August 21, 2025 • 68 mins
Pornography addiction among Christian women remains one of the most hidden yet prevalent struggles in our churches today. In this vulnerable conversation, Brianna Arango breaks the silence by sharing her journey from secret addiction to complete freedom.
Brianna's story begins with accidental exposure to pornography at just seven years old, creating neural pathways she would return to as a teenager during times of emotional distress. Despite being actively involved in her church—playing in the praise team and attending regularly—she maintained a secret addiction that created significant spiritual separation. What makes her testimony particularly powerful is her insight that despite repeatedly asking God to take away her addiction, she wasn't truly surrendering it: "I realized I wasn't letting it go... it was just such a security that I couldn't let go."
The conversation takes a surprising turn when Brianna reveals the critical moment that gave her hope—overhearing a friend mention someone who had overcome pornography addiction. This simple revelation that she wasn't alone gave her the courage to confide in someone. Through accountability, practical safeguards, and immersion in Scripture, she began her eight-month journey toward freedom.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Redeemed Backslider with your
host, kathy Chastain.
Christian-based psychotherapistand Redeemed Backslider.
This podcast is dedicated tothose who have wandered but are
ready to return to thelife-changing power of grace and
the freedom found in Jesus.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Hi, welcome to the Redeemed Backslider.
I'm your host, kathy Chastain.
I'm a Redeemed Backslider andI'm a Christian-based marriage
and family therapist.
With me in the studio today isBrianna Arango, and she has a
very interesting story to tell,one that I think affects many
people in our churches, but onethat also is not talked about
(00:45):
very much, and so I was reallyreally happy that she was
willing to be vulnerable andcome on the podcast today and
share a little bit about herstory.
So welcome to Studio Bree.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
So where should we begin?
Because you are not really abackslider as what we would kind
of term backsliding, but Ithink there's a lot of, and
actually, now that I think aboutit, I don't know if it could be
called backsliding when you'rein the church, you attend church
(01:22):
, but then you have a secret,separate life that nobody really
knows about.
So would you call thatbacksliding, or would you call
that a fall, or would you justcall that wrestling through sin?
How would you think of that?
Speaker 3 (01:42):
That's a good question.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
How did you think of that?
That's a good question.
How?
Speaker 3 (01:47):
did you think of it for yourself?
I guess I would consider it.
I don't know, Maybe just itjust felt like continual sinning
.
You know, I don't think I wouldhave considered myself a
backslider.
I mean, I was very involved inchurch.
Still, I was very Pursuing God.
(02:11):
Yes, I never left him in thatsense or left the church, but I
did have sin twisted up in mylife very deeply yeah very
deeply yeah very deeply.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Yeah, I think you're right.
I don't think it wasbacksliding.
I think there is sometimespeople that attend church who
are in a backslidden statebecause they're willfully
pursuing a secret, separate life.
But in your case you weren't.
You were just wrestling througha difficult time and not
(02:52):
knowing what to do about it.
So you were raised in church.
Your mom was already in churchat this time, right, yes?
And your dad, when you wereborn, your dad was not yet in
church.
Your mom was coming without him.
Is that accurate?
So tell me a little bit aboutyour childhood and growing up.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Yeah, I was raised in church.
I attended with my mom.
My dad was not in church.
He was a functional drug addict, an alcoholic, all of those
things.
He came in when I was.
I believe I was about 12, 10,11, 12.
(03:38):
I'm so sorry about the timehere.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Yeah, it's hard to remember, but around.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
there is when he came in To church.
To church, yes.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Now, was your mom in church when they got married or
did she get in church?
Because I think your mom kindof was raised in church, right,
so was she in church when theymet and got married?
Speaker 3 (04:02):
I believe my grandma was in church and going, but my
mom didn't fully practice goingto church and living a Christian
lifestyle.
I guess you can say but soonafter I was born is when she
gave her life to God completely.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Okay, and so at 10, 11, 12, you were just a
youngster and had your othersiblings come along, yet yes, my
brother.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
So my sister, my younger sister, we're 10 years
apart, and my brother, I believe, we're like 18 months apart.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
So it was him and I.
We were super close growing up.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
So then you grew up in church then for all intents
and purposes.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Yes, okay.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Okay.
So then, when did you, how oldwere you when you began to have
struggles, when you began to youknow, I guess grow up and
realize things were not okay inthe world?
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Probably, I guess, grow up and realize things were
not okay in the world.
Probably when I was 12, when Ibecame a teenager and started
junior high, high school, it wasall kind of prevalent there.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Yeah, junior high is a really big turning point for
kids and these days it seemslike fifth and sixth grade, like
I feel like it's startingyounger, when kids are really
becoming of age and I a lotprobably depends on household as
well, but sixth grade seems tobe a turning point now in this
(05:45):
generation where they're reallybeginning to be aware of things
around them.
So what was it for you?
Walk us through.
What started to change for youin your life?
Speaker 3 (06:00):
I think I kind of, let's see, going into junior
high I actually homeschooled.
I went to junior high for acouple months and it was.
I hated it.
I came and all my friendschanged.
(06:21):
All my friends changed.
Um, it was, you know, parties,drugs, sex, boys, girls, girls
and girls, boys and boys and um,for me, it just my spirit
wasn't, it didn't, it wasn'tconnecting, you know, and I
realized that that was like Icouldn't do that.
(06:41):
So I homeschooled, actually fortwo years and then I went to
high school and I think when Iwent to high school I started
having more friends and I feellike my dad had come into church
(07:04):
, I think when I was like 12years old and my home life
didn't completely change Growingup, I mean, my parents were
young, my parents were 17 when Iwas born, so there was a lot of
navigating navigating lifethere.
And with my dad, you know, notbeing in church.
It was.
It was a lot for my mom and Ithink that my home life affected
(07:29):
a lot of it.
I think I felt a lot of stressand disconnect from it.
Um so I found, I guess, my outin a sense in pornography and,
um, I wouldn't say a comfort, Idon't know the right word.
I guess out would be the rightword.
A way to cope.
(07:50):
Yeah, a way to cope.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Were you always?
Because you're a little bit shy, I guess Is shy the right word.
Were you always like that as ayoungster or do you think you
grew into be more like that,with the home environment being
a struggle, with one parentserving God?
Clearly that would be difficultwith a parent that was
(08:16):
struggling with addiction.
Do you feel like you're alwayskind of on the quiet side and
shy, or do you think youdeveloped into that with just
the way you grew up?
Speaker 3 (08:30):
I think I was always that way.
I grew up with a birthmark onmy face.
Now I have a scar, but it wasbig on my face until I was about
12 or 13.
So a lot of people would alwaysask me questions.
They would make fun of me inschool.
So I think it developed andstarted kind of there.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
So you were that reserved, pretty self-conscious
probably, about that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then so adversity in home,which happens in most homes you
know, but adversity in the homeenvironment might have affected
you differently than what itmight have affected another
(09:12):
personality type.
Do you want to elaborate onthat, like how, what did it do
for you?
How did it affect you, wouldyou say?
Did it scare you?
Did it?
Speaker 3 (09:25):
I don't think it scared me, I think I just pulled
back and was more reserved,even more so to myself.
I found myself depressed a lot.
I would say I kind of wouldfall.
(09:45):
I would feel myself like fallinto a, my deep hole.
I guess I would say, um and it,I guess it affected me that way
, and that's when I would bealone and want to be alone, or
by myself not wanting to bearound people want to be alone,
or by myself not wanting to bearound people.
(10:08):
Um, very um.
My emotions were reallyrollercoaster up and down.
I feel like I would havemoments of happiness and then I
remember being really sad orreally just depressed, like in
that, in that state of mind, um,and being alone.
That's where I found myselfsearching.
I guess.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Did you feel lonely, like when you were alone?
Do you remember feeling lonely?
Or were you feeling mostlydepressed, like?
Can you recall what yourthought patterns were?
What was really causing you tofeel what you were feeling?
Speaker 3 (10:56):
I would.
I don't recall, I would just.
I mean, I guess the chaos athome was what caused me to to
feel that way, to just, you know, shut myself out.
(11:16):
That would probably be.
I don't, I don't know, thatwould probably be.
I don't, I don't know.
I'm trying to to dig back inand remember.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
At that point you're probably just surviving and it's
hard to, but I know that youhave journaled, so I wondered if
you went back and looked andkind of you know, just in
hindsight, looked at what wasgoing on for you back then, kind
of you know just in hindsight,looked at what was going on for
you back then.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
I remember in, I guess, the peak of, like, my
addiction to pornography.
My life felt like it wasspiraling, I guess, and that was
just.
I mean, my dad was saved at thepoint.
My dad was in church.
My home life was, you know, itwas getting better because, you
know, both my parents were inchurch.
They were driving for the samething, um, but, like my, my
(12:08):
grandparents had passed away, um, they were a big part of my
life, um, within years apart, um, and I remember just feeling
just super out of place withinmyself.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
That's a lot, yeah, I mean, when you feel out of
place within yourself, it's hardto know where to go because you
don't really know yourself, youdon't feel comfortable in your
own skin.
Yeah, so then, how did you findpornography?
Speaker 3 (12:59):
I was introduced to it at a young age.
I would say I think most peopleare what's young, how young.
I feel like I was about sevenor eight years old, maybe nine,
at my grandparents' house.
My uncle was.
I had a young uncle, so I meanmy dad was young, so my uncle
(13:20):
was even younger and he livedwith my grandparents.
Uncle was even younger, um, andhe lived with my grandparents,
and I think I was just in hisroom trying to find cartoons and
I stumbled upon pornography onthe tv and um, I remember just
being infatuated.
You know my little eyes you know, what's happening before me and
(13:40):
um, and you know that was thefirst time and I, I think I
remember just remembering thatthat never really left my
subconscious.
You know my thoughts.
So when life started to feeloverwhelming, it took me back
(14:00):
there.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
So do you think it was curiosity, or like when you
saw it for the first time,because I could see where
curiosity would kind of be like.
What is this?
Like what you know um or it.
It clearly made a mark on youyeah at that age.
I'm asking.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
It was curiosity, for sure.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
What mark that was?
Yeah, yeah.
So when you started to struggle, that's where you went back in
your mind.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Mm, hmm, mm hmm, yeah .
Speaker 2 (14:36):
And then what happened?
Speaker 3 (14:39):
After that point.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Um, like did you?
You had a moment where I'm notokay, I don't feel comfortable
in my skin.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
I don't feel like I belong anywhere.
And you remembered what you sawwhen you were little.
Then did you immediately gosearch it out.
Did you know what it was bythen at that point oh, this is
quote, pornography.
Or did you just think it was bythen at that point, oh, this is
quote pornography.
Or did you just think it waslove, or I think as I got older
um, I from middle schoolobviously hearing my friends
talk about you know, sex and andparties and whatnot and it was
always around, it's around inmovies, it's around you know
it's it's there.
It's not full on, but you canget that little taste of you
(15:33):
know what, what you're lookingfor, yeah, and so I guess I I
kind of always was inclined alittle bit to movies and to
certain things and certain shows, just to like find that again,
without fully indulging you know, and going there and um, I
(15:53):
think in high school is when Ikind of fell off completely and
was like just went in, you know,head first.
I, I intentionally looked it up,I intentionally, uh would watch
.
I, I intentionally looked it up, I intentionally, uh would
watch.
And um, I just knew what I waslooking for at that point I
think I was old enough tounderstand and to realize what I
(16:17):
was looking for.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Yeah, I guess in my mind I was just thinking of this
sheltered homeschool girl thatyou know, in a church
environment that doesn't know alot about all of that stuff.
But I forget.
You know we watch movies athome and there's love scenes.
And you know, I wasn't eventhinking of that, did it because
(16:43):
I would think, if you'rewatching it in movies, the
connotation is this is what lovelooks like.
This is what caring aboutsomeone would look like or this
is what someone was into me orsomeone likes me how they would
show it.
Is that what it was for you?
I don't want to put words inyour mouth, but do you remember
(17:06):
what the draw was for you, whyyou would want to watch?
I mean, was it just the act ofsex, or did it feel like there
was emotion involved in it foryou as well?
Speaker 3 (17:19):
I don't think it felt like emotion.
I think it just interesting,the act of it and the curiosity
okay um, I don't think I I puttwo and two together.
That, like this, was love Idon't think I ever made that
like.
This is what love is.
You know, this is what love hasto be.
(17:40):
This is um.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
I don't think I ever you're just purely interested in
in the okay interesting yeah sothen you, you started seeking
it out.
Yeah, okay I'm gonna let youtake it from here and just walk
us through what that looked likefor you, what your life began
(18:03):
to look like.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
From there, from high school, I was involved in my
youth group 100%.
I was there, I was in thepraise team.
I played the bass, I played theorgan.
I did all the things that Icould to be involved.
I enjoyed it, I loved it, Iloved God.
I had you know God moments thatwere deep and, you know,
(18:30):
revealing of who God was andthat he loved me.
But in the midst of that, Istill found myself going back to
pornography, and I don't Ithink it was in moments of like
high stress where I would Iwould be fine, I would go months
, year, you know not but then itwould just, you know, escalate
(18:52):
to this, and then it slowly, youknow, in 2011, my grandpa
passed away and my life, just itkind of just felt like out of
my hands you know, so it.
I felt like that's when it kindof peaked.
I was 18, I graduated, I was,you know, an adult navigating
(19:15):
adulthood, living at home.
Still, I went to CLC for likesix months.
I would come home and I wouldwatch pornography still.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
And while at college or when you were come to vice.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
I had to visit and um , so it kind of just got deeper
a little bit, darker a littlebit.
It just felt, I remembergetting to a point where it felt
like I can't do this anymore,like I don't want to do this
anymore, you still do it.
It's like any addiction,anything that you crave for.
(19:50):
That's how it was.
It was just I wanted God totake it.
I wanted to give it to him.
I would ask for forgiveness, Iwould feel regret, I would feel
all of the things, but somehow Istill found myself back there.
I still found myself in thesame place.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
I wanted to read a little bit of a definition about
sexual addiction.
Which pornography is classifiedas sexual addiction?
Patrick Carnes wrote a bookcalled out of the shadows and,
um, anyways, great book foranyone struggling with addiction
(20:34):
.
It's.
It's not a Christian book, um,but it is very informative about
sexual abuse and itsprogression.
But, um, he says that sexualaddiction is compulsion, loss of
control, secrecy andunmanageability, which are all
(20:54):
the things that you described.
Do you know, like, when youthink about your addiction to
pornography, what part of thosefour things was the hardest for
you to reconcile or to deal with?
Compulsion, secrecy and abilityto control it and, you know,
(21:17):
making it unmanageable for otherareas of your life.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
Um, probably like making it unmanageable for other
areas of my life.
I think it affected, it made myemotions like a roller coaster.
I felt like I would be good, Iwould be fine, then I'd feel
angry and then I'd feel this itwas like somebody addicted to
drugs, where they're like, youknow, they're on their high and
(21:43):
then they come down and I didn'trealize that that was affecting
me that much that it wasaffecting my emotions that way
and, um, the secrecy was anotherpart that I know affected me a
lot.
Um cause having to hidesomething like having to carry
that burden with you.
It's just as hard as tellingsomeone about it, you know,
(22:08):
Right, right.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
So do you know like when you look back, were there
times you know like people thatdrink, they'll come home from
work, they've had a long day,they just go drink right.
They go get a glass of wine,pop a beer, whatever Other
people, when they get mad.
They'll just go get drunkbecause they're mad like.
(22:30):
Do you know were you?
Were you triggered at certaintimes by different emotions to
indulge, or was it any time, anyday, for any reason?
Speaker 3 (22:43):
I think it was definitely certain emotions or
certain things that were playingout in my life at the time.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
So which emotions do you think most triggered your
need to escape throughpornography?
Speaker 3 (23:06):
Um, probably just conflict at home, or with my
parents or with family, wouldwould cause me to fill that.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
So like would it be stress, or would it be sadness,
or would it be anger?
Would it be frustration?
Speaker 3 (23:28):
I think it was all of those put together yeah.
I think I felt those all at thesame time and that's when it
would.
It would take me back down thatroad, yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Yeah, so how did you eventually get free?
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Um, I was.
It was in 2013, so I was 21, 22.
(24:09):
And I was sitting in a friend'scar and I had been praying again
for God to like help me tobring someone to.
You know, I would search forbooks online of people, that of
women that struggle, not justpeople and I never found anyone.
I didn't find a book.
I didn't find a book.
I didn't find a person.
I didn't find a random video onYouTube of a woman talking
about you know them, struggling.
I was sitting in a friend's carduring Sunday school one service
(24:30):
and I was telling her, probablyabout something dramatic in my
life at the time and she wastalking to me and she was, you
know, talking about her life andhow God had placed someone in
her life and she said that shehad these few friends that God
placed in her life at this time,and she said that one of them
was she was a Christian that youknow.
(24:53):
She went to church down theroad and she was addicted to
pornography before and she wasmarried and I don't think she
ever, I don't think she had areason to even say that.
I don't even think sheremembers saying saying that
when I went back to her, but shesaid it and in that moment I,
like my heart, stopped it and inthat moment I, like my heart
(25:17):
stopped, I, I felt like such a afreedom in that moment of like,
okay, there is somebody elseCause she did.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
She know at the time you're struggling with
pornography.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
Nobody did no, but you kept it all hidden.
And so she, she said that wefinished our conversation.
I didn't say anything at thatpoint, but I definitely went
home with hope, yeah, with hope,for sure.
And so the following Sunday Iwas like, hey, can we talk again
?
I need to talk to you.
(25:45):
And it was really hard to saythe words and to tell her and to
admit that I needed help andthat she knew who, somebody that
could help me, and I, I toldher that I was addicted to
pornography and that, um, youknew somebody that could help me
and and that was kind of it sheheld my hand, she said we'd,
(26:08):
we'd get through this togetherand we did, yeah, so so I think
it's really important to pauseand talk about, because you and
others that you know we've hadon the podcast has said I have
this thing in my life.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
I know it is blatant sin, I know that it is not
pleasing to God and I ask him totake it and he's not taking it
and you desire for him to takeit.
So now that you're on the otherside of that, what do you think
(26:48):
about that?
Why do you that God didn't justdeliver you from that when you
first prayed about itmiraculously, versus having to
walk it out in your life throughprocess?
Speaker 3 (27:05):
So it's funny because I actually was going back in my
journal and reading about thisUh, reading about this, uh, and
for me I realized in um, I hadrealized that I didn't want to
give it to him that I washolding onto it, and yet you
were praying.
(27:25):
I was praying that he would takeit and that he would, but it
was just such a security that II couldn't let it go Like I
wasn't ready to.
And I think, because of thesecrecy of it, because of the
darkness and because no one elseknows, I don't really have to
give it up.
You know, I don't really.
I could ask God and I couldplea and I really really want to
(27:47):
, but it just is so easy to tapback into that.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
So how did you discover Cause I think it's
that's so powerful what you justsaid.
How did you discover withinyourself, how did you make the
realization that you didn'treally want to give it to him?
You're saying all the rightthings, you're doing all the
right things, but yet you wereholding on.
How did you come to recognizethat after you went back through
(28:14):
your journals?
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Honestly, I had asked , I had told three people knew
about this and I had told, and II needed their help.
And they were in my life andthat's who I had decided to
trust at the time and who I feellike God placed in my life and
I had.
I told them.
I asked God, you know, to takeit.
(28:37):
I want him to take it out, I'mgoing to give it to me.
And they're both, at differenttimes, were like you're not
giving this to him, you're not,you're, you're holding onto it,
you're saying you want to, butyou're, you're keeping it.
And even after that point ofthem telling me that I still, I
still held on to it but Iremember that you were holding
(28:58):
on like I think I realized thatI was.
After that, I realized that I Iwasn't letting it go and that I
was being selfish and notletting god like being too good
for god, almost like he I can'tgo say I'm sorry because I did
this.
You know, god died on the crossfor me.
(29:18):
He, you know, he did this bigthing for me and I don't want to
let him forgive me.
I don't want to, you know, askfor his help.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
I want to keep it, even though I am asking, you
know like you felt like youdidn't deserve to be, you didn't
deserve to be forgiven, youdidn't deserve to have him take
it because of his sacrifice.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
I think my personality type as well of.
I realized over the years ofbefore this God's helped me a
lot, though, like wanting to,I'm like an all in person, so
like if you hurt me, then I waslike you don't deserve to be
(30:02):
part of my life.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
You know what I mean.
Just cut them all or nothing,yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
So I feel like for myself it was like I'm either
all or nothing with God in thatsense.
You know.
So I think for me when I lookback I was kind of like, well, I
think I was doing that.
I was like you know, God, youcan't have all of me.
You know like just that, itkind of connected for me when I
was reading it back.
And after going, going back andlooking at that I feel like I
(30:29):
was putting myself in that, inthat position of what I did to
other people.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Right, right.
But I also think you saidsomething really interesting is
that it was your securityblanket.
And when we give those thingsto God that make us feel like
ourself, or make us feel maybelike a false sense of control,
(30:55):
but it comforts us because youknow, nothing else is when
you're going through that kindof thing.
It's very hard to relinquishthat to him because the fear is
okay.
Now what?
What am I going to do If I giveyou this?
What's going to happen to mewhen the next time I feel like
(31:15):
this?
What's going to happen?
Where am I going to go?
How am I going to feel better?
Right, and not having thatexperience with God to know he's
going to be there and pick youup and take care of it?
It's so hard to surrender.
Yeah, fear plays such a role inso many areas of our life but,
(31:38):
um, so you were just thinkingthat, okay, if I'm going to live
for God, even though at thetime you were doing all the
things that you thought youshould be doing yeah.
So how long did it take?
What do you know, like whatsteps you took before you were
ready to actually surrender thatand really make change?
Speaker 3 (32:04):
Like within this time of from when I told nobody to
um I think it was about eightmonths or so of like the back
and forth of okay, I slipped up,okay this, okay this.
And there was a moment where Ifelt like God had delivered me,
like I had given it to him andhe had taken it, and from that
(32:28):
point forward, there was no,there was no going back there
was no, there was no going back.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
So the slip-ups, because I think that's a very
important part of coming out ofa lifestyle that has been what
we've known for some time.
You know, it's not just clear,concise cookie cutter.
Okay, boom, boom, god,everything's gone.
Although sometimes God does doit that way in people.
They just never look back andthey just move forward and
(32:59):
that's it.
And I don't know if it's harderfor those of us who grew up in
church.
I wonder.
I haven't done any researcharound that or tested that
theory, but I wonder for thoseof us that grew up in church if
our process is longer because Ofall the things we know, yes,
kind of.
Yeah, knowledge can sometimes bea hindrance to us.
(33:21):
But I forgot what I was saying.
Eight months it took you towork through that.
Oh, I was saying I think thatwe have to have grace sometimes
for the slip ups too.
Do you remember feeling like aton of condemnation during that,
now that the cat was out of thebag and you were really trying
(33:45):
to release it to God, and thenyou would fall back and slip or
use, or you know, look at pornagain.
Did you feel condemnation ordid you feel conviction?
Speaker 3 (34:00):
I felt conviction at that point and having someone in
my life that went through whatI went through was it was a
godsend because she was able torelate to me and help me and
lead me back.
You know, she gave me the bankand then I needed it and moved
(34:22):
forward.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
You know what I mean, but not in a way that I felt
Accountability and correction.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
So having that was it was incredible.
Yeah, you know um because when Idid, um, have slip ups when I
fell, I and having that was itwas incredible, yeah, you know,
because when I did have slip upswhen I fell, I, you know I beat
myself up, I was mad at myself,I, you know I got to this point
and then I'm still.
I'm still failing, you knowmyself, but she always directed
(34:51):
me back to the word of God andto be in the word and I realized
that through that, that was theonly thing that kept me going
on the right path was havingthat.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Yeah Well, I think you said something too that's
really good.
You said you were lettingyourself down, and I think
that's a difference.
When we try to do this forsomeone else versus our will is
actually involved to want tomake the change, you know, from
our heart's place, to really toreally serve the Lord, to really
(35:26):
want to please him.
You know, and it's coming fromour free will.
It's so much.
It's so different than tryingto do it for someone else.
I think that's where thedifference between having a
relationship with God is versusbeing a religious person,
(35:47):
because when it's a relationship, we're really doing it for all
the right reasons, and I guessreligion can be that too right.
People want to be Christiansfor all the right reasons, but
until you get it for yourself,it's just so much easier to fall
.
So where does that leave younow?
(36:14):
Have you talked about this verymuch in the open space?
Speaker 3 (36:19):
Not I have mentioned it a few times um, probably to a
Bible study group.
You know, you kind of justblurt it out and move on with
the rest of what you're saying.
Um, but I don't think I've ever.
You know, you kind of justblurt it out and move on with
the rest of what you're saying,but I don't think I've ever.
You know, really I haven't satdown with anyone.
That's gone through, you know,and has the struggle, but every
(36:43):
time that I do say it I feel alittle bit freer still, even to
this day as long as it's been.
I still feel like a weight islifted.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
Yeah, so why do you think we don't talk about
pornography in the church?
We definitely don't talk aboutit among women, but do you think
we talk about it very muchamong men either?
Speaker 3 (37:06):
No, I don't.
I mean.
The struggle is probably evengreater for a man which is.
You know, it's prevalent, it'sknown, so man which is you know,
it's prevalent, it's known, soI even so, I feel like that
should be something that'stalked about, especially in this
day, like I mean you could,anyone that watches TV or
YouTube or whatever half nakedgirl pops up on a commercial you
(37:30):
know, and then by text messagesto senior citizens' telephones.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
It's infuriating, it's just there, it's crazy.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
The fact that we don't talk about it is, I feel
like it's a disservice to men towomen, especially to women,
because they do struggle.
The same thing that a guy sees,a woman sees, and you know, we
don't know if that they'reinclined to to fall or to have
those sexual desires in that wayum, but it definitely needs to
(38:06):
be talked about more, yeah yeahI think I don't know why we
don't talk about it more either,other than pornography in
general is a sensitive subjectbecause it conjures up images,
right?
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Anybody who's had carnal knowledge automatically
knows what pornography means,and if they've already got
carnal knowledge, you canpicture something in an instant
in your mind, and so you don'treally want that going out to
the whole church.
You know I could see, but Iwanted to share some statistics
(38:45):
that I think you might findinteresting.
I don't know if you have everlooked them up have ever looked
them up but 41% of women admitto viewing pornography online.
This was a study done in 2020,I believe 41% of women say that
(39:10):
they view pornography online,compared to 67% men.
That's not a big variation.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
No, that's so close.
Almost exactly the same.
That's a lot.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
There's another study that was done, so there's a few
studies out there.
Another study said that 60.2%of women view pornography,
compared to 91.5% of men.
I'm inclined that a lot.
It's so common among menbecause so many men grow up with
(39:44):
it and it's been sociallyaccepted as normative, certainly
not in the church world, but inevery other part of society.
It's just considered a guy'sconversation Right, but this is
what I think is your heartbeatand where I think that the
(40:06):
church could maybe grow intodealing with.
To dealing with For 14 to 18year olds.
(40:27):
57% of teen girls reportviewing pornography.
So that is 57% of our 14 yearolds to 18 year olds, high
school age and women 18 to 30years old.
In the United States that wasall United States as well 76% of
women report watching pornbetween the ages of 18 to 30.
So very young demographic.
Speaker 3 (40:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Which is alarming, I know.
In my practice I've had juniorhigh kiddos and high school
kiddos.
The thing now is Snapchat andsnapping naked pictures or video
.
I mean crazy stuff.
(41:18):
Kids grade because they'rechildren and they themselves
have sent a picture which ischild pornography, and anyone
that distributes that which kidsshare with friends.
They're now distributing childpornography.
It's very serious, but kiddosdon't recognize that, and so I
(41:42):
think there is a hugeopportunity for our Sunday
school and youth to kind ofeducate in that area and for you
to really kind of educate inthat area and for you to really
talk about it and share yourstory or I don't know, I don't
know what that would look likefor you, brianna, but I know you
(42:09):
have a heart to really helppeople that might struggle with
it, and I think what used to bethe norm in my generation has
changed quite a bit for yourgeneration and then the
generation after you.
Speaker 3 (42:20):
Yeah, it's definitely getting worse and worse and
those numbers are getting higherand higher.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
Right.
Speaker 3 (42:27):
They're not going down Right.
The access that we have now isinsane.
Right the access that we havenow is it's insane.
I can't imagine being stuck nowhow I was, you know, 10, eight
years ago, but I definitely wantto bring light to this because
(42:49):
it's obviously there.
You know the numbers are thereand it's not going away.
It would be one thing if it wasgoing down and it was going away
.
But it's not, unfortunately,and women get stuck.
We feel alone anyways most ofthe time and you feel insecure
(43:12):
and all these feelings as awoman.
And to add this and to have toadmit it to somebody is it's
hard.
You know I thank God that I hadthat little escape of you know
it already being said.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
All I had to do was, you know, bring my part to it
and meet up with somebody, rightmy part to it and meet up with
somebody Right and I think youknow the spiritual ramifications
of this is, I think,significant, because I always
like to clarify sin.
I'm pretty sensitive to thatword, I don't really like that
(43:48):
word, even though the Bible isripe with that word, but I like
to really clarify that sin isseparation from God, because I
think in religious cultureoverall it's been kind of a
dirty word and used to createcondemnation and I don't think
(44:08):
that's probably across the board.
Like I said, I'm just fairlysensitive to it across the board
.
Like I said, I'm just fairlysensitive to it.
But secrecy is one of theenemy's biggest tools that he
uses against people in generalbut definitely against children
of God, is to create anenvironment where secrecy exists
(44:30):
.
And so you know, I want to talka little bit about the
addiction piece and where thespiritual aspects come into play
, because I think that it's easyto dismiss porn as just oh,
it's no big deal, but theobsession.
(44:53):
So in Patrick Karn's book hetalks about the cycle of
addiction and sexual abuse beingpreoccupation, which in a
cognitive behavioral frameworkwe would call that obsession
right.
So thoughts, emotions and thenour behavior.
(45:14):
So the obsession of this iswhat I need.
This is what I need.
This is what I'm going to do.
As soon as I get free, as soonas I can get away from somebody,
I'm going to going to, going to, going to right and then the
ritualization how that comesinto play.
(45:35):
Right, everybody has their ownritual.
The way they do somethingchanges.
So some people could be theirphone in their car, away from
someone.
Others it could be in theshower with their phone.
Others, it could be like youknow, under their blanket with
their phone, but everyone has away of which they do stuff their
(45:56):
phone.
Others, it could be like youknow, under their blanket with
their phone, or, but everyonehas a way of which they do stuff
.
If someone's going to get drunk,they've got the way they're
going to go get drunk.
If someone's going to use, theyknow exactly what environment
to create so they can escape, togo, find a way to get high.
And so the ritualization piece,compulsion, compulsive behavior
.
And so the ritualization piece,compulsion, compulsive behavior
(46:17):
, that's actually the act ofwhat you're going to do.
However, you're going to fillthat need, fill that void,
create the outcome you desire,and then the despair,
perpetuated through shame.
And that's being yourself up,feeling bad about yourself.
And if you're a Christian,that's where the enemy is really
(46:38):
going to come in and furthercondemn somebody and really
really make you feel even lessthan and when we act in ways
that separate us from God.
It makes it so much harder forus to forgive ourselves, even
though God is standing therewaiting to forgive us because we
(47:00):
know our behavior.
It makes it really hard forpeople to forgive themselves and
accept the forgiveness that God.
But I had heard a story ofsomebody who had a perpetual
masturbation.
(47:22):
I don't know if it was anaddiction or if it was just a
way that they released theiremotion or whatever, but they
had reported having a dream thatthey saw themselves with a
snake wrapped around their bodyand just the tail was hanging
(47:43):
out and under their bed thesnake had hatched several eggs
and little tiny snakes wascrawling around underneath the
bed and that person reporteddirectly linking it to their
struggle with that.
And up until that time theydidn't really know if
(48:08):
masturbation was a sin or not.
They didn't really know if itwas okay.
If it wasn't okay, it was likea gray area.
They weren't really sure itwasn't masturbated to
pornography and so there wassome confusion there and until
they had sort of reported that,I thought, wow, I wonder what
(48:33):
the spiritual ramifications are,how the enemy, I think.
I think the explanation of thesnake being wrapped around the
body is so very telling, becausewe are flesh, you know soul and
spirit, and if the devil hasour flesh, soul and spirit, and
(48:59):
if the devil has our flesh.
It makes it really reallydifficult to overcome in our
spirit and in our soul.
So I know that's a lot to sayright there, but what are your
thoughts?
What do you think youexperienced in the flesh piece
and in the spiritual piece?
Did you ever connect those twobeyond just oh, this is wrong.
(49:19):
I'm not.
I don't know if my question iseven clear, but I mean, aside
from just the sin aspect, didyou ever see it in any other
kind of spiritual significance?
Speaker 3 (49:35):
not that that's not important, it's totally
important I think I always seenit as the sin aspect and
definitely separating me fromgod um and putting that space
there, because I know that whenI was coming out of it and when
(50:01):
my friend was helping me, it wasstaying in the word that kept
me grounded, and God is the wordthat's him Right right.
And it was.
If I wasn't in the word, if Iwasn't studying, if I wasn't at
a Bible study, if I wasn't doingsomething and I didn't have my
(50:23):
thoughts, you know, captive, Ididn't have my conversations
pure that's so good If I didn'thave, you know, just joking
around with friends.
That kept me a little fleshlyor a little.
Speaker 1 (50:34):
It wasn't even a bad conversation, so good.
Speaker 2 (50:35):
You know, it's just a little seed, right, right.
Speaker 3 (50:40):
You know there were things I had to take out.
Speaker 1 (50:43):
And I didn't even realize.
You know, I didn't realize itwas you know country music that
was keeping me there.
Speaker 3 (50:48):
Or these friends that I had to just stay away from
for a little bit.
But if I allowed those thingsto keep going and I didn't stay
in the word, then I failed, Iwould give in, but staying
connected to God that way waswhat kept me definitely grounded
and connected back to God and Irealized that I've said, I've
(51:14):
said this several times, um, todifferent people, but you know,
I feel like when God created us,you know there was this space
that was meant just for him andus and we fill it with all these
different things and I feellike that's what I did.
I filled it with this sin and,yes, I had other sin in my life.
There were other things that Ifelt and that I, you know,
(51:35):
probably picked up again and butthere was nothing like this and
I think it was the selfcondemnation that kept I kept
feeling it even with that.
You know the thoughts of likeyou can't be forgiven, no one's
gonna, no one's gonna thinkyou're you're, you know you're
fully out of this sin, butreminding myself that God loved
(52:00):
me, that he died for me, thathis word was true and it kept me
, definitely kept me.
Speaker 2 (52:07):
That's so good because you were focused on him
and where you were going andwhat was true.
And you're so right how all thethings that seem insignificant
really can be triggers to get usright back into that emotion
that caused us.
Speaker 3 (52:27):
Oh, it was yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:28):
I heard a song the other day.
I was in a.
Where was I?
I was in a.
Where was I?
I was in a restaurant.
I was in some place outside ofmy control and this song came on
the radio and, man, it justsent me to a whole different
place and I was like I was soaware of just how much, how
(52:58):
narrow my life has become inhaving to keep all of those
things out.
Nothing wrong with the song,but it was where it took me and
my thoughts and my emotions andhow it made me feel Things can
just pull us right back soeasily.
You know that there's a reasonthat when we come anonymous
narcotics anonymous, you knowalcoholics, anonymous, whatever
(53:41):
it is they tell them go to 90meetings in 90 days, cause you
have to just stay laser focusedon where you're headed and what
your goal is and and reallycreate some separation from the
old life that you used to have.
I believe that, yeah, and that'swhat we do when we turn our
life over to the Lord right.
The Bible says letting go ofthose things which are behind
and reaching towards that whichis in front, pressing towards
(54:04):
the mark of the high prize, andI think that that's you know.
But it's so nice to see itbroken down in practical terms,
like you said, just having tostay grounded in the word.
Speaker 3 (54:17):
And I feel like that's hard for someone that
doesn't have somebody.
I had my friend who went?
Through who recovered frompornography, and if I didn't
have her to keep reminding me,if I didn't have the 90 days of
meetings with her writings withher.
I.
I don't know what that wouldlook like now you know, yeah,
(54:40):
but it is important to you know,have someone that's Christ
minded to keep you and go alongwith you and remind you.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (54:51):
Because you know Jesus told Peter in the in the
garden when he asked him to pray.
You know the spirit is willingbut the flesh is weak you know,
and I think maybe, now that I'mjust thinking about that, I I
wonder if that snake wrappedaround that body was the flesh
(55:13):
being you know.
So, taken Like the flesh isweak, it will suck you back in
in a second.
You know, and I don't know Ineed to think further about that
, but yeah, anyways, I do.
What would you say to somebody,then, who finds themselves
(55:35):
addicted to pornography or evensex or anything that is
comforting them instead of God?
Speaker 3 (55:49):
I would definitely say to find that one person that
you can tell.
The first thing is tellingsomebody, the more it's kept a
secret, the more it's hidden,the more it's not out there.
I feel like the devil likes tokeep people like that, like
bound by themselves, can't tellanybody yeah isolated and find
(56:13):
that person you could tell, andthe more you say it, the more
free you'll feel for sure.
But for me it was tellingsomebody and then we kind of got
my phone on lockdown and thenwe got in the Word and in Bible
studies and stayed connected.
Speaker 2 (56:37):
How did you get your phone on lockdown?
Did you use Covenant Eyes?
Speaker 3 (56:44):
I didn't, but they took my phone and deleted all
the apps and put parent locks onit.
Speaker 1 (56:51):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (56:53):
Did it that way.
Speaker 2 (56:55):
And that was your choice.
That was something you werewilling to do because you really
wanted to get free from thisright.
Yeah, I'm so glad you said tellsomebody because, like I said,
the enemy works best in secret.
And so children that are abused, children that are sexually
abused that is what keeps themstruggling also is they never
(57:17):
tell anyone until finallythey're in their adulthood or
their life has becomeunmanageable, and then they
finally connect the dots and saysomething but tell, tell, tell.
Yeah, it's so important to tellsomebody.
(57:38):
It is.
It is yeah, and you journaled alot.
Speaker 3 (57:40):
I did the whole time yeah.
I wanted to have a, I wanted toremember, I wanted to help
somebody, I wanted to be able tohand someone my journal and say
you know, you can do this too.
Speaker 2 (57:53):
Yeah.
So what would you tell somebodyabout journaling, like, how did
that help you, what?
How did you even know to pickup a journal and write when you
were young, like that?
Speaker 3 (58:04):
I always liked journaling, taking notes.
I felt like that was just a wayto express myself.
I'm an introvert, so for me itwas easiest just to write my
feelings down and get them outthat way.
So for this, like I said, Iwanted to have something to
remember.
I wanted to go back and be ableto tell someone that they could
(58:27):
do it too.
I wanted to write a book,honestly that's why I kept it.
I wanted to remember thosethings, yeah.
Speaker 2 (58:33):
Well, you're going to write a book.
You got to write a book becauseI think you know that was quite
a while ago and the Lord, Ithink, put that in your heart.
For you to write a book becausethat was you know, that was
your initial thought, you know.
I think, that's how God works,anyways.
Speaker 3 (58:53):
Someone journaling, I would say definitely do it,
even if that's your first way ofsaying I'm addicted to
pornography.
Write it down, get it out theresome way and from there kind of
keep going.
I think we don't really expressourselves when you're stuck in
that.
There's no way to expressyourself.
So you can at least get it downand gather your thoughts.
(59:14):
It might be a little easier totell somebody or say hey, read
my, read my notebook.
Here it is.
However, you got to get it out.
Speaker 2 (59:23):
Yeah, I mean, and sometimes that is the easiest
because they can't say it inperson, it's, it's so shaming or
it's too difficult, but you canhand someone your book and say
yeah.
I want to share this with you.
Speaker 3 (59:35):
Sometimes that is way easier for people to do.
Speaker 2 (59:38):
And, yeah, that's what you have to do Do it, yeah,
and you know, make sure youpick carefully who you share
with.
Yes, if you have a youth, youknow a youth leader or Sunday
school teacher, you know.
Pick somebody that that youthat is older, you know you
never know if you can trustsomeone until you risk trusting
(01:00:00):
them.
Um.
But sharing with your peers umcan be tricky because usually
we're learning how to trust, youknow, when we're young, trying
to grow up, so that's not alwaysthe best and to like if I
thought about any friends that Iwould have told at that point
there's none in my circle thatwould have been able to help me.
Speaker 3 (01:00:21):
You know, they would have just been like, oh, I'm
sorry, or you know it wouldn'thave been a a direct push in the
right direction of getting morehelp you know, because
sometimes you know, maybe theperson you tell doesn't know how
to help you, but they candirect you to a counselor or to
somebody that that can.
Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
Yeah, so let's see what else I wanted to clarify.
Fifty four percent ofpracticing Christians report
consuming porn and 40%practicing Christian women
report consuming porn.
So that's you know thosenumbers in the national survey
(01:01:05):
and among Christians are reallythe same.
Speaker 3 (01:01:09):
That's half the women in our church.
You know if you kind of thinkof it that way it's crazy.
Speaker 2 (01:01:17):
Yeah, it's much more prevalent, I think, than I mean.
I didn't really even know itsprevalency until I started
looking at the data, knowing wewere going to be doing this,
especially among Christians.
I know it's out there, I knowit's available.
It's not everyone's vice, but Ithink in the Christian context
(01:01:39):
I don't know if this is true I'mspeculating.
I wonder if we tend to reachfor things that seem more
socially acceptable than thingsthat aren't Like.
For example, because alcohol islegal, a vast majority of
people would choose to drinkover illicit drugs because they
(01:02:02):
could rationalize in their mindthat it's legal.
Speaker 3 (01:02:04):
It's socially acceptable too.
Speaker 2 (01:02:06):
Right, I've heard that so many times.
And then when marijuana becamelegal, then that didn't seem so
bad either.
And alcohol use is actuallydecreased among youth, because
marijuana use has increased andamong women it's off the charts.
Girls, teenagers, are smokingway way more, maybe even more,
(01:02:29):
than boys, but marijuana useamong girls is so increased.
Instead of alcohol, alcohol isreally taking a back seat.
Yeah, it's so interesting, butyeah, I think that I don't know
how to have this conversationother than the podcast.
(01:02:49):
In a youth environment, in achurch environment?
Do you have any suggestions?
We were kind of talking about aquestion there.
How would you see this rollingout If you could say we really
need to get this in the churches?
What resources do you thinkwould be useful or that would
(01:03:12):
need to be created?
What would have helped?
Speaker 3 (01:03:26):
you Probably, if somebody just I mean, I don't
know, I tried.
After all of this, I did a bookwith our youth girls.
That book, every Young Woman'sBattle.
Speaker 2 (01:03:44):
It wasn't exactly this.
Speaker 3 (01:03:48):
It kind of covers a variety of topics, but that was
my way of trying to get it outthere.
I don't feel like it fully didthe right thing.
I don't feel like it hit theright mark, yeah.
But I don't even know untilhearing that someone else.
I guess just this yeah, hearingthat someone else went through
(01:04:10):
it, hearing that there wassomeone else that could help me,
it made all the difference.
If I had maybe a book orsomething that I could purchase
and read and kind of get thebravery to be able to tell
somebody else that I struggledmay have helped.
I guess that's what I lookedfor mostly.
I looked for books of someonethat was struggling.
(01:04:33):
I looked for podcasts.
I looked for books of someonethat was struggling.
I looked for podcasts, I lookedfor websites, and there wasn't
much for women out there, if anyTen years ago, right?
Speaker 2 (01:04:42):
Yeah, I think it might be being talked about a
little bit more than it was then, but I still don't think among
Christians it's probably talkedabout very much.
Speaker 3 (01:04:54):
Well, I can't even imagine as like a married woman
having to.
I mean, you have to admit thatto your husband and you have to.
You know, it's a wholedifferent ball game there.
How was?
Speaker 2 (01:05:07):
your husband.
When you admitted did he, didhe think it was a big deal Cause
cause guys, so many guys useporn.
Do you feel like he understoodhow big of a deal it was for you
or do you feel like he thought,oh, he understood how big of a
deal it was.
Speaker 3 (01:05:24):
yeah, we kind of had that talk when we were dating,
when things started gettingserious and you know he
understood.
Speaker 2 (01:05:35):
Yeah, a lot of questions to ask there, but.
I won't because it's prettyintimate.
But yeah, well, I'm excited,bree, in the fact that you have
a passion for this and you wantto really see you know some
resources created and figure outwhat this might look like for
(01:05:56):
you and your ministry.
You and Michael have your owncompany, grayson Harmony Company
, where you guys make shirts andhats and all kinds of swag for
churches and and and logos forcompanies and such.
So I'm excited to see where yougo with this, what this could
(01:06:21):
become in terms of a ministrytool for you, because I don't
think we go through things forno reason.
I think God uses everything inour life to help someone else,
right?
Speaker 3 (01:06:33):
Yeah, I'm excited.
Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
Look for it.
Speaker 3 (01:06:34):
God uses everything in our life to help someone else
, right?
Yeah, I'm excited, look for it.
Hopefully it'll be here soon.
Yeah, but I just want people toknow there's hope.
Speaker 2 (01:06:44):
Yeah, and that God really can set the captive free.
Speaker 3 (01:06:49):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (01:06:49):
Yeah, any last thoughts before we finish?
Speaker 3 (01:06:54):
I don't think so.
Speaker 2 (01:06:56):
Well, thank you very much for being vulnerable and
sharing your story.
And if there's anyone out therewho struggles, any females,
particularly if you strugglewith pornography or suspect your
children I mean, if you're aparent, check your kid's phone,
(01:07:16):
Do not, please do not take forgranted that your children are
sweet and innocent, becausesweet and innocent kids get sent
stuff and their friends talk tothem about stuff.
Even if they don't want to know,even if they're not asking they
, they do become exposed.
So have the conversation withyour children at least, and
(01:07:39):
reach out to us.
We'll definitely send youresources, we'll send you.
You know I can send you what Ihave and connect you with
Brianna.
If somebody out there needs amentor or anything, so you can
find us on our websitetheredeemedbacksliderorg and we
will connect you.
So thank you so much for beinghere.
Speaker 3 (01:08:00):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:08:01):
Yeah, Thanks everybody.
Hope to see you again soon.
Speaker 1 (01:08:04):
Bye.
We are so glad you joined us.
If you have a story ofredemption or have worn the
label of a backslider, we wouldlove to hear from you.
If you'd like to support ourministry, your donation will be
tax deductible.
Visit our website attheredeemedbacksliderorg.
(01:08:25):
We hope you will tune in forour next episode.
Welcome to the Redeemed Backslider with your
host, kathy Chastain.
Christian-based psychotherapistand Redeemed Backslider.
This podcast is dedicated tothose who have wandered but are
ready to return to thelife-changing power of grace and
the freedom found in Jesus.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Hi, welcome to the Redeemed Backslider.
I'm your host, kathy Chastain.
I'm a Redeemed Backslider andI'm a Christian-based marriage
and family therapist.
With me in the studio today isBrianna Arango, and she has a
very interesting story to tell,one that I think affects many
people in our churches, but onethat also is not talked about
(00:45):
very much, and so I was reallyreally happy that she was
willing to be vulnerable andcome on the podcast today and
share a little bit about herstory.
So welcome to Studio Bree.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
So where should we begin?
Because you are not really abackslider as what we would kind
of term backsliding, but Ithink there's a lot of, and
actually, now that I think aboutit, I don't know if it could be
called backsliding when you'rein the church, you attend church
(01:22):
, but then you have a secret,separate life that nobody really
knows about.
So would you call thatbacksliding, or would you call
that a fall, or would you justcall that wrestling through sin?
How would you think of that?
Speaker 3 (01:42):
That's a good question.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
How did you think of that?
That's a good question.
How?
Speaker 3 (01:47):
did you think of it for yourself?
I guess I would consider it.
I don't know, Maybe just itjust felt like continual sinning
.
You know, I don't think I wouldhave considered myself a
backslider.
I mean, I was very involved inchurch.
Still, I was very Pursuing God.
(02:11):
Yes, I never left him in thatsense or left the church, but I
did have sin twisted up in mylife very deeply yeah very
deeply yeah very deeply.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Yeah, I think you're right.
I don't think it wasbacksliding.
I think there is sometimespeople that attend church who
are in a backslidden statebecause they're willfully
pursuing a secret, separate life.
But in your case you weren't.
You were just wrestling througha difficult time and not
(02:52):
knowing what to do about it.
So you were raised in church.
Your mom was already in churchat this time, right, yes?
And your dad, when you wereborn, your dad was not yet in
church.
Your mom was coming without him.
Is that accurate?
So tell me a little bit aboutyour childhood and growing up.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Yeah, I was raised in church.
I attended with my mom.
My dad was not in church.
He was a functional drug addict, an alcoholic, all of those
things.
He came in when I was.
I believe I was about 12, 10,11, 12.
(03:38):
I'm so sorry about the timehere.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Yeah, it's hard to remember, but around.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
there is when he came in To church.
To church, yes.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Now, was your mom in church when they got married or
did she get in church?
Because I think your mom kindof was raised in church, right,
so was she in church when theymet and got married?
Speaker 3 (04:02):
I believe my grandma was in church and going, but my
mom didn't fully practice goingto church and living a Christian
lifestyle.
I guess you can say but soonafter I was born is when she
gave her life to God completely.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Okay, and so at 10, 11, 12, you were just a
youngster and had your othersiblings come along, yet yes, my
brother.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
So my sister, my younger sister, we're 10 years
apart, and my brother, I believe, we're like 18 months apart.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
So it was him and I.
We were super close growing up.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
So then you grew up in church then for all intents
and purposes.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Yes, okay.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Okay.
So then, when did you, how oldwere you when you began to have
struggles, when you began to youknow, I guess grow up and
realize things were not okay inthe world?
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Probably, I guess, grow up and realize things were
not okay in the world.
Probably when I was 12, when Ibecame a teenager and started
junior high, high school, it wasall kind of prevalent there.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Yeah, junior high is a really big turning point for
kids and these days it seemslike fifth and sixth grade, like
I feel like it's startingyounger, when kids are really
becoming of age and I a lotprobably depends on household as
well, but sixth grade seems tobe a turning point now in this
(05:45):
generation where they're reallybeginning to be aware of things
around them.
So what was it for you?
Walk us through.
What started to change for youin your life?
Speaker 3 (06:00):
I think I kind of, let's see, going into junior
high I actually homeschooled.
I went to junior high for acouple months and it was.
I hated it.
I came and all my friendschanged.
(06:21):
All my friends changed.
Um, it was, you know, parties,drugs, sex, boys, girls, girls
and girls, boys and boys and um,for me, it just my spirit
wasn't, it didn't, it wasn'tconnecting, you know, and I
realized that that was like Icouldn't do that.
(06:41):
So I homeschooled, actually fortwo years and then I went to
high school and I think when Iwent to high school I started
having more friends and I feellike my dad had come into church
(07:04):
, I think when I was like 12years old and my home life
didn't completely change Growingup, I mean, my parents were
young, my parents were 17 when Iwas born, so there was a lot of
navigating navigating lifethere.
And with my dad, you know, notbeing in church.
It was.
It was a lot for my mom and Ithink that my home life affected
(07:29):
a lot of it.
I think I felt a lot of stressand disconnect from it.
Um so I found, I guess, my outin a sense in pornography and,
um, I wouldn't say a comfort, Idon't know the right word.
I guess out would be the rightword.
A way to cope.
(07:50):
Yeah, a way to cope.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Were you always?
Because you're a little bit shy, I guess Is shy the right word.
Were you always like that as ayoungster or do you think you
grew into be more like that,with the home environment being
a struggle, with one parentserving God?
Clearly that would be difficultwith a parent that was
(08:16):
struggling with addiction.
Do you feel like you're alwayskind of on the quiet side and
shy, or do you think youdeveloped into that with just
the way you grew up?
Speaker 3 (08:30):
I think I was always that way.
I grew up with a birthmark onmy face.
Now I have a scar, but it wasbig on my face until I was about
12 or 13.
So a lot of people would alwaysask me questions.
They would make fun of me inschool.
So I think it developed andstarted kind of there.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
So you were that reserved, pretty self-conscious
probably, about that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then so adversity in home,which happens in most homes you
know, but adversity in the homeenvironment might have affected
you differently than what itmight have affected another
(09:12):
personality type.
Do you want to elaborate onthat, like how, what did it do
for you?
How did it affect you, wouldyou say?
Did it scare you?
Did it?
Speaker 3 (09:25):
I don't think it scared me, I think I just pulled
back and was more reserved,even more so to myself.
I found myself depressed a lot.
I would say I kind of wouldfall.
(09:45):
I would feel myself like fallinto a, my deep hole.
I guess I would say, um and it,I guess it affected me that way
, and that's when I would bealone and want to be alone, or
by myself not wanting to bearound people want to be alone,
or by myself not wanting to bearound people.
(10:08):
Um, very um.
My emotions were reallyrollercoaster up and down.
I feel like I would havemoments of happiness and then I
remember being really sad orreally just depressed, like in
that, in that state of mind, um,and being alone.
That's where I found myselfsearching.
I guess.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Did you feel lonely, like when you were alone?
Do you remember feeling lonely?
Or were you feeling mostlydepressed, like?
Can you recall what yourthought patterns were?
What was really causing you tofeel what you were feeling?
Speaker 3 (10:56):
I would.
I don't recall, I would just.
I mean, I guess the chaos athome was what caused me to to
feel that way, to just, you know, shut myself out.
(11:16):
That would probably be.
I don't, I don't know, thatwould probably be.
I don't, I don't know.
I'm trying to to dig back inand remember.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
At that point you're probably just surviving and it's
hard to, but I know that youhave journaled, so I wondered if
you went back and looked andkind of you know, just in
hindsight, looked at what wasgoing on for you back then, kind
of you know just in hindsight,looked at what was going on for
you back then.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
I remember in, I guess, the peak of, like, my
addiction to pornography.
My life felt like it wasspiraling, I guess, and that was
just.
I mean, my dad was saved at thepoint.
My dad was in church.
My home life was, you know, itwas getting better because, you
know, both my parents were inchurch.
They were driving for the samething, um, but, like my, my
(12:08):
grandparents had passed away, um, they were a big part of my
life, um, within years apart, um, and I remember just feeling
just super out of place withinmyself.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
That's a lot, yeah, I mean, when you feel out of
place within yourself, it's hardto know where to go because you
don't really know yourself, youdon't feel comfortable in your
own skin.
Yeah, so then, how did you findpornography?
Speaker 3 (12:59):
I was introduced to it at a young age.
I would say I think most peopleare what's young, how young.
I feel like I was about sevenor eight years old, maybe nine,
at my grandparents' house.
My uncle was.
I had a young uncle, so I meanmy dad was young, so my uncle
(13:20):
was even younger and he livedwith my grandparents.
Uncle was even younger, um, andhe lived with my grandparents,
and I think I was just in hisroom trying to find cartoons and
I stumbled upon pornography onthe tv and um, I remember just
being infatuated.
You know my little eyes you know, what's happening before me and
(13:40):
um, and you know that was thefirst time and I, I think I
remember just remembering thatthat never really left my
subconscious.
You know my thoughts.
So when life started to feeloverwhelming, it took me back
(14:00):
there.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
So do you think it was curiosity, or like when you
saw it for the first time,because I could see where
curiosity would kind of be like.
What is this?
Like what you know um or it.
It clearly made a mark on youyeah at that age.
I'm asking.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
It was curiosity, for sure.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
What mark that was?
Yeah, yeah.
So when you started to struggle, that's where you went back in
your mind.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Mm, hmm, mm hmm, yeah .
Speaker 2 (14:36):
And then what happened?
Speaker 3 (14:39):
After that point.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Um, like did you?
You had a moment where I'm notokay, I don't feel comfortable
in my skin.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
I don't feel like I belong anywhere.
And you remembered what you sawwhen you were little.
Then did you immediately gosearch it out.
Did you know what it was bythen at that point oh, this is
quote, pornography.
Or did you just think it was bythen at that point, oh, this is
quote pornography.
Or did you just think it waslove, or I think as I got older
um, I from middle schoolobviously hearing my friends
talk about you know, sex and andparties and whatnot and it was
always around, it's around inmovies, it's around you know
it's it's there.
It's not full on, but you canget that little taste of you
(15:33):
know what, what you're lookingfor, yeah, and so I guess I I
kind of always was inclined alittle bit to movies and to
certain things and certain shows, just to like find that again,
without fully indulging you know, and going there and um, I
(15:53):
think in high school is when Ikind of fell off completely and
was like just went in, you know,head first.
I, I intentionally looked it up,I intentionally, uh would watch
.
I, I intentionally looked it up, I intentionally, uh would
watch.
And um, I just knew what I waslooking for at that point I
think I was old enough tounderstand and to realize what I
(16:17):
was looking for.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Yeah, I guess in my mind I was just thinking of this
sheltered homeschool girl thatyou know, in a church
environment that doesn't know alot about all of that stuff.
But I forget.
You know we watch movies athome and there's love scenes.
And you know, I wasn't eventhinking of that, did it because
(16:43):
I would think, if you'rewatching it in movies, the
connotation is this is what lovelooks like.
This is what caring aboutsomeone would look like or this
is what someone was into me orsomeone likes me how they would
show it.
Is that what it was for you?
I don't want to put words inyour mouth, but do you remember
(17:06):
what the draw was for you, whyyou would want to watch?
I mean, was it just the act ofsex, or did it feel like there
was emotion involved in it foryou as well?
Speaker 3 (17:19):
I don't think it felt like emotion.
I think it just interesting,the act of it and the curiosity
okay um, I don't think I I puttwo and two together.
That, like this, was love Idon't think I ever made that
like.
This is what love is.
You know, this is what love hasto be.
(17:40):
This is um.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
I don't think I ever you're just purely interested in
in the okay interesting yeah sothen you, you started seeking
it out.
Yeah, okay I'm gonna let youtake it from here and just walk
us through what that looked likefor you, what your life began
(18:03):
to look like.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
From there, from high school, I was involved in my
youth group 100%.
I was there, I was in thepraise team.
I played the bass, I played theorgan.
I did all the things that Icould to be involved.
I enjoyed it, I loved it, Iloved God.
I had you know God moments thatwere deep and, you know,
(18:30):
revealing of who God was andthat he loved me.
But in the midst of that, Istill found myself going back to
pornography, and I don't Ithink it was in moments of like
high stress where I would Iwould be fine, I would go months
, year, you know not but then itwould just, you know, escalate
(18:52):
to this, and then it slowly, youknow, in 2011, my grandpa
passed away and my life, just itkind of just felt like out of
my hands you know, so it.
I felt like that's when it kindof peaked.
I was 18, I graduated, I was,you know, an adult navigating
(19:15):
adulthood, living at home.
Still, I went to CLC for likesix months.
I would come home and I wouldwatch pornography still.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
And while at college or when you were come to vice.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
I had to visit and um , so it kind of just got deeper
a little bit, darker a littlebit.
It just felt, I remembergetting to a point where it felt
like I can't do this anymore,like I don't want to do this
anymore, you still do it.
It's like any addiction,anything that you crave for.
(19:50):
That's how it was.
It was just I wanted God totake it.
I wanted to give it to him.
I would ask for forgiveness, Iwould feel regret, I would feel
all of the things, but somehow Istill found myself back there.
I still found myself in thesame place.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
I wanted to read a little bit of a definition about
sexual addiction.
Which pornography is classifiedas sexual addiction?
Patrick Carnes wrote a bookcalled out of the shadows and,
um, anyways, great book foranyone struggling with addiction
(20:34):
.
It's.
It's not a Christian book, um,but it is very informative about
sexual abuse and itsprogression.
But, um, he says that sexualaddiction is compulsion, loss of
control, secrecy andunmanageability, which are all
(20:54):
the things that you described.
Do you know, like, when youthink about your addiction to
pornography, what part of thosefour things was the hardest for
you to reconcile or to deal with?
Compulsion, secrecy and abilityto control it and, you know,
(21:17):
making it unmanageable for otherareas of your life.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
Um, probably like making it unmanageable for other
areas of my life.
I think it affected, it made myemotions like a roller coaster.
I felt like I would be good, Iwould be fine, then I'd feel
angry and then I'd feel this itwas like somebody addicted to
drugs, where they're like, youknow, they're on their high and
(21:43):
then they come down and I didn'trealize that that was affecting
me that much that it wasaffecting my emotions that way
and, um, the secrecy was anotherpart that I know affected me a
lot.
Um cause having to hidesomething like having to carry
that burden with you.
It's just as hard as tellingsomeone about it, you know,
(22:08):
Right, right.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
So do you know like when you look back, were there
times you know like people thatdrink, they'll come home from
work, they've had a long day,they just go drink right.
They go get a glass of wine,pop a beer, whatever Other
people, when they get mad.
They'll just go get drunkbecause they're mad like.
(22:30):
Do you know were you?
Were you triggered at certaintimes by different emotions to
indulge, or was it any time, anyday, for any reason?
Speaker 3 (22:43):
I think it was definitely certain emotions or
certain things that were playingout in my life at the time.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
So which emotions do you think most triggered your
need to escape throughpornography?
Speaker 3 (23:06):
Um, probably just conflict at home, or with my
parents or with family, wouldwould cause me to fill that.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
So like would it be stress, or would it be sadness,
or would it be anger?
Would it be frustration?
Speaker 3 (23:28):
I think it was all of those put together yeah.
I think I felt those all at thesame time and that's when it
would.
It would take me back down thatroad, yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Yeah, so how did you eventually get free?
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Um, I was.
It was in 2013, so I was 21, 22.
(24:09):
And I was sitting in a friend'scar and I had been praying again
for God to like help me tobring someone to.
You know, I would search forbooks online of people, that of
women that struggle, not justpeople and I never found anyone.
I didn't find a book.
I didn't find a book.
I didn't find a person.
I didn't find a random video onYouTube of a woman talking
about you know them, struggling.
I was sitting in a friend's carduring Sunday school one service
(24:30):
and I was telling her, probablyabout something dramatic in my
life at the time and she wastalking to me and she was, you
know, talking about her life andhow God had placed someone in
her life and she said that shehad these few friends that God
placed in her life at this time,and she said that one of them
was she was a Christian that youknow.
(24:53):
She went to church down theroad and she was addicted to
pornography before and she wasmarried and I don't think she
ever, I don't think she had areason to even say that.
I don't even think sheremembers saying saying that
when I went back to her, but shesaid it and in that moment I,
like my heart, stopped it and inthat moment I, like my heart
(25:17):
stopped, I, I felt like such a afreedom in that moment of like,
okay, there is somebody elseCause she did.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
She know at the time you're struggling with
pornography.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
Nobody did no, but you kept it all hidden.
And so she, she said that wefinished our conversation.
I didn't say anything at thatpoint, but I definitely went
home with hope, yeah, with hope,for sure.
And so the following Sunday Iwas like, hey, can we talk again
?
I need to talk to you.
(25:45):
And it was really hard to saythe words and to tell her and to
admit that I needed help andthat she knew who, somebody that
could help me, and I, I toldher that I was addicted to
pornography and that, um, youknew somebody that could help me
and and that was kind of it sheheld my hand, she said we'd,
(26:08):
we'd get through this togetherand we did, yeah, so so I think
it's really important to pauseand talk about, because you and
others that you know we've hadon the podcast has said I have
this thing in my life.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
I know it is blatant sin, I know that it is not
pleasing to God and I ask him totake it and he's not taking it
and you desire for him to takeit.
So now that you're on the otherside of that, what do you think
(26:48):
about that?
Why do you that God didn't justdeliver you from that when you
first prayed about itmiraculously, versus having to
walk it out in your life throughprocess?
Speaker 3 (27:05):
So it's funny because I actually was going back in my
journal and reading about thisUh, reading about this, uh, and
for me I realized in um, I hadrealized that I didn't want to
give it to him that I washolding onto it, and yet you
were praying.
(27:25):
I was praying that he would takeit and that he would, but it
was just such a security that II couldn't let it go Like I
wasn't ready to.
And I think, because of thesecrecy of it, because of the
darkness and because no one elseknows, I don't really have to
give it up.
You know, I don't really.
I could ask God and I couldplea and I really really want to
(27:47):
, but it just is so easy to tapback into that.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
So how did you discover Cause I think it's
that's so powerful what you justsaid.
How did you discover withinyourself, how did you make the
realization that you didn'treally want to give it to him?
You're saying all the rightthings, you're doing all the
right things, but yet you wereholding on.
How did you come to recognizethat after you went back through
(28:14):
your journals?
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Honestly, I had asked , I had told three people knew
about this and I had told, and II needed their help.
And they were in my life andthat's who I had decided to
trust at the time and who I feellike God placed in my life and
I had.
I told them.
I asked God, you know, to takeit.
(28:37):
I want him to take it out, I'mgoing to give it to me.
And they're both, at differenttimes, were like you're not
giving this to him, you're not,you're, you're holding onto it,
you're saying you want to, butyou're, you're keeping it.
And even after that point ofthem telling me that I still, I
still held on to it but Iremember that you were holding
(28:58):
on like I think I realized thatI was.
After that, I realized that I Iwasn't letting it go and that I
was being selfish and notletting god like being too good
for god, almost like he I can'tgo say I'm sorry because I did
this.
You know, god died on the crossfor me.
(29:18):
He, you know, he did this bigthing for me and I don't want to
let him forgive me.
I don't want to, you know, askfor his help.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
I want to keep it, even though I am asking, you
know like you felt like youdidn't deserve to be, you didn't
deserve to be forgiven, youdidn't deserve to have him take
it because of his sacrifice.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
I think my personality type as well of.
I realized over the years ofbefore this God's helped me a
lot, though, like wanting to,I'm like an all in person, so
like if you hurt me, then I waslike you don't deserve to be
(30:02):
part of my life.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
You know what I mean.
Just cut them all or nothing,yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
So I feel like for myself it was like I'm either
all or nothing with God in thatsense.
You know.
So I think for me when I lookback I was kind of like, well, I
think I was doing that.
I was like you know, God, youcan't have all of me.
You know like just that, itkind of connected for me when I
was reading it back.
And after going, going back andlooking at that I feel like I
(30:29):
was putting myself in that, inthat position of what I did to
other people.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Right, right.
But I also think you saidsomething really interesting is
that it was your securityblanket.
And when we give those thingsto God that make us feel like
ourself, or make us feel maybelike a false sense of control,
(30:55):
but it comforts us because youknow, nothing else is when
you're going through that kindof thing.
It's very hard to relinquishthat to him because the fear is
okay.
Now what?
What am I going to do If I giveyou this?
What's going to happen to mewhen the next time I feel like
(31:15):
this?
What's going to happen?
Where am I going to go?
How am I going to feel better?
Right, and not having thatexperience with God to know he's
going to be there and pick youup and take care of it?
It's so hard to surrender.
Yeah, fear plays such a role inso many areas of our life but,
(31:38):
um, so you were just thinkingthat, okay, if I'm going to live
for God, even though at thetime you were doing all the
things that you thought youshould be doing yeah.
So how long did it take?
What do you know, like whatsteps you took before you were
ready to actually surrender thatand really make change?
Speaker 3 (32:04):
Like within this time of from when I told nobody to
um I think it was about eightmonths or so of like the back
and forth of okay, I slipped up,okay this, okay this.
And there was a moment where Ifelt like God had delivered me,
like I had given it to him andhe had taken it, and from that
(32:28):
point forward, there was no,there was no going back there
was no, there was no going back.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
So the slip-ups, because I think that's a very
important part of coming out ofa lifestyle that has been what
we've known for some time.
You know, it's not just clear,concise cookie cutter.
Okay, boom, boom, god,everything's gone.
Although sometimes God does doit that way in people.
They just never look back andthey just move forward and
(32:59):
that's it.
And I don't know if it's harderfor those of us who grew up in
church.
I wonder.
I haven't done any researcharound that or tested that
theory, but I wonder for thoseof us that grew up in church if
our process is longer because Ofall the things we know, yes,
kind of.
Yeah, knowledge can sometimes bea hindrance to us.
(33:21):
But I forgot what I was saying.
Eight months it took you towork through that.
Oh, I was saying I think thatwe have to have grace sometimes
for the slip ups too.
Do you remember feeling like aton of condemnation during that,
now that the cat was out of thebag and you were really trying
(33:45):
to release it to God, and thenyou would fall back and slip or
use, or you know, look at pornagain.
Did you feel condemnation ordid you feel conviction?
Speaker 3 (34:00):
I felt conviction at that point and having someone in
my life that went through whatI went through was it was a
godsend because she was able torelate to me and help me and
lead me back.
You know, she gave me the bankand then I needed it and moved
(34:22):
forward.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
You know what I mean, but not in a way that I felt
Accountability and correction.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
So having that was it was incredible.
Yeah, you know um because when Idid, um, have slip ups when I
fell, I and having that was itwas incredible, yeah, you know,
because when I did have slip upswhen I fell, I, you know I beat
myself up, I was mad at myself,I, you know I got to this point
and then I'm still.
I'm still failing, you knowmyself, but she always directed
(34:51):
me back to the word of God andto be in the word and I realized
that through that, that was theonly thing that kept me going
on the right path was havingthat.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Yeah Well, I think you said something too that's
really good.
You said you were lettingyourself down, and I think
that's a difference.
When we try to do this forsomeone else versus our will is
actually involved to want tomake the change, you know, from
our heart's place, to really toreally serve the Lord, to really
(35:26):
want to please him.
You know, and it's coming fromour free will.
It's so much.
It's so different than tryingto do it for someone else.
I think that's where thedifference between having a
relationship with God is versusbeing a religious person,
(35:47):
because when it's a relationship, we're really doing it for all
the right reasons, and I guessreligion can be that too right.
People want to be Christiansfor all the right reasons, but
until you get it for yourself,it's just so much easier to fall
.
So where does that leave younow?
(36:14):
Have you talked about this verymuch in the open space?
Speaker 3 (36:19):
Not I have mentioned it a few times um, probably to a
Bible study group.
You know, you kind of justblurt it out and move on with
the rest of what you're saying.
Um, but I don't think I've ever.
You know, you kind of justblurt it out and move on with
the rest of what you're saying,but I don't think I've ever.
You know, really I haven't satdown with anyone.
That's gone through, you know,and has the struggle, but every
(36:43):
time that I do say it I feel alittle bit freer still, even to
this day as long as it's been.
I still feel like a weight islifted.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
Yeah, so why do you think we don't talk about
pornography in the church?
We definitely don't talk aboutit among women, but do you think
we talk about it very muchamong men either?
Speaker 3 (37:06):
No, I don't.
I mean.
The struggle is probably evengreater for a man which is.
You know, it's prevalent, it'sknown, so man which is you know,
it's prevalent, it's known, soI even so, I feel like that
should be something that'stalked about, especially in this
day, like I mean you could,anyone that watches TV or
YouTube or whatever half nakedgirl pops up on a commercial you
(37:30):
know, and then by text messagesto senior citizens' telephones.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
It's infuriating, it's just there, it's crazy.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
The fact that we don't talk about it is, I feel
like it's a disservice to men towomen, especially to women,
because they do struggle.
The same thing that a guy sees,a woman sees, and you know, we
don't know if that they'reinclined to to fall or to have
those sexual desires in that wayum, but it definitely needs to
(38:06):
be talked about more, yeah yeahI think I don't know why we
don't talk about it more either,other than pornography in
general is a sensitive subjectbecause it conjures up images,
right?
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Anybody who's had carnal knowledge automatically
knows what pornography means,and if they've already got
carnal knowledge, you canpicture something in an instant
in your mind, and so you don'treally want that going out to
the whole church.
You know I could see, but Iwanted to share some statistics
(38:45):
that I think you might findinteresting.
I don't know if you have everlooked them up have ever looked
them up but 41% of women admitto viewing pornography online.
This was a study done in 2020,I believe 41% of women say that
(39:10):
they view pornography online,compared to 67% men.
That's not a big variation.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
No, that's so close.
Almost exactly the same.
That's a lot.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
There's another study that was done, so there's a few
studies out there.
Another study said that 60.2%of women view pornography,
compared to 91.5% of men.
I'm inclined that a lot.
It's so common among menbecause so many men grow up with
(39:44):
it and it's been sociallyaccepted as normative, certainly
not in the church world, but inevery other part of society.
It's just considered a guy'sconversation Right, but this is
what I think is your heartbeatand where I think that the
(40:06):
church could maybe grow intodealing with.
To dealing with For 14 to 18year olds.
(40:27):
57% of teen girls reportviewing pornography.
So that is 57% of our 14 yearolds to 18 year olds, high
school age and women 18 to 30years old.
In the United States that wasall United States as well 76% of
women report watching pornbetween the ages of 18 to 30.
So very young demographic.
Speaker 3 (40:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Which is alarming, I know.
In my practice I've had juniorhigh kiddos and high school
kiddos.
The thing now is Snapchat andsnapping naked pictures or video
.
I mean crazy stuff.
(41:18):
Kids grade because they'rechildren and they themselves
have sent a picture which ischild pornography, and anyone
that distributes that which kidsshare with friends.
They're now distributing childpornography.
It's very serious, but kiddosdon't recognize that, and so I
(41:42):
think there is a hugeopportunity for our Sunday
school and youth to kind ofeducate in that area and for you
to really kind of educate inthat area and for you to really
talk about it and share yourstory or I don't know, I don't
know what that would look likefor you, brianna, but I know you
(42:09):
have a heart to really helppeople that might struggle with
it, and I think what used to bethe norm in my generation has
changed quite a bit for yourgeneration and then the
generation after you.
Speaker 3 (42:20):
Yeah, it's definitely getting worse and worse and
those numbers are getting higherand higher.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
Right.
Speaker 3 (42:27):
They're not going down Right.
The access that we have now isinsane.
Right the access that we havenow is it's insane.
I can't imagine being stuck nowhow I was, you know, 10, eight
years ago, but I definitely wantto bring light to this because
(42:49):
it's obviously there.
You know the numbers are thereand it's not going away.
It would be one thing if it wasgoing down and it was going away
.
But it's not, unfortunately,and women get stuck.
We feel alone anyways most ofthe time and you feel insecure
(43:12):
and all these feelings as awoman.
And to add this and to have toadmit it to somebody is it's
hard.
You know I thank God that I hadthat little escape of you know
it already being said.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
All I had to do was, you know, bring my part to it
and meet up with somebody, rightmy part to it and meet up with
somebody Right and I think youknow the spiritual ramifications
of this is, I think,significant, because I always
like to clarify sin.
I'm pretty sensitive to thatword, I don't really like that
(43:48):
word, even though the Bible isripe with that word, but I like
to really clarify that sin isseparation from God, because I
think in religious cultureoverall it's been kind of a
dirty word and used to createcondemnation and I don't think
(44:08):
that's probably across the board.
Like I said, I'm just fairlysensitive to it across the board
.
Like I said, I'm just fairlysensitive to it.
But secrecy is one of theenemy's biggest tools that he
uses against people in generalbut definitely against children
of God, is to create anenvironment where secrecy exists
(44:30):
.
And so you know, I want to talka little bit about the
addiction piece and where thespiritual aspects come into play
, because I think that it's easyto dismiss porn as just oh,
it's no big deal, but theobsession.
(44:53):
So in Patrick Karn's book hetalks about the cycle of
addiction and sexual abuse beingpreoccupation, which in a
cognitive behavioral frameworkwe would call that obsession
right.
So thoughts, emotions and thenour behavior.
(45:14):
So the obsession of this iswhat I need.
This is what I need.
This is what I'm going to do.
As soon as I get free, as soonas I can get away from somebody,
I'm going to going to, going to, going to right and then the
ritualization how that comesinto play.
(45:35):
Right, everybody has their ownritual.
The way they do somethingchanges.
So some people could be theirphone in their car, away from
someone.
Others it could be in theshower with their phone.
Others, it could be like youknow, under their blanket with
their phone, but everyone has away of which they do stuff their
(45:56):
phone.
Others, it could be like youknow, under their blanket with
their phone, or, but everyonehas a way of which they do stuff
.
If someone's going to get drunk,they've got the way they're
going to go get drunk.
If someone's going to use, theyknow exactly what environment
to create so they can escape, togo, find a way to get high.
And so the ritualization piece,compulsion, compulsive behavior
.
And so the ritualization piece,compulsion, compulsive behavior
(46:17):
, that's actually the act ofwhat you're going to do.
However, you're going to fillthat need, fill that void,
create the outcome you desire,and then the despair,
perpetuated through shame.
And that's being yourself up,feeling bad about yourself.
And if you're a Christian,that's where the enemy is really
(46:38):
going to come in and furthercondemn somebody and really
really make you feel even lessthan and when we act in ways
that separate us from God.
It makes it so much harder forus to forgive ourselves, even
though God is standing therewaiting to forgive us because we
(47:00):
know our behavior.
It makes it really hard forpeople to forgive themselves and
accept the forgiveness that God.
But I had heard a story ofsomebody who had a perpetual
masturbation.
(47:22):
I don't know if it was anaddiction or if it was just a
way that they released theiremotion or whatever, but they
had reported having a dream thatthey saw themselves with a
snake wrapped around their bodyand just the tail was hanging
(47:43):
out and under their bed thesnake had hatched several eggs
and little tiny snakes wascrawling around underneath the
bed and that person reporteddirectly linking it to their
struggle with that.
And up until that time theydidn't really know if
(48:08):
masturbation was a sin or not.
They didn't really know if itwas okay.
If it wasn't okay, it was likea gray area.
They weren't really sure itwasn't masturbated to
pornography and so there wassome confusion there and until
they had sort of reported that,I thought, wow, I wonder what
(48:33):
the spiritual ramifications are,how the enemy, I think.
I think the explanation of thesnake being wrapped around the
body is so very telling, becausewe are flesh, you know soul and
spirit, and if the devil hasour flesh, soul and spirit, and
(48:59):
if the devil has our flesh.
It makes it really reallydifficult to overcome in our
spirit and in our soul.
So I know that's a lot to sayright there, but what are your
thoughts?
What do you think youexperienced in the flesh piece
and in the spiritual piece?
Did you ever connect those twobeyond just oh, this is wrong.
(49:19):
I'm not.
I don't know if my question iseven clear, but I mean, aside
from just the sin aspect, didyou ever see it in any other
kind of spiritual significance?
Speaker 3 (49:35):
not that that's not important, it's totally
important I think I always seenit as the sin aspect and
definitely separating me fromgod um and putting that space
there, because I know that whenI was coming out of it and when
(50:01):
my friend was helping me, it wasstaying in the word that kept
me grounded, and God is the wordthat's him Right right.
And it was.
If I wasn't in the word, if Iwasn't studying, if I wasn't at
a Bible study, if I wasn't doingsomething and I didn't have my
(50:23):
thoughts, you know, captive, Ididn't have my conversations
pure that's so good If I didn'thave, you know, just joking
around with friends.
That kept me a little fleshlyor a little.
Speaker 1 (50:34):
It wasn't even a bad conversation, so good.
Speaker 2 (50:35):
You know, it's just a little seed, right, right.
Speaker 3 (50:40):
You know there were things I had to take out.
Speaker 1 (50:43):
And I didn't even realize.
You know, I didn't realize itwas you know country music that
was keeping me there.
Speaker 3 (50:48):
Or these friends that I had to just stay away from
for a little bit.
But if I allowed those thingsto keep going and I didn't stay
in the word, then I failed, Iwould give in, but staying
connected to God that way waswhat kept me definitely grounded
and connected back to God and Irealized that I've said, I've
(51:14):
said this several times, um, todifferent people, but you know,
I feel like when God created us,you know there was this space
that was meant just for him andus and we fill it with all these
different things and I feellike that's what I did.
I filled it with this sin and,yes, I had other sin in my life.
There were other things that Ifelt and that I, you know,
(51:35):
probably picked up again and butthere was nothing like this and
I think it was the selfcondemnation that kept I kept
feeling it even with that.
You know the thoughts of likeyou can't be forgiven, no one's
gonna, no one's gonna thinkyou're you're, you know you're
fully out of this sin, butreminding myself that God loved
(52:00):
me, that he died for me, thathis word was true and it kept me
, definitely kept me.
Speaker 2 (52:07):
That's so good because you were focused on him
and where you were going andwhat was true.
And you're so right how all thethings that seem insignificant
really can be triggers to get usright back into that emotion
that caused us.
Speaker 3 (52:27):
Oh, it was yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:28):
I heard a song the other day.
I was in a.
Where was I?
I was in a.
Where was I?
I was in a restaurant.
I was in some place outside ofmy control and this song came on
the radio and, man, it justsent me to a whole different
place and I was like I was soaware of just how much, how
(52:58):
narrow my life has become inhaving to keep all of those
things out.
Nothing wrong with the song,but it was where it took me and
my thoughts and my emotions andhow it made me feel Things can
just pull us right back soeasily.
You know that there's a reasonthat when we come anonymous
narcotics anonymous, you knowalcoholics, anonymous, whatever
(53:41):
it is they tell them go to 90meetings in 90 days, cause you
have to just stay laser focusedon where you're headed and what
your goal is and and reallycreate some separation from the
old life that you used to have.
I believe that, yeah, and that'swhat we do when we turn our
life over to the Lord right.
The Bible says letting go ofthose things which are behind
and reaching towards that whichis in front, pressing towards
(54:04):
the mark of the high prize, andI think that that's you know.
But it's so nice to see itbroken down in practical terms,
like you said, just having tostay grounded in the word.
Speaker 3 (54:17):
And I feel like that's hard for someone that
doesn't have somebody.
I had my friend who went?
Through who recovered frompornography, and if I didn't
have her to keep reminding me,if I didn't have the 90 days of
meetings with her writings withher.
I.
I don't know what that wouldlook like now you know, yeah,
(54:40):
but it is important to you know,have someone that's Christ
minded to keep you and go alongwith you and remind you.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (54:51):
Because you know Jesus told Peter in the in the
garden when he asked him to pray.
You know the spirit is willingbut the flesh is weak you know,
and I think maybe, now that I'mjust thinking about that, I I
wonder if that snake wrappedaround that body was the flesh
(55:13):
being you know.
So, taken Like the flesh isweak, it will suck you back in
in a second.
You know, and I don't know Ineed to think further about that
, but yeah, anyways, I do.
What would you say to somebody,then, who finds themselves
(55:35):
addicted to pornography or evensex or anything that is
comforting them instead of God?
Speaker 3 (55:49):
I would definitely say to find that one person that
you can tell.
The first thing is tellingsomebody, the more it's kept a
secret, the more it's hidden,the more it's not out there.
I feel like the devil likes tokeep people like that, like
bound by themselves, can't tellanybody yeah isolated and find
(56:13):
that person you could tell, andthe more you say it, the more
free you'll feel for sure.
But for me it was tellingsomebody and then we kind of got
my phone on lockdown and thenwe got in the Word and in Bible
studies and stayed connected.
Speaker 2 (56:37):
How did you get your phone on lockdown?
Did you use Covenant Eyes?
Speaker 3 (56:44):
I didn't, but they took my phone and deleted all
the apps and put parent locks onit.
Speaker 1 (56:51):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (56:53):
Did it that way.
Speaker 2 (56:55):
And that was your choice.
That was something you werewilling to do because you really
wanted to get free from thisright.
Yeah, I'm so glad you said tellsomebody because, like I said,
the enemy works best in secret.
And so children that are abused, children that are sexually
abused that is what keeps themstruggling also is they never
(57:17):
tell anyone until finallythey're in their adulthood or
their life has becomeunmanageable, and then they
finally connect the dots and saysomething but tell, tell, tell.
Yeah, it's so important to tellsomebody.
(57:38):
It is.
It is yeah, and you journaled alot.
Speaker 3 (57:40):
I did the whole time yeah.
I wanted to have a, I wanted toremember, I wanted to help
somebody, I wanted to be able tohand someone my journal and say
you know, you can do this too.
Speaker 2 (57:53):
Yeah.
So what would you tell somebodyabout journaling, like, how did
that help you, what?
How did you even know to pickup a journal and write when you
were young, like that?
Speaker 3 (58:04):
I always liked journaling, taking notes.
I felt like that was just a wayto express myself.
I'm an introvert, so for me itwas easiest just to write my
feelings down and get them outthat way.
So for this, like I said, Iwanted to have something to
remember.
I wanted to go back and be ableto tell someone that they could
(58:27):
do it too.
I wanted to write a book,honestly that's why I kept it.
I wanted to remember thosethings, yeah.
Speaker 2 (58:33):
Well, you're going to write a book.
You got to write a book becauseI think you know that was quite
a while ago and the Lord, Ithink, put that in your heart.
For you to write a book becausethat was you know, that was
your initial thought, you know.
I think, that's how God works,anyways.
Speaker 3 (58:53):
Someone journaling, I would say definitely do it,
even if that's your first way ofsaying I'm addicted to
pornography.
Write it down, get it out theresome way and from there kind of
keep going.
I think we don't really expressourselves when you're stuck in
that.
There's no way to expressyourself.
So you can at least get it downand gather your thoughts.
(59:14):
It might be a little easier totell somebody or say hey, read
my, read my notebook.
Here it is.
However, you got to get it out.
Speaker 2 (59:23):
Yeah, I mean, and sometimes that is the easiest
because they can't say it inperson, it's, it's so shaming or
it's too difficult, but you canhand someone your book and say
yeah.
I want to share this with you.
Speaker 3 (59:35):
Sometimes that is way easier for people to do.
Speaker 2 (59:38):
And, yeah, that's what you have to do Do it, yeah,
and you know, make sure youpick carefully who you share
with.
Yes, if you have a youth, youknow a youth leader or Sunday
school teacher, you know.
Pick somebody that that youthat is older, you know you
never know if you can trustsomeone until you risk trusting
(01:00:00):
them.
Um.
But sharing with your peers umcan be tricky because usually
we're learning how to trust, youknow, when we're young, trying
to grow up, so that's not alwaysthe best and to like if I
thought about any friends that Iwould have told at that point
there's none in my circle thatwould have been able to help me.
Speaker 3 (01:00:21):
You know, they would have just been like, oh, I'm
sorry, or you know it wouldn'thave been a a direct push in the
right direction of getting morehelp you know, because
sometimes you know, maybe theperson you tell doesn't know how
to help you, but they candirect you to a counselor or to
somebody that that can.
Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
Yeah, so let's see what else I wanted to clarify.
Fifty four percent ofpracticing Christians report
consuming porn and 40%practicing Christian women
report consuming porn.
So that's you know thosenumbers in the national survey
(01:01:05):
and among Christians are reallythe same.
Speaker 3 (01:01:09):
That's half the women in our church.
You know if you kind of thinkof it that way it's crazy.
Speaker 2 (01:01:17):
Yeah, it's much more prevalent, I think, than I mean.
I didn't really even know itsprevalency until I started
looking at the data, knowing wewere going to be doing this,
especially among Christians.
I know it's out there, I knowit's available.
It's not everyone's vice, but Ithink in the Christian context
(01:01:39):
I don't know if this is true I'mspeculating.
I wonder if we tend to reachfor things that seem more
socially acceptable than thingsthat aren't Like.
For example, because alcohol islegal, a vast majority of
people would choose to drinkover illicit drugs because they
(01:02:02):
could rationalize in their mindthat it's legal.
Speaker 3 (01:02:04):
It's socially acceptable too.
Speaker 2 (01:02:06):
Right, I've heard that so many times.
And then when marijuana becamelegal, then that didn't seem so
bad either.
And alcohol use is actuallydecreased among youth, because
marijuana use has increased andamong women it's off the charts.
Girls, teenagers, are smokingway way more, maybe even more,
(01:02:29):
than boys, but marijuana useamong girls is so increased.
Instead of alcohol, alcohol isreally taking a back seat.
Yeah, it's so interesting, butyeah, I think that I don't know
how to have this conversationother than the podcast.
(01:02:49):
In a youth environment, in achurch environment?
Do you have any suggestions?
We were kind of talking about aquestion there.
How would you see this rollingout If you could say we really
need to get this in the churches?
What resources do you thinkwould be useful or that would
(01:03:12):
need to be created?
What would have helped?
Speaker 3 (01:03:26):
you Probably, if somebody just I mean, I don't
know, I tried.
After all of this, I did a bookwith our youth girls.
That book, every Young Woman'sBattle.
Speaker 2 (01:03:44):
It wasn't exactly this.
Speaker 3 (01:03:48):
It kind of covers a variety of topics, but that was
my way of trying to get it outthere.
I don't feel like it fully didthe right thing.
I don't feel like it hit theright mark, yeah.
But I don't even know untilhearing that someone else.
I guess just this yeah, hearingthat someone else went through
(01:04:10):
it, hearing that there wassomeone else that could help me,
it made all the difference.
If I had maybe a book orsomething that I could purchase
and read and kind of get thebravery to be able to tell
somebody else that I struggledmay have helped.
I guess that's what I lookedfor mostly.
I looked for books of someonethat was struggling.
(01:04:33):
I looked for podcasts.
I looked for books of someonethat was struggling.
I looked for podcasts, I lookedfor websites, and there wasn't
much for women out there, if anyTen years ago, right?
Speaker 2 (01:04:42):
Yeah, I think it might be being talked about a
little bit more than it was then, but I still don't think among
Christians it's probably talkedabout very much.
Speaker 3 (01:04:54):
Well, I can't even imagine as like a married woman
having to.
I mean, you have to admit thatto your husband and you have to.
You know, it's a wholedifferent ball game there.
How was?
Speaker 2 (01:05:07):
your husband.
When you admitted did he, didhe think it was a big deal Cause
cause guys, so many guys useporn.
Do you feel like he understoodhow big of a deal it was for you
or do you feel like he thought,oh, he understood how big of a
deal it was.
Speaker 3 (01:05:24):
yeah, we kind of had that talk when we were dating,
when things started gettingserious and you know he
understood.
Speaker 2 (01:05:35):
Yeah, a lot of questions to ask there, but.
I won't because it's prettyintimate.
But yeah, well, I'm excited,bree, in the fact that you have
a passion for this and you wantto really see you know some
resources created and figure outwhat this might look like for
(01:05:56):
you and your ministry.
You and Michael have your owncompany, grayson Harmony Company
, where you guys make shirts andhats and all kinds of swag for
churches and and and logos forcompanies and such.
So I'm excited to see where yougo with this, what this could
(01:06:21):
become in terms of a ministrytool for you, because I don't
think we go through things forno reason.
I think God uses everything inour life to help someone else,
right?
Speaker 3 (01:06:33):
Yeah, I'm excited.
Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
Look for it.
Speaker 3 (01:06:34):
God uses everything in our life to help someone else
, right?
Yeah, I'm excited, look for it.
Hopefully it'll be here soon.
Yeah, but I just want people toknow there's hope.
Speaker 2 (01:06:44):
Yeah, and that God really can set the captive free.
Speaker 3 (01:06:49):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (01:06:49):
Yeah, any last thoughts before we finish?
Speaker 3 (01:06:54):
I don't think so.
Speaker 2 (01:06:56):
Well, thank you very much for being vulnerable and
sharing your story.
And if there's anyone out therewho struggles, any females,
particularly if you strugglewith pornography or suspect your
children I mean, if you're aparent, check your kid's phone,
(01:07:16):
Do not, please do not take forgranted that your children are
sweet and innocent, becausesweet and innocent kids get sent
stuff and their friends talk tothem about stuff.
Even if they don't want to know,even if they're not asking they
, they do become exposed.
So have the conversation withyour children at least, and
(01:07:39):
reach out to us.
We'll definitely send youresources, we'll send you.
You know I can send you what Ihave and connect you with
Brianna.
If somebody out there needs amentor or anything, so you can
find us on our websitetheredeemedbacksliderorg and we
will connect you.
So thank you so much for beinghere.
Speaker 3 (01:08:00):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:08:01):
Yeah, Thanks everybody.
Hope to see you again soon.
Speaker 1 (01:08:04):
Bye.
We are so glad you joined us.
If you have a story ofredemption or have worn the
label of a backslider, we wouldlove to hear from you.
If you'd like to support ourministry, your donation will be
tax deductible.
Visit our website attheredeemedbacksliderorg.
(01:08:25):
We hope you will tune in forour next episode.
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