Not Quit — Even When It Hurts. A Conversation with Jodi Ramey (Part 2)

This week on The Pulpit & Porch, we pick up right where we left off with Jodi Ramey, and this time, her sister Bethany Wilson pulls up a chair to join the conversation.

If Part One was the story, Part Two is the soul. At the heart of their story is a simple family phrase,“Not quit.”

More than a motto, “not quit” has become their family’s reminder that the story isn’t over yet. Whether you’re fighting through a setback, waiting on an answered prayer, or just trying to hang on, this episode will remind you that God isn’t finished with you either.

This episode is for anyone who’s tired, waiting, or wondering if God’s still working. Because sometimes the greatest act of faith is just taking one more step forward.

So grab your sweet tea, settle into the porch swing, and join us for an honest, hope-filled conversation about perseverance, perspective, and the power of “not quit.”

Listen now on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen.

#ThePulpitAndPorch #Faith #Hope #Perseverance #Family #ChristianPodcast #Storytelling #KeepGoing #NotQuite #FaithInAction #Encouragement

Mentioned in the Episode:

Song - "The Mighty Name of Jesus" - The Belonging Co.

Listen Here

Book - The Path of Presence by Paul Bergen

Find Here

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome back to the Pulpit and Porsche podcast.
If you joined us for part one ofour conversation with Jodie
Raimi, you know her story is onethat reaches deep.
It breaks your heart, it inspires your faith, and it
reminds you what true perseverance looks like.
In the second part, we're going to step beyond the story and
into the lessons, the everyday faith, the quiet strength, and

(00:20):
the hard won wisdom that Jodie carries after walking through
unimaginable loss. We'll talk about what it means
to keep believing when life doesn't make sense, how to find
peace in the middle of pain, andhow to see God's grace show up
in the little things. So grab your glass of sweet tea,
pull up a chair and join us on the porch as we continue this
power conversation with Jody Raimi.

(00:43):
Welcome to the pulpit and porch.I'm Tony Maher and with me, as
always, is my friend Robert. Hey everybody, we are so glad
you're here. The pulpit and porch is where we
kick back, put up our feet and have real conversations about
life, faith, growth, and maybe even a little sports and pop
culture. If you're looking for a
perfectly polished sermon, you're probably in the wrong
place. Yeah, around here it's more
about those honest heart to heart conversations.

(01:05):
That's the one you'd have on a front porch with good friends.
Sometimes we stay on track, sometimes we take the scenic
group. And honestly, that's half the
fun, isn't it? We dig into the highs, lows, and
all the in betweens of living out your faith in real life.
Along the way, we may pull up a few extra chairs and invite some
friends under the porch to sharestories and ideas that just may
change the way that you see things.
So whether you're chasing your purpose, building your faith, or

(01:26):
just trying to live a little more fully, pull up a chair,
grab some sweet tea, and join us.
This is the pulpit and porch we got to see waiting for you.

(01:48):
I you know, episodes when they kind of step into a a second
part, it, it's always tough because there's this, there's
this gap. And, and I think the thing
that's in it's that's hard for me with this one is, is the
week, because a lot of times it's people's story and their
story kind of almost has this uplifting.

(02:10):
And I'm not saying yours doesn't, but it's it's not like
like the the bottom right here feels really, really low And and
and I'm I can't imagine. All the redemptions coming
today. Yeah, and and I think sometimes.
That's and the redemptions stillhappening.
Yeah, yeah. And I mean, you know, we're
we're 11 months out from from what happened.

(02:31):
And so I, I just, I said, I saidbefore we started the first
episode that I said before we start the episode that I
probably wouldn't say much and Ididn't say a lot because I, this
story is coming to me like it isall of our listeners, we've sat
down and, and just like just stepped in and I had a little
bit of an outline and I thought,wow, this is going to be like

(02:51):
heavy, but I didn't know what the heavy was going to look
like. And so from from just one person
like I've got 22, my wife and I have 2218 to 17 year old boys.
Not 22 boys, no, you have a 20. 2/22/18 and 17 I feel like I've
said that. Though because I have close to

(03:12):
22 you. Do have close to 22.
I only have three at 2218 and 17.
And thank you. Thanks for being so like
genuinely raw and honest and transparent.
Thanks for for sharing some really, really, really hard
things. Thanks for sharing some hope

(03:33):
that comes. There's not there's not any
comparison. And so I just I've never had to
pray the exact same prayers thatyou've prayed.
I've never had to sit in momentsthat you've done the things that
you've done. I've never had to fight the way

(03:55):
you fought and you are such and I just, I want to go back and
start at four years old about a little girl that just loved
Jesus so much and just work. I mean, just like man, what did
that look like? And, and I know the journey
wasn't what you expected, but you have just like leaned into

(04:17):
the grace and mercy of Jesus, into the arms of the Father.
And I'm just so grateful for yousharing that story.
So we're getting ready to step in and like you said, the
redemption is coming and all thethings are there, but just super
grateful for you and thankful for you taking some time to do
this because it means the world to me just to get to because

(04:39):
it's what we love about this podcast.
And it's really an intentional shift we started several months
ago of just people sharing theirstories because that's really
where this matters. It is and we are welcoming
someone new onto the porch with us this week.
Jodi's sister, Bethany Wilson has jumped onto the porch with
us, pulled up a rocking chair and she's going to give some

(05:00):
insight, some thoughts into the rest of this story.
So Bethany, First off, welcome onto the porch.
We're glad to have you. Thank you for having me.
I'm glad to be here with Jodi. So you lived this story right
alongside Jodi and Front. Row seat.

(05:21):
During our last episode, you kind of sat by here as emotional
support for her through that. I want to spend just a second
and hear what are your observations as someone who was
you were right there walking this journey right along with
her. First off, how?
What's the age difference between the two of you?
Nine years. Nine.
Yeah. So when I went away to college,

(05:45):
the Lord called me back. And I think part of that calling
was I was a freshman in college,and that season is what started
Jodi and I's friendship. Like different than just growing
up and being sisters. That season started a lifelong
friendship with Jodi and I, and that was one of the reasons why

(06:08):
I believe he called me back. So watching Jodi walk.
Through. All the things that she just
went through on the episode, theonly thing I can compare it to
is when you read the Bible and you hear about all these people
and the struggles that they go through, even though you're
reading it and sometimes you canhave sympathy or empathy for

(06:32):
those stories, they're still disconnected.
They can. The whole story can feel
disconnected. Whereas when I walked in
alongside Jodi and seeing her walk through all of those
trials, I mean, that is literally the Bible walking out

(06:53):
in faith in in front of me. It literally is manifesting the
same presence of Christ and the Holy Spirit.
And what does faith look like? Well, it's walking it out every
single day. And literally I had front row
seats to that happening in frontof me.
So. You saw the gospel lived out

(07:14):
right in front. Of you gospel lived out in front
of me, that's for sure. That's incredible.
Thinking back on the story that you shared with us last week, a
part that that you missed in that story that I think was
pretty significant was the loss of your aunt.
And, and that I know that she had a huge love for Josh and

(07:37):
Josh for her, and she was a hugepart of your guy's life.
And, and that happened all in the midst of everything going on
with your mom and with your kidsand with your health issues and
Craig's health and, and you had that all that was weighing on
all of you as well. Yes, Nancy was Nancy was AI

(08:00):
don't even know. A hero to me in so many ways a
hero of faith to me. She was also very optimistic in
all seasons and all situations, was merciful and gracious to
people. And Nancy and I actually had
children together. Kendall and Abby were six weeks

(08:22):
apart. So Nancy and I went to doctor's
appointments together. Even kind of going further back,
I'm going to interject a quick story about my granddad that I
think will be pretty impactful too.
When my granddad, he died when he was 69, I believe is the

(08:46):
correct age, But so he was youngwhen he passed away, but he was
diagnosed, but before he passed away, he was diagnosed about 4
1/2 years prior to that with multiple myeloma cancer.
And so if you know anything about that, that basically is
making your bones look like Swiss cheese.
In the middle of that, he got what was called an intro virus,

(09:09):
which attacked his muscles and also made his muscles look like
Swiss cheese. And at that point in time, when
he got this intro virus, he was,there were no adults known to
survive the virus. And so he's written up in all
kinds of medical journals and all that as an adult that was

(09:30):
able to survive this virus. But when he was in the hospital
with multiple myeloma cancer andthis virus, he wasn't able to do
anything on his own. He had a trach, he wasn't able
to breathe, move his eyelids. He couldn't do anything.
And so they were continuing to poke and prod and try.
And he had a son that was a surgeon and a son-in-law that

(09:52):
was a doctor. And so they just were constantly
in there working on him. And so they just went to him and
said his name was Roy. They were like, do you want us
to keep working on you or do youwant us to just stop and let
things kind of fall where they may?
And he wrote, he couldn't speak at this time.

(10:12):
He was too weak to even speak. But they gave him a piece of
paper and helped him with a pen and he wrote on a piece of
paper, not quit. And so that really became a
family motto for all of us in the extended in the extended
family. This just became kind of our
mantra that we you just do not quit.

(10:35):
And so I think I latched on to that as a as a child, I was, it
was prior to high school for me.So I was pretty young when when
that occurred and my granddad prior to his passing it.
Now at this point, we'll Fast forward five years.

(10:57):
He lived a great five years, 4 1/2 years.
During that time period, he overcame the virus.
He when he first came out of thehospital, he would start trying
to walk around his driveway. He couldn't even make it around
his driveway. And he would carry, we're
talking about the western steer.He would carry one of these
wooden awkward chairs from the western steer and he would carry

(11:19):
it in his driveway and whenever he got tired, he'd sit down and,
and, and take a breath. Well, then that extended to
you'd see him walking all aroundtown the stronger and stronger
he got. And you know, he would stop
whenever he needed and, and takea break with this crazy chair
that he was lugging around. So he he lived a great life in

(11:39):
that in between stage. But as he's getting ready to to
die from cancer, he's really unsettled and unsure about
dying. And so Nancy came to me and I
was a freshman in high school, and she came to me and said,
let's pray that he has a vision of heaven.

(11:59):
And so for four months, Nancy and I would get together.
We would pray incessantly about Granddad having a vision and
becoming at peace with his passing.
And so it turns out neither Nancy or I were in the room and

(12:19):
he was dying of cancer. He was at home.
They had Hospice brought in. And at this point he was super
weak again. Again, couldn't open and shut
his eyelids. They had to put an ointment in
his eyes to keep his eyes lubricated.
And he just was weak and frail. And when he would speak, he
would whisper. And all of a sudden he's sitting

(12:41):
in this bed and or laying in thebed and he sits up strong all by
himself and starts yelling glory, glory, beautiful gardens,
beautiful gardens, you know, Andhe talks about the colors and
how beautiful everything is. And his son Richard was in the
room and Richard came over and said, dad, what is it?

(13:04):
And he said, I cannot reveal more and laid back down.
But after that moment, he was totally at peace with with
dying. And so clearly he saw some kind
of vision of of heaven. And so that was something that
Nancy and I had prayed together as a freshman in high school.

(13:24):
So again, long before I was going to hit trials, Nancy was
somebody that knew how to pray and knew how to teach me how to
pray. So she was very influential in
my life. And then like I said, Nancy and
I had children the same age. And so Kendall and Abby, Nancy
really wanted twins. That was kind of a goal of hers.

(13:46):
And so she kind of felt like shehad twins with Kendall and Abby.
And so she would take Abby and Kendall on adventures and, and
she really had a love for Josh Abbey and Jenna and, and was
very monumental in my life. So her passing was also quite

(14:07):
shocking to our family because she got, she actually had the
same diagnosis as my mom, stage 4 ovarian cancer, and both of
their cancers had spread and similar, similar ways.
Nancy was diagnosed about a year, year and a half maybe
before my mom and then she passed away after I guess she

(14:33):
had it for about a year and a half before she passed away.
So my timeline's off a little bit there, but something close,
something close in that ballpark, so.
We were on vacation when Amanda,my wife's sister Heather called
and it was a great morning. It was sunny, we were on the

(14:55):
beach and we were packing up. We were getting ready to leave
the next morning to come back home.
And Heather called and I could immediately see my wife's face
change and the words that came out of her mouth.
She said oh God no. And she hung up the phone and
with tears streaming down her face, she looked at me and she

(15:16):
said, something's happening withJosh.
And I was like, Josh who? And she said, Josh Ramey.
And she said, I don't know that Jody can take any more.
And yet you rounded out our lastepisode by saying that next
morning you woke up at 6:00 in the morning and God had spoken

(15:36):
to you. The Holy Spirit had just come
over you. The peace that Scripture
promises us, peace that the world can't give, the peace that
only comes through Christ. And you had a mission.
I had a mission, I had been given an assignment and it was
very clear. Even the analogy, you know,
you'll recall because you were at the funeral that I used an

(15:57):
analogy of a rope and our life being like the like a 50 yard,
50 foot rope. And it's 1 little section.
So, you know, you can just imagine as a listener if 6
inches of this rope taped up with red duct tape and said, you
know, this represents your life on earth.

(16:19):
The whole rope, the whole 50 foot rope represents your life
in this little red section, represents your life on earth.
And we get so consumed and so caught up in the decisions that
only affect this little red part.
And we work and we save and we strive and we do to make sure
that our red part is comfortable.

(16:41):
And really, I wanted my children.
Of course, I want them to do well in the red part, in the red
section, and I want them to be successful and I want them to
have a Kingdom impact. But I'm much more concerned
about the whole rope than I am just this one little red part.
So can I have a little confession for you real quick?

(17:03):
So as I'm sitting there at that service, I've been a pastor for
25 years. I've spoken at at many, many
funerals and memorial services. I've, I've, it's hot to
thousands of people and I'm sitting there at that time.
And it was one of those moments where I was like, give me a
microphone. Give me a microphone.
The place is filled with people who need to hear the hope of

(17:26):
Jesus. And I was sitting, I was
literally like shaking, like, please just give me a, my Lord,
give me a microphone. I, I want to talk to these
people. And then you got up and I'm
like, I don't need a microphone.I don't need a microphone.
She's got it. This is, this is.
I'm good right here. She's got something to say to
me. There's nothing I have to say to
anyone. She has something to say to me.

(17:47):
Well. That's.
Neat. And I'm wondering, where did
that strength come from? So again, it just was the Holy
Spirit. He just, you know, it was
something that obviously had been fostering in me since I was
four years old. And certainly I haven't walked

(18:09):
out this Christian life perfectly, but I really have, I
really have pursued trying to beobedient even in the hard times
and looking for God and pressingin and looking for
opportunities. And you know, in that moment, he
just stepped in, spoke to me, gave me a mission, and I knew

(18:33):
that I was, that I would have anopportunity to speak to people
that may never hear the gospel, that may never give the Lord a
chance, but they loved Josh because again, Josh loved so
well and therefore he was so loved.
And but that was evident at the funeral.

(18:56):
I don't even know how many people came through there.
I think there were close to 1000people that came.
I think there were we handed outlittle books.
We handed out over 500. It was like 550 or something
books that we handed out. And so it certainly brought a
crowd, but I knew it would bringa crowd that I could at least

(19:17):
plant a seed and I could use Josh's life to share the gospel
and to share again. I would have their attention
because they love Josh. And so I was really on a mission
and the Lord clearly gave me that assignment.
And then like I said, he told meI woke up instantly with that
thought of this is what you're to do and that whole rope

(19:40):
analogy. Now, again, I'm a person that
strives for excellence and I'm aperson that likes to think
through what I'm going to say. It's kind of comical that I have
no notes about really what I'm going down this whole podcast
with because I like to think through what I'm saying.
So I did write out, you know, I was afraid emotions may take

(20:01):
over. And so I really wanted to be
more prepared than that. So I wrote out what I wanted to
say and I wanted to make sure. That I was intentional and
purposeful in every word that came out of my mouth that day.
And so that was my goal. How did Craig and the rest of
your family take it when you told them?
Here's what I want to do. They were not surprised and very

(20:23):
supportive. I asked Craig if he wanted a
part. He felt like I had it under
control. You know, he could have.
He would have, but I feel like he just felt like I had it.
And it was the way it worked out.
Now. Abby jumped up and Abby said
that she wanted to say somethingand to share something.
And when I finished writing whatI had to say, I felt like there

(20:48):
was one element that I didn't hit.
And you know, now for the life of me, I can't remember what
that was, but I remember callingAbby and I said, she called,
well, I think she called me and said, Hey, mom, I finished
writing what I'm going to say. And so the one element that I
had left out, Abby addressed. And so it it was clear to me

(21:10):
that the Holy Spirit was workingthrough her as he was working
through me. And so the the point that I
wanted to make, she got to make instead.
And so it was just it all combined really, really well.
And then when we were in the hospital and we were determining

(21:32):
what was happening with Josh, one of Craig's dearest friends
in life is the prison and jail chaplain Danny Thompson.
And he, he had spent, he was thechaplain at the Abington jail.
And so he had spent some qualitytime with Josh.
He had given Josh some quality reading to do.

(21:53):
I've forgotten the book that Josh read.
He read it like 6 times. But it's something like from
Club Meth to Jesus Club, from Club Meth to Jesus.
And Josh read that book six times in Abington.
And so Danny was a big voice in Josh's life at that time in that
season. And, and he had really gotten

(22:15):
to, he had known Josh's whole life, but he also spent some
really quality time. And, and I actually wasn't
uptight about Josh going to jailbecause I knew Danny would have
his ear. And so I felt like again, along
the way, life is a lot about perspective.
And so I could see God's hand woven in, in every detail that

(22:40):
was happening with Josh, with me, with all of us.
You know, just as you weave the whole story together, you can
see God's handiwork in all of it.
But you know, you have to chooseto be open to that and to see it
from that perspective. But anyway, so Danny, while we
were in the hospital, Danny was talking and and so I was like, I

(23:02):
want Danny there. And then we'll, then Abby spoke,
and then I spoke and then we let, and then our pastor Dale,
who has been another just ally that God has placed in our life
shoe. I cannot give enough
appreciation for the way Dale and Jenny pastor and shepherd

(23:27):
people and shepherd people through unremarkable heavy
events. And there's been many a nights
that Craig and I were on the floor in their living room just
crying out in total anguish oversome of these events.
And, and they've just been steady and rock solid and

(23:51):
speaking truth into us over and over and over again.
So we were grateful that Dale also had a role in that in in
his service. Jodie, the statistics tell us
that couples who lose a child over 90% their marriages can't
survive it because of the different ways of processing

(24:14):
grief. You guys not only lost a child,
but you lost a grandchild who was like a child.
You are battling through each ofyour own individual health
issues. You're dealing with the health
issues that your mom and dad areboth facing.
People that have been that rock for you throughout your life

(24:36):
couldn't be there in the way that they would have liked for
you in this darkest, darkest season.
What advice would you give to someone who's listening to this
right now that is walking through their own period of
darkness? I would say, and it particularly
towards marriage, I would say don't quit.
You know, no matter what and Craig and I rarely we have our

(25:01):
same core values are ultimately the same.
So we have the same goal and thesame core beliefs.
But the manner in which we see things is almost always opposite
of course. And the manner in which we would
approach a situation is almost always opposite.
And so, you know, we've been in we're both very strong people.

(25:29):
And so we're both both very strong in our opinions and that
has come to blows on many occasion, but we just don't walk
away. You know, we took divorce was
not in our vocabulary and nor was the hint or threat or you're
not out of this like. And at this point, I feel like,

(25:52):
well, we've got way too much invested.
We used to joke as we were kids that whoever left got to take
the kids. So that kept us both really
connected to the marriage. And there's a lot of a lot of
joke in that. But there's a lot of truth in
that too. And that we're partners and

(26:12):
we've already signed up. And, you know, he would
sometimes come and complain because life didn't.
Craig had very specific ideas for what our retirement was
going to look like, how all thatwas going to play out.
And it has played out very, verydifferently.
And us being knee deep in the trenches with children and
grandchildren and, and all of those roles.

(26:35):
And, you know, Abby's done a remarkable job as in stepping up
through dealing with traumatic grief and yet trying to also
parent her children. And so she is really, Elijah
could have also sent Abby on a very dark path.

(26:58):
And instead, Abby has really stepped up to the plate and in a
whole new way. And she continues to transform
and grow in that season. But sometimes Craig would, you
know, like I said, we're just inthe trenches.
And so he would be frustrated with it.
And I'm like, you're going to have to take it up with the

(27:19):
Lord. This is not, this is not on me,
Craig. We're we're rescuing
generations. Like, no, what we're doing has a
generational impact. And so, you know, I can be very
dogmatic and firm if I believe something is the right thing to
do, whether that is facing my children, standing up to Craig,

(27:44):
standing up to my children, whatever I, you know, if I think
it's the right thing to do, it does it.
What I want, what I have has little to do with the decisions
I make. I actually don't make decisions
on how I feel or what I want to do.
It's irrelevant what I want, what's the right thing to do,
what's the next right thing to do in this situation?

(28:06):
And so if I believe it's right and I believe like the Lord has
confirmed that it's right, you better get on board.
And I don't, I don't mean that quite as strongly, sort of I do,
but not exactly, you know, And so certainly Craig has been a
strength and there are times that, you know, I'm ready to

(28:27):
pitch in that maybe that shouldn't be my responsibility.
And Craig is good at saying, allright, Jodie, let your hand go
of that. You don't be in control of that.
Let Abby take control of that or, you know, whatever the
situation is. And so he's he's been a really
strong voice. And sometimes he, you know,

(28:49):
again, I'm strong. So he has to be strong to say,
yeah, this is the right thing todo, Jody.
And again, if he can convince meit's the right thing, I'm all
in. You know I'm in for whatever the
next right thing is. Jody, a lot of professional
Christians say that real faith, true faith, is the absence of
doubt. And I think that you couldn't

(29:10):
have a more incorrect statement.I think the true faith is
continuing to pursue Jesus, continuing to follow Jesus in
spite of our doubts. That even though I question,
even though I'm angry, even though I can't see what you're
doing, even though I don't get it, even though I maybe don't
even know if my prayers are going any higher than the

(29:31):
ceiling, I'm going to continue to follow you, continue to
pursue you, even though I have no clue where you're leading.
That the doubts show the perseverance of our faith.
That in spite of our doubts, we continue to follow.
You talked about how when you were on the way to the hospital
with Elijah, that you prayed God, I know that you were able.

(29:53):
I know that you have the power here.
And then in the aftermath of that, the way that you had
thoughts creep into your mind that maybe hadn't crept into
your mind for for decades, that you had questions, you had
fears, you had anger that was pointed towards God.
And yet when you took that stageat the funeral, what I think all

(30:17):
of us saw that day was, was faith personified that what
happened there is in that moment, your faith was raw, but
it was inspiring and it was fullof hope.
And really when you came down toit, even though it wobbled, it

(30:41):
was unshakeable. It was unbreakable.
And it was something that that Iknow for me, I walked out of
there saying, I, I wish that that could be broadcast to every
church, that if they could see and understand the strength of
the courage and more importantly, the faith that it
took to do that. I know from sitting there, being

(31:04):
a person, just watching it, how inspiring, how motivating, how
encouraging it was that I would love to hear from your sister
what you saw in Jodi during thattime and subsequently in the the
11 months since then. What have you seen in her?
What do you admire about her, and what lessons has she taught

(31:27):
you? How long do we have on this
podcast? Oh, goodness.
So when she got up on that stage, the, I don't know, 18
hours or so that we were together, I mean, we were

(31:48):
broken. We were broken because our whole
entire family had been praying for restoration and we told.
Josh was yours too. Joshua was everybody's, but he
could just reach anybody. He could.
He could talk to you, the pastor, he could talk to the

(32:09):
crackhead on the street and he could love both the same with no
judgement. So he could just reach people on
a deep level. So I feel like, you know, yes,
Joshua and I were really tight and really close, but I almost
think everybody who knew Joshua.Felt that way, would say the
same thing, yeah. So and.
Anytime you go to a funeral, everyone says that they were the

(32:31):
person's best friend. They were my closest friend, and
with Josh, that was really true.It really was the.
Truth for 1000 people that were there.
And so you just knew like there would be no way that the Lord
could take him because we had been praying for his
restoration. And like Jody said, like we just
knew in the last two months thathe was home, he was restoring

(32:51):
all of these relationships. So we knew that golly, we
believe with our whole entire heart that we were going to see
Josh rise above all this. And when that didn't happen,
that breaks you in a different way than a a normal death or
something that wouldn't that would break you just because not

(33:13):
only did we lose Joshua, but we lost that hope that we would see
that and see the Lord come in this miraculous way.
So when we didn't see that and we were just so sad and really
who let us out of that, that, you know, when you're walking

(33:35):
through grief, each day is a choice on how you're going to
like wake up that next day and how you're going to walk through
this. And Jodie led the charge towards
the light. And seeing her up on that stage,
you could see that God had a plan.

(33:56):
You could start. We could start seeing through
the brokenness that God was not done with Joshua just because
Joshua wasn't living and breathing on this earth, that
Joshua's story was not going to end here.
And I think we saw that when Jody got up on that stage, that
God still is going to use Josh and Joshua's story.

(34:16):
And because Joshua was able to reach the masses, unlike, you
know, people who stay in their lane and have their friends,
Joshua could reach them all. And so, and, and it inspired
Jody. And also, we've been talking a
lot lately in our family of putting yourself in a position

(34:36):
to allow God to talk to you, putting yourself in a position
to allow God to bless you. And in the depths and in the
darkness and in the valley, Jodystill was looking up so that God
could talk to her. And I think a lot of times your
grief can overtake you and you don't want to look up because

(34:58):
you're so sad. But Jody was able to still be
able to look up. And that is what, you know,
sustained her. And then that is contagious.
And that's how God works is thatwhen He blesses 1 and somebody
stands up for it, it will bless the masses.
Seeing that one moment was was pretty incredible because we all

(35:23):
knew. Josh's story doesn't end here.
And what you did in that one moment was incredible.
We've well established that whatyou did in that moment for
probably 35 minutes on a stage in front of 1000 people at your
son's service was a show of strength, perseverance, and
faith that I don't know that I've ever seen.

(35:44):
I think what's even more impressive is what took place
after that. Because anyone, if we really
search ourselves deeply, we can have a momentary spark of, of
strength, of power, of courage. But what you continue to do
after that, after you stepped off the stage where most people
would say, I did what I needed to do.
I said what I needed to say, nowI'm done.

(36:07):
You never stopped. Two days after you buried your
son, two days after you buried your son, our family had some
things going on. And I walk into a hospital room
in Bristol and sitting there before me or the two of you, two
days after you buried your son, two days after you buried your

(36:27):
nephew, you both are sitting in a hospital room caring for
someone else's family in their time of need.
It didn't stop on that stage. All the faith, all the courage,
all the determination that you showed by stepping on that stage
at Josh's service has been amplified in the life that

(36:47):
you've lived off of that stage. And that's something that's
incredibly remarkable and something that I want to dive
into with you for a little bit, that how do you find God in
little things in life? How do you find the strength to
keep going to faith, to keep putting 1 foot in front of the
other? What is it that keeps you going,

(37:09):
that keeps you motivated, that keeps you so hopeful?
Well, I would say in the everyday I can kind of be on the
roller coaster, of course. And I certainly have days that I
just flat out miss Josh. You know, I can see a picture, I
can see something, and I really miss him.

(37:32):
I liked him. And like Bethany said, I was so
hopeful for restoration in the manner in which I expected it,
which was this side of heaven. I'm going to have restoration,
and I think all of that is a choice.
I think grief is a choice. And if you really believe what

(37:56):
you say you believe, then Christians should grieve
differently and it should look different.
Pretty sure Paul says something about that, doesn't he?
He does. And so it's not that it's just a
choice. And so the choice for me was to
not quit to not give up. Now that have I had excruciating

(38:18):
conversations with the Lord and you know, and I don't care to
hold back any of my feelings from from him.
It's not like he doesn't know what I think anyway.
And in my heart of heart. So why not express that So I
have had deep hard conversations.
Now, me personally, this probably depends on your

(38:39):
personality. Some people, I think when they
go through grief and like God must be great, not not be real.
If he is real, he's not working like the genie that I wanted him
to do and he's not fixing thingsand giving them back to me
fixed. You know, he's not taking broken
things and and just fixing them and handing them back to me.

(39:02):
So they decide well then he mustnot be or they get angry with
God. I personally didn't understand
didn't understand where God was.God, I can't see you in this but
I really never felt exactly angry.
I disappointed might be a right word but more so I tend to be

(39:26):
self reflective and take over responsibility.
And so my my kryptonite would beJody you've missed the mark.
You know God said turn left and you turned right.
Where were you? Why didn't you?
Why aren't you an addiction specialist at this point pulling
your son out? Why didn't you do this to make

(39:49):
sure your son didn't fall back into this?
How could he have gotten there and not told you?
How could you have not seen signs?
How could he have gotten into addiction in the 1st place and
you not know it? Have you released yourself of
all that? Just recently, I will tell you a
story that has pretty fresh. Yeah, that's pretty fresh.
I'm working on all that. So in the last year, well, from

(40:11):
Elijah forward, you know, I havewrestled with the Lord, not
disbelieving in him, but where are you?
I don't have faith for this. And I was really at a place
where I was always afraid of what was around the next corner.
I can remember going to counseling.

(40:31):
This was after Josh passed away and I've had a counselor that I
see, you know, I can go sometimes six months and
sometimes I can go 3 days and I need to call him again.
So I've gotten a, we've been with him for a long time, over a
lot of years. So and I wouldn't dare start
with another counselor cuz you know, I've invested a lot of
time into this man and he knows all the details and I'm a

(40:53):
detailed person. So if I started over, you know,
it would take six months for me just to catch you up on all the
details you missed. So this guy's been phenomenal
and speaking and speaking truth to us.
And he's a believer and so I love him as well.
But I can remember going to him after Josh's death and saying I

(41:14):
am afraid to trust God because Idon't know what he's going to
make me walk through next. And, and he, his response
basically was like, Jody, you'rein good company.
Jesus didn't want the cup either.
You know, Jesus wanted to ask the Lord to take the cup from
him. And so it's OK that you feel

(41:37):
that way. And he kind of like that
relieved pressure that, oh, it'sOK that I'm struggling in that.
And, and at the same time, I washonest and open with the Lord
about that. And so I, you know, I've been as
far as a recent Bible study I did, I did a book called The

(41:59):
Path of Presence. It's by the Belonging Co Paul
Bergen wrote the book. And it's just about learning how
to live and walk in the presenceof God on an everyday basis.
Yeah, it's Christian theology wrapped up in a book.
And so if, you know, I, I shouldget a promotional kickback from

(42:20):
them. But I believe every Christian.
In this episode of the Pulpit Imports podcast, brought to you
by. Right.
I believe every Christian in America should read the book.
It is phenomenal. It's Christian theology.
We'll we'll put that in our shownotes for listen listeners to
find. OK, it it is really a phenomenal
just wraps up theology. So I, I, I did that book, I did

(42:44):
that Bible study. I've been doing that with
Bethany and, and another dear, dear friend of mine, Casey
Buchanan. And so I'll tell you kind of
this story kind of leads to, I think where you're trying to go.
So here we are post Josh, I'm like you said, I'm eleven months

(43:05):
out and just over just kind of Ifeel like I can remember my mom
on 4th of July saying she read the scripture about when you
walk through the waters, you will not be overcome.
When you walk through the fires,you will not be burned.
And she was given in her testimony, you know how she's

(43:27):
persevered and came through. And right now she's cancer free.
She's had multiple hip infections and, and revisions
and, but right now we're on a really good path with her.
And when she said you walk through the fires, you won't be
burned. I looked at a friend and said,
well, I feel like a toasted marshmallow personally.

(43:47):
Like maybe I'm not going to be all fried up, but definitely
going to feel that. I've been walking around a fire
and, and I'm weary. I haven't given up, haven't
given up the faith. I love the Lord, but I really
feel like in so many areas I'm not measuring up.

(44:09):
And so I had a friend, my sweet friend Casey came to me and
said, Jodie, I've got this crazyidea now she this was back in
like May or June that she asked me.
She said, I'm going to skip rhythm and roots this year.
I mean, that's, that's a big deal.
And I'm going to go to a conference in Nashville,
Christian conference. Would you want to go?

(44:30):
I was like, yeah, you know, I don't really care that much
about Rhythm and Roots. My husband is the mayor of
Rhythm and Roots. But I, on the other hand, don't
care. And our husbands are good
friends. So we got permission.
Hey, do y'all care if we skip out on Rhythm and Roots?
But they had each other and so they were OK.
And so Casey and I took off and went to Nashville to this
conference. And on the way to the

(44:52):
conference, you know, I'm just sharing with Casey kind of my
heart and where I felt. And this was no message from my
church individually, but just from the church as a whole.
Once you've walked through really hard waters, things hit
different. They land different on you.

(45:13):
And you know, I can remember like as I'm explaining this to
Casey, I'm like, Casey, you know, the church is like, oh, if
you just have enough faith, or if you just do this or you just
do that, then you're going to see God's plan all work out and
everything's going to work out, you know, for your good.

(45:36):
And and you know, our definitionof for your good, I'm not sure
is the same as God's definition of for your good.
I don't think that means for your comfort.
Absolutely. And so that was, you know, so
that's just kind of where I was like I'm listening, I'm leaning,
but some of this stuff. And it wasn't like I said, it's

(45:56):
not anything my pastor said specifically.
I'm just talking about in general.
Like I felt like I had checked all the Christian boxes for all
the things that you can do persevere, never give up, fast,
pray, sing praise when you don'tknow what to do, do what you
know to do praise. And so I felt like I had done

(46:18):
all of those things. And some praise songs are really
hard after death, You know, he turns dead things back to life
and and these dry bones will live.
Well, none of that felt true to me.
And so I even had to kind of watch what praise music I listen
to. And I'm also a person that, you

(46:42):
know, if I was going to have a real stronghold, it would be in
fear and worry. And particularly when there's
lots of evidence for things thatI should be fearful of and worry
about. And so the enemy likes to attack
me at night. And so when I would try to lay

(47:04):
down and go to sleep, I could start running through all the
what ifs. What if this, what if this?
Do you know what's happening here?
But what if you know your grandkids, your children, your
ah, blah, blah, blah. And so I had heard a statement
that fear and gratitude can't live in the same space.

(47:26):
So turn when you're start havingthese fears, turn them into
gratitude. And so I, I tried to do that,
you know, thank you, Lord, that even through Josh's death,
you're going to use this for good.
And, you know, you try to be thankful, but some of that felt
really fake, almost fake news. And so some of that became

(47:51):
difficult for me. But there is a worship song.
It is also by the belonging company and it's the mighty name
of Jesus that that songs out there, you know now.
And I was able to start taking that song.
And when I would lay down at night and all these fears and
anxieties would come over me, I was able to take that song and

(48:16):
just start singing it. And in that song, you're
declaring all kinds of things over your life.
You're declaring that no weapon formed against you will prosper
and, you know, in the mighty name of Jesus.
And so I started just singing that song.
So I would go to sleep just in my head, sometimes out loud,
depending on where Craig was in the sleep spectrum.

(48:37):
But he normally is asleep beforeme and normally wakes up after
me. So I'm normally able to go in
there and I could sing or put onworship music or anything like
that and, and it wouldn't botherhim.
So anyway, so I started replacing it with song and then
I found that the Lord would start bringing songs to mind

(48:58):
that I needed to say or sing over myself at that time.
So I, I was able to transition from fear to worship in that
regard in a very private manner,specific worship songs that the
Lord would bring to me that would kind of bring me peace as
I'm trying to go to sleep. I'm also, you know, about

(49:21):
hitting that menopause age wheresleep is no longer a thing.
Evidently the older you get, youaren't allowed to sleep anymore.
I guess you're like to get up and do more things for the Lord
in your last little gumption of years of your life.
I don't know. Anyway, so I'm in the car with
my friend and I'm just like, what about when?

(49:41):
And that's what I kept saying, What about when?
What about when you lose your son?
What about when you lose your grandson?
What about when your health is gone?
What about when your son and your husband is going through
unimaginable tragedy and pain and physical ailments?
And what about your parents? And what about, and what about,
and what about when all this stuff happens?
What do you do then as a believer?

(50:02):
And as I'm going to this conference, that's really where
my heart was in the rawness of Ilove the Lord.
I believe the Lord. I think I've missed the mark.
And so we go to this conference and I won't go into every story
that happened, but it felt like the belonging company put on a

(50:25):
conference for 8000 people. But every message was for me, it
felt like the Lord was so specific.
Every speaker that got up. Joshua Elijah trial.
I mean the words that were used over and over and they wrote
songs. I will trust you in the trial,

(50:48):
OK, We will dance upon injustice.
I mean, there were just things that I felt like the Lord was
taking a bow and arrow and pulling back an arrow and
releasing an arrow to me. And when he would release these
arrows, they were the feeling that I can relate it to was that

(51:08):
feeling that I talked about whenJosh went with Eddie James and I
was so overcome with joy that I physically had a reaction.
This was joy mixed with release.Maybe is the right word.
And so those arrows would hit and they would Pierce my heart
and I would be like, couldn't physically catch my breath.

(51:32):
And you know something? He would just speak to me.
And it was as if I had just sat down with the Lord and had a 30
minute conversation. In one second, all the
information was downloaded to me.
So strategies in prayer, strategies for how he wants me
to pray, how he wants me to prayconcerning the trial that's
upcoming and allies that he wants me to get.

(51:56):
And so, you know, he's just setting the stage and I'll just
read you a couple of notes. But I went back through my notes
and highlighted everything I thought the Lord was telling me
over and over. It's not time to throw in the

(52:17):
towel. It's time to get in the secret
place with God. His glory will be revealed in
the midst of the storm. God hasn't abandoned you.
God doesn't bring storms to punish you.
He trusts that with His presence.
Shoe, you can handle the storm. He plans to use it for his

(52:37):
glory. I couldn't stay in the nature
that I was comfortable in to accomplish the call that God has
called you to in the next season.
Your hope is not in the outcome of a situation.
Your hope is in Jesus. There's one particular thing
that I want to read to you. Tend to your heart so that you

(53:01):
can finish this race. We must let go of every wound,
every arrow tip within us. The wounds keep us from running
the race with full stride and freedom.
Like having a piece of glass in your foot, even a tiny little
Shard. Until it is removed, you can't
walk in freedom. Wounds.
Allowing a wound to stay untreated changes your faith.

(53:23):
We stop believing in the miraculous.
Unbelief is the greatest sin, doubting God's promises when the
person spoke on that, you know, I had always thought of unbelief
as you either believe in Jesus or you don't believe in Jesus.
And I'm like, I believe in Jesus.
I don't have an issue with unbelief.

(53:44):
And then the Lord just revealed to me in that moment, Jody, you
do have unbelief in areas you because of these wounds, you no
longer trust me. You have unbelief that I have
good plans or that I can do miraculous things.
And I had been in a breakout session about intercessory

(54:08):
prayer and they told us you needto pray for what you have faith
for. So if you can't say, you know, I
pray that this cancer is miraculously moved from, removed
from your body, don't pray it ifyou don't have faith for it.
If you have faith that doctors can help a person get over
cancer, then pray for that. Pray for what you have faith
for. And I remember silently in that

(54:30):
meeting thinking, well, I can pray for the doctors.
I'm not sure I can pray for the miracle because I prayed for
miracles and they certainly haven't panned out in the
expectation in which I, you know, want it.
And so the Lord just revealed tome in that moment, you have
areas, wounds of unbelief. And so I just began repenting

(54:54):
like, Lord, I am so sorry for myunbelief.
Help me believe like I'm doing all I know to do.
I'm doing all I can do. I think the beauty in that
though is God works in there. He does.
You have this dad who has this son who is he's done everything
that he can to try to save his son who has epilepsy.

(55:16):
In biblical times, they thought he was possessed with demons.
Now we would probably say he hadepilepsy.
He kept having seizures and his dad couldn't take him camping
because it would throw him into the fire.
His dad couldn't take him fishing because he would have a
seizure and it would throw him in.
He's an outcast from society. He, his kid can't go to school.
He can't get a job because no one wants to employ the dad of

(55:36):
the demon possessed boy. And so he hears about this Rabbi
Jesus, who's doing incredible things, and so he takes his son
to see him. And Jesus isn't there when he
gets there. And when Jesus comes back, the
disciples are arguing with the religious leaders over this son

(55:57):
and his dad because they couldn't heal this guy.
And they're arguing about him. Jesus comes in and says, what's
going on? And they said, well, we couldn't
heal this kid. And he said, well, what's going
on? Don't you have faith?
And the dad falls in front of Jesus and he says, I will leave
help my own belief. And do you remember what Jesus
says to him afterwards? Remind me?

(56:19):
Take take your son and go home. Your faith is healed and this
son looks up. Well, First off, the boy falls
down in front of Jesus, and everyone thinks he's dead.
And the religious leaders like, great, Jesus killed him.
At least you had your boy before.
And then his eyes flutter. He looks up and he looks up at

(56:39):
his dad. And he says, dad, why are all
these people staring at me? And he says, because I took you
to see a guy today who, in spiteof my own belief, did incredible
things. And he goes home on the back of
his dad and they go home and play catch together in the
backyard because he was willing to come and say, man, I want so
deeply to believe, but the humanity in me is struggling

(57:00):
right now because I've tried everything.
I've tried everything that the world says that I should try.
I think that that issue of unbelief in spite of our belief
is something that I, most Christians wrestle with.
I love you said earlier. You said you've been wrestling
with God about some things and I'm a wrestler and you're not

(57:25):
alone. You can go all the way back to
Jacob who wrestles with God and and wins, right?
But do you remember what happensfrom then on in Jacob's life?
He walks with a. Limp.
He has a limp. You can tell that there are
those of us that have wrestled with God and one, we've wrestled
with God and we've continued on,but we walk with a limb.

(57:46):
We're different. We're changed because of it.
What is your limp that you're walking with for the rest of
your life? I got to finish telling you what
happened at this conference because it and answer some of
that stuff for us. So you can even tell from the
notes that I was reading that the that God is is, you know,

(58:07):
prepping me for what is about totake place.
Obedience leads to authority. The responsibility of making
disciples will come at a cost. We must walk in holiness and
purity. That's the cost for God to
answer. And so, and here I am at this
conference with 8000 people and the next speaker after, you

(58:30):
know, I've taken notes, I've listened to all this, I'm well
prepped. The God has sent and the analogy
that I kept using to other people was, oh, God sent me an
arrow today. And this really pierced my heart
and this shattered this problem I had, and this shattered this
problem, and this told me how tohandle this issue.
And so, you know, I had been given arrows through this whole

(58:53):
thing. And that was the terminology I
was using. I had become friends with the
film crew, remarkably enough. And I had told them God's used
some arrows within the this conference to just break some
things free. And really, if that's all that
had happened, I would have walked away a winner from this
conference. And I go to Louis Giglio was

(59:17):
speaking this night, and I'm a huge respecter of Louis Giglio.
And so, yeah, I, when I taught college on the side, I would do
30 minutes before we could talk about accounting.
I did a 30 minute devotion because I was at King
University. They were a Christian college
and so they allowed it. And so I took my opportunity.
Then I thought, there's a lot ofthese people that I'll never see

(59:40):
in church either, but I can givethem, you know, they're a
captive audience and I'm the professor, so I've got some pull
over them. And I'm 60 minute accounting
class and you get a 30 minute Bible study.
You get a Bible study before we do accounting and and Louis
Giglio, you know, stars and Wales and some of his videos
that he's done. I would show, you know, a clip,

(01:00:01):
a 15 minute clip and and get a cool point across.
And so he. He wrote a book recently.
Don't let the enemy have a seat at your table.
I've read the book, you know, soI'm just a fan.
So we're going in, I'm going with some other ladies.
I'm like Louis Giglio. Do y'all know Louis Giglio?
And they're like not, not anybody as nearly as pumped as
me. But I walk into the message with

(01:00:24):
Louis Giglio, and he basically says he gets down and before he
speaks, he says he kneels beforehe starts his message and prays
and kneels on this stage. And so again, there's 8000
people in there. He's kneeling on the stage.
And he says, you know, this message has already encouraged

(01:00:47):
my heart. And I know that it will
encourage many people in this room.
But I have never felt more certain that this message was
meant for one person, one heart in this room.
And it is to be used. God wants to use this as an
arrow to speak to 1 heart. So he's already got my attention

(01:01:07):
with an arrow. And then he begins to say, this
is not, this is meant to save a person, not save them into
salvation, but save them from quitting, cashing in, throwing
in the towel, you know, not fulfilling their calling.
And he basically goes into and he uses Habakkuk 319 and about

(01:01:34):
you've got feet of a deer that you can climb to high places.
And so he starts with that. And then he talks about wind and
and wind in a harbor and how the, the Gale force winds are
are coming at you. And because of those
circumstances, you think you might be thinking God's not in

(01:01:56):
it, God didn't call you to it and you think you've missed the
mark. You think you've missed timing
or direction. And so he literally says you
think God said go left and you went right.
Again, very specific analogy to what I had been previously

(01:02:16):
saying and even saying on the week and you know, going up
there. And so he said, or maybe it's
because you carry the name of Jesus that the gates of hell are
coming against you, but they will not prevail.
And so he goes into this whole thing of like how the Lord, the
directions, instructions that the Lord has given you.

(01:02:38):
And he basically says, you know,you're to let go of control.
Well, you know, I'm a control freak.
And so that's that spoke my language and you have to control
has to be released. And then he said, you know, I
Jesus is saying he wants you to say to him, Jesus, I release
this and name it to you. That was .1.

(01:03:01):
And you're constantly releasing Castor anxiety on him to guard
your table. Don't let the enemy have a seat
at your table. And basically the premise behind
that book is even though I walk through the valley of the shadow
of death and you know your enemies, I will prepare a table
for before you in the presence of your enemies, that even

(01:03:22):
though you have enemies surrounding you, God is asking
you to sit down at his table andhave dinner.
And he wants your enemies to seehim sustain you.
And so that's the whole. And then to expect our allies.
And then he goes basically into,you know, the feet of a deer,
the cloven hooves. And you can scale, you can cling

(01:03:47):
to the rock and scale high places.
And so you may have a bear or you may have a line coming after
you, but you're able to rise up out of the muck by clinging to
him and stand on high places. And he's created you for it.
He's giving you the feet of the deer.
And so in that moment, so much of the anxiety, the hurt, the

(01:04:09):
misunderstanding, you know, I just felt God melt away.
He threw the arrow at me. It pierced and it shattered
several of misbeliefs that I hadgoing on.
And some of that, you know, I think I had prepped the stage
because I was seeking God's voice.
I was choosing to not wallow, but to get up and go to a

(01:04:30):
conference where I could hear from the Lord.
I was choosing to isolate myselffrom everybody else so that I
could focus on what the Lord wanted to say.
And one of the other things thatI think that I have been asking
and been saying, Bethany can attest to this.
She's been in a Bible study withme.
I know I don't have proper perspective on Josh in

(01:04:51):
particular. And so I have been asking God.
I know I'm not looking at this through correct lenses.
I'm looking at this through earthly mom lenses.
And this is tough. Show me how to view Josh's
death. Teach me how to look at that,
how to look at Josh's death. And so in that moment, I felt

(01:05:14):
like, Jody, this is not a punishment.
These situations you're in are not a punishment, though they
are due to sin. They are not a punishment.
It's a gift. I intend to use it.
And because you have walked in obedience, you have authority in
areas now you didn't really wantauthority in, but you have

(01:05:37):
authority. And with obedience comes
authority. And you know, it was just the
Lord saying I am in this. You think because of these
circumstances, I'm not in them, I'm in them.
And I plan to use it. And so it just gave me a
perspective of eternity. You know, Josh's name, Joshua

(01:05:58):
means God is my salvation. I named him that on purpose.
And so, you know, no, it didn't his, his story didn't end in the
manner in which I thought God would use it.
But God's not finished with Josh's story.
And you know, I'm the one that'll carry that story on.

(01:06:18):
Yes, you are. And so it, it just released me
from the responsibility that I've done all this wrong or
God's not in the detail. And I have one another thing to
kind of wrap up with the conference.
So that was Saturday. So and then I saw like this film
crew that I had become friends with.
They see me and they're like, Jodie, we were so praying.

(01:06:43):
I was so praying God would speakto me through Louie's message.
But that was your arrow. Did you get the arrow?
And so, you know, complete strangers that know a snippet of
my story just confirming what I knew to be true too.
And luckily, you know, it matters who's in your boat like
in who's in your core of friends.
And I was with a friend that wasnot that was excited for my

(01:07:08):
breakthrough. You know, some friends wouldn't
be excited for your breakthrough, but she was
willing to jump in and say, yes,Jodie, that is your arrow.
You know, her comment was, wasn't it?
But nice of the belonging company to put on a conference
just for you, and it truly felt that way.
Invite 8000 people to keep you company.

(01:07:29):
It, it really felt like that, but it was just how cool the
Lord, it made me feel so special, like he is so involved
in the details of my life and inmy struggle and in my story that
he will send Louis Giglio to give me a personal message with

(01:07:49):
like instructions. Do you know how many times in
life I've been like, if the Lordwould just write it on the wall
and tell me what to do, I would do it.
And so I really felt like in that moment, the overall feeling
was God cares enough about me toget in the muck and let me know
personally. I hear you.
I see you, you know, you're not abandoned.

(01:08:12):
I'm with you. And so I walked away with, yes,
there might be an adversary around the next corner, but
there will also be an ally. God has strategically placed
allies throughout my life and I can go through anything.
I can walk now. I'm not inviting anything.
Don't get me wrong, I feel like I've, I've done a lot, but you

(01:08:33):
know, I can go through anything.I can walk through anything as
long as I'm holding on to his hand.
Wow. And so that's what I walked away
with. And God just spoke that to me
very clearly. And then to put icing on the
cake, you know, I, I knew that Josh knew the Lord.
I knew that Josh loved the Lord.And I, I was with Josh when he

(01:08:55):
made a profession of faith as a child, and then he did it again
as an adult. And so, you know, I know that
addiction or, or drugs are not an unpardonable sin to God.
And so I don't believe that in any way.
But you know, how do you know that?
You know that you know that he'sthere, you know?

(01:09:16):
And so my sweet friend Casey hadtold me she had lost a brother
about a year before Josh passed away.
And so she told me that a mentorhad told her you're never more
close to your loved one than when you're worshipping because

(01:09:36):
they're in the heavenly realm worshiping.
Your spirit is in the heavenly realm worshiping.
And the only thing that separates you is your skin.
And so, you know, I have that thought, you know, floating
around in my mind. And we're in worship.
We're with 8000 people praising the holy name of Jesus.
It did feel like you were in a choir and in multiple times

(01:09:58):
during this conference, they would say, let's join heaven's
choir. And so it felt like that.
Well, we had been in the same seats all week long, showing up
two hours early, you know, to make sure we got the right seats
and, and we moved over this one day.
We decided I kind of, it felt very haphazard.

(01:10:18):
I just said, hey, let's instead of being in this section today,
we're going to have a few more people sitting with us.
Let's scoot over to this sectionso we would have a better
unobstructed view for everybody that comes to sit with us.
So we moved over a section and the song came up.
You'll know the song, but the words came across the screen and
it said, you silence the boast of sin and grief.

(01:10:40):
And in that moment, a guy sitting in front of me in this
new section I moved to raises his hand in praise and my hands
raised in praise. And this guy raises his hand in
praise and it his arm looked physically the way he held it
his hand, everything about the arm looked exactly like Josh's

(01:11:01):
arm. And his tattoos, I'm sure we're
very different, but they appeared to be the same from my
perspective. And the Lord just again
downloaded another arrow. To me.
And he gave me the moment to say, Jody, just as your hand is
raised in worship, so is Josh's hand raised in worship right
now. And there's a physical thing for

(01:11:22):
you to see, a physical image foryou to be reminded of.
And he said, I am so involved inthe details of your life that I
will have you scoot over seats so that you can have an
unobstructed view of what I'm trying to show you.
Can I say one thing real? Quickly.
So earlier you asked me how it'sbeen.

(01:11:46):
I just want to, I feel like it'sreally important to know that
all of these answers that Jody received or not, it was with
years of her asking these questions and that she asked the
questions and did not receive answers for years.

(01:12:07):
And that's really hard to walk out and still have faith and
still believe when you have so many unanswered questions,
especially in pain and grief. Yeah, I'm sure we've got
listeners right now that are saying I've been praying those
prayers for years and I'm not getting the answers.
If you are a believer in Jesus Christ, you will have unanswered

(01:12:28):
questions for extended period oftime.
I think every Christian who truly knows the Lord is going to
go through seasons of life whereyou're going to ask the hard
questions in your heart, desperately wants the answer and
He will reveal it in the right time.
And you just got to keep the faith.

(01:12:48):
So when you ask me like, how hasit been watching her?
I've seen her have tremendous pain, lots of grief, lots of
unanswered questions, yet she still believes and she still
puts herself in a position for God to talk to her, you know,

(01:13:11):
and so as as anybody's walking out, pain and grief at any
level, just continue to have, it's OK, it's OK to ask those
questions, but try and put yourself in a position that when
God is ready to download, you'rethere to receive.

(01:13:33):
So that's the only thing. Because it, it was not, it has
not been short lived. It's been years.
Been years. Jody, a couple, couple last
questions for you. OK.
Last episode you talked about a prayer that you prayed several
years ago and Robert and I both commented on how what strength
that took to pray that prayer. Do you feel that God answered

(01:13:57):
your prayer? I do.
And this conference, I'll kind of give you an example for why I
even think that. You know, when I went away to
this conference, I kind of disconnected from the world.
And I'm in this little bubble and then in a mountaintop
experience. And it's euphoric.
It's, it feels good. It, it's, you're saturated with

(01:14:20):
the Holy Spirit. His presence is tangible.
And when I walked out of that, you know, I was there for
several days, a Wednesday to a Sunday.
And when I came home, I had to like transition to the real
world. Well, the real world's got
problems. And, you know, there was
opportunity, even though I got these great answers, don't think
I didn't have opportunity to practice what instructions I had

(01:14:43):
been given right away. There was opportunity for me to
use that. And, and as I'm transitioning,
I'm just thinking, here Josh is in the presence of the Lord.
He's in that mountaintop that I got to experience on earth.
Just a snippet of it and he is at total peace in the presence

(01:15:08):
of the Lord. Freed of addiction.
Freed of addiction. And so, you know, Josh had a
hard time on earth. And I'm bummed that I don't get
to talk to him and I miss him tremendously.
But my relationship with Josh isnot over.
It's on pause. And I also listened to the Bible
recap with Terry Lee Coble, and she said something early in that

(01:15:30):
that said sometimes God heals. Sometimes God brings hardship in
the temporal to bring healing inthe eternal.
And that statement, you know, obviously has latched on to me.
And so did my prayer get answered in the manner in which
I anticipated or wanted? No.
But does Josh? Josh means God is my salvation.

(01:15:54):
Did God save Josh? Yes.
Is there redemption in his story?
The redemption is the grave is empty.
And so Josh's grave is empty andhe's there.
So, you know, it's not ideal, It's not what I wanted, but he's
going to be meeting to get me. And he's taking care of Elijah
and Nancy's up there. They're having big adventures,

(01:16:16):
no doubt. And you know, when I get there,
he's going to have things to teach me about the Lord and
instead of the opposite. So yes.
Jody, what imprint has Josh lefton your life?
Oh, my goodness. To love well, you know, to love
deeply, to love well, to give generously.
I have those tendencies anyway. But Josh was a giver when I sent

(01:16:42):
him to Eddie Jenkins Ministries.I packed him up with some really
nice stuff. And every time I was turning
around, he's like, Mom, could you buy me a coat?
I gave my coat away or I gave this away.
You know, anytime I would send him a care package, Josh rarely
kept it. He mostly gave everything he had
away and so I he just was the hands and feet of Jesus in a

(01:17:03):
very tangible way to a lot of people.
So that would be a take away. I do have one other thought that
I could give you. You know, I had said, what about
when? What about when your son
overdoses? What about when you lose your
grandson? What about sickness, financial
struggles, addiction, ski accident, health issues, health
issues with parents? What do you do then?

(01:17:24):
What about when? And kind of the answers that
I've come to are stand firm, wait on the Lord, be obedient,
press in, look for opportunities, as she said,
where God can speak to you. Be repent of.
You know, I think as Christians,I heard at that conference,

(01:17:45):
again, I heard them say, if you're not reading Scripture on
a daily basis and it's not pruning your heart, you're not
reading it the right way. And so be repent of, and then
suffocate anxiety with praise. Wow.
That's what you do when. We ask every guest who's on the

(01:18:07):
pulpit and porch with us when you leave the porch today, what
is one thing that you hope our listeners carry with them?
To stand firm, don't. Quit, don't quit.
That's right. Not quit, it's.
Beautiful. Well, that is all the time that

(01:18:27):
we have for this edition, the Pulp and Porch podcast.
We want to thank Jodie Raimi forcoming and joining us for the
last several hours sharing her remarkable story.
And Jodie's story reminds us that faith doesn't always take
away the pain, but it gives us the strength to walk through the
pain. It's a story of heartbreak, yes,
but even more, it's a story of hope, a reminder that when life

(01:18:48):
breaks us wide open, God is still writing something
beautiful in the middle of it all.
So if you walked through loss, if you've wrestled with
questions, if you've wondered how to keep believing when the
world feels heavy, let Jodie's story remind you that you're not
alone and your story isn't over.Remember, Psalms 30 says weeping
may last through the night, but joy comes with the morning.

(01:19:10):
So from our porch to or to yours, hold on to your faith.
Look for grace. Keep showing up to the story
God's still telling through you.And we'll see you next time,
right here on the pulpit and porch.