June 16, 2025 • 47 mins
"People know how they want to be remembered, and they have the right to be forgotten." - Dominique Luster
What happens to our stories when we're gone? Who decides what parts of history are preserved and remembered? Dominique Luster, founder of The Luster Company and an archivist for the people tackles these profound questions while sharing her mission to preserve Black history and community stories for future generations.
"History is written by the person who wrote it down," Dominique explains, highlighting why it's essential for communities to document their own narratives rather than leaving that responsibility to others who may misrepresent or completely overlook their stories. What sets Dominique's approach apart is her profound respect for community agency. Rather than imposing her archival vision, she empowers communities to determine how they want to be remembered. "People know how they want to be remembered," she shares, "and people also have the right to be forgotten." This philosophy places ownership of historical narratives firmly in the hands of those who lived them.
Beyond the technical aspects of archiving, Dominique shares a deeply personal connection to her work. Inspired by her fifth great-grandmother Charity, born into slavery in Kentucky in 1824, she reflects on the unbroken line of resilient women who "figured it out" through unimaginable circumstances so that future generations could exist. Listen now to discover how preserving the past creates a powerful bridge to our collective future.
More from Dominique & The Luster Company:
- Find @thelustercompany on LinkedIn, Instagram and at www.thelustercompany.com.
- Follow Dominique on Instagram @msdominiqueluster
Watch this episode on YouTube!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Aliya Cheyanne (00:00):
Hi everyone, welcome back to the show.
I'm your host, aaliyah Cheyenne, and I'm so excited today to be
joined by Dominique Lester.
Hi, dominique.
Hi, welcome to the show.
I'm so excited to have you.
Dominique Luster (00:13):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm excited to be here this isgoing to be fun.
Aliya Cheyanne (00:17):
It is.
We already got vibes here.
We had a little technicaldifficulty, but we're here now
and we're so excited.
So before we jump into theconversation, I would love to
just ask you a little bit moreabout who you are in the world
today and how you'd like to beknown.
Dominique Luster (00:34):
I am a woman and a Black woman and a Black
woman archivist I think thoseare usually how I see myself.
I'm also a daughter and asister and a cousin and a friend
and somebody's auntie A lot ofthings and I think I'd like to
(00:54):
be remembered in this world assomeone who truly cared about
how people are remembered inthis world.
Aliya Cheyanne (01:01):
Yeah, that's really beautiful.
I resonate with so many ofthose things as a fellow Black
woman and a sister, but I lovethis idea of legacy and
remembering and storytelling andarchiving and history.
So thank you so much for beinghere to share more about the
powerful work that you're doing.
No, thank you for theinvitation.
(01:21):
Yes, this is awesome.
So I want to jump into somequestions for you, because I
know my audience is going towant to know everything.
Let's go Tell us a little bitmore about the Lester Company.
So you describe yourself as anarchivist for the people, which
I think is really really cool.
You know, what does that meanto you and how did you kind of
(01:45):
get your start in doing that?
Dominique Luster (01:47):
Yeah, so an archivist is someone who works
to preserve the historicdocuments and artifacts, and
sometimes objects, of people,places, communities, governments
, organizations, businesses,what have you.
We can work in a variety ofdifferent areas and capacities.
I particularly work in what Ilike to call the greater
(02:08):
diasporic community, so that caninclude church records, family
records, family Bibles,cookbooks, uplifting Black
history, black stories, blackcommunities, and making sure
that those stories get told andpreserved in any kind of various
(02:29):
ways, whether that's withfamilies, with communities,
whomever.
So it's been fun.
I've been.
The Lester Company has beenaround kind of doing this work
for a few years now, since 2021,juneteenth of 2021, to be
specific.
I know I was like if there wasone thing I was going to time in
this world, it was going to bethe founding of this company,
(02:53):
but we've been around sinceJuneteenth 2021.
But I've actually been anarchivist probably since 13,
2014, something like that.
So not too too long, definitely.
Still, I would consider myselflike a younger professional, but
I've been told recently that Ican no longer sit at the young
(03:13):
kids table, so that was a littlehard for me to hear, but it was
.
It was hard.
I was like, what do you mean?
Like I'm a young professional.
And they were like, no, you'renot.
When does one?
You look it, you look it.
It's like when is one no longera young professional?
And they were like, no, you'renot.
When does one?
You look it, it's like when isone no longer a young
professional?
Is there a mark in which, afterthat point, you're not?
(03:33):
I don't know, but I was alittle upset at that conference
because they wouldn't let me bea young professional anymore.
I was like what do you mean?
I'm not a young professional.
What do you mean?
I just graduated five minutesago, but apparently that was a
decade ago.
And they were like you gotta goLike really.
But it was interesting.
I was at a conference giving atalk and I had mentioned
(03:57):
something.
There's this old piece ofsoftware I guess it's old,
apparently piece of software inthe archives field, and I
mentioned it during my talk andI remember someone specifically
in the audience being like thatofficially makes you old,
because we don't even know whatsoftware that is.
And I was like rude and we'relike yeah, do they?
Is that what y'all used to useback in the day?
I was like we used thissoftware five years ago.
Aliya Cheyanne (04:21):
Oh my goodness.
That's how fast things move andprogress.
I'm very curious.
I'm wondering is AI having animpact on your field right now?
Or like what does that kind oflook like for you now?
Dominique Luster (04:36):
Absolutely, I would say, contrary to popular
belief, ai and history kind ofare doing lots of things,
coinciding a lot right now.
I think there's kind of two,maybe two types of technology
that archives and history andpeople and civilizations are
almost always contending with.
But there's big waves oftechnological advances.
(04:58):
Right now we are dealing withAI, but previously we were
dealing with computers andmachine-readable formats of
things, but before that we aredealing with the printing press.
The printing press is a pieceof technology that would have
been considered innovative inits time.
The wheel or the motor vehiclewould have been considered
innovative technology at itstime.
(05:19):
So I think people in history arealways contending with whatever
is the newest version of sometechnological advance.
Right now we're just dealingwith AI, or that seems to be the
one that we're contending withright now, and it impacts the
archives field specifically in acouple of ways.
I think there's concerns around, you know, will AI replace jobs
(05:41):
and whatnot?
I mean, I think I personallyhave never seen a computer
process, an archival box full ofthings.
But there are other ways inwhich technology helps us do our
jobs a little bit faster andeasier.
For example, communities of allkinds and shapes create things.
(06:01):
They create stories and photojournals and photo albums and
Bibles and cookbooks and whatnot.
That stuff adds up and you wantto make sure that you really
capture people's names and datesand stories, and you know the
little nuanced parts thatgrandma used to put in the mac
and cheese that she didn't tellnobody about.
But if you actually got herrecipe cards you'd see on the
(06:24):
back she was like sprinkle ofthis dash of that.
That stuff has to get preserved, and there's only so much time
and capacity that any one personhas or any one archivist has,
and so technology can help us dothat a little bit faster.
But other than that, theserobots can't process a box.
Aliya Cheyanne (06:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah , it's very interesting to hear
how it's impacting your field inparticular, but it's important
too to remember that so manythings require human touch and
that AI's job is to be acompanion of sorts, in the sense
that it could help us do ourjobs a little bit faster and
(07:04):
easier, but it's not meant toreplace us.
So it's very interesting tolearn about how it's impacting
your field, but, in the spiritof using that example of
grandma's recipe and the nuanceand things like that, I would,
and you even using the exampleof, like family Bibles, like
that's a big thing for somepeople, like people have Bibles
from generations ago writtenwith family members' names, so
(07:29):
like, ooh, that's so powerful.
But, especially in this timeand in this era, right now, why
do you think your work is sourgent and vital, especially as
it pertains to, like, ourcommunities, black communities,
other communities of color?
Dominique Luster (07:43):
I think that humans, at least our modern
generations, we are at a reallyparticular pinch point in time
when it comes to like humancivilization development, and I
think that our elders, we arecoming out of it.
We're coming into a seasonwhere we live longer as humans.
We live a little bit longerthan we may have in the past.
(08:04):
However, time is not as long oras short, but it really is not
as long as we think it is, andso we might assume or think that
certain ideas, events orexperiences were a very long
time ago, like the desegregationof schools or the March on
Washington or the Jim Crow South.
We might presume that a lot ofthese things were a really long
(08:24):
time ago.
They actually quite weren't.
Probably find a community elderin your local church or at the
library who actively rememberswho watched their parents on
television at the March onWashington, something like that.
This is absolutely withincurrent living generations' mind
frame, current livinggenerations mind frame.
(08:49):
I think that capturing andpreserving and archiving these
experiences now is more critical, or is exceptionally critical
in all communities, but in Blackcommunities, because we're also
because in this, tied totechnology, we're in a place
where we create a lot of thingsvery fast.
We create photographs by thethousands.
I don't know about you, but inmy phone there's probably 10,000
(09:10):
photos in my little photo thingon my phone Photo library,
apple I don't know what it wascalled Previously, back in the
day or in previous generations,we had to be more selective,
right Like if you tookphotographs of an event.
There was like a physicalcamera and you were on film and
you developed that film and thatphoto maybe went into the
newspaper, like there's a lot oftouch points around that object
(09:34):
, and so you have to be veryselective and very meticulous
about what you include and whatyou don't.
Nowadays we will go to thefamily cookout and take 85
million photos of everybody'scousin and mama now and who
knows whatever happens to them.
I think, to get back to thequestion, is that we create a
(09:56):
lot of things and life movesvery fast now, and so we have
the capacity to lose or forgetthe connection to historic
objects, to historic events, tohistoric memories and moments
that helped, shaped us as acommunity.
Because our memory gets reallyshort, because our attention
span gets really short, becausewe create a lot of things very
fast, we're not as meticulous,we're not as intentional when we
(10:19):
create things, and so we canlose the meaning of desegregated
schools, things, and so we canlose the meaning of desegregated
schools.
We could lose the importance ofthe March in Washington or
things like those major events,bus boycotts.
We can lose the real weight ofthese events without capturing
them very carefully now, and ourelders who were there are
(10:39):
getting older.
They love them, but they aregetting older and they God
willing, you know at some pointthey won't be with us much more,
and so we have to be able tocapture those experiences while
we can, because once we losethat connectivity, it's very
difficult to get it back.
Aliya Cheyanne (10:59):
Yeah, that's so powerful and that's so important
.
I think we're especially in atime where some would hope that
we do lose that connectivity andthat we do lose that ability to
like, recall and connect withthe past how it relates to the
present, and I love the way youspeak about it just with so much
care and intention and passion.
(11:20):
I think that's really beautifuland important.
So thank you for what you'redoing.
It's so good and so cool.
Dominique Luster (11:26):
You know it's interesting.
I heard this the other day, butI've I've now said it a few
times, so I think I'm going totry and claim it.
Somebody else does.
But you know, I heard thissaying the other day where if
you want what is the phrase?
If you want to hide somethingfrom someone, put it in a book.
I heard that and I said, oh,that's interesting.
(11:49):
If you want to hide somethingfrom someone, put it in a book.
And I thought to myself but ifyou want to hide something from
a whole community or a wholecivilization, put it in the
archive.
Ain't nobody going to lookthere.
If you want to hide somethingfrom somebody, put it in a book.
If you want to hide somethingfrom many people, put it in the
archive.
Aliya Cheyanne (12:07):
Yeah, wow, I've definitely heard the book one
before.
I really liked that spin on thearchive, one that was so
interesting.
It also makes me think aboutforms of digital archiving.
I call this podcast DigitalArchive.
It's using my voice and yourvoice and the voices of other
people to tell stories that arereally important.
(12:28):
And I also think about the waythat people practice digital
archiving and the way that, youknow, we talk about taking
pictures at the cookout or, youknow, having our photo libraries
or even posting things onInstagram.
Like we're in the era of theSinners movie and there are
trends popping up on platformslike TikTok where people are
(12:51):
really showing pictures of theirfamily history to like the
soundtrack of that movie.
Like I'm seeing people showpictures of their parents and
their grandparents in the deepsouth who were sharecroppers or
who had black and white photosor all kinds of stuff, and it's
opening up so much conversationin a way that I think is really
(13:12):
really beautiful and powerful.
So I would love to just kind oftalk about the ways we
physically archive and the waywe digitally archive and kind of
like what's the difference orlike the defining difference for
you, and how we kind ofdocument a moment, whether
that's digitally or physically,and what it means to truly like
(13:34):
archive, a legacy.
Dominique Luster (13:36):
I think you've I mean honestly you already
described it.
I just want to just likepiggyback on what you've already
said to be honest.
I mean.
So you've already kind of laidit out, so I'm really just going
to kind of tag team here.
You know, walk alongside whatyou said.
But you're absolutely right, wehave digital archiving, we have
(13:58):
physical archiving, but beforethat, what you kind of like just
signed in the sky, was thisidea that history is this very
curated thing, like it'ssomething that is specifically
chosen things.
So you know, contrary to popularbelief, not everything that is
created is saved, even in adigital environment.
Not everything that is createdis saved, and this is maybe a
(14:21):
little more can be saved in adigital environment.
But at what costs?
Right, like there are costs,space costs, environmental costs
associated with that, and thenphysical objects.
We can't save absolutelyeverything.
There are billions of humansand have been billions of humans
.
If we saved absolutelyeverything that every single
human created, we'd run out ofspace incredibly quick.
(14:43):
And so what gets into an archiveand what's not included in the
archive is selected.
And that selection is a processthat archivists, historians and
curators kind of go through tochoose or select what goes into
an archive and becomes a part ofthat historic storytelling,
history writing process, andwhat goes in can be very
(15:07):
powerful, but also what's chosennot to go in an archive can
also be very powerful, and thegaps or silences that that
creates can be sometimes alittle louder than what's
included.
Just depends on what you'relooking for and how you're
looking.
But how we do that physically,honestly, history just benefits,
or history tends to prioritizeor tends to lean towards the
(15:31):
person or the people or thecompany that wrote it down.
So there's that phrase that Idon't know like history is
written by the victor.
I think that's the phrase thatis semi-true, semi-not true.
History is written by theperson who wrote it down.
That's actually pretty much alittle bit, a lot closer to the
(15:53):
truth.
And if the victor is the one,is the story that's left behind.
It's purely because that's thestory that was written down and
not destroyed.
Like a big part of the victoris destroying the other person's
story so that they can't proveit against you.
And in the physical environment,how we preserve our own things
is simply by writing it down,because if you don't tell your
(16:15):
own story, somebody else will ormay not and you might not like
what they have to say.
They may not record your storyor document your life, your
family, in the way that ishonoring and uplifting to you,
or in the way that you woulddescribe it.
Some families and companies,communities, organizations,
nonprofits, for-profits, whathave you?
Have nuances of how they talkabout themselves, how they talk
(16:38):
about their story.
It's a culture of how they wishto be remembered.
And if you don't write it down,did it really exist?
I mean, you can't prove it.
That's where that history ofthe history is written by.
The Victor thing comes from.
In the digital environment, thedigital environment gets a
little bit more tricky.
In the physical environment, wecan talk all about like save
(17:01):
grandma's photos, right, likethat's really what it is, and
write the names on the back ofit.
In the digital environment,sending archive on your email
does not mean you archive youremail in the grander scheme of
archiving the world.
I just want to say that, forthe sake of the recording, yes,
hitting the archive button inyour email is a good idea.
(17:25):
It just doesn't do what youthink it does.
It does not preserve yourrecords forever.
It really doesn't.
Digital preservation is anincredibly complex,
bajillion-step process thatincludes anything from
preservation of physical objectsto the long-term preservation
of born digital objects.
(17:45):
It gets really complicated.
Talk to an archivist.
We'd be happy to help you.
Aliya Cheyanne (17:52):
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
I thank you so much for takingthe time to just explain that a
little bit further and shareyour thoughts and really build
on what we were talking about.
Yeah, I think that's animportant sort of caveat to
explain too about digitalarchiving, because you see so
many things about, like, how tosave things and archive things,
(18:13):
like even going into yourarchive on Instagram and I'm
just like, okay, but like thereare, it's not literally the same
exact thing, like there's awhole.
No, it's not to kind of createa true archive.
And if you do want to do thatfor yourself, for your legacy,
for your family, for yourcommunity, like talk to someone
who is an expert in this areaand who can support you and
(18:35):
guide you in that process.
Dominique Luster (18:37):
Because there are absolutely.
There are ways for sure.
I mean, individual families canarchive their own things A
hundred percent.
They absolutely can.
It's the thing that I try toencourage people to do is just
be mindful of who owns theplatform that you're using.
Yeah, do you?
Yeah, probably not, and it'snot even like a pro one platform
(19:02):
or against another.
It's just purely like do you?
If you are, if you say you'vetaken photographs of your family
photo album and you tookdigital photographs of them and
you uploaded them to the cloudto be preserved, that is an
amazing step and please go forthand do that as a great, great
first step.
Yeah, or your family recipes,if you want to take photographs
(19:24):
of them and upload them to thecloud, I think that's a really
brilliant first step.
But just know that that's afirst step.
Always just be mindful of whoowns said thing.
And if they disappeared one day, would your stuff disappear
with them?
Is it a subscription that ifthat company went under one day,
that your stuff is gone orcould be sold or just
disappeared?
(19:45):
Or if there was anenvironmental issue one day and
all the servers went off, likeyou know?
Just be mindful of where yourstuff is no pros or cons in
either direction.
Just be mindful of who ownswhat you're putting where and
what protections do you have incase something should happen to
that other player?
Aliya Cheyanne (20:02):
Yeah, Very true, very true.
That's a really good point.
I want to get back to what wewere talking about.
I want to build on the factthat you said that families can
absolutely archive things ontheir own, like so many have
been generations.
That's why you have peopletoday who have family Bibles
from like 1908 and all kinds ofstuff like that.
(20:22):
But I do think that the workyou're doing intersects so
beautifully with juststorytelling and memory and
preserving legacy and truth andall those things.
I think that's so powerful andsomething I love to talk about a
lot on the show is justcreativity, and I think there's
a lot of creativity that comesinto play when you're connecting
(20:43):
with communities and familiesand preserving their stories,
and it really is just sacred andspecial work.
So I would love to know if youfind any opportunity for
creativity in your work, howyou're able to just come up with
new ways to do things that maybe innovative, that might
deviate from tradition in yourfield, or how you've had to
(21:04):
adapt as times have changed inpreserving legacy and
storytelling.
So I would love to talk alittle bit more about you
serving legacy and storytelling.
Dominique Luster (21:12):
So I would love to talk a little bit more
about you.
Honestly, I think the one thingthat I have tried that works
pretty much all the time is justletting the community decide
what they want to do and then mefinding creative ways to
support whatever it is that theywant.
So I don't necessarily andmaybe I should, maybe I
shouldn't, but I don'tnecessarily put the onus or the
burden of coming up with thatcreative outlet or that
(21:35):
innovative or imaginative toplayer.
Let's call it that, that toplayer of what you as a family
member might actually interactwith.
Most communities know what theywant.
They just don't necessarilyknow how to make it happen
because they are not archivists,like, that's not their job,
it's not, it's not.
Are not archivists?
That's not their job, theyshouldn't have to.
(21:56):
We are the librarians, thearchivists, the genealogists,
the public historians, what haveyou?
That's our job to know how tomake their dreams come true.
And so I think the one thingthat I try to do is just to
allow the community to whateverthey want to do, whatever you
want.
I will let you know if whateveryou want to do may not be as
possible in our currenttechnological world, but we will
(22:19):
also then try and figure it out.
Anyway, I think my job is tofigure out the how and to figure
out the what is for thecommunity to decide.
They know how they want to beremembered and if they want an
oral history repository that wekeep on a cloud, sure, great,
that's fine.
If that's what you want andthat's how you wish to be
(22:41):
remembered, that's fine, we cando that.
I'll help you figure out howthat works best so that it's in
your best interest.
If you want a physical archive,if you want an art archive, if
you want a community-drivenarchive by volunteers, I think
all of those options are great.
It's whatever drives the beliefand the why for them.
(23:02):
I mean, I wouldn't want to saymy opinions on it are irrelevant
, but I kind of actually do feellike my feelings on it are
irrelevant.
It's purely based on a beliefthat I believe in Black people
and Black storytelling and Ialso have a fundamental belief
that they know what they wantand what they're doing, or at
(23:24):
least they know what they wantand how they want it to look.
They know what their story is.
It's not for me to know.
My job is to help them buildwhatever infrastructure that
they need to get whatever theywant done.
Aliya Cheyanne (23:39):
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense, it does, and I
think there's importance indoing it that way as well.
It does give you theopportunity in the room to play
and be creative when necessary,to figure out how to accomplish
certain things, but it also justhonors the fact that families,
communities, usually know whatthey want and what they like to
(24:00):
see, and you're supporting themin that process.
So I think there's a lot ofpower, absolutely.
Dominique Luster (24:04):
Yeah, it's just people know how they want
to be remembered and I alsobelieve that people have the
right to be forgotten in and outof how they choose and whatever
works best or sees fit for themand their legacy building.
And if they want their archiveat an institution like a
university or something, that'sfine, we can do that.
(24:26):
If you want it at a museum okay, cool, let's do that.
If you want to keep it in yourcommunity cool, let's do that.
If you want to keep it in yourcommunity cool, let's do that.
It's completely up to them.
Aliya Cheyanne (24:35):
Yeah, that's so powerful.
People know how they want to beremembered.
People also have the right tobe forgotten.
Wow, I got that.
Wow, I got a little chill.
This is really powerful.
Makes me think about things.
So, yeah, beautiful.
Dominique Luster (24:54):
Thank you for sharing with us Good.
Aliya Cheyanne (24:56):
All right, it's no fun, I'm joking, it's just so
good.
But yeah, that sentiment juststuck with me a little bit.
So I also love to talk aboutjust purpose and alignment on
this show.
And you are in many ways, atleast it seems to me, you are
very much walking in purpose,like what you're passionate
about and what feels veryaligned for you, at least in
this season, in this era of yourlife.
(25:16):
And I get a sense of the whyalready that you do the work
that you do.
You've talked about it so just,powerfully and so beautifully
so far.
But I would also love to knowhow you kind of take care of
yourself during this process,especially as some stories might
be heavier or more emotionalthan others, as you're archiving
those stories.
And we talk a lot aboutcommunity, but I would love to
(25:39):
know what self-care or communitycare looks like for you while
you're holding this stories,while you're doing this work,
while you're remembering yourwhy, all of those things.
Dominique Luster (25:49):
That's a great question and I will admit that
I'm not always the best at it.
But I also I think that I thinkthat there's kind of two ways
or two types of that caring.
One can be episodic, I think,where you might work and grind
for a while and then have periodof intense care.
(26:11):
Maybe that's a trip, or youwork for a year and then maybe
you have that kind of big burstof self-care.
And then I think the secondtype is more everyday, like that
small nuance, everyday carewhere it's like okay, this is
the practice that I do.
Five minutes of meditationevery morning, that kind of
helps me level set.
(26:31):
So I think there's two types.
There's probably a bajillionmore, but these are the two that
kind of come to my mind.
I am probably the one personthat does both.
I'm a person of routine andperson of habit.
I am the kind of person thatloves a color-coded spreadsheet.
(26:52):
I just am.
I love organization, I love afile.
I just I love it.
I am the person who would move.
I remember when I moved once Ilike put color-coded stickers
like red, yellow, green stickerson all the boxes throughout my
house which, like green, meansthis is good to go put it on the
truck.
Yellow means like this isalmost okay, just triple check.
(27:15):
Red means don't touch it.
Like I am that person.
There's a spreadsheet on thedoor as you enter the room.
I mean, like I love, I am alibrarian archivist.
I love, I love metadata.
I love it, it's my thing anyway, but for self-care, because I
think metadata can come, or thatlevel of organization can come,
(27:37):
across as the opposite ofself-care, but I actually find
it deeply relaxing.
I find it deeply relaxing.
But I am also a person ofroutine.
I like habit, I like routine, Ilike doing the same thing every
morning.
My mornings are very boring andthey're very routine, the same
thing.
I even eat the same oatmealevery morning.
(27:58):
That's what matters.
It helps.
I mean, I've been verysurprised at how much it helps.
I have to travel a lot with thecompany because archives are
all over the country and I trymy best, I even sit.
It's funny.
I even try to sit in the sameseat on the plane.
I try my best, I even sit.
It's funny.
I even try to sit in the sameseat on the plane.
I try to stay in the same hotel, like I need.
(28:19):
I need my routine.
You need structure, you needyour I get it A lot of structure
and routine it really helpsbecause I think otherwise life
can feel very overwhelming andchaotic and anxiety inducing,
and I think routine notnecessarily.
I've heard recently there's adifference between peace and
quiet.
Sometimes we are here thinkingthat we're protecting our peace,
(28:40):
when really we're just likedefending quiet.
Yeah yeah, and I think routinecan be a little bit of a balance
between that for me and justkeeping things peaceful and
quiet for at least my smalllittle ecosystem of the world.
However, I also do love a planeticket because you could find
me on somebody's beach.
That does not mean I don't alsoepisodically go to somebody's
(29:06):
island yes, to somebody's beachand like I will disconnect for
weeks yeah yeah, it is nice.
I will disconnect to the best ofmy ability three or four weeks
a year and just be out good goodfor you yeah, I try both, I try
both yes, a thousand percentresonate with you on so many
(29:31):
things.
Aliya Cheyanne (29:31):
I also like some structure, some routine.
I also like to dip on a bit.
You know like get away me in myhouse.
Dominique Luster (29:36):
Yeah, we have multiple boxes and packs of my
breakfast, because I can'thandle it this works for me like
(30:00):
it does.
Aliya Cheyanne (30:01):
I was listening to another show, like yesterday
I think, and literally the guestwas, like you know, said to the
host I heard on your show thatyou said that you can eat the
same thing every day and she waswas like that's just not me.
I need variety.
I need and I was in my head Iwas like that sounds
overwhelming, like I'm sorry Idon't have.
Dominique Luster (30:19):
I don't even have what I call.
I have this thing that I callspoon theory.
I stole it from a TV show along time ago, but it's called
spoon theory and it's basicallylike there are people who wake
up with all the spoons thatthey're going to have in a given
day and they hand them out withevery interaction and every
decision that they makethroughout the day, and once
(30:40):
they run out of spoons, they'reout of spoons until the next day
.
There are other people whoreceive spoons from every
interaction that they have withother people.
They receive that energy.
I am not.
I give up spoons with everysingle interaction that I have
and every single decision that Ihave.
So if I'm making decisionsabout breakfast no, if I'm
(31:05):
making decisions about breakfastI can guarantee you three
important emails did not getsent that day.
Oh my gosh.
Aliya Cheyanne (31:11):
I feel you a thousand percent.
I get it.
I get it.
I get it, amy, I feel you onthat, okay.
So I only have a little bit oftime with you left and I got a
couple more questions, so I justwant to talk a little bit more.
So I know we talked about howyou've been archiving since 2013
(31:33):
, but you started the LusterCompany Juneteenth 2021.
And that's amazing.
I don't know if I caught whatmade you want to start your own
company, as opposed to, you know, doing it in the capacity that
you were doing it before andthen switching over to, like,
starting your own company to doit.
(31:54):
Can you tell me a little bitabout that pivot.
Dominique Luster (31:56):
Absolutely so.
What's interesting is I've beenin a journey of talking about
my experience going intoentrepreneurship for a while.
So actually we just launched abook that I contributed a
chapter in called Brave Women atWork Lessons and Letting Go,
and in the chapter I actuallytalk about that shift into going
(32:19):
into entrepreneurship and itwas pure like what's the words
that we're supposed to usenowadays?
The world shut down and I waslike you know there's certain
words that you know we won'tdate the podcast, but let's just
say, a few years ago, the wholeworld shut down.
Aliya Cheyanne (32:36):
The pandemic impacted so many people, so many
people.
Dominique Luster (32:42):
And I was incredibly, incredibly fortunate
.
I had work that I really lovedas an archivist, working in a
Black community and workingaround an amazing collection
that I really, really loved.
And I was very, I'm thrilled.
And this, you know, globalsituation occurs, that shuts
down the whole thing, and Iremember we were sent home for
two weeks.
You remember that, like, ohyeah, we'll be back in two weeks
(33:04):
, two years later, yeah, yeah,like that was crazy.
But at any rate, in that time Iremember and I talk about it a
bit in the book chapter that youknow I had been kind of, my
partner had actually kind ofsprinkled the idea of, hey, you
love this thing, you loveworking with communities, you
(33:25):
love what you're doing.
And you know, would you everconsider doing your own thing?
And I was like, absolutely not,I ain't got, I won't have
health insurance, like you knowhow expensive it is to retire
Right, like what do you mean?
Why would I give up myretirement plan?
Why would I do that?
That doesn't even make senseBecause I, I um remember very
(33:50):
distinctly I'm from Kentucky andmy family in Kentucky isn't
necessarily any.
I mean, we're a very typicalBlack family from Kentucky and
so we're not.
We don't come from a ton ofmoney by any means, and so to
have a college degree and areally good job and a stable you
know, stable housing,environments and food on your
(34:11):
table and your bills were paid,was a really big deal, not
necessarily because it was a lot, but because it may have been
more than what other peoplemight have.
And so I had finally gotten toa place of real stability in my
life and in my work, and so theidea of giving that up to go and
(34:31):
do independent work I was likethat makes no sense.
Don't even come to me with that.
That is that Nope.
But during the pandemic, there'sjust a couple of things that
happened during the pandemicthat sparked me to think about
what I really wanted, and Ithink the thing that I really
wanted was the freedom of timeand the freedom of more capacity
.
I felt like I had a certainskills as an archivist to help
(34:53):
people do things, and I couldwork more directly and make a
bigger impact by teaching peoplehow to archive their own stuff
and by working directly withcommunities and by working with
Miss Mary Sue on her front porchand going through her photos so
we can get them out of herattic and out of these plastic
bags, like I just really wantedto do something.
And the pandemic and just lifeand other life events that were
(35:16):
happening around the same timereally sparked in me like well,
what are you going to do?
What are you actually going todo?
Really, what are you actuallygoing to do?
And so I kind of sidesteppedinto entrepreneurship.
I was definitely not the personthat like full leaps.
I wasn't just like I'm throwingaway my job, one day I'm gonna
start my own company.
No, like there were stages andchances and I went go fully
(35:39):
independent and have to go backto employment and go back into
full independency and go back,like we kind of bounced it back
and forth until it finallylanded.
Yeah, but it was really justthis question of what do you
really want?
And what I really wanted wasBlack history for more people
lows and peaks and valleys andall the things in between.
Aliya Cheyanne (36:02):
But I think it's really powerful, like just
going back to what you want andwhat you wanted to do, creating
space and capacity and time todo it.
Yes, weighing your pros and cons, deciding what makes the most
(36:25):
sense, like venturing out anddoing something different than
maybe your family might havebeen used to or imagined.
But I think it's reallypowerful that you've landed here
and made it to this moment.
I know the folks you haveworked with and the companies
that you've worked with, theinstitutions that you've worked
with, have all valued your workand I think what you're doing is
(36:48):
really important.
So thank you for taking theleap.
Thank you, that's so sweet.
Thank you so much.
Yes, thank you for taking theleap.
Thank you, that's so sweet.
Thank you so much.
Yes, thank you for taking theleap.
So, on that note of tellingBlack stories, I feel like you
kind of answered this question alittle bit, but I'm very big
into Afrofuturism, like just thethought of connecting past,
(37:09):
present and future, whateverthat looks like.
So if you could sort of curatean archive of the future and
that reflects, like Black, joy,creativity, excellence, all of
those things, what would youabsolutely need to include in
that archive?
Dominique Luster (37:27):
I don't know what it would be or how it would
look like.
So this is a complete imagining.
That's great, but we're herenow, so let's just go for it.
I think if I could completelyimagine it, I understand, and
I'm not a scientist, and so ifthere is a scientist that
listens to this, please don'tcome into my DMs because I don't
(37:49):
know what I'm talking about.
Dms, because I don't know whatI'm talking about.
But I understand that in womenthere's a small portion of the
genetic composition in womenthat is basically a carbon copy
mother to daughter, mother todaughter.
It, for the most part, just kindof seamlessly goes forward and
(38:11):
backwards in time, meaning yourmother's mother's mother's
mother's mother had that samefraction and then your
daughter's daughter's daughter'sdaughter's daughter would also
have it, and it creates thisreally incredible in, in my
opinion, very powerful linkforwards and backwards.
And one of the reasons why I didactually end up starting my
(38:34):
company is because of my fifthgreat-grandmother, charity, who
was born as an enslaved woman inwhat was previously Danville,
kentucky, in 1824.
And all the things that sheendured and had to live through
and survive in order for me toexist, having been born as an
enslaved person before freedomcomes to Kentucky I mean that
(38:54):
means her mother before her andher mother before her all
survived the worst.
Right, I exist because theyfigured something out.
And I find when I was workingon building the company and
things get hard and I wasn'treally sure, and you're not sure
even now, honestly, when thingsare really overwhelming or
(39:15):
really stressful or really hard,I understand that I am because
they were yes, and the fact thatI exist at all is only because
they existed and survived.
And whatever it is that theyfigured it out, yeah, that they
figured it out, and that not todiminish the horrors of what
they experienced.
It just means that everygeneration of women that came
(39:35):
before you figured it out inorder for you to exist point
blank, and if I could envisionan archive of the future, it
would somehow capture that tinylittle genetic component in some
way that forever instilled asense of hope and a sense of
(39:57):
faith that everything, everysingle thing that ever came
before you was figured out.
Maybe not well, maybe notperfectly, maybe, if, given an
opportunity, your ancestor mightdo it differently, but they did
figure it out because you exist.
Yes, somebody figured somethingout, yeah, and I could give
(40:18):
that as a gift or as a, as alittle blessing, little blessing
genome.
So every single little blackgirl of the future, so the next
bajillions of years, to let themknow that, no matter what it is
, I guarantee you that you existbecause they did and you exist
(40:38):
because I did for my daughterand their daughter's daughter's
daughter.
Every single thing that youstand on, you can stand, knowing
that that strength, that fear,that frustration, that joy is
built into your body and intoyour blood.
Fear, that frustration, thatjoy is built into your body and
into your blood.
You got this.
Keep going, feel it, feel thejoy, keep going, feel sad, keep
(41:00):
going, but keep going.
And if I could have a moment ofthe future, a museum of the
future, an archive of the future, it would be something that
told that story, however thatlooked.
Aliya Cheyanne (41:07):
Oh my gosh, that makes me a little emotional,
because when you talk about it,I can imagine that little black
girl of the future just beingreminded of the power of her
lineage and that anything beforeher she can figure it out and
get through, because all of thewomen before her got through it.
I don't know who said this.
(41:27):
I saw it on Instagram, but Isaw something along the lines of
when a woman makes a choice, orwhen a woman makes a decision,
a thousand grandmothers standbehind her, and that stays in my
head and my heart all the timewhen I'm making decisions, when
I'm facing hardship, when I'mthinking about what to do next,
when I'm unsure, like the factthat so many women before me did
(41:51):
it and figured it out, and I'mhere because of them.
So that's really powerful.
Thank you for that.
Thank you for that, okay, okay,this is so good.
I could talk to you forever,and you have shared so much
about why people's stories andvoices matter.
(42:11):
Thank you so much for bringingjust your energy, your
brilliance, your expertise, yourvoice, your power, everything
to this show and showing up theway you did today, because I
learned something.
I know anyone listening willlearn something too.
So, thank you, thank you.
Thank you, thank you for havingme.
Yes, this has been such apowerful conversation.
Dominique Luster (42:32):
I would love for you to let folks know where
they can support your work,where they can learn more about
you, where they can follow youonline all of the things I mean,
we are pretty much everywhereat the Luster Company, so
thelustercompanycom, and then onInstagram at the Luster Company
, facebook at the Luster Company, linkedin not the X, because I,
because my brain doesn't movethat fast, so I actually don't
(42:54):
know how that one works and allthe other platforms at the
Lester Company.
And then I'm also on Instagramat Miss Dominique Lester or the
lestercompanycom.
Aliya Cheyanne (43:05):
Yes, amazing.
Thank you so much.
This has been such a powerfulconversation.
I really appreciate you.
Dominique Luster (43:12):
This is great.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Hi everyone, welcome back to the show.
I'm your host, aaliyah Cheyenne, and I'm so excited today to be
joined by Dominique Lester.
Hi, dominique.
Hi, welcome to the show.
I'm so excited to have you.
Dominique Luster (00:13):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm excited to be here this isgoing to be fun.
Aliya Cheyanne (00:17):
It is.
We already got vibes here.
We had a little technicaldifficulty, but we're here now
and we're so excited.
So before we jump into theconversation, I would love to
just ask you a little bit moreabout who you are in the world
today and how you'd like to beknown.
Dominique Luster (00:34):
I am a woman and a Black woman and a Black
woman archivist I think thoseare usually how I see myself.
I'm also a daughter and asister and a cousin and a friend
and somebody's auntie A lot ofthings and I think I'd like to
(00:54):
be remembered in this world assomeone who truly cared about
how people are remembered inthis world.
Aliya Cheyanne (01:01):
Yeah, that's really beautiful.
I resonate with so many ofthose things as a fellow Black
woman and a sister, but I lovethis idea of legacy and
remembering and storytelling andarchiving and history.
So thank you so much for beinghere to share more about the
powerful work that you're doing.
No, thank you for theinvitation.
(01:21):
Yes, this is awesome.
So I want to jump into somequestions for you, because I
know my audience is going towant to know everything.
Let's go Tell us a little bitmore about the Lester Company.
So you describe yourself as anarchivist for the people, which
I think is really really cool.
You know, what does that meanto you and how did you kind of
(01:45):
get your start in doing that?
Dominique Luster (01:47):
Yeah, so an archivist is someone who works
to preserve the historicdocuments and artifacts, and
sometimes objects, of people,places, communities, governments
, organizations, businesses,what have you.
We can work in a variety ofdifferent areas and capacities.
I particularly work in what Ilike to call the greater
(02:08):
diasporic community, so that caninclude church records, family
records, family Bibles,cookbooks, uplifting Black
history, black stories, blackcommunities, and making sure
that those stories get told andpreserved in any kind of various
(02:29):
ways, whether that's withfamilies, with communities,
whomever.
So it's been fun.
I've been.
The Lester Company has beenaround kind of doing this work
for a few years now, since 2021,juneteenth of 2021, to be
specific.
I know I was like if there wasone thing I was going to time in
this world, it was going to bethe founding of this company,
(02:53):
but we've been around sinceJuneteenth 2021.
But I've actually been anarchivist probably since 13,
2014, something like that.
So not too too long, definitely.
Still, I would consider myselflike a younger professional, but
I've been told recently that Ican no longer sit at the young
(03:13):
kids table, so that was a littlehard for me to hear, but it was
.
It was hard.
I was like, what do you mean?
Like I'm a young professional.
And they were like, no, you'renot.
When does one?
You look it, you look it.
It's like when is one no longera young professional?
And they were like, no, you'renot.
When does one?
You look it, it's like when isone no longer a young
professional?
Is there a mark in which, afterthat point, you're not?
(03:33):
I don't know, but I was alittle upset at that conference
because they wouldn't let me bea young professional anymore.
I was like what do you mean?
I'm not a young professional.
What do you mean?
I just graduated five minutesago, but apparently that was a
decade ago.
And they were like you gotta goLike really.
But it was interesting.
I was at a conference giving atalk and I had mentioned
(03:57):
something.
There's this old piece ofsoftware I guess it's old,
apparently piece of software inthe archives field, and I
mentioned it during my talk andI remember someone specifically
in the audience being like thatofficially makes you old,
because we don't even know whatsoftware that is.
And I was like rude and we'relike yeah, do they?
Is that what y'all used to useback in the day?
I was like we used thissoftware five years ago.
Aliya Cheyanne (04:21):
Oh my goodness.
That's how fast things move andprogress.
I'm very curious.
I'm wondering is AI having animpact on your field right now?
Or like what does that kind oflook like for you now?
Dominique Luster (04:36):
Absolutely, I would say, contrary to popular
belief, ai and history kind ofare doing lots of things,
coinciding a lot right now.
I think there's kind of two,maybe two types of technology
that archives and history andpeople and civilizations are
almost always contending with.
But there's big waves oftechnological advances.
(04:58):
Right now we are dealing withAI, but previously we were
dealing with computers andmachine-readable formats of
things, but before that we aredealing with the printing press.
The printing press is a pieceof technology that would have
been considered innovative inits time.
The wheel or the motor vehiclewould have been considered
innovative technology at itstime.
(05:19):
So I think people in history arealways contending with whatever
is the newest version of sometechnological advance.
Right now we're just dealingwith AI, or that seems to be the
one that we're contending withright now, and it impacts the
archives field specifically in acouple of ways.
I think there's concerns around, you know, will AI replace jobs
(05:41):
and whatnot?
I mean, I think I personallyhave never seen a computer
process, an archival box full ofthings.
But there are other ways inwhich technology helps us do our
jobs a little bit faster andeasier.
For example, communities of allkinds and shapes create things.
(06:01):
They create stories and photojournals and photo albums and
Bibles and cookbooks and whatnot.
That stuff adds up and you wantto make sure that you really
capture people's names and datesand stories, and you know the
little nuanced parts thatgrandma used to put in the mac
and cheese that she didn't tellnobody about.
But if you actually got herrecipe cards you'd see on the
(06:24):
back she was like sprinkle ofthis dash of that.
That stuff has to get preserved, and there's only so much time
and capacity that any one personhas or any one archivist has,
and so technology can help us dothat a little bit faster.
But other than that, theserobots can't process a box.
Aliya Cheyanne (06:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah , it's very interesting to hear
how it's impacting your field inparticular, but it's important
too to remember that so manythings require human touch and
that AI's job is to be acompanion of sorts, in the sense
that it could help us do ourjobs a little bit faster and
(07:04):
easier, but it's not meant toreplace us.
So it's very interesting tolearn about how it's impacting
your field, but, in the spiritof using that example of
grandma's recipe and the nuanceand things like that, I would,
and you even using the exampleof, like family Bibles, like
that's a big thing for somepeople, like people have Bibles
from generations ago writtenwith family members' names, so
(07:29):
like, ooh, that's so powerful.
But, especially in this timeand in this era, right now, why
do you think your work is sourgent and vital, especially as
it pertains to, like, ourcommunities, black communities,
other communities of color?
Dominique Luster (07:43):
I think that humans, at least our modern
generations, we are at a reallyparticular pinch point in time
when it comes to like humancivilization development, and I
think that our elders, we arecoming out of it.
We're coming into a seasonwhere we live longer as humans.
We live a little bit longerthan we may have in the past.
(08:04):
However, time is not as long oras short, but it really is not
as long as we think it is, andso we might assume or think that
certain ideas, events orexperiences were a very long
time ago, like the desegregationof schools or the March on
Washington or the Jim Crow South.
We might presume that a lot ofthese things were a really long
(08:24):
time ago.
They actually quite weren't.
Probably find a community elderin your local church or at the
library who actively rememberswho watched their parents on
television at the March onWashington, something like that.
This is absolutely withincurrent living generations' mind
frame, current livinggenerations mind frame.
(08:49):
I think that capturing andpreserving and archiving these
experiences now is more critical, or is exceptionally critical
in all communities, but in Blackcommunities, because we're also
because in this, tied totechnology, we're in a place
where we create a lot of thingsvery fast.
We create photographs by thethousands.
I don't know about you, but inmy phone there's probably 10,000
(09:10):
photos in my little photo thingon my phone Photo library,
apple I don't know what it wascalled Previously, back in the
day or in previous generations,we had to be more selective,
right Like if you tookphotographs of an event.
There was like a physicalcamera and you were on film and
you developed that film and thatphoto maybe went into the
newspaper, like there's a lot oftouch points around that object
(09:34):
, and so you have to be veryselective and very meticulous
about what you include and whatyou don't.
Nowadays we will go to thefamily cookout and take 85
million photos of everybody'scousin and mama now and who
knows whatever happens to them.
I think, to get back to thequestion, is that we create a
(09:56):
lot of things and life movesvery fast now, and so we have
the capacity to lose or forgetthe connection to historic
objects, to historic events, tohistoric memories and moments
that helped, shaped us as acommunity.
Because our memory gets reallyshort, because our attention
span gets really short, becausewe create a lot of things very
fast, we're not as meticulous,we're not as intentional when we
(10:19):
create things, and so we canlose the meaning of desegregated
schools, things, and so we canlose the meaning of desegregated
schools.
We could lose the importance ofthe March in Washington or
things like those major events,bus boycotts.
We can lose the real weight ofthese events without capturing
them very carefully now, and ourelders who were there are
(10:39):
getting older.
They love them, but they aregetting older and they God
willing, you know at some pointthey won't be with us much more,
and so we have to be able tocapture those experiences while
we can, because once we losethat connectivity, it's very
difficult to get it back.
Aliya Cheyanne (10:59):
Yeah, that's so powerful and that's so important
.
I think we're especially in atime where some would hope that
we do lose that connectivity andthat we do lose that ability to
like, recall and connect withthe past how it relates to the
present, and I love the way youspeak about it just with so much
care and intention and passion.
(11:20):
I think that's really beautifuland important.
So thank you for what you'redoing.
It's so good and so cool.
Dominique Luster (11:26):
You know it's interesting.
I heard this the other day, butI've I've now said it a few
times, so I think I'm going totry and claim it.
Somebody else does.
But you know, I heard thissaying the other day where if
you want what is the phrase?
If you want to hide somethingfrom someone, put it in a book.
I heard that and I said, oh,that's interesting.
(11:49):
If you want to hide somethingfrom someone, put it in a book.
And I thought to myself but ifyou want to hide something from
a whole community or a wholecivilization, put it in the
archive.
Ain't nobody going to lookthere.
If you want to hide somethingfrom somebody, put it in a book.
If you want to hide somethingfrom many people, put it in the
archive.
Aliya Cheyanne (12:07):
Yeah, wow, I've definitely heard the book one
before.
I really liked that spin on thearchive, one that was so
interesting.
It also makes me think aboutforms of digital archiving.
I call this podcast DigitalArchive.
It's using my voice and yourvoice and the voices of other
people to tell stories that arereally important.
(12:28):
And I also think about the waythat people practice digital
archiving and the way that, youknow, we talk about taking
pictures at the cookout or, youknow, having our photo libraries
or even posting things onInstagram.
Like we're in the era of theSinners movie and there are
trends popping up on platformslike TikTok where people are
(12:51):
really showing pictures of theirfamily history to like the
soundtrack of that movie.
Like I'm seeing people showpictures of their parents and
their grandparents in the deepsouth who were sharecroppers or
who had black and white photosor all kinds of stuff, and it's
opening up so much conversationin a way that I think is really
(13:12):
really beautiful and powerful.
So I would love to just kind oftalk about the ways we
physically archive and the waywe digitally archive and kind of
like what's the difference orlike the defining difference for
you, and how we kind ofdocument a moment, whether
that's digitally or physically,and what it means to truly like
(13:34):
archive, a legacy.
Dominique Luster (13:36):
I think you've I mean honestly you already
described it.
I just want to just likepiggyback on what you've already
said to be honest.
I mean.
So you've already kind of laidit out, so I'm really just going
to kind of tag team here.
You know, walk alongside whatyou said.
But you're absolutely right, wehave digital archiving, we have
(13:58):
physical archiving, but beforethat, what you kind of like just
signed in the sky, was thisidea that history is this very
curated thing, like it'ssomething that is specifically
chosen things.
So you know, contrary to popularbelief, not everything that is
created is saved, even in adigital environment.
Not everything that is createdis saved, and this is maybe a
(14:21):
little more can be saved in adigital environment.
But at what costs?
Right, like there are costs,space costs, environmental costs
associated with that, and thenphysical objects.
We can't save absolutelyeverything.
There are billions of humansand have been billions of humans
.
If we saved absolutelyeverything that every single
human created, we'd run out ofspace incredibly quick.
(14:43):
And so what gets into an archiveand what's not included in the
archive is selected.
And that selection is a processthat archivists, historians and
curators kind of go through tochoose or select what goes into
an archive and becomes a part ofthat historic storytelling,
history writing process, andwhat goes in can be very
(15:07):
powerful, but also what's chosennot to go in an archive can
also be very powerful, and thegaps or silences that that
creates can be sometimes alittle louder than what's
included.
Just depends on what you'relooking for and how you're
looking.
But how we do that physically,honestly, history just benefits,
or history tends to prioritizeor tends to lean towards the
(15:31):
person or the people or thecompany that wrote it down.
So there's that phrase that Idon't know like history is
written by the victor.
I think that's the phrase thatis semi-true, semi-not true.
History is written by theperson who wrote it down.
That's actually pretty much alittle bit, a lot closer to the
(15:53):
truth.
And if the victor is the one,is the story that's left behind.
It's purely because that's thestory that was written down and
not destroyed.
Like a big part of the victoris destroying the other person's
story so that they can't proveit against you.
And in the physical environment,how we preserve our own things
is simply by writing it down,because if you don't tell your
(16:15):
own story, somebody else will ormay not and you might not like
what they have to say.
They may not record your storyor document your life, your
family, in the way that ishonoring and uplifting to you,
or in the way that you woulddescribe it.
Some families and companies,communities, organizations,
nonprofits, for-profits, whathave you?
Have nuances of how they talkabout themselves, how they talk
(16:38):
about their story.
It's a culture of how they wishto be remembered.
And if you don't write it down,did it really exist?
I mean, you can't prove it.
That's where that history ofthe history is written by.
The Victor thing comes from.
In the digital environment, thedigital environment gets a
little bit more tricky.
In the physical environment, wecan talk all about like save
(17:01):
grandma's photos, right, likethat's really what it is, and
write the names on the back ofit.
In the digital environment,sending archive on your email
does not mean you archive youremail in the grander scheme of
archiving the world.
I just want to say that, forthe sake of the recording, yes,
hitting the archive button inyour email is a good idea.
(17:25):
It just doesn't do what youthink it does.
It does not preserve yourrecords forever.
It really doesn't.
Digital preservation is anincredibly complex,
bajillion-step process thatincludes anything from
preservation of physical objectsto the long-term preservation
of born digital objects.
(17:45):
It gets really complicated.
Talk to an archivist.
We'd be happy to help you.
Aliya Cheyanne (17:52):
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
I thank you so much for takingthe time to just explain that a
little bit further and shareyour thoughts and really build
on what we were talking about.
Yeah, I think that's animportant sort of caveat to
explain too about digitalarchiving, because you see so
many things about, like, how tosave things and archive things,
(18:13):
like even going into yourarchive on Instagram and I'm
just like, okay, but like thereare, it's not literally the same
exact thing, like there's awhole.
No, it's not to kind of createa true archive.
And if you do want to do thatfor yourself, for your legacy,
for your family, for yourcommunity, like talk to someone
who is an expert in this areaand who can support you and
(18:35):
guide you in that process.
Dominique Luster (18:37):
Because there are absolutely.
There are ways for sure.
I mean, individual families canarchive their own things A
hundred percent.
They absolutely can.
It's the thing that I try toencourage people to do is just
be mindful of who owns theplatform that you're using.
Yeah, do you?
Yeah, probably not, and it'snot even like a pro one platform
(19:02):
or against another.
It's just purely like do you?
If you are, if you say you'vetaken photographs of your family
photo album and you tookdigital photographs of them and
you uploaded them to the cloudto be preserved, that is an
amazing step and please go forthand do that as a great, great
first step.
Yeah, or your family recipes,if you want to take photographs
(19:24):
of them and upload them to thecloud, I think that's a really
brilliant first step.
But just know that that's afirst step.
Always just be mindful of whoowns said thing.
And if they disappeared one day, would your stuff disappear
with them?
Is it a subscription that ifthat company went under one day,
that your stuff is gone orcould be sold or just
disappeared?
(19:45):
Or if there was anenvironmental issue one day and
all the servers went off, likeyou know?
Just be mindful of where yourstuff is no pros or cons in
either direction.
Just be mindful of who ownswhat you're putting where and
what protections do you have incase something should happen to
that other player?
Aliya Cheyanne (20:02):
Yeah, Very true, very true.
That's a really good point.
I want to get back to what wewere talking about.
I want to build on the factthat you said that families can
absolutely archive things ontheir own, like so many have
been generations.
That's why you have peopletoday who have family Bibles
from like 1908 and all kinds ofstuff like that.
(20:22):
But I do think that the workyou're doing intersects so
beautifully with juststorytelling and memory and
preserving legacy and truth andall those things.
I think that's so powerful andsomething I love to talk about a
lot on the show is justcreativity, and I think there's
a lot of creativity that comesinto play when you're connecting
(20:43):
with communities and familiesand preserving their stories,
and it really is just sacred andspecial work.
So I would love to know if youfind any opportunity for
creativity in your work, howyou're able to just come up with
new ways to do things that maybe innovative, that might
deviate from tradition in yourfield, or how you've had to
(21:04):
adapt as times have changed inpreserving legacy and
storytelling.
So I would love to talk alittle bit more about you
serving legacy and storytelling.
Dominique Luster (21:12):
So I would love to talk a little bit more
about you.
Honestly, I think the one thingthat I have tried that works
pretty much all the time is justletting the community decide
what they want to do and then mefinding creative ways to
support whatever it is that theywant.
So I don't necessarily andmaybe I should, maybe I
shouldn't, but I don'tnecessarily put the onus or the
burden of coming up with thatcreative outlet or that
(21:35):
innovative or imaginative toplayer.
Let's call it that, that toplayer of what you as a family
member might actually interactwith.
Most communities know what theywant.
They just don't necessarilyknow how to make it happen
because they are not archivists,like, that's not their job,
it's not, it's not.
Are not archivists?
That's not their job, theyshouldn't have to.
(21:56):
We are the librarians, thearchivists, the genealogists,
the public historians, what haveyou?
That's our job to know how tomake their dreams come true.
And so I think the one thingthat I try to do is just to
allow the community to whateverthey want to do, whatever you
want.
I will let you know if whateveryou want to do may not be as
possible in our currenttechnological world, but we will
(22:19):
also then try and figure it out.
Anyway, I think my job is tofigure out the how and to figure
out the what is for thecommunity to decide.
They know how they want to beremembered and if they want an
oral history repository that wekeep on a cloud, sure, great,
that's fine.
If that's what you want andthat's how you wish to be
(22:41):
remembered, that's fine, we cando that.
I'll help you figure out howthat works best so that it's in
your best interest.
If you want a physical archive,if you want an art archive, if
you want a community-drivenarchive by volunteers, I think
all of those options are great.
It's whatever drives the beliefand the why for them.
(23:02):
I mean, I wouldn't want to saymy opinions on it are irrelevant
, but I kind of actually do feellike my feelings on it are
irrelevant.
It's purely based on a beliefthat I believe in Black people
and Black storytelling and Ialso have a fundamental belief
that they know what they wantand what they're doing, or at
(23:24):
least they know what they wantand how they want it to look.
They know what their story is.
It's not for me to know.
My job is to help them buildwhatever infrastructure that
they need to get whatever theywant done.
Aliya Cheyanne (23:39):
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense, it does, and I
think there's importance indoing it that way as well.
It does give you theopportunity in the room to play
and be creative when necessary,to figure out how to accomplish
certain things, but it also justhonors the fact that families,
communities, usually know whatthey want and what they like to
(24:00):
see, and you're supporting themin that process.
So I think there's a lot ofpower, absolutely.
Dominique Luster (24:04):
Yeah, it's just people know how they want
to be remembered and I alsobelieve that people have the
right to be forgotten in and outof how they choose and whatever
works best or sees fit for themand their legacy building.
And if they want their archiveat an institution like a
university or something, that'sfine, we can do that.
(24:26):
If you want it at a museum okay, cool, let's do that.
If you want to keep it in yourcommunity cool, let's do that.
If you want to keep it in yourcommunity cool, let's do that.
It's completely up to them.
Aliya Cheyanne (24:35):
Yeah, that's so powerful.
People know how they want to beremembered.
People also have the right tobe forgotten.
Wow, I got that.
Wow, I got a little chill.
This is really powerful.
Makes me think about things.
So, yeah, beautiful.
Dominique Luster (24:54):
Thank you for sharing with us Good.
Aliya Cheyanne (24:56):
All right, it's no fun, I'm joking, it's just so
good.
But yeah, that sentiment juststuck with me a little bit.
So I also love to talk aboutjust purpose and alignment on
this show.
And you are in many ways, atleast it seems to me, you are
very much walking in purpose,like what you're passionate
about and what feels veryaligned for you, at least in
this season, in this era of yourlife.
(25:16):
And I get a sense of the whyalready that you do the work
that you do.
You've talked about it so just,powerfully and so beautifully
so far.
But I would also love to knowhow you kind of take care of
yourself during this process,especially as some stories might
be heavier or more emotionalthan others, as you're archiving
those stories.
And we talk a lot aboutcommunity, but I would love to
(25:39):
know what self-care or communitycare looks like for you while
you're holding this stories,while you're doing this work,
while you're remembering yourwhy, all of those things.
Dominique Luster (25:49):
That's a great question and I will admit that
I'm not always the best at it.
But I also I think that I thinkthat there's kind of two ways
or two types of that caring.
One can be episodic, I think,where you might work and grind
for a while and then have periodof intense care.
(26:11):
Maybe that's a trip, or youwork for a year and then maybe
you have that kind of big burstof self-care.
And then I think the secondtype is more everyday, like that
small nuance, everyday carewhere it's like okay, this is
the practice that I do.
Five minutes of meditationevery morning, that kind of
helps me level set.
(26:31):
So I think there's two types.
There's probably a bajillionmore, but these are the two that
kind of come to my mind.
I am probably the one personthat does both.
I'm a person of routine andperson of habit.
I am the kind of person thatloves a color-coded spreadsheet.
(26:52):
I just am.
I love organization, I love afile.
I just I love it.
I am the person who would move.
I remember when I moved once Ilike put color-coded stickers
like red, yellow, green stickerson all the boxes throughout my
house which, like green, meansthis is good to go put it on the
truck.
Yellow means like this isalmost okay, just triple check.
(27:15):
Red means don't touch it.
Like I am that person.
There's a spreadsheet on thedoor as you enter the room.
I mean, like I love, I am alibrarian archivist.
I love, I love metadata.
I love it, it's my thing anyway, but for self-care, because I
think metadata can come, or thatlevel of organization can come,
(27:37):
across as the opposite ofself-care, but I actually find
it deeply relaxing.
I find it deeply relaxing.
But I am also a person ofroutine.
I like habit, I like routine, Ilike doing the same thing every
morning.
My mornings are very boring andthey're very routine, the same
thing.
I even eat the same oatmealevery morning.
(27:58):
That's what matters.
It helps.
I mean, I've been verysurprised at how much it helps.
I have to travel a lot with thecompany because archives are
all over the country and I trymy best, I even sit.
It's funny.
I even try to sit in the sameseat on the plane.
I try my best, I even sit.
It's funny.
I even try to sit in the sameseat on the plane.
I try to stay in the same hotel, like I need.
(28:19):
I need my routine.
You need structure, you needyour I get it A lot of structure
and routine it really helpsbecause I think otherwise life
can feel very overwhelming andchaotic and anxiety inducing,
and I think routine notnecessarily.
I've heard recently there's adifference between peace and
quiet.
Sometimes we are here thinkingthat we're protecting our peace,
(28:40):
when really we're just likedefending quiet.
Yeah yeah, and I think routinecan be a little bit of a balance
between that for me and justkeeping things peaceful and
quiet for at least my smalllittle ecosystem of the world.
However, I also do love a planeticket because you could find
me on somebody's beach.
That does not mean I don't alsoepisodically go to somebody's
(29:06):
island yes, to somebody's beachand like I will disconnect for
weeks yeah yeah, it is nice.
I will disconnect to the best ofmy ability three or four weeks
a year and just be out good goodfor you yeah, I try both, I try
both yes, a thousand percentresonate with you on so many
(29:31):
things.
Aliya Cheyanne (29:31):
I also like some structure, some routine.
I also like to dip on a bit.
You know like get away me in myhouse.
Dominique Luster (29:36):
Yeah, we have multiple boxes and packs of my
breakfast, because I can'thandle it this works for me like
(30:00):
it does.
Aliya Cheyanne (30:01):
I was listening to another show, like yesterday
I think, and literally the guestwas, like you know, said to the
host I heard on your show thatyou said that you can eat the
same thing every day and she waswas like that's just not me.
I need variety.
I need and I was in my head Iwas like that sounds
overwhelming, like I'm sorry Idon't have.
Dominique Luster (30:19):
I don't even have what I call.
I have this thing that I callspoon theory.
I stole it from a TV show along time ago, but it's called
spoon theory and it's basicallylike there are people who wake
up with all the spoons thatthey're going to have in a given
day and they hand them out withevery interaction and every
decision that they makethroughout the day, and once
(30:40):
they run out of spoons, they'reout of spoons until the next day
.
There are other people whoreceive spoons from every
interaction that they have withother people.
They receive that energy.
I am not.
I give up spoons with everysingle interaction that I have
and every single decision that Ihave.
So if I'm making decisionsabout breakfast no, if I'm
(31:05):
making decisions about breakfastI can guarantee you three
important emails did not getsent that day.
Oh my gosh.
Aliya Cheyanne (31:11):
I feel you a thousand percent.
I get it.
I get it.
I get it, amy, I feel you onthat, okay.
So I only have a little bit oftime with you left and I got a
couple more questions, so I justwant to talk a little bit more.
So I know we talked about howyou've been archiving since 2013
(31:33):
, but you started the LusterCompany Juneteenth 2021.
And that's amazing.
I don't know if I caught whatmade you want to start your own
company, as opposed to, you know, doing it in the capacity that
you were doing it before andthen switching over to, like,
starting your own company to doit.
(31:54):
Can you tell me a little bitabout that pivot.
Dominique Luster (31:56):
Absolutely so.
What's interesting is I've beenin a journey of talking about
my experience going intoentrepreneurship for a while.
So actually we just launched abook that I contributed a
chapter in called Brave Women atWork Lessons and Letting Go,
and in the chapter I actuallytalk about that shift into going
(32:19):
into entrepreneurship and itwas pure like what's the words
that we're supposed to usenowadays?
The world shut down and I waslike you know there's certain
words that you know we won'tdate the podcast, but let's just
say, a few years ago, the wholeworld shut down.
Aliya Cheyanne (32:36):
The pandemic impacted so many people, so many
people.
Dominique Luster (32:42):
And I was incredibly, incredibly fortunate
.
I had work that I really lovedas an archivist, working in a
Black community and workingaround an amazing collection
that I really, really loved.
And I was very, I'm thrilled.
And this, you know, globalsituation occurs, that shuts
down the whole thing, and Iremember we were sent home for
two weeks.
You remember that, like, ohyeah, we'll be back in two weeks
(33:04):
, two years later, yeah, yeah,like that was crazy.
But at any rate, in that time Iremember and I talk about it a
bit in the book chapter that youknow I had been kind of, my
partner had actually kind ofsprinkled the idea of, hey, you
love this thing, you loveworking with communities, you
(33:25):
love what you're doing.
And you know, would you everconsider doing your own thing?
And I was like, absolutely not,I ain't got, I won't have
health insurance, like you knowhow expensive it is to retire
Right, like what do you mean?
Why would I give up myretirement plan?
Why would I do that?
That doesn't even make senseBecause I, I um remember very
(33:50):
distinctly I'm from Kentucky andmy family in Kentucky isn't
necessarily any.
I mean, we're a very typicalBlack family from Kentucky and
so we're not.
We don't come from a ton ofmoney by any means, and so to
have a college degree and areally good job and a stable you
know, stable housing,environments and food on your
(34:11):
table and your bills were paid,was a really big deal, not
necessarily because it was a lot, but because it may have been
more than what other peoplemight have.
And so I had finally gotten toa place of real stability in my
life and in my work, and so theidea of giving that up to go and
(34:31):
do independent work I was likethat makes no sense.
Don't even come to me with that.
That is that Nope.
But during the pandemic, there'sjust a couple of things that
happened during the pandemicthat sparked me to think about
what I really wanted, and Ithink the thing that I really
wanted was the freedom of timeand the freedom of more capacity
.
I felt like I had a certainskills as an archivist to help
(34:53):
people do things, and I couldwork more directly and make a
bigger impact by teaching peoplehow to archive their own stuff
and by working directly withcommunities and by working with
Miss Mary Sue on her front porchand going through her photos so
we can get them out of herattic and out of these plastic
bags, like I just really wantedto do something.
And the pandemic and just lifeand other life events that were
(35:16):
happening around the same timereally sparked in me like well,
what are you going to do?
What are you actually going todo?
Really, what are you actuallygoing to do?
And so I kind of sidesteppedinto entrepreneurship.
I was definitely not the personthat like full leaps.
I wasn't just like I'm throwingaway my job, one day I'm gonna
start my own company.
No, like there were stages andchances and I went go fully
(35:39):
independent and have to go backto employment and go back into
full independency and go back,like we kind of bounced it back
and forth until it finallylanded.
Yeah, but it was really justthis question of what do you
really want?
And what I really wanted wasBlack history for more people
lows and peaks and valleys andall the things in between.
Aliya Cheyanne (36:02):
But I think it's really powerful, like just
going back to what you want andwhat you wanted to do, creating
space and capacity and time todo it.
Yes, weighing your pros and cons, deciding what makes the most
(36:25):
sense, like venturing out anddoing something different than
maybe your family might havebeen used to or imagined.
But I think it's reallypowerful that you've landed here
and made it to this moment.
I know the folks you haveworked with and the companies
that you've worked with, theinstitutions that you've worked
with, have all valued your workand I think what you're doing is
(36:48):
really important.
So thank you for taking theleap.
Thank you, that's so sweet.
Thank you so much.
Yes, thank you for taking theleap.
Thank you, that's so sweet.
Thank you so much.
Yes, thank you for taking theleap.
So, on that note of tellingBlack stories, I feel like you
kind of answered this question alittle bit, but I'm very big
into Afrofuturism, like just thethought of connecting past,
(37:09):
present and future, whateverthat looks like.
So if you could sort of curatean archive of the future and
that reflects, like Black, joy,creativity, excellence, all of
those things, what would youabsolutely need to include in
that archive?
Dominique Luster (37:27):
I don't know what it would be or how it would
look like.
So this is a complete imagining.
That's great, but we're herenow, so let's just go for it.
I think if I could completelyimagine it, I understand, and
I'm not a scientist, and so ifthere is a scientist that
listens to this, please don'tcome into my DMs because I don't
(37:49):
know what I'm talking about.
Dms, because I don't know whatI'm talking about.
But I understand that in womenthere's a small portion of the
genetic composition in womenthat is basically a carbon copy
mother to daughter, mother todaughter.
It, for the most part, just kindof seamlessly goes forward and
(38:11):
backwards in time, meaning yourmother's mother's mother's
mother's mother had that samefraction and then your
daughter's daughter's daughter'sdaughter's daughter would also
have it, and it creates thisreally incredible in, in my
opinion, very powerful linkforwards and backwards.
And one of the reasons why I didactually end up starting my
(38:34):
company is because of my fifthgreat-grandmother, charity, who
was born as an enslaved woman inwhat was previously Danville,
kentucky, in 1824.
And all the things that sheendured and had to live through
and survive in order for me toexist, having been born as an
enslaved person before freedomcomes to Kentucky I mean that
(38:54):
means her mother before her andher mother before her all
survived the worst.
Right, I exist because theyfigured something out.
And I find when I was workingon building the company and
things get hard and I wasn'treally sure, and you're not sure
even now, honestly, when thingsare really overwhelming or
(39:15):
really stressful or really hard,I understand that I am because
they were yes, and the fact thatI exist at all is only because
they existed and survived.
And whatever it is that theyfigured it out, yeah, that they
figured it out, and that not todiminish the horrors of what
they experienced.
It just means that everygeneration of women that came
(39:35):
before you figured it out inorder for you to exist point
blank, and if I could envisionan archive of the future, it
would somehow capture that tinylittle genetic component in some
way that forever instilled asense of hope and a sense of
(39:57):
faith that everything, everysingle thing that ever came
before you was figured out.
Maybe not well, maybe notperfectly, maybe, if, given an
opportunity, your ancestor mightdo it differently, but they did
figure it out because you exist.
Yes, somebody figured somethingout, yeah, and I could give
(40:18):
that as a gift or as a, as alittle blessing, little blessing
genome.
So every single little blackgirl of the future, so the next
bajillions of years, to let themknow that, no matter what it is
, I guarantee you that you existbecause they did and you exist
(40:38):
because I did for my daughterand their daughter's daughter's
daughter.
Every single thing that youstand on, you can stand, knowing
that that strength, that fear,that frustration, that joy is
built into your body and intoyour blood.
Fear, that frustration, thatjoy is built into your body and
into your blood.
You got this.
Keep going, feel it, feel thejoy, keep going, feel sad, keep
(41:00):
going, but keep going.
And if I could have a moment ofthe future, a museum of the
future, an archive of the future, it would be something that
told that story, however thatlooked.
Aliya Cheyanne (41:07):
Oh my gosh, that makes me a little emotional,
because when you talk about it,I can imagine that little black
girl of the future just beingreminded of the power of her
lineage and that anything beforeher she can figure it out and
get through, because all of thewomen before her got through it.
I don't know who said this.
(41:27):
I saw it on Instagram, but Isaw something along the lines of
when a woman makes a choice, orwhen a woman makes a decision,
a thousand grandmothers standbehind her, and that stays in my
head and my heart all the timewhen I'm making decisions, when
I'm facing hardship, when I'mthinking about what to do next,
when I'm unsure, like the factthat so many women before me did
(41:51):
it and figured it out, and I'mhere because of them.
So that's really powerful.
Thank you for that.
Thank you for that, okay, okay,this is so good.
I could talk to you forever,and you have shared so much
about why people's stories andvoices matter.
(42:11):
Thank you so much for bringingjust your energy, your
brilliance, your expertise, yourvoice, your power, everything
to this show and showing up theway you did today, because I
learned something.
I know anyone listening willlearn something too.
So, thank you, thank you.
Thank you, thank you for havingme.
Yes, this has been such apowerful conversation.
Dominique Luster (42:32):
I would love for you to let folks know where
they can support your work,where they can learn more about
you, where they can follow youonline all of the things I mean,
we are pretty much everywhereat the Luster Company, so
thelustercompanycom, and then onInstagram at the Luster Company
, facebook at the Luster Company, linkedin not the X, because I,
because my brain doesn't movethat fast, so I actually don't
(42:54):
know how that one works and allthe other platforms at the
Lester Company.
And then I'm also on Instagramat Miss Dominique Lester or the
lestercompanycom.
Aliya Cheyanne (43:05):
Yes, amazing.
Thank you so much.
This has been such a powerfulconversation.
I really appreciate you.
Dominique Luster (43:12):
This is great.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
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