November 21, 2023 • 44 mins
What happens at the intersection of spirituality, sexuality, and unapologetic queerness? We're about to find out, as we chat with the one and only Kaelan Strouse, a.k.a Ecstatic Self.
As a tantra and spirituality coach, Kaelan shares the wisdom he has gathered on his personal journey, igniting a path for us to explore our own spirituality and sexuality without judgment or fear.
In this episode, Kaelan guides us to a deeper understanding of human connection, intimacy, and vulnerability. He advocates for the celebration of sexuality as a crucial part of our spiritual life, eroding the shame typically associated with it.
If you feel intimidated talking about sex in this way, or your past has left you jaded and hesitant to anything spiritual, I think you'll really appreciate Kaelan's approach.
We also discussed cultural appropriation in spirituality. Kaelan has some great tips on respecting other cultures while learning from them.
So, join us today for your own self-discovery, transformation, and unlearning as we queerize Tantra and Spirituality with Kaelan Strouse.
Connect with Kaelan:
Website: https://ecstaticself.com
YouTube: https://youtube.com/ecstaticself
Linktree: https://linktr.ee/ecstatickae
Get on the best email list for building your confidence, sign up and receive my free 21 Sassy Affirmations for Confidence
Got a guest nomination, question, or topic idea? Email podcast@coachalexray.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Coach Alex Ray (00:00):
Hello, my unicorns.
I'm so excited to be here withyou today with another guest
interview.
Today I have for you KaelanStrouse, who is better known
around the internet as ecstaticself.
Kaelan is an ecstaticspirituality coach with a
background in classical yoga,tantra, an author, an
award-winning actor, writer andfilm director, and I'm so
(00:25):
excited to have him on thepodcast today to share about his
experience with tantra, how hehelps his clients with their
tantra practices, and what youcan learn today about your own
spirituality and sexuality.
So, without further ado,welcome to the podcast, Kaelan.
Kaelan Strouse (00:45):
Such a pleasure to be here.
Thank you for having me.
Coach Alex Ray (00:47):
Yeah, thank you for being here.
I would love for you to likeintroduce yourself a little bit
more.
Tell everyone a little bit moreabout who you are and what you
do.
Kaelan Strouse (00:57):
Great.
Well, you did such a good jobintroducing me, but to add a
little bit more nuance to that,I've written a couple books on
how do we come home to ourselves, how do we find the most
authentic, integrated, radical,juicy version of ourselves that
is inclusive of our sexuality,that is inclusive of our
spiritual life, that isinclusive of all our crazy bits,
(01:20):
and that really is the focus ofwhat I help other people to
uncover within themselves.
So I host a YouTube channelcalled Ecstatic Self.
I've been doing it for aboutthree years now.
We've got about 265,000subscribers at this moment,
which kind of boggles my mindbecause I have no idea anybody
would be interested in this shit.
But, it's wonderful to have somany people engaging and I tell
(01:45):
people that the channel exploresthe intersection of meditation
and spirituality, queerness, sexand sexuality.
What is masculinity in today'sworld?
And then how do we bring thatall together to live an
authentic life and findbelonging both within ourselves
and in the wider world?
I work with largely men,largely gay men, but there are
some exceptions from around theworld.
(02:06):
Virtually I meet with peopleonce a week for about an hour
and I help them come home tothem so I can help them find
more integration and what wework on various person to person
.
Some people it's really abouttheir coming out journey or
still struggling with theirsexuality post coming out.
Some people it's aboutdeveloping a deep spiritual
practice.
Sometimes it's people who arereally struggling with
(02:27):
connecting with their sexualenergy and seeing that as
something very divorced fromhaving a spiritual life and
something shameful, so workingaround that shame.
My background that got me allinto this is I lived in an
ashram for seven years.
I got into yoga and meditationduring college and took a guru
kind of dove deep into thattradition.
I left that tradition around.
(02:48):
The same time I left working asa professional actor and in my
journey of like what comes next.
I started writing and I starteddoing corporate coaching and
when the pandemic started, Ikind of brought all that stuff
together with now doing my books, doing my YouTube channel,
working with people one on one,and I feel so immensely blessed
(03:09):
to get to do what I do and toengage with people who are
having life changing moments,who are really seeing themselves
evolve and develop and change,and getting this feedback that,
even in some small way, what I'mputting out there is making a
difference for them and helpingthem live a better life.
Coach Alex Ray (03:29):
It's amazing.
I'm so thankful that they likethat your clients have you, that
you're doing the work thatyou're doing out in the world.
Can you tell us a little bitmore about, like your personal
journey and how did you get intothis kind of work?
Were you always interested inspirituality?
Were you always interested inlike sexual dynamics or was?
(03:53):
How did this come along for you?
Kaelan Strouse (03:55):
Oh, I love that question because it is
definitely a journey, right,it's something that continuously
evolves.
As a young person, yeah, I wasalways very much interested in
spirituality.
I could remember havingconversations with God and
feeling like that was a verynormal experience as a little
kid Like it felt like somethingvery personal and tangible,
something that could very easilyconnect with.
And from a very young age I wasvery connected with sexuality.
(04:18):
I think I started masturbatingwhen I was like seven years old,
so pretty young, but sex wassomething that was very fearful
for me.
I grew up in a household wheremy father was shamed for
sexuality.
My father was a nudist and verysex positive.
He used to be a swinger and goto sex clubs, and my mother was
the opposite.
She has only ever had sex withmy father, so there was a lot of
shame around that.
(04:38):
And my father was also acloseted bisexual.
He came out, I think about fouryears ago, at around age 80.
God bless him.
So there was a lot of tensionaround same sex attraction as
well.
So for me, even though I became, you know, sexually active
pretty young with myself, I'mpicking something that I really
shut down, especially because ata young age I thought I really
(05:01):
wanted to succeed as an actor.
And even then I kind of got themessage that if you wanted to
be a successful actor then youcouldn't be gay.
And so I said, okay, well, I'lldo whatever it takes.
So I buried my sexuality.
I didn't end up even kissinganyone until I was 25 years old,
which you know.
(05:22):
Maybe it saved me someunfortunate decisions.
But you don't get to escaping ateenager.
You, even if you know if you'recoming out at 40, you're still
going to go through that chaoticturning process.
And so I had to do somedevelopment, some development
later in life then you'resupposed to a decade later at
(05:42):
least.
But when I was in college Istarted to get super into
spirituality and I grew upmethodically.
I never had an issue with thechurch, but I always felt that
there was something more.
I always felt like there was adeeper connection since the
Bec's Dissie, a sense of awe,majesty, engling, juiciness,
whatever you want to call it.
And the church couldn't give methat.
(06:03):
And I would ask, and all Iwould get back was join the
choir, join the youth group.
And I'm like, oh, that's not it.
I know there's more.
And so I started researching itwith the Buddhism, hinduism,
baha'i, mormonism.
I looked at everything andstarted really connecting with
yoga meditation.
And there was this one teacherI really connected with in
Chicago and she suggested that Igo and do a yoga teacher
(06:25):
training at this big ashram inthe Rocky Mountains and I had a
scholarship that paid for it andthe timing worked out perfect.
So I went to summer before mysenior year and I found a sense
of home.
I found a sense of belongingand answers to the questions I
was looking for, and this was atradition that I identified as
classically tantric.
(06:45):
So classically tantric, as it'sused often in the world, means
that it's divorced from anythingsexual.
It means those things, you canimagine them, but they're not
meant to be done.
And what's really hard aboutIndian Tantra, unlike Tibetan
Tantra, is it had to gounderground due to different
(07:06):
invading cultures who were veryinhospitable to sex and
sexuality, very inhospitable totaboo practices, and Tantra has
always been about exploring thetaboo, exploring that which is
not mainstream.
And by the time the Britsinvaded, it basically
disappeared, and so anybodywho's past practicing classical
(07:29):
Hindu Tantra is resurrecting atthat religion.
And because so much of it wasoral, there's no concrete or
sure way to be able to say whatit actually was.
There's a very good chance ofinvolve sex and sexuality, and
we can say that because if welook across the Hindu Way
mountains to Tibet, the Tibetanpractitioners of Tantra, the
(07:51):
Jain Buddhism Tantra, are stilldoing most of the same practices
as the people in India, butwith different names, in a
different language, and sex andsexuality is a big part of it.
And that was a revelation forme that when I ended up leaving
this community and starting toread the writings of Buddhist
Tantra teachers, realizing howmuch there still was of that.
(08:15):
So I spent almost a decade withthis teacher studying classical
Tantra, moved into thiscommunity, lived there, worked
there, did selfless service atfour hours of meditation almost
every day, and while I was thereI did my coming out process.
And during my coming outprocess I had a friend.
I was working as an actor atthe second study in Chicago.
(08:37):
Now one of my colleaguesinvited me to attend a
Neo-Tantra massage workshop.
So Neo-Tantra, new Tantra.
Whenever you hear people forwhom they say, hey, I do Tantra
and it's basically just likesensual massage or I don't have
better orgasms, that'sNeo-Tantra.
And so he invited me to one ofthose and I was so nervous I was
(08:58):
, I was visibly shaking walkinginto the building, one because I
was still a virgin and twobecause I knew I shouldn't be
there.
You know my, if my off-tron, ifmy teacher found out I'd been
there, I would not have been agood situation.
But I went and as I was walkinginto this building, walking up
the stairs, I heard an audiblevoice say this is part of the
(09:19):
work you're meant to be doing.
And that's only happened a fewtimes to me my life where I've
heard the voice of God or youknow, just somebody voice
speaking to me.
And I Remember hearing myselfreply back shut up, no way,
absolutely not.
And then behold, here we are adecade later.
So I'm not that I'm being verymuch the case.
(09:39):
Well, that voice was right on.
But one of the things that thatworks have kind of awakened in
me was an awareness, importantto know critical Connectionists
are critical human touches, howwe are not meant to be solitary
organisms, we are not meant tolive alone, we are pack animals.
And how tremendous the healingtouch, intimacy, seeing and
(10:04):
being seen breathing together,learning to be vulnerable as
somebody, can be A lesson that Iwould continue to learn as I
continued to come out and then,especially, after I met my life
partner I've been together withfor over eight years and just
seeing how much healing hasincurred has occurred through
loving each other and being witheach other.
So, as I've evolved as aspiritual practitioner and as
(10:29):
somebody who continues toexplore this wonderful world
called earth and all thepossibilities that it has from
living a vibrant and joyful life, the more and more that I have
felt that sex and sexuality hasto come apart of our spiritual
life, because it is so pleasantto our daily life and it's we
(10:50):
spend so much time and energyfocusing on sex, and Especially
if you're a gay man.
Right, like I, forget thestatistic the average amount of
time a gay man spend longerevery day is staggering.
We we will never Accept aspiritual path that tells you
that sex is bad.
We will never be able to accepta spiritual path that says
(11:13):
queerness is bad.
And in fact, I think the bestroute we can take is to find
connection to spirituality thatis not only inclusive of
sexuality but a celebratory ofsexuality, and say, hey, your
queerness is a gateway, yourlove of sex is a gateway to your
highest self and something thatI've really come to believe,
(11:34):
the longer that I have been onthis path, is the immense
sacredness and the queerexperience and queer meaning
fans, gay, whatever, anythingwhere you are Raking the tropes
of society, breaking the tropesof heteronormativity, breaking
the tropes of gender, what istraditionally gender appropriate
, because when you step outsideof those rules, you see
(11:58):
something from a differentperspective.
You are granted an advantage,what is an understanding of the
divine, or the universe, or Godor whatever you want to label it
?
But seeing the other, seeingthe other side and I Am a big
believer and there is researchthat has that pre-patriarchy,
free industrialization, thequeer people around the world
(12:22):
have been the holders of spirit,but they're the ones that would
be the priests, the shamans,the sages, the guardians of that
which is other.
And If we look at what are someof the major tropes of
modern-day life, lots of sex,lots of sex with multiple
partners, party drugs, parties,dancing All of these, in another
(12:47):
context, are all spiritualritual.
There have been, you know,sacred orgies.
There have been templeprostitutes using sex and
sexuality for a transformation.
There have been the use ofhallucinogenic substances to
change your mind, to step youout of your limited construct of
who you think you are.
I was that too, different fromyou know, Taking ecstasy at a
(13:08):
club.
Speaking of clubs, ritualisticdance, ecstatic dance, using
movement, repetitive motion,repetitive rhythms, flashing
lights to achieve us an alteredstate of awareness.
I think all these things thatwe ascribe as being the
quote-unquote, a experience ormainstream culture, are all
Vestiges of our spiritual pasttrying to resurrect themselves.
(13:30):
And yes, they are devoid ofcontext and yes, they are devoid
of Meaning and a deeprootedness, but they're still
there.
It is what we are drawn to,because that is part of our
purpose.
And Tantra, whether you'relooking at classical Tantra or
Buddhist Tantra or Neo Tantra,is so much about the embracing
of the outsider experience,about stepping out community and
(13:55):
going to the charnel grounds,the cremation grounds, and
communing with spirits.
We're wandering naked throughthe streets, covered in ash,
carrying a begging bowl made outof a human skull, or Having sex
with somebody who isn't yourpartner, or imbibing unholy flu,
unholy fluids and this ideathat if you can go into these
fearsome places, these tabooplaces, find God there, find
(14:20):
peace there, find serenity there, then use one, then you can go
anywhere, then you have achieveda stated being that can thrive
no matter what life throws atyou.
And that truly is the heart ofthe tantric message is God is
everywhere, god exists ineverything.
And when you can see the divinein the beggar on the street, in
(14:43):
your sex life, in the gettingfired from your job and losing
everything, in a really messysexual experience, no matter
what, if you can see thedivinity there, then you're
experiencing true Tantra.
It's the opposite ofrenunciation.
It's the opposite of saying Ihave to give up things to find
God.
(15:03):
I have to give up me, that youhave sex, I have to give up
alcohol, I have to give upwhatever.
Instead, it says I goeverywhere and I find the divine
in all.
Coach Alex Ray (15:14):
Beautifully said okay.
So I I'm wondering for someonethat's maybe listening right now
and is saying okay, I'm curious, I'm interested in hearing more
About Tantra.
I'm interested in hearing moreabout how I can maybe decrease
the shame around my sexuality.
(15:34):
Um, but maybe this person is.
They grew up with a spiritual,religious background that taught
them a lot of the same thingsthat you expressed the shame
around sex, particularly queersex.
(15:55):
What kind of advice would youhave to them, or even like your
younger self, right now to justput their mind at ease, so that
they could potentially takesomething away from today's
episode?
Kaelan Strouse (16:09):
Whenever I teach meditation and I teach a live
class every Sunday at 6pm on myYouTube channel, so feel free to
train it if that's useful toyou Whenever I start teaching
meditation, one of the veryfirst things I say is a lot of
yourself, to be where you are.
I think so many of us have thisstrong desire to change, or
give in the senses, to fix, tomove, to find a way of getting
(16:32):
comfortable right now, findingpeace right now, having the body
I want right now, whatever itis, and what that does is it
creates attention within us.
It creates, I often think,about one of the first laws of
physics every action has anopposite and equal reaction.
If you decide you want to bellyflop into the water because
(16:52):
you're hurling at several milesan hour and you are on a big
blown floor going against awatery surface, it's going to
feel like you smashed intoconcrete.
It's going to feel hard, and ifyou just step to the water's
edge and slip in, you'll moveeffortlessly.
And so the more force we have,the more we need and want, the
(17:14):
less we're going to shift, themore force is going to push back
at us, and so the very firstthing I encourage people to do
is to accept where you are.
It may not be comfortable, itmay not be fun, but allow
yourself to simply take a breathand accept your given
circumstances.
And when you can start to feela little release, a little
(17:37):
expansion, perhaps a little morebreath here you'll feel what I
like to call space.
In Tantra and my personalphilosophy there is nothing good
or bad, it simply is.
And the same way, there isnothing inherently negative or
positive, evil or good.
It's all the same energy, it'sall divine.
(18:00):
The differences are things canbe in the state of contraction,
where you think of it beingfrozen, all the molecules pulled
tighter together, it getssmaller, it doesn't move, versus
the state of expansion, wherethe molecules move a little
further apart and it stops beinga solid and maybe moves into a
liquid or a gas and things movemore freely and it takes up more
(18:22):
space.
When we are contracted, whensituations feel contracted, we
feel stuck, we feel depressed,we feel tight.
When we can breathe and let goand open up a little bit more,
suddenly we become a little morefluid, things can move, more
opportunities present themselves.
And so when we can create thisspace, then change becomes
(18:45):
possible.
And when we can let go of ourneed to fix and make it okay
right now and just accept it forwhat it is.
The ironic thing is then changehappens.
It's like the old adage whenyou stop looking for love, love
finds you All from that desireyou have is creating the
(19:06):
obstacle that's preventing it.
Coach Alex Ray (19:08):
We're like a watch pot and never boils Right
Like that's true.
Kaelan Strouse (19:13):
Yeah, and so this would be my message for
somebody who's dealing with asituation like this take a
moment, take a breath, acceptwhere you are, find a little
sense of expansion, find alittle sense of release, and
with that you'll often find alittle bit more clarity too.
You'll get an idea, you'll havea eureka moment, you'll have
(19:37):
new insights into your conditionbecause you're not so trapped
in the way you've been seeingthem, and then you can take a
step forward and a big believerthat a spiritual path should
never be something that totallyuproots us from where we came
from spans, plants and somethingelse.
I'm not a big believer in thebenefits of conversion I really
am but Dalai Lama says the samething.
(19:58):
Right, like don't become aBuddhist, stay in the tradition
you are, but then find the toolsthat are helpful for you where
you are.
Yeah, I'm using the word Tantratoday a lot because it's you
know what language you've beenusing when you've asked me to
talk about it, but if you go tomy YouTube channel, I very, very
rarely use that.
I think I have two or threevideos out of almost 400 up
(20:20):
there with Tantra in the title,just because it comes with a lot
of baggage and because I don'twant people to think I'm saying,
hey, you need to convert tothis other spiritual path, but
to say, hey, we can take theselessons, we can take these ideas
and allow them to meet youwhere you are, and I really do
think that you have everythingthat you need your personal
evolution, for your happiness,for your enlightenment if you
(20:42):
want to call it like that righthere and the area you find
yourself in as the tools, theteachers, the gifts, everything
you need.
If you just see it, if you justopen your eyes and become aware
of the miracles that alreadyare present in your life, you
don't need to go to India, youdon't need to go to Tibet, you
(21:03):
don't need to move into an outrofor seven years, like that, it
is all right here, if you justsee it.
Coach Alex Ray (21:10):
Amazing.
So with that you know I Know aminimal amount about Tantra.
I know what it is in general,but I would love to hear two
things.
One from what I understand,tantra tends to be phrased in a
very like gender binary way, soI would love to hear about how
(21:32):
you bring it to the queerexperience for gay people, trans
people, non-binary people.
And Can you also, before maybewe go there to querifying Tantra
, can you tell us a little bitmore about how you define it or
what Tantra is for somebodythat's maybe not familiar at all
?
Feel free to share.
(21:54):
I want to hear you like yourperspective on it.
You said that you don't evenuse the word Tantra much because
of the baggage that comes with.
Kaelan Strouse (22:00):
So so, yes, well , I will answer the question,
actually in the order you askedthem how it can be perceived as
being heteronormative.
Because if you look at a lot ofthe Quote-a-quote Tantric texts
the main ones that havesurvived that people turn to,
like the Vagana by Rava, they'reusually told in a Conversation
(22:23):
form between Shiva and Shakti,so the Divine Masculine and his
consorts, the Divine Feminine,and Shiva is supposedly, in the
text, the holder of theknowledge and he's explaining it
to the feminine, although wesee as you go further into the
text that she already knows allthe answers.
She's just asking them for thebenefit of the humans who are
(22:43):
receiving this.
So there is that national andfeminine paradise in in the text
.
However, it we have tounderstand is that everything we
receive From India comes froman imperialistic lens.
Indian culture was Decimated bythe breads when they invade and
(23:06):
took over, and, as we see rightnow this year, in Africa, where
a Ameran Christians have goneinto places like Uganda, who
were not traditionallyhomophobic, who actually revered
the queer experience forcenturies, millennia, and now
(23:28):
these Christian, these very,very restrictive Christian
ideals, because it was, you know, some of the most judgmental
Christians who went thereproselytizing now Uganda's
passing all this atrocioushomophobic legislation that and
put people in jail for theirlives just for being accused of
being gay.
(23:48):
So we can see how these can beexported and really do some
really nasty things to a culture.
The same thing happened inIndia, where it didn't used to
be homophobic Go back hundredsof years.
It used to be very celebratoryof the queer experience and
there are still some vestiges ofthat today where you see, well,
(24:11):
we would call trans or we wouldcall gender non-conforming,
where they have special termsfor them and they're considered
good luck to invite to yourwedding and you know that
they've pursued as you both canperform curses and so if they
ask you for a dollar, you bettergive it to them, like.
So there is still some Fuzzyrespect for them, we can see.
(24:32):
But unfortunately India hasbecome incredibly homophobic
because of the British invasionand I have point-blank had
Indian people tell me I cannotpractice yoga because I'm a gay
man, and of course that'sbullshit.
That is absolutely bullshit.
And then when we look at thetantric tradition specifically
(24:53):
and yoga can be tantric, itcannot, and the other term is
sutric.
Sutric is renunciation.
Tantric is what we've beentalking about.
When we look at the tantricpath, which is all about brain,
social.
It's all about embracing thetaboo.
Of course queerness finds ahome there, right Like?
What is the clear experienceabout the breaking of
(25:15):
heteronormative Like?
Even if you're a cisgender,very masculine, presenting gay
man, you are still breakinggender norms because you're
doing nothing that men are notsupposed to do, right that you
are.
You are Shucking off thetraditional labels of
masculinity.
By having sex with another man,you are fulfilling the woman's
(25:36):
role in a way.
So it doesn't matter howmasculine or feminine presenting
you are still gendernonconforming.
You are still breaking societaltaboos.
So I believe tantric in itselfis very inclusive and if you
look at some of the well-knownTibetan teachers of tantra, they
(25:57):
have been very embracing of theLGBTQ community and they have,
in their ratings, talked abouthow tantric can be applied to
Gay couples and gay sex.
Now they will say that ourstudent practices that can only
be done when being done betweena man and a woman.
I don't know how much I agreewith that, because the truth is,
(26:20):
as we all hold the balance ofthe masculine and feminine, and
one of the wonderful thingsabout being queer is we have a
greater balance on that withinus than a heterosexual person or
gender normative person has,because they need the opposite
to find balance right.
A cisgendered man needs acisgendered woman to find a true
(26:43):
sense of balance.
As queer folk, we already havethat balance.
We already are existing,holding the polarity continuum
within us.
And how sacred is that, howspecial is that?
And many ways that makes usmore divine, because we are
already encompassing of thetotality of human experience in
(27:05):
our gender, not normative inthis, in our sexuality, not
formativeness.
And so I Can see Tentra asbeing a wonderfully abrasive of
the queer experience.
And again, remember the factthat we are not doing real
Tantra.
It's dead and gone, at leastthe Indian region is.
And if you want to do BuddhistTantra, then great.
(27:27):
You're gonna have to go convertto Vajran, a Buddhism, which
you can go do.
But like I said earlier, Ithink it's best to meet us where
we are, to root ourselves intoour own natural habitat, not
transplant us to some differentforest on the other side of the
globe and see, we can take theseideas, we can take these tools
and then bury them in thefertile earth around us, let
(27:52):
them sprout into Analogouspractices that are similar but
rooted in our culture in thesame way that we've got pyramids
in Egypt, so we've got pyramidsin Central America.
They're both pyramids or alittle bit different, but
they're both pyramids fromaround the same time.
Ish, right, we make it our ownand then we turn it into this
beautifully queer, rainbow,kaleidoscopic spiritual
(28:16):
tradition that is inclusive ofour lives, where we are, because
we're never, never, gonna beable to live the life of went to
that or Indian person.
We're never gonna be able tolive the life that they have,
because it is a completelydifferent culture, it's a
completely different experience,it is a completely different
world, world view advantage.
(28:36):
So how do we make it our ownand how do we make it something
contemporary, present, helping,appreciative of the traditions
from?
Once again, all of that, Ithink, leads into your second
question of what is Tantra?
It's everything we've beentalking about.
It's the embracing of the ideathat the divine is and
(28:56):
everything, and everyone andevery object, whether we would
consider it's Lentine term ofGod exists everywhere, that you
find God by embracing everythingrather than inject, rejecting
it, to see that we Hold polaritywithin ourselves and within
each other, and that polaritycan be masculine and feminine.
It can be the light in the dark, positive, negative uphill down
(29:20):
here.
Why do you want to call it thatwe are encompassing all, of all
of it, that everything isdefined.
Everything is sacred For me.
That's how I would define it.
Coach Alex Ray (29:32):
Awesome.
Thank you for all of that.
I just really enjoyed gettingto listen to you and your
perspective there.
I really enjoy the way you aresharing with us I know this word
has connotations that peoplemay not like but appropriating
(29:58):
these practices for integratinganother culture's practices into
our own, learning from it,respecting it, honoring it and
letting ourselves learn from it.
So you just kind of take whatworks for us personally, leave
the rest and know that we canmake like you've talked about
(30:20):
with easing into a pool, likekind of more gradual changes, as
opposed to oh, you need to go,you know, move into an ashram,
become a monk.
You've got to fully change 100%of everything about your life.
That's just not realistic ortrue, and go ahead.
(30:41):
It looks like you have thoughtsor responses to that?
Kaelan Strouse (30:44):
I appreciate you bringing up the word
appropriation because obviouslyit's something that we have all
become sensitized to in the last30, 40 years or so, this idea
that, oh you know, we don't wantto take this culture's thing
and use it because of thehistory of exploitation, because
of the history of, you know,reducing a very rich, complex
(31:06):
thing to something oftencommodifiable, that often is
being exploited for resources,for ideas, for money.
But when we kind of stepoutside of the box of which we
use the word appropriation andlook at the larger and more
historical perspective,everything historically has been
about the free trade of ideas.
(31:27):
We even look at people'scuisines throughout the world.
You know, garlic is used, cuminis used from Mexico to India,
like it is used throughout theworld.
It didn't start off that way.
It's because of trade, becauseof cultural mingling.
Everything we have is becauseof sharing.
And if we even look at like abiological perspective on this,
(31:51):
bacteria, viruses, they surviveand thrive because they're
constantly exchanging DNA,they're constantly exchanging
genetic information.
We do the same thing.
We are exchanging cells, we'reexchanging information.
I am the person I am todaybecause of the people I've had
intimate connections with in mypast.
I've picked up things from them, I've learned from them, I've
(32:15):
adopted gestures and facialexpressions and terms of phrases
because of the people I'veinteracted with.
So to make this idea that weexchange and take from other
cultures and take from otherpeople a universally bad or
malevolent thing, not a fariousthing, is doing it such a
disservice, because we are againcreatures that are tribal, that
(32:39):
are connected, that are meantto be in communication and
exchanging and having thingsfree flow.
And, yes, we pay respect andyes, we honor it and yes, we
also make sure that it issomething that it's okay to take
, that we're not takingsomething that they say no, no,
no, no, this is sacred drugs.
You have a lot of use it Likethere's a conversation right now
around the peyote plant withindigenous cultures where they
(33:03):
do not want Westerners or whitepeople using the sacred peyote
plant and saying, well, maybeyou can use a synthesized
version of the synthetic version, but this is for our culture
only.
You know that is an interestingconversation and this is one
that is important to be having,but these ideas and these
practices are being willfullygiven, willingly given.
(33:25):
They're saying, yes, take them,use them.
Please use these things.
That will make the world abetter place.
The issue I have is, as a whiteman from Chicago, I don't want
to go and say I'm now an expertin cashier shave by Tentra, and
there are people who do that.
There are a lot of people whocome and say, ah yeah, I'm from
(33:46):
Kansas, but now I'm an expert inVajrayana Buddhist Sandra.
Right, I'm from New York, butnow I've gotten three degrees in
Sanskrit and I can answer allthe questions about you know,
vedanta.
I think there's a lot ofHebrews there and there's some
really beautiful Tantra teacherswho have done that, and I
personally don't want to be oneof them.
(34:07):
I don't want to go and say, hey,I'm going to become an expert
in something foreign.
I'd rather take these ideas,study them, learn from masters,
learn from people who've usedthem in depth, and then bring
them back, strip them of theircultural context, strip them of
what made them them, becausethese are universal truths.
Even the term for Hinduism isSantana Dharma, which means the
(34:28):
eternal truth that if you justpay attention, you'll discover
these same things.
Take them and say how can Imake them relevant to here?
How can I root them in today'sculture and make them something
that doesn't feelculture-appropriative but still
retain the heart and the souland make it something that is
universal.
Coach Alex Ray (34:46):
Yeah, yeah, I think you used a really
important word there justlearning as we all interact with
each other or travel or read afucking book.
You don't have to rip out thepages of the book and then like
it's some kind of limitedresource.
These are ideas that we'resharing and learning from and
(35:13):
you're taking it, you're usingit in a more Western context and
a queer context.
I'm just so glad that you'remore like translating than
anything else.
Kaelan Strouse (35:28):
I know that yeah .
Coach Alex Ray (35:31):
I wanted to touch on we don't have to spend
a lot of time here, because Ithink you've already given us
quite a good idea around how todeal with us already but
specifically the spiritualportion of what you do.
What would you say to someonethat has maybe a lot of
religious trauma or baggage?
They feel that their queeridentity clashes with anything
(35:52):
spiritual?
How would you addresssomebody's concerns or questions
around spirituality in the waythat you practice spirituality?
Kaelan Strouse (36:05):
That is the case for so many of us, because even
the quote-unquote inclusivechurches will often say things
like love the sinner, hate thesin.
Coach Alex Ray (36:15):
Right.
Oh, my God, I heard that somuch growing up.
Kaelan Strouse (36:19):
It's not inclusive, it doesn't feel good
and many of us are carrying alot of baggage around
religiosity and we'll use theterm religiosity as opposed to
spirituality.
The thing about spirituality isthat it is unbounded.
There is no dogma, there is norules.
(36:40):
You don't have to believe inGod to be spiritual.
You don't have to believe inJesus.
You don't have to believe insin.
You don't have to believe inany shit.
I think the most important firststep if you're questioning I'm
burned by religion, but I'd liketo have a spiritual life is to
(37:01):
cultivate the experience of awe,to try and approach a walk
outside with wonder, to see themajesty that exists in the
church, the crowds, the beautyof the sky, the earth.
Notice the awe you feel whenyou hold someone who loves you
(37:23):
and you love them.
Notice the awe that can betriggered from a really good
meal and start to experiencethat feeling of something
greater, that there is somethingexpansive and joyful and
powerful in this world and itdoesn't need a name.
It doesn't need to be calledGaia or God or Jesus or Holy
(37:45):
Spirit or Mother Earth or Shivaor Allah or whatever you want to
call it, but there is somethingawe-inspiring in this world and
if you just pursue theexperience of awe, you will be
connecting with spiritbeautifully said.
Coach Alex Ray (38:09):
I couldn't agree more.
One last thing that I wanted tobe able to kind of give our
listeners today for them to beable to take away and start
implementing right away Do youhave any recommendations, a tip
or something that our listenerscan take away to start stepping
(38:32):
into a little more connectedspiritual sexual practice?
And is this a universal tip oris this?
Do you have something specificfor people who have a partner or
partners, versus someone who'ssingle?
Kaelan Strouse (38:47):
Great Two things One is for yourself and one is
for somebody else.
Beautiful.
Next time you're going to havean intimate moment with someone
and this can be sexual, it couldalso just be with somebody or
good friends, that's fine tooTake a moment and breathe with
them.
Either hold each other and feeleach other chest to chest,
(39:09):
belly to belly or just placeyour hand on their heart and
breathe with them and noticewhat happens, because breath
carries our life force.
You can go days without eating,hours, sometimes days without
drinking, but you can only gofor a few moments without
breathing.
And so when you connect thatvital force of air prana, chi,
(39:31):
whatever you want to call itthrough the breath, intimacy
starts to occur.
So try that with somebody andthen with yourself.
A really useful tool andsomething that I often have my
clients do is practice the ardorwith self massage.
So many of us are not very kindto our bodies, but take 15
(39:55):
minutes tonight, go in thebathroom, sit down in town, go
get some massage oil or somecoconut oil and massage every
part of your body and while youdo it, appreciate whatever part
you're currently working on, saythank you to it, just notice
all the things it does for youand just feel like gratitude for
(40:16):
this amazing gift you've beengiven because, quite honestly,
this human body is the mostridiculously superb gift you
could have, better than any iPador any smartwatch or any
Ferrari.
The things that this body doesis absolutely phenomenal and if
you can appreciate it and startto see it as the miracle that it
(40:38):
is, your connection withyourself will change, and by
changing that, your connectionwith other people will as well.
Coach Alex Ray (40:47):
Amazing.
Oh, Kaelan, thank you so muchfor being here today, for like
sharing your wisdom and allthese tips with us.
I really appreciate having you.
We will link everything down inthe show notes for everyone,
but do you want to give everyonejust a quick little spiel about
(41:10):
where to find you and what youknow, what you have going on?
Kaelan Strouse (41:16):
Of course, youtube is my favorite platform.
Youtube.
com/ ecstatic self.
I have two books this far.
I'm working on my third rightnow.
The first is called Journey tothe Ecstatic Self and it is a
workbook so you can choose yourown adventure as you explore it
very much in the vein of all thethings you talked about today.
(41:37):
And the second book, if you likestories, is a fantasy novel.
So this idea of how do we comehome to ourselves, how do we
become more of a empoweredperson.
That story is told in the formof a parable about a teenage,
half dragon, who the book startswith him almost being lynched
by his classmates for beingdifferent, and the journey he
(41:59):
goes on to learn to love andaccept himself.
So those are two great thingsas well.
If you like the more spicy,erotic side of things that you
have on the make it Twitter andyour fans, if you'd like kind of
getting more behind the scenesof my life and what I'm doing,
phe on is a good place you canwork with me one on one through
my website, ecstatic Self, andthis year I'm going to start
(42:22):
planning increasing retreats andworkshops, so if you want to
come and hang out with a groupof 20 other people and do some
soulful work together.
You'd be more than welcome.
Coach Alex Ray (42:32):
Fabulous.
All right, Thank you so.
So much Again, y'all.
We will have all these linksdown in the show notes so that
you can find Kaelan's work veryeasily.
Please go check out his YouTube, go check out his books, go
work with him directly.
I'm just so thankful to haveyou here today and for all the
wisdom you shared with us.
(42:53):
Thanks for being here.
Kaelan Strouse (42:56):
Oh, thank you, it's been such a sincere
pleasure.
Coach Alex Ray (42:59):
Amazing.
All right, well, my unicorns, Iwill see you on the next
episode.
Bye.
Hello, my unicorns.
I'm so excited to be here withyou today with another guest
interview.
Today I have for you KaelanStrouse, who is better known
around the internet as ecstaticself.
Kaelan is an ecstaticspirituality coach with a
background in classical yoga,tantra, an author, an
award-winning actor, writer andfilm director, and I'm so
(00:25):
excited to have him on thepodcast today to share about his
experience with tantra, how hehelps his clients with their
tantra practices, and what youcan learn today about your own
spirituality and sexuality.
So, without further ado,welcome to the podcast, Kaelan.
Kaelan Strouse (00:45):
Such a pleasure to be here.
Thank you for having me.
Coach Alex Ray (00:47):
Yeah, thank you for being here.
I would love for you to likeintroduce yourself a little bit
more.
Tell everyone a little bit moreabout who you are and what you
do.
Kaelan Strouse (00:57):
Great.
Well, you did such a good jobintroducing me, but to add a
little bit more nuance to that,I've written a couple books on
how do we come home to ourselves, how do we find the most
authentic, integrated, radical,juicy version of ourselves that
is inclusive of our sexuality,that is inclusive of our
spiritual life, that isinclusive of all our crazy bits,
(01:20):
and that really is the focus ofwhat I help other people to
uncover within themselves.
So I host a YouTube channelcalled Ecstatic Self.
I've been doing it for aboutthree years now.
We've got about 265,000subscribers at this moment,
which kind of boggles my mindbecause I have no idea anybody
would be interested in this shit.
But, it's wonderful to have somany people engaging and I tell
(01:45):
people that the channel exploresthe intersection of meditation
and spirituality, queerness, sexand sexuality.
What is masculinity in today'sworld?
And then how do we bring thatall together to live an
authentic life and findbelonging both within ourselves
and in the wider world?
I work with largely men,largely gay men, but there are
some exceptions from around theworld.
(02:06):
Virtually I meet with peopleonce a week for about an hour
and I help them come home tothem so I can help them find
more integration and what wework on various person to person
.
Some people it's really abouttheir coming out journey or
still struggling with theirsexuality post coming out.
Some people it's aboutdeveloping a deep spiritual
practice.
Sometimes it's people who arereally struggling with
(02:27):
connecting with their sexualenergy and seeing that as
something very divorced fromhaving a spiritual life and
something shameful, so workingaround that shame.
My background that got me allinto this is I lived in an
ashram for seven years.
I got into yoga and meditationduring college and took a guru
kind of dove deep into thattradition.
I left that tradition around.
(02:48):
The same time I left working asa professional actor and in my
journey of like what comes next.
I started writing and I starteddoing corporate coaching and
when the pandemic started, Ikind of brought all that stuff
together with now doing my books, doing my YouTube channel,
working with people one on one,and I feel so immensely blessed
(03:09):
to get to do what I do and toengage with people who are
having life changing moments,who are really seeing themselves
evolve and develop and change,and getting this feedback that,
even in some small way, what I'mputting out there is making a
difference for them and helpingthem live a better life.
Coach Alex Ray (03:29):
It's amazing.
I'm so thankful that they likethat your clients have you, that
you're doing the work thatyou're doing out in the world.
Can you tell us a little bitmore about, like your personal
journey and how did you get intothis kind of work?
Were you always interested inspirituality?
Were you always interested inlike sexual dynamics or was?
(03:53):
How did this come along for you?
Kaelan Strouse (03:55):
Oh, I love that question because it is
definitely a journey, right,it's something that continuously
evolves.
As a young person, yeah, I wasalways very much interested in
spirituality.
I could remember havingconversations with God and
feeling like that was a verynormal experience as a little
kid Like it felt like somethingvery personal and tangible,
something that could very easilyconnect with.
And from a very young age I wasvery connected with sexuality.
(04:18):
I think I started masturbatingwhen I was like seven years old,
so pretty young, but sex wassomething that was very fearful
for me.
I grew up in a household wheremy father was shamed for
sexuality.
My father was a nudist and verysex positive.
He used to be a swinger and goto sex clubs, and my mother was
the opposite.
She has only ever had sex withmy father, so there was a lot of
shame around that.
(04:38):
And my father was also acloseted bisexual.
He came out, I think about fouryears ago, at around age 80.
God bless him.
So there was a lot of tensionaround same sex attraction as
well.
So for me, even though I became, you know, sexually active
pretty young with myself, I'mpicking something that I really
shut down, especially because ata young age I thought I really
(05:01):
wanted to succeed as an actor.
And even then I kind of got themessage that if you wanted to
be a successful actor then youcouldn't be gay.
And so I said, okay, well, I'lldo whatever it takes.
So I buried my sexuality.
I didn't end up even kissinganyone until I was 25 years old,
which you know.
(05:22):
Maybe it saved me someunfortunate decisions.
But you don't get to escaping ateenager.
You, even if you know if you'recoming out at 40, you're still
going to go through that chaoticturning process.
And so I had to do somedevelopment, some development
later in life then you'resupposed to a decade later at
(05:42):
least.
But when I was in college Istarted to get super into
spirituality and I grew upmethodically.
I never had an issue with thechurch, but I always felt that
there was something more.
I always felt like there was adeeper connection since the
Bec's Dissie, a sense of awe,majesty, engling, juiciness,
whatever you want to call it.
And the church couldn't give methat.
(06:03):
And I would ask, and all Iwould get back was join the
choir, join the youth group.
And I'm like, oh, that's not it.
I know there's more.
And so I started researching itwith the Buddhism, hinduism,
baha'i, mormonism.
I looked at everything andstarted really connecting with
yoga meditation.
And there was this one teacherI really connected with in
Chicago and she suggested that Igo and do a yoga teacher
(06:25):
training at this big ashram inthe Rocky Mountains and I had a
scholarship that paid for it andthe timing worked out perfect.
So I went to summer before mysenior year and I found a sense
of home.
I found a sense of belongingand answers to the questions I
was looking for, and this was atradition that I identified as
classically tantric.
(06:45):
So classically tantric, as it'sused often in the world, means
that it's divorced from anythingsexual.
It means those things, you canimagine them, but they're not
meant to be done.
And what's really hard aboutIndian Tantra, unlike Tibetan
Tantra, is it had to gounderground due to different
(07:06):
invading cultures who were veryinhospitable to sex and
sexuality, very inhospitable totaboo practices, and Tantra has
always been about exploring thetaboo, exploring that which is
not mainstream.
And by the time the Britsinvaded, it basically
disappeared, and so anybodywho's past practicing classical
(07:29):
Hindu Tantra is resurrecting atthat religion.
And because so much of it wasoral, there's no concrete or
sure way to be able to say whatit actually was.
There's a very good chance ofinvolve sex and sexuality, and
we can say that because if welook across the Hindu Way
mountains to Tibet, the Tibetanpractitioners of Tantra, the
(07:51):
Jain Buddhism Tantra, are stilldoing most of the same practices
as the people in India, butwith different names, in a
different language, and sex andsexuality is a big part of it.
And that was a revelation forme that when I ended up leaving
this community and starting toread the writings of Buddhist
Tantra teachers, realizing howmuch there still was of that.
(08:15):
So I spent almost a decade withthis teacher studying classical
Tantra, moved into thiscommunity, lived there, worked
there, did selfless service atfour hours of meditation almost
every day, and while I was thereI did my coming out process.
And during my coming outprocess I had a friend.
I was working as an actor atthe second study in Chicago.
(08:37):
Now one of my colleaguesinvited me to attend a
Neo-Tantra massage workshop.
So Neo-Tantra, new Tantra.
Whenever you hear people forwhom they say, hey, I do Tantra
and it's basically just likesensual massage or I don't have
better orgasms, that'sNeo-Tantra.
And so he invited me to one ofthose and I was so nervous I was
(08:58):
, I was visibly shaking walkinginto the building, one because I
was still a virgin and twobecause I knew I shouldn't be
there.
You know my, if my off-tron, ifmy teacher found out I'd been
there, I would not have been agood situation.
But I went and as I was walkinginto this building, walking up
the stairs, I heard an audiblevoice say this is part of the
(09:19):
work you're meant to be doing.
And that's only happened a fewtimes to me my life where I've
heard the voice of God or youknow, just somebody voice
speaking to me.
And I Remember hearing myselfreply back shut up, no way,
absolutely not.
And then behold, here we are adecade later.
So I'm not that I'm being verymuch the case.
(09:39):
Well, that voice was right on.
But one of the things that thatworks have kind of awakened in
me was an awareness, importantto know critical Connectionists
are critical human touches, howwe are not meant to be solitary
organisms, we are not meant tolive alone, we are pack animals.
And how tremendous the healingtouch, intimacy, seeing and
(10:04):
being seen breathing together,learning to be vulnerable as
somebody, can be A lesson that Iwould continue to learn as I
continued to come out and then,especially, after I met my life
partner I've been together withfor over eight years and just
seeing how much healing hasincurred has occurred through
loving each other and being witheach other.
So, as I've evolved as aspiritual practitioner and as
(10:29):
somebody who continues toexplore this wonderful world
called earth and all thepossibilities that it has from
living a vibrant and joyful life, the more and more that I have
felt that sex and sexuality hasto come apart of our spiritual
life, because it is so pleasantto our daily life and it's we
(10:50):
spend so much time and energyfocusing on sex, and Especially
if you're a gay man.
Right, like I, forget thestatistic the average amount of
time a gay man spend longerevery day is staggering.
We we will never Accept aspiritual path that tells you
that sex is bad.
We will never be able to accepta spiritual path that says
(11:13):
queerness is bad.
And in fact, I think the bestroute we can take is to find
connection to spirituality thatis not only inclusive of
sexuality but a celebratory ofsexuality, and say, hey, your
queerness is a gateway, yourlove of sex is a gateway to your
highest self and something thatI've really come to believe,
(11:34):
the longer that I have been onthis path, is the immense
sacredness and the queerexperience and queer meaning
fans, gay, whatever, anythingwhere you are Raking the tropes
of society, breaking the tropesof heteronormativity, breaking
the tropes of gender, what istraditionally gender appropriate
, because when you step outsideof those rules, you see
(11:58):
something from a differentperspective.
You are granted an advantage,what is an understanding of the
divine, or the universe, or Godor whatever you want to label it
?
But seeing the other, seeingthe other side and I Am a big
believer and there is researchthat has that pre-patriarchy,
free industrialization, thequeer people around the world
(12:22):
have been the holders of spirit,but they're the ones that would
be the priests, the shamans,the sages, the guardians of that
which is other.
And If we look at what are someof the major tropes of
modern-day life, lots of sex,lots of sex with multiple
partners, party drugs, parties,dancing All of these, in another
(12:47):
context, are all spiritualritual.
There have been, you know,sacred orgies.
There have been templeprostitutes using sex and
sexuality for a transformation.
There have been the use ofhallucinogenic substances to
change your mind, to step youout of your limited construct of
who you think you are.
I was that too, different fromyou know, Taking ecstasy at a
(13:08):
club.
Speaking of clubs, ritualisticdance, ecstatic dance, using
movement, repetitive motion,repetitive rhythms, flashing
lights to achieve us an alteredstate of awareness.
I think all these things thatwe ascribe as being the
quote-unquote, a experience ormainstream culture, are all
Vestiges of our spiritual pasttrying to resurrect themselves.
(13:30):
And yes, they are devoid ofcontext and yes, they are devoid
of Meaning and a deeprootedness, but they're still
there.
It is what we are drawn to,because that is part of our
purpose.
And Tantra, whether you'relooking at classical Tantra or
Buddhist Tantra or Neo Tantra,is so much about the embracing
of the outsider experience,about stepping out community and
(13:55):
going to the charnel grounds,the cremation grounds, and
communing with spirits.
We're wandering naked throughthe streets, covered in ash,
carrying a begging bowl made outof a human skull, or Having sex
with somebody who isn't yourpartner, or imbibing unholy flu,
unholy fluids and this ideathat if you can go into these
fearsome places, these tabooplaces, find God there, find
(14:20):
peace there, find serenity there, then use one, then you can go
anywhere, then you have achieveda stated being that can thrive
no matter what life throws atyou.
And that truly is the heart ofthe tantric message is God is
everywhere, god exists ineverything.
And when you can see the divinein the beggar on the street, in
(14:43):
your sex life, in the gettingfired from your job and losing
everything, in a really messysexual experience, no matter
what, if you can see thedivinity there, then you're
experiencing true Tantra.
It's the opposite ofrenunciation.
It's the opposite of saying Ihave to give up things to find
God.
(15:03):
I have to give up me, that youhave sex, I have to give up
alcohol, I have to give upwhatever.
Instead, it says I goeverywhere and I find the divine
in all.
Coach Alex Ray (15:14):
Beautifully said okay.
So I I'm wondering for someonethat's maybe listening right now
and is saying okay, I'm curious, I'm interested in hearing more
About Tantra.
I'm interested in hearing moreabout how I can maybe decrease
the shame around my sexuality.
(15:34):
Um, but maybe this person is.
They grew up with a spiritual,religious background that taught
them a lot of the same thingsthat you expressed the shame
around sex, particularly queersex.
(15:55):
What kind of advice would youhave to them, or even like your
younger self, right now to justput their mind at ease, so that
they could potentially takesomething away from today's
episode?
Kaelan Strouse (16:09):
Whenever I teach meditation and I teach a live
class every Sunday at 6pm on myYouTube channel, so feel free to
train it if that's useful toyou Whenever I start teaching
meditation, one of the veryfirst things I say is a lot of
yourself, to be where you are.
I think so many of us have thisstrong desire to change, or
give in the senses, to fix, tomove, to find a way of getting
(16:32):
comfortable right now, findingpeace right now, having the body
I want right now, whatever itis, and what that does is it
creates attention within us.
It creates, I often think,about one of the first laws of
physics every action has anopposite and equal reaction.
If you decide you want to bellyflop into the water because
(16:52):
you're hurling at several milesan hour and you are on a big
blown floor going against awatery surface, it's going to
feel like you smashed intoconcrete.
It's going to feel hard, and ifyou just step to the water's
edge and slip in, you'll moveeffortlessly.
And so the more force we have,the more we need and want, the
(17:14):
less we're going to shift, themore force is going to push back
at us, and so the very firstthing I encourage people to do
is to accept where you are.
It may not be comfortable, itmay not be fun, but allow
yourself to simply take a breathand accept your given
circumstances.
And when you can start to feela little release, a little
(17:37):
expansion, perhaps a little morebreath here you'll feel what I
like to call space.
In Tantra and my personalphilosophy there is nothing good
or bad, it simply is.
And the same way, there isnothing inherently negative or
positive, evil or good.
It's all the same energy, it'sall divine.
(18:00):
The differences are things canbe in the state of contraction,
where you think of it beingfrozen, all the molecules pulled
tighter together, it getssmaller, it doesn't move, versus
the state of expansion, wherethe molecules move a little
further apart and it stops beinga solid and maybe moves into a
liquid or a gas and things movemore freely and it takes up more
(18:22):
space.
When we are contracted, whensituations feel contracted, we
feel stuck, we feel depressed,we feel tight.
When we can breathe and let goand open up a little bit more,
suddenly we become a little morefluid, things can move, more
opportunities present themselves.
And so when we can create thisspace, then change becomes
(18:45):
possible.
And when we can let go of ourneed to fix and make it okay
right now and just accept it forwhat it is.
The ironic thing is then changehappens.
It's like the old adage whenyou stop looking for love, love
finds you All from that desireyou have is creating the
(19:06):
obstacle that's preventing it.
Coach Alex Ray (19:08):
We're like a watch pot and never boils Right
Like that's true.
Kaelan Strouse (19:13):
Yeah, and so this would be my message for
somebody who's dealing with asituation like this take a
moment, take a breath, acceptwhere you are, find a little
sense of expansion, find alittle sense of release, and
with that you'll often find alittle bit more clarity too.
You'll get an idea, you'll havea eureka moment, you'll have
(19:37):
new insights into your conditionbecause you're not so trapped
in the way you've been seeingthem, and then you can take a
step forward and a big believerthat a spiritual path should
never be something that totallyuproots us from where we came
from spans, plants and somethingelse.
I'm not a big believer in thebenefits of conversion I really
am but Dalai Lama says the samething.
(19:58):
Right, like don't become aBuddhist, stay in the tradition
you are, but then find the toolsthat are helpful for you where
you are.
Yeah, I'm using the word Tantratoday a lot because it's you
know what language you've beenusing when you've asked me to
talk about it, but if you go tomy YouTube channel, I very, very
rarely use that.
I think I have two or threevideos out of almost 400 up
(20:20):
there with Tantra in the title,just because it comes with a lot
of baggage and because I don'twant people to think I'm saying,
hey, you need to convert tothis other spiritual path, but
to say, hey, we can take theselessons, we can take these ideas
and allow them to meet youwhere you are, and I really do
think that you have everythingthat you need your personal
evolution, for your happiness,for your enlightenment if you
(20:42):
want to call it like that righthere and the area you find
yourself in as the tools, theteachers, the gifts, everything
you need.
If you just see it, if you justopen your eyes and become aware
of the miracles that alreadyare present in your life, you
don't need to go to India, youdon't need to go to Tibet, you
(21:03):
don't need to move into an outrofor seven years, like that, it
is all right here, if you justsee it.
Coach Alex Ray (21:10):
Amazing.
So with that you know I Know aminimal amount about Tantra.
I know what it is in general,but I would love to hear two
things.
One from what I understand,tantra tends to be phrased in a
very like gender binary way, soI would love to hear about how
(21:32):
you bring it to the queerexperience for gay people, trans
people, non-binary people.
And Can you also, before maybewe go there to querifying Tantra
, can you tell us a little bitmore about how you define it or
what Tantra is for somebodythat's maybe not familiar at all
?
Feel free to share.
(21:54):
I want to hear you like yourperspective on it.
You said that you don't evenuse the word Tantra much because
of the baggage that comes with.
Kaelan Strouse (22:00):
So so, yes, well , I will answer the question,
actually in the order you askedthem how it can be perceived as
being heteronormative.
Because if you look at a lot ofthe Quote-a-quote Tantric texts
the main ones that havesurvived that people turn to,
like the Vagana by Rava, they'reusually told in a Conversation
(22:23):
form between Shiva and Shakti,so the Divine Masculine and his
consorts, the Divine Feminine,and Shiva is supposedly, in the
text, the holder of theknowledge and he's explaining it
to the feminine, although wesee as you go further into the
text that she already knows allthe answers.
She's just asking them for thebenefit of the humans who are
(22:43):
receiving this.
So there is that national andfeminine paradise in in the text
.
However, it we have tounderstand is that everything we
receive From India comes froman imperialistic lens.
Indian culture was Decimated bythe breads when they invade and
(23:06):
took over, and, as we see rightnow this year, in Africa, where
a Ameran Christians have goneinto places like Uganda, who
were not traditionallyhomophobic, who actually revered
the queer experience forcenturies, millennia, and now
(23:28):
these Christian, these very,very restrictive Christian
ideals, because it was, you know, some of the most judgmental
Christians who went thereproselytizing now Uganda's
passing all this atrocioushomophobic legislation that and
put people in jail for theirlives just for being accused of
being gay.
(23:48):
So we can see how these can beexported and really do some
really nasty things to a culture.
The same thing happened inIndia, where it didn't used to
be homophobic Go back hundredsof years.
It used to be very celebratoryof the queer experience and
there are still some vestiges ofthat today where you see, well,
(24:11):
we would call trans or we wouldcall gender non-conforming,
where they have special termsfor them and they're considered
good luck to invite to yourwedding and you know that
they've pursued as you both canperform curses and so if they
ask you for a dollar, you bettergive it to them, like.
So there is still some Fuzzyrespect for them, we can see.
(24:32):
But unfortunately India hasbecome incredibly homophobic
because of the British invasionand I have point-blank had
Indian people tell me I cannotpractice yoga because I'm a gay
man, and of course that'sbullshit.
That is absolutely bullshit.
And then when we look at thetantric tradition specifically
(24:53):
and yoga can be tantric, itcannot, and the other term is
sutric.
Sutric is renunciation.
Tantric is what we've beentalking about.
When we look at the tantricpath, which is all about brain,
social.
It's all about embracing thetaboo.
Of course queerness finds ahome there, right Like?
What is the clear experienceabout the breaking of
(25:15):
heteronormative Like?
Even if you're a cisgender,very masculine, presenting gay
man, you are still breakinggender norms because you're
doing nothing that men are notsupposed to do, right that you
are.
You are Shucking off thetraditional labels of
masculinity.
By having sex with another man,you are fulfilling the woman's
(25:36):
role in a way.
So it doesn't matter howmasculine or feminine presenting
you are still gendernonconforming.
You are still breaking societaltaboos.
So I believe tantric in itselfis very inclusive and if you
look at some of the well-knownTibetan teachers of tantra, they
(25:57):
have been very embracing of theLGBTQ community and they have,
in their ratings, talked abouthow tantric can be applied to
Gay couples and gay sex.
Now they will say that ourstudent practices that can only
be done when being done betweena man and a woman.
I don't know how much I agreewith that, because the truth is,
(26:20):
as we all hold the balance ofthe masculine and feminine, and
one of the wonderful thingsabout being queer is we have a
greater balance on that withinus than a heterosexual person or
gender normative person has,because they need the opposite
to find balance right.
A cisgendered man needs acisgendered woman to find a true
(26:43):
sense of balance.
As queer folk, we already havethat balance.
We already are existing,holding the polarity continuum
within us.
And how sacred is that, howspecial is that?
And many ways that makes usmore divine, because we are
already encompassing of thetotality of human experience in
(27:05):
our gender, not normative inthis, in our sexuality, not
formativeness.
And so I Can see Tentra asbeing a wonderfully abrasive of
the queer experience.
And again, remember the factthat we are not doing real
Tantra.
It's dead and gone, at leastthe Indian region is.
And if you want to do BuddhistTantra, then great.
(27:27):
You're gonna have to go convertto Vajran, a Buddhism, which
you can go do.
But like I said earlier, Ithink it's best to meet us where
we are, to root ourselves intoour own natural habitat, not
transplant us to some differentforest on the other side of the
globe and see, we can take theseideas, we can take these tools
and then bury them in thefertile earth around us, let
(27:52):
them sprout into Analogouspractices that are similar but
rooted in our culture in thesame way that we've got pyramids
in Egypt, so we've got pyramidsin Central America.
They're both pyramids or alittle bit different, but
they're both pyramids fromaround the same time.
Ish, right, we make it our ownand then we turn it into this
beautifully queer, rainbow,kaleidoscopic spiritual
(28:16):
tradition that is inclusive ofour lives, where we are, because
we're never, never, gonna beable to live the life of went to
that or Indian person.
We're never gonna be able tolive the life that they have,
because it is a completelydifferent culture, it's a
completely different experience,it is a completely different
world, world view advantage.
(28:36):
So how do we make it our ownand how do we make it something
contemporary, present, helping,appreciative of the traditions
from?
Once again, all of that, Ithink, leads into your second
question of what is Tantra?
It's everything we've beentalking about.
It's the embracing of the ideathat the divine is and
(28:56):
everything, and everyone andevery object, whether we would
consider it's Lentine term ofGod exists everywhere, that you
find God by embracing everythingrather than inject, rejecting
it, to see that we Hold polaritywithin ourselves and within
each other, and that polaritycan be masculine and feminine.
It can be the light in the dark, positive, negative uphill down
(29:20):
here.
Why do you want to call it thatwe are encompassing all, of all
of it, that everything isdefined.
Everything is sacred For me.
That's how I would define it.
Coach Alex Ray (29:32):
Awesome.
Thank you for all of that.
I just really enjoyed gettingto listen to you and your
perspective there.
I really enjoy the way you aresharing with us I know this word
has connotations that peoplemay not like but appropriating
(29:58):
these practices for integratinganother culture's practices into
our own, learning from it,respecting it, honoring it and
letting ourselves learn from it.
So you just kind of take whatworks for us personally, leave
the rest and know that we canmake like you've talked about
(30:20):
with easing into a pool, likekind of more gradual changes, as
opposed to oh, you need to go,you know, move into an ashram,
become a monk.
You've got to fully change 100%of everything about your life.
That's just not realistic ortrue, and go ahead.
(30:41):
It looks like you have thoughtsor responses to that?
Kaelan Strouse (30:44):
I appreciate you bringing up the word
appropriation because obviouslyit's something that we have all
become sensitized to in the last30, 40 years or so, this idea
that, oh you know, we don't wantto take this culture's thing
and use it because of thehistory of exploitation, because
of the history of, you know,reducing a very rich, complex
(31:06):
thing to something oftencommodifiable, that often is
being exploited for resources,for ideas, for money.
But when we kind of stepoutside of the box of which we
use the word appropriation andlook at the larger and more
historical perspective,everything historically has been
about the free trade of ideas.
(31:27):
We even look at people'scuisines throughout the world.
You know, garlic is used, cuminis used from Mexico to India,
like it is used throughout theworld.
It didn't start off that way.
It's because of trade, becauseof cultural mingling.
Everything we have is becauseof sharing.
And if we even look at like abiological perspective on this,
(31:51):
bacteria, viruses, they surviveand thrive because they're
constantly exchanging DNA,they're constantly exchanging
genetic information.
We do the same thing.
We are exchanging cells, we'reexchanging information.
I am the person I am todaybecause of the people I've had
intimate connections with in mypast.
I've picked up things from them, I've learned from them, I've
(32:15):
adopted gestures and facialexpressions and terms of phrases
because of the people I'veinteracted with.
So to make this idea that weexchange and take from other
cultures and take from otherpeople a universally bad or
malevolent thing, not a fariousthing, is doing it such a
disservice, because we are againcreatures that are tribal, that
(32:39):
are connected, that are meantto be in communication and
exchanging and having thingsfree flow.
And, yes, we pay respect andyes, we honor it and yes, we
also make sure that it issomething that it's okay to take
, that we're not takingsomething that they say no, no,
no, no, this is sacred drugs.
You have a lot of use it Likethere's a conversation right now
around the peyote plant withindigenous cultures where they
(33:03):
do not want Westerners or whitepeople using the sacred peyote
plant and saying, well, maybeyou can use a synthesized
version of the synthetic version, but this is for our culture
only.
You know that is an interestingconversation and this is one
that is important to be having,but these ideas and these
practices are being willfullygiven, willingly given.
(33:25):
They're saying, yes, take them,use them.
Please use these things.
That will make the world abetter place.
The issue I have is, as a whiteman from Chicago, I don't want
to go and say I'm now an expertin cashier shave by Tentra, and
there are people who do that.
There are a lot of people whocome and say, ah yeah, I'm from
(33:46):
Kansas, but now I'm an expert inVajrayana Buddhist Sandra.
Right, I'm from New York, butnow I've gotten three degrees in
Sanskrit and I can answer allthe questions about you know,
vedanta.
I think there's a lot ofHebrews there and there's some
really beautiful Tantra teacherswho have done that, and I
personally don't want to be oneof them.
(34:07):
I don't want to go and say, hey,I'm going to become an expert
in something foreign.
I'd rather take these ideas,study them, learn from masters,
learn from people who've usedthem in depth, and then bring
them back, strip them of theircultural context, strip them of
what made them them, becausethese are universal truths.
Even the term for Hinduism isSantana Dharma, which means the
(34:28):
eternal truth that if you justpay attention, you'll discover
these same things.
Take them and say how can Imake them relevant to here?
How can I root them in today'sculture and make them something
that doesn't feelculture-appropriative but still
retain the heart and the souland make it something that is
universal.
Coach Alex Ray (34:46):
Yeah, yeah, I think you used a really
important word there justlearning as we all interact with
each other or travel or read afucking book.
You don't have to rip out thepages of the book and then like
it's some kind of limitedresource.
These are ideas that we'resharing and learning from and
(35:13):
you're taking it, you're usingit in a more Western context and
a queer context.
I'm just so glad that you'remore like translating than
anything else.
Kaelan Strouse (35:28):
I know that yeah .
Coach Alex Ray (35:31):
I wanted to touch on we don't have to spend
a lot of time here, because Ithink you've already given us
quite a good idea around how todeal with us already but
specifically the spiritualportion of what you do.
What would you say to someonethat has maybe a lot of
religious trauma or baggage?
They feel that their queeridentity clashes with anything
(35:52):
spiritual?
How would you addresssomebody's concerns or questions
around spirituality in the waythat you practice spirituality?
Kaelan Strouse (36:05):
That is the case for so many of us, because even
the quote-unquote inclusivechurches will often say things
like love the sinner, hate thesin.
Coach Alex Ray (36:15):
Right.
Oh, my God, I heard that somuch growing up.
Kaelan Strouse (36:19):
It's not inclusive, it doesn't feel good
and many of us are carrying alot of baggage around
religiosity and we'll use theterm religiosity as opposed to
spirituality.
The thing about spirituality isthat it is unbounded.
There is no dogma, there is norules.
(36:40):
You don't have to believe inGod to be spiritual.
You don't have to believe inJesus.
You don't have to believe insin.
You don't have to believe inany shit.
I think the most important firststep if you're questioning I'm
burned by religion, but I'd liketo have a spiritual life is to
(37:01):
cultivate the experience of awe,to try and approach a walk
outside with wonder, to see themajesty that exists in the
church, the crowds, the beautyof the sky, the earth.
Notice the awe you feel whenyou hold someone who loves you
(37:23):
and you love them.
Notice the awe that can betriggered from a really good
meal and start to experiencethat feeling of something
greater, that there is somethingexpansive and joyful and
powerful in this world and itdoesn't need a name.
It doesn't need to be calledGaia or God or Jesus or Holy
(37:45):
Spirit or Mother Earth or Shivaor Allah or whatever you want to
call it, but there is somethingawe-inspiring in this world and
if you just pursue theexperience of awe, you will be
connecting with spiritbeautifully said.
Coach Alex Ray (38:09):
I couldn't agree more.
One last thing that I wanted tobe able to kind of give our
listeners today for them to beable to take away and start
implementing right away Do youhave any recommendations, a tip
or something that our listenerscan take away to start stepping
(38:32):
into a little more connectedspiritual sexual practice?
And is this a universal tip oris this?
Do you have something specificfor people who have a partner or
partners, versus someone who'ssingle?
Kaelan Strouse (38:47):
Great Two things One is for yourself and one is
for somebody else.
Beautiful.
Next time you're going to havean intimate moment with someone
and this can be sexual, it couldalso just be with somebody or
good friends, that's fine tooTake a moment and breathe with
them.
Either hold each other and feeleach other chest to chest,
(39:09):
belly to belly or just placeyour hand on their heart and
breathe with them and noticewhat happens, because breath
carries our life force.
You can go days without eating,hours, sometimes days without
drinking, but you can only gofor a few moments without
breathing.
And so when you connect thatvital force of air prana, chi,
(39:31):
whatever you want to call itthrough the breath, intimacy
starts to occur.
So try that with somebody andthen with yourself.
A really useful tool andsomething that I often have my
clients do is practice the ardorwith self massage.
So many of us are not very kindto our bodies, but take 15
(39:55):
minutes tonight, go in thebathroom, sit down in town, go
get some massage oil or somecoconut oil and massage every
part of your body and while youdo it, appreciate whatever part
you're currently working on, saythank you to it, just notice
all the things it does for youand just feel like gratitude for
(40:16):
this amazing gift you've beengiven because, quite honestly,
this human body is the mostridiculously superb gift you
could have, better than any iPador any smartwatch or any
Ferrari.
The things that this body doesis absolutely phenomenal and if
you can appreciate it and startto see it as the miracle that it
(40:38):
is, your connection withyourself will change, and by
changing that, your connectionwith other people will as well.
Coach Alex Ray (40:47):
Amazing.
Oh, Kaelan, thank you so muchfor being here today, for like
sharing your wisdom and allthese tips with us.
I really appreciate having you.
We will link everything down inthe show notes for everyone,
but do you want to give everyonejust a quick little spiel about
(41:10):
where to find you and what youknow, what you have going on?
Kaelan Strouse (41:16):
Of course, youtube is my favorite platform.
Youtube.
com/ ecstatic self.
I have two books this far.
I'm working on my third rightnow.
The first is called Journey tothe Ecstatic Self and it is a
workbook so you can choose yourown adventure as you explore it
very much in the vein of all thethings you talked about today.
(41:37):
And the second book, if you likestories, is a fantasy novel.
So this idea of how do we comehome to ourselves, how do we
become more of a empoweredperson.
That story is told in the formof a parable about a teenage,
half dragon, who the book startswith him almost being lynched
by his classmates for beingdifferent, and the journey he
(41:59):
goes on to learn to love andaccept himself.
So those are two great thingsas well.
If you like the more spicy,erotic side of things that you
have on the make it Twitter andyour fans, if you'd like kind of
getting more behind the scenesof my life and what I'm doing,
phe on is a good place you canwork with me one on one through
my website, ecstatic Self, andthis year I'm going to start
(42:22):
planning increasing retreats andworkshops, so if you want to
come and hang out with a groupof 20 other people and do some
soulful work together.
You'd be more than welcome.
Coach Alex Ray (42:32):
Fabulous.
All right, Thank you so.
So much Again, y'all.
We will have all these linksdown in the show notes so that
you can find Kaelan's work veryeasily.
Please go check out his YouTube, go check out his books, go
work with him directly.
I'm just so thankful to haveyou here today and for all the
wisdom you shared with us.
(42:53):
Thanks for being here.
Kaelan Strouse (42:56):
Oh, thank you, it's been such a sincere
pleasure.
Coach Alex Ray (42:59):
Amazing.
All right, well, my unicorns, Iwill see you on the next
episode.
Bye.
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