Love, Marriage, Deliverance TRB #37 Luis & Eileen Pena

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Welcome to the Redeemed Backslider.
With your host, Kathy Chestane,Christian-based psychotherapist
and Redeemed Backslider.
This podcast is dedicated tothose who have wandered but are
ready to return to thelife-changing power of grace and
the freedom found in Jesus.

SPEAKER_03 (00:22):
Hi, welcome to the Redeemed Backslider.
I'm your host, Kathy Chastain.
I'm a Christian-basedpsychotherapist and I'm a
Redeemed Backslider.
And with me today in the studioare my friends from church,
Lewis and Eileen Pena.
And this is the first time thatI've interviewed a couple.

(00:43):
And I think their story isreally incredible.
They've been married 32 years,coming up in February.
And when you hear theirbackgrounds and you hear what
they've been through and thefact that they're still serving
God and all their children areserving God, and two of them

(01:04):
have been on this podcast, Ijust think that it really offers
hope for anyone who has a spousethat is still struggling in life
because God is in the process ofrestoration and redemption.
And there is no one too far goneand nothing too hard that God

(01:24):
doesn't see, that God doesn'tknow, and that God can't redeem.
So I know that their story willbless you today.
And so with that, we're justgoing to jump in.
We're going to hear a little bitabout each of their childhood
and background and then talkabout what life has been like as
a married couple uh in thechurch and and uh what they've

(01:47):
been through in the church.
So well, welcome to the podcast,guys.

SPEAKER_06 (01:52):
Thank you for having us.
We're glad to be here.
Yes, thank you.

SPEAKER_03 (01:54):
Thank you for having us.
It's a blessing.
Yeah, I I am um so grateful forI'm gonna cry already.
Um the the transparency of thepeople that's been willing to
come on and to share the storybecause um I say it over and
over.
We go to church with people wedon't even know.

(02:16):
And so it's been a blessing forme to get, I know you're a
powerhouse when you pray withme.
And I and I, you know, I reallyappreciate that.
And it's just so wonderful toget to know these people we've
seen for so many years and andget to see the deeper sides of
them.
So um I'm grateful and and evenmore so as I know very little

(02:39):
about you guys' testimony.
Um it just makes it just makesit so worthwhile, you know, on
Sundays and Wednesdays when weget to worship together and look
across the aisle and see, youknow, because we know we know
just a little bit more about thepeople we go to church with.
So it's a blessing to me, andI'm grateful you guys.

(03:02):
I'm really grateful that youhave made it to this point in
your life, you know.
So um, ladies first, Lewis.
So, Eileen, mostly what I knowis you got the Holy Ghost at 13.
So tell us a little bit aboutyour life growing up.

SPEAKER_06 (03:22):
So, growing up, we did not attend church.
Um, I really didn't knowanything about Jesus.
Um, my sister Valerie, shestarted visiting with my aunt,
um, apostolic church, well,Pentecostal.
Brother Um Wright used to preachat our church.
Um and his wife, and theypassed.
But he's the one who baptizedme, my mother, my sisters.

(03:45):
And um, I remember juststruggling as a teenager.
You know, my mom and dad werejust lots of things going on in
the house, and um, it was astruggle.
You know, you're 13, 14, tryingto figure out your way.
And we got baptized.
I really didn't understand, youknow, why we were doing that.
Um my sister really loved theLord.

(04:07):
She was growing to have a shewas building a relationship with
him.
Is she older than you?
She's younger than I am.
So your sister had been achurch.

SPEAKER_03 (04:15):
Yes.
And so your aunt, and this wasdown south before you guys moved
here.
So your aunt was already theconnection to an apostolic
church.

SPEAKER_06 (04:24):
Yes.
Her and my mom's brother, theywere going to an apostolic
church there.
Um, and I think we visited whenwe were children, you know, very
young, because we have picturesin front of the church.

SPEAKER_03 (04:35):
Did your mom was your mom raised in church?
No.
Her siblings just found.

SPEAKER_06 (04:39):
Yes, her siblings just found.
And then my uncle, I think hewas a um he was a minister at uh
apostolic church down south.
So we would visit when we'rekids.
Um, you know, on Sunday it wasEaster because I remember we had
hats on and these matchinglittle outfits.
And I remember those Easterservices.

(04:59):
Yeah.
So I do remember that um as amemory, but as I got a little
bit older, um, I think there waslike, you know, some stuff going
on in the news, and my mom waslike, we need to be saved, we
need to go to the church, weneed to get baptized.
And my aunt was already going tobrother um Doug Wright's church.
Um, so we went, um, we startedvisiting, and um we all got

(05:22):
baptized there.
I remember him baptizing us.
And then I just remember it waslike time to be, you know, go to
high school.
I think I was a freshman.
And um I was just reallystruggling.
My dad was a functional drugaddict and alcoholic.
You know, he worked, made money,we had a home, we normal as
normal could be.

(05:43):
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (05:43):
What you would think it'd be normal.
Yeah, my dad is.
Because you don't know anydifferent, right?
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (05:48):
Um, but obviously my my I knew something was not
right because I mean youstruggle as a teenager anyways,
trying to find yourself andfigure out life, who you are,
you know, just so many things.
And I just remember one time wewent to church and um I was
really like just going throughchanges.

(06:08):
And I remember going to umchurch, it was a maybe a
Wednesday night service, and wewent um to the altar to pray.
And I remember uh Brother Wrightpraying for me, and I got the
Holy Ghost.
It literally took me from thefront of the church to the back
of the church, and I didn't knowhow I got there.

SPEAKER_02 (06:25):
Wow.

SPEAKER_06 (06:26):
And I never forget that experience.

SPEAKER_03 (06:28):
Um so what what was that?
Were you just dancing in thespirit?

SPEAKER_06 (06:33):
Were you were you honestly could not even tell.
I just remember speaking intongues.
Yeah.
And um, I remember that reallydid something to me.
I was trying to serve God.
Um, that church did a lot ofoutreach.
So I remember as a teenagergoing from house to house, door
knocking, we would go actuallysit inside homes and uh minister
to people with the old theelders.

SPEAKER_03 (06:54):
Um I remember those days, you know, that it was life
was so different then.
It was we did Saturday outreachand visitation, and people would
drop by and visit unannouncedand and people were uh much more
welcoming, you know.

SPEAKER_06 (07:09):
They would they would uh accept you, you know,
welcome you in their home andallow you to share with them.
It's not really like thatanymore, but that is a fond
memory of mine.
Yeah.
Um and then high school started,and you know, you're in high
school, I was a freshman, and II was I didn't want to be
different than everybody else.
So I remember just kind ofstraying away.

(07:30):
And then my mom and dad gotdivorced, and we moved out here
with my grandparents.
When we moved out here, I I wasuh probably almost a sophomore
in high school.
Kind of moved around a littlebit because my grandparents
lived in Visalia, and then wemoved to Tularie, and then
that's where I met my honey.
Um you're from Tularie Lewis,yes, born and raised Tulary.

SPEAKER_01 (07:51):
Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_06 (07:52):
Yeah.
So obviously when the parentsare divorced, um, get into
divorce, there's a lot going on,you know.
My dad was down south, my momwas up north.
Um kind of take advantage ofthat as a teenager because
they're going through their ownthing trying to navigate their
lives with their childreninvolved.

SPEAKER_03 (08:10):
They're preoccupied with other things, so easy to
lose track of where the kids areand what they're doing.

SPEAKER_06 (08:15):
I think just a lot going on, you know.
Yeah, yeah.
And of course, my mom had beenbaptized and she had been filled
with the Holy Ghost and mysisters as well.
The enemy, you know, was there'ssome opportunity here.
Like I can, I can mess with thisfamily.
Right.
And and it wasn't um somethingthat was I think hard for him to

(08:36):
do because we were children, youknow, teenagers.
You're vulnerable.
Yeah.
So I think that everything elselooked better than what was
right in front of us.
Right, right.
Yeah.
So that got us involved in justa lot of different things that I
should not have been involved inas a young teenager.
Um, I think the first time thatI actually did any drugs was um

(08:58):
I was probably maybe 14.
My neighbor, her sisters um diddrugs.
And she's like, come over.
My sister, you know, they wouldsmoke cigarettes or whatever.
You know, you're a teenager, youdon't know.
You're like, okay.

SPEAKER_03 (09:12):
Um, it's so easy to say yes because it's peer
pressure and you want to fit in,and you don't really have a
gauge to know other than we'retold don't do that, right?
Right.

SPEAKER_06 (09:23):
Right.
So I think w I remember the daywe I went over there and we um
we did drugs that day.
I think it was um crystal meth.
Um I I don't think it wassomething that I really liked
because I don't remember doingit again after that.
I remember those I starteddrinking at a very young age.
Um and then when we moved here,it made it just that much easier

(09:44):
to do, I guess.
Yeah.
Um but once I met Lewis, um, wekind of did those things
together.

SPEAKER_03 (09:54):
And were you going to church all of that time?
So once you guys moved here, youweren't in church.
Okay.
But the Lord, the Lord justfilled you at an early age to
plant that in you.

SPEAKER_06 (10:09):
Yes, he did.
Because I remember when we movedhere before meeting Lewis, um,
my husband, I remember um mymom, you know, after a while,
she did go back, she went to thelighthouse.
And um we started going tochurch again.
But I mean, I was a teenager.
She's like, Well, you have to bein church.
So I would go, but I wasn't in,I wasn't, I didn't have a

(10:31):
relationship with the Lord.
Right.
I was like, okay, I'm goingbecause my mom's making me go,
but I wanted to be out on thestreets hanging out with my
friends and partying andeverything else.
So I would I would sneak out ofthe house and do all the things
that teenagers do.

SPEAKER_05 (10:45):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (10:46):
Um, I remember though, my mom would pray for us
because we'd be out and myfriends, we had it, we'd be in
one car, and the car would breakdown.
And then I'm like, why?
You know, in the back of mymind, I was thinking about the
Lord, you know, yeah, at thatyoung age.
I was like, what if, you know,God comes, like, I'm not gonna
go to heaven?
Right.
It didn't stop me, but it wasstill there in my mind.

SPEAKER_03 (11:09):
I know, I think a lot of backsliders wonder about
that, you know, because weunderstand that if we're in sin,
we're separated from God.
If God, you know, I wasn'tworried about the rapture as
much as I was worried aboutsomething happening.
Yes, you know, and then I justwould not make it.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (11:29):
So she would pray, and there was times I was like,
my mom's praying, that's why Ican't get to where I'm trying to
go.
Yeah.
Um, so she those prayers didstop a lot of things from
happening in my life, mostdefinitely.

SPEAKER_03 (11:39):
Yeah, good.
And so um, how old were you whenyou met Lewis?

SPEAKER_06 (11:44):
I was um 15.
Um I started going to um heactually I met him at my
grandmother's.
He came over with some friends.
Wow because my cousin lived withus, and um they came over and we
started talking, and then Iended up going to the same high
school as him, Tillary Western.

SPEAKER_03 (12:04):
Was your cousin male?
Female Okay, yeah.
So how did you get into the mixwith her well family?

SPEAKER_01 (12:13):
A friend of mine was, I guess, met met Eileen and
her sisters.

SPEAKER_03 (12:19):
Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 (12:20):
And her cousin.

SPEAKER_03 (12:21):
Oh, okay.
And then So it was just a girlhouse.

SPEAKER_01 (12:24):
Yeah, but he was a guy.

SPEAKER_03 (12:25):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (12:26):
So my friends.

SPEAKER_03 (12:27):
He was interested in one of them.

SPEAKER_06 (12:29):
Well, he was just a real he was a really good um
friend.
Like he's just a funnyhalf-like, he made a friend
wherever he went.
Like he was just that kind ofguy.
Okay.
So he liked hanging out with usbecause we would just, you know,
laugh and cut up and yeah.
Oh, awesome.
Yeah.
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (12:46):
And then like we were at hanging out at my other
friend's house, and I rememberwe used to drive around the
neighborhood.
At that time, they there wasthis group of guys that rented
mopeds.
And everybody thought it wascool.
You know, hey, it's really good.

SPEAKER_03 (12:59):
I remember when mopeds came out, they were cool.

SPEAKER_01 (13:02):
Literally, like some guys from Tuleri had bought
like, I don't know, maybe 20 ofthem and rented them out to to
you know, people just to drivearound the neighborhood.
So I remember my friend comingover to our other group where we
hung out, and he's like, hey,you know, I I got some friends
over here, some girls, and youknow, jumped on the back and
just went over there.

(13:22):
And he's like, Oh, let meintroduce you to them.
And that's when I met my wife,my lovely wife.
Um, I just I don't know, wesparked interest right away, I
guess you you would say.

SPEAKER_03 (13:33):
Did you guys like each other right away?
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (13:36):
I mean, yeah.
Uh yeah.
Won't get into detail, but yeah,we we that's the first time we
ever had ever met.

SPEAKER_03 (13:43):
Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 (13:44):
You know, and then from there on we just started
hanging out and talking and youknow, dating and so you so you
were how old were you?

SPEAKER_03 (13:54):
You were 15.
I was 14.

SPEAKER_01 (13:55):
Yeah, I was 14.

SPEAKER_03 (13:56):
One year younger.
You guys have been together likeall your life, 14 and 15.
That yeah, it's unheard of,especially what you guys have
been through that you have madeit for so long because you guys
are still so young.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, so okay, so I'm gonna pausethere and come to you.

(14:19):
So, what was your childhood likegrowing up?

SPEAKER_01 (14:22):
Well, I mean it it it was good.
I mean, at home.
Sorry if I get a little chokedup.
Um my parents, they wereawesome.
Um my dad, he was uhself-employed gardener.
So he was my mom would stayhome, take care of us.

(14:43):
Um I used to my dad was agardener, like I said, so I used
to work with him and um had agood childhood, I would say.
You know, I went to school andeverything, did did as best as I
could, but growing up, um, thestreet that that I grew up on,
you know, that's where my bestfriend uh I met my best friend

(15:09):
and all his brothers and familyand were gang related, you know,
into gangs.
And that's when, you know, Ideveloped like wanting to be a
part of a gang, I guess.
You know.

SPEAKER_03 (15:23):
Well you probably wanted to be a part of your
friends.

SPEAKER_01 (15:26):
My friends.

SPEAKER_03 (15:26):
And that's what they were doing.

SPEAKER_01 (15:28):
And and his older brothers, you know, and looked
up to them.
Like, hey, ain't nobody becausethey were pretty known, you
know.
Yeah.
As far as known in TularieCounty, you know, and Tularie
and I just, you know seeing themevery day, and and I mean they
were literally across the streetand wanted to be a part and
thought, like, hey, this iscool, you know.

(15:49):
I'm young, young at the time,and these guys are older than
me, like I would say they'remaybe 18, 19, and I'm probably
only like 14.
And here these guys are these,you know, tough gang members and
right.

SPEAKER_03 (16:02):
It was a good role model probably for a young boy
wanting to be macho.

SPEAKER_01 (16:06):
Yeah.
So that that's like a lot wheremy I became, you know, a a gang
member and you know.

SPEAKER_03 (16:13):
Did you go through uh initiation rights and all of
the things that we we hearabout, you know, but I haven't
really ever sat down and askedanybody what the initiations are
like.
Do you do you mind talking toabout that?

SPEAKER_01 (16:29):
Um I believe honestly, like at that time
there was like initiations asfar as like I I think I remember
it was years ago, of course, butI think I remember at that time
it was kind of more like hey,you're you know, you're gonna
get socked in the chest.
It sounds funny, but if you cansurvive these these amount of

(16:50):
hits, which I believe honestlyat at the time was you know,
like 14 hits, for in otherwords, um by this guy, you know,
you'd you'd be initiated, youknow.
It wasn't more like uh you know,you hear stories of uh people
initiation, oh you gotta shootsomebody or you gotta do this or
that.
But it was nothing, nothing likethat, you know.

SPEAKER_02 (17:12):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (17:12):
Um that was pretty much just walk them walk them in
with open arms.
I mean, like my best friend, hisbrothers were th the guys, you
know, yeah the leaders ofcertain gang, you know.
And did you have to swear anoath?
No, not not really.

SPEAKER_03 (17:30):
I mean or allegiance or anything like that?

SPEAKER_01 (17:32):
No, no.
Like I said, I mean, hisbrothers were they just knew
you.
They they knew who I was, andyou know, I just got into the
wrong situation, I guess.
You know what I mean?
Like joining joining the gang,you know.

SPEAKER_02 (17:49):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (17:49):
Getting tattoos and doing things, you know, in my my
younger teenage years, you know.
Um his brothers and cousins, ofcourse, did prison time and
they're pretty pretty known outthere, you know.

SPEAKER_02 (18:03):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (18:04):
And then um you know, like back to my dad, not
to get away from the gang part,but you know, back to my dad,
you know, like I s I mentionedhe was a functional drug addict,
owned his own lawn business.
I started to cut yards with himat a young age, and and my
cousin, um they called himPunky.
He was my d well of course, mydad's nephew, and he was older

(18:27):
than me too, but Punky also wasfrom the east side of town, you
know what I mean?
And um he influenced a lot tome, and I mean like that was my
big cousin, right?

SPEAKER_04 (18:39):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (18:39):
And introduced me into methamphetamine and stuff
like that, and you know that'sbasically where I started to do
drugs at a young age.

SPEAKER_03 (18:50):
So were you already involved in that stuff when you
met Eileen?
Or were you in the process ofkind of finding your way in
both?

SPEAKER_01 (19:00):
I would say I was ours or already into it, doing
it, you know, not not heavy, butjust kind of maybe barely
getting introduced, you knowwhat I mean?

SPEAKER_03 (19:10):
Yeah, socially.
But in gangs you were already ina game.

SPEAKER_01 (19:14):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (19:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That that was that do youremember if that was an
attraction?
The, you know, because girls areattracted to you know, bad boys,
tough guys, because it reallyrepresents well, it's a false
sense of strength, but for agirl, they don't always know

(19:35):
that.
It just feels like, oh, this isa strong guy.
And I think subconsciouslythey're looking for some
strength, you know, to come froma man.

SPEAKER_06 (19:45):
So honestly, I don't remember that being um I mean,
maybe underlying it was, youknow, if I really think back to
that time, uh, I could probablysay that was maybe a little bit
in there that draw, but um Idon't know.
I just we met and I just reallywe just really liked each other

(20:08):
and really his um family livedreally close by, like literally
there was a school between usfrom where my grandparents lived
and where he lived.
So it was you just crossed overthrough that schoolyard and you
were at his um at his house.
Wow.
Yeah.
Um so I think that we juststarted we went to the same high
school and we just startedspending so much time together.

(20:29):
We, you know, he'd walk me to myclasses, we'd go home to his
house for lunch because the highschool is right across the
street from his mom's and hismom and dad's house.
Um so I think just spending allthat time together, just hanging
out and I mean we did, you know,go with his his friends, they
would we'd go to parties andstuff like that.

(20:50):
Um we did like a lot of partyingactually at that time.
Um and I think that just we justwere connected at that time and
just um I would say it wasprobably a strong connection
because um at one point we weredating probably for like a year
and then we broke up and he wasvery upset with me and we still

(21:12):
kind of kept in contact, youknow.
What made you guys break up?
Did you break up with him?
Yeah, I did.
Well, you were mad at her,that's why I think part of it I
was hurt.
I think part of it is because umyou know, you're young, you're a
kid, you're like, where are youat?
What are you doing?
You you were used to all thatattention because I moved back
to Vicelia and he still lived inTeleri.

(21:34):
And I think that it was justlike, well, you're too busy, you
know, and I was starting highschool there and you know, just
gonna kind of start my own life,so to speak.
And he um he would come andvisit me, but I think it was
just hard.
I think it was just, you know,you're you're a kid, you don't
know.
You just like felt like you'renot you're not investing your

(21:54):
time, so okay, you know, yeah.
I think that was a big part ofit.
And you know, he was involved inwhat he was doing, and I didn't
necessarily know everything thathe was doing, you know.
So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (22:05):
So what was the gang life like for you?
You don't have to be specific ifyou don't want, but like what
did that consist of?
Because we don't know.
Um I would think back then it'sjust hang out at someone's house
and everybody parties and youknow, maybe you go do some
criminal activity on the downlow, but you know, but maybe not

(22:29):
to the degree that gang activityis now.
I don't know, maybe it was likethat.
But what do you what are yourmemories of being involved in
that?

SPEAKER_01 (22:38):
Um, you know, there there have been times where we
would fight, you know, likerival gang members and and you
know, stuff like that.
Was that all pre-planned out andkind of just basically when when
we when we ran into them andthey were like in our
neighborhood?
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (22:56):
Um it was so different back then.
Yeah, it was it was different,you know.

SPEAKER_01 (23:00):
Yeah.
Um there had been times likelike I actually I was involved
like in a in a drive-by shootingat one time.
And um I believe like the wholetime, you know, God had his hand
upon my life, the the wholetime, you know, like the whole
time just edge of protectionaround me, you know.

(23:20):
Um I was very young, and like Isaid, I during my my time, like
my teenage years, I mean I didstuff like in a short span, you
know, stuff that I could belocked up right now for life,
you know, because I had friendsthat that are locked up for life
and that are no longer with usand um been involved, you know,

(23:41):
back to that drive-by.
I believe God spared my lifethat time.
You know, a rival gang hadopened fire at a at a house we
were at.
Um a bullet barely missed myhead by two inches.

SPEAKER_04 (23:58):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (23:58):
You know, and I looked up after I heard the shot
and everything cleared.

SPEAKER_04 (24:02):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (24:02):
And seeing the bullet hole and thinking like
that was my temple, you know, myhead and I'd I'd be no longer
around, you know.
Um getting up from that scene,you know, seeing my my best
friend at the time that hisgirlfriend's baby was holding on
to her left leg and she had gotshot in her right leg all in

(24:24):
that same shooting that night,you know, and going into the
house, seeing his brother shotin right in his stomach, you
know, like I'm sitting therelike in a movie, you know what I
mean?
Yeah, right, right.
Blood everywhere, you know, itwas it was awful, you know.
It's nothing to be proud about.
Right.

(24:45):
But just thank God for forsaving me through that
situation, you know.

SPEAKER_03 (24:49):
And you were around for all of that.
You guys were together.

SPEAKER_06 (24:53):
At that point, um, I think it was a time when we were
broken up.
Yeah.
But um, of course, my mom knewhe who he was, so she I think
did you visit church with us onetime?

SPEAKER_01 (25:06):
Possibly.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure I did withwith my.

SPEAKER_06 (25:09):
And I think you even went to the altar and maybe let
them pray for you.

SPEAKER_03 (25:12):
Was he always because one thing about you,
Lewis, is you're um, you seemjoyful.
Yeah.
Like, you know, you have a agreat smile.
It's always like it just lookshappy all the time.
Um, was he always like that?
Because there there's an easeabout it.

SPEAKER_06 (25:31):
That's what I think that's what uh Jimmy to him is
he always smiled.
Even he seems happy.
Even when he would tell me, youknow, he's a part, I was like,
no, this guy can't be, you know,just because he would try to
portray that that gangsterhardness, but really he to me,
he was just this happy go-luckyguy.
Like I was like, how is thatpossible that he is a part of

(25:55):
that because it doesn't reallyfit?
Right, right, you know, yeah,right.

SPEAKER_03 (25:59):
Yeah, it doesn't fit.
No, it it doesn't.
And that's I was wondering if ifyou were always like that or if
that was new since he was alwayslike that.
The Lord has really taken over.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (26:12):
I think that he tried to hide it, yeah.
But even yeah, now that he ishas been saved and with the
Lord, it's just magnified,right?

SPEAKER_03 (26:21):
You know, because he tried to he's always supposed to
be.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (26:25):
He played he tried to play that hardness at the
time, you know, of course,around his friends.
Um, but I think it was alwaysour his dad, though, he's an
image of his dad because his dadis happy, go lucky man, he'd
give you the shirt off his back.
Yeah.
Kindest man I've ever met.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (26:43):
And you lost him recently, right?

SPEAKER_01 (26:46):
Yeah, we we lost my dad in um I would say I think
it's 2010.
Excuse me if I don't know theexact dates, it's just you know,
during that time we had a roughum six years.
I would say.

SPEAKER_07 (27:01):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (27:02):
Yeah, it was my dad, you know, um he had got
diagnosed with uh cirrhosis ofliver.

SPEAKER_02 (27:09):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (27:10):
Yeah, and we didn't, you know, at the time we didn't
know like how um I guess what amI looking for, like how quick or
how it really affected him.
You know, we just heard, oh, youknow, he's got cirrhosis of the
liver.
You know, thinking like, oh it'syou know, it's not that we could
take him to you know, put it upnorth down south somewhere to

(27:30):
get help.

SPEAKER_04 (27:31):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (27:31):
And the doctors had told us like like he had um
three months to live, and wewere like, you know, how shocked
yeah.
It's like three months, you knowwhat I mean?
That's that's not very long, youknow.
It doesn't seem possible, excuseme.
I'm just trying to get a hanky.

SPEAKER_02 (27:48):
Yeah, there's a lot of yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (27:50):
So my dad, we had lost him in 2010 or 11.
You know, that was really hardfor us.

SPEAKER_06 (27:58):
It was um like my wife said um because he had his
parents were amazing.
Yeah, they were and they stayedtogether.

SPEAKER_03 (28:07):
They did.

SPEAKER_06 (28:07):
They got they were married young too.
Um but they were very umwelcoming.
Like even when um they met me,they always were, you know, his
dad really he treated me likehis own.
Yeah.
And so did his mom, you know.
She always was very loving andkind.
Um they were just good people,you know.
They didn't they didn't have umGod in their lives, but when you

(28:33):
met them, you're like, how canthese people had love?
Yes, yeah, big time.
They did.
Yeah.
Big time.
They were big, big, big hearts.
They would help anybody in aheartbeat.
You know, they would have theywould help anyone.
Just that's just who they were.

SPEAKER_03 (28:47):
So even though your dad was a functioning drug
addict, um they made it work.
Like, how do you when you lookback and you know what you know
now, like do you do yourecognize where the addiction
was at play in the familydynamic?

(29:09):
Or do you feel like you justnever really even noticed?

SPEAKER_01 (29:15):
Well like as far as my dad's addiction?
Yeah.
I just probably you know, neverreally did notice, I guess.
You know, because I was like Isaid, I was introduced to
methamphetamine through mycousin, which was my dad's.
I probably forgot to tell you,but that was my dad's other

(29:35):
helper doing lawns.
Right, right.
And then it led into doing drugswith my with my dad and him, you
know.

SPEAKER_03 (29:43):
Yeah.
So what did that look like?
Was it because I know peoplesay, um, and I I'm not trying to
be nitty gritty about the drugsand know so much about
addiction, but um, you know,just because it affects so many
people, but um was Was it justlike for energy?
Was it for the high?

(30:04):
I mean, maybe for you as a kid,it was for the high.
But like when you were doing itwith your dad and your cousin,
what do you think theirdisposition and mentality was
around it versus what yours was?

SPEAKER_01 (30:16):
I I mean, I think, you know, because we used to be
out there cutting yards, it wasprobably for the energy that
picked me up, you know.

SPEAKER_02 (30:23):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (30:24):
And then along with that, you know, the the
drinking, just yeah, being outthere working, drinking, doing
your thing, you know?

SPEAKER_02 (30:31):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (30:32):
It was like a party for me, you know.
I was like, all right, let's go.
You know, yeah, I'm working formy dad making money, but at the
same time, I'm getting what Iwant.
What what I need, I guess, youknow.

SPEAKER_03 (30:43):
Right, right.
Do you remember, Eileen, um,when your mom and your dad
divorced, like how you feltabout them getting divorced?
Like what was that like for youand your sister?
How many sisters do you have?

SPEAKER_06 (30:59):
I have two sisters.
Okay.
Yeah.
Two sisters.
Um I think as a teenager, youreally don't understand, you
know, what's going on.

SPEAKER_03 (31:11):
Um did you miss your dad?
Did you know there wereproblems?

SPEAKER_06 (31:16):
There were lots of problems.
Um but I did miss him.
I didn't um really understand, Iguess, how things got to that
point, you know.
I mean, obviously you're a kid,you're you're not blind to
what's going on.
Um and I mean that truly istheir t story to tell.

(31:39):
Um but I think it just was hardjust not understanding, you
know, part of me wanted for herto leave.
Yeah.
You know, um, because addictionis your dad was addicted too,
right?

SPEAKER_03 (31:54):
Yes.
Addiction is so chaotic.
So for your house it wasn't,which is rare.
I mean, I'm sure there wereissues.

SPEAKER_01 (32:03):
Yeah.
Because you can't not haveissues with addiction, but yeah,
because like the main issuesthat I seen growing up as a kid
with my dad was, you know, theymy mom and dad would argue about
a certain situation, and my dadwould just be crazy, you know.
The loving man that he was, youknow, which he was.
Uh he just, you know, comes withalcohol parting.

SPEAKER_04 (32:23):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (32:23):
I don't know their situations if it was what it was
about, but seen some argumentshere and there, but not a lot.

SPEAKER_04 (32:29):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (32:29):
My dad would just rage off andgo with his friends or my
uncles, you know.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (32:34):
What was your dad like?

SPEAKER_06 (32:36):
Um, he would be, you know, they would fight a lot, a
lot of arguing.
I think that's probably why Iwanted her to go, like for us to
go.
You're a kid, you don't want tohear that or see that because
you don't understand it, youknow, and and that feeling of
wanting to run, you know, Ithink is pretty normal for a
child.
Yeah.
Um, and that's what I was.

SPEAKER_03 (32:56):
I mean, I was like, probably, to you to be out from
under all of that.

SPEAKER_06 (33:01):
I I think so.
I think that my me, myself, Ithink the the pressure and the
stress and just seeing, youknow, my mom and my sisters, I
think it was just hard.

SPEAKER_05 (33:11):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (33:11):
Um, you know, and I think that um I think my dad
knowing that I wanted you knowmy mom to leave, I think that
was probably hurtful for him.
Yeah.
Um, but I know that you know,God has a plan for everyone.
Yeah.
And even though it was aseparate plan, God still has

(33:35):
saved both of my parents.

SPEAKER_03 (33:36):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Your dad was just in church withus.
Yeah.
He's actually here in townagain.
So he is.
Well, praise God.

SPEAKER_06 (33:44):
And I would I would say during this time a lot of
healing has taken place.
And that God is so good to heal.

SPEAKER_03 (33:51):
I I really believe He doesn't leave anything
unanswered and turn.

SPEAKER_06 (33:56):
And his timing is always so perfect.
It is.
God is his plans, he amazes me.
The Lord amazes me.
Yeah.
The way he does things.
Yeah.
You know, how he orchestrateseverything.
It's just like, wow, I was atthis place and you brought me to
this place.
Yeah.
And look what the Lord has done.
You know, look what the Lord hasdone.

(34:16):
It's amazing.

SPEAKER_03 (34:17):
And people who check out of life before they get to
see, you know, you gotta livelong enough to see how God
redeems all the places, youknow, that hurt us.
Um, was he your first boyfriend?
No.
Was she your first girlfriend?

SPEAKER_01 (34:38):
No.

unknown (34:39):
Okay.

SPEAKER_03 (34:40):
Okay.
But I was but I was gonna sayserious girlfriend, yes.
It's still a beautiful thingbecause you guys did um not have
to have probably a lot ofpartners, you know, in your
young years.
And that that's really a giftand a blessing, I think, too.

(35:00):
Yes.
Oh, well, it's you're it's nevergonna make it.
You guys are in high school,it's never gonna last.
And you guys are a story thatactually did last all through
high school and into adult life.

(35:21):
So that also is beautiful.

SPEAKER_06 (35:23):
It wasn't always easy.
I could definitely say that.
Um, we when um we got pregnantwith Brianna, um I I always say
that she saved my life.

SPEAKER_04 (35:34):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (35:35):
So I want to back up before we go there.
Um so you're 15, you're 14.
Yeah.
How old were you when youstarted going back to church?
And were you guys together whenyou decided to go back to church
and live for God?

SPEAKER_06 (35:52):
I honestly did not go back to church.
I did um when I found out I waspregnant with Brianna.
Um I did for a a short time.

SPEAKER_03 (36:03):
Were you guys married at the time when you got
pregnant?
Okay.
Okay, how old were you guys?

SPEAKER_06 (36:08):
Huge 16 and I was 17.

SPEAKER_01 (36:11):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (36:12):
Oh, you were that's so young.

SPEAKER_01 (36:14):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And when she was pregnant withour daughter, I I was actually
in juvenile hall for a case thatthat uh I fell into.

SPEAKER_03 (36:26):
Wow.

SPEAKER_01 (36:27):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (36:27):
Wow.
So what did you think aboutthat?

SPEAKER_06 (36:32):
That he was locked up and I I think I was trying in
a state of disbelief.
Um for one being pregnant, Iwas, you know, 16, terrified.
I didn't want to tell my mom.
I didn't want to tell anybody.
I hid it for six months of mypregnancy.

SPEAKER_03 (36:50):
Um and what a miracle also that you didn't get
an abortion at that age.
Yes.
Because that's what so many kidsdid.
And um I have childhood friendswho did, you know.
I thank God that I never gotpregnant because I I probably
would have made that decision atthat time in my life.

(37:11):
I'm just so grateful I didn't.
But I think that's anothermiracle that at 16 you get
pregnant and you you have thebaby.
Yes.
Yeah.
And are we glad Brianne is here?

SPEAKER_06 (37:24):
Yes, my precious, my precious Joel, the Lord has
given me.
Yes.

SPEAKER_03 (37:27):
Yeah.
But so um, so when you found outhe was in juvenile hall, he
wasn't even we kind of umweren't really talking at that
point.
Um because you of what you did?

SPEAKER_06 (37:40):
Yeah, that and just a lot of other things.
Yeah.
Um, my mom was obviously prayingbecause I finally, you know,
told her that I was pregnant.
Um and my mom actually during mypregnancy um saw him at the
courthouse.
Yes.
He was going to court for hiscase.

(38:01):
And um she was praying for him.
Yeah.
She was just had been prayingfor him.
And she said, I ran I saw him.
She said, I seen him at thecourthouse with his parents.
Um I just remember her tellingthat she was telling me she was
praying for him.
And then um then his case wenttell them about your case,

(38:23):
honey.
It was a miracle, truly amiracle what the Lord did.

SPEAKER_01 (38:27):
It was during the time we were we were separated,
and you know, I was into allthis gang activity and and you
were hurt, so you're gonna justbe around.

SPEAKER_03 (38:33):
Yeah, I'm just out there like a wild child.
Yeah, yep, yep.

SPEAKER_01 (38:37):
Doing whatever, you know, going wherever, partying
and 'cause you don't care whenyou're hurt.
No.
Yeah.
I was just hanging out with thewrong crowd, you know.
My my crew I always hung aroundwith.
Um so we were at a party onenight at my friend's house.
Um I remember leaving and thenwalking down the street for some

(38:59):
reason, you know.
Of course I was intoxicated, soI don't remember clearly.
But some guys, you know, aroundthe corner saying something,
mouthing off to us or something.
And another friend of mineopened fired at those the group
of guys.
Just for mouthing off.
Just for yeah, just for randomlymouthing off.

(39:20):
You know, it was dark, wecouldn't see, but he opened
fired on him.
And then we go back to the tothe house where the party was,
and of course the cops came,arrived, and you know, you could
they do their thing, calling usout by microphone and all that.
And me like a dummy, you know, Igo out there and me and my other
friends, you know, and they toldus to get down, arrested us for
it.
So they they take us in and andI'm up for attempted murder.

SPEAKER_08 (39:44):
Wow.

SPEAKER_01 (39:44):
For this case I didn't even do, you know.
But being, you know, part of agang.

SPEAKER_04 (39:52):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (39:53):
You're gonna go down.
Yeah, you're you're gonna takethe hit for you're not gonna be
a rat, basically.

SPEAKER_03 (39:59):
Right, because I was gonna say they want you to rat
them out so that you don't haveto take the the charge.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (40:05):
Yeah.
So I end up in juvenile hall forprobably a good three months, I
would say.
And my parents, you know, wouldcome and visit and try to get me
to, you know, I was I wasbasically up to go to CYA for
life.
25 to life was what they hadgiven me.

SPEAKER_03 (40:23):
Wow.

SPEAKER_01 (40:23):
25 to life.
And my parents would tell me.

SPEAKER_03 (40:26):
So you were already sentenced.

SPEAKER_01 (40:28):
Yes, because I remember those terms saying that
you're going 25 to life andcali, you know, CYA.
Right, right.

SPEAKER_03 (40:34):
California Youth Authority.

SPEAKER_01 (40:35):
Yes.
And you know, I thought it wascool.
You know, I'm not gonna lie.
Here I am in there, like, ohman, I'm going to YA, you know.

SPEAKER_03 (40:42):
As if that's a thing that you should be proud of,
right?
Yeah, like But in the gang worldit is, right?
Because it's it's gettingbecause the prison system is so
like that's the status.

SPEAKER_01 (40:53):
You know, I'm sitting here thinking, like, I'm
going, I'm going to see.
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (40:56):
Now you're somebody.

SPEAKER_01 (40:57):
You know, I'm like those guys, you know what I
mean?
Like my my best friend'sbrothers, you know.

SPEAKER_02 (41:01):
Yeah, you're somebody.

SPEAKER_01 (41:02):
Yeah.
And um my parents, you know,going on the visits, whatever
the visits were weekends, and mymy mother just they're they're
crying, you know, like like whatare you doing?

SPEAKER_02 (41:13):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (41:13):
And at the time I was like, you know, my dad was
there, you know, he he would hewould talk, he was mad.
But my mom's all like, you needto tell him who who did it.
Like, what's what's yourproblem?
Like, I'm not ratting, mom.
That's not that's not who I am,you know.
I love you guys, and but I'mjust not I'm take I'm I'm going
to jail, you know.
Thinking like, you know, it'sgonna be cool, you know.

(41:35):
Yeah.
And you know, during all this,you know, I would try to write
Aline and try to write her, andI don't know if sh I'm sure she
received my letters, but neverreally responded.

SPEAKER_06 (41:46):
But I don't remember receiving letters.

SPEAKER_01 (41:50):
But back in my mind, you know, I mean I knew she was
pregnant and everything, havinghaving our daughter.
And there was always mymother-in-law, you know, I knew
my mother-in-law is a prayerwarrior, you know.
I thank her for that.

SPEAKER_04 (42:00):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (42:01):
Um but I don't know what happened, but I remember
there was a day that they came,you know, I don't know, with the
staff, I guess, or the juvenilestaff.
And my parents.
And they had said my uh case hadbeen dropped.

SPEAKER_02 (42:18):
Wow.

SPEAKER_01 (42:20):
So I thank, you know, my mother-in-law, my
mother-in-law for that, youknow, because I know she was
pregnant.

SPEAKER_02 (42:27):
That was God.

SPEAKER_01 (42:28):
That the the guy that did it actually came
forward.

SPEAKER_02 (42:32):
He you don't hear that either.
That doesn't happen.

SPEAKER_01 (42:36):
It came forward and said that he did it, you know.
So so the day I got out, gotreleased, um, my daughter.
My daughter got uh she was born.

SPEAKER_06 (42:48):
The day you got out?

SPEAKER_01 (42:49):
So yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (42:50):
We were being released from the hospital that
day.

SPEAKER_01 (42:52):
Yeah, so that was all all God.

SPEAKER_02 (42:54):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (42:55):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (42:56):
Wow, I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_03 (42:58):
That was a miracle.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (43:00):
Yes, it was it was a miracle.

SPEAKER_03 (43:02):
So And were you ready to take him back at that
time?

SPEAKER_06 (43:05):
It took a little while.
I would say it took about sixmonths.
Yeah.
And then that's when we um heproposed to me.
And we actually we actually hadto go to Vegas um because we had
to have our parents sign for usto get married.
Yeah his parents agreed.

SPEAKER_01 (43:21):
Yeah, yeah, we we were young.

SPEAKER_06 (43:23):
I mean and we didn't get married because we had a
baby.
I think we got married becauseall that time with each other,
yeah.
Yeah, that's so beautiful.
And so his parents signed forhim and my my dad signed for me.
My mom didn't go with us.
Yeah.
Um, but my dad signed, and we'vebeen married for 30 almost 32

(43:44):
years.

SPEAKER_01 (43:45):
32 years.

SPEAKER_06 (43:46):
Um but to God be the glory, yeah.
You know, because without him inthe middle, there is no, there's
no way, there's no other way tohave a marriage unless you have
God in the middle of it.

SPEAKER_03 (43:58):
Well, you know, you you just know that there's so
much purpose in your life whenyou look back and you can see
how he intervened in all thoseareas, you know, and started you
so young to receive the HolyGhost.
Um, and I kind of think you'rejust getting started.
I think so many of us are justreally getting started in what

(44:23):
God created us to do and to bein this life, you know.
Yeah.
Um, and who knows what that'sgonna be.
I except soul winning, that'swhat it's all about, you know.
And like I said, your wholefamily's in church.
But um, so you guys had youstarted going back to church
when you were pregnant then withBrianna or afterwards?

SPEAKER_06 (44:46):
Um during the time I was pregnant, I went back to
church and started building thatrelationship with the Lord.
And then I was And that was atLighthouse.
Yes, at the Lighthouse.
So I've been at that lighthousefor like 29 years.
Okay.
Um, so when we got married,obviously I kind of just
straight away and didn't, youknow, I didn't have that walk

(45:07):
anymore with the Lord.
And I kind of would go back andforth with God, you know, a lot.
Yeah.
I would go in and go out.
I remember um I just rememberdoing that so often.
Um, and then but I know he wasthere.

SPEAKER_03 (45:24):
Yeah.
You know.
Do you know why you would go inand go out with him?
Like, do you remember what wasgoing through your heart or your
your thoughts?

SPEAKER_06 (45:33):
Honestly, I don't, but I feel like now looking back
as an a grown adult, I feel likethere was a lot of hurt and
brokenness that just kind ofkept within you.
Yes.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (45:43):
I think that so we give in to that and look for
ways to fix that ourselves.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (45:49):
And I did that, you know, since I was a teenager.
I was constantly, you know,wanting to be intoxicated or,
you know, the next high escape.
Yeah.
That's that's what I wanted todo.
And um it wasn't until we gotmarried when Ma uh Brianna was
six months old, and she wasthere at our wedding.

(46:10):
And um, we immediately gotpregnant with my son um after we
got married.

SPEAKER_03 (46:17):
Oh, so they're only six months apart, they're 15
more than that.
Yeah, 15 months apart.
You got pregnant right away,yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (46:24):
And um, we lived in Tularie, we lived in an
apartment in Tulari, and um wewere just living life like you
know, 2021, you could buyalcohol without having to need
someone to buy it for you.
You guys were so young.
Yeah.
Wow.
Wow.
We had an apartment.
I remember having that littleapartment in Tularie, and um I

(46:46):
remember my mom, she would comeand visit, and she's like, You
need to get out of here, youneed to move to Visalia.
She says, It's time, you justneed to make that, yeah, make
that effort.

SPEAKER_03 (46:56):
When you got out, were you still a part of the
gangs then?
Yeah.
So when you guys are married,you're still a gang member.

SPEAKER_01 (47:02):
You know, yeah, still claiming what I claim.

SPEAKER_03 (47:05):
And and she wanted you guys probably out of Teleri
because of that, right?
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (47:09):
Yes.
And she prayed, she would prayand you know, for God to to move
us because we at that point whenwe were in Teleri, uh Brianna
was probably two years old,maybe three, and then my son was
already born.
Um, he was probably about one,one and a half.
Um almost two, maybe, and sheprobably was three, almost four.

(47:33):
Um, we were just, you know,living life, and I I remember,
you know, we were startedselling drugs to make extra
money.

SPEAKER_03 (47:41):
Um you then doing drugs with Lewis because you
were still doing meth.

SPEAKER_01 (47:46):
I was still still doing math.

SPEAKER_06 (47:47):
Um I wasn't doing that, no.
I was probably just drinking.
Yeah, just you know, part theparty life.
Um, but I remember seeing mykids and thinking, what are we
doing?
Like, how I don't want to livelike this.
I don't want them to see this,you know.
And I remember my mom telling meyou need to move.
So at one point I finally toldhim, I said, and we were on

(48:09):
welfare.
I mean, we had we were held andI was I just remember looking at
my my two babies thinking, whatare we doing?
What what am I doing?
You know, what is happeninghere?
Like this can't keep going onlike this.

SPEAKER_03 (48:22):
Like a moment of clarity, huh?

SPEAKER_06 (48:24):
Yes, and I know that was my mama's prayers.
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (48:28):
Of course it was, yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (48:31):
And um, so I told him, I said, I'm I'm gonna move
to Vyselia and I'm gonna leavecoming, I'm going with or
without you.

SPEAKER_03 (48:38):
Um wait, hold on.
That's such a direct way to sayit.
Did you anticipate that he wouldfight you on it?
Were you guys fighting?
Were you thinking about leavinghim?
Like what was your expectation?

SPEAKER_06 (48:53):
I just wanted to be out of Tulary.
I think I didn't really have anexpectation.

SPEAKER_03 (48:57):
You weren't gonna give him a choice.

SPEAKER_06 (48:59):
No, I think I was um in that flight mode of I'm gonna
rescue my children and myselfbefore destruction happens, you
know.
And I didn't want my children,you know, it was a moment, like
you said, my mom was praying,and that moment came where it
was like you want them to livethe life that you had lived or
all the things that you haveseen.
I was like, I don't want that,Lord.

(49:20):
I don't want, I don't want mybabies to live like that.
Yeah.
And um I think I said it withouteven thinking, yeah, not even
realizing like what could happenor that I was married, you know,
just like this is what I'mdoing.
And yeah, either you're comingor you're staying.

SPEAKER_03 (49:37):
Yeah, yeah.
I know that's that's what uhCarrie Rodriguez said when she
decided to come back to church.
She said, that she talked abouton the podcast that she told
Manuel, I'm gonna live for Godno matter what, you know.
Come, don't come, but this iswhat I'm gonna do.
And he was totally supportive,you know, but she made up her

(50:00):
mind for herself.
Sounds like exactly what you'resaying.

SPEAKER_08 (50:04):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (50:05):
Yeah.
So how did you take that?
Do you remember when thathappened?

SPEAKER_01 (50:11):
Yeah, I I remember.
I was being stubborn, I wouldsay.
I was like, you know, go aheadand go.
I was I didn't I didn't go withher at the time, honestly.
I the apartments we lived in, myparents lived a block away.
I was still in the hood, youknow.
And my friends right down thestreet.

(50:32):
I was like, oh, I'll go just godown there and party, hang out
at my friend's house.
Wow.
My cousin Punky that I mentionedlived in the apartment complex.

unknown (50:40):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (50:41):
That's where we were set.
Yeah, still partied, you know.
I was like, ah, Punky's rightthere.
My parents, they'll let me stay.
I don't remember like a timeframe as far as how long I
stayed with with her living inBicelia in another apartment.
Um, or it might have been withher mom at the time.

SPEAKER_03 (50:56):
And then so did you guys split up?
I mean, I know you you moveddifferent places, but in your
mind, do you feel like you yourmarriage was separated, or did
you feel like you guys are stilltogether, you were just gonna go
do something else?
Um, I'd have to, I meanHonestly, I think that I can't
remember.

SPEAKER_06 (51:15):
I don't think he stayed very long.
Yeah, I don't think it was likemaybe a one or two months, and
then he came.
The miracle though, when I camehere is I had no money to get an
apartment.
And I remember my mom, she'slike, We're gonna pray for God
to open the doors, and you know,she's praying.
And I remember these littleapartments I went, and I told
the lady, I have the firstmonth's rent, but I don't have

(51:37):
the deposit.
She said, That's okay, you canmake payments on that.
Yeah, wow.
So that's when I moved and I hadGod opened the door.
Yes, he did.
Yes, he did.
He was there all along.
Yeah.
Even when we didn't realize hewas there, he was there.

SPEAKER_03 (51:53):
It's beautiful to look back and see his hand you
know, yes, amen.
Orchestrating all the details.
Yes.
So you came and um and thenwhat?

SPEAKER_06 (52:05):
Um, and then I just remembered making a commitment
to the Lord, and I was gonna bein the house of God no matter
what was going on.
And um, I think I stood up andtestified about this, but I
didn't have a car.
So there was a van that wouldpick up people for church, and
there I was getting on the vanwith my babies and going to the
house of the Lord.
Wow.

(52:25):
And I made that commitment.
I was like, I'm gonna be in thehouse of the Lord no matter what
happens.
Yeah, I mean, there was times wewere fighting, we were arguing,
and I was like, I'm going to thehouse of the Lord.
And I my mom taught me, alwaysget to that altar.
Yeah.
And that's what I did.
Thank goodness for that, right?

SPEAKER_05 (52:42):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (52:42):
So I always remember that, and I would get to that
altar.
We could be bickering andfighting, but I'm like, I'm not
gonna let that stop me fromgoing to the house of the Lord.
And being there and being at thealtar, getting that strength
from the Lord, you know, andthat reassurance.
Yeah, you can make it pointright.
You can make it.
Yeah, that is.
If you trust me, you can makeit.

(53:02):
Yeah, is what the Lord wassaying.
If you trust me and be obedient,you can make it.
How old were you then?
I would say I was probably about20, 21, 22, roughly around
there.
Okay.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (53:17):
And that's that was a very mature, strong thing to
do.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (53:23):
Like I said, I wanted my babies.
I was like, God, I don't wantthem to have babies at my age.
I don't want them to see all thethings that I seen.
And unfortunately, they did seesome of those things, maybe on a
smaller scale.

SPEAKER_04 (53:36):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (53:37):
Um and they had to deal with some other things
growing up, you know, that Ididn't expect.
But, you know, the sacrifice,the struggle.
If you truly love the Lord andyou trust him and believe that
he will make that marriage workand you hang on, he can do it.

(53:58):
Yeah.
You know, this we're we're thethe proof.
Right.
Because there were so manythings in between that happened,
you know, so many, so manybattles, you know, and I would
just keep going and a prayingmama, you know, that support of
your family praying.
Yeah.
You know, my dad wasn't reallyinvolved, but my mom, that

(54:18):
praying mother that just said,I'm praying, just keep going,
just keep going.
And the support of the church,you know, so many people
praying.
Um, and I had thatdetermination.
I was like, I'm I don't wantthis for my family.
I want them to know who the Lordis.
You know, I want them to beraised in the house of the Lord.
And they were, you know, theywere teenagers and went through

(54:41):
their own struggles, but they'reserving the Lord, you know,
their families, my grandbabies,you know, after all these years.
Yes.
Yeah.
We have three beautiful childrenand seven grandchildren.
Seven.
Wow.
And we have our son-in-laws thatare our own, we call them our
own, and my daughter, you know,my daughter-in-law, and we're

(55:01):
just very blessed.
The Lord has blessed us.
Yeah.
I just am so thankful, you know,that God, He's so sovereign, so
merciful.
So, yes, he is.
Yeah.
You know, and He has a plan foryour life.
Even when you don't understandwhat's going on, He's there.
Yeah.
Because He's called you fromyour mother's womb.
Right, right.
He knows every hair on the topof whether you're serving him or

(55:23):
not, he knows those things aboutyou.
Yes, yes.
And he has his eye on us.

SPEAKER_03 (55:28):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (55:29):
Yes, he does.

SPEAKER_05 (55:29):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (55:31):
So how long was it before you went to church?
How long did you go to churchalone without without your
husband?

SPEAKER_06 (55:40):
Um, wow, it went a long time.
Yeah.
Probably like um maybe 14, 15years.

SPEAKER_01 (55:48):
Yeah, I would I would probably say somewhere
around there.
That is a long time.

SPEAKER_06 (55:52):
And it wasn't, I'm not gonna say it was easy
because it it wasn't.
It was it was hard, you know.
It was hard to keep that.
It wasn't hard for me to make itto the house of God and serve
God.
It was hard because ourrelationship would put a strain
on it.

SPEAKER_03 (56:09):
Yeah, on our marriage, yeah.
Sure.
You know, it because you'restill in the gangs and still
doing drugs.
Were you ever coming with her ordid that happen later?

SPEAKER_01 (56:19):
So so when she had left to move to Vyselia, you
know, to get her her journeygoing, you know, with with the
Lord, you know, to be on theright path.
Um, you know, I like she said, Iprobably stayed at my parents
for a couple months.
And then, you know, just beingthere by myself, lonely, you
know, one night.
You know, I was just like, likethere, like I believe, you know,

(56:41):
like I said, God has guided methe whole way.
Uh like God had spoken to me,you know, even though I wasn't
in church and I know it camefrom the Lord, you know, like
was just like like what are youdoing?
Like I'm like, you know, sittingthere intoxicated, like, what do
you mean?
What am I doing?

SPEAKER_03 (56:58):
So you've you heard the voice of the Lord.
Yes, you and you recognize thatthis is not me, this is this is
God, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (57:07):
I wasn't raised in church, right?
My parents didn't teach menothing about church, right?
You know, it was my I would saymy mother-in-law, you know, her
prayers, even though she was,you know, probably angry at me,
you know, for doing all this toher daughter and stuff, but I
believe my mother-in-law'sprayers were truly answered, you
know, because for me to get outof juvenile hall even going for

(57:30):
life and getting out, you know,and the multiple times God has
spared me, spared my life, youknow.
But that voice I just remember,you know, I was like, what are
you what are you doing, youknow?
Your your wife and your yourkids are over there and you're
you know, I mean you're here.
And I remember, like I said,intoxicated, probably crying and

(57:51):
all that, like and I just wantedto go back.
So I mean there was probablyseveral times I went back to try
to tell her, Hey, can I comehome?
you know.
And um just eventually goingback home.
I don't know if it was on thefirst shot, I don't remember
because I was always yeahdrinking or you know, on math or
something, you know, buteventually she let me back.

(58:13):
Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_06 (58:14):
I mean, I remember um he would sit through Bible
because I wanted us to have aBible study in our home.

SPEAKER_03 (58:20):
And I remember him So you were obligatory, you you
would um oblige her, but youweren't interested at that time.

SPEAKER_06 (58:28):
Right.
And he sat through a Biblestudy, but he was intoxicated.
But I was like, okay, Lord, yourword says your word does not
come back void.
Right.
So if it's gonna plant his seat,yes.
So I trusted the word of theLord, and I was like, even if
he's intoxicated, Lord, do awork, you know, continue to do a
work.
Um, I remember always askinghim, Do you want to come to

(58:50):
church with us?
You know, he would come on theholidays.

SPEAKER_01 (58:52):
Yeah.
I wouldn't go too much, but Iwould, like she said, go on the
holidays.

SPEAKER_06 (58:56):
On the holidays.
And then, you know, after awhile, you're like, I've prayed
every prayer I've I've couldpray for this man.
Like, what else is there topray?
And I remember the Lord tellingme, just start thanking me.
So on my way to work, same routeevery day, I just start thanking
him.
Thank you for saving my husband,for filling him with the Holy
Ghost, for letting him be onfire for you and sold out.

(59:18):
I mean, daily, that was myprayer for I don't know how many
years.
Yeah.
And one morning I woke up andhe's like, I'm going to church.
I was like, okay.
I didn't want to make a big dealof it.
Yeah.
I was like, okay.
And I think that day, uh,brother Don Bengato got a hold
of him and took him to the altarand he received the Holy Ghost
that day.
Yes.
Wow.
Yeah.
Wow.
How old were you?

SPEAKER_01 (59:39):
I was probably twenty nine or thirty.
No, because I had started my jobat twenty nine.
So I that that instills in mebecause I know how long I've
been at that job.
Actual sober.

SPEAKER_02 (59:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (59:51):
You know, I believe that was my turnaround.

SPEAKER_02 (59:56):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (59:56):
Um I believe I was probably about twenty seven.
28 maybe.

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:01):
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:02):
But yeah, like like she had said, you know, um I
remember going down actually Godhad been dealing with me several
times, but I don't know if thiswas the right way.
I know it's not the right way,but that was my way.
Is like I wanted to let go ofeverything first.

SPEAKER_03 (01:00:22):
You wanted to make sure that if you went you were
ready to make a uh commitment.
Yeah.
Because I think I think that'ssuch an important point.
People do understand what God isasking of them.
You know, even though God has somuch grace and and he takes
people, you know, I feel like hedoes an individual work with

(01:00:45):
them.
But it sounds like for you, youjust had this idea that, okay,
if I go to church, this is whatit's gonna cost me, and I want
to make sure I can pay thatprice.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:55):
I don't want to go to church, you know, receive the
Holy Ghost and all that, getbaptized and be, oh, I still
drink or I I still do drugs, youknow.

SPEAKER_04 (01:01:04):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:05):
So like I said, I know that's not the correct way
to do it.

SPEAKER_04 (01:01:08):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:09):
You know, but that day I remember uh God dealing
with me, and you know, I walk tothe back of the church, you
know.
Of course, everybody, when Goddeals with you and you're not
ready for, you know, yeah toreceive the gift of the Holy
Ghost or get baptized or youknow, you you run, right?
I mean, right you see it all thetime.

SPEAKER_04 (01:01:27):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:28):
So I go to the back and I remember this hand come on
me, and it's uh brother DonBengato.

SPEAKER_08 (01:01:34):
Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:34):
And I'm like, what do you, you know, what are you
doing?
He goes, let's go.
And I'm like, go where?
You know, like let's go to thefront.
We're gonna we're gonna get theHoly Ghost.
And I just remember going upthere and God dealing with me
and weeping, you know, and I'mand I'm praying, and the Spirit
of God just comes on me and I'mspeaking in another language,
where I'm like, what's going on?

(01:01:55):
Yeah.
I mean, I I know of the HolyGhost and I know what it is and
everything, but to to feel itfor your soul, to receive it
yourself, you know.
I was like amazed.

SPEAKER_04 (01:02:06):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:06):
And, you know, ever since then, I just fully
committed to God, you know,doing doing the work for him and
living for God.
And I remember being so excitedthat day because because
brother, uh his brother-in-law,uh Bloss Martinez, yeah, was
always, you know, you know howBloss is like you can you're
gonna get the Holy Ghost, youknow.
One day, one day that's howBloss talks.

(01:02:27):
One day, brother, one day, youknow, he goes, I know it.
So I believe the Martinezes wereat Disneyland or somewhere where
they were out of town.

SPEAKER_07 (01:02:35):
Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:36):
So I call him up, I get him on the phone that
service, and I'm so excited.
And um remember calling Bloss,and he's like, Lou?
I'm like, I'm like, yeah, it'sit's Lou.
He goes, What's wrong?
He goes, You got it, uh, you gotit.
And he knew like like instantly,like that I had got the Holy
Ghost.
I was so excited.

(01:02:57):
Yeah, yeah, it was a blessing.

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:59):
So nice to have those relationships that
celebrate that for you, knowingthat they genuinely love you and
care to celebrate that with you.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:09):
Because he knew right away when I had called.
That's what you were callingabout.
You got it, you got it.
And I'm like, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (01:03:16):
I want to say that um the next day, I said, we're
just gonna not go to work andjust bask in the presence of the
Lord, and we did just you feltthat peace, and yeah, the Lord
was there.
We didn't go to the world.

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:28):
Not to rush life again, you know.
That's what I told him.

SPEAKER_06 (01:03:30):
I said we need to yeah, we need to hold on to what
God has done, you know, for justfor a moment.
Yeah.
That that peace and thatquietness, that stillness of the
Lord.

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:39):
Yeah, yeah.
And I there's so many parts towhat you guys, you know, the
story, because I think what Ihear a lot um from women is, you
know, my husband is supposed tobe the spiritual leader.
How come my husband's not thespiritual leader?
You know, I want to leave himbecause he's not the spiritual

(01:04:00):
leader.
All the things that, you know,and I can see I think it's
biblical.
I feel like it starts with wivesa lot, you know, not that it
needs to be that way, but wivesare mothers and wives are are
the nurturer.
And so, you know, you you stayedyour course, you held your

(01:04:21):
ground, and he followed.
And I feel like if women couldreally grasp that, I feel like
the man always follows, justlike Adam followed Eve and ate
of the fruit, knowing it wasgonna take him to his death.
I feel like men will follow thewife because God ordained it to

(01:04:44):
be so.
You were created for him, youknow, because God created a a
woman to fill the void of a man.
And so, you know, I I justapplaud you for being able to
stay the course and make up yourmind, whether he came, whether

(01:05:04):
he didn't, your decision wasmade, because I do believe the
men will follow.
Yes, I believe that.
And you did.
Um, I want to quick ask becauseI think that the struggle with
men is very different than thelate than what women struggle

(01:05:25):
with in terms of identity andfitting in and trying to be a
man.
Could you speak to that a littlebit?
Like you were willing to leaveyour wife and your kids to stay
with the gang.
Um, have you given that muchthought as to what that was

(01:05:47):
fulfilling in you and what rolethat played in your life to
where you were willing to walkaway from what you loved and who
you loved to to hold on to thatwhat whatever it was filling,
whatever void that was fillingin you.
Have you thought about thatmuch?

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:07):
Um not really.
Um I think at the time I wasjust too wrapped up in the the
the drugs, you know.
Okay where it kind of overovertook everything, you know
what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 (01:06:22):
So it wasn't about a community of men or or it wasn't
about being they man.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:30):
They encouraged me to, you know, stay stay back,
you know what I mean?
Like like they want to be, youknow what I mean?
Like yeah, basically.

SPEAKER_03 (01:06:38):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:38):
You know, because that's like your brotherhood,
right?

SPEAKER_03 (01:06:42):
You know, and that is really supposed to be first
above everything, right?
That's part of the gangmentality.
Yeah.
I know they have a lot ofloyalty towards family and all
that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_06 (01:06:52):
You know what is an awesome miracle?
Oh, most of his friends they'rethey're serving the Lord today.
Yes.
Kidding, wow.
Yes, their wives are they theymarried women that were serving
the Lord, and they I seen one onI seen one on a video and I
said, that's him jumping for theLord.
I said, Wow, the Lord is sogood.
Wow.

(01:07:12):
I was amazed when I saw himshouting and worshiping the
Lord.
I said, that's a miracle.
Like those are just it's soamazing.
I said, can you believe that theLord brought all your friends,
like all these guys that youused to run around with?

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:27):
I would say out of the group, the friends, yeah.
I was the first to to draw awayand to to go with my family.
And I was probably the first tobe married, too, now that I
think about it.

SPEAKER_03 (01:07:38):
So when you moved to Viselia, were you then
consciously choosing to leavethat life behind?

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:44):
When I when I moved to Viselia, that's one of the
reasons why I left uh Tillary.
The only way I felt to get awayfrom the gangs was to to move to
another.

SPEAKER_03 (01:07:54):
And did they let you out easily?
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:57):
I mean, did you they were fine?
I mean they they they knew Ididn't have to, you know, how
they say things are, you know.
I didn't have to like, oh, youknow, go through this and this
to to be released, you know whatI mean?
I still had uh friendships withthem, you know what I mean?
I still still talk to some ofthem here and there, they're

(01:08:17):
still alive, some are gone.

SPEAKER_04 (01:08:19):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:08:19):
But it wasn't as hard as people make it seem, you
know what I mean?
Like but I believe the only wayfor me to to get away from the
gang affiliated part and sparemy life is to to move away and
go with my family.
Yeah, you know.
Um still carried on when I leftto Vicelia the drug part.

SPEAKER_04 (01:08:38):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:08:39):
Because I did have a drug addiction for a long time.

SPEAKER_04 (01:08:42):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:08:42):
You know, after she let me back in, you know,
there's there's several yearsthat I still did drugs, still a
functional drug addict, stilldrank without her well, I
thought her not knowing.

SPEAKER_06 (01:08:55):
Yeah.
We always know.
We always know.
You know, and he being afunctional drug addict, he did
try to really be there for thekids.
I mean, it's you're a lovingperson.
It's kind of a part of, youknow, he would coach their
baseball teams and the theyremember the you know, dad

(01:09:17):
coached us, you know, and wetried, I tried, you know, as um
a mom married to someone thatyou know was struggling um to do
my best to make it work, youknow, and somehow or another we
all go through something growingup in our homes.
Right, right.
There is no normal.
That's right.
It could be the most godliesthouse that you could think of,

(01:09:40):
and there's still gonna be asomething just because we're
people, right, you know, and notto say that God isn't able to
because he is, but it's how hehe creates us to become
overcomers and to be resilient,you know, and to be able to
trust him and know that we weare nothing and he is
everything, you know.

SPEAKER_03 (01:10:02):
If we were perfect, we wouldn't have a need for him.

SPEAKER_06 (01:10:04):
That's right.
And so it's just, you know, wetry to do our best as parents,
um even in a dysfunctional home,trying to guard them and protect
them, and you know, the world isstill out there.
Um, and they have their ownbattles, and sometimes it's hard
for them to open up to theirparents, you know, who wants to
tell their parents that theyhave an addiction or a problem.

SPEAKER_05 (01:10:26):
Right.

SPEAKER_06 (01:10:26):
And, you know, as much as we pray and and you want
to help them, you really, youknow, fasting and prayer is the
only way that comes.
There's, you know, with Mariah,there was a time that I didn't
understand what was going on,and I remember fasting and
praying, and the Lord revealedeverything, you know.
And with Bree and my son, Ithink that, you know, sometimes

(01:10:48):
it was hard to see everythingbecause I'm so trying to get to
the house of the Lord and tryingto work and do this and trying
to keep him, you know, becauseyou weren't living for God then
when in their formative years.

SPEAKER_03 (01:11:00):
Yeah.
So that adds so much stress onyou, which the children would
have felt.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (01:11:05):
So I do remember those times, you know, when I
said it wasn't easy and it washard, those were hard times.
Yeah.
But the Lord was there and he'sthe one who gave the strength
for me to be able to continue onand to keep pushing, you know,
towards him.

SPEAKER_03 (01:11:20):
Yeah, and I think that that's such a good
important point because umthere's such a misconception
about Christianity.
Well, if you're a Christian, youknow, why do you do this or this
or that, right?
How are you, how's thingschaotic at home, or how come
things are such a struggle andthey see if you know, we

(01:11:43):
stumble, we fall, we makemistakes.
Yeah, we're human.
And I think that um thedifference is you endure and you
keep going.
And even though there'smistakes, even though we hurt
our children and we we um haveregret, even in a Christian

(01:12:04):
life, you know, the consistencyof showing up and going to
church and and doing your bestto live for God is the
difference maker, I think.

SPEAKER_06 (01:12:14):
It is, you know.
And I could truly say that'swhat I did.
I just did the best that I couldfor my situation and
circumstances.
Right.
I do remember um uh PastorJeremy, he was the youth pastor
before that.
Um when Lewis got the HolyGhost.
I remember him saying, Howexciting.
I said, I am very excited.

(01:12:35):
I said, but I said, and I knowit sounds strange, but I said, I
have to readjust.
Like my yeah, you know, you liveso long one way of functioning
that I had to adjust my life andmy defense mechanisms, my
everything.
Yeah, yeah.

(01:12:56):
I said, I'm super excited.
I'm I'm so thankful.
I said, but pray for me becauseI'm the one that has to adjust
now, you know, and and um peopledon't I remember him kind of
looking at me like I neverthought about that, you know.
But that's so real, yeah.
You know, it's so real onceyou're used to living one way
for so long that you like, oh,okay, this is amazing.

(01:13:21):
Help me, Lord, to adapt.
And he does, you know, he does.
But that was one of my firstthings, like, wow, this is
amazing.
What how do we function now?
Like, how do we you becomeadapted to living one way for so
long?

SPEAKER_03 (01:13:34):
Yeah, and in the recovery world, um, when a
spouse gets sober, a lot oftimes the marriages fail.
It's it's really weird how thatworks because spouses of addicts
and alcoholics prefer theirspouse to be an addict or
alcoholic because the spousethat is not the normie um always

(01:14:00):
gets to be the good guy.
And the bad guy now, there's wecan't blame them anymore for
things.
And it's just such a um a flipof how everything functions.
And people have to find newrules, they you know, new roles,
I should say, for how theyfunction within the relationship
and in the home.

(01:14:20):
And as long as you're usingdrugs, it's easy to just blame
you.
Yeah, you know, yeah, noaccountability for you know the
fact that we yelled because youdidn't put the toilet seat down.
Yeah, right.
And we as wives, we're so guiltyof those things, you know.
Um, but I love that yourecognize that because it it is

(01:14:40):
a it's a very common thing thathappens when someone does get
sober.
The relationship stops workingand people leave, you know,
because they just don't know howto readjust.

SPEAKER_06 (01:14:53):
And I know that that was the Lord who quickened me in
that moment to think, yeah,okay, you have to, there's gonna
be some changes and I'm gonnahelp you and prepare you for
that.
Yeah.
But that was quickly one of mymy thoughts because I was like,
wow, my life is gonna bedifferent.
How do I what do I do?
Like I've I've been used toliving this way for so many

(01:15:15):
years.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:15:16):
And not that it was a bad way, but you adjust to
your life and you know, youaccept it, you learn what the
bad parts are and you ignorethem, or you just go along.
Go to sleep and start a new day.

SPEAKER_06 (01:15:31):
You know, and and the thing about it is when we
made our vows, you know, I forpeople out there, for better or
for worse, rich or poor, youknow.
Yeah, and the worst he was athis worst.
And if I would have walked awayand not did according to the
word of God, we wouldn't see allthe miracles.
My children are miracles.

(01:15:53):
Yes, those grandbabies aremiracles, we are are living
miracles.
Yes.

SPEAKER_03 (01:15:57):
I I believe that a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_06 (01:15:59):
And you know, it's tough when you're going through
hardship in marriage, yeah, youknow, and don't know, don't know
who to go to to ask or areembarrassed, you know, but no
marriage is perfect, and youhave to really get a hold of the
Lord, you know, and ask him tohelp you.
I mean, you truly seek his faceand tell him, ask him how to

(01:16:21):
navigate through your marriageand to work it out.

SPEAKER_03 (01:16:24):
And it would have been easy for you to judge him.
It would have been easy for youto be self-righteous.
And um yeah.
Do you feel like you struggledwith that?

SPEAKER_06 (01:16:36):
I know that a lot of times through our marriage, yes,
I did.
And I remember saying, I thinkI've told him before, um, before
he was sober and he received theHoly Ghost and built that
relationship that he was luckythat I love the Lord because if
it wasn't for him, I mean, I'mnot, I wasn't.
If you're not being a Christianand living to the word of God,

(01:16:59):
you feel like I don't have anobligation to you.
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (01:17:01):
But because I was living for the Lord, the
scripture was holding you in thein the relationship.

SPEAKER_06 (01:17:08):
Yeah, yeah.
Because I'm like, Lord, I Idon't want to to disobey your
word.
I want to be obedient to theword of God.
I want to see, you know, theword of God says obedience is
better than sacrifice.
Yeah, so you probably wereresentful a lot.
Yeah, I just remember I doremember throwing that at times.

(01:17:29):
I mean, obviously, I don'tanymore.
We were so young, I would belike nothing but the grace of
the Lord.
And it is the grace of God thatwe made it, you know, this far.
It really all glory to himbecause without him, there's no
way we would have made it.
Right.
Because if, like I said, if Iwasn't living for the Lord, if I
didn't have that relationshipwith the Lord, I would have

(01:17:49):
walked away.

SPEAKER_05 (01:17:50):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (01:17:51):
And I'm just being very easy, just being very
transparent right now.
You know, if you're not livingfor the Lord, it's easy.

SPEAKER_03 (01:17:57):
It's so easy to walk away.
Even when you are living for theLord, you feel justified.
Oh, they're a drug addict, youknow.

SPEAKER_06 (01:18:04):
I mean, but the word of God doesn't say, oh, because
he's doing this or doing that,you can, you know, you can do
this or do that.
No, the word of God is the wordof God.

SPEAKER_03 (01:18:13):
Right.
And I think the difference withyou guys is uh you were still
showing up in the relationship,you know.
I think some people don't showup in the relationship and they
they leave the relationship eventhough their body's in the
relationship.
They're having affairs,cheating, yes, you know, doing

(01:18:33):
all kinds of other dirt that shshouldn't be done.
The the ones that make it iswhen you still keep trying to be
in the relationship, which youare doing.
Yes.
So so that's huge.
Um I was gonna ask yousomething, Lewis, about what was
your walking out process?
So you come to church, you getfilled with the Holy Ghost, but

(01:18:54):
you're a drug addict.
So did God did God remove theaddiction immediately?
Okay.
So you're craving for it, you'rebecause I know that he does do
that sometimes, and sometimes hedoesn't.
So God just took that addictionfrom you right away.
You were no longer dependent.

(01:19:17):
Did you did your mind thinkabout it?
Did you crave it?

SPEAKER_01 (01:19:21):
I I never really craved it anymore.
I want to say God delivered mein that moment.
In that moment.
But if I could just backtrack alittle bit, because I feel like
it's important to somebody outthere, maybe.
Um one of my really lastexperiences as far as like like
knowing that God had his handupon me the whole time, you

(01:19:42):
know, in several situations.
Um working at a a foundry inExeter, you know, is where I
work, is still on drugs and allthat.
But I remember it was like atime uh I did some cocaine um
that I know God hundred 100% wasthere for me because I remember
um about to OD and my heart justYou wait, wait, wait.

SPEAKER_03 (01:20:09):
You were not purposely trying to OD, but you
felt like you were about to O D,like you were gonna die.
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (01:20:16):
And that's one part of my testimony, you know, that
I I really like to share and letpeople know, you know.
But I remember working andfunctional drug addict doing
some cocaine, and my heart justlike about to burst.
I mean, I'm I'm literally Iremember the guys were saying,

(01:20:36):
like, oh, this is some peerstuff, you know what I mean?
And yeah, me, you know, beinghooked on drugs anyways.
I didn't care.
I'm like, oh, it's probablybetter.
You know, so I remember at thatmoment just operating uh one of
the machines because I was amachine operator and my heart
I've never felt that likeliterally about to thumping so

(01:20:57):
hard, and and I knew at thattime that you're going down, you
know what I mean?
Wow and talking, my supervisorwalks up and we have uh in the
foundry we have a we wore wore adust mask, and I remember just
you know, everything getting sonumb in my mouth and everything
where I couldn't speak, throatdry and talking to him real

(01:21:21):
quick, but probably just like ablank, and then you know he was
gone, and I just remember likekind of blacking out, going in
and out, and my heart just Icould I could feel it like a
drum and I remember praying sohard to God.

SPEAKER_03 (01:21:35):
You thought you were gonna die.

SPEAKER_01 (01:21:36):
I thought I was gonna die.
Yeah, I remember praying so hardthat day, praying so hard, like
Lord, please do not take me atthis time, you know.
Don't let me die like this.
I have a family, and um Godspared me, you know.

SPEAKER_03 (01:21:53):
Yeah, yeah, and you this was before you got in
church.

SPEAKER_01 (01:21:57):
Yes, yes.
I just felt like I needed toshare that, yeah, yeah.
But God spared my spared me.
Like everything just came back.

SPEAKER_03 (01:22:04):
You were talking to him at times, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:22:07):
I knew I knew God through through my wife and
through attending church, right?
And through my mother-in-law,you know, always instilling it
in me, you know, which I thankher today for that, because look
where I'm at now.

SPEAKER_04 (01:22:17):
Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 (01:22:18):
Um, but I remember going through that part of
dying, you know, just like Iknew like that you're done.
You the you you drew the lineand praying to God and I
remember, you know, I wascrying, but I was all numbed up,
Like just and instantly it likecame back.
You know, I felt like you know,just God, you know what I mean?

(01:22:39):
Like gave me all my air, all myheart came back to normal.
Being able to make it down thehallway, up the stairs, barely,
barely getting up there.
I remember going to the sink,you know what I mean, and just
like getting water andeverything, you know, I had to
just you know stay there, youknow what I mean?
Because nobody knew what I wasgoing through.
But God's sparing me my liferight there at that time.

SPEAKER_03 (01:23:02):
And those are moments that would be, you know,
only you really knew what washappening on the inside with you
and God.

SPEAKER_01 (01:23:11):
But I remember like that was one of my final straws.
So I would say, you know, like,God, I'm I'm ready to serve you.
You know, I'm not you you sparedme from this.
You you heard my prayers, youanswered, you know what I mean?
Yeah, like this is it.
And then that's you know,eventually when I was probably
basically pretty close to done,just like yeah, like God, you

(01:23:32):
you saved me how many timesalready?
Like, yeah, that doesn't justhappen, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 (01:23:37):
Right, right, right.
And I guess you would haveshared that with her.

SPEAKER_01 (01:23:40):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, she she knows.
Like, I that literally was atrue, true awakening call for
me.
Like, yeah, like you're done,dude.
You can't do no more, you knowwhat I mean?

SPEAKER_03 (01:23:50):
Like, so when you got the Holy Ghost and came into
church, you never looked back,you've been serving.

SPEAKER_01 (01:23:56):
I honestly I never looked back.
I was just so excited living forGod, being saved, you know.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:24:03):
Between tests.

SPEAKER_01 (01:24:11):
14 years being on methamphetamine, you know,
working functional drug addict.
But I have to say, like, thatwas the final straw for me.
Like deathbed, you know.
I didn't know if God was gonnasave me or not.

SPEAKER_02 (01:24:23):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:24:24):
And I just remember praying, you know, I got my
babies, I got my wife.
You know, I I can't they can'tbe at my dad's funeral, you
know, knowing my dad, you know.

SPEAKER_02 (01:24:33):
Yeah, but yeah, wow.

SPEAKER_01 (01:24:35):
That was like a true awakening right there and for
me.

SPEAKER_06 (01:24:38):
Yeah, but and the Lord saved him before his mom
and dad passed, and I believethat that timing of the Lord,
you know, because so that hewouldn't suffer the heartache.
That he would make it, yeah,that he would make it through
that.

SPEAKER_03 (01:24:53):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (01:24:53):
Because I don't think I I tell him I don't think
he would have made it.
Survived it.
No.

SPEAKER_01 (01:24:58):
Yeah.
That that was a rough like Isaid.

SPEAKER_03 (01:25:00):
That's a really good point.

SPEAKER_01 (01:25:02):
Rough six years right there for for our family.

SPEAKER_03 (01:25:05):
Who who went first?
Your mom or dad?

SPEAKER_01 (01:25:08):
My father, he had got cirrhosis of the liver, you
know, and like I said, thedoctor said three months, and it
was literally three months welost him, and that was a big uh
impact to our family.
Like, you know, my kids talkabout him, and he was awesome,
you know.

SPEAKER_03 (01:25:22):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Lewis talked about him.
Yeah.
He still cries about, you know.

SPEAKER_01 (01:25:27):
Yeah, because my dad, uh, he had a he had a big
heart, you know what I mean?
Like a functional drug addict,but he he would do whatever for
his grandkids for his family,you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 (01:25:36):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:25:37):
You know, so when we lost him, it was tough, you
know.
And like my wife said, like, Idon't think I would have made
it, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_06 (01:25:43):
Like I never once that wasn't for the Lord, yeah.
Yeah, definitely.
Yeah.
I don't know.
I think about it, I'm like, Idon't know what would have
happened if he wasn't servingthe Lord, how we would have
survived because that was atough time.
I mean, with a year later, hismom passed, and then two two
years later, they were it was mymom.

(01:26:04):
And then your brother.

SPEAKER_01 (01:26:04):
And then two years later after that, maybe a year
and a half to my baby brother,27.
So you talk about like nogrieving time, no like it's just
boom, boom, boom, you know.
And I'm like, you know, therewas times like where I
questioned God, you know what Imean?
Like, why's happening?
Like, what's what's going on?
I prayed to you, you know, youdidn't answer, you know what I

(01:26:26):
mean?
It's just stuff that goesthrough you, yeah, you know,
through your head, you know.

SPEAKER_06 (01:26:31):
His mom, though, did get baptized and filled with the
Holy Ghost.
Yeah, wow, praise the Lord.
So did his brother.
Yeah, and during that time, likebefore they passed out, yeah.
Praise the Lord.

SPEAKER_01 (01:26:42):
My dad, unfortunately, didn't.
You know, my mom started to cometo church with us, and my dad's
my dad was still alive.
He was very angry about it.
Yeah, and that she got baptized,yeah.
That she got baptized, and me asa Christian, you know, living
for God, I'm like, this is thebest thing ever, you know?
Right, right.
Like, do you not see, or maybehe didn't know, but what your

(01:27:03):
son had been spared from, youknow what I mean?
Like, God did that.

SPEAKER_04 (01:27:07):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (01:27:08):
And here you are, mad, you know, I'm thinking in
my head, like that mom's gettingbaptized.

SPEAKER_03 (01:27:12):
Yeah.
You know, did you share any ofthose things with my dad
wouldn't listen?

SPEAKER_01 (01:27:16):
Yeah, he was very stubborn, didn't want to.
Good guy, but very stubborn.
I remember I think the day shemight have got baptized, like he
was literally trying to go downthere and stop it and stop it.
But a lot of the times when wewould pray with her and stuff,
like, oh no, you're you know,you're not going to church.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:27:33):
Like so he had a very strong belief against it.

SPEAKER_01 (01:27:36):
Yeah, I mean, he like he grew up like Catholic,
but yeah, not you know howCatholics are.
I mean, you know, they just dotheir thing, you know.
I don't want to get into theirdetail, but right.

SPEAKER_06 (01:27:47):
But but the amazing thing is God saved him and
before his his mom and hisbrother.

SPEAKER_03 (01:27:54):
Yeah, that God saved them too, right?
That gives you so much peace.
Yes, yes, it is.
It really allows us to let goand accept, you know.

SPEAKER_01 (01:28:03):
Yeah, yeah.
That my my mom and my brotherwere able to get baptized before
they passed away, filled withthe Holy Ghost.

SPEAKER_03 (01:28:11):
So, how did you guys feel listening to Brianna's
testimony and listening to Pops?
Like, let's start with Brianna,because uh, for those of you
listening, their daughter, theiroldest Brianna, shared her
testimony.
Hers is called um somethingabout the P word.

(01:28:33):
Yeah, something about the Pword.
I can't remember what episode.
Um, but um, but this is theiroldest daughter, and um and it
and she talks about what shewent through because she did
witness a lot and see a lot andfelt a lot.
Your kids are very sensitive intheir in their emotions and
their spirit.

(01:28:53):
So, how did you guys feelwatching her give her testimony
on the podcast?

SPEAKER_06 (01:29:00):
Um, I was I'm very proud of her.
Um, when she was going throughthat time, um, I knew something
was wrong.
I didn't know what.
But I told her, I said, baby, ifyou can't talk to me, you gotta
seek help from somebody.
If you can't talk to I I I ifyou can't tell me, please,

(01:29:21):
please reach out to somebody.
And um, you know, that's a hardthing as a mom, knowing your
kid's struggling.
Yeah.
And not being able to help them.
Yes.
And I don't know why.
Maybe I I I I don't know.
I didn't know what the strugglewas.
Um, a lot of you know, I waspraying and a lot of things came
to me, but that never reallycame to me.

(01:29:44):
Um so I'm just thankful that theLord heard our prayers and heard
her plea and her cry.

SPEAKER_04 (01:29:53):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (01:29:54):
And he pulled her out of that because I remember
watching her at home, thestruggle.
What did you notice as a mom?
Just she um kind of just pulledaway, you know.
It was true, and you couldtotally see it.
Um, especially after theirgrandparents passed, you could
really see um it was just it wasso there was just so much going

(01:30:18):
on.
I mean, yeah, literally his dadpassed and my grandmother passed
nine days later, you know.
We were just like in a state ofThat's a lot, yeah.
Yeah, and then you know, afterhis um mom passed, his brother
passed.
Well, after his brother passed,I was diagnosed with the they
found a tumor, a canceroustumor.

SPEAKER_03 (01:30:37):
Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_06 (01:30:38):
So he didn't get time.

SPEAKER_03 (01:30:39):
It was just like boom, boom, boom for several
years.
You said six, right?

SPEAKER_06 (01:30:44):
Yeah, and everyone was trying to, I think that's a
lot of navigate it and grasp itand deal with their emotions and
feelings.
You know, you have a husbandthat's a lot of crime that's
struggling, a daughter that'sabout to graduate.
You know, just it was so manythings.

SPEAKER_05 (01:30:58):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (01:30:58):
And I just remember saying, Lord, you're the only
one that could take us throughthis and help us.
And you know, um I'm justthankful.
I'm thankful that Brianna wasable to to sit speak it out loud
to someone and that she didn'tgive up.
Yeah, you know, and that she Iknow she loves the Lord.

(01:31:19):
She's loved her him for herwhole her whole life, you know,
she has a love for God.

SPEAKER_03 (01:31:26):
Right.
I think that that's such acommon theme, is that you know,
she did, and speaking of her hertestimony, she did love the Lord
through the whole thing, butwe're wounded and our wounds you
know, make us so much moresusceptible to the voice of the
accuser and and the need toescape the pain, which is all

(01:31:52):
the things we shouldn't bedoing.
So, um, but yeah, the God neverlets us go.
What did you notice?
Did you notice her struggle?
Or were you just in your ownworld?

SPEAKER_01 (01:32:06):
I mean I was kind of like in my own world too, you
know what I mean, and all thegrieving and all that, and I
mean I probably should havenoticed, and I, you know, just
didn't really notice.
I'm not saying because mydaughter's a female and and
that's my wife's area, you know,with our daughter, but I'm just

(01:32:29):
so thankful that she was able toget that out, you know what I
mean, and and be delivered fromall that, you know, because it
takes takes a lot to to get thehelp and seek the help of the
Lord, you know, for through allthat.

SPEAKER_03 (01:32:42):
Yeah, and I felt like it was such a um like
pornography for a girl at thatage is not the norm, you know,
and I thought, you know, I'm Iinterested is probably the wrong
word, but I'm I'm always verycurious as how the enemy attacks

(01:33:04):
people to like what is like whythis attack, why this attack,
what where did that come from?

SPEAKER_06 (01:33:11):
Because you know I you know, we talked about
generational curses, and youknow, I want to be the one to
break those curses of thealcoholism, the drugs, you know,
right, um teenage pregnancy.
And you never you never think topray that one, you know, because
we don't know.

(01:33:32):
We don't and we don't thinkabout it.
Is that a general is that agenerational thing, you know,
that you know, it back in thedays, you know, the old days,
you know, you would find Playboybooks, those type of things.
So it could it could be one ofthose things that is something
that you don't automaticallythink to pray for as a
generational curse.

(01:33:52):
You know, I pray for all theother things, but I never
thought to pray for that.

SPEAKER_03 (01:33:56):
Well, there was also a spirit behind it, and so you
know, as where does that spiritcome from here?
Yeah, there's always like umthere's an open door someplace
and she didn't really know whatdrew her into that kind of a
curiosity.
Oh, I think I think she she sawit someplace on someone's screen

(01:34:19):
or I thought she said that shesaw it somewhere.
Yeah, she saw it somewhere andshe was curious about it.

SPEAKER_06 (01:34:24):
Yeah.
But so so I mean, you you prayall these prayers to protect
your children, and that's why Isay there's always a something.
Yeah, you know, you don't wantthere to be a something, but now
she's it's just you know, we'rehumans and life happens, and I'm
very proud of the woman she is.
Yes, mother, the wife.

(01:34:44):
Wonderful, yeah.
Yes, and she's writing a bookabout her.
Yes.
She's very uh even during thosetimes, you know, she I know I
remember I have video recordingsof her um speaking at youth
services, you know, messages,and she wrote a song, you know,
her cousin sang it.
Um, just so many things that youwould never think that that was

(01:35:05):
such an internal battle, youknow.
And I just we suffer violentlyas a parent, and you think, I
wish I could have done somethingto help you.

SPEAKER_03 (01:35:14):
Right, right.
Well, God placed other people inher life during that time
because you guys had your handsfull.
And then how did you guys feelwhen when Pops recently shared
his like as parents?
How do you feel seeing yourchildren?

SPEAKER_01 (01:35:32):
I was super excited for him, you know, that he was
able to be delivered from whathe was wrapped up in and being
able to get that out there, youknow, yeah, on the air,
basically, you know.

SPEAKER_03 (01:35:43):
I'm very I'm very proud of it.
Yeah, it's hard.
It's it's hard to talk about.
Yeah, you know, there's somepeople, you know, that still
haven't shared their testimony.
And I remember Brother Mahaneysaid when when I uh interviewed
him, he said there's that God isstill really healing him from

(01:36:06):
shame, that there are somethings that still he's ashamed
of, you know.
And I know that others have saidthat too.
And so it is a very hard thing,even though you know it doesn't
have a hold on you, right?
It's still um, you know, theenemy is just such an accuser

(01:36:26):
and such a liar.

SPEAKER_06 (01:36:28):
I'm just so thankful that they are were able to speak
that and be free.
Um seeing their picture, likeeven pops, I was like, wow, you
could just see the difference inthem.

SPEAKER_03 (01:36:41):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (01:36:42):
The Holy Ghost, the the the light of the Lord just
shining through him.
I was like, you could see thefreedom and the liberty.
Yeah, yeah.
I'm so thankful for that becausethose are your prayers as a
mother, you know.
Keep my children, make your faceshine.

SPEAKER_03 (01:36:57):
I love that as parents, we know the mistakes
we've made, right?
We know when we were not there,not because we didn't want to
be, not because we didn't lovethem, but just because like
we're wounded in ourselves andthe world is falling apart in
our own lives, you know, thatand and I know the enemy comes
against parents in that way too,you know.

SPEAKER_06 (01:37:19):
So I've I I myself I've taken the time before to
apologize to them, you know.
I'm sorry if I wasn't alwaysavailable to you or that I hurt
you, or whatever it may havebeen, you know, because that's
the only way forgiveness comes,you know, is just like
repentance, you know, that's theonly way that forgiveness comes.

(01:37:40):
That's the only way freedomcomes, you know, true freedom
and the joy of the Lord is rightby doing those things.
And and I feel like they've donethat, you know.
Yeah.
And I'm just thankful for whatGod has done.
I always say, look what the Lordhas done.
Yeah, look what the Lord hasdone.

SPEAKER_03 (01:37:57):
And you know, with Mariah, her testimony, which I
think is beautiful, is she juststayed the course.
She married a good Christianguy.
Um, I mean, she she's just livedfor God, and from what I know,
hasn't really deviated from thatpath.

SPEAKER_06 (01:38:20):
She there was a time I just remember um I pulled her
from high school for a while.
She took a year from high schoolon a phone.
And I believe that during thattime I I would make her go to
prayer.
I said, We're going to prayer inthe morning, you're going with
me.
And the Lord did a work duringthat time.
And that is truly her testimonyto tell.
But from a parent's perspective,the Lord was in the middle of

(01:38:43):
that.
Yeah.
You know, and I was like, Idon't want to lose another one
to something, you know.
And not that they were lost.
My my daughter or my sister.

SPEAKER_03 (01:38:53):
Just protect them from the the influence of the
world, mostly the influence ofthe adversary who comes to take
art.
Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_06 (01:39:03):
But seeing them was very, very amazing.
I'm very proud of them.
I know it took that takes a lot,you know, to put it out there,
you know.

SPEAKER_03 (01:39:14):
It does.
And you know, all of yourchildren serving the Lord with
their families coming to thesame church, worshiping
together.
That is such a beautiful thing.
Yeah.
Um, so what do you I'm gonna askeach of you this?
What do you think women need toknow?

(01:39:36):
Um we have some people that weknow of coming to church without
their spouse, and we also, Imean, you know, there's a lot of
single women out there.
And I mean, across acrossChristianity, there's women that
go to church without theirspouse, and they long for their
husband to come.

(01:39:56):
They long for their husband tobe saved.
Um, what do you think would behelpful for that woman to know
from where you've been and whatyou lived through?

SPEAKER_06 (01:40:10):
I think that you have to get that determination
to say, no matter what comes, nomatter what goes, I'm gonna stay
the course.
And know that it's not easy.
And you know, um when you whenyou read the word and it talks
about that woman in Proverbs,that's what we are, you know,

(01:40:33):
even when it's hard, right?
When they're not where they'resupposed to be.
Yeah, if you keep pushing, Godwill bring you through.
Yeah.
And look at what the Lord hasdone in my family.
I'm a I'm a testimony of whatGod's goodness and mercy and
grace has done, and for justholding on and get yourself some

(01:40:54):
women that pray with you thatyou can rely on that you can
call.

SPEAKER_03 (01:40:59):
Right.
Don't do it alone and don't doit in secret because that's what
enemy is.

SPEAKER_06 (01:41:04):
And I had that.
I had, you know, I may not havehad a lot of, I know all my
friends in church were praying,you know.
I may not have always sharedwith them what was going on, but
I know in the spirit they knewand they will pray.
But my sisters, you know, Icould confide in them.
You have to be able to sharewith someone.
Yeah because if not, it's sohard to get clarity and the

(01:41:27):
enemy runs with those thoughts,you know.
And you need to take it to theLord and find someone you can
confide in and trust and thatwill pray with you.
You know, I have people that Ican call and be like, I have a
need right now.
Like, I need you to pray.
And sometimes they don't need toknow everything, right?
And just maybe a few words, andI know they're praying and I can

(01:41:48):
feel those prayers.
Right.
And don't expect perfection fromyourself because we're not
perfect.
Right.
Um, there's times that we fail,you know, even in our marriage
when we're angry and we go tothe house of the Lord.
Go to the house of the Lord.
He didn't say because you had afight, you can't go to the house
of the Lord.
Right.
You know, it doesn't say that inhis word because he's a

(01:42:09):
sovereign, merciful God.
You know, when you are fightingand bickering or don't know what
to do, get to the house of theLord.
Stay that course because whenyou get to the house of the
Lord, that's where your strengthcomes.
Yeah.
It comes in your prayer room,don't get me wrong.
It comes from the word of God,reading it.
Stay in those things.

SPEAKER_03 (01:42:25):
It comes through all those places.

SPEAKER_06 (01:42:28):
But I you draw strength from the house of the
Lord.

SPEAKER_03 (01:42:31):
Yeah.
My last guest said something I'dnever thought of before.
And he said, you know, that theblood is flowing through the
body, yeah, and church is thebody of Christ, you know, and so
the the blood of God, the bloodof Jesus is flowing when we go
to church and we gather.
And I just thought that was sowonderful because it is more,

(01:42:54):
there's more happening than justthe fact that you punched a card
and went to church, you know,checked it off your list.
There's so much more happeningin the spirit and just in
community.
Yes.
Because it's it is the body.
It is.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (01:43:09):
So that's and you need the body.
You you know, you think I'mstruggling, no one understands.
They don't have to understand.
They know, they'll pray for you,they'll hold you up in prayer.

SPEAKER_02 (01:43:18):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (01:43:18):
You know, trust them, trust the body of Christ
to help you and go through yourseasons of life because they are
there.
You know, the God puts themthere for a reason.
Right.
Um, and puts that body togetherto carry each other.
You know, when you're when weare weak, he is strong and he
puts those people in there thatare strong at the time to help
you, right.

(01:43:39):
To get to that next step in yourlife.

SPEAKER_03 (01:43:42):
Right.
Um, and it can come from themost unsuspecting of sources,
you know, which is also such abeautiful thing when you're
like, you know, just take themby surprise.

SPEAKER_06 (01:43:53):
Yes, definitely.

SPEAKER_03 (01:43:55):
So what, Lewis, what do you think?
So you are the men's uh leaderat our church, and um what what
do you think men are in need ofin this hour with with their
families, with their walk withGod, um with their own identity?

(01:44:17):
What do you what do you thinkmen are struggling with?
What do you think they'reneeding?
And w where do you see men whatdo you see God calling men to?
What's your burden?

SPEAKER_01 (01:44:29):
Well I see God, you know, like like they said, like
for years women have been theprayer royals, you know.

SPEAKER_03 (01:44:38):
Yeah, the mothers birthing all these.

SPEAKER_01 (01:44:41):
Yes, yeah, yes, and I believe it's time for us men,
you know, as leaders of ourhomes to to step up to the
plate, you know, and be prayerwarriors and you know, up uplift
each other, you know, have moreprayer meetings.
Um because God called us, youknow, to to lead our families,
Or to lead our families, they'llthey'll follow, you know.

(01:45:03):
We have children, we have wivesthat, you know, they're tired,
you know, for for good reason.
For years they've, you know, Imean I I witness it at at my own
church, you know.
For years it's been ladiesalways, you know, just praying
and prayer, you know, till thevery end, you know, the wee
hours of the morning, the weehours of the night.

(01:45:23):
But I just would like toencourage us as men, you know,
and me, myself as a men'sleader, to for myself and for
them just to, you know, digdeeper, help each other, you
know.
Men are real prideful, you know.
We we think like, oh, I can'tcall my brother, or you know,
that's that's uh a pridefulthing, you know.

SPEAKER_03 (01:45:44):
Um I just You don't want to show weakness.
Don't yeah, men don't like toshow that vulnerability.

SPEAKER_01 (01:45:50):
You don't you don't like to pick up that phone and
be like, hey bro, I need prayer,yeah, or I need help in this.
But if we just get together andas one, you know, and and help
each other, um, I believe Godwill will um turn us around, you
know, let us be the meters we'recalled to be.

SPEAKER_03 (01:46:06):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:46:07):
You know.

SPEAKER_03 (01:46:08):
Yeah.
Where do you think the struggleis for men?
I mean, you can look around.
Um what do you what do you thinkmen really struggle with uh in
in living as a Christian?
What do you think they strugglewith being a husband?
Um I think it it might be harderto be a husband than it is to be

(01:46:30):
a dad, because you know, we seethe woman sees the man in all of
their themselves, you know, andall the weakness and all the
strength, and I think it's umit's harder.
What do you think they what doyou think men struggle with?

SPEAKER_01 (01:46:52):
Uh like as far as myself, I mean I would say I
struggle with you know, wealways have excuses as far as as
reading the word, you know.
I feel like even for myself I Ineed to to read the word a lot
more than than I should.
You know, and I believe that'swhere a lot of men struggle.
They just don't want to take thetime take the time or throw it

(01:47:13):
out there, you know.
But but I just think we need toto dig deeper as men, you know
what I mean, and get into theword and that'll help us uh
tremendously, you know, to getwhere we need to be as far as
you know, that'll lead to moreprayer, yeah, you know, more
things for our family, you know,open up doors.

(01:47:34):
Yeah, but um I think that'llhelp us a lot, you know, as as a
man.

SPEAKER_03 (01:47:41):
Yeah, okay.
Um well what do you guys want tosay to the backslider?
I know uh you were not abackslider, you kind of were a
backslider.
I was a backslider.
Um, but I I think the struggleis the same, you know, the

(01:48:01):
apprehension about what God'sgonna expect and the fear about
going to church, you know.
Um what do you guys think isimportant for someone that
hasn't come back to God?
Maybe God's dealing with themand they just haven't said yes
yet.

SPEAKER_06 (01:48:22):
The first step is just getting to the house of
God, even if you're not in thehouse of God talking to him.
I mean he hears you no matterwhat you're doing, no matter
where you're at, he still hearsyou and answers.
Yeah.
You know, he loves you and hewants you to call upon him.
Because when you call upon him,that's when he can he can move

(01:48:44):
in your life because he has tohear you say it.

SPEAKER_03 (01:48:46):
You know, he wants to hear it's free will, and when
we ask God, we are giving himpermission to move in our life
because he's not gonna forcehimself.
And I you know, I think we don'tpeople just think, oh God should
God should just do this, Godshould just know.
But no, he he created our freewill for us to desire him.

(01:49:14):
So yeah, that's that's good.

SPEAKER_06 (01:49:16):
Yeah, no matter where you're at, you know.
I just I remember just tellingGod, I I I want help, I need how
do I get out of this?
How do I do this?
You know, and call someone,yeah, tell them you need help,
you want them to pray for you.
Whatever it may be, the Lordloves you and desires to have
you close to him.

(01:49:37):
And the enemy will try to feedyou all those lies to keep you
from calling upon the Lord.
But it just takes even sayinghis name.
And that's that open that opendoor for him to be able to
respond to you.

SPEAKER_03 (01:49:55):
What would you say, Lewis?

SPEAKER_01 (01:49:57):
Um, I would say you know, I'm a I'm a walking
testimony myself, so just keepdoing what you're doing, you
know, keep asking God, you know,for forgiveness.
God can deliver you, don't giveup.
You know, that's that's onething don't give up.
God's always there.
I mean, I'm going 20 yearssober, drug free.

(01:50:19):
Wow.
Living for God, and it's notbaptized, Holy Ghost, just like
that.
Yes, amen.
Um the gang life, the drug life,the drug world, whatever you
want to call it, let all thatdown, you know, the devil's a
liar.

SPEAKER_04 (01:50:31):
Yeah, it's gonna take people straight to hell.

SPEAKER_01 (01:50:34):
We're all here for you, the brothers are here for
you, the sisters.
Yeah, don't give up.

SPEAKER_03 (01:50:38):
And it's a good life, living for God.
Oh, yes, sir.
Right.
I mean, if that life held anykind of comparison, you know,
people would still be doing it,but there is nothing, you know.
We we hear all those songs, youknow, um, take the whole world
and give me Jesus.
Like when you experience Jesus,right?

(01:50:59):
Oh, yeah, you know, you canreally sing that song.
There's nothing in the world.

SPEAKER_08 (01:51:03):
No, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:51:04):
You know, we gotta live.
There is a walking out processof learning how to live in this
life.

SPEAKER_04 (01:51:11):
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (01:51:11):
But um, but it is good when you have the Lord on
your side.
Amen.

SPEAKER_06 (01:51:17):
Yes, he's given us the Lord has given us a
beautiful life and has trulyblessed us.

SPEAKER_03 (01:51:22):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (01:51:22):
And I'm forever grateful to him.

SPEAKER_03 (01:51:24):
Peace of God is like nothing else.

SPEAKER_01 (01:51:28):
And and knowing that all your children are saved.
Yeah.
You know, you go to church onSunday, Wednesday revivals, and
all your grandkids are there andyour children, it's it's such a
blessing, you know, knowing thatthey all serve the Lord.
They've all been saved.

SPEAKER_03 (01:51:42):
Right.
And I, you know, I usually askyou guys the second question, I
know what you're gonna say, butyou are both a testament of
someone's prayer.
Yes.
And when when you love yourchild or your spouse or any
backslider, um, when you lovethem, you pray for them.

SPEAKER_08 (01:52:04):
Yes, right.

SPEAKER_03 (01:52:05):
And so um, you know, so to the parents out there, to
the spouses out there, you know,don't pray.
It won't be a good thing.
Don't give up.

SPEAKER_06 (01:52:15):
Keep praying, keep praying.

SPEAKER_03 (01:52:17):
Yes, because God does answer.
I mean, I I was gone for I thinkI was about 15, 14, 15 when I
slid away from the Lord.
And I was 28 when I prayed backthrough.
And when I prayed back through,I was committed to live for God,
but I didn't know how.
Right.

(01:52:37):
So I still made mistakes and Igot drunk again and I did crazy
things.
Um, but it but I never left Godthat time.
Right.
I just I did I was trying tofigure out how to live in this
life, you know.
But yeah, but my dad said hewould pray that God would
torment me until I would return.

(01:52:58):
And and the Lord did.
I had nightmares, I had dreamsabout the whole church being on
fire, I had dreams about therapture taking place, you know.
Those praying parents that itworks, it works, and I know that
I also am a fat it am a umresult of my mom and dad's
prayers, you know.

(01:53:20):
So prayer works, guys, and um itit might take a long time, it
might be years, it might havebeen years.
Yes, um, but God is answering,and I believe God is really
answering in this hour.

SPEAKER_07 (01:53:34):
Yes, he is.

SPEAKER_03 (01:53:35):
You know, that we are just seeing so many exciting
things, and um God is on themove.

SPEAKER_06 (01:53:40):
Yes, he is, you know.
So and I recently told someonethat um going kind of through
the same thing, I said I whisperto them, get to the house of the
Lord no matter what you do.
Yeah, they'll follow.
Yeah, and I've seen it.
Yeah, it's happening right nowin this moment.
It is happening.
And I was like, wow, Lord, youdid it quickly.

(01:54:01):
And I told her it would be donequickly.
The Lord will do it so quick.
You come no matter what's goingon around you because time is
sharing and watch what theLord's gonna do for you, and
He's doing it so quickly, yeah.
And I'm I know without a doubtthat if you just stay steadfast
and keep going, that He's gonnado it.

SPEAKER_03 (01:54:19):
Yep, yep, he is because He you know, our prayers
do not fall to the ground, he'sHe holds them all, and and you
know, if it's taking a longtime, it's not because God isn't
working, it's because God has towork on the heart.
Yes, the person has to bewilling, but God never stops
working on the heart to get theminto position.

(01:54:41):
So well, I love you guys.
We love you.
And uh thank you for sharingyour testimony.
And I I just think that I I praythat this encourages couples.
Yes, um, yes, because eventhough you guys are living for
God and life is good, you know,marriage is hard.

SPEAKER_06 (01:55:00):
Yeah, and um you have to wake up every morning to
make the choice that I'm goingto love this person no matter
how much or how hard it is.
Yeah, and sometimes, you know,we think uh love is oh, I'm so
in love.
Sometimes love isn't that typeof action, it's I love coming up
to stay here and see you throughthis and help you through this,
yeah, yeah, and pray for you.

SPEAKER_03 (01:55:21):
And the love, the romantic love comes back.
It it just kind of ebbs andflows, you know, you're not
always gonna be in love, butwhen you love, yeah, um, you can
stay the course and the in-lovepiece comes back.
Yes, yeah, it does.
All right.
Well, thanks for being here.
And uh to everybody out there,thanks for watching.

(01:55:43):
Um, if you know a backslider, ifyou know any parents or spouses
of backsliders, if you willshare um our podcast with them,
hopefully it will bless them andsee you guys next week.
Bye.

SPEAKER_00 (01:55:57):
We are so glad you joined us.
If you have a story ofredemption or have worn the
label of a backslider, we wouldlove to hear from you.
If you'd like to support ourministry, your donation will be
tax deductible.
Visit our website attheredeemedbackslider.org.
We hope you will tune in for ournext episode.

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