July 1, 2025 • 37 mins
Brian Boero articulates a pivotal truth within the realm of real estate marketing, emphasizing the lack of creative storytelling and brand development that has historically characterized the industry. He explains how this unclaimed territory has been staked by his firm, 1000watt, as they ventured to redefine conventional approaches to marketing in real estate. Over the years, the company has grown, increasingly recognized for its innovative strategies and compelling narratives. In our dialogue, we delve into the evolution of marketing practices, the challenges agents face in a hyper-competitive landscape, and the necessity for professionals to cultivate bravery in their branding efforts. Ultimately, we underscore the importance of establishing a distinct and authentic identity in a field where differentiation remains critically scarce.
Brian's narrative is punctuated by the challenges he faced while transitioning from political campaigns to real estate. Disillusioned with the political landscape and the individuals within it, he found solace and purpose in the realm of real estate marketing. His partnership with Mark Davison, another luminary in the industry, further propelled 1000watt's success. The duo's dedication to exploring uncharted territories of creativity and branding has led to a distinctive methodology that not only focuses on visual design but also emphasizes the importance of messaging and strategic positioning. This holistic approach ensures that clients are not merely following trends but are instead cultivating a unique brand identity that reflects their values and aspirations, setting them apart in a crowded market.
Takeaways:
- The real estate industry, particularly in the past, lacked innovation in storytelling and brand building, which presented an unclaimed territory ripe for exploration.
- In establishing 1000watt, we recognized the absence of creativity in real estate marketing, allowing us to define a unique space for our services.
- The evolution of our firm was marked by a gradual expansion of projects and clients, leading to our recognition for innovative branding solutions.
- Clients often require encouragement to embrace creative risks, and our established reputation facilitates their willingness to venture beyond conventional marketing.
- Understanding the distinct characteristics of a client’s brand requires an in-depth discovery process, which serves to differentiate them in a crowded marketplace.
- The misconception that immediate engagement in marketing equates to effective brand building overlooks the necessity for a thoughtful and strategic approach.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
There was nobody at the timereally thinking creatively or about
storytelling or brand buildingin real estate.
That territory remained unclaimed.
And so we went out and westaked that as our territory.
And over time we added peopleslowly and we got bigger and bigger
(00:26):
projects and clients andaccounts and we became known for
that.
You're listening to the RealEstate Sessions and I'm your host,
Bill risser.
With nearly 25 years in thereal estate business, I love to interview
industry leaders, up andcomers and really anyone with a story
to tell.
It's the stories that led myguests to a career in the real estate
(00:48):
world that drives me in my10th year and over 400 episodes of
the podcast.
And now I hope you enjoy thenext journey.
Hi everybody.
Welcome to episode 421 of theReal Estate Sessions.
421, wow.
It's a lot of sessions.
Thank you so much for tuning in.
Thank you so much for tellinga friend.
(01:09):
And I am always excited whenI'm recording an episode, but it
goes to a new level here.
This is somebody I've wantedto interview literally for years
and years.
I'm a huge fan of seeing himspeak at any conference and, and
I've also interviewed a coupleof his colleagues at the same company
(01:30):
he's at that he co foundedwith one of them and Jessica Sweezy's
there, of course.
The one he co founded with isMark Davison.
So I think you know who I'mtalking about by now.
I'm talking about Brian Boroand I, this is going to be so much
fun.
In fact, one of my colleaguesat Fidelity is a massive fan of Thousand
Watt and Brian and she crafteda few questions that I'm going to
(01:53):
insert into the episode as wemove along.
I that Brian's ready for that.
I think he is.
Let's get this going.
Brian, welcome to the podcast.
Thanks, Bill.
Thank you for having me.
Oh, look, I, I said it in the intro.
I've.
It's been years and years I'vewanted you on the podcast.
I've seen you speak at many events.
I was a ambassador for Inmanfor like a 10 year span with guys
(02:16):
like Sean Carpenter and youknow, Jay Thompson a little bit.
So it's been great to seereally, just just to watch Thousand
Watt grow from that littlestartup, I guess we could call it
in 2007.
It was just it.
Very cool.
Thank you.
And yeah, that's whateverybody always says.
Well, I see you on stage and Isay, well, you know, honestly, I'm
More comfortable on stage thanI am offstage.
(02:39):
We'll pretend this is a stage.
That's good.
Yeah.
Okay.
Terrific.
So you live in Oakland, in theOakland area.
Is that true?
I live in Oakland, California.
Awesome.
Born and raised here.
Wow.
So born and raised.
I was born and raised in San Diego.
Lived there for almost 40 years.
We lived in to the same state,but they are completely different.
(03:00):
They are different.
And, you know, I always saythat the only place in the United
States with a better climatethan Oakland is San Diego.
So I.
I acknowledge San Diego'spreeminence in terms of weather.
Your winters are just a bitchillier than ours.
That's really the biggest difference.
I think it's not much morethan that.
(03:20):
A little bit.
Yeah.
I mean, it's.
Right now I'm looking out thewindow and we have typical summer
fog.
But that's the worst of it here.
Yeah.
I've been to San Franciscomany times.
Oakland a couple times, actually.
I saw the Blue Jays and theA's playing a playoff game back in
the early 90s.
Oh, yeah.
So are you a fan of all theOakland teams?
No, because they all left, Bill.
(03:41):
They're gone.
Were you a fan of all theOakland teams?
I was never a basketball fan,but I grew up loving the Raiders
until I was 11 years old.
And they left and broke my heart.
And I've rooted against themever since.
And the A's moved to Sacramento.
I mean, this poor Oakland.
It's hard to keep a franchisegoing when there's not ownership
(04:03):
that kind of cares in acertain way.
And for whatever reason, AlDavis and Mark Davis kind of cared.
They came back, but it wasn'tthe same.
They did, and they destroyed that.
They destroyed anything thatwas good about the open Coliseum
for baseball and then left again.
So, you know, whatever.
Forget the Raider.
We're gonna stop.
We'll stop talking.
I wish them the worst.
(04:25):
Well, so do I wish theChargers the worst.
They left San Diego.
Why would I support anythingSpanos's family does?
I'm sorry.
You're very spiteful.
Yes, exactly.
Yeah.
Give me.
Give.
I ask this question a lot, butI think it's kind of fun.
What's the biggestmisconception about.
We'll say even East Bay.
About the East Bay?
Well, look, I mean, I'm awarethat Oakland is known for very little.
(04:50):
That.
That's good, honestly.
It's known for, you know, atthis point, losing all of its sports
teams.
And it's known for being highin crime and just kind of the appendix
To San Francisco, you know,which isn't great.
It's an underrated city.
But, you know, the city has alot of problems.
(05:13):
But I'm going to stay becauseI love it.
One of the greatest things iswe have an enormous, enormous wildlife
area and urban forest as partof the city of Oakland.
And there are redwood treesand miles and miles and miles of
trails.
So five minutes from my house,I can be in a redwood forest and
(05:35):
take a walk after work.
And that's part of the EastBay because it extends from Oakland
into Berkeley, all of thosehills, and then eastward is just
a vast open space.
That's just marvelous.
So that's something mostpeople don't know about the East
Bay.
Yeah, I think that's true.
I, I've, I've been there acouple times.
I've been to San Ramon, whichis around one of the ridges.
(05:56):
It's kind of like, yeah, then,but you, you can just keep going
and going.
Obviously.
Very cool.
You know, I do a little bit of research.
It's not hard to do researchanymore with, with LinkedIn.
I love LinkedIn.
Who doesn't?
But you are.
You're a duck.
You're a.
You went to the University ofOregon for undergrad.
Yeah.
And what brought you up there?
I'm always curious, was it theget away from the parents thing?
(06:18):
Like a lot of people say,nobody's ever asked me these questions
in professional setting.
And I thought, no, no, it'sall good, it's all good.
But when I hear these types ofthings, people try to burnish their
history.
And I'll try to be honestabout it.
Meaning the reason I went tothe University of Oregon, now this
is the late 80s, and I went toa Catholic high school.
(06:42):
It was an all boys Catholichigh school.
And the really good students,they gave you the application to
the University of California system.
Right.
And if you were a middlingstudent, which I was, they gave you
an application to theCalifornia State University system.
And I could, I wasn't a goodenough student to get into any of
(07:03):
the University of California schools.
And then none of the stateschools appealed to me.
So for some reason somebodysaid, well, why don't you try the
University of Oregon?
It's a great college town,blah, blah, blah.
So I applied there and I got in.
That was, that was thebeginning and end of, was a tremendous
place to go to school.
I loved it and I had the timeof my life.
(07:25):
And back then it was really cheap.
So, yeah, it was terrific.
I kind of ended up there justby Accident.
I've been to that campus, too.
It is unbelievable.
Beautiful.
And Dan Fouts was a Duck.
So we're all still thinkingabout that.
Down in San Diego.
You're right about that.
Oh, yeah.
So that's always.
I'll always work the sports inwhenever I can.
(07:45):
Yeah.
But then, but then you, you,you decide, you know what, I'm going
to show that UC system that Ican get something out of them.
And you end up going to UCDavis, which is just north of where
you're at.
Right.
Or just east, I should say.
And.
And another beautiful campusonce again.
It's very cool.
I think.
(08:05):
I actually went to UC Davisfor 1/4 as an 18 year old and couldn't
handle it.
Couldn't handle the missinghome and actually went back home.
Okay, let's say you.
Yeah, okay, you're familiarwith the.
Love it.
I love it.
And I have one question foryou about that, because this, when
I was there, they were theAggies, right?
Yeah.
And they're not the Aggiesanymore, they're the Mustangs.
(08:28):
What's going on at UC Davis, Brian?
Can you clue me in on that?
I don't really know.
Honestly.
By the time I was in graduateschool, I didn't really.
And you know, Davis, I thinkIt's a Division 2 or 3 school.
Athletically, I didn't reallypay much.
I'm not even sure I everunderstood what an Aggie was.
And maybe that was why theychanged it to the Mustangs.
Like we all understand what aMustang is.
(08:49):
Yeah, true.
Right.
I think agricultural school.
Right.
I think that was the whole thing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It started out really as anagricultural school, so, yeah, maybe
that was it.
But, yeah, as opposed toOregon, where, you know, it was a
big deal to go to the footballgames on Sundays.
Right.
University of California,Davis, not so much.
Yeah.
You come out of there withdegrees in political science.
(09:12):
Yeah.
I'm guessing marketing.
Starting a marketing firm orconsultancy was nowhere on your radar.
Yeah, you know, there's somepeople that plan it out and there
are some people who don't.
And I'm in the latter category.
So I had the notion early onthat I wanted to be in politics.
(09:34):
And I worked a bunch of campaigns.
I worked in the Oregonlegislature when I was up there as
an undergraduate.
And I really liked it.
And so I thought, well, youknow, I particularly was interested
in kind of the minutiae oflegislative politics.
I was in the contemporaryDemocratic theory, which sounds incredibly
(09:59):
esoteric, but within it was.
So I'm like, okay, I'M goingto go work campaigns in California
and get my master's degree inpolitical science.
And so that's what I did.
And I have a master's degreein political science from the University
of California, Davis.
If you ever want to talk aboutJohn Locke or Thomas Hobbes, I can
(10:20):
do that, but that's about it.
I met my wife in graduateschool, which was the best thing
about it.
Best thing about UC Davisright there.
That's great.
Exactly.
What was the first job out of school?
Right.
I know we're going to get youto Inman here shortly, which is really
interesting, but what were youdoing first?
Well, I was bouncing fromcampaign to campaign, so political
(10:45):
campaign.
So in the state of California,we have a lot of initiatives, right?
Like ballot initiatives,direct democracy.
And I worked on two or threeof those.
I worked in a couple ofmayoral campaigns.
And so that was kind of what Iwas doing.
I was a political journeyman,campaign journeyman.
(11:05):
And at the same time, I wasteaching assistant during graduate
school.
So that's how I paid my rent.
And what I found out, and thisis, you know, shocker here, that
the people in politics, Ididn't find them particularly admirable.
And I got very jaded very quickly.
(11:26):
So that made me question mydesire to make that a career.
I like the honesty and thestraightforwardness of that answer.
Yeah.
So somehow you get connectedwith Brad Inman.
And I really want to hear thestory of you the first time you said
(11:47):
hello and met Mark Davison.
I didn't ask Mark thatquestion when I had him on the podcast
of meeting you, but I want tohear that story as well.
Okay.
Yeah.
So I met Brad.
Well, no, I had known Brad forsome time.
My youngest brother went toschool with Brad Inman's son.
Okay.
So I knew Brad just throughfamily connections.
(12:11):
Okay.
I didn't see a great deal ofhim, but Brad, in his earlier, earliest
journalistic days, was areporter for the LA Times, did work
in Sacramento, a lot ofpolitical reporting.
And so, you know, I'm a youngkid trying to, like, network my way
around.
(12:31):
And so I ended up talking toBrad because he knew people in politics
and blah, blah, blah inSacramento, which is 10 minutes from
Davis.
So anyway, I kind ofreconnected with Brad that way.
And then around the time I wasbecoming disillusioned with politics
entirely, he was startingInman News, basically standing up
(12:55):
a website and becoming a tradepublication for the real estate industry.
And, yeah, he offered me a job.
And so that's.
I ended up in real estate.
That's 28 years ago.
Now, many, many stories are similar.
That seems like you just kindof trip into real estate, but once
(13:16):
you get there, it can hold you.
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
So Mark Davison, how does heenter the picture?
Oh, gosh.
So I had worked at Inman for afew years and, you know, we syndicated
real estate content online andin newspapers.
They used to be, as, you know,Bill, the Sunday newspaper, most
(13:37):
major metros, had a realestate section that was actually
significant.
Right.
And it was fueled by advertising.
And so we, we licensededitorial content of those papers.
Still at Inman, that was partof the business.
And we had noticed that thisguy Davison, who kept coming up because
he was representing this homeinspector that had a real estate
(14:00):
column, and he was gettingthis guy in all of the Sunday real
estate sections.
And so, you know, we reachedout to him just to figure out what
this guy was doing, and that'show we became acquainted.
And I remember the first timeI met Mark was probably maybe 99,
2000 somewhere in there.
(14:22):
And he showed up at the Inmanoffice, and he was still very much
a creature of the music business.
You know, I know you've hadMark on the show and, you know, that's.
He started an artistrepresentation and was really a person
who operated in that space.
And then, you know, again,another sort of unplanned thing,
(14:43):
ended up representing thisreal estate columnist kind of on
a whim.
So anyway, yeah, he walked inand he was still very much a creature
of the music business.
He didn't look like anybodyyou would encounter in real estate.
And.
Yeah, so Mark has been a.
A friend and a partner for along, long time.
You worked together at Inmanfor a few more years?
Yeah, I think.
(15:03):
I think he had a littleinterlude with some other things.
But I really want to get tothe question that you've been asked
more times than you.
You care to tell us, butlaunching Thousand Watt, the idea
behind Thousand Watt, whatwere others doing at that time?
That they're probably stillnot doing that you do.
But if you can kind of talkabout what was your competition?
Was there competition when youlaunched that, or was it kind of
(15:26):
a new thing where people said,oh, wow, what are they doing?
I'll be very honest about it.
And this, like anything else,you know, that I've said is a Thousand
Watt was born out of circumstance.
And after I left Inman, I waspresident of Inman for a while.
I was there at Inman for eight years.
(15:47):
And so after I left Inman,Mark had left a year or two before
me.
I had then gone to thisstartup that a CEO that developed
software for tablet PCs.
I don't know if anybodyremembers those things, but it's
like a laptop that you canwrite on and it was pretty cool back
in the day.
(16:07):
This is before the iPhone, of course.
Yeah, of course.
And ran that for a coupleyears and it did really well.
And then the housing crashhappened and it started to not do
well.
So that basically we sold offthe code base and the assets to companies
in other categories.
And then Mark and I were like,okay, what do we do now?
(16:31):
And you know, sometimes peopleat that moment say, well, I'm going
to do some consulting for a while.
So I said, okay, let's just dosome consulting together and we'll
start a consulting firm andwe'll call it Thousand Watt Consulting.
And that's really how itstarted and what built the business
from there.
And the brand was really justwriting publicly.
(16:53):
And you know, we, we started ablog that was the early days of blogging
and we would write things thatother people wouldn't write, we would
say things that other peoplewouldn't say.
And we had a distinctive voiceand point of view and that proved
to be pretty magnetic for acertain number of people in the industry.
(17:16):
And that act of writing andjust sharing a point of view publicly
through the blog is what builtThousand Watt.
How long before you kind ofbecame known as the, I mean, Look,
I've seen 50, 60, 70 of yourpieces of art, I'll call them, which
is what you help a brokerage do.
(17:37):
How long did it take for youto get to that?
Not to the level you're attoday, but to go, oh, this is a path
I think we should be going down.
Yeah, I, we're an 18 yearovernight success, I guess.
Right.
There was nobody at the timereally thinking creatively or about
(18:00):
storytelling or brand buildingand real estate.
That territory remained unclaimed.
And so we went out and westaked that as our territory.
And over time we added peopleslowly and we got bigger and bigger
projects and clients andaccounts and we became known for
(18:22):
that.
And Mark's passion really isbranding, the thinking that goes
into that design.
And that became, I think, themost commonly known output of our
company.
But we have always also done alot that is less easy to see visually,
(18:45):
which is strategy, messagestrategy, positioning a company or
a product brand strategy,storytelling, all of those things.
And that really was my bailiwick.
And so Mark is very passionateabout visual design and brand building.
(19:09):
I really always gravitatedtowards messaging positioning the
strategy.
I would imagine, especiallysince this was kind of relatively
new in the world of we'll saybrokerage, that you had to convince
some people, like I'm going toinsert one of Jordan's questions
here because I think she's amazing.
And how do you cultivatebravery in clients who are used to
(19:32):
just kind of playing it safewith their brand?
I mean that's a, that had tobe a big problem early on or at least
an issue, I should say.
Well, it's become easier overtime because as I think our clients
courage to make changes ortake risks increases proportional
to our credibility.
(19:53):
So right, if, if, if, if aclient hires us to do some work and
they know that we have a trackrecord and a reputation and we're
not going to give them a bumsteer or run them off a cliff, right.
That enables them to take somerisks and to have a greater confidence.
And the other thing I wouldsay that is important to that is
(20:17):
process.
A tagline, an advertisingcampaign, messaging strategy.
You know, those things don'tcome out of thin air.
They're the output of a process.
And we become very good at theprocesses that lead to good outcomes.
And so if a client is takenthrough that process, the process
(20:40):
gives them the confidence andthe assurance that everything is
being thought through methodically.
And that's been very helpful.
You know, sometimes peoplelook at design work in particular
and they say, well, that'spretty, that that makes me feel good
or I don't like that.
And design really is not justabout making pretty things.
(21:03):
It is the culmination of anumber of deeply considered factors
and strategic decisions.
And when you take the clientthrough that process, they become
more confident.
When somebody approaches youand says we want to do something
different to the moment thatthey lay eyes on the first, you know,
(21:24):
the final iteration of whatyou're creating.
How long is that process?
Because I'm just guessing thisis not something that happens quickly.
No, it took a few monthsreally for everything that we have
come to know.
Certainly me and Mark andJessica on our team, who you've interviewed
(21:45):
viewed as well, who's I'veknown for over 20 years and has been
with thousand watt for over adozen years.
So we have tons of domain knowledge.
But we still have tounderstand what is true about the
client.
And that could be a brokerage,it could be a proptech company, it
could be a mortgage company.
We work with all builders.
(22:07):
We have to like really figureout what is uniquely true about that
company and that brand.
And so that still requireswhat we call discovery, which is
research.
And we talk to people, weinterview people, we workshop things.
And that's a big part of it.
(22:28):
We just don't shoot from the hip.
Yeah.
It's not like it's one ofthese four things because everyone
fits into these four things.
That's not the truth.
No, it's not.
And well, it's a good facet tothis Bill.
And with real estate brokeragein particular, for the most part,
they're not differentiatedwhat makes company X different from
(22:52):
company Y.
I don't know.
If you kind of squint, theysort of look the same.
So what we need to do is tofigure out, okay, well, what is beneath
the surface there that is truethat you can build something off
of, whether that's visual or verbal.
Yeah.
Brian, once again, anotherJordan insert.
Yeah.
What's the biggest myth inreal estate marketing today and what's
(23:16):
the truth behind it?
What is the big.
That's a really good question.
The biggest myth in realestate marketing today, I think want
to give you a thoughtfulanswer here.
The biggest myth in realestate marketing.
Well, I think there's amisunderstanding, I'll put it that
(23:37):
way.
There's a greatmisunderstanding between brand marketing
and direct response ortactical marketing.
And I think that the realestate industry, because the mentality
is so tied to sort of thisdeal to deal horizon, right?
You get one lead, you convertit, you do one closing, you move
(23:59):
on, right?
You have one quarter'sresults, then you're at the bottom
of the hill for the next quarter.
And we very much focus on thatwhich gets immediate engagement,
conversion attention.
And we do not build thestrategy that should sit beneath
(24:20):
and come before those things,if that makes sense.
So the misconception is thatattention for the sake of intention
is intrinsically good andeffective in real estate marketing.
I think we see a lot of that.
We wrote about that just theother day in our ghost newsletter
(24:41):
where, you know, wehighlighted this growing trend of
agents who are using humor anddancing and sometimes off color human
humor to gain attention intheir marketing.
And it works.
They get thousands andthousands of followers.
And whether or not thatproduces business or whether or not
(25:03):
that builds a brand over timeI think is an open question right
now.
So her, her final, her followup with the truth behind it is that
those things do work.
It's just they're not, they'renot building something that's going
to grow and grow and continueto become this brand that's going
to Be very, you know, important.
(25:25):
I mean, sometimes I use theanalogy of food analogy.
Right.
So like you can live off ofcandy bars and Red Bull for a period
of time and it will produce animmediate satisfaction or response
over time though it does notbuild a strong body or mind.
(25:50):
Right.
That's the equivalent ofattention grabbing, non strategic,
gratuitous shoot from the hip marketing.
Yeah, of course.
What you want to be doing isyou want to nourish your business
and brand, you know, with amore balanced diet that builds strength
and health and wellness over time.
(26:12):
Okay.
So that's how you buildendurance and longevity and health
and, and you know,understandably, most agents in particular,
you know, gravitate towardsthe, the quick, the quick hit.
I'll ask you a another Jordan question.
(26:33):
I love this question.
It's the first time I've everseen anything close to this.
But if you approach realestate marketing like an anthropologist,
right.
Studying a culture, are therepatterns or rituals you would say
that define today's agent or consumer?
And, and if so, are they evolving?
Are they evolving?
(26:56):
I think the state of theindustry is such that agents are
mostly stressed, anxious,confused, and they're looking for
guidance and they're lookingfor something to hang onto.
(27:17):
And I don't know what patternis emerging from that.
The pattern is stress.
It really is.
And for all the reasons thatyou know, Bill and all of your listeners
know, we have too few dealsand too many agents chasing them.
We have consolidation andhyper competition in the industry,
(27:39):
we have all kinds of fightingwithin the industry and then we have
this daily unfolding realityof AI.
And I think agents are justtrying to get their bearings right
now and trying to pay the bills.
It's hard to say what theemerging patterns are with agents,
(28:01):
with consumers, and we've donea lot of research with consumers
over the last four or five years.
Consumers are similarly confused.
And this is the paradox ofconsumer behavior.
Over the last 25 years we havemore and more information.
We have all the listings, wehave all the sale prices, we have
(28:21):
all the data in the palm ofour hand.
But yet most of us are stillcompletely lost when it comes time
to actually sell or buy a house.
And we thought many of us didthat the lawsuit settlements and
all that last year would sortof clarify things and consumers would
be more discerning and theywould know how their buyer agent
(28:43):
got paid and all that.
Like, you know, you can, youcan spend days on end on Redfin or
Zillow and look at all thecomps and those estimates and you
can use chat GPT to tell youhow to buy a house or, you know,
and it's funny how peoplestill arrive unprepared and needing
(29:04):
guidance when it comes time toactually move into real estate transaction
mode.
So I guess a lot less haschanged there with consumer behavior
than I think people sometimes think.
Yeah.
It hasn't been that solutionit was supposed to be, I think.
Yeah.
And an agent still on theirside of the thing still continue
(29:25):
to try to figure out theproper way to educate those consumers.
Yeah.
I have to talk about yoursummit, right?
Yeah.
This is pretty cool.
It's not really a typical realestate event.
I've been to many of them.
You've been to more.
Yeah.
But if there's one feeling ortakeaway that you purposely built
(29:49):
into the summit, right intothat, what would that be?
What's the entire experience about?
The entire experience about isabout delivering the signal through
the noise that exists in theindustry, particularly around marketing,
brand building, and givingpeople clarity around those things.
(30:14):
Because again, particularlywith the effects of AI, people don't
know what to do.
Right.
So how do I find the signalthrough all of the noise that surrounds
me?
Do this, do that, buy this,buy that.
Here's the script you need.
Here's the magic email to send.
Here's the application.
(30:35):
Here's what you should bedoing with AI.
AI is going to destroy your company.
AI is going to grow your company.
It's a lot of static andnoise, Bill.
And we created the event whichwe have, we are announcing, we're
renaming it Signal, called itthe Brand and Marketing Summit, but
we're renaming it Signal forthat reason.
(30:56):
And so we want people to feellike they can come here and get really
thoughtful discussion andstrategic thinking and creative thinking
that helps them build theirbrand and their business.
So that's the idea.
Yeah.
Where do you personally go toget re inspired creatively?
(31:16):
You know, like when you feellike you've hit a wall.
What.
What's Brian doing?
I read a lot of fiction.
I read a lot.
And is there a genre that yougravitate towards?
Well, you know, I like shortstories a lot.
Okay.
I read a lot of novels.
I read some history and biography.
(31:37):
But I have always found, youknow, your output, your output intellectually
and creatively is tightlycorrelated with the inputs you put
into your brain.
And when I'm stuck for anidea, that's what does it for me.
(31:58):
Bill.
Everybody's different.
I don't like business books.
I've read very few of them.
Most of them are overblownblog posts.
So, yeah, I read a lot of fiction.
Is there one you've readmultiple times?
Like, it just.
You keep coming back to itbecause of something that's happening
in that book.
I have one myself, but I'dlike to hear yours.
(32:20):
Yeah, I mean, look, I have myfavorite writers, though she was
known primarily for herjournalism and her nonfiction.
Joan Gideon is my favoritewriter, and she wrote a couple of
novels that I go back to againand again.
I probably read them everycouple of years, and I don't know.
(32:41):
I don't know why.
They just always leave me thinking.
The other novel that I reread,I reread this every couple of years,
too, is the Great Gatsby.
And of course, like most ofyour listeners, you read it in high
school or college.
You know, there's Tom andDaisy and Nick, and, you know, you
(33:01):
kind of get the idea, but Ijust never cease to find wonders
in the language and thewriting and insights about our American
culture by rereading that book.
So that sounds really nerdy,but that's what I do.
That's how I recharge mycreative battery.
(33:23):
I love that.
I would think.
But yeah, it probably,absolutely has helped you in your
business, you know?
Yeah.
Like, I mean, you can't.
You are not, probably notgoing to be successful as a strategist
or a creative.
If your intellectual diet isInstagram Reels and LinkedIn, it's
(33:49):
unlikely.
If it's SportsCenter, willthat work?
No.
Yeah.
Sports Center 100.
Totally.
Okay, good.
I mean, there's some great.
There's some great.
You know, there's.
There's great writing around sports.
Oh, my gosh.
Are you kidding me?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, my God.
Lots of great novels tiedaround sports stuff for sure, starting
(34:11):
with Field of Dreams, but I'llmove on.
Yeah.
Okay, here.
Well, I'm running out of yourtime, so I want to get you this last
question, but I've asked everyone.
Jay Thompson was my firstguest when I was going to do 10 episodes,
because I wanted to see what apodcast was all about in 2015.
Jade's such a great guy.
He is.
He's having the time of his life.
He's having too much fun.
What one piece of advice wouldyou give a new agent?
(34:33):
Just getting started in real estate.
You know, I would tell them to.
To be deliberately different.
And I know that's hard becauseI always say, this is a look around
business with agents.
(34:55):
You know, they look around andthey say, who's the big dog in my
office?
And I need to do what they'redoing or you know, this team is just
killing it doing X, Y or Z fortheir marketing.
So I got to do that.
You know, those are the thingsthat work for other people.
And so agents get sort ofjerked around and doing things that
(35:17):
other people do by lookingaround, which I understand because,
you know, as I said before,it's a scary and anxious time in
real estate.
I would say look really deeplyat what you can do best and what
you are prepared to do betterthan most other agents and then build
off of that and look aroundyou and then figure out how you can
(35:44):
do something different givenyour unique makeup, your point of
view, your personality.
So look inward, not around, Iguess would be my guidance.
Which is hard.
Yeah, it is.
But that's great advice, Ryan.
If somebody wants to reach outto you, what's the best way for them
to do that?
(36:05):
And also how do they get ahold of the dose?
Right.
What's the.
Yeah, because I'm.
Yeah, people can email me, Brian.
Net.
Best way to like get moreThousand Watt for free.
Yeah.
Is sign up for our weeklynewsletter, the Dose.
Just go to our website,thousand watt dot net.
You'll probably get a pop upor something to sign up.
Goes out every Tuesday morningand it's kind of a hit on hey, here's
(36:31):
what's going on in theindustry, but mostly just food for
creative and strategic thinking.
Yeah.
I'm like a raving fanboy of copywriters.
I think the ability to put pento paper, we'll go old school and
have people do things or reactor think another thought is unbelievable.
(36:58):
So I think it's great.
Yeah.
Talking to you and Mark andJessica especially.
It's just been fantastic.
Thank you so much for your time.
Yeah, it's been great.
And I'm always, always lookingforward to the next thing that Thousand
Watts is going to be talking about.
So thank you so much for yourtime today.
Oh, thank you, Bill.
It was a pleasure.
There was nobody at the timereally thinking creatively or about
storytelling or brand buildingin real estate.
That territory remained unclaimed.
And so we went out and westaked that as our territory.
And over time we added peopleslowly and we got bigger and bigger
(00:26):
projects and clients andaccounts and we became known for
that.
You're listening to the RealEstate Sessions and I'm your host,
Bill risser.
With nearly 25 years in thereal estate business, I love to interview
industry leaders, up andcomers and really anyone with a story
to tell.
It's the stories that led myguests to a career in the real estate
(00:48):
world that drives me in my10th year and over 400 episodes of
the podcast.
And now I hope you enjoy thenext journey.
Hi everybody.
Welcome to episode 421 of theReal Estate Sessions.
421, wow.
It's a lot of sessions.
Thank you so much for tuning in.
Thank you so much for tellinga friend.
(01:09):
And I am always excited whenI'm recording an episode, but it
goes to a new level here.
This is somebody I've wantedto interview literally for years
and years.
I'm a huge fan of seeing himspeak at any conference and, and
I've also interviewed a coupleof his colleagues at the same company
(01:30):
he's at that he co foundedwith one of them and Jessica Sweezy's
there, of course.
The one he co founded with isMark Davison.
So I think you know who I'mtalking about by now.
I'm talking about Brian Boroand I, this is going to be so much
fun.
In fact, one of my colleaguesat Fidelity is a massive fan of Thousand
Watt and Brian and she crafteda few questions that I'm going to
(01:53):
insert into the episode as wemove along.
I that Brian's ready for that.
I think he is.
Let's get this going.
Brian, welcome to the podcast.
Thanks, Bill.
Thank you for having me.
Oh, look, I, I said it in the intro.
I've.
It's been years and years I'vewanted you on the podcast.
I've seen you speak at many events.
I was a ambassador for Inmanfor like a 10 year span with guys
(02:16):
like Sean Carpenter and youknow, Jay Thompson a little bit.
So it's been great to seereally, just just to watch Thousand
Watt grow from that littlestartup, I guess we could call it
in 2007.
It was just it.
Very cool.
Thank you.
And yeah, that's whateverybody always says.
Well, I see you on stage and Isay, well, you know, honestly, I'm
More comfortable on stage thanI am offstage.
(02:39):
We'll pretend this is a stage.
That's good.
Yeah.
Okay.
Terrific.
So you live in Oakland, in theOakland area.
Is that true?
I live in Oakland, California.
Awesome.
Born and raised here.
Wow.
So born and raised.
I was born and raised in San Diego.
Lived there for almost 40 years.
We lived in to the same state,but they are completely different.
(03:00):
They are different.
And, you know, I always saythat the only place in the United
States with a better climatethan Oakland is San Diego.
So I.
I acknowledge San Diego'spreeminence in terms of weather.
Your winters are just a bitchillier than ours.
That's really the biggest difference.
I think it's not much morethan that.
(03:20):
A little bit.
Yeah.
I mean, it's.
Right now I'm looking out thewindow and we have typical summer
fog.
But that's the worst of it here.
Yeah.
I've been to San Franciscomany times.
Oakland a couple times, actually.
I saw the Blue Jays and theA's playing a playoff game back in
the early 90s.
Oh, yeah.
So are you a fan of all theOakland teams?
No, because they all left, Bill.
(03:41):
They're gone.
Were you a fan of all theOakland teams?
I was never a basketball fan,but I grew up loving the Raiders
until I was 11 years old.
And they left and broke my heart.
And I've rooted against themever since.
And the A's moved to Sacramento.
I mean, this poor Oakland.
It's hard to keep a franchisegoing when there's not ownership
(04:03):
that kind of cares in acertain way.
And for whatever reason, AlDavis and Mark Davis kind of cared.
They came back, but it wasn'tthe same.
They did, and they destroyed that.
They destroyed anything thatwas good about the open Coliseum
for baseball and then left again.
So, you know, whatever.
Forget the Raider.
We're gonna stop.
We'll stop talking.
I wish them the worst.
(04:25):
Well, so do I wish theChargers the worst.
They left San Diego.
Why would I support anythingSpanos's family does?
I'm sorry.
You're very spiteful.
Yes, exactly.
Yeah.
Give me.
Give.
I ask this question a lot, butI think it's kind of fun.
What's the biggestmisconception about.
We'll say even East Bay.
About the East Bay?
Well, look, I mean, I'm awarethat Oakland is known for very little.
(04:50):
That.
That's good, honestly.
It's known for, you know, atthis point, losing all of its sports
teams.
And it's known for being highin crime and just kind of the appendix
To San Francisco, you know,which isn't great.
It's an underrated city.
But, you know, the city has alot of problems.
(05:13):
But I'm going to stay becauseI love it.
One of the greatest things iswe have an enormous, enormous wildlife
area and urban forest as partof the city of Oakland.
And there are redwood treesand miles and miles and miles of
trails.
So five minutes from my house,I can be in a redwood forest and
(05:35):
take a walk after work.
And that's part of the EastBay because it extends from Oakland
into Berkeley, all of thosehills, and then eastward is just
a vast open space.
That's just marvelous.
So that's something mostpeople don't know about the East
Bay.
Yeah, I think that's true.
I, I've, I've been there acouple times.
I've been to San Ramon, whichis around one of the ridges.
(05:56):
It's kind of like, yeah, then,but you, you can just keep going
and going.
Obviously.
Very cool.
You know, I do a little bit of research.
It's not hard to do researchanymore with, with LinkedIn.
I love LinkedIn.
Who doesn't?
But you are.
You're a duck.
You're a.
You went to the University ofOregon for undergrad.
Yeah.
And what brought you up there?
I'm always curious, was it theget away from the parents thing?
(06:18):
Like a lot of people say,nobody's ever asked me these questions
in professional setting.
And I thought, no, no, it'sall good, it's all good.
But when I hear these types ofthings, people try to burnish their
history.
And I'll try to be honestabout it.
Meaning the reason I went tothe University of Oregon, now this
is the late 80s, and I went toa Catholic high school.
(06:42):
It was an all boys Catholichigh school.
And the really good students,they gave you the application to
the University of California system.
Right.
And if you were a middlingstudent, which I was, they gave you
an application to theCalifornia State University system.
And I could, I wasn't a goodenough student to get into any of
(07:03):
the University of California schools.
And then none of the stateschools appealed to me.
So for some reason somebodysaid, well, why don't you try the
University of Oregon?
It's a great college town,blah, blah, blah.
So I applied there and I got in.
That was, that was thebeginning and end of, was a tremendous
place to go to school.
I loved it and I had the timeof my life.
(07:25):
And back then it was really cheap.
So, yeah, it was terrific.
I kind of ended up there justby Accident.
I've been to that campus, too.
It is unbelievable.
Beautiful.
And Dan Fouts was a Duck.
So we're all still thinkingabout that.
Down in San Diego.
You're right about that.
Oh, yeah.
So that's always.
I'll always work the sports inwhenever I can.
(07:45):
Yeah.
But then, but then you, you,you decide, you know what, I'm going
to show that UC system that Ican get something out of them.
And you end up going to UCDavis, which is just north of where
you're at.
Right.
Or just east, I should say.
And.
And another beautiful campusonce again.
It's very cool.
I think.
(08:05):
I actually went to UC Davisfor 1/4 as an 18 year old and couldn't
handle it.
Couldn't handle the missinghome and actually went back home.
Okay, let's say you.
Yeah, okay, you're familiarwith the.
Love it.
I love it.
And I have one question foryou about that, because this, when
I was there, they were theAggies, right?
Yeah.
And they're not the Aggiesanymore, they're the Mustangs.
(08:28):
What's going on at UC Davis, Brian?
Can you clue me in on that?
I don't really know.
Honestly.
By the time I was in graduateschool, I didn't really.
And you know, Davis, I thinkIt's a Division 2 or 3 school.
Athletically, I didn't reallypay much.
I'm not even sure I everunderstood what an Aggie was.
And maybe that was why theychanged it to the Mustangs.
Like we all understand what aMustang is.
(08:49):
Yeah, true.
Right.
I think agricultural school.
Right.
I think that was the whole thing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It started out really as anagricultural school, so, yeah, maybe
that was it.
But, yeah, as opposed toOregon, where, you know, it was a
big deal to go to the footballgames on Sundays.
Right.
University of California,Davis, not so much.
Yeah.
You come out of there withdegrees in political science.
(09:12):
Yeah.
I'm guessing marketing.
Starting a marketing firm orconsultancy was nowhere on your radar.
Yeah, you know, there's somepeople that plan it out and there
are some people who don't.
And I'm in the latter category.
So I had the notion early onthat I wanted to be in politics.
(09:34):
And I worked a bunch of campaigns.
I worked in the Oregonlegislature when I was up there as
an undergraduate.
And I really liked it.
And so I thought, well, youknow, I particularly was interested
in kind of the minutiae oflegislative politics.
I was in the contemporaryDemocratic theory, which sounds incredibly
(09:59):
esoteric, but within it was.
So I'm like, okay, I'M goingto go work campaigns in California
and get my master's degree inpolitical science.
And so that's what I did.
And I have a master's degreein political science from the University
of California, Davis.
If you ever want to talk aboutJohn Locke or Thomas Hobbes, I can
(10:20):
do that, but that's about it.
I met my wife in graduateschool, which was the best thing
about it.
Best thing about UC Davisright there.
That's great.
Exactly.
What was the first job out of school?
Right.
I know we're going to get youto Inman here shortly, which is really
interesting, but what were youdoing first?
Well, I was bouncing fromcampaign to campaign, so political
(10:45):
campaign.
So in the state of California,we have a lot of initiatives, right?
Like ballot initiatives,direct democracy.
And I worked on two or threeof those.
I worked in a couple ofmayoral campaigns.
And so that was kind of what Iwas doing.
I was a political journeyman,campaign journeyman.
(11:05):
And at the same time, I wasteaching assistant during graduate
school.
So that's how I paid my rent.
And what I found out, and thisis, you know, shocker here, that
the people in politics, Ididn't find them particularly admirable.
And I got very jaded very quickly.
(11:26):
So that made me question mydesire to make that a career.
I like the honesty and thestraightforwardness of that answer.
Yeah.
So somehow you get connectedwith Brad Inman.
And I really want to hear thestory of you the first time you said
(11:47):
hello and met Mark Davison.
I didn't ask Mark thatquestion when I had him on the podcast
of meeting you, but I want tohear that story as well.
Okay.
Yeah.
So I met Brad.
Well, no, I had known Brad forsome time.
My youngest brother went toschool with Brad Inman's son.
Okay.
So I knew Brad just throughfamily connections.
(12:11):
Okay.
I didn't see a great deal ofhim, but Brad, in his earlier, earliest
journalistic days, was areporter for the LA Times, did work
in Sacramento, a lot ofpolitical reporting.
And so, you know, I'm a youngkid trying to, like, network my way
around.
(12:31):
And so I ended up talking toBrad because he knew people in politics
and blah, blah, blah inSacramento, which is 10 minutes from
Davis.
So anyway, I kind ofreconnected with Brad that way.
And then around the time I wasbecoming disillusioned with politics
entirely, he was startingInman News, basically standing up
(12:55):
a website and becoming a tradepublication for the real estate industry.
And, yeah, he offered me a job.
And so that's.
I ended up in real estate.
That's 28 years ago.
Now, many, many stories are similar.
That seems like you just kindof trip into real estate, but once
(13:16):
you get there, it can hold you.
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
So Mark Davison, how does heenter the picture?
Oh, gosh.
So I had worked at Inman for afew years and, you know, we syndicated
real estate content online andin newspapers.
They used to be, as, you know,Bill, the Sunday newspaper, most
(13:37):
major metros, had a realestate section that was actually
significant.
Right.
And it was fueled by advertising.
And so we, we licensededitorial content of those papers.
Still at Inman, that was partof the business.
And we had noticed that thisguy Davison, who kept coming up because
he was representing this homeinspector that had a real estate
(14:00):
column, and he was gettingthis guy in all of the Sunday real
estate sections.
And so, you know, we reachedout to him just to figure out what
this guy was doing, and that'show we became acquainted.
And I remember the first timeI met Mark was probably maybe 99,
2000 somewhere in there.
(14:22):
And he showed up at the Inmanoffice, and he was still very much
a creature of the music business.
You know, I know you've hadMark on the show and, you know, that's.
He started an artistrepresentation and was really a person
who operated in that space.
And then, you know, again,another sort of unplanned thing,
(14:43):
ended up representing thisreal estate columnist kind of on
a whim.
So anyway, yeah, he walked inand he was still very much a creature
of the music business.
He didn't look like anybodyyou would encounter in real estate.
And.
Yeah, so Mark has been a.
A friend and a partner for along, long time.
You worked together at Inmanfor a few more years?
Yeah, I think.
(15:03):
I think he had a littleinterlude with some other things.
But I really want to get tothe question that you've been asked
more times than you.
You care to tell us, butlaunching Thousand Watt, the idea
behind Thousand Watt, whatwere others doing at that time?
That they're probably stillnot doing that you do.
But if you can kind of talkabout what was your competition?
Was there competition when youlaunched that, or was it kind of
(15:26):
a new thing where people said,oh, wow, what are they doing?
I'll be very honest about it.
And this, like anything else,you know, that I've said is a Thousand
Watt was born out of circumstance.
And after I left Inman, I waspresident of Inman for a while.
I was there at Inman for eight years.
(15:47):
And so after I left Inman,Mark had left a year or two before
me.
I had then gone to thisstartup that a CEO that developed
software for tablet PCs.
I don't know if anybodyremembers those things, but it's
like a laptop that you canwrite on and it was pretty cool back
in the day.
(16:07):
This is before the iPhone, of course.
Yeah, of course.
And ran that for a coupleyears and it did really well.
And then the housing crashhappened and it started to not do
well.
So that basically we sold offthe code base and the assets to companies
in other categories.
And then Mark and I were like,okay, what do we do now?
(16:31):
And you know, sometimes peopleat that moment say, well, I'm going
to do some consulting for a while.
So I said, okay, let's just dosome consulting together and we'll
start a consulting firm andwe'll call it Thousand Watt Consulting.
And that's really how itstarted and what built the business
from there.
And the brand was really justwriting publicly.
(16:53):
And you know, we, we started ablog that was the early days of blogging
and we would write things thatother people wouldn't write, we would
say things that other peoplewouldn't say.
And we had a distinctive voiceand point of view and that proved
to be pretty magnetic for acertain number of people in the industry.
(17:16):
And that act of writing andjust sharing a point of view publicly
through the blog is what builtThousand Watt.
How long before you kind ofbecame known as the, I mean, Look,
I've seen 50, 60, 70 of yourpieces of art, I'll call them, which
is what you help a brokerage do.
(17:37):
How long did it take for youto get to that?
Not to the level you're attoday, but to go, oh, this is a path
I think we should be going down.
Yeah, I, we're an 18 yearovernight success, I guess.
Right.
There was nobody at the timereally thinking creatively or about
(18:00):
storytelling or brand buildingand real estate.
That territory remained unclaimed.
And so we went out and westaked that as our territory.
And over time we added peopleslowly and we got bigger and bigger
projects and clients andaccounts and we became known for
(18:22):
that.
And Mark's passion really isbranding, the thinking that goes
into that design.
And that became, I think, themost commonly known output of our
company.
But we have always also done alot that is less easy to see visually,
(18:45):
which is strategy, messagestrategy, positioning a company or
a product brand strategy,storytelling, all of those things.
And that really was my bailiwick.
And so Mark is very passionateabout visual design and brand building.
(19:09):
I really always gravitatedtowards messaging positioning the
strategy.
I would imagine, especiallysince this was kind of relatively
new in the world of we'll saybrokerage, that you had to convince
some people, like I'm going toinsert one of Jordan's questions
here because I think she's amazing.
And how do you cultivatebravery in clients who are used to
(19:32):
just kind of playing it safewith their brand?
I mean that's a, that had tobe a big problem early on or at least
an issue, I should say.
Well, it's become easier overtime because as I think our clients
courage to make changes ortake risks increases proportional
to our credibility.
(19:53):
So right, if, if, if, if aclient hires us to do some work and
they know that we have a trackrecord and a reputation and we're
not going to give them a bumsteer or run them off a cliff, right.
That enables them to take somerisks and to have a greater confidence.
And the other thing I wouldsay that is important to that is
(20:17):
process.
A tagline, an advertisingcampaign, messaging strategy.
You know, those things don'tcome out of thin air.
They're the output of a process.
And we become very good at theprocesses that lead to good outcomes.
And so if a client is takenthrough that process, the process
(20:40):
gives them the confidence andthe assurance that everything is
being thought through methodically.
And that's been very helpful.
You know, sometimes peoplelook at design work in particular
and they say, well, that'spretty, that that makes me feel good
or I don't like that.
And design really is not justabout making pretty things.
(21:03):
It is the culmination of anumber of deeply considered factors
and strategic decisions.
And when you take the clientthrough that process, they become
more confident.
When somebody approaches youand says we want to do something
different to the moment thatthey lay eyes on the first, you know,
(21:24):
the final iteration of whatyou're creating.
How long is that process?
Because I'm just guessing thisis not something that happens quickly.
No, it took a few monthsreally for everything that we have
come to know.
Certainly me and Mark andJessica on our team, who you've interviewed
(21:45):
viewed as well, who's I'veknown for over 20 years and has been
with thousand watt for over adozen years.
So we have tons of domain knowledge.
But we still have tounderstand what is true about the
client.
And that could be a brokerage,it could be a proptech company, it
could be a mortgage company.
We work with all builders.
(22:07):
We have to like really figureout what is uniquely true about that
company and that brand.
And so that still requireswhat we call discovery, which is
research.
And we talk to people, weinterview people, we workshop things.
And that's a big part of it.
(22:28):
We just don't shoot from the hip.
Yeah.
It's not like it's one ofthese four things because everyone
fits into these four things.
That's not the truth.
No, it's not.
And well, it's a good facet tothis Bill.
And with real estate brokeragein particular, for the most part,
they're not differentiatedwhat makes company X different from
(22:52):
company Y.
I don't know.
If you kind of squint, theysort of look the same.
So what we need to do is tofigure out, okay, well, what is beneath
the surface there that is truethat you can build something off
of, whether that's visual or verbal.
Yeah.
Brian, once again, anotherJordan insert.
Yeah.
What's the biggest myth inreal estate marketing today and what's
(23:16):
the truth behind it?
What is the big.
That's a really good question.
The biggest myth in realestate marketing today, I think want
to give you a thoughtfulanswer here.
The biggest myth in realestate marketing.
Well, I think there's amisunderstanding, I'll put it that
(23:37):
way.
There's a greatmisunderstanding between brand marketing
and direct response ortactical marketing.
And I think that the realestate industry, because the mentality
is so tied to sort of thisdeal to deal horizon, right?
You get one lead, you convertit, you do one closing, you move
(23:59):
on, right?
You have one quarter'sresults, then you're at the bottom
of the hill for the next quarter.
And we very much focus on thatwhich gets immediate engagement,
conversion attention.
And we do not build thestrategy that should sit beneath
(24:20):
and come before those things,if that makes sense.
So the misconception is thatattention for the sake of intention
is intrinsically good andeffective in real estate marketing.
I think we see a lot of that.
We wrote about that just theother day in our ghost newsletter
(24:41):
where, you know, wehighlighted this growing trend of
agents who are using humor anddancing and sometimes off color human
humor to gain attention intheir marketing.
And it works.
They get thousands andthousands of followers.
And whether or not thatproduces business or whether or not
(25:03):
that builds a brand over timeI think is an open question right
now.
So her, her final, her followup with the truth behind it is that
those things do work.
It's just they're not, they'renot building something that's going
to grow and grow and continueto become this brand that's going
to Be very, you know, important.
(25:25):
I mean, sometimes I use theanalogy of food analogy.
Right.
So like you can live off ofcandy bars and Red Bull for a period
of time and it will produce animmediate satisfaction or response
over time though it does notbuild a strong body or mind.
(25:50):
Right.
That's the equivalent ofattention grabbing, non strategic,
gratuitous shoot from the hip marketing.
Yeah, of course.
What you want to be doing isyou want to nourish your business
and brand, you know, with amore balanced diet that builds strength
and health and wellness over time.
(26:12):
Okay.
So that's how you buildendurance and longevity and health
and, and you know,understandably, most agents in particular,
you know, gravitate towardsthe, the quick, the quick hit.
I'll ask you a another Jordan question.
(26:33):
I love this question.
It's the first time I've everseen anything close to this.
But if you approach realestate marketing like an anthropologist,
right.
Studying a culture, are therepatterns or rituals you would say
that define today's agent or consumer?
And, and if so, are they evolving?
Are they evolving?
(26:56):
I think the state of theindustry is such that agents are
mostly stressed, anxious,confused, and they're looking for
guidance and they're lookingfor something to hang onto.
(27:17):
And I don't know what patternis emerging from that.
The pattern is stress.
It really is.
And for all the reasons thatyou know, Bill and all of your listeners
know, we have too few dealsand too many agents chasing them.
We have consolidation andhyper competition in the industry,
(27:39):
we have all kinds of fightingwithin the industry and then we have
this daily unfolding realityof AI.
And I think agents are justtrying to get their bearings right
now and trying to pay the bills.
It's hard to say what theemerging patterns are with agents,
(28:01):
with consumers, and we've donea lot of research with consumers
over the last four or five years.
Consumers are similarly confused.
And this is the paradox ofconsumer behavior.
Over the last 25 years we havemore and more information.
We have all the listings, wehave all the sale prices, we have
(28:21):
all the data in the palm ofour hand.
But yet most of us are stillcompletely lost when it comes time
to actually sell or buy a house.
And we thought many of us didthat the lawsuit settlements and
all that last year would sortof clarify things and consumers would
be more discerning and theywould know how their buyer agent
(28:43):
got paid and all that.
Like, you know, you can, youcan spend days on end on Redfin or
Zillow and look at all thecomps and those estimates and you
can use chat GPT to tell youhow to buy a house or, you know,
and it's funny how peoplestill arrive unprepared and needing
(29:04):
guidance when it comes time toactually move into real estate transaction
mode.
So I guess a lot less haschanged there with consumer behavior
than I think people sometimes think.
Yeah.
It hasn't been that solutionit was supposed to be, I think.
Yeah.
And an agent still on theirside of the thing still continue
(29:25):
to try to figure out theproper way to educate those consumers.
Yeah.
I have to talk about yoursummit, right?
Yeah.
This is pretty cool.
It's not really a typical realestate event.
I've been to many of them.
You've been to more.
Yeah.
But if there's one feeling ortakeaway that you purposely built
(29:49):
into the summit, right intothat, what would that be?
What's the entire experience about?
The entire experience about isabout delivering the signal through
the noise that exists in theindustry, particularly around marketing,
brand building, and givingpeople clarity around those things.
(30:14):
Because again, particularlywith the effects of AI, people don't
know what to do.
Right.
So how do I find the signalthrough all of the noise that surrounds
me?
Do this, do that, buy this,buy that.
Here's the script you need.
Here's the magic email to send.
Here's the application.
(30:35):
Here's what you should bedoing with AI.
AI is going to destroy your company.
AI is going to grow your company.
It's a lot of static andnoise, Bill.
And we created the event whichwe have, we are announcing, we're
renaming it Signal, called itthe Brand and Marketing Summit, but
we're renaming it Signal forthat reason.
(30:56):
And so we want people to feellike they can come here and get really
thoughtful discussion andstrategic thinking and creative thinking
that helps them build theirbrand and their business.
So that's the idea.
Yeah.
Where do you personally go toget re inspired creatively?
(31:16):
You know, like when you feellike you've hit a wall.
What.
What's Brian doing?
I read a lot of fiction.
I read a lot.
And is there a genre that yougravitate towards?
Well, you know, I like shortstories a lot.
Okay.
I read a lot of novels.
I read some history and biography.
(31:37):
But I have always found, youknow, your output, your output intellectually
and creatively is tightlycorrelated with the inputs you put
into your brain.
And when I'm stuck for anidea, that's what does it for me.
(31:58):
Bill.
Everybody's different.
I don't like business books.
I've read very few of them.
Most of them are overblownblog posts.
So, yeah, I read a lot of fiction.
Is there one you've readmultiple times?
Like, it just.
You keep coming back to itbecause of something that's happening
in that book.
I have one myself, but I'dlike to hear yours.
(32:20):
Yeah, I mean, look, I have myfavorite writers, though she was
known primarily for herjournalism and her nonfiction.
Joan Gideon is my favoritewriter, and she wrote a couple of
novels that I go back to againand again.
I probably read them everycouple of years, and I don't know.
(32:41):
I don't know why.
They just always leave me thinking.
The other novel that I reread,I reread this every couple of years,
too, is the Great Gatsby.
And of course, like most ofyour listeners, you read it in high
school or college.
You know, there's Tom andDaisy and Nick, and, you know, you
(33:01):
kind of get the idea, but Ijust never cease to find wonders
in the language and thewriting and insights about our American
culture by rereading that book.
So that sounds really nerdy,but that's what I do.
That's how I recharge mycreative battery.
(33:23):
I love that.
I would think.
But yeah, it probably,absolutely has helped you in your
business, you know?
Yeah.
Like, I mean, you can't.
You are not, probably notgoing to be successful as a strategist
or a creative.
If your intellectual diet isInstagram Reels and LinkedIn, it's
(33:49):
unlikely.
If it's SportsCenter, willthat work?
No.
Yeah.
Sports Center 100.
Totally.
Okay, good.
I mean, there's some great.
There's some great.
You know, there's.
There's great writing around sports.
Oh, my gosh.
Are you kidding me?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, my God.
Lots of great novels tiedaround sports stuff for sure, starting
(34:11):
with Field of Dreams, but I'llmove on.
Yeah.
Okay, here.
Well, I'm running out of yourtime, so I want to get you this last
question, but I've asked everyone.
Jay Thompson was my firstguest when I was going to do 10 episodes,
because I wanted to see what apodcast was all about in 2015.
Jade's such a great guy.
He is.
He's having the time of his life.
He's having too much fun.
What one piece of advice wouldyou give a new agent?
(34:33):
Just getting started in real estate.
You know, I would tell them to.
To be deliberately different.
And I know that's hard becauseI always say, this is a look around
business with agents.
(34:55):
You know, they look around andthey say, who's the big dog in my
office?
And I need to do what they'redoing or you know, this team is just
killing it doing X, Y or Z fortheir marketing.
So I got to do that.
You know, those are the thingsthat work for other people.
And so agents get sort ofjerked around and doing things that
(35:17):
other people do by lookingaround, which I understand because,
you know, as I said before,it's a scary and anxious time in
real estate.
I would say look really deeplyat what you can do best and what
you are prepared to do betterthan most other agents and then build
off of that and look aroundyou and then figure out how you can
(35:44):
do something different givenyour unique makeup, your point of
view, your personality.
So look inward, not around, Iguess would be my guidance.
Which is hard.
Yeah, it is.
But that's great advice, Ryan.
If somebody wants to reach outto you, what's the best way for them
to do that?
(36:05):
And also how do they get ahold of the dose?
Right.
What's the.
Yeah, because I'm.
Yeah, people can email me, Brian.
Net.
Best way to like get moreThousand Watt for free.
Yeah.
Is sign up for our weeklynewsletter, the Dose.
Just go to our website,thousand watt dot net.
You'll probably get a pop upor something to sign up.
Goes out every Tuesday morningand it's kind of a hit on hey, here's
(36:31):
what's going on in theindustry, but mostly just food for
creative and strategic thinking.
Yeah.
I'm like a raving fanboy of copywriters.
I think the ability to put pento paper, we'll go old school and
have people do things or reactor think another thought is unbelievable.
(36:58):
So I think it's great.
Yeah.
Talking to you and Mark andJessica especially.
It's just been fantastic.
Thank you so much for your time.
Yeah, it's been great.
And I'm always, always lookingforward to the next thing that Thousand
Watts is going to be talking about.
So thank you so much for yourtime today.
Oh, thank you, Bill.
It was a pleasure.
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