From Possessed to Preacher: Rev. Ethan Logsdon

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Welcome to the Redeemed Backslider with your
host, Kathy Chastain,Christian-based psychotherapist
and Redeemed Backslider.
This podcast is dedicated tothose who have wandered but are
ready to return to thelife-changing power of grace and
the freedom found in Jesus.

SPEAKER_04 (00:22):
Hi, welcome to the Redeemed Backslider.
I'm your host, Kathy Chastain.
I'm a licensed Christian-basedmarriage and family therapist,
and I'm also a redeemedbackslider.
With me today via Zoom isReverend Ethan Logsdon.
I recently heard Brother Logsdonon another podcast that he

(00:45):
shared his testimony.
My pastor's wife actually sentit to me, and I immediately
reached out to him, and here heis today.
I'm so excited.
for him to share his testimonywith all of you.
So welcome.
Thank you so much for sayingyes.

SPEAKER_01 (01:04):
Absolutely.
I'm so honored.
And any opportunity I have toglorify God through what he's
done in my life, I love theopportunity.
So thank you for having me.
And I'm an open book, at least Itry to be.

SPEAKER_04 (01:21):
Well, I think that's so important for Thank you for
that.
Absolutely.

(01:51):
So I'm going to have you startwith kind of just telling the
audience.
I know you probably shared yourtestimony with others, but I
don't know if my audience willbe the same.
This is a newer podcast.
We're just sort of gettingstarted.
And so we may not have anycrossover.

(02:11):
So you want to just.
And then I have a list ofquestions, and I may interrupt
and ask some questions along theway, but I'll just give you the
floor.

SPEAKER_01 (02:21):
Absolutely.
It's hard to know where tobegin.
My family didn't really have abackground in church.
much less any form ofPentecostalism or the new word

(02:43):
evangelicalism.
We didn't have any background inanything.
I come from a broken home.
My father left us when I wasprobably three years old.
I know you said you'd talk withmy mother as well.
She'll have a better timeline ofwhen things exactly occurred.

(03:09):
But I was born in Searcy,Arkansas.
We lived there until my motherand my father got divorced.
And then we moved here,actually, where I am today, to
Orange, Texas, where I wasraised for my entire life.
And things rocked along.

(03:30):
She'll share more of her story,I'm sure.
Single mother, raising threekids, trying to finish college,
trying to work hard.
one or two jobs.
And so, you know, it wasn't, itwasn't the easiest, but I had my
brothers, I had companionshipthrough them.
And I would say I was, I wasmaybe six or seven years old

(03:59):
when she met a man at a baralong, it's called the Long Corn
here in, here in the South.
And it's a, it's a popular,popular bar and she met this guy
and they hit it off well andshe's going through a family
album of his and she sees thewomen in his family you know the

(04:20):
tied up hair and the bobby pinseverywhere and the long skirts
and she closed the book she saiddon't tell me you're a
Pentecostal and he said no noI'm not my family is and she
said you know good because I'llnever be a Pentecostal And he
said, you know, you don't haveto worry about that, yada, yada,

(04:41):
yada.
And I went into it a little bit,but to spare the time, my mother
came down with some rare form ofseizures.
They took her to Beaumontbecause they started off slow,

(05:06):
but then they– They grew intolike she would be in like an
uncontainable state.
And so they took her toBeaumont, life flighted her to
Houston, then brought in doctorsfrom Baylor, and they examined
her.
They have about, I think, mymother can correct me if I'm

(05:30):
wrong, It's either two or fourhours of footage of her going
into these seizures and peoplepraying.
That's all they knew to do.
We had no background inreligion, but all they knew to
do was pray, and they wouldstop.
And they went into a boardroomand discussed this.

(05:53):
They talked about it, and theycame back, and they came back
with this diagnosis.
They said, keep in mind, mymother's...
probably in her mid to late 20sat this time.
And they said, she's going tohave to be in a nursing home for
the rest of her life.
And all of this praying stuffy'all are doing, y'all are going
to have to stop that because sheis- The doctor said that.

(06:16):
The doctor said that.
I don't know where they got itfrom, but they said she is
subconsciously relying on yourprayers.
And somehow, I guess- Theybelieved her body was triggering
some sort of momentary responsethat would cause her to snap out

(06:37):
of the seizures.
But they said that the more wecontinued to pray, the more
frequent the seizures wouldbecome, the more reliant she
would become on prayer.
So they said it would just bebest if you stopped praying and
let her go to a nursing home.

SPEAKER_05 (06:51):
Wow.

SPEAKER_01 (06:53):
And my father, or my stepfather, who was a Baxlan
Pentecostal at the time, I'mpretty sure he still had his
earrings in.
He felt the unction of the HolyGhost and he stood up in front
and you have to meet him.
He's not, he's a very quiet,very, it's out of his character.

(07:13):
You know, when the spirit of theLord moves on you, it's not you
anymore.
And he stands up in front of aroom full of doctors and says,
no, she's not.
And they look at him like, whatdo you mean?
No, she's not.
He said, she will not be in anursing home for the rest of her
life.
They walked over, laid hands onher and said, I rebuke the

(07:34):
spirit of infirmity in the nameof Jesus.
And immediately, God raised herup out of that bed and she has
never had another seizure.
That night, they found a churchhaving revival services.
She prayed through to the HolyGhost.
And that was our introductioninto the faith.

(07:56):
So that's the...
That's the first half of how wegot into church.
That's such a

SPEAKER_04 (08:05):
powerful introduction.
It

SPEAKER_01 (08:08):
is.
Have

SPEAKER_04 (08:09):
you ever asked your mom why she had such a response
to the photo in the photo album?
How she even knew what aPentecostal looked like?
And why she said, I will neverbe that?
Did you ever ask her that?

SPEAKER_01 (08:26):
So...
I can assume, you know, we haveone, we had maybe two family
members who were apostolic.
It was her grandma, and I thinkshe'll be able to tell the

(08:46):
story.
She remembers when she was alittle kid going to services
with her, you know, every nowand then.
But she was never, you know,she'd never received the Holy
Ghost or anything like that.
She never got involved.
But I guess that is aninteresting question.
You'll have to ask her, youknow, why she had such a
response to the photos.

(09:08):
Because that, you know, I justremember that detail as she said
she was going through and shesaw it.
She said, I'll never be aPentecostal.

SPEAKER_04 (09:19):
Wow.

SPEAKER_01 (09:19):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (09:20):
Wow.
What deliverance.
So you said you were about sixor seven at that time when that
happened with your mom.

SPEAKER_01 (09:29):
I'm sorry?

SPEAKER_04 (09:35):
I was going to say, how long were those seizure
episodes?
As a little boy, you had to havebeen terrified.

SPEAKER_01 (09:43):
Yeah, I distinctly remember one.
We were driving home.
My mother grew up in a placecalled Singer, Louisiana.
That's where a lot of her familyis from.
And we were visiting her mom inDe Quincey.
And, well, technically, I don'tknow if you can call it a
suburb.

(10:03):
It was a little town about 10minutes outside of De Quincey.
Because I remember we weredriving back through De Quincey.
And I could see I was sitting...
I was sitting in the back seat.
My older brother was in thefront seat.
My little brother was also inthe back seat with me.

(10:23):
And I could see her shouldersstart to shake.
And my older brother, I mean,he's not much older than me.
He's probably 10 at the time.
And she's driving down the road,and she starts having these
seizures.
And I guess at that age, youdon't really know what's going

(10:46):
on.
You know, you know, why is mom,you know, why is mom moving like
that?
Why is she, why is she, whycan't she talk?
You know, and my, my, my olderbrother who's 10 years old had
to take the wheel and hopefully,you know, I mean, God's hand was
on us that she didn't, you know,stomp the gas pedal or anything

(11:06):
and wreck the car.
And, you know, she, but she, Iremember somehow the, you know,
the car slowing down and,pulling into the parking lot.
We didn't know what to do.
We didn't know how to use a cellphone.
And so we just kind of had tosit there and wait it out.
Now, if I remember correctly,that probably lasted maybe 20

(11:30):
minutes.
And so some would last, theywouldn't be as bad as that one,
but they gradually got really,really bad to where they'd last,
I mean, a long, long time whereshe'd fall on the ground and be
seizing up.
I mean, she would be essentiallyunconscious.

SPEAKER_04 (11:55):
Wow.
And so they found a church rightafter that.

SPEAKER_01 (12:00):
They did.
They found a church that washaving revival.
It was either a Tuesday or aThursday night.
And she walked right in and Godfilled her with the Holy Ghost.
And I mean, she was ready to.
And after you have an encounterlike that, I think you're ready.
Yes.
Doesn't matter.

(12:20):
And

SPEAKER_04 (12:20):
nothing else matters after that.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (12:24):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (12:25):
So you guys started going to church.
How old were you about thattime, do you think?

SPEAKER_01 (12:29):
We did.
I'd say she would have a bettertimeline.
I'd say 10 years old is a safenumber.
10 years old.
Now, we...
You know, I've been asked thequestion before, you know,

(12:52):
why...
And my older brother, he ran faras well.
He's back now and doing reallygood.
But I've been asked, you know,why did I run as far as I did?
Why did I do the things I did?
I think...
And maybe I'm wrong here.
I...

(13:12):
To this day, I'm the only onewho still talks to our father.
I had something in me that justwas drawn to him.
I mean, he's my father.
And I think him not being therealready started working on me.

(13:33):
I have a mentor in my life whosehindsight is always 20-20.
And the ton I didn't understandbefore.
I guess, psychologically what itwas doing to me.
But I mean, I can look back now,like even at the young age of
10, even though I was going tochurch, I was struggling.
There was some emotional, and Iknow this is a buzzword in our

(13:56):
culture and I don't use it as abuzzword, but I truly did have
emotional trauma from thingslike, you know, my mother having
seizures and my father leaving,you know, just small things like
that that build up

SPEAKER_05 (14:10):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (14:11):
Over time.
And I think that's why, eventhough we did get into the
faith, we had a strongintroduction.
And at a very impressionable ageof 10, I think something else
had already begun to leave itsmark on me.
And when the two clashed, I was,for whatever reason, prone to

(14:34):
rebellion rather than surrender,if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 (14:39):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, it makes total sense,especially in the context of
where your life took you.
I've sometimes thought...
So there's big T trauma, whichis physical abuse, sexual abuse,
neglect, and there's a fourthI'm just blanking out right now.

(15:03):
And then there's little Ttrauma, where you may not have
gone through...
physical abuse or sexual abuseor anything like that, but your
needs weren't met or a divorceoccurs.
And divorce, you know, I never,you know, I have a son who his

(15:23):
father and I got divorced, andin my later years that I've
really begun to see andunderstand and working with
children of divorce, what animpact that that makes.
But As an adult, we don't alwaysrealize that because our
rationality is that the kids areso small, they're not going to

(15:43):
know, they're not going toremember.
But they do because there is avoid, there is an absence.
You are half of the otherparent.
And when that parent is absent,part of you is needing to
connect with that, is missingessentially.
So yes, you did very much suffera trauma.

SPEAKER_03 (16:05):
So

SPEAKER_04 (16:06):
I've thought many times that rebellion, and this
isn't an excuse, I always try todraw the spiritual parallels to
what's taking place, the way theenemy works against us.
And I've often thought thatrebellion is a hunger for and

(16:31):
sometimes the black sheep of thefamily is also the truth teller
in the family.
I don't know if that was thecase for you or if it was just
you flat out wanted somethingdifferent.

SPEAKER_01 (16:45):
I'll be honest.
I was a terrible kid.
Okay.
I was just bad.
But I will say, At the core ofwho I am, I was chasing after

(17:07):
real.
That is why, you know, and Iknow we'll get into it later,
but that is why I did what Idid.
And that's why I neverentertained anything other than
than what I believe to be real,even now that I'm serving the

(17:28):
Lord filled with the Holy Ghost.
I won't do anything other thanwhat is real.
Because to me, there's no reasonto seek out an alternative.
And so I think I took a lot oftime seeking and searching and

(17:49):
hurting, but trying to findsomething real.
And there's a good evangelistwho calls it the God-sized hole.
And I think that's what I wastrying to fill.
And I was looking for somethingreal that would fill that
God-sized hole.
But it's God-sized.
You know, only God can fill it.

SPEAKER_04 (18:11):
Yes, I agree.
Yes.
Okay, so sorry to interrupt.
Continue.

SPEAKER_01 (18:16):
No, no, no, absolutely.
So that was our introductiontoday.
into church.
And believe it or not, when Iget to this part, I've had a lot
of people who have had similartestimonies to mine that have

(18:37):
come out of the same things thatI have.
And interestingly enough, theirentry point, their doorway,
their whatever you want to callit, it was from somebody in the
church.
Mine was actually from somebodyin the church.

(18:57):
And so there was somebody in thechurch, you know, I was young
and dumb, and I thought, youknow, I wanted to do music.
And he said, man, you know, ifyou want to do music, there's
really, you know, there's a wayyou've got to do this.
And I can look back and I cansee now the enemy already at

(19:19):
work, you know, through hisvoice.
And he started to tell me about,you know, things the
conversation did, you know,obviously take a huge turn.
And he's like, you know, if youwant to make it, you know, in
the world, you've got to havehelp.

(19:41):
He said, I'm not just talkingabout people, but, you know, I'm
talking about In terms of thespirit.
And.
He laid it all out on the table.
And.
They said.
You know.
If you.
If you want.
If you want to.
If you want to do this thing forreal.
This is what you've got to do.
And.
I.

(20:02):
I thought about it.
You know.
I'm young.
I.
I'm young and dumb.
And.
It's just.
It's looking for something.
And.
I.
Decided that.
text him back.
I said, you know what?
I'll do it.
And I know I'm being vague andyour listeners at this point are
probably going to be like, whatis he talking about?

(20:25):
And I'm trying to lay thefoundations in a way that people
understand, you know, because alot of times I tell a lot of
people want to know why.
And that's what I'm trying to...
I'm trying to answer thequestion, I guess, before we get

(20:47):
there.
And...

SPEAKER_04 (20:50):
Was this guy in the church or was he...
How are you acquainted with him?
And what kind of music was itthat you were...
So at this point, your rebellionwas already in place.
And you were looking to makemusic of a certain genre, I'm
guessing.

SPEAKER_01 (21:10):
Yeah.
Actually...
So this guy, he rapped.
That's what he did.
Now, I'll be honest.
I didn't possess any musicalability.
I didn't know.
At that point, I really had noidea.
He kind of pushed me in thatdirection, which is why if you

(21:35):
talk to people I knew when theyknew me when I was younger, I
mean, I didn't.
What you see today is not what Iused to be like, but he pushed
me in the same direction he wasgoing, and I had no interest in
rapping.
I had no interest in reallymaking music, which is why I put

(22:01):
that to the side when the yearsstarted to pass by.
And I started to entertain theother side a little bit more.
That fascinated me a little bitmore than the whole music stuff.
And so, you know, they say, oh,you got to make a...

(22:23):
I'm sorry, go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 (22:24):
No, go ahead.
I don't want to interrupt.

SPEAKER_01 (22:27):
You know, so society...
They say, oh, you know, allthese musicians and stuff, they
make deals with the devil, allthis stuff.
And I guess in a sense, that'swhat I modeled.
But it's not like that cut anddry.

(22:48):
But it was, long story short,without beating around the bush,
he sent me over a script.
And it was supposed to bewritten on a certain...
piece of certain paper writtenwith certain ink um lit under a
candle in a certain manner youwere supposed to say certain
phrases before during after hadto take a shower before so it

(23:11):
was a whole ritual ritualisticprocess you had to be conducted
somewhere where there was acrossroad i mean it was a whole
you know but it was it was likea a real real deal process And

SPEAKER_04 (23:27):
the goal of that was you can have the desires of your
heart, and this is the avenue bywhich you need to gain them.
And it was connecting to help inthe spirit realm and not because
you weren't able to get there onyour own.

(23:49):
And this was someone in thechurch or was he already
outside?
Someone in the church.

SPEAKER_01 (23:55):
He was in the church at the time.
Now, he was a little bit olderthan my brother.
I'd say he was probably 16.
You know, he was younger.
It's not like he knew what hewas doing.
I mean, I don't necessarilyfault him.
I know it's his spirit.
I know our battle's not againstflesh and blood.

(24:18):
And,

SPEAKER_03 (24:18):
you

SPEAKER_01 (24:19):
know, so...
That is what it was.
It was, you know, you don't havethe ability, you don't have the
capabilities within your fleshalone to do the things that you
want to do.
And so in order to accomplishthose things, there has to be
some sort of non-humaninvolvement.

(24:42):
And I'll be honest, there is atruth element to that.
The Lord said in Zechariah, it'snot by might and it's not by
power, but it's by my spiritalone, saith the Lord of hosts.
And so even biblically, I'mthinking of stories, even

(25:07):
mediums and people on the otherside, they understand in their
own human ability.
Like when I was practicing, Ididn't...
the knowledge that I, I receivedthe people, it, I, I can't do
that in my ability.
Like that's not, there's no waya human, you're not, I mean, I

(25:30):
guess I took family therapy in,um, in a Texas Bible college.
And I guess, you know, he, hetalked about the mirror neurons
where you can map threats and,and somewhat perceive emotions
and, and in a sense, you know,sure.
But, But being able to tellsomebody, you know, or being

(25:54):
able to conjure the familiarspirit of somebody's dead
grandpa that's talking to them,that's beyond human ability.
Right.
That's not something that ahuman can do.
And so there is a truth elementto that.
And I saw that.

(26:14):
I saw that, you know, he's got apoint, right?
I'm a, and I don't, I don'tbring race into it, but I'm just
an innocent light kid, you know,that, I mean, I'm just not like,
that's not who I am.

(26:35):
And so I understand that therehas to be a molding to take
place.
And it did, you know, so I did,I went through, The entire
process.
I signed my name in blood, wrotethe whole.
I did everything he told me todo.

(26:56):
And I'll be honest.

SPEAKER_04 (26:57):
Which was basically a covenant, right?

SPEAKER_01 (27:01):
It was.
You

SPEAKER_04 (27:01):
made a covenant.
It was.
So he said, for you to havethis, you need to make a
covenant.
At that time, did you know itwas with the devil and you
consciously

SPEAKER_01 (27:14):
made the choice to do that?
I did.
I consciously did.
I consciously knew.

SPEAKER_04 (27:24):
Is it hard for you to talk about that today or do
you feel like you're carefulbecause you don't want other
people to necessarily gain thesame information that was given
to you in case they are in avulnerable state?
I can appreciate that.

(27:45):
Yeah.
But at the same time, thewoundedness of our heart is what
allows us to be easy prey forthe enemy.
And I say this a lot.
If we don't know how ouradversary comes against us, we

(28:06):
won't be equipped to recognizeit or to fight him because we're
unaware of his devices.

SPEAKER_01 (28:14):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, you know, I know it soundslike I'm being really dodgy.
And I'm not.
I'm very over the years.
I used to just lay it all out onthe table.
And I've learned that it willeither, one, it will overload
people and they won't processit.

(28:38):
Or two, I will accidentallycross the line and begin to
entertain the power of theenemy.
And that is something that Ivowed to the Lord I would never
do and that I would neverentertain or gloat in my past.
And I developed, I wouldn't sayme, I guess the Lord cultivated

(28:59):
a sensitivity to, I know I canfeel the line and I know when
I'm nearing the threshold.
And even if, see, here's thething.
We say, well, we're not tryingto entertain it.
Right.
But I can't control what they'reentertained by.

(29:22):
And that's why.
Right.
Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_04 (29:27):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 (29:29):
Yes.
And so that's why sometimes.
And you don't

SPEAKER_04 (29:30):
want to plant seeds mistakenly.

SPEAKER_01 (29:33):
Mistakenly.
Because that was

SPEAKER_04 (29:35):
planted in you.

SPEAKER_01 (29:37):
Right.
It was.
And that's why I'm very.
careful with what details Ishare, how I say it, how I
approach it, because somepeople, I'll tell it.
There was one kid, and Iremember we were in the living
room of a pastor's home, andthey were asking me, and it got

(30:00):
real.
I was sharing the rough details,and he said, You know, he said
he felt it crawl, like, youknow, the chills, you know, up
and down his face.
He said it felt like it wasswirling around his head.
And he told me, he said, dude,he said, I've never felt
anything like that.

(30:20):
Like that was one of thescariest atmospheres I've ever
been in.
And that's why I'm very carefulbecause I can handle it.
I'm not.
Like, I'm not going to bebothered by it.
It's not.
I would hate for a little kid tobe listening to this and

(30:43):
something bear witness in hisroom and he has no idea what it
is.
And it scares him away from God.
And that is why if you noticewhen I share it, I will always
exemplify the angelic over thedemonic.
And I'll say, yeah, there was adevil there.
but did you see the two angelsthat were standing there also?

SPEAKER_05 (31:06):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (31:06):
And I think that is vitally important because we in
the church, I see it preachingacross America.
They love my testimony.
And I've gotten to the point towhere I will open up talking
about the angelic.
And if they close up and they'rereserved, I will refuse to talk

(31:28):
about the demonic because Ithink a church that welcomes the
demonic And pushes away theangelic, that is deception.
And that's grounds for breedingdemonic activity.

SPEAKER_05 (31:41):
Open door.

SPEAKER_01 (31:44):
Yeah.
It's an open door.
Yeah.
And after I finished preaching,I went and sat in the back and
there was this young kid whocame up and walked and he sat
next to me.
I remember he was 13 years old,the same age I was.
And he said, Ethan, man, it waswith the purest intention.

(32:10):
He said, please tell me yourtestimony.
And immediately the Lordquickened my spirit.
And he said, don't say a word.
And I was like, You know, whenGod tells you stuff like that in
the moment, you know, you don't,you don't know what to say.
And so instead the Lord, hemoved on me with the word of

(32:31):
wisdom and gave me an analogy.
And I said, I said, buddy, yousee that, that guy over there,
your friend?
He said, I do.
I said, what's his name?
He told me his name.
I said, say me and you weresitting here and all of a sudden
I yelled his name.
And then just started talking toyou.
What do you think he'd do?

(32:52):
He said he'd probably turnaround.
I said, yeah.
I said, what if we continuetalking?
I looked up and yelled his nameagain.
He said he'd probably turnaround again.
I said, if we did that enoughtimes, what do you think would
happen?
He said he'd probably walk overhere.
I said, be careful what you callout to.
You never know when it's goingto walk up.

(33:13):
And that is why...
Like I said, I'm an open book,but before we really get into
this, I'll preface and let theaudience know this.
If you're easily entertained orenticed by these things, this is

(33:34):
probably the wrong podcast foryou.
It just really is, because Ihear these stories of some
people, and And I'm not callingthem liars by any means, but you
can tell a lot of it is, I hateto say fabricated, maybe

(33:55):
embellished a little bit.
And I try not to embellish asingle detail of my testimony.
And the reason I'm careful withwhat I share is because the
devils that tormented me werereal.
It wasn't a game.
I'm not lying about this stuff.
That's why I tell people, don'twatch horror movies, period.

(34:17):
Especially don't watch ones thatare based on real events.

SPEAKER_05 (34:22):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (34:23):
Because all that

SPEAKER_05 (34:25):
is real.

SPEAKER_01 (34:26):
It's very, very real.
I wanted to say that because Ihope you don't think I'm being
dodgy either.
I'm really not.
I'm just very careful.
I'd hate for somebody, aninnocent listener, to get the

(34:46):
wrong idea and just run with it.

SPEAKER_04 (34:52):
I'm glad you clarified that because it is
something that I've noticed withothers in ministry.
There is an apprehension to talkabout the real things that have
happened.
I had some experiences when Iwas young.
that happened to me and I wroteletters to preachers.

(35:18):
I asked everyone that I could,why did this happen?
Why did this happen?
I'll tell you real quickly.
When I was about 11, I had areally close walk with God from
an early age.
I always heard Him talking tome.
I always, I just felt like itwas Him and I.
I always, He was just alwayswith me.

(35:39):
And when I was 11, I woke up inthe middle of the night and
there were three demons in myroom, one at each foot of my bed
and one right next to me.
And I had a sleep paralysis.
Now I know it was sleepparalysis.
I didn't know that then.
And in my mind, I just keptpraying in Jesus' name, in

(36:04):
Jesus' name.
I just kept praying.
And for years, I wondered why.
I saw the demonic instead of theangelic.
My cousin had seen an angel.
And I knew that.
And so I grew up for yearstormented.
And especially when I backslid,I'd had dreams.

(36:29):
I had very real encounters.
And I think the enemy was alwaystrying to get me to believe that
that was my destiny.
Because if I was good, then Godwould have allowed me to see the
angelic and he never did.
And no one had answers for me.

(36:50):
And I asked some very well-knownpastors and no one could really
answer why that happened to me.
And now as a therapist, I havekiddos that come who are having
very real demonic encounters buthave no church background, no
history.

(37:11):
And so it's really real.
I've sort of sought tounderstand how the enemy works
against people in order to beable to show them how God works
and maybe why the enemy iscoming against them.
Not long ago, a couple yearsago, I was waiting to catch a

(37:36):
plane And I saw a demoniccreature.
I was by myself, and I was justoutside observing.
I saw a demonic creature.
And I knew that if that wasthere, that there would be an
angel there, too.
But no one taught me that.

(37:58):
I didn't know that, but I feltthe Lord show me that.
And then I just turned my gaze,and under a palm tree...
I saw the angel.
And I asked the Lord, why is itthat we are inclined to see the
demonic first?
Why does it take us so muchlonger to tune into the angelic,

(38:22):
to the good?
So I love that you just saidthat.
And I wonder if you could maybeanswer that.
Why are we prone to discernthings?
The darkness first.
Sure.
Even though in the midst ofthat, the Lord is there.

SPEAKER_01 (38:40):
Absolutely.
It is multifaceted.
Now, this isn't always, but Ithink the main reason is a
frequency issue.
And I don't say that as like apseudo-spiritual word.
It's a real term.

(39:01):
I was sitting at the table withmy mentor it was late one night
after church service and youknow we diffuse and we just talk
about stuff and I I haddeveloped an acute sensitivity
to the demonic being that thatwas my background that I

(39:21):
practiced witchcraft starting atage 13 and so I I remember we
were going into service and whenwe got out of the we got out of
the the Jeep, I started pickingup on stuff.
When I walked into thesanctuary, I looked at him and I

(39:43):
said, there have been childrensexually abused in the history
of this church.
And he just looked over at meand he said, he's preached there
before.
He said, how do you know that?
I said, I can feel the witness.
It's it's it's here and the thelet me let me clarify i felt the

(40:12):
reverberations of demonicactivity and a lot of times
that's what we pick up onanyways um And that happened a
few times, you know, and I wastelling him, you know, other
stories and pointing out otherthings.
Only as he can do, you know, Ican't mimic him the best, but

(40:35):
we're just sitting at the table.
I'm just telling him, you know,these stories.
And he slapped the table andpoints across, you know, with
his finger and says, yourfrequency is off.
I looked at him and said, man,what are you talking about?
He said, your frequency is off.
He said, you are focused on thedemonic.

(40:58):
And he said, if you could everlearn to switch that, and I
think it is literally as simpleas, we've all heard the analogy,
you know, look around the roomand find me everything that's
green.
And okay, 10 seconds pass, closeyour eyes, now tell me
everything that was red.
Well, you might be able to nameone thing, but you won't be able

(41:21):
to name it because that's whatyou were looking for.
And I think that is ourgeneration's problem probably is
that we're looking for

SPEAKER_05 (41:29):
it.
Very

SPEAKER_01 (41:31):
good.
And I think the first issue is afrequency problem.
The second issue, which is whatI learned on the other side, is
an expression problem.
I've learned a spirit loves toexpress itself.
Even if it is associated with ahuman, the human might not want
to express it, but it doesn'tmatter what the human wants.
It will seep out because aspirit loves to express itself.

(41:55):
And I believe every uncleanspirit, every demonic influence,
every fallen angel, at theircore, it is the same thing.
It all stems back to the issueof...
And even if it's a subtle pride,it is wanting to be noticed.

(42:20):
In some way, some shape, someform, some fashion, it wants to
be entertained.
But it wants you to know thatit's there.
Now, I've learned that about alot of spirits, even spirits
that love to live in, you know,anonymity, like Delilah.

(42:42):
Delilah might be a Delilah, butshe still loves to express
herself.
And she wants somebody to knowshe's there.
And the angelic might not bethat way.
The angelic is on a specificassignment.
Oh, because there's

SPEAKER_04 (42:58):
no need.
Oh, I love that.
Okay, there's no need for theexpression because there's no
pride.
There's no pride.
So it's so much more subtle.
Yes.
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (43:11):
Think about the times in Scripture.
Man, that

SPEAKER_04 (43:12):
is so good.

SPEAKER_01 (43:13):
Think about the times in Scripture where they
would ask the angel what theirname was.

SPEAKER_05 (43:21):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (43:21):
And he said, you don't need to ask me for his
name is in me.
They wanted to express him.
And so that's another thing.
If you're looking for theangelic and not Jesus, you'll
miss it too.

SPEAKER_05 (43:36):
Right,

SPEAKER_04 (43:37):
right.
And a lot of people don't catchthat also.

SPEAKER_01 (43:40):
If you're looking for them,

SPEAKER_04 (43:42):
it's

SPEAKER_01 (43:42):
purity.
They reflect Him.
And the moment they think thatwe glorify and worship them,
they're gone.
Because they express Him.
They just want to reflect Him.
And so you'll go wrong if youfocus on them too much as well.

(44:02):
And it is so simple.
If you keep your focus on Jesus,Then you'll start to notice
because he's the one.
We don't control angels, but weknow who does.
We don't commission angels, butwe know who does.
And devils might act out ofspontaneity sometimes.
Angels never do.

(44:24):
They're on specific assignment.
They're there for a certainreason, whether it be to deliver
a message, whether it be toharvest a soul, whether it be to
war and fight for a city or fora church or for a family.
They are there for a specificpurpose.
And their ministry has theability to bless us if we're
open to it.

(44:44):
But if we're so focused on whatthe enemy's doing and the power
of the enemy, then the Lord willsay, if that's what you want,
thy will be done.
And that's what most people willsee.
I know that was a long answer,but I think that issue is
multifaceted.
Oh, it's perfect.

UNKNOWN (45:02):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (45:03):
I think it is a frequency issue.
And then at the same time, Ithink it is an expression issue.
Spirit loves to express itself.
And when you're seeking it,entertaining it in a spirit
love, it's just, it's a combo.
It's just, it's waiting tohappen.
You know, demonic visitation iswaiting to happen at that point.
If that makes

SPEAKER_04 (45:23):
sense.
Oh, it makes so much sense.
And I hear frequency a lot.
I haven't.
I'm like, oh, that just soundslike a new age term.
But I do hear it creeping up ina Christian context, and I'm
like, what does that mean?
But for you, you're saying it'sjust what we've been accustomed

(45:47):
to tuning into.

SPEAKER_01 (45:48):
Right, right.

SPEAKER_04 (45:50):
So, Brother Longston, in this analogy you
just gave about picking up onthe abuse that happened in the
church.

SPEAKER_02 (45:59):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (46:01):
I think your mentor was right.
Obviously, you do too in sayingyou have a frequency issue.
But at the same time, you hadvery real discernment about harm
that was happening in what issupposed to be a safe place.
And I can tell you there aremany stories I know of too where

(46:26):
pastors have sexually abusedchildren their own children and
other people that have beenabused in the church.
And those could be some of thebacksliders that are sitting out
there who refused to come backto the Lord because they were
wounded in what they attributedto be godly.

(46:48):
So how do you balance out whatyou felt in the Spirit, which
was very real, and also what Hesaid, which was also very real?
How do you find that balancethere?
in addressing that.

SPEAKER_01 (47:00):
You know, so let's say, let's say I go into a place
and I feel something similar,you know, I feel the open wounds
of abuse or, you know, trauma.
I believe every gift flows outof wisdom.
And I think the right thing atthe wrong time is the wrong

(47:23):
thing.
And I, when it comes toespecially children, you've got
to be so delicate in the way youhandle it and the way you
operate.
Because I remember I went to achurch one time.

(47:44):
We were in massive revival.
We saw a girl who was deafreceive her hearing in front of
everybody.
Everybody saw it.
Her dad was an unbeliever.
He came the very next day.
I mean, it was like things werehappening.
And one of those nights, I wasup praying, and it was like 2 or
3 in the morning, which is peaktime for demonic activity.

(48:08):
And something came walking intothe sanctuary, and I saw it.
And it was very unclean, and I'dseen it before.
And normally with these things,in order to have apostolic
authority, you have to respectapostolic jurisdiction and
apostolic government.
And so I went to the localassembly's pastor and where we

(48:30):
were having, you know, I justdidn't go to the pulpit and let
it fly.
You know, I went to him and Isaid, hey, this is something
you're going to handle.
Maybe I'm wrong.
I'm laying it at your feet.
I picked up on the spirit andI've seen the spirit before and
it harms children.
It's very unclean, which makesme lean toward the direction of
sexual.

(48:51):
I said, I could be wrong.
In two days it came out.
And that it was happening.
And so, but here's whathappened.
Everybody in the church foundout.
And it stopped the revivalcompletely.
Completely.
Nobody, that next altar call,and we had to end it.

(49:12):
And you say, you know, well,that was good, you know, that he
was exposed.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
The Lord told David this onetime.
David was tore up over his sinwith Bathsheba, and God said,
I've forgiven you.
You're okay with me, David.
But what you've done is you'vegiven your enemies the

(49:34):
opportunity to blaspheme myname.

SPEAKER_05 (49:37):
Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 (49:38):
And I never want to do that.
I want to be so, so careful withthat stuff because— If my
frequency is off and all I seeis what the enemy is doing, I
will lose sight of what God istrying to do in the assembly.

(49:59):
While I could let God handlethat on the side, if I don't use
wisdom, it could stop the entirerevival and the train could
completely stop in its tracks.
And I think the devil willsometimes uncover things and
expose sin and become theadversary of the brethren and
accuse because he sees somethingcoming.

(50:20):
And he says, I need to stop it.
And even if it takes uncoveringa

SPEAKER_05 (50:25):
sin,

SPEAKER_01 (50:26):
he will.
And people will say, that'sbackwards.
God is the one.
God does bring light to darksituations, but I've watched the
devil do it as well.
And he does it verystrategically.
And that's because that did stopthe revival completely.
Now, I'm not saying he shouldhave.
He had what was coming to him.
Don't get me wrong.
But I balance it in that if Istay focused and all I'm looking

(50:51):
for is that, then I will miss,you're right, there was abuse,
but I know a healer.

SPEAKER_04 (50:56):
Right.
And restoration, really.

SPEAKER_01 (51:00):
And restoration.
And there is...
If I go devil chasing and devilhunting and all I'm doing is
calling out the wickedness, I'llforget that I serve a God of
mercy and I serve a God of love.
I love that.
You know, he said, the Biblecalls him the God of Abraham,

(51:24):
Isaac, and Jacob.
And I always thought that wasinteresting because it said
Abraham, but his first name wasAbram.

SPEAKER_03 (51:35):
And

SPEAKER_01 (51:36):
he changed his name to Abraham.
But for Jacob, he changed his toIsrael.
But he didn't say, I'm the Godof Abraham, Isaac, and Israel.
He said, I'm the God of Abraham,

SPEAKER_04 (51:46):
Isaac,

SPEAKER_01 (51:48):
and Jacob.
And so he was letting peopleknow before he stepped in and
really got working.
He said, I'm still your God.
I still want you.
I still love you.
And so balance and I while atthe same time, I do pick up on

(52:11):
the abuse.
I do pick up on the hurt and thepain.
On the other hand, I can't turnmy head this way and forget that
there's healing on this side.
And if all I do is go in thereand roll heads and scream and
get mad at the devil, which isall good, I'll forget that there
were little kids who were hurtin that place.
And I might need to come in witha message on healing.

(52:32):
And you can get out of this,even though the devil's lying to
you.
And he's telling you that you'llalways face trauma from this and
you'll always think of this.
And, you know, no matter who youdate, you'll always think of
this.
That's a lie.
And so if I don't say thosethings and address that and all
I do is roll the devil's head,I've missed it.
I've missed the angelic.

(52:53):
And that's more than just theangelic and the demonic.
That's a principle.
If we stay so focused on thatside, we'll miss the other.
Does that answer it?
Oh,

SPEAKER_04 (53:13):
yeah.
I think it is beautiful becauseit is such a clear expression, I
think, of how God works.
And it's easy.
I meet a lot of people who havesuch a justice, a sense of
justice woven into theirpersonality and their need for

(53:36):
just and righteousness.
But like you said, we justhaven't had the balance of the
mercy and the fact that nomatter who the abuser is, no
matter what a person has done,they're a soul.
They're still a soul that Godloves, and we have to be vessels

(54:03):
of love for them to be.
to be able to create anatmosphere where they can be
restored.
And it is, I think you're right,it takes wisdom to know where
are we in these situations toknow how to proceed.

SPEAKER_01 (54:18):
Yeah.
And I do want to say, when Jesussaid, it's better for a
millstone to be tied around yourneck and cast in the sea than to
harm one of these little ones.
I do believe that's true.
When somebody wants to taint theinnocence of a child, there is

(54:41):
something, I believe, I don'tbelieve that's natural.
I don't.
I believe there's somethingdemonic behind that genre
completely.
And so at the same time, while Ibelieve in, here's what people,
here's what we don't clarify.
I believe in restoration andreconciliation to God.
and that your soul can be saved.

(55:03):
Now, do I believe inreconciliation to your position
in ministry?
That's the difference.
I don't believe.
I believe you forfeited thatright.
When you have shown yourself tomishandle the sheep of God,
because they're not even ours,you have chosen yourself.

(55:25):
You've chosen for yourself.
That's what you...
It's like the analogy, my mentorused an analogy of somebody
walking off of a diving board.
And if the pool below the divingboard represents the judgment of
God, when you walk off of thatdiving board, it's not that God

(55:46):
is actively moving against you.
You have fallen into hisjudgment.
Like that's just what's there.

SPEAKER_05 (55:52):
And

SPEAKER_01 (55:53):
I think when people choose to walk, God might not
necessarily be moving.
You've chosen.
That's just what's there.
And so when you choose to dosomething like that, because you
do choose.
I know this sounds very harsh.
I don't care what people say.
We have free will.

(56:13):
And so when you choose to dosomething like that, you have
forfeited your right.
I believe, that's just me, ofministry.
And I believe you can bereconciled to God.
I believe your soul can besaved.
I believe you can repent.
But I do believe you'll reapwhat you sow.
And if that is legalconsequences, that'll happen.
That doesn't mean you won'treceive mercy from God.

(56:36):
It might mean you won't receivemercy from the American justice
system.
Right.
You chose.
And so I do want to prefacethat.
When I say I believe inrestoration and healing, I'm not
saying I believe that theyshould be restored to their
position in ministry, but I dobelieve that they should and can

(56:56):
be restored to their position inGod and back to sonship or
daughtership.
I will say that.
I'm an advocate for mercy, butat the same time, I'm an
advocate of you reap what yousow.

SPEAKER_04 (57:09):
Sure.
Well, yeah, I fully agree.
I know we kind of devi off fromyour testimony, but there's so
much, and I'm glad you're not ina hurry.
And to anybody watching, this isgoing to be lengthy because I
think there's so much gold hereand just so many valuable things

(57:30):
that I think is just sorepresentative of the Lord and
how to walk this journey out.
So you go through this ritual,and I know without describing
it, some of the things you'vesaid are so very parallel to the

(57:53):
cleansing process we go throughwith Jesus.
You said you had to take ashower.
I did.
We get baptized.
I want you to share whateveryou're comfortable with.
Sure.
Because the devil counterfeitseverything of the Lord.
There are so many parallels towhat you did from an intentional

(58:18):
place to what we do as aChristian when we come to the
Lord.
Do you want to talk about whathappened when you did that and
what came next for you?

SPEAKER_01 (58:30):
Sure.
People don't understand.
There's this whole movement outthere.
right now you know it's againstworks you know you're safe by by
grace through faith and notworks lest any man should boast
and what the apostle was talkingabout was a work of the work of
the flesh so so you're you'reyou're exactly right in that

(58:52):
there are parallels and when wedo something in the natural
there is something happening inthe spirit and so like baptism
People will say, you know,baptism is necessary to be saved
because they consider it a workof the flesh.
Well, it's not because there'ssomething spiritual that is
taking place when that happens.

(59:15):
It's not a work of the flesh.
And the enemy has mirrored thatconcept, and he understands that
there are things, if he can getyou to do it in the natural,
there is something spiritualthat will happen in the realm
above us or parallel to us.
And so...
When you do things like washyourself before and after,

(59:36):
there's a cleansing takingplace.
There's a whole script I had towrite out, which was pretty
rough when I think about what itwas.
Once I wrote it out, I was toldto light it under a certain
candle.

(59:57):
and burn it and say certainwords inside, and I did all
that.
And I'll be honest, at 13, youknow, I'm young, I'm like, eh,
this stuff ain't real.

SPEAKER_04 (01:00:07):
Just go, right,

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:08):
right.
When I lifted the page up, Iremember, and I felt the back,
and it felt like, almost likebraille, like different than,
you know, writing into a pieceof cloth and you can sort of

(01:00:28):
feel the indentions.
It felt engraved.
I was like, that's weird.
You know, I'm not, you know, I'mnot the most spiritual at 13,
but that's kind of weird.
And I've always been fairlysensitive.
I've always been a feeler, not abig seer, but I've always been a
big feeler.
And I could feel, you know,sometimes it was just off.

(01:00:50):
You know, people said the air inthe room is just off, you know,
just off.
And when I, when I, it didn'tlike, it didn't click and me
really feel something off untilit was done.
When I, when I cut my hand,signed, signed my name in blood,

(01:01:14):
even then, you know, I'm noteven thinking I'm not.
And I go and I light it on fireand I say these, this, this
phrase three times.
That is when I remember therewas a, from where I was facing,

(01:01:35):
there was a neighborhood over tomy front left.
There were neighborhoods allaround, but I remember that's
where it started.
And there was like a wind, andpeople are going to think this
is crazy, but they're entitledto their own

SPEAKER_05 (01:01:50):
opinion.
Oh, I believe it.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:51):
And it's like a, like a wind started there, and I
could hear the wind chimes,every wind chime from that
neighborhood.
The dogs started barking.
And it's like this wind startedtraveling around, and I heard
other wind chimes just allaround me, just wind chimes.
And even in places where therewere no wind chimes, I heard

(01:02:13):
wind chimes.
And they got louder, and I heardour dogs started barking.
We have two huge guard dogs.
They started barking.
And all around, almost like itwas closing in.
And when it did, it felt liketwo hands came and rested on my
shoulders.
And like, almost like it, almostlike, think of like a silhouette

(01:02:37):
or a shadow, like, like, likenot like attaching itself to my
body, like, like almostseamlessly.
Is that, does that, does thatmake sense?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like almost seamlessly, likeit's around me.

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:54):
And

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:56):
I was like, oh, and I kid you not.
I remember for the first time, Ihad like a vision.
And what's funny is I don't knowwhy the Lord's impressing this

(01:03:17):
on me right now.
I've never shared this partbefore.
And it's funny because I haddreams later about it.
People are going to think thisis crazy, whatever.
And I went into my first visionand there was a small, it looked
like a little parakeet or like alittle parrot that came and
rested on my shoulder.

(01:03:39):
And not literally like I, and Iwas like, that was weird.
And I heard a laugh.
And I was like, I need to goinside.
Like this is something.
That's when I realized I justdid something.
Like this wasn't just up late atnight playing a game.

(01:04:00):
I just did something.
Were

SPEAKER_04 (01:04:07):
you afraid at that moment?

SPEAKER_01 (01:04:09):
I was.
I was.
I started getting really likevivid images of some gruesome
things and just very violent.
And I remember I ran inside andI took a shower and I remember
standing at the sink and I waslike just rubbing my face.
Like I didn't know whatsomething was happening to me.

(01:04:30):
I had no idea what it was.
I mean, I had no idea.
I just invoked a demon and notjust entertained it, but I
invited it to walk with me.
And that was the difference.
And I remember going to sleepthat night And when I woke up,

(01:04:50):
everything was back to normal.
Everything.
Like, you know, strangelynormal.
But that is when I learned aboutthe process of manifestation.
And manifestation is not animmediate thing.
And it's not this new ageconcept of manifestation.
Manifestation is spiritual inits essence.

(01:05:14):
And what it means is...
I don't want to get too boggeddown.
Do you know how in Genesis 1, hesaid, let us make man in our
image after our likeness, thatthem have dominion over the fish
of the sea or the fowl of theair.

(01:05:34):
And so male and female createdhe them, and God blessed them,
said, be fruitful and multiply.
And we read over that.
We read through the Genesisnarrative, but we don't even
stop to think.
That was in Genesis 1.
Adam wasn't formed...
until Genesis 2.
And Eve wasn't formed out of hisside until Genesis 2 and 22.

(01:05:55):
So what was going on in Genesis1?

SPEAKER_04 (01:05:59):
Where they were already spoken.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:03):
Spoken.
Right.
And so there was a patternestablished in the spirit.
That is what manifestation is.
You can't manifest what doesn'thave a pattern.
And I don't mean to get into allof this stuff.
No,

SPEAKER_04 (01:06:18):
this is so good.
Brother Ethan, this is so goodbecause what you're talking
about is the power of what wespeak and your invitation to
that demon, which is the same asour confession to the Lord and
asking Him.
I believe it's way more thanasking Him into our heart.

(01:06:42):
But that is the permission thatwe give God to cross over us.
from this heavenly realm into usbecause free will only exists if
we choose.
So I think what you're saying issomething that I believe that's

(01:07:04):
why we fail frequently inprayer, like why it's so hard
for people to really believe inwhat they pray for and to really
pray for with the confidence andthe fervency because we're maybe
missing, maybe not everybody ismissing it, but prayer is just

(01:07:26):
something that we've always beentold what to do.
But this concept of the delaybetween the spoken word and the
manifestation of that spokenword, I think is so powerful
that would bring a lot of,Encouragement and faith to the

(01:07:48):
body if they just understood theprinciple that you're
describing.
So I hope that you will speakmore on that because it's very
powerful.

SPEAKER_01 (01:08:00):
Absolutely.
So you can't manifest a patternthat is not there.
Or if you do, it's not of Godand it won't be fruitful.
and it won't be multiplied, andit won't be blessed.
Because you cannot find a singleplace after Adam and Eve are

(01:08:21):
formed, or you can use the wordmanifested, where God verbally
speaks that same blessing overthem.
He blessed the image.
He blessed the pattern.
And He said, you in and ofyourself are not.
blessed it is the image that iset up and that i've established

(01:08:42):
that has my blessing so as longas you live in these parameters
you will be blessed and you willbe fruitful and you will
multiply and you will manifestthese characteristics but the
moment you try to manifestsomething else it's not a
blessing that follows it's acurse and so he said he said if
you live up to this this imageThese qualities will begin to

(01:09:04):
manifest.
You will have dominion.
You will be fruitful.
You will multiply.
But you cannot manifest what'snot in the image.
Adam and Eve, no matter how muchthey strived, and that's the
thing about manifestation.
People think they have thiswhole New Age concept of
striving, and you have to justsay it over and over.
You don't have to strive.
If it is in God's will for youto have it, you don't have to

(01:09:26):
strive.
You don't have to say the rightword.
Like, I receive it.
I claim it.
That's That really, in the grandscheme of things, it doesn't
matter.
If God wants you to have it,obedience is what he desires.
Obedience is what brings aboutthe manifestation of the sons of
God.
That's what it takes.

(01:09:47):
And so as long as Adam and Evewere obedient, they stayed under
the blessing.
And so that is how that processworks.
But I had to submit my obediencenot to God.
And what that means is it is nownot just what I say, it is what
I do.
I've got to look a certain way.

(01:10:09):
I've got to talk a certain way.
I've got to dress.
And all of these things thatbegan the process of
manifestation because a spiritin and of itself...
Was that

SPEAKER_04 (01:10:19):
conscious?
It

SPEAKER_01 (01:10:21):
wasn't.
None of this was conscious.
It was after the fact I realizedwhat was going on and God gave
me a deeper understanding of...
When I got older, I understood.
I looked back and I understoodwhat was happening.
Because people don't know.
And spirits are formless.

(01:10:42):
They don't have.
So the only way they canmanifest is through a person.
Manifestation is not a form.
it's not technically a spiritualword.
It only relates to the earthbecause that's what it means for
something to manifest is that itis brought from another reality

(01:11:03):
and it manifests into thephysical.
And so when a spirit, the onlyway, I really want to, I hope
people catch this concept.
The only way something can befully manifest is if the
qualities of that personformless spirit are are aligned

(01:11:25):
and then it can breach it worksthe same with the holy ghost the
only way his spirit is able tomanifest and breach through a
believer is if his qualities arealigned which is the fruit of
the spirit and so so once thosequalities are are put in place

(01:11:49):
and you look right, you actright, you talk right, and all
of these, that is whenmanifestation begins.
That's why they said the earthtravails awaiting the
manifestation of the sons ofGod.
It's waiting for people to catchthis, that the only way a spirit
can truly manifest is the momentthe qualities are in alignment

(01:12:12):
with that individual.
And so that spirit had to waituntil I looked like it, I talked
like it, until it, boom, it tookform through me.
And I became its hands and Ibecame its feet and I became its
mouth.
Does that make sense?
Because the spirit isn't human.

(01:12:32):
Yes.
Has no form.

SPEAKER_04 (01:12:34):
Thousand percent.
So when you woke up the next dayand everything was normal, even
though the work was done...
because of the invitation andthe ritual, it took time for
that spirit to manifest in youto where you began to look like
it, talk like it, act like it.
The form it wanted to take, itjust used you as a host to do

(01:12:58):
so.
And so this is where I think,I'll try not to cry.
But I think that this is such apowerful piece because growing

(01:13:19):
up in church, holiness is alwaysspoken about from the outward
appearance.
And I have a whole...
The Lord is teaching me.
This is very powerful for me.
But so the depth of...

(01:13:40):
the outer shell has not reallybeen conveyed, or maybe it is,
but we just get tripped up byperhaps offense, perhaps pride,
perhaps all sorts of otherthings that exist in those of us
who grew up in church and wholeft.
And I think I can see, becauseI've been at other churches, I

(01:14:11):
can see that there is a depth ofthe Spirit and there is a move
of the Spirit and an anointingthat doesn't exist in other
places.
And not that I have lots offriends in other churches and
pastors and stuff, but I'mtalking about for me and what

(01:14:32):
I'm looking for in my walk withGod.
And I have related it to thecorrelation between The outward,
because the people that I honorand that I see the love and
grace of God in live that.

(01:14:52):
But I think, and God's doing awork in me in that, but I think
what you're talking about is sovery powerful in both worlds,
because it's very easy to seehow the enemy is working in
someone because it shows intheir outward.
I particularly noticed that whenpeople are marked with tattoos.

(01:15:17):
And I know there's a lot ofbelief systems over that, but I
read Dan Brown's book, and Iforget the name of it, but the
guy that was serving the devilhad tattooed his whole entire
body in order to become arepresentation of the demon that

(01:15:41):
he was manifesting.
So that's where I began to sortof understand that.
But I love what you're saying.
I feel like the parallel betweenhow it works in the demonic
realm and the holiness from aspiritual place, like God just
does that work in us on his own.

(01:16:03):
Right.
Right.
As we yield to him.

SPEAKER_03 (01:16:06):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:16:07):
But I just think there's missing pieces that we
don't maybe know how to conveyin the same way.
So continue.

SPEAKER_01 (01:16:18):
Yeah.
You know, and it is all like mymentor does something like this
with his fingers.
He said, all of this is tightlyfit and joined together.
There is so much overlap in thekingdom of God and how this

(01:16:39):
stuff works.
It's crazy.
And the reason you'll see me, Ilook up a lot and I'll scramble
for words, is because I've gotit all up here.
But the way to bring it out iscrazy.
It's hard because a lot of it isgoing to be anthro, you know,
just try and relate it becauseit's a spiritual concept.

(01:17:02):
But all of these things are sowoven together because you can
have the inside and not theoutside, and it's not right.
And you can have the outside andnot the inside, and it's not
right.
It's got to be both.
It's got to come togetherbecause if you've got the
shield, the outside, without theinside, you miss the support

(01:17:27):
that is necessary to uphold theoutside, and it will eventually
fail.
And if you really have it on theinside, it will begin to
manifest to the outside.
So it is difficult to fake theinside, because those qualities
will begin to manifest.

(01:17:47):
And I do believe holiness beginsinwardly, and it expresses
itself outwardly.
outwardly it it is always italways begins inwardly and you
know and so the the parallelsare shockingly the same on the

(01:18:08):
other on the other side they ifyou notice and then again it
depends there because becausethere are thousands of different
forms of of witchcraft so a lotof them But if you notice, I was
talking with our missionary toEcuador just a few weeks ago,

(01:18:29):
and she was over at the house,and we were just having a
really, really powerful move ofGod.
And she started talking aboutthe witch doctors that she comes
in contact with over there, andthey all have a certain look.
They've got a certain just feelto them.
And it is because...

(01:18:51):
they are giving a form to aspirit they host that is
formless.
That's why they do the thingsthey do.
That's why they look the waythey look.
Because like we said, like it'sall tightly fit and joined
together.
We already talked about itbefore.
A spirit loves to expressitself.

SPEAKER_05 (01:19:10):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (01:19:11):
A spirit loves to express itself.
It is going to try and find away to, because it has no other
way to express itself other thanthrough us.
And we don't catch that.
And the kingdom of God is thesame way.
The body of Christ is throughbelievers.
The body of Satan is the exactsame way.

(01:19:33):
His kingdom works throughpeople.
That is the only way.
That is what works.
Half of this thing is about themneeding a host, God needing a
vessel.
Both parties need a vessel.
I guess they don't need, but inthe way the system works, they

(01:19:54):
use vessels to accomplish willson earth.
And everybody knows that if thevessel is more...
more like its potter.
It's got that same feel.
It's going to be more useful.
It's going to be more effective.
And so that is why a spirit willtry its best to have you take

(01:20:19):
its form.
And that is why Jesus strives sohard through his spirit to make
us more like him so that he canmanifest himself through us.
And that is why it all boilsdown to willingness and
surrender.
And whatever level of obediencewe're willing to give God.
And the other side's the sameway.

(01:20:41):
The spirits oftentimes flow tothe point of least resistance.
And so if you won't resist itand let it have its way, both
sides, they'll take you whereverlike a river.
And so there are, like you said,there are a lot of parallels
there.

SPEAKER_04 (01:21:01):
Did you ever find yourself unable?
Did that spirit take over to thepoint where you became its
slave?
Do you ever feel you weresubjugated to it until you
became delivered?
Or do you feel that you werewillingly always a participant?

SPEAKER_01 (01:21:25):
So I've learned this is how Satan works.
He doesn't like that wordbecause he doesn't want you to

SPEAKER_05 (01:21:40):
think.

SPEAKER_01 (01:21:43):
He doesn't like people thinking they're slaves.
And what that means is themoment you think, whether it is
human ego or...
That is why addicts will notadmit they're addicted.

SPEAKER_04 (01:21:57):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (01:21:58):
He don't want you to think you're addicted.
He don't want you to thinkyou're a slave.
And so...
There were times where, yes, Iwas and I didn't even know it.
I thought I could have sworn upand down.
No, no, no.
This is me.
But hindsight is 20-20.
I didn't have as much controlover my will as I thought I did.

(01:22:19):
And that is what people don'tunderstand.
The Bible said he's cunning.
He's a very cunning taskmaster.
He knows how to rule overpeople.
He doesn't want you to thinkhe's ruling over you, though.
He doesn't want you.
Because that's the whole trick.

(01:22:42):
Right, the deception that you'restill in

SPEAKER_04 (01:22:45):
control.

SPEAKER_01 (01:22:46):
It's the deception that you're still in control.
And see, that's the allure hegives is freedom.
You know, that's just a bunch ofrules.
But on my side, I got somefreedom.
I mean, Eve, he don't want youto be like him.
That's the whole reason he letyou eat the fruit.

(01:23:08):
He knows that if you eat of it,you're going to become like him.
You could be free.
You could be like him.
And here's the thing.
Here's where his initial liebegins.
He got Eve chasing somethingthat already belonged to her.
She was the only creaturecreated in the image of God.
The only creature.

SPEAKER_02 (01:23:25):
And

SPEAKER_01 (01:23:26):
the devil sold her a lie of something that God had
already offered her.

SPEAKER_05 (01:23:31):
That

SPEAKER_01 (01:23:31):
is what people don't understand.
That's powerful.

(01:23:53):
It's something that God hasalready laid on the table.
It's something that he's alreadyintegrated into the system.
He said, he just doesn't wantyou to be like him.
He knows you're going to be likehim.

SPEAKER_03 (01:24:01):
And

SPEAKER_01 (01:24:02):
Eve could have stopped and said, wait, we're
the only creature that Godbreathed on and we became a
living soul.
And we're the only one who wascreated in his image.
So that's his trick.
It's a facade of freedom.
It's, hey, you could come outand I could fill a void you've
been seeking.

SPEAKER_03 (01:24:23):
God

SPEAKER_01 (01:24:24):
already does that.
So like you said, it's adeception.
He's tricky with the way he doesthings and words things.

SPEAKER_04 (01:24:33):
Was there a time that you felt that you didn't
have any control?
I had a kiddo once who, I don'tknow all the details.
Mom was present at the time, butreally...
jumped into witchcraft and theoccult and found themselves

(01:25:00):
afraid, really even of talkingto me, but afraid of saying
anything because they werethreatened by the demonic.
And so they were very much aslave to whatever that demon
wanted and began...
acting in that way.

(01:25:21):
And I don't know what happenedthere, but there was such a
battle of that person being ableto just talk about what was
happening because they were soafraid they were being
threatened on the other side.
Did you ever feel like that?
Did you go through thoseexperiences?

SPEAKER_01 (01:25:43):
I did.
Probably the scariest encounterI ever had with...
A demon was a threat.
And it was...
It walked into my room,actually.
It woke me up.
And actually, you know, when yousurrender yourself to the hand

(01:26:03):
of the enemy, they have acertain...
They do have a certainjurisdiction.
Not as much as, you know,they'll tell you they have.
God.
And, you know, he...
And he put me back to sleep andhe...
It was a rough dream.
And he did.
He threatened me and told methat if I ever tried to leave

(01:26:25):
this thing, that he would killme.
And that the only way he wasgetting out of it, I was getting
out of this thing, was if hewanted me to get out of it.
But now, 2020, there's somethingI learned about the enemy.
And if he is saying he's goingto do something, that means he

(01:26:46):
doesn't have the power to do it.
The very fact that he's sayingit tells me, because I know
enough about the enemy at thispoint.
You ain't going to tell me ifyou're going to do something.
You're just going to do it.
When you tell me you're going toattack my marriage, or when you
attack my marriage, he doesn'ttell me.

(01:27:07):
He just does

SPEAKER_05 (01:27:09):
it.

SPEAKER_01 (01:27:09):
When he wants to attack my finances, he's not
going to tell me.
He's just going to do it.
When he got ready to attack Job,he didn't tell him.
He just did it.
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (01:27:19):
And

SPEAKER_01 (01:27:20):
so if he's telling you he's going to do something,
he is already letting you know,I don't have the power to do it,
but I do have the power tointimidate and threaten.
And because if he really wantedto do something, he'd just do it
if God allowed him to do it.
There's no point in him justsaying it.

(01:27:40):
I hope that makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 (01:27:43):
Oh, man, that's so good.
That's so good because I thinkthat that's a principle, right?
Yeah.
That is how the spirit ofintimidation works.
That's how it works throughpeople.
And yeah, I think that that'spowerful for people who live in
intimidation when they live witha spouse or an abuser in their

(01:28:06):
life.
That's exactly how it behaves.
And so to recognize, if you'retelling me it's because you're
ultimately afraid, because Iactually have more power than
they think.
I think that's revelatory.

SPEAKER_01 (01:28:22):
Yeah.
I went into a vision one time.
I really, really struggled withintimidation, and I really did.
And I didn't know what God wasshowing me.
In what sense?
What sense

SPEAKER_04 (01:28:40):
were you struggling with intimidation?
Intimidating others or beingintimidated?

SPEAKER_01 (01:28:49):
Being intimidated.
And there are certain people,and it's so funny.
Not funny.
It's funny when God spoke thisto me.
It was people who wouldintimidate me.
But I can spot the spirit ofintimidation from a mile away.
Yeah.

(01:29:11):
When people truly host theSpirit, because they're, like I
said, all of this is so tightlyfit and joined together.
The Spirit loves to expressitself so it will manifest in
their characteristics.
I hope people catch this.
He showed me a vision, and I wasstanding at nighttime.

(01:29:32):
I was on a bank, and it lookedlike an ocean, dark water.
And He said, Ethan, swim across.
And I'm looking out and I'mlike, God, there's...
You seeing what I'm seeing rightnow?

(01:29:55):
Look at this.
It's dark water.
I mean, it looked like it wasfor miles.
He said, just swim across.
And I said, I wrestled.
Okay.
I...
I take the first step and itdoesn't even go past my ankles.

(01:30:16):
And I keep walking and it'll gopast my ankles.
I keep walking and it'll go pastmy ankles.
I said, what is this?
He said, it's the spirit ofintimidation.
It is miles wide and it's aninch deep.

SPEAKER_05 (01:30:31):
Wow.

SPEAKER_01 (01:30:33):
And you will learn people who have the spirit of
intimidation, they're about aninch deep.
spiritually, emotionally,mentally, everything about them.
They're very shallow.
But for whatever reason, becausethey're manifesting the
characteristics of a spirit ofintimidation, intimidation only
has a facade.

(01:30:53):
That is what makes intimidationintimidation.
People think, see, a threat isdifferent from an intimidation.
Intimidation is intentional.
It is a tactic.
Intimidation is saying,intimidation If I can make you
think I'm going to do something,that's where the power is.

(01:31:15):
A threat is I actually have thepotential to do something.
And so I'm sorry if I messed upthose terms earlier, but there
is a difference.
And a lot of times what theenemy does is he intimidates.
I don't know that he ever hasthe power to truly threaten.
I don't think God lets him dothat.

(01:31:36):
I don't think he can say youtake two steps and we'll pop
you.
I don't think God will let himdo that.
I personally, I can't see it inscripture, but I do know he
loves to intimidate.
And when he intimidates you, itis going to look miles wide.
And it's going to be like mestanding on that shore.
There's literally no way I canconfront this.

(01:31:57):
Like there is no way.
And then you get out there andyou're like, wait, that's all
this was?
That is what this is, really.
And to me, that's what I'velearned, the threats of the
enemy.
It's intimidation.
It is intimidation.
A lot of his work isintimidation.

SPEAKER_04 (01:32:18):
And I think when it comes to addicts and when it
comes to backsliders, thatintimidation of all the things
they think they have to do inorder to make it back is miles
wide.
Like you said, it just seems...
unachievable uncrossable like Ican't do it but when you start

(01:32:39):
it's never anything like itlooks like it's going to be and
I think the enemy uses that yeahif they can just get started
just take the first step likeyou said just take the first
step because the enemy wants tomake people see the future in a
big you know like a big pictureinstead of just the immediate

(01:33:04):
step that needs to be taken.
Wow, that's such a really goodvisual.
So what happened after that?
So I know we're...
Thank you for taking the time totalk all of this through.
I think these are principlesthat you're sharing that's
really going to make adifference to people because

(01:33:28):
it's so powerful.
To me, it's powerful.
So you began to manifest thespirit that you were hosting.
And so what then did manifest?
What did that look like for youin your life?

SPEAKER_01 (01:33:41):
Yeah.
So at 13, I smoked weed for thefirst time.
I drank for the first time,which is...
It's not funny, but I say funnyas in, you know, how convenient
that it started on substances.
Because the Greek word forwitchcraft is pharmakia or

(01:34:02):
pharma.
And it is a lot of what, a lotof witchcraft, when people begin
the practice, they will takesome substance.
And it is a gate, because it's agateway.
It's into witchcraft.
a level of spiritual activitybecause that's why people say,

(01:34:24):
oh, like I'll ask again becauseit's so joined together.
People don't even realize whatthey're saying.
They say, I do things on thatI'd never do sober.
Right.
Because you're more prone tomanifest the characteristics of
a spirit.
It weakens the veil between youand the spirit.

(01:34:46):
And it allows more of itscharacteristics to slip out And
it's trying to change yourpersonality.
That's what it's trying to do.
It's trying to mold you into it.
And so a lot of times I didn't.
That's so

SPEAKER_04 (01:35:00):
powerful.

SPEAKER_01 (01:35:02):
I never do that sober.
Right.
That's the whole point.
That spirit knows when you're inyour right mind, you'd never do
something like that.
You'd never say something likethat.
You'd never do the things or gothe places you'd go.
But if he can get you to breakthat veil, then his influence is
a lot stronger because you'llfeel more emotional.

(01:35:25):
You'll sense a little more.
On some drugs, you'll see alittle more.
And some of it is purely justcrazy, but some of it's not.
You can't discern what it isbecause you're not in the right
mind anyway.
You're in his territory.
And so you're literally in his,you're in the palm of his hand.
He can play with you however hewants and play the card.

(01:35:46):
I mean, you're in his house.
And so once you cross over intohis domain with drugs or
alcohol, whatever, whatever,once you cross that threshold
and that's the issue, nobodyknows when it begins.
I can't tell you.
And I did some pre-dark stuffand I can't tell you where that

(01:36:08):
line is.
It is so subtle.
That's why I stay away fromalcohol.
I mean, forget the peoplesaying, you know, it's hard.
I'm not walking near that line.
It's not going to happen.
To me, that is evidence ofsomething, of a spirit that has

(01:36:31):
made its way into your heartthat is trying to manifest
itself.
And that's not, I'm not saying abeliever is possessed, but they
can be under the influence.
And so that's why I'm not goingto, I'm not even going to give
that, I'm not going to give thedevil a foothold.
And so that's where it startedwas, I know for whatever reason

(01:36:53):
I'm, all over the place.
You're good, you're good.
I apologize.
I'm trying to.
You're

SPEAKER_04 (01:36:58):
good.

SPEAKER_01 (01:36:59):
And so it started with a lot of drugs, and that
became my vice.
It wasn't chasing girls.
It wasn't anything like that.
It became drugs.
And at 15 is when I starteddoing stuff a little harder,

(01:37:21):
like cocaine, XOs, other drugs.
prescription like VyvanseConcert or Ritalin Ad or all
that stuff and um startedselling it at 16 actually and it
things took a a shift at 15 and16 and I remember that is when

(01:37:48):
it happened that is when umpossession happened.
And it was at that point, youknow, people think every account
of possession is going to besimilar to the demoniac at
Gadara.
You know, ripping his clothesoff and running, cutting

(01:38:10):
himself.
No, that's not.
That's not what happens.
What it means to be possessed bya spirit means at any point in
time, if it wants to, If itwants to, it can take complete
and utter control.
You have surrendered enough ofyourself and enough of your will

(01:38:32):
to it that it is now, it is nolonger 50-50.
It has crept from 90-10, 80-20.
It is now 51-49.
And once it hits that point,it's possessioned.
because when I possesssomething, I don't always use

(01:38:52):
it.
It just means I've got it.
And that's how, you know, I hateto use that word, but it is, it
is a mimic.
I hate to use the word, youknow, possessed by Christ, but
you know, when you're reallytaken over by Christ, when he
can do whatever he wants throughyou through any time and you
won't buck, you won't say, youknow, that is when you

SPEAKER_02 (01:39:12):
know,

SPEAKER_01 (01:39:13):
when you, when you are, When you've surrendered
enough of yourself that he cansay, do this, or even if he
wanted to, take completecontrol, and you'd have milk
wall.
That is when you know you'rethere, you've crossed that
threshold.
And so I think I crossed thatthreshold.
And some people cross it quickerthan others.

(01:39:35):
Then again, I think the cup ofiniquity for some spirits is
filled quicker than others.
And so I think that theirmanifestation process is a
little bit shorter than some.
Like I believe suicide is themanifest spirit of depression.
And I believe when the cup isfull with, you know, whether it

(01:39:57):
be depression, I believe whenthe spirit fully manifests and
brings itself into the natural,it results in suicide.
A true spirit of depression.

SPEAKER_05 (01:40:08):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (01:40:08):
And maybe I'm wrong on that, but from my past,
that's what I've observed.
It's a true spirit of heaviness,something that torments your
psyche, and that typically it isaccompanied with a torment.
When that fully manifests, itwill.
Because I used to think thatsuicide was a separate spirit,
but I don't know that that's thecase.

(01:40:30):
I think there's a murderousspirit.
I've seen that on people before.

SPEAKER_05 (01:40:34):
So

SPEAKER_01 (01:40:35):
have I, yeah.
I never watched it happen.
I have friends who've watched ithappen.
There's a look.
I do believe there is amurderous spirit that can fall
on people.
And that might even be turnedinwardly, which would result in
suicide.
But I do believe the spirit thatis behind the 13 reasons why,

(01:40:57):
that is the spirit I'm talkingabout.
That was ushered into mygeneration.
That's the spirit.
And whether you want to call itdepression or suicide, I think
they're the same.
And I think this word suicide isjust the manifestation of
depression.
That's what it's trying to do.

(01:41:17):
It might not get there, butthat's its end goal.
It's that spirit, not talkingabout the depression as in, you
know, like you would probablysee in some clinical cases where
people are just overwhelmed.
I'm talking about the torment ofdepression, right?
where it takes a sudden darktwist, where it's like, oh, I

(01:41:39):
don't want to be here anymore.
That is the spirit I'm talkingabout.
And I think it's carefullyblended itself with so many
different things.
It's hard to pull out from allof its masks, but that's the
one.

SPEAKER_04 (01:41:51):
Well,

SPEAKER_01 (01:41:52):
I was going to ask you about that.
I'm talking about a lot here.
I'm really getting into

SPEAKER_04 (01:41:58):
a lot.
I love it.
I think it's critical for thedays that we're living in And I,
you know, I worked in, I'veshared this on a different
podcast, but I worked in suicideloss for a couple of years.
And one of the most disturbingcases to me was the death of a

(01:42:18):
45 year old female who attendedchurch every week.
And yet that in her drivewayand, you know, put a gun to her
chest.
And I, I, I, Part of the reasonI'm reaching for these questions
and this conversation is becauseI think there's a lot of spirits

(01:42:43):
at work that we haven'tidentified and we haven't named
and we have given place tothings because we have
normalized so many things.
And I have seen the murderousspirit come.
I've had several cases.
It hits boys.
I have such a heart for...

(01:43:03):
Boys and men, because I feellike the enemy targets them a
lot.
But I have seen that.
I have experienced that.
And I have had confession ofthat by clients.
And you actually mentioned itwhen you first invited that

(01:43:24):
spirit the very first night.
That night you had violentvisions.
And I think...
I think that, like you said, theenemy wants to kill us and he's
going to do it through amurderous spirit or through a
suicide spirit.
But ultimately, whatever is atwork is trying to gain us.
So I was going to ask you if youfelt that depression was an

(01:43:51):
oppression.
And I've always looked at thisas oppression being on the
outward trying to engulf us.
And possession was on theinward.
But hearing you speak, it soundslike there are levels of
manifestation that begin tointertwine a person's life and

(01:44:16):
thereby getting on the inside.
And so it grows into a spirit ofsuicide versus a separate spirit
coming on a person's As anoppressive spirit.

SPEAKER_01 (01:44:33):
Right.
There are three, and the factthat they all rhyme really helps
to remember.
There are three levels ofdemonic activity.
And when I say the first level,I'm betting something's going to
click for you.

(01:44:53):
In your practice, you'reprobably going to, oh, that
makes sense.
The third highest level ispossession.
The second level is oppression.
The first is obsession.
Any possession you find.

SPEAKER_04 (01:45:12):
That's just the seed, right?

SPEAKER_01 (01:45:13):
It began with an obsession somewhere.
The enemy found what enticedthem because if he can control
your appetite, that was hisfirst temptation with Jesus,
turn these stones to bread.
If I can control your fleshly,your carnal appetite, if I know

(01:45:34):
what makes you turn, if I knowwhat makes you tick, that's what
he'll build on.
And so if I was obsessed withthe love of a father, he can
say, I can flip that.
You can be obsessed with theabandonment of your father.

UNKNOWN (01:45:57):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:45:58):
It's always opposite.
It's always opposite.
I can build on that.
And he'll always say, I can usethat.
And it has started.
And time after time, no matterwhere I find, there is an
obsession somewhere in theirlife, whether it is obsessed

(01:46:18):
with a, it could be a virtuousthing, but discipline in the
wrong areas is oftentimes thekey to inviting a demonic
presence.
But it'll start with anobsession.
Either they are, and I hate tosay this in this manner because
I've been with plenty of peoplewho have had terrible things

(01:46:40):
happen to them, but some peoplebecome obsessed with the trauma
of their past.
And it becomes, and that mightnot be, and I mean, I feel for
them because there are somethings like my mom's been
through that I couldn't evenimagine.
But I do know at some point, wehave got to make a conscious

(01:47:06):
decision.
Either we were born one way orthe other.
God commanded Saul to be bornagain and take on his
characteristics.
And if he's a healer, he canstill heal.
No matter how deep the wound is,I've got to trust that he can
heal.
But the enemy knows...

(01:47:27):
okay, if they're obsessed withthis wound, with whatever was
inflicted on them, I've got tobuild on that.
And he'll start with anobsession.
And some of them are literallyjust carnal obsessions.
Some people are, you know,obsessed with other things.
Again, obsessed with image,self-image.

(01:47:47):
Some people are, but that iswhat, it very rarely leads to
possession, but it will most ofthe time lead to an oppression.

SPEAKER_04 (01:47:59):
Man, I find myself often, loneliness is something
that I see a lot, and I wonderif that is the spirit of
heaviness.
And that definitely was the casein my life until the Lord filled
that place.
But with someone that doesn'tknow the Lord and doesn't, maybe

(01:48:31):
even have a hunger for that, orit just seems obscure to say
there's a God-sized hole in you.
Do you think that there is aprayer or there is something
that can be said or done thatcan help them rethink the
loneliness?

(01:48:51):
Because loneliness and heavinessis so visceral.
Like, I don't know.
I sometimes, you know...
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:49:28):
You know, there's a psychologist I love, and he says
something that rocked me.
He said a lot of times we don'tsucceed in achieving new goals,
he said, because we don't aimlow enough.

(01:49:50):
He said we jump for if we wantto

SPEAKER_03 (01:49:53):
be,

SPEAKER_01 (01:49:54):
you know, fit.
We want...
We want to go get the membershiptoday.
We want to get all the clothestoday.
We want to get all thepre-workout.
We want to get all the proteinpowder.
And he said, instead of just goto the gym today.
Right.
Just do the first thing.
Just do the first thing.
And I've learned it's the sameway with God.

(01:50:17):
And the Lord spoke to me on thesame principle.
And he said, Ethan, this is thesame reason people miss my
activity is because they don'tlook low enough.

SPEAKER_03 (01:50:26):
They

SPEAKER_01 (01:50:27):
have their head up here and they say, you know, so
they really think theirloneliness is, you know, where's
God?
And they're looking like this.
When in reality, if they wentlike this and said, where's God?
They'd find him.
And I know that that's a simpleanalogy, but really, I would

(01:50:49):
always encourage people.
If it's with a true heart, praythis prayer, God, if you're
real.
I want to serve you if you'rereal.
Would you show yourself to me?
And I'll always say, but don'tbe shocked if he reveals himself
low.
Don't be shocked if it'ssomebody on the street who

(01:51:10):
passes by and says somethingsimple as Jesus loves you.
That's him.
Don't miss it.
Don't have your head in theclouds and think he's going to
write something in clouds foryou.
That's him.
He's weaving his way throughyour life in a low manner.
Because he's not in the firethat passes by the rocks.
He's not in the earthquake.
He's not in the great wind.

SPEAKER_03 (01:51:31):
He's

SPEAKER_01 (01:51:32):
in those small, you know, it might be, it's in the
craziest things.
Like somebody, hey, man, let mepay for your coffee today.
Or can I get you anything?
I just want to check up on you.
I wanted to say, man, just smallthings like that.
People say, oh, that's justpeople.
No, no.

SPEAKER_03 (01:51:51):
We've

SPEAKER_01 (01:51:51):
got to look low enough and realize that God is a
lot closer than we think.
Well, we just look up here.
We think he's going to write onthe walls like he did with the
emperor.
He might.
Hey, he might.
Ask him to.
I'm not going to say he's not.
But what I've learned is a lotof times, and I get excited

(01:52:13):
because I know it to be true.
And I love the fact that hereveals himself in that way.
It brings such an element ofwonder to who he is.
And I'm not necessarily angrythat he doesn't write on the
walls.
I'm kind of glad that he revealshimself in ways like my wife

(01:52:39):
just wrapping her arm around me,telling me, you know, I love
you.
That might be the love of mywife.
But there's an aspect of Godbeing revealed through that.
In small, you know, but it's ina way only He can do it.
And when people, you know, whenI'm probably explaining it in
such a way, people are like, oh,that's just normal everyday
things.
There's a frequency to when it,and if you're tapped into it,

(01:53:04):
it's the way it rings.
It's the way it sounds.
It's the way you're like, no, Iknow that voice all too well.
I know that method ofcommunication.
I know that's not an accident.
That's not, yeah, it's not just,you know, somebody one time we
took a really hard, you know,financial hit and all of a

(01:53:27):
sudden we got a check in themail and somebody said, I was
just thinking of you.
You know, you weren't justthinking of me.
God was thinking of me.
And people would say, oh no, youjust got lucky.
I didn't get lucky.
In the kingdom, you don't getlucky.
God has his eyes on you.
And so that's what I would sayto somebody who's struggling

(01:53:48):
with loneliness.
Where's God?
Have you tried looking?
And maybe they have.
But I would mostly start, haveyou tried looking low enough?
Because he might just revealhimself in a way that kind of
makes you turn your head.
Like, that can't be him.
Not the God of the universe.
That can't be him.

SPEAKER_04 (01:54:10):
Yeah, that's so good.
That was a long answer, but Ihope that's...
No, it's so good.
Years ago when I firstrededicated my life, I was so
used to the Lord talking to me,and then He went silent, and I
was kind of really anxious aboutit.
And my mentor at the time toldme, if you look for God's hand,

(01:54:32):
every day you will see it.
And so I began every day to justlook, and I would see a little
bird...
Right when I looked up, I'd lookat my clock and the numbers
would line up.
And so I was very comforted bythat, just paying attention to
the little things that God wasjust allowing me to see at the

(01:54:55):
perfect time.
I'm going to ask you for onemore story, and I could probably
talk to you for eight morehours.
But you...
You talked about in one of yourtestimonies the story of the men
in the hospital.
So at some point you overdose,and I guess we're close to

(01:55:19):
death.
Do you want to tell that story?
And before you start, I'll tellyou my question so I don't have
to

SPEAKER_03 (01:55:26):
interrupt.

SPEAKER_04 (01:55:26):
The men, I know that you believe them to be demonic
and angelic.
Did you see them in physicalform or were they spiritual but
you were able to see in thespiritual?

SPEAKER_01 (01:55:46):
So I saw them in physical form.
Physical form.
And it wasn't just me.
My mother saw them as well.
My stepdad saw them.
I believe one of my brothers wasthere.
I believe he saw them as well.
This was an encounter that notjust...

(01:56:07):
But I've learned when you haveencounters like that, you don't
realize it until after the fact.
Like, wait a minute, somethingwas off.
Did you notice he had a name tagbut didn't have a name on it?
Yeah, did you notice they werenever in there with the nurses?
Yeah, did you notice they werejust weird?
And you're like, wait a second,wait a second.

(01:56:30):
And, you know, did you realizehe said what he said and he did
what he did?
You know, and there was a fewdetails I didn't even, you know,
share on the other podcast.
They were just of the...
So I'll tell the

SPEAKER_04 (01:56:43):
story.

SPEAKER_01 (01:56:45):
Yeah, so I overdosed at 17.
On what?

SPEAKER_04 (01:56:49):
Was

SPEAKER_01 (01:56:51):
it fentanyl?
No, it was on cocaine andecstasy.
And I...
They pulled me out of a ditch,and God forbid, there is
actually a video of me wrestlingthe cops on the OD.
And my old friends had it, andthey posted it everywhere, and

(01:57:14):
they were saying, look, he'swrestling 10, 15 cops.
So there is video evidence ofthis out there somewhere, and
I'm glad it has not gone viral.
But after...
after that they put me into a Idon't even know what it's called

(01:57:38):
but they strapped me down tolike a hospital ambulance but
they rolled me up and put me inthe back of the ambulance and
drove me to the hospital andwhen I get there you know they
were feeding me charcoal andtrying to pump my stomach and
get me to vomit all of the drugsand things like that but here

(01:58:02):
was what i didn't preface peoplewere saying you know people want
some of the comments they didn'tunderstand they were like oh you
know y'all are hearing this guytalking about he saw angels and
devils and he was high out ofhis mind that uh that that was
the whole point was that mystomach was pumped and I wasn't

(01:58:25):
anymore.
And the doctors couldn't findout why I was not responsive.
That's the part of the storythat makes it so, I want to say
powerful, but strange is that Iwas slipping in and out of
consciousness and the doctorshad no idea why they were
saying.
Because you had no more drugs.

(01:58:46):
I had no more drugs in mysystem.
Yeah, it wasn't

SPEAKER_04 (01:58:47):
the drugs that was causing you to be in and out

SPEAKER_01 (01:58:51):
of consciousness.
And cocaine and ecstasy, they'renot hallucinogenics.
They're not psychedelics.
They don't make you hallucinate.
And so there's that.
So people who don't know aboutthe drug world, that's a speed
drug.
You don't see things on that.

(01:59:11):
It's not one of those drugs.
That line's not crossed yet.
But for whatever reason, like Iwas slipping in and out of
consciousness.
So it wasn't like I was trippingout on acid C and stuff.
No, this was I was overdosed.
They thought I was going to die.
And not only that, but thosetypes of drugs wear off very

(01:59:35):
quickly.
So it wasn't– and I say all thatto say it wasn't a matter of
like– A physical issue.
Right.
Like I was on no psychedelics.
And not only that, I mean, if wehad the reports, I'd show them.
But the doctors, they completelycleared my system.

(01:59:59):
That's why they were like, wedon't know what's going on.
He's going in and out ofconsciousness.
And the drugs are out of hishead.
We don't know what to tell you.
We've ran tests.
We don't know what's going on.
So they get you to

SPEAKER_04 (02:00:14):
the hospital.
They pump your stomach.
Everyone's thinking, okay,you're out of the danger zone.
But you slipped intounconsciousness.
And at that point, they begin tothink that you were going to
die.
And they

SPEAKER_01 (02:00:29):
didn't know why.
They thought I was going to dieon the way there, actually.
And while I was on the waythere, they thought I was going
to die.
And when they pumped my stomachand soul, they were more
confused.
Like, my vitals were fine fromwhat I understand.

(02:00:50):
Then again, I was in, you know,my mom will have a better
recount of all of this.
From what I understand, myvitals were fine.
They were more confused.
Like, what is, like, what'sgoing, like, why is he, why is
he just randomly passing, like,what?
what what's going like he'sphasing in and out going
unconscious like they didn'tknow what was going on they were

(02:01:12):
saying this shouldn't behappening like they I don't know
and so I think they were moreconfused and so they leave the
room and I do remember the wholeplace felt I've never felt
anything like it it was justweird felt like a dungeon and um

(02:01:36):
The door opens up and thesecurity guard walks in.
I remember as a Chinese guy andhe comes in and he's looking
around and he just had this grinon his face and he's looking
around.
And one of the details I didn'tshare and my mom doesn't think

(02:01:57):
it's as funny as I do, but hepicked up her water cup and
started drinking out of it.
And he's like running into stufflike he didn't know how to
human.
He drank out of her water.
And so she was like, what iswrong?
But it's a security guard.
So what are you going to say tohim?
That's so aggressive.

SPEAKER_04 (02:02:17):
That's so overt for him to

SPEAKER_01 (02:02:19):
grab her cup.
He can throw you out.
Yeah, like he can throw you out.
And it's

SPEAKER_04 (02:02:26):
a symbol of authority.

SPEAKER_01 (02:02:27):
Yeah, it is.
From the demonic.
From the demonic.
Yeah.
And my mom noticed every time.
She could never catch him.
He'd come by my bedside.
And that's when, you know, beep,beep, beep, beep, beep, beep,
beep.
My heart rate would go up.
And I'd start, she said, I'dstart spazzing out in the bed.

(02:02:48):
The doctors or the nurses wouldhave to.
And he'd just walk out when Idid that because she'd run over
to the bed and he'd walk out.
And soon the nurses would comein.
And they'd come and, you know,put me back down and make sure I
was okay.
And he'd come back in again.
Same thing.
That was probably the confusion.
You know, they were like, why ishe freaking out?

(02:03:09):
Like, what's going on here?
And my mom, you know, she didn'tput two and two together.
Like, hey, there's some guywalking in.
I don't know what he's doing.
But it happened a few times.
And then she said she was, Idon't remember if she was
talking to my stepdad, but shelooked over and she said he was

(02:03:30):
leaned over the bed and hiswhole face was contorted.
And she stands there.
This is a security guard, so youknow it had to be the spirit of
the Lord on her.
She pointed at him and yelled,you get out right now.
Get out of this room.
And he turned and looked at her,just grinning, and walked out of

(02:03:52):
the room.
And what we didn't see, what Ididn't see, was that there was a
same uniform, a Middle Easternman, And he had, my mom said he
had, well, he came from behindthe door, but my mom said she
had saw him.
He was pacing outside.
And he looked at her and said,Mama, don't stop praying.

(02:04:19):
You and I both know that's notdrugs.
That's devils.

SPEAKER_05 (02:04:24):
Wow.

SPEAKER_01 (02:04:24):
I got

SPEAKER_05 (02:04:26):
goosebumps.

SPEAKER_01 (02:04:27):
The Chinese man actually tried to, when they
finally discharged me, heactually tried to take me back
to my car.
Or not my car.
I wasn't driving.
They tried to take me back to mymom's car.
And that guy came out of nowhereagain and said, I don't think

(02:04:50):
so.
I'll take him from here.
And we didn't think anything ofit.
until after and we were likewait a second like that that
wasn't there was something upthere and it's it's to this day

(02:05:11):
you know now i know that it wasthe angelic and the demonic both
at work and it's you know it'sit's just it's crazy to to have
that memory, you know, Iremember both of their faces.
Like it wasn't, it wasn't likesomething I had a vision or I
had a dream and I'm notdiscrediting those things, but

(02:05:32):
it's like the fact that I, I sawit, looked at it, you know, it
is, it's, it's crazy.

SPEAKER_04 (02:05:39):
Was that the start of your deliverance?
It was.
Do you think you, did you make adecision in that hospital bed to
follow the Lord that gave that?
The angel, we'll call it anangel, permission to take you
the rest of the way.

SPEAKER_01 (02:05:55):
So that was actually, believe it or not,
that was a relapse a week afterI was delivered.
And that ended up happening.
And so, but from that point on,from that overdose on, I kept my
head on straight.

(02:06:15):
You know, I...
I really, really got into thisthing.
But it was a week before that,that, you know, the whole nine
yards of, you know, deliverancefrom possession happened, you
know, with the ministry teambeing called over.
And I didn't get into that storyon the other podcast.

(02:06:38):
There is a million things inthat that happened.
You know, we watched it.
We, they watched it.
It happened.
Everybody who wasn't right, whowasn't living right.
And that's another thing.
It's beyond human ability.
I don't know those things.
It called all of their sin outand said, you can't cast me out.
Don't even try.
Don't even try.

(02:06:59):
Don't lay your hand on me.
And it looked at one and laughedand said, are you done?
You and I both know you have nopower here.
I saw you taking shots with yourfriends from the world at that
party last week.
I was there.
I saw you.
I didn't know I was there, but Isaw you.
And you can't cast me outbecause you're for it with me
when no one's watching.
I mean, like real deal, youknow, stuff that nobody, I

(02:07:21):
didn't know.
You know, so there's a whole,there's a whole nother story.
of things in there that happenedthat are forever etched into my
memory.
And that's just a token ofremembrance.

SPEAKER_04 (02:07:39):
I definitely would love to have you back to talk
about that because I thinkthat's another issue that
there's a lot right now ofdeliverance ministry on YouTube.
Yeah, yeah.
I think it can be simple, and Ithink it can be complex, both.

(02:08:01):
It depends on the person.
But really quick, you must havereached a point where you were
ready to become delivered.
You were ready to seek the Lord.

SPEAKER_01 (02:08:16):
Yeah.
You know, I'm not sure where Iland on that.
even there will come a pointwhere God won't even override
free will.
And sometimes he will, you know,sometimes he will.

(02:08:37):
And I do believe truedeliverance requires that vessel
to be fully surrendered.
I'll be honest.
I, and people might shoot mefull of holes for this.
If I sense deliverance, thatsomebody is unrepentant and they

(02:08:58):
don't want to be delivered, Icould force the devils out.
I could cast them out.
But I probably won't because theBible says that when that
happens, when an unclean spirithas gone out of a man, it goes
through dry places, seekingrest, finding none.

SPEAKER_02 (02:09:13):
And

SPEAKER_01 (02:09:14):
it'll come back to where it was cast out of.
And if it finds it already, youknow, if it finds its home just
like the way it left ready forit, it'll find

SPEAKER_03 (02:09:22):
that

SPEAKER_01 (02:09:24):
seven more sinister.
That's a whole nother subject.
People think all devils are thesame.
No, there's a hierarchy.
He said, I will find.
There's a hierarchy.
He said, I'll find seven spiritsthat are more sinister than me.
They're nastier.
They're dirtier.
They're deadlier.
They're worse than I am.
And the Bible says in thecondition of the man is worse

(02:09:45):
than it was in the former.
And so the person has to beready.
Sure, we have the authority.
I can cast it out.
No problem.
It'll take about two seconds.
But if they're not ready, and ifthat's another thing, they've
got to be ready to be filled.

SPEAKER_05 (02:10:02):
With the Holy Ghost, right.

SPEAKER_01 (02:10:03):
With the Holy Ghost.

SPEAKER_05 (02:10:04):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (02:10:05):
Because if there's a vacant house, I could cast it
out.
If they're not filled with theHoly Ghost that night or that
day...
It's going to be bad becausethat spirit will come back.
It will.
The Bible says it will comeback.
It's going to come back to itshome because that was its home

(02:10:26):
or its house.
It was there for a little bit.
It lodged.
And if so, anyways, but yeah,there came a point I was ready
and that is what allowed theforfeiture of that spirit.
And God filled me with the HolyGhost and rest is history.

SPEAKER_04 (02:10:44):
Praise the Lord.
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (02:10:46):
So

SPEAKER_04 (02:10:47):
what do you think the church, where do you think
the opportunities for the churchto grow in are in the depth of
the spirit and in helping peopleget free in a greater capacity?

(02:11:07):
Where do you think theopportunities are for the church
body?
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (02:11:13):
Yeah.
You know, this is, This is justwhat I've seen in my tenure.
And a lot of people aren't goingto like this, but that's fine by
me.
The greatest asset is...
It's like I want to shake somepeople and say, just live right.

(02:11:37):
It might not be as visceralas...
My story as it looking at thatguy saying, you can't cast me
out, you were taking shots.
But if somebody comes up to thealtar with some oppressions and
you lay hands on them andnothing happens, it might not

(02:12:00):
have said it out loud.
There was a statement made thatyou didn't have the authority to
take care of it for whateverthat reason is.
And the fact that people areunbothered by that The fact that
people are unbothered by that isprobably what they need to take

(02:12:21):
some introspection on.
Like, why?
Man, that person came up bound,and when I laid hands on him,
nothing happened.
Well, the Bible says that it'ssupposed to.

SPEAKER_04 (02:12:29):
And I think the assumption is that if we have
the name of Jesus and we havethe Holy Ghost, that we have the
authority, and if nothing ishappening...
It's not because I don't haveauthority.
It's because they're unwilling.
And so, yeah, I feel

SPEAKER_01 (02:12:52):
you.
I've learned that that is veryrarely the case.
It's just what I've learned.
I've learned that that is veryrarely the case because I've
learned my Holy Ghost willoverride any demonic activity.
And if it's not, then I don'thave the Holy Ghost like I think
I've got.
I don't have the Holy Ghost theBible says.

UNKNOWN (02:13:12):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (02:13:13):
If some spirit has the ability to override my
influence when I laid my hand onsomebody's head and there is not
an emotional shift, a mentalshift, there's not a shift that
takes place.
If I don't exercise authorityover that and I don't assert
myself in a dominant positionspiritually over whatever
they're going through,something's wrong.

(02:13:35):
Because the Bible says that he'sthe firstborn of all creation.
Everything's underneath hisfeet.
And so if there is a powerimbalance and we're below the
adversary, that's what's goingto happen is we're going to lay
hands and nothing's going tohappen.
Now, there are, of course, thereare caveats to this subject.

SPEAKER_02 (02:13:55):
lack

SPEAKER_01 (02:13:56):
of faith.
Some people are unwilling.
I'm not saying that's never thecase.
But I've learned most of thetime the case is there is some
pattern of either unrepentantsin or we've gotten out of the
prayer closet.
We don't fast like we should.
We don't read like we should.
We're not in our spiritualdisciplines like we should be.
And so we forfeit the power thatreally does belong to us.

(02:14:17):
And the fact that we'recomfortable, we're just okay
with it.
And that's what some people areAnd it's easier for them to just
write it off and have somecognitive dissonance like, oh,
it's just their fault.
Surely not me.
No, I'm perfect.
You know what I'm saying?
Maybe I'm wrong on that.
That's just what I've seen.

SPEAKER_04 (02:14:38):
You've probably seen much more than I've seen.
And I was just curious, do youfeel that your ministry has...
Do you carry a particular burdenin your ministry?
I assume for the lost, that'sjust part of the evangelistic

(02:14:58):
territory.
But do you feel like yourministry has a particular
message, a particular burdenthat it carries overall?
Do you feel like you're for theminister to the saints for
growth?
That's

SPEAKER_01 (02:15:16):
really...
Yeah, yeah, strangely enough, Ido have a burden for the people
of God for whatever reason.
And God, I wrote it down.
I can pull it up.
It is the oldest word God ever,the first word God ever spoke to

(02:15:39):
me.
And it was out of Exodus 1.
And it is way deep into my nose.
I can't even find it, but it isthe first thing I ever wrote
down.
And God spoke to me and he says,come now and I will send thee

(02:16:04):
unto Pharaoh to deliver mypeople out of Egypt.
And I remember that was thefirst time God ever spoke to me.
And I think my mission is he hasallowed me to see the Pharaoh in
our age and he's allowed me toconfront him head on.

(02:16:27):
And for whatever reason, God issaying, I need, Ethan, I need
you to deliver my people fromunderneath Pharaoh's oppression.
And that has been for whateverreason, you know, I, I, I
thought, you know, I'd have areal burden for the addicts and
people who were, you know,oppressed by the demonic.

(02:16:49):
Thank you.
Whatever reason, like me, forwhatever reason, I have this,
the DNA of my ministry iscommitment.
It is commitment.
The people of God, you've got toget this thing right.
You've got to, we've got to getthis thing right.
Because if the body is nothealthy, we can't properly

(02:17:12):
harvest.
If we don't have, we can't pullpeople into a dysfunctional
body.
We've got to

SPEAKER_04 (02:17:18):
have this

SPEAKER_01 (02:17:19):
thing down pat.

SPEAKER_04 (02:17:20):
We're not keeping

SPEAKER_01 (02:17:21):
them functional.
Right.
They're coming in,

SPEAKER_04 (02:17:24):
but we're losing them.
We're

SPEAKER_01 (02:17:26):
losing them.
We've got to pull them into ahealthy environment that is
functional, that's powerful,that's anointed, that's
God-driven and purpose-drivenand kingdom-minded.
But there are pharaohs in thisculture that have risen up and
have oppressed the people of Godand they don't even realize it.

(02:17:46):
But I think it has takensomebody with my background
where I can see the hand of theenemy behind the scenes and I'm
like, wait a minute.
I've seen this before.
I know this spirit.
So what do you think it is?
And they're deceived by it,

SPEAKER_04 (02:18:03):
though.

SPEAKER_01 (02:18:04):
They're deceived

SPEAKER_04 (02:18:06):
by it.
The pharaohs don't realizethey're acting in that role.

SPEAKER_01 (02:18:11):
They have no idea.
They have no idea.
But there will come a point, andthis is one of my favorite
passages in the Bible, whereMoses began to multiply
miracles.
And Pharaoh looked and said,yeah, well, my magicians can do
the same thing.
And it reached a point, Ibelieve it was the fourth

(02:18:34):
plague.
It was the plague of lice, andthat was either the fourth or
fifth, where the magicians threwtheir hands up and says, hey,
boss, we can do some things.
They said, this is the finger ofGod.
And I think...
We've been satisfied with littlemagicians who can do so much.

(02:18:57):
But if we want the things wereally want, we're going to have
to say, we're going to have toleave Pharaoh and his magicians
and say, that's not going to cutit anymore.
But if we want to see the nextlevel of God's power, there's
going to have to be a changesomewhere.
Because those magicians can onlydo so much.

(02:19:18):
Sure, they could bring frogs up.
They could turn water intoblood.
They could do a lot of thingsthat are visually appealing.

SPEAKER_05 (02:19:28):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (02:19:28):
But it comes a point where there's a forfeit.
Like, hey, I can only do somuch, but that's going to take
another level.
And I think that's where thechurch has reached is we've been
entertained by, and I hate tocall them magicians, but that's
what they are.
We've been entertained bymagicians who have bowed to
Pharaoh and And they're saying,hey, Pharaoh's more important
than God.

(02:19:49):
And I know if I'm with Pharaoh,I've got like a third or fourth
of the power.
I might not have all 100%, butI've got a little bit of it.
And I'm cool with that.
I'm cool with turning water toblood.
I'm cool with every now andthen.
But I think we've reached apoint where if we want to really
see the deliverance, we want tosee the harvest, we want to see

(02:20:11):
we are in that age where now Godis saying, okay, but this is
what my people are going tostart doing.
And I think that's when theworld is going to realize, whoa,
they're going to realize who'swith God and who's not.
Because it's like, wait, thepeople of God should be doing
these things.
They should be acting this way.
They should be walking in thisdemonstration.

(02:20:34):
But I think, because I think nowthere was an imbalance, but I
think that the people of God arecatching up.
And I think it's reaching thattipping point.

SPEAKER_05 (02:20:45):
It was like here.
I think so.
But

SPEAKER_01 (02:20:48):
I think it's even now.
It's even.
I might even say overall we'reclimbing above the magicians
now, and they're starting to seethings.
I could go on and on aboutstories of people I know that
people wouldn't even believethem.

(02:21:09):
I know a guy who God spoke tohim in the middle of service,
and he looked at that guy andsaid, God just spoke to me.
And he said, if you'll give thatmoney that's in that envelope in
your pocket, he'll bless you.
And the guy looks around and hesaid, oh, you don't believe me.
He said, you think I'm justguessing.
He said, it is not just anenvelope.

(02:21:30):
It is your tax return that youhaven't even opened yet.
And since you haven't opened ityet, I'm going to prove to you
that this is the hand of God.
I'm going to tell you how muchit is to the cent.
And the guy ended up giving itand getting He got a raise.
It was a whole story.
But things like that that areundeniable, that are bona fide,

(02:21:51):
gifts of the Spirit, miraclesthat cannot be replicated, that
take true commitment.
I think we're reaching a pointwhere the world's going to start
to see that, realize it, noticeit, and make a decision.

SPEAKER_04 (02:22:02):
Yeah.
Well, I'm going to definitelyhave you on again if you're
willing.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
I always end with two questions.
And that is, sorry, I love whatyou just said.
And I want to just acknowledgethat because I jumped right into

(02:22:23):
what my final question was.
But yeah, I'm so hopeful.
I feel like there is a level ofexpectancy, like we are crossing
over.
Something in the spirit that isreally changing.
And I know there is a churchhere in Visalia where we've been
really pushing in that.
I think there's a lot of hungrypeople that just want more of

(02:22:47):
the Lord.
Yeah,

SPEAKER_01 (02:22:49):
absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 (02:22:51):
So final questions.
What would you say to thebackslider who's still out there
who might be facing the oceanthey're afraid to cross or...
get tripped up on all of thestandards.
There's a lot of that becausethey don't understand some of
the things you express, butthat's where they're living.

(02:23:13):
It's a reality of where they'reat.
What would you say to thebackslider that's out there?
I

SPEAKER_01 (02:23:20):
would say to the backslider, very simple, come
home.
You know you're not home.
You might be at a house, but youknow it's not home.
There's only a certain feelinghome can produce.
You just come home.
And I know it's not easy.
It's never easy.

(02:23:42):
But I look at it like when Godtold me to walk across that, you
know, I couldn't stay where Iwas.
I knew that.
So it was either I had to make adecision regardless.
Why not make the right one?
I could either make a decisionto stay where I am Or I could

(02:24:03):
make another decision and justchoose to go home.
And either way, I'm going to endup making the decision.
So I decide I'm going to makethe right one.
And, you know, it might, itmight, I've learned God will
give, he gives grace.
And what we think is impossible.
I've, I mean, like I know it'salready been, over two hours,

(02:24:27):
but I could go on and on aboutstories of people who thought
taking that first step wasimpossible, but the grace of God
made it to where they could makeit home safe and sound way, way
healthier and better than theyever thought they could make it
home.
Because God's got a way of doingstuff like that.

(02:24:48):
Just come on home.

SPEAKER_04 (02:24:51):
And to the parent who has a child or spouse that's
backslidden, what would you sayto them?

SPEAKER_01 (02:24:56):
Yeah.
I'd tell them the same thing,almost the same thing the angel
told my mama.
Don't stop praying.
Don't stop praying.
It might not be devils.
It might be devils.
I think regardless, thecommandment is still the same.

(02:25:18):
Mama, don't stop praying.

UNKNOWN (02:25:20):
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 (02:25:21):
And because that angel, what was funny is he
singled out that parent, hesingled out my mother.
Had it been my fault, I think hewould have singled out my
father.
But he singled out that parentalfigure.
So if it's a mother or if it's afather, don't stop praying.
If even that angel in heavenknows the prayers of a parent

(02:25:42):
matter, hell knows too.
It does something in the spirit.
It pushes something back or itpulls something down.
There's something happening whena mama or a daddy starts to pray
over their lost loved one.
I'm telling you, there'ssomething that happens.
There's a grace that starts toflow.

(02:26:02):
There's angels that start tomove.
God starts to move.
And so I just say, mama, daddy,don't stop praying.
It might look ineffective, butdon't stop praying.

UNKNOWN (02:26:14):
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 (02:26:15):
Well, thank you so much.
Thank you so much.
I mean, this conversationblessed me tremendously.
And I know it's going to blessall who listen.
And I'm going to pray for you.
And I hope that you can comehere at some point.
I know we definitely need theministry.

(02:26:36):
I think what you understand,what you've experienced is
uncommon at large times.
I think, to the body and maybejust a different level.
I don't know.
But I'm really, really glad for,I'm grateful for the work that
God has done in you.

(02:26:56):
And I'm excited to see how yourfuture unfolds.
You're so young, yet you have awhole future ahead of you.
And I just really honor you andthank you so much for being with
me.
I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 (02:27:11):
Oh, thank you so much.
It is an honor to be here in theshow.
I know it did take some turns.
I have been diagnosed with ADD,if you can tell.
And so I am all over the place.
That's just the way my brainworks.
So I hope that was okay.

(02:27:32):
I hope I didn't get off topic,but it's such an honor to share
with you and to be here.
And yeah, I'd love to...
to do a second one

SPEAKER_04 (02:27:44):
yes I'm going to follow up because I want to nail
down absolutely some veryspecific topics and I think it
flowed well I think you saideverything that I needed to hear
and I know our audience neededto hear and you gave enough of
your history for us to knowwhere you came from without all

(02:28:05):
of the down and dirty details sothank you it was beautiful and I
I'm very happy to know you.
I'll be in touch for sure.
God

SPEAKER_01 (02:28:15):
bless you.
And bless you, sister.
Bless you.

SPEAKER_00 (02:28:17):
We are so glad you joined us.
If you have a story ofredemption or have worn the
label of a backslider, we wouldlove to hear from you.
If you'd like to support ourministry, your donation will be
tax deductible.
Visit our website atkathychastain.com.
We hope you will tune in for ournext episode.

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