tokind of have be your backbone,
and they did it so incrediblywell.

Speaker 2 (24:19):
Yeah, and just a show that I think just understands
superman at the end of the day,yep to the point where comic
writers were coming out of thewoodwork and saying, no, this
they get it like.
These are some of the bestsuperman stories that I've, you
know, we've seen in live actionyeah, and, just to you know,
being able to seamlessly pickand choose, you know, either
famous superman stories orfamous superman characters.

(24:42):
Um, we've talked endlesslyabout the john henry irons
reveal, um, in the first season,right, when you're like wait,
they're just doing steel, likeright.
Um, the introduction of bizarroin season two um, yeah, and and
how that you know, I knowyou're kind of working your way
through it, um, so I don't wantto talk too much about the

(25:02):
bizarro stuff because it itbleeds into later seasons.
Um, as far as how they morphthat into a different story,
which was super cool, down toall the Lex Luthor stuff in the
final season, with MichaelKudlitz who put up just an
insane amount of transformationthroughout the end of season

(25:24):
three into all of season four.
Um, and I know like people wereconcerned about, you know, the
show, the final season, gettingreduced number of episodes, um,
reduced number of, you know,reduced budget, right, um, you
know kind of made people alittle nervous about, like, are
they just gonna mail this one in?
Um, and no, you know, I thinkthis final season was probably

(25:46):
the most intimate of the fourseasons and I think kind of,
maybe in a weird way, like thereduced budget helped that sure
they were kind of like went back, you know, not went back to
their roots, but they reallyhoned in on the the character
aspect of the show and kind ofleft.
You know there's plenty ofsupermanning to be had in the
final season but I feel likethey really brought it back to

(26:06):
the intimacy of, like the familyand the performances and the
characters and I think thatreally boosted it.
I mean, I've seen more peopletalk about superman lois in this
final season than I have in thelast you know handful of years.

Speaker 1 (26:20):
Yeah, I've seen people like you know, youtubers,
like people with differentaccounts.
They'll go on and they'll belike just started this cw show.
Obviously we know that this isgoing to go, and then they watch
.

Speaker 2 (26:29):
They're like wait a minute.

Speaker 1 (26:30):
Like this is actually , and at the end of the day,
regardless of budget regard, ifyou know how to storytell well,
and you know how to get me tocare, or get us to care, about
character as well too, that'sthat's.
It's not overtly complicated.

Speaker 2 (26:45):
Yeah, I, and I think you know, now this final season
is over, um, when we look backon it, I think and we'll talk
about this next week obviouslyTyler Hoechlin's kind of place
in the pantheon of of Supermanand and not just Superman but
comic book adaptations, I thinkI think he's, I think he's
worked his way in there, um, interms of, like that, that

(27:08):
rarefied air of of comic bookcastings, I think I think he's
just done an outstanding job.
Yeah, um, so we'll talk, we'lltalk about superman and lois
next week, because, boy, there'sa lot to talk about.
Um, but now we got to talkabout gladiator out, um, but now

(27:30):
we got to talk about gladiator.

Speaker 1 (27:31):
Ha ha denzel.
They said he's like I'm notdoing an accent.
Yeah, I'm from.

Speaker 2 (27:35):
I'm from the bronx, rome I saw someone say that this
is a prequel to training day itbasically is that's his.

Speaker 1 (27:43):
actually he did the same thing.
You gonna do this to me.
Lucius, all y'all Romansplaying basketball, y'all
falling into the Coliseum.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
So Gladiator 2, obviously the sequel to the 2000
Best Picture nominee, Gladiatorthat starred Russell, russell
Crowe, directed by Ridley Scott.
One of the greatest actionmovies of all time, one of the
greatest historical dramas ofall time.

Speaker 1 (28:15):
One of the greatest lead performances of all time,
yes, so how do you follow thatup?
You do Gladiator again.
You do Gladiator 2, butDenzel's in this one.
This time I can just rip off myinitial thoughts because I know
, like reception wise, thismovie, like I remember, the
initial punch was like this isone of the best movies of the

(28:35):
year.
And then people started rollingin.
They were like yeah, we don'tknow.
We don't know if that's true.
We don't think that's true.
That was very weird.
Like the I I remember theinitial punch was like no, this
movie is one of the best moviesof this year.

Speaker 2 (28:48):
Yeah, and then it's yeah, the reception's been mixed
to good I think, yeah, mixed togood is the best way to put it.
Yep, it's got a 71% amongcritics on Rotten Tomatoes, 83%
among audiences, which is funny,because if you look at the
Gladiator one rotten tomatostore score, it's similar.

Speaker 1 (29:05):
I think the audience score is higher, but the but the
critic score is very similar.
I'm pretty sure it's yeah, um,yeah, if I'm not mistaken, the
first one is similar criticscore.
So you can take that how thatis.
And I mean that's a film thatwent on to win russell crowe
that oscar from 2000.

Speaker 2 (29:21):
Yeah, so gladiator original recipe gladiator has an
80 percent right among critics,so it's lower it's higher it's
higher oh sorry on uh critics oh, critics okay, yeah critics is
an 80 percent, for gladiator one71 percent oh, 71 okay gotcha,
which is like I said.

Speaker 1 (29:37):
It's like mixed to good um I feel like the only
argument I'll always make forthat is interstellar is at a 71
on rotten tomato, so I will usethat until I'm blue in the face.

Speaker 2 (29:45):
Yeah, I think, I think critically, I think what a
lot of people kind of have aproblem with not have a problem
with, but like the kind of whatknocks it a little bit, is like
it's just Gladiator again, sureit's just Gladiator again.

Speaker 1 (30:00):
There's monkeys in this one, there's monkeys in
this one.
There in this one, there'smonkeys in this one.
The editing is a littleinteresting and guys Ridley
Scott just turned 87 yesterdayCut him a bit of a break and he
wants to make a third one.
He just said a couple days agothat a third one is already in
the works, so give him a littlebreak.

Speaker 2 (30:18):
And I mean I think what made the first I mean, like
you said, what makes the firstone elevated to kind of like
that pantheon status in terms ofmovies, is the Russell Crowe
performance, and Paul Mescal isgood in this movie, but he
doesn't get there as far as theRussell Crowe stuff.

Speaker 1 (30:35):
So I'll think about it this way Nobody on planet
Earth could get to that RussellCrowe part for what he was
pulling off in that movie.
And that's how I want to startwith, because I am going to now
I'm going to get into my opinion.
I think that Paul Mescalperformance was nothing short of
incredible.
I know a lot of people andagain, you know, I think people
are were iffy on it.

(30:55):
It's because he's not RussellCrowe.
I think that's the immediateknee jerk reaction and it's
subconscious, subconscious, likewe talk about the way we think.
We're basically filmpsychologists at that point for
like thinking, how, like, whyaudiences think the way that
they think, and like masses andlike nostalgia bait, all those
things.
Like he's just not russellcrowe, so, and he gets he gets.

Speaker 2 (31:16):
russell crowe didn't have denzel in his movie right,
casting this right enormousacting shadow over him where you
know, you know, obviously, um,joaquin Phoenix is incredible in
the first Gladiators, butthey're more like 1A, 1b.
They bounce off of each otherwhereas, like Mezcal to his, you
know, in his defense, he getsdwarfed by Denzel whenever

(31:41):
they're kind of together andit's not even Paul's fault.

Speaker 1 (31:44):
No, and I want to get into this too.
I thought his performance wasnothing less than incredible, in
my opinion.
I thought that was he was good.
Yeah, I thought he was great.
I mean, he had this.
The one thing that I saidwalking out of the theater is
that he had this idea in hishead is I'm not Russell Crowe as
the gladiator, I'm Paul Mescalcrow as the gladiator.
I'm paul mescal as thegladiator.
That was the number one thingthat I think he made the correct

(32:05):
choice on is like I do not needto be um, we'll save the, we'll
save spoilers for a moment, butI do not.
I do not need to be thegladiator.
Like I don't, I need to be mygladiator.
I do not need to be hisgladiator.
He's a little bit more.
He's a little bit morecharismatic than he is.
He's a little bit more likehe's a little he's softer.
Yeah, he's a little bit of likea softer, but like there's like

(32:27):
a trust.
That it's so.
I thought about this, becausethey're both great leaders
essentially is what they developinto.
Or crussell crowe needs torebrand his leadership versus,
you know, paul mescal'scharacter, which will get into
his name in a second.
Yeah, um, he needs to kind offind that in himself.
Um, um, he had it in theopening scene.
He was, he was a, he was aleader, but he was a different

(32:48):
type of leader.
So they both needed to kind ofrebrand.
And again, to your point, thisis just gladiator again, but his
top gun one, not top gun twoagain, like all these movies are
, they're the same, um, so Ijust thought his performance was
great.

(33:09):
I think, like I I said, he's alittle bit more, he's a little
bit softer, but there's like atrust that comes with it.
In my opinion, like he issomebody that, like you,
immediately want to root forbecause, you know, tragedy
befalls him as well too.
Um, again, which is just likegladiator one.
But yeah, there's just, there'ssomething that's like endearing
about his gladiator, about likethe way that he rises, um,
physically he's, I mean he is,he can fight, and if you want to
talk about something that will,you know, ruffle all the

(33:29):
feathers right now.
I have no problem saying this.
I think the hand-to-hand combatin this movie doesn't even
isn't even close to, or I meanthe other way around.
I don't even think thehand-to-hand combat.
It is nothing short ofincredible.
The first one is rugged onpurpose and if.
But this one, like it, kind ofbalances both like the modern
action you're john wicks, you'rebut it still has that rugged

(33:50):
nature to how fighting shouldhave been done.
Like it is bloody, it's likeit's gruesome, yeah, it's tough,
but it still has a.

Speaker 2 (33:56):
It has a the slightest fine finish to it,
which I think is nice I likeit's fun, like I like the like
the kind of really like intimatefight sequences, and there's a
couple of them the last one I'mnot as sure, sure, um, because
you have to ask.

Speaker 1 (34:13):
The only thing I didn't love about that last one
is you, I, you, you had in yourhead you probably had to ask
some questions about, about whatwe'll get to in a second.
You're getting like in yourhead, you're like paul, the
whole movie was him, like I mean, he was anybody and everybody.
And now he's struggling alittle bit.
I said wait a minute.
Yeah, for an older man.

Speaker 2 (34:31):
There's two really good ones, oh there's.
And there's two really intimate, really good ones.
There's one that takes place ata party.
That one was so good, that's agood one, I really love that one
.
And then there's one later oninvolving Paul Mescal and Pedro
Pascal.
Oh yeah, and we're going totalk about Pedro Pascal too,
because I think there's aversion of this movie where he's

(34:53):
the main character, sure, and Ithink that movie is also really
really good.
So, yeah, I mean, I think.
All in all, I think this ifwe're going to talk about where
this ranks in terms of, like,legacy sequels, I think it's not
Top Gun Maverick, no, it's kindof.

Speaker 1 (35:13):
It's probably somewhere in around, probably
above, like Force Awakens, suresure I can probably, you know
spectrum put it in between thosetwo, like if there's a middle
point in between those two.
I think that's where that fitsLike this movie in my opinion it
misses the best picture by justlike a smidge.

(35:33):
And like.
This is where like enjoymentversus like reviewing comes into
play, because, like I'm not, Istill have foresight enough to
understand that this movie's notperfect, but I personally
really enjoyed this movie.

Speaker 2 (35:47):
Yeah, I really, I really enjoyed this movie.
Yeah, I really liked it a lot.
Um, and it was just like a, youknow, well-performed yes.
There's just that just somethings that, like I, you know,
the CGI gets a little wonky,especially when you get to that
first bit with the, with thebaboons, yeah, and I'm like, do
we need the baboon?

Speaker 1 (36:05):
bit right, because the I mean what you could have
done is you could have putpeople against them too.
You could have actual.

Speaker 2 (36:11):
I think we needed more I think we needed more of
that.
I think we need more human,human on human, human on human
stuff, right, um, like cut themonkeys out of it, cut the
sharks out of it, yeah, and Imean just court doing the
court's film corner.

Speaker 1 (36:24):
This movie is chopped a bit.
It is definitely I know I thinkthey talked about Ridley was
like he just said throw as manycameras up as you can and just
pick and choose which going intoan edit.
That's a tough thing to add.
And especially, what you'redoing essentially, too, is
you're chopping performances ontop of that too.
So obviously Denzel cannavigate through that.

(36:47):
Paul Mescal as the maincharacter of this movie because
I mean, you're talking aboutsomebody that's already been
nominated for an oscar beforehe's 30 years old, like he
already has an oscar nominationunder his belt, like that, that
wasn't somebody that was justplucked off the street, that
this that's an up-and-comer.
Like yes, he's, like he's stillgetting his footing, but I mean
, imagine getting your footingand you have an oscar nomination
under you, like that's prettydang good.
And the things that even denzelsaid about him like no it

(37:08):
bridley said about him like no,this guy is, this guy is great.
Like I still really like thatperformance.
It's just again, it's like thisisn't your father's gladiator
is the best way I can say that.
Like this is a little bit of adifferent type of type of
understanding of it too yeah,and I mean I guess we'll talk
about the ending in a second.

Speaker 2 (37:25):
Like the ending doesn't do that character any
favors when he does the, so whenhe has his like suit up
sequence, sure, and I'm likeokay, like it's a little
derivative.

Speaker 1 (37:37):
Right, I was bought more into the speech he gave
because I think, well, yeah, thespeech he gave itself was great
.
The suit up was very like again.
Like yeah, this is the.
This is the risk you run withlegacy sequels.
This is the risk you run like,how do you, how do you navigate?
Like and I talked to you aboutit when we were leaving the
theater like I hate when legacysequels try to play too coy and

(37:57):
they try to do it to the pointwhere it's like I'm not going to
give you anything.
Like no, we know, this is thesequel.
Like it's okay, you can give usstuff, but like I think it went
from it playing itself very coyto giving us everything very
abruptly, like everything fromgladiator one very abruptly yeah
, I think they we'll talk aboutit um any other performances you

(38:17):
?
kind of want to highlight.
I mean other than pedro pascal,I mean um, connie nielsen is
still, is still great that shewas good, yeah, that that's
still Connie Nielsen at the endof the day as well too.
But yeah, that Pedro Pascalperformance, and I mean that's
just again.
You put together an all-starcast of actors to be in this
film.

Speaker 2 (38:36):
He's one of the best, and I don't think he gets
nearly enough credit for hisphysical acting.
Oh my god, yeah, it reminds me.
Seeing him in this reminded mea lot of the stuff he did in
Game of.

Speaker 1 (38:47):
Thrones.
He has this pomp andcircumstance to himself.
He has this physical mentalityof being like.
I think the best way todescribe it is grace.
There's a grace that he carrieswhenever he walks anywhere.
It's grace and command and,much like Denzel Washington,
it's just in a more tender way.

Speaker 2 (39:05):
I think is the best way to explain pedro pascal yeah
, just and it's retroactivelybothers me that he's like not
doing a lot of the physicalstuff for the mandalorian.
Yeah, because I'm like he'ssuch a good, he's really great
physical actor.

Speaker 1 (39:18):
I think that's more of a protection piece, but
that's again like.
That's like heightened sense,awareness of like real world
connotations that you shouldn'thave when you're watching a
movie.

Speaker 2 (39:27):
Yeah, so he's great.
Let's talk spoilers.
Yeah, let's talk spoilers.

Speaker 1 (39:30):
Denzel gets his hand cut off.
That's the first spoiler youwant to talk about?
No?
No, but he does.
They Star Wars him.
He gets his hand cut off.

Speaker 2 (39:49):
I mean, the big thing is lucius or hano, is maximus's
son, yep, and marcus aurelius'sgrandson.
Yeah, awesome, um, and that'sthe bit, the end bit.
That I was like all right,we're kind of when he, when he
goes full maximus cosplay, Ithink the sword would have been
enough.
I don't think he needed thearmor and the dress and the
sword and the shield I'm not asupset with it as you are.

Speaker 1 (40:05):
I think I'm actually.

Speaker 2 (40:06):
It would have been it it it just feels like like
nobody, like nobody.
It felt like nobody caredbecause like nobody, like nobody
besides.
Okay, because like that's agood point that I'll get into
okay like who is, who is there?
That's a good time to watch himwalk out in that gear.
Yep, that would have been likecared.
You know what?
What this movie?
Both emperors were dead at thatpoint.

Speaker 1 (40:26):
You just lit another spark in my head for something.
I feel like Russell, if youwere going to do this, the aura
of Russell Crowe's gladiatorneeded to be much larger.
It feels like this film.
It doesn't forget.
I think it's on purpose, but Ifeel like it kind of it has him
almost as like just anothergladiator that went through the
arena, instead of, like youshould have played it as he was

(40:47):
the glad, like this was the onethat people almost upended, roam
over.
Is this gladiator a?
That would have helped the?
Because the whole theme of thismovie is the dream.
Is the dream possible, um,marcus aurelius's dream like
he's not just a crackpot old man, like, no, he was.
He was serious and like youknow, looking life past, like

(41:08):
even he knew.
Like this dream was possible.
Like this dream is possible.
So, yeah, um.
So that's an interesting thoughtprocess to have as well too but
again I mean gladiator, I meancomet says that to maximus and
gladiator one, the general whobecame a slave, the slave who
became a gladiator, thegladiator who defied an emperor,
and they just his aura's gone,his aura's gone that's the bit,
and I'm glad you said that,because now thinking about it,

(41:31):
that's a very interesting take,because now when I think about
it, that suit-up scene wouldhave absolutely played if the
aura of his father was like heis the gladiator that defied the
emperor, like this and like we.
And again, it should have beenplayed.
We still don't know who that is.
Like we didn't, we never knewwho that, but they would know
who it is, but nobody else wouldknow who that is.
Maybe you also keep alive.

(41:52):
One of the characters from theoriginal, one of the gladiators
from the original movie, isthere to be like no, you like,
you sound like him.
What?

Speaker 2 (42:00):
was Jaman Honsu doing .
Jaman Honsu couldn't come backfor this movie Did he not die in
the first one.

Speaker 1 (42:05):
He died in the first one, did he?
Yeah, he died in the first one,I can't remember.
Regardless, yeah, the aura ofthe original gladiator, of
Russell Crowe's gladiator, couldhave propelled this movie,
because that's essentially whatyou're banking off of for these
legacy sequels.
It's like you, like you have totake the presence of everything
that happened and try to findan innovative way to play it.

(42:25):
Now that you said that, that'sa great point Of like.
He just felt like especiallythe addition of the new Diamond
Hanzo character for this movieLike he was a gladiator.
He said like no, that gladiatorneeded to be the gladiator.
Like that is the gladiator thatdefied an emperor.
Like that suit-up scene wouldhave meant more that defied an

(42:46):
emperor.
That suit-up scene would havemeant more the reveal.
They should have sprinkled therumbling because then, once you
get to the actual war, the warpiece that's going on, that also
would have bolstered that a bit.

Speaker 2 (42:55):
I think the movie did , the promotion of this movie
did itself a disservice.
I really think the movie couldhave had a big drama piece of is
he Commodus' son or is heMaximus' son?
Sure, but like we knew goinginto it that he was Maximus' son
.

Speaker 1 (43:13):
They could have also done.
It's funny, you talked aboutForce Awakens.
They could have easily done asituation, too, where it was you
know.
They could have done asituation where it was just
another man's son, that's it.

Speaker 2 (43:25):
Oh, like right, just just like I feel like people
would have been mad about that.
Um, yeah, I mean.
And so, all right, we gottatalk about denzel now.
Um, for a little bit, macronusis plot twist.
He's the villain.
Yeah, he's the real villain.
Yeah, we know.
I guess, before we talk aboutDeadzel, we gotta talk about

(43:49):
Fred Hetchinger and Joseph Quinnas the DeCyphilis brothers, I'm
gonna say something.

Speaker 1 (43:55):
You cut Fred Hetchinger how do you say his
last name?
You cut him out of the moviecompletely and you just have it
be Joseph Quinn.
Probably I think you can cuthim out of the movie.
You cut a little bit of movie.
You probably give some of thatback to.
Funny enough.
You give some of that back toPedro Pascal, probably, and you
give it back to the fact that,like cause all right.
So to describe Pedro Pascal'scharacter, his, his whole thing,

(44:16):
it's nobility, like you thinkhe's some monster that's, you
know, like this new age monsterthat's perusing through Rome and
being this war, but he's just agood guy.
And again, it's like the it'sthe Eric Lentzcher thing.
Like I'm just tired, he'staught I'm a soldier, like, but
I'm a good man.
I just am in service of Rome.
But look what Rome, look whatthe Rome I'm in service of.
This isn't the Rome I'm inservice of in my head.

Speaker 2 (44:39):
He's very, he does have a lot of.
It's funny like that generalcaseus has a lot of maximus.
Yeah, he does in him.
Yep, which is reallyinteresting.
Yeah, um, you know, right downto the point where he is
plotting to literally overthrowthe emperor emperors, right.

Speaker 1 (44:56):
So I think, and again I like the, the other guy that
played the other emperor, butjoseph quinn, like I think, and
again this keeps making me feelbetter and better about joseph
quinn as an actor not that Ididn't before, but like joseph
quinn is still great, like he'sstill, he's still really good.
So I think you've spin thismovie.
You cut one of them out, youjust have it be him like this,
like conniving, little like.

(45:17):
But again, you needed both ofthem to show like one of them
had a little bit more sense, theother one, like purposely had
like actual mental health issues, like he was not right in the
head monkey and a monkey.
Yeah, like he made one of themonkeys part of the senate.
All hail dondas, all haildondas.
But yes, denzel, I mean you,you're talking.
This is one of his betterperformance and that's saying
something.

(45:37):
This is one of his betterperformances.
I mean he has I think he has abirthright claim to that best
actor domination and win.
I.
I don't think anybody's goingto take that away from him this
year.
From what I'm thinking about,from all the films that came out
this year, nobody's taking thatfrom him.
So it's a very different rolefor Denzel, funnily enough, even
though he played Alonzo intraining day, it's, yeah, he's,

(45:59):
it's very.

Speaker 2 (46:00):
He's back to being conniving, backstabbing villain
guy right, which is a great rolefor him.

Speaker 1 (46:07):
It's not one, obviously, that he dives into a
ton and it's funny because, like, this is the.
This is a thought process inlike writing and like casting,
like people don't understand howmuch goes into just straight
casting.
Like what pulls the biggerprecedence?
The character or the actor?
Like which one pulls, becauseyou can't be naive and not
understand what actor you haveright there.
But obviously in your head as awriter, it's the character.
But a lot of writers do saythis where it's like I think of

(46:30):
a person in my head when I'mwriting roles, like there's a
person in my head when I'mwriting this role so this feels,
this feels very much like thatI'm trying to think of, like if
another actor was playing themacronus role, but it's nearly
as compelling and I just don'tthink and that's my, that's my
point, because at the end of theday, I think denzel, just being
presence alone, it did twothings.
One, it elevated everybodyelse's performance a little bit.

(46:52):
And I'm talking you're talkingpedro pascal like this is an
award-winning actor.
You're talking paul mescal thisis an award-nominated actor.
You're talking connie nielsenyou're talking some absolute
heavyweights.
And den Denzel Washington justbeing on set of this movie
immediately has to raiseeverybody's game a bit.
Because that's like if JackNicholson were to step on set,
if you know Leo were to step onset, like if Daniel Day-Lewis

(47:15):
were to step on set, everybodyimmediately is going to be like
I grew up watching this guy,like I need to be a little bit
better because I grew upwatching his films.
And then the second point forit is the writing piece.
For it it's like, do you?
I guarantee you he was justlike, do do what you got to do,
like I'm going to give you thebasis for your character, but
like, do what you got to do.
Other actors could have playedthe part, like this kind of like

(47:37):
, you know, fluid, like, almostlike, like you said, like this
conniving weasel of a personthat would do anything, but
again, it was he's Littlefinger.

Speaker 2 (47:46):
If you've watched Game of Thrones.
He's constantly stabbing peoplein the back.

Speaker 1 (47:50):
He's Littlefinger, with more physical dominance and
fear to him.

Speaker 2 (47:55):
Which I didn't know that he had, until you get to
the end of the movie.

Speaker 1 (47:58):
But again, that's the Denzel Washington part Of him.
Just walking alone causes you abit of fear, especially as the
movie starts to chuck along.
I I made a point when we werewalking out of the theater too.
One of my favorite things ishis performance is like a train,
but you know the train's stillgetting to the station, but it's
still as sweet.
You still understand.
Like we know he's the villainof this movie.

(48:19):
Come on, like you know, he'sthe villain of this because he's
the only.

Speaker 2 (48:22):
he's the only antagonistic character that's
capable of being a villainExactly Like you.

Speaker 1 (48:26):
don't buy either, emperor, as menacing, as
Commodus was in the first oneand you immediately take away
any fear that Acacius is anysort of villain.

Speaker 2 (48:37):
Yeah, because that's like the first act, right, he
gets back from Rome and he'slike I'm going to overthrow the
Emperor.
You're like alright, you're agood guy.

Speaker 1 (48:44):
You know from the look, because you know from the
look he gives and again, that'sPedro Pascal being a great actor
.
You know from the look he's nothappy to be burning these
bodies and to be conquering thisisn't what he?

Speaker 2 (48:54):
signed up for.
And then you get to theemperors and you're like, oh,
these two are just morons, likeyou said, there's a little bit
to the, to the get a character,to joseph quinn's character,
where, like, he kind of sort ofgets it, like he kind of knows
what he's doing, and then theother one's a maniac, yeah, so
like, and you kind of wonderwhere that's going to come into
play.
And it does like denza, likethe thing about macronus is like

(49:17):
the plan, when the plan, whenhe does the plan, it happens
very quickly.
He's like, hey, all right, herewe go, it's time I'm making my
move.

Speaker 1 (49:26):
And there's, there's there's definitely a lot of real
world implications that ridleywas pulling from as well too.
Like the way that, like becausethere's just there's the scene
that we kept joking aboutwalking out of the theater is
it's like the.
The line that we're going toremember from this movie is like
or one of the lines you'regoing to remember from this
movie is when denzel's walkingand he's just like we will give
her.
You know, we're going to giveher a fair shot, because Connie

(49:47):
Nielsen's character obviouslygets exposed for trying to
overthrow the emperor.
So he's like we're going togive her a fair shot Immediately
turns around and said, as soonas she gets out there, murder
her immediately.
And he's just like why wouldyou do that?
He's like that's going to upsetthe people that want her to be
still be in power because shehas the birthright claim.
That will give rome right forthe taking, and I will take rome
, and that is politics yeah,it's um, it's, it's the.

Speaker 2 (50:11):
Again, I couldn't not think about little finger when
I thought about especially likehis plot.
Macronus's plot is it's thelittle finger, like the little
finger speech that he gives um,at the end of I think it's
season two, they do the montageand he's speaking and he goes
it's, it's the chaos is a ladderspeech that little finger gives
where he says chaos is in a pit, chaos is a ladder.
Many who try to climb it failand never get to try again.

(50:32):
The fall breaks them and someare given a chance to climb,
they refuse.
They cling to their realm orthe gods or love illusions.
Only the ladder is real, theclimb is all there is.
That's macronus's point.
Like, right, if I can.
Just it's the joker thing likeif I can instill a little bit of
chaos, a little bit of disorder, I can just ascend right to the
top that's exactly what happens, right because he, he, he's,

(50:53):
he's the brains of the operation.

Speaker 1 (50:55):
Um, that's, that's manipulating lucius, he's
manipulating the emperors what Iwould have played on a little
bit more um, before I get into,we get into our final thoughts.
What I would have played on alittle bit more before I get
into, we get into our finalthoughts, but I would have
played on a little bit more isthe is his, I, his thought
process in his head that he wassent to do this.
I wish that was something thatwe would have tugged on a little
more, that like that's hismotivate, like his motivation,

(51:17):
it was the only piece, and likeyou can put two and two together
.
But I think that was one thingwhere it was like I wanted him
to.
He should have kept at it likeno, the god sent me.
Today he just has that.
It feels like a throwaway line,like they should have hammered
that like keep at that.
Like I was sent to do this,like I was sent to.
I was sent to kill theseemperors.
I was sent to take rome formyself.

(51:38):
I was sent to markus aurelius'sside, originally to be his
slave.

Speaker 2 (51:42):
I was sent to do all these things so I can take this
for the gods yeah, because hefeels like, ultimately, he feels
like he couldn't and that's whyhe he I think he he really
works really hard to get acaciusout of the picture because I
think he realizes he even thinkshe can manipulate lucius.
He doesn't feel like I feellike that no point.
He ever feels like he canmanipulate acacia and that's why

(52:03):
he needs to get him dealt with.
There's a.

Speaker 1 (52:06):
There's a version of this movie where acacia is like
this anti-hero a little bit more.
He might lean a little becausehe is.
He's a good guy.
There's that, there's no otherway to shake it like he is just
a good guy and maybe that'spedro pascal just being like
such, like a good person andlike a person that everybody
loves, yeah, um, but it's thesame thing, like there's a
version where Paul Mescal kindof gets taken down a bit.

(52:28):
You put Pedro Pascal into.
They kind of flip a little bit,but you add to, you make sure.
So it's like it's the two ofthem against Denzel versus.
It's like Acacius is like hisengine to get him, to give him
his second act motivation,character speaking.
Give me my second actmotivation, character speaking.
Give me my second actmotivation to propel me into the
third act, like I truthfullynow know about the world.

(52:49):
Now I can go like, instead ofhim being that character, they
flip, but you have the two ofthem against against macronus
which would have been cool, Ithink.

Speaker 2 (52:57):
I think this movie could have done a lot if they,
if the acacius character, was alittle more prominent, because
he's really not in it that much.
He's in it Like in thebeginning, like he does a lot of
standing around and he does alot of fighting, yeah, and
that's a testament to PedroPascal, cause he feels like he's
in this movie for longer thanhe actually is.
He does like the plotting withLucilla, and then he's arrested

(53:19):
and then he fights Paul Mescaland then he dies.
Um, that's halfway through themovie.
Yeah, and that fight.
I loved that fight between thembecause it's the.
It's the best version of theBatman vs Superman fight, if
that makes sense, like these twocharacters are clearly there's
a there's a largemisunderstanding.
Yeah, yeah, and one of them is.

Speaker 1 (53:41):
This is a better version because one of them is
hell bent on it.
But they stay hell bent on ituntil they finally learn.
And it's not some save Martha,it's like an actual like, no,
like I, like he tell, I'm goingto give you everything you need
to know right now, like I triedto save your life once, like you
can kill me if you want.
But look, look around.
You Like just take one look andthen Acacia surrenders, yep,

(54:01):
and then Acacia surrenders andthat was the piece I give up.
I'm not going to fight you, I'mtrying to tell you I want this
gone as bad as you do.
It's that anger piece too,because Denzel keeps at it for
Lucius.
It's the anger piece.
It's like what's yourmotivation?
It's anger.
It is anger.
But it's like what's thecontrolled anger?

(54:22):
It's the dream.
Now there, it is anger.
But it's like what's thecontrolled anger?
It's the dream.
Like we can find.

Speaker 2 (54:25):
Now there's something we can actually work towards,
because he never I mean becauselucius never believed in the
dream.

Speaker 1 (54:28):
No, you don't care for it until acacius kind of
awakens it to and again it'ssupposed to be a broader thought
process of like it wasn't.
It wasn't going to be marcusaurelius, it wasn't going to be
maximus, it was going to belucius.
That was the one that was toexecute the stream.

Speaker 2 (54:43):
Yeah, yeah, and I mean you know again, like to
your Russell Crowe point like noone's ever no one, paul Mescal
or not, like no one was evergoing to hit that, Like Russell
Crowe hit a special hit, aspecial note.

Speaker 1 (54:57):
Yeah, I mean I can argue that to the end of the day
, Like you're talking about oneof the greatest like lead
performances in a film of alltime.

Speaker 2 (55:09):
Like that is one of the single best performances you
will ever find.
Yeah, nothing lucius gets to isgonna be.
My name is maximus decimusmeridius.
Yada, yada, yada, yada and I'llhave my vengeance in this life
for the next.
Like no one was ever gonna getthere.
Like that is like one of themost incredible moments right in
movies but boy does he?
he tries his best and I think hesucceeds a lot in this movie
like I can't overstate how muchI think that performance is

(55:29):
still really good and then weget, and then we get the ending,
which the ending is, isinteresting in the sense that,
you know, obviously denzel'splan doesn't, it doesn't go awry
, but like it wasn't, as like Idon't know if he thought it out
quite as much as he, as hethought he did Well, so I again

(55:51):
it's.

Speaker 1 (55:52):
It's kind of, you know, it's the outside thinking
that you shouldn't have whenyou're watching a movie.
It's like the dream itselfcomes into the movie way too
late.
The too late, the like.
The idea of the dream comes waytoo late because it's like it's
like the good.
It goes classic good versusevil.
Because it's the dream of romeversus like this is just another
emperor that's gonna rule romeand be a bad person, like and he

(56:13):
, you know, he overtakes him andhe triumphs and he wins the day
and there's no big fight.
There you go.
But like the dream came so late.
And again, if you kept acasiusin this movie all the way
through that third act, theywere the two that should have
fought in that, in that movie,and they were the two that
should have fought like itshould have been pedro pascal
versus denzel instead of insteadof paul mescal versus denzel

(56:34):
yeah, because the whole thing isacacius has his, his, his army,
his loyal army of 5 000 menoutside of of Rome, in another
place.

Speaker 2 (56:44):
They're just waiting, waiting for the command from
Acacius to come, acacius dies.
And then he gets the ring.
He gives Lucius Maximus' ringthat was originally Marcus
Aurelius' ring, yada, yada, takethis ring to my army, they'll
know you're him, basically.
And then Denzel has his, hasthe Emperor's army, the

(57:08):
Praetorian Guards, and all thatled by, led by Game of Thrones
alum Roy McLean yep, the Hound.
And I was like, is that theHound?

Speaker 1 (57:14):
yep and it was, it was the Hound it was a unit fuck
the King.

Speaker 2 (57:19):
That's what he said.
That's what he said.
That's what he did at the endof the movie.
So Macrinus leaves after theColiseum.
Bit goes awry.
Lucilla dies.
Macrinus great with a bow.

Speaker 1 (57:33):
Yeah, he is.
He's pretty good.
Didn't know that.
Get that guy in the Avengersright now.

Speaker 2 (57:37):
Didn't know Macrinus had that in him, but he's great
with a bow.
Also great with a sword.

Speaker 1 (57:50):
Well, again, and that's the final piece I'll
leave with, is one of the thingsI wish they did with that, um,
with the macronus character is Iwanted to know a little bit
more, because he is capable,physically obvious, obviously
psychologically and mentally iscapable, but physically like,
that's a truly dominating, likevillain character to have.
I wish we would have playedinto like his slave time with
marcus aurelius a little bitmore, because that's again his
motivation.
I wanted that driving piece butto be like like I, like I'm

(58:11):
justifying my enslavement.

Speaker 2 (58:12):
I justified all these things because the gods needed
to put me through this to makesure I'm ready for this moment
and I wish they would havetugged on that string a little
bit earlier, instead of savingit as like this third act, aha
it was never an aha.
We know like we we knew when hewas like do you recognize your
father's mark?

Speaker 1 (58:26):
and I'm like all right right, like yeah, like
obviously this is personal foryou, but you're also a bad
person, right, like you shouldlike.

Speaker 2 (58:34):
I wish they would have like started the
relationship of him and mescalbeing like I used to be marcus
aurelius's slave and now I'mtrying to like make a better
room and and then on his part,his daughter, my mother, set me
away, he is a bad person.

Speaker 1 (58:47):
And then Acacius' character is like no, no, no,
you're wrong.
And then they swap.
They swap the villain rolesimmediately.

Speaker 2 (58:56):
If that reveal would have happened in the beginning
of the movie, it would havegotten you on Macrinus' side a
little bit.
Oh, like you know.
He a little bit like oh, likeyou know, he's kind of like this
self.
You know, he's a self-made man,essentially, instead of like
saving it for the third act,where he's like, aha, I'm a
slave and you're like, yeah, butwe already know you're a bad
guy, right, it's like your, your, your backstory doesn't really
land for me.

Speaker 1 (59:16):
Like it's like you've already done these awful things
yeah, and imagine if that was adifferent actor in that role,
right?

Speaker 2 (59:22):
Yeah.
So Denzel leaves, magnus leavesthe city with his army, they're
going to meet Acacius' army onthe field of battle.
And then, in classic Romanfashion, it's no, we're just
going to fight, yeah, and thearmies are just going to watch.
And then whoever wins, and thearmies are just going to be like
all right, all right.
Right, all right, we surrenderbecause one guy fell, we

(59:47):
surrender.
Um, yeah, got his arm choppedoff.
Yep, um, and that was it.
And then they're like what dowe do now, lucius?
And he's like same thing we doevery day.
Binky boy, right, try torebuild the room yep, and that's
the gladiator of two.

Speaker 1 (59:59):
So what happens?
What happens to rome now?
Well, I guess they start tolike.

Speaker 2 (01:00:03):
Well, I guess lucius becomes king, but he did well,
or does he like absolute thatand just make?
Gives it back to the senate?

Speaker 1 (01:00:09):
no, he does like a.
He does a black panther 2situation where it's like let
somebody democracy thing?
No, I don't.
So maybe that's what three isgoing to be about.
Three is going to be a littlebit more political and it's like
the senate still is bad, likethere's still bad people in the
Senate.
The monkey's still there.
The monkey yeah, the monkeysare still there.
The monkey's still running theSenate.
Yeah, the monkey is running theSenate.
The monkey, funny enough, leadsthem to the most prosperous

(01:00:31):
Rome they've ever seen.
Like Rome's, just like atight-oiled ship.
It's a utopia.
It's a utopia Because Dondasleft it.
All hail King D, all hail kingdondas.
What if I?
What a fun character.
Yeah, what a fun character.
Okay, yeah, like I said, I Ithoroughly enjoyed this movie,
me too.
I just I could.
I can't help it.
I'm a sucker for the first one.

(01:00:51):
I'm a sucker for these legacysequels.
Um, I understand that there'sissues and problems and things,
but this is one of those.
Like, if I were to give anofficial rating, you, I could
probably go into like the, thelow sevens, like seven point
something.
It's good.

Speaker 2 (01:01:06):
It's a good fun time.

Speaker 1 (01:01:08):
It's still an action movie.
It still has its bits, it stillhas its triumphant moments.
It's still got all the things.

Speaker 2 (01:01:14):
Poor, went out for Lucius' wife.
Yeah, we never got to know her.
Yeah, she dies in the first.

Speaker 1 (01:01:20):
She was plot motivation.

Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
She, she was plot motivation.
She was fridged yeah, she wasfridged, rip.
They're like I love you, lucius.
Yeah, I was like, don't say it,you're going to die immediately
.
I love you too, wife.
And then she gets impaled by anarrow and she falls in the
water.
I do like the parallel ofMaximus's dream where he's
walking through the wheat fieldand Maximus' dream is like I

(01:01:48):
want to die.
Lucius' dream.

Speaker 1 (01:01:50):
Lucius' dream.
Yeah, it's like, well, he wantsto be with his wife.

Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
Yeah, he wants to cross the river sticks oh also
funny enough.

Speaker 1 (01:01:58):
Thank you for not killing him too at the end,
because that would have been waytoo easy.
Yeah yeah, thank you for notkilling lucius.
So many other of these legacysequels would have just killed
him.
Imagine he just falls down likemax.
Oh, he just dies, no wounds oranything, it's just like the
padme thing, for reasons we donot know, don't bring me back to
that.

Speaker 2 (01:02:18):
It's an all-time hilarious what happened there.

Speaker 1 (01:02:22):
I don't know, man, and that's the gladiator too.
We're losing her.
Huh, we're losing him.
We're losing him to the dreamsequence.

Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
I do like that bit, though, at the end, where he
says speak to me father.
Yeah, talk to me goose, talk tome dad, talk to me Maximus.

Speaker 1 (01:02:40):
My name is Maximus Desmus no, don't do the whole
monologue, don't do dad no wedon't have time for a whole
monologue.
Dad, we don't need the wholemonologue.
I gotta, I gotta give my ownspeech.
Um, I like the animated bit inthe beginning yeah, that was
cool.

Speaker 2 (01:02:51):
That was cool as heck I did like that?
That was pretty dang cool thelittle animated gladiator recap
that definitely was cool.
I definitely they ended themovie on maximus walking through
the wheat field again still hit.

Speaker 1 (01:03:04):
I'm sorry, still hits still hits.
He's still walking through that, we feel and that's the aura of
russell crowe you decided tonot put in this movie.
You idiots.
God, the coolest guy ever he'sthe coolest guy ever he's the
second coolest guy ever.

Speaker 2 (01:03:19):
because denzel is the coolest guy ever, I did like
the RPG-ness of the ending where, like you know how, like in an
Assassin's Creed game, like themaster set of armor is like
hidden behind, like all theunlockables, right, and he
finally got it.
He got Maximus' armor at theend.
He got all the skill upgrades.
He got like maxed out armor,maxed out sword.

(01:03:43):
He's like I'm him now.
Wait, wait, a minute.
I really like this movie.
Though it's fun, I don't knowwhat it is, man.

Speaker 1 (01:03:51):
I really enjoyed it.
I really enjoyed theperformances.
It's cool.
It's a good action movie.
It ends the year.

Speaker 2 (01:03:57):
I like that they reused the In this Life or the
Next line when he was talking toMacrinus, when he line when he
was talking to macronus when hesays I will never be an
instrument in this life, or thenext direct call back to the I
will have my vengeance in thislife for the next.
It's the best cinema.
It's good stuff, gladi.
I like they put the two, thetwo eyes, in the middle of the
movie gladiator fan for stick.

Speaker 1 (01:04:20):
You've met your match .

Speaker 2 (01:04:24):
But yeah, I thought this.
I'm trying to think if there'sanything else we didn't.
David, david Jacoby came back.
Yeah, they killed it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:30):
They killed him.
They murdered him.
He was a boy, he was a child.
They killed 86 year old DerekJacoby.
He was still a kid.
How dare you?
That was wild.
Cut his throat.

Speaker 2 (01:04:41):
That was insane.
That's it, man, I think that'sit.

Speaker 1 (01:04:43):
This cast is not that big, no, no, it's nothing
insane.
I like the new doctor character.
Yeah, he was cool.

Speaker 2 (01:04:50):
He was cool.
He was cool.
I liked the tribal chieftain.

Speaker 1 (01:04:54):
Yeah, yeah, I repeated him too.

Speaker 2 (01:04:56):
Man, that was like yeah, he just Again another guy.

Speaker 1 (01:04:59):
That was just like let the bad ones kill me.
I've done my part.
I'm not the main character inthis movie.

Speaker 2 (01:05:04):
I need to die.
I'm the motivation characterfrom the first act?

Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
is he just Thor?
Like everybody he loves, getskilled doesn't he say that?

Speaker 2 (01:05:12):
doesn't he literally say that in the movie, where
he's like everyone, everyonedies, everyone dies.
Oh yeah, I've become wellversed in losing the things I
love dang true the things I lovedang.

Speaker 1 (01:05:24):
True, my bad, all right, man, that's it.
That's it.
That's gladiator, gladiator manit was fun.

Speaker 2 (01:05:29):
I really enjoyed it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:30):
Same um read me some socials man.
Where can, where can the peoplefind us?

Speaker 2 (01:05:35):
um, you can find us on twitter at project inf
underscore pod.
You can follow us on facebook.
You follow us on tiktok tiktokproject infinite pod on t.
You can follow us on TikTokTikTok Project Infinite Pod, on
TikTok Project Infinite Podcaston YouTube.
You can follow us on InstagramAt the Project Infinite Pod.
And next week, like I said,superman and Lois, we're going
to do a series finale kind ofrecap, just overall thoughts on

(01:06:00):
what this show has done, becauseI think it's really outstanding
.
Um, but the show was able to dowith the Superman character.
Um, loads of loads of time willbe dedicated to Elizabeth
Tulloch and and Tyler Hoechlinas the uh, superman and Lois of
truly like the 2020s yeah, youknow, the first half of the like

(01:06:21):
the late 2010s and the early2020s.

Speaker 1 (01:06:24):
Yeah, you know the first half of the like the late
2010s and the early 2020s.
They were the late, late 2010s.
In the early 2020s that wasSuperman, so, and he did a great
job.
So can't wait to see him, Can'twait to, can't wait to talk
about it, Can't wait to finishthe show.
Yeah, um, and then after we'lldo like an arrow verse, cw verse
, kind of yep, and we'll have asuperman trailer by that time as

(01:06:45):
well too, so yeah, yep, allright, um, that's it, that's
gladiator careful, real carefulthis week, man, I wasn't gonna
say macanus um the generalacacia said the podcast yes yes,
that might be my favorite oneso far that's pretty good.
Anytime I get a pedro pascalone, that's good.

(01:07:06):
God he's good, yeah, he's just.

Speaker 2 (01:07:08):
It's insane ah, he's so good.
I can't wait.
I can't wait for faith.
That just made me fan excitedfor fantastic four, like seeing
him seeing joseph quinn, I'msorry there's some actors in
this.

Speaker 1 (01:07:18):
He's gonna.
He's gonna kill it as as breed.

Speaker 2 (01:07:21):
I just have a feeling he's just got the thing I like
how it's like people were likepedro pascal, yay, and then like
he got cast and they're like,eh, but then like people are
starting to remember like, no,he could act actually bleak
trailer and he's just likefamily dinners every sunday.

Speaker 1 (01:07:36):
This is what keeps family and I said wait, is that
reed?
Are you reed richards from the1960s comic books hopefully he
doesn doesn't hit his wife.
Come on, man, get us out ofhere.
We gotta go, we gotta go, manI'm just saying Until then,
until then we will.

Speaker 2 (01:07:57):
We'll see you next week.
Goodbye Peace.

All Episodes

140 - From The Sands of Rome: Gladiator II Review & Discussion!

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Dateline NBC

Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes present: Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial

Stuff You Should Know

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}140 - From The Sands of Rome: Gladiator II Review & Discussion!