April 28, 2025 • 58 mins
**This episode is a replay of Dream, Rest & Play ft. Colored Girls Liberation Lab Founder, Jennifer Roberts | Ep. 26 with an updated intro.**
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Visionary Jennifer Roberts -- whose story of evolution from educator to racial equity consultant to Founder of Colored Girls Liberation Lab embodies the resilience and power of dreaming big -- joins us as a guest on this episode of The Prolific Hub Podcast!
Hear how Jenn's identity as a Black woman, mother, artist, and dreamer has been shaped by the legacy of the strong women before her, and how it fuels her passion to build a community rooted in freedom and healing.
Watch this episode on YouTube!
To learn more about Jenn and Colored Girls Liberation Lab, visit:
Instagram: @coloredgirlslab
Website: coloredgirlslab.org
Become a Member: community.coloredgirlslab.org
Related Episodes:
- Wellness for Black Women ft. Aseanté Renee | Ep. 37
- A Free Woman's Journey to Love & Liberation: In Conversation with EbonyJanice Moore | Ep. 51
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Aliya Cheyanne (00:00):
Hey friend, welcome back to the show.
I'm so glad to have you backand, as I mentioned, we are
still very much on a briefhiatus, so we're doing a couple
of replays before new episodesdrop.
This week I wanted to revisitour episode with Jennifer
Roberts, who is the founder ofColored Girls Liberation Lab.
(00:21):
About a year ago we had done anepisode with Jen called Dream,
rest Play and it's still such adeeply impactful episode for me.
I reference it a lot in otherepisodes.
Our conversation was important,it was rich, it was lovely.
We talked about legacy and theimportance of dreaming and
(00:43):
resting and regulating ournervous systems and all of the
important things to just be well.
I thought it was especiallyimportant to revisit this
episode, especially during thistime that we're in, where more
Black women could use somedreaming, some resting and some
playing to navigate these times.
So with that, let's jump intothis replay, and I hope you
(01:06):
enjoy it.
If you've heard it before, Ihope it's nice to revisit, and
if you haven't heard it beforeand you're hearing it for the
first time, I hope you enjoy itjust as much.
So with that, let's jump intothis replay.
I hope you enjoy theconversation and if you do.
Please be sure to leave areview for the show.
Let me know what you think, andfeel free to send a text to the
(01:29):
show at any time.
There's always a link in theepisode description to text the
show.
All right, friend, let's jumpin.
So excited today to be joinedby Jen Roberts, the founder of
the Color Girls Liberation Lab,and I'm so excited to have Jen
on.
So, jen, thank you for joining.
Jennifer Roberts (01:47):
Thank you for having me, aaliyah, I'm excited
to be here.
Aliya Cheyanne (01:50):
I'm so excited to have you.
So I just want to give a quicklittle intro about how I met you
and how I know about your work.
So I know you through Ashanteand Ashante is a former boss of
mine, a mentor and a friend andJen and Ashante friends and they
(02:10):
held a really just, powerfuland awesome retreat last year,
in 2023, that I got to join andbe a part of, and that's how I
met you in person.
But I had seen some of the workof Color Girls Liberation Lab
on Instagram prior to that and Ilove the quotes that you share,
just from pulling fromancestors and people in your
(02:32):
life friends, family, whoeverand just sharing really
important tidbits of information.
I love your mission toward justfreedom and liberty and safety
for Black women and others justfreedom and liberty and safety
for Black women and others andI'm just you know so inspired by
what you do.
So I wanted to spend some timetalking with you today and
that's how I met you, but, ofcourse, I want to give you an
(02:53):
opportunity to introduceyourself to the people and share
more about you.
So you know who is Jen, who areyou and what do you want people
to know about who you are today?
Jennifer Roberts (03:06):
Well, first, thank you for inviting me.
I love you know, I love hearingwhen dreams come to pass, and I
remember hearing you talk aboutwanting to do this when we met
each other, and so justcongratulations on you know,
something that you thought aboutin your brain coming out in
real life.
So first just want to say thatand, yeah, I feel I try to think
(03:30):
about how I describe myself,how I want people to see me
(03:51):
Sometimes changes depending onwhat part of my identity I feel
like I'm leaning into more atthe time, but I would say that I
want to be seen as a Blackwoman, a mother, an artist, a
creative, a dreamer, a designer,a my way to Atlanta and Chicago
and now right outside of DC tolive, and so I have had really
great experiences in my lifethat taught me a whole lot of
(04:14):
things and got me to meet a lotof people, especially a lot of
dope black women, which I feelreally blessed in my life to
have had so many really dopeblack women on my path and folks
that really show up for me, andso I think all roads were
leading to Color Girls Lab in asense and creating what I feel
(04:36):
like I've always had that I feellike other women haven't been
as fortunate to have.
And yeah, so that's a little bitabout how I see myself, or how
I'm thinking about myself.
In this moment, I feel like I'ma multi-task kid, so, like at
any given moment, I'll be like Iwant to highlight something
different.
But yeah, that's how I'm seeingmyself today.
Aliya Cheyanne (04:59):
Beautiful.
One of my favorite quotes orsayings that people say is that,
at the end of the day, wecontain multitudes, so how we
show up in different spacesvaries and, yeah, I described
myself one way today and a yearfrom now it might be different,
so I feel you on that, but thankyou.
So, yeah, I'd love to dive alittle bit more into Color Girls
(05:24):
Lab Color Girls Liberation Laband I would love to know what
you were doing before you foundthis purpose and this calling.
What work were you doing priorand what kind of led you to
wanting to create Color GirlsLiberation Lab?
You touched on it a little bitbefore creating more spaces like
what you've created foryourself and for others, but
(05:46):
what was that transition likefrom what we're doing before to
jumping into this work now?
Jennifer Roberts (05:52):
Yeah, I started my career as a teacher
on the South Side of Chicago, soI taught third grade and that
experience taught me a ton and,as I was when I was a teacher, I
didn't think I was going toteach forever, but I did think I
was going to maybe venture offinto med school, possibly at
some point had been.
My undergrad degree was apsychology, pre-med and um, but
(06:16):
teaching really opened up um one, me realizing that medicine was
not the path that I wanted touse to make change, and me
really being in a place where Icould see the inequities I had
grown up with show up and whatmy students were going through
(06:37):
decades later right, the samethings my brother was dealing
with my students were dealingwith to almost two decades after
the fact.
And so I think it changed myidea of how I wanted to leave my
own personal mark in the world.
And so I moved throughdifferent education spaces,
(06:57):
really focused in on racialequity in particular in
education specifically, equityin particular in education
specifically, and I found my wayto DC public schools and I
worked there for a few years andwhen I left DC public schools I
started my own race and equityconsulting firm.
And that was really because atthe time this was almost a
(07:18):
decade ago that is where Ithought I could make change.
I felt like I had a way ofgoing about talking about racial
equity that was very communitycentered and that focused less
on just calling out things thatwe had gotten comfortable with,
(07:40):
but really naming whitesupremacy what it?
It was like, talking aboutracial equity in a very direct
way, and so spent my time doingthat, and in that process, you
know, I came across a lot ofblack women who were either
leading this work at theirorganization and so I was
working with them, or were justat the places where I had either
(08:03):
past worked or might've been aclient of mine.
And no matter how great we gotthe organization to be right,
like those Black women stillwere marginalized in that space,
right.
No matter how much work we did,no matter how much it felt like
they belonged a little bit more, like they still had no place
to process what had happenedbefore, and like how they were
(08:24):
reconciling all of the shiftsthat people were making without
what they felt were probablygenuine intentions.
And so I started thinking abouthow much of a toll the work was
taking on me and what I waswatching happening to friends of
mine and other Black women too,and realizing the reason why I
was okay is that I had thiscircle of Black women around me
that I could say the truth to,and then they could say well,
(08:46):
what are we going to do?
How do we make this feel better?
And in the process, I was alsoleaving a relationship that I
had been in for almost 20 years,and so I was going through
multiple transitions of notknowing if the work I wanted to
do was where I wanted to be andthat I could see something
better for us and wanted it tobe a space of imagination and
(09:10):
play and design.
I had been working in spacesaround breast pump work and
doing hackathons around hackingthe breast pumping and family
leave and things like that thatpertain to what women were going
through.
And I was like, well, whatwould that look like if we just
did that amongst ourselves?
Like what if we spent more timelike using our life like a
(09:31):
laboratory and playing aroundand figuring out what we wanted,
versus taking all of thesethings that people have told
Black women we should be?
And so the lab really birthedout of.
Like what if I could create mycircle of friends for everybody.
And what if we could just getin here and be like, well, I
want it to look like this and Iwant it to look like this.
Well, let's try that and see,you know.
And so I think, the combinationof, like lots of things the
(09:53):
crossroads of my, you know, midat that time, my mid thirties
coming out of a relationship,I've been in for a really a
marriage, I've been in for areally long time transitioning
in my workspace as anentrepreneur and as a racial
equity consultant in the worldin 2020.
Like you know, everything justconverged and it was like this
is what I want.
(10:14):
So I'm going to create what Ithink I want, what I think I
hear other people want, and ifthey want it, they'll come and
we'll see, you know, and that'sreally how it came about.
I had the space to dream aboutit and I had people in my life
who were like we're going tohelp you execute it.
And so you know that that'swhere we are now almost three
(10:35):
years later.
Aliya Cheyanne (10:36):
That, like having the space to dream about
something, because only you canvisualize what you want to
create, and just having thespace to do that is so important
and what led to this moment.
Even thinking back on theracial equity work you were
doing with other women and women, you know, realizing what you
were feeling and experiencing,but also witnessing what they
(10:58):
were experiencing in differentplaces is so important.
I remember working at anorganization that was super,
super committed to racial equitywork, being a part of the
racial equity working group andstill having to navigate certain
experiences as a Black woman,despite what the organization
was supposedly doing.
(11:18):
Like it I don't know how todescribe it not out of body
experience, but it felt so likeit's like is this real?
Yeah?
Jennifer Roberts (11:30):
like a Twilight girl.
Aliya Cheyanne (11:31):
Yeah, just how to exactly Twilight Zone?
That's exactly right, and Ithink it's so beautiful to have
recognized those things and madethe transition and then created
the organization that you havenow, having space to dream
something beautiful for yourselfand create the way for others
to be involved too.
That is definitely an act ofliberation.
(11:54):
So I love that.
I think that's really amazingliberation.
So I love that.
I think that's really amazing.
I think people talk a lot aboutfounding and creating
businesses and diving intocreativity, and I think aspects
of it it all looks really justtransformative and I want to do
(12:15):
it and I can do it but there's alot of hardship that goes into
doing it too, like a lot ofpeople don't recognize like the
grit and the grind that goesinto getting to the other side.
So I'd love to know, maybe oneof the toughest aspects of even
founding your, your business,like there was an aspect of
(12:36):
going through some hard anddifficult transitionary things
in life, yes, but actuallycultivating the dream and
building the business, what wasone of the biggest hurdles you
had to get over and evenstarting it in the very
beginning?
Jennifer Roberts (13:00):
very beginning .
You know the funny thing aboutit and I'll tell you two things.
Like what was interesting inthe start when I first started
my consulting business that madeit easier, I think, to do this
one is at that time I honestlythought I had a bit of a cushion
and so I didn't have as muchfear.
I kind of was like oh, you know, I have a second income coming
in, because at that time I wasmarried and I was like, oh, I
can do it, right, like I canleap.
(13:21):
And then when all of that kindof fell apart, right, then it
really became a moment of for me.
Well, all I have to do is commita year to this.
Like I was.
Like, I know my skills, right,I can get a job, I can find
somewhere to work.
So like, let me just go hard onthis for a year and this will
give my brain a chance to restfrom the last place I'm at and
(13:42):
then I'll transition intosomething else.
And that's really what I tell.
I have told my asked myselfthat question every year for
like the last eight years.
Like it's, I never saw myselfas being a permanent
entrepreneur.
So for me it really is acheck-in with myself every year,
like or do we want to go putthe applications in for a job?
(14:04):
Like what do we want to do?
You know, and I'm not, sayingthat to discourage people, but
I'm saying it to like.
I do think that there's a levelof flexibility that comes with
entrepreneurship that makes itreally important for you to
decide why you want to do it,and so I wanted to have the
flexibility you want to do it,and so I wanted to have the
flexibility to be available formy daughter.
Like she was young, I wanted tobe able to go to school trips.
(14:28):
I wanted to be able to end workearly and pick her up from
school, like those were thethings that were important to me
at that time, and so I made thedecision about my career and,
like you know, I'm still gettingout of a little bit of debt
because of that and all of these.
I made choices, but they wereabout me living the life that I
felt like was most free for me,and for me that meant
entrepreneurship.
That gave me the mostflexibility, even with all the
(14:49):
hardship that comes with that.
Now I'm at the point whereshe's a little bit older, so
just saying I want to be therefor her is not a good enough
reason anymore to stay inentrepreneurship, with all of
the challenges that do come withit, and especially now me,
given the space that I was inbefore Colored Girls Lab, and
Colored Girls Lab still sits inthe racial healing, racial
justice space.
So, essentially, I'm justchanging the way I do my work,
(15:12):
but I'm still doing the samething.
And we know what has happenedsince 2020 in terms of the
support that's being given tothose of us who do this type of
work.
So, like I had a lot of successin 2020, 21, 22.
It is a lot harder right now tohave to keep that up at that
same level of pace, right.
So just being flexible or justhaving time for my daughter,
(15:34):
that's not a good enough reasonanymore.
Like I have to have anotherreason that is propelling me to
want to deal with all the otherthings, and for me, that is that
I really believe that I'm hereto create space for people to be
free.
I believe that is one of myvalues for myself and that is a
value I have for what I want tosee for other black women.
And until I could find I don'tknow that I could find any other
(15:58):
space where I could do this,that is now become my motivating
factor for saying, like I haveto figure out whatever.
That means sitting down withthe people who love me to be
like how can I generate whateverincome I need or the space I
need?
And to just trust my ancestorsand God that they put me on the
path.
So the provision is going to bemade and do the thing.
(16:19):
And so, like, I think thehardest part for me has been
like trusting myself andtrusting, like God and my
ancestors, that I'm doingexactly what I'm supposed to do
Because I do feel good doing it.
I don't feel uncomfortable, Idon't feel like I felt when I
was in my other jobs.
Right, I feel good and there'sa reason I feel good because I'm
(16:39):
supposed to be doing it.
So that means sometimes I've hadto get really creative about
how I get to keep doing it.
And right now, to be completelyhonest, like the hardest part
is money, it's capital.
Like I have every reason to gotry to put applications in right
now.
Like it is really really toughfor business owners and
(17:00):
particularly for those of us whoare working in this space.
You know, like people are here,people are helping, people are
showing up for me, like I'mputting in, you know, every
grant application I can think of.
You're like all the things thatwe all do when we really want
something.
But I would say at first, andsometimes, sometimes
consistently, it's been trustingmyself and then also, like you
(17:23):
double on finances onto that.
I think that that plays a parttoo.
But I think my approach to thefact that I never kind of saw
myself at first as being anentrepreneur for my life even
though I do now I didn't seethat at first it also lets me
detach from the idea ofentrepreneur as a persona, like
I'm not married to that.
(17:43):
So like if I decide at somepoint in my life that it's not
right for me to be anentrepreneur anymore and I'm
going to go because I found aplace that I really want to do
good work for and I will Like Iwill make the shift, just like
I've decided that theentrepreneur pursuit I was in at
one point is not the right onefor me and I'm shifting myself
(18:04):
into more of the work that thelab is doing.
I think that's the joy of beingan entrepreneur, if you let it
be.
But also you got to trustyourself, you got to have good
people around.
You know all of that stuff.
Aliya Cheyanne (18:16):
I think that's really powerful.
I I'm also realizing from someof what you know, all of that
stuff.
I think that's really powerful.
I I'm also realizing from someof what you shared, I realized
I'm I'm in a stage that you werein maybe like eight plus years
ago.
Um, just like shifting out ofcertain workspaces and
environments and like shiftinginto a consulting space.
(18:37):
Because I did start a consultingbusiness too, like in about
four years now, and I wasconsulting in communications and
I was doing that for maybeabout two years and I was like I
don't know if I want tocontinue doing this, like I am
going to put the application in,I am going to go get Bob.
(19:00):
And I did that and I would sayalmost immediately I was like
yeah, no.
And I was like no, and yeah,yeah.
And I'm grateful that I youknow, obviously still have the
(19:20):
business that I created.
I can continue to build on it.
I can continue to pivot andgrow and do additional things.
That I want to security when itcomes to work, because you can
have some degree of securitywith a job to the extent that
(19:44):
the job keeps your role.
At any given moment the job candecide to let you go.
But I understand the degree ofsecurity with that, but it's a
different beast chasing securitywith entrepreneurship because
it ebbs and flows and it comesin waves.
You really do have to lean onyour community.
You really do have to humbleyourself and get comfortable
(20:06):
with asking for help andsometimes it's over.
Yeah, like it's not alwayscomfortable.
Like it's not alwayscomfortable.
So it's really interesting.
But and I've also learned thatthere's no pride in asking for
what you need Like I'm leaningon my community heavier than
(20:28):
I've ever like tried to lean onthem.
Or like just you know showing upfor me in ways that I need and
pursuing all the grants.
Like you're pursuing the grantsand just you know doing my own
due diligence about how I canraise money for what I want to
do and um, but also beinggrateful for people in my
(20:49):
community who are showing up forme in different ways, like even
this conversation between youand I and you know reaching out
to folks and them even giving methe time of day and saying yes
to, like you know, educate meand others who are interested in
pursuing their own path andcreating their own lane.
So there's just so much in thatand, yeah, thank you for
sharing and being vulnerableabout your journey and the
(21:11):
hardships, because it's it's notalways like, it's not always
easy, it's not always the funstuff Like it gets real hard and
they don't tell you that.
Jennifer Roberts (21:20):
They don't tell you that part.
I mean like, well, they do, butthey don't.
You know, like I don't knowthat, like I knew it was going
to be hard to financially keepmyself afloat.
I knew that, especially becauseof what I do, there would be
these ebbs and flows of money,and I'm still learning how to
(21:40):
deal with that.
Right, you learn a lot aboutyour financial health.
Doing being an entrepreneurlike, oh boy, like I have to get
my stuff together and I'm stillnot all the way together, like
I've had to get myself togetherand I'm working on that.
I think that you know.
On top of all of those things,though, what I think you learned
the most is what, if you letyourself, is what you really
(22:01):
want.
So, just like you said, youwent back and then realized nope
, nope, nope, this is not for me.
I have other women in ourcommunity who took time away
from a job, took some time to dowhat they wanted to do on their
entrepreneurial journey, andthen really did decide like, hey
, no, I do want the particulartype of security that comes with
a job, but I know I'm not goingback for anything less than
(22:25):
this, this or this.
It needs to be this type ofperson that I'm working with,
this type of space.
And so they went back into theworkforce with a different
mindset about what they werewilling to accept willing to put
themselves through and so, yeah, they are happy in the space
they are in now.
They would be just as happy ifthey weren't in it and they were
doing their own thing too.
And now they know that, like Ihave both, like you said, I know
(22:46):
I have this that I can go backto, and to me that's the part of
the space I'm creating, or thespace I see other women creating
for Black women to dream biggerand dream more out loud.
That's the space that I feellike we're offering Choices.
You should have a choice, youshould get to have a choice, and
(23:08):
it shouldn't be hard for you tobe able to exercise that choice
that you dreamed up.
We should be able to find youthe community, the space, the
resources for you to be able toat least try it and then decide
like nope, that ain't what Iwant, or yep, that is what I
want, or I want some version ofthis, let me play some more.
And that is the space that Ihope to provide and the example
that I hope not just for me,like from all the other women
(23:29):
who are in our space theexamples of what it looks like
to do that type of playing withyour life until you find the
free space that feels right foryou, whether that's a nine to
five job or whether it'sbecoming an entrepreneur, and
for me and many other peoplearound me, entrepreneurship is
the right choice.
For us and other people won'tbe, and that's okay.
Aliya Cheyanne (23:49):
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
Like just that terminology oflike finding the space to play
and see what works for you.
That's so important.
Like finding the space to playand see what works for you,
that's so important.
Because when I took my firstcareer break, that was we're
both at together and I knewafter leaving that job that I
was like, yeah, I need, I needsomething different.
(24:12):
Like I need to decompress fromthe experience I had first and
foremost and these are going tobe some of my non-negotiables
entering the workforce again.
Like there's no way I can dealwith certain environments,
certain types of leadership,like all of these things like
(24:34):
cares, what matters, andbenefits too, because I'm also
like I've had good benefits injobs and I've had bad benefits
at jobs and I'm just like,listen, these are the types of
things I'm also like I've hadgood benefits and jobs and I've
had bad benefits and jobs andI'm just like listen these are
the types of things I'mtolerating, these are the things
that I'm not.
So I think just having thatclarity and being able to in my
case, I've teetered between bothover the last like several
years but just being clear onwhat I need and what I want, and
(24:56):
having the space and thecapacity to do it, because there
are a lot of people who want todo it and they don't have the
space to play, they don't havethe space to dream.
It's just focusing on how am Igoing to pay this next bill or
get this next meal on the table,yeah, there's no space to even
play or dream.
So even recognizing theprivilege and the ability to be
(25:18):
able to do that, or making thechoice that, all else be damned,
I'm going to do it anyway, it'sso important.
So I feel like you might'veanswered this without me asking
directly, but I would love tojust get a firm answer of what
you feel like is it's kind ofrewarding thing about the work
(25:42):
that you do.
Like I know creating the spacefor yourself and other women is
rewarding, but like in yourheart of hearts, like when you
think about your purpose, yourmission, like why you did all of
this.
Like what feels good in yourbody and your mind and your
heart as you do this work eachday.
Like what is the most rewardingthing to you that you can think
(26:03):
of.
Jennifer Roberts (26:05):
I think I have two, because I have one that's
like rewarding because of me,like the work I've done, but
then there's like for myself, myinternal work, but then there's
parts of it that are rewardingbecause of what I see other
people getting to experience.
So, like I, the most rewardingthing, I think for me is that
and I want to say it might'vebeen Ashante that said this to
(26:26):
me she was like this lab is notjust for other people, like this
lab is for you too, and I feellike that is what I have been
able to experience is my abilityto dream bigger, my ability to
just trust and really lean intothe things that feel good to me
(26:46):
and create more, and so I thinkthat has been the joy of what
I've been able to do is justcome up with ideas and watch
them happen and trust myselfthat they can, that I can do
them.
Um, that has been probably theone of the most rewarding things
as of late for me.
But then, um, I just anytime Ihear a woman who has been in our
(27:09):
space say that this space haschanged them, and I've been
hearing it a lot lately and I'mso grateful, like that is
probably the most rewardingthing outside is that this space
changed me, or this space hasme dreaming more.
Those types of compliments are,you know, like?
Those are the things that makeme tear up.
Those are the things that makeme like, nope, you can't go back
(27:31):
to a regular job.
Are the things that are like no, no, no, like we're.
We have to keep going becausepeople are operating differently
, because they found themselvesin the space with, with the
women that come in, come in here, like they they have, they have
(27:52):
found their way here and it hasallowed them to just see
something so different for theirlives and to watch it happen in
different ways throughdifferent women, like that has
probably been.
Aliya Cheyanne (28:04):
I'm just grateful to be able to do it
yeah, I feel like so only gottento experience like one
in-person experience because ofthe retreat last year, but I see
so much of the spaces thatyou're cultivating for women,
like I know you just had a likea really fun um listening party
for Cowboy Carter and it wasreally nice to see.
(28:25):
I know I know that blip of areel is only like a clip of just
the joy and fun that was in theroom, but even just watching
that I'm just like damn.
Like look, look at communityLike room.
But even just watching that,I'm just like damn.
Like look look at community,like this is so nice, like how
fun would it have been to bethere and like join you all, and
I even think about even thatone time at that retreat.
(28:49):
Just the oh my gosh, myemergency alert is going on
because of the earthquake.
That's so embarrassing.
Jennifer Roberts (28:55):
Sorry, no it's not embarrassing.
Aliya Cheyanne (28:58):
At least you're working now that earthquake was
like before we even got on to dothis like, like, what is going
on?
No, you are so late, I wouldhave already been buried beneath
the rubble.
Jennifer Roberts (29:12):
At this point, I'm not ready for the
apocalypse.
We are not ready listen.
Aliya Cheyanne (29:19):
I'm not ready at all.
I say all the time.
I love certain shows that are,like you know, apocalypse,
zombie, like I'll watch thatstuff.
But in my reality I say all thetime, listen, just lay me down,
cause I'm not fighting withy'all over food.
I'm not like, I'm okay, take meto my ancestors, I'm out.
(29:43):
Like, take me to the, to theancestral plane, I'm good.
Um, that's not.
I'm like I don't even feel thefirst.
I don't even feel feeling whathappened.
Okay, about the aftershocks,anyway, but I was saying, even
thinking back to the retreat andjust the space that you
(30:05):
cultivated for us, we'd workshopwith the flowers and creating
our own flowers and sage sticksthat we could burn, and just
even learning more about sagesticks that we could burn, and
just even learning more aboutherbal medicine, really, which
(30:28):
is deeply rooted to ourancestors.
I'm going to pull this alltogether.
But recently I went to NewOrleans and I went with my mom
and my sisters and I havecomplicated feelings around
visiting plantations, but it wasmy third time visiting a
plantation.
They have them out there.
They have Oak Alley, they havethe Laura Plantation and then
(30:49):
they have the Whitney Plantationand this time I went to the
Whitney because the Whitney ithonestly it does center the
lives of enslaved people morethan the others, whereas like
the other ones you go to, it'sall about the big house and the
owners and I'm like I don't carebro, like so interesting, it's
(31:10):
so interesting to me.
I feel conflicted, being onground like that, knowing the
history, but also finding peace.
It was a beautiful, peacefulday and they have these huge oak
trees everywhere and othertrees have been growing for
hundreds of years and I'm justlike I always think to myself
(31:33):
the things that the treeswitnessed and the things that
the trees know from that landand that ground.
I'm just like it's a verysurreal experience going.
But I remember the stories, likethere was a professor who did a
huge project to collect thenarratives and the stories of
people who worked the grounds byforce because they were
(31:55):
enslaved.
But there was one in particularand I don't even remember the
specific name, but this personwas retelling the story of how
they couldn't have access tomedicine or medication because
they didn't have money and itwasn't.
You know, they weren't able todo it because they were enslaved
people.
But they were talking aboutwhat they foraged from the land
(32:16):
around them, passed down fromgenerations, about what they
forage from the land around thempassed down from generations.
About what they knew would healwounds, what they knew would
help settle their stomachs, whatthey knew was good for pain,
and there's a foraging groupthat I'm a part of here in New
York City and I've gone on someforaging experiences with them
and learned more about plantmedicine and to bring it back to
(32:37):
the event last year with youand the workshop with the
flowers, just even learning moreabout just the herbal medicine
of the flowers and what theyrepresent, what they meant to
our ancestors, what they meanspiritually, is so important I
still have.
I never burned my stick.
Jennifer Roberts (32:53):
I still have it on my altar.
Aliya Cheyanne (32:56):
Yeah, but, and the beauty of having that
experience and being able tobring my grandmother who loves
gardening, who loves flowers,who loves that from a time she
recalls back home in Jamaicawith her own grandmother, and
how we keep these traditionsrich and alive and we create
space for each other to play andcall on things that our
ancestors knew and know and handdown to us in different ways, I
(33:21):
thought was so beautiful.
It's a memory and an experiencethat I keep with me.
So I say all that to say thatwhat you're doing has such a
huge purpose beyond you, biggerthan you.
The way that you're impactingpeople in your lives, the
memories that you're creating,the experiences that you're
creating, like their time, meana lot.
(33:42):
They go deep and they go backfurther than you know, because
there's so much that you canrecall, like when you have a
moment to play and to dream andto do these things and think
about what it signified forpeople in your past too.
So I'm just grateful for thework that you're doing, and I'm
(34:02):
not in the DMV area, but I seeit and I love it and I always
share it and it feels like homein many ways.
That was a very roundabout wayof saying it feels like home.
In many ways, like that was avery roundabout way of saying it
feels like home because itcalls on memories that I might
not remember firsthand but maybe, like my ancestors, might
remember.
So it feels very important andsignificant to me, um, and I can
(34:25):
call on those things when Ineed them.
So, yeah, that was a lot, yeah,thank you no, thank you so much
.
Jennifer Roberts (34:34):
Like you know that feels good, like if you're
using a metaphor like that, thatmeans home feels good to you.
And that is so important to mein this space is that people
know it feels good.
One of the things I've noticedrecently is that more people are
okay showing up by themselvesto things that I do and I don't
(34:56):
know about you, but I'm kind ofextroverted as I am, I have a
lot of social anxiety, so goingto something by myself takes a
whole lot of effort, and so thefact that I know that's probably
the case for a lot of peopleand they feel okay showing up by
themselves because they know Imight not know anybody there and
(35:17):
that's okay, because anybodythere is going to feel good,
like that is what I want, likeyou know, like that if no place
feels safe, you know you couldfeel safe here, and so the idea
of this place feeling like home,I really appreciate that, and I
do think that we're healing ourancestors when we do this type
of work.
I think we're healing ourselves,oh yeah, and I think that our
ancestors are happy and gladthat we are taking time to do
(35:40):
some of these things.
Like I still think about yourgrandmother and how much she lit
up, like doing all of theflowers and, like you know,
telling us what she rememberedor like what she knew, like all
her knowledge and I, when you'retalking about making memories,
like that was.
That is a core memory for me.
I'm not going to forget that,like her being there was really
(36:01):
important and I'm so glad thatshe was, and it was very
reminiscent of my owngrandmother, who was a master
gardener and like, really justbeautiful, always beautiful
flowers.
And so you know, I think you'reright, I think we're healing
our own children, we're healingour ancestors, we're doing all
of it and it feels good and italso just helps us not tolerate
(36:23):
the BS, like we're, just likewe're not going to allow that
type of feeling to infiltratewith so much.
After you can experiencefeelings like this.
And so, yeah, the communitypart is this Like the cheat code
is going to be being able toget to your friends on foot.
You know, like, how close areyou to your community, like can
(36:44):
you walk, Can you get to them?
Aliya Cheyanne (36:46):
Like you know that's going to really work.
Yeah, yeah, community I thinkabout all the things I've gone
to alone, like in the past,because either people weren't
available or interested, but Istill wanted to do it and I
showed up anyway and had a greattime and made great memories.
So I think a lot of people justeven me too, a lot of people are
(37:07):
just looking for community.
They're trying to find theirpeople in their tribe, if they
haven't already, or if they have, maybe trying to expand it, and
I think the more space existswhere people can find themselves
and see themselves and do that,the better it is.
So, yeah, okay, I feel like wewe talked about a lot of heavy
(37:27):
and deep stuff, but I would loveto know.
I would love to know, like I'veheard many entrepreneurs that,
like having a ritual, having aroutine, having self-care is so
important because it can be veryheavy and very hard.
So I'd love to know, like, whatkind of keeps you grounded in
(37:49):
this work that you do every day?
Like, what are some ways youtake care of yourself to be able
to give of yourself so much todo the work that you do?
Jennifer Roberts (37:59):
Yeah, so when I'm doing what I'm supposed to
be doing, dance is a ritual ofmine and I'm in the studio
taking dance classes and I havebeen a little out of it, out of
that habit for a bit and I'mlearning.
I'm kind of like discoveringwhy it's been harder for me to
go, and so I've been likejournaling about it and talking
(38:21):
to people about it.
I'm realizing that I knew, Ialways knew, dance was really
important to me and it's a veryimportant ritual, both for my
freedom practice but also myrest practice.
And you know, processing whenit isn't hitting the way it used
to, has been interesting for meto like process.
Why that is so?
But dance is normally a ritual,and then also I'm really into
(38:45):
music and so either just playingan album that I really love
from top to bottom and dancingaround in my house, or going to
a show from some of my favoriteartists I try to make time to do
those types of things.
And then in general I reallylove good food with good people,
(39:06):
and so a lot of my rituals dohave to deal with.
Some of them are alone, but alot of my rituals have to deal
with community, like I like tobe with people and so, because I
create community, sometimes myreset things are community where
I didn't have to do thecreating, where I just get to go
with the people who I know aregoing to charge me up and make
(39:26):
me feel good, so like a reallygood meal with like two or three
of my close girlfriends wherewe can just laugh and we're not
thinking about like we justtrying all the things.
and you know, that's kind ofsomething that I do pretty much
on a monthly basis just to likereset myself with my people so
those are like my communityrituals that I feel like are
(39:47):
important to me and then my likekind of solitude rituals are.
I do daydreaming.
I have a place near my, my inmy room that I like to sit in,
that has like I can see out thewindow and I'll just sit there
and I'll daydream a little bit,drink some tea, you know that
type of thing.
So those are kind of the thingsthat I do to reset myself and
(40:09):
I'm actually it's interestingyou ask that question because
I'm in a bit of a transitionright now.
So I'm actually trying out newrituals, like I'm trying to get
used to a new morning andevening ritual that's going to
work better for me.
I just got recently diagnosedwith ADHD, so I'm like also like
I have to get my routines inorder to get my routines in
(40:30):
order, and so this has been likea time of experimentation for
me, too, where I'm like, okay, Ihave to, I actually need to
decide some other rituals thatwill make me feel both good in
my body but also just have mymindset.
Aliya Cheyanne (40:45):
for the creativity I want Peace of mind.
Jennifer Roberts (40:46):
Yeah, so yeah.
Aliya Cheyanne (40:49):
I love my rituals, man.
Jennifer Roberts (40:50):
That's the freedom that you get from
entrepreneurship.
To do that if you let yourself.
I feel like that is a freedom.
I have gotten fromentrepreneurship.
I don't think I would have hadin the same way in my other
regular job and I value it a lot.
Aliya Cheyanne (41:05):
Oh yeah, I love all of those.
I'm more introverted.
I feel like I can be anambivert when I need to be, but
I'm definitely more introverted.
But I also love connecting withmy friends on a somewhat of a
basis or a schedule kind of.
So some people we have thingspenned on the calendars.
(41:26):
Others we just hit each otherup when we're missing each other
.
We want to do things, so I lovethat.
But also one of my solituderituals is giving myself the
space to daydream.
Like I also have a cozy spot inmy room where I drink my tea.
That's by a window, so I lovethat.
(41:59):
One of my one of my best friendsalso um struggle in deficit
disorder, um, adhd or ADD, andI'm noticing also that a lot of
black women are gettingdiagnosed with things so much
later in life because certainthings show up differently for
us.
So there's like a wave withwomen getting um diagnosed with
ADD or ADHD, but also likelearning they're on the spectrum
of autism and like so manythings because it shows up
differently for us.
(42:21):
Or you know, we're learningthat AD shows up differently for
us than it typically does foryou know other people.
So it's just very interestingthat so many of us are learning
new aspects of ourselves laterin in life when it could have
been helpful to know sooner, sothat you don't think like
(42:41):
something's wrong with you, youdon't think you're great.
You know like you could have.
So many of us could havelearned to manage and navigate
life differently had we knownsooner.
You know Absolutely.
So definitely.
I'm sending you love and careon your support with and support
(43:02):
on your journey with that, asyou're learning more about it
and how to like reshape yourlife, basically to hold space
for these aspects of yourselfand how it shows up in life and
work and everything else.
So, yeah, that's reallyinteresting.
Thank you for sharing that aswell.
Oh, thank you.
Yeah, of course.
Yeah, I don't know.
(43:25):
I feel like I don't know.
This has just been really great, but I really have enjoyed this
with you, like you're, yeah,sharing so much wisdom and I
think that's been reallypowerful.
But something that I findinteresting is the way that
different people think aboutlegacy.
(43:46):
For some people, that lookslike the work they're doing.
For some people, that lookslike, looks like you know
parenthood and their children.
For some people, that lookstotally different.
Jennifer Roberts (43:58):
So I would love to know what you think
about legacy and more about thelegacy you're building um and
what that looks like to you yeah, I think about legacy twofold,
like and I guess this is just mymy philosophy on almost
everything is like both, and youknow, small and big, very
(44:21):
fractal, like thinking so, um,on the like, my immediate space.
When I think about legacy, likeI have a daughter, I am
constantly thinking about whatlife is going to look like for
her and how I leave.
I don't know that I personally,though I think I'm putting
things into the world that aregood.
I don't know that I personallycan make this world any better
(44:43):
for her, but I do hope that I amshowing her some ways to
navigate it better, right, tonavigate it better than I did,
to navigate it better than hergrandmother did and her great
grandmother before that.
Right, and I hope that I'mshowing her like ways to live
freely, to make her own choices,to stand up for herself, in the
(45:05):
way that I'm doing that myself,not because I'm always telling
her, but because she literallysees me do it.
Like she said, she's seeing merest and she's seeing me take
time for myself, like I want tobe a model in that way, because
I really think I hope my legacyis like starting to be one of
the people in my lineage thatsays that rest is ours for the
(45:27):
taking and that dreaming is whatwe do.
And so I think that that's whatI hope I'm offering to her,
that I hope that makes easierfor her children and her
children after that andeverything.
And then on the communal side ofthings, I think I'm doing and
trying to do that same work incommunity with Black women
(45:47):
through the lab, so that we canhave the same thing that people
just have these examples thatthey can see of what it looks
like to be and live freely, andthat it looks a lot of different
ways, you know.
And so I think I hope my legacyis that people look back and say
, like that person or that spaceor people who were in that
(46:09):
space taught me how to be moreexpansive in what I believe was
possible for myself.
And so, yeah, I think I look atlegacy both for my family and
then as a community as a whole.
And so I don't know thatanything I do is going to be big
enough for it to be rememberedor go down in history.
But I do know that energypermeates and it doesn't go away
(46:33):
, and so I hope I'm putting theright the energy that will keep
these feelings of freedom andthis ability to want and desire
it in the folks who have been inmy orbit's lineages for forever
, until we don't exist anymore.
Aliya Cheyanne (46:52):
Yeah.
You know, that's so big, jen,that's beautiful and that's so
big, like, on the one hand, onthe one hand, to say, like you
know how to print, this workmight leave, and then, on the
other hand, to say, like I'mimpacting, I want to impact
lineages like that.
That's big and I think that'sexactly what you're doing Like
(47:14):
whether you notice it or not,you're planting big seeds.
Jennifer Roberts (47:16):
You're planting big seeds, thank you,
and you know, I think, the waythat I make myself not feel the
way, that the reason why I waslike, oh, this doesn't feel like
I'm going to leave, I guess,when I think about doing
something like monumental, likesomething that might end up
being in a history book orshowing up, like I don't see
myself doing anything like that,you know.
(47:37):
But I think it feels lessdaunting because I'm just doing
my part with the locus ofcontrol I have, and that's the
part that I think we all coulddo, like we all can do more
within the locus of control wehave, and we don't always use
that, and so I think it feelsless daunting because I feel
(47:57):
like I do have a good communityand I do feel like they trust me
, and so within this very smalllocus of control, I think I can
do a lot to change mindsets,right, and so I'm going to just
do that.
And I know those people gottheir own locus of control, that
then they can change something,and I'm going to just trust
that they will.
I'm going to just do my part inthis so that the pressure is
(48:18):
off.
I'm having fun with it.
If we impact a thousand people,great, but guess what?
These 10 people that are righthere?
I know they're different, andso I'm going to just go ahead
and play with that.
So I think that that is what Itry to focus on more, and that
really came from doing all thisracial equity work.
I had to let go of the ideathat I might not ever see what
(48:42):
I'm dreaming of in my lifetime,but I do know that there are
some very small microcosms ofpeople who operate differently
because we made something reallygreat together.
Differently because we madesomething really great together.
Aliya Cheyanne (48:54):
Yeah, and I love that.
I wish I still had this exactquote in front of me.
But I saw something the otherday and I don't remember where,
if it was Instagram or TikTok,but the person was basically
doing the math and saying, likeit took this many ancestors to
make you and it was like, over,however, you got to this now,
over 240 something or 250something ancestors to make just
(49:19):
me.
When you think about all thesets of parents that had to come
together to make me, to make myparents, to make my
grandparents, to make my greatgrandparents, to make my great,
great and I, when I say you'replanting seeds is, even if your
name or color girls liberationlab doesn't go down in a history
(49:40):
book, you're planting a seed.
Now that, many generationslater, when, when we're not here
anymore, someone is, I have thespace to rest and I have the
space to dream, because myancestor did that and they
planted that seed going down andI think that's so beautiful and
(50:02):
I think that's just morepowerful than you know.
So you're not going to feel allof it now and in this lifetime
you're making a huge differencefor lifetimes to come and I love
that if there was one piece ofadvice, or if there was
something you wish.
You knew when you first started, that you think would benefit
(50:35):
another entrepreneur who'sstarting out now.
If you have any tidbits of justadvice or wisdom you'd like to
share, I'd love for you to sharethat with our audience.
Jennifer Roberts (50:46):
I think, get the right people around you.
Whatever the right people areyou, whatever the right people
are and people you can bevulnerable with, people you can
ask for help from or who canfind you help, even if they
can't give it to you, but thatyou can ask and say that you
need help from.
I think those are the people.
(51:08):
That is what I wish I wouldhave done more of in the
beginning and that I'm glad Ihave now.
And I say that because there'sso many times where either we
think we're by ourselves in abusiness mistake or a business
venture and we're not byourselves.
There are other people eitherstruggling through the same
thing or who have overcome thesame thing, and as soon as we
(51:31):
open our mouths and ask for help, we usually find out we're not
alone, and then we can get aboutthe business of figuring out
how to fix it.
And so I just wish I had toldmore people earlier things that
I was struggling with and foundthe right kind of crew of people
to have around me that couldhelp remind me of things that I
(51:53):
had promised myself I would do,and then also that I could be
vulnerable with and ask for helpfrom.
I do think I have that now andit's making a big difference,
and so that's why I wish inthose first few years of
business I had done that.
I don't know if I had as manyexamples to look at, and I feel
like I have way more now, and so, yeah, that would be my advice
(52:16):
A good core group of people thatyou can trust and be vulnerable
with and ask for help from.
Aliya Cheyanne (52:22):
I love it.
Jen, I just thank you so muchfor taking some time to chat
with me and the audience andshare more about your journey
and your work.
I really appreciate it.
This has been really dope andyou're so knowledgeable and so
wise and this is just reallygreat.
So thank you so much for comingon here.
Jennifer Roberts (52:39):
I had such a good time.
I appreciate you asking me allthese good questions, so thank
you.
Aliya Cheyanne (52:46):
That makes me happy here too, so let the
people know where to find you.
Jennifer Roberts (52:54):
You can find out more about colored girls
liberation lab at colored girlslaborg on the web or colored
girls lab on Instagram.
If you're interested inbecoming a member, you can find
that out on our website or go tocommunitycoloredgirlslaborg.
So all of those places arewhere you can find out what's
(53:16):
going on with us.
Aliya Cheyanne (53:18):
That I link that in the show notes as well, so
it's easy for everyone.
And thank you again.
This is great.
Thank you, I had a great time.
Hey friend, welcome back to the show.
I'm so glad to have you backand, as I mentioned, we are
still very much on a briefhiatus, so we're doing a couple
of replays before new episodesdrop.
This week I wanted to revisitour episode with Jennifer
Roberts, who is the founder ofColored Girls Liberation Lab.
(00:21):
About a year ago we had done anepisode with Jen called Dream,
rest Play and it's still such adeeply impactful episode for me.
I reference it a lot in otherepisodes.
Our conversation was important,it was rich, it was lovely.
We talked about legacy and theimportance of dreaming and
(00:43):
resting and regulating ournervous systems and all of the
important things to just be well.
I thought it was especiallyimportant to revisit this
episode, especially during thistime that we're in, where more
Black women could use somedreaming, some resting and some
playing to navigate these times.
So with that, let's jump intothis replay, and I hope you
(01:06):
enjoy it.
If you've heard it before, Ihope it's nice to revisit, and
if you haven't heard it beforeand you're hearing it for the
first time, I hope you enjoy itjust as much.
So with that, let's jump intothis replay.
I hope you enjoy theconversation and if you do.
Please be sure to leave areview for the show.
Let me know what you think, andfeel free to send a text to the
(01:29):
show at any time.
There's always a link in theepisode description to text the
show.
All right, friend, let's jumpin.
So excited today to be joinedby Jen Roberts, the founder of
the Color Girls Liberation Lab,and I'm so excited to have Jen
on.
So, jen, thank you for joining.
Jennifer Roberts (01:47):
Thank you for having me, aaliyah, I'm excited
to be here.
Aliya Cheyanne (01:50):
I'm so excited to have you.
So I just want to give a quicklittle intro about how I met you
and how I know about your work.
So I know you through Ashanteand Ashante is a former boss of
mine, a mentor and a friend andJen and Ashante friends and they
(02:10):
held a really just, powerfuland awesome retreat last year,
in 2023, that I got to join andbe a part of, and that's how I
met you in person.
But I had seen some of the workof Color Girls Liberation Lab
on Instagram prior to that and Ilove the quotes that you share,
just from pulling fromancestors and people in your
(02:32):
life friends, family, whoeverand just sharing really
important tidbits of information.
I love your mission toward justfreedom and liberty and safety
for Black women and others justfreedom and liberty and safety
for Black women and others andI'm just you know so inspired by
what you do.
So I wanted to spend some timetalking with you today and
that's how I met you, but, ofcourse, I want to give you an
(02:53):
opportunity to introduceyourself to the people and share
more about you.
So you know who is Jen, who areyou and what do you want people
to know about who you are today?
Jennifer Roberts (03:06):
Well, first, thank you for inviting me.
I love you know, I love hearingwhen dreams come to pass, and I
remember hearing you talk aboutwanting to do this when we met
each other, and so justcongratulations on you know,
something that you thought aboutin your brain coming out in
real life.
So first just want to say thatand, yeah, I feel I try to think
(03:30):
about how I describe myself,how I want people to see me
(03:51):
Sometimes changes depending onwhat part of my identity I feel
like I'm leaning into more atthe time, but I would say that I
want to be seen as a Blackwoman, a mother, an artist, a
creative, a dreamer, a designer,a my way to Atlanta and Chicago
and now right outside of DC tolive, and so I have had really
great experiences in my lifethat taught me a whole lot of
(04:14):
things and got me to meet a lotof people, especially a lot of
dope black women, which I feelreally blessed in my life to
have had so many really dopeblack women on my path and folks
that really show up for me, andso I think all roads were
leading to Color Girls Lab in asense and creating what I feel
(04:36):
like I've always had that I feellike other women haven't been
as fortunate to have.
And yeah, so that's a little bitabout how I see myself, or how
I'm thinking about myself.
In this moment, I feel like I'ma multi-task kid, so, like at
any given moment, I'll be like Iwant to highlight something
different.
But yeah, that's how I'm seeingmyself today.
Aliya Cheyanne (04:59):
Beautiful.
One of my favorite quotes orsayings that people say is that,
at the end of the day, wecontain multitudes, so how we
show up in different spacesvaries and, yeah, I described
myself one way today and a yearfrom now it might be different,
so I feel you on that, but thankyou.
So, yeah, I'd love to dive alittle bit more into Color Girls
(05:24):
Lab Color Girls Liberation Laband I would love to know what
you were doing before you foundthis purpose and this calling.
What work were you doing priorand what kind of led you to
wanting to create Color GirlsLiberation Lab?
You touched on it a little bitbefore creating more spaces like
what you've created foryourself and for others, but
(05:46):
what was that transition likefrom what we're doing before to
jumping into this work now?
Jennifer Roberts (05:52):
Yeah, I started my career as a teacher
on the South Side of Chicago, soI taught third grade and that
experience taught me a ton and,as I was when I was a teacher, I
didn't think I was going toteach forever, but I did think I
was going to maybe venture offinto med school, possibly at
some point had been.
My undergrad degree was apsychology, pre-med and um, but
(06:16):
teaching really opened up um one, me realizing that medicine was
not the path that I wanted touse to make change, and me
really being in a place where Icould see the inequities I had
grown up with show up and whatmy students were going through
(06:37):
decades later right, the samethings my brother was dealing
with my students were dealingwith to almost two decades after
the fact.
And so I think it changed myidea of how I wanted to leave my
own personal mark in the world.
And so I moved throughdifferent education spaces,
(06:57):
really focused in on racialequity in particular in
education specifically, equityin particular in education
specifically, and I found my wayto DC public schools and I
worked there for a few years andwhen I left DC public schools I
started my own race and equityconsulting firm.
And that was really because atthe time this was almost a
(07:18):
decade ago that is where Ithought I could make change.
I felt like I had a way ofgoing about talking about racial
equity that was very communitycentered and that focused less
on just calling out things thatwe had gotten comfortable with,
(07:40):
but really naming whitesupremacy what it?
It was like, talking aboutracial equity in a very direct
way, and so spent my time doingthat, and in that process, you
know, I came across a lot ofblack women who were either
leading this work at theirorganization and so I was
working with them, or were justat the places where I had either
(08:03):
past worked or might've been aclient of mine.
And no matter how great we gotthe organization to be right,
like those Black women stillwere marginalized in that space,
right.
No matter how much work we did,no matter how much it felt like
they belonged a little bit more, like they still had no place
to process what had happenedbefore, and like how they were
(08:24):
reconciling all of the shiftsthat people were making without
what they felt were probablygenuine intentions.
And so I started thinking abouthow much of a toll the work was
taking on me and what I waswatching happening to friends of
mine and other Black women too,and realizing the reason why I
was okay is that I had thiscircle of Black women around me
that I could say the truth to,and then they could say well,
(08:46):
what are we going to do?
How do we make this feel better?
And in the process, I was alsoleaving a relationship that I
had been in for almost 20 years,and so I was going through
multiple transitions of notknowing if the work I wanted to
do was where I wanted to be andthat I could see something
better for us and wanted it tobe a space of imagination and
(09:10):
play and design.
I had been working in spacesaround breast pump work and
doing hackathons around hackingthe breast pumping and family
leave and things like that thatpertain to what women were going
through.
And I was like, well, whatwould that look like if we just
did that amongst ourselves?
Like what if we spent more timelike using our life like a
(09:31):
laboratory and playing aroundand figuring out what we wanted,
versus taking all of thesethings that people have told
Black women we should be?
And so the lab really birthedout of.
Like what if I could create mycircle of friends for everybody.
And what if we could just getin here and be like, well, I
want it to look like this and Iwant it to look like this.
Well, let's try that and see,you know.
And so I think, the combinationof, like lots of things the
(09:53):
crossroads of my, you know, midat that time, my mid thirties
coming out of a relationship,I've been in for a really a
marriage, I've been in for areally long time transitioning
in my workspace as anentrepreneur and as a racial
equity consultant in the worldin 2020.
Like you know, everything justconverged and it was like this
is what I want.
(10:14):
So I'm going to create what Ithink I want, what I think I
hear other people want, and ifthey want it, they'll come and
we'll see, you know, and that'sreally how it came about.
I had the space to dream aboutit and I had people in my life
who were like we're going tohelp you execute it.
And so you know that that'swhere we are now almost three
(10:35):
years later.
Aliya Cheyanne (10:36):
That, like having the space to dream about
something, because only you canvisualize what you want to
create, and just having thespace to do that is so important
and what led to this moment.
Even thinking back on theracial equity work you were
doing with other women and women, you know, realizing what you
were feeling and experiencing,but also witnessing what they
(10:58):
were experiencing in differentplaces is so important.
I remember working at anorganization that was super,
super committed to racial equitywork, being a part of the
racial equity working group andstill having to navigate certain
experiences as a Black woman,despite what the organization
was supposedly doing.
(11:18):
Like it I don't know how todescribe it not out of body
experience, but it felt so likeit's like is this real?
Yeah?
Jennifer Roberts (11:30):
like a Twilight girl.
Aliya Cheyanne (11:31):
Yeah, just how to exactly Twilight Zone?
That's exactly right, and Ithink it's so beautiful to have
recognized those things and madethe transition and then created
the organization that you havenow, having space to dream
something beautiful for yourselfand create the way for others
to be involved too.
That is definitely an act ofliberation.
(11:54):
So I love that.
I think that's really amazingliberation.
So I love that.
I think that's really amazing.
I think people talk a lot aboutfounding and creating
businesses and diving intocreativity, and I think aspects
of it it all looks really justtransformative and I want to do
(12:15):
it and I can do it but there's alot of hardship that goes into
doing it too, like a lot ofpeople don't recognize like the
grit and the grind that goesinto getting to the other side.
So I'd love to know, maybe oneof the toughest aspects of even
founding your, your business,like there was an aspect of
(12:36):
going through some hard anddifficult transitionary things
in life, yes, but actuallycultivating the dream and
building the business, what wasone of the biggest hurdles you
had to get over and evenstarting it in the very
beginning?
Jennifer Roberts (13:00):
very beginning .
You know the funny thing aboutit and I'll tell you two things.
Like what was interesting inthe start when I first started
my consulting business that madeit easier, I think, to do this
one is at that time I honestlythought I had a bit of a cushion
and so I didn't have as muchfear.
I kind of was like oh, you know, I have a second income coming
in, because at that time I wasmarried and I was like, oh, I
can do it, right, like I canleap.
(13:21):
And then when all of that kindof fell apart, right, then it
really became a moment of for me.
Well, all I have to do is commita year to this.
Like I was.
Like, I know my skills, right,I can get a job, I can find
somewhere to work.
So like, let me just go hard onthis for a year and this will
give my brain a chance to restfrom the last place I'm at and
(13:42):
then I'll transition intosomething else.
And that's really what I tell.
I have told my asked myselfthat question every year for
like the last eight years.
Like it's, I never saw myselfas being a permanent
entrepreneur.
So for me it really is acheck-in with myself every year,
like or do we want to go putthe applications in for a job?
(14:04):
Like what do we want to do?
You know, and I'm not, sayingthat to discourage people, but
I'm saying it to like.
I do think that there's a levelof flexibility that comes with
entrepreneurship that makes itreally important for you to
decide why you want to do it,and so I wanted to have the
flexibility you want to do it,and so I wanted to have the
flexibility to be available formy daughter.
Like she was young, I wanted tobe able to go to school trips.
(14:28):
I wanted to be able to end workearly and pick her up from
school, like those were thethings that were important to me
at that time, and so I made thedecision about my career and,
like you know, I'm still gettingout of a little bit of debt
because of that and all of these.
I made choices, but they wereabout me living the life that I
felt like was most free for me,and for me that meant
entrepreneurship.
That gave me the mostflexibility, even with all the
(14:49):
hardship that comes with that.
Now I'm at the point whereshe's a little bit older, so
just saying I want to be therefor her is not a good enough
reason anymore to stay inentrepreneurship, with all of
the challenges that do come withit, and especially now me,
given the space that I was inbefore Colored Girls Lab, and
Colored Girls Lab still sits inthe racial healing, racial
justice space.
So, essentially, I'm justchanging the way I do my work,
(15:12):
but I'm still doing the samething.
And we know what has happenedsince 2020 in terms of the
support that's being given tothose of us who do this type of
work.
So, like I had a lot of successin 2020, 21, 22.
It is a lot harder right now tohave to keep that up at that
same level of pace, right.
So just being flexible or justhaving time for my daughter,
(15:34):
that's not a good enough reasonanymore.
Like I have to have anotherreason that is propelling me to
want to deal with all the otherthings, and for me, that is that
I really believe that I'm hereto create space for people to be
free.
I believe that is one of myvalues for myself and that is a
value I have for what I want tosee for other black women.
And until I could find I don'tknow that I could find any other
(15:58):
space where I could do this,that is now become my motivating
factor for saying, like I haveto figure out whatever.
That means sitting down withthe people who love me to be
like how can I generate whateverincome I need or the space I
need?
And to just trust my ancestorsand God that they put me on the
path.
So the provision is going to bemade and do the thing.
(16:19):
And so, like, I think thehardest part for me has been
like trusting myself andtrusting, like God and my
ancestors, that I'm doingexactly what I'm supposed to do
Because I do feel good doing it.
I don't feel uncomfortable, Idon't feel like I felt when I
was in my other jobs.
Right, I feel good and there'sa reason I feel good because I'm
(16:39):
supposed to be doing it.
So that means sometimes I've hadto get really creative about
how I get to keep doing it.
And right now, to be completelyhonest, like the hardest part
is money, it's capital.
Like I have every reason to gotry to put applications in right
now.
Like it is really really toughfor business owners and
(17:00):
particularly for those of us whoare working in this space.
You know, like people are here,people are helping, people are
showing up for me, like I'mputting in, you know, every
grant application I can think of.
You're like all the things thatwe all do when we really want
something.
But I would say at first, andsometimes, sometimes
consistently, it's been trustingmyself and then also, like you
(17:23):
double on finances onto that.
I think that that plays a parttoo.
But I think my approach to thefact that I never kind of saw
myself at first as being anentrepreneur for my life even
though I do now I didn't seethat at first it also lets me
detach from the idea ofentrepreneur as a persona, like
I'm not married to that.
(17:43):
So like if I decide at somepoint in my life that it's not
right for me to be anentrepreneur anymore and I'm
going to go because I found aplace that I really want to do
good work for and I will Like Iwill make the shift, just like
I've decided that theentrepreneur pursuit I was in at
one point is not the right onefor me and I'm shifting myself
(18:04):
into more of the work that thelab is doing.
I think that's the joy of beingan entrepreneur, if you let it
be.
But also you got to trustyourself, you got to have good
people around.
You know all of that stuff.
Aliya Cheyanne (18:16):
I think that's really powerful.
I I'm also realizing from someof what you know, all of that
stuff.
I think that's really powerful.
I I'm also realizing from someof what you shared, I realized
I'm I'm in a stage that you werein maybe like eight plus years
ago.
Um, just like shifting out ofcertain workspaces and
environments and like shiftinginto a consulting space.
(18:37):
Because I did start a consultingbusiness too, like in about
four years now, and I wasconsulting in communications and
I was doing that for maybeabout two years and I was like I
don't know if I want tocontinue doing this, like I am
going to put the application in,I am going to go get Bob.
(19:00):
And I did that and I would sayalmost immediately I was like
yeah, no.
And I was like no, and yeah,yeah.
And I'm grateful that I youknow, obviously still have the
(19:20):
business that I created.
I can continue to build on it.
I can continue to pivot andgrow and do additional things.
That I want to security when itcomes to work, because you can
have some degree of securitywith a job to the extent that
(19:44):
the job keeps your role.
At any given moment the job candecide to let you go.
But I understand the degree ofsecurity with that, but it's a
different beast chasing securitywith entrepreneurship because
it ebbs and flows and it comesin waves.
You really do have to lean onyour community.
You really do have to humbleyourself and get comfortable
(20:06):
with asking for help andsometimes it's over.
Yeah, like it's not alwayscomfortable.
Like it's not alwayscomfortable.
So it's really interesting.
But and I've also learned thatthere's no pride in asking for
what you need Like I'm leaningon my community heavier than
(20:28):
I've ever like tried to lean onthem.
Or like just you know showing upfor me in ways that I need and
pursuing all the grants.
Like you're pursuing the grantsand just you know doing my own
due diligence about how I canraise money for what I want to
do and um, but also beinggrateful for people in my
(20:49):
community who are showing up forme in different ways, like even
this conversation between youand I and you know reaching out
to folks and them even giving methe time of day and saying yes
to, like you know, educate meand others who are interested in
pursuing their own path andcreating their own lane.
So there's just so much in thatand, yeah, thank you for
sharing and being vulnerableabout your journey and the
(21:11):
hardships, because it's it's notalways like, it's not always
easy, it's not always the funstuff Like it gets real hard and
they don't tell you that.
Jennifer Roberts (21:20):
They don't tell you that part.
I mean like, well, they do, butthey don't.
You know, like I don't knowthat, like I knew it was going
to be hard to financially keepmyself afloat.
I knew that, especially becauseof what I do, there would be
these ebbs and flows of money,and I'm still learning how to
(21:40):
deal with that.
Right, you learn a lot aboutyour financial health.
Doing being an entrepreneurlike, oh boy, like I have to get
my stuff together and I'm stillnot all the way together, like
I've had to get myself togetherand I'm working on that.
I think that you know.
On top of all of those things,though, what I think you learned
the most is what, if you letyourself, is what you really
(22:01):
want.
So, just like you said, youwent back and then realized nope
, nope, nope, this is not for me.
I have other women in ourcommunity who took time away
from a job, took some time to dowhat they wanted to do on their
entrepreneurial journey, andthen really did decide like, hey
, no, I do want the particulartype of security that comes with
a job, but I know I'm not goingback for anything less than
(22:25):
this, this or this.
It needs to be this type ofperson that I'm working with,
this type of space.
And so they went back into theworkforce with a different
mindset about what they werewilling to accept willing to put
themselves through and so, yeah, they are happy in the space
they are in now.
They would be just as happy ifthey weren't in it and they were
doing their own thing too.
And now they know that, like Ihave both, like you said, I know
(22:46):
I have this that I can go backto, and to me that's the part of
the space I'm creating, or thespace I see other women creating
for Black women to dream biggerand dream more out loud.
That's the space that I feellike we're offering Choices.
You should have a choice, youshould get to have a choice, and
(23:08):
it shouldn't be hard for you tobe able to exercise that choice
that you dreamed up.
We should be able to find youthe community, the space, the
resources for you to be able toat least try it and then decide
like nope, that ain't what Iwant, or yep, that is what I
want, or I want some version ofthis, let me play some more.
And that is the space that Ihope to provide and the example
that I hope not just for me,like from all the other women
(23:29):
who are in our space theexamples of what it looks like
to do that type of playing withyour life until you find the
free space that feels right foryou, whether that's a nine to
five job or whether it'sbecoming an entrepreneur, and
for me and many other peoplearound me, entrepreneurship is
the right choice.
For us and other people won'tbe, and that's okay.
Aliya Cheyanne (23:49):
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
Like just that terminology oflike finding the space to play
and see what works for you.
That's so important.
Like finding the space to playand see what works for you,
that's so important.
Because when I took my firstcareer break, that was we're
both at together and I knewafter leaving that job that I
was like, yeah, I need, I needsomething different.
(24:12):
Like I need to decompress fromthe experience I had first and
foremost and these are going tobe some of my non-negotiables
entering the workforce again.
Like there's no way I can dealwith certain environments,
certain types of leadership,like all of these things like
(24:34):
cares, what matters, andbenefits too, because I'm also
like I've had good benefits injobs and I've had bad benefits
at jobs and I'm just like,listen, these are the types of
things I'm also like I've hadgood benefits and jobs and I've
had bad benefits and jobs andI'm just like listen these are
the types of things I'mtolerating, these are the things
that I'm not.
So I think just having thatclarity and being able to in my
case, I've teetered between bothover the last like several
years but just being clear onwhat I need and what I want, and
(24:56):
having the space and thecapacity to do it, because there
are a lot of people who want todo it and they don't have the
space to play, they don't havethe space to dream.
It's just focusing on how am Igoing to pay this next bill or
get this next meal on the table,yeah, there's no space to even
play or dream.
So even recognizing theprivilege and the ability to be
(25:18):
able to do that, or making thechoice that, all else be damned,
I'm going to do it anyway, it'sso important.
So I feel like you might'veanswered this without me asking
directly, but I would love tojust get a firm answer of what
you feel like is it's kind ofrewarding thing about the work
(25:42):
that you do.
Like I know creating the spacefor yourself and other women is
rewarding, but like in yourheart of hearts, like when you
think about your purpose, yourmission, like why you did all of
this.
Like what feels good in yourbody and your mind and your
heart as you do this work eachday.
Like what is the most rewardingthing to you that you can think
(26:03):
of.
Jennifer Roberts (26:05):
I think I have two, because I have one that's
like rewarding because of me,like the work I've done, but
then there's like for myself, myinternal work, but then there's
parts of it that are rewardingbecause of what I see other
people getting to experience.
So, like I, the most rewardingthing, I think for me is that
and I want to say it might'vebeen Ashante that said this to
(26:26):
me she was like this lab is notjust for other people, like this
lab is for you too, and I feellike that is what I have been
able to experience is my abilityto dream bigger, my ability to
just trust and really lean intothe things that feel good to me
(26:46):
and create more, and so I thinkthat has been the joy of what
I've been able to do is justcome up with ideas and watch
them happen and trust myselfthat they can, that I can do
them.
Um, that has been probably theone of the most rewarding things
as of late for me.
But then, um, I just anytime Ihear a woman who has been in our
(27:09):
space say that this space haschanged them, and I've been
hearing it a lot lately and I'mso grateful, like that is
probably the most rewardingthing outside is that this space
changed me, or this space hasme dreaming more.
Those types of compliments are,you know, like?
Those are the things that makeme tear up.
Those are the things that makeme like, nope, you can't go back
(27:31):
to a regular job.
Are the things that are like no, no, no, like we're.
We have to keep going becausepeople are operating differently
, because they found themselvesin the space with, with the
women that come in, come in here, like they they have, they have
(27:52):
found their way here and it hasallowed them to just see
something so different for theirlives and to watch it happen in
different ways throughdifferent women, like that has
probably been.
Aliya Cheyanne (28:04):
I'm just grateful to be able to do it
yeah, I feel like so only gottento experience like one
in-person experience because ofthe retreat last year, but I see
so much of the spaces thatyou're cultivating for women,
like I know you just had a likea really fun um listening party
for Cowboy Carter and it wasreally nice to see.
(28:25):
I know I know that blip of areel is only like a clip of just
the joy and fun that was in theroom, but even just watching
that I'm just like damn.
Like look, look at communityLike room.
But even just watching that,I'm just like damn.
Like look look at community,like this is so nice, like how
fun would it have been to bethere and like join you all, and
I even think about even thatone time at that retreat.
(28:49):
Just the oh my gosh, myemergency alert is going on
because of the earthquake.
That's so embarrassing.
Jennifer Roberts (28:55):
Sorry, no it's not embarrassing.
Aliya Cheyanne (28:58):
At least you're working now that earthquake was
like before we even got on to dothis like, like, what is going
on?
No, you are so late, I wouldhave already been buried beneath
the rubble.
Jennifer Roberts (29:12):
At this point, I'm not ready for the
apocalypse.
We are not ready listen.
Aliya Cheyanne (29:19):
I'm not ready at all.
I say all the time.
I love certain shows that are,like you know, apocalypse,
zombie, like I'll watch thatstuff.
But in my reality I say all thetime, listen, just lay me down,
cause I'm not fighting withy'all over food.
I'm not like, I'm okay, take meto my ancestors, I'm out.
(29:43):
Like, take me to the, to theancestral plane, I'm good.
Um, that's not.
I'm like I don't even feel thefirst.
I don't even feel feeling whathappened.
Okay, about the aftershocks,anyway, but I was saying, even
thinking back to the retreat andjust the space that you
(30:05):
cultivated for us, we'd workshopwith the flowers and creating
our own flowers and sage sticksthat we could burn, and just
even learning more about sagesticks that we could burn, and
just even learning more aboutherbal medicine, really, which
(30:28):
is deeply rooted to ourancestors.
I'm going to pull this alltogether.
But recently I went to NewOrleans and I went with my mom
and my sisters and I havecomplicated feelings around
visiting plantations, but it wasmy third time visiting a
plantation.
They have them out there.
They have Oak Alley, they havethe Laura Plantation and then
(30:49):
they have the Whitney Plantationand this time I went to the
Whitney because the Whitney ithonestly it does center the
lives of enslaved people morethan the others, whereas like
the other ones you go to, it'sall about the big house and the
owners and I'm like I don't carebro, like so interesting, it's
(31:10):
so interesting to me.
I feel conflicted, being onground like that, knowing the
history, but also finding peace.
It was a beautiful, peacefulday and they have these huge oak
trees everywhere and othertrees have been growing for
hundreds of years and I'm justlike I always think to myself
(31:33):
the things that the treeswitnessed and the things that
the trees know from that landand that ground.
I'm just like it's a verysurreal experience going.
But I remember the stories, likethere was a professor who did a
huge project to collect thenarratives and the stories of
people who worked the grounds byforce because they were
(31:55):
enslaved.
But there was one in particularand I don't even remember the
specific name, but this personwas retelling the story of how
they couldn't have access tomedicine or medication because
they didn't have money and itwasn't.
You know, they weren't able todo it because they were enslaved
people.
But they were talking aboutwhat they foraged from the land
(32:16):
around them, passed down fromgenerations, about what they
forage from the land around thempassed down from generations.
About what they knew would healwounds, what they knew would
help settle their stomachs, whatthey knew was good for pain,
and there's a foraging groupthat I'm a part of here in New
York City and I've gone on someforaging experiences with them
and learned more about plantmedicine and to bring it back to
(32:37):
the event last year with youand the workshop with the
flowers, just even learning moreabout just the herbal medicine
of the flowers and what theyrepresent, what they meant to
our ancestors, what they meanspiritually, is so important I
still have.
I never burned my stick.
Jennifer Roberts (32:53):
I still have it on my altar.
Aliya Cheyanne (32:56):
Yeah, but, and the beauty of having that
experience and being able tobring my grandmother who loves
gardening, who loves flowers,who loves that from a time she
recalls back home in Jamaicawith her own grandmother, and
how we keep these traditionsrich and alive and we create
space for each other to play andcall on things that our
ancestors knew and know and handdown to us in different ways, I
(33:21):
thought was so beautiful.
It's a memory and an experiencethat I keep with me.
So I say all that to say thatwhat you're doing has such a
huge purpose beyond you, biggerthan you.
The way that you're impactingpeople in your lives, the
memories that you're creating,the experiences that you're
creating, like their time, meana lot.
(33:42):
They go deep and they go backfurther than you know, because
there's so much that you canrecall, like when you have a
moment to play and to dream andto do these things and think
about what it signified forpeople in your past too.
So I'm just grateful for thework that you're doing, and I'm
(34:02):
not in the DMV area, but I seeit and I love it and I always
share it and it feels like homein many ways.
That was a very roundabout wayof saying it feels like home.
In many ways, like that was avery roundabout way of saying it
feels like home because itcalls on memories that I might
not remember firsthand but maybe, like my ancestors, might
remember.
So it feels very important andsignificant to me, um, and I can
(34:25):
call on those things when Ineed them.
So, yeah, that was a lot, yeah,thank you no, thank you so much
.
Jennifer Roberts (34:34):
Like you know that feels good, like if you're
using a metaphor like that, thatmeans home feels good to you.
And that is so important to mein this space is that people
know it feels good.
One of the things I've noticedrecently is that more people are
okay showing up by themselvesto things that I do and I don't
(34:56):
know about you, but I'm kind ofextroverted as I am, I have a
lot of social anxiety, so goingto something by myself takes a
whole lot of effort, and so thefact that I know that's probably
the case for a lot of peopleand they feel okay showing up by
themselves because they know Imight not know anybody there and
(35:17):
that's okay, because anybodythere is going to feel good,
like that is what I want, likeyou know, like that if no place
feels safe, you know you couldfeel safe here, and so the idea
of this place feeling like home,I really appreciate that, and I
do think that we're healing ourancestors when we do this type
of work.
I think we're healing ourselves,oh yeah, and I think that our
ancestors are happy and gladthat we are taking time to do
(35:40):
some of these things.
Like I still think about yourgrandmother and how much she lit
up, like doing all of theflowers and, like you know,
telling us what she rememberedor like what she knew, like all
her knowledge and I, when you'retalking about making memories,
like that was.
That is a core memory for me.
I'm not going to forget that,like her being there was really
(36:01):
important and I'm so glad thatshe was, and it was very
reminiscent of my owngrandmother, who was a master
gardener and like, really justbeautiful, always beautiful
flowers.
And so you know, I think you'reright, I think we're healing
our own children, we're healingour ancestors, we're doing all
of it and it feels good and italso just helps us not tolerate
(36:23):
the BS, like we're, just likewe're not going to allow that
type of feeling to infiltratewith so much.
After you can experiencefeelings like this.
And so, yeah, the communitypart is this Like the cheat code
is going to be being able toget to your friends on foot.
You know, like, how close areyou to your community, like can
(36:44):
you walk, Can you get to them?
Aliya Cheyanne (36:46):
Like you know that's going to really work.
Yeah, yeah, community I thinkabout all the things I've gone
to alone, like in the past,because either people weren't
available or interested, but Istill wanted to do it and I
showed up anyway and had a greattime and made great memories.
So I think a lot of people justeven me too, a lot of people are
(37:07):
just looking for community.
They're trying to find theirpeople in their tribe, if they
haven't already, or if they have, maybe trying to expand it, and
I think the more space existswhere people can find themselves
and see themselves and do that,the better it is.
So, yeah, okay, I feel like wewe talked about a lot of heavy
(37:27):
and deep stuff, but I would loveto know.
I would love to know, like I'veheard many entrepreneurs that,
like having a ritual, having aroutine, having self-care is so
important because it can be veryheavy and very hard.
So I'd love to know, like, whatkind of keeps you grounded in
(37:49):
this work that you do every day?
Like, what are some ways youtake care of yourself to be able
to give of yourself so much todo the work that you do?
Jennifer Roberts (37:59):
Yeah, so when I'm doing what I'm supposed to
be doing, dance is a ritual ofmine and I'm in the studio
taking dance classes and I havebeen a little out of it, out of
that habit for a bit and I'mlearning.
I'm kind of like discoveringwhy it's been harder for me to
go, and so I've been likejournaling about it and talking
(38:21):
to people about it.
I'm realizing that I knew, Ialways knew, dance was really
important to me and it's a veryimportant ritual, both for my
freedom practice but also myrest practice.
And you know, processing whenit isn't hitting the way it used
to, has been interesting for meto like process.
Why that is so?
But dance is normally a ritual,and then also I'm really into
(38:45):
music and so either just playingan album that I really love
from top to bottom and dancingaround in my house, or going to
a show from some of my favoriteartists I try to make time to do
those types of things.
And then in general I reallylove good food with good people,
(39:06):
and so a lot of my rituals dohave to deal with.
Some of them are alone, but alot of my rituals have to deal
with community, like I like tobe with people and so, because I
create community, sometimes myreset things are community where
I didn't have to do thecreating, where I just get to go
with the people who I know aregoing to charge me up and make
(39:26):
me feel good, so like a reallygood meal with like two or three
of my close girlfriends wherewe can just laugh and we're not
thinking about like we justtrying all the things.
and you know, that's kind ofsomething that I do pretty much
on a monthly basis just to likereset myself with my people so
those are like my communityrituals that I feel like are
(39:47):
important to me and then my likekind of solitude rituals are.
I do daydreaming.
I have a place near my, my inmy room that I like to sit in,
that has like I can see out thewindow and I'll just sit there
and I'll daydream a little bit,drink some tea, you know that
type of thing.
So those are kind of the thingsthat I do to reset myself and
(40:09):
I'm actually it's interestingyou ask that question because
I'm in a bit of a transitionright now.
So I'm actually trying out newrituals, like I'm trying to get
used to a new morning andevening ritual that's going to
work better for me.
I just got recently diagnosedwith ADHD, so I'm like also like
I have to get my routines inorder to get my routines in
(40:30):
order, and so this has been likea time of experimentation for
me, too, where I'm like, okay, Ihave to, I actually need to
decide some other rituals thatwill make me feel both good in
my body but also just have mymindset.
Aliya Cheyanne (40:45):
for the creativity I want Peace of mind.
Jennifer Roberts (40:46):
Yeah, so yeah.
Aliya Cheyanne (40:49):
I love my rituals, man.
Jennifer Roberts (40:50):
That's the freedom that you get from
entrepreneurship.
To do that if you let yourself.
I feel like that is a freedom.
I have gotten fromentrepreneurship.
I don't think I would have hadin the same way in my other
regular job and I value it a lot.
Aliya Cheyanne (41:05):
Oh yeah, I love all of those.
I'm more introverted.
I feel like I can be anambivert when I need to be, but
I'm definitely more introverted.
But I also love connecting withmy friends on a somewhat of a
basis or a schedule kind of.
So some people we have thingspenned on the calendars.
(41:26):
Others we just hit each otherup when we're missing each other
.
We want to do things, so I lovethat.
But also one of my solituderituals is giving myself the
space to daydream.
Like I also have a cozy spot inmy room where I drink my tea.
That's by a window, so I lovethat.
(41:59):
One of my one of my best friendsalso um struggle in deficit
disorder, um, adhd or ADD, andI'm noticing also that a lot of
black women are gettingdiagnosed with things so much
later in life because certainthings show up differently for
us.
So there's like a wave withwomen getting um diagnosed with
ADD or ADHD, but also likelearning they're on the spectrum
of autism and like so manythings because it shows up
differently for us.
(42:21):
Or you know, we're learningthat AD shows up differently for
us than it typically does foryou know other people.
So it's just very interestingthat so many of us are learning
new aspects of ourselves laterin in life when it could have
been helpful to know sooner, sothat you don't think like
(42:41):
something's wrong with you, youdon't think you're great.
You know like you could have.
So many of us could havelearned to manage and navigate
life differently had we knownsooner.
You know Absolutely.
So definitely.
I'm sending you love and careon your support with and support
(43:02):
on your journey with that, asyou're learning more about it
and how to like reshape yourlife, basically to hold space
for these aspects of yourselfand how it shows up in life and
work and everything else.
So, yeah, that's reallyinteresting.
Thank you for sharing that aswell.
Oh, thank you.
Yeah, of course.
Yeah, I don't know.
(43:25):
I feel like I don't know.
This has just been really great, but I really have enjoyed this
with you, like you're, yeah,sharing so much wisdom and I
think that's been reallypowerful.
But something that I findinteresting is the way that
different people think aboutlegacy.
(43:46):
For some people, that lookslike the work they're doing.
For some people, that lookslike, looks like you know
parenthood and their children.
For some people, that lookstotally different.
Jennifer Roberts (43:58):
So I would love to know what you think
about legacy and more about thelegacy you're building um and
what that looks like to you yeah, I think about legacy twofold,
like and I guess this is just mymy philosophy on almost
everything is like both, and youknow, small and big, very
(44:21):
fractal, like thinking so, um,on the like, my immediate space.
When I think about legacy, likeI have a daughter, I am
constantly thinking about whatlife is going to look like for
her and how I leave.
I don't know that I personally,though I think I'm putting
things into the world that aregood.
I don't know that I personallycan make this world any better
(44:43):
for her, but I do hope that I amshowing her some ways to
navigate it better, right, tonavigate it better than I did,
to navigate it better than hergrandmother did and her great
grandmother before that.
Right, and I hope that I'mshowing her like ways to live
freely, to make her own choices,to stand up for herself, in the
(45:05):
way that I'm doing that myself,not because I'm always telling
her, but because she literallysees me do it.
Like she said, she's seeing merest and she's seeing me take
time for myself, like I want tobe a model in that way, because
I really think I hope my legacyis like starting to be one of
the people in my lineage thatsays that rest is ours for the
(45:27):
taking and that dreaming is whatwe do.
And so I think that that's whatI hope I'm offering to her,
that I hope that makes easierfor her children and her
children after that andeverything.
And then on the communal side ofthings, I think I'm doing and
trying to do that same work incommunity with Black women
(45:47):
through the lab, so that we canhave the same thing that people
just have these examples thatthey can see of what it looks
like to be and live freely, andthat it looks a lot of different
ways, you know.
And so I think I hope my legacyis that people look back and say
, like that person or that spaceor people who were in that
(46:09):
space taught me how to be moreexpansive in what I believe was
possible for myself.
And so, yeah, I think I look atlegacy both for my family and
then as a community as a whole.
And so I don't know thatanything I do is going to be big
enough for it to be rememberedor go down in history.
But I do know that energypermeates and it doesn't go away
(46:33):
, and so I hope I'm putting theright the energy that will keep
these feelings of freedom andthis ability to want and desire
it in the folks who have been inmy orbit's lineages for forever
, until we don't exist anymore.
Aliya Cheyanne (46:52):
Yeah.
You know, that's so big, jen,that's beautiful and that's so
big, like, on the one hand, onthe one hand, to say, like you
know how to print, this workmight leave, and then, on the
other hand, to say, like I'mimpacting, I want to impact
lineages like that.
That's big and I think that'sexactly what you're doing Like
(47:14):
whether you notice it or not,you're planting big seeds.
Jennifer Roberts (47:16):
You're planting big seeds, thank you,
and you know, I think, the waythat I make myself not feel the
way, that the reason why I waslike, oh, this doesn't feel like
I'm going to leave, I guess,when I think about doing
something like monumental, likesomething that might end up
being in a history book orshowing up, like I don't see
myself doing anything like that,you know.
(47:37):
But I think it feels lessdaunting because I'm just doing
my part with the locus ofcontrol I have, and that's the
part that I think we all coulddo, like we all can do more
within the locus of control wehave, and we don't always use
that, and so I think it feelsless daunting because I feel
(47:57):
like I do have a good communityand I do feel like they trust me
, and so within this very smalllocus of control, I think I can
do a lot to change mindsets,right, and so I'm going to just
do that.
And I know those people gottheir own locus of control, that
then they can change something,and I'm going to just trust
that they will.
I'm going to just do my part inthis so that the pressure is
(48:18):
off.
I'm having fun with it.
If we impact a thousand people,great, but guess what?
These 10 people that are righthere?
I know they're different, andso I'm going to just go ahead
and play with that.
So I think that that is what Itry to focus on more, and that
really came from doing all thisracial equity work.
I had to let go of the ideathat I might not ever see what
(48:42):
I'm dreaming of in my lifetime,but I do know that there are
some very small microcosms ofpeople who operate differently
because we made something reallygreat together.
Differently because we madesomething really great together.
Aliya Cheyanne (48:54):
Yeah, and I love that.
I wish I still had this exactquote in front of me.
But I saw something the otherday and I don't remember where,
if it was Instagram or TikTok,but the person was basically
doing the math and saying, likeit took this many ancestors to
make you and it was like, over,however, you got to this now,
over 240 something or 250something ancestors to make just
(49:19):
me.
When you think about all thesets of parents that had to come
together to make me, to make myparents, to make my
grandparents, to make my greatgrandparents, to make my great,
great and I, when I say you'replanting seeds is, even if your
name or color girls liberationlab doesn't go down in a history
(49:40):
book, you're planting a seed.
Now that, many generationslater, when, when we're not here
anymore, someone is, I have thespace to rest and I have the
space to dream, because myancestor did that and they
planted that seed going down andI think that's so beautiful and
(50:02):
I think that's just morepowerful than you know.
So you're not going to feel allof it now and in this lifetime
you're making a huge differencefor lifetimes to come and I love
that if there was one piece ofadvice, or if there was
something you wish.
You knew when you first started, that you think would benefit
(50:35):
another entrepreneur who'sstarting out now.
If you have any tidbits of justadvice or wisdom you'd like to
share, I'd love for you to sharethat with our audience.
Jennifer Roberts (50:46):
I think, get the right people around you.
Whatever the right people areyou, whatever the right people
are and people you can bevulnerable with, people you can
ask for help from or who canfind you help, even if they
can't give it to you, but thatyou can ask and say that you
need help from.
I think those are the people.
(51:08):
That is what I wish I wouldhave done more of in the
beginning and that I'm glad Ihave now.
And I say that because there'sso many times where either we
think we're by ourselves in abusiness mistake or a business
venture and we're not byourselves.
There are other people eitherstruggling through the same
thing or who have overcome thesame thing, and as soon as we
(51:31):
open our mouths and ask for help, we usually find out we're not
alone, and then we can get aboutthe business of figuring out
how to fix it.
And so I just wish I had toldmore people earlier things that
I was struggling with and foundthe right kind of crew of people
to have around me that couldhelp remind me of things that I
(51:53):
had promised myself I would do,and then also that I could be
vulnerable with and ask for helpfrom.
I do think I have that now andit's making a big difference,
and so that's why I wish inthose first few years of
business I had done that.
I don't know if I had as manyexamples to look at, and I feel
like I have way more now, and so, yeah, that would be my advice
(52:16):
A good core group of people thatyou can trust and be vulnerable
with and ask for help from.
Aliya Cheyanne (52:22):
I love it.
Jen, I just thank you so muchfor taking some time to chat
with me and the audience andshare more about your journey
and your work.
I really appreciate it.
This has been really dope andyou're so knowledgeable and so
wise and this is just reallygreat.
So thank you so much for comingon here.
Jennifer Roberts (52:39):
I had such a good time.
I appreciate you asking me allthese good questions, so thank
you.
Aliya Cheyanne (52:46):
That makes me happy here too, so let the
people know where to find you.
Jennifer Roberts (52:54):
You can find out more about colored girls
liberation lab at colored girlslaborg on the web or colored
girls lab on Instagram.
If you're interested inbecoming a member, you can find
that out on our website or go tocommunitycoloredgirlslaborg.
So all of those places arewhere you can find out what's
(53:16):
going on with us.
Aliya Cheyanne (53:18):
That I link that in the show notes as well, so
it's easy for everyone.
And thank you again.
This is great.
Thank you, I had a great time.
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