October 12, 2025 • 39 mins
How do introverts and quiet achievers move past shyness, own their accomplishments, and confidently present themselves in their careers?
In this episode of The Quiet Warrior Podcast, I sit down with Amy Adler, President of Five Strengths Career Transition Experts, Certified Master Resume Writer, and author of Courageous Career Change: Fearlessly Earn the Executive Role You Deserve.
Amy shares her personal journey of overcoming stage fright, the surprising truth about why speaking to a roomful of people sometimes feels easier than one-on-one conversations, and how introverts can prepare for career success by documenting and owning their achievements. With compassion and clarity, she explains how she helps clients—often quiet achievers—see their brilliance reflected back to them through resumes and career stories that feel both authentic and empowering.
Whether you’re preparing for a job search, an annual performance review, or simply learning to speak about your value with confidence, Amy’s insights will inspire you to step forward with courage and clarity
What You’ll Learn in This Episode
- The difference between introversion and shyness—and how practice and exposure can shift your confidence.
- Why many introverts find public speaking easier than small talk or one-on-one conversations.
- The challenges quiet achievers face in “boasting” about themselves, and how to reframe this as sharing the truth.
- Amy’s process for creating psychological safety so clients can tell their authentic career stories.
- The C-A-R (Challenge, Action, Results) framework and how introverts can use it to capture their accomplishments in real time.
- Why documenting your career wins regularly is essential—and how it can prevent panic when opportunities arise.
- The pitfalls of AI-generated resumes and why your authentic voice matters most.
- A powerful reminder: people aren’t scrutinizing you as much as you think—so share your achievements, because no one else will.
About Amy Adler
Amy Adler is the President of Five Strengths Career Transition Experts, a Certified Master Resume Writer, Certified Executive Resume Master, and Nationally Certified Online Profile Expert. She has won awards at the annual Toast of the Resume Writing Industry competition and is the author of Courageous Career Change: Fearlessly Earn the Executive Role You Deserve. Amy is passionate about helping executives and professionals craft authentic, compelling resumes and career portfolios that reflect their true value.
Connect with Amy:
- Website:fivestrengths.com
- LinkedIn:Amy L. Adler
Introvert Resource:
Subscribe to The Visible Introvert Newsletter at SerenaLow.com.au for the latest resources on how to be seen and heard without having to act extroverted.
This episode was edited by Aura House Productions
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Serena Lowe.
If you're used to hearing thatintroverts are shy, anxious,
antisocial, and lack goodcommunication and leadership
skills, then this podcast is foryou.
You're about to fall in lovewith a calm, introspective, and
profound person that you are.
Discover what's fun, unique, andpowerful about being an
(00:21):
introvert and how to make theelegant transition from quiet
achiever to quiet warrior inyour life and work, anytime you
want, in more ways than youimagined possible.
Welcome.
Our guest today is Amy Adler,president of Five Strengths
Career Transition Experts,specializing in resumes and
(00:44):
career portfolio development.
She is a certified master resumewriter, certified executive
resume master, and nationallycertified online profile expert.
She judges in the annual Toastof the Resume Writing Industry
Awards, having won first andthird places for Best Executive
(01:04):
Resume.
She presents to industry and topeers and is the author of
Courageous Career ChangeFearlessly Earn the Executive
Role You Deserve.
Welcome, Amy, to the QuietWarrior Podcast.
Hello, and thank you so much forinviting me.
Amy, I want to go back to thebeginning where we talked about
(01:25):
conflating introversion withshyness.
What are your thoughts andwhat's your experience been with
this?
SPEAKER_01 (01:32):
Thank you for raising that.
We did talk about that because Ithink it's um a worthwhile
distinction, at least formyself.
I have always thought that I wasan introvert, that uh I clearly
uh needed to recharge afterspending time with people as
(01:53):
much as I enjoyed their company.
I really value my time alone.
Um, and I and I always felt likethat was a good identifier for
myself.
Um but I never felt super quiet.
I always felt um like I wasmaybe the not the most
(02:14):
boisterous in the room by far,but very vocal.
Um, as much as I was observing,I like to talk.
I like to talk about things thatare interesting and talk to
interesting people and to hearwhat people have to say.
Um so many for many years, mywhole childhood, adolescence,
(02:35):
maybe even up until my twenties,I was terrified though, and all
in spite of all of this,terrified to get up in front of
people.
Um genuinely, genuinely hadshaking knees and quivering and
didn't know what to do with myhands and um felt more than
awkward um in front of a groupof people.
(02:57):
So every year in, you know, inschool when we had to do
presentations, it was my leastfavorite thing to do.
And then I attended graduateschool business school, in which
we had to present all the time.
I mean, weekly, it felt like wewere in teams getting up and
talking in front of the class ofyou know 50 students all the
(03:21):
time.
And I think the repetition ofthe process and the exposure to
it over and over again got meout of um what might have been
termed shyness at the time, atleast in that context.
And I discovered that I lovedit.
(03:44):
I discovered that I lovedpresenting.
And I think now, this is ofcourse many, many years later,
what I love about it now when Iget to do it is I get to share
the things that I love aboutwhat I do and to teach people
and help them where or meet themwhere they are and help them
become more effective in theircareers and their job search and
(04:06):
that kind of a thing.
So I won't say that that doesn'tjust absolutely destroy me in
terms of my energy because itdoes, but it it's so much fun to
get up in front of people and tolet go of the fears I think that
plagued me as a young person.
(04:27):
Um and to be in my element.
Um, I really like that.
And I'm I'm actually quiteenvious of people now who
remember to measure their speechcadence and um understand that
um people are not listening atthe rate maybe that I'm
(04:48):
speaking.
I think I joked with you lasttime that I felt like a bull in
a China shop sometimes.
And you asked me, Did I didanybody ever say that to me?
And I said, no, no one ever saidthat, but I always feel like I
just have everything to say.
And I think that's that umagain, still that introversion
at my core self and that needfor quiet and that need for um
(05:10):
introspection, but not that kindof shyness that used to um just
just dog me everywhere.
SPEAKER_02 (05:19):
So it sounds to me like what you're saying is that
with practice, with exposure,with repetition, one can move
away from that sense of I'm shyor I can't speak to actually
being becoming in your element.
And I think what's importantalso is that you notice that
it's when you speak aboutinteresting things and you meet
(05:42):
interesting people, and whenyou're curious about what they
have to say, that's what helpsyou get into your element.
That's where you getenthusiastic.
SPEAKER_00 (05:52):
That's so true, and thank you for framing it that
way.
SPEAKER_01 (05:56):
Um, I think, as most I think young people are, um, I
was thinking all about what arepeople going to say about my
presentation, about my way ofshowing up in the world.
And and once I kind of got awayfrom that and started having
fun, um it became so mucheasier.
(06:19):
So I think I get more worriedthese days when I'm speaking
one-on-one that I might say thewrong thing, because inevitably
I'll say the wrong thing.
Um, whereas I don't feel quitethat way in a room full of
people when I know I have apurpose in being there and
teaching them something thathopefully they find interesting
(06:40):
and important as I um share whatI know.
I I hope that's the case.
SPEAKER_02 (06:45):
I find that very interesting that you put it that
way too, because a lot ofintroverts tell me that they
prefer speaking one-on-one orone-to-a small group.
But I remember in ourconversation, you spoke about
how much easier it is to speakto a room full of people than to
just a few.
SPEAKER_00 (07:03):
Why do you think that is?
SPEAKER_01 (07:06):
I think on some level, fundamentally, there's I
practice when I'm going topresent, right?
I know what I'm going to say,and I can um I can manage many
parameters that um I can'tmanage in a one-to-one
conversation.
And please don't misunderstandme.
I love intimate conversationsthat have real depth and
(07:28):
meaning.
I don't love small talk thatmuch.
Um but I am I still wonder, youknow, that time once in high
school I said this thing andwhat did they think about me?
And this is we're talkingdecades ago.
So these kinds of things stickwith me.
Um but the opportunity to umshare uh an emotional space with
(07:54):
one person um is is sorewarding, but scary too, um,
because I feel like I'm notgiven that opportunity to
practice.
I don't know what's coming.
Um, I'm really um peeling backon my layers, aren't I?
SPEAKER_02 (08:11):
Yes, I think that is the gift and the mystery of that
one-on-one connection.
And maybe that's also areflection on the introvert, the
introvert's relationship withuncertainty.
Maybe we like to be prepared.
We like to be to walk into asituation knowing what we're
going to say and doing our bestwith that time that we're given.
(08:36):
Whereas in a one-on-oneinteraction with a new person,
sometimes we we don't know thatperson well enough.
So we're not very sure where theboundaries are, where the
parameters are, what we can andcan't say.
We're sort of feeling our wayalong.
So there is a lot of you know,mystery, a lot of uncertainty,
and maybe that makes us a littlebit hesitant.
SPEAKER_00 (08:56):
And I think that comes from having been in that
kind of experience before.
SPEAKER_01 (09:01):
Am I replaying an experience that I've had in the
past in a totally different umconversation with a different
person in a different time in mylife?
Am I going to have that same umsort of deer in the headlights
uh feeling for having said thewrong thing or come across the
wrong way?
Um so maybe getting out of oldpatterns too is a good thing.
(09:24):
And um as they say, preparingfor all unforeseen events um
just not possible.
Um, I think I don't know if it'strue for introverts.
I I feel like a lot of people Iknow who are um kind of have the
same, I don't know, perspectiveis um we just want everything to
be perfect.
SPEAKER_00 (09:44):
We just want it to be perfect the way it should be.
SPEAKER_01 (09:49):
And and because there are no do-overs.
But I think people are alsoreally kind and probably more
focused on themselves than theyare on us.
Um especially another introvertum would not be so judgmental
because maybe they've been inthe same in the same boat.
SPEAKER_02 (10:07):
You're right.
You're right.
It takes one to recognize one.
And I think we are in generalkind people.
We are also very reflective andself-aware.
And so we understand when we seea kindred spirit, you know,
going through those mentalloops.
We know what it's like to replayand to be haunted by things that
happened a long time ago, and towonder what if, and and maybe
(10:32):
almost wish we could go back intime and fix that thing, that
conversation.
But um I think that's just thehuman experience.
And introverts and quietachievers being more likely to
be perfectionist about thesethings, wanting things to go
well, wanting things to go wellfor the other person as well, to
(10:54):
for them to have a goodexperience.
I think that comes also from aplace of caring, isn't it?
And being conscientious, payingattention to detail.
SPEAKER_00 (11:02):
And all of those are strengths.
SPEAKER_01 (11:07):
You know, I have heard that introverts are in
particular um very good atmirroring the other, their
conversational, the energy oftheir conversational partner.
And um I think because peopleare self-reflective and caring
(11:27):
and um paying attention, as yousay, conscientious about their
environment and the thetemperature of the room, if you
will.
Um, that whether if if somebodyis very energetic, they can they
can stand up to that, they canthey can match that energy, even
if it's kind of unusual andpainful.
Um and but but toning it downand being like I said, having
(11:52):
that sort of intimate discussionis a place of real comfort and
being able to to match thatlevel of um well, energy, um, I
think is is a is a commonality,I think.
SPEAKER_02 (12:07):
Yes, I I think the the introvert is uh gifted in
that sense, being sensitive anduh noticing what's making
someone comfortable,uncomfortable, and holding the
space for for that person tofeel safe.
Because that's important tothem.
And so they assume it'simportant to the other person
they are conversing with aswell.
(12:29):
So I'm curious to know in yourwork as a resume writer, I guess
you would be working with, youknow, some introverts and some
quiet achievers as well.
So what is your experience likewith, you know, when someone
comes to you with a resume thatneeds a making over?
They come with a set ofexpectations, you know, some
(12:50):
career goals that they want toachieve, you know, something
they want to land a betterposition.
What is how do you see thatintersection between them being
introverted, being very quiet,and what they say about
themselves in a resume?
SPEAKER_00 (13:06):
I think I do uh attract the quiet achiever type.
SPEAKER_01 (13:13):
Which doesn't, it's not to say that these are people
who don't speak or don't speakabout themselves.
So they don't speak as highly ofthemselves as the rest of the
world would expect them to do,because they are just
exceptional people and it'suncomfortable for them to offer
(13:36):
themselves up this way.
They're happy to talk about workand making somebody else's um
professional experience betterand helping a uh a client of
theirs or a customer of theirsready and willing to um hold
space for any of those things,but hard for them to do it for
themselves.
(13:57):
So I think they come with a realknowledge of who they are, but
an unwillingness to discuss it,which is an interesting
intersection.
Um so helping them uh with aframework that is something they
(14:18):
can follow so they can indulge,if you will, in this um
experience of talking aboutthemselves.
And I and I think a lot of themdo think it's indulgent or
boastful um on the on the farend um because it's not
something they're accustomed todoing.
(14:38):
So foundationally, I havelearned that giving well,
anybody, but particularly peoplewho are not accustomed to
speaking about themselves,giving them the opportunity to
say whatever they want.
Let's start from the beginningand whatever floodgates you want
(14:59):
to open, I am here to receivethat.
And I want to because I want toknow what the real story is,
what the raw emotion around yourhistory is, what are the great
successes and you know, maybesome of the things that aren't
so savory because everybody hasexperiences like that.
And I don't think these peopleare accustomed, or nobody's ever
(15:22):
given them the opportunity tosay whatever was on their mind
about themselves.
Um, and I think mostly becauseit's not considered polite
conversation to just hold courtabout who you are.
But in this resume writing jobsearch experience, this is the
exact time that somebody shoulddevelop a feel for these kinds
(15:42):
of conversations and feelcomfortable talking about these
things.
So once they have um sort oflaid out whatever they want to
say or whatever they want towrite, and there's lots of ways
we can get this information,then I ask them very structured
questions in a very structuredprocess.
So I can have all the detailsthat I need, but not at the
(16:05):
expense of um, I don't know,stepping all over them before
they have a chance to lookcomfortable in that very unusual
space.
SPEAKER_02 (16:18):
So what I heard you say is you create that
psychological safety for them tofeel I can talk about my
successes, my failures, myexperiences.
Someone is actually listening tome, someone cares about what
I've been through.
And that is not an experiencemost people would have had the
opportunity to to go through inthat positive sense.
(16:42):
Because the the next time wetalk about ourselves is probably
at the annual performancereview.
And that again is another thingfor the introvert and the quiet
achiever who's almost trying todim their light, you know, and
sometimes self-sabotageunconsciously.
So do you find that afterworking with them in sessions
(17:04):
like that, that they becomeolder and and better able to
express themselves when it comesto, let's say, the the
performance review?
SPEAKER_01 (17:15):
Well, I hope they become bolder.
Um, but I hope that in theirhearts, in their guts, wherever
they feel that sensation, theyfeel more confident.
How they express it may be adifferent, different process.
But for them to see theirexperiences and their successes
um through someone else's eyes,um, reflected back to them.
(17:39):
I don't, I don't know if that'sthe right term.
Maybe I'm a mirror, maybe I'm aum a catalyst for um this
transformation that they'reexperiencing.
Um, but they can they can ownthat um and understand that
their self-perception, it's it'sI'm not going to say it's not
real, but there's somethingbigger that they can latch on to
(18:01):
and show off, if you will, totheir current leadership in an
annual review, as you say, or ina future uh job search uh in an
interview, um, and certainly ontheir resume.
And I think the key is in inthat context of of talking about
themselves, is to speak thetruth, um, to get the well, to
(18:27):
get the truth from them in theseconversations, but then allow
them to say what is fact andtake some of the emotion out of
the declaration that these aregood things that happened on my
watch.
So it it feels less likeboasting.
Oh, it shouldn't feel like thatat all.
(18:47):
Um, but that kind of a levelingwith one's audience means that
the facts are incontrovertible.
This is what took place, this ishow I intervened, or how I made
a change, or how I led.
And this was the outcome ofthese uh series of
circumstances, and that's it.
So there's not this look howamazing I am.
(19:11):
It's I did these things, and byall accounts, these things are
good because they had thefollowing effect on my group, my
team, my business, my executiveleadership, my company, whatever
it might be, my customers.
And there's not a lot of arguingthat can happen after that.
Um, I like to tell my clientsthat they, when they share these
(19:33):
things, they their audiencecannot argue with whether it's
true or false because it's true.
They can only say whether theyneed somebody who knows how to
do the things that the candidateis putting out there.
And that makes it, I think, amuch easier conversation because
it gets people out of their ownway and gives and gives them the
comfort of, I think, standingwhere they are most comfortable
(19:58):
in speaking about um declarativefacts, um, which then maybe
leads into something hopefullydeeper, more um emotionally,
well, hopefully emotionallyintelligently based, but
emotionally based.
SPEAKER_02 (20:15):
I think what you said there, there is a lot more
layers and nuance than what itsounds like.
You've made it sound like it'ssomething very simple for the
person who has their resumetransformed in that way to a
like a before and an after, andit's all data driven.
But I think for the the personwho has a tendency to overthink
(20:38):
it, they add their own layers ofskepticism about themselves,
which then becomes a kind ofself-sabotage and diminishing
their own light.
So when you say, you know,because I did that, you know,
that led to this other outcome,to them it's not quite so
(20:58):
simple.
They don't see it as that linearkind of a transformation.
It's they they questionthemselves at many points along
the way, like, oh, well, youknow, it was a team effort.
It wasn't all just me.
Um, I had the help of this andthis person, and you know,
actually I didn't do all thatmuch.
And how do I know that myleadership was really
(21:20):
transformational and really madea difference?
So they would be askingthemselves all these things.
So, how do you help them, youknow, to navigate over those
mental humps?
SPEAKER_01 (21:30):
It it's more common than you would think that
somebody in a C-suite positionwould say, Well, wouldn't
anybody else who had my job doit this way?
And my response is always, howcould that be true?
You're the only one there.
And if it happened on yourwatch, especially when people
(21:52):
are at more elevated levels, theexpectation is that somebody
would understand an audience,their audience would understand
that they didn't do every lastthing, but that they led the
charge, that they um developedthe esprit de corps, that they
uh set the direction and madesure things happened the way
(22:15):
they were supposed to happen.
So, not so much that they wouldtake credit for everything, but
that they would take um, well,all of the responsibility and
none of the credit in somesense, but that the outcome was
this very positive thing.
And I think a lot of peoplesecretly want to be recognized
(22:38):
for the good that they do, butfeel very uncomfortable shouting
that from the rooftops.
I can only imagine how that mustfeel to somebody who is
extremely quiet.
That must feel extremelystrange.
And I delight in telling myclients that your resume is the
place to do that.
(22:59):
And this is I am the safestaudience you will ever have
because I am on your side.
There is nothing you could tellme to hurt me, there's nothing
you could say that would make methink you're a blowhard.
There's there are no wronganswers here.
And I am I'm I'm super curiousall the time.
(23:19):
I want to know what makes peopletick and how they do what they
do.
And if anybody is going tosupport them all the way through
the process, it's going to be mebecause their current high uh
manager, their hiring manager,whatever it might be, or the
recruiter, they all havedifferent obligations, but my
obligation is to them.
So I just open up the virtualroom, so to speak, and say, tell
(23:41):
me, tell me how you feel, tellme what you think, and I will
use every skill I have to makethis represent you well on the
page so that everyone else cansee it too.
SPEAKER_02 (23:56):
So you are that safe space for your clients to feel
that they can tell you anything,they can be themselves, they can
talk about theiraccomplishments, and you will
help them frame it in such a waythat they themselves feel
internally congruent.
Because I think that's the thething that's missing, isn't it?
(24:19):
Externally, something may lookreally good, but that person
needs to take ownership of it inan emotional sense too.
If they look at it and they saythat's not me, then there isn't
that internal congruence.
So there must be somethingmagical in the framework you use
and the way you work with yourclients so that helps them
realize, oh my goodness, Iactually did all this.
(24:40):
I'm much more accomplished, moreamazing than I gave myself
credit for.
SPEAKER_00 (24:47):
I I don't think it's magical, um, but I like
terminology.
SPEAKER_01 (24:51):
I think it's surprising to to them that they
they don't start with thelanguage to describe their
experiences in the way that theyneed to, so that somebody else
can understand this, digest itquite easily.
Um so I I hope that over manyyears of doing this, I have
(25:15):
developed a skill set thatenables me to be that um that
translator for them.
SPEAKER_00 (25:20):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (25:21):
And whenever somebody does, and this has
happened lots of times, somebodysays, wow, is this too much?
Is this just this feels like umall I ever did in my life was
something good and in all thesedifferent ways.
When in fact that I mean theytold me the story, so I
certainly didn't craft them fromfrom from nothing.
(25:42):
So I ask them, is everything onthis document true?
And the presupposition is thatthey would never tell me a
falsehood, they wouldn't lie,they wouldn't make things up.
I've never had anybody do that.
Um and when they agree thatthese things happened, and I so
(26:03):
do you see yourself reflected inevery statement?
If they are true, do you seeyourself in every one?
And I've never gotten a no.
Um, I did have one person saythis is many years ago, stuck in
my head all these years.
Um, it was an HR um manager, Ibelieve she was.
And she saw her resume.
(26:24):
And so you would think maybesomebody in HR would have um
sort of more knowledge aboutwhat a resume should look like,
but it's always hard to talkabout ourselves anyway.
So she called me up after shesaw the resume and said, I don't
know who this girl is, but Ithink I need to hire her.
And we just broke out into, youknow, tons of laughter and and
had a good chat.
Um, I love that kind of asentiment that somebody feels
(26:48):
like they see themselves sodifferently.
And maybe they just neededpermission.
Not that I get to give thempermission, they they should
have it without me.
I don't have any, I don't holdany keys to this.
SPEAKER_00 (26:58):
Um, but it's so nice when people um reflect back to
me that they took their blindersoff, I guess.
SPEAKER_01 (27:10):
Um it's lovely and it happens all the time, and
there's nothing that makes mehappier.
SPEAKER_00 (27:16):
I mean, nothing.
SPEAKER_02 (27:18):
You mentioned being a mirror and a catalyst, and
perhaps what you do is that youhelp people recognize
themselves.
SPEAKER_00 (27:28):
It's a really good way of putting it.
SPEAKER_01 (27:31):
So I foundationally, I am not going to make anything
up.
I am, I'm not going to, youknow, Chat GPT hallucinate some
sort of new persona or new setof experiences for somebody.
There's nothing going on likethat.
Um, the investigative process issuch that I want to learn
everything there is to knowabout somebody's career.
(27:52):
But I also want to be, when thisis all said and done, I want to
be invisible.
And maybe that's myintroversion.
Um, it's funny, um, in college Iwas a stage manager, which meant
I was dressed in black andwalked behind the um the stage
and the sets and the didn't, youknow, I wasn't ever present to
the audience.
But what I did made, you know,had an impact.
(28:14):
I feel like I'm just aperpetually dressed in black and
and hiding from the the overallintended audience because I want
the person who is doing theactivity of job search or
talking to people.
I want them to shine.
And if I can make them shinejust a little brighter, that
makes me happy.
And I'm really okay being in thebackground.
SPEAKER_02 (28:34):
I think that's a beautiful description of the
power of the quiet achiever andthe person who is in the
background supporting otherpeople to shine.
And we all need that stagemanager.
We all need someone behind uswho, you know, nudges us, tells
us it's okay, tells us what weshould do next, cues us in,
reassures us, and all, you know,just keeps everything flowing
(28:55):
smoothly.
We all need someone like you inour lives.
So, since you mentioned ChatGPT, what are your thoughts on
AI-generated resumes?
Oh my goodness.
Um, okay.
SPEAKER_01 (29:06):
If I haven't already been fully transparent in this
discussion, um now I get to beeven more transparent.
SPEAKER_00 (29:13):
Um the LLMs, large language models, there's all
sorts of them out there, areamazing at doing things quickly,
but not necessarily doing thingswell.
SPEAKER_01 (29:27):
And they're never going to know more about an
individual than that personknows inside themselves.
They're just not at they likehow could they know?
Unless the data is out there andwe tell it in some way, there's
no way that it's going to inventplausible information about an
(29:50):
individual, which means that aresume that is wholly driven by,
or even in part maybe driven byChat TPT or whatever the other
ones are.
SPEAKER_00 (30:00):
Is going to be less detailed, more bland, and maybe
just a notch too clever.
SPEAKER_01 (30:09):
Um so that it's it's inauthentic.
Um and I don't think that's meas a resume writer, uh speaking
as a resume writer per se.
I think that could be true forany kind of prose or any kind of
text that might come out ofthis.
It can only um digest and spitout what it's been told.
So I hope that people will givethemselves credit for being way,
(30:33):
way more exciting than amachine.
That doesn't mean that Chat GPTcan't help with, but lots of
things.
Um I use it for complex math,mostly um rates of change that I
really don't want to have toremember how to do from you
know, college or university.
Um but I'm not asking it to, Imean, uh, you can ask it to do
(30:57):
all sorts of things.
It'll it'll come up with allsorts of you know, sometimes
hilarious results, but none thatfeel like the person or a
person.
Even famous people, which I sureI'm sure they have lots of
things, um, lots of data sourcesto draw from, way more than any
sort of typical person, stilldoesn't sound like that famous
person.
SPEAKER_00 (31:17):
I'm trying just for fun.
Didn't come out great.
SPEAKER_02 (31:22):
So in the context of employment, a resume is
something we don't revise allthe time until we need to
generally.
So on a day-to-day basis, whatwould be your advice for the
introverted, the the quietachiever, the professional?
SPEAKER_00 (31:40):
What can they do proactively to prepare, to land
their next role?
I think one of the most panic,panicked moments for somebody,
particularly a quiet achiever,is the um comes with the
(32:00):
realization that they need theresume tomorrow.
Um and and nobody can do thatwell.
SPEAKER_01 (32:06):
Um so if that is not the end game, um, preparing
today for an unspecified amountof time into the future when
this would be required is areally, really good thing.
Um, it can be as simple as justkeeping a running document of
all the things that happen inthe course of a week or so, um
(32:31):
however long, so that the datadoesn't get stale, you don't
forget.
Um, and keeping that informationoff your work computer,
somewhere on your own private umdata storage, because as can
happen, and this actuallyhappened to a client of mine
just this week.
Um, well, I found out about itthis week.
It happened a while ago.
Um, his position was terminatedand he lost access to his work
(32:54):
computer and his email, and itcaused a whole host of problems.
So having all of that on yourown personal devices is a really
good thing, and keeping track ofum what the context of the
problem or the situation was,the specific challenge that the
person was trying to solve, theactions they took to make that
(33:16):
happen, and the results maybeongoing of all of this sort of
ecosystem the things thathappened in this ecosystem.
And that acronym is a good oneto remember, and resume writers
use it all the time.
It's car.
So it's for challenge, C forcar, C for challenge, A for
action, R for results.
And to be fair, that's not howyou would tell the story in your
(33:38):
resume.
Um, you wouldn't reallynecessarily tell the story in a
chronological way.
You would probably start withthe big wins.
But it's a very easy mnemonic toremember to capture the stories
as they happen in real time.
Uh, because maybe you know thechallenge on a Monday, but you
don't know the action untilThursday.
And then the outcomes, theresults aren't for a month.
(34:00):
Uh, so keeping space for that ina document or a spreadsheet can
be really, really helpful.
And it also um keeps us fromhaving to keep all that data in
our head.
Um, then we can make space forother things that are um maybe
more immediate.
Um so offloading that to a youknow, external brain, if you
will, can be very helpful.
(34:20):
And then you can do multipleversions of these, you know, for
everything that's going on inyour professional life.
SPEAKER_00 (34:27):
Um there's no need to keep it all, all the
nitty-gritty details uh inactive memory, let's say.
SPEAKER_02 (34:34):
I think that's a really, really good um
recommendation to think aboutthe challenge, the action, the
results, and to document them asthey go.
That's something a quietachiever and introvert would um
really excel at documenting, youknow, paying attention to
details, but then alsoremembering that this is a
practice, an ongoing practice.
(34:56):
And it helps them keep that,those stories alive, or when
they need to tell them and whenthey need to, you know, um show
proof that they have donesomething.
It's inactive memory.
It's not, oh my gosh, I've gotto scramble.
You know, what was that thing Idid, you know, a couple of
months ago?
And already the quiet achieverhas a lot in the heads.
(35:17):
They are constantlyoverthinking.
So, you know, the idea of thisexternal brain dump, you know,
having somewhere safe and secureto keep track of all these uh
experiences, these successes,these stories, so that they can
pull them together at the righttime and use them to advantage.
I think that's a brilliantpractice.
So thank you for sharing that.
(35:38):
What is one final piece ofadvice you have for the for the
introverts, the quiet achievers,the deep thinkers who are
listening?
SPEAKER_00 (35:50):
I can't possibly be the first person to say this.
But I think nobody isscrutinizing oneself the way
they are.
SPEAKER_01 (36:03):
So everybody is focused on their own stuff and
not on on what your your ownsort of presentation is.
Um I think in the in theprofessional sense or uh job
search sense, um, what thatreally means is somebody has to
go outside their comfort zoneand make these details and facts
(36:27):
and um sort of car statementstories very visible because
other people are not going to belooking for them in you the way
that you are um, the way thatyou've stored them in your own
brain.
Um they they won't have accessto it, or they won't care, or
they're introverted, or they'reself-centered.
(36:49):
All these things could be true,or some overlapping um uh
circumstances may be possibletoo.
So to understand that theresume, the interview, maybe the
annual review, depending on thecontext, these are the
appropriate venues to say I didsomething well.
(37:10):
And it's socially acceptable,it's expected, and your audience
is never gonna know unless youtell them.
SPEAKER_00 (37:19):
So tell them.
Tell them.
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (37:22):
And tell them from a place of not so much of look how
great I am, but this is whatI've done, this is what I'm
capable of doing, this is how Ican help you solve this
particular problem.
So I think where we come fromthat position of the word that
you said, care and caring, uscaring about the job that we do
and doing it well, and caringenough to express it, to
(37:46):
articulate it, to verbalize itso that someone else gets it,
because then they can see how toconnect the dots and they can
see that we can help them solvetheir problems.
That I think we are doingourselves and them a service.
And I think that comes from aplace of as well, of duty, of
service, of moral obligation, ofwanting to make that positive
(38:07):
difference.
So there is a reason why we aretalking.
It's not for our own benefitonly or to blow our own trumpet
or anything like that.
It's more because we care aboutsomething bigger.
And I think that's a very goodplace to wrap up our
conversation.
And I really appreciate youcoming on and sharing your time
and your wisdom with us today,Amy.
What is the best way for peopleto connect with you and work
(38:29):
with you?
SPEAKER_01 (38:30):
Thank you so much for having me.
So I know this has just beenamazing.
I've truly enjoyed getting tomeet you, to getting to learn
about your practice.
Um, so thank you so much forhaving me here.
Um, for people who want to findme, um, my website is
fivestrengths.com.
That's f-e, s t-r-en-g t-h-s dotcom.
(38:50):
And I am always on LinkedIn, andmy handle is my first name,
middle initial, and last name.
SPEAKER_02 (38:56):
So Amy L.
Adler.
Brilliant.
We will make sure to have allthis in the show notes for
people to reach out to you.
So if you've enjoyed today'sepisode, be sure to leave a
five-star rating and review tohelp the Quiet Warrior podcast
reach more introverts and quietachievers around the world.
And for access to the latestresources on how to thrive as an
introvert, make sure you'resubscribed to the Visible
(39:18):
Introvert newsletter atserenalo.com.au.
See you on the next episode.
I'm so grateful that you're heretoday.
If you found this contentvaluable, please share it on
your social media channels andsubscribe to the show on your
favorite listening platform.
Together we can help moreintroverts thrive.
(39:39):
To receive more upliftingcontent like this, connect with
me on Instagram at SerenaloQuiet Warrior Coach.
Thank you for sharing your timeand your energy with me.
See you on the next episode.
Hi, I'm Serena Lowe.
If you're used to hearing thatintroverts are shy, anxious,
antisocial, and lack goodcommunication and leadership
skills, then this podcast is foryou.
You're about to fall in lovewith a calm, introspective, and
profound person that you are.
Discover what's fun, unique, andpowerful about being an
(00:21):
introvert and how to make theelegant transition from quiet
achiever to quiet warrior inyour life and work, anytime you
want, in more ways than youimagined possible.
Welcome.
Our guest today is Amy Adler,president of Five Strengths
Career Transition Experts,specializing in resumes and
(00:44):
career portfolio development.
She is a certified master resumewriter, certified executive
resume master, and nationallycertified online profile expert.
She judges in the annual Toastof the Resume Writing Industry
Awards, having won first andthird places for Best Executive
(01:04):
Resume.
She presents to industry and topeers and is the author of
Courageous Career ChangeFearlessly Earn the Executive
Role You Deserve.
Welcome, Amy, to the QuietWarrior Podcast.
Hello, and thank you so much forinviting me.
Amy, I want to go back to thebeginning where we talked about
(01:25):
conflating introversion withshyness.
What are your thoughts andwhat's your experience been with
this?
SPEAKER_01 (01:32):
Thank you for raising that.
We did talk about that because Ithink it's um a worthwhile
distinction, at least formyself.
I have always thought that I wasan introvert, that uh I clearly
uh needed to recharge afterspending time with people as
(01:53):
much as I enjoyed their company.
I really value my time alone.
Um, and I and I always felt likethat was a good identifier for
myself.
Um but I never felt super quiet.
I always felt um like I wasmaybe the not the most
(02:14):
boisterous in the room by far,but very vocal.
Um, as much as I was observing,I like to talk.
I like to talk about things thatare interesting and talk to
interesting people and to hearwhat people have to say.
Um so many for many years, mywhole childhood, adolescence,
(02:35):
maybe even up until my twenties,I was terrified though, and all
in spite of all of this,terrified to get up in front of
people.
Um genuinely, genuinely hadshaking knees and quivering and
didn't know what to do with myhands and um felt more than
awkward um in front of a groupof people.
(02:57):
So every year in, you know, inschool when we had to do
presentations, it was my leastfavorite thing to do.
And then I attended graduateschool business school, in which
we had to present all the time.
I mean, weekly, it felt like wewere in teams getting up and
talking in front of the class ofyou know 50 students all the
(03:21):
time.
And I think the repetition ofthe process and the exposure to
it over and over again got meout of um what might have been
termed shyness at the time, atleast in that context.
And I discovered that I lovedit.
(03:44):
I discovered that I lovedpresenting.
And I think now, this is ofcourse many, many years later,
what I love about it now when Iget to do it is I get to share
the things that I love aboutwhat I do and to teach people
and help them where or meet themwhere they are and help them
become more effective in theircareers and their job search and
(04:06):
that kind of a thing.
So I won't say that that doesn'tjust absolutely destroy me in
terms of my energy because itdoes, but it it's so much fun to
get up in front of people and tolet go of the fears I think that
plagued me as a young person.
(04:27):
Um and to be in my element.
Um, I really like that.
And I'm I'm actually quiteenvious of people now who
remember to measure their speechcadence and um understand that
um people are not listening atthe rate maybe that I'm
(04:48):
speaking.
I think I joked with you lasttime that I felt like a bull in
a China shop sometimes.
And you asked me, Did I didanybody ever say that to me?
And I said, no, no one ever saidthat, but I always feel like I
just have everything to say.
And I think that's that umagain, still that introversion
at my core self and that needfor quiet and that need for um
(05:10):
introspection, but not that kindof shyness that used to um just
just dog me everywhere.
SPEAKER_02 (05:19):
So it sounds to me like what you're saying is that
with practice, with exposure,with repetition, one can move
away from that sense of I'm shyor I can't speak to actually
being becoming in your element.
And I think what's importantalso is that you notice that
it's when you speak aboutinteresting things and you meet
(05:42):
interesting people, and whenyou're curious about what they
have to say, that's what helpsyou get into your element.
That's where you getenthusiastic.
SPEAKER_00 (05:52):
That's so true, and thank you for framing it that
way.
SPEAKER_01 (05:56):
Um, I think, as most I think young people are, um, I
was thinking all about what arepeople going to say about my
presentation, about my way ofshowing up in the world.
And and once I kind of got awayfrom that and started having
fun, um it became so mucheasier.
(06:19):
So I think I get more worriedthese days when I'm speaking
one-on-one that I might say thewrong thing, because inevitably
I'll say the wrong thing.
Um, whereas I don't feel quitethat way in a room full of
people when I know I have apurpose in being there and
teaching them something thathopefully they find interesting
(06:40):
and important as I um share whatI know.
I I hope that's the case.
SPEAKER_02 (06:45):
I find that very interesting that you put it that
way too, because a lot ofintroverts tell me that they
prefer speaking one-on-one orone-to-a small group.
But I remember in ourconversation, you spoke about
how much easier it is to speakto a room full of people than to
just a few.
SPEAKER_00 (07:03):
Why do you think that is?
SPEAKER_01 (07:06):
I think on some level, fundamentally, there's I
practice when I'm going topresent, right?
I know what I'm going to say,and I can um I can manage many
parameters that um I can'tmanage in a one-to-one
conversation.
And please don't misunderstandme.
I love intimate conversationsthat have real depth and
(07:28):
meaning.
I don't love small talk thatmuch.
Um but I am I still wonder, youknow, that time once in high
school I said this thing andwhat did they think about me?
And this is we're talkingdecades ago.
So these kinds of things stickwith me.
Um but the opportunity to umshare uh an emotional space with
(07:54):
one person um is is sorewarding, but scary too, um,
because I feel like I'm notgiven that opportunity to
practice.
I don't know what's coming.
Um, I'm really um peeling backon my layers, aren't I?
SPEAKER_02 (08:11):
Yes, I think that is the gift and the mystery of that
one-on-one connection.
And maybe that's also areflection on the introvert, the
introvert's relationship withuncertainty.
Maybe we like to be prepared.
We like to be to walk into asituation knowing what we're
going to say and doing our bestwith that time that we're given.
(08:36):
Whereas in a one-on-oneinteraction with a new person,
sometimes we we don't know thatperson well enough.
So we're not very sure where theboundaries are, where the
parameters are, what we can andcan't say.
We're sort of feeling our wayalong.
So there is a lot of you know,mystery, a lot of uncertainty,
and maybe that makes us a littlebit hesitant.
SPEAKER_00 (08:56):
And I think that comes from having been in that
kind of experience before.
SPEAKER_01 (09:01):
Am I replaying an experience that I've had in the
past in a totally different umconversation with a different
person in a different time in mylife?
Am I going to have that same umsort of deer in the headlights
uh feeling for having said thewrong thing or come across the
wrong way?
Um so maybe getting out of oldpatterns too is a good thing.
(09:24):
And um as they say, preparingfor all unforeseen events um
just not possible.
Um, I think I don't know if it'strue for introverts.
I I feel like a lot of people Iknow who are um kind of have the
same, I don't know, perspectiveis um we just want everything to
be perfect.
SPEAKER_00 (09:44):
We just want it to be perfect the way it should be.
SPEAKER_01 (09:49):
And and because there are no do-overs.
But I think people are alsoreally kind and probably more
focused on themselves than theyare on us.
Um especially another introvertum would not be so judgmental
because maybe they've been inthe same in the same boat.
SPEAKER_02 (10:07):
You're right.
You're right.
It takes one to recognize one.
And I think we are in generalkind people.
We are also very reflective andself-aware.
And so we understand when we seea kindred spirit, you know,
going through those mentalloops.
We know what it's like to replayand to be haunted by things that
happened a long time ago, and towonder what if, and and maybe
(10:32):
almost wish we could go back intime and fix that thing, that
conversation.
But um I think that's just thehuman experience.
And introverts and quietachievers being more likely to
be perfectionist about thesethings, wanting things to go
well, wanting things to go wellfor the other person as well, to
(10:54):
for them to have a goodexperience.
I think that comes also from aplace of caring, isn't it?
And being conscientious, payingattention to detail.
SPEAKER_00 (11:02):
And all of those are strengths.
SPEAKER_01 (11:07):
You know, I have heard that introverts are in
particular um very good atmirroring the other, their
conversational, the energy oftheir conversational partner.
And um I think because peopleare self-reflective and caring
(11:27):
and um paying attention, as yousay, conscientious about their
environment and the thetemperature of the room, if you
will.
Um, that whether if if somebodyis very energetic, they can they
can stand up to that, they canthey can match that energy, even
if it's kind of unusual andpainful.
Um and but but toning it downand being like I said, having
(11:52):
that sort of intimate discussionis a place of real comfort and
being able to to match thatlevel of um well, energy, um, I
think is is a is a commonality,I think.
SPEAKER_02 (12:07):
Yes, I I think the the introvert is uh gifted in
that sense, being sensitive anduh noticing what's making
someone comfortable,uncomfortable, and holding the
space for for that person tofeel safe.
Because that's important tothem.
And so they assume it'simportant to the other person
they are conversing with aswell.
(12:29):
So I'm curious to know in yourwork as a resume writer, I guess
you would be working with, youknow, some introverts and some
quiet achievers as well.
So what is your experience likewith, you know, when someone
comes to you with a resume thatneeds a making over?
They come with a set ofexpectations, you know, some
(12:50):
career goals that they want toachieve, you know, something
they want to land a betterposition.
What is how do you see thatintersection between them being
introverted, being very quiet,and what they say about
themselves in a resume?
SPEAKER_00 (13:06):
I think I do uh attract the quiet achiever type.
SPEAKER_01 (13:13):
Which doesn't, it's not to say that these are people
who don't speak or don't speakabout themselves.
So they don't speak as highly ofthemselves as the rest of the
world would expect them to do,because they are just
exceptional people and it'suncomfortable for them to offer
(13:36):
themselves up this way.
They're happy to talk about workand making somebody else's um
professional experience betterand helping a uh a client of
theirs or a customer of theirsready and willing to um hold
space for any of those things,but hard for them to do it for
themselves.
(13:57):
So I think they come with a realknowledge of who they are, but
an unwillingness to discuss it,which is an interesting
intersection.
Um so helping them uh with aframework that is something they
(14:18):
can follow so they can indulge,if you will, in this um
experience of talking aboutthemselves.
And I and I think a lot of themdo think it's indulgent or
boastful um on the on the farend um because it's not
something they're accustomed todoing.
(14:38):
So foundationally, I havelearned that giving well,
anybody, but particularly peoplewho are not accustomed to
speaking about themselves,giving them the opportunity to
say whatever they want.
Let's start from the beginningand whatever floodgates you want
(14:59):
to open, I am here to receivethat.
And I want to because I want toknow what the real story is,
what the raw emotion around yourhistory is, what are the great
successes and you know, maybesome of the things that aren't
so savory because everybody hasexperiences like that.
And I don't think these peopleare accustomed, or nobody's ever
(15:22):
given them the opportunity tosay whatever was on their mind
about themselves.
Um, and I think mostly becauseit's not considered polite
conversation to just hold courtabout who you are.
But in this resume writing jobsearch experience, this is the
exact time that somebody shoulddevelop a feel for these kinds
(15:42):
of conversations and feelcomfortable talking about these
things.
So once they have um sort oflaid out whatever they want to
say or whatever they want towrite, and there's lots of ways
we can get this information,then I ask them very structured
questions in a very structuredprocess.
So I can have all the detailsthat I need, but not at the
(16:05):
expense of um, I don't know,stepping all over them before
they have a chance to lookcomfortable in that very unusual
space.
SPEAKER_02 (16:18):
So what I heard you say is you create that
psychological safety for them tofeel I can talk about my
successes, my failures, myexperiences.
Someone is actually listening tome, someone cares about what
I've been through.
And that is not an experiencemost people would have had the
opportunity to to go through inthat positive sense.
(16:42):
Because the the next time wetalk about ourselves is probably
at the annual performancereview.
And that again is another thingfor the introvert and the quiet
achiever who's almost trying todim their light, you know, and
sometimes self-sabotageunconsciously.
So do you find that afterworking with them in sessions
(17:04):
like that, that they becomeolder and and better able to
express themselves when it comesto, let's say, the the
performance review?
SPEAKER_01 (17:15):
Well, I hope they become bolder.
Um, but I hope that in theirhearts, in their guts, wherever
they feel that sensation, theyfeel more confident.
How they express it may be adifferent, different process.
But for them to see theirexperiences and their successes
um through someone else's eyes,um, reflected back to them.
(17:39):
I don't, I don't know if that'sthe right term.
Maybe I'm a mirror, maybe I'm aum a catalyst for um this
transformation that they'reexperiencing.
Um, but they can they can ownthat um and understand that
their self-perception, it's it'sI'm not going to say it's not
real, but there's somethingbigger that they can latch on to
(18:01):
and show off, if you will, totheir current leadership in an
annual review, as you say, or ina future uh job search uh in an
interview, um, and certainly ontheir resume.
And I think the key is in inthat context of of talking about
themselves, is to speak thetruth, um, to get the well, to
(18:27):
get the truth from them in theseconversations, but then allow
them to say what is fact andtake some of the emotion out of
the declaration that these aregood things that happened on my
watch.
So it it feels less likeboasting.
Oh, it shouldn't feel like thatat all.
(18:47):
Um, but that kind of a levelingwith one's audience means that
the facts are incontrovertible.
This is what took place, this ishow I intervened, or how I made
a change, or how I led.
And this was the outcome ofthese uh series of
circumstances, and that's it.
So there's not this look howamazing I am.
(19:11):
It's I did these things, and byall accounts, these things are
good because they had thefollowing effect on my group, my
team, my business, my executiveleadership, my company, whatever
it might be, my customers.
And there's not a lot of arguingthat can happen after that.
Um, I like to tell my clientsthat they, when they share these
(19:33):
things, they their audiencecannot argue with whether it's
true or false because it's true.
They can only say whether theyneed somebody who knows how to
do the things that the candidateis putting out there.
And that makes it, I think, amuch easier conversation because
it gets people out of their ownway and gives and gives them the
comfort of, I think, standingwhere they are most comfortable
(19:58):
in speaking about um declarativefacts, um, which then maybe
leads into something hopefullydeeper, more um emotionally,
well, hopefully emotionallyintelligently based, but
emotionally based.
SPEAKER_02 (20:15):
I think what you said there, there is a lot more
layers and nuance than what itsounds like.
You've made it sound like it'ssomething very simple for the
person who has their resumetransformed in that way to a
like a before and an after, andit's all data driven.
But I think for the the personwho has a tendency to overthink
(20:38):
it, they add their own layers ofskepticism about themselves,
which then becomes a kind ofself-sabotage and diminishing
their own light.
So when you say, you know,because I did that, you know,
that led to this other outcome,to them it's not quite so
(20:58):
simple.
They don't see it as that linearkind of a transformation.
It's they they questionthemselves at many points along
the way, like, oh, well, youknow, it was a team effort.
It wasn't all just me.
Um, I had the help of this andthis person, and you know,
actually I didn't do all thatmuch.
And how do I know that myleadership was really
(21:20):
transformational and really madea difference?
So they would be askingthemselves all these things.
So, how do you help them, youknow, to navigate over those
mental humps?
SPEAKER_01 (21:30):
It it's more common than you would think that
somebody in a C-suite positionwould say, Well, wouldn't
anybody else who had my job doit this way?
And my response is always, howcould that be true?
You're the only one there.
And if it happened on yourwatch, especially when people
(21:52):
are at more elevated levels, theexpectation is that somebody
would understand an audience,their audience would understand
that they didn't do every lastthing, but that they led the
charge, that they um developedthe esprit de corps, that they
uh set the direction and madesure things happened the way
(22:15):
they were supposed to happen.
So, not so much that they wouldtake credit for everything, but
that they would take um, well,all of the responsibility and
none of the credit in somesense, but that the outcome was
this very positive thing.
And I think a lot of peoplesecretly want to be recognized
(22:38):
for the good that they do, butfeel very uncomfortable shouting
that from the rooftops.
I can only imagine how that mustfeel to somebody who is
extremely quiet.
That must feel extremelystrange.
And I delight in telling myclients that your resume is the
place to do that.
(22:59):
And this is I am the safestaudience you will ever have
because I am on your side.
There is nothing you could tellme to hurt me, there's nothing
you could say that would make methink you're a blowhard.
There's there are no wronganswers here.
And I am I'm I'm super curiousall the time.
(23:19):
I want to know what makes peopletick and how they do what they
do.
And if anybody is going tosupport them all the way through
the process, it's going to be mebecause their current high uh
manager, their hiring manager,whatever it might be, or the
recruiter, they all havedifferent obligations, but my
obligation is to them.
So I just open up the virtualroom, so to speak, and say, tell
(23:41):
me, tell me how you feel, tellme what you think, and I will
use every skill I have to makethis represent you well on the
page so that everyone else cansee it too.
SPEAKER_02 (23:56):
So you are that safe space for your clients to feel
that they can tell you anything,they can be themselves, they can
talk about theiraccomplishments, and you will
help them frame it in such a waythat they themselves feel
internally congruent.
Because I think that's the thething that's missing, isn't it?
(24:19):
Externally, something may lookreally good, but that person
needs to take ownership of it inan emotional sense too.
If they look at it and they saythat's not me, then there isn't
that internal congruence.
So there must be somethingmagical in the framework you use
and the way you work with yourclients so that helps them
realize, oh my goodness, Iactually did all this.
(24:40):
I'm much more accomplished, moreamazing than I gave myself
credit for.
SPEAKER_00 (24:47):
I I don't think it's magical, um, but I like
terminology.
SPEAKER_01 (24:51):
I think it's surprising to to them that they
they don't start with thelanguage to describe their
experiences in the way that theyneed to, so that somebody else
can understand this, digest itquite easily.
Um so I I hope that over manyyears of doing this, I have
(25:15):
developed a skill set thatenables me to be that um that
translator for them.
SPEAKER_00 (25:20):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (25:21):
And whenever somebody does, and this has
happened lots of times, somebodysays, wow, is this too much?
Is this just this feels like umall I ever did in my life was
something good and in all thesedifferent ways.
When in fact that I mean theytold me the story, so I
certainly didn't craft them fromfrom from nothing.
(25:42):
So I ask them, is everything onthis document true?
And the presupposition is thatthey would never tell me a
falsehood, they wouldn't lie,they wouldn't make things up.
I've never had anybody do that.
Um and when they agree thatthese things happened, and I so
(26:03):
do you see yourself reflected inevery statement?
If they are true, do you seeyourself in every one?
And I've never gotten a no.
Um, I did have one person saythis is many years ago, stuck in
my head all these years.
Um, it was an HR um manager, Ibelieve she was.
And she saw her resume.
(26:24):
And so you would think maybesomebody in HR would have um
sort of more knowledge aboutwhat a resume should look like,
but it's always hard to talkabout ourselves anyway.
So she called me up after shesaw the resume and said, I don't
know who this girl is, but Ithink I need to hire her.
And we just broke out into, youknow, tons of laughter and and
had a good chat.
Um, I love that kind of asentiment that somebody feels
(26:48):
like they see themselves sodifferently.
And maybe they just neededpermission.
Not that I get to give thempermission, they they should
have it without me.
I don't have any, I don't holdany keys to this.
SPEAKER_00 (26:58):
Um, but it's so nice when people um reflect back to
me that they took their blindersoff, I guess.
SPEAKER_01 (27:10):
Um it's lovely and it happens all the time, and
there's nothing that makes mehappier.
SPEAKER_00 (27:16):
I mean, nothing.
SPEAKER_02 (27:18):
You mentioned being a mirror and a catalyst, and
perhaps what you do is that youhelp people recognize
themselves.
SPEAKER_00 (27:28):
It's a really good way of putting it.
SPEAKER_01 (27:31):
So I foundationally, I am not going to make anything
up.
I am, I'm not going to, youknow, Chat GPT hallucinate some
sort of new persona or new setof experiences for somebody.
There's nothing going on likethat.
Um, the investigative process issuch that I want to learn
everything there is to knowabout somebody's career.
(27:52):
But I also want to be, when thisis all said and done, I want to
be invisible.
And maybe that's myintroversion.
Um, it's funny, um, in college Iwas a stage manager, which meant
I was dressed in black andwalked behind the um the stage
and the sets and the didn't, youknow, I wasn't ever present to
the audience.
But what I did made, you know,had an impact.
(28:14):
I feel like I'm just aperpetually dressed in black and
and hiding from the the overallintended audience because I want
the person who is doing theactivity of job search or
talking to people.
I want them to shine.
And if I can make them shinejust a little brighter, that
makes me happy.
And I'm really okay being in thebackground.
SPEAKER_02 (28:34):
I think that's a beautiful description of the
power of the quiet achiever andthe person who is in the
background supporting otherpeople to shine.
And we all need that stagemanager.
We all need someone behind uswho, you know, nudges us, tells
us it's okay, tells us what weshould do next, cues us in,
reassures us, and all, you know,just keeps everything flowing
(28:55):
smoothly.
We all need someone like you inour lives.
So, since you mentioned ChatGPT, what are your thoughts on
AI-generated resumes?
Oh my goodness.
Um, okay.
SPEAKER_01 (29:06):
If I haven't already been fully transparent in this
discussion, um now I get to beeven more transparent.
SPEAKER_00 (29:13):
Um the LLMs, large language models, there's all
sorts of them out there, areamazing at doing things quickly,
but not necessarily doing thingswell.
SPEAKER_01 (29:27):
And they're never going to know more about an
individual than that personknows inside themselves.
They're just not at they likehow could they know?
Unless the data is out there andwe tell it in some way, there's
no way that it's going to inventplausible information about an
(29:50):
individual, which means that aresume that is wholly driven by,
or even in part maybe driven byChat TPT or whatever the other
ones are.
SPEAKER_00 (30:00):
Is going to be less detailed, more bland, and maybe
just a notch too clever.
SPEAKER_01 (30:09):
Um so that it's it's inauthentic.
Um and I don't think that's meas a resume writer, uh speaking
as a resume writer per se.
I think that could be true forany kind of prose or any kind of
text that might come out ofthis.
It can only um digest and spitout what it's been told.
So I hope that people will givethemselves credit for being way,
(30:33):
way more exciting than amachine.
That doesn't mean that Chat GPTcan't help with, but lots of
things.
Um I use it for complex math,mostly um rates of change that I
really don't want to have toremember how to do from you
know, college or university.
Um but I'm not asking it to, Imean, uh, you can ask it to do
(30:57):
all sorts of things.
It'll it'll come up with allsorts of you know, sometimes
hilarious results, but none thatfeel like the person or a
person.
Even famous people, which I sureI'm sure they have lots of
things, um, lots of data sourcesto draw from, way more than any
sort of typical person, stilldoesn't sound like that famous
person.
SPEAKER_00 (31:17):
I'm trying just for fun.
Didn't come out great.
SPEAKER_02 (31:22):
So in the context of employment, a resume is
something we don't revise allthe time until we need to
generally.
So on a day-to-day basis, whatwould be your advice for the
introverted, the the quietachiever, the professional?
SPEAKER_00 (31:40):
What can they do proactively to prepare, to land
their next role?
I think one of the most panic,panicked moments for somebody,
particularly a quiet achiever,is the um comes with the
(32:00):
realization that they need theresume tomorrow.
Um and and nobody can do thatwell.
SPEAKER_01 (32:06):
Um so if that is not the end game, um, preparing
today for an unspecified amountof time into the future when
this would be required is areally, really good thing.
Um, it can be as simple as justkeeping a running document of
all the things that happen inthe course of a week or so, um
(32:31):
however long, so that the datadoesn't get stale, you don't
forget.
Um, and keeping that informationoff your work computer,
somewhere on your own private umdata storage, because as can
happen, and this actuallyhappened to a client of mine
just this week.
Um, well, I found out about itthis week.
It happened a while ago.
Um, his position was terminatedand he lost access to his work
(32:54):
computer and his email, and itcaused a whole host of problems.
So having all of that on yourown personal devices is a really
good thing, and keeping track ofum what the context of the
problem or the situation was,the specific challenge that the
person was trying to solve, theactions they took to make that
(33:16):
happen, and the results maybeongoing of all of this sort of
ecosystem the things thathappened in this ecosystem.
And that acronym is a good oneto remember, and resume writers
use it all the time.
It's car.
So it's for challenge, C forcar, C for challenge, A for
action, R for results.
And to be fair, that's not howyou would tell the story in your
(33:38):
resume.
Um, you wouldn't reallynecessarily tell the story in a
chronological way.
You would probably start withthe big wins.
But it's a very easy mnemonic toremember to capture the stories
as they happen in real time.
Uh, because maybe you know thechallenge on a Monday, but you
don't know the action untilThursday.
And then the outcomes, theresults aren't for a month.
(34:00):
Uh, so keeping space for that ina document or a spreadsheet can
be really, really helpful.
And it also um keeps us fromhaving to keep all that data in
our head.
Um, then we can make space forother things that are um maybe
more immediate.
Um so offloading that to a youknow, external brain, if you
will, can be very helpful.
(34:20):
And then you can do multipleversions of these, you know, for
everything that's going on inyour professional life.
SPEAKER_00 (34:27):
Um there's no need to keep it all, all the
nitty-gritty details uh inactive memory, let's say.
SPEAKER_02 (34:34):
I think that's a really, really good um
recommendation to think aboutthe challenge, the action, the
results, and to document them asthey go.
That's something a quietachiever and introvert would um
really excel at documenting, youknow, paying attention to
details, but then alsoremembering that this is a
practice, an ongoing practice.
(34:56):
And it helps them keep that,those stories alive, or when
they need to tell them and whenthey need to, you know, um show
proof that they have donesomething.
It's inactive memory.
It's not, oh my gosh, I've gotto scramble.
You know, what was that thing Idid, you know, a couple of
months ago?
And already the quiet achieverhas a lot in the heads.
(35:17):
They are constantlyoverthinking.
So, you know, the idea of thisexternal brain dump, you know,
having somewhere safe and secureto keep track of all these uh
experiences, these successes,these stories, so that they can
pull them together at the righttime and use them to advantage.
I think that's a brilliantpractice.
So thank you for sharing that.
(35:38):
What is one final piece ofadvice you have for the for the
introverts, the quiet achievers,the deep thinkers who are
listening?
SPEAKER_00 (35:50):
I can't possibly be the first person to say this.
But I think nobody isscrutinizing oneself the way
they are.
SPEAKER_01 (36:03):
So everybody is focused on their own stuff and
not on on what your your ownsort of presentation is.
Um I think in the in theprofessional sense or uh job
search sense, um, what thatreally means is somebody has to
go outside their comfort zoneand make these details and facts
(36:27):
and um sort of car statementstories very visible because
other people are not going to belooking for them in you the way
that you are um, the way thatyou've stored them in your own
brain.
Um they they won't have accessto it, or they won't care, or
they're introverted, or they'reself-centered.
(36:49):
All these things could be true,or some overlapping um uh
circumstances may be possibletoo.
So to understand that theresume, the interview, maybe the
annual review, depending on thecontext, these are the
appropriate venues to say I didsomething well.
(37:10):
And it's socially acceptable,it's expected, and your audience
is never gonna know unless youtell them.
SPEAKER_00 (37:19):
So tell them.
Tell them.
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (37:22):
And tell them from a place of not so much of look how
great I am, but this is whatI've done, this is what I'm
capable of doing, this is how Ican help you solve this
particular problem.
So I think where we come fromthat position of the word that
you said, care and caring, uscaring about the job that we do
and doing it well, and caringenough to express it, to
(37:46):
articulate it, to verbalize itso that someone else gets it,
because then they can see how toconnect the dots and they can
see that we can help them solvetheir problems.
That I think we are doingourselves and them a service.
And I think that comes from aplace of as well, of duty, of
service, of moral obligation, ofwanting to make that positive
(38:07):
difference.
So there is a reason why we aretalking.
It's not for our own benefitonly or to blow our own trumpet
or anything like that.
It's more because we care aboutsomething bigger.
And I think that's a very goodplace to wrap up our
conversation.
And I really appreciate youcoming on and sharing your time
and your wisdom with us today,Amy.
What is the best way for peopleto connect with you and work
(38:29):
with you?
SPEAKER_01 (38:30):
Thank you so much for having me.
So I know this has just beenamazing.
I've truly enjoyed getting tomeet you, to getting to learn
about your practice.
Um, so thank you so much forhaving me here.
Um, for people who want to findme, um, my website is
fivestrengths.com.
That's f-e, s t-r-en-g t-h-s dotcom.
(38:50):
And I am always on LinkedIn, andmy handle is my first name,
middle initial, and last name.
SPEAKER_02 (38:56):
So Amy L.
Adler.
Brilliant.
We will make sure to have allthis in the show notes for
people to reach out to you.
So if you've enjoyed today'sepisode, be sure to leave a
five-star rating and review tohelp the Quiet Warrior podcast
reach more introverts and quietachievers around the world.
And for access to the latestresources on how to thrive as an
introvert, make sure you'resubscribed to the Visible
(39:18):
Introvert newsletter atserenalo.com.au.
See you on the next episode.
I'm so grateful that you're heretoday.
If you found this contentvaluable, please share it on
your social media channels andsubscribe to the show on your
favorite listening platform.
Together we can help moreintroverts thrive.
(39:39):
To receive more upliftingcontent like this, connect with
me on Instagram at SerenaloQuiet Warrior Coach.
Thank you for sharing your timeand your energy with me.
See you on the next episode.
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