Owen Lipstein has interviewed icons like Liz Gilbert and Cyndi Lauper. He’s run national magazines, launched Shakespeare festivals on the Hudson, and now he’s doing something just as ambitious—capturing the heart of Santa Fe one story at a time.
In this episode of The Real Santa Fe, Bunny reconnects with Owen, founder and publisher of Santa Fe Magazine, for a wide-ranging and soul-stirring conversation about what makes this city—and its people—so extraordinary. They talk about the art of listening, how stories create belonging, why Canyon Road is buzzing again thanks to Owen’s wife Maggie Fine, and what’s coming next: a Santa Fe Magazine live festival unlike anything the city’s seen before.
If you’ve ever felt a little magic in the air here, this episode will help you understand why—and remind you that sometimes, the most powerful thing we can do is really listen.
Santa Fe Magazine: https://santafemagazine.co/
Original Music by: Kene Terry
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Bunny (00:00):
Welcome everybody to the Real Santa Fe podcast.
I get to interview a guest whohas been on this show before,
when it was, I love New Mexico,but now I get to do it.
I hope as a friend, becauseOwen and I have now met each
other several times, and heactually interviewed me.
Owen, I'm excited to have you.
Owen (00:20):
It's great to actually interview with someone I
interviewed when I didn't knowsomeone before I actually
interviewed and now after thefact.
Hopefully we'll have evenadditional clarity and insight
now that we've gotten to knoweach other a little better.
Bunny (00:35):
and I'm just gonna be really clear first of all to our
listeners, Owen Lipstein is,one is the publisher editor, I
don't know, what's the Santa Femagazine?
Founder, editor.
What's the correct title?
Owen,
Owen (00:48):
founder, publisher, editor on the magazine.
Bunny (00:53):
I.
I'm just gonna be reallytransparent here.
when we do these interviews I'mrunning a business and doing
everything else I do.
I'm operating by the seat of mypants.
this time.
I really took a deep dive intowho Owen Lipstein is, I was
like, wow.
I'm intimidated.
what are the things you haven'tdone yet?
(01:14):
Who are the people you haven'tinterviewed?
When I found out that I wasinterviewed by and now
interviewing somebody who alsointerviewed people like Liz
Gilbert and City Lauper.
Annie Ovitz, what haven't youdone, Owen?
Owen (01:27):
Oh many things.
Bunny (01:29):
Not all the fun stuff yet.
Owen (01:31):
But not everyone.
Bunny (01:35):
I can do a long list of your credentials.
Owen (01:37):
Okay.
Bunny (01:38):
So I.
In addition to publishingeverything from Mother Earth
News to Psychology Today, toAmerican Health, to inside out
spy Magazine, if I get any ofthis wrong, let me know.
You also created Shakespeare onthe Hudson.
So here's what happened.
I'm talking to our greatfriend, Tanya Catan.
(01:58):
Who I love.
And she, I said, Owen came andinterviewed me the other day and
I'm gonna interview him nextweek.
And she said, bunny, he is A,B, F, D.
And I said I know.
And she said no.
You have no clue.
So all I can say I'm gonna takea look
Owen (02:15):
is a few things I fear but one of them is having an
assessment from her.
So I'm glad she said that andwhat is, what?
She said What is A BFB?
Speaker (02:27):
Is that I can't say it's okay
Owen (02:28):
it will just remain unknown.
Speaker (02:30):
a big deal.
Owen (02:31):
Yeah.
I always like to be reminded ofthings I've done because it's
easy to forget.
And I'm focused on the presentthat these things seem like mild
memories in the past.
Bunny (02:41):
So Owen Lipstein, who won a national magazine award,
maybe more than one is our guesttoday.
And the reason he's our guestis not just that he is the
publisher of Santa Fe Magazine,but because I get this
impression not just from knowingyou and hearing you, but from
reading the magazine that youreally find Santa Fe to be.
(03:06):
A fascinating and rich andinteresting place to live.
Owen (03:13):
I came here I guess nine years ago with my wife Maggie.
I actually like to describemyself as the man who
accompanied Maggie back to herhometown.
when I got here, I was happilyand uniquely unemployed, and I
wandered around meeting anynumber of people and coming back
with such radical enthusiasmalmost euphoric that I was
(03:36):
laughingly called blue Sky Owen.
And it was not a compliment.
It was like This guy isenthusiastic about every single
thing he sees.
Or defying convention andfamily reaction.
I started a magazine with JohnMiller to talk to the people who
live here.
And in the process I hoped Iwould be able to tell a story of
(03:58):
the city and in some sensenarrate it Try to make some
sense of it.
And so I've lived in manyplaces but I feel like I've.
Come home.
Even though I'm native to NewYork and Manhattan and the
Hudson Valley I feel like thisis the first time as the DiUS
would say, I've come to dryland.
(04:18):
After all those times away, Ifind the city endlessly
interesting endlessly surprisingand strangely important.
In relationship to what it, noteven, it's always been that
way, but especially now in thistime of arguably some darkness.
I think that the city can beboth a city of light.
(04:40):
It already is.
and a place to be protected insome sense.
I think at different times anddifferent places, there have
been cities, of course, we'reall thinking of Athens that end
up having intersections ofculture, art, politics law,
power thinking craft.
And I think Santa Fe has alwaysbeen that, but I think it will
(05:02):
be.
Perhaps more like that now.
Just given all the things thatare happening outside.
So I'm enthralled and delightedto live in the city.
Remember when we, I can dowhat?
Bunny (05:18):
I just remember when we talked the first time.
in my first interview which Ithink was in January of 2024 you
said that you would walk to thecoffee shop in the morning,
maybe every morning and sit downand it seemed without fail that
you.
Met somebody, talked tosomebody, you're so endlessly
(05:39):
curious and friendly, which Ilike to think of myself in the
same way, but you take it to anew level.
am I remembering correctly, isthat sort of where this passion
for the Santa Fe magazine camefrom?
Owen (05:52):
Yeah.
I just, I would get all thesenew best friends and, people
would always ask me who myfavorite interview was, and it
usually and inevitably is, oh,my last interview.
I just find the diversity inthe uniqueness, in the sort of
combined.
I just find the people veryinteresting And I feel that way
(06:15):
almost more than I did from themoment I arrived and had those
shall we say, very enthusiasticconversations with just about
everybody.
I would run into, there'ssomething about plate that is
quite
Speaker (06:29):
go
Owen (06:29):
No, there's something about this place that people
often have trouble describing.
I often ask at the end of theinterviews what's so special and
everybody has something to say,but they tend to say, I don't
know, at the end.
I don't know what it is.
I can't figure it out, but itdoesn't matter.
Bunny (06:53):
And this was Maggie's hometown.
Owen (06:55):
Yes.
Bunny (06:56):
Did you have a different notion of what it was like
before you arrived?
Were you, did you think youwere coming like to a smaller
Aspen or what?
Owen (07:04):
when we got married and Maggie said, I want to have our
baby on the lay line of SantaFe.
And we wanna move, I wanna movethere.
There wasn't a lot of choice.
It seemed like a prudent ideato say yes.
And of course I did.
So to some extent it was myusual dumb luck that the
hometown of my wife turned outto be the place I've always
(07:27):
wanted to go.
But I think I had all theposter card cartoon versions of
Santa Fe that had to do with, avariety of stones, cowboys
native events land, and, andgeneral spirituality, but it
seemed like a lot of fun.
I always knew it was a coolplace and I used to ski, so I
used to, be around in the areafrequently in my vulnerable
(07:51):
youth.
But to say I had any deeperunderstanding would not be true.
It is always good to come to aplace with an open book and
unwavering curiosity andwillingness to be surprised.
And I had all those things.
Bunny (08:08):
I think it's also pretty, I'm married to somebody who
grew up here too.
I think there's a little bitof, it's pretty cool to get to
experience a place like this.
Owen (08:19):
Yeah I think I had to, I may well be an asshole but it
would, I would've had to be areal big one to be thrown out
given the fact that I was Maggiefine's husband.
and the fact that we had ourkid here wasn't leg up.
So there's lots of ways not toget to know the city.
But I definitely had shall wesay, an arguable, immense.
(08:39):
Advantage.
And I'm proud to have had itand delighted to have had it,
but it's a voyage.
Bunny (08:48):
What I'd like to hear your description.
Owen (08:52):
The it at heart.
It uses the process of aninterview to get to know a
person I work with the premisethat and I should say this,
we're not interested in news.
We're not interested inranking, we're not trying to get
the best of, or the worst ofthe most annoying.
Criteria for whether someoneappears in the magazine is if
(09:15):
they are interesting whetherthey have curiosity, whether
they have, whether they're doingsomething new and that, that
ends up being, I.
What I do, I, as I said, it'snot hard for me to find
interesting people.
So there's a wide variety ofpeople we talk to.
We of course have some we talkto the mighty and the families.
(09:36):
We talk to people you've neverheard of.
We talk to artists, we talk tohealers, we talked to guitar
players, we talked tophotographers.
We talked to, builders.
We talked to entrepreneurs wetalked to drivers, we talked to
carpenters.
what's interesting and we don'tjudge, what they do informs who
(09:56):
they are as people.
Of course we're gonna talk tothe Governor, Michel.
But I was interested in whatmade her.
Almost the before, before shewas governor.
what were the things thatinfluenced her, because of
course we know what these peopledo now, but how did they get
there?
How did, z of dark winds becomethe actor he is.
(10:19):
What were the influences?
What was he before We've heardof him.
And then there of course, thepeople who we've never heard of
who actually have a story.
Sometimes you can help themwith their narrative.
Sometimes you don't.
Sometimes the things that theythink are important may not be
as interesting to other people.
But what's important is thatthey have a story and it's not
(10:41):
hard to find people like that.
people ask me if I ever run outof people to talk to, and I say
when that happens, I should befired.
if I find a poverty of peopleto talk to it is my fault and
not the fault of the city.
I expect to be fired.
Bunny (10:58):
I imagine that happening, but, so I went back and looked
at the interview that you andJohn Miller who is also.
Amazing.
That you did after a year andyou said here's the thing about
the stories.
The more you get to knowsomeone, the more you realize
how much in common you have withthem.
It's the namaste thing.
(11:19):
like saying, Hey, I recognizethat light in you and I, you've
done that really well.
For your readers as well.
The more I read the interviews,the more I think, wow, I have a
lot in common with thesepeople.
We're all just, we all have thesame light, we all have the
same curiosity.
I think Z and I could be bestfriends.
Owen (11:39):
Why don't you call 'em up and ask him?
Bunny (11:42):
I think I will.
The director Chris lives nextdoor to me.
So he's sure to show up at somepoint.
Owen (11:47):
Yes.
Look, we all live in this worldregardless of who we are.
We tend to live in a verticallife.
We talk to the people we workwith, we hang out with our
families, our, our directfriends.
But there's what I believe, Ibelieve what we're starting to
do is help connect thiscommunity.
Take diverse people who don'thave a normal way to talk to
(12:11):
each other or get to know eachother or see each other as they
are and put them together.
And when you do that, if you'rebeing honest in your recording
and honest in your questions,and especially honest in your
listening and listening is aprinciple.
Curiosity, listening are theprinciple tools that I think you
need here.
If you put all those piecestogether, you see an immense
(12:34):
commonality and something that'sinarguable.
All the people that I talk atany rate are following something
that's important to them, andthey have the trials and
tribulations and the history andthe stuff that made them, and
the stuff that they're becomingand stuff that they aspire to.
And whatever you do, as long asit is something that you care
(12:54):
about and something that hassome value outside yourself
there's immense commonality.
And of course, one of the, ifwe have equity in this magazine
and obviously this brazenpublisher thinks we do is that
people have come to trust us.
So the filter that weappropriately have sometimes
(13:15):
when we begin to tell our story,I think to some extent, people
let that go because they haveseen, observed, and felt, I
think that we have the authorityand the track record of being
good listeners and and arecurious and open.
To the otherness, the newnessof everybody.
(13:38):
I was very, I learned a lotwhen I talked to you.
I, of course, I knew your bio,and of course I know what you've
written and I've met youinformally, but I came way with
the interview quite shocked notin a good way.
And I, with respect to you,with respect to the magazine, I
frequently have that.
(13:58):
Oh my God.
I didn't know that.
And I always learn something.
I get a little bit smarterafter each interview.
Bunny (14:07):
I found the same thing.
Sometimes I would go into apodcast because I've now been
podcasting since 20, 21.
Different topics, but I foundthe same thing when I was
podcasting.
In fact, sometimes Johannawould schedule people and I'd be
like, oh what, how what thisis.
it felt a little bit of a, likea slog.
(14:29):
And the moment.
I took a second and startedlistening.
I thought what?
it does seem like one of themost important things we can do
is listen to one another andbuild a community around that.
That's, that'd solve a lot ofproblems, wouldn't it?
Owen (14:44):
What you ask for is the truth as they see it.
What you ask is as muchuncensored facts and experiences
and feelings in people's lives.
Some people, don't do that.
And if you listen, you can sayokay, yeah, that's your
biography.
Talk to me and I've hadexperiences where they won't or
(15:06):
don't, or I feel there's falsityor propaganda or some promotion
or some version of, this is mypress release.
This is what I want and I justdon't run the interviews.
So sometimes.
I'm all excited about meetingsomeone.
But I guess I do.
And in terms of the magazine,but if I think I'm not getting
(15:27):
Honesty we don't run it.
And because people pick up onthat, people pick up on
bullshit, whether I wish morepoliticians would understand
that.
I think it's arguablycontagious.
And so You try to stay awayfrom that.
I just wanted to say that notall interviews are created
equally and some just don'twork.
(15:47):
And just have to call it assuch,
Bunny (15:50):
wow.
So bullshit is contagious.
Owen (15:52):
You just, that's the truth.
That's the truth.
Yeah.
You don't wanna be around it itit it changes the whole
transaction you have.
if you encounter falsity itjust, it, instead of listening,
you're judging.
And when you start judging,you're not listening any rate.
It sounds all complicated.
It may be completelyridiculous, but that's my take
(16:14):
on it at the moment.
Bunny (16:16):
I don't think it's actually pretty simple, right?
Owen (16:19):
It's simple.
Bunny (16:20):
Yeah.
We should talk about one ofyour favorite things to talk
about because you wererelentless about it when you
interviewed me, which is thecommunity building piece of what
Maggie's and her group aredoing on Canyon Road.
Can you tell people about that?
Because we do this podcast sothat somebody who's never been
here is gonna think, wow, Ishould go there.
Because what they're doing is Ican't miss it, and I think
(16:43):
that's a thing you can't miss.
Owen (16:45):
No you can't be.
One full disclosure.
I'm in love with my wife and soone and my wife is Maggie Fine
of Santa Fe, New Mexico.
So to the extent I seem at allhyper positive beyond reason, it
isn't really.
But I have made the disclosure.
Maggie was titled magazine iscalled RO Editor, and she was
(17:07):
doing a piece on Canyon Road.
And we were at the El roll, andshe had the genuine insight
that, and feeling that theCanyon Road of her youth was a
little bit better.
Be a little, a lot less.
A lot more populated, a lotmore free than the Canyon Road,
at least she was reporting on atthe moment.
(17:28):
So she had the idea of startingsomething called Canyon Road
Walks, which is a Wednesdaynight, every other Wednesday in
the summer, or actually monthlyon the summer.
And sometimes frequent morefrequently than that.
A walk.
A walk that has become a kindof pilgrimage.
Stores are open.
(17:48):
Traffic is closed down.
There are places to eat, placesto see there's a play that's
going on next this July which isa cabaret, it's where people
not only are meeting uniquepeople from all over, but they
have actually something to sayto each other.
Not only because the street isnot just about one thing.
(18:11):
It's about a whole lot ofthings.
I feel like having liveinteraction in some sense it's
as if the people in the magazinewere meeting each other and
encountering each other, andyou're seeing friends from
former lives or past lives, notpast life, but somebody who knew
when, or somebody just met.
Or someone you wanna meet orsomeone you actually meet by
(18:33):
accident or by meditation.
You meet them on the street andyou have so many activities.
The whole set of all thosethings, if you go there is
something I might call life.
Life, there's intense life thathappens on those streets and
those events.
If a group of guys if a man hadstarted and assembled a group
(18:54):
of guys, they probably would'venot even managed to do an event
last year.
But Maggie and basically abunch of young moms now, she has
other staff.
Just decided they were gonna doit instead of fighting with
each other or fighting a role orhierarchy or whatever dumb shit
men are quite capable of doing.
These women just went and didit and before our eyes it became
(19:19):
an event.
There you go.
it was a good idea.
Like most of good ideas youwant to see if it test.
We were stunned and shocked andpleased.
So many people came and I thinkit's the same thing that's.
Motivating the magazine, whichis people want to meet, they
want to interact, they want togo into places they have not
(19:39):
been and learn they want to dosomething.
That's vital.
And I think we have all thosethings plus a lot of fun.
If you're not having fun whenyou have the events, if you're
not having fun, when you, do amagazine like that.
But Maggie's next event is inJuly 4th.
I think.
That's, or fifth.
I think that's the right date.
And everyone should go.
Bunny (20:01):
so it's not on a Wednesday night
Owen (20:02):
Yeah, it's on a Wednesday night.
Bunny (20:03):
that's the second.
Owen (20:04):
Yeah.
Bunny (20:05):
and looked at the calendar
Owen (20:06):
Okay.
I'm gonna get killed if thatListen,
Bunny (20:08):
we'll correct it.
We'll in the notes.
And we'll let everybody know.
And Johanna and I now are,doing a video like maybe once a
week.
we just start talking aboutstuff that's going on.
And so we talked about it lasttime and then we had this crazy
rain.
Owen (20:21):
Yeah.
that happened in the firstwalk.
how often is it that there'stwo hours in the month of June
where it rains nonstop?
So all I can say is shit doeshappen.
all these extraordinary plansthis group had made were
literally rained on.
in spite of that, a lot ofpeople showed up.
(20:42):
the diversity incitement of theplace was manifest.
But you'd have to work to findtwo hours in June where it
rains.
Bunny (20:49):
i, it's really I suspect that people who are listening
will think I Canyon Road, that'sthose, stuffy art hangout.
But this is a family of, thisis a boisterous, fun, family
friendly event.
In fact, when we had the youngwoman who runs Santa Fe fam and
I apologize for not knowing hername off the top of my head, but
when we talked to her I'msorry, Megan.
Owen (21:11):
Yeah, that's right.
Bunny (21:13):
She said, I'm so excited about the Canyon Road walks this
year.
I can't stand it.
She's got babies.
Owen (21:18):
Yeah.
It's an assault on assault isthe wrong word, but a challenge
to the banal banalities, thecliches, the sagging belief
that, that canyon road is allthose things.
And when you challenge them andactually show those cliches are
worth nothing when you actuallyare out there.
(21:39):
Forces people, gives people theopportunity to go there, and
when they do, they can throw alltheir past thoughts false
beliefs, cliches, and old ideasof what Canyon Road is at least
a negative part away.
And that's the inarguable.
Accomplishment of what they'redoing.
And this summer's gonna beawesome filming.
(22:02):
No, I can't, no acts of nature.
Bunny (22:06):
I can't wait to go to the one in July.
Santa Fe Magazine will come outin August, but what's next for
Owen?
Owen (22:14):
We'll be planning next summer, and I think it will be
in June, something called theSanta Fe Magazine Festival.
And we will be five years old.
Five years is very young for anadult.
And it's pretty old for a dog.
That's a goddamn miracle for amagazine.
Especially those that are, inindustry that is known mainly
(22:38):
for the extinction events.
And so I think it's taken fiveyears to feel confident enough
about our brand and to get ourvoice together so that we can
have a, we feel we're.
Able to have a festival of andthe festival would be an
interaction of the people thatwe've interviewed across all
(23:00):
subjects.
to have music and visuals andmovies and an opportunity not
for our readers and ourinterviewees.
To not only meet each other, tomeet each other's, the other
people that are in the magazinein effect is the magazine live.
And some of the sessions areintended to be substantial.
(23:21):
Some of them are intended to befunny.
the heart of the magazine, thevoice of the magazine will be in
evidence.
And it will be live.
And we're just putting ittogether.
We're inspired by some of thesuccess of some of the festivals
that have come here.
And notably the literaryfestival we're all also inspired
by what the New Yorker Festivaldoes and what the Atlantic
(23:43):
Monthly is.
But at heart we want it to befun.
We want it to be vital.
We want it to be nothing thathas quite happened before, at
least from a magazine franchise.
And that's what I'm putting myenergy into these days.
'cause I wanna make it as goodas we can.
Speaker (24:01):
Wow.
Owen (24:02):
Three day event.
And I'm really stoked.
Bunny (24:06):
I think that's a great place, Forza and I to finally
figure out that we could befriends.
Owen (24:10):
Yeah.
This is really, I want this tobe a setting for you and Zan to
meet and in many ways that's whyI'm doing this Bunny for you.
Bunny (24:18):
happy, Owen.
This is so much fun.
Owen (24:21):
waited this time to tell you all It's really about Bunny
getting out there all.
Bunny (24:27):
E.
E, everything else issuperfluous.
And I know that Zan, when hereads my interview, he's gonna
say I think we could be greatfriends.
Owen (24:35):
have confidence in that.
Bunny (24:36):
I want folks to know that Hopefully if my interview makes
the cut, I might be In theAugust edition.
Owen (24:42):
You're in the current issue, so we'll just, okay.
You'll have the current andyou'll be able to show 'em And
this could be the very, thebeginning of a long relationship
and a big career for him
Bunny (24:54):
knowing in the fact that not only do you.
Publish magazines and entertainthe masses.
You also take amazing photos.
I hope 'cause you took a lot ofme that day.
So
Owen (25:15):
I, I just one note about this that I for, I've obviously,
I've been in the magazinesbusiness for a while and I've
been to a number of photoshoots.
And I, when I got here, I, andI haven't been the photographer.
So being the auto didact that II am, and being like so many
men, I justify so much of what Ido in order to justify buying
(25:37):
equipment.
So the magazine was just apretense.
I wanted to buy a really goodcamera.
But I, and so I have a.
what I learned is that whenafter people talk to you, really
talk to you they're not gussiedup, they're vulnerable, they're
open, and most importantly,they trust you.
So I, when I learned from thesefancy photographers, a, they
(26:00):
had a lot of.
They had the best equipment.
We've already gone over thatpoint.
But two, they take a lot ofpictures.
They take so many pictures thatthe person's being photographed
is about ready to would youplease leave?
And so I take a lot ofphotographs.
And you don't know what youhave until you see it, until you
put it on.
But thank you for saying thatit's very meaningful.
(26:21):
When I announced that I wasgonna be taking a lot of the
photographs, at least some ofthe photographs I, I got the Oh
yeah, you're gonna do that too.
And I said, yes, I'm gonna dothat too.
But having said that we wannamake the magazine.
A home for some of the bestphotographers around, and we do
that.
Increasingly and respectfullywe're assigning some of our
(26:43):
star, the star photographersthat we know of and some that we
don't to take the pictures andI think it's opening up the
magazine and I'm learning a lot.
And I think we're seeingpeople's faces and portraits
through the lens if you will, ofa variety of really talented
photographers that we're luckyto have.
Bunny (27:06):
And there's so much talent here, isn't there?
Owen (27:08):
Yeah.
Shocking.
Bunny (27:09):
It's always fun to talk to you, Owen.
I could talk, we could do thisfor a long time, but we promise
our listeners we'll do this forabout 30 minutes.
Owen (27:16):
it was great to.
Bunny (27:18):
Let's do it before the festival.
Owen (27:20):
take very seriously what I said about you and Zan.
Bunny (27:23):
I'm so glad you're gonna make this.
Owen (27:25):
No
Bunny (27:25):
bullshit.
Owen (27:26):
And and please get all your listeners as if they're not
to come to the Canyon Road,walk in July.
And
Bunny (27:35):
to subscribe to the magazine.
Owen (27:36):
That's understood.
Please subscribe.
Yes.
Vote with your checking bookand let us know because we we
live in part by by what ourreaders say and the
contributions they make.
Thank you and have a great day.
Bunny (27:51):
Thank you, Owen.
Welcome everybody to the Real Santa Fe podcast.
I get to interview a guest whohas been on this show before,
when it was, I love New Mexico,but now I get to do it.
I hope as a friend, becauseOwen and I have now met each
other several times, and heactually interviewed me.
Owen, I'm excited to have you.
Owen (00:20):
It's great to actually interview with someone I
interviewed when I didn't knowsomeone before I actually
interviewed and now after thefact.
Hopefully we'll have evenadditional clarity and insight
now that we've gotten to knoweach other a little better.
Bunny (00:35):
and I'm just gonna be really clear first of all to our
listeners, Owen Lipstein is,one is the publisher editor, I
don't know, what's the Santa Femagazine?
Founder, editor.
What's the correct title?
Owen,
Owen (00:48):
founder, publisher, editor on the magazine.
Bunny (00:53):
I.
I'm just gonna be reallytransparent here.
when we do these interviews I'mrunning a business and doing
everything else I do.
I'm operating by the seat of mypants.
this time.
I really took a deep dive intowho Owen Lipstein is, I was
like, wow.
I'm intimidated.
what are the things you haven'tdone yet?
(01:14):
Who are the people you haven'tinterviewed?
When I found out that I wasinterviewed by and now
interviewing somebody who alsointerviewed people like Liz
Gilbert and City Lauper.
Annie Ovitz, what haven't youdone, Owen?
Owen (01:27):
Oh many things.
Bunny (01:29):
Not all the fun stuff yet.
Owen (01:31):
But not everyone.
Bunny (01:35):
I can do a long list of your credentials.
Owen (01:37):
Okay.
Bunny (01:38):
So I.
In addition to publishingeverything from Mother Earth
News to Psychology Today, toAmerican Health, to inside out
spy Magazine, if I get any ofthis wrong, let me know.
You also created Shakespeare onthe Hudson.
So here's what happened.
I'm talking to our greatfriend, Tanya Catan.
(01:58):
Who I love.
And she, I said, Owen came andinterviewed me the other day and
I'm gonna interview him nextweek.
And she said, bunny, he is A,B, F, D.
And I said I know.
And she said no.
You have no clue.
So all I can say I'm gonna takea look
Owen (02:15):
is a few things I fear but one of them is having an
assessment from her.
So I'm glad she said that andwhat is, what?
She said What is A BFB?
Speaker (02:27):
Is that I can't say it's okay
Owen (02:28):
it will just remain unknown.
Speaker (02:30):
a big deal.
Owen (02:31):
Yeah.
I always like to be reminded ofthings I've done because it's
easy to forget.
And I'm focused on the presentthat these things seem like mild
memories in the past.
Bunny (02:41):
So Owen Lipstein, who won a national magazine award,
maybe more than one is our guesttoday.
And the reason he's our guestis not just that he is the
publisher of Santa Fe Magazine,but because I get this
impression not just from knowingyou and hearing you, but from
reading the magazine that youreally find Santa Fe to be.
(03:06):
A fascinating and rich andinteresting place to live.
Owen (03:13):
I came here I guess nine years ago with my wife Maggie.
I actually like to describemyself as the man who
accompanied Maggie back to herhometown.
when I got here, I was happilyand uniquely unemployed, and I
wandered around meeting anynumber of people and coming back
with such radical enthusiasmalmost euphoric that I was
(03:36):
laughingly called blue Sky Owen.
And it was not a compliment.
It was like This guy isenthusiastic about every single
thing he sees.
Or defying convention andfamily reaction.
I started a magazine with JohnMiller to talk to the people who
live here.
And in the process I hoped Iwould be able to tell a story of
(03:58):
the city and in some sensenarrate it Try to make some
sense of it.
And so I've lived in manyplaces but I feel like I've.
Come home.
Even though I'm native to NewYork and Manhattan and the
Hudson Valley I feel like thisis the first time as the DiUS
would say, I've come to dryland.
(04:18):
After all those times away, Ifind the city endlessly
interesting endlessly surprisingand strangely important.
In relationship to what it, noteven, it's always been that
way, but especially now in thistime of arguably some darkness.
I think that the city can beboth a city of light.
(04:40):
It already is.
and a place to be protected insome sense.
I think at different times anddifferent places, there have
been cities, of course, we'reall thinking of Athens that end
up having intersections ofculture, art, politics law,
power thinking craft.
And I think Santa Fe has alwaysbeen that, but I think it will
(05:02):
be.
Perhaps more like that now.
Just given all the things thatare happening outside.
So I'm enthralled and delightedto live in the city.
Remember when we, I can dowhat?
Bunny (05:18):
I just remember when we talked the first time.
in my first interview which Ithink was in January of 2024 you
said that you would walk to thecoffee shop in the morning,
maybe every morning and sit downand it seemed without fail that
you.
Met somebody, talked tosomebody, you're so endlessly
(05:39):
curious and friendly, which Ilike to think of myself in the
same way, but you take it to anew level.
am I remembering correctly, isthat sort of where this passion
for the Santa Fe magazine camefrom?
Owen (05:52):
Yeah.
I just, I would get all thesenew best friends and, people
would always ask me who myfavorite interview was, and it
usually and inevitably is, oh,my last interview.
I just find the diversity inthe uniqueness, in the sort of
combined.
I just find the people veryinteresting And I feel that way
(06:15):
almost more than I did from themoment I arrived and had those
shall we say, very enthusiasticconversations with just about
everybody.
I would run into, there'ssomething about plate that is
quite
Speaker (06:29):
go
Owen (06:29):
No, there's something about this place that people
often have trouble describing.
I often ask at the end of theinterviews what's so special and
everybody has something to say,but they tend to say, I don't
know, at the end.
I don't know what it is.
I can't figure it out, but itdoesn't matter.
Bunny (06:53):
And this was Maggie's hometown.
Owen (06:55):
Yes.
Bunny (06:56):
Did you have a different notion of what it was like
before you arrived?
Were you, did you think youwere coming like to a smaller
Aspen or what?
Owen (07:04):
when we got married and Maggie said, I want to have our
baby on the lay line of SantaFe.
And we wanna move, I wanna movethere.
There wasn't a lot of choice.
It seemed like a prudent ideato say yes.
And of course I did.
So to some extent it was myusual dumb luck that the
hometown of my wife turned outto be the place I've always
(07:27):
wanted to go.
But I think I had all theposter card cartoon versions of
Santa Fe that had to do with, avariety of stones, cowboys
native events land, and, andgeneral spirituality, but it
seemed like a lot of fun.
I always knew it was a coolplace and I used to ski, so I
used to, be around in the areafrequently in my vulnerable
(07:51):
youth.
But to say I had any deeperunderstanding would not be true.
It is always good to come to aplace with an open book and
unwavering curiosity andwillingness to be surprised.
And I had all those things.
Bunny (08:08):
I think it's also pretty, I'm married to somebody who
grew up here too.
I think there's a little bitof, it's pretty cool to get to
experience a place like this.
Owen (08:19):
Yeah I think I had to, I may well be an asshole but it
would, I would've had to be areal big one to be thrown out
given the fact that I was Maggiefine's husband.
and the fact that we had ourkid here wasn't leg up.
So there's lots of ways not toget to know the city.
But I definitely had shall wesay, an arguable, immense.
(08:39):
Advantage.
And I'm proud to have had itand delighted to have had it,
but it's a voyage.
Bunny (08:48):
What I'd like to hear your description.
Owen (08:52):
The it at heart.
It uses the process of aninterview to get to know a
person I work with the premisethat and I should say this,
we're not interested in news.
We're not interested inranking, we're not trying to get
the best of, or the worst ofthe most annoying.
Criteria for whether someoneappears in the magazine is if
(09:15):
they are interesting whetherthey have curiosity, whether
they have, whether they're doingsomething new and that, that
ends up being, I.
What I do, I, as I said, it'snot hard for me to find
interesting people.
So there's a wide variety ofpeople we talk to.
We of course have some we talkto the mighty and the families.
(09:36):
We talk to people you've neverheard of.
We talk to artists, we talk tohealers, we talked to guitar
players, we talked tophotographers.
We talked to, builders.
We talked to entrepreneurs wetalked to drivers, we talked to
carpenters.
what's interesting and we don'tjudge, what they do informs who
(09:56):
they are as people.
Of course we're gonna talk tothe Governor, Michel.
But I was interested in whatmade her.
Almost the before, before shewas governor.
what were the things thatinfluenced her, because of
course we know what these peopledo now, but how did they get
there?
How did, z of dark winds becomethe actor he is.
(10:19):
What were the influences?
What was he before We've heardof him.
And then there of course, thepeople who we've never heard of
who actually have a story.
Sometimes you can help themwith their narrative.
Sometimes you don't.
Sometimes the things that theythink are important may not be
as interesting to other people.
But what's important is thatthey have a story and it's not
(10:41):
hard to find people like that.
people ask me if I ever run outof people to talk to, and I say
when that happens, I should befired.
if I find a poverty of peopleto talk to it is my fault and
not the fault of the city.
I expect to be fired.
Bunny (10:58):
I imagine that happening, but, so I went back and looked
at the interview that you andJohn Miller who is also.
Amazing.
That you did after a year andyou said here's the thing about
the stories.
The more you get to knowsomeone, the more you realize
how much in common you have withthem.
It's the namaste thing.
(11:19):
like saying, Hey, I recognizethat light in you and I, you've
done that really well.
For your readers as well.
The more I read the interviews,the more I think, wow, I have a
lot in common with thesepeople.
We're all just, we all have thesame light, we all have the
same curiosity.
I think Z and I could be bestfriends.
Owen (11:39):
Why don't you call 'em up and ask him?
Bunny (11:42):
I think I will.
The director Chris lives nextdoor to me.
So he's sure to show up at somepoint.
Owen (11:47):
Yes.
Look, we all live in this worldregardless of who we are.
We tend to live in a verticallife.
We talk to the people we workwith, we hang out with our
families, our, our directfriends.
But there's what I believe, Ibelieve what we're starting to
do is help connect thiscommunity.
Take diverse people who don'thave a normal way to talk to
(12:11):
each other or get to know eachother or see each other as they
are and put them together.
And when you do that, if you'rebeing honest in your recording
and honest in your questions,and especially honest in your
listening and listening is aprinciple.
Curiosity, listening are theprinciple tools that I think you
need here.
If you put all those piecestogether, you see an immense
(12:34):
commonality and something that'sinarguable.
All the people that I talk atany rate are following something
that's important to them, andthey have the trials and
tribulations and the history andthe stuff that made them, and
the stuff that they're becomingand stuff that they aspire to.
And whatever you do, as long asit is something that you care
(12:54):
about and something that hassome value outside yourself
there's immense commonality.
And of course, one of the, ifwe have equity in this magazine
and obviously this brazenpublisher thinks we do is that
people have come to trust us.
So the filter that weappropriately have sometimes
(13:15):
when we begin to tell our story,I think to some extent, people
let that go because they haveseen, observed, and felt, I
think that we have the authorityand the track record of being
good listeners and and arecurious and open.
To the otherness, the newnessof everybody.
(13:38):
I was very, I learned a lotwhen I talked to you.
I, of course, I knew your bio,and of course I know what you've
written and I've met youinformally, but I came way with
the interview quite shocked notin a good way.
And I, with respect to you,with respect to the magazine, I
frequently have that.
(13:58):
Oh my God.
I didn't know that.
And I always learn something.
I get a little bit smarterafter each interview.
Bunny (14:07):
I found the same thing.
Sometimes I would go into apodcast because I've now been
podcasting since 20, 21.
Different topics, but I foundthe same thing when I was
podcasting.
In fact, sometimes Johannawould schedule people and I'd be
like, oh what, how what thisis.
it felt a little bit of a, likea slog.
(14:29):
And the moment.
I took a second and startedlistening.
I thought what?
it does seem like one of themost important things we can do
is listen to one another andbuild a community around that.
That's, that'd solve a lot ofproblems, wouldn't it?
Owen (14:44):
What you ask for is the truth as they see it.
What you ask is as muchuncensored facts and experiences
and feelings in people's lives.
Some people, don't do that.
And if you listen, you can sayokay, yeah, that's your
biography.
Talk to me and I've hadexperiences where they won't or
(15:06):
don't, or I feel there's falsityor propaganda or some promotion
or some version of, this is mypress release.
This is what I want and I justdon't run the interviews.
So sometimes.
I'm all excited about meetingsomeone.
But I guess I do.
And in terms of the magazine,but if I think I'm not getting
(15:27):
Honesty we don't run it.
And because people pick up onthat, people pick up on
bullshit, whether I wish morepoliticians would understand
that.
I think it's arguablycontagious.
And so You try to stay awayfrom that.
I just wanted to say that notall interviews are created
equally and some just don'twork.
(15:47):
And just have to call it assuch,
Bunny (15:50):
wow.
So bullshit is contagious.
Owen (15:52):
You just, that's the truth.
That's the truth.
Yeah.
You don't wanna be around it itit it changes the whole
transaction you have.
if you encounter falsity itjust, it, instead of listening,
you're judging.
And when you start judging,you're not listening any rate.
It sounds all complicated.
It may be completelyridiculous, but that's my take
(16:14):
on it at the moment.
Bunny (16:16):
I don't think it's actually pretty simple, right?
Owen (16:19):
It's simple.
Bunny (16:20):
Yeah.
We should talk about one ofyour favorite things to talk
about because you wererelentless about it when you
interviewed me, which is thecommunity building piece of what
Maggie's and her group aredoing on Canyon Road.
Can you tell people about that?
Because we do this podcast sothat somebody who's never been
here is gonna think, wow, Ishould go there.
Because what they're doing is Ican't miss it, and I think
(16:43):
that's a thing you can't miss.
Owen (16:45):
No you can't be.
One full disclosure.
I'm in love with my wife and soone and my wife is Maggie Fine
of Santa Fe, New Mexico.
So to the extent I seem at allhyper positive beyond reason, it
isn't really.
But I have made the disclosure.
Maggie was titled magazine iscalled RO Editor, and she was
(17:07):
doing a piece on Canyon Road.
And we were at the El roll, andshe had the genuine insight
that, and feeling that theCanyon Road of her youth was a
little bit better.
Be a little, a lot less.
A lot more populated, a lotmore free than the Canyon Road,
at least she was reporting on atthe moment.
(17:28):
So she had the idea of startingsomething called Canyon Road
Walks, which is a Wednesdaynight, every other Wednesday in
the summer, or actually monthlyon the summer.
And sometimes frequent morefrequently than that.
A walk.
A walk that has become a kindof pilgrimage.
Stores are open.
(17:48):
Traffic is closed down.
There are places to eat, placesto see there's a play that's
going on next this July which isa cabaret, it's where people
not only are meeting uniquepeople from all over, but they
have actually something to sayto each other.
Not only because the street isnot just about one thing.
(18:11):
It's about a whole lot ofthings.
I feel like having liveinteraction in some sense it's
as if the people in the magazinewere meeting each other and
encountering each other, andyou're seeing friends from
former lives or past lives, notpast life, but somebody who knew
when, or somebody just met.
Or someone you wanna meet orsomeone you actually meet by
(18:33):
accident or by meditation.
You meet them on the street andyou have so many activities.
The whole set of all thosethings, if you go there is
something I might call life.
Life, there's intense life thathappens on those streets and
those events.
If a group of guys if a man hadstarted and assembled a group
(18:54):
of guys, they probably would'venot even managed to do an event
last year.
But Maggie and basically abunch of young moms now, she has
other staff.
Just decided they were gonna doit instead of fighting with
each other or fighting a role orhierarchy or whatever dumb shit
men are quite capable of doing.
These women just went and didit and before our eyes it became
(19:19):
an event.
There you go.
it was a good idea.
Like most of good ideas youwant to see if it test.
We were stunned and shocked andpleased.
So many people came and I thinkit's the same thing that's.
Motivating the magazine, whichis people want to meet, they
want to interact, they want togo into places they have not
(19:39):
been and learn they want to dosomething.
That's vital.
And I think we have all thosethings plus a lot of fun.
If you're not having fun whenyou have the events, if you're
not having fun, when you, do amagazine like that.
But Maggie's next event is inJuly 4th.
I think.
That's, or fifth.
I think that's the right date.
And everyone should go.
Bunny (20:01):
so it's not on a Wednesday night
Owen (20:02):
Yeah, it's on a Wednesday night.
Bunny (20:03):
that's the second.
Owen (20:04):
Yeah.
Bunny (20:05):
and looked at the calendar
Owen (20:06):
Okay.
I'm gonna get killed if thatListen,
Bunny (20:08):
we'll correct it.
We'll in the notes.
And we'll let everybody know.
And Johanna and I now are,doing a video like maybe once a
week.
we just start talking aboutstuff that's going on.
And so we talked about it lasttime and then we had this crazy
rain.
Owen (20:21):
Yeah.
that happened in the firstwalk.
how often is it that there'stwo hours in the month of June
where it rains nonstop?
So all I can say is shit doeshappen.
all these extraordinary plansthis group had made were
literally rained on.
in spite of that, a lot ofpeople showed up.
(20:42):
the diversity incitement of theplace was manifest.
But you'd have to work to findtwo hours in June where it
rains.
Bunny (20:49):
i, it's really I suspect that people who are listening
will think I Canyon Road, that'sthose, stuffy art hangout.
But this is a family of, thisis a boisterous, fun, family
friendly event.
In fact, when we had the youngwoman who runs Santa Fe fam and
I apologize for not knowing hername off the top of my head, but
when we talked to her I'msorry, Megan.
Owen (21:11):
Yeah, that's right.
Bunny (21:13):
She said, I'm so excited about the Canyon Road walks this
year.
I can't stand it.
She's got babies.
Owen (21:18):
Yeah.
It's an assault on assault isthe wrong word, but a challenge
to the banal banalities, thecliches, the sagging belief
that, that canyon road is allthose things.
And when you challenge them andactually show those cliches are
worth nothing when you actuallyare out there.
(21:39):
Forces people, gives people theopportunity to go there, and
when they do, they can throw alltheir past thoughts false
beliefs, cliches, and old ideasof what Canyon Road is at least
a negative part away.
And that's the inarguable.
Accomplishment of what they'redoing.
And this summer's gonna beawesome filming.
(22:02):
No, I can't, no acts of nature.
Bunny (22:06):
I can't wait to go to the one in July.
Santa Fe Magazine will come outin August, but what's next for
Owen?
Owen (22:14):
We'll be planning next summer, and I think it will be
in June, something called theSanta Fe Magazine Festival.
And we will be five years old.
Five years is very young for anadult.
And it's pretty old for a dog.
That's a goddamn miracle for amagazine.
Especially those that are, inindustry that is known mainly
(22:38):
for the extinction events.
And so I think it's taken fiveyears to feel confident enough
about our brand and to get ourvoice together so that we can
have a, we feel we're.
Able to have a festival of andthe festival would be an
interaction of the people thatwe've interviewed across all
(23:00):
subjects.
to have music and visuals andmovies and an opportunity not
for our readers and ourinterviewees.
To not only meet each other, tomeet each other's, the other
people that are in the magazinein effect is the magazine live.
And some of the sessions areintended to be substantial.
(23:21):
Some of them are intended to befunny.
the heart of the magazine, thevoice of the magazine will be in
evidence.
And it will be live.
And we're just putting ittogether.
We're inspired by some of thesuccess of some of the festivals
that have come here.
And notably the literaryfestival we're all also inspired
by what the New Yorker Festivaldoes and what the Atlantic
(23:43):
Monthly is.
But at heart we want it to befun.
We want it to be vital.
We want it to be nothing thathas quite happened before, at
least from a magazine franchise.
And that's what I'm putting myenergy into these days.
'cause I wanna make it as goodas we can.
Speaker (24:01):
Wow.
Owen (24:02):
Three day event.
And I'm really stoked.
Bunny (24:06):
I think that's a great place, Forza and I to finally
figure out that we could befriends.
Owen (24:10):
Yeah.
This is really, I want this tobe a setting for you and Zan to
meet and in many ways that's whyI'm doing this Bunny for you.
Bunny (24:18):
happy, Owen.
This is so much fun.
Owen (24:21):
waited this time to tell you all It's really about Bunny
getting out there all.
Bunny (24:27):
E.
E, everything else issuperfluous.
And I know that Zan, when hereads my interview, he's gonna
say I think we could be greatfriends.
Owen (24:35):
have confidence in that.
Bunny (24:36):
I want folks to know that Hopefully if my interview makes
the cut, I might be In theAugust edition.
Owen (24:42):
You're in the current issue, so we'll just, okay.
You'll have the current andyou'll be able to show 'em And
this could be the very, thebeginning of a long relationship
and a big career for him
Bunny (24:54):
knowing in the fact that not only do you.
Publish magazines and entertainthe masses.
You also take amazing photos.
I hope 'cause you took a lot ofme that day.
So
Owen (25:15):
I, I just one note about this that I for, I've obviously,
I've been in the magazinesbusiness for a while and I've
been to a number of photoshoots.
And I, when I got here, I, andI haven't been the photographer.
So being the auto didact that II am, and being like so many
men, I justify so much of what Ido in order to justify buying
(25:37):
equipment.
So the magazine was just apretense.
I wanted to buy a really goodcamera.
But I, and so I have a.
what I learned is that whenafter people talk to you, really
talk to you they're not gussiedup, they're vulnerable, they're
open, and most importantly,they trust you.
So I, when I learned from thesefancy photographers, a, they
(26:00):
had a lot of.
They had the best equipment.
We've already gone over thatpoint.
But two, they take a lot ofpictures.
They take so many pictures thatthe person's being photographed
is about ready to would youplease leave?
And so I take a lot ofphotographs.
And you don't know what youhave until you see it, until you
put it on.
But thank you for saying thatit's very meaningful.
(26:21):
When I announced that I wasgonna be taking a lot of the
photographs, at least some ofthe photographs I, I got the Oh
yeah, you're gonna do that too.
And I said, yes, I'm gonna dothat too.
But having said that we wannamake the magazine.
A home for some of the bestphotographers around, and we do
that.
Increasingly and respectfullywe're assigning some of our
(26:43):
star, the star photographersthat we know of and some that we
don't to take the pictures andI think it's opening up the
magazine and I'm learning a lot.
And I think we're seeingpeople's faces and portraits
through the lens if you will, ofa variety of really talented
photographers that we're luckyto have.
Bunny (27:06):
And there's so much talent here, isn't there?
Owen (27:08):
Yeah.
Shocking.
Bunny (27:09):
It's always fun to talk to you, Owen.
I could talk, we could do thisfor a long time, but we promise
our listeners we'll do this forabout 30 minutes.
Owen (27:16):
it was great to.
Bunny (27:18):
Let's do it before the festival.
Owen (27:20):
take very seriously what I said about you and Zan.
Bunny (27:23):
I'm so glad you're gonna make this.
Owen (27:25):
No
Bunny (27:25):
bullshit.
Owen (27:26):
And and please get all your listeners as if they're not
to come to the Canyon Road,walk in July.
And
Bunny (27:35):
to subscribe to the magazine.
Owen (27:36):
That's understood.
Please subscribe.
Yes.
Vote with your checking bookand let us know because we we
live in part by by what ourreaders say and the
contributions they make.
Thank you and have a great day.
Bunny (27:51):
Thank you, Owen.
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