Play Therapy, Doodle Noodles & Rebellious Evolution with Rebels Evolve Founder, Malia Segal | Ep. 85

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Every once in a while, a conversation comes along that gently unravels the tight knots we've tied around our own healing. My chat with Malia Segal, licensed clinical social worker and founder of Rebellious Evolution and Doodle Noodles Notebooks, was exactly that kind of transformative dialogue.

Malia brings a refreshingly subversive approach to mental health, challenging both the external "shoulds" that society imposes and the harsh internal voices we've internalized. As she eloquently puts it, "Why be your own enemy when you can be your own cheerleader?" Through her work with both children and adults, she demonstrates how healing doesn't have to follow prescribed paths we've been taught, and that healing looks different for everyone.

Ready to embrace your own rebellious evolution? Visit rebelsevolve.com or find Doodle Noodles Notebooks on Etsy. Whether you're seeking empowerment coaching or simply permission to color outside the lines of conventional healing, this conversation reminds us that sometimes the most powerful act of self-care is gentle rebellion. Follow Malia (@thrilla.in.malia), @doodlenoodlenotebooks and @rebels.evolve on IG.

Episode Resources:

• Learn more about EMDR at emdria.org 

Related Episodes:

• Retiring Superwoman: Breaking the Chains of Perfectionism ft. Aseanté Renee [REPLAY]
• Reigniting Your Creative Spark After Burnout | Ep. 71 [Malia/Doodle Noodles Mention]
• Back from Hiatus: Adventures, Reflections and Future Plans | Ep. 11 [My Unruly Retreat Experience Recap]

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Hosted by Buzzsprout. See the
joined by Malia Siegel.
Hi, malia, how are you?
Hi, how are you Good?
I'm so excited to have you onthe show.
I was just telling Malia that Iwanted to have her on the show.
I've wanted to have you on theshow for a while and I'm so

(00:22):
excited that it's finally time.
So here we are.

Malia Segal (00:24):
Yes, yes, I'm excited and I feel honored and
just like a nice feeling to belike inquired about, like let's
talk about you, because you know, talking about oneself can
sometimes, you know, have aflair or an attitude about it,
and I'm like but I like talkingto other people about what is

(00:46):
inspiring to them as well aswhat's inspiring to me.
So I am excited and happy toparticipate.

Aliya Cheyanne (00:52):
Yeah, that's so beautiful.
Thank you for sharing that.
So I always like to share withfolks how I've met a guest on
the show or how I know of theirwork, and I had the honor of
meeting Malia a couple years agoat Sheila Marie's 2023 Unruly
Retreat in Jamaica.
Malia was a support system forthat retreat.

(01:14):
She is a licensed clinicalsocial worker and she was there
to support all of the women whowere attending the retreat.
You may not know this, but oneof my fondest memories of you is
that retreat.
I am more of an introvertedgirly.

Malia Segal (01:33):
So as am.

Aliya Cheyanne (01:33):
I, yeah, yeah, like that retreat was really
wonderful in a lot of ways andat the same time, as someone who
was a little bit moreintroverted, it was a little
overstimulating sometimes for me.
And I remember there was onenight in particular it was like
the bonfire night and I was justfeeling kind of like really out

(01:54):
of place and like really justlike not the comfiest, and
whether or not you like knewthat intuitively, or maybe you
just saw it you just offeredlike a really comforting, um,
kind of shoulder pat and rub,like while we were getting ready
for like a group photo and thatlike made me melt in a lot of

(02:15):
ways, but it made me feel reallyseen and comforted in that
moment and that is like one ofthe fondest memories I have of
you, and then we'll talk aboutdoodle noodles later.
But I got a copy, my own copy,of that and it's just really
wonderful for me in my officewhen I'm working, when I need
just a creative break to coloror to jot a quick note down or

(02:36):
to like scribble and doodle, andlike all these things.

Malia Segal (02:40):
So I'm literally using it right now because this
is how I regulate my ownattention, so I love that you're
getting good use of it.
Yes, people will forget whatyou did, but they will never

(03:03):
forget how you made them feel,and I think that experience that
you just shared is like theembodiment of that.

Aliya Cheyanne (03:13):
I'm like, yes, that's what I want most people
to feel when I am in theirpresence is like melty, like
seen comforted, taken care of,so I'm happy that I was able to
offer that to you.
Yes, you were, and it waswonderful.
So that's a little bit abouthow I know of your work, how I
met you, how I got to see you injust brilliant action during
that retreat, and I would loveto kick it over to you to share

(03:35):
a little bit more about who youare in the world today and how
you like to be known.

Malia Segal (03:40):
Yes, so I mean Malia is my name and so I'm like
that's what I want to be knownas out in the world is Malia,
and a creative solver ofproblems, creative thinker and
just like a bright lightresource for people in the world
.
That's how I would like to beknown.

Aliya Cheyanne (04:02):
That's how I would like to be known, and I
feel like you're doing that andexecuting that beautifully.
So thank you for being you yesthank you, core.

(04:25):
Your onset, your initial work,is rebellious evolution and I
want to talk about everything.
So I mentioned that you're atherapist, you're a creative,
you're the founder of rebelliousevolution and doodle noodles.
So I would love to hear, like,what inspired you to kind of
bring forth these aspects ofyourself, these parts of you,
and how they show up and supportyour work.

Malia Segal (04:43):
Yeah, so rebellious evolution was born out of my
own evolution as I grew from myrole as solely a children's
therapist.
I started my career as a schoolsocial worker, primarily with a
focus on children from the agesof like 5 to 17 or so, and as

(05:03):
my practice evolved and my skillset evolved that's a common
theme, this word evolutionevolved.
I was like, oh, I think I'mmore than just a children's
therapist or more than a playtherapist, and so I made this
shift over to institutingrebellious evolution as like an
identifier of where I felt likeI was and hopefully that those

(05:28):
words would stand out to people,that those words would resonate
with some part of them, thatthey recognize that they're
evolving.
And the rebellious part, whichyou noted in one of your
questions, was like it doesn'thave to be a certain way.
Like I identify as a subversive, quietly subversive, Like I'm

(05:51):
not always like rufflingfeathers in a very out there way
, but when I hear somethingthat's either an extremism or a
platitude, I'm like I getcurious.
I'm like why does it have to bethat way?
My nature I'm just.
I think I, yeah contrarian, andso when I was trying to think of
like a business name, I waslike looking up, like words that

(06:13):
meant like going against, orlike just something that really
spoke to how I felt andrebellious kept coming up and I
was like, yeah, I think that'swhat it is.
I think it's going to berebellious evolution.
So, and I think it wassomething that, as I became more
regulated in my practice as atherapist and just noticing my

(06:35):
own diverse and broad interests,that, yes, I'm a therapist but,
like you said, like I'm acreative, I do different things.
I'm like always doing differentthings.
That I'm like, oh yeah, Iforgot, I did that.
Like yesterday, I like I Legreecertified a fitness instructor
and we were doing pictures forthat, and so I was like oh yeah,
you teach at a Pilates studioand I'm like, yeah, I guess I do

(06:56):
, like I forget that I can bemore than just quote, unquote a
therapist.
Yeah, so that's a little bitabout me and Rebellious
Evolution and how that came tobe.

Aliya Cheyanne (07:09):
Yes, that's really powerful and like just
duality, like what's coming tomind is that saying that like we
contain multitudes, like we'renever just one thing, and I love
that you've used this name andthis brand to really fully
express different aspects ofyourself and that you can show
up fully and do different things, because I feel like when we

(07:29):
stand in that ourselves, it alsogives other people permission
to stand in that for themselvestoo.
Yes, I think that's really cooland really powerful.
Thank you for sharing.
So I would love to talk alittle bit about the healing
component of that, becauseyou've expressed so beautifully
what rebellious evolution meantand means to you.

(07:50):
Clearly, self-care, taking careof yourself, your body and
supporting others and doing thatis important to you too as a
Pilates instructor, as atherapist, with your practice,
and creating outlets for youngpeople and adults to just
process and regulate andnavigate their emotions.
In the context of healing.

(08:12):
What does rebellion look liketo you?
Like what is a rebellious wayof healing?

Malia Segal (08:20):
I think that it's, to your point, about, like,
duality and multitudes.
It's like sometimes you'rereflecting outward and thinking
about rebelling against theexternal, so what others may
tell you.
This is the way to heal.
I think therapy is an avenueand I found great success in it,
both as a client and apractitioner.
But I know people who surf,ride motorcycles, walk dogs,

(08:44):
like compete in athletics.
Right, there's a lot ofdifferent ways that you can find
a multisensory avenue toregulate your nervous system,
whether you recognize it or not.
But I think there's a lot ofdynamic ways that people can do
that.
And then I also thinkrebellious against, like the
internal.
So I think many of us have aninternal voice that's maybe not

(09:07):
the kindest voice, that's likeyou should do this and you
should do that.
Oh, you can watch the show afteryou do the laundry and working.
I've done a lot of work withboth EMDR, which is the

(09:28):
bilateral stimulation for audioand visual, but we've also done
internal family systems and thatwas a big like opening of the
mind for me of like, yeah,there's these voices, not that
I'm, you know, clinicallyadmitted anywhere voices, but
like voices that have just beenlike rooted in us, of like this
is how you talk to yourself toget to motivate yourself, and
sometimes I'm like this voice isnot very nice.

Aliya Cheyanne (09:51):
And it's hard sometimes.

Malia Segal (09:52):
Yes, yeah, it can be very cruel and judgy.
I have these.
My colleague has these cardsthat are called interactive
cards and they're just faces andlike poses and expressions.
And there's one that's like anangry woman that looks like
she's like judge Judy.
So I call it like judge Judybut like, yeah, rebelling

(10:13):
against those voices that arelike being cruel to yourself.
It's like we get enough of thatsometimes from out there.
I'm like might as well be kindto myself on the inside.
So making space for somepositive self-talk and you know
self-compassion and being likeyou know what you get to watch,
whatever you want to watch rightnow, and if the laundry gets

(10:33):
done, great.
If not, it's okay, you're notgoing to get in trouble.
I have some like my go-tointernal lines are like you're
not getting graded on this,you're not going to get in
trouble, you're not on anyone'stimeline but your own Cause I
rushing was a big part of.

(10:54):
I feel like I was just likerushing, rush, rush, rush, rush,
rush, rush.
And it's like when I took thatbeat and said to myself, like
it's okay, you like, and it'sokay if you're late on time,
like my timing is always defined.

Aliya Cheyanne (11:04):
Yeah, yes.

Malia Segal (11:13):
So I think the rebellious part comes from, yeah
, like the external, what theshoulds are out in the world,
and then internal, which is liketalking back to some of those
voices that may have just beenhanging around a long time.
Yeah, Just like hey, take abeat Chill.

Aliya Cheyanne (11:24):
Yeah, yeah, that's really powerful.
love that and I think that's sospecial, like even you, modeling
how you speak to yourself incertain moments is so important,
because it's I mean, I don'tknow if this is like the
accurate comparison, but it kindof reminds me of like gentle
parenting, because a lot of usdid not experience that growing

(11:45):
up so now we're going throughthese processes of like
quote-unquote, reparentingourselves and having to take a
more gentle approach andactually speaking to ourselves
more kindly, to like combat thatinner critic and that inner
voice and like maybe what wewere used to when we were much
younger, so even just speakingmore softly and more kindly to

(12:07):
yourself in those moments, andthat, right on time one is
really important, because I feellike so many of us are rushing,
guilty of that, like theimpatience, the rushing, like
just not being able to just moveslow.

Malia Segal (12:21):
It's like no one else is asking for that.

Aliya Cheyanne (12:23):
It's like why?

Malia Segal (12:25):
why am I doing this to myself Like it's okay, it's
okay, so like slowing down issuch a powerful tool?

Aliya Cheyanne (12:36):
Yeah.

Malia Segal (12:37):
And even if it's only by like 10 or 20%, I think
if something among whatever youknow where our conversation goes
today like something listenerslike just slowing down a little
bit, being like I'm going togive myself four extra minutes
and so if I'm there at 10.02versus whatever, like yes, okay,

(12:58):
and how does that feel in yourbody to know that, okay, I can
wash my hair, I don't have tobrush my teeth like I am, you
know, in a NASCAR race?
Yeah, there's stuff like that.
That I'm like when I zoom outand look at myself and, like you
said, gentle parenting, it islike this thing of like noticing
, like can I talk to myself likeI would a child client, which

(13:20):
would be very gentle, and hey,man, you good, you really you're
really going fast and I'm notsure why.
Like talking to myself that wayis like, like you said, like
what we maybe didn't get growingup, and that we're like going
back and like repatterning thataspect, aspect.

(13:46):
It's like why would everyoneelse deserve it except you?
I'm like no, I want to talk tomyself like a little kid who's
still trying to figure somestuff out.
I'm not going to be harsh, I'mnot going to be cruel.

Aliya Cheyanne (13:52):
Yeah, there's so much power in that too, and
also a big fan of EMDR.

Malia Segal (14:00):
Yes, yeah, yeah, I would definitely recommend it
for people who are, yeah, like,maybe stuck in the therapy
process.
I think one of you knowsomething that you did mention
in your questions.
Of exploration is like, forpeople who are stuck or feeling
like their foot is jammed onthat gas pedal, so to speak,

(14:20):
like EMDR could be the thingthat like eases up that and it's
just bilateral simulation with,like, obviously, the coaching
and guidance of a, you know,licensed practitioner.
And you know, when I talked tomy therapist about, like, what I
get up to and what I'm doing,like she's like, oh, you did

(14:40):
EMDR yourself by going for thatwalk and like swinging your arms
and looking at the trees anddoing this, I'm like, oh, yeah,
you're right Like I am takingcare of myself in these other
ways.
So I would definitely, for yourlisteners who are curious,
definitely look up.
I think EMDRIAorg is the websiteas many of my identities.

(15:02):
One is like a resource giverand a problem solver, so I'm
like I want to give as manyresources to people as possible.
So there's another one.

Aliya Cheyanne (15:12):
Yes, thank you, and any that you share I will
make sure are linked in the shownotes for folks for ease too,
so cool yeah, awesome.
Yeah, thank you for putting thison.
Okay, so I want to talk alittle bit more about the
creative side combined withmental health.
You've already given so manytools and resources and examples

(15:33):
of what that looks like, but Ireally do think that creativity
is a modality for healing.
It is an aspect of healing too,and I would love to know, like,
what role you believe creativeexpression plays in our healing
process, but particularly for,you know, women and femmes who
is largely my audience who aretrying to like, reclaim their

(15:56):
voice, their power, theirautonomy, things like that.

Malia Segal (16:00):
Yeah, so one simple way like I said, I've been
doodling since we've beentalking is the use of color,
like, just like the creative.
It's a simple thing.
In the midst of dysregulationyou might benefit from just like
picking up a colored utensil, apen or a marker on a white
piece of paper and, just likeyou were saying, scrib,

(16:22):
scribbling which is like part ofwhy I like doodle noodles is
like there's things that you cancolor in, yeah, and if you want
to add something to it, like aflare or something like that,
you can do that.
So color is a really helpfulway to regulate because it
grounds you.
I think in like the family ofdT therapy, like using the five

(16:44):
senses.
So color also throwback.
I don't know if you remember theMr Sketch markers that have
like the smelly.
So this is like a dual processbecause not only you see the
color, but then you know I havepeople like oh, what does this
one smell like to you?
Is it like a thumbs up, athumbs down?
So yeah, just even using color,even paint, right, like it may

(17:05):
not smell like fruity chemicals,like the Mr Sketch markers, but
like inhaling the smell of likethose kinds of things like
grounds you because you're now,you're paying attention to
something that's in yourimmediate awareness, as opposed
to like ruminating on something.
So, yeah, I think there'sdefinitely like a really
beautiful cross-section ofcreative expression and mental

(17:29):
health, like wellness, strivingtowards, you know.
Coming back to regulation,because you're always going to
be like faced with situationsthat are going to cause
dysregulation that's part ofbeing a human being.
But resilience is like yourcapacity to like just revert
back to like I'm safe, I'mgrounded, I'm okay.
So I think art and yeah, just,and even it doesn't have to be

(17:52):
good.
I think a lot of people think,like I wouldn't, I identify as
an artist because I createthings.
I don't necessarily I'm notlike oh, wow, I'm like so good
at it.
I'm just like I do it, sotherefore I'm like, so good at
it.
I'm just like I do it, sotherefore I am an artist.
Like it doesn't have to beanything.
I've seen some crazy things.
I still remember this is likelast year I went to the Met and

(18:16):
one of the art pieces was apiece of cheese with like hair
sticking out of it, and I'm like, if you can make that art, and
that's art and you are an artist, then I can make my little
scribble scrabbles and be anartist too.

Aliya Cheyanne (18:30):
Yeah.

Malia Segal (18:31):
You know, yeah.
So making something makes youan artist.
I don't care if it's good, bad,ugly, beautiful, you are an
artist.

Aliya Cheyanne (18:40):
Yeah, I create, therefore I am.
I really love that, that and Ithink, that's so true.
There's like this.
There's been this I don't knowif it's an uptick or just more
exposure because of platformslike tiktok and elsewhere, but
so many people are coloring andcreating coloring books and like
coloring online for otherpeople to watch and encouraging

(19:01):
people to get caught.
You know like it's I'm seeing somany more people do do that as
a way to regulate and just playand be creative, which I think
is really beautiful.
And my sister, tasia, is anartist like.
She does art and she doescreate, but she also talks about
how we're all artists like haveyou seen some of the pieces of

(19:22):
art.
I'm like a mirror that says youis art.

Malia Segal (19:26):
You're like okay.

Aliya Cheyanne (19:28):
I guess go on.
Yeah, and it's so crazy to me.
I just I have to, because I waslooking at something the other
day and it was showing piecesand it was asking the audience
to guess, like the value of thework.
And everybody guessed too lowand too wrong.
But there was one piece inparticular that was literally
two like metal, rings like twocircles just up on a blank

(19:52):
canvas and it had the ranges forhow much it was worth and, like
most people, voted for thelowest amount.
And the two rings on the blankpiece of canvas was like a
hundred thousand dollars andcanvas was like $150,000.
And I was like.
You know I'm in the wrong field.

Malia Segal (20:07):
Right right, yeah, you need to just jump in and be
like this is what it is andyou're going to pay.
And it's like I think there'sone of those axioms that are
like you're not paying for this,you're paying for my years of
experience and knowledge andtraining, and blah, blah, blah,
and I'm like, okay, I see thatwith art, like welding two metal
rings together, probably Icouldn't do it right now, not

(20:30):
that I'm aware of.
So, yeah, you're not justpaying for two metal rings,
you're paying for someone who'slike you know what I would like
to do and what I'm going to go.
I'm going to go scrap andsource the metal and I'm going
to intertwine them, so they cannever be undone that's what, yes
, that's what the investment is,I suppose, and maybe it speaks
to someone.

(20:51):
That's why, I mean, I guessthat's why people make art right
, it's like in the hopes thatit'll speak to someone somewhere
.

Aliya Cheyanne (20:56):
Yeah, you know yeah someone somewhere, someone
afford a gallery like that, butI was just like.
You know, we are all artists.
We truly are, yes.

Malia Segal (21:10):
Yeah, that's what I mean.
Again, I think working I meanboth with kids and adults.
It's interesting like theself-talk around creating it can
be so negative, like oh, I'mnot good at this.
And again, something for theaudience to think about is like
can you add in, I'm not good atthis yet, or I'm still learning.
Why would I be good atsomething that I've just you
know kids, I'm like you're seven, of course you're not good at

(21:34):
it, You're just you.
You have only been speaking andholding fine motor tools for
three and a half years.
Why would you be good at that?
You're learning.
It should be fun, like let'slet's have some fun in the
learning of it and not be sofocused on like it has to be
perfect.
I mean that's.
I think a struggle that I hadfor a long time was like, oh,

(21:54):
things need to be perfect beforethey can be out in the world.
And I think doodle noodles waslike a good exercise for me to
be like it doesn't need to beperfect, it just needs to be out
in the world, and that would.
That was this the dialogue thatI was having with adult malia
and inner child malia yeah, itdoesn't need to be perfect, you
just need to get it out into theworld.

Aliya Cheyanne (22:14):
Someone, somewhere, will benefit from
this creation yes, one thousandpercent, and I definitely am one
of the people who havebenefited from the creation.
So thank you for putting it outinto the world.
Yeah, of course, and we'll alsomake sure a link to Doodle
Noodles is in there.
Yes, I'll put it so it's onEtsy if people are interested.

Malia Segal (22:43):
I think people have commented.
They're like it's such a goodidea.
And I'm at a place now whereI'm like thank you, I know
because I, you know, as atherapist you have to do like 30
hours of continuing educationon a cycle.
So like every two years youhave to acquire these credits.
And I was like I cannot sitthrough another workshop without

(23:03):
something else to do, whilealso capturing like nuggets of
information or whatever.
And so that's how Doodle Noodleswas really born out of like my
own recognizing like, oh, I needsomething to do.
Like my own recognizing like,oh, I need something to do, that
I also I enjoy learning.
It's not like learning is likethe worst thing in the world for
me, like I can sit still, but Iwill daydream if I don't have
something else to do.

(23:24):
So it kind of was inspired outof that.
And then my friend, who is aelementary art teacher and an
artist herself, was like here'ssome.
She's not tech savvy.
She's like here's some things,whatever you can do with it, I'm
like putting it in Canva,taking out the background.
I was like great, and so that'show we have what we have.
And yeah, it just was likefirst it was a tool for me and

(23:48):
then I was like wait, low key, Ithink a lot of people could use
this and I'm an adult, otheradults could use it.
People often ask like, oh, isit for kids, is it?
I'm like, if a kid wants to useit, they can.
Like anybody who can hold alike a device of any kind, like
it doesn't have to be a markerwhatever you know what I mean.
Any sort of utensil that createsink onto paper, they, a person,

(24:12):
can use it.
So that's kind of like thebirth story of Doodle Noodles.
And yeah, it's on Etsy.
You can type in Doodle NoodleNotebooks on Instagram.
That's also the handle.

Aliya Cheyanne (24:24):
Yeah.
So, yeah, I love that.
Thank you for sharing thatorigin story, because I didn't
even fully know that and whileyou were talking, I was thinking
to myself like, oh, this is atool for you.
You just open it up for therest of us.
And I feel like so many timesthat is the creative process,
like whether or not you realizethat you're starting out to

(24:47):
create something for yourself orothers, it ultimately is for
you first.
And then if other people canbenefit from it too and gain
something.
That's part of the process, butthese are always tools for us.
First like yes, that's thespirit of creation.
So yeah okay.
So I I just kind of love theduality of the work that you do.

(25:11):
So you work with young people,you work with children.
You also work with withchildren, you also work with
adults.
You've expanded your work toalso include adults as well, and
I'm really kind of interestedin both components of that.
So you have people who areolder, who are kind of willing,
willing to grow, but already setin their habits in many ways,

(25:32):
many of them are breaking, youknow, generational patterns,
practices, things like that.
And then you're alsosimultaneously working with
young people who are new to theworld who are learning how
society work, whether those aregood or bad aspects of society
and, like you know, hoping togrow into an adult that can

(25:56):
regulate in the world andnavigate the world.
So I'm very curious about whatsupporting those demographics of
clients looks like for you andwhat sort of additional tools.
I know play therapy issomething that's used with
children, so I would love totalk a little bit more about
that.

Malia Segal (26:24):
Yeah, so it's interesting working with.
So I would love to talk alittle bit more about that was
like coming up as a playtherapist.
You learn that you never reallyask questions.
You also you just often reflectback what you see or what you
hear and it should the personchoose, they can like take the
invitation of, like yeah, I amreally feeling sad today.

(26:46):
You know I might say like youdon't seem like yourself today.
You seem really like heavy.
You know statements like thatthat I initially I mean even
with kids I struggled, like Ialways was like guessing.
I'm like are you okay today?
Like being a play therapistkind of pushes you to be like
I'm okay with getting it wrongwith you and I trust that you

(27:08):
child or adult are going to likecourse correct If I've got
something wrong.
Like you look really sad.
No, I'm just tired.
Oh, you're feeling tired today.
So play therapy andchild-centered play therapy
specifically.
So the way I practice with kidsis like they get to choose what
they do, what they play with.
Like I said, I'm in my officenow.
I have like a sand tray backthere, I have like board games,

(27:30):
so they really get to choosewhat they engage in.
And then with my adults I use adifferent space, but sometimes
I bring in coloring sheets or Ibring in the sand tray, just
like these like subtle ways tolike tap into the inner child.
The other tool that I use iswith adults, when I do coaching
which goes beyond likecounseling.
Is I use the Demartini method,is I use the Demartini method?

(27:59):
And so I describe it liketherapy is like making a salad.
The Demartini method is likebaking, so salad.
You can swap in a lot ofdifferent things and still get a
really good meal.
Baking is like if you are notprecise, you are not going to,
you're going to have like afloppy cake or whatever.
So with the Demartini methodit's like this very routinized
protocol of questions but itallows the person to kind of

(28:20):
like detach from their story andbecause you know, when it's
adults, like you had said, likesometimes they get really
attached to a story or a patternor a way of being and the
Demartini method kind ofseparates them from that.
So we get really specific.
We strip away labels likeabusive, alcoholic, stingy, and

(28:40):
then we identify the realitiesof what experiences that they
really had spending on clothesversus my medical needs, like
those things we can really workwith when I use the Demartini
method and then I bring back insome of the play therapy, like

(29:01):
whew, that was really heavy, youknow, addressing some of the
nervous system symptoms that maycome up, because sometimes even
just talking about somethingchallenging can activate the
nervous system.
So I blend a lot of differentmodalities when I'm working with
people and again I'm taking inlike what I see, like oh is, is
your system relaxed or are youfeeling more on high alert and

(29:23):
do we need to?
You know course correct again.
And when I first started as atherapist I was like only kids
ever.
I'm going to work in a schoolso I don't even have to talk to
the parents.
Looking back, I'm like, okay,let's see how that works out.

(29:45):
And then the teachers wereadults, so I had to talk to the
teachers.
And then parents would be likewho's this lady who's talking to
my child for 30 minutes once aweek?
Okay, I guess I got to talk toyou.
And so it just like there wasthis gradual growth process of
me like, and then realizing likeeverybody's doing some sort of
inner child work, Even if theydon't realize it, even if

(30:06):
they're like Nope, I'm happy theway I am.
Okay, great, can you honor yourinner child to who's like?
I'm happy with the way that Iam and I, you know, maybe
battling with some generationalstuff, like you had mentioned.
You know, I think a lot of usare like whoa, the generations
before us really went throughsome stuff and they carried it

(30:27):
over and we're trying to likehow do you hold space for that
and be like that was just thetime they came from, and also
being like and I didn't deserveto be treated or talked to in
this way.
I think holding both of thosecan be challenging and that's
why, you know, I think I'm I'm apretty good, yeah, holder of

(30:48):
things.
Like I will do.
I'm like sometimes I'm like I'ma good this and people who are
listening to this only what I'mdoing is I'm swirling my hands
around like I'm in a hot tub ofemotions and feelings and I'm
just like holding caning,similar to what I did at the
retreat right.
My role there was mental healthretreat concierge consultant

(31:13):
and people are like so what isthat?
I'm like, I just like holdspace.

Aliya Cheyanne (31:16):
Yeah.

Malia Segal (31:17):
But it's, it's.
It's hard to describe, like yousaid, it's like it's a hand on
the back, it's a deep breath,it's a, like a reassuring
connection that doesn't alwayshave like there's not always
words for what it is.
You know it's co-regulation,that's like the big bucket of
how I would describe it.

Aliya Cheyanne (31:36):
Yeah yeah, that's really rich with
information and I like how youutilize different tools and
practices to support differentdemographics with these things.
And I love the way that youdescribe like holding everything
, like even visually seeing youdo that, like it clicks and it

(31:56):
makes sense because there is somuch to actually hold, like
that's the tough part.
And I kind of want to build onwhat you were talking about
about the retreats I mentionedat the beginning.
That's where I met you and youbrought it up just now and I
think it's really powerful.
And I'm just curious to knowhow retreats have pushed you,
both personally andprofessionally, because I

(32:18):
imagine, especially as someonewho might identify with a label
as introverted, like being inthat, especially as a
practitioner, pushes you out ofyour comfort zone.
But also showing up to hold andco-regulate and support others
is a lot.
So how does that continue topush you and challenge you
personally and professionally?

Malia Segal (32:38):
Yeah, it was interesting just to hear you say
like identifying as anintrovert and then going to do
something like the retreat youknow, you as a participant, me
as a, you know, support person.
It's like the inspiration wasso big that it kind of quelled
the nervous anxiety, feelings oflike, oh my gosh, I'm going to

(33:00):
be around.
I don't know any of thesepeople, I mean even Sheila and I
we met virtually but like wenever met in person.
So it is I'm like, but theinspiration and the drive is so
big and confidence in my skillsand again I'm like I don't want
to say like I'm not doing much.
I know that what I'm doing I amvery capable of doing and I'm

(33:23):
not doing anything more.
I'm not trying to teach outloud, I'm not didactically like
leading, you know, workshops,I'm just like, yeah, holding
space and doing this, giving themints.
But I think something thatretreats often again,
professionally and personally,remind me of is reinforcing the
power of community as a safespace, a necessary space for

(33:45):
healing and growth.
I think, again, growing up Idefinitely had an internal story
that figured out by yourself.
So I've had to come back againand again and unlearn that you
need to do everything byyourself.
So being with others who arejust as committed to personal
growth and bearing safe witnesswhile other people do the same,

(34:05):
I think is just like a bigrealization that I need to be
like rinsed over and washed over, probably once a year, because
I can get stuck in my head oflike well, you just got to
figure out yourself.
Again.
I'm back at the doodle noodles.
Like I went to the print shopand I was like I am trying to
figure something out and itfeels really difficult.
Can you help me?

(34:26):
And they were like of course,but there's a story.
That's like you should go therealready knowing everything you
need to know.
And I'm like yeah where did thatstory come from?
So I think the retreats arejust like a, just a really
positive experience, just to bein community.
And then also, I think in themost recent retreat that I did

(34:47):
with Sheila again the unrulycountry was being in service to
black women.
I think they're so often theservice providers, myself
included, but I think I, like Ireveled in being able to like
bring over water, bring asquishy ball, bring something

(35:08):
like, offer some sort ofco-regulation resource to women,
who are often sought out aslike help me, heal me, fix me.
I'm like no, no, you don't haveto worry about any of that, I
am going to take care of you.
And that to me, is like so, um,like, when I again I was trying

(35:28):
to find words for it, I think Iwas like soul opening, heart
warming, like soul lifting,heart expanding, like that,
being able to be in service to apopulation who is so often yeah
, again just like relied soheavily on and like commended
for being strong.
And this it's like people aretired, people are burnt out.

(35:49):
Yes, so that's been a reallyit's something that I didn't
really expect to feel Like.
I just like I'm going to go anddo my thing and give and then
but even in the giving, I feltsomething, I gained something
from that.
So the retreats have been likea really positive and powerful

(36:10):
experience for me and I'm proudof us you and I for like going
out and forge, like being likeall right, I'm going to do this
thing and I'm going to trustthat I'm going to be okay.

Aliya Cheyanne (36:22):
Yeah, that's really beautiful.
I feel like just the way you'vetalked about community is so
important, because oftentimes wecan get in our heads and not
think that we need it as much aswe do but we definitely do and
just recognizing what's going onin ourselves and being
comfortable with beingvulnerable and asking for help
and knowing that we don't haveto know everything.

Malia Segal (36:43):
There's somebody out there that knows something
that can help us, and who wantsto help, and like somebody who's
like, yes, yeah, my gosh, I'vestudied this for years.
I would be happy to help someonefigure this problem out,
because that's how I am.
I'm like, if I know, if I knowa solution to something and
someone has a problem, I'm superinspired to go forth and offer

(37:04):
that.
And so it's interesting howsometimes that rule applies
outward but not inward, and soagain I kind of have to keep
peeling that onion back andbeing like Malia.
It is okay not to knoweverything and be the receiver
of help, not just the giver ofhelp.

Aliya Cheyanne (37:22):
Yes, absolutely, and even in you saying that,
like you know, receiving helpand giving help, but also what,
the way you explained it aboutjust Black women in particular,
how we are often, as you are,like two, the service providers,
the ones that people go to forhelp and support and all the
things, but we don't always getit in return.

(37:42):
That's so meaningful and soimportant.
One of my mentors, who's been aguest on the show as well,
ashante renee, has a wholecampaign called retiring
superwoman, like taking off thecape, and it's about the many
ways that we show up excessivelyand incessantly and it leaves
us so burnt out and drained andwhen we come together in

(38:04):
community and support each other, we heal ourselves and each
other and it's such a beautifuland powerful thing.
So I'm so glad again to havejust met you and interacted with
you at Third Tweet and all ofthe incredible women who really
showed up for community andpersonal growth.
I know I personally had wentduring that season myself
because I was really interestedin building more friendships and

(38:26):
like meeting more black womenwho are also equally committed
to personal growth growth.
I was able to have thatexperience and meet other women
who have gone on other retreats,not even the one that I went on
you know thereafter and buildcommunity and friendship that
way too.
So it's so powerful.
So yeah, the Unruly Retreat issomething special.

(38:47):
So if anyone ever has anopportunity to go go.
You'll meet Malia too.

Malia Segal (38:53):
Yes, yes, yeah.
I think you know that idea oflike taking the cape off again.
Like when I work with adults, alot of like our work is like
unraveling the story of likewhat a good, what a good, non
selfish person does, and I'mlike you get to be both again,
the multitudes.
Like you get to be selfish whenit serves you and fills your

(39:16):
own cup, and there is a time anda place to be selfless.
And I think, paralleling ortaking turns with some of that,
and I think about the beginningof my work with clients, adults
specifically, they'll be likewell, I want to be a good
daughter and good daughters dothis.
And I'm like, specifically,they'll be like well, I want to

(39:36):
be a good daughter and gooddaughters do this.
And I'm like I hear you and ifyou're tired and you're ill and
like is that what good daughtersdo?
Is run themselves down to be tonubs?
Like no, what do you?
What do you think a gooddaughter is capable of in with
the resources that you haveright now?
You know it can't be, you knowgoing into debt or you know

(39:58):
rushing around driving peoplethis place and that it's like
sometimes it's like saying no orhelping collaborate with
somebody to be like can you pickup so-and-so for this
appointment?
At this time, a lot of peopleare really again baked in their
story of, well, this is what agood mom, brother, sister,
whoever role does, and so westrip away some of those labels

(40:19):
of like it could be anything.
You know, what I think is agood dad could be very different
from what you think is a gooddad Somebody who works 80 hours
a week or someone whoprioritizes playing sports with
their kids.
You can't do both.
So you know you're financiallyproviding and you're okay with
that.
Or you're like you know what?
I make $25,000 a year, but meand my kids we play outside

(40:43):
every day for an hour.
Great, then, if that's yourhigh value, then I want that for
you.
So, yeah, when you mentionedthat, it just kind of sparked
for me.
Yeah, what comes up with womenespecially?
It's like, oh, I need to bementioned that it just kind of
sparked for me.
What comes up with?

Aliya Cheyanne (41:01):
women especially .
It's like oh, I need to be good.

Malia Segal (41:03):
And it's like well, what about you?
What about what you want?
Yeah, you're literallypreaching to me right now.
I have some food for thoughtafter this conversation.

Aliya Cheyanne (41:06):
I'm going to go sit in the corner and think
about things, but yeah, it'svery true facts.
Okay, so I want to shift gearsa little bit, because I'm
interested in some of your hottakes, and especially when it

(41:30):
comes to yeah, especially whenit comes to like therapy work,
healing work, mental health,like all these things.
So, for example, some peoplehave a lot of misconceptions
about what talk therapy or moresomatic types of therapy, or
EMDR, different formats.
You've mentioned simplepractices that most people
wouldn't consider therapeutic,but are, you know, walking?

Malia Segal (41:49):
and swinging your hands up and surfing like stuff
like that.

Aliya Cheyanne (41:53):
So I would love to talk about, like, what's one
misconception about therapy orhealing work that you wish more
people would unlearn, andsomething that's more of a truth
that you would offer in itsplace.

Malia Segal (42:07):
I mean, there's so many, I think even the other day
I met someone.
I was just like getting aservice done and they were like,
oh, do you give homework?
And I'm like I personally donot give therapeutic homework
because I'm like I didn't likehomework as a student and what
do I look like being like okaythis week.

(42:28):
I want you to journal yourthoughts and feelings If someone
arrives at a session andthey're like you know what I
felt.
The different modalities yeah,there are these like formal

(42:51):
modalities like EMDR and CBT,ebt.
There's a lot of like what arethose called?

Aliya Cheyanne (42:59):
Yeah, what's.

Malia Segal (43:00):
CBT and DBT.
Cbt is cognitive behavioraltherapy, which I think of like
as a triangle thoughts, feelings, actions.
If I have a thought, itgenerates a feeling.
A feeling will make me dosomething.
I don't necessarily subscribeto that.
I'm like maybe in one contextthat is true, but I think what a

(43:22):
lot of some of the modalitiesmiss that.
I think, EMDR does not is thebody component.
We stay up in the mind.
Dbt is dialectical behavioraltherapy that does bring in the
senses again, tapping into yourfive senses to stay grounded.
Some of the modalities skip thebody and just focus on the mind

(43:42):
and for some people that'sgreat.
But I think for most of us, andmyself included, I learned like
just by doing.
Even I did a specialcertification and it's called
Synergetic Play Therapy and theyvideotaped us and they were
like all right, and how did youfeel during that session?
And I was like what do you mean?

(44:04):
How did I feel?
And they were like like in yourbody.
And I'm like oh yeah, I do, Ido have a body.
How did I feel?
I was like, I think I felt okay, and then I see the video and I
look very stiff.
There was just a lot ofrigidity that I was holding that
I wasn't even aware of.
So I think you know, for peoplewho are again curious about

(44:28):
different modalities is likethink you know for people who
are again curious aboutdifferent modalities is like
don't be afraid to like playaround with different types and
just see what feels good to you.
You get to decide ultimatelywhat healing path is right for
you in that season of your life.
Like there's some people whoare like I can't do mindfulness
right now.
I can't, I can't be in my head.
I need to be moving.
Okay, well then maybe walk andtalk.
Therapy or ecotherapy is moreyour speed because you want to

(44:52):
be in motion.
The thought of sitting on acouch across from someone
staring at you asking youquestions may not be where
you're at, where you're at thisseason.
So, yeah, I think and even talktherapy.
I think like there it has it's,it has a shelf life.
I think, like you can only talkabout something for so long
before again, you might be sickof your own story, like I'm

(45:14):
tired of talking about this.
So, again, when I found theDemartini method, which again
it's a series of questions, it'svery prescriptive.
I try to bring in someflexibility to it when I can.
It kind of again pulls you outof the story.
You're like, oh, yes, okay,this is what I didn't resonate
with me from this experience andhow do I want to move forward?
So it is a mindset shift, a bitlike not necessarily how do I

(45:38):
get rid of these obstacles, buthow is this challenge serving me
and my higher purpose.
So, yeah, I think, just beingopen to experimenting with
different therapies, maybenoticing that you have a body
which I know sounds like weirdto say but again I was like, oh,
my heart was racing, oh, mybody was so stiff, oh, my

(46:00):
fingers are cold.
Now I'm so much more like it'slike I'm a newborn, like, well,
what are these things telling me?
What is this temperature?
What are all the things that mybody is doing, trying to
communicate to me about what Ineed in this moment?

Aliya Cheyanne (46:17):
So, yeah, yeah, that's really important and I
love that.
As someone who has gone on andoff talk therapy for years, in
the last few years I've beenmore interested in practices
that drop me more into my bodyand being more self-aware about
how, how and where emotions areliving and it's actually

(46:37):
something that my talk therapistgot me into, because I've done
EMDR with her and like all kindsof kinds of other things.
I've tried everything as we.

Malia Segal (46:47):
I mean, I think we got to.
They're all out there.
We might as well pick all thefruits and taste tests.

Aliya Cheyanne (46:56):
Yes, I agree, but it started off with her
asking me where feelings were inmy body, and I would always be
like I don't know.
It just kind of repulsed andicky about it in the beginning,
and then I got to a place whereI could actually okay, I
identified the feeling like whatis going on?
Where is the energy?
Now I'm in a different placewhere it's not icky or

(47:19):
uncomfortable.
I can acknowledge it.
I can recognize it and I canfigure out what works for me
next to move through that thing.
So, I think it's so importantand I you know there are a lot
of misconceptions, like you said, but I think the one you hit on
just now is really important,so thank you for sharing that.

Malia Segal (47:38):
Yes, remember everyone, you have a body and,
yes, you can go in your brainand do the things even again.
I would say that the Demartinimethod is a mostly cognitive
process.
So when I do that kind ofconsulting and coaching with
people I name that, I'm like I'mgoing to be asking you
questions, which is again theopposite of when I'm doing play

(47:59):
therapy.
I'm not asking any questions,I'm just like, oh, what is, what
is the information I'm seeing?
Oh, you're excited, you'rehappy, you have your glitter
shoes on today.
You know, very know, very like,just noticing where this one is
like okay.
So I want you, aaliyah, to goto the moment when you were at
the retreat and we were allgetting ready to take that
picture.
You felt my hand on yourshoulder and you melted, you

(48:22):
relaxed.
What was the benefit to you inthat moment?
You know, wow, I did make theright choice of going to this
retreat.
Like this was, this wassomething that was really good
for me.

Aliya Cheyanne (48:31):
Yeah.

Malia Segal (48:32):
So, yeah, just like yeah, being open to different
processes, and I think like,yeah, using that, your voice to
be like, yeah, I don't thinkthat this is right for me.
I think it's just as good, asyou know.
Oh, I think I found the rightmodality for me and what I need
right now.

Aliya Cheyanne (48:49):
Yeah, yes, exactly, I think it's trial and
error, testing things out tryall the things, just like you
said yeah, and I think in thisconversation you've expressed so
many ways to make you knowthese practices feel more human
and collaborative, as opposed tohow they can typically feel for

(49:10):
some people, which is like alittle out of touch or cold or
like disconnected.
There's so many ways to make itfeel more connected and
collaborative.
So thank you for sharing that.
As we wrap up, I would love toknow for you I talk about
creativity, purpose, alignmentand things like that on this

(49:31):
show all the time.
It's at the core of the show,the heart of the show, and I
would love to know from youright now, in this moment, what
does living like a prolific liferooted in creativity and
alignment and purpose look likefor you in this season?

Malia Segal (49:48):
Such a loaded heavy question that that was one like
I did notes for most of these,and then this one.
I was like, ah, what does thatmean?
Um, let's talk about it.
Yeah, yeah, I mean I, I think I,if anything I'm like, prolific
to me is like in its time again.

(50:09):
I have to put the brakes onmyself sometimes of like what is
possible in this moment, inthis season spring and summer
for me tend to be very expansiveand like it is like, quote,
unquote, my time to shine, yeah,and me just honoring that.
And then when November comes,like I just feel this like

(50:30):
seasonal.
I wouldn't even call it adepression.
I think depression for me waslike when I was trying so hard
to be on 12 months out of theyear.
I stopped feeling as depressedwhen I let myself like ease up
off the gas pedal and be likenope, I'm going to take less
clients November into February,I'm going to slow down.

(50:52):
So, like in this zoomed outseason, prolific to me is like
honoring what is in any givenmoment and being okay with that.
And and being not just okay, Ithink like gratitude and just
being grateful.
I'm like thank you, body andbrain, for telling me when I
need to slow down.
Or you know, there's timeswhere, as a person who I have

(51:16):
ADHD, like if I get an idea andI get inspired and it keeps me
up like till 1am, let's saythere definitely was a season of
life where I was like youshould be asleep right now.
Now I think I'm like you knowthe inspiration, the spark is

(51:37):
here.
I'm going to ride it until Idon't have it anymore and that's
okay.
No, so I think like leaninginto those different energy
shifts when they pop up.
I think I mean, and you post alot on Instagram.
I feel like every Instagramthing that you post about like
divine timing and seasons, andthere's just like I'm like yes,
yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,yes.
Like just honoring what is, asopposed to trying to fight for

(51:59):
fight and like push so hard,Like I'm like that season for
now is, is done.
I'm not in a fighting,combative mode.
I'm in a embracing what is andjust allowing myself to be.
And again, it's that like selftalk.
It's okay to rest, this is whatyour body is telling you you
need and yeah, that's.

(52:23):
I think that is me answeringthe question.

Aliya Cheyanne (52:27):
It is, and you know I love that, Like I am big
on that.
It's making me think about too,as I'm sure you know, as like a
clinician and a practitioner,but there are so many Black
women who are getting latediagnoses for like autism and
ADHD and all kinds of things nowin life because it shows up

(52:48):
differently in us than whiteboys and men.

Malia Segal (52:53):
Yes, which I'm at this point.
I think everybody low-key hasit Me too and it's really like I
just notice things.
I'm like, oh, everyone'spursuing what is most important
to them, and of course, I'mgoing to look like I'm detached
when the thing is notinteresting to me or it's not
inspiring to me or I haven't yetfound what that is Like.

(53:16):
Adhd often gets billed as likelike you have a hard time
focusing.
I'm like you should see me whenI'm really into something I
don't.
I won't let go.
Like that hyper fixation isreally real.
And again now with theself-compassion piece, I'm like
look at you honoring what's mostimportant to you right now.
And if you want to eat you knowwhatever for 17 weeks straight,

(53:39):
then do it.
You know what I mean.
There's these things.
And then all of a sudden, I'mlike, okay, I don't want to eat
that anymore, and being okaywith that too, as opposed to
having this internal conflict oflike why am I?
Why am I like this?
Why do I change with the wind?
It's like why not?
Who cares?
Why are we?
Why are we fighting about thiswith yourself?

(54:00):
Like it is okay to eat a hardboiled egg and two pieces of
bacon every day for as long asit feels right, you know, for as
long as it feels right, youknow, I literally just talked
about this with another guest onthe show.

Aliya Cheyanne (54:14):
You get hooked on something.

Malia Segal (54:15):
I was trying poppies, you know those
prebiotic sodas.
I was on a poppy ollie pop kickfor months and there was times
where I was like, and then I waslike Malia, you know yourself,
at this point You're going towring every last drop of
dopamine out of this and thenit'll be gone and you'll be on
to something else and I'm likeOK, ok, thanks for that pep talk

(54:36):
.
Yeah, because I was reallyjudging myself for being quote
unquote addicted, owning what isnot even owning what's good.
I think there's you knowthere's a lot of platitudes out
there of like let them and likeown what's good in your life,
and I'm just like or don't Like,it doesn't matter, it's like

(54:58):
life's going to do what it does.
And why be your own enemy whenyou can be your own cheerleader?

Aliya Cheyanne (55:05):
Yeah, oh, I love that.
Why be your own enemy if youcan be your own cheerleader?
I love that.
That's so important.
And yeah, I love an orangepoppy.
I love all the poppies, butwell, one flavor I don't like.
But I feel you and hyperfixating on males and stuff.
I literally talked about thiswith someone else as well and I
was saying before that I thinkit's so interesting, like in

(55:26):
this era of people having latediagnoses.
I do think we all got a littlesomething.
Honestly.
I think it's in response to andin rebellion to this system as a
whole yeah.
But I say that to say I'mnoticing a lot of women online
who are talking about findingout late that they might have

(55:48):
autism or ADHD or bothvariations of it, that in their
unmasking they're like gettingthis immense form of just like
burnout, like all of theoverachieving that they were
doing before it's totally goingto the wayside now and I feel
that a thousand percent.

(56:08):
I don't have an officialdiagnosis for anything, but I
think I got 10 and I went sohard in my 20 like trying to
like climb the corporate ladderand do all these different
things and like show up and andlike just kill myself really
with just trying to prove myselfand all these things.
And now, now, like in mythirties, I'm just like, no,

(56:31):
like.

Malia Segal (56:32):
I'm going to rest, I'm going to say enough.
I've done enough.

Aliya Cheyanne (56:36):
Yeah, I've done enough.
I'm going to honor the seasons.

Malia Segal (56:40):
Yes, exactly, and being like and I've done it.
I think, yes, I identify withthat hard and whenever I like
catch myself, yeah, like maybeself-criticizing or whatever,
I'm like, look, you've doneenough, think back to.
You had all those jobs, you didall those things.
No one told you to do all thatExactly.
And it's in the bank, so tospeak.

(57:01):
Right, like.
I'm like I don't need to workas hard now on things that are
not as important to me.
I get to decide what'simportant to me in this season
and if I'm going to put my timeand attention towards it.
But yeah, my colleague has likea quote.
I don't know who it's by, butit was like I am enough, I have
enough, I do enough and I'm like, yeah, 1000%.

Aliya Cheyanne (57:23):
So I just resonate a lot with so much that
you shared, like, thank you somuch for showing up today yes,
of course, so honestly, sovulnerably, so transparently,
and for giving us so manyresources and, for you know,
just sharing so many examples ofthings that folks can do to
take care of themselves, be incommunity with others, and it's

(57:45):
been really, really powerful.
I really loved our conversationand spending this time with you
.
Can you let folks know where toget involved with your work,
where to support you, where tofollow you online and, again,
where to purchase their copy ofDoodle.
Noodles or anything that youhave going on.

Malia Segal (58:02):
Yes, so my website is rebelsevolvecom.
You can find Doodle Noodlesthrough there, as well as on
Etsy Doodle Noodle Notebooks.
Also on Instagram, I doempowerment coaching virtually.
So no matter where you are inthe world, we can do coaching.
And then in New Jersey, I'm alicensed therapist authorized to

(58:24):
do therapy virtually or inperson if people are local to
Shrewsbury, new Jersey, in theUnited States.
Yeah, and that's how you canfind me.
I'm on Instagram.
I'm still figuring out like theInstagram thing.
As far as like, again, I'm notputting too much.
I'm not a social mediamarketing expert, so I'm just
like yeah, I got three or fourInstagrams.

(58:44):
One is my personal.
Sometimes I post business onthere.
I got a, a doodle noodles one.
I have a one for rebels evolve.
I'm just always rotatingthrough where I'm posting and
what I'm posting, but I think itall comes back to I'm like
whatever I post, I want to beintentional about it.
So whenever I see those likeclips that are like you post

(59:05):
every day or engage youraudience, I I'm like too much
noise.
I'm like, if I feel called to,I will post something I don't
want to follow, like a playbookor a program.
It's just I'm like no, no, no,thanks.
I'm going to do my littledoodles, I'm going to do, I'm
going to take care of me and ifI again like this summer, I may

(59:28):
post a hundred times, and thenyou will not hear from me until
2026, and that's fine, I'm okaywith that.

Aliya Cheyanne (59:35):
And that's on honoring your process, divine
timing and what season you're inand going with the flow going
with the flow.
Yes, yes, thank you, malia,this is so great, of course, yes
.