June 23, 2025 • 28 mins
Ever find yourself trying to be someone you're not because you think that's what success demands? After a challenging year filled with unexpected setbacks and profound self-doubt, I'm breaking my silence to share what happens when you abandon your authentic self in pursuit of others' definitions of success.
This raw, unfiltered conversation explores the identity crisis that paralyzed both my content creation and leadership effectiveness. I reveal how attempting to follow mentors' advice to "stop being reckless" and "get more leverage" led me to abandon the very activities that had previously driven my success – coaching team members, creating content, and building a distinctive culture.
The truth hit me like a ton of bricks during a recent leadership meeting: what I considered my greatest strengths had become our company's most glaring weaknesses. Why? Because I'd been trying to operate as a $100 million CEO when my business and leadership weren't ready for that level. In trying to skip ahead, I'd created gaps that undermined everything we'd built.
This episode marks a return to authenticity – a recommitment to the leadership approach that feels natural rather than forced. I share how taking extreme ownership means acknowledging that the failures in my business reflected my own shortcomings as a leader, but it also means accepting that the path forward isn't about transformation into someone else.
For any entrepreneur feeling pressured to abandon their natural strengths and leadership style to "level up," this conversation offers a powerful reminder: the most valuable thing you can do is get really good at being YOU before trying to become someone else. The dragons you slay along your journey become evidence of who you're becoming – but only if you face them as your authentic self.
Thank you for listening to The Reckless CEO Podcast
You can tweet us @ https://twitter.com/TheRecklessCEO
Follow Michael on Instagram @ https://www.instagram.com/therecklessceo/?hl=en
Reckless CEO Youtube @ https://www.youtube.com/@therecklessceo
Go follow our parent company on Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/recklessmediacompany/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet&igshid=OGQ5ZDc2ODk2ZA==
Email brittany@columbusroofingco.com
for all inquiries including speaking engagements, and to be a guest on the show
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Right, you're like that buzzer ain't rang, that
game ain't over with, so keepgoing.
I have thrived in that chaos.
How could this be happening?
Did any of you guys payattention to anything I said?
Like get arrested, guess, untilthey get the message.
(00:24):
Welcome back to the recklessceo podcast, where we keep it
real raw and reckless aboutbusiness and life.
They ain't really gotten thesauce and I ain't got.
You know what I mean it's like.
Here is your host, the recklessceo himself, michael mcgovern.
Welcome back to therecklessckless CEO Podcast.
(00:45):
Man, it's been some time.
I got a lot of things I'm goingto share today, a lot of things
I'm excited to talk about,catch up on and just kind of
really dive into the absence,the absence right and where.
(01:09):
You know where I have been inmy entrepreneurial journey and
in life, as you will.
You know I would say that overthe past, I want to say six,
let's say the last 12 months.
You know, if I go back and lookat where I'm at today and you
know where things have gone overthe last few months, you know
I'd say the last year has been,you know, one of the one of the
(01:30):
most difficult years for me, andI don't know.
You know I've been trying tokind of piece it together and
say you know why, why has itbeen difficult?
What has made it difficult?
You know, one of the thingsthat I kind of start out with is
that I think so much of it hasbeen expectations.
Right, you have an expectationof how things are going to go,
(01:55):
or how things are going to turnout, or how they should turn out
in your own mind, right?
And you know, when I was comingoff the end of last season,
coming in, you know, to thisyear, you know big plans, you
know had a few people that hadbeen on the team for a few years
, you know, really excited aboutwhere the team was going and
(02:16):
where we were going and what thefuture looked like.
And it was bright.
Right, I had this expectationthat we were going to come in
and you know we were going todouble revenue and we were just
going to dominate the niche andwe were just going to have this
team of warriors and just takeover the marketplace.
That's the vision that I hadand I looked around and I didn't
(02:37):
see why that wouldn't happen.
But then, as season goes on andthings change, I had a couple
people that I had moved aroundin positions and things didn't
work out the way that I hadhoped they will.
And I can look back now and say, man, I saw it coming, I should
(02:58):
have known it.
But I think that ignorance isbliss as well, right?
We, you know, a lot of times wesee things or we know that we
should say something about athing and we don't, and we avoid
it because we know in the backof our mind, if I have this hard
conversation, if I do thisthing, that the outcome might
not be what I hope for.
(03:19):
And so I think maybe wehesitate, we hold off, we let
things evolve and see where theygo.
And for me, I'm not aconfrontational guy, I'm not a,
it's just not who I am right, Iwould much rather avoid it most
times, and that doesn't get you.
I think that there's a time toavoid and there's a time to face
(03:42):
things head on, and I thinkthat's been one of my biggest
lessons over the past year isjust, you know, being honest and
being open and just being, youknow, brutal with the truth
sometimes and then having thatradical candor, because what
happens is, you know, in themoment.
It might be uncomfortable, butI think it actually saves a lot
of time, a lot of energy.
(04:02):
You know a lot of things and soyou know I'll get into all of
that, but before that I want totalk about, you know, the last.
You know, I had the Reckless CEOpodcast and you know, and it
kind of really was like thething that I would say got me.
You know, I don't want to saylike the podcast got me momentum
, but when I look around it waslike that the podcast itself was
(04:24):
.
You know, it brought a lot ofpeople into my circle and I was
able to connect with a lot ofdifferent leaders and interview
people.
And you know all of this thing.
And you know, and for those ofyou that don't know, with the
podcast I had a partnership witha media company and you know
that kind of you know didn't goas planned and there were just
some losses that were takenthere, whether through
(04:47):
financially and relationshipsand things, and so as that ended
, I kind of transitioned andobviously the roofing company
has expanded and grown and sothat has taken a lot of my
energy and I would say againover this past year that I've
almost been because of thethings that have happened, I
(05:08):
felt that I was kind of tryingto run away from that right, run
away from this, this, thereckless CEO, and what does that
even mean Right?
And you know, I think we have tobe careful with you know who we
take advice from, or how we, orhow we take their advice Right.
A lot of times, if you havesomebody that is an important
(05:29):
person in your life and theyadvise you on something or have
an opinion, a lot of times atleast for me, when I see
somebody doing the things that Iwant to be doing and they give
me advice, a lot of times I'lllook at my own life and question
am I doing the right thing?
Would they have done this andis this the right move?
And we start to kind of allowother people's opinions to shift
(05:52):
and maybe change us sometimesand I think that's probably
natural, you know, and sometimesit's a good thing.
But what I have found, thatover the last 12 months, that it
has not been a good thing forme.
You know, I let people kind ofguide the direction for me and
you know, and we all want, weall need that right, you're
better off to learn from youknow other people's experiences
(06:16):
and the struggles and theproblems that they have had than
learning from your own.
You know, I can agree to that,but I also think that you have
to take it with a grain of saltbecause you are, you right,
you're the only one that is you.
You're the only one that hasyour skill sets and your
abilities and your vision andyour.
You know just the things thatyou bring to this universe.
(06:40):
And I think that you knowtaking advice from people is
powerful, but it's alsounderstanding that you know
they're not you, and so the waythat they do things, the way
that they see things, is goingto be different, and so you have
to be able to listen and, youknow, embody it, but also make
sure you stay true to who youare.
And I would say you know thelast year, you know I have tried
(07:02):
to put different podcaststogether.
You know I have tried to comeup with new things, and you know
not to record this becausethere's things that had happened
.
And you know I had a mentortell me like man, I don't really
think that.
You know you're reckless man.
Like that doesn't, you know,doesn't suit you anymore.
And you know I took that andwas like man, maybe he's right,
(07:26):
right, maybe, maybe, maybe he's.
You know that.
You know I took it almost tooto heart, right, cause I'm
thinking like man.
I want to try to.
You know the roofing companyand I'm, you know, my focus is
on that, and I want to beselling to affluent homeowners.
And what are the homeownersgoing to think if they hear
about a reckless CEO podcast?
And are they going to think I'mjust, you know, off my rails
and you know, maybe they won'tbuy from me and and so you know
(07:47):
all of these things.
And so I started to try to likeget away from that and I
started to like try to befurther ahead than where I was
or where I am right, where I'mlike man.
Maybe I can, you know, come upwith a podcast.
It's like around ascension andevolution, because it's going to
be about where I'm going and,you know, in this different
direction.
For me and I'm not this guy whoI was, and you know reckless,
(08:09):
got me to here, but it's notgoing to get me to there.
And you know, you hear allthese things that in order to
change and grow, you know whatgot you here won't get you there
.
And so you start to look atyour life and say, you know, is
that 80% of me that I have tochange in order to be focused on
that 20% that's going to growme.
Who do I have to become?
And I'm sharing all this andusing the podcast as a reference
(08:33):
.
But it's true, right, you dohave to change, you do have to
grow and you do have to evolve,but I think there's certain
things about us that make us whowe are, and that you have to be
able to know what to change andknow what to evolve and what to
keep.
You know, I had a conversationwith our team yesterday and
(08:57):
we're going through a book cluband we basically picked a book
that we're reading and we'regoing to be discussing it with
the leadership team on a weeklybasis, and the book we chose is
Extreme Ownership by Jocko.
And so you know, we get thereyesterday and we're listening to
it and every part of me is likeman, I take extreme ownership,
(09:18):
I don't.
This is, I don't need this, I'mnot going to learn anything
from this, I'm doing this forthem.
But we get into it and you know, we're a chapter in and he's
talking about you know all ofthese different things and where
you need to take ownership andwhere you need to do this and
where you need to do that.
And you know I'm just writingnotes down as we go and we wrap
up the book.
And you know I'm sitting thereand I'm, and all these, all the
leaders, are talking, man, Icould be better there.
(09:39):
You know we're not doing this,we're not doing that, and I'm,
you know, listening and thinkingthe whole time and it really
hits me and it's like man, likeit is all your fault.
Right, the where we're at rightnow is all your fault.
Where we're not at is all yourfault.
And why?
(10:00):
Because I wanted to be furtherthan I was, and I think we all
probably experienced this atsome point.
Right, you want to get to thatnext level, but sometimes you're
not ready for that next level.
Sometimes you've got to bebetter at the level you're at
before you can even move forward.
(10:21):
Right, you know I would listento books and, again, mentors and
all these things.
And it's like man, meetings arepointless.
You can't have meetings and youknow you, you know it's just
sitting around wasting time andyou got to be hyper-focused on
the things that are going tocreate you the most leverage.
And you know there's all ofthese just inputs, and I think
that you know, the the thehigher you climb and the more
(10:44):
that you achieve, the moreopportunities there are.
They're more, you know, yourskill sets become better.
So there's all of thesedifferent things that you can
start to get into and I'verealized that, like, in order to
be great at anything, you haveto say no to so many things and
you have to focus, like hyperfocus, and you have to really
understand, like what you'rebest at Right, like hyper focus,
and you have to reallyunderstand, like what you're
(11:05):
best at Right.
I have, you know, wanted ourcompany to be at a hundred
million and doing all this scaleand, and you know, and so I
started trying to put myself ina place that I wasn't ready for.
You know, when I look back atthe company, I see that, like
where we're struggling at, youknow, we're struggling at the
things that I'm actually best atright.
(11:26):
The other night I'm sitting with, I was sitting with Leah and
you know, and again, it's been ahard year.
It's been, you know, I don'twant to say it's been a bad year
, right, and what is bad right,I think that you know, a lot of
times, we allow a bad moment tobecome a bad day, to become a
bad week, to become a bad month,to become a bad year.
(11:47):
Right, bad is just what it isin that moment and most of the
time, bad is just because theexpectations that you had didn't
get met.
Therefore, because you're sofocused on the future that
you're thinking about all ofthese things and you're actually
missing the moments that arehappening in front of you right
(12:09):
now, right, when I look at thecompany right now, you know I,
when I was sitting with Leahlast night or the other night,
um, you know, I told her I'mlike man, I'm, I'm, I'm having
this like identity crisis.
You know, when I look at where Iwas two years ago when I
started the business and I hadall these you know guys that
were, you know this culture guys, and like athletes and military
(12:31):
, and, like you know, I feltlike a great leader and I was
like bringing us together and,you know, people knew who we
were and we had a feel and wehad a look and it was like man.
I will, if you ask me, what issomething you're good at?
I said man, I'm good at cultureand leadership, and I look at
where we're at right now andit's that's our biggest weakness
, right, the biggest weakness wehave right now is the close
(12:53):
knit to culture, the leadership,right, all of the things that
I'm actually thought that I wasbest at, and so I sort of
questioned myself saying likedamn, am I even, am I even good
at these things anymore?
Am I even?
Was I ever good at it?
Right, was I just good atleading in good times versus
being able to lead in strugglesand bad times?
Right?
(13:15):
And so it's the lens that welook through and and and you
know, can you reframe it?
I look at where I thought thisseason was going to be and where
we're at and you know, and tome it's like it's a
disappointment, right, I'mfrustrated.
I'm irritated, I'm mad ateverybody else, but I'm not.
I'm not looking at myself.
You know, and I talked about inthe beginning, you know, I tried
(13:36):
to be further ahead, trying tobe someone you're not trying to,
you know, change the brand andchange who I am.
Because of why, right?
Right, we got to slow down andbe present and be in the moment
and realize that.
You know, you've got to getreally good at being you, not
(13:58):
trying to be somebody else, nottrying to be a $100 million CEO
when you're a $10 million CEO ora $5 million CEO or a $1
million CEO, right.
Until you can build the systemsand the processes and the
structures to know that you cando this thing at an elite level,
don't try to get to that nextlevel, right?
I stopped making content, reallybecause in my mind I'm like man
(14:21):
, I don't want to be the face.
I want to help to build otherpeople up.
I want to empower them.
I want them to be the face.
I don't want it to be all aboutme.
It's not the mic show, but Irealized that it was like that
was the thing that actuallyattracted the people, right?
I think that we we underestimateour ability and our skill.
Sets to the things thatactually become, that have
(14:42):
become, that come easy to us.
Right, there are things thatyou and I do that we are really
good at that don't take a lot ofenergy and effort and a lot of
times we don't do those thingsbecause we think that they're
not valuable, because they don'ttake a lot of our capacity, we
think that things have to betaxing and difficult and a
(15:04):
struggle to get through in orderfor it to be impactful.
And it's not the truth.
I find my flow state when I'mleading and coaching and doing
this, and so why would I want tonot do that?
Well, because I have mentorstelling me that that's not what
the people at the highest levelare doing.
They're not spending their timemaking content, and why would I
(15:27):
even listen to that?
I mean, their opinion isvaluable and I'm sure it's true,
maybe for them, but I'm notthem, you're not me, you're you
and I'm me Right.
And so what is it?
The things that get you excitedand make you happy and
realizing that you have to dothose things.
Again, I've tried to change thepodcast name and evolve and do
(15:51):
this and not be shooting becauseof why?
Because someone told me thatthat wasn't the thing that I
should be doing.
But if I look back and it waslike I can see when everything
shifted and changes when I quitdoing the things that I loved.
Right, I had them.
You know, don't spend.
You know your Mondays, youcan't, don't spend.
You know your Mondays, youcan't, don't spend hours on
coaching guys and training guys,and you know you got to be
(16:13):
getting leverage and you got tobe doing all these things and
it's like, yeah, but thosethings were actually the things
that made everything else better.
Right, we sat around the tablewith the leaders yesterday and,
and you know, and, and in mymind I'm like man, like we, we
used to do one-on-ones all thetime and now we're doing them
like once a month because wedon't need them, because we need
(16:33):
to be able to like, getleverage and grow, and we can't
be spending time, wasting timetalking, you know, and one of
the leaders said, yes, they saidwell, mike, you know, I can be
like going through it, thinkingabout all the things and like in
my head and you know thingsaren't going well, and then,
(16:54):
like, I have a conversation withyou and like I'm good, I'm good
for another few weeks, and ithit me because it's like, damn,
I've been a terrible leader.
Yeah, I can, I can.
You know, you can lead in goodtimes, when you're excited and
everything's flowing and it'seasy to have these conversations
.
But what's the kind of leaderthat you are when things aren't
(17:15):
that?
Are you willing to take thatownership?
Are you willing to to reflectand say, hey, you know, man
you're, you're, maybe you'redoing things the wrong way, man,
maybe you're doing things thewrong way.
And shooting this podcast todayis kind of like my you could say
the rebirth.
Right, it's me getting back tomy roots and coming back and
(17:39):
sharing things, and I have just,I've felt I have been insecure
of who I am or what I'm doingbecause of all of these things
that have just transpired thisyear, and I realized that so
much of it that has happened,that the thing that always kept
me grounded and, you know, infocus was the things that I
(18:00):
enjoyed to do, and that Ihaven't been doing any of those
things Right.
And so in your life, when yougo through these, you know Right
.
And so in your, in your life,when you go through these bad
seasons, what is it that youknow?
I think that's what's this,what makes it so important to
reflect, and you know, know whatmakes a day a great day and
then what makes a day not sogreat.
(18:20):
And then how can you just focuson doing more of those things
that make your days great?
You know, for me, if I had tothink, man, like, what's my, the
three things that make a greatday, I think one is the, you
know, moving at my pace, notfeeling rushed, not feeling like
I'm going here, I'm going thereand I'm just sporadic and I'm
(18:43):
just responding all the day andreacting Like I want to be able
to wake up, set the tone for myday, you know, read a little bit
and just be, be present, allright.
Then I like to get to theoffice and I like to have deep
conversations and see peoplehave that like aha moment that
you know, maybe something that Isaid like unlocked it for them,
right, and then and then I loveto just think about ideas and
(19:07):
expand on that and be able tobrainstorm, right, and have
those like human interactionsand relationships and
conversations throughout a day.
It's like those are the thingsthat pretty much make up a good
day for me.
And if I look back, it's like,dude, I haven't been doing any
of that.
I have been so focused onchanging me that I forgot me,
(19:36):
and for what reason, you know.
I think we all go through.
You have to sometimes.
I think the best thing that youcan do is to find yourself, is
to lose yourself, because whenyou're lost, you start to think
back of like, what was it thatmade me happy?
What was the things that mademe me?
(19:56):
What were those things?
Right over this past year Isaid we're coming back in the
year with six people that sevenpeople that were top people and
been here for two or three years.
And you know, because of peoplethat I put in positions, I, you
know we had conversations aboutme firing people and getting rid
of people and I went throughand I just cut, fired this
person and fired this person andfired this person because I'm
(20:17):
trying to empower and letsomebody else make these
decisions on my behalf.
Because the business because ifI listen to everybody, it's
like you're a visionary, you gotto be the vision, you got to
put somebody else in thisposition that can run the
business and it's like, dude,you're trying to be too far
ahead.
You let other people create theway that the business should be
(20:47):
.
When you are the business, ifyou're a CEO and you got to get
an operator and an integrator,and I think that because, so
that you can be focused on thosebig things that it's like make
sure that the person that youput in those situations thinks
like you, has the heart that youhave, has the care that you
have has the vision that youhave.
Don't feel forced into it, andthat was a move that I made, a
(21:12):
mistake that I made, but Irealize now, you know, if I look
at it and say, man, it's been abad year, why you know and I
can reframe it, you have to beable to reframe these things
that happen so that you can lookback and say why are they
happening?
Right, if I have to look backand say, you know, I have to
reframe it, I reframe it bysaying, you know, I'm going
(21:34):
through this thing because therewere things that I lacked.
Right, I needed to get back tothe roots.
I needed to get back to thethings that actually made me who
I am, in order for us toachieve that next level.
And so, although things havenot been great this year, I can
say, man, like, our marketingteam is better, man, our systems
(21:56):
and our processes are better.
Why?
Because when you've got a bunchof people and you're moving and
you're producing revenue andthings are rolling, it can hide
the holes in the business.
And so when things fall apart,that's when you become a true
leader, because when things fallapart, can you turn around and
get them back together and canyou know why they fell apart?
And I can honestly say that youknow, the things that I let go
(22:18):
control of are the things thattore us apart.
And so I think a big big thingif you can take something away
from this today, right is thatyou know, when you've got big
goals and you want to achievebig things, you've got to
understand there's going to belikewise big obstacles.
You've got to understandthere's going to be likewise big
(22:42):
obstacles.
But a lot of times we thinkthat, because we've got these
big goals and that we want toachieve them, that these goals
might take a long time toachieve.
They might take days or years,decades, but yet we think the
obstacles are going to beshort-lived.
We think these obstacles aregoing to be short-lived, right.
We think these obstacles aregoing to be things that you know
they shouldn't take so long toovercome.
(23:05):
But I think when you've got toovercome these obstacles, you
know you start to.
You have to be able to.
You know you can stay in thatvalley of despair as long as you
want.
Do you choose to stay there andsoak in it or do you choose to
(23:26):
evolve from it?
Who you become is evidence ofthe things that you have
overcome.
Most people don't overcomethings.
They get hit in the face withit and it's like, right, it's
something's hard, and they justchoose to not lean into the hard
(23:47):
and grow through the hard,because you know they think that
there's going to be an easierway, a better way, a faster way,
and then you realize that theonly way is the hard way.
So you've got to be able to getthrough these things, because
are you settling or or are youmoving mountains?
Because if you want to achievebig things and great things, you
got to understand there's goingto be some fucking dragons that
(24:08):
you got to slay, but know thatevery dragon you slay is a new
version of you.
And it's not about this iswhere I want to get back you.
And it's not about this iswhere I want to get back to.
Is that it's not about youevolving and changing who you
are?
Because there's something aboutyou that is specific, that
makes you who you are, and Ithink that it's determining what
(24:30):
that is and being able to growand evolve through that, but
staying true to that.
And so the Reckless CEO podcastis back for those who care and
maybe don't care, right.
People might not even realizethat I was not recording
anything.
I could care less, and it'sprobably a story that I've had
in my head that you know thatI've got to be something
(24:53):
different.
I got to change.
I can't be shooting on thispodcast Like it's just these
stories that we just make up andtell ourselves about ourselves
and this reality that we live in.
But I realize that it's like,why do I change something when
it's like it is irrelevant?
What's powerful is not the name.
(25:14):
What's powerful is the messagethat I want to share, and what's
powerful is that I'm not doingit for you, for anybody else,
I'm doing it for me, right?
I love being able to shoot apodcast and have a guest on and
talk to them and have the studioin here that I can pop in and
record on at any time, like Ilove to do that.
It doesn't matter the name ofit.
It doesn't matter if a mentorsays that I shouldn't be that.
(25:42):
It's like dude, it's irrelevant.
I don't care if a homeownerlooks up and sees that I have
the reckless CEO podcast.
Right, it's like you, you know.
I went out to an event lastweek and someone's like that's a
reckless CEO and I was likeembarrassed by it, ashamed, I
mean.
I don't know.
I mean that's how you I'm notdoing that anymore kind of thing
(26:02):
why what it's like you, justit's crazy.
It's crazy right, and that'sall I want to get on here today
and just share about, like Ijust it's just it, it's the.
You know embody who you are.
Don't try to change that, right, because there's something that
(26:27):
you do that's special, thatattracts people.
I'm not saying the podcast isthat for me, but what is for me
is my vulnerability to share andand allow people to experience
the things that I'm goingthrough.
And I think that when we bottlethat up and we don't let that
out we don't have a way to letthat out that we question
(26:49):
ourselves, question our purpose,the direction.
You know all of these things.
So I hope this was valuable.
I hope that know.
I hope that that this is cankind of loop you back in and you
know I'm going to get back toshit.
I've said it a bunch of timesbut it's like I didn't mean it.
You know I mean it today, right, I'm getting back into shooting
(27:10):
.
I'm going to be working ondoing a um like a 12-week series
.
If you will, right, we can callthis kind of episode one of the
you know, know the rebirth, the, the, the comeback right Of of
shooting again.
And then I'm going to walk youthrough, you know, over the next
12 weeks, really getting youknow in depth on kind of the
things that we have been goingthrough and experiencing as a
(27:32):
business, and you know what whathas happened and transpired.
You know how people have reachedout and said, like man, are you
guys still in bit?
Like I literally had someonesay to me the other day, like,
are you guys still in business?
Like I saw a lot of the guysthat you had like aren't there
anymore.
And it's like, man, yeah, we'restill in business, we're doing
great.
You know what I mean.
I mean we were, you know, we,we every year know I'm not
(27:57):
sharing as much, I'm not doingthe things that grew this thing
Right, and so, yes, I'm excitedto share the next few weeks of
just the direction we're going,the things that we're doing, and
I hope that you know theexperiences that I've gone
through can can help you bebecome a better leader or maybe
(28:18):
get through some of these timesand, you know, just use this as
a resource.
Reckless CEO out.
Right, you're like that buzzer ain't rang, that
game ain't over with, so keepgoing.
I have thrived in that chaos.
How could this be happening?
Did any of you guys payattention to anything I said?
Like get arrested, guess, untilthey get the message.
(00:24):
Welcome back to the recklessceo podcast, where we keep it
real raw and reckless aboutbusiness and life.
They ain't really gotten thesauce and I ain't got.
You know what I mean it's like.
Here is your host, the recklessceo himself, michael mcgovern.
Welcome back to therecklessckless CEO Podcast.
(00:45):
Man, it's been some time.
I got a lot of things I'm goingto share today, a lot of things
I'm excited to talk about,catch up on and just kind of
really dive into the absence,the absence right and where.
(01:09):
You know where I have been inmy entrepreneurial journey and
in life, as you will.
You know I would say that overthe past, I want to say six,
let's say the last 12 months.
You know, if I go back and lookat where I'm at today and you
know where things have gone overthe last few months, you know
I'd say the last year has been,you know, one of the one of the
(01:30):
most difficult years for me, andI don't know.
You know I've been trying tokind of piece it together and
say you know why, why has itbeen difficult?
What has made it difficult?
You know, one of the thingsthat I kind of start out with is
that I think so much of it hasbeen expectations.
Right, you have an expectationof how things are going to go,
(01:55):
or how things are going to turnout, or how they should turn out
in your own mind, right?
And you know, when I was comingoff the end of last season,
coming in, you know, to thisyear, you know big plans, you
know had a few people that hadbeen on the team for a few years
, you know, really excited aboutwhere the team was going and
(02:16):
where we were going and what thefuture looked like.
And it was bright.
Right, I had this expectationthat we were going to come in
and you know we were going todouble revenue and we were just
going to dominate the niche andwe were just going to have this
team of warriors and just takeover the marketplace.
That's the vision that I hadand I looked around and I didn't
(02:37):
see why that wouldn't happen.
But then, as season goes on andthings change, I had a couple
people that I had moved aroundin positions and things didn't
work out the way that I hadhoped they will.
And I can look back now and say, man, I saw it coming, I should
(02:58):
have known it.
But I think that ignorance isbliss as well, right?
We, you know, a lot of times wesee things or we know that we
should say something about athing and we don't, and we avoid
it because we know in the backof our mind, if I have this hard
conversation, if I do thisthing, that the outcome might
not be what I hope for.
(03:19):
And so I think maybe wehesitate, we hold off, we let
things evolve and see where theygo.
And for me, I'm not aconfrontational guy, I'm not a,
it's just not who I am right, Iwould much rather avoid it most
times, and that doesn't get you.
I think that there's a time toavoid and there's a time to face
(03:42):
things head on, and I thinkthat's been one of my biggest
lessons over the past year isjust, you know, being honest and
being open and just being, youknow, brutal with the truth
sometimes and then having thatradical candor, because what
happens is, you know, in themoment.
It might be uncomfortable, butI think it actually saves a lot
of time, a lot of energy.
(04:02):
You know a lot of things and soyou know I'll get into all of
that, but before that I want totalk about, you know, the last.
You know, I had the Reckless CEOpodcast and you know, and it
kind of really was like thething that I would say got me.
You know, I don't want to saylike the podcast got me momentum
, but when I look around it waslike that the podcast itself was
(04:24):
.
You know, it brought a lot ofpeople into my circle and I was
able to connect with a lot ofdifferent leaders and interview
people.
And you know all of this thing.
And you know, and for those ofyou that don't know, with the
podcast I had a partnership witha media company and you know
that kind of you know didn't goas planned and there were just
some losses that were takenthere, whether through
(04:47):
financially and relationshipsand things, and so as that ended
, I kind of transitioned andobviously the roofing company
has expanded and grown and sothat has taken a lot of my
energy and I would say againover this past year that I've
almost been because of thethings that have happened, I
(05:08):
felt that I was kind of tryingto run away from that right, run
away from this, this, thereckless CEO, and what does that
even mean Right?
And you know, I think we have tobe careful with you know who we
take advice from, or how we, orhow we take their advice Right.
A lot of times, if you havesomebody that is an important
(05:29):
person in your life and theyadvise you on something or have
an opinion, a lot of times atleast for me, when I see
somebody doing the things that Iwant to be doing and they give
me advice, a lot of times I'lllook at my own life and question
am I doing the right thing?
Would they have done this andis this the right move?
And we start to kind of allowother people's opinions to shift
(05:52):
and maybe change us sometimesand I think that's probably
natural, you know, and sometimesit's a good thing.
But what I have found, thatover the last 12 months, that it
has not been a good thing forme.
You know, I let people kind ofguide the direction for me and
you know, and we all want, weall need that right, you're
better off to learn from youknow other people's experiences
(06:16):
and the struggles and theproblems that they have had than
learning from your own.
You know, I can agree to that,but I also think that you have
to take it with a grain of saltbecause you are, you right,
you're the only one that is you.
You're the only one that hasyour skill sets and your
abilities and your vision andyour.
You know just the things thatyou bring to this universe.
(06:40):
And I think that you knowtaking advice from people is
powerful, but it's alsounderstanding that you know
they're not you, and so the waythat they do things, the way
that they see things, is goingto be different, and so you have
to be able to listen and, youknow, embody it, but also make
sure you stay true to who youare.
And I would say you know thelast year, you know I have tried
(07:02):
to put different podcaststogether.
You know I have tried to comeup with new things, and you know
not to record this becausethere's things that had happened
.
And you know I had a mentortell me like man, I don't really
think that.
You know you're reckless man.
Like that doesn't, you know,doesn't suit you anymore.
And you know I took that andwas like man, maybe he's right,
(07:26):
right, maybe, maybe, maybe he's.
You know that.
You know I took it almost tooto heart, right, cause I'm
thinking like man.
I want to try to.
You know the roofing companyand I'm, you know, my focus is
on that, and I want to beselling to affluent homeowners.
And what are the homeownersgoing to think if they hear
about a reckless CEO podcast?
And are they going to think I'mjust, you know, off my rails
and you know, maybe they won'tbuy from me and and so you know
(07:47):
all of these things.
And so I started to try to likeget away from that and I
started to like try to befurther ahead than where I was
or where I am right, where I'mlike man.
Maybe I can, you know, come upwith a podcast.
It's like around ascension andevolution, because it's going to
be about where I'm going and,you know, in this different
direction.
For me and I'm not this guy whoI was, and you know reckless,
(08:09):
got me to here, but it's notgoing to get me to there.
And you know, you hear allthese things that in order to
change and grow, you know whatgot you here won't get you there
.
And so you start to look atyour life and say, you know, is
that 80% of me that I have tochange in order to be focused on
that 20% that's going to growme.
Who do I have to become?
And I'm sharing all this andusing the podcast as a reference
(08:33):
.
But it's true, right, you dohave to change, you do have to
grow and you do have to evolve,but I think there's certain
things about us that make us whowe are, and that you have to be
able to know what to change andknow what to evolve and what to
keep.
You know, I had a conversationwith our team yesterday and
(08:57):
we're going through a book cluband we basically picked a book
that we're reading and we'regoing to be discussing it with
the leadership team on a weeklybasis, and the book we chose is
Extreme Ownership by Jocko.
And so you know, we get thereyesterday and we're listening to
it and every part of me is likeman, I take extreme ownership,
(09:18):
I don't.
This is, I don't need this, I'mnot going to learn anything
from this, I'm doing this forthem.
But we get into it and you know, we're a chapter in and he's
talking about you know all ofthese different things and where
you need to take ownership andwhere you need to do this and
where you need to do that.
And you know I'm just writingnotes down as we go and we wrap
up the book.
And you know I'm sitting thereand I'm, and all these, all the
leaders, are talking, man, Icould be better there.
(09:39):
You know we're not doing this,we're not doing that, and I'm,
you know, listening and thinkingthe whole time and it really
hits me and it's like man, likeit is all your fault.
Right, the where we're at rightnow is all your fault.
Where we're not at is all yourfault.
And why?
(10:00):
Because I wanted to be furtherthan I was, and I think we all
probably experienced this atsome point.
Right, you want to get to thatnext level, but sometimes you're
not ready for that next level.
Sometimes you've got to bebetter at the level you're at
before you can even move forward.
(10:21):
Right, you know I would listento books and, again, mentors and
all these things.
And it's like man, meetings arepointless.
You can't have meetings and youknow you, you know it's just
sitting around wasting time andyou got to be hyper-focused on
the things that are going tocreate you the most leverage.
And you know there's all ofthese just inputs, and I think
that you know, the the thehigher you climb and the more
(10:44):
that you achieve, the moreopportunities there are.
They're more, you know, yourskill sets become better.
So there's all of thesedifferent things that you can
start to get into and I'verealized that, like, in order to
be great at anything, you haveto say no to so many things and
you have to focus, like hyperfocus, and you have to really
understand, like what you'rebest at Right, like hyper focus,
and you have to reallyunderstand, like what you're
(11:05):
best at Right.
I have, you know, wanted ourcompany to be at a hundred
million and doing all this scaleand, and you know, and so I
started trying to put myself ina place that I wasn't ready for.
You know, when I look back atthe company, I see that, like
where we're struggling at, youknow, we're struggling at the
things that I'm actually best atright.
(11:26):
The other night I'm sitting with, I was sitting with Leah and
you know, and again, it's been ahard year.
It's been, you know, I don'twant to say it's been a bad year
, right, and what is bad right,I think that you know, a lot of
times, we allow a bad moment tobecome a bad day, to become a
bad week, to become a bad month,to become a bad year.
(11:47):
Right, bad is just what it isin that moment and most of the
time, bad is just because theexpectations that you had didn't
get met.
Therefore, because you're sofocused on the future that
you're thinking about all ofthese things and you're actually
missing the moments that arehappening in front of you right
(12:09):
now, right, when I look at thecompany right now, you know I,
when I was sitting with Leahlast night or the other night,
um, you know, I told her I'mlike man, I'm, I'm, I'm having
this like identity crisis.
You know, when I look at where Iwas two years ago when I
started the business and I hadall these you know guys that
were, you know this culture guys, and like athletes and military
(12:31):
, and, like you know, I feltlike a great leader and I was
like bringing us together and,you know, people knew who we
were and we had a feel and wehad a look and it was like man.
I will, if you ask me, what issomething you're good at?
I said man, I'm good at cultureand leadership, and I look at
where we're at right now andit's that's our biggest weakness
, right, the biggest weakness wehave right now is the close
(12:53):
knit to culture, the leadership,right, all of the things that
I'm actually thought that I wasbest at, and so I sort of
questioned myself saying likedamn, am I even, am I even good
at these things anymore?
Am I even?
Was I ever good at it?
Right, was I just good atleading in good times versus
being able to lead in strugglesand bad times?
Right?
(13:15):
And so it's the lens that welook through and and and you
know, can you reframe it?
I look at where I thought thisseason was going to be and where
we're at and you know, and tome it's like it's a
disappointment, right, I'mfrustrated.
I'm irritated, I'm mad ateverybody else, but I'm not.
I'm not looking at myself.
You know, and I talked about inthe beginning, you know, I tried
(13:36):
to be further ahead, trying tobe someone you're not trying to,
you know, change the brand andchange who I am.
Because of why, right?
Right, we got to slow down andbe present and be in the moment
and realize that.
You know, you've got to getreally good at being you, not
(13:58):
trying to be somebody else, nottrying to be a $100 million CEO
when you're a $10 million CEO ora $5 million CEO or a $1
million CEO, right.
Until you can build the systemsand the processes and the
structures to know that you cando this thing at an elite level,
don't try to get to that nextlevel, right?
I stopped making content, reallybecause in my mind I'm like man
(14:21):
, I don't want to be the face.
I want to help to build otherpeople up.
I want to empower them.
I want them to be the face.
I don't want it to be all aboutme.
It's not the mic show, but Irealized that it was like that
was the thing that actuallyattracted the people, right?
I think that we we underestimateour ability and our skill.
Sets to the things thatactually become, that have
(14:42):
become, that come easy to us.
Right, there are things thatyou and I do that we are really
good at that don't take a lot ofenergy and effort and a lot of
times we don't do those thingsbecause we think that they're
not valuable, because they don'ttake a lot of our capacity, we
think that things have to betaxing and difficult and a
(15:04):
struggle to get through in orderfor it to be impactful.
And it's not the truth.
I find my flow state when I'mleading and coaching and doing
this, and so why would I want tonot do that?
Well, because I have mentorstelling me that that's not what
the people at the highest levelare doing.
They're not spending their timemaking content, and why would I
(15:27):
even listen to that?
I mean, their opinion isvaluable and I'm sure it's true,
maybe for them, but I'm notthem, you're not me, you're you
and I'm me Right.
And so what is it?
The things that get you excitedand make you happy and
realizing that you have to dothose things.
Again, I've tried to change thepodcast name and evolve and do
(15:51):
this and not be shooting becauseof why?
Because someone told me thatthat wasn't the thing that I
should be doing.
But if I look back and it waslike I can see when everything
shifted and changes when I quitdoing the things that I loved.
Right, I had them.
You know, don't spend.
You know your Mondays, youcan't, don't spend.
You know your Mondays, youcan't, don't spend hours on
coaching guys and training guys,and you know you got to be
(16:13):
getting leverage and you got tobe doing all these things and
it's like, yeah, but thosethings were actually the things
that made everything else better.
Right, we sat around the tablewith the leaders yesterday and,
and you know, and, and in mymind I'm like man, like we, we
used to do one-on-ones all thetime and now we're doing them
like once a month because wedon't need them, because we need
(16:33):
to be able to like, getleverage and grow, and we can't
be spending time, wasting timetalking, you know, and one of
the leaders said, yes, they saidwell, mike, you know, I can be
like going through it, thinkingabout all the things and like in
my head and you know thingsaren't going well, and then,
(16:54):
like, I have a conversation withyou and like I'm good, I'm good
for another few weeks, and ithit me because it's like, damn,
I've been a terrible leader.
Yeah, I can, I can.
You know, you can lead in goodtimes, when you're excited and
everything's flowing and it'seasy to have these conversations
.
But what's the kind of leaderthat you are when things aren't
(17:15):
that?
Are you willing to take thatownership?
Are you willing to to reflectand say, hey, you know, man
you're, you're, maybe you'redoing things the wrong way, man,
maybe you're doing things thewrong way.
And shooting this podcast todayis kind of like my you could say
the rebirth.
Right, it's me getting back tomy roots and coming back and
(17:39):
sharing things, and I have just,I've felt I have been insecure
of who I am or what I'm doingbecause of all of these things
that have just transpired thisyear, and I realized that so
much of it that has happened,that the thing that always kept
me grounded and, you know, infocus was the things that I
(18:00):
enjoyed to do, and that Ihaven't been doing any of those
things Right.
And so in your life, when yougo through these, you know Right
.
And so in your, in your life,when you go through these bad
seasons, what is it that youknow?
I think that's what's this,what makes it so important to
reflect, and you know, know whatmakes a day a great day and
then what makes a day not sogreat.
(18:20):
And then how can you just focuson doing more of those things
that make your days great?
You know, for me, if I had tothink, man, like, what's my, the
three things that make a greatday, I think one is the, you
know, moving at my pace, notfeeling rushed, not feeling like
I'm going here, I'm going thereand I'm just sporadic and I'm
(18:43):
just responding all the day andreacting Like I want to be able
to wake up, set the tone for myday, you know, read a little bit
and just be, be present, allright.
Then I like to get to theoffice and I like to have deep
conversations and see peoplehave that like aha moment that
you know, maybe something that Isaid like unlocked it for them,
right, and then and then I loveto just think about ideas and
(19:07):
expand on that and be able tobrainstorm, right, and have
those like human interactionsand relationships and
conversations throughout a day.
It's like those are the thingsthat pretty much make up a good
day for me.
And if I look back, it's like,dude, I haven't been doing any
of that.
I have been so focused onchanging me that I forgot me,
(19:36):
and for what reason, you know.
I think we all go through.
You have to sometimes.
I think the best thing that youcan do is to find yourself, is
to lose yourself, because whenyou're lost, you start to think
back of like, what was it thatmade me happy?
What was the things that mademe me?
(19:56):
What were those things?
Right over this past year Isaid we're coming back in the
year with six people that sevenpeople that were top people and
been here for two or three years.
And you know, because of peoplethat I put in positions, I, you
know we had conversations aboutme firing people and getting rid
of people and I went throughand I just cut, fired this
person and fired this person andfired this person because I'm
(20:17):
trying to empower and letsomebody else make these
decisions on my behalf.
Because the business because ifI listen to everybody, it's
like you're a visionary, you gotto be the vision, you got to
put somebody else in thisposition that can run the
business and it's like, dude,you're trying to be too far
ahead.
You let other people create theway that the business should be
(20:47):
.
When you are the business, ifyou're a CEO and you got to get
an operator and an integrator,and I think that because, so
that you can be focused on thosebig things that it's like make
sure that the person that youput in those situations thinks
like you, has the heart that youhave, has the care that you
have has the vision that youhave.
Don't feel forced into it, andthat was a move that I made, a
(21:12):
mistake that I made, but Irealize now, you know, if I look
at it and say, man, it's been abad year, why you know and I
can reframe it, you have to beable to reframe these things
that happen so that you can lookback and say why are they
happening?
Right, if I have to look backand say, you know, I have to
reframe it, I reframe it bysaying, you know, I'm going
(21:34):
through this thing because therewere things that I lacked.
Right, I needed to get back tothe roots.
I needed to get back to thethings that actually made me who
I am, in order for us toachieve that next level.
And so, although things havenot been great this year, I can
say, man, like, our marketingteam is better, man, our systems
(21:56):
and our processes are better.
Why?
Because when you've got a bunchof people and you're moving and
you're producing revenue andthings are rolling, it can hide
the holes in the business.
And so when things fall apart,that's when you become a true
leader, because when things fallapart, can you turn around and
get them back together and canyou know why they fell apart?
And I can honestly say that youknow, the things that I let go
(22:18):
control of are the things thattore us apart.
And so I think a big big thingif you can take something away
from this today, right is thatyou know, when you've got big
goals and you want to achievebig things, you've got to
understand there's going to belikewise big obstacles.
You've got to understandthere's going to be likewise big
(22:42):
obstacles.
But a lot of times we thinkthat, because we've got these
big goals and that we want toachieve them, that these goals
might take a long time toachieve.
They might take days or years,decades, but yet we think the
obstacles are going to beshort-lived.
We think these obstacles aregoing to be short-lived, right.
We think these obstacles aregoing to be things that you know
they shouldn't take so long toovercome.
(23:05):
But I think when you've got toovercome these obstacles, you
know you start to.
You have to be able to.
You know you can stay in thatvalley of despair as long as you
want.
Do you choose to stay there andsoak in it or do you choose to
(23:26):
evolve from it?
Who you become is evidence ofthe things that you have
overcome.
Most people don't overcomethings.
They get hit in the face withit and it's like, right, it's
something's hard, and they justchoose to not lean into the hard
(23:47):
and grow through the hard,because you know they think that
there's going to be an easierway, a better way, a faster way,
and then you realize that theonly way is the hard way.
So you've got to be able to getthrough these things, because
are you settling or or are youmoving mountains?
Because if you want to achievebig things and great things, you
got to understand there's goingto be some fucking dragons that
(24:08):
you got to slay, but know thatevery dragon you slay is a new
version of you.
And it's not about this iswhere I want to get back you.
And it's not about this iswhere I want to get back to.
Is that it's not about youevolving and changing who you
are?
Because there's something aboutyou that is specific, that
makes you who you are, and Ithink that it's determining what
(24:30):
that is and being able to growand evolve through that, but
staying true to that.
And so the Reckless CEO podcastis back for those who care and
maybe don't care, right.
People might not even realizethat I was not recording
anything.
I could care less, and it'sprobably a story that I've had
in my head that you know thatI've got to be something
(24:53):
different.
I got to change.
I can't be shooting on thispodcast Like it's just these
stories that we just make up andtell ourselves about ourselves
and this reality that we live in.
But I realize that it's like,why do I change something when
it's like it is irrelevant?
What's powerful is not the name.
(25:14):
What's powerful is the messagethat I want to share, and what's
powerful is that I'm not doingit for you, for anybody else,
I'm doing it for me, right?
I love being able to shoot apodcast and have a guest on and
talk to them and have the studioin here that I can pop in and
record on at any time, like Ilove to do that.
It doesn't matter the name ofit.
It doesn't matter if a mentorsays that I shouldn't be that.
(25:42):
It's like dude, it's irrelevant.
I don't care if a homeownerlooks up and sees that I have
the reckless CEO podcast.
Right, it's like you, you know.
I went out to an event lastweek and someone's like that's a
reckless CEO and I was likeembarrassed by it, ashamed, I
mean.
I don't know.
I mean that's how you I'm notdoing that anymore kind of thing
(26:02):
why what it's like you, justit's crazy.
It's crazy right, and that'sall I want to get on here today
and just share about, like Ijust it's just it, it's the.
You know embody who you are.
Don't try to change that, right, because there's something that
(26:27):
you do that's special, thatattracts people.
I'm not saying the podcast isthat for me, but what is for me
is my vulnerability to share andand allow people to experience
the things that I'm goingthrough.
And I think that when we bottlethat up and we don't let that
out we don't have a way to letthat out that we question
(26:49):
ourselves, question our purpose,the direction.
You know all of these things.
So I hope this was valuable.
I hope that know.
I hope that that this is cankind of loop you back in and you
know I'm going to get back toshit.
I've said it a bunch of timesbut it's like I didn't mean it.
You know I mean it today, right, I'm getting back into shooting
(27:10):
.
I'm going to be working ondoing a um like a 12-week series
.
If you will, right, we can callthis kind of episode one of the
you know, know the rebirth, the, the, the comeback right Of of
shooting again.
And then I'm going to walk youthrough, you know, over the next
12 weeks, really getting youknow in depth on kind of the
things that we have been goingthrough and experiencing as a
(27:32):
business, and you know what whathas happened and transpired.
You know how people have reachedout and said, like man, are you
guys still in bit?
Like I literally had someonesay to me the other day, like,
are you guys still in business?
Like I saw a lot of the guysthat you had like aren't there
anymore.
And it's like, man, yeah, we'restill in business, we're doing
great.
You know what I mean.
I mean we were, you know, we,we every year know I'm not
(27:57):
sharing as much, I'm not doingthe things that grew this thing
Right, and so, yes, I'm excitedto share the next few weeks of
just the direction we're going,the things that we're doing, and
I hope that you know theexperiences that I've gone
through can can help you bebecome a better leader or maybe
(28:18):
get through some of these timesand, you know, just use this as
a resource.
Reckless CEO out.
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