In this episode of the Property Edge Podcast, host Rob Turnbull of Land Services SA is joined by Lara Paholski from Livesign.
They discuss the evolution of electronic signing and digital identification in real estate transactions, the challenges of maintaining compliance, and the impact of upcoming anti-money laundering legislation. Lara shares her journey from co-founding a digital identity company to leading Livesign and highlights how agencies can proactively adopt new technologies to streamline operations and ensure compliance, ultimately enhancing client trust and experience.
00:00 Introduction and Welcome
01:04 Meet Lara Paholski: From Kadina to Livesign
02:03 The Role of Technology in Real Estate
03:02 The Evolution of Signatures and Digital Identity
03:48 Compliance and Anti-Money Laundering Legislation
04:16 Digital Witnessing Solutions
07:09 Seamless Integration and Compliance
07:39 Adopting New Technologies in Real Estate
09:49 Conclusion and Farewell
Visit www.propertyedge.app/the-property-edge-podcast to see other episodes, see episode summaries and read transcripts.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
sonic logo
Rob (00:04):
Today's episode or the property edge podcast.
squadcaster-agef_1_05-15-2 (00:07):
What got lost and many people haven't
thought about along the way isthe fact that that whole
witnessing component hasactually gone.
So if we're thinking about in areal estate transaction, forms
or contracts are getting sentout to be signed and the agent
can't hand on heart, looksomeone in the eye and say, yes,
I know that was Rob that signedthat form.
(00:28):
Mhm.
Rob (00:31):
Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Property
Edge Podcast, where we talk allthings tech data platforms and
programs in the real estateindustry.
My name is Rob Turnbull fromLand Services SA, and we've got
something a little bit differentfor you today.
We are talking about all thescary things that happen behind
the scenes during, before andafter a transaction, and I'm
(00:54):
delighted to be joined by LaraPaholski from Livesign.
Welcome, Lara.
Lara (00:59):
Thank you, Rob.
Thank you so much for having metoday.
Rob (01:01):
Well, it's brilliant to have you here.
And I just wanna start bysaying, how did you get from
growing up in Kadina all the wayto, to running a national
electronic signing platform?
Lara (01:13):
Oh, you could, you could almost say Rob, I ended up here
in some ways accidentally.
It was back in 2014 I think itwas, that we co-founded what was
a digital identity company.
It was actually for the familybusiness, for a digital ID
solution with new verificationof identity rules and then we
saw an opportunity to helpothers in the industry.
(01:34):
We basically spent the next fewyears scaling that and growing
it About three or four years, Ithink, into our journey, the
company actually got acquired bya major legal tech company I
went and worked in that companyfor some time.
And then that's how I'vebasically ended up working in,
in digital identity and thiswhole, what was a brand new
(01:54):
industry for me.
And now I'm fortunate enough tolead the team and the company at
Livesign.
Rob (02:02):
Thank you for that overview there.
So, what's your role withregards to technology?
Are you the one that, thatpioneers new things or are you
the one that understands themarket and and gets your tech
people to build them?
I.
Lara (02:13):
It's a, it's a real blend I'd call it Rob, multifaceted.
But while the role is strategic,I'm actually also quite hands on
with much of the tactical on thegroundwork.
I love doing that, but I thinkit's also really important to
get out from behind the desk andbe speaking directly to our
clients.
To our industry partners, which,for me is a key way in which,
and how we well, we need to bedoing that to, to grow our
(02:35):
client base and really establishand work on those strategic
industry relationships.
From that work being done iswe're now Pexa's Digital ID
partner, which has beenfantastic for us.
We're working with and have alot of integrations into several
property and legal techplatforms, including REISA
Master Forms and others which isreally beneficial and hopefully
(02:56):
especially for in customer bybringing some of those
streamlined integrations intothe market.
Rob (03:02):
Now, if we look at signing, just reflecting on this this
morning.
Back in the old days peoplecouldn't sign things hundreds
upon years ago.
They leave a mark, makers' Markand you can see that chiseled
onto cathedrals around Europe.
And then when people learn toread and write, finally, they
could write a name and thatwould become their signature as
such.
Lara (03:18):
Mm-hmm.
Rob (03:18):
that could easily be forged.
So then you'd get witnessesinvolved and witnesses would
also sign that they saw someoneelse sign things.
And that's how we've basicallyrolled for hundreds of years.
Until we're getting to a pointnow where we can move to
digital.
But of course if I receive anemail telling me to sign this,
no one knows it's actually meclicking on that link and
signing it.
So verification of ID anddigital signature are super
(03:41):
important to go hand in hand,aren't they?
My question to you is, for RealEstate in particular.
Anti-money launderinglegislation, which gets enacted
next July will
Lara (03:52):
Correct.
Rob (03:53):
on compliance
Lara (03:55):
Mm-hmm.
Rob (03:56):
for real estate agents to, do more due diligence, make sure
that they're talking to thepeople who they think they're
talking to, and they get theright signatures.
How do you see agencies, beproactive, stay ahead of the
game, and not create an extraburden on themselves when this
legislation does kick in.
Lara (04:14):
All right.
Really good question.
If we think about the old world,with witnessing, you are always
in front of someone, you couldactually see who was signing
those documents, especially whenit came to high value
transactions.
And it's all great thateveryone's jumped online.
They've adopted signingtechnologies and other tech.
However, what got lost and manypeople haven't thought about
(04:35):
along the way is the fact thatthat whole witnessing component
has actually gone.
So if we're thinking about in areal estate transaction usually
involving hundreds of thousandsof dollars, if not millions.
Forms or contracts are gettingsent out to be signed and the
agent can't hand on heart, looksomeone in the eye and say, yes,
(04:56):
I know that was Rob that signedthat form.
So that's where we saw a realrisk in the industry in which we
operate in.
So we decided to close that gapby offering what we almost call
a digital witnessing solutionAnd there's proof that that was
actually Rob, not, you know,someone else is logging in and
signing things that you mightnot be aware of.
(05:17):
So.
What we've developed is we cansend out a form, any forms, get
those signed with our e-signtechnology, and do the
verification of identity checkat the same time.
And then that all comes back asa package.
And that's to negate a lot ofthat risk of not knowing in the
digital world who your signeris.
We've got tranche two comingwith AML, as you already
(05:37):
mentioned, Rob, coming into playnext year is to lean into the
changes.
You know, they've really got aunique opportunity here to to
lead by adopting tools andtechnologies and there's so many
out there, but that can help youlean into that.
So you yourself are managingrisk appropriately.
You are giving that assurity toyour clients that you are also.
(06:01):
You know, protecting their dataand doing all the things that
you can to mitigate anythinggoing wrong during that
transaction.
Because at the end of the day,it's a very stressful time for
the clients who are selling andbuying properties, and they just
want that to be done seamlessly.
Rob (06:15):
Yeah, that's a really good point because it does enable the
currency of trust, which was ahandshake and a look in the eye
to be transferred into digitalspace by saying, Hey our
compliance is a competitiveadvantage, as
Lara (06:28):
Yes.
Rob (06:29):
to, it's a, it's a pain in the bum.
Which, which, let's be honest,no one, apart from compliance
companies likes compliance,
Lara (06:35):
Oh look, I, I, I'm the first to sit here and say, who
loves doing Id checks?
No one.
They sit there and they thinkit's a pain in the ass.
And, and, and I probably thinkthe same around when the, the
AML Tranche Two rules come intoplay.
But again, what I would say is,there's people out there like us
and others who have these toolsto help you get there quickly
(06:56):
and easily and also reallyimportantly provide or, or
conduct those checks where itdoesn't cause friction for the
client.
You want it to be reallyseamless also for them.
So yeah, embrace it.
Rob (07:08):
Embrace it.
I agree.
And one thing that's, happeningand, with Livesign is built into
REISA Master Forms,
Lara (07:13):
Mm-hmm.
Rob (07:14):
which is brilliant, you know, is this embedded
compliance.
So the compliance a lot of thetime can be invisible.
An agent can go through theirnormal workflow.
And just by doing so, becausethe right platforms have been
put into place by the agency,the compliance is embedded and
they can tell their customerthat it's all compliant and
it's, it's it's top tier, but itdoesn't actually mean that they
(07:35):
have to do too much different towhat they did before.
But help me understand this.
So, for agencies that are doingnew things and, what with
Tranche Two, coming on nextyear, there will be a lot of
work to be done, how do youapproach an agency that, that
has a broad spectrum of digitalliteracy amongst their staff?
How do you embed new platformsinto existing businesses?
Lara (07:55):
I often refer to the, you know, there's fatigue in the
industry.
For real estate agents, thereare so many options out there in
terms of all the tech tools thatare available and it can almost
be quite overwhelming trying tonavigate your way through
looking at them all.
Doing assessments and for many,they may not know what they
don't know.
And you know, nor do we, we arelearning too.
(08:18):
We're all in this togetherbecause there's so many emerging
new techs that we're constantlyhaving to learn about and keep
pace with.
I, I do think though it's amatter for each business to work
out what do we need to complywith?
Really take the time tounderstand what legislative
changes may be coming intoplace, and then understand what
(08:39):
your role in that needs to be toreach compliance.
And then assess what options areout there in market and things
will appeal to differentbusinesses from, you know,
different tech tools that areout there.
But, try to think about what doI, I really need, what's gonna
work for my business?
What's easy for them tounderstand, to use, because a
(09:01):
lot of the success of these techtools being successful within a
business is the internaladoption.
So, you know, lean into yourstaff early adopters call or
that embrace new tech and getthem to be your internal
advocates and help your staffinternally.
And that rubs off on everyonethat can help do the training
and, and get them to understandthe benefits by working
(09:24):
together.
And then obviously thosebenefits then also impact your
customers.
And all agencies need to bedoing that these days to remain
competitive, and be seen, to beinnovative because I think we
have a much more sophisticatedlevel of customers and clients
out there now who themselves arelooking into technology and
wanting agencies and their localreal estate agents to be
(09:46):
embracing it too.
Rob (09:47):
Yeah, well said.
Well said.
And and there you have it folks.
Here.
Here we have Livesign.
Built up here in Australia,taking on the big guns around
the world, the likes ofDocuSign, trusted as PEXA's
partner, trusted by REISA to bethe partner for REISA Master
Forms as the AML requirementsstart really coming out.
(10:09):
We'll see, I'm sure Livesign, bebe front and center.
Thank you for your time today,Lara.
Really appreciate yourperspectives on this important
subject.
Lara (10:18):
Thank you so much, Rob, for having me and viewers as
well.
Rob (10:22):
And everyone, head over to the Property Edge website to see
our other episodes and if youfeel like it, sign up for a
newsletter as well.
Anyway, until the next time,bye-bye.
Sonic logo
sonic logo
Rob (00:04):
Today's episode or the property edge podcast.
squadcaster-agef_1_05-15-2 (00:07):
What got lost and many people haven't
thought about along the way isthe fact that that whole
witnessing component hasactually gone.
So if we're thinking about in areal estate transaction, forms
or contracts are getting sentout to be signed and the agent
can't hand on heart, looksomeone in the eye and say, yes,
I know that was Rob that signedthat form.
(00:28):
Mhm.
Rob (00:31):
Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Property
Edge Podcast, where we talk allthings tech data platforms and
programs in the real estateindustry.
My name is Rob Turnbull fromLand Services SA, and we've got
something a little bit differentfor you today.
We are talking about all thescary things that happen behind
the scenes during, before andafter a transaction, and I'm
(00:54):
delighted to be joined by LaraPaholski from Livesign.
Welcome, Lara.
Lara (00:59):
Thank you, Rob.
Thank you so much for having metoday.
Rob (01:01):
Well, it's brilliant to have you here.
And I just wanna start bysaying, how did you get from
growing up in Kadina all the wayto, to running a national
electronic signing platform?
Lara (01:13):
Oh, you could, you could almost say Rob, I ended up here
in some ways accidentally.
It was back in 2014 I think itwas, that we co-founded what was
a digital identity company.
It was actually for the familybusiness, for a digital ID
solution with new verificationof identity rules and then we
saw an opportunity to helpothers in the industry.
(01:34):
We basically spent the next fewyears scaling that and growing
it About three or four years, Ithink, into our journey, the
company actually got acquired bya major legal tech company I
went and worked in that companyfor some time.
And then that's how I'vebasically ended up working in,
in digital identity and thiswhole, what was a brand new
(01:54):
industry for me.
And now I'm fortunate enough tolead the team and the company at
Livesign.
Rob (02:02):
Thank you for that overview there.
So, what's your role withregards to technology?
Are you the one that, thatpioneers new things or are you
the one that understands themarket and and gets your tech
people to build them?
I.
Lara (02:13):
It's a, it's a real blend I'd call it Rob, multifaceted.
But while the role is strategic,I'm actually also quite hands on
with much of the tactical on thegroundwork.
I love doing that, but I thinkit's also really important to
get out from behind the desk andbe speaking directly to our
clients.
To our industry partners, which,for me is a key way in which,
and how we well, we need to bedoing that to, to grow our
(02:35):
client base and really establishand work on those strategic
industry relationships.
From that work being done iswe're now Pexa's Digital ID
partner, which has beenfantastic for us.
We're working with and have alot of integrations into several
property and legal techplatforms, including REISA
Master Forms and others which isreally beneficial and hopefully
(02:56):
especially for in customer bybringing some of those
streamlined integrations intothe market.
Rob (03:02):
Now, if we look at signing, just reflecting on this this
morning.
Back in the old days peoplecouldn't sign things hundreds
upon years ago.
They leave a mark, makers' Markand you can see that chiseled
onto cathedrals around Europe.
And then when people learn toread and write, finally, they
could write a name and thatwould become their signature as
such.
Lara (03:18):
Mm-hmm.
Rob (03:18):
that could easily be forged.
So then you'd get witnessesinvolved and witnesses would
also sign that they saw someoneelse sign things.
And that's how we've basicallyrolled for hundreds of years.
Until we're getting to a pointnow where we can move to
digital.
But of course if I receive anemail telling me to sign this,
no one knows it's actually meclicking on that link and
signing it.
So verification of ID anddigital signature are super
(03:41):
important to go hand in hand,aren't they?
My question to you is, for RealEstate in particular.
Anti-money launderinglegislation, which gets enacted
next July will
Lara (03:52):
Correct.
Rob (03:53):
on compliance
Lara (03:55):
Mm-hmm.
Rob (03:56):
for real estate agents to, do more due diligence, make sure
that they're talking to thepeople who they think they're
talking to, and they get theright signatures.
How do you see agencies, beproactive, stay ahead of the
game, and not create an extraburden on themselves when this
legislation does kick in.
Lara (04:14):
All right.
Really good question.
If we think about the old world,with witnessing, you are always
in front of someone, you couldactually see who was signing
those documents, especially whenit came to high value
transactions.
And it's all great thateveryone's jumped online.
They've adopted signingtechnologies and other tech.
However, what got lost and manypeople haven't thought about
(04:35):
along the way is the fact thatthat whole witnessing component
has actually gone.
So if we're thinking about in areal estate transaction usually
involving hundreds of thousandsof dollars, if not millions.
Forms or contracts are gettingsent out to be signed and the
agent can't hand on heart, looksomeone in the eye and say, yes,
(04:56):
I know that was Rob that signedthat form.
So that's where we saw a realrisk in the industry in which we
operate in.
So we decided to close that gapby offering what we almost call
a digital witnessing solutionAnd there's proof that that was
actually Rob, not, you know,someone else is logging in and
signing things that you mightnot be aware of.
(05:17):
So.
What we've developed is we cansend out a form, any forms, get
those signed with our e-signtechnology, and do the
verification of identity checkat the same time.
And then that all comes back asa package.
And that's to negate a lot ofthat risk of not knowing in the
digital world who your signeris.
We've got tranche two comingwith AML, as you already
(05:37):
mentioned, Rob, coming into playnext year is to lean into the
changes.
You know, they've really got aunique opportunity here to to
lead by adopting tools andtechnologies and there's so many
out there, but that can help youlean into that.
So you yourself are managingrisk appropriately.
You are giving that assurity toyour clients that you are also.
(06:01):
You know, protecting their dataand doing all the things that
you can to mitigate anythinggoing wrong during that
transaction.
Because at the end of the day,it's a very stressful time for
the clients who are selling andbuying properties, and they just
want that to be done seamlessly.
Rob (06:15):
Yeah, that's a really good point because it does enable the
currency of trust, which was ahandshake and a look in the eye
to be transferred into digitalspace by saying, Hey our
compliance is a competitiveadvantage, as
Lara (06:28):
Yes.
Rob (06:29):
to, it's a, it's a pain in the bum.
Which, which, let's be honest,no one, apart from compliance
companies likes compliance,
Lara (06:35):
Oh look, I, I, I'm the first to sit here and say, who
loves doing Id checks?
No one.
They sit there and they thinkit's a pain in the ass.
And, and, and I probably thinkthe same around when the, the
AML Tranche Two rules come intoplay.
But again, what I would say is,there's people out there like us
and others who have these toolsto help you get there quickly
(06:56):
and easily and also reallyimportantly provide or, or
conduct those checks where itdoesn't cause friction for the
client.
You want it to be reallyseamless also for them.
So yeah, embrace it.
Rob (07:08):
Embrace it.
I agree.
And one thing that's, happeningand, with Livesign is built into
REISA Master Forms,
Lara (07:13):
Mm-hmm.
Rob (07:14):
which is brilliant, you know, is this embedded
compliance.
So the compliance a lot of thetime can be invisible.
An agent can go through theirnormal workflow.
And just by doing so, becausethe right platforms have been
put into place by the agency,the compliance is embedded and
they can tell their customerthat it's all compliant and
it's, it's it's top tier, but itdoesn't actually mean that they
(07:35):
have to do too much different towhat they did before.
But help me understand this.
So, for agencies that are doingnew things and, what with
Tranche Two, coming on nextyear, there will be a lot of
work to be done, how do youapproach an agency that, that
has a broad spectrum of digitalliteracy amongst their staff?
How do you embed new platformsinto existing businesses?
Lara (07:55):
I often refer to the, you know, there's fatigue in the
industry.
For real estate agents, thereare so many options out there in
terms of all the tech tools thatare available and it can almost
be quite overwhelming trying tonavigate your way through
looking at them all.
Doing assessments and for many,they may not know what they
don't know.
And you know, nor do we, we arelearning too.
(08:18):
We're all in this togetherbecause there's so many emerging
new techs that we're constantlyhaving to learn about and keep
pace with.
I, I do think though it's amatter for each business to work
out what do we need to complywith?
Really take the time tounderstand what legislative
changes may be coming intoplace, and then understand what
(08:39):
your role in that needs to be toreach compliance.
And then assess what options areout there in market and things
will appeal to differentbusinesses from, you know,
different tech tools that areout there.
But, try to think about what doI, I really need, what's gonna
work for my business?
What's easy for them tounderstand, to use, because a
(09:01):
lot of the success of these techtools being successful within a
business is the internaladoption.
So, you know, lean into yourstaff early adopters call or
that embrace new tech and getthem to be your internal
advocates and help your staffinternally.
And that rubs off on everyonethat can help do the training
and, and get them to understandthe benefits by working
(09:24):
together.
And then obviously thosebenefits then also impact your
customers.
And all agencies need to bedoing that these days to remain
competitive, and be seen, to beinnovative because I think we
have a much more sophisticatedlevel of customers and clients
out there now who themselves arelooking into technology and
wanting agencies and their localreal estate agents to be
(09:46):
embracing it too.
Rob (09:47):
Yeah, well said.
Well said.
And and there you have it folks.
Here.
Here we have Livesign.
Built up here in Australia,taking on the big guns around
the world, the likes ofDocuSign, trusted as PEXA's
partner, trusted by REISA to bethe partner for REISA Master
Forms as the AML requirementsstart really coming out.
(10:09):
We'll see, I'm sure Livesign, bebe front and center.
Thank you for your time today,Lara.
Really appreciate yourperspectives on this important
subject.
Lara (10:18):
Thank you so much, Rob, for having me and viewers as
well.
Rob (10:22):
And everyone, head over to the Property Edge website to see
our other episodes and if youfeel like it, sign up for a
newsletter as well.
Anyway, until the next time,bye-bye.
Sonic logo
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