Episode 412 - Remixed: A Journey from Marine to Proptech CEO

Christian Dwiggins, co-founder and co-CEO of Rayse, articulates a transformative vision for the real estate industry, focusing on the imperative of enhancing agent-client relationships through innovative technology. The primary salient point of our discussion centers on Rayse's pioneering buyer presentation tool, which seeks to empower agents by providing them with a rich, interactive platform that showcases their value and expertise. Dwiggins emphasizes the necessity for agents to convey their worth effectively in a rapidly evolving market, particularly in light of recent legal changes affecting commission structures. Throughout the episode, he reflects on his multifaceted background, including his experiences in the military and the audio engineering industry, which have shaped his approach to leadership and collaboration. We explore the overarching theme that successful real estate practices hinge not solely on transactions but on fostering trust and connection between agents and their clients.

The conversation with Christian delves deeply into the intricacies of the real estate industry and the innovative solutions his company is providing. Dwiggins recounts his upbringing in San Luis Obispo, sharing how his formative years spent with his influential grandfather shaped his critical thinking and problem-solving abilities. He discusses his transition from a background in audio engineering and the military to the realm of real estate technology, emphasizing the importance of interpersonal relationships and the trust that agents must cultivate with their clients. Throughout the episode, he articulates how Rayse is redefining the buyer experience with a nonlinear, interactive presentation platform that empowers agents to showcase their unique value propositions effectively and efficiently. Dwiggins also reflects on the current challenges facing real estate agents, particularly in light of recent lawsuits affecting commission structures, and how Raise aims to position agents as trusted advisors in a rapidly changing landscape.

Takeaways:

• The product strategy for Rayse was deliberately crafted to address the evolving needs of real estate agents.
• Christian Dwiggins shared insights on how the platform empowers agents to articulate their value to clients effectively.
• The discussion highlighted the importance of building trust between agents and clients in the real estate industry.
• Dwiggins emphasized that agents must navigate a complex landscape of client expectations and market dynamics to succeed.
• Rayse's innovative approach includes a nonlinear buyer presentation that adapts to various client relationships.
• The company aims to leverage AI technology to enhance agent-client interactions while maintaining the personal touch essential for trust.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Yeah, we, the product strategyfor Rayse was intentional. We wanted
to provide a buyer. First ofall, we knew this lawsuit. We were
aware of this lawsuit foryears and years and years before.
So we weren't gambling. It wasdefinitely a tailwind. It helped

(00:20):
us get our message out andeverything we thought was going to
happen, frankly, has happened.
You're listening to the RealEstate Sessions and I'm your host,
Bill Risser. With nearly 25years in the real estate business,
I love to interview industryleaders, up and comers and really
anyone with a story to tell.It's the stories that led my guests

(00:42):
to a career in the real estateworld that drives me in my 10th year
and over 400 episodes of thepodcast. And now I hope you enjoy
the next journey. Hi,everybody. Welcome to episode 412
of the Real Estate Sessionspodcast. As always, thank you so
much for tuning in. Thank youso much for telling a friend. Passion,

(01:04):
it's a word I love. Andpassionate people are what really
drive me, especially with thepodcast and that is what we get.
Today. I'm going to be talkingwith Christian Dwiggins. Christian
is one of the Co founders, coCEOs of Rayse. Rayse is a platform
like no other. We'll leave itright there. And I can't wait to

(01:26):
get this thing going. So let'sget started. Christian, welcome to
the podcast.
Thank you. I'm really excitedto be here.
Yeah, I'm very excited to haveyou on the show. It's. Look, I'm
going to be really honestright up front. I'm speaking with
a gentleman who has a hugebackground in the audio space. He's
all about. We'll talk aboutthat part of his life. It's pretty

(01:49):
cool. But it's the first timethat's ever happened on the podcast
where I've had somebody whounderstands what's happening here
more than the average Joe.How's that make sense? Yeah. And
big shout out to Bondland foranother great recommendation for
a guest. I have a couple oftop, I call them referrers who are
really good at bringing mepeople that I super fun to talk to.

(02:12):
And Christian, you are a co.Founder, co CEO of Rayse. We're going
to talk a lot about that, butI like to kind of start at the beginning
and I think I kind of warnedyou about this.
Yep.
I, I know you're a Nor. Calguy now. No, Cal. Right up north.
But tell me, tell me, are you,you're, were you born in California?
Are you a native Californian?

(02:32):
I am a native, yes. I was bornin Santa Monica down south, but I
don't really remember that. Ithink at a very young age. Let me
see if I remember thiscorrectly. Yeah. Born in Santa Monica.
My parents lived in Eagle Rockat the time. But before I could really
remember, remember anything,we had moved up to San Luis Obispo.

(02:53):
So I grew up in Slow Town. Mygrandfather and grandmother were
there. And my grandfather wasone of the older founding ranchers
of the area. So we had. He. Hewas just an old school rancher. He
knew everything about anythingthat had to do with growing things

(03:15):
and the earth. And probablythe most influential person in my
life was my grandfather. AndI, you know, as the kids growing
up, would say, my dad wasstronger than your dad. I was. Would
always talk about mygrandfather being the strongest man
I know. He used to chew on anold cigar. He never smoked it, but
chewed on an old cigar on theside of his mouth. And his dad would

(03:37):
chew on dried poison oak stemsto build up immunity so that when
he was working on the ranches,he never got poison oak. And they
would chew willow branchesbecause there's aspartame, natural
aspartame built into willowfor sore throats and all kinds of
stuff. He even. Oh, this is agood story. He already got me into
the good stories, man, it'sawesome. He. Have you ever heard

(04:01):
of water witching?
I have. It involves a stickwith a fork at the end, right?
Yeah. A willow branch, specifically.
Okay.
And my grandfather wanted toperfect. Oh, my God, this is a great
story. I haven't told this ina while. Perfect. Water witching.
So he would have friends burygiant jars out in the crop crops,
the croplands. And he wouldpractice with the willow branch,

(04:25):
going and seeing, seeing if hecould identify where the water was.
And he got so good at it. Inever got to see him do this. So
this is all stories from him.But. But there is one resulting story.
We had 52 acres above thecountry club, and that's where I
knew my grandparents mostlyliving. And we were expanding the

(04:48):
well. And he went in by himhimself. He never let anybody watch
it. He went and water witchedit. And he staked where he wanted
the well to be placed. Andthen the big truck, right, the big
drilling trucks come in andthey have to position themselves
in a certain way. And thenthey go ahead and they start drilling.
Well, the truck couldn't getit in the right area. And so they

(05:09):
decided that, you know, 15ftover one direction was close enough.
So they started drillingthere. And my grandfather Was one
of those, like, would do dealsby shaking his hand and his word
was solid and you do what yousay you're going to do and all that
stuff. And he could notunderstand why they drilled it 15

(05:31):
foot different. So theydrilled it and it came back. It was
like 50, you know, 50 gallonsper minute or something. It was not
great. And, you know, thedrillers were like, sorry, I guess
there's no water down there.He's like, no, I asked you to drill
here. I want you to drillhere. And he kind of, you know, kind
of verbally go back and forthwith them. They finally moved the

(05:53):
truck in an area they thoughthe was, you know, this crazy old
man. They put, you know, theystarted drilling exactly where he
put it. You want to. You wantto guess how many gallons per minute
that sink was?
You said 50. I'll go 500.
It's 500 is a little crazy,but. No, it's okay. Yeah, 100 and
is somewhere between 120 and130 gallons per minute. NASA all

(06:15):
in well. And so.
Wow.
Yeah, that's a little insightof my grandfather. He. So, yeah,
I grew up a lot with him. Hetaught me pretty much how to critically
think and build anything. Hehad a lot of old trucks and built
his first car for himself as akid. And I learned to drive the ranch
truck when I was, I don'tknow, 12 or something. Big stick

(06:38):
GMC thing. So. Yeah, yeah. So,yeah, I'm a California native. Bring
it back.
No, that's. Look, I love thatstory, you know, and the way you
closed it with the termcritical thinking. Think about how
that sets you up for life at avery young age. Well, that's just.
That's fantastic. Water.Witching water. San Luis Obispo,

(07:00):
right on the coast. I'm justgoing to guess, you know, I grew
up in San Diego. I'm justgoing to guess that the Pacific was
a part of your life in one wayshape or another.
It definitely was. I findingmy place as a kid was. Was difficult.
I mean, I'm sure it'sdifficult for most, but I went to
a small Catholic school sincethird grade, and so I was with the

(07:25):
same group of people, same 30kids or something from third grade
all the way up through highschool. I went to Mission College
Prep high school and graduatedclass of 36 or something like that.
Super small. So I was alwaystrying to find my identity. And so
I was split between, as Imentioned before, time with my grandfather,

(07:48):
which was a lot of time on theranches. He Had a number of properties.
He had, you know, hundreds andhundreds and maybe thousands of acres
out in crease of plains thatwas wheat farming. So I spent a lot
of time there and the otherhalf of my time I spent trying to
be a beach bum. And it'sinteresting about San Luis Obispo
specifically because it's sorooted in a lot of agricultural,

(08:13):
you know, history. But it'salso part of some of the most beautiful
coastline you can find in thestate. It's such a, such a unique
area. And so my childhood verymuch looked like the dichotomy between
those two. Sometimes you wouldeven catch me at the barns with my
flip flops on and my Bermudashorts. So yeah, that's. Yes, I did

(08:36):
spend a lot of time surfing,which led me into volleyball. Beach
volleyball was a huge thing.Mine, it still is today. I still
love playing on the sandcourts. But yeah, so, yeah, a lot
of, a lot of water sports.
I gotta tell you, I didn'tknow about the volleyball. So I live
here in St. Petersburg,Florida and there's a great court

(08:57):
set up right down just pastthe Vanoy Hotel. And I walk by those,
those players, you know, everySaturday for sure, but other days
while they're out there, I,I've tried to play two man volleyball
and there is, I don't thinkpeople appreciate just how difficult
it is to in thick sand andthen try to jump high enough. It's

(09:20):
brutal, it's incredible. Andwatching people play it well is amazing.
Yeah, it's. I love it becauseof the culture. I love the warm sand,
I love being out on the beachand I also love the sport mostly
because it's a two man sportand you have to. A lot of high communication

(09:40):
is required for you to workreally well. So I like the bonding
between, you know, the partnerthat you're playing with. There is
a lot of strategy. But also,you know, growing up as a kid, I'm
6 foot 4, I'm lengthy, lankyand a bit on the skinny side. And
all of the volleyball playerslook like me. I was like, oh, there's

(10:02):
a sport where everybody lookslike me. I don't have to be £250
and like in the gym every, youknow, every day to play this sport.
So yeah, I played that and Iplayed tennis. I almost went semi
pro with tennis. James, by theway, my brother also plays tennis.
We, we, we both grew upplaying tennis and we were both very
good. And then soccer too.
Very tall. Two very tall menwho can probably whale on a first

(10:25):
serve. So that's a huge advantage.
Yeah. And he and I both playedsoccer and I guess you can probably
imagine the position. We bothplayed soccer. We were both keepers.
Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah.
Cool. It was funny when youwere talking about the, the two people
working together and why it'sso important, the communication once

(10:45):
again, I'm thinking a raisethere. I'm thinking of that having
some power and some, someimpact. Right. It's the ability to
communicate. So we'll keepmoving down this path. I, I mean,
I could talk to you about.Because I'm a California kid, we
had to talk here for the nextthree hours, but let's, let's accelerate
this through. After finishinguniversity, you joined the Marines.

(11:05):
I did.
And that's, that is notsomething that I get a lot of on
the podcast. So I would loveto have you share with me, you know,
why that path. And thenultimately, I think, you know, of
the, of the, of all theservices you can join the, the, the
Marines, I think really aregoing to set you up, down a path
for success. Am I correct withthat assessment?

(11:27):
Yeah. I think any time spentin the military, regardless of brand,
is important. There arecountries in the world that require
that of their citizens, and Ifind that very interesting. You know,
growing up in San Luis Obispois wonderful, but it's also a very
small town and I was, youknow, very young. I tried. I went

(11:50):
a year to Cal Poly and Istudied materials engineering and
it just wasn't a fit for me. Ineeded, I don't know, I needed something.
I needed something bigger. Ihadn't really left St. Louis that
much, so. And I needed, I knowI, I knew I needed something really
tough because I have a abilityto see systems very easily and navigate

(12:16):
around them and sort of, youknow, if I can find a way to kind
of get things done but not befully invested in it, then I'm going
to circumvent that system alittle bit because my brain gets
kind of crafty like that. So Ineeded a branch that wasn't going
to let me fly. I needed abranch that was going to hold me
to the utmost accountability.I'm also slightly elitist, so I like

(12:40):
the idea of like, the MarineCorps is the elite brand. Right.
So there was a lot of that inthe decision making. And boy, was
I for, in for a wake up call.I mean, it happened. When you sign
up, things happen awfullyquickly. And from the first bus ride
down to the processing stationto where you get off that bus onto

(13:04):
those Yellow footprints.
It's.
It's a whole thing. You. It isAlice in Wonderland, like. And, you
know, I could. We could do awhole podcast on the design of boot
camp, by the way, because it'sactually quite fascinating how they
psychologically move youthrough three phases. You know, the

(13:26):
first phase being breaking youdown, the second phase being all
about giving you the tools tobe effective in combat, teaching
you every single weapon. Andthe first one is polishing you up.
You learn about all thehistory, you learn how to do parade,
march, you learn about thecustoms and all that stuff. So you
come through with a fully. Afully polished, you know, identity

(13:49):
as a Marine and not a robot byany means. It's a. It's a, you know,
a full. A fully fledged humanwho is really focused on mission
accomplishment. I bring upmission accomplishment, and this
will be a little kickoff lateron in this podcast when we talk about
what I draw from military intomy corporate work. But, you know,
the Marine Corps is very clearabout their goal setting. Mission

(14:14):
accomplishment is number one,and number two is unit cohesiveness
or unit morale. And above all,mission has to be accomplished. But
they are very acutely awarethat you can't accomplish a mission
if you can't take care of yourpeople. And so that really becomes
a framework for almosteverything I do moving forward in

(14:36):
my career is how do we drivegoals forward and how do we accomplish
where we're trying to get? ButI know that humans are not a commodity.
The most important part, andthe strength is how well your unit
moves together. And you'reonly as good as your weakest link.
And how do I move these peoplealong with the goal and take care

(14:57):
of them? Because they'rereally the ones that are going to
get you to the end.
Wow. Yeah, that's. That'sfascinating. I know a few Marines,
I play golf with a couple ofMarines, and there's no, no one that
I would want to be stuck in abad situation with than them, just
by the way they react. Andsome of the things that I've seen

(15:17):
them do, I mean, it's justincredible. So. And I have to. I'm
going to say thank you foryour service because. Unbelievable.
I think that's fantastic.There's a lot of people in this business
whose families were in realestate. You talked about your grandfather.
That's. There's definitely. Heowned a lot of properties and things.
Your brother. I. I'm not sureif there are other people in your
family that are in thebusiness, but you didn't decide to

(15:40):
go that route. And was it, wasit the rebellious side of Christian
that we're going to talk about here?
Yeah, I mean, I think that's agood. Every young man goes through,
I assume every child goesthrough some sort of rebellion. A
young man goes through it, Ithink differently than. Than a female
child does. I know from myexperience, I pretty much wanted

(16:03):
to shed everything and, andcreate my own past that I owned intentionally
me. And I think the first realdecision that I made onto that path
was joining the Marine Corps.That was my decision, that was my
accomplishment, and that wasthe baseline for everything that
came after, for sure. But,yeah, it was definitely a rebel against

(16:31):
what I had grown up around,which was wonderful, frankly. It
was. It was great. Again, mygrandfather was a truly key figure,
but to take nothing away from,you know, my mom and my dad, My mom
was a real estate agent. Mydad was a broker and a finance guy.
My grandfather, even though hewas so much into ranching and all

(16:54):
of that, he was also abrilliant businessman who owned a
brokerage. Also mygrandmother, his wife was into architecting
and creating floor plans andalso property owning and flipping.
And all of this was around my,you know, was just in my peripherals
as I was growing up. So muchso, by the way, I imagine my first.

(17:15):
My first, my first word waseither escrow or some profanity related
to something that happened insome transaction. Because my mom,
My mom is a very fiery person.Yeah. And, and, but, you know, as
a child, looking up at yourparents in this way, I think, you

(17:38):
know, you look up at your momand your dad who are providing for
you and who are struggling andyou're trying to make sense of the
world or whatever. But my mom,being a uniquely a real estate agent,
gave a very. Gave me a veryinteresting perspective. You know,
agents struggle every day,like every single day. And I watched

(18:01):
my mom sacrifice commissionsjust to make deals happen and struggle
to make sure that she was, youknow, making enough money so that
we, you know, me and mybrother had whatever we needed to
have, whether it was going toprivate schools or, or sometimes
just, you know, food andclothes. We were not the most well

(18:22):
off family growing up. And so,you know, my mom and dad worked really,
really hard. And so watchingmy mom, you know, struggle or watching
my mom really. And I imagineany real estate agent that is listening
to this can. Can attest, but,you know, she, she's a pleaser person.

(18:42):
Like, she went through all ofher professional experience trying
to do great things for herclients. Like she, she Celebrated
in their successes. Gettingthem to the finish line and into
their home was the whole goalfor her. And whatever it took, if
she had to cut her commissionin half, then that's what she had
to do. But oftentimes, and Ican remember very acutely the times

(19:04):
when, you know, sometimesclients screw over real estate agents.
They'll ghost them, though. Mymom would invest time and energy
and sometimes money into this,and then next thing you know, they're
like, yeah, whatever, I foundsome other agent. We're going to
go ahead and write it off overhere. And it's like, it's just devastating.
And so, you know, through theprism of a young, you know, a young

(19:26):
child looking at their momstruggle in that way. I have to imagine,
though I hadn't really overtlytalked about this in this way, so
thanks, Bill. But I imaginethat somewhere deep in my programming
that drives what we're tryingto do at Raise. I see so much of

(19:48):
the struggle nationally withthe disconnect between what agents
do and what their clientsperceive that they do. It's like
I'm reliving my childhood allover again. So maybe there's some
Freudian thing happening, Idon't know. But I'm here to help
fix it.
Well, I can now say missionaccomplished. Before we get to Raise,

(20:12):
I. I would love to hear whatyou did instead of real estate, which
is you were. I'm going toreally, I'm going to butcher this
for you. But you were an audioengineer, but you also ran. You.
You were management level,doing things with sound. Not only,
not only music, but also film.I mean, I see that all the time.

(20:35):
Like, my wife and I love themovies. We go to the movies all the
time. I see all the peoplethat were involved in the sound of
the movie. I have no clue whatthey did. I mean, I mean, I know
they all had microphonesprobably, and really good recording
devices, but talk about thatworld a little bit, I think it's
fascinating.
So let's go, let's go. I'mgoing to make a reference and then

(20:55):
I'll bring it full circle. So,all right. The end of my. Towards
the end of my audio career,what I was doing, what I did for
fun was I was a dj. And so.And I'll come back to this, but I'm
going to use a reference fromDJ Land to go back into my childhood,
and then I'll bring us backforward. So when you're looking for

(21:15):
some old record, we refer tothat as going deep in the crates.
So we're going to go deep inthe crates for a second and then
I'll come, come back. So Ihave a long history of music in parallel
to all that was happening inmy childhood and the sports and.
And, you know, being with mygrandfather and watching my mother

(21:37):
and all that stuff. My momtook me to violin lessons for the
first time. So my firstinstrument instrument was violin.
I did that for a period oftime. I was pretty good at it, but
I kind of lost interest anddropped it. Then my grandmother was
like, well, you should learnpiano. And so I learned piano. I
have nearly perfect pitch. Andwould drive her absolutely bonkers

(22:01):
because she would try to teachme how to sight read. And I would
just be like, grandma, justplay this. Just play it for me. And
I could hear it. And as soonas she would play it, I'd be like,
okay, it's this and this andthis. And then I could be play it.
And she would just. She'd loseher mind. And so to this day, I can't
read any music. So I never gother to teach me how to sight read.
But I can pretty much figureout anything, anything by. By listening

(22:24):
to it. So that was my nextinstrument. Then I left for the military.
And halfway through themilitary, my roommate was a guitar
player and we went to somebonfire and he and I wrote a song
together. And he was playingguitar and I was singing backup and

(22:46):
he was singing lead. And thenthat was really cool. And then he's
like, you know, it's kind ofstupid that you just are sitting
next to me singing backup. Youshould learn how to play an instrument
with me. I was like, allright, what bass? And he's like,
yeah, learn the bass guitar.So taught myself the bass guitar.
And so then Adam and I starteda band while we were in the military,

(23:09):
because why not? And weactually were fairly successful.
We had some newspaper writeups. We played probably some venues
you've heard of down in SanDiego, so. Belly up.
Oh, my God. Doug was the leadguy for the Mardells, and we were
up there all the time checkingthem out. Continue.
I know, yeah, we've played abunch of venues all over Oceanside

(23:33):
and all the way down into SanDiego. And we even did Battle of
the Bands with some fairlyfamous bands that we won't talk about.
But ultimately, the MarineCorps didn't necessarily love the
press we were getting andsplit us all up. So drummer went
to. Where did drummer go? CampLejeune on the East Coast. Adam went

(23:57):
to Okinawa, Japan, and I was.I was well, enough connected on base,
I got to stay put, so I didn'thave to go anywhere. So, yeah, so
that the band sort ofdissolved. And then I found Raving.
I went to my first electronicmusic festival in San Diego at the

(24:17):
Sports arena and I saw Rabbitin the Moon, Planet Soul and a bunch
of other. A bunch of otherDJs. Mind blown from that moment
and I fell deep, deeply inlove with electronic music. And that
started my trajectory intoelectronic music and DJing. I had

(24:38):
about a year left in themilitary, and by the time I got out
of the military, I needed ajob. But I was deeply into that scene
and beginning to DJ on my own.And my uncle is a assistant director
for film and he got me myfirst PA job and I started working
different films in LA as a PAand sort of working my way up through

(25:01):
those ranks while I was alsopartying and DJing and doing all
the things. And thenultimately I got a call. My uncle
got. Got called in with hisbest friend Peter Donen to direct
a special effects departmentfor a movie called U571. It's a submarine

(25:26):
movie with Harvey Keitel andJon Bon Jovi about, about finding
the Enigma machine. We crackedthe code and that saved us from losing
that war. But the. That tookus to an island in the middle of
the Mediterranean calledMalta. And Malta is unique because
it has the largest water tankbuilt on a cliff on the side of the

(25:51):
island so that you can domodels inside of this water tank
and you can shoot undergroundunderwater with it and control the
environment. But if you set acamera on one side and shoot across,
you can shoot across thehorizon until the ocean. And then
it looks like you have a modelthat's in the ocean. And so that's

(26:11):
where we were as a Dino DeLaurentiis film. And I was there
for eight months. I brought myDJ records with me and went to Finland
and DJed there while I wasworking on the film and came down
and, you know, just had allkinds of fun in Europe. And then
when I came back to theStates, that's when I wanted to settle
down and focus on how am Igoing to actually make a career out

(26:34):
of this. So I put myselfthrough engineering school, audio
engineering. It was called LosAngeles Recording Workshop at the
time. I graduated like secondto top of the class. And they invited
me to stay back and teach fora bit, which I did. My first internship
was. My dream internship wasworking alongside the producer at

(26:55):
Moonshine Records, which isthe largest electronic label, independent
label in North America at thetime. Wow. And that's kind of where
it all began. I was interningby doing things like copying CDs
and, you know, doing somebasic audio editing. And then I ultimately
took over the entireproduction. Over the years, I did

(27:17):
all of the mastering, I didall of the editing, all of the vinyl
production for that label, andstarted to carve a name for myself
in the industry because Iwould work with everybody, and I
also would Ghost mix, Ghost DJmix for a lot of big European DJs
that didn't have the time orthey couldn't come here to record

(27:38):
something. So they would sendme their track list, I would dj,
they'd approve it, and we'dsend it out. I did that for many,
many years. And then ourgeneration, we get to see a lot of
median shift. Right. We sawvinyl that went to tape, that went
to CD, that went to MP3. Andduring the MP3 era, a lot of the

(28:03):
independent record labelsreally were hurt by, you know, the
ability to share music. And soMoonshine ultimately started to close
down. They gave me all theequipment and they said, you should
go start your own thing. And Iwas like, how? This is amazing. Thank
you. And I still did work forthem, but I started my own company
called Engine Room Studios.And from there, I did both independent

(28:27):
film, audio, and audiomastering for all electronic music
and vinyl creation. I think Ihandled something like 60% of all
domestic vinyl production fora few years for electronic music
there for a while. Yeah.
Wow.
Yeah, it was a lot of fun.
So, like, I think it's called.Is it Sound City? What's the name

(28:49):
of the Dave Grohl documentary?Yeah. Great. It was so cool to watch
that right in this board thatthis. This thing that they could
do with all the performersthat came in and all the stars from
the 60s and 70s. Yeah, that'snot your world. You're not bringing
people in. A lot of that stuffis going to be done, you know, in
files. Right. For the mostpart. And that. So it's a different

(29:11):
world.
Yes, so. And I may have beenslightly misleading. I love electronic
music. Like, that's at myheart. But I also. I am a collaborator
through and through. And themoment. For anybody who plays an
instrument and they played ina band and they lock in with their

(29:34):
bandmates and they find thatflow state that groove, there's really
nothing better than thatfeeling. And so while I was still
doing all of this, you know,production work for film and electronic
music, I was also cultivatingyoung bands and working with Actual
live musicians and producingand whatever. And this draws me to

(29:55):
one of my mentors, if you cancall him that. He doesn't know me,
but he almost ran me over thecar. Funny story, but Rick Rubin
was my producer, like idol,and he has a wonderful book that
came out, the Creative act,it's called. And I draw a lot of
inspiration even today atRaise, you know, we'll get into how

(30:19):
much Raise is actually acreative company, surprisingly enough.
But Creative act talks aboutwhat's important in the creative
process. How do you get to thecore emotion, or how do you get to
the thing you're trying tocommunicate, regardless of medium.
And, you know, I spent so muchof my fun, you know, 20s and 30s

(30:45):
in audio and filmcollaborating. But my superpower
is I'm able to listen andinterpret differently than I think
a lot of people do. I listendifferently to what people say, and
I can read in between thelines. I can feel the emotion differently
than what they want. That'swhy I'm so good at product feedback,

(31:07):
because it's never what theysay. It's something else. And I.
It's hard for me to reallynail it down. But, you know, even
my. My trainers are like, howdo you get to the core so quickly?
What they're. What they'retrying to. Well, it's because I'
spent decades working withartists who want space and need to

(31:29):
get something very true andpointing out. And it's really about
reducing barriers and clearingout noise. And sometimes that process
is super messy. Oftentimesit's get it all out and let's start
stripping away. Let's get it,let's minimize it. Let's find what
we're really trying to sayuntil we get to the most purest thing.

(31:50):
So. So, yeah, it's, you know,again, I love the electronic music,
but I. Anytime I can, I cancollaborate with somebody and I can
work on, you know, work atthat level is everything. By the
way, I did leave out somethingyou might like. I don't talk about
this very often because I justhaving me talk about me in the first

(32:13):
place, Bill, is tough. I don'tknow why you got me going and I'm
having fun, but my.
Job, I've been doing it for 10years, so it's, you know, you pick
up skills.
The end. The end. Ish time.My, My. My work in audio, I was working
as a mix engineer for DaveAuday, who was the guy who hired

(32:35):
me as an intern way back whenI came out of school. He was the
guy the producer at MoonshineMusic, and I had stuck with him for
decade or more. And ultimatelywe won a Grammy for. For remix of
the year for Uptown Funk. Sothat was Bruno Mars. Yeah, Bruno
Mars. Yeah. Yeah. So it was alot of fun. And some other time when

(32:58):
we have a beer or something,I'll tell you the story of the Grammy,
because that was.
I can't wait.
Yeah, I. I almost missed thewhole thing. And it was. It was.
It's a good one.
Sorry. Sorry, Listener.
This is for.
This is for me. All right,well, let's. Let's. Let's talk about.
Let's talk about what you'redoing with Rayse. So I mentioned
Bondylin earlier, but BondylinJolly now with the Wav group. Right.

(33:22):
She wrote an article, and Ilove the headlines. I wanted to just
give you this. And it saidthat Rayse has created the buyer
presentation on steroids. AndI think that had to feel pretty damn
good. Right? I mean, that's a.That's a great way to look at it.
Talking about the creative actand then talking about this. Bar's
presentation is aninteresting. It was an interesting

(33:45):
connective tissue there. Idid. When I, you know, when I left,
started working in operationsand started crafting my corporate
acumen and these sorts ofthings. But towards the end of that
path, before I landed atRayse, I was running a real estate
team for my best friend out ofBeverly Hills who may or may not

(34:06):
be on one of those Netflixshows. And so we're talking luxury.
Yes, we're talking. Yeah,we're definitely talking luxury.
But what was interesting isthat team was highly sophisticated.
It was a team of 60 hardcore,really hungry agents who were trying
to make it in the luxurymarket. And we. That team was running
one of the most advanced flexprograms. Something like 1500 leads

(34:30):
were coming down per month forthis flex team. We had no ISA department.
We were standing up an ISAdepartment and working on the operational
efficiencies to get this allworked out. And essentially, I was
watching these reallydedicated agents driving all over
Southern California forclients that were showing up with

(34:54):
zero context, zero history.They had no idea who this is. They
got a lead. They took the leadbecause they need a lead. They have
no real life much. They don'thave much idea about who this person
is. The client certainly hasno idea who this agent is. And then
they show up at the driveway,and I like to call it the driveway
consult, where the agent issupposed to dance this strange and

(35:14):
awkward scenario where, hey,I'm here to show you this house.
But you don't know me and youprobably don't really want me talking
too much or do you want metalking? Or are you working with
an agent or not an agent? AndI'm trying to make you my client.
And we're going to do thisawkward thing and we're going to
try and figure. And I justlike, this is insane. This is. I.

(35:35):
You're putting these pooragents who have. Now this one agent
in particular was all the wayin like van eyes and drove all the
way down to Marina Del Rey forthis particular appointment. So spent
an hour and a half in the car.And this is, this is their experience
of trying to navigate. I usethat little story as, as one side

(35:56):
of the spectrum that we try tosolve with this buyer's presentation.
So one side of it is there'sclients and agents who are meeting
the first time and they haveto somehow. Agents have to somehow
convince this client thatthey're the best agent for the job
and that this experience isgoing to be different. And if they're
coming off of a portalexperience, it's hard to compete

(36:18):
with the rich information anddata that comes off of realtor.com
or Zillow or whatever. Thatexperience for a consumer is very
rich. Like they get all a lotof information. So they're showing
up to these things thinkingthey know everything. And then there's
an agent who's trying to belike, eh, you don't really know everything.
And now I have to convince youto come off of dreamland and into

(36:41):
some reality that I know. Andthat's a tough thing to do. Right?
There's a big psychologicalleap there. So one half of the spectrum
is for that scenario. Theother side of the spectrum is, well,
some agents are workingdirectly at other sphere and they
have a relationship with thisperson. They don't need to convince
this person that they'reawesome. They need to convince this
person that they're going to,you know, that this process is going

(37:04):
to be different or what istheir strategy that's different than
from another agent or thisagent that they're competing against
is offering a cheapercommission. So what makes, you know,
this agent worth more money.So those are the two sides of the
spectrum that we tried tosolve. Being a nonlinear thinker,
I thought that the bestapproach here would be a nonlinear

(37:27):
approach. So the biggestdifference in our buyer's pres is
that we do not take it in alinear approach. This is a fully
modernized, digitalinteractive, nonlinear experience
that provides the agent theability to articulate in Any story
form they want from I've knownyou for 30 years to I have no idea

(37:49):
who you are and you have noidea who I am. I can craft a story
tailored to that client basedon choosing this nonlinear format.
And it's been well received.First of all, it doesn't look like
anything like it is, it's,it's gorgeous, it's multi dimensional,

(38:10):
it's nonlinear, it's datarich. So a lot of it draws on the
value and historical thingsthat this particular agent has done
so they can speak about them.Because agents really don't know
how to talk about themselvesvery well. It's an awkward thing
to talk about yourself. So youdon't see this because you get people

(38:30):
to talk about themselves allthe time, but people do. Yeah, but,
but, but selling yourself is,is, I mean, let's be honest, selling
yourself sucks. Right.
Well, it's just true. But ifyou know the power of getting someone
to talk about themselves.
Right.
I think is, is a skill and Ithink it's important. Right. And

(38:52):
being curious is, I think,something that, you know, really
good salespeople in all kindsof types of business are good at
doing. Right.
Agree.
Instead of just spewing outtheir stuff, they're trying to really
figure out what that painpoint is. And you obviously, as a
company, you've done that verywell. And I know it's you, James
and Christine who are the cofounders of the company. And obviously

(39:15):
you all have this incrediblepassion. You know, you might have
a different level, I think asI'm talking to you. But, but it's
just been amazing to see. Ithink I saw you for the first time
a couple of years ago at aT360 event. Right. You were just
talking about what it wasgoing to be. I don't think this buyer
presentation was there yet.Didn't exist. Yeah. So this is, you're

(39:38):
constantly, constantly kind ofevolving and growing while you're
starting up a company. It'spretty, it's amazing.
Yeah. The product strategy forRayse was intentional. We wanted
to provide a buyer. First ofall, we, we knew this lawsuit, we
were aware of this lawsuit foryears and years and years before.
Yeah.

(39:59):
So we weren't gambling. It wasdefinitely a tailwind. It helped
us get our message out. Andeverything we thought was going to
happen, frankly, has happened.We, we, we knew those lawsuits were
going to come across. We knewbuyer's agents were going to get
left, you know, hung out todry. We figured that commissions,

(40:23):
if Brightside was able tonegotiate their own commissions that
those commissions mightincrease, which is true. We're seeing
those some agents are notwinning, some agents are. But those
who can articulate their valueand process the best are winning
and now have the power tonegotiate their own commission away
from what the seller side isgiving them. It's a whole new paradigm.

(40:46):
So, and it just hasn'tcompletely settled, right. Like we're
BCS are being signed. Great.That's the first hurdle and that's
wonderful and that, that'sreally healthy for the industry.
But you know, I, I go to, I goto a number of brokerages and I'm
like, yeah, what's youraverage, you know, commission rate
on your buy side? They'relike, oh, it's holding strong in

(41:07):
2.45. I'm like, that's great.Why isn't it? Three?
Yeah.
Why isn't it, why, why youdon't think your agents are worth
it? Do your agents not thinkthey're worth it? I mean, you know,
I, I, I know on the raiseddata platform, I know the number
of hours that agents areputting in it. I know the strategy

(41:28):
and the negotiations and allof the things that they do based
on what our platform isdefining. I know that they're worth
it. And so again, back to thisBuyers prez was, was a way for them
to not only win more deals andstand out and differentiate themselves,
but also let's sign thoseBRBCs at the highest number possible

(41:51):
so that you are empowered ifyou need to negotiate your commission
down, at least you're startingat the highest possible number and
raise gives all of the proofand all of the data about what's
happened and what's going tohappen. So that again, agents are
empowered to negotiate from aplace of power. Like they have that,

(42:13):
that validation and proof andthe clients aren't left wondering,
well, I don't really know whatyou've done or what you're going
to do. And this other guy sayshe's going to do it cheaper, so I'm
out. And then, you know, youhave a young child looking up at
his mom crying that she lost adeal. And now we've gone full circle.
Right, Bill.
You bring it back like no oneI've ever interviewed. Let me, I've,

(42:39):
you know, I do research alittle bit when I'm going to be talking
to someone I haven't, I don'tknow very well and some other outlets
I found you havingconversations and you talk about
the fundamental differencebetween that typical SaaS prop tech,
right? There's tons ofcompanies out there. And what's that
big differentiator for Rayse?

(43:02):
Yeah, look, there's, there's alot of good technology out there.
When you approach atechnological solution, oftentimes
it falls into a category ofautomation or take something off
the plate of the user. Right.This is some redundant task that,

(43:22):
you know, in the context ofreal estate agents that they don't
need to be doing. Sometimesthat's great, but if you take it
too far, you can, you canbegin to create a separation between
what's important and myopinion is the most important thing

(43:42):
in this industry is therelationship between that agent and
their client. That's all thatmatters. Everything else is noise
as far as I'm concerned. Sowhen you start building CRMs that
take on all the automation ofmessaging, top of funnel and you
throw AI on it, that is nowjust taken care of, trying to, you

(44:04):
know, make conversationshappen. What's lost there? The agent.
The agent. That's. That's nottrue. None. That's, that's not intentional.
That's not what the agentdoes. And sure there's operational
benefits and I'm not, I'm notdissing that like there's a, there's

(44:24):
a need for it even. But mepersonally, you know, as I mentioned,
I'm a collaborator through andthrough. The most important thing,
drawing again from my richhistory of finding out what the core,
the most important core threadis, is building trust between agents
and their clients. That's it.That's the only thing that matters.

(44:45):
A client chooses their agentto work with based on trust. Whether
that's trust is based on I'veknown this person my whole life or
this trust is based on. We sawa raised virus presentation that
knocked my socks off and so Itrust this guy. Whatever it happens
to be the, the, the end resultis they trust enough to walk this
journey with you. And it's theagent's job to keep that trust intact

(45:08):
throughout all of it. Not allof it's going to be great. It's going
to be a roller coaster. Someof it's going to be great, some of
it's going to be bad, butthat's the most important part. James's
approach was, has always been.And even in his messaging for his
brokerage next home is humansover houses like he and I are so
in line with how importantagents are. So there was never a

(45:31):
question about how he and I,Christine also, we all, she was an
agent and so she knew thestruggles as well. So we are so,
so at the core focused on whatagents do. And there is never anything
in this product. I will neverput anything in this product that
does not make the agent looklike the hero. And so it just. Even

(45:53):
to make it. Make it even more,like, acute, people have asked me,
well, why don't you putmessaging in your app so that the
clients can talk to the agentthrough your app? I'm like, because
the agent has 500 channelsthat they're trying to communicate
already. The last thing I wantto do is to create another channel
that potentially hurts theagent because they couldn't pick

(46:15):
it up fast enough. And we'veruined the experience on the client
side because the client isexpecting an agent to manage email,
Facebook messenger, WhatsApp,this new raise app. Like, there's
just too many channels forthem to do. We're not going to do
that. We want to empower theagents, and we. We really only want
to put a bracket betweenagents and clients and make them

(46:37):
succeed. That's all thatmatters. And everything builds out
from there. That's why ourapproach is, Is. Is different. Because
there is. There isn't aplatform that does that. You have,
you. Everything else is what Imentioned before. It's taking things
off of their plate, which hasits. It has its place. Like, I'm
not dissing that. But nothingis at the core, showing an 8 what

(47:01):
an agent does to their clientand making that experience modernized
and unique, customized to theagent and just ultimately making
those agents look like thesuperstars they are, because they
really are the ones that are.Like, I had one agent tell me, he
was like, hey, how do I put inyour platform? An hour's worth of

(47:22):
thinking while I was in theshower last night at 4am before I
went to the gym. I'm like,exactly. Nobody knows that stuff.
Here's one. And this evenknocked James over. James, our mom
bought a house here at aretirement community. James probably
not. Probably is a expert inthis field, has, you know, runs a

(47:46):
brokerage, is probably one ofthe most knowledgeable people in
real estate. We had an agentgo through and do this deal with
our mom sent the disclosuresback or the inspections back or something
with a full summary. And Jameslooked at it, and it was a page summary.
And he's like, oh, this makesa lot of sense. Yes, thank you. This
summary is great. I totallyunderstand everything. He was about

(48:07):
to hang up, and he is like,wait a minute. Wait, wait, wait,
wait. How long did it take foryou to go through and summarize this?
Like, how many documents didyou have to read and give me the
summary. She's like, I spentsix hours, I spent six hours going
through to get you the summarythat you digested in 15 minutes.
And James, James, part of theindustry, like smart enough to ask

(48:27):
the question as we're movingbut, but didn't also didn't recognize
that this is what's lost. Thisis the fidelity that's lost for agents
and the work that they dobecause they're, they're service
driven people and they, theythink that they're supposed to shoulder
all of this and, and keep itaway from the client. And it hasn't
served anybody good.Transparent. Not being transparent

(48:48):
has hurt this industry morethan anything.
That is brilliant. You know, Idon't, I don't want to use shiny
object. It's the, it's, it'sputting one more thing in front of
them that they've got to learnthat's going to impact the other
12 things they're learning.
Right.
Is, that's the brilliant partof this. That's, that's really cool.
I mean, so you should, yeah,that's, that's amazing. So, yeah,

(49:10):
love that.
Thank you.
Congratulations to the wholeteam at raise for that. And then
I, I'm sure the name raise wasraising the bar a part of that because
it, for me it seems to be thisbattle cry for over a decade. It's
been around a long time.There's been people that talk about
the, the education level ofagents. Again, I don't think you're

(49:31):
creating a tool that educatesagents. It takes agents who know
what they're doing and givesthem the ability to, to show that.
Is that, do I have that right?
It's, it's, it's a bitdimensional. So yes, you're right,
it can. For the agent whoactually knows what they're doing
to build out their particularway of working into the race platform

(49:56):
and then let the platform justarticulate to all their clients what
they do. So that experiencefor the agent who knows what they're
doing is they just go into theplatform and they're just checking
a number of these things offand the platform lights up and it's
telling their clients all theawesome things that they did and
building reports for them andjust making them look like absolute

(50:18):
rock stars. There's anotherside of it though. You know, as I
draw from my experience backat the team in Beverly Hills, there
was a, they were recruitingvery, very hard and a lot of teams
and a lot of brokerages,recruitment, young talent, because
of the sphere that they bring.And so, you know, some, honestly,

(50:41):
the most valuable thing youcan bring to most scenarios is a
network. The people that you,the circle you draw around you and
the people that you have inthat, that sphere. But as you know,
there's very little trainingto get your license on how to sell
anything and how to marketanything. And there are regulations

(51:03):
and there is process. And youknow, even in la, there was the city
of Beverly Hills workeddifferently than the city of county
of Los Angeles. And so therewas rules and things that happen
very specifically in thosesort of micro markets. What raise
does is because, because thebrokerage has the ability to set
this workflow. It can help andtrain the agents on what you need

(51:29):
to do next. Like, here is yourworkflow and if you ever get lost
in your workflow, just defaultback to this. And it's a way for
the brokerage or the team tokeep quality control over how, how
agents are handling theseclients or leads that come in coaching.
You know, one of our firstinvestors was, was Tom Ferry. And
you know, one of the first,one of the first people I worked

(51:51):
with when I built this thingwas, was a Tom Ferry coach, while
he was an ex Tom Ferry coach.So I, I sat next to a coach and thought
like that and built theproduct so that it can help agents
at scale keep quality acrossall of their clients. And again,
it's just a simple workflowthat they, you know, the brokerage

(52:13):
is handed to them and theyjust go ahead and crush things off.
And again, it lights upeverything for them. So it's both,
it's two, it's both of thosethings. Sales managers can get in
there and now see what agentsdo on a daily basis and be like,
oh, this thing, you know whatI have another agent has a different
workflow and they do thisthing often for their clients and
it's really effective. Youshould think about bringing this

(52:34):
over to your side. And so nowwe have a comparative on the ground
what agents are doing, youknow, young agents versus experienced
agents and being able to seeon the platform how to increase their
efficacy. So it's, it's a bitof both.
Yeah. You know, after, afterI've talking to you for the last,

(52:54):
you know, 45 minutes, you'renot one to rest on your laurels.
I'm just going to throw thatout there. I'm pretty sure I'm right.
Okay, so is it too soon totalk about what's next? I mean, it's,
it's amazing what you've done,but I imagine there's that head is
spinning with opportunities.

(53:15):
The number one thing thatwe're asked for because we focused
on buy side first, where I dothe lawsuits and that was the place
that was, was at most risk.The listing agents who happen to
be the most experienced agentsare also finding how valuable this
is because it's a greatdifferentiator for them. They want

(53:36):
their clients to at any momentbe able to log into their portal
and go, oh wow, this marketingstrategy is working. I can see that
this is getting done. I cansee that's getting done. And the
listing agents who are busy,it's difficult for them to scale,
to constantly call and updatetheir clients. And again, I'm going
to make reference to somethingI said earlier. We have to be very

(53:59):
careful. The client portal isnot a tool that is supposed to replace
the agent speaking with theirclient because then we failed. Right?
Like I don't want to createdistance between those two. I just
want to bring them closertogether. But that client portal
is a place for those, for the,for the clients to land and get quickly

(54:20):
updated. And the mostinteresting thing that's happening
is in that client portal thereare descriptions of everything that's
happened or about to happen.And so the conversations have changed.
It's hey, agent, what are youdoing? Like, I haven't heard from
you in a couple of days. I'mjust looking for an update, which
is sort of an anxiety driven,itchy kind of conversation to. I

(54:46):
see this thing is coming upand I want to ask a specific question
about this thing. Like that'sa completely different feeling. That's
I'm working with you, agent. Ican see what's coming up and I want
to partake, I want tocollaborate with you on what's happening
next. That's the experiencethat a lot of our agents are seeing

(55:08):
right now and want more of. Sowhat's coming next listing side?
What's coming up after that?We, we've got, we've got some.
Probably can't share it, I'm assuming.
I mean I really want to andyou got me, you got me talking. Well,
I'll say this. What's the mostpopular term in real estate right

(55:30):
now for the last year?
AI.
AI. We have to get involved inAI. But we just like everything else,
we're going to take a very,very different approach. We're going
to stay true to the mission,which is making agents and clients
closer. Our, our AI tool,which honestly, man, I'll send you

(55:54):
the write up I made on, onour, on our AI assistant I wrote
it up, I don't know, like fourand a half years ago. It was originally
named Sam. Now it's named Rae.So R A E. And we should have something
by this year stood up. And itshould feel very much like the agent's

(56:17):
assistant in their pocket. We,every agent I know is like, gosh,
I really need an assistant. Iwish I could have an assistant that
drives around with me andtakes notes of all the things that
I've done and tells my clientsand bumps the appointments and lets
them know if I'm going to belate and what am I supposed to do
next and all those sorts ofthings. Well, we're going to introduce

(56:39):
Ray. So that's, that's the,the long range. So, and we have something
cooking up for brokerages too,as part of our go to market. But
we have, we, we have a bigappetite and it's, it'll, it'll be
exciting.
That's awesome. All right. Allright, Christian, it's time to let
you go. I, I, I need one finalquestion answered, though. Every

(57:01):
guest has answered thisquestion and it's your turn. It's
what one piece of advice wouldyou give a new agent just joining
the business?
I'm going to reuse somethingthat I heard at my time working with
the team, but I'll put mylittle flare on it. The power that,
and I mentioned this, I don'tknow, a couple questions back. But

(57:24):
the thing that makes youuniquely you and the power that you
bring to any scenario is thecircle and the people you include
in that circle you draw aroundyourself. There isn't a bigger asset
than that. We don't navigatethis world without the help of the
people around us. So draw thatcircle as large as you can and find

(57:51):
your tribe, the whatever it isthat you love. You know, if it's
sports, then, you know, drawyour sphere of influence around what
you're passionate about andtry and draw it around sports and
the people that you, thepeople you know in sports. My best
friend who runs his team, youknow, he and I were, he and I came

(58:13):
up through the record, recordlabel industry together. He and I
met at Moonshine. He was the Aand R guy and I was the technical
guy. And so he and I made theperfect team as we were assigning
artists. When he left theindustry, he brought all of his contacts
with him and that became hissphere of influence. A lot of real
estate agents, this is theirsecond or third career or something.

(58:37):
So draw from your circle. Thatis your power. That makes you, you
know that's your unique powerplay and you know, cultivate that.
Expand it from there. Staypassionate because the this is a
human to human business. Youare doing service work for a client

(58:57):
and clients will trust you ifthey feel passionate about what it
is that you do. So find yourpassion, find your tribe.
Christian, if somebody wantsto reach out to you, what's the best
way for them to get in touchwith you?
I don't do it. I'm not fun.I'm not fun.
He doesn't like talking about things.
Yeah, you can, you can find meon, on the website. Go to Rayse.com

(59:22):
and, and crush the info at andlet me know that you want to talk
based on some podcasts thatyou, that you heard me on and we'll
set up some time but I'm goingto drag doe with me so whatever.
If you want to reach out tome, I'm dragging Bil in.
That's great, Christian. Thishas been, this has been really cool,

(59:44):
really fun. I'm going to tell.I've done 400 interviews. This is
way up in the top 10.
Literally.
Yeah.
Why am I not the top five, Bill?
Well, you know, I, I haveother people. I've got a tribe. I've
got a tribe that I've got totake care of.
Understandable.
Yeah. So anyways, thank you somuch for your time today. Just, just

(01:00:05):
amazing.
Thank you. I really appreciateyour time and your questions and
thoughtfulness and Iappreciate your platform. Thanks.
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