March 9, 2025 • 47 mins
Meet Dr. Chloe Lim—a molecular biologist turned entrepreneur, educator, and balloon artist. Chloe shares how pursuing an academic career in biomedical science led her to discovering a passion for creativity and entrepreneurship.
We discuss the challenges of imposter syndrome, redefining success, and embracing unexpected career pivots. We also dive into how parents can nurture curiosity and an interest in the sciences in children (even if they don’t have a STEM background), the power of self-reflection, and how micro steps can help us build confidence in the face of fear.
If you've ever felt that creativity is only for people who are naturally artistic, or that creativity and logic cannot co-exist, this episode is for you.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
✅ How Chloe transitioned from being a scientist to a creative entrepreneur
✅ The power of self-reflection and defining success on your own terms
✅ Why curiosity is key—and how parents can encourage it in their children
✅ How to push past imposter syndrome and stay in your own lane
✅ The importance of growth mindset, adaptability, and resourcefulness in career shifts
✅ Chloe’s experience on Blow Up, an Australian reality TV show for balloon artists
Guest Bio:
Dr. Chloe Lim is a molecular biologist, regulatory scientist, and entrepreneur who combines her love of science with creativity. She’s the founder of Giggly Wiggly Balloons, where she uses balloon art to inspire and educate. She also hosts CALD Voices in STEM, a podcast that highlights culturally and linguistically diverse women who are breaking barriers and making their mark in the fields of science, technology, engineering, and mathematics.
Connect with Dr. Chloe Lim:
Dr. Chloe Lim’s website
Giggly Wiggly Balloons
Twistyfic
CALD Voices in STEM Podcast
What Makes You Unique book
Instagram | LinkedIn
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This episode was edited by Aura House Productions
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, I'm Serena Loh.
If you're used to hearing thatintroverts are shy, anxious,
antisocial and lack goodcommunication and leadership
skills, then this podcast is foryou.
You're about to fall in lovewith the calm, introspective and
profound person that you are.
Discover what's fun, unique andpowerful about being an
(00:22):
introvert, and how to make theelegant transition from quiet
achiever to quiet warrior inyour life and work anytime you
want, in more ways than youimagined possible.
Welcome.
Welcome to another episode ofthe Quiet Warrior podcast.
Today, we have as our guestspeaker a molecular biologist
(00:46):
turned entrepreneur, educatorand balloon artist who is
passionate about usingcreativity to inspire and make a
difference.
Welcome, Dr Chloe Lim, to theQuiet Warrior podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Hi Serena.
Thank you so much for having metoday.
I'm really excited to sharewith your listeners a little bit
about myself and, yeah,anything else that you could ask
me about.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Thank you so much, chloe, and Happy New Year.
It is the 15th day of the LunarNew Year here as we are
recording this episode, so 恭喜发财to you.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Yes, 恭喜发财 to you and your listeners too, if they
celebrate Chinese New Year.
Yes, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Fatshoy, to you and your listeners too, if they
celebrate Chinese New Year.
So, chloe, tell us a bit aboutyour background.
You know how this all started,this journey of study, becoming
a scientist, becoming a balloonartist, becoming an entrepreneur
.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Oh my gosh, how long do you have on your podcast?
I may look young, but I'mactually quite old, but anyway,
I'm just kidding.
Um, so I'm originally born inMalaysia, so I grew up in Kuala
Lumpur and I'm the eldest offour siblings and my family.
They are mostly back inMalaysia at the moment.
But when I was growing up, oneof the things that really drove
(02:02):
me was my studies.
So I am a confessed nerd.
I love studying and, to add tomy nerdiness, I love studying
science subjects.
So when I was in high school Ireally loved doing physics and
chemistry Biology wasn't so much, interestingly and maths was
(02:24):
really something that reallylight me up as well.
So I did like advanced mathsand pure maths.
And when it came to studying foruniversity or choosing subjects
for university, I was kind oflooking at different options for
how I can help with health,because I had this interest in
how the human body works, helpwith health, because I had this
(02:45):
interest in how the human bodyworks.
And as I looked into it, Iinitially I looked at chemical
engineering.
I'm not sure how I got intochemical engineering, but I
think it was something to dowith maybe how that can make the
body better.
I'm not sure how, but the moreI looked into chemical
engineering, the more I realizedthat it doesn't really study
(03:05):
the body as much.
It's more to do with, perhaps,drug development in the area
that I was interested in.
And so then I did a bit moredigging and I found that, oh,
maybe biomedical science wouldbe another subject that I can
look into.
So I looked into more aboutwhat are the things that you
study as part of a biomedicalscience degree and you know it
(03:27):
covered things like anatomy,physiology, pathology, and I was
like, oh, these are all veryinteresting topics with all the
things that to do with the body,and so I decided to go for a
biomedical science degree.
Now I've come from a backgroundwhere, you know, I know my
parents would not be able toafford for me to study overseas,
and I have this dream ofstudying overseas because back
(03:51):
in Malaysia we have thisperception that overseas
education is more valuable andit's going to be better than the
local education.
And so I decided to work reallyhard so that I can get
scholarships that allowed me tostudy overseas, and thankfully I
did get the grades that Iwanted and I was able to secure
(04:11):
actually two scholarships, oneto study in Australia and the
other to study in New Zealandand I was like, oh, australia,
new Zealand, both really goodchoices.
But I decided to go with NewZealand because a lot of people
that I know were going toAustralia to study.
But I thought, well, maybe I'lldo something a bit different
(04:31):
and go to New Zealand instead,because we don't know what's
happening there.
But it was my first timesitting on a plane leaving the
country, going to a foreigncountry to live and to study,
and it was an interestingjourney for sure, but I truly
enjoyed my time in university.
It was, I think, one of thebest times of learning and
(04:53):
growing.
A lot of challenges there, butfrom there I got lots of
opportunities to actuallydevelop my academic journey as
well.
And so, you know, at the end ofmy second year there was a
summer research scholarshipopportunity to do a research
project in Australia and Iapplied for it and I got the
(05:14):
scholarship.
So I ended up flying toAustralia and did a three-month
summer project looking athypertension and I really
enjoyed it.
And at the end of my third yearI applied for it again and I
got it again the second timeround, and this time round I was
looking at epigenetics, solooking at how markers on the
(05:35):
DNA can impact whether a gene isswitched on or switched off,
and from there I realized that Ireally enjoy doing research,
and so I decided to stay on inAustralia to do an honors.
And from there, um, after myhonors, I actually, uh, did
another summer scholarship, likeI just love finding
(05:56):
scholarships and just applyingfor them.
If I can get my education forfree, I try my best to do that.
But, um, but at the end of that.
But at the end of that summerresearch project, unfortunately
I couldn't stay on in Australiabecause I didn't have the visa
that allowed me to do so,because I was still on an
international student visa and Iwasn't able to find, you know,
(06:18):
an employer-sponsored visa, andso I had to leave the country
and go back to Malaysia.
So when I went back to Malaysia, I looked for jobs in Malaysia
itself and also in Singapore,and at the same time I was also
applying for my PhD scholarshiptoo, because I was hoping to
come back to Australia to do aPhD.
Now, in the meantime, while allof that's happening, I got a
(06:40):
job in Singapore as a researchassistant.
So I moved to Singapore and Iworked at the National
Neuroscience Institute and I waslooking at brain tumors in mice
, and so we were looking at howwe can actually treat tumor
cells in the brain using mouseas a model for studying it.
(07:02):
Now I guess my time inSingapore was cut short because
I got a scholarship offer to domy PhD at the Australian
National University, so I leftSingapore and then it is like a
full circle Now I'm back inAustralia, so back in Australia
to do my PhD, and I was able tostay on to do a postdoc and
(07:27):
throw in a couple of maternityleaves in there as well while I
was having children, and then Ibecame a research fellow as well
, and I also had the opportunityto work with a biotech startup
company that my supervisor wasdeveloping and I worked as a
clinical trials coordinator andwhat I did was to run a phase
(07:49):
one clinical trial in metastaticbreast cancer patients and we
were coordinating a multi-centertrial to test a novel
epigenetic drug to see how itcan impact cancer cells in the
body.
Now that was quite a few yearsago, and now I've actually moved
into government, so I'm aregulatory scientist working for
(08:10):
the Department of Health andAged Care at the moment and
really a public servant at heart, but I also have all these
other businesses that I run onthe side, so we might keep that
for another time and anotherquestion, I think.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Wow, that is some bio .
One thing I wanted to ask youwas you know, in your choice of
the science path, how much ofthis was influenced by parental
decision making?
And I asked this on behalf ofthose of us who grew up in Asian
backgrounds where parents'opinions are very important.
And, you know, maybe thecurrent generation doesn't face
the same challenge.
I do remember that, you know,at that time it was pretty much
(08:54):
like you either go to medicineor you become a lawyer, and you
know the options were a veryrarefied few.
So how did you come to choosethe science path?
Was there already a precedentin your family for that?
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Interestingly, my parents actually never dictated
what I should do.
In fact, they gave all of usall me and my siblings free
reign as to what we want to dofor our careers, and what they
did was really to support us inevery step of the way.
I remember my mom I can'tremember when was this, but she
(09:30):
actually helped me submit anapplication and I remember her
actually having to go somewherequite far away and then staying
overnight just to help me withthat, and so I'm very blessed.
My parents are just supportivein whatever it is that we decide
to do.
But I do understand that thereare cultural expectations around
(09:52):
career choices, and I haveinterviewed quite a few people
or have a chat with quite a fewpeople who come from
particularly, I think, fromIndia.
There's quite a fewexpectations in terms of the
career choices, like you'reeither an engineer or you're a
doctor or a lawyer, or perhapsan accountant maybe, but you
(10:15):
have the top few choices andthen, depending on how you go,
you end up with whichever.
But it's interesting, I guess.
I think even in all that we doas part of growing up, there is
that huge influence from ourparents in terms of what we
believe, what we can do what weshould be doing, how we are to
(10:38):
carry ourselves, and so I thinkit's so important for parents to
be aware of the sort ofexpectations they are putting on
their children and whetherthose expectations are realistic
and whether they are inalignment with actually what
your children's passions andinterests are.
(11:00):
So for me I mean, I think,reflecting back, because I'm a
parent myself as well I havethree children.
You know, my son is 10 and Ihave twin girls who are eight,
so they're all still in primaryschool, but that is actually a
very important time becausethey're very impressionable
about what they can be doing forthe future at this point in
time.
Me, I think what is importantto me is to be able to see and
(11:23):
identify where they're actuallygood at, what their strengths
are, and to focus on helpingthem develop those strengths.
And let them try differentthings as well, because you
never know what sort of thingsthat you'll find unless you try
it as well, right, and so givingthem that support to help them
develop those strengths, it aswell, right, and so giving them
(11:45):
that support to help themdevelop those strengths and then
seeing where it takes them fromthere.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
I think it's really providing that guidance and
support that really helpschildren to grow and bloom
academically and also as aperson as a person, from a
(12:11):
parent's point of view, I wouldimagine that a lot of parents
would tend to go with thosesubject areas that they
themselves are familiar with,that they have strengths in, and
let's say, the STEM subjectsare not their natural strengths.
How would they then encouragetheir children to develop an
interest in science, in maths,if they themselves don't have
(12:31):
that experience?
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Yeah, that's a good question because I mean, I think
my children good thing, badthing, I don't know but because
both me and my husband were bothscientists, so they I don't
know but because both me and myhusband we're both scientists,
so they are completely exposedto science and they have no
choice because we do envelopthem in the scientific thinking
(12:55):
process.
But I think if a person doesn'thave that background, that
doesn't necessarily stop youfrom exposing your children to
science.
There are a lot of greatavenues out there to introduce
science to children.
So lots of great books.
There's also like apps andshows that are catered to really
encouraging STEM in children.
(13:16):
There are STEM kits that youcan buy.
There's, you know, lots ofmuseums and shows that you can
take your children to as well.
So so you know, you're notshort of the resources that you
can use, but understanding, youknow, being a parent is already
quite overwhelming.
I mean, there's lots ofactivities that you have to take
your kids to and we are alsoquite time poor, and so I think
(13:37):
a good way to help develop thatscientific thinking in children
is to incorporate that into youreveryday life.
So you know, we are actuallysurrounded by science all the
time.
Everything that we're doing,everything that we're using,
requires that science to be ableto build it up to that product
or to that you know, to thatthing or how it works and all
(14:01):
the different processes that wesee you know in our everyday
life how it works and all thedifferent processes that we see
you know in our everyday life.
And so one of the ways that aparent can sort of develop that
STEM or science awareness intheir children is really to
observe and ask questions.
So helping the children to seewhat's happening, asking them
questions, helping them todevelop that curiosity within
(14:24):
them to understand how thingswork.
I think that really helps tobring that science into everyday
life.
And the main thing for mereally is to instill that love
for curiosity and also to askquestions.
So curiosity, linking it withasking questions, and I think in
the end, I think that's goingto set them up for later as well
(14:47):
as an adult too, becauseideally we want to be developing
a generation of curiousthinkers and also scientific
thinkers, people who are notjust going to take any
information in without checkingthe evidence.
So really developing thatevidence-based thinking in
(15:12):
people so that then they canapply it as part of their
day-to-day living.
Wow.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
That requires a lot more self-reflection,
self-awareness in parents, Ithink, because, like you rightly
pointed out, we are time poor,we are distracted, we are
multitasking all the time, atthat level of being, that
(15:48):
hands-on, that switched on, thatself-aware to be finding those
teachable moments all the time.
So I think it first comes backto ourselves practicing that
curiosity, that observation,which means we ourselves have to
slow down enough to actuallynotice our environment, pay,
know, pay attention to leavesfalling or birds, or, you know,
just enjoying nature.
(16:09):
You know, being away from ourdevices or being fully present
for, let's say, five minuteseven, and taking ourselves into
that kind of space where we canthen slow down and match where
our children are at, instead of,you know that, constantly a
barrage of thoughts going on inour heads, what to do next.
You know, what should I bedoing?
Am I doing this right?
(16:31):
Am I doing this well enough?
All the other, you know,internal chatter has to be muted
down sufficiently to createthat space to have those sorts
of conversations with ourchildren, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (16:44):
to create that space to have those sorts of
conversations with our children,isn't it?
Yeah, and I think we've hit agreat point about
self-reflection and awareness,and the challenge is that we
have to be intentional aboutthese things.
It is not something that's justgoing to happen, you know,
without you thinking about it,right, and so I think that
that's a really critical thingthat I don't think we have been
(17:07):
taught, like there's no manualfor parenting, unfortunately.
We're all learning on the go andon the job, um, but, but to
help people realize that, youknow, just taking that five
minutes, like you say, I thinkit doesn't need to be a long
time, that five minutes to juststop what you're doing.
You know, at the of the day,once the kids are in bed and you
(17:29):
can have a moment to yourselfto really reflect on the day, I
think I mean I have aself-reflection practice and a
journaling practice where, atthe end of the day, I'll think
about oh, what was good abouttoday and what are the things
that could have been done a bitbetter, and how then can I
(17:49):
improve it for next time?
And as part of being a goodleader in the family, because
parents are leaders in thefamily.
We are a leader for ourchildren and part of being a
good leader is actuallyreflecting on having a
(18:10):
reflective practice, becausethat's when you can actually
notice things and then takeaction to fix things or improve
things as part of yourreflection.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
I agree with you there, the importance of a
reflective practice, and I thinkthe more hectic and chaotic the
environment and the times we'rein, the more important it is to
pull back, consciously andintentionally, to slow down, to
make space for ourselves,because in the process we're
also modeling it for ourchildren, because they are
watching us all the time.
(18:41):
They are watching us all thetime and they are unconsciously
absorbing these patterns thatthey see their parents playing
out, and of course, that becomespart of their way of expressing
themselves in the world too.
And so my next question to youthen how did you move from being
a scientist to then embracingbusiness and entrepreneurship?
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Sure yeah, it's an.
It's a good question because,you know, I never thought of
myself as an entrepreneur or,you know, a businesswoman in
that sense.
When I was in my academiccareer.
It was very focused.
I was like, okay, this is whatI need to do to climb the ladder
in science.
But the turning point wasactually when I came back from
(19:29):
maternity leave with my twingirls and when I came back to
work, my supervisor told me thatmy hours were being reduced.
So I was really part-time, butthey have to reduce my part-time
hours even more.
And it was at that point intime that I realized that I
cannot depend on my job for myincome.
And so that was when I decided,okay, I need to do something
(19:52):
for myself.
I decided, okay, maybe I canstart a business.
Now, at that point in time Ididn't really, I guess I didn't
really have ideas of how I couldstart a business.
Now I did have a friend who wasselling skincare, and you know
what was it like supplements andthings.
I thought, oh, maybe I canlearn from her and started that.
(20:13):
But you know, it got to a pointwhere, you know, it's not
really something that I reallyenjoy, like I love, I love using
skincare, I don't mind using,you know makeup and stuff, but
I'm not I'm not that passionateabout selling it, and the one
thing I've learned aboutbusiness is that you do have to
be passionate passionate aboutwhat it and the one thing I've
learned about business is thatyou do have to be passionate
about what it is you're doing.
(20:34):
What is it you're serving, howyou're serving people and what
is the service or product thatyou're offering.
And so you know it came to apoint where I decided I need to
revisit what I'm doing.
Like this is not something Ienjoy doing.
And somehow, you know, about sixyears ago now you know, I
actually got I stumbled intoballoon twisting, and how that
(20:58):
came about was my pastor waslooking for someone to twist
balloons at a community churchevent, and no one put their
hands up, and so I thought maybeI'll give it a go.
So I went to Kmart, bought apack of balloons and I went on
YouTube as you do when you wantto learn something new, and
learned how to make a balloondog, and I was like, oh, this is
(21:20):
actually quite interesting,it's quite fun.
And so I kept going looking forother videos, looking for other
designs to learn and, beforeyou knew it, I got hooked and I
found so much joy and fun inmaking balloons and I thought,
oh, maybe I can make this into abusiness.
And so that was when GigglyWiggly Balloons was born.
(21:42):
I started a side hustletwisting balloons at parties,
but it sort of grew intosomething even bigger than I can
imagine like.
It's led me to lots of amazingopportunities, you know, to work
with um, big organizations likeyou know, national gallery of
australia, and I've also gone ontv for this as well.
(22:03):
So I was on a blow up um, whichis a reality tv show by channel
seven.
You can still catch it on 7Plus, by the way, but it was
crazy.
I guess.
You know, when you do somethingthat you enjoy and I think you
know, it sort of just grows andbecause of that passion that you
(22:25):
have for that you know, forthat topic or for that hobby or
for that you know skill orstrength or whatever it is you
find that the more you do it,the more you grow as a person in
terms of developing your skillsand the more opportunities
present itself as well.
And I think you can see whensomeone is passionate about a
(22:48):
specific topic and you can'thelp but to really be immersed
or be engaged or just want to bepart of that passion right,
because it's actually quiteinfectious, I think, when
someone is really passionateabout that topic.
And so I think I'm reallyblessed with how I was able to
(23:09):
take that balloon twisting andbuild it into something beyond
what I can imagine, and then toalso have it lead me to tying it
with STEM as well, because, aspart of me developing myself as
a balloon performer, so I doballoon storytelling shows for
children, using classicstorytales like Three Little
(23:31):
Pigs to get children involved inputting on a show.
I've actually merged my love ofscience and balloons to create
science storytelling shows aswell, so using balloons as a
tool of engagement for childrenand to help them understand.
You know abstract concepts likeDNA in a science show, and so
(23:54):
you never know what's going tohappen.
I guess, as you progress inyour interest, that you start
developing new ideas andcreating new things that other
people may not have done.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
I think the moment you appeared and became this
scientist, who is also a balloonartist, it made me think how is
it that no one has come up withthis concept before?
Because it's brilliant.
And I saw a picture of you withyour DNA balloon.
It's so intricate.
Maybe if I had seen a DNAballoon when I was little, I
(24:29):
might have decided to like STEMsubjects much more, instead of
seeing them as this mystifyingthing, like a foreign language
that I cannot access.
But I do want to ask you aboutthis journey of figuring things
out, of going by one path yourplan A, your linear path and
then shifting, pivoting intosomething you didn't expect to
(24:54):
do.
But then you've pursued it outof your own passion, your own
enthusiasm, which, as you say,is infectious, is contagious in
a very good way, because peoplecan't help but be drawn into
that energy, because it's a verypositive and uplifting kind of
energy that shows people what'spossible, and we all have that
inside us.
There's a part of us that lovesthat excitement being the
(25:16):
explorer.
Perhaps it takes us back to ourchildhood, where anything was
possible.
So I remember reading yourLinkedIn Rewind either end of
the year or start of this year,where you were quoted as saying
after your blow up tv show, mybiggest competitor was myself,
my mindset and beliefs.
(25:37):
What held me back was me, notwhat anyone said or did, and I
would love you to speak moreabout that, because I think all
of us are very much have momentswhere we feel held back by what
other people have said to us,other people have done, and we
have this, um, perhaps a patternof externalizing and looking at
(26:01):
the outward environment asbeing responsible for how we are
.
So if we don't achievesomething, or it's because you
know the economy is difficult,or people are not supportive, or
I'm not well-connected enough,but what you're saying is what
held me back was me, and to methat is a radical way of taking
self-responsibility.
Could you talk to us more aboutthat?
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Yeah, I think a lot of these things come from our
parents, our environment, thesort of programming, the mental
programming that we've beeninstilled since we were young,
that we are not good enough.
And I think that is thechallenge.
(26:43):
That was my main challenge thatI had to overcome.
I always felt that I didn'tlive up to a certain standard or
a certain expectation, be itsomething that's said by my
parents, perhaps, but I mean,like I said, my parents actually
did actually have thatexpectation for me.
So it's actually I think it's aself-inflicted expectation, but
(27:06):
also, I think I mean not onlyjust self-inflicted.
I think sometimes we alsocompare ourselves with other
people's successes andachievements.
We feel like or we think thatyou know, this is what success
looks like and this is how weshould be living and what we
should be aiming for.
And cultural expectation ofwhat success is supposed to be
(27:30):
is so loud Because everyone issort of advertising or parading
their success and we feel thatneed to match that or overcome
that or achieve even more.
But I think what was importantto me as I grew older and
learned more about myself is Ihave to determine what success
(27:53):
means for me, and it may not bethe same as what the society or
the cultural expectations ofsuccess are.
But it's okay, because I definewhat is success, and I think
that is the challenge that a lotof people are facing is they
feel that they are notsuccessful enough, but the
(28:16):
problem is because they haven'tactually defined success for
themselves, and so I think whenI realized that you know, this
is what success means to me, andso these are the goals that I
then want to achieve and it madeit so much easier for me to
accept me for who I am and tounderstand what is it that I
(28:38):
bring to the table, what are myskills, what are my strengths
and how then I can utilize themin a way that helps me fulfill
my goals and dreams that I felta lot more freedom around that.
Now for me to then overcomethat we've got all this
programming of not being goodenough, all these things about
(29:03):
not being good enough.
Essentially, I think that's thechallenge we have here.
So that limiting belief issomething that I had to overcome
every step of the way, becauseyou know we're going against the
grain, we're going against whateveryone else around us thinks
should be success, and so I hadto sort of really go internally
(29:26):
a lot and to remind myself whatare the things that I'm good at,
what are my goals, and to justfocus on that, so it becomes
more of a personal reflection aswell.
Exercise and to really haveblinders, in a sense, just like
(29:48):
the horses the race horses theyhave blinders, so that you're
just focused on what is it thatis important to you, what is it
that aligns with your values andhow then you can just keep
going for that end goal.
You know at the end of the raceyou have that I cannot think of
it right now, mind blank.
(30:09):
But you know you have your ownrace to run of it right now,
mind blank, but you know youhave your own race to run I
think, that's what I'm trying tosay.
Yes, yeah, you have your ownrace to run, and so you have to
focus on your race and forgetabout what everyone else is
doing on the side.
And and so you know, for me, um, you know, if you bring it back
to that blow upup TV show, Igot to a point in that
(30:30):
particular episode where I wasjust comparing myself and
comparing my balloon creationwith everyone else's on that day
, and the negative chatter thatwas happening in my head was
just like, oh my gosh, why am Ihere?
(30:51):
I don't feel like I deserve toeven be on the show.
I was just, you know, threeyears into doing balloon art and
I'm surrounded by expertswho've been doing this for, you
know, over 10 to 20 years and,and it was at a point where it
was quite far into thecompetition, we had to create a
(31:13):
balloon creation that was innature.
The team was into the wild andI decided I'll create the
metamorphosis of the butterflybecause I thought it was such to
be.
It was such a great example ofbiology as well and a great
(31:35):
example of, you know, the changethat we have to go through as a
person.
But it took me a long time toeven create the plant.
And so I had this, this plantwith four leaves.
And then, when I looked around,I can see someone with a giant
lion head, someone who created,you know, a pine forest with a
(31:57):
waterfall and then a massivebamboo forest with beautiful
pandas in the forest, and I waslike, oh my gosh, I have a small
plant with four leaves.
And that was when, you know,the negative self-talk really
kicked in, really thinking aboutwhat, like, what am I doing
(32:20):
here?
You know, I cannot compete withthese people who's making big
sculptures.
And I think it's at that pointwhere you realize that you know
you cannot let this negativechatter overcome what your
vision is.
So I had a vision of thisbeautiful butterfly.
(32:42):
We've got a caterpillar whichchanges into a chrysalis, and
then you've got the beautifulcaterpillar emerging, and so
that was my vision for the piece, and I had to forget about what
everyone else is doing aroundme but focus on what it is that
I do best.
(33:03):
I love adding details to mysculptures, and so these are all
the details that's going to gointo my sculpture, and I had to
really shut that negativechatter down by focusing on what
I do best and to focus on thatgoal what is the vision that I
have for this piece and to justpush through and execute that
(33:26):
vision.
And so a lot of times, I think,when we come across something
that we are really interested in, that we really want to do, it
could be a goal, a hidden goalor hidden passion.
Sometimes it's a matter of justpushing yourself through it,
(33:49):
even though it's hard, eventhough it might not be the norm,
and just going for it, and thenyou never know what's going to
happen at the end of it anyway.
But I think we tend to haveregrets of things that we have
not done rather than regrets ofthings that we have done.
So for me, my philosophy is youknow, just do it.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Like Nike says, and that is the spirit of the
adventurer and the explorer,because that's what we need to
get started on the quest, isn'tit?
I think every one of us faces aquest or crossroads of some
kind at some point in our lives,but then the question is do I
go forward?
Do I just stay still and justcarry on with my comfortable
(34:35):
path and the path of safety andfamiliarity?
Do I go into this trail thatI've never explored and I don't
know what's ahead of me?
There might be a wilderness andno signposts at all, and I
don't know what I'm doing inthere.
I might be lost for years, and Ithink it's that fear of what we
have to go through as well aswhat's on the other side.
So what kept you going in thosetimes when I'm sure there must
(35:01):
have been moments where, as yousay, the imposter syndrome got
really loud, and so you said youpushed through that by learning
to do the hard things.
What else has been helpful foryou in figuring things out as
you go?
Because I imagine that you knowdoing what you do, which is
curating and creating your ownpathway, not only of success,
(35:21):
but a very unique kind of careerthat nobody else has, and
you've put it together andfigured things out along the way
.
How do people learn to becomfortable?
Be more comfortable withfiguring things out as they go.
Be comfortable.
Be more comfortable withfiguring things out as they go.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Yeah, no, the fear of trying something new is very
real, especially since you knowwe are so afraid of what people
will think, what people will say.
You know there's, and if youfail at something, people might
think and that kind of justbrings up that you're not enough
enough, you're not good enougheven more that voice.
(36:01):
But I think what's important,uh, when it comes to overcoming
these fears, is to getcomfortable with being
uncomfortable so you could takemicro steps.
I think that's always veryimportant, just taking small
steps to push yourself out ofyour comfort zone every single
(36:25):
day.
And the more you do it, themore you get used to taking
risks and the more you get usedto putting yourselves in
situations where you've neverbeen before, and I think that's
a sort of progression that Ihave done in my life as well.
I am one to generally say yesto things that I've not tried
(36:48):
before.
I mean, I decided to go to NewZealand instead of Australia
when everyone's going toAustralia, and I think it's that
curiosity that drives me to trysomething new as well.
I guess the other thing I'llmention is I think that courage
to try something new alsodevelops over time and also
(37:10):
develops with the actions thatyou take.
So the more action you take,the more experience you get, the
more confident you become indoing that thing.
So if you think about publicspeaking, for example, you know
a lot of people are afraid ofspeaking in public.
I mean, I was too, and thefirst time I did it was when I
(37:31):
was in high school.
I just remember holding a pieceof paper and I was just shaking
and my voice was shaking aswell.
Piece of paper and I was justshaking and my voice was shaking
as well.
But with public speaking, Ijust had to keep pushing myself
to do it, even if it felt souncomfortable.
I was still nervous.
But then we have to channelthat nervousness into excitement
(37:57):
instead.
So I think it's a mindset thingagain, right, it's switching
that mindset to thinking that,oh, I am not good enough, why am
I doing this?
I am so thankful that I get todo this, I'm so thankful that
this opportunity has presenteditself to me and I am going to
do my best to present this sothat I can serve people the best
that I can.
And so it's that mindset shiftthat I think it's so important,
(38:20):
when opportunities present toyou, that you go for the
empowering mindset rather thanthe diminishing mindset.
And I think the other mindsetthat I like to pull in here is
also the idea of growth mindset,that you can master anything
with learning and effort, asopposed to the fixed mindset,
thinking that you can't learnnew things.
(38:41):
So really adopting that growthmindset is really important in
overcoming fears in trying newthings, and you never know what
will happen when you trysomething new.
You might meet someonedifferent, or you might meet
someone new, find a newconnection, or you might find a
(39:02):
new path in your career whoknows?
So I am always a huge proponentof trying new things and because
I think I see it in my own lifeas well, with the balloon
business, just because I triedballoon twisting, I now have the
balloon business.
Like, just because I triedballoon twisting, I now, you
know, have a balloon business.
So I think you never knowwhat's going to happen, and I
(39:24):
think people have to be open tochanges or pivots that happen in
your life.
You know we have this grandplan.
Sometimes you know this 5, 10,25 year plan even of how life is
supposed to be like, but Ithink it's also important to
leave space or room for theunexpected.
Sometimes opportunities mightcome and it will take you on a
(39:48):
different path, and I think it'simportant to develop that
resilience and also thatadaptability, to then know that
you have the resources or youcan find the resources that can
help you move into differentdirections.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
Thank you so much for that very elaborate, very
detailed summary of all thetraits that we need to inculcate
and cultivate for ourselves,for our children.
I think the first one youmentioned was putting on those
blinders, especially when youhave imposter syndrome, being
very loud in your ear andtelling you all those negative
(40:29):
messages about how you're notgood enough and other people are
better.
We need to be able to shut outthat voice and we need to be
able to focus our eyes on ourown path.
As you said, stick to our ownlane and remember what the goal
was initially.
What's the reason that we arein this situation, doing this
challenging thing?
What is it we wanted toaccomplish?
(40:49):
And then focus fully on that.
And also you said micro stepsas your strategy to learn to be
comfortable with beinguncomfortable, and that is
something I practice as well.
The idea of being 1% betterevery day.
I find that much moremanageable micro steps than
trying to attempt a massivetransformation in a very short
(41:11):
period of time.
And then you said also the ideaof pushing yourself out of your
comfort zone every day, doinghard things, and it reminds me
of the athlete mindset that, um,we spoke about with a different
guest on a previous episode,the idea of disciplining
ourselves like an athlete.
Every day we show up, we dohard things and then, over time,
(41:34):
the hard things become easier,they become normal things that
we do.
That are just part of what wedo.
And you said curiosity andself-reflection, which we talked
about at the start of thisconversation as well inculcating
that for ourselves as parents,as adults, so that we can also
model that for our children, andthe courage to try something
(41:55):
new.
But the part that really stoodout for me is the language,
which I think is very powerfulwhen you reframe something from
the diminishing mindset to anempowering mindset, because
diminishing makes us smaller.
Empowering makes us stand upstraight.
You know, it changes ourposture, it changes the way we
speak, it enables us to take upmore space, just the way we
(42:20):
speak.
It enables us to take up morespace.
And what you said was I'm sothankful that I get to do this,
and you also said I'm doing mybest to serve people.
I will do my best to do thisthing well and serve people as
well.
So I think there are someelements there that are
important.
First of all, it's the languagethat I get to do this, which,
to me, speaks of gratitude forthe tremendous privilege, the
(42:42):
opportunity and the blessingthat has been given to us, which
then makes us feel right.
This is not just about me.
I'm part of the bigger picture.
I'm here to do this for thegood of everyone who is watching
or who is bystanding, who iswatching or who is bystanding,
and so, therefore, I need to domy best, and I need to do it in
service of people, not just inservice of myself or my own
(43:05):
agenda.
And I think when we think alongthose sorts of lines, when it's
much more about the biggerpicture and the greater good
than it is our soul good, itbecomes easier, I feel, to let
down the guard, to mute theimposter syndrome, to focus on
our own lane and our ownstrengths and really allow
(43:26):
ourselves to shine.
So thank you for that reminderand also being open to pivots,
to be adaptable, to beresourceful, and I like that you
pointed out that there was adifference about having the
resources versus beingresourceful in looking for those
resources, because I think thesecond one is much more
important.
We may not always have what weneed in the moment, but we can
(43:49):
trust ourselves that we can findthose things that we need and
maybe the connections that weneed too.
And so you mentioned also thatthe other two kinds of mindset
the growth mindset, which isthat I can learn anything, which
I think is so important, notjust whether it's STEM subjects
and, you know, doing wellacademically, but, I think, in
all areas of life, becausethings are changing so quickly,
(44:12):
technology is advancing sorapidly, sometimes we feel like
we've been left far behind andthis is too hard, I can't learn
this stuff.
But then you're saying I canlearn anything and if I start
off with that kind of a mindset,then I will be more likely to
persist and to get there usingmicro steps, versus the fixed
mindset of oh you know, I'm notgood at, I'm good at humanities,
(44:33):
I'm not good at sciences, soyou know this, this is beyond me
, this stuff is beyond me, it'stoo hard and not good at
sciences.
So you know, this is beyond me,this stuff is beyond me, it's
too hard.
And that sort of puts a fullstop to everything, because then
I have no reason, noinclination to go any further
with it.
It's the end of the chapter andwhat you're saying is actually
we don't know what the nextchapter is, we don't know what's
around the corner.
It's very much up to us tocreate that story, to write the
(44:56):
next chapter, to keep that storygoing, but we really don't know
what lies around the corner,which is exciting, but of course
, it inspires fear in some otherpeople too.
But then, when we learn totrust ourselves more and be more
reflective and more resourceful, then I think we discover that
we are actually just like theadventurers, the explorers that
(45:19):
we were when we were children.
And I also want to mention thatyou do have your own podcast,
chloe.
Do you want to tell us aboutthat?
Speaker 2 (45:29):
Yeah, of course.
Yeah, so I have a podcastcalled Child Voices in STEM and
in this podcast I interviewculturally diverse women in STEM
and highlight their stories,their challenges, some of the
achievements as well as part ofworking in a STEM career.
So I have this is season twonow.
(45:53):
So season one I have peoplefrom all over Australia sharing
their stories and with seasontwo, I've been very fortunate to
get the YWCA Canberra YDS grantto fund this season two, and in
season two I focus on Canberrawomen in STEM.
So looking locally and, youknow, finding amazing women in
(46:16):
Canberra who are doing amazingscience and showcasing their
stories.
So I'd love for your listenersto check that podcast out as
well.
It's on Apple and Spotify and,yeah, definitely drop the link
as well for the podcast so youcan all check it out Fantastic
and listeners.
Speaker 1 (46:34):
if you have a daughter, a niece, a
granddaughter, someone who isinterested in STEM, very curious
about this, you know becoming ascientist and having great
dreams and ambitions of doingsomething amazing in the world
someday, make sure that you getonto Chloe's podcast so that you
can learn more.
So thank you so much, chloe,for joining us today on the
Quiet Warrior podcast.
You have been such a generousand detailed sharer of your
(46:59):
wisdom and of yourentrepreneurial path and we've
learned a lot from you.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
Thank you so much, Serena, for having me.
I really appreciate this.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (47:09):
And that was another episode of the Quiet Warrior
podcast.
If you've enjoyed thisconversation with Dr Chloe Lim,
make sure you check out herpodcast called Voices in STEM
and also rate and review thisepisode.
I'll see you on the next one.
I'm so grateful that you'rehere today.
If you found this contentvaluable, please share it on
(47:30):
your social media channels andsubscribe to the show on your
favorite listening platform.
Together, we can help moreintroverts thrive.
To receive more upliftingcontent like this, connect with
me on Instagram at Serena LuQuiet Warrior Coach.
Thank you for sharing your timeand your energy with me.
See you on the next episode.
Hi, I'm Serena Loh.
If you're used to hearing thatintroverts are shy, anxious,
antisocial and lack goodcommunication and leadership
skills, then this podcast is foryou.
You're about to fall in lovewith the calm, introspective and
profound person that you are.
Discover what's fun, unique andpowerful about being an
(00:22):
introvert, and how to make theelegant transition from quiet
achiever to quiet warrior inyour life and work anytime you
want, in more ways than youimagined possible.
Welcome.
Welcome to another episode ofthe Quiet Warrior podcast.
Today, we have as our guestspeaker a molecular biologist
(00:46):
turned entrepreneur, educatorand balloon artist who is
passionate about usingcreativity to inspire and make a
difference.
Welcome, Dr Chloe Lim, to theQuiet Warrior podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Hi Serena.
Thank you so much for having metoday.
I'm really excited to sharewith your listeners a little bit
about myself and, yeah,anything else that you could ask
me about.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Thank you so much, chloe, and Happy New Year.
It is the 15th day of the LunarNew Year here as we are
recording this episode, so 恭喜发财to you.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Yes, 恭喜发财 to you and your listeners too, if they
celebrate Chinese New Year.
Yes, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Fatshoy, to you and your listeners too, if they
celebrate Chinese New Year.
So, chloe, tell us a bit aboutyour background.
You know how this all started,this journey of study, becoming
a scientist, becoming a balloonartist, becoming an entrepreneur
.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Oh my gosh, how long do you have on your podcast?
I may look young, but I'mactually quite old, but anyway,
I'm just kidding.
Um, so I'm originally born inMalaysia, so I grew up in Kuala
Lumpur and I'm the eldest offour siblings and my family.
They are mostly back inMalaysia at the moment.
But when I was growing up, oneof the things that really drove
(02:02):
me was my studies.
So I am a confessed nerd.
I love studying and, to add tomy nerdiness, I love studying
science subjects.
So when I was in high school Ireally loved doing physics and
chemistry Biology wasn't so much, interestingly and maths was
(02:24):
really something that reallylight me up as well.
So I did like advanced mathsand pure maths.
And when it came to studying foruniversity or choosing subjects
for university, I was kind oflooking at different options for
how I can help with health,because I had this interest in
how the human body works, helpwith health, because I had this
(02:45):
interest in how the human bodyworks.
And as I looked into it, Iinitially I looked at chemical
engineering.
I'm not sure how I got intochemical engineering, but I
think it was something to dowith maybe how that can make the
body better.
I'm not sure how, but the moreI looked into chemical
engineering, the more I realizedthat it doesn't really study
(03:05):
the body as much.
It's more to do with, perhaps,drug development in the area
that I was interested in.
And so then I did a bit moredigging and I found that, oh,
maybe biomedical science wouldbe another subject that I can
look into.
So I looked into more aboutwhat are the things that you
study as part of a biomedicalscience degree and you know it
(03:27):
covered things like anatomy,physiology, pathology, and I was
like, oh, these are all veryinteresting topics with all the
things that to do with the body,and so I decided to go for a
biomedical science degree.
Now I've come from a backgroundwhere, you know, I know my
parents would not be able toafford for me to study overseas,
and I have this dream ofstudying overseas because back
(03:51):
in Malaysia we have thisperception that overseas
education is more valuable andit's going to be better than the
local education.
And so I decided to work reallyhard so that I can get
scholarships that allowed me tostudy overseas, and thankfully I
did get the grades that Iwanted and I was able to secure
(04:11):
actually two scholarships, oneto study in Australia and the
other to study in New Zealandand I was like, oh, australia,
new Zealand, both really goodchoices.
But I decided to go with NewZealand because a lot of people
that I know were going toAustralia to study.
But I thought, well, maybe I'lldo something a bit different
(04:31):
and go to New Zealand instead,because we don't know what's
happening there.
But it was my first timesitting on a plane leaving the
country, going to a foreigncountry to live and to study,
and it was an interestingjourney for sure, but I truly
enjoyed my time in university.
It was, I think, one of thebest times of learning and
(04:53):
growing.
A lot of challenges there, butfrom there I got lots of
opportunities to actuallydevelop my academic journey as
well.
And so, you know, at the end ofmy second year there was a
summer research scholarshipopportunity to do a research
project in Australia and Iapplied for it and I got the
(05:14):
scholarship.
So I ended up flying toAustralia and did a three-month
summer project looking athypertension and I really
enjoyed it.
And at the end of my third yearI applied for it again and I
got it again the second timeround, and this time round I was
looking at epigenetics, solooking at how markers on the
(05:35):
DNA can impact whether a gene isswitched on or switched off,
and from there I realized that Ireally enjoy doing research,
and so I decided to stay on inAustralia to do an honors.
And from there, um, after myhonors, I actually, uh, did
another summer scholarship, likeI just love finding
(05:56):
scholarships and just applyingfor them.
If I can get my education forfree, I try my best to do that.
But, um, but at the end of that.
But at the end of that summerresearch project, unfortunately
I couldn't stay on in Australiabecause I didn't have the visa
that allowed me to do so,because I was still on an
international student visa and Iwasn't able to find, you know,
(06:18):
an employer-sponsored visa, andso I had to leave the country
and go back to Malaysia.
So when I went back to Malaysia, I looked for jobs in Malaysia
itself and also in Singapore,and at the same time I was also
applying for my PhD scholarshiptoo, because I was hoping to
come back to Australia to do aPhD.
Now, in the meantime, while allof that's happening, I got a
(06:40):
job in Singapore as a researchassistant.
So I moved to Singapore and Iworked at the National
Neuroscience Institute and I waslooking at brain tumors in mice
, and so we were looking at howwe can actually treat tumor
cells in the brain using mouseas a model for studying it.
(07:02):
Now I guess my time inSingapore was cut short because
I got a scholarship offer to domy PhD at the Australian
National University, so I leftSingapore and then it is like a
full circle Now I'm back inAustralia, so back in Australia
to do my PhD, and I was able tostay on to do a postdoc and
(07:27):
throw in a couple of maternityleaves in there as well while I
was having children, and then Ibecame a research fellow as well
, and I also had the opportunityto work with a biotech startup
company that my supervisor wasdeveloping and I worked as a
clinical trials coordinator andwhat I did was to run a phase
(07:49):
one clinical trial in metastaticbreast cancer patients and we
were coordinating a multi-centertrial to test a novel
epigenetic drug to see how itcan impact cancer cells in the
body.
Now that was quite a few yearsago, and now I've actually moved
into government, so I'm aregulatory scientist working for
(08:10):
the Department of Health andAged Care at the moment and
really a public servant at heart, but I also have all these
other businesses that I run onthe side, so we might keep that
for another time and anotherquestion, I think.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Wow, that is some bio .
One thing I wanted to ask youwas you know, in your choice of
the science path, how much ofthis was influenced by parental
decision making?
And I asked this on behalf ofthose of us who grew up in Asian
backgrounds where parents'opinions are very important.
And, you know, maybe thecurrent generation doesn't face
the same challenge.
I do remember that, you know,at that time it was pretty much
(08:54):
like you either go to medicineor you become a lawyer, and you
know the options were a veryrarefied few.
So how did you come to choosethe science path?
Was there already a precedentin your family for that?
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Interestingly, my parents actually never dictated
what I should do.
In fact, they gave all of usall me and my siblings free
reign as to what we want to dofor our careers, and what they
did was really to support us inevery step of the way.
I remember my mom I can'tremember when was this, but she
(09:30):
actually helped me submit anapplication and I remember her
actually having to go somewherequite far away and then staying
overnight just to help me withthat, and so I'm very blessed.
My parents are just supportivein whatever it is that we decide
to do.
But I do understand that thereare cultural expectations around
(09:52):
career choices, and I haveinterviewed quite a few people
or have a chat with quite a fewpeople who come from
particularly, I think, fromIndia.
There's quite a fewexpectations in terms of the
career choices, like you'reeither an engineer or you're a
doctor or a lawyer, or perhapsan accountant maybe, but you
(10:15):
have the top few choices andthen, depending on how you go,
you end up with whichever.
But it's interesting, I guess.
I think even in all that we doas part of growing up, there is
that huge influence from ourparents in terms of what we
believe, what we can do what weshould be doing, how we are to
(10:38):
carry ourselves, and so I thinkit's so important for parents to
be aware of the sort ofexpectations they are putting on
their children and whetherthose expectations are realistic
and whether they are inalignment with actually what
your children's passions andinterests are.
(11:00):
So for me I mean, I think,reflecting back, because I'm a
parent myself as well I havethree children.
You know, my son is 10 and Ihave twin girls who are eight,
so they're all still in primaryschool, but that is actually a
very important time becausethey're very impressionable
about what they can be doing forthe future at this point in
time.
Me, I think what is importantto me is to be able to see and
(11:23):
identify where they're actuallygood at, what their strengths
are, and to focus on helpingthem develop those strengths.
And let them try differentthings as well, because you
never know what sort of thingsthat you'll find unless you try
it as well, right, and so givingthem that support to help them
develop those strengths, it aswell, right, and so giving them
(11:45):
that support to help themdevelop those strengths and then
seeing where it takes them fromthere.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
I think it's really providing that guidance and
support that really helpschildren to grow and bloom
academically and also as aperson as a person, from a
(12:11):
parent's point of view, I wouldimagine that a lot of parents
would tend to go with thosesubject areas that they
themselves are familiar with,that they have strengths in, and
let's say, the STEM subjectsare not their natural strengths.
How would they then encouragetheir children to develop an
interest in science, in maths,if they themselves don't have
(12:31):
that experience?
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Yeah, that's a good question because I mean, I think
my children good thing, badthing, I don't know but because
both me and my husband were bothscientists, so they I don't
know but because both me and myhusband we're both scientists,
so they are completely exposedto science and they have no
choice because we do envelopthem in the scientific thinking
(12:55):
process.
But I think if a person doesn'thave that background, that
doesn't necessarily stop youfrom exposing your children to
science.
There are a lot of greatavenues out there to introduce
science to children.
So lots of great books.
There's also like apps andshows that are catered to really
encouraging STEM in children.
(13:16):
There are STEM kits that youcan buy.
There's, you know, lots ofmuseums and shows that you can
take your children to as well.
So so you know, you're notshort of the resources that you
can use, but understanding, youknow, being a parent is already
quite overwhelming.
I mean, there's lots ofactivities that you have to take
your kids to and we are alsoquite time poor, and so I think
(13:37):
a good way to help develop thatscientific thinking in children
is to incorporate that into youreveryday life.
So you know, we are actuallysurrounded by science all the
time.
Everything that we're doing,everything that we're using,
requires that science to be ableto build it up to that product
or to that you know, to thatthing or how it works and all
(14:01):
the different processes that wesee you know in our everyday
life how it works and all thedifferent processes that we see
you know in our everyday life.
And so one of the ways that aparent can sort of develop that
STEM or science awareness intheir children is really to
observe and ask questions.
So helping the children to seewhat's happening, asking them
questions, helping them todevelop that curiosity within
(14:24):
them to understand how thingswork.
I think that really helps tobring that science into everyday
life.
And the main thing for mereally is to instill that love
for curiosity and also to askquestions.
So curiosity, linking it withasking questions, and I think in
the end, I think that's goingto set them up for later as well
(14:47):
as an adult too, becauseideally we want to be developing
a generation of curiousthinkers and also scientific
thinkers, people who are notjust going to take any
information in without checkingthe evidence.
So really developing thatevidence-based thinking in
(15:12):
people so that then they canapply it as part of their
day-to-day living.
Wow.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
That requires a lot more self-reflection,
self-awareness in parents, Ithink, because, like you rightly
pointed out, we are time poor,we are distracted, we are
multitasking all the time, atthat level of being, that
(15:48):
hands-on, that switched on, thatself-aware to be finding those
teachable moments all the time.
So I think it first comes backto ourselves practicing that
curiosity, that observation,which means we ourselves have to
slow down enough to actuallynotice our environment, pay,
know, pay attention to leavesfalling or birds, or, you know,
just enjoying nature.
(16:09):
You know, being away from ourdevices or being fully present
for, let's say, five minuteseven, and taking ourselves into
that kind of space where we canthen slow down and match where
our children are at, instead of,you know that, constantly a
barrage of thoughts going on inour heads, what to do next.
You know, what should I bedoing?
Am I doing this right?
(16:31):
Am I doing this well enough?
All the other, you know,internal chatter has to be muted
down sufficiently to createthat space to have those sorts
of conversations with ourchildren, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (16:44):
to create that space to have those sorts of
conversations with our children,isn't it?
Yeah, and I think we've hit agreat point about
self-reflection and awareness,and the challenge is that we
have to be intentional aboutthese things.
It is not something that's justgoing to happen, you know,
without you thinking about it,right, and so I think that
that's a really critical thingthat I don't think we have been
(17:07):
taught, like there's no manualfor parenting, unfortunately.
We're all learning on the go andon the job, um, but, but to
help people realize that, youknow, just taking that five
minutes, like you say, I thinkit doesn't need to be a long
time, that five minutes to juststop what you're doing.
You know, at the of the day,once the kids are in bed and you
(17:29):
can have a moment to yourselfto really reflect on the day, I
think I mean I have aself-reflection practice and a
journaling practice where, atthe end of the day, I'll think
about oh, what was good abouttoday and what are the things
that could have been done a bitbetter, and how then can I
(17:49):
improve it for next time?
And as part of being a goodleader in the family, because
parents are leaders in thefamily.
We are a leader for ourchildren and part of being a
good leader is actuallyreflecting on having a
(18:10):
reflective practice, becausethat's when you can actually
notice things and then takeaction to fix things or improve
things as part of yourreflection.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
I agree with you there, the importance of a
reflective practice, and I thinkthe more hectic and chaotic the
environment and the times we'rein, the more important it is to
pull back, consciously andintentionally, to slow down, to
make space for ourselves,because in the process we're
also modeling it for ourchildren, because they are
watching us all the time.
(18:41):
They are watching us all thetime and they are unconsciously
absorbing these patterns thatthey see their parents playing
out, and of course, that becomespart of their way of expressing
themselves in the world too.
And so my next question to youthen how did you move from being
a scientist to then embracingbusiness and entrepreneurship?
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Sure yeah, it's an.
It's a good question because,you know, I never thought of
myself as an entrepreneur or,you know, a businesswoman in
that sense.
When I was in my academiccareer.
It was very focused.
I was like, okay, this is whatI need to do to climb the ladder
in science.
But the turning point wasactually when I came back from
(19:29):
maternity leave with my twingirls and when I came back to
work, my supervisor told me thatmy hours were being reduced.
So I was really part-time, butthey have to reduce my part-time
hours even more.
And it was at that point intime that I realized that I
cannot depend on my job for myincome.
And so that was when I decided,okay, I need to do something
(19:52):
for myself.
I decided, okay, maybe I canstart a business.
Now, at that point in time Ididn't really, I guess I didn't
really have ideas of how I couldstart a business.
Now I did have a friend who wasselling skincare, and you know
what was it like supplements andthings.
I thought, oh, maybe I canlearn from her and started that.
(20:13):
But you know, it got to a pointwhere, you know, it's not
really something that I reallyenjoy, like I love, I love using
skincare, I don't mind using,you know makeup and stuff, but
I'm not I'm not that passionateabout selling it, and the one
thing I've learned aboutbusiness is that you do have to
be passionate passionate aboutwhat it and the one thing I've
learned about business is thatyou do have to be passionate
about what it is you're doing.
(20:34):
What is it you're serving, howyou're serving people and what
is the service or product thatyou're offering.
And so you know it came to apoint where I decided I need to
revisit what I'm doing.
Like this is not something Ienjoy doing.
And somehow, you know, about sixyears ago now you know, I
actually got I stumbled intoballoon twisting, and how that
(20:58):
came about was my pastor waslooking for someone to twist
balloons at a community churchevent, and no one put their
hands up, and so I thought maybeI'll give it a go.
So I went to Kmart, bought apack of balloons and I went on
YouTube as you do when you wantto learn something new, and
learned how to make a balloondog, and I was like, oh, this is
(21:20):
actually quite interesting,it's quite fun.
And so I kept going looking forother videos, looking for other
designs to learn and, beforeyou knew it, I got hooked and I
found so much joy and fun inmaking balloons and I thought,
oh, maybe I can make this into abusiness.
And so that was when GigglyWiggly Balloons was born.
(21:42):
I started a side hustletwisting balloons at parties,
but it sort of grew intosomething even bigger than I can
imagine like.
It's led me to lots of amazingopportunities, you know, to work
with um, big organizations likeyou know, national gallery of
australia, and I've also gone ontv for this as well.
(22:03):
So I was on a blow up um, whichis a reality tv show by channel
seven.
You can still catch it on 7Plus, by the way, but it was
crazy.
I guess.
You know, when you do somethingthat you enjoy and I think you
know, it sort of just grows andbecause of that passion that you
(22:25):
have for that you know, forthat topic or for that hobby or
for that you know skill orstrength or whatever it is you
find that the more you do it,the more you grow as a person in
terms of developing your skillsand the more opportunities
present itself as well.
And I think you can see whensomeone is passionate about a
(22:48):
specific topic and you can'thelp but to really be immersed
or be engaged or just want to bepart of that passion right,
because it's actually quiteinfectious, I think, when
someone is really passionateabout that topic.
And so I think I'm reallyblessed with how I was able to
(23:09):
take that balloon twisting andbuild it into something beyond
what I can imagine, and then toalso have it lead me to tying it
with STEM as well, because, aspart of me developing myself as
a balloon performer, so I doballoon storytelling shows for
children, using classicstorytales like Three Little
(23:31):
Pigs to get children involved inputting on a show.
I've actually merged my love ofscience and balloons to create
science storytelling shows aswell, so using balloons as a
tool of engagement for childrenand to help them understand.
You know abstract concepts likeDNA in a science show, and so
(23:54):
you never know what's going tohappen.
I guess, as you progress inyour interest, that you start
developing new ideas andcreating new things that other
people may not have done.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
I think the moment you appeared and became this
scientist, who is also a balloonartist, it made me think how is
it that no one has come up withthis concept before?
Because it's brilliant.
And I saw a picture of you withyour DNA balloon.
It's so intricate.
Maybe if I had seen a DNAballoon when I was little, I
(24:29):
might have decided to like STEMsubjects much more, instead of
seeing them as this mystifyingthing, like a foreign language
that I cannot access.
But I do want to ask you aboutthis journey of figuring things
out, of going by one path yourplan A, your linear path and
then shifting, pivoting intosomething you didn't expect to
(24:54):
do.
But then you've pursued it outof your own passion, your own
enthusiasm, which, as you say,is infectious, is contagious in
a very good way, because peoplecan't help but be drawn into
that energy, because it's a verypositive and uplifting kind of
energy that shows people what'spossible, and we all have that
inside us.
There's a part of us that lovesthat excitement being the
(25:16):
explorer.
Perhaps it takes us back to ourchildhood, where anything was
possible.
So I remember reading yourLinkedIn Rewind either end of
the year or start of this year,where you were quoted as saying
after your blow up tv show, mybiggest competitor was myself,
my mindset and beliefs.
(25:37):
What held me back was me, notwhat anyone said or did, and I
would love you to speak moreabout that, because I think all
of us are very much have momentswhere we feel held back by what
other people have said to us,other people have done, and we
have this, um, perhaps a patternof externalizing and looking at
(26:01):
the outward environment asbeing responsible for how we are
.
So if we don't achievesomething, or it's because you
know the economy is difficult,or people are not supportive, or
I'm not well-connected enough,but what you're saying is what
held me back was me, and to methat is a radical way of taking
self-responsibility.
Could you talk to us more aboutthat?
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Yeah, I think a lot of these things come from our
parents, our environment, thesort of programming, the mental
programming that we've beeninstilled since we were young,
that we are not good enough.
And I think that is thechallenge.
(26:43):
That was my main challenge thatI had to overcome.
I always felt that I didn'tlive up to a certain standard or
a certain expectation, be itsomething that's said by my
parents, perhaps, but I mean,like I said, my parents actually
did actually have thatexpectation for me.
So it's actually I think it's aself-inflicted expectation, but
(27:06):
also, I think I mean not onlyjust self-inflicted.
I think sometimes we alsocompare ourselves with other
people's successes andachievements.
We feel like or we think thatyou know, this is what success
looks like and this is how weshould be living and what we
should be aiming for.
And cultural expectation ofwhat success is supposed to be
(27:30):
is so loud Because everyone issort of advertising or parading
their success and we feel thatneed to match that or overcome
that or achieve even more.
But I think what was importantto me as I grew older and
learned more about myself is Ihave to determine what success
(27:53):
means for me, and it may not bethe same as what the society or
the cultural expectations ofsuccess are.
But it's okay, because I definewhat is success, and I think
that is the challenge that a lotof people are facing is they
feel that they are notsuccessful enough, but the
(28:16):
problem is because they haven'tactually defined success for
themselves, and so I think whenI realized that you know, this
is what success means to me, andso these are the goals that I
then want to achieve and it madeit so much easier for me to
accept me for who I am and tounderstand what is it that I
(28:38):
bring to the table, what are myskills, what are my strengths
and how then I can utilize themin a way that helps me fulfill
my goals and dreams that I felta lot more freedom around that.
Now for me to then overcomethat we've got all this
programming of not being goodenough, all these things about
(29:03):
not being good enough.
Essentially, I think that's thechallenge we have here.
So that limiting belief issomething that I had to overcome
every step of the way, becauseyou know we're going against the
grain, we're going against whateveryone else around us thinks
should be success, and so I hadto sort of really go internally
(29:26):
a lot and to remind myself whatare the things that I'm good at,
what are my goals, and to justfocus on that, so it becomes
more of a personal reflection aswell.
Exercise and to really haveblinders, in a sense, just like
(29:48):
the horses the race horses theyhave blinders, so that you're
just focused on what is it thatis important to you, what is it
that aligns with your values andhow then you can just keep
going for that end goal.
You know at the end of the raceyou have that I cannot think of
it right now, mind blank.
(30:09):
But you know you have your ownrace to run of it right now,
mind blank, but you know youhave your own race to run I
think, that's what I'm trying tosay.
Yes, yeah, you have your ownrace to run, and so you have to
focus on your race and forgetabout what everyone else is
doing on the side.
And and so you know, for me, um, you know, if you bring it back
to that blow upup TV show, Igot to a point in that
(30:30):
particular episode where I wasjust comparing myself and
comparing my balloon creationwith everyone else's on that day
, and the negative chatter thatwas happening in my head was
just like, oh my gosh, why am Ihere?
(30:51):
I don't feel like I deserve toeven be on the show.
I was just, you know, threeyears into doing balloon art and
I'm surrounded by expertswho've been doing this for, you
know, over 10 to 20 years and,and it was at a point where it
was quite far into thecompetition, we had to create a
(31:13):
balloon creation that was innature.
The team was into the wild andI decided I'll create the
metamorphosis of the butterflybecause I thought it was such to
be.
It was such a great example ofbiology as well and a great
(31:35):
example of, you know, the changethat we have to go through as a
person.
But it took me a long time toeven create the plant.
And so I had this, this plantwith four leaves.
And then, when I looked around,I can see someone with a giant
lion head, someone who created,you know, a pine forest with a
(31:57):
waterfall and then a massivebamboo forest with beautiful
pandas in the forest, and I waslike, oh my gosh, I have a small
plant with four leaves.
And that was when, you know,the negative self-talk really
kicked in, really thinking aboutwhat, like, what am I doing
(32:20):
here?
You know, I cannot compete withthese people who's making big
sculptures.
And I think it's at that pointwhere you realize that you know
you cannot let this negativechatter overcome what your
vision is.
So I had a vision of thisbeautiful butterfly.
(32:42):
We've got a caterpillar whichchanges into a chrysalis, and
then you've got the beautifulcaterpillar emerging, and so
that was my vision for the piece, and I had to forget about what
everyone else is doing aroundme but focus on what it is that
I do best.
(33:03):
I love adding details to mysculptures, and so these are all
the details that's going to gointo my sculpture, and I had to
really shut that negativechatter down by focusing on what
I do best and to focus on thatgoal what is the vision that I
have for this piece and to justpush through and execute that
(33:26):
vision.
And so a lot of times, I think,when we come across something
that we are really interested in, that we really want to do, it
could be a goal, a hidden goalor hidden passion.
Sometimes it's a matter of justpushing yourself through it,
(33:49):
even though it's hard, eventhough it might not be the norm,
and just going for it, and thenyou never know what's going to
happen at the end of it anyway.
But I think we tend to haveregrets of things that we have
not done rather than regrets ofthings that we have done.
So for me, my philosophy is youknow, just do it.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Like Nike says, and that is the spirit of the
adventurer and the explorer,because that's what we need to
get started on the quest, isn'tit?
I think every one of us faces aquest or crossroads of some
kind at some point in our lives,but then the question is do I
go forward?
Do I just stay still and justcarry on with my comfortable
(34:35):
path and the path of safety andfamiliarity?
Do I go into this trail thatI've never explored and I don't
know what's ahead of me?
There might be a wilderness andno signposts at all, and I
don't know what I'm doing inthere.
I might be lost for years, and Ithink it's that fear of what we
have to go through as well aswhat's on the other side.
So what kept you going in thosetimes when I'm sure there must
(35:01):
have been moments where, as yousay, the imposter syndrome got
really loud, and so you said youpushed through that by learning
to do the hard things.
What else has been helpful foryou in figuring things out as
you go?
Because I imagine that you knowdoing what you do, which is
curating and creating your ownpathway, not only of success,
(35:21):
but a very unique kind of careerthat nobody else has, and
you've put it together andfigured things out along the way
.
How do people learn to becomfortable?
Be more comfortable withfiguring things out as they go.
Be comfortable.
Be more comfortable withfiguring things out as they go.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Yeah, no, the fear of trying something new is very
real, especially since you knowwe are so afraid of what people
will think, what people will say.
You know there's, and if youfail at something, people might
think and that kind of justbrings up that you're not enough
enough, you're not good enougheven more that voice.
(36:01):
But I think what's important,uh, when it comes to overcoming
these fears, is to getcomfortable with being
uncomfortable so you could takemicro steps.
I think that's always veryimportant, just taking small
steps to push yourself out ofyour comfort zone every single
(36:25):
day.
And the more you do it, themore you get used to taking
risks and the more you get usedto putting yourselves in
situations where you've neverbeen before, and I think that's
a sort of progression that Ihave done in my life as well.
I am one to generally say yesto things that I've not tried
(36:48):
before.
I mean, I decided to go to NewZealand instead of Australia
when everyone's going toAustralia, and I think it's that
curiosity that drives me to trysomething new as well.
I guess the other thing I'llmention is I think that courage
to try something new alsodevelops over time and also
(37:10):
develops with the actions thatyou take.
So the more action you take,the more experience you get, the
more confident you become indoing that thing.
So if you think about publicspeaking, for example, you know
a lot of people are afraid ofspeaking in public.
I mean, I was too, and thefirst time I did it was when I
(37:31):
was in high school.
I just remember holding a pieceof paper and I was just shaking
and my voice was shaking aswell.
Piece of paper and I was justshaking and my voice was shaking
as well.
But with public speaking, Ijust had to keep pushing myself
to do it, even if it felt souncomfortable.
I was still nervous.
But then we have to channelthat nervousness into excitement
(37:57):
instead.
So I think it's a mindset thingagain, right, it's switching
that mindset to thinking that,oh, I am not good enough, why am
I doing this?
I am so thankful that I get todo this, I'm so thankful that
this opportunity has presenteditself to me and I am going to
do my best to present this sothat I can serve people the best
that I can.
And so it's that mindset shiftthat I think it's so important,
(38:20):
when opportunities present toyou, that you go for the
empowering mindset rather thanthe diminishing mindset.
And I think the other mindsetthat I like to pull in here is
also the idea of growth mindset,that you can master anything
with learning and effort, asopposed to the fixed mindset,
thinking that you can't learnnew things.
(38:41):
So really adopting that growthmindset is really important in
overcoming fears in trying newthings, and you never know what
will happen when you trysomething new.
You might meet someonedifferent, or you might meet
someone new, find a newconnection, or you might find a
(39:02):
new path in your career whoknows?
So I am always a huge proponentof trying new things and because
I think I see it in my own lifeas well, with the balloon
business, just because I triedballoon twisting, I now have the
balloon business.
Like, just because I triedballoon twisting, I now, you
know, have a balloon business.
So I think you never knowwhat's going to happen, and I
(39:24):
think people have to be open tochanges or pivots that happen in
your life.
You know we have this grandplan.
Sometimes you know this 5, 10,25 year plan even of how life is
supposed to be like, but Ithink it's also important to
leave space or room for theunexpected.
Sometimes opportunities mightcome and it will take you on a
(39:48):
different path, and I think it'simportant to develop that
resilience and also thatadaptability, to then know that
you have the resources or youcan find the resources that can
help you move into differentdirections.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
Thank you so much for that very elaborate, very
detailed summary of all thetraits that we need to inculcate
and cultivate for ourselves,for our children.
I think the first one youmentioned was putting on those
blinders, especially when youhave imposter syndrome, being
very loud in your ear andtelling you all those negative
(40:29):
messages about how you're notgood enough and other people are
better.
We need to be able to shut outthat voice and we need to be
able to focus our eyes on ourown path.
As you said, stick to our ownlane and remember what the goal
was initially.
What's the reason that we arein this situation, doing this
challenging thing?
What is it we wanted toaccomplish?
(40:49):
And then focus fully on that.
And also you said micro stepsas your strategy to learn to be
comfortable with beinguncomfortable, and that is
something I practice as well.
The idea of being 1% betterevery day.
I find that much moremanageable micro steps than
trying to attempt a massivetransformation in a very short
(41:11):
period of time.
And then you said also the ideaof pushing yourself out of your
comfort zone every day, doinghard things, and it reminds me
of the athlete mindset that, um,we spoke about with a different
guest on a previous episode,the idea of disciplining
ourselves like an athlete.
Every day we show up, we dohard things and then, over time,
(41:34):
the hard things become easier,they become normal things that
we do.
That are just part of what wedo.
And you said curiosity andself-reflection, which we talked
about at the start of thisconversation as well inculcating
that for ourselves as parents,as adults, so that we can also
model that for our children, andthe courage to try something
(41:55):
new.
But the part that really stoodout for me is the language,
which I think is very powerfulwhen you reframe something from
the diminishing mindset to anempowering mindset, because
diminishing makes us smaller.
Empowering makes us stand upstraight.
You know, it changes ourposture, it changes the way we
speak, it enables us to take upmore space, just the way we
(42:20):
speak.
It enables us to take up morespace.
And what you said was I'm sothankful that I get to do this,
and you also said I'm doing mybest to serve people.
I will do my best to do thisthing well and serve people as
well.
So I think there are someelements there that are
important.
First of all, it's the languagethat I get to do this, which,
to me, speaks of gratitude forthe tremendous privilege, the
(42:42):
opportunity and the blessingthat has been given to us, which
then makes us feel right.
This is not just about me.
I'm part of the bigger picture.
I'm here to do this for thegood of everyone who is watching
or who is bystanding, who iswatching or who is bystanding,
and so, therefore, I need to domy best, and I need to do it in
service of people, not just inservice of myself or my own
(43:05):
agenda.
And I think when we think alongthose sorts of lines, when it's
much more about the biggerpicture and the greater good
than it is our soul good, itbecomes easier, I feel, to let
down the guard, to mute theimposter syndrome, to focus on
our own lane and our ownstrengths and really allow
(43:26):
ourselves to shine.
So thank you for that reminderand also being open to pivots,
to be adaptable, to beresourceful, and I like that you
pointed out that there was adifference about having the
resources versus beingresourceful in looking for those
resources, because I think thesecond one is much more
important.
We may not always have what weneed in the moment, but we can
(43:49):
trust ourselves that we can findthose things that we need and
maybe the connections that weneed too.
And so you mentioned also thatthe other two kinds of mindset
the growth mindset, which isthat I can learn anything, which
I think is so important, notjust whether it's STEM subjects
and, you know, doing wellacademically, but, I think, in
all areas of life, becausethings are changing so quickly,
(44:12):
technology is advancing sorapidly, sometimes we feel like
we've been left far behind andthis is too hard, I can't learn
this stuff.
But then you're saying I canlearn anything and if I start
off with that kind of a mindset,then I will be more likely to
persist and to get there usingmicro steps, versus the fixed
mindset of oh you know, I'm notgood at, I'm good at humanities,
(44:33):
I'm not good at sciences, soyou know this, this is beyond me
, this stuff is beyond me, it'stoo hard and not good at
sciences.
So you know, this is beyond me,this stuff is beyond me, it's
too hard.
And that sort of puts a fullstop to everything, because then
I have no reason, noinclination to go any further
with it.
It's the end of the chapter andwhat you're saying is actually
we don't know what the nextchapter is, we don't know what's
around the corner.
It's very much up to us tocreate that story, to write the
(44:56):
next chapter, to keep that storygoing, but we really don't know
what lies around the corner,which is exciting, but of course
, it inspires fear in some otherpeople too.
But then, when we learn totrust ourselves more and be more
reflective and more resourceful, then I think we discover that
we are actually just like theadventurers, the explorers that
(45:19):
we were when we were children.
And I also want to mention thatyou do have your own podcast,
chloe.
Do you want to tell us aboutthat?
Speaker 2 (45:29):
Yeah, of course.
Yeah, so I have a podcastcalled Child Voices in STEM and
in this podcast I interviewculturally diverse women in STEM
and highlight their stories,their challenges, some of the
achievements as well as part ofworking in a STEM career.
So I have this is season twonow.
(45:53):
So season one I have peoplefrom all over Australia sharing
their stories and with seasontwo, I've been very fortunate to
get the YWCA Canberra YDS grantto fund this season two, and in
season two I focus on Canberrawomen in STEM.
So looking locally and, youknow, finding amazing women in
(46:16):
Canberra who are doing amazingscience and showcasing their
stories.
So I'd love for your listenersto check that podcast out as
well.
It's on Apple and Spotify and,yeah, definitely drop the link
as well for the podcast so youcan all check it out Fantastic
and listeners.
Speaker 1 (46:34):
if you have a daughter, a niece, a
granddaughter, someone who isinterested in STEM, very curious
about this, you know becoming ascientist and having great
dreams and ambitions of doingsomething amazing in the world
someday, make sure that you getonto Chloe's podcast so that you
can learn more.
So thank you so much, chloe,for joining us today on the
Quiet Warrior podcast.
You have been such a generousand detailed sharer of your
(46:59):
wisdom and of yourentrepreneurial path and we've
learned a lot from you.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
Thank you so much, Serena, for having me.
I really appreciate this.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (47:09):
And that was another episode of the Quiet Warrior
podcast.
If you've enjoyed thisconversation with Dr Chloe Lim,
make sure you check out herpodcast called Voices in STEM
and also rate and review thisepisode.
I'll see you on the next one.
I'm so grateful that you'rehere today.
If you found this contentvaluable, please share it on
(47:30):
your social media channels andsubscribe to the show on your
favorite listening platform.
Together, we can help moreintroverts thrive.
To receive more upliftingcontent like this, connect with
me on Instagram at Serena LuQuiet Warrior Coach.
Thank you for sharing your timeand your energy with me.
See you on the next episode.
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