THE REAL LAWYER
THE REAL LAWYER Sophia Media Join corporate lawyer, law firm owner and former BigLaw partner Joyce Sophia Xu for candid conversations with real lawyers about life, working in law and everything in between. Tune in every other week on Monday, Wednesday and Friday to hear a real lawyer share their journey - what led them to law school, how their career has evolved after graduation, and, most importantly, how they keep it real and find joy and fulfillment along the way. Created and Produced by: Sophia Media Sponsored by: Joyce Xu Law LLC - www.joycexulaw.com Music By: Nana Simopoulos
Episodes
In the heartfelt conclusion to our three-part conversation, Caren Khoo, Vice President and Deputy General Counsel at Verizon, opens up about the foundational supports behind her success, including her family, her network, and her faith. Caren reflects on the importance of freedom, humility, and asking for help, sharing valuable lessons learned from a career filled with unexpected twists and personal growth.
We explore ...
In this episode, Verizon VP & Deputy General Counsel Caren Khoo shares her 17-year journey from patent litigator to corporate legal leader. She reveals how transitioning from BigLaw to in-house counsel transformed her career - from the surprising similarities in litigation work to the liberating shift away from billable hours. Caren discusses her evolution through multiple Verizon divisions, now leading a 40-perso...
In this episode, Caren Khoo, VP & Deputy General Counsel at Verizon, discusses her path from industrial engineering to corporate legal leadership. She shares insights about transitioning from IP litigation at firms like WilmerHale to her current in-house role overseeing AI governance and leading a 40-person legal team. Caren reflects on how diverse professional experiences, including early management roles, shaped...
Episode Summary - Part 3: A Day in the Life of a Law School Dean
In this final episode, Dean Josh Fershee pulls back the curtain on his daily life leading Creighton University School of Law. He shares his disciplined morning routine (a 14-year running habit), his open-door policy for students, and how he balances administrative duties with teaching environmental law. Josh discusses innovative initiatives like expa...
Episode Summary - Part 2: Building a Supportive Legal Education Environment
In this episode, the conversation continues with Josh Fershee, Dean of Creighton Law School, who reflects on his journey from West Virginia to Omaha. He shares his experiences balancing family life with a demanding academic career, including the challenges of moving during his children's school years. He discusses his leadership approach a...
Episode Summary - Part 1: From College Town to Law School
In this episode, Josh Fershee, Dean and Professor of Law at Creighton University, takes us on a journey through his unique path to law. Growing up in East Lansing, Michigan, with a father who worked in government law, Josh’s early exposure to the legal world was unconventional. He shares how his academic journey was filled with twists and turns, including attend...
In this final episode, Lucy Fato shares her leadership journey at Seaport Entertainment, navigating the complexities of real estate, hospitality, and live events. She reflects on how lessons from past challenges continue to shape her approach to decision-making and team leadership.
Lucy offers candid insights on servant leadership, the importance of mentorship, and why clarity is kindness. Her perspective on resilience...
In this episode, Lucy Fato opens up about her bold move from Big Law to the corporate world. She shares why she finally said yes to Marsh McLennan after turning down a previous offer and how trust in leadership played a key role.
From navigating crises at S&P Global to balancing legal, HR, and communications at AIG during the pandemic, Lucy’s story is one of resilience, problem-solving, and staying true to her valu...
In this episode, Lucy Fato, a renowned corporate lawyer, shares her inspiring journey from her first-generation Italian-American upbringing in Pittsburgh to becoming a leader in corporate law. Lucy reflects on her early career experiences, including working as a phlebotomist and in retail finance, and how witnessing racial injustice ignited her passion for law. She discusses her time at the University of Pittsburgh La...
In this episode of The Real Lawyer Podcast, host Joyce Sophia continues her conversation with Wayne Outten, Chair and Founding Partner of Outten and Golden, a labor and employment law firm. Wayne shares his journey of building a successful law firm focused on advocating for employees and reflects on the personal challenges he's faced along the way. From making difficult decisions about his career path to navigati...
In this episode of The Real Lawyer Podcast. Wayne shares the incredible journey of building one of the leading labor and employment law firms in the country, starting with just two lawyers and a big vision. He dives into the challenges of starting a firm, the risks involved in class action cases, and the principles that guided his success—including hiring talented, passionate, and kind people. Wayne also offers heartf...
In this episode of The Real Lawyer Podcast, Joyce Sophia chats with Wayne Outten, a pioneer in labor and employment law and founding partner of Outten and Golden. Wayne shares his inspiring journey from small-town Maryland to leading the legal field, his role in founding the National Employment Lawyers Association, and his work with Workplace Fairness. Don’t miss this insightful conversation about his early years, law...
In the final part of her interview, Daren Stanaway discusses the profound influence her mother had on her confidence, resilience, and success. She reflects on lessons in leadership and team-building, drawing on her experiences as a lawyer, mentor, and manager. Daren shares her passion for music, fitness, and creative pursuits, emphasizing the importance of maintaining a balance between personal interests and professio...
In this episode, Daren Stanaway shares how mentorship and drive shaped her early litigation career. She reflects on lessons in legal writing, strategic thinking at Bingham (now Morgan Lewis), and navigating long-term cases and high-pressure situations. Daren also discusses transitioning to in-house counsel during the pandemic, highlighting the importance of perseverance, collaboration, and genuine relationships in law...
In this episode, Daren Stanaway reflects on her path from growing up in Billings, Montana, to attending Harvard for both undergrad and law school. Initially drawn to journalism, Daren’s deliberate approach to her career led her to law, where she envisioned “making news” instead of just reporting it. She shares memories of her time at Harvard Law School, from the rigor of 1L year to the camaraderie she built with class...
Joyce Sophia Xu recaps the Ryne Miller interview and shares her key takeaways.
In the final episode, Ryne Miller discusses how he stays grounded amid the pressures of a legal career. He highlights the role of mentorship, staying connected to networks, and prioritizing rest. Ryne reflects on mentors who modeled a healthy work-life balance and shares his personal interests outside of law, such as family and sports. He concludes with advice for law students and young lawyers, emphasizing the import...
In this episode, Ryne Miller discusses the evolution of his career, highlighting his work in commodities, derivatives, and cryptocurrency regulation. He reflects on his time at the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC), contributing to Dodd-Frank regulations post-2008 crisis, and his transition to Sullivan & Cromwell working with high-profile clients. Ryne also shares his experience as in-house counsel at FT...
In this episode, Ryne Miller discusses his journey into law, shaped by his upbringing in Yukon, Oklahoma, and global experiences studying in England and volunteering in Thailand. These moments broadened his perspective and led him to law school at the University of Oklahoma. Ryne also shares his entrepreneurial ventures, passion for contracts law, and how law school prepared him for his legal career.
Joyce Sophia Xu shares her thoughts on her interview with Shruti Rana and invites you to join the Conversation.
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