October 19, 2025 • 40 mins
In this insightful episode of The Quiet Warrior Podcast, I speak with Susan Barber — a leadership visibility coach, former Fortune 500 executive, and author of The Visibility Factor and the upcoming Your Journey to Visibility Workbook.
Susan shares her powerful journey from sitting quietly in the back of corporate meeting rooms to becoming a visible, influential leader who helps others do the same. Drawing from 25 years at Kraft Heinz, she opens up about overcoming imposter syndrome, reframing self-doubt, and learning to take small, consistent actions toward visibility — all while staying true to her introverted nature.
If you’ve ever wondered how to be seen and heard without being loud, this conversation will inspire you to start your own journey — one micro-action at a time.
In This Episode, We Discuss:
- Evolving from invisible to visible: how Susan went from hiding in the back of meetings to sitting confidently at the executive table.
- Reframing imposter syndrome: why feeling unsure can actually be a sign of growth — and how humility can work in your favor.
- Preparation over panic: how introverts can replace the fear of “freezing up” with calm readiness and self-trust.
- Feedback as fuel for growth: Susan’s practical advice for exploring — not fearing — feedback, and using it as a leadership superpower.
- Little experiments, big impact: how to build confidence through small, strategic steps instead of giant leaps.
- Owning your narrative: why it’s essential to define how you want others to perceive you — and how to start embodying that version of yourself today.
Key Takeaways:
- Visibility isn’t about self-promotion; it’s about sharing value and contributing meaningfully.
- Every interaction is an opportunity for visibility — from meetings to everyday conversations.
- Being visible can start with something as small as offering help, asking a thoughtful question, or sharing your team’s wins.
- You were hired for a reason. Your voice and ideas matter.
- Confidence grows from trusting yourself, trying new things, and staying curious.
Resources Mentioned:
- The Visibility Factor
- Your Journey to Visibility Workbook (upcoming)
- Free resource: The Introvert’s Guide to Visibility and Influence in the Workplace
Connect with Susan on LinkedIn
Visit Susan’s website: www.susanmbarber.com
Quote Highlights
“Every interaction is an opportunity for visibility — don’t waste it.”
“You were hired for a reason. You have a voice that matters.”
“Sometimes visibility begins with one small, bold move.”
Connect with Me
For more insights and resources for introverts and quiet achievers, subscribe to The Visible Introvert Newsletter at serenalow.com.au.
This episode was edited by Aura House Productions
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Serena Lowe.
If you're used to hearing thatintroverts are shy, anxious,
antisocial, and lack goodcommunication and leadership
skills, then this podcast is foryou.
You're about to fall in lovewith a calm, introspective, and
profound person that you are.
Discover what's fun, unique, andpowerful about being an
(00:21):
introvert and how to make theelegant transition from quiet
achiever to quiet warrior inyour life and work, anytime you
want, in more ways than youimagined possible.
Welcome.
Our guest today is Susan Barber.
Susan Barber is this leadingvisibility coach who helps
(00:42):
quiet, high-achieving corporateleaders step into the spotlight
and become visible, valued, andinfluential in their careers.
With over 25 years of experiencein leadership roles at Kraft
Heinz, spanning sales, supplychain, food service, and IT,
Susan has a deep understandingof the challenges corporate
(01:03):
leaders face.
She's also the author of TheVisibility Factor and the
upcoming Your Journey toVisibility Workbook, both of
which offer powerful tools forleaders looking to take charge
of their careers and confidentlypursue new opportunities.
As the host of the VisibilityFactor podcast, Susan is
(01:25):
passionate about empoweringprofessionals to grow their
influence and unlock their fullpotential.
Welcome Susan to the QuietWarrior Podcast.
Thank you for having me.
I'm excited to have thisconversation with you.
Susan, do you consider yourselfan introvert?
SPEAKER_01 (01:43):
You know, I think I've evolved a little bit from
the full introvert I was when Iwas in corporate.
I think sometimes I'm more of anambervert, which is I can be
extroverted when I need to, butmy my go-to is still being an
introvert.
I'd still love to stay home andread a book any day.
But you know, you have to putyourself out there if you're
(02:05):
trying to have people read yourbook or to understand what
you're doing in business.
So it's been a journey to getthere.
And I didn't start out rightaway making videos or anything
like that.
I took some time to figure outhow to do that and get
comfortable with it.
But yeah, it's not my go-to toput myself out there out on a
regular basis, but I'm gettingused to it.
SPEAKER_00 (02:29):
Do you think that has changed over the years for
you?
SPEAKER_01 (02:34):
I think so.
You know, I especially when Ifirst started my business, I was
trying to figure it all out,right?
And so you have a lot of doubtand imposter syndrome happening
there.
Like, should I even do this?
Do I know enough to start abusiness?
And I had figured out how to bemore visible in corporate before
I left.
But then coming into this world,it's like you're starting all
over again.
(02:55):
And, you know, do I have enoughcoaching hours to say I'm a good
coach?
And so you start to have allthese doubts.
And I think it it has gotteneasier, especially since I put
the book out.
I'm talking a lot more topeople, I'm presenting more.
And once I started the podcast,you know, I think that really
helped me find my voice in abigger way.
And being able to interviewother people and talk about what
(03:16):
I'm doing, you just get morecomfortable with it because you
know, you know it's important todo this so that people can learn
about you and what you do andhow you can help them.
SPEAKER_00 (03:25):
I agree with you.
A lot of it is down to practiceand repetition and doing it
enough times that you startfeeling comfortable.
And some of that impostersyndrome you're referring to
goes away.
But do you also think thatimposter syndrome could be a
good thing?
Could actually be an advantage.
SPEAKER_01 (03:45):
Well, I think it doesn't make you overly boastful
or anything like that.
It keeps you a little humble.
And I think for me, justlearning how imposter syndrome
shows up when you know you'rebeing your brain is trying to
help you and trying to keep yousafe.
And all of those things for mewere unexpected.
(04:06):
I wasn't understanding thatthat's what that meant.
And I think when I wasstruggling with some of the
doubts I had in corporate, I wasin IT for a number of years, but
without the education to reallysupport that, it felt like I
didn't fit in and I wasn't sureif I had a voice that mattered.
And so the more I started torecognize that what I am doing
(04:28):
is important and I have a lot toadd to the conversation just as
much as anyone else because ofmy business background.
So learning about what makes youunique and what you bring to the
party, I think helps people pushthat imposter syndrome into the
background because you start tovalue what you have to offer and
you start to trust yourself andtrust your intuition and be more
(04:50):
open to the fact that nobody isperfect, even though I felt like
I was for a long time.
I felt like I had to be.
And once I let that go too, Ifeel like it helped me in so
many ways to be able to stepinto who I was really supposed
to be and be the leader that Iknew I could be.
But I just had a lot of fear atthe beginning and I had to work
(05:11):
through that.
SPEAKER_00 (05:14):
I like how you said do I have a voice that matters?
I think that is probably anunconscious or you know, deeply
hidden fear that a lot ofintroverts and quiet achievers
have.
And it's not to do with nothaving anything valuable to say,
but worrying that they will beperceived in a certain way
(05:39):
because of maybe the way theyexpress themselves, maybe
because of their quietness,maybe because the louder voices
tend to dominate the room.
So, how does one become visibleas an introvert, whether it's in
corporate, whether it's startingyour own business?
What has been helpful for you tobecome more visible?
SPEAKER_01 (06:01):
I started out at in the beginning just observing
other people and what they weredoing.
And I thought, you know, I don'twant to be someone who brags.
So how can I do this in a waythat feels comfortable for me?
And when I realized I sat in aroom with like 40 of my peers
and I thought, I'm just gonnawatch and see what they do.
And some of them just offered tohelp.
(06:22):
Some of them said, Oh, you know,my team member is doing that, I
can help with that, or have themhelp with that.
And I thought, okay, all they'redoing is sharing information and
offering to help.
Well, that's not so hard.
Why can't I do that?
So once I started to recognizethat I think I was making being
visible into this big mountainto climb, and it really is small
(06:45):
actions that you start to takeevery day.
So for me, what I did in thebeginning was I created a list
of questions that I thoughtmight come in, come up in a
meeting that I could use.
Or I thought if somebodycomments on something, maybe I
can add to their comment.
Put myself on the agenda topresent something, sit at the
(07:05):
table with our IT executiveteam.
I did very visible things toshow that I was going to be
different.
And it took me a little bit oftime to get comfortable with
that.
But once I realized that I wasputting myself in a panic of not
knowing what question to ask,and that if I prepared, I didn't
have that panic, it felt so muchbetter.
(07:26):
And I agree with you about thereason that we may not speak up
is because we're worried aboutbeing criticized or judged, or
that we say something in thewrong way.
And, you know, especially whenyou have imposter syndrome,
everybody else in the roomsounds brilliant and you're so
worried about how you're goingto show up that you just your
head is like in panic mode, orwhat is that, like, you know,
(07:49):
it's kind of frozen and it can'tthink about anything.
And so you have to figure out away to prepare.
So that doesn't happen then.
You don't worry about it asmuch.
You have those little questionsright there ready to go, and you
just pick one and use it.
SPEAKER_00 (08:03):
I like how you prepare because I think that's
one of the great strengths ofbeing introverted and being a
quiet achiever, is that while wedon't do well at winging it, we
are very good when we areprepared.
So there are so many, you know,strategies, and you offered some
ways of doing that, offeringhelp, um, coming in with a list
of questions, putting yourselfon the agenda to present.
(08:25):
And I love that you'vecontrasted preparation over
panic because yes, I can relateto that panic mode where the
mind goes blank, you freeze,everything you knew suddenly is
not there, not accessible atall.
And then you risk looking likeyou're completely unprepared.
And it's not that you are, it'sjust that you panicked.
(08:47):
So was there a time when youwere the one who was hiding at
the back of the room because youhave also risen to executive
level.
How did that transition happenfor you?
SPEAKER_01 (09:02):
Well, I was sitting in the back of the room and
didn't realize I wasn't beingvisible.
I got some feedback from amentor of mine who said, you
know, you're not being veryvisible, you're sitting in the
back of the room, you're notparticipating, you're not adding
any value.
Why do you even come to themeeting?
And these were meetings that wehad basically all of my peers
and all of our senior managementin once a month.
(09:24):
And so, you know, when you walkinto this room, there's a big
table and all of the executiveteam is sitting there.
So, in my head, I'm not highenough on the org chart to sit
there.
They should sit there, right?
They're the people who are thesenior leaders.
And so I sat in the back.
And but the problem, what Ididn't realize is, you know,
(09:44):
before this feedback, I was atop talent.
I was hoping to get the nextpromotion.
I was doing all the rightthings.
So to hear that feedback wasvery shocking for me that I
hadn't realized it on my own.
I think I was a littleembarrassed that I hadn't
figured that out for myself.
But then I thought, what do Ido?
How do I, how do I resolve thisissue?
(10:07):
And so once I talked to anothermentor of mine, a business
mentor, who helped meunderstand, so you have a lot to
offer.
You were hired for a reason.
You have good ideas.
And if you're not sharing whatyou know with the leadership
team, then they might make a baddecision because you haven't
shared what you know.
And then the second thing shetold me, which I think was even
(10:29):
more impactful, is that I wasnot only holding myself back,
but I was holding my team backbecause I wasn't sharing what
they were doing and they weren'tin the room with me all the
time.
So it was really up to me to dothat.
So of course I never wanted tohurt them in any way.
It's one thing to make adecision for yourself.
It's another when you're hurtinga group.
And you know, groups that arenot seen and visible can be
(10:51):
eliminated very quickly in acompany.
So you have to be mindful ofthat as a leader of a group.
SPEAKER_00 (11:00):
So I heard two things there that make a lot of
difference, I think, for peoplewho are listening.
Number one, you were hired for areason.
And sometimes we forget that.
We we forget to look atourselves or to look at things
from the other person'sperspective, to look at the
CEO's perspective, for instance,in the whole scheme of things,
you know, for the good of thiscompany, what needs to be done,
(11:22):
who needs to be where, who needsto be doing what kind of role,
and what part do I play in thatwhole system, and how am I
fulfilling that?
So if I was hired for thisparticular reason, how am I
living up to that?
And so when it when you startlooking at it that way, I think
it reinforces and maybe itcounters that imposter syndrome.
(11:47):
I belong here.
I was hired for a reason.
So let me make sure I live up tothat.
And the second thing you saidwas that because you are also a
team leader, you are nowconcerned that in hiding and
playing small, you are alsoholding back your team.
So your reticence is somethingthat affects someone else's
(12:09):
professional well-being andsuccess.
Do you think that becauseintroverted introverted people
care so much about thewell-being of others, maybe
sometimes they might care forsomeone else much more than they
care for their own agenda, thatit then helps them to perhaps be
(12:30):
more empowered to be a littlebraver about becoming visible
because it's not just aboutthemselves now.
SPEAKER_01 (12:36):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
You know, I think it was thatmoment of I have to do this and
I have to do somethingdifferently because my team
needs to know how to do thistoo, right?
It's one thing to kind of holdyourself back, but when I
realized I need to figure thisout and I need to teach them,
and so I did some bold things.
(12:57):
I sat at that executive table, Igot there before everybody else
did, so that maybe one of themdidn't get a seat because I was
there.
But I thought it was importantthat I demonstrate a bold move.
I had to start to show updifferently.
And so I had my team startpresenting too, which they were
nervous to do in the beginning,but I said, I'm gonna be here
(13:19):
with you.
And I wanted them to recognizethat they had a lot of value to
provide.
And doing that just reallychanged the game for me and for
them.
So I think everybody listening,you know, think of something
that might be a little out ofyour comfort zone to try, but
demonstrates this bold side ofyou that people aren't
expecting, right?
(13:40):
Because they expected me to sitin the back of the room.
Now I'm sitting at the table.
What is going on?
Why is she up here?
So it was a really good moment.
I just remember the look ontheir faces to this day of what
is she doing at this table?
And, you know, it was fine.
They didn't kick me out, theydidn't ask me to move.
So sometimes we have to be alittle brave and we just have to
(14:02):
try something that's a littleout of character for us, a
little out of our comfort zone,and sometimes just prove to
ourselves, right?
That we have something that'simportant and that matters to to
do in the world.
And we need to start withsomething small.
SPEAKER_00 (14:18):
How did you know that you could get away with
that?
Did you have to speak to someoneor ask permission, or did you
just do it?
SPEAKER_01 (14:25):
I just did it.
I thought, you know, if they'regonna kick me out, they'll say
something.
I thought, you know, I was justgonna say, oh yeah, I totally
forgot you guys need to sithere.
Yeah, I just would have made ajoke or something.
But nobody did.
And so every meeting after that,I continued to sit there.
So, you know, I could have justdone it one time and they would
think, oh, that's just a one-offthing that she did.
(14:46):
But continuing to do that, I wasreally trying to kind of put a
line in the sand that I belonghere and I'm not going to move.
So it was a really coolexperiment to do, honestly, and
to see that it worked out sowell, not only for me, but for
my team.
And pretty soon nobody evenquestioned it.
Because the other thing that itdoes is it forces you to speak.
(15:07):
If you're at the table, so tospeak, right?
You have to speak up.
And so it forced me toparticipate in conversations.
It forced me to make a commentand share something that I might
not have ordinarily done.
So it really did put my voicefront and center in a way that,
you know, I couldn't have evenexpected when I thought about
doing it.
(15:29):
And what changed for you andyour team because of this?
You know, it was reallyinteresting because we got
involved in some things thatreally helped to demonstrate the
impact that we were making.
We were a newer group, I'll say,uh, in terms of what we were
doing.
The group existed before, butthe things that we wanted to do
to demonstrate cost savings andsimplification and which were
(15:51):
some of our big goals, uh, wefound ways to do that that no
one had ever considered doing.
And so it gave us a really greatplatform to talk about that at
this at this level and start tosay, here's some of the things
we're doing.
We're building relationshipswith our vendors, and they are
thrilled to work with us now,right?
They may not have been asthrilled to work with us in the
(16:12):
past.
And we've created a programcalled, I think we called it
best team.
Like everybody wanted to be partof the best team, internally and
externally.
And we saved hundreds ofthousands of dollars for the
company.
So it's really hard to say thatyour your group doesn't matter
now because we have demonstratedimpact galore compared to maybe
(16:34):
what previous groups had done.
So to me, those were big wins.
And I think to prove, you know,to my team and myself that we
could do it, but also to showother people that we matter.
We are important and we need tobe at the table.
SPEAKER_00 (16:47):
I think that's the coolest leadership story I've
ever heard.
Aw, thanks.
SPEAKER_01 (16:53):
Yeah, it was a lot of fun to do that.
Yeah, there's some great thingsI did in that role that I wish I
could, you know, take in so manyplaces.
There were just some things thatwe did like 360 feedback with
our vendors, and we did a lot ofdifferent things that nobody
expected a big company to do or,you know, to spend time doing.
But we thought it was soimportant to show our vendors
(17:16):
that we cared because wepartnered with them really
closely and we wanted them tofeel that.
And we had little scorecardsthat we did every month and we
would show them where theyranked.
And it was a lot of good stuffthat came out of that experience
and just sitting, havingtop-to-top meetings with vendors
and stuff just really gave meinside view of what it's like to
(17:36):
be an executive at that leveland how you have to think about
things, and that you can ask formore than you realize.
Uh, you just have to be able tohave the leverage to do it.
SPEAKER_00 (17:48):
You've brought out a very important point because you
talked about the 360 feedback.
And with the feedback loop, Iremember at the beginning you
said it was because of amentor's feedback that you
deliberately became morevisible.
And then now you actively seekfeedback from all the people you
work with.
And so that you can understandfrom their perspective, you
(18:10):
know, what's of concern to themand the bigger picture and all
that.
How do you encourage what wouldyou encourage people to do in
response to negative feedbackthat they receive?
SPEAKER_01 (18:22):
Yeah, I'm an I'm a huge person to encourage
feedback for other peoplebecause I think you don't always
know how you how you'reperceived.
And for a lot of people that Icoach, they don't know.
And so I'll encourage them toask for feedback through a
survey or through conversation.
I always feel like it's a goodway to build relationships.
(18:42):
So if they hear something, I'lltell them, let's talk about what
you heard, good and bad.
And most of the time they hear alot of good things that they
never expected and they're sosurprised.
But if they encounter somethingthat is not as positive, I'll
say, okay, let's just exploreit, right?
We have to understand is itsomething that is really crucial
(19:03):
that could hold you back, thatcould keep you from progressing
in the organization?
And if the answer is yes, thenwe have to figure out how to
address that.
And, you know, so I'm there.
And I think me helping to coachthem through that helps it not
feel so, so difficult.
But most of the time, even whenI got the feedback that I wasn't
(19:23):
being visible, of course ithurt.
It was difficult to hear.
But all I did was tell myself,like, you don't have to do
anything about this if you don'twant to.
But if you care about yourcareer and you know that this is
holding you back, you're goingto have to explore it.
So I took some time to do that.
It didn't do anythingdifferently the next day or the
day after that.
(19:45):
But I started to recognize that,you know, all I have to do is
explore it, think about ways Ican deal with this, have
conversations with people whocan guide me, and then move
forward.
So most of the time, what peoplehear is, you know, they're not
playing big enough, they're nottaking enough risks, they're not
sharing information like theycould be and communicating in a
(20:07):
bigger way, they're not spendingenough time developing their
team.
They're doing a lot of peopleare doing too much low-level
work, honestly.
And I think that was something Idid too, because I was worried
about the optics of looking likea new manager or a director.
And was it was my team doing theright things?
And I think sometimes you canget too much in the
(20:29):
micromanagement trying to helpthe team do all the right things
and look right for everyone, butit causes a lack of trust then
with your team.
And it starts to it hurt me atthat point because what it says
to a leadership team is Suedoesn't know how to delegate
enough.
She's not doing enough to helpher team grow.
And so when I got that feedback,of course, that was not easy to
(20:52):
hear either.
But I knew that I literally hadto change what I was doing and
stop getting into all thedetails.
And so, whatever the feedbackis, I would just encourage
everyone to sit with it, exploreit, and just ask yourself the
question (21:06):
is it possible that this is true?
If it's possible that it's true,then what are some small actions
I can take to move in adifferent direction, to show
something different?
But sometimes it starts with howyou think about yourself and the
thoughts you have about yourselfand shifting those from a
negative, you know,self-limiting belief to
(21:28):
something more positive.
And that takes some time to undothose old thoughts that you've
been holding on to for a longtime.
And I think we all have them, wejust don't always recognize that
they show up on a regular basis.
SPEAKER_00 (21:41):
I agree with you that a lot of these
self-limiting beliefs areunconscious.
And as soon as we become awarethat we have them, then I think
that is the beginning.
That is when we can actuallymake the change.
But I also want to circle backto what you said about uh
explore.
I noticed you used that wordseveral times about exploring
the feedback, especially thenegative feedback, because I
(22:03):
think the human tendency is tocondemn ourselves, to criticize
ourselves, to accept straightaway that yes, that feedback is
true, that is an accuratedescription of me.
But what you said was to sitwith it and ask yourself, is it
possible that this is true?
And that is a very powerfulquestion because that can go
(22:23):
either way.
If it is true, then what does itmean about me?
What does it mean about mycompetence, my potential, my
leadership, and so on?
But then is it also possiblethat it is not true?
That maybe it's referring toonly a specific context, maybe
it's not true of me all thetime, and maybe it's true of me
(22:45):
when I work in a with certainpeople, but not with certain
other people.
So I think that's a very verynuanced kind of question, and
then leaves open differentpossibilities.
I think it's the courage to facethose possibilities that's
important more than the answer.
And then you said to decide tomove forward by taking
(23:08):
microactions.
And I like the micro actionsbecause you know, we don't have
to change everything all atonce.
You you did say that you knownothing might change for two
days, maybe while you arepondering and exploring and
deciding on your next move.
But that gives you time toprocess and time to reflect and
then time to strategize anddecide, okay, I'm going to take
(23:30):
this from this feedback, andthen I'm going to do this new
thing, and I'm going to changethis other thing that I do.
And this is how I'm going toapproach this kind of situation
from now on.
And so it's those, you know,very careful, calibrated
responses that I think theintrovert and the quiet achiever
would be very good at.
SPEAKER_01 (23:51):
Yeah, I'm a big believer in possibilities.
And so to your point, it couldgo one way or it could go the
other, depending on what youdetermine for yourself.
But I am also a big believer inyou have a choice.
And so you have a choice ofwhether to do something with it
or a choice to not do somethingwith it, you know, depending on
the source that it came from.
(24:11):
That might not be somebody thatyou really respect, or they
might have, you know, some kindof situation that they think is
true about you that may not betrue.
And so there's all kinds ofreasons why people might say
something.
It could even be about them,right?
It might be their situation andhas nothing to do with you, but
you just happen to be in thewrong place at the wrong time.
(24:32):
So I like people to just atleast decide for themselves if
it's something that they want todo something with.
And if not, then that's theirchoice to not do something with
it.
And baby steps, small littlesteps can make a huge
difference, especially for anintrovert who's already shy and
(24:52):
already hesitating to putthemselves out there.
They need to do what I call themlike little experiments.
Like, let's try and experimentwith this action and see if it
works.
If it works, great.
Keep doing it.
If it doesn't work, pick adifferent action.
I have hundreds of actions in myin my book because I know it
doesn't, not one thing works foreverybody.
(25:14):
And I tried to lean into whatstrengths might be for people or
uh situations that they might begoing through.
Like, here's what you do ifyou're going to meet with your
manager for a one-on-one.
Here's what you're going to doif you meet with a new manager,
here's what you're going to doif you like to write, uh, if you
like to speak, if you like tovolunteer.
So I gave different categorieswith like a beginner,
(25:37):
intermediate, and advanced view,because I wanted people to have
tons of ideas to pick from.
And once you master thebeginning level, well, then you
can move to intermediate andstart to do more of those.
Because this is a journey.
This isn't one and done.
You have to keep going.
And every time you take the nextposition at the next level,
well, then you also have to havea different level of visibility
(25:58):
to go along with it in order tosucceed.
So I view it as a guidebook thatyou can use and pull out
depending on what you're doing,what you need to do, and to try
new things so that you're alwaysready for the next experiment to
try something.
And I'm big on metrics too,because I feel like metrics help
you, and not maybe traditionalmetrics, but how do I feel about
(26:20):
myself?
How do I feel about the feedbackI got from other people?
Is it important to me?
Is it helping me grow?
Or is it just something someonesaid in passing?
So those are things that Iencourage people to do because
when you start to change, itstarts with you first.
And you have to evaluate do Ifeel different?
(26:41):
I think I do.
I think I'm feeling really goodabout this.
And your confidence grows.
And that's what other peoplesee.
They see the confidence in youand they start to recognize that
there's something different.
They can't put their finger onit yet.
But the more you do itconsistently, then they start to
recognize, wow, she's reallyshowing up in a different way
than we've ever seen her before.
(27:02):
And they encourage it, right?
They want you to keep doing it.
So I think what was reallyhelpful for me is knowing that
people wanted to hear from me.
And I made up a story that saidthat they didn't.
And so that was on me to fixthat story and change that and
recognize that I do havesomething to say.
(27:23):
And so the more I could trythese little experiments, it
allowed me to use that voicethat I had been kind of holding
back on for such a long time.
SPEAKER_00 (27:33):
And how has that voice changed in the context of
being an introvert in acorporate space versus an
introvert in your own business?
SPEAKER_01 (27:43):
Well, as an introvert in my own business,
what I did for the first, oh,probably four or five months was
I built a website.
I, you know, figured out what Iwould put on my business cards.
I tried to figure out what Iwould call my company.
I found all kinds of ways tohide, not even realizing that I
was doing the same thing allover again that I had done in
corporate and keeping myselfsmall.
(28:04):
I had no idea.
So uh one of the things I didinitially was uh somebody had
talked to me about getting onpodcasts and writing blogs.
And so I started writing a blogand I did it every day for 18
months just to put my voice outthere and to start to shift from
being an IT director to being aleadership thought leader and a
(28:24):
coach.
And so that helped me kind ofmove my the way people saw me,
my identity a bit, intosomething different.
And then I started getting onpodcasts.
And when you're on podcasts, youhave to be able to speak about
your story.
And so I got asked a lot, how isit the transition from corporate
to being an entrepreneur andhaving your own business?
And you know, you have to beable to answer those kinds of
(28:47):
questions.
So it gave me confidence that Icould start to share my story.
And initially that was hard.
You know, the vulnerability ofsharing your own story can be
challenging.
And so, writing for me gave methat opportunity to start
putting my voice out there, andthen podcasts gave me the
opportunity to start speakingabout my story.
So those were two things thatwere really helpful in the
(29:09):
beginning, just to start pushingme out of my comfort zone and
trying new things.
SPEAKER_00 (29:16):
I love that idea of trying new things and the little
experiments, and also the wayyou have provided very concrete
examples of what people can dodifferently in your book and
your workbook that's coming out.
So we'll make sure to have thelinks to your books in the show
notes so that people canpurchase those books.
Because I think it's veryimportant not to only have
(29:39):
access to the knowledge of thistheoretically is how we should
be different, but also havethose examples of it.
So in this kind of situation, ifyou are at the performance
review, this is what you do.
If you're having thisconversation with your
supervisor, this is what you do.
If you have a, you know, you'reonboarding a new team member
who's introverted, this is whatyou do.
And I think that's Extremelyhelpful.
(30:01):
So that's wonderful that you'vedone that.
My question then, yeah.
My next question to you is whatis your internal self-talk as
you hold yourself through allthese phases, these seasons of
change and transition?
You know, what are you saying toyourself about yourself?
SPEAKER_01 (30:25):
I mean, it's definitely evolved over time.
You know, initially it wasprobably a lot more of the
limiting beliefs, negative talk,you know, what makes you think
you can start a business?
You don't know enough.
Uh, can you coach these peopleat this level?
Can you coach people in theseindustries that you're not or
haven't ever been a part of?
(30:46):
And I think the more, you know,you talked about repetition
earlier.
I think the repetition ofcoaching as many people as I
could and getting reallycomfortable with that and
recognizing that wow, just justlike I thought I didn't have
enough experience at craftbecause I was in those four
walls of the building, leavingthose four walls actually helped
me see that I knew a heck of alot more than I realized.
(31:09):
And so sometimes you needperspective and you need to get
away from whatever you were inand look back at it and realize
that it was a really greatexperience.
You learned a lot of things, andnow you can start to share those
with other people.
And so the more I started to dothat, I just got more
comfortable.
And so now, even if I have someof those thoughts, I've really
(31:29):
tried to rewire my brain in abig way.
Uh, assume the best of others isone of the things that I'll say.
Somebody might, you know, saysomething, and in the past I
might have reacted to that.
And now I'm just like, you knowwhat?
I think they're having a badday.
I think they're struggling todayand I don't know what's
happening for them, but I'mgoing to assume the best of
them.
And that starts to really helpyou see the world in a different
(31:51):
way.
You just are much calmer, morecomposed.
I call it being neutral, right?
I don't have the highs and lowsthat I used to have.
But now if something's hard, Ihad something the other day, I
can't even remember what it wasnow, but I had something happen
and I was thinking to myself,you can do this.
Come on, you can do that.
You've done it a million times.
You can do this.
Might have been writing aproposal and I was trying to
(32:13):
figure out what to say.
And I think I was juststruggling.
Why is this so hard?
I've done these a million times.
But sometimes you get stuck andyou just have to talk yourself
back to, okay, let's just stepaway from it for a minute, come
back and look at it, and you'regoing to figure it out.
So I'll take those moments andbe kind to myself because I know
that I will figure it out.
(32:34):
Even if I don't know it in thatmoment, I'll, you know, do it in
the next morning or something.
And it has been a reallyinteresting journey of trusting
myself in a much bigger way thanI ever thought I would have in
the past.
And my intuition is superhelpful as a coach because it
helps me with what's the rightquestion when I'm doing
consulting with companies.
(32:55):
What it what do I think theyneed to talk about?
What are the things that I thinkthat they haven't seen yet?
Gaps and opportunities.
When you're in a company, youstart to ignore the things
because they're just normal toyou.
But coming in with a newperspective, you can ask them
questions that are morechallenging.
And I've just learned to trustthat because I've seen it in
action.
(33:16):
When I asked a question, I neverplanned to ask in a company.
And the reaction I got was huge.
And I could tell that they hadnot thought about it.
So it's really just trustingthat experience that you have,
that you know the right thingsto ask.
And it makes you so much moreconfident because I don't really
(33:36):
worry about going into anycompany and any conversation
because I know that I've, youknow, had so much repetition
with coaching and conversationsnow that I just trust that I'll
I'll say the right thing or askthe right thing.
And if I don't, then I'mlearning from it.
You know, sometimes we don'talways say the right thing, and
I'll just learn from it and dosomething different next time.
SPEAKER_00 (33:58):
I like that because that is quite different from
what we talked about at thestart about being prepared.
There is so much we can do toprepare, but there's also that
element of mystery anduncertainty every time we face a
new client or walk into asituation we haven't been in
before.
And then what you said aboutusing intuition in your coaching
(34:20):
and trusting that you know theright thing to ask because of
the years of experience youhave, but also because of the
experience of coaching otherpeople and listening and being
curious and paying attention toall the details.
And over time you create thisbank of knowledge and you don't
know when it comes in useful,but it's all in there.
(34:42):
And so you have access to thatat any time.
And I think having that trustthat the right words will come
to you at the right time, theright question will pop up,
something is going to help youalong with that process.
So you don't have to beconstantly bracing and prepare
100% and worry that you knowthis is something you missed on
(35:04):
because it will somehow resolveitself, or you will be equal to
the task of resolving that.
I think that's really importantto emphasize.
So thank you for pointing thatout.
Sure.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So this one, what is the onething you want introverts and
quiet achievers to remember orto take away from our
(35:24):
conversation today?
SPEAKER_01 (35:27):
I would love you to think about what you want people
to say about you.
So I call it the narrative thatpeople have about you.
And that starts with what we sayabout ourselves.
So, you know, for me, I I wentthrough a process called a an I
call it the I am process or aleadership visioning exercise.
And it was creating who I wantedto be before I was that person.
(35:51):
So for me, my sentence was, I ama bold, visible leader who
transforms organizations.
And when I thought about that, Ineeded to start to become that
person and start to act thatway.
It also meant that I shared moreinformation.
I had conversations where Ishared things that my team was
doing or that I was doing in away that's just sharing facts
(36:15):
and information.
And so I call it weavinginformation into conversations.
So I would ask everybody tostart to think about who you
want to be and let's be thatperson now.
Let's not wait for six months ora year or three years to be that
person.
You can start today.
And when I used that sentence tohelp me get there, it meant I
(36:36):
couldn't sit in the back of theroom anymore.
It meant I couldn't hide behindother people.
I had to use my voice and I hadto speak up.
And so I think everybody hasthis opportunity to just shift
the way they think aboutthemselves and then they can
start to take actions and startto share more.
So think about ways to pick twoor three things that you want
(36:57):
people to know about you or yourteam or what you're doing and
find ways to work those intoconversations so that people can
hear you because everyinteraction is an opportunity
for visibility.
And so don't waste them.
Take advantage of those and tryto find things that you want to
talk about, your strengths, yourprojects, whatever it is you
want to share.
People are willing to listen.
(37:18):
And that starts to change theperception about you.
And what happens when you tellstories about yourself?
They take those stories and theyrepeat them to other people
about you.
So you have to start thinkingmaybe a little more
strategically than you havealready.
Just think strategically aboutwhat you want people to know
about you and start workingthose things into conversations
(37:39):
and pay attention for otherpeople to repeat them back to
you.
It's kind of fascinating whenthat happens.
SPEAKER_00 (37:46):
Yes.
It's quite incredible to hearsomeone repeat back to you the
thing that you dropped a coupleof months ago and to realize
that actually landed.
Somebody actually paidattention.
Yes.
Yes, that's very powerful.
I like how you've talked aboutthe strategic perspective and
but also the importance oftaking responsibility for the
narrative that other people areconstructing of us and knowing
(38:09):
that we get to shape thatnarrative.
It's our story.
We get to tell it withintegrity, but we also get to
employ creativity, humor,authenticity, all the good
things, and use all our quietstrengths in making that
narrative.
And also the importance ofembodying, becoming that person
that does those things, that hasthose traits.
(38:30):
I think those two parts arereally complementary, but also
very important.
And we can't have one withoutthe other.
So what is the best way forpeople to reach you, Susan?
SPEAKER_01 (38:40):
Uh, you can find me on LinkedIn.
I'm out there all the time.
And you can find me on mywebsite, Susanmbarber.com.
Would love to hear from any ofyou and just uh share any ideas
if I can help in any way, behappy to.
I have a ton of resources on mywebsite, and uh I have a great
guide for introverts.
(39:02):
So I think it could be reallyhelpful for you.
The introvert's guide tovisibility and influence in the
workplace has been really,really helpful for a lot of
people to start to build a plan.
You know, we talked about comingup with some actions, build a
little plan for yourself of howyou're gonna do this in a bigger
way.
So yeah, you can uh find it onmy website and download it.
(39:22):
And uh I'd love to have youshare some feedback with me
about what you think.
And of course, the books havetons of ideas as well.
SPEAKER_00 (39:29):
Fantastic.
We'll make sure to include thelinks, the website, everything
in the show notes for ourlisteners.
So thank you so much, Susan, forsharing your time and your
wisdom with us today.
Thanks for having me.
It was a great time.
If you enjoyed today's episode,be sure to leave a five-star
rating and review to help theQuiet Warrior Podcast reach more
(39:50):
introverts and quiet achieversaround the world.
And for the latest resources onhow to thrive as an introvert,
make sure you are subscribed tothe Visible Introvert newsletter
at serenalo.com.au.
See you on the next episode.
I'm so grateful that you're heretoday.
If you found this contentvaluable, please share it on
(40:11):
your social media channels andsubscribe to the show on your
favorite listening platform.
Together we can help moreintroverts thrive.
To receive more upliftingcontent like this, connect with
me on Instagram at Serenalo,Quiet Warrior Coach.
Thank you for sharing your timeand your energy with me.
See you on the next episode.
Hi, I'm Serena Lowe.
If you're used to hearing thatintroverts are shy, anxious,
antisocial, and lack goodcommunication and leadership
skills, then this podcast is foryou.
You're about to fall in lovewith a calm, introspective, and
profound person that you are.
Discover what's fun, unique, andpowerful about being an
(00:21):
introvert and how to make theelegant transition from quiet
achiever to quiet warrior inyour life and work, anytime you
want, in more ways than youimagined possible.
Welcome.
Our guest today is Susan Barber.
Susan Barber is this leadingvisibility coach who helps
(00:42):
quiet, high-achieving corporateleaders step into the spotlight
and become visible, valued, andinfluential in their careers.
With over 25 years of experiencein leadership roles at Kraft
Heinz, spanning sales, supplychain, food service, and IT,
Susan has a deep understandingof the challenges corporate
(01:03):
leaders face.
She's also the author of TheVisibility Factor and the
upcoming Your Journey toVisibility Workbook, both of
which offer powerful tools forleaders looking to take charge
of their careers and confidentlypursue new opportunities.
As the host of the VisibilityFactor podcast, Susan is
(01:25):
passionate about empoweringprofessionals to grow their
influence and unlock their fullpotential.
Welcome Susan to the QuietWarrior Podcast.
Thank you for having me.
I'm excited to have thisconversation with you.
Susan, do you consider yourselfan introvert?
SPEAKER_01 (01:43):
You know, I think I've evolved a little bit from
the full introvert I was when Iwas in corporate.
I think sometimes I'm more of anambervert, which is I can be
extroverted when I need to, butmy my go-to is still being an
introvert.
I'd still love to stay home andread a book any day.
But you know, you have to putyourself out there if you're
(02:05):
trying to have people read yourbook or to understand what
you're doing in business.
So it's been a journey to getthere.
And I didn't start out rightaway making videos or anything
like that.
I took some time to figure outhow to do that and get
comfortable with it.
But yeah, it's not my go-to toput myself out there out on a
regular basis, but I'm gettingused to it.
SPEAKER_00 (02:29):
Do you think that has changed over the years for
you?
SPEAKER_01 (02:34):
I think so.
You know, I especially when Ifirst started my business, I was
trying to figure it all out,right?
And so you have a lot of doubtand imposter syndrome happening
there.
Like, should I even do this?
Do I know enough to start abusiness?
And I had figured out how to bemore visible in corporate before
I left.
But then coming into this world,it's like you're starting all
over again.
(02:55):
And, you know, do I have enoughcoaching hours to say I'm a good
coach?
And so you start to have allthese doubts.
And I think it it has gotteneasier, especially since I put
the book out.
I'm talking a lot more topeople, I'm presenting more.
And once I started the podcast,you know, I think that really
helped me find my voice in abigger way.
And being able to interviewother people and talk about what
(03:16):
I'm doing, you just get morecomfortable with it because you
know, you know it's important todo this so that people can learn
about you and what you do andhow you can help them.
SPEAKER_00 (03:25):
I agree with you.
A lot of it is down to practiceand repetition and doing it
enough times that you startfeeling comfortable.
And some of that impostersyndrome you're referring to
goes away.
But do you also think thatimposter syndrome could be a
good thing?
Could actually be an advantage.
SPEAKER_01 (03:45):
Well, I think it doesn't make you overly boastful
or anything like that.
It keeps you a little humble.
And I think for me, justlearning how imposter syndrome
shows up when you know you'rebeing your brain is trying to
help you and trying to keep yousafe.
And all of those things for mewere unexpected.
(04:06):
I wasn't understanding thatthat's what that meant.
And I think when I wasstruggling with some of the
doubts I had in corporate, I wasin IT for a number of years, but
without the education to reallysupport that, it felt like I
didn't fit in and I wasn't sureif I had a voice that mattered.
And so the more I started torecognize that what I am doing
(04:28):
is important and I have a lot toadd to the conversation just as
much as anyone else because ofmy business background.
So learning about what makes youunique and what you bring to the
party, I think helps people pushthat imposter syndrome into the
background because you start tovalue what you have to offer and
you start to trust yourself andtrust your intuition and be more
(04:50):
open to the fact that nobody isperfect, even though I felt like
I was for a long time.
I felt like I had to be.
And once I let that go too, Ifeel like it helped me in so
many ways to be able to stepinto who I was really supposed
to be and be the leader that Iknew I could be.
But I just had a lot of fear atthe beginning and I had to work
(05:11):
through that.
SPEAKER_00 (05:14):
I like how you said do I have a voice that matters?
I think that is probably anunconscious or you know, deeply
hidden fear that a lot ofintroverts and quiet achievers
have.
And it's not to do with nothaving anything valuable to say,
but worrying that they will beperceived in a certain way
(05:39):
because of maybe the way theyexpress themselves, maybe
because of their quietness,maybe because the louder voices
tend to dominate the room.
So, how does one become visibleas an introvert, whether it's in
corporate, whether it's startingyour own business?
What has been helpful for you tobecome more visible?
SPEAKER_01 (06:01):
I started out at in the beginning just observing
other people and what they weredoing.
And I thought, you know, I don'twant to be someone who brags.
So how can I do this in a waythat feels comfortable for me?
And when I realized I sat in aroom with like 40 of my peers
and I thought, I'm just gonnawatch and see what they do.
And some of them just offered tohelp.
(06:22):
Some of them said, Oh, you know,my team member is doing that, I
can help with that, or have themhelp with that.
And I thought, okay, all they'redoing is sharing information and
offering to help.
Well, that's not so hard.
Why can't I do that?
So once I started to recognizethat I think I was making being
visible into this big mountainto climb, and it really is small
(06:45):
actions that you start to takeevery day.
So for me, what I did in thebeginning was I created a list
of questions that I thoughtmight come in, come up in a
meeting that I could use.
Or I thought if somebodycomments on something, maybe I
can add to their comment.
Put myself on the agenda topresent something, sit at the
(07:05):
table with our IT executiveteam.
I did very visible things toshow that I was going to be
different.
And it took me a little bit oftime to get comfortable with
that.
But once I realized that I wasputting myself in a panic of not
knowing what question to ask,and that if I prepared, I didn't
have that panic, it felt so muchbetter.
(07:26):
And I agree with you about thereason that we may not speak up
is because we're worried aboutbeing criticized or judged, or
that we say something in thewrong way.
And, you know, especially whenyou have imposter syndrome,
everybody else in the roomsounds brilliant and you're so
worried about how you're goingto show up that you just your
head is like in panic mode, orwhat is that, like, you know,
(07:49):
it's kind of frozen and it can'tthink about anything.
And so you have to figure out away to prepare.
So that doesn't happen then.
You don't worry about it asmuch.
You have those little questionsright there ready to go, and you
just pick one and use it.
SPEAKER_00 (08:03):
I like how you prepare because I think that's
one of the great strengths ofbeing introverted and being a
quiet achiever, is that while wedon't do well at winging it, we
are very good when we areprepared.
So there are so many, you know,strategies, and you offered some
ways of doing that, offeringhelp, um, coming in with a list
of questions, putting yourselfon the agenda to present.
(08:25):
And I love that you'vecontrasted preparation over
panic because yes, I can relateto that panic mode where the
mind goes blank, you freeze,everything you knew suddenly is
not there, not accessible atall.
And then you risk looking likeyou're completely unprepared.
And it's not that you are, it'sjust that you panicked.
(08:47):
So was there a time when youwere the one who was hiding at
the back of the room because youhave also risen to executive
level.
How did that transition happenfor you?
SPEAKER_01 (09:02):
Well, I was sitting in the back of the room and
didn't realize I wasn't beingvisible.
I got some feedback from amentor of mine who said, you
know, you're not being veryvisible, you're sitting in the
back of the room, you're notparticipating, you're not adding
any value.
Why do you even come to themeeting?
And these were meetings that wehad basically all of my peers
and all of our senior managementin once a month.
(09:24):
And so, you know, when you walkinto this room, there's a big
table and all of the executiveteam is sitting there.
So, in my head, I'm not highenough on the org chart to sit
there.
They should sit there, right?
They're the people who are thesenior leaders.
And so I sat in the back.
And but the problem, what Ididn't realize is, you know,
(09:44):
before this feedback, I was atop talent.
I was hoping to get the nextpromotion.
I was doing all the rightthings.
So to hear that feedback wasvery shocking for me that I
hadn't realized it on my own.
I think I was a littleembarrassed that I hadn't
figured that out for myself.
But then I thought, what do Ido?
How do I, how do I resolve thisissue?
(10:07):
And so once I talked to anothermentor of mine, a business
mentor, who helped meunderstand, so you have a lot to
offer.
You were hired for a reason.
You have good ideas.
And if you're not sharing whatyou know with the leadership
team, then they might make a baddecision because you haven't
shared what you know.
And then the second thing shetold me, which I think was even
(10:29):
more impactful, is that I wasnot only holding myself back,
but I was holding my team backbecause I wasn't sharing what
they were doing and they weren'tin the room with me all the
time.
So it was really up to me to dothat.
So of course I never wanted tohurt them in any way.
It's one thing to make adecision for yourself.
It's another when you're hurtinga group.
And you know, groups that arenot seen and visible can be
(10:51):
eliminated very quickly in acompany.
So you have to be mindful ofthat as a leader of a group.
SPEAKER_00 (11:00):
So I heard two things there that make a lot of
difference, I think, for peoplewho are listening.
Number one, you were hired for areason.
And sometimes we forget that.
We we forget to look atourselves or to look at things
from the other person'sperspective, to look at the
CEO's perspective, for instance,in the whole scheme of things,
you know, for the good of thiscompany, what needs to be done,
(11:22):
who needs to be where, who needsto be doing what kind of role,
and what part do I play in thatwhole system, and how am I
fulfilling that?
So if I was hired for thisparticular reason, how am I
living up to that?
And so when it when you startlooking at it that way, I think
it reinforces and maybe itcounters that imposter syndrome.
(11:47):
I belong here.
I was hired for a reason.
So let me make sure I live up tothat.
And the second thing you saidwas that because you are also a
team leader, you are nowconcerned that in hiding and
playing small, you are alsoholding back your team.
So your reticence is somethingthat affects someone else's
(12:09):
professional well-being andsuccess.
Do you think that becauseintroverted introverted people
care so much about thewell-being of others, maybe
sometimes they might care forsomeone else much more than they
care for their own agenda, thatit then helps them to perhaps be
(12:30):
more empowered to be a littlebraver about becoming visible
because it's not just aboutthemselves now.
SPEAKER_01 (12:36):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
You know, I think it was thatmoment of I have to do this and
I have to do somethingdifferently because my team
needs to know how to do thistoo, right?
It's one thing to kind of holdyourself back, but when I
realized I need to figure thisout and I need to teach them,
and so I did some bold things.
(12:57):
I sat at that executive table, Igot there before everybody else
did, so that maybe one of themdidn't get a seat because I was
there.
But I thought it was importantthat I demonstrate a bold move.
I had to start to show updifferently.
And so I had my team startpresenting too, which they were
nervous to do in the beginning,but I said, I'm gonna be here
(13:19):
with you.
And I wanted them to recognizethat they had a lot of value to
provide.
And doing that just reallychanged the game for me and for
them.
So I think everybody listening,you know, think of something
that might be a little out ofyour comfort zone to try, but
demonstrates this bold side ofyou that people aren't
expecting, right?
(13:40):
Because they expected me to sitin the back of the room.
Now I'm sitting at the table.
What is going on?
Why is she up here?
So it was a really good moment.
I just remember the look ontheir faces to this day of what
is she doing at this table?
And, you know, it was fine.
They didn't kick me out, theydidn't ask me to move.
So sometimes we have to be alittle brave and we just have to
(14:02):
try something that's a littleout of character for us, a
little out of our comfort zone,and sometimes just prove to
ourselves, right?
That we have something that'simportant and that matters to to
do in the world.
And we need to start withsomething small.
SPEAKER_00 (14:18):
How did you know that you could get away with
that?
Did you have to speak to someoneor ask permission, or did you
just do it?
SPEAKER_01 (14:25):
I just did it.
I thought, you know, if they'regonna kick me out, they'll say
something.
I thought, you know, I was justgonna say, oh yeah, I totally
forgot you guys need to sithere.
Yeah, I just would have made ajoke or something.
But nobody did.
And so every meeting after that,I continued to sit there.
So, you know, I could have justdone it one time and they would
think, oh, that's just a one-offthing that she did.
(14:46):
But continuing to do that, I wasreally trying to kind of put a
line in the sand that I belonghere and I'm not going to move.
So it was a really coolexperiment to do, honestly, and
to see that it worked out sowell, not only for me, but for
my team.
And pretty soon nobody evenquestioned it.
Because the other thing that itdoes is it forces you to speak.
(15:07):
If you're at the table, so tospeak, right?
You have to speak up.
And so it forced me toparticipate in conversations.
It forced me to make a commentand share something that I might
not have ordinarily done.
So it really did put my voicefront and center in a way that,
you know, I couldn't have evenexpected when I thought about
doing it.
(15:29):
And what changed for you andyour team because of this?
You know, it was reallyinteresting because we got
involved in some things thatreally helped to demonstrate the
impact that we were making.
We were a newer group, I'll say,uh, in terms of what we were
doing.
The group existed before, butthe things that we wanted to do
to demonstrate cost savings andsimplification and which were
(15:51):
some of our big goals, uh, wefound ways to do that that no
one had ever considered doing.
And so it gave us a really greatplatform to talk about that at
this at this level and start tosay, here's some of the things
we're doing.
We're building relationshipswith our vendors, and they are
thrilled to work with us now,right?
They may not have been asthrilled to work with us in the
(16:12):
past.
And we've created a programcalled, I think we called it
best team.
Like everybody wanted to be partof the best team, internally and
externally.
And we saved hundreds ofthousands of dollars for the
company.
So it's really hard to say thatyour your group doesn't matter
now because we have demonstratedimpact galore compared to maybe
(16:34):
what previous groups had done.
So to me, those were big wins.
And I think to prove, you know,to my team and myself that we
could do it, but also to showother people that we matter.
We are important and we need tobe at the table.
SPEAKER_00 (16:47):
I think that's the coolest leadership story I've
ever heard.
Aw, thanks.
SPEAKER_01 (16:53):
Yeah, it was a lot of fun to do that.
Yeah, there's some great thingsI did in that role that I wish I
could, you know, take in so manyplaces.
There were just some things thatwe did like 360 feedback with
our vendors, and we did a lot ofdifferent things that nobody
expected a big company to do or,you know, to spend time doing.
But we thought it was soimportant to show our vendors
(17:16):
that we cared because wepartnered with them really
closely and we wanted them tofeel that.
And we had little scorecardsthat we did every month and we
would show them where theyranked.
And it was a lot of good stuffthat came out of that experience
and just sitting, havingtop-to-top meetings with vendors
and stuff just really gave meinside view of what it's like to
(17:36):
be an executive at that leveland how you have to think about
things, and that you can ask formore than you realize.
Uh, you just have to be able tohave the leverage to do it.
SPEAKER_00 (17:48):
You've brought out a very important point because you
talked about the 360 feedback.
And with the feedback loop, Iremember at the beginning you
said it was because of amentor's feedback that you
deliberately became morevisible.
And then now you actively seekfeedback from all the people you
work with.
And so that you can understandfrom their perspective, you
(18:10):
know, what's of concern to themand the bigger picture and all
that.
How do you encourage what wouldyou encourage people to do in
response to negative feedbackthat they receive?
SPEAKER_01 (18:22):
Yeah, I'm an I'm a huge person to encourage
feedback for other peoplebecause I think you don't always
know how you how you'reperceived.
And for a lot of people that Icoach, they don't know.
And so I'll encourage them toask for feedback through a
survey or through conversation.
I always feel like it's a goodway to build relationships.
(18:42):
So if they hear something, I'lltell them, let's talk about what
you heard, good and bad.
And most of the time they hear alot of good things that they
never expected and they're sosurprised.
But if they encounter somethingthat is not as positive, I'll
say, okay, let's just exploreit, right?
We have to understand is itsomething that is really crucial
(19:03):
that could hold you back, thatcould keep you from progressing
in the organization?
And if the answer is yes, thenwe have to figure out how to
address that.
And, you know, so I'm there.
And I think me helping to coachthem through that helps it not
feel so, so difficult.
But most of the time, even whenI got the feedback that I wasn't
(19:23):
being visible, of course ithurt.
It was difficult to hear.
But all I did was tell myself,like, you don't have to do
anything about this if you don'twant to.
But if you care about yourcareer and you know that this is
holding you back, you're goingto have to explore it.
So I took some time to do that.
It didn't do anythingdifferently the next day or the
day after that.
(19:45):
But I started to recognize that,you know, all I have to do is
explore it, think about ways Ican deal with this, have
conversations with people whocan guide me, and then move
forward.
So most of the time, what peoplehear is, you know, they're not
playing big enough, they're nottaking enough risks, they're not
sharing information like theycould be and communicating in a
(20:07):
bigger way, they're not spendingenough time developing their
team.
They're doing a lot of peopleare doing too much low-level
work, honestly.
And I think that was something Idid too, because I was worried
about the optics of looking likea new manager or a director.
And was it was my team doing theright things?
And I think sometimes you canget too much in the
(20:29):
micromanagement trying to helpthe team do all the right things
and look right for everyone, butit causes a lack of trust then
with your team.
And it starts to it hurt me atthat point because what it says
to a leadership team is Suedoesn't know how to delegate
enough.
She's not doing enough to helpher team grow.
And so when I got that feedback,of course, that was not easy to
(20:52):
hear either.
But I knew that I literally hadto change what I was doing and
stop getting into all thedetails.
And so, whatever the feedbackis, I would just encourage
everyone to sit with it, exploreit, and just ask yourself the
question (21:06):
is it possible that this is true?
If it's possible that it's true,then what are some small actions
I can take to move in adifferent direction, to show
something different?
But sometimes it starts with howyou think about yourself and the
thoughts you have about yourselfand shifting those from a
negative, you know,self-limiting belief to
(21:28):
something more positive.
And that takes some time to undothose old thoughts that you've
been holding on to for a longtime.
And I think we all have them, wejust don't always recognize that
they show up on a regular basis.
SPEAKER_00 (21:41):
I agree with you that a lot of these
self-limiting beliefs areunconscious.
And as soon as we become awarethat we have them, then I think
that is the beginning.
That is when we can actuallymake the change.
But I also want to circle backto what you said about uh
explore.
I noticed you used that wordseveral times about exploring
the feedback, especially thenegative feedback, because I
(22:03):
think the human tendency is tocondemn ourselves, to criticize
ourselves, to accept straightaway that yes, that feedback is
true, that is an accuratedescription of me.
But what you said was to sitwith it and ask yourself, is it
possible that this is true?
And that is a very powerfulquestion because that can go
(22:23):
either way.
If it is true, then what does itmean about me?
What does it mean about mycompetence, my potential, my
leadership, and so on?
But then is it also possiblethat it is not true?
That maybe it's referring toonly a specific context, maybe
it's not true of me all thetime, and maybe it's true of me
(22:45):
when I work in a with certainpeople, but not with certain
other people.
So I think that's a very verynuanced kind of question, and
then leaves open differentpossibilities.
I think it's the courage to facethose possibilities that's
important more than the answer.
And then you said to decide tomove forward by taking
(23:08):
microactions.
And I like the micro actionsbecause you know, we don't have
to change everything all atonce.
You you did say that you knownothing might change for two
days, maybe while you arepondering and exploring and
deciding on your next move.
But that gives you time toprocess and time to reflect and
then time to strategize anddecide, okay, I'm going to take
(23:30):
this from this feedback, andthen I'm going to do this new
thing, and I'm going to changethis other thing that I do.
And this is how I'm going toapproach this kind of situation
from now on.
And so it's those, you know,very careful, calibrated
responses that I think theintrovert and the quiet achiever
would be very good at.
SPEAKER_01 (23:51):
Yeah, I'm a big believer in possibilities.
And so to your point, it couldgo one way or it could go the
other, depending on what youdetermine for yourself.
But I am also a big believer inyou have a choice.
And so you have a choice ofwhether to do something with it
or a choice to not do somethingwith it, you know, depending on
the source that it came from.
(24:11):
That might not be somebody thatyou really respect, or they
might have, you know, some kindof situation that they think is
true about you that may not betrue.
And so there's all kinds ofreasons why people might say
something.
It could even be about them,right?
It might be their situation andhas nothing to do with you, but
you just happen to be in thewrong place at the wrong time.
(24:32):
So I like people to just atleast decide for themselves if
it's something that they want todo something with.
And if not, then that's theirchoice to not do something with
it.
And baby steps, small littlesteps can make a huge
difference, especially for anintrovert who's already shy and
(24:52):
already hesitating to putthemselves out there.
They need to do what I call themlike little experiments.
Like, let's try and experimentwith this action and see if it
works.
If it works, great.
Keep doing it.
If it doesn't work, pick adifferent action.
I have hundreds of actions in myin my book because I know it
doesn't, not one thing works foreverybody.
(25:14):
And I tried to lean into whatstrengths might be for people or
uh situations that they might begoing through.
Like, here's what you do ifyou're going to meet with your
manager for a one-on-one.
Here's what you're going to doif you meet with a new manager,
here's what you're going to doif you like to write, uh, if you
like to speak, if you like tovolunteer.
So I gave different categorieswith like a beginner,
(25:37):
intermediate, and advanced view,because I wanted people to have
tons of ideas to pick from.
And once you master thebeginning level, well, then you
can move to intermediate andstart to do more of those.
Because this is a journey.
This isn't one and done.
You have to keep going.
And every time you take the nextposition at the next level,
well, then you also have to havea different level of visibility
(25:58):
to go along with it in order tosucceed.
So I view it as a guidebook thatyou can use and pull out
depending on what you're doing,what you need to do, and to try
new things so that you're alwaysready for the next experiment to
try something.
And I'm big on metrics too,because I feel like metrics help
you, and not maybe traditionalmetrics, but how do I feel about
(26:20):
myself?
How do I feel about the feedbackI got from other people?
Is it important to me?
Is it helping me grow?
Or is it just something someonesaid in passing?
So those are things that Iencourage people to do because
when you start to change, itstarts with you first.
And you have to evaluate do Ifeel different?
(26:41):
I think I do.
I think I'm feeling really goodabout this.
And your confidence grows.
And that's what other peoplesee.
They see the confidence in youand they start to recognize that
there's something different.
They can't put their finger onit yet.
But the more you do itconsistently, then they start to
recognize, wow, she's reallyshowing up in a different way
than we've ever seen her before.
(27:02):
And they encourage it, right?
They want you to keep doing it.
So I think what was reallyhelpful for me is knowing that
people wanted to hear from me.
And I made up a story that saidthat they didn't.
And so that was on me to fixthat story and change that and
recognize that I do havesomething to say.
(27:23):
And so the more I could trythese little experiments, it
allowed me to use that voicethat I had been kind of holding
back on for such a long time.
SPEAKER_00 (27:33):
And how has that voice changed in the context of
being an introvert in acorporate space versus an
introvert in your own business?
SPEAKER_01 (27:43):
Well, as an introvert in my own business,
what I did for the first, oh,probably four or five months was
I built a website.
I, you know, figured out what Iwould put on my business cards.
I tried to figure out what Iwould call my company.
I found all kinds of ways tohide, not even realizing that I
was doing the same thing allover again that I had done in
corporate and keeping myselfsmall.
(28:04):
I had no idea.
So uh one of the things I didinitially was uh somebody had
talked to me about getting onpodcasts and writing blogs.
And so I started writing a blogand I did it every day for 18
months just to put my voice outthere and to start to shift from
being an IT director to being aleadership thought leader and a
(28:24):
coach.
And so that helped me kind ofmove my the way people saw me,
my identity a bit, intosomething different.
And then I started getting onpodcasts.
And when you're on podcasts, youhave to be able to speak about
your story.
And so I got asked a lot, how isit the transition from corporate
to being an entrepreneur andhaving your own business?
And you know, you have to beable to answer those kinds of
(28:47):
questions.
So it gave me confidence that Icould start to share my story.
And initially that was hard.
You know, the vulnerability ofsharing your own story can be
challenging.
And so, writing for me gave methat opportunity to start
putting my voice out there, andthen podcasts gave me the
opportunity to start speakingabout my story.
So those were two things thatwere really helpful in the
(29:09):
beginning, just to start pushingme out of my comfort zone and
trying new things.
SPEAKER_00 (29:16):
I love that idea of trying new things and the little
experiments, and also the wayyou have provided very concrete
examples of what people can dodifferently in your book and
your workbook that's coming out.
So we'll make sure to have thelinks to your books in the show
notes so that people canpurchase those books.
Because I think it's veryimportant not to only have
(29:39):
access to the knowledge of thistheoretically is how we should
be different, but also havethose examples of it.
So in this kind of situation, ifyou are at the performance
review, this is what you do.
If you're having thisconversation with your
supervisor, this is what you do.
If you have a, you know, you'reonboarding a new team member
who's introverted, this is whatyou do.
And I think that's Extremelyhelpful.
(30:01):
So that's wonderful that you'vedone that.
My question then, yeah.
My next question to you is whatis your internal self-talk as
you hold yourself through allthese phases, these seasons of
change and transition?
You know, what are you saying toyourself about yourself?
SPEAKER_01 (30:25):
I mean, it's definitely evolved over time.
You know, initially it wasprobably a lot more of the
limiting beliefs, negative talk,you know, what makes you think
you can start a business?
You don't know enough.
Uh, can you coach these peopleat this level?
Can you coach people in theseindustries that you're not or
haven't ever been a part of?
(30:46):
And I think the more, you know,you talked about repetition
earlier.
I think the repetition ofcoaching as many people as I
could and getting reallycomfortable with that and
recognizing that wow, just justlike I thought I didn't have
enough experience at craftbecause I was in those four
walls of the building, leavingthose four walls actually helped
me see that I knew a heck of alot more than I realized.
(31:09):
And so sometimes you needperspective and you need to get
away from whatever you were inand look back at it and realize
that it was a really greatexperience.
You learned a lot of things, andnow you can start to share those
with other people.
And so the more I started to dothat, I just got more
comfortable.
And so now, even if I have someof those thoughts, I've really
(31:29):
tried to rewire my brain in abig way.
Uh, assume the best of others isone of the things that I'll say.
Somebody might, you know, saysomething, and in the past I
might have reacted to that.
And now I'm just like, you knowwhat?
I think they're having a badday.
I think they're struggling todayand I don't know what's
happening for them, but I'mgoing to assume the best of
them.
And that starts to really helpyou see the world in a different
(31:51):
way.
You just are much calmer, morecomposed.
I call it being neutral, right?
I don't have the highs and lowsthat I used to have.
But now if something's hard, Ihad something the other day, I
can't even remember what it wasnow, but I had something happen
and I was thinking to myself,you can do this.
Come on, you can do that.
You've done it a million times.
You can do this.
Might have been writing aproposal and I was trying to
(32:13):
figure out what to say.
And I think I was juststruggling.
Why is this so hard?
I've done these a million times.
But sometimes you get stuck andyou just have to talk yourself
back to, okay, let's just stepaway from it for a minute, come
back and look at it, and you'regoing to figure it out.
So I'll take those moments andbe kind to myself because I know
that I will figure it out.
(32:34):
Even if I don't know it in thatmoment, I'll, you know, do it in
the next morning or something.
And it has been a reallyinteresting journey of trusting
myself in a much bigger way thanI ever thought I would have in
the past.
And my intuition is superhelpful as a coach because it
helps me with what's the rightquestion when I'm doing
consulting with companies.
(32:55):
What it what do I think theyneed to talk about?
What are the things that I thinkthat they haven't seen yet?
Gaps and opportunities.
When you're in a company, youstart to ignore the things
because they're just normal toyou.
But coming in with a newperspective, you can ask them
questions that are morechallenging.
And I've just learned to trustthat because I've seen it in
action.
(33:16):
When I asked a question, I neverplanned to ask in a company.
And the reaction I got was huge.
And I could tell that they hadnot thought about it.
So it's really just trustingthat experience that you have,
that you know the right thingsto ask.
And it makes you so much moreconfident because I don't really
(33:36):
worry about going into anycompany and any conversation
because I know that I've, youknow, had so much repetition
with coaching and conversationsnow that I just trust that I'll
I'll say the right thing or askthe right thing.
And if I don't, then I'mlearning from it.
You know, sometimes we don'talways say the right thing, and
I'll just learn from it and dosomething different next time.
SPEAKER_00 (33:58):
I like that because that is quite different from
what we talked about at thestart about being prepared.
There is so much we can do toprepare, but there's also that
element of mystery anduncertainty every time we face a
new client or walk into asituation we haven't been in
before.
And then what you said aboutusing intuition in your coaching
(34:20):
and trusting that you know theright thing to ask because of
the years of experience youhave, but also because of the
experience of coaching otherpeople and listening and being
curious and paying attention toall the details.
And over time you create thisbank of knowledge and you don't
know when it comes in useful,but it's all in there.
(34:42):
And so you have access to thatat any time.
And I think having that trustthat the right words will come
to you at the right time, theright question will pop up,
something is going to help youalong with that process.
So you don't have to beconstantly bracing and prepare
100% and worry that you knowthis is something you missed on
(35:04):
because it will somehow resolveitself, or you will be equal to
the task of resolving that.
I think that's really importantto emphasize.
So thank you for pointing thatout.
Sure.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So this one, what is the onething you want introverts and
quiet achievers to remember orto take away from our
(35:24):
conversation today?
SPEAKER_01 (35:27):
I would love you to think about what you want people
to say about you.
So I call it the narrative thatpeople have about you.
And that starts with what we sayabout ourselves.
So, you know, for me, I I wentthrough a process called a an I
call it the I am process or aleadership visioning exercise.
And it was creating who I wantedto be before I was that person.
(35:51):
So for me, my sentence was, I ama bold, visible leader who
transforms organizations.
And when I thought about that, Ineeded to start to become that
person and start to act thatway.
It also meant that I shared moreinformation.
I had conversations where Ishared things that my team was
doing or that I was doing in away that's just sharing facts
(36:15):
and information.
And so I call it weavinginformation into conversations.
So I would ask everybody tostart to think about who you
want to be and let's be thatperson now.
Let's not wait for six months ora year or three years to be that
person.
You can start today.
And when I used that sentence tohelp me get there, it meant I
(36:36):
couldn't sit in the back of theroom anymore.
It meant I couldn't hide behindother people.
I had to use my voice and I hadto speak up.
And so I think everybody hasthis opportunity to just shift
the way they think aboutthemselves and then they can
start to take actions and startto share more.
So think about ways to pick twoor three things that you want
(36:57):
people to know about you or yourteam or what you're doing and
find ways to work those intoconversations so that people can
hear you because everyinteraction is an opportunity
for visibility.
And so don't waste them.
Take advantage of those and tryto find things that you want to
talk about, your strengths, yourprojects, whatever it is you
want to share.
People are willing to listen.
(37:18):
And that starts to change theperception about you.
And what happens when you tellstories about yourself?
They take those stories and theyrepeat them to other people
about you.
So you have to start thinkingmaybe a little more
strategically than you havealready.
Just think strategically aboutwhat you want people to know
about you and start workingthose things into conversations
(37:39):
and pay attention for otherpeople to repeat them back to
you.
It's kind of fascinating whenthat happens.
SPEAKER_00 (37:46):
Yes.
It's quite incredible to hearsomeone repeat back to you the
thing that you dropped a coupleof months ago and to realize
that actually landed.
Somebody actually paidattention.
Yes.
Yes, that's very powerful.
I like how you've talked aboutthe strategic perspective and
but also the importance oftaking responsibility for the
narrative that other people areconstructing of us and knowing
(38:09):
that we get to shape thatnarrative.
It's our story.
We get to tell it withintegrity, but we also get to
employ creativity, humor,authenticity, all the good
things, and use all our quietstrengths in making that
narrative.
And also the importance ofembodying, becoming that person
that does those things, that hasthose traits.
(38:30):
I think those two parts arereally complementary, but also
very important.
And we can't have one withoutthe other.
So what is the best way forpeople to reach you, Susan?
SPEAKER_01 (38:40):
Uh, you can find me on LinkedIn.
I'm out there all the time.
And you can find me on mywebsite, Susanmbarber.com.
Would love to hear from any ofyou and just uh share any ideas
if I can help in any way, behappy to.
I have a ton of resources on mywebsite, and uh I have a great
guide for introverts.
(39:02):
So I think it could be reallyhelpful for you.
The introvert's guide tovisibility and influence in the
workplace has been really,really helpful for a lot of
people to start to build a plan.
You know, we talked about comingup with some actions, build a
little plan for yourself of howyou're gonna do this in a bigger
way.
So yeah, you can uh find it onmy website and download it.
(39:22):
And uh I'd love to have youshare some feedback with me
about what you think.
And of course, the books havetons of ideas as well.
SPEAKER_00 (39:29):
Fantastic.
We'll make sure to include thelinks, the website, everything
in the show notes for ourlisteners.
So thank you so much, Susan, forsharing your time and your
wisdom with us today.
Thanks for having me.
It was a great time.
If you enjoyed today's episode,be sure to leave a five-star
rating and review to help theQuiet Warrior Podcast reach more
(39:50):
introverts and quiet achieversaround the world.
And for the latest resources onhow to thrive as an introvert,
make sure you are subscribed tothe Visible Introvert newsletter
at serenalo.com.au.
See you on the next episode.
I'm so grateful that you're heretoday.
If you found this contentvaluable, please share it on
(40:11):
your social media channels andsubscribe to the show on your
favorite listening platform.
Together we can help moreintroverts thrive.
To receive more upliftingcontent like this, connect with
me on Instagram at Serenalo,Quiet Warrior Coach.
Thank you for sharing your timeand your energy with me.
See you on the next episode.
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Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.