The Weight & The Glory TRB #34 Luis "Pops" Pena

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Some stories grip you because they name the ache you’ve been carrying. Luis grew up in church, but grief took him someplace colder—anger he couldn’t shake, music that deepened the mood, and pornography he couldn’t confess. He didn’t storm out on God; hope just thinned until silence felt easier. When conviction finally met courage, he chose the terrifying route: tell the truth, trust a pastor, and let his wife see the parts he hid. What happened next reframed everything he believed about obedience, provision, and what strength looks like in a man.

We walk through the layered fallout of loss and secrecy, from the way our inputs shape our inner life to the subtle ways shame starves intimacy. Luis explains how fasting and prayer did different work—prayer softened him, fasting broke the bitterness. In the hardest year—jobless, living with his parents, expecting a new baby—doors opened he didn’t knock on: a surprise interview, early pay advanced for required tests, and a rental home against the odds. Those moments didn’t reward his goodness; they revealed God’s goodness and taught him to recognize the weight of God’s presence as glory, not guilt.

Listen in for the rest of his testimony.

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Welcome to the Redeemed Backslider.
With your host, Kathy Chestday,Christian-based psychotherapist,
the Redeemed Backslider.
This podcast is dedicated tothose who are pondered but are
ready to return to thelife-changing power of grace and
freedom of Jesus.

SPEAKER_03 (00:22):
Hi, welcome to the Redeemed Backslider.
I'm your host, Kathy Chastain.
I'm a Christian-basedpsychotherapist and a redeemed
backslider.
With me today in this studio isLewis Pena.
He goes by Pops.
So throughout the show, I mightbe calling him Pops.
Um, but uh he is recentlyrededicated his life to the

(00:44):
Lord.
So um I was super excited to beable to hear his testimony.
Again, he's someone that I'vegone to church with for quite a
long time, five years at least.
And I think this is the firsttime we have ever talked, you
know, except for hello and awave, maybe a handshake at
church.

(01:05):
But um so, you know, if thispodcast doesn't bless anybody
else, it definitely blesses mebecause I'm getting to know the
stories of people that I've justtaken for granted for much too
long.
So um, thank you for coming.

SPEAKER_04 (01:22):
You're welcome.
Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_03 (01:24):
Yeah, I'm really glad you're here.
Um, so you're 30 years old.
Yes.
And how long ago did yourededicate your life?

SPEAKER_05 (01:34):
I'd say three years.

SPEAKER_03 (01:36):
So for three years you've been on this journey
back.
Yes.
Okay.
So um I guess we'll just startin your childhood.
Yeah.
So tell me what that was likegrowing up.
Are you the second?

SPEAKER_05 (01:51):
I'm the middle child, yes.
You're the middle child.

SPEAKER_03 (01:54):
And what was life like as a middle child and a boy
at that?

SPEAKER_05 (01:58):
Uh it was great.
It was a challenge.
Um, being the only boy, um,surrounded by sisters, and a lot
of my family was women.
My aunts, they had cousins, theywere all women.
Um, my younger cousins wereboys, so there's an age gap
difference.

SPEAKER_02 (02:15):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (02:16):
Um, it was good.
Um we were raised at church, soI always had that background on
me.
Um but yeah, it was good.
I don't never really had anytrauma in you know, growing up
as a kid.
Um I always had good parentsthat were just always there for
me and always led me in theright path.

(02:37):
Um but yeah, it was good.

SPEAKER_03 (02:39):
Were you involved?
Um were you involved in churchas a kid?
Were you involved in Sundayschool and the youth department?

SPEAKER_05 (02:47):
Yeah, so growing up I was involved in Sunday school.
Um, they had a kids' club atthat time, which I believe where
I first got the Holy Ghost, um,was in kids' club.
Um and then growing up, I was inyouth service, you know, under
which is now our pastor, so it'spretty cool to have your youth
pastor now your pastor.
Um and in youth I was involvedin the praise team as well.

SPEAKER_03 (03:08):
Oh, you were okay.
So you can sing.

SPEAKER_05 (03:12):
Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (03:13):
Well, I know your mom can sing.
I I I don't know.
I've never heard of it.

SPEAKER_05 (03:18):
I can.
I just I guess we'll find outwith the time to come.

SPEAKER_03 (03:22):
Do you like it?
Do you like to sing?

SPEAKER_05 (03:24):
I growing up, I've always loved music.
Um, I've always seen quietly inmy own space, but uh music was
always a big thing for me.
You'd always find me withheadphones in my ear.

SPEAKER_03 (03:35):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (03:36):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (03:36):
Yeah.
It's um it's a great, you know,same for me too.
Uh music has always kind of hadthe words that I didn't have for
myself.
And so um, I would find, youknow, someone else singing my
feelings, and so it was easy torelate to.
Yes, definitely.
So um did you I asked thisquestion because as I've done

(04:03):
this this podcast, so manypeople who have grown up on the
pew in church didn't always havea relationship with God, you
know.
Um, and so I I want to ask thatquestion.
Did you feel like you knew theLord, that you had your
relationship with God as a as akid or a teenager?

SPEAKER_05 (04:23):
Um personally now older, I feel that I knew about
God, but I didn't know him.

SPEAKER_02 (04:28):
Okay.

SPEAKER_05 (04:29):
So growing up, I got to know him more, you know, with
Bible studies and just beingolder, I guess my mentalities
change.
So I don't think I had a strongrelationship with God growing
up, but I did know about him.

SPEAKER_03 (04:42):
But you serve you served him in the way that you
knew how.
The way you know you go to youthgroup, the way other kids are
doing it, and going to church onSundays.
But for your own personalexperience, did you know there
was a difference, or are youjust learning it now that you've
kind of rededicated your kind oflearning now the difference?

(05:04):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (05:04):
And I can feel the difference.

SPEAKER_03 (05:06):
Right, right.
Yeah, yeah.
Okay.
I I was just curious because youknow, some may say, yeah, I went
to church my whole life.
I really like it didn't everregister really for some people,
and then God comes and deliversthem in their older years, and
so I was just curious.
So, so what is your story?

(05:29):
I mean, tell me tell me whattell me what happened.

SPEAKER_05 (05:33):
Um, I think a lot of it had to do with death in the
family.
Um sorry if I get teary eyed, itmight be quite a bit in this
episode.
Um, I lost my grandparents at ayoung age.
Um it played a big role in mylife.
Uh grandparents from my dad'sside.
Okay.
So, you know, found out mygrandpa had cancer.
Um at that point, I was I wantto say 15, 16.

(05:59):
Um, so it kind of hit hard.

SPEAKER_02 (06:00):
Yeah, that's a tough age.

SPEAKER_05 (06:02):
And kind of in youth, and you know, kind of
knowing a little bit about Godand it really tested me.
Um and it didn't end up well,obviously.

SPEAKER_03 (06:11):
Um did you question God?

SPEAKER_05 (06:14):
I did, I questioned God why.
Um because it was tough.
Yeah.
You know, he I was raised aroundhim my whole life too, and my
grandma.
So I think that kinda pushed meto the point that I was at where
I was just done, I guess, in away.

(06:34):
Um because we lost him, and thenmy grandma was sick, his wife,
and that was tough too.
Um she had a blood disease, Ibelieve it was, and she would
stay with us at times, and Igrew real close to her, more
close than I was, because umshe'd stay at our house, I'd
help change out her dressingwounds on her feet and stuff,

(06:56):
and you know, she actually wasbaptized in Jesus' name and had
the Holy Ghost.
Um, so it still was toughthough.

SPEAKER_02 (07:04):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (07:04):
And she was she came to our church quite some times,
and it was just still toughbecause I lost one, then I lost
the other.

SPEAKER_02 (07:11):
Right.

SPEAKER_05 (07:12):
Um, I want to say within a year to two year span.

SPEAKER_01 (07:15):
So it was Wow, very close together.

SPEAKER_05 (07:17):
Yeah, I felt no time to really grieve.
Right.
Um, and then after that, it wastwo years later, I lost my
uncle, which was their son.
Um, and that was kind of toughtoo.
Um, we weren't super close, butit wasn't.
He was always there around allthe time, you know.
So and then there was timeswhere he stayed with um me and

(07:38):
my family when I was probablyabout 16 or so.
So, and we shared a room, so wekind of got close at that time.
Um, and then you know, tragicaccident happened and he passed
away too.
So I I kind of feel that's whereI kind of stepped away, kind of
just through the towel.

SPEAKER_03 (08:02):
I think loss is some I I think it hits everybody
different, but um there is a lotof confusion when someone passes
away and you're young you're ayoung kid, you you know the
question always gets asked isGod why?

(08:23):
Yes, why did this have tohappen?
And um yeah that was a lot ofloss for you.

SPEAKER_05 (08:33):
It was it was probably within a six, seven
year span.

SPEAKER_03 (08:37):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (08:38):
Um don't quote me on the ages.
I'm not a hundred percent sureon the ages, but I mean it was
it was pretty tough.
I found myself in a lot ofsilence.

SPEAKER_03 (08:49):
Yeah.
Do you feel like you evergrieved it or you just kind of
shut down?
I do.

SPEAKER_05 (08:54):
Um now coming back to God, um, it took me a while.
Um but I feel I dealt with itnow.
It still hits close to homebecause they're a huge part of
my life.

SPEAKER_03 (09:08):
Right, right.

SPEAKER_05 (09:09):
So, but yeah, it took some time, a lot of time
actually.

SPEAKER_03 (09:12):
Lewis, when you when you asked God why and and all of
that happened, do you rememberif you made a conscious choice
to like walk away from God, orwas it just that you were just
hurting so much and you justdidn't know how to pray anymore?

SPEAKER_05 (09:37):
I think I don't want to say conscious, but more of a
hurt just because I didn't knowwhat to do.
I didn't know who to turn to.
I mean, obviously my parentswere there and stuff, I could
have turned to them, but at ayoung kid, you're you don't
think about those things.
Right.
Um and I turned to music a lot.
Music that wasn't good for me.

SPEAKER_03 (09:58):
Yeah.
Yeah, music has such aninfluence.
I always wonder because I youknow, I've heard stories where
people get angry at God and theyblame God and they just that's
it, they're done.
They just wash their hands andwalk away, and then that opens
the door to so much otherthings.
But I I I also understand justbeing so hurt and disappointed

(10:22):
and just feeling like you don'tknow what to do with that
disappointment.
So you just kind of give up,stop praying, stop hoping.

SPEAKER_05 (10:32):
And that's what a lot of it was just
disappointment.
Yeah.
Because you hear all thestories, you hear all the the
testimonies, and you sit thereand you wonder why, you know.

SPEAKER_03 (10:45):
Testimonies of what God can do, you mean to heal,
and then when he doesn't heal,yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (10:50):
Yeah, and I think it's tough for everybody.
Sure.
Because you always have that whyin your head.

SPEAKER_03 (10:56):
Right, right.
Yeah, because when you're aChristian, we read the Bible and
we know that God can doanything.
Yes.
You know, so we expect him to dothe impossible or we expect him
to heal, you know, and it issuch a difficult thing.
I've said it many times beforeon this, but I know that God

(11:17):
does answer those questions whenthe time is right.
He gives us answers, you know.
Yeah, so I could I couldunderstand how that would lead
you down a different road.
Yes.
So then where'd you go fromthere?

SPEAKER_05 (11:35):
Um, so from there, music kind of just drove me away
from everybody and everything.

SPEAKER_03 (11:40):
Um kind of isolated.

SPEAKER_05 (11:41):
Yeah, in a way.
I mean, family was always there,I was always around.
I just was isolated to myselfand what I put in my ears.

SPEAKER_03 (11:50):
Um Do you think anyone noticed?

SPEAKER_05 (11:54):
Uh that I'm not sure.
I'm sure that in a in a sense,you know, you kind of notice
when people change.
Attitude changes, demeanorchanges.
Um thinking in my head, I don'tknow for sure if anybody ever
asked, How are you feeling?
I'm sure people did, but at thetime, that age, I just would
shrug it off.

SPEAKER_02 (12:15):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (12:15):
Because I was just so hurt and disappointed.

SPEAKER_02 (12:18):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (12:18):
Um, because it was just all so much at once.
Even though it wasn't all atonce.

SPEAKER_03 (12:23):
Right.
It felt like it.

SPEAKER_05 (12:24):
Yeah, it felt like it.

SPEAKER_03 (12:25):
I mean, some people go their whole childhood and
never have a loss, and you know,yeah.
Or go through midlife and neverhave a loss.
So for you to lose three in yourteens, it's a lot.

SPEAKER_05 (12:37):
Yeah, it was a lot, yes.
Um from there I just um musicwas a huge influence, like I
said, on my life, and I wouldlisten to secular music that
just wasn't good for my ears.
Um, it starts putting thoughtsin your heads and you start
thinking of things.
Um like what?
Just you s I never reallyquestion life, like having

(13:00):
thoughts like that, but I justalways would have negative
thoughts in my head, just kindof anger, basically, anger and
bitterness towards God justbecause of the loss.

SPEAKER_03 (13:11):
So I'm gonna try to dig a little deeper here with
the thoughts because I I'm doinga whole separate research thing
on that and and what goes onaround the thoughts, but the
Bible says as a man thinketh inhis heart, so is he, because
thoughts create emotion and thenemotion creates action.

(13:34):
So I'm very, very curious alwaysat what pe you know, the
thoughts that enter people'smind.
I believe they're the fierydarts of the enemy, especially
when they're negative like that.
But um, could you elaborate uhabout the kinds of thoughts that
you were having?

SPEAKER_05 (13:54):
Um, I don't really have specific thoughts.
I know the music it plays a bigpart in your life and what you
put in your ears and what youreyes see.
Um, thoughts that I had was justanger.
Just it was always angry andbitter.
I didn't really have specificthoughts that I can think of,
but I just always remember beinganger and holding on to
bitterness and just Okay, okay.

(14:16):
Yeah, I'm sorry if I won't touchthe point on that.

SPEAKER_03 (14:18):
No, no, it's okay.
I mean, uh people, you know,yeah, people don't always often
know.
They just they kind of mostlyknow what they feel.
Yeah.
Um, but yeah, there is a lot ofmusic that's kind of very
violent in nature and and kindof promotes all of that
aggression.
Yes, you know, so did you everfight?

(14:39):
Did you ever lash out?

SPEAKER_05 (14:44):
I just just towards family and friends, was just
always in that anger and bitterstate, basically.

SPEAKER_03 (14:49):
Yeah.
And you said you felt like thattowards God.

SPEAKER_05 (14:52):
Yes.
Yeah.
I was just angry, angry, lookingfor an answer, but I just felt
like I couldn't find it.
Yeah.
Um it did lead me to looking atporn.
Um you know, it took a while toget over that that stump.
Um, obviously, because it's veryaddictive, you know, it's and

(15:15):
the music didn't help.

SPEAKER_03 (15:16):
I was gonna say, do you think that came through
music?

SPEAKER_05 (15:19):
I think so.
Just the music that I chose tolisten to.
Okay.
I listened to a lot of rap, hiphop.
Okay.
Um, you know, they symbolizewomen drugs and all that stuff.
So I believe that played a bigrole in it.
Um, I don't really remember everbeing like exposed to it.

SPEAKER_03 (15:37):
Um, but I guess other than through music.

SPEAKER_05 (15:40):
Yeah, so you know it sparks that thought in your
head, you know.
You hear all those things inyour ear coming in six, eight
hours a day because you'relistening to that, you know,
it's like it becomes a part ofyou.

SPEAKER_03 (15:50):
Yeah.
Oh, what's that?
What's that?
What are they talking about?
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (15:54):
Definitely.
Um, so you know, it led me downthat path.
Um it took a while to get overthat.
Um, I moved out of my house at18.
Um, it's when I met my wife too.
Um, we've been together for awhile, only been married for a
few years, kind of took a whileto get married.

SPEAKER_03 (16:13):
Did you move out and then move in with her at that
time, or did you move out andget your own place?

SPEAKER_05 (16:17):
Well, we moved in together.

SPEAKER_03 (16:19):
Okay.

SPEAKER_05 (16:19):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (16:20):
Um now did you meet her at church?

SPEAKER_05 (16:24):
No, I met her at a job that I had.

SPEAKER_03 (16:26):
Okay.

SPEAKER_05 (16:26):
Unfortunately, um, so I met her there and then um
just progressed from there andwe moved in together.
Um, like I said, we've beentogether for a long time.
Uh I probably don't know theexact years, but it's about 19
probably, so 10 years together.
I think we've been married twoyears now.

SPEAKER_02 (16:45):
So that's great.

SPEAKER_05 (16:46):
So we've been together for quite some time.
It's 12 years basically in myhead.
Uh a lot of growth in that.
Um like I said, the struggleswere there.
Um, so once we moved intogether, we were both weren't
in church.
Um she knew that I came from achurch background.
Um I kind of struggled with pornstill a little bit at the time.

(17:11):
Um and it was kind of stuff thatshe didn't really know about.
So um years later down the road,you know, things start to come
to light, and it's kind of whenI started to come back to
church.
It just was a point in my lifewhere I just remember asking
God, you know, I want to becloser to you, you know.
And I kind of knew at the timethat that came with a cost.

SPEAKER_02 (17:33):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (17:33):
Um so I didn't in a way I was relieved that it came
out, you know, because it helpedtilt our marriage more.
Um and you know, having thesupport of pastor and of family,
it really helped out a lot.
Um never did I see being myselfbeing able to tell my wife um

(17:54):
because who would want to?
Right.
You know, um, but the time wasright.
Um, I had to come out and sayit.
Um, most men probably would shyaway from it and they try to
hide it as long as you can,which is what I did.
Um so it, you know, it brought alot of hurt to her too.
Um and it helped ourrelationship grow a lot though.

(18:17):
You know, we started doing Biblestudies with Pastor, we started
praying more, um, fastingtogether, you know, just things
that help grow us together.
Because so she came to churchfirst before I came to church.

SPEAKER_02 (18:28):
Oh, she did?
Yes.

SPEAKER_05 (18:30):
So she came to church first.
Um, she got the Holy Ghost.
I believe she went with my auntand my mom to a woman's retreat.

SPEAKER_04 (18:36):
Oh.

SPEAKER_05 (18:37):
And she got the Holy Ghost there, and then she came
back and got baptized at thechurch.
Um, and she'd always pray forme, you know, always, you know,
hey, you're gonna come back tochurch, you're gonna go back to
church.
Um, obviously the kids would gowith her.
Um, and I just in my head, I wasno, you know, I I didn't want to
go back, especially going backto the same church that I was

(18:57):
in.
I kind of just felt the shame,yeah, you know, and the guilt
and everything that came withit.

SPEAKER_03 (19:02):
Yeah.
I'm gonna pause real quick forif if there's anyone out there
watching, um, being filled withthe Holy Ghost, we call it Holy
Ghost in in um our Pentecostalchurch, but um a lot of people
refer to it as the Holy Spirit.
It's the same.
The Bible actually says both.

(19:23):
Um, but that is the baptism ofthe Holy Ghost when Jesus comes
and fills us on the inside.
And so, anyways, that's what youwere talking about with Kristen,
your wife, right?
Yes.
Um, can I go back to somethingabout the pornography?
Yes.
And and if you don't want to govery deep here, we don't have

(19:45):
to, but um, you know, I Iwonder, like with men, if I if
you could speak to what goes onin the thoughts and minds,
because you know, pornographyaffects so so many people, male
and female, and um and just thementalities.

(20:10):
So were you caught looking atporn, or was it something that
the Lord had been convicting youover, and you then just opened
up to her about it?

SPEAKER_05 (20:23):
So I felt a conviction, but being in the
state I was in, I wasn't like,oh, I'm gonna tell her.

SPEAKER_02 (20:30):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (20:31):
So it kind of came to light.
Okay.
I don't want to expose names asto who it came to light to and
how I found out and stuff likethat.
But um, you know, they gave me acall, hey, you know, I think
it's time you need to tell yourwife what's going on.
And in my head, I was like, Ididn't answer that call when it
came.
It was over a voicemail, hey,can you give me a call back,

(20:51):
this and that?
Um, but in my head, you know,and in my heart I felt relief
because I knew it was time.
Sure.
And, you know, it's kind of whatI was praying for, you know,
God, I want to be closer to you.
And like I said, I know thatcloseness comes at a cost, so I
was this is something thatneeded to be crossed um to get
to that closeness.

(21:12):
Um because I desired somethingmore than what I had when I was
a teenager.

SPEAKER_03 (21:16):
Right, right.
And so how long were youstruggling with pornography?

SPEAKER_05 (21:21):
Um, I'd say growing up, probably when I was 16, 15,
maybe even younger.
Um, it was just always aconstant thing.
Um that I struggled with as ateenager.

SPEAKER_03 (21:34):
So this might be too personal.
If it is, you can tell me.
But there is a book called UmOut of the Shadows, written by
um I forget his name right now,Patrick Carnes, I believe.
Um, but it it talks about theprogression of pornography being

(21:54):
very similar as the progressionof alcoholism, meaning that you
don't just stop at one point, itcontinues to progress.
And the types of pornography,the frequency of pornography,
that whole entire world of sexbegins to get really slippery

(22:14):
and open up to all new things.
Did you do you did you seeyourself being interested in
different types, differentthings in pornography, or or did
yours sort of stay stagnant?

SPEAKER_05 (22:28):
Um, over time, I'd say, you know, it kind of went
different routes.
I mean, anybody that's been inthat scenario, they kind of know
that there's just stuff outthere that comes.
Yeah.
And like you said, the frequencyand the algorithms that come,
it's just yeah.
And when you're that deep intolust and sin, it just at that
point you just clicking onwhatever.

SPEAKER_03 (22:50):
Right, right, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (22:52):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (22:52):
Yeah.
One day we'll do a whole podcastabout pornography because I I do
think that it is the umacceptable sin, you know, among
Christians, because not not thatit's acceptable ever, but it it
seems to be minimized, I think.

(23:14):
I think so.
Quite a bit.

SPEAKER_05 (23:17):
Maybe part of it's just people don't expose
themselves as much and come tolight with it.
So it's kind of that hidden sinthat a lot of people deal with,
and nobody ever knows.

SPEAKER_03 (23:28):
Yeah, yeah.
I I think uh I think the vastmajority of men deal with it
unless or until they've come tothis crossroads in their life
because it's it's pervasive.
I mean, I would I don't know ifI can say this absolutely a
hundred percent, but I don'tthink I have ever met a man,

(23:49):
both through my clientele baseor people that I've known in my
personal life who have not had apornography issue.
I just think it's thatpervasive.
So I know it's definitelyhappening in the church.
And um anyways, but I I thinkthat what did you notice or did

(24:11):
you notice any barriers that itthat it um put between you and
your wife in your marriage?

SPEAKER_05 (24:18):
Um yeah, I think just a lot of anger that would
come from me.

SPEAKER_03 (24:23):
Can you just describe that a little bit more?

SPEAKER_05 (24:27):
Okay, you know, just because you were feeling guilty,
because you were feeling justthe guilt and just the sin
itself just had a hold of methat I just was just in that
bitter anger state, plus stillwas always dealing with the
bitterness from the passings ofmy grandparents and uncle, and a
lot of it just mustered upinside and just just held on to

(24:49):
for so long and just createdthat dark space in my heart
where I was just kind of like Ididn't really care, I guess, in
a way.

SPEAKER_03 (24:57):
Yeah, do you feel like you pushed her away because
of all of that?
Like or kept her at arm'slength?

SPEAKER_05 (25:03):
Maybe.
Um, but she's always been therefor me, man.
I mean just countless times.
I mean, I'm thankful that shecame to church first and she
helped me bring me back, youknow, because her faith was
strong with what I went through.
And for her to stand stronglywith me, you know.
A lot of people, I don't thinkobviously that are not in

(25:27):
church, it's difficult forsituations like that where
people can just leave.
Yeah, you know, and I mean inchurch too, it could probably
happen.
Yeah, but just for her to havethat faith in me and know that I
could turn it around.

SPEAKER_02 (25:38):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (25:38):
Um, really helped out a lot.

SPEAKER_02 (25:40):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (25:41):
And you know, it did you know, it did cause a little
arms distance, I would say, Iguess.
Um but she was always there,always there for me, and I'm
grateful, more grateful than Icould ever explain to for her to
be there for me and to have heras a wife is incredible.

SPEAKER_03 (26:00):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (26:00):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (26:01):
Well, you must have been vulnerable and and open to
her throughout.
I the reason I asked is that umshame and secrets tend to cause
people to not allow themselvesto be close because they know
that they're hiding something.

(26:21):
So that prevents a completelevel of intimacy that and I
don't mean sex intimacy, I meanjust closeness intimacy because
we know there's a secret there.
Yeah.
So I wondered if you had noticedthat or not.

SPEAKER_05 (26:36):
Um, I probably did.
I just kind of shrugged it off.

SPEAKER_03 (26:40):
Didn't identify it.

SPEAKER_05 (26:41):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, just because, like I said, Imean, sin takes a hold of your
life, and yeah, you don't thinkright.

unknown (26:47):
Right.

SPEAKER_05 (26:47):
You're in a different headspace, you know.

SPEAKER_03 (26:49):
Yeah, it's not really you.

SPEAKER_05 (26:50):
Yeah, it's it and it just had me.

SPEAKER_03 (26:53):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (26:54):
And then like I said, just dealing with all the
the passings.

SPEAKER_03 (26:57):
Uh so if I heard you right, I just want to clarify
this is what I heard you say.
So someone calls you on thephone and basically lets you
know it's a voicemail.
Yeah, let you know that, hey,it's time you address this or
time you tell your wife.

SPEAKER_05 (27:14):
Just kind of like time to tell your wife, like
because this person they prayedfor me a lot too.
And you know, how they foundout, I don't know.
It's totally fine with me.
Um, there was no bitterness oranger.
It was just like I said, it wasa relief.
Yeah.
Like finally the weight liftedoff.

SPEAKER_03 (27:31):
But you said you ignored it.

SPEAKER_05 (27:33):
I did.
I didn't answer because I knewin my heart and in my mind, I
kind of knew that's what thecall was for.

SPEAKER_03 (27:38):
Oh, really?
Okay.

SPEAKER_05 (27:39):
It just just the way it was taking place.
It just kind of was like, allright.
Uh, you know, you get thatnervousness, but like I said, it
was like a wait, you know.
I didn't know how it was gonnacome out, how I was gonna tell
her.
Um, and it was just a test of myfaith, because even in that
time, um we moved in with myparents prior to my youngest

(28:02):
being born.
Um, we were there for a year, Ilost my job because I was trying
to take on another opportunitythat didn't happen.
Um, so in that year, it was justit's kind of when it's when it
happened, isn't that year?
Um you know, and not having ajob for a whole year, I was
searching like crazy.
Um, and my faith was reallytested.

SPEAKER_03 (28:22):
Um, because had you given your life back to God at
this point?

SPEAKER_05 (28:26):
I did.
So this was probably like withinthat first time, the first year
of the three years.
Um and it was tough.
It was real tough.
You know, I had a full-time joband I tried to take on an
opportunity that didn't happen,and I was like, why?
Like now I thought thisopportunity was gonna happen and
it didn't.
So here I am.

SPEAKER_03 (28:45):
Here I am, giving my life back to God.

SPEAKER_05 (28:47):
Yeah, here I am a whole year without a job.
Um, unemployment's coming in,but you know, unemployment
doesn't pay all the bills, itdoesn't help take care of the
kids, their needs that theyneed, you know.
Um, I just remember in that yearjust being tested every single
day, it felt like um, you know,praying to God, and in the time
we're searching for a housebecause our son's gonna be born

(29:08):
too, and thankful for my parentsto let us stay there and have
the spare rooms, you know.
Um, but in that year was tough.
I'd apply it everywhere that Ican think of, places I never
even heard of.
I was applying at places inFresno, anywhere close by that I
knew I could drive to.

SPEAKER_04 (29:24):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (29:24):
Um and it was just shut down after shutdown, and
you know, that's when thathappened with the phone call and
all that.

SPEAKER_01 (29:30):
And wow.

SPEAKER_05 (29:32):
So like I said, it was that closeness that I was
longing for, but knowing that itwas coming with that price.
Um and it did, it came with theprice, and it was the price that
I was willing to pay to takethat step to continue going
further.
Um, and then I got a phone callfrom a job that it was a temp

(29:54):
service, which in my head, I'mlike, I've never applied for a
temp service in my life.
I'm like, where's this comingfrom?
Way out of left field, andthey're like, Hey, this this job
wants to hire you.
They want to interview this andthat.
I go down there.
I think it was one interview,and then I got the call the next
day um saying, Hey, you got thejob.

SPEAKER_01 (30:11):
Wow.

SPEAKER_05 (30:12):
Yeah, it was it was awesome.
Um, I wasn't expecting it.
And it was kind of tough toobecause I didn't have the money
to pay for the tests that Ineeded for that job.
You know, they require a certaintest for you to pay for, and I
didn't have the money, and I waslike, I don't know what I'm
gonna do because I don't havethe money to pay for these tests
for this job.
Um, so I reached out to the tothe temp service and I asked

(30:36):
them, hey, you know, I don'teven want to ask this question,
but is there any way maybe youcould take it out of my future
check so that I can get thesetests done?
You know, I was like, I'm reallygrateful for the opportunity.
I didn't realize it was gonnacost this much to take the test.
And she said, you know, let mereach out to my supervisor.
We don't normally do this, um,so I have to reach out to her.
Um, so she reached out to her,she called me back, I believe it

(31:00):
was in a day or two, and she'slike, Hey, so my supervisor
approved, we're gonna cut youyour check early in hopes that
you're gonna continue your job.

SPEAKER_01 (31:08):
Wow.

SPEAKER_05 (31:09):
So she they cut me the check, and then I was able
to take the test to to get thejob, to fully get onto the job,
basically.

SPEAKER_03 (31:16):
Wow, that's great.

SPEAKER_05 (31:17):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (31:18):
So in your mind, you were obedient to confess and to
do what you needed to do, andthen the Lord rewarded you with
the job.

SPEAKER_05 (31:30):
I mean, because I asked for I feel like I asked
for that, I wanted thatcloseness, and like I said, I
knew it was gonna come with acost, so I just knew after that
I had to be obedient.
I have to do what he asks me todo.

SPEAKER_02 (31:42):
Right.

SPEAKER_05 (31:43):
Because he did all this for me and brought me so
far that why stop now?

SPEAKER_03 (31:49):
Right, right.
And you know, I I'm sure youknow this.
Um, but for anyone out there whohasn't been where you've been,
God never asks us to dosomething unless he knows that
it's going to benefit us.
Definitely.
He's he's not he's not tryingto, you know, get us to prove to

(32:14):
him by our works that we'rewe're gonna live for him.
He's asking us to trust him.
And I think that's what he wasasking you is trust me with
this.

SPEAKER_04 (32:25):
Yes.

SPEAKER_03 (32:26):
Um, because when you do, there's more you're going to
gain if you could just give methis, you know?
And I think that that isdefinitely before we cross that
bridge, we don't think that way.
We just think, oh, this is theprice I have to pay.
But I I've looked at it now asI've you know lived for God

(32:47):
longer, that it feels like aprice in the moment because it's
so scary and we don't know howwe're going to do it.
Yes.
But God's really trying to takesomething from us that doesn't
belong, you know, in in thepureness and true trueness of
who he calls us to be.
Yes.

(33:08):
So probably the gr one of thegreatest things you've done,
right?

SPEAKER_05 (33:11):
Yes, it is, definitely.
Uh huh.
Because it helped me so much toovercome a lot of bitterness and
anger.
Um, even coming back to churchwas tough.
I'd walk around with shame andguilt.
I'd wear it on my face,basically.

SPEAKER_02 (33:25):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (33:25):
Um, so it was real tough just because I've been
raised around these people, youknow?

SPEAKER_03 (33:30):
Yeah.
Um Do you feel the shame andguilt was coming from the
pornography, the sin?
I think so.
Or the or the bitterness.
Do you feel like when you sowalk me through how your wife
got you to come back to church?

SPEAKER_05 (33:45):
Oh man, it was just it's probably just the constant,
hey, you're gonna come to churchwith me this morning, you're
gonna come to church with methis morning.
And there'd be mornings I'd go.
Um, you know, hey, it's Mother'sDay, you're coming to church
with me.
So there's there's days I wouldgo and accept and still like,
okay, it's Mother's Day.
My parents are there too, myfamily's there.
Um, and I can't remember exactlythe service, but I know it was

(34:10):
Sister Shay playing the piano,and she was playing until
basically I had my breakthroughbecause I remember being up
there praying.
I just remember she was on thekeys the whole time.

SPEAKER_02 (34:20):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (34:21):
And I remember after she got down, she was like, I
was waiting for this.

SPEAKER_02 (34:24):
Oh, she's anointed for sure.

SPEAKER_05 (34:26):
So I like I said, I can't remember the exact
service, but that's when youknow I kind of had that
breakthrough that this was thetime.
Um, and ever since then, that'skind of when it just unfolded
from there.

SPEAKER_03 (34:37):
Did you feel yourself release the the anger
and the bitterness?

SPEAKER_05 (34:42):
Um, that I don't think went away right away.
Um, I feel like it did take sometime just because I was still
dealing with you know that angerand bitterness um that I let
grow so deep within me that itwasn't just gonna come out by
praying.

SPEAKER_02 (34:56):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (34:57):
Um I never fasted growing up, so I decided to do
the fastes that the church weredoing, doing some on my own
because I knew it needed to comeout of me.
Um, and I didn't think justprayer alone would do that.

SPEAKER_02 (35:12):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (35:13):
Um, although prayer helped me tremendously.

SPEAKER_02 (35:16):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (35:16):
Um, I just felt, you know, that starvation of the
flesh that basically held mecaptive was what needed to be
done.

SPEAKER_02 (35:24):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (35:25):
And it helped me.
It helped me a lot.
Um, it it took a while.
I used to be real bitter andangry.
Um just, you know, in the timewhen I wasn't in church and I'd
still go around family, it justalways had that anger and
bitterness in me, and I'm surethey could see it, you know.

SPEAKER_03 (35:41):
I just was it directed at anything particular?
Like, did you feel like you werejust bitter at the church, the
people in the church, yourparents, or or like was it
directive, or did it feel likejust that inside you were just I

(36:01):
think just inside angry at theworld.

SPEAKER_05 (36:03):
Angry at the world.
Okay.
Because I never really feltbitter or angry towards people.

SPEAKER_02 (36:07):
Okay.

SPEAKER_05 (36:07):
Um I just was angry inside.
I just was mad at the world,like you said, it just it
creates that in you and just youknow, there was probably times
where I, you know, probably hadhurt relationships just because
I wasn't there, you know, mendedrelationships with friends that
I probably had to remend.
And it took some time um becauseit was my actions, you know, me

(36:32):
and my sin is what got me inthat place.
So it took some time, butthey've healed and you know,
reconciled and stuff, and it wasjust angry at the world.
You know, yeah, I was I wasbitter and angry at God at
first, and then you know, thatkind of went away because I was
just out in the world doing myown thing, not going to church.
I wasn't and besidespornography, you know, I wasn't

(36:54):
really like into drugs ordrinking and alcohol.
I was just out there just asliving my life, you know.
Just mad, I guess, and angry.

SPEAKER_03 (37:03):
But and I would guess also there was a sense you
just didn't care.

SPEAKER_05 (37:07):
Yeah.
In a way, I just whatever'sgonna happen, happened type of
thing, day by day.
Yeah.
Um you know, I can tell theprayers were there for my family
and friends.
Um, because when I wasn't inchurch, I'd say I probably had
about two or three car accidentsthat it probably could have
taken my life.

SPEAKER_03 (37:27):
Oh, you're kidding.

SPEAKER_05 (37:28):
Yeah, that I came out unscathed.
Nothing wrong.
Um one of 'em was with ourchildren.
Um my stepchildren at the time.
Um we were dropping my wife offat work and it was foggy, and
you know, we got T-boned, and II remember blacking out for a

(37:49):
moment.
Um, but I got up and I was like,the kids are in the car, I had
to get them out of the car, youknow?
And everybody was fine.

SPEAKER_01 (37:56):
Wow.

SPEAKER_05 (37:56):
Um and then just growing up as a teenager, um I
was driving crazy and ran offinto an old warehouse that was
there, and they have thoselittle cattle gates that you
know hang goes so high off thefloor, and going back the next
day or a couple days later, Irealized that we just barely
missed that.

SPEAKER_01 (38:17):
Wow.

SPEAKER_05 (38:17):
You know, and I was in a Mustang lower car, so it
could have took the thob off.

SPEAKER_01 (38:21):
The whole time, yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (38:23):
So just knowing that the prayers are always there.
I always knew, you know, becausegrowing up in church, you know,
kind of feel like you know thatthe prayers are there, you know,
because things happen.
And you know, growing now olderand being in church now, I see
the prayers that are there, thatwere there all along.

SPEAKER_02 (38:41):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (38:42):
It's just the bitterness and anger that was
blinding me, you know.

SPEAKER_03 (38:45):
Um did you feel it when it left?
Did I feel did you feel did youfeel it when the bitterness and
anger left?
Did you physically feel it?
Did you know it when it actuallyleft?

SPEAKER_05 (39:01):
I think I knew it.
Um and I'm sure my family andfriends knew it.
My demeanor changed a lot.
I would never smile, I wouldnever laugh and talk to people.
Just you know, even with peoplein church that I've grew up
around my whole life, I neverwould.
I just was always quiet.
And I still kind of am to asense, just because I don't
know.
I just kind of grew into thatspace, I guess.

(39:25):
But um, I kind of felt when itleft because the weight, the
heaviness was no longer there.

SPEAKER_02 (39:31):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (39:31):
And now it's just a different heaviness.

SPEAKER_02 (39:33):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (39:34):
You know.

SPEAKER_03 (39:35):
What's the difference?
What's the heaviness?

SPEAKER_05 (39:37):
I think it's just God's heaviness and his
presence.
Yeah.
Um, it is weighty.
It is, it is, it definitely is.
Sometimes I feel it in service,and I'm like, man, this is
heavy.
Um, and it's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 (39:50):
That I was gonna say, that's so beautiful.
It is.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (39:53):
Because growing up in life, I never thought that I
would be in this space that I'min now.

SPEAKER_03 (39:58):
Well, you're sensitive.
You're sensitive.
I am, I think a little toosensitive.
I'm just kidding.
No, um it's just it's a gift,really.

SPEAKER_05 (40:06):
Yeah, it's I promise you.
I think just being through thethings I've been through, just
having that sensitive now andfeeling it's making grateful.
It does, it really does.
Um, it's tremendously helped myfaith and my wife's faith,
especially you know, the yearnot having a job or house of
your own.

SPEAKER_02 (40:24):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (40:25):
It really puts a test on you and a strain on you,
you know.
It's just when's a house coming?
When's a job coming?
It's like I never knew when.
Just trying to trust in God thatit was coming and putting that
faith to the test.

SPEAKER_03 (40:40):
So, what did you learn about him in that?
Man, sorry, I I used to have abox of Kleenex here.
I actually, for the audience,I'm gonna just go get the
Kleenex really quick.
Wait, I'll be right back.

SPEAKER_04 (40:53):
Okay.

SPEAKER_03 (40:58):
I brought it for that reason.
Thank you.
I just wanted to say it's abeautiful thing to see a man be
able to shed tears openly andhonestly because I think it
requires great strength to beable to do that.

(41:18):
Anyone can be macho and acttough, but um it it takes it
takes a lot of strength to justbe vulnerable, and I think it's
beautiful.

SPEAKER_05 (41:28):
Thank you.
Um, the question was what wasthe question?
Yeah, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_03 (41:34):
Um, I don't remember.

SPEAKER_05 (41:36):
Oh, but that's what I learned from yes.

SPEAKER_03 (41:39):
What did you learn um that year you didn't have a
job or or a house?
What did you learn about Godduring that time?

SPEAKER_05 (41:48):
Man, that year was tough.
Um at first I struggled withhaving faith because the
passings.
Um and I always wanted to havethat faith, you know, the faith
that God was gonna take care ofit.
Um so with the passings wassomething I really lacked was
faith after that.

SPEAKER_03 (42:07):
Um not knowing, not being able to trust that God was
gonna take care of this.

SPEAKER_05 (42:13):
That He was gonna take care of it.
Um I just always rememberpraying, just man, you know,
every prayer I could think of,and just trying to learn to have
that faith.
And then, you know, with thesituation, you know, about the
pornography that came up, andyou know, it's like God was
telling me, like, this is comingout, but to have faith, you

(42:33):
know, and so I felt like thatwhole year was a test of faith
for me.
Um, I learned to grow morefaithful in God throughout that
year.
Um just doing Bible studies.
Um, I would listen to podcasts,just trying to keep them always
at the forefront of my mind,just because I've known what you
put in your ears really plays aneffect on you.

SPEAKER_03 (42:55):
So you were committed to keep going what no
matter what what it looked like,what if he was gonna come
through or not?
You you had determined that Iknew that was the final straw
for me.

SPEAKER_05 (43:09):
I just you know, like I said, I'm grateful too.
My parents had the house and thespace.
Um, you know, but I knew there'stimes that they probably wanted
us out because for us, you know,as a family of us growing, and
my son was about to be born, andhe was born and he was raised a
year there at their house.
Um so you know, it was it was achallenge.
And then not having the job as aman, you know, you lose your job

(43:31):
and your family's depending onyou.
It's like it just it was aweight too at the sense because
I know my children and myfamily's depending on me.
Um but like I said, having mywife in church first really had
that foundation again.
Her standing strong in herfaith, and just now we always
know that God has control of it,you know, regardless of what the

(43:53):
situation may be, the outcome.

SPEAKER_03 (43:56):
So, how did God show up for you?

SPEAKER_05 (43:59):
Um, so after a year past, you know, like I said, I
got the job by a crazy chance.
I'd never heard of the companybefore in my life.
Um, it is pest control, so I dopest control.
Um, and then after that, youknow, my parents are like, hey,
so now you know we're lookingfor a house, you know, and
they're sending me family,sending me zillow ads, selling

(44:19):
me house rentals.
And I'm like, in my head, I'mlike, I need a little bit
because I gotta save becauseit's pretty much spent
everything we had, you know,with unemployment and then just
bills coming.
So anything saved, the money wasgone.
And you know, for a house, youneed down payment, you need
credit, and that's just a rent.
Right.
Um, I didn't have great credit.
I kind of shot it through yearsback.

(44:41):
So just in that year, um, my sonhad his first year's birthday
there too.
Um, this house around the cornerdown the road from my parents
kind of comes up and it'sprivately owned.
And the previously house we usedto have was privately owned as
well.
So I'm like, okay, this is agood opportunity.
And it popped up, and they sentit to me, and I reached out to

(45:02):
the guy.
Um, and I I kind of told him, Iwas like, hey, I don't have the
credit, I just got this job.
And just kind of being in thatvulnerable space, just being
honest, like, I don't have thecredit you want me to have right
now.
Um, and he was a private ownerand he's he was real
understanding, he's a real niceman.
Um and he's all you know, I haveyou guys in my top three.

(45:23):
He's like, but I'm reallygunning for you guys.
And it came up, and before youknow it, he's like, Hey, so it's
yours if you want it.

SPEAKER_01 (45:31):
Wow.

SPEAKER_05 (45:32):
And I mean, we've looked at house after house
after house and nothing.
So it's kind of like the jobsituation, just having that
faith that was like, I know it'scoming, I know it's coming.
And it's kind of sad in thesense because you know, my
children are at that age wherethey understand, you know, hey,
we're we need a house, you know.
So it's like to having to sharethe rooms together in two
bedrooms with five people at thetime, it's kind of it's kind of

(45:55):
tough.

SPEAKER_02 (45:56):
Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_05 (45:57):
Um, but like I said, very grateful for my parents to
have that open space and youknow, accepting us there for a
whole year.
I mean, I'm sure any parentwould do it, but it's just the
fact that you kind of feel Ikind of felt like I was letting
my parents down and my wife andkids.

SPEAKER_03 (46:14):
It's hard on a man when they can't provide.
But but God was wanting to showyou that he would be your
provider.

SPEAKER_05 (46:22):
Yes, definitely.
Because that year was just thatwas the year for me.

SPEAKER_03 (46:26):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (46:27):
If I could say any other year, that was the year
for me.

SPEAKER_03 (46:30):
Um because you could that that could have been the
thing that would have sent youdown the road.
Yes, definitely.
And more anger and morebitterness.
Yes.
Had you know, you would have hadso many reasons to blame God
again for losing your job andnot having all of that, you
know.
But praise God that youresponded to all of that in the

(46:52):
right way.

SPEAKER_05 (46:53):
Yeah, because I did, and that was one thing too in my
mind before I did.
I was like, this can go one oftwo ways.
Yeah, it can hit up real bad, orit can come out great.

SPEAKER_03 (47:04):
Yeah.
So that was you're already andwilling to take that risk.

SPEAKER_05 (47:08):
Yeah.
And I was just my family was inchurch.
My family's been in church thewhole time I was backslidden.
Um, my wife came into church andshe brought me to church again.
Um, so that was the leaf for me.
And then having kids, it's it'sdifferent, you know.
You kind of get in that spacewhere you're like, these kids
look up to you.

SPEAKER_03 (47:29):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (47:29):
So that helped me out a lot too.

SPEAKER_03 (47:32):
Yeah.
To to have something to live forto be a good example.
Yes.
I I don't know, to be honestwith you, I don't know that
everyone has that desire to bethat for their kids.
So I I'm glad you do.
Thank you.
I mean, probably the people thatI talk to here do, but um I feel

(47:55):
like in general, the world isjust so selfish overall that
they're not stopping to thinkabout what are my kids gonna see
when they look up at me?
You know?
Um so coming back to church, wasit different for you than what
you thought it was gonna be inyour mind?
Did people treat you different?

(48:16):
Was it easier than what youthought it would be?
Were people nicer than youthought they would be?

SPEAKER_05 (48:21):
Honestly, when I came back, I kind of did feel a
little hesitant just becausethey've known me my whole life.
Um it was easy, I would say, um,because they're all so
welcoming.

SPEAKER_04 (48:35):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (48:36):
Um, for me, I did have a little, I wouldn't say
like shame or guilt, but I guessI could kind of say that because
I still kind of was like, man,I'm the backslider coming back
to church, you know.
So you kind of have that in yourhead still a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 (48:48):
That people are gonna judge you.

SPEAKER_05 (48:50):
Yeah, so I walked around with that for a little
bit.
I'm not gonna lie, I was still alittle shameful.
But did they they didn't, no,they didn't.
It just was in my head that I'mlike, man, I was gone.
You know, I was gone for thislong and now I'm back, but it's
still in your head, you know,like you left.

SPEAKER_03 (49:06):
Right.
You know, but I think that's thebridge that a lot of backsliders
have to cross coming back, isthat they feel like uh, you
know, oh, they're gonna judge mewhen I come and they're gonna be
looking at me funny and they'regonna be thinking that well,
where have you been or what haveyou been doing?

SPEAKER_06 (49:23):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (49:24):
But that's why I'm asking because I I think it it's
so different than that when youfinally walk in the door.

SPEAKER_05 (49:31):
Yeah, and I I think I struggle with that a little
bit to shame.
Um, you know, when I came backto church, I just like I said, I
was in my own headspace aboutit.
So it did took a little bit oftime for me to get comfortable
again.
Um, just because I was dealingwith myself.

SPEAKER_03 (49:45):
Yeah.
You know, it's it's that's sucha good that's a good line.
I'm dealing with myself.

SPEAKER_05 (49:50):
Yeah, I was just dealing with myself and just
praying about things that I wasGod take the rest of the shame
away that's in my head that Iknow you don't put there, but
it's in my head because of thethings that I've done that I
held on to, you know.
So it was welcoming, it was verywelcoming.
You know, it was good to seeeverybody again, see people that
left.
Um and it was different becauseI came back and pastors, bishop

(50:13):
changed.
Um, so it was different.
Um, but like I said, it ashaving was a youth pastor to a
pastor now, it's pretty coolbecause I can say he's known me
my whole life, my bishop hastoo.

SPEAKER_02 (50:24):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (50:24):
But it's it's incredible.

SPEAKER_03 (50:26):
Yeah.
I know I think we have the best.

SPEAKER_05 (50:29):
We do, we definitely do.

SPEAKER_03 (50:30):
I'm I'm prejudiced though.
I'm biased.

SPEAKER_05 (50:33):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (50:34):
Yeah.
Um, so what what's the lastthree years been like for you?

SPEAKER_05 (50:41):
Oh, it's been it's been incredible.
Um, as you know, we've hadrevival.
Um, just that alone was a bigdifference for me.

SPEAKER_03 (50:49):
Uh what changed what what happened for you?

SPEAKER_05 (50:52):
I think just being to get deeper.
Um growing up, I never did that.
There to be, you know, we'd haverevival at youth, and we'd have
services we go to as youth, andI never went deeper into God.
Um deeper meaning.
I think I just made a prayerwith my prayer walk and just
studying and just yearning forthat, you know, just to be in

(51:15):
that space again.

SPEAKER_02 (51:16):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (51:16):
And in the space I've never been in, obviously.
Um it was awesome.
I mean, uh sometimes I can't putit into words, but I think to
sum it up, it's just it's beenlife-changing.

SPEAKER_06 (51:29):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (51:29):
Um because now that I'm older, I understand things
more that I wish I would haveknown when I was younger.

SPEAKER_02 (51:35):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (51:35):
And that's not towards anybody, but that's just
towards me, myself.
Like I wish I would have knownall these things.

SPEAKER_02 (51:42):
Yeah, me too.

SPEAKER_05 (51:43):
But I didn't fully learn growing up, you know.
And I try to instill it on mykids a lot now because I see all
the things that I missed out onthat I didn't understand, you
know, and I want to have thatwelcoming space for them.

SPEAKER_02 (51:54):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (51:55):
So know that, hey, it's okay to come to me if you
have a problem.

SPEAKER_02 (51:58):
Right.

SPEAKER_05 (51:59):
Like, I'm not gonna judge you, but come to your dad
or your mom, like, hey, let mehelp you, let me help you do
this, you know?
Yeah.
So I think just that, and just,you know, me and my wife still
doing Bible studies with pastor.
Um, it's been awesome.
Um, because we're doing searchfor truth, and there's a lot of
stuff in there that you don'tthink about and you do it.

(52:21):
And I'm like, man, I grew up,I've grown up in church my whole
life, you know, prior to thebacksliding that I never even
knew of.

SPEAKER_02 (52:28):
Right.

SPEAKER_05 (52:29):
And, you know, so it's been incredible in that
sense.
And just the revivals ingeneral, just seeing the people
come in, um and just seeingeverybody that's there now and
the newcomers.
Um, it's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 (52:41):
Yeah, there was such a a depth and I think um a
palatable hunger and expectationfor God to show up during the
revival.
I mean, I I think I think welook for that at church.
We go to church on Sundays andWednesdays, and and you know, we

(53:02):
go there to worship the Lord andhear a word, you know, from the
word of God.
And but yeah, that revival, itit um we spent like three months
for anyone listening, you know,with this one evangelist and and
this revival for it feels likeit was three months, it might
have been less, but um there wassuch a shift.

(53:25):
It was there was suchexpectancy, I think.
Yeah.
Everyone came with thisexpectancy to see what God was
gonna do next, what God wasgonna say next, because there
was, you know, the word of Godalways speaks.
Um but there was just such apresence of God that that was

(53:48):
really lives were changed forsure, you know, and and I think
it's difficult to explain forsomeone that hasn't been in the
presence of God like that,because the Bible is always
gonna be the Bible, it it doesits job, it's anointed, it's
gonna go forth and not returnvoid.

(54:10):
Yes.
But when you add the word of Godto the presence of God, um it's
an experience in in a way thatit is indescribable, I think.

SPEAKER_05 (54:24):
It is, it definitely is.

SPEAKER_03 (54:26):
It's something, you know, I always I tell people I,
you know, I think, gosh, youhave got to experience a
Pentecostal church.
You know, for some people theythink it's crazy, for other
people they love it, but it isan experience, you know, and I
think that when people do come,they feel they feel that there

(54:49):
is something there.
The Lord is there, you know.
Not that he's not at otherplaces because I've been to lots
of other places and and the Lordis there, he's gonna be wherever
his word is because it's hisword.
But yeah, the revival was umwonderful.

SPEAKER_05 (55:09):
It was.
And like I said, I think thegrowing up I never went.
I'd go to events like that, butyou know, when we had almost a
weak revival, I never picturedmyself being in a weak revival
like that and just wanting togo.
Wanting to go, yes, anticipatinglike, hey, we're going, like,
let's do this, and especiallydoing it with your family.

SPEAKER_02 (55:29):
Right.

SPEAKER_05 (55:29):
You know, having a wife that's in the same page,
your kids are on the same page,it's it's an experience for
sure.

SPEAKER_02 (55:35):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (55:36):
And it's it's life-changing.
Um, my daughter actually got theHoly Ghost at the first revival
service.

SPEAKER_03 (55:40):
So Oh my goodness, wow.

SPEAKER_05 (55:43):
She was seven and she got it.

SPEAKER_03 (55:45):
Uh how beautiful.
For I just think when childrenget it the Lord like that so
early in life, what what abeautiful thing.

SPEAKER_05 (55:53):
Yeah, it definitely is.

SPEAKER_03 (55:54):
Yeah.
So being that you are sensitiveon a different level than the
average person, I'm gonna say.
Um, what did you feel from theLord during that revival?

SPEAKER_05 (56:10):
I felt some heaviness for sure in there.

SPEAKER_03 (56:13):
Um so I I just gonna interject.
Um, someone told me, maybe morethan one person told me that the
heaviness is the glory of God.
The weightiness is the glory ofGod.
And I never knew that.

SPEAKER_05 (56:31):
I didn't know that either.

SPEAKER_03 (56:32):
Right.
That's why I'm sharing it withyou because you've said that a
couple of times that it washeavy.
Um, but it wasn't heavy,burdensome, heavy.
It was it was weighty, like likeyou just sort of want to bow
under it.
Yes.
Like and just be in hispresence.

SPEAKER_05 (56:50):
Yeah, and I always a lot of times I pray, I pray to
feel that way in glory.
So I guess I kind of feel it.
Now that you say that, I guess Ifeel a lot more than I think I
do.
Because there's times where I'lljust break down in the pew or
standing there singing the song,and I'm like, man, this is this
is heavy.
Yeah, but it's a good heavy,like you said, it's and it's a

(57:11):
heavy that I never reallyexperienced before.

SPEAKER_02 (57:13):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (57:13):
Before backsliding.
So yeah.
To feel that now, it's it'spretty incredible.

SPEAKER_03 (57:18):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I think, you know, Lewis,I I particularly um I feel that
sensitivity when people aresensitive in their nature, that
that's not by accident.
Uh, you know, I I feel like umGod works through our senses.

(57:42):
This the spirit realm is felt,it's it's known, it's um, you
know, God works through oursenses.
So the more sensitive we are inour physical sensitive
sensitivities, um, the morespiritual sensitivity we're
going to have.

(58:03):
And sometimes there's dominant,um, there's dominant nature in
our senses, but I think thatthat's not by mistake.
And I feel like the Lord isgonna further grow you and to
understand that because whatevergifts he's placed in you, you
know, there's a little inklingof it in your sensitivity level.

SPEAKER_05 (58:25):
I I think so.
Um because there's times I'llpray for people that are
newcomers of the church, and Ifeel a heaviness when I pray for
them.
And I don't know if it's just mejust being sensitive, uh, but
I'll feel like just a heavinesswhen I pray for them.
Like, I guess in a way, becauseI've been feel like I've been in
some of their situations, Iguess.

SPEAKER_03 (58:46):
So it kind of so what you're saying is you can
feel what they're feeling.

SPEAKER_05 (58:50):
I don't know for sure.
Well, you sense that.
But I sense a heaviness when I'mpraying for them.
And sometimes I break down andI'm crying for them, praying for
them.

SPEAKER_03 (58:58):
Like you're interceding for them.

SPEAKER_05 (59:01):
It probably is.
I just and that's just came overthese past couple years, you
know, with the revival and justtrying to grow deeper.

SPEAKER_03 (59:10):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (59:11):
And even sometimes when I'm away from them, I kind
of feel that heaviness.

SPEAKER_03 (59:15):
I feel like the Lord's given you a burden, and
um it sounds to me likeintercession and you know,
something maybe to talk toPastor about.
But um, do you remember whenBrother Logston was there?
He's he stepped behind thecurtain and he said, I just got

(59:38):
really sick to my stomach orsick in my back.
He had a pain in his back orsomething along those lines.
And he said he just got hit withit.
And it was he knew that therewas someone there suffering from
something in their back.
And I I I can't remember theexact way he put it, but I'm

(01:00:00):
saying this to you now becausehe learned that that's how God
shows him what he wants to healin someone else, is we feel it
in ourself so that we know howto pray and what to pray.
And so, you know, I'm kind ofexcited for you to see what God
is growing and developing inyou.

(01:00:22):
But um your sensitivity for sureis very special.
It's it's never, never, ever,ever, ever, ever, ever a curse.
Although when you're a kid, itfeels like that because you
don't know what to do with it.
Everything just feels big.
Um, but personally, this ispersonally in my observation, I

(01:00:45):
feel that it's an indication ofthe prophetic, you know, uh of
how God wants to grow the giftsof the spirit in a person.
Because we all, you know, theBible says that he's given gifts
to all of us, you know.
The gifts are part of the HolyGhost.
It's it's him that works all ofthat in us.

(01:01:07):
And so, anyways, might besomething great for you to delve
into because it's not there byaccident.
Yeah, definitely, you know, andum you have a a beautiful loving
heart, you know, and um agentleness, which is something
special.

(01:01:29):
Gentleness is something special.

SPEAKER_04 (01:01:32):
Yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:33):
Yeah, so that's wonderful.
Um, I know it's hard for I knowas I've interviewed people, um
not everybody knows the words toput to what they feel, you know.
They know what they feel, theyknow how they feel, they know
like what they think, butthey've never like tried to

(01:01:56):
articulate.

SPEAKER_05 (01:01:57):
It's very hard.

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:58):
Yeah, it it is.
I I know.
Um, but you did good.
Thank you.
You did good, and um, you cansee, I can see, you know, what
God is doing in your life, andI'm just really excited for you
and for your family, and andglad that you were willing to
take the step because like Isaid, you could have rejected

(01:02:19):
all of that and chose to stayangry and bitter.

SPEAKER_05 (01:02:23):
Yes, and I remember Pastor, when I met with Pastor,
he said the same thing thatyou're saying.
Um, you know, a lot of men don'twon't come up to this point and
they'll just lose everything.
Yeah, they won't stand and takethat route.
And I don't say that pridefully.
I just I I took it and I waslike, man, it's it it is, it

(01:02:44):
means a lot because some peopledon't.
Some people don't want to dealwith it, they just would rather
stay in the sin and just well,pride, you know, and it's fear.

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:54):
It's it's easier to be prideful than it is to be
vulnerable.

SPEAKER_05 (01:02:59):
Yes, it is, definitely.

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:00):
So um, but God knew your heart.

SPEAKER_05 (01:03:04):
Yeah, and I think it it's been a long time coming.
Um, I feel like the time thatit's came is kind of crazy being
in the revival we're in, and youknow, having all the new people
come.
You know, I just feel there'ssomething there that I need to
be doing.

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:20):
Yeah.
Um I feel like we're having arevival of men.

SPEAKER_05 (01:03:24):
I think so.

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:24):
And and the gangs have said that before too.
I feel like I I I just it'sreally incredible to sit back
and and see what God is actuallydoing because the men are really
rising up.

SPEAKER_05 (01:03:40):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:41):
More so than what I've seen in recent years.

SPEAKER_05 (01:03:44):
Yes, and I think, you know, if the dads can win, I
think the families will follow.

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:50):
Yeah, yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_05 (01:03:51):
Takes that step.
I mean, kids look up to theirdads.
Yes, they do, you know, and theylook up to their moms too, but
in a sense, their dad issupposed to be strong, bold, and
courageous.
And I think if we can win, youknow, they'll follow after us.
They look up to us, they'regonna want to go the path we're
going, you know.
Um, but same with women, they'rethey're so strong in their faith

(01:04:14):
that they have the same probablystronger faith that some men
have, you know.
It's and it's it's a it's ablessing just to be around that.

SPEAKER_03 (01:04:23):
Yeah.
Well, I'm glad that it's ablessing to you and it doesn't
intimidate you, you know,because that happens too, you
know.
You you embraced it instead ofagain, pride pushed away from
it.
So I usually um end with twoquestions, but for you, I'm

(01:04:45):
gonna change it up.
I've done a lot of thingsdifferent with you than I've
done, you know, in any otherpodcast.
Um, but normally I I ask whoeverI'm interviewing, what would you
say to the backslider that's outthere that hasn't come home yet?
But for you, Lewis, I want toask you, what would you say to

(01:05:06):
the guy or to the man out therewho is angry and bitter because
I think there's a lot of that,and who is prideful and doesn't
want to walk into the church andwho is struggling with feeling
like all their secrets are gonnabe exposed.
What would you say to the guywho is where you've been?

SPEAKER_05 (01:05:29):
Um you know, I never really thought about that
question.
Um I've never asked it before.
I would um, you know, I think itjust being as a man, you know,
you see like the pride that youdeal with, and you know, there's
such a humbleness when you cancome before God and just

(01:05:50):
surrender it all.
Um because you know, I taught aBible study recently, you know,
telling men uh and it kind ofhit home, you know, on David.
Um you can feel that pain, youknow, and you're you're praying
and you're crying, and uh youknow, it was a scripture that
said, you know, I don't havethis exactly down, but you know,

(01:06:13):
a man will get up and do what hewants to do if he wants to do
it.
So I say to the man, if youknow, you want to get up and you
want to go do these things, youwant to fish, golf, shoot, hike,
whatever it is you want to do,try giving that to God.
Um your family depends on it,really.
Your wife and your children,they look up to you, but they're

(01:06:34):
not gonna see you any weaker nomatter what it is that you've
done.
You know they're gonna look atyou and think, man, my dad went
through that and he came outconquering.

SPEAKER_02 (01:06:46):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (01:06:47):
Um and I just say just try to give it your all to
God.

SPEAKER_02 (01:06:51):
I mean He will repay you.

SPEAKER_05 (01:06:53):
He will.
Yeah, be obedient to Him and youknow, you be under submission to
your pastor, whoever your pastoris, and I think that you know,
God will really help youovercome whatever it is that
you're dealing with.

SPEAKER_03 (01:07:06):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Come home.
What would you say to theparent, to the spouse?
Like your your wife would for along time without you.

SPEAKER_05 (01:07:16):
I know a lot of people say never stop, and
that's really good.
But also feel just people ingeneral, um reaching out to
people.
Um whether it's a spouse,whether it's a friend, family
member.
Because you never know when thattext comes through that says,
Hey, I'm praying for you.
Or I'm thinking of you, hopeyou're doing okay.

(01:07:39):
You never know when that textgoes through or that phone call
it's gonna make a difference intheir life because they could be
in a situation.
Um and just keep praying,praying and believing God's
gonna do it.
Um, like I said, I would justcontinue to keep on him and just

(01:08:01):
a way to let him know you'rethere.
Because I think at the end ofthe day, you know, knowing
somebody's in your cornerbacking you regardless whatever
you're going through is a bighelp.

SPEAKER_02 (01:08:11):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (01:08:12):
Because you know that at least one person
believes that I can do this,even though there may be
multiple.
But there's that one personthat's still hounding me, hey, I
like to see you in church again,or hey, we're having service,
you know, or hey, I'm keepingyou in prayer.
Or we can do a Bible study, youknow, just whatever it is, just
reaching out to them andencouraging them.

SPEAKER_02 (01:08:31):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (01:08:31):
I feel really make a difference in a lot of lives.
Um I've had people reach out tome, and you know it does make a
difference because you know, nomatter you know what you're
going through, they may notknow, but they care for you.
And I think just having thatcare and compassion for people
really shows and helps helpspeople.

SPEAKER_03 (01:08:54):
Yeah, it's so true.
When someone tells me, you know,randomly will send me a text,
hey, thinking about you, prayingfor you.
I'm so grateful because Ibelieve they're really praying
for me and I need prayer.
Yes.
I mean, we all we all do, butman, I just I'm so grateful when

(01:09:15):
I know that someone's prayingfor me because you know, I I
think no matter how much we loveGod and how committed we are to
walking with Him and beingfaithful, life is still life.
And there's you know, it itstill gets burdensome, it gets
wearisome, it gets um stressful.

(01:09:38):
I know, like I just walkedthrough a whole season.
It was a short season,thankfully, but but I walked
through a season where I wasbeing hit with something that I
know that I know that I know.
Nope, God's always taking careof this.
This is not something that Ineed to even worry about.
God's always provided in thisway.

(01:10:01):
But man, I I was like, well,Lord, I, you know, I I was
thinking about all kinds ofstuff, just saying, Lord, are
you moving me in a direction?
Am I supposed to be doing this?
Am I, you know, because somethings were changing for me.
And but I just kept hearing theLord, you know, nope, just stay

(01:10:21):
the course, stay the course,stay the course.
And, you know, we need to beencouraged because it doesn't
matter.
We show up to church, we, youknow, I do a podcast every week.
Man, we're just people trying tomake it every day.
And we, you know, I have faithin God, but we still get

(01:10:45):
attacked by the enemy.
We still go through lifesituations that deplete us, you
know.
My faith is in God, that doesn'tchange, but but the weariness, I
guess, of of circumstances doesyou.
Yeah, it just it just does.

(01:11:05):
Um has nothing to do with this,you know.
And so when someone does reachout and say, Hey, you know,
you've been on my heart, I'mpraying for you.
I know that God has got someoneinterceding for me, and it means
so much.
And I I rest a little easierthinking, God, thank you.

(01:11:26):
Because you know, sometimes wecan't pray the prayers for
ourselves as someone else canpray for us when we're in it.
So that's good.
And I don't do that enough.
I need to do that more.
I do pray for people a lot, Ijust don't usually take the time
to tell them.
Yeah.
And I bet that that would helpif I think it does.

SPEAKER_05 (01:11:47):
Um, like I said, it's just to know that
somebody's backing you.
Yeah.
I mean, yeah, we pray and I dothe same thing.
Sometimes I don't reach out topeople, but there's times where
I do, and they're like, hey, Iappreciate it, or you really
came in when I didn't think likesomebody was there for me, you
know.
So I think reaching out topeople, regardless, like I said,

(01:12:07):
if it's a spouse, friend,relative, anything.
Somebody you know just I mean,it's a simple text.
Yeah.
Simple call.
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (01:12:17):
And it doesn't take that long.
It doesn't.
Yeah.
Anything else you wanna add?
Um no, not that I can think of.
Um well, I'm I'm really I'mhappy that you came.
And um, you know, I think it'sgonna bless a lot of people that

(01:12:40):
like I said, we see people inchurch all the time.
We don't really get to knowthem.
So thank you for sharing yourtestimony.
Thank you for having thispodcast.

SPEAKER_05 (01:12:49):
It's it's blessings just to hear other stories too,
because you know you're notalone, you weren't alone.
Yeah, people were going throughit, and I think it does help a
lot of people.
Yeah, just to see the reach.

SPEAKER_03 (01:13:00):
And well, and I am so blessed by seeing what God is
doing in people, you know,because he is the redeemer, and
yes, and I'm excited about whathe's gonna do in you, and you
know, where whatever the desiresof your heart are in him.
So it's good.
Okay, Lewis.
Thanks for being here.

(01:13:21):
And for anyone out there, thankyou for watching.
If you know a backslider, aprodigal, if you could just
share our channel with us,that'd be great.
Um, we have lots of differenttestimonies from various walks
of life.
And um, we just want to, we justwant someone to know they're not
alone and God is waiting.
So thank you for being here.

(01:13:42):
Bye.

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:43):
We are so glad you joined us.
If you have a story ofredemption or have worn the
label of a backslider, we wouldlove to hear from you.
If you'd like to support ourministry, your donation will be
tax deductible.
Visit our website at theredeemedbackslider.org.
We hope you will tune in for ournext episode.