September 4, 2025 • 46 mins
,Dr. Judy Jasek and DeDe Murcer Moffett expose the misleading veterinary practices causing pet parents to unnecessarily restrict protein and fat in their dogs' diets while ignoring the real culprits behind health issues.
• The smell of kibble plants and pet food stores reveals the truth about processed pet foods
• Perianal fistulas are often treated with immunosuppressants when natural anti-inflammatory approaches could be more effective
• Misdiagnosis of pancreatitis has become common with the introduction of quick bedside tests
• Raw animal fat does not cause pancreatitis - processed treats with sugars and artificial ingredients are more likely culprits
• Most raw diets contain only 14-18% protein, not the 80% many assume
• Elevated kidney values in raw-fed dogs are often normal variations or caused by temporary dehydration
• Phosphorus levels are a better indicator of kidney function than BUN and creatinine alone
• Popular treats labeled "no artificial ingredients" often contain problematic additives like brown sugar, salt and "natural smoke flavor"
• The healthcare system puts both humans and animals into diagnostic boxes rather than addressing root causes
Email us at info@rawdogfoodandcompany.com with your questions for the podcast, because your pet's health is our business.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Oh snap.
Well, hello Raw Feeders.
I'm Deedee Mercer-Moffitt, CEOof Raw Dog Food and Company.
We are Pets, Health is ourbusiness and we're friends, like
my friend, Dr Judy Jasekextraordinary, she doesn't let
people feed kibble.
Right, Dr Jasek?
Come on.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
No, not ever, Not even the good ones, not even
with a topper arm.
No, not, not ever, not even thegood ones.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Not even with a topper arm.
You know, I I think I've saidthis before, but I I walked into
a pet food store a couple ofdays ago Cause I was looking for
a bed for laws for one of ourcars and, um, I cannot stand the
smell in there.
I cannot, it just makes me gag,makes me gag.
You can literally smell theprocessed foods in a pet food
(00:53):
store.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
It's disgusting to me it's really disgusting.
You know, we have out hereoutside of Nashville just see
just east of Nashville on I-40,which kind of a main interstate.
We have a Royal Canaan planthere and always reminds me of
the Purina plant there, I-70outside of Denver, you know,
remember driving by that and howbad it stinks, and the Royal
(01:17):
Canaan plants, of course, thesame way.
It's like I always drive bylike.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Think about this.
I mean all of these Purinaplants, and it would be
interesting to know how manythere are, because there seem to
be one in every state, a giantPurina plant.
So how many dogs out there areeating bad food?
Speaker 2 (01:46):
A ton, a ton the majority of them, sadly.
I mean, what percentage of petsdo you and I actually influence
?
Sadly, it's probably a very,very small percentage.
I mean, it's kind of our wholeworld.
So it's easy to feel like youknow we're affecting a bigger
part of the population, but whenit comes to all the I don't
(02:10):
know how many pets there are 300million or something it's a lot
of pets.
In in the country there's a lotof pets.
Maybe it's not that many.
I think there's 300 millionpeople but anyway there's a lot,
millions and millions and wejust touch a small percentage of
that.
And yeah, you see those bigplants and you know, and you
(02:30):
know I always wondered, you knowthey're in Denver.
It's like kind of right thereby stockyards and stuff and it's
like, well, how convenientthey're just putting all the
dead carcasses and everything.
Just let's throw them in thehopper there at the Prina plant
and cook them up and grind theminto dog food.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
People don't believe that though, dr Jasek.
Even if we tell them they don'tbelieve that, they're like yeah
, that doesn't happen.
I'm like well, it damn suredoes.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
But okay, you know you know, go go to that Prina
plant.
Let's see if they'd even letyou peek inside.
I bet they don't.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Okay.
So I just did a question tochat GPT on how many dogs are in
the U?
S.
According to trusted housesitters, uh, there are 89.7
million dogs in the U?
S as of 2024.
Um, and the AVMA estimatesbetween 83.7 and 88.9.
(03:28):
So let's just say, you knowwhatever, there are at least 85
million dogs.
80, 85 million.
Yeah, holy cow, holy cow.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
That's a lot.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
That's why.
That's why there are perinaplants everywhere.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
It's crazy.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
And big stores like PetSmart and Petco, and all
those with aisles and aisles andaisles of stacks and stacks of
that stinky food.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Yeah, gross.
Okay, speaking of gross, notreally gross, but we want to
talk a little bit today aboutperianal fistulas.
Yeah, that's so gross.
Okay, can you kind of explain?
Obviously we're talking aboutthe anal area.
Why do they use the wordperianal?
(04:19):
What does that mean?
Peri?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Peri means around or in the area of.
So it's basically just in thearea around the anus.
Gotcha, another way it's used,but nothing is coming to me.
But yeah, it's in the area ofthe anus, so like around the
anus.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
So we know some people that are perianal, that
their, that their head isperianal.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Yeah, or or directly in but, All right, I digress.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Okay, so a fistula?
Uh, this is around the anusarea, but then there's the
fistula.
What is a fistula?
Speaker 2 (05:07):
so fistula, it's like we call it a draining tract in
kind of in medicine, but it'sbasically like an opening.
But they can go in like acouple, like in a big dog.
German shepherds seem to be alittle predisposed to this, not
german shepherds like yours thatare healthy but unhealthy.
German shepherds seem to be alittle predisposed to this, not
German Shepherds like yours thatare healthy but unhealthy.
German Shepherds that are, youknow, fed, killed and
(05:28):
over-vaccinated, and all thatbecause it's I think they're,
they're like a cause but like adisruption in the immune system.
But we can talk more about that.
But anyway it's, it's like a,it's like an opening that goes
in.
But what's weird about?
So they'll see a little soreand it's not the anal gland.
So the anal glands, that arethese little sacks on either
side of the anus.
(05:48):
It's not that it will be on theoutside of that, it's not
directly related to the analsack and you'll see this little
sore open up, but then it's likethe opening can go in there,
sometimes a couple of inches,and then it gets like this
lining on the inside and they'rereally hard to heal and they
tend to respond toimmunosuppressive treatments.
(06:12):
So it seems to be like a youknow some sort of aberration of
the immune system or autoimmuneor or something like that.
I mean, nobody really knowswhat causes them, but they show
up and they can be really hardto treat.
It's really hard to get them toclear up, but the foundation
for treating them is the same.
(06:33):
We reduce inflammation byimproving the diet and doing
like anti-inflammatory herbs,herbs that help reduce
inflammation and like local likeirrigation, like irrigating
them with saline and stuff likethat.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
So if you, if you, had a client that was a raw
feeder, has been a raw feederfor many years, but now their
dog is being diagnosed withperianal fistula, would you be
(07:14):
looking at what kind of proteinsthey're feeding and suggesting
that they switch up theirproteins?
Speaker 2 (07:22):
No, probably not.
In a word, no, probablywouldn't be doing that.
They're probably saying it'slike a food allergy, or cause.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
They don't know what causes it.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
We really don't know, they kind of.
I've seen them, they can kindof show up out of nowhere, um
it's.
It's very hard to connect thedots.
But then I would also wonder,is this dog had any vaccines?
You know anything like thatthat could have disrupted the
immune system?
But it is about reducinginflammation.
(07:52):
So you know, I would doanti-inflammatory herbs and like
again, like local, you knowirrigation, like I'm.
I like I've done a lot withozone, like irrigating,
something like that with likeozonated saline or something
where you're oxygenating thearea.
You're just trying to get thetissue they're really, really
healthy because they do.
(08:13):
They get this lining in them,that and they it can be really
hard to get them to heal.
But no, I would not beisolating proteins.
I would be focusing on makingsure the dog's on an
appropriately balanced species,appropriate raw diet.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
That's a mouthful.
Yeah, it does seem that thisyou know we need to change up
the proteins is a vet just sortof reaching for whatever they
can.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
They don't know what to do.
They probably put the dog onantibiotics too, or recommend it
because that's the other thingthey do when they don't know
what to do.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So in order to kind of irrigatethat area, is that something
that a pet parent can dothemselves?
They could get the equipmentand then they could get the
stuff from you, or how wouldthey go about doing that?
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Yeah, cause all this they need to do.
I mean, they could evenprobably do it with something
like distilled water, cause it'snot sterile, right, like if
you're doing giving a pet fluidslike they're dehydrated, like
Lazy Liz with the vomiting andall that that you have to give
like sterile fluids.
But this is not sterile, it'sopen to the outside, so you
(09:37):
could, um, I was just talking toa client the other day,
actually this morning, her, thedoc, has a tumor that's opened
up, it's got a little hole in it, and I said, go buy some
contact lens saline, you know,because it's just saline Um
doesn't have to be sterile andyou can get syringes.
You can buy syringes on Amazonthese days, you can get them all
over the place.
(09:58):
Or go to your feed store andget a syringe, just put some of
that in there and then just kindof shoot it in there.
It's the it's.
It's not so much what you'reputting in there, it's this
physical like irrigation,keeping it clean, keeping the
tissues in there.
I don't recommend putting likea strong disinfectant like
betadine or something like thatin there, but irrigating it.
(10:21):
And then, you know, I I do a lotwith you know, with Chinese
herbs, um, to help reduceinflammation.
But things that they could dowould be things like turmeric.
Turmeric's a good natural, likegood anti-inflammatory.
This is a supplement that youknow taking it in the hole, but
(10:41):
um, but that sort of thing, andyou know, look also.
Look at the pet's environment.
Is there anything new?
Even new bedding?
You know you mentioned beds.
Sometimes there's chemicals onbedding.
They put, you know, flameretardants on that's furniture.
I mean everything in our worldum could have a chemical on it.
(11:03):
So is there anything new in thedog's environment?
Make sure they're feeding in,you know, non-plastic bowls.
You know, most likely stainlesssteel glasses Okay, but I never
use glass because it breaks.
So, um, but stainless steel,make sure there's nothing new
that the dog um could bereacting to.
(11:23):
Even trying something like someCBD from an anti-inflammatory
perspective, you know could help.
But I would start with reallymaking sure they're really
nailing the nutrition and andbalancing that out.
Make sure they're not slippingin some little.
(11:43):
Sometimes you know they'll slipin some little.
Sometimes you know they'll slipin some little extra treats or
give the kibble now and then.
Or you know, if the dog's beenvaccinated, that could could be
a contributing cause.
But also add in things likealgae, like the phyto
phytosynergy from adored bees,mushrooms, like a good mushroom
blends.
These are all just adding extranutrition and helping to
(12:07):
balance out the immune system.
Um, I would start there.
I would not be doingantibiotics, it's not a
bacterial thing at all, um, andI would continue to rotate
proteins and make sure thattheir diet is, you know, is
super well balanced and then, ifit's not healing, like I said,
we, we do stuff like withChinese herbal blends and stuff
(12:27):
like that.
That can also help.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
So you just said something very important,
because typically they're goingto put them on a cycle cyclose
support.
How do you say that?
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Oh, cyclosporine yeah .
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Suppressive Yep.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Yeah, and so would you be in favor of an
immunosuppressant for that, notinitially, if they get really
bad.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
I mean, I have seen them respond to
immunosuppressive drugs.
They do respond to cyclosporineor prednisone.
But I would try because usuallythey're not problematic,
meaning not painful, like youknow, and it's not like
something that'slife-threatening if you don't
get it to resolve.
If you have an autoimmuneanemia or something that's
(13:20):
life-threatening, you have toput those dogs on
immunosuppressive drugs to getthat to stop and rebuild, start
rebuilding their blood, and thenyou work on balancing the body.
But you don't really need thatkind of emergency intervention
here.
I would work on balancing thebody first.
If symptomatically it becomeslike painful or irritating or
(13:43):
you know, sometimes the dogsscoot their butts a lot and you
know becomes a problem thenmaybe for the short term to get
it under control.
But remember, it's not treatinganything.
All this doing is making itlook better temporarily.
So you're better off working onbalancing off the body and
seeing if the body can get itresolved rather than, um, you
(14:06):
know, just going right for theimmunosuppressive drugs, cause
there's just going to prolongthe healing in the long run.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Gotcha, gotcha.
Okay, good advice, good advice.
And if your dog has been umdiagnosed with a perianal that's
around the anal fistula, youmight want to get a second
opinion about how to treat thatand work with Dr Judy Jasik at
ahavetcom.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
There's also such a thing as a perianal hernia,
which is where the muscles likeout away from it, kind of break
open, and then that's usuallysurgical because you got to go
tuck them back in.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Yikes.
Okay, so I have anotherquestion for you.
So a lot of times, dr Jasek,when we hear the word
pancreatitis, right.
So someone says my dog haspancreatitis, I need a low fat
option, or I need low protein,right, low fat, let me low
proteins on my next question.
But low fat option?
Well, most of the foods areready in an accurate or you know
(15:21):
a fat ratio.
We're not talking about a 20,30% fat ratio in these blends.
So here's what we do todetermine what's going on.
We don't just take that at facevalue because we get so much of
this right, the pancreatitis.
(15:43):
So first I want to ask you howdo you think that?
Well, first of all, let me askyou this Do you think that
pancreatitis in dogs getsmisdiagnosed?
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Yes, All the time, especially recently, I would say
it didn't used to, but I wouldsay in recent years because
they're coming out with likethese little slight bedside snap
tests in the clinic.
You know just this quick littlepancreatitis, yes or no tests.
And so, yes, I do think it'sbeing misdiagnosed.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Okay, so what we do is we start asking the questions
.
Now.
Some pet parents don't like it,right, they just want okay,
tell me, what blend is low fat?
Well, what you're feeding is ispretty low fat, right.
Eight to ten percent, it'spretty normal.
We don't need it any lower thanthat.
Even 12 can be fine.
(16:43):
And you and I don't look at rawfat, raw animal fat, as a cause
of pancreatitis.
Okay, so we started askingthese questions.
Now, one of the questions thatI always ask is one how did they
determine that?
And they will say I always askis one how did they determine
(17:05):
that?
And they will say oh well, theydid a blood test, okay, well,
the second thing that we ask istell us what the symptoms?
Uh, well, the second thing weask are what else is going into
the diet, okay, besides raw?
Because people will say thisthey'll say well, my dog is been
purely on raw for X amount ofyears.
(17:27):
There's quite obviously asituation where we can advise,
recommend to help the petparents change something so that
they don't have to get on theselow fat, because we don't think
that's a great option, and sothat they don't get on
medication.
All right, this is what thesymptoms were, and then I'm
(17:52):
going to tell you what else wasin the diet.
But here's the symptomsrestlessness, lethargy, vomiting
, loss of appetite.
And then then the pet parentgoes on to explain this that the
dog would erratically runaround the house and then
randomly flop on her back andthen be doing the down dog
(18:12):
stretch over and over again, aswell as having a hunchback when
running around, and they saidthat this would last for hours
and then she would be verylethargic.
And so the vet determined thatshe had a fever and a grade one
heart murmur.
They ran blood work and resultsconcluded pancreatitis.
(18:34):
And they said that this dog hadthe symptoms of what I just
explained several times in thesummer, but the vet could not
determine anything at the time,and then she would go back to
normal and then this wouldhappen again.
Any thoughts on thatinformation?
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Yeah, I mean it definitely sounds like the dog's
uncomfortable for some reason.
Um, and that can be hard todetermine because, I will say so
, I think the vet you knowjumped on the pancreatic and
pancreatitis thing because ofthe pain, assuming it's
abdominal pain.
And I always like to know whatblood tests they run, because
(19:22):
the blood tests are not all thataccurate in my experience in
diagnosing pancreatitis.
But back pain will cause verysimilar symptoms.
If you're looking at just painsymptoms, this discomfort, so
this downward dog thing, I thinkthat can be a sign of
discomfort.
You know the dog definitely isshowing some signs of discomfort
(19:44):
.
But that can happen, you know,along the back, with back spasms
and things like that and it'sthe same area of the body,
spasms and things like that andit's the same area of the body.
So it can be hard to determine.
Lethargy can be pain.
You know the dog doesn't feellike doing anything because when
it does things it hurts.
It hurts to move around.
So I always have todifferentiate.
Is the dog not wanting to do asmuch because it's in pain?
(20:07):
So you have to kind of rule outthose other things.
Pain, so you have to kind ofrule out those other things
Vomiting.
I always ask how much or howoften is the dog vomiting?
Because earlier on in my career, when we diagnosed pancreatitis
and what I came to learn is andI still think this is true
pancreatitis really isdefinitively diagnosed by an
(20:29):
ultrasound.
You look at the pancreas andyou see it's swollen.
Looking at pancreatic enzymesin the blood and some of this
newer testing they have, I don'tthink is definitive for a true
pancreatitis, because the dogsthat we used to call
pancreatitis, these dogs couldhold down nothing.
They were vomiting multipletimes an hour.
(20:50):
These dogs could hold downnothing.
They were vomiting multipletimes an hour.
You had to hold them completelyoff of anything early for like
72 hours.
You give them IV fluids.
They were that sick.
That is what true pancreatitisis to me.
These dogs are a little, youknow, painful, vomiting here and
(21:15):
there.
Um to me that's not documentedpancreatitis.
So I would want to know, youknow, more, more answers to that
question and you know I alwaysrecommend things like how about
a chiropractor?
How about, you know, maybe somebody work, you know, see if
there's any pain along the back?
And again, how often are theyvomiting?
And, of course, what are theyeating?
Is there something inflammatoryin the diet Cause I think
(21:36):
pancreatitis is caused byinflammatory ingredients.
All the carbs, all this stuffthat we talk about, or unhealthy
fats, saturated animal fat,that's like.
I don't think there's even anychance that that causes
pancreatitis, even if they'regetting a lot of it because it's
a healthy fat.
But your trans fats or yourseed oils that are highly
(21:59):
processed at high temperatures,that are in kibble or any
biscuit type treats or a lot ofhuman fast food.
So if you're sharing yeah, mydog eats raw, but I share my
chicken McNuggets with them, orthey have a puppuccino now and
then you know that stuff allcounts for what they're eating.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
It does count, and that's why I'm going to take you
to the next part of the story,where we, where we always ask
what treats what else is goinginto the diet?
Okay, if you had a dog that wasexhibiting these kinds of
(22:46):
issues and you had a treat thathad these in this treat, okay,
this is a Kirkland's a brand.
It is a jerky treat for dog,which I find is very misleading,
because they say right up hereno artificial colors, flavors or
(23:07):
preservatives, but then you gointo the ingredients, dr Jasek,
and it's chicken.
Next one is brown sugar salt,natural flavor, natural smoke
flavor and rosemary extract.
Well, I would call thatartificial.
How do you get natural smokeflavor?
(23:29):
Are we building a fire and thenfanning the flames so that this
natural smoke can get on it, orrubbing the meat on the log,
the charcoal log, you know, tomake it taste like.
And why, dr Jason?
Why do we need natural smokeflavor for a?
Speaker 2 (23:47):
dog?
Yeah, because they don't smoketheir meat.
You ever see wolves sittingaround the smoker drinking a
beer?
No, oh, that's the people thatdo that.
Right, because who's buying it?
It's the people.
Oh, I like smoke flavor of it.
My dog would like smoke flavortoo.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
This and I can tell you that when we really look
into diets, this is where mostof the time we see digestive,
gut and poop issues.
That's why we always are askingabout treats.
What else is in the diet?
I would say you've got to takethis one out of the diet.
(24:26):
Brown sugar, salt, naturalflavors, natural smoke flavor,
rosemary extract Way too muchstuff in there.
We don't know if this certainlythe sugar could be causing the
stomach to expand.
And again, why do we need sugarin a dog treat?
Speaker 2 (24:49):
Right.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
One word Addictive.
But here's what people do, drJasek they want to switch the
most important thing the protein, the fat.
They want to drop that down.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Right and they're missing what's likely the real
cause of the issue, thepancreatitis is.
You know, something is aflavoring natural.
I mean, meat is flavored.
Meat flavored because it's meatright.
(25:37):
You don't have to add flavoringto it.
Why do you have to add liverfailure, liver, liver flavor to
a dog treat?
Because it should just tastelike liver, you know.
So you know you're putting abunch of artificial stuff in and
yeah, that's what they'rereacting to.
(25:57):
You've got to eliminate allthat artificial stuff.
Even you know foods.
There's foods out there, rawfoods, with all these different
ingredients in.
Just meat, bones and organs.
Just get down to the meat,bones and organs and see how
they do on that.
And by incriminating one thingand just eliminating fat, well,
(26:20):
where are they going to gettheir vitamin D from?
Where are they going to gettheir vitamin D and the other
fat soluble vitamins, vitamin K2and vitamin A, if they're not
getting fat?
We cut it back too much.
They're not getting fat solublevitamins because they live in
the fat and that is.
I don't even know how that evergot started.
That fat is a problem.
(26:41):
I think it's.
I know what I used to hear fromclients.
I still do every now and then.
Well, my dog ate my Frenchfries and got pancreatitis.
So it must've been fat, must befat Like okay, how about the
salt, the sugar, the potato,which is a start, and they're
probably fried in corn oil orsoybean oil or something like
(27:02):
that, or canola oil.
So it's not the fat, it's theother ingredients, like you said
, and perhaps the type of fatthe other ingredients like you
said and perhaps the type ofthat.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Yeah, yeah.
So anything that says jerkyguys, I'm very uh, I am very,
very suspect of.
So check your ingredients, okay.
The last question that I havefor you today.
We get this one a lot, dr Jacek.
Um, where people want to nowlower the protein.
(27:33):
Why, where people want to nowlower the protein?
Why, because the bun and thecreatin are elevated, okay, are
elevated in.
Their vet says you've got tolower the protein.
So, brian, our nutritionist,was talking to the pet parent
and he said well, how low do youwant to go?
Because, in reality, theseproteins so you've got this role
(27:53):
, okay which people call rawright, and it is raw, but in
that row we've got meat, bones,organ and fat and people get it
in their head that that's 80%protein.
No, there's 80% of the meat inthere.
No, there's 80% of the meat inthere, but the actual protein is
(28:17):
somewhere in the 14 to 18%range.
Okay, so how low do we want togo?
And we would say you don't needto go low.
What we need to understand iswhat is causing the creatinine
in the bun to increase Now?
Is causing the creatinine inthe bun to increase Now?
This is a seasoned raw feeder,so they do know that the bun and
(28:37):
the creatinine is going to behigher in raw fed dogs, but we
don't have the numbers.
They are saying that thenumbers are higher.
The question that Brian had DrJasek was is there.
He thought that he had readthis someplace that there was
another number, that if it waselevated because I know when you
(28:58):
look at numbers you not onlyare saying all right, why is
this elevated at this time?
Was there some type of anassault that the body is just
doing its job and thereforethose numbers are higher and
it's working and they'll comeback down but he wanted to know
whether there was another numberthat would suggest that it
(29:20):
wasn't one of the organs thatwas having an issue.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (29:27):
That it wasn't one of the organs that was having an
issue.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Or that it could be misdiagnosed due to just looking
at the bun and the creatinine.
Should we be looking atsomething else as well?
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Yeah.
So the other indicator I look atfor kidney issues.
So it depends on how high theyare.
First of all.
You know, if they're just likea few points out of the normal
range, then I see either normalfluctuation, or you commonly see
that in older pets or it'sbecause they're just like a few
points out of the normal range.
Then I see either normalfluctuation or you commonly see
that older pets, or it's becausethey're eating raw.
If they're getting you know,higher, like, say, a BUN over 50
(30:03):
or a creatinine maybe overthree, then maybe we're starting
to see some issues with thekidneys, which just tells us
that the kidneys maybe need someadditional support.
But the other thing that I lookat is phosphorus.
Well, before I say that, I wantto say something.
There is one other lab valuethat's looked at that I don't
(30:26):
look at.
It's called the SDMA.
It's a relatively new.
Well, new, probably in the last10 years.
It's newer.
I don't find it to correlate.
Well, it can go, it can beelevated without the BN and
creatinine being elevated, andthey'll still say the pet has
kidney issues and needs to be onthe protein diets and all that.
(30:48):
I think they come out withthese new tests just so they can
diagnose more stuff.
Personally, I have not seenthat one correlate, so I don't
look at the SDMA, but thephosphorus.
So one of the things that thekidneys do is clear phosphorus
and if the kidneys are trulylosing function, so they're
truly, truly can't do their jobanymore, phosphorus goes up, and
(31:11):
when the phosphorus goes up,that's a sign that we are
starting to truly havecompromised kidney function.
If we don't have an elevatedphosphorus and the Bionicratin
are up, then you know we'restill got a good window there to
do some support, maybe someherbs to help support the
kidneys.
(31:31):
Again, if they're above acertain value, minor elevations
I don't even worry about, youknow, if they're, if they're
being fed raw, and even if wehave the higher values, I don't
change your diet either.
I just do more herbs and stufffor kidneys because they need
the right, they need propernutrition.
(31:51):
You have to give the kidneys thenutrients it needs to be a
healthy kidney.
And if you put them on theseultra low protein diets that are
, by the way, people worriedabout pancreatitis, you know how
they get dogs to eat these lowprotein diets because they don't
have any flavor.
They put a bunch of fat in them.
That's what makes them, youknow, taste good to the dogs.
(32:13):
So then you're setting them upfor.
And these are unhealthy fatstoo.
So then you're setting them upfor other problems there.
But these low protein dietsthey're not even giving them
enough nutrition.
So I get just always have to becareful not to micromanage any
one nutrient, whether it'sprotein or fat or zinc or iron
(32:37):
or whatever.
The thing that's getting pickedon is you have to be really
careful not to micromanage anyone nutrient.
And look at you know otherthings that might've been going
on with the dog.
You know I've had clients likewhen I talked to you and like
their dog all of a sudden goesin, gets blood work, got some
(32:58):
elevated kidney values and wetalk about what's when I said
cause the dog had been a littledehydrated, cause if they're
even a little dehydrated, thosevalues go up and like, yeah,
actually we went for a reallylong hike before that blood work
was done and so maybe the doghadn't had enough to drink that
day.
It would have gotten caught uplater in the day.
(33:19):
But the timing of the bloodwork, or a dog that has vomiting
or diarrhea, like Lazi, did youknow she's dehydrated.
So the kidney values, um, aregoing to be up, but the
conventional vets just put thislabel on kidney disease and
they'll give it some stage stageone, two, three, you know, just
to scare people even more.
(33:39):
So you got to be on this.
You know low protein diet but Ithink a lot of people don't
understand.
I've had people say well, Idon't think a hundred percent
protein is healthy for my dog.
I'm like well, neither do I.
Where do you get that?
Yeah, 100 protein, right, areyou feeding like a protein
powder or something like I don'tknow?
(34:00):
Because raw food, yeah, around15 protein.
So it's not, it's not highprotein and it's a species
appropriate proteins.
If you're feeding a high pro, Imean, if people look, look at a
bag of kibble, cause it's drymatter.
Some of those are 40 to 50%protein and it's like corn and
soybean and really unhealthyprotein.
(34:21):
So dogs might do better to cutback on those proteins.
But on a meat protein, youdon't.
You don't need to, you don'tneed to cut it back.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Yeah, that's the thing.
We don't quantify things much,you know.
We're like well, this proteinis not the same as that protein.
Is it plant protein?
Is it animal protein?
Is it?
You know what kind of proteinis it?
And it's just like a calorie.
Well, which calorie are weconcerned about?
Are we concerned about theprotein?
Are we concerned about the fat?
(34:50):
Are we concerned about theprotein?
Are we concerned about the fat?
Are we concerned about the carb?
Which one?
Right?
So, because, because they'reall different, and that's that's
the thing that that we try toget down to, and I think that
sometimes it irritates petparents because they just are
like, I don't know, I just justjust give me the low protein
diet.
You're already on it, You'realready there, Right?
(35:14):
So that's great information.
You know, listen to you talk,and you've said this many, many
times that vets today are onlygo by the diagnostic tools and I
was listening to a podcast withwith Tucker Carlson and it was
(35:35):
a guy who was talking about thepharmaceutical industry and and
and actually the antidepressantarena right, ssris, painkillers,
all these different types ofthings and he was primarily
talking about depression, but hesaid the exact same thing.
He said, look, the professiondoesn't allow for you to really
(36:00):
understand why somebody isdepressed, right, why?
And is it their job?
Is it their marriage?
Is it their relationships?
You know kind of what is it?
And he said so they puteverybody in a box.
And he said everybody isdifferent.
(36:21):
And he was talking about thiswas a Tucker Carlson interview,
if I didn't already say that hewas just talking about the
danger, the danger of this andhow sometimes these
antidepressants and well, notsometimes, many times they cause
actual brain injuries.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Yeah.
And leave people just to commitsuicide and things.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Right.
So Tucker Carlson asked himabout testing right, because we
get that a lot in this world andhe said there is no testing
that's going to be done.
They said it's obvious when youlook at people right, when you
are counseling with people, andthey come off antidepressants
(37:09):
and they have massive anxiety orthey're talking about little
holes in their brains, it's just, it's crazy.
So my whole point to that is itis systematic throughout the
whole healthcare arena and Idon't think that pet parents
think that extends over to theirpets and it does especially to
(37:33):
the pets.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
Because those depressed people too, I bet,
would be tremendously helped bya diet change.
They bet they don't ask themhow much sugar do you eat.
Are you eating healthy fats tohelp feed your brain?
Are you getting outside andgetting exercise?
Go out for walks in thesunshine?
They don't ask them that either.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
Yeah, and it was just .
It's crazy because I, as I justlooked at chat GPT, I think
that that if we're able to, justnow, we're not going to do Dr
Google, we're going to do chatGPT solutions.
Right, how, how many of thoseare we going to get wrong?
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Right.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
Right, how many of pets and people will suffer,
right?
I love what Robert Kennedy isdoing right now, but I said this
to Brian on the podcast theother night Probably didn't, but
on the news they were showingthe list of companies that were
(38:35):
getting on board with the MAGAright, make America Healthy
Again.
Maha, sorry, and I was struckby this All of these companies
that had foods that they haddangerous chemicals in that they
could take out and they werelike, oh well, we'll just take
(38:56):
this one out, we're getting onboard.
Yay for us.
And I'm like so all thesecompanies have known that
they've had these dangerouschemicals in our food, in the
pet food, and they get to justtake one out and go, hey, we're
on board.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
But they're leaving other dangerous stuff in there
Right.
Yeah, and now they're the goodguys.
They've been poisoning us allalong in our pets, but now
they're the good guys becausethey're taking one thing out.
It's all like that.
It's just so like programmed,you know, like do one good thing
and then they're good.
But you know, don't talk aboutall the other stuff that's in
(39:33):
there.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
Great.
And I love the fact thatPresident Trump is saying all
right on these COVID shots.
You told me they were safe, youtold me they were this and blah
, blah, blah.
So show me the evidence now.
That's what you told me.
You told me blah, blah, blah.
Show me the evidence now.
That's what you told me.
You told me blah, blah, blah.
Show me the evidence.
And I was thinking about yougoing to Weston, a Price, and I
(40:00):
still, I still, you know, amhopeful that when you talk and I
was going to ask you will yoube talking about vaccines while
you're there the rabies vaccines?
Speaker 2 (40:11):
I'll be mentioning vaccines.
I mean, I'm talking in a littlebroader strokes about, um, that
pets are naturally healthy,that you don't need to go to the
vet, that vaccine I'm notgetting deep into the rabies
rabbit hole, but I'm saying wedon't make pets healthy by
starting pumping them full ofpharmaceuticals the second
(40:32):
they're out of their mama.
They need a healthy mama, youknow, taking care of them,
nursing them.
They don't need pharmaceuticalsto be healthy.
So in that realm I am.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
Well, weston A Price is a is a large organization and
I would think that that wouldbe something that Bobby Kennedy
would be looking at or couldlook at or could hear about.
So I'm still I know it's a,it's a long shot, but I'm still
hopeful that because of whatthey're bringing up on the
(41:07):
people side that maybe we willbe able to change something.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
Well, I think I, I think, and the reason I'm really
, I mean, it's a number ofreasons.
I'm really excited to bespeaking at Weston A Price, but
you know they haven't hadsomebody in there talking about
pet health.
I'm the first one and it's likeI think you you know, you were
mentioning this earlier Peopledon't always go back and forth.
They don't take what theyrealize about their pet and
(41:33):
apply the same principles tothem and they don't take what
they know about themselves andapply the same principles to
their pets.
So these people that are intoWeston a price and they're in,
they're buying raw milk anddoing all this really, really
healthy, natural, wholesome foodfor themselves.
I bet you a lot of those peopleare dumping kibble in their
(41:56):
pet's bowl and maybe they don'tknow any different, maybe they
just haven't had the rightinformation.
There just aren't that manypeople out there talking about
it.
So I agree, I'm hoping thatgetting in front of an audience
like this and introducing theseprinciples that we have to treat
it's kind of the principleslike we have to treat animals,
(42:19):
species, appropriately, and I'mkind of incorporating like some
farm animals too, because a lotof people there do have dairy
cows and goats and things likethat.
But you have to let cows out onthe pasture grazing and dogs
and cats need to be eating meatand chickens need to be out
there scratching and you knowthey need to be doing what
nature intended them to be, tobe doing in in order to be
(42:44):
healthy and stop going to thevet.
I'm literally going to kind ofa you know, one like summary
thing is yes, I'm a vet tellingyou don't take your animals to
the vet unless they broke a legor something like that.
So that's kind of the premise.
So I'm hoping you know it'll.
It'll make a difference.
(43:05):
I'd like to believe that I wasasked for some good reason,
cause you're damn good.
That's why I don't know aboutthat.
I'm going to the AHVMA thisweekend, this next weekend,
coming up, and we'll see.
We have an idea what holisticvets are up to these days.
Last year it was just a bunchof us old fogies and that was a
(43:27):
little frightening because we'reonly going to be doing this so
long.
We need some youngsters.
But I did get an email from theAHVMA and they're um, sounds
like they're trying to revivetheir student chapter, so they
have a S A H VMA where theyactually, um, it's a mentorship
(43:49):
program for vet students, so Isigned up.
I'm like, yeah, I'd be happy todo that If I could talk to some
of these kids in school and say, look, this is what's going to
happen when you get out ofschool.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
Look at that.
You know, look at that.
That's what you've been wantingto do.
Speaker 2 (44:03):
That's what I've been wanting to do so, signed up for
their mentor.
They had this going on, but Ithink it kind of faded.
And you know they need to haveprograms to bring these kids to
the conference too.
You know, as conferences getexpensive, you know, and for if
you're a student, you know bythe time you pay for the
conference and the hotel, and ifyou got to fly, you know you're
(44:24):
several thousand dollars to goand and they need to help get
these kids are getting sponsoredand keep them excited and so,
yeah, so that gave me some hopethat maybe we can get get some
new blood out there, thinking,thinking this way.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
Well, when you go, you, or before you go, ask
Weston A Price if they're goingto videotape your talk and if
you can get a copy of it and ifyou're able to share any of that
, because your people would loveto hear that talk.
Speaker 2 (44:52):
I'll ask them, I'll send cause.
I'm in communication with them.
I'm always asking them allkinds of questions.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
I don't know.
All right, everybody Listen.
You can work with Dr Judy Jasek.
I highly suggest that you get asecond opinion on pancreatitis,
on the elevated bun and creatin.
Um, work with her before youmake a dramatic decision to
lower the protein or the fat inthe real animal fat.
There are some tweaks that wecan make.
They're going to keep your dogoff pharmaceuticals and healthy
(45:24):
for longer in life.
Okay, so get over to a h avetcom, a h a vetcom.
Get your dog on a speciesappropriate diet.
If you have questions, we'll beglad to answer them right here
on the podcast.
Just email us at info at rawdog food and company dot com,
because here, raw dog food, yourpet, your pet's health, is our
(45:45):
business.
See, now, I threw myself upbecause I was out of cadence,
okay you're on autopilot.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
If you think about it like, what do I say?
Speaker 1 (45:52):
now, yeah, your pet's health is our business.
And what dr jay said?
Speaker 2 (45:58):
friends, don't leave friends.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
Let friends be, kibble y'all, that's right all
right, everybody, we'll see younext week.
Bye-bye, oh snap.
Find out how you can start yourdog on the road to health and
longevity.
Go to rawdogfoodandcompanycom,where friends don't let friends
feed kibble and where your pet'shealth is our business.
Oh snap.
Well, hello Raw Feeders.
I'm Deedee Mercer-Moffitt, CEOof Raw Dog Food and Company.
We are Pets, Health is ourbusiness and we're friends, like
my friend, Dr Judy Jasekextraordinary, she doesn't let
people feed kibble.
Right, Dr Jasek?
Come on.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
No, not ever, Not even the good ones, not even
with a topper arm.
No, not, not ever, not even thegood ones.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Not even with a topper arm.
You know, I I think I've saidthis before, but I I walked into
a pet food store a couple ofdays ago Cause I was looking for
a bed for laws for one of ourcars and, um, I cannot stand the
smell in there.
I cannot, it just makes me gag,makes me gag.
You can literally smell theprocessed foods in a pet food
(00:53):
store.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
It's disgusting to me it's really disgusting.
You know, we have out hereoutside of Nashville just see
just east of Nashville on I-40,which kind of a main interstate.
We have a Royal Canaan planthere and always reminds me of
the Purina plant there, I-70outside of Denver, you know,
remember driving by that and howbad it stinks, and the Royal
(01:17):
Canaan plants, of course, thesame way.
It's like I always drive bylike.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Think about this.
I mean all of these Purinaplants, and it would be
interesting to know how manythere are, because there seem to
be one in every state, a giantPurina plant.
So how many dogs out there areeating bad food?
Speaker 2 (01:46):
A ton, a ton the majority of them, sadly.
I mean, what percentage of petsdo you and I actually influence
?
Sadly, it's probably a very,very small percentage.
I mean, it's kind of our wholeworld.
So it's easy to feel like youknow we're affecting a bigger
part of the population, but whenit comes to all the I don't
(02:10):
know how many pets there are 300million or something it's a lot
of pets.
In in the country there's a lotof pets.
Maybe it's not that many.
I think there's 300 millionpeople but anyway there's a lot,
millions and millions and wejust touch a small percentage of
that.
And yeah, you see those bigplants and you know, and you
(02:30):
know I always wondered, you knowthey're in Denver.
It's like kind of right thereby stockyards and stuff and it's
like, well, how convenientthey're just putting all the
dead carcasses and everything.
Just let's throw them in thehopper there at the Prina plant
and cook them up and grind theminto dog food.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
People don't believe that though, dr Jasek.
Even if we tell them they don'tbelieve that, they're like yeah
, that doesn't happen.
I'm like well, it damn suredoes.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
But okay, you know you know, go go to that Prina
plant.
Let's see if they'd even letyou peek inside.
I bet they don't.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Okay.
So I just did a question tochat GPT on how many dogs are in
the U?
S.
According to trusted housesitters, uh, there are 89.7
million dogs in the U?
S as of 2024.
Um, and the AVMA estimatesbetween 83.7 and 88.9.
(03:28):
So let's just say, you knowwhatever, there are at least 85
million dogs.
80, 85 million.
Yeah, holy cow, holy cow.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
That's a lot.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
That's why.
That's why there are perinaplants everywhere.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
It's crazy.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
And big stores like PetSmart and Petco, and all
those with aisles and aisles andaisles of stacks and stacks of
that stinky food.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Yeah, gross.
Okay, speaking of gross, notreally gross, but we want to
talk a little bit today aboutperianal fistulas.
Yeah, that's so gross.
Okay, can you kind of explain?
Obviously we're talking aboutthe anal area.
Why do they use the wordperianal?
(04:19):
What does that mean?
Peri?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Peri means around or in the area of.
So it's basically just in thearea around the anus.
Gotcha, another way it's used,but nothing is coming to me.
But yeah, it's in the area ofthe anus, so like around the
anus.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
So we know some people that are perianal, that
their, that their head isperianal.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Yeah, or or directly in but, All right, I digress.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Okay, so a fistula?
Uh, this is around the anusarea, but then there's the
fistula.
What is a fistula?
Speaker 2 (05:07):
so fistula, it's like we call it a draining tract in
kind of in medicine, but it'sbasically like an opening.
But they can go in like acouple, like in a big dog.
German shepherds seem to be alittle predisposed to this, not
german shepherds like yours thatare healthy but unhealthy.
German shepherds seem to be alittle predisposed to this, not
German Shepherds like yours thatare healthy but unhealthy.
German Shepherds that are, youknow, fed, killed and
(05:28):
over-vaccinated, and all thatbecause it's I think they're,
they're like a cause but like adisruption in the immune system.
But we can talk more about that.
But anyway it's, it's like a,it's like an opening that goes
in.
But what's weird about?
So they'll see a little soreand it's not the anal gland.
So the anal glands, that arethese little sacks on either
side of the anus.
(05:48):
It's not that it will be on theoutside of that, it's not
directly related to the analsack and you'll see this little
sore open up, but then it's likethe opening can go in there,
sometimes a couple of inches,and then it gets like this
lining on the inside and they'rereally hard to heal and they
tend to respond toimmunosuppressive treatments.
(06:12):
So it seems to be like a youknow some sort of aberration of
the immune system or autoimmuneor or something like that.
I mean, nobody really knowswhat causes them, but they show
up and they can be really hardto treat.
It's really hard to get them toclear up, but the foundation
for treating them is the same.
(06:33):
We reduce inflammation byimproving the diet and doing
like anti-inflammatory herbs,herbs that help reduce
inflammation and like local likeirrigation, like irrigating
them with saline and stuff likethat.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
So if you, if you, had a client that was a raw
feeder, has been a raw feederfor many years, but now their
dog is being diagnosed withperianal fistula, would you be
(07:14):
looking at what kind of proteinsthey're feeding and suggesting
that they switch up theirproteins?
Speaker 2 (07:22):
No, probably not.
In a word, no, probablywouldn't be doing that.
They're probably saying it'slike a food allergy, or cause.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
They don't know what causes it.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
We really don't know, they kind of.
I've seen them, they can kindof show up out of nowhere, um
it's.
It's very hard to connect thedots.
But then I would also wonder,is this dog had any vaccines?
You know anything like thatthat could have disrupted the
immune system?
But it is about reducinginflammation.
(07:52):
So you know, I would doanti-inflammatory herbs and like
again, like local, you knowirrigation, like I'm.
I like I've done a lot withozone, like irrigating,
something like that with likeozonated saline or something
where you're oxygenating thearea.
You're just trying to get thetissue they're really, really
healthy because they do.
(08:13):
They get this lining in them,that and they it can be really
hard to get them to heal.
But no, I would not beisolating proteins.
I would be focusing on makingsure the dog's on an
appropriately balanced species,appropriate raw diet.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
That's a mouthful.
Yeah, it does seem that thisyou know we need to change up
the proteins is a vet just sortof reaching for whatever they
can.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
They don't know what to do.
They probably put the dog onantibiotics too, or recommend it
because that's the other thingthey do when they don't know
what to do.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So in order to kind of irrigatethat area, is that something
that a pet parent can dothemselves?
They could get the equipmentand then they could get the
stuff from you, or how wouldthey go about doing that?
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Yeah, cause all this they need to do.
I mean, they could evenprobably do it with something
like distilled water, cause it'snot sterile, right, like if
you're doing giving a pet fluidslike they're dehydrated, like
Lazy Liz with the vomiting andall that that you have to give
like sterile fluids.
But this is not sterile, it'sopen to the outside, so you
(09:37):
could, um, I was just talking toa client the other day,
actually this morning, her, thedoc, has a tumor that's opened
up, it's got a little hole in it, and I said, go buy some
contact lens saline, you know,because it's just saline Um
doesn't have to be sterile andyou can get syringes.
You can buy syringes on Amazonthese days, you can get them all
over the place.
(09:58):
Or go to your feed store andget a syringe, just put some of
that in there and then just kindof shoot it in there.
It's the it's.
It's not so much what you'reputting in there, it's this
physical like irrigation,keeping it clean, keeping the
tissues in there.
I don't recommend putting likea strong disinfectant like
betadine or something like thatin there, but irrigating it.
(10:21):
And then, you know, I I do a lotwith you know, with Chinese
herbs, um, to help reduceinflammation.
But things that they could dowould be things like turmeric.
Turmeric's a good natural, likegood anti-inflammatory.
This is a supplement that youknow taking it in the hole, but
(10:41):
um, but that sort of thing, andyou know, look also.
Look at the pet's environment.
Is there anything new?
Even new bedding?
You know you mentioned beds.
Sometimes there's chemicals onbedding.
They put, you know, flameretardants on that's furniture.
I mean everything in our worldum could have a chemical on it.
(11:03):
So is there anything new in thedog's environment?
Make sure they're feeding in,you know, non-plastic bowls.
You know, most likely stainlesssteel glasses Okay, but I never
use glass because it breaks.
So, um, but stainless steel,make sure there's nothing new
that the dog um could bereacting to.
(11:23):
Even trying something like someCBD from an anti-inflammatory
perspective, you know could help.
But I would start with reallymaking sure they're really
nailing the nutrition and andbalancing that out.
Make sure they're not slippingin some little.
(11:43):
Sometimes you know they'll slipin some little.
Sometimes you know they'll slipin some little extra treats or
give the kibble now and then.
Or you know, if the dog's beenvaccinated, that could could be
a contributing cause.
But also add in things likealgae, like the phyto
phytosynergy from adored bees,mushrooms, like a good mushroom
blends.
These are all just adding extranutrition and helping to
(12:07):
balance out the immune system.
Um, I would start there.
I would not be doingantibiotics, it's not a
bacterial thing at all, um, andI would continue to rotate
proteins and make sure thattheir diet is, you know, is
super well balanced and then, ifit's not healing, like I said,
we, we do stuff like withChinese herbal blends and stuff
(12:27):
like that.
That can also help.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
So you just said something very important,
because typically they're goingto put them on a cycle cyclose
support.
How do you say that?
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Oh, cyclosporine yeah .
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Suppressive Yep.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Yeah, and so would you be in favor of an
immunosuppressant for that, notinitially, if they get really
bad.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
I mean, I have seen them respond to
immunosuppressive drugs.
They do respond to cyclosporineor prednisone.
But I would try because usuallythey're not problematic,
meaning not painful, like youknow, and it's not like
something that'slife-threatening if you don't
get it to resolve.
If you have an autoimmuneanemia or something that's
(13:20):
life-threatening, you have toput those dogs on
immunosuppressive drugs to getthat to stop and rebuild, start
rebuilding their blood, and thenyou work on balancing the body.
But you don't really need thatkind of emergency intervention
here.
I would work on balancing thebody first.
If symptomatically it becomeslike painful or irritating or
(13:43):
you know, sometimes the dogsscoot their butts a lot and you
know becomes a problem thenmaybe for the short term to get
it under control.
But remember, it's not treatinganything.
All this doing is making itlook better temporarily.
So you're better off working onbalancing off the body and
seeing if the body can get itresolved rather than, um, you
(14:06):
know, just going right for theimmunosuppressive drugs, cause
there's just going to prolongthe healing in the long run.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Gotcha, gotcha.
Okay, good advice, good advice.
And if your dog has been umdiagnosed with a perianal that's
around the anal fistula, youmight want to get a second
opinion about how to treat thatand work with Dr Judy Jasik at
ahavetcom.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
There's also such a thing as a perianal hernia,
which is where the muscles likeout away from it, kind of break
open, and then that's usuallysurgical because you got to go
tuck them back in.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Yikes.
Okay, so I have anotherquestion for you.
So a lot of times, dr Jasek,when we hear the word
pancreatitis, right.
So someone says my dog haspancreatitis, I need a low fat
option, or I need low protein,right, low fat, let me low
proteins on my next question.
But low fat option?
Well, most of the foods areready in an accurate or you know
(15:21):
a fat ratio.
We're not talking about a 20,30% fat ratio in these blends.
So here's what we do todetermine what's going on.
We don't just take that at facevalue because we get so much of
this right, the pancreatitis.
(15:43):
So first I want to ask you howdo you think that?
Well, first of all, let me askyou this Do you think that
pancreatitis in dogs getsmisdiagnosed?
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Yes, All the time, especially recently, I would say
it didn't used to, but I wouldsay in recent years because
they're coming out with likethese little slight bedside snap
tests in the clinic.
You know just this quick littlepancreatitis, yes or no tests.
And so, yes, I do think it'sbeing misdiagnosed.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Okay, so what we do is we start asking the questions
.
Now.
Some pet parents don't like it,right, they just want okay,
tell me, what blend is low fat?
Well, what you're feeding is ispretty low fat, right.
Eight to ten percent, it'spretty normal.
We don't need it any lower thanthat.
Even 12 can be fine.
(16:43):
And you and I don't look at rawfat, raw animal fat, as a cause
of pancreatitis.
Okay, so we started askingthese questions.
Now, one of the questions thatI always ask is one how did they
determine that?
And they will say I always askis one how did they determine
(17:05):
that?
And they will say oh well, theydid a blood test, okay, well,
the second thing that we ask istell us what the symptoms?
Uh, well, the second thing weask are what else is going into
the diet, okay, besides raw?
Because people will say thisthey'll say well, my dog is been
purely on raw for X amount ofyears.
(17:27):
There's quite obviously asituation where we can advise,
recommend to help the petparents change something so that
they don't have to get on theselow fat, because we don't think
that's a great option, and sothat they don't get on
medication.
All right, this is what thesymptoms were, and then I'm
(17:52):
going to tell you what else wasin the diet.
But here's the symptomsrestlessness, lethargy, vomiting
, loss of appetite.
And then then the pet parentgoes on to explain this that the
dog would erratically runaround the house and then
randomly flop on her back andthen be doing the down dog
(18:12):
stretch over and over again, aswell as having a hunchback when
running around, and they saidthat this would last for hours
and then she would be verylethargic.
And so the vet determined thatshe had a fever and a grade one
heart murmur.
They ran blood work and resultsconcluded pancreatitis.
(18:34):
And they said that this dog hadthe symptoms of what I just
explained several times in thesummer, but the vet could not
determine anything at the time,and then she would go back to
normal and then this wouldhappen again.
Any thoughts on thatinformation?
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Yeah, I mean it definitely sounds like the dog's
uncomfortable for some reason.
Um, and that can be hard todetermine because, I will say so
, I think the vet you knowjumped on the pancreatic and
pancreatitis thing because ofthe pain, assuming it's
abdominal pain.
And I always like to know whatblood tests they run, because
(19:22):
the blood tests are not all thataccurate in my experience in
diagnosing pancreatitis.
But back pain will cause verysimilar symptoms.
If you're looking at just painsymptoms, this discomfort, so
this downward dog thing, I thinkthat can be a sign of
discomfort.
You know the dog definitely isshowing some signs of discomfort
(19:44):
.
But that can happen, you know,along the back, with back spasms
and things like that and it'sthe same area of the body,
spasms and things like that andit's the same area of the body.
So it can be hard to determine.
Lethargy can be pain.
You know the dog doesn't feellike doing anything because when
it does things it hurts.
It hurts to move around.
So I always have todifferentiate.
Is the dog not wanting to do asmuch because it's in pain?
(20:07):
So you have to kind of rule outthose other things.
Pain, so you have to kind ofrule out those other things
Vomiting.
I always ask how much or howoften is the dog vomiting?
Because earlier on in my career, when we diagnosed pancreatitis
and what I came to learn is andI still think this is true
pancreatitis really isdefinitively diagnosed by an
(20:29):
ultrasound.
You look at the pancreas andyou see it's swollen.
Looking at pancreatic enzymesin the blood and some of this
newer testing they have, I don'tthink is definitive for a true
pancreatitis, because the dogsthat we used to call
pancreatitis, these dogs couldhold down nothing.
They were vomiting multipletimes an hour.
(20:50):
These dogs could hold downnothing.
They were vomiting multipletimes an hour.
You had to hold them completelyoff of anything early for like
72 hours.
You give them IV fluids.
They were that sick.
That is what true pancreatitisis to me.
These dogs are a little, youknow, painful, vomiting here and
(21:15):
there.
Um to me that's not documentedpancreatitis.
So I would want to know, youknow, more, more answers to that
question and you know I alwaysrecommend things like how about
a chiropractor?
How about, you know, maybe somebody work, you know, see if
there's any pain along the back?
And again, how often are theyvomiting?
And, of course, what are theyeating?
Is there something inflammatoryin the diet Cause I think
(21:36):
pancreatitis is caused byinflammatory ingredients.
All the carbs, all this stuffthat we talk about, or unhealthy
fats, saturated animal fat,that's like.
I don't think there's even anychance that that causes
pancreatitis, even if they'regetting a lot of it because it's
a healthy fat.
But your trans fats or yourseed oils that are highly
(21:59):
processed at high temperatures,that are in kibble or any
biscuit type treats or a lot ofhuman fast food.
So if you're sharing yeah, mydog eats raw, but I share my
chicken McNuggets with them, orthey have a puppuccino now and
then you know that stuff allcounts for what they're eating.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
It does count, and that's why I'm going to take you
to the next part of the story,where we, where we always ask
what treats what else is goinginto the diet?
Okay, if you had a dog that wasexhibiting these kinds of
(22:46):
issues and you had a treat thathad these in this treat, okay,
this is a Kirkland's a brand.
It is a jerky treat for dog,which I find is very misleading,
because they say right up hereno artificial colors, flavors or
(23:07):
preservatives, but then you gointo the ingredients, dr Jasek,
and it's chicken.
Next one is brown sugar salt,natural flavor, natural smoke
flavor and rosemary extract.
Well, I would call thatartificial.
How do you get natural smokeflavor?
(23:29):
Are we building a fire and thenfanning the flames so that this
natural smoke can get on it, orrubbing the meat on the log,
the charcoal log, you know, tomake it taste like.
And why, dr Jason?
Why do we need natural smokeflavor for a?
Speaker 2 (23:47):
dog?
Yeah, because they don't smoketheir meat.
You ever see wolves sittingaround the smoker drinking a
beer?
No, oh, that's the people thatdo that.
Right, because who's buying it?
It's the people.
Oh, I like smoke flavor of it.
My dog would like smoke flavortoo.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
This and I can tell you that when we really look
into diets, this is where mostof the time we see digestive,
gut and poop issues.
That's why we always are askingabout treats.
What else is in the diet?
I would say you've got to takethis one out of the diet.
(24:26):
Brown sugar, salt, naturalflavors, natural smoke flavor,
rosemary extract Way too muchstuff in there.
We don't know if this certainlythe sugar could be causing the
stomach to expand.
And again, why do we need sugarin a dog treat?
Speaker 2 (24:49):
Right.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
One word Addictive.
But here's what people do, drJasek they want to switch the
most important thing the protein, the fat.
They want to drop that down.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Right and they're missing what's likely the real
cause of the issue, thepancreatitis is.
You know, something is aflavoring natural.
I mean, meat is flavored.
Meat flavored because it's meatright.
(25:37):
You don't have to add flavoringto it.
Why do you have to add liverfailure, liver, liver flavor to
a dog treat?
Because it should just tastelike liver, you know.
So you know you're putting abunch of artificial stuff in and
yeah, that's what they'rereacting to.
(25:57):
You've got to eliminate allthat artificial stuff.
Even you know foods.
There's foods out there, rawfoods, with all these different
ingredients in.
Just meat, bones and organs.
Just get down to the meat,bones and organs and see how
they do on that.
And by incriminating one thingand just eliminating fat, well,
(26:20):
where are they going to gettheir vitamin D from?
Where are they going to gettheir vitamin D and the other
fat soluble vitamins, vitamin K2and vitamin A, if they're not
getting fat?
We cut it back too much.
They're not getting fat solublevitamins because they live in
the fat and that is.
I don't even know how that evergot started.
That fat is a problem.
(26:41):
I think it's.
I know what I used to hear fromclients.
I still do every now and then.
Well, my dog ate my Frenchfries and got pancreatitis.
So it must've been fat, must befat Like okay, how about the
salt, the sugar, the potato,which is a start, and they're
probably fried in corn oil orsoybean oil or something like
(27:02):
that, or canola oil.
So it's not the fat, it's theother ingredients, like you said
, and perhaps the type of fatthe other ingredients like you
said and perhaps the type ofthat.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Yeah, yeah.
So anything that says jerkyguys, I'm very uh, I am very,
very suspect of.
So check your ingredients, okay.
The last question that I havefor you today.
We get this one a lot, dr Jacek.
Um, where people want to nowlower the protein.
(27:33):
Why, where people want to nowlower the protein?
Why, because the bun and thecreatin are elevated, okay, are
elevated in.
Their vet says you've got tolower the protein.
So, brian, our nutritionist,was talking to the pet parent
and he said well, how low do youwant to go?
Because, in reality, theseproteins so you've got this role
(27:53):
, okay which people call rawright, and it is raw, but in
that row we've got meat, bones,organ and fat and people get it
in their head that that's 80%protein.
No, there's 80% of the meat inthere.
No, there's 80% of the meat inthere, but the actual protein is
(28:17):
somewhere in the 14 to 18%range.
Okay, so how low do we want togo?
And we would say you don't needto go low.
What we need to understand iswhat is causing the creatinine
in the bun to increase Now?
Is causing the creatinine inthe bun to increase Now?
This is a seasoned raw feeder,so they do know that the bun and
(28:37):
the creatinine is going to behigher in raw fed dogs, but we
don't have the numbers.
They are saying that thenumbers are higher.
The question that Brian had DrJasek was is there.
He thought that he had readthis someplace that there was
another number, that if it waselevated because I know when you
(28:58):
look at numbers you not onlyare saying all right, why is
this elevated at this time?
Was there some type of anassault that the body is just
doing its job and thereforethose numbers are higher and
it's working and they'll comeback down but he wanted to know
whether there was another numberthat would suggest that it
(29:20):
wasn't one of the organs thatwas having an issue.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (29:27):
That it wasn't one of the organs that was having an
issue.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Or that it could be misdiagnosed due to just looking
at the bun and the creatinine.
Should we be looking atsomething else as well?
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Yeah.
So the other indicator I look atfor kidney issues.
So it depends on how high theyare.
First of all.
You know, if they're just likea few points out of the normal
range, then I see either normalfluctuation, or you commonly see
that in older pets or it'sbecause they're just like a few
points out of the normal range.
Then I see either normalfluctuation or you commonly see
that older pets, or it's becausethey're eating raw.
If they're getting you know,higher, like, say, a BUN over 50
(30:03):
or a creatinine maybe overthree, then maybe we're starting
to see some issues with thekidneys, which just tells us
that the kidneys maybe need someadditional support.
But the other thing that I lookat is phosphorus.
Well, before I say that, I wantto say something.
There is one other lab valuethat's looked at that I don't
(30:26):
look at.
It's called the SDMA.
It's a relatively new.
Well, new, probably in the last10 years.
It's newer.
I don't find it to correlate.
Well, it can go, it can beelevated without the BN and
creatinine being elevated, andthey'll still say the pet has
kidney issues and needs to be onthe protein diets and all that.
(30:48):
I think they come out withthese new tests just so they can
diagnose more stuff.
Personally, I have not seenthat one correlate, so I don't
look at the SDMA, but thephosphorus.
So one of the things that thekidneys do is clear phosphorus
and if the kidneys are trulylosing function, so they're
truly, truly can't do their jobanymore, phosphorus goes up, and
(31:11):
when the phosphorus goes up,that's a sign that we are
starting to truly havecompromised kidney function.
If we don't have an elevatedphosphorus and the Bionicratin
are up, then you know we'restill got a good window there to
do some support, maybe someherbs to help support the
kidneys.
(31:31):
Again, if they're above acertain value, minor elevations
I don't even worry about, youknow, if they're, if they're
being fed raw, and even if wehave the higher values, I don't
change your diet either.
I just do more herbs and stufffor kidneys because they need
the right, they need propernutrition.
(31:51):
You have to give the kidneys thenutrients it needs to be a
healthy kidney.
And if you put them on theseultra low protein diets that are
, by the way, people worriedabout pancreatitis, you know how
they get dogs to eat these lowprotein diets because they don't
have any flavor.
They put a bunch of fat in them.
That's what makes them, youknow, taste good to the dogs.
(32:13):
So then you're setting them upfor.
And these are unhealthy fatstoo.
So then you're setting them upfor other problems there.
But these low protein dietsthey're not even giving them
enough nutrition.
So I get just always have to becareful not to micromanage any
one nutrient, whether it'sprotein or fat or zinc or iron
(32:37):
or whatever.
The thing that's getting pickedon is you have to be really
careful not to micromanage anyone nutrient.
And look at you know otherthings that might've been going
on with the dog.
You know I've had clients likewhen I talked to you and like
their dog all of a sudden goesin, gets blood work, got some
(32:58):
elevated kidney values and wetalk about what's when I said
cause the dog had been a littledehydrated, cause if they're
even a little dehydrated, thosevalues go up and like, yeah,
actually we went for a reallylong hike before that blood work
was done and so maybe the doghadn't had enough to drink that
day.
It would have gotten caught uplater in the day.
(33:19):
But the timing of the bloodwork, or a dog that has vomiting
or diarrhea, like Lazi, did youknow she's dehydrated.
So the kidney values, um, aregoing to be up, but the
conventional vets just put thislabel on kidney disease and
they'll give it some stage stageone, two, three, you know, just
to scare people even more.
(33:39):
So you got to be on this.
You know low protein diet but Ithink a lot of people don't
understand.
I've had people say well, Idon't think a hundred percent
protein is healthy for my dog.
I'm like well, neither do I.
Where do you get that?
Yeah, 100 protein, right, areyou feeding like a protein
powder or something like I don'tknow?
(34:00):
Because raw food, yeah, around15 protein.
So it's not, it's not highprotein and it's a species
appropriate proteins.
If you're feeding a high pro, Imean, if people look, look at a
bag of kibble, cause it's drymatter.
Some of those are 40 to 50%protein and it's like corn and
soybean and really unhealthyprotein.
(34:21):
So dogs might do better to cutback on those proteins.
But on a meat protein, youdon't.
You don't need to, you don'tneed to cut it back.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Yeah, that's the thing.
We don't quantify things much,you know.
We're like well, this proteinis not the same as that protein.
Is it plant protein?
Is it animal protein?
Is it?
You know what kind of proteinis it?
And it's just like a calorie.
Well, which calorie are weconcerned about?
Are we concerned about theprotein?
Are we concerned about the fat?
(34:50):
Are we concerned about theprotein?
Are we concerned about the fat?
Are we concerned about the carb?
Which one?
Right?
So, because, because they'reall different, and that's that's
the thing that that we try toget down to, and I think that
sometimes it irritates petparents because they just are
like, I don't know, I just justjust give me the low protein
diet.
You're already on it, You'realready there, Right?
(35:14):
So that's great information.
You know, listen to you talk,and you've said this many, many
times that vets today are onlygo by the diagnostic tools and I
was listening to a podcast withwith Tucker Carlson and it was
(35:35):
a guy who was talking about thepharmaceutical industry and and
and actually the antidepressantarena right, ssris, painkillers,
all these different types ofthings and he was primarily
talking about depression, but hesaid the exact same thing.
He said, look, the professiondoesn't allow for you to really
(36:00):
understand why somebody isdepressed, right, why?
And is it their job?
Is it their marriage?
Is it their relationships?
You know kind of what is it?
And he said so they puteverybody in a box.
And he said everybody isdifferent.
(36:21):
And he was talking about thiswas a Tucker Carlson interview,
if I didn't already say that hewas just talking about the
danger, the danger of this andhow sometimes these
antidepressants and well, notsometimes, many times they cause
actual brain injuries.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Yeah.
And leave people just to commitsuicide and things.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Right.
So Tucker Carlson asked himabout testing right, because we
get that a lot in this world andhe said there is no testing
that's going to be done.
They said it's obvious when youlook at people right, when you
are counseling with people, andthey come off antidepressants
(37:09):
and they have massive anxiety orthey're talking about little
holes in their brains, it's just, it's crazy.
So my whole point to that is itis systematic throughout the
whole healthcare arena and Idon't think that pet parents
think that extends over to theirpets and it does especially to
(37:33):
the pets.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
Because those depressed people too, I bet,
would be tremendously helped bya diet change.
They bet they don't ask themhow much sugar do you eat.
Are you eating healthy fats tohelp feed your brain?
Are you getting outside andgetting exercise?
Go out for walks in thesunshine?
They don't ask them that either.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
Yeah, and it was just .
It's crazy because I, as I justlooked at chat GPT, I think
that that if we're able to, justnow, we're not going to do Dr
Google, we're going to do chatGPT solutions.
Right, how, how many of thoseare we going to get wrong?
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Right.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
Right, how many of pets and people will suffer,
right?
I love what Robert Kennedy isdoing right now, but I said this
to Brian on the podcast theother night Probably didn't, but
on the news they were showingthe list of companies that were
(38:35):
getting on board with the MAGAright, make America Healthy
Again.
Maha, sorry, and I was struckby this All of these companies
that had foods that they haddangerous chemicals in that they
could take out and they werelike, oh well, we'll just take
(38:56):
this one out, we're getting onboard.
Yay for us.
And I'm like so all thesecompanies have known that
they've had these dangerouschemicals in our food, in the
pet food, and they get to justtake one out and go, hey, we're
on board.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
But they're leaving other dangerous stuff in there
Right.
Yeah, and now they're the goodguys.
They've been poisoning us allalong in our pets, but now
they're the good guys becausethey're taking one thing out.
It's all like that.
It's just so like programmed,you know, like do one good thing
and then they're good.
But you know, don't talk aboutall the other stuff that's in
(39:33):
there.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
Great.
And I love the fact thatPresident Trump is saying all
right on these COVID shots.
You told me they were safe, youtold me they were this and blah
, blah, blah.
So show me the evidence now.
That's what you told me.
You told me blah, blah, blah.
Show me the evidence now.
That's what you told me.
You told me blah, blah, blah.
Show me the evidence.
And I was thinking about yougoing to Weston, a Price, and I
(40:00):
still, I still, you know, amhopeful that when you talk and I
was going to ask you will yoube talking about vaccines while
you're there the rabies vaccines?
Speaker 2 (40:11):
I'll be mentioning vaccines.
I mean, I'm talking in a littlebroader strokes about, um, that
pets are naturally healthy,that you don't need to go to the
vet, that vaccine I'm notgetting deep into the rabies
rabbit hole, but I'm saying wedon't make pets healthy by
starting pumping them full ofpharmaceuticals the second
(40:32):
they're out of their mama.
They need a healthy mama, youknow, taking care of them,
nursing them.
They don't need pharmaceuticalsto be healthy.
So in that realm I am.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
Well, weston A Price is a is a large organization and
I would think that that wouldbe something that Bobby Kennedy
would be looking at or couldlook at or could hear about.
So I'm still I know it's a,it's a long shot, but I'm still
hopeful that because of whatthey're bringing up on the
(41:07):
people side that maybe we willbe able to change something.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
Well, I think I, I think, and the reason I'm really
, I mean, it's a number ofreasons.
I'm really excited to bespeaking at Weston A Price, but
you know they haven't hadsomebody in there talking about
pet health.
I'm the first one and it's likeI think you you know, you were
mentioning this earlier Peopledon't always go back and forth.
They don't take what theyrealize about their pet and
(41:33):
apply the same principles tothem and they don't take what
they know about themselves andapply the same principles to
their pets.
So these people that are intoWeston a price and they're in,
they're buying raw milk anddoing all this really, really
healthy, natural, wholesome foodfor themselves.
I bet you a lot of those peopleare dumping kibble in their
(41:56):
pet's bowl and maybe they don'tknow any different, maybe they
just haven't had the rightinformation.
There just aren't that manypeople out there talking about
it.
So I agree, I'm hoping thatgetting in front of an audience
like this and introducing theseprinciples that we have to treat
it's kind of the principleslike we have to treat animals,
(42:19):
species, appropriately, and I'mkind of incorporating like some
farm animals too, because a lotof people there do have dairy
cows and goats and things likethat.
But you have to let cows out onthe pasture grazing and dogs
and cats need to be eating meatand chickens need to be out
there scratching and you knowthey need to be doing what
nature intended them to be, tobe doing in in order to be
(42:44):
healthy and stop going to thevet.
I'm literally going to kind ofa you know, one like summary
thing is yes, I'm a vet tellingyou don't take your animals to
the vet unless they broke a legor something like that.
So that's kind of the premise.
So I'm hoping you know it'll.
It'll make a difference.
(43:05):
I'd like to believe that I wasasked for some good reason,
cause you're damn good.
That's why I don't know aboutthat.
I'm going to the AHVMA thisweekend, this next weekend,
coming up, and we'll see.
We have an idea what holisticvets are up to these days.
Last year it was just a bunchof us old fogies and that was a
(43:27):
little frightening because we'reonly going to be doing this so
long.
We need some youngsters.
But I did get an email from theAHVMA and they're um, sounds
like they're trying to revivetheir student chapter, so they
have a S A H VMA where theyactually, um, it's a mentorship
(43:49):
program for vet students, so Isigned up.
I'm like, yeah, I'd be happy todo that If I could talk to some
of these kids in school and say, look, this is what's going to
happen when you get out ofschool.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
Look at that.
You know, look at that.
That's what you've been wantingto do.
Speaker 2 (44:03):
That's what I've been wanting to do so, signed up for
their mentor.
They had this going on, but Ithink it kind of faded.
And you know they need to haveprograms to bring these kids to
the conference too.
You know, as conferences getexpensive, you know, and for if
you're a student, you know bythe time you pay for the
conference and the hotel, and ifyou got to fly, you know you're
(44:24):
several thousand dollars to goand and they need to help get
these kids are getting sponsoredand keep them excited and so,
yeah, so that gave me some hopethat maybe we can get get some
new blood out there, thinking,thinking this way.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
Well, when you go, you, or before you go, ask
Weston A Price if they're goingto videotape your talk and if
you can get a copy of it and ifyou're able to share any of that
, because your people would loveto hear that talk.
Speaker 2 (44:52):
I'll ask them, I'll send cause.
I'm in communication with them.
I'm always asking them allkinds of questions.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
I don't know.
All right, everybody Listen.
You can work with Dr Judy Jasek.
I highly suggest that you get asecond opinion on pancreatitis,
on the elevated bun and creatin.
Um, work with her before youmake a dramatic decision to
lower the protein or the fat inthe real animal fat.
There are some tweaks that wecan make.
They're going to keep your dogoff pharmaceuticals and healthy
(45:24):
for longer in life.
Okay, so get over to a h avetcom, a h a vetcom.
Get your dog on a speciesappropriate diet.
If you have questions, we'll beglad to answer them right here
on the podcast.
Just email us at info at rawdog food and company dot com,
because here, raw dog food, yourpet, your pet's health, is our
(45:45):
business.
See, now, I threw myself upbecause I was out of cadence,
okay you're on autopilot.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
If you think about it like, what do I say?
Speaker 1 (45:52):
now, yeah, your pet's health is our business.
And what dr jay said?
Speaker 2 (45:58):
friends, don't leave friends.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
Let friends be, kibble y'all, that's right all
right, everybody, we'll see younext week.
Bye-bye, oh snap.
Find out how you can start yourdog on the road to health and
longevity.
Go to rawdogfoodandcompanycom,where friends don't let friends
feed kibble and where your pet'shealth is our business.
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