In this episode of the Property Edge podcast we’re joined by Kylie Davis, President of the PropTech Association of Australia, discuss the evolving PropTech landscape.
We explore how technology is bridging gaps in real estate operations, the increasing entry barriers for small agencies, and the integration of AI to improve efficiency. Davis shares her insights from her extensive career in media and PropTech, highlighting the rising tech divide between small and large agencies and the importance of embracing technology to stay competitive.
00:00 Introduction and Podcast Overview
01:13 Meet Kylie Davis: Proptech Association CEO
02:57 The Evolution of Proptech in Real Estate
05:42 Challenges and Opportunities in Real Estate Tech
12:28 The Generational Tech Divide in Real Estate
15:24 Proptech Podcast and Upcoming Events
16:47 Conclusion and Farewell
Visit www.propertyedge.app/the-property-edge-podcast to see other episodes, see episode summaries and read transcripts.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
sonic logo
Rob (00:09):
Today's episode or the property edge podcast.
Kylie Davis (00:11):
we are in this state of transition from going
to what we're told it should beable to do and what we believe
it can do.
But we're still stuck in whatwe've used to do because there's
a piece of hard work in themiddle of getting it to work.
The barrier to entry of realestate is actually rising not
because it's hard to get a realestate license, but because of
the obligation you have as anemployer of other people in the
(00:33):
space the gap has been, that'sbeen one silo, that's been
another silo.
And now we're starting to seetechnology coming up in that
middle space to join thingstogether so that there is
seamless flow between thedifferent parts of the
organization.
Mhm.
Rob Turnbull (00:49):
Hello, and welcome to the Property Edge podcast
where we investigate all thingsreal estate, data, tech, AI
integrations, and more.
My name is Rob Turnbull.
I'm the marketing manager hereat Land Services SA, and I'm on
a quest to learn more about theProptech and real estate
sectors, technology needs.
And I'm delighted today to bejoined by someone who probably
(01:12):
has more knowledge of theAustralian Proptech scene than
anyone else.
That is of course, Proptechassociation, CEO, Kylie Davis.
Welcome Kylie.
Kylie Davis (01:20):
Hey, Rob, great to be here.
Thank you.
Rob Turnbull (01:22):
Thank you very much for joining us.
Now, if you could give thelisteners a bit of an overview
of who you are, where you camefrom, and what the PropTech
association is.
Kylie Davis (01:32):
Sure.
Um, so Kylie Davis, I'm thepresident of the Proptech
Association, and I'm also amarketing consultant that
specializes in Proptechmarketing and getting Proptechs
to market with new products.
My background is I had 25 yearsin media.
I worked for the big mediacompanies, News Corp and
Fairfax.
My last gig in newspapers wasactually as national real estate
(01:55):
editor at the, uh, at News Corpworking with Tom Panos across
the whole country and all of thereal estate publications with
that.
As part of that, I introducedthis thing called, RP data to
the journalists and we taughtthem how to cover real estate,
market data and, and train themon data research.
It is my fault that everyone nowreads so much about, you know,
(02:16):
what Individual property marketsare doing even right down to a
suburb level every single week.
So I apologise to everyone forthat, but as part of that, I got
to know the RP Data CoreLogicteam really well, had five years
with CoreLogic, um, and my rolethere was basically meeting all
of these new emerging companiesthat were coming out that were
doing cool things withCoreLogic's data.
And that is how I got into thePropTech space.
Rob Turnbull (02:39):
Wowzers.
And so the property associatePropTech association has been
going now for what?
Four or five years.
Is that about right?
Kylie Davis (02:45):
2020, yeah, 2020 was when we launched, we
launched the week before COVIDhit.
Rob Turnbull (02:49):
Oh, brilliant timing.
Uh, it's, it's interesting.
Cause when you look at thePropTech, um, the broader
PropTech world, there's so manynew categories within PropTech.
From energy efficiency throughto consumer proptech through to
housing supply and all thesedifferent areas.
And of course, at the moment,they don't really affect real
estate agencies and agents thatmuch.
I'm sure they will down thetrack.
(03:10):
We can chat about that.
What are you seeing, though, asa broad, um, broad theme that's
happening in the more realestate agency technology
relevant areas?
Kylie Davis (03:22):
In the broad church that is PropTech and PropTech
adoption, residential realestate is actually one of the
first and earliest adopters ofPropTech.
So, you know, we, we werecutting edge when it came to
realestate.com and RP data and,um, you know, even property, uh,
properties, back in the rock enddays.
Like these are old, these arelegacy companies in the Proptech
(03:42):
space and residential realestate has been almost like a
proving ground of the value andthe, um, and the capability of
Proptech that we haven't seen tothat degree in commercial real
estate.
And we certainly haven't seenthat to that degree in any way,
shape or form in construction.
You know, construction is, isway, way, way behind.
Um, but all of these things needto come together if we're going
(04:05):
to solve the really big chewyproblems that exist in housing
supply and getting housing tomarket and all of those things.
But in residential real estatewhere, so the market's quite
what I would call mature in thatthere are a lot of established
players.
And we're seeing kind of rightat the moment, the gap has been,
that's been one silo, that'sbeen another silo.
(04:26):
And now we're starting to seetechnology coming up in that
middle space to join thingstogether so that there is
seamless flow between thedifferent parts of the
organization.
Um, and moving the data fromone's part to the next so that
you don't literally have to have59 tabs open on your computer.
But you've got one kind of majorpiece of software that's
starting to pull everything inand, and including or opening
(04:50):
the technology that you need.
And that's where we see some ofthe AI and automation,
automation based tech playingout.
So there, um, identifying thedata that you're working on,
pulling it out of the records sothat you don't have to retype
it, identifying the task thatneeds to be done next,
automating that task wherepossible and starting to, you
(05:11):
know, your job as a human is notto make the data move from step
to step.
Your job as a human is tounderstand, Hey, where are we up
to with that client?
Oh, okay.
This is what I now need to goand do and talk to that client
about, or that prospect about,and kind of really speeding up
that process of getting peopleinto market or getting their
property managed, you know,getting ahead of the curve of
(05:32):
managing their property asopposed to always being behind
what needs to be done.
Rob Turnbull (05:36):
It's funny, it's funny you say that.
So, um, in a couple of theprevious podcasts that we've
done, one of the key things wasintegrations and how everything
does sit as a silo.
And the issue is for a lot ofreal estate agencies or agencies
is they have all these differenttechnology platforms that don't
really talk to each other.
And they have all thesesubscriptions that they pay for.
And so they need SMEs, they needspecialists material experts on
(05:57):
each one of these things to beable to make them work.
And yet, um, the, the effort andthe power is bringing them
together, like you said, and Iguess here we have, um, what's
what we're seeing and maybe youcan comment on this is the
larger agency and agency groupsare helping put this together
because they have the scale toactually tie things together.
(06:17):
Whereas the smaller agents andagencies, the maybe 1 to 1 to 5,
1 to 7 agents in an agency havenot got the capacity to actually
bring all that tech together.
How do you see them winning inthis game?
Kylie Davis (06:31):
So there are two parts of it.
Um, and, what we're seeing too,from the big portals.
So for domain and realestate.
com is that they are now, theyhave been on a very aggressive
campaign of acquisition.
And so as MRI, you know, veryaggressive acquisition
campaigns, to make sure thatthey are not just one thing in
market.
So realestate.com and domain.comno longer wish to be seen as
(06:54):
just a portal where, you know,consumers go and they sell real
estate advertising.
They are looking at ways thatthey can deepen their
relationship with their, withtheir agent clients and also
with their consumers by offeringadditional products and
services.
And in the agency space,especially, or in the agent
space, you know, they're,they're really trying to be the
(07:14):
have the products that integrateand, um, and.
Um, then all start to worktogether.
Now, these, you know, evenbuying products, buying
companies and putting them intoyour mix is still, you still
need to take dev time to getthem to do all of that.
So not everybody's goteverything perfect yet.
One of the reasons where it's sohard at the moment is because we
are in this state of transitionfrom going to what we know what
(07:38):
we're told it should be able todo and what we believe it can
do.
But we're still stuck in whatwe've always used to be used to
do because there's a piece ofhard work in the middle of
getting it to work.
This, this ties back to one ofthe big trends that we're seeing
in the residential real estateindustry at the moment that
there is a lot more pressure onsmaller offices.
If you are a smaller office, itis probably easier in terms of
(08:01):
bandwidth and investment for youto stick with a bigger supplier
that can offer, you know, choosethe red or the green team,
whichever one you want to bewith and or MRI or or a bigger
provider that can basicallyprovide the full stack to you.
Um, but we are also seeing,bigger agencies are growing
bigger and they're doing that byabsorbing the smaller ones.
(08:22):
And we're seeing a change in thebusiness model in real estate
because it is becoming a lotmore expensive to manage both
the tech stack, the HR stack,all of the things that you need
to do now to be compliant as abusiness.
The barrier to entry of realestate is actually rising not
because it's hard to get a realestate license, but because of
the obligation you have as anemployer of other people in the
(08:43):
space.
Rob Turnbull (08:44):
Yeah, absolutely.
And, the tech divide iscertainly growing.
We're seeing that, um, I mean,locally here and you'd be seeing
at a national level as well.
If we look at the, the Proptechawards that recently happened,
um, uh, Property Edge, everyonewas, uh, was in, in the mix, but
unfortunately didn't winanything.
Um, But we did see MRI didreally, really well across the
(09:04):
board with a lot of differentplatforms.
What's the secret to theirsuccess?
Kylie Davis (09:10):
So, so MRI, if everyone remembers, bought the
PropTech group, um, what, a yearor two ago, about 18 months ago,
and have now basicallyintegrated all of that
technology into their, into,into the MRI ecosystem.
And, um, and I think what DavidBowie and Mark Cohen and, um,
uh, and Steve Grubb might havedone in that space is really
(09:33):
clever.
They have let those productsthat they bought in the PropTech
group.
So that included.
Vault, it included Investor, itincluded like, there was a ton
of tech that Eagle software,they, they, they got a whole,
they got literally a bunch ofbrands that if they tried to, if
you know, for a huge bargainprice, because if they tried to
(09:54):
build all that tech fromscratch, it would have cost them
more than what they paid.
So, um, I think David Bowes didsome very good shopping at that
event with them.
But, but what they have done isinstead of, um, merging and,
and, um, homogenizing it intoone big, you know, monstrous
platform.
They've kept the identities andthe business cases for each of
(10:15):
those products.
And they are basically workingthem all to their strength.
Rob Turnbull (10:19):
And that last bit there, the talk to each other
bit, the connection bits, thereally important one, isn't it?
Um, speaking of connections,taking it to a different style
though.
One, one of the key themes thatthe podcast so far has heard
from our guests is that realestate is a people business.
People buy from people.
People want real estate agentsin there for their expertise.
Are there any PropTechs thatyou're seeing, achieving a
(10:42):
balancing act, of both helping,improve efficiencies and improve
knowledge transfer whilst alsoimproving the relationship
between agent and vendor orbuyer.
Kylie Davis (10:55):
The goal is that you want to be introducing
Proptech, that you can clearlysee frees you up as an agent
because we all want to be peoplebusinesses, but being a people
business does not mean thatpeople do all the things.
What we want to get out of ourtechnology is that the things
(11:16):
that are keeping us busy, thatare making us feel frantic, that
we are struggling to juggle,that we are struggling to tick
to dot the i's and cross the t'son that make our days very, very
stressful.
That is the stuff that needs tobe organized and sorted and
handled by the Proptech so thatwe can then have better quality
(11:37):
conversations because we've gotthe information we need at our
fingertips and we've got thetime booked in to, to have the
relationships and to build therelationships with our clients.
And then the question is, sowhat technology have we already
bought that maybe we don't quiteunderstand what it's capable of
yet?
What little projects could we doin that space to understand
(11:57):
what's available better?
And that, they're like your easywins.
Like, well, let's introduce oneor two of those things into the
mix and see how that goes.
And then what can't we dobecause we just don't have the
tech?
And, and then how can we go andfind that tech to, to make it,
to make it work for us or makeit easy for us to make it easy
for us to deliver this amazingexperience that we want to give
(12:17):
our clients.
And, or remove this stress fromour team because this is crazy.
Rob Turnbull (12:23):
there's one thing I've seen in country South
Australia, a lot of the agentsthat I speak to, I live in the
country, and a lot of them are,um, older, essentially.
They've been running theirterritory for a long time.
They've got the relationships.
They've got their processes theylike to go through.
They've quite light touch ontech.
I'm speaking to them now andsome are concerned because
they're going to get leftbehind.
What do you say to thegenerational divide that's
(12:46):
starting to creep into realestate based on, tech savviness?
Kylie Davis (12:51):
I know this stuff is hard.
I know that it's hard to getyour brain around and I know
that it's hard to know, um,often who you can trust, if
you're looking for guidance orhelp with it.
But it is absolutely essentialthat you find a tech partner or
you bring someone into yourbusiness who is younger, who
gets it, who you can thenentrust to drive it.
(13:11):
And think about how we use ourmobile phones.
Like, do you.
And I'm going to put my hand up.
I couldn't tell you what myhusband's mobile phone number
is.
We've been married for 30 years.
He's had the same numberprobably for the last 15, but I
still couldn't tell you what itis.
I can tell you what my, my phonenumber is when I was, you know,
seven years old and living inGlen Waverley.
But I have not ever bothered toremember because I just, say,
(13:32):
Hey, Google phone, husband andhusband is on end of phone.
Like my brain doesn't Google isnow very confused.
Because,
Rob Turnbull (13:47):
That's a case in point.
Well played.
Kylie Davis (13:50):
yeah, that wasn't set up.
But so, what we're doing as asociety is that we are basically
delegating parts of our brain,parts of our brain and parts of
our memory and the need to thinkabout things into the
technology.
And as a business owner, thestuff in your head is your IP,
(14:10):
getting it out of your head andinto the processes and practices
of your business is what makesyour business saleable.
So, okay, you don't get the techunderstood completely
understand, but you have anoperating system and an
operating process, which isdeeply personal and, um, and
probably very, very connectedwith your community.
So you need to map that.
(14:32):
And then find someone who canhelp you match, match this, the
steps or the structure into thetech so that you have a saleable
business as part of it, becauseotherwise you've just had a job
for the last X number of yearsand you're basically, um, going
to sell your rent role for facevalue.
Rob Turnbull (14:51):
I know a lot of people are going to get value
from that.
Because on the other, on theflip side.
I speak to younger agents andthey're loving tech, they're
gobbling it up, they're eatingit, they're absolutely killing
it.
But, potentially and a couple ofour previous guests have talked
about it, they also haven't hadthe mentoring to understand the
other side of it, therelationship building side, the
people side of things.
(15:12):
And that's where that experiencedoes come in.
So for each agency it would be areal delicate balancing act that
we need to go through.
now, Kylie, you run the verylong term and very popular
Proptech association or Proptechpodcast.
Um, do you want to tell ourlisteners about that?
Kylie Davis (15:30):
Oh, look, uh, so the podcast is well, at the
moment, a bit occasional, but wetry to regularly interview new
tech out in the market orunderstand what's going on in
older tech and what their plansare as they, as they buy or
adopt new technology.
And, um, and it's just really agreat way to find out what's
happening in the market and, andwho people are and what they do.
Rob Turnbull (15:52):
we've also got Proptech conference coming up in
November in Sydney.
Do you want to tell the folksabout that?
Kylie Davis (15:58):
So the Proptech Forum is happening on the 14th
of November, Thursday, the 14thof November in Sydney at the New
South Wales Teachers Federation.
That the forum is very proudlyby the geeks for the geeks.
So if you are a Proptechyourself, or you're just really
passionate about the space, comealong.
If you're a real estate agentand you'd like to hear about
(16:18):
what's going to hit you in thenext three to five years, this,
this is a fantastic place to getsort of ahead of the curve, but,
the goal of the, um, the, theday is to bring Proptechs
together to support this, thisculture of collaboration and,
and, and integration, andintegration will be a very big,
ticket on the agenda as well.
And looking at what we need tobe doing as a sector to make it
(16:40):
easier for our clients to dobusiness with us
Rob Turnbull (16:42):
Kylie, you're on LinkedIn.
If anyone wants to follow youand your association, find Kylie
on LinkedIn, thank you for yourwords of wisdom today, a lot to
take home.
I think, as we look at PropertyEdge, I know our dev team will
be listening to this podcast andlearning a few different ideas
about things I need to thinkabout in the the roadmap as we
build that product out, butthank you for your time today.
Kylie Davis (17:06):
Pleasure.
Thank you for having me.
Rob Turnbull (17:08):
And everyone, thanks for listening.
Once again, the Property Edgepodcast is available on all your
streaming services, and pleasedo subscribe to our newsletter.
If you'd like this sort ofcontent and want to hear from us
more until the next episode, byebye.
sonic logo Mhm.
(17:32):
Mhm.
Mhm.
Kylie Davis (18:04):
Okay.
(18:39):
Hey, Rob, great to be here.
Thank you.
Sure.
Um, so Kylie Davis, I'm thepresident of the Proptech
Association, and I'm also amarketing consultant that
specializes in, um, Proptechmarketing and getting Proptechs
(19:04):
um, to market with new products.
Um, my background is I had 25years in media.
I worked for the big mediacompanies, News Corp and
Fairfax.
My last gig in newspapers wasactually as national real
estate.
editor at the, uh, at News Corpworking with Tom Panos across
the whole country and all of thereal estate publications with
that.
(19:24):
As part of that, I introducedthis thing called, um, RP data
to the journalists and we taughtthem how to cover real estate,
um, market data and, and trainthem on data research.
It is my fault that everyone nowreads so much about, you know,
what Individual property marketsare doing even right down to a
suburb level every single week.
So I apologise to everyone forthat, but as part of that, I got
(19:46):
to know the RP Data CoreLogicteam really well, had five years
with CoreLogic, um, and my rolethere was basically meeting all
of these new emerging companiesthat were coming out that were
doing cool things withCoreLogic's data.
And that is how I got into thePropTech space.
(20:08):
Uh, yeah, we're, we're sort ofheading in next, I think we're
heading into, we're four yearsold heading into our fifth year
next year.
We're about to do it, we do anAGM at the end of this year, so
I think that's our fourth.
2020, yeah, 2020 was when welaunched, we launched the week
before COVID hit.
hit Yeah.
(20:56):
So in the, in the, um, in thebroad church that is PropTech
and PropTech adoption,residential real estate is
actually one of the first andearliest adopters of PropTech.
So, you know, we, we werecutting edge when it came to
realestate.com and, and RP dataand, um, you know, even
property, uh, properties.
back in the rock end days.
(21:16):
Like these are old, these arelegacy companies in the Proptech
space and residential realestate has been almost like a
proving ground of the value andthe, um, and the capability of
Proptech that we haven't seen tothat degree in commercial real
estate.
And we certainly haven't seenthat to that degree in any way,
shape or form in construction.
(21:36):
Um, like with the, the, Youknow, construction is, is way,
way, way behind.
Um, but all of these things needto come together if we're going
to solve the really big chewyproblems that exist in housing
supply and getting housing tomarket and all of those things.
But in residential real estatewhere, so the market's quite
mature, what I would call maturein that there are a lot of
(21:57):
established players.
Uh, there's a lot of, um,scaling.
Players that have come all theway through and, and from
startup into now verging onestablished players, a lot of
the CRMs fit that bill.
And what we are seeing in, inresidential Proptech is that
sales and marketing technology.
Everyone's pretty comfortablewith that.
(22:18):
Now, backend technology, we'veseen like major improvements in
how back office works, um, interms of using a CRM in terms
of, um, and property management.
Um, You know, tasking and we'reseeing a lot of stuff there and
where the bits happening in themiddle is joining up between
sales and marketing and admin.
(22:39):
And we're seeing kind of rightat the moment, the gap has been,
that's been one silo, that'sbeen another silo.
And now we're starting to seetechnology coming up in that
middle space to join thingstogether so that there is
seamless flow between thedifferent parts of the
organization.
Um, and moving the data fromone's part to the next so that
you don't literally have to have59 tabs open on your computer.
(23:03):
But you've got one kind of majorpiece of software that's
starting to pull everything inand, and including or opening
the technology that you need.
And that's where we see some ofthe AI and automation,
automation based tech playingout.
So there, um, identifying thedata that you're working on,
pulling it out of the records sothat you don't have to retype
(23:24):
it, identifying the task thatneeds to be done next,
automating that task wherepossible and starting to, you
know, your job as a human is notto make the data move from step
to step.
Your data as a human is your jobas a human is to understand,
Hey, where are we up to withthat client?
Oh, okay.
This is what I now need to goand do and talk to that client
about, or that prospect about,and kind of really speeding up
(23:47):
that process of getting people.
into market as a, or gettingtheir property managed, you
know, getting ahead of the curveof managing their property as
opposed to always being behindwhat needs to be done.
(24:58):
Uh, so, so there's sort of,yeah, so there are two parts of
it.
Um, and, What we're seeing too,from the big portals.
So for domain and realestate.
com is that they are now, theyhave been on a very aggressive
campaign of acquisition.
And so as MRI, you know, veryaggressive acquisition
campaigns, um, to make sure thatthey are not just one thing in
(25:21):
market.
So realestate.com and domain.comno longer wish to be seen as
just a portal where, you know,consumers go and they sell real
estate advertising.
They are looking at ways thatthey can deepen their
relationship with their, withtheir agent clients and also
with their consumers by offeringadditional products and
services.
And in the agency space,especially, or in the agent
(25:43):
space, you know, they're,they're really trying to be the
have the products that integrateand, um, and.
Um, then all start to worktogether.
Now, these, you know, evenbuying products, um, as a
buying, you know, buyingcompanies and putting them into
your mix is still, you stillneed to take dev time to get
them to do all of that.
So not everybody's goteverything perfect yet.
(26:04):
One of the reasons, um, whereit's so hard at the moment is
because we are in this state oftransition from going to what we
know what we're told it shouldbe able to do and what we
believe it can do.
But we're still stuck in whatwe've always used to be used to
do because there's a piece ofhard work in the middle of
getting it to work.
So your options as an agent, uh,and and this kind of ties into
(26:27):
one of the bigger trends thatwe're seeing in the residential
industry at the moment.
It's sorry about that.
Um, is that This, this ties backto one of the big trends that
we're seeing in the residentialreal estate industry at the
moment that there is a lot morepressure on smaller offices.
If you are a smaller office, itis probably easier in terms of
(26:50):
bandwidth and investment for youto stick with a bigger supplier
that can offer.
You know, choose the red or thegreen team, whichever one you
want to be with and or MRI or ora bigger provider that can
basically provide the full stackto you.
Um, but we are also seeing, youknow, the grow bigger agencies
(27:12):
are growing bigger and they'redoing that.
by absorbing the smaller ones.
And we're seeing a change in thebusiness model in real estate
because it is becoming a lotmore expensive to manage both
the tech stack, the HR stack,all of the things that you need
to do now to be compliant as abusiness.
The barrier to entry of realestate is actually coming, is
actually rising not because it'shard to get a real estate
(27:32):
license, but because of theobligation you have as an
employer of other people in thespace.
(28:03):
Yeah.
So, so MRI, if everyoneremembers, bought the PropTech
group, um, what, a year or twoago, about 18 months ago, and
have now basically integratedall of that technology into
their, into, into the MRIecosystem.
And, um, and I think what DavidBowie and Mark Cohen and, um,
(28:26):
uh, and Steve Grubb might havedone in that space is really
clever.
They have let those productsthat they bought in the PropTech
group.
So that included.
Vault, it included Investor, itincluded like, there was a ton
of tech that Eagle software,they, they, they got a whole,
they got literally a bunch ofbrands that if they tried to, if
(28:47):
you know, for a huge bargainprice, because if they tried to
build all that tech fromscratch, it would have cost them
more than what they paid.
So, um, I think David Bowes didsome very good shopping at that
event with them.
But, but what they have done isinstead of, um, merging and,
and, um, homogenizing it intoone big, you know, monstrous
platform.
(29:08):
They've kept the identities andthe business cases for each of
those products.
And they are basically workingthem all to their strength.
Um, which is why they were suchattractive propositions in the
first place.
And so, um, so this year MRIbasically entered those
different products into each oftheir categories.
And some of them were verystrong, um, were very strong
(29:28):
products and, and, and broughthome the, the, the gold for
them.
MRI have a, MRI have a veryclever, um, framework that
they're working to, which theycall the, the Agora and the
(29:50):
Agora, the MRI Agora.
And Agora is the old Latin wordor Roman word for marketplace.
And so they have basicallycreated a marketplace inside
their platform where all of theproducts that they have, and
then any of.
The any other Proptechs thatwish to become a partner with
MRI makes it easy for them tointegrate.
And then once you are acceptedinto the Agora, it is easy for
(30:13):
the agents that are in thatspace to, you know, pick and mix
the technology that they want touse.
And the, and the goal is thatthey then all, because they're
all inside the same kind offramework, they all start to
work together much more easily.
So you still got, you know, the,the build your own adventure
opportunity around what tech youwant to use.
But you can do that knowingthat.
(30:33):
Well, these guys all, these guysall talk to each other, so it's
not going to be quite as hard.
(31:47):
I think that's the goal of everyPropTech to do that, but the,
there's, there's kind of threekey Areas that every real estate
agent needs to understand abouthow to use the, how to, how to
get the most out of PropTech andhow to, regardless of, of, of
what it is or, or how, how your,what you want it, what it, what
(32:09):
it says, what the tin says itdoes, right?
The goal is.
That you want to be introducingProptech that you can clearly
see frees you up as an agentbecause we all want to be people
businesses, but being a peoplebusiness does not mean that
people do all the things what wewant to get out of out of our
(32:31):
technology is that the thingsthat are keeping us busy, that
are making us feel frantic, thatwe are struggling to juggle,
that we are struggling to tickto dot the I's and cross the T's
on that make our days very, verystressful.
That is the stuff that needs tobe organized and sorted and
handled by the Proptech so thatwe can then have better quality
(32:55):
conversations because we've gotthe information we need at our
fingertips and we've got thetime booked in to, to have the
relationships and to build therelationships with our clients.
So the technology that is outthere is not seeking to take
down the that away from realestate agents.
It's actually seeking to supportagents to do that better.
But the only way that the propthat Proptech can function is
(33:19):
through data.
And so you absolutely an agent,real estate agents have a
curious relationship withproperty data.
I'm going to, I'm going to bediplomatic.
And, and, and the curiosity is,is that residential real, the
residential real estate datasets in Australia are well
(33:39):
known, well established, quiteclear, um, have been around for
a very long time, and we've allbeen using them for a very long
time.
And agents, um, uh, kind of the,the core source of that.
And you need to, um, um,understand what good data looks
like.
And, and you actually need tounderstand the importance of
(34:00):
contributing your data to thebig picture while maintaining
ownership and oversight of yourdata.
So it's not like, well, I giveall my data to realestate.
com and then that's it.
I never see it again and theyjust sell it back to me and I
end up with a bigger bill.
That's, that's not what I'msaying.
But what you need to understandis what parts of the forms that
I'm filling in or the, the datathat I'm collecting.
(34:23):
Is common, easily available.
What is the stuff that I only Iknow, or my agency knows, and
how do I actually use thetechnology that's out there to
completely automate the stuffthat is, is, is out there
generally.
That is, you know, this is whatthe general market's doing.
This is what the whole suburbsdoing.
(34:44):
This is what the whole state ofSouth Australia is doing.
But what is my view on thatthrough the data that I can see
that only I can see.
You know, because, because I'm,I farm these territories, I, I
own these areas, like, this is,this is what I do.
And then how can I actually beincorporating that data with the
technology that I've got toreally super power both my
(35:06):
conversations and to super powermy, um, my dominance of my
market and my understanding ofmy market and to give my team
really, really great tools init.
And then how can I overlaythings like I or, um, you know,
like Rita or any of the productsout there that basically start
to then say, well, because weknow this about us, We think
(35:27):
this is going to happen next, orwe can see that next week is
going to start to look like, youknow, and start to actually
manage and project that stuffinto the future.
So you need to be really clearon your human proposition.
Like, what do we want to do?
How do we want to communicate?
How do we want to do that?
And, and, uh, and what, whatdoes a great relationship with
(35:47):
us as an agency look like?
You need to be really clear onwhy do we struggle to do that at
the moment?
And the answer to that will behere's a list of things that are
keeping us busy that are takingtime away from us doing that.
And then the question is, sowhat technology have we already
bought that maybe we don't quiteunderstand what it's capable of
yet?
What could we What littleprojects could we do in that
(36:09):
space to understand what'savailable better?
And that, they're like your easywins.
Like, well, let's introduce oneor two of those things into the
mix and see how that goes.
And then what, what, what can'twe do because we just don't have
the tech?
And, and then how can we go andfind that tech to, to make it,
to make it work for us or makeit easy for us to make it easy
(36:30):
for us to deliver this amazingexperience that we want to give
our clients.
And, or.
remove this stress from our teambecause this is crazy.
It's probably, it's probablygonna sound well, it's probably
(37:38):
gonna sound a bit harsh.
And here's the, it's absolutely,I know this stuff is hard.
I know that it's hard to getyour brain around and I know
that it's hard to know, um,often who you can trust, um, if
you're looking for guidance orhelp with it.
Um, but it is absolutelyessential that you find a tech
(37:59):
partner or you find or you bringsomeone into your business who
is younger, who gets it, who youcan then entrust to drive it.
And it's especially important ifyou are an older agent who is
looking to exit in the next fiveyears because the knowledge.
So, so this is what technologyis doing right now.
And think about how we use ourmobile phones.
(38:19):
Like, do you.
And I'm going to put my hand up.
I couldn't tell you what myhusband's mobile phone number
is.
We've been married for 30 years.
He's had the same numberprobably for the last 15, but I
still couldn't tell you what itis.
I can tell you what my, my phonenumber is when I was, you know,
seven years old and living inGlen Waverley.
But I have not ever bothered toremember because I just, say,
Hey, Google phone, husband andhusband is on end of phone.
(38:43):
Like my brain doesn't Google isnow very confused.
Because, yeah, that wasn't setup.
But so, so, so what we've done,what we're doing as a society is
(39:05):
that we are basically Delegatingparts of our brain, parts of our
brain and parts of our memoryand the need to think about
things into the technology.
And as a business owner, this isactually, The stuff in your head
is your IP, getting it out ofyour head and into the processes
and practices of your businessis what makes your business
(39:26):
saleable.
And when it comes time toretire, so it's absolute.
So, okay, you don't get the techunderstood completely
understand, but you have a wayof operate, you have an
operating system and anoperating process, which is
deeply personal and, um, andprobably very, very connected
with your community.
So you need to map that.
(39:46):
And then find someone who canhelp you match, match this, the
steps or the structure into thetech so that you have a saleable
business as part of it, becauseotherwise you've just had a job
for the last X number of yearsand you're basically, um, going
to sell your rent role for facevalue.
Yeah.
(41:41):
Uh, so, so a couple of things.
So Reapered and MRI areinternational businesses that
purchase local businesses andthen use that as their, as their
footprint to, to break off.
So they are still, even thoughthey're globally owned, they are
still very much Australianbusinesses in their core
offerings.
Um, they have introduced, Ithink one or two things each,
(42:02):
um, that they see can work inthe market.
Australian tech is really wellplaced to export because the,
the very, uh, delightful natureof, federated nature of our, um,
our decision making, you know,governance that sits over real
estate here in Australia.
So we don't have a federalsystem.
We have a go, you know, localsystem of, um, of state
(42:23):
governments.
So if you're a tech business,you have to dev to local.
laws and compliance in eightdifferent states and
territories.
I think that's how many there,seven, eight, whatever, whatever
the number is.
Um, I'm never sure.
I know, I know NorthernTerritory is not a territory
anymore, but I can neverremember where, where, where
campus is.
(42:46):
She said it so authoritatively.
I'm pretty sure there'ssomething, okay.
Um, so, but if you can, if youcan develop technology that can
cope with that level of, of, um,From a tech point of view, the
fact that the legislation isdifferent doesn't change the
fact that why the legislationexists.
So, so there is sort ofdifferent outcomes that sit at
the, at, in the, in the tech,but, but the, but the, the
(43:10):
capability to, Accommodate thatis the same capability.
So for Australian technology tosay, yeah, well, we've done it
for eight.
Let's do it for another 52 inthe U S like how hard can that
be?
I mean, it can be hard, butit's, it's a piece of work to be
done, but you've already got thecapability in the business.
It's about scaling it.
It's not about rethinking howyou go about it.
(43:40):
So I, I live in Russell Lee,which is part of Canada Bay.
And we are, um, on the runway.
Well, we're underneath the.
the third, the flight path thatgoes over the water, the third
runway.
Uh, and, um, so on a, on a, on abeautiful, clear day, it is very
chaos, chaos here.
If it, if it's terribly windy,we don't get anyone cause it's
(44:01):
too busy.
But the temperature, theweather's too bad.
Um, they're worst when they takeoff.
Um, any who, um, so where werewe?
Uh, we're talking about, uh,yeah, so, so it's pretty easy
for Australian tech to export.
Kiwi tech comes into the countryquite easily because they use us
(44:25):
as a test case to see if theycan scale, um, cause of the,
cause of the complexity.
Um, and what we see is, um, butwhat we see is that, uh,
American and UK tech struggles abit more here because They're
not because in, I think, um, UKtech, cause we, they don't have
(44:48):
the level of complexity aroundstructure that we do.
And they also have sometimeshave a rather interesting
attitude to us being a formercolony.
And, um, and so that we'd loveto some UK Proptechs out there,
but some of them have had somevery interesting attitudes and,
um, and the Americans, I thinkfor a lot of the American
(45:10):
technology, we're too small themarket to really.
Like, there's, there's, there'sbigger, easier fish to fry over
there than before they start tolook at coming over here.
It's not until they are at thatsize and scale like MRI or
CoreLogic that they sort of go,you know what?
We should, Australia's a prettygood jumping ground for Asia.
We should, we should look intothat.
And that's when they, that'swhen they start to come over.
(45:42):
Yeah.
Yeah, the property market inAustralia, though, behaves very,
very differently to the U.
S.
property market.
And while, as Australians, wehave no problem going into the
U.
S.
and accommodating thatdifference, the idea that, uh,
that the U.
S.
that the core of the U.
S.
technology around how agentsbehave and what agents do,
(46:05):
coming over here, They, theyhaven't, I haven't really seen a
fantastic example yet in theresidential space of US tech
coming over here because,because they really struggle to
cope with, what do you mean youdon't have a bias agent in the
deal?
Like, well, hang on.
That's half, that's a half ourtech stack.
How do we, so they struggle tomake the, the dollars work for
(46:26):
them.
(46:51):
Oh, look, uh, so the podcast isa, uh, occasional, well, at the
moment, a bit occasional, but wetry to regularly interview new
tech out in the market orunderstand what's going on in
older tech and what their plansare as they, as they buy or
adopt new technology.
And, um, and it's just really agreat way to find out.
(47:12):
What's happening in the marketand, and who people are and what
they do.
Um, one of the, one of themistakes I see agents make or
agencies make is that they,there's over 600 Proptechs out
in market at the moment.
And what we try to do as humanbeings is, um, understand all of
them so we can work out if whatthey've got is useful to us.
And, and that's not really theright way to go about it.
(47:33):
Um, and trust me, cause I'vetried to learn them all and it's
impossible.
Um, We're better off toactually, like we were talking
about before, understand whatwe, what we, what great service
looks like for us and to thenhear about or dive into who's
offering those sort of solutionsthat can fill those gaps for us.
Um, and the other best way to dothat is to not sort of turn it
(47:56):
into, you know, really nastyadulting homework.
But if there's a way that ifyou're in the car and you've
got, and you just want to hearwhat's going on in the sector,
Um, it's a really easy, gentleway for your brain to kind of
start to put some, join somedots together.
Rob Turnbull (48:28):
the
Kylie Davis (48:35):
Yeah.
So the Proptech forum ishappening on the 14th of
November, Thursday, the 14th ofNovember in Sydney at the New
South Wales Teachers Federation.
Our keynote speaker is SteveVamos, who's the former CEO of
Xero and also the Australianmanaging director of Microsoft
and also of Apple.
Um, so we're really lookingforward to hearing from him that
(48:59):
the forum is very proudly, um,by the geeks for the geeks.
So if you are a Proptechyourself, or you're just really
passionate about the space, um,come along.
We will be talking about, um,AI, uh, data naming hierarchy
conventions.
Uh, uh, we will be talking aboutcyber security, um, best
(49:20):
practice.
We will be like all the, uh,like it, it is where.
It's the tribe that gets yourvibe if you're really into tech.
If you're a real estate agentand you'd like to hear about
what's going to hit you in thenext three to five years, this,
this is a fantastic place to getsort of ahead of the curve, but,
um, um, uh, you know, but we'realso, there's a whole lot of
(49:40):
stuff going on in energyefficiency at the moment that's
impacting technology.
But the goal of the, um, the,the day is to bring Proptechs
together to support this, thisculture of collaboration and,
and, and integration, uh, and,and integration will be a very
big, um, ticket on the, on theagenda as well.
And looking at what we need tobe doing as a sector to make it
(50:01):
easier for our clients to dobusiness with us proudly and
unashamedly.
Yeah, I am, I'm seriouslythinking of getting some
propeller hats, but I, I don'tknow if I can, I don't know if
(50:22):
our budget was stretched.
I know, they'd be awesome.
(50:56):
Pleasure.
Thank you for having me.
(51:18):
Thank you.
Pleasure.
sonic logo
Rob (00:09):
Today's episode or the property edge podcast.
Kylie Davis (00:11):
we are in this state of transition from going
to what we're told it should beable to do and what we believe
it can do.
But we're still stuck in whatwe've used to do because there's
a piece of hard work in themiddle of getting it to work.
The barrier to entry of realestate is actually rising not
because it's hard to get a realestate license, but because of
the obligation you have as anemployer of other people in the
(00:33):
space the gap has been, that'sbeen one silo, that's been
another silo.
And now we're starting to seetechnology coming up in that
middle space to join thingstogether so that there is
seamless flow between thedifferent parts of the
organization.
Mhm.
Rob Turnbull (00:49):
Hello, and welcome to the Property Edge podcast
where we investigate all thingsreal estate, data, tech, AI
integrations, and more.
My name is Rob Turnbull.
I'm the marketing manager hereat Land Services SA, and I'm on
a quest to learn more about theProptech and real estate
sectors, technology needs.
And I'm delighted today to bejoined by someone who probably
(01:12):
has more knowledge of theAustralian Proptech scene than
anyone else.
That is of course, Proptechassociation, CEO, Kylie Davis.
Welcome Kylie.
Kylie Davis (01:20):
Hey, Rob, great to be here.
Thank you.
Rob Turnbull (01:22):
Thank you very much for joining us.
Now, if you could give thelisteners a bit of an overview
of who you are, where you camefrom, and what the PropTech
association is.
Kylie Davis (01:32):
Sure.
Um, so Kylie Davis, I'm thepresident of the Proptech
Association, and I'm also amarketing consultant that
specializes in Proptechmarketing and getting Proptechs
to market with new products.
My background is I had 25 yearsin media.
I worked for the big mediacompanies, News Corp and
Fairfax.
My last gig in newspapers wasactually as national real estate
(01:55):
editor at the, uh, at News Corpworking with Tom Panos across
the whole country and all of thereal estate publications with
that.
As part of that, I introducedthis thing called, RP data to
the journalists and we taughtthem how to cover real estate,
market data and, and train themon data research.
It is my fault that everyone nowreads so much about, you know,
(02:16):
what Individual property marketsare doing even right down to a
suburb level every single week.
So I apologise to everyone forthat, but as part of that, I got
to know the RP Data CoreLogicteam really well, had five years
with CoreLogic, um, and my rolethere was basically meeting all
of these new emerging companiesthat were coming out that were
doing cool things withCoreLogic's data.
And that is how I got into thePropTech space.
Rob Turnbull (02:39):
Wowzers.
And so the property associatePropTech association has been
going now for what?
Four or five years.
Is that about right?
Kylie Davis (02:45):
2020, yeah, 2020 was when we launched, we
launched the week before COVIDhit.
Rob Turnbull (02:49):
Oh, brilliant timing.
Uh, it's, it's interesting.
Cause when you look at thePropTech, um, the broader
PropTech world, there's so manynew categories within PropTech.
From energy efficiency throughto consumer proptech through to
housing supply and all thesedifferent areas.
And of course, at the moment,they don't really affect real
estate agencies and agents thatmuch.
I'm sure they will down thetrack.
(03:10):
We can chat about that.
What are you seeing, though, asa broad, um, broad theme that's
happening in the more realestate agency technology
relevant areas?
Kylie Davis (03:22):
In the broad church that is PropTech and PropTech
adoption, residential realestate is actually one of the
first and earliest adopters ofPropTech.
So, you know, we, we werecutting edge when it came to
realestate.com and RP data and,um, you know, even property, uh,
properties, back in the rock enddays.
Like these are old, these arelegacy companies in the Proptech
(03:42):
space and residential realestate has been almost like a
proving ground of the value andthe, um, and the capability of
Proptech that we haven't seen tothat degree in commercial real
estate.
And we certainly haven't seenthat to that degree in any way,
shape or form in construction.
You know, construction is, isway, way, way behind.
Um, but all of these things needto come together if we're going
(04:05):
to solve the really big chewyproblems that exist in housing
supply and getting housing tomarket and all of those things.
But in residential real estatewhere, so the market's quite
what I would call mature in thatthere are a lot of established
players.
And we're seeing kind of rightat the moment, the gap has been,
that's been one silo, that'sbeen another silo.
(04:26):
And now we're starting to seetechnology coming up in that
middle space to join thingstogether so that there is
seamless flow between thedifferent parts of the
organization.
Um, and moving the data fromone's part to the next so that
you don't literally have to have59 tabs open on your computer.
But you've got one kind of majorpiece of software that's
starting to pull everything inand, and including or opening
(04:50):
the technology that you need.
And that's where we see some ofthe AI and automation,
automation based tech playingout.
So there, um, identifying thedata that you're working on,
pulling it out of the records sothat you don't have to retype
it, identifying the task thatneeds to be done next,
automating that task wherepossible and starting to, you
(05:11):
know, your job as a human is notto make the data move from step
to step.
Your job as a human is tounderstand, Hey, where are we up
to with that client?
Oh, okay.
This is what I now need to goand do and talk to that client
about, or that prospect about,and kind of really speeding up
that process of getting peopleinto market or getting their
property managed, you know,getting ahead of the curve of
(05:32):
managing their property asopposed to always being behind
what needs to be done.
Rob Turnbull (05:36):
It's funny, it's funny you say that.
So, um, in a couple of theprevious podcasts that we've
done, one of the key things wasintegrations and how everything
does sit as a silo.
And the issue is for a lot ofreal estate agencies or agencies
is they have all these differenttechnology platforms that don't
really talk to each other.
And they have all thesesubscriptions that they pay for.
And so they need SMEs, they needspecialists material experts on
(05:57):
each one of these things to beable to make them work.
And yet, um, the, the effort andthe power is bringing them
together, like you said, and Iguess here we have, um, what's
what we're seeing and maybe youcan comment on this is the
larger agency and agency groupsare helping put this together
because they have the scale toactually tie things together.
(06:17):
Whereas the smaller agents andagencies, the maybe 1 to 1 to 5,
1 to 7 agents in an agency havenot got the capacity to actually
bring all that tech together.
How do you see them winning inthis game?
Kylie Davis (06:31):
So there are two parts of it.
Um, and, what we're seeing too,from the big portals.
So for domain and realestate.
com is that they are now, theyhave been on a very aggressive
campaign of acquisition.
And so as MRI, you know, veryaggressive acquisition
campaigns, to make sure thatthey are not just one thing in
market.
So realestate.com and domain.comno longer wish to be seen as
(06:54):
just a portal where, you know,consumers go and they sell real
estate advertising.
They are looking at ways thatthey can deepen their
relationship with their, withtheir agent clients and also
with their consumers by offeringadditional products and
services.
And in the agency space,especially, or in the agent
space, you know, they're,they're really trying to be the
(07:14):
have the products that integrateand, um, and.
Um, then all start to worktogether.
Now, these, you know, evenbuying products, buying
companies and putting them intoyour mix is still, you still
need to take dev time to getthem to do all of that.
So not everybody's goteverything perfect yet.
One of the reasons where it's sohard at the moment is because we
are in this state of transitionfrom going to what we know what
(07:38):
we're told it should be able todo and what we believe it can
do.
But we're still stuck in whatwe've always used to be used to
do because there's a piece ofhard work in the middle of
getting it to work.
This, this ties back to one ofthe big trends that we're seeing
in the residential real estateindustry at the moment that
there is a lot more pressure onsmaller offices.
If you are a smaller office, itis probably easier in terms of
(08:01):
bandwidth and investment for youto stick with a bigger supplier
that can offer, you know, choosethe red or the green team,
whichever one you want to bewith and or MRI or or a bigger
provider that can basicallyprovide the full stack to you.
Um, but we are also seeing,bigger agencies are growing
bigger and they're doing that byabsorbing the smaller ones.
(08:22):
And we're seeing a change in thebusiness model in real estate
because it is becoming a lotmore expensive to manage both
the tech stack, the HR stack,all of the things that you need
to do now to be compliant as abusiness.
The barrier to entry of realestate is actually rising not
because it's hard to get a realestate license, but because of
the obligation you have as anemployer of other people in the
(08:43):
space.
Rob Turnbull (08:44):
Yeah, absolutely.
And, the tech divide iscertainly growing.
We're seeing that, um, I mean,locally here and you'd be seeing
at a national level as well.
If we look at the, the Proptechawards that recently happened,
um, uh, Property Edge, everyonewas, uh, was in, in the mix, but
unfortunately didn't winanything.
Um, But we did see MRI didreally, really well across the
(09:04):
board with a lot of differentplatforms.
What's the secret to theirsuccess?
Kylie Davis (09:10):
So, so MRI, if everyone remembers, bought the
PropTech group, um, what, a yearor two ago, about 18 months ago,
and have now basicallyintegrated all of that
technology into their, into,into the MRI ecosystem.
And, um, and I think what DavidBowie and Mark Cohen and, um,
uh, and Steve Grubb might havedone in that space is really
(09:33):
clever.
They have let those productsthat they bought in the PropTech
group.
So that included.
Vault, it included Investor, itincluded like, there was a ton
of tech that Eagle software,they, they, they got a whole,
they got literally a bunch ofbrands that if they tried to, if
you know, for a huge bargainprice, because if they tried to
(09:54):
build all that tech fromscratch, it would have cost them
more than what they paid.
So, um, I think David Bowes didsome very good shopping at that
event with them.
But, but what they have done isinstead of, um, merging and,
and, um, homogenizing it intoone big, you know, monstrous
platform.
They've kept the identities andthe business cases for each of
(10:15):
those products.
And they are basically workingthem all to their strength.
Rob Turnbull (10:19):
And that last bit there, the talk to each other
bit, the connection bits, thereally important one, isn't it?
Um, speaking of connections,taking it to a different style
though.
One, one of the key themes thatthe podcast so far has heard
from our guests is that realestate is a people business.
People buy from people.
People want real estate agentsin there for their expertise.
Are there any PropTechs thatyou're seeing, achieving a
(10:42):
balancing act, of both helping,improve efficiencies and improve
knowledge transfer whilst alsoimproving the relationship
between agent and vendor orbuyer.
Kylie Davis (10:55):
The goal is that you want to be introducing
Proptech, that you can clearlysee frees you up as an agent
because we all want to be peoplebusinesses, but being a people
business does not mean thatpeople do all the things.
What we want to get out of ourtechnology is that the things
(11:16):
that are keeping us busy, thatare making us feel frantic, that
we are struggling to juggle,that we are struggling to tick
to dot the i's and cross the t'son that make our days very, very
stressful.
That is the stuff that needs tobe organized and sorted and
handled by the Proptech so thatwe can then have better quality
(11:37):
conversations because we've gotthe information we need at our
fingertips and we've got thetime booked in to, to have the
relationships and to build therelationships with our clients.
And then the question is, sowhat technology have we already
bought that maybe we don't quiteunderstand what it's capable of
yet?
What little projects could we doin that space to understand
(11:57):
what's available better?
And that, they're like your easywins.
Like, well, let's introduce oneor two of those things into the
mix and see how that goes.
And then what can't we dobecause we just don't have the
tech?
And, and then how can we go andfind that tech to, to make it,
to make it work for us or makeit easy for us to make it easy
for us to deliver this amazingexperience that we want to give
(12:17):
our clients.
And, or remove this stress fromour team because this is crazy.
Rob Turnbull (12:23):
there's one thing I've seen in country South
Australia, a lot of the agentsthat I speak to, I live in the
country, and a lot of them are,um, older, essentially.
They've been running theirterritory for a long time.
They've got the relationships.
They've got their processes theylike to go through.
They've quite light touch ontech.
I'm speaking to them now andsome are concerned because
they're going to get leftbehind.
What do you say to thegenerational divide that's
(12:46):
starting to creep into realestate based on, tech savviness?
Kylie Davis (12:51):
I know this stuff is hard.
I know that it's hard to getyour brain around and I know
that it's hard to know, um,often who you can trust, if
you're looking for guidance orhelp with it.
But it is absolutely essentialthat you find a tech partner or
you bring someone into yourbusiness who is younger, who
gets it, who you can thenentrust to drive it.
(13:11):
And think about how we use ourmobile phones.
Like, do you.
And I'm going to put my hand up.
I couldn't tell you what myhusband's mobile phone number
is.
We've been married for 30 years.
He's had the same numberprobably for the last 15, but I
still couldn't tell you what itis.
I can tell you what my, my phonenumber is when I was, you know,
seven years old and living inGlen Waverley.
But I have not ever bothered toremember because I just, say,
(13:32):
Hey, Google phone, husband andhusband is on end of phone.
Like my brain doesn't Google isnow very confused.
Because,
Rob Turnbull (13:47):
That's a case in point.
Well played.
Kylie Davis (13:50):
yeah, that wasn't set up.
But so, what we're doing as asociety is that we are basically
delegating parts of our brain,parts of our brain and parts of
our memory and the need to thinkabout things into the
technology.
And as a business owner, thestuff in your head is your IP,
(14:10):
getting it out of your head andinto the processes and practices
of your business is what makesyour business saleable.
So, okay, you don't get the techunderstood completely
understand, but you have anoperating system and an
operating process, which isdeeply personal and, um, and
probably very, very connectedwith your community.
So you need to map that.
(14:32):
And then find someone who canhelp you match, match this, the
steps or the structure into thetech so that you have a saleable
business as part of it, becauseotherwise you've just had a job
for the last X number of yearsand you're basically, um, going
to sell your rent role for facevalue.
Rob Turnbull (14:51):
I know a lot of people are going to get value
from that.
Because on the other, on theflip side.
I speak to younger agents andthey're loving tech, they're
gobbling it up, they're eatingit, they're absolutely killing
it.
But, potentially and a couple ofour previous guests have talked
about it, they also haven't hadthe mentoring to understand the
other side of it, therelationship building side, the
people side of things.
(15:12):
And that's where that experiencedoes come in.
So for each agency it would be areal delicate balancing act that
we need to go through.
now, Kylie, you run the verylong term and very popular
Proptech association or Proptechpodcast.
Um, do you want to tell ourlisteners about that?
Kylie Davis (15:30):
Oh, look, uh, so the podcast is well, at the
moment, a bit occasional, but wetry to regularly interview new
tech out in the market orunderstand what's going on in
older tech and what their plansare as they, as they buy or
adopt new technology.
And, um, and it's just really agreat way to find out what's
happening in the market and, andwho people are and what they do.
Rob Turnbull (15:52):
we've also got Proptech conference coming up in
November in Sydney.
Do you want to tell the folksabout that?
Kylie Davis (15:58):
So the Proptech Forum is happening on the 14th
of November, Thursday, the 14thof November in Sydney at the New
South Wales Teachers Federation.
That the forum is very proudlyby the geeks for the geeks.
So if you are a Proptechyourself, or you're just really
passionate about the space, comealong.
If you're a real estate agentand you'd like to hear about
(16:18):
what's going to hit you in thenext three to five years, this,
this is a fantastic place to getsort of ahead of the curve, but,
the goal of the, um, the, theday is to bring Proptechs
together to support this, thisculture of collaboration and,
and, and integration, andintegration will be a very big,
ticket on the agenda as well.
And looking at what we need tobe doing as a sector to make it
(16:40):
easier for our clients to dobusiness with us
Rob Turnbull (16:42):
Kylie, you're on LinkedIn.
If anyone wants to follow youand your association, find Kylie
on LinkedIn, thank you for yourwords of wisdom today, a lot to
take home.
I think, as we look at PropertyEdge, I know our dev team will
be listening to this podcast andlearning a few different ideas
about things I need to thinkabout in the the roadmap as we
build that product out, butthank you for your time today.
Kylie Davis (17:06):
Pleasure.
Thank you for having me.
Rob Turnbull (17:08):
And everyone, thanks for listening.
Once again, the Property Edgepodcast is available on all your
streaming services, and pleasedo subscribe to our newsletter.
If you'd like this sort ofcontent and want to hear from us
more until the next episode, byebye.
sonic logo Mhm.
(17:32):
Mhm.
Mhm.
Kylie Davis (18:04):
Okay.
(18:39):
Hey, Rob, great to be here.
Thank you.
Sure.
Um, so Kylie Davis, I'm thepresident of the Proptech
Association, and I'm also amarketing consultant that
specializes in, um, Proptechmarketing and getting Proptechs
(19:04):
um, to market with new products.
Um, my background is I had 25years in media.
I worked for the big mediacompanies, News Corp and
Fairfax.
My last gig in newspapers wasactually as national real
estate.
editor at the, uh, at News Corpworking with Tom Panos across
the whole country and all of thereal estate publications with
that.
(19:24):
As part of that, I introducedthis thing called, um, RP data
to the journalists and we taughtthem how to cover real estate,
um, market data and, and trainthem on data research.
It is my fault that everyone nowreads so much about, you know,
what Individual property marketsare doing even right down to a
suburb level every single week.
So I apologise to everyone forthat, but as part of that, I got
(19:46):
to know the RP Data CoreLogicteam really well, had five years
with CoreLogic, um, and my rolethere was basically meeting all
of these new emerging companiesthat were coming out that were
doing cool things withCoreLogic's data.
And that is how I got into thePropTech space.
(20:08):
Uh, yeah, we're, we're sort ofheading in next, I think we're
heading into, we're four yearsold heading into our fifth year
next year.
We're about to do it, we do anAGM at the end of this year, so
I think that's our fourth.
2020, yeah, 2020 was when welaunched, we launched the week
before COVID hit.
hit Yeah.
(20:56):
So in the, in the, um, in thebroad church that is PropTech
and PropTech adoption,residential real estate is
actually one of the first andearliest adopters of PropTech.
So, you know, we, we werecutting edge when it came to
realestate.com and, and RP dataand, um, you know, even
property, uh, properties.
back in the rock end days.
(21:16):
Like these are old, these arelegacy companies in the Proptech
space and residential realestate has been almost like a
proving ground of the value andthe, um, and the capability of
Proptech that we haven't seen tothat degree in commercial real
estate.
And we certainly haven't seenthat to that degree in any way,
shape or form in construction.
(21:36):
Um, like with the, the, Youknow, construction is, is way,
way, way behind.
Um, but all of these things needto come together if we're going
to solve the really big chewyproblems that exist in housing
supply and getting housing tomarket and all of those things.
But in residential real estatewhere, so the market's quite
mature, what I would call maturein that there are a lot of
(21:57):
established players.
Uh, there's a lot of, um,scaling.
Players that have come all theway through and, and from
startup into now verging onestablished players, a lot of
the CRMs fit that bill.
And what we are seeing in, inresidential Proptech is that
sales and marketing technology.
Everyone's pretty comfortablewith that.
(22:18):
Now, backend technology, we'veseen like major improvements in
how back office works, um, interms of using a CRM in terms
of, um, and property management.
Um, You know, tasking and we'reseeing a lot of stuff there and
where the bits happening in themiddle is joining up between
sales and marketing and admin.
(22:39):
And we're seeing kind of rightat the moment, the gap has been,
that's been one silo, that'sbeen another silo.
And now we're starting to seetechnology coming up in that
middle space to join thingstogether so that there is
seamless flow between thedifferent parts of the
organization.
Um, and moving the data fromone's part to the next so that
you don't literally have to have59 tabs open on your computer.
(23:03):
But you've got one kind of majorpiece of software that's
starting to pull everything inand, and including or opening
the technology that you need.
And that's where we see some ofthe AI and automation,
automation based tech playingout.
So there, um, identifying thedata that you're working on,
pulling it out of the records sothat you don't have to retype
(23:24):
it, identifying the task thatneeds to be done next,
automating that task wherepossible and starting to, you
know, your job as a human is notto make the data move from step
to step.
Your data as a human is your jobas a human is to understand,
Hey, where are we up to withthat client?
Oh, okay.
This is what I now need to goand do and talk to that client
about, or that prospect about,and kind of really speeding up
(23:47):
that process of getting people.
into market as a, or gettingtheir property managed, you
know, getting ahead of the curveof managing their property as
opposed to always being behindwhat needs to be done.
(24:58):
Uh, so, so there's sort of,yeah, so there are two parts of
it.
Um, and, What we're seeing too,from the big portals.
So for domain and realestate.
com is that they are now, theyhave been on a very aggressive
campaign of acquisition.
And so as MRI, you know, veryaggressive acquisition
campaigns, um, to make sure thatthey are not just one thing in
(25:21):
market.
So realestate.com and domain.comno longer wish to be seen as
just a portal where, you know,consumers go and they sell real
estate advertising.
They are looking at ways thatthey can deepen their
relationship with their, withtheir agent clients and also
with their consumers by offeringadditional products and
services.
And in the agency space,especially, or in the agent
(25:43):
space, you know, they're,they're really trying to be the
have the products that integrateand, um, and.
Um, then all start to worktogether.
Now, these, you know, evenbuying products, um, as a
buying, you know, buyingcompanies and putting them into
your mix is still, you stillneed to take dev time to get
them to do all of that.
So not everybody's goteverything perfect yet.
(26:04):
One of the reasons, um, whereit's so hard at the moment is
because we are in this state oftransition from going to what we
know what we're told it shouldbe able to do and what we
believe it can do.
But we're still stuck in whatwe've always used to be used to
do because there's a piece ofhard work in the middle of
getting it to work.
So your options as an agent, uh,and and this kind of ties into
(26:27):
one of the bigger trends thatwe're seeing in the residential
industry at the moment.
It's sorry about that.
Um, is that This, this ties backto one of the big trends that
we're seeing in the residentialreal estate industry at the
moment that there is a lot morepressure on smaller offices.
If you are a smaller office, itis probably easier in terms of
(26:50):
bandwidth and investment for youto stick with a bigger supplier
that can offer.
You know, choose the red or thegreen team, whichever one you
want to be with and or MRI or ora bigger provider that can
basically provide the full stackto you.
Um, but we are also seeing, youknow, the grow bigger agencies
(27:12):
are growing bigger and they'redoing that.
by absorbing the smaller ones.
And we're seeing a change in thebusiness model in real estate
because it is becoming a lotmore expensive to manage both
the tech stack, the HR stack,all of the things that you need
to do now to be compliant as abusiness.
The barrier to entry of realestate is actually coming, is
actually rising not because it'shard to get a real estate
(27:32):
license, but because of theobligation you have as an
employer of other people in thespace.
(28:03):
Yeah.
So, so MRI, if everyoneremembers, bought the PropTech
group, um, what, a year or twoago, about 18 months ago, and
have now basically integratedall of that technology into
their, into, into the MRIecosystem.
And, um, and I think what DavidBowie and Mark Cohen and, um,
(28:26):
uh, and Steve Grubb might havedone in that space is really
clever.
They have let those productsthat they bought in the PropTech
group.
So that included.
Vault, it included Investor, itincluded like, there was a ton
of tech that Eagle software,they, they, they got a whole,
they got literally a bunch ofbrands that if they tried to, if
(28:47):
you know, for a huge bargainprice, because if they tried to
build all that tech fromscratch, it would have cost them
more than what they paid.
So, um, I think David Bowes didsome very good shopping at that
event with them.
But, but what they have done isinstead of, um, merging and,
and, um, homogenizing it intoone big, you know, monstrous
platform.
(29:08):
They've kept the identities andthe business cases for each of
those products.
And they are basically workingthem all to their strength.
Um, which is why they were suchattractive propositions in the
first place.
And so, um, so this year MRIbasically entered those
different products into each oftheir categories.
And some of them were verystrong, um, were very strong
(29:28):
products and, and, and broughthome the, the, the gold for
them.
MRI have a, MRI have a veryclever, um, framework that
they're working to, which theycall the, the Agora and the
(29:50):
Agora, the MRI Agora.
And Agora is the old Latin wordor Roman word for marketplace.
And so they have basicallycreated a marketplace inside
their platform where all of theproducts that they have, and
then any of.
The any other Proptechs thatwish to become a partner with
MRI makes it easy for them tointegrate.
And then once you are acceptedinto the Agora, it is easy for
(30:13):
the agents that are in thatspace to, you know, pick and mix
the technology that they want touse.
And the, and the goal is thatthey then all, because they're
all inside the same kind offramework, they all start to
work together much more easily.
So you still got, you know, the,the build your own adventure
opportunity around what tech youwant to use.
But you can do that knowingthat.
(30:33):
Well, these guys all, these guysall talk to each other, so it's
not going to be quite as hard.
(31:47):
I think that's the goal of everyPropTech to do that, but the,
there's, there's kind of threekey Areas that every real estate
agent needs to understand abouthow to use the, how to, how to
get the most out of PropTech andhow to, regardless of, of, of
what it is or, or how, how your,what you want it, what it, what
(32:09):
it says, what the tin says itdoes, right?
The goal is.
That you want to be introducingProptech that you can clearly
see frees you up as an agentbecause we all want to be people
businesses, but being a peoplebusiness does not mean that
people do all the things what wewant to get out of out of our
(32:31):
technology is that the thingsthat are keeping us busy, that
are making us feel frantic, thatwe are struggling to juggle,
that we are struggling to tickto dot the I's and cross the T's
on that make our days very, verystressful.
That is the stuff that needs tobe organized and sorted and
handled by the Proptech so thatwe can then have better quality
(32:55):
conversations because we've gotthe information we need at our
fingertips and we've got thetime booked in to, to have the
relationships and to build therelationships with our clients.
So the technology that is outthere is not seeking to take
down the that away from realestate agents.
It's actually seeking to supportagents to do that better.
But the only way that the propthat Proptech can function is
(33:19):
through data.
And so you absolutely an agent,real estate agents have a
curious relationship withproperty data.
I'm going to, I'm going to bediplomatic.
And, and, and the curiosity is,is that residential real, the
residential real estate datasets in Australia are well
(33:39):
known, well established, quiteclear, um, have been around for
a very long time, and we've allbeen using them for a very long
time.
And agents, um, uh, kind of the,the core source of that.
And you need to, um, um,understand what good data looks
like.
And, and you actually need tounderstand the importance of
(34:00):
contributing your data to thebig picture while maintaining
ownership and oversight of yourdata.
So it's not like, well, I giveall my data to realestate.
com and then that's it.
I never see it again and theyjust sell it back to me and I
end up with a bigger bill.
That's, that's not what I'msaying.
But what you need to understandis what parts of the forms that
I'm filling in or the, the datathat I'm collecting.
(34:23):
Is common, easily available.
What is the stuff that I only Iknow, or my agency knows, and
how do I actually use thetechnology that's out there to
completely automate the stuffthat is, is, is out there
generally.
That is, you know, this is whatthe general market's doing.
This is what the whole suburbsdoing.
(34:44):
This is what the whole state ofSouth Australia is doing.
But what is my view on thatthrough the data that I can see
that only I can see.
You know, because, because I'm,I farm these territories, I, I
own these areas, like, this is,this is what I do.
And then how can I actually beincorporating that data with the
technology that I've got toreally super power both my
(35:06):
conversations and to super powermy, um, my dominance of my
market and my understanding ofmy market and to give my team
really, really great tools init.
And then how can I overlaythings like I or, um, you know,
like Rita or any of the productsout there that basically start
to then say, well, because weknow this about us, We think
(35:27):
this is going to happen next, orwe can see that next week is
going to start to look like, youknow, and start to actually
manage and project that stuffinto the future.
So you need to be really clearon your human proposition.
Like, what do we want to do?
How do we want to communicate?
How do we want to do that?
And, and, uh, and what, whatdoes a great relationship with
(35:47):
us as an agency look like?
You need to be really clear onwhy do we struggle to do that at
the moment?
And the answer to that will behere's a list of things that are
keeping us busy that are takingtime away from us doing that.
And then the question is, sowhat technology have we already
bought that maybe we don't quiteunderstand what it's capable of
yet?
What could we What littleprojects could we do in that
(36:09):
space to understand what'savailable better?
And that, they're like your easywins.
Like, well, let's introduce oneor two of those things into the
mix and see how that goes.
And then what, what, what can'twe do because we just don't have
the tech?
And, and then how can we go andfind that tech to, to make it,
to make it work for us or makeit easy for us to make it easy
(36:30):
for us to deliver this amazingexperience that we want to give
our clients.
And, or.
remove this stress from our teambecause this is crazy.
It's probably, it's probablygonna sound well, it's probably
(37:38):
gonna sound a bit harsh.
And here's the, it's absolutely,I know this stuff is hard.
I know that it's hard to getyour brain around and I know
that it's hard to know, um,often who you can trust, um, if
you're looking for guidance orhelp with it.
Um, but it is absolutelyessential that you find a tech
(37:59):
partner or you find or you bringsomeone into your business who
is younger, who gets it, who youcan then entrust to drive it.
And it's especially important ifyou are an older agent who is
looking to exit in the next fiveyears because the knowledge.
So, so this is what technologyis doing right now.
And think about how we use ourmobile phones.
(38:19):
Like, do you.
And I'm going to put my hand up.
I couldn't tell you what myhusband's mobile phone number
is.
We've been married for 30 years.
He's had the same numberprobably for the last 15, but I
still couldn't tell you what itis.
I can tell you what my, my phonenumber is when I was, you know,
seven years old and living inGlen Waverley.
But I have not ever bothered toremember because I just, say,
Hey, Google phone, husband andhusband is on end of phone.
(38:43):
Like my brain doesn't Google isnow very confused.
Because, yeah, that wasn't setup.
But so, so, so what we've done,what we're doing as a society is
(39:05):
that we are basically Delegatingparts of our brain, parts of our
brain and parts of our memoryand the need to think about
things into the technology.
And as a business owner, this isactually, The stuff in your head
is your IP, getting it out ofyour head and into the processes
and practices of your businessis what makes your business
(39:26):
saleable.
And when it comes time toretire, so it's absolute.
So, okay, you don't get the techunderstood completely
understand, but you have a wayof operate, you have an
operating system and anoperating process, which is
deeply personal and, um, andprobably very, very connected
with your community.
So you need to map that.
(39:46):
And then find someone who canhelp you match, match this, the
steps or the structure into thetech so that you have a saleable
business as part of it, becauseotherwise you've just had a job
for the last X number of yearsand you're basically, um, going
to sell your rent role for facevalue.
Yeah.
(41:41):
Uh, so, so a couple of things.
So Reapered and MRI areinternational businesses that
purchase local businesses andthen use that as their, as their
footprint to, to break off.
So they are still, even thoughthey're globally owned, they are
still very much Australianbusinesses in their core
offerings.
Um, they have introduced, Ithink one or two things each,
(42:02):
um, that they see can work inthe market.
Australian tech is really wellplaced to export because the,
the very, uh, delightful natureof, federated nature of our, um,
our decision making, you know,governance that sits over real
estate here in Australia.
So we don't have a federalsystem.
We have a go, you know, localsystem of, um, of state
(42:23):
governments.
So if you're a tech business,you have to dev to local.
laws and compliance in eightdifferent states and
territories.
I think that's how many there,seven, eight, whatever, whatever
the number is.
Um, I'm never sure.
I know, I know NorthernTerritory is not a territory
anymore, but I can neverremember where, where, where
campus is.
(42:46):
She said it so authoritatively.
I'm pretty sure there'ssomething, okay.
Um, so, but if you can, if youcan develop technology that can
cope with that level of, of, um,From a tech point of view, the
fact that the legislation isdifferent doesn't change the
fact that why the legislationexists.
So, so there is sort ofdifferent outcomes that sit at
the, at, in the, in the tech,but, but the, but the, the
(43:10):
capability to, Accommodate thatis the same capability.
So for Australian technology tosay, yeah, well, we've done it
for eight.
Let's do it for another 52 inthe U S like how hard can that
be?
I mean, it can be hard, butit's, it's a piece of work to be
done, but you've already got thecapability in the business.
It's about scaling it.
It's not about rethinking howyou go about it.
(43:40):
So I, I live in Russell Lee,which is part of Canada Bay.
And we are, um, on the runway.
Well, we're underneath the.
the third, the flight path thatgoes over the water, the third
runway.
Uh, and, um, so on a, on a, on abeautiful, clear day, it is very
chaos, chaos here.
If it, if it's terribly windy,we don't get anyone cause it's
(44:01):
too busy.
But the temperature, theweather's too bad.
Um, they're worst when they takeoff.
Um, any who, um, so where werewe?
Uh, we're talking about, uh,yeah, so, so it's pretty easy
for Australian tech to export.
Kiwi tech comes into the countryquite easily because they use us
(44:25):
as a test case to see if theycan scale, um, cause of the,
cause of the complexity.
Um, and what we see is, um, butwhat we see is that, uh,
American and UK tech struggles abit more here because They're
not because in, I think, um, UKtech, cause we, they don't have
(44:48):
the level of complexity aroundstructure that we do.
And they also have sometimeshave a rather interesting
attitude to us being a formercolony.
And, um, and so that we'd loveto some UK Proptechs out there,
but some of them have had somevery interesting attitudes and,
um, and the Americans, I thinkfor a lot of the American
(45:10):
technology, we're too small themarket to really.
Like, there's, there's, there'sbigger, easier fish to fry over
there than before they start tolook at coming over here.
It's not until they are at thatsize and scale like MRI or
CoreLogic that they sort of go,you know what?
We should, Australia's a prettygood jumping ground for Asia.
We should, we should look intothat.
And that's when they, that'swhen they start to come over.
(45:42):
Yeah.
Yeah, the property market inAustralia, though, behaves very,
very differently to the U.
S.
property market.
And while, as Australians, wehave no problem going into the
U.
S.
and accommodating thatdifference, the idea that, uh,
that the U.
S.
that the core of the U.
S.
technology around how agentsbehave and what agents do,
(46:05):
coming over here, They, theyhaven't, I haven't really seen a
fantastic example yet in theresidential space of US tech
coming over here because,because they really struggle to
cope with, what do you mean youdon't have a bias agent in the
deal?
Like, well, hang on.
That's half, that's a half ourtech stack.
How do we, so they struggle tomake the, the dollars work for
(46:26):
them.
(46:51):
Oh, look, uh, so the podcast isa, uh, occasional, well, at the
moment, a bit occasional, but wetry to regularly interview new
tech out in the market orunderstand what's going on in
older tech and what their plansare as they, as they buy or
adopt new technology.
And, um, and it's just really agreat way to find out.
(47:12):
What's happening in the marketand, and who people are and what
they do.
Um, one of the, one of themistakes I see agents make or
agencies make is that they,there's over 600 Proptechs out
in market at the moment.
And what we try to do as humanbeings is, um, understand all of
them so we can work out if whatthey've got is useful to us.
And, and that's not really theright way to go about it.
(47:33):
Um, and trust me, cause I'vetried to learn them all and it's
impossible.
Um, We're better off toactually, like we were talking
about before, understand whatwe, what we, what great service
looks like for us and to thenhear about or dive into who's
offering those sort of solutionsthat can fill those gaps for us.
Um, and the other best way to dothat is to not sort of turn it
(47:56):
into, you know, really nastyadulting homework.
But if there's a way that ifyou're in the car and you've
got, and you just want to hearwhat's going on in the sector,
Um, it's a really easy, gentleway for your brain to kind of
start to put some, join somedots together.
Rob Turnbull (48:28):
the
Kylie Davis (48:35):
Yeah.
So the Proptech forum ishappening on the 14th of
November, Thursday, the 14th ofNovember in Sydney at the New
South Wales Teachers Federation.
Our keynote speaker is SteveVamos, who's the former CEO of
Xero and also the Australianmanaging director of Microsoft
and also of Apple.
Um, so we're really lookingforward to hearing from him that
(48:59):
the forum is very proudly, um,by the geeks for the geeks.
So if you are a Proptechyourself, or you're just really
passionate about the space, um,come along.
We will be talking about, um,AI, uh, data naming hierarchy
conventions.
Uh, uh, we will be talking aboutcyber security, um, best
(49:20):
practice.
We will be like all the, uh,like it, it is where.
It's the tribe that gets yourvibe if you're really into tech.
If you're a real estate agentand you'd like to hear about
what's going to hit you in thenext three to five years, this,
this is a fantastic place to getsort of ahead of the curve, but,
um, um, uh, you know, but we'realso, there's a whole lot of
(49:40):
stuff going on in energyefficiency at the moment that's
impacting technology.
But the goal of the, um, the,the day is to bring Proptechs
together to support this, thisculture of collaboration and,
and, and integration, uh, and,and integration will be a very
big, um, ticket on the, on theagenda as well.
And looking at what we need tobe doing as a sector to make it
(50:01):
easier for our clients to dobusiness with us proudly and
unashamedly.
Yeah, I am, I'm seriouslythinking of getting some
propeller hats, but I, I don'tknow if I can, I don't know if
(50:22):
our budget was stretched.
I know, they'd be awesome.
(50:56):
Pleasure.
Thank you for having me.
(51:18):
Thank you.
Pleasure.
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