March 28, 2025 • 40 mins
What happens when a vet student feeds their snake a species-appropriate diet but gives their cat kibble? "I'm not sure, but that's what I do" is the unsettling answer that encapsulates everything wrong with conventional veterinary education today.
DeDe Murcer Moffett and Dr. Judy Jasek, DVM dive deep into the world of feline nutrition, examining why cats are suffering from preventable digestive issues when the solution is staring us right in the face. Through the case of Onyx, a two-year-old cat with chronic regurgitation, they demonstrate how veterinarians often recommend expensive diagnostic testing and prescription diets instead of addressing the fundamental problem – cats simply aren't designed to eat processed kibble.
The conversation explores Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth (SIBO) and how conventional medications, surgeries, and carbohydrate-heavy diets disrupt the delicate digestive balance of obligate carnivores. Dr. Jasik shares practical advice for transitioning kibble-addicted cats to species-appropriate raw diets, acknowledging the challenges while offering solutions that work. She explains why cats on processed foods become "borderline diabetics," stuck on a blood sugar roller coaster that makes transitioning difficult but necessary.
Perhaps most profoundly, the discussion touches on Rudolf Steiner's perspective that all animal diseases ultimately stem from human intervention – a sobering reminder that our pets' health problems often begin with the environments and diets we create for them. For anyone struggling with a cat's digestive issues or simply wanting to provide optimal nutrition, this episode offers both the scientific rationale and practical steps to make meaningful changes.
Ready to transform your cat's health through proper nutrition? Visit rawdogfoodandcompany.com where your pet's health is their business, and remember – friends don't let friends feed kibble.
Raw Dog Food and Company where Your Pet's Health is Our Business and Friends Don't Let Friends Feed Kibble
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Oh snap.
Well, hello Raw Feeders.
I'm Deedee Merson Moffitt, ceoof Raw Dog Feeding Company,
where your pet's health is ourbusiness and we're friends, like
my friend Dr Judy Jasik.
Man, she didn't let friendsfeed kibble, now do ya no?
Speaker 2 (00:16):
way Enemies and not anybody Frenemies.
I don't let anybody feed it.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
What is a frenemy?
Why did that term come about?
Is it a person that you thoughtwas your friend that became
your enemy?
Is it what?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
is it.
Maybe sometimes they're yourfriend, sometimes your enemy
depending on the day.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
There it is frenemies .
I was like what is that Like abipolar personality, right Like
somebody like what you said,some days they like you and some
days they don't.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Right, I don't know, makes sense to me.
I don't know what else the wordwould mean Frenemies.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Don't let frenemies feed kibble, that's right.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Then we're covered.
Don't feed the stuff.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Right, it's so bad.
And we're going to talk aboutcats and, uh, their gut health
when they're on kibble.
Uh, we really need the kittiesto get.
I know that we're a dog foodcompany, but we just didn't have
a long enough name.
You know, dog and cat.
Listen to this.
This is just funny.
(01:21):
Brian sent me this.
He said this is an actualconversation, dr Jason, with a
vet student at a UC Davis vetconference.
Now, brian wasn't having thisconversation, this was, somebody
else posted this.
Okay, but they said this is anactual conversation with a vet
student.
And so this person says do youhave any pets?
(01:44):
And the vet student says yes.
And this other person says well, what do you feed them?
And she said well, my snakegets mice and my cat gets kibble
.
And so this other person saysso your snake gets a species
appropriate diet, but your catdoes not.
And the vet's answer is is soprofound I was just shocked by
(02:10):
this profoundness.
And she says, in answer to yourcat doesn't need an appropriate
species appropriate that shesays well, I'm not sure, but
that's what I do.
I'm not sure, but that's what Ido.
Wow, yeah, I'm not sure.
Well, look, rest assured thatkibble is not species
(02:35):
appropriate.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Right.
Not for anything actually, lordy, lordy, speaking of kibble,
have you ever seen the moviesecondhand lions?
They go to town to get food forthe lion and guess what they
get?
There's bags of lion chow.
Wait a second, that's a lionchow like perina dog chow,
(03:00):
perina cat chow.
They have these big bags oflion chow.
Is this for for for sure?
I don't.
I don't know if they, I don'tthink they actually make it, but
that was just in the movie.
But I just thought that wasfunny because you know, there's
there's dog chow and cat chowand I think there's horse chow.
I mean, I think preen makes allthese different chows and all
(03:21):
these different processed foodsfor all the different species
and you, you know, according tothe movie anyway, they actually
make a lion chow, I thinkactually the lions, like in zoos
.
I think they actually get aspecies appropriate diet, which
is also really interesting,because why do the wild felines
like the lions and tigers in thezoo?
I really don't think they'refeeding a big bowl of Karina
(03:44):
lion chow.
I think they're feeding them,you know, fresh meat.
Yeah, that's what they'regetting.
So why do our kitties domestickitties lose?
Speaker 1 (03:54):
out Because this vet says so.
This vet says well, I'm notcertain, but I know that you
need to feed heels and sciencediet.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
That's what I'm being taught.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
That's what I'm being taught in vet school.
That's right.
That's what someone told mesomewhere some time ago and I
just keep perpetuating the storyand I don't know why all these
kitties are coming in sick.
Yeah, I couldn't tell you, it'sgood, it's business.
You know, and here's the thing,dr Jasek, I don't even know
that they consciously think,well, this is good for business.
(04:29):
They just don't think, justlike this vet.
I'm not sure, I don't know, Ijust does it.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
It's just, it's autopilot, and I think that's
what education does these daysis.
It does not encourage thinkingcritically thinking.
It's like just do what you'retold, be a good little vet
student and follow a standard ofcare, and we'll give you this
piece of paper that says you canpractice and don't rock the
boat and you'll do fine, You'llmake a lot of money and you
(05:04):
won't get in trouble.
That's pretty much the state ofthings.
Just don't think.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Okay, I just have to laugh because one of the big
conglomerates and their taglineis science did that?
Maybe Blue Buffalo?
I can't remember which one itwas.
I was just like, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Well, what else have we been told?
To follow the science, and itdidn't work out so well.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
We'll see.
This is the problem.
Yes, yes, yeah.
Science, you know, I think,needs a bit clearer definition
of what exactly science is.
This nutritionist, right, wastalking to this person in our
family who's dealing with cancerand she said and you know, I
(05:50):
just have to keep my mouth shut.
Sometimes you can do that, notreally well.
She said this.
She said now you know foodsafety.
And I thought, oh boy, here wego, oh geez, food safety.
And I thought, oh boy, here wego.
She was like you can't eat anyraw foods, you know, make sure
(06:20):
it's all cooked.
You know, no sushi, no rawfoods, no, everything's got to
be.
You know, no pink, this andthat.
And I thought, oh my, if sheknew that we were raw dog food
feeders.
And she kept talking about thisbacteria.
Right, we can't, you know,because we can't let this
bacteria get, you know, intoyour body, because you're
compromised, because you'regoing through chemo, right,
(06:41):
right.
And so I did stop her rightthere and I I bet you that the
person that was with me waswanting to kick me, right, they
were like please don't cause ascene.
But I just said can you tell mewhat bacteria are we talking
about?
Big three that they're alwaystalking about in the raw diet
listeria, salmonella and e colcoli.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
E coli, yep yep, couldn't have guessed that.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
But you know, dr Jason, we've had a lot of
customers you have.
I have ask us if they have beendiagnosed with cancer and
they're going through any kindof therapy.
Can they continue to feed theirdog a raw diet?
You and I are going to say yes,but I'm sitting there listening
(07:29):
to these doctors and thesenutritionists say oh, no, no, no
, no, no.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Oh, yeah, no, they'll say it.
And the other thing that youknow people will say in that, in
that circumstance that I'veheard is that you know, like,
don't let your dog lick yourface and stuff.
This is another big fear peoplebe like okay, I've got there's
a person in my household that'simmunocompromised for whatever
reason, and I'm feeding my dograw and you know that raw food
(08:00):
can get in their beard orsomething or get around their
mouth and then they go and theythey lick my dog's face.
That's why, like a lot ofservice agencies that you know
train dogs to be service dogs togo into hospitals and
facilities and stuff, they willnot let you in if you're feeding
raw, because you're going to bespreading these horrible
(08:20):
bacteria to the patients, someof which might be
immunocompromised.
It's like it stays on theirmouth.
I've had people ask me how do Iclean my dog's beard after they
eat?
I'm like, why are you cleaningtheir beard?
Because now that food you knowit was like it was kind of
baffled Like what do you?
Why are you cleaning the beard?
Oh, because all that food getsstuck there and then all that
(08:43):
bacteria is there a little snacklater.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
I don't know like, right, and you know that
information of them testing,right, the bacteria load in a
raw dog food's mouth versus akibble fed dog, uh, and that
whole study somehow just kind oflike gone, you know, and what
they found was that there weremore so-called dangerous
(09:10):
bacteria in the kibble fed dogs,right, than there were the raw
fed dogs.
And you've got all of thatkibble that stays in their teeth
.
Their teeth go bad, you know,and then they don't have a
healthy mouth.
That's one Number two, kibblefed dogs.
It comes out in their skin,they have that dander, they
(09:32):
stink and they, you know, youtalk about a dog that doesn't
look or feel clean or even smellclean.
That's kibble fed dogs.
They're going into thehospitals.
But all of that changed, right,the real study, all of that
changed when Perina decided togive, you know, a big grant to
(09:56):
this, the therapy dogorganization.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
So there wasn't a doge.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Back then there wasn't a doge you go, wasn't a
doge.
You could figure up where we're, you know putting the money,
but anyway, um.
So you know, this is somethingthat we have to deal with on a
consistent basis and I justdon't, um, I don't know, I don't
know it's very, I see, I don'tknow, I don't know it's very, I
see, I see, because of how muchtime I've had to spend in the
(10:27):
hospitals, I see where thatnarrative is so strong and
scares people to death.
And yet Christine Massey can'tget any proof of it, right?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
But they don't.
They ignore that data, thatdata that says that none of this
has ever been proven.
Viruses have never been provento exist.
There's been nothing proventhat these supposedly bad
bacteria cause disease.
They just choose to ignore thatdata and just believe the
popular narrative because that'seasier and they get to keep
(11:05):
their jobs and you know, just gogo along to get along.
That's what a lot of people do,sadly, and in the human medical
profession and in theveterinary profession I'm gonna
have to ask chat gpt how do youpull people's heads out of their
sphincter?
to let me know what the answerto that one is.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Listen, how does one pop the head out of the big
sphincter?
Okay, don't know.
Oh boy, we get in trouble forsaying stuff like that.
But you know what?
I don't care, it's fineSometimes you just need to laugh
a little.
Sometimes you need a littlehumor break.
I'm laughing.
(11:49):
I'm laughing Are you laughing?
I'm laughing.
So let's talk about, let's talk, let's continue on with
bacteria, shall we Sure?
Speaker 2 (11:57):
I love bacteria.
Bacteria are my friends.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Right, germs are me or something like that.
There was a me, or somethinglike that there was a shirt or
something germs are dreams areus?
yeah, germs are us, right and um, all right, so here's a, here's
a question for you.
So you deal with kitty cats,and um, there's a sweet nurse
and she has a cat.
(12:22):
This cat is not very old, drJasek, two years old,
asymptomatic, pretty much Okay,except for one thing, and that
is he vomits, or she vomits, I'mnot sure.
I think it's he Not sure.
Anyway, onyx, I believe hisname is, and he regurgitates
(12:45):
food.
Okay, so should we, or shouldwe not investigate what kind of
food you feed?
That'd be a good place to start,but you know what the vets have
suggested that she put herkitty cat on is our favorite
hydrolyzed protein.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Right, and all you get carnivore on plant-based
protein that's so broken downthat there's hardly even any
protein left there.
That makes sense, right right.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
But you know what, maybe the vet is a friend of
this vet's, the one who said Idon't know, I don't know why,
you know, the snake gets speciesappropriate, but my cat doesn't
.
I just do it, I just does it?
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Because the snake vets say feed a species
appropriate diet.
The cat vets say feed a speciesappropriate diet.
The cat vets say feedhydrolyzed protein.
They go to different parts ofthe vet school, that's right.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
The snake school or the cat school, all right.
So, um, you have taken a lookat onyx's blood work, um, and
you've taken a look at his labs.
Frankly, it it sounds like tous that we just first and
foremost need to switch the foodand then see what happens.
But let's talk a little bitabout the blood work.
(14:03):
What did you see?
Anything that alarmed you?
Speaker 2 (14:06):
I mean, I think it probably a diet change wouldn't
fix but the major organfunctions were really good.
Liver enzymes were all normal,kidney function was normal.
Thyroid function looked good.
White blood cells were low,which isn't necessarily a
problem.
But you know that couldindicate or that could be
because of poor nutrition.
(14:27):
You know that.
You know the bone marrow maybeisn't kicking out enough enough
white blood cells.
Of course that will keep thevets from getting on board with
raw feeding, because I'll saywell cat has low white blood
cells, so therefore youshouldn't feed raw because of
the bacteria, even thoughfeeding the raw might help that
(14:47):
problem.
So that was just a little bitof an issue, probably something
to keep an eye on.
I think the one interestingthing was that the b vitamins
were really high, the b12 andthe folate um and the only thing
I can think of for that isthere's just a lot of it in the
food they're feeding becausethey put artificial vitamins and
minerals in these foods andbecause b vitamins are not toxic
(15:11):
, like if a pet gets more thanthey need, they just pee it out.
There's a water solublevitamins, your fat soluble
vitamins like vitamin D.
You got to be careful not tooverdose them.
I think there's been some casesof that in some dry food diets,
but B vitamins.
They can just put tons and tonsof them in there, and so that
my and and and their theirnervous system boosters.
(15:34):
So they give them lots of energy, so they can feed them this
really crappy diet it doesn'thave very good nutrition, and
then they feel good so they canhave energy and stuff.
So, um, I just thought that waskind of an interesting, um
interesting finding.
But, um, you know, nothing elsereally showed up in the kitty's
blood work.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
You know, I did see in there where the vets were
suggesting that it could be SIBO.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Small intestinal bacterial overgrowth.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
You know, obviously that's going to be a
gastrointestinal issue as well,right, and you're going to have
some food sensitivities, somefood intolerances.
Um, there's a lot that goeswith it.
They say, these dogs that areactually have SIBO and cats are
very, very ill.
What do you see?
What do you think about SIBO?
(16:23):
Um, have you seen cats wherethey look like they have this
type of an issue and and youjust remove the offending foods
and it clears up?
What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Well, I actually myself was diagnosed with SIBO
many years ago.
I had intestinal issues andwhat I was told was that it was
a it's a motility issue, meaningyou're not supposed to have a
lot of bacteria growing in yoursmall intestine.
They're supposed to be down inyour large intestine, your colon
.
The small intestine should berelatively free of bacteria and
(17:05):
part of like what happens likeovernight or in between meals,
there's this contraction of yoursmall intestine that kind of
cleans all the stuff out and anybacteria that's in there goes
down into the colon.
And if it's not moving well, ifyou have a motility issue, then
the bacteria will stay in there.
And then they're they sort oflike.
(17:26):
I think they like ferment thefood, sort of.
For testing it, it was kind ofinteresting.
You do like this, this breathtest, where you just do like
breathe into this tube and thebacteria supposedly let off a
gas, and then it, and then it ittests for this gas.
Now I went to a like afunctional medicine doctor and
(17:48):
they didn't.
They'd not use antibiotics, usea whole bunch of different
herbs and stuff, and I will tellyou I felt a whole lot better.
And then there's a special diet.
There's certain diets, likeyou've got to get off of, like
carbs and stuff.
There's certain things thatwill supposedly feed the
bacteria and you kind of learn.
I mean like I know, likethere's some things I eat and
(18:08):
then I just don't feel that.
I feel kind of like bloatyafterwards and I mean I don't
know if it's truly feeding thebacteria or if I mean, honestly,
I think the more I learn aboutthis is having a healthy diet so
that your intestines aresupported nutritionally.
But then also stress, becausestress will shut down your gut.
(18:31):
So if you're stressed you'retense, like I know.
If I'm like upset aboutsomething or rushing around to
get a million things to do and Ieat like I'll get a tummy ache,
well, because your intestinesaren't working, because you're
in this fight or flight, youknow running around doing stuff
and your body thinks you'rerunning from the you know tiger,
when all you're really doing isrunning errands, but body
(18:52):
doesn't know the difference.
So you know you're, you knowyou're tensed up, I think in
pets and honestly I haven't seenthis diagnosed very much.
I've heard, I've seen, a fewcases come in with a diagnosis
of sebo and I don't actuallyknow exactly how they're testing
for this in pets.
I kind of doubt that they'regetting the kitties to blow into
(19:14):
the little tube.
I want to see that.
Just saying, I think vets areprobably guessing because they
do a lot of presumptivediagnosing.
These are the symptoms.
Fits this diagnosis.
And I swear medicine is justgoing like down this like AI
(19:34):
path where they just like, okay,these are the they're probably
putting.
This does play computeralgorithms.
These are the symptoms, theseare the potential diagnoses.
Okay, these are the three.
It could be IBD, ibs, sibo,sibo.
That's diagnosed that one along time, let's call it SIBO In
this kitty.
You know, I mean I I hate tosay it, but I think that's the
direction that a lot of medicineis going.
(19:56):
And then they pick thatdiagnosis and then like okay,
what are the treatments?
But the treatments inconventional veterinary medicine
are never changing the diet,which is really what needs to be
done, because the bottom lineis any of this GI stuff, it's
inflammation.
All disease is reallyinflammation.
It's just the body is inflamed,it's not working right.
(20:19):
And what's the?
How do we help that?
We've got to feed them right,we got to give the gut what it's
meant to be, what's meant to beput in there, and cats are
obligate carnivores so it needsto be a meat based diet.
So if you're putting a plantbased diet that's dehydrated, so
it's dry in there, it's likethe worst thing.
(20:40):
And it just makes sense to methat, just in the case of SIBO,
that you've got plant materialin there that the cat body
doesn't know how to digest soyou probably are going to get
bacteria, you know, starting towork on it, and then if it
doesn't empty appropriately, ifyou don't have that good
motility, it's going to sit inthere and start to ferment.
(21:01):
But but the fix is just feedthem the right diet.
For all of it, conventionalmedicine, they tend to put them
on steroids and or antibioticsto antibiotics, probably to kill
the bacteria if they diagnoseSIBO, but for all the other
inflammatory stuff they just usesteroids like what you said.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
What causes SIBO?
And and there are a lot ofthings that can cause it.
And the body has many positivemechanisms to prevent SIBO from
occurring, like stomach acidsecretion, right, biosecretion,
something called MMC, which ismigrating motor complex.
(21:42):
So that's the waves of thatsmall intestinal wall that moves
that waste and bacteria throughthat digestive tract and to the
colon.
You've also got your immunesystem and then there's a valve.
It's a one-way valve thatallows the flow of contents into
the large intestine butprevents it from reflexing back
(22:02):
into the small intestine.
And so in order to get SIBO youhave to have one or more of
these protective mechanisms fail.
They have to fail in the body.
And so what causes damage to theMMC, that migrating motor
complex?
(22:23):
You know it can be surgicaldrugs or sedations, that
ketamine is used in a cocktailfor pre-meds sedation, or even
dentals or nail clippings or earcleanings.
That can really damage thismigrating motor complex.
And I again, I don't think thatpet parents look at their
(22:47):
animals.
If somebody of authority or inthe um health profession gives
this surgical drug or sedation,they don't look at that and
think that could be somethingdamaging to the body, right?
Speaker 2 (23:04):
right, but but it can't I don't think about the,
the effects of that.
You know they have to.
They'd have to ask or look upthe, the, the, the package
insert.
I was listening to a podcastthis morning and this is like on
the human side, but they weretalking about these black box
warnings, this and a lot ofhuman drugs they have to buy.
So if a drug has a reportedside effect that could be
(23:29):
life-threatening there they haveto put these like black box
warnings on it so that they'reright there on the label.
Like this is the stuff thatcould potentially happen.
Like why they're even usingthese medications.
I don't know, but like peoplearen't even aware that like
things like antidepressant drugscan cause an increase in
(23:51):
suicide.
People can become suicidal onthem.
People are not informed ofthese effects and the point of
the podcast was you've got toask if you're being prescribed a
drug.
Your kids are being prescribeda drug.
Find out what's on that label,and it's the same, I think, for
pets.
They have to ask your vet andyou can even look this stuff up
(24:12):
online.
You get the name of the drug.
You could look up ketamine andyou could look up.
You know what are the potentialadverse adverse effects.
But a lot of them like youwouldn't think about.
But like any anesthetic drug,any sedative, is going to slow
down the gut.
It's going to affect the normalgut because it's it's.
(24:33):
It's slowing down the centralnervous system and anesthetic
drug has to.
That's how it makes you like inunconscious.
Ketamine is actually like athey call it a dissociative
where where it's it doesn'tsuppress, like your respiration
as much, but it makes your, itcan cause kind of like
(24:56):
hallucinations.
It makes your your nervoussystem a little wonky.
It was actually there was atime there where people were
breaking into vet clinics andgetting it.
It was sold like on the streetas a street drug because it
could make you hallucinate andstuff when you, when you took it
.
So something like that's goingto have all kinds of effects on
the body and it's different forevery person or every animal.
(25:18):
That's the thing.
One animal might be reallysensitive to the effects of a
certain drug, another one mightnot bother them at all.
So and drug interactions so ifa pet has surgery, you don't,
and then they get four or fivedifferent medications.
So they're going to get theanesthetic, they're going to get
some pain meds, they might getsome antibiotics, they're going
(25:40):
to get some painkillers.
You got like at least four drugsthat are interacting together.
Nobody studies how these drugsinteract together, so there's
all sorts of possibilities.
Boatload of vaccines in thefirst two years of life, so you
know that's entering into it too.
So I think I think anypharmaceuticals play a really
(26:02):
huge role and it just kind ofwell.
My vet said that it was safe,so I went ahead and did it and
they just don't connect the dotsthat now this gut problem could
be related to some drugs, maybeeven, of course, the
antibiotics the cat had sixmonths ago and and and the one
that you and I dislike the most,um, the acid reflux medications
(26:25):
.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
where it actually decreases the gastric acidity,
right, those medications painrelie, pain relievers, opioids,
tramadol.
Also, altering the structuralcomposition of an animal,
anatomical changes result inbacterial clearance being
blocked right and so adhesionslike spay or neuters or
(26:47):
abdominal surgeries spay, Iguess, neuters or abdominal
surgeries Spay, I guess, wouldbe the bigger one.
But any kind of obstruction cancause that Once the function of
the body is altered andbacteria are not being killed
off in the stomach or the smallintestine as they should be.
Now you feed a diet high insugar and refined carbohydrates,
(27:12):
processed foods, you know allof this different type of stuff
and you create a problem.
And you said something you'vebeen listening to.
Who did you say you've beenlistening to?
That said, all animal diseaseare created by humans.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Oh, I've been reading some of Rudolf Steiner's work.
So Rudolf Steiner started theprinciple of anthroposophic
medicine, which is basicallyholistic medicine mind, body,
spirit.
But he actually has written andI'm actually reading an article
now by a veterinarian thatstudied Steiner's work, so he's
quoting steiner, um, and but he,steiner, gets into the
(27:58):
energetics of disease that it'snot just we can't.
We don't just treat thephysical, we have to treat the
our energetic bodies as well.
But he says that all animaldiseases come from humans, the
energetics of the humans.
In their field there's like akind of a disruption in the
(28:19):
vital force of the animal thatthey get out of balance and then
that's why disease shows up.
But that was pretty profound.
He said all animal diseases are, you know, come from humans.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
I bet our pet parents aren't going to be very happy
hearing that this one might makeus unpopular, didi, I feel, for
our pet parents, because thediagnostic testing, dr Drasik,
is so expensive yeah Right, soexpensive.
I think she was saying thatthey want to run more tests to
(28:55):
kind of determine what'shappening Now.
I and so I said, well,determine what's happening now?
I and so I said, well, what arethe other symptoms?
That's it just thisregurgitation of the food at the
moment?
Right, and I said I I really do, uh, want to encourage you to
change the food to a speciesappropriate, okay, species.
(29:16):
That means the, the food theywere created to eat, okay
species.
Appropriatedietcies-appropriate diet.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Mice are species-appropriate.
For cats too, by the way, notjust snakes.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
That's right, that's right, and just let them get
their birds and their mice andtheir snakes.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Yeah, actually cats could eat snakes too.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Yeah, they can, anyway.
So there are some tasks thatyou could do, but again, but you
know what, why not just trychanging the diet.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Like right, you got to feed the cat anyway, Right,
why not just feed a diet?
And you know I'm not a huge fanof canned food either, because
a lot of it is just like kibble,but it's got more moisture in
it.
Sometimes just that addedmoisture will help, though.
I mean, if she just didn't wantto try the raw, trying a canned
(30:10):
food sometimes helps, and thatwould at least show her that
it's the diet and then maybethen she'd be willing to go one
step further and actually trythe raw.
Like why spend all this moneyon tests when it could just be
the diet and just, I mean, yougot to feed it anyway.
Just try the diet change, Tryit for a month and see what you
(30:32):
notice.
If it doesn't help, then youknow you can go drain your
savings account on the testingif you want to.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Well, I mean.
I'll prescribe steroids andhydrolyzed protein diet and said
yeah, anyway, you know, overvaccination, dry processed food,
medications, surgeries, um arestomach tacking is another one
that I think really can mess upthe digestion.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
You know a lot of dogs get that done, you know,
just to preventat, which we knowis a kibble disease.
If dogs are eating a raw fooddiet and healthy digestion,
they're very.
It'd be highly unlikely thatthey would get a bloat or where
their stomach toruses.
But a lot of them they go infor a spay or a neuter and they
say, oh, let's just tack thestomach while you're in here.
(31:14):
I think that really disruptsnormal GI function.
It's not meant to be tied tothe wall, it's meant to be
floating around in there.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Great, I would get a second opinion with Dr Jasek and
let her take a look at bloodwork, get some more information.
You know, a lot of times whenwe answer, you know things here
on the podcast we don't have theentire picture and so we want
to let you guys know that we'rejust.
(31:42):
You know, you have to ask a lotof questions, right, you have
to ask a lot of questions andfigure out what's going on.
But, again, we are always goingto be big proponents of first
things.
First, change the diet to bespecies appropriate for the
animal that's in front of you.
You either have a wolf or youhave a mountain lion one of the
(32:06):
two and I've yet to see themcooking their food out in the
wild or, um, you know, goingafter my dog's kibble.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
they're actually going after the dog or nibbling
on the corn cobs out in thecornfield or eating the you know
the wheat, wheat plants andstuff right, right and look cats
, cats.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Dr joseph, what's been your experience with um
your clients switching cats overfrom kitty crack, as we call it
, to um raw diets?
By what's been your experience?
Speaker 2 (32:40):
well they can.
They can be a bit resistant.
I mean, they do better Oncethey're on the raw.
They can be a bit resistant.
But I think a big part of theproblem is people need to stop
the kibble and you can't givelittle kibble snacks because
they're waiting.
Like you said, it's like kittycrack.
They get addicted to that sugarand they want that kibble.
(33:01):
Now they might drive you crazyfor a couple of days because
they're going to be wanting thatsugar fix.
But if you keep giving themthese little kibble snacks and
you keep spiking the blood sugarwith that, because people get
upset if their cat doesn't eat,so I always recommend you put
that raw food down to give them15, 20 minutes.
They don't need it.
You pick it up and you don'tfeed them until the next meal.
But people get concerned aboutthat and the cat's driving them
(33:24):
crazy because they want thatlittle.
You know that fix of the kibblefood but you gotta, you know,
not give it to them and let themget good and hungry.
Most people feed their kittieskibble and they just leave the
bowl out, so they're just usedto nibbling all day.
They get a sugar fix, sugardrops, they get another sugar
fix and they're just on thisblood sugar roller coaster so
(33:47):
they don't feel very good comingoff of that.
But if you don't completelystop the kibble, you don't have
good luck getting them on to raw.
So you just need to do that,they're fine.
There's a lot of information outthere that cats can't go too
long without eating.
Those are cats that are eatingkibble because all that sugar
(34:10):
gives them fatty liver and theyget liver disease if they go too
long without eating becausethey're borderline diabetics,
right Essentially, from all thekibble.
They're borderline diabetics,right, essentially, from all the
kibble.
Cats that are on a meat-baseddiet are fine.
You know to fast, but your catisn't going to go more than a
day or so without eating.
If you're really strict, youjust put the food down.
(34:30):
They figure it out like I guessthat's all I'm getting, so I
guess I, I guess I better eat it, you know.
So you just, you just have tobe really strict with them.
And what if?
Speaker 1 (34:41):
you built a little cat cage and you just release
some mice in there and theywould instinctually know I'm
gonna kill that little guy.
I'm gonna have you for dinner,you would hope so.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
Yeah, so you'd hope so, unless there's some level of
domestication where they'rejust like uh, my kibble doesn't
run around like that, I don'tknow what to do with something
like that.
That runs.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
That'd be interesting , wouldn't it?
It'd be, it'd be veryinteresting.
I mean, you, would you know, um, and I, I?
I can hear pita calling me nowsaying that I'm killing the mice
.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
They're murdering mice.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
They're murdering mice, but people buy them for
their snakes and stuff like thatall the time and you know
they're clean, right, they'renot going to be full of rat
poisoning or something like that.
Yeah, it's amazing to watchthat, right?
So if you are in a city whereyou don't have the ability to
watch a mountain lion take downa deer like we do in Colorado,
(35:48):
it's amazing, guys.
Nature is amazing, right, andsome people will say, well, my
cat doesn't eat beef becausethey can't take down, you know,
beef.
I'm like, well, they could ifthey were larger.
They're just a mini version of,you know, the big cats, but
(36:11):
that doesn't mean they can't eatbeef.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
Right, exactly.
There's the same physiology,Just a smaller version.
Just like a chihuahua is asmaller version of a Great Dane.
They can still eat the samephysiology, just a smaller
version.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
just like a chihuahua is a smaller version of a great
dane, they can still eat thesame stuff your little cat's
teeth look just like those bigcat's teeth when they do that
big yawn thing that they do andyou look at.
You know the the lions andstuff they look just like that
on a small scale we have.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
We have two outdoor cats and I've not seen them
bring a squirrel up.
Actually I take that back.
I think I did once.
They mostly catch bunnies, butthey'll be good size bunnies but
they don't eat the butts andthey start at the head and they
just chomp all the way down andwe'll have like a bunny butt
left out on our deck orsomething.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Those are sphincters.
They're little sphincters.
They don't want a sphincter.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
They don't, you know.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
I think I talked about this one time on the
podcast where there was someinvestigation because a
restaurant you couldn't tellwhether it was calamari or a
sphincter Because they wereboiled had the same consistency,
(37:26):
right, had the same color.
Is it calamari or is it who's?
Speaker 2 (37:31):
eating.
So wait question who's eatingthe sphincters to know that it's
the same consistency as thecalamari?
Speaker 1 (37:38):
who determined that?
Look, I'm pretty sure that thesphincter is a delicacy
somewhere right Eat everythingright Right, go to waste, right.
So next time you're eating yourcalamari, I'm just, I've never
had a sphincter, but I am goingto say that that, according to
this podcast that I've listenedto, your calamari is very much
(38:00):
like a sphincter, and I'mtalking about the one you sit on
.
Okay, that somebody be like I'mnever eating calamari again.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
I get it.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
All right everybody.
Hey, listen, you could workwith Dr Jasek.
She's at a h a vetcom, a h avetcom, A-H-A vetcom.
She has a.
You call it a sub stack.
Right, you have a sub stack.
I do have a sub stack Yep.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
And we're on Facebook .
I'm putting a few more thingsout there on Facebook.
I've done a little.
You know a couple of littlevideos and stuff like that, but
it's a sub stack.
Is JudyJacekDVMsubstackcom.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
Okay, is judy jasic dbmsubstackcom okay, and jasic
j-a-s-e k?
okay, j-a-s-e-k?
Um.
All right, and get over torawdogfoodandcompanycom.
Listen, brian is there to helpyou, help your pet.
Okay, all you got to do is signup and, uh, if you don't have
time to go through a fullconsultation, or you don't even
(39:02):
want one, just go to our chat.
Ask him Brian, what should Ifeed my kitty who is vomiting?
Hydrolyzed protein or kittycrack?
He's going to tell you prettyquick, because you don't want to
be Dr Jasek, you don't want tobe this person who doesn't know
why they do what they do.
They just do it.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
And that person is going to be a future
veterinarian that you petparents are going to be going in
to see.
So just know what you're goingto be up against out there.
So you better be educatedyourself, because clearly that
may not be too highly trained innutrition, which we already
know they're not, that's right,that's right, that's right.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Get over to brawldogfoodandcompanycom.
Remember, every Wednesday wejust started our YEPI hour at
four o'clock Colorado time.
So I don't know where you guysare in the world, but that sale
now goes from four to midnight,so you have lots of time to get
things on sale food, treats,supplements and bones.
(40:00):
Bones all of them are rightthere, even your cancer series,
dr jc, because over there onyappy hour.
So, uh, you can download thatas well.
Those go on sale everywednesday from four to midnight.
So get over to raw dog food andcompanycom, where your pet's
health is our business.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
And what, dr jc friends, don't let friends feed,
kibble y'all, that's rightwe'll see you speak everybody,
bye, bye, oh snap.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
Find out how you can start your dog on the road to
health and longevity.
Go to rawdogfoodandcompanycom,where friends don't let friends
feed kibble and where your pet'shealth is our business.
Oh snap.
Well, hello Raw Feeders.
I'm Deedee Merson Moffitt, ceoof Raw Dog Feeding Company,
where your pet's health is ourbusiness and we're friends, like
my friend Dr Judy Jasik.
Man, she didn't let friendsfeed kibble, now do ya no?
Speaker 2 (00:16):
way Enemies and not anybody Frenemies.
I don't let anybody feed it.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
What is a frenemy?
Why did that term come about?
Is it a person that you thoughtwas your friend that became
your enemy?
Is it what?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
is it.
Maybe sometimes they're yourfriend, sometimes your enemy
depending on the day.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
There it is frenemies .
I was like what is that Like abipolar personality, right Like
somebody like what you said,some days they like you and some
days they don't.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Right, I don't know, makes sense to me.
I don't know what else the wordwould mean Frenemies.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Don't let frenemies feed kibble, that's right.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Then we're covered.
Don't feed the stuff.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Right, it's so bad.
And we're going to talk aboutcats and, uh, their gut health
when they're on kibble.
Uh, we really need the kittiesto get.
I know that we're a dog foodcompany, but we just didn't have
a long enough name.
You know, dog and cat.
Listen to this.
This is just funny.
(01:21):
Brian sent me this.
He said this is an actualconversation, dr Jason, with a
vet student at a UC Davis vetconference.
Now, brian wasn't having thisconversation, this was, somebody
else posted this.
Okay, but they said this is anactual conversation with a vet
student.
And so this person says do youhave any pets?
(01:44):
And the vet student says yes.
And this other person says well, what do you feed them?
And she said well, my snakegets mice and my cat gets kibble
.
And so this other person saysso your snake gets a species
appropriate diet, but your catdoes not.
And the vet's answer is is soprofound I was just shocked by
(02:10):
this profoundness.
And she says, in answer to yourcat doesn't need an appropriate
species appropriate that shesays well, I'm not sure, but
that's what I do.
I'm not sure, but that's what Ido.
Wow, yeah, I'm not sure.
Well, look, rest assured thatkibble is not species
(02:35):
appropriate.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Right.
Not for anything actually, lordy, lordy, speaking of kibble,
have you ever seen the moviesecondhand lions?
They go to town to get food forthe lion and guess what they
get?
There's bags of lion chow.
Wait a second, that's a lionchow like perina dog chow,
(03:00):
perina cat chow.
They have these big bags oflion chow.
Is this for for for sure?
I don't.
I don't know if they, I don'tthink they actually make it, but
that was just in the movie.
But I just thought that wasfunny because you know, there's
there's dog chow and cat chowand I think there's horse chow.
I mean, I think preen makes allthese different chows and all
(03:21):
these different processed foodsfor all the different species
and you, you know, according tothe movie anyway, they actually
make a lion chow, I thinkactually the lions, like in zoos
.
I think they actually get aspecies appropriate diet, which
is also really interesting,because why do the wild felines
like the lions and tigers in thezoo?
I really don't think they'refeeding a big bowl of Karina
(03:44):
lion chow.
I think they're feeding them,you know, fresh meat.
Yeah, that's what they'regetting.
So why do our kitties domestickitties lose?
Speaker 1 (03:54):
out Because this vet says so.
This vet says well, I'm notcertain, but I know that you
need to feed heels and sciencediet.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
That's what I'm being taught.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
That's what I'm being taught in vet school.
That's right.
That's what someone told mesomewhere some time ago and I
just keep perpetuating the storyand I don't know why all these
kitties are coming in sick.
Yeah, I couldn't tell you, it'sgood, it's business.
You know, and here's the thing,dr Jasek, I don't even know
that they consciously think,well, this is good for business.
(04:29):
They just don't think, justlike this vet.
I'm not sure, I don't know, Ijust does it.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
It's just, it's autopilot, and I think that's
what education does these daysis.
It does not encourage thinkingcritically thinking.
It's like just do what you'retold, be a good little vet
student and follow a standard ofcare, and we'll give you this
piece of paper that says you canpractice and don't rock the
boat and you'll do fine, You'llmake a lot of money and you
(05:04):
won't get in trouble.
That's pretty much the state ofthings.
Just don't think.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Okay, I just have to laugh because one of the big
conglomerates and their taglineis science did that?
Maybe Blue Buffalo?
I can't remember which one itwas.
I was just like, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Well, what else have we been told?
To follow the science, and itdidn't work out so well.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
We'll see.
This is the problem.
Yes, yes, yeah.
Science, you know, I think,needs a bit clearer definition
of what exactly science is.
This nutritionist, right, wastalking to this person in our
family who's dealing with cancerand she said and you know, I
(05:50):
just have to keep my mouth shut.
Sometimes you can do that, notreally well.
She said this.
She said now you know foodsafety.
And I thought, oh boy, here wego, oh geez, food safety.
And I thought, oh boy, here wego.
She was like you can't eat anyraw foods, you know, make sure
(06:20):
it's all cooked.
You know, no sushi, no rawfoods, no, everything's got to
be.
You know, no pink, this andthat.
And I thought, oh my, if sheknew that we were raw dog food
feeders.
And she kept talking about thisbacteria.
Right, we can't, you know,because we can't let this
bacteria get, you know, intoyour body, because you're
compromised, because you'regoing through chemo, right,
(06:41):
right.
And so I did stop her rightthere and I I bet you that the
person that was with me waswanting to kick me, right, they
were like please don't cause ascene.
But I just said can you tell mewhat bacteria are we talking
about?
Big three that they're alwaystalking about in the raw diet
listeria, salmonella and e colcoli.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
E coli, yep yep, couldn't have guessed that.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
But you know, dr Jason, we've had a lot of
customers you have.
I have ask us if they have beendiagnosed with cancer and
they're going through any kindof therapy.
Can they continue to feed theirdog a raw diet?
You and I are going to say yes,but I'm sitting there listening
(07:29):
to these doctors and thesenutritionists say oh, no, no, no
, no, no.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Oh, yeah, no, they'll say it.
And the other thing that youknow people will say in that, in
that circumstance that I'veheard is that you know, like,
don't let your dog lick yourface and stuff.
This is another big fear peoplebe like okay, I've got there's
a person in my household that'simmunocompromised for whatever
reason, and I'm feeding my dograw and you know that raw food
(08:00):
can get in their beard orsomething or get around their
mouth and then they go and theythey lick my dog's face.
That's why, like a lot ofservice agencies that you know
train dogs to be service dogs togo into hospitals and
facilities and stuff, they willnot let you in if you're feeding
raw, because you're going to bespreading these horrible
(08:20):
bacteria to the patients, someof which might be
immunocompromised.
It's like it stays on theirmouth.
I've had people ask me how do Iclean my dog's beard after they
eat?
I'm like, why are you cleaningtheir beard?
Because now that food you knowit was like it was kind of
baffled Like what do you?
Why are you cleaning the beard?
Oh, because all that food getsstuck there and then all that
(08:43):
bacteria is there a little snacklater.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
I don't know like, right, and you know that
information of them testing,right, the bacteria load in a
raw dog food's mouth versus akibble fed dog, uh, and that
whole study somehow just kind oflike gone, you know, and what
they found was that there weremore so-called dangerous
(09:10):
bacteria in the kibble fed dogs,right, than there were the raw
fed dogs.
And you've got all of thatkibble that stays in their teeth
.
Their teeth go bad, you know,and then they don't have a
healthy mouth.
That's one Number two, kibblefed dogs.
It comes out in their skin,they have that dander, they
(09:32):
stink and they, you know, youtalk about a dog that doesn't
look or feel clean or even smellclean.
That's kibble fed dogs.
They're going into thehospitals.
But all of that changed, right,the real study, all of that
changed when Perina decided togive, you know, a big grant to
(09:56):
this, the therapy dogorganization.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
So there wasn't a doge.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Back then there wasn't a doge you go, wasn't a
doge.
You could figure up where we're, you know putting the money,
but anyway, um.
So you know, this is somethingthat we have to deal with on a
consistent basis and I justdon't, um, I don't know, I don't
know it's very, I see, I don'tknow, I don't know it's very, I
see, I see, because of how muchtime I've had to spend in the
(10:27):
hospitals, I see where thatnarrative is so strong and
scares people to death.
And yet Christine Massey can'tget any proof of it, right?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
But they don't.
They ignore that data, thatdata that says that none of this
has ever been proven.
Viruses have never been provento exist.
There's been nothing proventhat these supposedly bad
bacteria cause disease.
They just choose to ignore thatdata and just believe the
popular narrative because that'seasier and they get to keep
(11:05):
their jobs and you know, just gogo along to get along.
That's what a lot of people do,sadly, and in the human medical
profession and in theveterinary profession I'm gonna
have to ask chat gpt how do youpull people's heads out of their
sphincter?
to let me know what the answerto that one is.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Listen, how does one pop the head out of the big
sphincter?
Okay, don't know.
Oh boy, we get in trouble forsaying stuff like that.
But you know what?
I don't care, it's fineSometimes you just need to laugh
a little.
Sometimes you need a littlehumor break.
I'm laughing.
(11:49):
I'm laughing Are you laughing?
I'm laughing.
So let's talk about, let's talk, let's continue on with
bacteria, shall we Sure?
Speaker 2 (11:57):
I love bacteria.
Bacteria are my friends.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Right, germs are me or something like that.
There was a me, or somethinglike that there was a shirt or
something germs are dreams areus?
yeah, germs are us, right and um, all right, so here's a, here's
a question for you.
So you deal with kitty cats,and um, there's a sweet nurse
and she has a cat.
(12:22):
This cat is not very old, drJasek, two years old,
asymptomatic, pretty much Okay,except for one thing, and that
is he vomits, or she vomits, I'mnot sure.
I think it's he Not sure.
Anyway, onyx, I believe hisname is, and he regurgitates
(12:45):
food.
Okay, so should we, or shouldwe not investigate what kind of
food you feed?
That'd be a good place to start,but you know what the vets have
suggested that she put herkitty cat on is our favorite
hydrolyzed protein.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Right, and all you get carnivore on plant-based
protein that's so broken downthat there's hardly even any
protein left there.
That makes sense, right right.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
But you know what, maybe the vet is a friend of
this vet's, the one who said Idon't know, I don't know why,
you know, the snake gets speciesappropriate, but my cat doesn't
.
I just do it, I just does it?
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Because the snake vets say feed a species
appropriate diet.
The cat vets say feed a speciesappropriate diet.
The cat vets say feedhydrolyzed protein.
They go to different parts ofthe vet school, that's right.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
The snake school or the cat school, all right.
So, um, you have taken a lookat onyx's blood work, um, and
you've taken a look at his labs.
Frankly, it it sounds like tous that we just first and
foremost need to switch the foodand then see what happens.
But let's talk a little bitabout the blood work.
(14:03):
What did you see?
Anything that alarmed you?
Speaker 2 (14:06):
I mean, I think it probably a diet change wouldn't
fix but the major organfunctions were really good.
Liver enzymes were all normal,kidney function was normal.
Thyroid function looked good.
White blood cells were low,which isn't necessarily a
problem.
But you know that couldindicate or that could be
because of poor nutrition.
(14:27):
You know that.
You know the bone marrow maybeisn't kicking out enough enough
white blood cells.
Of course that will keep thevets from getting on board with
raw feeding, because I'll saywell cat has low white blood
cells, so therefore youshouldn't feed raw because of
the bacteria, even thoughfeeding the raw might help that
(14:47):
problem.
So that was just a little bitof an issue, probably something
to keep an eye on.
I think the one interestingthing was that the b vitamins
were really high, the b12 andthe folate um and the only thing
I can think of for that isthere's just a lot of it in the
food they're feeding becausethey put artificial vitamins and
minerals in these foods andbecause b vitamins are not toxic
(15:11):
, like if a pet gets more thanthey need, they just pee it out.
There's a water solublevitamins, your fat soluble
vitamins like vitamin D.
You got to be careful not tooverdose them.
I think there's been some casesof that in some dry food diets,
but B vitamins.
They can just put tons and tonsof them in there, and so that
my and and and their theirnervous system boosters.
(15:34):
So they give them lots of energy, so they can feed them this
really crappy diet it doesn'thave very good nutrition, and
then they feel good so they canhave energy and stuff.
So, um, I just thought that waskind of an interesting, um
interesting finding.
But, um, you know, nothing elsereally showed up in the kitty's
blood work.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
You know, I did see in there where the vets were
suggesting that it could be SIBO.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Small intestinal bacterial overgrowth.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
You know, obviously that's going to be a
gastrointestinal issue as well,right, and you're going to have
some food sensitivities, somefood intolerances.
Um, there's a lot that goeswith it.
They say, these dogs that areactually have SIBO and cats are
very, very ill.
What do you see?
What do you think about SIBO?
(16:23):
Um, have you seen cats wherethey look like they have this
type of an issue and and youjust remove the offending foods
and it clears up?
What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Well, I actually myself was diagnosed with SIBO
many years ago.
I had intestinal issues andwhat I was told was that it was
a it's a motility issue, meaningyou're not supposed to have a
lot of bacteria growing in yoursmall intestine.
They're supposed to be down inyour large intestine, your colon
.
The small intestine should berelatively free of bacteria and
(17:05):
part of like what happens likeovernight or in between meals,
there's this contraction of yoursmall intestine that kind of
cleans all the stuff out and anybacteria that's in there goes
down into the colon.
And if it's not moving well, ifyou have a motility issue, then
the bacteria will stay in there.
And then they're they sort oflike.
(17:26):
I think they like ferment thefood, sort of.
For testing it, it was kind ofinteresting.
You do like this, this breathtest, where you just do like
breathe into this tube and thebacteria supposedly let off a
gas, and then it, and then it ittests for this gas.
Now I went to a like afunctional medicine doctor and
(17:48):
they didn't.
They'd not use antibiotics, usea whole bunch of different
herbs and stuff, and I will tellyou I felt a whole lot better.
And then there's a special diet.
There's certain diets, likeyou've got to get off of, like
carbs and stuff.
There's certain things thatwill supposedly feed the
bacteria and you kind of learn.
I mean like I know, likethere's some things I eat and
(18:08):
then I just don't feel that.
I feel kind of like bloatyafterwards and I mean I don't
know if it's truly feeding thebacteria or if I mean, honestly,
I think the more I learn aboutthis is having a healthy diet so
that your intestines aresupported nutritionally.
But then also stress, becausestress will shut down your gut.
(18:31):
So if you're stressed you'retense, like I know.
If I'm like upset aboutsomething or rushing around to
get a million things to do and Ieat like I'll get a tummy ache,
well, because your intestinesaren't working, because you're
in this fight or flight, youknow running around doing stuff
and your body thinks you'rerunning from the you know tiger,
when all you're really doing isrunning errands, but body
(18:52):
doesn't know the difference.
So you know you're, you knowyou're tensed up, I think in
pets and honestly I haven't seenthis diagnosed very much.
I've heard, I've seen, a fewcases come in with a diagnosis
of sebo and I don't actuallyknow exactly how they're testing
for this in pets.
I kind of doubt that they'regetting the kitties to blow into
(19:14):
the little tube.
I want to see that.
Just saying, I think vets areprobably guessing because they
do a lot of presumptivediagnosing.
These are the symptoms.
Fits this diagnosis.
And I swear medicine is justgoing like down this like AI
(19:34):
path where they just like, okay,these are the they're probably
putting.
This does play computeralgorithms.
These are the symptoms, theseare the potential diagnoses.
Okay, these are the three.
It could be IBD, ibs, sibo,sibo.
That's diagnosed that one along time, let's call it SIBO In
this kitty.
You know, I mean I I hate tosay it, but I think that's the
direction that a lot of medicineis going.
(19:56):
And then they pick thatdiagnosis and then like okay,
what are the treatments?
But the treatments inconventional veterinary medicine
are never changing the diet,which is really what needs to be
done, because the bottom lineis any of this GI stuff, it's
inflammation.
All disease is reallyinflammation.
It's just the body is inflamed,it's not working right.
(20:19):
And what's the?
How do we help that?
We've got to feed them right,we got to give the gut what it's
meant to be, what's meant to beput in there, and cats are
obligate carnivores so it needsto be a meat based diet.
So if you're putting a plantbased diet that's dehydrated, so
it's dry in there, it's likethe worst thing.
(20:40):
And it just makes sense to methat, just in the case of SIBO,
that you've got plant materialin there that the cat body
doesn't know how to digest soyou probably are going to get
bacteria, you know, starting towork on it, and then if it
doesn't empty appropriately, ifyou don't have that good
motility, it's going to sit inthere and start to ferment.
(21:01):
But but the fix is just feedthem the right diet.
For all of it, conventionalmedicine, they tend to put them
on steroids and or antibioticsto antibiotics, probably to kill
the bacteria if they diagnoseSIBO, but for all the other
inflammatory stuff they just usesteroids like what you said.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
What causes SIBO?
And and there are a lot ofthings that can cause it.
And the body has many positivemechanisms to prevent SIBO from
occurring, like stomach acidsecretion, right, biosecretion,
something called MMC, which ismigrating motor complex.
(21:42):
So that's the waves of thatsmall intestinal wall that moves
that waste and bacteria throughthat digestive tract and to the
colon.
You've also got your immunesystem and then there's a valve.
It's a one-way valve thatallows the flow of contents into
the large intestine butprevents it from reflexing back
(22:02):
into the small intestine.
And so in order to get SIBO youhave to have one or more of
these protective mechanisms fail.
They have to fail in the body.
And so what causes damage to theMMC, that migrating motor
complex?
(22:23):
You know it can be surgicaldrugs or sedations, that
ketamine is used in a cocktailfor pre-meds sedation, or even
dentals or nail clippings or earcleanings.
That can really damage thismigrating motor complex.
And I again, I don't think thatpet parents look at their
(22:47):
animals.
If somebody of authority or inthe um health profession gives
this surgical drug or sedation,they don't look at that and
think that could be somethingdamaging to the body, right?
Speaker 2 (23:04):
right, but but it can't I don't think about the,
the effects of that.
You know they have to.
They'd have to ask or look upthe, the, the, the package
insert.
I was listening to a podcastthis morning and this is like on
the human side, but they weretalking about these black box
warnings, this and a lot ofhuman drugs they have to buy.
So if a drug has a reportedside effect that could be
(23:29):
life-threatening there they haveto put these like black box
warnings on it so that they'reright there on the label.
Like this is the stuff thatcould potentially happen.
Like why they're even usingthese medications.
I don't know, but like peoplearen't even aware that like
things like antidepressant drugscan cause an increase in
(23:51):
suicide.
People can become suicidal onthem.
People are not informed ofthese effects and the point of
the podcast was you've got toask if you're being prescribed a
drug.
Your kids are being prescribeda drug.
Find out what's on that label,and it's the same, I think, for
pets.
They have to ask your vet andyou can even look this stuff up
(24:12):
online.
You get the name of the drug.
You could look up ketamine andyou could look up.
You know what are the potentialadverse adverse effects.
But a lot of them like youwouldn't think about.
But like any anesthetic drug,any sedative, is going to slow
down the gut.
It's going to affect the normalgut because it's it's.
(24:33):
It's slowing down the centralnervous system and anesthetic
drug has to.
That's how it makes you like inunconscious.
Ketamine is actually like athey call it a dissociative
where where it's it doesn'tsuppress, like your respiration
as much, but it makes your, itcan cause kind of like
(24:56):
hallucinations.
It makes your your nervoussystem a little wonky.
It was actually there was atime there where people were
breaking into vet clinics andgetting it.
It was sold like on the streetas a street drug because it
could make you hallucinate andstuff when you, when you took it
.
So something like that's goingto have all kinds of effects on
the body and it's different forevery person or every animal.
(25:18):
That's the thing.
One animal might be reallysensitive to the effects of a
certain drug, another one mightnot bother them at all.
So and drug interactions so ifa pet has surgery, you don't,
and then they get four or fivedifferent medications.
So they're going to get theanesthetic, they're going to get
some pain meds, they might getsome antibiotics, they're going
(25:40):
to get some painkillers.
You got like at least four drugsthat are interacting together.
Nobody studies how these drugsinteract together, so there's
all sorts of possibilities.
Boatload of vaccines in thefirst two years of life, so you
know that's entering into it too.
So I think I think anypharmaceuticals play a really
(26:02):
huge role and it just kind ofwell.
My vet said that it was safe,so I went ahead and did it and
they just don't connect the dotsthat now this gut problem could
be related to some drugs, maybeeven, of course, the
antibiotics the cat had sixmonths ago and and and the one
that you and I dislike the most,um, the acid reflux medications
(26:25):
.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
where it actually decreases the gastric acidity,
right, those medications painrelie, pain relievers, opioids,
tramadol.
Also, altering the structuralcomposition of an animal,
anatomical changes result inbacterial clearance being
blocked right and so adhesionslike spay or neuters or
(26:47):
abdominal surgeries spay, Iguess, neuters or abdominal
surgeries Spay, I guess, wouldbe the bigger one.
But any kind of obstruction cancause that Once the function of
the body is altered andbacteria are not being killed
off in the stomach or the smallintestine as they should be.
Now you feed a diet high insugar and refined carbohydrates,
(27:12):
processed foods, you know allof this different type of stuff
and you create a problem.
And you said something you'vebeen listening to.
Who did you say you've beenlistening to?
That said, all animal diseaseare created by humans.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Oh, I've been reading some of Rudolf Steiner's work.
So Rudolf Steiner started theprinciple of anthroposophic
medicine, which is basicallyholistic medicine mind, body,
spirit.
But he actually has written andI'm actually reading an article
now by a veterinarian thatstudied Steiner's work, so he's
quoting steiner, um, and but he,steiner, gets into the
(27:58):
energetics of disease that it'snot just we can't.
We don't just treat thephysical, we have to treat the
our energetic bodies as well.
But he says that all animaldiseases come from humans, the
energetics of the humans.
In their field there's like akind of a disruption in the
(28:19):
vital force of the animal thatthey get out of balance and then
that's why disease shows up.
But that was pretty profound.
He said all animal diseases are, you know, come from humans.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
I bet our pet parents aren't going to be very happy
hearing that this one might makeus unpopular, didi, I feel, for
our pet parents, because thediagnostic testing, dr Drasik,
is so expensive yeah Right, soexpensive.
I think she was saying thatthey want to run more tests to
(28:55):
kind of determine what'shappening Now.
I and so I said, well,determine what's happening now?
I and so I said, well, what arethe other symptoms?
That's it just thisregurgitation of the food at the
moment?
Right, and I said I I really do, uh, want to encourage you to
change the food to a speciesappropriate, okay, species.
(29:16):
That means the, the food theywere created to eat, okay
species.
Appropriatedietcies-appropriate diet.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Mice are species-appropriate.
For cats too, by the way, notjust snakes.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
That's right, that's right, and just let them get
their birds and their mice andtheir snakes.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Yeah, actually cats could eat snakes too.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Yeah, they can, anyway.
So there are some tasks thatyou could do, but again, but you
know what, why not just trychanging the diet.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Like right, you got to feed the cat anyway, Right,
why not just feed a diet?
And you know I'm not a huge fanof canned food either, because
a lot of it is just like kibble,but it's got more moisture in
it.
Sometimes just that addedmoisture will help, though.
I mean, if she just didn't wantto try the raw, trying a canned
(30:10):
food sometimes helps, and thatwould at least show her that
it's the diet and then maybethen she'd be willing to go one
step further and actually trythe raw.
Like why spend all this moneyon tests when it could just be
the diet and just, I mean, yougot to feed it anyway.
Just try the diet change, Tryit for a month and see what you
(30:32):
notice.
If it doesn't help, then youknow you can go drain your
savings account on the testingif you want to.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Well, I mean.
I'll prescribe steroids andhydrolyzed protein diet and said
yeah, anyway, you know, overvaccination, dry processed food,
medications, surgeries, um arestomach tacking is another one
that I think really can mess upthe digestion.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
You know a lot of dogs get that done, you know,
just to preventat, which we knowis a kibble disease.
If dogs are eating a raw fooddiet and healthy digestion,
they're very.
It'd be highly unlikely thatthey would get a bloat or where
their stomach toruses.
But a lot of them they go infor a spay or a neuter and they
say, oh, let's just tack thestomach while you're in here.
(31:14):
I think that really disruptsnormal GI function.
It's not meant to be tied tothe wall, it's meant to be
floating around in there.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Great, I would get a second opinion with Dr Jasek and
let her take a look at bloodwork, get some more information.
You know, a lot of times whenwe answer, you know things here
on the podcast we don't have theentire picture and so we want
to let you guys know that we'rejust.
(31:42):
You know, you have to ask a lotof questions, right, you have
to ask a lot of questions andfigure out what's going on.
But, again, we are always goingto be big proponents of first
things.
First, change the diet to bespecies appropriate for the
animal that's in front of you.
You either have a wolf or youhave a mountain lion one of the
(32:06):
two and I've yet to see themcooking their food out in the
wild or, um, you know, goingafter my dog's kibble.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
they're actually going after the dog or nibbling
on the corn cobs out in thecornfield or eating the you know
the wheat, wheat plants andstuff right, right and look cats
, cats.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Dr joseph, what's been your experience with um
your clients switching cats overfrom kitty crack, as we call it
, to um raw diets?
By what's been your experience?
Speaker 2 (32:40):
well they can.
They can be a bit resistant.
I mean, they do better Oncethey're on the raw.
They can be a bit resistant.
But I think a big part of theproblem is people need to stop
the kibble and you can't givelittle kibble snacks because
they're waiting.
Like you said, it's like kittycrack.
They get addicted to that sugarand they want that kibble.
(33:01):
Now they might drive you crazyfor a couple of days because
they're going to be wanting thatsugar fix.
But if you keep giving themthese little kibble snacks and
you keep spiking the blood sugarwith that, because people get
upset if their cat doesn't eat,so I always recommend you put
that raw food down to give them15, 20 minutes.
They don't need it.
You pick it up and you don'tfeed them until the next meal.
But people get concerned aboutthat and the cat's driving them
(33:24):
crazy because they want thatlittle.
You know that fix of the kibblefood but you gotta, you know,
not give it to them and let themget good and hungry.
Most people feed their kittieskibble and they just leave the
bowl out, so they're just usedto nibbling all day.
They get a sugar fix, sugardrops, they get another sugar
fix and they're just on thisblood sugar roller coaster so
(33:47):
they don't feel very good comingoff of that.
But if you don't completelystop the kibble, you don't have
good luck getting them on to raw.
So you just need to do that,they're fine.
There's a lot of information outthere that cats can't go too
long without eating.
Those are cats that are eatingkibble because all that sugar
(34:10):
gives them fatty liver and theyget liver disease if they go too
long without eating becausethey're borderline diabetics,
right Essentially, from all thekibble.
They're borderline diabetics,right, essentially, from all the
kibble.
Cats that are on a meat-baseddiet are fine.
You know to fast, but your catisn't going to go more than a
day or so without eating.
If you're really strict, youjust put the food down.
(34:30):
They figure it out like I guessthat's all I'm getting, so I
guess I, I guess I better eat it, you know.
So you just, you just have tobe really strict with them.
And what if?
Speaker 1 (34:41):
you built a little cat cage and you just release
some mice in there and theywould instinctually know I'm
gonna kill that little guy.
I'm gonna have you for dinner,you would hope so.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
Yeah, so you'd hope so, unless there's some level of
domestication where they'rejust like uh, my kibble doesn't
run around like that, I don'tknow what to do with something
like that.
That runs.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
That'd be interesting , wouldn't it?
It'd be, it'd be veryinteresting.
I mean, you, would you know, um, and I, I?
I can hear pita calling me nowsaying that I'm killing the mice
.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
They're murdering mice.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
They're murdering mice, but people buy them for
their snakes and stuff like thatall the time and you know
they're clean, right, they'renot going to be full of rat
poisoning or something like that.
Yeah, it's amazing to watchthat, right?
So if you are in a city whereyou don't have the ability to
watch a mountain lion take downa deer like we do in Colorado,
(35:48):
it's amazing, guys.
Nature is amazing, right, andsome people will say, well, my
cat doesn't eat beef becausethey can't take down, you know,
beef.
I'm like, well, they could ifthey were larger.
They're just a mini version of,you know, the big cats, but
(36:11):
that doesn't mean they can't eatbeef.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
Right, exactly.
There's the same physiology,Just a smaller version.
Just like a chihuahua is asmaller version of a Great Dane.
They can still eat the samephysiology, just a smaller
version.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
just like a chihuahua is a smaller version of a great
dane, they can still eat thesame stuff your little cat's
teeth look just like those bigcat's teeth when they do that
big yawn thing that they do andyou look at.
You know the the lions andstuff they look just like that
on a small scale we have.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
We have two outdoor cats and I've not seen them
bring a squirrel up.
Actually I take that back.
I think I did once.
They mostly catch bunnies, butthey'll be good size bunnies but
they don't eat the butts andthey start at the head and they
just chomp all the way down andwe'll have like a bunny butt
left out on our deck orsomething.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Those are sphincters.
They're little sphincters.
They don't want a sphincter.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
They don't, you know.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
I think I talked about this one time on the
podcast where there was someinvestigation because a
restaurant you couldn't tellwhether it was calamari or a
sphincter Because they wereboiled had the same consistency,
(37:26):
right, had the same color.
Is it calamari or is it who's?
Speaker 2 (37:31):
eating.
So wait question who's eatingthe sphincters to know that it's
the same consistency as thecalamari?
Speaker 1 (37:38):
who determined that?
Look, I'm pretty sure that thesphincter is a delicacy
somewhere right Eat everythingright Right, go to waste, right.
So next time you're eating yourcalamari, I'm just, I've never
had a sphincter, but I am goingto say that that, according to
this podcast that I've listenedto, your calamari is very much
(38:00):
like a sphincter, and I'mtalking about the one you sit on
.
Okay, that somebody be like I'mnever eating calamari again.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
I get it.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
All right everybody.
Hey, listen, you could workwith Dr Jasek.
She's at a h a vetcom, a h avetcom, A-H-A vetcom.
She has a.
You call it a sub stack.
Right, you have a sub stack.
I do have a sub stack Yep.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
And we're on Facebook .
I'm putting a few more thingsout there on Facebook.
I've done a little.
You know a couple of littlevideos and stuff like that, but
it's a sub stack.
Is JudyJacekDVMsubstackcom.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
Okay, is judy jasic dbmsubstackcom okay, and jasic
j-a-s-e k?
okay, j-a-s-e-k?
Um.
All right, and get over torawdogfoodandcompanycom.
Listen, brian is there to helpyou, help your pet.
Okay, all you got to do is signup and, uh, if you don't have
time to go through a fullconsultation, or you don't even
(39:02):
want one, just go to our chat.
Ask him Brian, what should Ifeed my kitty who is vomiting?
Hydrolyzed protein or kittycrack?
He's going to tell you prettyquick, because you don't want to
be Dr Jasek, you don't want tobe this person who doesn't know
why they do what they do.
They just do it.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
And that person is going to be a future
veterinarian that you petparents are going to be going in
to see.
So just know what you're goingto be up against out there.
So you better be educatedyourself, because clearly that
may not be too highly trained innutrition, which we already
know they're not, that's right,that's right, that's right.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Get over to brawldogfoodandcompanycom.
Remember, every Wednesday wejust started our YEPI hour at
four o'clock Colorado time.
So I don't know where you guysare in the world, but that sale
now goes from four to midnight,so you have lots of time to get
things on sale food, treats,supplements and bones.
(40:00):
Bones all of them are rightthere, even your cancer series,
dr jc, because over there onyappy hour.
So, uh, you can download thatas well.
Those go on sale everywednesday from four to midnight.
So get over to raw dog food andcompanycom, where your pet's
health is our business.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
And what, dr jc friends, don't let friends feed,
kibble y'all, that's rightwe'll see you speak everybody,
bye, bye, oh snap.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
Find out how you can start your dog on the road to
health and longevity.
Go to rawdogfoodandcompanycom,where friends don't let friends
feed kibble and where your pet'shealth is our business.
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