December 31, 2024 • 41 mins
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In this insightful episode, Jessica Good, LPC, EMDR Certified Therapist™, and mom of one, joins Reesa Morala, LMFT, to explore the journey of reparenting while raising a child. Jessica opens up about her recovery from an emotionally immature upbringing, sharing the grief, yearning, and determination to break generational cycles and create a healthier family dynamic.
As they discuss emotional healing, parenting strategies, and personal growth, Jessica also shares her recipe for Spicy Baked Goat Cheese Dip—a flavorful dish that’s sure to be a hit at family gatherings.
Subscribe, like, and follow for more authentic parenting stories, actionable tips, and mouthwatering recipes!
💬 What's been a parenting challenge you've faced? Share your story in the comments!
🧀 Tried the recipe? Let us know how it turned out!
Find Jessica at:
www.GoodEMDR.com
www.Tiktok.com/@jessicagoodlpc
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Spicy Baked Goat Cheese Dip
INGREDIENTS:
1 Baguette (French or Italian)
4 Tablespoons Olive Oil
2-3 garlic cloves
1 jar of Arrabiata sauce OR a jar of red pasta sauce and some red pepper flakes
1 goat cheese log (at least 4 oz), can be substituted for Boursin cheese if someone hates goat cheese
Fresh basil (optional)
INSTRUCTIONS:
- Preheat oven to 350 degrees
- Pour 4 tablespoons of olive oil into a small bowl
- Mince 2-3 cloves of garlic
- Add garlic to olive oil, stir it around, set to the side
- Brush 1/2 inch slices of bread with olive oil and garlic mixture. Toast in the oven until golden, approx 15 min.
- Turn oven up to 400 degrees
- Pour Arrabiata sauce or pasta sauce into the dish until there's approximately 1.5 - 2inches of sauce in the dish. (If using basic red pasta sauce, add red pepper flakes to taste. )
- Slice goat cheese into approximately 2 inch sections and place into the sauce. For Boursin cheese take 2 inch hunks and place them in the sauce.
- Bake at 400 degrees until the sauce is bubbling and the cheese is becoming gooey (approximately 15 - 20 minutes)
- Garnish the finished dip with the basil leaves and serve hot with the crostini.
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If you or your loved one is struggling with any of the topics discussed, here are some resources:
Embrace Renewal Therapy & Wellness Collective:
www.embracerenewaltherapy.com
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Disclaimer: The content provided on this podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does not co
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Host: Reesa Morala, MA, Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist. Reesa is a parenting specialist with a niche in supporting couples. Find Reesa hosting couples and parenting workshops nationwide!
Make sure to like, follow, and subscribe!
For the video version of this episode find us at: https://www.embracerenewaltherapy.com/
If you are a parent ready to share your real-life parenting struggle and dish up a recipe with Reesa, apply here:
https://www.embracerenewaltherapy.com/real-family-eats-guest
If you are experiencing a mental health crisis or need personalized support, please seek help from a licensed mental health professional. If you are in immediate danger or experiencing a crisis, contact emergency services or a crisis hotline in your area.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I had the belief that I wasinherently bad, that I was
(00:03):
inherently a monster,and that was really, really hard
to work through.
Hey everyone, thanks forjoining me.
My name is Reesa and I'myour host.
We are talking to real familiesabout real stories here on the
(00:27):
Real Family, where we'vegot food for thought
and thoughtful food.
So let's see, boy.
Hey, everyone.
So my guest today is thelovely Jessica.
Jessica, thank you so muchfor joining us today.
(00:50):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm excited to virtuallycook with you.
I'm a little disappointedto be here to eat you.
I know you're invited tohear this.
Well, for anybody who doesn'tknow you, could you introduce
yourself for us? Sure.
So I'm Jessica.
(01:10):
Good.
I'm an EMDR certified therapistand EMDR consultant in training
and also a parent.
So I have a toddler.
It has been exciting beinga parent, but there's also a
lot of stuff that comesup with me.
So, I have a background,my own trauma background, and a
lot of things with parentinghas, you know, it's brought
(01:32):
up different things that wereactivity or triggers for me.
There's just been a lotthat I've had to unpack from
my own process goingthrough this, which is ironic
because the work that I dois all in attachment,
developmental trauma, of course.
Right.
Like that's the joke.
If you want to know whata therapist is personally
dealt with, what's theirspecialty?
(01:53):
What do they do? Right?
Yeah.
That's what I'm hereto talk about.
Is parenting through your ownchildhood trauma.
How that what going forwardas a parent, how your
inner child maybe even feels?
Because you do a lot ofhard work and they do
a lot of hard work to be self.
And it's just somethingthat people are starting to talk
(02:14):
about more.
But I think that there'sa lot of shame that comes up
whenever we talk about it.
Absolutely.
And you're spot on.
And that's part of the driveand the motivation for me
even starting this whole passionproject, because you're
absolutely right.
And I'm so sick and tired of it,so sick and tired of the
the curtain that we putup trying to kind of
(02:34):
at the side.
Right.
Like you said, becauseoften times it is the trauma,
the shame, the embarrassment,the guilt.
That's another big onethat I hear a lot of.
And so I'm so excitedto hear about your story
and what you're willing to sharewith us today.
Before we get started, though,for anybody who does need your
services, this is our shamelessplug section.
(02:56):
So please plug away of all thewonderful things that you offer.
So I have a lot of differentworking components with my
business and everything,but I do have a private
practice, and I do Indianintensive therapy, so these are
longer sessions.
Sometimes people come visit mefrom out of town to do these.
And as I said, I'm an attachmentfocused India therapist.
So I help people inall the areas that they have
(03:19):
an attachment with incoming out.
So with their love and romanticrelationships, with their
relationships, with money,with their family dynamics,
all of those things.
So my private practice is anyoneis curious and wants to check it
out is good E and r.com.
And then if you guys justwant to learn about India,
I have a TikTok channel.
(03:39):
So it's just a good LPCand I'm there to share a lot
of information for folks,not only for the general public.
That doesn't know about you andyour therapy and everything
you can do with it, but also forprofessionals that have
been here recently trainedor maybe just don't feel quite
confident in their skills,I don't mind, I think now
it's every Thursday night,and I just love having
(04:01):
people come on and ask questionsand just give a lot of
psychoeducation and helppeople get their therapeutic
experiences.
Wonderful.
And so for your direct services,as an EMT, your therapist,
what state are you in?
So people now kind of whereare your license and who can
get your services?
Yeah, that's a great questionand something I probably
(04:23):
should have said before.
I'm physically licensed orlike my physical office
location is in state Louis,Missouri, so I'm licensed
to practice virtually throughoutMissouri and also Florida.
I am an LPC.
So as the company goes into enactment, I believe it's
the state early 2045 andthey're offering to more states.
(04:43):
But that's dependent.
I'm pretty you know, I getbooked out, through decently
already.
So I don't know if I want to addall these different states
and then not be ableto help people miss this.
And so we'll see.
We'll see where that's at.
But right now it's just therein Florida.
Wonderful.
And all of those linkswill be down in our show
notes as usual.
So tell me, I'm so curiousabout this recipe.
(05:06):
What recipe are you sharingwith us today and why did you
pick this one?
So originally I was going to domy grandmother's chicken and
dumplings recipe, and thenI'm like, you would have to do a
full chicken and do all of that.
And like you would takewith you, one would take
hours of work.
Now am I doing that to you?
It's yummy.
(05:26):
But like, now we're good.
So I picked one that is afavorite of mine and a favorite
of others.
Whenever we have any sort ofget together.
I think making this recipe sincemy mid 20s, I think maybe
even earlier than that.
So it was like undergrador grad school, I think
was undergrad actually.
There's all types placesI loved it.
(05:48):
I was a real collegestudent there.
And as we are there, right,I can go there all the time.
So I was eating this dishand it's a spicy baked
goat cheese.
That.
And I was like, you know what?
I think I could make somethinglike this.
I think I could do this.
So I started making it at home,and then I just bring it to all
these little get togethersup ahead, a girls night
(06:10):
or something like thatgame night.
And it was so simple and easy.
And I think that that's reallyimportant.
Whereas experience is to havesomething simple and easy.
But also like my my toddleris eating this,
the little sister, youcould make it without spice.
They just doing the regularthing.
You know, I feel likefor parents, we still need
(06:30):
to have those momentswhere we're having our little
get togethers, we're doingour little thing, even if
we can't be both parents,and maybe one's watching
our child or children.
And you need to be fast.
Something that you canquickly do that you can
bring together that feelskind of like, oh, this actually
feels kind of nice, right?
Like so, Yeah, exactly.
(06:52):
Exactly a little treat.
It doesn't take a lot out of usbecause we have we like so much
going on right.
And I love that.
And you're absolutely right.
And I love the ideaof really kind of something
to also pour back into yourself,it sounds like, and being able
to kind of still fillyour cup in those ways
is something yummy and warm.
(07:13):
So I'm so excited.
Okay, so tell me what the stepsare to this recipe.
I'll get cooking while we chat alittle bit about your journey.
Okay, so first off you're goingto want to preheat your oven
to 350 oh okay.
And so after you we hit that offand we're going to start on the
the bread the crispy.
So okay I don't knowif you got the like the
(07:36):
Italian loaf or the, the Frenchfry guide.
Did you go like that.
Yeah I did French baguette.
And I've got them right here.
Okay. Perfect.
Oh, you already have a slice.
Perfect.
So you're going to have the ovenyou're going to have for some
olive oil I think with aboutfour tablespoons inside into a
little dish.
(07:56):
You're going to mix upsome garlic or you can do
the can kind.
This recipe I made it for five.
You know whatever yougot going on you can do.
So if you want to make it morecomplicated, you can.
If you don't make it super easyon yourself, whatever you
got hand.
So you're just going to pourthe minced garlic, you know,
2 to 3 cloves into that.
I will let it sit.
(08:18):
Line baking sheet with someparchment paper.
It is very easy cleanup.
You can put your bread on therebrushing it with that
garlic mixture.
Put that into the oven.
I think it's about 15 minutes.
It'll be in there, but you cancheck it, make sure that it's
appropriate for whatevertype of bread you died.
And then after that is done,you just set that to the side
(08:41):
as well.
And then we'll take that ovenactually up to about
400 degrees.
Yeah. Okay.
The recipe very super simple.
So if you have a spicy red sauceand with an out of
the other side, then you canjust pour that in there.
If you don't have that on handor it's not at your local market
(09:01):
or whatever, just take someof this off and some red pepper
flakes from your cabinetif you want to get ready.
I think a little highertemperature for your heat level
depends on your heat levelthat you like.
I like even bowl back noodles.
I like a little heat.
So you just sprinkle thatin there.
You need to accept that you'regoing to have about like an inch
(09:22):
and a half, two inches,pasta sauce, one of a kind of
smaller dish.
I always use, like my smaller,CorningWare little
casserole dish.
And, then you'll just takethe cheese.
Or if you're not a good cheese,and then cheese works
really well.
And you just put that in thereabout, two inches,
(09:43):
actual cheese, either a big hunkmore than or about two inches
if you're doing it like,and you'll put like two or
however many you end up doing.
I'm not going to hold anyoneback on the goat cheese.
I decide to use those.
I love it, yes.
Yeah.
And then you'll just popthat in the oven and it cooks,
you know, not that long.
(10:04):
Like ten, 15 minutes, somethinglike that.
And I'll be bubblyand the cheese will start
to get kind of, like, gooey,and easily like, it'll spread
really easily and then usethat oven and just slice up
some basil if you likefresh basil, if you don't
have to put it on there and youjust sprinkle that over the top
and then dip some bread in thereand you're good to go.
(10:26):
Perfect.
Well, I can do all of that.
Like you said, sounds prettystraightforward.
So I'll get things going.
And while I do that, I'd love tohear more.
I know you kind of gaveus a sneak peek as far as
some of your journey kind ofhaving to do with figuring out
how to move forwardin parenting, kind of with
your own bag, you know, trauma,like you said that you're
(10:49):
carrying with you and how todo that.
And so I'd love for youto kind of walk us through a
little bit of some of thatjourney for you that you've
experienced and kind ofhow you've navigated that,
because that's really tough.
And I think that's somethingthat many of us parents
absolutely can relate to.
Oh, yeah.
And, certainly interesting.
(11:10):
So I am obviously not firstgeneration, something like that.
Experienced trauma typicallythat goes down the lines.
We have generational traumaand my mom plays. Yeah.
She had a heavy amount of traumathat she went through.
My dad had more like anarcissistic narcissistic
family system.
(11:31):
Right. Okay.
So unfortunately that led tomy dad being that way as well.
And they grew up old school,so that's of physical
punishment, that kind of sorry.
I'm not it.
My dad.
Yeah.
My dad was very emotionally andverbally abusive.
So that wasn't great, right?
(11:53):
Not.
It doesn't really.
I look at what I'veaccomplished, what I've been
able to do, and it's actuallyreally surprising given the
kind of, negative encouragementthat I got as a child.
Yeah.
Can you say more about that?
Like what?
What would that look like?
So, I'm I'm nervous.
(12:14):
I have ADHD, but I alsogiftedness.
I don't think the term I wishwas different.
That means that I have ahigh IQ, among other things.
Right?
So my, one of my dad's go tothings that he would say, like,
he would always be like,are you stupid?
Are you that flair that wedon't use that we don't?
(12:36):
Yeah.
Because that's really horrible.
Those sorts of things.
So that was that negative,encouragement, if you will.
And I gonna show becauseobviously I'm, I'm joking
about that, little darkhumor there.
Yeah. But yeah.
So he would say things like thatand there are like a lot
of expectations on methat I need to just succeed
(12:58):
no matter what.
So my, my family, I thinkthat we help with education
things.
And it was a whole thing.
It was it was not great.
I didn't have a lot of reallygood ideas about myself,
and I thought that I wasa pretty terrible person.
Whenever I would do differentthings and have accomplishments,
(13:21):
it'd be really hard for meto take those, take those in
and really feel pride.
There were.
Yeah, there were a lotof negative things
that I thought about myself.
And I think one of thebiggest things that bring up
is really the volatilityin the house.
So my mom left her.
She has done a lot of work.
My dad is no longer with us.
(13:42):
She actually passed me last,a few years.
That, but my mom has triedconsistently, as I become
an adult, and as she'sreally taken notice of these
different things and honoredmy experience and what I find,
she has taken a lot ofaccountability and has continued
to try to improve herself,which I do appreciate.
(14:03):
My dad was just never going tobe there.
He passed.
Yeah, the same way whenever,whenever he passed, he was
the same way whenever he wasalive.
He never had that closureor that repair that happened,
unfortunately.
And that's another thing wehave to deal with too,
as humans too, is thatcomplicated grief?
(14:25):
If you don't deal withthose things when
somebody is aliveand you have to deal with it
whenever they're gone, too.
So, one of the things thathappened in my house growing up
is the emotional volatilityof my dad had a bad day.
He would come home and screamat us, right?
It was the, the dads walking upto the house.
(14:46):
You better scary.
And I think you're busyand you're not, like, resting on
the couch or whatever.
Like, you either need to be busyor out of sight, to protect
yourself, right?
That's the message that you'regoing to you an hour late
from the day, like we.
We were his emotional or not, ina fun way.
So that was that was terrible.
(15:07):
The not being able to makemistakes.
So as a small child, you breaks,you mess things up like
that happens.
It's a part of learning.
It's a part of development.
And so that really wasn'tokay because we would get
through that in our house.
We can't physically punish him.
So all of those things,even though I don't, I don't
(15:31):
consciously I'm not like, oh,yeah, that's that's what
you should do or whatever.
There is definitely a partof all of us that have
experienced that childhoodthat still has that reactivity,
and we really have to workthrough that.
So yeah, my my journeyinto parenthood actually
happened after my dadhad passed.
So I had all that reallycomplicated grief.
(15:52):
Right.
You know, difficult.
And then later on pregnancy,like you said, parenthood.
I mean, that's that's a wholewhole thing.
Yeah. Yeah.
So been basically it's it's beenso interesting as my child
is developing because my child'sa toddler.
So they're, they're growingand new things are coming up
(16:15):
as they start.
You're testing the limitsand everything, and it's
kind of like, look at youas they're doing something.
You're like, oh, you areboundary testing right now,
aren't you?
That's what's happening.
Yeah, I'm seeing to seethe differences not only in
how I'm responding to them,which is really heartwarming.
And then also, really sad at thesame time because there's that,
(16:41):
that small part of methat wishes that I
would have had that youngerpart of me that wishes I would
have had that kind of responseto that kind of just really
compassionate, empatheticresponse.
So it's been a journey,and I know it's going to
continue evolving. Yeah.
And like you mentioned, kind ofa little bit of that,
that grief, like you said of,hey, I'm able to do these
(17:04):
things, I'm able to offer thesecompassionate responses
as a parent and then tryingto make sense.
Why why couldn't I getthe same thing as a child?
Like what?
What was the barrierthere for me being able
to receive these same thingsthat, hey, I'm a parent
right now and I'm offering tothis little human also.
(17:26):
Oh yeah.
And most of us just internalizethat and like, I wasn't
this enough, I wasn't that I wasdifferent.
And that's where we cometo that sense.
And really deep internalshame of I am bad
because there's thissense of like, if I was
better than my parentswould love me the way that I.
And when that doesn't occur,young kids, like, we're
(17:47):
very focused on ourselvesand we're we're very young
because that's where our braindevelopment is completely
developmentally appropriate.
But then after those typesof negative beliefs, and I had
the belief that I was inherentlybad, that I was inherently
a monster, and that was really,really hard to work through.
So as a parent now,being able to have pride in how
(18:07):
I am parenting my child is huge.
But it's also like,I think I just like whenever
I was, I, I had one ofthe three years and experiences
that I had that I had done,on my own personal therapy.
Okay, I'm pretty sure.
But I also get your time.
(18:28):
And yes, it is safe duringpregnancy if you have trauma
in your past and you needto process that out to be like,
feel better, have lessinformation, have less
activation, it's completelysafe and normal to do.
But I was doing an entiresession with some
parts where you this youngerchild, part of me was
(18:48):
jealous of my, my inner well, mymy fetus.
I guess at that point in time,because I was still adjusting
my child.
But the gender part of me was,was jealous of my baby because
I was going to get to experiencethat experience, that parenting
(19:09):
that I never had to receive.
And it's like it's makeme terrified not
thinking about it becausethat's it's such a want,
and it's younger and it'san emptiness and it's
something that unfortunately fora lot of folks, if they didn't
experience it now,then as adults, they're
parenting themselves,their parents and their children
(19:29):
and parenting their parents.
So in some ways to you and it'slike, oh, I never get that video
with that.
I will never get that.
Yeah.
And like you said, the griefthat kind of is attached
to that, is very real.
And I know that I spoke in,in fact, another parent
who, who's was willing to bea guest on it talked just about
(19:53):
so much that there'sso many periods of parenthood
that have grief that we don'tnecessarily realize are there
until, like you said, we'rekind of experiencing that.
And, you know, maybe we dohave the support of, you know, a
clinician or something kind ofhelping us.
Really understand kind of wheresome of those, those feelings
and thoughts are coming frombecause, as you said, it's
(20:15):
there's a lot going on there.
And you know, I wanted tocircle back.
I heard you mentioned kind ofthat idea of parenting yourself.
And can you say more about that?
Because I know that that'ssomething, you know, in the
clinician world, we sayquite a bit, but not everybody
kind of understands what whatdo we actually mean when we say
something like that?
And what does that look like?
(20:37):
So because I do parts workand people might, recognize
like ISIS or maybe the term egofor that.
Those are both underthe umbrella of hearts work.
Is that what we're looking at?
Are those different little bitsof yourself that are stuck
in these different distressingtimes.
So we'll say, like, you know,if you've heard of the term
inner child healing, right?
(20:57):
So that reparative is startingto work with our internal
system, to work with the partsof ourselves that pop up.
So sometimes you may belike, oh, wow, I just got
really upset about that.
And I threw the toddler tantrum.
But I'm an adult.
Well, it's probably a very youngpart of yourself that's
actually been quite activatedby that.
(21:19):
So how do you start to form thatrelationship with yourself?
How do you start to meetthose parts of yourself?
In a way that shows curiosityand compassion very much
what you needed at that pointin time.
So whenever I'm talking aboutrepeating myself as I'm noticing
something coming up in myself,some sort of activation,
(21:41):
I get curious about it,and then I try to meet that need
for maybe the need that I haveat a certain point, times
like I need comfort orI need to feel safe or I need
connection, or maybe whateverit is for that individual part
of myself, I'm able tocome in and meet that need.
So that's what I mean by repairroutine is actually showing up
(22:04):
for myself in the waythat I need it whenever
I was young.
Yeah.
And I absolutely love that.
And I'd love to know kind ofa little bit more in
your journey, howhow did you work through
that even just like, let's talkabout that pregnancy piece
and you recognizingkind of that, that jealousy
piece of you and kind of how,how do you manage through
(22:28):
something like that where youcan be able to kind of start
to move forward versusgetting stuck in it?
Yeah.
So with that, I hadto acknowledge the grief, right?
That was that one, that desireand that I will not have then,
that I can't do that fullyfor myself and that my child's
(22:50):
experience is not my experience.
I think that is one of thehardest things to do
whenever we're parenting,having had our own childhood
trauma and our own maybeemotionally neglectful parenting
situations is how can Ilet my child have their
own experience without me?
Like curiously livingthrough them to feel like
all these things that I wanted,right?
(23:12):
Yeah, yeah.
I think that separation is firstand foremost is, you know, it's
their their own person.
I am my own person.
And we have to have thatseparation.
So acknowledging that what iscoming up for me,
what I'm feeling is a meetingand not a damn thing.
So having that separation firstis the most important.
(23:35):
And then how can I attendto my needs either in
that moment or like if I'min parenting at that moment,
like, how can I pull that,compartmentalize it, put in
a container, tell myselflike, hey, this is
important work coming backto it, but we're going to put
we're going to come back to itwhenever they're napping
or they've gone to bedfor the night, or we get a break
and we can do that.
We can like ask the otherparent or, you know, time,
(23:58):
a timeout that we needor something.
But yeah, that separation firstand then meeting what
that need is and sometimesit's just having that expression
of emotion.
So allowing myself to grieve,allowing myself to grieve
that I didn't have thatexperience and noticing
the beauty of my childhaving that experience, but that
(24:19):
I don't need to cling onto their their experience.
That's an absolute that. Yeah.
And that's so beautiful.
And I do want to kind ofhighlight that, that piece
that you mentioned, that littlenugget of, that I think so
many parents do kind ofstruggle and with in the
sense of, not vicariouslyliving through them, not,
(24:43):
you know, really kindof making it a them problem.
When really if we wereto get honest with ourselves,
it's a, it's an US problemas the adult in the room
and that's such a difficultbalance to navigate.
And so to kind of reallyhighlight that that absolutely
so many times it can bethe easy route, if you will,
(25:06):
to kind of be like, oh, whatdo you feel like, like you said,
your kid, it's something thatyou did from like with
this all could have been avoidedif you would just been better
and to kind of be able to,to step back and say, well,
hang on a second.
Like, let's be realisticabout the fact that we're
talking to a child who doesn'thave, you know, kind of all
the capacities, and they havetheir bad days to, yet they have
(25:30):
a lot less time to mature,a lot less time to be able
to build some of these skills,to regulate, in a way that we
would want them to.
And yes, we can work up to that,but it's not something
that they're inherently bornwith.
And so, you know, offeringsome of that compassion
and grace to them, toabsolutely like that is never
(25:53):
so I also run a group,of course, for therapy for adult
children and emotionallyimmature parents that are their
no contact with their parents.
One when I need to change myI mean, the fact that I'm like,
how do we encompass it all?
But one of the things thatwe were talking about,
I think, in the groupthe other day, was that idea of,
in emotionally immaturefamily systems where you have
(26:16):
a lot of emotional reactivity.
And by the way, anyone listeningto this, if you had emotionally
mature parents, congratulations.
You were also emotionallyimmature.
Until we work on those thingsand we we feel that sense of
emotional maturity.
And that's because we only havethe tools that we're given
so very much.
Those children were born withtools.
They have to learn.
Those tools.
(26:36):
Your parents are caregiversare primary caregivers are
the people they help youthe most.
That this is hopefullyalso in school and education,
all that the like.
The more fostering of us that wecan get around it, the better.
But we were talking todayabout how, it feels like in
those families that you'rejust supposed to know
(26:57):
everything, like, oh,you don't know how to do that.
Like how the attention to how todo that.
Right? Right.
No one taught you.
So. Yeah. Yeah.
How are you supposedto know that?
But there isn't thatthat reflection from those
parents or caregivers.
So everything even the verytrying things that my child
is like that boundary testing.
(27:20):
I'm talking I'm thinkingabout them last night
just staring point blankin the eyes.
And just like as they do,they're like, yeah,
they're waiting for me to, like,stop and say, no, you can't
do that.
You know, because we'reat the point where we have
to say no.
Sometimes we're safety and likewhat they were doing was fine
because I knew they thinkthey knew how to get down from
the furniture item they were on.
(27:42):
I think, oh, gosh, sorry.
I was talking about that.
And then I forgot whereI was going with I.
Yeah, you were, you were talkingabout that whole the whole idea
again, going back to giving thatthen that compassion
and that grace, you know.
Yeah. Yeah.
Developmentally appropriate.
So I mean, there's nothing likethe throwing phase and the
(28:05):
noun phase and theeverything else like that phase.
I just like give myself a littlefeedback, take a breath
and remind myself it'sdevelopmentally appropriate.
It's developmentallyappropriate.
And that's what I just sayto myself over and over again,
like, and then we can proceedfrom there.
Just a little reality check isdevelopmentally appropriate.
(28:25):
This is what's happening.
That's their phaseof development.
It's okay.
I think it's absolutely.
And I'll just it's littleadd piece to that,
that it's also okay to be likeand it really sucks.
It's developmentally appropriateand it really sucks. Okay.
Now what are we gonna do.
Because that's very early,even though it is
developmentally appropriate,it doesn't mean that it's easy
(28:48):
or that like you said, thatwe've been given a manual.
They don't pop outas much as wish they did, with
an instruction manual on youryour child specifically.
They don't.
And so being ableto also kind of it's okay
to say like this sucks.
This is really hard.
Absolutely.
(29:09):
And that's whenever you makethis step and you
go over to your friends, right.
This small time here.
Yeah, yeah.
I was together for herbreak some.
Absolutely.
And I'm so curious, like,as you're going through
this journey, like,it sounds like there's been
very moments where, like yousaid, you've you've had
(29:31):
to sit back and kind of evaluatewhat's coming up for you.
Have there been any, like,moments for you that really
helped you move from that place?
I feel like I hear parentswhere we can kind of go 1
or 2 of two ways of saying,well, this is all I know, and so
how can I know anything elseto say?
(29:53):
Yes, this is all like,no, I'd like to do something
different, which it sounds likeyou kind of chose that
for yourself.
Like was there an moment for youthat kind of really set
you on that that journeyof deciding, like, I'm not going
to parent the same wayas my parents.
Yeah.
Making that became adecision. Yeah.
(30:15):
Where I became a parent.
That was before I even decidedon my myself, before I even met
my husband.
Like, I knew that if I did,because there was a
period of time whereI thought that maybe I didn't
actually want to have kids,there was a good portion,
probably the secondhalf of my 20s, going into my
(30:36):
into 30s, and I was like,rolling that out again.
Right?
And then I got around 30 as,as some people do,
not all people, becauseI think being childfree
is a completely valid choice.
And I was like, and with mydad's like in passing
everything, it really makesyou think about life
and mortality and everything.
(30:57):
And I was like, you know whatI do?
I do want to have a childin this one.
We'll see what happens.
Over here, with all thecontroversial choices I had
being childfree at first,I was like, oh, I'll just
have one kid.
And I'm like, do you wantanother?
And we'll see what happens?
But yeah, so going into that,I even whenever I was childfree,
(31:18):
I knew that if I ever didhave a child, one day I, I,
I would not parentin the same way that that
was not the, the path I wasgoing down.
And so for me, looking fora partner, looking for a spouse,
whenever I decide like,these are some different things
that I wanted for my life,that was really important is
(31:38):
how are they going to bewith a child?
Like, how is their reactivity?
What does that look like?
So I went in very eyes opento the whole parenting thing
whenever it comes to mental,emotional type of stuff in that.
So even being a therapist,even being somebody that I think
prepared as much as onecan prepare, it doesn't mean
(32:02):
that you're immune to everythingthese things happen.
Yes.
I think some, moments for me,some moments were really
hard and difficult.
So, even with preparation,right, is I have misophonia, so
loud sounds and specific ones,like crying and really loud.
(32:24):
I stop barking in the same wayI, it makes me.
And it's not like anger towardsother people, but it makes
me feel like I just want to takemy own head and bash
it into a wall.
Like that's how badthe sounds are with nurses
on the air.
So having an infantthat is crying is difficult.
(32:44):
So one of the momsthat I'm like, oh my gosh,
am I not going to be ableto have this?
Whatever.
Then I found out that youjust can't, like, noise
dampening headphones.
They're not headphones that,earplugs in.
That's a lie with the sound likeit takes the edge off.
That's not like reading for you,because I just like this really
(33:05):
ridiculous amount of,like, internal.
And it's not towardsother people.
Again, like, never was my childor my spouse or even like that.
I mean situation but it's liketowards yourself.
It's like this really weird.
Like just make it like thissounds like myself.
Yeah.
So the the earplugs werereally great.
And that was a moment ofall right, like, how can I think
(33:26):
I'm a great problem solvers?
I've really leaned into thatin parenting and then some of
those moments, like as my child30 years older and again,
founder, testing allthose things that kind of like
really get under your skin.
Not only is there I believein seeing this developmentally
appropriate, but there's alsoI just started channeling
like this, this feeling of,I could use my breathing
(33:49):
and, like, send my breath downand, like, imagine, like
I'm with a tree. Like,I can just like reading
my body. Yes.
Love that.
Background is really grounding.
But just imagine mereally solid, like a tree.
And just like anything that's,you know, they're crying
and their fussiness and allthe things, right?
(34:11):
And it's just like waves washingover you.
So I'm actually able to, like,really be pretty present
and centered in those momentswith my toddlers having those
other meltdowns, like being ableto be there for them.
Like, not like overreact or likelock my child in a room
(34:32):
or make them or anything elselike that, which is what would
have happened in my housegrowing up.
So those are momentslike those were hard moments,
but they're also big momentsof pride because I was able to
work through that.
So the data has a wow, I guessI could have gone a different
way.
But also whenever I think aboutsomebody's going into
(34:52):
a different way than that,I'm like, oh, that's
heartbreaking.
Like, how could we be like,how did that happen?
Like, how did my parentsjust see me crying?
We're just like, oh, we're gonnathank you now, right?
Yeah.
We'll give you something tocry about.
Really?
Absolutely amazing.
Like you said, just also maybebeing able to have that,
(35:15):
that couple seconds of like,look what I did even we're
so good at being really criticalof ourselves and all
the things that we're not doingor could do better.
What I really loved about whatyou said of being able to to
sit back and for, like I said,just a couple seconds.
We're not asking for anythingbig of just giving yourself that
kudos of like, oh, lookwhich way.
(35:36):
I mean, like, I'm I'm proudof that.
That's really cool.
Me yeah, I think that one of themy favorite things is actually
a little bit too, is whenevermy husband reflects what
a good parent I am to me,because there's, again, whenever
we have those reallyemotionally, verbally abusive
(36:00):
childhoods where you're not ableto build a sense of pride
in yourself that like, you canyou can like really be like,
oh yeah, I did this.
Like, this was hard.
And so my husband reflectingback, like, you're a really good
mom, like, you do this and thesedifferent things, and I
get to like, because I know it.
I don't get to, like,have pride.
(36:22):
And it's like this weirdresidual thing from childhood,
right.
And so whenever somebody elseis reflecting that to me,
and I know that he really meansthat, it's just like it's like,
with my child being 31 day,I feel like, yeah, this,
this feeling, as they, as theyget older, let's let's see.
(36:45):
I think they're pretty sureI believe that we can,
like you said, it may takesome work and may take a
stepping back.
And, like you said, problemsolving.
I think that's just it.
It's finding that motivation,and making that choice
to, to try something differentthan what, you know, and,
and deciding, you know,I'm not just going to
(37:07):
rest on that.
And so I think that's that'shuge.
And gosh, I love hearingthat for you because I want that
for all my, all my parentsis to be able to hear that and
and have us championingeach other, in this thing
that's so, so hard to do and soawesome.
(37:28):
You know, as we getget moving here and closing
things, I'd really love to know,are there any like, resources or
anything that you foundkind of along your journey
that maybe any of our listenerswho are kind of working through
their own stuff might go, okay,let me let me check this out.
Oh, yeah.
There's so many good booksand then a few of them.
(37:52):
So the includes, parenting fromthe inside out, I think
is so good because that's likerepairing teamwork.
Good inside.
I think that's not too bad.
Is that thing in other namesis I'm having a messy.
But the inside is really greatand lovely.
And it comes from that,just very attachment focused,
very, like, shame reductiontype of parenting, which is
(38:15):
awesome. Yes.
Already available, have reallywonderful in life.
And then there's this one calledRaising Good Humans.
And that's about decreasingour reactivity as parents,
which is very importantas anything I've said here has.
(38:35):
I was the other very probablythe other is for you guys.
I'm so good ones that there'sthere's a lot out there.
And once you start like,you know, shopping around
for those, that's going togive you other ideas
for other books that aresimilar to the huge
audiobook fan, because you can.
I just happen to haveheadphones.
I listen to them while you'rearound the house, where I get
most of my reading donewhile driving, so I do Audible
(38:58):
or Spotify and and soI get a lot of that done.
And it it helps to have thatbecause not only is hey, here's
information, here'spsychoeducation, but here's
the feeling of, oh, I'mnot the only person that is
needed this.
And that was really real for me.
Like, oh, there's a lotof people that actually have me
in this, much so they wrotea book like they wrote
(39:21):
a bestseller about this.
So I'm not alone.
Absolutely.
I love that.
And thank you so much for beingwilling to share that.
And I'm sure the rest of youhave got everything ready.
I'll just pop it in the oven.
I'm so excited to taste.
So thank you for sharingthe recipe with me.
(39:41):
With our listeners as well.
And I really do want tothank you about being willing
to share this part ofyour story.
As you know, I kind of saidat the beginning,
I think there's there's so muchof that that's facade.
And, yeah, we're trying tokind of keep up with the
Joneses. Right.
And so being ableto kind of pull that
(40:03):
curtain back with me,I thank you so much for
for normalizing that thisis indeed hard, especially,
like you said, when you'recoming from your your own trauma
background and being ableto kind of choose something
different because it'sthat's not easy now.
And it definitely isn't anautomatic choice for a lot of
folks.
Like, there's so many greatthings that we are fighting
(40:26):
against us.
And it's it's a journey.
It's a that's for sure.
Really.
Well, it sounds good.
Thank you so muchfor taking time out of your day
to chat with me, and I reallyappreciate it.
And I'm sure I'll have totap you again and say, come and
talk about it.
I'm sure we could talk for days.
(40:47):
Of all the difficultiesof parenting.
And then here.
Yeah.
Well, thank you everyone forjoining us.
We'll see you next time.
If you or anyone that you knowis struggling with any of
the topics that we discussed intoday's episode, make sure
to check out our show notesfor support and resources.
(41:10):
You can get help.
Thanks again for joining uson today's episode of The
Real Family.
Eat.
If you're a parent readyto share your real life
parenting story, make sure toreach out to us and our website
found in the show notes.
And that goes for today's recipesocial media's support
and resources.
All of that can be foundin our show notes,
(41:32):
so make sure to check them outand make sure to follow, like,
share, subscribe, and stayup to date on all things
the real Family.
I hope you'll join us next timefor more food for thought
and thoughtful food! Enjoyyour eats!
I had the belief that I wasinherently bad, that I was
(00:03):
inherently a monster,and that was really, really hard
to work through.
Hey everyone, thanks forjoining me.
My name is Reesa and I'myour host.
We are talking to real familiesabout real stories here on the
(00:27):
Real Family, where we'vegot food for thought
and thoughtful food.
So let's see, boy.
Hey, everyone.
So my guest today is thelovely Jessica.
Jessica, thank you so muchfor joining us today.
(00:50):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm excited to virtuallycook with you.
I'm a little disappointedto be here to eat you.
I know you're invited tohear this.
Well, for anybody who doesn'tknow you, could you introduce
yourself for us? Sure.
So I'm Jessica.
(01:10):
Good.
I'm an EMDR certified therapistand EMDR consultant in training
and also a parent.
So I have a toddler.
It has been exciting beinga parent, but there's also a
lot of stuff that comesup with me.
So, I have a background,my own trauma background, and a
lot of things with parentinghas, you know, it's brought
(01:32):
up different things that wereactivity or triggers for me.
There's just been a lotthat I've had to unpack from
my own process goingthrough this, which is ironic
because the work that I dois all in attachment,
developmental trauma, of course.
Right.
Like that's the joke.
If you want to know whata therapist is personally
dealt with, what's theirspecialty?
(01:53):
What do they do? Right?
Yeah.
That's what I'm hereto talk about.
Is parenting through your ownchildhood trauma.
How that what going forwardas a parent, how your
inner child maybe even feels?
Because you do a lot ofhard work and they do
a lot of hard work to be self.
And it's just somethingthat people are starting to talk
(02:14):
about more.
But I think that there'sa lot of shame that comes up
whenever we talk about it.
Absolutely.
And you're spot on.
And that's part of the driveand the motivation for me
even starting this whole passionproject, because you're
absolutely right.
And I'm so sick and tired of it,so sick and tired of the
the curtain that we putup trying to kind of
(02:34):
at the side.
Right.
Like you said, becauseoften times it is the trauma,
the shame, the embarrassment,the guilt.
That's another big onethat I hear a lot of.
And so I'm so excitedto hear about your story
and what you're willing to sharewith us today.
Before we get started, though,for anybody who does need your
services, this is our shamelessplug section.
(02:56):
So please plug away of all thewonderful things that you offer.
So I have a lot of differentworking components with my
business and everything,but I do have a private
practice, and I do Indianintensive therapy, so these are
longer sessions.
Sometimes people come visit mefrom out of town to do these.
And as I said, I'm an attachmentfocused India therapist.
So I help people inall the areas that they have
(03:19):
an attachment with incoming out.
So with their love and romanticrelationships, with their
relationships, with money,with their family dynamics,
all of those things.
So my private practice is anyoneis curious and wants to check it
out is good E and r.com.
And then if you guys justwant to learn about India,
I have a TikTok channel.
(03:39):
So it's just a good LPCand I'm there to share a lot
of information for folks,not only for the general public.
That doesn't know about you andyour therapy and everything
you can do with it, but also forprofessionals that have
been here recently trainedor maybe just don't feel quite
confident in their skills,I don't mind, I think now
it's every Thursday night,and I just love having
(04:01):
people come on and ask questionsand just give a lot of
psychoeducation and helppeople get their therapeutic
experiences.
Wonderful.
And so for your direct services,as an EMT, your therapist,
what state are you in?
So people now kind of whereare your license and who can
get your services?
Yeah, that's a great questionand something I probably
(04:23):
should have said before.
I'm physically licensed orlike my physical office
location is in state Louis,Missouri, so I'm licensed
to practice virtually throughoutMissouri and also Florida.
I am an LPC.
So as the company goes into enactment, I believe it's
the state early 2045 andthey're offering to more states.
(04:43):
But that's dependent.
I'm pretty you know, I getbooked out, through decently
already.
So I don't know if I want to addall these different states
and then not be ableto help people miss this.
And so we'll see.
We'll see where that's at.
But right now it's just therein Florida.
Wonderful.
And all of those linkswill be down in our show
notes as usual.
So tell me, I'm so curiousabout this recipe.
(05:06):
What recipe are you sharingwith us today and why did you
pick this one?
So originally I was going to domy grandmother's chicken and
dumplings recipe, and thenI'm like, you would have to do a
full chicken and do all of that.
And like you would takewith you, one would take
hours of work.
Now am I doing that to you?
It's yummy.
(05:26):
But like, now we're good.
So I picked one that is afavorite of mine and a favorite
of others.
Whenever we have any sort ofget together.
I think making this recipe sincemy mid 20s, I think maybe
even earlier than that.
So it was like undergrador grad school, I think
was undergrad actually.
There's all types placesI loved it.
(05:48):
I was a real collegestudent there.
And as we are there, right,I can go there all the time.
So I was eating this dishand it's a spicy baked
goat cheese.
That.
And I was like, you know what?
I think I could make somethinglike this.
I think I could do this.
So I started making it at home,and then I just bring it to all
these little get togethersup ahead, a girls night
(06:10):
or something like thatgame night.
And it was so simple and easy.
And I think that that's reallyimportant.
Whereas experience is to havesomething simple and easy.
But also like my my toddleris eating this,
the little sister, youcould make it without spice.
They just doing the regularthing.
You know, I feel likefor parents, we still need
(06:30):
to have those momentswhere we're having our little
get togethers, we're doingour little thing, even if
we can't be both parents,and maybe one's watching
our child or children.
And you need to be fast.
Something that you canquickly do that you can
bring together that feelskind of like, oh, this actually
feels kind of nice, right?
Like so, Yeah, exactly.
(06:52):
Exactly a little treat.
It doesn't take a lot out of usbecause we have we like so much
going on right.
And I love that.
And you're absolutely right.
And I love the ideaof really kind of something
to also pour back into yourself,it sounds like, and being able
to kind of still fillyour cup in those ways
is something yummy and warm.
(07:13):
So I'm so excited.
Okay, so tell me what the stepsare to this recipe.
I'll get cooking while we chat alittle bit about your journey.
Okay, so first off you're goingto want to preheat your oven
to 350 oh okay.
And so after you we hit that offand we're going to start on the
the bread the crispy.
So okay I don't knowif you got the like the
(07:36):
Italian loaf or the, the Frenchfry guide.
Did you go like that.
Yeah I did French baguette.
And I've got them right here.
Okay. Perfect.
Oh, you already have a slice.
Perfect.
So you're going to have the ovenyou're going to have for some
olive oil I think with aboutfour tablespoons inside into a
little dish.
(07:56):
You're going to mix upsome garlic or you can do
the can kind.
This recipe I made it for five.
You know whatever yougot going on you can do.
So if you want to make it morecomplicated, you can.
If you don't make it super easyon yourself, whatever you
got hand.
So you're just going to pourthe minced garlic, you know,
2 to 3 cloves into that.
I will let it sit.
(08:18):
Line baking sheet with someparchment paper.
It is very easy cleanup.
You can put your bread on therebrushing it with that
garlic mixture.
Put that into the oven.
I think it's about 15 minutes.
It'll be in there, but you cancheck it, make sure that it's
appropriate for whatevertype of bread you died.
And then after that is done,you just set that to the side
(08:41):
as well.
And then we'll take that ovenactually up to about
400 degrees.
Yeah. Okay.
The recipe very super simple.
So if you have a spicy red sauceand with an out of
the other side, then you canjust pour that in there.
If you don't have that on handor it's not at your local market
(09:01):
or whatever, just take someof this off and some red pepper
flakes from your cabinetif you want to get ready.
I think a little highertemperature for your heat level
depends on your heat levelthat you like.
I like even bowl back noodles.
I like a little heat.
So you just sprinkle thatin there.
You need to accept that you'regoing to have about like an inch
(09:22):
and a half, two inches,pasta sauce, one of a kind of
smaller dish.
I always use, like my smaller,CorningWare little
casserole dish.
And, then you'll just takethe cheese.
Or if you're not a good cheese,and then cheese works
really well.
And you just put that in thereabout, two inches,
(09:43):
actual cheese, either a big hunkmore than or about two inches
if you're doing it like,and you'll put like two or
however many you end up doing.
I'm not going to hold anyoneback on the goat cheese.
I decide to use those.
I love it, yes.
Yeah.
And then you'll just popthat in the oven and it cooks,
you know, not that long.
(10:04):
Like ten, 15 minutes, somethinglike that.
And I'll be bubblyand the cheese will start
to get kind of, like, gooey,and easily like, it'll spread
really easily and then usethat oven and just slice up
some basil if you likefresh basil, if you don't
have to put it on there and youjust sprinkle that over the top
and then dip some bread in thereand you're good to go.
(10:26):
Perfect.
Well, I can do all of that.
Like you said, sounds prettystraightforward.
So I'll get things going.
And while I do that, I'd love tohear more.
I know you kind of gaveus a sneak peek as far as
some of your journey kind ofhaving to do with figuring out
how to move forwardin parenting, kind of with
your own bag, you know, trauma,like you said that you're
(10:49):
carrying with you and how todo that.
And so I'd love for youto kind of walk us through a
little bit of some of thatjourney for you that you've
experienced and kind ofhow you've navigated that,
because that's really tough.
And I think that's somethingthat many of us parents
absolutely can relate to.
Oh, yeah.
And, certainly interesting.
(11:10):
So I am obviously not firstgeneration, something like that.
Experienced trauma typicallythat goes down the lines.
We have generational traumaand my mom plays. Yeah.
She had a heavy amount of traumathat she went through.
My dad had more like anarcissistic narcissistic
family system.
(11:31):
Right. Okay.
So unfortunately that led tomy dad being that way as well.
And they grew up old school,so that's of physical
punishment, that kind of sorry.
I'm not it.
My dad.
Yeah.
My dad was very emotionally andverbally abusive.
So that wasn't great, right?
(11:53):
Not.
It doesn't really.
I look at what I'veaccomplished, what I've been
able to do, and it's actuallyreally surprising given the
kind of, negative encouragementthat I got as a child.
Yeah.
Can you say more about that?
Like what?
What would that look like?
So, I'm I'm nervous.
(12:14):
I have ADHD, but I alsogiftedness.
I don't think the term I wishwas different.
That means that I have ahigh IQ, among other things.
Right?
So my, one of my dad's go tothings that he would say, like,
he would always be like,are you stupid?
Are you that flair that wedon't use that we don't?
(12:36):
Yeah.
Because that's really horrible.
Those sorts of things.
So that was that negative,encouragement, if you will.
And I gonna show becauseobviously I'm, I'm joking
about that, little darkhumor there.
Yeah. But yeah.
So he would say things like thatand there are like a lot
of expectations on methat I need to just succeed
(12:58):
no matter what.
So my, my family, I thinkthat we help with education
things.
And it was a whole thing.
It was it was not great.
I didn't have a lot of reallygood ideas about myself,
and I thought that I wasa pretty terrible person.
Whenever I would do differentthings and have accomplishments,
(13:21):
it'd be really hard for meto take those, take those in
and really feel pride.
There were.
Yeah, there were a lotof negative things
that I thought about myself.
And I think one of thebiggest things that bring up
is really the volatilityin the house.
So my mom left her.
She has done a lot of work.
My dad is no longer with us.
(13:42):
She actually passed me last,a few years.
That, but my mom has triedconsistently, as I become
an adult, and as she'sreally taken notice of these
different things and honoredmy experience and what I find,
she has taken a lot ofaccountability and has continued
to try to improve herself,which I do appreciate.
(14:03):
My dad was just never going tobe there.
He passed.
Yeah, the same way whenever,whenever he passed, he was
the same way whenever he wasalive.
He never had that closureor that repair that happened,
unfortunately.
And that's another thing wehave to deal with too,
as humans too, is thatcomplicated grief?
(14:25):
If you don't deal withthose things when
somebody is aliveand you have to deal with it
whenever they're gone, too.
So, one of the things thathappened in my house growing up
is the emotional volatilityof my dad had a bad day.
He would come home and screamat us, right?
It was the, the dads walking upto the house.
(14:46):
You better scary.
And I think you're busyand you're not, like, resting on
the couch or whatever.
Like, you either need to be busyor out of sight, to protect
yourself, right?
That's the message that you'regoing to you an hour late
from the day, like we.
We were his emotional or not, ina fun way.
So that was that was terrible.
(15:07):
The not being able to makemistakes.
So as a small child, you breaks,you mess things up like
that happens.
It's a part of learning.
It's a part of development.
And so that really wasn'tokay because we would get
through that in our house.
We can't physically punish him.
So all of those things,even though I don't, I don't
(15:31):
consciously I'm not like, oh,yeah, that's that's what
you should do or whatever.
There is definitely a partof all of us that have
experienced that childhoodthat still has that reactivity,
and we really have to workthrough that.
So yeah, my my journeyinto parenthood actually
happened after my dadhad passed.
So I had all that reallycomplicated grief.
(15:52):
Right.
You know, difficult.
And then later on pregnancy,like you said, parenthood.
I mean, that's that's a wholewhole thing.
Yeah. Yeah.
So been basically it's it's beenso interesting as my child
is developing because my child'sa toddler.
So they're, they're growingand new things are coming up
(16:15):
as they start.
You're testing the limitsand everything, and it's
kind of like, look at youas they're doing something.
You're like, oh, you areboundary testing right now,
aren't you?
That's what's happening.
Yeah, I'm seeing to seethe differences not only in
how I'm responding to them,which is really heartwarming.
And then also, really sad at thesame time because there's that,
(16:41):
that small part of methat wishes that I
would have had that youngerpart of me that wishes I would
have had that kind of responseto that kind of just really
compassionate, empatheticresponse.
So it's been a journey,and I know it's going to
continue evolving. Yeah.
And like you mentioned, kind ofa little bit of that,
that grief, like you said of,hey, I'm able to do these
(17:04):
things, I'm able to offer thesecompassionate responses
as a parent and then tryingto make sense.
Why why couldn't I getthe same thing as a child?
Like what?
What was the barrierthere for me being able
to receive these same thingsthat, hey, I'm a parent
right now and I'm offering tothis little human also.
(17:26):
Oh yeah.
And most of us just internalizethat and like, I wasn't
this enough, I wasn't that I wasdifferent.
And that's where we cometo that sense.
And really deep internalshame of I am bad
because there's thissense of like, if I was
better than my parentswould love me the way that I.
And when that doesn't occur,young kids, like, we're
(17:47):
very focused on ourselvesand we're we're very young
because that's where our braindevelopment is completely
developmentally appropriate.
But then after those typesof negative beliefs, and I had
the belief that I was inherentlybad, that I was inherently
a monster, and that was really,really hard to work through.
So as a parent now,being able to have pride in how
(18:07):
I am parenting my child is huge.
But it's also like,I think I just like whenever
I was, I, I had one ofthe three years and experiences
that I had that I had done,on my own personal therapy.
Okay, I'm pretty sure.
But I also get your time.
(18:28):
And yes, it is safe duringpregnancy if you have trauma
in your past and you needto process that out to be like,
feel better, have lessinformation, have less
activation, it's completelysafe and normal to do.
But I was doing an entiresession with some
parts where you this youngerchild, part of me was
(18:48):
jealous of my, my inner well, mymy fetus.
I guess at that point in time,because I was still adjusting
my child.
But the gender part of me was,was jealous of my baby because
I was going to get to experiencethat experience, that parenting
(19:09):
that I never had to receive.
And it's like it's makeme terrified not
thinking about it becausethat's it's such a want,
and it's younger and it'san emptiness and it's
something that unfortunately fora lot of folks, if they didn't
experience it now,then as adults, they're
parenting themselves,their parents and their children
(19:29):
and parenting their parents.
So in some ways to you and it'slike, oh, I never get that video
with that.
I will never get that.
Yeah.
And like you said, the griefthat kind of is attached
to that, is very real.
And I know that I spoke in,in fact, another parent
who, who's was willing to bea guest on it talked just about
(19:53):
so much that there'sso many periods of parenthood
that have grief that we don'tnecessarily realize are there
until, like you said, we'rekind of experiencing that.
And, you know, maybe we dohave the support of, you know, a
clinician or something kind ofhelping us.
Really understand kind of wheresome of those, those feelings
and thoughts are coming frombecause, as you said, it's
(20:15):
there's a lot going on there.
And you know, I wanted tocircle back.
I heard you mentioned kind ofthat idea of parenting yourself.
And can you say more about that?
Because I know that that'ssomething, you know, in the
clinician world, we sayquite a bit, but not everybody
kind of understands what whatdo we actually mean when we say
something like that?
And what does that look like?
(20:37):
So because I do parts workand people might, recognize
like ISIS or maybe the term egofor that.
Those are both underthe umbrella of hearts work.
Is that what we're looking at?
Are those different little bitsof yourself that are stuck
in these different distressingtimes.
So we'll say, like, you know,if you've heard of the term
inner child healing, right?
(20:57):
So that reparative is startingto work with our internal
system, to work with the partsof ourselves that pop up.
So sometimes you may belike, oh, wow, I just got
really upset about that.
And I threw the toddler tantrum.
But I'm an adult.
Well, it's probably a very youngpart of yourself that's
actually been quite activatedby that.
(21:19):
So how do you start to form thatrelationship with yourself?
How do you start to meetthose parts of yourself?
In a way that shows curiosityand compassion very much
what you needed at that pointin time.
So whenever I'm talking aboutrepeating myself as I'm noticing
something coming up in myself,some sort of activation,
(21:41):
I get curious about it,and then I try to meet that need
for maybe the need that I haveat a certain point, times
like I need comfort orI need to feel safe or I need
connection, or maybe whateverit is for that individual part
of myself, I'm able tocome in and meet that need.
So that's what I mean by repairroutine is actually showing up
(22:04):
for myself in the waythat I need it whenever
I was young.
Yeah.
And I absolutely love that.
And I'd love to know kind ofa little bit more in
your journey, howhow did you work through
that even just like, let's talkabout that pregnancy piece
and you recognizingkind of that, that jealousy
piece of you and kind of how,how do you manage through
(22:28):
something like that where youcan be able to kind of start
to move forward versusgetting stuck in it?
Yeah.
So with that, I hadto acknowledge the grief, right?
That was that one, that desireand that I will not have then,
that I can't do that fullyfor myself and that my child's
(22:50):
experience is not my experience.
I think that is one of thehardest things to do
whenever we're parenting,having had our own childhood
trauma and our own maybeemotionally neglectful parenting
situations is how can Ilet my child have their
own experience without me?
Like curiously livingthrough them to feel like
all these things that I wanted,right?
(23:12):
Yeah, yeah.
I think that separation is firstand foremost is, you know, it's
their their own person.
I am my own person.
And we have to have thatseparation.
So acknowledging that what iscoming up for me,
what I'm feeling is a meetingand not a damn thing.
So having that separation firstis the most important.
(23:35):
And then how can I attendto my needs either in
that moment or like if I'min parenting at that moment,
like, how can I pull that,compartmentalize it, put in
a container, tell myselflike, hey, this is
important work coming backto it, but we're going to put
we're going to come back to itwhenever they're napping
or they've gone to bedfor the night, or we get a break
and we can do that.
We can like ask the otherparent or, you know, time,
(23:58):
a timeout that we needor something.
But yeah, that separation firstand then meeting what
that need is and sometimesit's just having that expression
of emotion.
So allowing myself to grieve,allowing myself to grieve
that I didn't have thatexperience and noticing
the beauty of my childhaving that experience, but that
(24:19):
I don't need to cling onto their their experience.
That's an absolute that. Yeah.
And that's so beautiful.
And I do want to kind ofhighlight that, that piece
that you mentioned, that littlenugget of, that I think so
many parents do kind ofstruggle and with in the
sense of, not vicariouslyliving through them, not,
(24:43):
you know, really kindof making it a them problem.
When really if we wereto get honest with ourselves,
it's a, it's an US problemas the adult in the room
and that's such a difficultbalance to navigate.
And so to kind of reallyhighlight that that absolutely
so many times it can bethe easy route, if you will,
(25:06):
to kind of be like, oh, whatdo you feel like, like you said,
your kid, it's something thatyou did from like with
this all could have been avoidedif you would just been better
and to kind of be able to,to step back and say, well,
hang on a second.
Like, let's be realisticabout the fact that we're
talking to a child who doesn'thave, you know, kind of all
the capacities, and they havetheir bad days to, yet they have
(25:30):
a lot less time to mature,a lot less time to be able
to build some of these skills,to regulate, in a way that we
would want them to.
And yes, we can work up to that,but it's not something
that they're inherently bornwith.
And so, you know, offeringsome of that compassion
and grace to them, toabsolutely like that is never
(25:53):
so I also run a group,of course, for therapy for adult
children and emotionallyimmature parents that are their
no contact with their parents.
One when I need to change myI mean, the fact that I'm like,
how do we encompass it all?
But one of the things thatwe were talking about,
I think, in the groupthe other day, was that idea of,
in emotionally immaturefamily systems where you have
(26:16):
a lot of emotional reactivity.
And by the way, anyone listeningto this, if you had emotionally
mature parents, congratulations.
You were also emotionallyimmature.
Until we work on those thingsand we we feel that sense of
emotional maturity.
And that's because we only havethe tools that we're given
so very much.
Those children were born withtools.
They have to learn.
Those tools.
(26:36):
Your parents are caregiversare primary caregivers are
the people they help youthe most.
That this is hopefullyalso in school and education,
all that the like.
The more fostering of us that wecan get around it, the better.
But we were talking todayabout how, it feels like in
those families that you'rejust supposed to know
(26:57):
everything, like, oh,you don't know how to do that.
Like how the attention to how todo that.
Right? Right.
No one taught you.
So. Yeah. Yeah.
How are you supposedto know that?
But there isn't thatthat reflection from those
parents or caregivers.
So everything even the verytrying things that my child
is like that boundary testing.
(27:20):
I'm talking I'm thinkingabout them last night
just staring point blankin the eyes.
And just like as they do,they're like, yeah,
they're waiting for me to, like,stop and say, no, you can't
do that.
You know, because we'reat the point where we have
to say no.
Sometimes we're safety and likewhat they were doing was fine
because I knew they thinkthey knew how to get down from
the furniture item they were on.
(27:42):
I think, oh, gosh, sorry.
I was talking about that.
And then I forgot whereI was going with I.
Yeah, you were, you were talkingabout that whole the whole idea
again, going back to giving thatthen that compassion
and that grace, you know.
Yeah. Yeah.
Developmentally appropriate.
So I mean, there's nothing likethe throwing phase and the
(28:05):
noun phase and theeverything else like that phase.
I just like give myself a littlefeedback, take a breath
and remind myself it'sdevelopmentally appropriate.
It's developmentallyappropriate.
And that's what I just sayto myself over and over again,
like, and then we can proceedfrom there.
Just a little reality check isdevelopmentally appropriate.
(28:25):
This is what's happening.
That's their phaseof development.
It's okay.
I think it's absolutely.
And I'll just it's littleadd piece to that,
that it's also okay to be likeand it really sucks.
It's developmentally appropriateand it really sucks. Okay.
Now what are we gonna do.
Because that's very early,even though it is
developmentally appropriate,it doesn't mean that it's easy
(28:48):
or that like you said, thatwe've been given a manual.
They don't pop outas much as wish they did, with
an instruction manual on youryour child specifically.
They don't.
And so being ableto also kind of it's okay
to say like this sucks.
This is really hard.
Absolutely.
(29:09):
And that's whenever you makethis step and you
go over to your friends, right.
This small time here.
Yeah, yeah.
I was together for herbreak some.
Absolutely.
And I'm so curious, like,as you're going through
this journey, like,it sounds like there's been
very moments where, like yousaid, you've you've had
(29:31):
to sit back and kind of evaluatewhat's coming up for you.
Have there been any, like,moments for you that really
helped you move from that place?
I feel like I hear parentswhere we can kind of go 1
or 2 of two ways of saying,well, this is all I know, and so
how can I know anything elseto say?
(29:53):
Yes, this is all like,no, I'd like to do something
different, which it sounds likeyou kind of chose that
for yourself.
Like was there an moment for youthat kind of really set
you on that that journeyof deciding, like, I'm not going
to parent the same wayas my parents.
Yeah.
Making that became adecision. Yeah.
(30:15):
Where I became a parent.
That was before I even decidedon my myself, before I even met
my husband.
Like, I knew that if I did,because there was a
period of time whereI thought that maybe I didn't
actually want to have kids,there was a good portion,
probably the secondhalf of my 20s, going into my
(30:36):
into 30s, and I was like,rolling that out again.
Right?
And then I got around 30 as,as some people do,
not all people, becauseI think being childfree
is a completely valid choice.
And I was like, and with mydad's like in passing
everything, it really makesyou think about life
and mortality and everything.
(30:57):
And I was like, you know whatI do?
I do want to have a childin this one.
We'll see what happens.
Over here, with all thecontroversial choices I had
being childfree at first,I was like, oh, I'll just
have one kid.
And I'm like, do you wantanother?
And we'll see what happens?
But yeah, so going into that,I even whenever I was childfree,
(31:18):
I knew that if I ever didhave a child, one day I, I,
I would not parentin the same way that that
was not the, the path I wasgoing down.
And so for me, looking fora partner, looking for a spouse,
whenever I decide like,these are some different things
that I wanted for my life,that was really important is
(31:38):
how are they going to bewith a child?
Like, how is their reactivity?
What does that look like?
So I went in very eyes opento the whole parenting thing
whenever it comes to mental,emotional type of stuff in that.
So even being a therapist,even being somebody that I think
prepared as much as onecan prepare, it doesn't mean
(32:02):
that you're immune to everythingthese things happen.
Yes.
I think some, moments for me,some moments were really
hard and difficult.
So, even with preparation,right, is I have misophonia, so
loud sounds and specific ones,like crying and really loud.
(32:24):
I stop barking in the same wayI, it makes me.
And it's not like anger towardsother people, but it makes
me feel like I just want to takemy own head and bash
it into a wall.
Like that's how badthe sounds are with nurses
on the air.
So having an infantthat is crying is difficult.
(32:44):
So one of the momsthat I'm like, oh my gosh,
am I not going to be ableto have this?
Whatever.
Then I found out that youjust can't, like, noise
dampening headphones.
They're not headphones that,earplugs in.
That's a lie with the sound likeit takes the edge off.
That's not like reading for you,because I just like this really
(33:05):
ridiculous amount of,like, internal.
And it's not towardsother people.
Again, like, never was my childor my spouse or even like that.
I mean situation but it's liketowards yourself.
It's like this really weird.
Like just make it like thissounds like myself.
Yeah.
So the the earplugs werereally great.
And that was a moment ofall right, like, how can I think
(33:26):
I'm a great problem solvers?
I've really leaned into thatin parenting and then some of
those moments, like as my child30 years older and again,
founder, testing allthose things that kind of like
really get under your skin.
Not only is there I believein seeing this developmentally
appropriate, but there's alsoI just started channeling
like this, this feeling of,I could use my breathing
(33:49):
and, like, send my breath downand, like, imagine, like
I'm with a tree. Like,I can just like reading
my body. Yes.
Love that.
Background is really grounding.
But just imagine mereally solid, like a tree.
And just like anything that's,you know, they're crying
and their fussiness and allthe things, right?
(34:11):
And it's just like waves washingover you.
So I'm actually able to, like,really be pretty present
and centered in those momentswith my toddlers having those
other meltdowns, like being ableto be there for them.
Like, not like overreact or likelock my child in a room
(34:32):
or make them or anything elselike that, which is what would
have happened in my housegrowing up.
So those are momentslike those were hard moments,
but they're also big momentsof pride because I was able to
work through that.
So the data has a wow, I guessI could have gone a different
way.
But also whenever I think aboutsomebody's going into
(34:52):
a different way than that,I'm like, oh, that's
heartbreaking.
Like, how could we be like,how did that happen?
Like, how did my parentsjust see me crying?
We're just like, oh, we're gonnathank you now, right?
Yeah.
We'll give you something tocry about.
Really?
Absolutely amazing.
Like you said, just also maybebeing able to have that,
(35:15):
that couple seconds of like,look what I did even we're
so good at being really criticalof ourselves and all
the things that we're not doingor could do better.
What I really loved about whatyou said of being able to to
sit back and for, like I said,just a couple seconds.
We're not asking for anythingbig of just giving yourself that
kudos of like, oh, lookwhich way.
(35:36):
I mean, like, I'm I'm proudof that.
That's really cool.
Me yeah, I think that one of themy favorite things is actually
a little bit too, is whenevermy husband reflects what
a good parent I am to me,because there's, again, whenever
we have those reallyemotionally, verbally abusive
(36:00):
childhoods where you're not ableto build a sense of pride
in yourself that like, you canyou can like really be like,
oh yeah, I did this.
Like, this was hard.
And so my husband reflectingback, like, you're a really good
mom, like, you do this and thesedifferent things, and I
get to like, because I know it.
I don't get to, like,have pride.
(36:22):
And it's like this weirdresidual thing from childhood,
right.
And so whenever somebody elseis reflecting that to me,
and I know that he really meansthat, it's just like it's like,
with my child being 31 day,I feel like, yeah, this,
this feeling, as they, as theyget older, let's let's see.
(36:45):
I think they're pretty sureI believe that we can,
like you said, it may takesome work and may take a
stepping back.
And, like you said, problemsolving.
I think that's just it.
It's finding that motivation,and making that choice
to, to try something differentthan what, you know, and,
and deciding, you know,I'm not just going to
(37:07):
rest on that.
And so I think that's that'shuge.
And gosh, I love hearingthat for you because I want that
for all my, all my parentsis to be able to hear that and
and have us championingeach other, in this thing
that's so, so hard to do and soawesome.
(37:28):
You know, as we getget moving here and closing
things, I'd really love to know,are there any like, resources or
anything that you foundkind of along your journey
that maybe any of our listenerswho are kind of working through
their own stuff might go, okay,let me let me check this out.
Oh, yeah.
There's so many good booksand then a few of them.
(37:52):
So the includes, parenting fromthe inside out, I think
is so good because that's likerepairing teamwork.
Good inside.
I think that's not too bad.
Is that thing in other namesis I'm having a messy.
But the inside is really greatand lovely.
And it comes from that,just very attachment focused,
very, like, shame reductiontype of parenting, which is
(38:15):
awesome. Yes.
Already available, have reallywonderful in life.
And then there's this one calledRaising Good Humans.
And that's about decreasingour reactivity as parents,
which is very importantas anything I've said here has.
(38:35):
I was the other very probablythe other is for you guys.
I'm so good ones that there'sthere's a lot out there.
And once you start like,you know, shopping around
for those, that's going togive you other ideas
for other books that aresimilar to the huge
audiobook fan, because you can.
I just happen to haveheadphones.
I listen to them while you'rearound the house, where I get
most of my reading donewhile driving, so I do Audible
(38:58):
or Spotify and and soI get a lot of that done.
And it it helps to have thatbecause not only is hey, here's
information, here'spsychoeducation, but here's
the feeling of, oh, I'mnot the only person that is
needed this.
And that was really real for me.
Like, oh, there's a lotof people that actually have me
in this, much so they wrotea book like they wrote
(39:21):
a bestseller about this.
So I'm not alone.
Absolutely.
I love that.
And thank you so much for beingwilling to share that.
And I'm sure the rest of youhave got everything ready.
I'll just pop it in the oven.
I'm so excited to taste.
So thank you for sharingthe recipe with me.
(39:41):
With our listeners as well.
And I really do want tothank you about being willing
to share this part ofyour story.
As you know, I kind of saidat the beginning,
I think there's there's so muchof that that's facade.
And, yeah, we're trying tokind of keep up with the
Joneses. Right.
And so being ableto kind of pull that
(40:03):
curtain back with me,I thank you so much for
for normalizing that thisis indeed hard, especially,
like you said, when you'recoming from your your own trauma
background and being ableto kind of choose something
different because it'sthat's not easy now.
And it definitely isn't anautomatic choice for a lot of
folks.
Like, there's so many greatthings that we are fighting
(40:26):
against us.
And it's it's a journey.
It's a that's for sure.
Really.
Well, it sounds good.
Thank you so muchfor taking time out of your day
to chat with me, and I reallyappreciate it.
And I'm sure I'll have totap you again and say, come and
talk about it.
I'm sure we could talk for days.
(40:47):
Of all the difficultiesof parenting.
And then here.
Yeah.
Well, thank you everyone forjoining us.
We'll see you next time.
If you or anyone that you knowis struggling with any of
the topics that we discussed intoday's episode, make sure
to check out our show notesfor support and resources.
(41:10):
You can get help.
Thanks again for joining uson today's episode of The
Real Family.
Eat.
If you're a parent readyto share your real life
parenting story, make sure toreach out to us and our website
found in the show notes.
And that goes for today's recipesocial media's support
and resources.
All of that can be foundin our show notes,
(41:32):
so make sure to check them outand make sure to follow, like,
share, subscribe, and stayup to date on all things
the real Family.
I hope you'll join us next timefor more food for thought
and thoughtful food! Enjoyyour eats!
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