Cursed at 19: TRB #17 Chris Guzman

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Redeemed Backslider with your
host, kathy Chastain.
Christian-based psychotherapistand Redeemed Backslider.
This podcast is dedicated tothose who have wandered but are
ready to return to thelife-changing power of grace and
the freedom found in Jesus.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Hi, welcome to the Redeemed Backslider.
I'm your host, Kathy Chastain.
I am a Christian-basedpsychotherapist and I am a
Redeemed Backslider.
With me in the studio today isChris Guzman.
Chris is not a backslider and Iactually don't know a ton of

(00:43):
his story.
And I actually don't know a tonof his story.
But part of what we're tryingto do in this channel is to talk
about how people did come toknow the Lord and what their
journey was like before theyfound the Lord.
So as we go, we might hear moreof these stories, but I'm super
excited to hear Chris's storybecause, from what I understand,

(01:05):
is pretty miraculous.
So welcome to the studio, Chris.

Speaker 3 (01:09):
It's good to be here.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
Yeah, so tell me a little bit about your upbringing
.
Were you raised in church?
Were you?
Raised around church.

Speaker 3 (01:21):
I was raised, you could say, around church.
My grandmother actually went tomount zion for 30 plus years.
She was under brother battlesand winslow and then can't trial
there always seems to be agrandmother connection yes uh,

(01:41):
when kids are not raised inchurch yeah like it's.

Speaker 2 (01:45):
You know, that is just the power of prayer amen
it's incredible so she went tochurch there.
Did you?
Did you ever attend with her?

Speaker 3 (01:54):
I that I could recall , maybe like once or twice, and
being a five-year-old,six-year-old, it's just, I don
just remember it was boring.
I was just like I don't want tocome here again.
So she would invite us but,like I said, I would tell her no

(02:15):
, because as a kid you don'tlook at that kind of stuff until
you're older and you realize,man, what I missed.
Right opportunity that I missedum.
But my mother and my aunts theywere all raised and my uncle
was raised um in mount zion.
They weren't raised but theygot.
When my mother, grandmother,got in, they started going, but

(02:35):
my mother, when she was 14, ranaway from home and ever since
then she never went back to thehouse of the lord is your mom
still alive?
Yes.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
And she just has never wanted to go to church.

Speaker 3 (02:50):
No, but off of my testimony.
That really stirred her andGod's still doing the work in
her, of course, of course.
And you talk to my wife and melike when my wife first met my
mother.
She saw how she was.
My wife and me like when mywife first met my mother.
She saw how she was and thennow how she is.
It's a giant leapstone where mymom is now.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
Okay, well, you know, your mom is probably like the
rest of us who left church anddidn't want to go back.

Speaker 3 (03:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:21):
For all the reasons you know.
Sometimes it was things likeyou know, for girls it was all
the standards we didn't want todo.
All that, you know, and otherthings you know.
Church hurt and just other hurtthat we don't know how to deal
with.
Except, you know, try to findit in the world.
But yeah, I'm going to believewith you for your family.

Speaker 3 (03:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:44):
Because she knows enough, probably has had an
experience with oh yeah, andshe's seen the change in me yeah
, yeah, she can't deny, denythat at all yeah, so um, so tell
me about your life, like, whatwas life like for you before you
found the Lord?

Speaker 3 (04:04):
Well, my parents.
They did the best that theycould to provide for us and we
lived in the neighborhood.
That wasn't maybe the mostsafest growing up, but as a kid
you don't see that stuff.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
Did you have siblings ?

Speaker 3 (04:19):
Yes, I have four brothers and one sister.

Speaker 2 (04:22):
Were they older, younger?

Speaker 3 (04:24):
I'm the middle, so two older and two younger.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (04:27):
And growing up.
You know it's quite interestingseeing as you grow up.
You start seeing your closefriends, those that you were
raised by or with.
And you see, at some point youdon't know exactly when, but you
see at some point you don't.
You don't know exactly when,but you see at a point they
start picking, they startchoosing the path that they're

(04:50):
going to go down right and um, alot of my close friends that I
grew up with.
I seen they started going downcertain paths and me a lot of it
, a lot of them went to likecertain gangs and all that and
me, you know, I thank God thathe put it in my heart to not
have a desire to ever join agang.
It just wasn't.

(05:10):
I didn't have that desirebecause I guess it was wisdom
that he gave me at an early age.

Speaker 1 (05:16):
It was like I really knew.

Speaker 3 (05:17):
at the end of the day , the only one who was going to
be there was for my family, sowhy would I invest and do things
for a certain group that had nogood interest for me.

Speaker 2 (05:30):
So you already had a very um good family connection.
You.
You had like this, uh, um, thisfeeling that family was
important, because not all kids,not all kids grow up feeling
that kind of love for theirfamily, that kind of?
Um honor or respect and valuefor their family yeah, exactly

(05:51):
so you had that.

Speaker 3 (05:52):
That's that's good yeah, um, and it's quite.
I don't know if there's a.
I heard it from a study or what, but they say a lot of
individuals who end up joininglike a gang or a group usually
come from broken homes, and Icould attest by like 90 of my
friends that went down thatroute came from a broken home.

(06:13):
Either they didn't have afather or their home.
Both parents were just weredruggies and I seen that in like
real life.
That man, that that statisticor whoever said that study, is
absolutely true.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
Oh yeah, the fatherless.
If you look at the statisticsof the fatherless, it is
incredible and I really believe.
Like I was telling you before,the enemy is really after men
and boys, but it starts withboys.

Speaker 3 (06:43):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (06:44):
Between the ages of like 8 years old to 12 years old
and it's interesting, inbiblical times, at 12 years old
they had the bar mitzvah andthey moved from childhood into
adulthood at 12.
So think about our kiddos atage 12.
Some of those paths are alreadyset.

(07:06):
We really got to reach them atan earlier age.
So sorry to go off on that?
No, no, no, that's interestingI just have a real burden for
that.

Speaker 3 (07:16):
Yeah.
So as I grew up, I started likeI said, I didn't want to be
part of a gang but I hung outwith them a lot because all my
friends were involved in that.
So other rival gangs would seeme with them and they would
think that I was a.
I was a part of that gang,which I wasn't.
But you know, at the end of theday, you know, you got to stand

(07:38):
your ground and, um, in highschool I started getting into
fights and my mom was just likeno, I already, I already know
what path you're going down.
I'm gonna pull you out and putyou in independent studies
because I don't want you to getdeeper into that.
So she did that.
I was mad.
You know, all my friends werethere at public school and I

(07:58):
basically she secluded me but westill hung out and all that
were you getting in fights todefend yourself or were you?

Speaker 2 (08:07):
were you angry?
Were you getting in fights ofyour own volition?

Speaker 3 (08:10):
uh, it was mainly like, I guess both.
Because you know, as a, as aman, you have that pride.
So if I see some, if I saw anindividual like mugging me or
like you know, trying tointimidate me, then I'd be like,
okay, well, I'm not gonna letindividual take advantage of me

(08:31):
or punk me.
So that's what it was mainlyjust pride okay and um.
So my mom, um, my mom took meout because at that time the
school was trying to profile meas a, as a gang member.
My mom was like no, he's not,he's not involved in that.
So she pulled me out and youknow, honestly, it helped me.

(08:52):
You know, I mean I missed, Imissed opportunity to graduate
at the bowl and all that, like Ireally was bummed about that,
but at the end of the day, Ithink it helped me a lot.

Speaker 2 (09:04):
I'm getting more deeper and involved in certain
things like that what, uh whatgrade did you get pulled out of
high school?

Speaker 3 (09:11):
it was my sophomore year.
Okay, the first semester I gotpulled out so you homeschooled
basically yeah yeah, charterschool yeah, basically did that
and, um, you know, as a kid likegrowing up in that neighborhood
I saw a lot of things and likewhat well like.
I've seen individuals like gunspulled out and shot at.

(09:33):
I've seen the individual stabsbefore and you know, as a kid 14
years old you see that stuff.
It doesn't ever leave your mind.
And now, as a parent, I do myvery best to.
You know, I don't want toshield my kids from everything,
because life's going to happenand I want them to be able to

(09:54):
know what to do when certainsituations come up.
But if I could do my very bestat protecting them at certain
things that they shouldn't needto see or they shouldn't need
experience, then that's what I'mgonna try to do so watching all
that kind of violence.

Speaker 2 (10:12):
What do you think that did to?

Speaker 3 (10:13):
you, um, it just kind of made me numb to it, okay.
So we're like it was just anormal thing, like um.
Other people might be like ohman, I see you know that they
get really emotional seeing byand stuff like that, and at
first I did too in a way.
But as the more I saw, you knowyou just grow numb to it, like

(10:36):
that's just a normal it's normaljust to see something like that
okay um.
But as I grew, or, you know, asI got older, you know, started
um.
At 14 I started doing drugs andwhat kind of drugs?
I started off with justmarijuana and as I got older I

(10:57):
got into doing cocaine, umpainkillers and basically it's
kind of a form of ecstasy juststarted doing messing around
with that kind of stuff chris,were you um like when you're,
when you're 14?

Speaker 2 (11:15):
where did your first marijuana hit come from?
Like, how did how did that doorget open for you?

Speaker 3 (11:22):
um, it was, it was.
It sounds kind of childish nowthat I'm older, but my
girlfriend at that time, um,just, you know someone that I
cared about you know, it was myfirst high school sweetheart, I
guess and she had done somethingto me and basically she had
cheated on me.
I was just like, oh man, forgetthat.

(11:44):
Like you know, I brought, endedit with her and I was just kind
of like, and you know what, I'mjust gonna do something to kind
of like numb this hurt.
So I already had been drinking,um, but I really didn't care
for drinking, I just did it,just for the head change.
And so that's when my otherolder friends they would do that
all the time when they wouldinvite me, and I was like, nah,

(12:04):
I'm okay, I don't want to dothat, and but that day I was
like you know what, I'm gonnatry it so I did it and you know,
as, just as a human being, Iliked it and I just kept doing
it after that were you a guythat always had a girlfriend?

Speaker 2 (12:18):
were you that because you know there are?
Some people that are justgirlfriend kind of guys and
other girls that are boyfriendkind of, yeah.
Like they just always have aboyfriend or girlfriend.

Speaker 3 (12:28):
Um, I don't think so.
I always, you know, I alwayshad like a girl that I would be
talking to, though Like I neverreally got, because I know when
you have a boyfriend orgirlfriend I was, even though,
as a, a man like I was raised tobe if you're going to do
something, do it.
So if I was going to have agirlfriend, I was going to be

(12:50):
faithful to her, okay.
So my thing was like I didn'twant to be faithful, so I
wouldn't even get considersomeone my girlfriend, I would
just talk to just differentgirls that way I had that,
didn't feel guilty of doing thatbut this girl was your
girlfriend this girl was mygirlfriend.

Speaker 2 (13:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay yeah, so that opened the
door for your heart to get hurt,to just want to seek out some
comfort through marijuana?

Speaker 3 (13:14):
yeah, and that opened .
I don't care what everyone says.
Like they say oh, you couldjust stick to doing marijuana.
Like you, you don't ever moveon to other things.
I could believe it at first,but as I got older I was like no
, it's a gateway like it's just.
It's just the first, I guessthe first door that gets open
right to other things.

Speaker 2 (13:34):
So yeah, well, because I think you know, I
think from the spirit realm, orfrom you know our type of
language in christianity there'sa justification the minute that
you justify doing somethingthat you know you shouldn't like
smoking pot the nextjustification is so much easier

(13:56):
yeah you know.
And so when we talk aboutopening doors or the gateway,
you know people out there willargue that it's not a gateway
drug.
But they don't quite understand, I don't think, the shift that
happens mentally in our psycheto where we let down our
defenses and we start acceptingthings that we wouldn't normally

(14:20):
accept.
You know, when we're taughtwhat's right and wrong, normally
accept.
You know when, when we'retaught what's right and wrong,
yeah, so, um, okay, so marijuanaled you to.
Cocaine was next yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:30):
So I started doing other things and as I got older,
um, you know, I felt badbecause my mom and my dad you
know they didn't, they didn'treally teach us about god, but
you could tell my mom was likeher heart was broken that I was
going down this path because herbrother, which was my uncle, he
went down the same path and heended up becoming addicted to

(14:54):
meth and he would.
He basically would hurt my momand her, my grandparents, which
would be my mom, you know their,their mother.
He would go steal from mom, hewould burn them all the time and
I think she was justheartbroken that and hoping that
I wouldn't go down that path orshe couldn't trust me like how

(15:14):
my grandmother couldn't trust myuncle and I told her.
I said no, I won't, I won't everdo, I won't ever do meth, which
I never did because I saw theimpact that it did to my family.
So that was, that was a no-nofor me, like I won't ever go
that far and I didn't.
What now to say if I never?

Speaker 1 (15:41):
lived for God.

Speaker 3 (15:42):
I wouldn't have.
I can't say that.
And I ended up my.
What led me to God was at 19 Igot with a girl and you know I
it was just something differentabout her and as we started

(16:03):
dating, um, I started to havelike more stronger feelings for
her, which really was weird forme because I normally didn't get
that way with a girl right away.
It would take some time and allthe like things got.
You know, we started havingarguments just like any typical
relationship and then she endedup breaking up with me and I was

(16:27):
just like man.
That's weird.
Usually it's the other wayaround.
And it was weird because I hadpeople don't realize, like you
said earlier, like drugs To me.
I believe they're linked to thespirit realm linked to the
supernatural.
That's what I believe, and Ialready had gone.

(16:48):
I I knew the, I guess, theenvironment of what each drug
did, like what it brought as Idid it, so I grew familiar to it
, but okay I'm.

Speaker 2 (17:00):
I want to interrupt really quick.
So when you say that, do youfeel like you were kind of aware
?
I know this probably sounds sosimplistic, but when I heard you
say that right now, what Iimagined is that as you did a
different drug, you were almostobjectively looking at and

(17:21):
becoming aware of how it waschanging you.
Because some people they justdo drugs and they're just in it
for the moment and in it forwhat they get out of it.
They're not totally haveinterpersonal awareness of
what's happening in them orthrough them because of the drug
, but it sounds like you didyeah, so you you had some in

(17:43):
awareness.

Speaker 3 (17:44):
Yeah, it's kind of how can I explain it?

Speaker 1 (17:48):
Yeah, spiritual, and that was God.

Speaker 3 (17:49):
Yeah, it was spiritual.
I knew already, being familiarwith how the high or the
environment was going to changearound me once I did it.
I already knew what to expect.
But as I started doing thesedrugs again, it was something
different and I was just likewhat?
What's going on like?

(18:10):
Is it the drugs or what's likesomething changed?
it was like when you're withthis girl well, after she, we
had broken up and like andsomething had changed, I said
what?
There's something going on.
And, um, I started to seethings and normally, you, I
would see things when I would be, you know, on substance but it
was just a different type ofdarkness.

(18:32):
I was starting to see, I wasjust like what's going on here,
like there's something different, like what did I get a bad
batch of something or or what?
But?
But a voice in my head kepttelling me you're cursed, you're
cursed, you're cursed.

Speaker 2 (18:46):
And I was just like what the hell is going on, so
you would hear that, yes, thatyou were cursed.

Speaker 3 (18:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:52):
And before this girl?
Were you aware of thesupernatural realm?
Did you have any kind ofawareness?

Speaker 3 (19:02):
Did you have dreams or nightmares or ever felt like
evil presence from a kid?

Speaker 2 (19:08):
yeah, okay okay, we'll come back to that okay
because there is link.
I mean it's.
It's very interesting yeah.

Speaker 3 (19:16):
So, um, it was just different and I, honestly, I
started losing my mind.
I was like, what is going on?
I'm just losing it.
I felt really, really paranoid.
Everyone was out to get me andit was just something different.
I said you know what?
I'm going to stop doing thedrugs and I'm going to see if

(19:36):
it's the drugs that are causingme to be this way.
And I stopped for I'm going tosay like three weeks, and it
just kept getting worse whatwere you experiencing?

Speaker 2 (19:45):
can you walk me through what a typical day was
like?

Speaker 3 (19:48):
um well, I was noticing like I was experiencing
, like I couldn't trust nobody.
I felt like everybody was outto get me and I kept seeing
things and what do you mean?
you were seeing things like Iwould see at night time.
It would only be at night time.
I would see the outline.
It looked like a I guess wewould call an angel and but it

(20:09):
had wings and would be a body ofa man.
But it had wings and the spiritwould just hover over me at
night and just stand therewatching me, like tormenting me.
It didn't let me go to sleep.
Every time I'd fall asleep Iwould get poked or it would pull
my leg or pull my hand and wakeme up.
And it was just.
It would just put thoughts inmy head.

(20:30):
All you need, you just need tokill yourself.
You're not going to get better.

Speaker 2 (20:34):
Um, this is the way you're going to be, and you
directly associated that, allthose things, with what you saw.
Uh, that angel with the wingsyeah, that was hovering, so
that's.
I mean it's not awesome, butit's awesome that you could
understand the correlation, thatthat presence.
You had the ability to see thepresence.

(20:55):
But everything that you'vedescribed I have heard from
other people They've beenpunched in sleep, scratched in
sleep they fought.
I mean, I had one person who hadbloody knuckles from a physical
fight in sleep where they werefighting against a demonic
presence, but but you could hearit speak and you and there was

(21:16):
just always that presence thatwas visible for you yeah, it was
there for almost every night,so to where I had to sleep
during the day, and it's.

Speaker 3 (21:26):
You know, the bible says that the light, the
darkness, can't comprehend thelight or vice versa, something
like that, but how I had tosleep in the daytime in order
for it not to bother me, and youknow it's kind of hard because
at that time it's pretty it'samazing.
What God does is that, whenthat happened to me and I

(21:46):
started going like losing itcompletely, to where I had to
quit my job because my wife ormy mom was just like no, I don't
want you to end up likeshooting the place up or doing
something because you're hearingthese voices and they're not
true.
So she's like you need to quityour job.
So I quit my job and I justcompletely dissociated with all
my friends Because, like I said,I didn't trust nobody.

(22:09):
I was like man.
What if this is coming from oneof them who I thought were my
friends?
I didn't know who was comingand who had done that to me.

Speaker 2 (22:18):
Did you feel like someone had actually done
something to you to cause thisto happen?

Speaker 3 (22:23):
Yeah so were you aware already that it was
witchcraft I kind of had it washappening in the spirit room.
Yeah, I kind of had a feelinglike I guess it was a god thing
or something told yeah, becauseyou had a already a supernatural
awareness of discernment yeah,just something told me that it
was something.
Someone had did something to mebecause, like I said, I had done

(22:44):
drugs for years and I alreadyhad grew aware of what to expect
.
But this was just completely adifferent ball game.
And so I, when I dissociatedwith all my friends, two weeks
later I found out that they allgot arrested for home invasion

(23:05):
and I was just like man, likewhat, what my life would have
been because they had I thinkthey did a year and a half, two
years in jail and I was like man, like my life would have been
completely different.
Uh, you know, that would havetotally changed the direction of
my, of my life.
So, just two weeks after thathappened and and I was trying, I

(23:28):
kept telling my mom, I was likeI don't know why, but I feel
like I'm crazy.
I was like what's going on withyou?
What's wrong with you?
This isn't you.
And I was like I don't know, Ican't tell you all.
I feel like someone didwitchcraft on me and you know
had you been around.

Speaker 2 (23:44):
I mean, for a 19 year old to even think about that.
I don't think that's verycommon.
It might be now becausewitchcraft is on the rise yeah
but like had you been exposed topeople who had meddled in
witchcraft?
Had you been around it to knowthat it was a thing like?
How did you put those piecestogether to come to believe

(24:09):
someone might have donewitchcraft on you?

Speaker 3 (24:12):
honestly I don't.
I can't really give a solidanswer to that, but I know, like
my, my dad's from mexico, so Ithink the environment over there
I think that's one of thenumber one things is witchcraft
to do.

Speaker 2 (24:29):
So you were aware of what witchcraft was.

Speaker 3 (24:32):
Yeah, I just didn't realize the effects and how real
it was.

Speaker 2 (24:37):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (24:38):
But my best friend at that time, his family, they're
really big drug dealers and hismom would meddle in with card
reading and you know I neverreally got into it, but he would
tell me that they would do thatand there'd be times I would go
over and they would have thecards out on the table and I

(25:01):
know his uncle.
I think honestly now that Ithink back about it like it's
crazy.
You look back at your past andyou're like man.
That's what that meant, youknow what I mean.
And I really believe his uncle.
I don't know if, honestly, Ithink he was involved either as
a warlock or a sorcerer.
He was involved in somethingand I think, being around my

(25:22):
friend and his family, thatprobably also helped me be aware
of the supernatural as well?

Speaker 2 (25:28):
Yes, yes.
So when your friends all gotarrested for home invasion, did
that make you think, oh, maybeit's not them?
Did it relieve the thought thatyour friends had done this to
you?
Or you were just thinking that,oh that I dodged a bullet?

Speaker 3 (25:48):
there?
Um, well, I was.
Maybe I just dodged a bulletbecause I knew like I didn't
know really deep things aboutwitchcraft, but I knew if they
did a spell that it's gonna bethere, and they just had to do
it once you know what I mean andum.
So I kept telling my mom, andmom was like nah, I don't know,
I don't know.
And she finally so my dad'sfrom mexico, right, and I don't

(26:12):
know if it's for every cultureor if it's just for certain, but
in their culture they have ablack witch, which is the ones
who work for the devil and thenthey have a white witch, which
is a witch doctor who supposedlyfights against the evil yeah,
but to me it's all witchcraft itis all witchcraft and so, uh, I

(26:33):
didn't know that at the time.
Like I said, like I'm 19 yearsold.
So what they do is they sendthat witch a picture of me and
the world.
Who's a witch doctor?

Speaker 2 (26:44):
and so your dad did this.
Your dad sent it to his familyin mexico.

Speaker 3 (26:48):
My dad didn't want it , but my mom's like you need to,
you need to do something.
Like, even though my mom knewgod, like my mom was just I
think she was just desperatefrom not losing me because, yeah
, there was instance where itwas just chaotic at my house and
could you?

Speaker 2 (27:04):
could you describe that a little bit in more detail
?

Speaker 3 (27:08):
uh, I would just like see things like.
I'll just see so much likedemonic things and because
people, chris, are seeingdemonic stuff.

Speaker 2 (27:17):
I've had, I've had little boys tell me that they've
seen a bigger than life spidercrawl up their wall into a vent.
They've seen half of a womanstanding in a doorway.
They've seen people at theirfront.
Kiddos and adults are seeingthings in the demonic realm.

(27:39):
They are being attacked, theyare being raped being attacked.

Speaker 3 (27:48):
They are being raped.

Speaker 2 (27:49):
I mean there's there's crazy stuff that is very
real for people that we haveprotection around because we
have the blood of jesus yeah,you know but but people out
there, and even any backslidersor or christians who, who might
be experiencing this and may noteven know what it is or why
it's happening.
I think what you share isimportant.

(28:10):
Somebody will, somebody willneed to hear it.

Speaker 3 (28:13):
It would be.
It would be just like differentchaos, like really like mainly
it was like animal, like animalforms, and there it was a lot.
There'd just be a cloud of themand they're just a cloud of
them, it's just like so say inthis room, like if I'm talking
to you, it'd be like just like awhole group of them just

(28:35):
surrounding the room and justalmost waiting to pounce.
Yeah, waiting to pounce on mebig, putting like tremendous
fear in me and you could see allthat.

Speaker 2 (28:44):
Yes, and was it birds ?
Was it wolves Like?
Was it dogs?
What was it?

Speaker 3 (28:49):
It was just a mix of just different animals that I
could really like.
What God would show me a lot oftimes would just be the outline
of them.

Speaker 2 (28:58):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (28:58):
Like a black figure.

Speaker 2 (29:00):
It was very rarely where I saw the whole um, I
guess, description of them okay,and just more of an awareness,
because you can see the, theoutlines of them and um.

Speaker 3 (29:13):
So they were just like basically putting
tremendous fear in me and my momwould like, I would just like
go, and it's sad to say it now,but I would just go like kind of
like, um, kind of like notseizure mode, but just like I
would just be so scared I wasjust I couldn't stop shaking and
I'll just be like they're rightthere, they're right there.

(29:33):
I was like, where are they at?
I said they're right there, youdon't see them.
And she was just like you knowshe was.
My dad was supposed.
You know, my dad is a catholic,so she got holy water and we
know that there's no power inthat.
So she would go and throw waterat the area where I would tell
her at and I would overhear,after everything was settled and

(29:55):
all that, I would overhear mysiblings telling my mom like, oh
, when is he going to get backto normal?
We're tired of him being thisway.
They didn't understand and Ihold nothing against them, and
the family members were tryingto convince my mom to put me in
a mental asylum and just say,hey, like the drugs fried his

(30:18):
brain, he's no longer.
You know the Chris that youonce knew.
Like you just need to put himsomewhere so he could get help,
you know, by medication orwhatever.
But I thank God that my mom hadJesus still in her and say like
no, I'm going to fight for myson.

(30:41):
I know God can do it.

Speaker 2 (30:43):
So they sent your picture to.

Speaker 3 (30:45):
To this witch doctor and they came back and they said
that who did it was a girl Ihad dated.
They described the exactdescription of the girl that I
had dated.

Speaker 2 (30:58):
And they said what about her?

Speaker 3 (31:00):
That she had put a curse or a spell on me or a
curse, and that the way she gotit to make it it, she was doing
it through a picture of mine andshe fed me some food, which she
did.
So like I kind of didn't scaryand I got you know.
I mean, like I think they knewthat I wouldn't believe it, so

(31:20):
like they and they, that whitewitch told um my mom and dad
that she knew that I wasn'tgonna believe that she, that
what she saw, that she couldbasically like read what was
going on in my life.
So she told uh, my parents likehow he's gonna know that this
is real?
Is that she told them that shetold my parents that the drugs I

(31:42):
was involved in because theydidn't know my mom thought I was
just smoking weed, she didn'tknow I was doing all these other
things.
And like she told me, like areyou doing all this stuff, this,
and that you need time withtruth?
And I was like I know I wasgonna break her heart.
I was like, yeah, I, I am, Iwas messing around with that.
So that's how she was able toconvince me that that witch

(32:05):
doctor that what she could seewas real and I was like, okay,
well, she knew that about me andshe don't know me.
She's a.
She's in a different country youknow, she's able to see all
that, and so they gave my momand dad like a procedure that I
had to do.
I think it was for a week andlike a ritual basically a ritual

(32:30):
, and she said it was gonna.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
That was the only way to break the curse and so your
ex-girlfriend fed you food thatgot into your system, and she
used a picture of you to thencurse you and do some spells
over you yeah, so I'm thinkingthere's so much there, we'll
unpack in a minute yeah.

Speaker 3 (32:53):
So anyways, they're like um, you gotta do this for
seven days and they made me.
They made so every, I think,twice a day, I had to take a
shower and at the end of takingthe shower, my dad had to blend
some herbs and spices in ablender and then I had to pour

(33:13):
that over me every time I gotout of the shower I think twice
a day.
And I was like this is kind ofweird, how is this going to help
me?
And so I did it, but theydidn't tell me that it was gonna
, they're, they're gonna breakthe spells, gonna be broken, I
think two days earlier.

(33:34):
Like she didn't give me thatinformation because I guess she
just wanted to.
I don't know why she didn't,but she did it.
So the luck, which I didn'tknow, was the last time me doing
it, but it was the last timefor me to do it.
And I remember I got out of theshower and I poured that little
spices over me and the way Icould hear your voice and the

(33:59):
way you could hear my voice, Iheard the most demonic and
feminine scream I've ever heardin my life.

Speaker 1 (34:04):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (34:06):
And when I heard that , I felt like a sharp pain in my
chest and I was just like whatthe world was that and all of a
sudden I just started breakingdown and sweat Like I couldn't
stop sweating.
I just took in a cold showerand I was by the time I got to
the door I was just drenched insweat and my mom and dad just
started walking in.

(34:26):
They came back, I think, fromgrocery shopping, and I came out
and she's like what's wrongwith you?
Why are you so sweaty?
And I was just like I told herwhat I heard and then, I think
an hour later they called andthey said that, um, that they
had that.
That was the last time thatthey did something there over
there in mexico.

(34:46):
That was the final type of, Iguess, ritual to break that
spell and she told my mom and mydad.
she said whoever did this to him, they're gonna want to see him
again because the spell's beenbroken and they're gonna want to
see him again, right, right, oh, I got goosebumps and I was
like she's some moms like, don't, they're gonna want to.

(35:07):
So my mom was like, don't,they're going to want to see you
again?
So, whatever, you don't go andsee them.
And it was funny because myex-girlfriend and I tried to
hang out with her maybe like afew weeks earlier and this was
before I knew what she had did,and she was like no, I'm too
busy this.
And that I was like all right,whatever, um, but then all of a

(35:29):
sudden that day I get a textwhich is hey, I'm in, I'm on
your side of town, can I comepick you up and see you?
And I wish I could say I didn'tgo, but I did.
I was like, okay, I'll go hangout with you, even though I knew
what she had done to me.
But I was like you know what,I'm gonna show her that you know
what, I'm no longer scared ofwhat she did to me, that what
she did to me, whatever herintentions were, didn't break me

(35:52):
, you know, I mean, I'm stillhere did you confront her?
no, I didn't.
No, I should have.
But in a way I kind of wasstill scared in a way, because I
was like, well, what if shedoes something else to me, like
if I got her angry, you know?
So that I still had a littlebit of fear towards that because
I knew how real it was.

(36:12):
When I heard that voice, yeah,and I was like and it's crazy,
because her, I remember she'ssaying her mother was a cop for
the reservation over there inlamore.
So I'm like I wonder if shelearned it from over there
somehow, because she was thewhite.
It's quite fascinating.

(36:32):
That was not fascinating, but Ilearned a lot of how kind of
witchcraft works through thatexperience and that I guess the
witch doctor she said she saidwhoever she learned the spell
from is who the who I'm battlingwith.
It's not her, it's who taughther how to do the spell and
that's who I'm battling with.

(36:53):
And I believe that's the screamthat I heard.
Yeah, that day yeah it's nothers, but was whoever mentored
her and showing her how to do it.

Speaker 2 (37:03):
Um, so we, I saw her, and you know it was just a
casual conversation and justcaught up, and then that was the
last time I saw her so I youknow, I think about um, what um
ethan logston had said when hegot into witchcraft part of his
ritual was to take a shower, andwe talked about the symbolic

(37:28):
significance of washing, whichis representative of baptism
yeah right, but it's sointeresting how the demonic
world uses that as well yeah umin in all of that and so um, oh,
you said something I wanted toaddress.

(37:48):
Do you know much about soul ties?
I haven't talked about it muchon the podcast.
I've heard some stuff about it.
Yeah, so a soul tie, you knowthe.
Bible says that we become onewhen we have intercourse,
fornication or adultery.
We become one with we when wehave intercourse fornication or

(38:08):
adultery we become one with thatperson and um in the psychology
world it'd be called a traumabond so um.
So it's basically an emotionalbond.
Your soul is your mind, yourwill and your emotions, but I I
think that in the spirit realmthere is a joining together of

(38:30):
the spirit that causes us tobecome one.
So once fornication takes place, there is like a connectedness
in ways that you know, I thinkthe average person probably
doesn't get.
But I learned this through anexperience I had with a client

(38:51):
and saw something manifest whenwe just you know to break a soul
tie.
Basically is a simple littleprayer you send that person's
soul tie back, you call yoursback, you ask God to forgive you
.
You know, it's just arenunciation prayer and, just
you know, a prayer to break that.

(39:11):
But what?
What was interesting is that?
Um, one thing that we noticewhen we, when you break a soul
tie, is there is an immediatereaching out again, because they
feel in the spirit realm ofdisconnectedness from you and
they are wanting to reach outand try to reconnect, to just

(39:36):
check, to see, to find out,because people can be very
spiritually aware withoutunderstanding and then there are
people that are veryspiritually aware with a lot of
understanding, like like thiswas um, but I'd also been told
as a therapist not to take giftsand not to, you know, not to

(39:58):
take anything, because we justnever know what people do so
when you said she fed you somefood, I thought, well, that is
the best reason for us to prayover our food.
You know, I bet you come awayfrom this experience really
having a deeper meaning andunderstanding of what we do as

(40:19):
Christians right Praying overour meals, asking God to bless
it.
So, what do you think?
What do you think how do youthink this experience you walked
through has helped youunderstand spiritual warfare and
your christian walk with god?
We'll get to how you found god,but how do you think what you

(40:41):
experienced helped you tounderstand in a deeper level how
powerful spells are?
What does that mean aboutprayer?

Speaker 3 (40:50):
um, I think, because my experience was like I was
someone who didn't very, whoknew very little about god, if
anything about god, and I feellike the enemy likes to do all
this stuff to individuals andthey don't.
Either they don't know God atall or they know very little
about God and he puts this fearin them that he's all-powerful,

(41:16):
like there's no therapy oranything that can help them in
this situation.

Speaker 2 (41:21):
Right spiritual issue .

Speaker 3 (41:23):
Yeah, and I felt through this experience, god has
allowed me to come acrossindividuals that are battling
with certain things and I'm ableto relate to them because I
once was there.
And I tell them look what Goddid in my life and I'm no one
special, he loves everybody, heloves each one of us and I

(41:47):
encourage him like you can getthrough this, god can help you
through this, but you know it'sonly going to be a God thing.
I tell him because you knowlater on, as I get on, how I
found God, like I realized it'sonly a God thing and like how
spiritual warfare and me wouldit help me with that is that the

(42:10):
devil ain't going to go afteran individual that he doesn't
feel threatened by.

Speaker 2 (42:15):
Right, because he knows your purpose at the end.

Speaker 3 (42:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
He knows what God called you to.

Speaker 3 (42:20):
And we could get into that, because I believe me
personally, I feel like in eachone of our lives, god has had
his fingerprint, without youknowing it or not, right?
And as I'm getting older, I seeit.
For instance, when I was infourth grade, I can remember the

(42:41):
exact school and the exactclassroom I was in and a voice
just spoke in my head and saidyou're going to do something
great in this world.
And I was like like, and as anine-year-old, I'm just like, oh
man, like I'm gonna be anentrepreneur, I'm gonna make all
this money, I'm gonna be ableto give back to my community,
I'll be able to help others.
And I was like, oh well, maybeI'm gonna be a professional

(43:01):
boxer and I'm like world win,world championships and I'm
gonna be able to bless otherindividuals.
And little did I know that thatwas not the not.
That's what not was going tohappen.
It was going to be somethingdealing with the god's kingdom
yeah and it's.
It's amazing how god works,because now where I work out
like I, I came across.
I go to that school sometimesand when I go to that school

(43:22):
that classroom's still there andI look back at it.
I was like man, like cameacross.
I go to that school sometimesand when I go to that school
that classroom's still there andI look back at it.
I was like man, like little didI know that.
That's the first time I heardthe voice of god yeah, but yeah,
you know, I didn't know it atthat time right and how god just
comes back and works in circlesit's just amazing yeah and.
But I truly believe that we allhave fingerprints of god

(43:46):
working in our lives and we justdon't know until we get older
or we go through a situation andrealize, man, God was with me
at that time.

Speaker 2 (43:55):
I think I want to pause and say for anyone
watching about spiritual warfareand witches, white witches,
black witches I think we talkabout it a little bit in our
culture, but, um, the gifts ofgod, um are found in the book of

(44:18):
first corinthians, chapter 12,and chapter 14, bookend by first
corinthians, 13, on the chapterof love.
But the Bible says that thegifts and callings of God are
without repentance.
So, just as Chris was born intothis world for a purpose, with
a purpose not understanding whoGod has created him to be as a

(44:41):
kid, but he is recognizing thatas an adult there are people
that are born with the gifts ofgod's spirit in them that are
able to operate in thesupernatural.
And if they were not raised inchurch or raised around god or
raised to know the lord, theenemy always tries to steal that

(45:08):
gift and use it for his kingdom.
So when you go to a psychic,when you go dabble in witchcraft
and you get around any of thosesupernatural things, it is very
real.
But the source that is speakingto those people is not god, um,

(45:28):
because god's, because when godspeaks um, it produces the fruit
of the spirit, which isgalatians 5 and 22, and it.
It brings um, it brings life,and so I just wanted to sort of
give that caveat.
Um, because the spirit realm isvery active.

(45:50):
There is a ton of of demonicactivity and witchcraft, and I
think, as christians, we have tobe aware of the devil's devices
and how he works against us,because it's happening every
place.
We just don't always know um.
So if you are out there and youhave ever went to any of those

(46:11):
places, I would renounce it, askgod to forgive you and and ask
god to close those doors thatwere open, because it does
create an access point.
But that's what spiritualwarfare is all about.
It is the fight between theheavenly and the demonic, and

(46:31):
that battle has existed since.
Genesis 1, before Genesis 1,when Satan was cast out of
heaven.
So sorry, go on.

Speaker 3 (46:45):
But, like you said, even if it's a white, she was a
witch doctor.
Even though she was, in a way,trying to do good, it's still
witchcraft.

Speaker 2 (46:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (46:54):
Because even after that had happened to me, I still
, I still, I still was seeingthings, I still was having these
thoughts, I still was losing mymind, things, I still was
having these thoughts, I stillwas losing my mind.
So it did help a little bit.
But that's when I realized letme back up before that the

(47:15):
reason why I saw my, I went backand I actually saw my
ex-girlfriend was because I waslike you know what she's doing
witchcraft on me.
I'm like I'm gonna go evendeeper than that, I'm gonna do
something even higher level thanher.
So I started looking intoalchemy oh, you did I started
looking into alchemy.
I started studying it andreading it because I was like,
what's something I'm good at,which was I was good at math and

(47:37):
I was good at chemistry?
I said well, alchemy, to meit's a form of witchcraft.
Alchemy- yeah, yeah and it dealswith, you know, chemistry and
geometry and um.
So I started getting deepinvolved in that.
I was like I'm gonna do it backto her, but I'm gonna do it at
a higher level.
And then, the more I got deeperinto it, the more I realized,

(47:58):
the more I guess, in a way, Iwas um, getting further away
from god.
I was like you, what?
This isn't the answer, this, Idon't want to go down this path
because I feel like if I go downthis rabbit hole, I don't know
if I'm going to come back out ofit.
So I stopped and that's when Istarted listening to.

(48:18):
Well, before I started listeningto, like, christian stuff, um,
I still was.
I was still having thosebattles with my mind and, um,
seeing things at night.
And I remember I got to a pointin my life where I was just
like you know what, like I'mjust going to call it, I'm just
going to check out, and I'vebeen battling with this for

(48:39):
months and I thought it wasgoing to get better after that,
and it didn't, it's just thesame.
Was going to get better afterthat and it didn't, it's just
the same.
And I remember the day, um, myeverybody was gone.
But my sister and she's a shewas a teenager at that time, so
she was just do teenager thingsin her room, locked up in her
room.
I was like no one's here, mysister ain't gonna bother me,

(49:01):
and she never has once ever cameto my room and I said you know
what, I'm sorry, but you know Iwas, you know my mom and I
weren't there.
But I was kind of just speakingout loud like I'm sorry, mom and
dad, like I love you, but, um,I don't want to be a burden to
you, no more, I'm just going tocheck out.
And I sat on my bed and I hadthe knife to my wrist and how

(49:26):
and right when I was about to doit, my sister walked in and she
said she said, hey, what areyou doing?
I said nothing, what would youneed?
And she said all night I'mchecking in on you.
And before she left she said,hey, and just don't do anything
that you would regret.
And and I was just like whatthe you know I was just shocked,

(49:50):
you know.
And when she said that I waslike.
You know what God is real.

Speaker 2 (49:57):
Had you had an introduction with him before
that?

Speaker 3 (50:02):
I did a little bit, you know, but just by what my
mom would say.
She would read passages ofscripture over me some of the
times when I was having episodesand so after that I was like
you know what Like God is realand why am I going to let this

(50:22):
win?
You know what I mean.
I need to fight and fight untilthe very end.
So I started reading the bibleand started reading scripture
and asking questions to my aunt,who my aunt goes to brother
karen trials church in hanfordand um.
So I started asking questionsand she started um, she said you

(50:45):
know what you know likebreaking it down for me, the
scriptures, and at that time Ididn't know exactly what the
nomination I wanted to beinvolved in.
I know my dad was Catholic andmy mom was raised Pentecost, so
I was going back and forth tothe Catholic church to Pentecost

(51:07):
and I think what really helpedme made my decision was, I
remember I got fed up with thosespirits attacking me and I got
in holy water from the CatholicChurch and I said it in one of
my preachings and um, I was likeyou know what, like I've seen

(51:29):
it in movies, right, that theyget this water and they throw it
and supposedly, you know, thespirits leave right.
So I'm over here with my bibleand I'm praying, reading
scripture out loud and justthrowing water everywhere inside
my house.
And I went all the way to thebackyard throwing it everywhere
and I went to the front justpraying and reading scripture

(51:49):
out loud and you know, it'sfunny now that I think back
about it I was like man.
I wonder what my neighborsthought of me.
Like what's this guy doing?

Speaker 2 (51:56):
this guy's nuts and so you went outside around your
property yeah, around, probablyjust throwing it, just reading
scripture out loud how did youknow to do that?

Speaker 3 (52:06):
it's just off of movies I saw I guess you know
the priest would do that and um,so with you know, like how you
mentioned about certain attacks,like physical attacks from the
spirit realm.
And I got back to the house.
I went inside my house and Idon't know how I could describe
it, but I just I heard like atambourine.

(52:27):
It was kind of like it soundedlike a tambourine but it wasn't.
And I saw something outside thekitchen window and it was a.
It was a feminine, demonicspirit and it was just clothed
and like ancient robe, likewhere her face was covered, and
I just felt like it was arepresenting the spirit of

(52:48):
witchcraft, like that's what Ifelt it represented.
And then I heard a voice saidlook at your hands.
And I looked at my hands andall my hands are all scratched
up from claw marks and I wasjust like when I saw that, like
fear just got, you know, I justgot fearful and I was like dude,
what am I messing with?

(53:09):
Like I shouldn't be messingwith this, whatever it is.
And my older brother came outof his room and he said what are
you doing?
He's all whatever you're doing.
Like stop doing it.
Like don't mess with whateveryou're messing with well, yeah,
you were reading the bible right.
Yeah, okay yeah, so whatever itwas like, basically, you know,
tried to intimidate me byscratching me and um, so I was

(53:34):
like you know what, like this isbigger than what I think it is,
and I think the only way I'mgoing to get true victory is
actually like giving my life forgod and living for god, because
at that time I didn't want togive my life to god, because I
was just like you know what?
I just want to get better, getback to myself, and I could just
do me like, be me and don'thave to deal with any of this.

(53:57):
Um, but you know, god knowswhat we have to go through to
get it stuck in our heads sothat line in the sand came quick
for you yeah I.
It doesn't always come quick forpeople.
Well, I knew it was going to bea God thing, but I wasn't 100%
sure if I was going to stayliving for him.

Speaker 2 (54:13):
Yeah right, that's what I'm saying.
He wasn't giving you a choice.
It doesn't sound like.

Speaker 3 (54:18):
Yeah, now I think about it, exactly that.
So my aunt invites me toanother church, pentecostal
church in Visalia, and she takesme there on Wednesday night and
they give me a visitor cardlike a prayer request and I
remember the exact words that Iwrote and I said your prayer

(54:42):
request, what do you need?
And I said, and the thing I putcomplete deliverance from the
devil.
That's what I wrote in theprayer request.
What do you need?
And I said and the thing I put,complete deliverance from the
devil.
That's what I wrote in theprayer request.
And you know they preached andthen the altar call came and I
ran up there.
I was like you know, I felt thepower of God.
I said, if anything couldchange, it's going to be in this

(55:03):
place.
And as I went up to the altar,you know the pastor and you know
all the elders and the men wentover me and started praying for
me and god filled me with theholy ghost that day.
Wow, and you know, like I lookat other people who who take
years to get it and like with me, he gave it to me that day and

(55:24):
I'm like, I'm truly blessed thathe did, because I think he saw
that I needed it like I neededit to leave with his spirit that
day.
And that day was I knew, like Ididn't know, the full
understanding of the holy ghost.
You know, I was just a baby,like I didn't know.
I was barely starting to readscripture and try to understand

(55:44):
it.
And I went home that day and Iwas just joyful.
I felt a fire like all over myleft hand that I could not
explain.
It was just a pure fire and Ididn't understand.
You know, the bible says hebaptized you with the holy ghost
and fire.
Like I didn't read thatscripture yet, I was like man.

(56:05):
I feel like my hands on fire,but it's a good fire though it
doesn't burn like in pain, butlike it's a burning like with
power, like peace, purity andmaybe healing yeah, yeah,
exactly.
And so I went to sleep thatnight and I just I just kept
waking up and I was like this isa fire still there?
Okay, okay, still there, I'llgo to sleep, wake up.

(56:26):
Is it still there?
Okay, it's still there.
And that was the first nightwhere nothing bothered me in
months and it was just alife-changing experience.
And it took me months to getbaptized because, like I said, I
was still on the fence.
When I do something, I want tobe 100 in and I was like jesus,

(56:49):
like if I get baptized in yourname, I want to make sure like
I'm gonna live for you and I'mgonna do it right and I'm gonna
give you everything that I have.
I'm not gonna get baptized and Ihave doubt that I might
backslide and go back to theworld like I don't want.
I don't want to do that.
I don't want to hurt youbecause you've been so good to
me, you've been so faithful tome, that I don't want to do

(57:11):
something that would hurt youright and so it took months for
me to get baptized.
But I got baptized at our churchwhere we go to now and after
that, like after gettingbaptized, I think is what really
truly delivered me from whatwas chasing me during that
period in my life.
Like you know because I stillyou could ask individuals when I

(57:32):
first came I had my head down.
I couldn't look at anybody inthe face because of of
condemnation, of shame, of, youknow, fear of like I could.
That would come back to me andI would have to go through that
all over again.
So a lot of times I would havemy head down the whole time

(57:53):
during service because I justcouldn't look at anybody in the
face and over time, living forGod and God slowly chiseling all
that bondage over my life, Iwas able to finally lift my head
up, look at people in the eye,but it was baptism, I think is
what fully closed.
That door was washing.
All the enemies couldn't crossthat water that I had and the

(58:15):
supernatural they couldn't cross.
They couldn't go in there inthe blood with me so what do you
think?

Speaker 2 (58:20):
like I know, you probably know the right language
of what baptism means from asalvation standpoint but, what
did it mean for you, where youfelt like they just couldn't
cross the line anymore?
What did you understandspiritually that took place when
you got baptized?

Speaker 3 (58:41):
was that?
The bible says that.
You know the he makes us newcreatures in him.
And I believe that old man died.
So where all that, all thoseexperiences, all the sins that
could have, I guess, gave thempower or had, I guess, a breach
in my life where they could getaccess?
Into my life and hold me inbondage, that those breaches no

(59:05):
longer existed, because out ofthat water came out a new man
and that's and that's.
I felt so light, like all mypast mistakes, all the
condemnation, all the guilt, allthe shame, all the mistakes I
ever made and that old life likeno longer were tied to me, no

(59:25):
longer, yeah, and came out, meand a new, a new man, and it was
, that was, I think, the mostpivotal moment in my life to
like, okay, now I know I'm trulyfree because we hear that
scripture a lot and we believeit at face value.

Speaker 2 (59:45):
But it's so wonderful when someone can actually
experience the reality of thosewords, like really understand
that all of that died with youin that water, you know, and
that there is no more access toyou because you're now buried
with him in Christ and bear hisname in the spirit.

(01:00:07):
So, um, oh man, so manyquestions.
So you started reading yourbible, started coming to church
you found the church that you goto, now our church, and so once
you got baptized, how long wasit before you got filled with
the holy ghost?
And then you got baptized?

Speaker 3 (01:00:29):
I'm going to say it was at least three or four
months.

Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
Okay, and had you already been dating your wife?

Speaker 3 (01:00:36):
No, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:00:37):
So you came in church as a single man by yourself.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:00:41):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:00:42):
And then, when did you meet her?
Was she in church?

Speaker 3 (01:00:46):
Yeah, she was, she was Okay.
Was her?
Was she in church?
Yeah, yeah, she was, she wasokay.

Speaker 2 (01:00:49):
Was she born and raised in church?

Speaker 3 (01:00:51):
Yes, she was, and then she backslid for a couple
years and then came back.
Okay okay, but she was therewhen I started going Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:01:01):
So what do you think now, chris, when you look back,
yeah, what do you think God iscalling you to besides being a
preacher?
What gift sets do you thinkthat God uses you in or is

(01:01:25):
calling you to?
And do you see any correlationfrom where you've been to what
God has for you and yourministry?

Speaker 3 (01:01:35):
well, honestly, I really have a burden for, like
the neighborhoods that a lot ofpeople wouldn't want to go to,
because a lot, of, a lot ofthose individuals that come from
broken homes are broken and theonly the only, I guess,
encouragement that they have isto join either a gang or be in

(01:01:57):
part of a criminal group, ordrugs and alcohol, like that's
the only way that they know togo about it, because they have
no real good influences in theirlives.
Like, for instance, me growingup.
I can only say I had like twoor three good teachers in my
life.
All the other teachers lookedat me and I'm not casting any

(01:02:18):
stones at them because I getwhere they got their mindset
from.

Speaker 2 (01:02:23):
They just look at behaviors, yeah.
They don't look at a personyeah.

Speaker 3 (01:02:26):
So they just see me the way I dress, yeah, and
they're just like this guy isjust going to either be locked
up or he's going to end up dying.
So why am I going to invest anytime in him?
So a lot of times they don'thave good leadership at all and
I feel like that's a burden forme is to reach those individuals

(01:02:49):
, not just because I can relateto them, but because I know how
it is to go through that and nothave that structure and not
have people believe in you, onlysee bad things in you and, um,
that's one of the things Ireally have a burden for is
reaching those individuals.
Going to those neighborhoods,um, you know, sometimes it might

(01:03:10):
, when I used to do, outreachfor brother angel, we would go
to those neighborhoods and youknow, sometimes it might.
When I used to do outreach withbrother angel, we would go to
those neighborhoods and you know, sometimes people feel a little
uncomfortable, which I get, Iunderstand.
Um with me, though, like it'sjust like seeing old friends
again yeah and I I just like you, know just their language, the
way they talk and all that likeobviously I don't talk that way

(01:03:31):
anymore, but I can understand,like I can just relate to them.
It's just because I guess it'sjust because my background and
honestly and like the gifts Ifelt, like god has shown me is
one of them, is discernment forsure the sermon of spirits, like
you don't know how many times,like when I began to live for
god, because I lived with thatspirit of witchcraft for so long

(01:03:52):
that I grew familiar to how itfelt yeah and you know how many
times I came across people atthe store, people at restaurants
, like right away, like I'm sureyou've experienced, like right
away, like you, just it's theholy ghost and you just feel you
make that, you make that eyecontact and, like you guys both
know already, like right, oh, Iknow what you represent and I

(01:04:16):
know you know what.

Speaker 2 (01:04:16):
I represent Because the spirit is communicating.
Yeah, it's always communicating.
Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 3 (01:04:23):
That's just one of the things that God has blessed
me with.
It was discernment.

Speaker 2 (01:04:28):
Do you see in the spirit now?
Like angels, or have you seenthe good in the spirit realm?

Speaker 3 (01:04:38):
One time I could say, like God, actually let me see,
like for a couple seconds, fulldetail of an angel and I think
I've told it to Jeremy andAngelo it was.
I got dropped off at a youthservice and you know I'm not
trying to boast or anything butwhen I first started church I

(01:04:58):
didn't know anything aboutfasting, so a lot of times I
would fast how Esther and theApostle Paul would, with no food
or water.
And I didn't know like you'resupposed to drink water.
So a lot of times I would fastthat way and when I was on the
fast and you know I was justhungry after god and I remember

(01:05:18):
my mom dropped me off at a youthservice and when I got dropped
off I saw something in thecorner of my eye and I looked
and you know the alleyway thatgoes, say if you're going
towards the mineral king.
It was, it was an angel.
That was at least, like I wouldsay, 20, 30 feet tall and he
was walking around the cornerand when I saw him, like I only

(01:05:42):
saw him for a couple seconds,but he had a sword and he's gone
and it was just amazing, likethe armor and everything that he
had on.
I was just just like just thatthree seconds of seeing it, I
was like you know, thank you,Jesus, that was such a blessing
to see and it was just Godconfirming, you know, like he
takes care of his body, he takescare of his church and there's

(01:06:03):
nothing for us to fear.
You know, like I said, like nowthat I know God and know his
power and all that like littlethings, Like you know, obviously
we still get attacked.
You know we still are going togo through things, but it's like
knowing, just like you know,what God is in control, like
there's nothing that you can doto me, there's nothing that you

(01:06:25):
can go after that God doesn'talready know, doesn't have
control over already know,doesn't have control over um.

Speaker 2 (01:06:40):
Do you ever pray to ask god to open your eyes to see
more in the spirit?
Because I believe if you cansee in the demonic, you can see
in the angelic yeah because it'sit's the gift of seeing, and so
you know, have you ever prayedfor?

Speaker 3 (01:06:53):
that I think I have.
I haven't lately.
You know I probably should.
There is no gift of seeing.

Speaker 2 (01:07:00):
But, it is discernment of spirits and it is
to be aware of you know.

Speaker 1 (01:07:09):
Of the surroundings.

Speaker 2 (01:07:10):
Yeah, partnering with the Lord, you know, and to be
able to see, you know, umsurrounding, yeah, Partnering
with the Lord, you know, and, uh, to be able to see.
I I've prayed for that becauseI used to see all the demonic
stuff.
And and my cousin Jason Jeremy'suh brother had seen an angel,
and so I would compare as a kid,like why did I see demons?
And he saw an angel, likewhat's the matter with me?

(01:07:35):
But I began to pray that Godopened my eyes to see.
I want to.
When we know what heaven isdoing, we can align with God's
will in our prayer.
And you know, I want to go backto that with you, like now that
you understand the power ofthat spell, because even I think
you said the witch said thatonce they say it it only takes,

(01:07:57):
once it's, you know, it's set.

Speaker 3 (01:08:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:02):
What do you, what do you think now about prayer?
And how you know if a spell isthat powerful.
What do you think now aboutprayer?

Speaker 3 (01:08:13):
I think prayer is, I think, one of the most underused
weapon that we as christianshave like there's so much power
in prayer.
You know jesus um said, youknow he talks about faith.
You know moving um, it's a seatof a, so you can move mountains
, and you know it's interestingabout prayers.
Like I have, I love prayer asone thing that, when I first got

(01:08:36):
into living for god was likeprayer.
Prayer, prayer and his word werethe two things I felt like if I
could establish a prayer lifeand establish a word life, I
think if I have those two thingsthat I could go through
anything in life yeah, and Iremember I had a dream and I
think and I told this dream tobrother stone king one time and

(01:08:59):
the dream was I felt like I waslike in a jungle, I felt like
africa, and in the dream I waslike in a white robe, like if I
was like a priest, and I wentinside this hut.
It was like it I guess it wasthe temple, but it was a hut and
I went in there and I began tolight an incense and I was

(01:09:20):
praying to God and as I prayedto God, for some reason, on the
other side of the wall it was acity.
Looked like a big city like aNew York City or I don't know
what city it was, but it was ahuge, developed city, had
skyscrapers and everything.
And then I saw a bomb just fallin that city and as it fell it

(01:09:42):
blew and I seen all theindividuals running and that
cloud just overshadowed them andthen they disappeared.
And as I was praying, all of asudden it reversed, like if it
never happened wow, chris and Iremember I told brother stone
king this dream that I had, Isaid was talking.
You know I had.
I caught him at a time.

(01:10:02):
I said I had this dream.
I want to know what.
What is this, do you know, withthe interpretation of this
dream?
And he said he said, brother,that was god's showing you that
your prayers have changed, couldchange the outcome of countries
and worlds that's a globalmenace.

Speaker 2 (01:10:19):
I mean chris, that is so powerful yeah, it was.
It was something I would neverforget, when he told me that I
was just like man, like but Ithink, like so I could be wrong
anyone out there who's listeningto me feel free to comment and
I could be wrong, but in myspirit, when you were talking

(01:10:39):
about that demonic angel thatyou saw, my first thought was it
was a principality.
And I wonder, as you talk aboutthis dream like, if God is
really calling you to a city ora region like you know, man,

(01:11:01):
chris, I think you got to reallypray into Lord.
Why did that happen?
What does the enemy know that?
I don't know yet about yourpurpose for me, because I've
I've heard of people havingdemonic attacks.
I think, uh, brother Mahaneytalked, um in his podcast with

(01:11:23):
me, um, about a principalitythat had visited him when he was
preaching someplace and itshowed itself and I don't know,
I I don't know if I'm right orwrong or what, but I would take
it to the lord because that kindof a vision it, it's, it's,

(01:11:44):
it's for bigger than you rightand and I think the lord is
trying to reveal to you.
He puts everything in us thatwe're ever going to need, but we
have to discover it, and allthese things are trying to
reveal his ultimate purpose.
But I mean, I'm so excitedbecause I feel like the lord is

(01:12:04):
giving you, um, an indication oflike.
If you have, if, if our prayercan reverse the destruction of a
huge city, like you said, newyork city, man, what could god
do here in our city?
Or the city that you feelcalled to, or like how.

(01:12:27):
How powerful is prayer really?

Speaker 3 (01:12:31):
it's like I said earlier.
I think it's the most underusedweapon that we have as
Christians, and I get it whenpeople say prayer.
A lot of times it's like manyour flesh doesn't want to do it
.
But one thing that we starteddoing as a family and I should
have done it years ago is thatas a family, we take 10 minutes

(01:12:54):
and we pray as a family at ourhome, because I feel like if I'm
going to see growth in mychildren and in my family, I
think it's going to be there inthe home having a prayer meeting
, because none of my childrenhave the Holy Ghost yet and I'm
believing that one of thoseprayer meetings at our home is
that God's going to fill themwith the holy ghost yeah, you

(01:13:15):
know he could do it at asanctuary, I don't mind it, it's
just.
I really feel like it's going tohappen there at my house.
Yeah, and it's just.
I know I think a lot of timesit's.
The greatest struggle as aChristian is to have a prayer
life, because the devil knowsthat that's the greatest tool

(01:13:36):
that we have at our disposal,and the Bible says that life and
death is in the power of thetongue.
So there's power in our voiceand there's power in our words.
And one experience that I hadwhen I was beginning, beginning
to live for god we had to livewith my brother for a certain

(01:13:57):
time.
So I I was going to abundantlife center for, like, I think,
a month or so did your brothergo there?

Speaker 2 (01:14:03):
no, no, no oh, they were just in taleri, they lived
in taleri, so we had a.

Speaker 3 (01:14:07):
We had to stay with them for a month because my
parents had just gotten a newhouse and it wasn't ready.
So I had a.
You know, I was barely, I think, a month or two months old in
the lord and I had a dream.
And in this dream it was, itwas taking place in the same
room.
It literally felt like my body,like my spirit left my body and

(01:14:30):
I could see myself sleeping.
And in this dream, like I said,god would only show me the
outline of the demonic spirit.
And in the outline of it it was, at least, I want to say, 8, 10
feet tall and it was big and Icould tell it was a male type of
demonic spirit and it had hornsand it was just grabbing me and

(01:14:53):
just throwing me all across theroom like if I was a rag doll.
And instead of me being fearful, I kind of I just started
laughing.
I was like man, you have, youknow, you think you have no
power over me.
I said all I need to say is thename of, and when I was about
to say Jesus, it grabbed mytongue.

(01:15:14):
I felt my tongue just shut itdidn't allow me to say it, and
that's when fear kind of got in.
I was just trying to say Jesus.
But when I was able to finallyget it out and say Jesus, I woke
up and my tongue hurt so badthat night.
I woke up with so much pain inmy tongue and when I woke up I

(01:15:36):
heard a cock crow like outsidemy window and this was at three
in the morning wow and um.
The next day, um, I told my momabout the dream and I was like
did you hear that cock crow atthree in the morning?
She's like, yeah, I was up andI heard it.
So I was like I thought it wasjust in my head, yeah, but she
confirmed that there was um acrow outside my window at that

(01:15:59):
night and you know, it was justconfirming that I was on the
right path, like man.

Speaker 2 (01:16:02):
There's power in the name of jesus yes yes it's
tremendous power in his name butI don't think that your
experience in the supernaturalis for nothing.
It's not just so the devil cantorment you.
I think it is to give youwisdom and understanding and
knowledge and how to fight helland how to help others in that

(01:16:27):
area, because there is so, so,so much.
I mean, we have kiddos that arefooling around in witchcraft,
that don't even understand whatthey're doing.
It's so commonplace right now.

Speaker 3 (01:16:42):
Yeah it doesn't help that this world.
They follow certain celebritiesthat make it a norm.

Speaker 2 (01:16:47):
Right, right, and there's a lot of it in the music
industry and stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:16:53):
Yeah, the way I look at stuff like that is that if
the demonic is so blunt about itand doing witchcraft and all
that, then there's somethinggoing on in the supernatural.
Yes, there is, there's arevival coming and it knows that
it's trying to distractindividuals from.

Speaker 2 (01:17:16):
Because we have the power.

Speaker 3 (01:17:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:17:19):
We have the power.
I think attacks will come, butthey can't stay.
I mean you know what I mean theminute that we speak the name
it has to leave.
But I think it's that fear,that intimidation that you
experienced, and it's sointeresting because it is so

(01:17:43):
real, and I wonder to myself,Lord, what is the difference?
Difference?
What's happening in thedifference when people have
physical realities of the attack.
Like you did, scratch marks.
Even tucker carlson had scratchmarks all across his abdomen

(01:18:05):
after being attacked by a demon,and and bloody knuckles and you
different things, right?
That is very tangible evidenceand I've always wondered, like
Lord, what is that?
What does that mean?
Why do some people have it moreprofoundly?
Where there's physicalleftovers, if you will, of of

(01:18:30):
that versus people that justmight have a sleep paralysis
event or or see things in thespirit you know um.
Anyways, I wonder do you haveany thoughts on that?
Have you thought?

Speaker 3 (01:18:44):
about it much, or do you try?
To just stay away from it yeah,that's never really crossed my
mind.
Um, honestly, I feel like ithappens to certain people
because I think a lot of itmakes me wonder do those people
even believe in the supernatural, and if that's the only way god
can show them that it's real?

Speaker 2 (01:19:04):
right, right, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:19:05):
And because me, even though I knew it was real and I
experienced that it was real, ittook that voice and me hearing
that you know demonic femininevoice scream.
The way I heard it, the way Ihear your voice.
And it took that what made merealize, like you know what,
this is real.
This isn't a game.

Speaker 1 (01:19:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:19:27):
But there's, there's truth behind it, you know.
So it caused you to believe,because you really didn't it
would have been easy for you todismiss yeah, I think if it
wasn't for that, I probablywould have ended up not going
searching for god.
I probably would have just beenlike all right, well, spell's
broken.
I could go back to my old lifeand go back to doing my own
things.
Just avoid girls that do thatyeah so I think it was me

(01:19:51):
hearing that and really like setthe sound, like okay, like
there's something going on here.
This it's real, yeah, and youknow, like be us, because we
have nothing really to fearabout it, because we know who we
are in god right right.
But the individuals, like I said, who don't know anything about
god, like they don't realizethat how real it really is right

(01:20:15):
that you know, like people, who, who, whom get involved in that
right, they don't realize thattheir spirit's being attached to
them, even though, if they quit, those spirits are still
attached to them because theyopened up that door right right.
So it's just like I said, it'sjust God.
I think God's doing somethingamazing.

Speaker 2 (01:20:37):
I do too.
I think there's a revivalcoming.
I do too.

Speaker 1 (01:20:39):
I feel it.

Speaker 3 (01:20:40):
Even though they are involved in that kind of stuff.
It makes me, gives me hope thatthey're curious about the
supernatural.

Speaker 2 (01:20:49):
Right, right, right.

Speaker 3 (01:20:50):
So if they're, curious about the dark.
They don't realize that there'slight too right, that's more
powerful than that right and Ithink you see a lot throughout
um social media.
A lot of ex warlocks, wizards,witches are coming to god right
and it's because they werecurious.
I want they're curious into thesupernatural and they thought

(01:21:12):
that that was the way that thedevil had all the power, and
soon it took God interviewing torealize that there is a God and
that God has all power, and itjust gives me hope, even though
they're involved in that thatthis world is curious about the
supernatural.

(01:21:32):
They're involved in that.
That this world is curiousabout the supernatural Because I
feel, like I said it lastWednesday, is that the world has
done a good job at numbing usat the supernatural and making
us spiritually blind to thespirit realm.
Because I think Stone King saidit, he said what you see in the
physical.

(01:21:53):
Before it happened, it happenedin the supernatural, in
spiritual?

Speaker 2 (01:21:57):
Yes, it did.
And to me.

Speaker 3 (01:22:00):
I truly believe that's so true.

Speaker 2 (01:22:03):
And when we walk in the spirit, the spirit also goes
before us, so we can know andsee what God is going to do in
the spirit before it manifestsin the natural, because that's
what happened with the childrenof Israel.
There was always the pillar offire and the cloud that went
before them.

(01:22:24):
And that's how the spirit of Godworks, in our life too.
So when we walk in the spirit,he is preparing us for what's
coming.
When we walk in the Spirit, heis preparing us for what's
coming.
That's why we feel thisanticipation and excitement and
what God is doing.
But yeah 100%.

(01:22:45):
Whatever we see manifest in thenatural was already completed
in the spiritual.
So prayer is super, superimportant.
Oh yeah, most definitely.

Speaker 3 (01:22:53):
I think that's the number one thing that the devil
tries to get us to lack in isprayer, because there's so much
things that happens in prayer.

Speaker 1 (01:23:04):
The.

Speaker 3 (01:23:04):
Bible says that.
One of the things that standsout to me is when Samson was
born, or the angel came andvisited Samson's parents and he
said, um that, no, they're gonnabear a son who's gonna be a
judge.
And I I don't know a word forword, but they're, they go and
they set, I think, incense andbuild an altar, and the angel

(01:23:29):
carries that incense.
And that's how prayer is.
Is that incense?
incense before the lord and youknow this is just my own thought
, but when jesus did, when hemultiplied, he did the miracles.
He multiplied with the bread offish and loaves right, he
multiplied the bread right, andthat represented his word that

(01:23:52):
when you, when you invest in hisword, it's going to multiply in
your life.
That's what I believe.
I could be wrong, it's just myown thought, but when he did,
when he describes, you know he'sthe wine and he's a bread,
right, and what's the miraclethat he did with the wine was at
the at the um, the wedding yeah, but he converted the water to

(01:24:14):
the exact volume of wine.
He didn't multiply it, it wasthe exact same amount.
And that's how I feel.
How prayer is in our life isthat you're gonna get out of
prayer exactly what you put intoit.
So if you, you know that you'regonna get as close to god as
you want to get to close to God,and how, if you want to only

(01:24:35):
put five minutes into prayer,like you can't expect God to
hand you the keys and you do allthese miracles, you know what I
mean, because you're justinvesting a little bit of time
with him, you know, and that'sjust the way I look at prayer.
Right, right and my life is thatyou're're gonna get what you
put into it right, you're gonnaget out of it.

Speaker 2 (01:24:55):
yeah, yeah, so good, so good, um, okay, well, so
where do you like chris?
What do you want from god?
What do you want from god inthe supernatural and and in the
physical, for your life and foryour family?
I know you want your kids to befilled, but what is the desire

(01:25:16):
of your heart in the Lord?

Speaker 3 (01:25:21):
Honestly, just to do what he called me to do.
I know we're all called toreach the lost.
That's a big burden.
For me is reaching the lost umgoing out, outreaching.
You know a lot of people.
You know a lot of people don'tlike door knocking anymore,
which I totally get um, but mepersonally is like I, I want to

(01:25:42):
be out, out in the forefront youknow, and you know whether I
see results or not.
I don't know until I do it youknow what's.
What's it going to hurt themsaying no, that's it.

Speaker 2 (01:25:55):
Well, my last guest, victor Milano, is a result the
whole Milano family which isvast is a result from Sunday
school ministry.

Speaker 1 (01:26:06):
Riding the.

Speaker 2 (01:26:06):
Sunday school bus.
So I do think that we're goingto see a resurrection of the
Sunday school ministry and doorknocking.
I really kind of think we'regoing to go back to the basics,
because it worked and I think itstill works.

Speaker 3 (01:26:27):
Yeah, there's Brother Urshan.
Nathaniel Urshan, that's theway he started.
Churches was door knocking.
Urchin, nathaniel urchin, um,that's the way he started
churches was door knocking.
And, um, I remember I think Ithink he was at another church
and the minister was like oh,don't, I can, don't work, no
more.
He's like well, you know what,why don't you, why don't you
come with me and we'll just goknock a couple doors on saturday
morning.
And, if I'm not mistaken, theywent.

(01:26:50):
I think it was the first doorthey went to.
They knocked and I think thefoundation inviter said who they
are and having a revival, andthe morning inviter to church
and this and that.
And the woman's response waslike man, I've been praying for
God to send someone to me andjust little things like that

(01:27:11):
make me hope.
Like I said, know a lot ofpeople don't believe in door
knocking anymore like, and Iunderstand that.
It's just I feel like we got toput ourselves and how are we
gonna?
We could reach people throughrestaurants, going out and about
in life.
You know that's something thatwe should be doing yeah but

(01:27:31):
making that extra effort to goout of your way, whether it's
hot, cold or maybe it'sinconvenient for you, that
sacrifice that you're doing, Ithink god will honor it and lead
you to somebody well, I thinkpeople's hearts are hungry for
god.

Speaker 2 (01:27:48):
I feel like.
I feel like that is changingand people are really.
I think people are just moreopen to the Lord.
You know, there's such apolarity now in the world.
You're either this side oryou're that side, and that line

(01:28:09):
in the sand is getting so muchwider that I think you know the
scripture that the fields arewide unto harvest.
I feel like we are in thatplace where it the fields are
white and people are ready yeahyou know to to open their door
to somebody that's knocking yeah, yeah, I truly believe it too

Speaker 3 (01:28:31):
yeah and like my approach would be, um is, before
I go out, just pray that godlead me to where you want me to
go yeah because I believe hewould.
He'll give you a cleardirection of what, whether it's
to go to a park, a neighborhoodapartment complex, whatever it
may be.
I think if we seek, seek afterhim, he'll lead us to somebody.

(01:28:53):
We just got to be those willingvessels and laborers for his
kingdom.

Speaker 2 (01:29:01):
Well, Chris, I love your wife to death.

Speaker 3 (01:29:04):
Oh, thank you, I just love her.
I love her too.

Speaker 2 (01:29:07):
She will make a great pastor's wife one day.
I mean she's already.
You know what I'm saying.
She's fabulous, but I've heardyou preach twice now and I just
think you exude such a humility.
That is a blessing to me, andwhen I've heard you speak, I've

(01:29:30):
enjoyed it every time, so I'mreally excited that you're at
our church and I'm super excitedabout what God has in store for
you in the future.
To reach the lost, because weneed to reach them.
What would you say?
I always end with two questions.
What would you say to theperson out there who might be

(01:29:52):
battling demonic oppression, uh,demonic attacks, who might be
on the fence about returning tothe lord or giving their life to
the lord for the first time?
What would you say to thatperson?

Speaker 3 (01:30:08):
I would tell them that god is the answer, that
they could go through therapywhich there's nothing wrong with
that and they could getmedication, they could go
through a program, but what'struly going to heal them is
going to be only God and I'm aliving example of that and that

(01:30:31):
God loves them no matter what,no matter what they've done, no
matter where they're at, nomatter what situation they find
themselves in currently, thatGod will leave the 99 for that.
One individual condemnation ortheir past or individuals

(01:30:57):
prevent them from living for God, because God is the only one
that's going to truly set themfree, and that's all they need
is Jesus in their lives.
I, I went 19 years of my lifewithout Jesus and when I finally
gave my life to God, I can saywith no doubt that is the best
decision I ever made in my life.

(01:31:19):
I now have a beautiful family.
I'm married, we have our ownhouse now, and if God did it for
me, he'll do it for anybody.
That's what I would tell him.

Speaker 2 (01:31:31):
Yeah, how many years have you been living for him now
?

Speaker 3 (01:31:34):
in august will be 15 years wow, that's wonderful I
can't wait till I get to 20.
So I say I've been living forgod more than when I was living
for the world.

Speaker 2 (01:31:43):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
And what would you say to theparent out there who you know
might be like your mom struggledwith her child, or the parent
or the loved one watchingsomeone experience what you went
through?
What would you say to them?

Speaker 3 (01:32:01):
I would tell them that don't quit on your child.
Fight for them, which I knowevery mother will.
It's just you need to.
Are you doing it by your ownmight or your own strength,
which is only going to get youso far?
You need to have God with you.
You need to have God in yourlife.

(01:32:21):
You need to be praying for yourson Because, whether you're
living for God or not, I believeGod truly honors the prayer of
a mother, because no one couldpray for their child like a
mother can.

Speaker 2 (01:32:31):
Your mom was very instrumental in protecting you
and helping you and keeping youthroughout.
Yeah, she was.

Speaker 3 (01:32:40):
Yeah, if she would listen to the family members and
put me in a mental asylum, likeI said, I don't know where I
would be at right now yeah.
But she, you know, I'm thankfulthat she did have at least a
background of God.
And she knows because she, youknow, I'm thankful that she did
have at least a background ofGod.

Speaker 2 (01:32:54):
And she knows because she you know, I think she was
she has a Holy Ghost and beenbaptized in Jesus name, so
that's something you can't everget away from.
Right, right yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:33:05):
And.
But I would tell the mother,you know, don't give up.

Speaker 1 (01:33:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:33:08):
Don't give up, like you mean more to your child than
what you think you do.
You are their lifeline, andthat's what I would tell the
mother.

Speaker 2 (01:33:21):
Okay, Chris.
Well, thank you so much.
And for anyone watching, hejust preached a great message
last week on the PentecostalLighthouse YouTube page.
You can listen to him preach onthe Pentecostal Lighthouse
YouTube page.
You can listen to and preach.
And for anyone else out there,if you're a backslider and you
want to share your testimony,please feel free to email us,

(01:33:47):
call us.
All the information is on ourYouTube page or our podcast page
, but we would love to hear fromyou, and so thank you so much
for joining us today.
God bless.

Speaker 1 (01:34:00):
We are so glad you joined us.
If you have a story ofredemption or have worn the
label of a backslider, we wouldlove to hear from you.
If you'd like to support ourministry, your donation will be
tax deductible.
Visit our website atkathychastaincom.
We hope you will tune in forour next episode.

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