154 - Superman: A History of Actors Who Wore the Cape - The Project Infinite Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's the Infinite Podcast.
Go tell your friends.
It's the Infinite Podcast, myGod, it never ends.
It's the Infinite Podcast withRob and Korka Q.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Hello everybody and welcome back to another episode
of the Project Infinite Podcast,a podcast covering the infinite
and ever-expanding multiverseof fandom, from movies, comics,
tv shows, video games.
We've got you covered.
I'm Rob, I'm here with Court,court.
We are on the precipice ofSuperman.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
Yeah, it's such a full circle moment.
I mean, you look back two yearsago, two and a half years ago
kind of, when it was announced,like it was out of the Schneider
cut, kind of you know world,that we were living in um, 2022
rolled around, I think it waslike 2022, 2023.
And then you know it wasannounced that, you know, out of
the success of the suicidesquad, that James Gunn would be

(00:56):
taking on the Superman movie.
Um, I think at the time wedidn't know if he was going to
direct or not, but we knew thathe was going to lead, lead the
process and he was going towrite it, which was so, which
was, you know, very surreal atthe moment.
But then it kind of turned intothis quickly, awesome feat, um.
And then, you know, the castingstarted rolling in.
You know, obviously, all therumors were rolling in, all the
actors that could have playedSuperman, and David Coren sweat

(01:19):
kind of came in.
You know just kind of conqueredthis, this role, for all
intents and purposes.
So you know, I remember thatfirst, you know what was the
tagline Superman, what was thetagline?
It was supposed to be SupermanLegacy, yeah, superman Legacy.
And then Justin Timberlakewalked in from the set of the
Social Network and he said dropthe legacy, just do Superman.

(01:40):
And we are here, you know 2025.
We're two weeks away from youknow 2025.
We're two weeks away from youknow we're gonna see this movie
a little early.
So we're literally about alittle over two weeks away from
seeing, you know, the newiteration of superman for the
modern age yeah, yeah, I can't,can't wait.

Speaker 2 (01:55):
Um, speaking of the social network, they're making a
sequel to that.
Um, yeah, yep, that's funnilyenough, they are.
Yeah, um see, we'll see howthat goes, because I don't think
Fincher's involved, I thinkit's just Sorkin is writing and
directing Correct yep, which isinteresting, and Sorkin's last
movie he directed was the Whale,if I'm not mistaken.
Yeah, I think so, yeah.

(02:18):
So that was kind of an aside.

Speaker 1 (02:19):
No, the Whale was Aronofsky, my mistake.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
We're going to talk about Superman in the spirit of
kind of, with this new iterationof Superman, we're kind of just
going to give a history andlegacy.
And you know, all the actorsthat have kind of, you know,
paved the way for David Coren'swedding and have portrayed
Superman on screen, because it'sa quite eclectic, you know,

(02:44):
actor group of actors andstories behind those actors.
So, um, we just thought, withsuperman returning to the big
screen, we would kind of justkind of go through the history
and heritage of superman onscreen and and see, you know how
that, you know how we've gottenfrom the 40s to now, yeah, yeah

(03:05):
.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
I mean a character, that's been 90 years in the
making of this character and youknow we're going to focus
obviously on the actors and theyou know, the different types of
, you know media of which we'veconsumed Superman, but also the
cultural impact of Superman,which I think is equally if not
more important and I thinkthat's James Gunn's whole point
about this Superman is, you know, I'll talk about kind of the

(03:25):
contrast between this andFantastic Four, why both are
equally as important but fordifferent reasons.
So really looking forward tothat, but first we got some news
.

Speaker 2 (03:33):
We do have some news.
First and foremost, at thefront, Amazon has revealed who's
going to take the helm of thenext Bond movie, and it's going
to be none other than DenisVilleneuve.

Speaker 1 (03:43):
Yeah, you know what this feels like next Bond movie
and it's going to be none otherthan Denis Villeneuve.
Yeah, you know what this feelslike.
You remember when Pedro Pascalgot cast as Mr Fantastic and
you're like you can't certainlygo with the best actor available
, right?
And then they were like youactually can.
And you know, obviously, for meDenis is my probably top two
favorite director, maybe ever.
So for him to jump from Dune toBond because I thought he was

(04:06):
going to go right to rendezvouswith Rama after Dune, I mean
it's absolutely justbreathtaking stroke of luck that
Amazon was able to lock himdown.
I mean the details of the deal,I believe he doesn't have final
say, which you know in ofitself, kind of you know it
sucks a little bit.
You know you want him, you wantthe director to kind of have
the final say, but hopefully I Ibelieve they'll do that
character justice.
Um, I mean, I'm just kind ofthinking about the team he might

(04:29):
build to go on to that bondfilm.
I mean it's kind of, you know,it seems very evident that he's
probably going to bring gregfrazier with him to shoot this
movie.
That kind of is what my feelwill be, because obviously greg
frazier just came off ofshooting.
I think he just came off ofshooting Project Hail Mary,
which we're going to talk about.
I think he's probably going tomove into the Batman after that

(04:50):
and then probably right intoBond right after the Batman.
So, um, I was, you know, I wasjust looking at some frames from
in some scenes from someDenisville new movies and you
kind of look and you're like wow, you're about to get one of the
most famous.
He's the famous characters ofall time.

Speaker 2 (05:04):
That's just all types of awesome yeah, yeah, it's
super cool for him.
Um, obviously he's.
He's obviously rising toprominence because of um dune,
but obviously he's been makingstellar movies for years now.

Speaker 1 (05:19):
Yeah, I always say he has one of the most insane film
runs of all time.
What is it?
Incendies to Prisoners, toSicario, to Arrival, to Blade
Runner, to Dune 1 and 2, then onto Bond.
That's absurd, the scale ofChristopher Nolan.
But he also has like the.
He has like the reverence oflike uh how do I put it?
Of like uh, if you like,amalgamate like Fincher and

(05:55):
Scorsese into one like he haslike such this, like gruff and
broad tone to himself as welltoo.
I love the way that he makesfilms.
I love the way that he makesfilms.
I love the, the grandiosenature in which he makes films.
Um, and I love kind of they're,they're very tough's not the
right word, because then you getfilms like arrival and
specifically doing one.
I love the ambience of doingone kind of how it breathes and

(06:16):
it echoes.
So for him to take a bond film,to take it, because this is the
first time he's getting like acharacter like you know what I
mean, like a character that hecan kind of mold, I think, um, I
don't think we've seen worklike that from him since I think
blade runner he did a good job,especially with agent k kind of
doing that with ron gosling,but very excited um, which
brings us on to the casting.
Um, who would you like to seeplay the new james bond, now

(06:38):
that we know it's denisville new?

Speaker 2 (06:40):
yeah, um, it's a great question because I think
they I think even Amazon saidthat they weren't going to cast
until the script was done and Ithink the big thing is it's
going to be a younger Bond.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
That's like a known fact that this Bond will be
younger.

Speaker 2 (06:52):
Yeah, I mean just coming off of we saw F1.

Speaker 1 (06:59):
I mean Damien Anderson is right there.
That's exactly what I was goingto say, I feel like for the
modern age.
Obviously, you know he got histrue fame from Snowfall.
Obviously, f1 is printing moneyright now Like it is making a
stupid amount.
It made $144 in the openingweekend for a non-franchise
movie.
It's one of the biggest openingoriginals of the last few

(07:21):
decades, which is awesome.
He has it.
He has that suave Bond nature,but he can also get a little
rough, which I appreciate.
I think he really embodies whatDaniel Craig's Bond goes for as
well too.
I want to see him get his handsdirty, which that's what I
think Daniel Craig's Bond didreally well.
But he has also that suavenature of the old Bonds as well

(07:42):
too your Pierce Brosnannan's andso on and so forth.
So I'm really looking forwardto it.
Um, for me, uh, just because yousaid desmond idris, um, I did
like because they because amazon, I guess said like we want like
a harris, like it was jacobalorti, tom holland and um,
harrison dickinson the harrisondickinson I think would be
really good as james bond.
Um, somebody made a really goodpoint on a podcast.

(08:04):
They said Will Poulter as Bondwould be a fun choice, the
funniest one I saw.
And then I was like wait, inthe weirdest of ways, this can
actually work.
Just bear with me, matthewBarry, as James Bond.
Would that not be the funniestJames Bond film you've ever seen
?
I'm going to give you anabsolute outside of the box

(08:26):
thinking one.
You just have to bear with mefor this one as the last.
As no Time to Die has taught us, bond is or 007 is the moniker.
It's not the person.
For that sense, I'm going withAnya Taylor-Joy.
Oh, to play Bond.
That's interesting.
It is interesting.
I'm going to get a lot of hatefor that.

Speaker 2 (08:45):
No, I like that.
I like that.
She definitely has the you know, she has the feel of a spy
Right Exactly.

Speaker 1 (08:55):
That's why I said it, and obviously she's been
working with Denis Villeneuve aswell too.
I'm not stupid, though.
Denis Villeneuve andChristopher Nolan are good
friends.
Tom Holland is Villeneuve andChristopher Nolan are good
friends.
Tom Holland is about to star inChristopher Nolan's next movie.
I do see a world where TomHolland's next precipice as an
actor is playing James Bond.

Speaker 2 (09:15):
I mean.
So here's the problem with TomHolland.
Oh no, careful.
The problem with Tom Holland ishe has not.
I mean, hopefully the Odysseywill help with this, but I
understand how old he is, but he, he doesn't look it.

Speaker 1 (09:31):
Yeah, sure.

Speaker 2 (09:32):
Sure, which is not his fault at all, but, like I
think back to like uncharted,where, like, he played Nathan
Drake, but like he still feltlike a kid.
Yeah, and, like I said, maybethe odyssey will help with this,
and it also has to do with thefact that he's still playing
spider-man, right, he's stillplaying a young spider-man,
right.
So it's just, it'd be hard forme to look at him as like james

(09:57):
bond, right, but I get, I get itand it's not his fault and he's
a good actor, right, it's just,it's just the way he,
unfortunately, is incrediblyyoung um, I'm gonna switch my
pick because I feel like thisperson is about to kind of go on
like this heightened trajectoryas an actor.

Speaker 1 (10:15):
Um, I'm gonna go with aaron pierre to play james bond
.
Yeah, I think that he fits somany facets that you need to
play j Bond.
Like you know, you talk aboutthat suave nature, cool under
pressure nature.
Aaron Pierre has that and Ithink for him it's his voice,
truthfully will kind of carryhim a little bit.
He has the physical prowess aswell too.
I think I like the approachthey took with Daniel Craig.

(10:37):
Daniel Craig's a little bitsmaller, like he's, not some
like huge hulking human being,but I think this time you can go
with that.
Um, obviously, the acting chopsare there.
Um, if you saw rebel ridge,like you know that.
The physicality he has it aswell too.
So I think, plausibly, my endall be all choice would be aaron
.
Aaron pierre.
I think he has everything thatyou're looking for in james bond

(10:58):
.

Speaker 2 (10:58):
He encompasses yeah, I think.
I think also too with dennydirecting.
I think they're gonna scale,scale back the action a little
bit from the Craig Bond, who isnotoriously a maniac, and those
are high budget action filmspretty much.
I could see Denis going in adirection of we're going to go
back to the spy, espionage kindof aspect of Bond, and I think

(11:21):
that will lean into the charismaof the actor, whoever they end
up choosing.
So I think that's what we'rekind of going to go for.
I think they're going to scaleback the action quite a bit and
kind of return to kind of likethe espionage, kind of like we
were talking about MissionImpossible.
If the Mission Impossiblefranchise were to continue
without Tom Cruise, you'd haveto naturally probably scale back

(11:41):
the insanity of the action andkind of regress it back to kind
of like the espionage, spy,networking type thing is what I
think they're gonna end up doingno, I agree 100.

Speaker 1 (11:54):
And you know it's funny how grand and I weird I
was just talking about how granddenny operates in and I.
But I think this approach kindof would get back to like his
prisoners days, like I want kindof almost like a psychological
thriller from a Bond film aswell too.
And, like you said, really playup the espionage, really play
up you know these like superdetailed action sequences, like

(12:16):
the super tight hand to hand aswell too.
Somebody you add to the team,you know going down a list of
personnel you would need, I meanin terms of a score.
I feel like you know LudwigGorenson's right there as well
too.
I would love to see him take acrack at a Bond theme.
But Hans Zimmer, has he done aBond theme yet?

(12:36):
I'm not sure.
I don't think Hans Zimmer hasdone Bond before.
So, that being said, I don't Imean naturally, I think that
would just be because before.
So, that being said, I don't Imean naturally, I think that
would just be cause, like I feellike Hans Zimmer does, like
he'll do, like his F1 type ofmovies where, like he doesn't
need to try overtly too insaneit's, his talent is just so
immense that he can step into amovie really quickly like that,

(12:57):
and then he can do like Dune,where he takes his time, like he
actually builds an entire scorebehind it as well too.
So I feel like for Bond he'sgoing to do that, he's going to
kind of take his own thing.
But again, I'd love to seeLudwig Gordonson take a crack at
it.

Speaker 2 (13:10):
Mm-hmm, Moving on to other things.
So this Street Fighter movie,yeah.

Speaker 1 (13:17):
I don't See there's one movie announcement I was
super excited for and then weget to Street Fighter and I'm
like what is going on?

Speaker 2 (13:24):
We're going down a dangerous path.
We are so obviously.
This movie was greenlit and itwas announced, and Katao Sakurai
is directing who's probablybest known for.
He did the Twisted Metal show,he did Bad Trip on Netflix, he

(13:45):
directed the Aragondra show, hedid Bad Trip on Netflix, he
directed the Eric Andre show.
So he's directing the StreetFighter movie and we don't know
anything about it other thanit's coming out next year.
And then they just dropped aswath of cast news on this movie
and it's all over the place.
I don't think this movie's goingto good.
I think we're gonna.

(14:07):
I think I'll start there itfeels very like youtube.

Speaker 1 (14:11):
You know like when movies get like youtubers like
to be in the movie yeah, becauseit's the popular thing to do
like I mean, let's start withcurtis jackson, 50 cent out of
the gate.
Like I'm not gonna lie, I wasfine with that one.
Like I don't know why.
I was like all right.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
Yeah, so he's playing Balrog, who Balrog is.
For those of you who areunfamiliar with Street Fighter,
street Fighter is basically MikeTyson.
It's basically who Balrog is.
He's like the boxer typecharacter and I can see 50 Cent
doing that?

Speaker 1 (14:43):
Sure, I can see 50 Cent doing that.

Speaker 2 (14:44):
I can see him doing that.
I think it makes total sense.
Where it gets weird, it getsweird.
It can get weirder.
Starting with and this isn'tnecessarily weird, but it's
weird for the rest of the cast,and that's Andrew Koji, playing
Ryu, who feels like that's goodcasting if you're going to try

(15:04):
and make a good movie mhm right,like he's in Bullet Train.
Um, obviously, warrior is great,mhm, he's got a martial arts
background.
Yes, yep, um, that makes sense,mhm.
So like I saw that first andthen I was like, yeah, okay,
that makes sense yes, and thenit just kept getting weirder.
So, um, I guess I'll talk aboutkalina liang as chun li, who is

(15:27):
kind of.
She's kind of like in thattiktok youtube, but she can also
act right.
Um, and then it just then we,then it goes off the rails.
Um, so noah centennial is gonnaplay ken right um, which again I
was like, oh okay, sense, goodAmerican kind of counterpart to
Raidu, which is pretty much whatKen is, and then we just

(15:48):
devolve into this trio of juststrange casting.
So Jason Momoa is going to beBlanca.
So, for those of you who don'tknow, blanca is kind of an
electricity-based savage-typemonster person, right?
I don't know how else toexplain it.
It doesn't feel very JasonMomoa-y, right.

(16:09):
So I thought that was odd.
Yeah, love Jason Momoa, butjust doesn't.
Doesn't feel like it's playingto Jason Momoa's strengths, but
at least this is a JasonMomoa-esque movie.
Yes, yes, he did Minecraft.
Yeah, he did Fast and Furious.

Speaker 1 (16:26):
You know, the guy that directed Napoleon Dynamite
did Minecraft.

Speaker 2 (16:29):
Oh Huh, interesting.
So then, and then these lasttwo ones are also weird.
So Orville Peck is a norelation, is a country music
artist.
Um, who will be playing vega,who is a masked spanish assassin
.
So do with you with that.

(16:54):
And then, last and not least,um wwe superstar, roman reigns
will be playing akuma, which,again, I mean, a ak is Japanese.
So, first and foremost, oddchoice.
And then Andrew Schultz is inthis movie.
Andrew Schultz is going to beplaying Dan Hibiki, which is, I
mean, dan is comic relief.

(17:14):
So I guess, makes sense.
But also, what are we doinghere, I don't know man?
Oh, alan Richen is also in thismovie.
He's playing Guile.

Speaker 1 (17:26):
Oh, maybe they can run up the love interest that we
were missing in Fast X betweenhim and Jason Momoa.
I won't stop until thefranchise makes them a couple.
I won't stop.

Speaker 2 (17:34):
I just I don't know.
I can't imagine a world wherethis movie is any good and makes
any money and probably setsback all the goodwill that, like
the last of us, has built upand like the mario movie has
built up for, like video gamemovie adaptations, I feel like
this movie is destined to set itback right several years yeah
um, it it's not even I guess.

(17:55):
I guess we'll have to see whathappens with it.
Um, we'll see, like first kindof first looks whenever they
start filming this thing.
But it doesn't even seem likeit's going in like a like Mortal
Kombat got actors for theirmovie and kind of garnered, kind
of like a some goodwill.

(18:16):
Some goodwill, I'll say theMortal Kombat movie generated.
Obviously the Cole storylinewas not everyone's favorite, but
it seems like Mortal Kombat 2is going to do a proper Mortal
Kombat Right.
So I don't know, I just had totalk about it because it's
insane.
It's an insane castle.

Speaker 1 (18:35):
It is wild, so this movie can teeter, I mean, your
comp.
That you have to try to get tois probably Mortal Kombat, you
know what I mean.
That's probably where you'regoing to have to try to get to
is probably Mortal Kombat, youknow what I mean.
Like, that's probably whereyou're going to have to want to.
Like, that's probably the bestyou can get.
Yeah, the worst you can get isbad.
The worst you can get is aYouTube movie, which is probably
not what you want to do.

Speaker 2 (18:55):
Yeah.
I'm still going to see it.
I'll watch it, yeah, because Imean we'll see.
Like I just I see a cast likethis and, weirdly enough, like I
start getting images in mybrain of like how the movie's
going to look and I'm justenvisioning like cheesy CGI,
like cringey dialogue is kind ofwhat I'm starting to like

(19:17):
envision it Right, and I'm justlike I'm not excited to see what
ends up happening.
I'm not excited to see whatends up happening, but something
I am excited to see that'shappening is something that
caught me totally by surprise.
The Punisher is going to be inSpider-Man 4.

Speaker 1 (19:33):
Yeah, I'll never forget when that happened, you
texted me and I was sleeping andI woke up and I was like I
looked up Because you didn't saythe Punisher was cast.
You said you made a joke aboutPeter and Punisher interact,
like John Bernthal and TomHolland interacting, and I like
I didn't know what to make of itbesides a joke.
And then I looked on Twitterand I was like, oh wait, he

(19:55):
wasn't joking, this is real.

Speaker 2 (19:57):
Yes, officially announced, you know, by the
Hollywood Reporter that JohnBernthal will be in Spider-Man 4
as the Punisher, obviously.
Reporter, that john bernthalwill be in spider-man 4 as the
punisher, obviously, um, whichyou know takes the movie in a
totally interesting direction.
I mean, I think this prettymuch confirms that this is going
to be at a street level yes, Ithink that the studio listened

(20:18):
and the studio understood likehey, like you, I don't.

Speaker 1 (20:23):
I still think this movie is going to make 800
million plus dollars, likeobviously the movie.
This movie's going to make 800million plus dollars, like
obviously the movie.

Speaker 2 (20:28):
Oh, I think this movie's going to do really well
yeah the movie.

Speaker 1 (20:30):
any movie that has the name Spider-Man attached to
it will do well, it just will.

Speaker 2 (20:34):
And you have.
Now.
You have a fan favoritetelevision character, right,
that people have been reallyclamoring to see.
Mix it up, right, you know,with the greater MCU, right.
I mean that's kind of been thedream, right, since he became
the Punisher.

Speaker 1 (20:51):
Right.

Speaker 2 (20:52):
Man, let's see the Punisher interact with Captain
America.

Speaker 1 (20:54):
Right, you know, let's see the Punisher interact
Like put the Punisher in, Likethat's always been the
Punisher's kind of appeal islike take this man, this angry
man, and just have him mix it upwith like superpowered people
and see how that goes.
And that's where I think themcu needs to go like they need
to get back to that realm oflike it's.
It's like the comic thing ifsomebody shows up in this thing

(21:16):
and you're like, oh shoot, thisis like you never think these
characters would interact, butthey will and it seems like he's
gonna play a decent role.
I think the pun Punisherspecial probably will come out,
probably during the winter ofeither this year or the
beginning of next year, just sothe summer has Spider-Man in it.
I think it's cool.
I mean they're working togetheron the Odyssey right now Tom
Holland and Jon Bernthal.

(21:36):
And Jon Bernthal, I think, wasthe one that told Tom Holland
when he originally auditionedfor Spider-Man.
He said everybody thatauditions will be good,
everybody that they just will be.
He said you're the only onethat can do backflips, so put
that in your audition tape and,lo and behold, it helped him get
the role of Spider-Man and avery pivotal part for the MCU.
Like this is like the MCU debutof literally a top three most

(21:57):
iconic superheroes of all time,yeah.
So, um, the two of themtogether, I think, is going to
be awesome.
They're going to bounce offeach other really well.
I think that takes Mark Ruffaloout of this movie.
I think they were probablytrying to work around to get
Mark Ruffalo in this movie.
I think he's probably not goingto be in here now, which I'm
fine with If they were going todo.
I don't even know how you getMark Ruffalo in a movie like

(22:20):
this.
I don't know how you fit BruceBanner.
I don't know how you fit BruceBanner into the MCU at this
point, like I don't know whathis whole.
You probably missed youropportunity to get him back in
in Captain America 4.
So I'd rather this be a streetlevel movie.
I'm not going to be surprisedwithin the next few weeks if we
hear that Vincent D'Onofrio isalso going to sell the rights

(22:48):
back to Marvel Because they axedevery single one of their solo
movies.
Shocked Is that a shockerreference?
They canceled every single one.
The last time that happened,marvel got the full rights back
to all the netflix characters.
So, um, I wouldn't be surprisedif the rights revert back to

(23:10):
marvel, so they just havespider-man to themselves.
Then they can start to do otherstuff.
I think they want to do thatbefore miles.

Speaker 2 (23:16):
Morales becomes the main character yeah, that makes
a lot of sense.
Makes a lot of sense to me, um.
Yeah, I mean mean I was justsurprised, yeah Surprised, that
they were doing that, especiallycoming off the heels of them
saying like no, we want to kindof separate the TV stuff from
the movie stuff now.
So I mean it's interesting thatthey're going to cross that in.

(23:38):
But I think they are kind ofbuilding towards this idea of
making I mean, if they do end upgetting the rights to
Spider-Man back makingSpider-Man this kind of like
front man for the street levelside of the Marvel.

Speaker 1 (23:52):
Cinematic Universe.

Speaker 2 (23:54):
I would love.

Speaker 1 (23:55):
I don't think they'd ever.
If you're going to do that, youknow what you could do.
It'd be tough because I thinkTom Holland especially after the
Odyssey comes out he'll just bea tried and true like movie
star, which he already is.
But what I was thinking is, ifMarvel really wants to take the
full advantage of what Disneyplus is, you do a Spider-Man

(24:15):
show once you have the fullrights and you just run it how
you were running the ninetiesanimated, like it's just
Spider-Man, it's primeSpider-Man doing prime
Spider-Man things for as manyseasons as you need it to be
Super high quality.
You know revolve the charactersthat you need to do in there
Charlie Cox shows up, jonBernthal shows up.
You have other characters showup in there.
Like who's to say you don'thave like a Sam Wilson show up

(24:37):
in that show.
You know what I mean.
Like I've always had dreams ofdoing like prime spider-man show
weekly basis.
Like you know there's no.
Like this is differential, likethis is it so?
Um, maybe we see a realm likethat once they get the full
rights back, but then you missout on a billion dollars at the
box office.
So I don't think that'll everhappen?

Speaker 2 (24:55):
yeah, yeah, probably not, um, but no, I'm definitely
looking forward to seeing howthey integrate the punisher into
, I mean, obviously, the thedaredevil born again is like
it's in the MCU, but it stillfeels very hyper-connected to
the Daredevil-iverse Right.
So I'm curious, and it'sinteresting that the Punisher is
the first one that they'regoing to properly bring into the

(25:18):
fold as far as interacting withthe greater MCU.
It's super interesting to methat the Punisher is the one
that they pick.

Speaker 1 (25:24):
You would have thought it was going to be
Charlie Cox.
If they were going to do it.
I thought they were going to doa Kingpin.
Well, I mean.

Speaker 2 (25:29):
Daredevil was in no Way Home, but still All the more
reason to think it would havebeen Daredevil that would have
shown up.

Speaker 1 (25:36):
But apparently I guess there's another MCU
character that this movie so Iit's probably gonna be him or
vincent d'onofrio that's the onethat I can truthfully see.
That kingpin is like thebackdoor, like like villain of
this actual movie, like, yeah,what I think this movie's gonna
play out is, I think they'llcast um martin lee, which just
get the guy that played him inthe game to be him.

(25:59):
Yeah, um, he was in missionimpossible as well, too, which
was awesome, yes, so, um, I dothink're going to cast Steven
Yeun, though I do think it'sgoing to be him.

Speaker 2 (26:08):
That would be great.

Speaker 1 (26:10):
Because I know there was rumors about it.
But either way, whoever theycast, it's probably going to be
a great casting.
You just have Martin Lean bethe main villain of this movie.
I don't know who they're goingto have.
I forget the woman from theBear what her name is.

Speaker 2 (26:27):
Because I forget the woman from the Bear what her
name is, because she was cast asa villain for this movie as
well.
Sadie Sink is also in thismovie.

Speaker 1 (26:29):
Well, that's.
The big elephant in the room iswho is Sadie Sink playing?
I've always had this idea ofyou want to appeal to the broad
fans and, I think, to stray awayand do some of these like a
little bit deeper cuts,characters from like the 90s and
2000s, like there's.
It's a blessing and a curse.

(26:49):
You're gonna get out of it too,so you gotta like kind of be a
bit careful if you're gonna doit.
So, um, because I know theywere talking about her playing
some like different characters,some different love interests
for Spider-Man, so I thinkthat's probably the route
they're going to go, becauseshe's not going to play MJ.
I do somewhat disagree withZendaya and Jacob Babylon being

(27:09):
in this movie.
If they are, I hope it's forlike a second, like I'd hope
they don't like dominate this,like I think that was the whole
point.
It's like that was thesacrifice he had to make.
Yeah, so I'm looking forward tothis Me too.
We were kind of clamoring like Iwe're really hoping this movie
was street level and, allintents and purposes, it looks

(27:30):
like it.
Yeah, the punisher is going tobe in it.

Speaker 2 (27:31):
That pretty much confirms it, yeah, unless they
give him the war machine suit.
I'm you know, I'm still waitingfor that.
We're getting closer to that,though.
Um, we have some dc batmanadjacent news.
Um, first and foremost,clayface is confirmed, rated r,
and tom reese harry's is gonnabe playing clayface.

Speaker 1 (27:50):
Um, it's gonna be like a horror type movie body
horror, because james gunn talksabout his love for body horror,
especially it's funny enough onthe scooby-doo movies.
Yeah, he talks about his lovefor, for body horror.

Speaker 2 (28:01):
Um it's gonna take take on like AI in the movie
industry and stuff like that.
Deep fakes yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:07):
Kind of falsified truths as well too, which I
think is really interesting.
I think Clayface is going toturn into like this, like I
think you're going to probablyput him in like this swamp thing
, as kind of realm, as acharacter where he's a bit more
nuanced than just being like aBatman villain that can just
take the face of anybody andjust use like and I think that's
really interesting like again.

(28:27):
This is why I think james gunnis so cool, like he's cognizant
that it needs to be batman,superman, wonder woman, need to
be your holy trinity, but thenyour backfill is like a swamp
thing movie getting green litand like a clay face movie
getting green lit and like somepeople can be like, well, that's
not priority.
And I'm like, did you watch thesuicide squad and did you watch
peacemaker?
Because, like he immediatelygives validity to why these

(28:49):
characters matter, juxtaposed towhy superman and batman and
wonder woman matter.
So I'm actually really excitedto see what a movie like this
can look like yeah, me too.

Speaker 2 (28:57):
Um for sure.
And then the other bit of newsis matt reeves finally
apparently turned in the scriptfor the batman.

Speaker 1 (29:03):
Yep, he got doc 10 points off his final grade
because he turned the.
He turned it in late.
Took him long enough.
Took him long enough.
What were you doing, matt?

Speaker 2 (29:10):
Reeves.
I don't know how we knew thatthis was happening, like the
whole time was going on.
They're like Matt Reeves isgonna turn in his script in two
weeks and like how do we know?
How do we know this?
Because people can't shut up.
Um, so he finally turned it in,I guess.
So Batman, the Batman 2, is, Iguess, in full force.
Not really, yeah, we stilldon't know anything about it.

(29:31):
We don't know who's in it otherthan Robert Pattinson.

Speaker 1 (29:34):
Robert Pattinson will definitely be in this movie.
What's his name?
Will definitely be in thismovie too Colin Farrell.
I don't think you can tell.
Yeah, you probably.
Now he's like the king of crimein gotham.
Until you know.
Probably joker shows up at some, which he already did.
Barry keegan is playing joker.
Um, obviously, you're probablygonna get cat woman back as well

(29:54):
too all the all your favorites,all your favorites are back.
What, what, what does thismovie look like for you?
What does the batman part twolook like?

Speaker 2 (30:01):
I don't know at this point, I don't know any any
dreams you have for this film.
Um, I mean, just based on howthe last one went, I do think I
told you, I keep telling you,what my, my dream, I guess,
scenario for this movie is isthat you use, you do, batman up
against you know some type ofhush, probably like hush type
character and you use the jokeras like his hannibal lecter and

(30:24):
like they kind of like quasiwork together to like unsolve or
solve a mystery in gotham.
I think that would be reallycool.
Yeah, because it's not.
It's not something that we'vereally seen on screen before
yeah, um, obviously, his batmanis very much more realistic.

Speaker 1 (30:41):
Um, I still think that batman has, like the, it
can still have the slightest bitof fantastical, just the
slightest bit.
Um, for that reason alone, Ithink that mr freeze would be
like you set this movie a fewmonths after.
Obviously, then, if gotham'sunderwater, what's gonna happen
when the winter goes?
It's gonna freeze.
Um, you don't necessarily haveto give him the gun, but you can

(31:01):
kind of just do this likederanged scientist in gotham or
something, something along thoselines.
I just think the casting forsomething like that is more
important.
Realistically, I think they'regonna probably go hush.
I think that's probably.
You probably get like a big,you try to get like a bigger
a-list actor to play hush.
Uh, juxtaposed to him, um, torobert pattinson I mean they

(31:21):
already teased it and um, they,this reporter got killed, that
his father was.
You know his father his fatherhad killed.
Like, I truthfully think youcan probably build, you know,
like you said, a hush type ofstory as well too.
Um, I guess you're probablydealing with two elephants in
the room.
Um, one is it's the robinsituation.

(31:42):
Like, do you tackle a robin inthis movie?
Do you even think Robin in thismovie.
Do you even think about doingthat?
And then you have to kind ofshow the progression of Bruce
Wayne into the billionaireplayboy.
I think that's the one thingthat they need to address is
kind of get him further along tobe like more of a prime version
of Batman.

Speaker 2 (31:57):
Yeah, yeah, both those things make sense.
I know people were reallytrying to get the Mr Freeze
thing going after the batmanreleased, um, so we'll see.
I mean, I think I think thereason that the script took took
so long to make is because,truly, the state of dc films was
in such flux that I don't thinkmatt reeves even knew where he

(32:20):
and his batman kind of fit intoanything.
Yeah, so now I think heprobably has a better idea of
that.
Yeah, whether it's you know,whether they're folding him into
the DCU, whether it's going tobe kind of like it's still a
little side thing.
Regardless, I think he now hasthe answer and I think his
script is written to whateverthat answer is.

Speaker 1 (32:46):
Because, listen, there's a very real possibility
where he could be the DCU Batman.
I just don't know about RobertPattinson's idea for being
because the last franchise hewas in we saw how that went, but
this is a whole differentscenario.
And him as an actor I mean he'sleading one of the biggest
sci-fi franchises as a villainin the next Dune movie, because

(33:09):
I think he's shooting Dune andthen he's shooting this like
straight back to back.

Speaker 2 (33:12):
So, yeah, I think he's more comfortable in his
skin as a actor that he.
I don't think the franchisething much bothers him anymore.

Speaker 1 (33:22):
No, and I think the critical reception to the batman
as well, too, probably helps,because the last time he had a
franchise thing it was, it wascritical reception was like he's
the teen heartthrob thateverybody hates and he and he
was like, and he was like in aweird way, like he was shackled
to twilight exactly, whereas Idon't think he's shackled to.

Speaker 2 (33:40):
He's clearly not shackled to the batman, because
he's been doing other things.

Speaker 1 (33:43):
Yeah, I mean look at his Bruce Wayne and then look at
a movie like Mickey 17.
He's played two and that's whatevery director that's worked
with him has kind of said islike he is such a chameleon of
an actor, of like you can givehim something and then he'll
kind of adapt.
I mean, look at that.
And then you look at Tenet.
Like you're talking about threecompletely different characters
that he embodies so completelydifferent characters that he

(34:09):
embodies so, um, I wouldn't.
My true hope is like I want tosee him juxtaposed to david corn
sweat.
I feel like the two of themwould be phenomenal together.
They're both, you know, tallerindividuals.
They're both like and like Isaid, like if you progress his
bruce wayne along to more tothat billionaire playboy, like I
think the two of them againsteach other would be absolutely,
but not even against each otherwith each other and I boxed you
the point about the confusion.
I think that's the true fear Ihave is, like, within years of

(34:32):
each other, presumably if thebatman part three gets greenlit,
like having two prime batmanrun against each other is going
to be so difficult to do.
Yeah, so, and obviously theflash movie took years to come
out, so Ben Affleck would havealready been done playing Flash
or playing Batman by that timeanyway.
So when?
Because the Batman came out in2022, right?

(34:54):
So I don't think you want tohave two Batman just for like
general audience sake.
I think that's the true thing.
I think I think probably thedcu front, james guns and I and
I understand why he probablywants he doesn't probably want
to touch that because of howlike, how good it is.
Like I don't, I don't want totouch that batman, like I want

(35:14):
my own batman for the dcu.
I just see a world where, like,the general audience gets too
confused.
I'm like why do I need to seethis one if this one's connected
to Superman and everybody else?

Speaker 2 (35:25):
Yeah, yeah, no, totally.
We live in a world whereeverything has to matter and
everything has to be connected.
When you're talking about thesefranchise movies, so you can't
really get away with that.
You could have probably gottenaway with it in the early 2000s
yeah, you probably couldn't havegotten away with it.
But now people are so hyperfixated on continuity that you,
you can't, you can't do it,especially in the one of them,

(35:47):
one of them would suffer, sufferfor it and unfortunately it's
probably going to be it wouldprobably be matt reese.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Um, we got a couple trailers totalk about.
Um, first and foremost, thefinal fantastic four trailer has
released and I think thetakeaway is the silver surfer is
serving yeah, she is servinghis beginning I don't know what,

(36:11):
maybe julia garner can just dothat with her voice but that
like robotic, like soullessdelivery of that heralding
galactus line, I was likecaptivated, right.
Um, you know, we didn't we, wegot some we.
What we got in this lasttrailer was a lot of um, I guess

(36:32):
, just a lot of like kind ofactiony bits and kind of the,
the proper, like you feel likethe story which we kind of know
already.
This story is going to revolvearound the kid.
It's going to revolve aroundfranklin richards, yeah, in some
form or fashion.
Um, we got, I think we got.

Speaker 1 (36:49):
This is probably the most we've gotten out of johnny
storm in these trailers and outof reed as well too, on a
physical front, and I mean wecan kind of go character to
character.
So, just starting with pedropascal, I mean he had that huge,
what was it?
Uh, was it variety varietyinterview?
Yeah, he had a big piece forvariety.
Um, he was kind of talkingabout all the characters he
played and you know the pressurethat he has now.

(37:11):
You know it's funny enough likea character, like an actor of
that caliber I mean at thispoint he's probably the most
famous like modern actor on theplanet right now is Pedro Pascal
.
So, like you know, for himstepping into a role like this,
it's like it's not that easy.
Like I have to kind of appeasethe comic book fans, I have to
appease the general audiencesand like I already have, like my
mustache, I already havesomething against, like I have

(37:32):
things against me intrinsically.
So it's funny.
I was kicking through theoriginal 63 comics because I
have that, I have the omnibus oflike their first issues and I'm
like the more and more I see ofhis reed richards, I'm like
they actually nailed it, like heactually nailed it to the point
where they told him to dialback the transatlantic accent

(37:52):
and they said chill out withthat man, you're too good at it
um his powers.
Look good he I think they did.
It looks pretty.
It's so tough to do it too, todo the stretchy powers um, but
they, they did a really good job.

Speaker 2 (38:05):
He looks, he looks really good and again, I
maintain that this movie is notgonna lean into his elasticity
being his superpower.
They're gonna.
This movie's gonna lean intohis mind being a super.
Yes, yes, I'd maintain that.
I think that that is a.
Obviously, like you said, it'shard to do b.
I think they're really notgonna lean into the elasticity
that much, because I thinkthey're really not going to lean

(38:25):
into the elasticity that muchbecause I think they're going to
lean into his mind being hissuperpower is what I think right
this movie is going to do umyou know, just thinking, because
I can't help myself.

Speaker 1 (38:37):
Um, I do think they're going to do a council of
reed situation in this movie,because we got to make the
billion dollars, we got to getfrom the 850 to the billion
dollars, so I can definitely seea world where they joan griffin
, john krasinski I would love ifmiles teller was there, but he
was the maker as well too.
I think that would be reallycool.
Um, but yeah, I mean, you go tosue storm.

(38:59):
It's, it's still my, it's stillmy favorite casting out of this
entire.
It is absurd how good she looksas sue storm.
Um, you know, she looks likethe true field leader and the
true like social and publicleader of the of the fantastic
four as well too.
And then you know her being,you know a mother in this film
as well too.
Like, all those things aresuper important, like it.
Just, it looks so good.

(39:19):
Um, they're not hiding the babybump anymore, which I love,
because they were hiding itthey're also not hiding the baby
.
Yeah, they're not hiding thebaby at all because, like now in
the trailer, you see her babybump as well too.
The baby is also in the trailer, exactly.
Yep, um, ben looks.
I mean, eban moss bachrock isben grim was one of the most
inspired castings you could havethought, thought about.
He has a beard.

(39:39):
He has a beard.
What time is it, ben?
He looks so good.
I I love how subtle and it'slike it's such a juxtaposition
to him playing richie and thebear, like he's such more subtle
he's, he's much more you knowof, like you know lack of a
better term like the rock ofthis team.
Like he looks like just reallymuch like, uh, just like.

(39:59):
I mean, the design also is justdesign is incredible, it is.
It is why, like I was thinkingabout this with superman and
with these suits, I was like youcouldn't even do this in 2012,
you couldn't even do this like afull commit to just like, not
only just the, the suits, butthe movie itself.
Like, do the comic booky stuff,do the outlandish stuff?
You don't have to make it, youknow, you don't have to settle

(40:22):
it down for anybody.
You, you can just do the things, so I'm super excited.
And then Johnny.
So Joseph Clintus, johnny Storm.

Speaker 2 (40:31):
People are coming around and I'm just like why is
anyone surprised that he'snailing this?

Speaker 1 (40:35):
I was on that train.
I was on the train of like Idon't know, but now I'm sure
this type of role is what madehim famous.

Speaker 2 (40:43):
Exactly Right, you know, spitfire like loud mouth
cocky.
This is who eddie was in.
Stranger things with a heart ofgold, yeah, and that, yeah, and
I think that's gonna shinethrough in this movie at various
points, as you're gonna, asyou're gonna see that element of

(41:04):
johnny's character.
Um, super, yeah, he again.
This was probably the most wesaw of him as Johnny in any of
these trailers and he's just,you can tell, he just gets it.
So, and then, yeah, we saw alittle bit more of Galactus.
We saw him suiting up.

Speaker 1 (41:23):
I love the approach that they're taking, like
they're not showing fullGalactus, they're really like
they're really playing up theevent and that's what I really
appreciate.
Like this this is an end of theworld film.
Like this is a true, like it'slike armageddon exactly.
This is like armageddon um, it'slike 2012, like this is a true
end of the world film, which isreally.
It's a really interesting takebecause, like, I feel like the

(41:45):
fantastic four play is like this, like hopeful group.
But I love the approach of likeyou take this family that's
already been through some trialsand tribulations and you put
them in the end of the worldscenario and you kind of see how
they adapt, what they do, howthey approach it and you know
how do they still stay theheroes that are supposed to keep
the world safe?
And you know it goes into thepoint about Reed Richards, about

(42:06):
you know, are we safe?
I don't know Like.
I don't know Like, and I'm theone that's supposed to know.
I hope that drives him.
I hope it drives him insane.
I want to see all those thingsand I think that's why you cast
Pedro Pascal as Reed Richards,because he can teeter that line
between being lovable and beinga sadistic maniac, and I really
appreciate that.

Speaker 2 (42:26):
Yeah, yeah, I'm super excited.
They're holding the voice.
They're holding Ralph Innoc thevoice.
They're holding ralpheinstein's greatest weapon,
aside from him being able todestroy planets, is his voice.
Um, which is which isinteresting, um, we know that
ralph einstein was in a propergalactus practical costume,

(42:51):
insane stomping around miniaturecities, miniature sets.

Speaker 1 (42:55):
Bring back real filmmaking, said Max Shackman.

Speaker 2 (42:58):
Gareth Edwards.
Somewhere is like that's mytype of filmmaking, right there.

Speaker 1 (43:02):
Gareth Edwards actually just got a cosmic being
.

Speaker 2 (43:07):
So that's the one trick they haven't pulled yet is
showing Galactus, which I thinkis perfect.

Speaker 1 (43:13):
They have shown the Silver Surfer, though, and Julia
Garner looks phenomenal as theSilver Surfer.
She sounds incredible.
I herald his beginning.
I herald your end.
It's like wait, what is shecooking?

Speaker 2 (43:27):
Someone back there like is that alien kind of no,
no, hmm, no, someone somewhere.
You know what?
I am okay with a female silverserver, actually you know what?

Speaker 1 (43:36):
Maybe the world does need to, maybe we do need to be
consumed.

Speaker 2 (43:39):
Yeah, like I said, I don't know.
Like I said, I don't know whatit is, I don't know if she can
just do that with her voice orthey.
The voice modulation, or theydid that, but it sounded
menacing.

Speaker 1 (43:49):
I don't particularly know if she can just do that
with her voice it soundedmenacing.
So I mean I'm excited to seemore of that character also yeah
, I'd see it looks like theaction sequences are going to be
cool.
Um, whatever, the space missionthat they have in the end is
going to be awesome.
But I I just you made the bestpoint, you know, early on when
these trailers started comingout and kind of more images,
things like.

(44:09):
I'm most excited to see whatthey do with reed richards to
differentiate him.
I think yoan griffin does agood job of being like,
especially in the second one oflike.
No, I care about the science,but they still play it down a
bit to have his heroic momentslike.
I want to see a reed that's alittle bit disconnected like but
then gets reeled back in by suestorm.
I think that's what pedro andand vanessa really have going

(44:31):
well for each other.

Speaker 2 (44:32):
Yeah, yeah.
So we got that coming up inthree weeks-ish, which is crazy,
and then we got another trailerfor Project Hail Mary, so we
talked about this a little bit acouple months or a month and a
half ago.
Maybe it is an adaptation of anovel written by the same author
who wrote the Martian it starsRyan Gosling, and we're going
back to space adaptation of anovel written by this, but the

(44:52):
same author who wrote themartian um stars ryan gosling,
and we're going to.
We're going back to space.
The sun is dying.
We gotta send one.
We have one hope his name ismovie star ryan it's ryan
gosling and we're gonna send himto space to fix the sun.

Speaker 1 (45:08):
Um looks good it looks so good.
Um, they showed it at CinemaConand the crowd was basically
like no, this looks insane, likethis is like an absolutely
insane film that's about tohappen.
I mean, for all intents andpurposes, it looks really good.
I mean just so for people thatdon't know about the book itself
.
I think it came out in the2020s.

(45:29):
Whatever year it came out, Ithink it was the popular year
book of that year in which itcame out.
It's the same person that wroteuh andy ware, who wrote uh the
martian, so that's kind of youknow your cell right there.
Um, I was super surprised whenryan gosling signed on to be in
this movie.
I remember they announced bothat the same time.
We're doing a project tail marymovie and ryan gosling's gonna

(45:50):
be in it.
I said, huh, ryan movie starRyan Gosling.
Um, and then Lord and Millerwere the ones that were
directing this and you're likewait a minute, just you.
You just wait a second.
Um, obviously, you have SandraHewler in here, um, oscar winner
as well, too, which is awesome.
Um, and then you know the crewitself I mean Greg Fraser, you
add in there as well, too toshoot the movie.

(46:11):
I mean, greg Fraser, you add inthere as well too, to shoot the
movie.
I mean, the movie visually looksso good Like.
It looks absolutely incredible.
Like you said, the story issimple the son's dying Ghost's
in sixth grade teacher.
Every star is dying, every starexcept for one, and then every
star is infecting the otherstars, so they don't know that
basically the whole galaxy isabout.

(46:32):
The whole universe is about toexplode, so we got to figure
that.
Or about to go cold, so we haveto figure this out.
Um, so yeah, I mean it looksfun Like.
It has a lot of like thecomedic in the timing and humor
of of the Martian as well too,but it also looks like it has a
lot of heart as well too.
Um, and then Lord and Millerknow how to really play a motion
.
So I really think they got afun movie.

(46:53):
It's coming out in March, sosolid first quarter of the year
film that's going to come out in2026.
So I think they nailedeverything in this.
I have no reservations.
This looks really great.

Speaker 2 (47:05):
Yeah, yeah, I'm looking forward to it.
There's also an alien elementas well.

Speaker 1 (47:09):
Rocky.

Speaker 2 (47:14):
Which I saw.
A lot of people were saying, oh, did this spoil the movie?
But apparently no.
Um, according to book readers,the alien shows up quite early
in the book so there's a lotapparently to come still in this
plot, which I'm looking forwardto it.
I'm really looking forward toit.
Um, superman, um.
So superman has obviously along, long history.

(47:36):
Character first appeared in1938.
Actually, comic number one.
You know the story, you knowthe story.

Speaker 1 (47:43):
He lifts up the green car.
He lifts up the green car.

Speaker 2 (47:46):
He wears his trunks on the outside of his pants.
He is the archetype, thearchetypal hero.
There's really no other way toexplain it.
And then segue into obviouslywe have this thing, we have this
character.
That is truth, justice in theAmerican way.
And it wasn't the time.
And how do we make the dollarsoff this character?

(48:09):
Said movie studios and TVstudios.
So the first live actionappearance of superman was in
1948, um, in a serial, and wasportrayed by kirk allen, was the
first live action superman.
Um, and then a sequel serialserial, adam man versus superman
, came out in 1950.

(48:29):
Um, and by all intents andpurposes kirk allen was well
regarded as kind of superman.
He, you know, thought much likeeveryone at the time, thought
that superman was impossible todo as a tv show or a movie.
Um, and he just kind of, as youdo in the in the day, like he
could.
They just kind of like hey, youkind of look like clark kent,

(48:51):
you want to be Superman.
Um, and then he was.
Um.
Unfortunately, kirk Allen'scareer never really took off.
Um, you're going to see that asa through line.
Um, especially early Right,first couple, first couple goes
around for these Superman actors.
Um, he did appear in the 1978movie as Sam Lane.
Yeah, um, which was which wasnice that he was able to come

(49:11):
back, um, you know, kind of bein the Superman universe, um,
but he had a.
He had a relatively kind of youknow, non spectacular career,
um, after Superman kind of hadtrouble getting work passed away
in 1999, the age of 80 AD, um,so that was the first kind of
iteration of Superman in liveaction kind of got the ball
rolling as far as, like, um, youknow, is this possible?

(49:42):
Like, can we do?
You know, we can do Batman, wecan do kind of more normal hero
type serials.
Can we actually do Superman?
Um, and the answer was yes, yes, we can.
Um, and then that paves the wayfor George Reeves.
So George Reeves a little bitmore of a checkered history with
Superman got to play thecharacter in the Superman, like

(50:06):
a Superman TV show.
Basically.
He portrayed the character formany, many years Throughout.
He did a couple movies.
He portrayed the character formany, many years throughout.
He did a couple movies but wasreally marred by the character
and by the.
You know he was tight cast, yeah, as the Superman actor, right,

(50:27):
and you know it caused him tonot be able to get a lot of work
.
It caused him to not be able toget a lot of work, mm-hmm, you
know, and his you know, hiscareer was kind of cut short by
portraying Superman for so manyyears.
He portrayed Superman for sixyears, from 1952 to 1958.
And then he died in 1959, ayear later after Superman ended,

(50:49):
at the age of 45, he committedsuicide and then, you know, you
know most, I mean, unfortunately.
The most notable thing forGeorge Reeves was he was brought
back quote-unquote in the flash, um, in that baffling sequence,
um of like the quote-unquotelike DC multiverse, and they
brought George Reeves back umwith.

(51:12):
I don't even believe it wasgreenlit by his estate that he
was put into this movie.
So just a really rough kind oflike Hollywood's take on

(51:32):
Superman that after he portrayedthe character and died, we
don't see Superman again for 20years, right, um, um.

Speaker 1 (51:41):
But obviously when he does reappear we get
Christopher Reeve um the singlemost iconic superhero actor
that's ever graced the planet.

Speaker 2 (51:51):
Yes, yeah, I don't think there's any question that
you can debate, quote unquote,who's the best, who's this,
who's that?
Um, when it comes tochristopher reeve, this is.
It's maybe maybe less sonowadays because it's 2025 and
we're 50 years on, but this iswho people think of when they
think of superman right and Ithink the more important thing

(52:12):
for him, it's the culturalimpact that he had on the world
when he became Superman in 78.

Speaker 1 (52:17):
Like you know, a world you know some years
removed from a war, from amassive war the Vietnam War, you
know coming into you know the80s, the pop culture, nature of
the 80s as well too.
What Richard Donner and teamwere able to do in 78 was, you
know the tagline you're, you'regonna see a man fly.
Like you know it's belief notonly in you know that statement,

(52:41):
but it's a belief in hope.
That's, truthfully, the stakein the cultural world stake that
superman has.
I mean, you know, obviouslywe'll talk about it when we get
into you know what david cornsweat, hopefully, is going to do
with this role, but and whatJames Gunn wants to do with the
character overall.
But what the true power ofSuperman is, it's the kid that
looks up and you know he seesthis.
He or she sees this beacon ofhope flying.

(53:03):
You know that's what I, that'sthe true strength of what
Christopher Reeve was like.
You know to think you can do alittle bit better as a person to
, like you know, get an audiencethat's, you know, encompassing
of all in there.
It doesn't matter who you are,where you came from, that you're
capable of doing good, and Ithink Christopher Reeves
approaches it with such thissubtlety and such this like

(53:24):
friend, like I'm just a friend,like I'm a friend that you know,
that you can trust and that youknow I can help you do a little
bit better.

Speaker 2 (53:32):
He talked to me, he talked about that, he talked
about his, his, he doesn't whenhe, as you know, one of the
things that attracts him to therole was the duality of Clark
Kent and Superman, obviously.
But he said, you know, inplaying Superman that he,
christopher Reeve, was a big, abig man.
He was six foot four.
You know, he was kind ofslender.

Speaker 1 (53:53):
But he wasn't.
You know he was.
He was a big man, yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:55):
He wasn't a small man , so he decided to play Superman
, as he kind of underplayed itwhere, like, it was very calm,
it was very casual, like he.
Um, I think the term he usedwas he wanted the audience to
feel an implied power.
Right, like like he, he doesn'thave to puff out his chest, you
know what I mean.
He doesn't have to, he doesn'thave to act strong because he is

(54:18):
strong, right?
Um, you know he wanted peopleto see a familiarity and a
calmness in superman, which Ithink it was.
Obviously it was a tremendousdecision.
Um, you know, they put himopposite some really really
talented actors.
Um, marlon brando played hisfather, yeah, that's probably

(54:39):
one of the biggest deals as wellat the time yeah, yeah, um gene
hackman, obviously the lategreat gene hackman, playing lex
luther um an iconic kind ofportrayal of lex luther at the
time.
Um, and it just he just wentfrom there, man, he and just in
real life and you're gonna youknow you kind of you get this

(54:59):
with with actors from time totime like in real life was a
philanthropic, you know um, anactivist, um, just an overall
good good, a good man um, thathe kind of carried into.
He played superman, you know,across four films, um, and then

(55:20):
obviously the story ofchristopher reeve.
You know tragedy cut, you knowhis his acting career right very
short.
You know he was, you know,paralyzed in a in a horse
accident, um, but even then, youknow, didn't let that stop him
continued to be an activist,continued, you know, do all
these great things um, for youknow, in the.

(55:41):
You know he was a great activistfor those disabilities um, up
until his death, you know, inthe um I think he died in the
early 2000s, I think he died in2004.
You know this is the goldstandard.
You know you hope that anyactor that you cast, you know,

(56:01):
not just for Superman, but justany actor that you cast in a
heroic type role.
Christopher Reeve is the one.
Is what you shoot for.

Speaker 1 (56:09):
Yeah, I mean you know the importance of that movie
coming out in 78.
Like, you know what we alwayskind of get to we always talk
about spider-man, the, the ramytrilogy, we always talk about
blade, we talk about x-men.
You know we don't talk about in78 superman coming out, because
it that's like the grandfatherone, like that's the one that's

(56:29):
so important that you can do thecomic book things you know.
You can have the characterwhere the tight or the you know
the tights and the and have thecape and fly around and do good
like they're so encompassing ofeach other and so important.
So that being your backbone, Ithink is super important yeah,
and he can.

Speaker 2 (56:45):
I mean he continued to work you know before, during
and after superman.
Um, obviously superman was kindof you know his, where he made
his, made his money and made youknow was uh kind of most
notoriety for.
But I don't think he ever fellinto the typecast you know kind
of hole that the earlier actorsfell into.

(57:06):
Um, you know just, he justplayed the part so well and
people were like you're like,like you're Superman, and he was
comfortable in that role and Ithink that's really, really cool
.
So Superman 4 comes out in 1987.
We get a Superboy kind ofSmallville, pre-smallville, um,

(57:30):
in 1990, 1988 to 1992, um, youhave John Hames Newton and
Gerard Christopher play ClarkKent in the Superboy tv show.
Um, never really goes anywhere.
Um, neither actor kind ofreally rises to much prominence.
Um, then this is kind of youknow, you kind of talk about you
know a Superman.

(57:51):
You know, is this charactercursed?
Um, is this, can this work likeis?
Was christopher reeve like kindof?

Speaker 1 (57:59):
like the unicron, yeah, yeah, um, and then we go
to 1993.

Speaker 2 (58:02):
We, we superman takes a break from, from film um, and
they think, you know, maybesuperman works better on tv,
like as a serial um.
So we get lois and Clark, theNew Adventures of Superman,
starring Dean Cain.
Um, and this, you know, kind ofbrought Superman back to the
forefront um in the early 90s um, through Dean Cain's portrayal

(58:25):
of Superman, which was again alittle more understated um, but
good for TV, I would say.
The show ran for four years.
It was written for a much moremodern Superman.
It focuses much more on Loisand Clark's relationship.
So you start to see you'regoing to start to see this

(58:46):
through line too, of really thewhat works for TV is the love
story is what you kind of getwith lois and clark, right, um,
because you start to see thatkind of shot.
I mean, she's her name's in thetitle, right um.
So that's kind of where youstart to see kind of lois and
clark as a, as a unit right,take, take to the forefront and

(59:11):
then, which leads us to so newadventures of superman ends in
1997 and then in 2001, you getsmallville um.
Tom welling show runs for 10years.
It's great, there's really noother way to say it.
I mean this this was the thingthat made superhero tv cool um

(59:36):
yep was smallville.

Speaker 1 (59:38):
Yeah, it's funny how, if christopher reeve and
richard donner built thatsuperman for superman to work on
the big screen smallville andfor superheroes in general to
work on the big screensmallville really ignited what
superheroes can do on the on thesilver screen because there's
so, there's so many superheroesthere is so many superheroes um

(59:59):
Smallville, you know, kind ofushered in this era of
continuity in an interconnectedgreater universe yep um, um,
where Smallville, despite thebackdrop of being this prequel
story, integrated so many DCcharacters, um, in a cool kind

(01:00:24):
of wacky like they're.

Speaker 2 (01:00:27):
They're kind of heroes, but they're kind of all
just kind of prototypes forthemselves.
It definitely felt like theearly 2000s oh for sure, but
just in the best way, like theythrew Supergirl in there.
They threw the Flash GreenArrow.
Cyborg, cyborg.

Speaker 1 (01:00:48):
Martian Manhunter Season 10 just has Doomsday in
it, solid design too.

Speaker 2 (01:00:56):
It's kind of wild, yeah that you know all the stuff
that they ended up doing with.

Speaker 1 (01:01:03):
Smallville.
I think what Smallville alsodoes, and especially Tom Welling
, like being in the early 2000s,like really the teenage fever
dream of what it could have beenLike I think he plays on that
well Like he doesn't have thetrue altruism of superman, yet
he's learning, he's navigatingand that's true youth.
Like you're learning how to bea human being, you're learning
how to be a good human being andhe evolves throughout that,

(01:01:24):
through through the 10 seasonsthat that show went on for which
is insane.

Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
so yeah, the fact that they got 10 seasons out of
a, out of a super Supermanprequel show just goes to show
you the strength of it and howmuch people resonated with it
and we really felt like if theyweren't clamoring for it, they
were clamoring for it once theyhad it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:42):
Yeah, the audience for that is broad because, like
I said, you have like theyouthful exuberance of what you
know.
His Superman was like a T hewas a teenager into a young
adult.

Speaker 2 (01:01:59):
But then you had the true Superman fans, and then it
was just solid television aswell too.
Yeah, it is.
It is the, the, the white whale, by which all prequels yeah,
exactly four, I mean we saw.
I mean, how many prequels havewe seen, you know, go and fail.
Like you know, gotham is notsmall, and I think Gotham
wrestled with its own identity,in the sense that they didn't
want it to be about Batman untilthey realized it had to be

(01:02:21):
about Batman.
And by then it was too late.
You know, I mean this show didso much.

Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
I mean Doomsday, dodd they get lex luther lex yeah I
mean michael rosenbaum lexluther is iconic right you know,
um, he's like the.
He's one of the teeter pointsfor what, or the totem poles for
what a super villain should be.
And, like you know how manyreference points do you think

(01:02:49):
he's probably taken from overhow much superhero, uh, things
have come out after that yeah, Imean erica durance is like, uh,
black swifter, boas lane, um,and they didn't.

Speaker 2 (01:02:59):
What they did was they kind of slow, played the
clark and lois sub, which gaveit this kind of drama angle,
like they.
Like it's lois lane superman.
You know they're going to, butthey still were able to play up
this will-they-won't-theydynamic between the two of them.
Aaron Ashmore was in this showas Jimmy Olsen, but yeah, I mean

(01:03:22):
so many different charactersshow up in this that it's kind
of crazy and it kept Supermanaround like in the zeitgeist for
10 years, you know, um, and Imean while while smallville is
going on, you get supermanreturns yes, that's, this is a.

Speaker 1 (01:03:43):
This is an important one, because I think this was a
studio ask to say we want to dowe're ready?
Yeah, we're ready, becausebefore this, a few people were
supposed to play superman andprobably most, most notably,
nicholas cage was supposed toplay superman in that time yeah,
they in the.

Speaker 2 (01:04:00):
While smallville is running like the studios, warner
brothers is struggling to getanother superman movie off the
ground but what happened in 2005for for warner brothers?

Speaker 1 (01:04:10):
they got this absolutely.
They got this filmmaker namedChristopher Nolan to do a dark
and gritty take on Batman, whereBatman before that in the 90s
was like is Batman serious?
And Christopher Nolan said, yes, he is, I'll show you that he's
serious.
So I think the studio also saidif we can get Batman to work,
we can get Superman to work andthese IPs are going to make us

(01:04:30):
money.
Smallville is doing well.
Smallville is doing well.
So people like superman.

Speaker 2 (01:04:34):
but what's the one drawback to smallville?

Speaker 1 (01:04:37):
he's not, he's not superman, he's not superman.
So the studio said let's do asuperman movie.
The one thing that they underthat they did that, I think, is
like it robs brandon routh a bitis that he is christopher
reeves superman.

Speaker 2 (01:04:52):
That's the only thing that I thought about that it's
because it's the last referencepoint that they had.
Yeah, they haven't made aSuperman movie in 20 years.
Yep, to this point, right.
And they kind of looked atBrandon Routh the same way they
look at Christopher.

Speaker 1 (01:05:05):
Reeve yes.

Speaker 2 (01:05:06):
Tall Mm-hmm Handsome A friend.
He looks like.

Speaker 1 (01:05:10):
Superman.
He looks like Clark Kent.

Speaker 2 (01:05:12):
Yeah, yeah, brandon Routh, really looks like Clark
Kent, he looks like Superman.
They get you know, they getwhat's his name Bryan Singer.
Mm-hmm To do this.
They pull him essentially offof X-Men.
Mm-hmm, yeah, they did.
Did Yep To do this?
Yep kind of suffers for that aswell.
Like, um and you're right tothis point like this is supposed

(01:05:34):
to be the same.
It's supposed to be the fifthmovie, essentially.
Yeah, um, it's called supermanreturns, and I think brandon
routh is quite good, oh that I.

Speaker 1 (01:05:44):
I don't know if we want to rank the superman when
we're done.
It's such a tough thing to dobut I love brandon routh as
superman like and it's evenbeyond him playing Christopher
Reeve.
Essentially, I just think he'sa phenomenal Superman.
Like I said, he's the front.
I think it's his.
It's the same way I really likeBen Affleck as Batman.
It's because of his Bruce Wayne.

(01:06:04):
It's the same thing for BrandonRouth.
I love his Clark Kent.
That's the most Clark Kent,clark Kent I think we've gotten
so far.

Speaker 2 (01:06:14):
Besides Christopher Reeve, obviously.
And yeah, the movie.
You know the budget is huge,the movie doesn't perform super
well.
So that is the marks, thebeginning, and then you know
kind of film itself was also.

Speaker 1 (01:06:24):
It was bogged down by like the thing, like the whole
he's Lex is trying to convertearth into a like totally that
movie is all over the place abit too.
Yeah it is.
I Like totally that movie isall over the place a bit too.
Yep it is.

Speaker 2 (01:06:37):
I used to love that movie when I was a kid I loved
that movie.

Speaker 1 (01:06:38):
So that movie comes and goes essentially, and that
was the first in, so we thoughtit was the first and last time
we'd see Brandon Routh asSuperman.

Speaker 2 (01:06:47):
Yes, I guess the thing that kind of ties Tom
Welling and Brandon Routhtogether is they both return in
Christ on infinite earth astheir respective characters.
Um and I think for Tom Welling,I think it was, it was cute, I
guess is the best way I can putit Um, he comes back and you
find out he lives with Lois,they have kids, he's surrendered

(01:07:08):
his powers, he's mortal Um,which fits, I think, the
Smallville iteration of supermanum, we're like that's kind of
the joke is like we never sawhim as superman um, and now we
see him again, all these yearslater, and he's surrendered his
powers and he's just tom welling.
Look great though yeah, he didhuge yeah yeah, he is jacked.

Speaker 1 (01:07:29):
He should just play Superman, maybe.

Speaker 2 (01:07:31):
And then, obviously, brandon Routh returns as a
mixture of his own Superman andthe Kingdom Come version of
Superman.
He's, like you said beforeabout him being Clark Kent, like
embodying Clark Kent.
I feel like in that crossoverhe embodied Superman Right.

Speaker 1 (01:07:48):
Right For all intents and purposes, and a Superman
that had lost everything butstill kept the hope alive, like
that was the truest part.
And it made me so happy BecauseBrandon Routh, in that same
universe, was already playingRafe Homer.
I know, Already been doing somuch legwork as that character
both in Arrow and Legends ofTomorrow.

Speaker 2 (01:08:04):
Yeah, the way he was able to just turn it on and felt
like Superman was kind of wild.
It's awesome, Also one of thebest suits.

Speaker 1 (01:08:15):
Oh my, that kingdom come suit is fun because it's
george reeve's suit, but withthe kingdom come you know,
finished to it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:23):
It's awesome, it's so cool yeah and yeah, just you
feel like the anguish in thatcharacter when you know, because
he's kind of sent out as the uhkind of like.
He's bouncing around to allthese different earths trying to
save as many people as he can.
He keeps failing these earthskeep getting destroyed.
And he returns and he like slamshis fist on the ground and like

(01:08:44):
the uh, elizabeth tolickversion of lois lane is there.
And she's like why don't youlike take a break?
And he's like I can't, like Ihave to go back out there, um,
and then she asked him about thesymbol, like why you know why
they're red and black, and hesaid you know, so you always
know that hope cuts through thedarkness.
That's why he added the blackto the symbol.
And then you see him at the endalmost with like a prototype

(01:09:06):
version of the david corn sweatsuit, yeah, where it's the blue
and the yellow right, and he andhe does the Superman Returns,
like fly around the Earth, whichis great.
So, super stoked for BrandonRouth.
So seven years pass fromSuperman Returns to Henry Cavill
, the marred history that isHenry Cavill as Superman.

(01:09:28):
I mean you know what he mightyou know what?

Speaker 1 (01:09:30):
I'm going to take back that statement because I
think Brandon Routh hit theAndrew Garfield thing.
Yeah, like when he came back,like it felt fulfilled when he
came back.
Like he came back to the pointwhere he can get a little bit
more.
Henry Cavill's I think is stilltoo fresh.
Like I would love, years downthe line, that Henry Cavill
plays like an older version ofClark Kent.

(01:09:51):
Like I do still see HenryCavill as like a kingdom come
version of Superman.
Like I still see that in him.
Man, what a titular, what awild ride.
Yeah, and again first up top.
I feel horrible for him forlike kind of what he had to go
through from this role.

(01:10:12):
Like he just and and like Imean you know me, like you know
how much.
Like that was my favoriteSuperman.
Like I loved Henry Cavill asSuperman so much Like and cause
that movie came out when I was14, I think man of Steel came
out when I was 14.
I remember seeing it in theatersand I was like I'm like this is
awesome, this is so freakingawesome no-transcript best, but

(01:11:03):
they're not the most importantto you.
I want to know what.
I want to know why you thinklike in the modern age, playboy
cardi or something like that yousee what I'm saying Like you
can say this person is yourfavorite, but like for me,
talking about filmmaking, I meanI can sit here and be like
Martin Scorsese is my favoritedirector, or you know.
Or Quentin Tarantino is myfavorite director, but like I

(01:11:26):
don't.
Obviously they made films frommy childhood into on, but like
when they were, truthfully, atthe like, the true heights of
their careers, I was either tooyoung or not alive yet.
Yeah, so for me, like henrycavill was my superman, like he
literally was my superman as Igrew up into my older, like he
was my superman for the longesttime.
So, like I remember, like I Iwasn't.

(01:11:49):
I think I was in new york whenI saw this movie for the first
time and I walked out of thetheater and my mind was blown.
That, truthfully, was mySuperman.
His performance embodied whatwe thought was the modern age of
where superhero films weregoing to a little bit more
realistic, a little bit moreserious.
For all intents and purposes,he was Superman to me, kind of
to see that happen.

(01:12:09):
He doesn't get a sequel like asolo sequel, which is wild.
Absolutely insane that he did'tget a sequel like a solo sequel
, which is in wild.
Absolutely insane that he didnot get a solo sequel he dies in
the second he dies in hissecond film.
I don't understand the reproachto that and never, I never will
understand why that was theapproach.
Um, he obviously for differentreasons.

(01:12:31):
The justice League comes out in2017.
They CGI'd over his facebecause Mission Impossible got
in the way.
Another just insane, absolutelyinsane thing to happen.
It's like the weirdest littlethings kept happening to Henry
Cavill as Superman, like hecouldn't stick the landing.
So what movies was he in?

(01:12:52):
He was in man of Steel, batmanvs Superman.
Like he couldn't stick thelanding, like so what movies was
he in?

Speaker 2 (01:12:55):
He was in man of Steel, batman versus Superman,
Justice League, mm-hmm, blackadam, wow, and that was superman
and black adam was also thisweird thing, because it felt
like, yeah, I don't know what itfelt like, well, it was to the
point like that's when the rockhad like ultimate say and like

(01:13:17):
the world, like theentertainment industry, well,
the rock was like gonna save dccomedy.

Speaker 1 (01:13:22):
He not only was gonna to, yeah, he was going to save
DC.
Like the DCEU was going to goback into like the front and,
like you know, he was going tobe a pillar character and, like
Henry Cavill.
And I remember when thathappened, I know DC Studios
started to like take the turn,like I think the point was that
whatever, because you know how,like they'll put movies on the
schedule, like the third andrewgarfield movie ended up being

(01:13:48):
tom holland's first one.
Like that's how they work itout.
Like, for all intents andpurposes, the david corn sweat
movie probably would have camein, came out earlier, and that
would have been henry cavill'snext superman movie, so he was
supposed to come back, playsuperman.
And then same thing happened toandrew garfield.
They were like nope, we got anew guy, you're out after the
rock, basically because theyhave the same agent.

(01:14:08):
I think, yeah, the rockbasically promised like no,
you're gonna be superman againand you will just be superman
the best he'd ever looked atsuperman too the suit is
incredible.

Speaker 2 (01:14:17):
He looked incredible um it's been a while since
anyone made a world this nervous.
Um, just a weird 10 year periodfor him yeah, that he just
never.

Speaker 1 (01:14:32):
He just never got to the heights that I feel like he
deserved to get, and the thingthat sucks is he started to
evolve as an actor too, like hereally started to turn himself
into like a really, a reallygood actor.
I mean you see him in missionimpossible fallout yeah, um, how
great he is as a villain.
And, like you know, he justnever got his chance like his
true swing to play.

Speaker 2 (01:14:53):
It sounds bizarre since he'd been playing the
character since 2013 but henever got.

Speaker 1 (01:15:00):
He never got, like a fair shot, yeah four appearance
appearances of superman in 10years in a connected universe,
and one is a cameo.
One is a cameo and then onehe's dead for most of the film.

Speaker 2 (01:15:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:15:14):
So I'll never understand Like I will always be
on the train.
I feel horrible for kind of youknow the career that he had,
like the career path, like I'mglad he's off to better roles
now and to better things.
But just I of you know thecareer that he had, like the
career path, like I'm glad he'soff to better roles now and the
better things.
But just I think you know it'sfunny.
I think that's the truemisunderstanding of what
Superman is like.
And you know we're insidebaseball.

(01:15:35):
I was having this conversationwith somebody we're inside, like
we know like we'll take anyiteration of the character and
break it down Like the.
But one thing people that likeus not us, but people like us
that do this always forget isthat we're inside baseball.
This is what we eat, live andbreathe every day.

Speaker 2 (01:15:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:15:54):
We're not the general audience.
The general audience willalways take the more important
precedence.
The general audience gets youthe billion dollars.
The inside baseball people donot get you a billion dollars.
So, um, that being said, I thinkyou know Zack Snyder's
interpretation is one man'sinterpretation of what Superman

(01:16:15):
should be.
Um, you know, it's a subjectiveunderstanding to believe that
one version is correct and oneversion is incorrect.
However, if you want to look atthe worldview of like, you know
what Christopher Reeve'sSuperman was, what Superman.
If you pick up a comic booktoday and look inside of what
Superman like, if you look at anact, you look at action.

(01:16:36):
Comments 10, 21,.
Is Superman going to look morelike David Cornswet or more like
Henry Cavill?
He's going to look more likeDavid Cornswet.
He's going to act more likeChristopher Reeve and David
Cornswet.
He's not going to act likeHenry Cavill.
And that's not to HenryCavill's fault.
No, no, not at all.
That's a creator interpretation, the one that's more broad and
the one that looks like it's theone that will last.

(01:16:58):
And you know we saw it happenwith Christopher Reeve how long
that lasted, even after hestopped playing the character,
how long it lasted, how long itinfluenced.
That's the type of Supermanthat brings us into David
Coren's sweat.

Speaker 2 (01:17:09):
Yeah, and then.
So Wild man of Steel and Cavillis.
You know there's clearlysomething going on, and so we
once again.
It's crazy how movie studioswork, like when you timeline
things like this so it's clearthat movie studios work.
We need timeline things likethis so it's clear that the
Cavill Superman is not working.
So they turn back to the smallscreen and they integrate

(01:17:33):
Superman into the Arrowverse.

Speaker 1 (01:17:35):
Yes, so did you hear?
Because, first of all, we loveTyler.
Tyler Hoechlin is on theProject Infinite whiteboard.
He's just incredible.
I had the cape on for him, nopun.
Just he's incredible.
I've been I had the cape on forhim, no pun intended since Teen
Wolf.
That's my guy.
Um, again, another actor thatgot better at acting over the
years as well too.
I love.
I love that too, when somebodyjust doesn't step in and they're
like Anna Paquin, who can justact since they were a child,

(01:17:58):
like somebody that actually hasto get better at the craft as
well too.
I think that's always fun.
Um, so tyler hecklin he talkedabout.
He said he, I, he, I think heworked with greg berlanti before
, yeah, and like.
He called him and he said likehey, you want to play superman?
He's like yeah, why not?
Like he's like you might onlyplay him for an episode or two,
that's it, and then you're done.
He's like shoot, why not?

Speaker 2 (01:18:19):
who cares, I'll do it yeah, he kind of shows up as
this, like almost like a cameocharacter, like hey, superman is
showing up in this episode, um,but immediately.
We've talked about this I don'tknow how many times now,
immediately, just got it.

Speaker 1 (01:18:35):
I understand Mr White from the first sentence he
uttered.

Speaker 2 (01:18:40):
You're like wait, wait a minute, hold, hold the
phone, um, and he shows up invarious things.
You know, he does a couple ofthe crossovers and then the cw,
green lights, superman and loisand we were like oh, um, we come
under the understanding thatit's going to be kind of
superman like later on in life.
Um got two twin boys, twin sons.

(01:19:02):
It is not going to be related,connected to the Arrowverse at
all, because the rest of theArrowverse this show ends up
outliving all the Arrowverseshows.

Speaker 1 (01:19:12):
It's the best of what the Arrowverse was.
It was Superman and Lois andhe's just.
He's incredible man, that firstappearance in Supergirl, when
he's like he's at the newspaperstand and he's on the phone with
Perry White and he rips theshirt open.
I'm like wait a minute, wait asecond.

Speaker 2 (01:19:31):
And he, just again in the same vein that Christopher
Reeve, feels like he embodiedthe character.
He embodies the character.
The duality is super impressive.
Um, the, what he's able to do,what superman is, across the

(01:19:51):
four seasons of that show isjust nothing short of remarkable
it's incredible.

Speaker 1 (01:19:56):
It's incredible.
I, I love, I love his approachas well too.
Like you said, he's a littlebit older, so he's seen so many
things, but still he's beingchallenged.
He's being challenged on somany fronts and it's such, it's
one of those approaches that youdon't think like fatherhood,
like that approach in of itselfwas such a challenge.
Like you know, the mostimportant part about superman
and lois is superman and lois,it's their relationship.

(01:20:17):
They take what dean kane hadand they revolutionize it,
essentially for this show.

Speaker 2 (01:20:21):
I mean they run the.
They borrow a little bit fromall-star Superman with the yeah,
with the angle of Lois havingcancer.
Yep, and Superman can't fightthat, can't wrap his head around
the fact that he the only thinghe can do for her is be by her
side.

Speaker 1 (01:20:36):
He can't save her it says so much legwork for Clark
Kent as well too, and like thehumanity of which Clark Kent has
and has adopted and I mean youknow what they were doing in
season four.
Like I love the season one'sapproach because the budget was
a little bit higher, the revealwas pretty cool with Morgan Edge
being his half-brother.
Like they, they do funnarrative stuff.
They keep the hope alive ofwhat Superman is as well too,

(01:20:57):
and they kind of ground it alittle bit like they're they're
in Smallville, like they're in asmall town and Superman, this
broad figure, is just like a dadin the Midwest just trying to
raise his family.

Speaker 2 (01:21:06):
And that comes all the way around to the final
season where he's forced to outhimself to the world Right,
which I mean how many storiestackle that Right, when Superman
identity is outed to the?

Speaker 1 (01:21:21):
world Right and that can go so wrong, and somehow
they got it right.

Speaker 2 (01:21:26):
No, they crushed it.
And then obviously, the finalewe talked about where like this
is like Superman, this is yourlife, Essentially like like his
he.
The whole final episode is ameditation on Superman dying
Right and it's unbelievable.
Like like that.

(01:21:46):
That couldn't have gone better,like it's one of the best
finales of a superhero anythingever.
It's so good the way he justkind of narrates and walks
through the final years of hislife.

Speaker 1 (01:21:58):
I'm just like yeah, it's all right.
Yeah, all right.
Guys, tyler hecklin as supermanis such a great example of like
, really truthfully embodyingand adopting, you know, the
ideologies of what superman are,but making them your own as
well too.
And again, it's the fatherangle, it's he.
What he was in super, insupergirl, was like he was
supposed to be, like the figure,that was so.

(01:22:18):
And again, I think they'regoing to take this approach for
the, for the supergirl movielike he's the figure, like he's
the one, like.
I'm watching the scene of likewhen he shows up at the DOD and
like all the agents are like andhe's like how are you?

Speaker 2 (01:22:28):
How are you today?

Speaker 1 (01:22:29):
That's Superman, like that's exactly what he would do
.
And then Superman and Lois justtakes that and, like world, it
adds an extra dynamic whichmakes him, you know, even more
super, which is awesome.
So, um, then we transitionedinto the, the, the next

(01:22:53):
iteration of Superman, um, jamesGunn, you know, teamed with
David Cornswet, you know sayingthose two things together feel
as synonymous, as, like RichardDonner and Christopher Reeve,
like it's James Gunn's Superman,like you don't really get that
a lot, like I hear a lot ofpeople say Richard Donner's
Superman.
You know, sam Raimi'sSpider-Man, like this is James

(01:23:14):
Gunn's Superman, which isawesome.
So I think, james, one thing Ireally appreciated was like
James Gunn's truthfulness, likehe said I didn't have a way in
they.
One thing I really appreciatedwas like James Gunn's
truthfulness, like he said Ididn't have a way in.
They asked me before.
They asked me when I was doingthe suicide squad and I said no,
like I, I don't have a way intoSuperman.
I don't have an, I don't havean in and I'm not going to get
in.
We've seen it in his career how, when he has an into the
characters, how incredible theydon't have like room for mental

(01:23:46):
capacity for like I'm not.
Why would I?
I don't have like a, I don'thave like an, like a.
I don't really want to take ona character that I don't believe
like I can truthfully tackle,because I don't know them right.
And he said one day he's like Igot it, like I'll take it, I
got it um, which led him to notonly be the director and writer
of superman, but be the ceo ofdc studios with david sa, david
Safran or he's the sole CEO, orit's him and David Safran, right

(01:24:06):
.

Speaker 2 (01:24:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:24:07):
Or Peter Safran.

Speaker 2 (01:24:08):
Yeah, yeah, it's like a co-thing Right, co-owned
Right, but he's like thecreative head, essentially.

Speaker 1 (01:24:15):
Yeah, safran's the business part and James is the
creative part.
I think he's cognizant thatthis movie needs to make money,
and a lot of that at it.
Hopefully this movie debuts.
You know, 160 plus millionthat's a tall order, but you're
the week after 4th of July.
This could be the perfectsummer blockbuster as well too,
so I think they really got it.
I mean, david Cornswet, youwant to again, you want to talk

(01:24:41):
about a guy that looks likeSuperman, and what I think david
corn's, what really understandsis like he seems like a good
person, like he seems like agenuinely like good human being.
I mean, he grew up inphiladelphia.
Um, him, much as christopherreeve is classic is their their
theater trained first, theirtheater actors first?
Um, and he, I love his forhimself, I love his truthfulness

(01:25:03):
.
He said if I never get anotherrole like I'm prepared for this
to be, you know, not on evenlike a good half, but on a bad
half, this could be my last rolethat I ever play.
So I'm grateful to even stepinto the shoes.
Um, you see him with the kidson set.
Yeah, um, complaints about, youknow, zach schneider.

(01:25:25):
Superman was like we neverreally like he did save people,
but like he only saved people,like, if this makes sense in,
like the ultimate of ultimatedistress, like and one of my
favorite scenes out of henryhenry cavill's whole run is in
batman versus superman, the, the.
Should there be a supermansequence?
Like I was like more, more ofthat, like more of him actually,
like it was a moral quandarythat you know that kind of rose
out of it, but like what I'mseeing out of david corinth's

(01:25:46):
what is like he's just savingpeople to save people.
To save people.
There's no, you know, obviouslythey're dealing with the moral
backdrop on top of it and in thenew superman movie as well too.
Um, but I think the moreimportant height of it is like
he's just saving people.
I don't want to talk to thepresident of a nation I don't
want to talk to, I just want tosave people because it's the
right thing to do.

(01:26:06):
Um, he has emotion.
Yeah, I didn't think I'd eversee that out of a superman like
you know what that reminded meof.
That reminds me of smallvillesuperman like he has actual
human emotions and wants andneeds.
It seems like so I was.
That that made me very, veryhappy to see Um.
You know I love that piecewhere he's just like you know.
He says he's just like you knowpeople were going to die, so I

(01:26:29):
went and saved them, likethere's no if and or, but this
is what I do.

Speaker 2 (01:26:33):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, obviously we don't have a, we
don't have a full movie to tokind of absorb his Superman yet,
um, but or his superman yet, um, but everything we've seen so
far leads me to believe thathe's gonna be pretty, pretty
iconic, um, yeah, especiallyright and I mean it's the fact
that, like he, it looks likehe's gonna appeal to like broad

(01:26:53):
audiences, like there's no darkand gritty batmans waiting in
the whims, just like no, that'sjust a good, hopeful superman.

Speaker 1 (01:27:01):
And like james gunn I don't know if you saw the cbs
sunday morning interview thatthey did that this past sunday
was incredible because he saidjames gunn basically said, like
you know, over anything thatthat happens, over anything
that's gonna like I want it tobe like it's.
He said it's kind of radical intoday's day and age to be good
like that's the radical half ofit.
So I want a super Superman.

(01:27:21):
That is just good, for goodnesssake.
In the one clip he said whatthe hey dude Like he doesn't say
, like he's not saying, like youknow something like what the
hell he's saying, what the heydude Like that's Superman, like
that's truthfully the goodnessof his nature and I think David
Cornswet is really embodying itLike I don't know if you ever

(01:27:42):
seen that clip from thePolitician like before and
people.
And he said, like people usedto come up to me and be like you
look like Superman.
He's like well, you're going tobe.
This is going to be a crazything to learn in a second, but
he's got it.
Rachel Brosnan as Lois Lane isprobably one of the most again,
one of the most excited I'vebeen for a casting casting, um,

(01:28:05):
and this one, though my most themy favorite casting, I think,
is probably Nicholas Holt as LexLuthor.
I think that's such an inspiredchoice and it came, you know,
um, much like um, who am Ithinking of?
That ended up oh, much like TomHiddleston, who was supposed to
.
You know who'd auditioned forThor.
Like no, we want to keep you.
And then, like you know, wewant to see what we can do with
you on a prolonged scale.
So I think nicholas holt issuch an incredible pick as well,
too, to play lex luther.

(01:28:25):
So the three of them are goingto stay along for a while, um,
and then rounding out the restof the dcu as well too.
Like you know, this is auniverse where superheroes have
been around for 300 years, but,like you know, superman coming
onto the scene is the mostimportant one that there had
been, and they're going to playon that as well too.
So I hope they take their time.
Obviously, we're going to get aBatman movie, hopefully in some

(01:28:47):
years, whether that be, youknow, robert Pattinson or not,
I'm, I'm all for it.
We're going to get a WonderWoman movie he was talking about
.
Like I understand that's theTrinity, like I need to get them
fast track, but gets to do hisJames Gunn horror monster
universe thing, which I think isso cool.
So I love how creative James is, but I also love how he

(01:29:07):
understands, like, theimportance of what they're about
to do.

Speaker 2 (01:29:10):
Yeah, yeah for sure.
So I mean we can, we'll revisitthis, obviously after we see
the movie.
And then, just just honorablemention to the, the, I would say
the trio of Superman voiceactors yes, Yep, Um Tim Daly,
who played him in the Supermananimated series, Um, the iconic
um, George Newbern, who playedhim in justice league unlimited,

(01:29:32):
um, as well as injustice andall so I I'll all sorts of
things.
And Jack Quaid, obviously heplays it my adventures as
Superman.
Um, so he plays in my adventures, my adventures as Superman.
Um, you know, for a long timethe Tim Daly and George Newbern
version of Superman were thekind of the tethered that we had
the Superman um, in thenineties, in the early two

(01:29:53):
thousands especially.
Um, yeah, so I mean it's a.
It's a long, long history withthis character.
Um, and you know, not a lot ofin terms of how long the
character's been around, howlong, how long the character's
been around live action.
It's kind of a kind of a mixedbag of of success.

(01:30:13):
Yeah, um, you know, for everychristopher reeve there's,
there's a, you know there's abrandon ralph, etc.
Etc.
Um, you know, for every TomWelling, there's Henry Cavill,
you know, who was great butobviously was just marred by
just unfortunate circumstancesand studio not being able to do
the thing.

Speaker 1 (01:30:32):
Yeah, I think, much like Spider-Man, we've never got
a bad Superman actor.
Like we've never got a badSuperman, which is, you know,
very, very thankful becauseBatman can't say the same thing.
You know what I mean.
Like the batman, you know,lineage can't say this exact
same thing for the role I'm notsaying the actor themselves, but
for the role itself.
So, um, to be that lucky to getsome great actors like that as

(01:30:53):
well, too, is awesome yeah, so Imean henry cavill is is your
favorite, obviously I mean it's.
It's tough.
I'll say that now, and I don'twant't want to dip into the
realm of recency bias, but HenryCavill is literally the
Superman that I had.
That's my Superman.

Speaker 2 (01:31:09):
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean it's tough.
I mean there's aspects of allof them that I really enjoy.
I know who you're going to say.
Yeah, I mean, I think I'vereally come into appreciating
the Tyler Hoechlin iteration ofSuperman.

Speaker 1 (01:31:24):
He's so good.

Speaker 2 (01:31:28):
It's the first you know I've seen the Reeve movies
and they're great and he'sChristopher Reeve, obviously.
I think Christopher Reevedeserves like recognition as,
like a one of one, like you, canhave your favorites, but he's
objectively the best.

Speaker 1 (01:31:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:31:42):
For now.
Yeah, we'll see, I mean I justthat's kind of how I feel about
it, like we can all have ourfavorites, but like there's one
that you kind of got to.
You know, tip the cap too.
Yeah, so I mean ChristopherReeve, like he may not be my
favorite, but I can alsorecognize that he's Superman.
But no, he's, he's Superman.
Um, but no, I, the TylerHoechlin iteration made me feel

(01:32:04):
a way about Superman that I'dreally never had before, right,
um, so I mean, that's that'sgoing to be the one you know,
that kind of holds a specialplace for me.
Um, but there's so many like I,I I didn't get swept up in the

(01:32:25):
Smallville thing the way a lotof other people did.
I was too young for it too.
Yeah, I mean I was.
You know, I was 14, 15, like.
I was right, I was right thereum you were kind of the target
audience yeah.
So I mean I was right.
I just I don't know, I justnever really viewed it in the
same way, like I kind of cameinto that stuff really late so I
never had the reverence forSmallville that so many other
people have.
That's why I kind of leantowards Tyler Hoechlin, because

(01:32:48):
fully formed, like being intothis stuff now, like that's kind
of like my, that's who I feelmost strongly about, like as
Superman.
So I mean that's it, that'sSuperman.
The history and heritage ofSuperman, and we'll be seeing
James Gunn's iteration in alittle more than a week.
So that's what we're going tobe talking about next week is

(01:33:12):
going to be Superman crazy sothat's it for us this week.
You can follow us on Twitter atProjectNF underscore pod.
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You can follow us on Twitter atProjectNF underscore pod.
You can follow us on Facebook.
You can follow us on TikTok andYouTube at the Project Infinite
podcast.
You can follow us on InstagramAt the Project Infinite pod.
Um Ironheart thoughts realquick.

Speaker 1 (01:33:34):
Pretty Three episodes in.
I'm getting the same feel thatI got when I was watching Agatha
all along.
I'm like you guys should havepaid more attention to this, to
the show also.
Shame on Marvel for notpromoting this more and not
having more trust in themselves.
Like the lead-up to this, Ididn't even know what day this
show was coming out.
Like, this is a major Marvelproduction, I had no idea which

(01:33:54):
day.
That's a problem.

Speaker 2 (01:33:55):
That is a big problem yeah, yeah, no, I, I liked it.

Speaker 1 (01:33:59):
I'm having the first three episodes.

Speaker 2 (01:34:00):
I'm having some fun.
Um, I think dominic thorne isdynamic.
Um, there's this reallyinteresting narrative
surrounding, like the use of aito compensate grief that I was
completely blindsided by um inthese first three episodes in
regards to her best friend,natalie, who she turns into an

(01:34:22):
AI accidentally, essentially,and she's using that as like a
coping mechanism for her griefand I'm just like wait a minute,
hold on.
So I think she's really goodLooking forward to these last
three episodes and seeing whatthey have in store.
I think Anthony Ramos is goodas the hood.
We haven't seen enough of himlike wrestling with that

(01:34:48):
darkness, right that you kind ofsee at the end of the third
episode where it really feelslike he's gonna lean in, like
that's what he leaned into moremy fear is that this show
villain wise is gonna play likehow miss marvel did, where the
villain is such a second ship tolike what the true narrative of
the show is.

Speaker 1 (01:35:04):
That's.
My only fear for him is thatthey're not going to play him up
enough, um, and then thatcharacter is going to be killed
and dumped out and then the hoodis just going to go like the
physical hood is going to goelsewhere.
Um, I do think this showprobably to save the fact that
this show should have came outin 2022 or early 2023, right
after Black Panther is thatthey're going to eat a, have a
big cameo in the show or beMephisto is going to show off.

(01:35:25):
Those are probably the last twopieces of the show, but
Dominique Thorne is incredible.
She's great as Riri Williams.
Um, I love how unapologetic sheis as well, too.
I love her kind of arc.
It's very, very interesting.
Like she.
It's funny because people areforgetting where Tony Stark came
from, like Like his whole thingwas also money.
It was also money.
It was also fame.

(01:35:46):
It was also like he wasn'thumbled.
Yet she's about to be humbled,and Natalie and that character
is doing such a great job ofgrounding her a little bit and
understanding like the moral,like wrongs and rights.
I think that's such aninteresting take on that
character as well, too, and likehow she's like I need to be

(01:36:08):
tony stark because I need, Ineed money to be tony stark.
No, you need what you havealready to be tony stark.

Speaker 2 (01:36:10):
You already have it and you don't need to be tony
stark.
You need to be riri williams.
Yeah, and then looking forwardto the alden einreich character,
like coming into his own asobadiah's son I really
appreciated that.

Speaker 1 (01:36:21):
the first line out of his mouth it's like I've been
doing.
It's not like I will haverevenge for my.
He's like no, my father is theworst and I'm don't want to be
anything like him, butunfortunately, you know, he's
slipping into ways that hedoesn't even realize that he is
so yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:36:36):
I really enjoy it.
I think your point is is welltaken that they should have,
they should be prouder of thisshow I think, yeah, then they
appear to be right.
That's like, yeah, they kind oflike dumped it onto disney plus
and they were like, hey, ryancoogler's involved in this yeah,
and it's funny, after sinnerscame out, they were like ryan
coogler did this thing and youdo feel a lot of his thumbprint

(01:37:00):
on this.
This show looks in it.

Speaker 1 (01:37:02):
This is probably one of the best looking things out
of the the multiverse saga aswell, too.
Like this show physically looksso good, the cgi looks yeah,
it's top tier stylized.
Yeah, you can tell he he did.

Speaker 2 (01:37:15):
He did a little bit more than just slap his name on.
It does feel like he you knowhe definitely was involved in
some creative capacity behindthe way things look, behind the
feel of it.
It does feel very adjacent toBlack Panther in that respect,
which I think is really reallycool too.

Speaker 1 (01:37:33):
So I'm really hoping that they stick the landing.
That's what I'm nervous about,especially, like I said, with
the villain with the hood.
I think Anthony Ramos deservesa little bit more, and my fear
too, too, is, if this rumorabout Sacha Baron Cohen playing
Mephisto is right, thatimmediately just takes Parker
Robinson and who cares?
Who cares that he was ever inthe show, and then Anthony Ramos
unfortunately never again canbe in a Marvel thing if he gets

(01:37:55):
killed or he's just done afterthat, and that's a waste of
Anthony Ramos as well.

Speaker 2 (01:38:01):
So yeah, ironheart thoughts pretty good so far.
Looking forward to the backhalf of the season, but yeah,
next week is going to be allSuperman all the time we're
going to review it and,depending on when we record, it
might just have to be a full.
Either a full non-spoiler review, because we're going to be

(01:38:22):
seeing a little bit early, orit'll be pretty non-spoiler, and
then a heavy warning spoilersection is probably how we're
going to do it, just to you know, so we don't jump on people who
haven't seen it.
But yeah, that's going to do itfor us this week.
I've said all the socials, um,from me, from the, from the,

(01:38:50):
from the Henry Cavill of thepodcast.
I don't know how I feel aboutthat.
I mean, it's, it's, it's coming, it's coming for you.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:39:00):
I don't know what that even means.

Speaker 2 (01:39:01):
I don't know Was that ?

Speaker 1 (01:39:02):
a threat, it's a it's ?

Speaker 2 (01:39:03):
I don't know what that even means.
I don't know.
Was that a threat?
Who knows who's to say it's amystery much like Henry Cavill's
career as Superman.

Speaker 1 (01:39:12):
I hope he comes back as Superman at some point.
I think James Gunn would bringhim into a multiverse capacity.

Speaker 2 (01:39:19):
Yeah, I mean, that's a whole other thing.
It's a multiverse.
There's always a multiverse.
It's been miss after miss, umthe cavalry, the cavalry, um.
Alright guys, we'll see younext week for Superman.
Until then, goodbye peace.

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154 - Superman: A History of Actors Who Wore the Cape

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}154 - Superman: A History of Actors Who Wore the Cape