Beats, Therapy, and Hip Hop: A Conversation with Philip Drummond

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Okay, there we go.
You know, I think you know howI do the show already, man, so
I'm going to just do a littlebit of an intro Boom Going to

(00:25):
well, recap intro, and then I'llgo into what we're going to do
today, which today I'm just.
Did you want to just redo yourepisode?
Or do you want to do a like aspecial beat for stations when
we're talking to you about?
You know your music, today'sfuture sound, you know all of
that, all of that type of stuff.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
Man, is it possible to do both?

Speaker 1 (00:50):
We can do both.
Yes, so I was hoping you saythat yes, okay.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
Yeah, I'm down for both.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
Okay.
So I'm going to just I'm goingto go back and forth with how I
do both.
I'm going to do the regularepisode but then be for stations
, to where we're talking aboutthe be for stations part of, be
talking about the fun reasonyou're doing for today's future
sound, and then, you know, justtalking about that program,

(01:18):
everybody involved with it, youknow how it's reaching outreach,
you know all that type of stuff.
So, yeah, Don't yeah, okay, allright, here we go.
All right, this is kind ofweird with my wife.
She's never heard me do anepisode.

Speaker 2 (01:35):
Hey, well, she should be proud You're doing one of
the best premier.
You know beat casts in theworld.
Like everyone I know who's inthe beat scene loves Rex show
podcast and really respects it,so she should know Cheers.
Beat show podcast Subscribe oniTunes, Spotify, SoundCloud and
all that good stuff.
Beat show podcast is a beatshow, but it's the rec show

(01:57):
podcast.
You better get that right Recshow podcast coming at you hot
in 2024.
All your favorite producers,conversations and things that
you need to know about beatmaking.

Speaker 1 (02:07):
Blah, blah Yo.
So yo check, check, one, twopiece of love.
Everybody Go to my here for therex show podcast man, we got a
special edition man specialepisode.
But before we get into this newepisode we want to go back in
history just a little bit.
November we had onesies,twosies come out.

(02:27):
We had, you know, dj Basta fromCalifornia.
He was an episode man Basta.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
Basta, is Oakland, jim.
Sorry to interrupt, that'samazing.
Yeah, you can.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:41):
And then we had cryptic one, the legendary
cryptic one, who's been doingthis for three decades, man.
So yo, man, like we had someamazing guests just in November
and not in due four weeks, youknow, four episodes per month
just because of the holidays andstuff like that, guys,
incredible.

Speaker 2 (03:00):
And that's today's future sound and global beat
side for family.
That's good people.
He just volunteered with us atthe Brooklyn Justice Initiative,
so shout out cryptic one doingamazing stuff.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
Yep, I just saw that too, absolutely.
So internet, go ahead and tapinto those episodes.
They are available now onanywhere you get your podcast.
But then also go head over tothe Rex show podcast YouTube
channel.
Go ahead, hit that like, hitthe subscribe, man, and stay
tuned.
Man 2024, we going up, but yo,today we have a special guest

(03:34):
man, somebody that's been on theshow before but not.
That wasn't good enough, man.
So he was like yo, let's linkup again.
He came back, we come, wecoming back around.
You know, I'm saying we gotsome special announcements that
that's going on, but we also gotsome fundraising.
So do me a favor, hit that like, hit the subscribe and then
share this as well.
Man.
So we got a beat maker.
You know he's originally from,I want to say NY, yeah, so so

(03:59):
born in.
San.

Speaker 2 (04:01):
Francisco, but I'm a New Yorker through and through
Since I was one and a half, grewup, lived in New York City
until age 18.
I'm definitely a New Yorker.
I walk fast, even if I livehere on the West coast now I
kind of bicoastal, but I go backand and you know my like I said
when I moved out here, my, myonly car was a subway car when I
moved out here.
So I was a New Yorker in thisstrange land we call California

(04:26):
New Yorker, man New Yorker.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
So we got a New Yorker, but then he's.
You catch him to the accenthere and there, but it's you
know, I, I, I saw him in the car.
You know, I saw that in Texasstate.
I was like, yeah, you got to befrom these goals, me too.
So I knew that already.
But anyway, so you know, we, wegot beat maker.
You know what I mean?
Beat junkie.

(04:49):
He's a DJ, he's a, uh, psycho,psychological, psychologist Wow,
why am I missing up their wordA psychologist, cultural
ambassador man.
He's an activist.
He's definitely in thecommunity, he's all over the
world as well.
He's a director of a nonprofitum, which is today's future
sound.
If you don't know who I'mtalking about already, you need

(05:12):
to.
Man, he just completed a youknow 365 day challenge as well.
So we're going to get into that.
We're going to talk about thatas well.
He's also here, Um, we're goingto talk about the fundraising
that we're doing for today'sfuture sound, which reaches not
only you know what I mean UnitedStates communities and stuff
like that, but all around theworld Um that he goes in with

(05:33):
him and his team and reaches outto.
So I want y'all to give it upfor my guy, the one and only
Philip drumming, aka Dr Egon Yo,what's going on?

Speaker 2 (05:46):
And he said Egon, okay, yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:51):
AKA Dr yeah, dr, hey.
I'll rock with that.
I'll say the only thing is Ihey that works.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
Egan is, that's my first you know initial.
That's my email address.
Uh, dr Ely again, aka Philipdrumming.
Filthy beats Also known to tothe kids.
When I'm teaching as Dr Beats,if that's what they choose to
call me, a lot of kids do.
I got my Dr Beats jacket andall that.
But, uh, yeah, shout outs to you, man, I appreciate what you do.
Thank you for you know havingme on the show again and let me

(06:18):
do a redo.
Last time that the soundfidelity, the audio, was
horrible.
I was just about to go toPoland, I was still displaced
from my uh, my apartment and Iwas trying to get the audio
right and the audio went allwrong with a dysfunctional like
lavalier clip mic that just didnot work.
So thank you for let me do thisas honor and privilege to be
here.
Big fan of Rex show podcast andyou, it's a pleasure to meet

(06:43):
you in Texas at the uh, you know, the Texas state hip hop.
Next, 50 beat, cipher beats atbattle.
You, you won't.
We're doing the final.
So big up to you on that.
You and acclimated assassin, itwas San Antonio versus Austin.
In the building it was dope man.
You, you rocked it.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
Yeah, man, I appreciate you for coming on.
Man, thank you for theopportunity.
Yo, we appreciate.
I forgot to add in yourdescription of everything that
you do.
You know what I mean Hero man,cause you know what I mean.
You out there, like, literallyin the streets.
You know what I mean Trying toum change you, you creating
change, you, a change maker man,cause you're out there with the

(07:23):
kids, getting them whilethey're young and just changing
some things um within thecommunity, where it's keeping
them out of jail First of all.
Keeping them out of jail,keeping them out of you know the
, the, the social um.
What do we call that?
Like?
Uh, when they get caught up andhave to go from home to home
like group home, you're socialsystems, the foster, the foster

(07:45):
care system yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:46):
Yeah, man, so a hero man, I got to add that in there.
Man.
So hey, when this is going onthe whole, you know, I mean the
applause is going to be goingthe whole time.
Thank you, no.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
I appreciate it, Um, thank you so much.
Yeah, no, I appreciate it.
You know, we try to do what wecan and we try to be, you know,
a preventative program, but alsoa program that just meets kids
where they're at, on theirheadphones, Um, and helping them
find something that they love.
Uh, you know, trying to helpkids find joy and creativity.

(08:18):
We do also work with kids inthe foster system and with
homeless youth, with houselessyouth.
We work in juvenile detentionsettings.
We're currently working in twodifferent juvenile halls locally
here in Oakland and in SanMateo, which is the county next
to San Francisco.
Um and I do volunteer work inAustralia and other countries in

(08:39):
Latin America, Australia,Oceana, in juvenile halls there
and prisons there, Cause Ibelieve those are some of the
people who've experienced thethe greatest amount of trauma,
along with foster youth andsocial services systems, um, who
really deserve and need that,maybe don't have access to that.
Um, just trying to share whatwhat's therapeutic for us.
Well, you know, our slogan attoday's switcher sound is I wish

(09:01):
I had this when I was a kid,because literally I've heard,
you know so many people, likemore than a hundred volunteers
or people who've heard about ourprogram who are beat makers
verbatim say that I wish I hadthis when I was a kid.
When they're in the schoolswith us seeing it happen, when
they're doing it right, we'rehearing about it and and that's
what we all say.

(09:21):
So it's really in the spirit ofhip hop and each one teach one
of the intergenerational passingon of traditions and culture
and hip hop culture and beatmaking.
I see it as intergenerationalhealing in the face of
intergenerational trauma andtrying to push back against that
and offset that and just offer,you know, joy and connection
and community and opportunity,access to kids, to young people,

(09:46):
even to young adults and olderadults, um, to have that
experience, to give them theexperience.
You know, what we wanted, whatwe wish, what we wish we had
when we were kids.
So this is really themotivating factor, you know our
inner beat making child or nonbeat making child that we're
trying to get there, offeringthat and um, it brings me such
joy to be able to do that andand to be able to build

(10:09):
community, be part of differentcommunities, bring people
together.
That that's really my MO and mymission in life is to is to do
that and to try to inspire morejoy for everyone.
Um, in a world that can be verydifficult and challenging, and
all that give us these ways tosee, you know, these pockets of
joy, of beat cyphers and in inbeat making workshops and

(10:30):
therapeutic beat makingworkshops and classes and
community settings.
So that's, you know.
That's, that's what I'm allabout and what we're all about
at Tilly's Future Sound and whatwe try to do, and, and it's
first beat nerds and beatjunkies and what have you, who
may not necessarily want to bein the club all the time, or we
want to play our beats, we don'twant to be hearing just like
top four, your radio orwhatever's being programmed on

(10:52):
Spotify or about by thealgorithms, but share our music.
So that's just a little bit tospeak to your point.
Thank you for that beautifulintro.

Speaker 1 (11:00):
Yeah, yo, man.
So yo, that's.
That's where we are right now.
I'm going to just this.
Is you know what?
I'm going to just open up mylife just a little bit, man.
So, if you know, I was in thefoster care system, right.
So you know if, if this wasavailable to me when this
happened because I've alwaysloved music ever since I was a

(11:22):
kid like I would get in troublefor my mom beating on the table
you know what I'm saying Like Iwould get in trouble for a.

Speaker 2 (11:27):
You know, hey, can't stop that drumming.

Speaker 1 (11:28):
You know what I mean.
So shout out to mom she.
She didn't kill me.
So look at me now, mom, hey,but yo, she's like, if we, if
this was available to me, andlike yo, I, I don't I have no
clue where where a lot of peoplewould be, especially if they
were in a foster care system,jail system, juvenile detention

(11:51):
system, like it, would have madea tremendous impact.
And y'all been doing this forwhat?
11, 12 years now, I think.
So, um, yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:01):
I took it over in 2012 and really kind of formally
launched the structure of it inMarch of 2013.
Uh, you know Ben Dorazo Dorazo,who you know does the two MPC
thing, and his incrediblebeatmaker musician himself
founded it and came up with thename in 2010.
And I took it over from him.
I was working with him from2010, 2011, 12 ish, uh, and then

(12:26):
look it over in full and kindof really took it to its
structure and kind ofimplemented the, the early
iterations, the early form of,like the therapeutic beatmaking
model and thinking about it froma therapeutic and educational
perspective, and then brought inall these folks then.
So that's, yeah, you've beengoing for a minute and, um, yeah
, it's, it's been a beautifulthing having the community

(12:47):
involved.

Speaker 1 (12:48):
Man, incredible man, I um, so I'm a loop right back
around to that, but I got tostart with you man, like, uh,
you know, how did you even comeup?
I'm?
I'm going in your history justa little bit so the internet can
understand, like as a you'renot only a doctor man, so you're
not only uh, you know anactivist and everything like

(13:08):
that, You're also a beatmakertoo.
And then you have your your ownmusical journey.
So my first question would behow did you even come up with
the name?
Uh, philip Drummond or Philip,uh, philip the Drummond?
You know cause, when I sit,when I, when I hear Philip
Drummond, I think differentstrokes.
So tell me about that, yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:29):
Yeah, so I had a, a way whacker name that I'm not
going to disclose, maybe to thatand um, when I wasn't taking
myself seriously, and uh, my boyin New York who he was like
three or four years younger thanme but he was always like
putting me up on game or alwaysknew about like the dope, the

(13:51):
dope stuff, the dope shit.
But he put me up on Saigon andMark Ronson before they blew up
and told me about it.
He had, I think, either Illajayor J Dilla's four track that he
probably never returned to them, but like that's the kind of
kid he was in like as a freshmanin high school, like and he
could rhyme, get freestyle, hewas super dope.
So I was hanging out with him,we were, we were like you know,

(14:12):
working on music together andjust kick it.
We I mean we went inside likeEminem, right before he blew up,
when he was still slim, shadyat at Tramps in New York and
when, like my name is, was onlyon late night radio.
So he, he just knew what was up, right, and he's like yo man,
you should call yourself PhillipDrummond.
And I was like, yeah, you'reright, I'm from the Upper East
side of Manhattan.

(14:33):
I'm a, you know, middle classwhite dude, upper middle class
white dude.
From my origins, um, and I feellike you know, this is kind of
after the fact, myinterpretation, but in a way not
being born into you know hiphop necessarily.
I mean, I grew up in New Yorkcity and I really fell in love,
like in fifth grade, with it andyou know, but it wasn't
something that like my family ormy community per se, you know,

(14:55):
was like.
You know, it's not my originand I'm, you know, I'm a visitor
in hip hop.
Being a white dude, I'm apractitioner in a hip hop head
through and through, and itshapes the way that I view the
world.
But it seemed kind of like aninteresting metaphor to kind of
be, you know, adopting blackculture but also acknowledging,
you know where I come from andmy, my privilege in my class and
not denying it.
And it also like you just tellany hip hop head over the age of

(15:18):
35, you know, I say my name andlike they get it, they laugh
also cause they're like thegenerational thing in the show.
Um, it also kind of it's cool,you, the way you can kind of
flip the name right, like my boy, lush, one who I made albums
with.
Some people may know him fromgrind time or from, uh, you know
KOTD or you know all the, youknow all these different battle
leagues, cause we were we usedto do a lot of MC battles

(15:40):
together and music together.
Uh, would call me like filthydrummer, right.
And then I just put out a drumand bass like a jungle record
remix of a boom back track I didyears ago, just dropped that a
couple of months ago.
And, and you know, when I dodrum and bass, when I do jungle,
I'm Philip, drum and bass,right.
So it's got the drums in it.
Filthy drums.
I really like dirty, grimy, boomback, crunchy drums, um.

(16:03):
So I think there's a lot ofways that you can play with the
name.
That makes makes sense.
I just I encourage people tocall me filthy.
If you want to call mesomething for short, don't call
me Philip, cause that soundslike a real person's name and I
I look like I could damn near bea Philip, but I'm not.
My name is, so don't call mePhilip.
Call me filthy, that'll be the.
You know, that's one of mytaglines.
Call me filthy, but with a pHUm, and so that's that's the,

(16:29):
the, the origin story of thename.
That kind of has differentiterations filthy, filthy beats.
Filthy, drumming, filthydrummer Philip, drum and bass Um
, you know, some people call medrumming, uh, and I like the
drums, the drums of the core.
That's the.
You know, the basis of hip hopand the foundation, the breaks,
the drums, the rhythms, um, yeah, and I've just played off of

(16:49):
that and um.
So that's, that's the.
That's the name, that's theorigin.
Um, you got a little, a littlehistory of my early kind of
iterations in hip hop there.

Speaker 1 (16:59):
Yo, if if for the internet's man that don't know,
lush one man, um, I think he'sgot his own.
He's got his own right now.
Um, I've been seeing this onefor years, cause you know I'm a
better rapper, I'm a betterrapper, and so um, cause he's
always the one that's like um,he's got like a little bit of a
raspy voice, but he's so like um, yeah, Well, yeah, I mean, we

(17:23):
put out in 2008,.

Speaker 2 (17:24):
We put out our opus, which took three years to make,
called music for dope runs, and,um, it was ironic, cause I was
in graduate school at the timetrying to like counter the
effects of drugs and you knowall the kind of like illicit
stuff, and then it's it's alwayscomplicated but I used to like
wear a mask and hide my facecause I also didn't want, like

(17:45):
my clients or patients likeseeing me or associating me with
it with a record like that, youknow, with that name.
And so I told him look, wecan't just be glorifying selling
drugs, moving drugs, takingdrugs, like this can't.
It has to be three dimensional.
It has there has to be anoffset to this, there has to be
the negative side.
So we, the record's actuallykind of deep in the way that, um

(18:05):
, there's a song about likeMaria, who you know, based on
Maria full of grace, who is a,you know, it's about a drug mule
and it's telling her story andher biography and her trauma and
her history.
And then, like the last trackwith like the source is all
about when you get popped, whenyou get caught, and then the
music video has him gettingpopped, you know, and uh and and
getting caught and being sentaway.

(18:25):
So it's, I really wanted tokind of offset that Um.
So yeah, and, and you know, lushand I like I kind of brought
lush into this you know what welater call a fresh coast scene
of of hip hop, which reallyinfluenced uh battle wrap in a
major way, even on aninternational scale, in terms of
like multi-syllabic, like up,like leveling up of, like

(18:47):
rhyming and battle rhyming,multi-syllabic punchlines and
rhyme schemes in a way that youknow, most folks weren't really
doing it, compared to how wewere doing it in Cali and in the
West coast.
Um, so there's a lot, there's alot of behind the scenes that
people don't know about.
Um, but yeah, lush and I kindof brought together he labeled
it fresh coast, taking that fromlike a project blow kind of

(19:07):
thing that he had heard before.
But that was something that wewere really involved in and we
made a lot of music together.
We traveled France togetherwhen a group called Roland
Rockers and its first iteration.
So there's, there's historythere and I used to be super,
super deep.
I used to have one of thebiggest uh collections of battle
rap and MC battle footage inthe world and would ship it
literally all over the world.
I shipped it to Australia.

(19:28):
Mc justice, who won scribblejam years ago, literally bought
the entire collection, studiedthe source and the other you
know fresh coast MC's battlerappers and then came back and
beat him with his own formula.
So and you know, hello, likethere's a lot, there's a lot of
history there.

Speaker 1 (19:44):
That's battle rap 101 .

Speaker 2 (19:46):
Yeah, wow, but anyway yeah, shots to lush and, um,
yeah, that's a.
That's a little, a little pieceof my history before I kind of
migrated much more into doingstrictly beat battles and beat
ciphers, uh, from the MC battleand MC kind of uh battle battle
rap scene.
I put on tons and tons ofbattles captured.
You know a lot of.

(20:07):
Did you know videos withavocado?
I brought avocado into uh tolike document.
You know the, the battles andthat's how he got involved, you
know, through that with grandtime.
Uh, I was vice president ofgrand time for a minute before I
stepped down and then you knowKOTD and that kind of thing.
So there's, there's littlethings here.
This is like a little backstory.
Most people don't know thisstuff but I, you know, I've been

(20:28):
.
I've been around in a lot ofdifferent cutty places and
behind the scenes, um, and donea lot of work in kind of
different aspects of hip hopaside from just beat making and
uh and all that.

Speaker 1 (20:40):
So Wow, you've been.
You've been doing a lot ofstuff.
How, how long have you been in?
You know this journey of hiphop.

Speaker 2 (20:49):
I mean it depends where you define it.
Starting, I mean, I fell inlove with rap and hip hop.
Um, arguably, when I heard this, the single from tribe called
quest in like 91, 92, uhscenario, right, I remember
Laura Nadoff's, and rest inpeace brought the single
cassette into our classroom andwe were studying rock and roll

(21:11):
in fifth grade it was the dopestclass we did like this music
video, we're studying rock androll.
It was like the illest fifthgrade class of all time and um,
but she put in that tape and weused to wrap along with it here
we go Yo, here we go Yo.
So what's so?
What's what's the scenario Likewe're all rapping during break
period to scenario.
And then I've seen the musicvideo for it which is like this

(21:31):
you know, 90s, quick timetracker, 90s, looking like video
, with all the the cheesy 90video effects on, like the video
editing software from back then, which it was an interesting
kind of meta take.
But I was also in New York city,right, yeah, growing up in
Manhattan, the birthplace of hiphop, where, like hip hop was

(21:51):
the finding style and aestheticand like the coolest thing.
So I really fell in love withthat.
And then Cyprus Hill, insane inthe membrane, I think it was.
It might have been the summerbefore or the summer after fifth
grade, which was the same yearas scenario by trial call quest
and I was just like yo, this isit.
They play the best part againand again and it makes me like

(22:13):
super hype and like this is it?
The drums, the sounds, the, therhymes, the energy, the vibe.
So I think from there, likethat was the beginning of my
falling in love with hip hop,and then it just kind of
continued and beats like throughmiddle school.
You know the beastie boys likeWu Tang had come out when I was
in seventh grade and that was athing, you know.

(22:35):
Snoop Dogg listening to doggiestyle.
I thought that album wasamazing.
The beats were incredible.

Speaker 1 (22:40):
And to me.

Speaker 2 (22:42):
You know people will, will, you know, definitely
strongly disagree with me, but II ranked for me the production
on doggie style by Dre by quick,by you know, other folks who
were involved in whether it wasbattle cat or I don't know who
else didn't get their Russiancredits on that, but no matter
that influenced me in like Ithink that's a better produced

(23:02):
album than the chronic, and alot of people were will object
to that, but, like for me, Ithink doggie style is one of, if
not the best produced recordsof all time, along with Midnight
Marauders.
So I really was influenced bythat, by both tribe and Wu Tang,
snoop Dogg, dr Dre, cypressHill, which was like West Coast

(23:23):
but they had this East Coastaesthetic.
And DJ Mugs is a majorinfluence in one of my favorite
producers, like insane in themembrane.
What the hell is that sound?
Oh, it's a horse, you know.
Or, like you know, hits fromthe bomb.
What the hell is that samplefrom that?
Like it's amazing, you know,when the shit goes down, you
know, cock the hammer.
All of that, Like that wasinfiltrating my my eardrums and

(23:44):
you know, was in my mind andmind.
You, I'm walking around NewYork City and like a champion
hoodie and you know, baggy, youknow, or silver tab jeans or you
know, like that's the, that'swhat everyone's wearing, stoosey
, go downtown to the store inthe village, go down to St
Mark's to cop your T-shirts likehip hop T-shirts and music
T-shirts and all sorts of otherstuff you know.

(24:05):
So it's really that was thekind of the backdrop for me and
kind of when I fell in love, andthen it just increased more and
more as I went from middleschool to high school and I
really discovered more and moreof like.
I'm also listening toelectronic music, another kind
of beats oriented music housemusic, jungle, drum and bass,
trip hop, porters head I thinkJeff Barrow is one of the best

(24:27):
beat makers of all time.
Who's not credited with likethe beats on the first porters
head album or ill, like Nascould have wrapped over that.
You know what I mean, thesegrimy, boom, bad beats, but it's
trip hop.
So tricky, Maxing Quay wassomething I was like bumping
hard.
A lot of underground trip hopand electronic music.
Daft Punk's first album when Ihit 10th grade, even though it's

(24:50):
house music, it's very muchindebted to hip hop and loop
based electronic music.
And you know DaFunk is like afunky West Coast funk.
You know Detroit technoinspired kind of all the above
and a maligation of all thoseinfluences.
So I'm listening both to likeelectronic music.
I'm listening to mixed showswhere they're playing, like you

(25:12):
know, lesson Six by Cutchemistand then also playing, like you
know, leg rhythm, digital andDaft Punk and other electronic
stuff and this melange of beats.
So I'm going to.
You know raves and underground.
You know parties in New YorkCity.
Concrete Jungle is a jungleparty in New York City that you
know we used to go to and gointo underground hip hop shows,
like having access to thewetlands, to tramps, to SOBs

(25:36):
like these are all classicplaces where underground hip hop
was alive and well.
I saw the roots play like sixtimes under filling record.
You know recording artists, jamsession.
You know Sausageexe and youknow Guru get on stage there and
you know just it was insanelike Fifth Platoon, the X-Men
before they were theexecutioners.
You know it was like I was solucky to be there and have

(26:00):
access to, like, the halftimeshow, wnyu, you know, stretching
, bobbito 89, tech 9.
You know, listening toStretch's first album, that
really got me into a lot ofunderground stuff, including
company flow.
And then I later fell in lovewith company flow, you know, fun
Crusher, plus Major InfluenceLP, all that, so it's like

(26:21):
there's so much there.
And then moving to Californiawhen I was 18, and then getting
involved both in the Bay Areahip hop scene, seeing the
premiere of Scratch, like, withthe DJs who were in it in the
theater and the premiere it wascrazy Having access to people
there.
And then going to SouthernCalifornia and going like,
linking up with cats from SoCal,being able to drive to Project

(26:42):
Bloat in LA, you know, andhaving access to all that and J5
was popping off dilated peoplesbeing in Cali for that in that
vicinity.
You know it was just.
I was really tapped into it.
That's when Future Primitivewas going to in San Francisco
which was like a collaborationof Turntabless and Beatmakers
and they'd have liveperformances of, like, you know,

(27:03):
shortcut beats, cut chemists,stuff like that.
That whole scene in SanFrancisco and the Bay Area.
So much.
You know it was the Turntablismand the early iterations of
beat culture and instrumentalbeat music like trip hop or not,
you know.

Speaker 1 (27:19):
Man, yo you've been all over.
You've been in some of the yointernet.
You're gonna have to rewindthis and then Google everything
that he was talking about.
There's so much in what youjust said in the last.
You know two, three, fourminutes, man, like I'm gonna

(27:39):
have to go back and listen to itand then do my research on a
good portion of it.
Man, but yo we.
Okay, let me start at home.
You know, growing up I don'tknow if it was mom, dad, I don't
know if it was brother'ssisters.
You got older brothers andsisters.
You got, you know, uncles,aunties, grandmoms, grandmoms,

(28:01):
grandmoms, grandmoms, grandmomslike who was playing the music
in your house and what were theyplaying?

Speaker 2 (28:09):
So I grew up with my dad playing piano and guitar and
singing and it's not what hedid professionally, but like he
was incredible.
I have vivid memories ofsitting underneath my
grandmother's grand piano in herapartment in New York City and
my dad would play, like you know, scarlottie or Beethoven or

(28:32):
Chopin, and like sitting underyou're catching the
reverberations, like fromunderneath the piano, which is
kind of ill you know, and my dad, you know, could also play
guitar and sing.
He was in his singing group.
He had even made records incollege and traveled with like a
Russian chorus and all thiskind of stuff.
My mom wasn't particularlymusical.

(28:53):
She wished I think she wishedthat she was, and so she liked
music and had an appreciationfor it.
You know, like my mom's thekind of person that she's got a
pretty good taste in general.
So she came back from Jazz Festone year where there were like
the meetings, the psychoanalyticmeetings that she was attending
, with like a funky meter CD anda Dr John CD and I'm like yo,
that's dope.

(29:13):
My mom's buying a meter CD likecause she likes it, that's a
good look.
I'm like mom, this is dope, I'mgonna sample this.
But yeah, my dad was definitelyvery musical.
I had some older cousins shoutout to my older cousins, andrea
and Ellen, who were also likejust really cool, really tapped

(29:35):
in and were into all differentgenres of music.
But they're the ones who toldme, like man, paul's Boutique is
the best Beastie Boys album,which I think is up for debate.
I think is very arguable, evenwhen it check your head was out,
maybe ill communication hadjust come out or whatever, and
I'm hearing like illcommunication in seventh grade

(29:57):
and Q-Tips verse on it and thatkind of stuff.
But, like one of my cousinseven told me she's like man,
epmd is kind of cheesy with thepop crossover and so, even
though EPMD is some mentalclassic hip hop and make dope
records and Eric Parrish dopeproducer and they put on Red man

(30:18):
, who's so dope and I love too,I think I always had a bias, a
prejudice against them becausemy older cousin told me that and
because she would put me onlike the dope shit, like
underground crazy shit, and Ithink there were probably all
their older folks that I don'tknow who put me up on some game,
but a lot of it was discoveringstuff was the radio I would
just literally used to go.

(30:38):
There was this record storecalled HMV on 86 and Lexington
in New York and Manhattanmassive CD record store and I
literally used to go and hangout in the hip hop section
because they would get to playwhatever music they wanted.
That's how I heard the StretchArmstrong Mixed CD volume, one
that had company flow on it, hadgetting close to the go out in

(30:59):
a tight situation like Lace theBooms, all these really dope,
grimy underground hip hop cats,and so then I discovered a lot
of underground through that andjust look at album covers like I
seen the LaTierrex album foryears and thought that looks
dope but I haven't heard it.
Should I cop it?
And later on, yeah, I ended upcopping it.
It was amazing.
It was produced by DJ Shadowand Chief Excel and had Latif

(31:22):
and Lyric Born rapping on it,doing some of the most mind
blowing am seeing over.
You know that I had heard oversome of the dope is beats I had
heard.
So I was literally going to HMValmost every day after school
and just kicking it in the hiphop section, just looking at
albums and wondering what theywere.
You know I had access to fatbeats and go down to you know
later in high school go down tofat, beats yeah and like you

(31:46):
would walk into fat beats andthere'd be you know there's a
turntable and they would beplaying and all the records
would be like yo, what's the hotshit, what's the new shit?
I heard nonprofits, which isSage Francis, that's his group
with Joey Beats.
I heard off a dat tape beforeit was wax in fat beats I heard
bounce and I said what the hellis this?

(32:07):
This is fire.
I need this right.
So then I went and copped theScribble Jam, you know VHS
cassette, cause Sage Francis wasbattling on it.
I was like I wanna see some rapbattle, I wanna see what he
does.
He won it.
Okay, I know him fromnonprofits.
So you know the different thingsthat you have access to in the
early years of the internet andkind of pre-internet and
pre-YouTube that.

(32:28):
And then going off to schoolhaving access to you know high
speed internet downloading likeCuddy underground Canadian hip
hop, like Dirty Circus fromVancouver and what called Dirty
Circus and I forgot the othersubgroups associated with them
and like Benefit right In 99,the kid that recorded his whole

(32:50):
album with one of those you knowgray computer mics and made all
the beats for it had thatrecord so sick and the Maro song
, you know, like that, and Edonat the same time, like my boy
from San Jose, they wereunderground hip hop cats too and
they're like they hadtechniques.
So I used to go over their dormroom and they'd be like yo,
check out Edon.
It's like who's this cat?

(33:11):
Edon so sick?
This is ridiculous.
So I was downloading all thisstuff, downloading tons and tons
atmosphere like back in 99, thewhatever, the Lucy 40P or maybe
pre that, and hearing thatstuff and getting access to that
through these kind of backchannels and of course later
Napster and you know, likeLimeMirror, but before that,

(33:32):
like off these servers, like offthese crews that were ripping
these underground records andplaying them and listening to
underground hip hop and justlistening to the underground
station.
And you know, I went to UC SantaBarbara in California and being
with all these you knowFilipino, like turntabless cats
from LA and from the Bay who,like the Filipino frat, was the
only frat that I would considerkicking it with because they all

(33:54):
had technique 1200s andVestax05 pros set up in their
frat house.
So we used to go over and likescratch or kick it or talk about
beats and just nerd out on shit.
So it was really it was a lotof that.
It was coming with this kind ofalready this knowledge of
underground hip hop and comingfrom New York city in the
renaissance, you know, of NewYork hip hop, indie hip hop, and

(34:17):
this is interesting becauseI've been listening to Talib
Kuali's podcast and him talkingabout and interviews with him
and other people and he's soeloquently, he just perfectly
phrases it that theanti-commercial like kind of
stance of New York undergroundhip hop and underground hip hop
in the US against the jiggymovement and like the whole
commercial thing that washappening from like 95, 96 on

(34:41):
and how we were so suchunderground, real hip hop, you
know.
That kind of shit, like what hesays to a T is like how I felt
and how I experienced it and howI lived it in terms of being
like pretty anti-commercial andtrying to create a space early
on with, like you know, groupsthat I put together.
You know social circles of usthat used to kick it and listen
to underground hip hop and like,oh, have you heard the new

(35:03):
Deltron record?
Oh, automator, da, da, da da.
Later I started the hip hop clubat UC Santa Barbara and we used
to literally go into this iskind of the early iterations
before today's Future Sound.
We used to go to elementaryschools and with B-boys and
B-girls and turntables and lugthe gear and set up and perform
for the kids and then do littledemos for that.

(35:24):
Have them do it.
We started a campus visitationprogram for kids from
underserved communities,bringing them on campus and
doing both hip hop likeworkshops and performances, but
also telling them how they couldget into the university.
We used to put on poppingbattles and bring up you know
legendary funk styles dancersfrom LA, from Long Beach, from
Inland Empire in California anddown from the bay like some of

(35:46):
the best funk style dancers.
You know people you've seen inlike step up part five, like Mad
Chad, and we used to drop downthe project blow it Like.
So we had access to like a lotof cool stuff and was kind of
integrating all this reallyunderground hip hop and you know
extensions of hip hop danceculture, rave.
You know rave music, electronicmusic, breakbeat based music

(36:07):
and just kind of learning frommy peers and later starting the
hip hop club at UCSB putting onbattles.
We put on a battle that thestudent center was only supposed
to have 800 people.
We had 1200 people in thestudent center for this MC
battle that I arrangedImmaculate, you know, came down
from Portland and you know flewhim down and he slept on my

(36:27):
couch at our house and we had somany people packed in there and
aligned out the door.
You know a big cash prize,people who'd been on like the
MTV.
You know battles and arelegendary.
Now no can do from people.
People might know him from LowEnd Theory and from Project Blow
.
Yeah, it was crazy.

(36:48):
It was crazy just having accessto that in your kind of your
periphery or being adjacent tothat set of barbers, like 90
miles from LA.
So it's not a long drive andyou know college and
universities are reallybeautiful resource for meeting
people from all over, especiallyin Cali, and being able to have
time just to do that stuff.
So that's kind of like it wasboth New York and it was

(37:10):
California.
It was my dad moved toCalifornia, to San Francisco,
when I was nine so I'd spendtime out there and then I could
get access to the undergroundscene in you know Oakland,
Berkeley, you know livinglegends, and then you had the
San Francisco scene.
That was really really likedope at the time, with Future
Primitive, like I mentioned, anda lot of stuff popping off
there.

Speaker 1 (37:32):
Wow, man, and all of that starting from you just
being next to well with yourpops, but then also with I think
you said your mom or yourgrandma was playing the piano.

Speaker 2 (37:47):
So my dad was playing the piano.

Speaker 1 (37:48):
Dad was playing the piano.
So the energy playing the piano.
And then I just want you tothink about this You're like
you're a little kid sittingunderneath to the piano just
catching the vibes, and thenthat transcends all the way to
what you were just talking about, which is curating event shows

(38:10):
and, you know, going to fatfeeds.
Oh my gosh man.

Speaker 2 (38:16):
It's crazy, man, like my parents had a turntable and
a CD player so I would put therecords on.
I was like listening to myparents' records, like the
Beatles and other stuff likethat, and also playing dire
straits, you know, like Moneyfor Nothing, right?
So I had access to vinyl andthen I my neighbors, when I was

(38:37):
like nine, 10, maybe 11, threwout a turntable and hundreds of
records which I took in Now,mind you, when I was and so I
started like because I wanted toscratch them and I could
scratch the dinosaur record Ihad as a little kid right Is a
turntable with a could alsorecord.

(38:57):
It had a built-in tape deck,right, so you could record from
the vinyl, so I could recordmyself scratching, but only from
one deck.
I mean, I got a lot of like Iget similar stories to so many
of us, like the pause, thedubbing, cassettes and recording
from the radio catching thedopest song on, you know,
funkmaster Flex, or on 89.9, oryou know the halftime show WNYU

(39:18):
with, like, dj Eclipse and DJRiz and all that.
I used to call in all the timeand talk to them and talk to the
lady that did the halftime showwith them, and I want to hell
of tickets to see like thearsonists and nonfiction or see
like Karris won at Tramps andlike for Synco the Myo in 97.
That was a crazy show.
But I also, you know from thetime I was a kid and I think

(39:39):
this is a similar story to a lotof people who became DJs or MCs
or beatmakers.
Like as a kid I used to recordvinyl the tape, or record with
like a tape recorder myself andI would be doing like radio DJ
stuff.
So I'd be like narrating, likemaking my own DJ mix show right
and like playing records andintroducing it Like with my

(40:01):
Fisher Prize turntable and thenyou know, later my other
turntable and all this vinylthat I collected.
And I started buying vinyl inhigh school with the intention
of scratching and making beatsand all that.
And I got to give a shout outto Mr Ruhman, who's an art
teacher at my high school.
I never had a class with himbut he was cool and I used to go
kick at free periods and justtalk about music with them.

(40:22):
He put me up on, like you know,that Tricky and Portis had both
sampled the same Isaac Hayessample and like bomb the bass
and all this other stuff and Iremember wanting I used to get
pro sound and stage lightingcatalog and you would have, like
the MPC, you know, 2000 MPC,2000 XL, the S20.
So I remember for years beinglike man, I want to get an S,

(40:44):
should I get an S20 or an MPC?
I want to make beats.
I want to make beats.
And I went to I think it wasSam.
So Sam Ash in New York City islike you know, if you watch the
Wu Tang series, that's where hegets it.

Speaker 1 (40:55):
Yeah, nice, right and like yeah, you're trying to
sneak it down his book bag.

Speaker 2 (40:59):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
So I went there and asked thedude I'm like yo, I want to make
beats, I want to get like anMPC.
And the guy's like, look, areyou going to college?
I must have been a senior orjunior in high school, he said.
I said yeah.
So I know the MPC is sexy and Iknow it's like you have this
romanticized notion of it isexpensive.
But if you're getting acomputer there's no point in

(41:20):
spending all this money on itwhen you could get these
programs that are coming out.
Essentially he was talkingabout DAWs and beat making
applications.
And you know, get a MIDIcontroller, just use a much more
powerful computer to make beatsthan you know ostensibly
wasting $2,500 on an MPC.
Or you know, take advantage ofthat.
And that's what I did.

(41:42):
I ended up doing that.
I was already in 97s, like Ireally wanted to make beats.
So I was using my littlebrother's computer that he had
saved up for and had like thedeep concentration by ARM
compilation with like lesson sixby it, had like all these
turntables on it and cutchemists, and it had this thing
called Mixman where you couldplay the loops from the tracks.
And then I had like the firstiteration of FL Studio.

(42:04):
Propellerhead's firstapplication before Reason was
Rebirth, which emulated like a909, a TR909 and a 303.
And so I was making reallycrappy beats on there and then
you know other trackers or beatmaking programs.
Then went to college, got CoolEdit Pro shout out, peter
Quistagard, appreciate you,peter Quistagard, for that crack

(42:26):
.
Cool Edit Pro was making beatson Cool Edit Pro which became
Adobe Audition, sonic FoundryAcid, fl Studio programming
drums in FL Studio, looping andchopping also in Sonic Foundry
Acid and, yeah, making somereally trash beats until I
finally made you know a goodbeat.
But that was the journey inmeeting kids who were DJs and

(42:48):
turntables from like SoCal andmeeting other cats who were
interested in beat making andall that kind of stuff.
So it was like all thesedifferent sources of input.
But I was just really curiousand really seeing anyone who had
knowledge about like how tomake beats, how to scratch, you
know all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 1 (43:08):
Man, man, I gotta ask you, this man Speaking you
going through all of this, likewhat was that one beat that you
heard?
That was like it kind of justmessed you up.
It was like holy shit, man,like I'm in it right now.
What was that one beat for you?

(43:28):
Because everybody got one.
It might may have been a couplebeats, but what was the couple
beats that blew your mind, man?

Speaker 2 (43:36):
I think they would be like the first songs that I
named when I fell in love withhip hop listening to scenario,
because that beat was amazingand then, you know, insane in
the membrane.
For me I always listen to thebeat first, and then if the raps
are dope too, then I'm evenmore about it, but like that's
what caught me I remember.

(43:56):
The other thing that comes tomind is like hearing Lesson Six
by Cut Chemist, but also hearinglike.
When I first heard DJ Shadow'sMidnight in a Perfect World and
introducing starting trackBuilding Steam with the Green
Assault, I was like yo, what thefuck is this Like?
What are these drums?

(44:17):
What is this piano sample?
These vocals like this is heavy.
I used to go to sleep, you know,like almost every night
listening to like that or PortisHead or Tricky, and then you
know wake up in the morningsometimes to that.
You know there was also likeget it together by the Beast
Boys.
That beat is incredible, thatjazz beat, that, like you know,

(44:40):
short piano loop.
I was listening to Beck too andlike, arguably Beck it's kind
of like trash can.
Hip hop beats very like grimyand like early lo-fi, but to me,
arguably Beck was singing overpseudo-rapping on its first
album, mellow gold over you knowboom-bat beats and you know
kind of I was also listening tolike a lot of alternative rock

(45:02):
and stuff like that too, thatkind of you know bridged over.
But yeah, man, and like youknow hearing like when Moment of
Truth came out, I think it was11th grade in high school.

Speaker 1 (45:15):
I want to say it was like 97th.

Speaker 2 (45:19):
Those beats were incredible, like work, or you
know my STEEZ, like who juststarts an 808 snare drum or 909
snare drum, like that you know.
And like those drums were socompressed and so saturated and
distorted and like it was soinnovative of DJ Premier the way
that he did that Omen of Truth,jfk to LAX, like I reckon

(45:44):
that's one of the best producedhip hop albums and in my top
three or four best producedrecords of all time, up there
with Midnight Marauders andBizarre Ride.
When I heard Bizarre Ride, likeYamama or obviously everyone
passing me and those passing meby, but like Yamama, oh shit.
Like I think Bizarre Ride isone of the best produced records

(46:04):
of all time and most people arelike oh, la Cabin, but for me
it's not La Cabin, it's BizarreRide.
Jay Swift is one of the.
He has a smaller catalogbecause of, like you know, his
addiction issues and all thatkind of stuff.
But the guys I think one of thebest boom-bat beat makers of
all time that's really slept onwho made incredible records Like
, and Bizarre Ride is a perfectexample of that.
I think it's almost perfectlyproduced record album.

(46:28):
So to me that's the kind ofstuff, that aesthetic along with
like Cypress Hill, dj Mugs, djShadow, dj Premier, rza.
Like when you first hear likeWu Tang and like how grimy those
beats are and like what he didwith like the saturation and the
distortion.
So I think a lot of that stuff,a lot of East Coast but also

(46:49):
West Coast stuff.
Hearing Latterics man, like theLatterics self-titled Latterics
album and the song Latterics,that opens up the record with
the rapping simultaneously atdifferent rhythms with different
cadences over, like, like howdid DJ Shadow make that beat?
It's like, it's like a yourmind is melting kind of beat

(47:10):
matches perfectly them rappingat the same time in your left
and right ear, like the whole.
And like LP Eight Steps toPerfection, company Flow that
Extrude, calude, extrude.
How do you make a beat likethat?
What is that?
You know, and Ann Burners laterfigured out.

(47:31):
You know a lot of what LP wasdoing was taking like disco
samples and slowing them down 30, 40 BPM.
You know the really funky, likefunky tracks and slowing them
down and that's how you get thatgrimy.
You know, time stretched butstill funky kind of, but dirty
but like you know, those aretracks that stick out to me.
There's a lot of other ones.

(47:51):
The other one for me and Imentioned this on the interview
last time that we did last timeis Verse Murphy.
When I got into college andfreshman year of hip hop when I
discovered Sacred Hoop, it was aBay Area slash Arizona hip hop
group.
In Verse Murphy, it's VRSEMurphy who's doing some of like
the craziest, like combining,using samples that you would

(48:15):
never imagine, like using, likeyou know, atmospheric jungle
sounds layered over like a congoloop, layered with the vocal
sample from Run Around Sue,layered with the music from
Fellini's Eight and a Half, andthen sampling like totally other
, like like crazy 70s standupcomedy.

(48:37):
Now, I think that's in thespirit of and in the legacy of,
like Prince Paul and Prince PaulI also heard on Deep
Concentration had a scratchtrack and a beat track on there.
It was one of my favorites onthat record.
Like Deep Concentration was anincredible turntable as a beat
record put out by Om Records,who were based in San Francisco,
had lessons six by Cut Chemist.

(48:58):
Keep on referencing that.
That shit blew my mind Findingout, like all those turntables
and return the DJ put out byBomb Hip Hop by Bomb Records,
which was also based in SanFrancisco Dave Paul, billy Jam,
invisible scratch pickles,discovering them, buying a herb
magazine with the scratchpickles on the cover, like

(49:19):
really that was like thebeginning of my, my oriental,
you know, old school hip hopculture and like I was already
in it in high school and livingin New York and seeing
nonfiction hearing.
You know Necro's beats LikeNecro's beats were crazy too.
You know nonfiction's beatswere dope, they were rapping
over fire boombat beats and theway they were rapping was crazy,

(49:39):
so that DITC production it'skind of like the cliche ones
that a lot of hip boombat headswho grew up in New York or grew
up on that early 90s sound willtell you.
Not even by nature I didn'tknow who was making the beats
but, like you know, feel me flow, but even more so OPP, which by

(50:00):
the way.
That's that, from what Iunderstand, they jacked that
beat from a Tony, what was hisname?
The white dude from Trenton whoput out the breakbeat record
with that beat on it, tony D.
Amazing producer, rustin Pease.
Tony D made incredible beatsand put that out on a breakbeat
record and then they sampled thebreakbeat record and use that

(50:22):
Jackson five, abc sample and allthat.
But you know those kinds ofbeats like the East Coast beats,
yeah, and like I was also likeI was fucking with like dark
side of the moon and Pink Floyd,tough David Bowie, lou Reed,
you know that kind of early 70srock is Led Zeppelin.
So I was listening to the likethe breaks and I kind of didn't
know it.
But also the you know the 70slike aesthetic I was.

(50:45):
Always my favorite music comesfrom typically like the mid,
early to mid 60s to like late70s, early 80s and that would be
the stuff that was beingsampled for a lot of boomback
records and East Coast early 90ship hop.
But I and like you know, I wasalso listening to oldies as a
kid.
Like I got super deep in oldiesas a nine year old.

(51:06):
I used to buy like what youcall like the Swapmeat or the
Flea Market oldies likecompilations and I had no idea
until I got to California thatthere was a low rider oldie
thing that, like Chicanos andlike gangsters, would like bump
in like 50s.
You know oldies and do up andsoul.
And like I heard Al Green forthe first time on an oldies

(51:29):
compilation and James Brown, Iremember the first time I heard
that, even though it's hip hop,or say you know it is hip hop,
right, and I heard like I feelgood and I was like that was my
ninth birthday party.
We were at a billiards hall andI put the quarters in the
jukebox and played that.
I was like I didn't know whatthis is but this is it, like
this is my jam.
So there were several thingsthat you know.

(51:51):
You hear different things asyou over the years, as you get
older and especially the deeperyou get into it, the more you
hear like crazy dope shit thatjust inspires you.
But I think you know those area lot of my production
influences.
I was listening to, you know,trip hop and the English Bristol
sound to the.
You know port, like I said,port said tricky death punk.

(52:13):
So many of those like artiststhat were putting out stuff big
beat in the late nineties it wasbasically up tempo instrumental
boom bap.
The wise guys, dj Touche, goesby fake blood as well and makes
house records and boom bap still.
But like the wise guys, firstrecord is amazing, but I first
heard their second record first.

(52:34):
That's like say ooh la la se,soon come on the Budweiser
commercial track, right they sawthe.
Super Bowl.
I was up on that.
I was in France.
I went to France and they wereplaying the music videos for
like that on TV because Franceis like super hip hop and I
caught the record.
I caught the CD there and I waslike yo, it starts with a
scratch intro.
So that became a thing for meon all my records, where I would

(52:55):
start rap records every timewith a scratch intro, Even if I
wasn't, I was picking the cussout or collaborating with DJ on
the cuss.

Speaker 1 (53:04):
That's how you hook them.

Speaker 2 (53:05):
Yeah, with the script and that's my nod, like every
record should start with a dopescratch intro.
So I did that for a minute andwith the instrumental outro,
even if it was a rap record,it's like the credits rolling
and like a.
I think it's probably.
You know, obviously Pete Rockwould be a big influence too and
his like mini little beats he'ddo with those like instrumental

(53:25):
interludes at the beginning ofa track, like the creator or
whatever, or outros, with likesick little, like loops and
breaks, right.
So a lot of that and a lot oflistening to like a lot of
genres of music, classical,listening to jazz.
I got into jazz in eighth gradeand that was you know.
I think that made from it madeit easier for me to understand

(53:46):
what I was listening to in termsof like tribe or you know, the
Beastie Boys on illcommunication or De La Soul.
I mean man, when I heard De LaSoul, like Boolean Mindstate,
the beats on that are insane andthey have a bunch of live jazz
and funk musicians they got Ithink they have like the meters
or other people in the meters oryou know groups like that
playing on it right, and PrincePaul huge influence, very slept

(54:08):
on as being named one of themost important and best
producers of all time.
The guy's a genius andautomator as well and they're an
enhanced boy modeling school.
When I got, you know, when Igot into college, when I heard
the Truth, which is a GaltMcDermott sample, coffee Cold, j
Live wrapping on it and I don'tknow the vocalist who sings on
it, like I was like what is this?

(54:29):
And then my homie, his boy,came up from, you know, the
Inland Empire in SouthernCalifornia.
We literally set up histechniques on bricks to hold
them up outside.
He had his crates of recordsand he played that break, that
Galt McDermott Coffee Coldsample that samples the Truth on
Hanson Boy modeling school thatyou know automator.
And or Prince Paul sample, andI was like yo, that's where.

(54:52):
So that was a jam for me.
Dj Shadows, you know record onthat Hanson Boy modeling
school's album.
Like that was freshman year ofcollege and was such a big
influence.
First Murphy, you know Edon,there's just there's so many
different dilated peoples.
J5.
I got JU on CD single.

(55:14):
Like what the hell is thatflute sample?
What's Newmark and Cutchemistdoing?
Like who are these guys?
What are they sampling?
Jesus, they can scratch, butthey can make killer beats too.
So that was big, big influence.
And hearing that each time,each iteration, you know, would
get you hyped.

Speaker 1 (55:33):
Yo man, yo okay, listen, internet sale.
You are hearing some dope assstories and some history, some
personal history of you knowfilthy drumming man.
I'm gonna just say filthy, drFilthy, how about that?

Speaker 2 (55:47):
Call me filthy that's the name of my beat tape.

Speaker 1 (55:49):
I gotta say I gotta say doctor man, because you know
what I mean.
You earned that joint and soyou know what I mean.
Dr, filthy man, yo listen.
If y'all like what y'alllistening to, man, hit the like,
hit the subscribe, share thisjoint.
Man, if you own Spotify, youknow Apple, apple Podcast or

(56:11):
Google Podcast or Deezer,wherever you listen to it, man,
go ahead, hit the like all thattype of stuff, man Just gives me
feedback.

Speaker 2 (56:18):
Shout out to Deezer.
I know we on the track Yo, ifyou're listening on Deezer, send
me a DM and I'll send you asticker pack.
I've never met anyone thatactually uses Deezer, but, like
you know, send me a screenshot,I'll hook you up with a.
Deezer sticker pack, buttoday's your sound stickers.

Speaker 1 (56:33):
Yeah, I heard that yo , so my Deezer fans.
Like when I go through statsand stuff like that, I'm like,
okay, what are people listening?
It's iTunes, apple Podcasts,spotify, google, Internet
Explorer, deezer.
Yeah, and I'm like what.

Speaker 2 (56:52):
They say Deezer.

Speaker 1 (56:53):
Deezer, deezer, deezer, deezer, deezer.

Speaker 2 (56:57):
Deezer.
Deezer not so the folks who arelistening on Deezer?
They're crazy.

Speaker 1 (57:02):
Yeah man, yeah man.
That's like streaming onPeriscope yeah aw man, it's
Periscope.

Speaker 2 (57:09):
We're beer can.

Speaker 1 (57:10):
Holy crap, man, yo man.
So dope, dope, dope stories,man.
And that's the reason why Iasked this man, because you know
, kind of going back in my guesshistory, man, it just there's
so much emotion of where youwere when you heard this or that

(57:31):
, or straight up you know what Imean.
Like in it.
And for you, what I'm listeningto right now is you're
listening to world music, fromall around the world, man.
It's not just one genre thatyou're listening to.
You're listening to you knowwhat I mean Hip hop.
You're listening to jazz.
You're listening to classical,you're listening to drum and
bass.
You're listening to you knowwhat I mean A whole bunch of

(57:52):
different genres, and thatshapes how you hear music and
then how you create music aswell.
Right?

Speaker 2 (58:00):
Yeah, definitely, and you know, the deeper I get in
as I get into my beatmakingjourney, when I'm digging, and
I'm really digging, I'm alsolooking for, like the most
obscure countries I can think of, to find their version of disco
or psych rock.
Or you know, popular musicbetween years of 65 and you know
83, where you got like Armeniandisco right.

(58:24):
Or you know Turkish psychedelicrock like shout out Erkan Koray
right.
Or Persian pop music in the 70sis amazing, shout out Gugus and
Haida before her right, whichis really dope because it
creates this circle where I'mlooking for that and then in
turn and I'm learning aboutother cultures through doing it.
But then it also allows me toengage people Like I can't tell

(58:46):
you how many Persian, likeIranian folks, persian folks
I've met who I'll drop like aGugus reference, and be, like,
how do you know about Gugus?
I was like, oh, what you knowabout Delcache and vegan?
And then it creates this reallybeautiful connection where I
think people feel seen and heardand it opens up a whole another
world, and so it's really it'sa feedback cycle in a loop and I

(59:07):
was fortunate enough to travela lot and I was getting to like
I got really deep into Frenchhip hop in high school and so I
knew about that.
When I went to France I waslike going record shopping and
you know I was like I'm going toget up cutty French, like
Italian records.
You know I was traveling toBosnia and getting you know
Bosnia and Croatian hip hop andolder records as well to sample
and being really so.

(59:28):
I think it's a beautiful way andagain, I think this is so many
people's stories that I've heardabout.
You know how they got.
They fell in love with hip hop,fell in love with music from
around the world.
Like you're saying world, and Ithink world music is kind of
like a colonial kind of termit's, but like music from all
around the globe, differentcultures and countries can
really connect you and expandyour mind and teach you to

(59:51):
listen to music differently.
So I had that from, like myparents, val, you know, valuing
music, but also my valuing musicin my own way and growing into
that and through the lens of hiphop and beat making and digging
and collecting records.
So, yeah, that was really,really dope.

Speaker 1 (01:00:09):
Yeah, would you.
Would you say that your mostimpactful moments in your music
journey were?
Was that middle school, highschool, college?

Speaker 2 (01:00:23):
Yeah, I think so I mean again, like you know, like
you were saying like if you hadhad beat making, if you had
someone rock up to your spot atlike a foster placement or
whatever with an MPC and satdown with you for like an hour
or two hours one time, or mayberepeatedly, like how you know,

(01:00:48):
how would that have changed yourtrajectory versus where you are
now, which is a beautiful placeright Through all your you know
, whatever your journey and yourchallenge is, whatever along
the way, that brought you hereright.
So I don't know, but, like youknow, sitting under the piano is
important.
Just digging for music in HMVin New York City at the time of

(01:01:08):
the in New York City at you know, going to the hip hop section
every another genre too in HMV,that was an important part.
Going away to college, that wasa major, important part.
Meaning other hip hop heads andactively seeking that and
knowing.
I went to B-Boy Summit in 99with my home girl who lived down
in LA and she was a hip hophead too.
I met her in Croatia the yearbefore we went to B-Boy Summit

(01:01:29):
and saw like some of the dopest,like breaking, popping, locking
battles right, and I'm beingexposed to super underground LA
hip hop culture and graphculture and like boutique
clothing labels and simultaneouslike just like living it,
breathing it, and then takingthe New York and bringing it to
California and you know whatever.

(01:01:49):
So there's all these differentmoments that it's hard to say.
You know, it's kind of multiplestreams of input, you know that
all but they're all importantstages in the development, and I
think listening to oldies as anine year old and opening my
world up to music that myparents weren't exposing me to
as well was important too, youknow.

Speaker 1 (01:02:07):
Yeah, I feel the same way, man, like when, when moms
and you know the guests haveheard me say this, you know the
internets have heard me say thisa thousand times.
But you know moms playing, youknow the vinyl records, man, I'm
seeing her take them out thecases, you know, place it inside
of the, because we had thecover we had to lift up.

(01:02:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you better,you better close the top.
You don't close the top.

Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
Yeah, you better protect that vinyl.

Speaker 1 (01:02:38):
Protect the vinyl Exactly.
So we listen, I know exactlywhat you're talking about.

Speaker 2 (01:02:41):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:02:42):
Listen to all of that .
And then you know, listen intothe, you know Patty LaBelle's
and the Smokey Robinsons and youknow all that.
And then just going up and downthe street and people were
playing their music like loudand there was no, like hey, you
better turn that down.
Like there's a noise ordinance,another you know it wasn't

(01:03:03):
under that shit.

Speaker 2 (01:03:04):
Like it was play your music.

Speaker 1 (01:03:06):
Yeah, I was in Jersey man, camden man, so yeah, Okay,
yeah.
Right over there, right over toBen Franklin bridge from Philly
man, so um, or the wall Whitman, or the Takoli by Mara, yeah,
yeah so yeah we, we all over man.

(01:03:26):
So, yeah, I think that was superinteresting, I think that was
super influential.
Um, that's, that's anotherreason why I asked that too.
Um, let me, let me ask you thisquestion the, the, the value of
that music.
Right, cause I heard you say,um, which your pops value in the
music, value in the records.

(01:03:47):
Um, do you feel the same wayabout the music that you hear
now, like you know, the musicthat you buy, that you purchase?
Do you feel, do you place asense of value in that music?

Speaker 2 (01:04:06):
I think, because we're so overwhelmed with
choices and you know, thingsthat we can buy and consume,
because there's so much morebeing produced, it can make it
potentially less like, lessvaluable.
I don't want to say lesssustainable, but you listen to
something unless you really likeit, perhaps less than you did

(01:04:26):
back in the day, and you're lessinvested in it.
That being the case, like youknow, I was bumping like Richie
Cunning, who I think was one ofmy favorite current MCs and he
also makes all his own beats.
He's one of my favoriteproducers too, from San
Francisco.
He put out a record called bigdeal.
That was amazing.
Now I was bumping for severalmonths.
I got the t-shirt I was wearingthe t-shirt the other day and
and I choose actively to supportindependent artists local and

(01:04:49):
otherwise independent artistswho are in my scene, in our
scene or whatever I still buyvinyl with the intent of DJing
it and collecting it and gettingthe free digital download, and
I stream and I also like it'sbecause I make my own music and
I'm involved in a community andI see that I also share it
actively.
But I don't.
I don't think that I or manyother people listen to music in

(01:05:11):
the same way that we did beforeSpotify before, how accessible
it is.
It was so much more valuable.
I used to listen to mixes overand over.
I used to like, even even inthe early digital age, like I
had a KALX crazy likeunderground hip hop breakbeat
mix that I used to listen to.

(01:05:31):
That was like a 56 KMP3 or youknow, 82 KMP3, which is super
lo-fi again and again with likethis dope, like far side mashup
and crazy like and I knew it byheart and I didn't care that it
was lo-fi and I was listening toit again and again Because like
the value of how it was done.

(01:05:52):
But nowadays, even ifsomething's really well done
unless I have it at the top ofmy like songs or I'm really
intentionally thinking about itor whatever you can get lost or
lose those songs because we haveso much constant music coming
out and social media wereflooded with so much content.
So I think it's changed it.
But I do still buy vinyl, I buytapes, artists that I like and

(01:06:16):
then I want to support and Iplay certain songs or beats on
repeat again and again and againand again, and I'll listen to
beat tapes.
Or I'll listen to beats likethis dude from Poland.
I would listen to his beats,his MPC 2000 or 2000 XL S950

(01:06:38):
beats.
I ended up meeting him becauseI went to Poland with the US
State Department doing this hiphop diplomacy thing I did last
year.
I went to his city and Iinvited him into my beatmaking
academy that I helped run forlike a week in the city and it
was incredible that I got tomeet this guy whose beats I
would listen to, study andliterally emulate Like low hey,

(01:07:02):
what's up?
Low-end theory beats.
Shout out to low-end theory anddaughters.
I hope you're learning aboutlow-end theory.

Speaker 1 (01:07:14):
Yeah, she'd be riding with daddy, so she'd be
listening.

Speaker 2 (01:07:16):
Yeah, she's getting exposed.
Oh yeah, you remember when Iused to ride with dad in the
start?

Speaker 1 (01:07:20):
You play all those damn beat tapes, dad, you're
gonna remember it Great.

Speaker 2 (01:07:25):
Let's do something else.

Speaker 1 (01:07:27):
Hey, can I ask her?

Speaker 2 (01:07:27):
do you like listening to the music that your dad
plays, or would you put ondifferent stuff?

Speaker 1 (01:07:33):
He said do you like listening to music your dad
plays or do you like listeningto different stuff?
Listening to music your dadplays.
Listening to music I play Nice.

Speaker 2 (01:07:44):
Tell her, dad's got good taste in it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:47):
He said I got good taste, you agree?
That's what's up.

Speaker 2 (01:07:51):
That's fine.
Does she make beats too?

Speaker 1 (01:07:55):
She'd be trying.
She'd be trying, right, she hasan iPad where she has Garage
Band in it and I'm about todownload Koala.
She can start with that.
And then I have a padcontroller.
So I have a pad controller thatshe can touch physical touch

(01:08:16):
and everything like that buthe'd be into different stuff.
When she get an itch she'll goin and be like, hey, I want to
make music, type of thing.

Speaker 2 (01:08:25):
That's fire.

Speaker 1 (01:08:26):
Lately she ain't been making no music here.
It's gotta come from the heart,she might make some beats over
the Christmas Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:08:36):
Christmas.

Speaker 1 (01:08:37):
V-tape.
Ask Mommy for some jelly beans.
You don't know that.
You said it, you gave me them.
I said yes.
But now I asked Mommy, tell her.
Daddy said yes, I'm doing aninterview.
Man, come on, can I just grab abowl and put them in a bowl?
No, go, ask Mommy for it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:55):
Ask for jelly beans and enjoy them.
Why do you, ask Mom?

Speaker 1 (01:08:59):
You try to get me in trouble.
Yeah, I'm a sucker.
I'm a sucker, I go ahead.

Speaker 2 (01:09:09):
That's a good dad.
She be hit me with the eyes.

Speaker 1 (01:09:14):
I'm like I know, but yeah, okay, sorry about that man
, but um, um, um man, I lost the.
I lost my next question, butI'm going to be too.
Yeah, but okay.
I'm going to be too, yeah, butokay, all right.
So here's, here's my segue tomy next question, which is um,

(01:09:37):
with your wealth of, you know,music learning and music
creation and um, event curatingand things like that, man, so,
and we have some mutants, youknow, I mean some beat mutants
that are like on their ownjourney, and music creation, um,
yeah, yeah, I think that wouldbe something that you would
recommend that they either watch, listen to or read.

(01:10:02):
And then, I think cryptic onesaid uh, he said something else
he had, he added a fourth one.
Yeah, he added a fourth one.

Speaker 2 (01:10:11):
I haven't seen the interview, I'm just guessing he
said Dilla time.

Speaker 1 (01:10:14):
Yeah, he said.
He said uh, read, watch, listento, um, uh, man, I can't
remember it right now, but hey,yeah, any three of those, like
what would you recommend thatthey?
They listen to, listen to, reador watch?

Speaker 2 (01:10:34):
Um, I would say there's several films about beat
making and sampling that Ithink are really essential, kind
of classic.
Uh, there's one called samplethis which is about um, it's
about Apache and birth a hip hop, but it's also about sampling
and um, I just it's not too long, it's great we show the kids

(01:10:55):
when we teach it.
Today's feature sound as a wayfor them to understand sampling
and the birth of hip hop whereit came from, the Bronx, the
framework, uh, the context Also,if you haven't seen the movie
scratch by Doug Prey is classic,it's amazing, it's super dope,
um and uh, that will let youknow about, like future
primitive and a lot of the SanFrancisco Bay area, turntables

(01:11:16):
and stuff I was talking about inLA and New York as well.
You know the X men becameexecutioners, um, also copyright
criminals.
About sampling and I mean again, it's older but it's still
similar kind of interestingissues and it is about beat
making, um, and turntable is inhip hop.

(01:11:37):
Um, hip hop evolution,obviously, at the different sub
genres of hip hop and the kindof chronology of hip hop and
different sub genres, regionalstyles, uh, things around the
country and around the world.
Uh, I would also say like onthe today's feature sound
YouTube channel.
We have 112 episodes of theglobal beat cipher with some of

(01:12:00):
the dopest sample flip beatbattles you've ever seen.
We were doing it live, startingin COVID before anyone else was
doing the sample flip.
Uh, you know beat ciphers likewe started it and you know it
and kept going for 110, 109weeks straight.
We have 112 episodes total.
We got some of the best beatmakers in the world flipping

(01:12:20):
samples, going head to head,flipping the same samples, multi
round beat battles.
Also on my YouTube channel, thePhilip Drummond YouTube channel,
there's a lot of old schoolbeat battles footage that I put
on and beat ciphers and beatshowcases that I put up.
I started a monthly beat battlethat I did for 13 years
straight, starting in 2006, themonth after donuts and came out

(01:12:42):
and after Dilla past.
We did a beat battle startingthen and did a monthly in San
Francisco and Oakland, butmostly in San Francisco for 13
years and I did.
I've been doing monthlyessentially doing monthly beat
battles, beat showcases and beatciphers since 2006.
And there's a lot of footage onthe today's features sound I

(01:13:03):
would say mainly YouTube, butthat we also have on the
SoundCloud.
Today's feature soundSoundCloud is SoundCloudcom
slash, today's feature sound andtoday's feature
soundbandcampcom.
We have the beat tapes fromthose.
Now there's footage thatthere's only two, three, maybe
four clips released from this.

(01:13:24):
But back in 2013 or 10, tryingto remember lush one and I did a
two day event.
He did the rap battles but Idid two days of beat battles and
we're talking one on one threeround sample flip beat battles
DBA C versus poetic in fourrounds, with lithium by Nirvana
being the the bonus you knowover time that I knew was going

(01:13:45):
to happen.
Dba C versus Jeffrey, andJeffrey is the one who, like
exposed soldier boy using the,the garage band.
You know stock samples forcrank, that or whatever the hit
was.
So great beat maker, great dude.
I had them.
We also did.
One thing I asked to do was carstereo beat battles, right, so
we did it outside, throughpeople's car stereos.

(01:14:06):
So I have like DBA C versusJeffrey.
I have some other ones Nestle,who's known as a as to be one of
the best battle rappers in theSoutheast and, I think, around
in general, is also equallytalented at making beats and
producing and making musicBattle.
Chase Moore and if you, if youknow, you know the fresh coast
scene or lush one or face more,is an incredibly talented beat

(01:14:29):
maker, also very talented MC,who used to battle too, but like
Chase Moore versus Nestle thatthat footage is on the internet
Solo eternity versus my boy,campbell.
Campbell now, you know,produces for Doja cat and has I
don't know 53 million orbillions, whatever it is streams
like on his Spotify.
That's a me who is also battleDBA C and the iron chef sample

(01:14:50):
for beat battle we did withLewis Den based out of I think
they're out of Birmingham,england.
We shared the samples right.
We did a kind of collaborativesample flip beat beat battle
back in 2006 or 2007.
That footage is up with DBA Cand Campbell and other producers
.
Checks max Watch the Red Bullbeat battles from back in the

(01:15:14):
day.
That shit was fire.
I was in a couple of them.
I never made it past the firstround but you know that was in
the hyphy days when boom bap, Ithink, was not going to advance
you and whatever man I got tomeet, vitamin D I helped you
know vitamin D and Jake one forthree years in a row to kind of
you know.
Come up with a roster of peoplewho participated in the Bay
Area beat battles.
My little homie, campbell, wonthree years in a row and beat

(01:15:39):
Marco Polo in the finals of thenationals and took second place,
like there's, and there's somany talented beat makers in
that that I discovered and inthe beat battles I've done over
the years we had DJ Dahi was inour beat battles in San
Francisco who works with Khaliland Dre and all of them down in
down in LA incredibly nice guy.
You know DBA obviously used totake the bus up from LA and make

(01:16:03):
beats on the 404 on the bus andcome win the battles.
It was crazy.
There's beat tapes on our bankthat you can download, including
that LA.
We did LA versus the Bay.
That DBA poetic that was 27 oneon one sample for beat battles
over two days.
Trucks who produce his breakoutwith 50 cent is a big name in
production battle, hisdoppelganger and you know I have

(01:16:26):
tracks on there on the on thefree beat tape, the LA versus
the Bay beat tape.
So yeah, there's a lot therethat I would point to in terms
of on the today's feature soundsocial media channels and bank
camp and SoundCloud on myYouTube.
I think just watching beatbattles beat ciphers from around
the globe is really inspiringand there's a lot of content on

(01:16:47):
Instagram that I think is reallydope.
And we stream.
We do live streams of all ourbeat ciphers on Instagram For
today's feature, sound and beatcipher.
Oh, okay, like the Oaklandbased beat ciphers that we did
some down in LA recently, beatcipher hashtag, beat cipher SP
with organic beat sessions,maddie J the home is down there

(01:17:09):
and wherever I go in the world Itried to do beat ciphers and
beat battles.
So I've done beat ciphers andbeat battles on six continents.
I got a plan for how to getdown to Antarctica and try to do
a Antarctic beat battle, beatcipher, through the Chilean
national research team.
So look for that in 2026 or 27.
That's bucket list.
Well, I've done.
I've done beat battles on allseven continents and you know

(01:17:32):
there's there's a lot of stuffon the Instagram is what I'm
saying and other resource.
I mean there's so much outthere like cryptic one, crypt
uno is amazing.
Toru has a producer headpodcast fire and has cryptic was
on there recently.
You know Toru is doing greatstuff.
Medic the home in New York,who's another you know, tfs kind

(01:17:55):
of family member and volunteersand teachers with us.
I think he still has it or hada music production podcast.
That was super dope.
There's.
There's so much out there interms of resources and, yeah,
I've got whatever is part of thebeat scene.
Flip a beat Club is alwaysdoing stuff all over the country
doing amazing beat ciphers andbeat showcases and they do live
streams.

(01:18:15):
I think their talent is deepshout out, acclimated assassin
that runs the Austin chapter ofthat and then other other beat
platforms.
That was the other thing we tryto do with global beat ciphers
always have on differentplatforms of beat ciphers and
beat beat platforms.
So if you go back and watchthose episodes, there's got in

(01:18:36):
depth interviews with Douginfinite about Chicago under an
hip hop about you know no ID andKanye back in the day like
being 13 and in Doug studio inChicago with his ASR 10, you
know, sitting in the corner.
There's a lot of history thereand a lot of underground nerdy
details, buck wild talking aboutDTC.
So all of that and more.

(01:18:58):
There's just you know so much,so much great stuff out there
nowadays.

Speaker 1 (01:19:06):
Oh, oh.
I got a plan to ask you aboutwhat's that book, what's the
book that you?

Speaker 2 (01:19:09):
know right there, music, music conclusion for
healing in schools and beyond.
So I have I think this is myfirst book chapter, maybe second
book chapter with mycollaborators Dr Alexander crook
.
Dr Rafael Travis was one of thepublishers of this.
I was the guy you met at TexasState who started the create lab
.
There has been an essentialpart of our publishing peer

(01:19:32):
reviewed journal articles,scientific articles on the
impact of therapeutic beatmaking.
Therapeutic beat making is mylike life's work, using beat
making as a therapeutic andeducational intervention
modality.
That's what we do at today'sfeature sound, my nonprofit.
We work in elementary, middleand high schools, juvenile
detention settings, communitysettings and the beat ciphers

(01:19:53):
that we do in the community likethat you're at, I believe, our
therapeutic and useful and prosocial for adults.
We talk about everything thatwe do at today's feature sound.
We even have this is the firsttime we've actually published in
an academic journal or bookarticle the beat tape covers,
because that's a big part ofwhat we do with kids is help

(01:20:14):
them.
This is like a beat tape cover,right, this is I don't know if
you can see it, but and we havethat that all the kids get to
design, conceptualize their owncovers and so we published that
because that's an important partof the therapeutic process that
kids actually be able to makelike really official, like dope
beat tapes that sound good, thathave dope custom artwork they

(01:20:35):
designed we go through.
The chapter is about what'scalled it's.
It's dope, it's called globalinclusion and healing through
therapeutic beat making and itsays this chapter offers a
narrative journey through themission of one hip hop nonprofit
today's feature sound to offeropportunities for individual and
community healing through artsand culture.

(01:20:55):
Unique to this journey is howdifferent levels of community
have been integrated into acohesive vision to foster a
healthy, connected globalsociety.
So we're talking about all theworkshops that we do across the
world with kids, with adultsbeat making workshops, beat
ciphers, the global beat cipher,which was the you know the
online thing, and we also havedone events in life to gather

(01:21:18):
community members.
We had DJ docile flew fromChile to New York City for a
three day event that we did togather everyone to.
It was called together for thefirst time three day event, new
York City, getting all thehomies together from all over
the country in New York.
We did that in Cali.
People flew from all over theUnited States and
internationally to San Franciscoand Oakland.

(01:21:39):
So yeah, I would encourage youto grab a copy of this.
There's a coupon code for itthat I'll see if I can, I can
dig up, but it's 30% off.
But it's a really dope bookthat looks at hip hop and
electronic music and so calledurban music and how it's been
used for healing, education,inclusion, therapeutic,

(01:22:02):
educational, personal.
You know applications and usesacross the globe.
And yeah, I would also say DrRafael Travis is seminal book
and I'm biased because today'swhich is mentioned in it.
But the healing power of hip hop.
If you want to understand in areally nuanced, explicit way how

(01:22:23):
hip hop is educational, howit's therapeutic, how it's
empowering, it goes from nopreventative stuff all the way
into working with people who'veexposed, exposed to trauma or,
you know, need you know, therapyor whatever in a multitude of
different ways of therapeuticbeat making, hip hop therapy.
It's an incredible book.
I think any hip hop head shouldread that.

(01:22:44):
The healing power of hip hop byDr Rafael Travis absolutely
worth.
It explains everything indetail and it gives a lot of
arguments, especially to likethe arguments that people make
about hip hop being likenegative or, you know, sex is
objectifying, women being moneycentric, all these kind of like
you know, I think, very onedimensional and not very

(01:23:07):
thoughtful arguments that misskind of the point of hip hop and
and the larger kind ofconversations he addresses that
to in a really smart anddetailed way.
It's just is an incredible book.
The healing power hip hop socaught.
That beat tips manual isanother classic one.
Dilla time, obviously, yeah,and man, there's, there's so

(01:23:36):
much, there's so much out there,there's so many resources.

Speaker 1 (01:23:39):
Yeah, there's a lot.
Where can?
Where can?
The Internet?
Well, and I'm gonna get thelink for this too.
So when I put it in thedescription to show like a good
portion of everything that youknow filthy is talking about me
and Dr filthy is talking about,I'm gonna put it in the
description.
So I gotta do is click the link, boom and it take you right to

(01:24:00):
it.
Whether it's in podcast form orit's on YouTube, you'll still
be able to see what he's talkingabout.
Support what he's talking aboutright, because that that book,
because I was, I was noticingthat the whole show.
So I was like, you know, Ican't wait to get to this.

Speaker 2 (01:24:17):
This one yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:24:19):
Yeah, so.

Speaker 2 (01:24:20):
I live on the push.

Speaker 1 (01:24:22):
Yeah, on the push man .
So, um, my next question,because I gotta talk to you
about your music, right?
You know you do a lot withtoday's future sound.
You do a lot with the globalbeat cypher, which is bringing a
whole bunch of like kids, isbringing adults together.

(01:24:43):
I mean so community is what Isee you as, like your community
minded person.
You know, I mean so.
Yeah your music.
You've been putting out, you'vebeen creating music for a while
, you've been putting out musicfor a while, but then you
recently did something that Ithink only one other person has
been a guest on this show Um hasdone, which is one beat a day

(01:25:08):
for 365 days.
Right, and you completed thatchallenge.
So can we start off like how,why did you even decide to do a
that challenge and what was theemotional?
Um, they're like total rollercoaster that you went through
trying to complete the challenge.

Speaker 2 (01:25:28):
Yeah, it's a good, good way to phrase it.
I'm on day like 389 or 390 now.
But, um, the person who reallyinspired me to do that there's
two people, but the Bain one isDJ prominent, who's a really
good friend of mine, who did the365 a few years ago and is one
of my best friends and you justtalk for hours about plugins on
the phone and you know stufflike that.
Um, and seeing hit and hearingabout his inspired me.

(01:25:51):
But it started with a 30 daychallenge in Australia, not this
past August, but the Augustbefore, and I decided I was
going to do a 30 day challenge.
And also the other person Iknow who did it is the homie in
Wales oh God, his names escapeme Bryn Morgan, who's really
amazing beat maker to play hisinstruments.
Met in England.
We did a beat cypher.

(01:26:12):
So those guys inspired me.
But I figured I would start witha 30 day one and I completed 30
days and said, well, I'm gonnago for 100.
And then I said, well, 100, I'mgonna go for 365, like I might
as well.
This is keeping me accountable,it's leading to a lot of
collaborations, it's making memore prolific than ever.
It's akin to what I was doingwith the global beat cypher,

(01:26:32):
where I would make you know 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 beats a week for each
cypher, each week.
It was kind of continuing thatflow which led to some of the
best output and increase insample flipping capacity and
ability.
But, man, it was so hard.
It was so difficult, Isacrificed so much sleep and
time and it really affected alot of other parts of my life.

(01:26:54):
But I'm proud that I did it andit was a big achievement.
But it's brutal when you'redoing it for social media, for
Instagram, and I posted on myYouTube channel and my Facebook
as well and while I had TikTok,I was posting it there as well,
cause, like making a video foreach beat is like twice to eight
times as much work.

(01:27:15):
I would stay up after I made mybeat, like hours and hours
editing the video, but makingthe video for Instagram.
So I learned a lot aboutediting video shooting video,
you know, in the process andmaking beats, collaborating with
people, using my plugins, usingdrum sounds, doing you know
that I maybe lived on my harddrive I didn't use before,

(01:27:38):
tapping into differenttechniques, learning more about
music technique and music theory.
So pushing my snare drums earlyinstead of instead of late, to
get that Dilla feel I was alwaysa late snare drum guy if I was
going to swing it, you know.
But I did that for the firsttime, doing stuff I normally
wouldn't do, using plugins Iwouldn't use and putting all the
damn plugins to use, you know,and it was.

(01:28:00):
It's like working out, you knowif you do your pushups every day
or you work out every day, youdo your stretches, you fall into
a habit of being that and itcan feel like you're missing
something or it doesn't feelright if you haven't done it.
And that was a good brainexercise and body exercise and,
you know, intellectual, musicalexercise and it led to doing a

(01:28:20):
lot of cool stuff that Iwouldn't have done otherwise and
having a routine.
And you know, look, my dadpassed fewer, several months ago
now, but like I even, I evendid it through his passing,
through the time that he wassick, you know, in the hospital
with cancer and and after, and Ithink that was an important
part of maintaining a routineand a kind of a momentum and
inertia and a structure formyself as a beat maker and also

(01:28:45):
to demonstrate like I beatmaking, nonprofit, therapeutic
beat making.
I'm a practitioner of hip hopand a beat making and I really
want to be about it and I'm notjust a psychologist, just an
executive director, like I live,what I believe in and what I,
what I talk about.
So that's with the beat ciphersto, and I'm really, really

(01:29:05):
about it and I really want to beable to flex and be skilled and
when I teach.
I want to come from a place ofskill and knowledge and still
and learn as well and be anongoing.
You know, being a student, so Ithink it was all those things
and wanting to have a better, abetter output.
I still need to put out a beattape.
Three years later, you know I'mabout to put out a beat tape.

(01:29:29):
So I have a project with DJambush aka, and Bada is a really
dope DJ beat maker, mc I know,also super humble dude, and we
went to Australia together backin 2019 and he came on tour with

(01:29:52):
me and we did shows togetherand we hung out, we kicked it
and you know he was.
That was when the firstiteration of Serato studio came
out.
He made it one of the beat thathe produced on that on our
record, which is it's calledElinger is our group he made in
the living room of my homiesplace in Sydney while I was
making another beat.
That would become the firsttrack that we did together.
But that's a rap album, right,but, and it's got crazy

(01:30:16):
collaborations on beats likewith Vo or Voo, however you want
to call him and a lot of otherreally talented beat makers, but
the record we're putting outleading into that.
That's kind of like the prequelis an instrumental record from
Elinger that's curated by him.
I made all the beats on it buthe's chosen it and curated and
ordered it and so that's likethe Elinger beat tape.

(01:30:37):
So I'm about to drop that.
And then I got a rap record, youknow the, the Elinger album
that he wraps on and did this,all the cuts on and we have some
crazy collaborations.
And then, you know, I got otherstuff coming out, like I got a
record with Defi or Defi, who'sa really amazing MC from from
Santa Fe and not well around helives in Santa Fe now, but from

(01:31:00):
New Mexico.
That's one of my other bestproduced records I've ever made.
I got but I'm sitting on thesebeat tapes but all these things
especially the record with Defiand the beat tape came and the
other record a lot of them cameout of the, both the global beat
cypher that I did with theyears and the 365 challenge, and
now I can share these beatsleading to a lot of other

(01:31:21):
projects, and so it's being ableto use these beats that I've
made, especially the better ones, for projects and maybe for
beat tapes, and it really Ithink it helped me and it's also
helped me to lead into puttingout my music more.
So I've collaborated with, likebest Paul and I.
He's another homie from theglobal beat cypher, from the TFS
community are you to drop to asingle this morning, a low five

(01:31:45):
boom bap single called next tonothing, and I've been putting
out records with him, singleswith him on, you know, hit here
or myself solo, on a monthlybasis, most of which have come
from the 365, and some of thoseare collaborate with
collaborative beats,collaborations.
Some of them are just solo beats.
That I did.
But that's also led to, I think, as an artist, being able to

(01:32:08):
put out my work and I, you knowyou're putting it out when
you're putting on on Instagramtoo, but it's not the same as
putting it on officially onstreaming platforms, like
whether Spotify or Apple music,or releasing it on on band camp
and that kind of stuff.
So it's that's also been anoutcome as well.
As you know increased skillsets, knowing more about music
and the accomplishment of it,which is really dope, and I feel

(01:32:30):
like that also kind of getsyour name out and people kind of
you know you can get some propsfor it too, you know first of
all, I know your pops would beproud, man.

Speaker 1 (01:32:43):
I know he is proud of you, man, for your words and
what he's doing.
Man, and we hear.
Man, we send our condolences toyou and your family.
I don't know how you pushthrough.
I don't know how I was seeingyou a few weeks ago, you know,
still doing your work, stilldoing what you're going to do,

(01:33:04):
man, like what I would have hadto take a step back and just you
know me, just take a little bitof a break, but you push
through, man.
How did you like, where didthat come from?
How did you do that?

Speaker 2 (01:33:18):
again, I think the structure of having that as an
outlet, as a therapeutic outlet,as an outlet to express myself,
was really important during hissickness.
I think having work and insteadof just getting stuck in, you
know, feeling overwhelmed orwhatever, can be really helpful.
And then you look, I mean Ithink there's also grieving, is

(01:33:40):
a process, right, and sometimesI can get really stuck in work,
or you know, the 365, or makingbeats like and that may even
take away from, like you know,the grieving that I need to do
so, as I think it's a balancebetween using it as a
therapeutic tool and using it asa way to structure my life and

(01:34:00):
also, you know to, to yet todistract me.
I think so.
It's.
It's it's multi-dimensional,it's complex, but I think it
helped.
It helped like I made a songcalled I don't know why, and I
literally sang on it because Ifelt like it and I felt like I

(01:34:20):
had to sing it, I had to justlike speak it.
You know, on a beat that I made, I sang on the beat and it was
about I don't know, I don't knowwhy, I don't know why my dad
got sick, I don't know why hehad to get sick and to die.
But that was me, from, you know, my heart, my soul, my body, my
, my pain, elaborating that formyself and for anyone else who

(01:34:42):
was listening and understood itor whatever and I think that's a
way that we communicate andshare that process and move
through it and that's why I'm areally big advocate for
therapeutic beat making what wedo it today's future sound and
and I believe strongly in itI've seen how it works for me.
I've seen it works for otherpeople.
I think making beats can be abeautiful, constructive outlet.

(01:35:04):
It can be like anything, likeyou could, you can also be.
It can have its negative impactto and taking away from, you
know, adult responsibilities,and it definitely interfered
with my sleep, you know, and hasinterfered, you know, probably
interrupted with my sleep andstuff, but it's also, I think,
overall been really positive.
So I think that was that wassomething.
And doing the the T beatsArgentina project, where we went
down to Argentina in the summer, was also a good thing.

(01:35:27):
Like after my just, you know, afew weeks after my dad passed,
I went down there didn't mean Iwasn't suffering it, and I think
it was a good thing to have apurpose and a mission and I
think this kind of thing givesme structure and a mission,
aside from and in addition towork related to it, but separate
from it.
In my own practice of makingmusic for myself as an artist

(01:35:50):
and I think the 365 both theglobal beats, I for doing the
weekly flips for three years andthen also even more so the 365
was me stepping into being anartist, saying you know what,
I'm not just going to put my Rside for my nonprofit, running
the nonprofit, running today'sfuture sound.
I'm going to engage in it andtreat it with the proper respect

(01:36:10):
and respect myself as an artistand put my art out there and
release it.
I don't want to sit on a harddrive or whatever.
I think that's important partof you know, related to the
nonprofit, but separate from itas well man, super, super strong
, brah brah, super strong man.

Speaker 1 (01:36:28):
And there's, there's been, a few other guys that have
gone through similar losses aswell, man, and I asked them you
know how they persevere to dothat and and once again,
internet's man, there's no timetable for healing.
You know, and process theseemotions.
You know, because you know somepeople will be like I already

(01:36:49):
happened, get over it type ofthing.
But that's not human beings,like that's not how it are, man.
Especially if they saidsomething to you, you're gonna,
you're gonna notice that they'remissing your body's gonna know
your subconscious, your mind isgoing to everything is going to
know man.
So process the emotions safelyand hopefully have a support

(01:37:12):
system, a good support systemthat can rally around you and
during those times because youknow, I mean, I'm still, I'm
still in denial.

Speaker 2 (01:37:24):
A lot of people are I spoke to, who had similar
losses, have said man, it takessix months a year to really like
to like I was in denial.
I'm still in denial, no, andand like I find myself like I'll
want to share something with mydad, you know, by send me a
text, or share something I'vedone, or music or whatever, or
just something funny.
I'll be, oh fuck, he's dead.
Like Dad, like that, you know,I'll get.

(01:37:46):
I'll get like the, themetaphorical gut punch every now
and then, um, or people willsay something, or I'll remember
something.
So I think it's, it's a process.
I think it's also aboutstepping into it, which I need
to do more of.
Um, cause I can definitely, youknow, stay mentally busy doing,
doing, doing, doing and thenyou know, but I, you know, it's
a journey.
I'm in my own therapy.
I've been in my own therapy for20 years, maybe 21 year, I try

(01:38:10):
to remember 20 years now, as of2024.
It's been one of the mostuseful things I've ever done in
my life, uh, as a therapistmyself, as a person, as you know
, whatever you know, we all gotour baggage.
I think that's useful.
I don't just think thattherapeutic beat making is going
to do it for me.
Um, but, yeah, having a supportsystem, but yeah, man beats has

(01:38:33):
been so important for me andthat's why I love to share it
with other folks.
That's why, you know, I wish Ihad this when I was a kid is
that's our slogan, cause, that'swhat we wish, that's what I
wished.
I'm really passionate aboutsharing that with other folks.
Um, and it's it's.
You know, it's what I, what Ineed to to make, to make life
even more meaningful and fun.

Speaker 1 (01:38:54):
Speaking of speaking of that, and these are my, like
last four or five questions,because I think you've got
things to do, but, um, and Ithank you for your time, you
know internet, right now, withtalking to a field, okay, uh, dr
Dan, um, ellie again, um, who'sdoing today's future sound?

(01:39:15):
Uh, nonprofit, but then alsoglobal beat cypher, you know.
So I want to talk to you aboutprofession, which is, um, uh,
not psychotherapy, but uh,therapy, right.
So, okay, as somebody that'sdoing therapy themselves has
been doing it for years we don'ttalk enough as a beat making

(01:39:39):
community, as a music community,we don't talk enough about it.
It just started coming up in,you know, the rappers where, if
our top MCs were starting totalk about it, right, with GZ,
with Nas, with Kendrick who elseKendrick, yeah, he made a whole
album.

Speaker 2 (01:39:59):
And the homie from Chicago.
What's the name?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and.

Speaker 1 (01:40:04):
Where's the Five Nights?
Butch started talking aboutCharlemagne, right?
So I mean as a community,that's you know living life, you
gotta live life, you gotta youknow life, responsibilities.
But then also you've got theother end of the spectrum, which
is you're doing, you know,you're creating, whether it be

(01:40:25):
art, whether it be music,whether it be writing books,
read books, and you know allthat type of stuff.
How important is therapy tohuman society?
What you say, that's a verygeneral, broad question.

Speaker 2 (01:40:42):
But yeah, I mean, look, I wish that everyone had a
therapist.
If they're willing to go, youhave to go on your own terms and
be ready to go.
But I think it's so useful andthe reason that having a
therapist and being in your owntherapy is different from
talking to friends, your partner, your siblings, whomever is

(01:41:05):
because it's designated acompletely different
relationship with a differentdynamic.
This is someone whose job it isto listen to you, who listens
closely and is professionallytrained to help you understand
yourself and learn aboutyourself.
For an hour every week Mostspouses, partners, if you're

(01:41:27):
lucky you can listen for five to15 minutes without phasing out
maybe, maybe more, but then theytake on some of your toxicity
and you can't be completelyhonest with them.
You can't say whatever you wantin total confidence, right?
The dynamic is completelydifferent when you know it's
totally confident and your jobis not to please that person,

(01:41:48):
not to Like.
You can be totally honest.
You can be honest about yourfaults, your shortcomings, your
wishes, your fantasies, yourgreatest fears in a way that I
don't really think you canhonestly do that or effectively
do that in the same way that youcan with anyone else in the
world, even a best friend whoknows you incredibly well.
You can't really be totallyhonest about being greedy, being

(01:42:12):
petty, being resentful andcontentious, being proud of
certain things that you're notsupposed to or not allowed to or
can't talk about with otherpeople in a completely different
way.
That person is a professional,trained to help to understand
the human mind and knows you,who doesn't have a secondary

(01:42:34):
relationship that changes thedynamics of the relationship,
and they're a trainedprofessional.
I, as a therapist, been going tomy therapist 20 years.
It's changed my life and itcontinues to change my life and
I continue to work on myself andall my shortcomings and baggage
and whatever, to try to be amore effective, honest,

(01:42:54):
healthier person.
And it's tough, it's along-term thing, but I think
it's worth it.
It'll pay you back in everydimension of your life if you
can engage in it, and I thinkthat as men, we're taught that
we're emotionally weak if weshare our feelings and speak
them and that we'll becriticized, shamed et cetera

(01:43:17):
that we're not supposed to.
If you hold that in as a man oras a person, you just end up
acting it out in otherdestructive and self-destructive
ways in your life in other ways, whether it be undermining
yourself, not allowing yourselfto succeed, taking it out on
your kids, on your partner, onyour friends, and bearing that
resentment and toxicity.

(01:43:40):
And you can take that intotherapy, talk about it, project
that onto your therapist, whothen have to deal with it and
who can get to know you in thatcapacity.
So I think it's a profoundlydifferent thing and it will have
effects not only on youmentally, emotionally, but I
think, the physical, because themind-body connection is so

(01:44:02):
closely tied together the stresslevel that we experience when
we're experiencing somethingthat's stressing us out, like
the metaphors that we use forheartache when we break up with
someone.
We literally feel that in ourheart and our body and there's
the drama of that loss.
And I think we need to processthese losses and process and

(01:44:24):
it's not to say you can't talkabout good stuff in therapy too.
I made sure that I had atherapist who had a sense of
humor so that we could laugh atshit, and he's taught me to
think about humility and beinghumble with myself, being able
to laugh at myself and laugh atmy own pettiness or whatever
right, and then being able tostep back and be like man.
You're doing that again.
You need to do that really.

(01:44:45):
So that's my plug for therapy.
And it may not be for everyoneor for everyone right off the
bat, but to have someone whowill actually listen to you and
if you're willing to learn aboutyour, because it's like it's
learning about yourself.
Meditating is one thing.
It can be incredibly useful andyou can come to accept it in a

(01:45:06):
non-judgmental way if you'redoing a certain kind of like
Buddhist or whatever meditation.
But I think it's very differentto be able to have your
unconscious reflected back toyou, and to be listened to is so
underrated.
To have reflected back to youwhat you're saying in a
dedicated way with someone who'sthere professionally to do that
is completely different from apartner or a friend and it is a

(01:45:27):
profound experience that canchange you Mentally, physically,
spiritually, if you're intothat.
I just couldn't speak highly ofit enough, and there's less and
less stigma around it as moreand more rappers, men, come out
and step into that and say I'min therapy and it helped me.
Charlemagne will tell youstraight up and tell everyone it

(01:45:48):
helped them, and so I can'tremember if it was like Little
Dirk or that other rapper, itmight have been Little Dirk.

Speaker 1 (01:45:54):
yeah, yeah, from.

Speaker 2 (01:45:56):
Chicago, when LA was talking about it.
So plug there.
If you want to make betterbeats, get in therapy.

Speaker 1 (01:46:08):
Yo, here's a part A to that question, because
there's going to be peoplelistening to me.
They're thinking about it.
I just want you to talk aboutsome prerequisites.
We're searching for a therapist.
What should we be looking forwhen we're searching for a

(01:46:29):
therapist?
So we can actually open up andlearn about ourselves, and
things like that.

Speaker 2 (01:46:38):
I have ambivalent feelings, very mixed feelings,
about the online therapy and Ido mind virtually.
I started in person with mytherapist, so I'm not saying
that virtual therapy is bad orwhatever, but I have some mixed
feelings about some of theservices that are being provided
through some of the onlinetherapy service providers.

(01:46:58):
But ultimately, look, I'm notsaying you couldn't get a good
therapist that you like there.
You totally could and it couldbe extremely helpful.
I think it's better help orsomething like that.
I'm just a little skeptical.
But the most important thingand this goes along with
understanding therapy, beatmaking and how it's affected the

(01:47:19):
most important thing for goodtherapeutic, the number one
predictor of positivetherapeutic outcome across all
therapies, all kinds oftherapies, theoretical
orientations, et cetera Is therelationship.
You have to find someone thatyou can relate to, that you can
have a relationship with, thatyou can trust building that

(01:47:41):
rapport.
So it may not be the first orsecond therapist that you come
across.
You might have to shop aroundfor therapists, you might, and
then look, there are going to besome people who maybe you're so
ambivalent about doing therapythat they're going to make it
impossible for any therapist tohelp them because they feel so
conflicted about it and that'sjust an issue they're going to
have to tackle themselves orwith a therapist.

(01:48:01):
But I think it's so importantto find someone that you like,
that you trust, that you feelcomfortable with, that you have
a relationship with, becauseeverything else is based on that
, and that's talking about thetherapeutic beat making model,
the development of therelationship through beat making
.
That, what we do with kids,that's the building of the
relationship.
There's something that'sculturally responsive, something

(01:48:23):
that's familiar.
So if you're of a certainethnicity, maybe you want a
therapist from the same ethnicbackground who maybe has had a
similar, not to say everyonefrom the same ethnicity has had
the same experience, becausethey haven't right, Depending on
if your first generation,second generation, whatever, or
whatever right.
It's not monolithic, but it canalso be important and maybe to

(01:48:50):
you it's important to havesomeone from the same religious
background who can understandsome of the quirks, the
religious quirks or strugglesyou're dealing with, or similar
ethnic background or similarsocioeconomic, I don't know.
So you might you interviewtherapists, you see who works
for you.
I mean, what is it?
Little Dirk was talking abouthow he had a like an upper
middle class white, young femaletherapist and that worked for

(01:49:12):
him Because it didn't maybe makehim as defensive or he felt he
could be emotionally vulnerablewith her.
So maybe it doesn't have to be,but it's whoever you feel
comfortable with, whoever youcan relate to, who works for you
.
I got you know, I have thiscollaborative of hip hop
therapists and trauma therapistswho are super dope, and my home

(01:49:32):
girl, brittany Williams.
You should follow her online, Ithink it's BC Williams or BCLW
Williams.
She's on TikTok and onInstagram, super hip hop
therapist and has a practicewith all POC, with all folks of
color, and she's someone that Iwould refer people to in a
heartbeat.
She's amazing and you know ifyou're in Philly and if you're a

(01:49:58):
person of color in the blackcommunity there and you don't
have a lot of money.
There is one of the dopesttrauma therapists and the dopest
people.
I know who's another friend andcollaborator and colleague.
It's called San Cofa HealingClinic and her name is Jackie
Williams and she is one of thedopest trauma therapists I've
ever met and does incrediblework, works in the local jail,

(01:50:19):
has come with us to Chile to dotherapeutic beatmaking down
there.
She's amazing.
San Cofa Healing Clinic, phillyamazing therapist and
supervises really talentedtherapists, mostly black
therapists and therapists ofcolor, so I'm happy to give
referrals and recommendations.
But yeah, it's really about that.
It's about finding some of youtrust, who you like, who you can

(01:50:40):
relate to, and just trying togo in with an open mind and
understanding that it's gonna bescary or anxiety-provoking, but
the more you can make yourselfvulnerable and be willing to
explore that and not judgeyourself but step back and
understand that's just you andhave self-compassion.
Like having self-compassion isthe essential part of healing

(01:51:03):
from trauma and healing andgrowth.
Being able to be and that kindof goes along with the humility
I was talking about like that Italk about with my therapist and
that he's talked about with meis being able to have a bit of
humility and step outsideyourself and kind of laugh at
yourself and be like ah, damn,oh, elliot, come on now.
We're like oh man, that again,okay, self-compassion, humility

(01:51:26):
related to humility, humor,right, but also being open to
working through things andunderstanding that we're gonna
keep on repeating theseself-destructive or undermining
or negative patterns in allaspects of our lives if we don't
address it, if we don't reallycome face to face with it enough
.
I got my own stuff too.
I'm not a perfect person.

(01:51:47):
I have relationships that needmending and healing and where
I've screwed up and I'm tryingto look at myself and trying to
do better.
And even your everydayinteractions work, personal,
social, your social circles likeI know I can be better and I'm
trying to be better and growing,and I think everyone else can,

(01:52:09):
and I know hella people intoday's Future Sound staff and
former staff who were all aboutthe same age, in our either late
30s or early 40s, and most ofus are in therapy.
The world's a crazy place.
It can be a wonderful place, butit can be a crazy, unforgiving
place, and therapy helps us tomake sense of the world and
ourselves and understand why wekeep on doing that thing or why

(01:52:31):
we get into situations wherepeople keep on doing, maybe
things to us.
We allow that to happen, andhow we can avoid that and how we
can be more.
I just think it's just gonnahelp you, in every realm of your
life, be more successful and wecan make excuses.
I can't afford it and you canafford it.
It's the best investment thatyou can make is in investing
yourself is like a cliche thatpeople say, and there's low

(01:52:54):
sliding scale therapies that youcan get at training
universities, even online stuff,et cetera.
I'm happy to help people lookfor resources and think about,
so I would just stronglyencourage everyone to do that
and to look after yourselves andbe open to learning about
yourself, cause, like that'sdope knowledge of self,

(01:53:15):
knowledge of culture, knowledgeof history as fifth element of
hip hop knowledge.
Knowledge of self, knowledge ofculture, right.
Don't talk about yourself whereyou come from.
I'm an Eastern European uppermiddle class white Jew and
that's part of my history.
I got to accept whatever shameI carry with that as well and
it's part of my identity andI've been able to step into that

(01:53:35):
and integrate that more and ownthat.
And I got to know my historyand there's plenty of trauma in
my family and I learned about it.
The more I learned about thatthat trauma and that
intergenerational trauma and I'mtrying to do what I can to you
know, relieve that and heal itand not perpetuate that in the
world.

Speaker 1 (01:53:55):
All about breaking the cycles, man, and taking care
of self.
You know, I think the pandemickind of spotlighted that for
more about.
You know, just taking care ofself is the best you can do for
others, Right?
Because if you add 50% andeverybody else is still trying

(01:54:19):
to pull from you guys.
It's only a little businessbefore you break and then who
knows what happens after thatman.
So thank you for talking aboutthat man.
That's definitely a major partof why I even started this
podcast.
It's just the different stories, but then there's also the

(01:54:40):
lessons, the jewels that you'vebeen dropping this whole time,
that we've been talking aboutinvaluable man, and they're
going to live on forever and thealiens go here and there and be
like damn damn, do I need to goto therapy?

Speaker 2 (01:54:53):
I hope so.
I hope the aliens go to therapy.
Look man, I'm Elliot and Elliothad ET right Phone home.

Speaker 1 (01:54:59):
Elliot yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:55:02):
ET was calling his people and calling his therapist
.
You know, with the big cell,yeah, man Yo.

Speaker 1 (01:55:11):
So part of this is why, I'm getting into our
instrumental section of theepisode, right, so you know, you
got your music.
You about to come up with thebeat tape soon, hopefully, yeah,
yeah, probably 2024.
And then, because you're a busyman, and then we got to talk

(01:55:32):
about this today's Future Soundteam, which is I think it's
16-year-old, 16-year-old.

Speaker 2 (01:55:39):
It really varies from time to time.
We got a lot of volunteers in alot of different places in New
York, in Texas, here inCalifornia, southern California,
australia, latin America, southAmerica, central America, so
you know.
But there's a core group of uswho are active in the Bay Area
teaching right now and otherchapters get activated when I go

(01:56:02):
to other places.
And then there's other programsthat we've launched, like we
just launched a program with theToday's Future Sound workshop
in Atlanta, georgia, at K-PACEElementary and I brought in, you
know, john Robinson, a littleside from Science of Life, and
his brother in visible hands,both incredible beat makers and
hip hop educators.
Especially John has been doingit with Jay Rawls from Loom

(01:56:25):
Catalyst right, who's a doctorof education.
Now we had Nestle there, abunch of other people like
really dope beat makers fromAtlanta.
But then, you know, go to NewYork and I work with Dr Mistolo
from the Global Beat Scythe forCommunity and Today's Future
Sound family Cryptic One hascame and taught with us a couple
of weekends ago in Brooklyn.
So we've really, you know,we've got a lot of family but

(01:56:47):
you got like really activepeople that you'll see like in
our videos.
Annual fundraiser video forToday's Future Sound, your
annual fundraiser video, lacksthe Monk who's teaching finger
drumming in multiple differentelementary, middle and high
school classrooms in twodifferent juvenile detention
centers.
Juvenile Hall is here in the BayArea Doing incredible work as
an amazing finger drummer, beatmaker, engineer, great guy,

(01:57:09):
great performer.
You know you got like the Egon,egon Brain Parts from formerly
of Bossasaurus, who's alsoteaching in the Juvenile Hall
and our other programs, who'sstudying to become a therapist
as well.
And you know, like otheramazing instructors, cosmic, who

(01:57:30):
works in our elementary andmiddle school programs as well.
You know we got a lot of reallydope staff, like Best Hall is
kind of like one of our techpeople that supports us in terms
of testing plugins that we getdonated, showing us how to use
it.
Dj Prominent supports on thatend too.
So we got a lot of folks and alot of volunteers, you know, and

(01:57:51):
we're in the schools we're inthe juvenile detention and
community settings, doingtherapeutic beat making, doing
educational.
You know beat making, hip hop,education, hip hop therapy.
And you know, if people want tosee that, they can go on our
Instagram, they can go on ourYouTube check out the year end
annual fundraiser video.
Yeah, and you know, check outthe beat tapes on our Bandcamp

(01:58:16):
the Todays Future Sound,bandcampcom, soundcloudcom
Todays Future Sound.
So you can peep that out andthat's there it has a resource.

Speaker 1 (01:58:27):
So we want to say at the Racial Podcast, thank you to
every single one of your teammembers that gives their time
you know what I mean giveseffort, gives energy to this
program.
Man, to the nonprofits andeverything that they're doing.
Man, because, man, they are allthe real heroes.
Man, they are all the realheroes, like I know, I get it.

(01:58:49):
There's, you know, people doingsome amazing physical feats and
sports and entertainment andstuff like that.
But this is what y'all aredoing, is what we needed at man,
like man.
Man, we got to talk about, Igot to talk about this, we got
to talk about the fundraiserthat's going on right now, man.
So your fundraising, I think itstarted two days ago, was it

(01:59:15):
two days ago?

Speaker 2 (01:59:15):
Yeah, it started on Giving Tuesday.
We launch it each year on.
Giving Tuesday even though it'sgetting like earlier and earlier
and earlier that people areasking for money and doing these
Cyber Monday, black Fridaysales.
But Giving Tuesday is theanswer to like the rapid
consumerism that we deal with.
Engage in on Black Friday andCyber Monday right, bye, bye,

(01:59:37):
bye.
And instead says, on GivingTuesday, instead donate to a
pro-social cause, to a nonprofitorganization, to nonprofits
that are doing something goodfor the world with, and instead
of like just investing in morecrap that we don't need or, you
know, maybe, maybe we feel thatwe need don't actually need or
whatever give money to a causethat has a positive impact on

(01:59:59):
the world.
So we launched our campaign, wedropped our video and if folks
want to donate, they can go totoday's future sound dot o r g
or to the short link b I t, bitdot lee.
Y'all know the short links bitdot lee.
So it's bit dot lee slash andit's all capitals T F S, as in

(02:00:22):
today's future sound T F S AFfor annual fundraiser 24.
So all caps t, bit dot leeslash, t F S, af, 24.
Or just go to today's futuresound dot o r g.
If you go to the today's futuresound Instagram profile or our
Twitter profile at on Twitterit's at T F S underscore beats

(02:00:46):
it's in the it's in you know thebio link.
We can link it up.
You go to our Instagram or ourYouTube or our Facebook.
You get the links and you canalso watch the videos and see
pictures of.
You know what's going on andsee video of of you know folks
teaching, kids learning, ourinstructors teaching.
We really do need the support.

(02:01:07):
It's been a rough year, I know,for everyone, but we're we're
definitely we need a lot of helpon our fundraiser a bit behind
and hoping to rally.
So if y'all can make a taxdeductible donation, even of
just like 10 bucks right, even$10 you get a best of the global
beat cypher compilation.
But it's a mixed compilation.
Dj new mixed the volume onelast year that we gave us thank

(02:01:29):
you gifts that we're giving, andvolume two is going to be a
thank you gift for the $10 level.
We got T you know T shirts likethis and hats for higher giving
levels.
It really makes a hugedifference in us being able to
sustain our work in elementary.
We're going to teach inelementary school students beat
making fourth and fifth graderseven younger sometimes middle
school students, high schoolstudents, kids in juvenile

(02:01:50):
detention and foster systems.
Imagine being a fourth graderand getting to make beats and
having professional beat makerscome in and make beats with you
and being able to make your ownbeat tapes.
Like it's a no brainer for meand I hope most beat makers can
can understand that.
And if y'all can donate, itreally helps.
If you even you know, even ifyou only donate 10 bucks or if

(02:02:12):
you can't donate, you can'tafford it.
Share the video, like the videoon all the different platforms.
Comment on it.
Share with one person that youthink would like it.
Share with someone that maybeyou think could donate or
believes in the mission, becauseyou never know who's going to
see it.
You never know and that'sreally important and we're
trying to spread our mission.
We're also doing a beat cipheryear and annual fundraiser event

(02:02:33):
in person Sunday, december 17th, 11am to 5pm in Oakland,
california, the Bay Area, atLovely Day where we've been
doing a lot of our beat cipherOAKs the Oakland beat ciphers.
This is volume 21 beat cipherOAK, open ox.
We always have an open ox.
It'll be open ox at thebeginning, maybe even one at the

(02:02:55):
end.
Beat sets by Telly McLean, whoI believe has been a guest on
this program.
You know, looking for peoplelike science, a bunch of other
really dope beat makers.
Let me check the lineup becausethere's just so many that like
incredibly talented beat makers,and the open ox remains open

(02:03:15):
for everyone.
We always do that.
It's really important thatpeople have a place, a venue and
an opportunity to play theirbeats for the audience.
You know, for the cipher andhip hop, we got Bravo Domo.

Speaker 1 (02:03:27):
Who's Dope and Sacramento Team Machine.
That's a Team Machine guy.

Speaker 2 (02:03:33):
Yeah, incredible dancer too EC, who's Monzerock's
cousin, who runs Flip a BeatClub, science will rend off the
fifth, who is an incredible beatmaker and performer and a
monster beat battler.
If you want to see some of themost entertaining beat battles
you'll see in your life, go backand watch Team Canada with a

(02:03:54):
shea and works versus my man,will Rand, off the fifth.
And my homie, my little homie,mickey Breeze, who's an
incredible turntablist and beatmaker from Twin Cities,
minnesota, us, versus Canadateam beat battle.
Anyway, not to digress, toomuch.

Speaker 1 (02:04:11):
But Will Rand, off the beat battle.
I think I see no one.

Speaker 2 (02:04:15):
Oh man, I gotta go back.

Speaker 1 (02:04:17):
Yeah, it's crazy.

Speaker 2 (02:04:19):
Thanks to the Monk who I was talking about, one of
the best finger drummers inCalifornia performing live
finger drumming DJ01, spiderBeats I'm sure Fifth Pee will
show up who's incredible?
Bobby Mack and AWOL if you knowthem, coddy Wampal Records
those are the little homies.
Hopefully they're coming outtoo.
Hamza, who's another incrediblebeat maker and artist and
rapper and singer Anyone who'sin the Bay and you meet Beats

(02:04:43):
come, come play your beats inthe open.
Ox, it's all about buildingcommunity opportunity, a venue,
a place for us to gather as beatmakers.
Yeah, and if you could donate,we appreciate it.
We got some dope merch.
We also got the prototype ofthe TFS 5 panel jockey cap.
Here you can see this.
It's mini, little TFS logos.
We also got the Beats for Lunchgear.

(02:05:05):
We got bucket hats, dad hats,snapbacks.
We got I haven't shown anyoneelse this before, but this
hasn't even been posted on thewebsite but we got this kind of
water resistant kind of coachjacket.
You feel me with the TFS logohere.
We also got other windbreakerswith hoodies, camo windbreakers
that are pretty sick.

(02:05:25):
So we got a lot of really dopegear.
We got hoodies and t-shirts.
I'll show you one of the.
This is one of our many buckethats.
We got custom hats coming, moredifferent designs and Beats for
Lunch.
I'll show you all the.
We got Beats for Lunch logoAbleton push, dream machine

(02:05:47):
hoodies, which is what I'mwearing.
I'm wearing the t-shirt rightnow, but we got hoodies,
t-shirts of this.
You can see it's a dreammachine because it's got both.
It's got.
This is our OG logo had theturntable and the keys and the
book and the beat machine, thePC kind of thing.
So we got this in color with abite out of it.
Beats for Lunch our program atWest Oakland Middle School.
We've been running duringlunchtime since 2012,.

(02:06:10):
Right, which really was ajumping off point.
So we got this and if you youknow, if you make a big, big
enough donation, you get that aspart of your thank you gift.
But you could also just buy the, buy the gear directly.
You know we ship these all overthe world.
It supports a good cause.
Windbreakers, hoodies,crewnecks, t-shirts got tons of
one-of-a-kind hats.

(02:06:31):
So I'm really excited aboutthat.
People can come check that outand support.
Go to today's feature,soundbigcartelcom.
You buy it there if you want toDM today's huge sound, or you
can DM me, philip Jolman, if youwant to cop some stuff.
We're also selling limitededition other ground MF Doom

(02:06:51):
figurines and some uh bootlegquasi moto joints too.
It's pretty fresh.
We also got some in blue aswell, multiple different
iterations of the MF Doom thing.
So just some undergroundChilean hip hop memorabilia
super bootleg.

Speaker 1 (02:07:09):
Yeah, yeah, okay, Hold on, man, because you know
you, you pick your mind.
It's definitely because Ibelieve in what y'all doing, man
, so, um, I'm a DM, you aboutthem two figurines right there,
All right, and then uh, and thenum, so okay, uh, internets, man
.
So you go to today's featuresoundorg, right?

(02:07:31):
Um, yep, we're going to see.
I think it's eight differenttiers that you can donate, right
?
So starts off with $10.
You get them.
You know, I mean a digital, um,GBC beat tape, global beat,
cypher beat tape.
Then it goes to 25, which getmore stuff included um $50, $100

(02:07:53):
, and then more stuff just keepsgetting added to it.
And then also, um, the big car,today's feature sound, that big
cartel that I have that right.

Speaker 2 (02:08:04):
Yeah, yeah, big cartelcom.
That's where our digitalstorefront where we have, like
you know, t-shirts and hats andstuff like that you can order
through that.
Um, for the the figurines, justhit me up directly.
Um, we haven't really put thaton the store but, uh, you know,
buying them from some, somehomies in Chile and reselling
them.
Uh, I've already sold a bunchin Australia and locally here.

(02:08:26):
They're dope man.
If you're, if you're a hip hophead, you know you gotta have
your, gotta have your figurines,your beat machines.
We got crazy limited editionsticker packs, handmade in
Mexico, of these all thesedifferent like crazy mutant beat
machines like a 303 with likeslime in it and, like you know,
a mosquito SP 1200.
Like our, our sticker game isis dumb.

(02:08:46):
We got some crazy, crazy beatmaking stickers for sale as well
.
But it all supports ourtherapeutic beat making groups
that we do in elementary, middleand high schools, in juvenile
detention and community settingsand the free beat ciphers that
we do, not only here in Oakland,nationally and internationally.
Right, so, bringing it to yourlocal community.
We're able to do that with yoursupport and we really do depend

(02:09:09):
on community support and thisyear in annual fundraiser it's a
tax deductible donation Ifyou're in the United States.
If you're not, we still reallyappreciate the support and
you're supporting somethingreally positive.
We've been putting out freebeat tapes for, like you know,
12 years right, and all theglobal beat cipher beat tapes
are for free download.
With you know, people like Shayworks, boom Baptist, like you

(02:09:31):
know, crazy, crazy names buck,wild, doug, infinite for all
made beats that were on theseglobal beat cipher videos and
that are on these beat tapesStolen drums.

Speaker 1 (02:09:44):
Man, I'm trying to do the math.
If I had, there's like 17 timesfour, what's that?
Oh no, there's like 400 andsomething.
Beat tapes on today's featuresounds band camp, yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:09:59):
Okay, 500 beat tapes yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:10:03):
Almost, yeah, almost 500 beat tapes like a yo y'all
need to tap.
I'm going to link everything inthe description in the next, so
don't even worry about it.
The goal right now for today'sfeature sound is 20,000.
And do I have that right?

Speaker 2 (02:10:17):
We're aiming for 20,000.
Yep, we need your help to pushthe needle on that.
So remember, anything helps.
$10 helps, you know.
Do $5, do $5, whatever, do fivemore and get the beat tape.
It's fire.
And yeah, you know, anyanything at all helps.
If you can't donate, share like, pass it along, spread the

(02:10:37):
message, spread the love.
Our hashtag and our slogan forthis campaign is keep kids
making beats.

Speaker 1 (02:10:48):
I like that, yo, I like that, yo, I like that, yo.
So here's what the, the retropodcast, is going to do, man,
I'm going to keep that posted onthe podcast or the IG stories.
I'm going to keep that postedall month in December.
Yo, that's my pledge to you,that's my place to you.
Man, every day is going to beup there with that link to

(02:11:10):
donate to today's Future SoundGiving Tuesday, like the, the
fund raiser for 2023, man, so,all month, that's what you're
going to see.
So, anytime you all click onthe retro podcast, yeah, it's
going to be.
You know things about futureguests and you know the other
shows we have coming up withstuff like that.

(02:11:32):
But this is a little bit biggerimpact, man, and we all should
get behind this and otherprograms that are going on
around in the United States andaround the world too.
Man, he's talking Chile,australia, america, spain I
don't know if you've been toSpain yet Tokyo.

Speaker 2 (02:11:49):
We're working on it.
We're working on the Japan tourwith the homies from Australia
Shout out the chop and my man,debo, who we do the annual beat
battle fundraiser with in Sydney.
Every usually every July, we doa fundraiser beat battle, then
we do a goodbye party and beatcipher for me it's, it's my

(02:12:11):
going away party, philty's goingaway party.
So we did that in September.
It was amazing and we're we're,we're planning a Japanese tour
with you know Australian beatmakers.
Hopefully some American beatmakers maybe come on over with
me and you know anyone elsewho's part of the crew or who
wants to come along.
Japan's on the list and I know,I know you know people there.

(02:12:31):
We got folks there too.
So, yeah, you're looking at it.

Speaker 1 (02:12:36):
Yeah, man Always, always skating in there, but in
a good way though.
Okay, so last two questions.
It might be actually 2.5, butlet me ask this question out of
all the things that you cancreate, man, and all the things
that you've done, why createmusic?

Speaker 2 (02:13:01):
So this comes back again to my therapeutic beat
making model, explaining how andwhy music, but particularly
beat making, is therapeutic.
Right, when you make music,you're expressing.
It's coming from inside you,right, and something that you do
externally.
But it's coming from within you, it's something that you're
creating and generating, it'syour unconscious being projected
into the outside world.

(02:13:21):
So you're expressing what'swhat's inside you and you're
creating your own nonverbalmusical narrative.
That's the way I view beats andbeat making.
But the repetition of the beatsand the drums and the
repetition can also calm ournervous system and put up into
light trance, like states.
It calms us down.
Repetitive beats, repetitivemotions help us to calm down.

(02:13:44):
That's why kids, who maybe areon the autistic or Asperger's
spectrum, do that kind of handflapping, self soothing behavior
.
That's why you you know if youhave a baby, you rock it
rhythmically, right, and you maysing to it, so we can soothe
ourselves, communicate toourselves, communicate to others
, help to kind of calm ourselvesdown, create something and

(02:14:05):
create something that existsoutside of us.
Right, that's tangible, right,and I think it reminds us of our
existence, reminds us of who weare.
It's a way that we share apiece of ourselves in the world,
with others, a way that wecommunicate and join with others
, and it's really, it's prettyprofound thing, if you think
about it, for someone to listento a piece of music that you've

(02:14:26):
made, to see you perform, andreally connect with you and
engage.
It's an incredible way ofconnecting, it's a very
connected way and, like we'reall you know, I did a live
stream about this this morningon my on my Instagram, on the
Philip Drummond Instagram,explaining how and why, you know
, beat making is therapeutic and, like us, joining in the same

(02:14:46):
moment, syncing up, nodding ourhead or dancing, or just syncing
to the same beat, is reallyunifying us in a pretty profound
way, sometimes beyond whatwords can express.
In the same way that makingmusic, I think, can help us to
express, maybe what we can'tarticulate with words,
necessarily nonverbally.
Our lived experience, ourtrauma is nonverbal, it's

(02:15:10):
preverbal, it's, but we receiveit into our brains, into our
amygdala, which is ourattachment system, before it
gets to the part of our brain,our prefrontal cortex, that
where we think and constructlanguage.
It goes through our amygdalaand through our body right, and
so, therefore, we can expressthings that we may not be able
to otherwise express or processand process in a different way.

(02:15:33):
And music soothes us.
It helps us to expressourselves, helps us to join, it
gives us a profound feeling ofconnection and I think it can be
making music and give youpurpose and help you to have
something you know, help youridentity.
It's kind of like whatever yourjob is, whether it's connected
to music or not, it can be analternative way, alternative

(02:15:53):
sense of identity.
I don't give a shit about youknow what job someone works or
other stuff in their lives.
If I know them as a beatmakerand I love their beats, I first
and foremost connect to them asthat and it's been like that for
20, 25 years.
We're like so and so beats,like I receive you as an artist,

(02:16:15):
I care about you, I care aboutyou as an artist and that's
important for us to have thosecommunities and subcultures and
those identities where we'rereceived as that and we're not
like you know Bob, who does youknow construction or is a
janitor or who's a psychologistor whatever.
We all connect through beatsand through a hip hop culture
and that shared subculture.
And that's why I think likecommunities like Flip a Beat

(02:16:36):
Club or the Global Beat Cipheror Beat Cipher, oak or any of
these other communities of beatmakers and music and hip hop
music, musicians and artists areso important and places where
we're hopefully joining inpositive ways and supporting
each other and have an identityoutside of that.
So I think making music isincredibly important in that.

(02:16:57):
I think it's important to buildand construct things where we
often destruct things, right.
I think it's important to notjust be a consumer, but to be a
producer.
I think it's also important tobe a consumer as well, like as
well as a producer, right, and Ilearn, we learn constantly by
making music.
I think there's so manydifferent aspects to it.

(02:17:18):
I could talk about it for hours, but those are some of my
thoughts on it.

Speaker 1 (02:17:22):
I got you man Yo.
How can the internet work?
Can the internet find you?
You know, any like social medialanes or websites or anything
like that.

Speaker 2 (02:17:39):
Yeah, my website, I mean I'd say my link tree, is
the best place to go.
Link tree, link dot, it's likelink dot or link tr, dot e or
whatever it is.
Link tree slash filthy drummedwith a pH will take you to all
my different kind of pages.
I'm on SoundCloud as PhilipDrummond with two L's P H I L L

(02:18:03):
I P D R U M M O N D.
I'm on Bandcamp same spelling,philip Drummond, dot.
Bandcamp, dot com.
Filthy beats dot com with a pH,only one L in that one.
At Philip Drummond, two L's P HI L L I P D R U M M O N D.
On Instagram, I think it's.

(02:18:25):
I have a Facebook page profileas well under that.
That's linked to that and youcan also go to Facebook dot com.
Slash filthy D beats.
Youtube is Philip Drummond samespelling as before.
Philip Drummond with two L's.
Today's Future Sound dot org isour website at Today's Future
Sound on Instagram.
Today's Future Sound on YouTube.

(02:18:47):
Tfs underscore beats.
On Twitter I'm also on Philipthe Philip Drummond handle on
threads, the Instagram Twitterkind of spin off thing from
Instagram.
Yeah, just you know, today'sFuture Sound dot org.
Good place to go.
Our fundraiser is, you know thebit dot L, y, bit dot Lee slash

(02:19:09):
TFS AF 24.
Go check out.
You know the video there.
Make a donation, follow us onsocial media to know what's
going on in terms of like eventsand such.
And we live stream the beatcypher.
So if you can't make it inperson, on at Today's Future
Sound on Instagram, our YouTubehas a huge library of beat

(02:19:31):
cypher broadcasts.
We also have it.
I think the Twitch ones uh,delete after a while, but
they're archived on YouTube.
They also were streaming to ourFacebook.
Dot com slash Today's FutureSound.
Yeah, man, well, you knowyou'll find me where we're
usually where today's futuresound is at, and um, much love
to Rex show podcast for havingme where it's supported.

(02:19:52):
Today's Future Sound.
Therapeutic beat making.
Hip hop therapy, hip hopeducation.
Check out the year end annualfundraiser.
Cops and fresh merch.
Some beat makes merch.
If you're that beat life andbeat culture, cop the gear we
got dope hats, t-shirts,stickers, windbreakers, hoodies
um, you know all that good stuff.

Speaker 1 (02:20:14):
Yeah, um, can we, can we, um, can we talk about this
net, this new single, real quick?
Um, you got a single that'scoming out.
It's called next to nothing, Ithink.

Speaker 2 (02:20:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:20:27):
I dropped in 12,.

Speaker 2 (02:20:28):
Oh one a this morning .

Speaker 1 (02:20:29):
This morning yeah, yeah Best ball.

Speaker 2 (02:20:33):
Well, his a K is technically it's with Ray
Normandy, which is one of bestPaul's many uh, lo-fi, slash,
boom back aliases Shout out tomy guy best Paul.
I put out several singles withhim.
Now lo-fi and boom back singlesit's one of my favorite beats
that I've made in a long while,Definitely for sure.

Speaker 1 (02:20:53):
Yeah, oh, man, we're going to link that as well.
It's going to be a crazy amountof links in this episode, man.
So, into that, skip ready.
Yo replay this over again, man.
It's going to be holidayscoming up, so yo listen.
If y'all want to give give totoday's future sound man, buy
some merch.
As you know, it's going toimpact way more than just going

(02:21:16):
to just buy something that's youknow, like a pair of $300 shoes
or something like that.
Like I don't know ifeverybody's spending like that,
because our dollars ain't buyingthat much in these days, but,
um, yeah, just consider donatingto today's future sound man.
Dr Elliot Gannon, aka filthy,filthy drumming Philip.

(02:21:38):
Drumming man, I appreciate yourtime.
If you got to say anything tothe, to the mutants, to the all,
to the internet's man, whatwould be one final thing that
you would leave them with?

Speaker 2 (02:21:49):
I got one and a half things to say.
Today's future sound has 112free sample packs that have been
crazily curated with some ofthe dopest samples of music from
around the globe old music tosample that you can download for
free at soundcloudcom.
Slash today's future sound.
Go download that and considermaking a donation.

(02:22:10):
But what would I say?
I'd say make beats, not war.
Be patient, kind, considerate,compassionate with yourself,
keep making art, keep makingmusic, collaborate.
Just try to like, buildcommunity and build
understanding and understandthat you know if other people

(02:22:33):
are mean to you or say some, youknow hate or ass shit to you,
that it's about them and themprojecting their hate.
Also, you know be open toquestioning yourself and how
your actions impact others.
But I really hope that everyonegains as much joy and
satisfaction from making beatsas I do and sharing it with each

(02:22:56):
other.
Join your local community scene, keep on building.
It's helically shaded, but theyouth are our future and that's
why you got to support today'sfuture sound, because the
children are the present, butthey're also the future, the
future of beats and hip hop.
So you got to support.

Speaker 1 (02:23:18):
There it is.
I'm going to cut that.
I'm going to cut that.
So you stop the recording andquit.

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Beats, Therapy, and Hip Hop: A Conversation with Philip Drummond

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