What makes a second marriage stronger than the first? For Tiffany and Craig Cherle, it's building a partnership where each person feels safe to be completely themselves.
In this heartfelt continuation of our conversation, they reveal something surprising about falling in love later in life: it often doesn't match our Hollywood expectations. Craig describes it as "more of a process" where his brain led more than his heart, while Tiffany questioned if she was even "loving right" after realizing her previous relationships confused love with rescue and overcompensation.
Their honesty about navigating relationship differences is refreshing. When Craig bought Tiffany an expensive diamond necklace early in their relationship, she had to find the courage to say it wasn't her style – a moment that revealed how both were learning to communicate authentically rather than just please each other. These small moments built the foundation for something deeper than their past relationships.
The couple shares practical wisdom about creating emotional safety. Craig learned that demanding immediate resolution to conflicts only creates more tension, while Tiffany discovered she could express needs without fear of explosive reactions. Their approach centers on speaking what they want clearly while giving each other space to process difficult conversations.
Perhaps most touching is how they've created genuine intimacy through everyday vulnerability – laughing about bathroom boundaries and learning what real partnership feels like. As Tiffany puts it, "It's not about me, because when you first get married it's like 'me, me, me, what did they do wrong?'" Now they understand it's about growing together while letting each person remain themselves.
Whether you're healing from heartbreak or seeking to strengthen your current relationship, this conversation offers hope that love can be better the second time around when built on maturity, communication, and genuine acceptance.
Do you have a question for our experts? Email us at trishajamisoncoaching@gmail.com! We love hearing from you!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello and welcome to the Q&A Files, the ultimate
health and wellness playground.
I'm your host, tricia Jamieson,a board-certified functional
nutritionist and lifestylepractitioner, ready to lead you
through a world of healthdiscoveries.
Here we dive into a tapestry ofdisease prevention, to
nutrition, exercise, mentalhealth and building strong
relationships, all spiced withdiverse perspectives.
(00:29):
It's not just a podcast, it's acelebration of health, packed
with insights and a twist of fun.
Welcome aboard the Q&A Files,where your questions ignite our
vibrant discussions and lead toa brighter you.
Welcome back, wellness warriors.
We did not know that we weregoing to do a three part series
with Tiffany and Craig Shirley,but we're having so much fun
(00:51):
with them that we could hardlystop.
If you missed part one of thisincredible and very insightful
series with Tiffany and Craig,please go back and listen,
because we uncovered someamazing insights about their
love story, having secondchances and what brought them to
where they are today.
So today, in part two, we'recontinuing this conversation and
diving even deeper into whatmakes this marriage different
(01:13):
from their past relationships,the lessons they've learned and
how they've built a relationshipthat feels safe, strong and
full of love.
And, of course, I'm joined onceagain by my two amazing
co-hosts Dr Jeff, ourboard-certified family physician
, and Tony Overbay, our licensedmarriage and family therapist,
and I'm Trisha Jamieson, yourhost, and, of course, tiffany
(01:34):
and Craig Shirley.
We're so excited to have youback.
You shared so much wisdom withus last time and today we're
going even deeper, so let'scontinue this conversation.
What surprised you most aboutfalling in love again?
Speaker 2 (01:47):
You know what, when you're young and you fall in
love, it's like fireworks andstars and all this other stuff,
this awe.
This was more of a process forme, it was more of an
understanding, and I think mybrain led more than my heart.
But then, all of a sudden, Icouldn't stop thinking about her
(02:10):
.
All of a sudden, it was this,that and uh, and it was more of
a slow progression with somefear.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
So you're peeling away the onion layers to get to
your heart, so to speak.
Yeah, that's a good way to putit, yeah and so.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
But yeah, it took me a few months, you know, and I'm
the first one to say I love you,I'll own that, you know, and
but I also was more ready and itjust kept growing from there,
right Foundation and the loveand so forth.
Speaker 4 (02:47):
I think anybody going through like oh sorry, jeff.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Go ahead.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
Well, I just say anybody that is going through
this, that's going to, I think,really resonate, because I do
hear so many people say in newrelationships I don't feel the
fireworks and I want to jumpright in and say, okay, that is
Hollywood, that is actually the.
They said the right things tomake you feel it and that's more
of a visceral reaction and Idon't think that's necessarily
(03:11):
healthy in the long run.
So I like the slow burn concept.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Well, slow burn is a good way to put it.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Did you feel like that?
You needed more time to testfor safety for yourself, to make
sure that this person wasn'tgoing to step on your heart like
maybe had happened to you inthe past?
Speaker 5 (03:31):
Yeah, I would say for me not just safety as much as,
yeah, safety.
The other was even knowing if Iwas loving right.
That's interesting.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Oh, tell me more about that.
I was loving right, that'sinteresting.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Oh, tell me more about that.
What does loving right looklike that is love.
Speaker 5 (03:49):
And we'd ask this like what is love?
Because for me, love was rescue, love was covering Love was,
you know, doing more, trying toprove myself like overly
compensating for the lack ofwhat was in the relationship.
So I'd say I don't know if I'mfeeling love, like if I'm
falling in love.
I mean, I enjoy being with you,I enjoy this.
(04:09):
We work great together, youknow, and I'd say I love you,
you know, but I don't know ifthat in love, because it doesn't
feel like this over the topspark right, like you feel like
you're young and you just like,oh, I'm going to go into this.
And now there's so much withhold, hold back fear and going Kyle,
I really do get along greatwith this guy.
(04:30):
We can have conversations.
He's not blowing up, he's notpilling out.
You know, like I'm in.
The comparison comes in, butI'm like is that love?
Or what is love Like, how am Iloving you?
Am I loving you the way youwant to be loved?
Am I showing up how you want tobe me to show up?
And then it's like this is me,though.
This is how I show up.
I'm a giver and so and Craig'sa giver and so he's always doing
(04:53):
these little spontaneous things, buying stuff and and then
having to return them.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
He bought me this diamond necklace oh my, oh, my
goodness.
Speaker 5 (05:05):
And I looked at it and I was like how am I going to
be myself?
He's giving me this diamondnecklace that hangs way down and
I'm a pretty conservativeperson with that and I'm like
this is his way of showing Icare about you, right For me.
I'm like to me, this is what doI owe him?
now oh but what do I have togive him now to receive this
necklace?
And this is really blingy and Idon't want it to be like, oh,
who gave that to you?
Who gave that to you?
(05:25):
You know, like now it's apossession thing.
So all this stuff goes throughmy head and a lot of it.
So I just looked over and Ilooked over at him and I says I
just said, craig, I can't acceptthis.
And his heart was broken becausehe said my previous marriage
she would have me take backeverything.
She never liked anything.
I says it has nothing to dowith me not liking it.
It's just not me and I have tobe honest with you because it
(05:48):
would sit in a box, yeah goodfor you, so that was really hard
for him.
He's like, oh, and he had totake it back to the store.
So I really had to process whatlove was and, honestly, like I
fell in love with Craig, but itwas a short over little things.
You, you know, like I knew wecould work well together.
There wasn't going to beblowups, we could just and he
wasn't oh, you did that to hurtme all the time, you know kind
(06:10):
of thing.
And so we'd really look at itand so it's like, okay, this is
a healthy love.
But it doesn't feel like I'm inlove because I'm not chasing it
, I'm not begging for it, I'mnot proving myself, and so
completely different.
So the moment he asked me tomarry him, I was like I can do
this.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
I love this.
I love this.
So what else has this marriagefelt different from your
previous ones?
Wow?
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
I told you she has deep questions.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
All right, yeah, no, it's a lot of first, last time
babe, your turn.
There's a lot of first.
Speaker 5 (06:43):
Last time, babe, your turn there's a lot of
difference oh, there's so manyyeah, it's, but yet there's a
lot of similarities.
He'll say stuff and it triggersme like I'm going oh you know
I'm going to panic so he'll saysomething or do something like
oh, that's exactly what happenedthere before.
So the time we spend together,I've never fallen asleep in
(07:04):
someone's arms and so just itwas always never felt
comfortable, like we cuddle andthen we go other side of the
beds.
Now I'm falling asleep witharms and I call him his anaconda
squeeze and I'm like I'm out,right, I've got myself snoring
and waking myself up.
I've never snored or wokemyself up before oh wow.
Deep sleep, you know, and so.
(07:25):
I'm like okay, I'm comfortable,like it's okay, you know.
And so, yeah, having aconversation, and I still do
this like I don't say thingsthat I want to say because I
know it could hurt.
And so sometimes I'm like, okay, I have to really process it.
Craig told me really early inour relationship Well, when we
(07:45):
started dating, he's like maybeyou need to listen more and talk
less.
How'd that go?
So often when he's talking tome, I just listen.
He's like are you going to saysomething?
I'm listening more and talkingless.
And he's like, okay, and I evensaid that in our wedding vows
like he can go on and I'm like,and I'll have the stomach and
(08:06):
the feelings.
And then I got to process it.
I got to say this isn't thekid's dad, this is a different
relationship, right, so I gothrough all this.
So he, he's very caring, he'svery loving.
When he gets up, he getssomething for me and I don't
have to ask.
He doesn't expect if he doessomething nice.
He's like oh, what is it in forme now?
(08:28):
What do I get to receive?
Right, he shows up and he, heshows up and that's a huge thing
, it's not.
Oh well, you're doing this,you're doing this for your
family, you're doing this and hedoesn't sit back and feel like
you have all this going, I, Idon't matter, you know, and that
is huge, and that just didn'thappen in the long run of my
(08:48):
previous marriage.
It happened from day one.
So and I didn't know, you know,so I didn't know any better.
I didn't know any better becauseI was raised in craziness.
I was raised in excuse the termhell.
I never wanted to raise my kidsin hell and I had a mom who was
married 12 times, sevendifferent men, eight kids so two
(09:11):
different dads.
So it was moving and changingand men and in and out, and so I
was like I never want to gothrough that Right, and so I
worked my hardest never to putmy kids through that.
In the term that I also covereda lot of stuff up and buried a
lot of stuff.
So you sacrificed yourself inorder to maintain that goal of
(09:32):
not having your kids have to gothrough that A hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Yeah, I did the same thing, yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
So, craig, what have you learned about yourself in
this relationship that youdidn't realize before?
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Oh, what have I learned about myself?
Oh, there's so much Um you knowwhat.
Speaker 5 (09:50):
That he's freaking attractive.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Yeah, you know what, I have a lot to give right, and
I just need to be myself, youknow, and I need to not let
things when there's things thatmay be that needs a discussion,
there's a time and place for it,but we need to have those
discussions right.
And communication is soimportant.
(10:14):
Communication and maybe Ididn't do as good of a job
before, right, I would shut down, you know, and I don't want
that.
I don't want that to wheremaybe I over communicate.
Now to compensate for it, I, Iwant us to to be on the same
page and and I understand thatwe're not always going to agree
on things, but let's have and Iunderstand that we're not always
(10:35):
going to agree on things, butlet's have that communication.
And and that's one of the thingsfor me and with Tiffany is like
she's got patience, she gotpatience, you know, with me.
I've got patience with her.
That was one of those thingsfor the foundation for me, and
we've been able to work throughthings.
I'm paying attention more.
You know, like she touched onit just a second ago, there are
(10:58):
maybe some tough topics that todiscuss that Tiffany's not ready
to discuss, and what I've, whatI've noticed about her is she
needs to get away from thesituation, and then she's able
to talk about the next day.
So I've learned to be patientto wait to have those
conversations the next day.
So I've learned to be patientto wait to have those
conversations the next day.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
So that, right there, if I can just say, though, the
fact, craig, that you're aware,now, okay, I need to have the
conversations, not not playsmall or ignore my feelings, but
then it's okay.
If then Tiffany is, can hearthem but needs time to process,
cause I think that so often wesee that, no, we need to have
this now, is usually one personsaying I need to feel better
about it right now, and I'm not.
It's regardless of how you feelabout it 100%.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
And so it was one of these things where for me and
I'm that type of person it'slike we got to resolve this now,
we got to resolve this now, butyou know, over this last year
it's I need to step back and,whether I like it or not, you
know, just allow her to havetime to process and then have
that conversation.
What I've learned from it is,if I would have pushed it that
(12:05):
night, what have you?
It's it doesn't work.
It really we don't.
We don't get anythingaccomplished.
We just go spend, we're ahamster on a wheel right and
maybe feelings get hurt, andthen it just elevates it Always
when we have that conversationthe next day, so much better.
Our emotions are down and it'stime to process.
(12:26):
And so, oh, productive was theword that I was looking for,
right, if we would have did itthat night, it wouldn't have
been as productive.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
Which, which the fact you're aware of that, craig.
I love it because so manypeople will, and I go gender
stereotype.
The guy will say we're going tohash it out, and then that
pathologically kind spouse willeventually say, no, you're right
To get rid of that discomfort.
Guy thinks he's right, and thenthe wife continually feels
unheard and at some point what'sthe point of her trying to
communicate.
But I love that.
Tiffany, though, even if you'resaying I need time to process,
(12:54):
then you, you are coming back toprocess and cause, I think a
lot of times people will saygive me some space or time and
then, uh, then we get out ofthat conversation, but then we
don't want to go back to itbecause that's where the wife
won't feel safe.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Coming back to the you know, the husband, if, if
the pattern has been, it doesn'tmatter Now, it'll just be more
of the same when I come back, soI've admired the way you're
both handling this, yeah, sothis, this is a great lead into
the next question, and this isfor Tiffany how did your past
experiences with emotionalimmaturity shape the way you
approached this relationship?
Speaker 5 (13:28):
Allowing someone to speak and hear them, instead of
instantly feeling triggered, youknow, like, oh, that's their
experience, oh, that's whatthey've had.
Craig and I had this thismorning and I just got to listen
to him but I'm like thathappened in the previous
marriage too.
I do understand he's like no,listen to me, this is what I'm
saying.
(13:48):
That I went through and I'mlike I do.
I understand, you know itdidn't seem like I was listening
, but I had heard the same thingbefore in the marriage and so,
but yet those were his feelingsand that's what he was trying to
overcome at that time.
And and I says, I was the sameperson at that time but I had to
work through a lot of stuff.
(14:08):
So the previous trauma stuff,that's what you're asking.
Right, remind me of thequestion now.
Yeah, emotional, emotionalemotional maturity yeah.
Yeah, to be able to come inemotionally mature, like to look
at myself and say how am Iprocessing this?
Can I process it?
Sometimes I just say I don'twant to talk about it, just drop
(14:31):
it right now, you know, likeit's not going anywhere and I
have to go, instead of going tothe instant protecting myself
mode, to be able to lean in andlisten Thank you, tony, for that
Words way back when lean in andlisten.
Lean in, you know lean in, soyeah.
Yeah so yeah, it's like I needto lean in.
So it's like right now I'm not,I can't lean in, because
(14:59):
there's so much of the traumastuff that I have to work to it,
because otherwise I'm going tosay something that I'm going to
regret or that it's going tohurt you.
So I've had to look at myselfand become a mature person too,
because when you feel alwaystriggered or that they're going
to come back at, or you're notheard or they're not heard, I'm
giving it both sides or they'renot heard, or how each of us
feel right.
Then it comes back that that isnever resolved and it keeps on
coming back never.
(15:21):
There's never feeling of safety,there's never feeling of being
heard, there's never feeling of,hey, this is how I feel right
now and yeah, okay and Okay.
And sometimes I'll say I don'tunderstand, I'm not there, I'm
not you, you know, but I'mlistening and that's all I can
offer, you know.
And so being able to do that itjust brings a relationship into
(15:43):
a different place.
And I could have said thatbefore, but because of a lot of
resentment and triggers thatyou're like oh, they're not
listening, they're not doingthat.
So now I have to like withmyself mentally say he's
listening, he's present, andthen go, okay, and I do a lot of
breathing, like I'll breathe inhold for five seconds, breathe
(16:04):
out for seven, bring it down andreally just know that my
feelings are my feelings,they're not Craig's, my feelings
they're not Craig's.
And so to become a mature personfrom the immature person of
fighting and battling and allthat stuff you know, like fight
or flight, constant fight orflight, like I don't have to
flight and Craig has told methat fight.
And I'm like don't tell me tofight, I don't want to fight, I
(16:26):
want it to be a solution.
I don't want, I hate the nowwhenever it's like fight or
flight, it's like I'm a flightperson, I don't want to resolve
it, I just want it to go away.
You know, just blanket it, done, done.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
But I love how you're building it.
In the pause, though, and thatand that I'm I'm a person who
needs to process as well, and soI can relate to the need for
that, because otherwise I'mgoing to fight.
Yeah, I'm a I'm going to fight.
Speaker 5 (16:51):
I'm a fighter, not a flighter, most of the time, and
so I used to be a major fighterand I still can be that, so yeah
.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
Yeah.
So I just appreciate how you'rebuilding in the pause for
yourself to be able to giveyourself some time to go.
Okay, now, what do I reallywant here?
How do I really want to respond?
How do I want to show up?
I love that.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
I will say this.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
The space in between is uncomfortable, absolutely
really.
What do we do with thatdiscomfort, right?
Speaker 2 (17:18):
you have to learn to sit with that discomfort yeah,
talk into that a little bit moreyeah, you know what um tiffany
touched on triggers and there'sa lot of triggers.
You know that each of us havehad to kind of work through from
previous.
But having that space to letthem process, you know, all
those fears of your history justcome through like how is this
(17:39):
going to play out?
What's going to happen, what?
What is she thinking?
Did I share my thoughtsaccurately, you know?
You know just all this doubt,just kind of like am I enough,
you know, is this going to workout with, I mean, our, our
dating and everything wasfantastic.
But we were, we were reallyreal with each other, you know.
(18:03):
And so we we've had a few timesthroughout where we've we've
had these like conversations andeven in our marriage it's you's
been a couple times where it'slike we need that space between,
but it's uncomfortable souncomfortable it's it's
uncomfortable.
But I go back to what I saidbefore.
Had I hammered away and said wegot to figure it today, today,
(18:25):
today, it wouldn't have beenproductive.
It wouldn't have beenproductive and we would have
like said things that we didn'tmean and and then you start
building up those.
I said, you said resentment,but you start building up these
little things.
In a new relationship like this, it'll take a long time for
that to like move itself out.
Right, you don't want that, wedon't want that.
So anyway, I'm getting used tobeing uncomfortable.
Speaker 4 (18:50):
Well, that's where, I do think, craig, that's where
the building, that emotionalsafety, and I will say that I
think that is the the masculinepresence of being able to
provide that emotional, thatsafety so that she can be, in
her healthy, feminine you know,uh, radiant, expressive and plus
, yeah, I'm a fixer, I thinkmotor fixers right, yeah, oh
(19:11):
yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
I want well, whatever might be pictures, but I'm a
fixer.
It's like what's the problem?
Let me fix it.
Let me just fix it.
Sometimes she just wants to beheard.
Speaker 5 (19:18):
He gets an answer for everything.
I tell him you have an answerfor everything.
Just let it be, it's okay, I'mokay.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
It's not without the nail, you don't.
Speaker 5 (19:32):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Yeah, okay, so what's been the most healing or
surprising part of being witheach other?
I mean kind of talked aboutsome of those challenges, but
now what's the most healing partof being with each other?
Speaker 2 (19:46):
You know what for me?
I'll speak for me.
I just like the similarities inhow I feel when I'm around her.
I just I'm so comfortable and Inever felt that before.
I was just like she gets me, Iget her, and again I'm gonna go
back to that foundation right.
How, how we're able to go inevery single day when we're
(20:07):
whether we're just texting orwe're out or something like that
I see stuff that I absolutelylove and that fills my cup,
right, you hear about thefilling your cup and stuff like
that, and so I love it, Iabsolutely love it.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
I love being with Tiffany.
Well, she's a keeper.
I think you are too.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Thank you.
Thank you, we laugh a lot, butI mean we also can go and we can
work, like I mentioned earlier,and just we own a yogurt place
and we would go in there and noteven say a couple of words to
each other, but just knock out abunch of work and it was just
like so fulfilling, it wasawesome.
I didn't have to worry abouther critiquing me, it's just so
(20:46):
comfortable.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
So, comfortable.
By the way way for people whocan't see the this couple while
we are speaking, and maybe youcan see this on the youtube
channel when you have a second,but just watching the way they
look at each other is justreally super very endearing yeah
, it's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
We love it.
Speaker 5 (21:05):
That's so great one of my things with my things for
Craig and I, is that I'm notworried about being attacked or
him feeling like if I dosomething he's less of you know,
and so that's one of thebiggest things for me.
I laugh, because they were morelike private, you and your
(21:26):
previous marriage.
For me it was like you neversaw each other go to the
bathroom, like walked in on eachother or anything.
I'm like, okay, we got tochange that, like you got to be
comfortable with each other andhe's just like he's like what do
you mean?
and I'm like you never go intothe bathroom when she's gone to
the bathroom.
No, I'm like what?
How is this possible?
Like you live in the same house.
You see each other unclothed,you know, naked.
(21:49):
How do you never see each othergo in the bathroom?
What if you only had onebathroom?
We'd wait.
I'm just like, okay, we got tochange some of this, you got to
be comfortable with each other,you know.
I mean, obviously there's doortime, exactly.
Speaker 4 (21:59):
But that's where Craig asked Tiffany to marry him
was on the toilet, right.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
That's the unknown story good thing he didn't know
this before, right he knelt infront of the throne and yeah,
yeah, that's right.
Speaker 5 (22:12):
For the most part, I'd like sit down and go to the
bathroom on our honeymoon.
He's like, okay, this is howit's going to be.
I'm like I told you getcomfortable with it.
If you're getting ready, I'mgoing to go with you.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Oh, that is great.
Speaker 5 (22:22):
Good, for you Get comfortable with each other.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
boundaries or communication tools have you put
in place to create a healthierdynamic this time around?
Speaker 5 (22:33):
To speak what we want , okay.
You know, to really say what wewant, and if I don't like
something, I say it like I'm notgoing to.
This isn't a go for me.
You know, like before.
So we learn each other morequickly than I think.
When you're younger, you kindof just learn a pattern because
you don't know what you do ordon't like.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Now it's like this is a no-go, like I won't have this
and so yeah yeah, I'm gonnaactually kind of like piggyback
off of that and just say I thinkagain it's we're both givers,
right, yeah, and so, and kind ofpleasers in a little bit of a
sense.
So like, when it comes to thecommunication and this is
something we vetted out early,like when we were just getting
(23:15):
to know each other is we werejust gonna be open and honest
with each other.
Now we've had to apologize forhurting each other's feelings,
right, don't get me wrong, but Iwould much rather her, I would
much rather tiffany be open andhonest with me, which I I didn't
have before, and that.
And let me, let me take thatinformation and do what I can
with that information, right, asopposed to me trying to like
(23:37):
figure it out and trying tofigure out what is she trying to
say.
And so for me, my approach isjust to be that person, right,
and let Tiffany take myinformation and do what she
wants with it, right.
And yeah, there's been somefeelings that have been hurt
from time to time.
Speaker 5 (23:53):
Right, mostly by me.
I heard his phone yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
But I've already cried like three times on here.
Speaker 5 (23:59):
Right.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
So anyway, but I mean , that's one of the things I
told myself before I evenstarted dating is I, this is
what I want my relationship?
And I think it's actually.
I mean, it's helped us to be alot stronger and closer, and
then it also helps us to feelthat we're both coming from a
good place, that our intentionsare to love each other up, no
(24:21):
matter what the communication is, whatever we're sharing.
And so I feel safe.
When Tiffany shares somethingwith me that maybe she doesn't
like, maybe it's a critique, I'mnot going to blow up, I'm going
to, I'm going to marinate in itand I'm going to be like okay,
but then she'll hear me out too.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
So that's good, that's excellent.
So, tony, what suggestionswould you give our listeners
about boundaries andcommunication tools that they
can implement?
Speaker 4 (24:47):
Well they, they teed it up so well too, because I
think that even it sounds rightat times where we say things
like well, I didn't want you tofeel bad, well, give me a chance
to know if I will feel bad ornot, and if I do feel bad, that
is a me thing, so then I canexplore why I feel bad about
what you were saying.
And I think that's the part wetalk so much on here about
differentiation, and I love mybeloved four pillars.
(25:07):
We're assuming good intentionsand I'm not going to tell the
other person that they are wrongabout how they feel.
I can't.
Then that will lead me intoquestions.
Tell me more and then, likeTiffany was saying earlier, I'm
going to stay present.
So now I give that person afull chance to be heard, and I
think that that's trying toestablish this pattern of
hearing each other first and Ithink you guys have spoken to it
so well today is that when wearen't trying to, when the goal
(25:30):
isn't just to be heard, usuallyit's to resolve, and somebody is
going to just acquiesce or givein if we're trying to resolve
everything right away.
And I think that's where yousee the unhealthy pattern,
because it's almost whoever ismore bold or has the louder
voice or you know, or the personthat is overly kind or feels
like their job is to caretakethat then they're not going to
speak their mind.
The other person is going tothink that everything's fine, we
(25:52):
got the conversation over rightnow, and that's the pattern I
see over decades, where then itjust it's just unhealthy.
So you guys are starting offwith this so well of, yeah, I'm
going to say a thing, and it'sprobably easier now to assume
that, all right, there's areason why they're saying the
thing.
They're not trying to hurt me,now, it's how I react to.
It's a me thing, but I feelsafe enough to express that or
(26:13):
explore that.
So that's that's what I like.
What to answer that question,trisha, is uh, I do think a good
bound, you know, get boundaryversus ultimatum.
Ultimatum is you can't do that,but and that's a challenge
especially to the immature oh,yes, I can, but then, uh,
boundary is hey, if you're goingto do that, then then I'm going
to do this.
If you're going to yell that,then then I'm going to do this.
If you're going to yell at me,for example, then I'm going to,
I'm going to walk out of theroom.
But then when you take those,those are hard boundaries, I
(26:35):
think.
You know, I don't think a guyshould ever scream and yell or
punch a hole in something, orit's like no, just that's no,
not at all.
But then if I'm going to saysomething and the other person
is going to take it the wrongway wrong way, take it a certain
way, I still want to be able tosay it.
But I want to understand.
But I want to understand howyou are taking it, cause I, like
what Craig said, I'll take it,I'll take the feedback back and
(26:55):
marinate in it, cause if it'ssomething that I and I think I
said this last week I want, Iwant everybody to start from
this place of 90% solid 10% isbecause I want to be the best me
.
But that doesn't mean that thatI'm going to always say, okay,
I'll do what you, you need me todo.
And it's funny because ifsomebody is in a unhealthy
(27:18):
relationship, they're going tohear that and almost feel like,
okay, so I'm not allowed tostate my opinion, or.
But I mean, you guys are doingthis so well.
I'm really impressed, yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
So, so glad to have them on.
All right, I have one lastquestion, and it's what's
something you appreciate abouteach other that younger couples
might take for granted?
Speaker 2 (27:41):
That's very good, it's a really good one, I had a
couple of thoughts going throughmy head.
It's not just enough to justsay I love you, right, I mean,
there's work involved with it.
There's.
It's.
It's an actionable thing and itcan go down just so many
different rabbit holes, what I'mabout to say.
(28:02):
But it's like in anything, ineverything with your life, like
when, when I was young and I'mjust speaking about Craig, right
it was like, oh, I love you,and then everything's going to
be fine, All this other stuffand you know, speak about Craig,
right it was like, oh, I loveyou and then everything's gonna
be fine.
All this other stuff, and, youknow, not a lot of work and all
this other stuff, it's notenough.
Now it's kind of like, okay,you know, I love Tiffany, right,
but I also want to be the bestperson I can be for her.
(28:23):
I want to do this and that andstuff like that, and I want to
work on things if I need to workon things, and so there's a lot
more action involved with itthat maybe I just didn't
recognize when I was young.
Speaker 5 (28:32):
For me it's the fear of when you first are married.
I think you're such a pleaserand want the marriage to work
out so much that now we eachhave a voice and it's like we
get to be heard right and youget to be true to yourself.
I think often when you're youngyou don't even know really who
you are or what you want whenyou go in there, and then all of
(28:52):
a sudden those patterns arecreated as you're married and
you're growing and you've you'vetwo have probably experienced
this that you kind of conform toeach other and you get to know
who you are with that person.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
No.
Speaker 5 (29:07):
And then, all of a sudden, you're by yourself and
you start to learn like, oh, Iam this person that I was before
, but it's different and I canbe dynamic, I can be sad, I can
have all these emotions, but andnot worry every day that the
other person isn't going to likeme or whatever.
So I think when you're firstmarried, you worry so much about
the other person and how theyfeel and not that I'm saying you
(29:29):
shouldn't, but you show up asyourself and you learn to just
love each other for themselves.
You know like, oh, some daysCraig's going to be more quiet,
some days Tiffany's going to bemore quiet, some days you know,
like we can't express ourselvesin a certain way, that we want
to, or whatever, and you justlearn.
You've already learned becauseyou've experienced so much of it
that you're not learning asyou're growing those things, but
(29:52):
you're still learning becauseyou're still learning about the
other person.
You're still learning aboutyourself, but how you interact
with each other.
And it's not about me, becausewhen you first get married it's
like oh, me, me, me, me.
What did they do wrong?
You know, I think that's, andyou instantly go to what the
other person did wrong?
As far as for us, it's.
I'm going to listen and it'sokay that we both have a
(30:13):
different opinion, a differentfeeling, different views, when
before it was always trying toconvince or make the other
person you want to feel how Iwant to feel.
You need to have all the samegoals I have.
You need to have all the sameactivities.
You know, you, you both growtrying to make that.
Then, all of a sudden, someonestarts running and you're like
I'm not running, well, you'renot interested in me running
Cause you're not running withright.
(30:33):
When you're younger, that's howyou feel they should want to do
the same thing you want to do.
And now for us, I don't likedoing everything that Craig
likes to do, but I like to do alot of things that Craig likes
to do, so I think that's beingokay with that, being okay with
that, yeah, being totally okaywith that.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
And me being okay with the fact that she doesn't
Exactly.
Speaker 5 (30:51):
So I think that's the big difference between getting
married when you're younger.
You're growing together, tryingto figure out what you like,
trying different things, andwe've tried a lot of things, but
I'm still willing to try lotsof things.
I picked a pickleball in thelast four years and I love it
and I love playing with Craig,you know.
And so there's just differentthings that I never thought I
could hit a ball and stuff, youknow.
So just growing and learningabout yourself, but also letting
(31:14):
the other person grow at theirpace too.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Yeah, I just yeah.
That's a really good question,trish, in a sense, as I'm just
thinking.
You know, there's, I think,when I was younger too, I had
this idea of like, oh, I gottaget married, I got this, I got
right, and stuff like that, andso I overlooked a lot of things,
(31:37):
maybe not to say red flags, butmaybe things that I probably
should have vetted out better,and I didn't.
Now where I am today, I vettedthem out.
And so patience and just reallykind of being open-minded and
just kind of paying attentionand asking questions I wish I
would have done more of that.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
There are so many different pressures when you're
younger, though, that you don'tunderstand.
There's the sexual tension atfirst that's incredible.
That kind of misdirects yourway of thinking and trying to
make good decisions, because itjust is overwhelming when you're
younger.
I think also that there's somewhat's that?
Speaker 5 (32:17):
It feels that way when you're dating and stuff,
because you come in twodifferent.
When you're dating, like, youwant to know someone else's
sexual, where they're at rightvalues and how they see it
before you marry them too, andhopefully people are truthful,
because there's the hot andheavy and then there's the real,
really, where you are at yeah,exactly, and I think that
(32:38):
there's also another and heavy.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
And then there's the real, really where you are at.
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
And I think that there's also another dynamic
that we don't kind of look atuntil much later, and that's the
power dynamic in the couple,Because sometimes you know,
there's an assumption that thepower dynamic is, you know, one
person's sort of in charge andthe other person's subservient,
(33:02):
and that maybe you grew up in asituation like that, and so it
makes it so that it's verydifficult to unwind some of
those dynamics and you've got tolearn how to do that.
What I'm seeing now, especiallyin you two and then as Tricia
and I have grown in ourrelationship, is making sure
(33:23):
that power dynamic is an equalpartnership.
And that you know that one voteyes and one vote no means no,
and making sure that youunderstand.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
It hasn't always been that way.
No it hasn't, and it's okay,yeah, that you understand.
Speaker 3 (33:39):
It hasn't always been that way.
No, it hasn't, and it's okay.
Yeah, and to be okay with thatand be able to go okay, well,
then we have some more work todo before we can move forward on
a particular topic.
Yeah, and a building in thatpause.
I love that.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Yeah, you know I actually just asked a question
earlier and one of the thingswith Tiffany and I that I
learned that I didn't learn whenI was younger.
But I think it's important forme and this is I'm just speaking
about Craig that we both havethe same type of energy.
Right, she's not pulling mealong, I'm not pulling her along
.
We match energy and in thismarriage, I think that's part of
(34:15):
that whole comfort.
It's been fantastic.
Speaker 5 (34:17):
A good partnership.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
This, this good partnership.
This partnership I mean eventhe dating and stuff like that.
I mean, I paid a lot ofattention to it and others have
noticed it.
You know when her family is hey, craig, are you ever going to
be able to keep up with her?
Hey, be careful, Are you goingto be able to keep up with her?
My response has always been youneed to be worried about her
keeping up with me.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Oh, there you go, there you go, that's awesome If
you back it up.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
I mean, we have the same type of energy when we go
into a room.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
I mean, one of us may be up or down depending on the
day, right?
And I didn't think about thatwhen I was 20, 23 years old,
right?
Speaker 3 (34:57):
Well, that comes with experience.
I mean, you don't really knowwhat you don't know back when
you were 20.
You think you know everything,but you haven't got a clue.
100%.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Yeah, 100%.
Speaker 5 (35:08):
This has been fun.
Thank you, you guys.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Well, this is so awesome, Tiffany and Craig, this
conversation has beenabsolutely fantastic.
Your story is filled withwisdom, humor and so much heart,
and we're learning so much fromthe both of you and there's so
much more to even uncover and weknow this conversation will
resonate deeply with so many ofour listeners.
If you're listening andthinking, this is exactly what
(35:31):
so-and-so needs to hear.
Please share this episode withthem.
It might just give them thehope and inspiration they need
to see that a new beginning ispossible.
In part three, we're going togo deep into the challenges and
joys of blending families,navigating tricky family
dynamics with exes, kids andextended family, and what it
(35:51):
really looks like to start freshlater in life and build a life
together.
But before we go, I need tospeak directly to the couples
out there who feel like they areat a crossroads, the ones who
are exhausted, frustrated andwondering if there's anything
left to fight for in theirmarriage.
Maybe you're having the samearguments over and over.
Maybe the distance between youfeels too wide to close.
(36:13):
Maybe you're feeling more likeroommates than partners.
If any of that sounds familiar,please take a moment and listen
.
Your story isn't over and yourmarriage doesn't have to end
this way.
I know how it feels to hit rockbottom in a marriage.
After 37 years of my ownstruggles, I've taken everything
I've learned the tools, thebreakthroughs, the hard-earned
(36:34):
wisdom and created my HealingHearts coaching program.
This isn't just anothermarriage program.
This is a lifeline for coupleswho feel like they have nothing
left, but still want to believein the possibility of something
better.
If you're ready to fight foryour marriage, I want to fight
alongside you.
Let's rebuild, reconnect,recreate something stronger than
(36:56):
ever before.
If this interests you, pleaseemail me at
trishajamesoncoaching atgmailcom to learn more.
If you're enjoying thisconversation, please hit
subscribe.
Please leave us a review andshare this episode with your
friends and family, and if youhave any questions you'd like to
answer in our future episodes,please send them to
trishajamesoncoaching atgmailcom, and we'll be back soon
with more from Tiffany andCraig.
(37:17):
See you in part three.
Thanks everyone.
Bye-bye, bye, everybody.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
Everybody Appreciate you.
Bye-bye.
Thanks for tuning into the Q&AFiles, delighted to share
today's gems of wisdom with you.
Your questions light up ourshow, fueling the engaging
dialogues that make ourcommunity extra special.
Keep sending your questions totrishajamesoncoaching at
gmailcom.
Your curiosity is our compass.
(37:42):
Please hit, subscribe, spreadthe word and let's grow the
circle of insight and communitytogether.
I'm Trisha Jameson, signing off.
Stay curious, keep thriving andkeep smiling, and I'll catch
you on the next episode.
Hello and welcome to the Q&A Files, the ultimate
health and wellness playground.
I'm your host, tricia Jamieson,a board-certified functional
nutritionist and lifestylepractitioner, ready to lead you
through a world of healthdiscoveries.
Here we dive into a tapestry ofdisease prevention, to
nutrition, exercise, mentalhealth and building strong
relationships, all spiced withdiverse perspectives.
(00:29):
It's not just a podcast, it's acelebration of health, packed
with insights and a twist of fun.
Welcome aboard the Q&A Files,where your questions ignite our
vibrant discussions and lead toa brighter you.
Welcome back, wellness warriors.
We did not know that we weregoing to do a three part series
with Tiffany and Craig Shirley,but we're having so much fun
(00:51):
with them that we could hardlystop.
If you missed part one of thisincredible and very insightful
series with Tiffany and Craig,please go back and listen,
because we uncovered someamazing insights about their
love story, having secondchances and what brought them to
where they are today.
So today, in part two, we'recontinuing this conversation and
diving even deeper into whatmakes this marriage different
(01:13):
from their past relationships,the lessons they've learned and
how they've built a relationshipthat feels safe, strong and
full of love.
And, of course, I'm joined onceagain by my two amazing
co-hosts Dr Jeff, ourboard-certified family physician
, and Tony Overbay, our licensedmarriage and family therapist,
and I'm Trisha Jamieson, yourhost, and, of course, tiffany
(01:34):
and Craig Shirley.
We're so excited to have youback.
You shared so much wisdom withus last time and today we're
going even deeper, so let'scontinue this conversation.
What surprised you most aboutfalling in love again?
Speaker 2 (01:47):
You know what, when you're young and you fall in
love, it's like fireworks andstars and all this other stuff,
this awe.
This was more of a process forme, it was more of an
understanding, and I think mybrain led more than my heart.
But then, all of a sudden, Icouldn't stop thinking about her
(02:10):
.
All of a sudden, it was this,that and uh, and it was more of
a slow progression with somefear.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
So you're peeling away the onion layers to get to
your heart, so to speak.
Yeah, that's a good way to putit, yeah and so.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
But yeah, it took me a few months, you know, and I'm
the first one to say I love you,I'll own that, you know, and
but I also was more ready and itjust kept growing from there,
right Foundation and the loveand so forth.
Speaker 4 (02:47):
I think anybody going through like oh sorry, jeff.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Go ahead.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
Well, I just say anybody that is going through
this, that's going to, I think,really resonate, because I do
hear so many people say in newrelationships I don't feel the
fireworks and I want to jumpright in and say, okay, that is
Hollywood, that is actually the.
They said the right things tomake you feel it and that's more
of a visceral reaction and Idon't think that's necessarily
(03:11):
healthy in the long run.
So I like the slow burn concept.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Well, slow burn is a good way to put it.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Did you feel like that?
You needed more time to testfor safety for yourself, to make
sure that this person wasn'tgoing to step on your heart like
maybe had happened to you inthe past?
Speaker 5 (03:31):
Yeah, I would say for me not just safety as much as,
yeah, safety.
The other was even knowing if Iwas loving right.
That's interesting.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Oh, tell me more about that.
I was loving right, that'sinteresting.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Oh, tell me more about that.
What does loving right looklike that is love.
Speaker 5 (03:49):
And we'd ask this like what is love?
Because for me, love was rescue, love was covering Love was,
you know, doing more, trying toprove myself like overly
compensating for the lack ofwhat was in the relationship.
So I'd say I don't know if I'mfeeling love, like if I'm
falling in love.
I mean, I enjoy being with you,I enjoy this.
(04:09):
We work great together, youknow, and I'd say I love you,
you know, but I don't know ifthat in love, because it doesn't
feel like this over the topspark right, like you feel like
you're young and you just like,oh, I'm going to go into this.
And now there's so much withhold, hold back fear and going Kyle,
I really do get along greatwith this guy.
(04:30):
We can have conversations.
He's not blowing up, he's notpilling out.
You know, like I'm in.
The comparison comes in, butI'm like is that love?
Or what is love Like, how am Iloving you?
Am I loving you the way youwant to be loved?
Am I showing up how you want tobe me to show up?
And then it's like this is me,though.
This is how I show up.
I'm a giver and so and Craig'sa giver and so he's always doing
(04:53):
these little spontaneous things, buying stuff and and then
having to return them.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
He bought me this diamond necklace oh my, oh, my
goodness.
Speaker 5 (05:05):
And I looked at it and I was like how am I going to
be myself?
He's giving me this diamondnecklace that hangs way down and
I'm a pretty conservativeperson with that and I'm like
this is his way of showing Icare about you, right For me.
I'm like to me, this is what doI owe him?
now oh but what do I have togive him now to receive this
necklace?
And this is really blingy and Idon't want it to be like, oh,
who gave that to you?
Who gave that to you?
(05:25):
You know, like now it's apossession thing.
So all this stuff goes throughmy head and a lot of it.
So I just looked over and Ilooked over at him and I says I
just said, craig, I can't acceptthis.
And his heart was broken becausehe said my previous marriage
she would have me take backeverything.
She never liked anything.
I says it has nothing to dowith me not liking it.
It's just not me and I have tobe honest with you because it
(05:48):
would sit in a box, yeah goodfor you, so that was really hard
for him.
He's like, oh, and he had totake it back to the store.
So I really had to process whatlove was and, honestly, like I
fell in love with Craig, but itwas a short over little things.
You, you know, like I knew wecould work well together.
There wasn't going to beblowups, we could just and he
wasn't oh, you did that to hurtme all the time, you know kind
(06:10):
of thing.
And so we'd really look at itand so it's like, okay, this is
a healthy love.
But it doesn't feel like I'm inlove because I'm not chasing it
, I'm not begging for it, I'mnot proving myself, and so
completely different.
So the moment he asked me tomarry him, I was like I can do
this.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
I love this.
I love this.
So what else has this marriagefelt different from your
previous ones?
Wow?
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
I told you she has deep questions.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
All right, yeah, no, it's a lot of first, last time
babe, your turn.
There's a lot of first.
Speaker 5 (06:43):
Last time, babe, your turn there's a lot of
difference oh, there's so manyyeah, it's, but yet there's a
lot of similarities.
He'll say stuff and it triggersme like I'm going oh you know
I'm going to panic so he'll saysomething or do something like
oh, that's exactly what happenedthere before.
So the time we spend together,I've never fallen asleep in
(07:04):
someone's arms and so just itwas always never felt
comfortable, like we cuddle andthen we go other side of the
beds.
Now I'm falling asleep witharms and I call him his anaconda
squeeze and I'm like I'm out,right, I've got myself snoring
and waking myself up.
I've never snored or wokemyself up before oh wow.
Deep sleep, you know, and so.
(07:25):
I'm like okay, I'm comfortable,like it's okay, you know.
And so, yeah, having aconversation, and I still do
this like I don't say thingsthat I want to say because I
know it could hurt.
And so sometimes I'm like, okay, I have to really process it.
Craig told me really early inour relationship Well, when we
(07:45):
started dating, he's like maybeyou need to listen more and talk
less.
How'd that go?
So often when he's talking tome, I just listen.
He's like are you going to saysomething?
I'm listening more and talkingless.
And he's like, okay, and I evensaid that in our wedding vows
like he can go on and I'm like,and I'll have the stomach and
(08:06):
the feelings.
And then I got to process it.
I got to say this isn't thekid's dad, this is a different
relationship, right, so I gothrough all this.
So he, he's very caring, he'svery loving.
When he gets up, he getssomething for me and I don't
have to ask.
He doesn't expect if he doessomething nice.
He's like oh, what is it in forme now?
(08:28):
What do I get to receive?
Right, he shows up and he, heshows up and that's a huge thing
, it's not.
Oh well, you're doing this,you're doing this for your
family, you're doing this and hedoesn't sit back and feel like
you have all this going, I, Idon't matter, you know, and that
is huge, and that just didn'thappen in the long run of my
(08:48):
previous marriage.
It happened from day one.
So and I didn't know, you know,so I didn't know any better.
I didn't know any better becauseI was raised in craziness.
I was raised in excuse the termhell.
I never wanted to raise my kidsin hell and I had a mom who was
married 12 times, sevendifferent men, eight kids so two
(09:11):
different dads.
So it was moving and changingand men and in and out, and so I
was like I never want to gothrough that Right, and so I
worked my hardest never to putmy kids through that.
In the term that I also covereda lot of stuff up and buried a
lot of stuff.
So you sacrificed yourself inorder to maintain that goal of
(09:32):
not having your kids have to gothrough that A hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Yeah, I did the same thing, yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
So, craig, what have you learned about yourself in
this relationship that youdidn't realize before?
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Oh, what have I learned about myself?
Oh, there's so much Um you knowwhat.
Speaker 5 (09:50):
That he's freaking attractive.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Yeah, you know what, I have a lot to give right, and
I just need to be myself, youknow, and I need to not let
things when there's things thatmay be that needs a discussion,
there's a time and place for it,but we need to have those
discussions right.
And communication is soimportant.
(10:14):
Communication and maybe Ididn't do as good of a job
before, right, I would shut down, you know, and I don't want
that.
I don't want that to wheremaybe I over communicate.
Now to compensate for it, I, Iwant us to to be on the same
page and and I understand thatwe're not always going to agree
on things, but let's have and Iunderstand that we're not always
(10:35):
going to agree on things, butlet's have that communication.
And and that's one of the thingsfor me and with Tiffany is like
she's got patience, she gotpatience, you know, with me.
I've got patience with her.
That was one of those thingsfor the foundation for me, and
we've been able to work throughthings.
I'm paying attention more.
You know, like she touched onit just a second ago, there are
(10:58):
maybe some tough topics that todiscuss that Tiffany's not ready
to discuss, and what I've, whatI've noticed about her is she
needs to get away from thesituation, and then she's able
to talk about the next day.
So I've learned to be patientto wait to have those
conversations the next day.
So I've learned to be patientto wait to have those
conversations the next day.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
So that, right there, if I can just say, though, the
fact, craig, that you're aware,now, okay, I need to have the
conversations, not not playsmall or ignore my feelings, but
then it's okay.
If then Tiffany is, can hearthem but needs time to process,
cause I think that so often wesee that, no, we need to have
this now, is usually one personsaying I need to feel better
about it right now, and I'm not.
It's regardless of how you feelabout it 100%.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
And so it was one of these things where for me and
I'm that type of person it'slike we got to resolve this now,
we got to resolve this now, butyou know, over this last year
it's I need to step back and,whether I like it or not, you
know, just allow her to havetime to process and then have
that conversation.
What I've learned from it is,if I would have pushed it that
(12:05):
night, what have you?
It's it doesn't work.
It really we don't.
We don't get anythingaccomplished.
We just go spend, we're ahamster on a wheel right and
maybe feelings get hurt, andthen it just elevates it Always
when we have that conversationthe next day, so much better.
Our emotions are down and it'stime to process.
(12:26):
And so, oh, productive was theword that I was looking for,
right, if we would have did itthat night, it wouldn't have
been as productive.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
Which, which the fact you're aware of that, craig.
I love it because so manypeople will, and I go gender
stereotype.
The guy will say we're going tohash it out, and then that
pathologically kind spouse willeventually say, no, you're right
To get rid of that discomfort.
Guy thinks he's right, and thenthe wife continually feels
unheard and at some point what'sthe point of her trying to
communicate.
But I love that.
Tiffany, though, even if you'resaying I need time to process,
(12:54):
then you, you are coming back toprocess and cause, I think a
lot of times people will saygive me some space or time and
then, uh, then we get out ofthat conversation, but then we
don't want to go back to itbecause that's where the wife
won't feel safe.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Coming back to the you know, the husband, if, if
the pattern has been, it doesn'tmatter Now, it'll just be more
of the same when I come back, soI've admired the way you're
both handling this, yeah, sothis, this is a great lead into
the next question, and this isfor Tiffany how did your past
experiences with emotionalimmaturity shape the way you
approached this relationship?
Speaker 5 (13:28):
Allowing someone to speak and hear them, instead of
instantly feeling triggered, youknow, like, oh, that's their
experience, oh, that's whatthey've had.
Craig and I had this thismorning and I just got to listen
to him but I'm like thathappened in the previous
marriage too.
I do understand he's like no,listen to me, this is what I'm
saying.
(13:48):
That I went through and I'mlike I do.
I understand, you know itdidn't seem like I was listening
, but I had heard the same thingbefore in the marriage and so,
but yet those were his feelingsand that's what he was trying to
overcome at that time.
And and I says, I was the sameperson at that time but I had to
work through a lot of stuff.
(14:08):
So the previous trauma stuff,that's what you're asking.
Right, remind me of thequestion now.
Yeah, emotional, emotionalemotional maturity yeah.
Yeah, to be able to come inemotionally mature, like to look
at myself and say how am Iprocessing this?
Can I process it?
Sometimes I just say I don'twant to talk about it, just drop
(14:31):
it right now, you know, likeit's not going anywhere and I
have to go, instead of going tothe instant protecting myself
mode, to be able to lean in andlisten Thank you, tony, for that
Words way back when lean in andlisten.
Lean in, you know lean in, soyeah.
Yeah so yeah, it's like I needto lean in.
So it's like right now I'm not,I can't lean in, because
(14:59):
there's so much of the traumastuff that I have to work to it,
because otherwise I'm going tosay something that I'm going to
regret or that it's going tohurt you.
So I've had to look at myselfand become a mature person too,
because when you feel alwaystriggered or that they're going
to come back at, or you're notheard or they're not heard, I'm
giving it both sides or they'renot heard, or how each of us
feel right.
Then it comes back that that isnever resolved and it keeps on
coming back never.
(15:21):
There's never feeling of safety,there's never feeling of being
heard, there's never feeling of,hey, this is how I feel right
now and yeah, okay and Okay.
And sometimes I'll say I don'tunderstand, I'm not there, I'm
not you, you know, but I'mlistening and that's all I can
offer, you know.
And so being able to do that itjust brings a relationship into
(15:43):
a different place.
And I could have said thatbefore, but because of a lot of
resentment and triggers thatyou're like oh, they're not
listening, they're not doingthat.
So now I have to like withmyself mentally say he's
listening, he's present, andthen go, okay, and I do a lot of
breathing, like I'll breathe inhold for five seconds, breathe
(16:04):
out for seven, bring it down andreally just know that my
feelings are my feelings,they're not Craig's, my feelings
they're not Craig's.
And so to become a mature personfrom the immature person of
fighting and battling and allthat stuff you know, like fight
or flight, constant fight orflight, like I don't have to
flight and Craig has told methat fight.
And I'm like don't tell me tofight, I don't want to fight, I
(16:26):
want it to be a solution.
I don't want, I hate the nowwhenever it's like fight or
flight, it's like I'm a flightperson, I don't want to resolve
it, I just want it to go away.
You know, just blanket it, done, done.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
But I love how you're building it.
In the pause, though, and thatand that I'm I'm a person who
needs to process as well, and soI can relate to the need for
that, because otherwise I'mgoing to fight.
Yeah, I'm a I'm going to fight.
Speaker 5 (16:51):
I'm a fighter, not a flighter, most of the time, and
so I used to be a major fighterand I still can be that, so yeah
.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
Yeah.
So I just appreciate how you'rebuilding in the pause for
yourself to be able to giveyourself some time to go.
Okay, now, what do I reallywant here?
How do I really want to respond?
How do I want to show up?
I love that.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
I will say this.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
The space in between is uncomfortable, absolutely
really.
What do we do with thatdiscomfort, right?
Speaker 2 (17:18):
you have to learn to sit with that discomfort yeah,
talk into that a little bit moreyeah, you know what um tiffany
touched on triggers and there'sa lot of triggers.
You know that each of us havehad to kind of work through from
previous.
But having that space to letthem process, you know, all
those fears of your history justcome through like how is this
(17:39):
going to play out?
What's going to happen, what?
What is she thinking?
Did I share my thoughtsaccurately, you know?
You know just all this doubt,just kind of like am I enough,
you know, is this going to workout with, I mean, our, our
dating and everything wasfantastic.
But we were, we were reallyreal with each other, you know.
(18:03):
And so we we've had a few timesthroughout where we've we've
had these like conversations andeven in our marriage it's you's
been a couple times where it'slike we need that space between,
but it's uncomfortable souncomfortable it's it's
uncomfortable.
But I go back to what I saidbefore.
Had I hammered away and said wegot to figure it today, today,
(18:25):
today, it wouldn't have beenproductive.
It wouldn't have beenproductive and we would have
like said things that we didn'tmean and and then you start
building up those.
I said, you said resentment,but you start building up these
little things.
In a new relationship like this, it'll take a long time for
that to like move itself out.
Right, you don't want that, wedon't want that.
So anyway, I'm getting used tobeing uncomfortable.
Speaker 4 (18:50):
Well, that's where, I do think, craig, that's where
the building, that emotionalsafety, and I will say that I
think that is the the masculinepresence of being able to
provide that emotional, thatsafety so that she can be, in
her healthy, feminine you know,uh, radiant, expressive and plus
, yeah, I'm a fixer, I thinkmotor fixers right, yeah, oh
(19:11):
yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
I want well, whatever might be pictures, but I'm a
fixer.
It's like what's the problem?
Let me fix it.
Let me just fix it.
Sometimes she just wants to beheard.
Speaker 5 (19:18):
He gets an answer for everything.
I tell him you have an answerfor everything.
Just let it be, it's okay, I'mokay.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
It's not without the nail, you don't.
Speaker 5 (19:32):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Yeah, okay, so what's been the most healing or
surprising part of being witheach other?
I mean kind of talked aboutsome of those challenges, but
now what's the most healing partof being with each other?
Speaker 2 (19:46):
You know what for me?
I'll speak for me.
I just like the similarities inhow I feel when I'm around her.
I just I'm so comfortable and Inever felt that before.
I was just like she gets me, Iget her, and again I'm gonna go
back to that foundation right.
How, how we're able to go inevery single day when we're
(20:07):
whether we're just texting orwe're out or something like that
I see stuff that I absolutelylove and that fills my cup,
right, you hear about thefilling your cup and stuff like
that, and so I love it, Iabsolutely love it.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
I love being with Tiffany.
Well, she's a keeper.
I think you are too.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Thank you.
Thank you, we laugh a lot, butI mean we also can go and we can
work, like I mentioned earlier,and just we own a yogurt place
and we would go in there and noteven say a couple of words to
each other, but just knock out abunch of work and it was just
like so fulfilling, it wasawesome.
I didn't have to worry abouther critiquing me, it's just so
(20:46):
comfortable.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
So, comfortable.
By the way way for people whocan't see the this couple while
we are speaking, and maybe youcan see this on the youtube
channel when you have a second,but just watching the way they
look at each other is justreally super very endearing yeah
, it's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
We love it.
Speaker 5 (21:05):
That's so great one of my things with my things for
Craig and I, is that I'm notworried about being attacked or
him feeling like if I dosomething he's less of you know,
and so that's one of thebiggest things for me.
I laugh, because they were morelike private, you and your
(21:26):
previous marriage.
For me it was like you neversaw each other go to the
bathroom, like walked in on eachother or anything.
I'm like, okay, we got tochange that, like you got to be
comfortable with each other andhe's just like he's like what do
you mean?
and I'm like you never go intothe bathroom when she's gone to
the bathroom.
No, I'm like what?
How is this possible?
Like you live in the same house.
You see each other unclothed,you know, naked.
(21:49):
How do you never see each othergo in the bathroom?
What if you only had onebathroom?
We'd wait.
I'm just like, okay, we got tochange some of this, you got to
be comfortable with each other,you know.
I mean, obviously there's doortime, exactly.
Speaker 4 (21:59):
But that's where Craig asked Tiffany to marry him
was on the toilet, right.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
That's the unknown story good thing he didn't know
this before, right he knelt infront of the throne and yeah,
yeah, that's right.
Speaker 5 (22:12):
For the most part, I'd like sit down and go to the
bathroom on our honeymoon.
He's like, okay, this is howit's going to be.
I'm like I told you getcomfortable with it.
If you're getting ready, I'mgoing to go with you.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Oh, that is great.
Speaker 5 (22:22):
Good, for you Get comfortable with each other.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
boundaries or communication tools have you put
in place to create a healthierdynamic this time around?
Speaker 5 (22:33):
To speak what we want , okay.
You know, to really say what wewant, and if I don't like
something, I say it like I'm notgoing to.
This isn't a go for me.
You know, like before.
So we learn each other morequickly than I think.
When you're younger, you kindof just learn a pattern because
you don't know what you do ordon't like.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Now it's like this is a no-go, like I won't have this
and so yeah yeah, I'm gonnaactually kind of like piggyback
off of that and just say I thinkagain it's we're both givers,
right, yeah, and so, and kind ofpleasers in a little bit of a
sense.
So like, when it comes to thecommunication and this is
something we vetted out early,like when we were just getting
(23:15):
to know each other is we werejust gonna be open and honest
with each other.
Now we've had to apologize forhurting each other's feelings,
right, don't get me wrong, but Iwould much rather her, I would
much rather tiffany be open andhonest with me, which I I didn't
have before, and that.
And let me, let me take thatinformation and do what I can
with that information, right, asopposed to me trying to like
(23:37):
figure it out and trying tofigure out what is she trying to
say.
And so for me, my approach isjust to be that person, right,
and let Tiffany take myinformation and do what she
wants with it, right.
And yeah, there's been somefeelings that have been hurt
from time to time.
Speaker 5 (23:53):
Right, mostly by me.
I heard his phone yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
But I've already cried like three times on here.
Speaker 5 (23:59):
Right.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
So anyway, but I mean , that's one of the things I
told myself before I evenstarted dating is I, this is
what I want my relationship?
And I think it's actually.
I mean, it's helped us to be alot stronger and closer, and
then it also helps us to feelthat we're both coming from a
good place, that our intentionsare to love each other up, no
(24:21):
matter what the communication is, whatever we're sharing.
And so I feel safe.
When Tiffany shares somethingwith me that maybe she doesn't
like, maybe it's a critique, I'mnot going to blow up, I'm going
to, I'm going to marinate in itand I'm going to be like okay,
but then she'll hear me out too.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
So that's good, that's excellent.
So, tony, what suggestionswould you give our listeners
about boundaries andcommunication tools that they
can implement?
Speaker 4 (24:47):
Well they, they teed it up so well too, because I
think that even it sounds rightat times where we say things
like well, I didn't want you tofeel bad, well, give me a chance
to know if I will feel bad ornot, and if I do feel bad, that
is a me thing, so then I canexplore why I feel bad about
what you were saying.
And I think that's the part wetalk so much on here about
differentiation, and I love mybeloved four pillars.
(25:07):
We're assuming good intentionsand I'm not going to tell the
other person that they are wrongabout how they feel.
I can't.
Then that will lead me intoquestions.
Tell me more and then, likeTiffany was saying earlier, I'm
going to stay present.
So now I give that person afull chance to be heard, and I
think that that's trying toestablish this pattern of
hearing each other first and Ithink you guys have spoken to it
so well today is that when wearen't trying to, when the goal
(25:30):
isn't just to be heard, usuallyit's to resolve, and somebody is
going to just acquiesce or givein if we're trying to resolve
everything right away.
And I think that's where yousee the unhealthy pattern,
because it's almost whoever ismore bold or has the louder
voice or you know, or the personthat is overly kind or feels
like their job is to caretakethat then they're not going to
speak their mind.
The other person is going tothink that everything's fine, we
(25:52):
got the conversation over rightnow, and that's the pattern I
see over decades, where then itjust it's just unhealthy.
So you guys are starting offwith this so well of, yeah, I'm
going to say a thing, and it'sprobably easier now to assume
that, all right, there's areason why they're saying the
thing.
They're not trying to hurt me,now, it's how I react to.
It's a me thing, but I feelsafe enough to express that or
(26:13):
explore that.
So that's that's what I like.
What to answer that question,trisha, is uh, I do think a good
bound, you know, get boundaryversus ultimatum.
Ultimatum is you can't do that,but and that's a challenge
especially to the immature oh,yes, I can, but then, uh,
boundary is hey, if you're goingto do that, then then I'm going
to do this.
If you're going to yell that,then then I'm going to do this.
If you're going to yell at me,for example, then I'm going to,
I'm going to walk out of theroom.
But then when you take those,those are hard boundaries, I
(26:35):
think.
You know, I don't think a guyshould ever scream and yell or
punch a hole in something, orit's like no, just that's no,
not at all.
But then if I'm going to saysomething and the other person
is going to take it the wrongway wrong way, take it a certain
way, I still want to be able tosay it.
But I want to understand.
But I want to understand howyou are taking it, cause I, like
what Craig said, I'll take it,I'll take the feedback back and
(26:55):
marinate in it, cause if it'ssomething that I and I think I
said this last week I want, Iwant everybody to start from
this place of 90% solid 10% isbecause I want to be the best me
.
But that doesn't mean that thatI'm going to always say, okay,
I'll do what you, you need me todo.
And it's funny because ifsomebody is in a unhealthy
(27:18):
relationship, they're going tohear that and almost feel like,
okay, so I'm not allowed tostate my opinion, or.
But I mean, you guys are doingthis so well.
I'm really impressed, yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
So, so glad to have them on.
All right, I have one lastquestion, and it's what's
something you appreciate abouteach other that younger couples
might take for granted?
Speaker 2 (27:41):
That's very good, it's a really good one, I had a
couple of thoughts going throughmy head.
It's not just enough to justsay I love you, right, I mean,
there's work involved with it.
There's.
It's.
It's an actionable thing and itcan go down just so many
different rabbit holes, what I'mabout to say.
(28:02):
But it's like in anything, ineverything with your life, like
when, when I was young and I'mjust speaking about Craig, right
it was like, oh, I love you,and then everything's going to
be fine, All this other stuffand you know, speak about Craig,
right it was like, oh, I loveyou and then everything's gonna
be fine.
All this other stuff, and, youknow, not a lot of work and all
this other stuff, it's notenough.
Now it's kind of like, okay,you know, I love Tiffany, right,
but I also want to be the bestperson I can be for her.
(28:23):
I want to do this and that andstuff like that, and I want to
work on things if I need to workon things, and so there's a lot
more action involved with itthat maybe I just didn't
recognize when I was young.
Speaker 5 (28:32):
For me it's the fear of when you first are married.
I think you're such a pleaserand want the marriage to work
out so much that now we eachhave a voice and it's like we
get to be heard right and youget to be true to yourself.
I think often when you're youngyou don't even know really who
you are or what you want whenyou go in there, and then all of
(28:52):
a sudden those patterns arecreated as you're married and
you're growing and you've you'vetwo have probably experienced
this that you kind of conform toeach other and you get to know
who you are with that person.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
No.
Speaker 5 (29:07):
And then, all of a sudden, you're by yourself and
you start to learn like, oh, Iam this person that I was before
, but it's different and I canbe dynamic, I can be sad, I can
have all these emotions, but andnot worry every day that the
other person isn't going to likeme or whatever.
So I think when you're firstmarried, you worry so much about
the other person and how theyfeel and not that I'm saying you
(29:29):
shouldn't, but you show up asyourself and you learn to just
love each other for themselves.
You know like, oh, some daysCraig's going to be more quiet,
some days Tiffany's going to bemore quiet, some days you know,
like we can't express ourselvesin a certain way, that we want
to, or whatever, and you justlearn.
You've already learned becauseyou've experienced so much of it
that you're not learning asyou're growing those things, but
(29:52):
you're still learning becauseyou're still learning about the
other person.
You're still learning aboutyourself, but how you interact
with each other.
And it's not about me, becausewhen you first get married it's
like oh, me, me, me, me.
What did they do wrong?
You know, I think that's, andyou instantly go to what the
other person did wrong?
As far as for us, it's.
I'm going to listen and it'sokay that we both have a
(30:13):
different opinion, a differentfeeling, different views, when
before it was always trying toconvince or make the other
person you want to feel how Iwant to feel.
You need to have all the samegoals I have.
You need to have all the sameactivities.
You know, you, you both growtrying to make that.
Then, all of a sudden, someonestarts running and you're like
I'm not running, well, you'renot interested in me running
Cause you're not running withright.
(30:33):
When you're younger, that's howyou feel they should want to do
the same thing you want to do.
And now for us, I don't likedoing everything that Craig
likes to do, but I like to do alot of things that Craig likes
to do, so I think that's beingokay with that, being okay with
that, yeah, being totally okaywith that.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
And me being okay with the fact that she doesn't
Exactly.
Speaker 5 (30:51):
So I think that's the big difference between getting
married when you're younger.
You're growing together, tryingto figure out what you like,
trying different things, andwe've tried a lot of things, but
I'm still willing to try lotsof things.
I picked a pickleball in thelast four years and I love it
and I love playing with Craig,you know.
And so there's just differentthings that I never thought I
could hit a ball and stuff, youknow.
So just growing and learningabout yourself, but also letting
(31:14):
the other person grow at theirpace too.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Yeah, I just yeah.
That's a really good question,trish, in a sense, as I'm just
thinking.
You know, there's, I think,when I was younger too, I had
this idea of like, oh, I gottaget married, I got this, I got
right, and stuff like that, andso I overlooked a lot of things,
(31:37):
maybe not to say red flags, butmaybe things that I probably
should have vetted out better,and I didn't.
Now where I am today, I vettedthem out.
And so patience and just reallykind of being open-minded and
just kind of paying attentionand asking questions I wish I
would have done more of that.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
There are so many different pressures when you're
younger, though, that you don'tunderstand.
There's the sexual tension atfirst that's incredible.
That kind of misdirects yourway of thinking and trying to
make good decisions, because itjust is overwhelming when you're
younger.
I think also that there's somewhat's that?
Speaker 5 (32:17):
It feels that way when you're dating and stuff,
because you come in twodifferent.
When you're dating, like, youwant to know someone else's
sexual, where they're at rightvalues and how they see it
before you marry them too, andhopefully people are truthful,
because there's the hot andheavy and then there's the real,
really, where you are at yeah,exactly, and I think that
(32:38):
there's also another and heavy.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
And then there's the real, really where you are at.
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
And I think that there's also another dynamic
that we don't kind of look atuntil much later, and that's the
power dynamic in the couple,Because sometimes you know,
there's an assumption that thepower dynamic is, you know, one
person's sort of in charge andthe other person's subservient,
(33:02):
and that maybe you grew up in asituation like that, and so it
makes it so that it's verydifficult to unwind some of
those dynamics and you've got tolearn how to do that.
What I'm seeing now, especiallyin you two and then as Tricia
and I have grown in ourrelationship, is making sure
(33:23):
that power dynamic is an equalpartnership.
And that you know that one voteyes and one vote no means no,
and making sure that youunderstand.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
It hasn't always been that way.
No it hasn't, and it's okay,yeah, that you understand.
Speaker 3 (33:39):
It hasn't always been that way.
No, it hasn't, and it's okay.
Yeah, and to be okay with thatand be able to go okay, well,
then we have some more work todo before we can move forward on
a particular topic.
Yeah, and a building in thatpause.
I love that.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Yeah, you know I actually just asked a question
earlier and one of the thingswith Tiffany and I that I
learned that I didn't learn whenI was younger.
But I think it's important forme and this is I'm just speaking
about Craig that we both havethe same type of energy.
Right, she's not pulling mealong, I'm not pulling her along
.
We match energy and in thismarriage, I think that's part of
(34:15):
that whole comfort.
It's been fantastic.
Speaker 5 (34:17):
A good partnership.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
This, this good partnership.
This partnership I mean eventhe dating and stuff like that.
I mean, I paid a lot ofattention to it and others have
noticed it.
You know when her family is hey, craig, are you ever going to
be able to keep up with her?
Hey, be careful, Are you goingto be able to keep up with her?
My response has always been youneed to be worried about her
keeping up with me.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Oh, there you go, there you go, that's awesome If
you back it up.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
I mean, we have the same type of energy when we go
into a room.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
I mean, one of us may be up or down depending on the
day, right?
And I didn't think about thatwhen I was 20, 23 years old,
right?
Speaker 3 (34:57):
Well, that comes with experience.
I mean, you don't really knowwhat you don't know back when
you were 20.
You think you know everything,but you haven't got a clue.
100%.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Yeah, 100%.
Speaker 5 (35:08):
This has been fun.
Thank you, you guys.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Well, this is so awesome, Tiffany and Craig, this
conversation has beenabsolutely fantastic.
Your story is filled withwisdom, humor and so much heart,
and we're learning so much fromthe both of you and there's so
much more to even uncover and weknow this conversation will
resonate deeply with so many ofour listeners.
If you're listening andthinking, this is exactly what
(35:31):
so-and-so needs to hear.
Please share this episode withthem.
It might just give them thehope and inspiration they need
to see that a new beginning ispossible.
In part three, we're going togo deep into the challenges and
joys of blending families,navigating tricky family
dynamics with exes, kids andextended family, and what it
(35:51):
really looks like to start freshlater in life and build a life
together.
But before we go, I need tospeak directly to the couples
out there who feel like they areat a crossroads, the ones who
are exhausted, frustrated andwondering if there's anything
left to fight for in theirmarriage.
Maybe you're having the samearguments over and over.
Maybe the distance between youfeels too wide to close.
(36:13):
Maybe you're feeling more likeroommates than partners.
If any of that sounds familiar,please take a moment and listen
.
Your story isn't over and yourmarriage doesn't have to end
this way.
I know how it feels to hit rockbottom in a marriage.
After 37 years of my ownstruggles, I've taken everything
I've learned the tools, thebreakthroughs, the hard-earned
(36:34):
wisdom and created my HealingHearts coaching program.
This isn't just anothermarriage program.
This is a lifeline for coupleswho feel like they have nothing
left, but still want to believein the possibility of something
better.
If you're ready to fight foryour marriage, I want to fight
alongside you.
Let's rebuild, reconnect,recreate something stronger than
(36:56):
ever before.
If this interests you, pleaseemail me at
trishajamesoncoaching atgmailcom to learn more.
If you're enjoying thisconversation, please hit
subscribe.
Please leave us a review andshare this episode with your
friends and family, and if youhave any questions you'd like to
answer in our future episodes,please send them to
trishajamesoncoaching atgmailcom, and we'll be back soon
with more from Tiffany andCraig.
(37:17):
See you in part three.
Thanks everyone.
Bye-bye, bye, everybody.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
Everybody Appreciate you.
Bye-bye.
Thanks for tuning into the Q&AFiles, delighted to share
today's gems of wisdom with you.
Your questions light up ourshow, fueling the engaging
dialogues that make ourcommunity extra special.
Keep sending your questions totrishajamesoncoaching at
gmailcom.
Your curiosity is our compass.
(37:42):
Please hit, subscribe, spreadthe word and let's grow the
circle of insight and communitytogether.
I'm Trisha Jameson, signing off.
Stay curious, keep thriving andkeep smiling, and I'll catch
you on the next episode.
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