November 5, 2025 • 41 mins
What if your dog’s itching isn’t a disease to crush but a message to decode? We dive into the hidden costs of “quick relief” meds like Apoquel, how immune suppression fuels bigger problems, and why so many pet parents feel trapped between fear and expensive guesswork. With candid stories from real cases, we walk through a calmer plan: rule out what’s truly urgent, support hydration and comfort, then fix the food first. That simple shift—paired with targeted supplements and time—often quiets the skin without gambling on the immune system.
We unpack why “asymptomatic cancer” language has crept into pet care and how fear-based marketing nudges owners toward early testing and aggressive treatment without symptoms to justify it. Then we examine the clinical tradeoffs: JAK inhibition, increased infections, lymphoma signals in package inserts, and the compounding risks of stacking immunosuppressants. For triage, we compare short, carefully managed prednisone to buy healing time while root causes are addressed, not as a permanent crutch. The throughline is clear and practical: remove triggers, repair the gut-skin axis, and let the body do its job.
Food is the lever with the greatest return. We explain how processed kibble, frequent vaccines, and pesticide preventives layer stress on the immune system, and why a species-appropriate raw diet can reduce inflammatory load, support the microbiome, and help resolve itching faster. We also tackle the economics of veterinary care—production quotas, corporate ownership, CE talks sponsored by drug and pet food companies—and propose a new paradigm built on education, transparent risk-benefit conversations, and outcome-focused care. If you want a trusted path that prioritizes health over habit, this conversation is your blueprint.
If this resonates, follow and subscribe, share with a friend who’s battling their dog’s skin issues, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway. Your story might be the nudge another pet parent needs to choose a healthier path.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Oh, snap, snap.
Well, hello, raw feeders.
I'm Didi Mercer Moffat, CEO ofRaw Dog Food and Company, where
your pets help is our business,and we're friends like my
friend, Dr.
Judy Jasic.
Uh, doesn't let friends feedkibble and probably doesn't let
him get on apple quil, whichwe're going to talk about today.
No way, Jasic.
SPEAKER_02 (00:20):
No way.
No, no apple quil and no testingfor asymptomatic cancer either.
SPEAKER_01 (00:26):
What is asymptomatic cancer?
Would you explain that one tome?
Asymptomatic cancer.
What does this mean?
You actually do have cancer.
We're probing for cancer.
We're just looking at it, eventhough there's nothing wrong
with you at all.
What does this mean?
SPEAKER_02 (00:40):
I think it means they want a reason to start
chemotherapy and start treatingcancer.
They want a reason to starttreating cancer without any
symptoms to support that there'scancer there in the first place.
So I'd like to like run thattest.
I'll have to see, like, getsomebody here that's got a pet
(01:00):
and just run it just to see,like, like an otherwise
completely healthy dog and likehow many of them come up
positive.
Because I bet anything, a lot ofhealthy dogs are gonna come up
positive.
It's like, well, I can hear theverbiage.
Well, if we start treating now,then we're gonna prevent it,
then we're gonna prevent thecancer from taking home because
your dog, otherwise, you know,in six months, your dog's gonna
(01:21):
have cancer.
But asymptomatic, and you know,we were talking about this at
our at our team meeting today,how the verbiage, the verbiage
that came out during COVID, likeyou didn't really hear the term
asymptomatic infections untilyou know, then COVID came out,
you know, like widespread.
Like you know what asymptomaticmeans.
No, so but it came up duringCOVID.
(01:43):
Well, you can be an asymptomaticcarrier, like us evil
unvaccinated people.
You could be asymptomatic and oror asymptomatic shedder.
I think we could be shedding itand not be, you know, and and
not be symptomatic and all that.
So now they're using that sameword.
It's like it's all one big plan,one big marketing plan.
(02:04):
Like let's start the fear andthen let's float these words out
there, like asymptomatic, andyeah.
SPEAKER_01 (02:12):
You know, I'd like to know, I'd like to know how
many people, okay, were bullied,okay, threatened, shamed, you
know, all of those words um bytheir doctor, okay, to get the
injections, and then they'restill seeing that doctor with
(02:34):
all of the information that hascome out, right?
Dr.
JC, all the information that'scome out.
Why, if something is so good,would you have to incentivize
somebody with thousands, tens ofthousands of dollars?
Why?
Why?
Because as they say, whensomething is good, the word gets
(02:56):
out and people want it.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (02:58):
People are screaming it from the rooftops, yeah.
Right, right.
Awesome.
I mean, did you ever hearanybody say, gosh, I just got
that COVID shot?
Man, do I feel great?
I just feel better than I'veever felt in my whole life.
Usually they're in bed for threedays afterwards, or worse, worse
symptoms.
SPEAKER_01 (03:16):
Right.
And I just, I just wonder,because again, like I've said
before, it shatters your trustin in the health professionals.
Just like, you know, this whenwhen Lazie got sick and she was
vomiting profusely, and you wereon that ride with me, right?
(03:39):
Because I was texting you.
And it always reminds me, youknow that Carvana commercial,
Dr.
Jasic, where it's uh, I forgetthe actors, it's a husband and
wife acting team, and they'relike gonna sell a car.
And she's like, Hold, hold, youknow, like he's like, we gotta
sell, we gotta sell.
She's like, hold.
That's how I kind of felt likewhen we were going through the
(04:00):
whole thing with with Lazie, youwere like, Hold, you know,
deliver enzymes, then hold,don't do, hold, don't do
anything, you know.
And um, but for me, when I thinkabout what they put Lazie
through, all of the tests thatthey were trying to convince me
that she was um pushing, she wasAddison, she had pancreatitis,
(04:26):
she had lepto, she had she hadnone of it, zero.
SPEAKER_02 (04:31):
She had a she had an upset stomach.
Her body was trying to purgesomething, right?
And she got dehydrated, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (04:39):
And so it it makes perfect sense to me that pet
parents would be in an enormousamount of fear because they're
like, okay, obviously I'm not adoctor, and as a pet parent
would think to themselves, I'mnot a doctor, I know that my pet
is in distress.
(05:00):
However, I don't trust thisentire community over here.
So what do I do?
Right?
It's it's a it's a very, very,very serious issue.
It's a very real issue thatwe're going through with our
pets and in the healthcarecommunity.
Yeah, period, Barnott.
SPEAKER_02 (05:20):
That's what I want to do.
I'm gonna create a new paradigmand start training up some young
vets that get it and that peoplecan trust.
And I've met a few, and it'sit's really exciting to think
that because, like someday,like, you know, I quit doing
this.
Well, then what are people?
Well, not like I'm the only onethat practices this way, but
(05:42):
there aren't very many that do.
And you know, and and a lot ofus are getting older.
A lot of the people I know thathave this same kind of mindset
are getting older.
So we need to get theyoungsters, and the youngsters
have it really hard because theycome out of school with a bunch
of debt and they've been allindoctrinated by the system.
But if if you know, my goal is Ican inspire them to practice a
(06:09):
different way, and you know, uhworking on setting up a little
clinic where I can demonstrateit.
You know, I feel like you can'tjust say it, you got to say,
look, this is what this lookslike.
This is how this operates, liketrue health, where people come
in and they learn aboutwellness.
They learn about how to feedtheir pet and how not to do all
(06:31):
these vaccines and all thesepharmaceuticals and how to
really create health and theyget the education they need.
So it's like you're never goingto change the system as it is.
So we need a whole new, we needa whole new paradigm.
We need a whole new approach andsystem for educating pet
(06:51):
parents, but they need someplaceto go where they can trust the
people and that that they knowthey're they have the knowledge
base, you know.
It's not just they're reading inin a Facebook group or
something, you know, they it'ssomebody they trust that has the
background, the knowledge baseto to guide them appropriately.
And you know, it's it's sohealth is so simple, you know,
(07:18):
just sometimes the body justneeds a little help, you know.
That what they see as disease isjust the body like lousy, just
trying to purr, trying to getvomit and get get something out.
And then she got dehydrated.
I was talking to at thechiropractic office, I started
going to one of the ladiesthere, was telling me she had a
little 15-year-old dog, and andthe dog's been doing great,
(07:38):
already eating raw and doingreally good, and then it stopped
eating.
And it was seemed acting reallypainful.
So they go in and they put it onpain meds and all this stuff.
The dog is not eating anddrinking.
So the dog went a whole weekwithout eating and drinking.
Well, it's already dehydrated,they're not doing fluids,
(07:58):
they're giving it pain meds.
Turns out the dog had anabscessed anal gland, you know,
we were in a fever, right?
Right, they completelymisdiagnosed the whole thing
that was going on with the dog.
If they had just kept the doghigh and the dog's kidney values
went up because it's an olderdog, so they can't bounce back,
(08:19):
they can't like not drink enoughfor a whole week, and they just
don't bounce back overnight.
So then finally they figuredthis out, and the dog got some
fluids.
Now the dog's doing fine.
But you know, that dog couldhave died not from kidney
failure, but because theyweren't supporting its body
properly, you know.
I see it all the time.
It's like the same thing likeyou went through with lousy, and
I just see that scenario all thetime.
(08:42):
They just keep testing andmedicating and testing and
medicating, and you just need todo some basic support, rule out
anything life-threatening, andthen give the body a couple days
to heal.
You know, it's so it's sosimple, but they don't make
enough money doing that.
These poor private equitycompanies that own these
corporate clinics.
I mean, geez, I'd hate to seethe you know, these executives
(09:06):
not get their multi-milliondollar bonuses, you know, I'd be
a shame.
Breaks my heart just to thinkabout it.
SPEAKER_01 (09:13):
You know, it's it it the other side of it, too, is
what makes it so frightening isthe warning labels, the labels
that clearly say these drugsthat are super duper popular,
like the anti-itch medicationApoquil, have these massive
(09:35):
adverse uh effects, includingcancer.
But I wonder if anybody outthere that's listening that has
their dog on ApoQuil.
Okay.
CytoPoint, ApoQuil, you know,they're different, but we're
talking about a little bitdifferent.
(09:55):
I mean, they both do some of thesame things, the different ones
shut down different things, butApoQuil specifically, which has
been, I see it advertised on TVall the time, it has some
massively scary side effects,Dr.
JC.
Great.
SPEAKER_03 (10:16):
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (10:18):
And yet pet parents think that this is a great
alternative instead of changingthe food.
Now, maybe I I would contendthat most people that are
listening to this podcast mightchange the food or probably
already have changed the food,but people that don't know
(10:40):
anything about raw because theirpet health professionals poo-poo
it don't even have an idea thatit's a very simple change in a
lot of circumstances, right?
Change the food, stop puttingtoxins in, but they're gonna put
this very, very scary drug intheir pet.
(11:01):
And I would bet that they're nottold that prior to, they're not
given full consent, right?
Right.
They're not told that, you know,some of the side effects are,
you know, it could be worseningskin infections.
Um there could be, you know,lumps and growths.
(11:22):
Um, there might be some earinfections going on, uh, maybe
even cancer, Dr.
JC, maybe even cancer.
And I would say that dogs thatare eating a poor diet, um doing
all of the preventatives, thengetting on something like this.
(11:46):
Typically, we see the nextphase, however many years down
the road that is, cancer.
Wow, cancer just popped up.
SPEAKER_02 (11:57):
Right.
I think if pet parents, like ifthey don't believe us, they
don't have to believe us, butjust ask, ask your vet, like
they want to search on a drugnamed Apple, hey, could I see
the you know, the the packageinsert?
Because that, you know, safetywarning I sent you, it was
actually an ad, and it's just aI just I'm on a general
(12:19):
veterinary list, so I get thesejournals and stuff, and it was
an ad in there forveterinarians.
So veterinarians have thisinformation if they're reading
it, and wouldn't you think,wouldn't you think that a
veterinarian, the professionthat's supposed to keep pets
healthy, that they read thesafety warnings on the drugs
that they're handing out, likecandy?
(12:39):
But I bet, I bet they don't.
And that ad Applequil, it wasquick acting.
So guess what?
You can give your pet cancereven faster.
SPEAKER_01 (12:48):
Oh, yes, let's let's let's tell the truth.
Would you like to give your dogcancer super fast?
We've got the answer for youright here.
Yeah, I so the importantwarnings, it's right there in
the important warnings.
Um, Apoquil can also suppressimmune response, making
infections more likely or harderto control.
(13:09):
And then it does also say itinhibits the genus kinase or the
JAC enzymes, um, which canaffect your immune system.
And it has been observed in dogstreated with apoquil lymphoma
and other cancers.
SPEAKER_02 (13:29):
Right.
So why would you risk that?
I mean, is that worth not havingyour dog itch, especially when
we we tell people and peoplelisten to us that if you change
the diet, that that can help andyou stop vaccinating as much and
you and you don't use the thenext guard and brevecto, these
(13:49):
lean tick products, which areshown to cause uh itching too.
So if you're using thoseproducts, your pet's likely to
itch more.
So this is better.
You risk cancer.
I mean, you're you're puttingyour pet's life on the line.
I mean, how would you that?
Or who would do that?
But the other thing is thisdrug, when it first came out,
(14:12):
one of the big marketing thingswas not a steroid.
So they kind of made, you know,people get a little afraid.
Oh, I don't want to do steroids.
I'm I'm worried about thatprednisone.
I can tell you prednisone is waysafer than this.
Not that I would use it longterm for itching, but if I had
to do something short term, likesay a pet's just they're digging
holes in their skin, they're soitchy, and we just need to give
(14:36):
them a chance to rest and andget some other things on board
and make some changes, maybechange the diet and all that.
I'd do two weeks of prednisonebefore I'd ever do anything like
Apical because prednisone doeshave its own side effects, but a
couple of weeks, it's not goingto give your pet cancer because
I've been doing that for years,just short term, just to give
(14:57):
some temporary relief, you know,um, anti-inflammatory relief.
Um, prednisone is way safer, butthey make people afraid of that.
And it's the fear thing, theymake people afraid of the
prednisone.
But guess what?
We got another alternativethat's even more toxic, but you
don't have to be afraid of thatone.
Isn't that crazy?
They make people afraid of thething that's not as dangerous,
(15:20):
and they give them somethingelse and tell them they don't
have to be afraid of it, eventhough the side effects are way
worse.
How does that happen?
I just don't I just don't getit.
SPEAKER_01 (15:30):
You know, and I was looking in like some of these
drugs, you know, what do theydo?
Right.
So the uh quarter uh steroidsand stuff like that, and
primnisone's in that arena, buthydrocortisone is in there, but
there's also uh cytotoxic drugs,so those are chemotherapy
(15:51):
agents, and then there's alsohow do you say this calcinurine
uh inhibitors, calcinurin, um,and then the jack inhibitors,
what we were just talking about,like apoplequill.
And so it was saying in a lot ofthese, it blocks the T cell
activation, the T cell.
(16:12):
So I'm like, is that the killerT cells?
Is that the cells that actuallykill the cancer cells?
Is that why we we see in thesetypes of drugs?
Because they're blocking the Tcell activation.
SPEAKER_02 (16:26):
Yeah, they're blocking the actual the way that
the reason they stop the itchingbecause itching is an immune
response.
It's the body is reacting tosomething.
And anything that just can shutoff itching, it's it's stopping
the immune system from acting.
And they're like you're saying,there's different mechanisms.
All the different drugs that dothat have different mechanisms
of of action.
They're affecting a differentpart of the immune system.
(16:48):
But yeah, they're stopping thebody from functioning properly
and eliminating abnormal cellslike cancer cells.
And you know, the body hasdefense mechanisms to deal with
toxins and you know, unwantedbacteria or you know, things,
foreign bodies, foreign thingsthat come into the body and
(17:08):
abnormal cells like cancercells.
The body has mechanisms forcleaning them up.
If you shut down thosemechanisms, sure, then they can
just take hold and grow.
SPEAKER_01 (17:17):
So I remember, you know, Neely saying, because she
would see these dogs, right?
That and and you've seen them,where their hair, right, has
totally fallen out a lot oftimes underneath the body,
right?
No hair, and their skin's black.
And she would say, in almostevery single one of these dogs
(17:37):
that she saw, what she found outwas that these dogs all were on
some type of steroid, had beenon a steroid, and then they got
put on apoquil.
And then, um, so she would seethis, and she's she did say that
then then these dogs also a lotof them had cancer.
(18:01):
And when you do some research onthis, it says combining multiple
immunosuppressants like apoquiland steroids plus cyclosporin
greatly increases seriousinfections and cancers in dogs.
SPEAKER_02 (18:18):
Yeah, and I see that done all the time, apical and
steroids, even though they, youknow, will tell people, you
know, that apical is better andyou don't want to use the
steroids, they'll still dosteroids in the short term.
So they just give this big, youknow, blast of it.
And and even prednisone, youknow, if it's a long-term
(18:38):
treatment, I've seen a lot ofthose pets.
So this is way before likeapical was even a thing, and
pets would be put on steroidsfor months and months and
months, those pets would getcancer too.
A couple weeks, they're usuallyokay because you're alleviating
the stress and allowing the skinto heal.
But at the same time, you'reyou're starting other things,
you're changing the diet, you'redoing herbs, you're doing things
(19:00):
to help treat the skin, and thenyou can you can wean them off.
But and why start them onmultiple?
You know, if you're gonna startthem on one on a medication to
suppress the immune system,doesn't it make sense to start
that one and see if it worksbefore you start stacking two or
three of them?
But no, I see them start two orthree at the same time because
(19:20):
we need to even cancer fastbecause they make a lot of money
selling chemotherapy.
You know, cynical these days?
SPEAKER_01 (19:27):
It's okay.
It's okay.
I'm right there with you.
I am I'm right there with you.
I just think that okay, you haveto, you guys, you have to think
of it like this.
Let what what is your job?
Not you, Dr.
JC, but just talking to ourlisteners.
So let's think about this.
What is the job that supportsyou, right?
(19:50):
Pays your house payment, feedsyour kids, puts gas in your car.
Okay.
Now, let's say that some sort ofinformation came out that you
know about, not everybody knowsabout it, but you know about it.
And if that information got out,that the job that you do somehow
(20:17):
is either harming theenvironment or the chemicals
that are in your plant orharming, you know, wildlife or
whatever.
Let's just say that that gotout.
Would you would you want to blowthe whistle?
Would you really still um keepyour mouth shut?
(20:41):
Or would you hope like hell thatthat information never got out
because it would affect yourincome, it would totally affect
your way of life, it wouldaffect your income.
Would you just somehow justifyit in your mind?
The fact that you don't look atit, you don't do the research,
(21:01):
you act like it doesn't existbecause it would affect your
income, it would affect the wayyou eat.
What would you do?
And because you know, you thinkabout it, we're not talking,
we're talking about millions andmillions, if not billions, of
(21:25):
dollars in the pet food industryalone.
So they don't really want tolook at that, they don't really
want to look at that and say,well, you know, this kind of
food really does cause itchingin the pets, and I could just
get them off that food.
But if you got them off thatfood and that food happens to be
(21:47):
the food that you sell, thatkibble, that prescription diet,
are you really gonna do that?
Or are you just gonna put themon something?
Because if you if you said go toa raw diet, you don't sell a raw
diet, you're losing income.
Okay.
Now, if you go to an applequill, which causes cancer,
right, you aren't gonna lose anymoney actually, you're gonna
(22:09):
make money.
Right.
So I just I just think that thatthere it's it's got to be this
massive compartmentalization,right?
Because I can't believe thateverybody out there likes to
just make people empathy.
They just don't want to beinconvenienced in their own
(22:30):
lives, they don't want to haveto find a new way to make money,
right?
SPEAKER_02 (22:36):
And you know, in the and the vets, the medical
professionals, you know, thiswhole thing called standard of
care.
So the AVMA says this is anFDA-approved drug, this Apple
quil, so it's okay to use it.
So then they're like, Well, theAVMA says it's okay.
There's these safety warnings,but you know, they say it's okay
and it's standard of care.
(22:56):
So I can't get in trouble butfor using it.
Even if it harms my patients, Ican't get sued.
You know, I mean, I guess theycould get sued, but they've got
a pretty strong stance if it'sconsidered standard of care and
it's and it's FDA approved andall that.
So they feel that something's ifsomething is considered standard
(23:17):
of care, they feel the safetynet, and then it's okay, even
though the warnings say allthese side effects.
I don't know what, I don't knowhow they justify that to the
vets.
Like, so if I I I used to grillthe the pharmaceutical reps that
would come in to visit me, andeventually they didn't come in
(23:39):
anymore.
Because all as they have isbeauty, no fun because because
it became a game.
Once I sell the game, you know,they just come in with their
script and they sell this stuffand they tell you how to sell it
based on fear and how much moneyyou're gonna make and all this
stuff.
And my game was to ask themquestions till they couldn't
answer them because they allthey have is a script, yet it's
(24:01):
what these pharmaceutical repssay that dictates how the vets
treat their patients.
That's who's deciding your petscare when you go into the vet.
It's what they've been told bythe pharmaceutical rep who comes
in and buys them lunch and says,Okay, you just sell this and you
give this drug for this thing,and look at this apple quill,
it's quick acting and now it'schewable, so it's easier to get
(24:23):
it in them.
I doubt that they read thoseadverse effects, but they print
them out there so that they'rethere, so they can't say that
you didn't know, and then thenyou know they they the companies
can put it on the vets, but thenthe vets are let off the hook
because it's standard of careand the poor pets are left with
(24:44):
cancer.
It's a mess-up system.
It is.
SPEAKER_01 (24:48):
If if you do a search of what standard of care
is, okay, here's what it saysthe degree of care, skill, and
judgment that reasonably skilledprofessionals in similar
circumstances would exercise.
Um, so they say in humanmedicine, it's what a doctor
(25:08):
with similar training would dofor a similar patient.
And in veterinary medicine, whata competent okay, veterinarian
would do for a similar animalunder similar circumstances.
But here's the key feature ofthat reasonable and appropriate.
It says it's not the bestpossible care, but what is
(25:34):
considered reasonable under thecircumstances.
It's not the reasonable andappropriate, okay.
Reasonable and appropriate, it'snot the best possible care.
It doesn't even have to makethem better, just reasonable and
appropriate.
But think about this, Dr.
Jason.
If we took that and we appliedit to what happened in COVID,
(25:57):
okay, what a doctor with similartraining would do for a similar
patient.
So Dr.
Fauci was the one that was, youknow, the mouthpiece.
He doesn't even see patients,he's never seen a patient.
And what kind of doctor is heanyway?
Well, I don't even know.
Every doctor was was going inlockstep.
(26:20):
In lockstep.
You couldn't even, and here'sthe other thing: if we ever
enter into a place like thisagain, where companies because
hospitals are a company, okay,are greatly incentivized, then
(26:41):
you have censorship mixed withthat.
So somebody's greatlyincentivized, and then there's
censorship.
Don't you think there's aproblem there, guys?
I mean, just one of those wouldbe bad, but let's combine the
two, shall we?
We're gonna pay you great dealsof money to say this, and we're
(27:05):
gonna censor anybody that goesagainst you.
Now, I don't know why anybodythought that was a good idea.
Right.
But that's exactly whathappened.
SPEAKER_02 (27:18):
Mm-hmm.
It's probably that same thing inthe vet vet profession.
I mean, I don't know who who isgetting the uh the big payoffs,
but I'm sure the same thing ishappening.
There's vets.
Well, it probably happens atthese at the continuing
education meetings, you know,where they their speakers, and
(27:39):
the speakers typically the talksat the big meetings are
sponsored by either like you goto a nutrition lecture, it's
going to be sponsored by Hillsor Royal Canaan or Purina.
And bottom line is they'repromoting one of their foods.
So are they paying that speakera little kickback to promote
their food?
(27:59):
Bet they are, and it's the samething.
All of those, all of those bigmeetings, those like the AVMA
and you know, most of like thestate associations, they're all
sponsored by these big drugcompanies and the food
companies.
And they buy lunches and dinnersand they put on entertainment,
but all of the talks aresponsored by one of these big
companies.
(28:19):
And bottom line is it'spromoting their products.
I mean, they they make it soundlike they're reporting research
and that they're reportingscience, but it's really just a
big marketing thing.
That's all it really is, it'snot education at all.
SPEAKER_01 (28:34):
Yeah, I was I was looking up um why so many vets
commit suicide.
I was like, why?
And and and and it it's quiteinteresting, actually.
Um, so it says thatveterinarians' experience um has
(28:57):
one of the highest suicide ratesamong professions, often
exceeding that of the generalpopulation.
And then because there's so manymental health stressors, they
say, in this profession, right?
They got long hours, heavyworkloads, and the emotional
(29:17):
exhaustion from caring for sickanimals, right?
Because why do people go to thevet most of the time?
Because their animals are sick,and then they say, you know,
they have this hugeresponsibility, life and death
decisions for animals, which areum, you know, often under you
know certain timelines andregulations.
(29:40):
And so this impact of euthanasiaas well, they say, is really um
linked to this moral distress,grief, and depression in the
vets.
So I often wonder, Dr.
Jasek, I mean, think about this.
You go to vet school, you comeout, you got 150.
To$250,000 in debt, you go towork for a clinic and you're not
(30:05):
making, you know, that kind ofmoney.
I mean, if you're a greatsurgeon, maybe you do, but
you've got these high workloads,you see a lot of sick animals.
Don't you think that more vets,or doesn't it seem like more
vets would be saying, what thehell is wrong?
It can't be that these animalsjust are sick.
(30:29):
It can't be that all theseanimals just need to die.
Isn't there a better way?
I mean, don't you think thatsomehow they they would say,
okay.
And and I don't know, maybe theyjust feel trapped.
SPEAKER_02 (30:44):
Maybe I think they know, I think they know deep in
their heart.
Because they think I thinkanybody that goes to vet school
really truly goes because theywant to help the animals.
Because you don't go to vetschool to be rich.
You know, you can make a goodliving, but if you're Dr.
SPEAKER_01 (30:59):
Morty, Dr.
Morty's pet food, because youget the seizure.
But he's in the food business.
SPEAKER_02 (31:06):
Um but I think that I think they start out well
intentioned, but then you know,they get taught this bill of
goods and and how to do allthese, you know, just do all
these pharmaceuticals, and theygotta see.
I mean, that's when I woke up.
I'm like, this isn't working.
Like I've learned all thisstuff.
This isn't helping pets.
I mean, I saw it right before myeyes.
(31:27):
That's why I changed.
So every vet has to see that,but maybe they just don't know
how to break out of it.
So, like you said, they feeltrapped, and that's feeling
traps a really tough positionwith so many clinics now being
corporate, and they got a goodsalary, they got this debt,
maybe they have a young familyto support.
It it can be hard.
(31:48):
Yet uh part of them, I thinkthey just know they're selling
their soul and they're not doingwhat's in the best interest of
the animals, and that's why theyend up, you know, killing
themselves, because they justdon't, they just don't see a way
out.
But there, but there is a wayout, you know, they can practice
differently.
They they just they just don'tsee it, they just don't know
(32:11):
what that path is.
By the time they get out of thatschool, they're so indoctrinated
that they just don't see anotherpath.
That's what I want to try to do.
I want to shine a flashlight onthe other path.
SPEAKER_01 (32:22):
That's right.
Because you have created anotherpath.
You have created another path.
And Dr.
Jasic, it's not as if you'vebeen hiding in a corner.
We talk about this stuff on onthe on the podcast all the time.
You go out and you give talks,and and and why do I say that?
(32:42):
Because I'm saying a I feelthat, and correct me if I'm
wrong, that a lot of vets worrythat they're gonna lose their
license.
Right.
You haven't had your licenseyanked, and furthermore, I've
heard you say, take my license.
I don't need it to do what Iknow I can do to help pets.
SPEAKER_03 (33:02):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (33:04):
Right, there is another way you can create a
great lifestyle in helping pets.
And that is why I'm so excitedabout you know these things that
these clinics that you'relooking at creating.
Um, and if there are any vetsout there, if there are any vets
(33:28):
out there that are listening, ifyou have somebody in your family
that's currently in vet school,just got out of vet school, um
it's gonna be it, it it it itthey're in a they're in a
captured environment for sure.
There, there is no way uh otherthan that because they they have
quotas, right?
(33:49):
You bring in a you you bring inan um uh ultrasound.
I I've seen it, our daughter'sbet, I've seen you know what
they do inside these clinics.
You bring in an ultrasoundmachine, now you've got to get
the people to use it because thedarn thing's expensive, gotta
pay for it, right?
Right.
Um, so if you think you don'thave quotas, if you think
(34:12):
there's not some sort offinancial incentive incentive to
do things that maybe you don'tneed to do, that that definitely
are gonna put our pet parents inhardship, financial hardship,
emotional hardship, andcertainly a lot of it, not even
good for the pet, right?
SPEAKER_02 (34:33):
Totally different way, and they're definitely paid
on production.
I mean, the the vets, like partof their salary is a percentage
of what they make.
They're they're making they'rebaking a commission and they
have monthly quotas to make.
And so if a vet needs to makegenerate, they have to they're
some of them are obligated togenerate a certain amount of
(34:56):
money for the clinic, like everymonth.
And if they don't, they have topay that money back.
They don't get a bonus and thenthey have to pay the money back.
So if you go in on the last dayof the month and they haven't
met their quota yet, I get getthe upsell so that they can meet
their quota, or they're gettingready to go on vacation.
They need a little extra money.
(35:16):
Well, you know, they sell a fewextra things, then they get a
little, a little, you know,healthier paycheck that month,
and then they can go on a nicervacation.
So it's, you know, I it's it'dbe easy to get wrapped into
that.
And that's why they do it, youknow.
And then the vets maybe competewith each other.
How much did you make this?
How much and that sadly, that'swhat practice success becomes.
(35:38):
Like you go to these bigmeetings and they also have
practice management lectureswhere they because because we
have no business training.
Vets don't get any businesstraining.
You go out and you get thesepractice management lectures,
and practice success, it's allabout the money.
You never I've never once sat ina practice management lecture
where it said, How do you trackthe health of your patients?
(36:00):
Do you track how many healthypatients, how many pets got
better, how many, you know,successful skin treatments you
had?
They never tell you to trackthose statistics.
The only thing they teach you totrack is the bottom line.
And yeah, you're in business.
So yes, you got to look at thenumbers, but you're in the
business of healing.
And if you're not tracking howsuccessful you are as a healer,
(36:24):
then all you're doing is ismoney.
And I think that's where thevets end up feeling like they're
selling their souls becausethey're not healers anymore.
They go to vet school wanting tobe healers and they end up as
drug pushers.
That's not why they went.
So they just feel trapped anddoesn't feel rewarding, and they
(36:45):
just don't know how to dodifferent, they just don't know
the way out and they paid allthis money, or even if mom and
dad paid for it, well, they'llyou know, they'll be
disappointed in me if I don'tkeep this career, but they're
miserable.
And you still got the debt.
SPEAKER_01 (37:00):
You got the debt.
I got the debt.
Yep, you got the debt, and soyou gotta I I would just
encourage you guys to again, ifyou know anybody that is in vet
school that has just come out ofvet school, maybe they've been
at you know, a vet for a while,and you could just see the light
has gone out in their eyes.
(37:22):
You it would really, reallybehoove them and you to tell
them about Dr.
J-Z and to have a conversation,have them reach out to me.
SPEAKER_02 (37:30):
I'm happy to talk to any of them, really.
SPEAKER_01 (37:32):
Yeah, because it is a huge industry, but look, we
all love pets.
We all love our pets.
We want our pets to be healthy,and we have got to find a
different way to do it, right?
And um, there is a way Dr.
J-Z has done it, and it justtakes somebody standing behind
(37:54):
you saying, hey, this fear isbaseless, right?
SPEAKER_02 (37:59):
And and you know, the amazing thing is I'm
actually able to make a livingdoing it too.
You know, like they teach thebest, like, well, you you got to
sell all these products uh inorder to make a living.
Well, I came full circle and Igot people coming in to see me
because I'm not doing all thatstuff.
So there's plenty of people thatwant that kind of care.
(38:20):
And you can do Chinese medicine,you can do acupuncture, you can
do chiropractic.
There's so many things you cando to help pets that is not
about just pushing a bunch ofdrugs into them.
And if you do the right businessplan, you can have a very nice
income and not stress and youenjoy it, and you enjoy it.
You don't have to be, you know,medical professionals don't have
(38:42):
to feel stressed and trapped.
You can actually practice in away that is really enjoyable.
SPEAKER_01 (38:47):
Yeah.
So get over to a havet.com.
That's ah vet.com.
That's where dr jace gives.
She can um talk to you, do aconsultation, uh, whether that's
for you as a vet, uh, aspiringvet, and a veteran vet, um, or
(39:08):
whether that's for your pet.
You can get over to ah vet.com.
And listen, get your dog on aspecies-appropriate diet.
Um, I just don't, uh, there isnothing good about kibble.
Uh, cooked is gonna besubstandard.
I mean, raw is the top of thechain, guys.
It is what your animals werecreated to eat.
(39:31):
Um, if bacteria, if the bigbacteria boogeyman was gonna get
the dogs, well, in my 25 years,I think I would have seen it.
You know, Dr.
Jesse, I just haven't seen it.
Me either.
I don't know where it is.
I don't know where it is either.
And I will say this that therules and laws around producing
(39:51):
the raw diets are so much morestringent today than they were
25 years ago.
Okay.
And I certainly didn't see itthen.
I darn sure don't see it now.
So that is a that is just youcan just toss that right out the
door.
Toss it right out the door.
And I would challenge your bets.
I would challenge your bets.
Why is my dog itching?
(40:13):
I I gosh, I wish you guys wouldjust send me all the reasons
that they say your dog itches.
Well, my dog's allergic.
Okay, well, okay, I see thathe's itching, but what is
causing it?
unknown (40:24):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (40:24):
Well, it says whatever.
I mean, we can help.
We can help.
And and we are in the true pethealth business.
We care about how your dog feelsand looks.
Our dogs eat raw, our dogs havebeen on raw.
We have a huge body of evidence.
Um, a huge body of evidence.
(40:45):
So we'll talk to you.
It's free.
It's free to talk to us, and wecan certainly help you get
started on a species appropriatediet.
Brian is right there.
He's in the chat.
Uh, you can sign up for a freeconsultation.
We will help you get your dogfeeling and looking better
today.
Just get over to RobDogfoodandCompany.com.
Got lots of products uh becauseyou know, your pet's health is
(41:09):
our business.
And what, Dr.
JC?
Our friends don't let friendsfeed kibble, y'all.
That's right.
We'll see you soon, everybody.
Bye.
Bye.
Oh, snap, snap, snap.
SPEAKER_00 (41:20):
Find out how you can start your dog on the road to
health and longevity.
Go to rawdogfoodandcompany.comwhere friends don't let friends
feed kibble and where your pet'shealth is our business.
Oh, snap, snap.
Well, hello, raw feeders.
I'm Didi Mercer Moffat, CEO ofRaw Dog Food and Company, where
your pets help is our business,and we're friends like my
friend, Dr.
Judy Jasic.
Uh, doesn't let friends feedkibble and probably doesn't let
him get on apple quil, whichwe're going to talk about today.
No way, Jasic.
SPEAKER_02 (00:20):
No way.
No, no apple quil and no testingfor asymptomatic cancer either.
SPEAKER_01 (00:26):
What is asymptomatic cancer?
Would you explain that one tome?
Asymptomatic cancer.
What does this mean?
You actually do have cancer.
We're probing for cancer.
We're just looking at it, eventhough there's nothing wrong
with you at all.
What does this mean?
SPEAKER_02 (00:40):
I think it means they want a reason to start
chemotherapy and start treatingcancer.
They want a reason to starttreating cancer without any
symptoms to support that there'scancer there in the first place.
So I'd like to like run thattest.
I'll have to see, like, getsomebody here that's got a pet
(01:00):
and just run it just to see,like, like an otherwise
completely healthy dog and likehow many of them come up
positive.
Because I bet anything, a lot ofhealthy dogs are gonna come up
positive.
It's like, well, I can hear theverbiage.
Well, if we start treating now,then we're gonna prevent it,
then we're gonna prevent thecancer from taking home because
your dog, otherwise, you know,in six months, your dog's gonna
(01:21):
have cancer.
But asymptomatic, and you know,we were talking about this at
our at our team meeting today,how the verbiage, the verbiage
that came out during COVID, likeyou didn't really hear the term
asymptomatic infections untilyou know, then COVID came out,
you know, like widespread.
Like you know what asymptomaticmeans.
No, so but it came up duringCOVID.
(01:43):
Well, you can be an asymptomaticcarrier, like us evil
unvaccinated people.
You could be asymptomatic and oror asymptomatic shedder.
I think we could be shedding itand not be, you know, and and
not be symptomatic and all that.
So now they're using that sameword.
It's like it's all one big plan,one big marketing plan.
(02:04):
Like let's start the fear andthen let's float these words out
there, like asymptomatic, andyeah.
SPEAKER_01 (02:12):
You know, I'd like to know, I'd like to know how
many people, okay, were bullied,okay, threatened, shamed, you
know, all of those words um bytheir doctor, okay, to get the
injections, and then they'restill seeing that doctor with
(02:34):
all of the information that hascome out, right?
Dr.
JC, all the information that'scome out.
Why, if something is so good,would you have to incentivize
somebody with thousands, tens ofthousands of dollars?
Why?
Why?
Because as they say, whensomething is good, the word gets
(02:56):
out and people want it.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (02:58):
People are screaming it from the rooftops, yeah.
Right, right.
Awesome.
I mean, did you ever hearanybody say, gosh, I just got
that COVID shot?
Man, do I feel great?
I just feel better than I'veever felt in my whole life.
Usually they're in bed for threedays afterwards, or worse, worse
symptoms.
SPEAKER_01 (03:16):
Right.
And I just, I just wonder,because again, like I've said
before, it shatters your trustin in the health professionals.
Just like, you know, this whenwhen Lazie got sick and she was
vomiting profusely, and you wereon that ride with me, right?
(03:39):
Because I was texting you.
And it always reminds me, youknow that Carvana commercial,
Dr.
Jasic, where it's uh, I forgetthe actors, it's a husband and
wife acting team, and they'relike gonna sell a car.
And she's like, Hold, hold, youknow, like he's like, we gotta
sell, we gotta sell.
She's like, hold.
That's how I kind of felt likewhen we were going through the
(04:00):
whole thing with with Lazie, youwere like, Hold, you know,
deliver enzymes, then hold,don't do, hold, don't do
anything, you know.
And um, but for me, when I thinkabout what they put Lazie
through, all of the tests thatthey were trying to convince me
that she was um pushing, she wasAddison, she had pancreatitis,
(04:26):
she had lepto, she had she hadnone of it, zero.
SPEAKER_02 (04:31):
She had a she had an upset stomach.
Her body was trying to purgesomething, right?
And she got dehydrated, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (04:39):
And so it it makes perfect sense to me that pet
parents would be in an enormousamount of fear because they're
like, okay, obviously I'm not adoctor, and as a pet parent
would think to themselves, I'mnot a doctor, I know that my pet
is in distress.
(05:00):
However, I don't trust thisentire community over here.
So what do I do?
Right?
It's it's a it's a very, very,very serious issue.
It's a very real issue thatwe're going through with our
pets and in the healthcarecommunity.
Yeah, period, Barnott.
SPEAKER_02 (05:20):
That's what I want to do.
I'm gonna create a new paradigmand start training up some young
vets that get it and that peoplecan trust.
And I've met a few, and it'sit's really exciting to think
that because, like someday,like, you know, I quit doing
this.
Well, then what are people?
Well, not like I'm the only onethat practices this way, but
(05:42):
there aren't very many that do.
And you know, and and a lot ofus are getting older.
A lot of the people I know thathave this same kind of mindset
are getting older.
So we need to get theyoungsters, and the youngsters
have it really hard because theycome out of school with a bunch
of debt and they've been allindoctrinated by the system.
But if if you know, my goal is Ican inspire them to practice a
(06:09):
different way, and you know, uhworking on setting up a little
clinic where I can demonstrateit.
You know, I feel like you can'tjust say it, you got to say,
look, this is what this lookslike.
This is how this operates, liketrue health, where people come
in and they learn aboutwellness.
They learn about how to feedtheir pet and how not to do all
(06:31):
these vaccines and all thesepharmaceuticals and how to
really create health and theyget the education they need.
So it's like you're never goingto change the system as it is.
So we need a whole new, we needa whole new paradigm.
We need a whole new approach andsystem for educating pet
(06:51):
parents, but they need someplaceto go where they can trust the
people and that that they knowthey're they have the knowledge
base, you know.
It's not just they're reading inin a Facebook group or
something, you know, they it'ssomebody they trust that has the
background, the knowledge baseto to guide them appropriately.
And you know, it's it's sohealth is so simple, you know,
(07:18):
just sometimes the body justneeds a little help, you know.
That what they see as disease isjust the body like lousy, just
trying to purr, trying to getvomit and get get something out.
And then she got dehydrated.
I was talking to at thechiropractic office, I started
going to one of the ladiesthere, was telling me she had a
little 15-year-old dog, and andthe dog's been doing great,
(07:38):
already eating raw and doingreally good, and then it stopped
eating.
And it was seemed acting reallypainful.
So they go in and they put it onpain meds and all this stuff.
The dog is not eating anddrinking.
So the dog went a whole weekwithout eating and drinking.
Well, it's already dehydrated,they're not doing fluids,
(07:58):
they're giving it pain meds.
Turns out the dog had anabscessed anal gland, you know,
we were in a fever, right?
Right, they completelymisdiagnosed the whole thing
that was going on with the dog.
If they had just kept the doghigh and the dog's kidney values
went up because it's an olderdog, so they can't bounce back,
(08:19):
they can't like not drink enoughfor a whole week, and they just
don't bounce back overnight.
So then finally they figuredthis out, and the dog got some
fluids.
Now the dog's doing fine.
But you know, that dog couldhave died not from kidney
failure, but because theyweren't supporting its body
properly, you know.
I see it all the time.
It's like the same thing likeyou went through with lousy, and
I just see that scenario all thetime.
(08:42):
They just keep testing andmedicating and testing and
medicating, and you just need todo some basic support, rule out
anything life-threatening, andthen give the body a couple days
to heal.
You know, it's so it's sosimple, but they don't make
enough money doing that.
These poor private equitycompanies that own these
corporate clinics.
I mean, geez, I'd hate to seethe you know, these executives
(09:06):
not get their multi-milliondollar bonuses, you know, I'd be
a shame.
Breaks my heart just to thinkabout it.
SPEAKER_01 (09:13):
You know, it's it it the other side of it, too, is
what makes it so frightening isthe warning labels, the labels
that clearly say these drugsthat are super duper popular,
like the anti-itch medicationApoquil, have these massive
(09:35):
adverse uh effects, includingcancer.
But I wonder if anybody outthere that's listening that has
their dog on ApoQuil.
Okay.
CytoPoint, ApoQuil, you know,they're different, but we're
talking about a little bitdifferent.
(09:55):
I mean, they both do some of thesame things, the different ones
shut down different things, butApoQuil specifically, which has
been, I see it advertised on TVall the time, it has some
massively scary side effects,Dr.
JC.
Great.
SPEAKER_03 (10:16):
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (10:18):
And yet pet parents think that this is a great
alternative instead of changingthe food.
Now, maybe I I would contendthat most people that are
listening to this podcast mightchange the food or probably
already have changed the food,but people that don't know
(10:40):
anything about raw because theirpet health professionals poo-poo
it don't even have an idea thatit's a very simple change in a
lot of circumstances, right?
Change the food, stop puttingtoxins in, but they're gonna put
this very, very scary drug intheir pet.
(11:01):
And I would bet that they're nottold that prior to, they're not
given full consent, right?
Right.
They're not told that, you know,some of the side effects are,
you know, it could be worseningskin infections.
Um there could be, you know,lumps and growths.
(11:22):
Um, there might be some earinfections going on, uh, maybe
even cancer, Dr.
JC, maybe even cancer.
And I would say that dogs thatare eating a poor diet, um doing
all of the preventatives, thengetting on something like this.
(11:46):
Typically, we see the nextphase, however many years down
the road that is, cancer.
Wow, cancer just popped up.
SPEAKER_02 (11:57):
Right.
I think if pet parents, like ifthey don't believe us, they
don't have to believe us, butjust ask, ask your vet, like
they want to search on a drugnamed Apple, hey, could I see
the you know, the the packageinsert?
Because that, you know, safetywarning I sent you, it was
actually an ad, and it's just aI just I'm on a general
(12:19):
veterinary list, so I get thesejournals and stuff, and it was
an ad in there forveterinarians.
So veterinarians have thisinformation if they're reading
it, and wouldn't you think,wouldn't you think that a
veterinarian, the professionthat's supposed to keep pets
healthy, that they read thesafety warnings on the drugs
that they're handing out, likecandy?
(12:39):
But I bet, I bet they don't.
And that ad Applequil, it wasquick acting.
So guess what?
You can give your pet cancereven faster.
SPEAKER_01 (12:48):
Oh, yes, let's let's let's tell the truth.
Would you like to give your dogcancer super fast?
We've got the answer for youright here.
Yeah, I so the importantwarnings, it's right there in
the important warnings.
Um, Apoquil can also suppressimmune response, making
infections more likely or harderto control.
(13:09):
And then it does also say itinhibits the genus kinase or the
JAC enzymes, um, which canaffect your immune system.
And it has been observed in dogstreated with apoquil lymphoma
and other cancers.
SPEAKER_02 (13:29):
Right.
So why would you risk that?
I mean, is that worth not havingyour dog itch, especially when
we we tell people and peoplelisten to us that if you change
the diet, that that can help andyou stop vaccinating as much and
you and you don't use the thenext guard and brevecto, these
(13:49):
lean tick products, which areshown to cause uh itching too.
So if you're using thoseproducts, your pet's likely to
itch more.
So this is better.
You risk cancer.
I mean, you're you're puttingyour pet's life on the line.
I mean, how would you that?
Or who would do that?
But the other thing is thisdrug, when it first came out,
(14:12):
one of the big marketing thingswas not a steroid.
So they kind of made, you know,people get a little afraid.
Oh, I don't want to do steroids.
I'm I'm worried about thatprednisone.
I can tell you prednisone is waysafer than this.
Not that I would use it longterm for itching, but if I had
to do something short term, likesay a pet's just they're digging
holes in their skin, they're soitchy, and we just need to give
(14:36):
them a chance to rest and andget some other things on board
and make some changes, maybechange the diet and all that.
I'd do two weeks of prednisonebefore I'd ever do anything like
Apical because prednisone doeshave its own side effects, but a
couple of weeks, it's not goingto give your pet cancer because
I've been doing that for years,just short term, just to give
(14:57):
some temporary relief, you know,um, anti-inflammatory relief.
Um, prednisone is way safer, butthey make people afraid of that.
And it's the fear thing, theymake people afraid of the
prednisone.
But guess what?
We got another alternativethat's even more toxic, but you
don't have to be afraid of thatone.
Isn't that crazy?
They make people afraid of thething that's not as dangerous,
(15:20):
and they give them somethingelse and tell them they don't
have to be afraid of it, eventhough the side effects are way
worse.
How does that happen?
I just don't I just don't getit.
SPEAKER_01 (15:30):
You know, and I was looking in like some of these
drugs, you know, what do theydo?
Right.
So the uh quarter uh steroidsand stuff like that, and
primnisone's in that arena, buthydrocortisone is in there, but
there's also uh cytotoxic drugs,so those are chemotherapy
(15:51):
agents, and then there's alsohow do you say this calcinurine
uh inhibitors, calcinurin, um,and then the jack inhibitors,
what we were just talking about,like apoplequill.
And so it was saying in a lot ofthese, it blocks the T cell
activation, the T cell.
(16:12):
So I'm like, is that the killerT cells?
Is that the cells that actuallykill the cancer cells?
Is that why we we see in thesetypes of drugs?
Because they're blocking the Tcell activation.
SPEAKER_02 (16:26):
Yeah, they're blocking the actual the way that
the reason they stop the itchingbecause itching is an immune
response.
It's the body is reacting tosomething.
And anything that just can shutoff itching, it's it's stopping
the immune system from acting.
And they're like you're saying,there's different mechanisms.
All the different drugs that dothat have different mechanisms
of of action.
They're affecting a differentpart of the immune system.
(16:48):
But yeah, they're stopping thebody from functioning properly
and eliminating abnormal cellslike cancer cells.
And you know, the body hasdefense mechanisms to deal with
toxins and you know, unwantedbacteria or you know, things,
foreign bodies, foreign thingsthat come into the body and
(17:08):
abnormal cells like cancercells.
The body has mechanisms forcleaning them up.
If you shut down thosemechanisms, sure, then they can
just take hold and grow.
SPEAKER_01 (17:17):
So I remember, you know, Neely saying, because she
would see these dogs, right?
That and and you've seen them,where their hair, right, has
totally fallen out a lot oftimes underneath the body,
right?
No hair, and their skin's black.
And she would say, in almostevery single one of these dogs
(17:37):
that she saw, what she found outwas that these dogs all were on
some type of steroid, had beenon a steroid, and then they got
put on apoquil.
And then, um, so she would seethis, and she's she did say that
then then these dogs also a lotof them had cancer.
(18:01):
And when you do some research onthis, it says combining multiple
immunosuppressants like apoquiland steroids plus cyclosporin
greatly increases seriousinfections and cancers in dogs.
SPEAKER_02 (18:18):
Yeah, and I see that done all the time, apical and
steroids, even though they, youknow, will tell people, you
know, that apical is better andyou don't want to use the
steroids, they'll still dosteroids in the short term.
So they just give this big, youknow, blast of it.
And and even prednisone, youknow, if it's a long-term
(18:38):
treatment, I've seen a lot ofthose pets.
So this is way before likeapical was even a thing, and
pets would be put on steroidsfor months and months and
months, those pets would getcancer too.
A couple weeks, they're usuallyokay because you're alleviating
the stress and allowing the skinto heal.
But at the same time, you'reyou're starting other things,
you're changing the diet, you'redoing herbs, you're doing things
(19:00):
to help treat the skin, and thenyou can you can wean them off.
But and why start them onmultiple?
You know, if you're gonna startthem on one on a medication to
suppress the immune system,doesn't it make sense to start
that one and see if it worksbefore you start stacking two or
three of them?
But no, I see them start two orthree at the same time because
(19:20):
we need to even cancer fastbecause they make a lot of money
selling chemotherapy.
You know, cynical these days?
SPEAKER_01 (19:27):
It's okay.
It's okay.
I'm right there with you.
I am I'm right there with you.
I just think that okay, you haveto, you guys, you have to think
of it like this.
Let what what is your job?
Not you, Dr.
JC, but just talking to ourlisteners.
So let's think about this.
What is the job that supportsyou, right?
(19:50):
Pays your house payment, feedsyour kids, puts gas in your car.
Okay.
Now, let's say that some sort ofinformation came out that you
know about, not everybody knowsabout it, but you know about it.
And if that information got out,that the job that you do somehow
(20:17):
is either harming theenvironment or the chemicals
that are in your plant orharming, you know, wildlife or
whatever.
Let's just say that that gotout.
Would you would you want to blowthe whistle?
Would you really still um keepyour mouth shut?
(20:41):
Or would you hope like hell thatthat information never got out
because it would affect yourincome, it would totally affect
your way of life, it wouldaffect your income.
Would you just somehow justifyit in your mind?
The fact that you don't look atit, you don't do the research,
(21:01):
you act like it doesn't existbecause it would affect your
income, it would affect the wayyou eat.
What would you do?
And because you know, you thinkabout it, we're not talking,
we're talking about millions andmillions, if not billions, of
(21:25):
dollars in the pet food industryalone.
So they don't really want tolook at that, they don't really
want to look at that and say,well, you know, this kind of
food really does cause itchingin the pets, and I could just
get them off that food.
But if you got them off thatfood and that food happens to be
(21:47):
the food that you sell, thatkibble, that prescription diet,
are you really gonna do that?
Or are you just gonna put themon something?
Because if you if you said go toa raw diet, you don't sell a raw
diet, you're losing income.
Okay.
Now, if you go to an applequill, which causes cancer,
right, you aren't gonna lose anymoney actually, you're gonna
(22:09):
make money.
Right.
So I just I just think that thatthere it's it's got to be this
massive compartmentalization,right?
Because I can't believe thateverybody out there likes to
just make people empathy.
They just don't want to beinconvenienced in their own
(22:30):
lives, they don't want to haveto find a new way to make money,
right?
SPEAKER_02 (22:36):
And you know, in the and the vets, the medical
professionals, you know, thiswhole thing called standard of
care.
So the AVMA says this is anFDA-approved drug, this Apple
quil, so it's okay to use it.
So then they're like, Well, theAVMA says it's okay.
There's these safety warnings,but you know, they say it's okay
and it's standard of care.
(22:56):
So I can't get in trouble butfor using it.
Even if it harms my patients, Ican't get sued.
You know, I mean, I guess theycould get sued, but they've got
a pretty strong stance if it'sconsidered standard of care and
it's and it's FDA approved andall that.
So they feel that something's ifsomething is considered standard
(23:17):
of care, they feel the safetynet, and then it's okay, even
though the warnings say allthese side effects.
I don't know what, I don't knowhow they justify that to the
vets.
Like, so if I I I used to grillthe the pharmaceutical reps that
would come in to visit me, andeventually they didn't come in
(23:39):
anymore.
Because all as they have isbeauty, no fun because because
it became a game.
Once I sell the game, you know,they just come in with their
script and they sell this stuffand they tell you how to sell it
based on fear and how much moneyyou're gonna make and all this
stuff.
And my game was to ask themquestions till they couldn't
answer them because they allthey have is a script, yet it's
(24:01):
what these pharmaceutical repssay that dictates how the vets
treat their patients.
That's who's deciding your petscare when you go into the vet.
It's what they've been told bythe pharmaceutical rep who comes
in and buys them lunch and says,Okay, you just sell this and you
give this drug for this thing,and look at this apple quill,
it's quick acting and now it'schewable, so it's easier to get
(24:23):
it in them.
I doubt that they read thoseadverse effects, but they print
them out there so that they'rethere, so they can't say that
you didn't know, and then thenyou know they they the companies
can put it on the vets, but thenthe vets are let off the hook
because it's standard of careand the poor pets are left with
(24:44):
cancer.
It's a mess-up system.
It is.
SPEAKER_01 (24:48):
If if you do a search of what standard of care
is, okay, here's what it saysthe degree of care, skill, and
judgment that reasonably skilledprofessionals in similar
circumstances would exercise.
Um, so they say in humanmedicine, it's what a doctor
(25:08):
with similar training would dofor a similar patient.
And in veterinary medicine, whata competent okay, veterinarian
would do for a similar animalunder similar circumstances.
But here's the key feature ofthat reasonable and appropriate.
It says it's not the bestpossible care, but what is
(25:34):
considered reasonable under thecircumstances.
It's not the reasonable andappropriate, okay.
Reasonable and appropriate, it'snot the best possible care.
It doesn't even have to makethem better, just reasonable and
appropriate.
But think about this, Dr.
Jason.
If we took that and we appliedit to what happened in COVID,
(25:57):
okay, what a doctor with similartraining would do for a similar
patient.
So Dr.
Fauci was the one that was, youknow, the mouthpiece.
He doesn't even see patients,he's never seen a patient.
And what kind of doctor is heanyway?
Well, I don't even know.
Every doctor was was going inlockstep.
(26:20):
In lockstep.
You couldn't even, and here'sthe other thing: if we ever
enter into a place like thisagain, where companies because
hospitals are a company, okay,are greatly incentivized, then
(26:41):
you have censorship mixed withthat.
So somebody's greatlyincentivized, and then there's
censorship.
Don't you think there's aproblem there, guys?
I mean, just one of those wouldbe bad, but let's combine the
two, shall we?
We're gonna pay you great dealsof money to say this, and we're
(27:05):
gonna censor anybody that goesagainst you.
Now, I don't know why anybodythought that was a good idea.
Right.
But that's exactly whathappened.
SPEAKER_02 (27:18):
Mm-hmm.
It's probably that same thing inthe vet vet profession.
I mean, I don't know who who isgetting the uh the big payoffs,
but I'm sure the same thing ishappening.
There's vets.
Well, it probably happens atthese at the continuing
education meetings, you know,where they their speakers, and
(27:39):
the speakers typically the talksat the big meetings are
sponsored by either like you goto a nutrition lecture, it's
going to be sponsored by Hillsor Royal Canaan or Purina.
And bottom line is they'repromoting one of their foods.
So are they paying that speakera little kickback to promote
their food?
(27:59):
Bet they are, and it's the samething.
All of those, all of those bigmeetings, those like the AVMA
and you know, most of like thestate associations, they're all
sponsored by these big drugcompanies and the food
companies.
And they buy lunches and dinnersand they put on entertainment,
but all of the talks aresponsored by one of these big
companies.
(28:19):
And bottom line is it'spromoting their products.
I mean, they they make it soundlike they're reporting research
and that they're reportingscience, but it's really just a
big marketing thing.
That's all it really is, it'snot education at all.
SPEAKER_01 (28:34):
Yeah, I was I was looking up um why so many vets
commit suicide.
I was like, why?
And and and and it it's quiteinteresting, actually.
Um, so it says thatveterinarians' experience um has
(28:57):
one of the highest suicide ratesamong professions, often
exceeding that of the generalpopulation.
And then because there's so manymental health stressors, they
say, in this profession, right?
They got long hours, heavyworkloads, and the emotional
(29:17):
exhaustion from caring for sickanimals, right?
Because why do people go to thevet most of the time?
Because their animals are sick,and then they say, you know,
they have this hugeresponsibility, life and death
decisions for animals, which areum, you know, often under you
know certain timelines andregulations.
(29:40):
And so this impact of euthanasiaas well, they say, is really um
linked to this moral distress,grief, and depression in the
vets.
So I often wonder, Dr.
Jasek, I mean, think about this.
You go to vet school, you comeout, you got 150.
To$250,000 in debt, you go towork for a clinic and you're not
(30:05):
making, you know, that kind ofmoney.
I mean, if you're a greatsurgeon, maybe you do, but
you've got these high workloads,you see a lot of sick animals.
Don't you think that more vets,or doesn't it seem like more
vets would be saying, what thehell is wrong?
It can't be that these animalsjust are sick.
(30:29):
It can't be that all theseanimals just need to die.
Isn't there a better way?
I mean, don't you think thatsomehow they they would say,
okay.
And and I don't know, maybe theyjust feel trapped.
SPEAKER_02 (30:44):
Maybe I think they know, I think they know deep in
their heart.
Because they think I thinkanybody that goes to vet school
really truly goes because theywant to help the animals.
Because you don't go to vetschool to be rich.
You know, you can make a goodliving, but if you're Dr.
SPEAKER_01 (30:59):
Morty, Dr.
Morty's pet food, because youget the seizure.
But he's in the food business.
SPEAKER_02 (31:06):
Um but I think that I think they start out well
intentioned, but then you know,they get taught this bill of
goods and and how to do allthese, you know, just do all
these pharmaceuticals, and theygotta see.
I mean, that's when I woke up.
I'm like, this isn't working.
Like I've learned all thisstuff.
This isn't helping pets.
I mean, I saw it right before myeyes.
(31:27):
That's why I changed.
So every vet has to see that,but maybe they just don't know
how to break out of it.
So, like you said, they feeltrapped, and that's feeling
traps a really tough positionwith so many clinics now being
corporate, and they got a goodsalary, they got this debt,
maybe they have a young familyto support.
It it can be hard.
(31:48):
Yet uh part of them, I thinkthey just know they're selling
their soul and they're not doingwhat's in the best interest of
the animals, and that's why theyend up, you know, killing
themselves, because they justdon't, they just don't see a way
out.
But there, but there is a wayout, you know, they can practice
differently.
They they just they just don'tsee it, they just don't know
(32:11):
what that path is.
By the time they get out of thatschool, they're so indoctrinated
that they just don't see anotherpath.
That's what I want to try to do.
I want to shine a flashlight onthe other path.
SPEAKER_01 (32:22):
That's right.
Because you have created anotherpath.
You have created another path.
And Dr.
Jasic, it's not as if you'vebeen hiding in a corner.
We talk about this stuff on onthe on the podcast all the time.
You go out and you give talks,and and and why do I say that?
(32:42):
Because I'm saying a I feelthat, and correct me if I'm
wrong, that a lot of vets worrythat they're gonna lose their
license.
Right.
You haven't had your licenseyanked, and furthermore, I've
heard you say, take my license.
I don't need it to do what Iknow I can do to help pets.
SPEAKER_03 (33:02):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (33:04):
Right, there is another way you can create a
great lifestyle in helping pets.
And that is why I'm so excitedabout you know these things that
these clinics that you'relooking at creating.
Um, and if there are any vetsout there, if there are any vets
(33:28):
out there that are listening, ifyou have somebody in your family
that's currently in vet school,just got out of vet school, um
it's gonna be it, it it it itthey're in a they're in a
captured environment for sure.
There, there is no way uh otherthan that because they they have
quotas, right?
(33:49):
You bring in a you you bring inan um uh ultrasound.
I I've seen it, our daughter'sbet, I've seen you know what
they do inside these clinics.
You bring in an ultrasoundmachine, now you've got to get
the people to use it because thedarn thing's expensive, gotta
pay for it, right?
Right.
Um, so if you think you don'thave quotas, if you think
(34:12):
there's not some sort offinancial incentive incentive to
do things that maybe you don'tneed to do, that that definitely
are gonna put our pet parents inhardship, financial hardship,
emotional hardship, andcertainly a lot of it, not even
good for the pet, right?
SPEAKER_02 (34:33):
Totally different way, and they're definitely paid
on production.
I mean, the the vets, like partof their salary is a percentage
of what they make.
They're they're making they'rebaking a commission and they
have monthly quotas to make.
And so if a vet needs to makegenerate, they have to they're
some of them are obligated togenerate a certain amount of
(34:56):
money for the clinic, like everymonth.
And if they don't, they have topay that money back.
They don't get a bonus and thenthey have to pay the money back.
So if you go in on the last dayof the month and they haven't
met their quota yet, I get getthe upsell so that they can meet
their quota, or they're gettingready to go on vacation.
They need a little extra money.
(35:16):
Well, you know, they sell a fewextra things, then they get a
little, a little, you know,healthier paycheck that month,
and then they can go on a nicervacation.
So it's, you know, I it's it'dbe easy to get wrapped into
that.
And that's why they do it, youknow.
And then the vets maybe competewith each other.
How much did you make this?
How much and that sadly, that'swhat practice success becomes.
(35:38):
Like you go to these bigmeetings and they also have
practice management lectureswhere they because because we
have no business training.
Vets don't get any businesstraining.
You go out and you get thesepractice management lectures,
and practice success, it's allabout the money.
You never I've never once sat ina practice management lecture
where it said, How do you trackthe health of your patients?
(36:00):
Do you track how many healthypatients, how many pets got
better, how many, you know,successful skin treatments you
had?
They never tell you to trackthose statistics.
The only thing they teach you totrack is the bottom line.
And yeah, you're in business.
So yes, you got to look at thenumbers, but you're in the
business of healing.
And if you're not tracking howsuccessful you are as a healer,
(36:24):
then all you're doing is ismoney.
And I think that's where thevets end up feeling like they're
selling their souls becausethey're not healers anymore.
They go to vet school wanting tobe healers and they end up as
drug pushers.
That's not why they went.
So they just feel trapped anddoesn't feel rewarding, and they
(36:45):
just don't know how to dodifferent, they just don't know
the way out and they paid allthis money, or even if mom and
dad paid for it, well, they'llyou know, they'll be
disappointed in me if I don'tkeep this career, but they're
miserable.
And you still got the debt.
SPEAKER_01 (37:00):
You got the debt.
I got the debt.
Yep, you got the debt, and soyou gotta I I would just
encourage you guys to again, ifyou know anybody that is in vet
school that has just come out ofvet school, maybe they've been
at you know, a vet for a while,and you could just see the light
has gone out in their eyes.
(37:22):
You it would really, reallybehoove them and you to tell
them about Dr.
J-Z and to have a conversation,have them reach out to me.
SPEAKER_02 (37:30):
I'm happy to talk to any of them, really.
SPEAKER_01 (37:32):
Yeah, because it is a huge industry, but look, we
all love pets.
We all love our pets.
We want our pets to be healthy,and we have got to find a
different way to do it, right?
And um, there is a way Dr.
J-Z has done it, and it justtakes somebody standing behind
(37:54):
you saying, hey, this fear isbaseless, right?
SPEAKER_02 (37:59):
And and you know, the amazing thing is I'm
actually able to make a livingdoing it too.
You know, like they teach thebest, like, well, you you got to
sell all these products uh inorder to make a living.
Well, I came full circle and Igot people coming in to see me
because I'm not doing all thatstuff.
So there's plenty of people thatwant that kind of care.
(38:20):
And you can do Chinese medicine,you can do acupuncture, you can
do chiropractic.
There's so many things you cando to help pets that is not
about just pushing a bunch ofdrugs into them.
And if you do the right businessplan, you can have a very nice
income and not stress and youenjoy it, and you enjoy it.
You don't have to be, you know,medical professionals don't have
(38:42):
to feel stressed and trapped.
You can actually practice in away that is really enjoyable.
SPEAKER_01 (38:47):
Yeah.
So get over to a havet.com.
That's ah vet.com.
That's where dr jace gives.
She can um talk to you, do aconsultation, uh, whether that's
for you as a vet, uh, aspiringvet, and a veteran vet, um, or
(39:08):
whether that's for your pet.
You can get over to ah vet.com.
And listen, get your dog on aspecies-appropriate diet.
Um, I just don't, uh, there isnothing good about kibble.
Uh, cooked is gonna besubstandard.
I mean, raw is the top of thechain, guys.
It is what your animals werecreated to eat.
(39:31):
Um, if bacteria, if the bigbacteria boogeyman was gonna get
the dogs, well, in my 25 years,I think I would have seen it.
You know, Dr.
Jesse, I just haven't seen it.
Me either.
I don't know where it is.
I don't know where it is either.
And I will say this that therules and laws around producing
(39:51):
the raw diets are so much morestringent today than they were
25 years ago.
Okay.
And I certainly didn't see itthen.
I darn sure don't see it now.
So that is a that is just youcan just toss that right out the
door.
Toss it right out the door.
And I would challenge your bets.
I would challenge your bets.
Why is my dog itching?
(40:13):
I I gosh, I wish you guys wouldjust send me all the reasons
that they say your dog itches.
Well, my dog's allergic.
Okay, well, okay, I see thathe's itching, but what is
causing it?
unknown (40:24):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (40:24):
Well, it says whatever.
I mean, we can help.
We can help.
And and we are in the true pethealth business.
We care about how your dog feelsand looks.
Our dogs eat raw, our dogs havebeen on raw.
We have a huge body of evidence.
Um, a huge body of evidence.
(40:45):
So we'll talk to you.
It's free.
It's free to talk to us, and wecan certainly help you get
started on a species appropriatediet.
Brian is right there.
He's in the chat.
Uh, you can sign up for a freeconsultation.
We will help you get your dogfeeling and looking better
today.
Just get over to RobDogfoodandCompany.com.
Got lots of products uh becauseyou know, your pet's health is
(41:09):
our business.
And what, Dr.
JC?
Our friends don't let friendsfeed kibble, y'all.
That's right.
We'll see you soon, everybody.
Bye.
Bye.
Oh, snap, snap, snap.
SPEAKER_00 (41:20):
Find out how you can start your dog on the road to
health and longevity.
Go to rawdogfoodandcompany.comwhere friends don't let friends
feed kibble and where your pet'shealth is our business.
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