February 23, 2025 • 34 mins
In this quietly inspiring dialogue of The Quiet Warrior podcast, Serena Low chats with Jawaria Mahmood, a dynamic advocate from Perth, Western Australia. Jawaria shares her inspiring journey from being an engineer in Pakistan to becoming a trailblazer for bilingual storytime sessions in Australian libraries, a champion for STEM education for young girls, and a dedicated advocate for cyber safety in diverse communities. Her story is one of resilience, cultural pride, and unwavering commitment to making a difference.
What You’ll Hear in This Episode:
- Jawaria’s experience as a migrant woman starting over in Australia
- The spark behind her bilingual storytime initiative and how it grew into a national project
- Her work in promoting STEM careers for young girls, especially from migrant backgrounds
- The challenges and importance of cyber safety education for children and vulnerable communities
- Jawaria’s advice for advocates: Start where you are, stay persistent, and keep your purpose in mind
Memorable Quotes:
“A quiet warrior is someone who doesn’t give up when things aren’t working, but looks inward, adapts, and tries again.” – Jawaria Mahmood
Resources and Links Mentioned:
- Connect with Jawaria Mahmood on LinkedIn
- Learn more about the Professional Migrant Women Network and the Undefeated book
Timestamps:
00:00 – Welcome and introduction
02:15 – Jawaria’s journey from Pakistan to Australia
08:30 – The birth of bilingual storytime sessions
15:50 – Advocating for STEM careers for young girls
22:45 – Cyber safety challenges and education
30:10 – Advice for new migrants and building support networks
38:20 – What makes a good advocate and a quiet warrior
If you enjoyed this episode, please rate, review, and share The Quiet Warrior podcast so more introverts and quiet achievers can find their path to success. Thank you for being here with us – see you in the next episode!
This episode was edited by Aura House Productions
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, I'm Serena Loh.
If you're used to hearing thatintroverts are shy, anxious,
antisocial and lack goodcommunication and leadership
skills, then this podcast is foryou.
You're about to fall in lovewith the calm, introspective and
profound person that you are.
Discover what's fun, unique andpowerful about being an
(00:22):
introvert, and how to make theelegant transition from quiet
achiever to quiet warrior inyour life and work anytime you
want, in more ways than youimagined possible.
Welcome, Welcome to anotherepisode of the Quiet Warrior
podcast.
Today I'm speaking with JawariaMahmood from Perth in Western
(00:45):
Australia, and I'm particularlyfascinated, Jawaria, by your
story and by what you'recurrently doing in the community
.
So welcome to the Quiet Warriorpodcast.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Hi Serena, thank you so much for having me.
It's.
It just came by surpriselooking at the name and I was
like what will will I add toyour podcast?
So I'm really looking forwardto contributing.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Jawaria, I first came across your story in the
Professional Migrant WomenNetwork book, which was launched
maybe two years ago now.
I think it's called Undefeatedand it has over a hundred
stories of how professionalmigrant women have adjusted to
life in Australia, the obstacleswe've overcome, and I know you
(01:29):
contributed two stories there.
So could you share with us someof your background and your
story and your journey of comingto Australia?
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Yeah, that's right, I think you were there too.
We are co-authors forUndefeated.
So hello, fellow.
So my background I was born inPakistan.
There I studied engineeringbecause, as you know, the Asian
parents only give you an optionof becoming a doctor or an
engineer.
So after finishing my studies,I worked in government and
(02:04):
corporate sectors in executiveroles.
So yeah, Very cool.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
And what was it like for you being a migrant woman in
Australia?
The whole thing about startingover, about being disconnected
from culture.
How did you retain yourheritage and how did you keep
your identity strong?
Speaker 2 (02:28):
yeah, great question.
Well, the journey for me wasfull of struggles.
Career-wise.
I was told that I have to startfrom scratch.
It was harder because I had awell-established life from the
worldly perspective, and byworldly perspective I mean on
the outside.
I had a house and a car and astable job, but I felt like
(02:54):
there are not many opportunitiesfor growth.
So I just took on the challengeto move this far away, and for
that I have to leave the supportbehind of my trusted friends
and colleagues.
And on top of that there wasfinancial hardship, which comes
(03:14):
as, coming from a third worldcountry, I would say because of
the currency rates.
No matter how much big pile ofmoney you come with, it just
immediately gets slashed down toa fraction.
And it was also complex for mebecause I came as a family, so I
couldn't save money andcompromise by living in a dodgy
(03:37):
accommodation.
Speaking English was not aproblem for me, so I got a bit
lucky there.
But then there was a verydifferent culture and way of
life that I had to adjust to andI kind of felt the disconnect,
not exactly for me but for mydaughter where, thinking that
(03:59):
she won't be able to have thesame cultural experiences that I
I had, and I won't be able topass on any of the traditions
that I grew up with.
So this is, this is what thiswas my thought process at that
point in time.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
I think what you, what you just said there, is
very important, because when weare in our home country,
sometimes we may take thoseaspects for granted.
Because when we are in our homecountry, sometimes we may take
those aspects for grantedbecause we are immersed in them
all day long.
They are there, we don't haveto worry about them, we know who
we are and we are with ourpeople.
But as soon as you step acrossinto a new country where the
(04:40):
culture is very different andyou are trying to process all
these differences at the sametime, trying to feel secure in
who you are and trying toremember who you are, and then
also having children, and thenbeing a parent and looking at it
from that angle, it becomesmuch more urgent and vital to do
(05:07):
something.
So what was the something thatyou decided to do?
Speaker 2 (05:11):
um, well, I had a career break to raise my
children, primarily becausethere was no family support here
and I was apparently startingfrom scratch.
So I'd rather spend a littlebit time with my kids and start
from scratch a few years later,kind of situation.
So I had kind of all the timeon earth to facilitate their
(05:32):
learning and growth and we wereused to go to like multiple
activities during the week Sensereplay, swimming, gymnastics,
rhyme time.
We did lots of arts and craftsand one of them was the story
time in the library.
I was used to attend thatweekly story time, uh, which
sometimes had themes as well.
(05:54):
They were used to read booksabout moms around mother's day
and a dream time story aroundNAIDOC week and so on and so
forth, and one of the themes isaround Harmony Week, where we
celebrate the diversity ofcultures that we have in
Australia.
(06:15):
So the session was pretty muchthe same, which started on the
day with a few formal statementsthat this is Harmony Week and
how it is a safe place toembrace different cultures and
we have the freedom to practiceour religion, and then they took
out a book in English, as everyother week, and started reading
(06:38):
it, as they did always, whichdidn't sit right with me.
So after the session I walkedup to the person and said there
are so many other languages andcultures in the world If you
have ever considered reading abook in a different language for
this week and that persondidn't know much about how it
(07:00):
was even possible.
But she just told me about thenext person who I can talk to.
So I kind of navigated my wayon.
You know how we can make ithappen.
So then I was able to talk toyou know the person who was able
to make the decisions on it,and we did all the relevant
(07:21):
paperwork which and then we kindof mapped out the whole, how
the whole session will be run,which was, um, very similar to
how the regular sessions wererun, and I also provided them
sentence by sentence translationto make it inclusive for the
people who don't understand urdu, because it was a walk-in kind
(07:43):
of session in a public library.
Urdu because it was a walk-inkind of session in a public
library.
And I also kind of tied in thewhole story with a craft
activity to tie in some of theSTEM principles.
And then we went from there.
Now I have delivered the storytime sessions in multiple
libraries around multiple citycouncils.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
So yeah, that crazy idea in the beginning proved
very successful that is anincredible, crazy idea that just
started out from you wantingyour daughter to experience her
own culture and from there manymore children get to listen to
other languages besides English,which then opens their minds
(08:27):
and opens their hearts to beingable to connect better when they
have a classmate from adifferent culture at school.
It gives them something to talkabout, it gives them a way to
be curious.
Maybe they might recognize orremember a word or two here and
there, and that gets themexcited about learning.
And I know what it's like, andI'm sure you do too, when you
(08:48):
hear someone else from adifferent culture making an
attempt to speak your languageor greet you or say hello or
something.
It just makes you feel so seenand so special, doesn't it?
Yes, that's right.
Right.
So this initiative, how far hasit spread now?
Has it gone beyond Perth?
Speaker 2 (09:11):
um, like I mentioned the story time, I did it in
Purdue, like getting feedbackfrom the people who attended,
which was always wonderful.
So I kind of started advocatingbased on more, not just the
research but also like theground reality.
Yes, we know it helps familiesfeel connected and the kids
(09:32):
become more resilient.
But then to show that there isan appetite from the community
for this kind of sessions andthen they want more of them.
This is from where I grew mysessions to the point where I'm
now part of the project, whereI'm like collating my knowledge
and experience, uh, deliveringthese sessions which will help
(09:56):
facilitate similar sessions inany language.
And then we got we got evenfunding to execute that as part
of the family literacy grantsprogram from better beginnings.
So it's, it's going to be long.
Now the information will beaccessible like nationwide and
not just limited to Utu language.
(10:16):
If there is any parent who isas passionate as me but speaking
a different language, they willhave somewhere to start.
I'm kind of leaving a legacybehind.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
You are.
Indeed, you are quite thetrailblazer and pioneer, and
very proactive, I think, intaking an idea that you believe
strongly in and then executingon it with the help of other
people.
So there's a lot of differentskills and traits that I see
there that I really want toacknowledge you for, and to
(10:50):
circle back and switch gears alittle bit, you talked about
STEM and you started off as anengineer.
How are you bringing your STEMexpertise into the community now
, because I know that you do alot of work in the community,
especially in the cold cultures.
How is that working out?
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Well, it's working out in two ways.
I am contributing voluntarilyfor two organizations in their
committee, so I'm part ofEngineers Australia.
For a few years now we're partof the D&I committee, which is
helping engineers integrate wellinto the relevant workforce and
(11:34):
not staying those survival jobs.
So there was a big research.
The economic benefits are there.
It is for the employeeswell-being as well and the
employers get benefit from fromthe diversity of thought that
comes as part of having, youknow, migrant workforce.
That is for adults primarily,but for students.
(11:58):
I am kind of creating thesupport that I had missing when
I was studying, which is kind ofopening eyes of those young
girls about the careers that arearound STEM.
I was the only one in my familyand the broader community who
(12:22):
studied engineering and Ithought it's it's only because I
was in pakistan.
But when I came here I foundout that the challenges were
were very similar and there arecertain assumptions about some
careers, like for engineering,it is just usually believed it's
not for girls, becauseengineers work on site and
(12:43):
they're wearing hard hat andsteel cap, boots etc.
And and I never did it as partof my career in pakistan, so I
knew that I I can educate peopleabout it.
And it was also kind of killingthe spark for the girls who
perhaps wanting to stem in, get,get into stem careers but they
(13:05):
were told, um, that they're moresuitable for caregiving roles,
like teachers and nurses, sokind of breaking those
stereotypes.
So we just introduce all thoseinteresting careers around and
women come and speak to younggirls and all those women that I
get a chance to speak to whocome as role models are the ones
who said that well, I still hadto deal with all these kind of
(13:28):
assumptions when someone becamea supercomputer engineer and
there was a woman who was doingresearch on turtles, so all
these kind of things.
It just even fascinates me atmy age.
So it really shines light ineyes of all those young girls
(13:49):
who are fascinated by howinteresting these STEM careers
can be.
They don't have to be boringall the time.
And my own initiative is whereI'm delivering cyber education
workshops for school childrenfor communities.
Workshops for school childrenfor communities, how they are
(14:11):
kind of targeted by cybercriminals and there's
exponential growth of you knowrate in which they are getting
scammed, in australia especially.
So kind of educating them onhow they can protect themselves,
what are the risks involved.
And yeah, this is where it cameacross, because the information
is changing pretty rapidly.
What happens in cyber is youlearn to tackle a situation one
(14:33):
way and then there is anotherway to exploit you.
Um, so I was.
I was just recently talking tosomeone where um previously, I
was used to tell parents how toprotect their kids online is you
block certain explicit words inyour settings and you know when
(14:54):
your children are connected totheir devices, they'll not be
able to access it.
It will get blocked.
But what happened over time isyou know, the people found a way
, like a maybe, to access thosechildren.
Still Now they're playing thoseonline games where there are
chat rooms, so children have anaccess, like not children have
(15:15):
an access, but strangers have anaccess to our children while
they are in those chat rooms andplaying a game.
So there is interesting that aball of noodles is used as an
emoji to send it to the people.
And I was talking to a fewparents and say do you know what
(15:36):
that actually means?
And I just created a poll aboutit too, and I think 15 people
voted and 14 said they don'tknow.
People voted and 14 said theydon't know, um, and that the
people who said that they knowwhat it is, I was like did you
just find out?
Because because I asked aboutit, or did you know it
previously?
So noodles is pretty much.
You know the team's way of uh,shortening the things is become
(15:58):
like, if you, if you say it in acool way, it's become nudes and
that n-double-o-d-l-e-s kind ofgoes, goes to nudes,
n-double-o-d-s, but it actuallymeans n-u-d-e-s, which is kind
of asking them for thosepictures, which is I would block
(16:21):
the word maybe, and it won'tstill really work because it was
just an emoji sent to the child, which means the whole thing.
So, yeah, there's lots that weare doing, but then these people
are finding back doors too it'scrazy out there on how they are
(16:41):
approaching the children and weneed to just educate our
children about the risks thatare involved in how to protect
themselves.
And the big part of what I do inmy workshops is the reporting,
so where you can report, if any,any incident and similar that
(17:03):
comes as a scam or a cyber crime, because you can stay quiet
about it and try to hide it.
And I know it's a bitembarrassing.
I do understand when kids don'twant to accept that they made a
mistake and they feel likethey'll get in trouble if they
tell their parents.
So they try to hide it, but Ijust tell them every time that
(17:26):
please report because someoneneeds to know before we can do
something about it.
So I was actually speaking toanother teenager that I know
what it means and he was likewhy do you know?
Why do you need to know?
And I was like I need to knowso I can tell you how to be safe
online and I can educate otherpeople.
So, yeah, it's interesting outthere educating those young
(17:51):
people and it's a bit scary aswell.
I don't know what the peopleare coming up with next and I'm
like kind of chasing to updatemy knowledge.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Well, you've made me very nervous now and I probably
need to go check with mychildren what they think a bowl
of noodles means, and I'm hopingthey will tell me it's the
late-night snack they have whenthey're hungry and they're
playing computer games, andnothing more than that.
I'm quite happy with that.
But I'm thinking also, jawaria,it's not just as a parent.
(18:25):
Yes, I am extremely concernedand I'm finding that it's so
hard to keep up with all thiswhen there's so many other
pressing commitments to attendto, and you know, I don't know
how many parents are so savvy orso aware that there are all
these aspects to look at, and itgets harder as the children get
older.
(18:45):
I wonder if there is also asituation where we are having to
do the same for our parents,who also struggle to keep up
with technological changes andscams and all sorts of other
things that go on online, andthen we're also having to help
them navigate that.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
There are some government initiatives where
they're providing this kind ofinformation, but I cannot
comment on how much the reach ofthose programs is.
Otherwise, yeah, there'sprivate providers who are doing
it in collaboration, you know,in collaboration with different
(19:26):
agencies.
I work with somenot-for-profits where I go and
speak to their audience.
So there they are women who arefrom migrant backgrounds.
There's some some women who arein the job seeker groups, and
agencies are like facilitatingthem.
So these women are like really,really vulnerable because they
are and they are targeted inthat way where they kind of
(19:48):
promise the job and then theyare asked for money and you know
, when someone is in thatdesperate situation, they just
fall for this kind of scam.
So I just go and talk to themabout that.
This is not how employment worksin Australia.
It might be different in yourcountries where you come from.
So, yeah, different, differentcommunity groups, countries
where you come from.
Um, so, yeah, different,different community groups that
(20:08):
I'm working with and thenaddressing different aspects of
what they need to know and howthey can protect themselves
online.
And again, yeah, the reportingaspect is I'm pretty big on it.
I don't scare people, but Ijust tell them.
You need to tell someone sothey can come and protect you
too.
It's pretty much more of theeducation and awareness side of
things, um.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
So yeah, hopefully the message will spread across
I'm sure it will spread withtime and especially after this
podcast interview goes out andpeople become even more aware.
I'm thinking from the point ofview of being a migrant, being a
woman, being of a differentculture, maybe not speaking the
(20:55):
language of the country that youmove to.
There would be a lot ofbarriers for someone who is new
to the community.
What kind of support networksor what should they know about
when they first come to a newcountry, let's say, when they
come to Australia?
What should they be consciousof and what should they start
(21:17):
making an effort to do in orderthat they can integrate in a
healthy and positive way intothe new community?
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Well, the very first thing I would say would be
because I've been a migrantmyself and the early few weeks
and months is pretty much whenyou're on your own and not
really have a network to kind ofdiscuss this is what happened
and what should I do about it.
But I would always say trustyour intuition.
If it sounds too good to betrue, probably double check and
(21:53):
try to look for maybe dots thatconnect and you'll find
information that just falls offplace, that it seems off.
So, yeah, it is harder forreally newcomers where they're
not provided all thatinformation directly.
They are in survival modeanyway.
(22:14):
Uh, sorting out their, maybe.
If they are coming as refugees,so the trauma services that are
really vital at that point intime, and looking for a job, so
the income they have, a steadyincome for that you know, you
know bills are pretty big here,um, and if they're coming from,
(22:34):
like I would say, countrieswhich which are not having that
much stable economy, sosurviving here becomes their,
like, primary objective, andwhich is then exploited by all
these cyber criminals, I wouldsay so I would still say, start
looking for maybe information ifthis, again, this is where the
(22:58):
reporting thing comes in play aswell, because when it is
reported now, it just comes onone forum or the other in online
groups where they mention thatthis is something happening
recently or something new.
That pops up pretty much like Iput the noodles thing in there
in a fun way that certain, justlike this one, certain emojis
(23:26):
and certain, uh, combination ofwords are used for a meaning
which is not as innocent looking.
Um, so it is pretty much.
If you, if you look it uponline, probably you'll find
some information.
It is just as how easilyaccessible those resources are.
I'll get there when I you know,take it to the bigger level and
(23:50):
make it a national campaign,like I did for my bilingual
story time, but at the momentI'm doing as best as I can.
Yeah, this is the only thing Ican point to at this point in
time.
We'll just do maybe a quickGoogle to verify.
Is it possible?
Is this how we look for jobs inAustralia, where you have to
(24:10):
pay the money, or is it notnormal and similar things?
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Yeah, Thank you.
So because you are so heavilyinvolved in advocacy work, I
want to ask you what makessomeone a good advocate.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Well, that's a big one.
I would say persistence, andwhat helped me was I started
where I was and I didn't.
I had plans to make the biggerimpact, but I knew that I have
to do it in a smaller settingand prove my point to be able to
(24:56):
grow bigger.
So I would say you choose whathardship you are ready to bear
and then again, that makes youfeel brave as well.
When you know again reportingcomes there when you know how
(25:18):
people are suffering as a resultof when they are getting
scammed, you become a lot morepassionate about okay, I need to
tell about 10 different scamsthat are happening at this point
in time to 10 different groupsand set it as my personal target
and go from there.
So, yeah, this is how I kind ofroll and this is how I get my
strength from, because I'mconnected to really grassroots
(25:41):
communities and I can see theimpact straight away.
It just keeps me motivated.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
So what I heard you say was to start where you are
and ensure that you can do aconvincing thing, a case with a
smaller scenario, a smaller kindof project, where you can prove
the value of that project andyour proposal very quickly, in
(26:09):
order that you can thencollaborate in a bigger way,
gather more resources, maybe tapinto more grants or bigger
grants, and then take yourmessage further.
Right right and what was some ofthe on your journey to, you
know, becoming a strong andvalued part of the community and
(26:32):
in making that transition as amigrant, what was some of the
beliefs or, you know,conditioning or values maybe
that you have carried for a longtime, that you had to overcome
or you had to change, or didanything at all become something
that you needed to work throughbecause you are now in a
(26:53):
different environment and adifferent culture?
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Well, I would say it was hard being lonely when I was
tapping into those spaces, butthen I also spent quite some
time not doing anything about it.
And then I came another rareperson facing the similar
situation and finding it hardand feeling lonely and not doing
(27:21):
anything about it and I waslike, okay, okay, now I need to
choose my heart.
If I just ignore it and say,okay, this will pass, that
another person will have to facethe same heart too, if I just
step into those unknown zones tofind the answer, that will make
(27:42):
another person's life easierwho otherwise will have to face
that hard.
Then, knowing that that I couldhave done something about it
and not do, anything about it.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
I was not happy to go that hard so it sounds to me
like you're very much drivenwhen you are linked to something
higher and beyond yourself,when you realize that there are
other people who are going to beimpacted if you don't do
anything and stay comfortable.
So therefore, your choice ofheart has the other people in
(28:18):
mind.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Yes, that's right.
It's actually true, for I wouldsay, any of the change makers,
when they, when they have theireyes on a bigger purpose, it it
just keeps them driven towardsachieving something.
You might not get there always,but at least you halfway there
(28:41):
is is also a success, and thennext oncoming person can take
from there and start, but atleast you can show progress and
start changing people's beliefsthat this isn't something we
cannot do anything about.
It was always like this, sojust go on with it kind of
mindset.
So we just kind of, you know,keep going one step forward at a
(29:05):
time.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
One step forward at a time until you get to where you
want to be.
Now, because this is the QuietWarrior podcast, I need to ask
you what is your take on being aquiet warrior?
What makes someone a warrior?
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Hmm, I would say the quiet warrior is someone who is
who is not giving up because thethings are not working at that
point in time and quietly stillfighting to to achieve that goal
.
Whatever they set their eyes to, if it works that's wonderful,
(29:45):
but if it doesn't work, thequiet people definitely have a
strategy of looking inwards.
And then this is the strengththat they have of looking
inwards, which they can use totheir advantage and quickly
probably use their strategy,change their strategy and and
(30:08):
use it to give another go from,maybe at a different time when
it feels right, or doing it adifferent way that can give them
different results.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
And what would your advice be for any girls and
women listening who arecontemplating switching or
entering STEM as a career?
Speaker 2 (30:34):
I would say go for it .
This is actually a lot morewonderful than I expected when I
even started.
I think I started studyingengineering because of being
maybe stubborn, as you would say, because I had a few doctors
around.
I was the two choices.
There were some doctors but noengineers.
And imagine me being a girldeciding to be the engineer.
(30:56):
I was like, no, it's not forgirls.
You can be if you're a boy.
But especially after COVID, whatI've noticed these are the
people who are actually able todo like similar careers as mine,
who are very quickly able toswitch to those um stay at home
(31:16):
workforce, as compared to thecarer roles, where you are a
teacher or a nurse or a doctor,you have to be in person.
You you need to see the peopleand see the students, although
now now it is telehealth and allthose virtual classrooms.
But the engineering side ofthings, the stem side of things,
pretty quickly moved on to um.
(31:39):
You know the online workenvironment, probably because
Probably because we were doingpretty much lots of work on our
machines.
Anyway, there's a laptopconnected to another server or
another machine somewheresomewhere in the world and it
was very easy to move that to aremote workforce kind of things,
and especially women now whoare having.
(32:01):
You know, I had to have asignificant career break because
I wanted to stay home with mykids.
It would have been a lot easierif I was having young kids now,
where you can stay at home anddo your work still and you don't
have to go to office five daysa week and do nine to five.
You know corporate roles, whichis now I.
(32:25):
Now I think it's even moreeasier.
It is a breeze.
I don't know the challenges now, I'm just maybe making a broad
assumption, but it was a lotharder back then where you
definitely have to be there nineto five full time, no option of
flexible working.
So it is going to be reallyhelpful for young girls and
(32:45):
women who are in thosecaregiving roles where they're
supposed to be physicallypresent and then continue doing
the kind of work in STEMworkforce that you can manage
remotely.
So, yeah, exciting time in thefuture.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
That is the good news that we needed jawaria.
Now.
If there is someone who wantsto reach out to you, maybe
collaborate or ask somethingmore about what you do, how
would they contact you?
Speaker 2 (33:14):
um, I think I'm pretty regular on linkedin, so
that's a good way.
So just send a requestconnection and we'll have a
conversation, always open for itand collaboration and if you
have any big ideas let's do itBeautiful.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Those are the words we want to hear.
So thank you very much, jawaria, for coming on the Quiet
Warrior podcast today, and ifyou have listened to this and
found our conversation helpfuland it's inspired you, I would
love for you to this and foundour conversation helpful and
it's inspired you.
I would love for you to rateand review the Quiet Warrior
podcast so that more introvertsand quiet achievers can access
this podcast and realize thatthey can become the quiet
(33:54):
warriors that are already insidethemselves.
So see you on the next episode.
I'm so grateful that you'rehere today.
If you found this contentvaluable, please share it on
your social media channels andsubscribe to the show on your
favorite listening platform.
Together, we can help moreintroverts thrive.
(34:15):
To receive more upliftingcontent like this, connect with
me on Instagram at Serena LoQuiet Warrior Coach.
Thank you for sharing your timeand your energy with me.
See you on the next episode.
Hi, I'm Serena Loh.
If you're used to hearing thatintroverts are shy, anxious,
antisocial and lack goodcommunication and leadership
skills, then this podcast is foryou.
You're about to fall in lovewith the calm, introspective and
profound person that you are.
Discover what's fun, unique andpowerful about being an
(00:22):
introvert, and how to make theelegant transition from quiet
achiever to quiet warrior inyour life and work anytime you
want, in more ways than youimagined possible.
Welcome, Welcome to anotherepisode of the Quiet Warrior
podcast.
Today I'm speaking with JawariaMahmood from Perth in Western
(00:45):
Australia, and I'm particularlyfascinated, Jawaria, by your
story and by what you'recurrently doing in the community
.
So welcome to the Quiet Warriorpodcast.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Hi Serena, thank you so much for having me.
It's.
It just came by surpriselooking at the name and I was
like what will will I add toyour podcast?
So I'm really looking forwardto contributing.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Jawaria, I first came across your story in the
Professional Migrant WomenNetwork book, which was launched
maybe two years ago now.
I think it's called Undefeatedand it has over a hundred
stories of how professionalmigrant women have adjusted to
life in Australia, the obstacleswe've overcome, and I know you
(01:29):
contributed two stories there.
So could you share with us someof your background and your
story and your journey of comingto Australia?
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Yeah, that's right, I think you were there too.
We are co-authors forUndefeated.
So hello, fellow.
So my background I was born inPakistan.
There I studied engineeringbecause, as you know, the Asian
parents only give you an optionof becoming a doctor or an
engineer.
So after finishing my studies,I worked in government and
(02:04):
corporate sectors in executiveroles.
So yeah, Very cool.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
And what was it like for you being a migrant woman in
Australia?
The whole thing about startingover, about being disconnected
from culture.
How did you retain yourheritage and how did you keep
your identity strong?
Speaker 2 (02:28):
yeah, great question.
Well, the journey for me wasfull of struggles.
Career-wise.
I was told that I have to startfrom scratch.
It was harder because I had awell-established life from the
worldly perspective, and byworldly perspective I mean on
the outside.
I had a house and a car and astable job, but I felt like
(02:54):
there are not many opportunitiesfor growth.
So I just took on the challengeto move this far away, and for
that I have to leave the supportbehind of my trusted friends
and colleagues.
And on top of that there wasfinancial hardship, which comes
(03:14):
as, coming from a third worldcountry, I would say because of
the currency rates.
No matter how much big pile ofmoney you come with, it just
immediately gets slashed down toa fraction.
And it was also complex for mebecause I came as a family, so I
couldn't save money andcompromise by living in a dodgy
(03:37):
accommodation.
Speaking English was not aproblem for me, so I got a bit
lucky there.
But then there was a verydifferent culture and way of
life that I had to adjust to andI kind of felt the disconnect,
not exactly for me but for mydaughter where, thinking that
(03:59):
she won't be able to have thesame cultural experiences that I
I had, and I won't be able topass on any of the traditions
that I grew up with.
So this is, this is what thiswas my thought process at that
point in time.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
I think what you, what you just said there, is
very important, because when weare in our home country,
sometimes we may take thoseaspects for granted.
Because when we are in our homecountry, sometimes we may take
those aspects for grantedbecause we are immersed in them
all day long.
They are there, we don't haveto worry about them, we know who
we are and we are with ourpeople.
But as soon as you step acrossinto a new country where the
(04:40):
culture is very different andyou are trying to process all
these differences at the sametime, trying to feel secure in
who you are and trying toremember who you are, and then
also having children, and thenbeing a parent and looking at it
from that angle, it becomesmuch more urgent and vital to do
(05:07):
something.
So what was the something thatyou decided to do?
Speaker 2 (05:11):
um, well, I had a career break to raise my
children, primarily becausethere was no family support here
and I was apparently startingfrom scratch.
So I'd rather spend a littlebit time with my kids and start
from scratch a few years later,kind of situation.
So I had kind of all the timeon earth to facilitate their
(05:32):
learning and growth and we wereused to go to like multiple
activities during the week Sensereplay, swimming, gymnastics,
rhyme time.
We did lots of arts and craftsand one of them was the story
time in the library.
I was used to attend thatweekly story time, uh, which
sometimes had themes as well.
(05:54):
They were used to read booksabout moms around mother's day
and a dream time story aroundNAIDOC week and so on and so
forth, and one of the themes isaround Harmony Week, where we
celebrate the diversity ofcultures that we have in
Australia.
(06:15):
So the session was pretty muchthe same, which started on the
day with a few formal statementsthat this is Harmony Week and
how it is a safe place toembrace different cultures and
we have the freedom to practiceour religion, and then they took
out a book in English, as everyother week, and started reading
(06:38):
it, as they did always, whichdidn't sit right with me.
So after the session I walkedup to the person and said there
are so many other languages andcultures in the world If you
have ever considered reading abook in a different language for
this week and that persondidn't know much about how it
(07:00):
was even possible.
But she just told me about thenext person who I can talk to.
So I kind of navigated my wayon.
You know how we can make ithappen.
So then I was able to talk toyou know the person who was able
to make the decisions on it,and we did all the relevant
(07:21):
paperwork which and then we kindof mapped out the whole, how
the whole session will be run,which was, um, very similar to
how the regular sessions wererun, and I also provided them
sentence by sentence translationto make it inclusive for the
people who don't understand urdu, because it was a walk-in kind
(07:43):
of session in a public library.
Urdu because it was a walk-inkind of session in a public
library.
And I also kind of tied in thewhole story with a craft
activity to tie in some of theSTEM principles.
And then we went from there.
Now I have delivered the storytime sessions in multiple
libraries around multiple citycouncils.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
So yeah, that crazy idea in the beginning proved
very successful that is anincredible, crazy idea that just
started out from you wantingyour daughter to experience her
own culture and from there manymore children get to listen to
other languages besides English,which then opens their minds
(08:27):
and opens their hearts to beingable to connect better when they
have a classmate from adifferent culture at school.
It gives them something to talkabout, it gives them a way to
be curious.
Maybe they might recognize orremember a word or two here and
there, and that gets themexcited about learning.
And I know what it's like, andI'm sure you do too, when you
(08:48):
hear someone else from adifferent culture making an
attempt to speak your languageor greet you or say hello or
something.
It just makes you feel so seenand so special, doesn't it?
Yes, that's right.
Right.
So this initiative, how far hasit spread now?
Has it gone beyond Perth?
Speaker 2 (09:11):
um, like I mentioned the story time, I did it in
Purdue, like getting feedbackfrom the people who attended,
which was always wonderful.
So I kind of started advocatingbased on more, not just the
research but also like theground reality.
Yes, we know it helps familiesfeel connected and the kids
(09:32):
become more resilient.
But then to show that there isan appetite from the community
for this kind of sessions andthen they want more of them.
This is from where I grew mysessions to the point where I'm
now part of the project, whereI'm like collating my knowledge
and experience, uh, deliveringthese sessions which will help
(09:56):
facilitate similar sessions inany language.
And then we got we got evenfunding to execute that as part
of the family literacy grantsprogram from better beginnings.
So it's, it's going to be long.
Now the information will beaccessible like nationwide and
not just limited to Utu language.
(10:16):
If there is any parent who isas passionate as me but speaking
a different language, they willhave somewhere to start.
I'm kind of leaving a legacybehind.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
You are.
Indeed, you are quite thetrailblazer and pioneer, and
very proactive, I think, intaking an idea that you believe
strongly in and then executingon it with the help of other
people.
So there's a lot of differentskills and traits that I see
there that I really want toacknowledge you for, and to
(10:50):
circle back and switch gears alittle bit, you talked about
STEM and you started off as anengineer.
How are you bringing your STEMexpertise into the community now
, because I know that you do alot of work in the community,
especially in the cold cultures.
How is that working out?
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Well, it's working out in two ways.
I am contributing voluntarilyfor two organizations in their
committee, so I'm part ofEngineers Australia.
For a few years now we're partof the D&I committee, which is
helping engineers integrate wellinto the relevant workforce and
(11:34):
not staying those survival jobs.
So there was a big research.
The economic benefits are there.
It is for the employeeswell-being as well and the
employers get benefit from fromthe diversity of thought that
comes as part of having, youknow, migrant workforce.
That is for adults primarily,but for students.
(11:58):
I am kind of creating thesupport that I had missing when
I was studying, which is kind ofopening eyes of those young
girls about the careers that arearound STEM.
I was the only one in my familyand the broader community who
(12:22):
studied engineering and Ithought it's it's only because I
was in pakistan.
But when I came here I foundout that the challenges were
were very similar and there arecertain assumptions about some
careers, like for engineering,it is just usually believed it's
not for girls, becauseengineers work on site and
(12:43):
they're wearing hard hat andsteel cap, boots etc.
And and I never did it as partof my career in pakistan, so I
knew that I I can educate peopleabout it.
And it was also kind of killingthe spark for the girls who
perhaps wanting to stem in, get,get into stem careers but they
(13:05):
were told, um, that they're moresuitable for caregiving roles,
like teachers and nurses, sokind of breaking those
stereotypes.
So we just introduce all thoseinteresting careers around and
women come and speak to younggirls and all those women that I
get a chance to speak to whocome as role models are the ones
who said that well, I still hadto deal with all these kind of
(13:28):
assumptions when someone becamea supercomputer engineer and
there was a woman who was doingresearch on turtles, so all
these kind of things.
It just even fascinates me atmy age.
So it really shines light ineyes of all those young girls
(13:49):
who are fascinated by howinteresting these STEM careers
can be.
They don't have to be boringall the time.
And my own initiative is whereI'm delivering cyber education
workshops for school childrenfor communities.
Workshops for school childrenfor communities, how they are
(14:11):
kind of targeted by cybercriminals and there's
exponential growth of you knowrate in which they are getting
scammed, in australia especially.
So kind of educating them onhow they can protect themselves,
what are the risks involved.
And yeah, this is where it cameacross, because the information
is changing pretty rapidly.
What happens in cyber is youlearn to tackle a situation one
(14:33):
way and then there is anotherway to exploit you.
Um, so I was.
I was just recently talking tosomeone where um previously, I
was used to tell parents how toprotect their kids online is you
block certain explicit words inyour settings and you know when
(14:54):
your children are connected totheir devices, they'll not be
able to access it.
It will get blocked.
But what happened over time isyou know, the people found a way
, like a maybe, to access thosechildren.
Still Now they're playing thoseonline games where there are
chat rooms, so children have anaccess, like not children have
(15:15):
an access, but strangers have anaccess to our children while
they are in those chat rooms andplaying a game.
So there is interesting that aball of noodles is used as an
emoji to send it to the people.
And I was talking to a fewparents and say do you know what
(15:36):
that actually means?
And I just created a poll aboutit too, and I think 15 people
voted and 14 said they don'tknow.
People voted and 14 said theydon't know, um, and that the
people who said that they knowwhat it is, I was like did you
just find out?
Because because I asked aboutit, or did you know it
previously?
So noodles is pretty much.
You know the team's way of uh,shortening the things is become
(15:58):
like, if you, if you say it in acool way, it's become nudes and
that n-double-o-d-l-e-s kind ofgoes, goes to nudes,
n-double-o-d-s, but it actuallymeans n-u-d-e-s, which is kind
of asking them for thosepictures, which is I would block
(16:21):
the word maybe, and it won'tstill really work because it was
just an emoji sent to the child, which means the whole thing.
So, yeah, there's lots that weare doing, but then these people
are finding back doors too it'scrazy out there on how they are
(16:41):
approaching the children and weneed to just educate our
children about the risks thatare involved in how to protect
themselves.
And the big part of what I do inmy workshops is the reporting,
so where you can report, if any,any incident and similar that
(17:03):
comes as a scam or a cyber crime, because you can stay quiet
about it and try to hide it.
And I know it's a bitembarrassing.
I do understand when kids don'twant to accept that they made a
mistake and they feel likethey'll get in trouble if they
tell their parents.
So they try to hide it, but Ijust tell them every time that
(17:26):
please report because someoneneeds to know before we can do
something about it.
So I was actually speaking toanother teenager that I know
what it means and he was likewhy do you know?
Why do you need to know?
And I was like I need to knowso I can tell you how to be safe
online and I can educate otherpeople.
So, yeah, it's interesting outthere educating those young
(17:51):
people and it's a bit scary aswell.
I don't know what the peopleare coming up with next and I'm
like kind of chasing to updatemy knowledge.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Well, you've made me very nervous now and I probably
need to go check with mychildren what they think a bowl
of noodles means, and I'm hopingthey will tell me it's the
late-night snack they have whenthey're hungry and they're
playing computer games, andnothing more than that.
I'm quite happy with that.
But I'm thinking also, jawaria,it's not just as a parent.
(18:25):
Yes, I am extremely concernedand I'm finding that it's so
hard to keep up with all thiswhen there's so many other
pressing commitments to attendto, and you know, I don't know
how many parents are so savvy orso aware that there are all
these aspects to look at, and itgets harder as the children get
older.
(18:45):
I wonder if there is also asituation where we are having to
do the same for our parents,who also struggle to keep up
with technological changes andscams and all sorts of other
things that go on online, andthen we're also having to help
them navigate that.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
There are some government initiatives where
they're providing this kind ofinformation, but I cannot
comment on how much the reach ofthose programs is.
Otherwise, yeah, there'sprivate providers who are doing
it in collaboration, you know,in collaboration with different
(19:26):
agencies.
I work with somenot-for-profits where I go and
speak to their audience.
So there they are women who arefrom migrant backgrounds.
There's some some women who arein the job seeker groups, and
agencies are like facilitatingthem.
So these women are like really,really vulnerable because they
are and they are targeted inthat way where they kind of
(19:48):
promise the job and then theyare asked for money and you know
, when someone is in thatdesperate situation, they just
fall for this kind of scam.
So I just go and talk to themabout that.
This is not how employment worksin Australia.
It might be different in yourcountries where you come from.
So, yeah, different, differentcommunity groups, countries
where you come from.
Um, so, yeah, different,different community groups that
(20:08):
I'm working with and thenaddressing different aspects of
what they need to know and howthey can protect themselves
online.
And again, yeah, the reportingaspect is I'm pretty big on it.
I don't scare people, but Ijust tell them.
You need to tell someone sothey can come and protect you
too.
It's pretty much more of theeducation and awareness side of
things, um.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
So yeah, hopefully the message will spread across
I'm sure it will spread withtime and especially after this
podcast interview goes out andpeople become even more aware.
I'm thinking from the point ofview of being a migrant, being a
woman, being of a differentculture, maybe not speaking the
(20:55):
language of the country that youmove to.
There would be a lot ofbarriers for someone who is new
to the community.
What kind of support networksor what should they know about
when they first come to a newcountry, let's say, when they
come to Australia?
What should they be consciousof and what should they start
(21:17):
making an effort to do in orderthat they can integrate in a
healthy and positive way intothe new community?
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Well, the very first thing I would say would be
because I've been a migrantmyself and the early few weeks
and months is pretty much whenyou're on your own and not
really have a network to kind ofdiscuss this is what happened
and what should I do about it.
But I would always say trustyour intuition.
If it sounds too good to betrue, probably double check and
(21:53):
try to look for maybe dots thatconnect and you'll find
information that just falls offplace, that it seems off.
So, yeah, it is harder forreally newcomers where they're
not provided all thatinformation directly.
They are in survival modeanyway.
(22:14):
Uh, sorting out their, maybe.
If they are coming as refugees,so the trauma services that are
really vital at that point intime, and looking for a job, so
the income they have, a steadyincome for that you know, you
know bills are pretty big here,um, and if they're coming from,
(22:34):
like I would say, countrieswhich which are not having that
much stable economy, sosurviving here becomes their,
like, primary objective, andwhich is then exploited by all
these cyber criminals, I wouldsay so I would still say, start
looking for maybe information ifthis, again, this is where the
(22:58):
reporting thing comes in play aswell, because when it is
reported now, it just comes onone forum or the other in online
groups where they mention thatthis is something happening
recently or something new.
That pops up pretty much like Iput the noodles thing in there
in a fun way that certain, justlike this one, certain emojis
(23:26):
and certain, uh, combination ofwords are used for a meaning
which is not as innocent looking.
Um, so it is pretty much.
If you, if you look it uponline, probably you'll find
some information.
It is just as how easilyaccessible those resources are.
I'll get there when I you know,take it to the bigger level and
(23:50):
make it a national campaign,like I did for my bilingual
story time, but at the momentI'm doing as best as I can.
Yeah, this is the only thing Ican point to at this point in
time.
We'll just do maybe a quickGoogle to verify.
Is it possible?
Is this how we look for jobs inAustralia, where you have to
(24:10):
pay the money, or is it notnormal and similar things?
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Yeah, Thank you.
So because you are so heavilyinvolved in advocacy work, I
want to ask you what makessomeone a good advocate.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Well, that's a big one.
I would say persistence, andwhat helped me was I started
where I was and I didn't.
I had plans to make the biggerimpact, but I knew that I have
to do it in a smaller settingand prove my point to be able to
(24:56):
grow bigger.
So I would say you choose whathardship you are ready to bear
and then again, that makes youfeel brave as well.
When you know again reportingcomes there when you know how
(25:18):
people are suffering as a resultof when they are getting
scammed, you become a lot morepassionate about okay, I need to
tell about 10 different scamsthat are happening at this point
in time to 10 different groupsand set it as my personal target
and go from there.
So, yeah, this is how I kind ofroll and this is how I get my
strength from, because I'mconnected to really grassroots
(25:41):
communities and I can see theimpact straight away.
It just keeps me motivated.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
So what I heard you say was to start where you are
and ensure that you can do aconvincing thing, a case with a
smaller scenario, a smaller kindof project, where you can prove
the value of that project andyour proposal very quickly, in
(26:09):
order that you can thencollaborate in a bigger way,
gather more resources, maybe tapinto more grants or bigger
grants, and then take yourmessage further.
Right right and what was some ofthe on your journey to, you
know, becoming a strong andvalued part of the community and
(26:32):
in making that transition as amigrant, what was some of the
beliefs or, you know,conditioning or values maybe
that you have carried for a longtime, that you had to overcome
or you had to change, or didanything at all become something
that you needed to work throughbecause you are now in a
(26:53):
different environment and adifferent culture?
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Well, I would say it was hard being lonely when I was
tapping into those spaces, butthen I also spent quite some
time not doing anything about it.
And then I came another rareperson facing the similar
situation and finding it hardand feeling lonely and not doing
(27:21):
anything about it and I waslike, okay, okay, now I need to
choose my heart.
If I just ignore it and say,okay, this will pass, that
another person will have to facethe same heart too, if I just
step into those unknown zones tofind the answer, that will make
(27:42):
another person's life easierwho otherwise will have to face
that hard.
Then, knowing that that I couldhave done something about it
and not do, anything about it.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
I was not happy to go that hard so it sounds to me
like you're very much drivenwhen you are linked to something
higher and beyond yourself,when you realize that there are
other people who are going to beimpacted if you don't do
anything and stay comfortable.
So therefore, your choice ofheart has the other people in
(28:18):
mind.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Yes, that's right.
It's actually true, for I wouldsay, any of the change makers,
when they, when they have theireyes on a bigger purpose, it it
just keeps them driven towardsachieving something.
You might not get there always,but at least you halfway there
(28:41):
is is also a success, and thennext oncoming person can take
from there and start, but atleast you can show progress and
start changing people's beliefsthat this isn't something we
cannot do anything about.
It was always like this, sojust go on with it kind of
mindset.
So we just kind of, you know,keep going one step forward at a
(29:05):
time.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
One step forward at a time until you get to where you
want to be.
Now, because this is the QuietWarrior podcast, I need to ask
you what is your take on being aquiet warrior?
What makes someone a warrior?
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Hmm, I would say the quiet warrior is someone who is
who is not giving up because thethings are not working at that
point in time and quietly stillfighting to to achieve that goal
.
Whatever they set their eyes to, if it works that's wonderful,
(29:45):
but if it doesn't work, thequiet people definitely have a
strategy of looking inwards.
And then this is the strengththat they have of looking
inwards, which they can use totheir advantage and quickly
probably use their strategy,change their strategy and and
(30:08):
use it to give another go from,maybe at a different time when
it feels right, or doing it adifferent way that can give them
different results.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
And what would your advice be for any girls and
women listening who arecontemplating switching or
entering STEM as a career?
Speaker 2 (30:34):
I would say go for it .
This is actually a lot morewonderful than I expected when I
even started.
I think I started studyingengineering because of being
maybe stubborn, as you would say, because I had a few doctors
around.
I was the two choices.
There were some doctors but noengineers.
And imagine me being a girldeciding to be the engineer.
(30:56):
I was like, no, it's not forgirls.
You can be if you're a boy.
But especially after COVID, whatI've noticed these are the
people who are actually able todo like similar careers as mine,
who are very quickly able toswitch to those um stay at home
(31:16):
workforce, as compared to thecarer roles, where you are a
teacher or a nurse or a doctor,you have to be in person.
You you need to see the peopleand see the students, although
now now it is telehealth and allthose virtual classrooms.
But the engineering side ofthings, the stem side of things,
pretty quickly moved on to um.
(31:39):
You know the online workenvironment, probably because
Probably because we were doingpretty much lots of work on our
machines.
Anyway, there's a laptopconnected to another server or
another machine somewheresomewhere in the world and it
was very easy to move that to aremote workforce kind of things,
and especially women now whoare having.
(32:01):
You know, I had to have asignificant career break because
I wanted to stay home with mykids.
It would have been a lot easierif I was having young kids now,
where you can stay at home anddo your work still and you don't
have to go to office five daysa week and do nine to five.
You know corporate roles, whichis now I.
(32:25):
Now I think it's even moreeasier.
It is a breeze.
I don't know the challenges now, I'm just maybe making a broad
assumption, but it was a lotharder back then where you
definitely have to be there nineto five full time, no option of
flexible working.
So it is going to be reallyhelpful for young girls and
(32:45):
women who are in thosecaregiving roles where they're
supposed to be physicallypresent and then continue doing
the kind of work in STEMworkforce that you can manage
remotely.
So, yeah, exciting time in thefuture.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
That is the good news that we needed jawaria.
Now.
If there is someone who wantsto reach out to you, maybe
collaborate or ask somethingmore about what you do, how
would they contact you?
Speaker 2 (33:14):
um, I think I'm pretty regular on linkedin, so
that's a good way.
So just send a requestconnection and we'll have a
conversation, always open for itand collaboration and if you
have any big ideas let's do itBeautiful.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Those are the words we want to hear.
So thank you very much, jawaria, for coming on the Quiet
Warrior podcast today, and ifyou have listened to this and
found our conversation helpfuland it's inspired you, I would
love for you to this and foundour conversation helpful and
it's inspired you.
I would love for you to rateand review the Quiet Warrior
podcast so that more introvertsand quiet achievers can access
this podcast and realize thatthey can become the quiet
(33:54):
warriors that are already insidethemselves.
So see you on the next episode.
I'm so grateful that you'rehere today.
If you found this contentvaluable, please share it on
your social media channels andsubscribe to the show on your
favorite listening platform.
Together, we can help moreintroverts thrive.
(34:15):
To receive more upliftingcontent like this, connect with
me on Instagram at Serena LoQuiet Warrior Coach.
Thank you for sharing your timeand your energy with me.
See you on the next episode.
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