January 28, 2025 • 52 mins
Send us a text with your feedback here!
two and Marriage and Family Therapist, joins Reesa Morala, LMFT, to share his inspiring story. John opens up about:
- Parenting while deployed
- His journey of recovery from alcohol abuse
- The intentional steps he took to build a stronger connection with his child
Discover relatable insights, powerful resources, and emotional stories of resilience. Plus, don’t miss John sharing his cherished Gram Gram’s Banana Bread recipe—a nostalgic family favorite that brings warmth and love to the table.
✅ Subscribe for uplifting parenting stories, actionable tips, and comforting recipes!
💬 What parenting challenges have you faced? Share your story in the comments!
🍌 Tried the recipe? Let us know how it turned out!
Find John:
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Gram Gram's banana bread (with or without nuts)
INGREDIENTS:
2 1/2 cups of all-purpose flour
1 cup of sugar
3 1/2 teaspoons of baking powder
3 table spoons of oil
3/4 cup of milk
1 egg
1 cup of finely chopped nuts (optional)
1 cup of ripe bananas (mashed) 2-3 banana make 1 cup
1/2 brown sugar (hold for sprinkling)
INSTRUCTIONS:
1. Preheat oven to 350 degrees
2. Grease and flour bread pan 9"x5"x3"
3. Mix all ingredients in a large mixing bowl on medium for 30 seconds.
4. Scrap the sides and pour into pan.
5. Bake for 35 minutes.
6. Pull from oven and sprinkle brown sugar on the top.
7. Return to oven and bake for 20-30 minutes.
8. Check after 20 with wooden toothpick.
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Disclaimer:
The discussions and content on this podcast/YouTube channel are for general educational use and are not a substitute for professional mental health advice or treatment.
If you require support, please consult a licensed therapist. For emergencies, contact a crisis hotline or local emergency services.
The viewpoints of the host(s) and guests are their own and not indicative of the platform’s stance.
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Host: Reesa Morala, MA, Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist. Reesa is a parenting specialist with a niche in supporting couples. Find Reesa hosting couples and parenting workshops nationwide!
Make sure to like, follow, and subscribe!
For the video version of this episode find us at: https://www.embracerenewaltherapy.com/
If you are a parent ready to share your real-life parenting struggle and dish up a recipe with Reesa, apply here:
https://www.embracerenewaltherapy.com/real-family-eats-guest
If you are experiencing a mental health crisis or need personalized support, please seek help from a licensed mental health professional. If you are in immediate danger or experiencing a crisis, contact emergency services or a crisis hotline in your area.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
When the military told methat I had one year
to resolve the, humanitarianchallenges.
I heard that as I needed tofind a wife in a year.
Hey, everyone.
Thanks for joining me.
My name is Reesa, and I'myour host.
(00:22):
We are talking to real familiesabout real stories here on the
real family eats, where we'vegot food for thought
and thoughtful food.
So let's eat.
(00:44):
Hey, everyone.
Thank you for joining us today.
I'm so excited.
We have John here to chatwith us.
John, thank you so muchfor being a guest on the show
today.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Yes, absolutely.
I'm so excited to hear aboutyour story.
Also this recipe.
But before we do that,for anybody who doesn't
know you, could you introduceyourself for us?
(01:05):
Absolutely.
My name is John Bacon Gilbert.
I'm a licensed virtual familytherapist.
I have a practice, in San Diegoas well as Marietta.
And, I'm just, really excitedto be able to have
the opportunity to help couples,as well as individuals with,
challenges they're experiencing.
Wonderful.
So, shameless plug sectionfor anybody that might need
(01:27):
your services.
In San Diego.
Marietta, do you also do virtualas well?
Absolutely, yes. Okay.
So all of California.
Yes. Wonderful.
So how can somebody find yourin your social.
Right. Yeah.
So you can find me on Instagram.
Couple connection SB throughemail you can contact me info
(01:47):
couple connection sb.com.
Wonderful.
And we'll make sure to haveall those links for you
on the show notes.
So make sure to check that out.
Okay.
So tell me about this recipe.
Why did you choose this recipeand kind of what we're going
to be making today?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
So you know a little bitabout myself, my, my, my mom,
(02:10):
was the in-home daycare provider.
Oh, was growing up.
And she absolutely loved to makelove to, you know,
she would make all of my cakes.
She would make, aroundthe holidays.
She would do dinner rollsand cinnamon rolls. Okay.
And this is something thatkind of just, you know, happened
throughout the, throughoutthe year.
It wasn't just specific aroundthat particular holiday. Okay.
(02:34):
And I always lovethe smell of it when it was
when she was baking.
Sometimes I remember coming homefrom school and you could
almost smell it before you camein the house as, like,
a freshman.
Hannah. Bread.
Yes.
And it's really important cuzI have a, a 26 year old son,
and he's made it our pastarecipe. Really?
Oh, I love that.
Okay, well, I'm so excited to tolearn this.
(02:56):
And so I definitely I thinkbanana bread is also a staple
in our home.
But I think my recipe isa little bit different, so I'm
super excited to try this one.
So tell me what the steps areand I'll get things going
while we chat today. Sure.
Yeah, it's it's really simple.
That's one of the reasonswhy I like it.
Yeah.
You really just take all theingredients, with the exception
(03:17):
of the the brown sugar, okay?
And you toss it in the,in the bowl, mix it up for
about 30s.
And, you know, you usethe pan, okay.
And pour it in the pan.
Wonderful.
And so your oven what do you setyour oven.
Three 5050 okay.
About how long do you normally,using go for about 40 minutes.
(03:38):
Okay.
And then I take it outand that's fine, but the,
brown sugar, I kind of sprinklethe brown sugar, which is
optional. Okay.
I like things to be a little bitsweeter.
Yeah.
And, and then put itback in there for, you know,
15 to 20 minutes.
Ooh.
We use the the toothpick stickthat in there.
If it comes out clean,it's done.
Yeah.
And I love that.
Such a different take again,that's very different from what
(04:00):
I've ever had.
Is that like like you said,that brown sugar kind of
almost crust on it. Yes.
Yeah.
That's yummy.
Okay.
Well I can do that.
I can plug and play.
While I'm doing that,I love to hear, I know one of
the stories that you'rewilling to share with us
is a little bit about yourjourney in single dad life,
and kind of, especially inthe beginning, some of those
(04:23):
struggles that you were kindof having to navigate.
Right? Yeah.
So can you tell me a little bitabout about that piece and,
and what that look like.
Sure.
Yeah, I well, first of all,I never thought I was
going to be a single dad.
It all kind of just,just happened very quickly.
You know, how quicklyare talking.
(04:45):
Probably within maybewithin three might.
Well, I got custody of my sonwhen he was three.
Okay.
And so, my wife and I startedto experiencing some challenges
in the relationship.
Really.
You know, within six monthsof marriage.
Wow. Yeah.
And I was I was in the military,I was deployed, and, I, I always
(05:07):
I remember having this.
I found a postcard in one of mytravels, and and it was a,
a picture of, like, a sweater.
Dogs, like husband,a team of dogs.
Okay.
And it said the viewnever changes.
I'm sorry if you're notthe lead dog with you.
Never changes.
And I remember I hadmy son's name and my wife's name
(05:28):
there, and I really hadthis drive and determination
to just be, know, to succeed, toto have a different life.
Because at the time,I was deployed to Antarctica.
Oh, yeah.
So you you went realfar out there.
Absolutely.
Really far.
And, and so when I, when Icame home, that's only from
(05:50):
my deployment.
That's when I really startedexperiencing some, some
challenges.
And, and we ended up,splitting up.
And then not long after that,I, I said, you know,
I want custody, and I,I at the time had orders to,
air station, Cape Cod,Massachusetts.
Okay.
My wife was in SouthernCalifornia.
(06:11):
And so, like I said,I told them, I said, I'll take
anything in Southern California.
And not long after that,I got custody.
And, and it was a challenge to,to go from a life of military
where I'm expectedto be available to the
to the country.
Yeah.
And to be, you know,not have anyone really to
care for him.
(06:32):
So it was a big struggle.
So were you still inthe military by this point
that you're you havefull custody?
Yes, absolutely.
I wow.
I was and I, I gotwhat was called a humanitarian
transfer.
So they put me on land,and said, you have a year to
kind of resolve this issue,so to speak.
Really? Yeah.
(06:53):
Yeah.
And so but yeah, I had a familywith them the whole time.
Okay.
So talk to me a little bit aboutnavigating that, because
parenting just in generalis hard.
When we start out now, you'readding on not only one,
but several layers of thingsthat are a challenge.
(07:15):
And so I'm really curious,kind of what did that look like
for you and kind of what wasgoing on for you mentally, even?
Yeah.
You know, I think one ofthe things it's important
to recognize this was my sonwas born in 97.
Okay. And, and, times havechanged a lot.
And I'm a therapist todayI have a different understanding
about what a relationship lookslike, but.
(07:37):
But at the time, I really hadthis sense that my job was to be
a provider.
And so I wasn't really deployinga whole heck of a lot of
emotional support.
And so I had my main focus wasbeing provider.
And so when the military told methat I had one year to resolve
the humanitarian challenges,and, I heard that as I needed
(07:59):
to find a wife in a year.
So really, I needed somebodyto help help me with that
process. Yeah.
And, and, you know, I rose tothe occasion because, again,
I was focused on on beingthe best father I could.
And part of that was, you know,taking the sacrifice
if I needed to, to, providesomebody in his life that could
(08:21):
they could help shoulderthe burden with me. Yeah.
Can you tell me a littlebit more about how how
that narrative kind of cameabout for you?
Like you said that whenwhen you heard, you know,
you got a year, it was a yearto find somebody else, right?
Kind of in that positionto talk to me a little bit
more about that.
It was it was pretty.
(08:41):
It was absolutely 100% rootedin my my necessity to provide.
Okay.
I really enjoyed being inthe military.
That was, I didn't make awhole heck of a lot of money,
but that was the most moneyI had made in my life
at that time.
And I really saw it as a sourceof stability.
Okay, that I would be ableto provide medical insurance,
I'd be able to provide,you know, a secure environment.
(09:05):
And, so that's that's reallythe mindset I was in was like
wanting to providestability and, and give him
as much, a safe space as hecould have.
Yeah.
And so it sounds like in thatmind frame going back and like
you said, being able to go backinto the military and provide in
that way was kind ofhow you saw.
Absolutely.
It needed to go. Right.
(09:26):
So walk us through that.
Is that how it went?
How did that kind of work out?
Not exactly, not exactly.
Now, as many, many people canprobably imagine, you know, a
marriage that starts outwith that kind of pressure,
there was a lot of pressureon it, and it didn't
last very long.
Yeah.
(09:47):
However I did, I ended upgetting stationed on land. Okay.
And so that kind of renewsthat necessity to have
somebody there.
So I, I was a single father for,for quite a few years.
Wow. Yeah.
Was that difficult toto shift that because if
as you're mentioning so was the,the next partner still
(10:09):
in the picture during this yearor were you doing that kind
of also.
Wow. Yeah.
Know that that that next partnermoved back to her hometown.
Got it.
So I mean, what was thatlike for you to kind of
have to have that shift?
You're going into it with likethat mindset, as you mentioned,
kind of provider, and nowyou're having to kind of put
(10:31):
on multiple hats.
I imagine.
Yeah, it was it was a challenge.
It was it was a challengebecause I, you know, I'd like to
believe that when we turn 18that suddenly we get a,
a new program downloaded inour brain that tell us
when to be, you know, how to bean adult.
You're an adult now,and then you have a child.
(10:51):
Okay?
You're a parent now?
Yeah.
I didn't get that download.
I don't know if you knowApple. Mr..
Well, let me know.
So we got one of thoseevery time we had a new,
you know, life transition thing.
So it was it was difficult.
It was, it was I have thisjoke that, well, he was
he was born in December,and I have this picture of me
(11:12):
holding him next to theChristmas tree, and people
see it and they say, wow,it looks like a baby raising
the baby.
And I was like, exactly.
Wow.
So it was really challenging.
So I really consider myson to be my best teacher.
He really taught me alot about life, about how to be
a parent.
You know, how to show updifferently for him.
(11:33):
So it was really learningthe process.
He was he was a teacher.
Is that an insight that took youa while to get to a long time?
Yeah.
Yeah, I, I wasn't thinking thatat the time.
Yeah, yeah.
At the time I was thinking like,you know, the important things
that I had known, as, you know,essentially I was giving my son
(11:53):
the relationship with meand giving him the things
that I didn't have as a father.
So I was trying to give him ofparenting help and how I wanted
to parent.
Yeah.
Can you say a little bit moreabout that.
Yeah, absolutely.
I, I grew up loving all sports.
I, I especially loved baseballand from the, from the
(12:14):
earliest age, I could rememberjust begging my dad to come out
like catch with me, right?
I had no interest in sportswhatsoever.
You know, I distinctlyremember him oftentimes saying,
not now, son, I'm busy now.
And, I remember being about13 years old, you know, tears
streaming down my facebecause I just wanted to
connect with my dad any wayI could.
(12:35):
And, and I said, I wishwhen I have a child, it's
going to be different.
He said that even out loud.
Yeah.
Wow. Yeah.
And and I remember whenmy son came, I, I really felt
this sense of like, okay, I'mgoing to prove this.
I'm. And, so when my son wasreally old enough to stand,
I had a wiffle ballbat in his hand and throwing him
(12:57):
wiffle balls in the house.
Coached him all through theLittle League.
We won a couple of,championships together.
And when he was 12, hesaid, dad, he says, I don't
like baseball.
You do?
Wow. Yeah.
And it was that that hit hard.
It's it continues to hit hardevery time I see.
I can feel chillsright now. Wow.
Yeah, yeah, it really hit hard.
(13:20):
And that's what I mean by, like,being the teacher
that I realized in that momentthat I had left my son
feeling the same exact way.
My dad left me feelingbecause my son wasn't interested
in baseball.
Yeah.
So how where do yougo from there?
Because that's a pretty bigblow.
(13:42):
You know, it sounds likeyou went into kind of with this
mindset, I'm going to be a dadthat I didn't have.
And, you know, for you,it sounds like it presented in
that kind of I'm going toconnect with you over sports
and do all these things where,like you said, it sounds like,
you know, his his feedbackwas this isn't necessarily for
me what Lanza's connection.
(14:06):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
It was a big eye opener.
You know what?
I one of the things I hadalways made an effort to instill
in him is that we don't quit.
And, so I, you know, he wantedto drop out of seasons
before, and I said, nowjust just finish the season.
And when he told me that we werein the middle of his final year
in Little League and I said,you don't have to go to
(14:28):
another game.
Wow.
That's that's a big difference.
Especially, like you said,if you have that mindset of
we don't quit to being ableto receive that, I'm grateful
that I was able to receive it.
Yeah.
Grateful that I was in a spacein my life that I was able
to hear that messageand recognize that that
I had made a similar mistakeand I didn't want to do that.
(14:49):
So it was about finding waysto connect with him
that he wanted to do.
What do I look like?
How did you make thoseconnections?
Yeah, really.
You know, I'd like to tell youthat at the time, I sat down
with a pen and paperand I asked him how to connect.
Yeah, that's what I wouldsuggest today.
That's the hindsight.
(15:10):
But really, what it lookedlike was me being more available
to him.
He loved sushi.
And so we would go on these,sushi dates.
Okay.
And, he really loved foodin general, but, you know,
sushi was one of them.
And so we would go out todinner often, you know, he,
really enjoys video games.
(15:31):
And, you know, up until thattime in life, I really was
against him having even a videoconsole in the house.
Okay, yeah, I thought so.
That was a skill or use of time.
I ended up buying hima video console and, allowed
him to, you know,kind of explore that part
of his life.
And so really just asking himfor the feedback of what
(15:53):
what how does he want to spendhis time? Yeah.
I'm so curious how you were ableto make that transition,
because I feel like,especially some of the older
generation I've heard that from,you know, now, now adults
kind of with this ideathat asking for feedback
or even being open to the ideathat children can teach us
as an adult is such ahard concept for some people
(16:17):
to be able to accept or,you know, be open to.
And so I'm so curious,like, for you in your journey,
how did you get to that placeto be able to kind of almost
have the humility, it soundslike, to just see those things.
Yeah.
Interesting choice of wordsthat it was humility.
Yeah, it really was.
And and again, I didn't feelthat at the time.
(16:39):
I really felt broken.
I really felt brokenbecause like, everything I
had thought, you know, I mean,mind you, when I had my son,
I went to parenting classes.
As you know, I'm 21 years old,going to parenting classes.
Wow.
Really, really sort,understanding and and wanting
(17:00):
to have, be able to set that,that intention for him.
So it was really,I just realized I forgot your
question. Yeah.
Just how you were able to get tothat place of humility.
Yes, yes, yes.
You know, I, I would say thatit's probably, One of the, one
(17:20):
of the things that wehaven't talked about
was my struggle with alcohol.
Okay.
And, right around that age,it was about ten years
when I stopped drinkingalcohol. Okay.
And so this was when he was 12,and so I, I had not
been drinking for a little whileand had gained more humility
through that process. Wow.
(17:41):
That, you know, it's always beena challenge.
One of the things that'sreally tough I really struggle
with is asking for help.
It wasn't something that my dador anybody ever said.
Don't you dare ask for help.
It was something that I thinkwas just implied.
And I took it.
Yeah, yeah.
For you, what were someof the ways that it was implied?
Because I think that's that'ssuch a key piece that I heard
(18:03):
so many parents ask for that.
We kind of get into this,this tunnel vision of not
asking for, yeah.
That's that's a great that'sa great question because
I really I think some ofthe things that my dad would do,
I would, I do remember askingfor help. Okay.
(18:24):
And quite often I was deniedhim, you know.
Yeah.
I remember specifically.
So my dad's not interestedin sports, very interested
in, computers.
Okay. And so I rememberasking my dad for a computer
(18:45):
to connect.
Yeah.
And he bought me this.
Broken down.
Like, I think it was like aCommodore 64.
Okay, so really, really early.
Yeah.
World.
And, think I said, dad,you know, how do I get this
thing working?
And he says, well, you gottafigure it out.
(19:06):
And that's how he learned.
Yeah, he learned by figuringit out.
And my intention for that wasI wanted to sit down.
Let's do this together.
Yeah I'll watch you.
And that didn't happen.
Yeah.
And and it's interestingbecause I noticed myself
at a certain point in my son'slife, he would ask me questions
and I would say hey we'vegot this amazing tool
(19:27):
called Google that.
Yeah.
So I was essentially doing thesame thing to him in a
different way with, you know,the use of technology.
And I think what's sointeresting that you mention
that is the fact that I findso many of us parents, I do it
myself, where sometimes I missthose bits for connection
(19:48):
because I don't necessarilysee it in that lens.
Like like you said, whetherit's, hey, can you teach me
how to, you know, powerthis computer, or asking
a question, wanting to havea conversation.
You know, sometimes it can bereally easy for us as parents
if you live, you know, imagineyou also as a single day.
(20:09):
Imagine that was really busy.
And so then, you know,kind of see these things and,
and remember that this is themtrying to make that connection
can be really difficult.
I imagine those those I'm gladyou said that.
Those missed IDs for connection,are so vital.
Yes. So vital.
(20:29):
I, I can't tell you.
I'm certain I missso many of them, but I,
I'm getting better at it.
And that's been throughthe humility of my son,
you know, having to I continueto have a relationship with him.
You know, just recentlyhe asked me, he says,
dad, can I.
I want to come up to your house,and I want you to help me paint
the inside of my jeep.
(20:49):
Well, and I'm, like, thinkingin my mind, I really don't
want to do that.
That's not how I envisionedspending my Saturday.
Yes.
And, you know, and mymy inclination is to tell him
how to do it.
Okay.
So but then I realizedit's not about getting it done.
It's about the connection thathe's craving.
(21:09):
And so he came up and wepainted it together.
It didn't end up beingmaybe more fulfilling
than when you initially kindof heard let's this team
definitely.
Yeah definitely.
I think I think definitelyfor him more so than me.
Okay.
You know, I have I have atwo year old son is
(21:32):
as well as him.
And so I'm, I'm kind of feelalmost pulled in two directions
having the, the, the mindsetthat the missed opportunities
I had when my older sonwas young and not wanting
to duplicate those mistakesof my gender.
So, yeah, I mean, how do younavigate that balance, like you
(21:52):
said, of of not only multiplechildren, but you've
got like you said, they'rethey're quite different ages.
So they're into differentthings.
So it's not one of those,you know, we can do it
all together and have everybody,you know, come by.
I'm right.
So how you how you navigatethat balance.
Well part of it's builtin my older son lives about
(22:14):
an hour away.
Okay.
But when he comes to visitor I go to visit him,
my younger son comes with.
Okay.
And they both, you know,my older son loves seeing my
younger son.
And my younger son gets a bigsmile on his face and says
his name and goes runningto him.
Oh, wow.
(22:34):
And so it's it's kind of aspecial bond.
Yeah, that soundsreally special.
So I'm really curious,and I'd love to go back,
if that's okay with youkind of talking about, your,
your journey as far asalcoholism in conjunction
then with also single dad andand kind of did that play a part
(22:55):
in some of your journey.
How so like like resorting toalcohol because I was stressed
or or overwhelmed.
It could be that oreven just maybe impacting,
you know, going backto the connection where
some of those things were lostbecause because the, you know,
the alcohol was maybe the,the choice in that moment.
(23:15):
Like, what did that look likefor you?
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, I can remember there weretimes early when I, when I
first got custody of him.
Okay.
My focus was, you know,I knew that I was supposed
to read my child a bedtimestory, okay?
And I would catch myselfskipping pages so I could
(23:38):
hurry up and get throughthe story because I wanted to go
and take some time for myselfto recharge with alcohol.
Really? Yeah.
And so how as far as, like,your sobriety and your journey
there was that difficultto navigate, getting to
that place where you were ableto overcome and able to get to
(24:02):
that place of sobriety,while also having some of the
just routines, stressors ofbeing a parent and having
to, like, show up because Iimagine, you know, with between
withdrawals and just cravingsand everything and having
to do that in conjunction withbeing present as a parent,
it was definitely a challenge.
Yeah, it was a challengebecause I had the awareness,
(24:25):
having a sober mind that,that I needed to be
more present, but alsoknowing that I needed to treat
myself.
I needed to take care of myselfand, and, you know, and
treat my soul.
Yeah.
And so it's almost like that,another one of those
double lines where it's like,okay, you need to
spend more time with your son.
(24:45):
You get the clarity of that.
But then also the recognitionand the realization that I
also need to take careof myself.
Yeah.
You know, it's like thatwhen you fly.
They say you're travelingwith children.
Put your mask on first.
I always use, No, I'mnot doing that on him first.
Yeah.
But that's that's reallyhelped me to understand probably
(25:06):
more now as a therapist andunderstanding that, if I'm
not, well, if I don't take careof myself the night before,
getting a good night's rest,prepping for my clients
the next day, you know,going into it with really this
intentionality, I'm notgoing to be that great.
Yeah.
(25:27):
I mean, to have even justgoing back to that,
maybe our word for todayabout humility and being able
to say that, that, you know, ifif I can't necessarily take care
of myself, I don't I won't havethe capacity to be able
to show up in the way thatI really want to.
(25:47):
Not only that, but thinkingabout how do I demonstrate
that to my son?
So then he understands it's okayto prioritize yourself.
Yeah, that's a greata great point.
Was that helpful for youas far as that reframe?
It was an he's yeah.
He's doing a great job with it.
(26:08):
I'm I'm already readingbooks now.
So my son, my younger son, that,you know, one of the
lines in the book says it's okayif I hurt someone's feelings
when I say no.
Yes.
What a concept.
Right? Right.
It's not something that wasever driven into my mind
as a young child.
It was always like,let's say that you're going
(26:30):
to hurt somebody feelings.
You're going to hurt someone'sfeelings.
It's a disappointment.
You know, it's going to causesomething else in someone else.
Absolutely.
Yeah, yeah.
Causal I guess I controlother people's feelings.
Yeah.
And man when we get in that mindframe, it gives us so much
control over other people'semotions or vice versa.
(26:50):
If we're kind of givingthat power away.
Right.
And that oh you made mefeel these different
things. Right.
Gosh man, if we all had thatsuper power, I think the world
would be so much different.
It would be, it would be.
But I think it starts,you know, it starts really?
Yeah.
You know, I mean, a littlepersonal development right now
(27:11):
and it, it it shows this,this diagram of what
we look like in our, at ouryoung age.
And it's kind of it'salmost like a horseshoe.
Okay.
This is our subconsciousis open to anything at
that point.
Yeah.
And so right now at this age,this is when children are taking
in that, that, that, shape theirparadigm, shape the way that
their mind works. Yeah.
(27:31):
To say, oh, I have to say yes,even though I want to say
no right now.
So I'm super curious, youknow, even along those lines
because you could havevery easily rested in that.
Like this is what I was shownthis is what shapes my paradigm
and kind of just, you know,wash your hands of it
(27:52):
and said, well, this is allI can do.
And it sounds like, you know,I heard you mentioned going out
and and attending classesand trying to gain information,
and it sounds like a real drivefor something different
that you maybe didn't knowwhat that different look like.
But hey, I'm going tosearch it out.
And so I'm curious, how did youget to that point that, like you
(28:13):
said, instead of just kindof resting?
Well, this is all I know.
You know, I really I've alwaysbeen hungry to understand.
I've been.
I've been hungry.
You know, curiosity.
I want to, I had a guidancecounselor in college,
and so, John, she said you'relike a windup toy.
I just want you up and pointingin the right direction.
(28:34):
You're going to achievewhatever it is you need to even
I understand that to.
I like to have guides.
I like to know where I'm going.
I like to, you know,get clarity.
And so I've always been kind of,you know, I read a lot of
self-help books, a lotof personal development books
that really, kind of quenchthat thirst within me
to do better.
And really, what I've,what I've come to understand
(28:57):
in all the classes,all the all the trainings, all
the books is our family,our children.
Those are the conversationsthat need to happen.
You're asking them, whatdo you want?
You know, not just whatdo you want?
Because most of the time,what do you want?
(29:18):
Well, I want to play stationright?
I want a pony.
Right? Yeah.
But asking more directedquestions like, what is it
that I do that leavesyou feeling like, what is it
that what events or whatway that I talk to you?
What what activity that we dotogether leaves you feeling
special?
(29:38):
Yeah.
No more questions alongthose lines of just getting to
stepping outside of thematerial world.
Not things, but actual memories.
Yeah, feelings.
What I love about that, too.
Not only is it an openended question, but it it's
(29:59):
going beyond that.
How is your day?
Wearing it makes it really easyfor our kiddos.
Like fine okay.
One word and they're gone.
You know, and it doesn'tnecessarily give you
the consent, nor does itreally allow an opportunity
for going back to kindof venture connection.
Versus like you said somethingthat's what's going on in your,
(30:20):
in our world or you know,what feedback that you
can give me as far ashow is this landing for you.
And, and doing that, you know,in a way that it sounds like
really trying to cultivatea relationship versus
just kind of resting onyou're my kid, I'm your parent.
So naturally we havea relationship, right?
(30:42):
Right, right.
Yeah.
I'm supposed to interactwith you this way.
Yeah.
It's really importantto get their their feeling.
Yeah.
You know, I think mostparents will be surprised.
I was surprised when I startedask those questions.
Yeah, yeah.
Was there something specificthat surprised you most?
(31:03):
Time.
Time.
My my my oldest son.
He just wants my time.
He wants my appreciation.
You know, he wantsmy acceptance.
Not long ago, he.
Well, I guess it's actuallybeen a couple years now.
He called me up, and he says.
Daddy says I'm going toget a dog.
And in my head, I'm thinkingthis is the worst idea
he's ever had.
(31:24):
He has no business owning a dog.
But what came out of my mouthwas that's great, son.
You'll be an excellentdog owner.
And he is fabulous.
Wow. Yeah.
And it sounds likein that moment really kind
of challenging yourselfto move away from that
instinctual kind of likejudgment of all the ways
I could go wrong.
(31:45):
Absolutely.
And I think that's part of whatthat fear that comes
from parents.
You know, I can remember being,I think I was about 13 or 14
years old, and I told my momI had a drafting class in junior
high, okay.
And I came home.
I said, mom, I want to bean architect.
My mom had always told meshe was like, you can be
anything you want to be,just whatever you put your
(32:06):
mind to.
And when I told herthat she said, oh thanks
a lot of college.
You got to be really goodat math.
And I was terrible math. Yeah.
And that was really, I thinkthe first time I ever heard
of college, it wasn'tsomething that was discussed
in her household at all.
And that just kind of likesmash it down.
(32:28):
Oh yeah.
I recognize times when I've hadconversations with my son
about that and he says, oh,I want to do this or do that.
And my inclination isto protect him from being
disappointed.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think that and I love thatyou said that because often
times when, when thesethings happen, it's not
(32:51):
that we're going into itas parents with this like evil
mindset.
I want to like bash my child'sdreams.
I don't think that I'vereally ever met a parent that
but that often it does come fromthat place, like you said,
of trying to protect them.
And it doesn't necessarilyland that way because, you know,
(33:12):
we're human, we're individuals.
And, you know, that there hasI think there needs to be
that space for curiosity.
There needs to be that space forpossibility.
Absolutely, absolutely.
Yeah.
I always joke sometimeswith my couples that come in
and I say, I've never hada couple come to me
and say, John, we just hada newborn baby.
Can you help us groom up?
(33:33):
Yeah, absolutely.
My office is filled with peoplewho had difficult childhoods,
were misunderstood and weren'ttreated the way they wanted
to be treated.
Yeah, that's why I really lovekind of.
Again, you taking it back?
And I think that's such a greatlittle nugget.
I'm taking it back to the kiddosand really getting that feedback
and having that open dialoginstead of looking at them is,
(33:54):
you know, your subordinate.
No way am I going to takeyour feedback right now.
Your kid would, you know, I feellike it's so easy to kind of
get trapped in that mindset,but really to have
a conversation with them and arespectful one where they're
getting to see that, hey, like,if my parents think I'm worth
asking my opinion.
(34:15):
Yes.
You know, talking to melike a human, gosh,
what does that meanabout when I go out into
the world, you know, and whatI deserve, right? Yeah.
I mean, I was raised in the eraof children or to be seen
and not heard.
Yeah.
And I was spanked.
My mom broke many women spoonsall over my butt.
(34:38):
Very wooden spoons that we'respending with right now.
Oh yeah I know the woodenspoon. Yeah.
And, And really what, thatI really feel like it,
it crushes a lot of creativity.
It really smashes down.
That hurt inside of me.
And it says less now.
Why not me.
Yeah. Yeah yeah I canremember in early in, in my life
(35:03):
we would drive from Californiato Oregon to visit family.
And my dad's objective was toget there as soon as we could.
So you could brag abouthow quickly we got there.
Yeah. And, you know, whatthat was like for me was that
I got to go to the bathroom.
Okay, couple more exits and thenten miles, 15 minutes
(35:23):
down the road that I still hadto go.
Yeah okay.
Just hang on, hang on.
Next.
And what that what thattaught me.
I didn't have this consciousthought then.
But what it taught mewhen I reflect on it
today is when my word wow.
Yeah.
I'm not valued.
It means nothing.
And and it's hard.
You know that's a, that's aI wouldn't say it's a constant
(35:45):
battle.
It's a battle that I'm, I'mgradually overcoming but it's
still there.
It's still in my mind.
It's my really worth it.
Yeah.
And again I mean I think that'sa perfect example where
it doesn't necessarily have tobe something huge, kind of life
altering where you look atand you go oh yeah that's where,
that's where it all went wrong.
(36:06):
Yeah.
You know, it could besomething like you said,
where it's that that subtlekind of I've got my
mind elsewhere, and I'mnot necessarily listening to the
little ones in my carin this instance.
And what what messages does thatsend to them?
Even the really little onesthat could become very
big pieces of your your corebeliefs about yourself?
(36:31):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
That is you nailed it.
Yeah.
I'm so curious when youkind of made that shift, kind of
going back to that,that self-care piece.
And was there a particularmoment that you were able
to kind of move from,from maybe, you know, resting on
some of these ideas to beingable to say, I am worth it.
(36:57):
I don't know if there's anymoment in any particular shift
that occurred.
It's been a gradualtransformation.
You know psychologistWilliam James says that we
we can have something calleda educational experience,
(37:17):
which is like over time it's nota sudden.
Yeah.
No massive change that weexperience right in us.
But it's just over time.
And that's, that's reallywhat's been happening
for me over the years.
It's been this, just havingfaith, just pushing. Okay.
Let me try this.
Let me put this this thingright here.
This is super.
This is not somethingI would have never done.
Yes.
(37:37):
You know, but when youinvited me to do it, I was like,
yes, yes.
You know, and this is what thepersonal development I'm
going through right nowis, is saying it's like when an
opportunity presents itself.
Try it.
Yeah.
You know, I mean it couldbe terrible.
I could, I could neverdo another one.
Hopefully not.
Or it could be amazing. Yeah.
(37:58):
And you know, and that's,that has been really the biggest
challenge for me is like.
Almost almost like, you know,a lot of times I'll ask clients
when they hear self-doubt,when they experience self-doubt.
So whose voice is that?
Oh, wait, that's yourmom's voice and how long
(38:19):
you've been gone?
She died in 87.
Oh, yeah.
And so it's like going backto that programing that,
that, that, that, that updatein our systems.
The parent that installedthis idea inside of our head
that says we're notworth anything.
We've long since dismissedanything they've ever said.
(38:39):
We may not even talk to them.
But the program is still therethat we're not worth it.
And we continue willinglydragging that with us. Right.
This bag baggage so heavy.
And just worthless.
Put it down.
Yeah.
And I think just rememberingthat idea that even no choice.
(39:00):
Right.
Is you making some sortof a choice.
And so being able to kind offigure out well in this moment
what choice do you want to make.
Do you want to keep likeyou said dragging it around
or are you ready to put it down.
And really again you may notknow the how to we may not have
the instruction manual becausewe don't get one.
(39:21):
There are resources.
There are ways to kind ofat least try to start
figuring it out.
And like you said, it may notbe like an overnight switch.
And it sounds like even havingsome patience for that, maybe a
little bit of compassion for it.
Well, but it is a journeyin putting.
It sounds like kind of one footin front of the other and
and really starting to walkdifferently, right?
(39:45):
Yeah.
That's exactly, exactly whatit is.
Just humility again.
Yeah.
Where do the day where doesthe day.
Having that humility to justtake a few steps and say,
you know what's going on here?
Yeah.
Reevaluate.
I'm a big believer thatif we just filled the room
with a bunch of peoplethat all agreed the same way,
we're not going to learn a lot.
(40:05):
Yeah.
But if we filled the roomwith people that have different
viewpoints and we explore them.
Okay.
How to get there.
And combine them we run the riskof learning a lot and growing.
Absolutely.
And I think what I really likedabout what you said
there is that what's going onhere.
Really taking a look at itfrom that place of curiosity.
Again another word of the day.
This, you know, this episodesponsored by, but you know,
(40:29):
that curiosity, what isgoing on here and doing
in that way of not judging italready before it's even
happened?
It really kind of saying,hey, I'd like to understand
more.
What, you know, even ifit's emotions like what,
what is this emotion trying totell me in this moment.
Right.
Yeah.
You're exactly right.
And you know we, we we changeour minds.
(40:50):
Or you know everything.
Everything changes. Yeah.
I a very young age, my whenwe moved from Oregon
to California, we moved inwith the family briefly
while we were waiting forour house to become available.
And this family tried all thedifferent types of foods. Okay.
And they try and, I don't know,brussel sprouts.
(41:14):
I did not like brussel sprouts.
Like, there's many peoplethat would agree.
I have to tell you, I love them.
Now.
I didn't I didn't give thema shot.
I think it was about 5or 6 years old.
I, I swore I'd never haveanother brussel sprouts
in my life.
Yeah.
It was probably about maybe 5or 6 years ago.
I, I tried one, and I was like,what?
(41:36):
This is actually really good,right? Yeah.
And so that's, you know,another example of going
back to the drawing board.
Okay.
Do I like this now.
Not just swearing it offthat this is this isn't
this isn't for me.
But having that curiositythat that willingness to try
something.
Yeah.
I imagine that's also usefulkind of in the parenting world
(41:57):
in the sense that as your kidsget older they're likely
also evolving likely changing.
And so maybe what landedfor them is a way of connection
or an interest, even at thebeginning when they're five is
very different than whenthey're 25.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
When you, you know,you're buying Hot Wheels
and or Barbies for yourfor your child when they're
(42:18):
younger, they're not going tolike it so much when they're
25. Yeah. Yeah.
And so I imagine if youstart like if you start
the curiosity and okay, I andI know everything
and you kind of rest on that.
Oh I know what they're goingto say.
I know what they're going to do.
You know, it sounds like you'vealso kind of missed some of
those changes that maybe hey,I didn't like brussel
sprouts before, but absolutely.
(42:39):
Now I really do.
Right.
We continue to evolve.
You know everyone does.
Yeah.
And so let's just say that ourchildren won't even as they
become adults.
Yeah.
If there is so one ofmy favorite questions
that I like to ask is if youhad access to a Delorean,
is there anything, if you couldgo back that you would kind of
tell yourself in preparationfor the single dad journey
(43:02):
that you, you had to navigate?
Yeah.
I really feel like if I wereto go back.
I probably would have given upmy career and just focused
on being a dad.
Wow.
Just focus that on, you know,I mean I kind of essentially
(43:23):
I did do that later onwhen my son was, was he was much
older and I had starteda, I completed my undergrad
program and I went right into mygraduate program, and he
experienced the challenges.
Okay.
And I got real clear.
I got, you know, real claritythat I needed to put my career
on hold.
(43:44):
And I went into a jobthat I didn't really,
really like.
I went into it.
Sorry if there's any guys thatyou like I was bored out
of my school and but ironicallyenough me working in that
IT industry for three yearshelped me to get the internship
that I wanted.
Wow. Yeah.
And so I was like, that's that'sprobably like a big moment
(44:06):
for me is like when I'mexperiencing something that's
discomforting.
Continue pressing on.
Maybe there's a reason.
Maybe there's a purpose for it.
Yeah. Yeah.
I think what I heard in theretoo is also being able
to be open to that mindset shiftand reframing that, you know,
you could have, I imagine,got really stuck in there
(44:27):
of, you know, these arethings that are happening to me.
You know, this isn'twhat I wanted.
Yeah.
My dreams aren't comingtrue. Right.
Rather than being ableto kind of see, you know,
especially now, like, gosh,that helped me.
Like, even though I was boredout of out of my mind, you know,
look at what I was able to dobecause of that experience.
You're right.
And I wish I could tell youthat I was right there
(44:49):
the whole time.
I was not yeah, I was not.
But looking back, I'mable to see.
Wow.
It's really amazing that,you know, that I got that
experience, you know, going backto, like, basically giving up
my career for him.
For family.
Yeah.
Time going back to time again.
(45:12):
You know what most people,I think for myself.
Time is valuable.
Valuable to me.
Yeah.
And that's, I like to connectwith my spouse.
What time?
Needs to be quality time.
Yeah. Yeah.
And I don't think our childrenare different.
And I think that's such aquick reminder that like
(45:33):
you said, that our kid is or,or just that they're human too,
and they're not necessarilyany different than us.
And smaller version.
Just a smaller version.
They may have you know, itmay come out differently,
but it's not necessarilythe core of it.
A whole lot of change.
Rest of us are just thosethose tiny kids that want to
(45:53):
feel loved and respectedand safe.
Right.
Yeah.
It's like, you know, one of the,one of the kind of principles
in this, in psychotherapythat I use really focuses on,
we all want to felt sense ofsecurity.
Yeah.
You know, at our core,that's what we want.
And so, people are goingto experience it differently.
(46:15):
Yeah.
Absolutely.
And going back into thatchecking in, is this landing
for you in that way so that wecan adjust as needed
to just really make surethat whomever we are, you know,
engaging with at that momentin time is able to,
like you said, feel thatthat sense of security in a way
that they need it. Right.
(46:36):
There it is.
Yeah.
And the way that they need.
Yeah.
Because, you know even there'slots of twin studies
out there. Yes.
And you know, two twins grown upin the same exact household
want two different things.
I reference that all the time.
Much on my clients as wellbecause it's it's a perfect
example.
And sometimes people go,well, you know, they saw
the same thing.
(46:56):
And, you know, we're really goodat comparing ourselves to other
people.
Well, you know, if, if,if it wasn't difficult
for them, then, you know,might be something wrong with me
that I'm having such difficulty.
Right.
But again, those studiesshow that it's not necessarily
about kind of all of the,you know, external things.
You could go through somethingcompletely the same in
every way, shape or formand still have a very different
(47:19):
experience because you'rea different human.
Absolutely.
We're all different.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
I know you mentioned being alearned person, like education.
Were there any resources, booksor support services that you
found during your journeythat were really helpful
that any, you know, parent who'smaybe kind of in a in
the same boat.
(47:41):
That you would recommend.
Yeah.
I, I really loved the FourAgreements.
Okay.
I, I haven't read it exactly.
This is now a couple times thatit's come up.
So that's probably time for meto read it again. Okay.
I really love that book.
I think the one that reallystarted to shift my mindset
very, very early aroundlike 2008 was a book called
(48:05):
Change Your Mind and Your LifeWill follow.
Oh, wow.
Can you give like a little briefsynopsis.
Right. Yeah.
It's it's really about the, theunderstanding that, you know,
like we talk about like wantingto protect our kids from
falling or, you know,getting hurt like I have this,
this, this kind of, thislittle story that I like
(48:26):
to tell it.
My son, I didn't want him toever get hurt.
So I would, like, follow himaround his life. Yeah.
And when it looks like he'sabout to lose bounce, I'll toss
a mattress under himso he doesn't feel the
weight. Yeah.
But what I realized was,when I do that, I'm taking
the opportunity from himto experience pain.
And for him to experiencehis own understanding,
have his own consequence.
(48:47):
And so this book reallyhelped me to understand that I
was over functioning.
And as long as I'm overfunctioning he is going
to continue to underfunctioning.
Yeah.
He will not learn.
He will not adapt.
He will not grow.
And it really helped me to kindof divide like you know
I like this I like to share thisvisualization that, I'm
(49:10):
a whole person.
And if I see myself as a humanand you're a whole person
and you're in the loop.
You know if we'rein a relationship
we don't become one giant.
You know you have to havereally fast tips to get that,
keep that thing off the ground.
You know who I'm a who live.
And having really detachmenthaving that you know we want to
(49:33):
be together with the personwe want to be with our
family, our, our childrenwant to be with us.
We don't have to create thisover dependance.
Yeah.
It sounds like even goingback to again that idea
of putting your mask on first,that it it's okay.
And it almost sounds likenecessary for you to kind of
(49:53):
have your own, your ownhula-hoop, your own identity.
To be able to not only give youopportunity to thrive.
It also sounds like being ableto leave space for them to find
their own way to thrivingas well.
That's it.
Yeah.
That's fine.
Find a find a new waythat works.
(50:14):
I mean, that's all.
That's how our how our societyhas been based.
You know, we had chalkboards,now we have iPads.
You can write on the iPadand it projects to them.
Know we have those smart boardsthat they have that all
came from.
Wait a second.
Why are we using this stuff.
(50:34):
And it's you have to take timeto reset the whole class.
Yeah. Yeah.
Curiosity.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
And allowing allowing that spacelike you said, for them
to develop their ownthoughts, their own problem
solving skills, it sounds like.
Absolutely.
And, you know, empower.
Bring them that.
(50:54):
Hey, you've got this.
It may feel uncomfortablefor both parent and kids
to be able to kind of step backa little bit and have
more of that hands off.
Yeah.
And it might may hurt the hearta little bit to see them fall.
But being able to, to reallykind of look at that
bigger picture, like yousaid, that there, there
is purpose in that.
We're creating and cultivatingthat environment for them
(51:17):
to be able to to growinto these, these thriving
human beings.
And I feel like most parents,you know, when you ask
them, that's what they want.
That's exactly what we want.
We just have our idea of howwe're going to get you there.
Exactly.
And oftentimes it's notaccurate.
Yeah. Yeah.
Well, I love that.
And I thank you so muchfor being willing to kind
of share that story with me.
Share this recipe.
(51:38):
It smells delicious.
So I'm so excited to pop itin the oven.
And then my little brownsugar crumble on top of it.
Well, thank you so muchfor being willing to do this.
I know it was out of yourcomfort zone.
So thank you for steppingout. Thank you.
It wasn't it wasn'tpainful. Yes.
Did it?
Thank you for the opportunity.
Yes.
Absolutely.
(51:59):
All right, folks, thank youso much for tuning in today.
And we'll see you next time.
If you or anyone that you knowis struggling with any of
the topics that we discussed intoday's episode, make sure
to check out our show notesfor support and resources.
You can get help.
Thanks again for joining uson today's episode of
(52:19):
The Real Family Eats.
If you're a parent readyto share your real life
parenting story, make sure toreach out to us and our website
found in the show notes.
And that goes for today's recipesocial media's support
and resources.
All of that can be foundin our show notes.
So make sure to check them outand make sure to follow.
Like, share, subscribe and stayup to date on all things
(52:44):
the real family eats.
I hope you'll join us next timefor more food for thought
and thoughtful food.
Enjoy your eats!
When the military told methat I had one year
to resolve the, humanitarianchallenges.
I heard that as I needed tofind a wife in a year.
Hey, everyone.
Thanks for joining me.
My name is Reesa, and I'myour host.
(00:22):
We are talking to real familiesabout real stories here on the
real family eats, where we'vegot food for thought
and thoughtful food.
So let's eat.
(00:44):
Hey, everyone.
Thank you for joining us today.
I'm so excited.
We have John here to chatwith us.
John, thank you so muchfor being a guest on the show
today.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Yes, absolutely.
I'm so excited to hear aboutyour story.
Also this recipe.
But before we do that,for anybody who doesn't
know you, could you introduceyourself for us?
(01:05):
Absolutely.
My name is John Bacon Gilbert.
I'm a licensed virtual familytherapist.
I have a practice, in San Diegoas well as Marietta.
And, I'm just, really excitedto be able to have
the opportunity to help couples,as well as individuals with,
challenges they're experiencing.
Wonderful.
So, shameless plug sectionfor anybody that might need
(01:27):
your services.
In San Diego.
Marietta, do you also do virtualas well?
Absolutely, yes. Okay.
So all of California.
Yes. Wonderful.
So how can somebody find yourin your social.
Right. Yeah.
So you can find me on Instagram.
Couple connection SB throughemail you can contact me info
(01:47):
couple connection sb.com.
Wonderful.
And we'll make sure to haveall those links for you
on the show notes.
So make sure to check that out.
Okay.
So tell me about this recipe.
Why did you choose this recipeand kind of what we're going
to be making today?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
So you know a little bitabout myself, my, my, my mom,
(02:10):
was the in-home daycare provider.
Oh, was growing up.
And she absolutely loved to makelove to, you know,
she would make all of my cakes.
She would make, aroundthe holidays.
She would do dinner rollsand cinnamon rolls. Okay.
And this is something thatkind of just, you know, happened
throughout the, throughoutthe year.
It wasn't just specific aroundthat particular holiday. Okay.
(02:34):
And I always lovethe smell of it when it was
when she was baking.
Sometimes I remember coming homefrom school and you could
almost smell it before you camein the house as, like,
a freshman.
Hannah. Bread.
Yes.
And it's really important cuzI have a, a 26 year old son,
and he's made it our pastarecipe. Really?
Oh, I love that.
Okay, well, I'm so excited to tolearn this.
(02:56):
And so I definitely I thinkbanana bread is also a staple
in our home.
But I think my recipe isa little bit different, so I'm
super excited to try this one.
So tell me what the steps areand I'll get things going
while we chat today. Sure.
Yeah, it's it's really simple.
That's one of the reasonswhy I like it.
Yeah.
You really just take all theingredients, with the exception
(03:17):
of the the brown sugar, okay?
And you toss it in the,in the bowl, mix it up for
about 30s.
And, you know, you usethe pan, okay.
And pour it in the pan.
Wonderful.
And so your oven what do you setyour oven.
Three 5050 okay.
About how long do you normally,using go for about 40 minutes.
(03:38):
Okay.
And then I take it outand that's fine, but the,
brown sugar, I kind of sprinklethe brown sugar, which is
optional. Okay.
I like things to be a little bitsweeter.
Yeah.
And, and then put itback in there for, you know,
15 to 20 minutes.
Ooh.
We use the the toothpick stickthat in there.
If it comes out clean,it's done.
Yeah.
And I love that.
Such a different take again,that's very different from what
(04:00):
I've ever had.
Is that like like you said,that brown sugar kind of
almost crust on it. Yes.
Yeah.
That's yummy.
Okay.
Well I can do that.
I can plug and play.
While I'm doing that,I love to hear, I know one of
the stories that you'rewilling to share with us
is a little bit about yourjourney in single dad life,
and kind of, especially inthe beginning, some of those
(04:23):
struggles that you were kindof having to navigate.
Right? Yeah.
So can you tell me a little bitabout about that piece and,
and what that look like.
Sure.
Yeah, I well, first of all,I never thought I was
going to be a single dad.
It all kind of just,just happened very quickly.
You know, how quicklyare talking.
(04:45):
Probably within maybewithin three might.
Well, I got custody of my sonwhen he was three.
Okay.
And so, my wife and I startedto experiencing some challenges
in the relationship.
Really.
You know, within six monthsof marriage.
Wow. Yeah.
And I was I was in the military,I was deployed, and, I, I always
(05:07):
I remember having this.
I found a postcard in one of mytravels, and and it was a,
a picture of, like, a sweater.
Dogs, like husband,a team of dogs.
Okay.
And it said the viewnever changes.
I'm sorry if you're notthe lead dog with you.
Never changes.
And I remember I hadmy son's name and my wife's name
(05:28):
there, and I really hadthis drive and determination
to just be, know, to succeed, toto have a different life.
Because at the time,I was deployed to Antarctica.
Oh, yeah.
So you you went realfar out there.
Absolutely.
Really far.
And, and so when I, when Icame home, that's only from
(05:50):
my deployment.
That's when I really startedexperiencing some, some
challenges.
And, and we ended up,splitting up.
And then not long after that,I, I said, you know,
I want custody, and I,I at the time had orders to,
air station, Cape Cod,Massachusetts.
Okay.
My wife was in SouthernCalifornia.
(06:11):
And so, like I said,I told them, I said, I'll take
anything in Southern California.
And not long after that,I got custody.
And, and it was a challenge to,to go from a life of military
where I'm expectedto be available to the
to the country.
Yeah.
And to be, you know,not have anyone really to
care for him.
(06:32):
So it was a big struggle.
So were you still inthe military by this point
that you're you havefull custody?
Yes, absolutely.
I wow.
I was and I, I gotwhat was called a humanitarian
transfer.
So they put me on land,and said, you have a year to
kind of resolve this issue,so to speak.
Really? Yeah.
(06:53):
Yeah.
And so but yeah, I had a familywith them the whole time.
Okay.
So talk to me a little bit aboutnavigating that, because
parenting just in generalis hard.
When we start out now, you'readding on not only one,
but several layers of thingsthat are a challenge.
(07:15):
And so I'm really curious,kind of what did that look like
for you and kind of what wasgoing on for you mentally, even?
Yeah.
You know, I think one ofthe things it's important
to recognize this was my sonwas born in 97.
Okay. And, and, times havechanged a lot.
And I'm a therapist todayI have a different understanding
about what a relationship lookslike, but.
(07:37):
But at the time, I really hadthis sense that my job was to be
a provider.
And so I wasn't really deployinga whole heck of a lot of
emotional support.
And so I had my main focus wasbeing provider.
And so when the military told methat I had one year to resolve
the humanitarian challenges,and, I heard that as I needed
(07:59):
to find a wife in a year.
So really, I needed somebodyto help help me with that
process. Yeah.
And, and, you know, I rose tothe occasion because, again,
I was focused on on beingthe best father I could.
And part of that was, you know,taking the sacrifice
if I needed to, to, providesomebody in his life that could
(08:21):
they could help shoulderthe burden with me. Yeah.
Can you tell me a littlebit more about how how
that narrative kind of cameabout for you?
Like you said that whenwhen you heard, you know,
you got a year, it was a yearto find somebody else, right?
Kind of in that positionto talk to me a little bit
more about that.
It was it was pretty.
(08:41):
It was absolutely 100% rootedin my my necessity to provide.
Okay.
I really enjoyed being inthe military.
That was, I didn't make awhole heck of a lot of money,
but that was the most moneyI had made in my life
at that time.
And I really saw it as a sourceof stability.
Okay, that I would be ableto provide medical insurance,
I'd be able to provide,you know, a secure environment.
(09:05):
And, so that's that's reallythe mindset I was in was like
wanting to providestability and, and give him
as much, a safe space as hecould have.
Yeah.
And so it sounds like in thatmind frame going back and like
you said, being able to go backinto the military and provide in
that way was kind ofhow you saw.
Absolutely.
It needed to go. Right.
(09:26):
So walk us through that.
Is that how it went?
How did that kind of work out?
Not exactly, not exactly.
Now, as many, many people canprobably imagine, you know, a
marriage that starts outwith that kind of pressure,
there was a lot of pressureon it, and it didn't
last very long.
Yeah.
(09:47):
However I did, I ended upgetting stationed on land. Okay.
And so that kind of renewsthat necessity to have
somebody there.
So I, I was a single father for,for quite a few years.
Wow. Yeah.
Was that difficult toto shift that because if
as you're mentioning so was the,the next partner still
(10:09):
in the picture during this yearor were you doing that kind
of also.
Wow. Yeah.
Know that that that next partnermoved back to her hometown.
Got it.
So I mean, what was thatlike for you to kind of
have to have that shift?
You're going into it with likethat mindset, as you mentioned,
kind of provider, and nowyou're having to kind of put
(10:31):
on multiple hats.
I imagine.
Yeah, it was it was a challenge.
It was it was a challengebecause I, you know, I'd like to
believe that when we turn 18that suddenly we get a,
a new program downloaded inour brain that tell us
when to be, you know, how to bean adult.
You're an adult now,and then you have a child.
(10:51):
Okay?
You're a parent now?
Yeah.
I didn't get that download.
I don't know if you knowApple. Mr..
Well, let me know.
So we got one of thoseevery time we had a new,
you know, life transition thing.
So it was it was difficult.
It was, it was I have thisjoke that, well, he was
he was born in December,and I have this picture of me
(11:12):
holding him next to theChristmas tree, and people
see it and they say, wow,it looks like a baby raising
the baby.
And I was like, exactly.
Wow.
So it was really challenging.
So I really consider myson to be my best teacher.
He really taught me alot about life, about how to be
a parent.
You know, how to show updifferently for him.
(11:33):
So it was really learningthe process.
He was he was a teacher.
Is that an insight that took youa while to get to a long time?
Yeah.
Yeah, I, I wasn't thinking thatat the time.
Yeah, yeah.
At the time I was thinking like,you know, the important things
that I had known, as, you know,essentially I was giving my son
(11:53):
the relationship with meand giving him the things
that I didn't have as a father.
So I was trying to give him ofparenting help and how I wanted
to parent.
Yeah.
Can you say a little bit moreabout that.
Yeah, absolutely.
I, I grew up loving all sports.
I, I especially loved baseballand from the, from the
(12:14):
earliest age, I could rememberjust begging my dad to come out
like catch with me, right?
I had no interest in sportswhatsoever.
You know, I distinctlyremember him oftentimes saying,
not now, son, I'm busy now.
And, I remember being about13 years old, you know, tears
streaming down my facebecause I just wanted to
connect with my dad any wayI could.
(12:35):
And, and I said, I wishwhen I have a child, it's
going to be different.
He said that even out loud.
Yeah.
Wow. Yeah.
And and I remember whenmy son came, I, I really felt
this sense of like, okay, I'mgoing to prove this.
I'm. And, so when my son wasreally old enough to stand,
I had a wiffle ballbat in his hand and throwing him
(12:57):
wiffle balls in the house.
Coached him all through theLittle League.
We won a couple of,championships together.
And when he was 12, hesaid, dad, he says, I don't
like baseball.
You do?
Wow. Yeah.
And it was that that hit hard.
It's it continues to hit hardevery time I see.
I can feel chillsright now. Wow.
Yeah, yeah, it really hit hard.
(13:20):
And that's what I mean by, like,being the teacher
that I realized in that momentthat I had left my son
feeling the same exact way.
My dad left me feelingbecause my son wasn't interested
in baseball.
Yeah.
So how where do yougo from there?
Because that's a pretty bigblow.
(13:42):
You know, it sounds likeyou went into kind of with this
mindset, I'm going to be a dadthat I didn't have.
And, you know, for you,it sounds like it presented in
that kind of I'm going toconnect with you over sports
and do all these things where,like you said, it sounds like,
you know, his his feedbackwas this isn't necessarily for
me what Lanza's connection.
(14:06):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
It was a big eye opener.
You know what?
I one of the things I hadalways made an effort to instill
in him is that we don't quit.
And, so I, you know, he wantedto drop out of seasons
before, and I said, nowjust just finish the season.
And when he told me that we werein the middle of his final year
in Little League and I said,you don't have to go to
(14:28):
another game.
Wow.
That's that's a big difference.
Especially, like you said,if you have that mindset of
we don't quit to being ableto receive that, I'm grateful
that I was able to receive it.
Yeah.
Grateful that I was in a spacein my life that I was able
to hear that messageand recognize that that
I had made a similar mistakeand I didn't want to do that.
(14:49):
So it was about finding waysto connect with him
that he wanted to do.
What do I look like?
How did you make thoseconnections?
Yeah, really.
You know, I'd like to tell youthat at the time, I sat down
with a pen and paperand I asked him how to connect.
Yeah, that's what I wouldsuggest today.
That's the hindsight.
(15:10):
But really, what it lookedlike was me being more available
to him.
He loved sushi.
And so we would go on these,sushi dates.
Okay.
And, he really loved foodin general, but, you know,
sushi was one of them.
And so we would go out todinner often, you know, he,
really enjoys video games.
(15:31):
And, you know, up until thattime in life, I really was
against him having even a videoconsole in the house.
Okay, yeah, I thought so.
That was a skill or use of time.
I ended up buying hima video console and, allowed
him to, you know,kind of explore that part
of his life.
And so really just asking himfor the feedback of what
(15:53):
what how does he want to spendhis time? Yeah.
I'm so curious how you were ableto make that transition,
because I feel like,especially some of the older
generation I've heard that from,you know, now, now adults
kind of with this ideathat asking for feedback
or even being open to the ideathat children can teach us
as an adult is such ahard concept for some people
(16:17):
to be able to accept or,you know, be open to.
And so I'm so curious,like, for you in your journey,
how did you get to that placeto be able to kind of almost
have the humility, it soundslike, to just see those things.
Yeah.
Interesting choice of wordsthat it was humility.
Yeah, it really was.
And and again, I didn't feelthat at the time.
(16:39):
I really felt broken.
I really felt brokenbecause like, everything I
had thought, you know, I mean,mind you, when I had my son,
I went to parenting classes.
As you know, I'm 21 years old,going to parenting classes.
Wow.
Really, really sort,understanding and and wanting
(17:00):
to have, be able to set that,that intention for him.
So it was really,I just realized I forgot your
question. Yeah.
Just how you were able to get tothat place of humility.
Yes, yes, yes.
You know, I, I would say thatit's probably, One of the, one
(17:20):
of the things that wehaven't talked about
was my struggle with alcohol.
Okay.
And, right around that age,it was about ten years
when I stopped drinkingalcohol. Okay.
And so this was when he was 12,and so I, I had not
been drinking for a little whileand had gained more humility
through that process. Wow.
(17:41):
That, you know, it's always beena challenge.
One of the things that'sreally tough I really struggle
with is asking for help.
It wasn't something that my dador anybody ever said.
Don't you dare ask for help.
It was something that I thinkwas just implied.
And I took it.
Yeah, yeah.
For you, what were someof the ways that it was implied?
Because I think that's that'ssuch a key piece that I heard
(18:03):
so many parents ask for that.
We kind of get into this,this tunnel vision of not
asking for, yeah.
That's that's a great that'sa great question because
I really I think some ofthe things that my dad would do,
I would, I do remember askingfor help. Okay.
(18:24):
And quite often I was deniedhim, you know.
Yeah.
I remember specifically.
So my dad's not interestedin sports, very interested
in, computers.
Okay. And so I rememberasking my dad for a computer
(18:45):
to connect.
Yeah.
And he bought me this.
Broken down.
Like, I think it was like aCommodore 64.
Okay, so really, really early.
Yeah.
World.
And, think I said, dad,you know, how do I get this
thing working?
And he says, well, you gottafigure it out.
(19:06):
And that's how he learned.
Yeah, he learned by figuringit out.
And my intention for that wasI wanted to sit down.
Let's do this together.
Yeah I'll watch you.
And that didn't happen.
Yeah.
And and it's interestingbecause I noticed myself
at a certain point in my son'slife, he would ask me questions
and I would say hey we'vegot this amazing tool
(19:27):
called Google that.
Yeah.
So I was essentially doing thesame thing to him in a
different way with, you know,the use of technology.
And I think what's sointeresting that you mention
that is the fact that I findso many of us parents, I do it
myself, where sometimes I missthose bits for connection
(19:48):
because I don't necessarilysee it in that lens.
Like like you said, whetherit's, hey, can you teach me
how to, you know, powerthis computer, or asking
a question, wanting to havea conversation.
You know, sometimes it can bereally easy for us as parents
if you live, you know, imagineyou also as a single day.
(20:09):
Imagine that was really busy.
And so then, you know,kind of see these things and,
and remember that this is themtrying to make that connection
can be really difficult.
I imagine those those I'm gladyou said that.
Those missed IDs for connection,are so vital.
Yes. So vital.
(20:29):
I, I can't tell you.
I'm certain I missso many of them, but I,
I'm getting better at it.
And that's been throughthe humility of my son,
you know, having to I continueto have a relationship with him.
You know, just recentlyhe asked me, he says,
dad, can I.
I want to come up to your house,and I want you to help me paint
the inside of my jeep.
(20:49):
Well, and I'm, like, thinkingin my mind, I really don't
want to do that.
That's not how I envisionedspending my Saturday.
Yes.
And, you know, and mymy inclination is to tell him
how to do it.
Okay.
So but then I realizedit's not about getting it done.
It's about the connection thathe's craving.
(21:09):
And so he came up and wepainted it together.
It didn't end up beingmaybe more fulfilling
than when you initially kindof heard let's this team
definitely.
Yeah definitely.
I think I think definitelyfor him more so than me.
Okay.
You know, I have I have atwo year old son is
(21:32):
as well as him.
And so I'm, I'm kind of feelalmost pulled in two directions
having the, the, the mindsetthat the missed opportunities
I had when my older sonwas young and not wanting
to duplicate those mistakesof my gender.
So, yeah, I mean, how do younavigate that balance, like you
(21:52):
said, of of not only multiplechildren, but you've
got like you said, they'rethey're quite different ages.
So they're into differentthings.
So it's not one of those,you know, we can do it
all together and have everybody,you know, come by.
I'm right.
So how you how you navigatethat balance.
Well part of it's builtin my older son lives about
(22:14):
an hour away.
Okay.
But when he comes to visitor I go to visit him,
my younger son comes with.
Okay.
And they both, you know,my older son loves seeing my
younger son.
And my younger son gets a bigsmile on his face and says
his name and goes runningto him.
Oh, wow.
(22:34):
And so it's it's kind of aspecial bond.
Yeah, that soundsreally special.
So I'm really curious,and I'd love to go back,
if that's okay with youkind of talking about, your,
your journey as far asalcoholism in conjunction
then with also single dad andand kind of did that play a part
(22:55):
in some of your journey.
How so like like resorting toalcohol because I was stressed
or or overwhelmed.
It could be that oreven just maybe impacting,
you know, going backto the connection where
some of those things were lostbecause because the, you know,
the alcohol was maybe the,the choice in that moment.
(23:15):
Like, what did that look likefor you?
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, I can remember there weretimes early when I, when I
first got custody of him.
Okay.
My focus was, you know,I knew that I was supposed
to read my child a bedtimestory, okay?
And I would catch myselfskipping pages so I could
(23:38):
hurry up and get throughthe story because I wanted to go
and take some time for myselfto recharge with alcohol.
Really? Yeah.
And so how as far as, like,your sobriety and your journey
there was that difficultto navigate, getting to
that place where you were ableto overcome and able to get to
(24:02):
that place of sobriety,while also having some of the
just routines, stressors ofbeing a parent and having
to, like, show up because Iimagine, you know, with between
withdrawals and just cravingsand everything and having
to do that in conjunction withbeing present as a parent,
it was definitely a challenge.
Yeah, it was a challengebecause I had the awareness,
(24:25):
having a sober mind that,that I needed to be
more present, but alsoknowing that I needed to treat
myself.
I needed to take care of myselfand, and, you know, and
treat my soul.
Yeah.
And so it's almost like that,another one of those
double lines where it's like,okay, you need to
spend more time with your son.
(24:45):
You get the clarity of that.
But then also the recognitionand the realization that I
also need to take careof myself.
Yeah.
You know, it's like thatwhen you fly.
They say you're travelingwith children.
Put your mask on first.
I always use, No, I'mnot doing that on him first.
Yeah.
But that's that's reallyhelped me to understand probably
(25:06):
more now as a therapist andunderstanding that, if I'm
not, well, if I don't take careof myself the night before,
getting a good night's rest,prepping for my clients
the next day, you know,going into it with really this
intentionality, I'm notgoing to be that great.
Yeah.
(25:27):
I mean, to have even justgoing back to that,
maybe our word for todayabout humility and being able
to say that, that, you know, ifif I can't necessarily take care
of myself, I don't I won't havethe capacity to be able
to show up in the way thatI really want to.
(25:47):
Not only that, but thinkingabout how do I demonstrate
that to my son?
So then he understands it's okayto prioritize yourself.
Yeah, that's a greata great point.
Was that helpful for youas far as that reframe?
It was an he's yeah.
He's doing a great job with it.
(26:08):
I'm I'm already readingbooks now.
So my son, my younger son, that,you know, one of the
lines in the book says it's okayif I hurt someone's feelings
when I say no.
Yes.
What a concept.
Right? Right.
It's not something that wasever driven into my mind
as a young child.
It was always like,let's say that you're going
(26:30):
to hurt somebody feelings.
You're going to hurt someone'sfeelings.
It's a disappointment.
You know, it's going to causesomething else in someone else.
Absolutely.
Yeah, yeah.
Causal I guess I controlother people's feelings.
Yeah.
And man when we get in that mindframe, it gives us so much
control over other people'semotions or vice versa.
(26:50):
If we're kind of givingthat power away.
Right.
And that oh you made mefeel these different
things. Right.
Gosh man, if we all had thatsuper power, I think the world
would be so much different.
It would be, it would be.
But I think it starts,you know, it starts really?
Yeah.
You know, I mean, a littlepersonal development right now
(27:11):
and it, it it shows this,this diagram of what
we look like in our, at ouryoung age.
And it's kind of it'salmost like a horseshoe.
Okay.
This is our subconsciousis open to anything at
that point.
Yeah.
And so right now at this age,this is when children are taking
in that, that, that, shape theirparadigm, shape the way that
their mind works. Yeah.
(27:31):
To say, oh, I have to say yes,even though I want to say
no right now.
So I'm super curious, youknow, even along those lines
because you could havevery easily rested in that.
Like this is what I was shownthis is what shapes my paradigm
and kind of just, you know,wash your hands of it
(27:52):
and said, well, this is allI can do.
And it sounds like, you know,I heard you mentioned going out
and and attending classesand trying to gain information,
and it sounds like a real drivefor something different
that you maybe didn't knowwhat that different look like.
But hey, I'm going tosearch it out.
And so I'm curious, how did youget to that point that, like you
(28:13):
said, instead of just kindof resting?
Well, this is all I know.
You know, I really I've alwaysbeen hungry to understand.
I've been.
I've been hungry.
You know, curiosity.
I want to, I had a guidancecounselor in college,
and so, John, she said you'relike a windup toy.
I just want you up and pointingin the right direction.
(28:34):
You're going to achievewhatever it is you need to even
I understand that to.
I like to have guides.
I like to know where I'm going.
I like to, you know,get clarity.
And so I've always been kind of,you know, I read a lot of
self-help books, a lotof personal development books
that really, kind of quenchthat thirst within me
to do better.
And really, what I've,what I've come to understand
(28:57):
in all the classes,all the all the trainings, all
the books is our family,our children.
Those are the conversationsthat need to happen.
You're asking them, whatdo you want?
You know, not just whatdo you want?
Because most of the time,what do you want?
(29:18):
Well, I want to play stationright?
I want a pony.
Right? Yeah.
But asking more directedquestions like, what is it
that I do that leavesyou feeling like, what is it
that what events or whatway that I talk to you?
What what activity that we dotogether leaves you feeling
special?
(29:38):
Yeah.
No more questions alongthose lines of just getting to
stepping outside of thematerial world.
Not things, but actual memories.
Yeah, feelings.
What I love about that, too.
Not only is it an openended question, but it it's
(29:59):
going beyond that.
How is your day?
Wearing it makes it really easyfor our kiddos.
Like fine okay.
One word and they're gone.
You know, and it doesn'tnecessarily give you
the consent, nor does itreally allow an opportunity
for going back to kindof venture connection.
Versus like you said somethingthat's what's going on in your,
(30:20):
in our world or you know,what feedback that you
can give me as far ashow is this landing for you.
And, and doing that, you know,in a way that it sounds like
really trying to cultivatea relationship versus
just kind of resting onyou're my kid, I'm your parent.
So naturally we havea relationship, right?
(30:42):
Right, right.
Yeah.
I'm supposed to interactwith you this way.
Yeah.
It's really importantto get their their feeling.
Yeah.
You know, I think mostparents will be surprised.
I was surprised when I startedask those questions.
Yeah, yeah.
Was there something specificthat surprised you most?
(31:03):
Time.
Time.
My my my oldest son.
He just wants my time.
He wants my appreciation.
You know, he wantsmy acceptance.
Not long ago, he.
Well, I guess it's actuallybeen a couple years now.
He called me up, and he says.
Daddy says I'm going toget a dog.
And in my head, I'm thinkingthis is the worst idea
he's ever had.
(31:24):
He has no business owning a dog.
But what came out of my mouthwas that's great, son.
You'll be an excellentdog owner.
And he is fabulous.
Wow. Yeah.
And it sounds likein that moment really kind
of challenging yourselfto move away from that
instinctual kind of likejudgment of all the ways
I could go wrong.
(31:45):
Absolutely.
And I think that's part of whatthat fear that comes
from parents.
You know, I can remember being,I think I was about 13 or 14
years old, and I told my momI had a drafting class in junior
high, okay.
And I came home.
I said, mom, I want to bean architect.
My mom had always told meshe was like, you can be
anything you want to be,just whatever you put your
(32:06):
mind to.
And when I told herthat she said, oh thanks
a lot of college.
You got to be really goodat math.
And I was terrible math. Yeah.
And that was really, I thinkthe first time I ever heard
of college, it wasn'tsomething that was discussed
in her household at all.
And that just kind of likesmash it down.
(32:28):
Oh yeah.
I recognize times when I've hadconversations with my son
about that and he says, oh,I want to do this or do that.
And my inclination isto protect him from being
disappointed.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think that and I love thatyou said that because often
times when, when thesethings happen, it's not
(32:51):
that we're going into itas parents with this like evil
mindset.
I want to like bash my child'sdreams.
I don't think that I'vereally ever met a parent that
but that often it does come fromthat place, like you said,
of trying to protect them.
And it doesn't necessarilyland that way because, you know,
(33:12):
we're human, we're individuals.
And, you know, that there hasI think there needs to be
that space for curiosity.
There needs to be that space forpossibility.
Absolutely, absolutely.
Yeah.
I always joke sometimeswith my couples that come in
and I say, I've never hada couple come to me
and say, John, we just hada newborn baby.
Can you help us groom up?
(33:33):
Yeah, absolutely.
My office is filled with peoplewho had difficult childhoods,
were misunderstood and weren'ttreated the way they wanted
to be treated.
Yeah, that's why I really lovekind of.
Again, you taking it back?
And I think that's such a greatlittle nugget.
I'm taking it back to the kiddosand really getting that feedback
and having that open dialoginstead of looking at them is,
(33:54):
you know, your subordinate.
No way am I going to takeyour feedback right now.
Your kid would, you know, I feellike it's so easy to kind of
get trapped in that mindset,but really to have
a conversation with them and arespectful one where they're
getting to see that, hey, like,if my parents think I'm worth
asking my opinion.
(34:15):
Yes.
You know, talking to melike a human, gosh,
what does that meanabout when I go out into
the world, you know, and whatI deserve, right? Yeah.
I mean, I was raised in the eraof children or to be seen
and not heard.
Yeah.
And I was spanked.
My mom broke many women spoonsall over my butt.
(34:38):
Very wooden spoons that we'respending with right now.
Oh yeah I know the woodenspoon. Yeah.
And, And really what, thatI really feel like it,
it crushes a lot of creativity.
It really smashes down.
That hurt inside of me.
And it says less now.
Why not me.
Yeah. Yeah yeah I canremember in early in, in my life
(35:03):
we would drive from Californiato Oregon to visit family.
And my dad's objective was toget there as soon as we could.
So you could brag abouthow quickly we got there.
Yeah. And, you know, whatthat was like for me was that
I got to go to the bathroom.
Okay, couple more exits and thenten miles, 15 minutes
(35:23):
down the road that I still hadto go.
Yeah okay.
Just hang on, hang on.
Next.
And what that what thattaught me.
I didn't have this consciousthought then.
But what it taught mewhen I reflect on it
today is when my word wow.
Yeah.
I'm not valued.
It means nothing.
And and it's hard.
You know that's a, that's aI wouldn't say it's a constant
(35:45):
battle.
It's a battle that I'm, I'mgradually overcoming but it's
still there.
It's still in my mind.
It's my really worth it.
Yeah.
And again I mean I think that'sa perfect example where
it doesn't necessarily have tobe something huge, kind of life
altering where you look atand you go oh yeah that's where,
that's where it all went wrong.
(36:06):
Yeah.
You know, it could besomething like you said,
where it's that that subtlekind of I've got my
mind elsewhere, and I'mnot necessarily listening to the
little ones in my carin this instance.
And what what messages does thatsend to them?
Even the really little onesthat could become very
big pieces of your your corebeliefs about yourself?
(36:31):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
That is you nailed it.
Yeah.
I'm so curious when youkind of made that shift, kind of
going back to that,that self-care piece.
And was there a particularmoment that you were able
to kind of move from,from maybe, you know, resting on
some of these ideas to beingable to say, I am worth it.
(36:57):
I don't know if there's anymoment in any particular shift
that occurred.
It's been a gradualtransformation.
You know psychologistWilliam James says that we
we can have something calleda educational experience,
(37:17):
which is like over time it's nota sudden.
Yeah.
No massive change that weexperience right in us.
But it's just over time.
And that's, that's reallywhat's been happening
for me over the years.
It's been this, just havingfaith, just pushing. Okay.
Let me try this.
Let me put this this thingright here.
This is super.
This is not somethingI would have never done.
Yes.
(37:37):
You know, but when youinvited me to do it, I was like,
yes, yes.
You know, and this is what thepersonal development I'm
going through right nowis, is saying it's like when an
opportunity presents itself.
Try it.
Yeah.
You know, I mean it couldbe terrible.
I could, I could neverdo another one.
Hopefully not.
Or it could be amazing. Yeah.
(37:58):
And you know, and that's,that has been really the biggest
challenge for me is like.
Almost almost like, you know,a lot of times I'll ask clients
when they hear self-doubt,when they experience self-doubt.
So whose voice is that?
Oh, wait, that's yourmom's voice and how long
(38:19):
you've been gone?
She died in 87.
Oh, yeah.
And so it's like going backto that programing that,
that, that, that, that updatein our systems.
The parent that installedthis idea inside of our head
that says we're notworth anything.
We've long since dismissedanything they've ever said.
(38:39):
We may not even talk to them.
But the program is still therethat we're not worth it.
And we continue willinglydragging that with us. Right.
This bag baggage so heavy.
And just worthless.
Put it down.
Yeah.
And I think just rememberingthat idea that even no choice.
(39:00):
Right.
Is you making some sortof a choice.
And so being able to kind offigure out well in this moment
what choice do you want to make.
Do you want to keep likeyou said dragging it around
or are you ready to put it down.
And really again you may notknow the how to we may not have
the instruction manual becausewe don't get one.
(39:21):
There are resources.
There are ways to kind ofat least try to start
figuring it out.
And like you said, it may notbe like an overnight switch.
And it sounds like even havingsome patience for that, maybe a
little bit of compassion for it.
Well, but it is a journeyin putting.
It sounds like kind of one footin front of the other and
and really starting to walkdifferently, right?
(39:45):
Yeah.
That's exactly, exactly whatit is.
Just humility again.
Yeah.
Where do the day where doesthe day.
Having that humility to justtake a few steps and say,
you know what's going on here?
Yeah.
Reevaluate.
I'm a big believer thatif we just filled the room
with a bunch of peoplethat all agreed the same way,
we're not going to learn a lot.
(40:05):
Yeah.
But if we filled the roomwith people that have different
viewpoints and we explore them.
Okay.
How to get there.
And combine them we run the riskof learning a lot and growing.
Absolutely.
And I think what I really likedabout what you said
there is that what's going onhere.
Really taking a look at itfrom that place of curiosity.
Again another word of the day.
This, you know, this episodesponsored by, but you know,
(40:29):
that curiosity, what isgoing on here and doing
in that way of not judging italready before it's even
happened?
It really kind of saying,hey, I'd like to understand
more.
What, you know, even ifit's emotions like what,
what is this emotion trying totell me in this moment.
Right.
Yeah.
You're exactly right.
And you know we, we we changeour minds.
(40:50):
Or you know everything.
Everything changes. Yeah.
I a very young age, my whenwe moved from Oregon
to California, we moved inwith the family briefly
while we were waiting forour house to become available.
And this family tried all thedifferent types of foods. Okay.
And they try and, I don't know,brussel sprouts.
(41:14):
I did not like brussel sprouts.
Like, there's many peoplethat would agree.
I have to tell you, I love them.
Now.
I didn't I didn't give thema shot.
I think it was about 5or 6 years old.
I, I swore I'd never haveanother brussel sprouts
in my life.
Yeah.
It was probably about maybe 5or 6 years ago.
I, I tried one, and I was like,what?
(41:36):
This is actually really good,right? Yeah.
And so that's, you know,another example of going
back to the drawing board.
Okay.
Do I like this now.
Not just swearing it offthat this is this isn't
this isn't for me.
But having that curiositythat that willingness to try
something.
Yeah.
I imagine that's also usefulkind of in the parenting world
(41:57):
in the sense that as your kidsget older they're likely
also evolving likely changing.
And so maybe what landedfor them is a way of connection
or an interest, even at thebeginning when they're five is
very different than whenthey're 25.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
When you, you know,you're buying Hot Wheels
and or Barbies for yourfor your child when they're
(42:18):
younger, they're not going tolike it so much when they're
25. Yeah. Yeah.
And so I imagine if youstart like if you start
the curiosity and okay, I andI know everything
and you kind of rest on that.
Oh I know what they're goingto say.
I know what they're going to do.
You know, it sounds like you'vealso kind of missed some of
those changes that maybe hey,I didn't like brussel
sprouts before, but absolutely.
(42:39):
Now I really do.
Right.
We continue to evolve.
You know everyone does.
Yeah.
And so let's just say that ourchildren won't even as they
become adults.
Yeah.
If there is so one ofmy favorite questions
that I like to ask is if youhad access to a Delorean,
is there anything, if you couldgo back that you would kind of
tell yourself in preparationfor the single dad journey
(43:02):
that you, you had to navigate?
Yeah.
I really feel like if I wereto go back.
I probably would have given upmy career and just focused
on being a dad.
Wow.
Just focus that on, you know,I mean I kind of essentially
(43:23):
I did do that later onwhen my son was, was he was much
older and I had starteda, I completed my undergrad
program and I went right into mygraduate program, and he
experienced the challenges.
Okay.
And I got real clear.
I got, you know, real claritythat I needed to put my career
on hold.
(43:44):
And I went into a jobthat I didn't really,
really like.
I went into it.
Sorry if there's any guys thatyou like I was bored out
of my school and but ironicallyenough me working in that
IT industry for three yearshelped me to get the internship
that I wanted.
Wow. Yeah.
And so I was like, that's that'sprobably like a big moment
(44:06):
for me is like when I'mexperiencing something that's
discomforting.
Continue pressing on.
Maybe there's a reason.
Maybe there's a purpose for it.
Yeah. Yeah.
I think what I heard in theretoo is also being able
to be open to that mindset shiftand reframing that, you know,
you could have, I imagine,got really stuck in there
(44:27):
of, you know, these arethings that are happening to me.
You know, this isn'twhat I wanted.
Yeah.
My dreams aren't comingtrue. Right.
Rather than being ableto kind of see, you know,
especially now, like, gosh,that helped me.
Like, even though I was boredout of out of my mind, you know,
look at what I was able to dobecause of that experience.
You're right.
And I wish I could tell youthat I was right there
(44:49):
the whole time.
I was not yeah, I was not.
But looking back, I'mable to see.
Wow.
It's really amazing that,you know, that I got that
experience, you know, going backto, like, basically giving up
my career for him.
For family.
Yeah.
Time going back to time again.
(45:12):
You know what most people,I think for myself.
Time is valuable.
Valuable to me.
Yeah.
And that's, I like to connectwith my spouse.
What time?
Needs to be quality time.
Yeah. Yeah.
And I don't think our childrenare different.
And I think that's such aquick reminder that like
(45:33):
you said, that our kid is or,or just that they're human too,
and they're not necessarilyany different than us.
And smaller version.
Just a smaller version.
They may have you know, itmay come out differently,
but it's not necessarilythe core of it.
A whole lot of change.
Rest of us are just thosethose tiny kids that want to
(45:53):
feel loved and respectedand safe.
Right.
Yeah.
It's like, you know, one of the,one of the kind of principles
in this, in psychotherapythat I use really focuses on,
we all want to felt sense ofsecurity.
Yeah.
You know, at our core,that's what we want.
And so, people are goingto experience it differently.
(46:15):
Yeah.
Absolutely.
And going back into thatchecking in, is this landing
for you in that way so that wecan adjust as needed
to just really make surethat whomever we are, you know,
engaging with at that momentin time is able to,
like you said, feel thatthat sense of security in a way
that they need it. Right.
(46:36):
There it is.
Yeah.
And the way that they need.
Yeah.
Because, you know even there'slots of twin studies
out there. Yes.
And you know, two twins grown upin the same exact household
want two different things.
I reference that all the time.
Much on my clients as wellbecause it's it's a perfect
example.
And sometimes people go,well, you know, they saw
the same thing.
(46:56):
And, you know, we're really goodat comparing ourselves to other
people.
Well, you know, if, if,if it wasn't difficult
for them, then, you know,might be something wrong with me
that I'm having such difficulty.
Right.
But again, those studiesshow that it's not necessarily
about kind of all of the,you know, external things.
You could go through somethingcompletely the same in
every way, shape or formand still have a very different
(47:19):
experience because you'rea different human.
Absolutely.
We're all different.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
I know you mentioned being alearned person, like education.
Were there any resources, booksor support services that you
found during your journeythat were really helpful
that any, you know, parent who'smaybe kind of in a in
the same boat.
(47:41):
That you would recommend.
Yeah.
I, I really loved the FourAgreements.
Okay.
I, I haven't read it exactly.
This is now a couple times thatit's come up.
So that's probably time for meto read it again. Okay.
I really love that book.
I think the one that reallystarted to shift my mindset
very, very early aroundlike 2008 was a book called
(48:05):
Change Your Mind and Your LifeWill follow.
Oh, wow.
Can you give like a little briefsynopsis.
Right. Yeah.
It's it's really about the, theunderstanding that, you know,
like we talk about like wantingto protect our kids from
falling or, you know,getting hurt like I have this,
this, this kind of, thislittle story that I like
(48:26):
to tell it.
My son, I didn't want him toever get hurt.
So I would, like, follow himaround his life. Yeah.
And when it looks like he'sabout to lose bounce, I'll toss
a mattress under himso he doesn't feel the
weight. Yeah.
But what I realized was,when I do that, I'm taking
the opportunity from himto experience pain.
And for him to experiencehis own understanding,
have his own consequence.
(48:47):
And so this book reallyhelped me to understand that I
was over functioning.
And as long as I'm overfunctioning he is going
to continue to underfunctioning.
Yeah.
He will not learn.
He will not adapt.
He will not grow.
And it really helped me to kindof divide like you know
I like this I like to share thisvisualization that, I'm
(49:10):
a whole person.
And if I see myself as a humanand you're a whole person
and you're in the loop.
You know if we'rein a relationship
we don't become one giant.
You know you have to havereally fast tips to get that,
keep that thing off the ground.
You know who I'm a who live.
And having really detachmenthaving that you know we want to
(49:33):
be together with the personwe want to be with our
family, our, our childrenwant to be with us.
We don't have to create thisover dependance.
Yeah.
It sounds like even goingback to again that idea
of putting your mask on first,that it it's okay.
And it almost sounds likenecessary for you to kind of
(49:53):
have your own, your ownhula-hoop, your own identity.
To be able to not only give youopportunity to thrive.
It also sounds like being ableto leave space for them to find
their own way to thrivingas well.
That's it.
Yeah.
That's fine.
Find a find a new waythat works.
(50:14):
I mean, that's all.
That's how our how our societyhas been based.
You know, we had chalkboards,now we have iPads.
You can write on the iPadand it projects to them.
Know we have those smart boardsthat they have that all
came from.
Wait a second.
Why are we using this stuff.
(50:34):
And it's you have to take timeto reset the whole class.
Yeah. Yeah.
Curiosity.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
And allowing allowing that spacelike you said, for them
to develop their ownthoughts, their own problem
solving skills, it sounds like.
Absolutely.
And, you know, empower.
Bring them that.
(50:54):
Hey, you've got this.
It may feel uncomfortablefor both parent and kids
to be able to kind of step backa little bit and have
more of that hands off.
Yeah.
And it might may hurt the hearta little bit to see them fall.
But being able to, to reallykind of look at that
bigger picture, like yousaid, that there, there
is purpose in that.
We're creating and cultivatingthat environment for them
(51:17):
to be able to to growinto these, these thriving
human beings.
And I feel like most parents,you know, when you ask
them, that's what they want.
That's exactly what we want.
We just have our idea of howwe're going to get you there.
Exactly.
And oftentimes it's notaccurate.
Yeah. Yeah.
Well, I love that.
And I thank you so muchfor being willing to kind
of share that story with me.
Share this recipe.
(51:38):
It smells delicious.
So I'm so excited to pop itin the oven.
And then my little brownsugar crumble on top of it.
Well, thank you so muchfor being willing to do this.
I know it was out of yourcomfort zone.
So thank you for steppingout. Thank you.
It wasn't it wasn'tpainful. Yes.
Did it?
Thank you for the opportunity.
Yes.
Absolutely.
(51:59):
All right, folks, thank youso much for tuning in today.
And we'll see you next time.
If you or anyone that you knowis struggling with any of
the topics that we discussed intoday's episode, make sure
to check out our show notesfor support and resources.
You can get help.
Thanks again for joining uson today's episode of
(52:19):
The Real Family Eats.
If you're a parent readyto share your real life
parenting story, make sure toreach out to us and our website
found in the show notes.
And that goes for today's recipesocial media's support
and resources.
All of that can be foundin our show notes.
So make sure to check them outand make sure to follow.
Like, share, subscribe and stayup to date on all things
(52:44):
the real family eats.
I hope you'll join us next timefor more food for thought
and thoughtful food.
Enjoy your eats!
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