Stories that shape us, shake us, and sustain us.

The past month has been full of stories. Some inspiring, some heartbreaking, and some that caught us completely off guard. From powerful conversations with Kyle Goff, Robert Bess, Hayley Wherry, and Kim Weitkamp… to headlines of tragedy and division… to even the shared hope of a no-hitter at a Dodgers game, every story points us somewhere.

This week, Tony and Robert pull it all together. What do these stories reveal about our culture, our faith, and our need for hope? How do small things, like the right song, a good book, or a strong cup of coffee, actually help sustain us when the world feels heavy?

Pull up a chair on the porch as we explore how the stories around us don’t just entertain us… they shape us, shake us, and sustain us.

Don’t just listen, be part of the story.

Listen now wherever you get your podcasts!

#ThePulpitAndPorch #Podcast #StoriesMatter #FaithAndLife #ChristianPodcast #HopeInTheChaos #Storytelling #PorchConversations

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
This past month has been full ofstories.
Some inspiring, some heartbreaking, some that made us
laugh, and some that made us shake our heads.
But all of them remind us. Stories shape us, they reveal
what we hope for, what we fear, and where God is.
Still writing this today. So excited to recap and talk
about our conversations with Kyle Goff, Robert Best, Hayley

(00:25):
Weary, and Kim Whitekamp and just kind of some other things
that maybe is happening in culture, society, and life.
So hang on, grab a seat and herewe go with the pulpit and porch.
Welcome to the Pulpit and Porch.I'm Tony Maher and with me, as
always, is my friend Robert Kell.
Hey everybody, we are so glad you're here.
The pulpit and porch is where wekick back, put up our feet and

(00:47):
have real conversations about life, faith, growth, and maybe
even a little sports and pop culture.
If you're looking for a perfectly polished sermon,
you're probably in the wrong place.
Yeah, around here it's more about those honest heart to
heart conversations, like the one you'd have on a front porch
with good friends. Sometimes we stay on track,
sometimes we take the scenic group.
And honestly, that's half the fun, isn't it?
We dig into the highs, the lows,and all the in betweens of

(01:09):
living out your faith in real life.
Along the way, we may pull up a few extra chairs and invite some
friends under the porch to sharestories and ideas that just may
change the way that you see things.
So whether you're chasing your purpose, building your faith, or
just trying to live a little more fully, pull up a chair,
grab some sweet tea, and join us.
This is the pulpit and porch we got to see waiting for you.

(01:40):
So it's been a while. It has been, it's weird because
normally we record on the same day every week and we're not on
that day this week just because life happens and I now I feel
like as soon as we finish, I have these certain things I have
to do. I don't have to do any of those
things today. Today's your day off.
It is my day off, but like this is not work.

(02:02):
It is, but it's not. You know what I mean?
It is. But it isn't.
Probably less work for me cuz I don't have to edit the show.
Yeah, the. Editing's not the fun part, Hey,
we're off to a good start here today.
People are so enthralled. Let's go to a deep dive about
editing a podcast. That's gonna get the viewership

(02:24):
up. Run it through the roof.
How are you my friend? I'm good man.
It's a it's it's kind of fun. It says here to get hot, but
it's kind of folly weather wherewe are.
And I love this season is my favorite and hoodies and shorts
is my favorite season and that has been our life for a little

(02:45):
over a week now and I love it. Over the last couple of years,
I've developed fall allergies. I didn't know that fall
allergies were a thing. I knew spring allergies were a
thing because everything's coming to bloom.
Everything's coming to life. And and why would you be getting
our seasonal allergies in the fall?
From death. I feel like death.
Death is bringing you allergies,so all the all the molecules and

(03:10):
particles dropping from the things that are dying are
causing you to have more allergies now in the fall.
Yeah, I feel like death. I've never had allergies and we
moved to Florida for a couple ofyears and came back and I, I
don't know if my body shifted and to Florida in those couple
of years or what, but I never had issues with allergies.
We got back here. And so for like the last 15

(03:31):
years, I've just been dealing with different varying types of
allergies. Like I never used to get like
Poison Ivy, poison oak stuff. And now, I mean, a few weeks ago
I had to go get a shot and get on a steroid pack and all kinds
of stuff trying to get take careof it.
And same thing with just seasonal things of having to
take kind of Allegra or whatevertype of stuff.

(03:53):
But yeah, I'm with you. It's miserable.
Allergies don't exist in Nevada.In Southern Nevada at least,
there's no such thing as allergies.
And people don't know what that word means.
It's kind of like humidity. It's a foreign word.
It's something that you only read about in books and see on
TV shows and and movies from ancient times and olden days
don't have those things. You said you said Nevada and of

(04:16):
course I say Nevada and it drives you crazy.
Did I tell you for one of my kids said the other day when I
asked them, I was like, hey, howwould you say where Las Vegas is
AT? And one of them said Nevada.
I was like, please say that to Tony.
I can't remember if I told you. That's about as redneck as you
can get on. This like that is awesome.
So this this past week we went to visit some family in

(04:37):
Baltimore, MD. That's how you say that it's
Baltimore and Maryland, not Maryland or Maryland.
It's Maryland, Baltimore, MD and.
I don't know anyone that says Maryland, but.
I was just clarifying that for you because you seem to be
phonics challenged. That's the the a thing.

(05:00):
There's nothing phonetically that would make one right or
wrong. Maryland would actually be
incredibly like. I don't think there's any way to
say that would even be right. I'm, I'm, I'm telling you that
it's Maryland. It's how you pronounce it, the,
the land of the Blue Crabs. So we went up to visit some

(05:21):
family and to watch the Dodgers play.
And we'll talk a little bit moreabout that later.
But we're sitting at our, our family's house and there are
these massive bugs everywhere. My wife and I both commented on
these bugs that they looked like, they looked like flies
that were the size of your thumb.
And yet underneath their wings it was bright, bright red and

(05:44):
didn't know what they were. And they were everywhere.
And so said to my uncle and aunt, what are these bugs?
And they're, oh, oh, they, they came here.
There came about two years ago and now they're everywhere.
And so Amanda did some research and they're this invasive
species called a Lantern bug or lanternfly, and they're taking

(06:07):
over, so much so that when you Google them, it says if you see
one, stomp on it, squish it, smash it, make sure it's dead.
Because we have got to stop the infestation of these things
because they're destroying crops.
They're causing millions and millions of dollars of damages
to food and crops and produce. And, and my uncle said, yeah,

(06:31):
before you get in your car to head home, check your car, make
sure you don't have any because you do not.
We've got to stop the spread of these things that they are
horrible. So we're, we're driving and
we're on 81. So we've, we've driven, we're
about 2-3 hours into our trip and all of a sudden I feel
something crawling on my leg andI look and it's one of these
bugs is crawling on my leg. And so now I'm thinking, are

(06:53):
they like they look like they'redangerous, They look like they
could murder you in your sleep. And so I'm driving 72 down the
Interstate, give or take 5 milesan hour.
And, and I have a panic attack because this thing is crawling
up my leg. And so I start kicking and
flailing and, and opening up thewindow and trying to get it out

(07:16):
of the, the car. And then it hit me that my uncle
said check your car, and I didn't check my car.
And so there's a good chance that we contributed to the
growth the the map movement, theepidemic of the Lantern bug.

(07:36):
They also said stomp it and you threw it out somewhere.
So when that spread happened somewhere in Virginia on I-81,
that's going to be on you as well.
It is good time though on the trip.
We had a great time. Yeah, we'll talk a little bit
more. About you're talking about that
a little bit and we saw some baseball and things like that.
Yeah, I saw some great baseball,saw some bad baseball and we saw
some baseball. Got to see Clayton Kershaw pitch

(07:58):
and threw a gym, so that was exciting.
Got to see Shohei pitch, that was exciting.
Did. He throw Saturday.
Shohei through on Friday, but onSunday when Kershaw pitched,
Shohei started the Game 2 for two with two home runs, and he
finished the Game 2 for two withtwo home runs and three walks.

(08:19):
So got on base every single time.
It was great. But I was thinking, you know,
while we were gone and then coming back, our headlines have
been full of tragedy. They've been full of heartbreak
and stories that that make you wonder what is happening in our
world. And we're going to dive into

(08:41):
some of that. But the reason I told the story
of the Lantern bug is because something spreads so quickly
when it gets out of control. And I think that what we're
seeing, and we've talked about this a couple of times before on
this show years ago, when, when we've been dealing with social
issues that have taken place, ishow quickly hate can spread.
How quickly things can go from from being something that we

(09:06):
didn't even know about to something that is consuming and
destroying everything around us.And as I look at social media, I
look at the news over the courseof the last couple of days, I'm,
I'm concerned, I'm concerned that we're seeing an infestation
of hate. I'm concerned that we're seeing
a multiplication of division amongst people, and we want to

(09:33):
spend some time talking about that today.
We also want to spend some time revisiting.
It's been a while. We've had some incredible guests
the last few weeks and you and Ihaven't had a chance to just sit
and kind of revisit some of those conversations that we've
had with some great people. And people might be thankful for
that, but I mean, today's the day we didn't have a guest
schedule for today. And, you know, just thought,

(09:53):
hey, let's just look back and, and talk through some of those
conversations and what they meant to us and, and how they've
inspired us. Yeah.
And I think that some of the conversations that we heard from
Kyle and from Robert and from Haley and from Kim over the
course of the last month, they really speak in to what's
happening in our world today. And so today we want to just
kind of discuss some of that, talk through some of that,

(10:15):
revisit some things what stood out to us, what are our thoughts
on some current events. And so, yeah, it should be a fun
episode that as we look at the stories that shape us, the
stories that shock us, and the stories that transform us.
Yeah, in typical form, we time stamp everything.
I listened to a podcast the other day and somebody said good
morning and they're like, oh, you're everything's supposed to

(10:35):
be super unknown. You're supposed to just say
hello or good day or something like that to where it's not so
stamped of what it is. But you know, we in the in the
week that we're recording, we'rea couple days after two school
shootings and Charlie Kirk beingassassinated.
And I mean, that's what I'm calling it is what I've seen.

(10:56):
I know there's some people that don't feel like that it was,
but. That's what we're gonna call it.
I mean, it's what we'll call it if somebody, if somebody like,
hey, you're 100% wrong. Please, you know, e-mail into us
or, you know, jump on social media and let us know.
And, and, and you know, we'd, we'd love to have a dialogue
about that and kind of say, hey,you know, help us understand if
we're wrong, help us understand on that.

(11:17):
But, you know, and then, you know, talking about our guests.
But some of those moments have literally just happened within a
couple of days of when we're recording.
And you know, you and I don't know Charlie, I mean, it's not
personally. I mean, it's not like we know
him, but you know, I'm 20 years older than he is almost.
And I couldn't imagine just not being here for my wife and kids.

(11:43):
And he's got 2 little kids and Ican't imagine my going to
sending my kids to school one day and that night going to bed
without one of my kids. And I think those are hard
things to navigate through. It is very difficult to talk
about, very difficult to live through to to see the way that

(12:03):
it's being discussed and talked about.
And I think even what you just said that the fact that someone
could look at that and say, well, that's not an
assassination. The the polarizing effect that
this is happening and happened to our country is Robert is
heartbreaking. I mean, it's really
heartbreaking. It's heartbreaking not only for

(12:25):
for his family, for his wife or his kids.
I think it's heartbreaking for our country for how something
can be so divisive that it calluses us to the humanity of
the situation, that people allowtheir political views and

(12:45):
political opinions to completelyblind them to basic human
emotion and an empathy care justwhat it means to be a human.
Yeah, it's, it's mind blowing tome the, you know, Yeah, we're
speaking about one thing. It is not.
It's not about. And I'll be honest, the the one
that that impacted me tremendously was what happened

(13:09):
in Charlotte on on the bus and talking about basic lack of
human decency and emotion that awoman is stabbed, is sitting
there crying out for help and people just get up and walk by
her to get off of the bus. That, that she dies there alone
in a bus seat on public transportation with people all

(13:33):
around her, that no one stops tohelp, to hold her hand, to
comfort her to, to maybe possibly save her, you know,
save her life. That we're so consumed with
ourselves. We're so consumed with our own
safety, our own comfort, our ownworld bubble that we live in,

(13:53):
that we're completely missing out on what it means to be a
part of the human experience. And I love how Kyle talked about
when he was on with us, living your faith in the real world
that that it's not just living our faith out is not just
something for pastors. It's not just something for
clergy. It's everyday life.

(14:14):
We're called to be the body of Christ, not within the walls and
confines of a building with a steeple on top, but on buses, in
in schools, in public spaces. And a yeah, that, that that's
something that really, really has messed with me this week.

(14:36):
The fact that humanity has gotten to this place where we
can just numb ourselves to the realities around us because
we're so focused on our own selfpreservation.
Yeah, one of my favorite lines, and I'm not this is I, I stole
this. It's not something that I
created, but when when I'm talking to people is just, hey,
tell me your story. And when I look at Jesus, that's

(14:58):
really how he lived. There's so many Times Now.
I mean, it's Jesus. Sometimes he would look at
someone and go, you know, you'reright.
You know, the, you don't have a husband and you know, they've
actually had four husbands and the man you're living with now
is not. I mean, sometimes he would look
deep into the soul of a person and speak to them in a way that
that we don't always have the ability to unless we're stalking

(15:19):
somebody on Facebook or something like that.
But like, he just sat with people who were hurting, who
were struggling, who were sick, afflicted, and he just sat and
he listened and he didn't. And, and even with the religious
leaders, you look at Nicodemus, I mean, we always want to go and
look at the moments where he just kind of told the man how it

(15:40):
was. And ironically enough, based on
our view of scripture and society and culture and
politics, who the man is dependson how we view things.
But like, he sat, he even sat like with Nicodemus when
religious leaders were like, I really want to understand, like
he wasn't yelling at them and hewas just, you know, but God so

(16:03):
loved the world that he gave hisonly son.
And and I just kind of lean intothose moments and I go, but God
didn't, you know, come into thisworld.
I mean to condemn the world, butthat the world through him might
be saved. And I think that we miss the
fact. That's why Jesus came and he sat
across from people that he disagreed with, that did not

(16:23):
believe in the thoughts and the ideology and the faith people
that he. Knew were plotting to kill him.
And literally had conversations with them in.
I hope to win them over, but also to let them be.
I think to let them be heard. I think there's a two sides of
that. I know Jesus was looking to lead

(16:45):
people in path of righteousness and into the what God has had
called this way of of coming to know him, but I just really
struggle with some of those things that we can't have decent
conversation. I think that Kyle, just talking
about that from, you know, and we're influencing people, you
know, in life for the Kingdom and just in life, just for

(17:07):
humanity, regardless of our job.And it's a call to everyone to
to be kind and to be interested in the people that we're around
and have a have a genuine conversation with him.
I'm worried that as we're getting more and more into a

(17:28):
social reality that isolates us from people, that we're going to
see less and less of this. I'm worried that it's not going
to get better, that it's going to get worse.
Yeah, I mean, and I don't want to get down because I was
talking to Mel the other day andI just said it's very rarely
that I do something in less thana year later I go that is so

(17:50):
irrelevant, like it maybe shouldn't even be in existence
anymore. And our our episode about AI, it
is moving so fast that what we talked about about a year ago,
10 months ago. Is outdated now it it it's.
So far outdated, it's not even relevant.
Like if somebody was flipping through and listen to that, they
would be like when they record this 1974.

(18:11):
I mean, it would be the most irrelevant thing that I've ever
talked about in my life. But yet in that moment, we were
really addressing some things that were there.
And I agree, I think as we move into this space where we can
find ways to engage with ourselves but not other people
through through these mediums that we have, it is just

(18:36):
concerning to me. As we we sat down with Robert
Bess and heard his story that hedevoted his life to serving his
country. He devoted his life to
protecting the freedoms that we have in this country, protecting
the liberties that we have in this country.

(18:58):
And now our country seems to be as divided as I've ever seen it
in a divided culture. How does his story of sacrifice
challenge the way that we shouldbe living?
Oh man, you know, I was thinkingthrough this.
I'm not sure most people really think or maybe maybe most people

(19:24):
don't sacrifice is what how I would say that we don't think
about sacrifice. We don't sacrifice like we don't
communicate with people. That's a.
Really strong statement, but I think that it's an accurate
statement if you were really to think about it.
What do we sacrifice? Yeah, I mean, that's what I'm

(19:45):
saying is like, I don't, I'm, I'm irritated when Starbucks
takes 7 seconds longer than it should or 15 minutes longer than
it should. I'm I'm frustrated with people
when I'm trying to get on the Interstate or trying to get
through this or this because they aren't paying attention and
empathy is a lost a lost value. In our society right now where

(20:10):
we don't ever step back and go, is that person in front of me
having a hard time getting theirorder out because they actually
really care? Is the syrup a non fat, non-GMO?
I mean, you know, does it have all these things or are they
really like, did they just have a terrible morning?
Did they have a fight with theirkid to the point that they're

(20:32):
not sure what it's going to looklike 5 hours from now when
school's over and everyone's getting home and they're just
hoping everyone gets home so that they can sit down and make
things right? Is their marriage struggling?
Are they about to lose their job?
Are they grabbing this coffee and it's their favorite coffee
and they just want to walk into work and have this one thing
because their job might be ending and so their mind's a

(20:55):
little distracted. And how do we just not have
empathy anymore? How do we just not have the
ability to sit across and go, Maybe I'm not the most important
person in the room? It's because we're so selfish.
We're so self absorbed. With ourselves, and I think
that's we become more concerned with self than with others.

(21:16):
And it's kind of what we've saidso many times before that we
don't take into account other people's stories, which is
exactly what you were just saying.
I'm, I'm so frustrated that Starbucks is out of mocha syrup.
How can Starbucks be out of mocha syrup?
And I take it out on that 17 year old teenage guy who has no

(21:40):
responsibility in the fact of what's stocked and how shipments
are getting there, and yet I take it out on him because they
don't have mocha syrup. And how could you possibly not?
How could you call yourself a coffee place and not have mocha
syrup? How could you have 90% of the
things on your menu have mocha in front of them and you not
have mocha syrup? One of my kids and I met a

(22:00):
friend for lunch several weeks ago and it ended up being ETSU
move in day. And so we're sitting at a
restaurant, local restaurant, and when we show up our friend
was already there. And so we walk in and sit down
and he's like, it's crazy. And I'm like, well, it's fine.
And like other people are comingup and it was just really busy.

(22:21):
Like we go to this restaurant a lot and it's always busy, but it
was like really busy. And we didn't know it was move
in day. And we have a server that we
always sit in their section and,and they're super great.
And they were just like, I'm so sorry.
And they kept apologizing. So sorry, so sorry.
And we're like, look, if this isthe worst thing that happens to
us, we've had a pretty good day.If like we're we have the

(22:42):
resources to buy food at a restaurant that everyone doesn't
have. We have time to take out of our
day to come and sit and hang outwith friends.
We have friends that we want to sit with.
I'm getting to spend time with one of my kids.
My friend, I mean, has been a huge influence in my kids life

(23:05):
as well. And so the three of us are
sitting and we're just talking art and stories and creativity
and just dreaming a little bit and laughing about stuff and
even just talking about some of the things in this world that we
struggle with. And and we don't all agree on
how we should come at those things.
But it was this incredible moment and I thought her

(23:25):
server's losing their mind and feels like, like, I mean, how
many tables has she had to apologize to today because their
water got to the table slower than they thought it should?
And I thought it's, it's going to be OK.
Like, look at me. I've not missed a lot of meals.
I'd I'll be fine and we'll get through it.
And it was one of my favorite days because it was all you
could eat Wednesday. And it was so busy.

(23:47):
I was like, you know what, I'm just going to get a burger and
make this a lot easier on everybody instead of them having
to bring me 4 wings 3 or 4 different times to get this
every you think you get my, you know, my wing quota in for the
meal. But like you're, but you're
right. Like we can't sit in a moment
and look at something like that and go, maybe I'm not the most

(24:10):
important. Maybe I'm not the my situation
is not the most important thing right now.
Maybe I need to look across the room and just like, go, OK, how
can I take a deep breath and make this person's life just a
little bit better in this moment?
And how can I hear what's going on to where I can help them?

(24:31):
And I just don't think we do that.
I was looking up a definition because I wanted to be sure what
is the definition of sacrifice and the the definition of
sacrifice is the act of giving up something valuable for the
sake of something else. And I wish that the definition
of sacrifice was the act of giving something up valuable for

(24:54):
the sake of someone else, because I don't know that we do
that. I don't know that I do that very
well, giving up something valuable for the sake of someone
else. Yeah.
And you know, it's interesting because that word value,

(25:16):
everyone hearing that associatesthat to something else.
What's valuable to you may not be valuable to me.
Yeah, what's value to me is maybe not valuable to my wife.
Like what would add value to hermight be me finishing up some

(25:37):
work if I'm, you know, getting something, trying to get
something done, but she's getting ready to take the dogs
for a walk. And maybe I just put on my shoes
and grab a leash and walk with her and the dogs.
What would value me is her coming in and going, Hey, let's
watch this movie and her maybe actually not sleeping through it
and stuff in this watch the movie and be able to talk about

(26:00):
it and go into that space. And and I'm just like about, but
most people when we hear value, we think money.
Yeah. And how do I add value?
And, and I don't think everybody, but I think a lot of
people think like, you know, to,to, to give up something of

(26:21):
value. We would think that's monetary
or what can I do? How do I drive a, you know, a
less of a car to not make somebody, you know, whatever
that would be? How do I do this?
How do I do that? And it's typically wrapped
around a financial thing. But for but I think for for me,
I always tend to look at it as what do I value?

(26:43):
The greatest gifts my family hasever given me have all come in
the last five to seven years. And it's been things that were
wrapped around something I valuethat I was not expecting.
A coffee mug that looks like a camera lens.
And everybody's just like that would be stupid.

(27:03):
Why? And I absolutely love it.
And I mean, it's just things like that that I love that my
family thinks a little bit differently and goes, what's
something cool? And it costs like $7.00.
It's not like it's breaking the bank.
They didn't have to save up for six months for it.
It was like, you know, maybe it was 15, I think.
But like they, they got a coffee, you know, cup for $15.

(27:28):
And it like, I love that thing so much.
And I just think it's that kind of stuff of sacrificing and
looking and doing and, and kind of to, to meet someone else's
need where they are. It's just so big.
We had Haley on and Haley's ministry is devoted.
His life is devoted to reaching students in schools.

(27:53):
We had another school shooting this week. 2.
And, and I looked there have been so far where we've already
time stamped ourself. We are in September,
mid-september 2025. As of September 10th, 2025,
there have been 90 incidents of gunfire on school grounds in the
United States. There have been 29 deaths and 69

(28:16):
injuries resulted from these incidents.
And yet Haley keeps going in to this battleground every single
day. Equipping leaders and student,
mainly students, but they're working with adults and students
and equipping leaders to go makea difference for the Kingdom.
Yeah, so huge. So, so incredibly huge, so

(28:39):
valuable that the ministry that he's doing there and and when
everything, every time you turn on the news now, it just seems
to be heavy. It just seems to be dark.
What kind of hope do we get fromthe work that Haley is doing?
You know, here's the beautiful thing.
One of the things I love is thatwhile you and I are friends,

(29:00):
like our, our spouses are friends.
So we have like on the main social media platforms that the
four of us use or inside of texting and things like that, We
have these group threads that go.
And so inside of our, one of ourgroup threads the other day on
social media, your lovely bride sent this thing that Gen.
Z is, is like the is seeking faith.

(29:25):
And, and here's the thing, I would say that isn't necessarily
just Christian faith, but they are seeking faith at a higher
level than any other generation on the planet right now, which
is that generation at the upper end of high school running
through about 28 years old. And So what we're seeing is the
impact of a generation that we see.

(29:48):
We've seen a gap for a couple ofgenerations now and we're seeing
that impact a generation of themgo, hey, maybe social media
isn't the fix. Maybe all these other things
aren't the fix. What if I give faith the chance?
What if, what if I step in and look at this from a perspective
I'm thankful I know you and our spouses are as well, that

(30:11):
Christianity is catching a lot of that in the United States
because I believe that's the hope we have.
But like, I love seeing that. And I believe it's people like
Haley. I believe it's it's teachers and
educators who care more about kids than tests.
I believe it is administration that care more about, you know,

(30:35):
you hear coaches talk about and I think administration and
leadership do this so well. Like, you know, if all I did is
develop someone to be a good basketball player, I felt them.
But if I help them to become theperson, a better person, the
person that they were designed to be, that's the win.
Basketball is just a byproduct. Football, baseball, you know,

(30:58):
pickleball, all those things arejust byproducts of what it is.
And I think that's just something that gets missed with
the men and women who walk into these battlefields every day.
And it's literally unfortunately, and I hate to say
it that way, but it is literallybecoming a battlefield.
We've always talked about it as a metaphorical or a spiritual

(31:18):
battlefield that, you know, if you believe the Bible, then
Satan is on this earth and he's seeking to devour and do.
And I mean, it's, it's, it's so that battlefield, the spiritual
battlefield that's there, but we're on a literal, we send our
kids to a literal battlefield. And I texted our leadership team
Wednesday night, just just so much emotion the, the school

(31:43):
shooting. And then I said another one
happened like the next day. And, and then Charlie, who, who
I listen to a lot. And I don't agree with
everything Charlie says, but I, I, I've said before, I probably,
I'm a pretty conservative guy with theology and, and
politically in, in a lot of things.
But I'm, I think that looks different for me than what most

(32:05):
people would think conservative would be.
And so I'm not as as, as, as conservative maybe as some
conservative people would think I am, but I listen to Charlie a
lot. And, and I don't know, Charlie
for me was a lot like Matthew Perry.
It was something where it's like, I'd let them in, you know,
I let the tea. I'm re watching friends right
now. I usually have a show that's

(32:26):
just running in the background and, and I'm, it's, it's my
background show right now. And you know, I let him into my
house from 1994 until when I was2025.
And I felt like I had a relationship a little bit, even
though it was just digitally. And that's the same way with
Charlie. And it was just weird to have
somebody removed from your life in a, in a, in a moment of those

(32:51):
things. And so I think what Haley's
doing is incredibly important. He walks into these battlefields
and he is he is risking things and helping kids risk things to
create what we're talking about.The whole goal of what he's
leading is to help people learn to sit across the table from
people who think differently than you and have kind

(33:11):
conversations. Yeah.
I think the the parallels that we see between the three guests
that we've talked about so far and we'll get to Kim in a
minute, but between the three are pretty interesting that
you've got Kyle who spent a great portion of his life
devoted to training, devoted to preparing himself, equipping
himself, bettering himself physically, mentally for the

(33:36):
world that that he was in to make himself a better version of
himself. You have Robert who went through
the most difficult training in Buds basic underwater demolition
seal training to to be prepare himself for the battlefield.
And then you have Haley who is training students to step into a

(33:59):
different type of battlefield, to step into a battlefield that
is maybe more torn and divided than any piece of soil that we
see in this country. For sure.
I think that the lessons that wecan learn from the three of them
is that the the training should never stop, that we should

(34:22):
always be in a state of training, in a state of
preparedness, that the battle isnever over.
You know, I think Scripture is pretty clear on that, that the
battle is not over, but that thebattle doesn't belong to us, The
battle belongs to the Lord and that we are simply just carrying
out his mission which has been set before us to love others.

(34:49):
And I get so frustrated when I see the the hate, when I see the
division, I see the animosity that is spewed towards other
people which comes with the battle.
But I think what frustrates me more is that should be expected
from people that don't have Christ in their life.

(35:10):
What's really disappointing to me is to see those exact same
actions coming from people of faith, coming from people that
that would say that they are part of the Lord's army.
You know, when when I was a little kid, we used to sing the
song. I may never March in the
infantry, right in the cavalry, shoot the artillery.
I may never fly over the enemy, but I'm in the Lord's army and I

(35:32):
could actually do it in Spanish for you.
I. Could not I remember the
motions. Yeah, yeah.
Did you do motions in of? Course we did OK Yeah, on Che
Nomarche a la Korea a la yeah, used to lead worship on mission
trips in Mexico and that was oneof my go to's right there.
I think we lose sight of what we're fighting for.

(35:54):
I think we're we become, so can I say, hell bent on our show, on
winning an argument that we forget what we're really
fighting for. And we're fighting for the
hearts, we're fighting for the minds, we're fighting for the
lives of our children. We're fighting for the future of

(36:19):
this world. We're fighting for the eternal
future of the people that we know and love.
And then we get so set on just being right on social media, on
proving to you that my opinion is better than your opinion,
that my view is better than yours, that we, are we any

(36:44):
different than the people on thebus that stepped right over a
Ukrainian refugee who came here looking for safety?
Are we any different when the words we say, the things that we
spew out online are so full of hate, of animosity, so full of

(37:04):
division? And then we come to Kim
Whitekamp, who who taught us that vulnerability is humanity.
Vulnerability. Being willing to listen to other
people's stories, being being willing to share the parts of
our stories that are dirty, the parts of our stories that are
messy, the parts of our stories that are not put together.

(37:28):
That that's the story of humanity.
That's what it means to be human, not to be right, not to
have it all together, Not to prove that my view is better
than your view. And I'm, I'm so scared that as a
world, as a country, as a society, that we're completely

(37:50):
losing that. One of the things that when you
talk about Kim when she was justtalking and just the power of a
story and how it brings, you know, literally brought us and
her to laughter and to tears so many times.
And and that's we we're we're anaudio only right now.

(38:11):
So like you didn't get to see some of that raw emotion.
I hope that you can feel it as you're listening to that, as you
listened to that episode and go through.
But like we need to feel emotionlike it is a it is a character
trait in us that we need to feeljoy.

(38:34):
You know, for everything there is a season, you know, laugh
with those who laugh, mourn withthose who mourn.
I mean, it's just these moments that we need to be able to sit
in that space and do and, and we're more in a world you, you
missed, you mentioned, I mean, sorry, the, the, the stabbing

(38:55):
that happened in Charlotte. And I can't, I can't say her,
her name. I'm such a redneck from the
South. And so I'm not even going to
attempt it and try and do that. But my wife was at work the
other day, Mel was at work the other day and she's and she
said, yes, somebody said that was a fake video.
And I was going, I can't imaginelike I've, I've seen 1/2 a dozen

(39:20):
what I would consider to be incredibly reputable news
sources, podcasters, things likethat.
I mean, I'm, I mean on multiple different like views and
versions of things talking aboutthis.
And I was, and she was like, yeah, yeah, I was at work and
somebody was like, yeah, that's a, that's just a fake, a deep
fake or whatever. I'm, I'm not hip with the
trends. I can't.

(39:40):
I don't know what's called. We were talking with one of your
sons a few minutes ago, and I think we both used a bunch of
teen lingo in ways that he was cringy and then maybe that.
Could you see I might probably use that wrong.
As well. You got that one right.
Right, come on, maybe we'll get to text us.
You're him to the jive, yeah. That's rad man.

(40:00):
Listen to a podcast this week where they ask if you could set
and if you could just set life in any generation, what would it
be? And I think I would go back to
the late 80s, early 90s and I would live in that tote.
I want to be totally pre Internet.
I want to, I want to have Blockbuster though.
I want to be able to go to Blockbuster.
I still wanted like there's somethings that I would want, but I

(40:23):
think like 85 through like 90. When Gatorade came in a glass
bottle. Yes, it was so good.
I'd be like 85. You remember when Snapple first
came out? I've never been a big Snapple
fan, but I do remember when it came out.
Each Snapple when it first came out was revolutionary.
Changed my world. Yeah, Bubble.
Tape. Yeah, so good.
Big League Chew. Oh grape, Big League Chew.

(40:46):
Anyway, that's my concern is we are removing a motion for we're
removing a motion for validation.
And so now I can't have a motionaround this because I have to
start asking, is it even true? So now what?

(41:07):
What is it something but verify?I just went trust but verify.
Now it's it's validate before belief and I know we should
anyway, we should always take and check into things, but like
we can't trust anything anymore.We talked about before, like one
of the main pictures that got started floating around the

(41:27):
Internet was a kid holding a puppy from the flood almost
almost a year ago now. And, and it was a fake.
It really was a fake. It was a fake photo that AI had
generated and people were using it like, hey, this kid was
struggling, floating on a boat down the down the flood,
withholding their puppy. And it wasn't even real, but
people were using it to raise money and to bring awareness and

(41:49):
all this stuff. And I just thought, man, this is
a, it's just a hard world to live in because we need to be
broken and feel the emotion thatpeople are going through.
The other thing I'll say is thissomething that I did not do well
until probably about a decade ago, and it may not even been
quite that long, is I never thought about how much it cost

(42:15):
someone who thought differently than me.
So if someone like, let's just say that they made a shift in
their life or theology or something like that based on
their life before, what it mightcost them to become a Christian,
or I mean, it could cost them their family.

(42:36):
It could lead to a whole lot of different tensions and struggles
at their work inside of their life and their friend groups and
so many things. And I've always just thought,
like, I accept Jesus, it all gets better, but that's actually
not at all what we were promised.
Kind of the opposite. Of that in this world, you will
have troubles, but take heart. I mean, so we were promised

(42:58):
trouble like on in this world and in this life.
And, and I think that that tension for me comes so many
times because we just like, we want things to be so good
because we feel like we deserve something that we don't.
And so we just, that means that if, if I'm not getting what I

(43:20):
feel like I deserve, then I can say what I want to on social
media. I can say what I want to in
public. I can say what I want to about
who I want to. How will I want to at any point
in time, even to the point of taking a gun and walking into a
school or shooting another humanor stabbing someone on a on a

(43:41):
rail car. It just doesn't.
I'm just having a hard time wrapping my brain around it.
And I thought Kim talked so great around.
We need to feel emotion. And I think a lack of emotion, a
lack of feeling other people's pain and are feeling their joy
is causing us to become incredibly selfish.

(44:02):
As you said a minute ago, we're.Going to take a quick break, but
then we're going to be back and and transition a little bit.
Our guests reminded us that stories aren't just told from a
stage. They're lived out in classrooms,
in foxholes, in pulpits, and even here on porches.
When we come back from our break, we're going to transition

(44:25):
and talk about how if those stories shaped us, the headlines
that we're seeing are stories that I think shake us.
We'll be right back. Empowering leaders, enriching
lives. That's the heart of Higher
Ministry. They're dedicated to equipping
Christian leaders with the toolsand resources they need to
thrive in their calling. Whether you're looking for

(44:46):
leadership development, strategic planning, or community
outreach strategies, Higher Ministries is here to help.
Visit higherministries.com to learn more and thank them for
sponsoring our podcast. So Robert, I told you that
earlier this week. I got to take in some baseball
games and I was a part of history on Saturday night this

(45:07):
this past week, which by the time this airs will probably
about a month from from then. But we went to Baltimore to see
our beloved Dodgers play, and onSaturday night, Yoshinobu
Yamamoto was pitching. He's our ace of our staff.
And we had lost the game the night before to the last place
Baltimore Orioles, which I have family that lives in Baltimore

(45:30):
that we visit probably about at least once a year.
And if I'm not rooting for the Dodgers, I'm rooting for the
Orioles. I'm an Orioles fan.
Camden Yards is my favorite ballpark.
I think it's a magical place andso we're there in this ballpark
and it was a special night. It was the 30th anniversary of

(45:51):
Cow Ripken Juniors 2131 game consecutive games.
He played 2131 consecutive gameswithout missing and it was one
of the greatest feats in sports history.
I think it's one of those records that will never be
broken. He finished with 2500 and some
odd consecutive games played. It will never be broken.

(46:12):
And there's, we could do a wholepodcast episode just on that,
that when he ended his streak, they put him through some
medical tests and they found outthat over the course of those
almost 2600 consecutive games, he had broken every finger on
both hands. He had suffered multiple,
multiple ligament injuries in his knees, his ankles, his hips,

(46:34):
his back, his elbow. And yet he played through it
all. He was so committed to his team
and to their mission together that he continued on.
And so it was a 30th anniversaryof that.
They were celebrating that. It was a packed house, sold out.
Cal was there, Ken Griffey, Junior was there.
They had a lot of guys that thatwere there to celebrate this.
They did a huge thing before thegame and then again at the 5th

(46:56):
inning. The Dodgers had just come off of
of a loss. And on Friday night's game, the
stands were primarily blue, which isn't out of the question
for a road Dodgers game. The Dodgers travel well,
especially when they're playing a last place team.
The fans really come out. But Saturday night it was
predominantly orange. This place, everyone came to
celebrate. Cal Ripken Junior Yoshinobi

(47:18):
Yamua Moto takes the mound for the Dodgers and throws an
absolute gem. By about the 5th inning, people
started around me, started saying, hey, have you noted?
I'm like, don't say a word because you're a baseball
purist. You know that.
You cannot mention the fact thathe's got a no no going for our
non baseball sports fans out there.
He he was throwing a no hitter, which means that he had not

(47:41):
given up a hit. It's a very rare feat.
And so the 5th inning turns in the 6th inning, the 6th inning
turns into the 7th inning, and by now the whole stadium
realizes what's going on. There had not been a no hitter
thrown in Major League Baseball this season.
The last no hitter that had beenthrown in Camden Yards.
In fact, the only no hitter in the history of the ballpark was

(48:04):
24 years ago in 2001. So the entire place realizes
what's happening is the 7th inning turns into the 8th
inning, and a quick 8th inning happens and now we're going into
the 9th inning and Yoshi is wellover 100 pitches at this point,
but Dave Roberts, the manager ofthe Dodgers, has to bring him
back out. When everyone sees Yamamoto run

(48:26):
out of the Dodgers dugout and head towards the mound for the
bottom of the ninth inning with the Dodgers leading 3 to
nothing, no hitter still intact,the place went crazy.
You have 48,000 people sold out crowd at Camden Yards in
Baltimore, MD with the vast majority of the people wearing

(48:47):
orange, and everyone rises to their feet to cheer that
Yamamoto has come back out, picks up the ball off of the
mound and stares down the batterthat he's about to face. 3 outs
away from all of us together experiencing something
historical. And in this moment, 48,000
people, regardless of the color of their shirt that they were

(49:10):
wearing, regardless of the logo that was on the hat that they
were wearing, regardless of the team that they came into this
evening hoping to see win the game.
Everybody was united behind one purpose and one goal, and that's
that. We wanted to see Yoshinobu
Yamamoto complete this, this no hitter.
I've never seen a no hitter. I've never come close to seeing

(49:33):
a no hitter. And as I'm talking with the
other fans around me, many of them wearing Orioles gear,
nobody else had seen a no hitter.
He quickly records the first out.
We're two outs away from history.
He gets the second out. We're now one out away from
history. And there is an energy in the

(49:54):
stadium. There is an electricity that is
palpable. It is you can you can sense the
emotion in the place there is there is a buzz.
My heart was beating out of my chest in anticipation and
excitement for what we're about to witness. 48,000 people are on
their feet cheering. Jackson Holiday comes to the
plate. And, and it was amazing to me

(50:16):
and I took note in this moment that everyone there, regardless
of who you were rooting for, wanted Yoshi to get this last
out. They wanted to experience this.
Orioles fans were no longer Orioles fans.
They were a fan of history. They were a fan of the story.
They wanted to be part of a story that hadn't been told in
the stadium in 24 years. And with a final pitch, Jackson

(50:40):
Holiday sends that pitch over the right center wall for a home
run. The no hitter is broken up and
there's an audible gasp that took place in the stadium.
People that have been lifelong Orioles fans that were there to
celebrate Cal Ripken Junior in one of the greatest records, a

(51:00):
historical feat that will never be broken, were now disappointed
that their team had just hit a home run.
You could hear it, the agony. Your heart broke for Yoshi Yo
and Nobo Yamamoto. Your heart broke for his
teammates. Our heart broke for ourself
because being a part of something special just vanished.

(51:22):
But then it was like something switched.
There's still one more out to get, there's still a game to be
finished, a game to be played and 48,000 people that were all
joined together in unity and wanting to be a part of one
story now became divided. And now Baltimore wanted to win
the game. Everyone who was wearing orange

(51:45):
and a big bird on their hats nowwanted to be victorious and
defeat the evil empire. That to the other 29 teams is
the Los Angeles Dodgers. I I'll spare all of our
listeners the details of what happened, but we'll just say it
was the biggest collapse in sports history, in my opinion.

(52:07):
We walked out of that stadium hanging our heads in defeat.
One pitch away from a no hitter to losing a game.
And to see what happened amongstthat crowd was something that I
don't know that I've ever experienced.
For me personally, going from the absolute top of the mountain
to the bottom of the valley in about 10 minutes is something

(52:28):
that I don't know that I'd ever experienced before that quickly,
that rapidly. But what was more amazing to me
was seeing the shift, the cultural divide that happened,
the the way that the entire energy of that stadium changed
from a feeling of unity amongst almost 50,000 people to a state

(52:52):
of division and animosity with one swing of the bat.
And it, it made me think, in light of everything that's
happened, everything that we've been talking about is that for a
few innings, total strangers, people that in any other
situation in the game would havebeen against each other, would

(53:15):
have been at least competitors, that most enemies became family.
Why do you think that stories like that, sports in particular,
have that kind of uniting power?I mean, I think that sports, at
least for sports fans, I mean have a connecting power.

(53:40):
In 2010, I was standing at the in the auditorium of the church
I was working at, and we'd put on the big screen the US
national team, men's U.S. National soccer team as they
were playing for a chance to getinto the knockout round.
And Landon Donovan scores the goal.
If you are a soccer fan, there is no question.

(54:02):
And when that goal went in, likeI, I remember like 30 seconds
after that goal, realizing that I had been hugging a guy I
didn't even know. We were just jumping up and down
in circles and, and we were so excited for the US.
And then we step back and we kind of go, oh, we introduce
ourselves. And every time we saw each other
after that, it was just like this kind of head nod and like I

(54:24):
remember that moment and there'sjust such a big thing that's
there. And so I think sports bring that
in. It brings this camaraderie and
it brings this thing of, hey, we're all on the same page.
Regardless of what you think about, you know, whether you
like hot coffees or cold coffees, whether you are or you

(54:44):
know, a steak eater every night or you're a vegetarian, I mean,
like, it doesn't matter. All of those things don't matter
whether you know, Democrat, Republican, all those things are
irrelevant in that moment because we're all a fan of that
team and and there are things where we can be fans of that

(55:06):
moment as well. I always hate when my like I
would never I would be pulling for my team regardless.
I would not want to see the history because I never want my
team being the guy that gets shown every time that click gets
shown. I hate that.
That is like my least favorite thing.

(55:27):
So for Jackson Holiday, there isa guys that are built like him
and he is definitely the next ifhe trends the way he's supposed
to, he'll be the next like BryceHarper in a decade type thing,
stuff like that. He'll be this really.
He does not want to be the real that every time they show
Yamamoto's, you know, no hitter,they're like and here's his

(55:47):
final out and it's Jackson Holiday.
And so those guys are built in away of like, I don't care about
history. I care about but when, And I
think that's The thing, is that once there's hope, then the
division comes. Like there is always a battle.
And so when we sit in, especially if we're wearing the
same colored uniforms, I think it brings a unity and something

(56:09):
that's unique to things. Why do you think that shared
hopes like a no hitter bridge the walls of division and bring
people together? So this may be my hot take for
this episode. I think when they don't matter,

(56:32):
I don't like, it's like for the vast majority of people in the
world, there are a few that takesports really, really seriously
and things. But for the vast majority of
people, even those of us who love sports, we kind of look at
life as the sun's going to come up tomorrow and losing a game
isn't the end of the world. And so I but, you know, I don't.

(56:53):
Yeah, So I don't, I don't have to agree with your view on
everything in life to talk aboutsomething though that doesn't
matter or talk about something that matters or that doesn't
matter to be able to have a goodconversation and enjoy it.
And so like I, I, I think on some levels it doesn't really

(57:16):
unite because, and I think your point was proven in a moment
where because if it really united, like you're talking one
swing, I mean, that's like, whatis, is it even a full second for
a ball to get out of a park at aMajor League?
They're pretty pretty far. It's maybe a second and a half
it in literally less than 3 seconds.

(57:39):
Everything changed. And I think that's The thing is,
is like something has to matter more than that for it to really
transcend the bigger picture. I don't think that it's fair to
say that the unity there isn't real.
I think it's that the unity is fragile because the people were

(58:04):
united under 1 shared hope. Almost 50,000 people were united
under a shared hope for something that they want to do
because they wanted to be a partof something special.
And whether that's a concert, whether that's a great speech,
whether that's a sporting event,hope brings us together.
Hope, a shared hope brings people together.

(58:30):
But then when that hope is gone,that unity that was created is
shattered. And so there was unity, but the
unity was very fragile. When one swing of a bat less
than 3 seconds can break, can shatter that unity, there was
unity. But you also have to think.
Go back 2 1/2 hours and if in the first inning, on the first

(58:55):
pitch of of the top and bottom of the first, somebody would
have just dribbled one up over second base, it's never even a
conversation. And then now everybody's at odds
for 9 innings. Sure, but that doesn't mean that
there wasn't unity in that. Moment No, I get it.
But I, I think that like, that'sa hard thing about sports.

(59:18):
And I also think it's an interesting thing like about
like, I think it's interesting about how we compare it to life
and to bigger moments because it's not just like in sports,
things are incredibly volatile and your your team gets to

(59:38):
reboot. Like Alabama got smoked by
Florida State the first week of the season.
But the thing for me with that, that nobody wanted to talk about
is they had like 24 new players.Sure, they went 2 and 10 last
year, but they bought a professional college team And
and that's OK, That's what happens.
It's not OK. I don't love it, but that's what
happened in football now. And so we weren't playing a 2
and 10 team. We were playing a team that had

(01:00:00):
24 guys that were absolute studs.
On power 4 schools last year andthat that was not the team we
played. So when we showed up, everybody
was like, oh, Bam was a 15 pointfavorite.
They're going to blow Florida State out.
That wasn't we weren't playing the same thing within the day.
It was a game and it doesn't matter like it.
It does not matter to to life onthe bigger picture if Alabama

(01:00:25):
wins or loses that game. The tension is when we hit stuff
that does matter and we can't have conversations around it.
I. Still think our unity is
fragile. I still think that it's fragile.
Yesterday was September 11th. It was we had the the
anniversary of the probably the greatest tragedy that our

(01:00:45):
country has has faced definitelyin our lifetime.
Yeah. And our country, in that moment,
in the aftermath of those terrorist attacks, our country
was more unified than I had everseen.
To bring it back to sports. We had the World Series between
the Yankees and the Mets, two teams that despise each other,

(01:01:06):
that in that moment, there was unity as the president came out
and threw out the first pitch. And and there was this sense of
you may wear a Mets hat, you maywear a Yankees hat.
But in this moment, we are all Americans.
We are unified. Yeah, they were putting on fire
department and Police Departmenthats and and being almost sports

(01:01:27):
neutral inside of that and goingthere's something bigger than
that here. And that unity lasted more than
the swing of a bat. Absolutely.
That unity lasted more than three seconds for a ball to get
from home plate to over the the right center wall.
But in the big picture of things, it didn't last very
long. And, and now we find our country

(01:01:49):
in a place that is maybe more divided than we've ever seen it
before, that there's more hostility, more animosity, more
anger, more hate in in our country.
We are the unity was just as fragile from there.
And and what does that say aboutour unity when when it's so
fragile like that? Well, I, I mean, I think when we

(01:02:14):
start to talk about things that are significant to life that
lead to the tensions and the struggles that we're talking
about here, I think that we, we get back to the place of

(01:02:37):
selfishness. Still the right word, just a
super high level of being inconsiderate of just blind to
what humanity and life should function like.
I, I, I don't, I don't know whatthe word is even, but it comes
down to a space that we, we justcan't imagine that someone else

(01:03:01):
would have a valid point that isn't in alignment with what we
do. See here's The thing is that
while everyone was in agreement,you had 2/3 of a stadium that
showed up to pull for another team and never wanted to get to

(01:03:21):
the 9th inning. Now, they probably loved it in
that space that we took down themighty Dodgers and you know, and
we did that, you know, in an epic way that not just ruined
all their hopes and dreams of a great game, but we did it in
like flash and style and we did something great.
And here's here's what's interesting is walking out of

(01:03:44):
the stadium after that game and coming back on Sunday the next
day for the and talking to fans in the stadium, Orioles fans
were telling me, man, we really wanted to see that no hitter,
man, that was disappointing. Even after the story changed,
even after the unity was gone, their reflection on it was we

(01:04:04):
wish that had happened. And I think that I think you
just made a great point right there.
But I think another thing is that for a few innings, Hope
made enemies into friends until the story changed.
Once the story changed. Once the story changed, the
unity was broken. So help, help me because I'm how

(01:04:32):
how like when we look at social media, because that's the only
platform we really have that we see a lot of this stuff that
really goes because it is just there.
How do we have people that seemingly have become numb or
don't care that school shootingsare happening and don't seem to

(01:04:59):
want to be a part of the of the fix?
How do we have people inside of what happened with Charlie that
are literally saying dude was a scumbag, the world's better off
without him. And I've literally seen that
exact quote. And unfortunately, I'd have to
say it's from somebody that I know.

(01:05:20):
I mean, it's like, how do how are we at that place that we're,
you know, again, I don't, I don't, I'm not you.
I'm going to say I'm not arguing.
It's one of my favorite things that you and I do.
You were one of the most opinionated people.
I am too. But you're very strong.
You're not easily swayed if you have an opinion on something.

(01:05:44):
And so especially when we start talking sports or some things
like that, it's one of my favorite things to do.
And honestly, we don't do it a ton on air because it just ends
up me and you just like 2 grumpyold men.
But this is something though that I am really intrigued and,
and, and it's kind of unfair to ask this question if you don't
want to answer it right now, if you'd like time to think and

(01:06:04):
process and go through. Because I think a lot of this,
even though we have show notes that we're, that we're working
through a little bit and we did spend time getting ready for
this. Like why though?
So like, I get what you're saying, the volatileness and
then in like in the unity that comes, but it's fragile.
But when you get to a point thatit's really about humanity and

(01:06:28):
not a game. Because the end of the day, I
understand that people have jobsin sports and if you lose, you
get fired. If you lose, you get traded.
If you lose, you get sent home. If you get injured, your life is
over. And if you don't have a way to
make money and do things again, I'm not crying for the guy that
makes $55 million being a quarterback every year.

(01:06:50):
But I am saying that like, how do we, when you step away from a
sport, a game, and you move intolife and death and it's still
that fragile and we're actually OK with people being murdered.

(01:07:10):
We're like little kids that wentto school just to go have, I
mean, honestly, most of them didn't even want to go.
They were forced to be there and, and they had to go.
And that they're playing with their friends.
They're making the best of it for a guy that whether you like
him or not, from everything I'veseen, and I have not seen
everything, so I'm pleased. I mean, you're welcome to share

(01:07:33):
with me any video you want to that that helps me understand
better. Seemingly very opinionated, but
seemingly was willing to listen to everyone's view and his job
was to respond. How are we OK with the with the
murders of these kids and this man of taking people away from

(01:07:56):
their families and how can we just go good got what he
deserved? How can we just go, oh, those
kids? I mean how how are we saying
that? Well it's just OK it it happens
How I just don't understand how we fix that frag for like
fragility I. Think that as a society we care
more about ideology than we do humanity.

(01:08:19):
OK, that's a really good statement and I don't know that
you need to go any further unless you just want to, but
that helps me a lot. Something that going back to
Robert is that Robert reminded us with his story and everything
that he experienced, everything that he went through.

(01:08:40):
And the part that I loved so much about Robert's story,
outside of all of the action andall of the adventure and all of
the top secret missions that he was a part of, was that he was
longing and looking for that unity that he found in the
military when he stepped out of his time of service.

(01:09:01):
And I think that his life, his story reminded us that unity
doesn't come from our circumstances, but unity comes
from a commitment to something that's greater than ourselves.
And we've lost that. We're so focused on ourselves.
We're so focused on what's best for me, what's in in it for me,

(01:09:26):
How can I get myself and my family ahead that we don't care
about anything else. If it doesn't benefit me or it
doesn't directly impact me, thenit's not worth my emotional bank
account to invest into it. But I don't think all hope is
lost there. This this situation that

(01:09:48):
happened with Charlie this week.My 17 year old son was so torn
up about it that my wife slept with him on the couch that
night. He, he took a mental day from
school yesterday, kept him out of school yesterday because he
was so distraught over things that he had seen online over the

(01:10:09):
fact that our world, our societyis so full of hate that
something like this could happen.
And not only that, something like this could happen because
that's, that's happened throughout the course of
humanity, right? You, you go back to the, the
Charlotte thing. Jesus told a story about a man
who was wounded, beaten up, leftfor dead, and people walked to

(01:10:31):
the other side of the street to,to avoid him and go by him.
So this isn't something new withour society and culture, but the
fact that now we can celebrate that the fact that there are
people out there that celebrate these things, I think is really
scary and really dangerous. But it's so moved my son that he

(01:10:53):
couldn't sleep at night that a 17 year old boy asked his mom to
sleep on the couch with him thatnight because he didn't want to
go up to his room by himself. Because he was so broken over
the the state of our world, the state of humanity, the state of
his friends, people that he would consider friends of his.

(01:11:15):
And and their reaction to the fact that now you've got a widow
and you've got two kids that arewithout a dad for the rest of
their life. Going back to Robert, I think
that the answer is the church. I think that the answer is that
that unity, that that foundationthat lasts more, it's where

(01:11:36):
Robert looked for it when he left the military and was
looking for that unity, looking for that community, looking for
that family that that he'd had while he was in the military for
serving. The the reason that he felt that
unity within the SEAL teams was because they were working
together for a cause bigger thanthemselves.

(01:11:57):
They were sacrificing themself for the betterment of other
people. They were sacrificing themselves
for A cause for a purpose greater than themselves.
And when he found himself outside of that unity and lost
and hurting because that was no longer in his life, he turned to
the church looking for it, because he'd heard the stories

(01:12:19):
that Christians had that kind ofunity.
But I wonder if that's still notthe answer today, if that's
still the hope for a broken, a lost, a hurting, a fractured, A
fragile world. If the hope to bring that kind
of lasting unity falls into the hands of the church, the

(01:12:42):
responsibility of the local church.
If, if I can just step back to what Robert said there about
like the conversation around Robert really quick and then to
move into the church part. I think the tension for, for me
when I look at society today is that when you talk about Robert
and them, like they developed a relationship inside of a lot of
adversity. I mean, they were facing this.

(01:13:05):
And I think that it's, I think real, I think that connections
are made in good times. I think deep friendship comes
when you navigate adversity and you go through hard things
together. I think that's when the deep
like really comes like, did you really start to share parts of
your life that you Share your story and in you're sitting in

(01:13:28):
these spaces, you go, hey, I'm struggling through this.
Or you have to go into a literalfight together in Robert's
situation, as he was a seal. Or we go into a, a fight that is
an emotional fight or a sick, a fight for health or a fight for,
you know, we, we, we go into a fight with someone, we go into a

(01:13:49):
battle with them. And I think it's in, it's in
hard conversations that when I say hard, I don't necessarily
mean it's, I mean just like deepconversations and inside of the
depth. And sometimes that's really
hard. I think a lot of times it's
hard. It's where real deep connection
is made. And that's the tension for me
inside of the church now is thatchurch, like, you know, when we

(01:14:12):
talk big C, little C stuff, the,the little C, the building has
become an option to people. I think it's actually incredibly
important. I believe that it is still like
one of the primary ways that Godintended to work and to do and
to move in his people to equip the Saints, to go do the work of

(01:14:34):
the ministry. I think it's one of the primary
ways that he intended to work inthe training of believers to to
send, to go out into the world, to do work, to do good work and
ministry. I agree with you completely
100%, but I think historically we've seen that the unity in the
church has been more fragile than even the unity.

(01:14:56):
I don't just in society, I don'tdisagree at all.
I mean at all because it became more about ideology of what we
think the church should be, not what God designed it to be.
Exactly. But then, you know, we talk
about the big C church, us as individuals.
I just think that we like we need to be.

(01:15:18):
I love how Peter says it. I quote this verse all the time.
I'm saying it again on Sunday. Always be prepared to give an
answer for the hope that you have.
But do this with gentleness and respect.
And I just think we've lost. We've won.
I think we start yelling when wedon't know.
So we're not prepared to give ananswer for the hope that we
have. And so when we somebody says

(01:15:40):
something that we think goes against what we believe is true
or right or real, then we just start yelling and saying crazy
stuff. Because if I can yell loud
enough, you'll either, you'll probably get tired and stop
arguing with me and I win. But we're called to be prepared.
And I think the question I'm having, I have to ask myself,

(01:16:02):
and we've talked about this before, like I have to ask
myself, is watching TV shows andmovies as much as I do really
preparing me? Or should I cut those off for
some of that time and read a book or watch something that's
training more or doing this or doing that to help me be

(01:16:22):
prepared to give the answer withgentleness and respect?
Because when I know the information, it's a whole lot
easier for me just sit on this side of the table and go, that's
interesting. Tell me more about that and I
can listen because I'm not trying to put my thoughts
together because I've done the work and I think we're too

(01:16:46):
scared to look at somebody and go, that's a really interesting
thought. Would it be OK if I had a week,
I'll buy you coffee next week ifI can have a week to just think
about that and let's get back together next week and have a
have another conversation about it.
We're too scared to act like we don't know something.
So we just start going like, no,here's where you're wrong and
here's where I'm right and here's where this, here's where

(01:17:07):
this and you're actually an idiot if you think that way.
And I'm just, I just think we'retoo scared.
And so I don't know, Tony, I agree 100% in your statement
earlier that you answered, really I agree with you what you
said about the little C church when it comes to the building
and us as the church that God wants to work and build and do

(01:17:29):
in as well, that I think it's just such a big deal.
We we've got to wrap this up. I was really excited about porch
pics today. I had something that I was going
to share with you on porch pics that was going to make your week
in what has been a really difficult week, but it's going
to have to wait for next week. I loved some of the the things

(01:17:49):
we were going to go with for truth or trash, but that's going
to have to wait as well. Wanted to kind of soften up this
episode a little bit, but I think this conversation would
exactly where it wanted to be. Yeah.
So, so in just to recap things really quick.
Over the last couple of weeks, Kyle reminded us that faith has
lived out daily. Robert showed us that unity is

(01:18:10):
possible through sacrifice. Haley pointed us to hope in the
next generation. And Kim reminded us that stories
connect us through both laughterand through tears.
So this week, tell a story, share it with a friend, share it
with a kid, a Co worker, becauseevery single story points us

(01:18:33):
back to the bigger story that God is writing.
Robert, you have any closing thoughts before we wrap this
thing up? I, I think the only thing for me
is I looked at it all like looking back through these four
conversations. And then of course, the, the
weight of, like you said, not just this week, but this year

(01:18:53):
and, and the conversations that we're having, you know, around
some of these things. It's just how, how do I live
faithfully every day? How do I walk you?
How do I walk through life as somewhat just faithfully being
obedient. I heard Greg Rochelle say this
week that when his kids were growing up, the thing you used
to always say to them is like how you know, when you talk

(01:19:15):
about showing how much you love Jesus, that is defined not in
how you know, can you quote the books of the Bible or how many
Bible studies you're at, But from the moment you know, what
is right to the moment you're obedient is that, does that gap
get shorter? That shows your commitment to
following Jesus, the quicker yourespond.

(01:19:37):
And so for me, I'm, I'm, I'm continually working and this is
something I, I, I'm thankful I've gotten a lot better at.
How do I shorten the gap and obedience and, and living more
faithfully to what God calls me to?
And a big part of that in my life has been listening and just

(01:19:58):
hearing people's stories and being willing to go, OK, what
got them to this point? And God, how you know, what do
you want me to hear? How do you want me to respond?
And, and that's, that's the things that I'm trying to do in
my life right now. What about you?
Headlines, baseball games, you know, they, they're all stories
that shape us for better or for worse, That stories can inspire

(01:20:22):
us, stories can break us, stories can unite us and stories
can just make us laugh. But every one of them points us
back to the bigger story that God is writing.
And, and that's a story that's worth sharing.
So that is all the time that we have for this edition of the
Pulpit and Porch podcast. I want to remind you that yes,

(01:20:43):
stories shape us. Stories shock us, but stories
also sustain us. So Share your story, listen to
someone else's story and share that story.
And remember that unity in this world doesn't have to be
fragile, that through the hope of Christ, that story can
sustain us and bring us all together.
We do want to thank you for listening to this edition of the

(01:21:04):
Pulpit and Porch Podcast. I want to encourage you to
subscribe to The Pulpit and Porch wherever you listen to
your favorite podcasts and maybeall of the places that you
listen to your favorite podcasts.
Be sure to share our show with your friends.
And we would love to have you bea part of the conversation.
We'd love to know your thoughts,your opinions on everything
that's going on, everything thatwe've discussed today.
And you can join the conversation by finding us on

(01:21:25):
Facebook at The Pulpit and Porch, on Instagram at the
Pulpit Porch, or you can find [e-mail].
We can't wait to have you back on the porch next week as we
continue our conversations. Have a great rest of your week.