What if realestate.com.au isn't just a listings portal, but a behavioural database mapping every buyer and vendor in Australia? In this episode, Luke Dore, National Customer Training Manager at REA Group, reveals how 13 million monthly users are creating the largest property intent database in the country—and how agents can tap into those insights.
Luke shares how REA reverse engineers successful buyer journeys, using AI to predict transaction likelihood before buyers even know they're ready. We explore the shift from FOMO to FOBO (fear of better options), why buyer decision-making has extended from 34 to 44 weeks, and how 66% of sellers start without a preferred agent.
Key takeaways: Speed wins listings, reviews are essential (76% of sellers research them), authenticity beats production value in videos, and REA's data shows pay-to-play advertising delivers measurable results.
00:00 Introduction and Market Trends
00:43 Welcome and Guest Introduction
01:14 Understanding Realestate.com as a Behavioral Database
02:56 Customer Personas and Behavioral Insights
07:08 Identifying and Attracting Potential Sellers
11:15 Importance of Reviews and Agent Profiles
15:57 Effective Lead Response Strategies
18:49 The Power of Video in Real Estate
26:28 AI and Future Trends in Real Estate
31:07 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Visit www.propertyedge.app/the-property-edge-podcast to see other episodes, see episode summaries and read transcripts.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
sonic logo
Rob (00:04):
Today's episode or the property edge podcast.:
Luke Dore (00:07):
there's a phrase in the market, Rob, that we're
hearing, which is no longerFOMO, fear of missing out.
It's now FOBO, which is fear ofbetter options.
People don't want to make thepurchase because they want to
hold off in case there's anotheroption around the corner.
the agent who is most successfulin actually winning that listing
is the one that respondsquickest.
The seller is seeing theresponse that they get as a
(00:29):
reflection of how well buyersare gonna be served, should they
give their business to thatagent if they're slow to respond
to them, then they see that as areflection that they might be
slow to respond to buyers andpotentially buyers might get off
the hook.
Mhm.
Rob (00:43):
Hello and welcome to the Property Edge Podcast where we
talk all things real estate,data tech integrations, AI.
My name's Rob Turnbull, andtoday we're looking at a
different perspective on realestate.
I'm delighted to be joined todayby Luke Dore, who is the
National Customer TrainingManager for REA Group.
(01:04):
Welcome Luke.
Thanks Rob, thanks for having meWell, it's brilliant to have you
on, and I must say when we wereplanning this, there were so
many different rabbit holes wecould have gone down, all right?
But what I wanna focus on today,is that real estate.com really
isn't just a listing portal ifyou change your perspective.
It's also a behavioral databaseof pretty much every single
(01:24):
perspective buyer and vendor inthe country.
And so what I was hoping today,we could have a chinwag about
the, the insights and theunderstanding of those behaviors
and how agents and agencies canbenefit from those insights.
So to start with, who are you,Luke, and what do you do?
Luke Dore (01:43):
I.
I've been at REA now,realestate.com au as a lot of
your audience will know it forover 10 years, which a lifetime
in a, in a digital sense.
So predominantly in customerfacing roles, really Rob dealing
with agents and agencies, NewSouth Wales and, and Victoria.
But I've recently stepped intothis role as national customer
training manager alongsidesomeone who, a lot of people
(02:06):
might know Tara Christen.
She's been industry for 20years.
She's really on the cutting edgeof those digital trends that
we're starting to see.
Whereas role that I'm playing inthe nack that I have is really
joining the dots between whatthe lives of our customers are.
You know, how they integratewith not only real com au, but
(02:26):
also outside of REA resources aswell.
So I think my role is thatconduit between REA and and
their business.
So we do it at scale, a lot ofin-person presentations to a lot
of larger groups events,training sessions, some short
form videos, online contentwebinars, all that sort of
stuff.
So it's, full on Rob.
It's, it's demanding, but it's,you know, it's a hell of a lot
(02:49):
of fun as well.
Rob (02:51):
All right, well let's get some of those insights and those
data-driven understanding ofcustomers out of you today.
Let's start with, you know, inmarketing we use personas,
customer personas, we sort ofgroup people together by similar
behavioral trends.
How do you approach customers atREA group?
Luke Dore (03:08):
We probably don't use personas in the traditional
marketing sense, but that beingsaid, we have such an
advantageous position with wherewe're at because we have such a,
a strong audience that visitsour website every month.
I think at last track there wasover 13 million individuals who
hit realestate com au in onemonth alone.
So it's, you know, effectivelyit's half the population that
(03:31):
are coming.
And when they come, they'respending about 35 minutes on
average, per month per user.
it is a large sample size, andit is a long time that they're
engaging with the site.
So we have that, like I said,that advantageous position being
able to identify exactly wherethey sit in the property cycle
at any given point in time Sowhether they're buyers, renters,
(03:53):
vendors, landlords, some peoplecould be all for at once we
identify those trends and wherepeople are at and then impart
that knowledge back to youraudience that the agents, so, to
give an example, like we have onaverage every month there's
40,000 buyers come to REA andthey tell us, yes, I was the
(04:14):
successful purchaser of thisspecific property.
So what we can then do off theback of that is reverse engineer
all of their.
Behaviors and all their patternsthat they've had on REA and then
that can then power ourintelligence and a lot of the
time use artificial intelligenceto better connect with and
provide value to the real estateprofessionals that are working
(04:36):
in this industry.
So lot of'em have access to thisinformation.
They can start the relationshipearly with these prospective
buyers and real estate directorsand and agents are, are often
asking me, okay, so why do youbother with owners?
Well, that is, that is the realcrux of the reason right there.
It's so that we can track thesepeople, but also so we can
reverse engineer all theirbehavior before they've made the
(04:58):
purchase and then we can providethat intel and help shape really
positive experiences for a lotof agents.
Rob (05:06):
So someone jumps on your site.
How do you differentiate betweensomeone who's just browsing for
fun because they're.
Dreaming of buying a new houseone day and someone who's
browsing with intent.
Luke Dore (05:17):
It's a, it's a good one.
There's a couple of ways.
So I'll start with the easyanswer.
So when it comes to intent,you've got those legitimate,
really, the calls to action,which are, whether it's an email
inquiry or a phone inquiry.
they might click on the mortgagechoice mortgage calculator to
work out whether or not they canactually afford the home.
They might register for aninspection or request an open
(05:37):
for inspection.
So they're the, the legitimatecalls to action, But in terms of
sort of, you know, browsing withintent and the, what we'd call
the inferred signals, that mightbe things like frequency,
duration and consistency.
You know, one user months agoonly been on site for three
minutes.
One of their friends sent theman email or a link.
(05:57):
They clicked on that link.
They opened up the property.
It was a beautiful coastalproperty with the horizon pool
that overlooked at over theocean.
And then we don't hear from thatuser again for another 12
months.
But then in 12 months time, westart to realize that they're on
the site every single day.
They're visiting for over 30minutes when they do come to the
site and they're looking atmaybe core three or four
(06:19):
suburbs, well, we can suggestthat those inferred signals
suggest that they're browsingwith intent.
So frequency, duration andconsistency are, are the things
that we, we sort of measure.
we know that that time in thebuying journey now has really
pushed out.
So traditionally it was 34 weeksfor a buyer from the time they
decided they were gonna buy towhen they did purchase, it's now
(06:40):
blown out to 44 weeks, whichtells us that a lot of people
are doing a lot more research.
They're taking their time.
And there's a phrase in themarket, Rob, that we're hearing,
which is no longer FOMO, fear ofmissing out.
It's now FOBO, which is fear ofbetter options.
People don't want to make thepurchase because they want to
hold off in case there's anotheroption around the corner.
Rob (07:02):
Fear of better options.
I've never heard that onebefore.
I like that.
Luke Dore (07:05):
It definitely is not one of mine.
That's for sure.
Rob (07:08):
Related to that is, is part of that journey would be if you
are a vendor, finding an agent?
I read in one of your or one ofrealestate dot com's brochure
things that nearly two thirds ofsellers start without a
preferred agent, which amazedme.
I just figured everyone had apreferred agent from, from from
past experience or from simplyseeing local branding.
(07:31):
So how can agents influencethat, apart from their regular
brand building exercise thatthey'll be doing day in, day out
anyway in their local area?
How on earth, on realestate.comdo you stick your head up?
Luke Dore (07:44):
Yeah, it's the million dollar question.
I think, like Tara and I speakabout content that agents put
out there that does one of threethings that either attracts
people into their network,nurtures those people that they
currently have in their network,and then it converts those
people that they have to a, atransaction or a listing, if you
like.
So what we're speaking about nowis really that attraction side
(08:05):
of their business.
I think the first step and themost crucial step in attracting
is identifying exactly who thesepeople are, which, unless you've
got a microphone tapped underpeople's kitchen benches in
every house in your market,it's, it's pretty hard.
Right?
It's hard to, it's hard to dothat.
But we do have tools at REA thathelp agents with that, one of
(08:26):
which is if a buyer sendsthrough an email inquiry, they
can also identify whetherthey're looking to sell, and we
will flag that without prosubscribers on REA.
So, although they might not havenecessarily proactively reached
out to sell just yet, thatindicated that they're looking
to sell.
So first step is to identify whothose people are which is the
(08:47):
most crucial one, the secondstep is to provide value.
So helping them with theirpurchase, providing them some
data, some insights, but itcould be as simple as, you know,
if you live and operate in thesame community, are your kids in
the same netball group and areyou going to that netball game
every Saturday morning?
Do you wanna help out with thescoring and the third step is to
convey what a lot of marketersrefer to as the the unique value
(09:11):
proposition.
I like to use the word'superpowers.' What is your
individual'superpower' as anagent, and have you conveyed
that to these people?
It could be that you are reallygood at styling and furnishing.
It could be you're an expertnegotiator.
You might be a social media whizwho has an extended network on
TikToc, facebook, Insta, thewhole lot.
(09:31):
So whatever that is, make sureconvey message to people.
It's funny, I was out with acouple for dinner recently and
they were having a chat aboutthe fact they'd just gone on the
market.
And as I naturally do,, I'm verycurious about how it came to be
that they chose their agent andhe said he'd received the text
message outta the blue from theagent that they've listed with.
It Turns out what had happenedwas.
(09:53):
They'd spoken to another familyas they were dropping their kids
off at school.
That family was friends with theagent and passed the information
on, and very subtly that agentjust sent through a text message
and said,"Hey, this is all ofthe data that I've got about
properties that I've sold in thesame price bracket as yours."
Now, this agent hasn't sold thelion's share of properties in
the market, but they've soldmore properties in that price
(10:15):
bracket than anyone else.
What they've identified there istheir own individual superpower.
They've got that 1.5 to$2million bracket, sown up and
they found a little loophole, alittle way to get in and
actually communicate that topeople.
So yeah, identify who they're,provide value and then convey
your superpower.
Rob (10:34):
And that would be via the profile, the agent profiles on
the platform, right?
Luke Dore (10:38):
Yeah, absolutely.
It can be.
Like you said, two thirds ofpeople have started the process
without an agent in mind.
All doing really is if they'renot coming to realestate.com au
or any other portals straightaway.
They'll google the name thatthey've heard about.
So word of mouth definitelystill plays a part because
people hear the name first, butthen once they.
Google the name, more thanlikely they're going to run into
(11:00):
the REA profile and they'll beable to see all the information
about the agent there.
Rob (11:04):
I do love how offline and online blends, you know, you
bump into someone at school,drop off whatever it is, and
you're gonna research them andyou end up online in a portal or
then you end up on the agencywebsite.
It's amazing how everythingblends together.
So your messaging has to be soconsistent so, so what does,
what does a top, top agentprofile look like on your site?
Luke Dore (11:22):
So majority of them on our site we're finding are
complete.
And we're talking about havingan updated cover image, the
videos are there, and they'recurrent as well, and they really
portray the agent really well.
We've just launched agent reels,which is a, a really cool video
that the agent can use to marketthemselves.
Yep.
So think like what you can seeon Instagram with, with reels on
(11:44):
Instagram.
Agents can do the same thing ontheir REA profile now, which is
really cool.
Social media links are up todate.
The awards that they've won arethere, and they've also got
reviews all of their informationabout themselves.
So that's, that's, you know,the, the good ones.
But if you want to talk aboutlike that top 5% and, you know,
around the country, I'm talkingabout a handful of agents that
(12:05):
I've worked with might beupdating their cover image or
their video maybe once a month,and it will be frequently there
based on new properties that.
They might clearly highlighttheir superpower, and they can
do this in their description oron their video.
So what is the specific thingabout them that sets them apart.
(12:26):
The other thing that some aredoing as well is that they're
copying the reviews that theyget from their clients, and
they're pasting this into theirdescription.
Now whether you're getting thereviews on REA, Google, any
other provider, they're grabbingthose reviews and putting that
into their description.
And we actually now syndicatewith Google as well, which is a,
a really cool thing that it'sgonna make life a lot easier as
(12:47):
well.
Little footnote there foragents.
and then the last thing that,that, again, the top four or 5%
of agents are doing is they'reactually replying to their
clients, once they do submit areview and they are replying
publicly.
So I think a lot of agents getinto the trap of just getting a
review and thinking, that'sgreat.
I've got my review on there.
It's all done.
(13:08):
But we need to put ourselvesinto the shoes of the
prospective vendor.
what they're doing is thatthey're looking at these reviews
as social proof An agent isresponding to people after
they've submitted a review itshows that they're the type of
agent who is still willing towork with people even after the
transaction's done.
They're still willing to engage.
They still have a relationshipoutside of the cut and thrust of
(13:30):
just selling the home.
Rob (13:32):
Yeah, that's one thing I did wanna talk about is, is
those reviews.
Because if you, if I jump onrealestate.com now and look at
any one area, there's gonna be adozen agents who have got a
really high star rating and, 20plus properties sold.
Are reviews just table stakes?
Should you be asking everysingle person you deal with for
a review?
I mean, is it that simple?
Luke Dore (13:54):
It is and absolutely it's not just table stakes.
It is a little, little output,but big impact.
And I say a little output andwell aware that there are a
number of providers out thereand it can be a little bit
cumbersome to ask a past clientleave a review on multiple
different platforms.
I think, I think that's, youknow, not something we wanna be
(14:14):
doing.
And as I mentioned, we nowsyndicate with Google as well,
so we can have one review leftthat goes to both, 76% of
sellers who use online sources,Rob, have told us that they are
using ratings and reviews whenthey're researching agents.
It's over three quarters, sothe, the proof is in the pudding
there.
Again, it's a little bit awkwarddepending on what market you're
(14:35):
in.
I know.
there's some agents who justdon't feel comfortable asking
past clients for reviews.
'cause it's, you know, it's,it's a little bit of an awkward
sort of thing to ask, but itdefinitely does have big
implications based onprospective vendors and what
they see.
And we've gotta compare what wedo in this industry to what
other industries are doing.
We shouldn't be comparingourselves just to other agents.
(14:56):
You look at any other, likehospitality, retail, even book
sales, the beauty industry.
I mean, they've been doing itfor years and doing it really
well.
So the average consumer, they'rethinking the same thing.
They're, they're comparingoutside of industry about their
experience.
I put it to any agent who wantsto question it.
If you are a prospective vendorand you are looking at two
(15:17):
agents side by side and one ofthem had 30 reviews on their
profile and the other had none,my suggestion is it would be a
red flag.
The person who doesn't have anyreviews, particularly given that
sometimes people are taking upto 10 or 11 years until they
sell their property, theyhaven't been used to the
industry.
They know what, what to expect.
It be a red flag if there wereno reviews.
Rob (15:39):
So add request review to your post-sale workflow is
that's what you're saying.
Luke Dore (15:45):
Yeah, well 100%.
And if I can a little bit ofwork as well, once that review
comes through, definitely replyand reply publicly so that.
hits your profile.
Rob (15:55):
Righto.
That's a good intake there.
Now, if, if I'm a if I'm aprospect, I'm jumping on real
estate.com.
I'm looking around, I submit.
'cause I can send a message toan agent, can't i, through
realestate.com.
What's best practice here?
Because I reckon this is I knowa number of agents were pretty
slack in this and they knowthey're slack, but they they got
so much going on.
What does great look like andhow can they make this work for
(16:18):
them?
Luke Dore (16:19):
Yeah, so the first step is immediacy, so making
sure that the response that wehave is immediate.
Now, granted a lot of agentsmight be in meetings, appraisals
at the that an appraisal requestcomes through.
So being able to respond reallyquickly isn't always tangible.
But I, I think you mentionedthat you know that the average
response expectation of a selleris that they are responded to
(16:43):
within 48 hours, which is prettyfast.
And we know that usually it'sonly a two or three horse race.
So on average, the seller issending through a lead request
to 2.5 agents on average so, andwhat we are finding off the back
of that is the agent who is mostsuccessful in actually winning
that listing is the one thatresponds quickest.
(17:05):
The seller is seeing theresponse that they get as a
reflection of how well buyersare gonna be served, should they
give their business to thatagent if they're slow to respond
to them, then they see that as areflection that they might be
slow to respond to buyers andpotentially buyers might get off
the hook.
So immediacy is definitely one.
The second one I would say ispersonalization as well.
So when you ask about what doesgreat look like in terms of lead
(17:27):
responses, personalisation Ithink we do well in terms of the
name of the, the seller or theaddress of the property that
they're sitting on.
But what we need to do is gothat extra mile, start calling
out the unique home features ofthat property.
What are the things that setthat apart?
And communication preferences.
So we know that the consumerswho are over 45, they, they sort
(17:49):
of like a mix.
50% of the time they want aphone call.
50% of the time they want textor email.
Whereas if you are under 45,they only want a phone call 25%
of the time, which means that alot of the time, a text message,
WhatsApp message, and email cansuffice.
And then the last thing I wouldsay is that it is outcome
focused.
(18:09):
So whatever the message you giveis, it needs to be really
focused on what that sellerwants and the outcome that you
as an agent can deliver.
We know that the number one mostimportant quality of an agent,
according to sellers, was thatthe agent truly cares and wants
the best outcome for them, so ifyou can find a way to deliver
that message.
(18:30):
you're definitely going to be inthe box seat.
Right.
So it's finding a way to makesure that someone can, can
answer that prospect or thatappraisal request, even if it's
not with an instant appraisal,it is with a response.
Right?
So it might have to go to the,the office and the office does
it.
Yeah, spot on.
Yeah.
Find a way to get back to themas soon as you possibly can.
Rob (18:46):
Let's now move to a listing.
And if I look at how things havemoved, we've gone from, you
know, photos into videos.
Where are videos going?
How important are videos, andwhat does great again look like?
Luke Dore (19:04):
So aside from images, the most highly engaged with
medium on our platform, we'refinding are videos.
Like if, if a photo, as theysay, tells a thousand words
while a video tells a millionwords.
So in terms of selling theproperty or moving the property,
absolutely.
It's really powerful.
But it's also not just propertyrelated.
We know that it's agent andagency related as well.
(19:27):
And like I mentioned, we've gotagent reels that agents can use.
A lot of consumers are seeingthis as the digital interview,
so their opportunity to get toknow the agent before they have
to show their hand.
And if a video makes an agentmore familiar, we know that
familiarity breeds trust andtrusts breeds a greater
likelihood to invite you intotheir home.
(19:48):
So it's, it's uncomfortable, Iget it.
Like a lot of agents strugglewith video.
But you know, if you can find away to do it.
It, it definitely has impact andthere's some ways that you can
get around it too, so it isn'tso uncomfortable.
You know, like even things likean interview, like this sort of
style can sometimes disarm thefeelings that a lot of people
have of, of nervousness.
Even voiceovers can be reallyimportant.
(20:09):
So if you don't wanna put yourface on there, have a voiceover
over the top of a propertywalkthrough or whatever, and
then subtitles are really aswell Rob.
What we're seeing from consumersis that over 80% of videos
aren't watched with the soundon, you know, they're on a train
or they're sitting on the couchnext to their spouse, and they
don't wanna have the sound on,so they're watching it with
(20:30):
subtitles.
If you can do a voiceover andput subtitles across the bottom,
it'll help relay the messagethat you wanna convey.
Rob (20:38):
Yeah, that's a good take there.
It's about quality of video.
You know, you can, you can pay afew grand and get a pro to come
in and, and create amazing videoof a house and then chuck over
some mood music, or you getyourself a gimbal and you walk
around and, and talk about thehouse yourself.
Have you got any data or anystats about whether one works
significantly more than anotherbecause if a vendor doesn't
(21:00):
wanna pay for a, a high-endvideo, is it that much worse
just to have the agent wanderaround and show the property
themselves?
Luke Dore (21:08):
So in terms of attracting the buyer pool,
absolutely not.
In actual fact, we've found thatauthenticity is the thing that
more people are engaging with.
As opposed to you know, highlypolished, high production value
videos.
That being said, like everyagent agency, whether you are
part of a bigger franchise or aboutique, there is a brand
(21:29):
reputation to uphold.
So you don't want to do that tothe detriment of your brand.
And I know that there's a lot offranchises with strict
guidelines around the way thatvideos are shot.
I think if you can still do thatand maintain the authenticity of
message, then that'll go a longway.
Rob (21:48):
I I feel there's, there's some agencies that actually
invest some of their own moneyinto those videos, and it's well
worth it because the productionvalue increases enormously,
doesn't it?
Luke Dore (21:57):
Yeah, absolutely they do.
And I know like, like I said,we've got a captive audiences
like real estate is an industrythat whether you are selling or
buying or neither of thosethings, people are so captivated
by it.
They wanna know, they wantsticky beak about the property
around the corner, what theysold for.
So agents have this captiveaudience at their fingertips
(22:17):
that they can engage with.
It's not like you need to go outand find this audience.
People are genuinely very keento, know about what's happening
in the market.
Rob (22:26):
Yeah, well, so, so what's happening next in this space?
You know, photos, videos, longdescriptions.
How else can how else isrealestate.com gonna help
vendors market their propertyand help help buyers understand
the unique nature of each ofthose properties?
Luke Dore (22:42):
We move pretty quick, Rob, and I'm happy to say that
it's only a few weeks away thatwe are gonna launch what we're
referring to as propertywalkthroughs.
Which are short, sharp videosthat agents can take simply in
the palm of their hand through aphone and walk through that
listing and pop it up on the,the listing, whether it's online
through an app or on thedesktop.
(23:03):
So they're gonna be really cool.
It'll give, like I said, everyagent an opportunity to be able
to do it.
I think the benefit for theagent is, it gives them the
opportunity to showcasethemselves and the listing for
the vendor.
It's a really dynamic view ofthe property that you, you can't
necessarily get through justphotos and for the buyer, it's a
more realistic representation ofthe home.
(23:24):
So I think everyone wins withthe fact that, yeah, we're
launching these propertywalkthrough videos from the 1st
of July.
Rob (23:32):
Righto.
Okay, well, there's somethingnew.
Let's talk about ads.
Now, you know, there's the payto play space, do properties
that rank the top of the list,do they sell better?
Is their data to back that up?
Now, you're probably gonna sayyes'cause you want agents to
spend their money with you,right?
But if I'm looking for aproperty in suburb A and you are
constantly showing me one insuburb C, am I gonna suddenly
(23:54):
start looking at that property?
Or if I look at it once and youkeep showing me that property,
am I gonna end up buying it?
What, what does the data show?
Luke Dore (24:01):
So I will talk to the data because without the data,
I'm just another person with anopinion and the data tells us
that yes, both of thosecategories are correct.
So when you refer to the, at thetop of the search results, what
we refer to with that is thePremier Plus listing, which is
the.
The premium, you know, the bestoption that you have in terms of
listing.
know, and we've had this inmarket for a couple of years
(24:23):
now, so across tens of thousandsof listings, so there's a really
large sample size.
We know that Premier Pluslistings will sell 12 days
faster than a normal premierlisting, which is the, the tier
below.
Now part of that listing packageas well is that the.
vendor and the agent have theability once within the campaign
(24:43):
to push a button and push thatproperty back to the very top of
the search results, right?
So when a consumer does asearch, it sits at the very top.
Now, they can only do that oncewithin the campaign, but the
week after they do that, what'swhat's called a listing bump.
After they do that listing bump,we see 105% more page views in
that week following.
So twice the amount of pageviews and we know the Premier
(25:06):
Plus listings as a result ofgetting more page views, they
get 20% more inquiries.
So, generally speaking, moreinquiries means more
competition, and morecompetition means a higher sell
price.
Rob (25:20):
So the pay to play space does work.
Luke Dore (25:23):
Yeah, absolutely it does.
And to touch on the other, youknow, part you mentioned whether
if you're in a different suburband you're being enticed with
other properties as a buyer,does that, does it actually
entice you to view them?
We know that there's like theactive audience who are
proactively coming to the siteand they've got their core three
or four suburbs that they'relooking at.
But then you've also got thatpassive audience who aren't
(25:44):
necessarily as proactive, but ifthe right option came across to
them, then they would be willingto engage.
Now, whether or not that personis the eventual buyer or not, is
kind of irrelevant.
All that, the vendor isconcerned with.
The agent is concerned with.
He's getting the highest saleprice.
And I don't think, you know,there's no buyer in the land who
(26:04):
wakes up in the morning Rob andsays, you know what?
I'm gonna pay$150,000 abovemarket value for this property.
And yet a lot of buyers end updoing that.
And the reason they do that isbecause of the competition that
it drove them to actually drivethat higher sale price.
So absolutely out of areamarketing definitely works to
create competition, and thecompetition creates the higher
(26:25):
sale price.
Rob (26:27):
Right.
I wanted to talk to you aboutai.
Now every single company in theworld is playing dabbling or
not, but pretending they are,what are REA group doing and
what, what's gonna benefitagents and agencies in the near
future.
Luke Dore (26:42):
I'll start with what REA is doing in this space to
start with.
And the first is that we'redelivering a more personalized
experience to our consumers.
who come to our app and ourdesktop device now.
And what I mean by that is ifyou think about the way that
Netflix or Spotify will tellyou, Rob, what sort of music you
might be interested or what tvshows you might be interested
(27:03):
in.
We are preempting the types ofproperties that consumers might
be interested in based on theirsearch.
We are preempting the types ofagents they might be interested
in based on their search aswell.
And we're giving a homepageexperience that can literally
have hundreds of thousands of,of different iterations based on
what that consumer's previousexperience might be.
(27:24):
So definitely playing in thatspace.
I mentioned before the fact thatwe reverse engineer when someone
claims that they purchased aproperty.
So we can also provide data toagents, and this starts to blend
into how agencies using itreally well.
But we can provide data toagents that suggests that as a
consumer, this person is at thelate stages in terms of being
(27:45):
ready to buy or ready to sell.
And their propensity to wannabuy or propensity to wanna sell
is a certain score out of 10.
And that, again, is based ontheir behavior on our website.
So lot of artificialintelligence that powers that to
get those results through toagents.
You know, there's things thatare a little bit rogue that
agents are doing as well, thatthat work really well.
(28:06):
One of those is the, theconversation that they have to
have with vendors midway througha campaign that might not be
going so well if they need tohave a conversation with that
vendor about reducing the price.
What I'm finding they're doingis go to, whether it's our
comparable market analysisreport or any data, and they'll
just copy all of the data.
(28:27):
They'll paste it into chat, GPTor whatever they're using and
say, you use this data to crafta price reduction compensation
for me to have with this vendorof this property at this
address?
And it's spinning out the mostpolished diplomatic responses
and whether it's letters orconversations that they can then
(28:47):
go and have with their vendorsit's making them look like
absolute experts.
I think, which is a really coolway to do it.
And it means that, theconversation is, is backed on
data and it's based back on factas opposed to it just being the
agent's opinion that we need toreduce the price of the
property.
Rob (29:06):
In the future, I know agents and agencies are
concerned, AI is gonna becomemore and more of a a customer
touchpoint, taking away theface-to-face.
How do you see this playing out?
Is there a point where.
Yeah, people want thatpersonalized touch,?
I mean, realestate.com is alistings portal.
It is impersonal.
(29:28):
How can you make that morepersonal?
And you're saying that the AInow is driving a lot of the
content, the dynamic content thecustomers do see.
How else can you see thisrolling out over the next few
years?
A really open-ended question foryou.
Luke Dore (29:41):
No, I like it.
I, I think that it's gonna helpreally to preempt the types of
consumers that might be ready tolist.
I, I think, which, again, ifyou're a consumer, you, you're a
little bit nervous about thatbecause you're thinking, okay,
how do, how do people know aboutthis?
But I think it's gonna helpagents connect the dots there to
those consumers who might beready to list.
(30:02):
I also think that based ontrends, we are gonna be able to
provide better economicpredictions about properties,
what a property is gonna cost,or how much it's gonna make,
that that buyer is really, youknow, still the most important
thing when they're, when they'relooking to purchase.
So I think it's gonna helpagents have, you know, better
(30:23):
conversations around economicpredictions as well.
But think it's gonna help themto cherry pick the right buyers.
I think there lot.
Call it peripheral noise orperipheral work that agents have
to do at the moment to try andfind that right buyer.
think AI is definitely gonnahelp'em cut through to the chase
and get the person that theyneed to get the deal done and
(30:43):
start negotiating a lot earlierand negotiating more
importantly.
With the right person.
So in a nutshell, yeah,absolutely personalization is,
is here to stay.
And I think it's only gonnaenhance it with ai, and I think
it's gonna fast track theirability as in the agent's
ability to have the rightconversations at the right time
with the right people, asopposed to a lot of wishy-washy
(31:04):
tyre kicking conversations.
Rob (31:06):
Yeah, that's fair.
That's a fair point and I thinkthat's a brilliant point also to
end it there, Luke, this hasbeen a really fascinating.
Conversation.
You know, there's so manydifferent little segues we, we
can take when it comes to this,but you've really created some
value here showing people howthey can improve their own
performance in realestate.com.
But also just generally I'velearned a lot about how you
(31:29):
review and understand customersand how you reverse engineer
things, which I think is reallyvaluable.
And, you know, as, as ourindustry evolves.
realestate.com will continue tobe a giant in it.
And it's brilliant to see howmany tools that realestate.com
is putting out there to helpagents list and, and vendors
list their pro their propertiesand really get the best price
(31:50):
possible.
So thank you so much for yourtime today, Luke.
Luke Dore (31:53):
My pleasure, Rob.
Thanks.
for having me on.
Rob (31:56):
And thank you to all our listeners and, and viewers if
you're watching us on YouTube.
Thank you again for watching theProperty Edge Podcast.
Do stay tuned for more episodes.
Head to the Property Edgewebsite for more information.
Until the next time, bye-bye.
sonic logo
sonic logo
Rob (00:04):
Today's episode or the property edge podcast.:
Luke Dore (00:07):
there's a phrase in the market, Rob, that we're
hearing, which is no longerFOMO, fear of missing out.
It's now FOBO, which is fear ofbetter options.
People don't want to make thepurchase because they want to
hold off in case there's anotheroption around the corner.
the agent who is most successfulin actually winning that listing
is the one that respondsquickest.
The seller is seeing theresponse that they get as a
(00:29):
reflection of how well buyersare gonna be served, should they
give their business to thatagent if they're slow to respond
to them, then they see that as areflection that they might be
slow to respond to buyers andpotentially buyers might get off
the hook.
Mhm.
Rob (00:43):
Hello and welcome to the Property Edge Podcast where we
talk all things real estate,data tech integrations, AI.
My name's Rob Turnbull, andtoday we're looking at a
different perspective on realestate.
I'm delighted to be joined todayby Luke Dore, who is the
National Customer TrainingManager for REA Group.
(01:04):
Welcome Luke.
Thanks Rob, thanks for having meWell, it's brilliant to have you
on, and I must say when we wereplanning this, there were so
many different rabbit holes wecould have gone down, all right?
But what I wanna focus on today,is that real estate.com really
isn't just a listing portal ifyou change your perspective.
It's also a behavioral databaseof pretty much every single
(01:24):
perspective buyer and vendor inthe country.
And so what I was hoping today,we could have a chinwag about
the, the insights and theunderstanding of those behaviors
and how agents and agencies canbenefit from those insights.
So to start with, who are you,Luke, and what do you do?
Luke Dore (01:43):
I.
I've been at REA now,realestate.com au as a lot of
your audience will know it forover 10 years, which a lifetime
in a, in a digital sense.
So predominantly in customerfacing roles, really Rob dealing
with agents and agencies, NewSouth Wales and, and Victoria.
But I've recently stepped intothis role as national customer
training manager alongsidesomeone who, a lot of people
(02:06):
might know Tara Christen.
She's been industry for 20years.
She's really on the cutting edgeof those digital trends that
we're starting to see.
Whereas role that I'm playing inthe nack that I have is really
joining the dots between whatthe lives of our customers are.
You know, how they integratewith not only real com au, but
(02:26):
also outside of REA resources aswell.
So I think my role is thatconduit between REA and and
their business.
So we do it at scale, a lot ofin-person presentations to a lot
of larger groups events,training sessions, some short
form videos, online contentwebinars, all that sort of
stuff.
So it's, full on Rob.
It's, it's demanding, but it's,you know, it's a hell of a lot
(02:49):
of fun as well.
Rob (02:51):
All right, well let's get some of those insights and those
data-driven understanding ofcustomers out of you today.
Let's start with, you know, inmarketing we use personas,
customer personas, we sort ofgroup people together by similar
behavioral trends.
How do you approach customers atREA group?
Luke Dore (03:08):
We probably don't use personas in the traditional
marketing sense, but that beingsaid, we have such an
advantageous position with wherewe're at because we have such a,
a strong audience that visitsour website every month.
I think at last track there wasover 13 million individuals who
hit realestate com au in onemonth alone.
So it's, you know, effectivelyit's half the population that
(03:31):
are coming.
And when they come, they'respending about 35 minutes on
average, per month per user.
it is a large sample size, andit is a long time that they're
engaging with the site.
So we have that, like I said,that advantageous position being
able to identify exactly wherethey sit in the property cycle
at any given point in time Sowhether they're buyers, renters,
(03:53):
vendors, landlords, some peoplecould be all for at once we
identify those trends and wherepeople are at and then impart
that knowledge back to youraudience that the agents, so, to
give an example, like we have onaverage every month there's
40,000 buyers come to REA andthey tell us, yes, I was the
(04:14):
successful purchaser of thisspecific property.
So what we can then do off theback of that is reverse engineer
all of their.
Behaviors and all their patternsthat they've had on REA and then
that can then power ourintelligence and a lot of the
time use artificial intelligenceto better connect with and
provide value to the real estateprofessionals that are working
(04:36):
in this industry.
So lot of'em have access to thisinformation.
They can start the relationshipearly with these prospective
buyers and real estate directorsand and agents are, are often
asking me, okay, so why do youbother with owners?
Well, that is, that is the realcrux of the reason right there.
It's so that we can track thesepeople, but also so we can
reverse engineer all theirbehavior before they've made the
(04:58):
purchase and then we can providethat intel and help shape really
positive experiences for a lotof agents.
Rob (05:06):
So someone jumps on your site.
How do you differentiate betweensomeone who's just browsing for
fun because they're.
Dreaming of buying a new houseone day and someone who's
browsing with intent.
Luke Dore (05:17):
It's a, it's a good one.
There's a couple of ways.
So I'll start with the easyanswer.
So when it comes to intent,you've got those legitimate,
really, the calls to action,which are, whether it's an email
inquiry or a phone inquiry.
they might click on the mortgagechoice mortgage calculator to
work out whether or not they canactually afford the home.
They might register for aninspection or request an open
(05:37):
for inspection.
So they're the, the legitimatecalls to action, But in terms of
sort of, you know, browsing withintent and the, what we'd call
the inferred signals, that mightbe things like frequency,
duration and consistency.
You know, one user months agoonly been on site for three
minutes.
One of their friends sent theman email or a link.
(05:57):
They clicked on that link.
They opened up the property.
It was a beautiful coastalproperty with the horizon pool
that overlooked at over theocean.
And then we don't hear from thatuser again for another 12
months.
But then in 12 months time, westart to realize that they're on
the site every single day.
They're visiting for over 30minutes when they do come to the
site and they're looking atmaybe core three or four
(06:19):
suburbs, well, we can suggestthat those inferred signals
suggest that they're browsingwith intent.
So frequency, duration andconsistency are, are the things
that we, we sort of measure.
we know that that time in thebuying journey now has really
pushed out.
So traditionally it was 34 weeksfor a buyer from the time they
decided they were gonna buy towhen they did purchase, it's now
(06:40):
blown out to 44 weeks, whichtells us that a lot of people
are doing a lot more research.
They're taking their time.
And there's a phrase in themarket, Rob, that we're hearing,
which is no longer FOMO, fear ofmissing out.
It's now FOBO, which is fear ofbetter options.
People don't want to make thepurchase because they want to
hold off in case there's anotheroption around the corner.
Rob (07:02):
Fear of better options.
I've never heard that onebefore.
I like that.
Luke Dore (07:05):
It definitely is not one of mine.
That's for sure.
Rob (07:08):
Related to that is, is part of that journey would be if you
are a vendor, finding an agent?
I read in one of your or one ofrealestate dot com's brochure
things that nearly two thirds ofsellers start without a
preferred agent, which amazedme.
I just figured everyone had apreferred agent from, from from
past experience or from simplyseeing local branding.
(07:31):
So how can agents influencethat, apart from their regular
brand building exercise thatthey'll be doing day in, day out
anyway in their local area?
How on earth, on realestate.comdo you stick your head up?
Luke Dore (07:44):
Yeah, it's the million dollar question.
I think, like Tara and I speakabout content that agents put
out there that does one of threethings that either attracts
people into their network,nurtures those people that they
currently have in their network,and then it converts those
people that they have to a, atransaction or a listing, if you
like.
So what we're speaking about nowis really that attraction side
(08:05):
of their business.
I think the first step and themost crucial step in attracting
is identifying exactly who thesepeople are, which, unless you've
got a microphone tapped underpeople's kitchen benches in
every house in your market,it's, it's pretty hard.
Right?
It's hard to, it's hard to dothat.
But we do have tools at REA thathelp agents with that, one of
(08:26):
which is if a buyer sendsthrough an email inquiry, they
can also identify whetherthey're looking to sell, and we
will flag that without prosubscribers on REA.
So, although they might not havenecessarily proactively reached
out to sell just yet, thatindicated that they're looking
to sell.
So first step is to identify whothose people are which is the
(08:47):
most crucial one, the secondstep is to provide value.
So helping them with theirpurchase, providing them some
data, some insights, but itcould be as simple as, you know,
if you live and operate in thesame community, are your kids in
the same netball group and areyou going to that netball game
every Saturday morning?
Do you wanna help out with thescoring and the third step is to
convey what a lot of marketersrefer to as the the unique value
(09:11):
proposition.
I like to use the word'superpowers.' What is your
individual'superpower' as anagent, and have you conveyed
that to these people?
It could be that you are reallygood at styling and furnishing.
It could be you're an expertnegotiator.
You might be a social media whizwho has an extended network on
TikToc, facebook, Insta, thewhole lot.
(09:31):
So whatever that is, make sureconvey message to people.
It's funny, I was out with acouple for dinner recently and
they were having a chat aboutthe fact they'd just gone on the
market.
And as I naturally do,, I'm verycurious about how it came to be
that they chose their agent andhe said he'd received the text
message outta the blue from theagent that they've listed with.
It Turns out what had happenedwas.
(09:53):
They'd spoken to another familyas they were dropping their kids
off at school.
That family was friends with theagent and passed the information
on, and very subtly that agentjust sent through a text message
and said,"Hey, this is all ofthe data that I've got about
properties that I've sold in thesame price bracket as yours."
Now, this agent hasn't sold thelion's share of properties in
the market, but they've soldmore properties in that price
(10:15):
bracket than anyone else.
What they've identified there istheir own individual superpower.
They've got that 1.5 to$2million bracket, sown up and
they found a little loophole, alittle way to get in and
actually communicate that topeople.
So yeah, identify who they're,provide value and then convey
your superpower.
Rob (10:34):
And that would be via the profile, the agent profiles on
the platform, right?
Luke Dore (10:38):
Yeah, absolutely.
It can be.
Like you said, two thirds ofpeople have started the process
without an agent in mind.
All doing really is if they'renot coming to realestate.com au
or any other portals straightaway.
They'll google the name thatthey've heard about.
So word of mouth definitelystill plays a part because
people hear the name first, butthen once they.
Google the name, more thanlikely they're going to run into
(11:00):
the REA profile and they'll beable to see all the information
about the agent there.
Rob (11:04):
I do love how offline and online blends, you know, you
bump into someone at school,drop off whatever it is, and
you're gonna research them andyou end up online in a portal or
then you end up on the agencywebsite.
It's amazing how everythingblends together.
So your messaging has to be soconsistent so, so what does,
what does a top, top agentprofile look like on your site?
Luke Dore (11:22):
So majority of them on our site we're finding are
complete.
And we're talking about havingan updated cover image, the
videos are there, and they'recurrent as well, and they really
portray the agent really well.
We've just launched agent reels,which is a, a really cool video
that the agent can use to marketthemselves.
Yep.
So think like what you can seeon Instagram with, with reels on
(11:44):
Instagram.
Agents can do the same thing ontheir REA profile now, which is
really cool.
Social media links are up todate.
The awards that they've won arethere, and they've also got
reviews all of their informationabout themselves.
So that's, that's, you know,the, the good ones.
But if you want to talk aboutlike that top 5% and, you know,
around the country, I'm talkingabout a handful of agents that
(12:05):
I've worked with might beupdating their cover image or
their video maybe once a month,and it will be frequently there
based on new properties that.
They might clearly highlighttheir superpower, and they can
do this in their description oron their video.
So what is the specific thingabout them that sets them apart.
(12:26):
The other thing that some aredoing as well is that they're
copying the reviews that theyget from their clients, and
they're pasting this into theirdescription.
Now whether you're getting thereviews on REA, Google, any
other provider, they're grabbingthose reviews and putting that
into their description.
And we actually now syndicatewith Google as well, which is a,
a really cool thing that it'sgonna make life a lot easier as
(12:47):
well.
Little footnote there foragents.
and then the last thing that,that, again, the top four or 5%
of agents are doing is they'reactually replying to their
clients, once they do submit areview and they are replying
publicly.
So I think a lot of agents getinto the trap of just getting a
review and thinking, that'sgreat.
I've got my review on there.
It's all done.
(13:08):
But we need to put ourselvesinto the shoes of the
prospective vendor.
what they're doing is thatthey're looking at these reviews
as social proof An agent isresponding to people after
they've submitted a review itshows that they're the type of
agent who is still willing towork with people even after the
transaction's done.
They're still willing to engage.
They still have a relationshipoutside of the cut and thrust of
(13:30):
just selling the home.
Rob (13:32):
Yeah, that's one thing I did wanna talk about is, is
those reviews.
Because if you, if I jump onrealestate.com now and look at
any one area, there's gonna be adozen agents who have got a
really high star rating and, 20plus properties sold.
Are reviews just table stakes?
Should you be asking everysingle person you deal with for
a review?
I mean, is it that simple?
Luke Dore (13:54):
It is and absolutely it's not just table stakes.
It is a little, little output,but big impact.
And I say a little output andwell aware that there are a
number of providers out thereand it can be a little bit
cumbersome to ask a past clientleave a review on multiple
different platforms.
I think, I think that's, youknow, not something we wanna be
(14:14):
doing.
And as I mentioned, we nowsyndicate with Google as well,
so we can have one review leftthat goes to both, 76% of
sellers who use online sources,Rob, have told us that they are
using ratings and reviews whenthey're researching agents.
It's over three quarters, sothe, the proof is in the pudding
there.
Again, it's a little bit awkwarddepending on what market you're
(14:35):
in.
I know.
there's some agents who justdon't feel comfortable asking
past clients for reviews.
'cause it's, you know, it's,it's a little bit of an awkward
sort of thing to ask, but itdefinitely does have big
implications based onprospective vendors and what
they see.
And we've gotta compare what wedo in this industry to what
other industries are doing.
We shouldn't be comparingourselves just to other agents.
(14:56):
You look at any other, likehospitality, retail, even book
sales, the beauty industry.
I mean, they've been doing itfor years and doing it really
well.
So the average consumer, they'rethinking the same thing.
They're, they're comparingoutside of industry about their
experience.
I put it to any agent who wantsto question it.
If you are a prospective vendorand you are looking at two
(15:17):
agents side by side and one ofthem had 30 reviews on their
profile and the other had none,my suggestion is it would be a
red flag.
The person who doesn't have anyreviews, particularly given that
sometimes people are taking upto 10 or 11 years until they
sell their property, theyhaven't been used to the
industry.
They know what, what to expect.
It be a red flag if there wereno reviews.
Rob (15:39):
So add request review to your post-sale workflow is
that's what you're saying.
Luke Dore (15:45):
Yeah, well 100%.
And if I can a little bit ofwork as well, once that review
comes through, definitely replyand reply publicly so that.
hits your profile.
Rob (15:55):
Righto.
That's a good intake there.
Now, if, if I'm a if I'm aprospect, I'm jumping on real
estate.com.
I'm looking around, I submit.
'cause I can send a message toan agent, can't i, through
realestate.com.
What's best practice here?
Because I reckon this is I knowa number of agents were pretty
slack in this and they knowthey're slack, but they they got
so much going on.
What does great look like andhow can they make this work for
(16:18):
them?
Luke Dore (16:19):
Yeah, so the first step is immediacy, so making
sure that the response that wehave is immediate.
Now, granted a lot of agentsmight be in meetings, appraisals
at the that an appraisal requestcomes through.
So being able to respond reallyquickly isn't always tangible.
But I, I think you mentionedthat you know that the average
response expectation of a selleris that they are responded to
(16:43):
within 48 hours, which is prettyfast.
And we know that usually it'sonly a two or three horse race.
So on average, the seller issending through a lead request
to 2.5 agents on average so, andwhat we are finding off the back
of that is the agent who is mostsuccessful in actually winning
that listing is the one thatresponds quickest.
(17:05):
The seller is seeing theresponse that they get as a
reflection of how well buyersare gonna be served, should they
give their business to thatagent if they're slow to respond
to them, then they see that as areflection that they might be
slow to respond to buyers andpotentially buyers might get off
the hook.
So immediacy is definitely one.
The second one I would say ispersonalization as well.
So when you ask about what doesgreat look like in terms of lead
(17:27):
responses, personalisation Ithink we do well in terms of the
name of the, the seller or theaddress of the property that
they're sitting on.
But what we need to do is gothat extra mile, start calling
out the unique home features ofthat property.
What are the things that setthat apart?
And communication preferences.
So we know that the consumerswho are over 45, they, they sort
(17:49):
of like a mix.
50% of the time they want aphone call.
50% of the time they want textor email.
Whereas if you are under 45,they only want a phone call 25%
of the time, which means that alot of the time, a text message,
WhatsApp message, and email cansuffice.
And then the last thing I wouldsay is that it is outcome
focused.
(18:09):
So whatever the message you giveis, it needs to be really
focused on what that sellerwants and the outcome that you
as an agent can deliver.
We know that the number one mostimportant quality of an agent,
according to sellers, was thatthe agent truly cares and wants
the best outcome for them, so ifyou can find a way to deliver
that message.
(18:30):
you're definitely going to be inthe box seat.
Right.
So it's finding a way to makesure that someone can, can
answer that prospect or thatappraisal request, even if it's
not with an instant appraisal,it is with a response.
Right?
So it might have to go to the,the office and the office does
it.
Yeah, spot on.
Yeah.
Find a way to get back to themas soon as you possibly can.
Rob (18:46):
Let's now move to a listing.
And if I look at how things havemoved, we've gone from, you
know, photos into videos.
Where are videos going?
How important are videos, andwhat does great again look like?
Luke Dore (19:04):
So aside from images, the most highly engaged with
medium on our platform, we'refinding are videos.
Like if, if a photo, as theysay, tells a thousand words
while a video tells a millionwords.
So in terms of selling theproperty or moving the property,
absolutely.
It's really powerful.
But it's also not just propertyrelated.
We know that it's agent andagency related as well.
(19:27):
And like I mentioned, we've gotagent reels that agents can use.
A lot of consumers are seeingthis as the digital interview,
so their opportunity to get toknow the agent before they have
to show their hand.
And if a video makes an agentmore familiar, we know that
familiarity breeds trust andtrusts breeds a greater
likelihood to invite you intotheir home.
(19:48):
So it's, it's uncomfortable, Iget it.
Like a lot of agents strugglewith video.
But you know, if you can find away to do it.
It, it definitely has impact andthere's some ways that you can
get around it too, so it isn'tso uncomfortable.
You know, like even things likean interview, like this sort of
style can sometimes disarm thefeelings that a lot of people
have of, of nervousness.
Even voiceovers can be reallyimportant.
(20:09):
So if you don't wanna put yourface on there, have a voiceover
over the top of a propertywalkthrough or whatever, and
then subtitles are really aswell Rob.
What we're seeing from consumersis that over 80% of videos
aren't watched with the soundon, you know, they're on a train
or they're sitting on the couchnext to their spouse, and they
don't wanna have the sound on,so they're watching it with
(20:30):
subtitles.
If you can do a voiceover andput subtitles across the bottom,
it'll help relay the messagethat you wanna convey.
Rob (20:38):
Yeah, that's a good take there.
It's about quality of video.
You know, you can, you can pay afew grand and get a pro to come
in and, and create amazing videoof a house and then chuck over
some mood music, or you getyourself a gimbal and you walk
around and, and talk about thehouse yourself.
Have you got any data or anystats about whether one works
significantly more than anotherbecause if a vendor doesn't
(21:00):
wanna pay for a, a high-endvideo, is it that much worse
just to have the agent wanderaround and show the property
themselves?
Luke Dore (21:08):
So in terms of attracting the buyer pool,
absolutely not.
In actual fact, we've found thatauthenticity is the thing that
more people are engaging with.
As opposed to you know, highlypolished, high production value
videos.
That being said, like everyagent agency, whether you are
part of a bigger franchise or aboutique, there is a brand
(21:29):
reputation to uphold.
So you don't want to do that tothe detriment of your brand.
And I know that there's a lot offranchises with strict
guidelines around the way thatvideos are shot.
I think if you can still do thatand maintain the authenticity of
message, then that'll go a longway.
Rob (21:48):
I I feel there's, there's some agencies that actually
invest some of their own moneyinto those videos, and it's well
worth it because the productionvalue increases enormously,
doesn't it?
Luke Dore (21:57):
Yeah, absolutely they do.
And I know like, like I said,we've got a captive audiences
like real estate is an industrythat whether you are selling or
buying or neither of thosethings, people are so captivated
by it.
They wanna know, they wantsticky beak about the property
around the corner, what theysold for.
So agents have this captiveaudience at their fingertips
(22:17):
that they can engage with.
It's not like you need to go outand find this audience.
People are genuinely very keento, know about what's happening
in the market.
Rob (22:26):
Yeah, well, so, so what's happening next in this space?
You know, photos, videos, longdescriptions.
How else can how else isrealestate.com gonna help
vendors market their propertyand help help buyers understand
the unique nature of each ofthose properties?
Luke Dore (22:42):
We move pretty quick, Rob, and I'm happy to say that
it's only a few weeks away thatwe are gonna launch what we're
referring to as propertywalkthroughs.
Which are short, sharp videosthat agents can take simply in
the palm of their hand through aphone and walk through that
listing and pop it up on the,the listing, whether it's online
through an app or on thedesktop.
(23:03):
So they're gonna be really cool.
It'll give, like I said, everyagent an opportunity to be able
to do it.
I think the benefit for theagent is, it gives them the
opportunity to showcasethemselves and the listing for
the vendor.
It's a really dynamic view ofthe property that you, you can't
necessarily get through justphotos and for the buyer, it's a
more realistic representation ofthe home.
(23:24):
So I think everyone wins withthe fact that, yeah, we're
launching these propertywalkthrough videos from the 1st
of July.
Rob (23:32):
Righto.
Okay, well, there's somethingnew.
Let's talk about ads.
Now, you know, there's the payto play space, do properties
that rank the top of the list,do they sell better?
Is their data to back that up?
Now, you're probably gonna sayyes'cause you want agents to
spend their money with you,right?
But if I'm looking for aproperty in suburb A and you are
constantly showing me one insuburb C, am I gonna suddenly
(23:54):
start looking at that property?
Or if I look at it once and youkeep showing me that property,
am I gonna end up buying it?
What, what does the data show?
Luke Dore (24:01):
So I will talk to the data because without the data,
I'm just another person with anopinion and the data tells us
that yes, both of thosecategories are correct.
So when you refer to the, at thetop of the search results, what
we refer to with that is thePremier Plus listing, which is
the.
The premium, you know, the bestoption that you have in terms of
listing.
know, and we've had this inmarket for a couple of years
(24:23):
now, so across tens of thousandsof listings, so there's a really
large sample size.
We know that Premier Pluslistings will sell 12 days
faster than a normal premierlisting, which is the, the tier
below.
Now part of that listing packageas well is that the.
vendor and the agent have theability once within the campaign
(24:43):
to push a button and push thatproperty back to the very top of
the search results, right?
So when a consumer does asearch, it sits at the very top.
Now, they can only do that oncewithin the campaign, but the
week after they do that, what'swhat's called a listing bump.
After they do that listing bump,we see 105% more page views in
that week following.
So twice the amount of pageviews and we know the Premier
(25:06):
Plus listings as a result ofgetting more page views, they
get 20% more inquiries.
So, generally speaking, moreinquiries means more
competition, and morecompetition means a higher sell
price.
Rob (25:20):
So the pay to play space does work.
Luke Dore (25:23):
Yeah, absolutely it does.
And to touch on the other, youknow, part you mentioned whether
if you're in a different suburband you're being enticed with
other properties as a buyer,does that, does it actually
entice you to view them?
We know that there's like theactive audience who are
proactively coming to the siteand they've got their core three
or four suburbs that they'relooking at.
But then you've also got thatpassive audience who aren't
(25:44):
necessarily as proactive, but ifthe right option came across to
them, then they would be willingto engage.
Now, whether or not that personis the eventual buyer or not, is
kind of irrelevant.
All that, the vendor isconcerned with.
The agent is concerned with.
He's getting the highest saleprice.
And I don't think, you know,there's no buyer in the land who
(26:04):
wakes up in the morning Rob andsays, you know what?
I'm gonna pay$150,000 abovemarket value for this property.
And yet a lot of buyers end updoing that.
And the reason they do that isbecause of the competition that
it drove them to actually drivethat higher sale price.
So absolutely out of areamarketing definitely works to
create competition, and thecompetition creates the higher
(26:25):
sale price.
Rob (26:27):
Right.
I wanted to talk to you aboutai.
Now every single company in theworld is playing dabbling or
not, but pretending they are,what are REA group doing and
what, what's gonna benefitagents and agencies in the near
future.
Luke Dore (26:42):
I'll start with what REA is doing in this space to
start with.
And the first is that we'redelivering a more personalized
experience to our consumers.
who come to our app and ourdesktop device now.
And what I mean by that is ifyou think about the way that
Netflix or Spotify will tellyou, Rob, what sort of music you
might be interested or what tvshows you might be interested
(27:03):
in.
We are preempting the types ofproperties that consumers might
be interested in based on theirsearch.
We are preempting the types ofagents they might be interested
in based on their search aswell.
And we're giving a homepageexperience that can literally
have hundreds of thousands of,of different iterations based on
what that consumer's previousexperience might be.
(27:24):
So definitely playing in thatspace.
I mentioned before the fact thatwe reverse engineer when someone
claims that they purchased aproperty.
So we can also provide data toagents, and this starts to blend
into how agencies using itreally well.
But we can provide data toagents that suggests that as a
consumer, this person is at thelate stages in terms of being
(27:45):
ready to buy or ready to sell.
And their propensity to wannabuy or propensity to wanna sell
is a certain score out of 10.
And that, again, is based ontheir behavior on our website.
So lot of artificialintelligence that powers that to
get those results through toagents.
You know, there's things thatare a little bit rogue that
agents are doing as well, thatthat work really well.
(28:06):
One of those is the, theconversation that they have to
have with vendors midway througha campaign that might not be
going so well if they need tohave a conversation with that
vendor about reducing the price.
What I'm finding they're doingis go to, whether it's our
comparable market analysisreport or any data, and they'll
just copy all of the data.
(28:27):
They'll paste it into chat, GPTor whatever they're using and
say, you use this data to crafta price reduction compensation
for me to have with this vendorof this property at this
address?
And it's spinning out the mostpolished diplomatic responses
and whether it's letters orconversations that they can then
(28:47):
go and have with their vendorsit's making them look like
absolute experts.
I think, which is a really coolway to do it.
And it means that, theconversation is, is backed on
data and it's based back on factas opposed to it just being the
agent's opinion that we need toreduce the price of the
property.
Rob (29:06):
In the future, I know agents and agencies are
concerned, AI is gonna becomemore and more of a a customer
touchpoint, taking away theface-to-face.
How do you see this playing out?
Is there a point where.
Yeah, people want thatpersonalized touch,?
I mean, realestate.com is alistings portal.
It is impersonal.
(29:28):
How can you make that morepersonal?
And you're saying that the AInow is driving a lot of the
content, the dynamic content thecustomers do see.
How else can you see thisrolling out over the next few
years?
A really open-ended question foryou.
Luke Dore (29:41):
No, I like it.
I, I think that it's gonna helpreally to preempt the types of
consumers that might be ready tolist.
I, I think, which, again, ifyou're a consumer, you, you're a
little bit nervous about thatbecause you're thinking, okay,
how do, how do people know aboutthis?
But I think it's gonna helpagents connect the dots there to
those consumers who might beready to list.
(30:02):
I also think that based ontrends, we are gonna be able to
provide better economicpredictions about properties,
what a property is gonna cost,or how much it's gonna make,
that that buyer is really, youknow, still the most important
thing when they're, when they'relooking to purchase.
So I think it's gonna helpagents have, you know, better
(30:23):
conversations around economicpredictions as well.
But think it's gonna help themto cherry pick the right buyers.
I think there lot.
Call it peripheral noise orperipheral work that agents have
to do at the moment to try andfind that right buyer.
think AI is definitely gonnahelp'em cut through to the chase
and get the person that theyneed to get the deal done and
(30:43):
start negotiating a lot earlierand negotiating more
importantly.
With the right person.
So in a nutshell, yeah,absolutely personalization is,
is here to stay.
And I think it's only gonnaenhance it with ai, and I think
it's gonna fast track theirability as in the agent's
ability to have the rightconversations at the right time
with the right people, asopposed to a lot of wishy-washy
(31:04):
tyre kicking conversations.
Rob (31:06):
Yeah, that's fair.
That's a fair point and I thinkthat's a brilliant point also to
end it there, Luke, this hasbeen a really fascinating.
Conversation.
You know, there's so manydifferent little segues we, we
can take when it comes to this,but you've really created some
value here showing people howthey can improve their own
performance in realestate.com.
But also just generally I'velearned a lot about how you
(31:29):
review and understand customersand how you reverse engineer
things, which I think is reallyvaluable.
And, you know, as, as ourindustry evolves.
realestate.com will continue tobe a giant in it.
And it's brilliant to see howmany tools that realestate.com
is putting out there to helpagents list and, and vendors
list their pro their propertiesand really get the best price
(31:50):
possible.
So thank you so much for yourtime today, Luke.
Luke Dore (31:53):
My pleasure, Rob.
Thanks.
for having me on.
Rob (31:56):
And thank you to all our listeners and, and viewers if
you're watching us on YouTube.
Thank you again for watching theProperty Edge Podcast.
Do stay tuned for more episodes.
Head to the Property Edgewebsite for more information.
Until the next time, bye-bye.
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