April 20, 2025 • 54 mins
Our guest today is Dr. Ardeshir Mehran, a psychologist, trauma therapist, and author of the bestselling book You Are Not Depressed, You Are Un-Finished. Dr. Mehran is disrupting the mental health field by offering a new perspective on emotional wellness, healing depression, and easing emotional suffering.
During our conversation, Dr. Mehran shares his groundbreaking research on the 7 Emotional Needs, which he believes are at the core of depression, anxiety, and other mental health struggles. These needs, when unfulfilled, create a sense of disconnection from ourselves and others, leading to emotional distress.
Key Takeaways:
The Power of the 7 Emotional Needs: Dr. Mehran explains how unmet emotional needs are the root cause of depression and anxiety, and how identifying and fulfilling these needs can lead to emotional healing.
Reframing Depression: Depression is not an illness, but a signal that something is missing in our lives. By addressing the core emotional needs, we can overcome this feeling of emptiness and live more vibrantly.
Introverts and Quiet Achievers: Dr. Mehran discusses how introverts and quiet achievers can unlock their true potential by addressing emotional needs like connection, self-expression, and belonging—without having to "fit in" or silence their voice.
Practical Steps for Healing: Learn how small, consistent actions—referred to as "micro actions"—can create lasting change and help us reconnect with our true selves.
The Importance of Reparenting: Dr. Mehran emphasizes the need for reparenting ourselves by healing past wounds and creating a nurturing environment for our inner child.
Whether you’ve struggled with depression or simply want to feel more connected to your authentic self, this episode offers empowering insights and practical advice for anyone looking to heal and grow.
Resources Mentioned:
Dr. Ardeshir Mehran’s book: You Are Not Depressed, You Are Un-Finished
Follow Dr. Ardeshir on LinkedIn for valuable content on mental health and personal growth
If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review The Quiet Warrior Podcast on your listening app. Your support helps inspire more introverts and quiet achievers in our communities.
Connect with Serena:
Subscribe to The Visible Introvert newsletter for weekly tips and stories of how to amplify your quiet strengths without having to act extroverted.
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This episode was edited by Aura House Productions
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, I'm Serena Loh.
If you're used to hearing thatintroverts are shy, anxious,
antisocial and lack goodcommunication and leadership
skills, then this podcast is foryou.
You're about to fall in lovewith the calm, introspective and
profound person that you are.
Discover what's fun, unique andpowerful about being an
(00:22):
introvert, and how to make theelegant transition from quiet
achiever to quiet warrior inyour life and work anytime you
want, in more ways than youimagined possible.
Welcome, welcome to the QuietWarrior podcast.
Our guest today is apsychologist, trauma therapist,
(00:43):
behavioral researcher and aleadership and team coach.
Dr Adesha Mehran is disruptingthe mental health field by
delivering more effectivepractices to heal depression and
to ease the emotional sufferingof people across the world.
He is the author of thebest-selling book you Are Not
Depressed, you Are Unfinished,and he's also the developer of
(01:06):
the Bill of Emotional Rights,based on 30 years of research,
coaching and clinical work.
Dr Adishwar Mehran, welcome tothe Quiet Warrior podcast.
It is an honor to have you here.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Thank you so much, serena.
I love to be with you and withyour audience, and I'm sending
greetings from sunny SanFrancisco, so it's good to be
with you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Thank you so much, Dr Adesha.
I first noticed your profileand particularly the title of
your book, which intrigued me.
You say you are not depressed,you are unfinished, and I wonder
what that means in a time whenwe're very quick to label
ourselves and other people asdepressed or anxious and then
(01:51):
automatically we think, oh, youknow, I have this illness, I
need medication.
What are your thoughts on this?
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Yeah, thank you, great question.
So right now the way we thinkabout the so-called mental
illness or mental struggles isvery static obsessive-compulsive
, anxiety, depression, you know,like bipolar.
Once we get that, it almostseems like if we get a skin rash
(02:18):
we want to put some ointment,some medication to make it go
away.
Ointment, some medication tomake it go away.
Even with men with a skin rash,a good dermatologist looks at
it and looks to see is that askin rash based upon the poison
oak, or is it seasonal?
(02:47):
Is it allergy?
Why is it coming up?
We know from trauma, lingeringtrauma.
We have bad skin because you'reanxious a lot.
Unfortunately, with our societyand medical field, especially
the traditional psychiatry, wesee mental illness as static.
What I found out?
That if you look at the personand their struggle in the
(03:09):
context of a person's life, thestory of their illness becomes
very dynamic, that we don't justget depressed and so that the
solution is that let's heal thedepression that we can eradicate
that.
The solution is that let's healthe depression that we can
eradicate that that's whyhealing depression lasts a long
(03:29):
time in years, medication,therapy and a lot of them.
We end up tolerating that.
But if you see it from adifferent lens.
If you zoom out, you seedepression happens in a very
specific set of conditions.
So does anxiety, so doesobsessive, compulsive, adhd and
(03:50):
so on.
And with depression, really, thecore of that is that emotional
needs, which there are seven ofthem.
That really means people whoare depressed.
Whether you're a child,teenager, adult or a retiree.
There are emotional needs thatare unfulfilled, they're
(04:14):
violated.
You're not even aware of themmost of the cases and your
depression is a signal of needsunmet.
The moment you know that whatneeds haven't been fulfilled,
you can move toward fulfillingyour needs.
It's almost like you know ifyou have a certain health
(04:35):
condition and you are not takingenough supplements or vitamins,
the moment you start to takethem on a regular basis, your
health comes back.
Is the same thing with emotionalneeds and emotional needs
basically what they mean.
They need to be fulfilled allthrough lifetime, cradle to
grave.
Once we do that, we feel morefulfilled, we feel more alive,
(04:59):
we feel vibrant and courageous.
And unfinished means that'swhat real depression is that
there's something wrong.
I feel not alive, I feel thatI'm dormant, and unfinished is
actually a signal from you toyou, saying that wake up, claim
(05:23):
your life.
Be the person you were alwaysmeant to be.
Your soul is tormenting you soyou can play big and bolder,
versus playing catch up anddefensive just to trying to get
by, to adapt to the currentenvironment.
To get by, to adapt to thecurrent environment.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
So what I hear you say, dr Adesha, is that when we
have that condition ofdepression or anxiety, it's
actually us telling ourselves orgiving ourselves clues as to
what we need, and you mentionedseven emotional needs.
What are these needs?
Thank you these are these needs?
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Thank you.
These are the needs that arebiological, that we all humans,
throughout the culture, culture,history, religion, background,
we are all wired around them.
The very first need happenseven like in the mother's womb,
and then in the early phases oflife, the first three years, is
(06:28):
a need for attachment, secureattachment, connection, sense of
belonging, that there arepeople that they know me, they
hold me, they love me.
And this is a need ofconnection, this need of
(06:48):
connection, secure,unconditional connection that
I'm loved, I have people whotell me I'm good, I'm worth it,
I'm welcome to this world.
When it's not whichunfortunately for a lot of
people, that need is unavailablebecause parents are busy,
parents have their own struggles, there are multiple children,
there's poverty, there's tension, there's transition.
People come to this world butthey do not feel welcomed
(07:12):
emotionally.
They feel that I'm just herebut nobody saw me, nobody loved
me, nobody stopped justwelcoming me, looking at me,
hearing me and just giving meadmiration.
So that's a sense that I feelI'm good, I'm whole.
So that's the need of welcoming.
The next need, a belonging.
(07:34):
The next need is the need Icall I'm boundless.
The moment we develop aschildren, language, and this is
across cultures.
We use language as a way toguide people Sit here, don't go
over there.
And we tell to young childrenincluding I raised a son don't
be fidgety, don't use your hands, use your words, use your good
(07:58):
words, don't be goofy, and so on.
What we know from neurology wethink, literally.
We think and feel, evenbrainstorm, innovate, with our
entire body.
Some of you led to believe thatonly our brain, our wonderful
(08:18):
brain, is the source of ourcreativity and logic and
thinking.
Source of our creativity andlogic and thinking.
We are one integrated being andvery early on in our lives we
basically dismiss body, anythingbelow our frontal cortex, and
body becomes a vehicle thatmoves us around, moves our brain
(08:40):
around, and that's the reasonwe have pain in our body in our
back, in our throat gut and inour chest and heart.
We just think it's a pain.
No, pain is a signal, just likeemotions.
So I'm boundless means you havea body integrity, you are in
touch with your body.
It's not about how good of ashape you are, but you're in
(09:03):
touch with nature.
There's a sense of aliveness inyour body versus this sluggish,
slow body.
So there's that sense ofattunement, you know, like sense
of energy.
When you talk, you bring senseof fluidity, energy.
Then the next need whichhappens comes to focus around
the age of three to six and thenlasts through the whole
(09:26):
lifetime, is a need.
I am complete that very early on, as part of the growing up, and
parents, based upon parents'level of anxiety and control,
and the household parents, startto use the language of control,
shame, guilt.
That's not good, you're stupid,you know.
(09:47):
A good girl does this, a goodboy does that.
You know why did you do that?
A language of guiding.
We're trying to redirect energyFor many people.
They grow up and they think theyare not good enough.
We see this in grown-ups, wesee in teenagers, and they feel
(10:08):
that, oh, I don't feel goodabout myself.
Guilt, which is very dominantin adults, means that I did
something wrong.
Shame is that there's somethingwrong with me and shame once we
have that.
That is the core of self-esteem, self-appreciation,
self-acceptance.
(10:28):
So we grow up.
Many people, almost all myclients there's a lingering
aspects of they didn't feelthey're complete, that their
parts of them is still unformedor literally deformed in terms
of I am hurting and this is like45-year-old business executive.
(10:49):
So I am complete.
The work is, as parents, wegive conditional love and then
also unconditional love, but wedon't try to control, try to
redirect that.
There's a healthy self-esteemdeveloped.
The next need is the need Imatter.
(11:12):
We humans are social animals.
Nobody gets sick and nobodygets healed by themselves.
So by the time we leave thesafety of home we are always
around other people, other kids,neighborhood kids, school,
(11:34):
later on in colleges andworkplaces and communities.
This is a part of need beingrespected, honored, included in
the community.
You're in Case in point.
For many years I worked incorporate America and I would
see somebody enters theconference room.
Nobody would turn around, haveeye contact with them, call
(12:00):
their name.
Hey Barbara, hey John, comehere, good to see you.
We did that with people inposition of power, leader of the
group, but there were a lot ofpeople who felt invisible and
they are quiet people and a lotof times they were not even
nobody asked their opinion.
They were on the organizationalchart but nobody knew who they
(12:23):
are.
The need of matter that peopleknow you, they know why you are
here, they know and respect andvalue and they welcome your
opinion and nothing is doneunless you have an input to that
and it's one of the needs that,especially in in our society,
(12:45):
that divisions coming up.
You know, this group, thatgroup we create in conditional
sense of I matter that peoplewho are like me, first of all,
people who are different than me, different religion, culture,
you live uptown, you livedowntown.
We start to judge people goodenough, not good enough.
(13:06):
The heart of why matters thatyou're in this world, you're in
this community.
You matter, you have rightsthat's the reason I call it
emotional rights.
That is bestowed upon you bythe nature of your birth.
Parents don't give it to you.
Teachers, politicians, mayors,so on.
You matter.
Teachers, politicians, mayors,so on.
You matter by the time youstart to do.
(13:29):
Next need is I make whether, asa kid, you're drawing, you go to
school, you go to work,everybody in this world is doing
something the whole notion ofvocation that you're doing
something, you're good atsomething, you have hobbies and
(13:50):
you have pursuits.
The question is, what you'redoing?
Is that your area of passion,area that makes you come alive?
For many people, especially inthe world of work, work is a
trade-off.
I work in this role because toget money, to get health
(14:10):
benefits and retirement, becauseI have a family to take care of
, but we numb ourselves tosoulless jobs.
Year after year, galluporganizational survey, they,
they survey American activeglobal workforce.
We know in America every yearup to two-thirds of the
(14:31):
workforce, active workforce,they are disengaged.
Two-thirds that really is aradical, shocking number.
We know from also research fromGallup, from Columbia
University.
In these disengaged teams theyare higher rate of depression
and anxiety.
(14:51):
So when we work in anenvironment that we do the work
eight hours a day but we don'tfeel this is my work, we
literally get depressed.
It's like almost energy goingwasted.
We feel hopeless, we feel stuck, we feel soulless.
(15:12):
The question is, if you'refeeling depression, anxiety,
feeling burnout and you feelgoing nowhere instead of trying
to go fix your head, I needbetter training program.
I need to go exercise, betterdiet.
Ask a different question Areyou in the right place?
Are you in the right place?
(15:34):
Do you feel courageous?
Do you feel what you're doing,you're in flow?
When you're in flow, you're inlove.
That work feels like an act oflove and devotion and creation.
The next need I call it I am, Iam is by the time we become,
(15:55):
like you know, early in ourpreteen when we meet with other
in a school or other teenagersor young people and we try to
express ourselves.
This is about sharing yourinner conviction, what you
believe in, what are your hopes,what are your expressions, and
(16:15):
share them in a way that mattersto you, in a way that has the
energy or ideas.
They have, the energy andemotion and creativity of your
beliefs.
Very early on, we're all taughthow to share our ideas in a way
(16:38):
to fit in, to be listened to,to have our point come across.
And what happened?
We have our point come acrossand what happened?
We started to all sound alike.
We get a good PowerPoint, we goto the speech to coach we even
have coaches for presence, so westart to all come alike.
(16:58):
The act of leadership, presenceor presence in general is less
about how you present is.
Are you sharing what youbelieve in?
Do you know what your beliefsare?
I am, and this actually becomesquite a very visible experience
(17:19):
for women in the business world.
The way I came across and Iobserved this was about 12, 13
years ago and I noticed manyfemale leaders when they hired
me for leadership presence theywanted to be promoted to a
(17:39):
higher level that they hadcertain quality of tightness
around their neck, their jawsback, the shoulder being a back
pain, and as their voices werecome out and there was almost
like as if they were talkingunderwater, there was a sense of
(18:00):
monotonous delivery.
And I would ask him about it.
What it became evident thatthese is where people who, early
in life, they were told youneed to fit in.
So trying to make your voicefit in the room so that other
people can hear you, be a nicegirl, be a polite girl, raise
(18:21):
your voice up to certain level,but don't go higher, don't show
your emotions.
So become very flat as a way tocommunicate.
For men it's the other wayaround.
For men, they become verystrong, very dominant, they
overshoot, so almost they miss.
You're talking to people,you're not giving a declaration.
(18:44):
So I am is about where is themelody of your world, of your
belief and sharing that.
Once you do that, you feel comealive.
You literally feel elements ofyour depression lifted because
you're owning yourself, owningyour story.
Because you're owning yourself,owning your story.
(19:07):
The final one, which comes tofull view late 20, mid 30, is
the need, emotional need I calleyesore.
Behind me there's a poster onthe wall and, serena, you can
(19:28):
see.
It is right.
There is a quote by MayaAngelou and it says there is no
greater agony than bearing anuntold story inside you.
An untold story.
Eight billion people on thisearth.
There are eight billion stories.
We all have our stories.
We all have an inner vision,inner belief, inner journey of
(19:52):
life.
We all have it.
For many people, that was mefor a long time.
We just go along, you know, goto school, go to college, get a
job, get married, have kids.
But we never knew what ourstory is.
Once we know our story, weliterally become unstoppable.
(20:13):
We become strong, we becomepowerful, we become courageous.
And you will see, once you know, that your depression will turn
to energy, you will not bedepressed, you will be pissed,
you don't want to waste timeanymore.
So all those seven needs theyplay at different times in life,
(20:36):
but usually there are two orthree of them that are more
dominant, based upon the lifestages that create energy
pulsations for us.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Wow, dr Adesha, that was like a whole lecture by
itself on the seven emotionalneeds and I think there's a lot
for people who are listening todig into and really reflect on.
But I wanted to spotlight acouple that I think would be
particularly relevant to ourlisteners who are women, who are
introverts, who are quietachievers at work.
(21:14):
I was looking at, I wasreflecting on what you said
about I am and how it relates toauthentic self-expression, and
you talked about women leadershaving a certain tone of voice
or perhaps undershooting, Ithink was the analogy you used
and the idea of holding back theidea of that childhood
(21:35):
conditioning, even though wethink I'm a grown woman now, I'm
50, I'm not a child anymore, Ihave permission to speak and I
have earned the right to be inthis room and at this table, but
still, for some reason, we holdback that inner picture of
being the good girl, of needingto fit in, to comply, to get
(21:59):
that metaphorical pat on thehead and be told we are
wonderful, we're doing well, butdon't overstretch yourself,
don't aim too high.
That, I think, is where a lot ofquiet achievers are stuck at,
and you mentioned, I think,depression.
In a sense, it is like beingstuck in life, isn't it?
(22:20):
It's like you don't have theenergy, whereas the opposite of
it is.
When you said you don't want towaste time anymore because you
know your story, you get angryat, say, injustices or the way
things are, and that gives you anew energy to do something
about it, as opposed to feelingI'm helpless, I can't do
anything about it, I'm justgiving up.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
That's right.
That's right.
This is great.
The question is like I'm anintrovert, very extreme
introvert.
The question is you can beintrovert and be powerful, be
very strong and know your base.
(23:04):
For many people they useintrovert but what it really
means is that I'm shy, that Idon't feel comfortable, I feel
uncertain about myself or what Ineed to do.
Shyness, it really is aboutgoing that I'm not complete,
(23:26):
that there are elements of methat they are not good enough,
that I will be judged I'mhesitant to bring.
So what women who they want todo this work and they want to
basically own the power comesdown to a way of connecting
(23:49):
three of the emotional needs isI belong, I am and I'm complete.
When we feel we are hesitant toown our voice, our power, what
is also going on?
We feel isolated, we feel alone, we don't feel we belong at the
(24:13):
table, to the people around thetable, I'm an outsider.
So once we have that, we justfeel hesitant to take our space,
share our opinion, to push back, to argue, you know like, be
assertive, we become, go to thismindset of appease and please
(24:36):
so, which can be a traumaresponse.
So what I pay attention to,especially as a listener is that
what are the quality ofrelationships you have?
Do you feel you're accepted,you're loved and you're
connected with the people aroundyou?
Number one.
Number two to what extentyou're carrying the burden of
(24:58):
you're not good enough.
That you know one of the thingsyou see in many women they work
so hard than their malecounterpart because they feel
they need to prove themselves.
These are early programmingthat I need to do even more work
, more reports, more outputs,that sense of I'm not good
enough, and the way it shows upis a brain and body that never
(25:24):
settles down, like some of mywomen clients.
They would call and say thatit's 11 o'clock at night.
I've already done the report,my presentation is ready, but I
can enjoy it and I wake up inthe middle of the night and I
still rehearse it, I stillanalyze, reanalyze, because I'm
just worried that it will not begood enough.
So a sense of that having trustin yourself when you do your
(25:48):
good work you're done.
You're done, know when to let go.
Accept that so that I belong,I'm complete.
And the next one is that how doyou own your space, your arena?
And one of the exercises is andin fact, katy Perry, the pop
(26:12):
singer.
She has a song Roar.
I play that in my therapysession with my clients and I
would ask them show me your roarsong.
It doesn't matter what you say,but project your voice like as
if you're a lioness and you wantto show your roar.
A lioness and you want to showyour roar.
(26:34):
They hate it initially.
The reason is their voice wasconditioned always be in such a
level that you don't annoypeople, you don't alert people,
you just stay as a good girllevel and I tell them no,
whoever told you that?
They didn't see your power?
(26:55):
Project your voice and thereason you do that.
Your body remembers that.
Your body takes notice.
We can be strong, can be big,and you inherit this full power.
So, practicing, I am, I belongand I'm complete.
(27:16):
You go to really becoming fromthem.
You can still be very introvert, but you become a very powerful
person.
You own your space.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
I felt like you were talking to me specifically when
you talked about that song byKaty Perry.
Just last week I was at thistwo-day conference by Dr Bessel
van der Kolk, the author of theBody Keeps the Score, and one of
the exercises we were asked todo was to speak our name out
into our hands.
We speak our name out into ourhands, just cup our hands in
(27:53):
front of our mouth and say ourname In a room of 500 people.
The comment from thefacilitator was why is it that
so many of us have difficultysaying our own name out and
hearing it in our own voice?
Just hearing our voice, youknow, being mirrored back to us?
(28:14):
We're not comfortable with ourvoices.
We're not comfortable even withhearing our name.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
That's right.
That's right.
That's right Absolutely.
And part of that we talkedabout early childhood
development, which actuallythere's a pendulum swing in the
field of psychology is happeningabout earliest stages of life.
That is called when the motheror primary caregiver holds the
(28:46):
baby in her arms.
There's a process calledmirroring, that you hold the
baby in your arm and you'recalling the baby's name, like
Serena, John, lucas, what you'redoing, the baby says this is my
(29:07):
name, somebody says my name,and the way they say the name
Lucas, serena, the strength, thepower, the resonance, you, your
brain, remembers that this isme.
That's how you shape a sense ofinner strength.
There are many children grow up.
(29:28):
They don't have a resonance oftheir being seen, being
addressed and being invited.
Serena, how are you, sweetie?
They want to see you.
Just you know, like strokingyour face and validating that.
So to that, dr Bessel van derKolk, what it means.
(29:52):
We don't have an innerresonance, our name being
welcomed to this world.
And that's the work we need todo as adults.
Basically, we're reparentingourselves, we're reprogramming a
neurological response.
But this is me, this is my name.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
I'm here, I have the rights and I reclaim my space.
I love that description ofreparenting ourselves because I
think a lot of us listening tothis episode would be reflecting
on all the times in ourchildhood where we didn't feel
welcome, we didn't feel included, we didn't feel seen, we didn't
feel heard, and some of that isstill lingering in the body.
And then it shows up in allkinds of ways when we are out in
(30:47):
the world, when we are in ourprofessional capacity, and we
think that was my childhood,it's done with.
I'm grown up now.
But then it plays out again andagain in different ways.
And when we hold back we don'tshow up fully, we don't express
ourselves authentically, wedon't let people see who we
really are.
We show them a little bit.
We curate a lot, we filter alot, we put up the mask to keep
(31:09):
ourselves safe a lot.
We put up the mask to keepourselves safe and so people
don't really see the full extentof how amazing, how courageous,
how resilient, how creative,how resourceful, all the things
that we are.
We just show the world a littlebit because we are afraid.
You mentioned the shame, theguilt, that sense of I'm not
(31:30):
good enough in myself.
I'm not complete, so thereforeI always have to be doing
something more.
What is it that I need to domore, you know?
Should I work harder?
Should I present myself acertain way?
Should I go to more courses andlearn to develop my executive
presence and my charisma?
Should I speak louder?
Should I go for elocutionlessons?
So we keep trying to lookoutwards to fix for the solution
(31:55):
, maybe the medication, even.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Serena.
Something important to mentionwe feel bad when we try to be
more vocal, more assertive, youknow like, show our good part
and bring our inner talents,which we know we have, to the
world and we just go just a bitand we get apprehensive, we get
(32:23):
tongue-tied, we get anxious andwe fall back again and we say,
oh, it didn't work.
I need another training,another book, another therapy
sessions.
No, here's what's going on Inour body, in our nervous system,
which is the entire nervoussystem.
There's no such thing asbackspace, delete of our
(32:44):
emotions.
Once we have emotions that,especially if they happen early
in life, they're there foreverin our system.
What we need to do is createnew emotions so that, when there
are different situations, ournervous system and our behaviors
have alternative pathway ofcreating response.
(33:07):
And the way we do that, thejourney of growth, is journey of
restoration, that if we haven'texperienced something fully,
that we know what it looks like,we cannot wing it.
We can think about it, do it,but our body feels weird, it
doesn't feel natural.
(33:28):
So we need to create naturallyjoy-based, reinforcing types of
behavior.
And the way we do that we wantto practice a stronger way of
being more assertive, bolder,more boundaries, expressing love
(33:49):
or disapproval of people aroundus.
The way we need to do that, weneed to practice it.
We need to practice in smalldoses.
Literally got to be small in away that feels good and real for
us.
We can't judge, and that's thereason a lot of coaching they go
(34:10):
to a client and I've done this.
You know I'm guilty of the samething.
Give a client a big, thickbinder of 360 degree feedback
your strengths, yourdevelopmental feedback.
Let's set goals and come upwith the action step for next
week.
People come back.
(34:34):
They barely touched anythingand we think they are resisting.
They are not following through,they are procrastinating.
No, no, no To do anything.
You pick one action and youpractice it in a small dose.
You just don't go create actionplans, because by having data
doesn't mean behavior change.
(34:55):
We need to actually do it.
So we have what is called bodymemory.
This is what it looks like Forme to project my voice.
You need to actually projectyour voice.
How did it feel?
Oh, it feels anxious.
I feel weird.
All right, take a deep breath.
Take a deep breath, do it again.
(35:15):
Do it again so it starts tofeel more natural.
Hey, I like this.
You create body memory, then thenext session you make it even
bigger, you bring more color,you bring some powerful words,
you bring some assertive words.
So you create, create bodymemory.
So we need to create body first, brain, second behavioral
(35:36):
change.
Most of the therapy these dayscognitive behavior therapy or
coaching is based upon brainfirst, body next.
That, scientifically, isincorrect.
What we know from neurologybrain follows the body.
If you want to do something bigand bold we haven't done we
(35:58):
need to bring the body into theconversation, help expand it,
help get comfortable with beingsomething daring, something cool
, something bold, and we findjoy in it, and then we will do
it.
So bring your body, bring yourbeing into the conversation.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
So what you said was body first and brain second.
Yeah, because we've beenconditioned to think that the
brain is superior.
Anything that comes from thehead is good.
Therefore, more research, moreevidence, more data is superior.
Anything that comes from thehead is good.
Therefore, more research, moreevidence, more data is better,
but you're saying there's adisconnect.
The body actually leads.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
It leads.
The reason is this isevolutionary, as we're
developing as a species and thenas we come to this world.
We perceive things firstthrough our body, when brain is
still being formed.
What does it mean?
The way a mother holds the baby, the calmness of the mother's
(37:07):
presence, the way mother breeds,the way mother is available for
as long as the baby is there,that sends the signal of safety.
I'm welcomed, my protection.
So the way we hold the baby,your parents love it.
But what we're actually doingwe're creating an armor of
(37:28):
protection around the baby.
Almost the baby feels like inthe womb again.
So as we do that, the braincells start to open up and make
connection that I'm safe, I'mwelcome.
Our brain knows that throughthe body sensations.
Later on, words, if the words isatone, is gentle, is respectful
(37:53):
, can be very firm and critical.
Brain thinks that I'm learningand it's a safe environment.
So brain always looks to body.
Am I feeling safety?
Am I feeling the trust?
Am I feeling connection?
So those again, you know safety, trust and connection.
Brain opens up.
(38:13):
If we don't, brain goes tofight or flight and becomes very
getting work done, becomes verytense.
So create an environment thatwe feel safe, connected and
trusted brain opens up.
So that's the work we need todo For our introverted warriors.
(38:39):
Do you feel a sense of safetyin your body?
Do you feel a sense ofconnection to people around
yourself?
Do you feel a sense of trust?
Those are essential for you toshow up bigger and bolder.
If not, bring the work to youfirst, otherwise, whatever you
(39:01):
do will not last long and itdoesn't feel good.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
I like that you mentioned the importance of
feeling good, because thatphrase can sometimes be used to
make something seeminsignificant or trivial.
Oh, it's just about feeling good.
You know feelings, and sofeelings are to be discounted.
They're not as valuable as whatcomes from the brain, but we
(39:29):
are holistic beings, as youmentioned at the start of this
conversation.
So all of us, all parts of us,need to be on board and need to
be integrated and functioning ina healthy way, because what
affects one part affectseverything else, and I like how
you have summarized what we needto do.
For those of us who are parents, there is that element of
(39:52):
looking back to see where ourearly childhood conditioning has
affected us and thereforeaffected the way we project
ourselves and the way we parent,and so we need to parent our
own inner child, as it were,that younger version of
ourselves, attuning ourselves toour children in a different way
, unconditionally welcoming,bringing safety, because we know
(40:17):
it affects them, and that hasto start from from the womb or
even before because the child isabsorbing everything and their
and their brain development isaffected by how they are feeling
, whether whether they feel safe.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
That's right.
That's right.
This is so good, serena, whatyou mentioned.
This morning I was at my localgym.
I go there several times a weekto work out.
It's my way of staying healthy.
There was a woman next to mehadn't seen her before and after
the workout.
We were starting to talk andshe told me she's a marketing
leader in this community.
(40:53):
Her son goes to this school.
My son went to for high schooland I told her about my.
I'm a psychologist.
I asked her about the work thatI do and she said can I ask you
a question?
I said I know my parents.
My mother especially, wasdiagnosed with ADHD.
I know I have ADHD.
My two teenagers, a boy and agirl, they have ADHD.
(41:16):
So that's genetic, you know,I've been told.
Is that correct?
I said no, it's not.
Adhd is not genetic.
The ADHD is a learneddevelopmental behavior.
That the way we and I said.
The ADHD, the heart of that, isa brain that never found enough
secure and a stable connection.
(41:39):
It's the brain that is stilltrying to find a landing ground.
Is anybody seeing me?
Is anybody loving me?
Where is the security?
Predictability, safety come up.
Predictability, safety come up.
And I shared with you that whatwe know from the research,
(42:01):
especially from the traumapsychology, that the heart of
ADHD is anxiety.
It's an anxious body trying tofind stability.
And once you, dear neighbor,you arrive at yourself with a
different way of resetting theterm.
Clinical term is resetting yournervous system, so you're less
anxious, you're more tolerant ofyourself, you're more connected
(42:21):
.
You literally will see yourbrain, your ADHD brain that has
been very hyperactive,distracted and struggling with
executive functions, calms down,you have focus, you have longer
attention span and once you dothis, you can work with your
doctors, you can literally comeout of medications.
(42:44):
And that's the work I've beendoing with a number of teens and
adults that they had come toaccept that I'm ADHD, I'm
biodivergent, I can go throughwhole life taking medication.
No, it's a body that never didand finished developmental
growth.
And once we change which we canour children will be different.
(43:08):
We sit in a different homeenvironment.
Be different.
We sit in a different homeenvironment, so we can this is
going to the field ofgenerational patterning we can
change what we learn from ourparents, or children have a
different experience growing up.
Speaker 1 (43:27):
I feel, dr Adesha, we will need to have another
conversation with you, becauseyou've just started talking
about ADHD and how it is learnedand not genetic, and you talked
about generational patterningand how we can, in a sense,
break the cycle by changing theway we are so that our children
can change, and that's going togive a lot of hope to parents
(43:49):
who are listening to, parentswho are struggling at the moment
with so many issues theinfluence of social media, the
school system, children'sdevelopmental needs, the way
children cope and parents' ownstruggles, and some days it can
just feel overwhelming.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
It is and you use the term hope.
As a psychologist, I getfrustrated with psychologists
that the answer when somebodyshares I'm depressed, anxious,
obsessive, compulsive, so on, isthat you need medication, you
need treatment and you need tosee certain hours of therapy.
(44:32):
We forget to explain to ourclients what exactly is
depression, what is anxiety,what's really behind this,
beyond symptoms?
Because once you understand whywe act and feel the way we do,
once you understand the newscience, the journey of healing
(44:54):
is restoration.
We literally is reverseengineering.
Depression can be reversed,anxiety can be reversed.
The ADHD, obsessive, compulsive,these they do not need to be
lifelong patterns.
What will happen those patterns, especially if they develop
(45:19):
early in life?
They will always will be there,but we can learn, noticing.
How do we go to that distractedmind, practices to reset it,
reframe it and come out of itagain, so we can do self-manage
rather quickly and then whenthat happens, episode of coming
(45:44):
out of it will be faster and westay in that deeper.
The reason this is importantfor those who read my book I
struggled with depression for solong.
So did my mom, dad, mygrandparents, my brothers,
sisters, and I had come toaccept that I will die with
(46:05):
depression as a part of me whenI healed myself based upon seven
emotional needs.
So people ask me so, arashir,you're not depressed anymore?
I still have to tell them I'mnot clinically depressed anymore
, but I know depression and Iknow when I go to a depressive
(46:25):
mood, versus being depressed,that always means there's
something going on.
I'm playing small, I'm notsolving some life problem, I'm
ignoring a conversation with acolleague, with my spouse, and
basically it means I'm ignoringthings.
So I'm becoming to a victimmode.
So when I see that I catch mybreath, I go take a nap, go run,
(46:50):
play around with the goldenretriever and come back and face
what I've been avoiding.
Once you do that, thatdepressive mood dissipates and I
use that depression anxiety asa signal that, arash, you're not
(47:10):
doing living, you're just beingvictim, you're just avoiding.
So there's hope, massive hopefor people who struggle with the
so-called emotional struggles,and you can come out of it.
Speaker 1 (47:27):
I think that is the single most beautiful empowering
message from our conversationtoday, dr Adeshia, and I really
want to express my appreciationfor the way you've articulated
what is it that we are goingthrough, why we don't have to
suffer silently or just accept alifetime of medication as the
(47:50):
only solution.
What are some of the practicalthings we can do?
I love that you emphasize theimportance of practice, because
that means there is something wecan do and it doesn't have to
be a big thing.
I like calling it micro actionsfor my clients, because the
actions themselves can be toooverwhelming when you've been
stuck for a long time.
But micro actions, if I canscale it back to something I can
(48:12):
do right now, today or in thismoment, something really small,
really achievable.
If I can do that, then I can dothe next thing, and then I can
do the next thing and I canbuild my capacity, and it
doesn't have to be all at onceand it doesn't have to overwhelm
my nervous system so I canexert some control.
I still have that autonomy and Ithink that is very empowering,
(48:35):
because we don't choose to bevictims.
I think we unconsciously becomevictims and we assume that
that's how we will always be andthat's how we always feel.
But what you're saying is, no,we can reset, we can re-regulate
ourselves, we can re-parentourselves.
So there is so much that we cando as parents, as guardians, as
(48:58):
carers, as educators, as peoplewho are just interested in
human nature and being betterversions of ourselves, I think.
So I've loved this conversationtoday and your seven emotional
needs the healthy version versusmaybe the current version that
we are in, and we can see thegap, we can see what we need to
(49:22):
be, and it sounds to me likeit's like a journey home to our
true selves.
I think when we were children weprobably had a greater
recognition, though we didn'thave the language for it.
We had a greater recognition ofwhat that felt like.
But as we grew older and westarted getting distracted and
(49:45):
pursuing external objectives alot more, we lost that
connection back to ourselves.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
That's right.
I love that, serena.
You mentioned about journeycoming home.
That's right.
(50:08):
I love that, serena, youmentioned about journey coming
home.
One of the hobbies that I have,I love to restore old wood
furniture.
So I go like through thesummertime there are garage sale
or people who throw away oldfurniture some from decades ago
and old furniture when you getthem.
Over the years they've been putlayers of wax, varnish and
paint and I really slowly, withdifferent solution, with
different sanding, I just removeeverything that was put on the
furniture, on that piece of oakwood that from 1920 as a way to
(50:33):
make it look beautiful.
But once you take all thethings that they were unnatural,
you see this wood, this door,this chair.
It is beautiful as it came, wasmade from the original tree.
To me, healing is the same thingThrough the early life,
conditioning the people we growup with, the language, the
(50:59):
emotional, good girl, bad girl,duties, don't do that.
We get a lot of layers ofthings that they made us not be
ourselves, that they made us notbe ourselves, that we feel when
we actually have mentalstruggles, we feel caged.
We all feel there's a part ofme.
I don't even feel it.
(51:21):
The world doesn't feel it, butI feel it.
I feel it in my body.
I just feel that I'msuffocating.
The work is get rid ofeverything that was put on you
of irrational expectation, thelanguage, the labels, the
burdens, so that you get toreparent, recreate the you for
(51:43):
today, for this day, what I'mtalking about.
We don't even need to go andspend a lot of time.
How did this happen?
Early life experiences, thejourney, and this is the work
that you know Basil Van Der Kolktalks about the journey of
creation.
Reparenting happens right now,today, where you are, what are
(52:06):
you sensing?
What feels real?
What feels is extra layer.
Sensing what feels real, whatfeels is extra layer.
Start to own and recreate ajoy-based, a tiny part of you
that feels real.
And it feels real when you dosomething real.
You know it, you feel it, itfeels ah, this feels good, this
(52:30):
feels like, this feelseffortless.
So that's how we recreate a newreality right now.
And the good thing is we can doit over and over.
There are many times when youdo this journey things don't go
well.
I wish it was better, longer,felt, more, joyful, Good.
Take a deep breath, do it again.
Do it tomorrow, do it again wecan always practice again, thank
(52:56):
you so much, dr Adesha.
Speaker 1 (52:58):
So, for those of us who are listening, I encourage
you to buy the book.
You're Not Depressed, you AreUnfinished.
It's available on Amazon.
Look up Dr Adesha on LinkedIn,where he's very active and
always sharing quality contenton mental health, mental
wellness and how we can reparentourselves.
And if you've enjoyed thisepisode, rate and review it on
(53:20):
your listening platform as well,so that the Quiet Warrior
podcast can get in front of moreintroverts and quiet achievers
around the world.
Thank you so much, dr AdeshaMehran, for joining us today.
Thank you so much, serena, andthank you so much, dr Adishan
Miran for joining us today.
Speaker 2 (53:31):
Thank you so much, serena, and thank you so much
for your listeners and I wishyou well.
There's always hope.
Accept hope.
Don't accept that if you have astruggle, it's not a death
sentence or life sentence.
There's always hope.
Speaker 1 (53:49):
I'm so grateful that you're here today.
If you found this contentvaluable, please share it on
your social media channels andsubscribe to the show on your
favorite listening platform.
Together, we can help moreintroverts thrive.
To receive more upliftingcontent like this, connect with
me on Instagram at Serena LoQuiet Warrior Coach.
(54:09):
Thank you for sharing your timeand your energy with me.
See you on the next episode.
Hi, I'm Serena Loh.
If you're used to hearing thatintroverts are shy, anxious,
antisocial and lack goodcommunication and leadership
skills, then this podcast is foryou.
You're about to fall in lovewith the calm, introspective and
profound person that you are.
Discover what's fun, unique andpowerful about being an
(00:22):
introvert, and how to make theelegant transition from quiet
achiever to quiet warrior inyour life and work anytime you
want, in more ways than youimagined possible.
Welcome, welcome to the QuietWarrior podcast.
Our guest today is apsychologist, trauma therapist,
(00:43):
behavioral researcher and aleadership and team coach.
Dr Adesha Mehran is disruptingthe mental health field by
delivering more effectivepractices to heal depression and
to ease the emotional sufferingof people across the world.
He is the author of thebest-selling book you Are Not
Depressed, you Are Unfinished,and he's also the developer of
(01:06):
the Bill of Emotional Rights,based on 30 years of research,
coaching and clinical work.
Dr Adishwar Mehran, welcome tothe Quiet Warrior podcast.
It is an honor to have you here.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Thank you so much, serena.
I love to be with you and withyour audience, and I'm sending
greetings from sunny SanFrancisco, so it's good to be
with you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Thank you so much, Dr Adesha.
I first noticed your profileand particularly the title of
your book, which intrigued me.
You say you are not depressed,you are unfinished, and I wonder
what that means in a time whenwe're very quick to label
ourselves and other people asdepressed or anxious and then
(01:51):
automatically we think, oh, youknow, I have this illness, I
need medication.
What are your thoughts on this?
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Yeah, thank you, great question.
So right now the way we thinkabout the so-called mental
illness or mental struggles isvery static obsessive-compulsive
, anxiety, depression, you know,like bipolar.
Once we get that, it almostseems like if we get a skin rash
(02:18):
we want to put some ointment,some medication to make it go
away.
Ointment, some medication tomake it go away.
Even with men with a skin rash,a good dermatologist looks at
it and looks to see is that askin rash based upon the poison
oak, or is it seasonal?
(02:47):
Is it allergy?
Why is it coming up?
We know from trauma, lingeringtrauma.
We have bad skin because you'reanxious a lot.
Unfortunately, with our societyand medical field, especially
the traditional psychiatry, wesee mental illness as static.
What I found out?
That if you look at the personand their struggle in the
(03:09):
context of a person's life, thestory of their illness becomes
very dynamic, that we don't justget depressed and so that the
solution is that let's heal thedepression that we can eradicate
that.
The solution is that let's healthe depression that we can
eradicate that that's whyhealing depression lasts a long
(03:29):
time in years, medication,therapy and a lot of them.
We end up tolerating that.
But if you see it from adifferent lens.
If you zoom out, you seedepression happens in a very
specific set of conditions.
So does anxiety, so doesobsessive, compulsive, adhd and
(03:50):
so on.
And with depression, really, thecore of that is that emotional
needs, which there are seven ofthem.
That really means people whoare depressed.
Whether you're a child,teenager, adult or a retiree.
There are emotional needs thatare unfulfilled, they're
(04:14):
violated.
You're not even aware of themmost of the cases and your
depression is a signal of needsunmet.
The moment you know that whatneeds haven't been fulfilled,
you can move toward fulfillingyour needs.
It's almost like you know ifyou have a certain health
(04:35):
condition and you are not takingenough supplements or vitamins,
the moment you start to takethem on a regular basis, your
health comes back.
Is the same thing with emotionalneeds and emotional needs
basically what they mean.
They need to be fulfilled allthrough lifetime, cradle to
grave.
Once we do that, we feel morefulfilled, we feel more alive,
(04:59):
we feel vibrant and courageous.
And unfinished means that'swhat real depression is that
there's something wrong.
I feel not alive, I feel thatI'm dormant, and unfinished is
actually a signal from you toyou, saying that wake up, claim
(05:23):
your life.
Be the person you were alwaysmeant to be.
Your soul is tormenting you soyou can play big and bolder,
versus playing catch up anddefensive just to trying to get
by, to adapt to the currentenvironment.
To get by, to adapt to thecurrent environment.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
So what I hear you say, dr Adesha, is that when we
have that condition ofdepression or anxiety, it's
actually us telling ourselves orgiving ourselves clues as to
what we need, and you mentionedseven emotional needs.
What are these needs?
Thank you these are these needs?
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Thank you.
These are the needs that arebiological, that we all humans,
throughout the culture, culture,history, religion, background,
we are all wired around them.
The very first need happenseven like in the mother's womb,
and then in the early phases oflife, the first three years, is
(06:28):
a need for attachment, secureattachment, connection, sense of
belonging, that there arepeople that they know me, they
hold me, they love me.
And this is a need ofconnection, this need of
(06:48):
connection, secure,unconditional connection that
I'm loved, I have people whotell me I'm good, I'm worth it,
I'm welcome to this world.
When it's not whichunfortunately for a lot of
people, that need is unavailablebecause parents are busy,
parents have their own struggles, there are multiple children,
there's poverty, there's tension, there's transition.
People come to this world butthey do not feel welcomed
(07:12):
emotionally.
They feel that I'm just herebut nobody saw me, nobody loved
me, nobody stopped justwelcoming me, looking at me,
hearing me and just giving meadmiration.
So that's a sense that I feelI'm good, I'm whole.
So that's the need of welcoming.
The next need, a belonging.
(07:34):
The next need is the need Icall I'm boundless.
The moment we develop aschildren, language, and this is
across cultures.
We use language as a way toguide people Sit here, don't go
over there.
And we tell to young childrenincluding I raised a son don't
be fidgety, don't use your hands, use your words, use your good
(07:58):
words, don't be goofy, and so on.
What we know from neurology wethink, literally.
We think and feel, evenbrainstorm, innovate, with our
entire body.
Some of you led to believe thatonly our brain, our wonderful
(08:18):
brain, is the source of ourcreativity and logic and
thinking.
Source of our creativity andlogic and thinking.
We are one integrated being andvery early on in our lives we
basically dismiss body, anythingbelow our frontal cortex, and
body becomes a vehicle thatmoves us around, moves our brain
(08:40):
around, and that's the reasonwe have pain in our body in our
back, in our throat gut and inour chest and heart.
We just think it's a pain.
No, pain is a signal, just likeemotions.
So I'm boundless means you havea body integrity, you are in
touch with your body.
It's not about how good of ashape you are, but you're in
(09:03):
touch with nature.
There's a sense of aliveness inyour body versus this sluggish,
slow body.
So there's that sense ofattunement, you know, like sense
of energy.
When you talk, you bring senseof fluidity, energy.
Then the next need whichhappens comes to focus around
the age of three to six and thenlasts through the whole
(09:26):
lifetime, is a need.
I am complete that very early on, as part of the growing up, and
parents, based upon parents'level of anxiety and control,
and the household parents, startto use the language of control,
shame, guilt.
That's not good, you're stupid,you know.
(09:47):
A good girl does this, a goodboy does that.
You know why did you do that?
A language of guiding.
We're trying to redirect energyFor many people.
They grow up and they think theyare not good enough.
We see this in grown-ups, wesee in teenagers, and they feel
(10:08):
that, oh, I don't feel goodabout myself.
Guilt, which is very dominantin adults, means that I did
something wrong.
Shame is that there's somethingwrong with me and shame once we
have that.
That is the core of self-esteem, self-appreciation,
self-acceptance.
(10:28):
So we grow up.
Many people, almost all myclients there's a lingering
aspects of they didn't feelthey're complete, that their
parts of them is still unformedor literally deformed in terms
of I am hurting and this is like45-year-old business executive.
(10:49):
So I am complete.
The work is, as parents, wegive conditional love and then
also unconditional love, but wedon't try to control, try to
redirect that.
There's a healthy self-esteemdeveloped.
The next need is the need Imatter.
(11:12):
We humans are social animals.
Nobody gets sick and nobodygets healed by themselves.
So by the time we leave thesafety of home we are always
around other people, other kids,neighborhood kids, school,
(11:34):
later on in colleges andworkplaces and communities.
This is a part of need beingrespected, honored, included in
the community.
You're in Case in point.
For many years I worked incorporate America and I would
see somebody enters theconference room.
Nobody would turn around, haveeye contact with them, call
(12:00):
their name.
Hey Barbara, hey John, comehere, good to see you.
We did that with people inposition of power, leader of the
group, but there were a lot ofpeople who felt invisible and
they are quiet people and a lotof times they were not even
nobody asked their opinion.
They were on the organizationalchart but nobody knew who they
(12:23):
are.
The need of matter that peopleknow you, they know why you are
here, they know and respect andvalue and they welcome your
opinion and nothing is doneunless you have an input to that
and it's one of the needs that,especially in in our society,
(12:45):
that divisions coming up.
You know, this group, thatgroup we create in conditional
sense of I matter that peoplewho are like me, first of all,
people who are different than me, different religion, culture,
you live uptown, you livedowntown.
We start to judge people goodenough, not good enough.
(13:06):
The heart of why matters thatyou're in this world, you're in
this community.
You matter, you have rightsthat's the reason I call it
emotional rights.
That is bestowed upon you bythe nature of your birth.
Parents don't give it to you.
Teachers, politicians, mayors,so on.
You matter.
Teachers, politicians, mayors,so on.
You matter by the time youstart to do.
(13:29):
Next need is I make whether, asa kid, you're drawing, you go to
school, you go to work,everybody in this world is doing
something the whole notion ofvocation that you're doing
something, you're good atsomething, you have hobbies and
(13:50):
you have pursuits.
The question is, what you'redoing?
Is that your area of passion,area that makes you come alive?
For many people, especially inthe world of work, work is a
trade-off.
I work in this role because toget money, to get health
(14:10):
benefits and retirement, becauseI have a family to take care of
, but we numb ourselves tosoulless jobs.
Year after year, galluporganizational survey, they,
they survey American activeglobal workforce.
We know in America every yearup to two-thirds of the
(14:31):
workforce, active workforce,they are disengaged.
Two-thirds that really is aradical, shocking number.
We know from also research fromGallup, from Columbia
University.
In these disengaged teams theyare higher rate of depression
and anxiety.
(14:51):
So when we work in anenvironment that we do the work
eight hours a day but we don'tfeel this is my work, we
literally get depressed.
It's like almost energy goingwasted.
We feel hopeless, we feel stuck, we feel soulless.
(15:12):
The question is, if you'refeeling depression, anxiety,
feeling burnout and you feelgoing nowhere instead of trying
to go fix your head, I needbetter training program.
I need to go exercise, betterdiet.
Ask a different question Areyou in the right place?
Are you in the right place?
(15:34):
Do you feel courageous?
Do you feel what you're doing,you're in flow?
When you're in flow, you're inlove.
That work feels like an act oflove and devotion and creation.
The next need I call it I am, Iam is by the time we become,
(15:55):
like you know, early in ourpreteen when we meet with other
in a school or other teenagersor young people and we try to
express ourselves.
This is about sharing yourinner conviction, what you
believe in, what are your hopes,what are your expressions, and
(16:15):
share them in a way that mattersto you, in a way that has the
energy or ideas.
They have, the energy andemotion and creativity of your
beliefs.
Very early on, we're all taughthow to share our ideas in a way
(16:38):
to fit in, to be listened to,to have our point come across.
And what happened?
We have our point come acrossand what happened?
We started to all sound alike.
We get a good PowerPoint, we goto the speech to coach we even
have coaches for presence, so westart to all come alike.
(16:58):
The act of leadership, presenceor presence in general is less
about how you present is.
Are you sharing what youbelieve in?
Do you know what your beliefsare?
I am, and this actually becomesquite a very visible experience
(17:19):
for women in the business world.
The way I came across and Iobserved this was about 12, 13
years ago and I noticed manyfemale leaders when they hired
me for leadership presence theywanted to be promoted to a
(17:39):
higher level that they hadcertain quality of tightness
around their neck, their jawsback, the shoulder being a back
pain, and as their voices werecome out and there was almost
like as if they were talkingunderwater, there was a sense of
(18:00):
monotonous delivery.
And I would ask him about it.
What it became evident thatthese is where people who, early
in life, they were told youneed to fit in.
So trying to make your voicefit in the room so that other
people can hear you, be a nicegirl, be a polite girl, raise
(18:21):
your voice up to certain level,but don't go higher, don't show
your emotions.
So become very flat as a way tocommunicate.
For men it's the other wayaround.
For men, they become verystrong, very dominant, they
overshoot, so almost they miss.
You're talking to people,you're not giving a declaration.
(18:44):
So I am is about where is themelody of your world, of your
belief and sharing that.
Once you do that, you feel comealive.
You literally feel elements ofyour depression lifted because
you're owning yourself, owningyour story.
Because you're owning yourself,owning your story.
(19:07):
The final one, which comes tofull view late 20, mid 30, is
the need, emotional need I calleyesore.
Behind me there's a poster onthe wall and, serena, you can
(19:28):
see.
It is right.
There is a quote by MayaAngelou and it says there is no
greater agony than bearing anuntold story inside you.
An untold story.
Eight billion people on thisearth.
There are eight billion stories.
We all have our stories.
We all have an inner vision,inner belief, inner journey of
(19:52):
life.
We all have it.
For many people, that was mefor a long time.
We just go along, you know, goto school, go to college, get a
job, get married, have kids.
But we never knew what ourstory is.
Once we know our story, weliterally become unstoppable.
(20:13):
We become strong, we becomepowerful, we become courageous.
And you will see, once you know, that your depression will turn
to energy, you will not bedepressed, you will be pissed,
you don't want to waste timeanymore.
So all those seven needs theyplay at different times in life,
(20:36):
but usually there are two orthree of them that are more
dominant, based upon the lifestages that create energy
pulsations for us.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Wow, dr Adesha, that was like a whole lecture by
itself on the seven emotionalneeds and I think there's a lot
for people who are listening todig into and really reflect on.
But I wanted to spotlight acouple that I think would be
particularly relevant to ourlisteners who are women, who are
introverts, who are quietachievers at work.
(21:14):
I was looking at, I wasreflecting on what you said
about I am and how it relates toauthentic self-expression, and
you talked about women leadershaving a certain tone of voice
or perhaps undershooting, Ithink was the analogy you used
and the idea of holding back theidea of that childhood
(21:35):
conditioning, even though wethink I'm a grown woman now, I'm
50, I'm not a child anymore, Ihave permission to speak and I
have earned the right to be inthis room and at this table, but
still, for some reason, we holdback that inner picture of
being the good girl, of needingto fit in, to comply, to get
(21:59):
that metaphorical pat on thehead and be told we are
wonderful, we're doing well, butdon't overstretch yourself,
don't aim too high.
That, I think, is where a lot ofquiet achievers are stuck at,
and you mentioned, I think,depression.
In a sense, it is like beingstuck in life, isn't it?
(22:20):
It's like you don't have theenergy, whereas the opposite of
it is.
When you said you don't want towaste time anymore because you
know your story, you get angryat, say, injustices or the way
things are, and that gives you anew energy to do something
about it, as opposed to feelingI'm helpless, I can't do
anything about it, I'm justgiving up.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
That's right.
That's right.
This is great.
The question is like I'm anintrovert, very extreme
introvert.
The question is you can beintrovert and be powerful, be
very strong and know your base.
(23:04):
For many people they useintrovert but what it really
means is that I'm shy, that Idon't feel comfortable, I feel
uncertain about myself or what Ineed to do.
Shyness, it really is aboutgoing that I'm not complete,
(23:26):
that there are elements of methat they are not good enough,
that I will be judged I'mhesitant to bring.
So what women who they want todo this work and they want to
basically own the power comesdown to a way of connecting
(23:49):
three of the emotional needs isI belong, I am and I'm complete.
When we feel we are hesitant toown our voice, our power, what
is also going on?
We feel isolated, we feel alone, we don't feel we belong at the
(24:13):
table, to the people around thetable, I'm an outsider.
So once we have that, we justfeel hesitant to take our space,
share our opinion, to push back, to argue, you know like, be
assertive, we become, go to thismindset of appease and please
(24:36):
so, which can be a traumaresponse.
So what I pay attention to,especially as a listener is that
what are the quality ofrelationships you have?
Do you feel you're accepted,you're loved and you're
connected with the people aroundyou?
Number one.
Number two to what extentyou're carrying the burden of
(24:58):
you're not good enough.
That you know one of the thingsyou see in many women they work
so hard than their malecounterpart because they feel
they need to prove themselves.
These are early programmingthat I need to do even more work
, more reports, more outputs,that sense of I'm not good
enough, and the way it shows upis a brain and body that never
(25:24):
settles down, like some of mywomen clients.
They would call and say thatit's 11 o'clock at night.
I've already done the report,my presentation is ready, but I
can enjoy it and I wake up inthe middle of the night and I
still rehearse it, I stillanalyze, reanalyze, because I'm
just worried that it will not begood enough.
So a sense of that having trustin yourself when you do your
(25:48):
good work you're done.
You're done, know when to let go.
Accept that so that I belong,I'm complete.
And the next one is that how doyou own your space, your arena?
And one of the exercises is andin fact, katy Perry, the pop
(26:12):
singer.
She has a song Roar.
I play that in my therapysession with my clients and I
would ask them show me your roarsong.
It doesn't matter what you say,but project your voice like as
if you're a lioness and you wantto show your roar.
A lioness and you want to showyour roar.
(26:34):
They hate it initially.
The reason is their voice wasconditioned always be in such a
level that you don't annoypeople, you don't alert people,
you just stay as a good girllevel and I tell them no,
whoever told you that?
They didn't see your power?
(26:55):
Project your voice and thereason you do that.
Your body remembers that.
Your body takes notice.
We can be strong, can be big,and you inherit this full power.
So, practicing, I am, I belongand I'm complete.
(27:16):
You go to really becoming fromthem.
You can still be very introvert, but you become a very powerful
person.
You own your space.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
I felt like you were talking to me specifically when
you talked about that song byKaty Perry.
Just last week I was at thistwo-day conference by Dr Bessel
van der Kolk, the author of theBody Keeps the Score, and one of
the exercises we were asked todo was to speak our name out
into our hands.
We speak our name out into ourhands, just cup our hands in
(27:53):
front of our mouth and say ourname In a room of 500 people.
The comment from thefacilitator was why is it that
so many of us have difficultysaying our own name out and
hearing it in our own voice?
Just hearing our voice, youknow, being mirrored back to us?
(28:14):
We're not comfortable with ourvoices.
We're not comfortable even withhearing our name.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
That's right.
That's right.
That's right Absolutely.
And part of that we talkedabout early childhood
development, which actuallythere's a pendulum swing in the
field of psychology is happeningabout earliest stages of life.
That is called when the motheror primary caregiver holds the
(28:46):
baby in her arms.
There's a process calledmirroring, that you hold the
baby in your arm and you'recalling the baby's name, like
Serena, John, lucas, what you'redoing, the baby says this is my
(29:07):
name, somebody says my name,and the way they say the name
Lucas, serena, the strength, thepower, the resonance, you, your
brain, remembers that this isme.
That's how you shape a sense ofinner strength.
There are many children grow up.
(29:28):
They don't have a resonance oftheir being seen, being
addressed and being invited.
Serena, how are you, sweetie?
They want to see you.
Just you know, like strokingyour face and validating that.
So to that, dr Bessel van derKolk, what it means.
(29:52):
We don't have an innerresonance, our name being
welcomed to this world.
And that's the work we need todo as adults.
Basically, we're reparentingourselves, we're reprogramming a
neurological response.
But this is me, this is my name.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
I'm here, I have the rights and I reclaim my space.
I love that description ofreparenting ourselves because I
think a lot of us listening tothis episode would be reflecting
on all the times in ourchildhood where we didn't feel
welcome, we didn't feel included, we didn't feel seen, we didn't
feel heard, and some of that isstill lingering in the body.
And then it shows up in allkinds of ways when we are out in
(30:47):
the world, when we are in ourprofessional capacity, and we
think that was my childhood,it's done with.
I'm grown up now.
But then it plays out again andagain in different ways.
And when we hold back we don'tshow up fully, we don't express
ourselves authentically, wedon't let people see who we
really are.
We show them a little bit.
We curate a lot, we filter alot, we put up the mask to keep
(31:09):
ourselves safe a lot.
We put up the mask to keepourselves safe and so people
don't really see the full extentof how amazing, how courageous,
how resilient, how creative,how resourceful, all the things
that we are.
We just show the world a littlebit because we are afraid.
You mentioned the shame, theguilt, that sense of I'm not
(31:30):
good enough in myself.
I'm not complete, so thereforeI always have to be doing
something more.
What is it that I need to domore, you know?
Should I work harder?
Should I present myself acertain way?
Should I go to more courses andlearn to develop my executive
presence and my charisma?
Should I speak louder?
Should I go for elocutionlessons?
So we keep trying to lookoutwards to fix for the solution
(31:55):
, maybe the medication, even.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Serena.
Something important to mentionwe feel bad when we try to be
more vocal, more assertive, youknow like, show our good part
and bring our inner talents,which we know we have, to the
world and we just go just a bitand we get apprehensive, we get
(32:23):
tongue-tied, we get anxious andwe fall back again and we say,
oh, it didn't work.
I need another training,another book, another therapy
sessions.
No, here's what's going on Inour body, in our nervous system,
which is the entire nervoussystem.
There's no such thing asbackspace, delete of our
(32:44):
emotions.
Once we have emotions that,especially if they happen early
in life, they're there foreverin our system.
What we need to do is createnew emotions so that, when there
are different situations, ournervous system and our behaviors
have alternative pathway ofcreating response.
(33:07):
And the way we do that, thejourney of growth, is journey of
restoration, that if we haven'texperienced something fully,
that we know what it looks like,we cannot wing it.
We can think about it, do it,but our body feels weird, it
doesn't feel natural.
(33:28):
So we need to create naturallyjoy-based, reinforcing types of
behavior.
And the way we do that we wantto practice a stronger way of
being more assertive, bolder,more boundaries, expressing love
(33:49):
or disapproval of people aroundus.
The way we need to do that, weneed to practice it.
We need to practice in smalldoses.
Literally got to be small in away that feels good and real for
us.
We can't judge, and that's thereason a lot of coaching they go
(34:10):
to a client and I've done this.
You know I'm guilty of the samething.
Give a client a big, thickbinder of 360 degree feedback
your strengths, yourdevelopmental feedback.
Let's set goals and come upwith the action step for next
week.
People come back.
(34:34):
They barely touched anythingand we think they are resisting.
They are not following through,they are procrastinating.
No, no, no To do anything.
You pick one action and youpractice it in a small dose.
You just don't go create actionplans, because by having data
doesn't mean behavior change.
(34:55):
We need to actually do it.
So we have what is called bodymemory.
This is what it looks like Forme to project my voice.
You need to actually projectyour voice.
How did it feel?
Oh, it feels anxious.
I feel weird.
All right, take a deep breath.
Take a deep breath, do it again.
(35:15):
Do it again so it starts tofeel more natural.
Hey, I like this.
You create body memory, then thenext session you make it even
bigger, you bring more color,you bring some powerful words,
you bring some assertive words.
So you create, create bodymemory.
So we need to create body first, brain, second behavioral
(35:36):
change.
Most of the therapy these dayscognitive behavior therapy or
coaching is based upon brainfirst, body next.
That, scientifically, isincorrect.
What we know from neurologybrain follows the body.
If you want to do something bigand bold we haven't done we
(35:58):
need to bring the body into theconversation, help expand it,
help get comfortable with beingsomething daring, something cool
, something bold, and we findjoy in it, and then we will do
it.
So bring your body, bring yourbeing into the conversation.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
So what you said was body first and brain second.
Yeah, because we've beenconditioned to think that the
brain is superior.
Anything that comes from thehead is good.
Therefore, more research, moreevidence, more data is superior.
Anything that comes from thehead is good.
Therefore, more research, moreevidence, more data is better,
but you're saying there's adisconnect.
The body actually leads.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
It leads.
The reason is this isevolutionary, as we're
developing as a species and thenas we come to this world.
We perceive things firstthrough our body, when brain is
still being formed.
What does it mean?
The way a mother holds the baby, the calmness of the mother's
(37:07):
presence, the way mother breeds,the way mother is available for
as long as the baby is there,that sends the signal of safety.
I'm welcomed, my protection.
So the way we hold the baby,your parents love it.
But what we're actually doingwe're creating an armor of
(37:28):
protection around the baby.
Almost the baby feels like inthe womb again.
So as we do that, the braincells start to open up and make
connection that I'm safe, I'mwelcome.
Our brain knows that throughthe body sensations.
Later on, words, if the words isatone, is gentle, is respectful
(37:53):
, can be very firm and critical.
Brain thinks that I'm learningand it's a safe environment.
So brain always looks to body.
Am I feeling safety?
Am I feeling the trust?
Am I feeling connection?
So those again, you know safety, trust and connection.
Brain opens up.
(38:13):
If we don't, brain goes tofight or flight and becomes very
getting work done, becomes verytense.
So create an environment thatwe feel safe, connected and
trusted brain opens up.
So that's the work we need todo For our introverted warriors.
(38:39):
Do you feel a sense of safetyin your body?
Do you feel a sense ofconnection to people around
yourself?
Do you feel a sense of trust?
Those are essential for you toshow up bigger and bolder.
If not, bring the work to youfirst, otherwise, whatever you
(39:01):
do will not last long and itdoesn't feel good.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
I like that you mentioned the importance of
feeling good, because thatphrase can sometimes be used to
make something seeminsignificant or trivial.
Oh, it's just about feeling good.
You know feelings, and sofeelings are to be discounted.
They're not as valuable as whatcomes from the brain, but we
(39:29):
are holistic beings, as youmentioned at the start of this
conversation.
So all of us, all parts of us,need to be on board and need to
be integrated and functioning ina healthy way, because what
affects one part affectseverything else, and I like how
you have summarized what we needto do.
For those of us who are parents, there is that element of
(39:52):
looking back to see where ourearly childhood conditioning has
affected us and thereforeaffected the way we project
ourselves and the way we parent,and so we need to parent our
own inner child, as it were,that younger version of
ourselves, attuning ourselves toour children in a different way
, unconditionally welcoming,bringing safety, because we know
(40:17):
it affects them, and that hasto start from from the womb or
even before because the child isabsorbing everything and their
and their brain development isaffected by how they are feeling
, whether whether they feel safe.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
That's right.
That's right.
This is so good, serena, whatyou mentioned.
This morning I was at my localgym.
I go there several times a weekto work out.
It's my way of staying healthy.
There was a woman next to mehadn't seen her before and after
the workout.
We were starting to talk andshe told me she's a marketing
leader in this community.
(40:53):
Her son goes to this school.
My son went to for high schooland I told her about my.
I'm a psychologist.
I asked her about the work thatI do and she said can I ask you
a question?
I said I know my parents.
My mother especially, wasdiagnosed with ADHD.
I know I have ADHD.
My two teenagers, a boy and agirl, they have ADHD.
(41:16):
So that's genetic, you know,I've been told.
Is that correct?
I said no, it's not.
Adhd is not genetic.
The ADHD is a learneddevelopmental behavior.
That the way we and I said.
The ADHD, the heart of that, isa brain that never found enough
secure and a stable connection.
(41:39):
It's the brain that is stilltrying to find a landing ground.
Is anybody seeing me?
Is anybody loving me?
Where is the security?
Predictability, safety come up.
Predictability, safety come up.
And I shared with you that whatwe know from the research,
(42:01):
especially from the traumapsychology, that the heart of
ADHD is anxiety.
It's an anxious body trying tofind stability.
And once you, dear neighbor,you arrive at yourself with a
different way of resetting theterm.
Clinical term is resetting yournervous system, so you're less
anxious, you're more tolerant ofyourself, you're more connected
(42:21):
.
You literally will see yourbrain, your ADHD brain that has
been very hyperactive,distracted and struggling with
executive functions, calms down,you have focus, you have longer
attention span and once you dothis, you can work with your
doctors, you can literally comeout of medications.
(42:44):
And that's the work I've beendoing with a number of teens and
adults that they had come toaccept that I'm ADHD, I'm
biodivergent, I can go throughwhole life taking medication.
No, it's a body that never didand finished developmental
growth.
And once we change which we canour children will be different.
(43:08):
We sit in a different homeenvironment.
Be different.
We sit in a different homeenvironment, so we can this is
going to the field ofgenerational patterning we can
change what we learn from ourparents, or children have a
different experience growing up.
Speaker 1 (43:27):
I feel, dr Adesha, we will need to have another
conversation with you, becauseyou've just started talking
about ADHD and how it is learnedand not genetic, and you talked
about generational patterningand how we can, in a sense,
break the cycle by changing theway we are so that our children
can change, and that's going togive a lot of hope to parents
(43:49):
who are listening to, parentswho are struggling at the moment
with so many issues theinfluence of social media, the
school system, children'sdevelopmental needs, the way
children cope and parents' ownstruggles, and some days it can
just feel overwhelming.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
It is and you use the term hope.
As a psychologist, I getfrustrated with psychologists
that the answer when somebodyshares I'm depressed, anxious,
obsessive, compulsive, so on, isthat you need medication, you
need treatment and you need tosee certain hours of therapy.
(44:32):
We forget to explain to ourclients what exactly is
depression, what is anxiety,what's really behind this,
beyond symptoms?
Because once you understand whywe act and feel the way we do,
once you understand the newscience, the journey of healing
(44:54):
is restoration.
We literally is reverseengineering.
Depression can be reversed,anxiety can be reversed.
The ADHD, obsessive, compulsive,these they do not need to be
lifelong patterns.
What will happen those patterns, especially if they develop
(45:19):
early in life?
They will always will be there,but we can learn, noticing.
How do we go to that distractedmind, practices to reset it,
reframe it and come out of itagain, so we can do self-manage
rather quickly and then whenthat happens, episode of coming
(45:44):
out of it will be faster and westay in that deeper.
The reason this is importantfor those who read my book I
struggled with depression for solong.
So did my mom, dad, mygrandparents, my brothers,
sisters, and I had come toaccept that I will die with
(46:05):
depression as a part of me whenI healed myself based upon seven
emotional needs.
So people ask me so, arashir,you're not depressed anymore?
I still have to tell them I'mnot clinically depressed anymore
, but I know depression and Iknow when I go to a depressive
(46:25):
mood, versus being depressed,that always means there's
something going on.
I'm playing small, I'm notsolving some life problem, I'm
ignoring a conversation with acolleague, with my spouse, and
basically it means I'm ignoringthings.
So I'm becoming to a victimmode.
So when I see that I catch mybreath, I go take a nap, go run,
(46:50):
play around with the goldenretriever and come back and face
what I've been avoiding.
Once you do that, thatdepressive mood dissipates and I
use that depression anxiety asa signal that, arash, you're not
(47:10):
doing living, you're just beingvictim, you're just avoiding.
So there's hope, massive hopefor people who struggle with the
so-called emotional struggles,and you can come out of it.
Speaker 1 (47:27):
I think that is the single most beautiful empowering
message from our conversationtoday, dr Adeshia, and I really
want to express my appreciationfor the way you've articulated
what is it that we are goingthrough, why we don't have to
suffer silently or just accept alifetime of medication as the
(47:50):
only solution.
What are some of the practicalthings we can do?
I love that you emphasize theimportance of practice, because
that means there is something wecan do and it doesn't have to
be a big thing.
I like calling it micro actionsfor my clients, because the
actions themselves can be toooverwhelming when you've been
stuck for a long time.
But micro actions, if I canscale it back to something I can
(48:12):
do right now, today or in thismoment, something really small,
really achievable.
If I can do that, then I can dothe next thing, and then I can
do the next thing and I canbuild my capacity, and it
doesn't have to be all at onceand it doesn't have to overwhelm
my nervous system so I canexert some control.
I still have that autonomy and Ithink that is very empowering,
(48:35):
because we don't choose to bevictims.
I think we unconsciously becomevictims and we assume that
that's how we will always be andthat's how we always feel.
But what you're saying is, no,we can reset, we can re-regulate
ourselves, we can re-parentourselves.
So there is so much that we cando as parents, as guardians, as
(48:58):
carers, as educators, as peoplewho are just interested in
human nature and being betterversions of ourselves, I think.
So I've loved this conversationtoday and your seven emotional
needs the healthy version versusmaybe the current version that
we are in, and we can see thegap, we can see what we need to
(49:22):
be, and it sounds to me likeit's like a journey home to our
true selves.
I think when we were children weprobably had a greater
recognition, though we didn'thave the language for it.
We had a greater recognition ofwhat that felt like.
But as we grew older and westarted getting distracted and
(49:45):
pursuing external objectives alot more, we lost that
connection back to ourselves.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
That's right.
I love that, serena.
You mentioned about journeycoming home.
That's right.
(50:08):
I love that, serena, youmentioned about journey coming
home.
One of the hobbies that I have,I love to restore old wood
furniture.
So I go like through thesummertime there are garage sale
or people who throw away oldfurniture some from decades ago
and old furniture when you getthem.
Over the years they've been putlayers of wax, varnish and
paint and I really slowly, withdifferent solution, with
different sanding, I just removeeverything that was put on the
furniture, on that piece of oakwood that from 1920 as a way to
(50:33):
make it look beautiful.
But once you take all thethings that they were unnatural,
you see this wood, this door,this chair.
It is beautiful as it came, wasmade from the original tree.
To me, healing is the same thingThrough the early life,
conditioning the people we growup with, the language, the
(50:59):
emotional, good girl, bad girl,duties, don't do that.
We get a lot of layers ofthings that they made us not be
ourselves, that they made us notbe ourselves, that we feel when
we actually have mentalstruggles, we feel caged.
We all feel there's a part ofme.
I don't even feel it.
(51:21):
The world doesn't feel it, butI feel it.
I feel it in my body.
I just feel that I'msuffocating.
The work is get rid ofeverything that was put on you
of irrational expectation, thelanguage, the labels, the
burdens, so that you get toreparent, recreate the you for
(51:43):
today, for this day, what I'mtalking about.
We don't even need to go andspend a lot of time.
How did this happen?
Early life experiences, thejourney, and this is the work
that you know Basil Van Der Kolktalks about the journey of
creation.
Reparenting happens right now,today, where you are, what are
(52:06):
you sensing?
What feels real?
What feels is extra layer.
Sensing what feels real, whatfeels is extra layer.
Start to own and recreate ajoy-based, a tiny part of you
that feels real.
And it feels real when you dosomething real.
You know it, you feel it, itfeels ah, this feels good, this
(52:30):
feels like, this feelseffortless.
So that's how we recreate a newreality right now.
And the good thing is we can doit over and over.
There are many times when youdo this journey things don't go
well.
I wish it was better, longer,felt, more, joyful, Good.
Take a deep breath, do it again.
Do it tomorrow, do it again wecan always practice again, thank
(52:56):
you so much, dr Adesha.
Speaker 1 (52:58):
So, for those of us who are listening, I encourage
you to buy the book.
You're Not Depressed, you AreUnfinished.
It's available on Amazon.
Look up Dr Adesha on LinkedIn,where he's very active and
always sharing quality contenton mental health, mental
wellness and how we can reparentourselves.
And if you've enjoyed thisepisode, rate and review it on
(53:20):
your listening platform as well,so that the Quiet Warrior
podcast can get in front of moreintroverts and quiet achievers
around the world.
Thank you so much, dr AdeshaMehran, for joining us today.
Thank you so much, serena, andthank you so much, dr Adishan
Miran for joining us today.
Speaker 2 (53:31):
Thank you so much, serena, and thank you so much
for your listeners and I wishyou well.
There's always hope.
Accept hope.
Don't accept that if you have astruggle, it's not a death
sentence or life sentence.
There's always hope.
Speaker 1 (53:49):
I'm so grateful that you're here today.
If you found this contentvaluable, please share it on
your social media channels andsubscribe to the show on your
favorite listening platform.
Together, we can help moreintroverts thrive.
To receive more upliftingcontent like this, connect with
me on Instagram at Serena LoQuiet Warrior Coach.
(54:09):
Thank you for sharing your timeand your energy with me.
See you on the next episode.
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