November 12, 2024 • 30 mins
Discover the transformative journey of Alliant International University with insights from Andy Vaughn, its President and CEO, as he unveils the institution's strategic focus on professional practice degrees in mental health, nursing, and teaching, all designed for state licensure. Andy shares the university’s storied legacy of inclusivity and social justice, along with its evolution into a top provider of licensed clinical psychologists in the U.S. Since 2015, Alliant has honed its mission, emphasizing global thinking, diversity, and the innovative use of technology to advance higher education.
Uncover the secrets behind the affordability and effectiveness of Alliant's clinical PsyD program in California, where graduates enjoy strong employment prospects and low student loan default rates. The episode explores how gainful employment regulations have adapted to the unique journey of clinical psychologists and delves into the increased demand for mental health professionals post-pandemic. We also spotlight Alliant's unique governance model, highlighting its partnership with Bertelsmann, which supports long-term educational growth, particularly in addressing critical shortages within health sciences. Join us to learn how AI is reshaping higher education at Alliant, empowering staff to tackle complex challenges while keeping curricula globally relevant.
https://www.alliant.edu
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Hi, I'm Eloy Ortiz-Oakley and welcome back to
the Ramp, the podcast where wepull back the curtain and break
down the people, the policiesand the politics of our higher
education system.
In this episode, I get to sitdown with the president and CEO
of Alliant InternationalUniversity, andy Vaughn.
Alliant offers professionalpractice degrees in high-demand
(00:33):
areas such as mental health,nursing and teaching, to name a
few.
I will talk to Andy about thework he leads at Alliant and how
his institution's uniquegovernance structure provides
support and continuity for theirlearners.
So with that, andy, welcome tothe RENT podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Eloy, it's great to be here.
I've heard a lot about thispodcast, I've listened to the
podcast and obviously we have acouple of years of knowing each
other.
It's great to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
It's great to have you, Andy, and really appreciate
the time you're taking to talkwith us and to help our
listeners learn more about thegreat work at Alliant
International University.
So let's start there, Andy.
So Alliant International hasbeen around for some time.
It's gone through some changesin the last five, 10 years.
(01:25):
Tell us about the university'smission and about your vision
for the university going forward.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
We are a professional practice university that is
laser focused on very specificgraduate level programs, most of
which lead to state licensure.
So you know, alliant is theproduct of about five different
mergers over the last 85 to 90years, and one of the things
that all of our schools have hadin common, though, going back
(01:54):
to the turn of the century, isbreaking glass ceilings and
inclusivity and really fightingfor the underdog, and I don't
know if that was by design.
That was well before our timewhen these mergers first
happened, back in the 1930s and40s and 50s.
But it's pretty spectacular toknow you're part of an
organization that, in its DNA toits core, going back to the
(02:16):
early 1900s, was doing the rightthing, because it was the right
thing to do.
Meaning.
When we found our first articleabout nine years ago from the
San Francisco Chronicle, our lawschool at that time, alliance,
started with several differentschools.
One was Balboa College, whichwas a law school.
Back in the early 1900s inCalifornia, we saw that we had
(02:38):
graduated the first two femaleswith a JD degree, and that
shouldn't be news, but it was atthe time.
I think it was 1917, 1918.
It was front page time, and thereason I bring that up is
because it just goes to show youhow deep we go back in our
history of doing the right thing, because it's the right thing
to do.
Now.
Everybody does DEI andinclusivity.
(03:01):
Today, at least, most everybodydoes because they want to do it
, probably, but they have to doit for survival.
We've been doing this fordozens, if not over a hundred,
years, and so for me it's greatto be part of an organization
that is inclusive.
The way we write our curriculum, the way we teach.
We teach our students to beglobal thinkers.
(03:22):
We teach them to be open-minded.
We teach them to be open to newideas, different cultures,
different kinds of people, and Ithink that's part of what we do
as a mission and purpose-drivenuniversity, and at that time we
were doing a lot of thingsacross the globe.
(03:44):
We had at that time about 12campuses and we could easily see
that we were not focused on anythree to five things.
Much like you and I, on NewYear's Eve we think about our
New Year's resolutions, and ifsomeone says, hey, what's your
New Year's resolution, you sayI've got 200 things I want to do
next year.
You know as well as I do you'regoing to do none of those.
That's just too many, you don'thave the right focus.
(04:06):
Alliant was that back in 2015,trying to do everything possible
, we really narrowed it down tosay, okay, we're only going to
do what we're the best at or oneof the best at, and that was
graduate level programs thatlead to state licensure.
So over the last nine yearswe've actually become the
largest educational provider oflicensed clinical psychologists
(04:27):
in the entire United States.
A little over 10% of alllicensed psychologists in the
country come from our CaliforniaSchool of Professional
Psychology and in Californiaabout 40% do.
We've also grown our marriagefamily therapy licensure program
.
We launched social work about ayear and a half ago, and then
we have clinical counseling aswell.
(04:48):
But you look at the 55-yearhistory of our School of
Psychology.
It really is impressive on whowe attract, who our alumni are.
We have best-selling authors.
We have a sitting USCongressperson right now.
We have leaders.
We have motivational speakers.
That of course, cliniciansacross the globe.
And you mentioned it too Ourschool of education has really
(05:10):
grown quite nicely In California, by the way, an education
credential to teach K-12 is agraduate-level program too that
leads to licensure.
And then you mentioned welaunched our new School of
Nursing and Health Sciences inPhoenix that's our new campus
about six months ago.
So our mission hasn't changed.
Even through all these dozensof years in different schools,
(05:31):
that's remained the same.
What we've changed is how weoperate.
Of course, embracing technologyis a part of that.
In the last nine years too,right, but that's really done it
well to have really spectaculargrowth in our enrollments but
also growth intellectually for auniversity.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
You mentioned these professional graduate programs,
such as the one that you weretalking about, the clinical
psychology and mental healthlicensure.
You are one of the nation'slargest provider of those
graduates.
Tell us about the differentcomponent parts that have made
up Align University.
(06:08):
You know, because it'sinteresting to me, we talk a lot
about mergers these days.
We just not too long ago sawthe merger of Brandman
University with the Universityof Massachusetts.
We've seen mergers over at theUniversity of Arizona and Purdue
and other places of Arizona andPurdue and other places.
(06:29):
So we think that that's arecent phenomenon, but it sounds
like Lion has been goingthrough that for many, many
years.
So can you tell us a little bitabout those component parts and
how you've built a culturearound some of those mergers.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Yeah, and you nailed it.
That's the most important part.
It's probably the mostoverlooked part of an
acquisition or a merger is howdo the cultures blend?
How does that work?
Because that really is whatdestroys an acquisition or a
merger is right there.
So if we go back to the firstmergers, that happened, oh gosh,
probably 75, 80 years ago,maybe longer.
It was Balboa College,california Western University
(07:02):
forming to come together andformed later in the 1950s a
university called United StatesInternational University, better
known in San Diego as USIU.
Usiu also had campuses all overthe world, including Africa and
Europe and other locations Asia, japan, china and USIU had its
(07:25):
financial struggles up throughthe 1990s and had kind of run
out of rope.
At that point I think they haddeclared bankruptcy or were
close to it.
And then there's the CaliforniaSchool of Professional
Psychology.
That was an independentuniversity operating with APA
accredited clinical psychologyprograms off on its own and they
were doing fine, but theyneeded to have probably a larger
(07:48):
infrastructure.
Those two schools merged.
That's our last major merger.
Usiu and CSPP came together toform Alliant University about 24
, 25 years ago now.
That was our last major one andthe reason the name Alliant was
chosen is because of thehistory of mergers that had
happened decades before.
Alliant is a play on words.
(08:09):
It's an alliance of schools toform Alliant University.
The throwback to USIU is theword international, so that
stayed in the name.
That's why it's AlliantInternational University,
because CSPP got to keep theirname as a school within the
Alliant system, keep their nameas a school within the Alliance
system and that's how it allhappened back in about the year
(08:31):
2000, 1999 or so.
And then what happened is Iwasn't here at the time but
talking to some faculty and wehave a lot of faculty have been
around 30, 40 years.
They remember this last bigacquisition merger yes faculty
remember everything they do.
They do, they have greatmemories, and our faculty stay
for a long time, which is great.
(08:51):
By the way, not everyuniversity can say that, and I
think for us, having thathistorical knowledge is really
important to understand.
But that has been a questionyou asked.
Very important to me, too ishow do these cultures blend?
I actually found a mutualfriend who wrote her
dissertation about this mergerand I read it from cover to
(09:13):
cover and it really addressedthe culture part in a very
wonderful way.
But that's what USIU and CSPPhad in common is inclusivity,
fighting for the underdog,really paying attention to DEI
before DEI was even a known term, and that, I think, how those
cultures came together.
We attract people that trulycare about human rights.
(09:35):
We attract people and that'sfaculty and staff and students
that are alumni andadministrators.
It's the kind of person weattract that has a really good
heart.
You know they obviously have tohave other skills and
credentials too, so the kinds ofjobs that we hire for, but I
think one thing that we've hadin common for over a hundred
years is a good heart.
(09:55):
Are you doing this for theright reasons?
Do you have a passion abouthuman rights?
Do you have a passion aboutdoing what's right?
And then the value system thatwe instilled about nine years
ago.
Most of those were foundational, not even aspirational.
They were already existing inour school system.
We just had to codify them.
We call them the impact valuesand the I.
(10:15):
By the way, the very firstletter stands for inclusivity,
and that's our first and mostimportant value, and that really
is the commonality we had inour culture we had in our
culture.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Well, that sounds like a wonderful history.
You also have a history ofensuring that your learners go
through these programs and landin the careers of their choice.
I mean, learners are coming toyou for a specific purpose.
They want to get into mentalhealth, they want to get into
healthcare, they want to getinto teaching.
So they have a pretty clearidea.
How do you ensure that theyland in the careers that they're
(10:53):
hoping to get into?
Speaker 2 (10:55):
career in mental health practitioner, k-12
education classroom teacher orschool counselor, school
psychology principal or nursingor health sciences career,
because they've had this intheir DNA.
(11:15):
It's a very passion-drivendecision for them, especially
for the teachers and theclinicians on mental health
licensure programs.
We learned from our surveysthat most of them had a really
positive experience somewhere intheir life where maybe a
therapist or a psychologisthelped them through a very tough
time or maybe a trauma in theirlife or from their childhood,
(11:35):
whatever it might be, and thatinspired them to want to do the
same to help others.
And, ironically enough, ourK-12 teacher candidates had
sometimes a bad experience tomake them want to become a
teacher.
It inspired them to actuallysay you know what?
I'm going to be a part of thesolution of the teacher shortage
and I want to be a greatteacher.
(11:57):
But most of them had a positiveexperience.
A great teacher inspired themto want to be a teacher too, and
we're seeing that with ournurses too.
Typically they have a friend ora family member that's in
healthcare.
That inspired them to do thesame and so with that, that
helps a lot for studentcompletion rates.
By the way, because they havethis passion, they didn't come
in and go.
I don't know what I want to do.
(12:18):
What do you think?
And that sounds good?
That's not the way they comeinto Alliant.
They really come to us, theyknow exactly what they want to
do and we've been able to teachout our more general programs.
We don't offer liberal studiesanymore.
We don't do general businessdegrees.
We really decided about adecade ago just to have very
(12:38):
specific outcomes and licensesthat people want that lead to a
very specific gainful employmentIn higher ed.
As you know, it's called a SIPcode, but it is a very specific
license that students pursuethrough our programs and about
90% of our students are in aprogram that leads to a state
license.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
You are a private institution and for most people
these days, they associate highcost with private institutions.
How have you been able to keepyour professional practice
programs affordable, Becausethey are relatively affordable
compared to some of yourcompetitors.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Yeah.
So let's take a couple ofprograms as an example.
So clinical psychology programsare very expensive to run.
Clinical psychology programsare very expensive to run.
Your faculty-student ratios forAPA accreditation guidelines
have to be a pretty lowthreshold.
And we meet all of that, whichdoes add to the expense, and
rightfully so.
It adds to quality of theprogram.
(13:40):
That's great.
And we are the, if not the leastexpensive among the least
expensive clinical PsyD, if notthe least expensive along the
least expensive clinical PsyDdoctoral program, apa accredited
programs in the state ofCalifornia.
We know that for sure.
We do that probably by justmaking sure that we run
efficiently.
(14:00):
In other areas of theuniversity K-12 teaching
credentials in California cancost as little as $10,000, as
much as $30,000.
We're kind of right probably inthat lower percentile, 25
percentile price.
And again, I think we do thatjust because we're not into
(14:21):
price gouging.
We are very deliberate aboutpricing.
We do a lot of research aboutpricing before we bring a
program to market.
We actually lowered prices ofsome programs about five years
ago.
I remember when the email wentout.
You're programmed to think.
A few of them replied I can'tbelieve you're raising tuition.
And we replied back we're not.
We're actually lowering it forthat program, and so it was one
(14:57):
of those surprise emails I thinkwas well-received, obviously,
but I think for us if themargin's a little bit smaller,
so be it.
But for us it was reallyimportant to not price gouge and
not lead to additional studentdebt.
Now our students do take ondebt I think most students do at
most universities, right, butwe try to look at that very
carefully.
(15:17):
Obviously, right now, in apost-COVID world, student loans
have been in deferment for aperiod of four or five years.
Now they're coming out Right,so everyone's default rate is
zero right now, effectively.
But prior to COVID happening,we were very proud that our
student loan default rate wastypically between one and 2%,
sometimes up to three, buttypically between one and 2%,
(15:40):
and I think at that time thenatural average was seven or
eight, right, and there are someschools that are in the high
teens on default rates, and sofor us it's not something
necessarily that the departmentalways tracks to, but for us it
was very important to track tothat number because that tells
us that our programs are leadingmost likely leading to specific
gainful employment where astudent can make a good living
(16:02):
and pay their student loans back.
Pay their student loans back.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
So these programs are primarily, as you mentioned,
licensure programs.
They're specific to a careerfield.
How have the recent gainfulemployment language changes
affected the way you think aboutyour graduate students and how
are they doing once they getinto the workforce?
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Yeah.
So I started studying gainfulemployment back in its first
iteration back in 2011 under theObama administration, and did a
special project for anorganization at that time doing
a deep dive.
I spent a year studying theauthorship of it and tracked
that through the years.
As you know, it got rescindedlater.
Well, it didn't pass the legalfront in the first iteration,
(16:48):
got wiped out from legalchallenges back in the mid-2015
area, so got put back in, andthen the Trump administration
rescinded Gainful and then itobviously got rewritten a couple
of years back and then it'll gointo effect here this year in
2024.
And we knew that was likelygoing to happen.
I think when we go back nineyears ago, we looked very
(17:11):
closely at that and it wassomething that you have to be
very deliberate about about yourtuition prices, student loan,
debt, what are your outcomes,completion rates and so it did
inform us.
It didn't guide us necessarily,because we were already doing
everything well, but it didinform us on okay, where can we
look at different aspects of ourprogram outcomes on gainful
(17:32):
employment measurements?
I think for us, the bigsurprise was a little over two
years ago.
I got a call one night.
By the way, when yourregulatory attorney calls you
and it's eight o'clock at nighton a weeknight.
You go.
What is that call about?
And he had hey, I saw the firstdraft of gainful that comes out
tomorrow and your licensureprograms did not get the extra
(17:55):
time that you are going to needfor them to get independent
license.
Let me just explain reallybriefly.
So gainful measures at least inthe 2024 version of the gainful
.
The prior version was different.
The 2024 version of gainfulmeasures income three years
after completion of a programand looks at a student's,
graduate's, salary versus theirstudent loan debt and only a
(18:18):
certain percent of thatdiscretionary income can go to
service alone.
For us, great.
If you look at the collegescorecard, our graduates do very
well in salaries.
Right now the scorecard lookslike it's measuring five years
out.
A lot of our programs are inthat six-figure plus range, by
the way.
And so when a clinicalpsychologist graduates, they are
doctors, just like medicaldoctors and dentists.
(18:40):
They have to do residencies,making a very small stipend, and
it's not our requirements, it'sthe state of California's
requirement.
Said hey, you think youmisclassified our clinical
psychology programs.
They need another three yearsbefore you can measure income
because you're measuring theirincome when they're still doing
their post-degree required hours.
(19:01):
They're not making a lot ofmoney, and we worked with the
department on that over a periodof time and finally got that
put into the final regulation asit should be.
Because these are doctors too.
They have the same requirementsas MDs and DDS and others, and
(19:21):
so for us, once we got thatcleared with the department, I
think we were in really goodshape, and every other program's
passing by a mile.
So I think we're in really goodshape.
But to your earlier questionabout tuition rates, I think the
lower tuition rates certainlyhelped.
Informed on passing gainfulemployment regulations At this
point.
We look at all of our programsevery quarter and we fare very
well in gainful, so no bigconcerns there for our school.
(19:43):
That's great to hear.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
How has the pandemic impacted your programs?
I know for many of us who werein institutions or leading
systems of higher education thepandemic really exposed the
challenges we have with mentalhealth services that
(20:09):
administrators need, thatfaculty need, especially today
in mental health services.
How has this new environmentimpacted the way learners see
the programs in mental health orhas it impacted your enrollment
in any way?
Speaker 2 (20:27):
It did.
It had a positive impact onenrollment, especially for the
licensure programs in mentalhealth, believe it or not.
The biggest one was marriage,family therapy, couples, family
therapy.
Now, I could and, by the way,I'm married to a marriage family
therapist, so I want you tothink about that for a moment
when you're married to amarriage, family therapist.
You're always in therapy,basically.
So I think for us what we sawis the pandemic put a lot of
(20:54):
strain on the family unit, andthat could be a couple, it could
be a couple with kids, it couldbe a couple with in-laws or
parents living with them and, asyou remember, in the first 18
months of the pandemic you werestuck at home a lot.
That's right, and what we sawis a big strain on relationships
, whether that be romanticrelationships with partners or
with kids or other members ofyour family that might be living
with you or even not livingwith you, and so we saw a huge
(21:17):
increase in interest in couples,family therapy, marriage family
therapy.
For that reason, now three ofour licensure programs are
taught in what's called a hybridformat, mostly online, but
there are some residencyrequirements and obviously you
have practicums and externshipsthat you have to be in person
for for those programs.
But the toughest adjustment wasthe clinical psychology program.
(21:40):
The APA requires that to betaught on ground and they had to
quickly get permission and alltheir schools permission to go
online, which they did, and thatwas probably the biggest
struggle for faculty andstudents in that program because
they were so used to meetingtwo or three times a week and
then had to make that adjustment.
But to their credit, they did anice job.
We did that for about a yearand a half almost two years
(22:01):
where that program was taught inmostly an online format.
But both the demand went up formental health practitioners,
not just the hiring demand butthe interest in those programs.
We clearly saw an increase,especially in 2021 and 2022.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
So, andy, you are in the same boat that every other
institutional leader is rightnow, trying to figure out how
the rapid changes in technologyare going to impact their
institution, ai in particular.
How are you thinking aboutthese changes and how are you
thinking about leveraging AI toimprove the way that you serve
(22:41):
your learners?
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Like most, we a couple of years ago, year and a
half ago, put a team togetherwith a leader, a defined vision
and mission.
Call it a charter statementabout what the team was to do.
And that includes faculty too,to look at what AI, especially
the newest AI, would bring tothe university world.
(23:04):
And I think we, like mostprobably, got over our skis a
little bit in the first sixmonths, thinking this is going
to happen right now, and I thinkone thing we've learned in the
last couple of years is butright now we got to go, and I
(23:32):
think one thing we've learned inthe last couple of years is
okay, it's happening and youbetter be on it, because it is
going to change higher ed inevery sector.
However, maybe it's not going tohappen quite as fast as we
thought it would.
I've personally tried probablya hundred different apps and AI
programs and 90% of them arepretty average at best.
I've tried the PowerPoint ones.
We'll do your.
This AI program can do yourwhole PowerPoint for you and
it's pretty.
I haven't found a good one yeton that, but in other aspects
we've certainly adopted AI totake away the mundane
(23:53):
task-driven work, especially forour student-facing staff, where
AI can now inform them onprioritization, which is great.
You know you can do that beforewith Microsoft.
Some Microsoft programs thatcould automate, like automate a
lot of your functions.
But it's really improved inautomation of mundane tasks for
(24:14):
our staff.
We want to free them up tospend more of their time on
critical thinking skills onreally complex problems that
takes kind of a human brain,right now at least, to solve,
and we've been fairly successfulin doing that, especially in
our credential programs, wherecredential analysts get a lot of
contacts and students.
What we found is about the sameseven or eight questions from
(24:36):
every student, and so AI canhelp automate a lot of that.
Where then the calls that docome through that need human
contact are those more complexproblems.
That's what we're really tryingto do right now.
Where AI is likely going to go,though, at least for us in
higher education, is just oneexample of hundreds out there is
(24:56):
.
You know, we hear from ourstudents and student surveys
about how sometimes curriculumfalls behind, and you've been in
higher ed long enough to knowthat the world changes so
quickly.
Now your curriculum can beoutdated six months after you
write it.
I think one of the things AIcan do is basically
cross-referencing what are thelatest demands and changes, even
in language or terminology, orwhere is the world going, and
(25:22):
help keep us in check as auniversity to make sure that our
curriculum is right there onwhat today's challenges are, so
we can quickly change that.
That'd be one example ofhundreds out there, but our team
is working on some of thosevisions right now for AI
adoption for us.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Andy, let me ask you one final question as we begin
to wrap up.
We've already talked about someof the uniqueness about Alliant
International University how itcame together, how it's the
product of a series of mergersover time, so it is somewhat
unique.
In higher education, I mean,those of us who come from the
(26:00):
publics, you know, see thingsvery black and white.
But there is a lot of room fordifferent variations to serve
populations of learnersthroughout the country and serve
them effectively andefficiently.
And your model is also somewhatunique in terms of how it's
governed, some of the ownershipstructures.
(26:21):
Can you describe the governancestructure for Alliant
International University?
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Sure, we have two boards.
We have a governing boardcalled the Board of Trustees,
and that is an independent boardthat actually governs the
university, our academics, ourfinances, the operation itself,
all the outcomes of theuniversity, and it's a 10-member
board of trustees that'sindependent from any
organization and it'sself-perpetuating.
(26:48):
The other board is the board ofdirectors, and we have an
investor.
They are known as Bertelsmann,one of the largest companies in
Europe, if not the world, andBertelsmann also owns Athea,
which is our sister schools inSouth America.
They're the largest provider oflicensed medical doctors and
(27:09):
other healthcare industries inSouth America.
They're based in Rio, and thenwe have a sister company called
Relias in North Carolina.
They're based in Rio, and thenwe have a sister company called
Relias in North Carolina.
They're the largest, or if notone of the largest, healthcare
compliance training companies.
And then, up until recently,udacity was a sister company of
ours too.
They were just divestedrecently, but Udacity was a part
of our education group as well.
So that's our education group,by the way, our sister company,
(27:32):
our biggest ones in the US,Penguin Random House Publishing,
and then a company calledFremantle in Los Angeles and in
Hollywood, bmg Records, wherethe B stands for Bertelsmann is
a fun company that we do workwith as well.
So for us, the Bertelsmannboard is a much smaller board.
It's three people, but that'sour finance board.
(27:54):
That's our smaller board.
It's three people, but that'sour finance board, that's our
investment board.
When Alliant seeks to open anew campus or new programs or to
invest in infrastructure, likea new SIS, which is not
inexpensive, as you know, theBertelsmann board is the one
that approves those kinds ofcapital expenditures,
investments, and typically it'san equity investment versus a
debt investment for us, which iswonderful for the university
(28:14):
because it doesn't encumber uswith debt typically, and that's
a nice partnership to have.
Bertelsmann is a great partner.
They're a long-term, visionarypartner.
They're not into buy and sell,they're really into buy and hold
and grow.
They have a lot of patience.
We just invested 5 or 10million in a new nursing program
in Phoenix and so, as you know,million in a new nursing
(28:38):
program in Phoenix, and so, asyou know, the expense in opening
programs like that, just forthe capital expense on labs and
facilities, you don't see areturn on an investment like
that for a number of years.
It usually takes four, fiveyears to break even on that.
They're fine with that.
They have a lot of patience andthey're doing it for the right
reasons.
They want to help solveshortages in key areas, and that
would be mental health, k-12education and health sciences,
(29:00):
and that's what we're all about.
They're a great partner for usfor that reason.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Well, and those are three critical areas for the
state of California and for thecountry.
So, Andy, I really appreciateyou taking the time to sit down
with me and have thisconversation about the work that
you're leading at AlliantInternational University and
really help our listeners betterunderstand the work that you do
and the importance oforganizations like Alliant, who
(29:27):
are providing some of our mostcritical health care providers
mental health providers.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
So thanks for coming on the rant Eloy, always a
pleasure to see and talk to you.
Thank you so much for theinvite.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Great Well, thanks everybody for joining us here.
I've been having the pleasureof sitting down with Andy Vaughn
, the president and CEO ofAlliant International University
, and I want to take a moment tothank Alliant.
They are a sponsor of the Rantpodcast, and without their
support, we wouldn't be able tobring you the kinds of
interviews and in-depthconversations that we're having,
like the one here with Andy.
If you enjoyed this episode,please hit the like button,
(30:07):
continue to follow us on yourfavorite podcast platform, hit
subscribe to this YouTubechannel and we will be back to
you shortly with another greatepisode.
Thanks for joining us everybody.
Hi, I'm Eloy Ortiz-Oakley and welcome back to
the Ramp, the podcast where wepull back the curtain and break
down the people, the policiesand the politics of our higher
education system.
In this episode, I get to sitdown with the president and CEO
of Alliant InternationalUniversity, andy Vaughn.
Alliant offers professionalpractice degrees in high-demand
(00:33):
areas such as mental health,nursing and teaching, to name a
few.
I will talk to Andy about thework he leads at Alliant and how
his institution's uniquegovernance structure provides
support and continuity for theirlearners.
So with that, andy, welcome tothe RENT podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Eloy, it's great to be here.
I've heard a lot about thispodcast, I've listened to the
podcast and obviously we have acouple of years of knowing each
other.
It's great to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
It's great to have you, Andy, and really appreciate
the time you're taking to talkwith us and to help our
listeners learn more about thegreat work at Alliant
International University.
So let's start there, Andy.
So Alliant International hasbeen around for some time.
It's gone through some changesin the last five, 10 years.
(01:25):
Tell us about the university'smission and about your vision
for the university going forward.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
We are a professional practice university that is
laser focused on very specificgraduate level programs, most of
which lead to state licensure.
So you know, alliant is theproduct of about five different
mergers over the last 85 to 90years, and one of the things
that all of our schools have hadin common, though, going back
(01:54):
to the turn of the century, isbreaking glass ceilings and
inclusivity and really fightingfor the underdog, and I don't
know if that was by design.
That was well before our timewhen these mergers first
happened, back in the 1930s and40s and 50s.
But it's pretty spectacular toknow you're part of an
organization that, in its DNA toits core, going back to the
(02:16):
early 1900s, was doing the rightthing, because it was the right
thing to do.
Meaning.
When we found our first articleabout nine years ago from the
San Francisco Chronicle, our lawschool at that time, alliance,
started with several differentschools.
One was Balboa College, whichwas a law school.
Back in the early 1900s inCalifornia, we saw that we had
(02:38):
graduated the first two femaleswith a JD degree, and that
shouldn't be news, but it was atthe time.
I think it was 1917, 1918.
It was front page time, and thereason I bring that up is
because it just goes to show youhow deep we go back in our
history of doing the right thing, because it's the right thing
to do.
Now.
Everybody does DEI andinclusivity.
(03:01):
Today, at least, most everybodydoes because they want to do it
, probably, but they have to doit for survival.
We've been doing this fordozens, if not over a hundred,
years, and so for me it's greatto be part of an organization
that is inclusive.
The way we write our curriculum, the way we teach.
We teach our students to beglobal thinkers.
(03:22):
We teach them to be open-minded.
We teach them to be open to newideas, different cultures,
different kinds of people, and Ithink that's part of what we do
as a mission and purpose-drivenuniversity, and at that time we
were doing a lot of thingsacross the globe.
(03:44):
We had at that time about 12campuses and we could easily see
that we were not focused on anythree to five things.
Much like you and I, on NewYear's Eve we think about our
New Year's resolutions, and ifsomeone says, hey, what's your
New Year's resolution, you sayI've got 200 things I want to do
next year.
You know as well as I do you'regoing to do none of those.
That's just too many, you don'thave the right focus.
(04:06):
Alliant was that back in 2015,trying to do everything possible
, we really narrowed it down tosay, okay, we're only going to
do what we're the best at or oneof the best at, and that was
graduate level programs thatlead to state licensure.
So over the last nine yearswe've actually become the
largest educational provider oflicensed clinical psychologists
(04:27):
in the entire United States.
A little over 10% of alllicensed psychologists in the
country come from our CaliforniaSchool of Professional
Psychology and in Californiaabout 40% do.
We've also grown our marriagefamily therapy licensure program
.
We launched social work about ayear and a half ago, and then
we have clinical counseling aswell.
(04:48):
But you look at the 55-yearhistory of our School of
Psychology.
It really is impressive on whowe attract, who our alumni are.
We have best-selling authors.
We have a sitting USCongressperson right now.
We have leaders.
We have motivational speakers.
That of course, cliniciansacross the globe.
And you mentioned it too Ourschool of education has really
(05:10):
grown quite nicely In California, by the way, an education
credential to teach K-12 is agraduate-level program too that
leads to licensure.
And then you mentioned welaunched our new School of
Nursing and Health Sciences inPhoenix that's our new campus
about six months ago.
So our mission hasn't changed.
Even through all these dozensof years in different schools,
(05:31):
that's remained the same.
What we've changed is how weoperate.
Of course, embracing technologyis a part of that.
In the last nine years too,right, but that's really done it
well to have really spectaculargrowth in our enrollments but
also growth intellectually for auniversity.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
You mentioned these professional graduate programs,
such as the one that you weretalking about, the clinical
psychology and mental healthlicensure.
You are one of the nation'slargest provider of those
graduates.
Tell us about the differentcomponent parts that have made
up Align University.
(06:08):
You know, because it'sinteresting to me, we talk a lot
about mergers these days.
We just not too long ago sawthe merger of Brandman
University with the Universityof Massachusetts.
We've seen mergers over at theUniversity of Arizona and Purdue
and other places of Arizona andPurdue and other places.
(06:29):
So we think that that's arecent phenomenon, but it sounds
like Lion has been goingthrough that for many, many
years.
So can you tell us a little bitabout those component parts and
how you've built a culturearound some of those mergers.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Yeah, and you nailed it.
That's the most important part.
It's probably the mostoverlooked part of an
acquisition or a merger is howdo the cultures blend?
How does that work?
Because that really is whatdestroys an acquisition or a
merger is right there.
So if we go back to the firstmergers, that happened, oh gosh,
probably 75, 80 years ago,maybe longer.
It was Balboa College,california Western University
(07:02):
forming to come together andformed later in the 1950s a
university called United StatesInternational University, better
known in San Diego as USIU.
Usiu also had campuses all overthe world, including Africa and
Europe and other locations Asia, japan, china and USIU had its
(07:25):
financial struggles up throughthe 1990s and had kind of run
out of rope.
At that point I think they haddeclared bankruptcy or were
close to it.
And then there's the CaliforniaSchool of Professional
Psychology.
That was an independentuniversity operating with APA
accredited clinical psychologyprograms off on its own and they
were doing fine, but theyneeded to have probably a larger
(07:48):
infrastructure.
Those two schools merged.
That's our last major merger.
Usiu and CSPP came together toform Alliant University about 24
, 25 years ago now.
That was our last major one andthe reason the name Alliant was
chosen is because of thehistory of mergers that had
happened decades before.
Alliant is a play on words.
(08:09):
It's an alliance of schools toform Alliant University.
The throwback to USIU is theword international, so that
stayed in the name.
That's why it's AlliantInternational University,
because CSPP got to keep theirname as a school within the
Alliant system, keep their nameas a school within the Alliance
system and that's how it allhappened back in about the year
(08:31):
2000, 1999 or so.
And then what happened is Iwasn't here at the time but
talking to some faculty and wehave a lot of faculty have been
around 30, 40 years.
They remember this last bigacquisition merger yes faculty
remember everything they do.
They do, they have greatmemories, and our faculty stay
for a long time, which is great.
(08:51):
By the way, not everyuniversity can say that, and I
think for us, having thathistorical knowledge is really
important to understand.
But that has been a questionyou asked.
Very important to me, too ishow do these cultures blend?
I actually found a mutualfriend who wrote her
dissertation about this mergerand I read it from cover to
(09:13):
cover and it really addressedthe culture part in a very
wonderful way.
But that's what USIU and CSPPhad in common is inclusivity,
fighting for the underdog,really paying attention to DEI
before DEI was even a known term, and that, I think, how those
cultures came together.
We attract people that trulycare about human rights.
(09:35):
We attract people and that'sfaculty and staff and students
that are alumni andadministrators.
It's the kind of person weattract that has a really good
heart.
You know they obviously have tohave other skills and
credentials too, so the kinds ofjobs that we hire for, but I
think one thing that we've hadin common for over a hundred
years is a good heart.
(09:55):
Are you doing this for theright reasons?
Do you have a passion abouthuman rights?
Do you have a passion aboutdoing what's right?
And then the value system thatwe instilled about nine years
ago.
Most of those were foundational, not even aspirational.
They were already existing inour school system.
We just had to codify them.
We call them the impact valuesand the I.
(10:15):
By the way, the very firstletter stands for inclusivity,
and that's our first and mostimportant value, and that really
is the commonality we had inour culture we had in our
culture.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Well, that sounds like a wonderful history.
You also have a history ofensuring that your learners go
through these programs and landin the careers of their choice.
I mean, learners are coming toyou for a specific purpose.
They want to get into mentalhealth, they want to get into
healthcare, they want to getinto teaching.
So they have a pretty clearidea.
How do you ensure that theyland in the careers that they're
(10:53):
hoping to get into?
Speaker 2 (10:55):
career in mental health practitioner, k-12
education classroom teacher orschool counselor, school
psychology principal or nursingor health sciences career,
because they've had this intheir DNA.
(11:15):
It's a very passion-drivendecision for them, especially
for the teachers and theclinicians on mental health
licensure programs.
We learned from our surveysthat most of them had a really
positive experience somewhere intheir life where maybe a
therapist or a psychologisthelped them through a very tough
time or maybe a trauma in theirlife or from their childhood,
(11:35):
whatever it might be, and thatinspired them to want to do the
same to help others.
And, ironically enough, ourK-12 teacher candidates had
sometimes a bad experience tomake them want to become a
teacher.
It inspired them to actuallysay you know what?
I'm going to be a part of thesolution of the teacher shortage
and I want to be a greatteacher.
(11:57):
But most of them had a positiveexperience.
A great teacher inspired themto want to be a teacher too, and
we're seeing that with ournurses too.
Typically they have a friend ora family member that's in
healthcare.
That inspired them to do thesame and so with that, that
helps a lot for studentcompletion rates.
By the way, because they havethis passion, they didn't come
in and go.
I don't know what I want to do.
(12:18):
What do you think?
And that sounds good?
That's not the way they comeinto Alliant.
They really come to us, theyknow exactly what they want to
do and we've been able to teachout our more general programs.
We don't offer liberal studiesanymore.
We don't do general businessdegrees.
We really decided about adecade ago just to have very
(12:38):
specific outcomes and licensesthat people want that lead to a
very specific gainful employmentIn higher ed.
As you know, it's called a SIPcode, but it is a very specific
license that students pursuethrough our programs and about
90% of our students are in aprogram that leads to a state
license.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
You are a private institution and for most people
these days, they associate highcost with private institutions.
How have you been able to keepyour professional practice
programs affordable, Becausethey are relatively affordable
compared to some of yourcompetitors.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Yeah.
So let's take a couple ofprograms as an example.
So clinical psychology programsare very expensive to run.
Clinical psychology programsare very expensive to run.
Your faculty-student ratios forAPA accreditation guidelines
have to be a pretty lowthreshold.
And we meet all of that, whichdoes add to the expense, and
rightfully so.
It adds to quality of theprogram.
(13:40):
That's great.
And we are the, if not the leastexpensive among the least
expensive clinical PsyD, if notthe least expensive along the
least expensive clinical PsyDdoctoral program, apa accredited
programs in the state ofCalifornia.
We know that for sure.
We do that probably by justmaking sure that we run
efficiently.
(14:00):
In other areas of theuniversity K-12 teaching
credentials in California cancost as little as $10,000, as
much as $30,000.
We're kind of right probably inthat lower percentile, 25
percentile price.
And again, I think we do thatjust because we're not into
(14:21):
price gouging.
We are very deliberate aboutpricing.
We do a lot of research aboutpricing before we bring a
program to market.
We actually lowered prices ofsome programs about five years
ago.
I remember when the email wentout.
You're programmed to think.
A few of them replied I can'tbelieve you're raising tuition.
And we replied back we're not.
We're actually lowering it forthat program, and so it was one
(14:57):
of those surprise emails I thinkwas well-received, obviously,
but I think for us if themargin's a little bit smaller,
so be it.
But for us it was reallyimportant to not price gouge and
not lead to additional studentdebt.
Now our students do take ondebt I think most students do at
most universities, right, butwe try to look at that very
carefully.
(15:17):
Obviously, right now, in apost-COVID world, student loans
have been in deferment for aperiod of four or five years.
Now they're coming out Right,so everyone's default rate is
zero right now, effectively.
But prior to COVID happening,we were very proud that our
student loan default rate wastypically between one and 2%,
sometimes up to three, buttypically between one and 2%,
(15:40):
and I think at that time thenatural average was seven or
eight, right, and there are someschools that are in the high
teens on default rates, and sofor us it's not something
necessarily that the departmentalways tracks to, but for us it
was very important to track tothat number because that tells
us that our programs are leadingmost likely leading to specific
gainful employment where astudent can make a good living
(16:02):
and pay their student loans back.
Pay their student loans back.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
So these programs are primarily, as you mentioned,
licensure programs.
They're specific to a careerfield.
How have the recent gainfulemployment language changes
affected the way you think aboutyour graduate students and how
are they doing once they getinto the workforce?
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Yeah.
So I started studying gainfulemployment back in its first
iteration back in 2011 under theObama administration, and did a
special project for anorganization at that time doing
a deep dive.
I spent a year studying theauthorship of it and tracked
that through the years.
As you know, it got rescindedlater.
Well, it didn't pass the legalfront in the first iteration,
(16:48):
got wiped out from legalchallenges back in the mid-2015
area, so got put back in, andthen the Trump administration
rescinded Gainful and then itobviously got rewritten a couple
of years back and then it'll gointo effect here this year in
2024.
And we knew that was likelygoing to happen.
I think when we go back nineyears ago, we looked very
(17:11):
closely at that and it wassomething that you have to be
very deliberate about about yourtuition prices, student loan,
debt, what are your outcomes,completion rates and so it did
inform us.
It didn't guide us necessarily,because we were already doing
everything well, but it didinform us on okay, where can we
look at different aspects of ourprogram outcomes on gainful
(17:32):
employment measurements?
I think for us, the bigsurprise was a little over two
years ago.
I got a call one night.
By the way, when yourregulatory attorney calls you
and it's eight o'clock at nighton a weeknight.
You go.
What is that call about?
And he had hey, I saw the firstdraft of gainful that comes out
tomorrow and your licensureprograms did not get the extra
(17:55):
time that you are going to needfor them to get independent
license.
Let me just explain reallybriefly.
So gainful measures at least inthe 2024 version of the gainful
.
The prior version was different.
The 2024 version of gainfulmeasures income three years
after completion of a programand looks at a student's,
graduate's, salary versus theirstudent loan debt and only a
(18:18):
certain percent of thatdiscretionary income can go to
service alone.
For us, great.
If you look at the collegescorecard, our graduates do very
well in salaries.
Right now the scorecard lookslike it's measuring five years
out.
A lot of our programs are inthat six-figure plus range, by
the way.
And so when a clinicalpsychologist graduates, they are
doctors, just like medicaldoctors and dentists.
(18:40):
They have to do residencies,making a very small stipend, and
it's not our requirements, it'sthe state of California's
requirement.
Said hey, you think youmisclassified our clinical
psychology programs.
They need another three yearsbefore you can measure income
because you're measuring theirincome when they're still doing
their post-degree required hours.
(19:01):
They're not making a lot ofmoney, and we worked with the
department on that over a periodof time and finally got that
put into the final regulation asit should be.
Because these are doctors too.
They have the same requirementsas MDs and DDS and others, and
(19:21):
so for us, once we got thatcleared with the department, I
think we were in really goodshape, and every other program's
passing by a mile.
So I think we're in really goodshape.
But to your earlier questionabout tuition rates, I think the
lower tuition rates certainlyhelped.
Informed on passing gainfulemployment regulations At this
point.
We look at all of our programsevery quarter and we fare very
well in gainful, so no bigconcerns there for our school.
(19:43):
That's great to hear.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
How has the pandemic impacted your programs?
I know for many of us who werein institutions or leading
systems of higher education thepandemic really exposed the
challenges we have with mentalhealth services that
(20:09):
administrators need, thatfaculty need, especially today
in mental health services.
How has this new environmentimpacted the way learners see
the programs in mental health orhas it impacted your enrollment
in any way?
Speaker 2 (20:27):
It did.
It had a positive impact onenrollment, especially for the
licensure programs in mentalhealth, believe it or not.
The biggest one was marriage,family therapy, couples, family
therapy.
Now, I could and, by the way,I'm married to a marriage family
therapist, so I want you tothink about that for a moment
when you're married to amarriage, family therapist.
You're always in therapy,basically.
So I think for us what we sawis the pandemic put a lot of
(20:54):
strain on the family unit, andthat could be a couple, it could
be a couple with kids, it couldbe a couple with in-laws or
parents living with them and, asyou remember, in the first 18
months of the pandemic you werestuck at home a lot.
That's right, and what we sawis a big strain on relationships
, whether that be romanticrelationships with partners or
with kids or other members ofyour family that might be living
with you or even not livingwith you, and so we saw a huge
(21:17):
increase in interest in couples,family therapy, marriage family
therapy.
For that reason, now three ofour licensure programs are
taught in what's called a hybridformat, mostly online, but
there are some residencyrequirements and obviously you
have practicums and externshipsthat you have to be in person
for for those programs.
But the toughest adjustment wasthe clinical psychology program.
(21:40):
The APA requires that to betaught on ground and they had to
quickly get permission and alltheir schools permission to go
online, which they did, and thatwas probably the biggest
struggle for faculty andstudents in that program because
they were so used to meetingtwo or three times a week and
then had to make that adjustment.
But to their credit, they did anice job.
We did that for about a yearand a half almost two years
(22:01):
where that program was taught inmostly an online format.
But both the demand went up formental health practitioners,
not just the hiring demand butthe interest in those programs.
We clearly saw an increase,especially in 2021 and 2022.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
So, andy, you are in the same boat that every other
institutional leader is rightnow, trying to figure out how
the rapid changes in technologyare going to impact their
institution, ai in particular.
How are you thinking aboutthese changes and how are you
thinking about leveraging AI toimprove the way that you serve
(22:41):
your learners?
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Like most, we a couple of years ago, year and a
half ago, put a team togetherwith a leader, a defined vision
and mission.
Call it a charter statementabout what the team was to do.
And that includes faculty too,to look at what AI, especially
the newest AI, would bring tothe university world.
(23:04):
And I think we, like mostprobably, got over our skis a
little bit in the first sixmonths, thinking this is going
to happen right now, and I thinkone thing we've learned in the
last couple of years is butright now we got to go, and I
(23:32):
think one thing we've learned inthe last couple of years is
okay, it's happening and youbetter be on it, because it is
going to change higher ed inevery sector.
However, maybe it's not going tohappen quite as fast as we
thought it would.
I've personally tried probablya hundred different apps and AI
programs and 90% of them arepretty average at best.
I've tried the PowerPoint ones.
We'll do your.
This AI program can do yourwhole PowerPoint for you and
it's pretty.
I haven't found a good one yeton that, but in other aspects
we've certainly adopted AI totake away the mundane
(23:53):
task-driven work, especially forour student-facing staff, where
AI can now inform them onprioritization, which is great.
You know you can do that beforewith Microsoft.
Some Microsoft programs thatcould automate, like automate a
lot of your functions.
But it's really improved inautomation of mundane tasks for
(24:14):
our staff.
We want to free them up tospend more of their time on
critical thinking skills onreally complex problems that
takes kind of a human brain,right now at least, to solve,
and we've been fairly successfulin doing that, especially in
our credential programs, wherecredential analysts get a lot of
contacts and students.
What we found is about the sameseven or eight questions from
(24:36):
every student, and so AI canhelp automate a lot of that.
Where then the calls that docome through that need human
contact are those more complexproblems.
That's what we're really tryingto do right now.
Where AI is likely going to go,though, at least for us in
higher education, is just oneexample of hundreds out there is
(24:56):
.
You know, we hear from ourstudents and student surveys
about how sometimes curriculumfalls behind, and you've been in
higher ed long enough to knowthat the world changes so
quickly.
Now your curriculum can beoutdated six months after you
write it.
I think one of the things AIcan do is basically
cross-referencing what are thelatest demands and changes, even
in language or terminology, orwhere is the world going, and
(25:22):
help keep us in check as auniversity to make sure that our
curriculum is right there onwhat today's challenges are, so
we can quickly change that.
That'd be one example ofhundreds out there, but our team
is working on some of thosevisions right now for AI
adoption for us.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Andy, let me ask you one final question as we begin
to wrap up.
We've already talked about someof the uniqueness about Alliant
International University how itcame together, how it's the
product of a series of mergersover time, so it is somewhat
unique.
In higher education, I mean,those of us who come from the
(26:00):
publics, you know, see thingsvery black and white.
But there is a lot of room fordifferent variations to serve
populations of learnersthroughout the country and serve
them effectively andefficiently.
And your model is also somewhatunique in terms of how it's
governed, some of the ownershipstructures.
(26:21):
Can you describe the governancestructure for Alliant
International University?
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Sure, we have two boards.
We have a governing boardcalled the Board of Trustees,
and that is an independent boardthat actually governs the
university, our academics, ourfinances, the operation itself,
all the outcomes of theuniversity, and it's a 10-member
board of trustees that'sindependent from any
organization and it'sself-perpetuating.
(26:48):
The other board is the board ofdirectors, and we have an
investor.
They are known as Bertelsmann,one of the largest companies in
Europe, if not the world, andBertelsmann also owns Athea,
which is our sister schools inSouth America.
They're the largest provider oflicensed medical doctors and
(27:09):
other healthcare industries inSouth America.
They're based in Rio, and thenwe have a sister company called
Relias in North Carolina.
They're based in Rio, and thenwe have a sister company called
Relias in North Carolina.
They're the largest, or if notone of the largest, healthcare
compliance training companies.
And then, up until recently,udacity was a sister company of
ours too.
They were just divestedrecently, but Udacity was a part
of our education group as well.
So that's our education group,by the way, our sister company,
(27:32):
our biggest ones in the US,Penguin Random House Publishing,
and then a company calledFremantle in Los Angeles and in
Hollywood, bmg Records, wherethe B stands for Bertelsmann is
a fun company that we do workwith as well.
So for us, the Bertelsmannboard is a much smaller board.
It's three people, but that'sour finance board.
(27:54):
That's our smaller board.
It's three people, but that'sour finance board, that's our
investment board.
When Alliant seeks to open anew campus or new programs or to
invest in infrastructure, likea new SIS, which is not
inexpensive, as you know, theBertelsmann board is the one
that approves those kinds ofcapital expenditures,
investments, and typically it'san equity investment versus a
debt investment for us, which iswonderful for the university
(28:14):
because it doesn't encumber uswith debt typically, and that's
a nice partnership to have.
Bertelsmann is a great partner.
They're a long-term, visionarypartner.
They're not into buy and sell,they're really into buy and hold
and grow.
They have a lot of patience.
We just invested 5 or 10million in a new nursing program
in Phoenix and so, as you know,million in a new nursing
(28:38):
program in Phoenix, and so, asyou know, the expense in opening
programs like that, just forthe capital expense on labs and
facilities, you don't see areturn on an investment like
that for a number of years.
It usually takes four, fiveyears to break even on that.
They're fine with that.
They have a lot of patience andthey're doing it for the right
reasons.
They want to help solveshortages in key areas, and that
would be mental health, k-12education and health sciences,
(29:00):
and that's what we're all about.
They're a great partner for usfor that reason.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Well, and those are three critical areas for the
state of California and for thecountry.
So, Andy, I really appreciateyou taking the time to sit down
with me and have thisconversation about the work that
you're leading at AlliantInternational University and
really help our listeners betterunderstand the work that you do
and the importance oforganizations like Alliant, who
(29:27):
are providing some of our mostcritical health care providers
mental health providers.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
So thanks for coming on the rant Eloy, always a
pleasure to see and talk to you.
Thank you so much for theinvite.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Great Well, thanks everybody for joining us here.
I've been having the pleasureof sitting down with Andy Vaughn
, the president and CEO ofAlliant International University
, and I want to take a moment tothank Alliant.
They are a sponsor of the Rantpodcast, and without their
support, we wouldn't be able tobring you the kinds of
interviews and in-depthconversations that we're having,
like the one here with Andy.
If you enjoyed this episode,please hit the like button,
(30:07):
continue to follow us on yourfavorite podcast platform, hit
subscribe to this YouTubechannel and we will be back to
you shortly with another greatepisode.
Thanks for joining us everybody.
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