Surviving Sexual Abuse: TRB#18- Christine Molano

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Christine Milano's raw testimony of trauma, addiction, and redemption leaves no stone unturned as she recounts her journey from childhood sexual abuse to spiritual freedom. Beginning at just three years old, Christine endured sexual abuse that would continue until she was ten, creating deep wounds she'd carry silently for decades. This early trauma manifested in a profound belief that she was unloved, leading to self-harm, dissociation, and two suicide attempts that her family barely knew about.

Despite finding moments of joy through motherhood, Christine's unhealed wounds drew her into destructive relationships. For ten years, she endured severe domestic violence in her second marriage with a meth-addicted spouse who broke her nose and choked her multiple times. When that relationship finally ended, alcohol became her escape. What began as social drinking quickly spiraled into severe alcoholism, with Christine drinking vodka straight and receiving three DUIs in a single year.

Tune in to hear the miraculous comeback as God intervened and completely delivered her!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Redeemed Backslider with your
host, kathy Chastain.
Christian-based psychotherapistand Redeemed Backslider.
This podcast is dedicated tothose who have wandered but are
ready to return to thelife-changing power of grace and
the freedom found in Jesus.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Hi, welcome to the Redeemed Backslider.
I'm your host, Kathy Chastain.
I'm a Christian-basedpsychotherapist and also a
Redeemed Backslider.
With me in the studio today ismy friend, Christine Milano.
So, Christine, welcome.

Speaker 3 (00:38):
Thank you, thank you for having me.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
So I know that we've talked a little bit about how
hard it is to come in,especially when you're a newly
redeemed backslider, how hard itis to come in and kind of share
your story and the trepidationof putting everything out on
front street that you know we'vewalked through when we were in

(01:04):
the world.
So I just want to say thanksfor your willingness to come in
and be transparent.

Speaker 3 (01:12):
I know it must be difficult to me and hopefully,
whatever I share resonates withyou.
Know people that have struggledwith trauma or addiction,
because those are the thingsthat I struggled with right.

Speaker 2 (01:35):
So what?
What age were you when you,when your family got in church,
when you guys got picked up onthe bus route, what?
What was your age when youstarted going for the first time
?

Speaker 3 (01:48):
um, I I kind of say like um, when we got picked up
on the bus, um, I want to say Iwas like five or six years old,
because me and my brother like ayear apart, okay, and that
probably happened like a coupleof times I I don't really in my
mind, I don't think that that'swhere the church came into my

(02:11):
life.
It was more for me like around10 or 12 years old, and that was
the time when my mom gave herlife to the Lord.
Okay, mom gave her life to theLord.
Okay, and that was like aturning point in our family's

(02:34):
life, in our household, that Iseen that things began to change
like hope or for the better,because prior to that of 10 or
12 years old, there was well,there was five of us.
At the time my younger sisterwasn't, she wasn't born, so at
that time I was the youngestdaughter.
My brother was the youngest.
He only had one son and thenthree older sisters and my mom

(02:59):
and dad.
They had already had theirstruggles like with marriage,
and it was in the 70s, and sothe 70s was like disco and you
know, my parents were young and,um, they kind of liked the
night life and how old how oldwas your mom when she had her
first child?

Speaker 2 (03:19):
do you know?
I want to say she was 19 okay,and by the time you came along,
because you were number four,she was still in three or
something.

Speaker 3 (03:28):
Yeah, yeah, she was, as is very young yeah, she was
very young and um, so her and mydad, you know they had their
own marital struggles as a, youknow, young couple, but, um, my
dad was a great provider.
He was very protective of usand very strict, because all the
girls that he had and, uh, mymom was a stay-at-home mom, okay

(03:49):
, yeah, so, um, but like goingforward to when I was 10, that's
, um, they had their ownstruggles of like maybe domestic
violence a little bit and, um,growing up in that environment
kind of left us always scared,or you know what would that look
like?

Speaker 2 (04:09):
what did you guys experience?

Speaker 3 (04:10):
what did you experience as a um, just um, you
know, fighting, arguing didn'treally know what was really
going on, but um, the way theyfound happiness was going out to
with friends and drinking andstuff like that.
Yeah.
So it was a lot of that.

(04:31):
We didn't go to church oranything like that.
But for me, I think I had a lotgoing on in my head from early
years.
Um, probably, like when I thinkabout it, I was thinking that,
maybe because I know it wasbefore they like I went to
school, kindergarten.

(04:52):
So I would say like maybe threeor four and um, why did you
notice it?
Three or four um well, at thattime I was uh touched
inappropriately on multipleoccasions and wow, and you, you
have memory of that yeah, I havea wall.

(05:14):
The earliest memory I have, um,I must have been about three or
four, because I know it wasbefore I started school yeah and
um, and it was probably four orfive times, but it, um, it
happened between you know thatearly age to the time I was 10.

Speaker 2 (05:31):
So so it was ongoing, mm-hmm.
Was it the same person?
Or was it Same person?
Okay?

Speaker 3 (05:37):
Same person.
It was somebody my family knew,my parents knew, and it was.
It was somebody my family knew.

Speaker 2 (05:44):
And did anyone in the family know?
Did you keep that a secret?

Speaker 3 (05:48):
I kept it a secret.
Yeah, I kept it a secret, andthe impact that it left on me
was just so heavy oh yeah yeah,it was so heavy, um, I I didn't
believe that I was loved andthat was like my early childhood

(06:09):
.
I I just didn't believe it andum, I struggled with that, um,
from a young age so this personhad access to you pretty
regularly, consistently.
They didn't live in the sametown, so we would go to their

(06:34):
home and I remember at first itstarted like a hug but it was
more of a hug.
It was more of a hug and it waslike a forceful thing that
progressed and um is that whenyou got older?
no, it was during that time.

(06:55):
Um, I just remember like beinga little girl and you know it
was I we were like really, youknow, kids that listened, we
were well behaved, um, so for meit was just like I just stood
there and froze and kind of justmy mind went somewhere else,

(07:17):
like I was just out of like whenpeople say you're out of body.
Um, that's associated.
Yeah, that's what it wouldhappen to me.
And um, you know, um, differenttimes it would happen.
I always thought that maybe ithappened to my sister, um,

(07:37):
because I remember a time when,you know, we were both there
together, but then she was gone,and so I always kept it to
myself until maybe about maybeseven years ago, when I had told
her hey, do you remember whenso-and-so did this?
And she said no, that neverhappened to me oh and I said

(07:58):
what?
and?
And then I knew it was just, itwas just me, but it was.
I just thought, oh well, sheknows, and we just never talk
about it.

Speaker 2 (08:09):
So, christine, you didn't feel loved in your
childhood, even during thatmolestation.
You didn't feel loved Because Iknow that some people, when
they're molested as children,get very confused.
That that is love, that thatmakes them feel special.

(08:30):
You know up looking for that.
They become sexualized reallyyoung.
They grow up being verypromiscuous as a result of that

(08:52):
because they've associated thatwith a feeling of love or
feeling wanted.
So for you it didn't feel thatway.
For you you were very aware.

Speaker 3 (09:06):
It did at certain times, because my siblings joke
around and say, hey, do youremember that time when you were
in the bushes sitting down withthis one certain boy and you
were kissing and I was maybelike five years old, maybe like
five years old, and I rememberwanting attention from you?

(09:26):
Know, like boys.
Boys.
And being just sit right nextto them and didn't know what you
know, and it was at a young age, yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:35):
Yeah, yeah.
How did that affect you goingthrough elementary school?
I mean, did you notice that youwere boy crazy?
Did you have any behavioralproblems at that time?

Speaker 3 (09:48):
Yeah, I did.
Well, me and my brother havealways been close and so I felt
like I overreacted.
Not that I wanted to be a boy,but I wanted to be brave and I
just had problems in schoollearning.
I couldn't focus, I didn't wantto go to school and I think my

(10:12):
mom had problems with me becauseit was like she's disobedient
or you know, she doesn't listenand she don't want to go to
school and I can't make her.
And I was just you know, and itwas because I had never told
her and I can't make her, and Iwas just you know, and it was
because I had never told her andI couldn't focus in school at
all yeah so the dissociation,did that begin to happen more,

(10:34):
even when you weren't beingmolested?

Speaker 2 (10:37):
so would you just dissociate in normal life day?

Speaker 3 (10:41):
to day yeah, and that that grew so much.

Speaker 2 (10:47):
Can you talk about that a little bit?

Speaker 3 (10:49):
Yeah, so I I always say, like man, I always talk to
myself and I didn't know ifthat's normal or not, but, um, I
think the shame of it thatweighed on me so much and I kind
of I don't know if I denied thethings that happened or I don't
really know what was going onwith me.

(11:10):
I just felt a little numb so Ibegan to cut myself without
anybody knowing.
How old were you In?
Elementary is all I know.
I know it was before I got tomaybe high school or middle
school no, maybe middle school.
I began to have little scarswhere I used to cut myself and

(11:31):
see how far I could get and Iwould cut myself just because I
thought maybe I couldn't talk toanybody.

Speaker 2 (11:38):
So that would have been in like the 1970s.

Speaker 3 (11:42):
Yeah, it was.
I know that that happened inthe 70s and the 80s.

Speaker 2 (11:45):
Yeah, but I mean cutting.
We didn't hear about cuttingback then.
I mean, I was young so if itwas happening, obviously I
wouldn't have exposure to that.
But you know, we just startedhearing about cutting in the
last you know, really um alittle pre-covid.

Speaker 3 (12:06):
So, like 2018-19 is when cutting really began to be
um more mainstream it was um Iwould get like a safety pin and
I would just begin to wow andcut my thigh or poke my thigh,
and just you know I, I it justum.

Speaker 2 (12:30):
Nobody ever knew um what I was doing so I imagine
you had a lot of intrusivethoughts.
Do you remember?
Do you remember what youstruggled with mentally in your
mind?

Speaker 3 (12:42):
Yeah, the turmoil and the mental thing that I
struggled with was that nobodyloved me.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:52):
So what did that look like?
How did that play out?

Speaker 3 (12:56):
I think one time, you know, I was crying Like I was
always this crybaby and I don'tknow if it was for attention or
you know, but I was, I was.
That's the way I.

Speaker 2 (13:08):
I would cry a lot and why would you think it was for
attention?
I find that interesting.
You would automatically defaultto that.
What makes you think you criedfor attention?

Speaker 3 (13:21):
I think, because sometimes you hear that you know
as a child yeah, you hear that.
Or you know as a child yeah,you hear that.
Or you know behave, act right.
And I just couldn't, you know,I just couldn't say what
happened.

Speaker 2 (13:33):
And that that's my point is that parents you know,
I'm a parent as well we do a lotof damage because we don't
understand.
But I tell parents now, youknow when children are crying
it's not for attention.
If children are crying, they'recrying.
It may not seem obvious, youmay not know why, but I don't

(13:57):
think you know.
Probably 95% of the time kidsare not faking crying.
Probably 95% of the time kidsare not faking crying.
So it makes me sad that youwould have that automatic belief
system that maybe you arecrying for attention because, no
, you are wounded.

Speaker 3 (14:16):
You are hurting.
Yeah.
And so I think that way too.
Now, you know, when I seesomebody crying what's wrong,
you know I want to get down toit because I I think about the
things that I went through right.
So I'm just, I just naturallylike something's, something's
wrong, what is it?
You know, I try to get that out, but, um, I couldn't at that

(14:39):
time and I couldn't, you know,talk to anybody about it.

Speaker 2 (14:43):
And you didn't talk to your brother, even though you
guys were close.

Speaker 3 (14:46):
No, we didn't.
Nobody, we didn't speak aboutit.
I didn't speak about it toanybody.

Speaker 2 (14:52):
Yeah, and you know for anyone watching, I've said
this before, I'm going to say itagain Sexual child as sexual
abuse in children.
In 2001, the statistics were 6out of 10.
Or 2025, over 24 years ago.

(15:13):
I believe those statistics haveincreased quite a bit, but the
common denominator is that it isalways kept a secret.
So if anyone is out therewatching and you have been
abused as a child in any way, itdoesn't have to be sexual abuse
.
It could have been verbal abuse,physical abuse, any kind of

(15:36):
abuse that has caused you tofeel less than as a person.
You know, maybe talk to theLord about it and ask him for
courage to start kind of digginginto your history, because it
is the one place that the enemycan keep us trapped and really

(15:58):
keep you stuck.
Even though you might want tolive for God, you might want to
do all the right things, theshame of that exposure and it is
devastating for most, and youknow what's so unfortunate is
that the ones that are actuallyvictimized.
You know they're innocent andyet they are the ones that live

(16:21):
with the most repercussions.
So tell your spouse, tell yourparent, tell your friend, tell
somebody.
Cross that threshold of fearand just tell somebody so that
you can begin to heal, because Ibelieve that the Lord is trying
to expose these things inpeople for them to heal, so that

(16:42):
we could ultimately release itto him, and we can't release it
if the enemy keeps it hidden.

Speaker 3 (16:50):
Right, and I think too that the enemy puts those
thoughts in your mind that forme I was always like well, I
don't want to be known as this.
Know this poor, you know avictim, I don't want to have
that, you know, thought of.
You know what people say rightabout that.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
But you probably didn't want anyone to feel sorry
for you or have pity right,right because, like you said you
were trying to be strong.
Yeah, so did.
Did that?
Did you continue to sort ofpeople, please in your early
years and just you know, kind ofsay yes to things and go with
the flow?
Um, because I did, I mean I wasnot abused but, um, my, my not

(17:38):
feeling loved and all of thosethings led me to rebellion.
I fought.
In our central nervous systemwe fight flight, which means
leave or freeze.
So I always fought and left andother people just kind of
freeze and get stuck.
So it sounds like you just kindof froze and did whatever

(18:04):
anybody told you.

Speaker 3 (18:05):
Yeah, I froze.
There was like differentperiods where I froze, Then I
fought.
Like you saying that, it justdescribed a lot of things that I
rebelled.
But you know, Ahad did so muchdamage to me by the time I was

(18:26):
16, I had attempted suicide.
Oh, wow.
And you know, nobody knew.

Speaker 2 (18:34):
Were you at that time , christine, able to connect the
dots?
I mean, did you know that yourstruggles were rooted in your
sexual abuse, or were you juststruggling with loneliness and
torment in the mind?
Yeah did you ever connect thedots?

Speaker 3 (18:51):
no, okay, I never connected the dots because I
just wanted to forget that thathappened right and fun people do
that and the fact that thefamily knew that person was,
they spoke highly of them.
You never felt like you and Ijust like oh yeah, you know
they're a great person orwhatever.

Speaker 2 (19:13):
Was that person in church or not in church?
They were in church.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (19:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:20):
That makes me sick.

Speaker 3 (19:22):
Yeah, so you know that happens at 16.

Speaker 2 (19:31):
How did you attempt?
What happened?

Speaker 3 (19:34):
I had decided that I'm going to drink every pill in
the bottle that I had.
I had a bottle of Tylenol.
I drank all of them.
I also drank some other pillsthat were in the bathroom and it
just made me sick.

Speaker 2 (19:54):
How long do you think you were thinking about suicide
before you actually attempted?

Speaker 3 (20:01):
I couldn't tell you.
Maybe a year.

Speaker 2 (20:03):
A while.

Speaker 3 (20:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:06):
Did you.
When you look back at it, canyou see its progression?
Mm-hmm.
Okay, I was just curious howthat unfolded for you.

Speaker 3 (20:16):
I think it progressed even more because at this time,
you know, mom got in church atwhen I was 10 or 12 I want to
say around there, maybe 12, butum, at first I wasn't.
I didn't wear like skirts oranything.

(20:36):
I was still like I'm, I'm stilla little girl, I'm 12, I'm
still, you know, kind oftomboyish or whatever.
Play outside with my brother.
I found a lot of solace withplaying with kids outside and
back then we were young andthat's what kids did.
It is yeah.
Yeah, so with the church theyadded for the rules.

(20:59):
I think I was so rebelliousbecause I felt like they were
trying to control me.

Speaker 2 (21:07):
Right, and I'm so glad you said that, because when
you've been a victim and you'resurviving, you're in survival
mode.
The last thing you need or wantis someone to control you
because you've already beenvictimized.
And it would feel a lot of thesame, it would feel really

(21:27):
similar.
So that's interesting.
I really wonder.
You know, I'm always curious aswhere the root of rebellion
comes in at, for kiddos and forpeople when they leave church,
right.
But I think what you just saidreally makes sense.

(21:51):
You know, and I think for peopleout there pastors, other church
people, like if you came from asafe home it's very difficult
to understand that a little8-year-old, a little 6-year-old,
a little 10-year-old, a little10-year-old, a little
12-year-old could already havelived such a horrific life that

(22:13):
their noncompliance with thingsis not because they're
necessarily trying to berebellious, it's just the
survival right.
But then it shows up inrebellion because you said you
wanted to be brave and I thinkwhen we've been a victim it does
create that need for safety.

(22:34):
We're looking for safety.
So we began to form thisexterior to try to maybe keep
people away.

Speaker 3 (22:43):
You know what I'm saying?
Like a wall.

Speaker 2 (22:45):
Yeah, I always think of like biker dudes.
You know the one percentersthey're probably the weakest and
most vulnerable people becausethey've worked so hard to create
this false persona of strength.
And when girls are attracted tothe bad boy, it's because the
girls are looking for strength.
They're never going to find itthere because it's a false sense

(23:09):
of strength.
But anyways, yeah, that's sointeresting.
So early on you started torebel against the standards.
Was your mom trying toimplement them when she got in
church?

Speaker 3 (23:24):
Not so much because my, my older sisters, they all
wore dresses, and I was the onethat didn't okay, yeah, so they
were already in church yeah,they were in church, and then,
um, at some point we all went tothe christian school and so
everybody wore skirts and so I,I had to wear skirts because of
the school, yeah and um.
So I went to christian schooland so everybody wore skirts and

(23:44):
so I, I had to wear skirtsbecause of the school, yeah and
um.
So I went to christian schooland so, you know, went through
that and then, um, I only wentmiddle school and then, um, and
then I went to high school andthen I just kind of struggled
again in high school because Iwasn't like in this bubble, you

(24:05):
know, and the bubble of fittinginto the church culture yeah,
and then I was like, okay, I'malready been wearing skirts for
two years and I didn't feel likethat was me.
I am.
I didn't want to adhere to that.
And I was still dealing withall that in my head.

(24:27):
Yeah, shame.
And that was at 14.
And so when I first attemptedto end my life, I was 16.
So I was in high school and Ifelt like the pressure of
wearing skirts and not wearingmakeup and not know, not cutting
my hair and all that.
I just it was too much for me.

(24:48):
It was too much, so I I beganto plan like, oh you know, when
I get older, I'm gonna join thearmy and I'm just gonna leave
yeah, I think it was shame wealready have so much
self-consciousness, we alreadyfeel so awful.

Speaker 2 (25:08):
I did that.
When we don't have an exteriorsense of what beauty looks like,
we feel even uglier.
I did.
I always felt like the uglyduckling I did.
And it was because you know, itwas because how I felt inside
and I felt like the outside justalways confirmed that.

(25:28):
So standards is always verydifficult you know, but there
was a lot of internal pain, likeyou, you know, with that.
So when you took all of thosepills, did you go to the
hospital?
I didn't.
Nobody knew, no one knew, noone knew.
So were you the hospital?

Speaker 3 (25:42):
I didn't, nobody knew .

Speaker 2 (25:44):
No one knew.

Speaker 3 (25:44):
No one knew.

Speaker 2 (25:46):
So were you surprised that your life didn't end.
What did you do after that?
I mean mentally in your mind,what were your thoughts when you
woke up and you were stillalive?

Speaker 3 (25:57):
I thought either I got to get my act together or
nothing's going to like nothingwas, everything was still the
same for me, but a part of mewas saying I need to like, stop
thinking like this.
Okay.

Speaker 2 (26:17):
Did you have any concept of hell at that time?

Speaker 3 (26:22):
I did, I did, but at that time I didn't, I didn't
care, I didn't care.
And I always, you know, mysisters were always saying oh,
you always said you didn't care,because I always just made it
in voice that I didn't care thatif you died, you didn't care if
you went to jail.
Yeah, I didn't say that if Idied I didn't care.
In general, I always said yeah,I didn't say that if I died I

(26:43):
didn't care.
In general, I always said ifsomething happened I don't care.
Like I had a no care attitude.
I didn't feel.
I felt like I didn't have anyfeelings, even though I was a
people pleaser.
I was a people pleaser forbecause I didn't have any
boundaries, but at the same timeI was just feeling so unloved

(27:08):
and I couldn't shake that partof feeling unloved.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:13):
That was more than anything.
Do you feel like your familytried to love you?
Do you feel like that wascoming from your home life and
the chaos before the family gotin church?
Or do you feel like when youlook back now?
Or do you feel like a lot wasrelated to the abuse, or both,

(27:38):
yeah, both, I think.

Speaker 3 (27:40):
me being the youngest daughter too, a lot was focused
more like on my sisters.
They were teenagers at thattime.

Speaker 2 (27:47):
They demanded more attention.

Speaker 3 (27:48):
Yeah, they demanded they were going to, you know
like functions and stuff likethat.
Okay.

Speaker 2 (27:55):
So yeah, so probably inadvertent neglect.
You just weren't getting theattention you needed right.
Yeah, okay, yeah.
So at 16, you decide okay, thisdidn't work, I better figure
something out.
And your idea was to go to themilitary.

Speaker 3 (28:13):
Mm-hmm, I remember one time running away and my
brother telling on me that sheran away and I don't know if it
was for attention, and I thinkwhat you're saying is you know
that's probably what they saidit was attention.
And I think what you're sayingis you know that's probably what
they said it was attention, butthey never knew what went on
with me.
Yeah.
So in my mind I was thinkingI'm just asking for attention,

(28:34):
but really I couldn't.
I never told them.

Speaker 2 (28:37):
Well, christine, you were asking for attention, yeah,
but not for any reasons.
You understood.
Yeah, but I think your psychewas trying to figure some things
out, and so I feel likebehavior should be an indicator
that there is an internalproblem.
We shouldn't get mad atbehavior.

(28:59):
We shouldn't ever say a kid isjust seeking attention.
They are probably seekingattention but because something
is very wrong inside.
Yeah, and, and clearly it waswith you, and I believe that is
with most kids.

Speaker 3 (29:15):
Yeah, it was.
It was during those times.
I just wanted to be away.
I didn't want to be part of um,I didn't want to be part of the
church.
I didn't want to be part of myfamily yeah.
I wanted to just go somewhereelse you know, I wanted to
escape um somewhere else in mymind.

(29:40):
Where did that lead you?
Um, well, I I struggled, evenin high school.
Um, I just always struggled umfeeling loved and just
self-worth, and um, at an earlyage, just like my mom, I got

(30:00):
married early and had mydaughter, and I was 19, same age
, and so for me, my daughter wasjust my joy.
And do you have just one?
No, I have a son too.
They're four years apart.
Okay.
And so I had Ashley, my daughter, and she just became my world

(30:21):
and at that point I wasn't inchurch, I had already, I had
already, you know, left thechurch and I was young, I was
only 19 when I had her and, um,I was married and um, I want to
say, like two years into ourmarriage, um, my husband, you
know we were young, and he, youknow, he, stepped out of the

(30:44):
marriage and stuff, and, um, I,I want to say that, you know,
you know it had to.
You know something in me, youknow, maybe, you know I didn't
allow, you know, for him to loveme or or whatever it was.
Right, right yeah.
So even in our marriage Istruggled with those things.
So even in our marriage Istruggled with those things.

(31:07):
And then I had my son, and so Ihad both of them.
And when I had them.
I wanted to go back to churchfor them and so I did that like
normal, like most people do.
They'll, you know, they'llleave, and it's not for them,
but hey, you know, it could befor my kids right and so I did
that and um they, we went tochurch and my, my kid's dad, he

(31:32):
was mormon, so he wasn't achristian, he was mormon.
And then he, um was hepracticing?
no, yeah, I wouldn't think so,but no, and so we had ups and
downs and he got into the churchbut he still stepped out of the

(31:52):
marriage and then it was like Ichecked out and then we were
divorced.
But then after all that andlife kind of, you know, just
went on.
You know I started to usealcohol just any time, you know,
first like socially, because atthat point I hadn't been like

(32:17):
exposed really to the world,always kind of been around the
church, you know like eventhough I wasn't in church, my
family was all in church and soanytime there was like you know
we come from a Christianbackground, you know like okay,
we're gonna do this and I havemy kids there and you know.
So you know I had never.

(32:38):
But after my divorce happenedand my kids grew up, happened
and my kids grew up, it was likeI didn't know where I was at
that point in my life.
So what age was that?
Would you say um my 40s?

Speaker 2 (32:54):
okay, my 40s do you feel like with your having your
kids?
Did that ground you for a while, or did you always still feel
alone in that emptiness?

Speaker 3 (33:06):
I mean they were like my joy and my peace, you know.
But I think I know when myhusband had stepped out of you
know, the marriage and had, youknow, just he had an affair.

Speaker 2 (33:20):
So then I felt that worthlessness again so um then I
felt that worthlessness again,and I actually had attempted a
second time.

Speaker 3 (33:33):
How did you try that time?
I had um told him that I wasgoing to do that and I had drove
um an hour and a half away.
I kind of never spoke aboutthis, um, and I had drove an
hour and a half away.
I kind of never spoke aboutthis and I had drove an hour and
a half away.
So it was very, you know, I was, I knew I was going to do it
Very meditated, yeah, and I hadrented a hotel room and I

(34:01):
decided well, you know, I wasgoing to do the same thing.
Yeah.
And my ex-husband had called mysister, my oldest sister, and
had told her, and I can't reallyremember other than that she
called me and I was an hour anda half away and she pled with me

(34:26):
and I came home.

Speaker 2 (34:33):
Yeah, yeah.
I think so many people get tothat place where they just don't
.
You know, in talking to people,I'll always ask the question
did you, you know, did youreally want to kill yourself?
And what most of them will saywill be I just didn't want to be

(34:55):
here anymore, right?
They don't necessarilyconceptualize it as killing
themselves or suicide.
They just think I'm tired.
I don't want to do this anymore.
I just want to take these pillsand not come back.

Speaker 3 (35:16):
Yeah, because prior to that I was sleeping a lot and
that's what I would do to easewhatever was going on in my head
was just to go to sleep and Iwould just sleep, and sleep, and
sleep and you know, it justkind of grew.

Speaker 2 (35:32):
Did you have to take pills to sleep that much, or did
the depression just allow youto sleep?

Speaker 3 (35:40):
Yeah, it allowed me to sleep, but I never.
After that day, when I did comehome, my sister was there at my
house and she hugged me and Iwas like a stone.
You know no feeling.
I was shamed, yeah, Shamed, andshe told me she loved me, and

(36:01):
then nobody spoke about it.

Speaker 2 (36:03):
Just on the way I got buried.

Speaker 3 (36:07):
So I've done during that.
So I never, like, went to acounselor for it.
I never took pills like to helpme with, you know, anxiety or
anything like that.
I just pretty much denied itand act like it didn't happen.
Yeah and so, um, that, um, thathappened and I was about I

(36:27):
think I was 25- wow I was 25, soyou know that kind of like from
16 to 25, I mean, all that wasstill happening yeah and then
after that it was kind of arelease for me, um, because
because at that point then Ithought somebody knew something.

(36:48):
Yeah.
And it became a release for meand then I felt like I'm good.
Yeah.
And, um, I continue to livelife, you know, and, but the
effects of everything, I thinkyou know.
But the effects of everything.
I think you know I was in badrelationships after that divorce

(37:09):
.
You know I picked the wrongperson, you know, like these bad
boys, and so I fell into, youknow, bad relationships.
But I can never really keep arelationship because I just felt
like they didn't really love meor I just didn't want to commit

(37:29):
.
Ever, I never wanted to committo anything.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
So you just were in and out of men.

Speaker 3 (37:40):
No, I remarried.
I remarried.
Yeah, I remarried, but ofcourse the guy was a bad boy and
I didn't know that he was drugaddicted.
And at that point, when I knewhe was drug addicted, when I
finally found out, like twoyears into the marriage, I was

(38:02):
the people pleaser and I was theone to make sure, like I'm not
drinking you know I have to, youknow I I was basically like a
doormat, yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:12):
Yeah, because I would think you're still fairly naive
, coming from church culture,growing up Like we don't have a
ton of exposure to addiction.

Speaker 3 (38:23):
Yeah, I didn't know anybody.
I thought people didn't havegood teeth were you know they
didn't have dental ton ofexposure to addiction.
Yeah, I didn't know anybody.
I thought people that didn'thave good teeth were you know
they didn't have dentalinsurance you?
know, so I had no idea aboutbeing addicted to those things
and so I always thought, like Ididn't want to be perceived,
like you know, like I was avictim or my second marriage.

(38:43):
I didn't want to be perceived,like you know, like I was a
victim or my second marriage.
I didn't want to be perceived,as you know maybe another failed
marriage and try to put up ayou know something that it
wasn't.
But that marriage was reallybad.
It was very abusive andphysically, physically abusive,

(39:04):
and I endured that for 10 years.
Yeah, why do you think youstayed?
I stayed.
I stayed because I thought youknow you're in church and you
needed to get married.
And I got married again.

Speaker 2 (39:19):
So you were going to church at that time.

Speaker 3 (39:21):
I ended up going to church and I thought well, you
know, I'm going to go back tochurch and Try and get it right.
Yeah, and I and I also feltthat my kids were still young
that and this is before I knewhe was addicted I felt like you
know they had, they needed afamily unit.

(39:44):
Yeah.
And I felt like I needed toprovide that.

Speaker 2 (39:47):
When you came back to church at that time, did you
feel like you were reallyconnected to the Lord?
Did you feel like you hadgotten the Holy Ghost?
Did you feel like you were onfire for God?
Did you feel like you wereliving it, or were you just kind

(40:09):
of attending and trying to dowhat you had been taught?

Speaker 3 (40:13):
Yeah, I was just attending, trying to do what I
was taught In my mind I stillfelt like I even felt that God
didn't love me.
I felt like church was for myolder sister and I was happy for
them to see the blessings andstuff like that.
But I didn't think I was doingit for whoever I was with or my

(40:38):
kids, Okay, Okay.

Speaker 2 (40:43):
In the domestic violence.
Did you ever what?
What did that look like?
Like?
Chaos, yeah, just chaos did youever feel like your life was in
danger?
Yeah, yeah, because there'slevels of dv, and so I would
just oh, it was a.

(41:03):
It was, it was really bad, wheremy nose got broken um yeah they
ever choke you yes, yeah, they,uh, they say, um that if, if a
man will choke a woman, he'llkill her.
So that's one of the that's oneof the flags we look for as

(41:24):
therapists.
You know, when someone isexperiencing domestic violence,
in terms of severity, chokingmost often is an indicator that
someone has capacity to murder.

Speaker 3 (41:37):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:38):
So yeah.

Speaker 3 (41:38):
To the point.
You know, there were severaltimes where he choked me to the
point where I thought I wasgoing to die.

Speaker 2 (41:47):
So and you just continued to stay.
Yeah, can you talk about why?
Do you know what you were goingthrough with that?

Speaker 3 (42:01):
I thought I could help him.
For some reason I thought Icould.
I didn't.
Some reason I thought I could.
I didn't know the extent ofwhat addiction really was and at
and at the same time, I washiding that the abuse from my
family, and you know, um, and mymom would say oh, you know,
just bring them to church, andyou know that's going to fix

(42:23):
everything.
You and so I stayed.

Speaker 2 (42:27):
I stayed for years did he ever go to church with?

Speaker 3 (42:29):
you, he did, he went to church, but you know, that
was only, like you know, maybeeight months, and then he would
fall off the boat and then hewas addicted to meth, and so
with that came a lot of chaosthat I was never exposed to and
and just the supernatural likedemons that I knew that was

(42:53):
there.
Yeah that was there.
So the turning point for me inthat marriage was I had gotten
really, really sick and I had asurgery and I was just deathly
sick.
I had lost so much weight and Iwas maybe down to maybe 80

(43:14):
pounds and during yeah, duringmy you know being sick, my
ex-husband you know he wasrunning wild you know, in his
addiction, and I just um prayedand I said God, you know, if, if
you can spare me to live, youknow, I'll, I'll, I'll, you know

(43:36):
, I'll divorce this man and um,and so that's what ended up
happening.
Yeah.
Um, because during the time Iwas sick, it sick, it was even.
It wasn't abusive during thattime other than, well, it was
because of the things that hedid, but it wasn't physical.

Speaker 2 (43:55):
Yeah, yeah, and I've counseled with a good many
Christians who are stuck inhorrible marriages, domestic
violence, addiction, alcoholism,perversion, just all kinds of

(44:17):
things, and the one commondenominator that makes them stay
is we think we can save them.
And I'm just going to tell youyou cannot save them.
Only God can save them.

Speaker 3 (44:31):
Right.

Speaker 2 (44:33):
And in the meantime, the enemy often uses them to
weaken you and to really try andattempt to destroy you.
Mm-hmm.
So I'm really glad you got outof that.

Speaker 3 (44:48):
And I think after that my self-esteem was just so
low at that point.

Speaker 2 (44:53):
Yeah and I suspect somewhere deep inside you
probably felt like you deservedthat, that that was all you were
capable of having.

Speaker 3 (45:09):
that was the only kind of love right and um, you
know, even after that, when Idid date, you know, I dated a
doctor and other people thatweren't, you know, addicted or
didn't have these problems, andI wouldn't um allow myself to be
committed.
I didn't feel like I was worthyor I was good enough, and I

(45:30):
just yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (45:34):
So then what?

Speaker 3 (45:36):
So then after that I decide, you know what I'm just
going to, you know, be there formy kids.
You know I stayed away fromchurch.
You know my life consisted of,you know, having a career.
I was a Medicare broker andjust, you know, just focused on

(45:58):
that.
But that, all that other stuff,people didn't really know
really what was going on or whatI had been through and I didn't
really want to tell peoplebecause I didn't want people to
feel sorry for me or or anythinglike that.

Speaker 2 (46:11):
um, did you?
Did you?
Were you struggling with God?
Were you angry with God?
Did you?
Did you expect God to dosomething that he didn't do?
Through all of that, did youever hold him?
Did you ever blame him?

Speaker 3 (46:26):
no, I didn't.
I never blamed god.
I was always thankful to godthat I didn't die from the
domestic violence, um, and frombeing sick I was.
I was very thankful for that and, um, there was a lot of times
that god would show up yeah umwith me being backslid yeah,

(46:46):
well, he never leaves us orforsakes us yeah, and I was
telling um one of my sisters andshe goes what I was telling her
that, um, you know, while I wasbackslid and the husband that I
married, that was addicted.
The first time that we wereintimate in the room I was

(47:10):
backslid.
Obviously I hadn't attendedchurch for about five years and
I remember waking up speaking intongues and it was like maybe a
supernatural thing thathappened because I had dream
that I or I don't know if Idream or seen or whatever but I

(47:31):
seen a demon just coming down myhallway and it was just times
where god just was Like thatshame was so much there that
like that door was closed.

(47:51):
Yeah.
And I don't know why it was Ihaven't figured out that why it
was closed, other than that Ihadn't told anybody.
Maybe I don't know, but youknow.
Through all that, eventually,as life went on, I started to

(48:11):
drink socially and it justbecame more and more and more
and more.

Speaker 2 (48:17):
And at this time you didn't drink because he had the
problem.

Speaker 3 (48:21):
Right, right.
So after I had divorced andeverything and you know, became
an insurance broker andeverything, and I thought, oh
well, you know, this is my timeto be social and you know, and
you know, just meet people andyou know business, more, career

(48:42):
minded things that was my goaland stuff and drink socially.
I began to drink socially and Ihad a couple of relationships,
but I knew that there was stillsomething going on because I had
, I had, I was in a relationshipand I started to drink so
heavily that he, you know, endup me that, um, when I would

(49:06):
drink that I would cry like alittle girl and it was, it was
still there did you drink?

Speaker 2 (49:14):
did you black out when you drank?
I mean, when he told you that,was that a surprise to you?
No, I knew that I was drinkingto check out no, but I mean, did
you know that you were cryinglike a little girl when he had
said that to you?
So you were blacked out andthat was happening.

Speaker 3 (49:32):
Yeah, and he specifically would say that I
would say that nobody loves me.

Speaker 2 (49:37):
Yeah, yeah, wow, so did he leave.

Speaker 3 (49:42):
No, I left, it was me all the time.
Yeah, so did he leave?
No, I left, it was me all thetime.
It was me all the time leavingthe relationship because I just
would leave and I wouldn't allowanybody to love me.
Because he did propose to meand I thought, why am I going to
do this again?
I've already been married twice, you know, and so, yeah, do you

(50:03):
know what intrusive thoughtsare?

Speaker 2 (50:05):
Have you ever been able to recognize them?

Speaker 3 (50:11):
Like you mean thoughts that are not normal
Right and that are really notour own Right.
I didn't.
I didn't at first, I didn'tuntil right before I came back
to God, back to church.

Speaker 2 (50:26):
Okay, yeah, okay.

Speaker 3 (50:27):
I learned to push those thoughts out and I knew
that that's not from God.

Speaker 2 (50:32):
Right, right, I was just going to ask you something.
I forgot what it was, but keepgoing, I'll come back to you.

Speaker 3 (50:40):
So you know, after all that, you know I, you know,
there I was working and makinggood money and everything to me
seems like it's OK.
But I knew that people wouldtell me we're too married, like
wait, how come that didn't workout?
And I just was like, oh, Idon't know.
But I began to just drink somuch more, to the point where

(51:06):
I'm drinking more than I'meating and it's like hard liquor
vodka with nothing, juststraight and I'm just checking
out.
And then at some point, insteadof going into the office and
getting dressed and going towork, I became a broker and

(51:29):
started to work remotely and Imoved about 30 minutes away from
my family and I know that's howthe enemy I know now, yes,
that's how the enemy comes.
Isolation, yeah, and he comes,and it was like a, it was like
an open door and, um, workingremotely, you know, I would, I

(51:51):
would order alcohol in and I wasdrinking, I was, I thought I
was a functioning alcoholic, butI wasn't and I, um, I, I just
began to become an alcoholic.

Speaker 2 (52:05):
And at this time were the thoughts of your childhood
and the marriages?
Were they on the back burner,or were they always sort of
prevalent in your life?
Because we can push them awayand pretend like it never
happened and not revisit it, butit's there working.

(52:27):
But then there's other thingsthat are always kind of there
and they never really leave yourthoughts.
I'm just curious.

Speaker 3 (52:34):
They would leave and they were on the back burner
because I would try and focus,like on my work and just trying
to make more money.

Speaker 2 (52:46):
Feeling like you were accomplishing something and
that was behind you.

Speaker 3 (52:50):
Right, and at that time, too, my daughter had
gotten married and she hadmarried a really nice guy and
she was okay with my grandkidsand he was a great dad to them.
And during prior to all this,when, when she didn't have him,

(53:11):
I was, I was always like tryingto help.
You know that that's where Ifelt like I belonged with the
grandkids and and then when shegot married, I it just shifted
for me, Like I felt, felt likewhat am I going to do now?

Speaker 2 (53:26):
and that's when a lot of the drinking happened so you
lost your purpose somewhat yeahyeah, okay, did you have had
throughout, you know, all thosedark days?

Speaker 3 (53:52):
yeah, I thought I would see things like shadows.
Um, I didn't really hearanything other than the thoughts
that were going in my headabout, like you know you're
alone, nobody, you know, nobodycares.
Um, if you were to die, nobody,you know, everybody's on with

(54:13):
their life, you wouldn't matter,right and um, but the only like
demonic uh thing that kind ofsticks out is a last
relationship.
Right before I was, I came tothe Lord.
I was in a relationship and Idecided and I was.
So I was so addicted to alcoholduring that relationship.

(54:36):
It was really, really bad, butit was so bad that I thought I
have to, I have to do something.
I never thought like I need to.
I tried to do like AA and Ididn't want to do that.
Um, I felt like why yeah,because I I went in and I heard
their stories and, um, you know,I was like what I've never done

(55:01):
.
That you know yeah and I was indenial, yeah, yeah.
And so I was like no, well,I'll figure this all out myself,
like that's.
I've never done that, you know.
Yeah, and I was in denial, yeah,yeah.
And so I was like, no, well,I'll figure this all out myself,
like that's what I had beendoing my whole life.
I'll figure this out and nobodyknows, and I can just act like
nothing has happened.
But it was like the chains ofhell had me with that alcohol

(55:24):
and I began to go to church andI was like I need to get free
from this.
Like I'm literally drinkingmore than I'm eating.
I didn't even want to eatanymore.
I was to the point where I hadpain on my side and I would
drink for the pain to go away.
That's the insanity.

Speaker 2 (55:40):
So you would have been waking up in the morning
drinking then you would havebeen very dependent on alcohol,
physically dependent on it.

Speaker 3 (55:48):
Yeah, I was in the middle of the night.
I had alcohol on my bedsideinstead of water.

Speaker 2 (55:54):
Just to keep yourself from going through a draw.

Speaker 3 (55:57):
No.

Speaker 2 (55:58):
Just to drink.

Speaker 3 (55:59):
Just to have that feeling of out of here, Okay, I
was just wanting to, I don'tknow, I wanted to check out,
yeah.
And so that's when it gotreally bad, and that's when I
decided I need to go to church,because I know I can't.
I could always like figurethings out, but not this time.

(56:21):
I couldn't figure it out and Icouldn't stop but not this time.

Speaker 2 (56:25):
I couldn't figure it out and I couldn't stop.

Speaker 3 (56:27):
And you, you at this point, didn't have a desire to
commit suicide.

Speaker 2 (56:32):
Um, I just had those thoughts Like if I wasn't here,
yeah, yeah, I had those thoughtsall the time but I mean cause I
would have thought you knowyou're starting now to think
about going back to churchinstead of thinking about
checking out again.

Speaker 3 (56:48):
Yeah, it was like I wanted to save myself, Like you
got to get over here becausethere's you can't do this.

Speaker 2 (56:55):
Well, that's good.
That had to be the Lord, right.

Speaker 3 (56:59):
Yeah, and so I started to go to church.
But here's what I think aboutpeople that are addicted,
because I remember going tochurch and this had never you
know, I had never went throughthis but I remember going to
church and it was so good and itwas like God was speaking to me

(57:19):
and I would go to the altar andI just so wanted to stay in his
presence.
But at the same time, I wasthinking, as soon as I get out
of here, I'm going to drinkvodka.
And it was like a strugglebetween my flesh and my wanting

(57:41):
the Lord, and I would cry at thealtar and think, knowing what I
was going to do.
And so now, when I go to church, when I see people and I can
see the desperation and thehopelessness, because I felt
hopeless, so hopeless, and Istarted to go to church and do

(58:06):
all that.
But at the same time, I was ina relationship with someone and
we were living together.
And then I decided I'm going tosleep in the other room, like I
really wanted to not drink, notdrink anymore.
I wanted to go to church.
I really was afraid of why Icouldn't stop drinking and it

(58:28):
scared me.
It scared me because I feltlike I had no control over it
and I thought, well, you know,in the past, brother Eli
Hernandez had spoke over me, andso I I decided, well, I'm going
to look him up on YouTube and Idecided to, um, listen to him

(58:50):
and I would cry and I would justlisten to, you know, his
preaching in and I would ask Godto heal my mind.
Um, because I did have thosethoughts, yeah, and I remember
one night crying out to god inthe room and my, my ex-boyfriend
, was like in another room and Iwas crying out to god and I

(59:11):
said, god, just please dosurgery on my mind, because I
just can't do this anymore.
And I had picked a video onyoutube and I was trying to look
for the longest one because Iwanted to fall asleep and I
wanted, I thought, maybe myconsciousness will pick up and
God will heal my mind.
And I seen a video and it wasseven hours long and I thought

(59:35):
I'm going to pick this one and Iput it on and I said that
prayer and I cried out to Godand I fell asleep.
Well, about two or three in themorning I woke up because I
heard brother Eli Hernandezpreaching and all he said was
right now.
I don't know who he was prayingfor, but he said right now,
god's going to do surgery on you, on your mind.

(59:56):
Wow, you're exactly right, yes.
And I woke up and I heard thatand I don't remember anything
else and I fell asleep.
Up and I heard that and I don'tremember anything else, and I
fell asleep and I know it wasGod.
It was just so real to me andit began, uh, little by little.
It was the word of God yeah itwas the word.
It wasn't me at church, it wasthe word of God.
It was there in just me and him.

(01:00:18):
It was the word of God.
And from there I began tolisten to Bonnie Marshall.
And I began to listen to BonnieMarshall and I began to listen
to all her podcasts about yourbrain and how you know there's
these pathways in your brain,and I began to relate it like
she does relate it to the Bible.
And you know, so man think isso he is right.

(01:00:41):
And, um, I began to notice thatgod began to heal me.

Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
Yeah, in my mind yeah , yeah, so were you at that
point did?
Had you stopped drinking, wereyou still struggling, but
drinking less?

Speaker 3 (01:01:00):
I had.
I had, I was still drinking.
I made, made a choice in mymind Today's the day and I just
did it like that and I thought,well, I'm just going to say
today's the day and I did, Istopped drinking and it was just

(01:01:22):
a miracle from God because Ididn't have withdrawals.

Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
Yeah, that is the Lord, because you should have.

Speaker 3 (01:01:31):
I should have, because I mean, when you're
drinking a bottle of vodka likenothing, and it was just every
day.
There wasn't a day that Iwasn't drinking and it was just
so much.
But when you were asking meabout the demonic, when I
decided to separate and say,okay, I'm going to go to church

(01:01:57):
and the relationship's going tostop, and all that I distinctly
remember because at night Iwould lock my door, my bedroom,
and he in my bedroom and he's inhis room, and he knew he
respected that and we were.
You know, I was going to churchand he had visited a couple of
times, but I had really made inmy mind that this is I need to
do this.
And he was kind of worried,wondering about is the

(01:02:21):
relationship going to still?
You know, we're still going togo to church and be a couple or
whatever, and I knew that, thateverything had to you know, yeah
, change.
And uh, that night I locked thedoor and I fell asleep.
And when I fell asleep Ithought, oh my goodness, he came
inside the room becausesomething was on me and

(01:02:48):
physically I could feel thedemonic pressing on me on my
back and I could feel even aman's anatomy, and it didn't
want to let go.
It didn't want to let go untilI began.
I couldn't even speak, Icouldn't move.
Yeah.

(01:03:08):
And I had to pray inside andcall on Jesus and the moment
that I did, it left.
Yeah.
And the door was still locked.

Speaker 2 (01:03:20):
Yeah yeah, those encounters are very, very real.
Um, they're very, very realpeople.
I won't get graphic, but yeah,very real.
And you said that happenedafter you decided you were gonna
quit and I voiced it out loud?

(01:03:41):
Were you voicing it to god?
Were you speaking it into theatmosphere?
Were you voicing it to theenemy?

Speaker 3 (01:03:49):
I was telling um my ex-boyfriend okay this is what's
going to happen.
I told god as well.
I prayed it out loud um yeahhow long ago was that christine?
Um, maybe a year and a half ago.

Speaker 2 (01:04:07):
And so from there, you just started going to church
.
I mean, you were going tochurch, but what began to evolve
from there.

Speaker 3 (01:04:18):
And also, too, I had talked to my brother and I had
went over to his house and thatnight prior to that happening,
the night before me and mybrother, he said, let's pray
about this, that this is goingto all end.
And we had said a prayer or two.
Oh, good.
So, um, and then the next, ohwell, yeah, the next day that

(01:04:39):
had happened.
But after that, um, you know,um, at that time it was brother
Phillips and um, you know, hehad said, he had told me don't
let your good be spoken evil of,you know, still continue to
live with someone, even thoughyou know you were, you were not,
you know, together, together,yeah, and from there I just, I

(01:05:06):
just know that God healed me, hehealed my mind.
I didn't have any withdrawals.
Wow.
Which was amazing because atthat point I did check into.
Well, they wanted me to.
They wanted me to do anin-house treatment Like a

(01:05:26):
residential yeah.
Who's?
They, kaiser, my Treatment Atyour residential yeah.
Who's they?
Uh, kaiser, my insurance, yeah.
So they had did an assessmenton things that affect your life
and they said you need to checkin.
And at that point I still saidno, I have a job, I don't want
to check in and I can do this.
And so I did an extensive umoutpatient out intensive um
outpatient, outpatient like aneight week um outpatient and did

(01:05:50):
that help.
Do you feel like, um, what didyou learn from the outpatient
treatment?
Um, I felt like they helped ina way, like just effects, like
they would have me take my shoesoff and get grounded and stuff
like that.
But it was nothing compared towhat god did, because god just,

(01:06:12):
I mean it just and I couldn'tstop drinking either, right?

Speaker 2 (01:06:16):
so yeah, good, um, I was gonna ask you something.
So many things in what you weresaying I wanted to ask
questions about.
So you broke up with the guy.
That probably sidelined him alittle bit, right, because

(01:06:37):
really it had nothing to do withhim.

Speaker 3 (01:06:39):
Well, during that relationship, he was another
person that was addicted, and soI was in another relationship.
I was just doing the same thingover and I was just like upset
with myself Not upset, but I wasjust defeated Like I was.

Speaker 2 (01:07:00):
Repeating patterns, yeah, yeah.
So, when God healed your mind,what have you noticed since?
What have you noticed from howyour thoughts worked to how they
are now?
What's changed for you?

Speaker 3 (01:07:17):
Well, one thing, and I talked to one of the sisters
at the church.
One thing was I literally seencolors, different.

Speaker 2 (01:07:28):
Oh, interesting, talk about that a little more.

Speaker 3 (01:07:38):
It just seemed more clearer, it seemed more vibrant.
The colors, wow.
And you noticed, yes, veryinteresting.
I noticed that and then, likethe enemy did try to come back
and say something.
You know those thoughts, but Iknew immediately that's not from
God.
I know exactly what that is.

Speaker 2 (01:07:55):
So you were able to discern that much quicker than
what you could have or didbefore.

Speaker 3 (01:08:01):
Yeah, and I also too.
I mean for work.
I always was confident I couldgo up in front of a crowd and do
that.
But really the core of mewasn't because of the
relationships that I was having,but through God I was able to

(01:08:25):
recognize what was going on.
All the time.

Speaker 2 (01:08:30):
Those thoughts, I knew they weren't from god yeah
and so at what point did youbegin to talk about the abuse?

Speaker 3 (01:08:42):
well, um, like I said , about seven years, you know I
had mentioned to my sister, youknow that he did this to us and
she said no, so I never reallydid talk about it.
I only just recently, this lastweek, talked to three of my
sisters and we talked about itand we all talked about it, and

(01:09:07):
we all talked about it and I'mgoing to say like within a week
it had.
I mean, I at first there wasjust no way I could talk about
it, so I I just didn't know howI was going to talk about it.

Speaker 2 (01:09:17):
But is he still alive ?
Is it a he?

Speaker 3 (01:09:20):
yeah, it's a he and he.

Speaker 2 (01:09:21):
He passed away okay yeah, he passed away is it
someone different than whoabused your brother?

Speaker 3 (01:09:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:09:29):
Someone different man .
It's so unfortunate.
And then you know, when youwere a kid and that happens at
such a young age you don't knowhow to differentiate your own
identity versus the one theenemy tries to give to you.
And so, as a kid, there is noway to fight back, there's no

(01:09:53):
resistance, there's nounderstanding, so we just absorb
whatever the enemy tries toplace on us, right, and we
believe that.
That's so true, yeah Well, soyou've been back for a year and
a half I've actually um beenback for about two, two and a
half years yeah two and a halfyears so so how do you feel like

(01:10:17):
?
I know that's such a simplistic, obvious question.
Oh, I feel great, but what doyou feel like god is doing in
you?
Where do you feel like god isleading you?
And what do you feel about yourfuture Like?
What are you looking towards?
At this stage of your life.

Speaker 3 (01:10:34):
Yeah, I feel like a calling for people that have
been addicted, that hopelessnessor have gone through trauma,
because the first year when Idid come to church, I would just
randomly call my sister and saythe devil's a liar.
And that was like my wholething for the first year because

(01:10:56):
in my mind whenever anythingcame I was like that's a lie,
you know, and so we would kindof joke and I would call her and
say the devil's a liar, and wewould do.
I did that for like a year, butthen I found myself visiting
homeless people or going outinto the streets and and
reaching out to people, younggirls and um.

(01:11:17):
Like I felt that was my callingand can I continue to feel that
way?
At our church we have um ladiesthat come from the shelter,
mothering Heights.
I can connect with them.

Speaker 2 (01:11:32):
Yeah, it's so needful because I think there is a
hunger for God, but people don'talways know how to bridge that
gap.
Or, okay, I go to church.
Now what I mean?
We recently had some new peoplecome in and you know like
they're just brand new, theydon't know anything and they

(01:11:56):
don't know what the bible isabout, how, and then they look
at you and they're like, oh not,you like you haven't been
through anything or whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:12:05):
And I was, yeah.
So I was just at a gas stationand I was on my way to church
and I was running late and Isaid, oh, I got to get, you know
, at least $10 and, you know, toget to church, to exit her.
And I was just in a rush and asI'm parking, there's another car
, you know, facing me and I canhear them say excuse me, excuse

(01:12:26):
me, and I'm like trying toignore them because I'm in a
rush and so I'm rushing and it'slike the Holy Ghost stopped me
as soon as I was passing and Isaid yes, and she said, you know
, she started to tell me thatyou know she was stuck there,
she didn't have any gas money,she had all the kids in the car

(01:12:50):
and you know I was.
I was telling her, okay, do youhave venmo?
And I was going to give her tendollars or something.
You know.
Just, you know, and um, thereason I'm saying this is
because you know I didn't sharewith you a part of the past of
prior to coming to church.
I had got in trouble and I hadan ankle bracelet and I had DUIs
and so I had got, you know,saved from a lot of stuff.

(01:13:15):
So when I seen this lady andshe was probably just looking at
me like I'm on my way to churchwith my hair done and my skirt
and all this, and while I'mtalking to her I have a
breathalyzer in my car oh and itgoes off and I go hold on a
second and I'm blowing in mybreathalyzer and she's looking

(01:13:38):
at me like what yeahand I told her, yeah, god
changed my life.
Wow, I said, and I was like Godchanged my life.
I know you're looking at melike I'm just and she just
started crying in her car.
Yeah, and we exchanged numbersand I text her and hopefully

(01:14:02):
she'll come to the Lord.
But it's just amazing that, youknow, some people think that
you haven't experienced.
I mean, the first year when Iwent to church I had an ankle
bracelet on my and.
But you know they don't realize.

Speaker 2 (01:14:17):
And we just see the outward appearance.

Speaker 3 (01:14:19):
Right, and we do need to talk about the goodness and
the miracles, the miracles ofwhat God does and his word, and
how it becomes alive and it justbecomes so alive and it's just
the word of God that really,really does it.

Speaker 2 (01:14:36):
It is.
I mean the Bible.
I think it's the best keptsecret.
There's so much treasure thereif we just will read it.

Speaker 3 (01:14:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:14:46):
How many DUIs did you have?

Speaker 3 (01:14:48):
Well, I had, it was in one year.
I got three in one year.

Speaker 2 (01:14:53):
In one year.

Speaker 3 (01:14:55):
So you were looking at some prison time yeah, had
never been in trouble with thelaw, um, never and boy.

Speaker 2 (01:15:02):
When they start, it just stacks up.
I had two, once when I was 18,the second one when I was 21.
And it took years to get out.
The laws were much differentback then than they are now.

Speaker 3 (01:15:15):
They're way worse now it all happened in one year.

Speaker 2 (01:15:19):
Yeah, yeah.
But I love what you saidbecause we don't know.
I mean, every story someoneshares, every story someone

(01:15:42):
shares.
I just think, man, we are soaccustomed to just looking on
the outside at people and neverreally knowing them, never
taking the time to talk or getto know them or know what God's
done in their life.
But I think being aliveChristine is a miracle.
I think being alive Christineis a miracle.
Like you know, the devil couldhave taken you out in any of
those times you know suicideattempts, domestic violence, dui
.
I mean the devil could havetaken you out and wanted to do

(01:16:03):
all of that and God, in hismercy, had his hand on you.
Yeah, and that's because he'sgot a plan for you.
I think he has a plan for allof us, you know.
So I think that's wonderful.
We do sort of have a passionfor the people that are where we

(01:16:25):
used to live right.
I heard someone say we used tolive right.
Or I heard someone say, um, Ithink a lot of pastors,
preachers say it that yourministry is going to be in the
place god delivered you from, sohe saves you from cancer.
Your ministry is going to be topeople with cancer right, it
saves you from homelessness.
Your ministry is going to be tothose people because you can

(01:16:47):
identify, you can relate and youcan testify that God's big
enough to take you out of that.

Speaker 3 (01:16:55):
And things don't surprise me too when they say
things I'm like, okay, right.

Speaker 2 (01:16:59):
Yeah, not faced.
So do you feel like this is thefirst time in your life that
it's really been real for you,or deep within you, or yeah,
okay, that braveness that I didwhen I was a little girl, I feel
that boldness now for Jesus.

Speaker 3 (01:17:17):
Yeah, yeah, that's where it's at.

Speaker 2 (01:17:19):
Yeah and yeah.
And your family, god's reallydoing a work in all of your
family.

Speaker 3 (01:17:25):
Yeah, yeah, he's doing a work in all of us, in
our whole family.
Yeah, yeah, he's doing a workin all of us, in our whole
family?

Speaker 2 (01:17:30):
Yeah Right, all of the siblings, kids, grandkids.
So what would you say?
I always end with this.
What would you say to thebackslider that's still out
there, that, you know, has pride, doesn't want to do all the
things, doesn't want to?

(01:17:52):
You know, don't think they mayneed church.
Or you know, I think there's acornucopia of reasons why people
don't want to come back tochurch I'm going to say church
because I think there's a lot ofpeople that love the lord.
They don't want to come tochurch.

Speaker 3 (01:18:12):
What would you say to those people?
I would say that the devil is aliar.
That's the number one thing Isay.

Speaker 2 (01:18:18):
Think that louder.

Speaker 3 (01:18:20):
The devil is a liar.

Speaker 2 (01:18:21):
Amen.

Speaker 3 (01:18:23):
That's the number one thing, and also, too, that God
didn't come to condemn.

Speaker 2 (01:18:29):
No, he didn't.

Speaker 3 (01:18:29):
He came to save.

Speaker 2 (01:18:31):
I love that.

Speaker 3 (01:18:32):
He came to save.

Speaker 2 (01:18:33):
I love that because that's what they feel, but that
is a lie from the enemy.

Speaker 3 (01:18:39):
And that was the lie that I believed, and I thought,
oh, I made a lot of wrongchoices.
I did that and then I felt sounworthy, but God never
condemned me, even though I had,you know, my thoughts or
whatever about the church.
God never condemned me.
And he saved me.

(01:19:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:19:02):
That's really good.
Yeah, he does love us in wayswe can't fathom.
Yeah, he does love us in wayswe can't fathom.
But if we can somehow start toquestion, what is it that I
really believe?
Where are these beliefs evencoming from?
Could God really be good likeeverybody says?

(01:19:24):
He is, like everybody singsabout?
Could God really be good?
Yeah, he is.
He is.
He's better, he is, he is.

Speaker 3 (01:19:35):
And now I see everything.
When I'm thinking, and I'mlooking and I'm hearing, I'm
like God's working over here.
And then he's working over here, right.
And he's putting everythingtogether and it's so exciting.
And when I meet people that arestruggling, I always tell them
God is calling you.
Yes, yes, Because you didn'trecognize it, but God is calling

(01:19:55):
you.

Speaker 2 (01:19:56):
And he was there with you through all of it, he was
there.
We just can't always see him.
But we look back and in my ownlife I'm thinking oh my word, I
could have died here.
I could have died here.
I could have died here.
You know, the Lord just haddivine protection.

Speaker 3 (01:20:12):
I know, I know and I, you know, I kind of like, oh,
should I say what's happening?
And there's a lot of thingsthat I missed out, and you know
that I didn't, but that wouldprobably be for you know,
somebody else or something.

Speaker 2 (01:20:26):
Oh, you can say it, yeah somebody else or something,
but oh, you can say it.
Yeah, I mean it.
Yeah, say it because it's hardto tell our life story in an
hour and a half.
Yeah, you know it, it's hardand, um, some of the people that
I've interviewed before they'relike I want to come back.

Speaker 3 (01:20:42):
There's so much I left out and you know, because
there is nerves, you do getnervous, but no, if there is
something um yeah, please say it, yeah only that, you know, even
at those times, because therewas a lot of times when I wanted
to do what I'm supposed to do,I mean for god, right for myself

(01:21:06):
and for my life, and every timeit seemed like I did, the enemy
came and stole it from me.
Right.
Because there was a time where Isaid, okay, well, this year I'm
not going to drink at all.
And I'm eight months sober andI'm just not drinking.
Right.
And during that time I had afriend reach out to me on New

(01:21:27):
Year's Eve and say, at the verylast minute, come, I'm by myself
, come, come, come and come overhere and let's, you know, bring
in the New Year's together.
And I said, well, I'm going tobe responsible, not going to
drink and drive.
I haven't drank in eight months,and OK, surely I can have one,

(01:21:48):
and I've you know I can do this,drink and drive.
I haven't drank in eight months.
And okay, surely I can have one, and I've I've you know I can
do this.
And and I took an uber and wentand um, and during that time um
was only there.
The new year was only like anhour and a half away, so it was
like I wasn't going to be therelong and um had a drink and,
sure enough, somebody drugged mydrink.

(01:22:10):
And then something happened,and during that situation, Did
you get?
raped, yeah, yeah.
And during that situation I hadended up calling my sister and
she came.
And I had ended up calling mysister and she came.
I didn't realize, I have likememories of things, but at the

(01:22:33):
time there was also anotherperson there that had passed
away from an overdose.
So I could have been yes, so atthe same time I could have died
.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:22:44):
At that time, and so there was so many times that the
Lord protected you, that Icould have died, yeah, wow, yeah
, there's.
There's a lot to unpack.

Speaker 3 (01:22:59):
I mean alcohol, um, I think, especially for
backsliders is just you justfall so far off of the deep end,
yeah, and I think with alcoholyou think, oh, that's not that
bad because you know that's notlike drugs, it's legal right.

Speaker 2 (01:23:16):
So somehow there's this faulty sense that it's not
as bad as drugs.
But yeah, that makes it bad,because we give ourself
permission, because it's notillegal.

Speaker 3 (01:23:28):
Yeah, but God was always there and now I'm.
You know I I do want toadvocate for, like people that
have been through trauma, andaddiction and and and face those
struggles.
And when those ladies come intothe church, like my heart just

(01:23:48):
goes out to them because I cansee, like their hopelessness,
that they're trying to find outand I know that it's, you know,
a lot of it.
Sure, maybe they fell intoaddiction, but you know those
are effects of something else.

Speaker 2 (01:24:02):
Yeah, I, you know, addiction is only a byproduct.
No, addiction is only abyproduct, Like the scripture
that you said in Proverbs as aman thinketh in his heart, so is
he.
That's sort of the foundationof cognitive behavioral therapy
for me.
That's what I use in combiningthe Bible with that modality.

(01:24:22):
And it's true becauseeverything originates in our
mind.
It's true because everythingoriginates in our mind and our
mind.
What we think is coming fromthe wounds of our heart, our
soul, you know whatever thosewounds are.

(01:24:42):
So when people come into church,like you did and like I did
many times over the years, Iloved God, I wanted, I wanted
nothing more than to beeverything God wanted me to be.
I wanted, I wanted to be thegirl that could wear the dresses
and be in ministry and do allthe things and just live in the

(01:25:07):
purity, Because I just alwayssaw it as purity.
I never saw it as ministry orthe dresses.
I just saw what it representedand to me it represented the
constant presence of the Lord.
But I think that church cultureand preachers, when they haven't

(01:25:32):
experienced a lot of what lifelooks like on the other side the
darkness, yeah, when they justgrow up in church and never,
ever really stray.
It looks like we are justchoosing the world.
Oh, I'm not going to stay orI'm not going to conform because
I want to just go, blah, blah,blah.

(01:25:53):
But really that isn't what it'sabout at all.
It's like you said most oftenit's deep shame.
I could never take the mask offbecause I felt too exposed.
Because I felt too exposed, Icould never not seek out
attention from men because I wasso alone.
And you know that constant needfor validation and you know

(01:26:21):
it's just.
Ultimately we're afraid thatwhat we believe is true, and if
it's true, then I am less thannothing and that is a hopeless
little hole that you've beendown.
I've been down.

Speaker 3 (01:26:37):
Exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:26:39):
So it's not ever really about the fact that we
don't want to conform, that wedon't want to be obedient.
I think the brokenness is justso scary.

Speaker 3 (01:26:55):
Yeah, because I just didn't ever talk about it, even
until this last week.

Speaker 2 (01:27:00):
Yeah, yeah, and God's going to just do so much more
with that to release it and toprobably give you a lot more
understanding and clarity, justin the things you haven't yet
addressed, because it's still sobecause I had been asking the
lord what's the connection, youknow.

Speaker 3 (01:27:21):
But really the connection is when the physical
of being, you know, touched tothe mental and then to like the
spirit.

Speaker 2 (01:27:31):
There's a connection oh, there's a huge, huge
connection and there's alsotransference and and you have to
think about how innocent youwere at three years old and four
years old, you're completelyinnocent.
You're the most purest thingyeah nothing is written on your
life yet.
It's just purity.

(01:27:51):
That's why the devil tries tocorrupt that as soon as he can,
and so anyone that comes at kidslike that.
It's perversion, but it's somuch more than that.
I've seen situations where Imean, I personally believe that
that's where homosexualitybegins and where, uh, sexual

(01:28:14):
confusion you know, originatesfrom and and in the spirit realm
we become one.
When there is any kind of sexualintercourse, even if it's rape,
if it's sexual abuse, if it'sfornication, willingly
consensual sex, or if it'sadultery, in the spirit realm we

(01:28:38):
become one, and so spiritstransfer.
You're joining together withoutyour consent, without your
permission, and so you'rebringing that in, and the devil
knows that.
And so there is a lot thathappens when children are abused
.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:28:58):
And I think I've heard that before that whether
of course you didn't invite it,but whether it happened to you
or you, you know, were youngerand you decided to have sex out
of marriage.
But when it happens to you, youknow you're abused, but that
door becomes open, right forperversion or for those other.

Speaker 2 (01:29:21):
And when you're young like you were.
You know um, you don't have anysort of conceptual
understanding of what'shappening, and so you can't
fight it, you can't resist it,you don't know how to battle any
of that.
Just shut out my mind rightthere's, there's no way to

(01:29:41):
understand it, and so you, youjust believe it.
You know, I've had littlefive-year-old kiddos tell me all
kinds of stuff that they justbelieve it belongs to them
because their brain is tellingthem and so, because my brain is
inside of my head, it must beme like because so many people

(01:30:06):
don't understand what'shappening in the spirit realm.
the devil is always speaking andthe Lord is always speaking,
but when there is shame and wefeel like something is wrong
with us, we begin to believeeverything that the enemy says.
And so he's always talking.
And so little kiddos.

Speaker 3 (01:30:27):
They think it's you, they believe it's you, they
believe in them.
Yeah so.

Speaker 2 (01:30:31):
So I've had them say and do all kinds of things.
And so then they, if they havea bad thought, if they have
thoughts of violence or thoughtsof all kinds of things that
little kids go through, theyfurther believe something's
wrong with them.
Because why do they think this?
Why why are they having thisthought?

(01:30:52):
Why is that image going throughmy head?
They don't have any kind ofunderstanding that that's not
them, that's what the?
enemy is trying to place on them, so it becomes their identity,
like exactly because shame isabout identity and.
And so, yeah, and so, parents,if you got littles around and

(01:31:14):
they're acting out and cryingand behaving poorly, please seek
help for them, because there'sa lot more going on.
It's not just bad behavior,it's not just attention seeking.
There's a reason.
There's a reason and we have toget to the bottom of the reason
.
If kids are manipulative at sixyears old and seven years old,

(01:31:36):
there is a reason.
Kids are not born to bemanipulative.
Kids are not born to be sexual.
Kids are sexual at five and sixyears old's happened yes
because god didn't create that.
So I get really passionate aboutthat because it happens so so
much yeah it's the enemies.

(01:31:57):
I feel like childhood abuse,whether it's neglect, whether
it's physical, sexual or, um,mental.
It is the devil's weapon tocompletely derail a life forever
.
His goal is to derail thatpurpose forever, and if we don't

(01:32:17):
start getting curious aboutwhere we've been and where we
came from, we won't be able torecognize his attack on our mind
.
So what would you say to theparent who has a kiddo out there
, hasn't returned to the Lord,or a spouse or a family member

(01:32:37):
who has a prodigal out there, abackslider?
What would you say to them?

Speaker 3 (01:32:44):
I would say to give them grace, because I never even
gave myself grace.
And if you're not givingyourself grace, if somebody
gives you grace, it's basicallywanting or telling them that you
care and that you want to knowwhat is really going on.
Yeah.
You know, and talk Jesus to them, because I it was.

(01:33:09):
I I just didn't believe, I Ijust believed everything that
the enemy was telling me.
I believe that's what myidentity was.
But I would tell um the parentsto really, really focus on why
kids are doing what they'redoing.

(01:33:29):
Yeah.
And not to just punish them.

Speaker 4 (01:33:33):
Yeah, you know, or ignore them or ignore them or
dismiss them and say you betterbehave.

Speaker 3 (01:33:38):
And because they don't work.

Speaker 2 (01:33:42):
No, they'll just do it more, and you know talking
Jesus to them in the wrong waydoesn't work either, Because
when we use Jesus as a form ofpunishment to kids, they're
going to think that Jesus is aslave master.
So you know what I'm saying.

(01:34:04):
I'm not correcting you, becauseI think what you were saying is
let them know that Jesus lovesthem.
Right, right.
And absolutely, because nomatter how far we've gone.
But, you know Christian culturesometimes just beats people up.
Well, you know that that's sin.
You know that God wouldn't behappy.

(01:34:25):
Well, yeah, they know.
They don't need to tell, theyneed to hear Most of the time.
You know that God wouldn't behappy.
Well, yeah, they know.
They don't need to tell, theyneed to hear Right.

Speaker 3 (01:34:30):
Most of the time they know the Lord will forgive you.

Speaker 2 (01:34:32):
He loves you.
Just talk to Him, right?
Well, thank you for sharingyour story, and I'm excited
about what God is doing in yourlife, doing in your life and,

(01:34:53):
man, I'm just excited andthankful that you made it back.
There are people that haven'tmade it back and are not here
with us anymore, you know, soI'm really grateful that you're
here.

Speaker 3 (01:35:03):
Thank you for having me.

Speaker 2 (01:35:04):
Yeah well, thank you for being willing and, again,
for those of you who arelistening, thank you for tuning
in.
I know a lot of you may notknow some of the guests, but I
hope that as they share theirstory, something in there
resonates with you.
We're all human, sharing ahuman experience and a journey

(01:35:30):
to know the Lord, so if you havea testimony or you want to
reach out or you have questions,please email us.
We just launched our website,so redeembacksliderorg, so you
can email us from there, textwhatever, so we look forward to

(01:35:50):
hearing you.
Thank you, have a good day.

Speaker 1 (01:35:55):
We are so glad you joined us.
If you have a story ofredemption or have worn the
label of a backslider, we wouldlove to hear from you.
If you'd like to support ourministry, your donation will be
tax deductible.
Visit our website atkathychastaincom.
We hope you will tune in forour next episode.