Things We Wish We Knew Sooner

Grab a seat on the porch and pour a glass of sweet tea. In this episode, Tony and Robert sit down for a front-porch conversation about the things we wish we had learned earlier in life, leadership, faith, and family.

From the lessons that came the hard way, to the truths that finally clicked years later, to the wisdom we’re still learning in real time, this is an open, reflective, and surprisingly funny look at the road behind us and the road still ahead.

Whether you’re in your 20s or your 60s, this episode will challenge you, encourage you, and remind you that God wastes nothing, not even our slow learning curves.

Pull up a chair and join the conversation.

#ThePulpitAndPorch #Podcast #ChristianPodcast #FaithAndLife #ThingsWeWishWeKnewSooner #Leadership #PersonalGrowth #SpiritualGrowth #FrontPorchConversations #LifeLessons #Purpose #HopeAndHumor #Encouragement

Episode Transcript

(00:05):
Some of us thought we'd be astronauts by now.
Others thought we'd be rock stars.
Few of us thought we'd have lifefigured out by the time we
turned 30. But as it turns out, most of us
are just really good at remembering which Tupperware lid
fits that. That is a skill too, right?
Today we're talking about the things we wish we knew sooner,
the lessons life handed us slowly and the surprises we

(00:28):
didn't see coming, The ways God has been shaping us all along.
So buckle up. We're probably going to laugh,
reflect, and we may even make Robert cry a little.
But mostly, we'll realize that we're exactly where we're
supposed to be. Welcome to the pulpit and porch.
I'm Tony Maher and with me, as always, is my friend Robert

(00:49):
Kell. Hey everybody, we are so glad
you're here. The pulpit and porch is where we
kick back, put up our feet and have real conversations about
life, faith, growth, and maybe even a little sports and pop
culture. If you're looking for a
perfectly polished sermon, you're probably in the wrong
place. Yeah, around here it's more
about those honest heart to heart conversations, like the
one you'd have on a front porch with good friends.
Sometimes we stay on track, sometimes we take the scenic

(01:12):
group. And honestly, that's half the
fun, isn't it? We dig into the highs, the lows,
and all the in betweens of living out your faith in real
life. Along the way, we may pull up a
few extra chairs and invite somefriends under the porch to share
stories and ideas that just may change the way that you see
things. So whether you're chasing your
purpose, building your faith, orjust trying to live a little
more fully, pull up a chair, grab some sweet tea, and join

(01:33):
us. This is the pulpit and porch we
got to see waiting for you. There were a lot of different
things that I wanted to be when I was grow grew up when I was a
kid. An Eskimo was never one of them.

(01:56):
Well, I think you're the only person, Northeast Tennessee that
would feel like that. Today is Eskimo Day.
It's 22° outside. You should Google Eskimo
weather. I don't think those things are
similar. This is like an Arctic what do
they call a polar freeze an an Arctic blowing in of frigidness.

(02:22):
This is our third winter doing this show and I just.
It hasn't gotten any easy. And I just wonder if people who
have have hung for the duration that all what, 150 ish episodes,
170 ish episodes have really just kind of got to the place
where they're going. All right, It's time for Tony to

(02:43):
start complaining about it beingcold.
Yeah, probably it it I'm gonna be honest.
It it came quick. I mean, it was, it was in the
70s. Yesterday where I was I was in
Georgia, yesterday in in Atlanta, GA, Marietta, GA and it
was 74 yesterday and sunny it. I I played soccer yesterday

(03:04):
afternoon. I heard about that.
Yeah. You walked.
In here I did, and I play every Sunday.
I play basketball two days a week.
I play soccer every Sunday afternoon.
Just about. We didn't make the playoffs last
year, so I didn't miss one Sunday, so we didn't have
playoffs. You're an athlete.
I don't know about all that. I'm just that trying to stay

(03:24):
active, but and I, I hate you love a gym.
I do not. So my, my, my gym is a
basketball court is a soccer field, a golf course, a disc
golf. I play disc golf on Saturday
over in Bristol. Where'd you play Steel Creek?
Hey, I used to play Steel Creek.I love that course.
I love that. Course, you might have found a
couple of my discs. Still laying around.

(03:46):
Yeah, there somewhere. My brother Melissa was in a
photo shoot with my niece and our our niece, I guess, and I
was walking off my brother-in-law just hanging out
and playing some disc golf and talking life and theology and
all that fun stuff. And so we played nine holes,
which I guess it's they only have 9 baskets, but they have

(04:06):
two TS per basket. Is that correct?
Yeah. And so I mean some of those like
it's stupid how long those things are, but.
Yeah, I've actually shot under par on that course before.
All from the Blues. Yeah, I don't remember.
I don't. Remember, I'm like, that would
be, I don't want to play with you if you've shot.
Under Oh, I'm not good, I'm not good, but I used to play every
single week with the same group of guys when I lived in Bristol.

(04:28):
We played we played Steel Creek every week and you get pretty
good when you. Start to learn how to cut some
corners and do some things. And so I shot under par there
one time, one round. All the other times I've doubled
par. But that one one round I got
pretty lucky. But it was pretty cold.
The Lord shone his face upon me.The, the wind would pick up
yesterday playing soccer and I had like Under Armour on and

(04:49):
things like that. And it was, it was quite chilly,
but but it was like you said, I mean it was 70° when we started
playing upper 60s at least. And by the time the match was
over, it was in the lower 60s. And about two hours later,
Melissa had walked outside and texted me and said it has
dropped 10°. And I said it's dropped way more

(05:11):
than that. I mean, it's like 43°.
And so, yeah, it was definitely a different space.
But man, it was snowing, like snowing steady this morning.
Like, it wasn't just flurrying, didn't accumulate because the
ground and things that didn't gothat long.
But it was pretty. It was awesome.
I love it. You do not.

(05:32):
I do not. I love it so much.
Not in any kind of way. We were talking the day we were
like somebody like, you know, I just think like at Christmas
time starts snowing. I just, I want to go shopping.
I go to the mall or something. And I said not me when it
starts, when it starts snowing, I want to drive in my car it
like because I feel like I'm going into lightspeed with the
start with Star Wars, all the snow at night I will be driving

(05:54):
and just all the snow just flying around like you're going
into hyper speed. Yeah, we have teenage drivers
and I hate it. Last night your son was over
here at our house and it they went out to play basketball in
the driveway and they made it about four or five minutes and
they came back in saying it's hailing outside.
I don't think it's hailing checked.
And it was sleeting. They didn't quite understand the
difference between hell and sleep.

(06:16):
But then your son stayed for a while after that.
And I said, why? Why don't you just spend the
night? Because I don't know that I want
you driving. And when he left, he had to be
at school at like 7:00 AM this morning.
Yeah, he has to get up at 6:00 AM.
And when? So when he left, I said, hey,
shoot me a text when you make ithome because he did text me.
Yeah, he did. But I I don't like these teenage

(06:39):
boys out driving in in that weather.
And it wasn't anything horrible.I'm sitting here thinking that
do I need to park my car down atthe pond so that I can get out
in the morning and make it to our basketball game tonight?
Because we're going to get 17 feet of snow.
And there was nothing at all but.
We may not even get a dusting. I just don't I I don't like it

(07:00):
and we don't. We don't have heat in our
bedroom. Oh, sorry, it's like.
We don't have heat in our bedroom so.
We're at toboggan in your house right now.
I am because it's frigid, not right now, it's not in your
hair, but if you were to walk back into my bedroom, our, our
heat pump for that controls thatwing of our house has been out

(07:21):
for the last three years. And it it only controls the
master bedroom, master bathroom and the gym.
It is the only thing that that'son that unit.
And so we, we just pull out one of those infrared space heaters,
put it in our room and put one in the bathroom.
And we, it was going to be like 6 grand to fix our thing.

(07:43):
Like I can, I can roll with thisfor another year.
And then the next year comes around like, yeah, I'm not
paying to get that thing fixed. We'll just break out the
heaters. But my wife loves the cold,
especially at bedtime. And, and so I've got an electric
blanket that's cranked up to high and she's like sleeping
outside of the covers. And I woke up this morning, I

(08:05):
get up a lot earlier than her most mornings.
And I got up and stepped out of bed and I almost froze.
Like in in place, like solid cryogenic freezing almost took
place. Like Medusa had looked at you.
It was crazy. It was so cold and so yes, I'm
and can can we also talk really quick that I'm I'm dying to know

(08:28):
your opinion on this. I am sporting and we're not on
video right now, but I am rocking as the kids say.
I don't think the kids say that anymore.
Do they not say that? What do they say now?
I have no clue, but I don't think they say rock popping.
Sporting definitely not popping.Not not popping.
No, not popping. That wouldn't be an outfit word
anyway. OK, popping tags.

(08:51):
Anyway. I'm sporting.
Good. For it, I'm sporting a vest.
You are sporting a vest. OK, now I know a lot of people
that love the vest. I love the vest.
Because it warms your torso and a lot.
My wife will walk out in days like today wearing just a vest
and it will keep her warm. In fact, we had the discussion

(09:11):
this morning. When I put it doesn't do it for
me because then my arms are still cold.
And so, yeah, my, my torso is nice and toasty, but my arms are
still cold. And So what?
What's the I don't get the vest?I don't understand the vest.
I I I love the vest. You're getting 1/3 of a jacket.
That's right, if your arms make up 2/3 of your body, you have

(09:34):
issues. You see my arms?
OK, Hulk Hogan. So it's, yeah.
So it's, it's, it's 85% of your body, your torso, your upper
body there. And yeah, I I love the vest.
I love a vest. They're awesome.
Love them so much. Keeps you warm.

(09:54):
Well, I'm also known to actuallywear like a jacket underneath
the vent, like a fleece, like a type thing that's really, really
looks. It's thin but it's super warm
and so I'll wear things. You're known to do that, yes.
Like people know you for that. It's on the Twitter that I am
known for those things, all right?
I'm known around my house. People say, hey, he's, he's

(10:16):
rocking the robber. People.
People. The robber About popping the
robber. That would notice my clothes,
probably Melissa and Landon would say that I'm that that.
Yeah, Dad would wear a vest, buthe also wears like a thin jacket
that's actually super warm underneath it.
I'm known for wearing a cardigan.
You are. Before Taylor Swift made it

(10:38):
cool, people used to make fun ofme and call me Mr. Rogers.
Yeah, because I love a good cardigan.
You do. You still wear them a lot.
A lot. If we ever turn this thing in
the video, people will get theirfeel of cardigans.
Yeah, yeah. Even in the summer.
So what did you really like? What was something fun that you
really wanted to be when you were a kid?

(11:00):
I think you have to go through age categories.
Yeah, absolutely. When when I was.
At this point in time, in older high school, these start to
become you go, oh, I'm probably not going to be the next Derek
Jeter or Shohei or something. Like that.
Oh, no. Older high school.
I still thought that I was goingto be Magic Johnson.
Yeah, I remember was at 92, which would have been about my
freshman year of high school, when Magic Johnson made his

(11:21):
announcement that he had HIV. And back then that was
essentially a death sentence andhe was retiring from the Lakers.
Immediately. I went outside into my backyard
and did not come in for about 3 or 4 hours as I was just
shooting, practicing, practicing, practicing in my
backyard court saying to myself over and over, I'm going to

(11:43):
carry on your legacy Magic. I'm going to do this for you.
I'm going to get there and be the next point guard for the
Lakers and and carry on your legacy even though since you
can't and I'm going to be there for you.
But when I was really young, there was a period from I'd need
to look and see. I think it came out like 19, 80
either probably 1985 that there was a period of about two or

(12:05):
three years when Top Gun came out that I wanted to be a
fighter pilot. And I took an old refrigerator
box and turned it into an F16 inour living room and would get in
it and fly and and you know, be the go after the Red Baron, play
those those games as Snoopy. And that that I really wanted to
to be a fighter pilot. And then after fighter pilot, I

(12:27):
really kind of jumped right intoprofessional athlete that I
thought that I went straight from fighter pilot to NBA
basketball player. And that lasted an NBA
basketball player lasted until about 34 when when I finally
gave that one up. How about you?
You know, as a, as a younger kid, I mean, I was, I love
sports and I was like anybody like, oh, it'd be fun to do

(12:48):
this. There was something about I
always enjoyed like I spent way more time in class, like drawing
and and it was always just theseweird like super complicated,
like like labyrinths of tanks and things of like these huge

(13:09):
underground. And so dad and I watched a ton
of like military type movies andthings like that as I was
growing up. Probably lots of mash and things
which I guess would have smash over by the 70s.
I think it ended early. 80s, early 80s.
So I would have, I would have, Imean, I was born in 75, so I
would have been, you know, old enough.

(13:29):
And so we were watching MASH as ATV show thing 18, things like
that. Love the 18 so good.
And my name's Tony. Yeah.
And so I wanted to be Mr. T Yeah.
I actually had another refrigerator box that I had
turned into the van. Painted it black, red stripe
down the. Side yeah.
And so I think there was this part of me, this whole military,

(13:50):
like I never wanted to be in themilitary, but I liked drawing
and doing those types of things.And and I never got like what I
would consider to be like, oh, hey, I'm going to, I'm going to,
oh, what is it called when you're the artist for a comic
book? I just went blank illustrator.
Yeah. It's like, I just never going to
be the illustrator for, you know, Spider Man or anything
like that. But, you know, I enjoy drawing.

(14:11):
I enjoy doing that kind of stuff.
And those things actually kind of evolved almost into drawing
these crazy like arena type things that were basketball and
volleyball and, you know, all these different sporting things
that came under this one roof and complex and doing a bunch of
stuff like that, that I just always kind of lived in this

(14:33):
space. I mean, how do you create?
How do you do? And getting out of high school,
I just, I just love sports. And I was like, I'm going to
stick with this. And like on the way I knew to do
that because I wasn't going to be good enough of sports to do
anything was to to coach. And so you go out and be a
teacher. But I was working at a Country
Club and I loved it. All my buddies that I had played

(14:55):
golf with when I was in high school, we were all working at
the same Country Club and they were working in the pro shop,
bouncing balls on a wedge and just standing there and learning
to be the next Tiger Woods. And I was out on the course and
I was laying under trees, we eating with one arm and, and I
but I loved it. And the staff, man, I was by far
the, the youngest guy on staff and, and I loved it.

(15:17):
And they invested a ton in me and they start teaching me how
to mix chemicals and how to change out sprinkler lines and
what this was this and this. And I would roll in and, you
know, just on a weekend, I mean,and being a kid and like, I
would on my way to go hang out in town with my buddies, I would
stop by and punch in and I'd empty all the trash cans and do
this and this and this and just hang out for a few minutes and

(15:37):
work. And I got to just know a bunch
of people and it was a ton of fun.
And, and so I really had plannedon going and being the like
going to golf course maintenanceschool.
The guys that I worked for graduated from at that point in
time, a school out of down around Miami that was one of the
top two or three golf course maintenance schools in the in

(16:00):
the country. And I was going to head down to
Miami, Fort Lauderdale area and I was going to do this and I was
going and that was my thing. I was going to be the head golf
course Superintendent for like Saint Andrews or Augusta or
something like that. And then I ended up in in

(16:21):
ministry and ended up at Liberty.
Not at, not at that. Just.
Basically, golf course. It's golf course.
Maintenance, you just manage allthe things, but I just loved it
and I I really enjoyed that space in life and so yeah, I
mean, it's funny you know how you get through things and you
get to a different space. I I think that the artsy kind of
creative thing, I always growingup in a church that was a very

(16:44):
traditional church, so Southern gospel and quartets and things
like that. And my parents took me to
quartet things and that kind of stuff.
I always thought, man, that would be really cool to like
just to perform and to sing and,and to do all that kind of
stuff. And so I've always had this bent
towards creating type creative type things.

(17:04):
But but yeah, as a kid, I mean, you know, I, I wanted to be the,
the, you know, the next Dale Murphy.
I wanted to be the next, you know, the chipper.
Chipper was probably was much older.
I, I, I'd long given up on that dream by the time it was
chipper. But as a kid, the next Dale
Murphy, Larry Bird, those types of players and things like that
that I just really admired and wanted to do.

(17:26):
And I loved golf and, and all this kind of stuff.
We lived in Alabama, so fishing was just a big bass fishing and
watching all the the tournamentsand things with my dad and, and
going into that kind of stuff. And so, yeah, it was just those
types. So probably a lot like a normal
kid. Yeah.
But then I got to that point where there was like, hey,
here's a real career. Thing is, I got to be in older
high school. I wasn't 34 thinking I could

(17:47):
still replace Magic. I actually kind of went, I mean,
I would really like to because it's for me the most beautiful
thing in the world. And it was so cool.
And it's incredibly creative. And even though it's physical,
if you play golf or if you've ever seen a golf course, like
there's stripes. I've seen one.
Yeah. If you've seen one, if you've
played at golf a time or two, I know like you.

(18:08):
I mean, when you. I don't.
Know if you can call it playing what I do?
When you stand on a tee box and you just see a fairway that's
striped and the like, everythingis just the the traps are raked
perfectly, the pins placed. I mean it's just like this, not
the courses. That I play well, that's the
courses that I've been on. That's not how they how they.

(18:28):
Look, it's just this gorgeous and so like this gorgeous
looking. I just remember showing up being
an 18 year old kid. The ones I play have windmills
and. Towns, yeah, that's not ours.
And showing up at like, I mean, it was pitch black dark and us
getting out there and turning the lights on, on all the
equipment to get ready for thesetournaments that would be coming

(18:50):
in on a on a Friday morning or starting on a Saturday morning.
And we had worked and done and we were changed out of our work
clothes into our golf clothes just standing around the course.
And I just remember standing there one day next to my boss
and guys started walking up and going, man, this place looks
great. And I just saw the look on my
boss's face because I was already feeling it inside of my

(19:10):
heart as well. And I just thought we did that.
Like we created that like that emotion that somebody had.
And I just thought I, I could dothis rest of my life.
And so, yeah, it's just those types of things of, of like when
you were a kid. And again, at 18, I know
technically I was an adult, but I was still a kid.
And I was just trying to figure out some things in life.

(19:30):
And I just thought this would bethe coolest thing in the world.
Yeah. Instead of my time.
Hey, First off, you jinxed us because at the beginning of the
show you said you don't know that we're even getting a
dusting and now we have a Blizzard happening outside.
I think that you live here now. You can't even.
You can't even see the snow. It was coming down so hard a
minute ago. Look, it's all over the porch.

(19:52):
The porch is covered. There's nothing on the road.
So I started writing this episode probably a month ago
when we did our episode on grumpy old men on being grumpy
and that episode peaked some things on.
Now that we're older, what are lessons that we wish we knew

(20:14):
when we were younger? What if we could go back and
tell our younger self things? What would what would we tell
our younger self and if our older self.
Our future self could come back and talk to us now.
What are some of the things thatwe could be be doing to prepare
for our future? And I've struggled through this

(20:36):
episode. I've talked with you a lot.
We've sent it back and forth a couple of times to try to figure
this out. And so that's kind of where
we're going today is what are the lessons that that we wish
that we could learn, that we could teach ourself?
What are the things that as we look at growing older, the

(20:57):
things that we wish that we knewwhen we were younger?
So that's why we're having the conversation about what did you
want to be when you grew up? What did you want to be when you
were younger? What dream did you have when you
were younger that now you look back on and it just makes you
kind of chuckle? I think that, you know, it's so
interesting because life was really different being born in

(21:20):
the 70s and growing up in the 80s.
Like it just, you didn't, we didn't have travel teams as I
was growing up, that kind of thing.
And now every little town has, you know, it's sometimes a
couple of towns, they're so small they have to combine up.
But every town has a travel teamfor like every sport and, and

(21:41):
it's just you in many towns havemultiple teams that compete for
the better players and you see them go up and down the scale
based on who their coach is and what this is.
And so I kind of look back now and and I think that, you know,
I mean, you, you, you and I werejoking earlier about my athletic
skills. But like the things that I can
do is I feel like I still can kind of go out and be

(22:03):
competitive in with people my age and like not not going up
against a bunch of 20 year olds who just graduated, you know,
from from ETSU or something likethat.
They would run me out of the gym.
But I, I think that like this whole moment and thing of just
like really this naivety of likeI could actually make it as a

(22:26):
pro golfer. Like I actually do this whole
thing like, because you just think, ah, you don't see the
bigger scope of the world. Yeah.
Or the people who are even in your area.
That doesn't seem that. Hard.
It you just you hit a ball down a fairway, hit it again and then
if you do it 3 every time, you would be the greatest golfer

(22:47):
ever to play. Yeah, I mean, why?
Why can't you? You would.
Shoot 14 under every round and so you'd be what, 2856 under
after after 4 rounds there's youwould set records at every
course you've ever played. It doesn't seem that hard.
I don't know what you're doing. I don't know why you're not
doing this. And so I think, you know, just
things like that, that I look back and I just go, man.

(23:09):
And even maybe like just just unaware.
Like, did you ever get around somebody and you just went, I
thought I was OK at something. Like I'm actually a decent
vocalist. I'm not winning American Idol
next year. I'm not getting asked to come
fill in if Jon Bon Jovi's voice goes down.

(23:30):
Like I'm not that good of a vocalist.
Would you ever get around somebody in something and you
just go, I'm not good at all? And that was probably a couple
of moments. I got a rant.
I got really got around. Every Wednesday when you and I
record this. Podcast, I get around.
I got around a couple of vocalists and I just went, I'm
not good. Like I'm not terrible and I'm

(23:50):
fine for our church. I'm fine for the spaces that I'm
in and and I'm not nobody's leaving.
I mean, because I'm singing. But like in that point that day,
like the cathedrals or Gold Cityor something like that would
have been these bigger quarters.None of them are calling me if
their guy goes down. I'm not, I'm not that good.

(24:10):
And I just think it was those things of just being kind of
young and going, Hey, people tell me I'm good at this.
I must be good. And you get to be 1214 and you
just go, I'm not good at this. Like I'm going to actually have
to go get a real job and figure something out in life.
So like, I'm interested to hear because we, we make jokes all
the time. You, you were the most insanely

(24:32):
confident person in the world around stuff like like, what was
your thing that you just like there came a point in time and
you just realized, oh man, maybeI'm not good enough to actually
do that. Mine really was basketball that.
And I have played ball with you,ball with you and, and you're
still, I mean, a good player. There's still a ton of talent
there, but. I, I was, I was decent in high

(24:55):
school, played, played with a lot of really good players,
played against a lot of really good players.
And going from my junior year tosenior year, I had some smaller
schools looking at me. I had offers to go play at the
the school. The biggest school was Seattle
Pacific University. That's now AD one school.
They weren't D1 at the time. So I wish that I'd gone because

(25:15):
I could have said I played Division One basketball, even
though I really hadn't at the time.
But I was holding out for major D1.
I wanted to play at UNLV or North Carolina, you know, some,
some big D1 school. And my coach kept telling me,
yeah, you're going to get there.You're going to get there,
you're going to get there. Here's what you need to work on.
Here's what you need to do. And it, it just never happened.

(25:37):
I, I wasn't good enough. And I, it took me until I held
onto that hope really until the end of my senior year that I
thought it's just going to take one person to be there to see us
play at the right time. And it just, it never happened.
Maybe I'm not as good as people have been saying, like you said,

(26:00):
maybe I'm not as good as I thought I was.
Maybe it's time to to create a plan BI didn't have a Plan B and
so it was time to now create a plan BI.
Mean and I and I guess it would be bad to say because you did
have a plan A and you really were pursuing basketball.
So it's not like you had no plan, but like it really.
I mean, the plan was to and, and, and did you ever think

(26:24):
about playing a Milligan? Yeah, that's why I came here.
I came to play at Milligan. I didn't know that.
Yep. I came to play at Milligan.
I just knew that like your dad had connections and different
things with all of that, and so you played it.
I did not play. I did not play.
So the the coach, because I was so late in the game, I had
decided that now my Plan B endedup being going into ministry.

(26:48):
And so I actually in Las Vegas, sat down with people that were
very close to me, my pastor, my youth pastor, another guy on
staff at our church and said, hey, I think that I want to go
into ministry. Where should I go to school?
None of them went to Milligan. Not one of them did.
And all of them said I would go to Milligan in Johnson City, TN.
It just so happened that that's where my mom and dad both

(27:10):
graduated from, my grandparents both graduated from, and two of
my uncles went to. I really wasn't even familiar
with it. And so we reached out to the
basketball coach at Milligan, sent him some tapes and had
several phone calls with him andhe said were were too late in
the game for me to offer you a scholarship.

(27:33):
But come walk on and and then after your first year, if things
go well, then we'll get you on scholarship.
And so that was the plan. And then my GPA and test scores
weren't as high as they needed to be.
So I was going to red shirt my freshman year to get my grades
up and then hopefully earn a scholarship for my next year.

(27:56):
And I did not do great my freshman year at school.
And so I kind of just made the decision that I I, I kind of
decided I I think that I think that I'm done with basketball.
But yeah, that's that's the the main reason that I came here was
to play basketball that million.I didn't know that.
And so like, I guess the interesting thing would be is
like like kind of an unexpected part of your journey, but I

(28:21):
think you would feel like your life is actually better now.
Like what unexpected part in that?
Like what happened inside of that?
It maybe was kind of unexpected that led to a better, what you
would call a better life. That's actually better than if
you would have played four yearsof basketball at Milligan and
maybe ended up being the next coach at Milligan or something

(28:42):
like that. Go coach Rob.
I love that guy, so I'm not looking to get rid of him.
But yeah, I mean, what do you think that changed or something
that might have changed in your life?
I. Think relationships is the
biggest one, that relationships with people.
And I think that the path that it took me down that I was able
to really garner a lot of wisdomfrom the mistakes that that I've

(29:09):
made and see the way that small things can trickle into those
relationships that that you have.
And yeah, so so I think I think if I had to say, you know, what
relationships that that wouldn'thave happened if I played

(29:29):
basketball. I think one of the ones that
first comes to mind is Bruce, that that relationship really
directed and guided so many of the foundational, pivotal
transitional aspects of my life that that I don't know would

(29:49):
have would have happened. And that's the thing that's
always so interesting to me and it's why you and I talk about
and probably privately, I mean, we say it on here as well, but
definitely privately, we talk about community is just so
important. And, and really you and I are
both in a phase where we both have, I mean, we both have
friends, but we're both kind of like I just got a lot going on.

(30:11):
And so I'm pretty good with my wife and my kids.
And if I don't see a whole lot of other people, I'm good.
But we know community is so valuable because it's the same
thing for me. It is.
I was just sitting serving at church and I was always there.
I was always plugged in. And my youth pastor one day
we're running a video room and, and he, he asked me something

(30:34):
and, and my response was probably I asked him some level
of a question of kind of snarkily, like I didn't mean it
mean, but I just said it the wayup. 7/16/17 year old kid would
say it of like, so how'd you getin this youth ministry gig or
this ministry gig? And, and, and he just kind of
laughed going, OK, Robert, I'll,I'll actually answer with some

(30:55):
kindness. And he said it's a calling.
And I said help. And I was like, I don't know
what that means. And he said, well, and he
started to walk through and he said, I actually see some of
these traits in you and maybe it's something and it in this
season of about to like getting applications and wanting to go
to golf course maintenance school.
He said, I'm actually heading upto liberty.

(31:16):
I've got because he was doing hewas doing online.
I say online learning, probably called EDP or something back
then, external degree program and they sent you VHS tapes that
you watched and he was doing EDP.
Could you get those at Blockbuster you?
Could not that would have been awesome.
But he he said I've got to go upand meet with my professors.

(31:41):
Why don't you just ride with me?And so I hopped in the car and
we rode up and we spent a day atLiberty and three weeks, 4 weeks
later, I end up at Liberty University, not in Miami.
And, and, and it was just, it's probably a couple months.
It probably wasn't 3 or 4 weeks.There's no way I'd have been
moving to Miami in three weeks. But like I just kind of got into

(32:05):
the space and, and it was somebody who saw something in me
and, and I'm such a big fan of the I see in you conversations.
And because they, our words carry so much weight.
I mean, you think about it like at the end of the day, God could
have revealed himself and, and show himself to us any way he
wanted to. And he gave us his word like he
gave us the scripture and we getto open that up.

(32:26):
And I just think words matter somuch more than we realize.
And so I, I've, Melissa and I talk and I, I just, I, I, we all
make funny statements to our kids at some point in time,
like, oh, it's a good thing you're pretty.
Or you say something like, and Ijust grew up in a world where
use your head for something besides a hat rack or something
like that. It's like, I always felt dumb,

(32:49):
always didn't feel smart enough,which I was looking at one of
the questions and, and kind of this whole next thought is like,
where do you feel the pressure to be more in today's part of my
life? And it really comes down to I'm
just never smart enough. And, and so, and I always feel
like when I sit down and I startto do the work and I start to do
the things. And so I just realized my words

(33:09):
matter. And so I, I found myself going
to my boys and going, Hey, I said this about you and we were
just being funny. But what I know is my words
probably way more on you than I realize.
And so that's not who God says you are.
It's not who I think you are. And I, I, and so I have, we've

(33:29):
changed. And so we, we try and not just
like positive affirmations, likeI'll speak truth to my kids, but
I don't have to be stupid and I don't have to be mean and
hurtful and sarcastic to them, especially when it comes to
things about their identity, their character and that kind of
stuff. And so, so yeah, for me, it's a
lot of the same thing you said. And I think community is so

(33:51):
important. So who do we wrap ourselves,
wrap around ourselves that that kind of help us become the
people that we need to be and follow and step down the past
that we need to step down? Yeah, and I think that it's
pretty made. That is a Blizzard out there.
You're not going to deny this one.

(34:12):
It's not a Blizzard, but it's selling a lot harder.
But it's pretty anyway you were going to say, I think that.
When we live the life that we didn't dream of, I think that we
find God there. I wonder how many of our
listeners are actually living the life that they dreamed of.

(34:35):
But yet I think that when we getoff of our path and onto God's
path, when we when we let go of our dreams, our hopes and our
dreams and we cling to hope, we put our hope and our faith in
Christ and not in ourselves and what we want to be, that often
we find God there. Yeah, I know.

(34:57):
That's an incredible, Yeah, thatis a really, really, really
incredible thought because I, I don't know.
And, and like, The thing is, I love doing ministry, but I the
like the dreams that I had 30 years ago, if I would have

(35:18):
accomplished those, I wouldn't be where I am right now.
And I love where I'm at in this season.
And the beautiful thing of it is, is I actually still have a
lot of, I mean a lot of dreams. There's I mean, you and I talk a
lot. I mean, like, it's not like I've
got, I mean, it's, it's a, it's a lengthy list.

(35:38):
There's things I'm really passionate about and I want to
step into and I but it's it's stepping into those things with
a different respect almost and approach.
Yeah, and here's the second partof that that that just hit me.
Psalms 37 says delight yourself and the Lord and he will give
you the desires of your heart. And so, so often I think it's

(36:02):
aligning our dreams, aligning our desires with with Christ.
So it's not that. Maybe I want to scratch the
statement I made before that we have our dreams and our hopes.
And when we stop pursuing our dreams and our hopes and just
instead pursue Jesus, that we live a life that we didn't dream

(36:25):
of, but we find God there. Maybe it's if we truly delight
in the Lord, if we truly are pursuing Him, then He gives us
the desires of our hearts. Just maybe, in that pursuit of
Jesus, our desires change from wanting to be a fighter pilot,
from wanting to be an NBA basketball player, to wanting

(36:48):
something different that the thedesires of our heart.
Change. Yeah, it's, I think that's the
that's the hard part about this is how do we, how do we have
patience? Because I'm sure that we have
many, many listeners out there right now that are driving on

(37:10):
their way to a job that they don't love.
It's not what they thought they'd be doing with their life.
We have listeners out there probably that are driving on
their way to or or sitting in a house that looks nothing like
they imagined, that they dreamedof growing up, that their life
doesn't look like what they had hoped for and imagined.

(37:33):
But yet God can change the desires of our hearts if we're
simply just faithful in pursuingHim.
If we find our joy, if we find our delight in Christ, then it
says He will give you the desires of your heart.
But that's not saying that if you delight in the Lord, if you

(37:56):
find your joy in the Lord, that He's going to give you the
Maserati, that he's going to give you the job on Wall Street,
or that he's going to give you that promotion.
But I think maybe if we're trulyin tune with the Holy Spirit in
our life, then the desires of our heart change.
A. 100% And I think that's The thing is that like used to, I

(38:20):
looked at like dreams and ideas and a lot of those dreams and
ideas, like I, I had them because I do think that I had
maybe a gift talent, skill ability inside of that thing.
But it was really about bringingme fame or wealth or some type
of, you know, better situation in my life.

(38:43):
But now I look in, you know, and, and I look at the house we
live in and I go, I like where we live.
I enjoy like, sure, I'd love to have 100 acres and a big, huge
building and all these other things to be able to do this,
this or this. But I like where we live.
I like the being in a community.I like the fact of walking out

(39:05):
and having neighbors. And if I would have gotten all
these other things I wanted at apoint in time that I wanted
them, my life wouldn't be where it is now.
And and so when I dream about things, the dream starts with,
you know, God, how do I honor you?
How do I make disciples? How do I love people well inside
of that space? And so, no, you're 100% right

(39:27):
because the focus is when the focus is, how do I, you know,
you know, love the Lord. He gives you the, you know,
follow the Lord, lean into him and get the desires of your
heart, your desires change. And, and I think it, it keeps us
out of debt. I think it keeps us out of
making bad choices because when our hearts align to him, we
aren't chasing dreams that are selfish and on us.

(39:52):
Now I love what you're saying. I think we should write a book.
You should. No, not not me.
We. I think we should write a book.
It's a we've talked about that, we've got ideas.
Tony Robbins here we come instead of Tony Robbins.
Tony Robert, Tony Robert, Peoplebe like, who's that guy?

(40:13):
It's two guys. What?
How's that work? And so, but really it's.
Overstepping to say, if you're listening to this show right now
and you're saying I'm not happy with where my life is, what I'd
hoped my life would look like looks nothing like it.
And I feel discouraged. I feel disappointed in life.
I feel down that maybe you don'tneed to work harder.

(40:36):
Maybe you don't need to put in more hours at the job.
Maybe you don't need to get a second job.
Maybe you don't need to go back to school.
Maybe you don't need to put in more effort.
Maybe you just need to follow Jesus a little closer.
I'm reading a book by Francis Chan and maybe.
In that you're led to do some ofthose things.

(40:59):
Yeah. But I think so often we put, if
we were to put our our road map to success, our road map to
fulfillment. I don't know how often it starts
with get on my knees. Oh, that's the thing.
I was reading this book by Francis Chan.
I'm reading it with some friendsright now and the chapter today
he said we have, he said if you looked at people and told them,

(41:21):
hey, the church, what do you think from the church?
He said, when I talk to pastors,I do this exercise.
Oh, it needs good music, good children's ministry, good
student ministry. What do you think the Bible says
about church? And they'll start listing the
things in Scripture of oh, here's what Scripture say.
And he's like, if your church was going to fire you over not
doing one of those hands, which one would they fire you over?
And they're like over the one that's not the Bible.

(41:44):
And he said, we have, we have created a problem that we're not
following Jesus, we're followingfame.
We're building churches that andit's not everybody.
And he's not throwing everybody under that bus of of those
things. But I think that's exactly what
you're saying is that maybe we've gotten so focused on us
and, you know, I mean, it's we in a, it's just our society.

(42:06):
Jump on social media. Nobody is posting their worst
day. Yeah, we've talked about that a
lot recently, that that social media sets an impossible bar,
yeah, for us to reach and attain.
And so when we do that in life and, and we look and we want to
measure up to everyone else, we're always going to feel worse

(42:26):
about ourself. There's always going to be
something in the mirror that I don't like.
I'm not spiritual enough. I'm not physically fit enough.
I don't, I'm not mentally strongenough.
I'm not emotionally strong enough.
There's always going to be something that's missing inside
of that. But when when the reflection is
what God says about and we lean into that and we ignore these

(42:47):
other things and we trust. And by the way, I love preaching
these sermons. I hate living them.
This is an easy sermon to preachbecause everyone would go, yeah,
we should do what the Bible says, not what we think.
But it's it's the battle then and the tension of flesh and
that free will love that we havein this, this real battle of

(43:08):
what it looks like to deny ourself, take up the cross and
follow him. Yeah, yeah.
So for me, for you, for our listeners out there that are
struggling with this, what are what are signs, what are habits?
What are things that we can do that show that we're becoming
the right us? I mean, can I say something

(43:31):
super blunt and then you can unpack this smarter.
If the things we do are the things that are in scripture, I
guess. I know that sounds like a jerk,
but like if if we're measuring ourselves and and we're looking
at scripture and we're starting to say, I think scriptures

(43:51):
missed it on that. And I'm not talking about you
and I have some fun theological conversations about you're not
talking about. There's lots of people that it
was, is the Earth 6000 years oldor is it 2 billion years old?
I mean, I'm not talking about, I'm not talking about this.
We're not getting into this likethis is one of the fun things we
don't agree on. And but like, like when people

(44:15):
are going, oh, should I murder someone?
Should I lie today? Is it OK to hate that person?
Like if you're going, I don't know if the Bible cares if I
tell a little white lie like you're wrong.
And like, if you're looking at the scriptures and you're doing
this, like your life will be more aligned and better if you
just do what the Bible says. And and so there's my blunt

(44:38):
statement. Make that pretty for it.
Be a storyteller for a minute. Well, I think that you're
exactly right on that. But I think that so many times
in life we were faced with a fork in the road, a decision to
make in life. And a lot of times, there's a
right answer and there's a wronganswer.
And that's easy to that's easy. But a lot of times there's a

(44:59):
right answer and there's a left answer.
And when there's a right answer and there's a left answer and
both of them align with Scripture, that can be a lot
more difficult, that can be a lot harder.
And so I think that in those, it's important to understand
that God's will isn't rational. God's will is relational.
So I, I talked about, I've said that I know I've said this on

(45:22):
here before, but but maybe I haven't.
But I, I said at church yesterday, one of the
conversations I have with my boys a lot and especially my
oldest is like, I don't know that God cares what you do.
I think he cares that you do it on mission for him.
Like Philippians 2, you know, having the mindset of Jesus,

(45:45):
like, like right before that, donothing else, suffer an agency.
But like, don't be concerned with your own ambitions or
desires. Be concerned with the others,
with others, You know, like I think that we should be
concerned with our own ambitionsto the extent of do they love
God, do we love others, and are we making disciples at the same

(46:07):
time? Relational.
At the same time, I will say Godhas given us gifts, talent,
skills, and abilities that if we're honest about those and the
illustration I used yesterday, Ihave one son incredibly musical.
I have another one that's incredibly like physically like
loves turning wrenches and things like that.
If my son, who's incredibly creative and musical like,

(46:32):
decided to just go be a mechanic, I think he'd be
missing out on how God gifted and skilled him.
But if he was a mechanic on mission, I still think God can
use that. And I think God can use those
things like, and so the bottom line and, and I, I don't know, I
need to find a better analogy ifthis is still just the one I've
got. God wants film makers.

(46:53):
He doesn't want porn makers. You can always take something
that a gift you have and turn itto negative and turn it to
darkness. And and so the reality is, is
that if you, what you're doing is on mission for God, you won't
do the darkness. You won't lean into that side of
it. And I think that's for me to
always, it's always the thing that I just think that God

(47:14):
doesn't care. So when you get one decision is
right, one decision is left, right and wrong should be easy.
And if you go wrong, it's alwayseasy to look back and go, I
chose the wrong fork in the road.
Yeah, right and left and you getway down the road in one
position. It isn't necessarily bad.
You're just now like you, maybe you've hit a tough patch.
Maybe a parent passed away, maybe a kid got, you know,

(47:39):
didn't get into the college thatthey wanted to go to.
Maybe they got cut from a basketball team.
And and you're feeling some hardfeelings and emotions and
struggles and you're kind of looking and going, I chose the
wrong path or my kid would be better.
And now you want to take the blame because you're in a
situation that you can't controlsomething.
Yeah. And guys are just saying, man,
they just continue to trust and lean in to me and, and go from

(48:01):
there. And mine's very black and white.
And you're not always, I mean, like you're not you're, you're
usually pretty black. Some might as well.
You're also sometimes a little kinder than me.
It's you're like, you're storytelling, Tony, and you go
into the spaces and you make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside
and and I'm just not usually that guy.
So looking back on when you wereyounger and you could define

(48:22):
that however you want, you were younger a few hours ago, you
were younger, 30 years was. Younger when this podcast
started. So were all of our guests.
How have your priorities changedfrom your younger days?
I, I think often, and, and this is going to sound stupid, I
mean, especially if like you're listening to this and, and like

(48:45):
faith in Jesus doesn't matter asmuch to you.
If I could go back to like 13 year old me and do anything, I,
I would convince 13 year old me to read the Bible more and
really apply that to my life andto want to follow Jesus to be a
better student, to be not just astudent in school, but be a
better student of the things that Jesus learn to love to

(49:08):
read. Like you can still be athletic
and enjoy to read a book. I, I mean, it's, it's just any
you and I talk and I've said, wesaid this here before.
I, I read a ton and I'm on a pace now of 50 to 60 books a
year, just where I'm reading at at this season of my life.
And I would give anything to go back to younger me and be on a

(49:28):
pace of 24 books a year and justgo, You don't have to play as
many video games and stuff like that.
I think the bigger things I lookat is just where I'm at now as a
husband and a father, a followerof Jesus just even 2 decades
ago, a decade ago. And I just, I love the change

(49:49):
that God's doing in me. And, and I'm just grateful.
I, I think that because of my stupidity and my inability to,
to be more like Jesus in seasons, it's it, it's, I'm sure
it's cost something that that maybe I would have enjoyed, but
I'm really thankful for where I am right now and, and where

(50:11):
God's got me and what he's entrusted me with and, and how I
get to do that. The husband I get to be the
male, the dad I get to be to theboys, you know, trying to be a
better, you know, son-in-law andjust brother uncle.
I mean, there's just things I just wanting to work on and just

(50:31):
the desire to do that is so muchgreater.
And I just love getting to sit and have coffee and
conversations and talk with people about Jesus.
And even in a season of doing this podcast.
I mean, I just, I love these things and I couldn't imagine a
life without that. How's that growth for I mean,

(50:52):
how's that for you? Like when you look back and you
know, what would you go back andtell younger self or what from a
younger self are you really excited about now?
Yeah. For me, I think that the way
that my priorities have changed over the last, I had a major
shift about 10 years ago that really started prioritizing
quality time over quantity of work.

(51:16):
And I've read, I don't remember,I was trying to think in
preparation for this, even this morning, trying to think it was
either Andy Stanley or Irwin McManus that I was reading a
book and they talked about presence over position.
And that was something that was that really hit me that I was so

(51:37):
driven by not popularity, I wouldn't say popularity, but
influence and position and all of that.
And just being present was so much more valuable, so much more
Christ like, just being present in the lives of the people that

(51:59):
matter instead of striving for the greater prosperity and
position. That's a whole lot of peace that
I didn't intend to give. You're almost Baptist there with
that illustration. That's good times, but I think
they're off. On you, I think that those are
are two major shifts that I saw in my life, yeah, probably about
a decade ago is you only have a small amount of time, value the

(52:25):
quality time over the work and be present.
Was it Willard that said the thegreatest threat to living a
Christian life is, is a hurry ishurry?
And and we've we've talked abouton here before, at least for me.
I don't know that you've read Combers book, the Ruthless

(52:47):
elimination of hurry, but like that book was, was radically
transforming in my life. And I, yeah.
And those, those are things for me that I learned through that
through reading and, and listening to to books and
podcasts and, and things I learned a lot through those.
That's how I grow a lot more typically is reading the

(53:10):
scriptures and reading books andre listening to things like
that. And so those things shaped me a
ton. And yeah.
Let's talk. Let's take a quick break, hear
from our show sponsor, and then we come back.
We're going to talk about who we're becoming.
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(53:31):
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(53:53):
All right, so we are back after that quick break and we're going
to kind of shift gears a little bit into who you're becoming
next. We don't just become
accidentally, we become intentionally and we become who
we are becoming with grace, withcuriosity, and of course, driven
by the Holy Spirit. So, Robert, I want to ask you if

(54:16):
if future you sent you a message, what would they thank
you? What would you thank yourself
for starting now? Oh my goodness, I don't think
playing more golf would count it, could I?
I really do think that the discipline of, of reading what

(54:40):
I've invested there, I know I'm saying that a lot, but it is
something. That How long has that been
going on for you? So the shift started.
I mean, the shift started 20 years ago, but it has been up
and down. It's gone from, you know,
probably 5 or 6 books a year to up to close to 20 back down and

(55:05):
up. And, but in these last five
years, it's been something in the last even six months, it's
taking a really big leap as as well.
And so just something of investing in because I mean,
it's, it's, I mean, I understandwe can observe and go, you were

(55:26):
a bad husband today and here's how you could be better.
But I, I tend to think that it'sthrough hearing and reading and
seeing. And again, I'm not just talking
like, like external books, like it's, it's reading the
scriptures. It's a much heavier read for me
right now. With that.
I mean, we went through the journey.

(55:46):
If I did the whole Bible and 90 days back in earlier in the year
and, and things like that, like it's a, it's been something
that's been incredibly impactfulfor me doing that.
And I think that what I have learned in the willingness to
start applying what I'm learningin those things has been
incredible. The only the other big thing I

(56:07):
think I would say is putting, putting people around me who
aren't scared to say hard thingsand being willing to listen to
them. And so I've got a half dozen
people you're in that list that just say hard things.
I mean, and we, we talked about on this like last episode, I
mean, you said something probably two months ago that
Melissa would say, like, I don'tknow what he said because I

(56:29):
never told her. But like what you said sitting
at a Starbucks that day, like challenged me to have to rethink
about some stuff and it's changed everything.
And I think some of the conversations we were talking
about just even in the rhythm oflike work life and stuff like
that and some crazy things and stuff that I'm having to be
really trustful in, some of thathas come from a heart change

(56:52):
over a 2 month period and some other stuff there.
So yeah. So in that you're turning. 50 I
will like a month. Yeah, it's coming up quickly.
The month and 450. You're downhill from here.
I am I I know, and I'm just going to be real blunt there.
There are a lot of times in conversations you don't have a
lot of conversations. We do We we talk at least once a
week, at least when we sit down and do this show, but but

(57:14):
usually much more than that. And there are AI hear a lot out
of you. That man, I wish that I could do
this man, I wish that I could dothis.
You you dream. You have big, big dreams in
relation to what we're talking about today.
What would you? Change about your life.

(57:36):
If you believed, you weren't toolate, you weren't too old.
Time hadn't passed. The opportunity wasn't gone.
That is a really hard question. This is really video because I
feel like I need to talk to fillspace while I'm thinking and

(57:57):
it's hard to think and talk man,if and, and I'm I'm, I'm a lot
like you. I'm I'm like obnoxiously
confident about some things. I think I, I mean, I, I would if

(58:19):
I knew that it wasn't too late. I guess the most common sense
thing is I would start and. You'd start with what?
The just the thing that I would want to stay whatever the thing,
I mean, because like, again, this isn't like one or two
things. I mean, I, I'm, I use my iPad

(58:40):
for our notes and things like that.
And I, I literally have a projects folder that has 16
other folders underneath that that has a whole notes thing
that has another like 20, some individual notes.
And some of those notes are justbook ideas.

(59:03):
And there's a dozen books that like, I'm going, hey, here's
what I would do here. Hey, I would write this or I
would do that, or I would start this or I would be there.
And I mean, I talk about all kinds of creative arts things
and stuff like that and some projects that I would love to
do. And, and so, I mean, it's not
like there's 23510, there's 50. And so I don't know which one I

(59:26):
would start. Like if I was being realistic,
it would be another podcast or it'd be a book because those are
a little easier controlled than going, I want a $20 million
building with, you know, ABC andD in it so that I can do this.
That's that requires a differentlevel of of of of, but I but I

(59:48):
would one, I would start and two, I would, I would, I would,
I would prioritize those things in my life around some places I
waste time. I would probably less
television, less, just less wasted time and stuff so that I

(01:00:14):
can prioritize those things and do it.
I don't know that's that's a hard thing for me because this
is all I think about this stuff too many hours a day and fight
through it in my brain. What about you, I?
Think one of the things that I still struggle with quite a bit
is that for a lot of people, my identity is still tied to things
from the past. And so I'll run into people that

(01:00:36):
I haven't seen in forever and they're still like, Hey, this is
this is my, my, my former pastor.
And it's still that, I mean, I haven't been a full time pastor
in a church for 10 years, almostalmost 10 years, 99 years coming
up on nine years. And that that's still with so
many people that still my identity.
And I think that our identity isnot in who we were.

(01:00:58):
Our identity is in who God is shaping us to become.
And so I get, I don't know that frustrated is the right word
because it's not. I guess there are a lot worse
things that you could be identified as.
But like, I want to be more thanthat.
I want to be defined by more than what I was because I

(01:01:22):
haven't been that for a long, long time.
And it it just makes me think, OK, So what has the last 8-9
years of my life been? If I'm still being identified by
my job title a decade ago, what has the last decade of my life
really been? And so trying to figure out what

(01:01:45):
that next chapter is, what that next chapter looks like, what
and that next chapter that I've been in for years, how do how
does my identify, how does my identity become not what I was,
but what I'm becoming? It's a really good thought and
I'm trying to process is anything that likes on my radar.

(01:02:08):
The things I want to do are those about trying to erase a
previous identity crisis or or or is it about stepping into a a
new beautiful season that God's writing a you know of that part
of my story now. So who is God inviting you to

(01:02:30):
become in this season? I mean, I, I don't, I don't know
that I could say anything to answer that other than, you
know, like I'd quote Matthew 22 and Matthew 28 all the time.
I mean, just to love him well, love others well and be a
disciple that's making disciples.

(01:02:53):
And I know that sounds so cliche, but you know, know my
disciples, if you love one another, I mean, if you love his
brother, you know, lay down yourlife for him.
I'm just, I'm wanting to love God and love others well.
And I think in that there's somethings that I can do like here's
OK, so here's the thing that I said to Mel driving somewhere

(01:03:13):
within the last couple of days. I don't think if if everything I
had right now was taken away andI had to start something, I feel
like my giftedness is down the path and of of what I do that I

(01:03:34):
would always want to be at a bare minimum, equipping people
to follow Jesus. And so if pastoring and
everything I'm doing right now was gone, but I could wake up
tomorrow and do and I had to do something that I would get paid
to do that thing. I would still be teaching.

(01:03:58):
I would still be talking about Jesus, about Scripture, about
those types of things and writing books and all that kind
of stuff. And so those are the things I
would do. And that's just what I would
want. I think that's what, So what
he's calling me into is to love him more deeply, to love others
better. And to be that disciple is
making a disciple. And I know it sounds cliche, but

(01:04:19):
if I woke up tomorrow and I had to start over, I would write
books about following Jesus. I would write books about loving
others. I would do podcasts about how
the things that we consume and what we talk about, does it move
us towards Jesus? Does it move us away from him
and, and all those things that just that's my my whole thing.
And so I'm super intrigued though to hear from you, like

(01:04:42):
because again, I think you thinkmore deeply about this stuff at
times. Yeah, I have.
You've heard me say this before on this show that I have, I've
adopted kind of a mantra that each day my prayer is that I
would love more deeply, serve more selflessly, and live more
courageously. And and so that's, that's who I
want to become. I want to be someone who loves

(01:05:04):
more deeply, serves selflessly, and lives courageously.
Which sounds like you and I are both just, you just found you
just got cooler words. We're both like really just this
desire to love God well and be correct and be bold.
And because that's the hard thing about going and it's just
the that courage that it takes to step out and to do those

(01:05:28):
types of things. And I think that's the big
thing. It's like you said earlier,
somebody's driving listening to this or they're sitting at their
house and it's on to the background.
And you had another podcast playing and you're like, who are
these guys? And you were just so busy
working, you didn't take time tochange it.
I think that's The thing is like, how do you love more
deeply? What's your middle one?

(01:05:50):
Serve selfless. Yeah, serve.
I couldn't get that one in my brain.
How do you serve just, I mean, in the season you're in, how do
you love people, the place you're in?
How do you serve? And what courage does it take
for you to step into those things knowing that it may not?
Because that's the thing, when you love others and you serve

(01:06:10):
others, it may not land the way you think it's going to.
And it's just, it's a risk, but it takes courage to take those
risks and do that. I think that people live their
lives in one of two ways, eithertrying to recapture their past
or trying to run away from theirpast.
And I think that it's important to realize that you're not

(01:06:32):
chasing who you were in life. You're discovering who you're
created to be. And if you live your life trying
to chase down who you were or run away from who you were
instead of focusing on discovering who you're meant to
be and who you're created to be and designed to be, then life's

(01:06:54):
going to slip by pretty quickly.And you're going to live your
life missing out on a lot of great opportunities and probably
a lot of regret. But if we can continuously be
processing and striving at that fork in the road that we face
probably every single day, we face a fork in the road of some

(01:07:15):
capacity, some way that if we can ask those questions that we
talked about earlier that is this right or is it wrong or is
it right or is it left. And if it's right or wrong, then
it's pretty simple which direction to go.
If it's right or left, then asking yourself the question,
where can I have the opportunityto become more of the person

(01:07:37):
that God has created me to be? What dreams am I chasing?
Am I chasing my dreams or am I tracing God's dreams?
I think that it makes life a lotmore joyful, a lot more
purposeful and meaningful. I like it.
So this week I want to challengeour listeners.

(01:07:58):
What's one small thing that you can start today to work towards
becoming who God created you to be?
What's one small thing that you can start today to begin that
journey on becoming who God created you to be.
And remember, you don't have to have the life that you imagined.

(01:08:20):
You just have to have the life that God intended for you to
have. So this week, laugh at the gap
between who you thought you'd beand who you are.
Celebrate the little winds, the tiny habits, the lessons
learned. Then ask yourself, what's one
small thing that I can start today to become who God created

(01:08:40):
me to be? You don't have to have the life
that you imagined to have the life that God intended.
If this episode encouraged you, make sure you follow The Pulpit
and Porch on Facebook, on Instagram, and subscribe
wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.
And while you're at it, why don't you go ahead and share it
with a friend who needs a reminder that growth is a
journey and that it's OK to laugh along the way.

(01:09:03):
We want to thank you for joiningus today on this edition of The
Pulpit and Porch. And we will be back at it again
next week. So until then, we hope that you
live a life full of purpose. And remember that when you come
to that fork in the road, you can go right or you can go left.
Either way, God is there guidingyou and directing you along the
way. Have a great rest of your week.
We'll see you next time here on the porch.