Kingdom Work in Public Spaces: A Conversation with Haley Wherry

Episode Transcript
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(00:02):
Welcome to the Pulpit and Porch.I'm Tony Maher and with me, as
always, is my friend Robert Kell.
Hey everybody, we are so glad you're here.
The pulpit and porch is where wekick back, put up our feet and
have real conversations about life, faith, growth, and maybe
even a little sports and pop culture.
If you're looking for a perfectly polished sermon,
you're probably in the wrong place.
Yeah, around here it's more about those honest heart to

(00:22):
heart conversations, like the one you'd have on a front porch
with good friends. Sometimes we stay on track,
sometimes we take the same group.
And honestly, that's half the fun.
Fun, isn't it? We dig into the highs, the lows,
and all the in betweens of living out your faith in real
life. Along the way, we may pull up a
few extra chairs and invite somefriends under the porch to share
stories and ideas that just may change the way that you see
things. So whether you're chasing your

(00:43):
purpose, building your faith, orjust trying to live a little
more fully, pull up a chair, grab some sweet tea and join us.
This is the pulpit and porch. We got a seat waiting for you.

(01:04):
It's a beautifully dreary day. It's raining so much right now.
There was a police officer next to Harris Harrison Church this
morning like they had the. Harrison, not heritage.
Not Heritage Harrison. We had the road blocked off with
cones. I think it flooded.
I was coming the other way, but it had already flooded.

(01:25):
And so, yeah, good times here inNortheast Tennessee today.
It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood.
So you're, we have a guest today.
We do. And you're going to you're going
to hate what I'm about to tell you and you're going to start to
question like the conspiracy of it.
But Hailey Weary is our guest today.

(01:47):
We met about 23 years ago and the first thing we really did
together is he invited me to hishouse to watch our favorite NFL
team. I'm sorry, wow, I'm sorry.
That's a rough life and for 23 years you guys have mourned and

(02:08):
lived in a somber state together.
It's all right. I mean, we're, we're not
delusional with Cowboys fans. Every year is our year.
We're like Tennessee football fans, aren't we?
Yeah, that's good this year. Did you see the thing that he
said, Haley? No, Jerry.
Jerry said yesterday in his press conference, he was talking
about basically he was going through all the things of

(02:30):
keeping eyes on the Cowboys and that keeping eyes on the team is
the most important thing. And he said, and if I have to
step into the light and create controversy to get eyes on the
team, that's what I'll do. And I'm going.
That's why we'll never win againuntil he's gone.
They were Cowboys fans, not Jerry.
That is how I pull for like European league football.

(02:52):
I pull for Pep Guardiola. I don't care who he coaches for.
So right now I'm pulling for ManCity because Pep coaches there.
If he moves, I'm immediately like switching my alliance or
allegiance, I mean, to whatever team he goes to.
I'm very much a Cowboys fan and wish that you know Jerry Jones
was not there. So Tony, cheer for.
I'm a Seattle Seahawks fan. OK, well at least you're not a

(03:13):
Redskin. Yeah, definitely not.
No, I, I do. We were talking before we
started recording on how much time we spend on writing
sermons, writing teachings. I want to know how much you you.
I won't give away how much time you spend, how much time I
spend. That's controversial and and

(03:34):
quite frankly, a private matter that someone should keep.
I'm probably. Half ish of yours but yeah.
Yeah, I don't know that that's true, but I want to know how
much time you are already spending researching your
fantasy football team. I have spent zero at this point.
I do one league and it is just afamily league and so it is my

(03:56):
boys and and male and so that's all we do.
And somebody usually has to run 2 teams.
They won't let you do 5 teams and somebody have a bye week.
So I don't know, we'll see. Everybody's pretty busy.
I hope we get through it again this year, but I've spent 0.
Haley, do you do fantasy football?
The first year I did it, I was undefeated, dominant and then

(04:17):
got into the playoffs and I had to play the bottom seed and he
hadn't touched his team in 10 weeks and most of my players
were sitting the bench because they had once wrapped up
playoffs and his he didn't even like, didn't touch it.
He defeated me and I'm like Nope, not doing this again.
I'm out, I'm out. Tony, you you can, you can you

(04:40):
can be a little intense. How?
How much time have you already spent for?
Your well, we're still in fantasy baseball season right
now so and. Baseball still be going when?
Yeah, but our draft isn't for a couple weeks.
So I haven't, I haven't started.But when it's draft time, when
we're getting into draft, I willhave sheets, I will have lists,

(05:03):
I will have rankings of who I want, where I want them, where
I'm willing to go for them. But right now I'm, I'm still,
you know, I spend, I spend a about 10 minutes a day on
fantasy baseball. Haley and I'm with church
together for a while and the church that we were at the the
children's pastor there LED a fantasy Football League and
that's the first time I'd ever done it.

(05:23):
And this was pre online computerY things you couldn't do drafts
that way. And so we would all show up.
He would get a monstrous whiteboard and he we would show
up and he already had it lined out and I mean it was ready.
Had everybody's names in and as we would pick players and he
would write them all in and it was in, you know, take a picture

(05:44):
at the end. And and so we would all like.
Never got to experience that. That was pretty fun and it was
very, very different. We would all bring food and
things. We'd sit around in the youth
room and do a huge like 15 of usand do a huge fantasy football
draft and it was awesome. I loved it.
I miss that. You can do it again.

(06:06):
Very young if you're listening to Make it Happen.
Go for it re revitalize, resurrect that Robert.
I'm out, I'm too lazy to do that.
I'm almost going to stick with the computer and I can let it
auto pick for me if I want to. So hey, enough football talked
Hailey Weary. We literally have been friends
for 20 some years, met doing what's We met at a para church

(06:31):
ministry that you are still doing the basically the exact
same thing that we met you're doing 23 years ago.
I know it has evolved and you'vetaken some different roles at
times and you've had, you know, different levels of, of your,
you know, in the organization oryou've worked with certain teams

(06:53):
and things, but you lead campus ministries all across.
Now it's mainly just Northeast Tennessee, but you've LED campus
ministries in northeast Tennessee, southwest Virginia,
and western North Carolina at times in 20 and 25 ish years, 30
years here in northeast Tennessee. 252626.
So here's here's the thing that I would say to Haley is that you

(07:16):
and I both have a history in student ministry.
We did student ministry for better part of a decade.
I think each of us, and I think everyone who gets into student
ministries thinks that they're going to be a lifer, that this
is going to be something that I thought that I was going to be
Doug Fields. I would be in my in my late 30s,
early 40s, you know, a geriatricold man still doing student

(07:38):
ministry. When I first got started, I'm
sure you felt the same way. Nobody goes into student
ministries thinking, man, I'm inthis for two years until I can
do something else. But there are very few.
I've talked at length that thereare three life phases in student
ministry, that you've got the friend phase, you've got the

(07:59):
parent phase, and you've got thegrandparent phase.
Very few people make it to that grandparent phase.
Very few make it to that parent phase even.
You've been at this for 20 some odd years. 3032 full in youth.
Ministry, 32 years in youth ministry.

(08:19):
You, my friend, are a lifer. And that is to be commended and
celebrated. And I'm excited to have you here
on our show today and hear aboutyour longevity here as both of
us, parents of teenagers, how you've survived that long, how

(08:40):
how you've how you've made it that long.
So thank you for joining us. And yeah, like Robert said,
you've been doing this for a while.
You are. What's your official title now?
I'm an area coordinator. Area coordinator for first
priority, what is explain to ourlisteners?
We've got listeners all over thecountry.
I'm not sure if first priority is national International, how

(09:03):
far the reach is, but just explain what first priority is,
what you guys do, what your mission is, and all of that fun
stuff. Well, I am with first part of
America. There is a first priority,
Global 2 separate, you know, 2 separate organizations.
So the first priority is around the world.
Here in America we're in about 42 or 45 areas, community cities

(09:25):
across the country and growing almost every day.
Our ministry, our vision statement is to take the hope of
Christ to every student. So the philosophy is that we
have to work together as a localchurch to go and reach students
where they are, and that's the school.
So the the way we do the take the hope of Christ to every
student is to unite the churchesaround middle and high school

(09:47):
campuses and empower students tobe missionaries to take the
gospel. And that the goal is that every
student, before they graduate from high school, has a chance
to hear the gospel at least one time from a peer.
That's great. Yeah.
And I'd say that's, that's a bigpart of this because like in, in
our amount of your time of in all of our time of student

(10:08):
ministry, there's a lot of there's a lot of different way,
I mean, different ways that people go about and different
organizations go about investinginto the campus, local campus
and working with students. But you said you're quipping
students and empowering them to go into their campuses.
Explain a little bit more about how first priority works for

(10:31):
leaders there for you listeners.I mean, that don't know.
And, and maybe they've got high school kids and they're asking
some questions about, you know, man, how can I quit my kid?
How, how are you guys going about equipping and training
kids to take on that leadership role?
Well, we are a tool for the local church.
I mean I did youth minister for that 30 something years and
learn very quickly that you can't just throw concepts out to

(10:53):
teenagers. You have to have give concrete.
So if you say, I want you to go reach your friends for Christ,
to the average teenager, I thinkthey think they have to stand up
on the lunchroom table with a Bible to one hand, a finger
pointed to other and scream, you're going to hell kind of
thing. And they don't want to do that,
right? That's just not the way they
designed it. They're not a pastor or
whatever. So first priority becomes a tool

(11:14):
for the student pastors and the churches to go, OK, we want you
to exercise and and live out your faith and share the gospel
with your peers. And here is a way of doing it.
So the students unite together on the campus.
They create a club because they have the 1st Amendment rights,
the equal access right to meet on a on a campus.
Schools cannot deny them that opportunity.

(11:35):
So they meet together and they lead everything they do, the
speaking and the teaching and the planning and the follow up.
They are mentored by adults, a teacher sponsor for every club.
And then we have club coaches that are not not employees of
the school system. They're typically youth pastors,
pastors and parents. They are mentoring the students
as the students lead, but they carry out what we call an epic

(11:58):
cycle. It's a EPINC.
It's an acronym for epic, the epic cycle, equip, prepare,
invite and connect. So when they get together on the
first time they meet, they, they, they equip each other with
the gospel, how to share it. So they're talking through.
We use the campus crusades, 4 spiritual laws condensed into
four symbols, a heart, a division symbol across in a

(12:18):
question mark, and they learn the points behind God loves you,
sin divide you, Christ redeems you, and we need to respond to
that. So get into conversations
through that. We use other tools for that, but
that's our main one. On the second week of the cycle,
it's prepare week and they're preparing their testimonies.
So every Christian needs to be able to share the story of how
the Gospels impacted them, especially for the purpose of

(12:41):
witnessing to others. And the third week is invite
week. That's an invitation to come and
hear the gospel message or a personal invitation on
one-on-one somewhere, maybe at the lunch table or at sports
team, you know, practice or whatever in the locker room.
But it's an invitation to hear the gospel and respond.
And then the last is connect week and that's connecting
students to a local church to benurtured and disciple.

(13:03):
So the idea is these students can be putting their faith into
practice, learn how to share thegospel.
They're doing it with others. So it's not just a one-on-one
kind of situation. There's working together with
other students from other churches and they can invite a
friend to hear the gospel. That friend can make a
profession of faith, get pluggedinto church, come back the next
time and learn how to share the gospel and invite their friends.

(13:24):
That cycle snowballs throughout the year.
And that you mentioned there a second ago that, you know, they
can't be denied. And that's, that's kind of a
misconception. A lot of times with people
inside of inside of ministry, you know, a ministry like first
priority, you know, FCA, there'sother organizations that
function inside of that, that that students, if it is a

(13:45):
student LED, you know, a club that's looking for my word
there, if a student LED club, they they can't be denied access
to doing that. That's a misconception by a lot
of people on the outside and even sometimes people on the
inside of the schools. Yeah, you hear people say all
the time that the Bible or prayer or whatever has been
removed from the schools and in some way that's true.

(14:07):
And I don't have a problem with that because if his principles a
Christian wants to talk about the Bible, that we OK with me.
But what if the pastor or the principle mean is another
religion or an atheist or something?
I don't want them. I don't want them evangelizing
my my student, my child. So I don't have a problem with
the adults in the school not able to share their faith but or

(14:28):
limited in what they can do. But the students have the
freedom of religion, the freedomof of assembly, the freedom of
speech, and they can share the gospel.
The only rule is they can't interrupt class time.
So they couldn't just stop a class and start preaching.
That would be the one thing thatthey can't do.
But other than that, they can have the conversation.
So they have that freedom to do it.

(14:49):
And one of them you hear the saying the other time all the
time is if as long as there's tests in schools will be prayer
along that funny kind of quote is yes, as long as there are
Christians in a school, God's going to be in a school, Prayer
is going to be in a school. Scripture is going to be in a
school. So we need to empower the
students that are there, that are believers to live that life

(15:10):
out in front of them for their peers.
And we don't have a lot of high school students, middle school
students that listen to our show.
I don't know that we have any. I don't think ours even do.
I know mine don't. But we do have a lot of people
that are leading in secular spaces.
And I think that one of the things that we really want to

(15:31):
focus on today is something thatyou guys are doing so well is
taking the gospel into places that usually we don't think of
being as missions fields. You probably imagine a far off
country as you think of a mission field.
You don't very often think of a mission field as a cafeteria at
your local middle school. But it is a jungle in those

(15:54):
little middle schools. Trust me.
And they are unreached people groups.
They. Really are say 95% of every kid
in the middle and high school doesn't know Jesus.
And more and more we're getting surprised by how many kids don't
even know the name of Jesus, don't know what a Bible is.
So it's not only a a lost mission field, it's also an
urgent one. Statistically, most Christians

(16:17):
become follow Jesus before they turn 18 years old.
And I think it's like 85% something like that
statistically. And I've been I'll be in a
church and I'll stay that and people don't don't believe that.
And I say, OK, if you're here and you accepted Christ after
you turn 18, stand up. And it's usually 10 or 15% of
the audience that comes that stands up.

(16:37):
So whatever a student ends up graduating believing in, chances
are they're going to believe in that when they die, unless God
radically does something. Most people that come to know
Christ afterwards have somethingthat God just shakes their lives
up. And so it's an urgent mission
field. It's a large mission field.
And it's as one student said, weare to be fishers of men, and
God puts all the fish together 100 a day, 180 days a year.

(17:02):
After all, fish do swim in schools, right?
Haley it's probably once or twice a week that my wife and I
will look at each other and say all hope is lost.
There's no hope. What gives you hope about the
next generation? Well, I mean you go back a lot
of times. Youth, youth groups 10/15/20

(17:24):
years ago were very large groupsof students.
I look back at my first youth ministry, it went from 12 to 120
kids very quickly. But I look back at those 120
kids and I'd say most of them are still living the way they
were living when I first met them.
They're, they weren't impacted and changed by the gospel.
They're not living for Christ. Well, I think there are fewer

(17:45):
kids today that would call themselves Christian, which in
some ways is a good thing because they're not really
Christians being with. So they're learning.
It's, it's becoming more real tothem.
The ones that do remain are veryserious about their faith.
It's not especially when they get out in the college.
I work with college students in,in at my church.
And the cool thing about them iswhen they come, they're there on

(18:08):
their own volition. They want to be there.
They want they're hungry, they want to work.
And I think that's happening andmore and more with students.
So there's a if you call it a remnant, the remnant that's
there is very serious about their faith.
And then I think most of them, we're in a culture that really
doesn't give any responsibility to students and actually
protects them so much that when a student does kind of realize

(18:28):
that they have some authority and they have some ability, when
they see God use their gifts andtalents, they'd start having a
hunger for it. And so there's a hunger out
there right now and a sense among Christian students that
there's something, everything. They put their faith in their
parents with their faith in his failing.
And I think they're starting to turn back to the more concrete,

(18:52):
even though they're more liturgical kind of belief in
Christianity. They want those practices.
They want that that something that's real.
They're tired of all the fake stuff.
So I would get excited to, when I see kids lead a friend of
Christ, click in their head thatGod can use them.
It's really exciting to see that.
One of the things I love about what you guys are doing is that

(19:13):
you're equipping students to do the work.
How can adults support student ministry?
Either parent church organizations like First
Priority FCA or within their local church youth groups,
student ministries. How can adults support student
ministry without completely justcoming in and taking it over?
Well, we use we we have the fourPS that we talked about churches

(19:37):
or or adults can help. First is prayer.
We just came out of the Tennessee weekend of prayer over
students and we're 70 something schools just here locally.
I had prayer walks on them and just to be able to turn a
believer in a church's mindset to the school as as a mission
field and the students as missionaries to been praying
over them. The second P is to promote to

(20:00):
promote the idea that, hey, our kids can be missionaries and the
schools are mission fields and we can find organizations and
ministries to get behind and andgetting other churches who were
talking about what what makes ithard to do what we do in the
schools. It's not getting kids in the
schools. It's actually getting churches
to do something together. So including churches to be a
part of it too. The second one is to

(20:21):
participate, encourage their kids to be a part of it.
Mentor adults to mentor teachersto be faculty sponsors.
One of the things that I love tosee a a school do or a church do
is actually treat a student as amissionary.
Commission them in front of the congregation, lay hands on them
and pray for them. Put their mission field on your

(20:43):
mission board. You know, you have African,
South America and or whatever, put the schools on there too.
Yeah, sometimes your missions trip is just walking into
homeroom. Yeah, that's something that we
talk about a lot and I'm sure that you guys have as well in
student ministry. You know, we load up and we go,
maybe it's two or three hours away, maybe it's, you know, 20
hours away. And, and we train kids to

(21:05):
function inside of mission service and mission trips.
And this mindset of you get in your car, you go somewhere and
that's where you're on a missionfield.
But yet we struggle a lot of times to really connect them to
their local school, to local soup kitchens and organizations
that need that one need people here.

(21:26):
And we're in smaller towns and so there's not a lot of people
coming from other areas to come serve and be here.
So we're we're almost at times neglecting the opportunities we
have right in our back door and the huge need that is there so
that we can ramp up 51 weeks a year.
We're so excited to go serve forone week.
Well, we do the same thing with adults as well.

(21:48):
Totally. I don't disagree at all.
I I think that's a hard. Sometimes your mission trip is
walking into the copy room or tothe water cooler.
Yeah. And that fourth be well, I get
I'll slide that in there is is provide.
So that's, you know, giving to organizations that reach the
campus, just like you would needa missionary organization, but

(22:10):
especially you want a student when they start seeing
themselves as missionaries and and they can make a difference
to their in their schools foughtcast a vision for them and then
follow where God's leading them.If they say, I think we could
share the gospel if we did X or if I had X, then provide that
for them, provide food for them to gather kids together, help

(22:30):
them feed the sports teams and share the testimonies of sports.
You know when you're feeding them.
I had a several students or two students from Sullivan East High
School several years ago that they were seniors and they want
to give a Bible and a gospel DVDto every student, every senior.
And it was a pretty big class, about 200 kids, 300 kids,

(22:53):
something like that. And it was about 10 or $15 a
student to do that, what they want to do.
And the local churches got behind them and supplied all the
money they needed for that. So every kid, when they
graduate, they got those. Yeah, that's cool.
But when the churches get behindand provide.
So just like a missionary, you're going to pray over your
missionaries you're sending out for those one week trips or
those, you know, career missionaries overseas, you're

(23:14):
going to promote them. You're going to talk about them
in your church, hopefully and let everybody know these are the
missionaries we support. You're going to to participate
with them. Sometimes some churches will
even go visit a missionary. You're going to supply their
supplies to go there and then providing is to is to give or
financially do whatever you can to make sure those missionaries
are successful. Do that for our students and you

(23:38):
will see a tremendous impact when this kids start realizing
that, hey, I've got a heart for my friends and my church has my
back to make me successful. They will have the boldness in
the the ability to go do what they need to do.
Do you see those characteristicstransitioning over into
adulthood? So when the students who are

(23:59):
involved in first priority in their schools, that now they're
in a factory, they're in an office complex, they're in a
secular workplace, that those same principles, those same
characteristics are serving themas adults as well.
Yes, I, I know we, we had 137 salvations that we know of last

(24:19):
year 10,000, just over 10,000 nationwide, 137 were here
locally. Well, those who excite me, what
excites me more is that we're students are learning to share
the gospel themselves and becoming bold with their faith
and they are becoming evangelistfor the rest of their lives.
If a student realizes, hey, I can just share.
I can live my life and give hopefor why I have the hope.

(24:43):
And students respond. People respond to that.
They'll have that same mindset the rest of their lives.
And I have story after story. I've been in the long enough to
where I got kids and their kids are now coming to me and saying,
hey, I just did this or I LED a friend of Christ at work, or I'm
now in ministry or I'm a mission.
I'm, you know, supporting a missionary.

(25:03):
I'm going back and do, I'm a teacher now, but I'm sponsoring
a club that, you know, when I was a student.
It's it's really cool to see them living out long term what
they're learning it while they're in high school.
Of course, in the real life, you're a grandparent like to,
you know, you have two kids and now you have, they have kids.
But in ministry life, when you started, you had kids that were

(25:26):
18 a decade later, several of them probably had had kids And
then, you know, 1520 years after, you know, 20 years after
that, some of those like you might almost be a great
grandparent in ministry cycle life.
And and that's a that's a crazy thing like Tony was talking
about a minute ago to see this starting to happen.
Because I think that's the tension is where like you talked

(25:48):
earlier just about we see peopleplay church and when people play
like along with Oh yeah, I'm a believer.
I've got I've got a friend who his child graduated 1015 years
ago and they were in class one day and the teacher was talking
about that basically certain things that would be in
Scripture and that this teacher referenced the Bible said that's

(26:09):
this isn't this just isn't true.And all the all the guys that
were in the room, guys and girlswho were in the room that were
actually doing like going against scripture stood up to
defend the Bible because it's like I've grown up in church.
This has to be right now. I'm not going to obey any of it,
but I'm going to stand up. And I think that's been the
tension. And so the beauty of what I love

(26:30):
hearing you say is we're seeing kids that understand that this
is more than just walking in on a Sunday morning, showing up on
a Wednesday night. This is more than just going to
camp or heading on a mission trip.
It's it's, it's a daily sacrifice, dying to self
following Jesus. And there's a ton of mess in
that. And we all know that and we're
thankful for grace, but it's really something you're seeing

(26:53):
real life change happen inside of the the relationships that
you've been able to help cultivate over the last 30
years. Yes, yeah.
The I tell people the worst gospel presentation I ever
heard. It was two 7th grade boys that
took turns reading through the Romans Rd. together.
And it was the most awkward, stuttering as they talk, you
know, getting the wrong words. And when they would sit, when

(27:15):
they were finished, they would, you know, one would stand up,
read one verse, another stand up, read another verse.
And when it was finished, they said, now that's what you know,
this means to me to draw quick, maybe 2 sentences what God done
for them. And they said, we want you to
know that too. And they sat down, they handed
out the response we had to use. We use response cards so
everybody in the room has a chance to respond to the gospel.

(27:36):
And I've sat down with him afterit was finished.
And I said, boys had what? How was that?
They would, That was terrible. So yeah, that was pretty bad.
The worst public speaking thing I've ever heard of.
And I said, but listen though, watch this.
And I laid down those cards in front of them.
Two of their friends gave their life to Christ and I was able to
tell those boys it has nothing to do with you and I.
Yeah. It is God's Word in the Holy

(27:56):
Spirit that makes a difference. All we have to do is be
obedient. Those two boys were just
shocked, first of all, and then they were really encouraged and
they became regular leaders and speakers at the club.
At that point, when they realized it wasn't just it's not
me being the best salesman or the best argument, it's Jesus
working through me. That's what really I think most,

(28:18):
I dare to say Christians don't even experience.
They don't experience the the life and they bought abundancy.
I think that's what when when Jesus said I came to give them
life, that's the salvation, that's the security.
But he says I don't want them to, you know, I came to have it
abundant. I bring it and that's not
abundant in our mindset is that's money and success and all

(28:40):
that. Win the lottery next week kind
of stuff, yeah. Abundance is of the Holy Spirit
pouring out from you, you know, and, and I think when kids
realize that that's something that they, they can, they trust
in, that's something they'll trust in the rest of their
lives. Robert and I are pretty bad
examples because we've homeschooled our kids.

(29:02):
Yeah. I had one of my sons went back
to public school this year. For his senior year of high
school, he was homeschooled. Last year, Isaac went went back
to public school and my wife andI have been terrified of that.
He he spent the summer working as a counselor at a Christian
camp and last year did online school.

(29:25):
And we saw this incredible transformation in his
personality, just the joy that he had from being out of that
environment. But for his senior year, he
really wanted to go back. So we sent him back.
And, and I know there's been lots of prayer, lots of fear as
he started back this last week. And will we see a change in him

(29:48):
because he's been so excited about his faith and the things
that he's been doing. And now he's into an environment
after spending the entire summerin a church camp.
Where faith is is what you're talking about.
Now he's into a place where faith feels almost unwelcomed.

(30:08):
Faithfulness in those environments has to become your
loudest sermon, I would think. So how do you stay grounded in
your faith when the environment that you're in doesn't affirm
your faith? Just had this discussion at
church the other day. One of the things for me
personally is to understand thisis the world and the Bible is

(30:31):
very clear that this is the way the world is.
You know, one of the verses I'lllean back to is they will call
good things evil and evil thingsgood and celebrate those who do
evil. And that's happening everywhere.
While that should probably discourage a lot of people say,
wait a minute. This Bible says this is the way
things are and, and this is where we can make a difference.

(30:51):
This is why we are called to this to this world in this in
this culture that we're in. So it's not a surprise to God.
That's that's one comforting thing.
The other is to stay God, stay grounded in God.
When it would be like I'm going to be an athlete, I'm going to
eat, I'm going to carve up before I go.

(31:13):
I'm not going to have food whileI'm running the race, but I've
carved up ahead of time you so so I'll have what I need to
sustain through that. And when I'm through running the
race, I need to go eat again. So to, to be fed when you can be
fed to take your Sabbaths and, and be, you know, and be close
to God, you can be then when youget out in the world, you know,
you have that energy you're filled up to hopefully pour out

(31:36):
into others or, or to take the bullets and the, and the arrows
from the enemy while you're there.
So that'd be the two things I would really, I really lean on.
It's just knowing that this is the way God's, it's not a
surprise to God. This is the way the world is.
And actually, we're actually more impactful when we live out
Christ in the midst of the evil than we are in midst of average

(31:57):
stuff. And the other thing is, just
when I do have the chance to fill up with Christ, I do that
much as I can. So I don't need to worry about
my son being tackled by a hall monitor for sharing the gospel
in his school. No, not as long as he's not
interrupting class. OK.
And you and you got to know. You also have to know Christ,
too. You have to know and trust him.
I had a pastor do this to me. Tony, you're wearing a wedding

(32:19):
ring. I don't know if I've met your
wife, but you could tell me all the things about her and I could
sit here and go. I don't.
I don't. I've never seen her and I don't
think she exists. And if I had a good enough
argument, I might be able to convince you that your wife
doesn't exist except you know her intimately and you know her
personally. And I believe a lot of kids, a
lot of adults even, have never known God intimately and

(32:41):
personally. And so when they go off to
college, since a high schooler goes off to college who's only
known God in stories and a Prince of the professor gets
them and says I don't believe God exists, they may fall for
that lie. They may fall for that because
they don't know God personally. He's nobody's ever convinced me.
I don't have a wife. But if you're not walking with

(33:02):
Christ to make a convince you, there is no such thing.
Possibly if you don't know Him. Yeah, I mean, it's I'm, I'm
preaching at a friend's church this weekend.
He's on a sabbatical and he gaveme the the spiritual discipline
of journaling to to preach on and you're welcome.
We and my wife does. She's got a five year journal.

(33:25):
And so it's pretty small portionof the page is divided up into
five even segments. And so it's designed each year
to come in. And and we were talking about
this just before the show beforeyou got here.
And, and, and, and it's one of these things where she'll come
to me all the time ago, two years ago, we were sitting right
here, this health struggle, thisjob thing, this life thing,

(33:47):
going through this with family, this stress, this tension, this
joy, this whatever it was. Here's where we were this time
last year. And now here's where we are
today. And I think that it's so many
times we forget, you know, when the Israelites set the stones,
that kind of these markers to remind themselves of God's
faithfulness as they wandered around like, oh, there's those
markers again. Like these, these moments and

(34:09):
spaces, we just forget how good God has been.
And if, like you said, if we aren't prepared and we don't
know, we can't step in. And so kind of in that space as
we let's, let's say this, that students are, are feeling
themselves up adults as well. This is really a, you know,
outside of the school part. You can't be 40 and, and go
attend high school. You can work there if you want,

(34:31):
but you can't attend. But it like when, when just even
reflecting on Tony's son here, we know he can't stand up in the
middle of class on his desk and,you know, have a, you know, oh,
captain, my captain kind of moment here.
But like, when, when do studentskind of start to discern when to

(34:51):
speak up and, and when to just simply live a life that's
faithful inside of these momentswhen they're walking the
hallways at their school or sporting events or just
different moments when they're at the mall or whatever with
their friends? Well, we live in a culture that
is more and more saying you haveto leave your faith privately.

(35:12):
It can't be out in the public, right?
Whatever you do inside your church walls is fine, but don't
bring that out in the public setting.
I think what every Christian needs to do and we'll just focus
on students is you need to live your faith out in the sense of
speak it out and any chance you get.
We had a student that was given a assignment in history to write

(35:35):
on her favorite character from history.
So she chose Paul and she did a whole thing on Paul teacher gave
her a zero told her she can't write, she can't bring in
religion into the public school.So she appealed to the principal
principals. No, it's yeah, yeah, she needs
to. You have every right to do that,
right? It wasn't said, didn't say, you

(35:57):
know, religious people didn't say that.
So she had the right to do that.And so went back to the teacher
and said, teacher, you're going to have to give her a good grade
and the teacher's OK. So Susan, come back in here,
second period, whatever it was. And the girl came back in and
the teacher said, I've given youAB plus now.
But before I give you that paperback, I need to ask you a
question. Do you actually believe this?

(36:20):
And the girl later to Christ right there.
So I'll say that story to say when students start inserting
their faith in their life doesn't have to be bold enough
to be preaching on top of table screaming at people.
It's like when they know that, hey, I've got the right to pray,
ask, you know, pray before I go to a game or kneel to football

(36:41):
field or write a paper on Paul or Jesus.
And they just start letting people around them hinting that
they are believers and then theystart listening and a student
says, I just lost my mother or I'm struggling here.
Then they can speak into those kids.
It's a lot more powerful than than a than a conversation to a

(37:01):
preacher than to preach a message that is to have a
conversation with somebody trying to say got that
backwards. It's it's more powerful to have
a conversation God coming up naturally in the conversation
than it is for you to throw themin there in the middle of
nothing. So I think the when students
start realizing that they need to let people around them know
they're believers, doesn't have to be bold or subtle about it.

(37:24):
And when things come up the door, God opens the door to
speak truth into the through their peers.
I think that. Open the door that opens the
door for the gospel. No, that's so good because, and
and this may be something that gets very niche.
We might be the only people listening that's ever even seen
the movie. But you think about the
Christian films that come out like God's not Dead.
And, and, and the, the vast majority of that is you get this

(37:45):
one kid who stands up and, you know, refuses to deny Christ and
he's in a classroom and he apparently somehow has all these
incredible answers that I don't know that most adults.
And you know, your pastor is oneof the smartest men, maybe the
smartest man I've ever known just to sit across the table
from. And you know, I go, OK, he'd
probably do fine in that moment.But like, you know, you have to

(38:06):
be that level of intelligent to really have these arguments.
And you get this 18 year old kidwho walks in and just destroys
this published professor and everybody's going.
That's what I got to do. I'm just going to be quiet and
sit. And while again, the the movie
is not perfect, the thing we miss sometimes is all the small
stories that were going on of people living out their faith

(38:28):
and living for Jesus in moments where it never hit the public
streets. It never got to something that
was really impactful to an entire classroom or was taken
over local newspapers and TV shows and things like that, that
everybody's going, oh, hey, here's this massive moment of
what's happening. Sometimes it's a quiet moment in
a classroom with a teacher having a conversation about

(38:48):
something and then going, there's no way you can believe
this. And a 1617 year old kid gets a
chance to do something incredible that most of us
would, most of us would go that probably will never happen, but
it does. I mean, I think that's just the
part sometimes that I love that what you're saying and it
encourages me and it's things that I speak into into our kids

(39:08):
of hey, how do you, how do you love God, love others, make
disciples? How do you step into that space
that we're the light of the world and that we're not trying
to be hidden, that we can't, youknow, can't fight the devil in
the dark. Love when Matt Chandler says
that and just kind of living in that space and doing those
things. So.
I love what you just said, Robert, because I think that for

(39:30):
most Christians, there's this balance between feeling like
we're going to be combative or that we're going to be silent or
invisible. And so, Haley, what habits can
our listeners put in place in their life to live out their
faith without becoming either combative or becoming invisible?

(39:53):
Well, I, I was reading over the notes and one of the things that
I don't know if this is this question that sparked that
conversation, but one of the things I think many Christians
need to start doing is to react differently than the world.
Rex, and I'll give you a couple stories about that.
And this is, these are things that I didn't do intentionally.

(40:14):
Just afterwards I realized what what they meant to people is.
I used to work for my family business and I supervised
several people in the logistics loading trucks and, and doing
all that. And I had a situation happened
where this guy got really behindand, and I had to get on to him
a little bit and I said, let's just work to hit you up.

(40:34):
So I started doing the exact same thing with him and, and get
we were set sweating and talkingand we took a break and he said
to me said, I, I really respect you because you're, you're
willing. You're there's nothing you would
ask me to do that you're not willing to do yourself.
But he had expected the bosses in the world to that's below me.

(40:55):
You know, I don't want to do that.
You do your job and, and you know, you do it or else.
And and I realize it's a lot of people at times.
We we do that in all kinds of situations that's below my pay
grade or it is simple as going to a football game at a high
school game and you see some trash on the on the floor or on
the ground to step down there and stoop down there and pick

(41:17):
that up and throw it away. To me, that's the kind of things
that that that most of the worldwould not do that.
But Christians need to respond differently.
I just had recently we went to the cross conference in
Louisville, took a 13 college students up there.
And when we pulled in with the church van, I asked the young

(41:38):
valet. I said I don't want to pay 35
for what it was $50 a night. So is there a place I could park
around here cheaper than that? So, you know, I'm trying to save
the church's money. He goes, Oh yeah, he said, why
don't you just go park in that spot right there?
And he pointed out, I didn't realize he was pointing out one
of the valet spots. So three days later, the bellhop

(41:59):
is bringing our all of our luggage out.
And I point to him where the go to the van is and it's gone.
So the young valet had not told them I'd let him park there.
So they had it towed. Well, the the bailout was
totally at he was absolutely mad.
He just couldn't believe that they would do that to us.
And he went and demanded, you know, all this stuff and got and

(42:21):
the whole time we're just like, OK, well, it happens.
And and he came to us afterwards.
He goes, I cannot believe you'renot yelling and screaming and
and demanding your money back. He said that's what most people
do. Who are you?
And we had to have a conversation that we were here
for the conference and you know,we were modeling Christ and all
that and had a gospel conversation with him all

(42:43):
because we just didn't react theway the world reacts.
And so I think that's one major habit, habit that we all need to
do is we need to learn to react differently than what
everybody's expecting in the world do.
And that's how we stand out. There's not in the I don't do X
because I believe it. You know, it's not those casual
things. It's more of the in the heat of

(43:04):
the moment when we do something that's different than what
people are expecting is when that's yeah, I think you have
the chance to do the the most witnessing the most impact.
I think it's you're obvious juststanding out more and you're
different. What's different about you kind
of thing. So I think that's one habit we
need to learn is to act react differently than normally we

(43:24):
would. Taylor, you were telling us
before we started recording thismorning that you came from one
of your campus meetings this morning where you had two
students that were there. You drove, drove a long distance
to get there and you had two students that were there.
I'm sure that you hear from students all the time that they
feel like they're the only Christians in their school.

(43:44):
They feel like they're alone in this.
I hear that from adults all the time that that they do they need
to get a different job because there are no other people of
faith in their workplace. What if?
Students don't get that option. Yeah.
They can't just go, hey, I'm going to leave this school and
go to another. Especially the closest school to
the one you were at this morningis probably 40 minutes away, if

(44:05):
not further. Yeah.
Yeah. And so, yeah, they can't just
like, hey, I'm going to just go across the street to the other
high school here. Yeah.
And So what advice would you give to someone who feels like
they're the only believer in their workplace and their school
and their community and their family, maybe?
Well, chances are they're probably not.

(44:25):
There's probably other believers, they're just are
feeling the same way they are and they're afraid to say
anything, not speaking up or maybe going along with the
culture and some situations that'd be the first thing.
It's probably not. There are more people out there
that trust in Christ than you than you think.
But the second thing is I would see that as I don't see that's a

(44:46):
negative. I don't see, I don't see that as
anything's a positive. Well, why would God put me here
in the middle of all these lost people?
Were you there for a purpose forsuch a time as this?
Is he going to use the Scripturethere?
But you're there for a reason. And if you are the only one,
you're going to stick out. You should stick out like a sore
thumb. You're going to be you should be
living so differently. And again, not blatantly, but

(45:06):
just in the just in your daily walk with Christ.
And, and the other thing I wouldencourage them is that the you
are bringing the Holy Spirit on the campus with you.
And, and they may not see you, but they will feel the Holy
Spirit. There'll be something different
about you and you will have a witness in the midst of that.
As far as beyond that, just be in prayer, be bold.

(45:30):
Be if you talk more about your faith, you'll probably will find
people that also are not talkingabout their faith.
That's one way to find if there's other believers, you
don't put up posters and say, hey, pull this tab and call this
number. If you're a Christian, but just
interacting with people and other people, realizing that you
are a believer and you have faith in God, other people will
may have the boldness to stand up, say the same thing.

(45:52):
We're going to take a quick break here from our show sponsor
and when we come back with Haleywary from first priority, we are
going to get some personal recommendations from Haley with
Porch Picks. Is your ministry ready to reach
new heights? Higher Ministries is here to
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(46:15):
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sponsor. Visit higherministries.com today
and see how they can help you make a greater impact.
Alright, we are back with Haley Wary from first Priority.
And Haley, we're gonna do one ofour favorite segments of the
show where we're gonna give our listeners a little glimpse into
what you're enjoying in life right now.

(46:36):
This is porch pics. All right folks, pull up a
rocking chair and grab yourself a glass of sweet tea.
It's time for porch picks. This is where we give you our
top recommendations on, well, just about anything.
If we like it, we're picking it.No deep theology here, just good
old fashioned pennies. So sit back, relax, and get
ready for this weeks porch picks.
All right, so Haley, is there anything this can be ATV show

(46:59):
you're watching, a podcast that you're listening to, a book that
you're reading, or it could be agreat sandwich that you had the
other day? Anything at all that just is
occupying your mind and your thoughts right now.
But you had to ask me this. I'm so bad with names of things.
Just finished a book on conscience and I do you know
that I I recommend it to. I've got it right here.
It's on my it's on my Kindle. I just.

(47:21):
Got to he just steal your pick, no?
No, no, no, no, no. I don't know that I have a.
Lot I recommend it to him. He did and it's it's good.
It's all about the how God and the Holy Spirit work through
your conscience and, and especially how you how do you
interact with others who have different levels of conscience
or different things that, you know, if the reference that you

(47:42):
mostly talk about is eating meatsacrificed idols from the
Scripture and how do you interact with somebody who won't
eat, you know, won't touch that when you have the freedom to do
that and vice versa. And that's a really good, it was
a really good book, especially in interacting with talking
about interacting with people ofthat aren't believers.
How do you work with people of different conscience and

(48:03):
different beliefs? It is that's a really
encouraging book. So you'll have to bring up the
reference to yeah. Conscience, what it is, how to
train it, and loving those who differ.
And the names are really put in here.
We're JD Crowley and Andrew David Nacelli.
I'm such a redneck from the South.

(48:23):
It's like saying Nevada, Nevada stuff.
I get the A's, I get the longs and the shorts messed up.
But yeah, the title of the book's just conscious what it
is, how to train it, and loving those who differ.
And we actually talked about that book inside of kind of, I
mean, not so much this segment, but this type of thing of, hey,
what are you watching? And what should be a Christian's
responsibility and what we tune into, how do we respond?

(48:46):
And then how do we very Romans 12 renew our minds to lean in
to, to the ways of Jesus? Haley said, You've got to read
this book. He's like, because the questions
you're asking this guy kind of formed, you know, help me form
some of those things as I was thinking through and just
aligned me, help me align a little more to the things of
Jesus. And so I'm, I'm not very far

(49:07):
into it, but it's, it's a good read for sure.
So that's your pick for the week.
I mean, I would, I would echo that for sure.
We watched a 20/17/2019 movie last night called Nightcrawler
with Jake Gyllenhaal and it's kind of weird.

(49:28):
Renee Russo and not a not a terrible, not terrible flick.
I wouldn't know is my favorite. I have a you know, my oldest son
must be a movie movie composer. So we watch things because of
scores, sometimes more than thenbecause of the stuff.
I mean, Jake was crazy good and stuff, but it was kind of a
unique, weird movie. I don't know that I would pick.

(49:49):
It is something great, but that's something unique.
I watched recently that was kindof weird, didn't end how I
thought it would. And so good plot good, I mean,
good work. So yeah, what about you?
There are different grocery stores in different parts of the
country. How?
On the western part of the country you have Albertson's and
Smith's and Lucky's. Here in this part of the country

(50:11):
we have Food City and Publix. I discovered that maybe the
greatest sub sandwich that you will have comes from the Publix
Deli. Yeah, I know people that will
not go to Subway or any of thoseplaces and they go to Publix.
A phenomenal, so ridiculously good chicken tender sub.

(50:34):
So chicken bacon ranch. My goodness, so good.
And then it was ruined for me when my wife said, do you know
that you just ate like 3600 calories in that sandwich?
And I said that is not true. You are telling tales out of
school. And you went and checked that
out. She did and showed me the Publix

(50:54):
website where it gives the nutritional information right on
their site and one full chicken bacon ranch sub from the Publix
deli has 3700 calories in it. But I so she was lying.
It was actually. More, it was more, but, but
here's The thing is that I took the lettuce, the tomato, the
onion, all of that off. So got got all that off.

(51:15):
So all the bad stuff, all the bad stuff was out.
I just ate the good stuff. Lots of protein there.
I'm still diving through the thebook that I talked about last
week, the extreme ownership withJocko Willich and Leif Babin.
Very much enjoying that more thesecond time through than the
first time through. Like I was talking about some
last week. But yeah, that's about, that's

(51:36):
about what I've got for my picks.
Haven't really watched anything this week.
There's a podcast I listen to onin the Ringer Network and, and
typically this is like they justgo in and they talk through just
movies and they'll kind of do deep dives on summer things and
stuff like that. And they are off the show.
The main hosts are off the show for like 4 weeks while they're

(51:58):
out travelling and watching filmfestivals all over the world
literally. But they have a guy that's come
in and yesterday with the first episode popped up that they
weren't on the show. And he started like 2001 and he
starts kind of talking about George W Bush and he's like, he
just says weird things and he does this.

(52:20):
And he said, I so I had a chanceto interview him through e-mail
and I was like, everybody else is like all these big, you know,
big, you know, what's your stance on this or that?
And he said, I said, what's yourfavorite movie?
Is it kind of a softball question?
I got a softball answer back. He said Austin Powers.
And he said, and honestly, I started thinking it's like they
have the same kind of like they both kind of leaders that

(52:41):
verbally and articulating sometimes don't have the best
way of going about stuff. But then he's like, here's what
was happening in this season, Here's who was becoming
president, Very controversial election.
And in 2001, Bring it on, the cheerleading movie and Donnie
Darko, another Jake Gyllenhaal movie, actually both came out
that year. And they kind of sit in these

(53:02):
opposite spectrums of what the year represented.
And he start, he's doing this hour long, what are they called
when people like just talk and they're playing music and kind
of like the Mars Hill podcast that more documentary type
things. And so he's going to unpack
these movies and work like pieceby piece through these two films

(53:24):
and how culture impacted them and how they impact.
Journalistic. Thank you, journalistic.
And so he's coming from that approach, but I'm super excited.
Like I was kind of bummed when he started talking to this is
going to be stupid and I and I gave it enough time to go.
This is actually going to be like, I'm going to hate when
he's gone and the other two people are back.
Like it is going to be really just a deep dive on on those two

(53:48):
movies and how that impacted culture because you know how
much I love that conversation. So I'm pretty pumped about that.
That's one thing that was uniquethat popped up in my life just
yesterday. I just watched a video series
called a miniseries on Netflix called Adolescence and it's a
little rough language wise but it's about a young boy who

(54:09):
parents thought everything was fine ends up killing a killing
somebody somebody. Buller alert.
Yeah, don't give it away becauseI have one more episode left.
You know, that happens in the very first 3 minutes of the
movie or three minutes of the show.
But it's all about the things that our adolescents, our kids
are going through that or just leading them down the wrong
paths underneath our, you know, underneath our radar.

(54:31):
And that was very powerful. You get used to the British
accents in it, but it's really good.
Yeah, I forgot that. My wife and I started that this
weekend, this week, and I think there's 4 episodes of it.
We've watched the first 3. I loved the 1st 45 minutes of
the show and then the last five minutes of the first episode

(54:51):
where some things are revealed. It got really dark for me and
I've struggled through the rest of it.
It's really heavy. It is really heavy.
And last episode is the parents and the impact on the family.
And it's it's very, it starts off why are they going this way?
And by the time it's over, you're like, oh, they're really
showing from the parents perspective.

(55:11):
And, you know, and talking to really to parents and leaders of
students, it's it's something that we talk about those things.
I'll say this like this show, like all of us have probably
been heavily influenced by Walt Mueller and his, you know, it's
the center of the CPYU Center for parent youth understanding.
And he did a podcast on that, that show that that Melissa was

(55:36):
just like Robert. That was incredible because I, I
saw it and I was like, Hey, you may want to like she's seen the
show. I haven't, and shows like that
are hard. I go back, I don't think it's
the same. We talked about this before, so
we won't spend a ton of time here, but it's the same
graphicness. This might be a good transition
even, but like the same graphic,it's not the same graphic level.
I don't think of 13 Reasons Why and some things like that.

(55:59):
Both of those shows, of course, Adolescence and 13 Reasons Why
are much heavier shows than you know, what's the the OC9O21-O
throughout the years of these shows that are these teen driven
geared well, really they're shows that are probably geared
more to college age and up, but teenagers really get into them
and I just that's sometimes I think we create this stuff and

(56:22):
always kind of go why are we getit's like Criminal Minds.
Why are we giving people who aremaybe on the verge of being a
little crazy anyway, more ways to be crazy?
And they don't even have to think about it.
We're just giving them thirteen seasons of a show that they can
now figure out 100 different ways to be, you know, a menace
to society. And I feel the same way
sometimes with teenagers. It's like, OK, that 13 Reasons

(56:44):
Why we never got through the last season of that.
But the first couple of seasons were really hard to watch.
And we actually watched it in the beginning before they had
taken out the original suicide scene.
And they got so much pushback. They went in and recut the movie
or recut the show on one particular episode.
But it's just like, why are we giving teenagers more and more

(57:05):
ideas of how to hurt themselves or how to not really navigate
life well with all the other stuff?
But. Any so first thing I was almost
an extra in an episode of the OCright that up almost an extra
California here we come back to where we started from.
Second I was I actually told my wife Amanda that because we

(57:29):
haven't watched the final episode that I was hoping that
there was going to be some sort of redemption in the show.
And now, judging by your twos reaction, the fact that Haley
sitting here nodding his head atme shaking no, I don't even know
that I want to watch the final episode because I don't know
that there's going to be any redemption in it.
But we'll see and we'll talk about that next week on the

(57:49):
pulpit and porch maybe for porchpicks as we as I wrap that up,
hopefully sometime this week. But Haley, I do a lot of work
with churches and church leaders.
And one of the big things that is just an epidemic right now is
student ministry within the church, youth ministry, that
I've got 3 churches right now that would hire a full time or

(58:12):
almost full time youth pastor yesterday if we could find
anybody. We can't find anyone who wants
to do it. And when they do, they're having
a hard time. But I've had a lot of
conversations with church leaders on saying that we feel
like our church is struggling because we don't have a great
student ministry program. And so parents that are looking

(58:32):
for some place for their middle school or high school to go,
they're going to go to a church that does have something.
They're not coming to us becausewe've been trying to hire
someone for three years and can't find anyone.
And one of my big suggestions has been there are professionals
out there that all they do is student ministry, First
Priority, Young Life, FCA, you've got these para church

(58:54):
organizations that this is all they do and they do it with
excellence. Why not partner with them?
And it's, it's as if you've suggested some heresy to them to
partner with a para church ministry to, to serve their
students within their church. Why do you think that so many

(59:14):
churches and church leaders are hesitant to get involved in
public parachurch youth ministryand campus ministries?
Well, one thing I constantly tell youth pastors, one of the
things I do is is mentor, encourage young youth pastors is
to stop worrying about the kids you don't have and pour into the
ones you do have. I would in 30 something years of

(59:35):
youth ministry, I'd much rather have 10 kids that are world
changing disciples for Christ and are being poured in every
day then 150. I had that.
I don't know where they are now,right.
So I think that's one thing is we don't when you start worrying
about the big numbers and reallymake the ones that we have life
change the world changers because they're the ones that
will bring in the numbers. It's not it's not a fancy youth

(59:58):
pastor and a big thing that kidsdon't fall for that anymore.
But what they do, what they willdo is they'll follow a friend to
church, especially when it's living out legitimately so.
On top of that, so why are they hesitant to get involved?
In my experience, there's a couple of couple of main ones is
1. They're too busy with what they
got going on there themselves that they're the the youth

(01:00:19):
pastor pastors overwhelmed just trying to keep up with the
demand within his own congregational wall.
So I think the expectation to expectations are I've got to
build this ministry to this size.
I've got to do these X number ofthings.
One of the things I really irritated with about a lot of
youth pastor expectations is they have to be at everything.

(01:00:41):
They have to be at the senior. They have to go visit the
seniors in the not the high school seniors, but they, you
know, seniors in the retirement homes.
They have to go to every funeral, they have to go to
every wedding. But no, it's not.
They're here to focus on kids, so they just, they're
overwhelmed with the expectations the churches put on
them. They don't have time to go out.
The other is, I think they don'trealize, especially the large of

(01:01:03):
the church, they don't realize that they can be benefited by
others. There's something that other
churches have that they don't. They can learn and grow from
them and if they really have everything, then they could be a
support to these other churches,these smaller churches.
We do have a lot of small country churches.
It's actually easier to get churches to work together in the

(01:01:23):
small communities because the small churches realize they
can't do it on their own and they have to work with other
people. And they, they see that quickly
and they'll jump right in. And we even have a few churches
that don't have kids at all in their youth ministry, or they
have one or two, but they consider first priority their
way of reaching a generation of kids.
And hopefully, and I, we have, we have several churches that

(01:01:46):
will testify their clubs. They're they're not their clubs
with their youth groups have grown since they've been engaged
in first party teaching their friends or their kids lead their
friends to Christ. So that would be the thing.
There's one, is just too much expectation and too overwhelmed
within their own walls. And two, they don't really see
the benefit of working together because they don't think there's
anything else, anybody else to offer them.

(01:02:08):
I think so many churches struggle to understand that the
mission doesn't start when people walk through our doors,
but it starts when we walk out of our doors.
I mean, it's a very, you know, Notre Dame play like a champion
of the day, smacking the sun things you go out, they don't
say sitting here and think like a champion like and then

(01:02:31):
hopefully win the game. Like if we don't go out there, I
mean, you know, hopefully we win.
Let's all stay in here and what we know we've rallied together.
Let's do this. It's go out there and play like
a champion of the day. I'll give my all for the
Tennessee balls. I mean, however you say that,
that one, I have a hard time saying I don't even want to
remember it, But you know, it's,it's, but that whole mentality
of, yeah, it's, it's a go and, and preach the gospel, go and

(01:02:57):
make disciples, not a, you know,hope they show up.
And I think that's the beautifulthing.
And look, all three of us know the value of the local church.
We we all serve, work in like minister in local churches.
And and so we we understand the value there and God has a plan

(01:03:18):
that the local church is accomplishing, but it it's not
it's it's, but we are called to come together for the equipping
of the Saints to go and do the work of the ministry.
And I think that's the thing that first priority just to end
this conversation. We would also there's other
organizations, other people doing well, that's something
first priority is done is done beautifully.
And and I don't know, this mightnot be like, I don't know if

(01:03:41):
this question fits well, like, but what's attention, Haley,
that you're seeing? Because one of the things I love
about first priority is that your goal is like the sea inside
of epic is to connect kids back to a local church.
You you, because you know that at the end of the day, what's
happening in first priority is good, but it's probably not a a

(01:04:05):
complete discipleship process that helps kids really start to
walk through the things of Jesusand have someone who can come
alongside them couple times a week and be a part be a small
group leader, someone who's journeyed some faith this down
the road a little bit. What some of the tensions that
you see in helping connect kids to local churches or and then

(01:04:27):
maybe a second part of that is what could local churches do to
be more prepared to receive middle school and high school
students as they come to know Jesus or become more at least
faith interested, interested in a faith journey, and they want
to give church a try as a way tokind of grow in that.
What's a couple things you're seeing in both of those areas?

(01:04:49):
Well, I think, I think churches that are getting away from the
big flashy entertainment type. It used to be whoever had the
biggest, flashiest Wednesday night got all the kids.
But I don't think kids are falling for the big flashy
things anymore. They actually want some meat.
So I really encourage churches to teach their kids theology.

(01:05:10):
Don't teach them. Don't even do topical stuff like
you know. 6 steps to having a better dating relationship.
Stuff like that. Just teach them theology.
They can handle it. We don't challenge our kids
enough theologically for them tounderstand.
We don't think they can understand the deeper things.
And it's like, no, I mean, we have faith of a child.

(01:05:30):
A child can understand the depthof God's love.
So teach some theology and be serious with them.
And because there are these kidsare hungry for something that's
real. This whole generation is looking
for something that's real because they've seen the faith
of their what what they would consider faith of their families
and the churches around them in the in society and everything,

(01:05:51):
the government, everything's failing them and they're looking
for something real. So that'd be the first thing is,
is just start treating them likelittle theology theologians to
be a seminary there. You know, if there's AI don't
say para church, not para churchA and I'm not going to name it
my name. But there is a non Christian
Church that is really big on teaching theology to their young

(01:06:14):
people. And if you ever interact with
the young people, they will, they know that bad theology up
and down and they believe it 100%.
But we don't teach as a Christian Church.
We don't really think our kids can handle that kind of stuff
and they can. So that's attention there
because they don't want to go tosomething fluffy.
They want to do something real. And another, another thing I

(01:06:35):
think we, we are concerned aboutis that, and I see it a lot is
that because you're not in my denomination, I don't want
those. I don't want kids going to your,
you teach things differently. And we have to have a as first
priority. Our mindset is first of all, if
a friendly, if a kid leads a friend to Christ, where they're
going to go to church, probably where that kid goes to church

(01:06:56):
most likely. And then we have to trust in
Holy Spirit to take that studentto the church that they're
supposed to be in, whether they teach them to dunk them or
sprinkle them or speak in tongues or be silent church, you
know, it's we just have to trustas long we we trust in who Jesus
is and believe in the gospel, I think it's all we really need to

(01:07:18):
do. But get out of the competition
mindset and just be considerate,everybody, the body, Christ, and
not our little private little K's, I guess instead of the big
capital Kingdom. Yeah, that's two mindsets I
think are keeping kids out of youth groups right now in
churches. Now that's a really good that's
that's really good thoughts and it's challenging to me.

(01:07:39):
I know like we're looking we're this this season in student
ministry at at the church that I'm leading in right now.
We're we're working through somespiritual disciplines.
How do kids take these parts of their, their faith that how do
they develop and strengthen these through, you know, prayer,
fasting, Sabbath, just some other disciplines that we're

(01:08:01):
going to work through for this fall.
And so kind of August through December, when we hit Christmas
break, we're going to be spending some time working
through different disciplines and kind of a couple of weeks
till three weeks on each one andjust help, help to navigate, ask
some questions and just really sitting in small circles and,
and trying and talking through those things.
And so I like, I love what you're saying there.

(01:08:22):
It's really good. Alright, we're going to take
another really quick break and when we come back, we're going
to put Haley through the ringer with what has quickly become
some of our listeners favorite segment of the show, Truth or
trash? Higher Ministries is passionate
about helping churches thrive Byequipping leaders like you.
With their expert coaching, practical resources, and
strategic support, they'll help you overcome challenges that

(01:08:44):
make a lasting impact in your community.
We're grateful for their sponsorship of our podcast.
Learn more at higherministries.com.
All right, so Haley, this is truth or trash.
You can't handle the truth. I'm trash.
Where we're going to throw out some crazy situations for you
and you just simply tell us whether it is total truth or
absolute trash. There is 0 theological value to

(01:09:08):
this segment of our show. It's just pure chaos.
You ready for this? So you're going to give the
answer when it's over? There is no correct answer, it's
all on. You we don't need to use, it's
your. It's your answer.
It was something like, did this actually happen?
No, no, no. I don't know.
Too crazy. OK.
If your dog has a social media account, you've gone too far.
Truth. You can't handle the truth.

(01:09:31):
Air fryers are just microwaves with a superiority complex.
False or what is it truth? Trash.
Trash. I'm sorry.
Crocs are the mullet of footwear.
True. You can't handle.
The truth? If you're still using AOL
e-mail, you're probably also faxing things.
True. You can't handle the truth.

(01:09:53):
Adults who drink milk with dinner are unwell.
False or trash? Sorry, I got to get the trash.
Christian clubs and public schools are only as strong as
the pizza budget. Trash I'm.
Trash. Hallmark movies are just mad
libs with snow. Mad Libs with snow it's.

(01:10:14):
They're all the exact same thing.
Hallmark movies are trash. Sorry, no, I shouldn't say that
it would be true. Agreement with you.
You can't. Handle the truth.
No one has ever actually finished a chapstick.
True. You can't handle the truth.
Trash. I finished one just last week.
Did you really? I should have brought it in.
I finish every one of mine unless I lose it.

(01:10:35):
Unless. I lose Most people lose them
before they get to. That's the truth right there.
If you don't wave when someone lets you merge in, you deserve
bad Wi-Fi forever. True.
You can't handle the truth. I'm in complete agreement with
I. Grew up in a country you waved
everybody so. Every group text has at least
one person who clearly shouldn'tbe in it.

(01:10:56):
Not true. You can't handle the truth.
If a church doesn't support local schools, it doesn't
understand its mission field. True.
You can't handle the truth. If you can lead a student
ministry, you can survive The Hunger Games.
Trash. And that is truth or trash.

(01:11:16):
So you said AOL, did you all seethat they are officially
stopping they're they're stopping their AOL like the dial
up is? AOL.
Apparently it's out there in some spectrum and they're
shutting it down officially now that you know.
You've got that's one of my favorite when they talk about
difference in generation. So what is this sound?

(01:11:38):
And they all the old people go Oh, and all those kids are like.
In the world. Haley I've LED a para church
ministry for almost 20 years. Robert has lots of experience in
ministry and para church ministry.
It is tough. It's it's hard.
You have a lot of different roles, a lot of different hats
that you have to play. What keeps you going when things

(01:11:59):
get tough? I have a great wife.
She keeps me going just in my, and I've got 3 grand will, I'm
on grandparent #3 grandchild #3 call.
I think it's going to be Friday.They're going to do so.
So family would be the number one thing.
I, I, I for years and years, I fit my family into my ministry.

(01:12:22):
Now I'm fitting my ministry intomy family because it's become a
very, very powerful thing to me.That's families.
And in my church, one of the, one of the things that a lot of
pair church people, I think get into trouble is that becomes
their church And they're so theyspend so much time and energy on
that. They forget that they need to be
a part of a church so they can go and rest and be cared for and

(01:12:44):
be held accountable. So I'm very protective of my
Sunday mornings at church at a lot of first party people go
visit churches on Sunday. I don't do that.
I'm I'm with my wife Sunday withmy, with my small group.
And I want to be, I want to havea chance to be fed.
So that's very important. And the other thing is my
calling. I mean, it's I'm called to do

(01:13:04):
this and without that calling I'd be in trouble.
I wouldn't be able to do what I'll do and I'd burn out very
quickly. So you always have to really
rely back on your calling. Actually was the the student
pastor at Haley's church that heattends now for a for a season
and in that season and it this may have changed Now, I know
there's been a couple of times since I left that you've done

(01:13:25):
some, some interims and things like that and maybe even use
like a three month interim when I was there for two and a half,
3 1/2 years I was there. I just went blank.
But like you were like you were there like Sunday mornings and
side of Sunday school, like you had a you had a Sunday school
small group, community group class you were in then.

(01:13:46):
But Wednesday nights you were there, you guys were plugged in.
You were helping you and Kelly both help him provide food and
just investing. I mean, your kids, you know,
Brock was in the student ministry.
And but like, that's something that I definitely, like I said
for 20 years now, I can look back at, at your life and go,
yeah, that's a, that's a, a value and a step that I saw

(01:14:08):
then. And it's something that I still
see now just in all the communication and connection we
in social media stuff and posts that I see, you've really valued
that. And like I said, all of us
having LED in that space, havinga, a faith community that you
can connect to is such a big deal.
And I've seen that be a huge part of your life.
My first eight or nine years of youth pastor as a volunteer.

(01:14:32):
So I'm working 60 hours a week doing that.
Of course, you know, youth ministry is not a part time
ministry is not part time at all.
And I didn't go to church. I didn't go to, I mean, I was
working at the whole time. Then we moved here to be an
impaired church and I was able to go to church for the first
time in being in ministry. It was very quick.
Glad I learned a small value of a small group because the 1st 10

(01:14:54):
years of my marriage, if something happened to me, my
parents might have helped out mywife, right?
That they love her, but there would've been nobody to take
care of her. But then I became a member of
community group was that they were concerned about me and my
family. If something never happened to
me, they take care of me and my wife and my children.
And it was just really, I just realized the value of that, that

(01:15:14):
you have to be connected beyond just a Sunday school or of a
church service, a tender, you have to be connected to a body
of believers that cares for you.It's very vital.
And you've got several 100 listeners from around the
country that are listening to this or will listen to this.
What would you like to say to them?
If you had them sitting in frontof you, what would you say?

(01:15:37):
Not sure how you listen to Robert all the time.
It's. Only it's only once a week for
like an only once a week, Yeah, so.
No, my, my condolences. I just what I have to say for
him. Reach out to help kids, be
missionaries, help kids live their faith out.

(01:16:00):
Don't consider them the church. One of the things I hate is
they're the Church of the future.
No, they're the Church of the day.
I've seen kindergarteners preachthe gospel to their whole class
before and so treat students with respect and treat them like
they're adults in their faith and challenge them in their
faith. The other thing I would say is

(01:16:24):
thank you for praying for and supporting ministries like First
Priority. That and supporting your church,
because none of these things happen without people behind the
scenes that are praying and promoting and providing all
those things we mentioned earlier.
And I'm sure that if you're listening to podcasts like this,
you're probably engaged in a church and probably have a heart
for ministry. And so thank you for that.

(01:16:47):
If a listener hears this and wants to know more about you,
wants to know more about first Pi priority, wants to support
the ministry that you're doing, how can they do that all?
Right. So our website is first priority
dot club slash NETN for Northeast Tennessee.
And we'll put that in the show notes.
And then all of our social mediais first priority NETN that's

(01:17:11):
Facebook, Instagram, all that donot have a TikTok.
We don't do that because I don'thave the time to do videos and
all that and I can't dance anyway.
So no TikTok videos. And you said you're all over the
country. If you're not in Northeast
Tennessee, I'll get you connected to somewhere or
somebody that can help you and do campus ministry somewhere.
Love you man. It's been so good.

(01:17:32):
I love, love what ministry is doing at what what the ministry
you're in is doing, how it's impacting our community and the
bigger part of the world even and love your family.
It's just been been a blast. Thanks for taking some time of
doing this today. Thanks for having me, it's been
fun. Yeah, Haley, thank you so much
for your time. This is an incredible discussion
and I hope that our listeners get a lot out of it.

(01:17:52):
That is all the time that we have for this edition of the
Pulpit Import Podcast. Want to remind you wherever
you're at, wherever you're listening, that we're not all
called to do the ministry in thesame space, but we are all
called to be faithful in the space that we're in.
And so wherever you're at, wherever you're listening,
wherever you're heading to, you're called to be there.
And there is a mission field that is waiting for you there.

(01:18:14):
Your everyday places are someoneelse's mission field.
And don't ever forget that. We do want to thank you for
listening. Thank Haley Wary at First
Priority of Northeast Tennessee for joining us on this edition
of The Porch. And we want to encourage you to
reach out to him to support him and his ministry and what he's
doing. And you can find all of that
information that he just said inthe show notes.

(01:18:35):
While you're at it, why don't you go ahead and like the Pulpit
and Porch podcast. Subscribe to our podcast and
share it with all of your friends around the world so they
can hear Haley's story in the that he's doing, as well as so
much from our other guests. Thanks for joining us again, and
we'll talk to you again next week here on the Porch.

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