150 - Revenge, Perspective, and the Cycle of Violence in The Last of Us Season 2 - The Project Infinite Podcast

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's the Infinite.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
Podcast.
Go tell your friends.
It's the Infinite Podcast.
My God, it never ends.
It's the Infinite Podcast withRob and Kork the Cube.
Hello everybody and welcomeback to another episode of the
Project Infinite Podcast, thepodcast covering the infinite

(00:24):
and ever-expanding multiverse offandom for movies, comics, tv
shows, video games.
We got you covered.
I'm rob.
I'm here, as always, with court, court, we are previewing the
last of us.
It's, it's here.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
We made it it's one of those surreal things, right
where this lightning in thebottle television show catches
absolute fire and then, you know, the season two thing comes
back.
Obviously we just came back indaredevil, which we were so
anticipating, so excited about,and now daredevil is almost over
and the last of us is going tokind of take this train, um and
or is going to run during thattime as well.

(00:56):
So this is the time we weretalking about early late last
year, early this year, of howmuch stuff we were about to get
in, get into speaking TV andmovies.
I mean, you get Thunderbolts ina month During the summer,
you're going to get JurassicWorld, you're getting Mission
Impossible in a few.
What?
In a few weeks?
Mission Impossible, fantasticFour, obviously, superman, well,

(01:18):
superman's like the big, itjust feels to me like Superman's
, the big fish in the water forthe summer.
But it all starts with.
You know what was our firstthing this year that we had?
I think daredevil was the firstbig thing this year that we had
, if I'm not mistaken.

Speaker 2 (01:31):
yeah, pretty much so, um, yeah, because that started
two months ago now yes, it'sbeen daredevil started insane to
think about I know, I know wewere just this kind of like.
We finished talking about lastweek when we were, you know,
before we decided we were goingto do this episode first.
Obviously, next week we're goingto do Daredevil, but, um, it
was crazy Like just talking,being like, yeah next week we're

(01:52):
going to do our Daredevilseason one review, when, like it
felt like for the longest timewe were just waiting for it to
come out, and now it's alreadyhere and pretty much done.
And then, you know, same pointmade to the Last of Us.
Although it's weird, Like Ifelt, because Daredevil was
subsequently a continuation butalso new, it didn't feel like.

(02:13):
It felt like it kind of cameout of nowhere at the same time,
Like, oh look, dang it'salready here, whereas like the
wait between the first seasonand the Last of Us, and this one
feels longer.

Speaker 1 (02:22):
Yeah, it does, it does feel longer because we also
had that time where, you know,and also to the point for
Daredevil, he was showing up inthings, fisk was showing up in
things.
That's a good point.
This is like this, you know,isolated universe, where those
types of things don't happen.
It was funny we were justwatching the Henry spoiler
alerts for season one, but wewere just watching the reactions

(02:42):
for episode five of the last ofus, season one, with henry and
sam, both of their deaths and um, when ellie's rubbing the blood
and we're watching people belike, well, is that it's, this
isn't?
Is that gonna save maybe his?
But no, this isn't a superherouniverse.
Like no, it's not.
This is bleak.
And you know, the biggest thingabout this franchise, about why
this story it's my favoritestory that's ever been made is

(03:02):
the last of a story.
The reason it works so well isbecause of the human aspect to
this thing, and it's the most,it's probably one of the most
human stories that you will everconsume, and I mean just the
fact that the controversy ofwhatever season two is going to
unfold.
Obviously we're going to getthe first part of it tonight.
I don't care.
Like it's just this show inthis universe, in this move in

(03:22):
the in the game, like they justdo such an absolutely wonderful
job, bleak job, a wonderful jobof just making you feel, and
it's just goes to the old adageGood, you know, good movies or
good shows, they make you feelsomething, however Devastator
and however triumphant, theymake you feel something.
In the last fest makes you feela lot of that something.

Speaker 2 (03:43):
Yeah.
So I mean obviously, basically,basically, you know kind of
what we're going to talk about.
We're going to talk about a,the episode structure of this
upcoming season.
We're going to talk about someof the actors involved, some of
the directors involved, um, justkind of like our overall
thoughts and kind of feelings onwhat we think this season is
going to cover.
Um, I will say up top, umspoiler alert for anything that
that we talk about, because, um,we both have played the last of

(04:06):
us, part two, and are familiarwith the story, at least
familiar enough, you know,familiar enough with the story
to kind of intimate where eventsare going to transpire.
So, if you don't want to knowanything about this season the
last of us, or what may or maynot happen, or plot elements
that you know may or may notunfold, obviously, just steer

(04:28):
clear of this, because there areprobably a couple of things
that we're going to have totouch upon.
As far as you know, if we'regoing to make any type of
prediction or thoughts on wherethe season is going to go, we're
going to naturally going tohave to talk about some of the
plot points of of the game,because obviously it's an
adaptation.
So if you don't want to knowanything, um, just steer.

(04:48):
Maybe just steer clear.
Come back to us, I don't know,after the season's over or if
you want to learn yourself upand you know.
Brace yourself by learning aboutthe last most part two and
seeing what the story is allabout.
You know by all means, butobviously if you're a show-only
person, that's cool too.
I have a lot of people in mylife that just watch the show

(05:09):
because it's a good TV show andI've been very careful to not
spoil anything or say what'sgoing to happen.
I enjoyed the ride of Last ofUs of season one and they did a
nice job and I expect they'regoing to do so again of not
subverting I guess subvertingexpectations, if you want to

(05:30):
talk about the Bill and Frankstuff from last season, which
was a massive curveball topeople who play the game.
For me for the better, I thinkthat episode is brilliant For
the absolute better.

Speaker 1 (05:45):
I mean, we could just start our discussion just based
off that and about adaptationand what you change and what you
keep the same.
For me and somebody made areally good point about that
change and adaptation doesn'tovertly need to be
narrative-wise.
It can be thematic, and that'swhat episode three does.
It takes the core theme of whatthe Last of Us is.

(06:05):
It's the surviving of humanity,it's the enduring survival,
what's enduring and surviving.
Then you translate that toSeason 2.
It's Jackson, it's theembodiment of the town of
Jackson, that really understandsthat this kind of sect of
humanity that still holdsthrough, no matter how bad
things get, community will stillhold through.
Love will still holds through.
No matter how bad things get,community will still hold

(06:26):
through.
Love will still hold through.
All those themes will stillhold through, and that's what I
think the last of us, you know,that instinct to protect your,
your child, will still holdthrough, like that's humanity to
its core, and it's somethingthat Druckmann really understood
when he made the game and thatMazin really knew how to
quantify and really kind of takeeven farther once he took helm
of this show as well too.
So just looking at episode three.

(06:48):
Just you know this otherworldlyentity of just emotion, like
this emotional wave and rollercoaster that we went on.
I mean, is there anything fromthe game part two that you
really want to see?
Kind of them take the sameswing at?
I think we already know thatEugene the weed farmer from
jackson is gonna.
Probably I don't know if it'sgonna be his episode that's

(07:09):
gonna do it.
I'm just I'm curious um.

Speaker 2 (07:12):
I mean, I think we I think we kind of talked about
this a little bit as we've beentalking about season two in um,
you know, here and there as it'scome across, I think the wlf
crew could really stand from alot of yes you know massaging
and a lot of development,particularly a couple characters
obviously abby, but we're gonnaget that.

(07:32):
Like I'm not worried aboutabby's, I think they're gonna.
I'm I'm preparing for a lot ofearly abby.
I'm expecting a lot of earlyabby and a lot of ab Abby
backstory early in the season tokind of make her more of a less
of a specter and less of amystery and more of a main
character and I think to thatpoint.

Speaker 1 (07:53):
You know this is going to be one of those
oddities and one of thoserarities, like where it's going
to benefit that you didn't playthe game by the time Abby's
character rolls around.

Speaker 2 (08:00):
But I'm gonna let you keep going though um, but yeah,
so obviously we're going to getAbby.
I am going to subset that with.
I think we need a lot of Owen,I think we need a lot of Owen
kind of deep diving, because Ithink that's a character that's
really interesting in comparisonto a lot of the other WLF
Seattle crew.
Do we know who's playing Owen?

(08:21):
Yeah, Spencer Lord is playingOwen.

Speaker 1 (08:24):
Why do I know Spencer Lord?

Speaker 2 (08:27):
Notable roles are as Nathan Price Jr in the CBC drama
series Heartland, he played acharacter in Family Law.
He's appeared in televisionfilms and had a role in the
series the Good Doctor.
So I don't know if you know himfrom any of those things.

Speaker 1 (08:40):
The Good Doctor.
I feel like I might have seenhim in for a second.

Speaker 2 (08:44):
He had a recurring role in Heartland and a
recurring role in Family Law andhe was in two episodes of
Riverdale.

Speaker 1 (08:50):
Stephen Lord.
Yes, how old is he?
52?
No, that can't be him.
No, he's 32.
Yeah, that can't be him.
Spencer Lord, sorry, oh, that'swhy I was confused.
Okay, and you said he was inRiverdale Two episodes of
Riverdale.
Yeah, yeah, he looks oddlyfamiliar.
He looks.

Speaker 2 (09:07):
Riverdale-ish.
Yes, we are going to speakingof that.
We are going to be seeing somefamiliar faces in this Danny
Ramirez yes, yes.

Speaker 1 (09:16):
Is in this.
He's playing Manny.
I was really thinking aboutthis casting for this.
It's a great cast.
Yes, the cast like IsabellaMarcet, Danny Ramirez getting in
there, Young Mancino, and youalways have to pick the one
actor from each season that'sgoing to be from the game and
getting what's his name.

Speaker 2 (09:32):
Jeffrey Wright.

Speaker 1 (09:37):
Getting Jeffrey Wright is just.
It was the one that you neededto get from the game for the
season two.

Speaker 2 (09:40):
He was the one that you needed to hold through and
Isaac's again, kind of goingback to my point about the WLF
crew kind of needing a littlemore expansion, I think Isaac is
someone that also needs a lotof expansion, especially if
we're going to, because there'sgoing to be such a balancing act
with Abby and you have to giveher Other than the specter of
the antagonistic figure that shesees in her life, you also have

(10:02):
to give her a direct antagonist.
Yes, and I think you can buildIsaac up to being that early,
because in the game it kind ofmanifests a little bit later
down the road.
But I think you need to kind ofset a little bit of a line
between Isaac's vision versusthe rest of the crew's vision.

(10:24):
Yes, because it is different.

Speaker 1 (10:26):
Yeah, it is.
It's an execution differencebetween the two of them.

Speaker 2 (10:30):
Yeah, I mean some of like.
I think like Manny Manny isobviously kind of all in on.
Isaac's vision Right For, likethe WLF but like all the others,
are kind of a little waffly.
Obviously, Isaac Isaac has thiscult of personality about him
that you know, that you see in alot of different media and
different shows where you knowthese people feel obligated to

(10:55):
him for this, that or anotherthing right, I mean the
Seraphite piece we can go intothat and the Scar Queen.

Speaker 1 (11:01):
I think you can use that as probably one of the
stronger cold opens, and I wasI've been saying this for the
longest time since season onecame out, because I didn't know
that season one was gonnaabsolutely the the most
terrifying thing from season onewas the cold open from episode
one and episode two were the twomost terrifying pieces of the
whole show.
But you can structure it.
I was really thinking about,like, who do you get to play the

(11:23):
Scar Queen?
I forget the actress's name.
She was in Mississippi, masala,and then she was in Fallout.
I feel like she would be theperfect Scar Queen to play in
this, oh yeah.
This, like you know, cult-likefigure that, right after the
ashes of whatever happened onOutbreak Day, like she
truthfully became like this godto the, to the people of seattle

(11:46):
.
Like I really want to see thatrealized and I want to see
isaac's like militaristic way tobe, like no, this is an
absolute cult.
Like this these people are up,they're insane.
Like this is like.
This is like an insane thing.
Like they just rid themselvesof all technology they rid
themselves of like they're now.
They're like they turnthemselves into a cult.
Like I want to see.
I want to see their battle.

(12:06):
Like I want to see that as anactual character, because I
think they're going to try to,because they I think they
released that photo of like theum, like whatever the thing is,
like see her vision or whateverthe thing is.
So I'm really looking forwardto that.
But jeffrey wright being backas isaac, I think was one of the
most important things with thiscast.
And then I forget what theactor's name is from Beef as
well, too.

(12:27):
That's playing.

Speaker 2 (12:28):
Oh, young man Zeno, yeah, yeah, he's playing Jesse
Yep.
Yeah, this cast is absolutelystacked, which is really really
great.
Yeah, I mean, I guess is thereanything that you know?
I kind of said my piece, Ithink, to your point.
I think the Seattle stuffspecifically like who, like the
characters in Seattle notnecessarily the Seattle stuff,
because obviously we're going toget there, but I think the

(12:50):
characters that originate out ofthat Seattle area need a little
bit of development in order forthis season to work, or not
just this season, because, youknow, another thing that we need

(13:10):
to talk about too is the Lastof Us Part II, part two, the
game, you know the adaptationsbeing split across two seasons
um, this season, which is sevenepisodes, and then, and then
next season, season three, we'lltell the story of the last of
us part two, which is a wholenother discussion I think that
we have to talk about.
But, yeah, I think the seattlestuff, just in general, just
needs a lot more expansion.
Um, in order for us, again, Ithink I think the objective with
with the Abby character needsto be to present her as a
co-protagonist and not anantagonist, which is how she's

(13:30):
positioned in the beginning ofthe game Come to find out she's
actually also a protagonist, butby that point it's a really
difficult maneuver to pull off.

Speaker 1 (13:41):
I always talk about.
A perspective is everything.
You switch the perspective fromAbby.
I just feel like again, I'vebeen saying it for a few weeks
on here you position, you wantto talk characters to add Do we
know who's playing her dad?
Yet no Again.
You bring in a notable actor toplay her father and you have
that person in this season, thewhole season.

(14:03):
in the last episode is theflashback to the right of what
happens like which I think theymight do yes, you let, and it's
like again, that's why to thewhole point, like if you really
want to like, if I'm like mythematic hopes is like how
important perspective is tothings like you you flip the
perspective and turn joel intolike this absolute monster.

(14:23):
By the time that season, likethe season two finale comes up
and then you back.
You like the backflow from thatis the actual you know her, her
killing joel, and it's justlike a party who's got to sit
there and be like well, she didkill, he did kill her father in
cold blood, like he.

Speaker 2 (14:39):
I think, yeah, I mean not to jump too far ahead on
like wild, wild internetspeculation, but I think, from
like a story perspective, Ithink, because the way,
obviously the way the game doesit is that happens first and
then they do a lot ofbackfilling to explain what
happened, you know, and why shefeels that way, I think the
show's gonna do the inverse.

(14:59):
I think the show is going toshow us her and her dad, then I
think the show is going to showus that moment and then we're
going to be left feeling likeconflicted, as opposed to like
this bitch, like she killed Joel, like some people are still
going to feel that way andthere's nothing wrong with

(15:21):
feeling that way either well,some people are going to feel it
because they're incels.
Well, yeah, but I mean there'snothing wrong with being angry
at her for killing your favoritecharacter.
Like there's nothingobjectively wrong with that,
Like you can be mad at that.

Speaker 1 (15:34):
Yeah, I mean, the true test of the season and I
don't even want to say true testto Craig Mazin, as if he's not
an Emmy Award winningwinningwriter is if he can pull off see
if he can do this, yeah yeah,he probably can't.
You're just upset because you'rebecause your gaming dad passed
away.
Like I want to see how well hepulls off perspective.
I want to see how well he pullsoff the different point of view

(15:57):
of like no, joel walked intothat hospital and was an
absolute tyrant.
He walked into that hospitaland did like the most inhumane
things Flip the perspective.

Speaker 2 (16:07):
Some crazy person just walked in and took away
humanity's last chance at a cureEven if it's a chance, he took
it away and it's not just, andthat's why it's so important,
rightly or wrongly, that he doeswhat he does with the doctors,
because you can even write awaythe idea that he kills all those
fireflies, because thefireflies are a militia at the

(16:29):
end of the day, and you knowthey kind of the fireflies are
not noble, you know what I mean.
They're not someholier-than-thou paladins of the
of the apocalypse, you know.
I mean, like they've done badthings, they continue to do bad
things.
So him killing a bunch offireflies in there is not the
heinous act, really.
It's the doctors, it's thepeople that, like, had no skin
in the game other than trying toyou know, potentially save

(16:52):
humanity that's where the lineyep is crossed and the second
game, it teases it.

Speaker 1 (16:58):
I think a little too much, instead of having it fully
realized, is abby's dad shouldhave.
It should have been such apoint to be like he was the
altruistic person that believedthat there was a future for
tomorrow, which he did, causeyou can just kind of, you know,
tether things together.
But I want to actually likethat's a time where you, where
you show and tell, like I wanthim to be, like no, like there

(17:21):
is a future, the way, likethey're coming, like to save us
all, like I want that, like hopefor humanity piece, and then
this monster, joel, comes andjust strips it right away.

Speaker 2 (17:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah for sure.
So, yeah, I mean, is thereanything you know, kind of like
bouncing it back to you, thatyou want to see like expanded
upon?

Speaker 1 (17:39):
I mean, like I said, the Scar stuff.
I want to see expanded uponIsaac's backstory a lot I want
to see I'm really keen to seethem what they do with Tommy.
I feel like they're going togive Tommy a lot to do in this
season as well.

Speaker 2 (17:54):
Well, I think one of the swept under the rug things
like minor changes from the gameto the show is Maria's pregnant
.

Speaker 1 (18:02):
Maria's pregnant At the end of you know in season
one when they go to Jackson, andI think Joel in one of the
trailers is holding their childas well too.
So that's a pretty significantdifference.

Speaker 2 (18:13):
Yep, that's a big change.
Tommy's character.

Speaker 1 (18:15):
I mean, one of the bigger things for Tommy's
character is that he's exmilitary as well too.
Like, not even X, like DesertStorm, x military.
So you know, I think it's suchthis little small thing of I
think they're going to hold thistill season three, but when
Tommy goes on his like his, youknow, his personal revenge John

(18:36):
Wick story to go get justice forJoel, like you know, obviously
spoilers but he kills, he killsManny.
I can't wait to see that.
Like it's going to givesomebody really credible.
Just some other thoughts I had,um, I was, I was always in on
Caitlin Deaver playing Abby andthen I heard her voice in that
trailer and I was like, oh myGod, that sounds exactly like

(18:56):
her.
Like it's absurd.
So I, you know, I hope I wish Ican put like a shield around
Caitlin Deaver for the hateshe's about to receive.
Like you saw what they're doingto Bella Ramsey now and what
they did to her before, like Ican only imagine what's going to
happen when she kills PedroPascal.
Like I can only earthly imaginehow she's going to be hated for
this fictional thing, youweirdos, yeah, yeah.

(19:19):
So I mean last last thoughts, Imean last last thoughts, I mean
again, just this team.
It's absurd.
I mean, you know,budgeting-wise and scale-wise,
it seems like we're going tohave some big like what's the
episode of Game of Thrones whereit's like one of the most
famous episodes of Game ofThrones?
I think it's in season, are?

Speaker 2 (19:39):
you talking about Hardhome when they fight the
White Walkers?

Speaker 1 (19:45):
No, no, no, it's season seven when they fight the
White Walkers.
No, no, no, it's season sevenwhen they oh, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah.
I feel like in season twothere's going to be I think
there's going to, because thisdidn't happen in the game
there's going to be an assaulton Jackson, like that's what I'm
really keen to see.
That's going to be a massivedifference from the game.
That doesn't happen in Jackson.

Speaker 2 (19:57):
Yeah, they've.
You know the idea that like, oh, you didn't think there were
enough infected in season one.
I watch this, yeah, so it feelslike we're going to get a lot
more of that in season two, butI also I did kind of like the
scaled back nature of theaffected in season one,
especially like I love thatsecond episode with the clicker
Cause.
like as a gamer you're like, ah,clicker, who cares?

(20:20):
Like you fight 10,000 of themin the game.
But like I love how they madelike the clicker in episode two
of season one like a like a bossbattle Like there was, like it
was like a real tense, like likethis could go south quickly
with these things, like they'rereally even the regular kind of
standard running, infected, arepresented pretty menacingly.
So I'm curious to see if youknow.

(20:41):
So I'm curious to see if theykeep that or if they kind of
start making the infected kindof like the walking dead, like
the walkers, where they're justkind of like all right, they're
dispatched Until we get to.
Presumably this is going to benext season, I imagine, because
they're probably still figuringout the machinations of how to
make the Rat King work in liveaction.

Speaker 1 (21:01):
Yeah, I mean, the first step to making the Rat
King work is having the bloaterwork.

Speaker 2 (21:05):
That's the first step , which they did, which they did
in the season, they did inseason one.

Speaker 1 (21:08):
And they did I mean some CG, but some practically.

Speaker 2 (21:10):
The suit was practical.
Yeah, which is insane.
They put like a giant humaninside, yes, like a 400 pound
bloater costume Right.

Speaker 1 (21:17):
And I still think they're in season 3 where Abby
goes down into the hospital.
It's going to be one of themost tense scenes in television.

Speaker 2 (21:28):
It's going to be insane.
I'm so curious to see how theypull the Rat King off.
If you want to know, justGoogle the Rat.
King, last of Us and look atthat I joked when I played the
Last of Us Part 2, I was likeall of a sudden the Last of Us
became a Resident Evil game.

Speaker 1 (21:42):
That thing is nightmare.
Fuel it.
Resident Evil game Yep, yeah,that thing is nightmare fuel.
It's crazy looking man, it'shorrifying and it's so smart
where they put it in a hospitalLike no, this is like this was
ground.
I love the lore behind it.
Oh it's just that.

Speaker 2 (21:53):
It was just this amalgamation of infected that
were just festering since, yeah,since day one.

Speaker 1 (21:59):
Literally since day one.

Speaker 2 (22:01):
And it just stayed down there.
Yep, they just like coalescedinto this monstrosity Like it's
very, it is, it's very.
Resident Evil yes, it is.
I mean we can just rip off,like rip through the cast list,
you know, obviously, startingstarting at the top, pedro
Pascal, bella Ramsey, bothplaying very different versions

(22:23):
of these characters from when weleft them.
Season two picks off five yearsafter season one.
We're obviously going to seesome of those interspersed years
, because some of that stuff isvery integral to the plot,
seeing kind of how theirrelationship deteriorates,

(22:44):
because that's, you know, evencoming off of season one you get
that vibe which the game, thegames, also do, where they have
that final, you know,affirmation of like.
Tell me, tell me, everythingabout the fireflies is true.
And Joel says he swears andswear.
And Ellie gives this kind ofnoncommittal.
Okay, you know, you couldeither take it as she believes
him or take it as she doesn'tbelieve him, but she's going

(23:04):
along with it anyway.

Speaker 1 (23:05):
Because that's her father.

Speaker 2 (23:07):
Yeah, so the intercut five years becomes very
important, because I wonder Iguess, going into speculation, I
got to imagine that the dancehall stuff is how this first
episode is going to end.

Speaker 1 (23:24):
Sure.

Speaker 2 (23:25):
Sure, maybe not end, but I imagine it'll be there,
the stuff in the dance hallhappening, which is kind of like
the final straw in Joel andEllie's relationship is what
happens in that dance hall.
Sure, so I'd imagine that'sprobably going to be there, you
know, obviously there's thescene with the therapist who was

(23:46):
basically the stand-in forTommy essentially Dude.

Speaker 1 (23:51):
I truthfully believe that they're going to take care
of it in episode one.
I feel like they're at leastgoing to show the confrontation.
I think Joel and Tommy aregonna meet abby in episode one
and then each episode they'regonna reveal a layer and a layer
until it gets to episode sevenoh, so that's how you think

(24:12):
they're gonna do it interestingI just feel like it looms the
presence for people that haveplayed the game to be like I
gotta see how this goes.
I can't just check out now, likethat's probably what they're
trying to avoid.
Is people checking out becauseeither they hate women or
because they're incels, or ifthey, you know truthfully, are
going to be your smallest partof people that are like, oh, I

(24:32):
don't want to see Joel die, I'mnot going to watch this season.
But at least the people thathaven't watched the game like to
my point earlier, like thismight be the only video game
adaptation season or thing thatyou probably don't want the
people that have played the gameimmediately out of the gate, so
they just have to go along forthis ride Cause again.
Like it's going to be likethose who know and those who
don't know, like Tommy showsTommy and Joel get Abby and they

(24:55):
save her and it's just likewhat were your names again, and
then the episode ends.

Speaker 2 (24:59):
I wonder if they're going to.
I wonder if they're gonna takeTommy completely out of that
situation.

Speaker 1 (25:04):
No, because I think they want the.
What's the actor that playsTommy's name, gabriel Luna?
Yeah, I feel like they wantGabriel Luna on a mad tirade in
season 3, because he's thatcapable of an actor as well too.
And to put him against DannyRamirez and Caitlin Dever as
well, I feel like that would becool.

Speaker 2 (25:21):
I just feel like there's gonna be some type of
hook in that sequence thatchanges, and I just don't know
what it is.

Speaker 1 (25:28):
I feel like you.
One-for-one that I don't feellike you.
Yeah, I feel like that's aone-for-one.

Speaker 2 (25:33):
It could be.
The scene itself is probably aone-for-one, but I think to your
point.
I'm trying to think of ways tokind of work around, not work
around, not work around it, butget them all in a room together,
but not super early in theseason, and maybe like that's
the trick, maybe like they getthem all in the room together
and then we start doing likeAbby stuff, like Abby flashback

(25:53):
stuff.
So by the time we returned tothat room we already know why,
like what her motivation is, andyou're kind of like then you're
conflicted.
You're like.
You're like at first you'reconflicted.
You're like.
You're like at first you'relike, oh, like damn, like who is
this woman that's got joel liketrapped dead to rights?

Speaker 1 (26:09):
and then you know, we kind of explore her backstory
and then you go back to thatroom and all of a sudden you're
like oh, well, I mean, to mypoint, if they are going to do
it that way and reveal thelayers, that therapy session is
going to be equally as importantto giving favor to Abby as well
, too.
To like she's like, like it'sgoing to be like.
So you murdered just heaps ofpeople and possibly the only

(26:33):
cure for this off emotion, likejust because you know now the
human race might not survive,for you know X amount of
hundreds of years because of you, and you killed this.
You know again, to theinnocent's point, you just
killed this woman's father.
For what?

Speaker 2 (26:51):
Or I mean, if you want to massage it a little bit
and kind of alter the scene,because that's what could happen
and still happen.
But you could have Abby andJoel have a bit of dialogue.
You know what I mean.
Like if Abby just flat out says, like you killed my father,
that would leave the viewergoing ugh, like you know what I

(27:11):
mean, whereas, like in the gameobviously she comes across as
like this brute Mm-hmm, and Joelis also like a brute Mm-hmm, so
he's like whatever speech youhave saved, like just get on
with it.
You know what I mean, but PedroPascal's Joel is a little bit
more tender.
He's a little bit more tenderBecause there's several moments
that are like that, like thescene in episode five where he

(27:32):
goes up to the sniper and hegives that guy like a chance.
He's like, just please, justput your gun down, like I don't
want to kill you, like pleasejust put the gun down, and then
the sniper goes, you know, forthe gun and Joel has to kill him
.
So there's a tenderness to hischaracter where I feel like him
and Abby can kind of chat forhot second before maybe it looks
like Manny, that like steps inand is like no, you have to like

(27:54):
, you have to do it.

Speaker 1 (27:56):
I could see a situation wherethat tenderness to Joel's is
it's going to be played up inthe season.
It's because of Ellie, soessentially Ellie's the one
that's killing him, becauseEllie took away that or she gave
it.
I don't want to say take away.

Speaker 2 (28:10):
I don't think it's an accident either that Caitlin
Dever and Bella Ramsey look verysimilar to each other, and they
both have a kind of youth aboutthem so that when Joel he's
going to hesitate, becausenormal Joel before that would
have murdered her without even asecond to think even when Joel
is at the situation where he'sdead to rights, I can see a
world where he kind of resignsto it, whereas he resigns to it

(28:33):
in the game, but it's moredefiant this version.

Speaker 1 (28:39):
you know what it could play as relief he finally
gets to.
I'm going to take it furtherthan relief it's Penance.

Speaker 2 (28:48):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (28:49):
Yep Exactly.

Speaker 2 (28:51):
Like there's not.
There's an element of that inthe game, but like, again, the
way Troy Baker voices it and theway the scene's written.
He's very defiant and he's very.

Speaker 1 (28:59):
And that's that Joel.
That's that Joel to the core,that Joel would always have done
that.

Speaker 2 (29:05):
This version of Joel.
I feel like there could andagain that may help the Abby
character a little bit for himto sit there and just kind of
accept it and be like you knowwhat.
I kind of had this coming.
Yeah, you know what I mean, itwas bound to catch up to me and
it's like he's going to have tolook in the mirror too.

Speaker 1 (29:21):
Too, like I killed for her, she's killing for her
father.
I get it, I can't do anything.

Speaker 2 (29:29):
Like this, is it?
And that's the closure inJoel's story that the game
didn't necessarily outwardlyprovide, which I think the show
will need to provide in order tomake Abby more tolerable?
And I think again, the way theybuilt up Pedro's version of
Joel, I think, lends itself tothat, where he just kind of, and
you know what the good thing is, the good thing Eventually,

(29:52):
when she does what she does, ifthis version of Joel resigns to
it, it doesn't change anythingelse.
Because, Ellie and Tommy arestill going to react the way
that they're going to react.
Regardless of how Joel takes it.

Speaker 1 (30:08):
If Joel is just like nah man, like it's cool, like do
what you got to do but likethat doesn't mean tommy and
ellie have to be cool with it,no, so you and then you know
what that's going to play up.
The whole theme for the thirdseason, yeah, the cycle of
violence theme.
That's what the second half ofthat game really does well in a
way.

Speaker 2 (30:18):
Like I think it might be even a little bit smarter if
you have joel kind of resignedto and accept it, because then
it paints tommy and ellie islike man, like I get why you
want revenge, but like joelseemed okay with it, like you
guys should kind of let this go,but they're not going to, and I
think that's kind of the point.
And for abby at the same pointit's gonna make her kind of feel

(30:40):
a little unfulfilled that likejoel didn't go down like begging
for his life, like he went downkind of feel a little
unfulfilled.
Yes, that like Joel didn't godown like begging for his life,
like he went down kind ofknowing he'd screwed up, mm-hmm,
you know.

Speaker 1 (30:49):
Again, I think that's actually so smart to do those
therapy sessions, because it'sgoing to start to get revealed
that, like, maybe I am themonster, like maybe I am the
person that, like I, you know.

Speaker 2 (31:12):
Yeah, the more I'm thinking about it, the more I'm
kind of hoping that's kind ofthe route they go, like I do
kind of hope that he kind ofresigns to it and kind of gives
her like the like a, you got meand be like I kind of deserve it
.
Like if you're gonna do it,like do it, but like just know,
like it's okay, yeah, like I getit.
Um, and then, like I said, thatdoesn't change anything for
ellie or tommy, like they stillhad to watch him die and they
still have every right to beangry and want retribution.

(31:33):
But for joel, it gives him anice little, it gives him one
bit of closure yeah and then Ithink the second bit of closure,
which the game holds until thevery, very end of the game, um,
is that he got his closure withEllie too, and I think you can
still hold on to that.
I don't think you need to movethat up any further in the story
because that's such a crucialpart of the Last of Us.

(31:55):
Part II is trying to figure outdid Joel and Ellie ever end on
bad terms?
Is there an unfulfillment there?
So I think you can't still holdon to that stuff until the end
of the game.
But I think you expedite theAbby stuff early with her and
her dad and then you kind oftweak the ending a little bit.

(32:16):
Well, joel's ending you tweak alittle bit to make him a little
more resigned to what's aboutto happen.
Right, you know one characterI'm a little more resigned to
what's about to happen.

Speaker 1 (32:25):
Right, you know, one character I'm really thinking
about is Dina, I think.

Speaker 2 (32:27):
Dina is one of the more, the more interesting
characters.
We should talk about Dina a lot.
Yeah, she's obviously supercritical.

Speaker 1 (32:34):
She's not only physically critical, she's
emotionally critical, she'sthematically critical.
She's one of the moreinteresting characters in this
whole universe is Dina, becauseit's this catalyst, that kind of
it's the reverse, like she's if, if Joel dying is the fuse,
dina's like the the technicianto stop the bomb, like she's the
one that's always kind of justlike I love how like

(32:56):
happy-go-lucky Dina is as welltoo, and again, she's such a
good person to have counterEllie and Ellie's descent and
Ellie's descent and season andthe second game is just, it's so
masterfully done in my opinionit's something you you know.
Again, if you want to talk aboutthe structure of the second
game being off, I mean those,one of those are one of the
things you want to focus on,like because they do such a good

(33:17):
job of making sure that Ellieis a critical, a credible,
playable character that peoplewant to play with, and then they
take it away from you, likethat's the thing that, like I
will say, is a little tough.
But dina's character is sodynamic in that sense of like
she's such this grounding forcefor ellie, so it's like if
something happens to dina, it'san extension of something

(33:38):
happening to ellie.
It's like that's such a greatcharacter and I think isabella
marcette is an inspired choiceas well too Like she feels such
like this, like nice calmingpresence along.
Like you know we saw that scenewhere Ellie's singing as well
too and like I just know there'sgoing to be some heartbreaking.
I mean, you want to talk about,you know, and obviously we're
talking character, but just togo along with that set design.

Speaker 2 (34:05):
And this just looks absurdly great for this season.
Yeah, I mean, we saw that.
We saw kind of the sneak peekof it with episode six of last
season, where we weren'texpecting to go to Jackson at
all and then they just gave itto us.

Speaker 1 (34:14):
Right.

Speaker 2 (34:15):
And I was like I was floored, like it was flawless.
Like it was they pulled?
It's like they pulled it rightout of the game.
Yeah, that was one of the mostmind-bending parts of season one
.
To me was going properly intoJackson, because I was like wait
a second.
And that's how I knew.
They were obviously very, verystrongly hinted that we were

(34:37):
going to get a season two andthey were going to adapt the
last of us part two, becausethey gave us the whole Jackson
set and then segwaying that tothe Seattle stuff um which we
are going to see.
So you know that's.
That's why I'm saying, like youknow, you obviously can't.
The game is told non-linearly.

(34:58):
I expect the show to also betold non-linearly, but also be
told non-linearly differently.

Speaker 1 (35:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:04):
Because you can't just do seven episodes of Ellie
on her revenge tour.

Speaker 1 (35:10):
No.

Speaker 2 (35:11):
And then save all the Abby stuff until next season.

Speaker 1 (35:13):
No.

Speaker 2 (35:14):
You have to do both this season.
You have to.
And then where you end theseason, I don't think you the
natural again.
This is where, like, showpeople and game people are gonna
like kind of not argue butthere's gonna be like I think
game people feel the naturalstopping point for the episode
seven of the season is the movietheater and then flipping

(35:36):
because they're thinking likegame brain no no but that's
that's.

Speaker 1 (35:39):
You can't no, that's not where, that's not.
No, that's not too much, that'snot climactic enough to have
for season storytelling.
That like and this is thinkingbigger picture it's like
thinking of like a studio head.
A studio head doesn't want toend this thing at a movie
theater and then it be over.
No, a studio head's gonna sayend this with jo Joel's death.
Like, end this with Joel'sdeath or you end it with.

(36:00):
You can end it with Joel'sdeath, you can end it with
whatever this Jackson Assault onJackson's going to be.

Speaker 2 (36:05):
You know what I would love, and they're not going to
do this.
But I would kind of like whatyou were saying about, like kind
of Abby backstory, like, andyou get like episode seven.
We're back in the cabin, weknow what all these characters
are about and you don't knowwhat Abby's going to do.
Maybe Abby just lets him goLike you know what I mean.

(36:27):
Like you play with it, playwith it a little bit and then
that way, like she does what shedoes and you're like like we
did all this, we did all this.
We thought maybe they come to acommon understanding.
We spent so much time in thiscabin, in this room with each
other and maybe she's just goingto let him go.
She's a protagonist.
We've built her up now thatshe's a protagonist type

(36:49):
character.
We kind of like her.
At least that's kind of thehope.

Speaker 1 (36:52):
You know what?

Speaker 2 (36:53):
I mean we kind of like her.
Maybe she just lets Joe go andthen no, she doesn't.
And you're like, you know whatI mean.
But I mean they're not going todo that Because obviously us,
knowing what we know, we knowthat Seattle is in this season.

Speaker 1 (37:08):
We know.

Speaker 2 (37:09):
Ellie and Dina are going to be in Seattle.

Speaker 1 (37:10):
That's why I think this whole thing is going to be
like a broken Not broken butnon-linearly told Again, not
broken but non-linearly toldAgain.
Like you said, to your point,you get them in the cabin for
episode seven, just get them allin the cabin and you have all
the themes that were playingthroughout the season go right
to a head.
So that way, like I said, youphysically see Abby, joel, tommy

(37:35):
and then all their friends allaround and they just had this
big thing.
It will help with the Jacksonstuff.
It'll help make me feel for theJackson stuff too Physically.
It's going to help Tommy'scharacter too earlier, because
obviously in the second half ofthe game Tommy's character is
like a madman.
But it'll help his character.
It'll help the emotionality ofthe Jackson scene itself and

(37:56):
caring about all these peoplefrom Jackson.
But then, like I said, you hitright to episode seven.
You're in that cabin and likeit's the thing, it's like the
gamers who know, they know, andthat keeps everybody stuck
around.
And then again you want to talkabout the studio has.
It's like I need a big bang,you want to talk about the
biggest bang you can get, butagain you're flashing forward to
an incident that you knowhappens, and that's the reason

(38:19):
that they're in Seattle.

Speaker 2 (38:21):
Do you think there's any possibility that they start
Ellie and Dina in Seattle andyou don't know why they're there
?

Speaker 1 (38:25):
Sure, sure, I think that's actually.
You know what.
I'm going to go as far as yousaid that to a probability,
again, it's going to be likeAbby's already going to be on
this revenge tour this wholetime.
Ellie's going to be on thisrevenge tour this whole time.
Ellie's going to be on herrevenge tour.
But you're like, why iseverybody so mad?

Speaker 2 (38:41):
Why is everybody?
I don't know why.
I just thought of that, but Iwas like, because this whole
time I'm consumed by my ownknowledge of seeing photos and
this, that and the other thing,I have not been able to square
like man.
They're in Seattle.
How do you navigate the Joelstuff?
Give it enough time to letPedro Pascal earn his paycheck

(39:05):
and keep him around but also getEllie and Dina into Seattle.
I couldn't until like literallyjust now, I was like I don't
know how you square those twothings.
Start them there.

Speaker 1 (39:15):
Put them there.
Put them there and don'texplain why they're there.
You really want to get active.
To start this show, you putEllie you know what you could do
out of the gate.
I just don't know how it helps.
Jesse's character is the onlyone that gives me fear, for you
really want to get active early.
You do that.
Ellie versus Abby fight in thefirst episode and then you try

(39:39):
to break that thing down of whythese two are just vehemently
hate each other for for thiswhole thing, and so starts the
cycle of violence.
And it's the whole thing.
Cycles, a lot of cycles.
You don't know where they start.
I think that would be aninteresting theme to play on of
like we don't know where thisall started until the end oh,
that's interesting, wow, and youdon't even need to necessarily
do the Jesse thing.

(39:59):
Yeah, you don't need to killJesse there.

Speaker 2 (40:01):
No, you can start them in that boiler room and
they're just throwing hands andyou're like what is happening?
Where's Joel?
Yeah, where's Joel?
Oh man, that's reallyinteresting.
I would love that.
I don't know if that's whatthey're gonna do.

Speaker 1 (40:19):
But no, I don't think caitlin deaver took her
wheaties yet.
I think next season she's gonnabe yoked.

Speaker 2 (40:24):
But that's a really cool idea, like you just start
them in the middle of the fightand you're like what is
happening and then you juststart right throwing, throwing
flash.
Everyone gets a flashback.
Yeah, it's a.
I mean, that's a really man.

Speaker 1 (40:37):
That's really interesting, huh, yeah yeah, I
can see that you ever seenmanchester by the sea before.
That movie's told non-linearly.
That's probably one of thebetter movies that's told
non-linearly, so hard to do itis.
It's one of the most difficultscreen right, though.

Speaker 2 (40:52):
That's why not every movie tried it, the witcher
tried it, yeah, which you triedit in season one and it was very
confusing it.

Speaker 1 (40:57):
It's tough Atomic Blonde is done nonlinearly, or
Atomic Blonde starts at thebeginning of the third act,
which I think is a smart thingto do.
Why not do the same thing?
You start them in the movietheater Like we were just joking
about it.
You don't end them.
Maybe you start them in themovie theater and then, like you
know, they have their fight andthen you know Abby's like I

(41:18):
never want to see your faceagain, and then it just jumps
back to the beginning back toJackson Eight months earlier.

Speaker 2 (41:25):
Eight months earlier, or whatever, yeah, however,
long.

Speaker 1 (41:27):
I never want to see your face again.
Why, why, why.

Speaker 2 (41:39):
The crowd said do it.
That'd be a really cool way todo it.
I do.
Yeah, I think some of thatSeattle stuff is going to end up
front-loaded for some reason,because you can't do it the way
that the game did it and expectpeople to just be okay with it.
It's an Abby problem.

Speaker 1 (41:49):
That's the thing.
It's an Abby problem.

Speaker 2 (41:51):
So I think, if you start, if you do something in
Seattle, it's the whole pointabout your credible villain.

Speaker 1 (41:56):
You set your villain up to be credible from the jump
and then this show's job for therest of those rest of six
episodes is to be like waitAbby's actually not the villain.
Maybe Joel was the villain thewhole time Question mark.
Maybe there's no villain inthis thing at all.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
No, I mean the most villainous character that you
get in Last House, part II, isIsaac.

Speaker 1 (42:16):
Is it Isaac or is it the Seraphites?

Speaker 2 (42:19):
I mean they're both kind of two sides of the same
coin, Same coin yeah.
I was going to go back to yourDina point and kind of like
dovetailing off my Owen point.
I think they need to positionOwen and Dina as kind of two
sides of the same coin, to kindof ground.

Speaker 1 (42:32):
They're grounding forces.

Speaker 2 (42:34):
Because Owen, again that's one of like, not my
complaints about part two, but Ithink that character could have
stood for a little more oomph.

Speaker 1 (42:41):
I think also, owen being like this, you know, like
this he needs to have this likea further connection to her
father as well too.
So when she looks at Owen, shethinks of her father, she thinks
of the goodness of humanity andhow she doesn't have that
because that's the problem,that's the like, it's not an
abby problem, but it's an abby'screw problem.

Speaker 2 (43:00):
Like a lot of those characters are pretty
undercooked.
Yeah, yep, um, which is notanyone's fault, it's just you
know, you only have so much timeto tell a story.
But I'm hoping the show, weirdlyenough, even though like hour
wise, it might work out like youmight put more hours into the
game that you put into the show,or like character wise, because
like 90 of the video game isthe hours spent is playing the

(43:23):
game like it's gameplay you knowwhat I mean whereas, like, the
show is obviously like, if youwant to consider it like a video
game, like 100 cinematics yeah,you know, there's no gameplay
element, so you can spend a lotmore time with these other
characters and kind of cook themup a little bit more, right um,
you know, and and a lot ofthese wlf characters have

(43:43):
interesting backstories yeah,like, uh, mel being mel being
pregnant, it's a.

Speaker 1 (43:48):
It's a good counter to dina being pregnant as well
too.
There's point to the both ofthem being pregnant at the same
time and abby's restraintagainst dina later in that game.
And look what ellie did, andagain, that's why I'll preach
this to the end of the day.
That's why perspective isanything.
Ellie, to their perspective,just came in and murdered Mel.
That group would be equally asrightfully so, angry at what she

(44:09):
did, just to the point where,for us, if Ellie's our point of
view, obviously Dina was aboutto be murdered.
So you hate Abby, but likeEllie killed Mel, like who was
pregnant, like, and Ellie knewafter she did it as well too.
And again we.
I don't know why I just thoughtabout this, thinking about the
third season, and because theSanta Clara stuff was gonna

(44:31):
dominate probably the most ofthe third season, I don't know
why I was thinking about, likeyou start that season with Ellie
sitting in the water at the endof the game.
Like you start it right there,she's just sitting in the water.
That's the opening shot to thethird season.
It's the closing shot to thethird season as well, to third
and five.
I don't think you get the lastof us for three seasons.
You probably got to do more.

Speaker 2 (44:52):
Yeah, I mean that's.
I mean I guess that's also thethey haven't said that the third
season is going to be in thefinal season.
They just said it's getting athird season, um, and we know
that it's going to be anotherseven episode continuation of
the last of us, part two, Um, sowe don't, we don't know and I
think that's that's cool, likeI'm glad that we don't know also
um, you think logic's going togame in another season,

(45:22):
hopefully, hopefully he shows up.
It's the most importantcharacter you can bring from the
game to the, to the show.
I mean just from a pure, Iguess just action standpoint too
.
I'm really curious to see thereaction to the seraphites yeah
just just from a, just from anaction perspective because,
they're in the, they'rehorrifying they suck, they suck
to fight.

Speaker 1 (45:40):
Oh my God, I hate fighting them.

Speaker 2 (45:41):
Man, they come out of nowhere, nowhere, yep.

Speaker 1 (45:43):
You hear that one whistle.

Speaker 2 (45:45):
It's terrifying, you're like hello, absolutely
horrifying.
None of the environments youfight them in are ever well lit,
no.
So I'm just curious from thatperspective how they do that.
And Craig Mazin, curious fromthat perspective, like how they
do that.
Um, because you can draw, youcan, and craig mazen, obviously,
coming off of this, coming offof chernobyl, is a master of,
yes, suspense, yep, um, so I'mcurious to see because you know,

(46:07):
I did some, did some digginginto directing and writing of
the season.
Craig mazen's pen was in everyscript of every episode of this
season.
Um, which I think is cool, um,he's directing episode one of
this season, so he's directingthe premiere, much like he did
last season and we all know howinsane that opening to that
premiere was.
That first episode has a saucein it that lets you.

(46:30):
You know, all the credit in theworld to all the directors of
season one, but that firstepisode has, like there's some
hardware in the cabinet of theman who directed this episode
there's levels to this.
So I'm really curious and I'mjust knowing his background.
I'm very curious to know whatis going to be in this first
episode, given where he comesfrom, like given his what he

(46:54):
directs or has.
Obviously he's directed likecomedy stuff in the past, but
the last few years have beenrelegated.
He's done this kind of likethriller, suspense type stuff.
So that's also makes me curiousto see what he's got cooked for
this episode.
And then Neil Druckmann isdirecting episode six.

(47:15):
I don't know if you can gleam alot from that of seeing where
Druckmann's being deployed.

Speaker 1 (47:23):
You know what it's going to be and you know what.
I think they're going to holdJoel's death to the last episode
, which I guess isn't an insanepoint.
It's going to be the flashbackepisode of them going to the
museum.
That makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 2 (47:34):
That makes a lot of sense.
So episode 6, we don't know thetitles of any of these episodes
besides this one.
Episode one is going to betitled future days um episodes.
All the other episodes don'thave their titles out um neil
druckman's directing episode six.
That was co-written by druckman, hayley gross who co-wrote the
game last of us part two, andcraig mason, so that that trio

(47:56):
co-wrote the final two episodesof the season.

Speaker 1 (47:59):
You know what you could do to my point, if episode
six because it just makes sensethat if Druckmann's going to
write it it's going to be it'seither going to be because last
season he did Left Behind itcould be the Isaac episode, like
an Isaac-centric AbbyIsaac-centric episode, because
that's a big portion of thisthat we didn't talk about.
Like, he seems very villainousin this, seems like it captured,

(48:23):
one of the seraphites is justtorturing them.
You know what you could do.
If you're gonna do the museumpiece, you could do the abby and
her father patrolling aroundseeing that zebra is like a.
They're like two, again to thepoint, the two sides of the same
coin in the same episode.
So it humanizes everybody.

Speaker 2 (48:37):
Before we get to the finale, yeah, yeah, I think
there, I think there is a lot to.
Maybe not the directorallocation, but the writing
allocation.
I think that trio of druckman,gross and mazen co-writing the
final two episodes, kind of, Ithink, scores, scores, points in
your favor that they're gonnahold the joel thing till the end

(48:58):
of the season because I justthink druckman and gross, having
co-written the second game,would kind of want their pens on
that scene.
You know not that it's not thatthey don't trust craig mazen,
because of course they do, but Ijust think that they would.
You know, it's kind of like thelike I'm willing to die on my
sword for this type deal.
So like, hey, if we're gonnaadapt that scene we want you

(49:22):
know we wrote the game it shouldbe it should be our pens that
are on those scripts for forthat, for those scenes.
So, um, having that that triowriting the final two episodes
makes me think that you'reprobably right.
But at least the, the actualact of Joel's death, will occur
in episode seven.
Um, whether or not we get tothat scene and that stage

(49:46):
earlier, I guess, remains to beseen.
Right, um, so, yeah, I mean,let's talk.
I guess we can talk about BellaRamsey a little bit.
Um, can we kind of talk aboutPedro a little bit and kind of
where Joel is that and wherehe'll be going this season?
We kind of talked about Pedro alittle bit and kind of where
Joel is at and where he'll begoing this season.
I think we've beat that horseto death, Come on, man.

(50:06):
So Bella Ramsey?
Not through any of her owndoing, but I feel like a lot of
people feel like she's got a lotto prove this season.
For what?
Because she doesn't look old, Iguess.
Give me a break.

Speaker 1 (50:18):
Give me a break.
She doesn't, I guess.
Give me a break, give me abreak.

Speaker 2 (50:20):
She doesn't look angry enough.

Speaker 1 (50:22):
Give me a break, give me an absolute break.
This is going to be my, this isgoing to be in defense of Bella
Ramsey and their just absoluteability that they have.
I mean, did we just ignoreepisode eight of the Last of Us
season one?
Did that just never happen?
How everybody was like thisperformance isn't good.
Did that just never happen?
She has the mean streak and wetalked about that before the

(50:45):
mean streak that Ellie has whenshe goes into the second game.

Speaker 2 (50:50):
I mean, it's not even seeing her in the Last of Us,
but seeing her in Thrones, whenshe plays little Lyanna Mormont
and she's commanding this roomof grown A-men you know what I
mean and she fights a giant.

Speaker 1 (51:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:06):
Kills said giant and is angry and defiant and has
fire about her.

Speaker 1 (51:12):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (51:13):
I didn't need to see her in the Last of Us before I
understood why she was cast, andthen she was phenomenal in the
first season.

Speaker 1 (51:22):
I find it absolutely absurd.
I find it absolutely absurdthat anybody has any reservation
about her for this season andshe didn't in the first season,
in the first game.

Speaker 2 (51:30):
Ellie never needed that type of fire.
She has it, she throws it out,in the form of her humor,
basically.
But now it's kind of channeledin a different way and I don't
think there's no reason to thinkthat Bella Ramsey can't get
there Right and at the end ofthe day she can't help her

(51:51):
appearance, she can't help thatshe's youthful looking.

Speaker 1 (51:54):
There's a different conversation that goes with that
.
Yeah, that I don't even want toget into because it's just.
It shows you how disgustingthat you know people and men can
be.
But I don't even want to get tothere because it's just.
It's a disgusting thing thatpeople I've heard, I've
literally physically seen withmy own eyes and the internet
complain about so I mean from aperformance standpoint, I think

(52:15):
I'm very, very excited to seehow she's about to have probably
one of the best TV performancesfor this season.
I don't even have concern aboutit.
I have concern about nobody onthis cast.
I feel like everyone on thiscast is going to be phenomenal.
Out of everybody, gabriel Luna.
I'm really keen to see what hedoes this season.

Speaker 2 (52:35):
We're going to see a lot more of him.

Speaker 1 (52:36):
And then Isabella Marced the two of them I really
want to see what he does thisseason.
And then Isabella Mar said thetwo of them I really want to see
a lot out of.
And then Caitlin Deaver is Abby.
I think again was such aninspired choice and it was there
, but when I heard her voice Iwas like, oh yeah, that that's
Abby, Like that's actually her.

Speaker 2 (52:50):
Yeah.
So you know, like I said, fromBella Ramsey perspective, like
I'm just excited to kind of likehow the game does it, where I'm
excited to kind of see her kindof take the wheel and kind of
take over as our protagonist.
Obviously, pedro Pascal isgoing to be in this.
I imagine he's going to be inthis more than he was in the

(53:10):
game yeah, it's Pedro Pascal.
I'm willing to bet you're goingto see a lot more of Joel in
this season of the show than youdid in the Last of Us Part II
the game.
I just I would imagine.
But I think they're going to dowhat the Last of Us Part II did
and make Bella Ramsey andCaitlin Dever basically the main
characters of this.
And yeah, I mean going to yourGabriel Luna point about Tommy.

(53:34):
Tommy, like I said, I think thedecision to make Maria pregnant
looms large over Tommy's storygoing into the Last of Us Part 2
or Season 2, because that is atether that he didn't have in
the game.
So it makes his decision to dowhat he does a little more

(53:55):
interesting, yeah, and I'mcurious to see how that plays
out, right?

Speaker 1 (53:59):
I think his character has so much left to say too, as
and that's gonna.
That excites me a lot, andagain it gives it an extra
dimensionality that he now has ason.
And now this son knows joel andmaria knows joel and maria
knows, you know, joel'ssurrogate daughter, like all
these things are gonna, you know, be key factors.
And maria is not incapable aswell too.

(54:20):
That's one of my favorite parts.
Maria's not an incapable humanbeing.
I think they're going to playthat up a little bit too.
Again, now that I'm thinkingabout it, looking at the trailer
, looking back, that assault onJackson, whatever that's going
to be, whatever episode that's,that whole thing's gonna be.
That's probably gonna be thehuge.
What episode of of house of thedragon last season was the one,

(54:42):
um, where agon got burned todeath?

Speaker 2 (54:44):
or near death.
I think it was episode four.

Speaker 1 (54:47):
Yes, episode four.
I feel like that's gonna bevery similar where, like this is
like you guys have been waiting.
This is the big action setpiece full episode of like
jackson's under attack yeah,that'd be cool, because we
didn't really get it in seasonone got it a little bit in
episode six or sorry episodefive.
Five yeah with Henry.

Speaker 2 (55:07):
Yeah, a little tiny, yeah, a little mini skirmish
right of like a horde ofinfected that kind of just
overrun that little, I thinkthey were cognizant of some
things.

Speaker 1 (55:16):
I think they were cognizant of like and again like
, I still adore season one ofthis show and like I love the
approach they took to theinfected.
But again, scale grows.
If your show grows, it's justthe natural progression and this
is going to be it'sunderstanding of that.
So, action wise, it looksincredible.
Just the set pieces and thesets that they built.
Like, season 1 was alreadymasterful.

(55:38):
Season 2, I don't know how youlook better than Season 1 did.
Season 1 visually looksincredible.
Season 2 looks even better,which is insane.
So I can't wait to see it.
The second game to your pointyou always talk about this how
technically sound that secondgame is.
It's one of the smoothest gamingexperiences you could ever have
.
I don't want to call it ashooter, but like a it's an

(56:01):
action game it's one of thesingle best gameplays you can
have it's mechanically nearlyflawless you've seen people
running on the internet.
They do their speed runs.
It's the way they were able tocreatively do their you can play
that game any way.

Speaker 2 (56:17):
It's crazy and that's a testament.
Were able to creatively dotheir.
You can play that game any waythat you want to.
It's crazy.
That's a testament not to gettoo bogged down in talking about
the game, but it's a testamentto how mechanically sound the
game is, how ridiculouslyintuitive the level design is,
that you can pretty much playthe game however you want.
If you want a running gun, youcan run and gun.

(56:38):
If you want to do stealth, onlyyou can pretty much play the
game however you want, like youcan.
If you want to run and gun, youcan run and gun.
If you want to do stealth, onlyyou can do stealth only.
If you want to rely on liketraps in the environment, you
can do that Like it's.
That game doesn't get enoughcredit for its intuitiveness and
its level design.
So, yeah, I mean, that's,that's all I wanted to say.
Um, I mean I guess we couldtalk a little bit about just the

(56:59):
early reviews that have comeout.

Speaker 1 (57:02):
Yes, let's get after it.

Speaker 2 (57:03):
It's been pretty good , not kind of you know I'm not
sugarcoating or kind of just insummation, people have been
really really high, like criticswho have seen I guess they've
seen the entire season, thesecritics, it sounds like.

Speaker 1 (57:20):
Yeah, I know, people saw all seven episodes, which is
insane.

Speaker 2 (57:24):
Yeah, they say a couple things.
Challenging expansion thatretains its predecessor's superb
performance and similitude,sets a new standard,
post-apocalyptic television atits peak.
Reviewers played action,sequences, direction,
performances, production, designand writing, though some
criticized pacing and considerthe story incomplete Because it

(57:45):
is Critics.
Critics, probably not Critics,understandably, probably not
familiar with the Last of Us.
Part 2, the video game.
To understand that this is Part1 of Part 2, right?
So you know I'm bracing forthose Kind of critiques, saying
like, oh well, they left off ona cliffhanger.

(58:05):
Yeah, yeah, it's going tobecause, because they're not
telling the you know the wholestory of the second game within
the confines of the season.
So but yeah, I mean I meancritically, it seems to be
reviewing very, very well, sowe'll see.
Yep, I think yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:23):
I mean Any like, not weird, but like any like outside
of the box.
Let's do this.
Any cold opens you want for theseason.

Speaker 2 (58:34):
I want you to get creative Because obviously
episode one and two wereextremely creative.
Yeah, I think I don't know ifit's necessarily creative, but I
want to see like I want to seethe Seraphite thing.
I want to see like I want tosee the Seraphite thing.
I want to see how that starts.
I'd be cool if they told thewhole Seraphite story through
cold opens.

Speaker 1 (58:48):
That would be really cool.
The whole WLF versus Seraphitething would be really insane.

Speaker 2 (58:53):
Like if they told the Seraphite story just through
cold opens.
Like you just get a little bitof lore at the beginning of
every episode of like what'sgoing on with them and then like
, maybe by the time you get tothem in present day, like
they're not, they're not who thelike the cold opens have built
them up to be and then by thetime you get to their actual

(59:16):
reveal, it's they're like,completely like, this is not
what I thought this was at all.

Speaker 1 (59:22):
Yeah, what I want to see is I want to see the horror
of, not day one, I want to seethe horror of day two.
So how you use that is I wantyou to follow.
You got Jeffrey right.
You use Jeffrey right.
You use the horror of whathappened on day two of the
outbreak and you have Jeffreyright Be this military leader

(59:42):
and happened on day two of theoutbreak.
And you have Jeffrey Wright bethis military leader and you
have him be the one that he'sworking for Fedra out of, not
Fed they didn't know it wasFedra yet, but he's working for
the military in one of thesecold opens and obviously that
develops into, you know, himtaking WLF.
But I just want, I just want tosee Jeffrey, jeffrey Wright as,
just as Isaac, in this coldopen and it's just like the
terror of day two, like theabsolute terror of what's

(01:00:03):
happening, just like you know Ireally love.
I wanted to.
I want to find a calm one too,because obviously the opening to
episode one is a very calm oneof like everyone's fine, unless
the earth gets a little warmerand everybody is watching like
huh.

Speaker 2 (01:00:16):
And then everything's not fine.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm reallycurious to see if they keep that
mechanic of the cold opens,Because they kind of they just
stopped doing them like midwaythrough the first season, yeah,
so it just felt like they weredoing it as like a I don't know
like a stage setter, which Ithink the season could benefit
from.
Mm-hmm, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
It adds to the realism of the whole thing, and
that's what I'm thinking of.
And that's what I'm thinking of, like, obviously we saw it from
a scientific perspective.
I want to see it in season twofrom a military perspective.

Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
That's interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:00:46):
Yeah, like how the military immediately responded
to the end of the world.
Like what is?
Like obviously I talked aboutParadise Like we saw it from
like a world leader perspective,like an American world leader
perspective, like I want to seethe end of the world through
like a military perspective.
I want to see the end of theworld through a military
perspective.

Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
You know what I want to see.
Now that I'm thinking about it,I want to see Fallout of the
hospital.

Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
That would be again.
You want to talk about settinghorror for, like I said, people
are rolling into the hospitaland people are getting more
violent and more aggressive andeverybody's like, oh, you know
what would be insane.
Maybe you put Abby's dad in ahospital in this cold open, and
have him, just you know, doingall the things and just
everything's just going up insmoke and he finds a way out

(01:01:28):
after everything.

Speaker 2 (01:01:29):
Yeah, because obviously abby wasn't born by
then yeah so that would bereally interesting so I want to
see that, I'd like to see some.
I'd like to see some like Iwant to see some reaction to
Joel's decision, maybe somefallout of it yeah, like I want
to see, like what, what happenedto, not the world, but what

(01:01:51):
happened to, like the Fireflies,you know?

Speaker 1 (01:01:54):
that was their one big fight was to find the cure
like.

Speaker 2 (01:01:58):
What is the like?
What's?
What's the repercussions forthat decision beyond just
Personal, which we never reallyexploit In the game?
We don't know what the effecton the greater world is Because
of what Joel did, but how many?

Speaker 1 (01:02:14):
people knew.
I mean they can explore that.
How many people knew that thiswas like?
Because Marlene's dead?
Marlene was the leader of theFireflies at that time.
I mean you could conceivablywhip up a survivor.
Yeah, well, it's the nurses.
He doesn't kill the nurses,yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:02:30):
And then just seeing the devastation that he ushered
on that hospital.
You get it a little bit in thegame.
Abby walks that corridor.

Speaker 1 (01:02:41):
But it's more personal, it's like yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:02:43):
But you don't see 50 bodies shooting throughout this
hospital, being like oh Jesus,and then you don't get the kind
of repercussion on the world asa result of that decision.
Right, like, maybe you havesomeone throw in there, like you
know, have someone in thehospital, just go in there and
just be like man.
This was our only shot.

(01:03:04):
Now we're back to square one orsomething like that there's.

Speaker 1 (01:03:08):
There's not even back to square one.
There is no square.
There's no other human being onthis planet that we know that
happened to yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:03:15):
So maybe you double down on that like maybe, and
then you're just left sittingthere like oh shit, you know
what?
You know what I mean?
You're like oh God.

Speaker 1 (01:03:23):
I mean, the argument always goes with this game of
like there was Joel Wright forwhat he did and like.
The other half of the argumentis just like how would they have
mass produced this cure?
Like how would they have, yeah,logistics of it?

Speaker 2 (01:03:34):
How could it have worked?
But I mean my argument againstthat is always like you'll never
know.
Now, yeah, you know what I mean.
He took that away and you know.
It's not even a matter it'smicro and macro levels of right
and wrong, because anyone inJoel's position would have done
what he did?

Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
You saw Druckmann, they tested it when he was
talking about season one.
They said they had gamers playthe game and then they were like
it was like a split of peoplethat said, like Joel is right,
Joel is wrong.
And then they had parents playthe game and every single parent
said Joel was right for what hedid.
Like there you go, Like thereit is for you.

Speaker 2 (01:04:12):
Yeah but I would like to see some fallout of that,
because I think that again wouldput the viewer in a position
being like oh, you know what Imean.
Again would put the viewer in aposition being like oh, you
know what I mean.
Like man, he made that decision, you know, I understood it.
But at the same time now I'msitting with the fact that he
potentially ended allopportunity for this to just be

(01:04:33):
over.

Speaker 1 (01:04:33):
Yeah, he might have ended the human race, just point
blank.

Speaker 2 (01:04:36):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
So I mean that's anotherinteresting thing that I would
like to see, like maybe theytell that, maybe they tell that
in this first episode, maybethis first episode deals with
that, like shows shows theaftermath of joel's rampage and
just being like, oh shit, right,you know what I mean.
And maybe we keep going back tothat moment, like maybe we do
like a micro macro level of likethis was his effect on the

(01:05:00):
world, but this was also hiseffect on abby, right, you know?
I mean, like I think that wouldbe a really interesting.
The abby stuff to me is themost interesting.
Yes, stuff in this entire.

Speaker 1 (01:05:12):
It's the biggest bang or bust that you can ask for
and the whole seasonstorytelling the whole season
rides on yeah is, it is if thiscan work.
Right, which, you know, basedon a lot of reviews, because I
do think some of those reviewswere probably you know, I'm sad
Joel died, you know.
So the people that are givingit good reviews, I feel like

(01:05:32):
they did a good job at whateverthey.
It feels that way.

Speaker 2 (01:05:35):
Because I feel like if it didn't, people would think
that this isn't working, likethey would think the show just
didn't work and the fact thatpeople are so high on it
seemingly is.
I think it worked.
I think, whatever alterationsthey made to how they tell
Abby's story, it feels like it'sgoing to work.
And that was always my question.

(01:05:56):
The game does it in a very gameway of the sense that, hey,
we're introducing this character, we want you to think that
she's the villain, and now we'regoing to put you in her shoes.
And that's a very interestingconundrum for a gamer, because
you're like oh, I don't likethis Because you're worried

(01:06:16):
about the game experience You'reworried about.

Speaker 1 (01:06:19):
I just did so much story.
I thought I was hunting thisperson.
Yeah, I gained so manyresources as ellie and now I
have to restart from zero.
But like I hated that storysure storytelling in a tv show
perspective.
You're like, wait, this guyreally did murder her father.

Speaker 2 (01:06:35):
Yeah, yeah, it sucks like that's horrible yeah, so I,
I, that's how the alteration toabby's story was always going
to be the most interesting thingto me.
It continues to be the mostinteresting thing to me until I
start seeing it.
And then I'm going to be like,oh okay, like we're on a good
path here.
Yeah, I mean I just I'm superkeen on how this is going to

(01:06:58):
play out.
And then I mean just going down, you know, down kind of like
the cast list, so we haveCatherine O'Hara, just kind of
highlighting some new characters.
So Catherine O'Hara is playingGail, who is Joel's therapist,
the aforementioned therapist.
She's also Eugene's wife.

Speaker 1 (01:07:12):
Yep, that's a big change from the game.

Speaker 2 (01:07:14):
Yes, Speaking of Eugene Joe.

Speaker 1 (01:07:17):
The weed farmer Eugene played by Joey Petz Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:07:20):
Joey Petz Aloniano is playing Eugene, which I think
is inspired.
Casting.

Speaker 1 (01:07:24):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:07:25):
He is not in the game .
He is mentioned.
He's seen in photographs.
He is notoriously lauded byEllie as being the first person
in human history to die ofnatural causes in this
apocalypse.
Maybe not the first person, butyou get the idea of.

Speaker 1 (01:07:40):
I like it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:41):
He got to go out, you know, on his own terms.
Right, we have a couple oforiginal characters.
We have Alana Ubach playing acharacter named Hanrahan, which
I don't know.
I don't know, is that givingSeraphite vibes to you?
It could.
She is known as she playedSerena McGuire in you.

(01:08:02):
It could.
She is known as she playedSerena McGuire in Legally Blonde
.
Yeah, so she's been in stuffInteresting the name Hanrahan
could be.
It could go either way.
She could be like a WLF person,lieutenant Hanrahan.

(01:08:24):
Or she could just be a Seraphite.
And then there's a couple otherminor characters that are
original characters, and theneveryone else is kind of like
our core cast Right.
Yeah, again, I'm really excitedto see them.
I just want to see what they dowith Abby's crew.

Speaker 1 (01:08:39):
Yeah, what's her name's playing from the game
Whoever Ellie kills.

Speaker 2 (01:08:45):
Nora.

Speaker 1 (01:08:46):
Nora.
Isn't she playing the maincharacter of Intergalactic?

Speaker 2 (01:08:53):
Yes, that actress is playing her in the show, right?
It's not.
She didn't play her in the game.

Speaker 1 (01:09:01):
Oh, that's right.
I forget the actress thatplayed her in the game.

Speaker 2 (01:09:05):
But she is going to be the main character of
Intergalactic Right.
She was also in what do I knowher?

Speaker 1 (01:09:10):
from.
She was in.

Speaker 2 (01:09:11):
Uncharted.
She was in Uncharted.
Yes, she was in Uncharted.
She was also in.
She's also been in you.
She's one of the maincharacters of of you.
Um, I know her from the hundred.
That's what I know her from too.
Um, and then, yeah, she'splaying nora in the last of us.
She is playing jade in mortalcombat too, nice, cool.
Um, yeah, so she's in this.

(01:09:31):
Who is the actress playing mel?

Speaker 1 (01:09:34):
I wonder if they're just because she wasn't that
actress in agents of shield aswell too.
The who, the actress thatplayed Mel, was in Agents of
SHIELD.

Speaker 2 (01:09:45):
She was in.
She was not in Agents of SHIELD, she was in the Runaways.
She played Gert.

Speaker 1 (01:09:50):
The actress that plays Mel.
Didn't they take the mocap fromthe woman that was in Agents of
person?

Speaker 2 (01:10:00):
They do look very similar.
I'm looking at her photo onWikipedia and she looks very
similar to the character fromthe game.
But yeah, the character playingher in the show is the
character that played Gert inRunaways Nice Channel favorite,
the Runaways.
Okay, we should review thatshow one of these days.
Yes, I would actually love todo that, if we can find it, is
it even available anymore towatch?

Speaker 1 (01:10:22):
Yes, love to do that if we can find it is even like
available anymore, like to watch.
Yes, it's on.
I think it's back on disneyplus, is it, I believe?
So I'm checking right now.
I think it's back on disneyplus.
There's a whole bunch of thingsthat we want to retroactively
review, like maybe we do theyoung adult sect of the of of
the mcu.
Yeah, we could do it.
We could do a triple MissMarvel, miss Marvel Runaways,

(01:10:42):
miss.

Speaker 2 (01:10:44):
Marvel.

Speaker 1 (01:10:45):
Cloak and Dagger, but seriously just the Cloak and
Dagger slash Runaways episode.
But man, I remember whenRunaways was coming out.
That was some good week to weektelevision.
I was locked in week to weekwhy is this show only on Hulu?

Speaker 2 (01:10:56):
question mark, you would ask yourself.
And then who else?
Oh, danny Ramirez, the Falconhimself.
Good, would ask yourself um,and then who else?
Oh, danny ramirez, the falconhimself.
Yep, um, good, good, good, uh,good couple years for him yeah,
great couple years for him too.

Speaker 1 (01:11:10):
He's an avenger now.
He's an avenger now.
He was in top gun.
He was in top gun.
Presumably gonna be in the nexttop gun it could be fan somehow
.

Speaker 2 (01:11:18):
Fanboy returned yep, of course he returned he was in
an episode of Black Mirror backin the day.

Speaker 1 (01:11:24):
I really like Danny Ramirez.
He just seems like a cool guyit's cool too.

Speaker 2 (01:11:31):
I like the oscillation of like I was in
this major motion picture.
Now I'm also in this prestigeTV show, like I'm glad that some
of these actors are not like.
No, I'm not doing a TV show,are you crazy?

Speaker 1 (01:11:41):
I'm the falcon he seems like he's always down for
a good time that some of theseactors are not like.
No, I'm not doing a TV show,Are you?

Speaker 2 (01:11:45):
crazy.
I'm the Falcon.
He seems like he's always downfor a good time.
I'm also curious because he isso likable as Joaquin Torres.
I'm curious to see him as Mannywho's not as likable.

Speaker 1 (01:11:52):
No, manny sucks, he doesn't suck.

Speaker 2 (01:11:55):
That's the other thing.
Going back to my point, maybegive some of these guys some
dimensionality, make me want tolike them.

Speaker 1 (01:12:05):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:12:06):
I don't want this to be the game situation.
The game is the game.
The game did what it did Setthem up as this antagonistic
faction.
We don't have to do that in theshow.

Speaker 1 (01:12:15):
It's going to help in the long run, because that's
one of the big points that Ialways want to make.
It's not about them being thevillains, there's no villain in
this thing.

Speaker 2 (01:12:23):
We already saw an antagonistic faction in this
series.
We saw it in season one withthe freaking the kansas city
crew.
Yeah, they were in anantagonistic faction.
Right, they were born by youknow an unfortunate event when
henry sold out like the one goodperson henry was judas henry
was the that, that guy that ledthat group.
like was the that guy that ledthat crew.
Like was the one good person inthat crew.

(01:12:44):
But, like we already saw, likea bad faction.
We don't need another badfaction.
Right, give us a faction thatlike does bad things, but also,
like some of these charactersare kind of okay.

Speaker 1 (01:12:54):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:12:55):
You know, and it's okay if you want to leave Manny
as like the loose cannon.
Yeah, Every crew needs a loosecannon, Right?
You know, I like the way thatthey're positioning, hopefully,
anyway, like they're positioningEllie's crew and Abby's crew as
like two sides of the same coin.
Yes, you have Ellie, you haveAbby, you have Dina, you have
Owen, you have Manny, you haveTommy.

(01:13:17):
Like put them, you know, putthem like across from each other
and hold the mirror up and belike we're the same you and I.

Speaker 1 (01:13:26):
It's going to help for season three because that
Santa Clara stuff is so jarringin season three.

Speaker 2 (01:13:30):
And then we haven't even talked.

Speaker 1 (01:13:38):
I mean, presumably we're not going to because I
don't think there's even a castfor him, but Lev yes.

Speaker 2 (01:13:43):
Yes, it's so integral to the Abby stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:13:44):
Who's Lev's sister as well.
Oh, I don't remember thecharacter's name, yara.
Yeah, yara and Lev, two veryimportant characters.
And again, I've always pitchedthis idea of Ellie and Abby have
to team up for the Last of Us,part III, and then somehow they
have to fight up for the Last ofUs, part 3, and then somehow
they have to fight.

(01:14:04):
Who would sign on to thisfranchise?
But none other than JonBernthal would be the antagonist
of 3.

Speaker 2 (01:14:09):
He's begging to be in this.

Speaker 1 (01:14:11):
He's begging to tell somebody something in this
franchise.
Let me tell you something.
He would be.
He would look at a clicker toits face and say let me tell you
something.
Let me tell you something, man.

Speaker 2 (01:14:21):
John Bernthal in the Last of Usuniverse would be just
sensational.
I don't know who I have to talkto to make that happen.

Speaker 1 (01:14:29):
I know Druckmann's listening, he should be, and I
know he's making the Last of Us,but stop lying, stop saying
you're focused on Intergalactic.
He's.

Speaker 2 (01:14:38):
Bernthal In this universe, oh God.

Speaker 1 (01:14:41):
Let me tell you something, man.

Speaker 2 (01:14:43):
He'd be great.

Speaker 1 (01:14:46):
He'd be great.
Imagine debating ethics in apost-apocalyptic world with Jon
Bernthal.
He'd be tremendous.
Funny enough, Debra Ann Wallwould also be phenomenal in this
universe.

Speaker 2 (01:14:56):
Yeah, that's true, but yeah, it's one of the things
that I didn't think about asmuch.
But I'm like oh yeah, theydidn't cast Lev in this season.
I think on purpose, yeah, whichagain kind of leans into where
is this going to end?

(01:15:19):
I think we've settled that itis going to end.
I think we've settled that itis going to end.
I think the story is going tobe told non-linearly, and even
more non-linearly than the gamewas Right, but in a different
way.

Speaker 1 (01:15:29):
Right, not like Abby goes and then Ellie goes, and
it's like day one, two and threeof Abby, yeah, or Ellie, day
one, two, no, it's going to belike and it's not going to be
like active sequence flashbacksequence no going to be like
active sequence, flashbacksequence, active see, I think
we're going to be putting thesecharacters in different spots in
the timeline and jumping aroundright and trying to figure out.

Speaker 2 (01:15:48):
I think they're going to try and build the season
more as like a mystery yeah,it's going to be.

Speaker 1 (01:15:52):
Any it's going to be anywhere from the second they
get yeah, like five years later,day one in jackson to seattle,
day three, and anything canhappen in that time, with the
occasional flash flashback tothe scene with Abby's father and
her, like before DeJol andEllie stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:16:10):
Yes, like the deterioration of that
relationship.

Speaker 1 (01:16:14):
And how strong that relationship was before that too
.

Speaker 2 (01:16:18):
Yeah, no, I think all of that makes total sense and I
think really it's the only wayto do it.
And if they can do it and do itwell, you're talking about like
a pretty, probably a prettyspecial season of television.
Yes, because, man, if you cantell a non-linear story in a
coherent way and make it makesense, like that's it's, it

(01:16:39):
doesn't really get it muchbetter than that.
You know what I mean it reallydoesn't.
You're just sitting there andyou're like my head is spinning.
And then again just the Abbystuff.
Man, just make her.
You don't have to make herlikable, because I think Abby
inherently is likable.
It's the way she's presentedthat just makes it a tough climb

(01:17:03):
for not the character, but atough climb for the, the player,
to accept her as likable yeahbecause you just want you want
you it's.
It's brilliant in the way thatthe game does it, in the sense
that, like it puts you literallyin ellie's shoes.
Right, you're like I don't wantto play as this character, I

(01:17:24):
want to kill this character.
She killed joel.
Why are you making me play asher?
You know so in in a sense, thegame does a really great job of
that.
It puts you in ellie's positionand you are angry and you just
want to get your hands on her.
And then the even better partof what the you just want to get
your hands on her, and then theeven better part of what the

(01:17:45):
game does is you get your handson her and then she just kicks
your ass again and then she letsyou go and then she says you
know what?

Speaker 1 (01:17:55):
No big deal.

Speaker 2 (01:17:55):
She kicks you on the ass and sends you back to
freaking Montana, and thenyou're like, well, I can't let
that go.

Speaker 1 (01:18:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:18:03):
But then you, and then it suddenly transitions you
into Abby's shoes and you'relike I don't, I don't want to be
here, but you are here, but I'mstuck here, sorry.
And then, because that's wherethe love stuff comes in, and
that the love stuff isultimately what kind of grounds
you to Abby and gives you areason to want to see her keep

(01:18:24):
going, whereas I think the showhas to do that much, much
earlier.
You have to want to be actively, maybe not rooting for her, but
you have to at least understandher and you have to at least
understand her perspective,instead of her coming in as this
demon Right who just flips yourentire world upside down, like

(01:18:47):
you but her world was slippedupside down.
That's the point we're trying tomake well, yeah, exactly
exactly, sell that right andagain you.

Speaker 1 (01:18:56):
I think they need to make it apparent and this is
again, it's to my point it'slike, like it's why you cast
Timothy Chalamet as PaulAtreides, it's why you cast
Pedro Pascal as Joel, like whenthe person that's like morally
on the fence does the bad halfof the fence goes on the bad
half of the fence, you get thelikable actor to be the person
to do it.
So you do have to present Joel.
You know you want to talk aboutthe perspective thing.

(01:19:18):
You have to make Joel a villainof some sort this season
because naturally we're not.
The rubber band's not going topull that much for him as it
would for Abby.
Just it's going to snap.
Like Joel, it's going to pulland it's still going to be
intact, like that's kind of howyou got to present it.
Like Joel is not thisaltruistic, good person.
No, he made one of the mostselfish acts in human history
and you know, conceivably,partially could have ended the

(01:19:40):
whole human race.

Speaker 2 (01:19:42):
Yeah, yeah, and I mean, you know, I don't think he
makes any mistake about thateither, I don't think he.
But it does seem like, you know,through those therapy sessions
at least we're getting at leastone of them.
There is like a tinge of regretin his voice when he speaks

(01:20:04):
about it, right, I mean he'slike I saved her, but like his
voice, his voice cracks a littlebit when he says it, like the
weight of that decision clearlyweighs on him.
Yeah, in a way that thedecision doesn't weigh on him in
the game, it's the lying thatweighs on him, like the line
that ellie is what really weighson him, more so than the actual

(01:20:25):
decision itself.
Right, I would like to see himgrapple with the decision itself
on top of the lie.
You know, right, for a guythat's already grappled with so
much.
You know, one of my favoritescenes in that last season is
his just kind of like breakdownto tommy.
Yeah, when, like it reallyhumanizes him, when he's like

(01:20:47):
I'm not as strong as I used tobe I can't freaking hear out of
one side of my head.
You know I I'm not.
I'm not built for this.
I'm not built to protect her.
That's my biggest fear and it'sa really freaking Again when
you're talking about alterationsto the plot.
It's one of the smartest ones.

Speaker 1 (01:21:08):
It contextualizes the Sarah stuff as well too, and it
hardens it even further to belike I can't In the game.
It's like I can't lose anotherdaughter again.
But he's like I physicallycan't lose another daughter
again.
But he's like I physicallycan't lose another daughter and
emotionally can't lose anotherdaughter again.
I got presented the secondchance.
I'd rather you see this through.
I love you.

(01:21:29):
You can do this.
You need to get her there andTommy's like.
This isn't my journey.
I have Maria now I also have myfamily.
Go protect yours.
That's where we're both atright now.

Speaker 2 (01:21:40):
Yeah, and then protect yours.
That's where we are.
That's where we're both atright now.
I mean Tommy was ready torelent too which is another
important thing about hischaracter as much as he was
ready to tell Joel you know,kind of like you're on your own
he was ultimately going torelent and take Ellie to the
college, right which I mean.
All history I don't know.

(01:22:00):
I wonder what that story lookslike, the one where Tommy
actually Takes Ellie the rest ofthe way instead of Joel.

Speaker 1 (01:22:07):
Tommy would have Saw Marlene and been like Well, this
is my old, long last pal, maria.

Speaker 2 (01:22:16):
Jesus Christ Joel.
Jesus Christ Joel.
Oh, we're not going to get thatman yeah, oh, we're not going
to get that man.
Yeah, I'm really excited forwhat the next seven weeks looks
like.

Speaker 1 (01:22:31):
To be honest, Maybe I'm excited because I get the
Last of Us back, but the samething's going to happen.
I'm going to get real sad awhole bunch of weeks this year.

Speaker 2 (01:22:40):
Yeah, yeah, there's a lot less like in the last
post-part 2.
There's a lot less jarringinstant, holy shit, sad moments.
It's more like these drawn outsequences, whereas part 1 had
Tess, henry and Sam, bill andFrank in the game anyway Bill

(01:23:02):
and Frank and Bill and Frank inthe show too, but there were
these individual moments whereaspart two is more like not the
nostalgia, but it's seeing Joeland Ellie's relationship kind of
deteriorate, seeing Abby andher father.
It's all these moments of man,things could have been okay,
right, you know what I mean.
Things could have been okay,right, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:23:22):
Like things could have been fine and then they
just weren't I mean the bigpiece, like I said, like, and I
think, if, if the first season,what's the first season's like
big thing?
It's endurance, survive, andit's the humanity and the
endurance and the surviving.
Season two, I think, is it'slike the ideology of perspective
and how important that is andthen and then.
Well, I think season three isthe actual cycle of violence,

(01:23:46):
cause Ellie has every chance tostop, she has every chance to
stop and she can, she can.
And then once one's provoked,the other one's provoked and
it's never going to stop.
And then, like I said, dina'sthe one that kind of just like
no, it said, dina's the one thatkind of just like no, it's fine
, like it's, it's okay, like shepulls, like the goodwill
hunting like it's not your fault, like it's okay.

Speaker 2 (01:24:06):
And there's degrees of escalation too in part two,
like joel is obvious.
Well, I guess you could argueabby's dad is the inciting is
the inciting one right rightinciting one like abby's dad
begets joel right joel begets.
I guess the next person thatdies is Manny.
Right, manny begets, or yeah,manny begets.
Where does it start?
Well, abby kills Joel.

(01:24:27):
Well, joel kills Abby's dad.
Well, joel kills Abby's dad.
Abby kills Joel, abby killsJoel.
Tommy kills Manny.

Speaker 1 (01:24:34):
Well, before that, ellie kills uh what's her oh?
Nora.
Ellie kills Nora and she killsthe one guy with the headphones
on that's listening to the musicbefore.
Yeah, Kills him.
Abby kills Jesse.

Speaker 2 (01:24:46):
Abby kills Jesse, tommy kills Manny, tommy kills
Manny, then Ellie kills Mel,ellie kills Mel, and then Yara
kills Isaac.
Abby has the opportunity tokill Ellie.

Speaker 1 (01:25:03):
Yep, and she lets her go, but then again and then
Ellie comes back it never stops.
It never stops.
I think there's going to besome again.
I hope they start season threeand end season three with the
exact same shot of Bella Ramseysitting in the water Like, oh no
, bro, I'll never forget when Iplay.
I'll never.
I'm never.
I think I'm gonna accept it nowgameplay purposes.

(01:25:23):
I don't know if I I'm never,story-wise, like going out of my
way to play the last of us parttwo again.

Speaker 2 (01:25:28):
I still have never played it for the back.
I can't play that once is.

Speaker 1 (01:25:32):
I was kicking through the first game over the last
few months.
I I can't do it with this game.
It's not.
This gameplay is so well done.
I'm like a last of us part twotruther for lack of better term,
but like I just I can't likethat broke me, I'll be back to
it for the um, the freaking.

Speaker 2 (01:25:48):
What was that?
Like?
The survival mode?
oh, the remaster, yeah I lovethat, like that was so much yeah
like the, uh, like theroguelite, like survival mode,
where you can pick like anycharacter, not any character,
but like you have like a cast ofcharacters to pick from and
they all have like the different, like kind of like perks like
that they have.
That was really cool, um, andyeah, it's interesting like

(01:26:09):
talking about it now like thefirst one.
Technically, that kind ofbrokers, any type of piece, is
Abby, but I mean she does itfrom a place of like superiority
, like I won go home.
So, like from a place of likesuperiority right, I won go home
right.

Speaker 1 (01:26:23):
So, like you know, she stops because she gets
humanized by lev.
Lev starts to give her like ascent and again levin, levin
abby turned into joel and ellie.
It's the same and I said likethat can get carried for a game,
like you can carry thatplausibly for a whole game yeah
and then ellie gets dina's dinaand and Jesse's kid but it
doesn't change her, it doesn'thumanize her.

(01:26:46):
I wonder what a catalyst for athird game would look like.
As long as it's Jon Bernthal,I'll be happy.
As long as Jon Bernthal'sinvolved.

Speaker 2 (01:26:55):
Maybe Bernthal's like an ex-firefly when you kind of
go back to that.

Speaker 1 (01:27:01):
You go that route he could be an ex-Firefly.
He can be.
I mean, the world could startto man, I wonder.
There's so many routes you cantake.
We don't even know whathappened overseas with this
whole thing.
Like, no, we don't know whathappened and you know, there's
so much like.
The United States is a prettydecently sized country.
There's so many differentplaces.

(01:27:21):
The United States is a prettydecently sized country.
There's so many differentplaces.
We've only been to what?
Boston, pittsburgh, jackson,santa Clara, seattle In the
games.
Yeah, we haven't been anywheredown south.
We don't know what happened inthe south.
We don't know what happened onthe border.
Nobody knows what happened inthis whole thing.
Yeah, I just don't know how youwould go about it.

(01:27:42):
But maybe just if Isaac's exmilitary, maybe you positioned
Bernthal as somebody that knewIsaac and is coming back.
Maybe he takes control of WLFand they're like all out of salt
to take out Abby.
It's just how do you get Ellieand Abby on the same team?

Speaker 2 (01:27:56):
Well, that's why I think you can make him an ex
firefly and then like firefly,and then like he, he knows what
happened, yeah, he finds outthat joel's dead, and then he's
just like well, score safe.
Yeah, you know what I meanwhich fits burn dolls style.
Yeah right, I would love thatman.
I would so love john burn,though let me tell you something

(01:28:17):
let me tell you something, man,um, but I think that's it.
You have any final kind ofthoughts before we sign off and
check this episode?

Speaker 1 (01:28:25):
out.
No, I mean just be nice toeveryone.

Speaker 2 (01:28:29):
Just be a good human being.

Speaker 1 (01:28:31):
Maybe I'm going to take that route for my final
thoughts.
Is my platform to say just be agood human being Like you don't
have to come on here, go on theinternet and hide behind a
screen or hide behind anythingjust to say that you hate people
.
Like it's just not worth it.
Yeah, it's always sad as welltoo.
Um, you know, stuff that getspre-hated just never makes sense
to me as well too.

(01:28:52):
Like I'm really, really keen tosee the humanity that takes
place in the show.
It's just, it's the thing thatmakes this universe and this,
this story, so impeccablyincredible is the humanity to it
.
I think Mazin and Druckmann area heck of a duo together as
well, too, and you know, I justI can't wait.
I can wait for some things, butI can't wait to just see this
unfold and see how they execute.

(01:29:13):
Like, just as a lover of likestorytelling and film, like I
can't wait to see the executionbehind this.

Speaker 2 (01:29:18):
Yeah, I think that's my biggest thing.
My biggest kind of takeaway isI'm super keen to see how they
tell this story, in the senselike it's different from the
first season.
In the sense, like the firstseason, I was just keen to see
how it played out, because thefirst season is pretty
straightforward in how thestory's presented, how the
character's presented.
I just wanted to see how itwould look.
I wanted to see how thesemoments that I remember so

(01:29:39):
vividly from these games andthese characters just see how it
plays out in a TV live actionformat.
And it was sensational, right.
This one I'm more keen to seehow.
I'm almost more keen to see howthey alter things to make it
work Right.
And I'm super, just, superexcited to see I mean, I'm

(01:30:01):
excited to see everybody but theAbby stuff.
I want so badly for thatcharacter to be liked, because I
think there's so much to thatcharacter and so much nuance
that gets lost in the blindersfor that character, and most of
it is in how people perceive thecharacter.
Some of it is layered in how thegame told the character's story

(01:30:23):
Right, which, again, I'm nevergoing to begrudge them for it,
because I think it's a supersmart way to introduce a
character, yeah, and be like shedid all these horrible things
and you guys faced off and notonly do you not get to
immediately exact your revengeon her, you now have to play as
her and here's her story, right?

(01:30:43):
I think from a gamingperspective, it's super
interesting for a TV show.
I think you just need to makeher likable and make her a true
protagonist, instead of waitinguntil like the second to third
act of a game to be like, no,she's a protagonist now.
So I'm really excited to seethat, really excited to see all
these performances when, reallyexcited to see how pedro and

(01:31:06):
bella changed from right seasonone, and really excited to see
caitlin devere's performance asabby.

Speaker 1 (01:31:12):
I'm just really, really looking forward to that
um yeah, these performances, Ithink, are going to be
absolutely stellar yeah, um, sothat's it.

Speaker 2 (01:31:19):
That's our last of us .
Part two preview Again, youheard me say up top we littered
this episode with spoilers forthe game.
Careful, be very careful,especially over the next few
weeks, if you don't want to knowanything.
Don't let the holier-than-thougamer crowd spoil your

(01:31:39):
experience.

Speaker 1 (01:31:40):
Yes, I think that's super important.
Don't let them.
You know, and you're.
These are coming from twogamers that played this game.

Speaker 2 (01:31:46):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:31:47):
Yes, you know, don't let them spoil your experience.
Or, you know, let you believethat, like people are incapable
just because they don't like theway that people look or sound,
or just because it doesn't,people are funny.

Speaker 2 (01:32:00):
Yeah, and Just because it doesn't, people are
funny, and just don't let themalso make you feel like an idiot
for not knowing things aregoing to happen.

Speaker 1 (01:32:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:32:09):
If you want to speculate on something that
clearly isn't going to happen,don't let people ruin your
experience.
Let yourself theorize and doall the normal stuff that you
would do for a TV show or amovie.
If you don't think Joel's goingto know, if you think joel's
gonna go to seattle with ellie,like cool, you know, like I'm

(01:32:30):
not, I'm never gonna like shutyou down or like cut your, cut
your legs off for theorizing onstuff that, like I know is not
gonna happen or I know is goingto happen, like part of you know
.
That's why I always appreciatedlike hbo's, you know approach
to these sunday shows.
It's like an event right thatwe all collectively experience.
Because I know whatever happensin this first episode, the, the

(01:32:52):
gaming crowd is going to get on, get on twitter and just be
like I didn't like this, thatanother thing, or they're
ruining this storyline orwhatever.
Like chill out, let everyoneexperience this um for
themselves, regardless of theknowledge that you come with
right um, because at the end ofthe day, like an adaptation, you
kind of got to look at anadaptation as like an alternate,

(01:33:14):
almost like an alternateuniverse, you know what I mean.
Like the game, and I forget itmight have even been in
correlation to the last one.
I can't remember and I can'tremember who said it, but it's a
sentiment that I've alwaysshared and it's when you see an
adaptation of something, thesource material is the source
material.

(01:33:34):
That's always going to be there.
The game is always going to bethe game.
Nothing that happens in thisshow is ever going to change
anything that happens in thegame.
It's not like a coursecorrection, it's not a retcon.
It's truly just a retelling ora new retelling of the same
story.
If you enjoy the game more thanthe show, fine.

(01:33:57):
The game is always going to bethe game.
I know people going back to theBill and Frank thing from last
season like it ruined this andthat it didn't ruin it.
You still have.
You still have the Last of Uspart 1.

Speaker 1 (01:34:10):
Yeah you make the best point about it too.
It's like the show all it did.
I can't remember who it wasthat said it.
It was the best point that Isaw all day, because I've been
like dipping into, like justdeep dive in the last of us lord
throughout the whole day justto get myself prepared tonight.
But it's they still get the carby the end of the episode right
still, the thing still happens.

(01:34:31):
That needs to happen.
If the game truth is one of you, the game truthers, it's what
this horror?
Oh, how horrible that we gotone of the most beautiful
episodes of television out ofthat, like how horrible of a
thing that is.
That literally accentuates theactual theme of this whole.
This whole story, like that'sprobably one of the more
important episodes of thatseason, if we really want to

(01:34:52):
break it down, because it setsup the emotional core of the why
of that whole story.
That's the why it sets upjoel's thing to the end.
Joel's whole catalyst for thatthing is Frank's permission to
be the father figure to her, tobe her protector.
Bill literally gives himpermission to do it yeah, like

(01:35:14):
if Tess gets them physically onthe way Bill gets him,
emotionally on the way to be herperson.

Speaker 2 (01:35:20):
Yeah exactly, exactly and, like I said, the game will
always be there.
You always have those momentsthat the show does not override
just because it didn't adaptthose particular moments and,
conversely, heck, maybe thissecond season will do the
inverse.
Maybe people will get thesecond season and be like I
actually like this better.

(01:35:40):
You know what I mean, and ifthat's the case, great.
But the game is still a gameand the game still matters and
the game still happens.
You can't have it one way orthe other.
One doesn't negate the otherJust because you enjoy one more
or less.
Both still exist within thesame frame.
It's just a different medium oftelling it.

(01:36:01):
So that's my PSA, my closingmessage.
You still have both thingsRight.
You have the show.
If you enjoy the show, you havethe game.
If you enjoy the game.
If you enjoy both, you'reeating good Right.
So try to enjoy both, becausethey're both really high-quality
things.

Speaker 1 (01:36:19):
Yeah, what an insane concept.

Speaker 2 (01:36:23):
Maybe you should just enjoy.
So that's going to do it for usthis week.
You can follow us on Twitter atProject INF underscore pod.
You can follow us on Facebook.
You can follow us on InstagramAt the Project Infinite pod.
You can follow us on YouTubeand TikTok at the Project
Infinite podcast.
Next week Daredevil Born Again.
Season one recap.
Season finale is this comingTuesday.

Speaker 1 (01:36:43):
I'm going to call it right now.
We're also going to have afantastic four trailer breakdown
.
I can feel it.

Speaker 2 (01:36:47):
I can feel it any expectations or thoughts going
into the finale of Daredevilthis bullseye Punisher Daredevil
confrontation is going to beinsane.

Speaker 1 (01:36:58):
Just the way that.
Who's the duo that's doing theBenson and Moorhead?
Yeah, benson and Moorhead.
Just the way that they.
Who's the duo that's doing the?
Benson and Moorhead?
Yeah, benson and Moorhead.
Just the way that they'removing, especially from that
episode eight.
How stylized it was and it wassomething I was saying about
episode one like this is themost stylized thing that we've
gotten out of the MCU other thanlike Loki, and a lot of the
most stylized things have comeout of the, you know, out of the
multiversal saga.

(01:37:18):
But just the way that they'removing, that's it.
That's probably one of thebetter penultimate episodes of
television that I've seen aswell, too, and the the legwork
that they had to do to getthemselves set up, because they
literally had episodes one,eight and nine.
Yeah, um, to get them back tounderstand how crucial and how
important of a villain bullseyeis and like the absolute star

(01:37:38):
that they have with Wilson.

Speaker 2 (01:37:40):
Bethel, he's amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:37:41):
He is Menacing is like an understatement.
I would rather a menacingvillain than whatever he is.
He's terrifying.
It's insane.
So I want to see more of him.
I believe we already saw setphotos of season two of him with
the actual bullseye insignia onhis head, because he's a psycho
.
I can't wait for it.

(01:38:02):
Um so I wonder if this seasonfinale of daredevil is gonna
have like this they lose insteadof they win, like I think he's
actually gonna lose at the endof this.

Speaker 2 (01:38:12):
I think there's an element of that.
Definitely, because I thinknext season is shaping up to be
like daredevil and companyversus fisk, like versus the nc
vigilante task force.
Yes, yeah, and so we'll see howthat goes, yep.

Speaker 1 (01:38:25):
Travesty that this Spider-Man movie a hundred
percent won't be a street levelmovie which kind of extends the
story.

Speaker 2 (01:38:32):
Yeah, yeah, but I'm also curious to see how they
write around that.
You know, I think, I think nextseason will be a little, a
little more coherent and alittle more bombastic because I
think Benson and Moorhead arejust the showrunners now.
And they are, yeah, they'redoing season two like in full,
and they knew.
Just an incredible testament bythe way, to everyone involved
that they were able to kind ofFrankenstein this season

(01:38:55):
together from what it could havebeen, yep.
So, honestly, just outstandingwork, yes, to be able to patch
this together, yeah, and put outpretty, pretty high.
I mean, even the lesserepisodes of the show were still
really really great, right,right you know.

Speaker 1 (01:39:12):
But yeah, I can't because obviously john berthold
is going to come back for thisfinale and absolutely cook and
whatever happens yep, um,obviously, whatever the fight
between them, I think we'regoing to find out Foggy's alive
as well too.
We're probably going to find outthat he's alive somewhere,
because next season Foggy andKaren are probably going to be
main players next season.
Like they're not going to makethat mistake ever again.
To take them out of that, therewere two characters that made

(01:39:34):
that original show so incredible, so I think they know.
I just can't overstate howincredible the performances are
from Charlie Cox it's the bestthat he's been.
Vincent D'Onofrio it's the besthe's been as well too.
And Wilson Bethel by far thebest that he's ever been.
Yeah, he is.
Oh my God.

Speaker 2 (01:39:52):
Yeah, I mean, it's just I love the when he breaks
out and as soon as he picks upthose freaking scissors, man,
I'm like, oh, here we go, likeyou know what horrible thing is
about to happen.
Yeah, I mean, I echo yoursentiments.
I think I'm really lookingforward to this finale.
I think it feels like they'veset up like actually a coherent

(01:40:16):
penultimate into finale setup,which a lot of these Marvel
shows, for whatever reason,haven't been able to do.
Maybe Loki excluded.
Ms Marvel, I would argue.
I think has a pretty goodpenultimate to finale setup.

Speaker 1 (01:40:31):
Yeah, agatha all along also has a really good
penultimate episode.

Speaker 2 (01:40:37):
Because Agatha did it differently.
Where it was like thepenultimate was almost like the
finale.

Speaker 1 (01:40:41):
And then the finale was like an epil, where it was
like.

Speaker 2 (01:40:42):
The penultimate was almost like the finale.

Speaker 1 (01:40:43):
And then the finale was like an epilogue.
It was like this epilogueemotional payoff episode.

Speaker 2 (01:40:47):
But also it does have a lot of really revealing
sentiments in the sense man.

Speaker 1 (01:40:54):
Yeah, we have to have a conversation about Agatha
along on the Disney Plus showranking, because when we found
out that she was fleecing allthese witches for hundreds of
years, we joked about it but wekind of called it.
We said, just make her thevillain of this.
You don't have to have someMephisto, you can just make her

(01:41:17):
the villain of this show.
She was not redeemed.
No.

Speaker 2 (01:41:23):
She's not a good person.
She got lucky, yep, in thesense that she ran into a
reality warper who couldactually make the road real
Right.
Oh man, that's good stuff.
So, yeah, we'll talk aboutDaredevil Born again.
We'll see you on the other side, See you on the other side, See
on the other side of.
And yeah, we'll obviouslyprobably start next week's
episode.
Just kind of giving our quickthoughts on this first episode.

(01:41:44):
If anyone was around for uslast year with the Last of Us,
we were like that first episodewas so great and we were like I
guess we just have to do a wholeepisode on this, and then the
second episode happens and we'relike, well, I guess we on this.

Speaker 1 (01:41:57):
We did that for like five weeks.
Well, the third episodehappened and we were like is
this the best television showthat's running right now?

Speaker 2 (01:42:04):
Yeah, so we might run into that problem.
Not next week, because we willtalk about Daredevil.

Speaker 1 (01:42:10):
This podcast is encompassing of Daredevil.

Speaker 2 (01:42:12):
Yeah, this episode by the way, I forgot to say this
up top episode 150.

Speaker 1 (01:42:16):
Wow, 150 episodes insane.

Speaker 2 (01:42:19):
Glad we're talking about something we both love,
which is the last of us besidesepisode because episode 100 we
notoriously reviewed the flashmovie.
Yeah, we deserve that yeah, wedid but yeah, so we're gonna go
enjoy this first episode of lastof us, season 2 and we will see
you next week for daredevilborn again, season 1 review from

(01:42:40):
me, from the.
We're talking about the lastCareful man, the Last of Us,
part 2.
Careful.

Speaker 1 (01:42:45):
I just don't want to be dead.
There's a lot of people thatdie.
I just don't want to be dead.

Speaker 2 (01:42:48):
There are a lot of people that die From the Tommy
Miller of the podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:42:53):
All right, I'm a sharpshooter Like Steph Curry.

Speaker 2 (01:42:58):
Tommy Doobie Shoot.

Speaker 1 (01:43:00):
He do be keeping that thing on Dude.
I'm so glad they added thatlittle piece that he was in
Desert Storm.

Speaker 2 (01:43:04):
He was also Ghost Rider.

Speaker 1 (01:43:06):
I saw a clip from Agents of SHIELD.
I think I sent it to you today.
Man, we're going to get her.
Did we ever talk about Agentsof SHIELD in full?
No, we need to.
No, of the only shows thatliterally has an upward
trajectory the whole way throughup until season 5, obviously,
but literally each season getsbetter.
You don't really see that fromshows.

Speaker 2 (01:43:27):
No, my Wi-Fi is literally called the framework
because of Agent's shit, becausethe framework arc is incredible
.

Speaker 1 (01:43:36):
Man, they do the Ghost Rider arc and the
framework arc in the same seasonand they're both great, and
somehow they tie Ghost Riderback into it.
Yeah, it's awesome.
How are they moving?
And then season five comes outand I'm like there's no way it
can get better than this.
And then it did get better thanthat.

Speaker 2 (01:43:51):
Yeah, it's awesome.
Yeah, all right, we'll see younext week.
Daredevil Born Again.
Enjoy the first season or firstepisode of season two of Last
of Us.

Speaker 1 (01:44:02):
It depends on what happens.
I don't know how much it'sgoing to be an episode.

Speaker 2 (01:44:06):
We'll see.
We got about 10 minutes tillshowtime, all right, guys.
Until then, goodbye Peace.

All Episodes

150 - Revenge, Perspective, and the Cycle of Violence in The Last of Us Season 2

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Dateline NBC

Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes present: Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial

Stuff You Should Know

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}150 - Revenge, Perspective, and the Cycle of Violence in The Last of Us Season 2