November 1, 2024 • 30 mins
In this episode of the Property Edge podcast, we dive into cutting-edge tools, tech, and perspectives with Luke Holden, Sales Director at Ouwens Casserly (OC) in Adelaide.
He discusses OC's unique approach to integrating technology and AI to boost efficiency and sales. Luke shares insights on the 'OC way,' detailing how 70% standard practices combined with 30% individual flair enhance performance.
From the importance of user-friendly tech adoption to the benefits of AI in communication and customer journey management, this episode offers valuable lessons for real estate professionals.
00:00 Introduction and Overview
00:48 Meet Luke Holden: Sales Director at OC
01:18 OC's Unique Approach to Real Estate
03:02 Tech and Decision Making at OC
05:39 Implementation and Adoption of Tech
08:10 Cost Management and Efficiency
11:59 Customer Experience and Personalization
23:03 Future of Tech and AI in Real Estate
27:22 Change Management and Adoption Strategies
30:00 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Visit www.propertyedge.app/the-property-edge-podcast to see other episodes, see episode summaries and read transcripts.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
sonic logo
Rob (00:04):
Today's episode or the property edge podcast.
Luke (00:07):
Fundamentally we call it an OC way.
There's like a 70 percentunderpinning of, tasks or things
that every agent needs to do,right?
They need to prospect, they needto lead generate, et cetera.
And then you've got theadditional 20, 30 percent
individual flair that we neverever want to change because
that's what makes everybody sounique.
Sometimes the best way to bringpeople on a journey is through
(00:28):
proof.
So we need to show the benefitsand have internal case studies
of how systems or AI has helpedan individual.
Importantly, from a salesperspective, we're seeing that
now correlate into actual sales,listings, and appraisals as
well.
Mhm.
Rob (00:48):
Hello and welcome to the Property Edge podcast where we
discover the tools, the tech,the AI and the perspectives that
are giving South Australian realestate leaders their edge.
And today I'm delighted to bejoined by a real local leader.
Luke Holden is the salesdirector of OC Ouwens Casserly
here in Adelaide.
Welcome Luke.
Luke (01:08):
Thanks Rob.
Great to be here.
Rob (01:10):
Thanks so much for joining.
I'm really excited to speak toyou today.
Can you just give us an overviewof who you are, your background,
and then a little bit about OCas well.
Luke (01:18):
Yeah, sure.
So just starting with OC we'rean independent agency located
here in Adelaide, SouthAustralia, with several of what
we call hubs and spokes.
So we've got approximately sixgeographical offices spread
across Adelaide.
We're selling approximately froma resi space between 1300 to
1400 properties per annum with aspecialist also division that
specializes in, in projects arent role, quite a substantial
(01:41):
rent role that we've built overtime.
As well, I guess, my kind ofrole here I'm the sales director
also a partner with Nathan andAlex as well in the business on
both PM and sales.
And my kind of primary function,I guess, is more revenue
orientated whereby I oversee thesales entity and all the agents,
but also take care of newbusiness within property
(02:02):
management as well.
So I have a role to play interms of the organic growth that
we develop within our, withinour rent role.
And I guess like from thefunctions point of view, I, I
still, I still dabble a littlebit with sales.
It's always good to keep yourkeep your toe in the water and
your, your finger on the pulseare still out there doing
auctions as well.
But I guess like my primary roleis, is, is really in the
development of our people.
(02:22):
I play a role in, in mentoringand coaching some of our staff
here internally developingtalent, talent internally, as
well as assisting.
We've what we call theonboarding and boarding process
of people as they come into theorganization as well.
So I really see agents here atOC, as our customers, our
clients.
And so my role in my, my, myteam is really to empower them.
(02:46):
that can be through not onlytheir development, but also the
tools and systems and processesand procedures that we put in
place to really underpin andhelp them to succeed and achieve
their own goals and aspirationsthrough properly as well.
So that's kind of my journey O.
C.
And where we're at.
Yeah.
Rob (03:02):
Yeah, and what I love to hear you mentioned just before
we started recording is thatyou've got a history in software
and so you get the tech spacereally, really well.
So, so how are decisions made inthe software space at OC?
What sort of process do you gothrough?
What's your tech team like?
Luke (03:19):
Yeah.
I think, yeah, I have a veryunique background, I guess you
could say.
I left school early and wentinto it in the UK.
Learning initially into thehardware, hardware and
infrastructure side of things,but that developed into
software, software engineering,and to roll the clock forward, I
ended up living in Australia,setting up a business in Sydney,
(03:41):
working with approximately 15developers across the country,
developing software for anadvertising, well, multiple
advertising companies, to behonest role was to go in there
to sell the product.
So that's where the salesbackground comes in play to
consult with them and then todevelop the product to suit the
user's needs as well.
So I have, an extensive kind ofbackground.
(04:02):
I'm still certified withMicrosoft and everything else.
but I guess that's kind ofreally assisted in my role now
and where I find myself in thatafter selling for a number of
years, we won't say for howlong, but selling real estate
for a number of years in bothAdelaide and interstate.
It's given me a really goodappreciation understanding of
(04:23):
functions of a sales agent.
And, and I think fundamentallywe call it an OC way.
There's like a 70 percentunderpinning of, I guess you
could say tasks or things thatevery agent needs to do, right?
They need to prospect, they needto lead generate, et cetera.
And then you've got theadditional 20, 30 percent
individual flair that we neverever want to change because
that's what makes everybody sounique.
(04:45):
So my role in terms of decisionmaking here within OSC is really
how we can provide greaterefficiency within the
organization, how we can reallytake a holistic approach
fundamentally around thecustomer all aspects of the
business as well.
We have an external dataconsultant.
That's purely just worksalongside myself and my team to
make sure that our CRM is set upcorrectly that we can run with
(05:09):
repetitive scripts to clean thatdata so that we can get the best
use of any, any systems we'reusing.
We also have a tech specialistin terms of systems within real
estate.
That's really at the forefrontof development and products, new
products worldwide as well.
So we get a bit of insight interms of what's happening
internationally as well asnationally.
And then we have like a businessconsultancy as well that sits
(05:29):
across our PM and sales.
So we really try to partnerourself with the right people
that can help us to make bestuse of all of our tech tech
stack.
across our organization.
And I think one of thefundamental roles that I
identified that we really neededwas an implementation
specialist.
So we actually have somebody inthe business that purely just
(05:49):
specializes in assisting ouragents in terms of the adoption
of systems, the adoption ofsoftware.
But more importantly,customising that journey for
that agent so that the softwaresuits them, not the other way
around.
So, with any product that webring in, we need to make sure
that, yeah, it facilitates thefundamentals, but it also allows
(06:11):
that 20 30 percent flair.
And so, yeah implementationspecialists will align
themselves with an agent.
We call it the boarding processhere at OC.
We've got the onboarding, whichis when somebody comes into the
business, they learn about allthe people and the organization
and everything else, but it'sthe boarding process that
usually lasts for 6 to 12 monthsin making sure that all the
infrastructure around thatindividual is set up in a way to
(06:33):
help them to succeed.
Rob (06:35):
I just find that really interesting the way you've put
it.
So.
In a lot of the conversations wehave with agencies and other
businesses, it's always aboutonboarding or boarding on team
members to understand how to usethe tech and use it the company
way.
And you've gone the other waysaying we want the tech to, to
(06:55):
facilitate the way the userwants to use it.
That's a really different way oflooking at it.
And I'm sure you're seeingbetter success with that too.
Luke (07:04):
Absolutely.
I mean, since the, since thatrole was created, we've seen a
greater uptake in all systems.
So the change management controlthat we have here is
significantly changed.
I think the day of when a systembecomes available or a product
available and you just switch iton and it's unreasonable in my
opinion to expect an agent tojust sit there and configure
(07:26):
system to work for them.
it's not just about flick aswitch.
Let's let's put this plug ininto our CRM and expect an
agent.
to facilitate that.
Because the natural flare of anagent, they're more people based
people, right?
We work in a relationship basedindustry.
And so, you know, tech people attimes don't share that same
profile.
(07:46):
what we need to do is we need toensure that our tech stack
reflects the agent and not theother way around.
And that's where you get betterbuy in, better integration, and
I say we get betterimplementation within the
organization.
As opposed to leaving to theindividuals to configure for
themselves.
lets really assist them anddrive that for them.
It's not about taking control.
It's just making sure that it'sset up in a way that suits and
(08:08):
reflects the individual.
Yeah,
Rob (08:10):
There's one issue that we all have so many subscriptions
start adding up and your monthlyor annual your fees start to
become a little bit eyewatering.
So how do you play that area?
Luke (08:19):
definitely the cost of doing business is getting more
expensive, right?
And that includes technology aswell.
We went through a period ofconsolidation within our tech
stack over the last 2 or 3years.
We've gone from probably 8 or 9products and then really pare
that down so that we're probablyjust using 3 or 4, but we're
using a much better and we'restarting to see the output.
So in terms of decision makingprocess, yes, we definitely look
(08:43):
into the usage of the individualproducts because it will do two
things.
One, have we done our job wellin terms of the implementation
of that product and what do weneed to reflect?
So we're constantly trying toreview and reflect on what we
can do better.
But secondly, then, look, do weactually need to hold some more
workshops?
Are the skill sets of theseindividuals not at the level
that we thought?
Do we need to actually pair itback?
(09:03):
Can we actually accelerate thepace?
We have a library within ourinfrastructure, um, of various
training courses which relate tothe various products that we do
use.
And so what we do is we ensurethat people are progressing
through those courses So at thevery end they're extremely
competent and know exactly whatthey're doing.
And what we're actually seeinginternally is a significant
(09:24):
increase in the adoption of theproducts that we've implemented.
But more importantly, from asales perspective, we're seeing
that now correlate into actualsales, listings, and appraisals
as well.
So, the greatest way to bring asalesperson on a journey, Rob?
Is to justify what you'rebringing in for them.
(09:45):
And we're now starting to showthat by having evidence of, you
know, a significant increase inthe inbound appraisal requests
that we're generating throughour tech suite.
and that includes listings andsales that we're being paid for
as well.
Rob (09:58):
So in other words, show me the money and and I'll follow
what you do.
Luke (10:01):
Think that's the psych, that's the, that's the mentality
of most salespeople, the bestway, as I say, to bring them on
the journey is justify howthat's going to have a positive
influence on their on theirwallet.
Rob (10:11):
That's that's OC creating these tools, is it?
Luke (10:13):
We call it the OC way.
So it's a, it's a library oftutorials and training workshops
that we've developed internally,which is teaching the agents how
to use or adopt the product intheir own way.
so yeah, it's, it's, it's asuite of courses that we put
together ourselves internally.
Rob (10:31):
I noticed that you you're you'll be opening a Goolwa
office in in about a month'stime.
That's about right.
So my guess would be that thenew team down there, they'd all
be given access to all thisstuff now and be jumping in,
going through those videos,trying to understand the OC way
so that when when, when itopens, they're, they're up and
running, but they probablyalready are up and running,
(10:52):
aren't they?
Luke (10:54):
They're definitely up and running, definitely up and
running and already hitting thegoals already.
So, yeah.
So.
It depends on the individual,Rob, to be completely honest
with you, we find that someindividuals respond better from
face to face and some, some arecomfortable working through, you
know, loom videos or, you know,just reading through tutorials.
(11:14):
but that's a great example thatyou've just touched upon is that
my implementation specialist isjust down there constantly
helping the team, ensuring we'rebringing them up to speed.
So they've obviously beenintroduced into O.
C.
and that comes through people inculture, the marketing
department, etcetera, and thenthey then pass through into our
channel, which is implement theimplementation specialists in
(11:35):
the sales space, which is makingsure that we're now getting them
up to speed and making sure theproducts suit them well in terms
of how they pitch for business,how they follow up the business,
how they are prospecting etc.
So our implementation specialistis down there on a regular basis
to bring them up to speed veryvery quickly and as I say, yeah,
we're certainly seeing theeffects of that because we're
(11:57):
already we're hitting the groundpretty hard there.
Rob (11:59):
Well, perhaps you might give us a bit of a walk through
your tech stack.
If you're happy to name names,name names or don't, not fussed,
but also how you connect themall together.
Luke (12:09):
Yeah, sure.
The connection piece is thesometimes the most challenging
to be honest with you andfundamentally we always start
with two CRMs and that's yoursales CRM and that's your
property management CRM as well.
And there's a variety ofproducts that you've got out
there for sales.
We use Agent Box to be honestwith you.
works really, really well.
(12:30):
ProbablyMe in a propertymanagement space.
but we, we try to ensure thatwe've got some sort of
connection between the two.
So that, for example, Rob, ifyou were one of our landlords
and you're managing fiveproperties under OC and I'll
meet you in an open inspection,I really want to know about that
because you're, you're a really,really important client to OC.
So we, we, we're working very,very hard on that kind of
(12:53):
connection between all aspectsof the organization.
And again, fundamentally, anydecision that we make, is all
around empowering our agents andeverybody else in the
organisation.
But for me, it comes all the wayup into that customer
experience.
So we're really looking at howtech and our tech stack
compliment and improving ourcustomer experience forward.
(13:17):
Then you've got the peripheralkind of services that kind of
have a two way, if you like,integration to these various
CRMs and just to keep it reallysimple.
And we have in our sales space,we have a lead generational tool
and communication a tool thatsits across the CRM, uses CRM
(13:38):
and it presents it to an agentor presents it to a client.
We're one of very few agenciesto the best of my knowledge that
now communicates to the client,be that a buyer or a seller
based on information relevant totheir search or their journey.
So we actually have people inour system that are tagged as
upsizers, investors, first homebuyers that go through a journey
(13:59):
with us to educate them on thatjourney that comes from the
agent in the CRM.
So it's a communication that'sautomated, but from the agent to
start building and developingthat relationship.
But if you meet an, if we meet abuyer that's has certain, buyer
criteria, we're actually onlyletting them know about
products, sorry, properties thatare relevant as well.
(14:21):
So we're not actually massmailing right now a lot of our
database.
And from that, we've seen asignificant drop in unsubscribes
in our ecosystem.
So again, tying it back intothat customer piece, the
communication piece to thecustomer and the lead
generational tool for ouragents.
And then just on the side ofthat, is we have a product suite
(14:41):
that allows our agents to havean end to end experience and the
customer as well when they sella property.
So be that with pre listing,we're presenting for the
business, we're following up forthe business to actually listing
the property and doing thatelectronically as well to then
selling the property, takingoffers electronically, bidder
registrations electronically,streaming online.
(15:03):
finalise an auction, click abutton and generate the contract
of sale.
So we have an end to end productsuite that I believe we're the
only company, I believe in thenation at the moment, I've been
told that are actually using itthe most effectively where we've
heavily invested in that spaceand make sure it's customized to
a certain degree for our OC way.
You know, so I'm, I'm aware ofproperties Rob, that have had 40
(15:26):
offers placed all of them lineonline.
and my question to the agentwas, did anybody say anything or
have any difficulty doing that?
The answer was no.
And I'm like, brilliant, becausethat's what we want.
But by having this integration,we immediately create
efficiencies.
So we, I called an auction onthe last weekend, just gone.
(15:49):
We sold the property at auction,at the click of a button, we're
able to convert the bidderregistration into a contract for
sale.
And we'd finished a contract forsale within about three to four
minutes.
Rob (15:59):
Brilliant, isn't it
Luke (16:00):
We'd usually be sitting around the table, right?
And writing it all out..
So we have a kind of anotherpoint.
That is to say, that's one ofthe most powerful products that
we have that just enables ouragents to stay focused.
It's just in two or three two orthree dashboards, if you like.
And but more importantly, it'sjust kind of creating better
efficiencies across the wholeorganization.
Rob (16:20):
Yeah, that's brilliant.
And and something that's a bitof a theme ongoing.
It's the it's the use of tech tocreate efficiencies so that
agents can do what they do best.
That 30 percent that we weretalking right at the beginning
that you mentioned, as opposedto trying to do too much
customer stuff that might get inthe way as opposed to actually
benefiting the journey.
Luke (16:40):
that's right.
I'm sorry, Rob.
Just to jump in.
I think that the important bitthere as well is that the tech
products that we that we use areby no way to replace the
relationship piece, which is themost important piece in the
whole journey.
What they do do, though, is theyprovide more meaningful
information either to thecustomer from the agent in an
(17:00):
automated or semi automatedfashion or to make the agent
aware of information that maynot necessarily be known to them
that will help that client ontheir journey as well.
So it's not, none of theproducts that we've developed or
invested in has any intent totake away the most important
critical piece and that's therelationship.
(17:21):
It's more about the empowermentthat's more important.
Rob (17:25):
Yeah, that's a good perspective to look at.
Well, speaking of thatrelationship, my next question
is about ecosystem.
So you have your own first partyecosystem where you know who
they are.
They're in your CRM, you talk tothem direct.
And then you have those paid forecosystems or third party
ecosystem, like realestate.
com.
What, what sort of benefits areyou providing to the public to
(17:46):
get people to move from thatpaid for ecosystem into your own
ecosystem.
Because if I'm looking for ahouse, I'm not necessarily just
looking for an OC listed house.
I'm looking for a house in aspecific area that has specific
characteristics.
And so I will probably go tothat third party first.
How do you get people to come toyou first?
Luke (18:05):
Yeah, exactly.
And I think that, so that comesdown to a number of things.
It starts with a relationship.
The relationship is onlyvaluable if it provides value.
So we need to make sure that thevalue that we're providing to
the client is what they expectas well.
And I think we're also in aclimate where expectations have
significantly changed.
So we're constantly trying tothink ahead about that customer
(18:27):
journey.
And so the customer again is themost critical piece in the whole
jigsaw and to prevent you to goto other sources and third
parties or even potentiallyother agents, right, is I need
to make sure that I'm providingthe most meaningful relationship
with you and I'm providing withinformation that's relevant.
So again, that kind of, thatkind of just comes back into
(18:50):
that conversation.
We had a short while ago interms of, I need to make sure
that the journey you're on.
I'm providing you informationthat's relevant to that journey.
Otherwise, the relationship isnot gonna build.
You're not gonna have trust inme, but I've listened to you and
I care about that journey and Iwant to help you to get there.
So I think, first of all, it'sabout the the relevancy, I
(19:13):
guess, and the quality of thejourney that we take you on as
well.
The aspects of the third party,I think, look, no agency is
going to sell every property.
agency is going to lease everyproperty.
But what we can do by virtue ofour kind of the various APIs
that are available that throughour ecosystem and through our
(19:35):
communication channels, I couldlet you know about the prospects
that suit you.
You're still receiving acommunication from me, though
the product isn't or theproperty is not being sold by
me.
We've got to let them know aboutprospects or did you see 1234
Smith Street available?
It's the same principle, butit's just alerting our people to
(19:56):
that, to make sure that they're,that they're actually notifying
the individual of, of, of, ofthat prospect that could suit
them as well.
Everything again comes back downto the customer, And so to
prevent you from going to otherthird party ecosystems, what we
need to do is we need toactually embrace those other
ecosystems and work out how wecan integrate those ecosystems
(20:19):
into our own.
as well.
Again, bring it back into thatcustomer journey and that
relationship piece.
So that's what we do.
I mean, like we have a productthat will let us know that if
I'm working with you, Rob,you're considering selling your
home, but you've got to buyfirst.
If I can set up your criteriathat if a property becomes on,
comes on the market, suitingthat criteria and not with me, I
can get notified of that.
(20:40):
So I can at least reach out andsay, hey, Rob, I've actually
seen the property.
It's not in the market with me,but it's 250 meters away from
you.
Have you seen that?
Maybe, it's worth having a lookat over the weekend and yeah,
just that, just that connectiongoes that one step closer
strengthening the relationship.
Rob (20:59):
So something I want to pick up on something you just said
was about customer personas.
Can you just dive into that alittle bit and explain what that
means in your business?
Luke (21:07):
Yeah, sure.
So not everybody is the same,right?
So now everybody we're meetingon the weekend is the same.
Everybody's on differentjourneys.
Everyone's got different needsand everybody's got different
timings.
So, know, the simple concept ofupsizing or downsizing,
investing, or whether you'rebuying your first home, those
are kind of the four, simplekind of personas that you can
(21:30):
look at.
And there's sub personas belowthose as well.
Once we kind of know more aboutthe individual and their journey
and their timing can actuallytag customer a contact.
our CRM with that persona, wehave access to a whole array of
blogs and we have access to awhole array of communications
(21:50):
and media channels that canactually then provide or
communications about thatjourney.
So that includes things like therate rate changes and the impact
of rate changes as well on thatjourney as well.
It could be talking about stampduty and the effects of stamp
duty on a first time buyer.
transfer fees.
Are these the kind of things youconsidered?
So we start providinginformation and topics that are
(22:15):
consistent with that journey.
So if I have somebody that isflagged internally in our system
as a first time buyer, they'renot going to hear from us about
downsizing.
not ready, right?
But we also have then theintegration pieces whereby if we
meet an investor, somebody isactively looking to invest in
the Adelaide marketplace and wecan take them on as an investor.
(22:37):
We can actually then take themon another journey.
you just tell them how great weare at OC about looking after
that investment as well.
So we have a variety ofdifferent personas or journeys,
customer journeys is like asimple term, I guess, that we
have in our ecosystem thatenable us to communicate again
on a one to one basis or on amore meaningful basis.
Rob (22:59):
Wish list for future tech or data capabilities.
Is there something out there, apiece of data, something about
consumers or customers,something about properties,
something about listings thatyou don't currently have and
that you wish you had?
Luke (23:13):
Yeah.
I think this is probably whereAI is going to come in the
future, to be honest.
You know, we, we, we are seeingourself as potentially an agency
that will possibly lead this inthe way.
So I think AI can provide a rolein productivity, but more, more
importantly around thecommunication piece as well.
So first of all, from acommunication piece, and again,
(23:34):
communicating to our, to our.
consumers and our clients withrelevancy.
I think that's where I will playa part in the future it's more
there's a direct connection.
I could send out EDM to 1000people, but the content, the
message will be the same, butthe delivery of the content
(23:56):
could differ.
So I feel that's possibly where,you know, I see a gap in terms
of making sure that the way Icommunicate to certain
individuals can fluctuate basedon where that person is on their
journey.
So I think that's possiblysomething that will be something
to watch, watch closely.
And then a holistic point ofview internally, and we're
(24:19):
already doing this, we'realready developing this, and
this is more of a bespoke tool.
I feel that's going to be, Ifeel it's going to be different,
difficult to do this from anindustry perspective because not
everybody works the same, butwhat we're trying to do is
integrate into a very visualplatform and easily visual
platform.
(24:39):
What our agents just need to doon a daily basis or weekly
basis.
And that can include theworkflow of a lead as it comes
in with the integration, a clickof a button to generate the
opportunity in the CRM, butautomatically send out the pre
listing to a client.
The workflow then into thelisting space.
as well.
(24:59):
Whereas I feel in the futureclients will want to most
clients at the moment, if youwant to go and look at your
health insurance, you can justlog into Bupa online, not a
problem at all and get access toeverything.
So why can't you do that withwhen you're selling one of your
greatest assets?
So I feel like that kind of likedashboard for an agent and owner
is probably, probably going tobe, as I say, a bespoke
(25:21):
development for a lot ofagencies.
And that's where the biggeragencies are probably going to
get ahead quicker, because theyprobably have the
infrastructure, the resourcesand the people available.
But I feel like that dashboardintegration for an agent across
their own business and seeinghow they're performing for that,
you know, how they're performingwith their own pipeline, leads,
settlements, et cetera.
And then the workflow managementas well from a listing so that
(25:43):
the consumer can log in.
I, you know, I use I use AI alot in my day to day life right
now, you know, and my little AIbot, we have an internal AI bot,
by the way, like at OC, we'vedeveloped an internal AI bot
that sits in our ecosystem thatany of our people can just chat
to, and that can be anythingaround our policies, our
(26:04):
procedures, it could be aroundlegislation, and it just gives
quick answers straight back.
We all use like, you know, chatgpt as well, and even my bot
within chat has learnt my kindof English descendancy and even
occasionally will throw in theold Giza reference as well.
So, AI is very intuitive, you'vegot to train it in the right
(26:27):
way, you've got to train it inthe right way.
But, but it can be veryintuitive, but that's just an
example whereby if we know moreabout our customer, we know more
about where they're going, wecan actually start communicating
them to them in a more one toone specific way.
So I think in the future, the1000 letterbox drops or the 2000
EDMs that we send out, that willkind of kind of change massively
(26:50):
and we'll start communicating topeople on a more one to one
basis as opposed to just massbasis.
Rob (26:57):
I think I think the marketing space is ripe for
that.
And because of what you said,rather than going one to many,
the mass drop email one to oneis brilliant, particularly
because your CRM will be filledwith a lot of good granular
detail about a customer andtheir needs and their previous
experiences.
And so the AI has something towork with.
(27:17):
Which is, which is obviouslywhat it needs to create that one
on one.
So I think you're probably rightthere.
So a final question to you AI issomething that does scare a lot
of people as do new tech tools.
How do you get people who arereluctant to use tools to use
them?
Luke (27:32):
Great question.
I think a lot of people arefearful of change, right?
And so too much change tooquickly can be very, very scary.
we very much believe here at O.
C.
of a plug in and plug outprinciple.
And so with everything we do, wedon't position it in any way,
shape or form that you must doit this way.
(27:55):
You know, if we have an agentthat would prefer to work with
pen and paper, that's cool.
It's not a problem.
You know, so we have agents inour business on different
journeys.
They have different lifestyleaspirations.
And so through that, we justneed to make sure we facilitate
their needs, not the other wayaround.
So, yeah, we're whilst we try toobviously position the benefits
(28:20):
adopting any new product andwhether that's AI whether it's
any new system that we'relooking to roll in or roll out
the organization.
And incidentally, like we evenhave within our sales space, we
actually have a committee, whichis basically representatives of
agents nominated by other peoplein the organization to sit there
as a conduit between somebody onthe floor and the leadership
(28:43):
team so that we can actuallyspeak with them and say, look,
we're thinking about doing this,this, this, and this, what are
your thoughts?
And they can go off to sharethose views with the team so
that the whole team can become apart of the journey.
So change management isabsolutely critical.
So change can be fearful,sometimes the best way to bring
(29:04):
people on a journey is throughproof.
So we need to show the benefitsand have internal case studies
of how systems or AI has helpedan individual.
And then sometimes you get tothe point where the people who
are reluctant to change, FOMOkicks in, and that's when they
(29:24):
start becoming a little bit moreembracing.
But again, everything ateveryone's pace.
It's not like we're walking inday one saying, this is the way,
you must do this.
the contrary, like we'reactually saying, look, this is
where we could see the industrygoing.
This is where we see consumerneeds going.
We're going to provide you anecosystem and infrastructure to
do that.
(29:44):
If you want to get on the trainnow, great.
But if you want to come onlater, that's cool by us as
well.
Be respectful of everyindividual you have in your
organization.
Start small and use case studiesand social proof to help justify
and bring people on the journeylater.
Rob (30:00):
Luke.
We might leave it there.
Thank you so much for yourinsights today.
I think the team here atProperty Edge at Land Services
will be really interested todive into this podcast.
You've created a lot ofinteresting perspectives and
learnings.
To the people listening, thankyou for listening today.
If you do like what you hear,please do visit propertyedge.
app to learn more about thispodcast and also our property
(30:21):
research platform.
Luke, thank you so much forjoining us today.
Luke (30:25):
Pleasure.
Thanks for having me, Rob.
Rob (30:27):
Thank you.
And thanks everyone.
We'll see you in the nextepisode.
Bye bye.
sonic logo
sonic logo
Rob (00:04):
Today's episode or the property edge podcast.
Luke (00:07):
Fundamentally we call it an OC way.
There's like a 70 percentunderpinning of, tasks or things
that every agent needs to do,right?
They need to prospect, they needto lead generate, et cetera.
And then you've got theadditional 20, 30 percent
individual flair that we neverever want to change because
that's what makes everybody sounique.
Sometimes the best way to bringpeople on a journey is through
(00:28):
proof.
So we need to show the benefitsand have internal case studies
of how systems or AI has helpedan individual.
Importantly, from a salesperspective, we're seeing that
now correlate into actual sales,listings, and appraisals as
well.
Mhm.
Rob (00:48):
Hello and welcome to the Property Edge podcast where we
discover the tools, the tech,the AI and the perspectives that
are giving South Australian realestate leaders their edge.
And today I'm delighted to bejoined by a real local leader.
Luke Holden is the salesdirector of OC Ouwens Casserly
here in Adelaide.
Welcome Luke.
Luke (01:08):
Thanks Rob.
Great to be here.
Rob (01:10):
Thanks so much for joining.
I'm really excited to speak toyou today.
Can you just give us an overviewof who you are, your background,
and then a little bit about OCas well.
Luke (01:18):
Yeah, sure.
So just starting with OC we'rean independent agency located
here in Adelaide, SouthAustralia, with several of what
we call hubs and spokes.
So we've got approximately sixgeographical offices spread
across Adelaide.
We're selling approximately froma resi space between 1300 to
1400 properties per annum with aspecialist also division that
specializes in, in projects arent role, quite a substantial
(01:41):
rent role that we've built overtime.
As well, I guess, my kind ofrole here I'm the sales director
also a partner with Nathan andAlex as well in the business on
both PM and sales.
And my kind of primary function,I guess, is more revenue
orientated whereby I oversee thesales entity and all the agents,
but also take care of newbusiness within property
(02:02):
management as well.
So I have a role to play interms of the organic growth that
we develop within our, withinour rent role.
And I guess like from thefunctions point of view, I, I
still, I still dabble a littlebit with sales.
It's always good to keep yourkeep your toe in the water and
your, your finger on the pulseare still out there doing
auctions as well.
But I guess like my primary roleis, is, is really in the
development of our people.
(02:22):
I play a role in, in mentoringand coaching some of our staff
here internally developingtalent, talent internally, as
well as assisting.
We've what we call theonboarding and boarding process
of people as they come into theorganization as well.
So I really see agents here atOC, as our customers, our
clients.
And so my role in my, my, myteam is really to empower them.
(02:46):
that can be through not onlytheir development, but also the
tools and systems and processesand procedures that we put in
place to really underpin andhelp them to succeed and achieve
their own goals and aspirationsthrough properly as well.
So that's kind of my journey O.
C.
And where we're at.
Yeah.
Rob (03:02):
Yeah, and what I love to hear you mentioned just before
we started recording is thatyou've got a history in software
and so you get the tech spacereally, really well.
So, so how are decisions made inthe software space at OC?
What sort of process do you gothrough?
What's your tech team like?
Luke (03:19):
Yeah.
I think, yeah, I have a veryunique background, I guess you
could say.
I left school early and wentinto it in the UK.
Learning initially into thehardware, hardware and
infrastructure side of things,but that developed into
software, software engineering,and to roll the clock forward, I
ended up living in Australia,setting up a business in Sydney,
(03:41):
working with approximately 15developers across the country,
developing software for anadvertising, well, multiple
advertising companies, to behonest role was to go in there
to sell the product.
So that's where the salesbackground comes in play to
consult with them and then todevelop the product to suit the
user's needs as well.
So I have, an extensive kind ofbackground.
(04:02):
I'm still certified withMicrosoft and everything else.
but I guess that's kind ofreally assisted in my role now
and where I find myself in thatafter selling for a number of
years, we won't say for howlong, but selling real estate
for a number of years in bothAdelaide and interstate.
It's given me a really goodappreciation understanding of
(04:23):
functions of a sales agent.
And, and I think fundamentallywe call it an OC way.
There's like a 70 percentunderpinning of, I guess you
could say tasks or things thatevery agent needs to do, right?
They need to prospect, they needto lead generate, et cetera.
And then you've got theadditional 20, 30 percent
individual flair that we neverever want to change because
that's what makes everybody sounique.
(04:45):
So my role in terms of decisionmaking here within OSC is really
how we can provide greaterefficiency within the
organization, how we can reallytake a holistic approach
fundamentally around thecustomer all aspects of the
business as well.
We have an external dataconsultant.
That's purely just worksalongside myself and my team to
make sure that our CRM is set upcorrectly that we can run with
(05:09):
repetitive scripts to clean thatdata so that we can get the best
use of any, any systems we'reusing.
We also have a tech specialistin terms of systems within real
estate.
That's really at the forefrontof development and products, new
products worldwide as well.
So we get a bit of insight interms of what's happening
internationally as well asnationally.
And then we have like a businessconsultancy as well that sits
(05:29):
across our PM and sales.
So we really try to partnerourself with the right people
that can help us to make bestuse of all of our tech tech
stack.
across our organization.
And I think one of thefundamental roles that I
identified that we really neededwas an implementation
specialist.
So we actually have somebody inthe business that purely just
(05:49):
specializes in assisting ouragents in terms of the adoption
of systems, the adoption ofsoftware.
But more importantly,customising that journey for
that agent so that the softwaresuits them, not the other way
around.
So, with any product that webring in, we need to make sure
that, yeah, it facilitates thefundamentals, but it also allows
(06:11):
that 20 30 percent flair.
And so, yeah implementationspecialists will align
themselves with an agent.
We call it the boarding processhere at OC.
We've got the onboarding, whichis when somebody comes into the
business, they learn about allthe people and the organization
and everything else, but it'sthe boarding process that
usually lasts for 6 to 12 monthsin making sure that all the
infrastructure around thatindividual is set up in a way to
(06:33):
help them to succeed.
Rob (06:35):
I just find that really interesting the way you've put
it.
So.
In a lot of the conversations wehave with agencies and other
businesses, it's always aboutonboarding or boarding on team
members to understand how to usethe tech and use it the company
way.
And you've gone the other waysaying we want the tech to, to
(06:55):
facilitate the way the userwants to use it.
That's a really different way oflooking at it.
And I'm sure you're seeingbetter success with that too.
Luke (07:04):
Absolutely.
I mean, since the, since thatrole was created, we've seen a
greater uptake in all systems.
So the change management controlthat we have here is
significantly changed.
I think the day of when a systembecomes available or a product
available and you just switch iton and it's unreasonable in my
opinion to expect an agent tojust sit there and configure
(07:26):
system to work for them.
it's not just about flick aswitch.
Let's let's put this plug ininto our CRM and expect an
agent.
to facilitate that.
Because the natural flare of anagent, they're more people based
people, right?
We work in a relationship basedindustry.
And so, you know, tech people attimes don't share that same
profile.
(07:46):
what we need to do is we need toensure that our tech stack
reflects the agent and not theother way around.
And that's where you get betterbuy in, better integration, and
I say we get betterimplementation within the
organization.
As opposed to leaving to theindividuals to configure for
themselves.
lets really assist them anddrive that for them.
It's not about taking control.
It's just making sure that it'sset up in a way that suits and
(08:08):
reflects the individual.
Yeah,
Rob (08:10):
There's one issue that we all have so many subscriptions
start adding up and your monthlyor annual your fees start to
become a little bit eyewatering.
So how do you play that area?
Luke (08:19):
definitely the cost of doing business is getting more
expensive, right?
And that includes technology aswell.
We went through a period ofconsolidation within our tech
stack over the last 2 or 3years.
We've gone from probably 8 or 9products and then really pare
that down so that we're probablyjust using 3 or 4, but we're
using a much better and we'restarting to see the output.
So in terms of decision makingprocess, yes, we definitely look
(08:43):
into the usage of the individualproducts because it will do two
things.
One, have we done our job wellin terms of the implementation
of that product and what do weneed to reflect?
So we're constantly trying toreview and reflect on what we
can do better.
But secondly, then, look, do weactually need to hold some more
workshops?
Are the skill sets of theseindividuals not at the level
that we thought?
Do we need to actually pair itback?
(09:03):
Can we actually accelerate thepace?
We have a library within ourinfrastructure, um, of various
training courses which relate tothe various products that we do
use.
And so what we do is we ensurethat people are progressing
through those courses So at thevery end they're extremely
competent and know exactly whatthey're doing.
And what we're actually seeinginternally is a significant
(09:24):
increase in the adoption of theproducts that we've implemented.
But more importantly, from asales perspective, we're seeing
that now correlate into actualsales, listings, and appraisals
as well.
So, the greatest way to bring asalesperson on a journey, Rob?
Is to justify what you'rebringing in for them.
(09:45):
And we're now starting to showthat by having evidence of, you
know, a significant increase inthe inbound appraisal requests
that we're generating throughour tech suite.
and that includes listings andsales that we're being paid for
as well.
Rob (09:58):
So in other words, show me the money and and I'll follow
what you do.
Luke (10:01):
Think that's the psych, that's the, that's the mentality
of most salespeople, the bestway, as I say, to bring them on
the journey is justify howthat's going to have a positive
influence on their on theirwallet.
Rob (10:11):
That's that's OC creating these tools, is it?
Luke (10:13):
We call it the OC way.
So it's a, it's a library oftutorials and training workshops
that we've developed internally,which is teaching the agents how
to use or adopt the product intheir own way.
so yeah, it's, it's, it's asuite of courses that we put
together ourselves internally.
Rob (10:31):
I noticed that you you're you'll be opening a Goolwa
office in in about a month'stime.
That's about right.
So my guess would be that thenew team down there, they'd all
be given access to all thisstuff now and be jumping in,
going through those videos,trying to understand the OC way
so that when when, when itopens, they're, they're up and
running, but they probablyalready are up and running,
(10:52):
aren't they?
Luke (10:54):
They're definitely up and running, definitely up and
running and already hitting thegoals already.
So, yeah.
So.
It depends on the individual,Rob, to be completely honest
with you, we find that someindividuals respond better from
face to face and some, some arecomfortable working through, you
know, loom videos or, you know,just reading through tutorials.
(11:14):
but that's a great example thatyou've just touched upon is that
my implementation specialist isjust down there constantly
helping the team, ensuring we'rebringing them up to speed.
So they've obviously beenintroduced into O.
C.
and that comes through people inculture, the marketing
department, etcetera, and thenthey then pass through into our
channel, which is implement theimplementation specialists in
(11:35):
the sales space, which is makingsure that we're now getting them
up to speed and making sure theproducts suit them well in terms
of how they pitch for business,how they follow up the business,
how they are prospecting etc.
So our implementation specialistis down there on a regular basis
to bring them up to speed veryvery quickly and as I say, yeah,
we're certainly seeing theeffects of that because we're
(11:57):
already we're hitting the groundpretty hard there.
Rob (11:59):
Well, perhaps you might give us a bit of a walk through
your tech stack.
If you're happy to name names,name names or don't, not fussed,
but also how you connect themall together.
Luke (12:09):
Yeah, sure.
The connection piece is thesometimes the most challenging
to be honest with you andfundamentally we always start
with two CRMs and that's yoursales CRM and that's your
property management CRM as well.
And there's a variety ofproducts that you've got out
there for sales.
We use Agent Box to be honestwith you.
works really, really well.
(12:30):
ProbablyMe in a propertymanagement space.
but we, we try to ensure thatwe've got some sort of
connection between the two.
So that, for example, Rob, ifyou were one of our landlords
and you're managing fiveproperties under OC and I'll
meet you in an open inspection,I really want to know about that
because you're, you're a really,really important client to OC.
So we, we, we're working very,very hard on that kind of
(12:53):
connection between all aspectsof the organization.
And again, fundamentally, anydecision that we make, is all
around empowering our agents andeverybody else in the
organisation.
But for me, it comes all the wayup into that customer
experience.
So we're really looking at howtech and our tech stack
compliment and improving ourcustomer experience forward.
(13:17):
Then you've got the peripheralkind of services that kind of
have a two way, if you like,integration to these various
CRMs and just to keep it reallysimple.
And we have in our sales space,we have a lead generational tool
and communication a tool thatsits across the CRM, uses CRM
(13:38):
and it presents it to an agentor presents it to a client.
We're one of very few agenciesto the best of my knowledge that
now communicates to the client,be that a buyer or a seller
based on information relevant totheir search or their journey.
So we actually have people inour system that are tagged as
upsizers, investors, first homebuyers that go through a journey
(13:59):
with us to educate them on thatjourney that comes from the
agent in the CRM.
So it's a communication that'sautomated, but from the agent to
start building and developingthat relationship.
But if you meet an, if we meet abuyer that's has certain, buyer
criteria, we're actually onlyletting them know about
products, sorry, properties thatare relevant as well.
(14:21):
So we're not actually massmailing right now a lot of our
database.
And from that, we've seen asignificant drop in unsubscribes
in our ecosystem.
So again, tying it back intothat customer piece, the
communication piece to thecustomer and the lead
generational tool for ouragents.
And then just on the side ofthat, is we have a product suite
(14:41):
that allows our agents to havean end to end experience and the
customer as well when they sella property.
So be that with pre listing,we're presenting for the
business, we're following up forthe business to actually listing
the property and doing thatelectronically as well to then
selling the property, takingoffers electronically, bidder
registrations electronically,streaming online.
(15:03):
finalise an auction, click abutton and generate the contract
of sale.
So we have an end to end productsuite that I believe we're the
only company, I believe in thenation at the moment, I've been
told that are actually using itthe most effectively where we've
heavily invested in that spaceand make sure it's customized to
a certain degree for our OC way.
You know, so I'm, I'm aware ofproperties Rob, that have had 40
(15:26):
offers placed all of them lineonline.
and my question to the agentwas, did anybody say anything or
have any difficulty doing that?
The answer was no.
And I'm like, brilliant, becausethat's what we want.
But by having this integration,we immediately create
efficiencies.
So we, I called an auction onthe last weekend, just gone.
(15:49):
We sold the property at auction,at the click of a button, we're
able to convert the bidderregistration into a contract for
sale.
And we'd finished a contract forsale within about three to four
minutes.
Rob (15:59):
Brilliant, isn't it
Luke (16:00):
We'd usually be sitting around the table, right?
And writing it all out..
So we have a kind of anotherpoint.
That is to say, that's one ofthe most powerful products that
we have that just enables ouragents to stay focused.
It's just in two or three two orthree dashboards, if you like.
And but more importantly, it'sjust kind of creating better
efficiencies across the wholeorganization.
Rob (16:20):
Yeah, that's brilliant.
And and something that's a bitof a theme ongoing.
It's the it's the use of tech tocreate efficiencies so that
agents can do what they do best.
That 30 percent that we weretalking right at the beginning
that you mentioned, as opposedto trying to do too much
customer stuff that might get inthe way as opposed to actually
benefiting the journey.
Luke (16:40):
that's right.
I'm sorry, Rob.
Just to jump in.
I think that the important bitthere as well is that the tech
products that we that we use areby no way to replace the
relationship piece, which is themost important piece in the
whole journey.
What they do do, though, is theyprovide more meaningful
information either to thecustomer from the agent in an
(17:00):
automated or semi automatedfashion or to make the agent
aware of information that maynot necessarily be known to them
that will help that client ontheir journey as well.
So it's not, none of theproducts that we've developed or
invested in has any intent totake away the most important
critical piece and that's therelationship.
(17:21):
It's more about the empowermentthat's more important.
Rob (17:25):
Yeah, that's a good perspective to look at.
Well, speaking of thatrelationship, my next question
is about ecosystem.
So you have your own first partyecosystem where you know who
they are.
They're in your CRM, you talk tothem direct.
And then you have those paid forecosystems or third party
ecosystem, like realestate.
com.
What, what sort of benefits areyou providing to the public to
(17:46):
get people to move from thatpaid for ecosystem into your own
ecosystem.
Because if I'm looking for ahouse, I'm not necessarily just
looking for an OC listed house.
I'm looking for a house in aspecific area that has specific
characteristics.
And so I will probably go tothat third party first.
How do you get people to come toyou first?
Luke (18:05):
Yeah, exactly.
And I think that, so that comesdown to a number of things.
It starts with a relationship.
The relationship is onlyvaluable if it provides value.
So we need to make sure that thevalue that we're providing to
the client is what they expectas well.
And I think we're also in aclimate where expectations have
significantly changed.
So we're constantly trying tothink ahead about that customer
(18:27):
journey.
And so the customer again is themost critical piece in the whole
jigsaw and to prevent you to goto other sources and third
parties or even potentiallyother agents, right, is I need
to make sure that I'm providingthe most meaningful relationship
with you and I'm providing withinformation that's relevant.
So again, that kind of, thatkind of just comes back into
(18:50):
that conversation.
We had a short while ago interms of, I need to make sure
that the journey you're on.
I'm providing you informationthat's relevant to that journey.
Otherwise, the relationship isnot gonna build.
You're not gonna have trust inme, but I've listened to you and
I care about that journey and Iwant to help you to get there.
So I think, first of all, it'sabout the the relevancy, I
(19:13):
guess, and the quality of thejourney that we take you on as
well.
The aspects of the third party,I think, look, no agency is
going to sell every property.
agency is going to lease everyproperty.
But what we can do by virtue ofour kind of the various APIs
that are available that throughour ecosystem and through our
(19:35):
communication channels, I couldlet you know about the prospects
that suit you.
You're still receiving acommunication from me, though
the product isn't or theproperty is not being sold by
me.
We've got to let them know aboutprospects or did you see 1234
Smith Street available?
It's the same principle, butit's just alerting our people to
(19:56):
that, to make sure that they're,that they're actually notifying
the individual of, of, of, ofthat prospect that could suit
them as well.
Everything again comes back downto the customer, And so to
prevent you from going to otherthird party ecosystems, what we
need to do is we need toactually embrace those other
ecosystems and work out how wecan integrate those ecosystems
(20:19):
into our own.
as well.
Again, bring it back into thatcustomer journey and that
relationship piece.
So that's what we do.
I mean, like we have a productthat will let us know that if
I'm working with you, Rob,you're considering selling your
home, but you've got to buyfirst.
If I can set up your criteriathat if a property becomes on,
comes on the market, suitingthat criteria and not with me, I
can get notified of that.
(20:40):
So I can at least reach out andsay, hey, Rob, I've actually
seen the property.
It's not in the market with me,but it's 250 meters away from
you.
Have you seen that?
Maybe, it's worth having a lookat over the weekend and yeah,
just that, just that connectiongoes that one step closer
strengthening the relationship.
Rob (20:59):
So something I want to pick up on something you just said
was about customer personas.
Can you just dive into that alittle bit and explain what that
means in your business?
Luke (21:07):
Yeah, sure.
So not everybody is the same,right?
So now everybody we're meetingon the weekend is the same.
Everybody's on differentjourneys.
Everyone's got different needsand everybody's got different
timings.
So, know, the simple concept ofupsizing or downsizing,
investing, or whether you'rebuying your first home, those
are kind of the four, simplekind of personas that you can
(21:30):
look at.
And there's sub personas belowthose as well.
Once we kind of know more aboutthe individual and their journey
and their timing can actuallytag customer a contact.
our CRM with that persona, wehave access to a whole array of
blogs and we have access to awhole array of communications
(21:50):
and media channels that canactually then provide or
communications about thatjourney.
So that includes things like therate rate changes and the impact
of rate changes as well on thatjourney as well.
It could be talking about stampduty and the effects of stamp
duty on a first time buyer.
transfer fees.
Are these the kind of things youconsidered?
So we start providinginformation and topics that are
(22:15):
consistent with that journey.
So if I have somebody that isflagged internally in our system
as a first time buyer, they'renot going to hear from us about
downsizing.
not ready, right?
But we also have then theintegration pieces whereby if we
meet an investor, somebody isactively looking to invest in
the Adelaide marketplace and wecan take them on as an investor.
(22:37):
We can actually then take themon another journey.
you just tell them how great weare at OC about looking after
that investment as well.
So we have a variety ofdifferent personas or journeys,
customer journeys is like asimple term, I guess, that we
have in our ecosystem thatenable us to communicate again
on a one to one basis or on amore meaningful basis.
Rob (22:59):
Wish list for future tech or data capabilities.
Is there something out there, apiece of data, something about
consumers or customers,something about properties,
something about listings thatyou don't currently have and
that you wish you had?
Luke (23:13):
Yeah.
I think this is probably whereAI is going to come in the
future, to be honest.
You know, we, we, we are seeingourself as potentially an agency
that will possibly lead this inthe way.
So I think AI can provide a rolein productivity, but more, more
importantly around thecommunication piece as well.
So first of all, from acommunication piece, and again,
(23:34):
communicating to our, to our.
consumers and our clients withrelevancy.
I think that's where I will playa part in the future it's more
there's a direct connection.
I could send out EDM to 1000people, but the content, the
message will be the same, butthe delivery of the content
(23:56):
could differ.
So I feel that's possibly where,you know, I see a gap in terms
of making sure that the way Icommunicate to certain
individuals can fluctuate basedon where that person is on their
journey.
So I think that's possiblysomething that will be something
to watch, watch closely.
And then a holistic point ofview internally, and we're
(24:19):
already doing this, we'realready developing this, and
this is more of a bespoke tool.
I feel that's going to be, Ifeel it's going to be different,
difficult to do this from anindustry perspective because not
everybody works the same, butwhat we're trying to do is
integrate into a very visualplatform and easily visual
platform.
(24:39):
What our agents just need to doon a daily basis or weekly
basis.
And that can include theworkflow of a lead as it comes
in with the integration, a clickof a button to generate the
opportunity in the CRM, butautomatically send out the pre
listing to a client.
The workflow then into thelisting space.
as well.
(24:59):
Whereas I feel in the futureclients will want to most
clients at the moment, if youwant to go and look at your
health insurance, you can justlog into Bupa online, not a
problem at all and get access toeverything.
So why can't you do that withwhen you're selling one of your
greatest assets?
So I feel like that kind of likedashboard for an agent and owner
is probably, probably going tobe, as I say, a bespoke
(25:21):
development for a lot ofagencies.
And that's where the biggeragencies are probably going to
get ahead quicker, because theyprobably have the
infrastructure, the resourcesand the people available.
But I feel like that dashboardintegration for an agent across
their own business and seeinghow they're performing for that,
you know, how they're performingwith their own pipeline, leads,
settlements, et cetera.
And then the workflow managementas well from a listing so that
(25:43):
the consumer can log in.
I, you know, I use I use AI alot in my day to day life right
now, you know, and my little AIbot, we have an internal AI bot,
by the way, like at OC, we'vedeveloped an internal AI bot
that sits in our ecosystem thatany of our people can just chat
to, and that can be anythingaround our policies, our
(26:04):
procedures, it could be aroundlegislation, and it just gives
quick answers straight back.
We all use like, you know, chatgpt as well, and even my bot
within chat has learnt my kindof English descendancy and even
occasionally will throw in theold Giza reference as well.
So, AI is very intuitive, you'vegot to train it in the right
(26:27):
way, you've got to train it inthe right way.
But, but it can be veryintuitive, but that's just an
example whereby if we know moreabout our customer, we know more
about where they're going, wecan actually start communicating
them to them in a more one toone specific way.
So I think in the future, the1000 letterbox drops or the 2000
EDMs that we send out, that willkind of kind of change massively
(26:50):
and we'll start communicating topeople on a more one to one
basis as opposed to just massbasis.
Rob (26:57):
I think I think the marketing space is ripe for
that.
And because of what you said,rather than going one to many,
the mass drop email one to oneis brilliant, particularly
because your CRM will be filledwith a lot of good granular
detail about a customer andtheir needs and their previous
experiences.
And so the AI has something towork with.
(27:17):
Which is, which is obviouslywhat it needs to create that one
on one.
So I think you're probably rightthere.
So a final question to you AI issomething that does scare a lot
of people as do new tech tools.
How do you get people who arereluctant to use tools to use
them?
Luke (27:32):
Great question.
I think a lot of people arefearful of change, right?
And so too much change tooquickly can be very, very scary.
we very much believe here at O.
C.
of a plug in and plug outprinciple.
And so with everything we do, wedon't position it in any way,
shape or form that you must doit this way.
(27:55):
You know, if we have an agentthat would prefer to work with
pen and paper, that's cool.
It's not a problem.
You know, so we have agents inour business on different
journeys.
They have different lifestyleaspirations.
And so through that, we justneed to make sure we facilitate
their needs, not the other wayaround.
So, yeah, we're whilst we try toobviously position the benefits
(28:20):
adopting any new product andwhether that's AI whether it's
any new system that we'relooking to roll in or roll out
the organization.
And incidentally, like we evenhave within our sales space, we
actually have a committee, whichis basically representatives of
agents nominated by other peoplein the organization to sit there
as a conduit between somebody onthe floor and the leadership
(28:43):
team so that we can actuallyspeak with them and say, look,
we're thinking about doing this,this, this, and this, what are
your thoughts?
And they can go off to sharethose views with the team so
that the whole team can become apart of the journey.
So change management isabsolutely critical.
So change can be fearful,sometimes the best way to bring
(29:04):
people on a journey is throughproof.
So we need to show the benefitsand have internal case studies
of how systems or AI has helpedan individual.
And then sometimes you get tothe point where the people who
are reluctant to change, FOMOkicks in, and that's when they
(29:24):
start becoming a little bit moreembracing.
But again, everything ateveryone's pace.
It's not like we're walking inday one saying, this is the way,
you must do this.
the contrary, like we'reactually saying, look, this is
where we could see the industrygoing.
This is where we see consumerneeds going.
We're going to provide you anecosystem and infrastructure to
do that.
(29:44):
If you want to get on the trainnow, great.
But if you want to come onlater, that's cool by us as
well.
Be respectful of everyindividual you have in your
organization.
Start small and use case studiesand social proof to help justify
and bring people on the journeylater.
Rob (30:00):
Luke.
We might leave it there.
Thank you so much for yourinsights today.
I think the team here atProperty Edge at Land Services
will be really interested todive into this podcast.
You've created a lot ofinteresting perspectives and
learnings.
To the people listening, thankyou for listening today.
If you do like what you hear,please do visit propertyedge.
app to learn more about thispodcast and also our property
(30:21):
research platform.
Luke, thank you so much forjoining us today.
Luke (30:25):
Pleasure.
Thanks for having me, Rob.
Rob (30:27):
Thank you.
And thanks everyone.
We'll see you in the nextepisode.
Bye bye.
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