In this insightful episode of The Quiet Warrior Podcast, Serena speaks with Elizabeth Williamson, a relationship coach, trauma-informed facilitator, and leadership mentor who has spent over two decades helping individuals, couples, and leaders navigate conflict, repair trust, and communicate with courage.
Elizabeth brings a wealth of experience from psychology, somatic therapy, and systemic constellations to teach us how to hold respectful, clear, and boundary-honouring conversations—especially when the stakes feel high.
In this episode, we explore:
- What makes conflict feel threatening—and how to work through the nervous system’s response
- Why silence and people-pleasing often stem from trauma, not weakness
- How to prepare for a difficult conversation with presence, clarity, and respect
- The role of resilience and emotional regulation in sustainable leadership
- What it means to hold both compassion and boundaries in relationships
- Why conflict, when handled well, can actually strengthen connection
- Practical tools for self-awareness, repair, and relational safety
Whether you're a quiet achiever navigating leadership, or someone working to improve your personal relationships, this episode will help you move through conflict with more confidence and care.
Connect with Elizabeth:
Website: https://elizabethwilliamsonsolutions.com
LinkedIn: Elizabeth Williamson on LinkedIn
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This episode was edited by Aura House Productions
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Serena Loh.
If you're used to hearing thatintroverts are shy, anxious,
antisocial and lack goodcommunication and leadership
skills, then this podcast is foryou.
You're about to fall in lovewith the calm, introspective and
profound person that you are.
Discover what's fun, unique andpowerful about being an
(00:21):
introvert, and how to make theelegant transition from quiet
achiever to quiet warrior inyour life and work anytime you
want, in more ways than youimagined possible.
Welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Welcome to the Quiet Warrior podcast.
Our guest today has over 40years expertise in relationship
skills and conflict resolution,with individual, family and
leadership responsibilities.
That focuses on the skills andresources you need to remain
calm, have clarity andpositively resolve business and
(01:08):
personal relationship stress,disputes and conflicts.
She has a passion for workingwith female founders and women
in leadership to help them honetheir personal insights and
practical approaches toconfidently navigate difficult
conversations and buildresilient, respectful
relationships.
(01:28):
Welcome Elizabeth Williamson tothe Quiet Warrior podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Thank you, serena.
I'm delighted to be here, it'sa real pleasure.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Elizabeth, tell us about your background and your
professional journey, and whatdrew you into the work you now
do.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Okay, so my background is in social work and
I am old enough to have, youknow, graduated last century,
late last century, and I startedworking community development,
working with a group of women toset up a community centre in a
new housing development.
And what I discovered was and Ithink it was a great idea
(02:04):
there'd a new housingdevelopment and what I
discovered was you know, I thinkit was a great idea there'd be
lots of enthusiasm.
And what I discovered was thatcommittees are full of arguments
.
And then, of course, there werearguments between the committee
of women developing thecommunity centre and the
government department that wasbuilding a childcare centre next
door, the kindergarten, andthere was conflict with the
council I was working with whenI'd put up an idea and different
(02:27):
things would happen.
And I was, you know, builtpersonality disputes on that
committee and as the projectprogressed and became more
successful, the women involvedin the committee and involved in
the volunteer groups would havebattles at home with their
(02:47):
husbands, because the next roundof arguments were about not
being home enough to cook dinnerand be a good, you know, mother
or wife.
And this is the 1980s.
So I found myself in a middleof conflict with no idea what to
do really no idea and fumblingalong and half the time thinking
(03:10):
, oh my God, I've got it wrong.
I found myself, I guess, in myteens.
If I look back to my personallife, I was always in the middle
of arguments because I wasquite good at being opinionated
and stubborn and not listening.
So not a good set of skills,despite all my great social work
(03:33):
values, to lead them tocommunity work.
And as I pursued my career, Ijust was either in the forefront
of conflict, because I workedwith Vietnam veterans for a
while, setting up a men's shedproject, and I was representing
the Department of VeteranAffairs as a consultant.
(03:54):
So that put me in the midst ofa very long-standing conflict
between Vietnam veterans and thegovernment, with a lot of
people who were very traumatisedby war and conflict, and the
government with a lot of peoplewho were very traumatised by war
and conflict.
And then I later worked leadinga domestic violence service.
So there I was, at theforefront of family violence and
(04:17):
what that means for children aswell, and I also discovered
there's a right timing forthings.
So we were trying to beinnovative in our organisation
and we were trying to set up acharitable fund, we thought we
would raise the issue ofdomestic violence as a human
rights issue, and the feministstructure of women's shelters at
(04:42):
that time were not happy withfeminism not being at the
forefront.
So I found I was in the middleof a dispute with other domestic
violence services and wheneverI tried to innovate something,
ego got involved, status gotinvolved, and I'm finding myself
in conflict with my colleaguesand I also did not, and I think
(05:03):
I was burned out and I did notmanage probably my staff
relationships well either.
And so there was, I hadconflict there as well.
Um, that that led to um, reallyburning out and breaking down
and, uh, quite a journey back tofinding what is that, what is
it that I do well, and anddiscovering that that's
(05:25):
something that I've done alongthe way, which is working as a
therapist and my sort ofin-between the Vietnam veterans
in the community centre.
When my children were very, veryyoung, I was sort of
hand-hunted to do somecounselling work at the time
when adult survivors of sexualabuse were just.
(05:46):
That was just becoming apriority and you know people
were looking for a skilledapproach to that.
So I worked a lot in that areain community health, and went on
to do some other things, butwhat I discovered is that I am
(06:06):
actually, at heart, best atherapist where I can help
people understand internalconflict first.
You know the arguments we havewith ourselves, because that's
what I was always battling.
Like all these externalarguments, I realised, hold on
hold on.
There's an internal argumentthat someone's having and I
(06:26):
can't resolve, and they'reeither struggling with it or
they're throwing it around theroom and wanting someone else to
solve the problem.
You know that.
Um.
So insight and awareness ofawareness and self-compassion
are incredibly importantconflict resolution skills, and
I longed to learn how to work inrelationship conflict.
(06:48):
So I studied with, I had thevery privilege to study for
about three years with John andJulie Gottman, who founded the
Gottman Institute, and their 40years of research into couples
therapy, couples, conflicts.
What leads to success in arelationship, what leads to
relationship failure in families, is outstanding and, um,
(07:12):
multidisciplinary, and thatprovided, uh me with a whole
skill set that that now theirwork is now being applied to
workplaces.
So along the way, once I foundI found counselling was a good
place for me to be.
I worked with in commercialpsychology, we worked in
(07:34):
workplaces, employee assistanceprograms, and so I was talking
to people about their workplaceconflicts and then I was
coaching managers and leadersabout handling workplace
conflicts, and I was fortunateto train as a mediator during
that time so that I couldfacilitate conversations about
(07:54):
complex conflicts and helpleaders assess conflict dynamics
and what would be goodapproaches, and that was great
work.
My life sort of took a huge turnin 2012 when I was diagnosed
with luckily a benign tumour inmy spinal cord quite high in my
(08:20):
neck C3, so it's only a coupleof vertebrae that function, and
then everything else is reallycompromised in my body and that
led me to have to learn to walkagain.
I had surgery to remove thetumour.
I actually learned to walk andI entered into a life of another
sort of conflict, which is madewith gravity now, but also with
(08:44):
understanding that we don'tneed a disability-friendly
workplace.
Workplaces are notdisability-friendly most of them
.
They're not really inclusive inmany, many ways, and certainly
this is about 13 years ago.
I encountered barrier afterbarrier to continue to be able
to work in a way that wasflexible for myself and worked
(09:09):
for the companies.
It was hard to find a job.
I tripped my last job I trippedby doing a video interview,
they offered me the job and then, once I had accepted, I said by
the way, I have a disabilityand I will need some assistance
with a chair.
There's a government fund whereyou can apply for that.
It'll cost you nothing.
Could you apply?
And they did nothing.
(09:32):
So I think I spent the firstfive weeks of that job in a
remote office carrying a $2Bunnings gardening chair to sit
in, because it was the onlychair I could sit in, carrying
it in and out, and I don't walkvery well.
So interesting points ofconflict.
You know, sometimes we seeinstitutionalised or cultural or
(09:57):
just the myopic conflict oforganisations bent on doing what
they always do and not beingflexible.
So that's been a journey, ajourney to get to where I am now
.
Over the last 17 years I'vegone from side hustle.
I now have my own businesswhere I consult with couples and
work with family businesses anddo leadership training as well.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yeah, Thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
That's quite a long story.
That's all of it.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Yes, yes, and so many elements that I was noticing,
because my question to you wouldhave been what are the root
causes of conflict?
And I think you alluded to someof them.
You mentioned personalitydifferences, you mentioned ego,
you mentioned timing and contextand just the nature of change.
People don't like change, dothey?
(10:48):
So that by itself causesconflict.
And you said, when environmentsare inflexible, if they haven't
envisaged this kind ofsituation or there's no sop for
it, no one's ever done thisbefore.
This is how we've always donethings.
It's almost like there's thisreluctance to go out and be that
(11:08):
first person or that firstorganisation that creates a new
way of handling this novelsituation, as in your case, with
a chair.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Most conflicts are about.
What you feel like you'rearguing about is the surface
issue and why conflict is sohard to resolve.
It's very hard for us to get towhat the real longing is, the
real purpose is.
So we fight at the tip of theiceberg, if you like, over the
top 10%, obvious things, withouthaving the knowledge or skills
(11:42):
to get to the real issues thebreaches of trust, the boundary
issues, the values or theethical issues that people are
struggling with.
And I think you know theGottman's research is quite
profound and they have a coupleof very useful, very simple
(12:04):
models.
But what their research foundwas that most interpersonal
relationships, most intimaterelationships, solve about one
third of their problems together, by conversation, compromise,
you know, collaboration, andtwo-thirds of their conflicts
continue throughout therelationship.
So successful relationshipswork out how to deal with
(12:28):
problems in positive ways, witha positive perspective, knowing
that you know I can have thisdifficult conversation, or I can
manage my own emotions aboutthis, or I can have empathy for
you, and that will lead us to anoutcome where we both are
satisfied.
There's some give and take inthere.
(12:52):
Many people approach conflict asif it shouldn't be there and
they're very negatively focused.
So they can predict, you knowall the things that are going to
go wrong in the argument or inthe situation, and then they
actually go and do things whichdemonstrably don't work, don't
lead them in the direction thatthey want to go in in the
(13:14):
situation, and they repeat it,even though it didn't work last
time.
They do it again and again, notknowing what else to do,
obviously, but but also thentrying to blame someone else or
blame themselves for thesituation which which doesn't
work.
So if we accept that conflictis inevitable, that's a good
(13:37):
starting point.
And the next starting point isthe conflict.
Drama is at the center of whatit is to be human, because it's
the centre of every story thatwe tell.
You know, you think about thebooks you love to read, the TV
shows where you immerse yourselfand binge there we conflict.
(13:58):
Romantic comedy is all aboutboy meets girl, boy loses girl.
There's the conflict.
Boy finds girl again, oranother girl, or something
happens.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Even when you watch comedy, comedians are using
conflict to drive us to laugh sowhat you're saying is conflict
cannot be avoided and weshouldn't be trying to avoid it,
because it's central to whatmakes us human yeah, yeah, it's
true, um, it's not a comfortableexperience and um, we don't
(14:36):
teach in our culture, uh, herein australia, um, very effective
ways of managing conflict.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
um, we don't teach enough curiosity about what's
you know, we, we, we look forvery binary ways of thinking
right, wrong, good, bad, you, me, they, us, you know, fall blame
and we get stuck in ways ofthinking firstly about ourselves
(15:06):
and the conversations we havewith ourselves about a conflict
situation and then not reallylearning those skills.
I think it's where quietleadership has a particular
beautiful edge of reallyunderstanding somebody else's
perspective, because you knowthe real skill in managing
(15:27):
conflict well is to be curiousabout other people's points of
view.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Yes, I think there is a lot of value in that empathy,
the ability to sit withsomebody else's point of view
without making it about us,without making it as as though,
because they have a differentpoint of view, they are not like
me and therefore we are not thesame, which is that binary kind
(15:55):
of perspective you werealluding to earlier.
So how do we expand our abilityto, to welcome or to be open to
more different perspectives?
Speaker 3 (16:09):
well, I think.
You know, I think for peoplewho, um, who are quiet warriors,
quite leaders, who want toobservational, reflective,
slower style, there's so manyassets.
You know, that ability toobserve and watch.
(16:31):
If you have a framework foryour conflict through that you
can be, it's such a powerfulplace to sit in a dispute where
you, let's say, you're in abusiness environment where
there's more than one person.
So when you sit back and watchthe dynamic and you're listening
carefully and you're curious,you manage your own anxiety well
(16:54):
enough to be curious about thedifferent points in the room.
You can be the person that can.
You know critical moments?
Just just introduce, um, asummary of what's being said and
and and identify a point wherepeople have agreed and a kernel
(17:14):
of where they've disagreed, andthen ask that, ask a question
that might just lead to moreconversation at a different
level.
So that first part is to manageyour own anxiety around
conflict so that we can be calmand centred.
So in my approach, I thinkthere are six key skills, and
(17:35):
certainly being centred is oneof them, and the other one is to
know the clues to understandthe dynamics of conflict so that
when you're, when you're tryingto reflect on for yourself or
you're trying to understandsomebody else.
You have a framework to piecetogether pieces of evidence and
information rather than be stuckwith your emotional response
(17:57):
and, you know, stuck with thefact that human beings are
irrational beings as well asrational beings.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
That is a very interesting paradox.
You're right, we are bothrational and irrational.
I think Dan really calls itpredictably irrational.
That's what we humans are.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
Yeah, yes, so what you said is manage our own
anxiety first.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Manage our emotions first, and then also to know the
clues.
What are these clues about?
Speaker 3 (18:28):
So let's come back to that, the idea that conflict's
inherent in us as human beingsand how we see the world, and
it's in how we tell stories.
And when you think about anargument that you might have had
with someone or a disagreement,you'll have a story about that.
You'll have a in your head,you'll be playing it.
Well, I said this and then theydid that, and this is what
(18:51):
should have happened, or what Iwanted to have happened, or why
didn't they see it my way, oryou know, we'll be telling
ourselves a story and everystory has three parts to it.
It has because it's based onour stress response.
It has a sense of there's athreat, so something might
punish us.
There's um, a fear, so we feela bit of a victim and we want to
(19:15):
escape and and hide, and so wewant someone to come and rescue
the situation, so that thatfight, flight, freeze, which is
our innate response to stress,is our first response, the
energy that comes with thosethat in that innate response is
(19:37):
emotional.
So it's anger or fight, youknow, and that's just positive
energy.
That's energy towards, towardsa.
So it's anger or fight, youknow, and that's just positive
energy, that's energy towards aproblem.
It's neither good nor bad, it'sjust doing something towards
the problem.
And we learn about how tomanage our stress responses and
how conflict works in ourfamilies.
So in our families we can learn, you know, that anger is a
(19:57):
dangerous thing to show, orforbidden, or disallowed or
ignored, you know, and so it canbe quite and particularly for
women, very difficult to bringforth your anger in a way that
you feel is going to berespected, and that you feel
comfortable with Fear.
(20:18):
We're more familiar with fearfor women, and fear is that
sense of I'm a victim here, so Ijust want to get away.
You know, I want to avoid theconflict.
I feel very small in thissituation.
It feels overwhelming.
Um, I just, I just want to getout the room, like I want to get
away as fast as I can and andthat'll solve everything, which
of course it doesn't.
But but when we're so, thenwhen we feel overwhelmed with a
(20:43):
conflict situation and we wantto run away, we feel small and
the problem feels bigger than us.
Then we look for rescuing.
That is the freeze part of thestress response from fight,
flight and freeze, and that's abit like I want to hide.
And if I hide, the problem,sort of go away.
(21:05):
And that works in a couple ofways.
One, it means well, I wantsomeone else to fix this, I'm
going to do nothing and it'ssomebody else's responsibility.
Or there's this.
The contradictory position ismy God, it's all my
responsibility, I have to doeverything to fix this.
And that just leads you to fallback into either one of the
(21:29):
other two positions of either ohmy God, I feel like I'm being
punished, it's all my fault,everyone's angry at me.
Or I'm angry at me so I'm backinto the anger space.
Or, oh my God, I'm frightened,I just want to run away me.
So I'm back into the angerspace.
Or, oh my god, I'm frightened,you know, I just want to run
away again.
I'm back in the victim space.
So when we get caught in thedrama of conflict, it's a closed
system.
There's no real way out.
(21:50):
But everybody in a conflictsituation is has an element of
that they're playing with.
So you might feel like you'rethe victim here.
You can't speak, it's awful,it's totally unfair, you're not
being valued.
But I can guarantee someoneelse in the room will think that
that's their, that's what'shappening for them, and somebody
(22:13):
else should fix this up forthem, and maybe that's you or
they're saying well, if only youspoke up, things would be
better so that you know you getto be the person who's punishing
the situation or the personwho's rescuing the situation.
That dynamic is very confusing,so that's why conflict is so
complex, because everyone has adifferent story and the first
(22:36):
clue is to understand thateveryone is telling that victim
punishment, rescue storydifferently, from their
perspective.
And if you can watch that, youcan understand much more about
how people see you, but whatthey're really struggling with,
and you can choose to step outof that dynamic and do something
(22:56):
different.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
So what I'm saying, what I'm hearing from you, is
there needs to be that level ofself-awareness for me to step
out, because when I'm caught upin a conflict, usually I can't
see it.
I'm caught up in the heat ofthe moment, with all the
emotions.
I'm feeling defensive, I'mfeeling fearful, I'm feeling
small and overwhelmed, which youmentioned and maybe a part of
(23:20):
me is angry as well and wants tofight back.
What about introverts, whogenerally tend to be people
pleasers and are very conflictavoidant?
How would they be responding ina situation like this?
Speaker 3 (23:35):
So that people pleasing fits beautifully into
that rescue mode, that model,that mode I should say.
You know so if I'm a peoplepleaser, then I might feel like
it's my responsibility to makeeverybody happy.
It's my responsibility to takeon the extra load.
It's my responsibility to fixthis.
I don't want to see anyone.
My challenge is other people'sdiscomfort, and so I try and
(24:00):
solve my own discomfort thatsomeone else is unhappy by
trying to fix things, by tryingto say the right thing, make
them happy, not speak upcompromise, give up what's
important to me in order toreduce the stress in the
(24:20):
situation, calm myself down andmake everybody happy, right?
Of course I'm going to getresentful about that, so I'm
going to feel that anger andthen I'm going to feel trapped
by that.
I'm going to feel like I'm avictim.
So we can't escape that dynamic.
The other one is where I don'tthink I should have to do
(24:40):
anything.
I want to hide.
Someone else should fix this.
It's not my responsibility, umand uh, but most people pleasing
is is doing too much and I, Iin my model, um.
The first step is to know thoseclues.
First of all, a conflict ispart of everyone's story.
(25:01):
It, it's actually what makeslife interesting.
It's in our books, it's in ourmovies, it's in our songs, you
know, it's in comedy.
So we could bring more humourand more curiosity and it'll
make it a safer place to be.
Secondly, if we can manage ouremotions and stay calm and
(25:21):
centered, then we can read thoseclues better and we are a more
valuable contributor toresolving things.
Because if we, if you can calmyourself down, um, our wonderful
mirror neurons in our beautifulbrains work, so people will
mirror you calming down.
(25:42):
So if you remain the calmperson, even though you don't
like conflict, even though youprefer this not to be happening,
but you regulate your breath,you slow your heart rate down by
regulating your breath and youjust keep your feet planted and
say I'm going to be present,nothing moves me, then you get
the third skill that I teach,which is to do less and be more.
(26:05):
The less energy.
This is so valuable for someonewho's introverted, because in a
conflict there's all this stuffflying around, all this energy,
all these words.
Well, if you're the person whodoes less and is more present,
that's an incredibly strongcontribution, because
(26:28):
conciseness is really important.
And so that's the third thing Iteach is conciseness Perfect?
If you're an introvert, in aconflict, people will hear very
little of what is said.
The inner conflict people willhear very little of what is said
.
There'll be a lot of thingsdone and said, but very little
will be taken by somebody.
(26:49):
If your heart rate is elevatedOnce your heart rate's in the
80s, 90s, your vision literallybecomes narrower, your ability
to process auditory informationis impacted and your rational
skills are decreased.
And so you know, a smile mightlook like a sneer and sorry will
(27:14):
sound sarcastic.
And if you hit 100, then you'lljust feel like you're being
manipulated and you'll have notrust in the situation
whatsoever and be emotionallyflooded and the conflict will
escalate.
So you manage your emotionswell and stay calm, keep your
heart rate low, you guide otherpeople in the same way, but also
(27:34):
you get to be concise.
Small things are useful andthat ability to listen that is
so critical at this point.
If you can listen and letsomeone know that you understand
their perspective, then don'tneed to put yours in a box for a
little while, because you'llgain influence by someone, the
(27:59):
other person believing that youunderstand their perspective and
that you can demonstrate thatyou make it tangible.
And that's the skill oflistening and repeating back
what you hear, so that what thatdoes is creates another loop
for the person who's speaking tohear their own words, reprocess
(28:20):
them so that deepens what'sgoing on.
But it creates more trust.
Oh well, yes, I did say that.
Or oh now, well, actually, Ithink this, you know, I can go
to a slightly different position.
Or, oh, you're so right, youput that even better than I
could.
And if you can validate, itmakes validate that person's
(28:42):
perspective before you put yourown, then you gain a lot of
influence, and so, particularlyfor people who are people
pleasers, that's a great skillto learn, because you don't have
to put your own self first, youjust are saying let me
understand you.
And that's a rare experience.
(29:03):
Often do we have someone in ourlife who, in a conflict or in
any conversations that you know,responds by oh.
So you think this, serena, thisis really important to you.
It's a, you know, quiet, worryissue is something that fills
your whole life and you know,tell me more about the podcast
interviews you whole life.
And you know, tell me moreabout the podcast interviews
you've been having.
(29:24):
You know.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
Tell me more about you.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
That happens rare.
Mainly, we say, oh, it's great,you're doing a podcast.
Let me tell you about the lastpodcast I heard, or the podcast
I'm planning, or the lastinterview I had, you know, which
doesn't build trust.
So there's so much strength inthat introverted skill of
listening first, and then theskill is to speak up and
(29:50):
summarise what you hear, becauseit will slow everything down.
You've got to slow everythingdown and then so I can see your
point.
I can see your point of view.
You think that you know,because this issue has been
brought up five times in thelast month and we haven't been
able to progress it, and youfeel like the barrier is this,
(30:12):
that and the other, and theresolution you would like is
this From your perspective, Ican understand why you see it
like that.
You haven't put an opinion in,you just said I can see why you
see it like that.
You haven't put an opinion in,you just said I can see your
perspective.
It gives you the chance to thennegotiate more clearly, to
communicate what you want to say.
(30:33):
Because you've got listeningnow and slowing things down.
You can say, from yourperspective, understanding that
from my perspective it's likethis and you can describe your
perspective.
That's hard, I think, whenyou're introverted, to say these
(30:54):
things, but that's the platewhere we deal with our fear,
that's where we find our courage.
And I think introverted peoplewho, you know, don't like
(31:15):
conflict which is good we shouldnot like.
I mean it's inevitable, but wedon't like it.
If you do like conflict, youhave a problem.
We should not like I mean, it'sinevitable, but we don't like
it.
If you do like conflict, youhave a problem, and introverted
people who don't like conflict.
That ability to just calm, it'sokay.
I actually can do somethingpositive here and I don't take
on anybody else's distress, soboundaries are really important.
(31:35):
I'm not taking on anybodyelse's distress.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
I can observe things and I have to keep calming
myself down, so don't take itall what I heard you say is that
the introvert's gift is inbeing able to regulate
themselves, first by calmingthemselves and then calming
(32:03):
others, by projecting that samekind of calm, quiet energy
outwards, and also being able totake that step back and use
their natural quiet strengths oflistening, of empathy, of
sensitivity, of compassion andhelping somebody feel heard,
because nothing is as quick todeflate someone as realizing
(32:25):
hang on, they're not arguingwith me, they're actually
listening to me.
They just said what is it thatI said a moment ago, which means
they are listening and payingattention.
So now I feel seen and I feelheard.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
so that and deeply respected.
There's nothing more respected.
So you know, then, and then youcome to act out of value, your
values, which is very hard inconflict.
Because you know that, becauseyou know when, when we tell the
story, when we're in a conflict,and you tell the story to
yourself, you're right, right,yes, we're always right, we're
(33:02):
the victim.
So in most conflicts peoplecompete to be the victim, yes.
And so once you understand thatas a clue, then you watch.
Ah, now some people, once theysee that dynamic happening, they
do like to punish it.
They believe that forcefulness,authoritarianism, that they are
(33:25):
right and nobody else shouldoccupy that space.
You get a lot of 10% of thepopulation really do like
conflict, even if they say theydon't, and they will introduce
conflict in situations.
So we do need to work out howto do it with high-conflict
people.
But the natural tendency forintroverts of that empathy, that
(33:47):
sensitivity, that slowingthings down, that request to
slow things down, like beingassertive about slowing things
down is invaluable.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
I like that you call it assertiveness asserting that
you are going to slow thingsdown, letting people know that
this is what you're doing andhaving those strong boundaries,
Because I know a lot ofintroverts who would avoid even
having that interaction.
They would back away, theywould feel I'm not in the right
(34:27):
place.
I can't deal with this.
I don't have the capacity totake on all this angst and all
this anger and all this energy,this kind of aggression.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
Look, yes, and I also think it's quite okay to let
people know your tolerance level.
I think it's totallyappropriate to say in a
situation the level of tensionhere is not helpful and I really
(35:01):
think we need to reduce this inorder for me to participate.
Can we please be the person whospeaks for the boundaries?
Can we talk respectfully?
Can we do this in a way thateveryone can be heard?
Yes, and also, do not strivefor solutions.
(35:22):
Strive for understanding first.
So the first part of a conflictconversation is often just
working at what does everybodythink and realising.
Well, we actually agree here onthis one thing and we disagree
over here, and we've been havinga tit-for-tat argument about
(35:42):
how we argue, how we talk aboutthings.
We've missed the deeper issuehere that we're both on the same
team about getting thisparticular outcome or, in our
relationship, we're both on thesame team about how we want to
raise and deal with screen timewith kids.
You know, probably a commonproblem for lots of parents, or
(36:07):
we're not.
We see it so differently.
You know, our ideas aboutscreen time and kids in
discipline are very different.
Based on what right, what havewe learnt from kids, and our
view of what happens in meetingsis often quite different, based
on how we see power working inan organisation, our preference
(36:31):
for hierarchy working in anorganisation, our preference for
hierarchy.
But you know, quiet leadersbring room for emotional
intelligence and I think in aconflict you only have to choose
to lead one thing.
Take a small aspect that youwant to strive for.
(36:53):
Don't try and do it all,because that's overwhelming.
Pick one thing, one area youwould like to champion, or to
lead in or to assert, so thatyour energy is directed into one
thing that you find important,rather than taking it all on.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
So that's to do with managing your capacity, being
aware of what limitations youmight have in that sense, so not
overburdening yourself, nottaking on too much and that is
again to do with boundaries,isn't it and also self-respect,
as in I respect that I have thislimitation, I'm aware of it and
(37:40):
I'm not going to overloadmyself.
I'm going to be veryintentional and careful.
I'm just going to pick onething to champion and I'm not
taking all the responsibility on.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
That's right, and also understand that that's a
valuable skill to have.
By choosing to just to work onone thing, I'm going to lead in
this one era.
I'm going to work with this oneaspect, um, um, I'm going to
let the people up here fight.
I don't have to get involved inthat.
(38:10):
That.
That may have nothing to dowith me.
This is the area I want toprogress and in progressing this
particular issue, um, inlooking after my own again, this
conciseness of energy, I onlyhave so much energy and I need
to plan for the energy it takesafter a difficult conversation.
(38:32):
Everybody needs to plan forthat, by the way, whether you're
an introvert or extrovert,because you know we go and
process, we walk out and thinkand feel, and you know stress
levels rise two to three daysafter difficult and challenging
situations.
So we need to have self-careplans and we need to check in so
(38:52):
that we can make sure we're notgetting caught in our story
again of being victim.
But try and explore.
Well, how can I be useful here?
And so you know, from a fear wefind courage, so that victim,
everyone's doing it, greater orlesser degrees.
(39:14):
But if I choose not to do that,then I'm going to have to
explore what it means to havesome courage.
Courage means I can sit with myfear and calm myself at the
same time and then choose to actabout what's important to me or
important for the team, andunderstanding that a small
contribution may progress thingsfar more profoundly than trying
(39:38):
to do something big.
So small things done often inrelationships are more powerful
than big gestures, and sointroverted people have that
skill again, that sensitivity tounderstand the small and so
being consistent.
You know I sometimes say strivefor 10% change.
(40:01):
Be surprised how consistentlyyou can make things happen with
just this piece of 10% here.
This piece of 10% here.
That'll add up if you'reconsistent and then you become
reliable.
You rely on you for leading inthat area in a workplace or in a
(40:21):
relationship.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
I like that.
You call it those small steps,the 10% change.
I call that micro steps, withmy clients as well, the idea of
something small having a greateffect over time because it
compounds, because you say it'sconsistency.
If I'm showing up consistentlyin a certain way, over time
people build an impression of meand that creates trust, that
(40:47):
creates rapport, that becomessomething I can bank for the
future, think I can bank for thefuture.
So even in a situation ofconflict, because I've built up
that bank of trust, people areless likely to get so quickly
triggered into escalating aconflict, because there's that
to go against.
(41:07):
But if we only put out largegestures and superficial
gestures and say things we don'tmean, then that trust hasn't
been built at all and the firstmoment of the conflict I think
it all comes crashing downbecause people realize the words
don't match the actions and theintegrity is not there and I
can't trust this person that'sright, that's right.
Speaker 3 (41:30):
And, um, you know, I think that, um, sometimes, when
you can see a dynamic, I mean Ithink it's always important that
you have someone.
You're debriefing a complexconflict with, someone who's an
ally, so you know you need tocheck in so that you can take a
(41:50):
perspective, take your internalprocessing and share it with
someone who's not involved inthe situation, just to reflect.
So what am I missing here?
What am I caught up in?
What story am I getting hookedby?
I'm getting hooked by Charlie'sstory because I'm really, you
know, buying into him, being thevictim here, and it's really
(42:11):
not fair and go home worryingabout Charlie and, oh, I didn't
realise I was doing that, that'sright.
Honestly, stop doing that.
Or, oh, I'm really gettingcaught up in the oh, nothing I
do will be of any value.
No one's going to listen to me.
And challenging that story thatsays no, I can speak assertively
(42:32):
and there is a formula toassertiveness that again is
concise, so again works well forpeople who want to maintain
their energy levels.
And once you understand thatformula, you can say things that
have impact, that really movethings along, with not having to
(42:54):
say much.
And particularly if you justput your own position, you speak
for yourself.
Or, if you're taking thatobservational position, you
describe what you see or hear,rather than attributing someone
else's intentions or their.
You know, it's more powerful tosay I heard you say or I saw
(43:20):
you do than to say, oh, whatsomeone said was, or you know,
what's all being talked about inthe room is.
So when we use languageintentionally intentionally and
this is a challenge when you'reintroverted because you don't
want to own things, you don'twant to hide, use words to hide
behind, but when you're talkingthird person, passive, it just
(43:44):
erodes trust.
But when we speak from I, thisis what I think, or I heard you
say this, or I saw you do this,then we're describing, without
fault or blame, information thatpeople can evaluate.
So that builds a lot more trustas well.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
Sounds like what you're saying is a more
data-driven approach, as in.
These are the facts, this iswhat I heard, these are my
observations, and it feels moreneutral.
I'm not saying, I'm not makingup a story about you or what you
did or what other people saidand then contributing to the
escalation of the dramaAbsolutely.
Speaker 3 (44:27):
We have to work with.
What's the evidence we'reworking with Now, we'll also
have this irrational part of usgoing.
I don't know why you did thatthe story will play out
underneath but I think what youoffer when you're managing
yourself well in a conflict yousay well, look, I heard you say
(44:48):
that you know Charlie's alwayscomplaining about this
particular issue.
I wonder if other you canalways bring the question back.
I wonder what, charlie, how yousee it, you can always.
You can, from an introvertedperspective, just guide the
(45:10):
conversation back.
It really depends on yourpurpose.
So is your purpose.
I think that's to just guidethe conversation back.
It really depends on yourpurpose.
So is your purpose.
I think that's the challenge inlistening.
We need to listen with purpose,not just actively listen.
But when I come to this meeting, where I know it's going to be
difficult, what's my purposehere?
Is my purpose to be theobserver who can point out where
(45:31):
we're getting stuck, whenthings you know know where are
the points?
I've sat now.
I've watched that we escalateat this point, at this point.
Oh, this person is reallydogmatic.
I've watched them.
My purpose is to try andinterrupt that a little bit.
So that's why I think it's thatobservational skills and
(45:52):
understanding clues is really,really important, because then
we can make a decision aboutwhat we want to contribute to
the conflict and not takeeverything on board or hide and
feel like we have nothing tooffer and then feel wounded
about that which doesn't createstrength.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
Yes, so there's a whole spectrum of emotions and
reactions that we can choose,and I think the important thing
that you've just emphasized isto be very conscious of what the
position is that we're adoptingand what's the purpose of us
speaking up in this conflictwhat are?
we hoping to achieve and,importantly, first calming,
(46:33):
regulating ourselves, puttingout that same kind of calm
energy, ensuring the otherperson feels heard, feels
validated, feels seen, beingable to mirror back to them what
you heard them say, keepingthat language neutral, noticing
the dynamics, noticing the drama, the conflict or drama that is
playing out and what's happeningwith each person.
(46:54):
And so I think thatobservational role is something
introverts would do very well,as long as they can manage
themselves enough to not feeloverwhelmed and caught up in the
anxiety of the situationthemselves, but to be able to
step back a little bit, createsome space between them and
what's going on, and then Ithink, in that position of
(47:15):
strength, they will be able toarticulate and contribute much
more effectively.
Speaker 3 (47:20):
And absolutely.
And so I think you don't haveto know what to do immediately.
Most conflicts are repetitiveand predictable.
You know.
We know when Joe's in the roomor Joanne's in the room, that
they are very opinionated andthey will strive to dominate the
conversation and the group willwork like this.
(47:46):
And I'm not going to.
You know, there's no point intaking Joanne on head on.
That's not what we're here todo.
But I can be the person thatsimply asks what somebody else
thinks or repeats back whatjoanne has said.
So, joanne, from your point ofview, you're saying all these
(48:07):
things.
Joanne will love that.
She loves being listened to,right?
I wonder what other peoplethink.
So we can be very, verypurposeful and influential in
small ways and in ways that fitour personality.
And also, then you know,everybody wants to grow.
(48:32):
So conflict is a wonderfulopportunity to learn more about
yourself and more about otherpeople.
That's its purpose, and itspurpose really is to.
Unfortunately, it's not themost comfortable way to do it,
but its purpose is to enrich us.
Unfortunately, sometimesthere's a bit of heartache
involved and discomfort, and wewant our lessons in life to be
(48:53):
easy.
You know, we'd like them tocome in a wrapper and be like
chocolate we just ate it.
Oh, I know that.
But, um, most of life's lessonsare discomfort based.
So, building your tolerance todiscomfort, building that muscle
where I can see I discomfort, Ican stay calm, I can take time
(49:17):
internally to process, that isabsolutely important and I may
be someone that tends to thatwith more depth than other
people, some of the other peoplein the room.
But having done that internalreflection, how can I give that
back to the group, that internalreflection?
How can I give that back to thegroup?
How can I make my way reallyhelpful for this group of people
(49:41):
that maybe are caught up in thebrusqueness and the noise?
And so you know, when you'reassertive, the statement's
really simple.
It's really saying look, Ithink this, I think our meetings
are getting side-ralled by thisparticular issue that I've
observed.
(50:02):
And then you describe theproblem that I've observed
happened in our last fivemeetings.
When it's come to this point,but talking about the allocation
of resources for XYZ, we'veseemed to get stuck.
And so there's five steps, Ithink, or I feel, describing
something with I can see or Iheard, or that data,
(50:24):
evidence-based information,let's say.
And then saying what'simportant to you.
You know, what's reallyimportant to me is that perhaps
we put that on hold for a whileso we can talk about something
that comes a little earlier thatwe've missed.
I've watched us missing in ourconversations about how we're
going to build this project andI think it might help us.
(50:46):
And then you ask for what youwant.
I think it might help us if wefocus there for a while and then
you say and I appreciate thatother people may see that
differently, but there's fivesteps.
I think I feel you know,because describing the problem,
the observation or the gridlock,that two-thirds of the
(51:09):
situation that's always going tobe with us, this is what's
important to me, to our project,this is what I would like and
if I'm very firm, it's what Iwant, and so you can calibrate
what you're asking for.
And of course you know ifyou're more introverted when you
(51:32):
say and I want people listen,it has impact.
But you can say you know Iwould like or I think it would
be good if we did X, Y, z, andthen that last one I appreciate
other people may see itdifferently it still gives you.
You don't have to say it inthat order, but if you have all
(51:53):
those five points.
When you're being assertive,you've sort of covered off a lot
of information in a very simpleframework.
Speaker 2 (52:02):
So it might be.
Speaker 3 (52:02):
I appreciate that Joanne has very strong views
about, as she said in describing, the situation with the
allocation of resources, andshe's highlighted these points,
but I think what's important isthat we maybe get a range of
(52:24):
opinions around the room,because I've noticed that this
is where we get stuck and Ithink perhaps there's this early
element when you think aboutyou know, once you have that
framework in mind, you canorganise information very
helpfully, very strongly.
Speaker 2 (52:44):
That is a brilliant framework, elizabeth, and a
perfect way to wrap up.
So pay attention to Elizabeth'sfive-point framework the next
time you find yourself caught ina conflict and maybe having to
play mediator, because yourintroverted nature and your
quiet strengths make you theperfect person to observe and to
reflect back and help the groupmove forward in a way that is
(53:08):
mutually respectful.
So, elizabeth, thank you somuch for coming on the Quiet
Warrior podcast today.
Speaker 3 (53:16):
What is the best way for people to connect with you.
Well, my website is ElizabethWilliamson Solutions.
It's a long, long typingjourney, and so you can connect
with me by that or LinkedIn, andI offer a complimentary
30-minute discovery call so thatI can understand what people
(53:36):
would like to work on and how Imight best assist them and, you
know, tailoring our approach,which might be coaching,
conflict, coaching skills, andthat can be really, really
helpful.
I have this problem I reallywant to be more skilful, or it
might be you know a familydynamic where I really want to
be more skillful, or it might beyou know a family dynamic where
I really want the familydynamic to change and I want to
(53:59):
step out of being in this rolein the family, or it just might
be.
I'm sick of the arguments ofmyself and I would like to
change my thinking about this soI can be more effective.
And you can book online via mywebsite.
Speaker 2 (54:17):
Fantastic.
I can see how much value thatwould be for anybody, whether
we're going through internal orexternal conflict.
So if you've enjoyed thisconversation and want more like
this, make sure to leave afive-star rating and a review so
that the Quiet Warrior podcastcan reach more introverts around
the world.
See you on the next episode.
I'm so grateful that you'rehere today.
Speaker 1 (54:40):
If you found this content valuable, please share
it on your social media channelsand subscribe to the show on
your favorite listening platform.
Together, we can help moreintroverts thrive To receive
more uplifting content like this.
Connect with me on Instagram at.
Speaker 2 (54:55):
Serena, Lo Quiet Warrior Coach.
Speaker 1 (54:58):
Thank you for sharing your time and your energy with
me.
See you on the next episode.
Hi, I'm Serena Loh.
If you're used to hearing thatintroverts are shy, anxious,
antisocial and lack goodcommunication and leadership
skills, then this podcast is foryou.
You're about to fall in lovewith the calm, introspective and
profound person that you are.
Discover what's fun, unique andpowerful about being an
(00:21):
introvert, and how to make theelegant transition from quiet
achiever to quiet warrior inyour life and work anytime you
want, in more ways than youimagined possible.
Welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Welcome to the Quiet Warrior podcast.
Our guest today has over 40years expertise in relationship
skills and conflict resolution,with individual, family and
leadership responsibilities.
That focuses on the skills andresources you need to remain
calm, have clarity andpositively resolve business and
(01:08):
personal relationship stress,disputes and conflicts.
She has a passion for workingwith female founders and women
in leadership to help them honetheir personal insights and
practical approaches toconfidently navigate difficult
conversations and buildresilient, respectful
relationships.
(01:28):
Welcome Elizabeth Williamson tothe Quiet Warrior podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Thank you, serena.
I'm delighted to be here, it'sa real pleasure.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Elizabeth, tell us about your background and your
professional journey, and whatdrew you into the work you now
do.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Okay, so my background is in social work and
I am old enough to have, youknow, graduated last century,
late last century, and I startedworking community development,
working with a group of women toset up a community centre in a
new housing development.
And what I discovered was and Ithink it was a great idea
(02:04):
there'd a new housingdevelopment and what I
discovered was you know, I thinkit was a great idea there'd be
lots of enthusiasm.
And what I discovered was thatcommittees are full of arguments
.
And then, of course, there werearguments between the committee
of women developing thecommunity centre and the
government department that wasbuilding a childcare centre next
door, the kindergarten, andthere was conflict with the
council I was working with whenI'd put up an idea and different
(02:27):
things would happen.
And I was, you know, builtpersonality disputes on that
committee and as the projectprogressed and became more
successful, the women involvedin the committee and involved in
the volunteer groups would havebattles at home with their
(02:47):
husbands, because the next roundof arguments were about not
being home enough to cook dinnerand be a good, you know, mother
or wife.
And this is the 1980s.
So I found myself in a middleof conflict with no idea what to
do really no idea and fumblingalong and half the time thinking
(03:10):
, oh my God, I've got it wrong.
I found myself, I guess, in myteens.
If I look back to my personallife, I was always in the middle
of arguments because I wasquite good at being opinionated
and stubborn and not listening.
So not a good set of skills,despite all my great social work
(03:33):
values, to lead them tocommunity work.
And as I pursued my career, Ijust was either in the forefront
of conflict, because I workedwith Vietnam veterans for a
while, setting up a men's shedproject, and I was representing
the Department of VeteranAffairs as a consultant.
(03:54):
So that put me in the midst ofa very long-standing conflict
between Vietnam veterans and thegovernment, with a lot of
people who were very traumatisedby war and conflict, and the
government with a lot of peoplewho were very traumatised by war
and conflict.
And then I later worked leadinga domestic violence service.
So there I was, at theforefront of family violence and
(04:17):
what that means for children aswell, and I also discovered
there's a right timing forthings.
So we were trying to beinnovative in our organisation
and we were trying to set up acharitable fund, we thought we
would raise the issue ofdomestic violence as a human
rights issue, and the feministstructure of women's shelters at
(04:42):
that time were not happy withfeminism not being at the
forefront.
So I found I was in the middleof a dispute with other domestic
violence services and wheneverI tried to innovate something,
ego got involved, status gotinvolved, and I'm finding myself
in conflict with my colleaguesand I also did not, and I think
(05:03):
I was burned out and I did notmanage probably my staff
relationships well either.
And so there was, I hadconflict there as well.
Um, that that led to um, reallyburning out and breaking down
and, uh, quite a journey back tofinding what is that, what is
it that I do well, and anddiscovering that that's
(05:25):
something that I've done alongthe way, which is working as a
therapist and my sort ofin-between the Vietnam veterans
in the community centre.
When my children were very, veryyoung, I was sort of
hand-hunted to do somecounselling work at the time
when adult survivors of sexualabuse were just.
(05:46):
That was just becoming apriority and you know people
were looking for a skilledapproach to that.
So I worked a lot in that areain community health, and went on
to do some other things, butwhat I discovered is that I am
(06:06):
actually, at heart, best atherapist where I can help
people understand internalconflict first.
You know the arguments we havewith ourselves, because that's
what I was always battling.
Like all these externalarguments, I realised, hold on
hold on.
There's an internal argumentthat someone's having and I
(06:26):
can't resolve, and they'reeither struggling with it or
they're throwing it around theroom and wanting someone else to
solve the problem.
You know that.
Um.
So insight and awareness ofawareness and self-compassion
are incredibly importantconflict resolution skills, and
I longed to learn how to work inrelationship conflict.
(06:48):
So I studied with, I had thevery privilege to study for
about three years with John andJulie Gottman, who founded the
Gottman Institute, and their 40years of research into couples
therapy, couples, conflicts.
What leads to success in arelationship, what leads to
relationship failure in families, is outstanding and, um,
(07:12):
multidisciplinary, and thatprovided, uh me with a whole
skill set that that now theirwork is now being applied to
workplaces.
So along the way, once I foundI found counselling was a good
place for me to be.
I worked with in commercialpsychology, we worked in
(07:34):
workplaces, employee assistanceprograms, and so I was talking
to people about their workplaceconflicts and then I was
coaching managers and leadersabout handling workplace
conflicts, and I was fortunateto train as a mediator during
that time so that I couldfacilitate conversations about
(07:54):
complex conflicts and helpleaders assess conflict dynamics
and what would be goodapproaches, and that was great
work.
My life sort of took a huge turnin 2012 when I was diagnosed
with luckily a benign tumour inmy spinal cord quite high in my
(08:20):
neck C3, so it's only a coupleof vertebrae that function, and
then everything else is reallycompromised in my body and that
led me to have to learn to walkagain.
I had surgery to remove thetumour.
I actually learned to walk andI entered into a life of another
sort of conflict, which is madewith gravity now, but also with
(08:44):
understanding that we don'tneed a disability-friendly
workplace.
Workplaces are notdisability-friendly most of them
.
They're not really inclusive inmany, many ways, and certainly
this is about 13 years ago.
I encountered barrier afterbarrier to continue to be able
to work in a way that wasflexible for myself and worked
(09:09):
for the companies.
It was hard to find a job.
I tripped my last job I trippedby doing a video interview,
they offered me the job and then, once I had accepted, I said by
the way, I have a disabilityand I will need some assistance
with a chair.
There's a government fund whereyou can apply for that.
It'll cost you nothing.
Could you apply?
And they did nothing.
(09:32):
So I think I spent the firstfive weeks of that job in a
remote office carrying a $2Bunnings gardening chair to sit
in, because it was the onlychair I could sit in, carrying
it in and out, and I don't walkvery well.
So interesting points ofconflict.
You know, sometimes we seeinstitutionalised or cultural or
(09:57):
just the myopic conflict oforganisations bent on doing what
they always do and not beingflexible.
So that's been a journey, ajourney to get to where I am now
.
Over the last 17 years I'vegone from side hustle.
I now have my own businesswhere I consult with couples and
work with family businesses anddo leadership training as well.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yeah, Thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
That's quite a long story.
That's all of it.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Yes, yes, and so many elements that I was noticing,
because my question to you wouldhave been what are the root
causes of conflict?
And I think you alluded to someof them.
You mentioned personalitydifferences, you mentioned ego,
you mentioned timing and contextand just the nature of change.
People don't like change, dothey?
(10:48):
So that by itself causesconflict.
And you said, when environmentsare inflexible, if they haven't
envisaged this kind ofsituation or there's no sop for
it, no one's ever done thisbefore.
This is how we've always donethings.
It's almost like there's thisreluctance to go out and be that
(11:08):
first person or that firstorganisation that creates a new
way of handling this novelsituation, as in your case, with
a chair.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Most conflicts are about.
What you feel like you'rearguing about is the surface
issue and why conflict is sohard to resolve.
It's very hard for us to get towhat the real longing is, the
real purpose is.
So we fight at the tip of theiceberg, if you like, over the
top 10%, obvious things, withouthaving the knowledge or skills
(11:42):
to get to the real issues thebreaches of trust, the boundary
issues, the values or theethical issues that people are
struggling with.
And I think you know theGottman's research is quite
profound and they have a coupleof very useful, very simple
(12:04):
models.
But what their research foundwas that most interpersonal
relationships, most intimaterelationships, solve about one
third of their problems together, by conversation, compromise,
you know, collaboration, andtwo-thirds of their conflicts
continue throughout therelationship.
So successful relationshipswork out how to deal with
(12:28):
problems in positive ways, witha positive perspective, knowing
that you know I can have thisdifficult conversation, or I can
manage my own emotions aboutthis, or I can have empathy for
you, and that will lead us to anoutcome where we both are
satisfied.
There's some give and take inthere.
(12:52):
Many people approach conflict asif it shouldn't be there and
they're very negatively focused.
So they can predict, you knowall the things that are going to
go wrong in the argument or inthe situation, and then they
actually go and do things whichdemonstrably don't work, don't
lead them in the direction thatthey want to go in in the
(13:14):
situation, and they repeat it,even though it didn't work last
time.
They do it again and again, notknowing what else to do,
obviously, but but also thentrying to blame someone else or
blame themselves for thesituation which which doesn't
work.
So if we accept that conflictis inevitable, that's a good
(13:37):
starting point.
And the next starting point isthe conflict.
Drama is at the center of whatit is to be human, because it's
the centre of every story thatwe tell.
You know, you think about thebooks you love to read, the TV
shows where you immerse yourselfand binge there we conflict.
(13:58):
Romantic comedy is all aboutboy meets girl, boy loses girl.
There's the conflict.
Boy finds girl again, oranother girl, or something
happens.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Even when you watch comedy, comedians are using
conflict to drive us to laugh sowhat you're saying is conflict
cannot be avoided and weshouldn't be trying to avoid it,
because it's central to whatmakes us human yeah, yeah, it's
true, um, it's not a comfortableexperience and um, we don't
(14:36):
teach in our culture, uh, herein australia, um, very effective
ways of managing conflict.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
um, we don't teach enough curiosity about what's
you know, we, we, we look forvery binary ways of thinking
right, wrong, good, bad, you, me, they, us, you know, fall blame
and we get stuck in ways ofthinking firstly about ourselves
(15:06):
and the conversations we havewith ourselves about a conflict
situation and then not reallylearning those skills.
I think it's where quietleadership has a particular
beautiful edge of reallyunderstanding somebody else's
perspective, because you knowthe real skill in managing
(15:27):
conflict well is to be curiousabout other people's points of
view.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Yes, I think there is a lot of value in that empathy,
the ability to sit withsomebody else's point of view
without making it about us,without making it as as though,
because they have a differentpoint of view, they are not like
me and therefore we are not thesame, which is that binary kind
(15:55):
of perspective you werealluding to earlier.
So how do we expand our abilityto, to welcome or to be open to
more different perspectives?
Speaker 3 (16:09):
well, I think.
You know, I think for peoplewho, um, who are quiet warriors,
quite leaders, who want toobservational, reflective,
slower style, there's so manyassets.
You know, that ability toobserve and watch.
(16:31):
If you have a framework foryour conflict through that you
can be, it's such a powerfulplace to sit in a dispute where
you, let's say, you're in abusiness environment where
there's more than one person.
So when you sit back and watchthe dynamic and you're listening
carefully and you're curious,you manage your own anxiety well
(16:54):
enough to be curious about thedifferent points in the room.
You can be the person that can.
You know critical moments?
Just just introduce, um, asummary of what's being said and
and and identify a point wherepeople have agreed and a kernel
(17:14):
of where they've disagreed, andthen ask that, ask a question
that might just lead to moreconversation at a different
level.
So that first part is to manageyour own anxiety around
conflict so that we can be calmand centred.
So in my approach, I thinkthere are six key skills, and
(17:35):
certainly being centred is oneof them, and the other one is to
know the clues to understandthe dynamics of conflict so that
when you're, when you're tryingto reflect on for yourself or
you're trying to understandsomebody else.
You have a framework to piecetogether pieces of evidence and
information rather than be stuckwith your emotional response
(17:57):
and, you know, stuck with thefact that human beings are
irrational beings as well asrational beings.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
That is a very interesting paradox.
You're right, we are bothrational and irrational.
I think Dan really calls itpredictably irrational.
That's what we humans are.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
Yeah, yes, so what you said is manage our own
anxiety first.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Manage our emotions first, and then also to know the
clues.
What are these clues about?
Speaker 3 (18:28):
So let's come back to that, the idea that conflict's
inherent in us as human beingsand how we see the world, and
it's in how we tell stories.
And when you think about anargument that you might have had
with someone or a disagreement,you'll have a story about that.
You'll have a in your head,you'll be playing it.
Well, I said this and then theydid that, and this is what
(18:51):
should have happened, or what Iwanted to have happened, or why
didn't they see it my way, oryou know, we'll be telling
ourselves a story and everystory has three parts to it.
It has because it's based onour stress response.
It has a sense of there's athreat, so something might
punish us.
There's um, a fear, so we feela bit of a victim and we want to
(19:15):
escape and and hide, and so wewant someone to come and rescue
the situation, so that thatfight, flight, freeze, which is
our innate response to stress,is our first response, the
energy that comes with thosethat in that innate response is
(19:37):
emotional.
So it's anger or fight, youknow, and that's just positive
energy.
That's energy towards, towardsa.
So it's anger or fight, youknow, and that's just positive
energy, that's energy towards aproblem.
It's neither good nor bad, it'sjust doing something towards
the problem.
And we learn about how tomanage our stress responses and
how conflict works in ourfamilies.
So in our families we can learn, you know, that anger is a
(19:57):
dangerous thing to show, orforbidden, or disallowed or
ignored, you know, and so it canbe quite and particularly for
women, very difficult to bringforth your anger in a way that
you feel is going to berespected, and that you feel
comfortable with Fear.
(20:18):
We're more familiar with fearfor women, and fear is that
sense of I'm a victim here, so Ijust want to get away.
You know, I want to avoid theconflict.
I feel very small in thissituation.
It feels overwhelming.
Um, I just, I just want to getout the room, like I want to get
away as fast as I can and andthat'll solve everything, which
of course it doesn't.
But but when we're so, thenwhen we feel overwhelmed with a
(20:43):
conflict situation and we wantto run away, we feel small and
the problem feels bigger than us.
Then we look for rescuing.
That is the freeze part of thestress response from fight,
flight and freeze, and that's abit like I want to hide.
And if I hide, the problem,sort of go away.
(21:05):
And that works in a couple ofways.
One, it means well, I wantsomeone else to fix this, I'm
going to do nothing and it'ssomebody else's responsibility.
Or there's this.
The contradictory position ismy God, it's all my
responsibility, I have to doeverything to fix this.
And that just leads you to fallback into either one of the
(21:29):
other two positions of either ohmy God, I feel like I'm being
punished, it's all my fault,everyone's angry at me.
Or I'm angry at me so I'm backinto the anger space.
Or, oh my God, I'm frightened,I just want to run away me.
So I'm back into the angerspace.
Or, oh my god, I'm frightened,you know, I just want to run
away again.
I'm back in the victim space.
So when we get caught in thedrama of conflict, it's a closed
system.
There's no real way out.
(21:50):
But everybody in a conflictsituation is has an element of
that they're playing with.
So you might feel like you'rethe victim here.
You can't speak, it's awful,it's totally unfair, you're not
being valued.
But I can guarantee someoneelse in the room will think that
that's their, that's what'shappening for them, and somebody
(22:13):
else should fix this up forthem, and maybe that's you or
they're saying well, if only youspoke up, things would be
better so that you know you getto be the person who's punishing
the situation or the personwho's rescuing the situation.
That dynamic is very confusing,so that's why conflict is so
complex, because everyone has adifferent story and the first
(22:36):
clue is to understand thateveryone is telling that victim
punishment, rescue storydifferently, from their
perspective.
And if you can watch that, youcan understand much more about
how people see you, but whatthey're really struggling with,
and you can choose to step outof that dynamic and do something
(22:56):
different.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
So what I'm saying, what I'm hearing from you, is
there needs to be that level ofself-awareness for me to step
out, because when I'm caught upin a conflict, usually I can't
see it.
I'm caught up in the heat ofthe moment, with all the
emotions.
I'm feeling defensive, I'mfeeling fearful, I'm feeling
small and overwhelmed, which youmentioned and maybe a part of
(23:20):
me is angry as well and wants tofight back.
What about introverts, whogenerally tend to be people
pleasers and are very conflictavoidant?
How would they be responding ina situation like this?
Speaker 3 (23:35):
So that people pleasing fits beautifully into
that rescue mode, that model,that mode I should say.
You know so if I'm a peoplepleaser, then I might feel like
it's my responsibility to makeeverybody happy.
It's my responsibility to takeon the extra load.
It's my responsibility to fixthis.
I don't want to see anyone.
My challenge is other people'sdiscomfort, and so I try and
(24:00):
solve my own discomfort thatsomeone else is unhappy by
trying to fix things, by tryingto say the right thing, make
them happy, not speak upcompromise, give up what's
important to me in order toreduce the stress in the
(24:20):
situation, calm myself down andmake everybody happy, right?
Of course I'm going to getresentful about that, so I'm
going to feel that anger andthen I'm going to feel trapped
by that.
I'm going to feel like I'm avictim.
So we can't escape that dynamic.
The other one is where I don'tthink I should have to do
(24:40):
anything.
I want to hide.
Someone else should fix this.
It's not my responsibility, umand uh, but most people pleasing
is is doing too much and I, Iin my model, um.
The first step is to know thoseclues.
First of all, a conflict ispart of everyone's story.
(25:01):
It, it's actually what makeslife interesting.
It's in our books, it's in ourmovies, it's in our songs, you
know, it's in comedy.
So we could bring more humourand more curiosity and it'll
make it a safer place to be.
Secondly, if we can manage ouremotions and stay calm and
(25:21):
centered, then we can read thoseclues better and we are a more
valuable contributor toresolving things.
Because if we, if you can calmyourself down, um, our wonderful
mirror neurons in our beautifulbrains work, so people will
mirror you calming down.
(25:42):
So if you remain the calmperson, even though you don't
like conflict, even though youprefer this not to be happening,
but you regulate your breath,you slow your heart rate down by
regulating your breath and youjust keep your feet planted and
say I'm going to be present,nothing moves me, then you get
the third skill that I teach,which is to do less and be more.
(26:05):
The less energy.
This is so valuable for someonewho's introverted, because in a
conflict there's all this stuffflying around, all this energy,
all these words.
Well, if you're the person whodoes less and is more present,
that's an incredibly strongcontribution, because
(26:28):
conciseness is really important.
And so that's the third thing Iteach is conciseness Perfect?
If you're an introvert, in aconflict, people will hear very
little of what is said.
The inner conflict people willhear very little of what is said
.
There'll be a lot of thingsdone and said, but very little
will be taken by somebody.
(26:49):
If your heart rate is elevatedOnce your heart rate's in the
80s, 90s, your vision literallybecomes narrower, your ability
to process auditory informationis impacted and your rational
skills are decreased.
And so you know, a smile mightlook like a sneer and sorry will
(27:14):
sound sarcastic.
And if you hit 100, then you'lljust feel like you're being
manipulated and you'll have notrust in the situation
whatsoever and be emotionallyflooded and the conflict will
escalate.
So you manage your emotionswell and stay calm, keep your
heart rate low, you guide otherpeople in the same way, but also
(27:34):
you get to be concise.
Small things are useful andthat ability to listen that is
so critical at this point.
If you can listen and letsomeone know that you understand
their perspective, then don'tneed to put yours in a box for a
little while, because you'llgain influence by someone, the
(27:59):
other person believing that youunderstand their perspective and
that you can demonstrate thatyou make it tangible.
And that's the skill oflistening and repeating back
what you hear, so that what thatdoes is creates another loop
for the person who's speaking tohear their own words, reprocess
(28:20):
them so that deepens what'sgoing on.
But it creates more trust.
Oh well, yes, I did say that.
Or oh now, well, actually, Ithink this, you know, I can go
to a slightly different position.
Or, oh, you're so right, youput that even better than I
could.
And if you can validate, itmakes validate that person's
(28:42):
perspective before you put yourown, then you gain a lot of
influence, and so, particularlyfor people who are people
pleasers, that's a great skillto learn, because you don't have
to put your own self first, youjust are saying let me
understand you.
And that's a rare experience.
(29:03):
Often do we have someone in ourlife who, in a conflict or in
any conversations that you know,responds by oh.
So you think this, serena, thisis really important to you.
It's a, you know, quiet, worryissue is something that fills
your whole life and you know,tell me more about the podcast
interviews you whole life.
And you know, tell me moreabout the podcast interviews
you've been having.
(29:24):
You know.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
Tell me more about you.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
That happens rare.
Mainly, we say, oh, it's great,you're doing a podcast.
Let me tell you about the lastpodcast I heard, or the podcast
I'm planning, or the lastinterview I had, you know, which
doesn't build trust.
So there's so much strength inthat introverted skill of
listening first, and then theskill is to speak up and
(29:50):
summarise what you hear, becauseit will slow everything down.
You've got to slow everythingdown and then so I can see your
point.
I can see your point of view.
You think that you know,because this issue has been
brought up five times in thelast month and we haven't been
able to progress it, and youfeel like the barrier is this,
(30:12):
that and the other, and theresolution you would like is
this From your perspective, Ican understand why you see it
like that.
You haven't put an opinion in,you just said I can see why you
see it like that.
You haven't put an opinion in,you just said I can see your
perspective.
It gives you the chance to thennegotiate more clearly, to
communicate what you want to say.
(30:33):
Because you've got listeningnow and slowing things down.
You can say, from yourperspective, understanding that
from my perspective it's likethis and you can describe your
perspective.
That's hard, I think, whenyou're introverted, to say these
(30:54):
things, but that's the platewhere we deal with our fear,
that's where we find our courage.
And I think introverted peoplewho, you know, don't like
(31:15):
conflict which is good we shouldnot like.
I mean it's inevitable, but wedon't like it.
If you do like conflict, youhave a problem.
We should not like I mean, it'sinevitable, but we don't like
it.
If you do like conflict, youhave a problem, and introverted
people who don't like conflict.
That ability to just calm, it'sokay.
I actually can do somethingpositive here and I don't take
on anybody else's distress, soboundaries are really important.
(31:35):
I'm not taking on anybodyelse's distress.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
I can observe things and I have to keep calming
myself down, so don't take itall what I heard you say is that
the introvert's gift is inbeing able to regulate
themselves, first by calmingthemselves and then calming
(32:03):
others, by projecting that samekind of calm, quiet energy
outwards, and also being able totake that step back and use
their natural quiet strengths oflistening, of empathy, of
sensitivity, of compassion andhelping somebody feel heard,
because nothing is as quick todeflate someone as realizing
(32:25):
hang on, they're not arguingwith me, they're actually
listening to me.
They just said what is it thatI said a moment ago, which means
they are listening and payingattention.
So now I feel seen and I feelheard.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
so that and deeply respected.
There's nothing more respected.
So you know, then, and then youcome to act out of value, your
values, which is very hard inconflict.
Because you know that, becauseyou know when, when we tell the
story, when we're in a conflict,and you tell the story to
yourself, you're right, right,yes, we're always right, we're
(33:02):
the victim.
So in most conflicts peoplecompete to be the victim, yes.
And so once you understand thatas a clue, then you watch.
Ah, now some people, once theysee that dynamic happening, they
do like to punish it.
They believe that forcefulness,authoritarianism, that they are
(33:25):
right and nobody else shouldoccupy that space.
You get a lot of 10% of thepopulation really do like
conflict, even if they say theydon't, and they will introduce
conflict in situations.
So we do need to work out howto do it with high-conflict
people.
But the natural tendency forintroverts of that empathy, that
(33:47):
sensitivity, that slowingthings down, that request to
slow things down, like beingassertive about slowing things
down is invaluable.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
I like that you call it assertiveness asserting that
you are going to slow thingsdown, letting people know that
this is what you're doing andhaving those strong boundaries,
Because I know a lot ofintroverts who would avoid even
having that interaction.
They would back away, theywould feel I'm not in the right
(34:27):
place.
I can't deal with this.
I don't have the capacity totake on all this angst and all
this anger and all this energy,this kind of aggression.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
Look, yes, and I also think it's quite okay to let
people know your tolerance level.
I think it's totallyappropriate to say in a
situation the level of tensionhere is not helpful and I really
(35:01):
think we need to reduce this inorder for me to participate.
Can we please be the person whospeaks for the boundaries?
Can we talk respectfully?
Can we do this in a way thateveryone can be heard?
Yes, and also, do not strivefor solutions.
(35:22):
Strive for understanding first.
So the first part of a conflictconversation is often just
working at what does everybodythink and realising.
Well, we actually agree here onthis one thing and we disagree
over here, and we've been havinga tit-for-tat argument about
(35:42):
how we argue, how we talk aboutthings.
We've missed the deeper issuehere that we're both on the same
team about getting thisparticular outcome or, in our
relationship, we're both on thesame team about how we want to
raise and deal with screen timewith kids.
You know, probably a commonproblem for lots of parents, or
(36:07):
we're not.
We see it so differently.
You know, our ideas aboutscreen time and kids in
discipline are very different.
Based on what right, what havewe learnt from kids, and our
view of what happens in meetingsis often quite different, based
on how we see power working inan organisation, our preference
(36:31):
for hierarchy working in anorganisation, our preference for
hierarchy.
But you know, quiet leadersbring room for emotional
intelligence and I think in aconflict you only have to choose
to lead one thing.
Take a small aspect that youwant to strive for.
(36:53):
Don't try and do it all,because that's overwhelming.
Pick one thing, one area youwould like to champion, or to
lead in or to assert, so thatyour energy is directed into one
thing that you find important,rather than taking it all on.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
So that's to do with managing your capacity, being
aware of what limitations youmight have in that sense, so not
overburdening yourself, nottaking on too much and that is
again to do with boundaries,isn't it and also self-respect,
as in I respect that I have thislimitation, I'm aware of it and
(37:40):
I'm not going to overloadmyself.
I'm going to be veryintentional and careful.
I'm just going to pick onething to champion and I'm not
taking all the responsibility on.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
That's right, and also understand that that's a
valuable skill to have.
By choosing to just to work onone thing, I'm going to lead in
this one era.
I'm going to work with this oneaspect, um, um, I'm going to
let the people up here fight.
I don't have to get involved inthat.
(38:10):
That.
That may have nothing to dowith me.
This is the area I want toprogress and in progressing this
particular issue, um, inlooking after my own again, this
conciseness of energy, I onlyhave so much energy and I need
to plan for the energy it takesafter a difficult conversation.
(38:32):
Everybody needs to plan forthat, by the way, whether you're
an introvert or extrovert,because you know we go and
process, we walk out and thinkand feel, and you know stress
levels rise two to three daysafter difficult and challenging
situations.
So we need to have self-careplans and we need to check in so
(38:52):
that we can make sure we're notgetting caught in our story
again of being victim.
But try and explore.
Well, how can I be useful here?
And so you know, from a fear wefind courage, so that victim,
everyone's doing it, greater orlesser degrees.
(39:14):
But if I choose not to do that,then I'm going to have to
explore what it means to havesome courage.
Courage means I can sit with myfear and calm myself at the
same time and then choose to actabout what's important to me or
important for the team, andunderstanding that a small
contribution may progress thingsfar more profoundly than trying
(39:38):
to do something big.
So small things done often inrelationships are more powerful
than big gestures, and sointroverted people have that
skill again, that sensitivity tounderstand the small and so
being consistent.
You know I sometimes say strivefor 10% change.
(40:01):
Be surprised how consistentlyyou can make things happen with
just this piece of 10% here.
This piece of 10% here.
That'll add up if you'reconsistent and then you become
reliable.
You rely on you for leading inthat area in a workplace or in a
(40:21):
relationship.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
I like that.
You call it those small steps,the 10% change.
I call that micro steps, withmy clients as well, the idea of
something small having a greateffect over time because it
compounds, because you say it'sconsistency.
If I'm showing up consistentlyin a certain way, over time
people build an impression of meand that creates trust, that
(40:47):
creates rapport, that becomessomething I can bank for the
future, think I can bank for thefuture.
So even in a situation ofconflict, because I've built up
that bank of trust, people areless likely to get so quickly
triggered into escalating aconflict, because there's that
to go against.
(41:07):
But if we only put out largegestures and superficial
gestures and say things we don'tmean, then that trust hasn't
been built at all and the firstmoment of the conflict I think
it all comes crashing downbecause people realize the words
don't match the actions and theintegrity is not there and I
can't trust this person that'sright, that's right.
Speaker 3 (41:30):
And, um, you know, I think that, um, sometimes, when
you can see a dynamic, I mean Ithink it's always important that
you have someone.
You're debriefing a complexconflict with, someone who's an
ally, so you know you need tocheck in so that you can take a
(41:50):
perspective, take your internalprocessing and share it with
someone who's not involved inthe situation, just to reflect.
So what am I missing here?
What am I caught up in?
What story am I getting hookedby?
I'm getting hooked by Charlie'sstory because I'm really, you
know, buying into him, being thevictim here, and it's really
(42:11):
not fair and go home worryingabout Charlie and, oh, I didn't
realise I was doing that, that'sright.
Honestly, stop doing that.
Or, oh, I'm really gettingcaught up in the oh, nothing I
do will be of any value.
No one's going to listen to me.
And challenging that story thatsays no, I can speak assertively
(42:32):
and there is a formula toassertiveness that again is
concise, so again works well forpeople who want to maintain
their energy levels.
And once you understand thatformula, you can say things that
have impact, that really movethings along, with not having to
(42:54):
say much.
And particularly if you justput your own position, you speak
for yourself.
Or, if you're taking thatobservational position, you
describe what you see or hear,rather than attributing someone
else's intentions or their.
You know, it's more powerful tosay I heard you say or I saw
(43:20):
you do than to say, oh, whatsomeone said was, or you know,
what's all being talked about inthe room is.
So when we use languageintentionally intentionally and
this is a challenge when you'reintroverted because you don't
want to own things, you don'twant to hide, use words to hide
behind, but when you're talkingthird person, passive, it just
(43:44):
erodes trust.
But when we speak from I, thisis what I think, or I heard you
say this, or I saw you do this,then we're describing, without
fault or blame, information thatpeople can evaluate.
So that builds a lot more trustas well.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
Sounds like what you're saying is a more
data-driven approach, as in.
These are the facts, this iswhat I heard, these are my
observations, and it feels moreneutral.
I'm not saying, I'm not makingup a story about you or what you
did or what other people saidand then contributing to the
escalation of the dramaAbsolutely.
Speaker 3 (44:27):
We have to work with.
What's the evidence we'reworking with Now, we'll also
have this irrational part of usgoing.
I don't know why you did thatthe story will play out
underneath but I think what youoffer when you're managing
yourself well in a conflict yousay well, look, I heard you say
(44:48):
that you know Charlie's alwayscomplaining about this
particular issue.
I wonder if other you canalways bring the question back.
I wonder what, charlie, how yousee it, you can always.
You can, from an introvertedperspective, just guide the
(45:10):
conversation back.
It really depends on yourpurpose.
So is your purpose.
I think that's to just guidethe conversation back.
It really depends on yourpurpose.
So is your purpose.
I think that's the challenge inlistening.
We need to listen with purpose,not just actively listen.
But when I come to this meeting, where I know it's going to be
difficult, what's my purposehere?
Is my purpose to be theobserver who can point out where
(45:31):
we're getting stuck, whenthings you know know where are
the points?
I've sat now.
I've watched that we escalateat this point, at this point.
Oh, this person is reallydogmatic.
I've watched them.
My purpose is to try andinterrupt that a little bit.
So that's why I think it's thatobservational skills and
(45:52):
understanding clues is really,really important, because then
we can make a decision aboutwhat we want to contribute to
the conflict and not takeeverything on board or hide and
feel like we have nothing tooffer and then feel wounded
about that which doesn't createstrength.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
Yes, so there's a whole spectrum of emotions and
reactions that we can choose,and I think the important thing
that you've just emphasized isto be very conscious of what the
position is that we're adoptingand what's the purpose of us
speaking up in this conflictwhat are?
we hoping to achieve and,importantly, first calming,
(46:33):
regulating ourselves, puttingout that same kind of calm
energy, ensuring the otherperson feels heard, feels
validated, feels seen, beingable to mirror back to them what
you heard them say, keepingthat language neutral, noticing
the dynamics, noticing the drama, the conflict or drama that is
playing out and what's happeningwith each person.
(46:54):
And so I think thatobservational role is something
introverts would do very well,as long as they can manage
themselves enough to not feeloverwhelmed and caught up in the
anxiety of the situationthemselves, but to be able to
step back a little bit, createsome space between them and
what's going on, and then Ithink, in that position of
(47:15):
strength, they will be able toarticulate and contribute much
more effectively.
Speaker 3 (47:20):
And absolutely.
And so I think you don't haveto know what to do immediately.
Most conflicts are repetitiveand predictable.
You know.
We know when Joe's in the roomor Joanne's in the room, that
they are very opinionated andthey will strive to dominate the
conversation and the group willwork like this.
(47:46):
And I'm not going to.
You know, there's no point intaking Joanne on head on.
That's not what we're here todo.
But I can be the person thatsimply asks what somebody else
thinks or repeats back whatjoanne has said.
So, joanne, from your point ofview, you're saying all these
(48:07):
things.
Joanne will love that.
She loves being listened to,right?
I wonder what other peoplethink.
So we can be very, verypurposeful and influential in
small ways and in ways that fitour personality.
And also, then you know,everybody wants to grow.
(48:32):
So conflict is a wonderfulopportunity to learn more about
yourself and more about otherpeople.
That's its purpose, and itspurpose really is to.
Unfortunately, it's not themost comfortable way to do it,
but its purpose is to enrich us.
Unfortunately, sometimesthere's a bit of heartache
involved and discomfort, and wewant our lessons in life to be
(48:53):
easy.
You know, we'd like them tocome in a wrapper and be like
chocolate we just ate it.
Oh, I know that.
But, um, most of life's lessonsare discomfort based.
So, building your tolerance todiscomfort, building that muscle
where I can see I discomfort, Ican stay calm, I can take time
(49:17):
internally to process, that isabsolutely important and I may
be someone that tends to thatwith more depth than other
people, some of the other peoplein the room.
But having done that internalreflection, how can I give that
back to the group, that internalreflection?
How can I give that back to thegroup?
How can I make my way reallyhelpful for this group of people
(49:41):
that maybe are caught up in thebrusqueness and the noise?
And so you know, when you'reassertive, the statement's
really simple.
It's really saying look, Ithink this, I think our meetings
are getting side-ralled by thisparticular issue that I've
observed.
(50:02):
And then you describe theproblem that I've observed
happened in our last fivemeetings.
When it's come to this point,but talking about the allocation
of resources for XYZ, we'veseemed to get stuck.
And so there's five steps, Ithink, or I feel, describing
something with I can see or Iheard, or that data,
(50:24):
evidence-based information,let's say.
And then saying what'simportant to you.
You know, what's reallyimportant to me is that perhaps
we put that on hold for a whileso we can talk about something
that comes a little earlier thatwe've missed.
I've watched us missing in ourconversations about how we're
going to build this project andI think it might help us.
(50:46):
And then you ask for what youwant.
I think it might help us if wefocus there for a while and then
you say and I appreciate thatother people may see that
differently, but there's fivesteps.
I think I feel you know,because describing the problem,
the observation or the gridlock,that two-thirds of the
(51:09):
situation that's always going tobe with us, this is what's
important to me, to our project,this is what I would like and
if I'm very firm, it's what Iwant, and so you can calibrate
what you're asking for.
And of course you know ifyou're more introverted when you
(51:32):
say and I want people listen,it has impact.
But you can say you know Iwould like or I think it would
be good if we did X, Y, z, andthen that last one I appreciate
other people may see itdifferently it still gives you.
You don't have to say it inthat order, but if you have all
(51:53):
those five points.
When you're being assertive,you've sort of covered off a lot
of information in a very simpleframework.
Speaker 2 (52:02):
So it might be.
Speaker 3 (52:02):
I appreciate that Joanne has very strong views
about, as she said in describing, the situation with the
allocation of resources, andshe's highlighted these points,
but I think what's important isthat we maybe get a range of
(52:24):
opinions around the room,because I've noticed that this
is where we get stuck and Ithink perhaps there's this early
element when you think aboutyou know, once you have that
framework in mind, you canorganise information very
helpfully, very strongly.
Speaker 2 (52:44):
That is a brilliant framework, elizabeth, and a
perfect way to wrap up.
So pay attention to Elizabeth'sfive-point framework the next
time you find yourself caught ina conflict and maybe having to
play mediator, because yourintroverted nature and your
quiet strengths make you theperfect person to observe and to
reflect back and help the groupmove forward in a way that is
(53:08):
mutually respectful.
So, elizabeth, thank you somuch for coming on the Quiet
Warrior podcast today.
Speaker 3 (53:16):
What is the best way for people to connect with you.
Well, my website is ElizabethWilliamson Solutions.
It's a long, long typingjourney, and so you can connect
with me by that or LinkedIn, andI offer a complimentary
30-minute discovery call so thatI can understand what people
(53:36):
would like to work on and how Imight best assist them and, you
know, tailoring our approach,which might be coaching,
conflict, coaching skills, andthat can be really, really
helpful.
I have this problem I reallywant to be more skilful, or it
might be you know a familydynamic where I really want to
be more skillful, or it might beyou know a family dynamic where
I really want the familydynamic to change and I want to
(53:59):
step out of being in this rolein the family, or it just might
be.
I'm sick of the arguments ofmyself and I would like to
change my thinking about this soI can be more effective.
And you can book online via mywebsite.
Speaker 2 (54:17):
Fantastic.
I can see how much value thatwould be for anybody, whether
we're going through internal orexternal conflict.
So if you've enjoyed thisconversation and want more like
this, make sure to leave afive-star rating and a review so
that the Quiet Warrior podcastcan reach more introverts around
the world.
See you on the next episode.
I'm so grateful that you'rehere today.
Speaker 1 (54:40):
If you found this content valuable, please share
it on your social media channelsand subscribe to the show on
your favorite listening platform.
Together, we can help moreintroverts thrive To receive
more uplifting content like this.
Connect with me on Instagram at.
Speaker 2 (54:55):
Serena, Lo Quiet Warrior Coach.
Speaker 1 (54:58):
Thank you for sharing your time and your energy with
me.
See you on the next episode.
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