God’s Healing Power- TRB #15 Victor Molano

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Redeemed Backslider with your
host, kathy Chastain.
Christian-based psychotherapistand Redeemed Backslider.
This podcast is dedicated tothose who have wandered but are
ready to return to thelife-changing power of grace and
the freedom found in Jesus.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Hi, welcome to the Redeemed Backslider.
I'm your host, Kathy Chastain.
I'm a Christian-basedpsychotherapist and I'm a
Redeemed Backslider.
Today in the studio with me isVictor Milano, Victor, welcome.

Speaker 3 (00:37):
Thank you Appreciate it.
Glad to be here.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
Yeah, so Victor goes to a church in a nearby town and
I know some of his family, butI don't know anything about your
story.
I don't even know if you knowhow I got your name.

Speaker 3 (00:53):
No, I don't actually.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
So my pastor, pastor Kane, told me one day you have
to interview Victor Milano.
He's got a wonderful testimony.
And so he said but reach out toPastor Grogan first and ask.
And so I did.
I reached out to Tiffany Groganand asked if it was okay that I
do your testimony.

(01:16):
I guess she checked with you,but anyway.
So I was so glad for thatrecommendation.

Speaker 3 (01:21):
Yeah, that makes sense now.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
Yeah, I'm looking forward to hearing you know what
God has done in your life and alittle bit about your history.
So where would you like tobegin?

Speaker 3 (01:33):
We can begin well.
I mean, I'm 53, so it could goway back and that would probably
take a long time.
But we can start from.

Speaker 2 (01:42):
You were a backslider .
I mean, you're a backslider, sosomewhere along the line you
were raised in church.

Speaker 3 (01:47):
About five, five years old.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
Okay, yeah.
Okay, I can start there in anutshell, then move forward
quickly, okay yeah, I'd love tohear what life was like for you
as a kid, until that fateful daywhen we all seemed to wander.

Speaker 3 (02:03):
Sure, absolutely so.
Actually, I love to tell abouthow I believe that God finds us.
He's the one that calls us, andI was five years old and I
remember we had just moved froma small town called Corcoran and
we moved to Tulare and I havefour siblings that are older

(02:24):
than me all sisters and we livedon West Street in Tulare and an
apostolic preacher came andknocked on our door and he was
in a Sunday school those littleyellow Abbey buses, but they had
painted it blue and asked myparents if they could pick us up
for church.
The kids, all of us kids.
We didn't go to church at thetime.

(02:45):
I had been baptized Catholic,but we weren't practicing.
Catholics.
We just didn't know the Lord.
Right.
So we started attending Sundayschool and my parents, of course
, thought absolutely take allfive of them.

Speaker 2 (03:00):
Right, I get a free day off, and so we started going
.

Speaker 3 (03:03):
My oldest sister that's about six years older
than me.
She quickly received the HolyGhost from a Sunday school
started going to church and theLord began to move quickly into
our lives and eventually my momstarted going.
We transferred over to BrotherAbbott's church on 8th Street in

(03:25):
Tulare.
They had a larger youth group.
They were English speaking andwe were more English speaking.
So it made sense and God beganto move and he began to baptize
us and we all received the giftof the Holy Ghost and we were
saved, without excluding myfather.

(03:45):
My father had not come tochurch at that time but in time
God brought him.

Speaker 2 (03:51):
So I want to give a little plug, because what you
said is really dear to my heart.
That's the children, but a lotof.
I don't know how many actually,I shouldn't generalize, but I
know the Sunday school ministrybus ministry used to pick up a
lot of children, even with localchurches around I don't know

(04:22):
how many churches have a busministry and door-to-door
knocking.
That five children came tochurch.
You guys all got filled withthe Holy Ghost and then now your
whole family, as far as I know,has been serving the Lord.

Speaker 3 (04:37):
We are definitely a product of Sunday school, not
just me and my four siblings,but my parents now and now our
children and what an incredibletestimony to to that, absolutely
wow um.
So from there, uh, you know, I Ibegin to understand who god was

(04:58):
with a.
Uh, we had a revival church.
Until I always had revivals, um, brothers and sister, I were
always having revivalists comethrough and their friends that
were coming through andpreaching large youth group.
I have to plug in that myparents, my mom especially,
decided to put us in theChristian school, which was

(05:21):
tough.
We were, we come from veryhumble beginnings and to put
five people, young people, intoa Christian school was there was
a price tag for it, but shemade a way, whether it was
through selling candy apples orbanana nut bread or whatever.
So I wanted to plug that inbecause we'll get to it later,

(05:44):
but hindsight that in becausewe'll get to it later, but
hindsight that one of thecurriculums in christian school
is to learn the word of god andyou have all your subjects, but
we will learn sometimes chaptersat a time yeah and um knowing
the word is critical it's socrucial.
Yeah, that word is a lamp untomy feet and a light into my path

(06:05):
, and when you study scripture,um, it will remain with you
forever.
And I'm very grateful to theword of god because he is the
word, and I truly believe thathad I not had the word, um, I
may not have ever routed back asa backslider.

Speaker 2 (06:29):
Wow, that's powerful just in and of itself.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (06:34):
Very powerful.
So we went.
I think I went my fifth, sixth,seventh and part of my eighth
grade year to Christian school.
That's four years.
I remember being accelerated.
I was always in competitionwith one of the seniors in the
high school that would challengeme with having more scriptures
memorized.

(06:54):
But around eighth grade myparents pulled us back out and
we went into the public schoolsystem.
I think I was still fairlyinnocent and naive at that point
.
But when I entered a highschool and I hung out with
church kids right youth group,um and uh, we were.

(07:17):
Uh, I would just say that myparents were very lenient with
me as a young man.
I was the only son.
They were more strict with mysisters but pretty lenient with
me.
I kind of could go where Iwanted to go and hang out with
who I wanted to hang out with,but really I was always hanging
out with church kids.

Speaker 2 (07:39):
I'm hearing that more frequently.
It's the church kids that pullus out.

Speaker 3 (07:44):
I mean it could have church kids that pull us out.
I mean it could have been methat pulled them out.
I wasn't the innocent one, andeven during that period of time
I learned I met people.
We would go to conventionsevery year.
We would go to junior camps andthen senior camps every year.
So our parents and our pastorsand those that mentored us were

(08:07):
always instilling, instillinginstilling in us.
But sometimes we take forgranted what's right in front of
us.
And you know, there were a lotof times that I've always felt
like I had a calling, that I wasclose to God, but there was
always that pull of the worldand to try things.

(08:31):
I've always had that in theback of my mind.
Well, what about this?
Or what if I didn't go tochurch?
Or what would my life be like?

Speaker 2 (08:41):
And do you think that that had to do with the rules,
the things that we you knowgrowing up in church, the things
that we're not allowed to do?
Or do you think that that hadto do with just life
difficulties of figuring out whoyou are and trying to fit in,
and you know any kind of hurtsor things.

(09:02):
I know that loneliness is athing for kids and you know any
kind of hurts or or things.
I know that loneliness is athing for kids and you know
trying to find your place.
If you don't really have aplace, there's lots of reasons.
What do you?
What do you think it was?
Can you have you thought aboutthat at all?

Speaker 3 (09:20):
Absolutely.
I think it could be a littlebit of all of it in totality.
You know, when you're a teenanyways, you're trying to find
your identity, who you are, andthen you have the structure of
the church, the apostolicPentecostal church in particular
is what.
I was raised in and you know mymom was of the nature that it's

(09:41):
Friday night and you have youthnight, so you're going to church
, right, and I thank God forthat now, so do I but at the
time it was like but all myfriends are going to the
football game or or they'regoing to go do this, so we would
go to youth group and and thenwe leave and we'd go sin, and

(10:09):
you know, hindsight were again.
We were just taking for grantedwhat was there for us?
Um thank god for the hedge ofprotection that we had.
Um from people that prayed overus and covered us um, because
not everybody is uh haseverybody has that hedge over
them.
And I thank God that I had apraying mother and still today

(10:30):
is a praying mother that shewould war in the Spirit
reluctantly and withouthesitation.
We knew when we get up in themorning.
Many times we could hear my momspeaking in tongues and warring
in the Spirit and sometimes Ithought thought how radical.
Does it really?
Is it necessary?

(10:50):
yeah, it has to be that much,that much yeah right, um, but um
, you mentioned something about,you know, adolescence and um,
insecurities, absolutely.
You know.
I remember being a young manand not always having the
leadership in my life as far asa male figure in my life to

(11:14):
speak into my life.
My pastor at the time was agreat man.
He was a great man, but myfather and I I have a great
father we weren't always thatclose and in my teen years my
dad was not saved and I'm nothere to tell his story, but he
had an addiction.

(11:36):
And somewhere around my senioryear.
The Lord saved him and gave hima radical move of the Holy
Ghost and what he thought hewould never do.
He did.
And that was give his life tothe Lord and he's got an amazing
testimony Never gone through a12-step program but God healing
him from the inside out,physically as well, and so

(12:02):
there's so many things thrown atyou at that age when you're
that young.
You have church, you have theworld, you have public school
system, you have drinking,partying, you have all.
And then you have seasons ofyouth camp and seasons of
convention, where you pullyourself back in and you're
there for a week.

(12:23):
So you're going to get back onfire yourself back in and you're
there for a week, so you knowyou're you're going to get back
on fire, um, and so it's veryimportant that that we as adults
, that we pour into our youthand that we are more transparent
and where we are.
You mentioned something to meearlier that's critical and
that's why I am here to tell mystory and to speak that I'm not

(12:47):
perfect.
I've never been perfect.
And I'm not perfect now.
And Brother Victor has to go toGod in prayer daily.
And when you're a young person,sometimes you think that the
people of God are perfect.
And they're not, no matter howthey look or how they dress.

(13:08):
We struggle, we find theApostle.
Paul telling us that he had todie daily, and so all the more
we have to teach who we are andhow God sustains us.
It's not just through prayer,but it's through the

(13:28):
consecration of prayer the wordof God getting in your heart and
being around the people of Godthat you can speak to and
confide in.
I never did feel, I think, mywhere I was, I was deficient was
I didn't have anyone that Icould speak to that I feel that
I could speak to on a level oftransparency when I was a young

(13:53):
person.

Speaker 2 (13:54):
Right.
Right, because I think when Igrew up, because everything was
considered sin, we couldn't talkabout the real wrestle that we
had when we did want to askingthose questions.
You know why can't I do this?
Why why is this wrong?
And everything was just becauseit's sin, and so there was not

(14:17):
ever really good, clear answers.
You know, it didn't always makesense, um, but I, I I want to
say something to what you justsaid.
You said now I have to praydaily, stay in the word, and, um
, you said one other thing, andI know that for those listening

(14:39):
who don't, who maybe haven'tbeen where we've been and coming
back to the Lord, but that itmight sound really cliche, but
when you know where you've beenwhich I know, this is why you do
it, why I do it when you knowwhere you've been, you have to

(15:01):
constantly keep yourself in theplace where you're just in
alignment with the Lord, becausethere are so many things I
think everybody actually in theworld things are getting pulled
at them.
They're just not always awareof it, but when you've been a
backslider and you come back,you know it's so much easier to

(15:23):
stay in the word and stay inprayer.
There's a desire for that yeahlike it's not someone telling
you, victor, you need to go pray, you need to go to church, you
need to, you know, read yourbible.

Speaker 3 (15:35):
No one has to tell you that you do it because you
desire to do that right Ibelieve that the difference for
me now is you know, as you growin God, you learn what
consecration is.
But something that the Lord haseven recently took me through a

(15:58):
season and I realized that whenyou serve God, you really
should serve him in victory.
When you serve God, you reallyshould serve him in victory, not
always in that place ofcondemnation, when you do fall
short of the glory of Godbecause, the Bible tells us we
all fall short, and so I'velearned that when I do fall

(16:18):
short, I go to God immediatelyand I'm like God, I shouldn't
have done that, or I shouldn'thave said that, or I shouldn't
have done that, or I shouldn'thave said that, or I shouldn't
have watched that.
I no longer feel like, oh, poorme, and I'm so condemned and
I'm such a bad person, right anduh.
You know we learned that fromdavid, king david, and all the
things that he did.
Yet the bible tells us he was aman after god's own heart.

(16:41):
So, that being said, the Biblesays where sin did abound, grace
did much more abound, and theLord has had to teach me to have
grace on people and, if you'rewatching this today, have grace

(17:17):
on yourself.
Have a little mercy, becauseJesus died for us and he paid
the price Right.
Right, or I've sinned, but tolearn to come quickly to God,
because he does convict us.
The Bible says he reproachesthose that he loves but he
doesn't condemn us, he forgivesus, and then from that we learn
that I'm not going to get in acycle constantly doing this,

(17:41):
because now it's not a matter ofdeliverance, it's a matter of
discipline.
Right, big difference, hugedifference.
Right yes.
And so, even as an adult, I'vehad to learn it's not a matter
of deliverance, god, I, just,how do you, how do you get into
discipline, right?
Well, I stopped going to theplaces that I used to go.
Right, I stopped talking to thepeople.

(18:02):
I know I shouldn't be talkingto.
You know, I stopped watchingthings I shouldn't be watching
or speaking things that Ishouldn't speak, and then I
began to live in the victory.
The.
Bible says that we are madeovercomers.
There's too many people thatdon't live in the victory Right,
right, right.
So when God, when we repent andwe get the Holy Ghost, or we're

(18:24):
baptized, or even if you're newand you haven't even got there,
you're just in the stage of whatwe call justification.
That just means that God hasjustified us through the blood
and through the cross.
But once we move from thatlevel and we take on the name
Jesus, I believe we go a littlefarther.

(18:45):
We elevate to living insanctification, sanctified and
in victory and through.
In that level I no longer feelcondemned, even when, I make a
mistake.
I feel convicted.
Right.
And I tell God and I get rid ofit.
But I move forward.
I don't take 10 steps back towhere.
I was anymore.

(19:06):
I don't let the enemy or peoplepull me that far back.

Speaker 2 (19:10):
Yeah, I'm glad you just used the distinction
conviction versus condemnation,because there is a lot of people
that grew up, I think, in thePentecostal movement just from
years and years ago where therewas a lot of that and, I think,
done a lot in ignorance, wherethings seemed very condemning,

(19:34):
but I do think there was just alot of misunderstanding, I think
of how that was communicated.
But conviction, the Bible says,is godly sorrow.
When God convicts us, he letsus know hey, this hurt me, and
it allows us to have godlysorrow and then repent and say,

(19:56):
lord, I'm sorry, I didn't evenrealize, you know versus
condemnation being judgment andalmost like a death sentence to
some.

Speaker 3 (20:06):
Penalty.

Speaker 2 (20:07):
Yes, right, and that is not at all who God is.
So I'm so glad you said thatit's good for people watching to
kind of know, the difference.

Speaker 3 (20:19):
So I don't know.
I mean, I could go back tobeing a teen, but even becoming
a young adult, I think Istruggled with many things, even
identity, like who am I, whatwill I be?
What course will I take?
Will it be the church?

(20:40):
Will it be ministry?
Church, will it be ministry?
Because when I was good withthe lord, I always felt ministry
, always felt like that was acalling.

Speaker 2 (20:51):
And when you say ministry, what did that look
like for you and yourimagination?
What did you think that meant?

Speaker 3 (20:57):
you know I remember my mom many, many years ago was
a pivotal point in in ourfamily's life.
She went to to a conferencethat was called the Well
Conference.
It was women of worship withRichard Gazowski.

Speaker 2 (21:13):
I remember Brother Gazowski yeah.

Speaker 3 (21:16):
And when she came back from this conference it was
like it was just like powerful,because my mom was at a pivotal
point of not serving god versusserving god when she went there
.

Speaker 2 (21:32):
She came back a changed lady, but it was radical
a radical change he was kind ofradical, yeah, he was a radical
preacher, yeah, and uh, hetaught a lot on spiritual
warfare.

Speaker 3 (21:44):
Uh, I remember she called us all that week.
She would call us three, four,five in the morning telling us
we've been up all night, we'vebeen praying and telling us
things like I was elevated, just, it was like mom, it's just,
it's kind of out there, um.
But when she came back, she wasstill in spiritual warfare in

(22:05):
our home, in our bedrooms.
This is when my dad gotconverted and I remember her
sweeping but not sweepingthrough the house, and she'd be
praying.
And she said that she waspraying for this guy to go,
pulling down all imaginations.
Of course, as a young, youngman, I don't know all the ins

(22:27):
and outs, what's going on withmy parents and relationship and
all the things of that nature,but things started to happen and
the spirit of god began to moveand I remember bishop abbott
started a five o'clock morningprayer and my mom was going and
I was, I think, a junior, maybea senior in high school, and I

(22:47):
started going up with herbecause the Lord began to to
wake me two, three in themorning, and so when I talk
about ministry, it was like whyare you waking me up, lord, and

(23:08):
calling me to prayer?
And I begin to deal with thedemons in my life.
I remember maybe you've heardof the.
I forget what they call it nowsleep something, paralysis.

Speaker 2 (23:22):
Sleep paralysis yeah.

Speaker 3 (23:23):
And I remember waking one night and because I was a
boy, I had my own bedroom, allmy sisters had a share and my
door was always closed thatnight and there was a dark
figure right at the foot of mybed and I knew that a presence,
a dark presence, had come intomy bedroom and I had that sleep
paralysis.

(23:43):
I couldn't speak, my eyes werewide open and I couldn't see the
face, but it was just thepresence and and I and numb, I
finally started saying in mymind in the name of Jesus, in
the name of Jesus, andeventually it left.
It called me to prayer.
So you best believe that Istarted getting up every day at

(24:06):
five o'clock in the morning.
I don't know if my mom hadprayed about it and said god put
a fire into him or whatever whoknows, but I do believe in the
power of prayer, and I startedto go every day, every morning,
and that's where my prayer lifereally began, and I began to
know who God was and whatspiritual warfare is, and even

(24:28):
at that time, though, I hadn'tbeen taught like what is
actually putting on the armor ofGod.
Right the helmet your loins,your feet, the sword, the
breastplate, shield of faith.
And I didn't understand it eventhough I had probably heard it.

Speaker 2 (24:43):
And memorized it, yeah, so.

Speaker 3 (24:44):
I'm just going and um , and you know, lord has, since
then, has always dealt with mein that manner and spiritual
supernatural manner right andbut unless you consecrate
yourself, right, you could havethat calling but never work in
that gift.
And so, um, uh, you know, atthat time I again, my dad, was

(25:10):
saved and our family had always,um been close to the lord and
we were a big family.
And then, you know, Ipentecostal church with um at
that time was the firstpentecostal church, now abundant
life center.
So then I got married and um,and we were youth leaders so you

(25:30):
stayed in church.

Speaker 2 (25:32):
So this presence that appeared, did it go away after
you started going to five?
And did it only happen?

Speaker 3 (25:40):
once.
It only happened one time.
I find that so interesting.
We'll come back to that laterit only happened, happened one
time.

Speaker 2 (25:43):
I find that so interesting.
We'll come back to that later.

Speaker 3 (25:45):
It only happened that one time.
But I believe that there'sother realms of the spirit that
you deal with because theenemy's cunning.

Speaker 2 (25:58):
Yes, right, and he's sly.

Speaker 3 (26:00):
There's a lot of things that happen at night
Right, that happens in general,that happen at night right, and
it happens in general, but atnight, you know, he, I found and
I've never really discussedthis, but, um, through those
years my, uh, my go-to wasalcohol.
If I wanted to hang out with myfriends and and I just wasn't

(26:24):
in the season of serving theLord, it was like go out with my
friends and party, and it waskind of a common thing that we
would do late at night.
What do you do after midnight?

Speaker 2 (26:38):
So you're in church, but occasionally going out with
friends drinking, but staying inchurch and participating in
church, and so at that time youreally didn't consider yourself
to be away from God orbackslidden.
You just know that you weren'tdoing right, Right.

Speaker 3 (26:56):
Okay, and I think a lot of times young adults live
in that room.
They don't feel fullybackslidden because they go to
church.
They still feel the spirit ofgod, yeah, but you're feeling
the blessing that other peopleare bringing to the house, right
?
And god shows up.
The bible says, um, he inhabitsthe praises of his people.

(27:16):
Yeah, and then I have my mother, who is a prayer warrior, so
the presence of god is alwaysnear me.
Again, we're taking it forgranted you know, a great pastor
, a great pastor's wife andleaders, and so, um, this is
just a little prior to mymarriage, and so I have a little
bit.
I have a lot of god, but I havea little bit of the world that

(27:40):
I hang on to it's those tiesthat bind us.

Speaker 2 (27:43):
Yeah.
And it's deceptive because,like when you go to church and
you feel like you're okay,you're not okay.

Speaker 3 (27:52):
The scary part is when you no longer have the
condemnation.
Yeah, right or the convictionand it becomes norm.

Speaker 2 (28:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (28:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:01):
And our friends in the world that were doing all
this.
This is one reason so manypeople think there's hypocrisy
in the church and there is butit's not always because we want
it to be.
I think it's just because,we're just people that struggle.
Yeah, I mean, who doesn'tstruggle, right, right, there is

(28:23):
such an expectation that if yougo to church you're supposed to
do all these things perfect andgood and you shouldn't have
feelings.
You shouldn't say a bad word,and it's not like I was doing
Bible studies and trying to savesouls.

Speaker 3 (28:39):
I wasn't.
I was just barely hanging onmyself yeah.
So I guess I didn't feel theguilt of being a repubate or a
hypocrite, although maybe Ishould have, but you know I
wasn't.
It's not like I was, you know,doing prayer walks and things of
that nature.
Anyhow, we go through theseseasons and eventually I got my

(29:02):
spirit more on the right track.
And eventually I got my spiritmore on the right track and you
know, I just got on what I guessyou would call the straight and
narrow.
Yeah.
Right Started to exclude, ofcourse, at that time my buddies
are getting married and you knowI'm thinking about marriage,
and so we're.
You know you go from that 18,19 year old, even 2021, to maybe

(29:25):
23, 24.
There's a difference there.
You start finding who you areyou start letting go of ties.
People are getting married orgoing off to college, and so
that's another stage.
You got to start finding well,who am I?
And again, god had never leftme.
He's a faithful God, he's rightthere all the time.

(29:48):
And so I did get married.
We loved our church, we wereclose to the leaders in our
church, and so we quickly becameyouth leaders ourselves.
We didn't have children untilabout six years later, and
that's when my son, seth, camealong in 2000.

(30:10):
Okay.
So I'm 30 years old, 29 at thetime, so you know I had
transitioned into marriage andtrying to be a good husband.
But we waited, we, we bothwanted to grow our careers, um,
to purchase a home and, um, we,we did a lot of that.

(30:34):
But somewhere right around thattime, the enemy, he creeped
back in.
And this is a warning to youthat are watching be careful,
because it wasn't really thattime.
It was way, way back yeah whenyou're playing with the lord and

(30:57):
I've learned that there'sbreaches, that the enemy will
come in and he'll take thosebreaches where you were weak and
those spirits that that hangout with you for many, many
years.
The bible says that he is theauthor of confusion and I

(31:17):
learned for many, many years Iwas a double-minded man, which
the Bible tells us is unstablein all his ways.
Thank God for scripture Rightright, it wasn't, you know.
Eventually my second son cameand my ex-wife and I we divorced

(31:39):
when my second son was eightmonths and my second son was
eight months, so there was.
My sons were very young and Iwas broken at the time.
I didn't have anybody that cameto me and said why are you

(32:04):
getting divorced?
Why is this happening?
Or I, if I'm being honest, Ifelt betrayed by the church
because we were, I was supposedto be a leader, but yet I have
failed.
So I'm feeling a lot of things.
I'm feeling like I failed as ahusband, uh, I failed as a

(32:25):
leader in the church andsometimes even as leaders.

Speaker 2 (32:30):
You, you need somebody that's going to be
there, especially as leaders,because I think as leaders
you're standing alone often andthere's a lot of expectation on
leaders that they should have itall together and they're just
flesh and blood yeah trying towalk it out I think there were a
lot of assumptions to mydivorce and what happened, but

(32:54):
that's all that is is anassumption, unless somebody
comes and you're able to speakwith them.
So um, so the word gets out thatyou guys are getting divorced
and and no one reaches out toyou nothing do you feel like
they took sides?
Not even my family okay, no onereached out no are you going to

(33:16):
talk about?
That I can what happened, whyyou guys got divorced?
What?

Speaker 3 (33:20):
so I, I leaned on myself, which is the wrong thing
to do.
Right, when you're in aposition of of that you're
supposed to lean on the lord,not on your own understanding.
But when you stop going tochurch or uh, you, you, all the
carnal nature, you start to leanon yourself.

(33:43):
And and I didn't lean on peopleI didn't lean on, I wasn't
going to run to people for help.
Um, my ex-wife and I, um we, wehad actually a great
relationship in the six yearsthat we were we were married
nine, but I want to say for sixyears we had a great

(34:04):
relationship.
Um, as anybody who's ever beenmarried, there's times in your
life, there's going to beseasons where you know you're
starting to uh, feel a certainkind of way, or, or you're like,
well, I feel like if I did thisI'd be better, or, you know, is
that is this love?
And and I remember there wasone time I did have a

(34:25):
conversation with my pastor and,um, he said something to me.
He said, well, love is not afeeling and I understand that
now, but I didn't understand itthen.
And um, to me, that was theanswer be consecrated to someone

(34:48):
that you don't feel like youlove.
I do understand that now, right, but I can't change that now.
It's 20 years later right rightbut I didn't understand it then
as a young man and as a youngfather.
Um, so all I can say about thatis that I hope that when we

(35:11):
don't understand and when welean on people who maybe haven't
gone through what we've gonethrough, and if you're hearing
and you haven't gone throughthat, still try to understand,
or or or.
I don't want to say pass thebuck, but if it's something that

(35:33):
I can't help someone, I surewould like to find someone that
can help someone because we wantto give someone godly advice,
scriptural advice, but alsosomeone their sympathy versus
empathy advice, scripturaladvice, but also someone.
Their sympathy versus empathy.

Speaker 2 (35:50):
And so a lot of times if we can't empathize when we
haven't been through it.
So can you sort of unpack whatyou are beginning to go through,
what the temptations are, whatyou are wrestling with in your
thoughts, in your emotions?
One thing sounds very clear tome, just that seems to be a
thread that I can see, is thereseems to be a lot of isolation

(36:13):
to where you felt, a lot ofloneliness.
You know, um, I, just when I Ijust kind of see you moving
through life very alone and thengetting into marriage, probably
, even though it was good, stilljust feeling alone.

Speaker 3 (36:32):
Very independent, and that could be a good thing, but
it can also be a weakness attimes, because you're so
independent, you're just layingon yourself because you're so
independent.
You just lean on yourself and Imean I'll be transparent enough
to say that you know withindependence can come pride and

(36:56):
arrogance, and I've had to learnnow that I have to submit that
to God.
Even confidence you want to haveconfidence, but you don't want
to be overly confident, and sowhen you feel that way you
mentioned alone.
Yeah, there's times where,because someone puts you in a

(37:17):
position or makes you feel likea leader, and then you feel like
, well, then I can't go tosomeone and just tell them all
my weaknesses or where I'mstruggling.
Or is it okay that I'm ahusband and that I feel alone,
because I think probably peoplewould say, well, man up.

Speaker 2 (37:39):
Right, that's the wrong advice.

Speaker 3 (37:42):
And that's probably good advice, but it's not always
the right advice rightsometimes someone needs it,
dismisses a little bit more itdismisses what's really going on
.

Speaker 2 (37:52):
Right, I think everyone knows we have to, we
have to walk through it, but itit doesn't take away the
feelings and you have to addresswhat's going on.
A lot of times the lord is inthose things that he's trying to
expose.
You know, if we just stuff itand keep manning up, it's not
gonna change anything yeah.

Speaker 3 (38:11):
So here we are, me and uh casale we're.
I don't think she'll mind,we're wonderful friends now and
god has blessed us to be friendsagain.
We have amazing children thatare in ministry and God has just
been good to us.
But here we are struggling.
But we had never talked aboutdivorce or even separating, but

(38:40):
we probably missed the mark whenit comes to communication at
that point to reach out topeople that were supposed to be
our mentors or the ministers inour life and, um, I think we
might have gone to people, butat different times, in different
scenarios, but not together asa couple, and that was a mistake

(39:02):
, right?
So, um, because then you'regetting different advice from
different people.
And long story short in that wedivorced and then I kind of I
was hit and miss with church,and she was hit and miss with

(39:25):
church, and she was hit and misswith church and she eventually,
I think, stopped going to ourchurch.
So I was hit and miss and mysons were young and they'd see a
week with me and a week withher and I left Abundant Life
Center, probably when my sonswere about seven, and maybe Cole

(39:51):
was five, if I think backcorrectly.
And so this is where I now I'mlike I'm not tied to the church
at all.
And this is what I would say isyou know, I'm not playing with
God, I'm just not going, period.
And this is what I would say.
Is you know I'm not playing withGod, I'm just not going period

(40:12):
and, um, you know, a little bitof of strife is in my heart and
um, and I'm just going to livemy life and I'm going to, I'm
going to work harder as far assecular world and career and
jobs and things of that nature.
So I do that for a few yearsand, um know, I'm just living in
.
Sin is what it is.
It's just living in sin andcall it what it is.

(40:34):
But at the same time I'm veryprotective of my sons because
when you're instilled with godand the things of god.
I I'm, and then I knew I was thedisciplinary.
Even though we're divorced, I'mstill the disciplinary, and
mom's a little bit more lenientand and fun natured and dad's
like you can't do that.

(40:54):
And so, um, I raised these boysand they were just they've
always been amazing young menand they beat the status quo of,
uh, what statistics statisticswould show as divorced parents,
when a lot of times there's astatistic statistic with, um,
kids of divorce, right.
So, anyways, about, uh, whenthey're about 11, 12, I start

(41:20):
realizing, like, um, if they'reever going to make it, god
starts to deal with me again.
Those nights start to waken meup.
I could feel the call to prayerand I'm thinking God, I don't
deserve that.
And this is the condemnationhitting I'm like I don't deserve

(41:43):
that.
I've done this.
I condemnation hitting, I'mlike I don't deserve that.
I've done this, I've done thatand I know that if my sons are
ever going to make it to heaven,it's going to be because I
drive them there.
And so, rather than going to myroots, I start going to a
non-denominal Christian churchand it was great.

(42:05):
They're beautiful people,wonderful people, had good
services, but there was noconnection and my sons would go
there and they'd be like wegotta go here again, it's so,
they're so long, and they didn'thave a youth group and things
like that.
So, um, it just was one sundaynight and I remember it was
somewhere around 2011.

(42:28):
My sons were with our mom thatweek and I decided I was going
to church and I'm going bymyself, it's not for my sons,
it's it's for me.
And God had been pulling me andI pull up to the non-denominal
church parking lot and I'm like,why am I here?
Because when I'm here, it'ssuch a good church, but I just

(42:49):
don't feel the presence of Godlike I used to and I just get
this impression go to AbundantLife Center.
You're only like 10 minuteslate, 15 minutes late.
So I turn around and I driveall the way across town.
I go to Abundant Life, I walk inand I go, sneak into the back

(43:10):
row and I sit back there andSister Margie Abbott who is not
just my pastor's wife at thetime, but she's my friend, she's
the one that got me into realestate and we've been friends
she came and she gave me a bighug and um, um.

(43:32):
It's so important that whenpeople walk into the house of
God, that we love on themwithout fail and without
condition, because had she knownhow I felt that night and had

(44:02):
someone not reached out, I maynot have ever came back.
But it was true love, it wasgenuine and I just felt
immediately like I'm home andthis is where I need to be.
And I've never be yeah.
And I've never stopped sincethen.
And doesn't mean I haven't hadstruggles.

(44:27):
I did.
You know, you have all thesethings that here I am now in my
30s and have struggled with endsand outs of living for the Lord
and not living for the Lord andnot living for the Lord, and
having the pulls of the worldand allowing sin in your life,
and going through a marriage andhaving kids and sometimes even

(44:49):
feel like, well, that was afailed marriage.
I love my church today and I'mgrateful that they're loving and
it's provided a way for me tobe loving to people and to love
people and to not condemn and tonot criticize.

(45:10):
And so here we are in 2025, butI still had struggles that 2011
and I'm gonna, I'm gonna tellyou that my, my sons,
immediately were just tied tothe youth group.
They were just doing fantastic.
They had great youth leadersand I've never struggled with
them having alcohol issues orparty issues or wanting to live

(45:36):
in in the world.
Um, I mean, they werescholastic.
They're both athletic, um, theylove sports.
They played all of them duringhigh school, um, and but
somewhere along the line, I hadto learn to break those curses.
To break those curses and andto break the chains that that we

(45:59):
have.
We have generational curses andchains that bind us, but you
have to really find what theyare and that's.
You can only do that, living aconsecrated life.
And I'll be honest, it wasyears, even after 2011, that I
came back and I struggled withthis and that and are you
prepared to talk about what thatwas?

Speaker 2 (46:22):
it's pretty vague you know, because I I think where
whatever god has delivered I'veheard this whatever god has
delivered us from is where ourministry is going to be too yeah
um that like if god heals youfor cancer.
You have authority over cancer.
You know, so I just um, like Isaid earlier, before we start, I

(46:44):
know people are reallyapprehensive about sharing where
they have been.
Yeah, but I think that is themiracle from where you are now.

Speaker 3 (46:53):
Yeah, but you know, um, if you could, you know, be a
little more specific, so thatsure people understand what a
miracle this really is so I'mgetting there okay, I thought
you were wrapping up because yousaid and then here we are today
so, um, so I'll try not to bevague, but a struggle for me was

(47:23):
promiscuity and having that, Iremember my older sister.
She was one that I was able totalk to about it and we talked
about sexual sins and you know,when you think about sin,

(47:53):
sometimes people in church ingeneral, church people in
general, will put a bigger pricetag of sin on certain sins.

Speaker 2 (48:02):
Yes, they do, but God said lying is the same as
murder.

Speaker 3 (48:07):
Yeah, because if a man cheats on his wife but then
says he's sorry and comes back,it's like it's not a big deal.
Hey, you know, let them comeback and comes back, it's like
it's not a big deal.
Hey, you know, let them comeback.
But you have other sexual sinsand they could be um more
demonic or more sinful, andthat's not true right right when

(48:28):
there's a breach and there'ssexual sin or there's that
perversion of.
That's what it is.
It's a perversion?
I don't care whether it'sumosexual, homosexual,
molestation, incest.
It's all perverted spirit andso I had to deal with that sin.
And I wasn't really sure,because I mean, I had been

(48:49):
married, I was sexually openI'll say that.
Sexually open, I'll say that.
And um, I had dealt with a lotof different sexual immorality
and I remember I was tired andmy god, why is my, why am I so

(49:15):
dysfunctional?
Sexually.
And it was somewhere around 2019before COVID, or it might've

(49:36):
been 2020.
I was so stinking tired of it,because now the battle of the
battle and the opportunity whatdo you mean by that?
I could have sex anytime I wantand was ever rarely denied sex

(49:56):
by anyone.

Speaker 2 (49:58):
It just doesn't do what it used to do for you and I
know that sounds arrogant, butthat's the world that we live in
.
That's the world that we livein, correct.

Speaker 3 (50:08):
And I think the church sometimes can be clueless
to that.
It's a very open sexually andnow I can.
I can discern it everywhere.
Sometimes I'll walk in a roomand immediately good, we need

(50:28):
more, and I've had to just likejust turn away or walk away or
don't.
This is what god's teaching menow like when to say something
and when to just be quiet.
Because, and pray against itright and then the word of
knowledge is to know when tospeak something at the right
time the word of wisdom word ofwisdom.

(50:52):
So I was dealing with that and,um, I went to the lord one day
and I was in my bedroom and Igot on my knees and I began to
just confess everything to god,even though we know he knows
right and we say god knowseverything.

(51:13):
So I just begin to verballyconfess god this, and I've
confessed to god that.
And god, why do I feel this way?
Or why, why do I have these, uh, lust of the eye, lust of the
flesh, pride of life, and I,just I was starting to learn the
tabernacle and I'm starting tolearn from the outer court going

(51:35):
into the inner court, and I,I'm learning that in the inner
court.
This is where you lay all youremotions, your will, your
passions to God, and I'mlearning all the intricates of
the light, the bread, the word,just the incense, all the

(51:56):
different things that arehappening on the inner court.

Speaker 2 (51:59):
The symbolism right From the physical to the
spiritual.

Speaker 3 (52:03):
So I'm starting to understand spiritual warfare,
right, and I'm starting to pulldown imagination that it exalted
self against God.
But I'm going to God and I saidGod if you will just show me,
because I had already gone tocounseling, and I said God, if

(52:26):
you will show me and give meunderstanding, I must have wept
for three hours solid straight.
And um, god did.

Speaker 2 (52:41):
He began to show me and he began to reveal some
things to me that I didn't knowthat was hidden from you that
was there, but, but it was justhidden from you or brand new
knowledge, both.

Speaker 3 (52:58):
Okay, Both and I literally had flashbacks like
pictures being thrown in my headas I'm praying.

Speaker 5 (53:09):
And the Lord began to show me some things that
happened to me.

Speaker 3 (53:14):
I don't know how old I was but I had been touched.
I don't know how old I was, butI had been touched, I don't
know.
I guess you could call thatmolestation, but I had been
touched in areas I shouldn'thave been touched with, played
with and I hadn't.
I'm like what in the world?
You didn't remember.

(53:34):
I remembered after theflashback.

Speaker 2 (53:37):
Yeah, after the Lord revealed it.

Speaker 3 (53:38):
But I had never thought on that, dwelt on that.
I never thought it was an issuein my life.
Let me tell you something veryinteresting.
I cannot taste or smell becauseof a car wreck I was in in 1998
, and my senses were severedhere.
When God revealed that to me, Icould literally smell that

(54:00):
bedroom.
That it happened in.

Speaker 2 (54:03):
That it happened in.

Speaker 3 (54:03):
I could smell certain things.
So I knew it was a revelationfor me and I just laid there and
I wept before the Lord for thelittle boy yeah, but I begin to

(54:27):
thank God that you would.
The Bible says in John I thinkit's 1426 that he will send the
comforter which is the spirit of.
God, the Holy Ghost, will revealall things.
I'm telling you.
When I really got my life right, I knew that it was the word of

(54:50):
God that would help me and setme apart from all the things I
struggled in my life, becausehis word is true and now I lean
on his promises, dare yea andamen, and he began to show me
some things and began to heal myheart, because healing starts

(55:11):
here.
Yes, it does.
And he began to heal me.
And when he began to heal me,and when he began to heal, it
was a 180 for me to look ateverything differently, started
to make sense and to love people.

(55:34):
That spirit of pride began tobreak.
Loss of the eye, loss of theflesh, pride of life they're
crazy that they're all three aretogether yes, and so now all

(55:59):
sin, I believe, began to to lookat the Lord and in different
ways, and understand that Godloves me and God wants to reveal
things to me and he wants toheal my heart.
He began to use me and putother people in my life that I

(56:21):
trust and that I can speak toand open doors for me.
And it's funny because when Godheals you in one area, it seems
like it domino effects in otherareas of your life domino
effects in other areas of yourlife.
In hindsight I look back.
Since my marriage I've hadlittle spotty relationships,

(56:45):
nothing longevity I reallydidn't have the desire.
It was always me, me, and samething with my jobs.
God has blessed me withwonderful jobs but, they've been
spotty.
You know, I'll do one and I'llflip that one, and it's greener.
God began to heal even thosethings, and finances and

(57:08):
relationships, and it'swonderful when God begins to
heal you and you begin to knowwho you are.
Right right Not just inyourself, but in Christ Jesus.

Speaker 2 (57:18):
Right, right, the real identity comes forward,
right.

Speaker 3 (57:22):
Right.
And so now I live in that realm, that his name has been applied
to my life, and I walk in thatvein, not in Victor's vein,
right.
And so do I still struggle?

(57:45):
Um, not so much.
Um, I did for a little bit, butlike I said when you, when you,
conquer right.
It made up mind when youconquer undervalued yeah, when
you conquer and in um, god givesyou revelation, word of wisdom,
wonder of knowledge, you canwalk into places, you can
recognize the same spirits thatyou've dealt with sometimes even

(58:06):
see them, and you either knowin the Holy Ghost.
Is this a time to pray for it,or is this a time just to walk
away.
Maybe at another time pray forit, or is this the time just to
walk away?
Maybe at another time?

Speaker 2 (58:22):
I, I mean I, I I spoke to people even in our
general assembly that I know aredealing with exactly what I
dealt with there is way more ofthat in the church than I think
because you know, I, because ofmy job, I'm just privy to
knowing some things about thatkind of stuff.
Just overall, there's a lot ofwonderful Christians out there,

(58:45):
but the enemy, like you said,he's very cunning, he's very sly
, he will do whatever he can toget someone to fall, and I think
there's so many things thatexist in the church and not
because the church people arebad, but because they're human
yeah you know, and we're allsusceptible to sorrow, to

(59:06):
loneliness, to um frustration,to all these things right, all
all these things.
There's hurt in the world and sothe enemy I read one day from.
I read someplace that he's anopportunist, so he will come at
us in our weaknesses and temptus with whatever we are most

(59:26):
susceptible to.
And often, when abuse occurs inchildhood, it can take many
forms of sexual immorality andperversion.
And in 2000 or 2001, I read astatistic, I read a journal

(59:51):
article six out of 10 people hadalready been victims of
childhood sexual abuse.
Yeah.
And that was 25 years ago, youknow.
I personally believe, you know,we might be like eight out of
10.

Speaker 1 (01:00:06):
That's what we know of Right Correct Eight out of 10
, nine out of 10.

Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
And just growing up in my circle in church I knew of
a lot of kids who had beenvictims, my childhood best
friend who died on her 21stbirthday, you know it does.
I'm so grateful to have beenraised in a safe home and going
to church and being protected,you know.
Yeah.
Because we are so naive to whatthe world faces.

(01:00:33):
But outside of that hedge ofprotection there's a lot of
things, and then those peoplecome to church and so it's no
wonder that people on the churchpew struggle with things,
because they've been out in theworld like the rest of us.
But there is a lot of it and Ithink the conversation is so
important because, as you said,in the church world some sin

(01:00:58):
seems to be worse than other sin, but in God's eyes there is no
sin that is any worse than theother.
You know, and if we don't getbetter at being able to have
conversation and learn aboutreally where people live and
what they struggle with, we'regoing to alienate them.

Speaker 3 (01:01:22):
Yeah, Cause people.
I think we're not careful, weget that cliche could come up
like well, why bring it up now?

Speaker 2 (01:01:32):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:01:32):
So long ago.

Speaker 2 (01:01:33):
Right what's?

Speaker 3 (01:01:34):
the point now.
Um, I spoke to my pastor theother night and, by the way,
I've never had this conversationwith anyone, so I think there's
going to be a lot of peoplethat are like what in the world?
And it wasn't.
I wasn't hesitant or a fear ofshaming myself, because I don't

(01:01:55):
live in shame.
Well, that is the beauty.

Speaker 2 (01:01:59):
The enemy can't use it against us anymore, right
when God has really set us free.
We can say anything in freedom,because the enemy can't use it
against us anymore.

Speaker 3 (01:02:10):
Like you can't even like I would be like.
But I was more hesitant becausethey didn't want the
conversation to come up likethat.
I need to expose someone right,right yeah um, so it was that
issue.
But, um, we were just talkingthe other night and, um, you

(01:02:30):
know, I had mentioned him, thatI was coming to see you, we were
going to have a conversation,and that there's power in
transparency and there's healing, and so, for those reasons, I
feel like, if this willencourage someone else to know
that it don't matter what you'vebeen through, right, the god
that we serve, there's a.

(01:02:50):
There's a word I just studied,uh, during christ or easter, it
was called, I think it'stetelestai.
It's a greek word that, um, youknow, the lord spoke arabic
right when he was on earth, butin greek it meant I have paid
the debt.

(01:03:11):
What comes from the words thathe hung on the cross?
It is finished.
And when you realize that, thatit don't matter what you've done
or what you've been through,the price has been paid.
There's no reason for you tolive in that muck or that realm

(01:03:33):
the debt has been paid.
It's silly for us to want tolive in a debt that the Lord has
already paid that debt.
And we can have freedom fromall bondage.
I heard Brother Keith, and itdon't matter what we've done in
our past.
Man.
God is just a healer.

(01:03:53):
Healer, and when it comes tothe sins of the world, it
doesn't matter if it'sperversion or murder or lying or
gossip.
I think it all comes into anutshell where God wants to heal
and when he heals you of that,it's so powerful because you

(01:04:17):
almost become relentless withthe Lord.
You almost become radical, likeI talked about my mom at the
women of worship when she cameout of that, and that's how I
feel with God today.
There is nothing that's goingto stop me or keep me.
There's no words that someonecan say to me of my past,

(01:04:41):
because I know who my god is.
We're heirs of the high priestthat stands before us and that's
paid the price.

Speaker 2 (01:04:50):
So and victor I'm.
I am pretty convinced that whenthe devil comes against
children the way he did with youand the way he's done with so
many, it is to destroy the callof God on their life so that

(01:05:11):
they never achieve it, theynever reach their identity in
Christ, they never reallyunderstand why their life took
the turns that it took.
And going back to yourchildhood, I just want to make a
distinction, and this is Idon't mean this in the

(01:05:36):
catchphrase that it's going tosound, I don't mean this in the
catchphrase that it's going tosound the enemy is who is to
blame?
Okay, for where you've been andwhere others have been.
It is the enemy who was out todestroy you.
We do have free will, we do havechoice, but a lot of choice is

(01:05:59):
made in ignorance.
I know that we're stillresponsible for that, we're
still accountable for that, butI think when you do come into
freedom and the Lord does reallydeliver you, you can look back
and see all the places that theenemy was just on your heels
right and out of, because itsounds like that you always

(01:06:21):
loved the Lord, right, and Ithink that's why God has always
kept you.
No matter what you've beenthrough.
God always knew your heart.
But people very much get boggeddown in their own condemnation
because they think that they'reso bad.

(01:06:41):
But it's the enemy who is tryingto destroy those people and
they just fall prey to itbecause they're ignorant.
You know, my people perish fora lack of knowledge, and so,
when you look back at your life,clearly God did have a call.

(01:07:02):
You had that spirit show up inyour room Like why was that
spirit there?
Where did that come from?
What was its purpose to bethere?

Speaker 3 (01:07:14):
To bring fear Right.

Speaker 2 (01:07:15):
Because what then does fear do?
It prevents us from moving intothe supernatural, to be there
or to bring fear Right.
Because what then does fear do?
Right?
It prevents us from moving intothe supernatural, it prevents
us from going deeper becausethere's, I think, an awareness
there, right, but the fact thatyou could see it in the spirit.
Yeah.
The fact that the Lord's alwaysdealt with you in the
supernatural.
I believe the enemy just wantedto keep you in bondage so that

(01:07:39):
you never walk in these placesthat you're walking in now.

Speaker 3 (01:07:44):
You know if the enemy can isolate you.

Speaker 2 (01:07:47):
Yes, if he can isolate you.

Speaker 3 (01:07:49):
He does a good job at that he does a real good job at
that.
Whether you're confident orinsecure, he will manipulate you
to isolate you, that you don'ttell anyone, that you could deal
with it on your own Right, orthe reverse, that nobody loves
me or no one cares about me.
Right.
If he can isolate you, thenhe's got you.

(01:08:11):
But I have found now with thewonderful people I have in my
life that their greatness is notfrom perfection.

Speaker 2 (01:08:24):
No.

Speaker 3 (01:08:25):
Their greatness has come from overcoming and
conquering and being transparentand dealing with all of the
mishaps that happen in theirlife and realizing the enemy.
You had me for a little bit,but I read the back of the book.

(01:08:45):
I know my story and I'm goingto walk in the will of God and
I'm going to tell people mystory and I'm going to tell them
the testimony of Jesus.
That's the spirit of prophecy.
And I recently I have a friendthat she was asked to speak at a

(01:09:06):
women's conference and tell herstory.
And here I was, I hadn't toldmy story, and she's like, no,
and I'm like go Tell Tell yourstory, and I hope that I can.
This will help other peopletell your story.
God will heal you, he'll healyour heart and you'll conquer,

(01:09:26):
you'll live in the victory.
And, um, those battles thatwere once there, now they're
just like little flies the deal.
The devil don't deal with mewith that now.
Now, if he's dealing with me,it's like man.
I shouldn't have said that, lordor you know um, I need to keep
my spirit right and it's now.
It's learning the fruits of thespirit kindness and meekness

(01:09:49):
and gentleness and longsuffering and um, but the one
thing that is in that and in thegifts is faith, and it's really
helped me to have a greaterfaith in the God that I serve,
that in faith I can do allthings through Christ, who

(01:10:10):
strengthens me?
It's not me.
It's him.
And I've learned that he is mysource and it's not me.
It's not accolades, it's notdegrees, it's him.
And I've learned that he is mysource and it's not me.
It's not accolades, it's notdegrees, it's not jobs, it's him
.
Bible says the earth is theLord's and the fullness thereof.
And.
I thank God for it.

(01:10:31):
What an amazing God that wehave, and he definitely is a
healer, not just in the physical, but in the emotional.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:10:45):
I think that's some of the greatest work.
I think the body follows.
Yeah.
Your sister told me on Sundaythat you were hospitalized and
almost died.
Like when was that?
I don't know anything about thestory other than God performed

(01:11:06):
a miracle so, as God begins toheal you, it will dominate.

Speaker 3 (01:11:15):
It will domino effect and this is what's happening
now.
I'm starting to feel the dominoeffect, but it had to be here
first, right, because it was allblack in here and corrupt and
confused.
But I've dealt with a blooddisorder for years and I've been
chronic anemia for many, manyyears.
But a lot of people have anemiabut my blood volume will go to

(01:11:42):
a critical under seven.

Speaker 2 (01:11:44):
I've been down to 5.9 what does that mean for people
that are not medical, like whatis our normal blood volume?
So my.

Speaker 3 (01:11:53):
A man's normal blood volume is 14 to 17.
A woman's is somewhere around12, 13 to 15, 16 is that core to
that?
Leaders that would be, I thinkabout equivalent to a pint okay
right, okay, right, that's whatwe get.

Speaker 2 (01:12:08):
So 14 to 17 pints.

Speaker 3 (01:12:09):
So if you can, imagine, you know, 17 bags of
plasma is usually what a manwill function with, and I've
been functioning with an averageof 7 to 9.
So I'm always low.

Speaker 2 (01:12:26):
And that's your normal rate.

Speaker 3 (01:12:28):
Yeah, and I've been fatigued, tired.
You know he's attacked myhealth, the enemy has attacked
my health in a lot of differentways.
But then, on top of that, I washaving chronic anemia.
I went to see a hematologistbecause my heart rate was always
jumping really high.
I feel like I'm having a heartattack and out of breath, short

(01:12:51):
of breath, labored, fatigued, aheart attack and out of breath,
short of breath, um, labored,fatigue.
And so, uh, uh, they startsending me to a cancer Institute
and they tell me you have noiron, you're not just anemic,
you don't.
You're down to 0.02.
So they're going to startinjecting me with injectifer,

(01:13:11):
which is a iv iron infusion.
But they told me, when you havethis iron infusion, you'll do a
cycle of three for three weeks,because it's too strong to give
it at one dose, and you'll have, you know, inflammation, all
this side effects.
So they said, after the threecycles, in one month, you'll be

(01:13:32):
fine for a year.
This started in 22.
No, sorry, 2023.
And a month after those threecycles I went to get my labs and
it was gone.
It was completely gone.

Speaker 2 (01:13:46):
The iron was.

Speaker 3 (01:13:47):
The iron was, and this hematologist told me he's
Dr Bryson here in Viselli.
He said in the 60 years I'vebeen doing this, this has never
happened.
So he starts me on a new cycle.
Long story short, I go throughuh 39 infusions in up till now

(01:14:08):
in two years you've been through39.
Yeah, and my body it was justtired, yeah, just worn out.
And in between there, I'mgetting blood transfusions,
because my blood will just drop.

Speaker 2 (01:14:21):
So Is there a source that's causing?
I mean, you don't have toanswer that, but I've never
heard of this before, so Ididn't know if it's a disease
process or if it's just.
I know some people have verylow blood volume he told me that
, um, there's something calledavms.

Speaker 3 (01:14:41):
They're atrial venous malformations.
So the best I could explainthat is if you look on your eye,
under your eyelid, you seethose little red varices.
They're not quite big veins,but they're little small varices
.
I in here, you have them inyour esophagus and they think
that they expand and they bleedout on me so you're bleeding

(01:15:03):
internally internally, and thenum, for I don't need to explain
the rest, but there's only oneway for um for it to come out.
So I'm losing blood constantlyokay and um, they're like the
only way to heal that or fixthat is when we go in surgically

(01:15:23):
down your throat.
Um, unless they're expanded, wecan cauterize them, but that's
generally not what happens.
It just randomly, when they ithappens, they bleed out right
I've had probably 12colonoscopies, maybe five to
eight endoscopies.
Everything comes back clean, nocancer.
They started, uh, testing mefor leukemia and then they

(01:15:46):
started doing a bone marrowtesting and told me that my bone
marrow does not produce anyiron.
And then there's somethingcalled an iron saturation.
So if you're not producing iron, you can eat iron or take iron
tablets, but if you have nosaturation, that iron doesn't
bind right to the blood cell,right?

(01:16:07):
so they do.
Iron saturation is.
That don't work either, so saysyou don't even need to take
iron pills because it doesn'tsaturate.
So your only treatment is goingto be inject your fur infusion
through IV the rest of your life.
So now I'm getting mad.

Speaker 2 (01:16:29):
Get your life right, and now you're dealing with this
.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:16:32):
But one of my mentors told me you know, ben and me
especially men when you geteverything straight, he'll come
after you then with yourfinances or your health.
So my health had been attackedand my finances had been
attacked.
So I had told the Lord, god, Ijust it was the day that I text

(01:16:56):
you oh, you said there was amiracle that happened.

Speaker 2 (01:16:59):
Yeah, something that was the.

Speaker 3 (01:17:00):
This is all coming the day I text you and why I
told you I was going to do thispodcast.
I uh, my sister had called methat day like at five in the
morning, and she says I had todream about you.
I woke up, was praying for youand I was down and I wouldn't
say down like backslid down, butdown we're like god fix this

(01:17:23):
kind of thing you know what Imean, like I'm tired of dealing
with this.
I'm tired of going to er, tiredof infusions, getting poked and
being tired and I can't do whatI want to do.
After she called me, I'm like,oh, I still got an hour to sleep
, laying my head down thinkingI'm going to sleep an hour, and
I couldn't.
I was like, okay, god, I'll getup, started praying and just

(01:17:46):
something clicked and I'm likeI'm not going to be telling God,
like poor me, or nothing likethat.
I'm going to do exactly what Iteach in my Bible studies and
I'm going to do what the word ofGod tells me to do.
And I started to just proclaimand speak in faith.
And I started to walk around inmy house and I just started to
speak faith and I had beenreading a brother Winslow's book

(01:18:09):
and he talks about the.
The four angels that are thecherubs, are around the, the
throne, and he speaks on thelevels of one being having a
human face and an eagle and alion and ox right and just one
of them, which is um the lion isabout authority and I just

(01:18:30):
started just speaking thatauthority and going before God
and I just man for an hour I wasjust like I feel good in my
spirit, I feel horrible in mybody but, I'm glad I feel good
in my spirit, got dressedbecause I had to go to Fresno
corporate office that day andI'm just going the whole way on
the highway just proclaimingeverything.
usually I turn on a podcast orsomething that day and the Lord

(01:18:53):
spoke to me to do this podcastand that he would heal me.

Speaker 2 (01:18:59):
Wow, praise God, I'm looking for that, victor.
So um that he didn't bring youthis far, not to do that not to
complete the work he didn't.

Speaker 3 (01:19:10):
I mean God will.
He'll make you whole.
You know, when you think aboutthe lady with the issue of blood
he was caught.
God was constantly tellingpeople go and be made whole and
when you, when I startedstudying wholeness.
It means to revert back to youroriginal state yeah, it's not

(01:19:30):
just to help me feel better.
God Right, Give me new blood.

Speaker 2 (01:19:35):
Right.

Speaker 4 (01:19:40):
And when we know that it's not about us, it's about
his purpose through us, why hedid it.
He wants someone to hear it.

Speaker 2 (01:19:42):
Yeah, yes, but it's also about, I believe, whatever
your gift set is and what Godhas called you to be, you're
going to have authority, you'regoing to understand a little

(01:20:02):
more about God's process, you'regoing to be able to speak the
word of faith to people fortheir healing.
This is about I think this isabout our last day revival and
what God's going to do in thechurch and in the world 100%,
and he's equipping you.

Speaker 3 (01:20:15):
This is an equipment process, in my humble opinion,
and through the last three tofour years I've had different
prophets speak into my life andthey're always aligned.
One was Brother Winslow.
The year before he passed.
He came and spoke into my lifeand they're always aligned.
One was one was brother winslowthe year before he passed came

(01:20:36):
and spoke over my life verydirect, very precise you want to
share it yeah, so he he, just Iremember I love that kind of
stuff.
He said some of you.
Tonight you've been dealingwith some things and I don't

(01:20:58):
know why I took it personal.
He's talking to me and he saidbut you would think he was
talking to people who don't knowhim because he started talking
about repentance.
We're going to repent right nowand you're never going to deal
with that again.
This is where God started toheal me here, right and I
remember he said raise yourhands right now.
And I raised my hands and Isaid, god, I don't ever want to

(01:21:20):
deal with those types of spiritsor that that I've battled my
whole life.
And when I did, I just feltrefreshed, nothing huge, right,
right, put my hands down.
And he says brother, can I?
You right there?
And he's been coming to ourchurch for years never, called
me out.
Right, he called and he says you, I, I see a light.
The lord just spoke to me andof course you know I'm doing

(01:21:42):
this and he says you.
He says common and he spoke overmy life.
He says, um, I see a light overyou, uh, the word you have, the
word of wisdom, and uh, god isgoing to use you.
And he started talking about myfamily, that I was going to
give a word and they would notfall to the ground void.
And he just began to speak manythings over my life and I, you

(01:22:08):
know, when you someone speaksthe word of faith to you, or
prophetic word, sometimes it'syou're trying to pray and and
not, you know, go a littleradical because you want to hear
.

Speaker 2 (01:22:19):
Right, right right.

Speaker 3 (01:22:21):
And take it and receive Right.
So I was trying to do both, butI just remember the Lord
touching me.
But I remember both.
My sons came and put theirhands on me and I could feel the
Holy Ghost between the three ofus.
And then he spoke a word overthem the next night, so um two
years, uh, last year brotherLava, justin Lava, came and

(01:22:44):
spoke, spoke another word overme and just began to speak about
anointing elevation, um, wisdom, knowledge um and then finances
.
And elevation, wisdom, knowledge, and then finances.
And then last year SisterFloshaw spoke a word over me and

(01:23:04):
talked a little bit about thespirit of Winslow and that God
was going to use me in thosegifts, and those are huge.

Speaker 2 (01:23:15):
For anybody who's watching, who doesn't understand
what we might be discussing.
We're talking about the ninegifts of the Spirit that are
found in 1 Corinthians 12 and 14.
And God gives those to thechurch to edify, to encourage,

(01:23:38):
to correct, to strengthen.
But you can read about it in 1Corinthians 12 and 14.
And bookmarked in between thoseis 1 Corinthians 13, which is
the chapter of love, by whichnothing else functions.
So he received a word ofprophecy, a word of knowledge

(01:24:00):
spoken over him, and so it allfitly joined together.
Right God.
Whatever began in the beginningof your life, the completion is
where he's going to use you, inministry, and that is probably
who he's always called you to be.
The enemy just tried to subvertthat purpose.

Speaker 3 (01:24:24):
And you kind of know that as a person, but you don't
always speak it because you'relike well, you know, I kind of
messed it up or I divertedthrough my life and maybe that
anointing left, but they hadconfirmed that the anointing
hadn't left.
and um, the last couple yearsI've learned before the gifts of

(01:24:46):
the spirit, before you can usethem, and what sister flo had
told me was he's going to useyou because you've been asking
him and you've wanted to be usedthis way and I've always asked
that but was unsure that Godwould impart that to me and I

(01:25:06):
said that to say that the lastcouple years God began to take
me through some things, throughsome seasons, but I've learned
now that they're just seasons.
They're to develop the fruitsbecause you can't use the gift
correct.

Speaker 2 (01:25:20):
Thank you for saying that.

Speaker 3 (01:25:21):
Right fruits, I cannot give a word of knowledge
or a gift of healing ordiscerning of spirit, or the
gift of faith without love.
I have to have love, I have tohave faith.

Speaker 2 (01:25:36):
I have to be patient, meekness.

Speaker 3 (01:25:40):
I can tell you too, right now, that I'm lacking the
other ones.
I feel like, okay, god, now Iknow why you did that or why I
went through that.
Am I there?
No, not at all, but God, it'sdeveloping and when you let God
develop, he'll show you.
And you, up to this point, youkind of keep, I kept it to

(01:26:02):
myself, because it actuallymakes you more God.
When the time is right, I'll doit, but I'm not going to say
anything and it's not for myglory or to boast.

Speaker 2 (01:26:12):
But when you put me in a place to do it, yeah, but
I'm not going to say anythingand it's not for my glory or to
boast, but it's for the church,it's for the world to do it,
yeah, yeah it'll happen it's forpeople to you know, look at how
much your faith is built and myfaith.
over the years, I mean sinceI've been a little kid people
been giving me words and I lookback now and I think it's
because they have kept me.

(01:26:33):
They have kept me through allthe things that I've been
through, knowing that God okay,you saw me there, you made me
this promise, you know, and Ithink that's what they're for.
That's why you know, I thinkthe gifts are going to increase.

(01:26:55):
But I think it's interestingthat you said you were so rooted
in self-sufficiency, dependenton yourself, and and the
confidence and the arrogance andthe you know, um, all the
things that come withself-sufficiency, and so when
you allowed God to really workand heal you, he just balanced
that out with all of thehumility that you were going to

(01:27:18):
need.
Because I feel like what he hastaught me is when you really
know your source, when youreally know it is never going to
be about me, your source, whenyou really know it is never
going to be about me.
We don't always know that untilthe Lord really humbles us, but

(01:27:40):
he humbles us gently, throughlove, through a place of
surrender that we can.
Then okay, whatever you bring.
Is so not going to be about us?

Speaker 3 (01:27:53):
It's going to be about him.
And I'll share with you how heshowed me and then I'll get back
to the healing Cause.
I know we diverted, but I Ididn't forget it.
So he showed me because lastyear I resigned from a a very
good corporate office, great joband the Lord blocked me from

(01:28:13):
having a job for 10 months,couldn't get a real estate.
I couldn't get a real estate job, even though I have a real
estate license.
I couldn't get a good medicaljob even though I have my degree
.
And I couldn't get a jobflipping burgers.
About five months down the roadI realized okay, god, I get it.

(01:28:37):
What do you want from me?
Anything you want, I'll do.
And I just began to just dig itwho my source was, and he began
.
He showed me like I'm thesource right, he's the source.

Speaker 2 (01:28:50):
Isn't that the greatest lesson?
Cause you never worry about itagain, and that's why I started
quoting that scripture the earthis the lord's influence.

Speaker 3 (01:28:57):
Everything belongs to him yes even when you get a job
, that employer didn't give youthat job.
God gave me that job.
Um, whatever you accelerate,you can thank the people and
honor them but know that godplaced them in your life or that
he aligned you with the rightpeople or the right job, and so
he showed me, he orders ourfootsteps.

(01:29:20):
He sure did show me Ten months.
I was blocked.
I mean I would get blocked bypeople.
I knew in the industry thatbefore they would have just
picked me up and I was like, ok,so I just begin to start, start
my bible studies back up.
I begin to lean on him.
Uh, I painted the church.
Oh, throwing myself God,whatever it is like, show me

(01:29:45):
what you want.
So I did all that and Irealized so I'm not going to go
further with that, but I knowwho my source is, and it's him.
And then he aligned me inJanuary.
And until now.

Speaker 2 (01:29:55):
It's ridiculous how God has blessed me financially.
But, now you know you neverhave to fight that battle again,
but you learned to trust him inthat area.

Speaker 3 (01:30:13):
And he was developing a fruit right.

Speaker 2 (01:30:15):
He was equipping you for ministry, so that you were,
you know, because without thefruit you can't do it.

Speaker 3 (01:30:25):
And it's important to understand do you suffer
through that?
Sometimes you do.
It doesn't always feel like ablessing Right.
It's going to feel like ablessing right.
Gonna feel like why, god don'tyou know that I'll, I could lose
a house or I got I still got topay the bills, all the secular
things of the world.

Speaker 2 (01:30:43):
But just remember, god will take you through it,
but the bible says too thatwisdom is in the house of sorrow
and there, and you and all ourtears, he holds in the bottle
and he will pour them out inblessing.
There is so, so, so many versesabout sorrow and suffering.

(01:31:04):
That is tied to wisdom andknowledge and understanding, and
if we could ever understand howthe spiritual world works in
the opposite of the natural, wewill walk around rejoicing when
we do, like the bible says whenyou fall into divers temptations
.
Rejoice, you know, give godpraise like it's the hardest

(01:31:26):
thing in our flesh to do yeah,but it does not come without
purpose.

Speaker 3 (01:31:32):
And now, when something comes my way, I feel
like there's a breakthroughcoming.

Speaker 2 (01:31:37):
There's a reason, right right, bring it on.
Yeah, bring it on.

Speaker 3 (01:31:43):
But you know, be careful what you pray for.
But if you really do want it,god will take you through it but
he'll bring you out victorious.
You through it, but he'll bringyou out victorious.
So back to last Wednesday, whenI'm talking to the Lord and I
text you and I said I'll do thispodcast, I begin to tell the
Lord on the way home from Fresno.
I say God, I don't know why I'mjust thinking I need I know

(01:32:06):
what I need I need a 12 levelblood.
I haven't been that in 10 years.
So I need 12, 12.
I don't know why I'm justasking you, god, I'm not asking
for 14, I need 12.

Speaker 2 (01:32:20):
If you'll do that for me to bring your blood count up
to 12 uh liters in your bodyand the week prior to that I was
at the hospital and my bloodlevel was 7.1.

Speaker 3 (01:32:32):
They will not transfuse you until you drop
below 7.
That's policy.
So I know in a week it'salready below that.
So my doctor calls me that sameday that I text you.
And I had asked the Lord I want12.
Show me 12, lord.
And Dr Bhaskar, who's anamazing physician here.

(01:32:56):
He calls me.
He says hey, dr Bryson sent meyour labs.
I need you to go to thehospital tonight and get a
transfusion.
I said I know I'm going to workright now I have clients still
six.
I'll go after work.
He says you promise, and I saidI promise I'm going tonight
because I hadn't been feelingwell, I knew I was weak.

(01:33:16):
He says okay, because by nowyou're probably below seven.
So I already put an order inthey'll transfuse you tonight.
Uh, I went and I sat in the.
They took me right away and didmy labs, did my whole workup.
Heart rate was like 130.
My blood pressure was about 180over 110.

(01:33:39):
Those of you that know that'snot good, that's not my norm.
And they took all my.
They triaged me and said we'regoing to, we're setting up a
room for you, we're going togive you transfusion, of course,
took my blood labs um.
An hour later the physiciancomes um and he said he takes me
to a triage room and he saysgood news and bad news.

(01:34:02):
And I said, okay, well, justgive me the bad news first.
And he says bad news is I can'ttransfuse you today.
He said the good news is yourblood level is 12 point
something it was 12.1 without atransfusion.
Hallelujah so I, just like youknow, wide-eyed to him and I

(01:34:23):
said well, you know that'simpossible.
He says that is impossiblebecause your doctor sent us the
other labs.
He said so we could do, uh, acouple of things.
He says but we can.
We can either, um, you know, doanother lab and or you can go
back tomorrow and see yourprovider and figure something
out so I said, well, I'm alreadybeen here two hours, let's just

(01:34:46):
do it.
And um my heart rate.
I'm always checking, it'salways on and it's always high I
saw it when you came in, so uh,he says, yeah, I agree, let's
do that.
As soon as he leaves, the lordprompts me like I'm blessing you
, and I said you know what, god,you are blessing me and I'm

(01:35:07):
probably healed yeah here I amstill questioning god, right?
so I put my heart rate deal onand I'm even sitting.
I'm usually a 110.
It was 69.
Wow, which is normal.
And I said, lord, I know youjust healed me.
Yes.
And I'm going to leave, and so Ifind the provider.

(01:35:27):
I literally walk and go findhim and I said can you have just
do my stats real quick?
And I think I'm going toreconsider.
They came back, did my bloodpressure?
It was normal.
It was like 120 over 80.
Um, everything was normalpraise lord and I said I've
reconsidered god still doesmiracles.
I said I'm gonna go home and I'mjust gonna count my blessings

(01:35:49):
he goes okay.
I went home that night.
Sister kathy and I slept fornine hours straight which is not
my norm.
I just can't do that.
I knew god had healed me and umthose of you that are watching,
that would take fivetransfusions to get me from
there to there, or two years forit to build up.

Speaker 2 (01:36:09):
God had from seven to .

Speaker 3 (01:36:11):
God had did it in a matter of hours.

Speaker 2 (01:36:14):
Wow, with no transfusion.

Speaker 3 (01:36:17):
The day that you went to conference which we had the
ladies conference.
I had went that day Didn't planon going to host or anything
and went to my provider Just toget confirmation.

Speaker 2 (01:36:29):
Yeah, well, I think we need to do that Because
people need to see that.
Yeah, and I think we have to.
We need to do that becausepeople need to see that.

Speaker 3 (01:36:34):
Yeah, and a lot of times it's just a verbal oh my
God, I want it on paper.
And so I went and my providersays how was your transfusion?
And I said I didn't have one.
He says why?
And I said because it was a 12.
He said that's not possible.
He says, and he has a nursepractitioner with him.
He says let's do an in-housetoday.

(01:36:56):
He said cause it's possible.
They gave you labs on the wrongpatient and I said Dr Bhaskar,
I don't know what your faith is,but I know that God is healing
me.
And I knew that day that I wasgoing to tell my provider that I
don't know why I just feltimpressed.
That day.
I was going to tell my providergod is healing me and I did.
He says okay, let's just doublecheck.

(01:37:18):
They checked it, come back andthey told me it's actually 13
abundantly above all that wecould ask or think right thank
you jesus, that's amazing.
Thank you Jesus, that's soexciting he is amazing and I
have it on paper.
I have two labs dated just daysapart and no transfusions in

(01:37:40):
between.

Speaker 2 (01:37:41):
And so, Victor, when I saw you on Friday night at
church, so I totally got blessedwatching you.
Did you?
Have you ever prayed for peoplelike you did that night, or was
that?
Do you feel like that was thebeginning of something for you?
Uh, I have, but in smallersettings, I felt like you, were

(01:38:04):
across the entire church prayingfor people and, um, I I didn't
plan on going to church that day.

Speaker 3 (01:38:14):
I had just got back from the doctor.
Sister Grogan had called andsaid hey, someone's going to be
missing.
One of the young men can't host.
Can you host?
And I said, sure, since theyhave me on the phone, let me
tell you what the Lord did forme today.
Then we wrapped it up.
I said I'll be there in an hour.
When I got to church, shechurch.
She says, hey, I kind of toldsister flow a little bit and

(01:38:35):
she's kind of going in thedirection of miracles tonight
and she would like you to speaka word of faith and, um, maybe
even tell your testimony.
But the, the, the.
It just didn't work out thatway, so I just let whatever she
directed me.

Speaker 2 (01:38:51):
She was in the holy ghost and she did ask you to
share your testimony.
I thought so after she did, butI think you were in the Holy
Ghost and you just got excited.

Speaker 3 (01:39:00):
She did.
I thought about that.
I think I was radical andexcited, but that's just how you
feel when God just doessomething amazing.
I just felt to just speak.
I literally felt like anybodywho needs prayer.
I'm going to pray for you andI'm not just going to do it, I'm
going to it's because I trulybelieve that I knew that the

(01:39:20):
lord had what?
he did for me so, but she didgive me a word after and she
said I don't know if you know,but god imparted something today
and you were able to impart it.
And that's what it's about.
It's not about me or you.
It's about his work.
Yeah.
And what he's doing.

(01:39:41):
Right.
And moving forward in thekingdom and I thank God that he
would love me enough thatthrough all that I've been
through yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:39:51):
To use you in such a beautiful way.
So what a mighty God that we'vebeen through.
Yeah, it doesn't use you insuch a beautiful way.

Speaker 3 (01:39:55):
So what a mighty God that we serve.
Amazing, he's amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:40:00):
Yeah, he really empties us out of ourself to
fill us more.
Um, I was going to ask yousomething else about your
ministry, so that's what it was.
Do you like?
Do you feel like?

(01:40:21):
Um, the Lord is calling you tolike the healing gifts, to be
able to pray for the sick, oryou know, because we have a lot
of people in the church that aredealing with physical ailments.
Yours was very scientificallyproven, if you will, but I do

(01:40:43):
think a lot of things in ourphysical health are
scientifically proven, butspiritual in nature.
Not everything, lot of things.
I think a lot of things are and, um, how was I gonna say just
now?
Um, but but god definitely didwork in you.

(01:41:04):
So what are you?
What are you feeling?
Led to in in all of that?
Do you know?

Speaker 3 (01:41:10):
I do.
I, I feel in the holy ghostthat god is taking us to the
next level, not just me, but thebible.
You know, I in my bible, so Iteach about oikos.
Oikos is those around you yourfamily, your friends, those that
surround you, and that's why,when you get in the presence of

(01:41:35):
people that are consecrated, italmost just like jumps on you or
you know.
Yeah, you feel it.
It's not them, it's the holyghost, it's god it's him and I
want god to do that through me,that that where I go he goes we
are the church we're supposed tobe that not the four corners

(01:41:56):
where we go.

Speaker 2 (01:41:57):
Right he goes we're supposed to do what the apostles
did.

Speaker 3 (01:42:02):
Healing right now.
Then we pray and we speak theword of faith and um.
If you need the Holy ghostright now, that we do it right
now we don't say well come tochurch.
On sunday right no let's prayright now, yeah, let's let god
do what he's gonna do and takeus to that level that I am the
church yeah and I bring with methe holy ghost because he lives

(01:42:25):
in me right and and um, where weget out of the patterns of
three songs, offering in asermon that we walk out when the
Holy Ghost tells us to walk out, and we're obedient to the word
because he told us to go prayfor so-and-so.
They're feeling God right nowand they don't need to wait till

(01:42:49):
the altar call to be healed orto have the Holy Ghost or to
have a need met right here rightnow.
I have a need met right hereright now and I'm learning in
this stage of my life isobedience, and that's tough.

Speaker 2 (01:43:01):
Yeah, I think all us backsliders.
That seems to be key, because Ithink it was a bad word.
As a kid, you know, but as anadult, obedience comes because
we love him.
Yeah, we desire to please him.
And to serve yeah yeah, rightto serve, and it's not a bad

(01:43:23):
word anymore.

Speaker 3 (01:43:26):
It's a desire of your heart, Because the world looks
at Ingo's servant serve.

Speaker 2 (01:43:30):
Right, right yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:43:32):
But what an honor to serve the king yeah, it's an
honor because, uh, there's somuch that comes with that.
Yeah, and when the lord?
It's one thing for us to trustthe lord, but now, when the lord
trusts us.
Yeah, it's a great feeling,yeah but um it's, it never stops

(01:43:55):
it's still, I still feel, themore I feel like okay, god, now,
the more I need to seek you themore I need to read your word
the more.
I need to consecrate less ofvictor and more of you, um.
And so I?
I tell people transparentlyvictor's selfish, uh, victor has

(01:44:16):
to die out yeah constantly,yeah, and I have to remind
myself it's about him and so, um, I don't know what else to say,
but I love god and I love whathe's doing, and we are the end
time church.
There's no doubt about that.
We are the end time church and,uh, we don't live in fear.

(01:44:37):
God is coming um.
I don't care if you're pre-tribor post-trib, I don't care if I
go through the tribulation orhe just raptures me.
I'm happy that he saved me forsuch a time is this me too, and
he's gonna be amazing.
Yes, we're gonna see, this issuch a time as this, me too.
It's going to be amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:44:53):
We're going to see.
This is such a wonderfulmiracle.
I mean all of your story, butthe healing piece too, because I
think that's going to encouragequite a lot of people.
God is doing all of that now,victor, I always end with this
what would you say to thebackslider who has not returned?

Speaker 3 (01:45:20):
What would you say to them?
I'm sure you've heard it manytimes that God loves you, but I
would say that you're worthy,you're worthy, you're worthy and

(01:45:40):
God will accept exactly who youare.
It doesn't matter what you'vedone, because he paid the cost.
When we don't move forward,we're telling God you didn't pay
enough.
Right, but he did right.
His precious blood was enoughand his grace is sufficient.

(01:46:01):
We don't live under the law.
We live under.
He came to fulfill the lawright and um, give god a try yes
, yes, god, yes, give God a try.
Even when you think you're notworthy or I've done too much.
This is just a small glimpse ofthe good and the bad from

(01:46:23):
Victor.
I could take you to dark places, spirits that I've seen, not
because they were attacking me,because I invited them in.
There's dark places we can allgo to in life, but then there's
a light and that's the.
Holy Ghost and that God wants toreveal to you who he is.

(01:46:46):
You're never too late.
You're never too late.
You're never too late and it'sworth it.
Yeah're never too late and, um,it's worth it.
Yeah, so worth it.

Speaker 2 (01:46:57):
It's worth it.

Speaker 3 (01:46:59):
There's nothing like him.

Speaker 2 (01:47:00):
No, what do you want to say to the parent or the
loved one of the backslider?

Speaker 3 (01:47:09):
Uh, believe, I was going to say war and fight.
But just believe, believe,speak it.
This is something that I do Now.
I speak the word of faithbefore it happened, I speak it
into existence, I speak asthough it is.
That's good and I trust and Ibelieve because the Bible says

(01:47:30):
his promises are yay and amen,and if you're sanctified and
you're righteous, you're inright standing with God.

Speaker 2 (01:47:38):
And he doesn't desire that anyone should be lost.

Speaker 3 (01:47:40):
Absolutely.
You pray it, you speak yourchild into and even if they're
grown adult, you speak them intosalvation.
That's good you tell them I'mpulling you in.
Yes.
And you could verbally tellthem I have a sister right now.
That's good.
You tell them I'm pulling youin.
Yes, and you could verballytell them I have a sister right
now.
She's always talking about herbackslid son.
I'm like you.
Just tell them.
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:47:59):
I'm going to drag you there if I have to but you're
going to be saved, yeah, and soI speak it.

Speaker 2 (01:48:04):
Yeah, that's good, that's so good, well, I really
appreciate you coming on.
That Bless me, bless me.
On Friday, I'm really excitedabout the body of christ overall
in our central valley,california, I think we're.
we're all on just the verge ofwonderful things and god's gonna

(01:48:25):
do a mighty work here, yeah, so, um, if you are a backslider or
if you know of a backslider,please share this podcast with
them.
But also, if you have a storyto tell, please reach out.
Our contact information isprobably in the description

(01:48:45):
someplace, but we would love tohear your story because we
overcome by the blood of theLamb and the word of our
testimony.
We overcome by the blood of thelamb and the word of our
testimony, and I am soencouraged by the stories I get
to hear talking to people.
So I mean, please feel free toreach out and thank you for
watching.
Really appreciate it.

(01:49:05):
God bless.

Speaker 1 (01:49:07):
Thank you.
We are so glad you joined us.
If you have a story ofredemption or have worn the
label of a backslider, we wouldlove to hear from you.
If you'd like to support ourministry, your donation will be
tax deductible.
Visit our website atkathychastaincom.

(01:49:28):
We hope you will tune in forour next episode.

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