The Hardship of Grief TRB #27 Keri Rodriguez

Send us a text

September 1st was National Childhood Cancer Awareness Day. As such, we dedicate the episode to the thousands of children around the world who have suffered and died of childhood cancer.

Grief has a way of reshaping our lives in ways we never imagined. For Keri Rodriguez, the unthinkable happened when her granddaughter Everly was diagnosed with neuroblastoma cancer at just 16 months old. What followed was a harrowing journey through hospital stays, treatments, moments of hope, and ultimately heartbreak when Everly passed away before her third birthday.

This raw conversation explores the intersection of profound loss and spiritual faith. Keri candidly shares how she proclaimed to everyone – even skeptical medical staff – that God would heal her granddaughter. When healing didn't come in the expected form, she faced the question that haunts many believers: Why didn't God heal Everly when we know He could have?

Listen to hear the entire conversation.

Support the show

Partner with us : https://www.theredeemedbackslider.org

Follow us on Insta & Facebook: The Redeemed Backslider

Kathy has two books out and they can be found on Amazon or Barnes & Noble online:

Redeem California, With God it IS Possible:

God of the Impossible: 30-Prayers for the Redemption and Restoration of California

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Redeemed Backslider with your
host, kathy Chastain.
Christian-based psychotherapistand Redeemed Backslider.
This podcast is dedicated tothose who have wandered but are
ready to return to thelife-changing power of grace and
the freedom found in Jesus.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Hi, welcome to the Redeemed Backslider.
I'm your host, kathy Chastain.
I'm a Christian-basedpsychotherapist and I'm also a
Redeemed Backslider.
With me in the studio today ismy friend, keri Rodriguez.
Some of you who have beenfollowing our podcast for a
while may have seen her earlyepisode I think she was episode

(00:44):
three or four when we firstbegan and she told her story of
coming back to the Lord afterover 20 years of being away from
God, and her father is ourbishop and so she was raised in
church and so, um, you know, godhas really done an amazing work

(01:05):
in her life and, um, I broughther back today because I wanted
to talk about a subject that Ithink um is very important and I
think it's where a lot ofpeople live, and that subject is
grief.
Um, and without telling all ofher story, I'm going to let her
do that.
She lost her grandbaby when hergrandbaby was not even three

(01:35):
years old, and so, as abackslider, coming back to
church and navigating theprocess of grief and all the
things that go along with itnavigating the process of grief
and all the things that go alongwith it I wanted everyone out
there to hear some of theprocess, because we all suffer
grief in different ways, and Ithink it's very easy for us to

(01:57):
just, you know, slap a scriptureon the back of pain.
And you know, I just did theepisode on spiritual bypass and
just bypass the process of griefwithout allowing it to do the
work in us and allowing God toreally heal, and you know.
So I'm glad you were able tocome back and I know you're

(02:19):
going to need these tissue.

Speaker 3 (02:21):
This one's going to be rough.

Speaker 2 (02:22):
Because it's still very, very fresh.
So Everly was yourgranddaughter, and she was
diagnosed with cancer at 18months, so a year and a half
years old.
So why don't you tell us aboutwhat happened, how you guys
began to notice that she wassick or that something was wrong

(02:46):
, and maybe just walk us throughthe details of that process?

Speaker 3 (02:51):
She was actually about 16 months old, not that
that matters, but she reallydidn't have, we didn't notice
anything abnormal.
She was acting fine for her agewhen my daughter actually she
started getting like black underher eyes.
Well, actually they weren'tblack, they looked.

(03:12):
They call them raccoon eyesbecause it's neuroblastoma
cancer and if you look upneuroblastoma, that's one of the
first signs.
They get what's called raccooneyes.
It just looks like bruising andat first we, you know, we were
kind of just brushing it off.
You know, well, she's growing,maybe she fell.
I mean, we don't know, you know, you never, ever, ever are

(03:32):
thinking it's cancer, right Atthat age.
At that age I mean that justnever crossed our mind, and so
my daughter was able to get herinto her doctor pretty quickly I
want to say it was like a dayor so from first noticing, and
when she got her into thepediatrician it was interesting

(03:54):
because the pediatrician hadjust seen another little boy and
diagnosed him with the samecancer about six months prior to
Everly same pediatrician office, so she already knew what it
was.
When my daughter brought her inum, she didn't tell her though,
she told her just to take herto valley children's to get labs
that day.
So she made her, she, she toldher basically to leave from the

(04:16):
office and go straight to valleychildren's, so that had to have
already sent off red flags forkayla, but we still weren't
thinking cancer I.
I mean we were just like, okay,well, you know something's wrong
, but we don't know what.
So Kayla called me because Iwas at work, asked me to go with
her.
I mean we again, we didn'tthink it was going to be a big
deal.
We're like, okay, we'll go upfor labs, we'll come back,
whatever.
So I leave work, I go home, Ipick her up and we go to Valley

(04:41):
Children's.
And we get to Valley Children'sand they, they knew.
So they, the first thing Ithink one of the first things
they did in the ER was do anultrasound and found the tumor
in her abdomen.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
So right, then I mean that that will within within.

Speaker 3 (05:01):
I don't even remember if they drew labs.
To be honest, they it wasbasically an ultrasound the labs
Within.
I don't even remember if theydrew labs.
To be honest, it was basicallyan ultrasound.
So, within us.
I want to say I don't rememberexactly, but I want to say
within like six hours, we had adiagnosis.

Speaker 2 (05:12):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 3 (05:13):
Yeah, and it was I mean traumatizing.
Yeah.
Watching my first.
We're all blindsided by it.
Watching my daughter just breakdown in the ER.
And I mean it's just, I'llnever forget that day.
Yeah, traumatizing, yeah, andthere's nothing I can do?

Speaker 2 (05:33):
no, there's nothing, complete helplessness, yeah
there's no.

Speaker 3 (05:36):
I mean I'm just reeling from the diagnosis and I
can't help my daughter or mygrandbaby, it's like whatbaby.
You feel so helpless.
So helpless.
So that was the beginning ofour journey.

Speaker 2 (05:50):
And so did they keep Everly that day.

Speaker 3 (05:53):
Oh, yes, okay, and this all happened.
It was December 23rd two daysbefore Christmas and so they end
up admitting her.
So we're in the hospital, valleyChildren's Um, they it was.
It was kind of I don't want togo into too much detail cause
it's kind of like and the waythat they did it wasn't wasn't

(06:17):
great because they they knew shehad cancer, but because it was
holiday season they were lowstaff so they didn't get her
started on chemo right away andjust a lot of things were not
falling into.
They were low staff so theydidn't get her started on chemo
right away and just a lot ofthings were not falling into
place as they should have.
So we ended up being there alot longer than we should have
been and it was after New Year'sby the time she got released to
come home like, had her firsttreatment and then came home,

(06:38):
and it was a long couple ofweeks but yeah, she just kept
getting sicker and sicker andsicker and sicker and then they
finally just had to rush and dochemo.
Whether they were low staff ornot, it didn't matter.
But, yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:53):
So what did that look like for you guys that day?
Did you immediately call yourdad, immediately call the church
?
Well, because it was just meand Kayla there with the baby.

Speaker 3 (07:02):
Yeah.
So she called Kenneth, which isEverly's dad, I called Manuel,
which is my husband.
I called my parents andeverybody came and we were just.
It was just.
Life stops.
Yeah, I mean you literallythat's.
I mean, you can't even think.
It's literally just like astandstill in your life and I

(07:27):
mean there's no I I've.
I've never felt that way beforein my life.

Speaker 2 (07:31):
Yeah, never, yeah, so yeah, I I can't have one
experience of watching my son gothrough something where I felt
complete helpless and I cannotimagine.
You know it's heartbreaking tohear them scream and to hear

(07:55):
them you know.
In his case he thought his wifewas dying and you don't know.
But that threat is so surrealand I cannot imagine your
position.
I know I asked you that in atext.
How on earth did you survive?

(08:16):
Because you just can't imagine.

Speaker 3 (08:22):
No, I mean, and honestly, once she started
treatment it was kind of just awhirlwind of we didn't think
about it anymore.
It was just she had to have ityeah it's constant back and
forth Valley Children's to homeValley.
Luckily it wasn't that far, butthen as things progressed,
valley Children's basically waslike there's nothing more we can
do.
Um.
So my daughter reached out toucsf.

(08:45):
They took her on as a patientand actually I mean looking back
, ucsf gave us another year withher.
They were able to continuedoing treatment, trying you know
some different things, and they, they bought us a year we got.
we got another year with her, um, but that was a little even
harder because you know nowwe're traveling back and forth
from San Francisco home and butI don't care.

(09:07):
I would do it again in aheartbeat Right.
I would do it for the rest ofmy life, right, right, if I
could.
But, yeah, our life basically.
From that point forward, it wasjust a whirlwind, yeah, like we
didn't have time to stop andthink about it.
It was just, we just did it.

Speaker 2 (09:21):
So carrie, tell us a little bit about that particular
cancer, because I think it'svery I don't.
I don't.
You know, I'm somewhat of aconspiracy theorist because we
are seeing so much morechildhood cancer and I had a
friend, um, whose daughter wasdiagnosed at an early age.

(09:42):
I don't know what type she had.
Faith is now in junior highschool so she survived, but we
watched her life go throughcancer and thinking that she's
better, but I feel like therehas been an onslaught of more
and more childhood cancer andfor your pediatrician to see a

(10:02):
kiddo six months before.
I just don't think that that'sprobably not as common in years
gone by.

Speaker 3 (10:10):
Well, and the thing is I mean nowadays, childhood
cancer is not rare.
Cancer in itself is not rare.
In fact, september 1st is thebeginning of Childhood Cancer
Awareness Month, so that'sanother reason I kind of wanted
to do this today, because a lotof people don't even know that,
and bringing awareness tosomething that is supposedly
rare and does not get that muchfunding for research is not fair

(10:34):
.
It's not right.
These kids get 4% funding.
Yeah, that's not much I meanthey're children, they're
getting adult chemo treatmentsright, right that are wrecking
their bodies yeah and it'scausing because, being in, you
know, in the cancer world, mydaughter has become friends with
a lot of um other families yeahunfortunately I mean, I mean

(10:56):
I'm it's, it's horrible, but butthat's your community, but it's
true because it's so muchsorrow.
Yeah, and some.
You know some of the the, someof the kids have passed as well,
but some of them are still here, but they're struggling.
They can't hear anymore,sometimes they lose vision,
sometimes their bodies, theirorgans don't work.
There's so many effects, lateterm to getting these chemo

(11:22):
treatments, and it's just notright.
I mean something needs tochange for these kids because
it's not fair to them.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
So with that particular cancer, do you know
what the survival rate is at afast?
I feel like with Everly it wasvery fast acting.

Speaker 3 (11:37):
Well, normally.
I mean, there's some kids withneuroblastoma that do live
longer, but they're constantlyfighting.
It's a very aggressive cancer.
I honestly I'll be honest withyou I didn't do a lot of
research about it, just becauseI didn't want to know.
Yeah.
I still haven't really.
My daughter could probably giveyou lots of facts about it, but
I personally just didn't do myresearch.

(11:58):
I didn't do research because Ididn't want to know but I do
know that it's very aggressiveand the problem with
neuroblastoma is it's very smartcancer and it adapts to the
chemo.

Speaker 2 (12:14):
So they're getting this chemo and their their body,
the cancer is like oh so it'llfind a way around it, yeah, so
I'm going to stay off that topicbecause I have theories about
that.

Speaker 3 (12:20):
But well, I probably would agree with you on most of
them, so yeah, I um, yeah,anyways, so through the process.

Speaker 2 (12:30):
So, um, kayla, um and everly's dad, they lived with
you, so you had you and yourhusband had them home with you,
so you guys were right therewith him through everything up
close and personal, and so thechurch began praying.
I was there for all of that andthere were moments of hope.

(12:55):
Was there a time in the processthat you guys felt like God was
going to heal her, or that,like, can you kind of walk us
through what all of that lookedlike?
I mean honestly, I toldeverybody that God was going to
heal her or that like.
Can you kind of walk us throughwhat all of that looks like?

Speaker 3 (13:06):
I mean honestly.
I told everybody that God wasgoing to heal her.
Yeah.
I told nurses at UCSF God wasgoing to heal her.
They all looked at me like Iwas crazy.
Um, I told everybody I really,really, really felt like she was
going to be healed.
Yeah.
I did and I I can't answer thequestion as to why God didn't
heal her.
I don't know.

(13:27):
Right.
Only he knows.
Um, one of the one of theproblems, like my husband
brought up a point, was uh, soGod just picks and chooses who
he heals and who he doesn't?
I don't have an answer for that.
Yeah, Um, but I choose to keepmy faith because I don't like to

(13:47):
think about where I would bewithout it.

Speaker 2 (13:49):
Right, right, and I'll definitely come back to
that because I think I've spenta lot of time thinking about
that question as it relates todeath overall for kiddos and
stuff death overall for kiddosand stuff, but through the

(14:10):
process, because I can rememberyour dad telling us the
testimonies that God hadintervened and that God had done
some miracles in the process,through the time and I do feel
like he did, I do feel like Goddid, because there was many
times, several, several times wealmost lost her.
Well, I remember one inparticular, that the whole
family went up to San Francisco.

(14:31):
You guys thought that that wasit.

Speaker 3 (14:34):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (14:34):
But she rebounded.
So what happened in that?

Speaker 3 (14:38):
She was actually in ICU at that time, and that was
several months before her actualpassing it was, yeah, and
actually I had my.
My brother flew my dad upbecause the doctors basically
told us she probably, probablywouldn't make it through the
night.
So my brother flew my dad tosan francisco, um, because my

(15:00):
kayla wanted my dad to come prayand um, so, like, like I said,
I mean you know we all werehopeful and believing.
I mean it's really all you have, I guess, when you're desperate
, right?
So you know that time was veryscary.
I don't know if I blocked out alot of it, but I don't remember

(15:23):
exact details.
But she was very sick and Idon't remember if it was her
liver or something, but therewas something in her body that
wasn't working and it was bad.

Speaker 2 (15:34):
I think her body started to shut down.
It was really bad.
And so, after God intervened ina situation like that, when you
were expecting to lose- her andyou were probably starting the
grieving process of losing her.
I mean, I'm sure that began themoment you got diagnosed, but
but at that point and then goddoes intervene there's so much

(15:57):
reason to believe he's going tofinish the complete healing
right.
Yeah, and then I remember so shepulls out of that.
And then I remember twoseparate instances with her
ocular stuff and I don't knowthe details of that.
Do you remember that Godactually healed that as well?

Speaker 3 (16:21):
She had from the beginning.
She had a tumor behind her eye.
I think it was her left eye.
That was one of her tumors.
So she had a tumor behind herleft eye and I believe the
situation you're talking aboutwas when she went in for her
scans and the doctors had toldmy daughter and Kenneth that the

(16:45):
tumor was all necrotic.
So basically it was dead, ithad died off with the chemo and
that was.
We were very, we were likethat's amazing, you know
necrotic is that had been prayedfor.

Speaker 2 (16:58):
Yeah, right, that would.
Yes, that she wouldn't lose hereye, and, yes, the whole church
and because she was so littlewe didn't know if she could even
see out of that eye anymore.

Speaker 3 (17:07):
I mean, we didn't care, We'll take that.
I mean even if she had to gothe rest of her life with no
vision in the eye, who cares?
But that was one of the thingswe had prayed for, because it
was behind her eye.
I mean I can't imagine howpainful that is for her.
But yeah, so that was that.

Speaker 2 (17:31):
I think that was a situation that you're talking
about, where you know it did youknow?
That was another time where wefeel like God did really come
through for us, yeah, yeah.
And so I think you know, justfrom one of the people on the
other side of the fence.
You know, going through theprayers and seeing the updates
and, um, you know all of thechanges that was going on
throughout Um and then hereventual passing it.

(17:55):
It was a little bit shocking.
Maybe not shocking I don't wantto use that word but to you
guys, I imagine it wascompletely shocking.
Um, but it was surprising.
Because I imagine it wascompletely shocking, but it was
surprising because we did seeGod come through multiple times
in answering the prayers and Ithink everybody in the church

(18:16):
was so invested in her recoveryand God just doing a miracle,
because we in our church hadlost several members, several
female members, to breast cancerand so, as Christians, we're
all looking for the miracle.
We believe God will do miracles, we believe God will heal the

(18:38):
sick, we believe God will rebukecancer out of bodies and we
believe all of that.

Speaker 3 (18:44):
I think the thing that's hard to come to terms
with is we know he can Rightright will rebuke cancer out of
bodies and we believe all ofthat.
I think the thing that's hardto come to terms with is we know
he can Right, right, but whydoesn't he?
And I think that that's alwaysa question that, even in my
faith, I ask a lot.
Yeah, I do.

Speaker 4 (18:59):
You should, because I don't know why I don't know why
and only he does.

Speaker 2 (19:04):
Yeah, you know, I don't know why, I don't know why
, and only he does.
Yeah, you know, right.
Well, I, yeah, you know we canspeculate, but what I think
about and what I thought aboutwith Everly is I feel like God
definitely gave time.

Speaker 3 (19:21):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (19:24):
For everybody gave time.
Yes, um for everybody and alsoum.
I mean I also think a child intheir innocence is going to
heaven absolutely there is noquestion, we know where she is
about that and you know thecrazier this world gets like.
Like I have a grandbaby and Itry not to think about the

(19:48):
future because I think aboutwhere this world is going, what
I know prophecy says all thosethings and so I think sometimes
things like this that God wouldtake them to be in heaven with
him is his goodness, and wedon't know the future, only he

(20:10):
does.
He knows the end from thebeginning and I find comfort in
knowing that.
I may not understand and ithurts like crazy on this earth,
but I would die today and go toheaven if.
I could you know, because that'swhere we all want to be.
Don't get me wrong there's alot I still want to do in this

(20:33):
life to reach others for Jesus,but that's the end goal.

Speaker 3 (20:38):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (20:39):
And I know that the wise we don't know.
But if we fundamentally believeGod is good and I think that's
the wrestle is do we reallytrust and believe that God is
good and in his goodness hecould have taken her to spare

(21:04):
whatever this world has, youknow, and or further suffering?

Speaker 3 (21:10):
You know, we don't, we don't know, and that's,
that's the reality of it.
We don't know.

Speaker 2 (21:15):
We'll never know.

Speaker 3 (21:16):
Yeah, we will never know, and I personally just have
to come with terms to that,terms of it is what it is.
Yeah.
I mean, there's nothing I couldbeat myself up about it.
I could.
I could do a lot of things, butI choose to believe what you
just said is I know where she is, I know I will see her again.

(21:37):
It's going to be differentbecause it's not going to be
like here, but it's going to bebetter, right, and we'll know
each other, and I can't wait.
Right.
Yeah, I mean, that's the realityof it, cause that is the end
goal.
Yeah, right.

Speaker 2 (21:49):
Right, and and it was also the catalyst that caused
you to decide to live for God.
Do you want to talk about that?

Speaker 3 (21:58):
I know we talked about a little on the podcast
but, not from this complete yeahWell it was, um one of the
times that we almost lost her.
I don't recall which oneexactly, but, um, I had called
my dad desperate and I, you know, and that's another thing I
always knew who to call yeah,call my dad yeah uh, who else am
I gonna call?

(22:19):
call my dad, um, because when Iwant someone to pray I call my
dad and and so I called him um.
I was in San Francisco and Icalled him and I asked him.
I said hey, it's not lookinggood.
I need the church to pray and Ineed them to pray Like they,
like I don't want to say they'venever prayed before, but I need

(22:39):
them to pray Like I don't wantsome like rinky dink little
prayer.
I want them to pray and that's,that was probably my exact words
to my dad, and he said, okay,and so I think that was a
Saturday.
And then, sunday, I decided towatch the service on YouTube,

(22:59):
you know, because Everly was inthe hospital, I was staying at
family house with manual and Iwas like I'm just going to tune
into this service.
I mean, it was just you know,see, I want to watch them pray
for Everly.
And it was a life-changingexperience for me.
I had not logged on to aservice first of all, or been to
a service in a hot minute, andso I logged on to the YouTube

(23:24):
service.
I watched, ended up watchingthe entire service in tears in
the kitchen at Family House, andthat was the day that my life
changed and I said, no matterwhat happens, here come the
tears, no matter what happens'mgonna go to church and I'm gonna

(23:46):
live for God what was it aboutthe service that changed your
life?
you know, I I don't even know ifI could pinpoint it I hadn't
felt that in so long because weprayed we definitely prayed.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
I remember that service yeah, it was.

Speaker 3 (24:08):
It was awesome and I think just um.
I know that you guys touchedheaven that day and I, you know,
I don't know what like.
I said even then, I didn't knowwhat God's plan was.
I I don't know what.
Like I said even then, I didn'tknow what God's plan was.
I don't know what his plan wasfor Everly at that point, but I
knew that I needed to change.

(24:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:32):
Yeah, so what happened after that?

Speaker 3 (24:40):
Well.
So after that, I remember thatday I went and told Manuel too
about the service.
I made him watch it and he wasin tears too.
I mean it was verylife-changing for both of us.
Again, I'm full of hope becauseI'm like, oh, god's definitely
going to heal her.
So as time goes on, she doesget a little bit.

(25:06):
It's kind of like back andforth, back and forth, and which
I'm thankful for every moment Igot with her, like even in the
hospital, at home, like I'mthankful for all the moments.
But you know, eventually it was, you know, they basically
discharged her home on hospiceand that was, I think, may, the

(25:28):
end of May.
So they discharged her home onhospice and she comes home on
hospice and she's just so happyto be home.
And we got to make a few morememories.
I mean, she was bed-bound, shecouldn't walk but she, um, she
was just so weak and she'd beenlaying in bed for you know month

(25:48):
.
I want to say it had beenprobably like two months at that
point.
But, um, you know, she was insuch good spirits cause she was
home.
And I remember Kayla tellingher no more hospitals, you never
have to go back to the hospitaland you know, young age of two,
like she was, she's so smartand she knew, and she was like,

(26:09):
yay, you know no more hospitals.
And I mean we just, and wesoaked it up and then, you know,
when we finally lost her, itwas heart-wrenching, yeah, um
yeah how did you guys do throughthat?
Not great.

Speaker 2 (26:28):
I mean, I know I don't mean to state the obvious,
but number one it's yourgrandbaby, yeah, and then it's
also your daughter, yeah.
Like, do you remember?
Do you remember thinking anythoughts?
Do you remember thinking anythoughts, Do you remember?
Or were you just totally in themoment going through the

(26:49):
motions?

Speaker 3 (26:49):
whatever the moment when the like the night that we
lost her, I was veryself-absorbed, for sure, wrapped
up in myself.
But then, you know, I I wastrying to comfort Caleb.
It's like what do you do?
Like how am I going to come?
I can't come.
Like was trying to comfortCaleb.
It's like what do you do?
Like how am I going to come?
I can't come.
Like all I can do is hold her.
But what am I?
I can't take this pain awayfrom her.
Yeah, I have my own pain, but Imean that's her baby.

(27:11):
Yeah, yeah, that's her baby.
And as a mom watching yourchild, I don't know, go through
something like that.
Like I, I mean I don't evenhave words.
I can't even describe it.
I have no words, yeah, no words, just better helplessness.
Yeah, I mean I don't even knowhow I would describe it.

Speaker 2 (27:35):
Yeah, how long has it been now since she's been?

Speaker 3 (27:39):
We just well.
This past June was a year.

Speaker 2 (27:42):
Not very long ago.
So talk to me about grief Keri.

Speaker 3 (27:52):
What are you learning in the process of all of this?
You know, losing a child ishard.
I'm losing my grandbaby andthen my mom.
We lost six months after that,so it's kind of a double whammy
for all of us.
Like you know, we're stillreeling from losing Everly,
which is a huge thing, right andthen to lose my mom, and we

(28:15):
lost my mom pretty suddenly.
I mean, I know she was sick,but she always bounced back, so
we really didn't expect to loseher.
Yeah, so that was just likeanother knife in the heart.
Um, but grief is I, I.
It's a funny thing.
I mean, you, you do havemoments where you're like, okay,

(28:37):
I think I, I think I can dothis, you know I can get through
this, and then no, no, I can't.
I can't get through this.
Um, for me, the, the only thinggetting me through it is god.
I know that for sure.
I don't know how other peopleget through it, but, um, you
know he, he is close to thebrokenhearted.
Yeah, but the thing is is youhave to allow him to be.

(29:00):
Yeah, he's not just close toyou, like you, you have to allow
him to be close to you you haveto allow him to heal your heart
.
And, um, I am doing that becauseI, I can't do this.
Yeah, I don't want to do this.
Yeah, if I'm being honest, Idon't want to, I don't want to
to do this life like, like this,full of grief, yeah, um, yeah,

(29:22):
because a lot of people lose thedesire to live after they lose
a love which I completelyunderstand.
Yeah, I do, I completelyunderstand that and it's very, I
would, very, it would be veryeasy to go down that road yeah I
mean honestly it would be, um,you know, losing everly was.

(29:43):
She was literally the center ofour world, yeah, and you know.
And then you know, now she'snot here to experience her mom
having another baby, um, herlittle brother, and um, my mom's
not here to experience that.
And it's just, life is just ishard.

(30:03):
Yeah, it's so hard goingthrough life without your two
favorite people.

Speaker 2 (30:09):
Yeah, yeah, I know, I think grief is something that
has to be endured.
Yeah.
And you know, when I have theseclients land in my office after
losing their spouse or afterlosing their child, as a
therapist I just have to tellthem I have no words because you

(30:33):
can't really comfort grief.

Speaker 1 (30:34):
And.

Speaker 2 (30:35):
I don't want to which .
I feel like I've made so manymistakes, you know, with clients
, but I don't want to alwaysjust try to give them jesus as a
way to have something to sayand also as a way to make it
better, even though I knowthat's exactly what's going to
make it better.
Everybody wants to hear thatright and yeah, and, and we just

(30:58):
have to hold space for thetears and and space for the
inbetween moments when you'rereally white, knuckling it to
just survive your day.
And I totally mean that becauseI've seen people that just want
to go to bed and not wake upand stop showering and stop

(31:19):
getting dressed and all thethings, because it feels so
impossible to survive a losslike that.

Speaker 3 (31:31):
It's just, it's grief is like when you lose someone,
you think about them constantly.
Yeah, I don't care how longit's been.
I mean, for us it's been a yearsince we lost Everly.
It doesn't feel like a yearRight, like at all, like I think
about her all the time.
Yeah, constantly, yeah.
And my mom.

(31:52):
Right.
You know it's not.
I'm sure as time goes on, maybeyou think about them less and
less.
I don't feel like that's thecase for me.
I still think about them bothas much as I used to when we
first lost them.
Like it does not get easier,life does not get easier.
Um, you know, and when peopletell you, you know that you're

(32:15):
so strong, and although it'snice, no, we're not.

Speaker 2 (32:19):
Nobody wants to be strong right in these situations
.
We're not, we don't have achoice.

Speaker 3 (32:25):
It's just one of those things where something
happens to you and I guess youdo have a choice you can quit.
Yeah, it's either that or yougo on, and it's not like you
have any other choice.
So you either go on or youdon't.
I mean that's our choice.
So we're not strong because wewant to be.

Speaker 2 (32:44):
Right.
Yeah, I mean, that's our choice, so we're not strong because we
want to be Right.
Yeah, I think you just have toget up and take each day as it
comes and get through it.
Sometimes it's seconds at atime, sometimes it's minutes at
a time.

Speaker 3 (33:04):
Because you know for everybody that loses someone,
your entire life changes.
Yeah, um, whoever it is thatyou've lost, like, um, you know,
typically if it's someoneyou're really close to, you have
spent most of your day withthem.
It's like, you know, my dadwith my mom, like my dad took
care of my mom, yeah, so for him, now he has nothing to do
because he was a caregiver.

(33:24):
Same thing with Kayla, withEverly she took care of Everly.
It's just what do you do now?
How do you find?

Speaker 2 (33:35):
what do you do?
And Brene Brown, which Ithought was so good, she talked
about there is obviously thefive stages of grief and now
they've added a sixth stage.
But Brene Brown talks aboutthree components of grief and
she said that first it's theloss.
You know the absence, the lossof whatever it is.

(33:57):
And then, once you adjust tothat loss, and sometimes at the
same time all of this occurstogether then it's longing, like
you long for them.
You.
The grief is that it's theirabsence and it's the longing.
And then the.
The third part is, um, uh,feeling lost.

(34:20):
Like I, I feel lost withoutthem.
Like you said, your dad's.
That was so much.
Part of your dad's role wasbeing the caregiver.
Now, who is he now?
Right, he's still going to bethe bishop, but that's going to
be on Sundays and Wednesdays,and you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (34:39):
There's still a large portion of his life, you know,
built, and him and my mom, youknow, built a life together.
They were together a long, longtime and they went through.
You know, they had childrentogether, grandkids and
great-grandkids.
It's just, we all lost Everlytogether.
My mom and dad went throughthat with us and now my mom and
Everly are together.

(34:59):
But now we're all just here,like what do we do?
Like I mean it's hard.
Yeah, it's so hard.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
Yeah, yeah, so do you have good days.

Speaker 3 (35:19):
I mean Do you cry every day?
No, not as much.

Speaker 2 (35:28):
No, not every single day anymore.

Speaker 3 (35:29):
But that that matters , it doesn't watching.
But but yeah, I mean because inthe beginning you do you, you
cry all the time.
I mean, um, but I still cryoften yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:40):
I think it's so good for the soul, but it also keeps
you in that place of surrenderwith the Lord too.

Speaker 3 (35:47):
Well, and for us, for our family, we talk about them
all the time.
That's very healing.
You need to talk about them.
Don't not talk about them,because you're just hurting
yourself Talking about them,talking about memories, talking
about what they would do if theywere here.
We do that.
We talk about them, talkingabout memories, talking about
what they would do if they werehere, like we do that.
We talk about them all the time.

(36:08):
So I think that's very important, yeah, that you talk about them
yeah, and I know, like somepeople, you know they don't know
how to approach it.
Um, I I've had people say youknow, I'm sorry, I didn't say
anything, I didn't.
I don't know what to say to youand I, i's fine, you know too.

Speaker 1 (36:24):
But you can talk about them.

Speaker 3 (36:27):
We're okay with that.
Yes, we're probably going to besad and we're probably going to
, but we want you to talk aboutthem.
Yeah, you know it's hardbecause people don't want to see
you cry, they don't want tomake you sad, but we want to
talk.
And they don't know if it'sokay.

Speaker 2 (36:46):
But um, most of the time in my experience is we, you
know, we do want to talk aboutthem, yeah, yeah, okay, that's
super helpful, I think, becauseit is the difficult thing what
do you say to someone, what doyou do?
Because?
You know we, we see you, guys.
I we obviously see your postson facebook and so every time I
see it, I'm like like, oh, Ithink about the fact that you

(37:07):
know it's, it's so fresh, it'sstill so very close For us,
especially like.

Speaker 3 (37:13):
Like I said, I can only speak for for me really,
but um is we?
I think we're more worriedabout people forgetting about
them.
Yeah.
So talking about them ishealthy for us.

Speaker 2 (37:29):
And I think that's such an important point because
I know that when other peoplethat lose their loved ones, they
are afraid that they're goingto forget, and so you know, in
counseling I can reassure them.
Oh, you're never going toforget, you know, but you don't
really know that to be trueuntil you've lived a few years.

(37:51):
You know, without them, and thenyou realize that they're just
as close as they were, you know,when you first lost them.
The memories don't don't goaway, so I think that's really
helpful to know that you don'tforget.
It's still all very fresh yeah,definitely.
So I know that, with yourhusband, he doesn't understand

(38:18):
in his mind why God chose not toheal her Because, as you said,
we know that God can.
We don't always understand whyhe doesn't.
How did um, how did yourdaughter and and Everly's dad um
?
What is their position?
What do they think?
Is that a conversation that youguys have together as a family?

Speaker 3 (38:39):
Not really Okay.
Um, not really.
I.
They all know where I stand onit, obviously because I'm not
quiet about it, but you knowthey're not in church.
I pray for them all the time,but you know.
So we don't really talk aboutthat.
Yeah, we don't.
Yeah.

(39:00):
I mean, kayla used to come tochurch when she was little, like
her, and my son used to comewith my parents, so she knows.
But it is a hard topic.
I'm not going to lie.
I have a hard time with it whenministers come through and talk
about healings happening.

Speaker 2 (39:20):
And they say God's going to heal cancer.
They do.

Speaker 3 (39:23):
I can't sit here and tell you that that does not
bother me.
It 100% bothers me.
Yeah.
But I know that he can.
Right.
So it's a hard topic because Idon't know why he didn't heal
Everly.
I don't.
I don't even want to say I wishI knew.
I just don't know, I don't have.

(39:43):
I don't even want to say I wishI knew.
I just I don't know.
I don't have an answer for that.
But I know that the only way tosee her again is to keep going
on the path I'm going.

Speaker 2 (39:52):
Right.
I don't know if the stories I'mabout to tell you will help or
if they just don't matter,because I think sometimes, with
grief, we don't really careabout other people's stories.
We just care about ours.
But there is a minister onYouTube that I've watched for a
long time and when I was notcoming back to our church

(40:17):
regularly, I was still servingthe Lord, but I wasn't ready to
come back and I would watch himand he ministered to me a lot.
And I remember New Year'sservices.
I'd always watch church on NewYear's and I always spent New
Year's with the Lord.
It was very important to me andI didn't even know who this guy
was, but on New Year's, I justhappened to turn on everything

(40:40):
that he said.
Man, it just hit me and Iliterally cried and prayed in my
front room.
This was 2018.
Fast forward, I finally figuredout who that guy was on that new
year's service and, long storyshort, he had a son who had been
in the LGBTQ lifestyle foryears, and this this guy's a

(41:01):
minister in Tennessee.
He is a prophetic guy andthat's what was happening on New
Year's that day, and he prayedand prayed for his son.
Anyways, God delivered his sonout of that lifestyle and had a
miraculous deliverance.
Son's grown man gets married,has a couple children, part in

(41:22):
ministry in the church and, outof the clear blue, got sick.
And this is a pastor whobelieves in the miraculous, who
believes God for miracles, whocalled those out and believed
all that.
His son gets sick, he's in thehospital and he was at church

(41:43):
one day while his son was in thehospital and he said God's
going to raise him up.
God you know, like you guys,just so committed to believing
that.
and his son died.
And I was thinking to myselfhow will he reconcile that?
Because it's so hard and I was,you know.

(42:05):
I watched for those things andI thought how is he going to
reconcile this?
And I watched the funeral ofhis son because I cared and I've
seen his ministry and I waswondering all that.
And so at the funeral he getsup and says you know, when God

(42:26):
took my son home, I didn'tunderstand and I was mad and he
wasn't going to lose his faith.
But he had a lot of questions,as you guys do.
And he said a day before thefuneral he got a call from a
pastor that he didn't know verywell and he said I just want to

(42:47):
tell you the word of the Lordthat he gave to me.
And this pastor proceeded totell him that when his son was
in the hospital, that God wentto him and said you know, you
don't have to come home now ifyou don't want, you can.
You can finish out your lifeand you're going to be saved and

(43:10):
you know I'll heal you all thethings, um, or you can come home
with me.
And and this guy literally hada vision of a son saying I want
to go with you.
And it immediately broughtpeace and it allowed this pastor
to live with the reason Goddidn't heal him and we don't

(43:35):
know what happened with Everly.
But I think there is so muchwhat.
What I think about a lot when Ihave questions for god is you
know if I can look up into thestars and the heavens and not
know the names of those starsand not even know the other
solar systems?
I can't presume to know whathappens in the invisible realm.

(43:59):
that we can't see, but what I doknow is that somewhere along
our life's journey God gives usthe answers to the questions
that we have and whatever reasonhe's not answering Manuel's
question right now, yourquestion right now, I have to

(44:23):
trust that that's part of theprocess.
But I believe that one day Godwill give you guys an answer.
But I thought that that I'veheld on to his story for such a
long time because to encourageothers, because God does know
how to speak to us.
God does know how to tell usour reasons, his reasons rather.

(44:48):
And then Brother Mahaney when Ihad him on the podcast, his son
died of an overdose and BrotherMahaney was a backslider and God
miraculously delivered him andhe prayed and his son's child
also died, a childhood death,and so his son was grieving the

(45:08):
loss of his I can't remember, Ithink it was his daughter.
So his son was grieving theloss of his daughter that died
at such an early age and he fellinto drugs and Brother
Mahaney's son overdosed and diedand Brother Mahaney, as a

(45:29):
backslider and preaching, thegospel said that the Lord
visited him and told him you'regoing to have to just leave them
in my hands.
And that gave him peace,because I think the Lord said
I'd have to watch the podcastagain, but something along the
lines of I'm a gracious father,you know, and so I feel like our

(45:58):
hearts have to line up yeah andGod, god knows, god knows the
answers Manuel needs and Godknows the answers Kayla and her
fiancé needs and God knows theanswers that you need and I
believe those answers will comein time.
I've gotten answers, I toldPastor, you know, in the last

(46:21):
two years I've gotten answersfrom 30 years ago, yeah, that
everything has come full circleand God has given me answers to
questions that I had when I was15, that I had when I was 28.
And everything has come fullcircle and I believe that.
But Brother Pierce said to meone day you have to serve God

(46:45):
with all your heart and he doesnot bargain.
But when you will serve himwith all your heart, then he
will blah, blah, blah, blah,blah.
And I think that that is thewrestle that we all must walk
through is, we've got to findGod for ourselves, yeah, and we

(47:07):
have to find a way to say, okay,god, I'm hurt, I'm angry, I
don't understand, but there isno other hope but him.

Speaker 3 (47:22):
There's not, and there really isn't, yeah, so.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
And he him there's not, and there really isn't.
Yeah, so, and he is, he's good.
And I just say that, carrie,because it doesn't change
anything for you guys, but I doknow that if God does it for one
, he'll do it for another, andsomewhere, hopefully, that
brings hope to know what reallyhappened yeah that day and what

(47:50):
god might have really beenthinking, and you know, and you
know the pain that she's nolonger in yeah no, nobody, we'd
always rather have them yes,well, and even for my mom that's
that's how I feel too.

Speaker 3 (48:04):
It's like my mom was so ready to be done.
You know her, her earthly bodywas tired and worn down and she,
you know, you know it's just,it's a different thing with my
mom and then with everly, but um, you know they're both in a
better.
Well, people don't like it whenyou say they're in a better
place, but truly they are yeahbecause they're in heaven, which

(48:28):
is where we want to be, right?
so I I mean being in a betterplace.
You know, it's just, it's justa phrase, but obviously we would
rather than be here, right withus, right, but, um you, we have
eternal hope, knowing thatthey're.
They're in heaven waiting forus and there's peace in that

(48:49):
they're absolutely for me, yes,yes, I can't speak for my family
, but for me there is peace, andthat's where I get, that's how
I get through the days.
Yeah, to be honest, yeah, yeah,you know.

Speaker 2 (49:01):
Well, you know, god knows your husband.
He made him.
He knows every thought, heknows every desire, he knows
every ounce of pain and Ibelieve God tailors our return

(49:24):
perfectly for who we are, all ofour anger, all of our need for
justice, all our need foranswers.
When I look back at my life andI imagine yours too I can see
the hand of God giving me thethings that I needed that would
allow my heart to open just everso slightly, to be willing to

(49:46):
pray or to be willing to be open.
And you know, god knows him andGod loves him, and I think
God's going to give him all thethings he needs, you know, for
reconciliation, whatever that'sgoing to look like.
You know he may not like that'sgoing to look like, you know he

(50:11):
may not like that or agree withthat right now, but you know um
we have.
We just have to believe in allof that, you know, and your
family's very supportive of youreturning to church.

Speaker 3 (50:19):
Oh, yeah, you know, yeah, they're you know, it's not
, it's not even an issue.
Um, you know, and we're allissue and we're all grieving
differently, we're all kind oftrying to just live, get through
the days.
But for me, this is how I'mgetting through the days.

Speaker 2 (50:39):
Well, and I think another remarkable thing about
your family is that it seemsthat you and your husband have
had a loving relationship andyou guys have had a bond.
Being in the world is not aneasy thing.
Lots of people don't make itapart from God and you guys

(51:01):
definitely have, it would seem,a strong relationship to endure
both the life and the world.
Yeah, You're coming back tochurch.
The loss of Everly, the loss ofyour mom there's something there
that you guys have as a familyand in a marriage that you know

(51:23):
that's not by accident.
Yeah, yeah, I agree.
Yeah, what do you think isimportant for people in going
through grief Like and comingback to the like?
What are the questions you'vehad?
What are some of the thingsthat you have gone through in

(51:45):
both?
Coming back again after all theyears you were gone?

Speaker 3 (51:50):
um, in the midst of all of this, yeah, well, and
cause I came back in the middleof all of it, literally.
So, um, I think it it's.
It was a different experiencefor me because I was, I think I
was, I think I was ready.
First of all, um, I wish ithadn't happened like that, I

(52:12):
wish I could have just come back, but, um, so there's a lot of,
a lot of emotions, um, buthaving having my faith behind me
, um, I mean, I honestly don'teven know how I would be where I
am right now if it wasn't forthat, because when I'm having a
rough day, I pray and it doestend to pull me out of it.

(52:38):
Yeah, I mean, really, god hasbeen my strength.
Yeah, he has.
I mean when, when, literallywhen I'm having rough days, I
just pray, I start praying andit it helps.
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 (52:59):
What, um, what do you think?
What would you want to say topeople out there going through
grief and the questions that youhave about God and the
questions your husband has aboutGod and God?

Speaker 3 (53:18):
I mean, I don't know, because everybody is
everybody's so different andgrieving is different.
Grieving looks different foreverybody.
But trust me, I have lots ofquestions and I've.
You know, I I personally, Iguess just came to realize that
I may never have answers to them.
But I choose to keep my faithbecause it's where I get my

(53:41):
strength.
But I don't have answers.
I don't even know what to tellpeople, because I'm struggling.
You're still in the middle ofit pretty much.
And even in a year from now, Iprobably won't be able to help
someone else that's grievingbecause you have to go through
it.
I mean, my life is never, ever,ever, ever going to be the same

(54:03):
, ever, right, never.
So I, I and I don't I don'tknow how many, I don't even know
how I'm going to get throughanother year like this.
I don't want to, yeah, but, um,we do, right.
We get up in the morning, we gothrough our throughout the day,
we go to bed at night.
I mean, it's just, it's anendless cycle of this yeah, and

(54:27):
losing two at the same time.

Speaker 2 (54:29):
I mean on the one hand.
You know, it's probably hard tofocus on both of them at the
same time and and then, on theother hand, at least it's not
like five years apart to whereyou have to go through it all
over again you know.
So I want to read really quickthe stages of grief, denial,

(54:53):
anger, bargaining, depression,acceptance.
And they have since added asixth which is making meaning of
loss after acceptance.
Do you feel like you have gonecircularly through those stages,
or you go through all of thestages together at the same time

(55:14):
, or do you have you found any?

Speaker 3 (55:18):
The stages go very quickly um, the stages go very
quickly and sometimes I, I thinkthat they, um, it's like you
feel one, one way and then youknow, two minutes later you feel
another way and then twominutes later you feel like it's
back and forth.
Yeah, yeah there's never like afull day where I'm like, okay,
I'm fine ever yeah, never andthen there's never like a full

(55:41):
day where I'm like horriblydepressed.
It's constant changing ofemotions, yeah, throughout the
day.

Speaker 2 (55:50):
It's exhausting, yes, throughout the day.
Yeah, and then you guys justhad a new grandbaby, yeah, so
you want to talk about Rowan?

Speaker 3 (55:59):
Yeah, he's amazing.
Um, he looks just like hissister, um, but again, like
having.
When people would ask me if Iwas excited, I, I was excited,
but it's bittersweet, right,because having Rowan does not
replace not having Everly, right, and she's not here to be able

(56:20):
to enjoy having a little brother, and then my mom's not here to
meet Rowan and and I'm nottrying to be negative, but
that's truly how I think that Ican speak for my whole family
Say like it's, it's constantlyin our minds, like, well, I wish
they were here, I wish Everlywas here.
She would love this.
You know and you know, and, butit's amazing Again, it's.

Speaker 2 (56:41):
It's like it is bittersweet, it's a good word,
absolutely.

Speaker 3 (56:44):
And there's no other word I can figure out to use
that that makes sense other thanbittersweet, because it's
amazing and we're so happy.
But then you, when, when you'regrieving, you're happy, you can
be happy and sad all at oncetoo, like it's just, you know,
but when I'm holding rowan I'mconstantly thinking about everly
.

Speaker 2 (57:04):
Yeah, you know what are you thinking when you're
thinking about her?

Speaker 3 (57:07):
well, I used to hold her when she, you know, when she
was little, and how, like, ifshe was here she'd probably want
to sit right next to me, andyou know, I mean it.
It's just what, if I guess howwould she be if she was here,
and you know, would she be soexcited and what would she call
him and what you know, I don'tjust everything, all the
thoughts, and it's sad becauseshe, she wasn't, she's not here.

(57:31):
She doesn't get to experiencethat with us.

Speaker 2 (57:33):
Yeah, so how is Kayla and her fiance Is it Steve?
They're married, actually,they're married.
Yeah, what?
And her fiance is it Steve?

Speaker 3 (57:40):
They're married.
Actually, they're married, yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:42):
What is his name again?
Kenneth, kenneth?
I keep wanting to say Steven,and I know that that's not right
.

Speaker 3 (57:47):
I mean, they're getting by, you know.

Speaker 2 (57:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (57:50):
Yeah, and it's a lot of work taking care of a baby,
so I think that does help intheir healing process.
Because Kayla is very busy,she's exhausted.
Yeah.
So having the baby does help,yeah, but you know it makes her
miss Everly, yeah, just as muchyeah for sure and for anybody

(58:11):
watching.

Speaker 2 (58:11):
I mean, some of you guys might be cringing at the
questions I'm asking or thinkthat some of it is insensitive.
I'm definitely not trying to dothat.
Carrie and I talked before thisand she definitely is open to
questions and being able to talkabout this, so she is of the

(58:35):
perspective if your pain canhelp someone else, you're
willing to do that and sodefinitely not wanting at all to
be insensitive, but it's justso.
I think grief is one of thoseemotions that there really are
no answers to.

(58:55):
There is nothing that's goingto make it better.
No new car, no new house, nonew baby.

Speaker 3 (59:02):
Nothing is going to fix it and nothing anyone says
to me is going to help it better.
No new car, no new house, nonew baby.
Nothing is going to fix it andnothing anyone says to me is
going to help me.
I mean, intentions are good andI appreciate people saying
they're praying.
That's one of the things I liketo hear the most, because I
need prayers constantly.
So does my family, whether theyrealize it or not, but there's
nothing anyone can say to methat's going to even help my

(59:23):
grief.

Speaker 2 (59:24):
So right, you know, it's something you just have to
endure, and it runs a courseuntil I die.
Yeah, like truthfully, I mean, Iwill never not be grieving,
yeah I know, I think we learn tocarry it differently um in time
and we learn to hold itdifferent, and I think that

(59:45):
there can be fondness in thememory and sadness at the same
time.
But I think bittersweetdescribes it so well because,
you know, for people that havenever been in a bittersweet
moment, it's very difficult toexplain that emotion.

(01:00:06):
But when you've lived somethingthat is bittersweet, it is that
at the exact yeah, there's noother way to describe it.
Yeah you're grateful, yeah, andthere is joy there, but you're
also holding space for sorrowand yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:00:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:00:26):
Yeah, and there's never going to be a time where
I'm not.
You know that I I'm not wishingthey were here you know, Everly
and my mom, which you know,losing my mom, that's that's.
That's what's supposed tohappen, you know, you're
supposed to, you know atsupposed to happen, you know
you're supposed to.

Speaker 2 (01:00:46):
You know, at some point you're going to lose your
parents because they're olderthan you, and that's the circle
of life and all that.
But it doesn't make it easier.
Yeah, and do you have?
You know, I still have myparents and but but you had some
scary things happen.

Speaker 3 (01:00:53):
I've had some really really scary things.

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
Um, I just made an appointment with my therapist
cause I, you know, I Icompartmentalize and I go into.
You know Renee Brown calls itthe.
I forget what she uses, but shejust takes over and takes
control and does all the things.
And that's exactly me and Ineed help just learning to be at

(01:01:15):
ease and enjoy them whilethey're here.

Speaker 1 (01:01:20):
And that's.

Speaker 2 (01:01:21):
You know, I think Lord, I don't ever.
I go to bed at night.
Sometimes I just cry and Ithink I don't want to have any
regrets.
You know, I want to spend asmuch time and I want them to
know how much they're loved.
Yes.
And I feel like I fell at that.
And my parents live with me nownow, but you know, even in the

(01:01:41):
seeing them every day, I alwayswrestle between how much time I
could be spending with them andhow much time I also have to
devote to work and well, yeahyou know it's it's very hard,
it's hard to juggle, it is, Imean.

Speaker 3 (01:01:59):
And one thing I do recall saying when we lost
Everly, I think I was talking toKayla actually and I was like
you.
And one thing I do recallsaying when we lost everly, I
think I was talking to kaylaactually and I was like you know
, one thing I can say is zeroregrets.
I spent so much time with her.
She knew she was loved her.
She didn't know that her lifewas short.
Right, she loved every secondof it other than being sick and

(01:02:20):
being in the hospital, like evenin the hospital, not feeling
good.
Yeah, even in the hospital, thatgirl made the best of every
situation which made it easieron us.

Speaker 2 (01:02:29):
Yeah, because she didn't have fear.
No, yeah, that would be hard.

Speaker 3 (01:02:33):
And you know.
But I don't regret anythingbecause I spent every second
that I could with her, andthat's one thing that I have to
say.
That I am lucky in that senseis I don't have any regrets.
And with your mom like.
What advice do you have?

Speaker 2 (01:02:52):
I mean it's tough to lose your mom Now that she's not
here.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:02:55):
I mean, I know my dad's probably gonna watch this,
so no offense, dad, but whenyou lose your mom, that's my mom
, that's my person, she's theone I'd call.
She was my cheerleader.
Yeah, so that was hard.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:03:15):
What would you?

Speaker 3 (01:03:15):
It doesn't get easier , like I said, I mean it doesn't
get easier.

Speaker 2 (01:03:20):
Is there anything you would do different had you
known?

Speaker 3 (01:03:23):
I probably would have spent more time with her.

Speaker 2 (01:03:25):
Yeah, yeah are there, do you find I?
This is what I think about whenI'm laying in bed at night is
what questions do I want to askthem, which I haven't, you know.
Um, but what?
What questions am I?
Am I going to want to ask themwhen they're not here?

Speaker 3 (01:03:44):
Cause you know you're going to lose them.
I mean that that's, that's.
That's the thing.
I mean, unfortunately, thatthat is what happens.
You will lose your parents.
I mean normally cycle of life.
Yeah, you, you know you outlivethem.
That that's, that's how it'ssupposed to be, um, but I can
tell you right now, even if youspend every day with them,
you're gonna feel like youdidn't spend enough time with
them yeah.
I mean, that's just the reality.

Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
I feel that.
I feel that now they live withyou.

Speaker 3 (01:04:07):
So I mean, you're never gonna feel like you did
enough, you're never gonna feellike you spent enough time with
them.
I mean, like a few days beforewe lost my mom, kayla and I
actually had gone over to theirhouse and we were just hanging
out and talking to my mom.
I'm so thankful that we didthat now, because we we had no
idea.
Yeah.

(01:04:27):
Like I said, yes, she was, youknow, sick and her body was
tired, but we, we didn't had noidea we were going to lose her.
And I'm glad I did that,because I have that now, that
memory.
Um, you know, that last, thatlast good memory with her,
that's really my last goodmemory with her before she
passed.
Yeah, yeah.

(01:04:47):
God knew.

Speaker 2 (01:04:49):
Yeah, I don't really know what else to say this is a
tough topic.

Speaker 3 (01:04:57):
It really is, but you know.

Speaker 2 (01:04:59):
And you know, carrie, there's those of of us um me.
I can't speak for everyone elseat church, but um, it's a
blessing to see you there and Ilook for you when you're not
there and I know I get textmessages when I'm not there.
Yeah, and I.
I don't text, but I notice and Iknow you're home with the baby

(01:05:20):
now that that he has arrived, um, but I I just can't say enough
how encouraging it is, you know,just to look across the church
and to see you there and um,knowing all the things that you
guys have been through, and andand, um, I know that in the end,

(01:05:42):
I don't know how, I do not knowhow, um, but I I do know
someone has said if, if it's notgood, if if it's not good, then
God's not done.
Yeah, and I really, I reallybelieve that it's not, that

(01:06:03):
we're not going to struggle, butI do think we're going to come
into a time of rejoicing, and itis going to be bittersweet I
live with bittersweet a lot butit does also keep you at such a
place of thankfulness, also keepyou at such a place of

(01:06:25):
thankfulness.
You know to where you just youjust become really grateful for
all the little things, and Ithink that also is a gift.

Speaker 3 (01:06:29):
Yeah, well, and a big thing right now is that I'm
just so thankful for the promisethat we have for eternal life
after this, because this, thistruly is just temporary.
Yeah, this is not our foreverhome.

Speaker 2 (01:06:44):
Oh yeah, and I think the longer we live, the more
we're ready to absolutely yeahbecause life is life is not easy
and god is really not no, he'sfaithful, he strengthens us, he
blesses us, um.
But I think there is that spacewhere there's nothing like

(01:07:05):
being in the presence of God,and to just be there always
would be so wonderful.
But I really appreciate youcoming on and talking about this
very difficult, hard subjectand I hope that it helps
somebody out there.
And I hope that it helpssomebody out there.
I know that I personally seepeople often who is going

(01:07:27):
through loss.

Speaker 3 (01:07:29):
Yeah, and I wish I had answers for them, but I
don't.
I mean, we're all juststruggling.
So I mean, and everybody'sgrief is different, but you know
, for me, like I said, God is mystrength, so that's how I get
through it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:41):
Yeah for me.
Like I said, god is my strength, so that's how I get through it
.
Yeah, but I think there isn'tan answer, and just learning to
be and sharing where you're atis important, just being able to
say where you're at and it andit's still a process and it's
going to be.
I think that can be comfortingin and of itself, that there
really is nothing no one can donothing anyone can say there is

(01:08:05):
not one thing in this world thatis going to make it better.
It is just um something that youlearn.
You learn to live with, youlearn to adapt with you learn to
find um joy and gratitude andum yeah, and and I think you
know we talk about therapy a lotsetting proper expectations,

(01:08:27):
because whatever I'm expecting Ican be disappointed by, and so,
if for no other reasonhopefully this serves as a tool
to not have any expectations forsomeone going through grief is
take all your expectations offthe table.
There isn't going to be amagical day that you're going to
feel better.

Speaker 3 (01:08:48):
No you know, and that people who, who have never
experienced grief, sometimesdon't get that.
And lucky for them that theydon't get that.
You know they think at somepoint you'll be, you'll be okay.
No, we'll never be okay.
Yeah, we will'll be okay.
No, we'll never be okay.
We will never be okay.

Speaker 2 (01:09:03):
I have a client who has said when is this going to
get better?
When am I going to stop crying?
I hate to be the one that saysyou learn to be grateful for the
good days and you can have joywhile grieving, but the problem
with grief is it never leavesyou, ever.

Speaker 3 (01:09:24):
It never leaves you.
It just sometimes is in theback rather than in the front,
but sometimes it's in the frontand I mean it never leaves,
though it's always there, rightIn some form you know, and, and,
yeah, holding it at the sametime as you live, you know it.

Speaker 2 (01:09:45):
it does become manageable as a very insensitive
description, but it's true.

Speaker 3 (01:09:49):
I mean you learn to live with it, you learn how to
get through the days, but I meanit's always there, it never
leaves.

Speaker 2 (01:09:58):
Yeah yeah, it never leaves, yeah, yeah.
And so for the audience, youknow we're talking about grief.
As a therapist, I have reallybegan to look at grief being one
of the major emotions that wedo not usually deal with or
address, because, if you know,we think about grief definitely

(01:10:22):
with, uh, someone that we lovepassing away.
But grief also exists indivorce, and it could also exist
, um, when you lose your bestfriend, or when you, you know um
leave home, or in all thelittle life experiences.
Grief is such a huge emotionbecause it leaves that scar and

(01:10:45):
that scar is always there.

Speaker 3 (01:10:48):
It's always there.

Speaker 2 (01:10:49):
Yeah, it's always there and so, um, yeah, I, I'm
ending this.
I know this is like a reallyweird episode and you know it's
not going to end on a hallelujahand you know it's not going to
end on a hallelujah.

Speaker 3 (01:11:02):
It's not going to end on a good note.

Speaker 2 (01:11:03):
But you know, I do think God carries us through and
God is with us in it, and hedoesn't always take everything
from us.
And so, if for no other reason,I hope that this communicated
that he is there.

(01:11:26):
He is there in the stillness,he is there in the struggle, and
that we don't always know whatit's going to look like or what
the reasons are, but we have tohave faith, um but we have to
have faith, even small as amustard seed, even if we can
just say God, you're real.

(01:11:47):
That is the extent of the faiththat I can have today.
Yeah.
That's still faith.
Yeah.
And I think he could work withthat.
You know, you may not be ableto reconcile whether or not he's
good.
You may not be able toreconcile whether or not he's up
there punishing you.
You know, but if you canreconcile God, I know you're

(01:12:09):
real and I, you know, we'll juststart there.
It's a start and so, anyways, Ihope this helps somebody.
I don't know if it did, but I'mreally grateful that Carrie was
able to come in and talk aboutwhat she's been through and what

(01:12:32):
her family is still goingthrough.
And for anyone out there thatprays hopefully everybody
watching prays if you could justpray for her and her family.
You know we get weary and weneed strength and I've seen in
my own life God just give mestrength to make it through the

(01:12:56):
day, and not everybody is therein their walk.
You know, somewhere along theline they will be.
But you know, if you could justpray for the weary, the saints
that are just weary, the peoplethat suffer loss, and Carrie and
her family particularly.
That would be wonderful, BecauseGod is listening, he does hear,

(01:13:18):
and so any final parting wordsNot really Okay.
Thanks for being here.
Thanks for having me.
And thanks for watchingeverybody Bye.

Speaker 1 (01:13:36):
If you have a story of redemption or have worn the
label of a backslider, we wouldlove to hear from you.
If you'd like to support ourministry, your donation will be
tax deductible.
Visit our website attheredeemedbacksliderorg.
We hope you will tune in forour next episode.