Sexually Abused But Healed: Courtney Rakestraw

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Courtney shares her beautiful love affair with Jesus that began when she was just 3 years old. Jesus was ever present throughout her childhood and never left her, even when life took a drastic turn for the worse when she was sexually abused by someone she loved and trusted. That event led her to a life of Lesbianism and suicidal ideation, until the day she was intent on taking her life. That’s when Jesus intervened. Her testimony is beautiful and today she has her own ministry, Creative Studio. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Redeemed Backslider with your
host, kathy Chastain.
Christian-based psychotherapistand Redeemed Backslider.
This podcast is dedicated tothose who have wandered but are
ready to return to thelife-changing power of grace and
the freedom found in Jesus.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Hi, welcome to the Redeemed Backslider.
I'm your host, kathy Chastain.
I'm a licensed Christianpsychotherapist and with me
today.
Oh, and I'm also a RedeemedBackslider, and with me today is
my friend Courtney Rakeshaw.
Welcome, courtney.

Speaker 3 (00:41):
Thank you, I'm happy to be here.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
Yes, I always, always get your name wrong, even
though I know your name so well.
Good night, that's okay.

Speaker 3 (00:52):
It's a hard name.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
Courtney Rakeshaw.
Rakeshaw yeah, okay, I had itright the first time.
Well, I'm glad to be here withyou.
You thank you for inviting yesyes, well, I'm so glad to know
your testimony, um, I know thatwe met at a ladies conference at

(01:16):
the visalia church my homechurch, um a couple years ago I
guess it's been and what stoodout, what stood out to me so
much about you, was how nice youwere.
I thought that you were so niceand so just genuine, just
genuinely yourself.

(01:36):
I just thought you were sowonderful.
And so when Sister Cain, mypastor's wife, told me I needed
to talk to you about yourtestimony, I'm like, oh well, it
just looks like you've been inchurch all your life, very well
adjusted, happy, happy, happy.
So I've been looking forward tohearing your testimony and

(01:58):
sharing your testimony with theworld out there.

Speaker 3 (02:04):
Yeah.
I'm excited for thisopportunity those are.
One of my favoriteopportunities is to share what
God's done in my life.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
Yeah Well, where would you like to begin?

Speaker 3 (02:15):
Yeah, I'll just start from the beginning.
I had a child life that wasraised around the Apostolic
Pentecostal organization and myparents raised me according to
the Bible and just at a youngage, at three years old, I got

(02:35):
the Holy Ghost and filled withthe Spirit, was speaking in
tongues and I, just from a youngage, was very close to God, was
very sensitive to God.
I would have deep talks withthe Lord at a really young age
and I had a really good childlife.

(03:00):
It was just one of the bestchild lives you could have that
a kid could ever want.
But before I get too far into it, I guess I just above all that
my story has in it.
Before I get into the darknessof it and the different
decisions I made and differentthings that happened, I just

(03:23):
want to make sure that anythingthat I say, that God gets all
the glory for it.
You know, any restoration andhealing, anything that I may
become or am, anything that I am, is due to his grace, his
amazing found, and I was very,very much blinded and the Lord

(03:48):
has opened up my eyes and isstill opening up my eyes and
this is something only that Godcan do.
It's supernatural, it's anamazing grace.
And so I want to make sure thateverything that I say reflects
that, that he turned my veryugly past into a beautiful
testimony, and I want to always,always give him praise for that

(04:10):
.
So none of this is my doing ismy point.
I want to make sure that youhear that this is God's glory
and that he deserves that fordoing that in my life.
So, anyway, I'll get back towhere I was.
I had one of the best childlives very close to God, very
sensitive to God, deepintercession prayers.

(04:32):
You know, I was a kid so Ididn't always stay consistent,
but when I talked to the Lord itwas generally pretty deep.
And at 13, though, I wassexually abused, and so my
innocent purity quickly turnedinto this evil wickedness, this

(04:55):
darkness.
It was absolutely life-altering.
And in this sexual abuse Ifroze up, didn't know how to
take it at this time, because Iwas very innocent and secluded
child life.
Even at the age of 13, I wasjust very pure, very sheltered.
We didn't have a TV in our home, nothing that would show me

(05:21):
that evil side to show me thatside, right, right, yeah.
So when the sexual abusehappened, I ended up freezing up
and not knowing what to do inthis situation, because I
couldn't understand whether thiswas really normal or not.

(05:41):
Because of my innocency Ididn't quite, I couldn't
comprehend in the moment.
I just kind of froze up and Ididn't know really what was
going on.
But spiritually, because I wasso innocent and pure, and then
all of a sudden this switchedwhile this was happening.

(06:02):
Sudden this switched while thiswas happening.
Spiritually, um, I felt this,this evil presence in this.
Um, you know, I was aware ofsomething dark being present and
, uh, physically I like I wassaying I didn't, I didn't really
know if this was normal or not.
This was someone I trusted,someone I loved very much,

(06:24):
important in my life, and Ididn't know why this person
would do something wrong to me.
So I just was very confused.
But spiritually, in theinstance, I knew something was

(06:45):
very dark with me andspiritually, it's just this evil
that came on me in the moment.

Speaker 2 (06:57):
Courtney, I think it's fairly unusual we don't
hear about it a lot Someonegetting the Holy Ghost at the
age of three, at such a very,very young age.
Have you given that any thought?
Why do you think that God gaveyou the Holy Ghost at three?

(07:20):
Have you ever thought aboutthat?

Speaker 3 (07:28):
at three.
Have you ever thought aboutthat?
I have.
Uh, I don't, I don't believethat I'm anybody special right.
He's no respecter of persons?
so definitely not that, um, mydad raised me.
One of.
One of the reasons why I hadthe best child life that a kid
could ever want, um, is becausemy dad really taught me by
example, and not just with hiswords, how to be close to God,

(07:51):
and I'm very thankful for that.
There's not a day in his lifethat I know of that he hasn't
spent time and I mean hours withthe Lord and through his
example.
As a kid, you, just when you'rearound that that's what you do,
right?
We are kind of a lot of howwe're raised, and so sometimes

(08:16):
not all the time.
I shouldn't say that but just inthis kind of way.
That's all I saw and that's allI wanted to be.
And so I think that at thisyoung age I had already been
exposed to this walk with God.
That's so beautiful and my dadwould cry still does.

(08:37):
He still has an amazing walkwith the Lord.
I would hear him cry to God andjust pour out his heart to God,
and they had this relationshipthat I was, even as a young girl
, I suppose, craving, you know,just humanity, wanting that

(09:01):
relationship with God, and so Iwas just very sensitive.
I'm a sensitive person.
I'll probably cry today.
I'm a very sensitive person soI possibly was just opening up
my, you know, with my praise andworship I don't think there is
an age limit and I believe thatI had that childlike faith and

(09:23):
that desire for him that I thinkI just opened up to him and he
came in.

Speaker 2 (09:30):
Yeah, well, at three there is no cognitive.
You know your cognitiveunderstanding is not fully
developed there, it's justbeginning, right.
But I do think, because threeyears old you're a toddler
You're just still putting yourwords together, learning how to
understand what things mean injust the most basic sense.

(09:53):
But I do think that thesensitivity that you carry, I
think maybe your dad I mean I'mspeculating, obviously, but I
wonder if your dad and your momhad just created an atmosphere
of his presence in the home.
And because you were three, youare already very aware of that

(10:17):
it was an easy transitionbecause you were spiritually
sensitive.
You know sensitivity in thenatural is sensitivity in the
spiritual and so I think yourspirit just really easily
probably connected because it is.
It is very unusual that someoneat that age, you know um, would

(10:39):
get the Holy ghost and know youknow, really be aware of it in
that way yeah, yeah so I was.
I was just curious if you'vethought about it.

Speaker 3 (10:49):
Yeah, my son ended up getting the holy ghost to speak
in in tongues at the age offour.
So wow yeah, so, and he's verysensitive to god too.
So, uh, like I said, I don'tthink the age really matters,
but that is it, doesn't it?

Speaker 2 (11:06):
doesn't.
Yeah.
But looking at your life andunderstanding who God has
created you to be, I alwaysthink every little thing that
happens is not by accident.
It's all part of what he uses.
So, just on a personal level, Ithink it's beautiful and I was

(11:26):
just wondering you know whatthat would look like for someone
so young to be able to just getthe Holy Ghost?
I think it's beautiful.

Speaker 3 (11:37):
Yeah, I'm very thankful for it that I got that.
Yeah.
Especially with the rest of mytestimony and the rest of what
my life held, that I had that toalways refer back to that
relationship with him becauseyou had until the age of 13.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
You had a good long time to develop, to develop a
very deep and close walk withgod absolutely, and my dad never
stopped raising us that way.

Speaker 3 (12:06):
So, yes, I had all of those years of just not only in
my prayer life, but he taughtus the Word of God and why we
live what we live, right, a lotof kids grow up not knowing why,
and he taught us all thosethings and I'm very thankful for
that.
I'm very thankful for him in mylife.
He's been a very importantvoice in my life and I love him

(12:31):
very much.
But anyway, so, yes, so I wasspiritually sensitive, right?
So, in this pure form, though,until 13, until this incident
happened.
Right.
So when this did happen, it justaltered my life in a negative
way, from white to black.

(12:52):
And now.
Just it seemed as if I won'tsay as deep as I was close to
God.
It went the other way, but itwas very dark.
The sexual abuse was and I feltthat spiritually and you know I

(13:15):
wouldn't be surprised if thathappens a lot of people's life.
They just maybe aren't, they'renot aware of it, you know.

Speaker 2 (13:21):
Right.
I wanted to ask when the sexualabuse happened.
Since you are spiritually aware, do you feel like an?
Uh evil spirit attached itselfto you?
Uh because of the abuse, or doyou feel like that evil was felt

(13:43):
because of shame, like?

Speaker 3 (13:45):
you know what I'm saying.
I feel like it was because ofshame, because as soon as this
happened, you know, when I wasyounger, I had this love for God
and his spirit lived inside ofme and I knew he loved me.
I didn't question it.
I knew God loved me when I wasa kid.

(14:08):
But as soon as someone touchedme, this change happened and all
of a sudden I'm too unlovable,I'm too dirty, I'm too because
of the sins of this man.
All of a sudden now it feltlike I was too dirty, I'm too
because of the sins of, you know, this man.
All of a sudden now it feltlike I was the sinner, it felt

(14:30):
like I carried all this, youknow why did I?
freeze up.
So there was this self-blame ofwhy didn't I do something about
it.
You know, why didn't I move,why didn't I say no, why didn't
I do anything?
But but I just sat there and soI had the self-blame, the shame
, right that that now I'munworthy and and that opened the

(14:54):
door what's that?
and that opened the door yes andI believe that I don't know
that anything attached to me.
Necessarily.
It definitely twisted, you know, my life after that in in
different ways, but, um, I wouldsay that this evil presence was

(15:15):
in the room, it was a darknessand, um, I was aware of it, I
was aware of it and from thatmoment on, you know, until later
with healing, I reallystruggled with God loving me,
because now I'm too dirty and Ieven took a shower right after

(15:38):
the incident and just couldn'twash the dirt off.
I couldn't get it all off.
The way that I was feeling andhow it made me feel I couldn't
wash this dirt off of what hadhappened to me.

Speaker 2 (15:52):
Do you want to talk about what happened that day,
that night, when the incidentoccurred?

Speaker 3 (16:13):
Yeah.
So I ended up going to bed thatnight and there was this, just
like I said, like this evilpresence.
I felt it the whole time.
I was there because I was therefor a weekend.

Speaker 2 (16:21):
So you were at someone's house that you knew,
that you trusted that you lovedthat you felt safe with, so you
were spending the weekend there,okay, yeah, and did you feel
that presence the whole time youwere there, or only at the time
of the abuse?

Speaker 3 (16:38):
Wow, that is super good question, because I just
something just clicked rightwhen you asked that and I did
feel it before.
I felt him looking at me and,in fact, a very specific place.
We were at this pizza place andI felt him looking at me and

(17:06):
it's as if, like it's crazy thatyou just asked that question,
because I've never thought ofthis and when he looked at me it
wasn't in the way that I wasused to because, see, I was we
at at this time.
You know, I lived down south insouthern california, and right
now I live in NorthernCalifornia.
I'm from Eureka, california,but we live down South.

(17:27):
Sorry, I'm trying to thinkwhere we were at my bad Now, I

(18:14):
know, but I don't know.
I just kind of took a minutethere, that's okay, anyway.
Uh, so at 13, I was, you know,going going to this charter
school and all of that, and so I, I had these, these men that
would look on me, right anddifferent things like that.
But this was different becauseit did put some fear into me,

(18:38):
because I, I all of a sudden waslike why did I just feel that?
Why did I just Notice that?
Was like, why did I just feelthat.
Why did I just notice that?
Yeah, yeah, and for me, likeI've said before, I was so
innocent.
So it's strange because, likepeople you know I would, I would

(19:00):
have men look at me or whateverbefore that, even at a young
age, and go into school,different things like that, and
it was nothing for me, but I wasjust like, oh yeah, men like
women, not a big deal.
Now I think of it, and I wasonly 13.
That's a really young age.

(19:21):
There's something obviouslywrong there.
But I didn't think of it as abig deal because I was like
that's just something you knowthey do and in my innocent mind
no big deal.
They're just looking you know,yeah, disregard yeah so, but
when he looked and I remember itwas at this pizza place, and
when he looked, um, and I can'teven tell you where he looked,

(19:46):
there's not even a specificplace, it's just when he looked
I felt that yeah yeah, so and Iwould guess as we were saying
that night.
um, I would say that when theincident happened it definitely
intensified that feeling that Ihad that fear, that shame, all

(20:09):
of that.
But laying down that night wastormenting because I didn't know
if he would come in again anddo it again.
I didn't know if I was going tohave to live through this hell
another time, this hell anothertime.
So you go home that night, tothe place you go to bed and the

(20:36):
door opens at some point and hecomes in and molests you.
Yes, and then?
Well, it didn't happen while Iwas in the bedroom by myself,
but it actually happened when wewere just sitting together.
However, once that was all doneand I did the shower thing, I

(21:00):
tried to wash off the dirt.
Couldn't, could not wash offthe feeling that it caused me,
then later.
that night I went to bed and thedoor was open.
Yes, and so I can't remember ifit was like their rule that
they wanted the door open, or ifI just left it open Cause I was
scared.
I have no idea.
But it was open and I didn'tfeel like, you know, the the
power to shut it because itwasn't my house or anything,

(21:22):
although I'm very close to them.
So, yeah, I laid there intorment that night.
There was definitely fear inthe room and this darkness in
the room that was tormenting.

Speaker 2 (21:39):
How much longer did you have to be there before you
were able to go home and talk toyour folks?
Did you tell them right away?

Speaker 3 (21:51):
Yes, I told them right away and I'm glad that I
did that, so glad that I knewsomething well enough in the
innocency to let them know, andI was close enough to them still
am so I'm thankful that I didthat and didn't cause you know

(22:13):
it to be repeated to myself.

Speaker 2 (22:15):
So did you go home right away after that, or did
you have to stay another day ortwo at their?

Speaker 3 (22:23):
house.
Thankfully it had happened.
I was there for the weekend,but the second day is when it
happened, when the molesthappened.
And then, uh, the next day, thenext morning is when I left,
actually pretty early in themorning, so it was.
I hadn't slept very well thatnight.
Uh, the last night, because ofobvious reasons that, the fear

(22:46):
and just not knowing what wasgoing to happen, and I couldn't
even focus on my thoughts.
I was just in overwhelmingdarkness that I'd never
experienced before.
Okay, yeah, okay.
So now I felt the shame, theunworthy, the unloved, and, like

(23:07):
I was saying, my view of God'slove definitely changed at this
point to where I started puttingthat block up, where I couldn't
receive God.
I wouldn't receive God's lovebecause I labeled myself too
unclean, myself too unclean.
So all that I had known, allthat innocence and all that

(23:30):
purity and that sweet littleCourtney, everything quickly
shifted after that violation.
So, unfortunately, I let thatunworthiness and that unloved
you know, the devil is accuserof the brethren right, so I let

(23:53):
him.
He spoke in my mind like that.
It's almost like it left a kindof an open door for him to have
access into my mind after thatand I allowed those thoughts to
stay in.
I believed them, unfortunately,and so I claimed to be too
unworthy for him to love, toodirty for God to love me.

(24:18):
I, you know, went through thegrief, the loss, the betrayal
because I lost somebody that wasimportant to me.
This was a very importantperson to me and I lost them in
my life, and to try to processthat was really hard at this age

(24:52):
because I didn't understand whyit had to happen.
I didn't know, you know, Ididn't.
I didn't know where it wasgoing to go from here.
I didn't.
I just, like I said, I couldn'tfocus, even.
It wasn't just the night, youknow, of that torment, like
after that, I, I, in my life, Icouldn't focus on really much of
anything.
It was kind of like being in afog, right, well, it totally
like being in a fog, right?

Speaker 2 (25:09):
Well, it totally disrupted everything about your
life.
And I think the grief.
I think grief is something thatdoesn't get talked about enough
in trauma.
But grief is a huge aspect ofthe abuse cycle and I think that

(25:31):
people are so quick to processthe abuse and try to get their
bearings and feel like they'restrong enough to keep going that
often that grief never getsprocessed.
But the fact that you wereprocessing it and you know and
grieving it because you had asafe place with your parents to

(25:51):
tell them- yeah that part isreally good, but the brokenness
that it caused would have alsocaused you to be very
emotionally vulnerable andsusceptible, as you said, to the
lies of the enemy, speakinginto your thoughts.

Speaker 3 (26:09):
Yeah, and so, even though I was very angry at him,
I still lost someone that wasimportant to me.
So, yes, I still had to gothrough the grief of that.
So so much happens in theseabusive situations, happens in

(26:35):
these abusive situations and youknow, I, just I they shouldn't
be downplayed, they shoulddefinitely be catered to, you
know, to be helped with drasticintervention yeah because, and
the sooner the better, right.
so just so much, and because Iwas spiritually aware, and then
I went from that white to black,the light to the darkness.
I don't know if I was, I don'tknow if I was ready to learn how

(27:02):
to fight that kind of fight.
You know, even though I'd gotthe.
Holy Ghost at three.
It was a lot to take in andbrought a lot of confusion.
Yeah.
So my teenage years were okay.
Besides, you know what I wasbattling in here.
My teenage years were stillsomewhat normal until the trauma

(27:26):
effects started showing up inmy later teens, and even without
looking for it, you know, Iended up falling into
homosexuality.

Speaker 2 (27:36):
So, courtney, you come home from that weekend, you
tell your parents you guys dealwith it and then you just go
back to life as usual, going.
You just go back to church, goback to your normal routine,
dealing with, of course, theafter effects, but you just keep

(27:58):
going on in life, right, andyou probably were a little bit
aware.
You probably were a little bitaware everything had shifted in
you.
But when you look back, do youthink you were very much aware?
Do you feel like you were inany denial at all that you were
going to be okay, or did youfeel like as soon as you got

(28:22):
home you just knew you weren'tgoing to be okay?

Speaker 3 (28:24):
I think because I had such a big past of everything
being all right, when you justknew you weren't going to be
okay.
I think because I had such abig past of everything being all
right, I probably did believethat everything was just going
to end up being okay, andbecause for most of my teen
years it was okay, I mean therewas nothing bad that happened in

(28:47):
those years and besides, like Isaid, everything that was going
on in here yeah, life wentpretty back to normal.
Yeah.
You know, and my parents andfamily and all did what they
could.
There's only so much you can do, but they did everything that
they could do.
So everything went prettypretty much back to normal.

(29:08):
Besides, you know, it wasn'tnormal in here.
Nothing was going on normal inhere, but also.
I didn't have that focus toreally until later in my life to
really start.
Understand it.

Speaker 2 (29:23):
Yeah Right.
So how did you fall intohomosexuality?
What was the first step, wouldyou say?

Speaker 3 (29:31):
I think it's more or less like I had this I guess you
could say that from my abuse.
It just twisted me up a bit inwho I and who I am right and
what I even want in life Couldyou describe that, could you

(29:52):
describe?

Speaker 2 (29:53):
where the twist was.
Could you describe where thetwist was?
What was the twist?

Speaker 3 (30:03):
I don't know how to describe that actually, but just
something had shifted from thesexual abuse that later started
showing up.
I guess so, but it wasn't.
That was like I said I wassexually abused at 13, but I
didn't fall into homosexualityuntil I was, you know, in my

(30:24):
older teens, until I was, youknow, in my older teens.
So those effects didn't startshowing up till later in my life
.
But you know, homosexuality,pornography or you know,
promiscuous lifestyles likethose are effects of a root
cause, and so I didn't realizethat at this time, you know,

(30:46):
until all these effects startedshowing up in my life.
So I don't think I processedthrough all the ways of how it
happened and this and that, butdefinitely fell into sin because
of the way that I was.
I believe that's a part of itwas because I wasn't receiving

(31:06):
that love of God and I felt sounworthy and unloved, you know,
yeah, so, and that's why, too,because of these effects like,
it's so important to deal withthose traumatic, you know,
instances that happen in ourlives, which is hard to do, very

(31:27):
challenging to deal with them.
But I think that sometimes wetry to fix all these effect
problems when it's really goingback to the source of where this
stuff came from.
Right right.
So you know the darkness that Ihad encountered at 13,.

(31:54):
It was dark, but you know itwas present in my mind and
living in my mind throughoutthose years.
I didn't fight against that.
I don't think I knew how.
I know that's probably not anexcuse, but I, I didn't.
I didn't fight against that Ididn't.
I don't think I knew how.
I know that's probably not anexcuse, but I really didn't.
It just kind of all a blur inthose years.
I do remember things and allthat, but it's just kind of like

(32:17):
I was just floating into yeahsee where life is going to take
me.
And but when I fell intohomosexuality, this darkness.
But when I fell intohomosexuality, this darkness,
you know, got even darker, itdefinitely escalated.
So it's almost like, you know,with the abuse, my purity had

(32:38):
got switched to the darkness andthen it just switched again
even darker, because I was nowliving in sin and you know, in
this sin I was entertainingsomething very dark, without
even realizing or contemplatingthe full depth of it.
But homosexuality for me wasfar more spiritual than it was
physical.
For me, it was very.

(33:01):
It was something that was darkto me that I was fighting
against, more than somethingphysical.
So it was definitely, you know,sin.
So when we fight against sin,and I didn't have the Holy Ghost
living in me to overcome that.

Speaker 2 (33:24):
Yeah, I think sin is about separation from god.
So it sounds like you were justgetting further and further and
further away, so you werefilling the levels of that depth
, the depth of your awaynessfrom god.
It sounds like the dark.
The darkness because it wouldtotally creep in and it is dark.

(33:46):
It is dark because it'sspiritual, like you said.

Speaker 3 (33:49):
Right.
So, unfortunately, still atthis older age, I still didn't
know how to deal with this levelof darkness.
So the spirit of homosexualityis very demonic and antichrist.
So I got angry at myselfthroughout this from sinning
right so frustrated, notrealizing that this was an

(34:12):
effect instead of you know, itwas an effect of something that
needed to be dealt with.
So you know, we don't fightagainst flesh and blood or
against people, but we fightagainst principalities, right
and powers, rulers of darknessand spiritual wickedness.
So sin is to blame and Christdid pay the price for that.

(34:35):
So we have hope there.
Christ paid the price for blameand even self-blame and sin at
Calvary.
He took that upon himself.
So we fight against the darkspirits, not people.
So this sin.
I was angry at myself, though Istarted turning inward and

(34:56):
getting angry at myself becauseI didn't want sin in my life.
I wanted to live for God.
I wanted to have thisrelationship with God that I had
had before.
That never seemed to fully beat that same level.

Speaker 2 (35:12):
Restored yeah.

Speaker 3 (35:14):
Restored.
Yeah, it never had seemed toreturn to that throughout those
teen years, even when life wasokay.
I just, I believe that well,yeah, I mean, it's biblical.
You know, when I, throughoutthose years, when we're not
taking the thought intocaptivity, when we're not, it's

(35:36):
not dealt with in the way thatyou know, spiritually I needed
it and I needed to do for myselfand didn't realize, you know,
it's just a lot happens duringthat time.
But I don't know if I knew howdeep I had been involved with

(36:01):
and aware of the spiritual realmon the pure and righteous side
as a kid.
I don't know if I was fullyaware of it at this time I am
now.
But so when this spiritual sideon the evil, you know, came and
now with sin, it just, it justreally caused a lot of confusion

(36:24):
in me.
So I don't think anythingchanged in me.
To turn to the sin ofhomosexuality, it just and I
know I I said I feel like I wastwisted a bit, but it was
definitely more spiritual thanphysical Now that sin is in this
picture, because this is nothow God created me to be it
caused all the more shame, allthe more unworthinessiness and

(36:45):
those unloved feelings and youknow, I believe that sin opens
up that access for the enemy totake over our thoughts, because
if we don't have that armor ofGod on to protect those thoughts
, that are lies and you know,the accuser of the brethren is
accusing us and labeling us, andwhen we don't have the armor on

(37:07):
or the spirit of god living inour life, um, that access, you
know, to the enemy's thoughts isthere and mine was wide open
and I started really believingeverything that the enemy was
telling me well, I want toaddress something, something
because I'm trying to think ofhow to say this without

(37:33):
offending the righteous outthere.

Speaker 2 (37:38):
I actually really hate the word sin.
I know that there is sin and Iknow that it is sin, but I just
so hate the word sin in somecontext because it always comes
with such condemnation, and Ithink there's willful sin and I

(38:03):
think willful sin is definitelywillful, and I think that there
is sin and even though it'squote-unquote sin, people are
not always aware in the waysthat they are right and, like I
said earlier, sin is aboutseparation from God, because,
ultimately, god didn't createany of this.

(38:24):
God does not ever want you tobe anyone but who he created you
to be, and so the further weget away from his purest design
for us, the further we get awayfrom that, everything becomes
corrupted and skewed, and Ithink exactly what you just said

(38:47):
a second ago now that you wereentering into a relationship
that you knew was wrong, theenemy could beat you up with
that.
Yeah, he could beat you up withthat choice, but it originated
because of how you felt aboutyourself and the shame and the

(39:11):
unworthiness and the uncleannessthat you felt, and I want to
make the distinction, becauseI'm probably a little bit of a
bleeding heart, but I look atpeople through the lens of a
wound and I think that a lot ofpeople are judged and judge

(39:33):
themselves by their behaviors,when in fact the wound is what
is responsible for the behaviors.
We've got to heal the woundsand Jesus came to bind up the
brokenhearted right.
And so is it sin?
Yes, it's sin, but it's not sinjust from a volition of wanting

(39:56):
to just go out and do whateveryou want.
Right, the behavior is abyproduct of lies that we
believe from the enemy.
Right, like you said, your eyeswere blinded and so in your
mind, I know you knew thathomosexuality was wrong.

(40:16):
But there's a lot of people outthere that might be backslid,
that might be listening, thatfell into it out of a need to be
loved.
And is it still unbiblical?
Yes, but the maliciousness, theact of volition from a wrong

(40:39):
place may not necessarily bethere, right, I mean?

Speaker 3 (40:43):
sin is still sin, so like motives.

Speaker 2 (40:47):
Yeah, right, and so when I hear sin and when people
talk about sin, it brings suchcondemnation and assumption that
people are doing that from avery bad motive, wrong place,
and sometimes it's just done outof innocence or ignorance

(41:08):
actually a lot and sometimesit's done because they, just
like you said, believe the liesof the enemy.
So I just want to clear that upfor anyone who because I think
this is way more common in thechurch world, especially as I
started this podcast you podcastI am hearing more and more and

(41:30):
more that this is much morecommon in the church world than
what we have talked about in thechurch world.
And coming out, as you haveexperienced, is not easy, and
coming back to church as someonewho's straight away from God is
also not easy.
So I just want to bridge thatgap for anyone that's listening.

(41:52):
Like there is no judgment, youknow just.
You know if I want to givepeople place to just, we
understand the pain that wentalong with all of that.

Speaker 3 (42:07):
Absolutely no, I respect that a lot.
I get exactly what I think, I'mhearing you in, exactly what
you're saying, and I know thatyou don't mean it that way.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
I just know that in a church culture, everything is
discussed as right or wrong,good and bad, sin or holiness,
right or wrong, good and bad,sin or holiness, and though that
is true, I believe there isfurther conversation that needs
to be had around those black andwhite concepts.

Speaker 3 (42:42):
Yeah, I wasn't looking for it.
Yeah, right, yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:45):
It just happened.
You even said I fell in.
You know we stumble into thingsthat we should not stumble into
, but you were not equippedbecause you were so broken.

Speaker 3 (42:59):
Yeah, I had already thought pretty low of myself,
and so that's why I say, when Idid fall into this sin, then it
just created all the more.
Shame begets shame, so shameproduces more shame.
And those effects startedshowing up everywhere.

Speaker 2 (43:18):
And once you have a behavior that we know is wrong,
and then we do that, now thedevil has ammunition to condemn
us with it, because we alreadyknew it wasn't okay.

Speaker 3 (43:30):
Absolutely so.
I'm thankful, like I saidbefore, that I always had
something to refer back to.
Yeah, yeah, as most people havewalked away from God do and, you
know, thankful for that becauseI had known God before on such
a deep level that you know I'dbeen in those deep places with

(43:52):
him that I did have that torefer back to always.
You know it's still.
You know, unfortunately sinstill did damage in my life, but
I always knew where home was,where I was going to come back
to.
I always knew that when I wasready for repentance I knew

(44:16):
where I was coming.
So I'm very thankful that I hadthat, because that's our hope
right.
And if I didn't have that itcould have went my life probably
would have went way worse.
But again, god's amazing grace,so that I had that history of my
relationship with him and beingclose to him and knowing he

(44:37):
loved me To, even though nowwhere I felt like you know, he
didn't love me, which was my thelies of the enemy I still in
the back of my mind, alwayswould think about what I had had
with him.
And then from there on out Iwanted to start working my way
back, even after first sin.

(44:59):
It's like you really crave that.

Speaker 2 (45:04):
Because your spirit longs for it.

Speaker 3 (45:13):
It does.
It does that so but becauseyour spirit longs for it, it
does.
It does so that I mean to talkmore on that unloved feeling.
You know, the pivotalrelationship between um god,
others and ourself is ourself,and when we don't allow god to
love us and open our heart tohis love the way that he wants
to love us, we don't loveourselves and others the way
that he wants us to and how heloves us and them.

(45:37):
So I was really hurting thosearound me, doing the lying and
using everything that sin does.
The way of a transgressor ishard and, you know, trying to
cover my sin with, as ChesterWright describes it, you know,

(45:59):
our own fig leaves that Adam andEve made for themselves.
It just the fig leaves don'twork, but I was trying to cover.
You know I was trying to, tocover up what sin was, was doing
.
And so there was definitely,you know, the lying and the
using and hurting other people,and not only hurting other

(46:21):
people but hurting myself.
And I wasn't loving Courtney,the way that God, god, loved me,
because I was just blockingthat, that love that he had for
me.
His love didn't stop, but Iwasn't receiving his love the
way that you know I would if I Ihad opened that part up so um

(46:44):
you do have others around you.
I'm sorry, go ahead.

Speaker 2 (46:49):
Yeah, sorry, I thought you were done.
How long did you stay in thatlifestyle before you came out of
it?

Speaker 3 (46:56):
I don't know an exact amount, but I have another part
of my testimony after thehomosexuality that had turned my
life around, it was a negativething, but it's kind of where I
came back to the cross and backto God's mercy.

(47:17):
So I came back home.
So I'm not, Um, it wasdefinitely a sin that, um, you
know God has delivered me fromtoday, and that's what I'm
thankful for.
Is that deliverance, you know,of no longer having to be bound

(47:39):
by that?
But, um, so you know the sayingis, hurt people, hurt people.
And I know that some people saythat's not true.
But if you're truly, if you'rewounded, you do hurt others
around you.
You know that you can't healany, help heal anyone, that when

(48:02):
you're broken and unhealedyourself, it's really, really
something that only God can dothrough his love.
And so my root cause was thesexual abuse and that had
festered in me.
And then all these effectsstarted happening afterwards, so
it didn't just stop athomosexuality.
The next part, you know well, Ialso was treating people wrong

(48:24):
through all this, you know, likeI had mentioned, and because
shame produces more shame, butso there was more and more
damage going on.
But it didn't just stop withhomosexuality.
So I didn't want to live in sinLike we were saying.
I didn't want to live like that.
But I was also not desperateenough to leave Egypt yet.

(48:49):
So, like Lot's wife, I didn'twant to leave the lifestyle that
I was choosing.
So I was deceived that sin gaveme something to make it to the
next day, which is so sad.
That a lot of people live theirlives like that, be it alcohol
or anything else, that justtakes you to the next day, which
is so sad that a lot of peoplelive their lives like that.
You know, be it alcohol oranything else, that just takes

(49:10):
you to the next day.
And then when you wake up youknow you're wondering where the
bottle is again, because you,just you start feeling.
And so another effect that Ihad from this root cause of
sexual abuse, which in somecases is directly related to
homosexuality, was suicidalthoughts, and the spirit of

(49:34):
suicide is the epitome ofdarkness, it's the darkest of
dark.
So when I have explained that Iwent from that light to dark, I
didn't realize that it couldget darker, but it did.
And so what's that?

Speaker 2 (49:51):
yeah, I was agreeing yeah.

Speaker 3 (49:54):
So um and it affects a lot of people, I probably more
than we even realize, becauseit's usually uns, not spoken um,
hell's ultimate uh plan is tostill kill and destroy.
So the temptations of it arevery dark and evil, you know,
when you don't even want to liveanymore.

(50:15):
So this was the darkest of darkthat I had ever experienced and
in this attempt to take my life, my life was drastically
changed.
When I was battling this spirit, I was shutting out at this
particular time, with thisattempt, I was shutting out

(50:36):
God's gentle voice, but Godintervened.
Even though I was like I'mgoing to do this.
God intervened for me, on mybehalf and showed me this vision
and in this, the atmosphere andtimes of just suicidal thoughts

(51:00):
, which is mainly what I had,god would switch this death to
life and it was spiritually oneof the most mind-blowing besides

(51:23):
receiving the power of the HolyGhost or the Spirit of God in
my life, powerful prayermeetings or prayer time that I
would have with God.
After I would call on Him andhe would turn it around for me,

(51:46):
just life-changing.
So in this moment I called, Iscreamed out Jesus, and that's
all I could barely get out atthis time is.
I just screamed out his nameand, because times passed, I had
you know when these temptationswould come.
I would talk with the Lord and,just you know, tell him he knew

(52:10):
.
But I would just talk to him,you know, and and he would
gently do his way of that onlyhe can do, of just kind of
slowly guiding me out of it.
It's like we were just tryingto get me out of this.
You know he would.
He was deemed corny, I'm hischild, and so on, but at this

(52:33):
particular time I screamed hisname out when he showed me this
vision.
I screamed his name out and hisname the power of his name,
holds all power, changedeverything for me and I've never
felt the love of God in thiskind of way.

(52:57):
I felt it in many ways, but thelove of God in this kind of way
where it takes you from deathand the darkest of dark to his
love and his light, absolutelyjust mind-boggling how he can
turn such a dark situation intolight, like only he can.

(53:18):
And you know, just as soon as Iwas able to to say the.
So for those that do go andstruggle through this spirit and
I know it's super sensitive andeveryone's different, but if

(53:38):
you could speak the name or justwhisper it, do what you need to
do to get the name of Jesus outof your mouth and call on Him,
he will help you turn thatsituation around.

Speaker 2 (53:56):
So Courtney, I'm trying to think of how to say
this.
I know you and I loveeverything that you're saying
and I know that as I've donethese episodes and I've
interviewed backsliders whenthey've been in these places, I

(54:22):
have noticed that many arereluctant to talk about the
details, and some of that isshame, and I think the other
part of it is they don't want togive any glory to the devil.
Yeah, I know that you've done alot of work on shame, so I

(54:43):
don't think that that'snecessarily true about you.
So I don't think that that'snecessarily true about you.
But, with that said, I thinkit's one thing to stand up in
church and testify about whatGod has done to a body of
believers who also know what Godhas done.
It's another thing to stand upand tell somebody when what

(55:06):
they're looking for is why am Igoing to listen to you?
I can't even relate to this.
What they're going to relate tois you know what?
That lie he said to you is thesame exact lie he said to me.
So the details really matter,because there are people that

(55:27):
are still stuck in, never eventelling another person that they
were sexually abused,especially men, men never even
talking about the abuse becauseit was by another man.
That shame is incredible.
They also don't are afraid.

(55:48):
I mean, in my job, people areso afraid to talk about the
voices that they hear because weknow them, we know that it's
the devil, but people that don'tknow it's the devil think that
they're crazy and, worse, theythink it's their own brain
telling them these things.
And so I apologize in advanceto just kind of dig into the

(56:21):
details, but I want anybody whohears this to know that you
understand, that we understandwhat it's like laying in your
bed at night and feeling likesomething's laying in bed with
you or there's a voice literallytelling you.
I've had people say that theyhad the voice tell them, go get

(56:41):
the knife out of the kitchendrawer and stab yourself in the
heart.
I actually knew someone whostabbed themselves in the heart
and died Like.
This is so very real and andyes, jesus is the answer period.
He is the everything, the end,all, the be all.

(57:02):
But we got to talk about wherepeople are living today, right
now, because this is a podcastto someone that has not come
home yet.
They're still stuck, they'restill out there, they are still
brokenhearted and still verywounded, feeling all the things
that you felt and hearing whatyou have been through will make

(57:30):
them feel they're not alone,like they're not the only ones.
And how much does everybodyfeel that way?
Because that's what the devilsays to us, right?
You're the only one.
No one's going to love youagain, no one's going to
understand you, no one will everlove you.
You know all of those things,and so, if you can talk a little

(57:52):
bit more about what youactually experienced you know
you don't have to give tons ofdetail, but I want to hear about
the wrestle.
I want to hear about what youstruggled with in your humanity

(58:14):
before you ever was able to comeback.
You had a place to come back to, and maybe somebody watching
this isn't a backslider.
They maybe just stumbled uponit.
They don't know anything aboutJesus, but they do know about
the wrestle.
So could you talk a little bitmore about the depravity that

(58:36):
all of this takes you to as ahuman?

Speaker 3 (58:41):
Yeah.
So I would say that, with thisunloved, this unworthy feeling
that sin and trauma had broughtme to, and because I didn't have
the power of the Holy Ghostliving inside of me to overcome,

(59:02):
you know, sin, because Jesus isthe only one that can do that
for us through his spirit.
Well, and I wasn't dying tomyself Will at this time, and so
I would say the biggest part ofthis for me was that this

(59:27):
darkness, like you were sayingthat you do wrestle with the,
the unworthy, the unloved um,you know why would I want to
stay and continue doing this forthe rest of my life?
Why would I want to hurt God,hurt people, um, for the rest of
my life.
So I started struggling withand then, of course, I had this

(59:51):
self-blame.
I had gone all these yearsblaming myself for the sexual
abuse of why I didn't dosomething about it.
Right, which is unfortunatethat so many do blame themselves
for that.
Right right and uh, and thenthat was sin in my life too.

(01:00:15):
Uh, I just I didn't feel anyworth.
I didn't feel like I had it hadbeen so such a while before I
had, since I had felt god's love, true love for me.
So without that that love in mylife, it was very dark not to
glorify, it just really was adark place to be in and a real
dark place to live in and in mymind and just in life around me.

(01:00:37):
And I would say that, you know,you say I'm love, you can say
the word unloved, but it justdoesn't describe what these
things do to your life.
Yeah.
When you do go through loss ofsomeone you're very close to and

(01:01:00):
someone that you love, and thenyou're sinning now.
And then you're sinning now and, yeah, you weren't looking for
the sin, but now you've fallenin sin and you're having a
struggle getting back up.
That's when I feel like I justdidn't want to make it to the
next day.
Yeah.

(01:01:21):
And so you know, like I said,for me mainly it wasn't a ton of
attempts or anything like that.
It was more of you know, thesethoughts and these temptations
and all of that.
But in this attempt that I didtry and I was definitely

(01:01:44):
determined it was going to bethis time, because I was very
angry at myself for not havingthe courage to follow through
times before overwhelmed by thespirit again, I should say,

(01:02:05):
because as soon as I would callout to God and he would help me
turn that situation around, thenI was thankful, of course, but
because I felt his, a touch ofhis love and his peace, which
was so opposite of what you knowI was feeling.
So, you know, I did always viewGod as, as a God of, even

(01:02:26):
though I had a good relationshipwith Him.
After the abuse, I would say, Istarted viewing God as, like
you know, just pointing hisfinger at me.
Yes.
And so it was probably the waymy perception was of feeling

(01:02:46):
unloved and all of that, and soI was viewing God wrong and I've
had to repent for that as well,and I know that it's all better
now, but thank the Lord, but atthis time, have you Go ahead?

Speaker 2 (01:03:02):
I want to pause there because I think that I think
religious culture overall cancause that punitive picture of
God not on purpose, of course,but we just gather that because
we have an understanding ofright and wrong.
But I think there's a lot ofpeople out there that do view

(01:03:26):
God as you know.
The God up there that's madbecause you're messing up and
he's going to punish you.
But I also think that that is away the devil twists who he
really is to cause us to believethat, because that's not at all
who he is.
But I think that that's part ofhis accusation.

(01:03:46):
When you're in this place thatcondemnation because of what is
taking place in your life youjust feel like you deserve that
right.

Speaker 3 (01:03:56):
Right.
So you know, even though I didview God in this kind of way, it
would always collide andcollide with the way that he
would make me feel in thesesituations.
I love that they clashed.
They clashed.
Yeah.
I viewed him this way, pointinghis finger at me, but then,

(01:04:20):
when I would feel his warmth andhis love, it didn't line up.
It was opposite of what how hemade me feel.

Speaker 2 (01:04:31):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:04:32):
And you know cause, in these moments he was hugging
me and now this was when I wouldbe able to, to reach out to him
.
And in this, this one attempt,when he showed me the vision, um
, um, in spite of me closing myears off to him because I was

(01:04:52):
determined I wanted to do itthis time and so I was trying to
shut that switch right Becausehe's not forceful, and so, but
in these moments, and especiallyin this story, In this story,

(01:05:15):
this is when everything startedchanging for me, because and
then after that, we could talkabout the restoration, but I had
this darkest of dark going onin my life, and I'll never
forget this day when he did showme the vision and he, it was
almost as if you know thatprodigal story where he's

(01:05:36):
waiting for running towards thesun, towards the prodigal.
He knew that I couldn't savemyself and he gave me the hope

(01:05:59):
of life when I didn't want tolive anymore.
And, um, just, it was beautifulthe way that he, he fought for
me and he, uh, like I was saying, the way that I viewed him,
just collided with him, and theway that he made me feel and,
and his word, you know, his word, showed me opposite, when I
would read it, um, of the waythat you know I wrongly viewed

(01:06:22):
him.
It would show me opposite ofthat and it was just powerful,
um, for those that do strugglewith this, it's absolutely, I do
understand it's.
It's a terrible spirit to fightagainst and only god can be the
true, the true, uh, victor ofthat.

(01:06:44):
Um, and that's why I do sayspeak the name if you can.
But, yeah, sometimes you're in adark place where you can't
speak, right, you don't want to,you really don't have the
strength to do much.
I've been there too.
But if you can even get onethought on God, one whisper to

(01:07:07):
Him, you know, one whisper tohim, you know, and if you can
get anything in that momentwhere you have that hope,
because then when he sweeps in,that hope is just, there's

(01:07:28):
really no other way to put it,it's just opposite of the
darkness that you feel andthat's encountered.
You know that you'reexperiencing in that moment.
So that love of God and thatpeace of God and that hope of
God that he's not sitting there,the way that we view him and we
hear him you know he's notdoing that, that the prodigal

(01:07:53):
father, you know, didn't didn'tsay how dirty he was, he just
welcomed him in, right, and yeah, you know the prodigal father
didn't didn't say you know youcan't come in, you need to sleep
outside, nothing like that.
He ran to him, hugged him,kissed his neck, brought him in
and they celebrated and heclothed him with the best robe.

(01:08:15):
And I love that story because itresembles the same thing as god
is waiting for you and godwants um, even at our darkest
places and our lowest places, hewants to be the one that he's

(01:08:35):
ready right there.
So I'm thankful that, in thissituation that happened in my
life, you know in this storythat this started really
revealing his love for me,because when someone can love
you when you are in a hot pen,when someone can give you hope,

(01:09:00):
when you feel hopelessness andshed light on you, even if it's
just a little bit in thedarkness, it's just no.
No, that's supernatural.
Only a God of grace can do that, because no other person could
have talked me out of that.
Right.
And no other person could havechanged my mind Absolutely no

(01:09:24):
one, and not even myself.
Like I said, I couldn't savemyself, so it was God that did
that, and it was God that showedme that, and it was God that
was fighting for me, and hewants to do that for everyone.
He comes to still kill anddestroy.
So that's his ultimate plan.

(01:09:52):
Is you know, if they're notbreathing, you know?
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:10:01):
What was the vision that he gave you that day?

Speaker 3 (01:10:06):
It's kind of personal , so I don't know if I'll go
into much detail.

Speaker 2 (01:10:09):
but you don't have to .
You don't know if I'll go intomuch detail, but you don't.
You don't have to, you don'thave to.
It was enough to kind of wakeyou up and yeah pay attention,
right, okay, how long would yousay that you had pondered
suicidal ideation before the daycame that you decided this is
it, I'm doing it this time yeah,yeah, how long.

Speaker 3 (01:10:31):
I would say that was probably.
Like I had mentioned before, Ireally feel like probably not
everyone's case so I don't wantto be quoted there, but
generally I've just in hearingdifferent people's stories with
the shame studies and things assuch, Homosexuality and suicide

(01:10:57):
are really related, I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:10:59):
Correlated yeah, yeah .

Speaker 3 (01:11:02):
Yeah.
So, whether they're justthoughts or attempts, or you
know, it's all dark.
Anyway, I would say that assoon as I fell into the sin of
homosexuality, that's when, notmuch later, the thoughts started
coming.
However, I would say that thethoughts started coming, they

(01:11:25):
were very mild.
The devil is ignorant, so it'slike it's.
I mean he is, but I'm sayinglike he knows that he needs to
be sly, so it didn't start out.
Oh yeah, just, you know, um, itwas very slow and gradual
because, um, I I had felt thehope that I could overcome this

(01:11:52):
at some point, the sin, you know, and so I think, these thoughts
of the unloved and unworthy andthe shame, when it started
growing through from sin, thenit started making me believe,
you know, want to give into thattemptation more, till it

(01:12:15):
brought me to this point whereyeah, I was.
I was determined to do it and itwas a beautiful thing when God
did step in like he did.

Speaker 2 (01:12:28):
Yeah, so I think it, it really illustrates how the
enemy works.
He does plant a little seed.
It hasn't manifested yet, ithasn't really grown into
full-fledged.
Sometimes it's just a passingthought until you begin to
entertain it and then you knowit looks different for everybody

(01:12:51):
, but then it becomes a veryreal option.
You know, for people becausethey have entertained that idea
for such a long time.
Till now there is a plan inplace and a willingness.
Yeah.
So so God miraculously steppedin and intervened.

Speaker 3 (01:13:12):
Yeah, like I said, in this moment God was really
starting to.
I mean, he was loving me allalong, because His love for us
is unconditional and doesn'tchange whether we are in sin or
not.
But I believe that with thisblock that I had of Him allowing

(01:13:33):
him to love me, the way that hewanted to love me, started
changing and it started feelinglike this was going to turn.
After this situation, when thefather does show up in a way,

(01:13:58):
like how he did, I started inthis at this time, started
feeling a little bit of thatinnocency and that, you know,
that love that he had for me,and I started to try and
actually believe that.
So I feel like something wasopened then and I was because I

(01:14:20):
had felt his love so stronglythis night and I hadn't felt it
in that kind of way since I wasyounger, you know, and it was in
a different way.
So, you know, they were greattalks with the Lord.
I don't know if I could say thebest in my entire life, but

(01:14:41):
this particular night, when heshowed up for me in the way that
he did, I just I think justpart of that block just started.
Even if it was a couple bricks.
It started opening up to whereI was like how could this not be
love for me, right?

Speaker 2 (01:15:05):
right.

Speaker 3 (01:15:05):
Yeah, Undeniable, to where again, the way that I
viewed God, the way that Iviewed myself, it all started
kind of becoming or crumblingdown when I started to feel even
a little bit of His love for me.
And just a beautiful.

(01:15:28):
His love is so beautiful, he islove and it's the most
beautiful thing to know abouthim is the love that he truly
has for his children.
Right.
Right For all.
He died for all.
So this, the shame study byChester Wright, I get.

(01:15:48):
I have the privilege toactually teach this in some
classes and it's amazing.
It definitely was life-changingfor me.
But it helped me to go back tothis root cause and deal with
the sexual abuse that I hadnever really thought about.

(01:16:08):
I mean, it was on my mind everyday, but I'm saying like I
wasn't trying to process it ortake care of it, I just it was
on that back burner.
It was tormenting, but I justlay it in the back of my mind.
You know it's in there, butit's just in the back.
And this study I was able to dothis study and or go through

(01:16:31):
this study and it drasticallychanged my life.
I wasn't instantly delivered, Iwasn't any of those things
instantly healed or anythinglike that.
It was a slow process for mebut it really changed my life in
the sense of it.
It took me back to deal withthat trauma, the traumatic event

(01:16:54):
that really was the root causeof all these effects going on in
my life.
And once I started dealing withthis root of the sexual abuse,
then God just ordered the stepsafter that.
He just paved the way for me toknow where my next step was.
And I didn't, you know, I can't, like I said, I can't say that

(01:17:19):
I instantly was, you know?
Oh, my past is erased.
To him when I repent it was, butfor me.
I was still dealing with allthe things.

Speaker 4 (01:17:30):
Yes, yes, pit it was, but for me I was still dealing
with all the things.

Speaker 3 (01:17:32):
But, yes, yes, but this took me back to deal with
that root that needed to bepulled out of my life and, um,
you know, like I said, once Istarted dealing with that root,
then then God just reallyordered the steps after now,
after that, how did you finallypull the root out?

(01:17:58):
I would say that God reallyhelped me to truly forgive that,
because I had walked all thoseyears too, not only angry at him
, the abuser, angry at myself.
I had a lot of anger towardsmyself and I would say

(01:18:23):
forgiveness played the biggestpart in that, which was only
from God, because we can'tforget situations like that.
Just Right, just naturally inour own mind, right, it's
definitely a God thing when hecan forgive through us, and I
believe that a lot of that camefrom forgiveness.

(01:18:44):
Easier said than done.

Speaker 2 (01:18:49):
Well.

Speaker 3 (01:18:49):
I think it's a letting go of of an anger that's
, you know and human nature,well-deserved Right.
So it's it's painful but it'salso a very beautiful thing and

(01:19:12):
I allowed God to clean thatinfection out.
That wound from my childhoodjust festered and it infected my
whole being, and spiritually.
That's what it did to me andthat's why I'm so big on the
root cause because I've beenthrough that experience myself
is that when you go and you takecare of the root cause, then

(01:19:37):
the effects start diminishing,with God's help.
But, forgiveness was huge and,like I said, none of this is my
glory, none of this is my doing,because I really had to have
the Lord's help for this, asmany do when it's something like

(01:19:58):
sexual abuse, it has to be aGod thing, because there's a lot
of anger there that you don'twant to let go of because you
have a right, because you have aright and so that he, he's so
gracious because he, in his ownway, again, god just gently

(01:20:23):
guided me through that.
It wasn't a one-time deal,because still still, you know
I'm triggered by.
You know my abuser's dead andgone and still you're triggered
by that unforgiveness again.
You know, look how many yearsof my life he took from me.
Look at you know why did he dothat?
You know the simple thoughts,even sometimes.

(01:20:45):
And forgiveness, once you learnthat, once you learn how
beautiful it can be in your lifebecause it frees yourself.
You know the scripture saysrelease, release and you will be
released.
You know, free it and you'll beset free.
When it says condemn not andyou won't be condemned.

(01:21:07):
And so forgive and you will beforgiven.
And so forgive and you will beforgiven.
You know the translations ofthat are beautiful.
I love the release and you'llbe released.
And it's not according towhether they're worthy of that
or not, it's just you do it forGod's sake.
He died for that and soforgiveness was the big one

(01:21:31):
there and it's probably whattook me the longest to really
die to myself.
Will on that one, and I'm surea lot of people can understand
that.

Speaker 2 (01:21:43):
Yeah, I think a lot of people think and believe and
have forgiven things like this.
They think that they'veforgiven them and moved on, and
I've heard that a lot.
Oh, I've forgiven them.
But you could see that thereare when unforgiveness is really

(01:22:03):
there.
It does have effects and Ithink something like this,
courtney, does require asupernatural ability that comes
from God to really forgive.
Our part is exactly what yousaid a second ago the dying to
yourself, the willingness torelease it into God's hands, and

(01:22:28):
then there is a supernaturalability.
I believe he just really takesit from us.
He just takes it and lifts thatoff of us.
But, like you said, forgivenessis also something we have to do
continually, every time we'retriggered, every time we feel it

(01:22:50):
we have to remember.
Okay, I've forgiven that, I've.
I've moved beyond that I'm justgonna push that away and let it
go, because the enemy's alwaysgonna want to bring anything
back to pull us back right.
So I love how you, how you, howyou clarified that and said
that, yeah.

(01:23:12):
And so, since you were able toget that root out, another I
think a very important point tomake is where you're at today,
in your ministry, in your walkin your life.
Do you think it would existwithout what you've been through
?

Speaker 3 (01:23:33):
no, and I have a lot of thoughts on that.
I don't know if I'll get intothem because they're kind of
between me and the lord, but, um, I have questions to him
sometimes.
You know about, I don't believethat anything.

Speaker 2 (01:23:52):
I do not believe that and I know that nothing, such
as sexual abuse, comes from thatsin of human nature, man, and
the enemy is planned right but,he does promise to make all
things good yeah and I think I'mbringing it up and you don't

(01:24:14):
have to share your personal, buthe does promise to make all
things good.
Yeah, and I think I'm bringingit up and you don't have to
share your personal questionsthat you have, but I'm bringing
it up to show purpose, becauseour ministry is often in the
place of our greatest heartache,often in the place of our

(01:24:36):
greatest heartache.
And because what the enemy meantfor evil, god will use for good
.
And so no one is going to dowhat you can do for the kingdom
and for others, because no oneeven though other people have
been abused, no one is going tohave your testimony, your story,
your empathy, your insight,your understanding except for

(01:25:00):
you.
And isn't it amazing thatnothing is ever wasted with God.
You are such a beautiful personwith a beautiful family.
You have your own podcastministry, your own ministry
inside a church.

(01:25:20):
You have your own ministry outto the world with music and what
you're doing with other people,and it's because of where
you've been that you can show upin this way.
You know, and yes, you're right, god doesn't.
God doesn't do any of that.
Evil is evil, but if we allowGod into our pain, then he can

(01:25:47):
take us through the process andmake it then he can take us
through the process and make itsomething beautiful in the end.

Speaker 3 (01:25:55):
Absolutely, yeah, I love that.
So I allowed God to clean thisinfection out and let him heal
this properly to where it justbecame a scar, this sexual abuse
.
I can talk about it now.
There's not that anger, there'snot that.
You know, isn't that abeautiful thing?
And the thoughts are hardlythere, it's so dim.

(01:26:16):
Because it was so infected forso many years.
But now that it's online aswell, I just want to share with
others these things.
Look at the scar and see whatGod can do for you.

Speaker 2 (01:26:41):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:26:41):
Because everybody has wounds in some kind of way.
Everybody has different traumashappen in their life, big or
small, and we're all affected bylife because life is, you know,
the ruler of darkness, ispresent, and our humanity and
all of that.
And so there's these traumasand problems in our life.

(01:27:04):
You know, we're not going to beexempt from that until Jesus
comes, but he gives us that hopeand that grace to overcome that
through his spirit Right.
So allowing God to do that andthen sharing your.
I love what you're doing,because our testimonies are not

(01:27:24):
meant to be in vain.

Speaker 2 (01:27:26):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:27:26):
No, right, right.
Yeah, they're not meant to bein vain, and I always want to
share mine wherever I can, youknow because?
And so I love this opportunity.
Thanks again so much for theinvite, because it's really
giving God glory for all that hedid.

(01:27:48):
Now we think of the 10 lepers,and there was only one that came
back and thanked him for whathe had done.
And then he was made whole, youknow.
So we do overcome by the bloodof the lamb and by the word of
our testimony.
And so I think, it's a beautifulthing that somebody like you

(01:28:09):
and then you know others thatshare their testimony like this.
It is relatable because we'veall been through different
things and it might not be thesame exact thing, but there's
just so much hope, hearing ofwhat God can do in somebody's
life.
And yeah, my family God'sblessed me with the most

(01:28:30):
beautiful family and the kids ofmine.
My kids God's used them throughmy restoration.
It's amazing.
That's why I know age doesn'tmatter, because they are
innocent and pure and they havethat childlike faith and they'll

(01:28:52):
pray over me, they'll speakover me and you know, I don't
want to say that I'm the kid inthe household, but they're just
spiritually mature.
Yeah right.
They haven't quite encounteredthat darkness, so they've been
protected from that and ofcourse every parent does what

(01:29:15):
they can to protect them fromthat.
But, they have this genuine walkwith the Lord and it's just
beautiful that God not onlydelivered me and saved my soul,
but he also added on some extrabonus blessings and they pray
for me.

(01:29:35):
When I've had sad days of griefor loss, they'll pray for me.
My husband's been amazing.
He has the family pray for me.
We make sure the house is.
We have the spirit of God inour house.
For other people that come inthat are broken and want to feel
His spirit, just feel it whenthey walk in.

(01:29:57):
No, it's undeniable.
So my family has been anamazing blessing to me and kids
have been very supportive withCreative Studio and how I am
trying to to say my testimony.
Let my testimonies be out thereand help somebody, but also let

(01:30:20):
others speak their testimonies.
Everybody has a powerful storywhen they return to their
father's house.
Like that's already just amiracle and a beautiful story,
no matter how it is.
When they make it back home andnow I came to God before I came
to the church building.
But when they make it back toGod, our.
Father, it is the biggestmiracle that God brought back

(01:30:49):
into his life.

Speaker 2 (01:30:49):
It really is, it really really is.
Yeah, it really is, yeah, itreally is.

Speaker 3 (01:30:53):
Yeah, so it's something to be celebrated.

Speaker 2 (01:30:56):
Yeah, I think I heard this many years ago and it
helped me where I was at.
But it said, he said, thepreacher said, the deeper that
you go in despair, the depthsdown that you go is only an

(01:31:18):
indication of the height thatyou will go.
Because every time they build askyscraper, before the
skyscraper ever reaches itsglorious height, they dig miles
and miles and miles intocreative foundation.
And that blessed me so muchbecause I felt like I was in my

(01:31:41):
own life.
My own story had been so low,and so it was very encouraging.
But that's why I also like totalk about the depths that
people live in, because that issuch the glorious, miraculous
work of God when he pulls themout.

(01:32:03):
But what I was alluding to withyou getting the Holy Ghost at
three, the Holy Ghost at three Ifelt like that was a special
thing.
I felt like that was aGod-ordained thing.
I felt that that was anuncommon thing, and maybe it's
becoming more common, but I feltlike that was just a little

(01:32:26):
jewel for you to hold on to,because the Lord knew you know,
he, he, he sees the end from thebeginning.
He knew what you would face andhe gave you a foundation that
would eventually bring you back,ultimately, to him.

(01:32:47):
So I I think it's beautifulwhen people get the Holy Ghost
at such a young age.
My first thought is it's goingto carry them through whatever
is coming in their life.
God just so miraculously gaveit to them here in order to

(01:33:07):
carry them and, knowing theywould, I know wherever they're
at, they will come back, becauseI just believe that I believe
if.
God begins a good work in us, hewill complete it, and there's
such comfort in that, no matterwhere they're at, as far away as
they might be, and so I hopethat that didn't sound offensive

(01:33:32):
or negative in any way.
I was just trying to allude tohow unique and very special and
pure and innocent and sensitiveto the Spirit of God that you
must have been to be able to soeasily receive that at such a
beautiful age.
You know.

(01:33:52):
Yeah.
I, I, I think, uh, I thinkthrough all of it and I know
that you know this now.
God has always had you, butit's wonderful to look back and
see all of the places when youdidn't know he had you, that he
really had you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

(01:34:27):
And I think, I wonder, courtney, because you just said
something I think about oftenand one day I'm going to do a
podcast on it.
I know that we have to die toourself and ourself will turn
that over to God, but I alwayswonder, lord, what's coming

(01:34:53):
first?
Because when trust is brokenthrough violation, we lose trust
for everybody.
Trust is broken for everybody.
When we are wounded to thatdegree, we don't trust anybody,
let alone trust God, because youdidn't believe he loved you.
So for anyone listening, I justwant to say that if you could

(01:35:19):
just take a step to believe,what if God really loves you?
What if all the stories aboutGod are actually true, the good
ones, not the bad ones that hereally does love you?
What if you could just gambleon that, take a risk on that,
test him.
The Bible says test him andtaste him and see that he's

(01:35:42):
sweet, right.
Everything else comes after,because that crossroads of
surrender that you're talkingabout is not so difficult when
you encounter his love.
It's just so much easier.

(01:36:03):
Does it prick us?
Yes, are we aware of what thatis going to mean?
Yes, but when you just reallycome face to face with the love
of God, like you did, die intoyourself, I think it's the most
beautiful thing.
It's like you said it's theonly way we really get to live.

(01:36:26):
It's the only way we really getto receive everything he
created us to be and have.
You know, the devil, just asyou said, he just taints it, he
just twists it all up and hemakes it something so very
different than what it truly,truly is in God.
So so, courtney, I always endwith two questions.

(01:36:50):
What do you want to say to thebackslider who might be out
there?
It's distorting.
So, courtney, I always end withtwo questions.
What do you want to say to thebackslider who might be out
there who might sharesimilarities to your story?

Speaker 3 (01:37:00):
What do you want to say to them?
Yeah, know that you're notalone, know that we feel that
way when we're away from God.
But hearing stories like thiscan lift your faith too, because
we feel so alone when we'reaway from God, but you're not.
Those feelings are realsometimes, but that doesn't with

(01:37:35):
stories that have encounteredthe love of God in those kind of
areas.
That is meant for you as well.
God loves you the same way Godloves us so much, and you're
loved.
You're not alone and the Fatheris waiting for you, and the
Father is waiting for you.
God is our Father, andsomething switched with me when
I started getting my healing,and that was he wasn't just God

(01:38:00):
to me, and that's powerful, thathe was my Father and when you
view.
Him.
When you're able to view, justlike you were saying, kathy,
like a slight belief of maybe hedoes love me.
When you start to believe thatlove that he has for you, it

(01:38:21):
definitely turns everythingaround.
And yes, it does.
He draws us to repentance.
So his love for us changeseverything.
And so I think that, above all,I would tell you that you're
loved and you're not alone,because those are two of the
biggest feelings you know, andyou also face a lot of fear when

(01:38:43):
you're away from God, and Godwants you in his arms.
He misses you, he loves you, hedoesn't want you anywhere but
in his arms.
So come home to him, come home.

Speaker 2 (01:39:01):
And life gets better.
And life gets better.

Speaker 3 (01:39:07):
It does.

Speaker 2 (01:39:08):
Yeah, so much better.
Once he touches it, yep.
What would you say to theparent who has a child or a
spouse or a loved one out there?

Speaker 3 (01:39:23):
You know I haven't walked through that and so I
can't talk from experience, butI can talk about what I needed,
you know, in my time away fromGod, and that was, again, love.
So pray for them, of course,but allow God's love to be in

(01:39:45):
you.
As you know, a parent, a friendI think you had asked about a
parent as you know a parent, afriend I think you had asked
about a parent allow God's loveto be in you so it can come out,
it can ooze out of you and theycan feel that love of God,

(01:40:05):
because when they're in thatdarkness, there's no light
around them besides what we haveliving inside of us, that they
can, can, it can, it can shineon them and give them a little
bit of light.
And so again, god's love, it'sso big.
It's so big.
It's life changing, the lovethat he has for us.
So love, love them back home.
That's what I would say is lovethem back home.

(01:40:27):
Love them back home.
And also, you know my side ofthe compassion and empathy would
be to be easy on yourself,because I know that you know

(01:40:48):
some people start blamingthemselves for their child's
walk from God, and nocondemnation comes from Christ.
No condemnation at all, and solet him guide you.
Let him again.
I haven't experienced this, soI don't necessarily want to tell
you what to do.
I'm just saying what I neededas a prodigal was just to be

(01:41:11):
loved back.
Loved back home.
That's good, Courtney.
It's as simple as that God'slove, not human love, which
takes His spirit.
So God's love loving them backhome and obviously the prayers
for them.
Don't stop that because prayersthat my mom and dad prayed for

(01:41:31):
me and many others brought meback home yeah, All right
Prayers.

Speaker 2 (01:41:38):
Well, thank you, courtney.
You're beautiful.
I'm excited to see what elseGod has in store for you,
because all this new business isnew.
So I know she's got music onAmazon.
Her social media is CreativeStudio on Instagram and Facebook

(01:41:59):
, so follow her.
She's amazing.
Thank you, courtney, god blessyou.

Speaker 3 (01:42:06):
Thank you so much, god bless.

Speaker 1 (01:42:09):
We are so glad you joined us.
If you have a story ofredemption or have worn the
label of a backslider, so muchGod bless.
We hope you will tune in forour next episode.