August 1, 2025 • 38 mins
In this episode, host, deacon Tim Hopper (Shiloh OPC, Raleigh, NC) is joined by Becky Haney, a member of New Hope OPC in Bridgeton, New Jersey, to share her experience following the sudden passing of her husband Dave Haney—a man well-known and loved by many in the OPC—who died unexpectedly at age 56 in 2019.
Caring for widows lies close to the heart of diaconal work. Scripture is clear that God’s people are to support widows in their time of need. Yet many struggle to know how best to minister to them in their new chapter of life. This important conversation hopes to equip deacons and other church members to care more effectively by listening well, being patient and allowing a "wide berth" following this life-altering experience.
Becky's openness offers valuable insight and practical wisdom to help deacons, pastors, and church members care for widows with greater empathy and understanding.
Referenced in this episode:
- If I Should Die (produced by David Haney)
- What Grieving People Wish You Knew about What Really Helps (and What Really Hurts): (And How to Avoid Being That Person Who Hurts Instead of Helps) by Nancy Guthrie
- How Deacons Can Help: A Widow’s Advice
- Becky's Suggested Reading List
You can find all of our episodes at thereformeddeacon.org. Make sure to follow us on your favorite podcast player, so you don't miss an episode. Follow us on Facebook and Instagram for giveaways and more information. Find other resources on OPCCDM.org. Make sure to send us some feedback on your podcast player or ask a diaconal question by going to OPCCDM.org.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
And I remember one time having a conversation with
him.
I don't remember thecircumstances, but I remember
what he said.
He said when people aregrieving, you need to give them
a wide berth.
Everybody responds differentlyand, as I have found out, it's a
long, long process.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Welcome to the Reformed Deacon, a casual
conversation with topicsspecifically designed to help
local Reformed deacons.
There are nearly a thousanddeacons in the OPC alone, so
let's take this opportunity tolearn from and encourage one
another.
We're so glad you could join us.
Let's jump into our nextepisode.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Hello, my name is Tim Hopper.
I'm a deacon at Shiloh OPC inRaleigh, north Carolina, and a
member of the Committee onDiaconal Ministries.
Today on the podcast, we'retalking about an aspect that's
close to the heart of diaconalwork caring for widows.
Scripture is clear God's peopleare to look after the widow.
To help us explore this topic,I'm joined by Becky Haney, a
(00:57):
member of New Hope OPC inBridgeton, new Jersey.
Becky's husband, some may know,dave Haney, served as the
director of finance for the OPCfor nearly 36 years before his
sudden passing in August of 2019.
Dave was known and loved bypastors, elders, deacons and
church members across thedenomination for his wisdom,
discernment and deep care ofothers.
(01:18):
He was also a valued member ofthe Committee on Diaconal
Ministries, where he played akey role in establishing the now
very active OPC DisasterResponse, a ministry that has
brought help and hope in Christto many.
In the wake of disaster, daveand Becky have three adult
children and eight grandchildren.
Becky has graciously agreed toshare some of her personal
(01:39):
experience since Dave's passingto give deacons, pastors, elders
and church members a betterunderstanding as they come
alongside widows with compassionand care.
While every widow's experienceis unique, we thought it would
be helpful to begin with onewidow's perspective and plan to
explore this topic in furtherepisodes.
Becky, thank you for joining ustoday.
Would you mind starting bytelling us a bit about your
(02:00):
family and your late husband,dave?
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Sure, and first off, I love to hear his name.
That's the first thing I cantell you that any widow is going
to want to hear is theirhusband's name, as many times as
you want to say it.
As you mentioned, Dave workedfor the Orthodox Presbyterian
Church and one of his hats thathe wore was he managed the loan
fund which helps churches eitherbuy a building, renovate a
(02:25):
building.
So he traveled a lot.
For that he had to make sitevisits, and on this particular
occasion he was in New Berlin,Wisconsin.
They were working on a I thinkit was a renovation to their
property, and so he was outthere for the weekend.
He had met with them onSaturday night and he was
supposed to also then be atchurch with them on Sunday
morning, and he had gone to thehotel fitness center in the
(02:53):
morning and, apparently in theprocess of working out, had a
massive heart attack.
We don't know how long he wasdown, but it became clear that
his brain had been not receivingoxygen for a long time, so he
was transported to a hospital inWisconsin.
I was prepping at home to go tochurch and I got a call First.
The phone rang.
I didn't recognize the numberand so I didn't answer it.
But then it rang again and itseemed odd on a Sunday morning
(03:13):
and it was the hospital callingme.
So I was quickly on a plane, Iwas getting in touch with my
kids and they also all got onplanes to come, because we were
told he was very ill.
They didn't really specify, sowe were all there together and
after several days it becameclear that he had no brain
activity and so we had to removethe ventilator.
So Friday he died in theevening.
(03:37):
And in the midst of all of thiswe had a couple of other side
notes.
My oldest daughter, Lauren, waspregnant and due with a baby in
a couple of weeks.
She had decided to make thetrip because she was coming to a
hospital and, in the Lord'sProvidence, the trauma caused
her labor to come on.
So she had her fourth baby twodays before her dad died in the
(03:58):
same hospital.
So that added to thedisorientation.
And then, several weeks later,as we were prepping for the
service for Dave back on theEast Coast, my father had a
brain bleed and he was in thehospital a couple of days before
he passed away.
I could not go to be with himbecause we were shortly having
Dave's memorial service.
(04:19):
So in a word, it was anightmare and very disorienting.
Dave was only 56.
He had no history of heartdisease in the family.
But another plug for deaconsjust as men, take care of your
health, get yourself checked out.
I know you guys don't like togo to the doctor, but go and get
checkups, but anyway, yes itwas.
I think my friend heard me manytimes say you know it used to
(04:42):
be I'd wake up from a nightmare.
Now I wake up to the nightmare.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Yeah, that's so hard.
Were there particular things orpeople or way people interacted
with you in the early days thatwere particularly helpful or
comfort to you?
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Well, since we were all in Wisconsin, we flew back
to California, where all my kidslived at the time, and we
actually even buried Dave inCalifornia because we had been
planning to move there.
So, of course, being alltogether was crucial.
But in addition to that, evenwhile we were in Wisconsin, the
(05:18):
people at home were in touchwith me.
I know Dave's got a car at theairport.
You drove.
You know it was Sunday morning.
I couldn't get a ride to theairport, so I just drove myself
and parked People just give usthe information to get your cars
.
And then when I came home,friends had straightened up the
house and filled therefrigerator with groceries and
flowers and I'm bringing youdinner tomorrow.
(05:39):
And you know, they just did it.
They didn't ask, they just didit.
I wouldn't have been able tosay what I needed.
I was in such a fog and my kidshad the same thing.
They had somebody come to pickus up at the airport and he said
I feel like I'm coming to pickup soldiers coming back from a
war and it's like, yeah, you hitthe nail on the head.
That's how we feel, and thefact that he said that and
(06:01):
acknowledged just the traumathat we went through and they
came again home to meals andhelp.
So those first few days ofpeople just doing and not asking
was incredibly helpful.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
It seems like that's a common theme, probably
especially with widows, of justfeeling paralyzed and not
knowing what to do.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
I also said to my friend often I felt like I was
underwater, like everything wasmuffled, like everything was
moving slowly and heartbreak isreal.
Your heart hurts, you feelnauseous, you can't imagine that
you need to get up every daystill.
So you do need people to justdo and not ask, the first few
(06:43):
days at least.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
That's helpful If you're able to share any things
that were not helpful thathappened that you would
encourage folks not to do.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Yeah, this is challenging because I wouldn't
say don't do this.
But this surprised me howdifficult it was to receive
sympathy cards, because I was insuch disbelief that I was in
this position to receive them.
I had spent years buying cardsfor other people and then I know
(07:13):
people meant well, but theywould say things like praise the
Lord, that he's in heaven, orgive me a scripture verse.
And again I wouldn't say don'tdo that.
But I will tell you for me Ilooked at those very casually
and set them aside, and itwasn't until a few months later
that I really could read themand get the comfort from them.
So in some ways I would saydon't feel like you need to find
(07:36):
words to put in the card, justsay I'm so, so sorry, and that's
all we really need to know.
In those first few days.
It's almost not comforting orfor me it wasn't to have some of
those things said to me, and soit almost made it worse For me
(08:07):
too.
I think emails were good wherepeople had a specific thing they
wanted to say a memory of Daveor something like that.
That was really helpful.
But, like I said, I wouldn'ttell people not to send cards
because then I think you'd alsofeel like nobody's thinking of
you.
But just know that you don'thave to come up with words.
You just have to say we'rethinking of you or I'm so sorry.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
I think a corollary to that is to remember that the
grieving goes on.
Once the funeral's done and theflowers stop showing up and the
visitors stop coming, thegrieving continues.
And to be thinking out intothat longer term.
What's it like four months fromnow when people aren't sending
cards?
Then how can you be anencouragement?
Speaker 1 (08:50):
I'll tell you, though .
The amazing thing is, we haveone woman in our church.
She's known for sending cards.
She sent me a card every weekfor, I think, two months, and
that was really something.
So, yeah, mixed message there,but I know I've always had a
challenge of what do I say inthe card?
Just, we're so sorry.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Were there any particularly notable maybe not
right in the early days, but asyour grieving continued any
particularly notable books orsermons or conversations that
stick out to you?
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Yeah, again, I had a lot of people even send me some
books that had been helpful tothem and I couldn't open them.
I just couldn't believe thiswas my life.
But a couple months later I hadbeen recommended a book by
Jerry Stitzer called A GraceDisguised, and it was about a
man who had lost his mother, hiswife and a young daughter in an
(09:43):
accident.
Lost his mother, his wife and ayoung daughter in an accident,
and I suddenly discovered howdesperately I wanted to hear the
words of somebody whounderstood what I was going
through.
And so that book was a reallifeline and also kind of like
it pointed me to what was next,what I needed to do.
Next I needed to find peoplewho were experiencing what I was
.
So I also found a woman whosehusband had died in a hiking
(10:08):
accident the month before Dave.
So we were literally exactly atthe same point, and she wrote a
book called Beyond the Darkness, which was probably my second
most helpful book in thosemoments.
And then I've always loved CSLewis, we always loved CS Lewis,
but it was fascinating to readhis book A Grief Observed and to
find I had something in commonwith this highly intelligent
(10:31):
intellectual.
We went through the sameemotion of just floundering and
we can't believe what our lifehas become.
And then there was a lot ofpraise music.
That was incredibly helpful.
I think that's different foreverybody.
I know my mother-in-law.
When she lost her husband,hymns were such a comfort to her
, but there's no question thatbooks and sermons.
(10:54):
There was a church in Michigandoing a series on Job and so I
was able, with the beauty of theinternet, to listen to their
sermons while I would go onwalks.
There's a lot out there if youlook for it.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
That's very good.
I know you had maybe even otherbook recommendations, but one
that we've recently talked aboutin the CDM is Nancy Guthrie's
book what Grieving People WishPeople Knew, or something to
that effect.
Is that one you've read?
Speaker 1 (11:17):
I have read a lot of Nancy Guthrie.
I haven't read that one.
I do have a devotional I'mcurrently using called Book of
Hope, which is excellent.
And then I forgot to mentionone of the women in the church
had given me a Spurgeons BesidesStill Waters devotional.
It was updated by Roy Clark butagain, yeah, you need to hear
(11:37):
God's truth all day long.
So I had devotions for themorning, devotions at night and
all about grief because that wasI was all consumed by it.
So everything I read wasrelative to that.
But yes, nancy Guthrie is anexcellent author.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Are you able to talk about some of the harder parts
of widowhood that people mightnot see or understand if they
haven't experienced this type ofloss?
Speaker 1 (12:00):
As I said about the cards, I think we all feel badly
that we don't know what to sayto somebody, but the truth is
there is nothing to be said inthe first few weeks other than
I'm so sorry.
Nothing can change it, nothingcan make it feel better, nothing
can make it make sense whenyou're a Christian and you have
you know the foundation of yourfaith and you have you know the
(12:21):
foundation of your faith.
I will say, though, that one ofthe hardest questions that
people would ask would be howare you doing no-transcript?
So you're not going to alwayssay I'm doing awful, so you find
a way to say well, I'm okay, oryou know day by day, and it was
(12:44):
hard to see people almost havea little bit of a look of relief
in their eyes Like it's yeah,you're doing better.
I'm glad to hear that that madeit worse, because it was not
true, I was not doing better atall.
So the interaction with peoplewas very, very difficult for a
very long time, because it justseems, again, surreal that life
(13:07):
still goes on when your worldhas imploded.
The challenge I have, too, isthat that goes on for years, and
that's something that nobodycan really do anything about.
You just have to gradually getused to the fact that when you
go into a public situationyou're going to be around
couples all the time and again,that's not anything that people
can change.
(13:28):
I did not experience the well.
Once you're not a coupleanymore, your couple friends
drop you.
I didn't have that.
But again I had a couple timeswhere I had a few people over
and it just didn't feel rightbecause Dave wasn't there to
help me host or whatever.
So I decided I'm not going todo that.
For a long time I tried to kindof just keep doing the same
(13:49):
things I was used to doing, butthen that almost underlined more
that he was gone.
And oddly enough, in God'sprovidence, covid came about six
to seven months after he passedaway.
And that was the best thing forme because I could access all
these online resources but nothave to speak to people in
(14:10):
person.
So I think a lot of people willsay weren't you just so lonely?
But often I was lonelier withpeople because it was a constant
reminder of what I didn't haveanymore.
I know other people feeldifferently.
I know some people are lonelyand just.
My father had a terrible timewithout my mother, and he wanted
(14:33):
to be around people and wantedto go to a grief support group,
you know, but that wasn't for me.
I was more about the books thatI could read on my own.
The lifeline for me, though, wasI had one friend who, after
several months, we were all outfor breakfast and I had kind of
crumbled at breakfast and I knewthey all felt badly for me, but
they didn't know what to do.
(14:54):
But we ended up all going home,and about 20 minutes later I
got a knock at the door andshe's standing at the door and
she said I just couldn't let yougo home, and she sat in my
living room like Job.
She just sat because I and shelistened, and she's been doing
it ever since.
We get together every weekAgain.
Covid was a fascinating thingfor me, because it opened up a
(15:17):
very different world where Icould get together with one
person, and she walked this walkand listened, and I would never
have known the relationship Ihave with her if I hadn't lost
Dave.
So I'm sure that's not why Ilost Dave, but it's a silver
lining.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Sure, absolutely.
You're thinking particularlydeacons to widows, think men
maybe often are going to, ifthey're thinking about it, maybe
be even more afraid to say thewrong thing, which can lead to
an opposite and probably worseproblem of just avoiding the
person when you don't know whatto say.
What counsel would you offer toa deacon in particular who
feels unsure what to say?
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Yeah, well, again, I followed a lot of different
people online and read books andso forth and I, in God's
providence, just read this lastweek.
A guy was saying it is so hardwhen people say, how are you
doing?
And I think that has to be theopener, because it's almost like
saying, hi, how are you?
In general, that's just what wedo to start a conversation with
(16:15):
people.
But I think the answer is thefollow-up question, especially
for a deacon, can be what wasthe hardest thing you had to
deal with this week, becauseyou've now acknowledged that
their life is hard, so we cantell you what was hard and we
don't have to feel like we're adowner because you asked the
(16:37):
question.
So I thought that was brilliantbecause it's true, the only
question you really have is howare you doing?
And so by following up that wayand then, as the people did when
Dave first died, after a coupleof months, occasionally I would
just get somebody who wascoming over anyway for something
.
He'd bring his toolbox and saywhat do you need fixed?
(16:59):
You know?
So I had a front door thatwasn't latching right, just a
couple of things.
They're not a big deal, but thefact that I didn't have to ask,
I didn't have to call somebody,he just came prepared to do it.
I had that happen threeseparate times and it was just.
It was beautiful to watchbecause I didn't feel like it
(17:21):
was inconveniencing him.
He came and he just cameprepared.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
That's great, I know often the experience can be just
being so overwhelmed with howmany things need to be figured
out and all the checklists justkeep growing and growing of what
does life look like at thispoint and how are you figuring
out life insurance and whatbills do we pay that my husband
used to take care of and allthese things.
And helping keep things offthat list I know can be such an
(17:47):
encouragement.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
Yeah, which actually brings me to a follow-up, which
is it can be too open-ended tosay let me know if I can help,
to where it just becomes.
You don't even know where tostart.
I think this is true not justwith widows, but I think young
parents hear this often Let meknow how I can help.
We're like, well, the list isvery long, but what can you
actually ask for?
Are there better ways to try tofind out besides just showing
(18:12):
up and doing something?
Are there other ways to try?
to find out how to help.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Well, that was another thing that I kind of
learned through the process isI'm already naturally
independent and don't like toask for help.
And then Dave was an elder, soI also had an understanding of
how often church officers haveto be out of the home doing
things for other people.
So I really really didn't liketo ask for help.
But it got me thinking what ifdeacons and I don't know how you
(18:39):
would do this graciously, buthad some sort of a checklist
that just said do you need helpwith any of these things?
So that and I can even help youthink of those?
Do you need help movingsomething heavy?
Do you need help hangingsomething on the wall?
Do you need help finding atrustworthy repairman?
Like that's hard too.
(19:05):
If your husband handled all therepair work and you have an
appliance, go.
Do you know who to call?
Do you need help with yourtaxes or finances?
Do you need somewhere to go ona holiday?
Do you need a ride to theairport?
Like I got about 15 things on alist here.
I feel like for me that wouldhave been really neat to receive
this piece of paper that saidlet us know, here's things we
can do for you.
Let us know and then we'll giveyou a call.
(19:28):
That way, in some ways, I think, it gives the deacons a chance
to figure out who might beavailable.
It gives the widow the chanceto say, oh yeah, I do.
I would love for somebody tohang that for me.
And again, it was sochallenging for me to ask for
help.
But if it was proactive, thatway, with a specific list, not
(19:49):
what can we do, but here aresome ideas.
Do you need any of these things?
We can add that to the booklist at the end if we want.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
I think that would be great to share.
That's a very good idea, if wewant.
I think that would be great toshare.
That's a very good idea.
What was the experience ofhandling such a terrible grief
with adult children?
That's going to make this adifferent circumstance than
someone who has children at homeor various things.
How was walking alongside themthrough this and what did you
learn through that?
Speaker 1 (20:13):
I would have to say in retrospect I'm really
disappointed with myself, butalso I felt I had nothing to
give my adult children.
I was so blindsided and sooverwhelmed.
And my kids are very capablekids.
As we mentioned, my onedaughter had her fourth child in
the hospital.
She had three other children athome and she had an infant and
(20:37):
we were all there together a lot.
God was so gracious to usbecause I had no strength for my
children and I don't know howwomen who have to raise young
children do it, but they hadgood.
I just remember family comingand bringing food and then just
(21:01):
sitting.
There was nothing to say, Justcame and sat.
And how do people do thiswithout a Christian community?
The church is a beautiful,beautiful thing in this.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
Yes, amen, it's hard to fathom.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
It's way worse than you think.
You think it's going to beterrible and it's so far beyond
that it's in some waysindescribable.
And a lot of that is becauselife goes on.
I read a quote one time.
It's like I'm already deadinside and yet I'm in the worst
kind of pain.
All of those things at once,and you still need to take care
of your house and buy groceriesand pay bills, and it doesn't
(21:39):
seem like there's any reason to.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
I've heard multiple times and this may or may not
have been your experience, butthat Sundays for Christians
who've lost a spouse or a childcan be one of the hardest days.
Even though you then get to bewith your Christian family and
be under the means of grace,among other things, you are
there without your husband, whois an elder and involved in that
church.
(22:02):
What are the challenges and theblessings there, and are there
particular ways the deacons can,or maybe even the deacon's wife
and family, support you inbeing at church on a Sunday?
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Yeah, I went back to church right away because it
just didn't seem to make senseto sit at home.
I'd been at home all weekanyway, but I will say I did not
enjoy it.
For a long time.
We sat kind of a little ways uptowards the front and I just
continued to sit in the same pewand felt like everyone was
looking at me.
I felt like the eyes were allbehind me looking, but again, I
(22:35):
felt like I just need to keepdoing this until it gets better.
The first few weeks, I made abeeline out.
I didn't want to talk toanybody, and I think that's one
of those things that is okay tolet widows do.
Don't feel like I need to quit,catch up and talk to her.
She's making a beeline out.
(22:55):
It's because she really doesn'twant to talk.
I did think too, though, ifthere's somebody who's not
making a beeline out and it'show are you doing?
What is your hardest thing forthis week?
But I'll say how was worshipfor you today, because there
were many times where the sermonor the hymns were a blessing to
(23:16):
me, even though it was thewaterworks, but it was what I
needed to hear in that moment.
That would have been somethingwe could talk about.
I don't have to say how Ipersonally am doing, but what
just be my experience just nowin worship.
And again I was blessed.
The same friend who has come tosit with me.
(23:36):
Her husband is a deacon in ourchurch and in God's providence
we would sit in the same pew.
And this guy had a sixth senseabout if I was crying.
I mean, the tears would justroll but I'd try not to even
wipe them because I didn't wantanybody to see.
But he knew, and you know,halfway through it'd just be a
(23:58):
hand on my back, that's all.
But it was very powerful.
And he's the same deacon who,for you, you know and that was
that, was Dave's job he wassupposed to take care of me at
public events like that and hejust saw that and did it for me
(24:28):
and that just made my day.
So even those little thingsstanding next to him and hearing
his male voice sing it wouldmake me cry.
But it was also comfortingbecause I didn't have that in my
life anymore.
I didn't have a male voice inthe house anymore.
So it's little things that youwouldn't think of that can kind
(24:49):
of trigger both ways.
So over time with those littlebits of encouragement,
acknowledgement of it withoutyou know.
We don't have to talk about it,we can just acknowledge and
honestly, it's going on sixyears.
I now sit in front of them andwe had a song on Sunday.
(25:09):
That was tough and towards theend he just put his hand on my
shoulder.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
That's good.
I don't mean in any of thesequestions to imply that any of
this is not present tense.
I realize all of this is stillgoing on.
Do you have any encouragementsor advice that deacons and
sessions can use to help justencourage a widow in the church
to continue to serve and to useher gifts and not to just pull
(25:35):
away?
Speaker 1 (25:40):
pull away.
Yeah, this was probably themost challenging as I looked
over some of these questions,because, again, being
independent and kind of wantingto steer my own ship, I don't
like it if people suggest I dothings I want it to be my idea
to do.
But the challenge is everywidow's different, every
person's different.
So I think, as I said before,just be aware that that's the
(26:02):
challenge too.
I don't know how long, in thefirst several months, first
several years, there is a verydifferent feeling about life and
just doing what you were usedto doing doesn't make you feel
better, acknowledging that ittakes longer than you think for
(26:24):
somebody to feel like they cando the normal things again.
So that doesn't mean don'tsuggest or ask them to do things
, but I would also say, givethem the liberty to say no for a
while.
Because one of the things Ididn't anticipate was the
anxiety.
I was never an anxious person.
I didn't anticipate was theanxiety.
I was never an anxious person.
But here, you know, somethinghappens so unexpected that you
now feel like any project I takeon, what if something goes
(26:47):
wrong?
And in some ways that doesn'tmake sense because they're not
life and death, but it brings onthis anxiety and planning
things for other people and ifit doesn't go well.
So for me at least, I needed awhile before I could kind of
come back in and help and have aresponsibility, that I needed
to be somewhere at a certaintime and talk to people and be
(27:12):
responsible for it, because myanxiety told me something's
going to go wrong.
There's also, especially in thefirst good year or two, there's
really a lack of desire to doanything and you can push
through it sometimes, but othertimes you just can't.
You just got to sit on thecouch and stare.
Yeah, bottom line, I guessencourage but also accept the no
(27:35):
, at least for a little while.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
That's very helpful.
The no, at least for a littlewhile.
If that's okay, that's veryhelpful.
Has this changed how youinteract with others who are
grieving, or maybe had friendsbecome widows since this?
Certainly that's a leadingquestion, because the answer has
to be yes.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Yeah.
Well, again, to make everybodyfeel better, just because you've
gone through it doesn't meanyou suddenly have the right
things to say.
So I think probably what I'velearned is to look and to be
very slow to speak, Because myfriend learned I had a lot to
say when she'd come over.
(28:11):
I think the first year everyFriday night I did 90% of the
talking.
You know, I just needed that.
So I've learned you don't haveto have the right words, you
have to have the patience to letthem start talking and even
then just keep asking morequestions.
Don't give an answer.
Just keep asking questions thathelp flesh out the details,
(28:34):
because that stuff all needs tojust come out.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
Yeah, I think there's also a Christian grace for all
of us to learn of being able tohear the wrong thing said with
the right intentions andappreciate that.
I remember I was a deacon when Iwas single, before I ever met
my wife, and I think, in beingsingle and wanting to be married
to people who say all kinds ofthings to you and learning then
(28:58):
to recognize the good intentionsand good motives, but I think,
as any of us think, towardsgrieving one day, as much as
you're able to prepare yourself,that people aren't going to say
the right things.
A lot of people are going tosay the wrong things who love
you very much.
You can, by grace, appreciatethat We've talked about some
books and now there's thispodcast that will be available,
but do you have any othersuggestions for deacons and
(29:21):
elders and pastors aboutpreparing for caring for a widow
and, I think, as we are hearinghere, not just doing things but
also being able to listen andsupport and encourage?
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Early on.
I think you would probably wantto at least confirm that she
has family support, becausethose first few weeks and months
that's who you gravitatetowards if you have a healthy
family.
And then if you don't and shedidn't manage her finances,
fortunately, in our situation Imanaged our day-to-day finances,
(29:54):
so I was already aware of a lotof that stuff.
But there was a woman in ourchurch whose husband died and
she was terrified.
She knew nothing.
So I think that's probably themost important thing right off
the bat is what do you need helpwith in these immediate days
that you feel you can't handleand you don't have family help?
(30:16):
Because there is a lot to do.
It's unbelievable how muchthere is to do and it's
overwhelming.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
Yeah, even you know, we've at our church helped folks
that didn't really have familyplan funerals, and even that is
so overwhelming and can be socomplicated.
But I think Dave Ramsey, maybe,and some other websites have
basically checklists of what youneed to do in these early days
and you know, getting a willfigured out and all these
(30:43):
different things.
I really encourage a deacon totry to get your hands on that
and, if appropriate, and theperson is willing to go through
that with them and figure outwhat ways you can help with that
.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Well, and I will add, practically speaking, that a
couple of things I learned.
You kind of think, oh, I shouldwrap things up here kind of
quickly because he's gone, butdon't turn off his cell phone
right away, because often whenyou sign into a website you need
that secondary confirmation andthey text you a number and if
you don't have his phone activeyou don't have that.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
That's very good practical advice for this day.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
And don't close accounts right away, because you
may receive a check that'swritten to just him, and I had
an account that had both ournames on it for quite a while.
There was no need to take hisname off.
My name was on it.
So I guess in a sense preparingand it's one of the things that
Dave used to do a financialplanning seminar.
(31:41):
But you know things like peopleshould have accounts in both
your names so that if one passesaway it's not a hassle.
All the titles you own shouldbe in both your names.
Make it as easy for yourself aspossible to not have to deal
with these additional roadblocks.
The only reason I had to doprobate because of our situation
(32:04):
was because Dave had one carand only his name.
Everything else we had jointly,so that makes a lot of
difference.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
Yes, and having a will is huge.
I had to help a widow whosehusband didn't have a will and
can make things very complicated, and we really encourage
families, especially husbands,to do that.
I think that's a prudent thingfor deacons to be involved with
One to start with themselves andmake sure they have things in
order, but also to encouragetheir church to do that.
Dave wrote a booklet for theOPC at some point called If I
(32:34):
Should Die, which I think isstill available.
We can share the link, which isnow available in PDF form, but
that would be wise things fordeacons to go through and think
about for themselves and thenthink about how to encourage
their congregations.
This is something I would loveto hear for deacons listening to
this just generally, how youget the word out about financial
(32:56):
preparedness and especiallythese long-term plannings, but
also just general, you know,helping people have their
affairs in order, something Ipersonally, as a deacon, have
tried to figure out and would bea great topic for the CDM, this
podcast, to explore in thefuture.
But Dave was a great examplefor that, besides this one car
which he let you down on.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
It was now my son's car, so that worked out.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
Is there anything else you'd like to add to help
deacons as they minister to youand to other widows?
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Dave's strength.
One of his strengths he hadmany was he had a real
compassion for people and a lotof patience, things that don't
come naturally to me.
I'm definitely more impatient,more you know.
Why can't they figure that outon their own?
Why do they need your help, etc.
And I remember one time havinga conversation with him.
(33:51):
I don't remember thecircumstances but I remember
what he said.
He said when people aregrieving, you need to give them
a wide berth.
Everybody responds differentlyand, as I have found out, it's a
long, long process.
You know your question abouthelping another widow.
I almost fear that thatsomebody would ask me how it
(34:16):
would be because I would nothave good news.
I remember reading at thebeginning some booklet about
widows and how it said somethingabout it.
Takes some widows like twoyears before they feel like
themselves and I thought twoyears that feel like themselves
and I thought two years thatsounds like forever.
Unfortunately, I'd have to sayit's more like five or five and
a half, like I feel like I kindof just turned the corner a few
(34:39):
months ago of feeling likemyself, like not everything that
happens makes me think thatDave's not here, and that
doesn't mean I don't miss himevery bit as much.
But it's very long, verynonlinear process.
You have good days.
You have days where you thinkyou've turned the corner and
then you're blindsided.
My daughter just said yesterdaythey were on a vacation and she
(35:03):
was not expecting the fact thatbeing on vacation with her
young children reminded her ofbeing on vacation with her
parents, and then she waswatching people have their
grandparents with them and howshe won't have her dad to help
out with that.
So just the knowledge that itchanges a person permanently,
(35:25):
you don't go through somethingterrible and then come out on
the other side the same person.
Hopefully you are closer to Godin a different way.
You know, for me the hardestthat I wrestled with was the
concept that God createdmarriage.
God said it was good.
God said it wasn't good for aman to be alone.
(35:48):
God said and the two became one.
And so for years I wrestledwith you put me in this position
, god.
You made me one with somebody,and now I feel like I've been
ripped in half.
So that's not going to change.
That's going to be the rest ofmy life.
I'm half of what I was.
We were married when we were 20, so we became adults together.
(36:08):
But I've also read grief islove with no place to go.
I mean, the beauty is that youhad somebody you loved so much
that you grieved this much, andthere's an odd comfort in that,
a realization that God gave us agreat blessing, gave me a
beautiful family as a result,and we talk about Him all the
time.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
Yeah, I think this is a particular opportunity for
deacons, especially the deaconswho knew Dave and walked through
this with you at the time, toboth keep the memory alive but
also know the grief when yourface in a lot of ways stops
showing it after some time.
And you probably knew peopleshow up at your church that have
only known you as a widow andit's you know.
(36:48):
They can certainly love you andencourage you but it's not
going to be the same.
But I think the deacons who'vewalked through that with you and
pastors and elders, it's aparticular calling and duty and
also a joy to be in there forthe long haul and know that that
never is just going to go awayentirely.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
As I said at the beginning, I love hearing his
name.
Our pastor preached a sermon onSunday where he referred to an
instance with Dave and, you know, said his name from the pulpit
and it just felt like a balm tomy soul just to hear his name
said and his memory brought back.
So yeah, don't be afraid thattalking about the person will
(37:28):
make the widow sadder.
It actually will make themsadder.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
Yeah, I think that's a great note to end on.
Thank you very much for sharingyour experiences with us, and I
am sure these insights will beuseful to deacons as they seek
to care for the widows in theirown congregations, both those
grieving now and those they'llbe called to walk alongside in
the future.
So thank you all for listeningand thank you, becky, for your
(37:56):
time.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Thanks for joining us .
Go to our websitethereformedeaconorg.
There you will find all ourepisodes, program notes and
other helpful resources, andplease make plans to join us
again for another episode of theReformed Deacon Podcast.
And I remember one time having a conversation with
him.
I don't remember thecircumstances, but I remember
what he said.
He said when people aregrieving, you need to give them
a wide berth.
Everybody responds differentlyand, as I have found out, it's a
long, long process.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Welcome to the Reformed Deacon, a casual
conversation with topicsspecifically designed to help
local Reformed deacons.
There are nearly a thousanddeacons in the OPC alone, so
let's take this opportunity tolearn from and encourage one
another.
We're so glad you could join us.
Let's jump into our nextepisode.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Hello, my name is Tim Hopper.
I'm a deacon at Shiloh OPC inRaleigh, north Carolina, and a
member of the Committee onDiaconal Ministries.
Today on the podcast, we'retalking about an aspect that's
close to the heart of diaconalwork caring for widows.
Scripture is clear God's peopleare to look after the widow.
To help us explore this topic,I'm joined by Becky Haney, a
(00:57):
member of New Hope OPC inBridgeton, new Jersey.
Becky's husband, some may know,dave Haney, served as the
director of finance for the OPCfor nearly 36 years before his
sudden passing in August of 2019.
Dave was known and loved bypastors, elders, deacons and
church members across thedenomination for his wisdom,
discernment and deep care ofothers.
(01:18):
He was also a valued member ofthe Committee on Diaconal
Ministries, where he played akey role in establishing the now
very active OPC DisasterResponse, a ministry that has
brought help and hope in Christto many.
In the wake of disaster, daveand Becky have three adult
children and eight grandchildren.
Becky has graciously agreed toshare some of her personal
(01:39):
experience since Dave's passingto give deacons, pastors, elders
and church members a betterunderstanding as they come
alongside widows with compassionand care.
While every widow's experienceis unique, we thought it would
be helpful to begin with onewidow's perspective and plan to
explore this topic in furtherepisodes.
Becky, thank you for joining ustoday.
Would you mind starting bytelling us a bit about your
(02:00):
family and your late husband,dave?
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Sure, and first off, I love to hear his name.
That's the first thing I cantell you that any widow is going
to want to hear is theirhusband's name, as many times as
you want to say it.
As you mentioned, Dave workedfor the Orthodox Presbyterian
Church and one of his hats thathe wore was he managed the loan
fund which helps churches eitherbuy a building, renovate a
(02:25):
building.
So he traveled a lot.
For that he had to make sitevisits, and on this particular
occasion he was in New Berlin,Wisconsin.
They were working on a I thinkit was a renovation to their
property, and so he was outthere for the weekend.
He had met with them onSaturday night and he was
supposed to also then be atchurch with them on Sunday
morning, and he had gone to thehotel fitness center in the
(02:53):
morning and, apparently in theprocess of working out, had a
massive heart attack.
We don't know how long he wasdown, but it became clear that
his brain had been not receivingoxygen for a long time, so he
was transported to a hospital inWisconsin.
I was prepping at home to go tochurch and I got a call First.
The phone rang.
I didn't recognize the numberand so I didn't answer it.
But then it rang again and itseemed odd on a Sunday morning
(03:13):
and it was the hospital callingme.
So I was quickly on a plane, Iwas getting in touch with my
kids and they also all got onplanes to come, because we were
told he was very ill.
They didn't really specify, sowe were all there together and
after several days it becameclear that he had no brain
activity and so we had to removethe ventilator.
So Friday he died in theevening.
(03:37):
And in the midst of all of thiswe had a couple of other side
notes.
My oldest daughter, Lauren, waspregnant and due with a baby in
a couple of weeks.
She had decided to make thetrip because she was coming to a
hospital and, in the Lord'sProvidence, the trauma caused
her labor to come on.
So she had her fourth baby twodays before her dad died in the
(03:58):
same hospital.
So that added to thedisorientation.
And then, several weeks later,as we were prepping for the
service for Dave back on theEast Coast, my father had a
brain bleed and he was in thehospital a couple of days before
he passed away.
I could not go to be with himbecause we were shortly having
Dave's memorial service.
(04:19):
So in a word, it was anightmare and very disorienting.
Dave was only 56.
He had no history of heartdisease in the family.
But another plug for deaconsjust as men, take care of your
health, get yourself checked out.
I know you guys don't like togo to the doctor, but go and get
checkups, but anyway, yes itwas.
I think my friend heard me manytimes say you know it used to
(04:42):
be I'd wake up from a nightmare.
Now I wake up to the nightmare.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Yeah, that's so hard.
Were there particular things orpeople or way people interacted
with you in the early days thatwere particularly helpful or
comfort to you?
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Well, since we were all in Wisconsin, we flew back
to California, where all my kidslived at the time, and we
actually even buried Dave inCalifornia because we had been
planning to move there.
So, of course, being alltogether was crucial.
But in addition to that, evenwhile we were in Wisconsin, the
(05:18):
people at home were in touchwith me.
I know Dave's got a car at theairport.
You drove.
You know it was Sunday morning.
I couldn't get a ride to theairport, so I just drove myself
and parked People just give usthe information to get your cars
.
And then when I came home,friends had straightened up the
house and filled therefrigerator with groceries and
flowers and I'm bringing youdinner tomorrow.
(05:39):
And you know, they just did it.
They didn't ask, they just didit.
I wouldn't have been able tosay what I needed.
I was in such a fog and my kidshad the same thing.
They had somebody come to pickus up at the airport and he said
I feel like I'm coming to pickup soldiers coming back from a
war and it's like, yeah, you hitthe nail on the head.
That's how we feel, and thefact that he said that and
(06:01):
acknowledged just the traumathat we went through and they
came again home to meals andhelp.
So those first few days ofpeople just doing and not asking
was incredibly helpful.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
It seems like that's a common theme, probably
especially with widows, of justfeeling paralyzed and not
knowing what to do.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
I also said to my friend often I felt like I was
underwater, like everything wasmuffled, like everything was
moving slowly and heartbreak isreal.
Your heart hurts, you feelnauseous, you can't imagine that
you need to get up every daystill.
So you do need people to justdo and not ask, the first few
(06:43):
days at least.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
That's helpful If you're able to share any things
that were not helpful thathappened that you would
encourage folks not to do.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Yeah, this is challenging because I wouldn't
say don't do this.
But this surprised me howdifficult it was to receive
sympathy cards, because I was insuch disbelief that I was in
this position to receive them.
I had spent years buying cardsfor other people and then I know
(07:13):
people meant well, but theywould say things like praise the
Lord, that he's in heaven, orgive me a scripture verse.
And again I wouldn't say don'tdo that.
But I will tell you for me Ilooked at those very casually
and set them aside, and itwasn't until a few months later
that I really could read themand get the comfort from them.
So in some ways I would saydon't feel like you need to find
(07:36):
words to put in the card, justsay I'm so, so sorry, and that's
all we really need to know.
In those first few days.
It's almost not comforting orfor me it wasn't to have some of
those things said to me, and soit almost made it worse For me
(08:07):
too.
I think emails were good wherepeople had a specific thing they
wanted to say a memory of Daveor something like that.
That was really helpful.
But, like I said, I wouldn'ttell people not to send cards
because then I think you'd alsofeel like nobody's thinking of
you.
But just know that you don'thave to come up with words.
You just have to say we'rethinking of you or I'm so sorry.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
I think a corollary to that is to remember that the
grieving goes on.
Once the funeral's done and theflowers stop showing up and the
visitors stop coming, thegrieving continues.
And to be thinking out intothat longer term.
What's it like four months fromnow when people aren't sending
cards?
Then how can you be anencouragement?
Speaker 1 (08:50):
I'll tell you, though .
The amazing thing is, we haveone woman in our church.
She's known for sending cards.
She sent me a card every weekfor, I think, two months, and
that was really something.
So, yeah, mixed message there,but I know I've always had a
challenge of what do I say inthe card?
Just, we're so sorry.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Were there any particularly notable maybe not
right in the early days, but asyour grieving continued any
particularly notable books orsermons or conversations that
stick out to you?
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Yeah, again, I had a lot of people even send me some
books that had been helpful tothem and I couldn't open them.
I just couldn't believe thiswas my life.
But a couple months later I hadbeen recommended a book by
Jerry Stitzer called A GraceDisguised, and it was about a
man who had lost his mother, hiswife and a young daughter in an
(09:43):
accident.
Lost his mother, his wife and ayoung daughter in an accident,
and I suddenly discovered howdesperately I wanted to hear the
words of somebody whounderstood what I was going
through.
And so that book was a reallifeline and also kind of like
it pointed me to what was next,what I needed to do.
Next I needed to find peoplewho were experiencing what I was
.
So I also found a woman whosehusband had died in a hiking
(10:08):
accident the month before Dave.
So we were literally exactly atthe same point, and she wrote a
book called Beyond the Darkness, which was probably my second
most helpful book in thosemoments.
And then I've always loved CSLewis, we always loved CS Lewis,
but it was fascinating to readhis book A Grief Observed and to
find I had something in commonwith this highly intelligent
(10:31):
intellectual.
We went through the sameemotion of just floundering and
we can't believe what our lifehas become.
And then there was a lot ofpraise music.
That was incredibly helpful.
I think that's different foreverybody.
I know my mother-in-law.
When she lost her husband,hymns were such a comfort to her
, but there's no question thatbooks and sermons.
(10:54):
There was a church in Michigandoing a series on Job and so I
was able, with the beauty of theinternet, to listen to their
sermons while I would go onwalks.
There's a lot out there if youlook for it.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
That's very good.
I know you had maybe even otherbook recommendations, but one
that we've recently talked aboutin the CDM is Nancy Guthrie's
book what Grieving People WishPeople Knew, or something to
that effect.
Is that one you've read?
Speaker 1 (11:17):
I have read a lot of Nancy Guthrie.
I haven't read that one.
I do have a devotional I'mcurrently using called Book of
Hope, which is excellent.
And then I forgot to mentionone of the women in the church
had given me a Spurgeons BesidesStill Waters devotional.
It was updated by Roy Clark butagain, yeah, you need to hear
(11:37):
God's truth all day long.
So I had devotions for themorning, devotions at night and
all about grief because that wasI was all consumed by it.
So everything I read wasrelative to that.
But yes, nancy Guthrie is anexcellent author.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Are you able to talk about some of the harder parts
of widowhood that people mightnot see or understand if they
haven't experienced this type ofloss?
Speaker 1 (12:00):
As I said about the cards, I think we all feel badly
that we don't know what to sayto somebody, but the truth is
there is nothing to be said inthe first few weeks other than
I'm so sorry.
Nothing can change it, nothingcan make it feel better, nothing
can make it make sense whenyou're a Christian and you have
you know the foundation of yourfaith and you have you know the
(12:21):
foundation of your faith.
I will say, though, that one ofthe hardest questions that
people would ask would be howare you doing no-transcript?
So you're not going to alwayssay I'm doing awful, so you find
a way to say well, I'm okay, oryou know day by day, and it was
(12:44):
hard to see people almost havea little bit of a look of relief
in their eyes Like it's yeah,you're doing better.
I'm glad to hear that that madeit worse, because it was not
true, I was not doing better atall.
So the interaction with peoplewas very, very difficult for a
very long time, because it justseems, again, surreal that life
(13:07):
still goes on when your worldhas imploded.
The challenge I have, too, isthat that goes on for years, and
that's something that nobodycan really do anything about.
You just have to gradually getused to the fact that when you
go into a public situationyou're going to be around
couples all the time and again,that's not anything that people
can change.
(13:28):
I did not experience the well.
Once you're not a coupleanymore, your couple friends
drop you.
I didn't have that.
But again I had a couple timeswhere I had a few people over
and it just didn't feel rightbecause Dave wasn't there to
help me host or whatever.
So I decided I'm not going todo that.
For a long time I tried to kindof just keep doing the same
(13:49):
things I was used to doing, butthen that almost underlined more
that he was gone.
And oddly enough, in God'sprovidence, covid came about six
to seven months after he passedaway.
And that was the best thing forme because I could access all
these online resources but nothave to speak to people in
(14:10):
person.
So I think a lot of people willsay weren't you just so lonely?
But often I was lonelier withpeople because it was a constant
reminder of what I didn't haveanymore.
I know other people feeldifferently.
I know some people are lonelyand just.
My father had a terrible timewithout my mother, and he wanted
(14:33):
to be around people and wantedto go to a grief support group,
you know, but that wasn't for me.
I was more about the books thatI could read on my own.
The lifeline for me, though, wasI had one friend who, after
several months, we were all outfor breakfast and I had kind of
crumbled at breakfast and I knewthey all felt badly for me, but
they didn't know what to do.
(14:54):
But we ended up all going home,and about 20 minutes later I
got a knock at the door andshe's standing at the door and
she said I just couldn't let yougo home, and she sat in my
living room like Job.
She just sat because I and shelistened, and she's been doing
it ever since.
We get together every weekAgain.
Covid was a fascinating thingfor me, because it opened up a
(15:17):
very different world where Icould get together with one
person, and she walked this walkand listened, and I would never
have known the relationship Ihave with her if I hadn't lost
Dave.
So I'm sure that's not why Ilost Dave, but it's a silver
lining.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Sure, absolutely.
You're thinking particularlydeacons to widows, think men
maybe often are going to, ifthey're thinking about it, maybe
be even more afraid to say thewrong thing, which can lead to
an opposite and probably worseproblem of just avoiding the
person when you don't know whatto say.
What counsel would you offer toa deacon in particular who
feels unsure what to say?
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Yeah, well, again, I followed a lot of different
people online and read books andso forth and I, in God's
providence, just read this lastweek.
A guy was saying it is so hardwhen people say, how are you
doing?
And I think that has to be theopener, because it's almost like
saying, hi, how are you?
In general, that's just what wedo to start a conversation with
(16:15):
people.
But I think the answer is thefollow-up question, especially
for a deacon, can be what wasthe hardest thing you had to
deal with this week, becauseyou've now acknowledged that
their life is hard, so we cantell you what was hard and we
don't have to feel like we're adowner because you asked the
(16:37):
question.
So I thought that was brilliantbecause it's true, the only
question you really have is howare you doing?
And so by following up that wayand then, as the people did when
Dave first died, after a coupleof months, occasionally I would
just get somebody who wascoming over anyway for something
.
He'd bring his toolbox and saywhat do you need fixed?
(16:59):
You know?
So I had a front door thatwasn't latching right, just a
couple of things.
They're not a big deal, but thefact that I didn't have to ask,
I didn't have to call somebody,he just came prepared to do it.
I had that happen threeseparate times and it was just.
It was beautiful to watchbecause I didn't feel like it
(17:21):
was inconveniencing him.
He came and he just cameprepared.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
That's great, I know often the experience can be just
being so overwhelmed with howmany things need to be figured
out and all the checklists justkeep growing and growing of what
does life look like at thispoint and how are you figuring
out life insurance and whatbills do we pay that my husband
used to take care of and allthese things.
And helping keep things offthat list I know can be such an
(17:47):
encouragement.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
Yeah, which actually brings me to a follow-up, which
is it can be too open-ended tosay let me know if I can help,
to where it just becomes.
You don't even know where tostart.
I think this is true not justwith widows, but I think young
parents hear this often Let meknow how I can help.
We're like, well, the list isvery long, but what can you
actually ask for?
Are there better ways to try tofind out besides just showing
(18:12):
up and doing something?
Are there other ways to try?
to find out how to help.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Well, that was another thing that I kind of
learned through the process isI'm already naturally
independent and don't like toask for help.
And then Dave was an elder, soI also had an understanding of
how often church officers haveto be out of the home doing
things for other people.
So I really really didn't liketo ask for help.
But it got me thinking what ifdeacons and I don't know how you
(18:39):
would do this graciously, buthad some sort of a checklist
that just said do you need helpwith any of these things?
So that and I can even help youthink of those?
Do you need help movingsomething heavy?
Do you need help hangingsomething on the wall?
Do you need help finding atrustworthy repairman?
Like that's hard too.
(19:05):
If your husband handled all therepair work and you have an
appliance, go.
Do you know who to call?
Do you need help with yourtaxes or finances?
Do you need somewhere to go ona holiday?
Do you need a ride to theairport?
Like I got about 15 things on alist here.
I feel like for me that wouldhave been really neat to receive
this piece of paper that saidlet us know, here's things we
can do for you.
Let us know and then we'll giveyou a call.
(19:28):
That way, in some ways, I think, it gives the deacons a chance
to figure out who might beavailable.
It gives the widow the chanceto say, oh yeah, I do.
I would love for somebody tohang that for me.
And again, it was sochallenging for me to ask for
help.
But if it was proactive, thatway, with a specific list, not
(19:49):
what can we do, but here aresome ideas.
Do you need any of these things?
We can add that to the booklist at the end if we want.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
I think that would be great to share.
That's a very good idea, if wewant.
I think that would be great toshare.
That's a very good idea.
What was the experience ofhandling such a terrible grief
with adult children?
That's going to make this adifferent circumstance than
someone who has children at homeor various things.
How was walking alongside themthrough this and what did you
learn through that?
Speaker 1 (20:13):
I would have to say in retrospect I'm really
disappointed with myself, butalso I felt I had nothing to
give my adult children.
I was so blindsided and sooverwhelmed.
And my kids are very capablekids.
As we mentioned, my onedaughter had her fourth child in
the hospital.
She had three other children athome and she had an infant and
(20:37):
we were all there together a lot.
God was so gracious to usbecause I had no strength for my
children and I don't know howwomen who have to raise young
children do it, but they hadgood.
I just remember family comingand bringing food and then just
(21:01):
sitting.
There was nothing to say, Justcame and sat.
And how do people do thiswithout a Christian community?
The church is a beautiful,beautiful thing in this.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
Yes, amen, it's hard to fathom.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
It's way worse than you think.
You think it's going to beterrible and it's so far beyond
that it's in some waysindescribable.
And a lot of that is becauselife goes on.
I read a quote one time.
It's like I'm already deadinside and yet I'm in the worst
kind of pain.
All of those things at once,and you still need to take care
of your house and buy groceriesand pay bills, and it doesn't
(21:39):
seem like there's any reason to.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
I've heard multiple times and this may or may not
have been your experience, butthat Sundays for Christians
who've lost a spouse or a childcan be one of the hardest days.
Even though you then get to bewith your Christian family and
be under the means of grace,among other things, you are
there without your husband, whois an elder and involved in that
church.
(22:02):
What are the challenges and theblessings there, and are there
particular ways the deacons can,or maybe even the deacon's wife
and family, support you inbeing at church on a Sunday?
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Yeah, I went back to church right away because it
just didn't seem to make senseto sit at home.
I'd been at home all weekanyway, but I will say I did not
enjoy it.
For a long time.
We sat kind of a little ways uptowards the front and I just
continued to sit in the same pewand felt like everyone was
looking at me.
I felt like the eyes were allbehind me looking, but again, I
(22:35):
felt like I just need to keepdoing this until it gets better.
The first few weeks, I made abeeline out.
I didn't want to talk toanybody, and I think that's one
of those things that is okay tolet widows do.
Don't feel like I need to quit,catch up and talk to her.
She's making a beeline out.
(22:55):
It's because she really doesn'twant to talk.
I did think too, though, ifthere's somebody who's not
making a beeline out and it'show are you doing?
What is your hardest thing forthis week?
But I'll say how was worshipfor you today, because there
were many times where the sermonor the hymns were a blessing to
(23:16):
me, even though it was thewaterworks, but it was what I
needed to hear in that moment.
That would have been somethingwe could talk about.
I don't have to say how Ipersonally am doing, but what
just be my experience just nowin worship.
And again I was blessed.
The same friend who has come tosit with me.
(23:36):
Her husband is a deacon in ourchurch and in God's providence
we would sit in the same pew.
And this guy had a sixth senseabout if I was crying.
I mean, the tears would justroll but I'd try not to even
wipe them because I didn't wantanybody to see.
But he knew, and you know,halfway through it'd just be a
(23:58):
hand on my back, that's all.
But it was very powerful.
And he's the same deacon who,for you, you know and that was
that, was Dave's job he wassupposed to take care of me at
public events like that and hejust saw that and did it for me
(24:28):
and that just made my day.
So even those little thingsstanding next to him and hearing
his male voice sing it wouldmake me cry.
But it was also comfortingbecause I didn't have that in my
life anymore.
I didn't have a male voice inthe house anymore.
So it's little things that youwouldn't think of that can kind
(24:49):
of trigger both ways.
So over time with those littlebits of encouragement,
acknowledgement of it withoutyou know.
We don't have to talk about it,we can just acknowledge and
honestly, it's going on sixyears.
I now sit in front of them andwe had a song on Sunday.
(25:09):
That was tough and towards theend he just put his hand on my
shoulder.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
That's good.
I don't mean in any of thesequestions to imply that any of
this is not present tense.
I realize all of this is stillgoing on.
Do you have any encouragementsor advice that deacons and
sessions can use to help justencourage a widow in the church
to continue to serve and to useher gifts and not to just pull
(25:35):
away?
Speaker 1 (25:40):
pull away.
Yeah, this was probably themost challenging as I looked
over some of these questions,because, again, being
independent and kind of wantingto steer my own ship, I don't
like it if people suggest I dothings I want it to be my idea
to do.
But the challenge is everywidow's different, every
person's different.
So I think, as I said before,just be aware that that's the
(26:02):
challenge too.
I don't know how long, in thefirst several months, first
several years, there is a verydifferent feeling about life and
just doing what you were usedto doing doesn't make you feel
better, acknowledging that ittakes longer than you think for
(26:24):
somebody to feel like they cando the normal things again.
So that doesn't mean don'tsuggest or ask them to do things
, but I would also say, givethem the liberty to say no for a
while.
Because one of the things Ididn't anticipate was the
anxiety.
I was never an anxious person.
I didn't anticipate was theanxiety.
I was never an anxious person.
But here, you know, somethinghappens so unexpected that you
now feel like any project I takeon, what if something goes
(26:47):
wrong?
And in some ways that doesn'tmake sense because they're not
life and death, but it brings onthis anxiety and planning
things for other people and ifit doesn't go well.
So for me at least, I needed awhile before I could kind of
come back in and help and have aresponsibility, that I needed
to be somewhere at a certaintime and talk to people and be
(27:12):
responsible for it, because myanxiety told me something's
going to go wrong.
There's also, especially in thefirst good year or two, there's
really a lack of desire to doanything and you can push
through it sometimes, but othertimes you just can't.
You just got to sit on thecouch and stare.
Yeah, bottom line, I guessencourage but also accept the no
(27:35):
, at least for a little while.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
That's very helpful.
The no, at least for a littlewhile.
If that's okay, that's veryhelpful.
Has this changed how youinteract with others who are
grieving, or maybe had friendsbecome widows since this?
Certainly that's a leadingquestion, because the answer has
to be yes.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Yeah.
Well, again, to make everybodyfeel better, just because you've
gone through it doesn't meanyou suddenly have the right
things to say.
So I think probably what I'velearned is to look and to be
very slow to speak, Because myfriend learned I had a lot to
say when she'd come over.
(28:11):
I think the first year everyFriday night I did 90% of the
talking.
You know, I just needed that.
So I've learned you don't haveto have the right words, you
have to have the patience to letthem start talking and even
then just keep asking morequestions.
Don't give an answer.
Just keep asking questions thathelp flesh out the details,
(28:34):
because that stuff all needs tojust come out.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
Yeah, I think there's also a Christian grace for all
of us to learn of being able tohear the wrong thing said with
the right intentions andappreciate that.
I remember I was a deacon when Iwas single, before I ever met
my wife, and I think, in beingsingle and wanting to be married
to people who say all kinds ofthings to you and learning then
(28:58):
to recognize the good intentionsand good motives, but I think,
as any of us think, towardsgrieving one day, as much as
you're able to prepare yourself,that people aren't going to say
the right things.
A lot of people are going tosay the wrong things who love
you very much.
You can, by grace, appreciatethat We've talked about some
books and now there's thispodcast that will be available,
but do you have any othersuggestions for deacons and
(29:21):
elders and pastors aboutpreparing for caring for a widow
and, I think, as we are hearinghere, not just doing things but
also being able to listen andsupport and encourage?
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Early on.
I think you would probably wantto at least confirm that she
has family support, becausethose first few weeks and months
that's who you gravitatetowards if you have a healthy
family.
And then if you don't and shedidn't manage her finances,
fortunately, in our situation Imanaged our day-to-day finances,
(29:54):
so I was already aware of a lotof that stuff.
But there was a woman in ourchurch whose husband died and
she was terrified.
She knew nothing.
So I think that's probably themost important thing right off
the bat is what do you need helpwith in these immediate days
that you feel you can't handleand you don't have family help?
(30:16):
Because there is a lot to do.
It's unbelievable how muchthere is to do and it's
overwhelming.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
Yeah, even you know, we've at our church helped folks
that didn't really have familyplan funerals, and even that is
so overwhelming and can be socomplicated.
But I think Dave Ramsey, maybe,and some other websites have
basically checklists of what youneed to do in these early days
and you know, getting a willfigured out and all these
(30:43):
different things.
I really encourage a deacon totry to get your hands on that
and, if appropriate, and theperson is willing to go through
that with them and figure outwhat ways you can help with that
.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Well, and I will add, practically speaking, that a
couple of things I learned.
You kind of think, oh, I shouldwrap things up here kind of
quickly because he's gone, butdon't turn off his cell phone
right away, because often whenyou sign into a website you need
that secondary confirmation andthey text you a number and if
you don't have his phone activeyou don't have that.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
That's very good practical advice for this day.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
And don't close accounts right away, because you
may receive a check that'swritten to just him, and I had
an account that had both ournames on it for quite a while.
There was no need to take hisname off.
My name was on it.
So I guess in a sense preparingand it's one of the things that
Dave used to do a financialplanning seminar.
(31:41):
But you know things like peopleshould have accounts in both
your names so that if one passesaway it's not a hassle.
All the titles you own shouldbe in both your names.
Make it as easy for yourself aspossible to not have to deal
with these additional roadblocks.
The only reason I had to doprobate because of our situation
(32:04):
was because Dave had one carand only his name.
Everything else we had jointly,so that makes a lot of
difference.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
Yes, and having a will is huge.
I had to help a widow whosehusband didn't have a will and
can make things very complicated, and we really encourage
families, especially husbands,to do that.
I think that's a prudent thingfor deacons to be involved with
One to start with themselves andmake sure they have things in
order, but also to encouragetheir church to do that.
Dave wrote a booklet for theOPC at some point called If I
(32:34):
Should Die, which I think isstill available.
We can share the link, which isnow available in PDF form, but
that would be wise things fordeacons to go through and think
about for themselves and thenthink about how to encourage
their congregations.
This is something I would loveto hear for deacons listening to
this just generally, how youget the word out about financial
(32:56):
preparedness and especiallythese long-term plannings, but
also just general, you know,helping people have their
affairs in order, something Ipersonally, as a deacon, have
tried to figure out and would bea great topic for the CDM, this
podcast, to explore in thefuture.
But Dave was a great examplefor that, besides this one car
which he let you down on.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
It was now my son's car, so that worked out.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
Is there anything else you'd like to add to help
deacons as they minister to youand to other widows?
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Dave's strength.
One of his strengths he hadmany was he had a real
compassion for people and a lotof patience, things that don't
come naturally to me.
I'm definitely more impatient,more you know.
Why can't they figure that outon their own?
Why do they need your help, etc.
And I remember one time havinga conversation with him.
(33:51):
I don't remember thecircumstances but I remember
what he said.
He said when people aregrieving, you need to give them
a wide berth.
Everybody responds differentlyand, as I have found out, it's a
long, long process.
You know your question abouthelping another widow.
I almost fear that thatsomebody would ask me how it
(34:16):
would be because I would nothave good news.
I remember reading at thebeginning some booklet about
widows and how it said somethingabout it.
Takes some widows like twoyears before they feel like
themselves and I thought twoyears that feel like themselves
and I thought two years thatsounds like forever.
Unfortunately, I'd have to sayit's more like five or five and
a half, like I feel like I kindof just turned the corner a few
(34:39):
months ago of feeling likemyself, like not everything that
happens makes me think thatDave's not here, and that
doesn't mean I don't miss himevery bit as much.
But it's very long, verynonlinear process.
You have good days.
You have days where you thinkyou've turned the corner and
then you're blindsided.
My daughter just said yesterdaythey were on a vacation and she
(35:03):
was not expecting the fact thatbeing on vacation with her
young children reminded her ofbeing on vacation with her
parents, and then she waswatching people have their
grandparents with them and howshe won't have her dad to help
out with that.
So just the knowledge that itchanges a person permanently,
(35:25):
you don't go through somethingterrible and then come out on
the other side the same person.
Hopefully you are closer to Godin a different way.
You know, for me the hardestthat I wrestled with was the
concept that God createdmarriage.
God said it was good.
God said it wasn't good for aman to be alone.
(35:48):
God said and the two became one.
And so for years I wrestledwith you put me in this position
, god.
You made me one with somebody,and now I feel like I've been
ripped in half.
So that's not going to change.
That's going to be the rest ofmy life.
I'm half of what I was.
We were married when we were 20, so we became adults together.
(36:08):
But I've also read grief islove with no place to go.
I mean, the beauty is that youhad somebody you loved so much
that you grieved this much, andthere's an odd comfort in that,
a realization that God gave us agreat blessing, gave me a
beautiful family as a result,and we talk about Him all the
time.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
Yeah, I think this is a particular opportunity for
deacons, especially the deaconswho knew Dave and walked through
this with you at the time, toboth keep the memory alive but
also know the grief when yourface in a lot of ways stops
showing it after some time.
And you probably knew peopleshow up at your church that have
only known you as a widow andit's you know.
(36:48):
They can certainly love you andencourage you but it's not
going to be the same.
But I think the deacons who'vewalked through that with you and
pastors and elders, it's aparticular calling and duty and
also a joy to be in there forthe long haul and know that that
never is just going to go awayentirely.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
As I said at the beginning, I love hearing his
name.
Our pastor preached a sermon onSunday where he referred to an
instance with Dave and, you know, said his name from the pulpit
and it just felt like a balm tomy soul just to hear his name
said and his memory brought back.
So yeah, don't be afraid thattalking about the person will
(37:28):
make the widow sadder.
It actually will make themsadder.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
Yeah, I think that's a great note to end on.
Thank you very much for sharingyour experiences with us, and I
am sure these insights will beuseful to deacons as they seek
to care for the widows in theirown congregations, both those
grieving now and those they'llbe called to walk alongside in
the future.
So thank you all for listeningand thank you, becky, for your
(37:56):
time.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Thanks for joining us .
Go to our websitethereformedeaconorg.
There you will find all ourepisodes, program notes and
other helpful resources, andplease make plans to join us
again for another episode of theReformed Deacon Podcast.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.