October 5, 2025 • 42 mins
What if money wasn’t just about numbers, but a mirror reflecting your inner world? In this conversation, I sit down with Monica Kaufman, trauma-informed financial planner and founder of Harmony Wealth Academy, to explore how our personal histories, traumas, and inherited money stories shape the way we save, spend, and invest.
Monica shares why she believes that mastering money begins with healing what’s inside. From financial imposter syndrome to the shame many introverts feel about asking for help, Monica offers both compassion and practical wisdom for anyone ready to reclaim control over their financial life.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode
- Why money is a reflection of our inner emotional state, not just a financial tool
- The hidden connection between trauma, control, and financial abuse
- How financial imposter syndrome keeps high achievers stuck—and what to do about it
- The difference between “earned dopamine” and “bad dopamine” in spending habits
- Why introverts often struggle to ask for financial help and how to build confidence
- Practical steps to rewrite old money stories and create affirmations that work
- The role of micro-steps and community support in achieving lasting financial change
About Monica Kaufman
Monica Kaufman is a trauma-informed financial planner and the founder of Harmony Wealth Academy. She helps high-earning professionals—especially women—gain confidence and clarity in their money decisions without shame or overwhelm. Through her academy, she teaches not just the American financial system, but also the mindset shifts necessary for lasting financial freedom.
Connect with Monica:
Website: harmonywealthacademy.com
Introvert Resources:
To support your Quiet Warrior journey, join The Visible Introvert newsletter at serenalow.com.au.
This episode was edited by Aura House Productions
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Serena Gov.
If you're used to hearing thatintroverts are shy, anxious, and
social, and lack goodcommunication and teachers
skills, then this podcast is foryou.
You're about to fall in lovewith the calm, introspective,
and profound person that youare.
Discover what's fun, unique, andpowerful about being an
(00:21):
introvert and how to make theelegant project from quiet
achiever to quiet warrior inyour life and work.
Anytime you want, in more waysthan you imagined possible.
Welcome.
Today's guest is Monica Kaufman,a former-informed financial
planner who has navigatedcaregiving, corporate
(00:43):
leadership, andentrepreneurship.
She's also the founder ofHarmony Wealth Academy, a
financial coaching platformdesigned for high-earning
professionals, especially womenwho want to feel confident and
in control of their moneywithout shame or overwhelm.
Welcome, Monica, to the QuietWarrior Podcast.
SPEAKER_02 (01:04):
Thank you for having me.
I'm so happy to be here.
SPEAKER_00 (01:07):
Monica, can you take us back to perhaps a bit of your
story and what led you on thispath to become a financial
planner?
SPEAKER_01 (01:16):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (01:18):
I started off life and professional life and
economic research and hated itbecause I wasn't working with
regular people.
I was working with numbers thatdidn't mean much of anything.
And eventually I wound up goinginto financial advisory after
working with small businessowners, mostly women.
And it became this divergence ofthe business, the market, the
(01:41):
numbers, and the people.
And part of it was I needed togo back to work because my
husband had developeddepression.
And it's been a chronic battlefor him.
And it has affected our entirefamily life.
And throughout the whole processof this, I realized money is
nothing more than a set of toolsin your hands.
What you do with it is areflection of what's going on
(02:02):
inside of you.
So I think I said this to youprivately, but the arc of my
life only makes sense when Ilook back on it.
And money is a way masteringyour money and mastering your
internal emotional needs andworking towards building out
(02:24):
goals and protecting family andprotecting and nurturing what
matters.
When you see it as just a set oftools to get there, it winds up
shifting your entirerelationship with it.
And I've had the privilege ofwatching not just other people
go through this, but as I lookback on my life, everything that
I went through as a mom, as awife, and as a businesswoman
(02:49):
conjugate congealed.
You can't separate and segmentyourself out.
You wind up every area informson the other.
And I mean, I always had my owntraumas with it too.
Um my mother was born in 1938.
Her parents were really hammeredhard by the Great Depression,
and there wasn't enough food inthe house.
(03:10):
So they divided the food up inthe kitchen, and she got less
than her older brother.
And she got her first jobbetween second and third grade.
I don't know how on earth shegot her job, but that was how
she paid for her school clothesand her school shoes.
So it was always important toher to have nice things.
It was always important to herto be dressed well and to be
presentable.
(03:31):
And that is something that Igrew up with.
And she pulled herself out,managed to go to a very good
school, suffered a little bitbecause she came from the wrong
side of the tracks back then.
And all of that, she was in agreat place, she kept building
it out, and then she gotdivorced, and all of her fears
came crashing down on her, andthat affected us.
I was six and a half when thathappened.
(03:52):
So all of that also informed myvision on all of this.
And I watched my motherstruggles.
And I think something else thatI think people don't realize is
that you can be very welleducated, you can be involved in
different things, but thatdoesn't mean you understand the
financial system.
And I watched my mother struggleto learn these things because
(04:13):
she hadn't been taught it.
And my mother's a brilliantwoman.
And it's one of those thingswhere I look at this and I'm
like, okay, it's no one's fault.
Everybody's gone through this.
This has been going on forgenerations.
We need to do better with it.
So all of that came together.
SPEAKER_00 (04:30):
Thank you for sharing that.
I see that it comes from a verydeep and personal lived
experience.
You mentioned money as a set oftools.
So what is on the other side ofthat?
If we can see money as a set oftools as well, what's this
what's the opposite of viewingmoney that way?
SPEAKER_02 (04:51):
I think what people need to understand is that money
has no meaning except for whatyou give it.
And it's not just what you sayabout it, it's what you do with
it.
So if I use my moneyconstructively, then I'm going
to, and if I come at it from apositive place inside, I'm going
to see positive outcomes.
(05:13):
If I'm using it to mask feelingsof inadequacy, fear, anger, it's
going to come out in ugly ways.
And so I I've had clients, I'vehad one in particular that went
through a particularly nastydivorce where he was more than
willing to, you know, there's adesire to hurt people.
(05:38):
There's a desire when they'rehurt to hurt somebody else or to
lash out.
And money is just another toolwith which people can do that.
You don't realize that it it isan extension of you, and what
you do with it reflects what'sgoing on inside of you.
SPEAKER_00 (05:55):
So money is an amplifier, is what you're
saying.
SPEAKER_02 (05:58):
It is, but it's also a means of expressing.
So even if it doesn't amplifyit, it illuminates.
SPEAKER_01 (06:07):
Does that make sense?
It does.
SPEAKER_00 (06:10):
It does.
Because it's then it depends onwhat's inside yourself.
So if what's inside is a tinything, it can be made bigger, it
can be made brighter.
You can shine a light on it.
But if the thing inside is notfundamentally a good thing or a
thing that's worth illuminating,then all it does is uh make it
(06:33):
more obvious.
SPEAKER_02 (06:34):
Yes.
Yes.
There's a joke around here thatpeople engage in retail therapy.
So when they don't feel well orsomething's happened and they're
upset, they go out and shop.
Okay.
Really?
Does that what we're doing tofeel better?
Is that the dopamine hit ofbuying something?
Is that gonna when you thinkabout the biochemistry of that,
(06:57):
you'll get that hit.
And then the next day you'regonna feel worse.
And it's gonna take an evenbigger hit to get you back to
where you were.
Dopamine is one of those thingswhere there's earned dopamine
and then there's bad dopamine.
And earned dopamine is when youaccomplish a goal, when you go
after something, you engage inthe work and you wind up
(07:17):
resetting higher and higher.
When you're engaging indestructive behavior, it's like
an addiction.
It resets lower and it takesmore and more to lift you.
SPEAKER_00 (07:28):
So you're saying that if I were to use my lunch
hour for retail therapy to getaway from the stress of the
office, that would be an exampleof bad dopamine being Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (07:38):
Well, it depends.
Are you buying?
Are you buying?
Or I I'll admit something.
There are times, especiallysince the shutdown, when I would
walk around the mall.
Why?
I didn't shop, but I wanted tosee other people.
My social.
When we were denied the abilityto see other people, I wanted to
see them.
And that was a place to do it.
I actually like going to themall with some of the um elderly
(08:02):
who like to walk around the mallearly in the morning before the
stores are open.
It's bright, it's sunshiny, it'sit's beautiful.
It's there's security cameras,there's security cameras, people
there.
It's great.
Am I is that retail therapy?
Am I engaging in buying?
So again, it's really just aquestion of what you're doing.
Look, if you are at a pointwhere you're financially fit or
(08:26):
you're you're able to go beyondcarrying the load of paying your
goals and and funding the thingsyou need to do, and you want to
do this for a little bit, okay.
But the question is, where areyou and what are you doing it
for?
And if you're doing it to makeyourself feel better, it's an
object.
What are you doing?
SPEAKER_01 (08:47):
I know people who give charity when they feel low,
and I think that's a betterexpression.
It's like I'm helping somebodyelse out.
I'm in a place where I can helpsomebody and makes me feel good
to do it.
I think that's a healthier wayto look at it.
So you're saying that one has tobe financially fit before
(09:13):
indulging in something likeretail therapy.
SPEAKER_02 (09:16):
I would say that yes.
Um, and the way I would lookphrase this for your listeners
is that think about physicalfitness.
You start off with function,everything has to work, and then
you get to health where it workswell together.
Fitness is when you're able tocarry the load, whatever the
load is.
And for financial fitness, whatI would encourage you to say is,
(09:39):
what are my goals and am Ifunding them adequately so that
I'll get to where I want to goand be when I want to be there?
Performance is when you can gowell beyond that.
And you can indulge when you'reat that point.
Okay, or you can save as a goalbecause you want to indulge at
some point.
But the other thing is, are youfunding?
(10:02):
Are you preparing for what yourgoals are?
SPEAKER_01 (10:04):
Are you actually in a place where you're taking care
of your needs and the needs ofyour family?
So that's back to the what wewere taught, I guess, growing
up.
SPEAKER_00 (10:18):
To live within our means, to be responsible, to
save for a rainy day.
So all those maxims are theystill apply, don't they?
They are hallmarks of beingresponsible.
SPEAKER_02 (10:31):
Right.
And what is what is responsible?
If you break it about apart,it's being responsible.
You can choose your response.
And really that's the flip sideof what freedom is.
I'm free to choose how I'm goingto act.
So there's an old joke, youknow, retirement comes.
The question is whether or notyou're prepared for it.
SPEAKER_01 (10:54):
And it'll be here whether you're ready or you're
not.
SPEAKER_02 (10:57):
And that's something that I look at and I say, okay,
are you ready for retirement?
What happens if it comes early?
Is it worth it to you to spendon this now?
Or what are you doing?
What are you funding with this?
What do you want?
I'm just like everybody else.
There are times when I like asplurge, and I'm not saying not
(11:18):
to do that.
What I am saying is think ofyour goals and think of what
you're building and what you'replanting.
What do you want in your life?
One of the things I say topeople is I need them to dream.
And this is usually hard forpeople who've gone through
trauma.
They don't allow themselves todream because, on some levels,
they don't believe it's going tocome true.
(11:39):
They don't believe it's going tohappen for them.
And giving them license to dreamis a little bit of a challenge.
SPEAKER_01 (11:46):
It's believing they're worthy of having their
goals met.
What do you see as theintersection between trauma and
money and people who areintroverted?
It depends on where the traumais coming from.
Um I have a person that I careabout a great deal who admitted
(12:15):
to me um a few weeks ago that itwasn't until April that she
realized that her marriage ofmore than three decades was
dysfunctional and abusive.
SPEAKER_02 (12:26):
And money was a means of exerting control.
That her spouse used money as away to do it.
Money, because it's a tool,becomes a means of control for
quite a few people.
And for people who areintroverted, there's a shame
factor, there's a fear factor.
(12:47):
It becomes a means.
Money is a means of justinterfacing and taking care of
yourself and working with therest of the world and getting
what you need.
And so if somebody controls yourmoney or controls your choices,
whether it's through verbalmeans or whether it's through
more aggressive means orassertive means, they're
(13:09):
controlling you on a very realsense.
And so you have to takeownership of your money, be
present in it, be visible in it,and have control over it and
what you do with it in order totruly be free.
And sometimes when you'redealing with someone who's
overcome a trauma or an abusivesituation, the money was part of
(13:31):
the means of control and part ofthe means of abuse.
So you have to take that back.
SPEAKER_01 (13:35):
And that requires a great degree of confidence.
Sorry.
No, go for it.
SPEAKER_00 (13:47):
How how does one acquire that confidence if they
have been the passive or maybeeven the victim in an abusive
relationship?
So they haven't had maybe theyhaven't had access to the money.
Maybe their economicindependence has been
undermined.
Maybe they were not allowed togo out to work.
(14:07):
So how would they then get backthat confidence?
SPEAKER_02 (14:11):
I knew of a case that was here where there was a
woman, she was a mother, she hadtwo children, and her ex-husband
planned for five or six yearsbefore he filed for divorce.
Actually, I know of a couple ofcases, but this one I know quite
well.
And when she realized that hewas leaving, something inside of
(14:34):
her snapped because he wasn'tshowing any of the money.
And she managed somehow to get ahold of a forensic accountant.
And they were able to do someauditing work and they were able
to dig up where the money was.
And the more she discovered, andthe more the lies became
(14:55):
apparent, the angrier she got.
(15:18):
She's no longer with us.
But you can take back yourpower, but it takes a tremendous
amount of strength to not thenrepeat the example on somebody
else because that's what you'velearned.
And it's a really fundamentallystrong dynamic.
(15:38):
It's something that requiresmore skills in terms of the
emotional healing than I have,but I've watched it in play.
So what happens with mosttherapists, I think, and I think
you can speak to this more thanI can, is that it's it's a
vehicle.
It's another one of those areaswhere the dysfunction and the
anger and the rage and the hurtand the fear all show up.
(16:02):
And it's it's a question ofreally getting the help that
person needs, the emotionalsupport.
Yes.
I was proud of that woman foractually hiring the forensic
accountant.
I was proud of the other womanthat told me this four weeks ago
that she left that she had adysfunctional marriage, that it
was not what it needed to be.
And she then went and managed tohandle and get the divorce, and
(16:27):
they're in the process of theproperty settlement.
It's a really tough struggle,and it takes a tremendous amount
of strength to do it.
I have another person that I'veknown for decades who was in a
very, very abusive relationship,very abusive marriage.
And she hadn't graduated, shegraduated from high school when
(16:51):
they got married, she hadn'tgone to school, didn't have a
career, was in a very religiousenvironment, managed to get back
to school, managed to startplanning on leaving, went to
therapy, went to therapy, keptsaying that she was going to
leave.
And finally, somebody said,Okay, when are you leaving?
And she gave herself a datecertain.
She left with nothing.
(17:12):
She had some money in the bank.
She rented a room from anelderly couple and she cleaned
toilets to make them enoughmoney to finish her schooling
and get a job.
And got her divorce, gotremarried, and is living a
beautiful life.
But it took a tremendous amountof strength.
There was nothing legal that shewas unwilling to do to make sure
(17:34):
she didn't have to go back tothat.
Wow.
And with her, she had quite afew children, one of whom had
some major challenges.
And she really, I don't thinkshe was willing to allow herself
to do that until he was in amore stable, you know, permanent
situation for him as an adult.
(17:55):
But she put up with that forthat long.
And then once she was ready, shejust moved in and did it.
SPEAKER_00 (18:02):
So it sounds to me like what you're saying is that
there is no timeline for thiskind of change, because you it
needs tremendous strength.
You probably need a supportnetwork if you're not going to
go through this yourself,because it would be very, very
hard.
It would take a toll in everyaspect of your life to be
dealing with that kind ofcrisis.
SPEAKER_02 (18:23):
To be willing to step out and take the financial
risk, leave with nothing, notknowing what her settlement was
going to be in a divorce, rent aroom from an elderly family,
okay, and clean toilets andclean houses in order to make
sure that she had the money sheneeded to finish her schooling
and work.
(18:44):
That was what it took.
And if you know, she didn't askher family, her original family
for any help.
She just went and did it.
And it she reached a point whereshe literally could not live
with it any longer.
And it does take a supportnetwork.
I I don't know anybody who canget through any of this stuff
(19:05):
without support.
SPEAKER_01 (19:06):
And finding the right support is really
critical.
SPEAKER_00 (19:13):
In our pre-interview conversation, we talked about
financial imposter syndrome.
What does that mean?
Because we know what impostersyndrome is, but what does the
financial aspect of it mean?
SPEAKER_02 (19:27):
There's a lot of people who, based on messages
they absorbed from childhood andfrom the environment in which
they lived and still live, thatthey may not deserve to have
wealth, that they may notdeserve to have what they want
and what they crave.
And you have to overcome that.
Okay.
There are people that I know ofwho are like, well, you know,
this isn't something my family'sever done.
(19:49):
So what?
Okay, I'm sorry your familydidn't do it up until now.
That doesn't mean you can't.
Okay.
What was the message and wheredid it come from?
And it's very difficult.
Your mind, you cannot go.
And I say this to people all thetime: no one can go where their
mind hasn't gone before them.
If you don't believe that youcan do something, you can't do
(20:12):
it.
So, I mean, I can't tell you howmany times I've heard this said
in the industry.
Whether you think you can or youthink you can't, you're probably
right.
And you really genuinely have toshift the way you think about
yourself and give yourselfpermission to succeed
financially.
SPEAKER_01 (20:31):
And if you don't, you're not going to.
It's interesting.
SPEAKER_02 (20:38):
When you take a look in the US, lottery winners, most
of them wind up broke, um,bankrupt, and some of them wind
up dead within a very shortperiod of time.
SPEAKER_01 (20:50):
It's as if they don't believe they deserved it.
SPEAKER_00 (20:56):
So it's not just about the money, it's about is
it safe for me to have thismoney?
Is it safe for me to manage, uhto grow, to uh be entitled to,
to walk around with, to expressmyself through this amount of
money?
SPEAKER_02 (21:15):
It is.
And and here's the other thingabout this: I've noticed the
people who are truly financiallysuccessful and comfortable in
their own skin, it doesn'tmatter to them.
I know several people who havebeen financially successful for
years.
You would never know it based onwhat they drive and how they
dress.
They're presentable, they'reclean, they're put together, but
(21:35):
they're not wearing labels andthey're not flaunting it.
They don't care.
They're not trying to impressanybody.
And what they really want isgenuine friendship.
The research shows that peoplewho are financially successful
recognize that the best thingsin life are, you know, almost
free.
Spending time with family,spending time with the
community, being outside nature.
(21:56):
Okay, exercise, spending timewith the people you love.
You don't have to pay for that.
You provide, you take care ofyourself, you take care of your
family, you take care of yourcommunity, but it's not the same
thing.
SPEAKER_00 (22:13):
How do you see introverts who tend also to be
overthinkers, you know,perfectionists.
How do you see them in terms ofthe way they manage money?
What are some of the problemsyou've noticed?
SPEAKER_02 (22:29):
I think there's a reluctance to ask for help.
I think there's an expectationof I should have known this.
Well, okay, nobody's bornknowing this.
It doesn't come from osmosis.
There's information that's outthere on the internet, and some
of it's accurate and some of itisn't.
How do you know what's accurateand what isn't?
It's as if they don't givethemselves permission to say,
(22:50):
hey, this is something I'venever learned.
It's a system.
And how do I get the help Ineed?
How do I figure it out?
And it's it's difficult.
There are some programs, like inthe United States, that are very
social.
And if you know an introvertwere to go in there, that'd be a
little intimidating.
Do they want to discuss theproblems out in front of
everybody?
Finding the help you need is notso easy.
(23:12):
In the US, financial advisorsare not really compensated or
trained to talk about some ofthese issues, a lot of these
issues, or to teach the system.
That's part of the reason why Icreated the academy.
But the other piece is, youknow, where do you find what you
need?
How do you find it?
And then there's the secondpiece.
Okay, here's what I need to do.
(23:33):
And it requires a shift in how Ilive my life when it comes to
money.
Here's where I need to go.
Here are the gaps.
You know, here's this gap, thisopportunity.
How do I live the change?
You know, I joke about this allthe time.
We know what we need to do tolose weight.
That doesn't mean we do it.
(23:53):
So we can read the books all thetime, but if we don't have the
support underneath us and aroundus, how do we get it done?
And when is it safe to expressthese things?
Who wants to like put theirdirty laundry out in public?
I mean, who wants to display it?
So, yeah, it's hard.
SPEAKER_00 (24:11):
It's a very hard thing to come out.
Yes, because at the very startof this conversation, you
mentioned a game around money.
And that's a that's anunderpinning element that you
know it's not just introvertsthat experience that.
I think a lot of us have grownup with money stories, money
beliefs inherited fromchildhood, from our upbringing,
from our environment, the thingswe hear our adults say uh around
(24:34):
it.
For instance, um maybe even theway we react to somebody else's
access or aspirations, you know,those people might hear someone
else who is perhaps their ownage saying, someday I'm going to
be a CEO or someday I'm going tobe a millionaire.
And then the response might belaughter that's instead of go
(24:57):
for it, you know, I believe inyou.
So I think these things aredeeply ingrained, and a lot of
times we're not even consciousthat we have absorbed these
sorts of beliefs about what wecan and we can't achieve.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (25:09):
And I think I mentioned to you as a child, my
mother always had this thing,you want a new outfit.
You and when my parents gotdivorced, a lot of that ended.
And I'll tell you, there wastime recently when I was about
to go into something new.
And I was like, oh, I'm goingand I'm not wearing a new
outfit, a new pair of shoes.
Why am I uncomfortable nothaving this?
(25:31):
Do I need this?
Where did this come from?
Just because this is somethingthat my mother experienced does
not mean I have to carry forwardin my own life.
And that's the whole processthat, you know, I'm coming to as
a middle-aged adult, and it'shealing myself.
We do have the ability to bringthese things to the surface,
(25:53):
look at them with a little bitof detachment and say, is this
really mine to carry or not?
Is this something I want tocarry?
You don't have to carry thosestories from the past forward.
You don't.
You can be aware of them, youcan honor them, you can say this
is part of the whole story,reflects some suffering from the
past, but I can let it go.
(26:14):
And that's that's key andimportant.
Dealing with money and dealingwith a lot of these blocks that
get in the way really requires asensitivity to the stories of
the past and what's happened inthe past.
And saying, okay, my future isover here.
This is what I want.
I have the right to go for it.
(26:36):
And that's something that a lotof people have a hard time
saying.
I am worthy of going for it.
And I want to hear people sayit.
I want them to say, hey, this iswhat I want, and this is what
it's gonna take.
Let's get let's get it done.
SPEAKER_01 (26:49):
And based on your experience, how do people let go
of those old stories and thensay, I'm worthy?
SPEAKER_02 (26:59):
Okay, so one of the things that I'll do with people
is I'll walk them throughaffirmations.
And affirmations, as you know,have to be written in a way that
reflects a lack of doubt.
You don't have to leave room fordoubt because if you do that,
your mind is going to go towardsthe lowest common denominator.
But I know this because I haveimposter syndrome.
(27:20):
When I do an affirmation andit's in the first person, it
sounds unbelievably harsh.
And I'll never forget I listenedto something from Andrew
Huberman, and then I listened tomyself give affirmations and I
realized I would never speak tosomeone else the way I speak to
myself.
I would never use thatharshness, that judgment.
And I switched over to thesecond person.
(27:42):
And I basically said, I'm goingto speak to myself the way I
would speak to somebody elsethat I care enormously about and
whom I want to succeed.
And it became much more gentle,much more positive, much more
encouraging.
So that's part of it.
You have to make that switchsometimes and be aware of what
you're doing.
The other thing that I'll dowith people is I'll have them
craft a future self-vision.
(28:03):
What does that look like?
And I'll ask them to do thingslike, what do you see?
Where are you?
Describe the room, the colors,the furniture, what's going on
around you, the smells.
Are there plants in the room?
Are there flowers?
Are there chocolate chipcookies?
Whatever it is.
I want them to put as much asthey can about what they can,
(28:25):
their five senses.
See, hear, smell, touch, andtaste.
And I have them write it out byhand, record it into their
phone.
And every night before they goto sleep, and every morning when
they wake up, I have them playit to themselves.
It's their own voice and they'respeaking to themselves.
And what I'm looking to do isthe same thing that people do
(28:47):
with vision boards, is I'mlooking to get their mind, their
subconscious, to align with whatthe goal is.
SPEAKER_01 (28:58):
So there are other techniques that we use, but
those are two of the big ones.
SPEAKER_00 (29:01):
Yeah.
I love that you use the fivesenses because some people would
be more hands-on, some peoplewould respond by listening, and
some people have to visualizethings.
So that covers all the aspects.
SPEAKER_01 (29:15):
So uh tell us more about the academy.
Who is it for and who do youhelp?
SPEAKER_02 (29:22):
It is for people who genuinely want to build out a
secure future, who are lookingand saying, I'm making money.
Why am I not building wealth?
Am I actually going to get towhere I want?
And it requires a total shift inframework.
So, for example, I think I'vementioned, oh, I didn't mention
this to you.
70% of the designer items, theluxury items, are bought by
(29:46):
people who are middle class andlower.
The people who are building outwealth are not spending their
money on that.
They're spending the money oninvestments.
It's a functional purse, it'sbeautiful, it works.
It doesn't have to have thatdesigner label on it.
And the reason for that is verysimple.
They have a goal that theyconsider to be more worthy of
(30:08):
the money.
They're being intentional andvery strategic with their money.
They're giving themselvespermission to do that.
So I'm looking for people whoare willing to make that change,
who want to make that change.
I'm looking for people who havebuilt success in other areas of
their life, it doesn't matterwhich, and who say, hey, I'm
willing to do this.
You can't work and give yourselfpermission to succeed in one
(30:32):
area of your life and not giveyourself permission to succeed
in the other area.
It will bleed down.
You have to give yourselfpermission to succeed all the
way around.
So I'm looking for people whoare intentional.
I'm looking for people who areready for change.
And if there's a problem and abump along the road, we'll deal
with it because I expect thosebumps to come out, if that makes
(30:55):
sense.
Most of the time, there's anemotional block that stands in
the way or that prompts peopleto come in and see me, anyways.
If that makes sense.
There's usually an incentivebeyond the money that is the
motivator.
SPEAKER_01 (31:12):
Yes.
The cosmic wake-up call.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (31:16):
And the question is, what is it?
And what do we need to do to getthem past it?
And once they start to seesuccess, and once they start to
see trust in me that I've earnedit, they can then open up to me
and explain what the issue is,and then we start problem
solving.
SPEAKER_00 (31:35):
So what you do is you offer a sensitive guided
experience through somethingthat is very challenging for all
of us at deep levels because itrequires us to actually go
within and ask some bigquestions about ourselves, about
(31:55):
where we've come from, aboutwhere we are going and what we
want.
And am I worthy of it?
And yes, I'm worthy of it.
So how do I go and do thisthing?
And so that is a very involvedprocess and it requires a lot of
empathy, a lot of support, a lotof non-judgment.
And I think that is what youprovide inside your academy.
SPEAKER_02 (32:16):
That's the goal, because that's the way lasting
change happens.
And the other goal is to providecommunity where they can speak
and be around people who aregoing through the same things.
The challenge with that is thatcommunity is a little bit harder
to build trust.
And so I don't want, like one ofthe things I'll say to people is
your identity is yours.
You fought long and hard for it.
(32:36):
I need you to protect it.
So if you wish to share thingswithin a community, make people
earn the trust.
Don't share too soon.
Okay.
If you're facing challenges,build it slowly.
Like everything is a question ofbaby steps.
And so if the big steps are, ifwhat you're looking at is
challenging you and making youmore anxious, let's break it
(32:57):
down into smaller and smallersteps so that we can actually
create forward momentum.
Anxiety and fear really trulyhas to be overcome through
motion.
And one of the things that we dowork on is building up that
adversity quotient, thatknowledge that you can take on
(33:17):
harder and harder challenges.
But we start as small as we needto start.
SPEAKER_00 (33:24):
I love that.
The idea of micro steps insteadof massive transformation all at
once.
SPEAKER_01 (33:30):
Massive transformation all at once
doesn't work.
If you're the therapist, tell mewhen that works.
SPEAKER_00 (33:37):
Tell me when that's sustainable.
It's never worked for me and forthe people that I know.
And I think sometimes it is thethose seminars, certain seminars
we go to that encourage thatkind of transformation and I
think set a very unhealthy baror expectation of what
(33:58):
transformation actually is.
Because what we want istransformation that sticks after
that weekend.
When I go back on Monday to mynormal routine, will I still be
able to think that way with thatnew mindset?
Or have I gone back to mydefault self and then have to
start again?
SPEAKER_02 (34:15):
Right.
And that's the problem.
It's building out systems takestime and people need to give
themselves that time.
So one of the things that Ithink is important is that there
has to be complete honesty.
I have to earn your respect andtrust through honesty.
I don't want you to give it tome immediately.
Okay, that's unreasonable.
Okay.
Make me earn it.
(34:36):
And make me keep it bymaintaining and showing up and
doing what I say I'm going todo.
And I think that's reallyimportant.
One of the problems with myindustry is that a lot of people
who are in it are veryaccomplished at having that
emotional bond with people, butaren't necessarily as
(34:56):
accomplished with what they'redoing.
And in my opinion, especiallywithin my industry, the only way
my industry is going to getbetter and people are going to
get better results and feel morecomfortable with their advisors
is when their advisors areforced to perform better.
The stronger the clients are,the more they can demand.
SPEAKER_01 (35:20):
And the more they'll understand where it's reasonable
to demand.
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (35:24):
It's it's it's the only way to make things better
is for people to take to havemore ability to set their
expectations and enforce them.
SPEAKER_00 (35:36):
So you're speaking about competence for both
parties, both the advisors aswell as the clients.
SPEAKER_02 (35:43):
Right.
The advisors want to be inbusiness and want to make money.
So if the market demands thatthey do better, they'll do
better.
SPEAKER_01 (35:53):
It's really simple.
SPEAKER_00 (35:56):
And for the client to demand that, they have to be,
they have to have enoughknowledge.
They have to be able to feelconfident that they know what
they're talking about, they knowthe questions to ask, they know
what to demand.
SPEAKER_02 (36:08):
Correct.
And more than that, okay, theyalso need to understand
something.
It is a privilege for me to siton the same side of the table
and work with a client.
It is a privilege for me to beon a Zoom call with a client
working through a problem.
I don't forget for one minutethat it is a privilege for me to
(36:28):
work with people because theirmoney is the way they care for
themselves and the people theylove now and in the future.
And that is a heavyresponsibility.
So it is a privilege, and itmeans I have to bring my best to
it every day.
Clients need to expect thatadvisors are going to understand
(36:50):
that it is a privilege to workwith them.
It drives me crazy when I hear aclient say, Well, you know,
maybe my account is too small.
Really?
No.
Okay, maybe, maybe it's smalland it's harder to manage, but
that doesn't mean you don'tdeserve respect.
And that doesn't mean you don'tdeserve somebody's best efforts
at that time.
SPEAKER_01 (37:14):
Thank you for that reminder.
SPEAKER_00 (37:15):
So there is responsibility to on both parts
on on every person that managesmoney, has access to that money,
has um in a position to makedecisions about the money.
So this is all back toself-awareness again, about
doing that inner work to healour money wounds, money stories,
(37:36):
money beliefs, at the same timeacquiring that knowledge so that
we become competent enough toadvocate for ourselves and look
after others as well.
unknown (37:46):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (37:46):
So what is the one?
I'll go with one other thing.
I find that when you realizethat you've been abused or
maltreated, you start seeing thesame patterns in a lot of the
people around you.
And I've seen people, a lot ofpeople come in to see me because
something has gone wrong.
Okay, something has gone wrongalong the way.
(38:07):
And when it's been an issue withan advisor or two, the question
is once they start to see thepattern, they can't unsee it.
And so you have to set the barhigher and enforce those
boundaries and say, these are myexpectations.
If you're not going to meetthem, you can't meet them.
That's fine, but I will goelsewhere.
SPEAKER_01 (38:28):
We're not going to pretend otherwise.
And sometimes that's a littlescary because you realize what
you've been putting up with andtolerating.
SPEAKER_02 (38:38):
And when you have to retrain people and how they're
to treat you, there's alwaysthat pushback of saying, no,
change, change back, changeback.
SPEAKER_01 (38:46):
Okay, I'm walking.
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (38:52):
That is a huge conversation around boundaries,
around self-respect, around whatam I, and it's back to that
worthiness, isn't it?
I'm worthy of respect.
I'm worthy of being treatedbetter than this.
SPEAKER_01 (39:06):
I'm worthy of articulating what I need and
having that listened to.
Yes.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
What is the best way for peopleto get in touch with you?
SPEAKER_02 (39:26):
I'm always happy to respond.
If somebody wants to send me anemail, they can.
I will give you a link that theycan sign up for a free
consultation where if they arehaving a block or there's
something that's on their mind,I'm happy to give them some
time.
We can work through it a littlebit.
I have different programs.
Um, it's theharmonywealthacademy.com, but
(39:48):
they can also just, you know,I'll give you the link for that
and people can reach out.
So I'm happy to help.
SPEAKER_00 (39:55):
Thank you.
And just for clarity for ourlisteners, this is pertaining
more to the American financesituation.
SPEAKER_02 (40:04):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (40:04):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (40:05):
But if somebody has a question and they're talking
about an emotional block onmoney and they want to just have
a brief conversation about that,I'm not going to give them
advice.
The purpose of the academy is toteach the system.
So I'm not coming in and tellingyou what to do.
I want you to walk throughwhat's going on.
(40:25):
So there's a mentality piece,and then there's the American
system.
So even with American clientswho are inside the academy, I
want them to stand back andunderstand there's no pitching,
I'm not making recommendations.
What I'm saying is here's thesystem and let's walk through
it.
This is what the shifts are.
This is what this is, what'sgoing on with your money story?
(40:47):
What do where do we need towork?
That's a different approach.
If there's something thatcatches fire, there's something
that's urgent, that's adifferent contract.
Okay.
So if somebody has a questionabout mindset or there's a block
and they want to reach out to meon that, I'm happy to talk to
you.
SPEAKER_00 (41:03):
Beautiful.
Thank you so much for clarifyingthat.
Thank you, Monica, for sharingyour time and your energy with
us today.
SPEAKER_02 (41:10):
Thank you for the opportunity.
And I very much appreciate whatyou're doing.
And I just want to encouragepeople to really believe that
they can have what they reallytruly want, that it's okay to
dream and that it's okay tobuild a positive future.
They don't, wherever they are,they're not a plant, they're not
a tree, they're not plant,they're not stuck.
They can move.
(41:32):
Beautiful.
SPEAKER_00 (41:34):
If you enjoyed today's episode, be sure to
leave a five-star rating andreview to help the Quiet Warrior
podcast reach more introvertsand quiet achievers around the
world.
I've also put together a freeresource for you called the
Introvert Toolkit, which is fullof valuable tips for introverts
leaders working with introvertsand parents of introverted
children.
The link to download it is inthe show notes, so make sure you
(41:56):
look out for it.
See you on the next episode.
I'm so grateful that you're heretoday.
If you found this contentvaluable, please share it on
your social media channels andsubscribe to the show on your
favorite listening platform.
Together we can help moreintroverts thrive.
To receive more upliftingcontent like this, connect with
(42:18):
me on Instagram at SerenaLoQuiet Warrior Coach.
Thank you for sharing your timeand your energy with me.
See you on the next episode.
Hi, I'm Serena Gov.
If you're used to hearing thatintroverts are shy, anxious, and
social, and lack goodcommunication and teachers
skills, then this podcast is foryou.
You're about to fall in lovewith the calm, introspective,
and profound person that youare.
Discover what's fun, unique, andpowerful about being an
(00:21):
introvert and how to make theelegant project from quiet
achiever to quiet warrior inyour life and work.
Anytime you want, in more waysthan you imagined possible.
Welcome.
Today's guest is Monica Kaufman,a former-informed financial
planner who has navigatedcaregiving, corporate
(00:43):
leadership, andentrepreneurship.
She's also the founder ofHarmony Wealth Academy, a
financial coaching platformdesigned for high-earning
professionals, especially womenwho want to feel confident and
in control of their moneywithout shame or overwhelm.
Welcome, Monica, to the QuietWarrior Podcast.
SPEAKER_02 (01:04):
Thank you for having me.
I'm so happy to be here.
SPEAKER_00 (01:07):
Monica, can you take us back to perhaps a bit of your
story and what led you on thispath to become a financial
planner?
SPEAKER_01 (01:16):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (01:18):
I started off life and professional life and
economic research and hated itbecause I wasn't working with
regular people.
I was working with numbers thatdidn't mean much of anything.
And eventually I wound up goinginto financial advisory after
working with small businessowners, mostly women.
And it became this divergence ofthe business, the market, the
(01:41):
numbers, and the people.
And part of it was I needed togo back to work because my
husband had developeddepression.
And it's been a chronic battlefor him.
And it has affected our entirefamily life.
And throughout the whole processof this, I realized money is
nothing more than a set of toolsin your hands.
What you do with it is areflection of what's going on
(02:02):
inside of you.
So I think I said this to youprivately, but the arc of my
life only makes sense when Ilook back on it.
And money is a way masteringyour money and mastering your
internal emotional needs andworking towards building out
(02:24):
goals and protecting family andprotecting and nurturing what
matters.
When you see it as just a set oftools to get there, it winds up
shifting your entirerelationship with it.
And I've had the privilege ofwatching not just other people
go through this, but as I lookback on my life, everything that
I went through as a mom, as awife, and as a businesswoman
(02:49):
conjugate congealed.
You can't separate and segmentyourself out.
You wind up every area informson the other.
And I mean, I always had my owntraumas with it too.
Um my mother was born in 1938.
Her parents were really hammeredhard by the Great Depression,
and there wasn't enough food inthe house.
(03:10):
So they divided the food up inthe kitchen, and she got less
than her older brother.
And she got her first jobbetween second and third grade.
I don't know how on earth shegot her job, but that was how
she paid for her school clothesand her school shoes.
So it was always important toher to have nice things.
It was always important to herto be dressed well and to be
presentable.
(03:31):
And that is something that Igrew up with.
And she pulled herself out,managed to go to a very good
school, suffered a little bitbecause she came from the wrong
side of the tracks back then.
And all of that, she was in agreat place, she kept building
it out, and then she gotdivorced, and all of her fears
came crashing down on her, andthat affected us.
I was six and a half when thathappened.
(03:52):
So all of that also informed myvision on all of this.
And I watched my motherstruggles.
And I think something else thatI think people don't realize is
that you can be very welleducated, you can be involved in
different things, but thatdoesn't mean you understand the
financial system.
And I watched my mother struggleto learn these things because
(04:13):
she hadn't been taught it.
And my mother's a brilliantwoman.
And it's one of those thingswhere I look at this and I'm
like, okay, it's no one's fault.
Everybody's gone through this.
This has been going on forgenerations.
We need to do better with it.
So all of that came together.
SPEAKER_00 (04:30):
Thank you for sharing that.
I see that it comes from a verydeep and personal lived
experience.
You mentioned money as a set oftools.
So what is on the other side ofthat?
If we can see money as a set oftools as well, what's this
what's the opposite of viewingmoney that way?
SPEAKER_02 (04:51):
I think what people need to understand is that money
has no meaning except for whatyou give it.
And it's not just what you sayabout it, it's what you do with
it.
So if I use my moneyconstructively, then I'm going
to, and if I come at it from apositive place inside, I'm going
to see positive outcomes.
(05:13):
If I'm using it to mask feelingsof inadequacy, fear, anger, it's
going to come out in ugly ways.
And so I I've had clients, I'vehad one in particular that went
through a particularly nastydivorce where he was more than
willing to, you know, there's adesire to hurt people.
(05:38):
There's a desire when they'rehurt to hurt somebody else or to
lash out.
And money is just another toolwith which people can do that.
You don't realize that it it isan extension of you, and what
you do with it reflects what'sgoing on inside of you.
SPEAKER_00 (05:55):
So money is an amplifier, is what you're
saying.
SPEAKER_02 (05:58):
It is, but it's also a means of expressing.
So even if it doesn't amplifyit, it illuminates.
SPEAKER_01 (06:07):
Does that make sense?
It does.
SPEAKER_00 (06:10):
It does.
Because it's then it depends onwhat's inside yourself.
So if what's inside is a tinything, it can be made bigger, it
can be made brighter.
You can shine a light on it.
But if the thing inside is notfundamentally a good thing or a
thing that's worth illuminating,then all it does is uh make it
(06:33):
more obvious.
SPEAKER_02 (06:34):
Yes.
Yes.
There's a joke around here thatpeople engage in retail therapy.
So when they don't feel well orsomething's happened and they're
upset, they go out and shop.
Okay.
Really?
Does that what we're doing tofeel better?
Is that the dopamine hit ofbuying something?
Is that gonna when you thinkabout the biochemistry of that,
(06:57):
you'll get that hit.
And then the next day you'regonna feel worse.
And it's gonna take an evenbigger hit to get you back to
where you were.
Dopamine is one of those thingswhere there's earned dopamine
and then there's bad dopamine.
And earned dopamine is when youaccomplish a goal, when you go
after something, you engage inthe work and you wind up
(07:17):
resetting higher and higher.
When you're engaging indestructive behavior, it's like
an addiction.
It resets lower and it takesmore and more to lift you.
SPEAKER_00 (07:28):
So you're saying that if I were to use my lunch
hour for retail therapy to getaway from the stress of the
office, that would be an exampleof bad dopamine being Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (07:38):
Well, it depends.
Are you buying?
Are you buying?
Or I I'll admit something.
There are times, especiallysince the shutdown, when I would
walk around the mall.
Why?
I didn't shop, but I wanted tosee other people.
My social.
When we were denied the abilityto see other people, I wanted to
see them.
And that was a place to do it.
I actually like going to themall with some of the um elderly
(08:02):
who like to walk around the mallearly in the morning before the
stores are open.
It's bright, it's sunshiny, it'sit's beautiful.
It's there's security cameras,there's security cameras, people
there.
It's great.
Am I is that retail therapy?
Am I engaging in buying?
So again, it's really just aquestion of what you're doing.
Look, if you are at a pointwhere you're financially fit or
(08:26):
you're you're able to go beyondcarrying the load of paying your
goals and and funding the thingsyou need to do, and you want to
do this for a little bit, okay.
But the question is, where areyou and what are you doing it
for?
And if you're doing it to makeyourself feel better, it's an
object.
What are you doing?
SPEAKER_01 (08:47):
I know people who give charity when they feel low,
and I think that's a betterexpression.
It's like I'm helping somebodyelse out.
I'm in a place where I can helpsomebody and makes me feel good
to do it.
I think that's a healthier wayto look at it.
So you're saying that one has tobe financially fit before
(09:13):
indulging in something likeretail therapy.
SPEAKER_02 (09:16):
I would say that yes.
Um, and the way I would lookphrase this for your listeners
is that think about physicalfitness.
You start off with function,everything has to work, and then
you get to health where it workswell together.
Fitness is when you're able tocarry the load, whatever the
load is.
And for financial fitness, whatI would encourage you to say is,
(09:39):
what are my goals and am Ifunding them adequately so that
I'll get to where I want to goand be when I want to be there?
Performance is when you can gowell beyond that.
And you can indulge when you'reat that point.
Okay, or you can save as a goalbecause you want to indulge at
some point.
But the other thing is, are youfunding?
(10:02):
Are you preparing for what yourgoals are?
SPEAKER_01 (10:04):
Are you actually in a place where you're taking care
of your needs and the needs ofyour family?
So that's back to the what wewere taught, I guess, growing
up.
SPEAKER_00 (10:18):
To live within our means, to be responsible, to
save for a rainy day.
So all those maxims are theystill apply, don't they?
They are hallmarks of beingresponsible.
SPEAKER_02 (10:31):
Right.
And what is what is responsible?
If you break it about apart,it's being responsible.
You can choose your response.
And really that's the flip sideof what freedom is.
I'm free to choose how I'm goingto act.
So there's an old joke, youknow, retirement comes.
The question is whether or notyou're prepared for it.
SPEAKER_01 (10:54):
And it'll be here whether you're ready or you're
not.
SPEAKER_02 (10:57):
And that's something that I look at and I say, okay,
are you ready for retirement?
What happens if it comes early?
Is it worth it to you to spendon this now?
Or what are you doing?
What are you funding with this?
What do you want?
I'm just like everybody else.
There are times when I like asplurge, and I'm not saying not
(11:18):
to do that.
What I am saying is think ofyour goals and think of what
you're building and what you'replanting.
What do you want in your life?
One of the things I say topeople is I need them to dream.
And this is usually hard forpeople who've gone through
trauma.
They don't allow themselves todream because, on some levels,
they don't believe it's going tocome true.
(11:39):
They don't believe it's going tohappen for them.
And giving them license to dreamis a little bit of a challenge.
SPEAKER_01 (11:46):
It's believing they're worthy of having their
goals met.
What do you see as theintersection between trauma and
money and people who areintroverted?
It depends on where the traumais coming from.
Um I have a person that I careabout a great deal who admitted
(12:15):
to me um a few weeks ago that itwasn't until April that she
realized that her marriage ofmore than three decades was
dysfunctional and abusive.
SPEAKER_02 (12:26):
And money was a means of exerting control.
That her spouse used money as away to do it.
Money, because it's a tool,becomes a means of control for
quite a few people.
And for people who areintroverted, there's a shame
factor, there's a fear factor.
(12:47):
It becomes a means.
Money is a means of justinterfacing and taking care of
yourself and working with therest of the world and getting
what you need.
And so if somebody controls yourmoney or controls your choices,
whether it's through verbalmeans or whether it's through
more aggressive means orassertive means, they're
(13:09):
controlling you on a very realsense.
And so you have to takeownership of your money, be
present in it, be visible in it,and have control over it and
what you do with it in order totruly be free.
And sometimes when you'redealing with someone who's
overcome a trauma or an abusivesituation, the money was part of
(13:31):
the means of control and part ofthe means of abuse.
So you have to take that back.
SPEAKER_01 (13:35):
And that requires a great degree of confidence.
Sorry.
No, go for it.
SPEAKER_00 (13:47):
How how does one acquire that confidence if they
have been the passive or maybeeven the victim in an abusive
relationship?
So they haven't had maybe theyhaven't had access to the money.
Maybe their economicindependence has been
undermined.
Maybe they were not allowed togo out to work.
(14:07):
So how would they then get backthat confidence?
SPEAKER_02 (14:11):
I knew of a case that was here where there was a
woman, she was a mother, she hadtwo children, and her ex-husband
planned for five or six yearsbefore he filed for divorce.
Actually, I know of a couple ofcases, but this one I know quite
well.
And when she realized that hewas leaving, something inside of
(14:34):
her snapped because he wasn'tshowing any of the money.
And she managed somehow to get ahold of a forensic accountant.
And they were able to do someauditing work and they were able
to dig up where the money was.
And the more she discovered, andthe more the lies became
(14:55):
apparent, the angrier she got.
(15:18):
She's no longer with us.
But you can take back yourpower, but it takes a tremendous
amount of strength to not thenrepeat the example on somebody
else because that's what you'velearned.
And it's a really fundamentallystrong dynamic.
(15:38):
It's something that requiresmore skills in terms of the
emotional healing than I have,but I've watched it in play.
So what happens with mosttherapists, I think, and I think
you can speak to this more thanI can, is that it's it's a
vehicle.
It's another one of those areaswhere the dysfunction and the
anger and the rage and the hurtand the fear all show up.
(16:02):
And it's it's a question ofreally getting the help that
person needs, the emotionalsupport.
Yes.
I was proud of that woman foractually hiring the forensic
accountant.
I was proud of the other womanthat told me this four weeks ago
that she left that she had adysfunctional marriage, that it
was not what it needed to be.
And she then went and managed tohandle and get the divorce, and
(16:27):
they're in the process of theproperty settlement.
It's a really tough struggle,and it takes a tremendous amount
of strength to do it.
I have another person that I'veknown for decades who was in a
very, very abusive relationship,very abusive marriage.
And she hadn't graduated, shegraduated from high school when
(16:51):
they got married, she hadn'tgone to school, didn't have a
career, was in a very religiousenvironment, managed to get back
to school, managed to startplanning on leaving, went to
therapy, went to therapy, keptsaying that she was going to
leave.
And finally, somebody said,Okay, when are you leaving?
And she gave herself a datecertain.
She left with nothing.
(17:12):
She had some money in the bank.
She rented a room from anelderly couple and she cleaned
toilets to make them enoughmoney to finish her schooling
and get a job.
And got her divorce, gotremarried, and is living a
beautiful life.
But it took a tremendous amountof strength.
There was nothing legal that shewas unwilling to do to make sure
(17:34):
she didn't have to go back tothat.
Wow.
And with her, she had quite afew children, one of whom had
some major challenges.
And she really, I don't thinkshe was willing to allow herself
to do that until he was in amore stable, you know, permanent
situation for him as an adult.
(17:55):
But she put up with that forthat long.
And then once she was ready, shejust moved in and did it.
SPEAKER_00 (18:02):
So it sounds to me like what you're saying is that
there is no timeline for thiskind of change, because you it
needs tremendous strength.
You probably need a supportnetwork if you're not going to
go through this yourself,because it would be very, very
hard.
It would take a toll in everyaspect of your life to be
dealing with that kind ofcrisis.
SPEAKER_02 (18:23):
To be willing to step out and take the financial
risk, leave with nothing, notknowing what her settlement was
going to be in a divorce, rent aroom from an elderly family,
okay, and clean toilets andclean houses in order to make
sure that she had the money sheneeded to finish her schooling
and work.
(18:44):
That was what it took.
And if you know, she didn't askher family, her original family
for any help.
She just went and did it.
And it she reached a point whereshe literally could not live
with it any longer.
And it does take a supportnetwork.
I I don't know anybody who canget through any of this stuff
(19:05):
without support.
SPEAKER_01 (19:06):
And finding the right support is really
critical.
SPEAKER_00 (19:13):
In our pre-interview conversation, we talked about
financial imposter syndrome.
What does that mean?
Because we know what impostersyndrome is, but what does the
financial aspect of it mean?
SPEAKER_02 (19:27):
There's a lot of people who, based on messages
they absorbed from childhood andfrom the environment in which
they lived and still live, thatthey may not deserve to have
wealth, that they may notdeserve to have what they want
and what they crave.
And you have to overcome that.
Okay.
There are people that I know ofwho are like, well, you know,
this isn't something my family'sever done.
(19:49):
So what?
Okay, I'm sorry your familydidn't do it up until now.
That doesn't mean you can't.
Okay.
What was the message and wheredid it come from?
And it's very difficult.
Your mind, you cannot go.
And I say this to people all thetime: no one can go where their
mind hasn't gone before them.
If you don't believe that youcan do something, you can't do
(20:12):
it.
So, I mean, I can't tell you howmany times I've heard this said
in the industry.
Whether you think you can or youthink you can't, you're probably
right.
And you really genuinely have toshift the way you think about
yourself and give yourselfpermission to succeed
financially.
SPEAKER_01 (20:31):
And if you don't, you're not going to.
It's interesting.
SPEAKER_02 (20:38):
When you take a look in the US, lottery winners, most
of them wind up broke, um,bankrupt, and some of them wind
up dead within a very shortperiod of time.
SPEAKER_01 (20:50):
It's as if they don't believe they deserved it.
SPEAKER_00 (20:56):
So it's not just about the money, it's about is
it safe for me to have thismoney?
Is it safe for me to manage, uhto grow, to uh be entitled to,
to walk around with, to expressmyself through this amount of
money?
SPEAKER_02 (21:15):
It is.
And and here's the other thingabout this: I've noticed the
people who are truly financiallysuccessful and comfortable in
their own skin, it doesn'tmatter to them.
I know several people who havebeen financially successful for
years.
You would never know it based onwhat they drive and how they
dress.
They're presentable, they'reclean, they're put together, but
(21:35):
they're not wearing labels andthey're not flaunting it.
They don't care.
They're not trying to impressanybody.
And what they really want isgenuine friendship.
The research shows that peoplewho are financially successful
recognize that the best thingsin life are, you know, almost
free.
Spending time with family,spending time with the
community, being outside nature.
(21:56):
Okay, exercise, spending timewith the people you love.
You don't have to pay for that.
You provide, you take care ofyourself, you take care of your
family, you take care of yourcommunity, but it's not the same
thing.
SPEAKER_00 (22:13):
How do you see introverts who tend also to be
overthinkers, you know,perfectionists.
How do you see them in terms ofthe way they manage money?
What are some of the problemsyou've noticed?
SPEAKER_02 (22:29):
I think there's a reluctance to ask for help.
I think there's an expectationof I should have known this.
Well, okay, nobody's bornknowing this.
It doesn't come from osmosis.
There's information that's outthere on the internet, and some
of it's accurate and some of itisn't.
How do you know what's accurateand what isn't?
It's as if they don't givethemselves permission to say,
(22:50):
hey, this is something I'venever learned.
It's a system.
And how do I get the help Ineed?
How do I figure it out?
And it's it's difficult.
There are some programs, like inthe United States, that are very
social.
And if you know an introvertwere to go in there, that'd be a
little intimidating.
Do they want to discuss theproblems out in front of
everybody?
Finding the help you need is notso easy.
(23:12):
In the US, financial advisorsare not really compensated or
trained to talk about some ofthese issues, a lot of these
issues, or to teach the system.
That's part of the reason why Icreated the academy.
But the other piece is, youknow, where do you find what you
need?
How do you find it?
And then there's the secondpiece.
Okay, here's what I need to do.
(23:33):
And it requires a shift in how Ilive my life when it comes to
money.
Here's where I need to go.
Here are the gaps.
You know, here's this gap, thisopportunity.
How do I live the change?
You know, I joke about this allthe time.
We know what we need to do tolose weight.
That doesn't mean we do it.
(23:53):
So we can read the books all thetime, but if we don't have the
support underneath us and aroundus, how do we get it done?
And when is it safe to expressthese things?
Who wants to like put theirdirty laundry out in public?
I mean, who wants to display it?
So, yeah, it's hard.
SPEAKER_00 (24:11):
It's a very hard thing to come out.
Yes, because at the very startof this conversation, you
mentioned a game around money.
And that's a that's anunderpinning element that you
know it's not just introvertsthat experience that.
I think a lot of us have grownup with money stories, money
beliefs inherited fromchildhood, from our upbringing,
from our environment, the thingswe hear our adults say uh around
(24:34):
it.
For instance, um maybe even theway we react to somebody else's
access or aspirations, you know,those people might hear someone
else who is perhaps their ownage saying, someday I'm going to
be a CEO or someday I'm going tobe a millionaire.
And then the response might belaughter that's instead of go
(24:57):
for it, you know, I believe inyou.
So I think these things aredeeply ingrained, and a lot of
times we're not even consciousthat we have absorbed these
sorts of beliefs about what wecan and we can't achieve.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (25:09):
And I think I mentioned to you as a child, my
mother always had this thing,you want a new outfit.
You and when my parents gotdivorced, a lot of that ended.
And I'll tell you, there wastime recently when I was about
to go into something new.
And I was like, oh, I'm goingand I'm not wearing a new
outfit, a new pair of shoes.
Why am I uncomfortable nothaving this?
(25:31):
Do I need this?
Where did this come from?
Just because this is somethingthat my mother experienced does
not mean I have to carry forwardin my own life.
And that's the whole processthat, you know, I'm coming to as
a middle-aged adult, and it'shealing myself.
We do have the ability to bringthese things to the surface,
(25:53):
look at them with a little bitof detachment and say, is this
really mine to carry or not?
Is this something I want tocarry?
You don't have to carry thosestories from the past forward.
You don't.
You can be aware of them, youcan honor them, you can say this
is part of the whole story,reflects some suffering from the
past, but I can let it go.
(26:14):
And that's that's key andimportant.
Dealing with money and dealingwith a lot of these blocks that
get in the way really requires asensitivity to the stories of
the past and what's happened inthe past.
And saying, okay, my future isover here.
This is what I want.
I have the right to go for it.
(26:36):
And that's something that a lotof people have a hard time
saying.
I am worthy of going for it.
And I want to hear people sayit.
I want them to say, hey, this iswhat I want, and this is what
it's gonna take.
Let's get let's get it done.
SPEAKER_01 (26:49):
And based on your experience, how do people let go
of those old stories and thensay, I'm worthy?
SPEAKER_02 (26:59):
Okay, so one of the things that I'll do with people
is I'll walk them throughaffirmations.
And affirmations, as you know,have to be written in a way that
reflects a lack of doubt.
You don't have to leave room fordoubt because if you do that,
your mind is going to go towardsthe lowest common denominator.
But I know this because I haveimposter syndrome.
(27:20):
When I do an affirmation andit's in the first person, it
sounds unbelievably harsh.
And I'll never forget I listenedto something from Andrew
Huberman, and then I listened tomyself give affirmations and I
realized I would never speak tosomeone else the way I speak to
myself.
I would never use thatharshness, that judgment.
And I switched over to thesecond person.
(27:42):
And I basically said, I'm goingto speak to myself the way I
would speak to somebody elsethat I care enormously about and
whom I want to succeed.
And it became much more gentle,much more positive, much more
encouraging.
So that's part of it.
You have to make that switchsometimes and be aware of what
you're doing.
The other thing that I'll dowith people is I'll have them
craft a future self-vision.
(28:03):
What does that look like?
And I'll ask them to do thingslike, what do you see?
Where are you?
Describe the room, the colors,the furniture, what's going on
around you, the smells.
Are there plants in the room?
Are there flowers?
Are there chocolate chipcookies?
Whatever it is.
I want them to put as much asthey can about what they can,
(28:25):
their five senses.
See, hear, smell, touch, andtaste.
And I have them write it out byhand, record it into their
phone.
And every night before they goto sleep, and every morning when
they wake up, I have them playit to themselves.
It's their own voice and they'respeaking to themselves.
And what I'm looking to do isthe same thing that people do
(28:47):
with vision boards, is I'mlooking to get their mind, their
subconscious, to align with whatthe goal is.
SPEAKER_01 (28:58):
So there are other techniques that we use, but
those are two of the big ones.
SPEAKER_00 (29:01):
Yeah.
I love that you use the fivesenses because some people would
be more hands-on, some peoplewould respond by listening, and
some people have to visualizethings.
So that covers all the aspects.
SPEAKER_01 (29:15):
So uh tell us more about the academy.
Who is it for and who do youhelp?
SPEAKER_02 (29:22):
It is for people who genuinely want to build out a
secure future, who are lookingand saying, I'm making money.
Why am I not building wealth?
Am I actually going to get towhere I want?
And it requires a total shift inframework.
So, for example, I think I'vementioned, oh, I didn't mention
this to you.
70% of the designer items, theluxury items, are bought by
(29:46):
people who are middle class andlower.
The people who are building outwealth are not spending their
money on that.
They're spending the money oninvestments.
It's a functional purse, it'sbeautiful, it works.
It doesn't have to have thatdesigner label on it.
And the reason for that is verysimple.
They have a goal that theyconsider to be more worthy of
(30:08):
the money.
They're being intentional andvery strategic with their money.
They're giving themselvespermission to do that.
So I'm looking for people whoare willing to make that change,
who want to make that change.
I'm looking for people who havebuilt success in other areas of
their life, it doesn't matterwhich, and who say, hey, I'm
willing to do this.
You can't work and give yourselfpermission to succeed in one
(30:32):
area of your life and not giveyourself permission to succeed
in the other area.
It will bleed down.
You have to give yourselfpermission to succeed all the
way around.
So I'm looking for people whoare intentional.
I'm looking for people who areready for change.
And if there's a problem and abump along the road, we'll deal
with it because I expect thosebumps to come out, if that makes
(30:55):
sense.
Most of the time, there's anemotional block that stands in
the way or that prompts peopleto come in and see me, anyways.
If that makes sense.
There's usually an incentivebeyond the money that is the
motivator.
SPEAKER_01 (31:12):
Yes.
The cosmic wake-up call.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (31:16):
And the question is, what is it?
And what do we need to do to getthem past it?
And once they start to seesuccess, and once they start to
see trust in me that I've earnedit, they can then open up to me
and explain what the issue is,and then we start problem
solving.
SPEAKER_00 (31:35):
So what you do is you offer a sensitive guided
experience through somethingthat is very challenging for all
of us at deep levels because itrequires us to actually go
within and ask some bigquestions about ourselves, about
(31:55):
where we've come from, aboutwhere we are going and what we
want.
And am I worthy of it?
And yes, I'm worthy of it.
So how do I go and do thisthing?
And so that is a very involvedprocess and it requires a lot of
empathy, a lot of support, a lotof non-judgment.
And I think that is what youprovide inside your academy.
SPEAKER_02 (32:16):
That's the goal, because that's the way lasting
change happens.
And the other goal is to providecommunity where they can speak
and be around people who aregoing through the same things.
The challenge with that is thatcommunity is a little bit harder
to build trust.
And so I don't want, like one ofthe things I'll say to people is
your identity is yours.
You fought long and hard for it.
(32:36):
I need you to protect it.
So if you wish to share thingswithin a community, make people
earn the trust.
Don't share too soon.
Okay.
If you're facing challenges,build it slowly.
Like everything is a question ofbaby steps.
And so if the big steps are, ifwhat you're looking at is
challenging you and making youmore anxious, let's break it
(32:57):
down into smaller and smallersteps so that we can actually
create forward momentum.
Anxiety and fear really trulyhas to be overcome through
motion.
And one of the things that we dowork on is building up that
adversity quotient, thatknowledge that you can take on
(33:17):
harder and harder challenges.
But we start as small as we needto start.
SPEAKER_00 (33:24):
I love that.
The idea of micro steps insteadof massive transformation all at
once.
SPEAKER_01 (33:30):
Massive transformation all at once
doesn't work.
If you're the therapist, tell mewhen that works.
SPEAKER_00 (33:37):
Tell me when that's sustainable.
It's never worked for me and forthe people that I know.
And I think sometimes it is thethose seminars, certain seminars
we go to that encourage thatkind of transformation and I
think set a very unhealthy baror expectation of what
(33:58):
transformation actually is.
Because what we want istransformation that sticks after
that weekend.
When I go back on Monday to mynormal routine, will I still be
able to think that way with thatnew mindset?
Or have I gone back to mydefault self and then have to
start again?
SPEAKER_02 (34:15):
Right.
And that's the problem.
It's building out systems takestime and people need to give
themselves that time.
So one of the things that Ithink is important is that there
has to be complete honesty.
I have to earn your respect andtrust through honesty.
I don't want you to give it tome immediately.
Okay, that's unreasonable.
Okay.
Make me earn it.
(34:36):
And make me keep it bymaintaining and showing up and
doing what I say I'm going todo.
And I think that's reallyimportant.
One of the problems with myindustry is that a lot of people
who are in it are veryaccomplished at having that
emotional bond with people, butaren't necessarily as
(34:56):
accomplished with what they'redoing.
And in my opinion, especiallywithin my industry, the only way
my industry is going to getbetter and people are going to
get better results and feel morecomfortable with their advisors
is when their advisors areforced to perform better.
The stronger the clients are,the more they can demand.
SPEAKER_01 (35:20):
And the more they'll understand where it's reasonable
to demand.
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (35:24):
It's it's it's the only way to make things better
is for people to take to havemore ability to set their
expectations and enforce them.
SPEAKER_00 (35:36):
So you're speaking about competence for both
parties, both the advisors aswell as the clients.
SPEAKER_02 (35:43):
Right.
The advisors want to be inbusiness and want to make money.
So if the market demands thatthey do better, they'll do
better.
SPEAKER_01 (35:53):
It's really simple.
SPEAKER_00 (35:56):
And for the client to demand that, they have to be,
they have to have enoughknowledge.
They have to be able to feelconfident that they know what
they're talking about, they knowthe questions to ask, they know
what to demand.
SPEAKER_02 (36:08):
Correct.
And more than that, okay, theyalso need to understand
something.
It is a privilege for me to siton the same side of the table
and work with a client.
It is a privilege for me to beon a Zoom call with a client
working through a problem.
I don't forget for one minutethat it is a privilege for me to
(36:28):
work with people because theirmoney is the way they care for
themselves and the people theylove now and in the future.
And that is a heavyresponsibility.
So it is a privilege, and itmeans I have to bring my best to
it every day.
Clients need to expect thatadvisors are going to understand
(36:50):
that it is a privilege to workwith them.
It drives me crazy when I hear aclient say, Well, you know,
maybe my account is too small.
Really?
No.
Okay, maybe, maybe it's smalland it's harder to manage, but
that doesn't mean you don'tdeserve respect.
And that doesn't mean you don'tdeserve somebody's best efforts
at that time.
SPEAKER_01 (37:14):
Thank you for that reminder.
SPEAKER_00 (37:15):
So there is responsibility to on both parts
on on every person that managesmoney, has access to that money,
has um in a position to makedecisions about the money.
So this is all back toself-awareness again, about
doing that inner work to healour money wounds, money stories,
(37:36):
money beliefs, at the same timeacquiring that knowledge so that
we become competent enough toadvocate for ourselves and look
after others as well.
unknown (37:46):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (37:46):
So what is the one?
I'll go with one other thing.
I find that when you realizethat you've been abused or
maltreated, you start seeing thesame patterns in a lot of the
people around you.
And I've seen people, a lot ofpeople come in to see me because
something has gone wrong.
Okay, something has gone wrongalong the way.
(38:07):
And when it's been an issue withan advisor or two, the question
is once they start to see thepattern, they can't unsee it.
And so you have to set the barhigher and enforce those
boundaries and say, these are myexpectations.
If you're not going to meetthem, you can't meet them.
That's fine, but I will goelsewhere.
SPEAKER_01 (38:28):
We're not going to pretend otherwise.
And sometimes that's a littlescary because you realize what
you've been putting up with andtolerating.
SPEAKER_02 (38:38):
And when you have to retrain people and how they're
to treat you, there's alwaysthat pushback of saying, no,
change, change back, changeback.
SPEAKER_01 (38:46):
Okay, I'm walking.
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (38:52):
That is a huge conversation around boundaries,
around self-respect, around whatam I, and it's back to that
worthiness, isn't it?
I'm worthy of respect.
I'm worthy of being treatedbetter than this.
SPEAKER_01 (39:06):
I'm worthy of articulating what I need and
having that listened to.
Yes.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
What is the best way for peopleto get in touch with you?
SPEAKER_02 (39:26):
I'm always happy to respond.
If somebody wants to send me anemail, they can.
I will give you a link that theycan sign up for a free
consultation where if they arehaving a block or there's
something that's on their mind,I'm happy to give them some
time.
We can work through it a littlebit.
I have different programs.
Um, it's theharmonywealthacademy.com, but
(39:48):
they can also just, you know,I'll give you the link for that
and people can reach out.
So I'm happy to help.
SPEAKER_00 (39:55):
Thank you.
And just for clarity for ourlisteners, this is pertaining
more to the American financesituation.
SPEAKER_02 (40:04):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (40:04):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (40:05):
But if somebody has a question and they're talking
about an emotional block onmoney and they want to just have
a brief conversation about that,I'm not going to give them
advice.
The purpose of the academy is toteach the system.
So I'm not coming in and tellingyou what to do.
I want you to walk throughwhat's going on.
(40:25):
So there's a mentality piece,and then there's the American
system.
So even with American clientswho are inside the academy, I
want them to stand back andunderstand there's no pitching,
I'm not making recommendations.
What I'm saying is here's thesystem and let's walk through
it.
This is what the shifts are.
This is what this is, what'sgoing on with your money story?
(40:47):
What do where do we need towork?
That's a different approach.
If there's something thatcatches fire, there's something
that's urgent, that's adifferent contract.
Okay.
So if somebody has a questionabout mindset or there's a block
and they want to reach out to meon that, I'm happy to talk to
you.
SPEAKER_00 (41:03):
Beautiful.
Thank you so much for clarifyingthat.
Thank you, Monica, for sharingyour time and your energy with
us today.
SPEAKER_02 (41:10):
Thank you for the opportunity.
And I very much appreciate whatyou're doing.
And I just want to encouragepeople to really believe that
they can have what they reallytruly want, that it's okay to
dream and that it's okay tobuild a positive future.
They don't, wherever they are,they're not a plant, they're not
a tree, they're not plant,they're not stuck.
They can move.
(41:32):
Beautiful.
SPEAKER_00 (41:34):
If you enjoyed today's episode, be sure to
leave a five-star rating andreview to help the Quiet Warrior
podcast reach more introvertsand quiet achievers around the
world.
I've also put together a freeresource for you called the
Introvert Toolkit, which is fullof valuable tips for introverts
leaders working with introvertsand parents of introverted
children.
The link to download it is inthe show notes, so make sure you
(41:56):
look out for it.
See you on the next episode.
I'm so grateful that you're heretoday.
If you found this contentvaluable, please share it on
your social media channels andsubscribe to the show on your
favorite listening platform.
Together we can help moreintroverts thrive.
To receive more upliftingcontent like this, connect with
(42:18):
me on Instagram at SerenaLoQuiet Warrior Coach.
Thank you for sharing your timeand your energy with me.
See you on the next episode.
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CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist
It’s 1996 in rural North Carolina, and an oddball crew makes history when they pull off America’s third largest cash heist. But it’s all downhill from there. Join host Johnny Knoxville as he unspools a wild and woolly tale about a group of regular ‘ol folks who risked it all for a chance at a better life. CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist answers the question: what would you do with 17.3 million dollars? The answer includes diamond rings, mansions, velvet Elvis paintings, plus a run for the border, murder-for-hire-plots, and FBI busts.