"You have cancer." These three words instantly transform everything, especially for a parent with young children. In this deeply moving episode, we address a raw question from Amber, a 42-year-old mother of four who has just received a breast cancer diagnosis and finds herself paralyzed by fear and conflicting advice.
Leading oncologist Dr. Stephen Anthony joins us to provide clarity through the chaos, bringing 30 years of clinical experience and extraordinary compassion to this crucial conversation. Dr. Anthony shares revolutionary insights about modern cancer treatment approaches that offer more hope than ever before, explaining how precision medicine and genomic profiling can increase treatment success rates from 15% to an astonishing 60%.
Beyond the medical facts, Dr. Anthony offers profound wisdom on the emotional journey, defining hope as "a spiritual quality based on a relationship with God" while optimism comes from medical evidence. This distinction becomes a guiding light for anyone facing difficult health decisions. The conversation delves into practical strategies for navigating the overwhelming flood of information—both helpful and harmful—that accompanies a serious diagnosis.
Perhaps most powerfully, Dr. Jeff shares the story of a patient who, when faced with limited time, chose to prioritize relationships over career, finding peace in his final days by "living in the now." This episode isn't just for those facing cancer—it's for anyone who needs reminding that in life's most challenging moments, being present and connected to those we love matters most.
Have questions about health challenges in your own life? Email us at trishajamisoncoaching@gmail.com and join our community seeking connection, healing, and a way forward through life's toughest moments.
Questions? Contact us at trishajamisoncoaching@gmail.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Trisha Jamison (00:08):
Hello and welcome to the Q&A Files, the
ultimate health and wellnessplayground.
I'm your host, Trisha Jamison,a board-certified functional
nutritionist and lifestylepractitioner, ready to lead you
through a world of healthdiscoveries.
Here we dive into a tapestry ofdisease prevention, to
nutrition, exercise, mentalhealth and building strong
relationships, all spiced withdiverse perspectives.
(00:29):
It's not just a podcast, it's acelebration of health, packed
with insights and a twist of fun.
Welcome aboard the Q&A Files,where your questions ignite our
vibrant discussions and lead toa brighter you.
Welcome, wellness warriors, toanother episode of the Q&A Files
.
I'm your host, Trisha Jamison,a functional nutritionist and
lifestyle practitioner and alife coach, and I'm here with my
(00:52):
amazing co-host, dr JeffJamison, a board-certified
family physician.
Hello, dr Jeff.
Jeff Jamison (00:57):
Hello, How's it going everybody?
Trisha Jamison (00:59):
Yeah, so glad to have him here.
Well, today's episode is goingto be both powerful and personal
.
We're responding to a very rawand emotional question from a
mom who has just been told shehas cancer a moment that changes
everything.
While Tony Overbay won't bejoining us today, we're honored
to have a remarkable guest withus, someone whose experience and
(01:21):
heart are exactly what thisconversation calls for.
Whose experience and heart areexactly what this conversation
calls for, and I'm super excitedto introduce our guest, dr
Stephen P Anthony, who is theSenior Vice President of
Clinical Development for HaleaTherapeutics and the Chief
Medical Officer for New WavePharmaceuticals.
He brings over 30 years ofclinical experience in
(01:42):
hematology and oncology drugdevelopment and has worked in
academic, private and industrysectors.
He's also a leading expert inprecision medicine, with a deep
understanding of genomicmechanisms of disease.
Despite his demanding researchroles, dr Anthony still chooses
to see patients, demonstratinghis heart and humanity behind
(02:05):
his work.
Dr Anthony received his medicaldegree from the Philadelphia
College of Osteopathic Medicine.
He completed his internalmedicine residency at Hahnemann
University Hospital and finishedhis fellowship in hematology
and oncology at Dartmouth.
He also served as a flightsurgeon during the Gulf War with
the United States Air Force.
(02:25):
Dr Steve Anthony is a veryrespected physician and a great
colleague of Dr Jeff's.
Dr Anthony, we're so honored tohave you here with us today,
and welcome to our show.
Dr Steve Anthony (02:38):
Delighted to be here and happy to answer
questions.
Jeff Jamison (02:43):
We're really excited to have you with us.
And just for our listeners.
Dr Anthony and I have beenfriends for gosh 15 or 20 years
and we've worked together onmultiple patients in clinical
settings and I find him one ofmy greatest resources when it
(03:03):
comes to hematology, oncology.
And there are oftentimes, eventhis week, that I've sent him
questions about hey, I got thisperson and here are these labs,
what do I do?
And he's been so kind andgenerous to be able to help me
through a lot of difficultquestions.
So we're here for another one.
Trisha Jamison (03:19):
Yeah.
So this is going to be great,but one of the things that we
like to start off our shows arecelebrations, so we're going to
have Jeff start.
But one of the things that welike to start off our shows are
celebrations, so we're going tohave Jeff start first.
But we just want to celebratewhat's going well in our life,
things that we're lookingforward to.
Jeff Jamison (03:35):
What are some celebrations you both, gentlemen
, have?
Well, you know, it's funnybecause I was thinking about
this, because I knew this wasgoing to happen, happen, and I
kind of just did it because I'mreally thankful and grateful for
my friendship and collegialrelationship with Dr Anthony.
Steve and I, again, have beenfriends for a long time.
We have lunch together often andwe get to spend time talking
(03:59):
about life and things, yeah,when he's in town, and it's just
been a wonderful and upliftingrelationship in my life and so
I'm very grateful for SteveAnthony for me.
Trisha Jamison (04:12):
Oh, fantastic.
Steve, would you like to sharea celebration you have?
Dr Steve Anthony (04:17):
Well, certainly I can echo the same
sentiment.
Certainly, working with DrJamison has been great.
You're such an astute physician.
I love how you take time withpatients.
You ask the right questions.
A lot of physicians don't askthe right questions.
You clearly do, and you knowit's great.
I so enjoy the professionalrelationship, the personal
relationship.
(04:37):
You know it's been a realblessing in my life and I think
every day that I wake up and Ihave good health, I really count
that as a blessing, because youknow what, just like this
moment we're about to talk about, you know your world can get
upended at any moment.
We don't think that.
We probably should.
And I really start off with theblessing of the day to be that
(05:00):
I'm alive and well and here toserve another day.
Jeff Jamison (05:03):
That's right.
Thank you, steve, that's right.
Thank you, steve, that'sawesome.
Trisha Jamison (05:06):
Beautiful, and my celebration is not about
medicine, but it is about family, and next week we're going to
be going to Disneyland with manyof our grandchildren and our
children, and so we're meetingthem there and we're going to
spend a week and we're superexcited.
It'll be super fun.
Jeff Jamison (05:25):
It will be fun.
Trisha Jamison (05:27):
All right.
So before we dive in today'slistener question, I'd love to
give our audience a chance toget to know the person behind
the powerful credentials.
Dr Anthony, out of all theroles you've held physician,
researcher, military officer,innovator what has been the most
meaningful or formative part ofyour journey?
Dr Steve Anthony (05:47):
that's a great question.
Um, outside of being a dad,it's hard to top that, but I
think you know what,professionally, I think you know
every role honestly just leadsinto the next role, right?
So whether I was in privatepractice or whether I was in
academic practice, there wasalways this background of
(06:08):
research and it always wasdriving me to say we need better
drugs.
And then the opportunity cameup to be in industry.
More often than not and thatoccurred almost eight years ago
now and I have to say thatthat's been probably one of the
more special aspects of mycareer, because it blends all of
(06:29):
that clinical background thatI've had for over 25 years into
what I now need to do at a verydifferent level.
And if I didn't have thathybrid experience, if I was just
a physician, scientist orsomething like that, I think it
would maybe be less impactful.
Trisha Jamison (06:49):
I love that Very profound.
Jeff Jamison (06:52):
And the interesting thing to me is how
that plays out in the way hecoaches people along the way
like me, who need help, and Ijust appreciate his vast
experience.
Dr Anthony is very likely oneof the brightest humans I know.
And I have enjoyed being ableto be the recipient of his
(07:14):
wisdom, and so what an honor wehave to be here with him.
Trisha Jamison (07:18):
Well, and I also love the first thing he said is
that outside of being a dad, Ialmost actually put dad in there
, but I knew you'd probably saythat first.
But I mean, that just shows whoyou are, so I love that part.
Yeah, thank you.
So is there a particularpatient or experience that
changed the way you practicemedicine or how you approach
(07:39):
healing?
Dr Steve Anthony (07:40):
Oh, that's a great question.
I think there are a number ofcases.
That's a great question.
I think there are a number ofcases.
I remember, in particular,being quite moved by a patient
who had a traumatic injury whenI was a resident, and in fact it
was terrible.
Her former husband ran her overwith a car.
Trisha Jamison (08:01):
Oh, my gosh On purpose.
Dr Steve Anthony (08:03):
Yes, on purpose, fractures her pelvis
and everything else and it wasprobably one of the first
patients that I really had achance to maybe know a little
bit more personally because Iwas rounding on her every day
and we had a chance to havedialogue Probably one of the
first patients I prayed with inthe hospital, and I think it was
(08:25):
really them that it took thehumanity of disease at a deeper
level.
You know what I mean.
It was all of a sudden, it waslike you know, all right, this
is a human, this is a crisis,this is how we're going to help
them out, this is how we'regoing to go forward.
And I think, equally, duringthe same time, during my
(08:46):
residency, I was exposed tohematology and oncology patients
and I think, honestly, whathumbled me was that these people
were dealing with incrediblelife-threatening diseases and
yet the spirit of most of themwas exceptional and I thought
the people treating them wereexceptional and I thought, boy,
what a perfect intersection.
(09:07):
Right, you've got a life in acrisis, you've got people, for
the most part, who are kind oflooking at life a bit
differently because of thecrisis, and then you have people
with the gifts from God beingable to come in and really try
to help intervene.
So really a perfectintersection of life.
Trisha Jamison (09:26):
A gift from God.
I love that, because I love howyou integrate faith into your
practice and how important andmeaningful that is for the
patient too, and that you prayedwith her.
Wow, that's so powerful.
Thank you for sharing that.
Dr Steve Anthony (09:42):
Of course.
Trisha Jamison (09:43):
So you made time to continue seeing patients
even with a full schedule inyour research career.
Dr Steve Anthony (09:52):
What keeps you grounded in direct patient care
.
I enjoy it, you know.
I mean, I think as a matter offact I would say I enjoy it even
more since I'm not doing itfull time Because it's a real
opportunity to get in and bewith the patient, probably give
even a little bit more than whatI did when I was seeing them on
a daily basis, you know.
(10:13):
So it's to me again.
It just it makes thatconnection of what we're doing
so much more real, right, andwhen I'm seeing patients whose
diseases are unfortunatelymarching ahead, it's a humble
reminder of where we need to go,you know, and if you're not
seeing patients, if you're notinteracting at that level, you
(10:35):
know you do get a littledisconnected.
Trisha Jamison (10:38):
Sure, absolutely , jeff.
Do you have anything to add tothat?
Jeff Jamison (10:42):
Oh my, how do you stay grounded.
You know, I think for me, myimmersion in patient care, the
way that I stay grounded, is toget out of it a little bit.
(11:06):
And the way I stay grounded isto be able to extract myself
from the day-to-day problems ofeach of the patients, because it
really can be overwhelming.
And when I'm seeing, you know,30 people a day and they have
varied good and bad problemsgoing on sometimes for me I've
got to get into a place where Ican remember my faith, I can
remember my family and I canremember to take care of myself.
And and those are those are hardthings to do when you're
(11:27):
immersed in caring for others.
So much so for me I you knowwe've talked about in this
podcast other times that I Ilove to spend time with my
family and the fact that we'regoing to Disneyland for a week.
That'll be a great time for meto just sort of unplug.
Also, I love to even for anhour or so here and there to
(11:51):
just get up in the air in anairplane and just take a God's
eye view of things and justthank my maker for the beauty
around me and then I can diveright back into and become the
physician and the confidant topeople and the healer that
(12:13):
otherwise it's necessary for meto do.
Trisha Jamison (12:16):
And I can attest to that.
When he's super stressed andthen he gets out, especially, it
can go five for not very long.
He just comes back such adifferent person and so everyone
needs that, everyone needs thatout, whatever that is for you.
So you've been at the forefrontof precision medicine.
Is there a breakthrough orcurrent project you're
(12:36):
especially excited about, andwhat could it mean for future
treatment options?
You?
Dr Steve Anthony (12:42):
know.
I think we're starting to lookat genomics differently.
We've always we've had genomicsfor decades now, but the
precision of which we can lookat things is radically changing
how we're going after diseases.
It's apparent that if you carrybad genes, that you're at risk
for developing disease, but noteveryone who carries those bad
(13:05):
genes actually develops disease.
So the question is is that whatis special about those people
that protects them fromdeveloping the disease?
And that's an area oftherapeutics that we're starting
to look at, which is reallyinteresting.
And unless you have the toolswhere you're looking at very
large families and you'relooking at them over generations
(13:30):
, ideally with genomicinformation you can really begin
to pick apart what are thoseprotective effects.
So, rather than just dealingwith the end result of the
disease, can we actually nowmake the next leap forward,
which is trying to preventdisease from occurring, not only
(13:53):
in at-risk people, but could ithelp with people who already
have established disease?
Could you reverse the diseaseby intervening, so we now have
the ability to develop drugs tomimic what the body can do in
those circumstances?
So it really is.
It really is going afterdisease earlier rather than
chasing the disease that'sestablished.
Jeff Jamison (14:14):
Oh, I love that because so many diseases that we
work with as physicians.
The problem is that you knowthe cat's out of the bag by the
time we get a hold of it, andwhen we do, it's a losing battle
in a lot of ways, and I justappreciate the almost
preventative nature of whatyou're doing now.
Trisha Jamison (14:36):
Right, Right, yeah, it makes sense.
Jeff Jamison (14:39):
Yeah, yeah, wow.
It's way over my head.
I'm looking into those thingsat this point, but I just really
enjoy hearing about the newadvances.
It's really fun.
Trisha Jamison (14:50):
Well, and it's just incredible to think that
there's something like that outthere that could help people
hopefully in the near future,and so, wow, that is just so
great to know.
Thank you?
Jeff Jamison (15:02):
Yeah, you're welcome.
Great to know.
Trisha Jamison (15:03):
Thank you.
That's awesome For listenerswho may not fully understand the
field.
Can you explain what makeshematology and oncology such a
unique and challenging area ofmedicine?
Dr Steve Anthony (15:15):
Great question .
So hematology is the study ofblood, and it can be both benign
diseases, which means thatthey're not cancer, or it can be
true cancers of the bloodsystem, and so a benign
hematology condition is anemia.
Low blood Could be somethingsimple.
Dr Jamison often treats irondeficiency anemia or B12
(15:36):
deficiency or Foley deficiency,or you could have something like
a leukemia, and leukemias caneither be acute, which make
people very sick and can bedifficult to recover, or they
can be chronic, which you canlive with for years, if not
decades.
So that's hematology, andoncology is basically the
spectrum of cancer.
(15:56):
So it can be early cancer or itcan be established cancer.
So in the case of today, whatwe'll be talking about later is
you can either have anon-invasive breast cancer,
which means it has not got outof the cells, or you can have an
invasive breast cancer, and sowe deal with the whole spectrum
(16:17):
of anything that iscancer-producing.
Or for me, and then as amedical oncologist, we don't
deal with the surgery, we don'tdeal with the radiation, but we
deal with the medications thatwe prescribe, which could be
chemotherapy, which everyonedreads, but nowadays it's really
(16:37):
a bunch of drugs thatnecessarily aren't there.
So there are many types ofchemotherapy and people always
think of chemotherapy as theintravenous stuff that just
makes you deathly ill.
Fortunately, that's less of thecase nowadays because of
supportive medications, butreally we talk about any type of
drug that can target a cancer,whether it's blocking hormones,
(17:01):
which we often use in breastcancer or prostate cancer, or if
it's blocking a specificpathway.
We were talking about genomicsearlier, and through genomics
we've been able to detectcertain susceptibilities for
certain cancers.
So, for instance, there'ssomething called chronic myeloid
leukemia, or CML, and it turnsout that it's one of the few
(17:25):
blood cancers that is addictedto a specific bad gene called
BCR-ABL, and we actually havedrugs that target just BCR-ABL
and for the most part, outsideof giving a little bit of maybe
nausea or some loose stools,they're exceptionally
well-tolerated and we have awhole spectrum of pills now that
(17:48):
we can prescribe to people thataren't the intensive
chemotherapy that people think.
So the thing is is we have alot of options on how to help
patients out.
It's a matter of trying tomatch the right drug or the
combination of drugs that thepatient needs at that time.
Jeff Jamison (18:06):
You know, I think one of the things that people
are so concerned about is thatchemotherapy thing, and when
people hear chemotherapy theyimmediately think hair falling
out, nausea, vomiting, weightloss and feeling worse than the
cancer was making them feel.
And the nice thing is that thatis not the case nearly so much
(18:31):
anymore although it still doeshappen, depending on the type of
cancer and the treatmentnecessary.
I love how it's become morepinpointed and directed rather
than here.
We're going to make all of yousick just to try and get rid of
a few sick cells.
Dr Steve Anthony (18:49):
Right.
Jeff Jamison (18:50):
Right, I agree.
Dr Steve Anthony (18:51):
Well, our supportive care drugs are much
better than what we hadpreviously and that makes a huge
difference.
You know, and like everythingin life, is risk to benefit?
Right, we all drive cars, butwe know about 50,000 people died
last year, right, so we allwear our seatbelts.
Hopefully, we pay attention tothe rules of the road and we
usually get to our destinationsafely.
(19:12):
And it's the same thing withchemotherapy.
It's like, okay, well, we'regoing to have to pay attention
to some rules, we're going toput on our seatbelts, we're
going to take the right stuff inadvance and we should get to
our destination safely.
So I think that we can remove alot of the scare with terms,
because it's like everything, ifpeople have a bad experience,
(19:32):
you're more likely to hear aboutit than a good experience, and
that's unfortunate, butcertainly that's what happens.
Jeff Jamison (19:39):
It's human nature, though they're going to focus
on the negatives.
And how many times have weheard that a person has to hear
like 10 times the number ofpositives, even though they hear
one negative about themselves?
Trisha Jamison (19:52):
they're going to focus on that and not the
hundred positive things aboutthemselves that's right well and
it's just, but it's such anegative experience and so I
think that that's very loud fora lot of people too right well,
I'm just talking about thosethat go through the chemotherapy
and they do have the hair lossand the nausea and the vomiting
(20:13):
I mean.
So that is very loud.
Dr Steve Anthony (20:14):
So you hear about those stories.
Trisha Jamison (20:18):
Okay, awesome, thank you.
On a more personal note, welove spotlighting the human side
of our guests and we'd love foryou to tell us a little bit
about your family.
How has your career shaped, orbeen shaped, by your role as a
husband, a father and agrandfather?
Dr Steve Anthony (20:36):
So it's been great.
It's a balancing act.
I don't admit that I've alwaysdone it perfectly, but the good
news is that who does?
Yeah, the good news is, I feelthat the kids have felt that I
was there consistentlythroughout the school years and
afterwards and that therecontinues to be a really strong
(21:00):
relationship.
I think they see medicine assomething that's very good but
very demanding, and I think theyalso look at how I try to
balance things.
You know it's not just allmedicine.
You know I have plenty ofoutside interests that keep me
well occupied, and whether thoseare things with the kids
they're now older it's kind offun to do things with them
(21:23):
rather than taking them.
Grandkids are a little bitdifferent, you know, but it's
been a real balancing act.
But I think it's been good andI think the family has grown to
appreciate what medicine meansand I think certainly, as they
get older, they certainlyunderstand medicine a lot better
(21:43):
.
It's harder when you're a kid,that's for sure.
Trisha Jamison (21:47):
Absolutely, and not understanding the demands
that dad has is sometimesconfusing to children.
So as they grow older they'reable to kind of grasp that
concept a little bit more.
You know dad's just not there,why he missed my baseball game,
why Birthday parties, why, andthen, as they grow older, they
(22:09):
recognize and appreciate so muchmore of what he does.
What you both do yeah,definitely.
Thank you so much for sharingthe personal side of you.
I think that's always soimportant too, and I think a lot
of times, even with physicians,it's so imperative to feel that
side of the profession, becausea lot of times you don't feel
(22:30):
that from a lot of physicians,and so I just I love that and
you're so personable anyway, andI just wanted to share a little
bit more about your family.
It's clear you both bringexpertise and heart into the
space you're both in, and whenJeff talked about you're the
most brilliant person.
I think that you both are quitebrilliant in what you do
specifically.
(22:50):
So I'm so grateful to have youboth here and that's exactly why
we're bringing Dr Anthony tothis next question, and it comes
from a listener and her name isAmber, and it's an incredibly
real and vulnerable question.
She says.
My name is Amber, I'm 42 yearsold and I'm a mom to four
beautiful kids, all still athome.
(23:12):
Just a few days ago, I heard thewords no one ever wants to hear
you have breast cancer.
Everything in my world shiftedin that moment.
I'm scared scared for my kids,scared for my future, scared for
making the wrong choice.
I keep picturing my children attheir milestones graduations,
weddings and wondering if I'mever going to be there and,
(23:34):
honestly, the fear isn't justabout the cancer.
It's also about the treatment.
I don't want to become so sickfrom chemo or radiation that I
lose who I am before I even geta chance to fight.
Now, everything and everyone Iturn to people are giving me
advice.
Some say stick with traditionalmedicine.
Others tell me to go to Mexico,try the natural cures.
(23:56):
It's overwhelming, it'sconfusing and every minute that
passes I feel the pressuremounting like time is slipping
through my fingers.
I feel overwhelmed and lost.
I don't want to waste precioustime chasing treatments that
don't work, but I also don'twant to endure needless
suffering.
If there are better options outthere, how do I even begin to
(24:18):
figure out the right path for me?
How can someone like me scared,overwhelmed and desperately
trying to make the best decisionfor herself and her family
navigate all this and find realhope and real healing.
First of all, amber, thank youso much for being willing to
share such a raw and vulnerablepart of your story.
(24:38):
Your question is so verypowerful and I know it speaks to
the heart of countless others.
So, dr Anthony, I can onlyimagine how many ambers you've
sat with over the years.
When someone receives adiagnosis like this, especially
as a mother, what's the firstthing you want them to know?
(25:00):
And, jeff, you can answer thatquestion as well, because I know
, know you've had patients thatyou've also had.
Jeff Jamison (25:04):
Yeah, I have these first conversations fairly
often.
Trisha Jamison (25:07):
Right, so both of you please share.
Jeff Jamison (25:09):
Go ahead, steve, you've got the depth.
Dr Steve Anthony (25:14):
Well, it's interesting.
I always try to remember thatthe word fear is an acronym for
false evidence appearing real,and I think that is, for me,
grounding.
Now, part of that's because offaith.
Right, we know where our hopeis.
And people will always say DrAnthony, give me some hope.
(25:36):
And I say well, I can tell youthis that I define hope as a
spiritual quality based upon arelationship with God.
Trisha Jamison (25:46):
I love that.
When you say that again, justrepeat that that is so good.
Dr Steve Anthony (25:51):
So hope is a spiritual quality that's based
upon a relationship with God,and optimism is that incredible
human quality that believes wecan overcome anything in front
of us.
So to me, I can never give hope.
It's a spiritual relationship.
I can be optimistic with you,but my hope always has to remain
in God.
(26:12):
And cancer is such a scary word,it disarms you.
I mean you think, look, I'velost family and friends due to
cancer.
And it's never easy.
Even as an oncologist or ahematologist it's never easy to
go through that process.
But there's one thing that I doknow, and that is everyone's
journey is so individual.
(26:34):
Everyone's journey is soindividual, and I look at the
opportunity to meet the patientas to really try to focus on
what their stage is, becausestage one breast cancer is
markedly different than stagefour.
Stage four means it's spread.
Stage one means it's localized.
Stage two means it's localized.
(26:54):
Even three means that it'sadvanced, but it's's localized.
Stage two means it's localized.
Even three means that it'sadvanced, but it's still
localized.
So understanding the stagehelps put the context of what
are we really dealing with.
And then, once we even knowsimple things like the stage and
we have a lot of tools to helpus accurately stage people with
cancer, and that includesimaging, blood work and so forth
(27:17):
.
Once we know that, then we canoutline a treatment course.
And the treatment course is inmost cases, almost always
multidisciplinary, which meansthat we're going to potentially
have a surgeon, we're going tohave someone like myself, we're
going to have someone like aradiation oncologist, because
there's no one-stop shoppingtypically with cancer.
(27:38):
Now, if it's a very earlycancer, it may only need surgery
, but then there would besurveillance and that's where
someone like Dr Jamison ormyself comes in as part of the
surveillance.
If it's a little bit moreadvanced, then yes, I may need
to step in, or we may needradiation, and someone like
myself.
Then, yes, I may need to stepin, or we may need radiation,
(28:00):
and some of them like myself.
And the one thing I tell peopleabout traditional medicine,
because there's a lot of greatantidotes out there and people
will say, look, you know I tookhydrogen peroxide and it killed
the cancer and you know what.
That's a great story.
I like that story actuallymyself.
But you know what, at least themedicines I give people, I can
tell you what the actualresponses are, and it's not
(28:23):
going to be 100%, but at leastit's not going to be antidote
and I'm going to have thebenefit of other people who have
done clinical research, otherpatients who, through, hopefully
, altruism, where they weremotivated, not just for
themselves but for the greatergood of unanimity, to
participate in a trial to helpidentify what is the best
(28:45):
therapy.
And so, even though traditionalmedicine has some failures, at
least you know that outright.
You know, if I go back to thehydrogen peroxide, it's not like
I can tell people why.
I read a paper and there were athousand people treated with it
and you know, maybe it was twoout of the thousand responded.
(29:05):
But if the medicine I'm givingyou works in 500 out of a
thousand, it probably makessense to take that treatment
over something that rarely works, to take that treatment over
something that rarely works.
So it's all a matter ofinformation and I think one of
the biggest things for patientsis to really have that
(29:25):
conversation with theironcologist.
And what does that conversationfeel like?
And then it never hurts to geta second opinion.
Dr Jamison knows better than Ido.
It's always a matter of tryingto find the personality as well
as the expertise.
And you know what?
Sometimes the expertise is notlocal, and it even boils down to
(29:49):
simple things.
I know we're talking aboutbreast cancer, but for years
people would ask me about bonemarrow transplants in the local
area.
For years people would ask meabout bone marrow transplants in
the local area and I'd say, yes, you can get it done here
locally.
But the institution that didthe very first bone marrow
transplant in the world is fourhours away.
I would go to someone who has 50years of experience versus
(30:10):
someone who has 10.
So it's a matter ofunderstanding what your
resources are within thecommunity, and there's a lot of
well-intentioned people outthere.
But the one good thing abouttraditional medicine is at least
we know what it brings and youalso have the opportunity to use
newer drugs, and with theseother alternatives it's really
(30:36):
less of an unknown.
And I think that's the bigworry.
And when she talks about Idon't want to waste time, you
know what I mean.
It's I hear you.
And, by the way, wait is a fourletter word to a cancer patient
.
So we don't want people to wait.
Okay, we don't want people towaste time, right, but we want
(30:56):
them to have effective use oftime, and so it's important to
begin to make that journey.
But that journey is going tohave a number of steps, and it
starts with getting information.
That's foundational in how youfeel that.
I love that, yeah.
Jeff Jamison (31:12):
I appreciate that too, dr Anthony.
I love the way you look athaving understanding,
information and experience andusing all of those together to
form a treatment plan.
Trisha Jamison (31:29):
And keeping that optimism in place too.
I love that as well.
Jeff Jamison (31:33):
You know the hard part.
You know there's a lot ofalternative therapies out there
which are and you bring up theword anecdotal or it's an
anecdote and that's the thingthat is.
The big difference is you don'tget in the anecdotal therapies
any real hard data that says,yes, this is really helpful
(31:59):
because and this is where it'sworking.
But the hard part I find for alot of people in the lay
population they look at this aswell.
My grandfather had this problemand he went through
chemotherapy and it was terribleand he died anyway.
(32:20):
Or they hear this that somebodywent to Mexico and had a red
light therapy for 13 weeks andspent $15,000 on their therapy
plus and they got spa treatmentswhile they were there and and
they feel like this is the wayto go.
And I just don't have a goodanswer as far as to tell them
(32:44):
what they can expect from thingslike that.
But I think the one thing thatyou do get with that is that it
improves their optimism and whena person's optimism is improved
and they think they're going todo better, they often will for
a time.
You know the whole placeboeffect thing and sometimes it's
(33:05):
not.
I just don't even know.
Trisha Jamison (33:08):
So what's the first thing you would share with
her?
What would you want her to know?
Jeff Jamison (33:13):
Well, the first thing I'd want to share with her
is that there's great peoplewith good treatment and have
good reasons to get a hold ofthis quickly.
And if you have an invasive youknow adductor carcinoma of the
breast that often moves quicklyand you don't want to wait
(33:34):
around and say, well, you know,I'm going to try this treatment
or that treatment and hope forthe best, because you just might
be behind the eight ball untilyet and then you really have to
get aggressive, and I don't knowthat I would do that, I, you
know.
It really just comes down to aperson's comfort level and what
they feel like they can handle.
(33:54):
But I think they need to havelots of information before they
make a choice.
Trisha Jamison (34:00):
Okay, that's perfect.
Jeff Jamison (34:01):
Thank you and I want them to have the best
experts involved as well.
Trisha Jamison (34:05):
Definitely, definitely so.
Amber talks about being floodedwith advice, from traditional
medicine to natural cures inMexico.
So how can someone begin tosort through all the noise and
find a path that's right forthem?
Dr Steve Anthony (34:20):
Well, that's a challenge, right, and I think
it boils down to what do youreally believe is generating
that information for you?
So, for instance, I think allof us would agree that
information is power.
And the power that you get frominformation is to be able to
(34:40):
make a rational decision aboutsomething, and you know,
sometimes panic will cause us tomake irrational decisions.
Trisha Jamison (34:49):
Right.
Dr Steve Anthony (34:49):
But this is not about panicking.
This is about takinginformation and hearing.
Is it consistent?
And I would say the one thingabout alternative therapies,
which are intriguing and I thinkwe need to continue to explore,
is that you won't hear theguidance on alternative
(35:10):
therapies consistently expressedor explained, or even given
from one group to another groupto another group, whereas if you
look at traditional medicine,it's typically offered
consistently, maybe styles alittle bit differently, but it's
going to be offeredconsistently because we know
that's what works.
(35:31):
And so if you have somethingthat you're not sure about and
everyone's given it a little bitdifferent, which is the problem
with alternative medicine thenthat's, I think, where it gets a
little bit scary.
And I think the other biggerthing is who supports you.
If your family is local, Ithink you would want to get
therapy local, to be supportedby your family.
Trisha Jamison (35:53):
Right, and you need that at that time for sure.
Dr Steve Anthony (35:56):
You need that at that time.
Yeah, you need all of thoseresources, whether it's family,
whether it's friends, whetherit's church, whatever is
supporting you.
You need that community tosupport you on this journey.
But I think you have a greatterm.
You talk about noise and thereis a lot of noise and I think,
(36:18):
again, we're all supposed to bevehicles of the gifts that God
gets us and hopefully we'reusing those in an honest way and
I know, at least with what wedo in traditional medicine, I
feel that it is an honestrepresentation of what he has to
offer us and to me, there's alot of grounding that has to go
(36:39):
back in faith.
Jeff Jamison (36:41):
So agree I think that's fantastic.
Trisha Jamison (36:42):
I love that.
Okay, so you specialize inprecision medicine.
Could you share more on howthat personalized approach based
on genomics can influencecancer treatment options today?
Dr Steve Anthony (36:56):
Yeah, that's a great question.
So I mean, like in this personwe're talking about, we'll have
to need BRCA testing, which arethe genes that are susceptible
to cancer, and in the old dayswe did that because it would
affect family members, but nowwe actually have therapies that
are directed for those.
But procedure medicine reallyhas its stay in diseases in
(37:17):
which there's no standard ofcare for either second, third or
fourth line therapy.
So in my previous practiceprobably about a third of it was
second opinions and peoplewould often come and say I have
no options and to me we woulduse genomic profiling, which we
(37:38):
did on the cancer cells thatwere in them.
We would take a sample, usuallythrough interventional
radiology, send it off to areference lab and there are
numbers, there are a number ofthem that are out there now and
we would get back the genomicdetails and that would tell us
if there was a targeted therapythat we could use for those
people.
(37:59):
And you know what?
That's actually a great way togo, because if you were to take
the earliest type of clinicaltrials that means a drug that's
never been tested in a cancerpatient your chance of success
is about 10 to 15 percent% Ifyou use genomic profiling, that
number could maybe go as high asup to 60%, or even higher, oh
(38:23):
my goodness.
So there's real opportunitiesto help patients.
You just need the information.
You'd be surprised how manypeople just don't have that
information.
Jeff Jamison (38:31):
And then what to do with that information.
Trisha Jamison (38:33):
Well, and do you think that it's the physician
that's not giving theinformation?
Do you feel like I mean?
What is the reason that thepatient's not getting that
information?
Dr Steve Anthony (38:42):
Well, you have to be knowledgeable about it,
right.
You have to know that it exists.
You have to know how to use it,right.
Trisha Jamison (38:47):
The doctor needs to know okay.
Dr Steve Anthony (38:49):
I mean you get back a 20 page report.
Who wants to read that?
You know?
But you know it's part of thecommitment to help the patients,
right?
So I spend part of my timecounseling other physicians,
usually actually around theworld, on how to interpret these
genomic tests so they can helpmake better decisions for their
(39:09):
patients.
But it's a commitment and a lotof physicians don't want to do
it.
It's too much time.
It's sad to say that, but it isyeah physicians don't want to
do it.
Jeff Jamison (39:18):
It's too much time .
It's sad to say that, but it is.
Yeah, I can relate to thepressures that physicians face
on a day-to-day basis trying toabsorb the information necessary
to be knowledgeable in theseareas, and I can understand also
why it's really important tomake sure that you're connected
with people who have actuallygone through the training and
(39:38):
know how to look.
They know what they're lookingfor, and one of the things that
I mean I get reports all daylong reports from ERs, reports
from specialists, reports fromthis and that and the other, and
after you digest enough reports, you know where to look for
what you're looking for, and sothat's one of the cool things I
(39:59):
imagine that you can do whenyou're looking at a genomic
report is to go, okay, thisperson has this type of cancer,
I want to see how thisparticular gene reacted, and you
can focus in in that 20-pagereport down to one or two pages
probably, and you probablythat's all you really need, but
you have to digest enough ofthem to be able to know where
(40:21):
you're looking.
Dr Steve Anthony (40:23):
Yeah, I agree.
I agree, Experience counts.
Jeff Jamison (40:26):
Yep, and it's hard to find.
Whew, how do you even find theright people?
And that's a thing that I'mfortunate to have resources like
Dr Anthony to be able to whenI'm confronted with a person
that has a new cancer, whetherand I see them all whether it's
(40:49):
breast cancer or brain cancer orliver cancer you name it, I'm
often the person who finds itfirst somehow, and so I've got
to have kind of a broad spectrumof what do you do with these
generally?
Trisha Jamison (41:05):
Now.
Jeff Jamison (41:05):
I cannot do it to the level that Dr Anthony does,
and I would never even want totry.
But you're not supposed to wouldnever even want to try but to
have people like Dr Anthony.
But fortunately for me, I havepeople like Dr Anthony.
So when I find this and Iusually immediately bring a
(41:25):
person in as absolutely fast asI can and talk to them in person
, and before then I've done somehomework to be able to say,
okay, this is the kind of canceryou have.
These are likely the things youhave to expect.
Here's who I'm going to set youup with so that you can get the
best care possible.
So I've got an idea of what I'mdoing before I show up with the
(41:48):
patient there.
I don't know, what do you thinkwe should do?
Patient?
That's part of doing a good jobfor a person is doing your
homework.
Trisha Jamison (41:59):
And that's what family practice does is they set
up those physicians?
They answer the questions thatthey can and I love that.
And I've heard so many timesfrom your patients, jeff, what
you've done for them and howyou've been able to take care of
them and you've been able tonavigate that path for them that
has once been so scary, howyou've been able to take care of
them and you've been able tonavigate that path for them.
That has once been so scary,and you've been able to fill in
(42:21):
those gaps and fill in thatinformation for them.
So I think that that's justreally awesome.
Jeff Jamison (42:27):
One of the things, though, is that this is just
you know.
I think Dr Anthony and I sharearesponsibility as physicians to
do the best that we can withthe knowledge that we have and
to be able to find new knowledgeas it becomes available and
maybe we even discover it.
(42:47):
Found some treatments that arebasically specific to me, that
other people don't do, justbecause I found them to be
successful, and so in that wayit's anecdotal to me, but they
do seem to work on a great basis.
(43:08):
But when you're dealing with alot of different people with
cancer, having a really goodsense of what works in this
situation and what thefirst-line treatments are, that
is something I depend on DrAnthony and his colleagues to be
the point people on.
Trisha Jamison (43:28):
So do you both feel like cancer has increased
dramatically in the last decade?
Dr Steve Anthony (43:33):
I think, so, yeah, I think we're aware of
earlier cancers because ofscreening.
Yeah, that's, true I thinkmortality is down, so it tells
me that we're making an impact.
But I think you have peoplelike Dr Jameis out there doing
screenings that we weren't doingand we're picking up things.
Jeff Jamison (43:51):
So that's good news because it may be going up,
but it's earlier stage cancersand that's a good news because
(44:17):
it may be going up, but it'searlier stage cancers and I
think that's a good thing, andit's done during a thing called
an adult wellness visit.
The adult wellness visit is alot of times poo-pooed by
patients thinking, oh, this is awaste of time, I don't really
need to do that, I've alreadyhad lab work done here or there
and so I don't need to do it.
But what happens is this is aparticular time where we can
actually go through and look ateach system and decide if there
(44:41):
are screening tests that theyhave or have not done to make
sure that their chances ofcancer, osteoporosis, other
things that are continuallycausing problems for people that
we can get in front of thembefore.
They're a big deal and theycost the patient both time,
money and pain.
Trisha Jamison (45:01):
Well, and Dr Anthony just shared that he's
got some testing, that he's awellness check, that he's going
in for himself personally, andso I think even physicians need
to make sure that they're takingcare of themselves and getting
in and being screened, becausesometimes you think that you're
good, but you need to rememberthat you're still human and you
(45:23):
run into problems too, and Ithink that so often patients
take precedence, family takesprecedence and oftentimes you do
not take care of yourself.
So I was so glad to hear, drAnthony, that you've got that
taken care of, because there'ssome things that Jeff has been
putting off.
Jeff Jamison (45:39):
Yeah, it's time for some stuff for me.
Dr Steve Anthony (45:42):
Well, I have a very good doctor, and I see him
in the middle of the screenright now.
Jeff Jamison (45:48):
Oh, thank you, Steve.
Yeah, it is the case, though,that people need to do a good
job with this and not to poo-pootheir general physicals.
Trisha Jamison (45:59):
Yes, listen to the doctors here.
Jeff Jamison (46:02):
The other thing that's interesting I have to
just quickly point out is thatphysicals like this are not
meant for taking care of acuteproblems.
A lot of people come in with alaundry list that a physical is
where you fix all the problemsthat are going on right now.
That's not their purpose.
Their purpose is to make surethat your generalized screening
(46:23):
tests are taken care of and thatyou can be rescheduled for
acute issues.
It's kind of like if you go tothe dentist for a cleaning, the
dentist is not going to takecare of a cavity right then and
there, even if they find it.
So you think of it like goingin for a cleaning at the dentist
and then you get rescheduledfor other things like that.
Yeah, that's a smart analogy.
Trisha Jamison (46:45):
Yeah, I think that's really good point.
Thank you for bringing that up.
Yeah, okay, so Amber's fearisn't just about cancer, it's
about the toll of the treatment,and I think we talked about
that early on that a lot ofpeople are afraid of that.
So what are some of the lessaggressive or newer treatment
approaches that are offeringhope today?
Dr Steve Anthony (47:05):
Well, I think it depends upon the stage of the
cancer, and I think with a lotof cancers, they can be treated
with surgery and if it's amatter of simple surgery,
sometimes that's all that'sneeded.
Sometimes you need surgery plusa little bit of radiation,
depending upon if you want topreserve the breast.
Sometimes, if you have thesurgery and radiation, sometimes
(47:29):
we need to give anti-hormonesto prevent the cancer from
coming back, and nowadays wehave a genomic tool for breast
cancer patients where we canactually get a score and tell
them if they actually needchemotherapy.
You know, 25 years ago weover-treated everyone with
(47:49):
breast cancer.
You came in and everyone gotbig-gun chemotherapy and we knew
we were over-treating peoplebut we had no idea of how to
help those patients.
And then some very brilliantpeople, especially in Europe,
started looking at genomicprofiles, and there are big
companies here in the US lookedat genomic profiles and then
(48:10):
followed those patients foryears, if not decades, to say
would the cancer come back?
And said, well, if you havethis genomic risk versus this
genomic risk, these people areso low they'll never benefit
from chemotherapy.
So now we actually have toolsto help Amber and other patients
and it's not just a randomdecision, it's a really
(48:34):
well-informed decision.
So if we come back and we havea genomic tool that says, hey,
your risk of the cancer comingback in 10 years is 32%, and by
giving you this treatment we'regoing to reduce it to maybe less
than 15% or even more, then thepatient can make an informed
decision.
So the good news is we are usingsome of those genomic tools now
(48:57):
to really help inform ourdecisions.
Jeff Jamison (49:00):
Wow, that's so helpful.
That's got to be really helpfulfor Amber to be able to.
If she can get to the rightpeople that can get the right
information and then use thatinformation to tailor make a
treatment for her, then her oddsof survival well are pretty
good, I agree.
Trisha Jamison (49:19):
And she'll be able to hit those milestones
with her children andgrandchildren.
I love that so good.
How can patients advocate forthemselves in a medical setting,
especially when they feelscared and overwhelmed?
Dr Steve Anthony (49:32):
Well, write questions down, bring people
with you, try to do somereasonable information off the
internet if you can.
As we always say, don't confuseyour Google search with the
medical degree Great.
But I think if you have someonewith you, if you're writing
(49:53):
questions down, that really goesa long way to really
understanding next steps.
Jeff Jamison (49:59):
Yeah, I agree.
I think that it really comesdown to being personally
well-informed about what's goingon with you, and that's doing
your own research and internetsearches can be helpful Talking
with other people.
There's multiple chat boardsand communities in cancer that
have got lots of things that youcan help from.
(50:20):
They can also be incrediblydamaging too, because everybody
thinks that everybody else'scancer is just like theirs and
if you don't do it like you did,you're doing it wrong.
So, there's misinformation aswell.
So you have to take those kindsof non-professional places,
(50:41):
take it with a grain of salt, somaking sure that you understand
your source of your informationand judge its credibility.
Trisha Jamison (50:52):
And then also making sure.
Jeff Jamison (50:54):
I love Dr Anthony's discussion about
making sure, when you go to thedoctor, that you bring people
with you.
One person is going to hear onething, another person is going
to hear another.
Having somebody that takesnotes and then you can compare
notes you know afterward veryhelpful and it will help
generate new questions for nexttime and then bring them with
(51:15):
you.
Trisha Jamison (51:15):
What do you think about recording?
You know if they brought theirphone and recorded the office
visit.
Is that something that you'drecommend or not?
Dr Steve Anthony (51:22):
That's fine, I mean, I'm never opposed to it.
I mean, you know what I'msaying.
If it helps, if it's a tool forthem to help review later, yeah
, no, not a problem.
Jeff Jamison (51:31):
I'm similar with that.
I'm similar with that.
I think that there are alsosome upcoming tools, that a lot
of our interactions are going tobe recorded in the office to
make sure that the officeconversation is accurately
represented in the record aswell.
So there are some things comingup on that.
Trisha Jamison (51:52):
Wow, there you go, okay.
So what kind of emotional andmental health support do you
wish more women had access to inthose early stages of diagnosis
?
Dr Steve Anthony (52:04):
Well, I think for me it really is about how do
you surround yourself withtruly family, friends and church
.
Those are going to be whereyour resources are going to lie.
I think to Jeff's point.
There are a lot of other goodresources, but you do have to be
careful with those.
But, I think that, honestly,that small group is going to
(52:27):
give you the best supportbecause those people are going
to know you best and I don'tthink there's any substitution
for it.
Jeff Jamison (52:47):
I think that's fantastic.
Any other thoughts with that,jeff?
And if you've got a naysayer inthere or somebody that is
basically toxic to your process,make sure that you choose
wisely in who those people are,and there are a lot of very
opinionated people when it comesto cancer treatment.
(53:08):
So opinions are only as good aswhat you pay for them honestly,
and sometimes the free ones arenot very good.
Trisha Jamison (53:18):
Excellent.
Jeff Jamison (53:19):
Good point.
Trisha Jamison (53:20):
Yeah, definitely .
How do you balance scientifictruth with emotional reassurance
?
What role do mindset and faithplay in healing?
Jeff Jamison (53:30):
Isn't she good at this oh my gosh.
These questions Wow Great job.
Dr Steve Anthony (53:37):
Oh, great questions.
Trisha Jamison (53:39):
How good.
Dr Steve Anthony (53:40):
Well, again, I think mindset all goes to how
we were raised, how we wereeducated and what our
environment, how that respondsto us and to me.
I think all of that again goesback to faith.
I mean, you know, if, in theabsence of faith, you're going
(54:00):
to depend upon this world andthe world's going to disappoint
you, in the presence of faithyou're still going to try to
depend on the world, it's stillgoing to disappoint you, but you
know there's a higher callingand a higher purpose, so it
matters less.
So to me it's not the matter ofI'm going to be positive and
defeat this cancer.
It's going to be.
(54:21):
I'm going to live in thismoment and I'm going to continue
to stay grounded in what helpsme face the day-to-day reality.
I love that.
Trisha Jamison (54:29):
I love that, so, so good.
Jeff Jamison (54:31):
You know, and the grounded piece is so important.
Don't you think, Trisha?
Absolutely, you have, and thegrounded piece is so important.
Trisha Jamison (54:35):
Don't you think, Trisha?
Absolutely.
You have to stay grounded.
I think that's just so spot on,so excellent.
Last question If Amber weresitting across from you right
now, not as a case file, but asa mother, what would you say to
her heart, both of you?
Jeff Jamison (54:54):
Well, first of all , I'd echo on what we've already
said was make sure your peopleare close, make sure that you
have your relationships intact,make sure that you are connected
with your heart and with godand then make sure that, with
those things intact, you canachieve whatever happens will be
(55:16):
okay.
Yeah, I think that's great,that's great.
Dr Steve Anthony (55:19):
I think I would be echoing very similar
sentiments, right, I would besaying the one thing about
cancer is it reminds us thatwe're all finite.
You know, life is a fataldisease, as we say, and you know
.
So you take that aspect and youmight feel a little bit more
alive about your surroundingsbecause all of a sudden you're
(55:40):
starting to think of thosemilestones with kids, as she
alluded to, and that's great.
That's a blessing that a lot ofus don't think of because we
always think tomorrow is goingto automatically come.
But then, just like Jack said,I would be saying all right, god
has blessed us with gifts ofmedicine and opportunities
(56:00):
through medicine, and we'regoing to stay grounded with him
as we go through this journey,because we don't know what his
will is, but we know that doingGod's will is never passive,
it's active, right, it's aboutresponding to him, it's about
going to see those doctors, it'sabout going to have those
conversations, and to me I thinkthat's the most important thing
(56:22):
, because none of us guaranteethe outcome.
But at least if we feel likewe're tracking his will in our
lives, which is active, then Ithink we're doing the right
thing.
Jeff Jamison (56:33):
Yeah, let me answer that question with a
story, just a short story.
I had a 58-year-old patientthat was diagnosed we found a
pancreatic cancer.
Now, as you might know in thelistening audience, pancreatic
cancer is usually a baddiagnosis and that means that
(56:55):
usually it can't or it isn'ttreated very well.
The treatments are verydifficult and it's usually very
aggressive and causes some bigdamage for people and they often
don't survive five years.
So this gentleman had a cancerin a place where it looked like
you would be able to do theextensive abdominal surgery that
(57:18):
can remove it and give them ahigher chance for survival.
Well, they chose to dochemotherapy to try and shrink
the tumor and then see that theycould get to it better.
They did that.
It didn't work.
It was infiltrated into a placewhere surgery was going to
cause irreparable damage to theperson, so surgery was not an
(57:41):
option.
So after going through thesetreatments and these options, he
came back to me and said okay,here's my life, here's what's
going on, what do you think Ishould do?
And I said how are you setfinancially?
And he goes I'm okay.
And I said okay, are youworking?
He said, yes, I'm working rightnow.
(58:01):
How is that contributing to theway that you're showing up for
your family right now.
Well, it kind of gets in theway.
It's a busy job.
I'm one of the principals inthis business and it's a it's
kind of a big deal, um, and ifI'm working or not, I said, okay
, you only have one more shot atthis to spend time with your
(58:23):
family.
Take it, let the business go.
You know, and I don't normallytell people to do things.
Um, but this gentleman I said,you know you've got to take this
time and go spend it with thoseyou really really care about.
So fortunately he did and hetook that time and he lived in
(58:45):
the moment and he lived for nowand he cultivated his family
relationships.
He went on some bucket listtrips that he wanted to do
before.
He couldn't do them anymore andthen by the time he was ready
to go or he was just probably aweek away from passing away he
came and saw me again and hesaid you know it's about the end
(59:07):
, but I want to tell you howimportant it was for you to tell
me that I needed to make sure Ilived in now, to tell me that I
needed to make sure I lived innow and that I have.
I'm in a place where I'm happywith all the people.
All my people are happy with me.
I've enjoyed my life and if itends today, I'm okay and it
(59:28):
wasn't a week, and he was dead.
And so so my my gift, that giftto me that he gave me, telling
me that you know, live in themoment, make sure that you know
your today is okay, make surethat you know the people that
you love, that they know youlove them, all of those things.
Trisha Jamison (59:49):
I'm getting emotional about it.
Jeff Jamison (59:51):
But all of those things are way more important
than a job, a superficialsomething else.
So just keeping those things inmind, Great advice.
Trisha Jamison (01:00:05):
Joe, that is so beautiful and, just like Dr
Anthony mentioned, that life isfinite, you know.
Jeff Jamison (01:00:12):
We're built to fall apart.
Trisha Jamison (01:00:14):
We don't appreciate what that means until
it comes down to that moment,and making those decisions are
hard because you want to justkeep going and doing the same
thing that you've always done,but then recognizing that this
is how much time I have, what doI want to do with it?
So thank you so much forsharing that story, jeff, and I
think that that's beautiful.
I remember that.
I remember that was really hard.
(01:00:35):
So, anyway, wow, okay.
So thank you, dr Anthony, yourvoice in this space is so needed
.
And thank you, dr Jeff, foryour incredible insights as well
.
Dr Steve Anthony (01:00:48):
Thank you for having me.
I've enjoyed this, so thank you.
Oh, yes, so much.
Trisha Jamison (01:00:50):
And we all appreciate not only for what you
both know yes, so much.
And we all appreciate, not onlyfor what you both know, but how
much you both care.
I mean it's so evident the careand compassion that you have
for your patients and how badlyyou want to help them and help
heal them, if possible.
So I just love that for both ofyou and it's very, it's heavily
(01:01:11):
felt.
Jeff Jamison (01:01:13):
Thank you.
Trisha Jamison (01:01:13):
Yes, it's heavily felt.
Thank you, yes, and if Amberand every other listener out
there, whether you're facing adiagnosis or walking through
another kind of storm, there issupport for you and we hope this
episode helped you feel seen,heard and a little more grounded
.
And for Amber, thank you somuch for being raw and real with
us and sending in yourquestions.
(01:01:35):
I know that that was hard andwe just wish you luck.
We hope you the best and hopethat this episode was
informative for you.
And before I close, I want tospeak directly to the couples
who might be facing a differentkind of pain, the kind of pain
that builds slowly over time.
Maybe you're barely speaking,maybe the spark is gone, maybe
(01:01:59):
it feels like you're moreroommates than soulmates.
I want you to hear this Lovedoesn't have to feel like a
memory.
It can be rebuilt.
That's why I created my HealingHearts program just for couples
who are on the brink, whoaren't sure if there's anything
left to fight for.
I believe there is, and ifyou're willing to take one brave
(01:02:19):
step forward, I'll walk withyou the rest of the way.
This program is filled withproven tools, vulnerable
conversations and powerfulexercises built from decades of
personal and professionalexperience, and it's designed to
help you reconnect, not justwith each other, but with the
love that brought you togetherin the first place.
(01:02:40):
So, no matter where you'restarting from, there is hope.
You're not alone and you don'thave to figure this out by
yourself.
So if this is you, please reachout to me at Trisha Jamison
Coaching at gmailcom and I'dlove to help support you.
And thank you again to DrAnthony for joining us today.
Again, your insights andexpertise were incredible and
(01:03:00):
you brought words that clarifiedsuch important topics, and we
just appreciate your heart.
And again for Amber and Jeff,you always bring so much to our
conversations as well, and thisjust helped bring up so much
very tender conversation that Itruly believe that countless
others needed to hear today.
(01:03:21):
And to all of you listening,thank you for being part of this
meaningful moment with us.
If today's episode resonatedwith you, please don't forget to
hit subscribe and leave us areview.
It helps us grow thisincredible community of people
who are seeking connection,healing and a better a review.
It helps us grow thisincredible community of people
who are seeking connection,healing and a better way forward
, and please share this episodewith someone who might be facing
(01:03:44):
a hard decision, a medicaldiagnosis, or just needs to know
they're not alone.
Your story matters, yourhealing matters and we're right
here with you.
So if you have a question you'dlike us to explore on a future
episode, we love to hear fromyou.
Please email us at Jamison atgmailcom.
And remember, no matter howheavy things are and how heavy
(01:04:05):
things feel, there's always anext step and there's always
hope.
We'll see you on the nextepisode.
Goodbye everybody.
Jeff Jamison (01:04:11):
Bye, thanks again.
Thanks, steve.
Trisha Jamison (01:04:16):
Thanks for tuning in to the Q& and A files,
delighted to share today's gemsof wisdom with you.
Your questions light up ourshow, fueling the engaging
dialogues that make ourcommunity extra special.
Keep sending your questions toTrisha Jamison coaching at
gmailcom.
Your curiosity is our compass.
Please hit subscribe, spreadthe word and let's grow the
circle of insight and communitytogether.
I'm Trisha Jamison signing off.
(01:04:37):
Stay curious, keep thriving andkeep smiling, and I'll catch
you on the next episode.
Hello and welcome to the Q&A Files, the
ultimate health and wellnessplayground.
I'm your host, Trisha Jamison,a board-certified functional
nutritionist and lifestylepractitioner, ready to lead you
through a world of healthdiscoveries.
Here we dive into a tapestry ofdisease prevention, to
nutrition, exercise, mentalhealth and building strong
relationships, all spiced withdiverse perspectives.
(00:29):
It's not just a podcast, it's acelebration of health, packed
with insights and a twist of fun.
Welcome aboard the Q&A Files,where your questions ignite our
vibrant discussions and lead toa brighter you.
Welcome, wellness warriors, toanother episode of the Q&A Files
.
I'm your host, Trisha Jamison,a functional nutritionist and
lifestyle practitioner and alife coach, and I'm here with my
(00:52):
amazing co-host, dr JeffJamison, a board-certified
family physician.
Hello, dr Jeff.
Jeff Jamison (00:57):
Hello, How's it going everybody?
Trisha Jamison (00:59):
Yeah, so glad to have him here.
Well, today's episode is goingto be both powerful and personal
.
We're responding to a very rawand emotional question from a
mom who has just been told shehas cancer a moment that changes
everything.
While Tony Overbay won't bejoining us today, we're honored
to have a remarkable guest withus, someone whose experience and
(01:21):
heart are exactly what thisconversation calls for.
Whose experience and heart areexactly what this conversation
calls for, and I'm super excitedto introduce our guest, dr
Stephen P Anthony, who is theSenior Vice President of
Clinical Development for HaleaTherapeutics and the Chief
Medical Officer for New WavePharmaceuticals.
He brings over 30 years ofclinical experience in
(01:42):
hematology and oncology drugdevelopment and has worked in
academic, private and industrysectors.
He's also a leading expert inprecision medicine, with a deep
understanding of genomicmechanisms of disease.
Despite his demanding researchroles, dr Anthony still chooses
to see patients, demonstratinghis heart and humanity behind
(02:05):
his work.
Dr Anthony received his medicaldegree from the Philadelphia
College of Osteopathic Medicine.
He completed his internalmedicine residency at Hahnemann
University Hospital and finishedhis fellowship in hematology
and oncology at Dartmouth.
He also served as a flightsurgeon during the Gulf War with
the United States Air Force.
(02:25):
Dr Steve Anthony is a veryrespected physician and a great
colleague of Dr Jeff's.
Dr Anthony, we're so honored tohave you here with us today,
and welcome to our show.
Dr Steve Anthony (02:38):
Delighted to be here and happy to answer
questions.
Jeff Jamison (02:43):
We're really excited to have you with us.
And just for our listeners.
Dr Anthony and I have beenfriends for gosh 15 or 20 years
and we've worked together onmultiple patients in clinical
settings and I find him one ofmy greatest resources when it
(03:03):
comes to hematology, oncology.
And there are oftentimes, eventhis week, that I've sent him
questions about hey, I got thisperson and here are these labs,
what do I do?
And he's been so kind andgenerous to be able to help me
through a lot of difficultquestions.
So we're here for another one.
Trisha Jamison (03:19):
Yeah.
So this is going to be great,but one of the things that we
like to start off our shows arecelebrations, so we're going to
have Jeff start.
But one of the things that welike to start off our shows are
celebrations, so we're going tohave Jeff start first.
But we just want to celebratewhat's going well in our life,
things that we're lookingforward to.
Jeff Jamison (03:35):
What are some celebrations you both, gentlemen
, have?
Well, you know, it's funnybecause I was thinking about
this, because I knew this wasgoing to happen, happen, and I
kind of just did it because I'mreally thankful and grateful for
my friendship and collegialrelationship with Dr Anthony.
Steve and I, again, have beenfriends for a long time.
We have lunch together often andwe get to spend time talking
(03:59):
about life and things, yeah,when he's in town, and it's just
been a wonderful and upliftingrelationship in my life and so
I'm very grateful for SteveAnthony for me.
Trisha Jamison (04:12):
Oh, fantastic.
Steve, would you like to sharea celebration you have?
Dr Steve Anthony (04:17):
Well, certainly I can echo the same
sentiment.
Certainly, working with DrJamison has been great.
You're such an astute physician.
I love how you take time withpatients.
You ask the right questions.
A lot of physicians don't askthe right questions.
You clearly do, and you knowit's great.
I so enjoy the professionalrelationship, the personal
relationship.
(04:37):
You know it's been a realblessing in my life and I think
every day that I wake up and Ihave good health, I really count
that as a blessing, because youknow what, just like this
moment we're about to talk about, you know your world can get
upended at any moment.
We don't think that.
We probably should.
And I really start off with theblessing of the day to be that
(05:00):
I'm alive and well and here toserve another day.
Jeff Jamison (05:03):
That's right.
Thank you, steve, that's right.
Thank you, steve, that'sawesome.
Trisha Jamison (05:06):
Beautiful, and my celebration is not about
medicine, but it is about family, and next week we're going to
be going to Disneyland with manyof our grandchildren and our
children, and so we're meetingthem there and we're going to
spend a week and we're superexcited.
It'll be super fun.
Jeff Jamison (05:25):
It will be fun.
Trisha Jamison (05:27):
All right.
So before we dive in today'slistener question, I'd love to
give our audience a chance toget to know the person behind
the powerful credentials.
Dr Anthony, out of all theroles you've held physician,
researcher, military officer,innovator what has been the most
meaningful or formative part ofyour journey?
Dr Steve Anthony (05:47):
that's a great question.
Um, outside of being a dad,it's hard to top that, but I
think you know what,professionally, I think you know
every role honestly just leadsinto the next role, right?
So whether I was in privatepractice or whether I was in
academic practice, there wasalways this background of
(06:08):
research and it always wasdriving me to say we need better
drugs.
And then the opportunity cameup to be in industry.
More often than not and thatoccurred almost eight years ago
now and I have to say thatthat's been probably one of the
more special aspects of mycareer, because it blends all of
(06:29):
that clinical background thatI've had for over 25 years into
what I now need to do at a verydifferent level.
And if I didn't have thathybrid experience, if I was just
a physician, scientist orsomething like that, I think it
would maybe be less impactful.
Trisha Jamison (06:49):
I love that Very profound.
Jeff Jamison (06:52):
And the interesting thing to me is how
that plays out in the way hecoaches people along the way
like me, who need help, and Ijust appreciate his vast
experience.
Dr Anthony is very likely oneof the brightest humans I know.
And I have enjoyed being ableto be the recipient of his
(07:14):
wisdom, and so what an honor wehave to be here with him.
Trisha Jamison (07:18):
Well, and I also love the first thing he said is
that outside of being a dad, Ialmost actually put dad in there
, but I knew you'd probably saythat first.
But I mean, that just shows whoyou are, so I love that part.
Yeah, thank you.
So is there a particularpatient or experience that
changed the way you practicemedicine or how you approach
(07:39):
healing?
Dr Steve Anthony (07:40):
Oh, that's a great question.
I think there are a number ofcases.
That's a great question.
I think there are a number ofcases.
I remember, in particular,being quite moved by a patient
who had a traumatic injury whenI was a resident, and in fact it
was terrible.
Her former husband ran her overwith a car.
Trisha Jamison (08:01):
Oh, my gosh On purpose.
Dr Steve Anthony (08:03):
Yes, on purpose, fractures her pelvis
and everything else and it wasprobably one of the first
patients that I really had achance to maybe know a little
bit more personally because Iwas rounding on her every day
and we had a chance to havedialogue Probably one of the
first patients I prayed with inthe hospital, and I think it was
(08:25):
really them that it took thehumanity of disease at a deeper
level.
You know what I mean.
It was all of a sudden, it waslike you know, all right, this
is a human, this is a crisis,this is how we're going to help
them out, this is how we'regoing to go forward.
And I think, equally, duringthe same time, during my
(08:46):
residency, I was exposed tohematology and oncology patients
and I think, honestly, whathumbled me was that these people
were dealing with incrediblelife-threatening diseases and
yet the spirit of most of themwas exceptional and I thought
the people treating them wereexceptional and I thought, boy,
what a perfect intersection.
(09:07):
Right, you've got a life in acrisis, you've got people, for
the most part, who are kind oflooking at life a bit
differently because of thecrisis, and then you have people
with the gifts from God beingable to come in and really try
to help intervene.
So really a perfectintersection of life.
Trisha Jamison (09:26):
A gift from God.
I love that, because I love howyou integrate faith into your
practice and how important andmeaningful that is for the
patient too, and that you prayedwith her.
Wow, that's so powerful.
Thank you for sharing that.
Dr Steve Anthony (09:42):
Of course.
Trisha Jamison (09:43):
So you made time to continue seeing patients
even with a full schedule inyour research career.
Dr Steve Anthony (09:52):
What keeps you grounded in direct patient care
.
I enjoy it, you know.
I mean, I think as a matter offact I would say I enjoy it even
more since I'm not doing itfull time Because it's a real
opportunity to get in and bewith the patient, probably give
even a little bit more than whatI did when I was seeing them on
a daily basis, you know.
(10:13):
So it's to me again.
It just it makes thatconnection of what we're doing
so much more real, right, andwhen I'm seeing patients whose
diseases are unfortunatelymarching ahead, it's a humble
reminder of where we need to go,you know, and if you're not
seeing patients, if you're notinteracting at that level, you
(10:35):
know you do get a littledisconnected.
Trisha Jamison (10:38):
Sure, absolutely , jeff.
Do you have anything to add tothat?
Jeff Jamison (10:42):
Oh my, how do you stay grounded.
You know, I think for me, myimmersion in patient care, the
way that I stay grounded, is toget out of it a little bit.
(11:06):
And the way I stay grounded isto be able to extract myself
from the day-to-day problems ofeach of the patients, because it
really can be overwhelming.
And when I'm seeing, you know,30 people a day and they have
varied good and bad problemsgoing on sometimes for me I've
got to get into a place where Ican remember my faith, I can
remember my family and I canremember to take care of myself.
And and those are those are hardthings to do when you're
(11:27):
immersed in caring for others.
So much so for me I you knowwe've talked about in this
podcast other times that I Ilove to spend time with my
family and the fact that we'regoing to Disneyland for a week.
That'll be a great time for meto just sort of unplug.
Also, I love to even for anhour or so here and there to
(11:51):
just get up in the air in anairplane and just take a God's
eye view of things and justthank my maker for the beauty
around me and then I can diveright back into and become the
physician and the confidant topeople and the healer that
(12:13):
otherwise it's necessary for meto do.
Trisha Jamison (12:16):
And I can attest to that.
When he's super stressed andthen he gets out, especially, it
can go five for not very long.
He just comes back such adifferent person and so everyone
needs that, everyone needs thatout, whatever that is for you.
So you've been at the forefrontof precision medicine.
Is there a breakthrough orcurrent project you're
(12:36):
especially excited about, andwhat could it mean for future
treatment options?
You?
Dr Steve Anthony (12:42):
know.
I think we're starting to lookat genomics differently.
We've always we've had genomicsfor decades now, but the
precision of which we can lookat things is radically changing
how we're going after diseases.
It's apparent that if you carrybad genes, that you're at risk
for developing disease, but noteveryone who carries those bad
(13:05):
genes actually develops disease.
So the question is is that whatis special about those people
that protects them fromdeveloping the disease?
And that's an area oftherapeutics that we're starting
to look at, which is reallyinteresting.
And unless you have the toolswhere you're looking at very
large families and you'relooking at them over generations
(13:30):
, ideally with genomicinformation you can really begin
to pick apart what are thoseprotective effects.
So, rather than just dealingwith the end result of the
disease, can we actually nowmake the next leap forward,
which is trying to preventdisease from occurring, not only
(13:53):
in at-risk people, but could ithelp with people who already
have established disease?
Could you reverse the diseaseby intervening, so we now have
the ability to develop drugs tomimic what the body can do in
those circumstances?
So it really is.
It really is going afterdisease earlier rather than
chasing the disease that'sestablished.
Jeff Jamison (14:14):
Oh, I love that because so many diseases that we
work with as physicians.
The problem is that you knowthe cat's out of the bag by the
time we get a hold of it, andwhen we do, it's a losing battle
in a lot of ways, and I justappreciate the almost
preventative nature of whatyou're doing now.
Trisha Jamison (14:36):
Right, Right, yeah, it makes sense.
Jeff Jamison (14:39):
Yeah, yeah, wow.
It's way over my head.
I'm looking into those thingsat this point, but I just really
enjoy hearing about the newadvances.
It's really fun.
Trisha Jamison (14:50):
Well, and it's just incredible to think that
there's something like that outthere that could help people
hopefully in the near future,and so, wow, that is just so
great to know.
Thank you?
Jeff Jamison (15:02):
Yeah, you're welcome.
Great to know.
Trisha Jamison (15:03):
Thank you.
That's awesome For listenerswho may not fully understand the
field.
Can you explain what makeshematology and oncology such a
unique and challenging area ofmedicine?
Dr Steve Anthony (15:15):
Great question .
So hematology is the study ofblood, and it can be both benign
diseases, which means thatthey're not cancer, or it can be
true cancers of the bloodsystem, and so a benign
hematology condition is anemia.
Low blood Could be somethingsimple.
Dr Jamison often treats irondeficiency anemia or B12
(15:36):
deficiency or Foley deficiency,or you could have something like
a leukemia, and leukemias caneither be acute, which make
people very sick and can bedifficult to recover, or they
can be chronic, which you canlive with for years, if not
decades.
So that's hematology, andoncology is basically the
spectrum of cancer.
(15:56):
So it can be early cancer or itcan be established cancer.
So in the case of today, whatwe'll be talking about later is
you can either have anon-invasive breast cancer,
which means it has not got outof the cells, or you can have an
invasive breast cancer, and sowe deal with the whole spectrum
(16:17):
of anything that iscancer-producing.
Or for me, and then as amedical oncologist, we don't
deal with the surgery, we don'tdeal with the radiation, but we
deal with the medications thatwe prescribe, which could be
chemotherapy, which everyonedreads, but nowadays it's really
(16:37):
a bunch of drugs thatnecessarily aren't there.
So there are many types ofchemotherapy and people always
think of chemotherapy as theintravenous stuff that just
makes you deathly ill.
Fortunately, that's less of thecase nowadays because of
supportive medications, butreally we talk about any type of
drug that can target a cancer,whether it's blocking hormones,
(17:01):
which we often use in breastcancer or prostate cancer, or if
it's blocking a specificpathway.
We were talking about genomicsearlier, and through genomics
we've been able to detectcertain susceptibilities for
certain cancers.
So, for instance, there'ssomething called chronic myeloid
leukemia, or CML, and it turnsout that it's one of the few
(17:25):
blood cancers that is addictedto a specific bad gene called
BCR-ABL, and we actually havedrugs that target just BCR-ABL
and for the most part, outsideof giving a little bit of maybe
nausea or some loose stools,they're exceptionally
well-tolerated and we have awhole spectrum of pills now that
(17:48):
we can prescribe to people thataren't the intensive
chemotherapy that people think.
So the thing is is we have alot of options on how to help
patients out.
It's a matter of trying tomatch the right drug or the
combination of drugs that thepatient needs at that time.
Jeff Jamison (18:06):
You know, I think one of the things that people
are so concerned about is thatchemotherapy thing, and when
people hear chemotherapy theyimmediately think hair falling
out, nausea, vomiting, weightloss and feeling worse than the
cancer was making them feel.
And the nice thing is that thatis not the case nearly so much
(18:31):
anymore although it still doeshappen, depending on the type of
cancer and the treatmentnecessary.
I love how it's become morepinpointed and directed rather
than here.
We're going to make all of yousick just to try and get rid of
a few sick cells.
Dr Steve Anthony (18:49):
Right.
Jeff Jamison (18:50):
Right, I agree.
Dr Steve Anthony (18:51):
Well, our supportive care drugs are much
better than what we hadpreviously and that makes a huge
difference.
You know, and like everythingin life, is risk to benefit?
Right, we all drive cars, butwe know about 50,000 people died
last year, right, so we allwear our seatbelts.
Hopefully, we pay attention tothe rules of the road and we
usually get to our destinationsafely.
(19:12):
And it's the same thing withchemotherapy.
It's like, okay, well, we'regoing to have to pay attention
to some rules, we're going toput on our seatbelts, we're
going to take the right stuff inadvance and we should get to
our destination safely.
So I think that we can remove alot of the scare with terms,
because it's like everything, ifpeople have a bad experience,
(19:32):
you're more likely to hear aboutit than a good experience, and
that's unfortunate, butcertainly that's what happens.
Jeff Jamison (19:39):
It's human nature, though they're going to focus
on the negatives.
And how many times have weheard that a person has to hear
like 10 times the number ofpositives, even though they hear
one negative about themselves?
Trisha Jamison (19:52):
they're going to focus on that and not the
hundred positive things aboutthemselves that's right well and
it's just, but it's such anegative experience and so I
think that that's very loud fora lot of people too right well,
I'm just talking about thosethat go through the chemotherapy
and they do have the hair lossand the nausea and the vomiting
(20:13):
I mean.
So that is very loud.
Dr Steve Anthony (20:14):
So you hear about those stories.
Trisha Jamison (20:18):
Okay, awesome, thank you.
On a more personal note, welove spotlighting the human side
of our guests and we'd love foryou to tell us a little bit
about your family.
How has your career shaped, orbeen shaped, by your role as a
husband, a father and agrandfather?
Dr Steve Anthony (20:36):
So it's been great.
It's a balancing act.
I don't admit that I've alwaysdone it perfectly, but the good
news is that who does?
Yeah, the good news is, I feelthat the kids have felt that I
was there consistentlythroughout the school years and
afterwards and that therecontinues to be a really strong
(21:00):
relationship.
I think they see medicine assomething that's very good but
very demanding, and I think theyalso look at how I try to
balance things.
You know it's not just allmedicine.
You know I have plenty ofoutside interests that keep me
well occupied, and whether thoseare things with the kids
they're now older it's kind offun to do things with them
(21:23):
rather than taking them.
Grandkids are a little bitdifferent, you know, but it's
been a real balancing act.
But I think it's been good andI think the family has grown to
appreciate what medicine meansand I think certainly, as they
get older, they certainlyunderstand medicine a lot better
(21:43):
.
It's harder when you're a kid,that's for sure.
Trisha Jamison (21:47):
Absolutely, and not understanding the demands
that dad has is sometimesconfusing to children.
So as they grow older they'reable to kind of grasp that
concept a little bit more.
You know dad's just not there,why he missed my baseball game,
why Birthday parties, why, andthen, as they grow older, they
(22:09):
recognize and appreciate so muchmore of what he does.
What you both do yeah,definitely.
Thank you so much for sharingthe personal side of you.
I think that's always soimportant too, and I think a lot
of times, even with physicians,it's so imperative to feel that
side of the profession, becausea lot of times you don't feel
(22:30):
that from a lot of physicians,and so I just I love that and
you're so personable anyway, andI just wanted to share a little
bit more about your family.
It's clear you both bringexpertise and heart into the
space you're both in, and whenJeff talked about you're the
most brilliant person.
I think that you both are quitebrilliant in what you do
specifically.
(22:50):
So I'm so grateful to have youboth here and that's exactly why
we're bringing Dr Anthony tothis next question, and it comes
from a listener and her name isAmber, and it's an incredibly
real and vulnerable question.
She says.
My name is Amber, I'm 42 yearsold and I'm a mom to four
beautiful kids, all still athome.
(23:12):
Just a few days ago, I heard thewords no one ever wants to hear
you have breast cancer.
Everything in my world shiftedin that moment.
I'm scared scared for my kids,scared for my future, scared for
making the wrong choice.
I keep picturing my children attheir milestones graduations,
weddings and wondering if I'mever going to be there and,
(23:34):
honestly, the fear isn't justabout the cancer.
It's also about the treatment.
I don't want to become so sickfrom chemo or radiation that I
lose who I am before I even geta chance to fight.
Now, everything and everyone Iturn to people are giving me
advice.
Some say stick with traditionalmedicine.
Others tell me to go to Mexico,try the natural cures.
(23:56):
It's overwhelming, it'sconfusing and every minute that
passes I feel the pressuremounting like time is slipping
through my fingers.
I feel overwhelmed and lost.
I don't want to waste precioustime chasing treatments that
don't work, but I also don'twant to endure needless
suffering.
If there are better options outthere, how do I even begin to
(24:18):
figure out the right path for me?
How can someone like me scared,overwhelmed and desperately
trying to make the best decisionfor herself and her family
navigate all this and find realhope and real healing.
First of all, amber, thank youso much for being willing to
share such a raw and vulnerablepart of your story.
(24:38):
Your question is so verypowerful and I know it speaks to
the heart of countless others.
So, dr Anthony, I can onlyimagine how many ambers you've
sat with over the years.
When someone receives adiagnosis like this, especially
as a mother, what's the firstthing you want them to know?
(25:00):
And, jeff, you can answer thatquestion as well, because I know
, know you've had patients thatyou've also had.
Jeff Jamison (25:04):
Yeah, I have these first conversations fairly
often.
Trisha Jamison (25:07):
Right, so both of you please share.
Jeff Jamison (25:09):
Go ahead, steve, you've got the depth.
Dr Steve Anthony (25:14):
Well, it's interesting.
I always try to remember thatthe word fear is an acronym for
false evidence appearing real,and I think that is, for me,
grounding.
Now, part of that's because offaith.
Right, we know where our hopeis.
And people will always say DrAnthony, give me some hope.
(25:36):
And I say well, I can tell youthis that I define hope as a
spiritual quality based upon arelationship with God.
Trisha Jamison (25:46):
I love that.
When you say that again, justrepeat that that is so good.
Dr Steve Anthony (25:51):
So hope is a spiritual quality that's based
upon a relationship with God,and optimism is that incredible
human quality that believes wecan overcome anything in front
of us.
So to me, I can never give hope.
It's a spiritual relationship.
I can be optimistic with you,but my hope always has to remain
in God.
(26:12):
And cancer is such a scary word,it disarms you.
I mean you think, look, I'velost family and friends due to
cancer.
And it's never easy.
Even as an oncologist or ahematologist it's never easy to
go through that process.
But there's one thing that I doknow, and that is everyone's
journey is so individual.
(26:34):
Everyone's journey is soindividual, and I look at the
opportunity to meet the patientas to really try to focus on
what their stage is, becausestage one breast cancer is
markedly different than stagefour.
Stage four means it's spread.
Stage one means it's localized.
Stage two means it's localized.
(26:54):
Even three means that it'sadvanced, but it's's localized.
Stage two means it's localized.
Even three means that it'sadvanced, but it's still
localized.
So understanding the stagehelps put the context of what
are we really dealing with.
And then, once we even knowsimple things like the stage and
we have a lot of tools to helpus accurately stage people with
cancer, and that includesimaging, blood work and so forth
(27:17):
.
Once we know that, then we canoutline a treatment course.
And the treatment course is inmost cases, almost always
multidisciplinary, which meansthat we're going to potentially
have a surgeon, we're going tohave someone like myself, we're
going to have someone like aradiation oncologist, because
there's no one-stop shoppingtypically with cancer.
(27:38):
Now, if it's a very earlycancer, it may only need surgery
, but then there would besurveillance and that's where
someone like Dr Jamison ormyself comes in as part of the
surveillance.
If it's a little bit moreadvanced, then yes, I may need
to step in, or we may needradiation, and someone like
myself.
Then, yes, I may need to stepin, or we may need radiation,
(28:00):
and some of them like myself.
And the one thing I tell peopleabout traditional medicine,
because there's a lot of greatantidotes out there and people
will say, look, you know I tookhydrogen peroxide and it killed
the cancer and you know what.
That's a great story.
I like that story actuallymyself.
But you know what, at least themedicines I give people, I can
tell you what the actualresponses are, and it's not
(28:23):
going to be 100%, but at leastit's not going to be antidote
and I'm going to have thebenefit of other people who have
done clinical research, otherpatients who, through, hopefully
, altruism, where they weremotivated, not just for
themselves but for the greatergood of unanimity, to
participate in a trial to helpidentify what is the best
(28:45):
therapy.
And so, even though traditionalmedicine has some failures, at
least you know that outright.
You know, if I go back to thehydrogen peroxide, it's not like
I can tell people why.
I read a paper and there were athousand people treated with it
and you know, maybe it was twoout of the thousand responded.
(29:05):
But if the medicine I'm givingyou works in 500 out of a
thousand, it probably makessense to take that treatment
over something that rarely works, to take that treatment over
something that rarely works.
So it's all a matter ofinformation and I think one of
the biggest things for patientsis to really have that
(29:25):
conversation with theironcologist.
And what does that conversationfeel like?
And then it never hurts to geta second opinion.
Dr Jamison knows better than Ido.
It's always a matter of tryingto find the personality as well
as the expertise.
And you know what?
Sometimes the expertise is notlocal, and it even boils down to
(29:49):
simple things.
I know we're talking aboutbreast cancer, but for years
people would ask me about bonemarrow transplants in the local
area.
For years people would ask meabout bone marrow transplants in
the local area and I'd say, yes, you can get it done here
locally.
But the institution that didthe very first bone marrow
transplant in the world is fourhours away.
I would go to someone who has 50years of experience versus
(30:10):
someone who has 10.
So it's a matter ofunderstanding what your
resources are within thecommunity, and there's a lot of
well-intentioned people outthere.
But the one good thing abouttraditional medicine is at least
we know what it brings and youalso have the opportunity to use
newer drugs, and with theseother alternatives it's really
(30:36):
less of an unknown.
And I think that's the bigworry.
And when she talks about Idon't want to waste time, you
know what I mean.
It's I hear you.
And, by the way, wait is a fourletter word to a cancer patient
.
So we don't want people to wait.
Okay, we don't want people towaste time, right, but we want
(30:56):
them to have effective use oftime, and so it's important to
begin to make that journey.
But that journey is going tohave a number of steps, and it
starts with getting information.
That's foundational in how youfeel that.
I love that, yeah.
Jeff Jamison (31:12):
I appreciate that too, dr Anthony.
I love the way you look athaving understanding,
information and experience andusing all of those together to
form a treatment plan.
Trisha Jamison (31:29):
And keeping that optimism in place too.
I love that as well.
Jeff Jamison (31:33):
You know the hard part.
You know there's a lot ofalternative therapies out there
which are and you bring up theword anecdotal or it's an
anecdote and that's the thingthat is.
The big difference is you don'tget in the anecdotal therapies
any real hard data that says,yes, this is really helpful
(31:59):
because and this is where it'sworking.
But the hard part I find for alot of people in the lay
population they look at this aswell.
My grandfather had this problemand he went through
chemotherapy and it was terribleand he died anyway.
(32:20):
Or they hear this that somebodywent to Mexico and had a red
light therapy for 13 weeks andspent $15,000 on their therapy
plus and they got spa treatmentswhile they were there and and
they feel like this is the wayto go.
And I just don't have a goodanswer as far as to tell them
(32:44):
what they can expect from thingslike that.
But I think the one thing thatyou do get with that is that it
improves their optimism and whena person's optimism is improved
and they think they're going todo better, they often will for
a time.
You know the whole placeboeffect thing and sometimes it's
(33:05):
not.
I just don't even know.
Trisha Jamison (33:08):
So what's the first thing you would share with
her?
What would you want her to know?
Jeff Jamison (33:13):
Well, the first thing I'd want to share with her
is that there's great peoplewith good treatment and have
good reasons to get a hold ofthis quickly.
And if you have an invasive youknow adductor carcinoma of the
breast that often moves quicklyand you don't want to wait
(33:34):
around and say, well, you know,I'm going to try this treatment
or that treatment and hope forthe best, because you just might
be behind the eight ball untilyet and then you really have to
get aggressive, and I don't knowthat I would do that, I, you
know.
It really just comes down to aperson's comfort level and what
they feel like they can handle.
(33:54):
But I think they need to havelots of information before they
make a choice.
Trisha Jamison (34:00):
Okay, that's perfect.
Jeff Jamison (34:01):
Thank you and I want them to have the best
experts involved as well.
Trisha Jamison (34:05):
Definitely, definitely so.
Amber talks about being floodedwith advice, from traditional
medicine to natural cures inMexico.
So how can someone begin tosort through all the noise and
find a path that's right forthem?
Dr Steve Anthony (34:20):
Well, that's a challenge, right, and I think
it boils down to what do youreally believe is generating
that information for you?
So, for instance, I think allof us would agree that
information is power.
And the power that you get frominformation is to be able to
(34:40):
make a rational decision aboutsomething, and you know,
sometimes panic will cause us tomake irrational decisions.
Trisha Jamison (34:49):
Right.
Dr Steve Anthony (34:49):
But this is not about panicking.
This is about takinginformation and hearing.
Is it consistent?
And I would say the one thingabout alternative therapies,
which are intriguing and I thinkwe need to continue to explore,
is that you won't hear theguidance on alternative
(35:10):
therapies consistently expressedor explained, or even given
from one group to another groupto another group, whereas if you
look at traditional medicine,it's typically offered
consistently, maybe styles alittle bit differently, but it's
going to be offeredconsistently because we know
that's what works.
(35:31):
And so if you have somethingthat you're not sure about and
everyone's given it a little bitdifferent, which is the problem
with alternative medicine thenthat's, I think, where it gets a
little bit scary.
And I think the other biggerthing is who supports you.
If your family is local, Ithink you would want to get
therapy local, to be supportedby your family.
Trisha Jamison (35:53):
Right, and you need that at that time for sure.
Dr Steve Anthony (35:56):
You need that at that time.
Yeah, you need all of thoseresources, whether it's family,
whether it's friends, whetherit's church, whatever is
supporting you.
You need that community tosupport you on this journey.
But I think you have a greatterm.
You talk about noise and thereis a lot of noise and I think,
(36:18):
again, we're all supposed to bevehicles of the gifts that God
gets us and hopefully we'reusing those in an honest way and
I know, at least with what wedo in traditional medicine, I
feel that it is an honestrepresentation of what he has to
offer us and to me, there's alot of grounding that has to go
(36:39):
back in faith.
Jeff Jamison (36:41):
So agree I think that's fantastic.
Trisha Jamison (36:42):
I love that.
Okay, so you specialize inprecision medicine.
Could you share more on howthat personalized approach based
on genomics can influencecancer treatment options today?
Dr Steve Anthony (36:56):
Yeah, that's a great question.
So I mean, like in this personwe're talking about, we'll have
to need BRCA testing, which arethe genes that are susceptible
to cancer, and in the old dayswe did that because it would
affect family members, but nowwe actually have therapies that
are directed for those.
But procedure medicine reallyhas its stay in diseases in
(37:17):
which there's no standard ofcare for either second, third or
fourth line therapy.
So in my previous practiceprobably about a third of it was
second opinions and peoplewould often come and say I have
no options and to me we woulduse genomic profiling, which we
(37:38):
did on the cancer cells thatwere in them.
We would take a sample, usuallythrough interventional
radiology, send it off to areference lab and there are
numbers, there are a number ofthem that are out there now and
we would get back the genomicdetails and that would tell us
if there was a targeted therapythat we could use for those
people.
(37:59):
And you know what?
That's actually a great way togo, because if you were to take
the earliest type of clinicaltrials that means a drug that's
never been tested in a cancerpatient your chance of success
is about 10 to 15 percent% Ifyou use genomic profiling, that
number could maybe go as high asup to 60%, or even higher, oh
(38:23):
my goodness.
So there's real opportunitiesto help patients.
You just need the information.
You'd be surprised how manypeople just don't have that
information.
Jeff Jamison (38:31):
And then what to do with that information.
Trisha Jamison (38:33):
Well, and do you think that it's the physician
that's not giving theinformation?
Do you feel like I mean?
What is the reason that thepatient's not getting that
information?
Dr Steve Anthony (38:42):
Well, you have to be knowledgeable about it,
right.
You have to know that it exists.
You have to know how to use it,right.
Trisha Jamison (38:47):
The doctor needs to know okay.
Dr Steve Anthony (38:49):
I mean you get back a 20 page report.
Who wants to read that?
You know?
But you know it's part of thecommitment to help the patients,
right?
So I spend part of my timecounseling other physicians,
usually actually around theworld, on how to interpret these
genomic tests so they can helpmake better decisions for their
(39:09):
patients.
But it's a commitment and a lotof physicians don't want to do
it.
It's too much time.
It's sad to say that, but it isyeah physicians don't want to
do it.
Jeff Jamison (39:18):
It's too much time .
It's sad to say that, but it is.
Yeah, I can relate to thepressures that physicians face
on a day-to-day basis trying toabsorb the information necessary
to be knowledgeable in theseareas, and I can understand also
why it's really important tomake sure that you're connected
with people who have actuallygone through the training and
(39:38):
know how to look.
They know what they're lookingfor, and one of the things that
I mean I get reports all daylong reports from ERs, reports
from specialists, reports fromthis and that and the other, and
after you digest enough reports, you know where to look for
what you're looking for, and sothat's one of the cool things I
(39:59):
imagine that you can do whenyou're looking at a genomic
report is to go, okay, thisperson has this type of cancer,
I want to see how thisparticular gene reacted, and you
can focus in in that 20-pagereport down to one or two pages
probably, and you probablythat's all you really need, but
you have to digest enough ofthem to be able to know where
(40:21):
you're looking.
Dr Steve Anthony (40:23):
Yeah, I agree.
I agree, Experience counts.
Jeff Jamison (40:26):
Yep, and it's hard to find.
Whew, how do you even find theright people?
And that's a thing that I'mfortunate to have resources like
Dr Anthony to be able to whenI'm confronted with a person
that has a new cancer, whetherand I see them all whether it's
(40:49):
breast cancer or brain cancer orliver cancer you name it, I'm
often the person who finds itfirst somehow, and so I've got
to have kind of a broad spectrumof what do you do with these
generally?
Trisha Jamison (41:05):
Now.
Jeff Jamison (41:05):
I cannot do it to the level that Dr Anthony does,
and I would never even want totry.
But you're not supposed to wouldnever even want to try but to
have people like Dr Anthony.
But fortunately for me, I havepeople like Dr Anthony.
So when I find this and Iusually immediately bring a
(41:25):
person in as absolutely fast asI can and talk to them in person
, and before then I've done somehomework to be able to say,
okay, this is the kind of canceryou have.
These are likely the things youhave to expect.
Here's who I'm going to set youup with so that you can get the
best care possible.
So I've got an idea of what I'mdoing before I show up with the
(41:48):
patient there.
I don't know, what do you thinkwe should do?
Patient?
That's part of doing a good jobfor a person is doing your
homework.
Trisha Jamison (41:59):
And that's what family practice does is they set
up those physicians?
They answer the questions thatthey can and I love that.
And I've heard so many timesfrom your patients, jeff, what
you've done for them and howyou've been able to take care of
them and you've been able tonavigate that path for them that
has once been so scary, howyou've been able to take care of
them and you've been able tonavigate that path for them.
That has once been so scary,and you've been able to fill in
(42:21):
those gaps and fill in thatinformation for them.
So I think that that's justreally awesome.
Jeff Jamison (42:27):
One of the things, though, is that this is just
you know.
I think Dr Anthony and I sharearesponsibility as physicians to
do the best that we can withthe knowledge that we have and
to be able to find new knowledgeas it becomes available and
maybe we even discover it.
(42:47):
Found some treatments that arebasically specific to me, that
other people don't do, justbecause I found them to be
successful, and so in that wayit's anecdotal to me, but they
do seem to work on a great basis.
(43:08):
But when you're dealing with alot of different people with
cancer, having a really goodsense of what works in this
situation and what thefirst-line treatments are, that
is something I depend on DrAnthony and his colleagues to be
the point people on.
Trisha Jamison (43:28):
So do you both feel like cancer has increased
dramatically in the last decade?
Dr Steve Anthony (43:33):
I think, so, yeah, I think we're aware of
earlier cancers because ofscreening.
Yeah, that's, true I thinkmortality is down, so it tells
me that we're making an impact.
But I think you have peoplelike Dr Jameis out there doing
screenings that we weren't doingand we're picking up things.
Jeff Jamison (43:51):
So that's good news because it may be going up,
but it's earlier stage cancersand that's a good news because
(44:17):
it may be going up, but it'searlier stage cancers and I
think that's a good thing, andit's done during a thing called
an adult wellness visit.
The adult wellness visit is alot of times poo-pooed by
patients thinking, oh, this is awaste of time, I don't really
need to do that, I've alreadyhad lab work done here or there
and so I don't need to do it.
But what happens is this is aparticular time where we can
actually go through and look ateach system and decide if there
(44:41):
are screening tests that theyhave or have not done to make
sure that their chances ofcancer, osteoporosis, other
things that are continuallycausing problems for people that
we can get in front of thembefore.
They're a big deal and theycost the patient both time,
money and pain.
Trisha Jamison (45:01):
Well, and Dr Anthony just shared that he's
got some testing, that he's awellness check, that he's going
in for himself personally, andso I think even physicians need
to make sure that they're takingcare of themselves and getting
in and being screened, becausesometimes you think that you're
good, but you need to rememberthat you're still human and you
(45:23):
run into problems too, and Ithink that so often patients
take precedence, family takesprecedence and oftentimes you do
not take care of yourself.
So I was so glad to hear, drAnthony, that you've got that
taken care of, because there'ssome things that Jeff has been
putting off.
Jeff Jamison (45:39):
Yeah, it's time for some stuff for me.
Dr Steve Anthony (45:42):
Well, I have a very good doctor, and I see him
in the middle of the screenright now.
Jeff Jamison (45:48):
Oh, thank you, Steve.
Yeah, it is the case, though,that people need to do a good
job with this and not to poo-pootheir general physicals.
Trisha Jamison (45:59):
Yes, listen to the doctors here.
Jeff Jamison (46:02):
The other thing that's interesting I have to
just quickly point out is thatphysicals like this are not
meant for taking care of acuteproblems.
A lot of people come in with alaundry list that a physical is
where you fix all the problemsthat are going on right now.
That's not their purpose.
Their purpose is to make surethat your generalized screening
(46:23):
tests are taken care of and thatyou can be rescheduled for
acute issues.
It's kind of like if you go tothe dentist for a cleaning, the
dentist is not going to takecare of a cavity right then and
there, even if they find it.
So you think of it like goingin for a cleaning at the dentist
and then you get rescheduledfor other things like that.
Yeah, that's a smart analogy.
Trisha Jamison (46:45):
Yeah, I think that's really good point.
Thank you for bringing that up.
Yeah, okay, so Amber's fearisn't just about cancer, it's
about the toll of the treatment,and I think we talked about
that early on that a lot ofpeople are afraid of that.
So what are some of the lessaggressive or newer treatment
approaches that are offeringhope today?
Dr Steve Anthony (47:05):
Well, I think it depends upon the stage of the
cancer, and I think with a lotof cancers, they can be treated
with surgery and if it's amatter of simple surgery,
sometimes that's all that'sneeded.
Sometimes you need surgery plusa little bit of radiation,
depending upon if you want topreserve the breast.
Sometimes, if you have thesurgery and radiation, sometimes
(47:29):
we need to give anti-hormonesto prevent the cancer from
coming back, and nowadays wehave a genomic tool for breast
cancer patients where we canactually get a score and tell
them if they actually needchemotherapy.
You know, 25 years ago weover-treated everyone with
(47:49):
breast cancer.
You came in and everyone gotbig-gun chemotherapy and we knew
we were over-treating peoplebut we had no idea of how to
help those patients.
And then some very brilliantpeople, especially in Europe,
started looking at genomicprofiles, and there are big
companies here in the US lookedat genomic profiles and then
(48:10):
followed those patients foryears, if not decades, to say
would the cancer come back?
And said, well, if you havethis genomic risk versus this
genomic risk, these people areso low they'll never benefit
from chemotherapy.
So now we actually have toolsto help Amber and other patients
and it's not just a randomdecision, it's a really
(48:34):
well-informed decision.
So if we come back and we havea genomic tool that says, hey,
your risk of the cancer comingback in 10 years is 32%, and by
giving you this treatment we'regoing to reduce it to maybe less
than 15% or even more, then thepatient can make an informed
decision.
So the good news is we are usingsome of those genomic tools now
(48:57):
to really help inform ourdecisions.
Jeff Jamison (49:00):
Wow, that's so helpful.
That's got to be really helpfulfor Amber to be able to.
If she can get to the rightpeople that can get the right
information and then use thatinformation to tailor make a
treatment for her, then her oddsof survival well are pretty
good, I agree.
Trisha Jamison (49:19):
And she'll be able to hit those milestones
with her children andgrandchildren.
I love that so good.
How can patients advocate forthemselves in a medical setting,
especially when they feelscared and overwhelmed?
Dr Steve Anthony (49:32):
Well, write questions down, bring people
with you, try to do somereasonable information off the
internet if you can.
As we always say, don't confuseyour Google search with the
medical degree Great.
But I think if you have someonewith you, if you're writing
(49:53):
questions down, that really goesa long way to really
understanding next steps.
Jeff Jamison (49:59):
Yeah, I agree.
I think that it really comesdown to being personally
well-informed about what's goingon with you, and that's doing
your own research and internetsearches can be helpful Talking
with other people.
There's multiple chat boardsand communities in cancer that
have got lots of things that youcan help from.
(50:20):
They can also be incrediblydamaging too, because everybody
thinks that everybody else'scancer is just like theirs and
if you don't do it like you did,you're doing it wrong.
So, there's misinformation aswell.
So you have to take those kindsof non-professional places,
(50:41):
take it with a grain of salt, somaking sure that you understand
your source of your informationand judge its credibility.
Trisha Jamison (50:52):
And then also making sure.
Jeff Jamison (50:54):
I love Dr Anthony's discussion about
making sure, when you go to thedoctor, that you bring people
with you.
One person is going to hear onething, another person is going
to hear another.
Having somebody that takesnotes and then you can compare
notes you know afterward veryhelpful and it will help
generate new questions for nexttime and then bring them with
(51:15):
you.
Trisha Jamison (51:15):
What do you think about recording?
You know if they brought theirphone and recorded the office
visit.
Is that something that you'drecommend or not?
Dr Steve Anthony (51:22):
That's fine, I mean, I'm never opposed to it.
I mean, you know what I'msaying.
If it helps, if it's a tool forthem to help review later, yeah
, no, not a problem.
Jeff Jamison (51:31):
I'm similar with that.
I'm similar with that.
I think that there are alsosome upcoming tools, that a lot
of our interactions are going tobe recorded in the office to
make sure that the officeconversation is accurately
represented in the record aswell.
So there are some things comingup on that.
Trisha Jamison (51:52):
Wow, there you go, okay.
So what kind of emotional andmental health support do you
wish more women had access to inthose early stages of diagnosis
?
Dr Steve Anthony (52:04):
Well, I think for me it really is about how do
you surround yourself withtruly family, friends and church
.
Those are going to be whereyour resources are going to lie.
I think to Jeff's point.
There are a lot of other goodresources, but you do have to be
careful with those.
But, I think that, honestly,that small group is going to
(52:27):
give you the best supportbecause those people are going
to know you best and I don'tthink there's any substitution
for it.
Jeff Jamison (52:47):
I think that's fantastic.
Any other thoughts with that,jeff?
And if you've got a naysayer inthere or somebody that is
basically toxic to your process,make sure that you choose
wisely in who those people are,and there are a lot of very
opinionated people when it comesto cancer treatment.
(53:08):
So opinions are only as good aswhat you pay for them honestly,
and sometimes the free ones arenot very good.
Trisha Jamison (53:18):
Excellent.
Jeff Jamison (53:19):
Good point.
Trisha Jamison (53:20):
Yeah, definitely .
How do you balance scientifictruth with emotional reassurance
?
What role do mindset and faithplay in healing?
Jeff Jamison (53:30):
Isn't she good at this oh my gosh.
These questions Wow Great job.
Dr Steve Anthony (53:37):
Oh, great questions.
Trisha Jamison (53:39):
How good.
Dr Steve Anthony (53:40):
Well, again, I think mindset all goes to how
we were raised, how we wereeducated and what our
environment, how that respondsto us and to me.
I think all of that again goesback to faith.
I mean, you know, if, in theabsence of faith, you're going
(54:00):
to depend upon this world andthe world's going to disappoint
you, in the presence of faithyou're still going to try to
depend on the world, it's stillgoing to disappoint you, but you
know there's a higher callingand a higher purpose, so it
matters less.
So to me it's not the matter ofI'm going to be positive and
defeat this cancer.
It's going to be.
(54:21):
I'm going to live in thismoment and I'm going to continue
to stay grounded in what helpsme face the day-to-day reality.
I love that.
Trisha Jamison (54:29):
I love that, so, so good.
Jeff Jamison (54:31):
You know, and the grounded piece is so important.
Don't you think, Trisha?
Absolutely, you have, and thegrounded piece is so important.
Trisha Jamison (54:35):
Don't you think, Trisha?
Absolutely.
You have to stay grounded.
I think that's just so spot on,so excellent.
Last question If Amber weresitting across from you right
now, not as a case file, but asa mother, what would you say to
her heart, both of you?
Jeff Jamison (54:54):
Well, first of all , I'd echo on what we've already
said was make sure your peopleare close, make sure that you
have your relationships intact,make sure that you are connected
with your heart and with godand then make sure that, with
those things intact, you canachieve whatever happens will be
(55:16):
okay.
Yeah, I think that's great,that's great.
Dr Steve Anthony (55:19):
I think I would be echoing very similar
sentiments, right, I would besaying the one thing about
cancer is it reminds us thatwe're all finite.
You know, life is a fataldisease, as we say, and you know
.
So you take that aspect and youmight feel a little bit more
alive about your surroundingsbecause all of a sudden you're
(55:40):
starting to think of thosemilestones with kids, as she
alluded to, and that's great.
That's a blessing that a lot ofus don't think of because we
always think tomorrow is goingto automatically come.
But then, just like Jack said,I would be saying all right, god
has blessed us with gifts ofmedicine and opportunities
(56:00):
through medicine, and we'regoing to stay grounded with him
as we go through this journey,because we don't know what his
will is, but we know that doingGod's will is never passive,
it's active, right, it's aboutresponding to him, it's about
going to see those doctors, it'sabout going to have those
conversations, and to me I thinkthat's the most important thing
(56:22):
, because none of us guaranteethe outcome.
But at least if we feel likewe're tracking his will in our
lives, which is active, then Ithink we're doing the right
thing.
Jeff Jamison (56:33):
Yeah, let me answer that question with a
story, just a short story.
I had a 58-year-old patientthat was diagnosed we found a
pancreatic cancer.
Now, as you might know in thelistening audience, pancreatic
cancer is usually a baddiagnosis and that means that
(56:55):
usually it can't or it isn'ttreated very well.
The treatments are verydifficult and it's usually very
aggressive and causes some bigdamage for people and they often
don't survive five years.
So this gentleman had a cancerin a place where it looked like
you would be able to do theextensive abdominal surgery that
(57:18):
can remove it and give them ahigher chance for survival.
Well, they chose to dochemotherapy to try and shrink
the tumor and then see that theycould get to it better.
They did that.
It didn't work.
It was infiltrated into a placewhere surgery was going to
cause irreparable damage to theperson, so surgery was not an
(57:41):
option.
So after going through thesetreatments and these options, he
came back to me and said okay,here's my life, here's what's
going on, what do you think Ishould do?
And I said how are you setfinancially?
And he goes I'm okay.
And I said okay, are youworking?
He said, yes, I'm working rightnow.
(58:01):
How is that contributing to theway that you're showing up for
your family right now.
Well, it kind of gets in theway.
It's a busy job.
I'm one of the principals inthis business and it's a it's
kind of a big deal, um, and ifI'm working or not, I said, okay
, you only have one more shot atthis to spend time with your
(58:23):
family.
Take it, let the business go.
You know, and I don't normallytell people to do things.
Um, but this gentleman I said,you know you've got to take this
time and go spend it with thoseyou really really care about.
So fortunately he did and hetook that time and he lived in
(58:45):
the moment and he lived for nowand he cultivated his family
relationships.
He went on some bucket listtrips that he wanted to do
before.
He couldn't do them anymore andthen by the time he was ready
to go or he was just probably aweek away from passing away he
came and saw me again and hesaid you know it's about the end
(59:07):
, but I want to tell you howimportant it was for you to tell
me that I needed to make sure Ilived in now, to tell me that I
needed to make sure I lived innow and that I have.
I'm in a place where I'm happywith all the people.
All my people are happy with me.
I've enjoyed my life and if itends today, I'm okay and it
(59:28):
wasn't a week, and he was dead.
And so so my my gift, that giftto me that he gave me, telling
me that you know, live in themoment, make sure that you know
your today is okay, make surethat you know the people that
you love, that they know youlove them, all of those things.
Trisha Jamison (59:49):
I'm getting emotional about it.
Jeff Jamison (59:51):
But all of those things are way more important
than a job, a superficialsomething else.
So just keeping those things inmind, Great advice.
Trisha Jamison (01:00:05):
Joe, that is so beautiful and, just like Dr
Anthony mentioned, that life isfinite, you know.
Jeff Jamison (01:00:12):
We're built to fall apart.
Trisha Jamison (01:00:14):
We don't appreciate what that means until
it comes down to that moment,and making those decisions are
hard because you want to justkeep going and doing the same
thing that you've always done,but then recognizing that this
is how much time I have, what doI want to do with it?
So thank you so much forsharing that story, jeff, and I
think that that's beautiful.
I remember that.
I remember that was really hard.
(01:00:35):
So, anyway, wow, okay.
So thank you, dr Anthony, yourvoice in this space is so needed
.
And thank you, dr Jeff, foryour incredible insights as well
.
Dr Steve Anthony (01:00:48):
Thank you for having me.
I've enjoyed this, so thank you.
Oh, yes, so much.
Trisha Jamison (01:00:50):
And we all appreciate not only for what you
both know yes, so much.
And we all appreciate, not onlyfor what you both know, but how
much you both care.
I mean it's so evident the careand compassion that you have
for your patients and how badlyyou want to help them and help
heal them, if possible.
So I just love that for both ofyou and it's very, it's heavily
(01:01:11):
felt.
Jeff Jamison (01:01:13):
Thank you.
Trisha Jamison (01:01:13):
Yes, it's heavily felt.
Thank you, yes, and if Amberand every other listener out
there, whether you're facing adiagnosis or walking through
another kind of storm, there issupport for you and we hope this
episode helped you feel seen,heard and a little more grounded
.
And for Amber, thank you somuch for being raw and real with
us and sending in yourquestions.
(01:01:35):
I know that that was hard andwe just wish you luck.
We hope you the best and hopethat this episode was
informative for you.
And before I close, I want tospeak directly to the couples
who might be facing a differentkind of pain, the kind of pain
that builds slowly over time.
Maybe you're barely speaking,maybe the spark is gone, maybe
(01:01:59):
it feels like you're moreroommates than soulmates.
I want you to hear this Lovedoesn't have to feel like a
memory.
It can be rebuilt.
That's why I created my HealingHearts program just for couples
who are on the brink, whoaren't sure if there's anything
left to fight for.
I believe there is, and ifyou're willing to take one brave
(01:02:19):
step forward, I'll walk withyou the rest of the way.
This program is filled withproven tools, vulnerable
conversations and powerfulexercises built from decades of
personal and professionalexperience, and it's designed to
help you reconnect, not justwith each other, but with the
love that brought you togetherin the first place.
(01:02:40):
So, no matter where you'restarting from, there is hope.
You're not alone and you don'thave to figure this out by
yourself.
So if this is you, please reachout to me at Trisha Jamison
Coaching at gmailcom and I'dlove to help support you.
And thank you again to DrAnthony for joining us today.
Again, your insights andexpertise were incredible and
(01:03:00):
you brought words that clarifiedsuch important topics, and we
just appreciate your heart.
And again for Amber and Jeff,you always bring so much to our
conversations as well, and thisjust helped bring up so much
very tender conversation that Itruly believe that countless
others needed to hear today.
(01:03:21):
And to all of you listening,thank you for being part of this
meaningful moment with us.
If today's episode resonatedwith you, please don't forget to
hit subscribe and leave us areview.
It helps us grow thisincredible community of people
who are seeking connection,healing and a better a review.
It helps us grow thisincredible community of people
who are seeking connection,healing and a better way forward
, and please share this episodewith someone who might be facing
(01:03:44):
a hard decision, a medicaldiagnosis, or just needs to know
they're not alone.
Your story matters, yourhealing matters and we're right
here with you.
So if you have a question you'dlike us to explore on a future
episode, we love to hear fromyou.
Please email us at Jamison atgmailcom.
And remember, no matter howheavy things are and how heavy
(01:04:05):
things feel, there's always anext step and there's always
hope.
We'll see you on the nextepisode.
Goodbye everybody.
Jeff Jamison (01:04:11):
Bye, thanks again.
Thanks, steve.
Trisha Jamison (01:04:16):
Thanks for tuning in to the Q& and A files,
delighted to share today's gemsof wisdom with you.
Your questions light up ourshow, fueling the engaging
dialogues that make ourcommunity extra special.
Keep sending your questions toTrisha Jamison coaching at
gmailcom.
Your curiosity is our compass.
Please hit subscribe, spreadthe word and let's grow the
circle of insight and communitytogether.
I'm Trisha Jamison signing off.
(01:04:37):
Stay curious, keep thriving andkeep smiling, and I'll catch
you on the next episode.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Cold Case Files: Miami
Joyce Sapp, 76; Bryan Herrera, 16; and Laurance Webb, 32—three Miami residents whose lives were stolen in brutal, unsolved homicides. Cold Case Files: Miami follows award‑winning radio host and City of Miami Police reserve officer Enrique Santos as he partners with the department’s Cold Case Homicide Unit, determined family members, and the advocates who spend their lives fighting for justice for the victims who can no longer fight for themselves.