From Biology Teacher to NFL Official: The Inspiring Journey of Craig Wrolstad

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What happens when a biology teacher transforms into an NFL official? On today's episode, we're joined by none other than Craig Wrolstad, who has been making significant calls in the NFL since 2003.   Craig was my biology teacher way back in 1992 and our paths woudl later cross during my days playing quarterback at Central Washington University.  You will find the story funny....so listen for it!

Venturing back in time, we explore Craig's formative years in Renton, the impact of his encouraging parents, and his passion for sports. We discuss how his father's job at Continental Airlines sparked his love for travel. The conversation takes an inspiring turn as we chart Craig's transition from teaching to officiating in the NFL. He also shares his teaching experiences, illuminating the drastic changes in education, particularly in science and technology.  Craig will tell a story about Brett Favre, along with his journey from the Pac-12 that led him eventually to the NFL.

At the end of our conversation, we delve into Craig's advice for dads, the need for positivity and mentoring, and the power of instilling self-belief in kids.  We also highlight a pressing issue - the need for officials in youth sports. Craig lends his insight into how belief shapes our lives and perspectives.   The wise Bruce Brown also is highlighted in this episode, given the impact that he had on Craig and me.

This episode is a must-listen for dads, sports enthusiasts, and anyone seeking an inspiring life story.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hi, I'm Riley.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
And I'm Ryder and this is my Dad's Show.
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(01:30):
So with that, let's welcomeLatitudeSitka to the podcast and
get right to today's episode.
Well, here, everybody, it isCasey Jaycox with the
quarterback, dad cast, and weare in season four.
We're getting towards the endof season four, which sounds fun
, as we prepare for season five,which even sounds more fun.
But this next gentleman if youhad told me that, he would have
be a guest in my podcast back in, I think, 1992, and I met him

(01:52):
in a biology class where I waspretty much not understanding
anything because I was in thesharpest tool in the shed in the
classroom, but he was ourteacher.
His name is Craig Rolstead andyou might recognize him not from
his days at Meeker or coachingbaseball at Lindberg, but he was
reunited to me by the formerguest Casey Bell, the former

(02:15):
guest, one of my mentors in life, coach Marty Osborn, and we got
to give a shout out to coachJeff Schumek, who just retired,
and I told coach Schu that we'regoing to have Rolstead on.
He was super excited and he'slistened to every episode.
So, coach Schumek, thank you,but Craig Rolstead now is an NFL
official Since 2003,.
Started as a field judge, wardnumber 89.
And then he got promoted to aNFL referee, did a Super Bowl,

(02:37):
did a Pro Bowl.
He now wears number four.
I don't know if that's becauseof Brett Farrer, we'll find out.
But with all that said, we'remore excited to talk about Craig
the dad and learn how he isworking hard to become that
ultimate quarterback, a leaderof his household.
So, without further ado, mrRolstead, welcome to the
quarterback dad cast.

Speaker 3 (02:59):
Thank you, Casey.
You know it's been 30, 40 years.
You don't have to call me MrRolstead anymore, Craig just
fine, how about that intro?
Oh yeah, that was fantastic, Ilost myself in it.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
Well, as you mentioned, you've listened to a
few episodes, so you know what'sgoing to come.
Next is we always start eachepisode with gratitude, so tell
me, what are you most gratefulfor as a father today?

Speaker 3 (03:19):
Well, most grateful as a father probably is the
health of my family.
I'm actually a brand newgrandfather, so I have a six
month old granddaughter namedJade, and so you know it just
brings a whole new perspectiveto you.
And the fact that my daughtercame through, you know the

(03:41):
pregnancy in great shape and thefact that you know my son is
son is healthy after a longcareer in playing baseball,
never really had a major arminjury, and that my wife is
healthy and I'm healthy.
That's, that's what I'mthankful for.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
Until you go through like any injury.
It's like it's funny, you take.
That's one of the things we ashumans take for granted, so it's
good.
I do a gratitude journal everymorning and one of the things I
talk about say you know, god,thanks for waking me up today
and thanks for my health.
I'm grateful for health to goexercise and like keep the body
moving and because when I don'thave that man it stinks.
Today we are in end of July.

(04:23):
This episode will come out inprobably about a month, right at
the start of our NFL season, soit'll be a nice timing.
I'm grateful for the experiencesI'm having right now with my
kids.
It's a little craziness insidethe house.
My wife's on the East Coast,I'm playing, mr Mom.
My daughter flew out thismorning to a basketball
tournament in LA.
Tomorrow my son I go up northto play and he's playing in a

(04:45):
golf tournament, and then thethree of us travel back East to
be with my wife and then they'regoing to be on a boat by
themselves.
I'm going to go speak at acompany and then me and my son
are going to fly all the wayback to Seattle for the state
Washington Junior Golftournament which you qualified
for.
So I'm just grateful for theseexperiences and these moments,

(05:06):
because I know time is notslowing down and I just do my
best to like slow down, to justappreciate these moments, and
just watching them grow has beena blast.

Speaker 3 (05:17):
Yeah, those are great times when your kids are
teenagers and you kind of get tosit back and see what they're
becoming.
That's a great time.
So that's a fun time to enjoythat.

Speaker 2 (05:28):
Well, the one thing my kids unfortunately I passed
down Craig is the skill ofsarcasm, and they are both
intense, intentional smartassesat my expense and they don't
miss a beat.
So maybe I'm not grateful forthat.

Speaker 3 (05:44):
Well, they'll come around and realize how cool
their dad was when they get tobe 30 or 40.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
So I think I got a long ways to go from there.
So, okay, so you're a grandpa,which I love, and but I want to
go inside the huddle, maybe talkabout your wife, each member,
maybe your kids, and then alittle bit about your being life
as a granddad too.

Speaker 3 (06:10):
Sure, well, my wife's Crystal.
We went to high school together, so she's a Lindbergh Eagle.
We have close ties to many.
I know you're a former KentRidge Charger, but I was 10
years before you probably but wehave close ties to many of the
old Kent Ridge Chargers people,so shout out to them.

(06:31):
I actually was then fortunateenough to be able to teach at
Kent Ridge, so I have a lot ofties with Kent Ridge.
So you think you mentioned acouple of the guys that I see
very rarely, but I have fondmemories about old coach Osborne
and coach Shoemake.
But so I met my wife in highschool and we basically became

(06:53):
good friends in high school anddidn't really date too much,
kind of just as friends, andthen we ended up running into
each other again in college andthe rest was kind of history.
So we both graduated from theUniversity of Washington.
She just is a fabulous lady,fabulous supporter, fantastic

(07:14):
mom.
She is now retired, so that'snice that she's able to be
retired and obviously she's abrand new grandmother, so she's
loving that.
I have two kids.
My daughter is Makayla.
She just turned 27.
She's married to my son, la Sam, which, for those of you who

(07:38):
you know, you basically raisetwo kids your whole life and you
think you're gonna have twokids and that's your family.
But then they go off and getmarried and then you actually
double the number of kids youhave.
So that's fabulous.
I mean it's awesome because Ialways wanted more kids but I
was always gone every weekend.
So it's kind of hard to talk mywife into you know, growling,
you know four kids instead oftwo.
But my daughter is now marriedto Sam and they have a beautiful

(08:04):
six-month-old girl named Jade.
So that's my granddaughter.
And then my son.
He's 23, just out of college,spent five years kind of kicking
around college baseball, whichwas a lot of fun to have them to
watch them do that.
And I kind of mentioned earlier, you know, the most important

(08:29):
thing when you're an athlete isnot being injured.
So being injured, you know,basically knocks you out for a
year.
So when my kids were comingthrough, I didn't pray that they
, you know, started or you know,led to league and home runs or
whatever.
I always just prayed that theydidn't get hurt so that they
could play the next day, youknow.
So I've seen so many kids, youknow, obviously get hurt over

(08:52):
use, injuries, things like that.
So I really wanted them to havea full shot at their dream.
So and he's getting married.
I guess we're in July.
So he's getting married inAugust, late August, so he will
be.
He's actually moved back intothe house.
So I know you always talk aboutyou get 18 summers with your

(09:15):
kids.
Well, sometimes it turns into20 summers and 20, 23 summers
and you know what that's awesomethe fact that he's willing to
move back in and save some moneybefore he gets married.
So he's living back at homeright now and working before he
gets married in August.

Speaker 2 (09:32):
Very cool.
And what's, what's his name?
His name is Brock Brock.
Okay, and where did Brock playbaseball?

Speaker 3 (09:39):
Yeah, brock played.
He went to Seattle ChristianHigh School.
Didn't get a whole lot of looksthere, so he ended up going to
Pierce College and he was both ahitter in a pitcher he was
Ohtani before Ohtani came along,I guess, and not quite at that
level, of course.
So he ended up being like allconference DH and so he got some

(10:02):
interest from divisions toschools and ended up down at
Missouri Western in St Joseph,missouri.
They haven't, you know, just afabulous league down there and
incredible facilities, a littlebetter than the facilities at
Central, I might say.
But Sorry case, I'm sure thefootball program's got great
facilities, their baseballprogram doesn't have great

(10:22):
facilities.
So he ended up down at MissouriWestern during COVID.
They actually got to play.
I think they played 30 gamesthat year where most of the
schools up here didn't play any.
And then he ended up gettinghis degree down there and came
back up here and actually played.
He was gonna just get hismasters and and st Martin's
knocked him into playing.
So he played one year at stMartin'sa Couple years ago.

(10:44):
So now he's done.

Speaker 2 (10:46):
Very cool.
Was it harder on you that hewas done or harder on him that
it was done?

Speaker 3 (10:50):
Oh, I think it was harder on him.
That is that it was done.
I mean, we loved watching himplay, yeah, but you know, hey,
he lived and breathed it everyday, you know.
So you know it's his journey.
So, but no, we just likesitting on the sidelines and
watching him.

Speaker 2 (11:07):
Yeah, I kind of asked that tongue-in-cheek, I know.
When I got done playing atCentral, my, it was like it was
like a super hard, almost like,yeah, there's like a emotional
day when I was like, oh my god,I'm done playing football.
It's like I can't believe it'sover.
And then, but my, I reallywrote my dad loved it when he
was still alive, like just loveda journey, and Sometimes I joke

(11:28):
that's like I think might havehad a harder hand.
He wasn't dad, like livedvicariously through me.
He was like adding, an averagehigh school athlete, but like he
just loved.
And remember, I remember likemy freshman year when I was
third string quarterback playingKittner, he, he would literally
get there just to watchwarm-ups and he told me, man, he
had a great game today.
Okay, so it's like dad and Ididn't play like hey, did you
went like 12 or 13 in warm-ups.

Speaker 3 (11:48):
That's awesome, that's perfect, that's what
that's what a dad should do,right.

Speaker 2 (11:54):
And just they loved it.
They just loved any time theycould watch.
So it's like I, that was agreat lesson I learned is like
just being there and and I loveyour, your great.
You think you talked abouthealth.
Like I Always tell my mydaughter when she plays hoop, I
said play, you know, playhealthy, play fast, play strong,
play well, you know just fourthings that you think about like
I don't care about.
You know, you know threepointers.

(12:14):
Or do this just play hard, havea red face when you're done, be
healthy, be a good teammate andyou know the rest will take
care of itself.
So Okay, so I would like to.
I like to always learn frompeople of what what life was
like growing up for for you.
So maybe let's like to go backin time and learn about life for

(12:35):
Craig as a young Stud.
What was it like like growingup for you and how did your
parents?
What was it talk about theimpact your parents had on you?
Now that your dad and agrandfather yeah, I grew up in.

Speaker 3 (12:47):
I grew up in Renton, so I didn't get very far.
We moved like three times butnot very far.
So I was able to kind of stayin the same Relative area when I
was growing up.
So I basically had friends fromthe time I was five till the
time I got out high school.
So I, you know, grown up for me, I grew up in the the decade of
the 70s, which you know I stillthink that's the greatest

(13:08):
decade for for sports, athletics, you know, baseball, football,
basketball.
The 70s were awesome if youlive through them and I was just
all all athletics all the time.
So it's funny how I ended upbeing, why I ended up being an
educator and I was.
I was a science teacher for along time but Everybody thought

(13:32):
because I was so into sports andathletics that I was just a PE
teacher.
I and I shouldn't say just a PEteacher, but they thought
everybody thought I was just wasa PE teacher because I was into
athletics so much.
But yeah, basically playedfootball, baseball, basketball
growing up, and then that youknow, during recesses we play,

(13:52):
you know, soccer and volleyballand all that kind of stuff.
So if it had a ball.
I was, I was involved in it.
So I had real supportive parentsthey grew up in.
They grew up in North Dakotaand kind of migrated out here
with basically a trailer in the50s.
So they didn't have, theydidn't come from, they didn't

(14:13):
come from a real wealthybackground, but they were.
They instilled a, you know,hard-working Work ethic.
My dad had, you know, a numberof different jobs, but you know,
they basically had high schooleducations.
High school educations.
My mom was a mrs Renton, notreally mrs Renton, but she
worked at the, the Sears RobuckStore down in Renton for 41

(14:37):
years.
So she basically knew everybodyin Renton and everybody in
Renton knew her.
So it was always fun.
She'd come home and say, hey, Isaw so-and-so today and Seems
like she saw two or three peoplethat we knew every single,
every single day.
But they were, you know,incredibly encouraging.

(14:58):
I never, I never realized wedidn't have any money because I
Guess they always providedeverything you know and they
were, you know, incrediblyencouraging.
That always, you know, got usto do our best and you know that
you can be anything you want tobe in, anything's possible and
that sort of thing.
So you know it was, it was agreat, great time growing up.

Speaker 2 (15:22):
Now our mom and dad still with us.

Speaker 3 (15:25):
My mom is.
My mom is 89 Years old and shestill lives.
She was real close to ValleyMedical Center there in Renton,
kind of close to where I grew up.
My father passed away in 1998on January 27th, on a Super Bowl
Sunday, actually before I,before I got an NFL, about five

(15:50):
years before I got an NFL, buthe was.
He was very encouraging.
He had seen me kind of movethrough the ranks from, you know
, high school official to asmall college official.
I hadn't quite gotten into thepack 12 but he just he thought
it was amazing that they would,that, that they would pay me to
go out and watch football, andhe always thought he'd missed

(16:10):
his calling Because to be ableto go out and watch a game and
get paid for it, he thought thatwas, he thought that was pretty
awesome.

Speaker 2 (16:18):
Wow, now what did dad do for a job?

Speaker 3 (16:22):
Well, he worked at Boeing for a little while and
then canteen services and heended up his last part of his
career.
He worked at continentalairlines.
So that that actually was akind of a blessing for our
family, because I don't know ifit's a little known fact, but if
you work for an airline thenyou can get discounted airline
tickets.
So you know, for the first tenyears of my life we basically

(16:46):
were a big camping family.
You know we'd camp around thestate of Washington and things
like that.
But after you got a job atcontinental airlines it was
actually cheaper for us to fly.
You know, we could fly toCalifornia or we could fly to
Texas or to Florida to visit hissister, and we even flew to
Hawaii Because I think at thetime the price of a ticket was

(17:08):
like ten bucks to fly.
So so, wow, we were called nonrevs I think still they still
have them but yeah, that it costus ten dollars to fly to
Florida.
Now we were the last people onthe plane and and if the plane
was full you basically gotbumped.
So I spent a few.
I've spent a few nights at theStapleton International Airport
in Denver on the floor as a kid,but but it was.

(17:33):
It was just awesome to be ableto, you know, fly all over the
country when you know you hadn't.
I really hadn't been used tothat.
My first ten years of my lifeDid you have to dress up back
then with yes, yes, howridiculous right I have have a
eleven, twelve, thirteen yearold kid wearing a button up and
a tie.
My dad actually had to wear asuit coat, oh, yeah but yes, we

(17:55):
had to, we had to Look the lookand then they'd stick us in row
38, right in the middle, youknow, back by the toilet, and
you were happy.
You were happy you got on theplane.

Speaker 2 (18:07):
I.
So I don't know if you rememberwell, issue was Kerry level at
the time.
Mike Kerry and I we sell grades.
Sweetheart, married.
We've married by 25 years inFebruary.
Her dad was a pilot for acontinental.
He got furloughed 83 and thenhe was with Alaska Airlines for
33 years.
Her, his son, ryan level I wasa captain Alaska Airlines.

(18:27):
So, like we're, when we were inhigh school we would do, we
would non-rev to Phoenix whereyou have to call the airline to
get the loads and I remember I'dput you Know, dress up to go
see here grandma.
And so I know all aboutnon-reving and the, the From
people who's like, oh, he mustbe nice, you get work there,
like these free tickets, butlike they don't see the, yeah,
the three flights I missed.
And then you're, you're sittingnext to the John where guy just

(18:49):
goes back there and blows thething up and you got to sit back
in a stench for an hour and ahalf.

Speaker 3 (18:53):
That's exactly right.
Yeah, it sounds great, $10 toTexas.

Speaker 2 (18:57):
But you know nowadays I'll pay the $500 exactly Now
where you're, out of randomcuriosity, where your parents
are, they buys and fan fromNorth Dakota like they were fall
the football team.

Speaker 3 (19:12):
You know they were.
They moved out of there beforeNorth Dakota State was really a
was really a deal, so Not reallybuys and fans.
But you know what I have?
I have probably a hundredrelatives still in North Dakota
and I'd say 90 of them are NorthDakota State Bison fans and I
actually had a cousin play forthem.
So oh yes, they're big-timebuys and buys and fans Bison

(19:33):
supporters there in North DakotaWell there's small world.

Speaker 2 (19:36):
My my shout out to Chris Bartz if you're listening.
So Chris Bartz was a client ofmine.
He was at AT&T and Back whencoach Baldwin, bob Alden, was at
Eastern.
When Chris Bartz was a customerof mine, we would talk about
football all the time.
He was a huge, huge north NorthDakota State fan.
His brother was a huge NorthDakota State fan.
He was his brother.

(19:57):
Lily would buy tickets to thefollowing 1a championship.
They they day of the game.
He was that confident they'regonna go the next year.
And the game season evenstarted yet that's nice.
So we had I, just just becauseof Chris, I ended up following
North Dakota State, and Did youhave any brothers and sisters?

Speaker 3 (20:18):
Yes, I have a brother .
He's uh, he's 11 years olderthan me.
He's moved out of this stateand he lives down in Texas, but
he was kind of like a second dadto me, being 11 years older
than me.
I mean, he went off to collegewhen I was, you know, six years
old, seven years old.
So you know, it was fun to kindof have him as a as kind of a

(20:38):
second father mentor.
And then I, my sister, mysister's, four years older than
me.
She's recently retired as aneducator Up an Everett.
She was in the Edmunds SchoolDistrict as a elementary school
teacher for 30, 36 years, Ithink, maybe.
So yeah, Very cool.

Speaker 2 (20:59):
You mentioned hard work earlier was it was a theme
that your parents taught you.
But as you think back, whatwere other talk to me about
other values that really wereinstilled maybe a story or two
that comes to mind.
That were life lessons youlearned growing up that were
really important to you as afather.

Speaker 3 (21:17):
Yeah, I, when that comes to mind, I guess, is when
I was in high school.
I was a pretty good student,but I think different things
would come up.
Like the Sonics won thechampionship in 1979 for Seattle

(21:39):
Super Sonic fans and theyweren't going to have her parade
the next day, and I guess Imight have been in eighth grade.
But I was trying to figure outa way I could skip school and go
to this parade.
And my mom was big into.
You know, you get up every day,you go to school every day, you
do the right thing and you getgood grades and all this kind of

(22:01):
stuff.
So I nagged her for the two orthree days before the Super
Sonic parade was going to happenand finally she gave in and she
said well, fine, you can go tothe parade as long as you get
all A's.
Well, I was a pretty goodstudent, but that meant I had to
get all A's.
So I really actually kind ofbuckled down after that and got

(22:24):
all A's for a long time until Iran into a couple of my high
school teachers, but that wassort of the message that she
would you know, you can do somethings, but as long as you get
what's important done.
So I ended up going to thatSeattle Super Sonic championship
parade and it's pretty awesome.

(22:45):
That pretty awesome, was it?
We were able to do that.
I'm one of the save our sonicskind of guys and I can't wait
till we get the sonics back inSeattle.
Yeah it would be great, yeah,and you know, so that sort of
work ethics sort of thing wasthere.
And then kind of being alifelong learner.

(23:05):
They kind of set the bar there.
Even though they were only highschool educated, all three of
their kids have earned collegedegrees and you know we continue
to continue to be a learner.
I think that's been instilledin us.
And then kind of treating othersthe way you want to be treated,
the golden rule I think thatwas big in our house, you know,

(23:28):
coming through in the in the 70sObviously the civil rights era
was the late 60s and so theyraised us to treat everybody the
same and that you know itdoesn't matter your, your
religious orientation or youknow your, your race, you know

(23:49):
everybody, everybody's equal.
You know everybody's the sameinside.
So I think that was instilledin me, you know, as a kid which
at the time I don't think thatwas instilled in in all the kids
around, but I'm very thankfulthat I was able to, you know,
get that kind of upbringing.
So you know, learn that at ayoung age.

Speaker 2 (24:10):
I love that man.
So it's, it's.
I always think back.
It must have been a hard thing.
Maybe not hard, but I may,maybe would.
I mean, when parents aregrowing up in the 70s, during
civil rights, you know race,wars, race.
You know challenges.
I think back to you knowOakland, the even 90s with the
LA riots, even like what we wentthrough in 2020, you know, I

(24:30):
think it still goes back to achoice and of doing the right
thing, which sounds simple, butit's, it's.
For some reason, people make itdifficult and they don't always
want to do the right thing.
They don't always want to treatpeople the way you want to be
treated, which, again, is reallysimple.
We slow down to think about it.
And I met a fantastic humanbeing, got him Dale Favors,

(24:51):
who's a great friend of mine tothis day.
I actually interviewed him inthe height of Black Lives Matter
White dad interviewing a blackfather what does it like to be a
black father?
During Black Lives Matter?
And we did it live and I justwanted to get super
uncomfortable and I wanted toask questions that I was like
maybe a little nervous to ask,but I was like, hey, this is
great growth opportunity and Ialways, you know, like in the

(25:12):
coaching world I do, I alwaysask my clients you want to be
comfortable on the sidelines oruncomfortable in the game?
And, yeah, I might go out andthrow a pick, but I'm going to
learn.
I might fumble the ball, butI'm going to learn.
And it's like Dale, it was a.
He's such a great dude andgreat father and great man doing
great work in diversity andequity, inclusion and just

(25:34):
helping bring people together.
And it's through patience,through curiosity.
So shout out to your parentsfor instilling that in a time
where probably wasn't quoteunquote cool and I love that you
.
That's still top of mind foryou today, absolutely,
absolutely.
Um, when you said lifelonglearner, talk about that like
what.
What are some areas you stillthink about ways to learn and

(25:56):
grow and that maybe you haveshared with your kids as well?

Speaker 3 (25:59):
Yeah, I mean you know I was in education, for I was
in education for 35 years.
I don't know if we mentionedthat I was.
I was a teacher for for about10 and then became an assistant
principal and athletic director.
So I did about I think I did 33years in education actually.
But it's about it's.

(26:22):
You know, it's about when I camein and there was a way of
teaching that that you know wethought was the best way of
teaching.
But in education, you know,they're always searching for
better ways.
So you know, for example, liketeaching science, you know, when
you were going through scienceand biology, you probably I

(26:42):
probably wasn't a very goodteacher, because I was.
I was about my second year andI was probably giving you all
the vocabulary to learn and allthe all the words you know.
Like you know, biology is knownfor having you know the most
vocabulary words in any singlesubject area and you were
probably like what am I doingtrying to learn all these words?

(27:02):
Where you know nowadays, ifyou're teaching biology, that
you get out there and you domore labs and you go outside and
you you get back to nature andand you learn about, you know,
the plants and the animals andthings like that.
So it's more hands on.
So you know that just that sortof thing is, is, and you know
the, the, the boom in technology.
If you don't, if you don't knowhow to work technology, you're

(27:25):
going to be left on the sideline.
So you know the fact thatyou're doing, you know we're
talking here.
We're not even next to eachother.
In the olden days I would haveto, we'd had to meet somewhere,
you would had to rent time in a,in a, in a studio and all that
sort of thing.
And now you just flip it up onyour computer and you're
interviewing somebody in your,in your, in your den.
So you know that's a sort oflifelong learning we're talking

(27:48):
about.
So always take the opportunityto to get better at whatever
you're doing.
We talk a lot about inofficiating.
If you're not getting, ifyou're not getting better,
you're getting worse.
You know nobody stays the same.
So you got to you better.
Be getting better every day.

Speaker 2 (28:04):
Lombardi said that Paterno said that Coach John
Zamberelin shout out to coach Zat 1998.
I remember as a junior, in aSeptember, not September or
August we were running and he,we were doing our sprints at end
of practice and he said man, ifyou have a choice, you're going
to get better, you can getworse.
No one stays the same.
I'm like what is this dudetalking about?
I'm like 19, I'm hot, I'm tired, I'm 47.

(28:27):
And I still remember him sayingthat I can still.
When you said that, it broughtme right back to coach John
Zamberelin, and it's true.
I mean, though, these clichesin life, they, they, they might
be cliches, but they are true.
Like I'm passionate about theword or the number, um 1,440,
which is the number of minutesin a day that we all have and we

(28:47):
all get the same.
No one gets more, no one getsless.
And so when people say, man,I'd like to do that, but I don't
have time, I'm like, really,how do you, how do you not have
time?
Did, because we have the sameamount of time.
Just, I'd rather you say youjust you're choosing not to do
it because we all have a choice.
And then we kind of slow downand kind of like focus on that
it's you can get a lot.
So I think I love that you'reeven the NFL level the officials

(29:09):
are talking about that becauseit's um a great, a great lesson
for our kids.
And you mentioned technology.
You made me think like my, mydad, when he worked from home.
When I was in high school, yousold appliances for Whirlpool
for like 35 years.
I remember like this was likewhen computers were starting to
get involved and a fax machine,and I remember seeing how

(29:30):
stressed out my dad was like.
It was like that's what he toldme.
He was like that's what hecalled.
He was like learn computers,I'm a disaster.
Like he didn't know what thehell he was doing.
And I mean like for us.
Now we got AI coming at us.
We got these things it's likeand so like.
With this podcast, I just, inthe last two weeks, adopted AI

(29:51):
to like do our the summaries ofour conversation and it is so
scary, craig.
So when we get done, I I uploadour audio, I produce it real
quick and then I put it intothis little thing, I say I tool
and it literally spits out afantastic summary with the
transcript, with chapter markersand like, and it saves me a ton

(30:12):
of time, wow.
So I use those stories to tellmy kids like hey, your, your old
dad is still, I'm using the AI.
How are you using AI?

Speaker 1 (30:20):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
So it's just trying to trying to stay with the times
a little bit.
So what went?
Talk to me about the, the, youreducator, and then you start
referring games.
Talk about that transition.

Speaker 4 (30:34):
Hello everybody.
My name is Craig Co and I'm thesenior vice president of
relationship management for Bline.
For more than 20 years, we'vebeen helping fortune 1000
companies drive a competitiveadvantage with their external
workforce.
In fact, b lines history afirst to market innovations have
become today's industrystandards.
I get asked all the time whatdid Casey do for your

(30:56):
organization?
And I say this.
It's simple.
The guy flat out gets it.
Relationships matter.
His down to earth presentation,his real world experience
applied to every area of ourbusiness.
In fact, his book when therelationship and not the deal,
has become required reading forall new members of the global
relationship management team.

(31:16):
If you'd like to know moreabout me or about B line, please
reach out to me on LinkedIn andif you don't know, casey Jay
Cox, go to Casey Jay Coxcom andlearn more about how he can help
your organization.
Now let's get back to today'sepisode.

Speaker 3 (31:33):
Yeah, you know.
You know I wanted to be anathlete, right, but I was.
I was the average Joe athleteplayed football, baseball,
basketball in high school,actually went to PLU to play
basketball and the there was acoaching change and the new
coach discovered that I wasn'tas good as maybe I thought I was
and so I didn't make the team.

(31:55):
And that was my freshman yearof college and on our exit you
know he's a good guy Obviously Iwish you would add a different
opinion, but it everything turnsout.
Turns out for a reason, Ibelieve.
And so he asked me hey, youknow, since you're not going to
be practicing with us, theintramural gal came to me and

(32:20):
asked if there'd be any of myguys who would want to officiate
basketball games, you know, onTuesdays and Thursday nights,
let's say.
And I said, well, what doesthat entail?
And he told me he says, oh, andit pays, you know, pays five
bucks a game or whatever.
And I'm, you know, I'm a kid incollege who's, you know, coming
from not a real wealthybackground.

(32:41):
I thought, well, shoot, Ishould probably contribute.
So I actually took the job as abasketball referee at at PLU's
intramural gym that that year,and from the very start of
officiating basketball.
I loved it and so the next yearI transferred to the University
of Washington, which was about,you know, five, five to 10

(33:03):
times cheaper going to a stateschool and obviously I'd given
up on my dream of still playingbasketball or baseball and I
started officiating.
And I started officiatingfootball and I did.
I basically did football andbasketball for at the high
school level for 18 or 19 yearsbefore I made it made it to the

(33:28):
NFL.
But yeah, so I I was.
I thought about being a doctor,I majored in chemistry and
biology and then at at somepoint I was going to be a
athletic trainer and I'd go tothese games where I was
refereeing while I was incollege and I talked to the
trainers and I did a littlecouple of internships with them,
but I found that the trainerswere the first person in the gym

(33:52):
about an hour or two before thegame and about an hour or two
after the game they were thelast person shutting the lights
off, leaving the gym, and I wasat the time officiating these
games and I'd roll up when theparking lot was full and get
there about a half an hourbefore the game, get dressed in
the locker room and as soon asthe buzzer sounded, I jogged off
the court, took a shower, putmy stuff on and I was out the

(34:15):
door.
And so I thought well, you knowwhat, if I'm going to stay
close to athletics, maybe Ishould just continue to do this
officiating thing rather thanrather than this the trainer
thing.
So I I basically get aneducation degree and became a
teacher, and teaching was agreat way to stay close to
athletics.
I had to kind of make adecision at the time what.

(34:37):
What was I going to coach andwhat was I going to officiate.
So I think when I started I wasin college I did I refereed
football, basketball andsoftball, slow pitch softball.
That was a great way to makemoney on the weekends that do
the beer league softball games,because you could do five six
games on a Saturday and five,six games on a Sunday.

(34:58):
So that was a good way to makemoney.
But I wasn't real passionateabout the game, the game of
softball, at the time.
And then when I started, when Istarted teaching I I had long
been my favorite sports baseball.
So I'd long been a baseball guy, and so I got a coaching job at
coaching baseball and coachingbasketball and so basically

(35:20):
coached two sports and then Igave up softball officiating and
I refereed to sports basketballand baseball and I kind of
balanced that every every dayafter school.
You know, school was done attwo, two, 30, I could leave at
three and the game started atthree, 30 or four, at you know
different, different schoolsaround the area.
So that's kind of how I, how Iworked it Now when.

Speaker 2 (35:43):
how old were your kids when you started refereeing
?

Speaker 3 (35:46):
So I started officiating.
I started officiatingbasketball when I was, uh, when
I was 19 years old.
I guess football started when Iwas 20.
So I wasn't even close tohaving kids or being married.
They didn't come along for mydaughter.
I guess came along 10 yearslater.

Speaker 2 (36:05):
But I mean, maybe I'll rephrase the question.
So when your kids were young,were you still able to referee?

Speaker 3 (36:11):
Yeah, you almost have to just keep.
You almost have to keep going.
Every year.
If you don't keep officiatingcan you lose your standing in
your local organization, youknow, trying to move up to be
able to do playoff games andstate championship games and
things like that.
So yeah, as my kids were growingup I continued to officiate
absolutely and then slowly movedinto like small college

(36:33):
football and that sort of thing.
So yeah, in order to be anofficial, obviously you have to
have a wife who's almost a saint, willing to make a lot of
sacrifices so that you can begone on a, you know, like during
a football season.
If I was referee in high schooland small college, I would do a
high school game on a Thursdaynight, a high school game on a

(36:54):
Friday night and a small collegegame on a Saturday, and that
Saturday I'd get up at six inthe morning and maybe drive to
Whitworth and Spokane and, youknow, get home at eight o'clock
at night.
So the whole entire Saturdaywas shot.
So yeah, it really takes a inorder to be an official.
It takes someone who's willingto, you know, kind of be the

(37:17):
parent on some of those days.

Speaker 2 (37:21):
Tell me where do you think the drive came to do that?
Because that's a choice, likethe passion for that.

Speaker 3 (37:29):
Yeah, I don't know.
You know, obviously I playedthe sports and then I've always
been.
You know, I like the strategyof the game and you know, in
order to kind of know the gamereal well, you actually have to
know the rules.
So as a player growing up Iprobably knew the rules a little
better than most kids Trying toget the edge here.
I wasn't real athletic so I hadto maybe know all the nuances

(37:54):
of the rules so I can get awaywith things right.
And then you know, just growingup you start doing it and it's
a passion, it's a lot of fun,you stay close to the game.
I used to talk to coaches whowere maybe coaching one sport
and we're going to startofficiating another.
I say, well, the good thingabout the tough thing about

(38:17):
coaching sometimes as a coach isyou, you know, practice five or
six days a week and then youhave one game.
You practice five or six moredays, you have one game and
that's okay for the first coupleof weeks.
But by the time you get to weekeight and a week nine and week
10, you're practicing five orsix days and then you have a
game and you're like you know,the practice is get a little
long, get a little long for thekids, get a little long for you.

(38:38):
Well, if you're an official,every day is a game day.
So when I was coming up, youknow I do Mondays with JV games
and Tuesdays with junior highgames, and Wednesdays were
freshman games and Thursday, youknow, you start a varsity games
.
And so there was a point Ithink my fourth or fifth year
where football season was eightweeks long, nine weeks long.

(39:00):
There was a point one yearwhere I worked a hundred
football games and that means Iwas working basically a game a
day on Wednesdays and Mondaysthat you could work two games.
You could work JV games, andthen on Saturdays or Sundays I
might work, you know, three orfour junior league games, and
you know it was just something Ilove to do.

(39:21):
I mean, and the reality isyou're watching sports and
you're working and you'restaying in shape and you're
getting paid to do it.

Speaker 2 (39:30):
Awesome Talk about.
Tell me the hardest part aboutthat journey as a dad, when your
kids were growing up.

Speaker 3 (39:38):
Well, yeah, the hardest part is not being there.
You know, I think you've talkedin past episodes about, you
know, being present.
And being present isn't justbeing home, but it's, you know,
it's interacting with your kids.
And you know there are timeswhere you know I'd work, I'd
work, you know, the entire workweek and then I'd officiate.

(39:59):
You know I'm putting in 30, 40hours in officiating, so you're
adding up to 90 hours of work aweek and so you get home and
sometimes you know I probablywasn't the best best at being
present, being there for my kids, you know.
So that's I really worked hardactually.
My son, obviously, was intosports as well and if there was

(40:20):
any time that he asked to go outand play, you know, catch or
throw the football around Ialways made sure that I got up
and got out there and we, youknow, we're playing with
football or he was pitching tome or throwing the football
around or whatever.
I never.
I always made sure that Iwouldn't, you know, short him

(40:40):
just because I was maybeexhausted from the work day.
Love it.

Speaker 2 (40:46):
You mentioned small college football.
I don't know if you rememberthis memory, but this is one of
my favorite stories I lovetelling.
So I remember like one of myvery first like legit actions at
Central I for those scoringhome.
So Central Washington DivisionII school, Ellensburg,
Washington, middle of the state,and I remember just taking a
huge hit, and Isn't it at theHarvard of the West?
It is the Harvard of the West.

(41:07):
Many people don't know that,but that's I definitely I do.
But I remember this is back inthe day when it was like and I'm
gonna make myself sound oldlike a leather helmet guy here,
but like a quarterback couldthrow it thousand one, thousand
two and still take a shot and itwas okay.
There were the late hits thatare getting called now or not

(41:29):
even remotely close to what Iknow when I played Because I
remember getting like called outin film room like you got to
step, step into that and take itI was like, oh you, you step in
, take it.
Dude's 250 sprint right at you,picking your body, sound, yeah.
And I remember I get blastedand I'm like getting up and I
hear this get up, Jay Cox.
I'm like what in the hell?
I turn back and it's the oneand only Craig Rolstead.

(41:50):
I'm like I'm getting shittalked by referee.
What the hell?
I'm sure I didn't?

Speaker 3 (41:57):
I'm sure I didn't say get up, Jay Cox, I'm sure I
said something like Casey, can Ihelp you up?

Speaker 2 (42:02):
No, you said, get up.
I remember it.
I remember it and it actuallywas awesome because it made me
laugh.
I was like, okay, this is, thisis gonna be fun today.
I'm like I remember liketalking to you real quick.
I'm like I didn't because Ididn't see you like during the
coin toss, because maybe Iwasn't a captain then, but I
couldn't believe it.
This is crazy.
I'm playing college footballand my frickin 10th grade
biology teacher is a rep.
This is so cool.

Speaker 3 (42:24):
That's true.
So, true statement.

Speaker 2 (42:30):
When?
When did the NFL became areality for you?

Speaker 1 (42:34):
Hi, I'm Marcy Stout, ceo and co-founder of rebel
coach, a consulting and coachingcompany dedicated to
cultivating leadership, buildingcohesive teams and fostering
wellbeing in the workplace.
At rebel coach, collaborationis one of our core principles,
which is why I'm excited thatCasey Jay Cox and I are
partnering together to host amonthly mastermind called the

(42:57):
intentional sales leadermastermind, where leaders can
share ideas, exchange insightsand gain valuable knowledge from
industry experts.
It's our promise to you thatjoining our mastermind will
provide practical insights onhow to use curiosity and
humility to build relationshipswhile exceeding revenue
expectations.
We'll also teach techniques soyou can stay committed to

(43:19):
priorities like family, healthand, quite frankly, things that
bring daily joy.
You can learn more about me andmy work at rebelcoachcom and,
if you want to work with us andother sales leaders who are
committed to results bothpersonally and professionally,
visit Casey Jay Coxcom for moreinformation on the intentional
sales leader mastermind.

(43:40):
Now let's get back to thepodcast.

Speaker 3 (43:43):
Well, little known fact that officials when they
get to the division one level soI was working in the pack 10 at
the time, wasn't the pack 12, Iwas working the pack 10 at the
time and the only known fact isthat the officials actually get
scouted by officiating scouts.
The NFL sends scouts out Justlike a, you know, just like a

(44:03):
team send guys out to watch,watch the players.
There actually are scouts thatgo out and watch officials.
So I was lucky enough to be ona crew with a gentleman who was
being scouted by the NFL andwhen the rule was if they go out
and watch a crew, a crew ismade up of seven officials to go
out and watch one guy and theyactually have to ride grades on
everybody on the crew.
So it was my first year in thepack 10 1999, I guess and they

(44:32):
came out, watched one of the hotshots on my crew who was, you
know, five or six years probablyinto college officiating and I
was a prospect to be in the NFLand they saw me.
And it just so happens the guywho was the scout mentioned to
another guy who was at the gamewho was my, my small college
assigner.
He says hey, that field judgeover there, craig Rolstead, why?

(44:54):
Why isn't he applied to the NFL?
And so I got a call from myassigner the next morning and
said hey, you know, the NFL wasasking you about you.
They want to know why youhaven't applied to the NFL.
And I was like heck, I didn'teven know you could apply to the
NFL.
I don't even know what.
What are you talking about?
I knew there was.
I knew the NFL was the next,you know, the next step after
major college football.

(45:14):
But I just gotten into the, Ijust gotten into the pack 12.
So I wasn't thinking about theNFL at the time.
But so, anyway, that spurred meto, you know, start asking some
questions and and I ended upputting my resume out there and
over the next five years,different scouts would come
watch me work and and I waslucky enough to get the chance

(45:35):
to interview.
And you know it's quite anextensive process to become an
NFL official, but I wasfortunate in 2003 to become an
NFL official.

Speaker 2 (45:45):
Wow, so cool and what is like.
So maybe for those scoring homewhat talk about.
What is it?
What is a typical week NFLofficial?
Like what?
What does that look like?

Speaker 3 (45:57):
Yeah, you know I laugh when some people think, oh
, you guys just go out there andappreciate for three hours a
week and then you walk away andthat's it.
Well, that couldn't be furtherfrom the truth.
Let's take like, from themoment we finish the game, so
we'll finish a game and I mightbe in.

(46:19):
Let's say I had the jet so Imight be in New York, and as
soon as that game is over I'mhanded a.
Well, we have to file reportson the game.
So we basically write downanything that's significant to
happen in the game.
We have to report all of thepenalties that we called.
We have to report anything wesaw that maybe was close to a
penalty that we didn't call.
And we fill out these gamereports in the locker room at

(46:40):
the end of the game.
Then we send those into theleague and we are assigned a
supervisor who will now look atthat game and evaluate every
play of every game for every oneof our officials.
So we have seven officials onthe field and two guys in the
replay booth, so all nine of uswill get graded by that
supervisor on that game, everyplay of every game.

(47:03):
So as we walk out of thestadium they hand us a little
thumb drive and on that thumbdrive is the game.
So they rush us to the airport.
We immediately jump on a flighthome.
So I'm able to get home from NewYork at about 11 at night.
So I'm able to get into bed byone in the morning, usually on a
Sunday night.
But in the meantime, on the wayhome I'll watch the game a

(47:27):
second time and I'll review ourperformance.
So I review my performance andthen all of the other six guys
on my crew on the field and thenthe two guys in the replay
booth.
So I look at all those things,so I basically grade the game as
well, so that when I get aphone call so like on Monday
night, a lot of times we'llcontinue to have, you know I

(47:49):
might call a guy on my crew, Imight call the umpire and say,
hey, take a look at, you know,play 2369 and play 4873.
What did you think of the leftguard on this play?
And so he might have been closeto holding or things like that.
And so when the supervisor callsme on Monday night or Tuesday
night and asked me aboutdifferent plays, I may have

(48:10):
already had, you know, aconversation with the guys on my
crew about you know what, whathappened on that play, and so
basically by Tuesday they comeout with the grades on the game.
They have preliminary grades.
We can, you know we can answertheir questions.
A lot of times they'll havequestions about a play or things
like that, and so we come, comeback with our explanation, what

(48:33):
we're looking at or maybe whatwe saw, and then the final
grades kind of come out withwith uh on, uh, I guess usually
Wednesday morning and uh, youknow, we can have conversation,
I can have conversations with mysupervisor or or my uh or the
vice president officiating aboutdifferent plays, you know, and
occasionally there's, you know,something controversial that you

(48:55):
know I may have to comment onin the media, but not not too
often Does that happen.
And then, uh, the whole week, uh, we basically have uh, we have
different rules, tests that wetake.
Uh, we have different videosthat we watch.
We have videos that are for thefor, like, the downfield
officials that might involvepass interference.
We have videos for the line ofscrimmage guys that might

(49:16):
involve, you know, false startsand neutral zone infractions.
We have videos for uh refereesthat might involve, uh, you know
, roughing the passer,intentional grounding, things
like that.
So, uh, we, we watch a lot oftape.
Uh, I can pull up any play ofany game on my computer and
watch, uh, you know, watch, uh,you know you dialogue with other
officials around the league andthey say, hey, look at this

(49:37):
play from the, you know, kansascity game and we'll look at that
, um, and then we start,basically start preparing for
the next week.
Um, so, uh, the next week, we,we actually, uh, we'll look at
our performance and grade that.
Uh, I will, uh, I will pickplays from our past game and
we'll review them as a grouptogether.
Uh, we'll also look ahead atthe teams we have for the next

(49:59):
week.
Uh, we'll scout them.
Uh, and scouting is a littledifferent, but you know, we look
for trick plays and and, uh,you know, uh, we call them
frequent flyers.
A frequent flyer in terms of anofficial, as somebody who might
be leading the league andholding penalties.

Speaker 1 (50:17):
So if I have a five, the.

Speaker 3 (50:19):
You know, let's say, the Denver Broncos have a left
tackle that's leading the leagueand penalties.
I know that before the gamestarts, uh, and you know, I like
do the preventive officiatingsay, hey, yeah, make sure you
keep your hands in today.
And of course, the guys say,hey, I never hold and and I'll
know that you know he has 10holds in 12 games this year.
Um, but you know, I, I uh justwant to make sure he knows that

(50:42):
I'm looking at him, so maybe hedoesn't hold today because,
believe it or not, officialsdon't want to throw flags.
We just have to throw flags ifthere's a, if there's a penalty.

Speaker 2 (50:52):
And when is so game?
On Sunday.
When are you usually traveling?

Speaker 3 (50:55):
Yeah, so we get up early in the morning.
Uh, since I live in the Westcoast, I usually got to get up
before 4am on a Saturday andcatch like the six am Flight out
of out of Seattle.
Uh, if it's a West coast game,I get there obviously early, uh,
you know, by nine or 10 in themorning.
If it's an East coast game, Iusually can't get there until
about four.
And then, uh, since I'm thehead official, I have a meeting

(51:17):
of uh, of a three hour meetingthat I'll run with the guys that
we'll look at, like I said,place from last week, place from
this week.
We actually talk, uh, we, we dorules tests, we do, we look at
mechanics, things.
Uh, uh, we look at.
Uh, you know the guys share.
Well, you know they might, wemight have had a play last week
on a punt play that you knowsomething didn't go right.

(51:38):
So we'll talk about ourcoverages on punts and things
like that.
So it's, it's a, it's a prettylong process, uh, but you know,
if you're a, if you're a refereeor a or a football nerd, it's,
it's kind of cool.
So, uh, most of us are kind offootball nerd.
So so we, we, we like it.
We, you know, we basicallytalking football for three hours
on a Saturday, uh, beforebefore our game on Sunday.

Speaker 2 (52:02):
So tie in this back to your parents uh, the skill
and the, the, the work ethic oflifelong learning, um, uh, I
mean you couldn't be doing.
Proven that more right now.

Speaker 3 (52:13):
Like yeah, this is my 21st year in the league and
there's always something newthat happens in a football game.
You know you wouldn't thinkthat would happen, but you know
you say, wow, I've never seenthat before and that happens,
that happens every week.
Uh, basically, um, in footballand and, believe me, I've
watched a lot of football and uh, for for there to be plays

(52:35):
every, every, every week, whereyou go, I haven't seen that
before.
Uh, it's pretty amazing.
But uh, you know, footballcoaches are pretty innovative
and they come up with new stuffall the time, especially those
special teams coaches.
They're always looking for theedge, you know, right?

Speaker 2 (52:49):
Um, as you think about your journey as a dad, um,
that's through education,through football, you know, one
of the questions I like askingdads is like an area of our dad
game.
Or maybe you know you're, as agrandpa, like that.
Maybe you knew or you know it'snot quite where you want it
from a skill perspective and Ialways like to lead my witness a
little bit like mine's.
As a competitive person, I haveto really watch my patience, so

(53:10):
sometimes that gets the best ofme and but, um, so that's an
area of my dad game and I thinkevery time I get to talk to a
dad on this podcast it's likefree therapy for me.
So, like from from yourperspective, craig, talk about
an area your dad game that mightrelate to others at home, of an
area that you're.
You might not always be whereyou want it to be, but you're
working hard to come, just bethat you know, follow the skills

(53:31):
of life on your learner andjust working hard to become
better in an area.

Speaker 3 (53:37):
Yeah, let me talk first about when I was a young
dad.
Um, uh, you've had a guest onhere named Bruce Brown, who
talks about the car ride home,and I actually learned that when
my kid was about six or sevenyears old, uh, and he was
playing ball, and I don't thinkI wouldn't think I was the coach
, but I would, you know, I'd askhim about different plays

(53:57):
during the game, whether it wasbasketball or or or baseball,
and uh, you know, he, he didn'tseem real excited to talk to me
about, you know, what might havegone wrong.
And I then I went to aconference and and, uh, I was
probably a new, a new coach, anduh, bruce Brown talked about,
you know, you're not, you're notyour kid's coach.

(54:19):
When you're riding home in thecar and and your kid doesn't
really want to talk about, um,maybe what went wrong, uh, your
job is, is is basically to be auh, uh, you know to, to believe
in your kid and praise your kid,and at that time, is is not the
time to ask them aboutsituations.
So they want to talk about itlater and that's fine.

(54:40):
But I just learned then that, uh, you know, even though I was a
coach and, uh, an official andan athletic director at one
point in my life that if mykid's playing in the game, I'm
just a fan.
I'm just a fan and I'm justhappy.
I should be just happy thatthey're playing, happy that
they're healthy, uh, and happythat they had fun.
So that kind of changed, thatkind of turned my perspective a

(55:02):
lot when I was, when I was ayoung, young, young dad, and I
think that's very important.
Uh, you know, there's one thingyou know, you you talked about
earlier it's not like you'reliving through your kids but
even even pressing them so hardthat now it's not enjoyable.
I mean that that would be theworst thing that I would have a
kid quit, uh, one of my kidsquit a sport because it wasn't

(55:24):
enjoyable to them.
So I always wanted to make surethat it was enjoyable.
So that was one of the things Ithink very valuable thing that
I learned as as as a young dad.

Speaker 2 (55:33):
I had the same, the same experience.
I remember I read Bruce Brown'sarticle.
A guy named Mark Zender who's abaseball coach at Kentwood High
School.
He was a coach's clinic and hegave us this article about Bruce
Brown.
I remember like God this is.
I was guilty of that.
I remember when Ryder was likeeight or nine, I was like I'm
like buddy, what happened thatplay?
You always make that play,right, you know.

(55:55):
And then I read this.
I was like whoa, I'm not that.
And I remember like just saying, man I love, and Bruce Brown
for everybody don't know hisarticle talks about just telling
him man, I love watching youplay, and when the kid, when
your kid's ready to talk abouttheir performance, that he or
she will talk about it.
And I put it to the test andsure as you know what it worked.
And I'm so grateful for myfriendship with Bruce coach

(56:20):
Brown.
I spent five hours with him athis house up in Camino Island
and I feel like I was meetingwith Yoda just the wisdom.

Speaker 3 (56:26):
Yeah, he's a great dude and you know it's amazing,
is he?
Thank goodness he stepped backfrom coaching at one point and,
rather than being a high schoollike varsity coach, he put all
his coaching into middle schoolfor the last you know, I know,
the last 15 years of his career.
Rather than just keep strivingto be, you know, the big high

(56:48):
school varsity coach, he decidedto step back and be a middle
school coach.
And what a what an awesomeopportunity it was for those
kids at that middle school tohave Bruce Brown as their coach
and I actually know that one ofhis former students is Heather
Tarr, the University ofWashington.
Uh, softball coach who's, youknow?
Just an outstanding coach inher own right.
Uh, but it's pretty, prettyawesome that that he was able to

(57:11):
step back and do that for kids.

Speaker 2 (57:13):
He talked to me about Heather Tarr and so, it's funny
, I met Bruce.
I got to meet him through.
My buddy got him Josh McFadden,former guest in the podcast.
He actually played for coachBrown at that middle school.

Speaker 3 (57:23):
Oh, nice, nice.

Speaker 2 (57:24):
Yeah, Really really cool story.

Speaker 3 (57:26):
Well, I actually officiated for Bruce at that
middle school and it was like he, he, you looked at the coach
and and a lot of middle schoolcoaches are screaming and
yelling at kids and screamingand yelling at the officials and
I looked at this guy and Ithought, whoa, that guy's a
class act.
Who is that guy?
And then I got into educate Iwas officiating when I was in
college and then I got intoeducation and I met him.
You know five years in and whatwhat a great guy Wow.

Speaker 2 (57:52):
Love it.
Um, okay, if we had tosummarize kind of what we've
talked about today, um, we, wetalked about a lot of things.
Um, what would be a you knowtwo or three things top of mind
for you that that dads can takefrom our conversation today um
to to work on being thatultimate quarterback or leader
of their household?
Tell me what comes to mind.

Speaker 3 (58:13):
Well, since we're just talking about kids and
sports and things like that,this goes with all of their.
You know, the kids' whole lifeis, I think, about John Wooden's
quote be slow to criticize, bequick to commend.
So you find things that you cancommend your kids on, you can

(58:33):
praise your kids about.
They don't need to hear morecriticism from you, but if
they're not doing it right,they'll hear criticism.
So you know your job is kind ofto inspire your kids and be
that positive presence andmentor.
So I guess the biggest thing iskind of teach your kids to

(58:58):
believe in themselves, you know,teach your kids to believe that
things can happen and thatyou're the ultimate encourager
when it comes to not onlyathletics, but you know really
anything in their life.
You can be there, you knowyou're there to encourage them,

(59:20):
and so I mean that would be mybiggest takeaway, I guess.

Speaker 2 (59:25):
Love that For people that obviously this is an
audio-only podcast, but Craigand I can see each other on
video and the behind me is abelieve sign.
It's from Ted Lasso, but it'salso a word I use in my coaching
world for businesses andleaders, and I learned the power
of that word from a guy namedJohn Kaplan when he used to ask
me Casey, do you believe whatyou do matters?

(59:45):
He would ask people that, andso it's a word that is not used
enough and I love that you saidthat, craig, because it's.
I talk to my kids all the timeabout that word and I wish I
could go back to seventh grade.
When I was the.
There was six kids that wereseventh grade that made the
first cut, the meeker baseballteam, pizzolotto.

(01:00:06):
Remember that name, pizzolotto?

Speaker 3 (01:00:09):
Pizzolotto.
Mr Pizzolotto, yeah, he's amath teacher.

Speaker 2 (01:00:11):
Yeah, pizz.
And then Forney was the ninthgrade coach and I was John
Forney.
Yes, there was one kid that gotcut as seventh graders to
eighth grade team and you'relooking at him and it was
because.
So I made the first cut but Ididn't make the second.
Because I remember talking tosome of my buddies as seventh
graders I said, hey, do youthink you're going to make it?
And some of the buddies werelike, oh yeah, I'm making it.

(01:00:33):
And the fact that I had to askhim, the fact that I didn't
something inside didn't quitebelieve, was why I got cut, I
think.
And I look at guys like JohnKittner, who made it in league
for 17 years.
Again Mike Riley, who's a studat Central, played in the CFL
for years.
Their level of competing,competitiveness and I had it
obviously in college.
But even in business world thepower of belief is so important.

(01:00:57):
So you've obviously struck achord with me and I'm glad that
you mentioned it and I hope thatdad's a home, if you're not
using that word inspiring belief.
Start today because Bruce Browntalks about he has a book on
confidence and he saysconfidence is built by one
person inside the home and oneperson outside the home.
So, all right, I'm off mysoapbox, all right.

(01:01:17):
So if people want to learn moreI don't know if you're on
social media or not but ifpeople want to learn more about
you and the life of an NFLofficial is a place I can send
them, or they just look for youon TV on Sundays.

Speaker 3 (01:01:30):
Yeah, well, yeah, we don't really do social media.
If you could believe this, if Idid social media, I would guess
that maybe 95% of it would benegative.
So I don't really need thatnegativity in my life.
So I really don't do socialmedia.
I'd have them, you know.

(01:01:51):
They can contact you and get ahold of me.
What I would like to put a plugin for is that right now, high
schools and youth sports areabsolutely dying for officials
and referees and it's you know.
People ask me hey, it's prettytough, coach is always yelling
at you.
The reality is, the coaches arenot always yelling at us and in

(01:02:14):
fact in the NFL coaches arerarely yelling at us.
Now, at the lower levels youmight get a coach that gets out
of hand and that sort of thing,but it is, you know, I just
think, as an avocation.
So it's obviously a side job,but as an avocation it's just
awesome to.
It's way better than I wouldsay, it's way better than

(01:02:36):
waiting tables.
You know, if you're a collegekid looking to make money, you
know, sign up.
You can sign up to your localhigh school association and you
can work and you can work.
You only want to work Mondaysand Wednesdays.
You only have to work Mondaysand Wednesdays, or you can work
just Saturdays and Sundays orwhatever.
So and I'm not talking justfootball, I'm talking every

(01:02:57):
sport every sport needsofficials volleyball officials,
basketball officials, soccerofficials, and so I'd probably
want to put something on there,a thing that where they could
contact people to become anofficial, because that's very
important.
We're going to, we're going toend up at a point where we're
not going to have our kids,aren't going to have games
because there aren't going to beanybody to officiate the games,

(01:03:18):
and that'll be a sad day.
So we just need need moreofficials.

Speaker 2 (01:03:25):
Well, we faced that.
Actually last year we had gamesmoved because of a lack of
officials.
So you're right, I used to runa basketball organization here
in my community and we wouldmeet with head of league
officials and they warned us andI think a lot of it's
unfortunately, by the waythey're treated.
Some parents get out of controland, you know, freak out and

(01:03:45):
parent.
The rest are like I'm done, Idon't want to deal with it
anymore, and so hopefully, ifthere's a dad or mom listening
or a grandpa that's inspired bythis conversation, we'll make
sure that's linked in the shownotes of how they can, at least
in the state of Washington.
How you can, how can you, howyou can go find a place to, to,
to sign up to be an official,because we, like Craig says, we

(01:04:06):
definitely need people doing itand we're lucky enough to play
sports.
Give our kids those sameopportunities.
All right, you told me beforewe were recording you're a
little worried about thelighting around.
This is where I go random onyou and all the effects that you
saw me take at the central,those hits that I should have
got a roughing the past or youdidn't throw the flag.
So now, now that that's gonnakarma is going to come back.

(01:04:27):
Yet I'm going to ask justrandom questions.
Your job is to answer them asquick as you can.
My job is to try to get agiggle out of you.

Speaker 3 (01:04:34):
All right, but it did build toughness right.

Speaker 2 (01:04:37):
Well, play that laugh .
For me does not count, I didn't.
We're not scoring yet.
Okay, true or false, you oncebeat Ed Hockley in arm,
wrestling.

Speaker 3 (01:04:45):
Oh, that'd be a big negative with Ed's pretty strong
guy.

Speaker 2 (01:04:49):
For those scoring at home.
Ed Hockley was the most jackedref.
I think he wore a medium shirt,but God, he had guns for days,
it's not?
Yeah, he wore the medium.

Speaker 3 (01:04:58):
I was lucky enough to be on his crew for five years.
He's a he's a great official.
He was, he was great.
He's been retired now for acouple of years and people still
ask me hey, did you ever talkto Ed?
I said, well, yeah, I talked tohim, but he's not.
He's not an official anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:05:11):
So good, tell me the last book you read.

Speaker 3 (01:05:15):
Last book I will read .
The luckiest man, I believe, isthe life and times of Lou
Gehrig.
Life and life and death of LouGehrig.

Speaker 2 (01:05:25):
Cool.
If I was to come to your housefor dinner tonight, what would
we have?

Speaker 3 (01:05:31):
Well, we probably have salmon and a baked potato
and corn on the cob and we'dgrill the salmon and actually my
wife's a better cook than I am,so if we were having guests I
would have her do it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:45):
There we go.
Tell me your your most favoritememory as an NFL official.

Speaker 3 (01:05:51):
Wow, that's a good one.
Yeah, yeah, probably my one ofmy most vivid memories, one of
my most memorable games was Ihad the game on Monday night in
Oakland, the night after BrettFarve's father passed away and

(01:06:14):
Brett Garve had a game in whichhe everything he threw up in the
air came down.
It was my rookie year, actually19 or 2003.
Everything he threw up in theair came down and was caught by
by the Packers.
I mean, there were raiders, youknow, covering them and every
catch, every pass seemed to comedown into the Packers and he
had like three touchdowns athalftime and he ended up

(01:06:36):
throwing for, you know, 450yards and four or five
touchdowns.
And the fact that he wasn'tgoing to play his dad had just
passed away the night before andhe wasn't going to play and
then the fact that he played andthat the Raider fans, who had
been known to be kind of toughon on the opposing teams,
actually were kind of cheeringfor the guy during the game.

(01:06:56):
It was just, it was prettyawesome.

Speaker 2 (01:06:59):
Wow, tell me who you were, the the the biggest
starstruck NFL person you met.
Who was it?

Speaker 3 (01:07:06):
I'm not starstruck by any of that.
The guys around now I guess,but you know, I guess the fact
that I met, you know, jim Brown,you know obviously he was he
was almost done by the time Istarted watching football, but
to know, you know, to shakehands with Jim Brown, the

(01:07:27):
greatest running back of alltime, I mean that's, that's
pretty awesome, and so it was alittle starstruck there actually
actually was able to meet.
I actually shook hands withGeorge Hallis at one point in my
life and that was that was wayback in like 1979, but I'd say
that those are, those are two ofthe guys to be starstruck
shaking hands with.

Speaker 2 (01:07:48):
Wow, if you were to build a dream for some and
you're one of them you get threepicks dead or alive.
Who, who you playing with?

Speaker 3 (01:07:58):
Yeah, I've actually heard this question before and
you can go a couple of differentways and I guess you know what
I'd do.
I would actually I'd golf withmy father since, and then I'd
bring my brother, mark, along tohave the chance to golf with
him, and I guess I'd probablyalso throw in Jesus Christ,

(01:08:19):
because I'd have to be.
I'd have a few questions forhim.

Speaker 2 (01:08:24):
I love it.
Last question, actually twolast questions here If there was
to be a book written about yourlife, tell me the title.

Speaker 3 (01:08:31):
The whistle doesn't always stop the play.

Speaker 2 (01:08:34):
There we go.
I like that that's, that's goodgood ring to it.
Now, this book you've probablyheard me say it before.
I love asking this questionNetflix, hbo, hulu, they're all
fighting for it, because I knowthey got Craig Ross of that, the
Ralph, we're gonna, we're gonna.
This book has turned into afantastic movie that they want
to, they want to get out thereto let everybody see.

(01:08:54):
But I need, I need to know whatHollywood actor will star you
and you're the casting director.

Speaker 3 (01:08:59):
Oh gee, I'm terrible at acting and even knowing the
names of actors.
Um, how about?
How about Harrison Ford?
Solid choice, Indiana.

Speaker 2 (01:09:08):
Jones yeah, I could see that.
I could see that.
And last question tell me twowords to describe your wife.

Speaker 3 (01:09:16):
Incredible and caring .

Speaker 2 (01:09:19):
Solid Lighting around's over.
We didn't go for as manygiggles this time.
I wanted to make more serious,but I'm so honored that we um,
I'm grateful for Casey Bell andcoach Marty Osborn for saying we
gotta get Ross on there, andI'm, and I'm so grateful, coach,
that you uh, you've spent timewith us today.
I want to say shout out toGlatitude Sica, my boy Assam.
Thank you again for the amazingexperience we had this year

(01:09:40):
together and if you guys arelooking to get to Alaska, I
highly recommend it.
I've lived my whole life herein Seattle and never been up to
Alaska until just this year, andit was an experience I'm so
grateful for.
And I would highly encourage youto visit latitudesicacom, where
you want to go with a corporateevent, 40, old birthday party,
leadership, or treat yoga or two.
Whatever you want to do, go upthere and visit these guys.

(01:10:01):
It's so worth it.
It was some of the mostbeautiful majestic views I've
ever seen in my entire life.
And, um, if you're a dadlistening home, you've not taken
time to leave us review.
Wherever you consume yourpodcast, please do it and please
share this episode with otherdads that you think might enjoy
it.
It'll help us continue to dothis, week by week, and and
continue to hopefully inspiredads to improve the emotional
intelligence we're looking toimprove inside each and every

(01:10:23):
one of the homes we serve.
So, craig, thank you again foryour time, brother.
I really, really appreciate you.
It's been a blast reconnecting.

Speaker 3 (01:10:30):
You bet.
Thanks so much for having me.
Thank you.