In this episode of the Property Edge Podcast, Nikki Katz, a business broker with a focus on rent roll sales, discusses strategies for positioning real estate agencies for successful acquisitions in a consolidating market.
Katz shares insights on the importance of data, system integration, and compliance for agency sales, while also advising individual agents on building portable career assets. From valuing rent rolls to leveraging AI in agency operations, this episode offers comprehensive guidance for principals and agents aiming to thrive in today's competitive real estate landscape.
00:00 Introduction and Welcome
01:12 Meet Nikki Katz: Australia's Top Business Broker
01:42 Understanding Business Acquisitions
06:35 The Importance of Data and System Integration
13:45 Building a Portable Career in Real Estate
17:36 Adapting to Change and Technology
20:00 The Impact of AI on Real Estate
22:01 Key Takeaways and Conclusion
Visit www.propertyedge.app/the-property-edge-podcast to see other episodes, see episode summaries and read transcripts.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
sonic logo
Rob (00:04):
Today's episode or the property edge podcast.
Nikki Katz (00:07):
If I said to a principal, can you tell me how
many active tenants you have?
How many have, have you beenwith you for over two years?
What's the average rent perproperty?
If you can't understand thesequestions accurately and fairly
instantly, then you have a dataproblem that needs to be fixed.
If you go to one buyer and youset your price, that's the price
you're gonna get for youragency.
(00:27):
Whereas, if you go out to marketand I have a plethora of buyers
for a particular rent roll, thenthat edge of competitive spirit
kicks in and, and people usuallyget over and above asking
prices.
Mhm.
rob_1_06-20-2025_130548 (00:43):
Hello and welcome to the Property Edge
Podcast.
My name's Rob Turnbull, andtoday we're looking at business
acquisitions and we're lookingat it in a way that's gonna
interest principles, owners andagents.
So in an era of industryconsolidation, we're gonna
discover what agencies can do tomake buyers really get excited
(01:03):
about them.
Understand what individualagents can potentially do to
build portable career assetsthat can travel with them.
And joining me today is someonewho knows this more than anyone
in the country.
She is Australia's businessbroker of the year.
Not once but five times.
Last year she was inducted intothe REISA Hall of Fame, and this
(01:27):
year the first woman to ever beinducted into the REIA Hall of
Fame.
She is the rent roll broker.
She is of course, the wonderfulNikki Katz welcome.
Nikki Katz (01:37):
Hello, how are you?
Thank you for inviting me ontothe show.
rob_1_06-20-2025_130548 (01:41):
It is brilliant to have you on.
I know our audience are gonnaget a lot of value out of this,
whether, whether you're anindividual agent, whether you
are a principal, thinking aboutselling, or a principal thinking
about buying today, this episodeis gonna cover off everything.
To start with Nikki, can youjust give the audience a bit of
a, an overview of who you areand exactly what you do.
Nikki Katz (02:01):
I'm happy to do that.
I'm Nikki Katz, director of theRent Roll Broker, and I've spent
13 years specializing in thesale of all kinds of business.
Businesses, but including rentroll property management
agencies across Australia.
I'm the director of SouthAustralia and WA currently, and
we've got other agents acrossthe country.
So I've spent lots of times justdoing transactions from
(02:24):
everything from small boutiqueagencies to major consolidation
plays.
And today we wanted to think,dive into something that.
most principles awake at night.
How to position your agency notjust to survive, but to thrive
in the era of this industry,consolidation, which is most
definitely happening.
(02:45):
So whether you're a principal,thinking about your exit
strategy or an agent wonderingabout how foolproof your
business.
Today's conversation hopefullywill help people to understand
building assets and the realmeasure and value of them.
rob_1_06-20-2025_13 (02:59):
Absolutely.
Well, starting on transactionsthen, how many agency
transactions would you typicallysee in a year and any sort of
particular trends that you mightbe noticing?
Nikki Katz (03:08):
We do lots of transactions.
There's an awful situation withSouth Australia where people
like to do these.
private off market deals neverreally understand it because to
be honest, if you go to onebuyer and you set your price,
that's the price you're gonnaget for your agency.
Whereas if you go out to marketand I have, you know, a plethora
(03:30):
of buyers for might be up to 15,20, 40 buyers.
For a particular rent roll, thenthat edge of competitive spirit
kicks in and, and people usuallyget over and above asking prices
and are quite, are usually verypleasantly surprised by the
outcome with that.
So it really just depends.
We don't get to do as many as wewould like to do on the market
(03:52):
because as I say, there's an oldadage of why would I pay a
broker commission to dosomething that is my job?
But then I go back to them and Isay, but you would not let any
of your clients try and selltheir houses themselves without
having an agent.
It just, so it's kind of thisreally mixed messaging that we
have with principals at themoment and we're trying to
(04:12):
reeducate them that do not leavemoney on the table, get it onto
the market, get that equity edgegoing, and and you'll definitely
be a happy chappy when you doso.
rob_1_06-20-2025_130548 (04:22):
And, and just, just covering you off,
you know, your awardsdemonstrate you're very
effective, but what makes youpersonally so effective?
Nikki Katz (04:30):
Well, let's explain, start explaining what I do.
I am a broker who specializes infacilitating the sales, so
therefore.
I'm everything from a forensicaccountant, data analyst,
strategic planner, and then rollall that into one.
That's what business brokers do,so we do a whole load of things
(04:52):
that are not seen the same wayas selling a house, for example.
We're analyzing data and thatdata constantly changes and
moves.
So I always say when a house issold, it's got four walls and a
roof, right?
And it always, from the minuteit goes on to market, it stays
exactly the same.
But we are selling somethingthat's a moving entity.
It's constantly changing whetheryou're losing rent roll, getting
(05:15):
new clients, you're growing yourbuilding.
And so we constantly got toupdate that on an ongoing basis.
So that's what I do.
rob_1_06-20-2025_130548 (05:23):
Well, so if we look at that, when you
are valuing an agency foracquisition, what's the first
thing that you look, look atother than rent roll?
Maybe you could explain why orwhat makes rent roll
interesting.
But then what are the otherthings apart from rent roll that
interest you?
Nikki Katz (05:38):
Well, the whole mechanism behind the business is
that rent roles are the, what Iwould say, the bread and butter
income, the, the, the lifebloodof an agency where it pays all
the bills, it cap captures allthe, all the all the, ongoing.
Revenue that happens on aweekly, monthly basis.
So that's what I would say isthe bread and butter, and then
(05:59):
the sales on top of that is theicing on the cake.
Right?
But the rent rolls aretransacting for really high
volumes right now because of thesustainability of them.
Banks like them, there'ssecurity in the tenure of them.
They stay there.
Most people don't change land,agents unless you really make a
mess of something.
(06:19):
They generally, it's a bit likeyour bank.
You'll have the odd bugbear withyour management agent.
But at the end of the day, youtend to stick with someone you
know, and someone that you'vebuilt up a relationship with
rob_1_06-20-2025_130548 (06:30):
What's the first thing you tell a
principal who wants to sell hisor her agency in 12 months time?
Nikki Katz (06:35):
they need to get into the systemization of it
because at the end of the day,the more professional you are in
your setup, the easier it is forsomeone to do their due
diligence on the business.
Or the rent roll and thenunderstand what they're paying
for.
And if it's too muddy, I, I callit, if it's too murky, there's
too many ifs and buts, peoplewill shy away from taking that
(06:58):
on.
There's a lot of moneyexchanging here, so you have to
make sure that you're doing itwith credibility.
I mean, where we get tactical iswhen we see agencies missing out
on big premiums because theyhaven't got their data of what I
say, the ducks in a row.
They haven't got all of that atthe readiness.
To be ready for market.
It's a bit like going and doinga renovation on your house
(07:19):
before you put it to market sothat it, it, it features better.
We just need to make sure thatthe efficiencies are there.
So that would be like, you know.
Making sure that you havecapacity for growth, making sure
you've got occupationalefficiencies and checking out
your risk profile and makingsure that that isn't high risk.
(07:39):
And just being determined byyour, the quality of your data
and your tech stack, and makingsure that you've got everything
up to date.
The first thing I would do wouldbe database integrity.
So making sure that you knowright now.
If I said to a principal, canyou tell me how many active
tenants you have?
How many have, have you beenwith you for over two years?
(08:00):
What's the average rent perproperty?
If you can't understand thesequestions accurately and fairly
instantly, then you have a dataproblem that needs to be fixed.
Another thing is systemintegration.
Is your property able to beintegrated with another acqui
acquirer?
So do you have good systems andare you running about jumping
from system to system all thetime?
(08:21):
Instead of having something thathas a workflow with it?
And that would stop someinefficiencies, both with time
and with risk.
And the other thing iscompliance.
It's a really big thing todemonstrate that you've got a
compliance history these daysand that you're doing everything
right, audit trails.
On all properties, all of thatmechanism will help you be
stronger to the market and get abetter result.
rob_1_06-20-2025_130548 (08:43):
So, so, I mean, rent rolls can often be
attached to a sales agencybusiness or detached.
When, when it's attached to asale agency business, how much
value is put on the, the sizeof, say the CRM, the prospect
database, and the quality ofthat database.
Nikki Katz (09:01):
We're looking at everything.
We're looking at the principle,the touch points of the
principle.
The staff that are there, thekey staff on that, revenue
streams of the staff.
It then just blows out to havelots and lots of points that
will make the difference betweena good valuation and bad
valuation.
rob_1_06-20-2025_130548 (09:18):
when, when you look at some of the
agencies that have been up forsale and, and others that will
be going up for sale, it'sgenerally you know, the
principle is the, is the lead.
They built it up and now they'relooking to, to move on, pass it
on to the next person.
But of course, they've done itoff their, their gut and they
have a small sales team thatthey've trained up themselves.
So what you're saying is if thatis a, a course that they're
(09:40):
looking at, creating somedocumented procedures is a real
game changer for them.
Nikki Katz (09:48):
Absolutely.
Just anything that's a businesswhere you have to look at in the
eyes of the purchaser and whatthey need to do, a nice, smooth
transition or acquisition ofsmaller agency into larger
agency.
You have to be able to provideas much, and of course you've
(10:09):
gotta get through due diligenceas well.
So this is all important in thesales process that you have to
make sure that your duediligence is gonna stack up.
So yes, I mean, databaseintegrity system integration,
compliance, documentation, allof these things are really
important.
rob_1_06-20-2025_130548 (10:25):
Well here, here's, here's one for
you.
How do you a value, aprinciple's personal brand if
that principle's exiting as partof the sale, or how do you
manage that?
Because surely someone who's gota big character in an area has a
long track record in their areaand they're looking to retire,
their personal brand would bevery much connected to the
(10:46):
success of that agency.
How do you work with that?
Nikki Katz (10:49):
Personal brands are slightly different.
I would be looking at theagency's branding and what they
offer to the marketplace ratherthan the principle.
I deal with rent rollsspecifically, and it's property
managers that are on theday-to-day.
Most of, and I say this andyou're not all gonna shout at me
down the, down the the, thepodcast, but lot of principals
(11:12):
do not go near the propertymanagement.
They tend to err on the salesside of the agency and they
leave a really gun propertymanager to run that show with
their are other counterpartstaff.
So, it's funny, I ask principalsall the time, if I can have the
data and they go kind of sheetwhite on me and say, I don't
know how to get that.
(11:32):
And I say, well, you have to askthe property manager to download
it for you.
And they say, but I don't wantthem to think that I might be
selling.
And I say, well, you are theprincipal.
You're allowed to ask for anyinformation about your business
that you see fit.
So you just go in and say you'redoing a review on everything, on
the business wholeheartedly, andand ask for that information.
Principles.
(11:52):
It is hard when somebody isretiring and they're well known
in the industry, but generally,whatever reputation they have
with the industry should then beable to be carried across with
the rent roll of the agencymoving forward.
If they're an agency and have avery good reputation for
excellent service, then thatshould be a, a buying signal for
(12:13):
a buyer as well, becausehopefully they're, they're
buying a part of that.
We can do an ease and an easeout of liability so they can
stay with the business for aperiod of time and do a, a sort
of diminished role as they go.
And I quite like that.
Transitions are really good whenyou don't, you know, it isn't
just a kind of knee jerkreaction.
(12:34):
It's somebody where theprincipal might go from five
days a week to four days a week,to three days a week and go into
retirement in a slow mode, thatway allows everything to
transact in a nice, smoothmanner.
But that's not always the case.
Doesn't always happen.
Rob (12:50):
Just as an aside, does an independently branded agency
earn a different price point toone that might be assigned or
part of a, a national franchise.
Nikki Katz (12:59):
No.
It's not based on theirpositioning, there might be some
kudos in into that, but as faras rent roll transactions are
concerned I'm totally onlylooking at what, what the
transactional value of thatbusiness is and then moving it
across into a different hand.
So you do have a consolidationmarket at the moment where you
(13:20):
have a lot of the groups or thelarger scale real estate agents
who will just try and grab everyrent roll that's coming onto the
market because they're going,they're doing the numbers,
they're going for growth.
And of course you can do organicgrowth, which takes a lot longer
or you can do acquisition growthand that's a faster way to move
up and, and and turn thatrevenue up a notch.
(13:42):
So that's kind of what Ispecialize in.
rob_1_06-20-2025_130548 (13:45):
Well that, lets now move to an
individual agent, whetherthey're a property manager or a
sales agent.
What, what portable assetsseparate just a run of the mill
agent with one that reallystands out and the other
agencies would want to chasedown.
Nikki Katz (13:59):
Yeah, well, let's flip that perspective, right?
If you're an individual agentwatching a consolidation in the
market happening, you might bewondering, how do I transport
myself?
How is my career portable towhat's going on in the industry?
And I think the answer is thatyou do have to look at valuable,
transferable resources that youcan enhance the value regardless
(14:21):
of where you work.
So I think, sales agents haveto, and, and property managers
have to think of their careerlike a business within a
business.
They have to understand they'rerunning their own business and
therefore profiling themselvesis really important as well as
the agency.
So, for example, I run a companycalled Business Sales Agency,
(14:42):
which is my overriding company,and I have a couple of different
brands within that, but I alsohave my own website.
Out with those companies whichthey know about, which is
promoting, it's my show real.
It's me showing them what mycapabilities are as an operator,
and I can't understand why wedon't have more of that.
(15:02):
So you've really got to positionyourself, your personal
database.
If it's is your agency'sdatabase, obviously that's,
that's their records, but you'vealso gotta build your own
records of relationships,preferences, and interactions
that you've got with people andbuild compliancy around that
and, and consistency aroundthat.
So you've got valuable contacts,and then you need a digital
(15:25):
brand.
So your social media presence isreally important.
You need some content creationand some thought leadership and
doing things where you becomethat go to expert in your field
of wherever, whatever it is thatyou specialize in is really
important.
Doing events like this, sopodcasts and writing, blog and
(15:46):
doing your perception on themarket and, and, and being
interactive with your market isreally, really important.
And staying on trend for any,you know, arrangements that you
might be looking at as far ascareer enhancement is concerned,
and then your referral network,other agents, service providers,
past clients who know and trustyou, who you've done a good job
(16:09):
for in the past.
That's like an insurance policyfor growth as far as you as an
individual.
So as an agent asset, you wantto be looking at your personal
brand.
You want social media, you wantto create content.
So that builds your authority asthe go-to person referral
network development, and thankyour referrals.
You know, be, be great, gratefuland gracious to anyone who does
(16:33):
refer into your network.
Professional development andcertification.
People really admire if you godown the route of, of, of
self-development and you willput yourself through further
courses, whether that's an MBA,it might not even be something,
it might be business courses ormanagement courses or something,
but you really have to developyourself.
(16:54):
Like you are developing, if youwere, if you were a business,
technology skills, massive rightnow, the more you are investing
in that, and we're gonna comeonto AI in a minute and
basically do a personal brandaudit.
Look at who you are.
Sometimes it's quite interestingto Google yourself and find out
what people say out there aboutyou and have an understanding of
(17:16):
what you're offering out therein the marketplace so that you
can pick that up and move quitestrategically, even if you're
moving up or down in differentdepartments or within different
companies.
Different agencies.
rob_1_06-20-2025_130548 (17:29):
That is a good answer.
Thank you for that.
There's some real lessons inthere for for anyone really in
business, irrespective ofindustry I think.
If we're looking at, at teams,how do buyers assess whether an
agency's teams will adapt wellto new systems or to change?
Is that part of the conversationthat you have with them?
Nikki Katz (17:49):
it's a real pain point, isn't it?
I mean, one of the biggestchallenges I see when agencies
try to upgrade their tech is theteam adoption.
I.
And and knowing whether thatthat integration is going to
work you have agents who arenaturally gifted at digital
movement.
Generally, the younger they are,the quicker they are to pick up
any new things that you put in.
(18:09):
Whereas you'll have your olderdemographic who still want to
work with pieces of paper,right?
So the agency succeeds at techimplementation, not just by
buying software but also thechange management processes
within that.
So, you know, its all very wellhaving a CRM that's got 47
amazing features, but if peopledon't know how to work it,
(18:30):
they're not gonna get the bestout of that.
So I think it's about trainingchampions and not crowds I think
you have to work quite hard withyour team and, and work out
who's your your tech savvymembers of the team, and maybe
then make them the advocate forsomebody who's less tech tech
savvy and have some peerteachers within your environment
(18:50):
that can help jog people along.
But I, I think the, the biggestchallenge really is the
diversification of that we havewithin our industry.
In, you've got the Young Gen Zs,and then you've got the, the
older.
Manager, principals who dothings a certain way and always
have done and feel comfortablecontinuing to do it like that.
(19:11):
And then you get the young kidscoming in saying, what are you
kidding?
rob_1_06-20-2025_130548 (19:15):
Yeah.
And we, we see that with withthe adoption of different
platforms that get released byagencies.
The management love the idea ofit, and there's, there's always
a few people that are thechampions and then there's a lot
of people that are resistant.
And that's in any business.
To be fair, it's not limited toreal estate.
Nikki Katz (19:29):
It is in any business.
I've come across things inbusinesses where people just
haven't been able to cope by anew owner, and they've had to
move along only just becausethey, I, I believe it's a shut
brain mentality though.
I think if you want to learn,you will learn.
And I think there are people whohave shut down that concept of,
I'm too old to grasp this now,or I'm not interested in doing
(19:51):
it a different way.
And I, and I think that's apersonality thing.
Unfortunately, you can't do verymuch about that.
rob_1_06-20-2025_130548 (20:00):
No.
Well, speaking of things,changing AI and its impact I
mean we're still at early, earlydays with ai, but how do you
think AI will impact agencyvalue over the next few years?
Nikki Katz (20:13):
Well, ai, it's the elephant in the room, isn't it?
Artificial intelligence.
So I'm seeing AI impact realestate transactions in lots of
different ways.
I'm not sure I'm maybe going offpiste here when I talk about it,
but, you've got wave one, whichis just the automation of all
your routines and your generaltasks and getting them all
(20:34):
systemized and and integratedand whatever.
And then you've got wave two,which is the predicting of the
analytics.
AI now being able to predictwhich properties may have
maintenance issues, whichtenants are likely to renew,
what increases the market willbare and all that competitive
edge stuff emerging.
And then you've got wave three,which is your decision support.
(20:57):
So AI can evaluate investmentopportunities, recommend
portfolio strategies, evenmarket prediction of movement in
the market.
And so there are so manydifferent things now that are
coming out of ai.
The question is whether AI willimpact your business.
And I think data quality withai, I think sometimes you need
(21:17):
far easier know how to ask thequestions with AI to get the
quality that you're looking forof the data.
And I think this is where peopleare going wrong, where they're
not seeing it as an evolvinglearning tool.
They're seeing it as somethingthat they pop a random question
in and they expect a, a, arandom answer.
Sometimes when I'm doing thingsfor research or whatever, I'll
(21:39):
put that question back in againin several different ways.
And then take, because it's amachine, it will give you the
answers that you're looking forbased on quality of the
question.
And so I think it's really aboutknowing what prompts to use to
get the best out of ai.
But yeah, it's definitelyhappening.
(22:00):
It's already making a difference
rob_1_06-20-2025_130548 (22:01):
Well, we've covered a fair bit.
Have you got any key takeawaysthat you'd love for agents and
principles to go away fromtoday's episode with?
Nikki Katz (22:12):
Oh, well yes, of course I have.
I can not stop talking I'mScottish, right?
Lemme leave you with this.
Whether you're a principalpreparing for an exit or an
agent building a career, thefundamentals haven't changed:
it's relationships, it's serviceand quality and it's market
knowledge.
They're still hugely important.
But the multiple effect nowcomes in when you leverage the
(22:33):
data and the technology on topof that knowledge and skills and
service and quality of serviceand relationship building.
So, I would say there's threethings that I can give you as a
takeaway.
First, audit your data quality.
Access comprehensive informationabout key relationships and
(22:53):
transactions.
Secondly, assess your tech stackintegration.
Are your systems workingharmoniously together or against
each other?
And thirdly, start buildingportable assets where you're
cleaning up your personaldatabase, creating valuable
content and strengthening yournetwork.
So the takeaways are just tomake sure that you are doing the
(23:17):
very, very best out therebecause the cream always rises
to the top and it doesn't matterhow good AI is or how good your
last sale is, at the end of theday, it's consistent quality
performances that win through.
And I think that's probablyenough for me.
rob_1_06-20-2025_130548 (23:33):
That was brilliant.
Thank you so much I, I'velearned a lot today.
And listeners, if you haven'tlearned anything, you need to
re-listen because you haven'tlistened properly.
That was brilliant, Nikki.
We do appreciate that.
If you wanna find Nikki, you canfind Nikki online search,
N-I-K-K-I-K-A-T-Z.
That's Nikki Katz.
Nikki, thank you so much foryour time today.
Nikki Katz (23:53):
welcome.
It's been a pleasure to join youand thank you for inviting me to
be part of this podcast.
rob_1_06-20-2025_130548 (23:58):
Well, it has been a real learning
experience.
Thank you.
And, and folks I'll put all ofNikki's details in the show
notes from the Property Edgepodcast.
Please do have a look atpropertyedge.app for other
episodes, and until the nextepisode, farewell.
sonic logo
sonic logo
Rob (00:04):
Today's episode or the property edge podcast.
Nikki Katz (00:07):
If I said to a principal, can you tell me how
many active tenants you have?
How many have, have you beenwith you for over two years?
What's the average rent perproperty?
If you can't understand thesequestions accurately and fairly
instantly, then you have a dataproblem that needs to be fixed.
If you go to one buyer and youset your price, that's the price
you're gonna get for youragency.
(00:27):
Whereas, if you go out to marketand I have a plethora of buyers
for a particular rent roll, thenthat edge of competitive spirit
kicks in and, and people usuallyget over and above asking
prices.
Mhm.
rob_1_06-20-2025_130548 (00:43):
Hello and welcome to the Property Edge
Podcast.
My name's Rob Turnbull, andtoday we're looking at business
acquisitions and we're lookingat it in a way that's gonna
interest principles, owners andagents.
So in an era of industryconsolidation, we're gonna
discover what agencies can do tomake buyers really get excited
(01:03):
about them.
Understand what individualagents can potentially do to
build portable career assetsthat can travel with them.
And joining me today is someonewho knows this more than anyone
in the country.
She is Australia's businessbroker of the year.
Not once but five times.
Last year she was inducted intothe REISA Hall of Fame, and this
(01:27):
year the first woman to ever beinducted into the REIA Hall of
Fame.
She is the rent roll broker.
She is of course, the wonderfulNikki Katz welcome.
Nikki Katz (01:37):
Hello, how are you?
Thank you for inviting me ontothe show.
rob_1_06-20-2025_130548 (01:41):
It is brilliant to have you on.
I know our audience are gonnaget a lot of value out of this,
whether, whether you're anindividual agent, whether you
are a principal, thinking aboutselling, or a principal thinking
about buying today, this episodeis gonna cover off everything.
To start with Nikki, can youjust give the audience a bit of
a, an overview of who you areand exactly what you do.
Nikki Katz (02:01):
I'm happy to do that.
I'm Nikki Katz, director of theRent Roll Broker, and I've spent
13 years specializing in thesale of all kinds of business.
Businesses, but including rentroll property management
agencies across Australia.
I'm the director of SouthAustralia and WA currently, and
we've got other agents acrossthe country.
So I've spent lots of times justdoing transactions from
(02:24):
everything from small boutiqueagencies to major consolidation
plays.
And today we wanted to think,dive into something that.
most principles awake at night.
How to position your agency notjust to survive, but to thrive
in the era of this industry,consolidation, which is most
definitely happening.
(02:45):
So whether you're a principal,thinking about your exit
strategy or an agent wonderingabout how foolproof your
business.
Today's conversation hopefullywill help people to understand
building assets and the realmeasure and value of them.
rob_1_06-20-2025_13 (02:59):
Absolutely.
Well, starting on transactionsthen, how many agency
transactions would you typicallysee in a year and any sort of
particular trends that you mightbe noticing?
Nikki Katz (03:08):
We do lots of transactions.
There's an awful situation withSouth Australia where people
like to do these.
private off market deals neverreally understand it because to
be honest, if you go to onebuyer and you set your price,
that's the price you're gonnaget for your agency.
Whereas if you go out to marketand I have, you know, a plethora
(03:30):
of buyers for might be up to 15,20, 40 buyers.
For a particular rent roll, thenthat edge of competitive spirit
kicks in and, and people usuallyget over and above asking prices
and are quite, are usually verypleasantly surprised by the
outcome with that.
So it really just depends.
We don't get to do as many as wewould like to do on the market
(03:52):
because as I say, there's an oldadage of why would I pay a
broker commission to dosomething that is my job?
But then I go back to them and Isay, but you would not let any
of your clients try and selltheir houses themselves without
having an agent.
It just, so it's kind of thisreally mixed messaging that we
have with principals at themoment and we're trying to
(04:12):
reeducate them that do not leavemoney on the table, get it onto
the market, get that equity edgegoing, and and you'll definitely
be a happy chappy when you doso.
rob_1_06-20-2025_130548 (04:22):
And, and just, just covering you off,
you know, your awardsdemonstrate you're very
effective, but what makes youpersonally so effective?
Nikki Katz (04:30):
Well, let's explain, start explaining what I do.
I am a broker who specializes infacilitating the sales, so
therefore.
I'm everything from a forensicaccountant, data analyst,
strategic planner, and then rollall that into one.
That's what business brokers do,so we do a whole load of things
(04:52):
that are not seen the same wayas selling a house, for example.
We're analyzing data and thatdata constantly changes and
moves.
So I always say when a house issold, it's got four walls and a
roof, right?
And it always, from the minuteit goes on to market, it stays
exactly the same.
But we are selling somethingthat's a moving entity.
It's constantly changing whetheryou're losing rent roll, getting
(05:15):
new clients, you're growing yourbuilding.
And so we constantly got toupdate that on an ongoing basis.
So that's what I do.
rob_1_06-20-2025_130548 (05:23):
Well, so if we look at that, when you
are valuing an agency foracquisition, what's the first
thing that you look, look atother than rent roll?
Maybe you could explain why orwhat makes rent roll
interesting.
But then what are the otherthings apart from rent roll that
interest you?
Nikki Katz (05:38):
Well, the whole mechanism behind the business is
that rent roles are the, what Iwould say, the bread and butter
income, the, the, the lifebloodof an agency where it pays all
the bills, it cap captures allthe, all the all the, ongoing.
Revenue that happens on aweekly, monthly basis.
So that's what I would say isthe bread and butter, and then
(05:59):
the sales on top of that is theicing on the cake.
Right?
But the rent rolls aretransacting for really high
volumes right now because of thesustainability of them.
Banks like them, there'ssecurity in the tenure of them.
They stay there.
Most people don't change land,agents unless you really make a
mess of something.
(06:19):
They generally, it's a bit likeyour bank.
You'll have the odd bugbear withyour management agent.
But at the end of the day, youtend to stick with someone you
know, and someone that you'vebuilt up a relationship with
rob_1_06-20-2025_130548 (06:30):
What's the first thing you tell a
principal who wants to sell hisor her agency in 12 months time?
Nikki Katz (06:35):
they need to get into the systemization of it
because at the end of the day,the more professional you are in
your setup, the easier it is forsomeone to do their due
diligence on the business.
Or the rent roll and thenunderstand what they're paying
for.
And if it's too muddy, I, I callit, if it's too murky, there's
too many ifs and buts, peoplewill shy away from taking that
(06:58):
on.
There's a lot of moneyexchanging here, so you have to
make sure that you're doing itwith credibility.
I mean, where we get tactical iswhen we see agencies missing out
on big premiums because theyhaven't got their data of what I
say, the ducks in a row.
They haven't got all of that atthe readiness.
To be ready for market.
It's a bit like going and doinga renovation on your house
(07:19):
before you put it to market sothat it, it, it features better.
We just need to make sure thatthe efficiencies are there.
So that would be like, you know.
Making sure that you havecapacity for growth, making sure
you've got occupationalefficiencies and checking out
your risk profile and makingsure that that isn't high risk.
(07:39):
And just being determined byyour, the quality of your data
and your tech stack, and makingsure that you've got everything
up to date.
The first thing I would do wouldbe database integrity.
So making sure that you knowright now.
If I said to a principal, canyou tell me how many active
tenants you have?
How many have, have you beenwith you for over two years?
(08:00):
What's the average rent perproperty?
If you can't understand thesequestions accurately and fairly
instantly, then you have a dataproblem that needs to be fixed.
Another thing is systemintegration.
Is your property able to beintegrated with another acqui
acquirer?
So do you have good systems andare you running about jumping
from system to system all thetime?
(08:21):
Instead of having something thathas a workflow with it?
And that would stop someinefficiencies, both with time
and with risk.
And the other thing iscompliance.
It's a really big thing todemonstrate that you've got a
compliance history these daysand that you're doing everything
right, audit trails.
On all properties, all of thatmechanism will help you be
stronger to the market and get abetter result.
rob_1_06-20-2025_130548 (08:43):
So, so, I mean, rent rolls can often be
attached to a sales agencybusiness or detached.
When, when it's attached to asale agency business, how much
value is put on the, the sizeof, say the CRM, the prospect
database, and the quality ofthat database.
Nikki Katz (09:01):
We're looking at everything.
We're looking at the principle,the touch points of the
principle.
The staff that are there, thekey staff on that, revenue
streams of the staff.
It then just blows out to havelots and lots of points that
will make the difference betweena good valuation and bad
valuation.
rob_1_06-20-2025_130548 (09:18):
when, when you look at some of the
agencies that have been up forsale and, and others that will
be going up for sale, it'sgenerally you know, the
principle is the, is the lead.
They built it up and now they'relooking to, to move on, pass it
on to the next person.
But of course, they've done itoff their, their gut and they
have a small sales team thatthey've trained up themselves.
So what you're saying is if thatis a, a course that they're
(09:40):
looking at, creating somedocumented procedures is a real
game changer for them.
Nikki Katz (09:48):
Absolutely.
Just anything that's a businesswhere you have to look at in the
eyes of the purchaser and whatthey need to do, a nice, smooth
transition or acquisition ofsmaller agency into larger
agency.
You have to be able to provideas much, and of course you've
(10:09):
gotta get through due diligenceas well.
So this is all important in thesales process that you have to
make sure that your duediligence is gonna stack up.
So yes, I mean, databaseintegrity system integration,
compliance, documentation, allof these things are really
important.
rob_1_06-20-2025_130548 (10:25):
Well here, here's, here's one for
you.
How do you a value, aprinciple's personal brand if
that principle's exiting as partof the sale, or how do you
manage that?
Because surely someone who's gota big character in an area has a
long track record in their areaand they're looking to retire,
their personal brand would bevery much connected to the
(10:46):
success of that agency.
How do you work with that?
Nikki Katz (10:49):
Personal brands are slightly different.
I would be looking at theagency's branding and what they
offer to the marketplace ratherthan the principle.
I deal with rent rollsspecifically, and it's property
managers that are on theday-to-day.
Most of, and I say this andyou're not all gonna shout at me
down the, down the the, thepodcast, but lot of principals
(11:12):
do not go near the propertymanagement.
They tend to err on the salesside of the agency and they
leave a really gun propertymanager to run that show with
their are other counterpartstaff.
So, it's funny, I ask principalsall the time, if I can have the
data and they go kind of sheetwhite on me and say, I don't
know how to get that.
(11:32):
And I say, well, you have to askthe property manager to download
it for you.
And they say, but I don't wantthem to think that I might be
selling.
And I say, well, you are theprincipal.
You're allowed to ask for anyinformation about your business
that you see fit.
So you just go in and say you'redoing a review on everything, on
the business wholeheartedly, andand ask for that information.
Principles.
(11:52):
It is hard when somebody isretiring and they're well known
in the industry, but generally,whatever reputation they have
with the industry should then beable to be carried across with
the rent roll of the agencymoving forward.
If they're an agency and have avery good reputation for
excellent service, then thatshould be a, a buying signal for
(12:13):
a buyer as well, becausehopefully they're, they're
buying a part of that.
We can do an ease and an easeout of liability so they can
stay with the business for aperiod of time and do a, a sort
of diminished role as they go.
And I quite like that.
Transitions are really good whenyou don't, you know, it isn't
just a kind of knee jerkreaction.
(12:34):
It's somebody where theprincipal might go from five
days a week to four days a week,to three days a week and go into
retirement in a slow mode, thatway allows everything to
transact in a nice, smoothmanner.
But that's not always the case.
Doesn't always happen.
Rob (12:50):
Just as an aside, does an independently branded agency
earn a different price point toone that might be assigned or
part of a, a national franchise.
Nikki Katz (12:59):
No.
It's not based on theirpositioning, there might be some
kudos in into that, but as faras rent roll transactions are
concerned I'm totally onlylooking at what, what the
transactional value of thatbusiness is and then moving it
across into a different hand.
So you do have a consolidationmarket at the moment where you
(13:20):
have a lot of the groups or thelarger scale real estate agents
who will just try and grab everyrent roll that's coming onto the
market because they're going,they're doing the numbers,
they're going for growth.
And of course you can do organicgrowth, which takes a lot longer
or you can do acquisition growthand that's a faster way to move
up and, and and turn thatrevenue up a notch.
(13:42):
So that's kind of what Ispecialize in.
rob_1_06-20-2025_130548 (13:45):
Well that, lets now move to an
individual agent, whetherthey're a property manager or a
sales agent.
What, what portable assetsseparate just a run of the mill
agent with one that reallystands out and the other
agencies would want to chasedown.
Nikki Katz (13:59):
Yeah, well, let's flip that perspective, right?
If you're an individual agentwatching a consolidation in the
market happening, you might bewondering, how do I transport
myself?
How is my career portable towhat's going on in the industry?
And I think the answer is thatyou do have to look at valuable,
transferable resources that youcan enhance the value regardless
(14:21):
of where you work.
So I think, sales agents haveto, and, and property managers
have to think of their careerlike a business within a
business.
They have to understand they'rerunning their own business and
therefore profiling themselvesis really important as well as
the agency.
So, for example, I run a companycalled Business Sales Agency,
(14:42):
which is my overriding company,and I have a couple of different
brands within that, but I alsohave my own website.
Out with those companies whichthey know about, which is
promoting, it's my show real.
It's me showing them what mycapabilities are as an operator,
and I can't understand why wedon't have more of that.
(15:02):
So you've really got to positionyourself, your personal
database.
If it's is your agency'sdatabase, obviously that's,
that's their records, but you'vealso gotta build your own
records of relationships,preferences, and interactions
that you've got with people andbuild compliancy around that
and, and consistency aroundthat.
So you've got valuable contacts,and then you need a digital
(15:25):
brand.
So your social media presence isreally important.
You need some content creationand some thought leadership and
doing things where you becomethat go to expert in your field
of wherever, whatever it is thatyou specialize in is really
important.
Doing events like this, sopodcasts and writing, blog and
(15:46):
doing your perception on themarket and, and, and being
interactive with your market isreally, really important.
And staying on trend for any,you know, arrangements that you
might be looking at as far ascareer enhancement is concerned,
and then your referral network,other agents, service providers,
past clients who know and trustyou, who you've done a good job
(16:09):
for in the past.
That's like an insurance policyfor growth as far as you as an
individual.
So as an agent asset, you wantto be looking at your personal
brand.
You want social media, you wantto create content.
So that builds your authority asthe go-to person referral
network development, and thankyour referrals.
You know, be, be great, gratefuland gracious to anyone who does
(16:33):
refer into your network.
Professional development andcertification.
People really admire if you godown the route of, of, of
self-development and you willput yourself through further
courses, whether that's an MBA,it might not even be something,
it might be business courses ormanagement courses or something,
but you really have to developyourself.
(16:54):
Like you are developing, if youwere, if you were a business,
technology skills, massive rightnow, the more you are investing
in that, and we're gonna comeonto AI in a minute and
basically do a personal brandaudit.
Look at who you are.
Sometimes it's quite interestingto Google yourself and find out
what people say out there aboutyou and have an understanding of
(17:16):
what you're offering out therein the marketplace so that you
can pick that up and move quitestrategically, even if you're
moving up or down in differentdepartments or within different
companies.
Different agencies.
rob_1_06-20-2025_130548 (17:29):
That is a good answer.
Thank you for that.
There's some real lessons inthere for for anyone really in
business, irrespective ofindustry I think.
If we're looking at, at teams,how do buyers assess whether an
agency's teams will adapt wellto new systems or to change?
Is that part of the conversationthat you have with them?
Nikki Katz (17:49):
it's a real pain point, isn't it?
I mean, one of the biggestchallenges I see when agencies
try to upgrade their tech is theteam adoption.
I.
And and knowing whether thatthat integration is going to
work you have agents who arenaturally gifted at digital
movement.
Generally, the younger they are,the quicker they are to pick up
any new things that you put in.
(18:09):
Whereas you'll have your olderdemographic who still want to
work with pieces of paper,right?
So the agency succeeds at techimplementation, not just by
buying software but also thechange management processes
within that.
So, you know, its all very wellhaving a CRM that's got 47
amazing features, but if peopledon't know how to work it,
(18:30):
they're not gonna get the bestout of that.
So I think it's about trainingchampions and not crowds I think
you have to work quite hard withyour team and, and work out
who's your your tech savvymembers of the team, and maybe
then make them the advocate forsomebody who's less tech tech
savvy and have some peerteachers within your environment
(18:50):
that can help jog people along.
But I, I think the, the biggestchallenge really is the
diversification of that we havewithin our industry.
In, you've got the Young Gen Zs,and then you've got the, the
older.
Manager, principals who dothings a certain way and always
have done and feel comfortablecontinuing to do it like that.
(19:11):
And then you get the young kidscoming in saying, what are you
kidding?
rob_1_06-20-2025_130548 (19:15):
Yeah.
And we, we see that with withthe adoption of different
platforms that get released byagencies.
The management love the idea ofit, and there's, there's always
a few people that are thechampions and then there's a lot
of people that are resistant.
And that's in any business.
To be fair, it's not limited toreal estate.
Nikki Katz (19:29):
It is in any business.
I've come across things inbusinesses where people just
haven't been able to cope by anew owner, and they've had to
move along only just becausethey, I, I believe it's a shut
brain mentality though.
I think if you want to learn,you will learn.
And I think there are people whohave shut down that concept of,
I'm too old to grasp this now,or I'm not interested in doing
(19:51):
it a different way.
And I, and I think that's apersonality thing.
Unfortunately, you can't do verymuch about that.
rob_1_06-20-2025_130548 (20:00):
No.
Well, speaking of things,changing AI and its impact I
mean we're still at early, earlydays with ai, but how do you
think AI will impact agencyvalue over the next few years?
Nikki Katz (20:13):
Well, ai, it's the elephant in the room, isn't it?
Artificial intelligence.
So I'm seeing AI impact realestate transactions in lots of
different ways.
I'm not sure I'm maybe going offpiste here when I talk about it,
but, you've got wave one, whichis just the automation of all
your routines and your generaltasks and getting them all
(20:34):
systemized and and integratedand whatever.
And then you've got wave two,which is the predicting of the
analytics.
AI now being able to predictwhich properties may have
maintenance issues, whichtenants are likely to renew,
what increases the market willbare and all that competitive
edge stuff emerging.
And then you've got wave three,which is your decision support.
(20:57):
So AI can evaluate investmentopportunities, recommend
portfolio strategies, evenmarket prediction of movement in
the market.
And so there are so manydifferent things now that are
coming out of ai.
The question is whether AI willimpact your business.
And I think data quality withai, I think sometimes you need
(21:17):
far easier know how to ask thequestions with AI to get the
quality that you're looking forof the data.
And I think this is where peopleare going wrong, where they're
not seeing it as an evolvinglearning tool.
They're seeing it as somethingthat they pop a random question
in and they expect a, a, arandom answer.
Sometimes when I'm doing thingsfor research or whatever, I'll
(21:39):
put that question back in againin several different ways.
And then take, because it's amachine, it will give you the
answers that you're looking forbased on quality of the
question.
And so I think it's really aboutknowing what prompts to use to
get the best out of ai.
But yeah, it's definitelyhappening.
(22:00):
It's already making a difference
rob_1_06-20-2025_130548 (22:01):
Well, we've covered a fair bit.
Have you got any key takeawaysthat you'd love for agents and
principles to go away fromtoday's episode with?
Nikki Katz (22:12):
Oh, well yes, of course I have.
I can not stop talking I'mScottish, right?
Lemme leave you with this.
Whether you're a principalpreparing for an exit or an
agent building a career, thefundamentals haven't changed:
it's relationships, it's serviceand quality and it's market
knowledge.
They're still hugely important.
But the multiple effect nowcomes in when you leverage the
(22:33):
data and the technology on topof that knowledge and skills and
service and quality of serviceand relationship building.
So, I would say there's threethings that I can give you as a
takeaway.
First, audit your data quality.
Access comprehensive informationabout key relationships and
(22:53):
transactions.
Secondly, assess your tech stackintegration.
Are your systems workingharmoniously together or against
each other?
And thirdly, start buildingportable assets where you're
cleaning up your personaldatabase, creating valuable
content and strengthening yournetwork.
So the takeaways are just tomake sure that you are doing the
(23:17):
very, very best out therebecause the cream always rises
to the top and it doesn't matterhow good AI is or how good your
last sale is, at the end of theday, it's consistent quality
performances that win through.
And I think that's probablyenough for me.
rob_1_06-20-2025_130548 (23:33):
That was brilliant.
Thank you so much I, I'velearned a lot today.
And listeners, if you haven'tlearned anything, you need to
re-listen because you haven'tlistened properly.
That was brilliant, Nikki.
We do appreciate that.
If you wanna find Nikki, you canfind Nikki online search,
N-I-K-K-I-K-A-T-Z.
That's Nikki Katz.
Nikki, thank you so much foryour time today.
Nikki Katz (23:53):
welcome.
It's been a pleasure to join youand thank you for inviting me to
be part of this podcast.
rob_1_06-20-2025_130548 (23:58):
Well, it has been a real learning
experience.
Thank you.
And, and folks I'll put all ofNikki's details in the show
notes from the Property Edgepodcast.
Please do have a look atpropertyedge.app for other
episodes, and until the nextepisode, farewell.
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