January 7, 2025 • 57 mins
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In this compelling episode, Sara Hall—Spanish teacher, mom of two, and author/podcaster—joins Reesa Morala, LMFT, to discuss the complexities of raising mixed-race children. Drawing from her own experiences growing up in a mixed-race household, Sara shares how she navigates parenting challenges, especially when her children face situations she can’t personally relate to. She highlights the steps she’s taken to foster inclusivity, empathy, and a deeper understanding within her family.
Alongside this heartfelt conversation, Sara shares her family’s recipe for Martabak—a delicious dish that reflects her cultural roots and brings the family together at the table.
Subscribe, like, and follow for more relatable parenting stories, helpful tips, and tasty recipes!
💬 What's been a parenting challenge you've faced? Share your story in the comments!
🫔 Tried the recipe? Let us know how it turned out!
Find Sara at:
raisinglegaciespodcast@gmail.com
FB: @raisinglegaciespodcast
https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/raisinglegacies?
Journals: https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B078VHL9MY
Two Homes: https://a.co/d/0D9mOFB
Dos Navidades (Spanish Edition): https://a.co/d/4szCyG3
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Martabak Recipe
INGREDIENTS:
1lb of ground beef
2 cloves of garlic
3 eggs
1 bunch of scallions, sliced
1 package of egg roll wrappers
Salt and Pepper, to taste
INSTRUCTIONS:
1. In a wok or skillet, drizzle 1 tbsp oil over medium heat. Add the beef and stir in the garlic, salt, and pepper. Cook, stirring often and breaking up the beef, until browned. Once Browned, crack the eggs into the mixture and stir until the eggs are thoroughly mixed and cooked. Remove from heat and let cool.
2. Once thoroughly cooled, mix scallions into the beef.
3. Place about 1/4c of beef mixture in center of egg roll wrapper. Roll like a burrito.
5. In a deep skillet and add 1c oil over medium heat. Fry the folded Martabak until browned and crisp on each side, about 3 minutes total. Place on towel lined plate.
******
Resources:
That’s What I’m All About Course (A guide through Cultural Identity Journal): https://raising-legacies1.teachable.com/p/that-s-what-i-m-all-about1?
Disclaimer: The content provided on this podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and does
******
Host: Reesa Morala, MA, Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist. Reesa is a parenting specialist with a niche in supporting couples. Find Reesa hosting couples and parenting workshops nationwide!
Make sure to like, follow, and subscribe!
For the video version of this episode find us at: https://www.embracerenewaltherapy.com/
If you are a parent ready to share your real-life parenting struggle and dish up a recipe with Reesa, apply here:
https://www.embracerenewaltherapy.com/real-family-eats-guest
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
That was really hurtful to hearthat my then second grader
was having an issue with achild saying, I don't believe
in Black Lives Matter.
Hey everyone, thanks forjoining me.
My name is Reesa and I'myour host.
(00:21):
We are talking to real familiesabout real stories here on the
real Family Eats, wherewe've got food for thought
and thoughtful food.
So let's eat.
(00:43):
All right, everyone.
So my guest today is thelovely Sarah.
Sarah, thank you so muchfor joining us today.
My pleasure.
I'm so excited to be here.
Yes, I am so excited to hearyour story.
But first, for everyonewho does not know you like
I know you, which isreally well.
Can you introduceyourself for me?
(01:05):
Of course.
So I am a mom, teacher, creator,and really awesome friend.
And I'm trying to figure outlife and be who I am as a human.
Apart from being an educator,being a parent.
(01:27):
Because I feel like those rolesconsumed me in a way
that I finally had to startrecognizing that I was a person
before those things,and I am a person in addition
to those things.
Those things werethe only pieces that defined me.
So that's sort ofwhat my journey has been
all about, and helpingother people recognize that
they're not alone in thisparenting journey.
(01:47):
Parenting is really hard.
And for those of youwho are parents, you know
that it comes with all thesechallenges that are not written
in any of the books that claimto be the guidebooks
to parenting that don'tactually fit for everyone.
And it’s kind of been a longjourney, I started
around the time of Covidwith a podcast, because
(02:09):
what else was I to doduring the time when I was home
educating my children from homeand teaching from home,
I had a lot of timebecause I wasn't going anywhere
after what would havebeen work hours.
So I ended up finally decidingto dive into my creative side
and kind of reignite some piecesthat were missing
for a long time to sort oflay dormant for a while.
(02:31):
And I started Raising Legaciespodcast where I had guests
like Your Lovely Self Reesa,and I had other people
on sharing their story specificto parenthood.
Each family's challengeswere different because
their situations were different.
So whether they became parentsby circumstance or they
became parents through adoptionor by choice, or they
were independent parents,everyone had a different
(02:52):
story to share.
So that is sort of what got meworking publicly
on using my voice to connectwith people and let people
know that they were not alone.
I sort of took a breakfrom the podcast itself, and I'm
still working on someother projects, specifically
in writing right now, and Iwill share some of those things
(03:12):
as I progress further in them.
Right now, they're sort of insome premature stages, but I
have published a couple of booksas well, and I have tried
to connect my audiencewith stories of either my own,
my children's, or a combinedexperience that will relate
to people whose storiesare not often told in books.
And that's where I am going now.
(03:36):
Very cool.
So any of this stuff thatour readers might be
interested in, or mightbe useful or beneficial.
Shameless plug.
Where can we find them?
How can we find your book?
Tell us more.
Yeah, so you can find meon Instagram or on Facebook.
Rethink Legacy's podcast.
And my podcast is everywhere.
(03:58):
The podcasts are heard.
So you can catch all ofthose episodes that I've done.
You can also reach outto Raising Legacy's podcast
at gmail.com, especially ifyou have a story that you'd
like to share.
As I start to plan for recordingepisodes this fall,
that would be.
I'm always looking for peopleto share their parenting stories
specifically, and I havecurrently two books
(04:21):
and then several notebooksand journals that are available
on Amazon.
You can look under authorSarah Hall, which is a super
common name, so you may want togo directly from the link that I
will share.
With that, you can find my bothmy journals and the books
that I publish.
One of the books that I haveis actually in Spanish.
It's called Dos Navidad,and it was written to tell
(04:44):
a story of a teenager who wasexperiencing his first
Christmas with divorced parents.
So it was actuallytwo Christmases and sort of what
some of the pain came along withthat sort of what the
experience did for him.
And it turned out to be one ofthose things that I didn't
(05:04):
I didn't know that I needed towrite that story, but it was
something that I was working formy work on with my children,
for them to tell a storythat they could connect to.
When I was initiatingthe separation from
their father.
And then the other onewas a partnership with my
oldest son.
It's called Two Homes, and itwas written there for very young
(05:28):
children to understandthat there is some normalization
in having two homes whereparents are separated,
or parents were nevermarried in the first place,
but you get to spend timeat each one.
And the common denominatoris the love that your parents
have for you.
And how you shouldcelebrate that.
It gives a perspectiveof like, here's what's happened.
(05:50):
Here's what happens at my mom'shouse, here's what happens at
my dad's house, and howthe experiences are sort
of parallel, butthey're not the same.
And so then it comes backto the whole, both of my parents
love me, and it's a great onefor the reason that I
love that one so much is becauseDante was actually
an illustrator, so he waseight years old at the time,
and he drew the picturesfor him.
(06:11):
And it's somethingwe really cherish because that
experience was was helpfulfor us to be able
to sort of bond through someof the hardship that came along
with separation.
But also we don't have a,traumatizing divorce situation
that has happened in our home.
It's been very peaceful,tranquil, loving, and the boys
(06:31):
have not heard from much of it.
Thankfully, the biggest piecewas just that there was
some newness surroundingnow going to a different place
to visit daddy.
So I think, yeah,a lot of the pain
was coming from my and thinking,what are they going
to experience?
What's going to happenwith them?
Are they going to hurtfrom this?
What do I need to doto make sure that my children
(06:53):
don't suffer and so this wasa great way for us to kind of
come together in that moment.
And I again, it wasanother thing that I didn't
know that I needed myself.
Wonderful.
And like Sara said, we willdefinitely be linking all
that in our show notes.
So make sure to take a peekat those if that's
something that resonateswith you.
So thank you so much for sharingthat piece of it.
(07:15):
And sharing it sounds likeyour heart's, with us as well.
So thank you.
Okay, before we get started,because I absolutely want
to hear more of your story.
And I know, you know,you've got lots of experience.
So we're just going to talkjust a snippet of some of that
experience today.
But before we do that, can youshare with us what recipe
(07:35):
are you going to teach me todayand what why did you pick
this one boy?
So I chose Martha Bok, which isa Japanese egg roll
from Indonesia.
My father is from Indonesia,and it's one of the foods that I
remember him cooking for mewhen I was really young
(07:57):
and before my own parentsseparated and my mom
learned to cook the same food.
But sometimes it was better.
Okay, that, but it wasit was really it was amazing how
there was a thing that I thoughtthat only my dad could do.
And my mom, who raisedfour children independently
(08:20):
and worked two jobs and was busya lot.
One of the things that shealways did was make sure that
we were eating and that we wereeating well, and so that was
one thing that sort ofstuck with me my whole life,
along with the comfortthat the food itself brings,
because it's got that crunchand it's savory and salty,
like all at one time.
And it's, it's it's reallycomforting, but it's
(08:41):
comforting in an emotionalway as well, because it was
one of those staple foodsin our home that was like,
we're going to eat. We needeveryone coming together.
It's always a dish that I passwhenever I'm invited somewhere.
It's easy for me to make,and it's a fun family
experience.
My boys have helped me for rollthe egg roll wrappers up
and stuff for me,and it's a it's a big deal
(09:03):
across families under likebetween my siblings and myself
and Marketo.
So love it.
Okay, what packed into itand it's really yummy.
Yes. Okay.
So with that so I haveahead of time.
So I browned our ground meatsand with the garlic
with our eggs.
(09:24):
And now it sounds like what do Ido after, after that I've got my
my scallions.
Here am my mixing that.
Do they go separately?
Tell me more.
So you do want to mix themright into the meat.
You do want to make surethat the meat cools first
because you want the onionto have.
It's not.
It's flavor, right.
It's only if you cook themalongside it.
(09:45):
Some of that flavor kind of goesinto the meat, and you want it
to sort of stand out separately.
So you are going to mix them in.
I just dump the green onionsright into the meat bowl
or drop it in a bowl.
I can't have it in a bowl. Yeah.
Perfect.
Yeah.
So just mix it rightinto your bowl and
you can move it around.
Make sure the onions are kindof evenly spread throughout all
(10:06):
of the meat.
Perfect.
Okay, so while I'm mixingthis I'd love to know.
So I know today we're goingto talk a little bit about
the uniqueness that you havein your family where you've got
mixed babies and and some ofthe challenges that can come up
with that, that maybeother families can relate to,
(10:27):
or maybe they've they'veexperienced themselves.
I'd love to hear more about thatexperience and maybe some of
the challenges, as well assome of just the joys that come
along with, with that as well.
And mixing cultures.
Joy.
So I didn't mention beforewhen I talked about sort
of who I am.
I said I was an educator,I didn't tell you what I teach,
(10:47):
so I teach Spanish.
And as I mentioned before it,my father is from Indonesia.
I grew up not knowingthe language, and because
my parents had separated,I didn't have much opportunity.
Once I decided it was somethingI wanted to actually get that
experience.
So it was something I hadto sort of start learning on
my own.
And I didn't do thatuntil college.
(11:07):
So now I'm very low inproficiency and high
and interest, and soI want to learn.
And that is somethingthat I recognized in college
when I was studying abroad,I was in Argentina
when I realized there was abig piece of me
that was missing,and it was that I hadn't
connected with my culture.
(11:28):
And in fact, when I wasreally young, I was sort
of ashamed of the culturebecause I thought, well,
my dad doesn't look like me,and my dad's skin is darker
than mine, and I didn't seea lot of people who looked
like me.
I grew up in a pretty diversecommunity, so there were
quite a bit of Latinos,and we had lots of black people
who were either coming fromAsian families or they were
(11:52):
African Americans.
There were mixes of the two.
Lots of people from Puerto Ricoin our community.
And then, there was meand there was no one who looked
like me, this Asian Americanlittle girl who could be
white passing.
But, you know, my mom is white.
The dad is not.
And it was kind of it waskind of hard to find somebody
who was anything like me exceptmy siblings.
(12:13):
And so that piece was somethingthat once I grew up and realized
I had that because being young,I didn't necessarily know
that was a struggle for meuntil I got a little older
and I was like, wow.
Like, I think I could havebenefited from having some
representation or havingsome people who were like me,
(12:33):
and I wanted to commit myselfto making sure that my own
children did not feel that,because no matter what, and when
they found another IndonesianAmerican man to have
children with my kids were goingto look different from me.
So that was a big piece.
And when my kids were born,their father and I just is black
(12:56):
decided that we wantedto make sure they were
surrounded by diversity,that they were well-educated
on people who were like them,exposed to people who were
different from them,but that they did have that
representation availableto them.
The big struggles can beI had one time at the doctor's
office where I am the one whotirelessly fills out
(13:17):
the paperwork for the kids to doall their appointments.
I take them everywhere,and the doctor looked at me
and asked me if I wastheir bio mom, and I was
like, yes, I am like friendly.
But also there wassomething like in the notes
that she was looking at.
She's like, I just wantedto make sure I could ask you
about this thing.
But it was like, why?
(13:38):
Why wouldn't I be their mom?
And that piece was kind ofhard for me, and I've had
other times the biggestI think the, the bigger
challenge for me is when there'san experience that they're
having that I can't relate to.
So specifically in our schooldistrict, it's a predominantly
white school district, and theythere are other children of
(14:01):
color in both of their classes,but there's a lot of times where
they're experiences that they'rehaving that they can't
necessarily relate to theirclassmates in, or they're having
a different type of struggle.
And because their lensis different and they their lens
(14:21):
is different from mine.
And so when I try to teach themabout perspective and teach them
how to work through some ofthe challenges that come along
with being mixed children in apredominantly white setting,
I was, yes, a mixed children,but it was not a predominantly
white setting.
So our experiencesare not the same in that matter,
and even their fathercan necessarily give them
(14:45):
that support either because hishis experiences were different.
So I think in that in general,I think the hard thing
as a parent where you wantto protect your child,
you want to give themopportunity, but you also
want to make sure thatthey have skills that they need
to work through some ofthose pieces.
And yet, since you haven'tlived them yourself, you don't
(15:08):
necessarily know what to offerand what might be helpful
for them.
And I think that that'sprobably where I struggle
the most is themwanting to relate to them,
helping them find who they are.
But they're not going to be me,and I don't want them to be,
absolutely.
(15:28):
Before we go on.
Okay, I've got my my meat mixed.
Am I taking a rapper?
Can you tell me what do I donext?
Well, you're going totake your rapper and you're
going to turn it so that it'sin a diamond shape.
Okay?
They come in squares, they rollrappers, and you want to turn it
so that it's like a diamondyou're going to scoop.
I usually take a tablespoon,but it's a generous one.
(15:52):
And I'll go okay,into the middle of that girl.
Rapper.
You'll take the bottom piecethat's facing you and
you're going to push it forwardto cover the meat. Okay.
Then you're going to takethe two side pieces
and slap them in.
Doesn't matter which onecomes first okay.
(16:13):
And then that top piece isso it kind of is going to
look like a house.
The square with a littletriangle on top.
Now you're just going to roll itso that the triangle gets
wrapped around the whole self.
And what I usually do is justtake a small bit of warm
water and dab it on my finger,and use that to seal
(16:35):
the egg roll.
If you wish, you could also uselike an egg wash.
I've never done that,but if you find this recipe
online it will tell youto do that.
I always do it with water.
Gotcha.
Okay, I will try again.
My guide split openbut continue.
I'd love to hear morewhile I try to figure out
(16:56):
how to perfect my rollingtechnique.
So I heard you mentionedin there that, you know, part of
some of the difficultiesis your lines is a little bit
different.
Your story, even thoughit was also, you know,
mix, mix baby yourself, it'sa different story.
It's a different storythan their fathers.
And so I'm curious what are someof the things that for
(17:20):
you folks, you sat downand said, hey, this is
really importantfor me to be able to be able
to provide a space that theyfeel seen, that they feel safe.
And how are you addressingsome of those things?
Boy so this is.
A great question.
(17:40):
I love it and I'mchallenged by it.
So one thing as a teacher,when you I've been teaching for
15 years, and so whenI'm teaching, I'm looking
at other people'schildren, like, how would I want
my child to be taught?
Right.
And what would I wantsomebody to be doing for
(18:02):
my child?
And how would I want my childto respond to me?
So when I'm in the classroom,I have the expectation
that students will speak with meprecisely, and also that
they will advocatefor themselves.
And a big discrepancyin the classroom, especially.
I teach in middle school,especially in the middle school,
(18:23):
people often think that a childspeaking back as an adult is
then being disrespectful.
Whereas if a child is doingsomething that warrants
different, redirecting andI redirect a child, but I was
mistaken in what was happening,I want the child to let me
know that so that I'm more awaremoving forward.
(18:44):
Other people sometimes thinkthat that's if the adult
says you're wrong, you're wrong,and that's absolutely not
it for me.
So when I had my own childcome home and tell me about an
experience that he hadin his classroom where he had
come back from the bathroomand the teacher was telling him
that he needed to go and getback to work, and he was
(19:06):
wasting his time.
And he got a negative dojo markbecause he was off task.
But he told me when he got homehe didn't know what the task was
and that when he had come backfrom the bathroom, he had asked
a friend and the friendwas telling him, but the teacher
perceived him talking tothe friend as him
being off task.
(19:27):
And so I spoke with himand with her about it and just
sort of went dancing.
Know that there's a wayto advocate for yourself.
There's a way to talk withthe teacher and
if you don't know what to do,ask the adult.
Because sometimes when you'retalking with your friends,
it might not look like toa teacher that you're.
On task.
And for me, that's a hard piece,because why does my child
(19:53):
have to make it look likehe's on task if he is on task?
Because what does that mean?
And it does he have to look likehe's on task because he's
typically a problem causerin the classroom.
And I wonder that all the time,because I get negative notes
(20:14):
sometimes and wonder, like,is this a thing that happened
4 or 5, six times?
And finally the teacherwas like, you're getting
a mark for it.
Or is this a thing where it'slike first time and she's
nipping it in the bud,but it's an unnecessary nipping
because it wasn't somethingthat he actually did wrong.
And how do you teach a childwhen something is wrong in the
(20:40):
teacher's eyes, but notnecessarily in the parents,
because of the waythat the parents are raising
their children or becauseof what the teacher considers
disrespect.
And so when she andI spoke about it, I let her know
if he says something to youor uses a tone that is perceived
disrespectful, that'sabsolutely not okay.
(21:02):
But I do want you to be awarethat I spoke with him about
standing up for himselfwhen he's called out
for something that he didnot do wrong.
And there is a differencebetween lying about what
you did wrong, and he hasto own it when he does mess up.
But also in cases like that,he was afraid to say something
because he thought that he wasgoing to be disrespectful,
(21:23):
and that was definitely nothis aim.
But I think that a lot of timesteachers can look at children
with an unconscious bias.
And because my childrenare mixed in a predominantly
white district, that's alwaysa fear of mine, that somebody's
going to look at my childand think, you're not white,
and so you're going tobe causing trouble or with
(21:46):
a stereotype that comes along,unfortunately, with being
a person of color.
And I hate that so much for himbecause another thing
that his father said to meand to him during one of these
conversations about behavior inthe classroom was, look at the
image that you are portrayingright now.
(22:07):
You know, he's by himself.
These like jeans that he woreto school, he really liked them.
With Harris currently in dreads,most children in his school
keep a short haircut, or some ofthe boys in his class have like
longer cuts.
But it was like long,straight hair.
So he stands outbecause his hair is different.
(22:27):
And because of that piece,it draws a different type
of attention to him and he wantsthe dreads.
It's a part of who he is andhe likes it.
So I encourage that.
And yet there's some truthto the fact that when you
stand out, you don't alwaysget the benefit of the doubt.
(22:52):
And that's hard for me to teachto a child, because as an adult,
I struggle to wrap my headaround it.
And I have seencases where those these
small things that arebeing addressed by teachers
are being addressed towardspecific children
that have either the sameskin tone or they are not
(23:17):
the athletes or they are notgirls, or they are
not always like there arecultural identifiers that are
100% outside of a child'scontrol, and yet they're
what adults are usingto determine who gets
what treatment.
And that's what I'm workingas an educator to undo.
(23:40):
But I also have to sort oflet my child know and have him
kind of be on his guardabout how people are going
to perceive him as a humandifferently because of what
he looks like.
And I hate that so much becauseit's 2024.
Why is this what we're doing?
And yet it's what we're doing?
(24:01):
Yeah.
And gosh, I mean, how how haveyou folks gone about having that
conversation with your kids?
You know, when you yourselfare looking at it and going,
I don't understand it.
It doesn't make sensein my brain.
I wish I could stealthis from you.
At the same time acknowledgingthat much of these behaviors,
(24:21):
much of these mindsetsare things that we can't
physically go into someone'sbrain and change it and make
it better.
We can't make their behaviorchange.
So how do you have thatconversation?
How have you folks been kind ofnavigating that really,
really tough place to be in?
(24:42):
And unfortunately, we've had tohave conversations that I think
are above the typical eightand ten year old level of
typical comprehension.
Our children understand it,and I hate that they have to
leave it very honest with themanytime they ask the question.
And also, their father hasshared stories about him
(25:05):
being profiled and pulled overbecause he fit the description
of a crime and things like thatin his car.
And we don't shareviolent stories,
but if they come up in the newsand my children hear about them,
we'll ask questions about whatthey know, they'll hear
what they've heard, and we'llgive them as much information
(25:26):
as we can.
And then there's suchan emotional piece to it that
the only thing we can dois educate them on the concept
of working on whatwe can control in those
situations, and a big,a big story that we shared
with them was how one of one ofmy children, they both have
(25:46):
the same shirt, but one ofthem had it on at school one day
and it was these two black boysand it said black feature on it,
and it was this beautifullike from target.
I love target, so it wasfrom target.
And in their section,during Black History Month,
it was a shirt that wascelebrating diversity,
which also those shirtsneed to be on sale
(26:07):
all year long.
But they weren't whenI bought one.
I bought one for each of them,and the one of them
was wearing it full and he hadthe person in his class,
a white boy, say to a friend,audibly like, write your shot
down.
Hey, I don't believe inBlack Lives Matter.
And the shirt didn't sayBlack Lives Matter, but that's
(26:28):
what he did from that. Andso Dante came home and
he said this, this personsaid this to me.
How can you not believe in that?
Like it's a real thing.
So we had to talk abouthow there are people
who believe that Black LivesMatter should not exist because
all lives matter, and yetthey're missing the point
(26:50):
because black lives matteras much as the other lives.
If we're going to sayall lives matter, so all lives
matter until the black ones winsand equal life to their white
counterparts.
And that was hurtful for himbecause he's like this kid
supposed to be, you know,he's my hero.
He's a black me.
(27:11):
I don't think they werenecessarily good friends.
It was still relatively earlyin the school year when he was
wearing that shirt,but still, like they had been
around each other well enough tolong enough to be acquainted
with one another and shouldbe able to feel safe there
with each other all day,every day.
And that was reallyhurtful to hear that my
(27:33):
then second grader was havingan issue with a child saying,
I don't believe in Black LivesMatter and my my heart broke and
I had to just kind ofbe very matter of fact.
And also let him know thatwhile we can't change the minds
(27:54):
of other people, what we arein control of is how we respond
to what people are sayingand what we can do
with our time, with our power,with our voices, is continue
to lift people out, continueto celebrate them in their
differences, continueto be proud of who we are,
to be proud of their blackness.
And it was hard because, again,not an experience that I've
(28:17):
had myself, and yet onethat was like, I want to
just go in and justerase the memory from him
and fix the thought processin the other child.
And yet all I could do was giveinformation and support and
(28:38):
hope that in future situations,he would remember that
he's powerful how he is,he's beautiful, how he is, and I
don't know that that stuckwith him.
But it's a thing likeall we can do is all we can do.
Yeah.
And gosh, like to to watchyour kiddo.
(28:58):
You know, your heartoutside of you kind of have
to experience somethinglike that.
I imagine is justso, so difficult.
And I'd love to kind ofhear more about the real side,
kind of what's going onin your brain when things like
that happen.
Because we are hereto talk about the real stories.
Right?
At first I've gotI've got a couple that are made.
(29:21):
So my just popping it,popping it in the oil.
Tell me, walk me throughthis piece right here.
How big is your are youusing a pen, a walk and a walk?
I'm Asian.
I have a walk.
You have one?
Yes, yes.
I usually do like I can do 4to 6, depending on the
size of the walk.
(29:43):
Okay.
If you can comfortablytake them there and then once
they start to sort of turnlike a light brownish.
Okay, then you're goingto want to turn them so they get
the same color onthe other side.
If you can see the ingredientsthrough the egg roll wrapper,
it's not done that okay.
Good to know.
So I'll pop mine in.
And as I do that I would loveto kind of hear a little bit
(30:05):
about when those things happen.
And if I hear you working reallyhard to kind of, you know, show
your kiddos the,kind of composed nature of,
of how you want them to be ableto respond when these
things happen, when theyexperience these really kind of
(30:26):
personal experiences.
I like to know kind of, for youas a parent, what's going on
in your mind in that moment?
Give us, give us the directionon what's really happening
behind the scenes for youand kind of how you're
navigating that for yourself.
Right?
So I definitely havea lot of choice words,
(30:47):
and I sort of imagine thescenario where I go to the other
parents and say, listen tothe toxicity you're filling
your child with, because nowthey're filling
my child with it, and that'snot okay.
And anything that is makingmy child feel less than is
not acceptable.
And then there's the part of methat's like, you know, you're
never going to havethat conversation because it's
(31:09):
going to fall on deaf ears.
And unfortunately,I can't change the parents
minds.
So then what can I do?
And so I will vent to people whomay or may not understand where
I'm coming from.
So my one of my bestfriends is white with two
blond hair, blue eyed beautieswho would never have any idea
(31:30):
the experiences that I have.
And yet she will listenwith a full heart and ask,
what do you need right now?
How can I be supportiveand kind of helping her
to educate her childrenon diversity in the world
and celebrating it is a thingthat I know that I can do.
And when I'm in experienceswhere other children, either
(31:52):
in my classroom or friendsof my kids, are having hard
moments like that, those arethe places where I can step in
and I can be supportive of themand I can build them up.
So I do try to focus onthe things that are within
my control.
I'm also human, and so sometimesI'm just trying and venting
and journaling and wishingthat this wasn't real.
(32:15):
And unfortunately, in the townwhere I am, there's a lot of.
I am I want to choose mywords carefully.
There's a lot of.
Differences in how people thinkand entitlement in that.
(32:39):
It's like a it's a free countrykind of thing.
Maybe for you it's a freecountry.
It's not. Yeah.
For some of our kiddos.
And that's where it's not okay.
If you are sending your childto the school where it's
supposed to be safe for allthose children, and your child
is making it hardfor other kids, what are we
doing?
We're in the.
And then it's like, I'm raisingmy kids in this world where
(33:00):
like, it's I, I want to beworried about them falling off
of their bikes.
I don't want to be worriedabout them feeling like they do
not belong, especiallyat school.
And so I think then it'sreally me going back
into my classroom and pouringthat love into my students.
And it's me reading bookswith my children that help them
(33:21):
to see the beautyin who they are.
It's me teaching them words ofaffirmation and then trying
to remember to say themto myself as well, and having
compassion for myselfin those moments because I'm
navigating uncharteredterritory and I don't know
(33:42):
how they do it.
I haven't so lost.
And so I think it's reallykind of a combination of all
those things.
We're finding our supportsystem, finding an outlet
where you can vent,and then finding an action item
that you can do that's goingto move you and your
family forward and know that noteverybody is going to get there.
Right? Yeah.
(34:02):
I heard you mentioned kind ofin the end, you pulled
that kind of especiallyat school and the importance
and in fitting in thereas well as it sounds like,
you know, feeling acceptedin that.
Why, why call that piece outas something, you know,
especially at school.
So our children spend more timeat school than they do in their
(34:24):
awake hours at home.
They go to school expecting tolearn something, expecting to be
taken care of, and parentssend their children to school
expecting that they're goingto be safe.
And in our world today, we'reliterally anything can go wrong
in a school building,as we've seen tragedy strikes
(34:45):
within the school buildings,and I'm sending my kids
to school hoping that they'regoing to be safe from
natural disaster,from terrorism, from hate crime.
And then in a place wherethey're with the same people
all day long, people who knowthem, places where they're home
(35:07):
working on taking risksand being who they are,
and growing and recognizingtheir strengths and their areas
for growth.
That's where they're supposedto feel sheltered.
They're supposed to feel safe.
They're supposed to feel likethis is a place where I can be,
and I don't have to be afraid.
And I know that I'mwelcomed here.
(35:30):
And that's the thing that Ireally strive for my own
classroom to be.
That's the reason I becamean educator, was to help
people feel safe, for they werecelebrated about who they are
and give them the opportunityto grow right in front of me,
right along with me.
Because I'm still learning andI think I have really high
expectations, not only asa parent, but as an educator,
(35:52):
in knowing what I'm doingto make sure that other
people's childrenare feeling safe.
I want to know that the adultsin the buildings where
my children are are doingtheir very best to make sure
that they're feeling safethere, too.
And if it's something whereit's like, well, I didn't have
any idea that this was going on,but why did you not
have an idea?
And I do understand that asa teacher, whether you have
(36:14):
a class of ten kids or 28,you don't have everything.
Yeah, but if you'retaking the time
to know your kids and you'reestablishing a place where
they feel safe, thenthey should feel comfortable
talking.
And when they're comfortabletalking, you will know.
And you find out thingsthat you maybe don't see,
but things that arehappening that you can do
(36:37):
something about,that you can make
the environment feel saferfor those people when they're
feeling hurt and yeah,I'm curious, like with your
journey thus far, in kindof navigating these,
these particular, you know,this particular journey that
maybe doesn't look likeeverybody else's, is there
(36:58):
any piece of it where you werelooking at it and, and thinking,
you know, this isn't what I wastold it was supposed
to look like or that, you know,I supposed to be doing right now
that you find kind of tryingto come into your head whether
you know it is from others,from society, from just your own
(37:19):
upbringing, that you'veyou found kind of yourself
battling with and tryingto navigate.
It so I think I wasa little naive when I
was becoming a parent ofmixed babies because I thought,
they're going to be beautiful,they're going to be talented,
they're going to be theseamazing humans and everyone,
(37:40):
which they are.
I'd like to say that, yeah,thank you so much.
Yeah.
And I think that Ithought that was going to
be enough. And for me it is.
I think I'm constantly lookingfor things that other people
see as a flaw in my children.
(38:02):
And when I do look for it,I find it.
So sometimes I'll heareven my my mother sometimes will
say things that she doesn't meanto be offensive in any way.
And yet the impactthat it has on me or on
my children.
(38:22):
Yeah, it's hurtful.
And I think that's the case,unfortunately, because a
lot of people, because theydon't realize that the things
that they're sayingcan be hurtful.
And I think that was the thing.
I just wasn't really I didn'tthink it was going to happen.
And I was kind of like,oh, there's no way
we're going to be in a placewhere our kids aren't just loved
(38:43):
and celebrated, and all the timepeople are like, oh my gosh,
there's so amazing.
There are people who see thingsand wrong in my kids, and I see
wrong things.
And I think, of courseI see wrong in my kids.
And yet the wrong in themdoes not define who they are.
And I have found other peopledefining children, adults too.
(39:05):
But children based ontheir behavior or based on
a meltdown based ona spontaneous decision
to do a cartwheelin a parking lot, like there's
people and people will associatethose negative behaviors with
the child's personality.
And then it's like, well,it's because it's a single mom,
(39:28):
or it's because they'remixed kids.
It's because they're black.
It's because the parentsaren't doing enough at home.
All these things thatit's like, no, the kid just did
a cartwheel in the parking lot.
That has nothing to do withthat actually does have
something to do with whothey are.
They're they do parkourlike they're athletes.
But there's a big piece of mewho thinks they should just be
(39:53):
able to be, and theirpeople are going to love them
no matter what.
And yet if you don't understandthe whole child and you see
the one behavior and youautomatically assume that
that's what the life ofthe child is, then you're
missing out on so much beautyin this world.
And I feel like I seea lot of people noticing
(40:14):
those things.
And it's not justin my kids, it's I see it in
students, too, but it'sdefinitely a thing that I didn't
recognize before us,or maybe a sign and didn't
realize how problematic it wasuntil it was my own kids.
Do you think for youthere was like a really
big moment that like that momentthat some of these things
(40:36):
started to click for youand maybe your perspective
shifted?
Oh, and I think.
I it's kind of hearingsomething like, oh well that's
just daunting or wellthat's just Zander.
(40:59):
That's just how they are.
That's just who they arein a negative concept
like context.
Sorry.
Okay.
That have kind of made me think.
Think.
Or realize that that was evena thing that people were doing.
And honestly, the hardest,the hardest things to watch,
(41:21):
though, were those moments when,when teachers were saying
those things about students and,my thought was, what if
somebody's saying thisabout my kid?
And no matter what student it isthat's being talked about,
that somebody's child?
And so I think it was reallyin the classroom or in meetings
rather than I startedto realize that that was
(41:42):
happening.
And that's when I feel likeI became alert to it
in my children because it'sit was kind of like, oh, well,
you're not going to getanything out of that kid.
And then I'm like, challengeaccepted.
Like, let's go.
Yeah.
I really think that it wasit was a lot in the classroom
(42:02):
that sort of opened my eyesto what was happening
with my own children.
And then and sometimesit's just like, you know, I
don't think that we can haveDante and Zander over here
today because they don'tclean up their wrappers
when they eat something.
And then my thought is, will do.
Did you tell them take upyour wrappers.
(42:25):
And if you know, yes, weshould assume that children
just know.
And also children sometimesdon't remember.
And so I say pick upyour wrapper and they pick it
up and go throw it away.
Problem solved.
And then if it happens againthen they say, hey, remember
we need to pick up that wrapper,but they don't do that piece.
(42:45):
I feel like it's a lot of timeswhen there's one thing
that's done wrong, thenit's like, yeah, no, we
we're not doing this anymorebecause they didn't do X,
Y, and Z where a conversationwas not had with either them
or myself to know that there wasa problem in the first place.
So we weren't necessarily giventhe opportunity to rectify it.
And that's a frustrating pieceto that.
(43:07):
I also wasn't ready for it.
I just thought we all haveconversations with people
and stuff goes wrongand then we work to fix it.
And that piece does notalways happen.
There. Yeah.
And like you said, itkind of almost is all
or nothing.
And it being kind of moreof a character attack versus
maybe some grace and somecompassion for the fact that
(43:28):
these are, you know,kids that are ten and under
that are still learningand experiencing the world
and figuring outwhat their place is in it,
what what it's like to bein the world, what it's like to
have expectations,and be mindful.
I mean, gosh, if if our tenyear olds, our eight year olds
(43:50):
were able to be as mindful aswe would want it, I mean,
goodness, there's there's adultsthat, you know,
I look at and go,I wish you were you were
also practicingmore mindfulness.
But to have that expectationof these little kiddos
and then have it be like an allor nothing definition I can
imagine is just so hurtfulas as the parent who is working
(44:13):
really hard to to raisegood human beings and ones
that are celebrated and seen forfor their awesomeness, joy.
So I'm curious, are thereany kind of insights
or resources or things that ifyou could go back in time,
(44:36):
that you would tell yourselfto prepare or to share
with others that are maybeexperiencing similar things?
What what would you shareor give back in those ways?
And I think this also appliesto all parents weddings.
In particular, I felt like I'ma mix baby.
(44:58):
I can handle raisingmixed babies, and I was
excited for it.
And I was like, look how muchdiversity there live under
my roof.
And it was going to be amazing.
And I think the thingthat I really had
to knock myself down,a few things on it with that
I don't know everythingthat's going to happen, I don't
I yes, I'm a mixed baby inthat I'm not my children,
(45:20):
and I didn't haveall of the same experiences
as them.
So I think it's reallybeing able to separate yourself
from your tiny personand saying, I, I am not
this person.
I did not have this experience.
So I think a lot of timessomething that's harmful is
when parents say like, oh,you're fine.
Like, I've been there.
(45:41):
I know what you're dealing withand it's not the end of
the world or, you know, my like,if I were to say to my kids
like, yeah, I was a mixedbaby too.
So I know mixed babieshave issues in the
school system.
I don't know that because Ididn't have those difficulties.
I didn't have people sayinghurtful things to me.
I did have people usingmicroaggressions that I didn't
(46:03):
realize were microaggressionsuntil I became educated on what
they were.
And some really oh, before youmove on, could you?
Actually, for thosethat don't know what
microaggressionsare, can you just give us like
a little snippet?
Yeah. Of course.
So a point, for example,is my kids here earlier
we talked about how hehas dreads.
Right.
And something thatcan be harmful to a child
(46:26):
is when you're a girl or toany person of color
is when you're treating themlike what they are is not normal
in a way that's notlike you wouldn't
do it to somebody who issomebody else, right?
So you wouldn't just go upto some random person, be like,
oh my God, let me touchyour hair.
And people will do that to you.
Lots of times to black people,because black people
(46:46):
have beautiful hair, Aand B, it's styled differently
and it's different from whatwe expect.
Because it's it's differentfrom what we have. Right.
And so we want to see it.
We want to touch it,we want to feel it,
but also know that's invadingtheir personal space.
So you would not go upto a white person and say,
let me touch your hair.
Let me, let me see your braids.
Let me.
Is this real?
(47:07):
Like those kinds of things thatyou don't realize are harmful.
And yeah, that can be anotherexample is, you know, saying
when a person is talkingand their dialect is different
from yours, telling them thatthey're wrong or telling
them that they're in any waynot educated because they're
(47:29):
not using correct grammarwhere correct grammar came from,
a book written by a bunchof white guys like
incorrect grammar where theywere born or in their home
exists, right?
Like their own ability to code,which is this superpower, right?
(47:50):
Where I have to speak thisway at school and this way
at home.
And I can merge the twosometimes, but it's really
like knowing another languageand yet telling them
that they're wrong about it isharmful. Right?
And that's another thingwhere you don't think
that you're doinganything wrong.
A lot of timesthe microaggressions
are rooted in what is consideredthe norm, but the norm,
(48:12):
according to him, is what wereally need to think about.
Where did this norm come from?
And if this norm came froma group of white guys, that's
not the norm, because noteverybody is a group of
white guys. Yeah.
And who makes you theauthority, right, to determine
the norm for somebody else'sunique life and life
experiences.
(48:33):
Right?
Absolutely.
And I, I did not meanto cut you off.
I just I thought that wassuper important.
I wanted to make sure that ourlisteners, for those that don't,
aren't aware of whatmicroaggressions are, could be
a little bit more informed.
So thank you for being willingto kind of take a slight
detour there, actually.
So I was thinking about thisearlier that so there were
(48:55):
experiences that I've had too,that also were harmful
to me as a child,but didn't really I didn't
realize it until I was an adult.
So when I was in.
Fourth grade, maybe it waselementary school for sure.
I when we had a culturalcelebration day at school
and my teacher gave me agrass skirt and the lay to wear
(49:24):
because I looked like I couldbe Hawaiian and I.
So we're workingwith assumptions.
There and I weary.
Yeah, because I was infourth grade, it was like, cool,
I get to wear this coolflower thing.
But then I looked at picturesone day and I was like,
gosh, like, why did you thinkthat was okay?
(49:46):
Because nobody told me itwasn't right.
Yeah.
And it's kind of like,there's no like, just because
my eyes are slanteddoes not mean that I look
Hawaiian.
And also, what does it meanto look Hawaiian?
And, so like I thinkabout this a lot
when I'm teaching in Spanishbecause somebody will
look at people and be like,that was not Spanish.
(50:08):
Well, first of all, no,they're from Puerto Rico.
That's not Spanish.
They're word Rican, but theyspeak Spanish.
No, they don't realize whyI'm here.
Okay, okay.
So yeah.
So I think it's a lot of timesthese like those assumptions
that are being made and then thegeneralization and saying like,
oh well that's nice.
(50:28):
You could be Hawaiian.
Where are you?
Chinese and Japanese.
See I would be embarrassed.
Like, right.
Why is it only one or the other.
And I think, I thinkthat's a huge thing that
I didn't just I grew upthinking, okay, like
nobody knows any better.
And then I grew upand I was like, how come nobody
knows any better?
(50:49):
That's great.
Like, what is that?
So I think it's just thatthat piece of like
really educating yourself onwho people are and knowing
that it's they can be celebratedin ways that are
exciting for them and that makethem feel like this is me
and I love who I am, and I wantto share this with you,
(51:11):
rather than the thing wherethat they feel like they have
to, like, kind of hold back inand not be able to share.
So I think it's kind of simplewhen you ask me about, you know,
what are those thingsthat I want to tell other
people, it really know who thepeople are and celebrate them,
and also recognize that yourexperience is not the same
as theirs.
Yeah.
(51:32):
And almost sounds likeI wonder if, you know, part of
that is startingand figuring out kind of what
your own biases are firstand figuring out, you know,
what does that look likein your lens?
And then being able to thenhave that conversation
with your kids, as I imaginethat's a really
hard conversation to haveif you're not even, you know,
your own biases and kind ofwhat's going on
(51:54):
based off of yourown experiences, your own life,
what you've been taught, etc.,you know you're not completely
cognizant of and you'rejust kind of going through life,
like you said, because Idon't know any different.
This is all I've seen.
And so I didn't know thatthis was, you know,
inappropriate or whatnot.
It sounds like could be reallybeneficial.
(52:15):
Yeah, I, I think so a lot.
So we look at sorry you thoughtyou were.
Oh no.
You're good.
Go for it.
I'd love to hear it.
So I'm thinking about how,a lot of times we think
too, like what?
What what can I say that's goingto be the right thing
to say, right?
Or you're like, I'm afraidto talk because I don't want to
(52:37):
be offensive or, you know,I don't want to
ask the questions because it'snot their job to educate me.
I need to go and get educatedmyself.
So some of the conversationsthat we need to have
with ourselves are those thatmaybe you need a journaling
page.
I actually have a journalthat I can send your way, like,
I want to say it's likeeight pages maybe that have
(53:00):
different ways to kind of divein to who you are in terms
of your cultural identity.
And then once you'rekind of feeling like, okay, I'm
comfortable with, you know,recognizing who I am
and talking aboutthe ways that I the way that I
represent myself, the ways thatI celebrate where I am now,
I can start to look at howI'm looking at other people.
(53:22):
And there are unconsciousbiases, tests that you can
take online, where it's likea series of images and asks you
to choose based on specificquestions or stereotypes
and things like that,where it's like, you know,
which person looks likethey would be friendly,
which person looks likethey would be dangerous,
who would you be afraid of?
I think the big thingis being honest with yourself.
(53:44):
When you're having thoseconversations or doing those
journaling pages or takingthose tests, really
answering them truthfully.
Because I think a lot of timeswe know that something is wrong.
So we speak around it to say,you know, oh, well, I know that
I would be afraidof this person, but if I say
that I'm going to sound racist,so I need to not say that.
(54:07):
So you choose differently.
And that's not an honestconversation with yourself.
You're recognizing that youhave that unconscious bias,
but you're avoiding itby answering how you think
somebody wants you to answer.
And then you're saying, oh,I don't have the unconscious
biases or or the resultsthat hold true to what you're
actually experiencing.
(54:28):
Yeah, absolutely.
That's a great resource.
And I'd love to to link itdown too.
So again, all those thingsfor those folks that are
listening, we'll make sureget included.
In our show notes.
And so those are great resourcesto be able to start changing
this conversation and hopefullymaking this place, leaving
this place a better worldthan when we got here.
(54:51):
And, and helping kind of rewritesome of these journeys that,
our neighbors right next to usor you yourself might be
experiencing and peopleare unaware because there's not
enough conversation aboutthese things.
And that's whatwe're here to do.
We're here to have theseconversations to pull back
that curtain.
So here is my product.
(55:15):
Hopefully it it does well.
Oh goodness.
And just kind of what we'relooking for.
Yes.
No. So yes.
But also I feelthat differently.
I would have rolled it inso that it was like the flap
with the along the roleof the egg roll.
It looked like cutelittle person, you know,
(55:37):
like well below.
Yeah.
Hey, it's my interpretationof it was exactly what you
were going for, right?
Yes.
So I did.
I thought them like that.
A couple of pictures that I gotand I was like, oh, my gosh,
are we doing them wrong?
Because it's my at my house.
Like, I will roll themlike an egg roll.
(55:58):
My mom will make them flat,but more like yours
that look like an envelopewith like a rectangle rather
than like the square pocket.
So again, it's your it's how youhow you do it.
It's how you do it.
It's going to be backwith the same delicious flavor.
But I love that.
It's like you're my directionsfor them.
Here is your interpretationof them.
And this is what they look like.
(56:19):
And I'm like, oh, that's not howI make them.
But also they're goingto be delicious.
Yeah.
And and hey, you know,I can put it when I'm out the
pocket.
So all that to say, you know,the basic that's, that's
how we are.
Right.
The basic materials of usare, are fairly similar.
(56:41):
At the same time, we all areunique and different and we're
all just as amazing as an egg.
So that's, that's that's myspin on it.
I love all verythank you so much for being
willing to to chat with us todayand share a little bit
about your story and yourexperience.
Sure.
On on the real family.
(57:02):
So thank you.
If you or anyone that you knowis struggling with any of
the topics that we discussed intoday's episode, make sure
to check out our show notesfor support and resources.
You can get help.
Thanks again for joining uson today's episode of The
Real Family Eat.
If you're a parent readyto share your real life
(57:24):
parenting story, make sure toreach out to us and our website
found in the show notes.
And that goes for today's recipesocial media's support
and resources.
All of that can be foundin our show notes,
so make sure to check them outand make sure to follow, like,
share, subscribe, and stayup to date on all things
the real family.
(57:46):
I hope you'll join us next timefor more food for thought
and thoughtful food!Enjoy your eats!
That was really hurtful to hearthat my then second grader
was having an issue with achild saying, I don't believe
in Black Lives Matter.
Hey everyone, thanks forjoining me.
My name is Reesa and I'myour host.
(00:21):
We are talking to real familiesabout real stories here on the
real Family Eats, wherewe've got food for thought
and thoughtful food.
So let's eat.
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All right, everyone.
So my guest today is thelovely Sarah.
Sarah, thank you so muchfor joining us today.
My pleasure.
I'm so excited to be here.
Yes, I am so excited to hearyour story.
But first, for everyonewho does not know you like
I know you, which isreally well.
Can you introduceyourself for me?
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Of course.
So I am a mom, teacher, creator,and really awesome friend.
And I'm trying to figure outlife and be who I am as a human.
Apart from being an educator,being a parent.
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Because I feel like those rolesconsumed me in a way
that I finally had to startrecognizing that I was a person
before those things,and I am a person in addition
to those things.
Those things werethe only pieces that defined me.
So that's sort ofwhat my journey has been
all about, and helpingother people recognize that
they're not alone in thisparenting journey.
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Parenting is really hard.
And for those of youwho are parents, you know
that it comes with all thesechallenges that are not written
in any of the books that claimto be the guidebooks
to parenting that don'tactually fit for everyone.
And it’s kind of been a longjourney, I started
around the time of Covidwith a podcast, because
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what else was I to doduring the time when I was home
educating my children from homeand teaching from home,
I had a lot of timebecause I wasn't going anywhere
after what would havebeen work hours.
So I ended up finally decidingto dive into my creative side
and kind of reignite some piecesthat were missing
for a long time to sort oflay dormant for a while.
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And I started Raising Legaciespodcast where I had guests
like Your Lovely Self Reesa,and I had other people
on sharing their story specificto parenthood.
Each family's challengeswere different because
their situations were different.
So whether they became parentsby circumstance or they
became parents through adoptionor by choice, or they
were independent parents,everyone had a different
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story to share.
So that is sort of what got meworking publicly
on using my voice to connectwith people and let people
know that they were not alone.
I sort of took a breakfrom the podcast itself, and I'm
still working on someother projects, specifically
in writing right now, and Iwill share some of those things
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as I progress further in them.
Right now, they're sort of insome premature stages, but I
have published a couple of booksas well, and I have tried
to connect my audiencewith stories of either my own,
my children's, or a combinedexperience that will relate
to people whose storiesare not often told in books.
And that's where I am going now.
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Very cool.
So any of this stuff thatour readers might be
interested in, or mightbe useful or beneficial.
Shameless plug.
Where can we find them?
How can we find your book?
Tell us more.
Yeah, so you can find meon Instagram or on Facebook.
Rethink Legacy's podcast.
And my podcast is everywhere.
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The podcasts are heard.
So you can catch all ofthose episodes that I've done.
You can also reach outto Raising Legacy's podcast
at gmail.com, especially ifyou have a story that you'd
like to share.
As I start to plan for recordingepisodes this fall,
that would be.
I'm always looking for peopleto share their parenting stories
specifically, and I havecurrently two books
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and then several notebooksand journals that are available
on Amazon.
You can look under authorSarah Hall, which is a super
common name, so you may want togo directly from the link that I
will share.
With that, you can find my bothmy journals and the books
that I publish.
One of the books that I haveis actually in Spanish.
It's called Dos Navidad,and it was written to tell
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a story of a teenager who wasexperiencing his first
Christmas with divorced parents.
So it was actuallytwo Christmases and sort of what
some of the pain came along withthat sort of what the
experience did for him.
And it turned out to be one ofthose things that I didn't
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I didn't know that I needed towrite that story, but it was
something that I was working formy work on with my children,
for them to tell a storythat they could connect to.
When I was initiatingthe separation from
their father.
And then the other onewas a partnership with my
oldest son.
It's called Two Homes, and itwas written there for very young
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children to understandthat there is some normalization
in having two homes whereparents are separated,
or parents were nevermarried in the first place,
but you get to spend timeat each one.
And the common denominatoris the love that your parents
have for you.
And how you shouldcelebrate that.
It gives a perspectiveof like, here's what's happened.
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Here's what happens at my mom'shouse, here's what happens at
my dad's house, and howthe experiences are sort
of parallel, butthey're not the same.
And so then it comes backto the whole, both of my parents
love me, and it's a great onefor the reason that I
love that one so much is becauseDante was actually
an illustrator, so he waseight years old at the time,
and he drew the picturesfor him.
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And it's somethingwe really cherish because that
experience was was helpfulfor us to be able
to sort of bond through someof the hardship that came along
with separation.
But also we don't have a,traumatizing divorce situation
that has happened in our home.
It's been very peaceful,tranquil, loving, and the boys
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have not heard from much of it.
Thankfully, the biggest piecewas just that there was
some newness surroundingnow going to a different place
to visit daddy.
So I think, yeah,a lot of the pain
was coming from my and thinking,what are they going
to experience?
What's going to happenwith them?
Are they going to hurtfrom this?
What do I need to doto make sure that my children
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don't suffer and so this wasa great way for us to kind of
come together in that moment.
And I again, it wasanother thing that I didn't
know that I needed myself.
Wonderful.
And like Sara said, we willdefinitely be linking all
that in our show notes.
So make sure to take a peekat those if that's
something that resonateswith you.
So thank you so much for sharingthat piece of it.
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And sharing it sounds likeyour heart's, with us as well.
So thank you.
Okay, before we get started,because I absolutely want
to hear more of your story.
And I know, you know,you've got lots of experience.
So we're just going to talkjust a snippet of some of that
experience today.
But before we do that, can youshare with us what recipe
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are you going to teach me todayand what why did you pick
this one boy?
So I chose Martha Bok, which isa Japanese egg roll
from Indonesia.
My father is from Indonesia,and it's one of the foods that I
remember him cooking for mewhen I was really young
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and before my own parentsseparated and my mom
learned to cook the same food.
But sometimes it was better.
Okay, that, but it wasit was really it was amazing how
there was a thing that I thoughtthat only my dad could do.
And my mom, who raisedfour children independently
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and worked two jobs and was busya lot.
One of the things that shealways did was make sure that
we were eating and that we wereeating well, and so that was
one thing that sort ofstuck with me my whole life,
along with the comfortthat the food itself brings,
because it's got that crunchand it's savory and salty,
like all at one time.
And it's, it's it's reallycomforting, but it's
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comforting in an emotionalway as well, because it was
one of those staple foodsin our home that was like,
we're going to eat. We needeveryone coming together.
It's always a dish that I passwhenever I'm invited somewhere.
It's easy for me to make,and it's a fun family
experience.
My boys have helped me for rollthe egg roll wrappers up
and stuff for me,and it's a it's a big deal
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across families under likebetween my siblings and myself
and Marketo.
So love it.
Okay, what packed into itand it's really yummy.
Yes. Okay.
So with that so I haveahead of time.
So I browned our ground meatsand with the garlic
with our eggs.
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And now it sounds like what do Ido after, after that I've got my
my scallions.
Here am my mixing that.
Do they go separately?
Tell me more.
So you do want to mix themright into the meat.
You do want to make surethat the meat cools first
because you want the onionto have.
It's not.
It's flavor, right.
It's only if you cook themalongside it.
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Some of that flavor kind of goesinto the meat, and you want it
to sort of stand out separately.
So you are going to mix them in.
I just dump the green onionsright into the meat bowl
or drop it in a bowl.
I can't have it in a bowl. Yeah.
Perfect.
Yeah.
So just mix it rightinto your bowl and
you can move it around.
Make sure the onions are kindof evenly spread throughout all
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of the meat.
Perfect.
Okay, so while I'm mixingthis I'd love to know.
So I know today we're goingto talk a little bit about
the uniqueness that you havein your family where you've got
mixed babies and and some ofthe challenges that can come up
with that, that maybeother families can relate to,
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or maybe they've they'veexperienced themselves.
I'd love to hear more about thatexperience and maybe some of
the challenges, as well assome of just the joys that come
along with, with that as well.
And mixing cultures.
Joy.
So I didn't mention beforewhen I talked about sort
of who I am.
I said I was an educator,I didn't tell you what I teach,
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so I teach Spanish.
And as I mentioned before it,my father is from Indonesia.
I grew up not knowingthe language, and because
my parents had separated,I didn't have much opportunity.
Once I decided it was somethingI wanted to actually get that
experience.
So it was something I hadto sort of start learning on
my own.
And I didn't do thatuntil college.
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So now I'm very low inproficiency and high
and interest, and soI want to learn.
And that is somethingthat I recognized in college
when I was studying abroad,I was in Argentina
when I realized there was abig piece of me
that was missing,and it was that I hadn't
connected with my culture.
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And in fact, when I wasreally young, I was sort
of ashamed of the culturebecause I thought, well,
my dad doesn't look like me,and my dad's skin is darker
than mine, and I didn't seea lot of people who looked
like me.
I grew up in a pretty diversecommunity, so there were
quite a bit of Latinos,and we had lots of black people
who were either coming fromAsian families or they were
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African Americans.
There were mixes of the two.
Lots of people from Puerto Ricoin our community.
And then, there was meand there was no one who looked
like me, this Asian Americanlittle girl who could be
white passing.
But, you know, my mom is white.
The dad is not.
And it was kind of it waskind of hard to find somebody
who was anything like me exceptmy siblings.
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And so that piece was somethingthat once I grew up and realized
I had that because being young,I didn't necessarily know
that was a struggle for meuntil I got a little older
and I was like, wow.
Like, I think I could havebenefited from having some
representation or havingsome people who were like me,
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and I wanted to commit myselfto making sure that my own
children did not feel that,because no matter what, and when
they found another IndonesianAmerican man to have
children with my kids were goingto look different from me.
So that was a big piece.
And when my kids were born,their father and I just is black
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decided that we wantedto make sure they were
surrounded by diversity,that they were well-educated
on people who were like them,exposed to people who were
different from them,but that they did have that
representation availableto them.
The big struggles can beI had one time at the doctor's
office where I am the one whotirelessly fills out
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the paperwork for the kids to doall their appointments.
I take them everywhere,and the doctor looked at me
and asked me if I wastheir bio mom, and I was
like, yes, I am like friendly.
But also there wassomething like in the notes
that she was looking at.
She's like, I just wantedto make sure I could ask you
about this thing.
But it was like, why?
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Why wouldn't I be their mom?
And that piece was kind ofhard for me, and I've had
other times the biggestI think the, the bigger
challenge for me is when there'san experience that they're
having that I can't relate to.
So specifically in our schooldistrict, it's a predominantly
white school district, and theythere are other children of
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color in both of their classes,but there's a lot of times where
they're experiences that they'rehaving that they can't
necessarily relate to theirclassmates in, or they're having
a different type of struggle.
And because their lensis different and they their lens
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is different from mine.
And so when I try to teach themabout perspective and teach them
how to work through some ofthe challenges that come along
with being mixed children in apredominantly white setting,
I was, yes, a mixed children,but it was not a predominantly
white setting.
So our experiencesare not the same in that matter,
and even their fathercan necessarily give them
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that support either because hishis experiences were different.
So I think in that in general,I think the hard thing
as a parent where you wantto protect your child,
you want to give themopportunity, but you also
want to make sure thatthey have skills that they need
to work through some ofthose pieces.
And yet, since you haven'tlived them yourself, you don't
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necessarily know what to offerand what might be helpful
for them.
And I think that that'sprobably where I struggle
the most is themwanting to relate to them,
helping them find who they are.
But they're not going to be me,and I don't want them to be,
absolutely.
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Before we go on.
Okay, I've got my my meat mixed.
Am I taking a rapper?
Can you tell me what do I donext?
Well, you're going totake your rapper and you're
going to turn it so that it'sin a diamond shape.
Okay?
They come in squares, they rollrappers, and you want to turn it
so that it's like a diamondyou're going to scoop.
I usually take a tablespoon,but it's a generous one.
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And I'll go okay,into the middle of that girl.
Rapper.
You'll take the bottom piecethat's facing you and
you're going to push it forwardto cover the meat. Okay.
Then you're going to takethe two side pieces
and slap them in.
Doesn't matter which onecomes first okay.
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And then that top piece isso it kind of is going to
look like a house.
The square with a littletriangle on top.
Now you're just going to roll itso that the triangle gets
wrapped around the whole self.
And what I usually do is justtake a small bit of warm
water and dab it on my finger,and use that to seal
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the egg roll.
If you wish, you could also uselike an egg wash.
I've never done that,but if you find this recipe
online it will tell youto do that.
I always do it with water.
Gotcha.
Okay, I will try again.
My guide split openbut continue.
I'd love to hear morewhile I try to figure out
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how to perfect my rollingtechnique.
So I heard you mentionedin there that, you know, part of
some of the difficultiesis your lines is a little bit
different.
Your story, even thoughit was also, you know,
mix, mix baby yourself, it'sa different story.
It's a different storythan their fathers.
And so I'm curious what are someof the things that for
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you folks, you sat downand said, hey, this is
really importantfor me to be able to be able
to provide a space that theyfeel seen, that they feel safe.
And how are you addressingsome of those things?
Boy so this is.
A great question.
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I love it and I'mchallenged by it.
So one thing as a teacher,when you I've been teaching for
15 years, and so whenI'm teaching, I'm looking
at other people'schildren, like, how would I want
my child to be taught?
Right.
And what would I wantsomebody to be doing for
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my child?
And how would I want my childto respond to me?
So when I'm in the classroom,I have the expectation
that students will speak with meprecisely, and also that
they will advocatefor themselves.
And a big discrepancyin the classroom, especially.
I teach in middle school,especially in the middle school,
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people often think that a childspeaking back as an adult is
then being disrespectful.
Whereas if a child is doingsomething that warrants
different, redirecting andI redirect a child, but I was
mistaken in what was happening,I want the child to let me
know that so that I'm more awaremoving forward.
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Other people sometimes thinkthat that's if the adult
says you're wrong, you're wrong,and that's absolutely not
it for me.
So when I had my own childcome home and tell me about an
experience that he hadin his classroom where he had
come back from the bathroomand the teacher was telling him
that he needed to go and getback to work, and he was
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wasting his time.
And he got a negative dojo markbecause he was off task.
But he told me when he got homehe didn't know what the task was
and that when he had come backfrom the bathroom, he had asked
a friend and the friendwas telling him, but the teacher
perceived him talking tothe friend as him
being off task.
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And so I spoke with himand with her about it and just
sort of went dancing.
Know that there's a wayto advocate for yourself.
There's a way to talk withthe teacher and
if you don't know what to do,ask the adult.
Because sometimes when you'retalking with your friends,
it might not look like toa teacher that you're.
On task.
And for me, that's a hard piece,because why does my child
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have to make it look likehe's on task if he is on task?
Because what does that mean?
And it does he have to look likehe's on task because he's
typically a problem causerin the classroom.
And I wonder that all the time,because I get negative notes
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sometimes and wonder, like,is this a thing that happened
4 or 5, six times?
And finally the teacherwas like, you're getting
a mark for it.
Or is this a thing where it'slike first time and she's
nipping it in the bud,but it's an unnecessary nipping
because it wasn't somethingthat he actually did wrong.
And how do you teach a childwhen something is wrong in the
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teacher's eyes, but notnecessarily in the parents,
because of the waythat the parents are raising
their children or becauseof what the teacher considers
disrespect.
And so when she andI spoke about it, I let her know
if he says something to youor uses a tone that is perceived
disrespectful, that'sabsolutely not okay.
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But I do want you to be awarethat I spoke with him about
standing up for himselfwhen he's called out
for something that he didnot do wrong.
And there is a differencebetween lying about what
you did wrong, and he hasto own it when he does mess up.
But also in cases like that,he was afraid to say something
because he thought that he wasgoing to be disrespectful,
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and that was definitely nothis aim.
But I think that a lot of timesteachers can look at children
with an unconscious bias.
And because my childrenare mixed in a predominantly
white district, that's alwaysa fear of mine, that somebody's
going to look at my childand think, you're not white,
and so you're going tobe causing trouble or with
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a stereotype that comes along,unfortunately, with being
a person of color.
And I hate that so much for himbecause another thing
that his father said to meand to him during one of these
conversations about behavior inthe classroom was, look at the
image that you are portrayingright now.
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You know, he's by himself.
These like jeans that he woreto school, he really liked them.
With Harris currently in dreads,most children in his school
keep a short haircut, or some ofthe boys in his class have like
longer cuts.
But it was like long,straight hair.
So he stands outbecause his hair is different.
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And because of that piece,it draws a different type
of attention to him and he wantsthe dreads.
It's a part of who he is andhe likes it.
So I encourage that.
And yet there's some truthto the fact that when you
stand out, you don't alwaysget the benefit of the doubt.
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And that's hard for me to teachto a child, because as an adult,
I struggle to wrap my headaround it.
And I have seencases where those these
small things that arebeing addressed by teachers
are being addressed towardspecific children
that have either the sameskin tone or they are not
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the athletes or they are notgirls, or they are
not always like there arecultural identifiers that are
100% outside of a child'scontrol, and yet they're
what adults are usingto determine who gets
what treatment.
And that's what I'm workingas an educator to undo.
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But I also have to sort oflet my child know and have him
kind of be on his guardabout how people are going
to perceive him as a humandifferently because of what
he looks like.
And I hate that so much becauseit's 2024.
Why is this what we're doing?
And yet it's what we're doing?
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Yeah.
And gosh, I mean, how how haveyou folks gone about having that
conversation with your kids?
You know, when you yourselfare looking at it and going,
I don't understand it.
It doesn't make sensein my brain.
I wish I could stealthis from you.
At the same time acknowledgingthat much of these behaviors,
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much of these mindsetsare things that we can't
physically go into someone'sbrain and change it and make
it better.
We can't make their behaviorchange.
So how do you have thatconversation?
How have you folks been kind ofnavigating that really,
really tough place to be in?
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And unfortunately, we've had tohave conversations that I think
are above the typical eightand ten year old level of
typical comprehension.
Our children understand it,and I hate that they have to
leave it very honest with themanytime they ask the question.
And also, their father hasshared stories about him
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being profiled and pulled overbecause he fit the description
of a crime and things like thatin his car.
And we don't shareviolent stories,
but if they come up in the newsand my children hear about them,
we'll ask questions about whatthey know, they'll hear
what they've heard, and we'llgive them as much information
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as we can.
And then there's suchan emotional piece to it that
the only thing we can dois educate them on the concept
of working on whatwe can control in those
situations, and a big,a big story that we shared
with them was how one of one ofmy children, they both have
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the same shirt, but one ofthem had it on at school one day
and it was these two black boysand it said black feature on it,
and it was this beautifullike from target.
I love target, so it wasfrom target.
And in their section,during Black History Month,
it was a shirt that wascelebrating diversity,
which also those shirtsneed to be on sale
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all year long.
But they weren't whenI bought one.
I bought one for each of them,and the one of them
was wearing it full and he hadthe person in his class,
a white boy, say to a friend,audibly like, write your shot
down.
Hey, I don't believe inBlack Lives Matter.
And the shirt didn't sayBlack Lives Matter, but that's
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what he did from that. Andso Dante came home and
he said this, this personsaid this to me.
How can you not believe in that?
Like it's a real thing.
So we had to talk abouthow there are people
who believe that Black LivesMatter should not exist because
all lives matter, and yetthey're missing the point
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because black lives matteras much as the other lives.
If we're going to sayall lives matter, so all lives
matter until the black ones winsand equal life to their white
counterparts.
And that was hurtful for himbecause he's like this kid
supposed to be, you know,he's my hero.
He's a black me.
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I don't think they werenecessarily good friends.
It was still relatively earlyin the school year when he was
wearing that shirt,but still, like they had been
around each other well enough tolong enough to be acquainted
with one another and shouldbe able to feel safe there
with each other all day,every day.
And that was reallyhurtful to hear that my
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then second grader was havingan issue with a child saying,
I don't believe in Black LivesMatter and my my heart broke and
I had to just kind ofbe very matter of fact.
And also let him know thatwhile we can't change the minds
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of other people, what we arein control of is how we respond
to what people are sayingand what we can do
with our time, with our power,with our voices, is continue
to lift people out, continueto celebrate them in their
differences, continueto be proud of who we are,
to be proud of their blackness.
And it was hard because, again,not an experience that I've
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had myself, and yet onethat was like, I want to
just go in and justerase the memory from him
and fix the thought processin the other child.
And yet all I could do was giveinformation and support and
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hope that in future situations,he would remember that
he's powerful how he is,he's beautiful, how he is, and I
don't know that that stuckwith him.
But it's a thing likeall we can do is all we can do.
Yeah.
And gosh, like to to watchyour kiddo.
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You know, your heartoutside of you kind of have
to experience somethinglike that.
I imagine is justso, so difficult.
And I'd love to kind ofhear more about the real side,
kind of what's going onin your brain when things like
that happen.
Because we are hereto talk about the real stories.
Right?
At first I've gotI've got a couple that are made.
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So my just popping it,popping it in the oil.
Tell me, walk me throughthis piece right here.
How big is your are youusing a pen, a walk and a walk?
I'm Asian.
I have a walk.
You have one?
Yes, yes.
I usually do like I can do 4to 6, depending on the
size of the walk.
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Okay.
If you can comfortablytake them there and then once
they start to sort of turnlike a light brownish.
Okay, then you're goingto want to turn them so they get
the same color onthe other side.
If you can see the ingredientsthrough the egg roll wrapper,
it's not done that okay.
Good to know.
So I'll pop mine in.
And as I do that I would loveto kind of hear a little bit
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about when those things happen.
And if I hear you working reallyhard to kind of, you know, show
your kiddos the,kind of composed nature of,
of how you want them to be ableto respond when these
things happen, when theyexperience these really kind of
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personal experiences.
I like to know kind of, for youas a parent, what's going on
in your mind in that moment?
Give us, give us the directionon what's really happening
behind the scenes for youand kind of how you're
navigating that for yourself.
Right?
So I definitely havea lot of choice words,
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and I sort of imagine thescenario where I go to the other
parents and say, listen tothe toxicity you're filling
your child with, because nowthey're filling
my child with it, and that'snot okay.
And anything that is makingmy child feel less than is
not acceptable.
And then there's the part of methat's like, you know, you're
never going to havethat conversation because it's
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going to fall on deaf ears.
And unfortunately,I can't change the parents
minds.
So then what can I do?
And so I will vent to people whomay or may not understand where
I'm coming from.
So my one of my bestfriends is white with two
blond hair, blue eyed beautieswho would never have any idea
(31:30):
the experiences that I have.
And yet she will listenwith a full heart and ask,
what do you need right now?
How can I be supportiveand kind of helping her
to educate her childrenon diversity in the world
and celebrating it is a thingthat I know that I can do.
And when I'm in experienceswhere other children, either
(31:52):
in my classroom or friendsof my kids, are having hard
moments like that, those arethe places where I can step in
and I can be supportive of themand I can build them up.
So I do try to focus onthe things that are within
my control.
I'm also human, and so sometimesI'm just trying and venting
and journaling and wishingthat this wasn't real.
(32:15):
And unfortunately, in the townwhere I am, there's a lot of.
I am I want to choose mywords carefully.
There's a lot of.
Differences in how people thinkand entitlement in that.
(32:39):
It's like a it's a free countrykind of thing.
Maybe for you it's a freecountry.
It's not. Yeah.
For some of our kiddos.
And that's where it's not okay.
If you are sending your childto the school where it's
supposed to be safe for allthose children, and your child
is making it hardfor other kids, what are we
doing?
We're in the.
And then it's like, I'm raisingmy kids in this world where
(33:00):
like, it's I, I want to beworried about them falling off
of their bikes.
I don't want to be worriedabout them feeling like they do
not belong, especiallyat school.
And so I think then it'sreally me going back
into my classroom and pouringthat love into my students.
And it's me reading bookswith my children that help them
(33:21):
to see the beautyin who they are.
It's me teaching them words ofaffirmation and then trying
to remember to say themto myself as well, and having
compassion for myselfin those moments because I'm
navigating uncharteredterritory and I don't know
(33:42):
how they do it.
I haven't so lost.
And so I think it's reallykind of a combination of all
those things.
We're finding our supportsystem, finding an outlet
where you can vent,and then finding an action item
that you can do that's goingto move you and your
family forward and know that noteverybody is going to get there.
Right? Yeah.
(34:02):
I heard you mentioned kind ofin the end, you pulled
that kind of especiallyat school and the importance
and in fitting in thereas well as it sounds like,
you know, feeling acceptedin that.
Why, why call that piece outas something, you know,
especially at school.
So our children spend more timeat school than they do in their
(34:24):
awake hours at home.
They go to school expecting tolearn something, expecting to be
taken care of, and parentssend their children to school
expecting that they're goingto be safe.
And in our world today, we'reliterally anything can go wrong
in a school building,as we've seen tragedy strikes
(34:45):
within the school buildings,and I'm sending my kids
to school hoping that they'regoing to be safe from
natural disaster,from terrorism, from hate crime.
And then in a place wherethey're with the same people
all day long, people who knowthem, places where they're home
(35:07):
working on taking risksand being who they are,
and growing and recognizingtheir strengths and their areas
for growth.
That's where they're supposedto feel sheltered.
They're supposed to feel safe.
They're supposed to feel likethis is a place where I can be,
and I don't have to be afraid.
And I know that I'mwelcomed here.
(35:30):
And that's the thing that Ireally strive for my own
classroom to be.
That's the reason I becamean educator, was to help
people feel safe, for they werecelebrated about who they are
and give them the opportunityto grow right in front of me,
right along with me.
Because I'm still learning andI think I have really high
expectations, not only asa parent, but as an educator,
(35:52):
in knowing what I'm doingto make sure that other
people's childrenare feeling safe.
I want to know that the adultsin the buildings where
my children are are doingtheir very best to make sure
that they're feeling safethere, too.
And if it's something whereit's like, well, I didn't have
any idea that this was going on,but why did you not
have an idea?
And I do understand that asa teacher, whether you have
(36:14):
a class of ten kids or 28,you don't have everything.
Yeah, but if you'retaking the time
to know your kids and you'reestablishing a place where
they feel safe, thenthey should feel comfortable
talking.
And when they're comfortabletalking, you will know.
And you find out thingsthat you maybe don't see,
but things that arehappening that you can do
(36:37):
something about,that you can make
the environment feel saferfor those people when they're
feeling hurt and yeah,I'm curious, like with your
journey thus far, in kindof navigating these,
these particular, you know,this particular journey that
maybe doesn't look likeeverybody else's, is there
(36:58):
any piece of it where you werelooking at it and, and thinking,
you know, this isn't what I wastold it was supposed
to look like or that, you know,I supposed to be doing right now
that you find kind of tryingto come into your head whether
you know it is from others,from society, from just your own
(37:19):
upbringing, that you'veyou found kind of yourself
battling with and tryingto navigate.
It so I think I wasa little naive when I
was becoming a parent ofmixed babies because I thought,
they're going to be beautiful,they're going to be talented,
they're going to be theseamazing humans and everyone,
(37:40):
which they are.
I'd like to say that, yeah,thank you so much.
Yeah.
And I think that Ithought that was going to
be enough. And for me it is.
I think I'm constantly lookingfor things that other people
see as a flaw in my children.
(38:02):
And when I do look for it,I find it.
So sometimes I'll heareven my my mother sometimes will
say things that she doesn't meanto be offensive in any way.
And yet the impactthat it has on me or on
my children.
(38:22):
Yeah, it's hurtful.
And I think that's the case,unfortunately, because a
lot of people, because theydon't realize that the things
that they're sayingcan be hurtful.
And I think that was the thing.
I just wasn't really I didn'tthink it was going to happen.
And I was kind of like,oh, there's no way
we're going to be in a placewhere our kids aren't just loved
(38:43):
and celebrated, and all the timepeople are like, oh my gosh,
there's so amazing.
There are people who see thingsand wrong in my kids, and I see
wrong things.
And I think, of courseI see wrong in my kids.
And yet the wrong in themdoes not define who they are.
And I have found other peopledefining children, adults too.
(39:05):
But children based ontheir behavior or based on
a meltdown based ona spontaneous decision
to do a cartwheelin a parking lot, like there's
people and people will associatethose negative behaviors with
the child's personality.
And then it's like, well,it's because it's a single mom,
(39:28):
or it's because they'remixed kids.
It's because they're black.
It's because the parentsaren't doing enough at home.
All these things thatit's like, no, the kid just did
a cartwheel in the parking lot.
That has nothing to do withthat actually does have
something to do with whothey are.
They're they do parkourlike they're athletes.
But there's a big piece of mewho thinks they should just be
(39:53):
able to be, and theirpeople are going to love them
no matter what.
And yet if you don't understandthe whole child and you see
the one behavior and youautomatically assume that
that's what the life ofthe child is, then you're
missing out on so much beautyin this world.
And I feel like I seea lot of people noticing
(40:14):
those things.
And it's not justin my kids, it's I see it in
students, too, but it'sdefinitely a thing that I didn't
recognize before us,or maybe a sign and didn't
realize how problematic it wasuntil it was my own kids.
Do you think for youthere was like a really
big moment that like that momentthat some of these things
(40:36):
started to click for youand maybe your perspective
shifted?
Oh, and I think.
I it's kind of hearingsomething like, oh well that's
just daunting or wellthat's just Zander.
(40:59):
That's just how they are.
That's just who they arein a negative concept
like context.
Sorry.
Okay.
That have kind of made me think.
Think.
Or realize that that was evena thing that people were doing.
And honestly, the hardest,the hardest things to watch,
(41:21):
though, were those moments when,when teachers were saying
those things about students and,my thought was, what if
somebody's saying thisabout my kid?
And no matter what student it isthat's being talked about,
that somebody's child?
And so I think it was reallyin the classroom or in meetings
rather than I startedto realize that that was
(41:42):
happening.
And that's when I feel likeI became alert to it
in my children because it'sit was kind of like, oh, well,
you're not going to getanything out of that kid.
And then I'm like, challengeaccepted.
Like, let's go.
Yeah.
I really think that it wasit was a lot in the classroom
(42:02):
that sort of opened my eyesto what was happening
with my own children.
And then and sometimesit's just like, you know, I
don't think that we can haveDante and Zander over here
today because they don'tclean up their wrappers
when they eat something.
And then my thought is, will do.
Did you tell them take upyour wrappers.
(42:25):
And if you know, yes, weshould assume that children
just know.
And also children sometimesdon't remember.
And so I say pick upyour wrapper and they pick it
up and go throw it away.
Problem solved.
And then if it happens againthen they say, hey, remember
we need to pick up that wrapper,but they don't do that piece.
(42:45):
I feel like it's a lot of timeswhen there's one thing
that's done wrong, thenit's like, yeah, no, we
we're not doing this anymorebecause they didn't do X,
Y, and Z where a conversationwas not had with either them
or myself to know that there wasa problem in the first place.
So we weren't necessarily giventhe opportunity to rectify it.
And that's a frustrating pieceto that.
(43:07):
I also wasn't ready for it.
I just thought we all haveconversations with people
and stuff goes wrongand then we work to fix it.
And that piece does notalways happen.
There. Yeah.
And like you said, itkind of almost is all
or nothing.
And it being kind of moreof a character attack versus
maybe some grace and somecompassion for the fact that
(43:28):
these are, you know,kids that are ten and under
that are still learningand experiencing the world
and figuring outwhat their place is in it,
what what it's like to bein the world, what it's like to
have expectations,and be mindful.
I mean, gosh, if if our tenyear olds, our eight year olds
(43:50):
were able to be as mindful aswe would want it, I mean,
goodness, there's there's adultsthat, you know,
I look at and go,I wish you were you were
also practicingmore mindfulness.
But to have that expectationof these little kiddos
and then have it be like an allor nothing definition I can
imagine is just so hurtfulas as the parent who is working
(44:13):
really hard to to raisegood human beings and ones
that are celebrated and seen forfor their awesomeness, joy.
So I'm curious, are thereany kind of insights
or resources or things that ifyou could go back in time,
(44:36):
that you would tell yourselfto prepare or to share
with others that are maybeexperiencing similar things?
What what would you shareor give back in those ways?
And I think this also appliesto all parents weddings.
In particular, I felt like I'ma mix baby.
(44:58):
I can handle raisingmixed babies, and I was
excited for it.
And I was like, look how muchdiversity there live under
my roof.
And it was going to be amazing.
And I think the thingthat I really had
to knock myself down,a few things on it with that
I don't know everythingthat's going to happen, I don't
I yes, I'm a mixed baby inthat I'm not my children,
(45:20):
and I didn't haveall of the same experiences
as them.
So I think it's reallybeing able to separate yourself
from your tiny personand saying, I, I am not
this person.
I did not have this experience.
So I think a lot of timessomething that's harmful is
when parents say like, oh,you're fine.
Like, I've been there.
(45:41):
I know what you're dealing withand it's not the end of
the world or, you know, my like,if I were to say to my kids
like, yeah, I was a mixedbaby too.
So I know mixed babieshave issues in the
school system.
I don't know that because Ididn't have those difficulties.
I didn't have people sayinghurtful things to me.
I did have people usingmicroaggressions that I didn't
(46:03):
realize were microaggressionsuntil I became educated on what
they were.
And some really oh, before youmove on, could you?
Actually, for thosethat don't know what
microaggressionsare, can you just give us like
a little snippet?
Yeah. Of course.
So a point, for example,is my kids here earlier
we talked about how hehas dreads.
Right.
And something thatcan be harmful to a child
(46:26):
is when you're a girl or toany person of color
is when you're treating themlike what they are is not normal
in a way that's notlike you wouldn't
do it to somebody who issomebody else, right?
So you wouldn't just go upto some random person, be like,
oh my God, let me touchyour hair.
And people will do that to you.
Lots of times to black people,because black people
(46:46):
have beautiful hair, Aand B, it's styled differently
and it's different from whatwe expect.
Because it's it's differentfrom what we have. Right.
And so we want to see it.
We want to touch it,we want to feel it,
but also know that's invadingtheir personal space.
So you would not go upto a white person and say,
let me touch your hair.
Let me, let me see your braids.
Let me.
Is this real?
(47:07):
Like those kinds of things thatyou don't realize are harmful.
And yeah, that can be anotherexample is, you know, saying
when a person is talkingand their dialect is different
from yours, telling them thatthey're wrong or telling
them that they're in any waynot educated because they're
(47:29):
not using correct grammarwhere correct grammar came from,
a book written by a bunchof white guys like
incorrect grammar where theywere born or in their home
exists, right?
Like their own ability to code,which is this superpower, right?
(47:50):
Where I have to speak thisway at school and this way
at home.
And I can merge the twosometimes, but it's really
like knowing another languageand yet telling them
that they're wrong about it isharmful. Right?
And that's another thingwhere you don't think
that you're doinganything wrong.
A lot of timesthe microaggressions
are rooted in what is consideredthe norm, but the norm,
(48:12):
according to him, is what wereally need to think about.
Where did this norm come from?
And if this norm came froma group of white guys, that's
not the norm, because noteverybody is a group of
white guys. Yeah.
And who makes you theauthority, right, to determine
the norm for somebody else'sunique life and life
experiences.
(48:33):
Right?
Absolutely.
And I, I did not meanto cut you off.
I just I thought that wassuper important.
I wanted to make sure that ourlisteners, for those that don't,
aren't aware of whatmicroaggressions are, could be
a little bit more informed.
So thank you for being willingto kind of take a slight
detour there, actually.
So I was thinking about thisearlier that so there were
(48:55):
experiences that I've had too,that also were harmful
to me as a child,but didn't really I didn't
realize it until I was an adult.
So when I was in.
Fourth grade, maybe it waselementary school for sure.
I when we had a culturalcelebration day at school
and my teacher gave me agrass skirt and the lay to wear
(49:24):
because I looked like I couldbe Hawaiian and I.
So we're workingwith assumptions.
There and I weary.
Yeah, because I was infourth grade, it was like, cool,
I get to wear this coolflower thing.
But then I looked at picturesone day and I was like,
gosh, like, why did you thinkthat was okay?
(49:46):
Because nobody told me itwasn't right.
Yeah.
And it's kind of like,there's no like, just because
my eyes are slanteddoes not mean that I look
Hawaiian.
And also, what does it meanto look Hawaiian?
And, so like I thinkabout this a lot
when I'm teaching in Spanishbecause somebody will
look at people and be like,that was not Spanish.
(50:08):
Well, first of all, no,they're from Puerto Rico.
That's not Spanish.
They're word Rican, but theyspeak Spanish.
No, they don't realize whyI'm here.
Okay, okay.
So yeah.
So I think it's a lot of timesthese like those assumptions
that are being made and then thegeneralization and saying like,
oh well that's nice.
(50:28):
You could be Hawaiian.
Where are you?
Chinese and Japanese.
See I would be embarrassed.
Like, right.
Why is it only one or the other.
And I think, I thinkthat's a huge thing that
I didn't just I grew upthinking, okay, like
nobody knows any better.
And then I grew upand I was like, how come nobody
knows any better?
(50:49):
That's great.
Like, what is that?
So I think it's just thatthat piece of like
really educating yourself onwho people are and knowing
that it's they can be celebratedin ways that are
exciting for them and that makethem feel like this is me
and I love who I am, and I wantto share this with you,
(51:11):
rather than the thing wherethat they feel like they have
to, like, kind of hold back inand not be able to share.
So I think it's kind of simplewhen you ask me about, you know,
what are those thingsthat I want to tell other
people, it really know who thepeople are and celebrate them,
and also recognize that yourexperience is not the same
as theirs.
Yeah.
(51:32):
And almost sounds likeI wonder if, you know, part of
that is startingand figuring out kind of what
your own biases are firstand figuring out, you know,
what does that look likein your lens?
And then being able to thenhave that conversation
with your kids, as I imaginethat's a really
hard conversation to haveif you're not even, you know,
your own biases and kind ofwhat's going on
(51:54):
based off of yourown experiences, your own life,
what you've been taught, etc.,you know you're not completely
cognizant of and you'rejust kind of going through life,
like you said, because Idon't know any different.
This is all I've seen.
And so I didn't know thatthis was, you know,
inappropriate or whatnot.
It sounds like could be reallybeneficial.
(52:15):
Yeah, I, I think so a lot.
So we look at sorry you thoughtyou were.
Oh no.
You're good.
Go for it.
I'd love to hear it.
So I'm thinking about how,a lot of times we think
too, like what?
What what can I say that's goingto be the right thing
to say, right?
Or you're like, I'm afraidto talk because I don't want to
(52:37):
be offensive or, you know,I don't want to
ask the questions because it'snot their job to educate me.
I need to go and get educatedmyself.
So some of the conversationsthat we need to have
with ourselves are those thatmaybe you need a journaling
page.
I actually have a journalthat I can send your way, like,
I want to say it's likeeight pages maybe that have
(53:00):
different ways to kind of divein to who you are in terms
of your cultural identity.
And then once you'rekind of feeling like, okay, I'm
comfortable with, you know,recognizing who I am
and talking aboutthe ways that I the way that I
represent myself, the ways thatI celebrate where I am now,
I can start to look at howI'm looking at other people.
(53:22):
And there are unconsciousbiases, tests that you can
take online, where it's likea series of images and asks you
to choose based on specificquestions or stereotypes
and things like that,where it's like, you know,
which person looks likethey would be friendly,
which person looks likethey would be dangerous,
who would you be afraid of?
I think the big thingis being honest with yourself.
(53:44):
When you're having thoseconversations or doing those
journaling pages or takingthose tests, really
answering them truthfully.
Because I think a lot of timeswe know that something is wrong.
So we speak around it to say,you know, oh, well, I know that
I would be afraidof this person, but if I say
that I'm going to sound racist,so I need to not say that.
(54:07):
So you choose differently.
And that's not an honestconversation with yourself.
You're recognizing that youhave that unconscious bias,
but you're avoiding itby answering how you think
somebody wants you to answer.
And then you're saying, oh,I don't have the unconscious
biases or or the resultsthat hold true to what you're
actually experiencing.
(54:28):
Yeah, absolutely.
That's a great resource.
And I'd love to to link itdown too.
So again, all those thingsfor those folks that are
listening, we'll make sureget included.
In our show notes.
And so those are great resourcesto be able to start changing
this conversation and hopefullymaking this place, leaving
this place a better worldthan when we got here.
(54:51):
And, and helping kind of rewritesome of these journeys that,
our neighbors right next to usor you yourself might be
experiencing and peopleare unaware because there's not
enough conversation aboutthese things.
And that's whatwe're here to do.
We're here to have theseconversations to pull back
that curtain.
So here is my product.
(55:15):
Hopefully it it does well.
Oh goodness.
And just kind of what we'relooking for.
Yes.
No. So yes.
But also I feelthat differently.
I would have rolled it inso that it was like the flap
with the along the roleof the egg roll.
It looked like cutelittle person, you know,
(55:37):
like well below.
Yeah.
Hey, it's my interpretationof it was exactly what you
were going for, right?
Yes.
So I did.
I thought them like that.
A couple of pictures that I gotand I was like, oh, my gosh,
are we doing them wrong?
Because it's my at my house.
Like, I will roll themlike an egg roll.
(55:58):
My mom will make them flat,but more like yours
that look like an envelopewith like a rectangle rather
than like the square pocket.
So again, it's your it's how youhow you do it.
It's how you do it.
It's going to be backwith the same delicious flavor.
But I love that.
It's like you're my directionsfor them.
Here is your interpretationof them.
And this is what they look like.
(56:19):
And I'm like, oh, that's not howI make them.
But also they're goingto be delicious.
Yeah.
And and hey, you know,I can put it when I'm out the
pocket.
So all that to say, you know,the basic that's, that's
how we are.
Right.
The basic materials of usare, are fairly similar.
(56:41):
At the same time, we all areunique and different and we're
all just as amazing as an egg.
So that's, that's that's myspin on it.
I love all verythank you so much for being
willing to to chat with us todayand share a little bit
about your story and yourexperience.
Sure.
On on the real family.
(57:02):
So thank you.
If you or anyone that you knowis struggling with any of
the topics that we discussed intoday's episode, make sure
to check out our show notesfor support and resources.
You can get help.
Thanks again for joining uson today's episode of The
Real Family Eat.
If you're a parent readyto share your real life
(57:24):
parenting story, make sure toreach out to us and our website
found in the show notes.
And that goes for today's recipesocial media's support
and resources.
All of that can be foundin our show notes,
so make sure to check them outand make sure to follow, like,
share, subscribe, and stayup to date on all things
the real family.
(57:46):
I hope you'll join us next timefor more food for thought
and thoughtful food!Enjoy your eats!
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