Healing Beyond the Physical: Mind, Body, and Spirit with Kelly Gores

What if true healing involves more than just the physical body? Join Dr. Dave Rabin in an inspiring conversation with filmmaker and author Kelly Gores, where they explore the intricate connection between mind, body, and spirit through the transformative potential of psychedelics, spirituality, and self-awareness. They delve into the field of epigenetics, explaining how our environment and experiences can turn genes on and off, directly impacting health outcomes. With powerful stories like Anita Morjani's near-death experience, Kelly illustrates how a change in perception can open pathways to profound healing and connection to our true selves.

This episode also covers the “illusion of separation” that often leads to loneliness and fear, and how psychedelics can help dissolve this barrier, reconnecting us to a sense of universal love and oneness. Kelly shares her own practices of intention-setting and gratitude as transformative tools, showing how each of us holds the power to shape our reality. 

Tune in to uncover how embracing a holistic approach to healing can unlock resilience, empower us to overcome challenges, and bring us back to our authentic selves.

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kellygores/
Web: https://www.healwithkelly.co/about.html
Twitter: https://twitter.com/DrDavidRabin
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drdavidrabin
Web: https://www.drdave.io/

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
The Psychedelic Reports.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
Psychedelic drugs have played their part in America's long strange
trip toward an understanding of mind.

Speaker 1 (00:09):
All during drugs The Psychedelic News, leading physicians, scientists, and
experts share their wisdom about psychedelic medicines and healing.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Fifty years ago, psychedelic drugs were at the center of
America's counterculture. The brightest minds in psychedelic medicine the Psychedelic Report.
We use the kedemy assisted psychotherapy model that happens to
have psychedelic effects that were not predicted when the drug
was first developed.

Speaker 1 (00:33):
From researchers to investors.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
I think the biggest mistake we pat as the culture
is the war of drugs. So physicians to shamans and
non private pioneers psychedelic drugs.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
Recent research suggests some of them could have legitimate uses.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
The Psychedelic Needs bring you diverse perspectives from the front
lines of this exciting movement, The Psychedelic Report. The Psychedelic
Report was brought to you by Apoll Neuroscience and produced
by Future Medicine Media. Welcome to the Psychedelic Report, your
single source of truth for the Psychedelic News. I'm your host,

(01:12):
Doctor Dave raven I'm a neuroscientist and psychiatrist trained in
ketemine assisted psychotherapy as well as MBMA assisted therapy. The
last week has been very challenging for many Americans and
in a lot of ways seen as a great victory
for others. But regardless of whether you see this as

(01:33):
challenge or victory, one of the biggest things that many
Americans notice is the increase in division between people. The
space between us for many seems to be growing further
and wider. One of the most essential ways that we
as humans build relationships that facilitate healing, whether those are

(01:58):
intimate relationships or friendships or anything in between, is by
coming closer together. Coming closer together is a holistic spiritual
experience that's based around safety, and it really triggers safety
responses in our bodies and in our minds that stimulate vagus,

(02:20):
nerve tone, parasympathetic recovery, nervous system activity, and the ability
for us to feel connected, accepted, loved, and at peace
within ourselves. By coming together creating closeness, we are able
to actually accelerate healing. To do this, which is one

(02:42):
of the most important parts of being alive as a
human on the earth and essential for life as a
human on the earth. We have to take time to
recognize what we all have in common, because as humans,

(03:02):
we and our lives and everything around us is filled
with the richness of diversity. On the surface, we can
appear very different to one another, and we even have
a part of our brains called the amigdala, the fear
center that exists in all animals going back to ancient
mammals hundreds of millions of years old, that is responsible

(03:24):
for detecting differences and fear, and that differences evolved to
trigger a fear response in our bodies. When we get
tricked into thinking that we are more different than we
are similar, we actually get tricked into being afraid of
one another. And being afraid of one another is the

(03:47):
enemy of closeness. It's the enemy of friendship, it's the
enemy of collaboration, and it prevents us from experiencing love
and connection and the healing that comes with it. The antidote,
you might ask, well, it's actually simpler than it sounds.
The antidote is to just remember that we're all human

(04:11):
before we are anything else. When we take a moment
to sit with the recognition that we're all human. First, well,
the first thing that happens is we think about what
it means to be human. What it means to be
human is that we all have the same fundamental baseline,

(04:31):
the same core wants, needs and desires. We all need shelter, food, air, water, sleep,
and love and acceptance by our community. These core parts
of being human are actually the same for all humans

(04:52):
on the face of the earth, including you, the person
who's listening to this right now. Life can be really
hectic and wild and crazy, especially when you bring politics
and the news into the picture, and so it's ever
so important to remind ourselves of what we all have
in common. And then we're all here at baseline for

(05:16):
the same reasons, to heal, to be happy, to find
joy in life, to find our potential and what we're
capable of, to do what we're passionate about, and most importantly,
to spend quality time together and build meaningful relationships. How
does this relate to psychedelic experiences? Well, relationships, especially when

(05:43):
they facilitate access to authentic human connection, soothing touch, starting
with hugs. These are all experiences when you look into
somebody's eyes, who's looking back at you without judging you,
just looking back acknowledging that common ground that we all

(06:04):
have as humans, and that we're all human first. They're
truly undeniable psychedelic experiences, and they are deeply spiritual and
fundamental to the health of not just us as individuals,
but to our entire human race, and fundamental to the
survival and the continued survival of the human race on

(06:28):
this earth. To break this down for you today and
to really dive deep, I'm here with Kelly Gores. Kelly
is an entrepreneur, writer, director, and producer. She gained recognition
for her award winning documentary Heal in twenty seventeen, which
explores the power of the mind body connection and the

(06:51):
body's natural healing capabilities. In twenty nineteen, Kelly authored the
follow up book, Heal, Discover your Limit Potential and Awaken
the powerful healer within. She is the host of Heal
with Kelly, a podcast that inspires, reveals tools, and shares
personal stories of the body's ability to naturally heal itself

(07:16):
when we just simply allow it to. Through the Heal brand,
Kelly aims to empower people by sharing knowledge about the
remarkable ability and intelligence of the human body to expand
our belief of what's possible in this lifetime and become
conscious co creators with our own lives. What could be

(07:39):
more mind revealing and psychedelic than that. Kelly Gore's thank
you so much for joining me today. It is such
a pleasure to have you with us.

Speaker 1 (07:50):
That's so nice to hang out with you again.

Speaker 2 (07:53):
Likewise, I really appreciated the conversation that we had on
your show, and you know how deep we got on
some of the topics around mental health and healing, and
of course you know where that interfaces with psychedelics and technology,
and I think there's a lot of things that we
can talk about that arose from that conversation. And you know,

(08:13):
I think one of the major themes for the year
on the Psychedelic Report has been around conversations on how
to you know, what is it the essence of psychedelic
states and psychedelic experiences, whether drugs are involved or not,
and what kinds of natural practices and phenomenon do psychedelic
experiences kind of enlighten us to and how can we

(08:36):
access some of those more effectively in our general day
to day lives ideally as naturally as possible. And I
know you talk a lot about self healing in your book,
I think it was published in twenty seventeen called Heal,
you know, talking about the power of the mind and
body and the connection between the two and the body's
natural healing capacity. Maybe that's a great place to start,

(09:00):
which is, can you talk a little bit about this
common misconception of the mind body problem, how we often
think about them as being separate, and how you look
at them in your work.

Speaker 1 (09:12):
Yeah, I mean everything to me is you know, it's
all spiritual for me, you know, the conclusion after making
the film Heal and then became a book, now it's
a podcasts continue these conversations. You know, we are spiritual
beings having a human experience. And I feel like the

(09:33):
mind is such a hard thing to define, but it's
you know, the filter of our consciousness. And when I
learned that our subconscious programming that we get we download
from other people. You know, between the ages of in
you to row to seven years old, that's when our
brain is developing and we're just downloading programs from our

(09:55):
caretakers and from our environment, and so we create this
lens filter of the mind through which we look at life.
And for so long we were taught that we are
kind of at the mercy of our genes and our
genetic hereditary factors that are passed down from generation to
generation in our family line. But when I learned about

(10:17):
epigenetics and how our perception of reality and our environment
and different toxins and you know, whether they're physical or
energetic turns on and off genes, they toggle the genes.
So genes are just a blueprint. And this is the
science of epigenetics. So when you're just factoring that science

(10:38):
in the mind obviously takes a front row, you know,
pole position in kind of determining or playing you know,
a part in our health. So you know, heal is
about how our thoughts, beliefs, and emotions affect our physical
health and hinder our or help our ability to heal.

(11:00):
And so I think that our human body is so
brilliantly designed beyond our imagination. I mean, we have trillions
of functions happening without our conscious doing in every moment
that keeps us talking and breathing and heart beating and
detoxing and digesting and all these things that there are
just mind blowing to me and so fascinating. And how
if left to its own device is in nature, with

(11:22):
just basic needs and community, our body does really well,
you know. And so I'm just fascinated about how we
can use the mind, take the reins of the mind,
and consciously kind of have these practices or experiences that
can remove the factors that are hindering us from healing.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
If that makes sense, Yeah, absolutely, And I love that
you just jump right into epigenetics, which is one of
my favorite topics. And you know, I think there's you know,
just to break it down for everybody who's not familiar genetics,
that what's in your DNA, our DNA is the same
in almost every cell of our bodies except our sperm
and egg cells, from the moment we're born to the

(12:00):
moment we die, and that DNA is our base code.
And in every cell, every cell knows to function slightly
differently based on the cell type that it is because
it has an epigenetic layer of additional code. That's it's
you know, epigenetic really kind of means like on the DNA,
genetic is like in the DNA. So if the genetics

(12:22):
are the same in every cell. How does a skin
cell to notav skin and a brain cell not to
be brain. It's because there's a layer of epigenetic code
on there that says, hey, you know, in skin, turn
down brain and turn up skin, and in brain, turn
up brain and turn down skin. Right, and then the
body knows and the cells know how to function in
the particular organ and part of that organ that they're in.

(12:43):
And what I think is really fascinating about the work
that we're talking about when you mentioned epigenetics and the
potential for self healing and that we're kind of born
with this ability and we just need to align our
minds and our bodies to allow it to happen naturally,
is that trauma and stress gets stored in our epigenetic code.

(13:05):
And this is work that originally stemmed from the studies
conducted by doctor Rachel Huda and then expanded into animal
models showing that trauma actually causes changes too the way
that our cortisol receptor genes and probably many other stress
response genes in the safety and recovery and the fear

(13:27):
and stress system operate, and that can actually be passed
down to our offspring if we don't do anything about it,
and that there may actually I think what's really interesting is,
you know, what we're finding from more recent studies in
the data that's coming out is there may actually be
something you can do about it if it's epigenetic, which
provides a lot of hope. Whereas with genetics, the stuff

(13:49):
you're born with that is always the same in every cell,
you can't really do that much about genetics. They're going
to be the same when your die is when you're born,
and we don't want them to change. But there's other
layer of epigetic memory that is really recording that interface
between our DNA, our genetic code, and the environmental experiences
that we have from in you to row through the

(14:11):
end of our lives. And so, you know, I'm curious
to hear from your perspective. You know, when you talk
about spirituality and the body's kind of natural ability to
heal itself, what does that mean? Is that something that
is available to all of us and we just need
to allow it to happen or create the environmental context

(14:32):
for healing to occur, or is you know, is there
more to it than that.

Speaker 1 (14:36):
Yeah, I'll make one comment, then I'll tie it into psychedelics,
because I've just been thinking a lot about how you
kicked off this conversation. But you know, as you talk
about a lot and with you know, the nervous system
and what the apollo neuro does to help us stimulate
as much parasympathetic response as we can and get out
of the stress response, which because of this modern world

(14:58):
we live in, we're just running that fight or flight
freeze fawn mode all the time because we're just inundated
and I don't think our brains have caught up and
involved enough to be able to handle this inundation of
information and technology, and a lot of it negative and
kind of jarring, so we're all running this stress response
all the time. My hypothesis or my conclusion about ultimately

(15:23):
all healing is spiritual healing. I personally believe in a
higher power and an intelligence that's kind of that. I'm
talking to scientists, so you might have a different use
of language around this, But when you go on a
psychedelic journey, I feel like we get glimpses of that
love intelligence, that love, that piece that surpasses all understanding,

(15:47):
that connection to all things, and when we're a spiritual
being that comes into this physical body, this human experience.
There's this illusion of separation that plays out, and then
there's stress and fear and all these things. But when
you're just that spiritual being and the other realm and
where we come from our source, none of that is there.

(16:07):
It's just we're just oneness and all knowing, transcending time
and space. And so when you're on a psychedelic journey,
you get a taste of that, a remembrance of where
we came, our spiritual truth or divine being, our soul
or higher self, whatever you want to call it. And
it has the ability to shift our perception. And so
as long as we can drop that shift in perception

(16:29):
into our subconscious or into the programming our of how
we operate. And it's not just like going from experience
to experience and just having that moment and then it
leaves us. It's like, how do we take that experience,
that remembrance of oneness and our divine wholeness, our innate
wholeness just in our spirit and keep dropping that into

(16:50):
this physical experience, you know, and conscious experience. So all
of that to say, our stress, Like I think one
of our biggest stresses is of death. And so when
I talk to people or when I've heard stories of
people having a near death experience, like, for instance, there's
a woman in Heel that's named Anita mor Janni's. She
had stage four cancer. She was on her deathbed, went

(17:12):
into a coma. Lemon sized tumors from her neck to
her abdomen coming out of her skin. They couldn't tap avy.
I mean, she was so far physically gone, nobody in
the right mind would think that she could recover. And
she had a near death experience. She encountered this like
love that and peace that passes surpasses any sort of
human language could describe it, and had just clarity and

(17:34):
all knowing and interaction with her father's essence that she
had a very tumultuous relationship, traumatic relationship in life. He
had passed on. So there was just this like instantaneous,
all knowing peace, and she did not want to come
back into her human body, But she also knew that
if she came back, because that awareness that every decision

(17:55):
she'd made in life had come from fear and that's
how she developed cancer. If she went back into body
with this new shift in perception and consciousness, that she
would heal, and that's exactly what happened. And her story
is so similar to so many others that have that experience,
and so I truly believe that, you know, for her,
that fear of death was removed because she knows where

(18:16):
she's going. It's a return to that oneness and that
magnanimous love that we can't describe, but it has been
described in so many different religious scriptures, et cetera. So
fear of death is one. And then just this, if
we can develop this some sort of spiritual belief that
this intelligence that is holding the cosmos together and the

(18:39):
seeming chaos, but it's all in perfect order, and we
all go back to that love and we're just having
this crazy human experience to experience all these wonderful things
that light and dark and shadow and light and pain
and pleasure of being human. Then you know, we can
operate in life with trust and faith. And it's a

(19:03):
shift in perception, but it's a good one. Means that
we could operate less in stress and less in resistance
to life, and more in acceptance and ease, which is
the opposite of disease. And you know, so that's it's
hard for me to articulate. Obviously I'm not a master teacher,
but that's that's my sense. And so it's this, you know,
that spiritual healing is if we can, if we can

(19:25):
look at life with that perception. And I think that
psychedelic journeys in the proper assisted way can help us
create that perception of life and that connection and compassion
and love for humanity and ourselves. You know, we could
a lot more support for that innate healer within.

Speaker 2 (19:46):
You're listening to the Psychedelic Report. I really appreciate the
way you describe that, and I think I want to
touch on a couple of points in particular, which the
first and which is this idea of the illusion of separation, right,
which is really interesting because and I call it the
illusion of separation because it's this concept that most humans

(20:10):
have experienced in their lives where we perceive ourselves to
be separate from each other and separate from everything else
around us, despite the fact that we're all sharing this
conscious experience together. And there's plenty of evidence to suggest
strongly whether you're looking at ancient Eastern and tribal medicine
traditions or you're looking at you know, modern healing traditions,

(20:32):
or you're you know, just walking out into nature and
being present with your natural environment in a beautiful place.
This idea of separation, I think is in and of
itself extremely disruptive to the healing process because it conveys
to us if we make the assumption that we are

(20:55):
separate from whatever we call right. And just to put
it out there, all of these things that we're talking
about are hard to describe because we don't have the
adequate language for them. So we're going to try to
put the words to that together for you in this
conversation as best we can. But I think this idea
of separation is not new, and it's something that has
existed in humans and documented very well for thousands of

(21:17):
years through these ancient meditation and Eastern traditions and tribal traditions.
And it's something that is also overcomeable by reminding ourselves
of the connection to source or what many traditions call divinity.
But the connection to divinity being not one with which

(21:38):
we have to seek and can only access through a
priest or a rabbi or a religious person who we
believe to be a gateway to that, but that the
actual connection to Divinity is truly personal to all of us,
and it comes through natural things like our breath and
our intention and our attention and the way that we

(22:00):
side to interact with the world and to think about ourselves.
And I think the idea of separation in the brain,
like neurophysiologically speaking, is really interesting because when we perceive
ourselves to be separate, it opens separate from everything else,
separate from source, separate from what something we might call
God or higher intelligence or divinity or whatever it is,

(22:20):
Separate from each other. That automatically opens up this doorway
to fear through the concept of if I'm separate, then
maybe I'm different, and maybe that's not good, and maybe
that means I'm alone, right, And if I'm alone, then

(22:41):
aloneness or separation from the whole, separation from the group
is the opposite of acceptance and community or unity, right,
And that is one of our we think about like
the five or six major human needs that we all
share as humans that are all required for happy human
life life. It's food, water, air, shelter, safe space, physically sleep,

(23:05):
and then of course unity like connection to and feeling
part of a whole that's bigger than just me. And
if we allow ourselves to what you know, the meditators,
the ancient meditators would call like an untrained mind to
be at the whim of the environment and let the
concept of separation, you know, always end up in this
fear response without which is the loneliness. And what I

(23:28):
think is epidemic in our society today that fear response
and the loneliness is actually directly inhibiting of the healing
response because it triggers our fight or flight stress response
nervous system. And when that nervous system is triggered the
sympathetic nervous system, then we our bodies are actually deprioritizing.
Biologically speaking, we're like deprioritizing resources to the healing nervous system,

(23:52):
which is that parasympathetic rest and digest recovery nervous system,
because it creates an internal state of feeling unsafe. And
so what's so interesting about what I hear you saying
is psychedelic experiences and spiritual experiences become when delivered properly, ethically,
with integrity, et cetera, that you know and love, they
become this really interesting gateway to self healing because they

(24:16):
help to expand our awareness to the connection to everything
else that is inherently always there that maybe we've just
forgotten about or haven't been paying enough attention to. And
as soon as we realize, hey, actually I'm not alone.
I am connected to this greater thing whatever we want
to call it, and I'm part of something bigger and
there's a lot of love involved in that experience and

(24:37):
a lot of security and safety and acceptance that all
of a sudden, a lot of the healing process actually
starts to just happen on its own.

Speaker 1 (24:47):
Yeah, absolutely, and everything. You know, we're magnetic beings too,
So what we if we have subconscious beliefs that are
negative and disempowering, and most of us do. There's this
like kind of unless we have super conscious, well adjusted
parents or spiritual parents, a lot of us have this
innate feeling of like not good enough or unlovable, or

(25:11):
the world is not safe whatever, These like real common,
negative and disempowering beliefs that we get from our childhood
because our parents were just surviving or they were products
of the depression or whatever it was. That's going to
color the lens and we're going to have those beliefs
and then we're going to look through that lens of
our mind with those subconscious programming, and we're only going

(25:32):
to be able to see the mind is going to
filter out all evidence to the contrary. It's kind of
like the social media algorithm. Actually, it's like you're being
fed more of what you believe, and that's why we're
so divided and polarized, and you're not getting the information
to the contrary, so that you're very imbalanced because you're
not getting the whole picture to make a critical thinking decision.

(25:53):
And same with survival, you know, because we're beings that
need to survive on a biological level, and so we
filter out anything that doesn't align with our programming. And
so that's why we like continue the same abusive relationship
or circumstance. You know, we attract. We're magnetic beings based
on our brain and our heart, and the heart sends

(26:15):
out this like frequency based on what's going on in
our brain and our heart. So all of that to say,
we've got to shift our not only like the lens
we look through, but also when we have those expansive
spiritual experiences and experience that oneness and love or have it,

(26:36):
you know, download of realization about a past trauma in
a way that we can embrace it and redefine the story.
And you know, it just gives us again that shift
in perception. Then all of a sudden, we're vibrating at
a different frequency. We change, and then all of a sudden,
the experience is that we draw into our lives and

(26:56):
we're able to see and experience are different. And then
that starts to strengthen the programming in a different way,
a new belief, you know. So I don't know, I'm
just like fascinated with all of that. And I know
that psychedelics, like you said, when done with reverence and
with the proper support and integrity and ethics, to such

(27:18):
a gift to be able to like have a glimpse
of that oneness and that disillusion of separation that our
minds have, you know, that experience that our minds give
us as these you know, human beings. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:33):
Absolutely, And I you know, I almost liken it to
the idea of you know, when you talk about a
reminder of something that's always there. I think that's really
important because you know, a lot of a lot of
people who are unfamiliar with the psychedelic experience. May think
that the experience is what many people call a hallucination,

(27:56):
which implies that it is not real, right, it's something
that's like fast bricated by our minds. Whereas the way
you're describing it, which is often the way that I
describe it to my patients and clients, and the clinical situation,
is really about reminding us of what is actually underneath

(28:16):
the surface that we may have forgotten about what abilities. Right,
you talk about a lot about human potential and manifesting
your human potential and your goals through practic different practices,
and I think a lot of it is, you know,
the first step is if you think you know what
you're capable of in this life and that's the whole story,
which often is a story that others taught us, then

(28:37):
you've automatically closed yourself off to what you might be
capable of that you don't know about. And so how so,
then psychedelic experiences, whether they're induced or achieved through medication
or breathing or yoga or a medicine, are really interesting
because they give you, as you said, that glimpse of hey,

(28:58):
maybe there's more underneath the surface of life that I
haven't been investigating or that I forgot about. But it
feels real in the right safe context because it is
real and it's always there, and it's just a reminder.
It's a it's a refresher. It's almost like, you know,
I see this with a lot of people who I

(29:19):
work with, who are you know, have been single for
a very very long time, and they get into this
brain pattern of thinking, well, I don't need anybody else,
I don't need physical touch, affection connection. I'm great just
the way I am. And then on the other hand,
they're still seeing me because they're having a lot of
problems in their life that are unresolved by everything else
they're trying. And then they end up having a due

(29:41):
to their own intentional choice to you know, bring forth
more human connection in their lives as a way to
see if that might help, they go and do it,
and when they do it and they have that authentic,
genuine human connection with another person, it's like a psychedelic experience.
It's like, oh, my goodness, I forgot how good this

(30:03):
natural feeling feels, and how just having a non judgmental,
authentic conversation with other human or having somebody hold my
hand without expectation, or give me a hug or a
kiss or something like that is actually so profoundly healing
in and of itself, and it just calms people down
to a level that pretty much no drug has the

(30:26):
ability to do. But then, you know, there are interesting
similarities between some of the states people experienced with psychedelics,
as you know we're talking about, and what people access
through these genuine forms of either self intimacy or intimacy
with a partner that is really like a it's a reminder,
it's a refresher of what's really there.

Speaker 1 (30:46):
Yeah. I have such a clear experience with my brother.
I was talking to him on the phone, and he
had been divorced from his first wife, and he met
this girl and she was the little sister of a
friend of his, and the way he was speaking, I
remember where I was when I was having this conversation,
the way he was speaking about their connection, and how

(31:08):
they just talked for four six hours a night, which
blew my mind because I could never do that be
on the phone no long. But the energy that I
felt from him, it was almost like he was floating
like six inches off the ground talking and I just
I had the clear knowing and thought. I was like,
this is what he's experiencing naturally, this like flood of

(31:28):
love through his body, and this connection and excitement is
exactly like what I've experienced on I hate to admit
this with the ecstasy and the party version like I can,
but where you have these realizations, it was like, this
is what we're meant to feel like all the time,
and this is like our source. It's like a remembrance
of our divinity. Right, and then later through MDMA, like

(31:50):
the pure version of that, and it was just so
clear to me. I'm like, that's so so these psychedelics
are giving us a glimpse of how we're designed and
what we have access to. And and as you were
talking before, it's almost like you say, it gives us
a glimpse. It's almost like we have to have this
filter of our programming because otherwise our mind would explode

(32:11):
if we were if we had access to like the
DMT experience all the time, like we wouldn't be able
to be in our bodies, right, we couldn't, So we
need this balance totally overwhelming, So we need this filter.
And then like this life experience of healing is like
cleansing the filter, but finding that balance like where we

(32:33):
get glimpses and remembrance and then we're able to create
a filter that allows us to have this extremely amazing
human experience on this beautiful planet with each other and
innovate and create and express our gifts and experience pleasure
and pain and all the whole thing. Because our souls,

(32:54):
when we're like expanded, we don't get those experiences, you know,
it's just all that overwhelm love and peace and so anyways,
I'm going on and on, but it's it's that fine
line of like cleaning the lens but also realizing that
we need a lens and a filter to be human,
otherwise we'd be total psychotic break.

Speaker 2 (33:17):
Yeah, I mean, we certainly would have a much harder
time functioning in day to day life. Yeah, like crossing
doing simple things like crossing the street, or reading a
headline on a paper and understanding exactly what it means
and all of those kinds of things. But I think
you know, one thing that's really interesting about what we're
talking about is the filter because the filter concept is
actually represented in the brain in what we call a

(33:39):
lateral inhibitory network. That exists between for the most part,
what we call the thalamus, which is where all incoming
information is first brought into the brain, and then the cortex,
which is where long term memories are stored and where
perception and experience kind of really happen on a more
conscious level of awareness and emotions and all the things.

(34:01):
And that filter is trained for the moment, probably before
we're even emerged from the womb, that filter starts to
be trained to what is important to let in. And
this is especially important the first two years of life
of the development of the emotional nervous system. But it's
basically what is important to let in and what is not,
What is relevant to me, what gets me, what gets

(34:21):
me rewarded in life, what gets me punished? Right, All
of those things train that filter to the point where
we learn and automate that filter, and that filter becomes
something that like tinted glasses, if you're wearing them for
years or you know, weeks, you know, you might forget
that you are actually seeing life through a specific kind

(34:44):
of lens and wondering why it's so dark all the time,
But you just forgot you were wearing tinted glasses, right,
and so I think those metaphors are really really strong.
And one of the things that that really interests me
about this is this idea of intention, right, which is
that when we are doing things by way of the
filter we were taught to make by the people who

(35:06):
raised us or the experiences we had growing up, for
so long, we automate a bunch of ways of thinking
about the world and doing things that are often become unintentional,
and then they are not serving us anymore, but we're
still doing them without really thinking or questioning them because
we've been doing them for so long that they are
familiar and that's just what we do. Like whenever you

(35:27):
get stressed out, some people go eat a pint of
ice cream, or sit on the couch and and binge
on Netflix, or you know, do drugs or whatever it is.
But they're not doing it because they necessarily think that's
good for them. They're doing that because that's what they've
trained their filter to automate as a responsive action. And
so that is an unintentional act and it's usually not

(35:47):
something that we really mean to do. But what psychedelic
experiences do in the healing process, it's so interesting, is
it expands our awareness of our actions and our thoughts
and beliefs to the point where we start to recognize
and ask the questions of, oh, why do I believe
that about myself? Or why does this particular thing that

(36:08):
happens in my life make me want to go numb
myself by binging on Netflix all night or for days
at a time. Well, when you ask those questions and
you start to realize, oh, wait, there's actually a reason
why this is happening, and this is a process I've automated.
All of a sudden, you realize, hey, I actually have
more agency and power over the outcome of the situation

(36:29):
by bringing intentionality into the experience, by actually saying, hey,
I just noticed that I'm feeling upset because XYZ happened.
Rather than just doing the automated behavior, we say, maybe
that automated behavior hasn't been working for me and getting
the accomplishing my goals. It hasn't been helping me manifest
what I actually want in my life. Is the outcome
to stop these kinds of things from happening, Maybe I

(36:51):
need to choose the road less travel than make a
different intentional or more intentional, well thought out choice and
this really brings up this content except of manifestation. You're
listening to the Psychedelic Report. It's this empowering idea that
if intention is the output of our human energy, our will,

(37:12):
then intention time's time. To put it really simply as
math equals manifestation, right, And so you know you've done
You've written a lot about this, and I'm curious, can
you talk a little bit about manifestation as a concept
and these practices that we can use to start to
bring forth in our lives what we actually want rather

(37:33):
than maybe what we were taught we think we should want.

Speaker 1 (37:35):
Yeah, yeah, I mean there's so much to discuss, but
I guess I started learning about manifestation and frequency, quantum
physics and law of attraction maybe and around the same
time that I started meditating, and just all of the
teachers I was studying at the time made me realize

(37:57):
that we're you know, we have free will, so we're
co creators with life. And when we shift our attention
or we put our attention on something, or we set
an intention or we do something with intention, it's almost
like the lens, right. If we focus on something, we're
going to see more of that if we have a
thought and a belief, we're going to see more evidence

(38:17):
of that. So to start to kind of grab the
reins of our conscious mind rather than if we didn't
have the reins, our brain would just be searching the
environment for threats all the time, which is why, which.

Speaker 2 (38:29):
Is what it often does when it's been trained.

Speaker 1 (38:32):
Right, yes, exactly, But once we start to have practices
like meditation, learn about law of attraction or law of resonance. However,
a lot of attraction has a kind of a bad rap.
But quantum physics and how we're all connected in this
field and what I love, what really resonates with me
is kind of along the lines of Jodas Benz's work

(38:52):
because he's in the film and he realized through healing
his own body, he really helped support through his mind
and heart and coherence helped his spine heal from a
really gnarly car accident, Like he got nailed t boned
on a bike in a triathlon by a bronco and

(39:13):
he was this, you know, elite athlete and was told
he was never going to walk again. So he's just
sitting there and his background is chiropractic, so he has
a very clear vision of the spine and how it
all connected and it works. And the doctor said he
needed to have this Harrington Rod surgery and would probably
never walk again. So he was just like, okay, well,
I'm gonna be laying here in a bed, so I
might as well use my mind. So we started just

(39:34):
visualizing his spine healing, and then fear would hijack his
mind and he start to think about being in the
wheelchair the rest of his life, and he's just like, okay, now,
so you got to get back. So he would just
practice over and over visualizing his spine healing, and he
finally got it, like after three to six weeks or something.
And then what he started to do was think of

(39:54):
all the things that he had taken for granted when
he could walk and run and do all these things
like walking on the be each, watching a sunset, making love,
just standing in a hot shower, like all these things
we take for granted. Driving And he started to think
of those things and just being so grateful and the
relief of like being able to do those again. And

(40:15):
so he figured out this formula of like visualization using
our mind and then feeling the elevated emotion of gratitude
of the outcome desired as if it already happened, because
he says, gratitude is the state of receivership, like you've
when you feel grateful, you've received what you've desired. And

(40:35):
so I play with that, and I saw it in
my own life. I started like gratitude journaling, and I
would write down things that I was actually grateful for,
and then I would write down things that I wanted
as if they already happened that I was grateful. I'm
so happy and grateful that I got this promotion, I'm
getting paid X amount of money. I'm so happy and
grateful now that I have a healthy baby child, you know,
whatever those things are that you want. And I would

(40:56):
just write it, and it feels super silly at first,
But within three months I manifested this crazy job I
didn't even know existed. And in the last like fifteen years,
I'd say, like, I've manifested some pretty awesome stuff. But
really it's not about the stuff, you know. It's obviously
my stuff is more like experiences. And I think that

(41:18):
for me, when you can change your state and live
in a state of gratitude or more elevated emotions and
like I said, taking the reins of your mind, training
the mind through meditation, having the awareness of when we
get triggered at going. Oh that's an old belief from
when I was two years old and that was the
way I kept safe and survived. But maybe I'm a

(41:41):
grown ass woman now and that belief no longer serves me,
you know. So it's cultivating awareness, understanding, you know, the
power of when you combine visualization with the elevated emotion
and just these practices can really shift your life. And
I've been through some intense probably the most intense emotional
two years of my life, and I've gotten a lot

(42:03):
of support from healers and intuitives and practitioners and therapists,
and I've needed all that support, and I've still felt
the emotions. Even with all the resources that I had.
I still have to go through those experiences, you know,
of intense emotions, because that's just strength. I have a
deep level of awareness and self reflection, but I am
required to go deeper and more, you know. So been

(42:25):
doing journeys I've been, and it's really understanding how energy
works and how we're all connected and how when we
shift our state and frequency, we are going to shift
the reality that we experience and what we call into
our lives and what we're just even open and available
to that lens changes. And then also knowing that like,

(42:47):
we're here to experience. Our souls chose this life, and
we're not just here to be like happy all the
time and manifest shit, you know, We're here to like
feel and experience it all so that we can continue
to expand our consciousness and understand the game the whole thing,
you know, so.

Speaker 2 (43:05):
Yeah, and to find and achieve our potential, right, Like, yeah,
I think so much of what we're here for, and
you know, I think you talk about this a lot,
is this idea, Like we're here in large part to
self discover ourselves. And if we choose to constantly practice
gratitude as an emotional muscle that we can intentionally put

(43:25):
our will into, then we tend to feel more grateful
about life and in general therefore better about life because
we've literally practiced and strength and a muscle that's focus
solely an emotional muscle that's focused solely around feeling grateful
for things that have happened to us or for ourselves

(43:46):
or for you know, waking getting out of bed this morning,
or whatever simple thing it is that you can find
to be grateful for. The more things, and this is
also an ancient meditation practice, right, it's the more things
that you can find to be grateful for, the better.
And that's a great skill to learn because there's infinite
things to be grateful for. So the more that we
do that, the better. And it's really interesting because because

(44:08):
the you know, when you think about this, just as
gratitude itself, I think it becomes a little bit challenging
for people to grasp it. But when you think about
what you're doing when you're not grateful, then it really
comes to the surface, which is, if I'm not thinking
about being grateful for myself, what am I thinking about? Right?
I'm thinking about why me? Why do I have to

(44:30):
deal with this shit today? Right? What's wrong with me
that this shit keeps happening to me? Right? What did
I do to deserve this? You remember the shit Happens shirt?

Speaker 1 (44:40):
Right?

Speaker 2 (44:41):
So, yeah, like one of the most famous shirts of
every funny shirts of every religion and their comments about
you know what they say when bad stuff happens in
your life? Right, And every religion and culture has some
different way of describing and responding to what, you know,
bad things when they happen. And you know, I think
the you know, it's if we're not grateful, what are

(45:02):
we Well, in the case of Jodas Benza, he's not
grateful for being able to do all the things that
he could do when he could walk, then he's probably
thinking about and putting a lot of time and human
energy into thinking about how crappy it is that he's
in the situation he is, and you know, how terrible
it is that he will never walk again. And then
he's literally putting energy out into the world that is

(45:27):
along the lines of I am never going to walk again, right,
And it's a certain acceptance of that. And so where
this this practice becomes really elegant is and I think
very scientific is and goes back to Eric Candell's Nomal
Prize winning work abount Memory and Experience is the more
we do anything, the better we get at it. So

(45:47):
if we know that and we know that, we're strengthening
neural networks around fear, when and judgment, you know, which
which in Buddhism, you know, really is a fast track
to suffering, right, and that's what we're choosing to spend
our time and our human energy on, then we are
going to be manifesting that more in our lives. And

(46:08):
so if we realize we can, And this is where
psychedelic experiences are really interesting because they open up this
awareness to hey, maybe there is a different choice here.
Maybe I can be and near death experiences too, right,
Maybe there is something I can find to be grateful
for in this situation despite the fact that it is
still really shitty objectively speaking, Right, can I still manage

(46:33):
to find things to be grateful for? And if I can,
and I strengthen the gratitude muscle and put my energy
into that, then maybe I will have more of that
in my life and less fear. Right, And that's kind
of manifestation.

Speaker 1 (46:47):
And in this journey of making heal, I've interviewed so
many I'm just so fascinated by these miraculous spontaneous healings
and also just people that have gone, okay, take the
power back, tap into their intuition. Do these like ten
essential things for healing that we talk about in the book,
And I could name them now, but only two of
the ten are three of the ten are physical and

(47:08):
the rest are mental, emotional, and spiritual. And it has
to do with social support. It has to be changing
your diet, using herbs and supplements, exercising, tapping into your intuitions.
When a doctor tells you something and it doesn't feel
good in your body, like really taking control back and
don't you know, get the information, get the diagnosis, but
don't accept the prognosis of what someone tells you is

(47:29):
possible for your life or a statistic that is normal.
You know, we are supernatural beings. And everybody that's healed
from something they were told they could not all of them,
every single, one hundred percent of the time, they don't
want to change anything. That process, even though it was
hell fire to go through, is the greatest gift that
they've ever received, and it catapulted them to their potential

(47:51):
and their gifts and their life's work and everything else.
And so knowing that you know, just like you said,
this frequency that's going to call, you can either be
ingratitude and excpt or you could be in victimhood and
why me and woe is me? And it's totally natural
as a human when we were faced with a challenge,
when we're faced with the tragedy, when we're faced with
the diagnosis to be woe is me and feel bad

(48:11):
because it fucking sucks. Sorry, I don't know if we've
curse on this. Absolutely okay, yeah, but don't stay there
because when you're in the victim frequency, you're giving all
of your power away, that life force energy. And I
think that why I think all healing is spiritual healing,
is it's teaching us to have a belief and acceptance

(48:32):
that life is for us and never against us. Our
souls chose these experiences. That's why when people move through
them and they get to the other side, they look
back and they wouldn't change a thing. And so if
we can cultivate enough awareness to you know, feel the
natural human emotions of anger, grief, rage, you know, woe
is me, and then snap out of it and go, Okay,

(48:53):
this is what I'm dealing with. Acceptance is the first
stage in healing. Then you're not in resistance. When when
you're in resistance, you're in stress and you're shutting down
all of your healing capability. And I think you know,
to tie it into psychedelics. When you're on a journey,
a lot of the realization is it all makes sense.
Everything is happening for a reason. There is a perfect

(49:15):
order to this chaos. And my dad was a fucking asshole,
and you know, because he created the personality that I
am today that is allowing me to express my gifts
like it gives us this like glimpse into the perfection
of all the chaos, the divine order of it, and
again that shifts our perception. So yeah, that I just

(49:36):
love that talk around frequency of switching into gratitude, cultivating
that in that awareness so that we can live life
intentionally and not be in the disempowerment of you know,
victim mindset, et cetera.

Speaker 2 (49:51):
Yeah, it's really the act of taking our human power back, right,
you know, recognizing that maybe we don't know what we're
capable of, going back to this idea of human potential. Right,
maybe I was taught and going back to what we
first started talking about, maybe I was taught that my
mind and body are separate and that I can't influence

(50:11):
my body with my mind. And I can't. My body
doesn't influence my mind and how I feel. But we
know now from lots of neuroscience studies that's not true. Right,
When you're physically ill and you don't do anything about it,
you get mentally ill. When you're mentally ill and you
don't do anything about it, you can get physically ill. Right.
These are known facts, it's not conjecture. And I think

(50:31):
when you start to tie that into hey, if my
mind and body are fundamentally connected, then the things I
do to heal my body, like you were talking about
the ten things, right, These things that I do to
heal my body and treat myself well, even though I
might have been taught that my body is an unsafe
place or not good enough or what have you, actually

(50:51):
heal my mind and heal me emotionally, mentally, spiritually. And
the things I do to heal my mind in terms
of training my thoughts, my meditations, my yoga, my gratitude practices,
these things that train attention and are really restoring and
healing the body. And it's a constant feedback loop that
we start to train that results in this unlocking of

(51:14):
our potential. Which it's okay to not know what we're
capable of. Right, In some ways, it really make it
demystifies the unknown by making it exciting and discoverable rather
than a thing we should be afraid of because we're
not sure what works around the corner of ourselves.

Speaker 1 (51:31):
Totally, totally, and I think too, like you know, technology,
these conveniences and comforts of our modern life have been
kind of let run wild, and it's great, but they're
also making us sick, right because we're stressed out and
we don't have that healthy stress and resilience. And you know,

(51:52):
but I also believe that we have these technological advancements
and we have such sophistication as human beings and through
these I mean, I know so many people that after
psychedelic experience have gotten like downloads of like companies to
start and technologies to create and like wild stuff, you know.
And so I think that a lot of our issues

(52:16):
have come from this over inundation of technology and disconnection
from nature. And now as we are through plant medicine
and just through awareness and coming back to nature and
this reconnection of nature, I think we will start to
be able to consciously create technologies that are healthy and

(52:37):
safe and like we're going to heal through technology too,
but we've got to do it in the connected to
nature and our true essence and like in a very conscious, ethical,
reverent way, if that makes sense.

Speaker 2 (52:50):
Yeah, I like I talk about this a lot, the
idea of like human centered technology, right, rather than technology
that we serve right, where actually creating technology as teammates,
partners and tools that serve us and make our lives
better and teach us how to be better humans as
collaborators rather than AI overlords right right, And that you

(53:13):
know that these are technologies just tools, they're just tools.
But if we are handing them to each other and
creating them and giving them out and not giving people
the instruction manual of how do you use this thing
without hurting yourself? Whether it's a firearm or a smartphone, right,
people are going to hurt themselves, right, it's the same.

(53:36):
Or a condom, right if you give you create a
create something like a condom as protection for contraceptives and STDs,
but you don't tell anybody how they should use it
or why or when how many people are going to
use them successfully? Not most people, right, right? And we
know that, And so I think, like what we're really
I think what a lot of this is really calling

(53:57):
for to me is like how do we create? And
what I like about about heel and your work. A
lot is that it creates like a sort of basic
framework for like a guidebook, construction manual for people to
understand that these are just tools and they can use
it all these different ways, but we need to understand
how to use them and how to use them thoughtfully

(54:18):
intentionally to get what we want or we're going to
get what we don't want.

Speaker 1 (54:22):
Yeah, totally. That's why I love the Apollo though, because
we need all the help we can get to balance
out our nervous system and to counterbalance a lot of
these invisible and you know stressors that we've developed from
the use of technology and the misuse of technology, and
then just like getting back to these ancient technologies of

(54:44):
sound and light and rhythms of nature and not losing
those like that should be our foundation. And then put
the icing on the cake with things like the Apollo
neuro and things that can enhance our abilities to heal
and other things.

Speaker 2 (55:01):
You know. Yeah, absolutely, And I'm really hopeful for the future.
I think there's a lot more exciting stuff coming. We
just talked about a little bit of it. But for
everybody who's listening, check out Heal, check out the documentary
it's awesome and the book that came out shortly thereafter,
and Kelly's work and do you have any anything you

(55:22):
want people to look up or where to find you
after this?

Speaker 1 (55:27):
No, Just at heel with Kelly on Instagram is where
we do a lot of our podcast content. And the
Heal documentary if you haven't seen it is on Amazon Prime.
And yeah, and then I'm at Kelly Gorris on Instagram.

Speaker 2 (55:43):
Awesome. I just want to thank you again for taking
the time to join me.

Speaker 1 (55:47):
Yeah, thank you always. I love our deep dives.

Speaker 2 (55:51):
Thanks for listening to The Psychedelic Report. Visit us at
the Psychedelic Report dot com. This is recorded weekly on
Clubhouse with a live audience. The Psychedelic Report was brought
to you by a poly neuroscience and produced by Future
Medicine Media. While I am a doctor, I'm not your doctor,

(56:14):
So please don't take anything you hear on The Psychedelic
Report as personal medical advice, because we don't know you.
If you have questions about anything you hear on this show,
please consult with your doctor.